Composer in Interview: Giya Kancheli

Author(s): Arved Ashby, Margarita Mazo and Giya Kancheli

Source: Tempo, New Series, No. 211 (Jan., 2000), pp. 9-15
Published by: Cambridge University Press
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/946750
Accessed: 01-05-2015 23:32 UTC

Your use of the JSTOR archive indicates your acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of Use, available at http://www.jstor.org/page/
info/about/policies/terms.jsp

JSTOR is a not-for-profit service that helps scholars, researchers, and students discover, use, and build upon a wide range of content
in a trusted digital archive. We use information technology and tools to increase productivity and facilitate new forms of scholarship.
For more information about JSTOR, please contact support@jstor.org.

Cambridge University Press is collaborating with JSTOR to digitize, preserve and extend access to Tempo.

http://www.jstor.org

This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions
ArvedAshby & MargaritaMazo
Composer in Interview: Giya Kancheli

Giya Kancheli(b.1935, Tbilsi)wasperhapsthefirst All of that means a lot to me, I am not indifferent
Sovietcomposer of hisgenerationto be recognized as an to what is going on there. I feel as though I've
internationalpresencedistinctfrom and commensurate never left Georgia: physically I am in Antwerp,
with AlfredSchnittke.He has also consistentlystood a beautiful city, but at the same time I am
apartfromthosemusicians - Gubaidulina andDenisov 'there', in my house, with my friends, and with
amongthem- wholatchedaudiblyontotheEuropean our and my problems. I have one composition
modernismthat first began to infiltratethe Iron called Abii ne viderem,which I was working on
Curtainin the 1960s. Kancheli'smusiccircumscribesduring the civil war in Georgia, in Tbilisi. I gave
in vivid confrontation all the violent, irreconciliableit such a name because in Latin it means 'I
paradoxesof the post-Cold War landscape,yet an departed, lest I see'. And even after titling this
almost romanticnaivety and idealismprecludethe piece so, I couldn't 'depart'for anywhere, I was
ascetic gestures of Gubaidulina and the still there. That is why the music couldn't be the
Verfremdungsaffekteof Schnittkeor Ustvolskaya. same.... In the 1980s there was one situation, in
Such picturesof Kancheli'swork, however, don't the 1970s another, but in the 1990s everything
accountfor the constructive,symphonicaffirmations has changed, and because of that the music has
thatgrew alongsidehis abilityto depictspiritualand changed.
emotionaldesolation.He is bestknownfor his epochal Q: But preciselyhow did your music changewith
cycleof sevensymphonies,whichhe tied off in 1986 thesecataclysmic events?How is your musicdfferent
as a discreteand historicallyconsciouscontribution to now than it was in 1991?
thegenre.(IvanMoodydiscussed thefirstsix symphonies GK:That is hard for me to define. Cataclysms,
in Tempo 173 [une 1990, pp.49-52], alongwith unfortunately, have been prevalent not only in
Svietlayapiechalfor boys'voicesand orchestra.) Since recentyears.
then,Kanchelihasalsogoneon to makenewdiscoveries Q: One obviouschange,however,is yourmoveaway
in chambermusicand opera. from thegenreof the symphony- althoughyou have
We spokewithKancheliby telephonein September since becomebest-known,at least in the West, as a
1997, withfollow-upqueriesposedinJuly 1998 and composer of symphonies.But thenwe shouldadd that
October1999. The questionsweredevisedby Awed composers have movedawayfrom thegenregenerally.
Ashby and MargaritaMazo, translationseffectedby It's hard to escapethe suspicionthat somehowthe
Margarita Mazo andDiana Lentsner.Kanchelispoke symphony is no longer suited to our own post-
in Russian,hissecondlanguage. A periodofself-imposed Shostakovich era even thoughit mightstill 'speak'to
exile beganwith the Georgiancivil war, and he has thatera.MaybeforthisveryreasonSilvestrov has called
since made his home in Antwerp, where he was his Fifth Symphonya 'post-symphony'.
composer-in-residence with the orchestrafor the 1995- GK: I believe that any 'crisis'of the genre is only
96 season.Morerecently,he was composer-in-residence temporary. I don't think any genre can become
at the InternationalFestival of Music Lucernein outlived or useless. I'm a big admirer of
Augustand September 1999, andattendsto a growing Shostakovich, but a couple years ago I heard the
list of commissionsand an increasingnumber of symphony ofJohn Corigliano, which has nothing
recording sessions. in common with Shostakovich's symphonic
music. Then I realizedthat this genre cannot die.
Q: Does your musicsound diferentlysince you left Q: Why did you stop writingsymphoniesin 1986
Georgia? then?
GIYA KANCHELI: Not only because I left Georgia, GK: In 1986, after the Sixth Symphony, I wanted
but because times changed, the situation to stop working in this genre completely. But,
changed, the political situation changed. All of after the performance of this symphony in
this makes itself felt. Right now it is a very Prague by the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra I
difficult time for Georgia, and for almost all of was kindly asked by the orchestra to write a
the former Soviet republics, including Russia. symphony for them. And I did. I called this last

This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions
10 Composerin Interview:Giya Kancheli

symphony Epilogue,because I did not want to more for symphonies. I had decided to write my
write more symphonies. Recently, the Orchestra First Symphony within two years of my gradua-
of Austrian Radio recorded my symphonic tion from the Conservatory. Where I got such
composition which surpassesall my symphonies impudence, I don't know. Maybe because at that
in its content and length. This composition is time of the Iron Curtain, Shostakovichhad lived
called Trauerfarbenes Land. I could have called it and composed, and all of us were captivated by
the Eighth Symphony, but since I've already his music. We're lucky he was there for us,
composed Epilogue,I did not want to do so. because otherwise everything would have been
Q: Is thereany diferencebetweena 'symphony' anda much worse.
'largesymphoniccomposition'like Trauerfarbenes Q: What do you meanby that?
Land? GK: I mean there was no musical information.
GK: I think there is a difference. In spite of the Shostakovich's music was the only modern
fact that the contemporary notion of symphony music available to my generation. There were
differsgreatlyfrom the conventional one in terms recordingsof his symphoniesavailable,conducted
of the form and dramaturgy,in the symphony by Ivanov. It gave me, a student in the Tbilisi
there always should be an attempt to express Conservatory, the only opportunity to
oneself completely and entirely, according to 'communicate' with the outside world. It was
the time in which this symphony is being only later that I discovered Mahler. I think it
composed. I think that any composer tries to [Shostakovich'smusic] saved us. And then 'The
express himself completely. After all, leaving Thaw' started in the 1960s, and we learned
something unsaid is a problem that stays with about the existence of Schoenberg, Webem, and
you forever. The length of the piece in itself is Berg, and the other composers, the avant-garde,
of no importance to me. etc. This information was 'dropped' on us so
Q: And you becametiredof thatsymphoniccomplete- suddenly, all we had had before was
nessof utterance? Shostakovich. We did not even know
GK: No, I did not get tired of that. To put it Prokofiev's early compositions.
simply: time has passed, and now I'm working Q: As you suggest,the SovietMinistryof Culture's
on different tasks which I've made for myself. higherfeesfor a symphonymighthave temptedyou
They are no less important than working in the intoworkingin thegenre.And peopletendto callyou
symphonic genre. Recently I finished a piano a 'Russiancomposer', perhapsbecauseyou'vebeenso
quartet for the Bridge Ensemble in Seattle, and prolificin an 'establishment
genre' that was adopted
it premiered October 13th. In this piece, in and maintained by Russians like Prokofiev,
addition to the usual reasons for which my Miaskovsky,Shostakovich,etc. How do you, as a
music is always sorrowful, one more was added. Georgian,feel aboutthe label?
The piece could be especiallysad because I knew GK: If people consider me a Georgian composer,
I had to fly to the premiere and wouldn't be able I'm very happy with that. But I've never striven
to smoke duringthe flight.For me it was a tragedy. to demonstrate my national roots in my music.
Q: It wouldbe hardto comeup with a sequelto the I grew up on Georgian soil and listened to
Seventh,musicallyspeaking.Are yoursymphoniesto Georgian folk music from an early age, and I
be heardin sequence,the Fourthfollowingup on the absorbedinto myself all the best and worst in my
Third,the Sixth on the Fifth, and so on? people. But the connections between my comp-
GK: I don't think sequence plays any role at all. ositions and the music of my people are very
Q: Perhapsyourmoveawayfromthe symphonyhas indirect. That music lives inside me, as my
to do withyourgoing to the West,with new economic native language does.
circumstances, commissions...? Q: But everybodytalks about the influencesof
GK:My leaving Tbilisi was a spontaneous act. I Georgianfolkmusicon yourmusic...
was not going to stay in the West originally. In GK: If so, I'm very happy. I value Georgian
1991 I'd received a stipend from the German polyphonic folk music too highly to use it in my
Academy of Art, and I was planning to go back compositions, because I've always considered
to Tbilisi in 1992, but in 1992 the Civil War this music professional. The drawing up from
had started, and I'd decided to wait and see for this source scoop by scoop, as some colleagues
as long as my financial condition permitted. But of mine do, is plagiarismin some sense. But if
I was probably born under a lucky star, because someone thinks my music resembles Georgian
I've been getting one commission after another, folk music in its spirit, then I feel happy.
and that's why I'm still here. I'm visiting Tbilisi Q: Can we talk about the use of time in your
often, though. Maybe I had composed symphonies symphonies?Startingwith the Secondyou stopped
originally because the Ministry of Culture paid dividingyoursymphoniesinto movementsandseemed

This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions
 Composerin Interview:Giya Kancheli 11

to requirelong, uninterrupted spans of time. Would

you everwritein shortermovements?
GK: I prefer not to do so, but I did once. I wrote
a piece for Yuri Bashmet, a liturgy called Vom
Winde beweint,which is 40 minutes long and
consists of four movements. It has pauses
between movements. But still, if I'm present at
the performance I always ask the conductor not
to put his arms down during the pause in order
not to give the audience a chance to cough,
blow their noses, and so on. Also, I alwaysaskthat
this piece be played in one breath, as it were.
Q: Not by coincidence, thatmulti-movement workalso
has ongoingostinatorhythmsandperiodicphrasing,at
least to a degreethat's unusualfor you. Morton
Feldmanoncesaid that the longera pieceof musicis,
the less materialit needs. Wouldyou agreewith that?
GK: I'd respond to him with the words of one
of Nabokov's characters,who said that Art is a
magnificent deception.
Q: What does that mean?
GK: If you continue with the same irony that
is found in the words of one of Nabokov's
characters, everything seems so simple: geniuses
Kancheli(photo:Linda Chung-Won Kim, ? ECM Records)
deceive as geniuses do, talentedpeople as talented Giya
people do, and those without talent deceive
accordingly. One can find profound wisdom in
this seemingly flippant expression. Right now I'm having the same problem in the
Q: AdornooncecalledMahler'ssymphonies'novel- new composition I'm working on. And that's all
symphonies'.In a longsymphonyof yours,arewe in I can say about music. It all ends right there.
a differentplacewhen we end than when we started? Q: This soundsvery metaphorical. What exactlydo
Is it a journey? you meanby subdominant-dominant-tonic progression?
GK: Alfred Schnittke, speaking about my music, GK: If you analyze my music, you would see
said something about gliding in the sky as time that this simple formula exists in there, but there
stops existing... It is often quoted, and I think are as many different ways to get from the sub-
that it's said very well. I agree with Alfred. dominant to the dominant and to the tonic, as
Q: So you agreethatin yourmusictimedoesn'texist? there are combinations in a chess game.
GK: I'd like it to be so. I don't know if it is so, Q: This all soundsSchenkerian,and also quintessen-
but often, after listening to a composition of tiallysymphonic.So you thinkthis kindof long-range
mine, people think that it lasted 15 minutes tonal-harmonic problemstill existsfor composers?
when in reality it was 25 or 30 minutes long. GK: For me it does. There are composers who
Q: Does this meanyourwantyourmusicto createits write atonal music, serial music. For them this
own time? problem does not exist, but for me it does.
GK: It sounds too high-flown. It would not be Q: You always seem to have one primaryclimactic
modest to say 'Yes, I want that'. point in each composition:the bold cadentialarrival
Q: Is your musicabsolutemusic?It seemsto have a early on in Midday Prayers, for example or the
'symphonic' wayof markingtime.And it isn'tostensibly Petrushka-likeostinatosectionfive-sixthsof the way
programmatic.Yet it seems to carrycertaindistinct, throughthe Third Symphony. Do these climactic
unequivocal gestures,signs, and timbralfingerprints. pointsfall at any particularpoint in your I-IV- V-I
GK: I think my music is both absolute and progression?
programmatic. In an interview for Gramophone GK: I hope my subdominant,dominant,and tonic
magazine I said that each artist solves his own descriptions won't be taken too literally. If you
problemsthe best he can. My problemis so simple, can imagine a flower that makes its way through
that it can even put a smile on one's face: how asphalt, that's exactly what you find in each of
to get from the subdominant to the dominant, my compositions. In my works I'm always trying
and from the dominantto the tonic. And the more to get this flower through the asphalt, and for
time passes, the more problematic it becomes. some reason, at this particularpoint a so-called

This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions
12 Composerin Interview:Giya Kancheli
'enjoyment' of the subdominant, dominant and
tonic usually takes place... It reminds me of the
process of gradual catharsis. When the grand
textural layers alternatewith each other, and it's
going on for a long time, it graduallyresolves in
what I call 'breakingthrough asphalt'.
Q: Meaning,it resolvesinto this simpleformula?
GK: Yes. There is timbraldramaturgy.But there
is also orchestral dramaturgy,and the question
of culmination relatesto this kind of dramaturgy.
On the large scale, everything is tied to the
process of thinking, but orchestral dramaturgy
must have its hidden plan. By 'orchestraldrama-
turgy' I mean, for instance, the distribution of
culminating points. When I don't compose I
try to analyze, and I came to the conclusion that
the orchestraldramaturgyexists separatelyfrom
others, and incorporates culminating points,
relationships between orchestral groups (strings
and woodwinds, woodwinds and brass,percus-
sion and the rest of the orchestra, etc.). All that
shouldbe controlledby some 'interal laws',which
each author creates himself. And the question of
culminatingpoints is connected to that.
Q: If eachcomposer inventshis orherown laws, what
areyourlaws?
GK: As soon as you attempt to go into the
details, I just don't know how to answer. And
not because I don't want to, but simply because
I just don't know. These are subconscious
processes, and they are inexplicable.
Q: So, howdo you compose:entirelyby instinctor do
you drawsomekind of outline?
GK: Mostly, by intuition, but not exclusively.
Again, this question is inexplicable. How is
music composed? How is a poem written? The
creativeprocessis so difficult,it requiressuch self-
devotion and overcoming of so many obstacles.It
is a constant suffering.A sufferingfrom morning
till night, and then also in your dreams.And after
that it startsall over againand never ends, because
when a composition is finished, a feeling of
complete emptiness takes over, and this is simply
unbearable... And after that you start thinking
about doing something, you need to come up
with something new. But this 'something'
doesn't come, because some time should pass
first, and something should happen, and it
depends on where you are at that time, whom
you are communicating with, etc., etc...
Q: Is thissuffering partof makingthepieceasgood as
it can be, or is it afear ofgettinglost in thepiece?
GK: I would not call it 'fear', it is a state of the
soul.
Q: A professionalcomposerusuallyhas some overall
plan or sketches,whetherin the mind or on paper,
whenworkingon a largepiece.
This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions
GK: The only thing I can say is to repeat myself:
this is a constant, day-by-day, tormenting
process. Speaking specifically, of course, there
are some sketches, some disappointments...
Today you spend many hours on two bars of
music, tomorrow you realize that it needs to be
thrown away. I try not to have a plan. Rather, I
feel I'm takinga path without being certainwhere
it will lead. What you seem interested in, the
kind of 'anticipation'of events you're getting at,
occurs when a large part of the piece - ten, 12,
15 minutes of the music - is already written.
After that I'm startingto think where it is going
to go and what it is going to come to. But I
don't have any particular plan that I'd follow
from the very beginning.
Q: Therefore, the largepicturecomesoutfromthefirst
stageof work?
GK: Yes, it comes to me in the process of
composing.
Q: So can you describeyourselfas strivingfor some-
thing over this processof composition?Your answer
neednot describe somethingwe cannecessarilyhearin
thefinishedproduct.
GK: I can tell you about my only wish: it is to have
a particularkind of silence during a performance
of my composition. Let me tell you about my
expectations when I'm present at performances.
First of all, the silence in the concert hall can be
of two differentkinds: 'intelligent' and 'mysteri-
ous', and it seems to me that I can distinguish
between these two silences. When polite,
intelligent people sit and listen to my music
and even applaud afterwards,it would be one
silence. The other silence occurs when there are
invisible threads extending from the conductor
to the orchestraand to the listeners. This silence
is very different, and I can't explain it otherwise.
There were moments when this 'mysterious'
silence reigned over the concert hall during the
performance of my works. For me, it is the
greatest accolade.
Q: Is it a dfferencebetween 'organic'silence and
'dead'silence,or 'iving' and 'dead'silence?Youcan
'listen'to thesilencein a Cage-sortof way, or thereis
silencein the senseof absenceof sound...
GK:Let me give you an example. In 1985 Kurt
Masur conducted the premiere of my composi-
tion Svietlaya piechal[commonlytranslatedas 'Light
Sorrow'] at the Gewandhaus. This work lasts a
little bit over 30 minutes. When the perform-
ance ended, the silence did not. It did not end
for 49 seconds! I know because later, when I
received an audio tape of this performance, I timed
this silence. After 15 seconds into this silence I
felt scared, and this feeling I had never experi-
enced before. I think that it was mostly Kurt
 Composerin Interview:Giya Kancheli 13

Masur'sdoing, because he was able to bring this Q: Can you at least tell us why you use high voices
large piece to such an end that this silence, so oftenin yourmusic?
which 'lived' in the concert hall with 2,500 GK: If God gave a person a high voice, then I
people, would continue for about 50 seconds. use it. I've used a descant voice a couple of
Q: Is this silencea higheror more importantform times already.Recently there was a performance
than music? of my composition Diplipito,which involves a
GK: For me, yes, it is. This composition is counter-tenor, also a high voice, as well as cello
dedicatedto the childrenwho died during World and chamber orchestra. In my Svietlayapiechal
War II. In this work I have used originaltexts by for boys' choir and symphony orchestraI've used
Shakespeare,Goethe, Pushkin, and the Georgian two high solo voices, two descants. In Midday
poet Galaktion Tabidze. Towards the end of the PrayersI have also used a descant.
piece, the performing children leave the stage Q: But still, why?
one by one. I think this slight theatricalization GK: Probably because for me high voices evoke
also played its role in the audience's reaction. a feeling of purity and something sublime.
But one way or another, for me it was maybe Q: It is a child-like,asexualkind of sound. Is it an
the highest award. ecclesiastic
sound?
Q: Your music has a huge dynamic range, huge GK: Maybe... My Third Symphony begins with
diferencesbetweenloud and soft withouta middle- three motives sung by a singer who did not
ground.A kind of dynamicneverbeforeheard.How know notation because he was singing in a folk
arewe supposedto hearthesedifferences? ensemble. He was an absolutely unique singer,
GK: This question has been asked so often, and who possessed this almost otherworldly voice.
since for me it's so difficult to answer, I came up The effect was that his voice comes down from
with the following answer: when the listener somewhere above. Unfortunately, this person is
startsfalling asleep, I wake him up. not living anymore. But recently in Lisbon there
Q: But seriously...? was a performance of Diplipito with the
GK: I can't answer it seriously. Besides: in every American countertenor Derek Lee Ragin,
joke there is a grain of truth, as they say. whose voice was used in the Farinellimovie. He
Q: Might the loudpassagesbe a kind of penancefor has the same otherworldly kind of voice. I
the almost unhealthybeauty of the quietermusic? would not be surprised if in the future, if he
After all, can our 20th-centuryconsciences allow us agrees, I were to write a composition especially
suchfree accessto beautyin art afterthe barbarisms for him. On November 18, 19, 20 the New
andgenocideswe'vecommittedoverthepast century? York Philharmonic under Masur'sdirection will
GK: Unfortunately, even 'high art' cannot perform my new composition And FarewellGoes
change our world. Creating beauty is an endless Out Sighingas part of his project 'Messages for
process. But the tendency to destroy each other the Millennium'. The performers are Gidon
also seems endless. Kremer, Derek Lee Ragin and the Orchestra.
Q: So muchrecentmusic- Schnittke,Pdrt, Tavener, The other composers that Masur commissioned
AaronJayKeris, Corigliano's symphony- seemsto be for this project are Corigliano, Ades, Saariaho,
about doingpenanceand mourningforthingspast. Somei Satoh, and Henze.
Do we do a kind of penancewhen we listen to your Q: What wouldyou do f Joan Sutherlandcameout
music? of retirementwith heroperaticvibratoand heavyvocal
GK: Composers do indeed do a kind of penance coloursand askedyou to writea piecefor her?
when writing music. And for us this process is GK: I would not like this idea.
obligatory, being our professional essence. But Q: Tell us how you've usedtape.
listeners have a choice: they don't have to listen. GK: I used tape only once in my piece Night
Q: Can we talk abouttimbreagain,sinceit seemsso Prayers.Once I wrote incidental music to the
veryimportantto you? production of King Lear by the Rustaveli
GK: For me, timbre is one of the most important Theatre. At that time I brought the dramatic
components, like paint for the painter. For actors to the recording studio, gave each of
instance I have a certain attractionto low flutes, them a certain task to perform, got a certain
and so on. I think the question of timbraldrama- recording from it, put this through a so-called
turgy is again a genetic problem: it depends on processor, and got a certain 'choral' effect. It's
what is 'encoded' in the certain person. One not possible to get it from singing, but at the
hears timbre differently from another. How can same time, there are no electronically-generated
I explain that? Liking specific instruments is sounds involved, just the men's voices. That's
inexplicable, like preference for a certain colour why, some time after King Lear, I used this
or a certain food. recording when I was working on the piece for

This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions
14 Composerin Interview:Giya Kancheli

the Norwegian saxophonist Jan Garbarekwith cataclysmic thingsare happening'on-camera' in your

the same tape. music, thingshappeningdirectlyin front of our eyes
Q: Whenyou broughtthoseactorsfromtheRustaveli when most 'absolute'concertmusicseems to describe
Theatreto the studio,whatexactlydid you ask them less intrusive,'off-camera' events.
to do? GK:Working on a theatre production or a
GK: I assigned one Sumerian word to each of movie or writing just for myself, I never think
them. Sumerian is a dead language now. I chose about associations that listeners might make. In
Sumerian words, which I'd already used in my the movies the most important thing for me is
opera Musikfur die Lebenden,according to their the visual image, and in the theatre it is the stage
phonic features. I asked each actor to mumble with the action taking place on it.
one certainword, and each had a differentword. Q: Tell us moreabout your operaMusik fur die
I did not care for the meaning of these words, Lebenden.
just their phonetic properties. In my opera I GK: Musikfur die Lebendenis a large-scale opera
used approximately 100 Sumerian words. For with libretto by Robert Sturua, who directed it
King Lear,I brought in 12 actors, gave them 12 at the Tbilisi Opera Theater. It involves boys'
words, and explained in a very approximateway choir, mixed choir, soloists and ballet. Over two
what I wanted them to do: I sang each melody. acts there is continuous singing, but everybody
Q: Wouldyou everbe interestedin writingelectronic still said that it is not an opera. There was a con-
music? troversy about this show, about whether it is
GK: I've used it in Exil for soprano and instru- opera or not. Perhaps it was too unusual for
mental ensemble. The beginning of this piece is them. There is no development of the plot, no
a kind of electronic music. The sounding instru- words. I've already mentioned that I used the
ment is the shakuhachi, a Japanese flute, and I Sumerian language there, and chose all the
played it myself on synthesizer. I used a sampler, words according to their phonetic features, not
wrote the melody, and played it myself. resorting to the meaning of these words. There
Q: But you don'tseem interestedin usingelectronics are no sentences in this opera.
togenerateunknownsoundsor obviouslynon-acoustic Q: But you knewthe meaningof thosewords?
sounds. The tape openingto Night Prayerssounds GK: Yes I did, but in the opera they are not
like a Tibetanmonk singingin overtonesoff in the strung together. This show is also slightly
distance,whilethe openingof Exil almostsoundslike unusual in its dramaturgyand form. That was
a whale-song,againplacealmostout of earshot. exactly what provoked the controversy. The
GK: Yes, it was purposelyrecordedin such a way. main protagonistsin this opera are the children.
Q: Yourmusicoftenremindsme offilm musicin its There is no plot in the opera. After the World
use of timbre,use of spaceand time. Did your work Catastrophe nothing else is left on the Earth,
in films influenceyoursymphonicwritingor concert- except for a few children, who survive it by a
musicwriting? miracle. One of the boys finds an old one-
GK: I don't know if you are aware of the fact stringed violin in the ruins, and suddenly hears
that I worked a lot in the movies and in the the first sound, the sound with which the opera
theatre. I wrote the soundtracks to 50 movies. begins.
Among them, 5-6 are good films and the rest Q: This soundslike a genuineplot to me.
are bad. In film I worked with such directors GK: Yes, but this is the end of it. Because after
as Daneliya, Schengelaya, in the theatre with that, as usual, the struggle between Good and
Robert Sturua. And when I collaborated with Evil takesplace. And imagine: the performersare
those directors, some images from my non- singing but nobody understands the words. In
film music got into the film, and vice versa. I the second act, unexpectedly, a 25-minute
have no idea when and how it happened. episode occurs that depicts, at about the time of
Q: Perhapsone thingwe couldsay aboutyourconcert World War I let's say, La Scala doing a tour per-
music,to go backto the questionof volumelevelsfor formance in a military hospital for the wounded
a moment,is that its unmediatedextremesbetween and sick, and playing there an Italianmelodrama
loud and soft tend to explodethe purely 'hearable' with love scenes, poisonings, etc..., with the
realmandthrowus backto thevisual.Or at leastpeople death of all main charactersin the end. A shell
aremorewillingto takedynamicextremesif theycan then hits the hospital, and everything is gone...
link them with visual events. This is just one way And there is a conclusion afterthat. Anyway, for
your musicis cinematic.Cinemascholarstalk about the Tbilisi listeners it was ratherunexpected and
'on-camera' space,and ourlack odd. That is why there was this talk about it.
spaceand 'off-camera'
of experiencein the concerthall with this kind of When this opera was performed twice in
unmediatedspan betweensoft and loud suggeststhat Moscow at the Bolshoi Theater, it also caused a

This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions

lot of controversy there.
Q: If the meaningof thewordsis not understood, how
doesthe listenerknowwhat is going on?
GK: Robert Sturua staged it in such a way that
everything is very clear visually. The idea of
using the Sumerian language came to me after
I'd read somewhere that only 4 out of 10 words
sung in La Scalaby Italiansingers get through to
the listener. I've had a similar experience sitting
in the opera theatre and listening to operas in
either Russian or the Georgian language, only I
understood some 3 out of 10 words. Then I
thought: 'Why suffer and write on a certain
text?' There are two of us, me and Sturua, and
this is his phenomenon.
Q: If theatricalrealizationplays such an important
rolein Musik fir die Lebenden, is itpossibleto record
the operaon CD and would thatgive a reasonable
senseof the work?
GK: Maybe not the whole thing, but I think it
possible to record parts of the opera, maybe one
hour of music out of the two-hour opera. Since
it's such an expensive project, you know, it is
very difficult to realize on stage. It involves
boys' choir, mixed choir, soloists, large orchestra,
several ballet dances, mime. This kind of grand
show was easy to perform during the days of the
This content downloaded from 134.226.14.55 on Fri, 01 May 2015 23:32:47 UTC
All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions
Composerin Interview:Giya Kancheli 15
Soviet Government, if some opera theatre
would take it on. Now I am working on a new
production of Musikfuirdie Lebendento close the
festival in Weimar, which will be a cultural
Europeancapitalin the month of December 1999.
Q: In Musik fir die Lebenden, as well as in Exil
and elsewhere,you seem very interestedin children
and the voicesof children.Why is that, apartfrom
uniquetimbres?
GK:Because childrenare the greatestphenomena
on our planet, while they are children. With
time we transform and acquire different and
sometimes even brutal approaches.
Q: Are you speakingfromyourown experience?
GK:No, I'm talking in general.
Q: So you wouldagreewith ThomasHardy'sline 'A
time therewas, as one may guess/And as, indeed,
earth'stestimoniestell-/Beforethe birthof conscious-
ness,/When all wentwell'?
GK: I not only agree with it, but will probably
use this line as a subtitle for my next creation.
Q: Cage once called Svietlaya piechal a work of
innocence.Isn't all your musicaboutinnocenceand,
to bringup WilliamBlake, itsperpetualconflictswith
experience?
GK: Isn't that the perpetual problem in our
universe?