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RPTSMERCHANT

DCMNMAYER

COMMITTEEONOVERSIGHTAND

GOVERNMENTREFORM,

U.S.HOUSEOFREPRESENTATIVES,

WASHINGTON,D.C.

INTERVIEWOF:VINCENTKENNEDYMcMAHON

Friday,December14,2007

Washington,D.C.

Theinterviewintheabovematterwasheldat2157Rayburn

Loungecommencingat1:50p.m.
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Appearances:

ForCOMMITTEEONOVERSIGHTANDGOVERNMENTREFORM:

DAVIDJ.LEVISS,SENIORINVESTIGATIVECOUNSEL

BRIANA.COHEN,SENIORINVESTIGATOR

SAMBUFFONE,PROFESSIONALSTAFF

SARAHDESPRES,SENIORCOUNSEL

BENJAMINCHANCE,MINORITYPROFESSIONALSTAFF

JENNIFERSAFAVIAN,MINORITYPROFESSIONALSTAFF

ForMR.McMAHON:

JERRYS.McDEVITT,ESQ.

GEORGEW.KOCH,ESQ.

MICHAELJ.O'NEIL,ESQ.

K&LGATES

1601KStreetNW

Washington,DC200061600
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Mr.Leviss.Welcome.

ThisisatranscribedinterviewofMr.VinceMcMahonbythe

CommitteeonOversightandGovernmentReform.Thechairmanofthe

committeesoughtthistranscribedinterviewaspartofthe

committee'sinvestigationintoallegationsregardingtheabuseof

steroidsandillegaldrugsinprofessionalwrestling.

Wouldthewitnesspleasestateyourfullnamefortherecord.

Mr.McMahon.VincentKennedyMcMahon.

Mr.Leviss.BehalfoftheCommitteeonOversightand

GovernmentReform,IwelcomeyouandIthankyouforjoiningus

today.

IamDavidLeviss.IamaSeniorInvestigativeCounselwith

themajoritystaffofthecommittee.Therearemanyofusherein

theroom,soI'mgoingtoaskeverybodytogoaroundandintroduce

themselvesandgivetheiraffiliationsotospeak.

Mr.Cohen.MynameisaBrianCohen,andIamaSenior

Investigatorwiththemajoritystaffofthecommittee.

Mr.Buffone.SamBuffoneforthemajoritystaffofthe

committee.

Ms.Despres.SarahDespres,SeniorHouseCounselwiththe

majoritystaff.

Mr.Chance.BenjaminChance,Republicanstaff.

Ms.Safavian.JenniferSafavian,Republicanstaff.
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Mr.McMahon.WhyisitRepublicansaresmilingandthe

Democratsaren't.

Mr.Cohen.Youwouldthinkitwouldbetheopposite,

wouldn'tyou?

Mr.McMahon.Theyseemveryfriendlydownhere.

Mr.Leviss.Hopefully,we'reallfriendlyhere.I'lltryto

smilemore.

You'rerepresentedbycounseltoday;isthatright?

Mr.McMahon.Yes,Iam.

Mr.Leviss.Isthisthethreegentlementoyourleft?

Mr.McMahon.Yes.

Mr.Leviss.Ifyougentlemenwouldn'tmindintroducing

yourselvesagainfortherecord.

Mr.Koch.GeorgeKoch,K&LGates.

Mr.O'Neil.MikeO'Neil,K&LGates.

Mr.McDevitt.JerryMcDevitt,samefirm.

Mr.Leviss.Great.Thankyou.

I'mgoingtogooversomegroundrulesthatwehaveforthese

interviews.Weinthemajoritywillbeginaskingquestions.Our

colleaguesontheRepublicanstaffwillhavetheopportunityto

askquestionsaswell.

Wetendtomoveinsortofroughtopicareas.Sometimeswe

jumparoundalittlebit,ifthat'sthewaytheflowofthe

interviewisgoing.Butwe'lltrytobeorderlyaboutit.

Wetendtotakeashortbreakeveryhourorso.Ifyouneed
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totakeabreaksoonerthanthat,pleaseletusknowbecausewe'll

behappytoaccommodateyou.

AnofficialHousereporteristakingdowneverythingwesay,

sothatwecanmakeawrittenrecordofthisinterview.Asa

resultofthat,it'simportantthatyougiveverbal,audible

answerstoeveryquestion.Doyouunderstandthat?

A Yes.

Alsoontherecord,Iwouldliketostateifyouwould

stateagainwhattheintentionofthisis.

Q Sure.Itriedtoattheverybeginning,but

A Iknowyoudid,butIjustwantthatontherecord.

Q No.Absolutely.

Andmypointwas,thechairmanofthecommitteehasinvited

youtocomeforthistranscribedinterviewaspartofacommittee

investigationintoallegationsthatwehavereceivedaboutthe

abuseofsteroidsandillegaldrugsinprofessionalwrestling.

A Thankyou.

Q You'rewelcome.

AsIwassaying,wehaveareporterhere.It'sdifficultto

impossibleforacourtreportertotakedownanaccuraterecordif

wespeakoveroneanother.Soit'simportantthatyouallowmeto

finishaskingaquestionoranyquestionbeforebeginningyour

answer,andI,inturn,willtrytowaituntilyouhavesaidyour

completeanswer.

Andthesameistruewhenattorneysarespeakingoverone
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another,sowe'lltrytoyieldtooneanother.Isthatafair

rule?

Mr.McMahon.I'lldomybest.

Mr.Leviss.Okay.IfIaskyouaquestionthatisunclear

toyouorconfusing,willyouaskmetoclarifyitorexplainit?

Mr.McMahon.Iwilldefinitelydothat.

Mr.McMahon.Good.Iwouldlikethat.

Youare,ofcourse,requiredbylawtotestifytruthfullyto

Congressinansweringyourquestionstoday.Ifyoufailto

testifytruthfully,youcouldbesubjecttocriminalprosecution.

Isthereanyreasonwhyyou'reunabletotestifytruthfully

today?

Mr.McMahon.No.

Mr.Leviss.DoyouunderstandalltherulesthatI'velaid

out?

Mr.McMahon.Yes,Ido.Thankyou.

Mr.Leviss.Areyouoryourattorneysrecordingthissession

todayinanymeans,ataperecordingorinanyothercapacity?

Mr.McMahon.No,notthatI'mawareof.

Mr.McDevitt.Areweallowedto?

Mr.Leviss.No.

Mr.McDevitt.Ididn'tthinkso.

Mr.McMahon.You'reshakingyourhead.Weareallowedto?

Mr.Cohen.No,youarenot.Weareaskingthequestionto

confirmthatyouarenot.
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Mr.Leviss.It'snotsomethingthatwediscussedandIjust

wantedtoclarifythat.

Mr.McDevitt.Whywouldyoueventhinkwewoulddothat?

Mr.Leviss.Ididn'tsuggestthatyouwoulddoit.

Mr.McDevitt.Whatgoodfaithbasiswouldyouevenhaveto

askaquestionlikethat,whetherwe'rerecordingthis?Weknow

it'sagainsttherules.

Mr.Leviss.Youaskedmeifitwasagainsttherules,so

maybeyoudidn'tknow.

Mr.McDevitt.Well,no,Ithoughtitwas.That'swhyI'm

stunnedbyyourquestion.

Mr.Leviss.Ihaveagoodfaithbasistoaskallthe

questionsthatI'maskingheretoday.

Mr.McDevitt.What'syourgoodfaithbasistoaskifwe're

recordingthis?

Mr.Leviss.It'snotsomethingthatwehaddiscussedandI

wantedtoclarifythatyouunderstoodthatit'snotallowable.

Mr.McDevitt.Youdidn'taskanyoftheothertwowitnesses

thatquestion.

Mr.Leviss.You'reright.Anditdidn'toccurtomeuntil

thisafternoonthatIhadn'taskedthem,soIwantedtoclarify

that.

Mr.McMahon.Pleasegoahead.

Ms.Despres.Ifwemay,wehaveaskedotherwitnessesthat

question.
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Mr.McDevitt.Youdidn'taskLinda.Youdidn'task

Stephanie.

Ms.Despres.No.Wehaveaskedotherwitnessesaspartof

thisinvestigationthatquestion.

Mr.Leviss.Mr.McMahon,doyouhaveanyquestionsbeforewe

beginwiththesubstantivepartoftheinterview?

Mr.McMahon.No.

Areyouguysrecordinganyofthis,otherthanthe

stenographeroverhere,intermsoftelevisionorradio?

Mr.Leviss.Ourrecordofitwillbethetranscriptthat

you'llhaveachancetoreview.

Mr.McMahon.JustthoughtIwouldask.

Mr.Cohen.AndperourdiscussionwithJerrybeforehand,

we'venotalertedthemedia.Ourintentionwasthatyouwereable

tocomeinherewithouthavingamediacircus.

Mr.McMahon.Thankyou.

Mr.Cohen.You'rewelcome.

Mr.Leviss.Whydon'tIstartwithsomebackgroundquestions

aboutyourselfandWWE?

EXAMINATION

BYMR.LEVISS

Q Whatisyourcurrentpositionwithinthecompany?

A I'mthechairman.

Dowehavetogothroughthisrigamarole?Whydon'tyoujust

gettothemeatofit?YouknowwhoIam,youknowwhatmy
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positionis.Whydon'twejustgettoit?

Q Well,thereareacouplebackgroundquestionsIhave.

A YouknowwhoIam,whatmypositionisinthecompany.

Ithinkyouguysknowthat.Whydon'twejustgettoit?

Q Okay.I'mhappyto.

A Thankyou.

Q Let'stalkaboutallegationsabouttheuseorabuseof

steroidsandillegaldrugs.I'llhaveanumberofquestionsfor

you.BeforeIgettothemoredetailedquestions,I'minterested

inyourviewsontherisksofsteroids,usingsteroidsorother

performanceenhancingdrugs.

Doyoubelievethatsteroidsorillegaldrugscancause

longtermhealthrisksfortheirusers?

Mr.McDevitt.Iobjecttothat.Youhaveacompound

question,eithersteroidsorillegaldrugs.Couldyouaskone

questionatonetime?

Illegaldrugscoverseverythingfromherointococaineto

whateveryouwanttocallit.Wouldyoubespecificinyour

questionsplease?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Doyoubelievethattheuseofsteroidscancause

longtermhealthrisksforusers?

Mr.McDevitt.Heisnotadoctor.

Ijustwanttosaythis.Heisnotamedicalhere.He'snot

heretotestifyaboutmedicalopinionsoranythinglikethat.
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He'sheretotestifyaboutthesubjectmattershewastoldabout.

Andhisviewsandmedicalopinionsaboutthehealthriskof

steroidsissofarbeyondhiscompetenceasalaymanit'snoteven

afairquestiontobeginwith.

Mr.Leviss.It'saperfectlyfairquestion.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Iunderstandyou'renotaphysician.I'minterestedin

youranswerandyouropiniononwhethertheuseofsteroidscan

causelongtermhealthriskstousers.

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouhaveafoundationthatthislayman

wouldbecapableofrenderingamedicalopiniononthatsubject?

Mr.Leviss.I'mgoingtoaskthequestionandI'mgoingto

expectananswer.

Mr.McDevitt.Youcanaskanyquestionyouwant,butdoyou

haveafoundationforbelievingthislaymancouldrenderamedical

opinionaboutthelongtermeffectsofsteroids?

Mr.Leviss.Ibelievethatthisgentlemanhasextensive

experienceinprofessionalwrestlingandhasfamiliaritywiththis

issue.AndIthinkit'sfairtoaskhislayman'sopinionabout

it,yes.

Mr.McDevitt.Howwouldhehavefamiliarityofthelongterm

effectsofsteroiduse?He'snotadoctor;he'snotaphysician.

Haveyouestablishedanyfoundationthathestudiedthe

subjectinascientificfashionoranythingthatwouldgivea

meaningfulopiniononthesubject?No.
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BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Doyouhaveanopiniononthis?

A I'mnotadoctor.IwouldsuggestifIwantedto

knowlongtermeffectsofanydrug,IthinkthefirstplaceI

wouldgoistheFDA.ThatwouldbethefirstplaceIwouldgo.

And,quitefrankly,Idon'tthinktheFDAtellsanyoneabout

thelongtermeffectsofsteroidusageorabusage.AndIwould

suggesttoyouthatthatmightbesomeplacewhereyourcommittee

andMr.Waxman,sinceyouhaveoversightovertheseareas,might

wanttobegin.

BecausethatwasthefirstbiglieintermsoftheFDA

producing,Ibelieve,thefirststeroidcalledDiablo.AndI

thinkifyougotherenow,ratherthanmespeculateorevenread

aboutspeculationinthenewspaper,whichwe'veallread,Ithink

ifyougobacktotheFDA,Iwouldliketoreadandperhapsyou

wouldliketoreadwhatthepurposesofthesedrugsareand

whatthelongtermeffectsreallyare.

BecauseIthinkeverybodywouldbenefitfromthatthe

FederalDrugAdministration,whichIthinkyouguyshavesome

degreeofoversightover;andwhetherornotthedrugsshouldhave

beenproducedtobeginwith,knowingwhatyouknownowaboutthe

possibilityoflongtermeffectsofsteroids,whetherornotthere

wouldbeareviewbytheFDAastowhetherornotthatdrugshould

continuetobeproducedorwhetherornotthereshouldbereview

intodeterminingwhatarethelongtermeffects,whatarethe
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advantages,whatarethedisadvantages.

Ibelievemostdrugs,prescriptiondrugs,tellyouthat

becausetheFDAtestedthingsofthatnature.Soansweringyour

question,IthinkifIwantedtoknowmore,I'malayman,Idon't

haveanopinionintermsofdoctorsandthatsortofthing;butI

wouldprobablygobacktotheFDA,whichiswhereIsuggestifyou

reallywanttocleanupthismessthatmightbewhereyouwantto

go.

Q Itsoundslikeyou'vebeensomethinkingaboutthis

topic.I'minterestedif,fromalayman'sperspective,youhavea

beliefaboutwhethertherecanbelongtermhealthrisksfromthe

useofsteroids.

A I'mnotadoctor.Idon'tknow.

Q Iunderstand.I'mnotaskingifyouknow;I'maskingif

youhaveanybeliefs.

A I'malayman.Idon'tknow.Iwouldliketoknowthat.

Iwouldlikenoknowwhetherornotthereareanylongterm

effectsand,ifso,whatarethey.Canyoutellme?

Q WhatwouldyoutellWWEtalentwhoaskedyouifthere

werelongtermhealthrisksfromusingsteroids?

A IwouldtellthemtheverysamethingIjusttoldyou.

I'mnotadoctor.Idon'tknowiftherearereallyanylongterm

effectsofsteroidusage.

IguessmaybeIcouldfromalaymanstandpointlookat

professionalbodybuilders.AndagainIdon'tknowofany
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longtermeffects,buttheremightbesome.I'mnotadoctor.

Q Andwhatdoyouconcludefromlookingatlongtermbody

builders?

A Howmanytimesdoyouwantmetoanswerthatquestion?

Ijustsaid,letmerepeat,Idon'tknow.Doyouknow?

Q Idon'tknow.

A You'realaymanjustlikeme.Idon'tknowwhat

longtermeffectsbecausetheFDAhasn'tbotheredtotellmeor

anybodyelse.

Q Haveyousoughtamedicalopinionfromamedicalexpert

aboutwhethertherecanbelongtermhealthrisksfromtheuseof

steroids?

A No.

Q I'malsointerestedinyourviewsaboutwhetherthere

areriskswithinprofessionalwrestlingifwrestlersareunderthe

influenceoflet'sstartwithillegaldrugswrestlinginthe

ring,performingintheringundertheinfluenceofillegaldrugs.

Mr.McDevitt.Definewhatillegaldrugsyou'rereferringto,

please,sowehaveaclearrecord.

Mr.Leviss:Iguessillegalperformanceenhancingdrugs.

Mr.McDevitt.Well,ifyoutalktopharmacologists,they'll

tellyoualmosteverydrugisaperformanceenhancingdrug.

Mr.Leviss.I'mnottalkingtoapharmacologist,amI?

Mr.McDevitt.No,you'rebutconfusinginyourquestions.

Ifyouwouldaskwhatdrugyou'rereferringto,thenhe'llanswer
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yourquestion.

Mr.Leviss.Whydon'twestartwithsteroidsthen?

Mr.McDevitt.Goahead.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Isitsafetosaythatwrestlingcanbeadangerous

activityorsport?Professionalwrestling,I'mtalkingabout.

A It'snotasport.Weknowthisisentertainment.

Q Canitbedangerous?

A Yes,itcan.

Q Canitbedangeroustothewrestlers?

A Yes,ofcourse.They'retheonewrestling.

Q Canitbedangeroustootherpeopleinandaroundthe

ring?

A Generally,certainly,no.

Q Okay.But

A Areyoureferringtospectators?

Q Refereesoranybodyelsewhomightbeinorrightnear

thering.

A Itcanbedangeroustoareferee.

Q Doyouhaveanyopiniononwhethertheuseofsteroids

bywrestlersintheringcouldpresentapotentialdangerto

themselvesorothersinthering,physicaldanger?

A Well,letmegobacktoyouroriginalquestion.

SinceIdon'tknowanylongtermeffectsofsteroidusage,

becausetherehasn'tbeenanystudiesonitbypeoplewhoapprove
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it,theFDA,Idon'tknowanymoreaboutthatthanIwouldmy

knowledgeofwhetherornottherearelongtermeffects.

Q Well,whataboutshorttermeffects?

A Iwouldn'tknowthateither.Idon'tthinktheFDA

givesyouthateither,dothey?

Q Youdon'thaveanyopiniononwhetherawrestlerwhois

currentlyusingsteroidscouldhavehisabilitiesimpairedinthe

ring?

Mr.McDevitt.Inotherwords,you'reaskingwhetherheknows

whethersteroidscausementalimpairment?

Mr.McMahon.Mentalimpairment?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Anysortofimpairment?

A I'mnotadoctor.Iwouldn'tknow.

Q Youdon'thaveanyopiniononit?

A Iwouldn'tknow.

Q Haveyouthoughtaboutitatall?

A No.

Q HasitcomeupinconversationsatWWE?

A Astowhetherornotusingsteroidscouldcausesome

sortofphysicalimpairmenttosafety?Isthatwhatyou're

talkingabout?

Q Sure.Aboutwhetherthecompanyoughttobeconcerned

atallabout

A Letmejustsay,thecompanyisalwaysconcernedabout
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safetyofourtalent,absolutely.Wewerethefirstpeopletodo

anynumberofthingstomakethingssafeforourtalent,ifthat's

thedirectioninwhichyou'regoing.

Q Well,doyouconsiderordoesthecompanyconsiderbeing

undertheinfluenceofsteroidsasapossiblesafetyissueinthe

ring?

A Idon'tknow.

Q Youdon'tknowwhetherthecompanyconsidersthatat

all?

Mr.McDevitt.Heansweredyourquestion.

Mr.Leviss.Idon'tunderstandyouranswer.

Mr.McDevitt.Youifdon'tunderstandhisanswer,that's

nothisproblem.Youaskthequestions;hegivestheanswers.

Mr.Leviss.Thisisnotaboutproblems,Jerry.Thisis

aboutmakingsurethatIhaveaclearunderstandingofhisanswers

tomyquestions.

Mr.McDevitt.No,itisnotaboutmakingsureyouhavea

clearunderstandingaboutanything.It'saboutansweringthe

questionyouaskhim.Hehasansweredthequestionyouaskedhim.

Ifyoudon'tunderstand,that'syourproblem.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Youjustsaidthatthecompanyhas

A IfyouwanttoknowwhatIjustsaid,we'llhaveitread

back.I'mnotgoingtotakeyourwordforwhatIjustsaid.

Q HasanyoneinmanagementatWWEconsideredwhetherthe
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possibilityoftalentbeingundertheinfluenceofsteroidscould

presentasafetyrisktopeopleintheringoraroundthering?

A Sincenooneinthecompanyhasanyknowledgeanymore

thananyonehereatthistablehasanymoreknowledgeabout

shorttermorlongtermeffectsofsteroids,Idon'tknow.

Q Soithasn'tcomeupindiscussionsatthecompany;is

thatwhatyou'retellingme?

A Idon'tknowaboutdiscussionsinthecompany.It

hasn'tcomeupinanyofmydiscussions,ifthat'syourquestion.

Q Well,youansweredthatnobodyknowsaboutthe

shorttermrisksorifthereareany.

A Andlongtermaswell.Andwewouldliketo,Ithink,

averagewhoevertakeswhateverdrugwouldliketobeableto

readthetableandhavetheFDAtellyouwhatsomeofthe

possibilitiesareaboutusingthesedrugsandsoforth.

Ithinkeverybodyatthistablewouldliketoseethat.I

don'tthinkthat'swhatyou'llfindfromtheFDA.

Q Howdoyouknowthatnooneinthecompanyhasanyviews

aboutthis?

A Idon't.Ijustsaidme.

Q Okay.

A Idon'tknowwhatotherpeopleinthecompanyIcan't

tellyouwhattheyarethinking.

Q Whydidyouputthecompany'sWellnessPolicyinto

place?
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A WhydidI?

Q Uhhuh.

A Becausewe'reconcernedaboutthewellnessofour

talent.That'swhyit'scalledtheWellnessPolicy.

Q AndoneaspectoftheWellnessPolicyisdiscouraging

abuseofsteroids;isthatcorrect?

A That'scorrect.

Q WhyisthatincludedintheWellnessPolicy?

A ItwassuggesteditshouldbeincludedbyDr.Black.

Q Doyouthinkitwasareasonableinclusion?

A Yes,becausehesuggestedit.

Q Didyouagreewithit?

A Otherwiseitwouldn'tbeinthepolicy.

Q IsthereanythingthatDr.Blacksuggestedforthe

policythatyoudisagreedwith?

A No.

Q DoyouhaveanyunderstandingaboutwhyDr.Black

suggestedthatsteroids,thatthepolicyshouldaddressthe

possibleabuseofsteroids?

A Theoriginalideaandtheoriginalproblemthatwe

thought,andindeedIthinkwehad,was

Becauseyoucan'tmeasurethesethings,theoriginalideawas

thatwefeltthattheabuseofprescriptiondrugswastheproblem

thatwehad;sonaturallywewentoutandhadaprogramput

togetherbyprofessionals.
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Dr.Blacksuggestedthatanyprogramputtogetherby

professionalsshouldincludesteroids,soweincludedsteroids.

Q Whatmadeyouconcludethattherewasaproblemwith

I'msorry,yousaidabuseof

A Prescriptiondrugs.

Q prescriptiondrugs?

A Right.

Q Whatmadeyoureachthatconclusion?

A Therewereanumberofincidentsinwhich,inthepast,

peoplehavefallenasleepwhentheyshouldn't,whichwould

indicatethattheyweretakingtoomanypainkillers,thingsof

thatnature.

Q SodidyoutaskDr.Blacktoputtogetherapolicy?

A Yes.

Q Andwhatsortofinstructionsdidyougivehimabout

whatshouldgointothepolicy?

A Really,it'smoreDr.Black'sdecision.Imean,in

termsofwhatistheverybestWellnessPolicywecanput

together.SoDr.Blackreallymademostoftherecommendations.

Q Anddidheexplaintoyouhisreasonsfordifferent

elementsoftheWellnessPolicy?

A Notreally.

Q Didyouquestionanyofhis,anyelementsofthe

WellnessPolicyashepresentedit?

A No,notreally.Wehaddiscussionsintermsof
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formulatingit,butotherthanthat

Q Somewitnesseshavetoldthecommitteethattheybelieve

WWE'scurrentbusinessmodelrequirestalentthatiswillingto

usesteroidsandillegaldrugs.

Howdoyourespondtothatopinion?

Mr.McDevitt.Waitaminute.Howdowerespondtowitnesses

wehaven'theardandthatyou'retellingussaythings?Wedon't.

Mr.Leviss.HowdoyourespondtotheopinionthatIhave

justdescribedtoyou?

Mr.McDevitt.Whorenderedtheopinion?

Mr.Leviss.Ijustrenderedtheopinion

Mr.McDevitt.No.No.Ijustwhorenderedthatopinionso

hecancommentontheiropinion?

Mr.Leviss.Doyouhaveanobjection?

Mr.McDevitt.Ido.Hewantstoknowthebiasofthe

witnesses,whotheyare,sohecancommentonit.

Mr.Leviss.Isthatyourresponsetotheopinion?

Mr.McMahon.Yes,itwouldbemyresponse.

Mr.McDevitt.Whoarethesepeople?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Doyouhaveanyotherresponsetoit?

A I'mabusinessman.

Q Okay.

A I'magoodbusinessman.

Q Ihavenodoubt,asuccessfuloneatthat.
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A Thankyou.

Q Whyisitanabsurdquestion?Educateme.

A Repeatthequestion.

Q Theopinionthatsomewitnesseshaveexpressedtothis

committeeisthatWWE'scurrentbusinessmodelreliesontalent

whoarewillingtousesteroidsorillegaldrugs.

Mr.McDevitt.Andwhoexpressedtheopinion?

Mr.Leviss.I'mnotgoingtotellyouwhoexpressedthe

opinion.

Mr.McDevitt.Whywouldyoucommentonthat?

Youdon'tevenhavetoanswerthat,Vince.Youdon'thaveto

commentonthat,andIwouldn'tifIwereyou.Thatisn'tevena

goodfaithquestion.

Youcan'tevenascertainfromwhatyousaidwhetherthis

personevenworksforWWE,haspersonalknowledgeorsomenutbag,

andhe'ssupposedtoexpressanopiniononthat?

Mr.Leviss.Mr.McMahon,you'reherevoluntarily.Ican't

compelyoutoanswerthequestion.

Mr.McDevitt.That'sright,youcan't.

Mr.Leviss.Iwouldaskyoutoconsideryourwillingnessto

beheretodayandrespondtoourquestions.

Thecommitteehasagoodfaithreasonforaskingthese

questions,basedontheinvestigationsofarandthewitnesses

we'veinterviewed.Imerelyaskyoutorespondtothem.

Mr.McDevitt.Ifyouhaveagoodfaithreason,thentellus
22

whoexpressedtheopinionsohecancommentonit.

Mr.McMahon.Iwouldliketoknowwhoexpressedtheopinion.

Mr.Leviss.Iunderstandthat,andthat'sareasonable

desire.And,unfortunately,I'mnotatlibertytosharethatwith

you.

Mr.McMahon.It'stotallyabsurd.

Mr.McDevitt.Ithoughtyouwereheretoaskhimfact

questions.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Whydoyouthinkpeoplemighthavethatview?

Mr.McDevitt.Wait.Letmebeclearhere.

Webroughthiminherevoluntarilytoaskfactbased

questionsaboutthesubjectonBrian'slist,notopinionsabout

somenutbagthatyouwon'tevenidentify,thatwedon'tevenknow

ifheeverworkedfortheWWE,hasanyknowledgeoftheWWEand

expressedopinions.

Ifyouhavefactquestionstoputtothiswitnessaboutthe

subjectmattersyouputthere,he'svoluntarilyheretoanswer

them,andIsuggestyoumakeuseofyourtimetodoso.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Mr.McMahondoyouhaveanyideawhysomebodywouldtell

ussomethinglikethat?

A Yes,Ido.

Q Okay.Canyoushareitwithus?

A Insanity.
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Q Nootherreason?

A Insanity.

Mr.McDevitt.Vince,don'teventakethesebaits.Youdon't

havetoanswerthosekindofquestions.

We'renotheretoanswerthose.Andifyouthinkyoucan

evergetasubpoenatoaskquestionslikethat,goaheadandtry.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Doyouhaveinputintothecreativesideofthe

business?Andbythat,Imeanaroleindeterminingwhoamongthe

talentispromotedwithinWWE?

A Yes.

Q Andwhatroleisthat?

A TodothebestIcantopresentthesetalentstothe

publicsothepubliccanprettymuchdeterminewhoisthemost

popularandtoputthesetalentsinthemostpopularenvironment

wepossiblycansothatwecandogoodbusiness.

Q Sure.No,Iunderstandthat.

It'smoreofaprocessquestion.I'mtryingtofigureout

whereyoufitintothecreativeprocess.Youknow,doideasas

anexample,doideasfloatupwithintheorganizationandget

presentedtoyou?Doyoutendtoinvolveyourselfearlyonin

discussionsaboutwhotopromotewhen?

I'mtryingtogetabetterunderstandingofthedaytoday

businessonthecreativeside,whatyourinvolvementislike.

A Well,Iguessmaybeitdependsonthedevelopmentofthe
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talent.Doyouwanttostartfromscratch?

Q Sure.Imean,overview.Idon'twanttowasteyour

time,butIdowanttounderstandhowthebusinessgoes.

A Okay.

Well,thebusinessgoesinasituationwherebyifsomeoneis

inadevelopmentalsystemandtheythinkthatthispersonhasthe

possibilityofmakingitinWWE,thentheyentersomesortofan

elementaryprogram.

Wetakealookatthemandseewhatkindofworkethicthey

have,whetherornottheyhavethe"it"factorintermsof

personalityandthecrowdacceptingthem,whatkindofverbal

skillstheyhave,overallpersonality.

Q Andareyouinvolvedatthatstage?

A No.

Q Does"we"meanthecompany?

A Right,that'sthecompany.I'mnotinvolvedinthat

stage.

Q Whenwoulditcometoyourattention?

A Afteryouhavesomeonewhobasicallyhasthose

qualities,thenI'mgoingtotrytofindtherightscenario,you

know,ormystaffwouldfindwritingstaff,Stephaniecertainly

wouldbeverymuchinvolvedintermsoftalentrelations,andtry

todevelopthetalentinsomeway.

Q StephanieisMs.McMahonLevesque?

A That'sright.
25

Q Justfortheclarityoftherecord.

A Sure.

Q Whataboutinvolvementincreatingstorylines?Areyou

involvedinthatprocess?

A Sure.

Q Inwhatwayoratwhatstageintheprocess?

A Itdepends.Wegetstorylinesfromourwriters,weget

storylinesfromourtalent,thingsofthatnature.Inthe

newspaper,orwhatever,wetrytocomeupwiththingsthatare

relevanttowhat'sgoingonintoday'senvironmentandtryto

relatetothat.

Q Butwheredoyoufitintotheprocess?

A Ultimately,ifit'stoptalent,I'llfitinatavery

highlevel.

Q Meaning?

A MeaningIwillbeverymuchinvolvedinthedevelopment

ofthattalent,ofthestoryline.

Q Bytoptalent,isthatlikethechampionsinthe

divisions?

A Notnecessarilychampions,buttoptalent.

Q Whatdoestoptalentmeantoyou?

A Toptalentmeanstomethatthepeoplethataredrawing

themoneyandpeoplewithpopularityofthemcomingintothe

arena.

Q Doyouhaveanyroleindeterminingwhichwrestlers
26

receivetopbillingwithintheorganization?

A Sure.

Q Andwhatroleisthat?

A Determiningwhetherornottheyreceivetopbilling.

Q Dopeoplemakerecommendationstoyouordoyoucomeup

withtheparticularwrestlersyourself?

A Acombination.

Q Doyouhaveanyroleinassigningwrestlerstospecific

divisionswithinthecompany?

A Whatdoyoumeanbyspecificdivisions?

Q ECW,Raw,SmackDown?

A Sure,Ihavearoleinthat.

Q Andwhatroleisthat?

A Supervisoryrole,generaloversight.

Q Whataboutchoosingtalenttoappearatpayperview

events?

A Sure.Ageneraloversight,sure.

Q Isthereanyaspectofthecompany'soperationswhere

youdon'thavesomeinvolvementorsomeoversightrole?

A I'mthechairmanoftheboard,soIwouldthinkIwould

havesomeoversightovereverythingthatwedoasthechairmanof

theboard.

Q Wouldthatincludemarketing?

A Thatdefinitelywouldincludemarket.

Q Woulditincludetalentrelations?
27

A Sure.

Q Operations?

A Asthechairmanoftheboard,IthinkIjustsaidthatI

wouldhavesomedegreeofoversightovereverythingthatwedo.

Q Inyourinvolvementindeterminingwhichwrestlers

appearinwhichstorylinesorwhichwrestlersareadvancedwithin

theorganization,doyouknowwhetherdiscussionsofsteroiduse

haveevercomeupintheseconsiderations?

A No.

Q Andjusttoclarify,discussionsofsteroidusehavenot

comeup?Or,no,you'renotaware?

A Notaware.

Q Whatkindofthingsdoyoulookforintoptalent?

A Principallythe"it"factor,whichisabroadbasedterm

forwhetherornottheyhave"it,"which"it"definingwhether

ornotthepublicfindsthempleasing:the"it"factor,their

personalityingeneral,theirflareforshowmanship,their

athleticismaswell,andtheirworkethic,theiroverallknowledge

ofthebusinessandthingsofthatnature.

Q Howdoyouassesswhethersomeonehas"it"ornot?

A Bylisteningtotheaudienceandwatchingtheaudience.

Weprettymuchhave,Iguesswhatwouldyoucall"it"?We

haveanexperiencealmosteverynightwithourouraudienceis

veryvocal,likeatestkindofenvironment.Sothey'lltellyou

whetherornotthey'rereactingtoatalent,beitpositiveor
28

negative.Andiftheydon'treacttoatalent,thattellsus

that'snotgood.

Q Yourdaughtercharacterizeditasafocusgroup?

A Thankyou.That'swhatIwastryingtoremember,focus

group.

Mr.Cohen.Whenyoutalkaboutthe"it"factor,isphysical

appearancepartofthe"it"factor,sizeandstrength,isthat

partofthe"it"factor?

Mr.McMahon.No,notnecessarily.Wehaveanexpression,

andI'llhavetodescribethisforyou,wehaveanexpressionthat

thisiswhereyoumakeyourmoney,meaningyourface,okay?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Soyou'reholdingyourhandsuponthesideofyour

face?

A Yes.Upbymyfaceinasquare.Itdependson,again,

yourpersonalityandyourprojectionmorethananythingelse,

whetherornotyouhaveit.Nodifferentthan,itappliestomost

everythinginshowbusiness,whichis,ofcourse,thebusiness

thatI'min.

I'mintheentertainmentbusiness.Sothat'sreallytheway

thatyou,quote,makeyourmoney,isyourface.Ifyouhavea

veryexpressivefaceandyoucanshowhappinessandyoucanshow

angerandyoucanshowsympathyandyoucanshowthingsofthat

natureinyourface,thentheaudiencegenerallycanrelateto

you.
29

Q Somewitnesseshavedescribedtoustheirperception

Mr.Leviss.Partofthisinvestigation,Mr.McMahon,isour

determiningwhethertestimonythatwereceivefromwitnessesis

credible,issupportedornot.Wewouldn'tneedyouinhereifwe

weregoingtobelieveeverywitness.

Mr.McDevitt.Idon'tbelievewhatyoujustsaid,becauseif

itwastrue,youwouldtellusthenamesofthewitnesses,and

thenyouwouldgetthebenefitofwhatweknowaboutthe

witnesses.

Ifyoureallywanttoknowifthey'recredible,howdoyou

expectthemtocommentwithoutknowingtheirnames?

Mr.Leviss.I'minterestedin

Mr.McDevitt.Youjustsaidotherwitnesses.

Mr.Leviss.hearingyourperspectiveonsomeopinions

thathavebeenreportedtous.Ican'timaginethatwecould

bringanybodyelseinherewithbroaderexperienceinprofessional

wrestlingatthispoint.AndI'minterestedinyourperspective

overtime.

Somewitnesseshaveexpressedthatwrestlersinthe'80shad

adifferentphysicallookthantheydotoday,meaningtheywere

lessmuscular,theywerelesssculpted,manyofthemhadguts.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Isthatanopinionthatyouwouldshareaboutwrestlers

inthe'80sversuswrestlerstoday?

A No.Asamatteroffact,intermsofsize,wrestlersof
30

todayaremuchsmallerthanwrestlersofyesteryear.

Q Really?Doyouhaveanyideawhythat'sthecase?

A Wecan'tfindbigguys.Imean,thereisnotan

attractiontoourcompanyofbigpeoplewantingtobeapartof

it.Isupposeit'stheNFLandthingsofthatnature.

Q Andby"big"doyoumeanheight,doyoumeanmuscles?

A Stoptryingtoputwordsinmymouth.

Q I'mnot.

A Youare.That'swhatyou'retryingtodo.

I'mjusttalkingoverall,generalappearance,not

muscularity.I'mtryingtohelpyouhereintermsofyour

speculationofthe'80s,asopposedtowhereitisnow.Andquite

frankly,I'mtellingyouthatfromaweightstandpoint,froma

heightstandpoint,wrestlerstodayaresmallerthantheywerein

the'80s.

Q HaveyouevertoldaWWEtalentorprospectivetalent

thattheyneededtogainweightorbebiggerormoremuscularin

ordertosucceed?

Mr.McDevitt.Youhavethreequestionsthere.

Mr.Leviss.I'mhappytobreakitupintothreequestions.

Mr.McDevitt.Whydon'tyoudothat?There'sastandardway

toaskalegalquestion.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q HaveyouevertoldaWWEtalentorprospectivetalent

thatheorsheneededtogainweightinordertobesuccessful?
31

A No.

Q HaveyouevertoldaWWEtalentorprospectivetalent

thatheorsheneededtobebiggerinordertobesuccessful?

A No.

Backtotheweight,Ihavesuggestedtheyloseweight.

Q Yousuggestedlosingit,butnotgainingit?

A Right.

Q HaveyouevertoldaWWEtalentorprospectivetalent

thatheorsheneededtobemoremuscularorwordstothateffect?

A No.

Q AreyouawareofwhetheranyonerepresentingWWEhas

evertoldatalentorprospectivetalentthatheorsheneededto

bebigger?

Mr.McDevitt.Anybodyrepresenting?Doyoumeanan

employee?

Mr.Leviss.AnybodywhocanspeakforWWE.

Mr.McDevitt.AnybodycanspeakforWWE.

Mr.Leviss.You'rethelawyer.Notanybodycanspeakfor

WWE.

Mr.McDevitt.AnybodycanclaimtospeakforWWE.Doyou

meananemployee?

Mr.Cohen.Employeeoracontractor.

Mr.McMahon.No.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Areyouawareofwhetheranybodywithauthoritytospeak
32

forWWEhasevertoldI'mgoingtohavetorunthroughmythree

questionsattheassistanceofyourattorney.

A Sure.

Q WhetheranybodywithauthoritytospeakforWWEhasever

toldeitheraWWEtalentoraprospectivetalentthatheorshe

neededtogainweight?

A No.

Q Areyouawareofwhetheranybodywithauthoritytospeak

forWWEhasevertoldaWWEtalentorprospectivetalentthathe

orsheneededtobemoremuscular?

A No.

Q Thankyou.

Mr.Cohen.Areyoufamiliarwiththetermtobe"onthe

gas"?

A Sure.

Q What'syourunderstandingofthatterm?

A Takingsteroids.

Q Andareyoufamiliarwiththetermtobeonthejuiceor

thejuice?

A Sure.

Q Andwhat'syourunderstandingofthatterm?

A Itmeansthesamething.

Mr.Cohen.Thankyou.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q HaveyouoranyoneatWWEevermadeitpartofascript
33

orstorylinethataparticulartalentneededtobebiggerormore

muscular?

A No.

Q HaveyouoranyoneatWWEevermadepartofascript

commentaryonthefactthatawrestlerhaslostweightoris

smallerthanheorsheusedtobe?

A Repeatthequestion.

Q HaveyouoranyoneatWWEevermadepartofascript

commentaryonwhetherawrestlerortalenthadlostweightoris

smallerthanheorsheusedtobe?

Mr.McDevitt.Iassumethewayyouphrasedthequestion,you

meantohisknowledge.

Mr.Leviss.EveryquestionIaskyoutodayistoyour

knowledge.

Mr.McDevitt.Well,no,youdon'tphrasethemthatway.

Youjustsaid,"haveyouoranybodyatWWE."That'snotthe

wayyouphrasethatkindofquestionifyouwanttoaskthatkind

ofquestion;yousay,"haveyou,oranybodytoyourknowledge"is

thewayyouphrasethatquestionifyou'regoingtoaskit,

Counsel.

Mr.Leviss.Mr.McMahon,tosaveustimetoday,youcan

assumethateveryquestionIaskyoutodayisprecededby"toyour

knowledge."

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q HaveyouoranyoneatWWEevermadepartofascript
34

discussionaboutwhetherawrestlerhaslostweightorissmaller

thanheorsheusedtobe?

A Notpartofascript,no.

Q Hasitbeenpartofthediscussioninaprogram,whether

ornotitwasoriginallyscriptedthatway,toyourknowledge?

A Idon'tscripteverythingourtalentssay.Theyadlib,

soIyouknow,theremayhavebeenadlibsomewhereoverthe

courseofthelast25,30yearsinwhichsomethingwouldhavebeen

saidaboutsomeone'ssize.

Intermsofscripting,answer,no.

Q Canyourecallanyrecentprogramwhere

Mr.Leviss.Whatdidyoucallthem,"talent"?

Mr.Cohen.Talent.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q wheretalenthavecommentedinadvanceofthematch

aboutthefactthatawrestlerhaslostweight,issmallerthanhe

orsheusedtobe?

A AsIrecall,therewasoneincidentinwhichTripleH,

asanablib,madereferencetoRandyOrtonwhohadbeeninjured

andhadnotbeentrainingandfirstcamebackjustintermsof

weightloss.

Q Andwhatwasthatreference?Couldyouelaboratefor

me?

A AllIcanrememberistheweightloss.

Mr.Cohen.Arethereanyotherincidents?
35

Mr.McMahon.Thatwasn'tscripted,itwasadlibbed.

Mr.Leviss.I'mgoingtogotoadifferenttopic.Idon't

knowifyouallhavequestions.

Ms.Safavian.We'regood.Thankyou.

Mr.Leviss.Ihavesomequestionsforyouaboutthe

transitionfromWWE'soriginaldrugtestingprogram,whichI

understandfromourpreviousinterviews,thedocumentsranuntil

1996tothecurrentpolicy,whichIunderstandwentintoeffectin

Februaryof2006.

I'mnotgoingtorunthroughthemechanicsofthedevelopment

ofthatfirstprogrambecausewecoveredthatwithprior

witnesses.ButIwouldliketodiscusssomeofthedifferences

betweenthetwoprograms.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q AsIunderstandit,youalleliminatedtherandomdrug

testingprogramin1996.Thisistheprogramthatranfrom'91

through'96;isthatcorrect?

A Yes.

Q Why,inyourview,didWWEstopthatprogram?

A Oneofthereasonswas,wewerecompetingwithTed

Turnerandwewerefightingforoursurvival.Itwasaprivate

companyatthetime.Wehadlost$5millionto$6million,and

testingwasveryexpensive.

Q Howexpensive?

A Inthesixfigures.
36

Q Howdidthetestingprogramaffectyourcompetitionwith

TedTurner?

A Idon'tunderstandyourquestion.YouhavetoaskTed

Turner.

Q IbelieveyousaidyouwerecompetingwithTedTurner's

program?

A Right.

Q Sohowdidcontinuingoreliminatingthedrugtesting

programimpactonyourcompetingwithTedTurner?

A Well,weeliminatedsomeofourcostsandatthesame

timewelaidoffalotofpeopleinourorganization,because,

again,wewerefightingforeconomicsurvival.Asamatterof

fact,ourCOOactually,CFOatthetimeeveneliminated

watercoolers,andthatwaswheremosteverybodyinthecompany

drewtheline,almostrevolted,becausewetookthewatercoolers

away.

Sothat'showdeepsomeofthecutswereintermsoftrying

tosavemoney.Andoneofthewaysthatwediditwasthecostof

thedrugprogram.

Q Hadthedrugprogrambeensuccessful,inyourview?

A Sure.

Q WhenwewereinterviewingLindaMcMahonyesterday,she

saidthat,inyourview,therewasnotalevelplayingfieldwith

TedTurner'swrestlingprogram,WCW,andthatthedrugtesting

programputWWEatacompetitivedisadvantage.
37

Isthatyourview?

Mr.McDevitt.Thisisthewayyourecharacterizewitness'

testimony,huh?

Mr.Leviss.LindaMcMahonusedthephrase"levelplaying

field"?

Mr.McDevitt.NowIhaveaclueastohowaccuratelyyou

characterizewitness'testimony;youaskhimaboutwhatother

witnesseshavetoldyou.

Mr.Leviss.AreyousuggestingthatLindaMcMahondidnot

say"levelplayingfield"yesterday?

Mr.McDevitt.ThatisnotthetotalityofLindaMcMahon's

testimonyaboutthecircumstancessurroundingtheterminationof

thedrugtestingprogram,atall.

Mr.Leviss.Ineversuggestedit'sthetotality.

Mr.McDevitt.It'sinterestinghowyoucondenseallofthat,

Counsel.Butanyway,goahead.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Doyouhaveanyviewonwhethertherewasalevel

playingfieldwithWCW?

A Thiswasn'tlevelatall.TedTurneratthattimehad

joinedforceswithTimeWarner,andhisresourceswerejustvast

andoursweren't,soitwasnotalevelplayingfield.

Q Inyourview,didhavingadrugtestingprogram,while

WCWdidnothavearandomdrugtestingprogram,didthatplaceWWE

atacompetitivedisadvantage?
38

A Well,again,aswewerefacingeconomicsurvival,saving

thecostofthatprogramhelpedusintermsofsavingmoneyand

helpedusthenhanginthereandcompetewithTurner.

Q Isitjustamatterofcost?Isthereanyotherreason

whyhavingadrugtestingprogramputyouatacompetitive

disadvantage?

A Whereareyougoingwiththis?

Q Itseemstomeanycostthecompanyhascouldbean

issue.

A Absolutely.That'swhyIsaidwedideverything.We

eventookthewatercoolersoutandhadtoputthembackin.

Q Inyourview,wasthereariskthatyouwerelosing

talenttoWCWbecause,inpart,WCWdidnothaveadrugtesting

program?

A Absolutelynot.TedTurneropenedhiswallet,wrotea

hugecheckandbasicallytookallofourtoptalentbywritingbig

checkswhichwecouldnotcompetewith.

Q JustsoIunderstand,inyourview,itwasapurely

economicdecisiontoeliminatetherandomdrugtestingprogram?

A Iwouldsuggestthatwasamajorreason,yes.

Q Arethereanyotherreasons?Maybethey'renotmajor

reasons,but

A Theremaybe,butnotthatIcanthinkofatthemoment.

Q Wasthereanydissentwithinthecompanyaboutwhether

toeliminatetheprogram,thedrugtestingprogram,in1996?
39

Mr.McDevitt.Expressedtohimorthatheknowsof?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Again,toyourknowledge?

A No.

Q Toyourknowledge,didDr.Blackexpressanydissent

abouteliminatingthedrugtestingprogram?

A Nottomyknowledge.

Q Didyouhaveanyconcernsthatifyoustoppedrandom

drugtesting,thesuccessesyouhadachievedinthatareamightbe

reversed,thattalentmightstartusingorabusingdrugs?

A Isupposethere'sthatpossibility.Again,Ithinkthe

mostimportantaspectofourcompanywastoremaininbusiness,

firstandforemost.

Q Butwasitaconcernthatyouhadatthetime?

A Well,letmesee,fromacommonsensestandpoint,ifyou

haveanyformoftestingandallofasuddenyoudon't,thereisa

possibilitythenthatsomeonemayuseillegaldrugs,moresothan

ifyouaretesting.

Q Thatwasaconcernyouweighedandyoumadeyour

decision?

A Ijusttoldyouwhatmyconcernwas.Wewerefighting

foreconomicsurvivalandeventookthewatercoolersout.

Idon'tknowhowmuchmoreclearIcanbeonthis.

Q Intheyearpriortoendingtheprogram,howmany

wrestlersapproximatelyweresuspendedforpositivedrugtests?
40

A Idon'tknow.

Q Wereany?

A Idon'tknow.Iimagineso.

Mr.Cohen.Wereyouresponsibleforadministering

suspensionsunderthatprogram?

Mr.McMahon.Yes.

Mr.Cohen.Wasanybodyelsedidyousharethat

responsibilitywithanybodyelse?

Mr.McMahon.No.Andagainthat'sthebiggestdifference

betweenprogramsofthepastandtheircurrentprogram.

Idon'thaveanythingtodowiththecurrentprogramother

thantheformulationofit.AndIthinkit'skindoflike

baseball,thatyouneedtohaveanindependentsourceoverseeing

thesethings,whichiswhatwehavenow.

I'mnotinvolvedatall,again,excepttheformulationofthe

wellnessprogram.Sothatmakesthisprograminandofitselffar

superiorthananythingwe'veeverhad.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Aftertherandomtestingpolicywassuspendedin1996

andbeforethecurrentpolicywasimplementedinthebeginningof

2006,wereanydrugtestsconductedonWWEtalent?

A Ibelieveso.

Q Anyideahowmany?

A No.Idon'trecall.

Q Weretheyconductedit'sa10yearperiodwe're
41

talkingabout.Weretheyconductedeveryyear,toyourknowledge?

A Theywereforcause,okay?ButIcan'ttellyouhow

manyandIcan'trecallhowmanywehadforcause.

Q Whatkindofreasonswouldjustifyordidjustifydrug

testingduringthattimeperiod?

A Ifsomeoneweretardyconsistently,iftheymissed

dates,iftheywouldfallasleepwhenthey'renotsupposedtofall

asleep.Anyaberrantbehavior,Ithink,wouldhavebeen,inall

likelihood,areason,aprobablereasontotest.

Q Anythingelse?

A Huhuh.

Mr.Cohen.Whoconductedthetests?

Mr.McMahon.IthinkBlackdid,butI'mnotcertain.

Mr.Leviss.I'mgoingtoshowyouadocumentthatyouall

producedtousthatwe'regoingtomarkExhibit1.AndI'mgoing

askyoutotakealookatitplease.

[VinceMcMahonExhibitNo.1

wasmarkedforidentification.]

Mr.McMahon.Sure.

Mr.Leviss.Tellmewhenyou'vehadachancetoreviewit.

Mr.McMahon.I'monthesecondparagraph.I'maslow

reader.

Mr.Chance.Thissaysthatrandomsuspensionhasbeen

stopped.Imean,Ijustwanttomakesureyouweresayingthat

thegrouptestinghadbeenstopped,butrandomwasstillinplace.
42

I'mjustwonderingifthatwasIjustwanttomakesure

we'reonthesamepageintermsofthat,thatthegrouptesting

hadbeenstopped,howeverrandomtestingwasstillanoptionafter

'96.

Mr.Leviss.Anoption?

Mr.Chance.Right.

Mr.Leviss.Yes.

Mr.McMahon.Okay.I'vereadthis.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q JusttoclarifywhatBenwasasking,randomtestingwas

anoptionbetween'96and2006?

A Anoption?

Q Well,thatwashisquestionthatI'mtryingtoconfirm.

Isthatthecase,wasrandomtestinganoptioninthattime

period?

A Letmesee.Icanprobablyreadthistoyouinthe

eventyouhaven'treadit.

Q I'vereadit.

A Okay,great."Additionally,wereservetherightto

testanyindividualanytimefortheuseofillegalsubstances."

Q Sothatmeansthatthecompanyreservedtherightto

conductrandomdrugtests,correct?

A Yes.

Q AndwhenIaskedyoubeforewhetherindividualswere

testedinthattimeperiod,Igotthesensefromyouranswerthat
43

allthetestsyoucouldrecallwereforcause,thattheywerenot

randomdrugtests.

AmIunderstandingyouranswercorrectly?

A Right.

Q ThedocumentIaskedyoutotakealookatisa

memorandum.It'sdatedOctober25,1996.Itappearstobesigned

byyouandsenttoalltalent,agents,refereesandringcrew.Is

that,infact,yourmemorandum?

A Yes.Notmyhandwriting,butitdoesn'tmatter;it'son

mystationeryandI'msureIapprovedit.

Q Andthismemorandumannouncesthateffective

immediately"WWE,effectiveimmediately,issuspendingdrug

testingandcollectiononagroupbasis"?

A That'swhatitsays.

Q AndwhenIwasaskingyouquestionsaboutendingthe

randomdrugtestingpolicyin1996,thisisthememorandumthat

endsthatdrugpolicy;isthatcorrect?

A That'scorrect.

Q Okay,that'sfine.Thankyou.Idon'thaveanyother

questionsaboutthat.

A Justfortherecord,bytheway.

Q Sure.

A Wearetheonlywrestlingorganizationinhistoryto

everhaveanykindofdrugand/orWellnessPolicyever.Thisis

ourthirdonenow,whichisunquestionablyourbest.Butwe're
44

theonlyorganizationinthehistoryofthisbusiness,tomy

knowledgeanyplaceintheworld,thathasinstitutedanythinglike

this.

Wecertainlyaremoreconcerneditshowswearemore

concernedforourtalentthananyotherorganizationinhistory,

includingthestandardizationofrings,whichisextremely

important,tomakesurethatringsareclean;makesurethatthey

areallthesamesize,becauseiftheyarenotallthesamesize,

youhavea16footringascomparedtoan18ora20.

Thewayitusedtobeyearsago,youwouldgotoacertain

areaandyoucouldhaveadifferentsizering,differenttypeof

ropesaswell,andtheringscouldbeveryhardordifferentthan

that.Sowewentthroughtheeffortofstandardizingrings.

Wealsowentthroughtheeffortofcreatingabarrieraround

theringsothatitwouldhaveacorralinessence.Wealsowere

thefirstpeopletohavematsdownontheflooraroundtheringin

theeventthatsomeonefelloutofthering,asopposedtofalling

onconcrete.

Sotherearemany,manythingslikethatinthehistoryof

thisindustryinwhichwe'reveryproudtosaythatwehave

demonstratedourconcernforthewellnessofourathletesjust

fortherecord.

Q AndIappreciateyouraddingthat.

Whowithinthecompanyorwhatgroupwithinthecompanyhad

theresponsibilityforcomingupwithnewsafetymeasures,
45

recommendingsomeoftheimprovementsthatyou'vetalkedabout?

A Basically,theycomefromanybody.

Q Imean,isitanybody'sjobinparticular?

A Ithinkit'severybody'sjob.

Q Wherehavemanyofthesesuggestionscomefrom,theidea

toputthematsaroundtheringsinsteadofconcrete?

A Thatwasmine.

Q Wereanyoftheothersyoursuggestion?

A Sure.Standardizingringswasmysuggestion,aswell.

Q Isitsafetosaythatyouarecontinuallyevaluating

riskstothetalentandthespectatorsandimprovingthering

setup?

A Idon'tthinkwecanimprovetheringsetup.Ithink

it'sasgoodasitcanpossiblybe.Butwe'reopenfor

suggestionsbyanyoneintermsofimprovement.

EvenourcurrentWellnessPolicy,thecurrentWellnessPolicy

continuestoimproveallthetime.Idon'tthinkthere'syetto

staywiththetimesintermsofaWellnessPolicyoranyother

policyasitrelatestosafetyandthebenefitofyourperformers.

Nothingissetinstone.

We'veaddedDr.Ray,we'reconsideringaddingan

endocrinologist,thingsofthatnature.We'veaddedmoredrugs

thatareprohibited.Thisisaworkinprogress,asanygood

programwouldbe,aworkinprogress.Nothingissetinstone.

Sowe'realwayslookingforwaysinwhichwecanbetterour
46

companyinanoverallbasis.

Q Whatarethegoalsorwhatarethegoalorgoalsof

theWellnessPolicy,inyourview?

A Tohavewellnessforourathletesgenerally,justas

it'sstated.

Q Isit,ineffect,companywide,doesitgoverneverybody

atthecompanyorjusttalent?

A Itonlygovernsthosetalentsthatareregularly

scheduledtocompeteinthering.Isay"compete,"performinthe

ring.

Q Sowhatcategoriesofemployeesorcontractorsare

excludedfromthat?

A Well,weliveinConnecticut,ourheadquartersarein

Connecticut.AndIbelieveit'sagainstthelawtotestany

Connecticutresident.

Mr.McDevitt.Employee.

Mr.McMahon.Employee.Thankyou.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Sothatmeansnoonefromheadquartersiscovered;is

thatwhatyou'resaying?

A That'scorrect.

Q Arethereanyotherarealloftheoperationsin

Connecticutoraretheyelsewhere,aswell?

A Byoperations,ourworldheadquartersarein

Connecticut.WehaveofficesinLondon.Let'ssee.Wejust
47

openedoneinChina.Wehavesixorsevenofficesalloverthe

globe.

Mr.Cohen.AreanyofyourtalentfromConnecticut?

Mr.McMahon.Sure.Ithinksomeofthemare.

Mr.Cohen.AretheysubjecttotheWellnessPolicytesting

provisions?

Mr.McMahon.Yes.

Mr.McDevitt.Becausethey'reindependentcontractorsand

theyhavecontracts.

Mr.Cohen.Sofulltimeemployees;contractorsaren't?

Mr.McDevitt.Thewellnessprogramisaboutwrestling

talent.Anindependentcontractorisnotacorporateemployee.

Mr.Cohen.Iknow.I'mtryingtounderstandthepolicy.

I'mnotfamiliarwithConnecticutlawwithregardtorandom

testingofemployeesandcontractors.I'mtryingtounderstand

that.

Mr.McDevitt.IcanprovidetheciteforConnecticutlaw,if

youwantit.Butyoucan'tdrugtestemployeesunderConnecticut

law.AndseveralStates,bytheway,havelawslikethat.Some

peoplefinditoffensivetohavetopissinbottlesinfrontof

people.

Mr.Cohen.AndyoucandrugtestcontractorsinConnecticut?

Mr.McDevitt.Thestatutecoversemployees.Itdoesnot

addressindependentcontractors.

Mr.Cohen.Okay.
48

Mr.McDevitt.That'swhythedesignationisimportant.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Whataboutperformers,Iguess,whoappearoncamera,

butwhoaren'twrestling,aretheyindependentcontractors?

A Suchas?

Q Referees.They'retalent,right?

A Ithinkrefereesareindependentcontractors.

Q AretheysubjecttotheWellnessPolicyaswell?

A Ibelieveso.

Q Whataboutthetrainers;aretheytalent?

A No.Ithinkthey'reindependentcontractors,asI

recall.

Q Youthinktheyareindependentcontractors?

A Doyouwantthisback?

Q Sure.Whydon'tweputithere.Thetrainers,you

believe,areindependentcontractors;isthatwhatyousaid?

A Look,I'mnotrealcertainatthatlevelwhetherornot

someoneisanindependentcontractor,whetherornotthey'rean

employee.

WegotthemoutofHealthSouth,okay,soIdon'tknowwhether

ornottheyare,ornot.Andsomeoftheotherindividuals,you

know,onalowerlevel,Iwouldn'tknow.

Q Isanybodyelseapartfromthewrestlerscoveredbythe

WellnessPolicy?

A SpecificallyImean,again,yousaidwhyareyou
49

frowning?

Q I'mnotfrowning.I'mtryingtounderstand.I'lltry

tosmilemore.

A Good.Thereyougo.

I'mnotsure.Generallythisisforourfulltime

employeesnotemployees,butperformersinthering;theremay

besomeotherpeoplethatareunder.Whetherornotreferees

areIbelievetheyare,okay.

ButtheremaybesomebodyI'mforgetting,so,youknow,

generally.Imean,that'swhatthisWellnessPolicyisallabout.
50

RPTSKESTERSON

DCMNHOFSTAD

[2:49p.m.]

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Inthetimeperiodbetween1996whentherandomdrug

testingpolicywasendedandthebeginningof2006whenthe

wellnesspolicywentintoeffect,didyoueverlearnfirsthandor

receivefirsthandinformationthatanyindividualassociatedwith

WWEhadusedsteroids?

A "Associated,"doyoumeanlikethejanitororsomething

likethatinthebuilding?Youknow,whatIdon'tknowwhat

"associated"means.

Q AnybodypaidbyWWEindependentcontractors,talent,

employees.

A Again,wepayalotofpeople.Itissuchabroad

question.Idon'thaveanyideawhatyouaretalkingabout.

Q Let'sstartwithtalentthen.

A DoIhaveanyknowledgeofanytalentthattooksteroids

duringthatperiodoftime?

Q Tooksteroids,correct.

A NotthatIrecall.

Q Howaboutemployees?Samequestion.

A NotthatIrecall.

Q Howaboutmanagement?Samequestion.

A NotthatIrecall.
51

Q Okay.Again,inthetimeperiodbetween1996whenthe

randomdrugtestingpolicywasendedand2006whenthewellness

policywentintoeffect,didyoueverreceivefirsthand

informationthatanyindividualassociatedwithWWEI'llstart

withtalenthadusedillegaldrugs?

A By"illegaldrugs,"areyoumakingreferenceto

steroids?

Q No.Ialreadyaskedyouaboutsteroids.Iguessthe

useofsteroidswithoutanappropriateprescriptionwouldbe

illegal.

A That'scorrect;itwouldbeillegal.

Q So,yes.

A NotthatIrecall.

Ihavetosaysomethinghere,guys.Idon'tknowwhere

you'regoinginbetweenthesepolicies.Okay.Butletmejust

stateagainfortherecord,okay,thatIthinkwhatmosteveryone

shouldbeconcernedwithiswhatwe'redoingnow,whatourcurrent

policyis.

AndIdon'twanttobepenalizedandIsomewhatfeelI'm

insulted,quitefrankly,sittinginfrontofyoutodayby

answeringsomeoftheseridiculousquestions.I'mabusinessman.

I'magoodbusinessman.Idothingslegally.We'reapublic

company.Weputsmilesonpeoplesfacesallovertheword.

That'swhatwedo.Thisisafunbusiness.

Soitseemstomethatthisinquiryissomesortofwitch
52

huntinwhichIguesssomeoneistryingtopenalizemeorsuggest

thatwhatgoesonatourcompanyisnotproper.Again,withthis

wellnessprogram,thisisthebestonewehaveeverhad.SoI

don'tunderstandtherelevancebetweenthesecondwellnessprogram

andthis.Idon'thaveanyideawhereyou'regoingorwhyyou're

evenaskingmethesequestions.

Q Well,nobodyistryingtopenalizeanybody.

A ThenIwouldexpectagoldstaronmylapelwhenIleave

thisroom.

Q We'lllookforagoldstar.

Thequestiongoestotryingtounderstandwhatyourknowledge

wasbetweentheendofthefirstprogramandthebeginningofthe

secondprogramaboutthelevelofsteroidusageamongWWEtalent

andemployeesandtheleveloftheabuseofillegaldrugs,whether

therewasanyornot.We'retryingtounderstand

A Therecouldhavebeen.IthinkIsuggestedearlier

therecouldhavebeenanincidentinwhichwehadtestingfor

individualsthat,youknow,hadaberrantbehaviororwhathave

you.Otherthanthat,theansweris,no,Idon'trecallanyone

whohashadaproblemwithanythingillegal.

And,again,weareapubliccompanynowandranitpretty

muchlikeapubliccompanyinthepast.We'renotgoingtobe

dealinginillegalactivities.Thatisnotgoodbusiness.

Q Ofcourse.

A Sowhenyouaskmesomethinglikethat,didsomesortof
53

illegalactivityIfindittobeoffensive.

Q I'mnotaskingyouifyou'reengagedinillegal

activity.

A Itsoundstomelikeyouare.

Q Beforeyouhadyouroriginaldrugtestingpolicy,did

youhaveanyknowledgeaboutwhetherWWEtalentoremployeeswere

abusingsteroids?

A No.

Q Soyouputthepolicyintoplaceforwhatreason?

A You'retalkingabouttheveryfirstone?

Q Sure.

A Thefirstpolicywasgenerallyputinplacebecauseit

wasperceived,andIbelieveaccuratelyso,thatwehadacocaine

problem.Anditwasthe'80sandalotofpeoplewereengagedin

thatkindofpartyatmosphere.Thatisthereasonwhy.Idon't

evenknowifwetestedforsteroidsinthatfirstpolicyornot.

Q Sotherewasaperceptionatthattimethattheremight

beacocaineproblemamongsomeWWEpersonnelortalent?

A Yes.

Q Priortostartingtheoldpolicy.Wasthereany

perception,inbetweenthetwopolicies,between1996and2006,

wasthereanyperceptionaboutwhetherWWEtalentorpersonnel

mighthaveasteroidsproblem?

A Idon'tknowhowIwoulddeterminesomeonehasa

steroidsproblem,quitefrankly.
54

Q Okay.Howaboutanillegaldrugproblem,likethe

cocaineproblemyoualludedtointhe'80s?

A Therecouldhavebeeninstancesinwhichthere

weresomeoneengaginginthatkindofactivity.

Q Wasthatyourperception?

A Look,Idon'tknowwhereyou'regoingwiththis.I

reallydon't.

Q I'mtryingtounderstandyouranswer.

A Wekeepgoingaroundandaroundhereonthisstuff.I

can'ttellyou,intermsofmyrecollection.Thiswasalongtime

ago,guys.Alotgoesthroughmyhead,youknow,asthechairman

oftheboardofapubliccompanyonadailybasis.Ican't

rememberalotofthisstuff.

AllIcantellyouis,youknow,we'vehadthisisour

thirdwellnessordrugwhateveryouwanttosaypolicyput

intoeffect,andnoonehaseverhadone,includingTedTurner

fromTimeWarner.Okay?Noonehaseverhadoneofthese,tomy

knowledge.

Imean,Idon'tgetyourlineofquestioninghere.Ireally

don't.Itisaccusatory,andIfinditoffensive.

Mr.Cohen.Mr.McMahon,we'renotheretooffendyou.We're

heretogetthefacts.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Priorto2006,wereyouawareofanymediareportsof

theuseofsteroids?
55

A Couldhavebeen,absolutely.

Q Ortheuseofillegaldrugs?

A Couldhavebeen.

Q Doyourememberanyspecificinstancesofinformation

beingbroughttoyourattention?

A No,Idon't.

Q Thankyou.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Whatmadeyoustartupthewellnesspolicyin2006?

A Ithoughtitwastherightthingtodo.

Q Okay.Why?

A Becausewewereconcernedaboutthewellnessofour

performers.

Q Sure.

A Whatdoyoumean,"sure"?

Q Well,Ibelieveyouwhenyousayyou'reconcernedabout

thewellnessofyourperformers.That'swhyIsaysure.Whydid

youfeelthattherewasaneedforawellnesspolicy?

A Well,becausewe'reconcernedaboutthewellnessofour

performers.Anditwassomethingthatwehaddiscussed

internally,astoinstituteawellnesspolicy,nota"gotcha"drug

policykindofthing,althoughthatispartofit,butmoreofa

wellnesspolicyfortheconcernofourperformers.

Q Okay.

[Discussionofftherecord.]
56

Q Diddevelopingawellnesspolicyhaveanythingtodo

withthedeathofEddieGuerrero?

A No.Quitefrankly,wehadbegundevelopingthepolicy

priortoEddie'suntimelydemise.

BYMR.BUFFONE:

Q By"developingthepolicy,"whatdoyoumean?

A Formulatingstrategy.IbelieveIthinkDr.Black

actuallywasengagedinthispriortoEddie'sdeath.

Q SoitisyourrecollectionthatyoucontactedDr.Black

priortoEddieGuerrero'sdeath?

A Ibelieveitwouldhavebeenapartofit.Iknowthat

itwasdiscussedintermsofbuildinginawellnesspolicyprior

toEddieGuerrero'sdeath,correct.

BYMS.DESPRES:

Q Canyoudescribewhatthemajorcomponentsofthe

wellnesspolicyare?

A Themajorcomponentsaretheoverallwellnessofour

talent.

Q Butspecificallywhatdoesthewellnessprogramfocus

on?

A Ithinkthatyouallhavecopiesofthewellnesspolicy,

andIwouldsuggestyougoreadthat,becausethatwilltellyou

mosteverythingyouneedtoknow.

What?Cardiacincludeswellness

Mr.McDevitt.Butitisnotinthedocument.
57

Mr.McMahon.Oh,Ibegyourpardon.

BYMS.DESPRES:

Q And,actually,thecardiacwedoknowaboutthe

cardiacprogram,andthatisoneofthethingsIwaswondering,

is,whydidyouchooseletmestepback.

Thewellnesspolicyconsistsofadrugtestingcomponent,

whichisafairlysignificantcomponentofthepolicy,anda

cardiacwellnesspolicycomponent.Whythosetwoasthefocus?

A Well,theheartisamajorportionofthebody,andit

isneededtopumpbloodthroughthebodysoyoucanperformdaily

duties,andtheheartisextremelyimportantineverythingthat

youdo.Alotofcardiovasculartestingisbeingdonenowwith

varioussports,thingsofthatnature.

Soitwasimportantforus,youknow,intermsofour

athletes,tomakesureasamatteroffact,wehadoneinstance

latelyinwhichthenewwellnessprogram,intermsofthetesting,

actuallyfoundasignificantprobleminoneofourperformers.

Subsequentlyitwasfixed.Theindividualwastakenoffthe

roster,intermsofhisperformance,atthetimeuntil

subsequentlyhewasreleasedbyamedicalphysicianandthe

problemhadbeenfixed.

SoIthinkitisalogicalextension,ifyou'retryingtodo

awellnesspolicy,thatyou'dcertainlyincludetheheart.

Q Doyouincludeneurologicalisthereaneurological

componenttothewellnessprogram?
58

A No,thereisn't.Itissomethingwe'reconsidering

though,inourwellnessprogram.

Q Whataboutorthopedic?

A Whatisorthopedic?

Q I'mjustthinkingwrestlersprobablyareatincreased

riskforallkindsof,youknow,hipissuesandkneeissues,

ankles,elbows,shoulders.Isthatcomponentincludedinthe

wellnessprogram,aswell?

Mr.McDevitt.Whydon'tyouaskthemwherewesendpeople

fororthopedicproblemswhentheygethurt.Thatmightanswer

yourquestion.

BYMS.DESPRES:

Q Iwouldlikethat,butjustintermsof,ifIcould,in

termsofunderstandingthewellnessprogram,isthereaspecific

orthopediccomponenttothewellnessprogram?

A Idon'texactlyunderstandyourlineofquestioning.We

haveproblemssometimesbecauseofthenatureofourbusiness,you

know,thatrequirethingstobefixed.Ihadadoublequadtear

onbothlegs.

You'resympatheticwiththat.Thankyou.Ifonlyitwere

genuine.

Buttherearealotofproblemsthatyouhave,brokenribs,

thingsofthatnature.Itisthenatureofourbusiness.Other

thansaying,"Don'tgooutthereandperform,"Idon'tknowwhere

you'regoingwiththis.
59

Whensomeonedoeshaveaninjury,wesendthemtothe

appropriateparties.Dr.Andrewsisoneoftheforemostdoctors,

intermsofputtingpeoplebacktogetherdown,inAlabama.Hehas

donesomeworkonmeaswellasalotofourotherperformers.

ButIdon'tknowwhatyoumeanbythat,otherthanaconcern,

obviously,forourathletes.

Q Iguess,withthecardiaccomponent,ifyouhavecardiac

screeningforthewrestlers,thatispartofthatwellness

program,thattheygoandtheyhavethiscardiacdoctorthatthey

getscreenedby.AndIunderstandthat'sanewfeatureofthe

wellnessprogram.

A That'scorrect.

Q Right.AndsoIwasjustwonderingwhethertherewas

somethingsimilarforotherbodyparts,wherewrestlersmaybe,

youknow,particularlyvulnerable.Andthat'swhyIthoughtthat

orthopedicjustaskedyouaboutanorthopedicprogramor

perhapsaneurologicalprogram.

A IthinkIansweredyourquestion,intermsofthe

neurologicalprogramissomethingwe'relookinginto,actually,

withsomeguysoutofPittsburgh.ButIdon'tknowhowwecould

throwinsomesortoforthopedicaspectintothewellnesspolicy.

Idon'tunderstand,really,whatyouareevensaying.

ButallIcantellyouisthat,asIsaidearlieron,this

programisaworkinprogress.Andwhateverthatworkinprogress

continuestomakethisabetterwellnesspolicy,wearecontinuing
60

topursue.

Q Thankyou.

Mr.Leviss.I'mgoingtomarkthisasExhibit2.AndI'll

askyoutotakealookatit.

[VinceMcMahonExhibitNo.2

wasmarkedforidentification.]

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Tellmewhenyou'vehadachancetoreviewit.

A I'vejustscannedit.Ifyouwantmetoreaditlineby

line,Ithinkwe'llbehereforanotherhourorso.

Q Ihopethatwon'tbenecessary.

WhatwemarkedasExhibit2isacollectionofdocumentsthat

yourcompanyprovidedtous,whichIbelievetobethe2006

SubstanceAbuseandDrugTestingPolicyasitwaseffectiveon

February27,2006.Isthatwhatyoubelievethistobe,aswell?

A Sure.

Q Iunderstandthattherehavebeensomeamendmentstothe

currentpolicyinbetweenFebruary2006andtodaythatshouldn't

reallybeimportantforthesequestions.

UnderSection11ofthepolicy,whichisonpage67the

pagenumberI'mreferringtoisthepagenumberatthebottom

there.

A Whatisthepagenumber?

Q Page67.

A I'mwithyou.
61

Q Section11definesapositivetest,anditstatesamong

otherthingsletmeseeittalksaboutbaselinetesting,

that,"Theinitialtestoftalentunderthispolicyshallbe

consideredbaselinetestingandshallnot,ifpositive,subject

talenttodisciplinaryaction."I'mreadingat(b).

Whatwastherationale,ifyouknow,forhavingabaseline

testunderthepolicythatdoesnotincludeanypenaltiesfora

positivetest?

A Ithinkyouhavetostartsomewhere.

Q Okay.Youhavetostartsomewhere,meaningwhat?

A Youhavetostartsomewhereintermsoftheinstitution

ofawellnesspolicy.

Q Okay.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Whywasthedecisionmadetostartwithbaselinetests

thatdidnotsubjecttalenttoinitialpenalties?

A Ithink,again,Ithinkprobablyeveryprogramis

probablyalittledifferent.Youcanfindanumberofdifferences

ineveryprogram.Forinstance,intheNFLmyunderstandingis

thatwetest,onaverage,fourtimeseachtalent,fourtimesa

year;theNFLdoesn't.

SoIthinkthatthereareanumberofthingswhereyoucan

pickapart,youknow,everytest.Iwouldsuggestwefeltthis

wasthefairwaytobegintesting.And,youknow,itisawayto

begintheevolvementofwhatInowconsidertobe,youknow,an
62

excellentwellnessprogram.

AndImightaddthisjustfortherecord,thatweare,tomy

knowledge,notonly,asIstatedbefore,theonlywrestling

companytoeverinstituteanythinglikethis,wearetheonly,to

myknowledge,entertainmentcompanytodoanythinglikethis.We

areintheentertainmentbusiness.And,asIrecall,Congressman

Waxmanisfromthedistrictorwhathaveyouofprettymuchofthe

heartofentertainment.Idon'tknowofanyotherentertainment

companythatinstitutesanytypeofwellnessprogramlikethis.

So,again,justfortherecord,thereisabigdistinction

betweenWWEasanentertainmentcompanyandMajorLeagueBaseball

oranyothersportthatisoutthere.

SoIbelievethatthiswasawaytostarttheprogramsothat

itevolvesintowhatitisnowandwillcontinuetoevolveinto

thebestwellnesspolicyanywherearound,iswhatwehope.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Whoareyourprimarycompetitorsintheentertainment

business?

A Anyonewhoasksforadollarfromtheconsumer.Itcan

bemoviecompanies.Itcanbeanyplacewhereyouareaskingfor

abuck.That'sourcompetition.

Q Arethereparticularcompaniesorentitieswhoyouview

asbeingincompetitionforthesamemarketshare,thesame

audience?

A Well,thereisanotherwrestlingcompany,ifthatis
63

yourquestion.

Q Onlyifthat'swhoyouviewasyourprimarycompetitor.

A IjusttoldyouwhoIviewasmyprimarycompetitor,

unlessyouwanthertoreaditback.Doyouwantmetorestate

it?

Q Anybodyinvolvedinentertainmentisyourcompetitor

A Thataskstheconsumerforadollar.Itdoesn'tmatter

whatitis,becausewecrossalmosteveryline.We'reinthefilm

business,okay?Weareintheliveeventbusiness,the

payperviewbusiness,thepublicationbusiness.We'reacrossthe

board.Youknow,we'realmostineveryform.So,yeah,anyone

whoisintheentertainmentbusinessisourcompetitor.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Asentertainers,doyoubelieveyourtalenthasan

influenceonthebehaviorofthegeneralpublicinanyway?

A Aninfluenceinwhatrespect?Influenceintermsof

whetherornottheyenjoyourproduct?

Q Whethertheyletmespecifyit.Adolescentmales,as

aparticulardemographic,adolescentmales,doyoubelievethey

lookuptotheWWEwrestlers?Dotheydesiretobelikethemin

anyway?Dotheyseethemasrolemodels?

A Iwouldsuggestnot.Iwouldsuggestyou'resmiling

again.Betterthanafrown.

Iwouldsuggesttoyouthatadolescentsareprettysmart,

eventhoughthatisaverysmallsegmentoftheviewingaudience
64

thatwehave.Butnonetheless,Ithinkthatthey'reprettysmart.

Theyknowthatwhatwedoisaperformance.Sotheyknowthat

everythingwehavearecharacters.Theyarenotreallife

individuals.

SoIwouldsuggestthatnoonebelievesanyofthesehuman

beingsarerolemodelsanymoresothanBatman.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Asabusinessman,howdoyougaugethesuccessofthe

company?Doyoulookatfinancialmetricsversusthoseofanother

company,ordoyouhavesomeotherwaythatyouevaluatewhether

thecompanyismeetingyourbusinessgoals?

A Well,letme,fortherecord,againstatethatI'mnever

satisfiedwithanything,intermsofourbottomlineorour

grossesoranythingatalllikethat.

Q Youwantworlddominationinentertainment?

A That'syourwords,notmine.I'dliketohaveasbiga

pieceaswecanallovertheword.Butthequestionis

Q Iwastryingtounderstandhowyouevaluatebusiness

successforthecompany.

A Bottomlineandstockvalueandthingsofthatnature.

Q Backtothebaselinetestingandthewellnesspolicy,do

youknowwhoseideaitwastoincorporatethatprovisionintothe

policy?Andby"thatprovision"Imeanabaselinetestforwhich

thereisnopenaltyforapositivetestforaprohibiteddrugora

metaboliteofaprohibiteddrug.
65

A No,Idon'trecallwhoseideaitwas.

Again,guys,youhavetostartsomeplace.We'rean

entertainmentcompany.Westartedsomeplace.Thiswasapartof

thewaywestartedthewellnessprogram.Whenyoulookatiton

anongoingbasisandthethingsthatweputinsincethen,thisis

anexcellentwellnesspolicy.You'vegottobeginsomewhere.

Areyoutryingtoslapmywristsbecausetherewassomesort

of,youknow,provisionlikethis?Iguessthat'syouropinion.

Ifthat'swhatyouwanttodo,gorightahead.Itwasastart.

Q Nobodyisslappinganybody'swrists.We'retryingto

understand

A Great.Thankyouverymuch.Idon'twantyoutospank

meonthebutteither.IwantthatgoldstarwhenIleavehere.

Q Iwilllookforone.

We'retryingtounderstandhowthepolicyevolved.In

documentsthatwereprovidedtothecommittee,itindicatesthat

approximately75WWEwrestlerstestedpositiveinthatbaseline

roundoftests.

A Testedpositiveforwhat?

Q Foreitheraprohibiteddrugorametaboliteofa

prohibiteddrug.

A Okay.

Q Wereyousurprisedbythatnumberofpositivetest

results?

A Yes,Iwas.
66

Q Andwhywereyousurprised?

A Ididn'tthinkthatwe'dhavethatkindofpopulation,

youknow,withthoseproblems.

Q Thatwasahighernumberofpositiveteststhanyou

expected?Isthatwhatyouaresaying?

A That'swhatIjustsaid,thanIwould'veanticipated,

yes.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Didyouanticipateacertainnumberofpositives?

A No.Iwasjustsurprised.Iwasn'tshockedmaybe,but

Iwassurprisedbythatnumber.

Q Inthisbaselinetesting,wereyouevermadeawareof

whetheranyatthetimethetestswereconductedthiswasin

early2006,whenthetestswereconductedwereyouevermade

awareofanycurrentorformerWWEchampionsortopWWEtalent

thattestedpositiveunderthisbaselinetestingprogram?

Mr.McDevitt.WashegiventhenamesbyDr.Black?Isthat

thequestion?

Mr.Cohen.Wereyougivenanynamesdidyoufindoutby

Dr.Blackorthroughothersources,didyouatthetimeofthe

testing?

Mr.McDevitt.You'veputsomeidentifiersinthequestion.

Ithinkafairparaphrasetoyourquestionis,didDr.Blackgive

himtheidentitiesofthepeoplewhotestedpositiveonthe

baselinetesting?Isthatessentiallywhatyouareasking?
67

Mr.Cohen.Idon'tknowifIcanrestrictthequestionto

Dr.Black.Idon'tknowwhoelseintheWWEmighthavehadthis

information,mighthaveprovidedittoMr.McMahon.

Mr.McDevitt.Well,ithastocomefromDr.Black,atleast

originally.DidDr.BlackoranybodythatDr.Blacktoldthe

identitiestoconveytheidentitiesofthebaselineteststo

Mr.McMahon?Isthatessentiallywhatyouareasking?

Mr.Cohen.Thatismyquestion.

Mr.McMahon.AndwhetherornotIreadthenames,orthings

ofthatnature?Idon'trecallreadinganyofthenames.

Tome,itdoesn'tmatter.Itdoesn'tmatter.Whatmattered

wastheongoingtesting.Anyonewhotestedpositive,intermsof

thisbaselinething,wouldn'thavebeenaconcernofmine,other

thanthefactthatthenumberwaslarger.Whatwouldbeaconcern

ofmineistheongoingtesting.Thatwouldhavebeentheconcern.

So,noistheanswertothat.

BYMR.BUFFONE:

Q Didyougettheresultsofthebaselinetests?

A Idon'tbelieveIdid.IfIdid,Ididn'tlookatthem.

LikeIjustsaid,I

Mr.McDevitt.Sam,whenyousay"results"Imean,wego

backandforth,soIjustwanttobeclearwhetherwe'retalking,

like,86testedpositive,orwhateverthatnumberwas,or

individualnames.

Mr.Buffone.Thetotalresultsinthegeneralspeakingof
68

howmanytestedpositiveonbaselinetests.

Mr.McMahon.Iwastoldhowmanytestedpositive.

BYMR.BUFFONE:

Q Soyouweregiventhegeneralresultsofthebaseline

tests?

A IjustsaidIwastoldofthenumberofpositives.

Q Ijustwanteditclearfortherecord.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Anddidyouaskforanyofthespecificindividuals?

A No,Ididnot.Itwouldn'thavemattered,okay?It

wouldn'thavematteredtotheongoingdevelopmentofthispolicy.

That'swhatmatters,guys.Whetherornotitstartedthiswayor

didn'thereisthewayitstarted.Okay?So?

Q Doyourecalltheadoptionofawarningpolicygoverning

talentwhotestpositiveforaprohibiteddrugandthenprovidea

prescriptionthatisdeemednotmedicallyjustified?

A Damn,Ididn'tunderstandthatquestionatall.

Q Okay.Atalenttakesadrugtestunderthiswellness

policy,testspositiveforaprohibitedsubstance,andthenis

requiredtoproduceavalidprescription,ifthetalenthasa

validprescription,justifyingthatprohibitedsubstance.Isthat

correct?Areyoufollowingmesofar?

A No.IthinkIknowwhereyou'regoing.

Q Okay.

Mr.Cohen.MayI?
69

Mr.Leviss.Sure.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Theinformationyouprovidedtothecommitteecontained

testresults,positivetestresults,brokenintothreecategories

forwrestlerswhotestedpositivefollowingthebaselinetesting.

Youindicatedanumberofwrestlers,15inMarchof2006to

February2007,youindicatedthat15wrestlersweresuspended,

threewrestlersreceivedtherapeuticuseormedicaluse

exemptions,and12wrestlersreceivedwarnings.

Canyoudescribethecircumstancesunderwhichthose12

wrestlersreceivedwarnings?

Mr.McDevitt.You'rereadingfromthatlistDr.Blackgave

us?Whenyousay"you,"justsothatisthequantitative

informationthecommitteeaskedustogetfromDr.Blackandthat

cameokay.You'rebasicallyaskinghimwhatheknowsaboutthe

warningbusiness?

Mr.McMahon.That'swhatyouareasking.

Mr.McDevitt.Justgettothequestion.Weallknowwhywe

arehere.Askthequestion.

Mr.Leviss.Hetriedtogetthere.

Mr.McDevitt.Hedidn'ttrytogetthere.Hetriedtodance

everywherebut.AskhimabouthisconversationwithDr.Black,

forChrist'ssake.Comeon,quitdancing.

Mr.McMahon.Idon'thaveanythingtohide,guys.Just

shootmerightbetweentheeyes,okay?
70

So,inanyevent,yeah,Irecalltheconversationwith

Dr.Black.AndtheconversationwithDr.Blackwasoneinwhicha

numberofindividualshadstatedthattheyhadlegalprescriptions

forusingsteroids.AndDr.Blackhadstatedinthemeetingwe

hadonebigmeetinginWashington,D.C.,ironically,inwhich

Mr.Leviss.I'msmiling.

Mr.McMahon.Yes,youare.Thankyou.

InwhichDr.Blackstatedthatifyouhadalegal

prescriptionforadrugthatwaslistedhere,youknow,isonthe

substancelist,that,youknow,thatwouldbeokay.

Soanumberoftheperformerstookthatasmeaningthat,hey,

ifIhadalegalscriptfromaphysician,myphysician,thatwould

beokay.

SoincallingDr.Black,Istated,"Dr.Black,thisiswhat

yousaid,"andthenfurthermoresaid,"Now,you'vegottwo

choices,Dr.Black.AndthewayIwouldlookatitandI'm

finewithwhateveryourdecisionis.You'retheguy

administratingthis,notme.A,youcantelltheseguys,'Hey,

look,youmisinterpretedwhatIsaid,andscrewyou,you're

positive.'Or,B,youcansuggest,maybe,that,youknow,youget

awarningiftherewassomemisunderstanding,yougetwarningfor

this,andthen,ongoing,youclearlyunderstandDr.Black."

Dr.Black,himself,chosethewarningaspect,notthefirst

aspectof,"Ifyoumisunderstoodme,screwyouanyhow."Sothat

wasallthatwas,Dr.Black'sdecision.
71

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Doyouremember,didDr.Blackinitiallyrecommendthat

thosewrestlersbesuspended?

A Yes.

Q Hedid.Andwhatwashisrationaleforthat?

A Theytestedpositive.

Q Anddidhebelievethattherewassomethingwrongwith

theprescriptionsthatwereprovidedtohim?

A Idon'tknowwhetherhethoughttherewassomething

wrongwiththeprescriptionsprovided.You'retellingmethat

therewereacoupleofexceptions.Idon'tknowhisrationale

otherthanthefactthatthereseemedtobesomeconfusionby

talent,iswhatDr.Blackstatedinthemeeting.

Thatconfusion,obviously,wasclearedupveryquicklyby

Dr.Black.ItwasDr.Black'sdecisionthatinsteadofsaying,

"Well,ifyoumisunderstoodme,it'stoobad,"or,"Ifyou

misunderstoodme,hereisawarning,andgoingforwarditisvery

clearwhatImean."ThatwasDr.Black'sdecision.

Youhadtostartsomewhere,andiftherewassomesortof

misunderstandinganywhereinthepolicy,it'simportantto

straightenthatout.That'swhatDr.Blackdid.

Q Howwouldyoudescribethetoneofthatconversation?

A Thetoneofwhatconversation?

Q ThetoneofyourconversationwithDr.Black.

A Prettymuchlikethetoneofmyconversationnow."It's
72

uptoyou,Dr.Black,whichwayyouwanttogo."

Q Yourrecollectionisyoudidn'tadvocateforoneview

overanother,yousimplysuggestedtohimthathehadtwooptions?

A Absolutely.Anditwashisdecision.

Q Youpresentednoviewsregardingwhetherthosewrestlers

shouldorshouldnotbesuspended?

A Ithinkyoujustaskedmethatquestion,didn'tyou?

BYMR.BUFFONE:

Q Doyourecallwhoinitiatedthatconversation?

A Idid.

Q Doyourecallwhyyouinitiatedthatconversation?

A Yes,anumberofcomplaintsabouttheindividualswho

weresuspended,orabouttobe,Iguess.Theyhadbeennotified

byDr.Black,andtheyhadsomescripts.

Q AndhadtheybeennotifiedbyDr.Blackthattheir

prescriptionswereinvalidor,orunderhisjudgment,werenota

forlegitimatemedicalpurpose?

A Ican'tspeaktoDr.Black'sjudgment.AllIcanspeak

toissomedegreeofconfusionamongtalenthavingwhattheyfelt

tobealegalscriptascomparedtowhatDr.Blacksaidinthe

meetingortheintentofwhathesaid.SotheonlythingI'm

tryingtodoisclearthisupsothattalent,andDr.Blackfor

thatmatter,wouldmakesureeverybodyunderstandswhatthis

policyreallymeans.Thatisit.

LikeIsaid,allofthisisaworkinprogress.Whenyou
73

firstinstitutesomething,you'relikelytohavealittlebitof

confusiononewayortheother.Thiswasclearedupveryquickly.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Thecomplaintsthatcametoyou,Igatheratthatpoint

youobviouslybecameawareofsomeofthewrestlerswhohadtested

positiveandreceivedwarnings.

A Uhhuh.

Q Didyoubecomeawareatthetimeaboutanyoftheother

wrestlerswhohadtestedpositiveandreceivedwarnings?

A Imayhave.

Q Doyourememberifanyofthewrestlersthatyoubecame

awareofwereWWEchampionsortopWWEstars?

A Idon'tknowwhereyou'regoingwiththiseither,okay?

Oneindividualspecificallycametomeandsuggestedthata

numberofindividualswereverymuchinthesameboatthathewas,

whichpromptedmetomakethephonecalltoDr.Black.

Q Isthisanindividualyou'ddescribeasatoptalent?

A Middleoftheroad.

Q Notachampion,notatopofthecardtalent?

A Middleoftheroad,middlecardtalent.

Q Okay.

Mr.McDevitt.Thiswastalkedaboutyesterdayinthiswhole

timetableiswheneverDr.Andrewscamein,andhehadalistof

theprogramstoaddmedicalexpertise,backup,anyjudgmentsthat

Dr.Blackwasmakingthatthetalentwerenotpresentinga
74

legitimatemedicalscript.Thisistheevolutionoftheprogram.

Mr.Buffone.Justtoclarify,IthinkyoumeantDr.Rayand

notAndrews.

Mr.McDevitt.Dr.Ray.Well,heiswithDr.Andrews's

outfit,andheiscompletelyindependentfromBlack,completely

independentpartyintheevolutionoftheprogram.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q DuringthediscussionwithDr.Blackthatyou'vebeen

describinghere,didyoumentionatanypointthathecouldbe

removed"he"meaningDr.Blackasprogramadministrator?

A That'slaughable.No.

Q Okay.Didyoumentionthattheprogramcouldbemoved

toadifferentlab?

A No.

Q Didyoumentionanyotherrepercussionsthatcould

happenifhedidnotconcurwithyourrecommendations?

A Absolutelynot.

Q Okay.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Isthereaprovisioninthiswellnesspolicythat

specificallyallowedforwarningsinthesecircumstances?

A Idon'tthinkthereisnecessarilyanythingwrittenin

thispolicythatrelatestothat.

Again,IthinkI'vesaidthis,I'llsayitmaybeforthe

seventhoreighthtime:Youhavetobeginsomewhere.Okay?And
75

youneedtomakecertainthateveryonetotallyunderstandsthis

policy.That'sallthiswas,istheevolutionofthispolicy.

Anditcontinuestobeevolvedtothisdayandwillcontinuegoing

forward.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Okay.Well,let'stalkaboutwherewearewiththe

policytoday.Iunderstandthat30wrestlerstestedpositivein

2006and11in2007forsteroidsorillegaldrugs.

Mr.McDevitt.Wheredidthatcomefrom?Isthatfrom

Dr.Black?

Mr.Leviss.It'sfromDr.Black.

Mr.McDevitt.Ifyouwould,justgivehimthereference.

Mr.Leviss.Sure.

Mr.Cohen.ItisExhibit3.

[VinceMcMahonExhibitNo.3

wasmarkedforidentification.]

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q I'msorry.LetmejustidentifyitbeforeIhandit

over,sowehaveitintherecord.I'mhandingyoutwopagesthat

arebasenumberedWWE/OGR942and943.Andtheheadingatthetop

ofbothpagesis"Aegis.""ResponsetoCongressionalLetter

(Section3)."

Mr.McDevitt.I'msorry.Didyouhaveapendingquestion?

Whatwasthequestion?

BYMR.LEVISS:
76

Q Iwassayingthatweunderstandthat30wrestlerstested

positiveforsteroidsorillegaldrugsin2006and11in2007.

A Ifthat'swhatthedocumentsays,that'swhatitsays.

Q Okay.Areyousatisfiedwiththelevelofprogressin

theprogramatthispoint?

A Well,Iwouldliketohavenoonetestingpositive.

Thatwouldbe,Ithink,thegoal,nodifferentthananyoneelse

lookingatthisfromawellnessstandpoint.

Q Okay.Aretherestepsthatyou'retakingorthatyou

haveinmindtochangeorrefinethepolicytogetclosertothat

goal?

A Wow.IthinkI'vestated,now,thiswouldbetheeighth

orninthtimethatthisisanevolutionarypartofourprocess.

Andwetryanddotheverybestwecanwiththis.Wechangedita

numberoftimes.LikeI'vesaid,wearecontemplatingbringingon

anendocrinologist,apossibilityaswellofsomeonewithhead

trauma.Youknow,thereareallkindsofthingsthatwe'redoing.

Sothenatureofthispolicyistodoexactlywhatitwas

designedtodo:theoverallwellnessofourtalent.Let'sface

it,asagoodbusinessman,Idon'twanttalentthatisn'twell.

Theycan'tperform.Theycan'tperformattheirhighestlevel,

andtheywon'tbewithus.So,obviously,Iwanttalenttobe

healthy.NotwithstandingthefactthatIamahumanbeingand

wantotherhumanbeingstobehealthy,asidefromthat,I'magood

businessman.Iwantmytalenthealthy,becauseifthey're
77

healthy,theirclearlongevityismuchgreaterasintellectual

propertytothecompany.

So,yeah,youknow,Iwantthispolicytobeasgoodasit

possiblycanbe.

Q Andthatmeansnoonetestingpositive,ultimately?

A Well,Idon'tthinkyou'reevergoingtogettothat,

youknow,realisticallyspeaking.Butnonetheless,Ithinkthe

closerwecangettothezero,thebetteroffitisgoingtobe.

Q Okay.Thatseemsfair.

A Thatisprettymuchcommonsense.

Q TheAlbanydistrictattorney'sofficeintheSignature

Pharmacycaseidentified11wrestlerswhowereabusingsteroids.

Mr.McDevitt.Hedidn'tusetheword"abusing."Heusedthe

word"purchased."

Mr.Leviss.Theypurchased,excuseme.Thankyou.

Mr.McDevitt.That'sthewordheused.Hewasalittlebit

morepreciseinhisrhetoricthanyouare.

Mr.Leviss.I'mluckythatIhaveyoutohelpmewiththat

precision.

Mr.McDevitt.Youare.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q SotheAlbanyDAintheSignaturePharmacycase

identified11wrestlerswhohadpurchasedsteroidsorhumangrowth

hormoneandwereidentifiedbylawenforcementauthoritiesrather
78

thanbyWWEtesting.

A Right.

Mr.McDevitt.No,no,thatisnottrueeither,andIobject

toyousayingthat.

Mr.Leviss.WeretheyidentifiedbyWWEtesting?

Mr.McDevitt.Well,whydon'tyouestablishafoundationand

hewouldknowthat.Youstateditasafactinyourquestion.

Mr.Leviss.Mr.McMahon,weretheyidentifiedbyWWEtesting

beforethe

Mr.McDevitt.Establishafoundationastowhetherhe'dknow

that,counsel,beforeyouaskhimthequestion.

Mr.Leviss.Mr.McMahon,didWWEtestingidentifythese11

wrestlerspriortotheAlbanyDAidentifying

Mr.McDevitt.Thatdoesnotestablishafoundationof

knowledge.Doyounotknowhowtodothat?

Mr.Leviss.Areyouinstructingyourwitnessnottoanswer

thatquestion?

Mr.McDevitt.No,I'maskingyoutodotherightthingfora

change.Establishthefoundationofknowledgebeforeyouaskthe

witnessthequestion.DidyouaskDr.BlacktheDr.Blackdoes

thetesting.Hedoesn't.

Mr.Leviss.Mr.McDevitt,ifyouhaveavalidobjectionto

myquestion,youmaymakeit.

Mr.McDevitt.You'renotaskingquestions.You'regiving

speeches.
79

Mr.McMahon.Ihavenoideawhatthequestionisnow.

Mr.Leviss.Thequestionis,withrespecttothe11

wrestlerswhomtheAlbanyDA'sofficeidentifiedtoWWEashaving

purchasedsteroidsorhumangrowthhormonefromSignatureLab,had

WWEidentifiedanyofthese11wrestlersasusersunderits

wellnesspolicy?

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouknoweitherway,Vince,whether

Dr.Blackdetectedthedrugsthatthosepeoplepurchasedonthe

drugtest?Doyouknoweitherway?

Mr.McMahon.Well,letmejustgointowhereIthinkyou're

going.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Well,I'dpreferyoustartwithansweringthequestion

thatIasked.

A Idon'tcarewhatyouprefer.I'mgoingtoanswerthe

questionthewayIwanttoanswerthequestion,okay?That'swhat

I'mgoingtodo.

Somyunderstanding,myrecollection,okay,isofthese11

individualsidentifiedbytheAlbanyoutfit,myunderstandingis

that,ofthose11,twoofthosehadsomesortofinfractionwith

thetestingwithDr.Black.Butthatwas

Q Whatdoyoumeanbyinfraction?

A Testedpositiveforsomething.Okay?I'mnotcertain

whetherornotitwasaresultofthisSignaturePharmacythingor

not.Itmayhavebeen;Idon'tknow.
80

ButIthinktheimportantparthereandletmemakeavery

strongobjectiontoCongressmanWaxman'scommentsinthemedia,

whichconcernsmegreatly.CongressWaxmanI'llparaphrase

herebasicallysaidthat,sincetherewere11individualswho

werenowyou'refrowningagainsincetherewere11

individualsthatwereidentifiedbythisAlbanyoutfit,that,in

essence,insomewayI'mparaphrasingitprovesthattheWWE

wellnesspolicyisfullofcrap.

Mr.Cohen.Ineedtostatefortherecordthatthatisnot

whatCongressmanWaxmansaidinthatarticle.

Mr.McMahon.Well,then,yougoread

Mr.McDevitt.Hedidn'tsayfullofcrap,buthesaidit

didn'twork.

Mr.McMahon.Isaidparaphrasing.

Mr.Cohen.CongressmanWaxmancriticizedthepolicyinlight

ofthose11wrestlersbeingcaughtbylawenforcementratherthan

theWWEpolicy.

Mr.McMahon.AndIwouldsuggest

Mr.McDevitt.Hesaidmorethanthat.

Yeah,goahead.

Mr.McMahon.AndI'mtakinggreatoffensetothat,because

itsaystome,basically,thatthisissortofawitchhuntkind

oflikething.Youguysalreadyhavetheanswersbeforeyoueven

askmethequestions.IfCongressWaxmansaysthatwithouteven

havingtheopportunityofmetositdownhere,andotherpeople,
81

Dr.Blackorwhatever,Ithinkthatisstupid,okay?Thatis

outandoutstupid.

AndIresentthefactthat,youknow,someonewouldfryusin

thecourtofpublicopinionwithouthavingtheknowledgeofthe

knowledgeyou'renowgoingtogivehimbaseduponmytestimony,as

wellasothersinthecompany.Sowe'vealreadybeenfriedinthe

courtofpublicopinionbyCongressWaxman'scomments,andI

objecttothat.

Because,quitefrankly,asfarastestingisconcerned,I

wouldsuggestCongressWaxmanwouldlookatMarionJones,whohas

goldmedalsandthingsofthatnatureandthevaultedOlympictype

testing,andsomehowshenevertestedpositiveforanythingand

hasallthesegoldmedals.Andshejustadmittedthatshetook

performanceenhancingdrugs.Somanycaseslikethat.

Andthisinstance,asitrelatestotheseinfractions,there

areanumberofthingsgoingonhere.One,thereisnoproof,

quitefrankly,thatanyofthesepeopleactuallytookthedrugs

thattheypurchased.Thatisapossibility.Thereareother

possibilitiesaswell.

Sotobasicallystatethat,becauseofthesituationin

Albany,ourprogramisfullofcrap,Ijustthinkthatis

Mr.Cohen.And,fortherecord,CongressWaxmandidnot

statethat.

Mr.McDevitt.Whatwerehisexactwords,Brian?

Mr.Cohen.Idon'thavetheexactwordsinfrontofme,but
82

Icansaywith100percentconfidencethathisexactwordswere

notthattheprogramisfullofcrap.

Mr.McDevitt.Hedidn'tusethewords"fullofcrap."

Mr.Cohen.No,hedidn't.

Mr.McDevitt.That'spejorative.Buthedefinitelystated

itshowedthattheWWEprogramwasafailure.

AndI'dbewillingtobetyouthatCongressmanWaxman,nor

you,noryou,evenknowthedatesoftheSignaturepurchases.I

betyouhaven'tlinedthemupagainstthedrugteststhattheWWE

did.I'llbetyoudidn'tgothroughthemwithDr.Blacktoask

whatthedetectioncycleswere.AndI'llbetyoudidn'tdoany

homeworkatallbeforethatconclusionwasmade.Ibetyoustill

haven't.

Mr.Cohen.Mr.McMahon,youseemeagertoanswerthis

question,soI'llcomeoutandaskit.

Mr.McMahon.Well,again,tome

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Inyouropinion,doesthefactthat11wrestlerswere

suspendedfollowingthefactthattheirnamesweregiventoyouby

lawenforcementratherthanDr.Black,doyoubelievethat

representsafailureofthepolicy?

A Absolutelynot.Asamatteroffact,I'mstilllooking

forthatgoldstar,andthereasonIamisbecausewetookaction.

Youknow,theAlbanypeoplesaid,"Ifwegiveyounamesofpeople

whohavepurchasedfromthisSignaturePharmacy"which,bythe
83

way,isagainstthewellnesspolicy;youcan'tbuystufffrom

Internetpharmacies.Thereitisinblackandwhite.Itdoesn't

meantheyusedit.Itdoesn'tmeanthattheysomeofthem

purchasedthings,frommyunderstandingofhumangrowthhormone,

whichisundetected,okay?Itcan'tbedetectedinanybody's

test,letaloneours.

So,quitefrankly,Iwouldsuggestthatourpolicyisnot

infective,itisextremelyeffective,becausenotonlydidwetell

theAlbanyofficialswewouldtakeaction,onceweweregiven

thesenames,thenextdayIhadthoseindividualsinmyoffice.

Andeveryoneofthem,exceptforoneofthemthatwasnamed,

whichIdidn'tinterview,whichwasincorrectlynamedbythe

Albanypeoplebutasidefromthat,everysingleoneofthem

confessedthattheyhadpurchasedfromtheSignaturePharmacy.

That'saninfraction.Whetherornottheytheseusedthese

drugs,whetherornottheytookhumangrowthhormonewhichis

undetectable,Idon'tknow.

Butonthecontrary,Iwouldsuggesttoyou,certainly,far

morethananyotherprogramand,bytheway,theAlbanypeople

weren'tyouknow,theWWEperformersweren'ttheonlyones

named.Baseballwasnamed.And,again,thatisabigtopicof

today,obviously,yesterday.Noactionwastakenthereby

baseballuntil,youknow,lastweek.

Mr.McDevitt.Theydidn'tdoanything.

Mr.McMahon.That'strue.
84

Mr.McDevitt.Theydidn'tdoanythingforhalfofthem.

Justsowe'reontherecord,theMitchellreportwaswritten

yesterday,wasreleasedyesterday.You'llfindaroundpage238,

comparedtotheWWEresponsewhenwegotacall,wewentupand

talkedtoDavidSoares.ApparentlyMajorLeagueBaseballdidn't

evensendarepresentativeuptheretospeaktothem.Theycite

alltheirsourcesfromthenews.

Theyweretalkedtobythosepeoplebeforewewentupthere

becausetheytoldusthat,andyettheydidn'ttakeanyaction

untilDecember7th,whichwaslastFriday,nodoubtin

anticipationofthereport,anddidnothingforhalfofthose

people.Sowhileyouarefaultingus,youmightwanttotakeinto

accountwhatsportsleaguesdidinresponsetothisinformation.

Mr.Cohen.WehaveMajorLeagueBaseballcominginTuesday.

Mr.McDevitt.WhenyoucompareacorporateresponseI

mean,yourbossfaultedhimforImean,whentheinformation

comestoyou,youcandotwothings.Youcandonothingwithit,

oryoucanactonit.Youcanquestionwhetherthedrugtests

couldhavecaughtitorshouldhavecaughtit,orwhydon'tyou

evergivecreditfor,whentheinformationdoescometosomebody

andthecorporationacts,theygetsomecreditforit,insteadof

nogooddeedgoesunpunishedinthisbusiness.Hedidexactly

whatandifhehadn'thavedoneanything,youwould'vebeen

heresaying,"Whydidn'tyoudoanything?"

BYMR.LEVISS:
85

Q Mr.McMahon,amomentago,yousuggestedthatthe

committeeshouldlookattheOlympicsfor,youknow,theirfailure

todetectMarionJones'ssteroidsabuseuntilsheadmittedtoit.

DoyouthinkthatreflectsafailureoftheOlympictesting

program?

A Certainly,youknow,basedonWaxman'scriteria,itsure

ashellwould.

Q Byyourcriteriadoesit?

A Look,thereisnodrugtest,okay,thereisnopolicy

thatisfoolproof.Noneofthemarefoolproof.Yesalis,whoisa

recognizedexpertfromPennState,quotedTheNewYorkTimes,I

thinkitwasonTuesday,thatthosewhofaildrugtestsare

basicallycarelessorstupid,Ithink,paraphrasing.SoIdon't

thinkthereisanyprogramthatisfoolproof.

However,youknow,CongressWaxmanisandIwouldexpect

anapology,andIamgoingtoaskforone,justfortherecord,

fromCongressmanWaxmanyou'resmilingnowattheconclusion

ofallofthis,because,again,Idon'tthinkanyone,certainly

notsomeonewhoiselected,shouldmakeadeterminationofwhether

ornotapolicyiseffectiveornotwithouthavingallthefacts.

And,again,I'mextremelyproudofourpolicy,very,very

proudofit,asIamproudofourproductandeverythingthatwe

do.SoI'mgoingtoexpectanapologyfromCongressmanandI'm

certainlygoingtoaskforonepublicly.Iwantthatapology.It

isabsolutelyirresponsibleforaCongressmantostatethingsof
86

thatnaturewithouthavingthefacts.

Mr.Leviss.Icanhearthatyou'reupsetaboutthat.

Let'smaybemoveon.

Please,goahead.

BYMS.SAFAVIAN:

Q Mr.McMahon,priortoretainingnewtalentorplacing

themundercontract,doyourequirethemtoundergoanytestsfor

prohibiteddrugs?

A Yes,wedo,aswellascardiactesting.Theyareall

testedcominginnow,andwedon'tevensignthemupuntilthey

pastallofthesetests.

Q Soiftheyweretofailatest,wouldyouchecktosee

whetherornottheyhadalegitimateprescription?Ordoyounot

evenbothertogodownthatroadwiththem?

A Itdependsonwhattheyfailed.Generallyspeaking,if

theyfailedanysortoftest,thereisnoreasontobringthemon.

Imean,thereisaproliferationofprospectivetalentoutthere.

Iftheyfailedanything,whetheritisaheartproblemorwhatever

itmaybe,wewishthemluckandbringinsomebodyelse.So,

rightaway,wetesttalentbeforetheyevensignwithus.

Q Andyoumentionedjustafewminutesagothat,oncethe

11nameswerementionedtoyou,youactuallycalledthemallinto

youroffice.Ithinkyousaid,withtheexceptionofoneperson,

youspokewitheachoneofthem.

Whenyoulearntheresultsandyoulearnthatsomebodyhas
87

failedthetest,doyouspeakwitheachoneofthetalent?

A No,Idon't.Asamatteroffact,Dr.Blacknotifies

ourlegaldepartment,whothennotifiesourTalentRelations,and

actionistakenthere.Ireallyamremoved.

Inthiscase,itwassomewhatdifferent,becausewewere

askedwhetherornotweweregoingtotakeaction.Itreally

didn'tinvolveDr.Blackbecauseitwasn't,youknow,someonewho

hasflunkedatest,inessence.That'swhyIgotthoseguysin

thereandaskedthemindividuallywhetherornot,youknow,is

thiscorrect,didyoubuyfromthisInternetpharmacy?Andsome

ofthemImean,allofthemconfessedthattheyhad.Somesaid

theydidn'ttakethedrugsandthingsofthatnature,butthatis

justtoobadbecauseitisaninfractionofthepolicy.

Sowetookaction.Thenextday,youknow,weflewallof

theseguysinfromtheywereoff,sowhereveritistheir

residenceis,itdidn'tmatter,weflewtheminandhadthat

conversationwiththemandtookaction.

Q AnddidyouinitiatetheactionordidDr.Black,under

thepolicy?

A ThiswasnotDr.Black'spurview,inessence.Ididit

personally.

Dr.Blackwasverymuchinvolvedindiscussionsofwhatwe

weredoing,forsure.

Q Washepresentduringthemeetingyouhad?

A No,hewasn't,no.
88

Q Underthewellnesspolicy,thereareportionsinhere

whereyoutalkaboutwhenthereissubstanceabuseandhowthe

talentshouldgethelpforthat.

A Correct.

Q Andwe'vebeentoldbyMrs.McMahonthatyouallfront

thecostofsuchcounselingortreatment.

A Right.

Q Forinstanceslikethat,doyouhaveconversationswith

talentbeforetheyareabouttoreceivesuchtreatment?

A Me,personally?Probablynot.Youknow,Imay.

Butthetalentunderstandsthisprocess,that,youknow,if

theyitdepends.Iftheyvoluntarilyifsomeonecomesup

andsays,look,I'vegotaproblem,Iwanttovoluntarilygointo

somesortofdrugpreventionprogramorwhatever,then,again,

samething,wewouldfrontthecostofthat.Andthenatthe

conclusionofgraduation,inessence,wewouldthentakeouta

portionofahalfofthecostandasknotask,butdemandthe

talentpaytheotherhalf.

Butit'soveraperiodoftime.AndthereasonIliketodo

itoveraperiodoftimeisthereisadeductthere,sothatit

remindsthattalent,youknow,everytimetheygetapaycheck,

"Oh,that'sright.Iscrewedup.Idon'twanttodothatagain."

That'swhywedoitthatway.Otherwiseyoucouldjusttakeitin

onelumpsum.

Q Sure.AndIwouldalsoliketotrytounderstand,it
89

seemstomethatyouprobablydointeractwithtalentquiteoften.

A Yes.

Q SoIguessI'mtryingtogetafeelforhasthis

happenedorwouldtalentfeelcomfortablecomingtoyouandjust

discussingwithyouthattheyhave,say,asubstanceabuseproblem

orsometypeofother,youknow,medicalconditionorthey're

lookingforsomeassistanceorsomehelp?Doesthetalent,do

theyfeelliketheycancometoyoutodiscusssuchissues?

A I'msuretheydo.Idon'tknow,you'dhavetoaskthose

talentsthatquestion.ButI'vegotprettymuchanopendoor

policytoanybody.

Butasidefromthat,Ithinkthattalentgenerallynowit

woulddependonthetalent.But,generally,Ithinktheywouldgo

throughStephorJohnLaurinaitis,whoworksforSteph.AndI

thinkthatwouldbethewayitwouldgonow.

Mr.Leviss.Wehavebeenatitforabout2hours.Andwhile

Iappreciateyourlevelofstamina,we'regoingtotakeabouta

10minutebreak.

Mr.McMahon.Dowehaveto?Howmuchlongeristhisgoing

togoon?

Mr.Leviss.Partofwhatwe'regoingtofigureoutduring

thatbreakiswhetherthereismaterialinourpreparedquestions

thatmaybewecandispensewith.SoI'dprefertotalktomy

colleagues.

Mr.McMahon.Iunderstand.Youbet.
90

Mr.Leviss.Wecanlimititto5minutes.But,

realistically,everyoneisgoingtotake10minutes,whateverI

say.

Mr.McMahon.Allrighty.Thanks.

[Recess.]
91

RPTSMERCHANT

DCMNBURRELL

[4:08p.m.]

Mr.McDevitt.ThereissomethingIwouldliketonoteonthe

recordaboutsomeotherthingsthatwedidfollowingthemeeting

withSignaturethatyoudon'thaveonrecordbecauseyoudon't

knowhowthecompanyworksandwhodoeswhatandsomeofthose

thingsthatarenotdeliberate,buttheyoperatetocreatesortof

amisleadingimpression.Imean,forexample,oneofthethings

youhadaskedmewashowthepolicycontinuestoevolveandget

better.

IcanuseSignaturetogiveyoufurtherexamplesofhowit

worksintherealworld,nottheivorytowersofpeoplewhowant

tocriticizedrugprogramsbuttrytoimplementthem.Whenyou

getinformationlikeyoudofromSignaturePharmacy,oneofthe

thingswelearnfromlookingatthelistofsubstancesthatwere

beingpurchasedweresomesubstancesthatwedidn'tevenknowwhat

theywere,wedon'tevenknowwhattheyare.Andyouhavetodo

duediligence;whataretheybuying,whatisthis.AndI'msure

DavidBlackwillconfirmthisforyou.AndsowecalledDavid

Blackandsaiddowehaveanyideawhatthissubstanceisorwhy

anybodywouldeventakeit,andyouhavetoinvestigateit.And

youfindwaysthatpeoplearealwaystryingtogetanedgeinthe

drugworld.Theydo.That'spartofwhatyou'retryingto

detect,catchandprevent.Andasaresultofthattherewere
92

othersubstancesthatwenowaddtothebadsubstancelistwhenwe

findoutthattheyaretakingthingsthatcouldhaveadeleterious

effectontheirhealth.Andtherewereamendmentsmadetothe

prohibitedsubstancelistasaresultofwhatwelearnedfrom

goinguptovisitSignaturePharmacy.Wedidn'thaveanyidea

beforeasaresultofconversationsVincehadwithparticular

talent.

That'showthesethingsevolved.Youdon'tgetthatsenseby

thekindofquestionsyouaskbecauseyou'renotreallytryingto

findwhatarethegoodthingsthey'redoing,you'retryingto

criticize.AndIjustwantedtomakethatpartoftherecord.

Mr.Cohen.Anythingelseyouwanttosubmittousandtothe

committeewewillbemorethanhappytoaccept.

Mr.Leviss.Yes.Andifthere'smoreinformationthatyou

wanttoprovideusthatyouthinkwillgiveusamorecomplete

picture,wewelcomethat.Itakeissuewithyour

characterizationshereandelsewheretodayandyesterdayabout

whatitisthecommitteeistryingtodowiththisinvestigation.

Mr.McDevitt.David,I'vebeendoingthisfor27years.I

knowwhenaquestionisadversarialandIknowwhenit'stryingto

findoutfacts.We'renotheretofindoutfacts,we'rehereto

writeareport.Soweunderstandthedynamicofwhat'sgoingon.

Weunderstandthechairman'sprejudgedit,butwe'regoingalong

withitanyway.Solet'sjustcontinue.Ijustwantedtoput

thatontherecord.
93

Mr.Leviss.Jerry,I'msurethatweeachhaveopinionsof

eachother'slawyering,butI'mgoingtoaskyouasacourtesyto

stopcommentingonwhatyouthinkofmyapproachtoday.

Mr.McMahon.Well,letmecommentonit.I'vealreadysaid

Ifinditoffensive.IalreadysaidthatIfind,youknow,that

CongressmanWaxman'spointsofviewhavealreadydeterminedthis

isnotaverygoodpolicy.SoIsuspectthattheonlyreason

you'reheretodayandthereasonI'mheretodayistosubstantiate

thatbecauseyouguysworkforhim.SoIfindthiswholeprocess

tobeoffensiveasopposedtooneintermsofactuallydetermining

thefacts,notwithstandingtheprejudgmentoftheguyyouwork

for.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Ihearyousayingthat,andI'mnotsureIcanconvince

you

A Youcan't.

Q thatthat'snotthecase.Iwillaskyouthat.If

youthinktherearefactsthatweoughttohavethatwillclarify

thissituationorthisinvestigation,pleaseprovidethem.IfI'm

notaskingtherightquestionstogettothefactsthatyouthink

weoughttohave,Iwouldliketohearthem,whetherit'stodayor

insomefollowuptothecommittee.

A Thankyou.

Q You'rewelcome.Thankyou.

Ihaveaquestionaboutonespecificwrestler,ChrisBenoit.
94

Iknowthatthisisasensitivesubject,andI'mtryingtobevery

carefulabouthowthisquestionisframed.Mediareportshave

indicatedthatMr.BenoitmayhavetestedpositiveunderWWE's

testingprogram,testedpositiveforsteroids.Priorto

Mr.Benoit'sdeath,wereyouawareofanypositivetestresults

fromMr.Benoitunderthewellnessprogram?

Mr.McDevitt.Hangononeminute.Iwanttobeclearin

terminology.

Mr.Leviss.Sure.

Mr.McDevitt.Whenyou'reusingthephrase"positive,"David

Blackrunsadrugtest.Itwillshowthepresenceorabsenceofa

drug.Thatispositiveinasenseofitshowsthepresence,but

itisn'tapositivedrugtestresultinthesensethatitisn't

untilheconfirmsthatitwasnotmadeforalegitimatemedical

purpose.SoIjustIdon'twanttohaveaconfusingrecord

here.There'sabigdifferencebetweenthechemicalresultofa

drugtestandtheendconclusionoftheanalysisthatDr.Black

goesthroughtodeterminewhetherornotthiswasforalegitimate

medicalpurpose.Whatweusuallyget,andIthinktherecord

showsyouthis,whatwegetiswhenhegetsdonewiththe

conclusionoftheprocess.Sowhenyousaypositivetest,isthat

thesenseinwhichyoumeanthat?DidDr.BlackevertellVince

ordidVincelearnfromanybodythatDr.Blackdidtellthathe

haddeterminedthatChrisBenoithadapositivedrugtestinthe

sensethathewastakingmedicineforotherthanalegitimate
95

medicalpurpose?DoyouunderstandwhatI'msaying?

Mr.Leviss.Idounderstandyourclarification.Givemea

moment,please.

[Discussionofftherecord.]

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Inthatcaseitbecomestwoquestions.Thefirst

questionis,priortoMr.Benoit'sdeath,wereyouawareofany

positivetestresult,positiveinthesenseofdetectinga

substancethatthetestisusedtoscrutinize?Notaconclusion

aboutwhetherthatsubstancewasmedicallyjustified.Wereyou

awareofanypositivetestresultsthatMr.Benoithadunderthe

wellnessprogrampriortohisdeath?

A Ionlybecomeawareofpositivesoncetheyare

conclusionpositives.AndDr.Blackindependentlymakesthat

determination.That'swhenIamtoldthereisapositive.

Q That'sasamatterofcourseyou'resaying?

A Absolutelyasamatterofcourse,aswellasthe

specificperson.

Q Okay.SospecifictoMr.Benoit.That'swhatIwanted

toknow.PriortoMr.Benoit'sdeath,wereyouawareofany

positivetestresultsasreportedbyDr.Black?

I'msorry,letmejustmakethatlessconfusing.Priorto

Mr.Benoit'sdeath,hadDr.Blackadvisedyouthatanyof

Mr.Benoit'stestresultswerepositiveinDr.Black'sassessment?

A IthinkIjustansweredthatquestion,didn'tI?The
96

onlytimethatIgettestresultsthatarepositiveiswhenDr.

Blackhasconcludedthatthatisapositivetestresult.Inever

gotapositivetestresultonChrisBenoitinanymanner,ifthat

answersyourquestion.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Onefinalquestiononthis.Didyoueverreceive

priortoMr.Benoit'sdeath,didyoueverreceiveanyinformation

indicatingthathehadeverreceivedawarningoramedicaluse

exemptionfortheuseofsteroids?

A No.I'mnotinvolvedinthat,guys.Igettheend

result.Thisisindependent.Dr.Blackadministersit,okay,

independentofme,whichiswhatIstatedoneofthereasonswhyI

believethatthisisthebestpolicywe'veeverhad,andwould

suggestthatbaseballdothesamething,whichtheyhaven't.
97

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Ihaveafewquestionsforyouabouttwoofthe

amendmentstothepolicy.Andmaybeitmakessensetoshowyou

theamendmentsjustsothatyouunderstandwhatI'mtalkingabout.

A Absolutely.

Q I'mgoingtomarktheseasExhibits4and5.Thiscopy

hadahandwrittenmarkbyoneofusfromyesterday.Ijustputa

stickeronit.It'snotpartofthewayyouproducedit.

A Okay.

[McMahonExhibitNos.4and5

weremarkedforidentification.]

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Exhibit4thatImarkedhere,andI'llshowittoyouin

aminute,isthesecondamendmentdatedAugust21,2006toWorld

WrestlingEntertainment,Inc.'s2006substanceabuseanddrug

testingpolicy,datedFebruary27,2006.That'stheWellness

PolicyasIunderstandit.

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouwanthimtohavebothofthem,Dave?

Mr.Leviss.Iwasgoingtogivehimboth.Iwasgoingto

letyoureviewthat.I'llidentifyExhibit5aswell.It'sthe

thirdamendment,datedMay16,2007,againtoWorldWrestling

Entertainment,Inc.2006substanceabuseanddrugtestingpolicy

datedFebruary27,2006.

Mr.McMahon.Andwhatdoyouwanttoknowaboutthis?
98

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q AsIunderstandit,thesetwoamendmentsundercertain

circumstancesallowsuspendedwrestlers,oratthetimethatthey

wereineffect,allowedcertainsuspendedwrestlerstoappearon

televisionandinpaypervieweventswithoutpayorwithlimited

pay?

A Okay.

Q Isthatcorrect;ismyunderstandingofitcorrect?

A Yes.

Q Doyouknowhowofteneitherofthesetwosuspension

exemptionswereinvoked?

Mr.McDevitt.Objecttothat.

Mr.McMahon.That'snotanexemption.Whyisthisan

exemption?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Howoftenweretalentsallowedtoappearontelevision

oratpaypervieweventswitheitherlimitedpayorwithoutpay

followingapositivetestresult?

A Itdependsonthetalent.Itdependsonwheretheyare

inastoryline.Forinstance,whenwegottheAlbanyinformation

backwehadoneindividualwhowasachampionandIneededtoget

thatchampionshipbeltoffofthatindividual.Theonlywaytodo

thatistodoitontelevision.Therewassomeoneelsewhowas

involvedinarealhotangle,aswecallit,arealhotissue,

storyline,okay.Ihadtoresolvethat.Thereareanumberof
99

thingslikethat,whichisnotanexemptionunderanysetof

circumstances.We'reHollywood,we'reinshowbusiness,wewrite

scripts.SoIdon'twanttoleavesomethingunwritten.Ifyou're

inthemiddleofastoryline,youneedtoconcludethatas

quicklyaspossible.AndoncewestartedthiswholeWellness

PolicywithDr.BlackIexplainedthattohim;hey,look,someone

maytestpositivehere,butIneedtogetthosetestresultsback

andhaveanumberofdaystobeabletoconcludewhatthatstory

lineis.Sothat'swhatwedid.Thatstillexiststoday.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Thatdoesstillexisttoday?

A Ohyeah,absolutely.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Ithoughtthatthecurrentpolicyisthatawrestler

who'ssuspendedbecauseofapositivetestresultcannotappearon

televisionorpayperview?

A No.Theintenthereistoobviouslypunishthe

performer.Notpunishtheperformer,certainlynotrewardthe

performer.Soyou'resureashecknotrewardingtheperformeror

hischaracterizationbyfurtherputtinghimontelevisionand

havingthatpersonlooklessthanfavorable.Andit'simportant

toconcludeastory.There'snoadvantageifthat'swhere

you'regoing,there'snoadvantagetosomeoneappearingon

televisioneventhoughthey'vetestedpositiveatall.Because

whentheydoappearontelevisionand/orpayperview,thenthey
100

don'tlooktoofavorable.

Q Becausetheylosetheirbelt,isthatwhy?

A Well,yeah.Imeantheywilldo,quote,thehonorsas

wecallit.Youknowyouwillconcludeastoryline.And

generallyspeakinginconcludingastorylineyouknowsomeonewho

hastestedpositiveisnotgoingtothey'renotgoingtofare

well,they'renotgoingtowininthestoryline.Youneedto

concludethat,okay.Anditnormallytakesusaboutaweekto

concludesomeofthosestories.Now,ifyou'renotinvolvedina

storylinethenwedon'tputyouontelevision,period.

Mr.McDevitt.Givemeaminute.

[Discussionofftherecord.]

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q You'vehadachancetospeakwithMr.McDevitt.Is

thereanythingmorethatyouwanttoadd?

A Onlythatthedocumentspeaksforitself.Again,a

situationinwhichthereisaperformerandthestorylineneeds

tobeconcluded.Youknow,Idon'twanttorewardtheindividual

whohasfailedatestofsomekind.Theideaherewiththisnew

amendment,asofNovember1weareannouncingthepositivetest

results,whichwehaven'tdonebefore.Becausethepublicisthen

aware.Asamatteroffact,weevensentoutapressreleasefor

thelasttwowhotestedpositive.Theywerenotinvolvedina

storyline,okay.Theydidnotappearontelevision.Ifinfact,

okay,it'simportantthatsomeonewhotestspositive,whenthey
101

testpositiveweannouncewhichwehaven'trunintothatquite

frankly.Wehaven'trunintothesituation.Andagainthe

programisevolving,guys,okay.You'retryingtodosomesortof

gotchabullshit,okay.Buttheprogramisevolving.

Soquitefranklywehaven'tbeengiventhecircumstancesyet

inwhichsomeonehastestedpositive,weannouncedtothepublic

they'vetestedpositiveandbeenontelevision.Wehaven'thad

thatyet.Soquitefranklytheintentcertainlyisnottoput

themontelevisionandrewardthem.ButIdon'texactlyknowwhat

we'regoingtodoaboutthatifweareconfrontedwiththat.

Becauseitseemstomesomesortofalogicalfashionthatwe

shouldconcludeastoryline.Buttheideaofnotputtingthemon

televisiontorewardthemisimportant,andthat'sinessence,I

believe,whatthisissaying.Butwehaven'tbeenpresentedyet

withthatproblemof,okay,Vince,youannouncedsomeonehas

testedpositive,yetthey'reontelevisiononMondaynight.

Q Doyouhaveanyideahowoftenthesituationwe'vebeen

discussinghasoccurred,thissituationinwhichasuspended

wrestlerappearsontelevisionoronpayperviewwithoutpayor

withlimitedpay?

A Well,areyoureferringtosinceNovember1st?

Q SinceAugust21st.

A SinceAugust21st

Q 2006?

A Ahandful,ahandful.
102

Q Lessthan10doyouthink?

A Yeah.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Togiveyousomecontexthereandtohelpusunderstand,

theAegislabnumbersthatweregiventousshowthatpriorto

our,let'sseethroughJune30,2007therewere15

suspensionstherewere19suspensionsbetweenMarch1,'06and

June30,2007.Ofthose19what'syourbestestimateofthe

numberthatappearedinevents?

A Idon'tknow.Iwouldn'timagineitwouldbemanyat

all.Iwouldsayaboutfive.Again,noteverybody,youknow,

obviouslyisinvolvedinastoryline.

Idon'tknowwherethehellyouguysaregoingwiththisline

ofthinking,Ireallydon't.Youknow,I'mnotrewardinganyone.

Idon'tknowwhereyou'regoingwiththat.I'mresolvinganissue

ontelevision,andI'mdoingitveryquickly.I'mdoingitas

quicklyaswepossiblycan.Whensomeonetestedpositive,I'll

takeactionthenatthenextTVsoIcanresolvethatissue.If

infact,forinstance,wrestlerAtestspositiveandhewas

supposedtomeetwrestlerBoverhere,thenIneedtoresolvethat

sothatwrestlerA,whohassomesortofinfraction,doesn't

appearhisbest.Ineedtoeradicatethat,changethestoryline,

okay.

Andagainwe'redifferentthananybodyelse.We'renota

sport,emphasize,okay.It'snotlikebaseballorwhateverelse
103

itmaybeandyou'renotplaying,you'reoutfor14gamesor

whateveritmightbe.Thisisentertainment.Wearesodifferent

thansport.Weareentertainment.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Togiveussomecontexttohowthisishandled,ifyou

haveachampionwho,notsomeonewhotestspositiveforadrug,

butlet'ssayachampionpaintinghishousefallsoffaladderand

breakshisarm,howwouldyouhandlethatinthestoryline?

A Ifhebrokehisarm?

Q Yes.

A Inalllikelihooditwouldbeuptothetalent,but

inalllikelihoodtherewouldbesomesortofstoryabouthim

breakinghisarm,orsomeoneelse.Youknow,probablyhis

adversarybrokehisarm,butyethe'sgoingtobegallantenough

togooutthereanddefendhistalent.Hewouldtriponsomething

andlosehischampionshipifhebrokehisarm.Thatwould

probablybelogical.

Q Woulditbepossibletoincorporatethefactthata

wrestlertestspositiveandthenissuspendedintoastoryline?

A Woulditbepossible?

Q Yes.Couldyoutakecareoftheproblemthatway?

A Well,firstandforemost,intheentertainmentbusiness

Iguessanythingispossible.Butifyouhaveanumberof

suspensionsthathappentobeontelevision,Idon'tthinkIcan

comeupwiththesamestorylineforeachandeveryoneofthem.
104

Andquitefranklyforyoutoaskmeorsuggesttomewhatwedoin

ourbusiness,youknow,intermsofcreativeisabsurd.

Q I'mnotsuggesting.I'mtryingtounderstandwhatthe

possibilitiesareonthecreativeendofyourbusiness.

A Right.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q AfterNovember1st,likepriortoNovember1st,howdo

youannouncepositivetests?Youmentionedthat

A Wehaven'tannouncedanypositivetestpriorto

November1st.

Q Igotthesensefromyouranswerthatasof

November1st

Mr.McDevitt.AfterNovember.
105

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q IsaidafterNovember1sthowdoyouannouncepositive

tests,what'sthepolicy,what'stheproceduregoingtobe?

A Well,itmaychange.Theprocedurerightnowisthatwe

issueapressreleaseandwealsoputitonourInternetsite.

Mr.Leviss.That'sallwehaveontheamendments.Jennifer?

Ben?

Ms.Safavian.No,thankyou.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q TherehavebeenIguessoverthepastcoupleofyears

therehavebeenpublishedreportsorarticlessuggestingthat

fatalityratesforindividualswhoareorhavebeenprofessional

wrestlersareabovethenorm,whatwouldbeexpectedcomparing

professionalwrestlingtoprofessionalsports.AndIunderstand

it'snotasport.ButI'mexplainingtoyouwhatsomeofthese

reportshavesuggested.Andbywayofbackground,therewasa

March2004storyinUSATodaywiththeheadlineHighDeathRate

LingersBehindFunFacadeofProWrestling.Andinthestorythey

identified65formerprofessionalwrestlerswhohaddiedearly

between1997and2004.

Mr.McDevitt.Didtheyidentifythembyname?

Mr.Cohen.Theydidnot.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q AreyoufamiliarwiththestorythatI'mdescribing?
106

A Generally.

Q Thejournalist,awrestlingjournalist,DaveMeltzer,in

aJuly2007piececompiled

Mr.McDevitt.That'sanoxymoron.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q alistof60orover60formerprofessionalwrestlers

whoinhisassessmenthaddiedearly.Areyoufamiliarwith

A I'mnotfamiliarwithanythingDaveMeltzerwrites.

He'sagossipcolumnist.Idon'treadwhathehastowrite.Like

Isay,he'sadirtmonger.Thereareanumberofthose.Wecall

themdirtsheetsandtheyhaveverylittlecredibility.

BYMR.COHEN:

Q Whataboutsomeofhisworkreceivedcoverageina

numberofothermoremainstreamoutlets,forexample,Sports

Illustrated.IbelieveFrankDeforddidastoryontheMeltzer

numbers.Areyoufamiliarwiththat?

A Look,I'veborrowedoneofFrankDeford'sshoesone

night.Hedoesn'tlikeme.

Q Areyoufamiliarwithhisstory?

A No.OtherthanFrankDefordwrotesomethingderogatory.

But,youknow,hehasnosenseofhumorandhedoesn'tlikeme.

WewerebowlingonenightandIborrowedoneofhisshoesandhe

neverfoundit.Andsohehadtowalkhomeinabowlingshoeand

oneofhisothers,andhewasupsetaboutthatIunderstand.

Mr.Leviss.I'mgoingtohavetonotethatwouldbe
107

upsettingtoo.

Mr.O'Neil.Nowweknowtherestofthestory.

Mr.McDevitt.You'rehearingsomethingforthefirsttime,

too.Ineverheardthatone.

Mr.McMahon.Well,actuallyIalsoborrowedoneofhis

wife'sshoes,too.

Mr.McDevitt.That'sawholedifferentstory.

Mr.McMahon.Ileftthatpartout.

Mr.Leviss.Itakeitshewasnotyoursize.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q AreyoufamiliarwiththebookWrestlingBabylonbyIrv

Muchnick?

A Ineverreadit,butI'mfamiliarwithit.

Q Iunderstandthathepublishedalistof89former

professionalwrestlerswhoagainhecontendedhaddiedearly.

Haveyouheardofthat?

Mr.McDevitt.Ithinkthat'stheonehehadacoupleof

peopleonthelisttwice.

Mr.McMahon.No.

Mr.McDevitt.That'stheonehehadacoupleofpeopleon

thelisttwice.

Mr.Leviss.I'msorry?

Mr.McDevitt.That'stheonethathasthesamepeopleonthe

listtwice.That'sthequalityofhisjournalism.

Mr.Leviss.Okay.
108

Mr.McMahon.Whereareyougoingwiththis?Cuttothe

chase,willyou,please?

Mr.McDevitt.Whatdoyouwanttodowiththeselists?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Beforeyouwantedtoknowbeforeyourespondedtoan

opinion,youwantedtoknowwhereitwascomingfrom,andI'm

tryingtogiveyouanunderstandingofthat.Iwouldliketoknow

howyourespondtopublications,writersorauthorswhocontend

thatprofessionalwrestlersandformerprofessionalwrestlershave

anincreasedchanceofdyingearly.What'syouropinionofthat,

what'syourresponse?

A Myresponsetothatisifit'sonewrestlerit'sonetoo

many.

Q Okay.

A Okay.

Q ArethesehavetherebeenanydiscussionswithinWWE

managementabouthavingthecompanydetermineforitselfwhether

thisisanissuetoconsider,anissueworthpursuing?

A Well,letmejustsaythis,thatasacompanyyoucan't

verywelldictatetosomeonehowtheybehave.UltimatelyIthink

weareallashumanbeingsresponsibleforourownbehavior.The

onlythingweasacompanycandototryandhelpformer

performersistowhatwehavedoneistosayifanyoneyouknow

andnotjustthosethathaveworkedwithWWE,whichIthink

therearefiveoutofthelist,butcertainlyaminoritytosay
109

theleast,butnotjustthose.Whatwehavedoneyouknowisfrom

amagnanimousgestureisthatwehaveextendedtoanyonewhohas

everbeeninaringhereintheUnitedStatesorinNorthAmerica,

Ibelieve,thatifyouhaveaproblemasaresultofyour

lifestylethatyoucontinuedorpickeduporwhateverthecasemay

be,ifyouhaveaproblemthatrequiresintervention,aproblem

thatrequiresyougoingtoschool,inessencesomesortofadrug

program,wewouldpaynotjusthalfofit,aswedoforperformers

currentlyundercontract,wewouldpayforallofit.Thatis

unfortunatelytheonlythingthatwecando.Idon'tliketoread

aboutthesedeathsatall.Andsomeofthesepeoplewhohave

overdosedandthingsofthatnaturehavebeenfriendsofmine.

It'supsettingoneveryconceivablefront.Soasanot

necessarilyaresponsible,butIthinkIwouldliketothrowin

responsibleaswell,corporatememberofsociety,notwithstanding

againthefactI'mahumanbeing,Idon'tknowanythingelsewe

candootherthantoextendthatserviceorwhatevertosomeone

whomayhaveaproblem.

Q Doyouthinkthatprofessionalwrestlersandformer

professionalwrestlersfaceanyincreasedriskofprematuredeath

ascomparedtootherentertainers?

Mr.McDevitt.Howcouldherenderanopinionlikethat,

seriously?Doyouhaveanyideathekindofworkyouwouldhave

todotodrawameaningfulconclusionscientificallyaboutthat?

Mr.Leviss.Ihaven'taskedyouforascientificormedical
110

conclusion.I'maskingyouforyourpersonalopinion.

Mr.McDevitt.Itdoesn'tmeananythingunlessit'sthatkind

ofopinion.What'sthepointofthatkindofopinion,really?

He'shereasafactwitness.Ifyoulookatyouknowwhat'sso

unfairaboutthis,Dave.Iwouldassumeyouguysarenottrying

tobeunfair.TherearepeopleonthislistVince,for

example,haveyoueverheardofJavierHernandezinMexicoCity?

Mr.McMahon.No.

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouhaveanyknowledgeofwhythatman

died?

Mr.McMahon.No.

Mr.McDevitt.DoyouknowhaveyoueverheardofScott

"Hog"Irwin?

Mr.McMahon.No.

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouhaveanyknowledgeofhowthatman

died?

Mr.McMahon.No.

Mr.McDevitt.Imean,godownthislistlikethat.Now,I

coulddothesametoyouasyoucoulddotohim.Youhavenomore

ideawhythatmandiedthanhedoes.Andyetyouexpecthimto

haveanopinionaboutwhetherthisissomehowrelatedto

professionalwrestling.Mostofthesepeoplenevertouchedthe

WWEinanyway,andyetyouexpecthimtohaveopinionsonthat.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Doyouthinkit'sanissueworthyofyourtimeornot?
111

A Whatisanissue?

Q Whetherornotformerorcurrentprofessionalwrestlers

faceanincreasedriskofprematuredeaththanotherentertainers.

A Iwouldsuggesttoyouthatwearecertainlyconcerned

withourcurrentperformersundercontract,andthat'swhywehave

ourWellnessPolicy.Thosewhoarenotundercontracttous,

thosewhowereatonetimeandlongnotbeenundercontract,you

know,Idon'tbelieveourcompanyhasanyresponsibilityfortheir

behavior.Ithinkultimatelytheindividualsthemselvesare

responsiblefortheirindividualbehavior.Soagainasa

magnanimousgestureallwecandoisreachouttosomeofthose

formerguysandthepeopleIdon'tevenknowonthatlistand

don'tevenknowwhytheydied,peoplelikethat,toreachoutto

thathaveputonapairoftightsandcalledthemselvesa

professionalwrestler.Sothat'sallIcandoissay,hey,ifyou

haveaproblemwewouldbehappytohelpyouandpayforallof

it.Intermsofthingsofthepast,Ican'tcontrolthepast,

guys.Nobodycancontrolthepast.Thepastiswhatitis.What

Iamconcernedwith,however,isthepresent,whichiswhywehave

thisWellnessPolicy,tomakecertainthatourtalent,while

they'reundercontracttous,havegoodhabitsandcanperformat

theirhighestlevelandbewell.Thattomeismyresponsibility,

andIdon'ttakeitlightly.Ican'tbeheldresponsiblefor

deathsthathavenothingtodowithme.Iwon'tacceptthat.

Q Whatledyoutomake,youthecompany,tomakethe
112

magnanimousgestureofofferingcounselingservicestocurrentor

formeremployeesorcontractors?

A Twowords.Publicrelations.That'sit.Idonotfeel

anysenseofresponsibilityforanyoneofwhatevertheirageis

whohaspassedalongandhasbadhabitsandoverdosesfordrugs.

Sorry,Idon'tfeelanyresponsibilityforthat.Nonetheless,

that'swhywe'redoingit.Itisamagnanimousgesture.

Q Mr.McMahon,we'realmostfinishedtoday.Ihavea

finalsetofquestionstoaskthatwe'vegivencareful

considerationto.We'vegivencarefulconsiderationtoallof

thesequestions.

A Ihopeyouhave.

Q Butthatinparticular,becausewhileit'sashortset

ofquestionsthey'remorepersonalthansomeoftheother

questionswe'vebeenaskingtoday.Andwerecognizethatyoumay

notwanttoanswerthesequestions.Butwefeel,webelievethat

they'reimportantandrelevanttothisinvestigation,andthat's

whyI'mgoingtoaskthem.Weunderstandthatyou'vechosento

cometothisinterviewvoluntarily,thatyou'renothereunder

compulsion.Noonecanrequireyoutostayoranswerany

particularquestion.

Mr.McDevitt.What'sthequestion?

Mr.McMahon.Let'sgettothequestion,guys.

Mr.Leviss.ButIhopeyoudounderstandthatwedoconsider

thesetobeimportantquestionsandIhopeyou'llanswerthem.
113

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q It'smyunderstandingthatyouplayadualroleinWWE

asbothanexecutiveandseparatelyasWWEtalent?

A Yes.

Q Isthatcorrect?

WhatkindofrolesdoesyourcharacterMr.McMahonplay?

A Basicallyhe'saheel,abadguy.

Q Doesheeverwrestle?

A Onoccasion.

Q Howoften?

Mr.McDevitt.Whydon'tyouaskhimthequestion?

Mr.McMahon.Twiceayear.

Mr.McDevitt.Whydon'tyouaskhimthequestionyouwantto

askhim?

Mr.Leviss.We'regettingtothat.

Mr.McDevitt.No,you'renot,you'replaying.Weallknow

thequestionyouwanttoaskhim.Askhimthequestion.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q InyourroleasWWEtalentareyousubjecttothe

provisionsoftheWellnessPolicy?

A LetmeanswerwhereIthinkyou'regoing.Idonot

test.I'm62yearsold.TheWellnessPolicyisapolicydesigned

fortalentthat'sregularlyscheduledtocompete,whichImay

wrestleacoupletimesayear.Andnotonlynotregularly

scheduled,at62I'mnotexactlya24yearoldguyofwhichwe're
114

concernedforhiswellness.SoIdon'tfallinthecategory.

Q Soyou'renotsubjecttothetermsoftheWellness

Policy?

A No.

Q Andareyousubjecttotesting?

A IfI'mnotintheWellnessPolicy,thenI'mnotsubject

totesting,asIsaidbefore.I'mnotaregularlyscheduled

performer.InadditiontothatI'm62yearsold,not26.Andthe

WellnessPolicyisdesignedforthoseyoungcompetitorswho

competeonaregularbasis.

Q IstheWellnessPolicy

A I'mingoodhealthat62.

Q Itappearsthatyouare.IstheWellnessPolicyage

limitedbyitsownterms?

A Idon'tbelieveso,no.

Q HaveyoueverbeentestedundertheWellnessPolicy?

A No.

Q Haveyoueverbeentestedforsteroidsbyanyother

authorities?

A No.

Q Inyourtrial,inthetrialofDr.GeorgeZahorian,you

admittedtohavingusedsteroidsonatleastoneoccasion.

Mr.McDevitt.That'sfalse.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Youdidn'tadmittousingsteroids?
115

Mr.McDevitt.Hedidn'teventestifyinhistrial.He

didn'thavetotestifyinhistrial.Wewhippedthegovernment's

assin19dayswithoutputtingawitnesson.Getyourfacts

right.Hedidn'ttestifyinthetrial.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Isittruethatyourlawyerinthattrial,Ms.Laura

Brevetti,submittedthatyouhadreceivedsteroidsfromDr.

Zahorianforpersonaluse?

A Ibelieveso.

Mr.McDevitt.Adifferentquestion.Bytheway,doyoumean

totellme,Brian,thiswasyourlistofquestionsandthiswasso

importantthathehadtoprefaceallhiscommentsaboutthiswith

howimportantthiswasforthecommitteetoaskthesequestions,

yetit'snotonthatlist?AndI'msupposedtobelievethisis

allingoodfaith,huh?Youdidn'tthinkthosequestionsthathe

nowhasprefacedwassoimportanthewasgoingtoaskisnotso

importanttoputonthere?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Youdidadmittohaving

Mr.McDevitt.Waitaminute.Hasthisjustcomeupafter

this,Brian?

Mr.Cohen.Itdid.

Mr.McDevitt.Youlosteverybitofcredibilityyoueverhad

withmewiththatanswer,becauseIknowbetter.

Mr.Cohen.Itoldyouthatoveraweekago,oneweekbefore
116

theinterview.AndIindicatedatthetimethattheremaybe

otherissues.

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouhaveanyotherquestions?

Mr.Leviss.Ido.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Severalwitnessesthathavecontactedthecommitteeas

partoftheinvestigationhavesharedtheirperceptionthatyou

maybeusingsteroidsorotherperformanceenhancingdrugs.

Mr.McDevitt.Fine.Doyouhaveanotherquestion?We're

notcommentingonthat.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Severalwitnesseshavesharedtheirperceptionofthat

andtheyhavetoldusthatintheirviewthisperceptionweakens

theWellnessPolicybecauseitcreatesasensethatsteroidusein

theWWEistolerated.Mr.McMahon,haveyouusedsteroidssince

1996?

Mr.McDevitt.Stop.Doyouhaveanyotherquestions?Do

youhaveanyotherquestions?

Mr.Leviss.Soyou'reinstructinghimnottoanswer.

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouhaveanyotherquestions?

Mr.Leviss.Ido.

Mr.McDevitt.Idon'thavetoinstructhim.Theseare

voluntarily.

Mr.Leviss.Sure.

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouhaveanyotherquestions?
117

Mr.Leviss.Ido.

Mr.McDevitt.Whatarethey?

Mr.Leviss.Ishenotgoingtoanswerthatquestion?

Mr.McDevitt.I'mnotgoingtoallowyoutoharassthisman.

Howisthatpertinenttoanythingaboutwhetherthiswellness

programworks?Andyoucameinheretodayprofessingyouhavean

openmindandyou'retellingmethatyoudidn'thavethisinmind

whenyouwrotethislist?Bullshit.

Mr.Leviss.Ijustfinishedtellingyouthatthereare

witnesseswhohaveexpressedtothecommitteetheirperception

Mr.McDevitt.Idon'tcareaboutwhatyourunnamedwitnesses

havesaidaboutyourperception.Youcantakethemanddowith

themwhatyouwant.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Mr.McMahon,haveyouusedhumangrowthhormonesince

1996?

Mr.McDevitt.Doyouchoosetoanswerthosequestionsto

thesepeople,Vince?

Mr.McMahon.No.

Mr.McDevitt.Younowhaveyouranswer.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q You'rechoosingnottoanswerthequestionorareyou

saying,no,youhavenotusedit?

A I'mchoosingnottoanswerthequestion.

Q Haveyouusedanyotherperformanceenhancingdrugs
118

since1996?

A I'mrefusingtoanswerthequestion.

Q Itwasn'tcleartomeonthesteroidquestionwhether

Mr.McDevitt.Well,toobadifitwasn'tclear.Doyouhave

anyotherquestions?

Ms.Safavian.Wehavenotaskedfornamesofanyindividuals

inthisinvestigation.

Mr.McDevitt.No,notoneperson.

Ms.Safavian.Andwhatyou'redoingisIguesstryingtoget

aname.Iactuallydothinkthisisperhapsaninappropriateline

ofquestioning.

Mr.Leviss.Iappreciateyourviewonit,butwevettedthis

lineofquestions

Ms.Safavian.Withwho?

Mr.Leviss.andwebelievethatthisis.

Mr.McDevitt.Youvettedthislineofquestioningbutit

didn'tmakeitonthelist?

Ms.Safavian.Iwasn'tawareofit.

Mr.Leviss.Iunderstandthatyouobjecttoitbutthis

question,thislineofquestionsisalineofquestionsthat's

importanttous.

Mr.McDevitt.Whovettedthislineofquestioning?When?

Mr.Cohen.Itwasvettedinthecommittee.

Mr.McDevitt.Wasitpriortosendingthislist,Brian?

Mr.Despres.No,itwasnotvettedpriortosendingthat
119

list.

Mr.McDevitt.Anythingelse?

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Iwouldlikeittobeclear.Iaskedwhetheryou've

usedsteroidssince1996,andI'mnotclearwhetheryou're

choosingnottoanswerthatquestionornot?

A I'mnotansweringyourquestion.

Mr.Leviss.Okay.Thankyou.Anythingelse?Doyouhave

anythingelse?

Ms.Safavian.No,wedonot.

BYMR.LEVISS:

Q Okay.Thankyouforyourtime.Doyouhaveanything

else?

A Whoa,whoa,whoa.Youhaven'taskedmeokay.Again,

whatIwouldliketostatehereisthatthiscompanyputssmiles

onpeople'sfacesallovertheworld.Wedoitinaresponsible

manner.We'reapubliccompanyontheNewYorkStockExchange.

Wehavelotsoffun,bytheway,doingwhatwedo.It'sa

wonderfulcompany.Itentertainsmillionsofpeople.I'mvery

proudofourcompany.I'mveryproudofthewellnesspolicies

throughtheyearsthatweputintoplace,veryproudofeverything

thatwe'vedonetomakethisasaferenvironmentandtoenhance

theperformanceofallaroundperformersandtocreateabetter

product,whichwedoeveryconceivableday,trytocreateabetter

product.Ifeelasthoughthatthishasbeenacompletewitch
120

hunt,andIfeelasthoughdespitewhatyousaidearlier,Ithink

thereisnoquestioninmymind.Hopefullywhenthepublicreads

thisreporttheywillkeepinmind,andasbestaspossibleIwill

remindthemaswell,notthatitwillmatter,andasthemedia

goesthey'reonlygoingtowanttoprintwhattheywanttoprint.

ButIwillstateonceagainthatwhenthechairmanofthiswhole

thing,Waxman,determineswithoutanytestimonyheretodaythat

thiswellnessprogramisfullofcrap,mywordsnothis,that's

whathemeans,thenwecanonlyexpectyouguys,theminionswho

workforhim,mayonlyexpectthenthatyouwritesomesortof

reportthatsubstantiateshispointofview.AndagainIfindit

irresponsibleforaCongressmantostatesomethinglikethatprior

toallofthistestimony,totallyirresponsible.

Sofortherecord,Iamcertainthatwhateveritis,despite

allthewonderfulthingsthatwe'vedone,thatnooneelseinthe

historyofthisbusinesshaseverdone,despiteallofthat,

you'reheretoinsomewayattackus,wheninfacttheWellness

Policyisaverygoodpolicy,it'sonethathasevolvedandwill

continuetoevolveregardlessofwhatyouguyshavetosay.It

didn'ttakeanactofCongress,didn'ttakeWaxman,didn'ttake

themedia,didn'ttakeanybodyalongthoselinestotelluswhat

weshoulddofromaresponsiblestandpoint.We'vehadthreeof

theseprogramsthatweputintoplacevoluntarily.We're

concernedwhereourperformersareconcernedandgoodbusiness

people,bytheway,andwanttodogoodbusiness.Itdidn'ttake
121

anyofthatcraplikebaseballoranythingelse.Noonehadto

telluswhattodo.Wedidwhatwedidbecauseitwastheright

thingtodoforourbusiness.

Sotherearesomanyotherreallygoodthingswhichwe'lltry

togiveyouintermsofinformationyoudon'thavethatare

positives.Allofthishasbeenanattackonthecompany,allof

thishasbeenextraordinarilynegativetoday.Almosteverybitof

ithasbeenlet'stryandgetchaandit'sbeennegative,negative,

negative.

SoagainI'mnotexpectinganything,norshouldthepublic

expectanythingotherthansomesortofscathingreportfromyour

committeechairedbytheguywhoalreadyprejudgedus,Waxman.We

can'texpectanything,norcanthepublicexpectanythingother

thansomethingthat'srottencomingoutofthiscommittee.

AndIwanttosaythatfortherecord.Andthat'sallI've

gottosay.Haveaniceday.

Mr.Leviss.IthankyouforcominginandIthankyoufor

yourtime.

[Whereupon,at4:54p.m.,theinterviewwasconcluded.]
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CertificateofDeponent/Interviewee

Ihavereadtheforegoing____pages,whichcontainthe

correcttranscriptoftheanswersmadebymetothequestions

thereinrecorded.

_____________________________

WitnessName