Subnet 0

Difficulty with the Subnet Zero Concept
LovesNetworking - CCENT 191 posts since Apr 13, 2014

Difficulty with the Subnet Zero Concept Jun 1, 2014 4:12 PM
Hello everyone, I am almost ready to take the CCENT exam, but I am running into some problems with certain
subjects. One of them being Subnet Zero!
I understand that Subnet Zero involves making all Subnet bits into 0, but I don't understand the concept too
well. An example word problem I faced was something along the lines of this:
The figure shows an internetwork with IP addresses and default gateways for some devices. RIP-2 has been
configured correctly on all the routers, with autosummarization disabled, and the ip subnet zero command
configured on all routers. A design goal for this network is for all devices to be able to ping devices on
other LANs. Keeping that overall design goal in mind, which of the following statements are true about the
internetwork?
2015 Cisco and/or its affiliates. All Rights Reserved. Generated on 2015-05-24-07:00
This document is Cisco Public Information.
1
So based on this topology, What happens with ICMP Echo requests? I just want to know how it works.
Tags: icnd1, ccent, 100-101
Uttam 432 posts since Mar 27, 2011

Re: Difficulty with the Subnet Zero Concept Jun 1, 2014 4:24 PM
Hi,
2
If you intend to find out about IP subnet zero, this link is good
http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/docs/ip/dynamic-address-allocation-resolution/13711-40.html
and ICMP is all together different from IP SUBNET ZERO.
ICMP Echo request will be reachable from one host to all those which are known by the Routers(default
gateway of the host) or if not known, atleast have the connectivity to default route.
daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

IP subnet zero means that the first and last subnets can be used. It's on by default.
so normally if you tried to use 10.0.0.1 /16 this happens
R1(config)#interface gi1/0
R1(config-if)#ip address 10.0.0.1 255.255.0.0
But enter that same command without ip sub net zero enabled and this happens
R1(config)#no ip subnet-zero
R1(config)#interface gi1/0
R1(config-if)#ip address 10.0.0.1 255.255.0.0
Bad mask /16 for address 10.0.0.1
Kev
As the guys hinted...subnet 0 is not even an issue in this topology, since its running the default, which is ip
subnet zero.
As far as routing goes, all is good: *classless, *no auto, and *ip subnet zero default...barring other issues, there
is no problem here.

in response to Kev
it took me a while but yeah I totally see it. what's up with PC4?
3
Fabiola
Hi PulloDimo and all,
I think I've seen this scenario in WO's simlets questions. Have you checked the addressing and subnetting on
all subnets?

I just wasn't sure how I would answer the question based on the topology, none of the answers make sense to
me and I was wondering if someone could kindly explain it to me? What was the answer they are looking for?
A. When PC4 pings PC3, the ICMP Echo request passes over 2 zero subnets.
B. When PC3 pings PC1, the ICMP Echo request is discarded because a zero subnet is used in the route.
C. When PC3 pings PC4, the ICMP Echo request flows over a broadcast subnet.
D. When PC1 pings PC2, the ICMP Echo request is discarded because a zero subnet is used in the route.

in response to LovesNetworking - CCENT
Off the bat knowing what ip subnet zero does you can cross off 2 of the answers.

Don't read this until you've given up.
So here are your zero subnets in this topology (the network that you start from when counting by your magic
number)
PC1-R1 10.0.0.0 /13

R1-R2 192.168.5.0 /30
R1-R3 192.168.6.0 /24
R1-R4 192.168.7.0 /25
4
R2-PC2 10.0.0.0 /13

R3-PC3 10.0.0.0 /14
R4-PC4 172.30.0.0 /21
OK Now lets look at the first usable network for each one
PC1-R1 10.8.0.0 /13

R1-R2 192.168.5.4 /30
R1-R3 192.168.6.0 /24 not subneted
R1-R4 192.168.7.128 /25
R2-PC2 10.8.0.0 /13

R3-PC3 10.4.0.0 /14
R4-PC4 172.30.8.0 /21
Aright so in order to be in the zero subnet the subnet network has to be less than the first usable network
mentioned above. To check this try and use those IPs on an interface with the command no ip subnet zero
initiated. The ones that return bad mask are the ones that are in the zero subnet.
here are the network IDs and the broadcast
PC1-R1 10.56.0.0 /13

broadcast 10.63.255.255
R1-R2 192.168.5.0 /30 <--- part of a zero subnet

broadcast 168.5.3
R1-R3 192.168.6.0 /24

broadcast 192.168.6.255
R1-R4 192.168.7.128 /25

broadcast 192.168.7.255
5
R2-PC2 10.16.0.0 /13

broadcast 10.23.255.255
R3-PC3 10.0.0.0 /14 <--- part of a zero subnet

broadcast 10.3.255.255.255
R4-PC4 172.30.0.0 /21 <--- part of a zero subnet

broadcast 10.30.7.255
So now we know what links are part of zero subnets. You can follow the ping and see how many subnet zeros
are crossed.
so I'd choose A for sure
Now C looks tempting and maybe someone esle can help with this answer but
Notice how PC4 is sort of on the broadcast subnet
PC4 172.30.7.8
broadcast 172.30.7.255
So I'd also choose C but I'm really not 100 percent.
I hope all this is accurate, if not I'd welcome the input.
Paul Stewart - CCIE Security 7,582 posts since Jul 18, 2008
in response to daniel
Here's some information I put together about IP Subnet-zero a couple of years ago.
http://www.packetu.com/2011/11/14/the-ip-subnet-zero-command/
Kev
Hows it going Pullo? ...This is a tricky one.
6
Daniel, if you are wrong, we'll be wrong together, Ill go with a and c too.
(btw, the issue I thought I saw earlier was not an issue...it was my old blurry eyes)

Your answer is correct btw I'm just working on it on my own right now without trying to view your explanation
until I really need help. @Just plain old Kev, I'm doing whatever I can to solve it ROFL without glancing over
Daniel's excellent explanation.

Ok, I believe I understand the gists of the problem, I just wasn't very sure at first what a zero subnet was at first
until I read the documentation. All it is really is the first subnet in a series of subnets, this helped a great deal.
Reading comprehension seems to be a big deal on these exams, so I will have to make sure that I'm extremely
careful when reading the questions to maximise my score. Thanks for all your help gentlemen.
Kev
The practical point is, you will not likely get a question involving no ip subnet zero on the exam...its possible,
but highly unlikely.
But if they do, they will make clear that it is being used. They are not out to trick you. Anyway, a quick show
run can put your mind at rest...the info usually hangs out around the bottom of the outout.

I'm glad you get it. Another tip is on multiple choice questions, 2 answers are always (well 99% of the time)
clearly wrong. This is true for any type of test you take. You can save valuable time using this one weird trick
<---beware the link bait lol.
Anyway let's spend some time on why is c a correct answer?
The term broadcast subnet just sounds wrong to me. According to the document part of the problem was that
the first subnet would have the same network ID as the parent network and the last subnet would have the
7
same broadcast as the parent network. So if we were using the last subnet I'd be ok with the term broadcast
subnet.
Maybe I'm just over thinking it.

Thank you gentlemen.
Kev
you could call it that, but more often it was referred to as the "all ones" subnet
sarah 2,313 posts since Sep 12, 2013

Guys,
Subnet zero
192.168.7.0 - 11000000. 10101000. 00000111.00000000 -- > All zeros
192.168.7.127 - 11000000.10101000. 00000111.01111111 - - > All zeros
Last subnet
192.168.7.128/25 - 11000000.10101000.00000111. 10000000 - - > All 1's
192.168.7.255/255 - 11000000.10101000.00000111.11111111 - -> All 1's
I'm confused myself now. Correct me here....why is 192.168.7.128/25 not a broadcast/last/all-one's subnet?
And I'm not sure as to why 172.30.5.0/21 is being considered as the broadcast subnet.

in response to sarah
you're missing one important piece of the puzzle Sarah, the subnet mask.
8
Subnet zero
192.168.7.0 - 11000000. 10101000. 00000111.00000000
11111111. 11111111.11111111.10000000 <------------all the borrowed bits are zeros. this
makes it so the subnet network ID is the same as the unsubneted network ID
192.168.7.127 - 11000000.10101000. 00000111.01111111 <--------- all ones on the host side is a broadcast
11111111. 11111111.11111111.10000000
Last subnet
192.168.7.128/25 - 11000000.10101000.00000111. 10000000
11111111. 11111111.11111111.10000000 - - > same principle, all ones in the borrowed bits.
this is the all ones subnet. Using this subnet will make the broadcast the same as the unsubnetted broadcast.
192.168.7.255/255 - 11000000.10101000.00000111.11111111 - -> All 1's in the host is a broadcast
"I'm confused myself now. Correct me here....why is 192.168.7.128/25 not a broadcast/last/all-one's subnet?"
192.168.7.128 /25 is the all ones subnet.
"And I'm not sure as to why 172.30.5.0/21 is being considered as the broadcast subnet."
It's not. 172.30.7.0 is being considered the broadcast subnet

daniel,
"172.30.7.0 is being considered the broadcast subnet"--------------------or is 172.30.7.0 an ip address in

the subnet 172.30.0.0 - 172.30.7.255....? Isn't 172.30.0.0 a zero subnet and the 172.30.248.0 the all one's
subnet....?
again......
Subnet zero
192.168.7.0 - 11000000. 10101000. 00000111.00000000 -- > All zeros
9
192.168.7.127 - 11000000.10101000. 00000111.01111111 - - > All zeros
Last subnet
192.168.7.128/25 - 11000000.10101000.00000111. 10000000 - - > All 1's

192.168.7.255/255 - 11000000.10101000.00000111.11111111 - -> All 1's
I'm beyond confused now.....need one of the experts to clarify and explain the concept of subnet zero and all-
one's
Rick 504 posts since Nov 22, 2013

My choices are A and C. Is the answer made available yet? I don't see it if I didn't miss it.
For A, the subnet that 10.1.1.1/14 belongs to and the subnet that 172.30.5.5/21 belongs to are zero subnets.
For C, the subnet 192.168.7.128/25 is a broadcast subnet.
Rick 504 posts since Nov 22, 2013

Hi Sarah,
I think you're right That's how I understand it.

in response to Rick
Rick,
That's what I thought for the option C.
With a mask of 255.255.255.128 for the subnet 192.168.7.128 it would be a broadcast subnet, with the subnet
bit being "1".

in response to Rick
10
Rick,
Thank you for that.......though I'd need others to agree on the same for me to start believing in my subnetting
again....

If my understanding of the concept is right then A and C would be correct because......
Black - Network bits -- Pink - Subnet bits --Blue - Host bits
1st Zero subnet
172.30.5.5/21
Mask - 255.255.255.248
Subnet ID - 172.30.0.0 -
Binary - 10101100.00011110.00000000.00000000 - - > Subnets bits are all 0's, hence zero subnet
Broadcast ID - 172.30.7.255
Binary - 10101100.00011110.00000111.11111111 - -> Subnet bits are all 0's and broadcast ID having all host
bits set to "1"
2nd Zero subnet
10.1.1.1/14
Mask - 255.252.0.0
Subnet ID - 10.0.0.0
Binary - 00001010.00000000.00000000.00000000 - - > Subnet bits are all 0's, hence zero subnet
Broadcast ID - 10.3.255.255
Binary - 00001010.00000011.11111111.11111111 - - > Subnet bits are all 0's and broadcast ID having all host
bits set to "1"
Broadcast subnet
192.168.7.129/25
Mask - 255.255.255.128
Subet ID - 192.168.7.128
11
Binary - 11000000.10101000.00000111.10000000 - -> Subnets bits are all 1's, hence broadcast/all ones
subnet
Boadcast ID - 192.168.7.255
Binary - 11000000.10101000.00000111.11111111 - -> Subnet bits are all 1's and broadcast ID having all host
bits set to "1"
............prone to typos

Re: Difficulty with the Subnet Zero Concept Jun 3, 2014 4:07 AM
Wow I totally missed that. Yes I was wrong about 172.30.7.0. The ping does travel accros the .129 link and
that is a broadcast subnet. Thanks for clearing that up.
Carrie 623 posts since May 13, 2014

From what I understand, PC4 is on a different subnet. Because of that it has to flow through the broadcast
address because there isn't another option. Broadcast is your "ip of last resort", not to be confused with your
default gateway. Since PC4 is on another subnet than any of the others, it will use the broadcast address to
forward info.
I'm only in ICND1, so please don't listen to me very much. I just thought I would take a guess and maybe help
a little.

After reading everthing, and note that I'm a fish out of water here... Subnetting accurate now. (pun not
intended)
R1 and R4 share a special relationship. It's on its own subnet with R1.
Going back to the topology... 172.30.5.5/21 is 172.30.0.0 as a subnetwork. We move in 8's because the mask
is 255.255.248.0. First host is 172.30.0.1 last is 172.30.7.254. Broadcast is 172.30.7.255.
So, it sends a packet to R4, who forwards it as a broadcast packet from it's topology. 192.168.7.255. Since
R1 recognizes this as it's own broadcast address, it also forwards the packet as a broadcast. Only one subnet
ID was considered in sending data. 192.168.7.128
12
Not 2. So the correct answer is C. It broadcasts the data, because that's how R4 forwarded to R1 and further
on. If you can check, see if the tracert from PC4 to PC3's address is through is 192.168.7.255.

in response to Carrie
Carrie,
Just to rectify your broadcast concept a bit...... Broadcasts are non-routable traffic, they are not forwarded
between subnets.
---------"Because of that it has to flow through the broadcast address because there isn't another
option."--------That's technically an incorrect way of addressing the concept
I think what you mean here is a Layer 2 ARP broadcast. ARP process discovers the MAC address of the
default gateway, through layer 2 broadcast of all "ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff". It is send to the default gateway because the
destination happens to be a different subnet/network.
-------So, it sends a packet to R4, who forwards it as a broadcast packet from it's topology.
192.168.7.255. Since R1 recognizes this as it's own broadcast address, it also forwards the packet as a
broadcast. Only one subnet ID was considered in sending data. 192.168.7.128------
Again, technically incorrect way of understanding and addressing the concept
----Not 2. So the correct answer is C. It broadcasts the data, because that's how R4 forwarded to R1 and
further on.----
Again, its the ARP process that results in a layer 2 broadcast, in order to resolve the IP address to the MAC
address of the default gateway, in this case to retrieve the MAC address for R1
In regards to why option C was one of the right answers, the questions asks "When PC3 pings PC4, the
ICMP Echo request flows over a broadcast subnet."
.................. there is a huge difference between a "broadcast subnet" "broadcast address" "layer 2
broadcast". You seem to be mixing those concepts up
Here's a gist of the ARP process from one of my earlier post....
PC checks - - > Is the destination address in the same subnet as mine?
13
Yes - - > Send an arp(layer 2 broadcast) on the same LAN segment, to get the MAC for the device that
owns that IP address in the same LAN segment.
No - - >The destination is a remote subnet. So send an arp(Layer 2 broadcast) for the MAC address of
the default-gateway and use this MAC address to complete the Ethernet frame.
The source and destination IP which would stay consistent through out the journey till the end device.
The MAC address would be present in that Ethernet frame only till the next hop, because the Ethernet frames
is going to be stripped off at the next hop. At the next hop the frame is build again with the source of this->
next-hop and the destination MAC of its next-hop on an Ethernet interface (not applicable on serial interfaces,
because serial interface have only two ends so its obvious where to send frames. I cannot acknowledge other
possibilities here, because that's the extent of my knowledge.)
The source MAC is going to be replaced by the MAC of the device holding the packet now, and destination
MAC will be of that of the receiving device.
Here's the link to a slightly elaborated explanation....................https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/

message/394585#394585
Dmcneil 1,163 posts since Apr 26, 2010

PC4 is in the same subnet as R4s (assumed) ethernet interface. Double check your Sunetting.
A /21 cidr means 255.255.248.0 mask. The increment is 8. So the range of addresses is 172.30.0.0 -
172.30.7.255.

Have we really thoroughly explained the difference between Broadcast Address, Broadcast Subnet, and Zero
Subnet? I think this can clear up some confusion as well.
Broadcast Address is the last address on a network or subnet. So for 172.16.0.0, 172.16.255.255 is the last
address on that network. This address also has all 1s in the host portion of the address.
The Broadcast Subnet is the subnet of the classful network that contains the classful network's broadcast
address. For example. 172.16.0.0/24 means 172.16.255.0 would be the broadcast subnet because that subnet
contains the broadcast address of 172.16.0.0. This also means that the subnet portion of the address has all 1s
(or all ones subnet) and the host portion has all 1s.
Comparison: 172.16.0.0/16 Broadcast address would be 172.16.255.255
14
network subnet host
172.16.255.255 = 10101100.00010000.11111111.11111111
172.16.255.0 /24 broadcast address would be 172.16.255.255
172.16.255.255 = 10101100.00010000.11111111.11111111
See how the classful network broadcast address and the broadcast address for the 172.16.255.0/24 subnet are
the same. This is why the 172.16.255.0/24 subnet is called the broadcast subnet. Also notice that the subnet
bits are all 1s (the all 1s subnet).
With regards to the Zero subnet. Remember that the network address 172.16.0.0 has a classful mask of
255.255.0.0. The first address on the network sets all the host bits to zeros making it the Classful Network
Address (I feel it is much more clear to identify it as such instead of just saying network address especially
whenever just learning). If this is subnetted to 172.16.0.0/24 then the 172.16.0.0 - 172.16.0.255 range of
addresses contains the Classful Network Address.
network subnet host
172.16.0.0/16 = 10101100.00010000.00000000.00000000
172.16.0.0/24 = 10101100.00010000.00000000.00000000
Notice how the subnet 172.16.0.0 and the Classful Network Address have the same bit pattern. This means
that 172.16.0.0/24 is the Zero Subnet for the 172.16.0.0 Classful Network (/16 mask). This can also be
identified by have all Zeros in the Subnet portion of the IP Address.

You are almost there I think like Sarah said you may be confusing the ARP process with how routing decisions
are made.
R1 and R4 share a special relationship. It's on its own subnet with R1.
Yes they share the 192.168.7.128/25 subnet.
Going back to the topology... 172.30.5.5/21 is 172.30.0.0 as a subnetwork. We move in

8's because the mask is 255.255.248.0. First host is 172.30.0.1 last is 172.30.7.254.
Broadcast is 172.30.7.255.
15
Correct.
So, it sends a packet to R4, who forwards it as a broadcast packet from it's topology.
192.168.7.255. Since R1 recognizes this as it's own broadcast address, it also forwards the
packet as a broadcast.
This is where the train breaks down. When the PC4 sends a ping to PC3, It sends it as a unicast message to
R4. It arrives on R4's 172.30.5.5 interface. R4 sends it out of its 192.168.7.130 interface as unicast towards
R1's 192.168.7.129 interface. It is then sent across the 192.168.6.0/24 network to R3's 10.1.1.1/14 interface
where it then arrives at PC3. Routers do not forward broadcasts as Sarah explained.
Only one subnet ID was considered in sending data. 192.168.7.128 not 2.
This is a little tricky. The PC determines that the destination of the ping is not on its local network. So it sends it
to R4 as it's default gateway. R4 inspects its routing table and sends it to R1. R1 inspects its routing table and
forwards it to R3. R3 inspects its routing table and sends it to its attached network off its ethernet interface.
You are correct and saying only one network was considered the destination network (10.0.0.0/14). During
Routing the Source and Destination IP addresses do not change.
So the correct answer is C. It broadcasts the data, because that's how R4 forwarded to R1
and further on. If you can check, see if the tracert from PC4 to PC3's address is through is
192.168.7.255.
The answer is C but not for your reasoning. Answer C reads:

"When PC3 pings PC4, the ICMP Echo request flows over a broadcast subnet."
Saying the request flows over a broadcast subnet isn't the same as saying that R4 broadcasted the request
to R1. It means that one of the hops the request took is a broadcast subnet. The Broadcast Subnet is the
subnet of the classful network that contains the classful network's broadcast address.
Take a look at the network between R1 and R4. It is the 192.168.7.128/25 subnet. The classful network is
192.168.7.0/24 because it is a class C network.
What is the broadcast address of the 192.168.7.0 network? 192.168.7.255 correct?
Is this address included in the 192.168.7.128/25 subnet? Of course!
This is what makes the 192.168.7.128 a broadcast subnet, because it is the subnet that contains the broadcast
address for the classful network 192.168.7.0
16
If you examine the bits for 192.168.7.128 you'll notice that the subnet bits are all 1's (I won't rehash it because
Sarah did a good job showing that in a previous post). This is called the all 1's subnet.
Does this make sense?

in response to Dmcneil
dmcneil,
Very well written, I'm sure this would clear up the concepts for many others.

Carrie,
It would be quite overwhelming for you to grasp all the above concepts together at this point. If I was to break it
down, following concepts are involved in the OP. You should be covering and having a thorough understanding
of them in the below order
1. IP addressing
1. This would require you to have solid understanding of the binary.
2. Next you need to understand the difference between Classful and Classless addressing. This involves
the answer to the big question "why subnetting".
3. VLSM - You have to understand "why" we practice VLSM
4. If you comprehend the above all well enough, subnet zero concept should be a easy to understand.
5. You should be now able to differentiate between the broadcast subnet and the broadcast address
2. ARP - Understanding "why ARP" is a very fundamental and absolutely necessary concept to know for
networking
3. Routing - It's such a huge realm, I'm not really sure what to say here.......
There are many essential concepts I've missed listing out above.....my point though.... take it slow...one by
one.

17
Hi Sarah, Thanks again for your advice.

1. IP addressing
1. This would require you to have solid understanding of the binary.
-----------
Binary - It's been a while since you and I have talked about that. I do feel I have a very strong understanding
of this now, but please review below in case I'm wrong and confused again. I understand network bits, subnet
bits, and host bits. I know how to write numbers in binary, and to which portion they belong in.
For instance -
10.0.2.134 is a host address. The subnet is 10.0.2.0/24, The Broadcast address is 10.0.2.255, and this
particular address has a maximum of 254 hosts ranging from .1-254 in the last octet. However, the particular
address 10.0.2.134 is written in binary as
00001010 00000000 00000010 10010000

The first octet is fixed, the 2nd and 3rd are subnet, and the 4th octet is host in this example. (I didn't mean to
pick such an easy one, but what's a girl to do?)
The zero subnet is 10.0.0.0 and the subnet broadcast is 10.255.255.255
00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - Subnet Zero

00001010 11111111 11111111 11111111 - Subnet Broadcast
00001010 00000000 00000010 11111111 - 10.0.2.134's subnet broadcast address on /24
If we take this same address of 10.0.2.134 and change the subnet mask to /25, then the subnet is
10.0.2.128/25. The binary would still be...
00001010 00000000 00000010 10010000 but it would look like this in division of the subnet, and only have 126
hosts available.
00001010 00000000 00000010 10010000
The zero subnet is still 10.0.0.0 and the Broadcast subnet is now 10.255.255.255
00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - Subnet Zero

00001010 00000000 00000010 11111111 - 10.0.2.134's /25 particular subnet broadcast address
Now, let's say I have the host address of 10.0.2.68 with a subnet mask /25. In this case the subnet is
10.0.2.0/25, but the subnet zero and subnet broadcast will still be as stated above. The only difference is that
my actual subnet I'm using is now...
18
00001010 00000000 00000010 00000000
and my host in binary is...
00001010 00000000 00000010 01000100
The last available host is...
00001010 00000000 00000010 01111110
Because...
00001010 00000000 00000010 01111111
Would be that particular subnet's broadcast address.
However, if I use the address 10.0.0.0/8 or 10.0.0.0/16 respectively, this is what happens.
00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - 10.0.0.0/8

00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - 10.0.0.0/16
00001010 11111111 11111111 11111111 - 10.255.255.255 which is also subnet 10.255.0.0's broadcast
address
address
So the way we remedy this is to set the Broadcast Subnet to...
00001010 11111111 00000000 00000000

00001010 11111111 00000000 00000000
I seriously hope this is close. Please tell me where I went wrong.
Edited: I changed the last two binary numbers. Still probably isn't correct.
Message was edited by: Carrie

19
For instance -
10.0.2.134 is a host address. The subnet is 10.0.2.0/24, The Broadcast address is

10.0.2.255, and this particular address has a maximum of 254 hosts ranging from .1-254 in
the last octet. However, the particular address 10.0.2.134 is written in binary as
00001010 00000000 00000010 10010000
The first octet is fixed, the 2nd and 3rd are subnet, and the 4th octet is host in this example.
(I didn't mean to pick such an easy one, but what's a girl to do?)
The zero subnet is 10.0.0.0 and the subnet broadcast is 10.255.255.255
00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - Subnet Zero

00001010 00000000 00000010 11111111 - 10.0.2.134's subnet broadcast address on /24
I think you've got that part down well. I just want to be a little picky about terminology. Subnet Broadcast and
Broadcast Subnet mean different things.
For this example 10.0.2.255/24 would be the Subnet Broadcast Address for the 10.0.2.0/24 subnet like you
said.
Now 10.255.255.255/24 is special. It is the Subnet Broadcast Address for the 10.255.255.0/24 subnet.
The 10.255.255.0/24 subnet is also the Broadcast Subnet because it contains the broadcast address
for the Classful Network 10.0.0.0/8. Because of this, if you sent a broadcast to 10.255.255.255 the router
(using old IOS version) wouldn't kow if it was meant to all hosts on the 10.0.0.0/8 network or all hosts on the
10.255.255.0/24 subnetwork. This is why it was frowned upon to assign addresses from the Broadcast Subnet.
Now, let's say I have the host address of 10.0.2.68 with a subnet mask /25. In this case the
subnet is 10.0.2.0/25, but the subnet zero and subnet broadcast will still be as stated above.
The only difference is that my actual subnet I'm using is now...
00001010 00000000 00000010 00000000
00001010 00000000 00000010 01000100
00001010 00000000 00000010 01111110
20
Because...
00001010 00000000 00000010 01111111
Would be that particular subnet's broadcast address.
Ask yourself this: What is the Broadcast Subnet in this scenario. Remember it will be the subnet that contains
the broadcast address of the Classful Network (10.0.0.0/8). (HINT: it's not 10.255.255.0)
00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - 10.0.0.0/8

00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - 10.0.0.0/16
00001010 11111111 11111111 11111111 - 10.255.255.255 which is also subnet

10.255.0.0's broadcast address
00001010 11111111 11111111 11111111 - 10.255.255.255 which is also subnet
10.255.255.0's broadcast address
00001010 11111111 00000000 00000000

00001010 11111111 11111111 00000000
I seriously hope this is close. Please tell me where I went wrong.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain it a little more?

Carrie,
1. "10.0.2.134 is a host address. The subnet is 10.0.2.0/24, The Broadcast address is 10.0.2.255, and this
particular address has a maximum of 254 hosts"-------------Correct
2. "However, the particular address 10.0.2.134 is written in binary as 00001010 00000000 00000010
10010000"------------Wrong
The binary for 10.0.2.134 is 00001010.00000000.00000010.10000110. You just got the last octet wrong
21
3. "The first octet is fixed, the 2nd and 3rd are subnet, and the 4th octet is host in this example.------
Correct
4. "The zero subnet is 10.0.0.0 and the subnet broadcast is 10.255.255.255"------Wrong.
The broadcast address is all "1's" in the host portion of the address. Look at point 3, where you have
mentioned the 4th octet is reserved for the host bits. So it is 10.0.0.255
5. "00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - Subnet Zero" -----Correct

"00001010 11111111 11111111 11111111 - Subnet Broadcast" ------Wrong.
00001010.00000000.00000000.11111111
"00001010 00000000 00000010 11111111 - 10.0.2.134's subnet broadcast address on /24"-----Correct
6. If we take this same address of 10.0.2.134 and change the subnet mask to /25, then the subnet is
10.0.2.128/25."-----Correct
"The binary would still be...00001010 00000000 00000010 10010000 but it would look like this
in division of the subnet, and only have 126 hosts available."------------Wrong.
The binary for the IP address would be "00001010.00000000.00000010.10000110" and the binary for the
subnet ID would be "00001010.00000000.00000010.10000000", with 126 addresses for hosts.
7. "The zero subnet is still 10.0.0.0 and the Broadcast subnet is now 10.255.255.255"---------Wrong.The
zero subnet would be 10.0.2.0.
" 00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - Subnet Zero"----Wrong. For 10.0.2.0 the binary
would be "00001010.00000000.00000010.00000000"...look at the subnet bit which is "0", so that's the zero
subnet
"00001010 11111111 11111111 11111111 - Subnet Broadcast"----Wrong.
The broadcast for the zero subnet is 10.0.2.127 in binary "00001010.00000000.00000010.01111111",

because the broadcast is all "1's" in the host portion
" 00001010 00000000 00000010 11111111 - 10.0.2.134's /25 particular subnet broadcast
address"----Correct
8. "Now, let's say I have the host address of 10.0.2.68 with a subnet mask /25. In this case the subnet is
10.0.2.0/25, but the subnet zero and subnet broadcast will still be as stated above. The only difference is that
my actual subnet I'm using is now...
00001010 00000000 00000010 00000000
22
00001010 00000000 00000010 01000100
00001010 00000000 00000010 01111110
Because...
00001010 00000000 00000010 01111111
Would be that particular subnet's broadcast address"----------Correct
9.
00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - 10.0.0.0/8 ----> This is a Classful address, Class A. Hence
nnnnnnnn.hhhhhhhh.hhhhhhhh.hhhhhhhh.
00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 - 10.0.0.0/16----> Class A is subnetted, resulting in
nnnnnnnn.ssssssss.hhhhhhhh.hhhhhhhh
"00001010 11111111 11111111 11111111 - 10.255.255.255 which is also subnet 10.255.0.0's broadcast
address"---Since its a classful address, there are no subnets, just that one broadcast address for the network
10.0.0.0
"
address"-----Wrong. With the binary of 00001010 00000000 00000000 00000000 for 10.0.0.0/16, the last
subnet is 10.255.0.0 with the broadcast 10.255.255.255
00001010 11111111 00000000 00000000

00001010 11111111 11111111 00000000
There is no remedy, so I'm just going to strike it out.
............This involved a lot of calculations hence definitely prone to errors. So I'm going to post it and then
check for any miscalculations/errors.
23

I'm saying the exact same thing y'all are, but I'm using the wrong terminology. My binary is right, my
understanding of subnets and addressing, broadcast, zeros, etc. are all the same aside from a couple of typos
(128 should be 127 on a line and binary in one is incorrect). Argggg... This is just weird.

Carrie,
Please go with dmcneil answer for the "broadcast subnet" part of it. Because my answer reflects "subnet
broadcast" for the zero subnet and not the "broadcast subnet". Use of the right terminology makes a
difference.

So, it's really that specific?
Okay, so only if you don't subnet and use a classless address of 10.0.0.0/8 would you run into this issue? Or
do you also run into it when you use a subnet zero of 10.0.0.0/16? /24?

Hey Carrie,
Off the top of my head there are two main reasons why the terminology is important.
1) If you're on a job or job interview and you tell them "I'm going to avoid using the subnet broadcast to avoid
confusion with our older classful network that is still in production." They are going to look at you funny and
question your skill.
For example here at work it erks me when people refer to the tiny 4 port and 8 port netgear switches we use
once in a while as hubs. I say "hey Charlie pass me the 4 port switch," then Charlie replies," you mean the
hub?" I then have to school Charlie on why referring to a switch as a hub is just plain wrong.
24
2) The cisco tests are very tricky and they will purposely use terminology like broadcast subnet and stuff like
that expecting you to know the difference.
example:
What is the broadcast subnet of 172.50.0.0/25 ?

what is the subnet broadcast of 172.50.0.0/25 ?
2 very different answers.

It sounds like we're just being picky but it is extremely important. One refers to part of the addressing space
and the other refers to the whole addressing space. That is why you are warned against it on the CCNA exams
(although its current relevance can be questioned).
It's also important because one term refers to an entire block of addresses while the other refers to a single
address.
Broadcast Address - the last address on a network or subnetwork. This address sets all the bits in the host
portion of the IP Address to binary 1's. Packets sent to this address are flooded throughout the entire network.
Broadcast Subnet - the entire subnetwork of the classful network space that includes the broadcast address
of the classful network. example: 10.0.0.0/16. The 10.255.255.0 network would be the broadcast subnet
because it includes the broadcast address for the 10.0.0.0/8 network.
Subnet Broadcast Address - this is what is meant when people shorten it to subnet broadcast. It's really a
single address. It is the all 1's address on a particular subnet. back to the 10.0.0.0/16 example. For network
10.1.1.0/16, 10.1.1.255 is the subnet broadcast address. Packets sent to this address will be forwarded
throughout the 10.1.1.0/16 network.
Okay, so only if you don't subnet and use a classless address of 10.0.0.0/8 would you run
into this issue? Or do you also run into it when you use a subnet zero of 10.0.0.0/16? /24?
You run into this problem anytime you create smaller networks out of a larger network. If you do not use VLSM
and simply keep 10.0.0.0/8 for your entire network then you will not have to worry about it. but then you are
potentially wasting a ton of addresses. (or your network would be saturated with broadcasts).
25
Think of it like a neighborhood (stay with me on this I think it will help out). This is the 10.0.0.0/8 neighborhood.
This neighborhood has tons of different streets. Each street acting like it's own neighborhood.
The postage carrier has the job of making sure all the mail gets to where it's supposed to go. Some messages
are destined for all house in certain neighborhoods and some go to a certain number house in the main
neighborhood.
If a message is supposed to go to 10.0.0.3/16 street how does the postage man know it's not meant for
the third house in the entire 10.0.0.0 neighborhood or just the third house in the 10.0.0.0/16 street. It's very
ambiguous.
Another package comes it's addressed to 10.1.1.255. The postage man carrier knows this package is for every
house in the 10.1.1.0/16 street inside the 10.0.0.0/8 neighborhood. There is no ambiguity there.
The last package comes addressed to 10.255.255.255. How does the postage carrier know if he's supposed to
send it to all of the houses in the 10.0.0.0/8 neighborhood or just the 10.255.255.0/16 street?
Routers have the same problem if a packet is addressed to 10.0.0.X they (with old code) have no idea where to
send the package. If they send it to 10.255.255.255 does it go to all hosts on the 10.0.0.0/8 network or just all
hosts on a subnet within that network.

This why I wish I could show a time of my post.
---
What is the broadcast subnet of 172.50.0.0/25 ?
172.50.255.128
what is the subnet broadcast of 172.50.0.0/25 ?
172.50.0.127

Because 4 port is the hub, physical 2 port? 2 LAN criss-cross? and the 8 is a switch enabled with networking,
so it's beyond physical interfacing?
26
P.S. How can you possibly pass those things about anyhow? Wouldn't *THAT* be cumbersome? These are
devices.

Easy answer is a hub is a layer 1 device, a switch is a layer 2 device. both the 4 port and the 8 ports were
switches. hubs are almost never used anywhere...ever!!.
My coworkers were calling them hubs because they were small compared to a huge catalyst.

I think you've got it!
just remember subnet broadcast can also he subnet broadcast address.
trust me as you go further down the road getting these things straight now will save so much trouble.

This might be a good time to tell you that I'm in Chap. 18 of ICND1, which is why I said I'm a fish out of water
here. So, I'm playing astronaut goldfish and learning this part to understand the previous. Sounds crazy, but it
works. It's how I learned subnetting.
I don't care for the confusion in engineering massive classful addresses because everyone seems to have a
preference. They either subnet from the top or from the bottom. I know I'll get kickback for saying this, but y'all
know I'm telling the truth. Some examples want you to cram your subnet host opportunities in the least amount
of waste, the most reasonable amount of growth, or the most amount of opportunity. I can do all three, but this
is where this kind of next level understanding is beyond me.
As far as the address... That is helpful. Depending on the type of road the house is on, the street values will
vary. Streets generally change up at a cross street. Blvds by distance, cudlessacs are numerical exactly...
I promise I get this. It's just hard for me to explain it, which is why I'm concerned about the exam. I know that
the exam is based on ridged structures. For the record? I also know that all the examples used in the books
are personal IP's that would never be in a major business environment. (10, 128, 172, 192...) Unique IPs for
business will/should carry a different network ID. That said, it doesn't help me get my CCENT.
27

P.S
"f a message is supposed to go to 10.0.0.3/16 street how does the postage man know it's not meant for
ambiguous."
What I know is that it's the 3rd house in the block of 10.0.0.0 with the zip of 255.255.0.0 I could find it. It's my
first neighborhood out of 256 neighborhoods, with over... 65K houses in each neighborhood. This one is the
third house in the zip of 10.0.0.0/16. Look to your South or West since it's an odd number.

Carrie,
"I also know that all the examples used in the books are personal IP's that would never be in a major business
environment. (10, 128, 172, 192...)"
Even as conversational terms, these IP addresses should be referred to as "private addresses".
"f a message is supposed to go to 10.0.0.3/16 street how does the postage man know it's not meant for
ambiguous."
If the router has to decide between two prefixes of the same network, it will choose the one with the longer
mask.The network entry in the routing table that has the longest match, leading bits will be used.
If you want to send packets to the host with an IP of 192.168.1.1 and the routing table show these entries
192.0.0.0/8 - fa0/1 , 192.168.0.0/16 - fa0/2, 192.168.1.0/24 - fa0/3
Here the longest and most specific match is the /24 network. So the packet for the 192.168.1.1 will take the
path through fa0/3.

This is true...but for sake of argument the router doesn't know
Also, from a logical sense it's hard to say to where the packet was destined. The two ways are vastly different. I
think it's a bit more apparent when talking about broadcasts though.
28

Carrie,
The router has a map. If a destination is not on its map then it either drops the packet or it sends it out it's
gateway of last resort. Sarah mentioned matching IPs, 0.0.0.0 with a mask of 0.0.0.0 is a match for all ipv4
addresses.
One thing I've never understood was that if an ipv4 packet has only spave for 2 addresses (a source and a
destination ) how does the default gateway IP fit in there when a packet needs to be forwarded to the router?
Since the gateway's IP is resolved does it just send it to that Mac address and calls it a day?

daniel,
"One thing I've never understood was that if an ipv4 packet has only spave for 2 addresses (a source and a
destination ) how does the default gateway IP fit in there when a packet needs to be forwarded to the router?
Since the gateway's IP is resolved does it just send it to that Mac address and calls it a day?"
I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correct.
1. I'm guessing you are talking about the IP packet header.

2. Yes, the IP packet header has a source and destination ip address field.
3. The source and destination IP addres do not change at all throughout the journey.
4. It is the Layer 2 frame that is being rebuild at each hop
5. Lets say PC1 and PC2 on two different networks
6. PC1 will have to go through is default gateway to reach PC2
7. PC1 has the IP address of default gateway, but has to resolve the IP address of the default gateway to
the MAC address and then it can build the frame accordingly. The frame has a Layer 2 source MAC address
field and destination MAC address field, in this case it needs to be filled with the source MAC of PC1 and
destination MAC of the default gateway
8. So happens the ARP process. PC1 gets the MAC address of the default gateway, and build the frame, with
source/destination MAC address and source/destination IP address.
9.The MAC address would be present in that ethernet frame only till the next hop, because the Ethernet frames
is going to be stripped off at the next hop. At the next hop the frame is build again with the source of this->
next-hop and the destination MAC of its next-hop on an ethernet interface (not applicable on serial interfaces,
because serial interface have only two ends so its obvious where to send frames.)
This is from one of my earlier posts....
29
1. PC1 checks its ARP cache to find the MAC address of the destination PC. Hence the frame is built
accordingly, with source/destination MAC address and source/destination IP address. (you have provided the
destination address when you type in the URL)
2. If the ARP cache of PC1 does not list the MAC address, PC1 ARPs for the MAC address of the destination
PC....remember here....PC1 has the IP address of the destination that it will use to ARP for its MAC.
3. To get the MAC address, the switch will flood the frame it received from PC1....out all its ports, except the
one it received from PC1.....and then the intended recipient responds back acknowledging the ARP request by
replying with its own MAC address information.
Now the switch adds the MAC address of the returning frame to its MAC table. It already has the MAC address
of PC1, for which this returning frame is destined, hence forwards it out the ethernet port PC1 is attached to.
If the destination is in a different subnet/network....
1. PC1 will send an ARP request for the default gateway.
2. Switch receives the frame.....switch checks its MAC address table.
3. Scenario 1 - Is the exit interface for the default gateway is listed in its MAC address table - -> yes .....switch
will send the frame out that port to the default gateway
Scenario 2 - If the exit interface is not listed in the MAC table of the switch, then the switch will floods
that frame out all it ports except the incoming interface.....and then the intended recipient responds back
acknowledging the ARP request by replying with its own MAC address information.
Now the switch adds the MAC address of the returning frame to its MAC table. It already has the MAC address
of PC1, for which this returning frame is destined, hence forwards it out the ethernet port PC1 is attached to.
Now the router will forward it out the interface that indicates connectivity towards the destination PC2
Please excuse me if I have misinterpreted your question

Okay. So... Still using the house, neighborhood, and now adding a city example...
(Go with me here, because this will be an odd example that isn't exactly how the real post office does things.)
Let's say PC1 has a certain ip address (address), with a certain "zip code" (mask), and the Mac address would
be like the "Name" of the certain person who lives at that address.
30
The same is true for PC2, BUT PC2 lives in a completely different "city" (network). THIS is where the ARP
cache is used by the switch which is basically a big "post office sorting center".
Two senarios will happen at the switch. This switch will look at the ip address and the MAC address on the
packet from PC1 to PC2, which is to "To:" portion of the envelope and see it's addressed to PC2 "From:" PC1.
The switch will look in it's ARP cache to see if it has that address in it's database. If it does, then the packet will
go to PC2.
The second senario... Say PC2 is a "new house" with a "new address", "new owners", etc. In this case, (this is
where it's not exactly how the real post office does things because it would be impossible) the switch wouldn't
have that person's name and address in the ARP cache. So the switch would send a request to EVERY house
in that city asking who's house this address and mac belongs to. Only PC2 will respond back saying "this is my
house and that mac is me". At that point, the switch adds PC2's address and mac to the ARP cache for future
knowledge. It's doesn't have to add PC1's information because it already has that info from when it received
the packet at the switch because PC1's info was listed on the "From:" part of the envelope.
Also, the default gateway is kind of like the local post offices that don't sort the mail and just forward the
packets to the address that the switch has already pre-sorted where it goes to. Are default gateways usually
routers or servers? One or the other? Only routers?
I know this is a really weird example, but I want to make sure I understand what ARP is, what it does, and why
we use it.
From what I understand in a nutshell, the process of ARP is to send packets to different networks and the ARP
cache is basically a database (or a map as Daniel said) of all those different ip addresses and mac addresses
in each network. Is this correct?

Sarah,
yeah that's how I had the process down in my head I just always found it a bit ackward that you are sending a
packet addressed to a particular host to another host.
Carrie,
I'm going to read through your example and comment as I read.
"
Okay. So... Still using the house, neighborhood, and now adding a city example... OK let's do it
31
(Go with me here, because this will be an odd example that isn't exactly how the real post office does things.)
I've seen odder things
Let's say PC1 has a certain ip address (address), with a certain "zip code" (mask), and the Mac address would
be like the "Name" of the certain person who lives at that address.
It's ok to refer to the zipcode as the mask but just keep in mind that an IP address means nothing by itself and
a subnet mask means nothing by itself where a zipcode can be used alone to identify an area and an address
can be useful on it's own. An IP address and subnet mask are only useful when used together. Also the name
of the person at the address would more accurately represent a particular session or program. City would
be the network address, street name would be the host portion, and the particular house would be the MAC
address.
The same is true for PC2, BUT PC2 lives in a completely different "city" (network). THIS is where the ARP
cache is used by the switch which is basically a big "post office sorting center".
Yeah tha's a good way of looking at the MAC table but you have to realize that the switch is a layer 2 device so
it doesn't deal with IP.
Two senarios will happen at the switch. This switch will look at the ip address and the MAC address on the
packet from PC1 to PC2, which is to "To:" portion of the envelope and see it's addressed to PC2 "From:" PC1.
The switch will look in it's ARP cache to see if it has that address in it's database. If it does, then the packet will
go to PC2.
A switch cares not for the IP. A switch is a layer 2 device so it can't see the IP address. We should probably
expand our example to how UPS does things. UPS takes all the packages to a local center where it gets
processed and sent to a bigger facility where it will be shipped to where it should be.
When a Source sends a packet through a switch the switch looks at the source MAC and the destination
MAC. so if the router is on port 1 and the pc is on port 2, the pc will send an ARP to all ports and the port that
responds will be the router. now the switch knows what port the router is on and the MAC address of that
router. The PC also knows the MAC address of the router thanks to the response. So the next time the PC
wants to send something to the router it will use the routers MAC address because it knows it.
The second senario... Say PC2 is a "new house" with a "new address", "new owners", etc. In this case, (this is
where it's not exactly how the real post office does things because it would be impossible) the switch wouldn't
have that person's name and address in the ARP cache. So the switch would send a request to EVERY house
in that city asking who's house this address and mac belongs to. Only PC2 will respond back saying "this is my
house and that mac is me". At that point, the switch adds PC2's address and mac to the ARP cache for future
knowledge. It's doesn't have to add PC1's information because it already has that info from when it received
the packet at the switch because PC1's info was listed on the "From:" part of the envelope.
32
yes you got the arp process except know that the IP is never known by the switch because the switch doesn't
care. Switches don't deal in IP just like HUBs don't care about IP or MAC hence calling a hub a switch is totally
bad.
Also, the default gateway is kind of like the local post offices that don't sort the mail and just forward the
packets to the address that the switch has already pre-sorted where it goes to. Are default gateways usually
routers or servers? One or the other? Only routers?
Servers are like PCs...in fact all a sever is is a beefed up PC.
I know this is a really weird example, but I want to make sure I understand what ARP is, what it does, and why
we use it.
It seems like you get how it works, just know that arp is used by a PC to associate a MAC address to an IP
address. That is all it is doing.
From what I understand in a nutshell, the process of ARP is to send packets to different networks and the ARP
cache is basically a database (or a map as Daniel said) of all those different ip addresses and mac addresses
in each network. Is this correct?
Only the PC and router has an ARP cache, a switch has a MAC table where it keeps what MAC address is on
what port, NO IP INFO what so ever. remember switches don't deal in the layer 3......unless you have a layer 3
switch which is beyond this discussion.

Okay. Totally understand what you are saying, and I do understand a mask means nothing with an IP and an
IP is useless without a mask. They work in conjunction with each other. Got it. And just since we are drilling
down to basics? Can I clarify this?
Every device has a Mac Address that is it's own and only it's own. It's assigned and can't ever be changed,
just like our brains. Is that correct? Is the Mac Address the hard drive component? So, the only way the Mac
address could change would be if I changed out the hard drive, which would be like switching brains? (Sorry,
that sounds really morbid...)
IP addresses can be changed. This would be like if I color my hair. I can change the color of it anytime I want
to, but it's best to not do it often. It still won't change my brain though. (Omg, it's just getting worse. Sorry.)
Now, I hope I at least understand that part. (pun not intentional, still laughing though)
33
Okay. So, you are telling me that all the switch looks at is the MAC address. So, that's like me saying send
this to Daniel. If the switch doesn't know Daniel, the switch has to carry the sound "Who here is Daniel?". You
say, "I'm Daniel". Then it adds your brain to it's map? It already has my brain. (What have I done, here???)
Then it says, "Carrie's brain is yelling for you... (I can't even type now...) saying she wants to send you a
message."
Only I can speak, using my brain, vocal cords, and know what to say by history of learning to talk. This is why I
have an arp cache. You have an arp cache, and anyone we have directly spoken to has an arp cache because
they heard it. Switches are like the air between us the sound carries across.
It's like a giant game of "telephone" via our brains through a switch (the air)?
Daniel, and everyone... I'm so sorry. This is my worst analogy yet. I think I'll retire it.

That is all correct except change Harddrive to NIC. And instead of your brain lets use the mouth. your mouth is
the NIC card because it is what you use to speak.
And MAC address can change but they are not suppose to. there is software out here that lets you change
your MAC. At school the ports were set up to only use one specific MAC (the MAC of the PCs in the labs). I
wanted to plug in my own laptop and I copied the MAC of the PC that was supposed to be there and gave it to
my laptop. This way I bypassed the security measures.

Thanks! I'm getting closer!
So, my network Interface Card (NIC) is what assigns my MAC address to the device. The mask is assigned to
my device via Layer 2? IP through Layer 3? I ARP my PC through a switch using my basic info (my NIC MAC
address), both the router and PC store my ARP cache, and this is how they know if it's okay to share or not.
Did I at least get this part correct on ARP?
***Note, trying to improve my vocabulary, so I'm not looking at books for definitions or acronyms.
NIC - Network Interface Card
MAC - Manual Address Command(?)

ARP - Address Routing Protocol? (?)
34
IP - Interface Protocol (?)
I hope this is somewhat right...

Nevermind... I looked them up.
NIC - Network Interface Card
MAC - Media Access Control

ARP - Address Resolution Protocol
IP - Internet Protocol
Clearly this is where my personal struggle resides.

Yes your NIC is what determines your MAC. The MAC is permanently programmed into the NIC. But the actual
stack is written into the OS so it can choose not to use the MAC on the NIC. I'm not 100% sure why that is
possible but it is. Maybe I'll go start a discussion and ask.
Yes MAC= layer 2 and IP = layer 3.
You'd only use ARP to find out someone else's IP, you already know your own IP. (I think that is what you
meant but just to be clear)
Yes the PC and the router build ARP tables. Anything that operates at layer 3 needs an ARP table.
Seems like you got it all down.

The most immediate example of why you can program MAC addresses in the OS stack is with virtualization.
Whenever you have a Hyper-V or VMWare host that has multiple virtual machines with virtual NICs you can
actually tell the hypervisor what range of MAC addresses to assign to each NIC.
35
This way you can immediately tell what MAC address belongs to your virtual hosts and even which hypervisor
assigned the mac address if you do it correclty.
Fabiola
Hi Carrie and all,
I've seen this thread and have not commented on it since it became quite long and there are already too many
cooks in the kitchen.
However, since you are using WO's OCG to study, take a look at the process of routing (pages 428-431 of the
printed edition). Now that you guys have discussed it quite at length, then it would probably make much more
sense now. It is very important to understand the sequences and decision points in the process bc it is going to
help you a lot during troubleshooting.
Good luck with your studies!
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Subnet 0

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Difficulty with the Subnet Zero Concept

LovesNetworking - CCENT 191 posts since Apr 13, 2014

Uttam 432 posts since Mar 27, 2011

daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

so normally if you tried to use 10.0.0.1 /16 this happens

daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

LovesNetworking - CCENT 191 posts since Apr 13, 2014

daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

PC1-R1 10.0.0.0 /13

R2-PC2 10.0.0.0 /13

PC1-R1 10.8.0.0 /13

R2-PC2 10.8.0.0 /13

here are the network IDs and the broadcast

PC1-R1 10.56.0.0 /13

R1-R2 192.168.5.0 /30 <--- part of a zero subnet

R1-R3 192.168.6.0 /24

R1-R4 192.168.7.128 /25

R2-PC2 10.16.0.0 /13

R3-PC3 10.0.0.0 /14 <--- part of a zero subnet

R4-PC4 172.30.0.0 /21 <--- part of a zero subnet

so I'd choose A for sure

Notice how PC4 is sort of on the broadcast subnet

So I'd also choose C but I'm really not 100 percent.

I hope all this is accurate, if not I'd welcome the input.

LovesNetworking - CCENT 191 posts since Apr 13, 2014

LovesNetworking - CCENT 191 posts since Apr 13, 2014

daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

Anyway let's spend some time on why is c a correct answer?

Maybe I'm just over thinking it.

LovesNetworking - CCENT 191 posts since Apr 13, 2014

sarah 2,313 posts since Sep 12, 2013

daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

192.168.7.255/255 - 11000000.10101000.00000111.11111111 - -> All 1's in the host is a broadcast

192.168.7.128 /25 is the all ones subnet.

It's not. 172.30.7.0 is being considered the broadcast subnet

sarah 2,313 posts since Sep 12, 2013

"172.30.7.0 is being considered the broadcast subnet"--------------------or is 172.30.7.0 an ip address in

192.168.7.0 - 11000000. 10101000. 00000111.00000000 -- > All zeros

192.168.7.127 - 11000000.10101000. 00000111.01111111 - - > All zeros

192.168.7.128/25 - 11000000.10101000.00000111. 10000000 - - > All 1's

Rick 504 posts since Nov 22, 2013

Rick 504 posts since Nov 22, 2013

I think you're right That's how I understand it.

sarah 2,313 posts since Sep 12, 2013

That's what I thought for the option C.

sarah 2,313 posts since Sep 12, 2013

sarah 2,313 posts since Sep 12, 2013

Black - Network bits -- Pink - Subnet bits --Blue - Host bits

1st Zero subnet

2nd Zero subnet

daniel 307 posts since Jan 19, 2013

Carrie 623 posts since May 13, 2014

Carrie 623 posts since May 13, 2014

sarah 2,313 posts since Sep 12, 2013

Again, technically incorrect way of understanding and addressing the concept

Here's a gist of the ARP process from one of my earlier post....

PC checks - - > Is the destination address in the same subnet as mine?

Here's the link to a slightly elaborated explanation....................https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/

Dmcneil 1,163 posts since Apr 26, 2010

Dmcneil 1,163 posts since Apr 26, 2010

Comparison: 172.16.0.0/16 Broadcast address would be 172.16.255.255

network subnet host