The Water Cooler Page 5 PDF

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1. The Day of the Flag (0 replies)

2. Wartime Survival? (2 replies)
3. Best friend's sister got raped (18 replies)
4. why do you not include body armour to this forum? (2 replies)
5. Who out bid me? (0 replies)
6. History keeps repeating itself -- French railway sabotuers arrested (Interesting) (0 replies)
7. "Terrorist or not" French government to go after explosive websites (6 replies)
8. French websites provide interesting stories. (7 replies)
9. Glycerin and Salt Water Taffy (holiday treat) (5 replies)
10. "Underground Science" article (7 replies)
11. Kid arrested for guns, bombs, etc. (0 replies)
12. "Post whatever crap you want" Thread (46 replies)
13. Nader calls Obama an "Uncle Tom," Fox News offended. (5 replies)
14. Remember, remember, the 5th of November. (2 replies)
15. Randomness.... (4 replies)
16. "Chemical Demonstrations" by Shakashiri (3 replies)
17. Revolution (17 replies)
18. Human violence and dictatorships! (20 replies)
19. Amateur Chemistry= drugs and bombs (10 replies)
20. Incomplete Ebook - Kill Without Joy - John Minnery -- REWARD (3 replies)
21. the meaning of love and friendship (4 replies)
22. Who would win? - A hypothetical situation (21 replies)
23. Zeitgeist (3 replies)
24. Does anybody like this artwork? (43 replies)
25. $700B Bailout Plan Fails! (25 replies)
26. The truth about islam. (7 replies)
27. I'm pissed off with most of the people here. (16 replies)
28. Re: hard to place a title on this :D (44 replies)
29. The YouTube Dumbass Thread (19 replies)
30. Poor them.... (3 replies)
31. The end is near, the end is near? (2 replies)
32. computer security (10 replies)
33. Chicken Shit Blaster (7 replies)
34. Ordering from overseas... (34 replies)
35. You-Tube K3wl's fingertips blown off by "blasting cap" (5 replies)
36. Kid hits molotov cocktail with a baseball bat (27 replies)
37. Energetic Materials For Energy (12 replies)
38. DJVU to PDF converter troubles (8 replies)
39. Information Swap Alternatives (7 replies)
40. Fitness (14 replies)
41. Mind Reading Program (1 replies)
42. Forum video 2008 (1 replies)
43. Hoping for the return of the latter day edit feature and beautifying (9 replies)
44. Amateur chemist raided, for doing experiments! (17 replies)
45. Welcome to Stalin's USA (3 replies)
46. Funniest chemistry video (6 replies)
47. Anybody speak a little russian? (2 replies)
48. Friend accidentally shot himself....with a gun that I sold him. (6 replies)
49. Homemade.. idiot or badluck? (8 replies)
50. Happy Anniversary (7 replies)
51. What book(s) are you reading? (41 replies)
52. Global Population control. Why not? (48 replies)
53. Composition Equation (4 replies)
54. Randomness (4 replies)
55. Limestone Ammonium Nitrate (LAN) problem (13 replies)
56. Chemistry Game!!! (5 replies)
57. Indonesian Bombs (3 replies)
58. Ethyl nitrate (2 replies)
59. Music? (24 replies)
60. Absolutely Disgusting (13 replies)
61. Supreme Court Rules That Individuals Have Gun Right (5-4) (17 replies)
62. eBay and Chlorates... (8 replies)
63. Comedy legend dies at 71. (5 replies)
64. What a bastard! (9 replies)
65. What NOT To Do (31 replies)
66. Odd fertilizer worked for AN? (5 replies)
67. High School Graduation Resembles Saddam's Rise to Power (14 replies)
68. Thought police snatch kiddies. (12 replies)
69. Joining the French Foreign Legion (25 replies)
70. A question of thermodynamics. (5 replies)
71.
72.
69.
70.
71. Busy tonight (7 replies)
72. Rules? (2 replies)
73. Modified human marker (11 replies)
74. Sevoflurane (5 replies)
75. Cell phone tracking (40 replies)
76. Alternative/renewable fuels (7 replies)
77. Insidious "Purple Liquid": Deadly Cheerleaders Strike Again (21 replies)
78. Deadliest substances (10 replies)
79. This could come in handy? (2 replies)
80. Safety: Man Killed by 145 year old cannon ball (11 replies)
81. Railcar Implosion Video (2 replies)
82. Potassium Nitrate (1 replies)
83. WMD and AN (23 replies)
84. Do you believe everything happens for a reason? (20 replies)
85. Ricin Arrest (12 replies)
86. LSS License file? (8 replies)
87. Analysis of Nitrocellulose (6 replies)
88. Question (Relationship advice) (10 replies)
89. Some good news for the weekend. (1 replies)
90. Mentioning E&W in an Interview (11 replies)
91. Gun Protests Nationwide April 16th....Anyone have plans? (18 replies)
92. How to snare a thief (21 replies)
93. New Restrictions on Nitromethane in the U.S.? (7 replies)
94. -If- a NWO came, what would you do? (9 replies)
95. A Deer Just Killed my Car (16 replies)
96. How nbk2000 spent his spring break (5 replies)
97. Financial Depression Preparedness? (64 replies)
98. What would you do with this marvelous machine? (6 replies)
99. Fuck Kevin Rudd... (13 replies)
100. nitrocellulose problems (0 replies)
101. Rogue Science DVD... (38 replies)
102. Copying Banknotes (25 replies)
103. Breaking Bad (41 replies)
104. Oakleys and Foakleys (14 replies)
105. Guerrilla's Arsenal (7 replies)
106. Dissolving lead (5 replies)
107. Hallucinogens, The Essential Psychedelic Guide and LSD My Problem Child (1 replies)
108. What would YOU do with a centrifuge? (4 replies)
109. One of my old favorite: MN v. AK v. AR (20 replies)
110. Jews Pushing Hard To Criminalize Dissent, Especially Over The Internet (51 replies)
111. Nazi handgun! (4 replies)
112. Vista: Best of whats new or worst of whats wrong? (24 replies)
113. RDX Synthesis Problems ?? (4 replies)
114. Cheapass Faraday Cage (9 replies)
115. Guerilla style aerial bombing (4 replies)
116. Seymore Lecker - k3wL or Expert? (9 replies)
117. MgSO4 as a Desiccant/Best Desiccants (0 replies)
118. Adobe to release a freeware version of Photoshop (7 replies)
119. Compilation of Explosions (8 replies)
120. Getting Used to Nitro Headaches (5 replies)
121. Entropy definition (2 replies)
122. Aerospace Engineering / Forensic Science (8 replies)
123. Appeals Court Overturns D.C. Gun Ban (11 replies)
124. Determining the Grade of Graphite (0 replies)
125. Osama Back in Crosshairs? (18 replies)
126. What do you do when you are bored? (28 replies)
127. Rogue Science was down today? (31 replies)
128. Additives for chlorate/perchlorate cells (4 replies)
129. John Hutchinson (19 replies)
130. Hack attack on server of sciencemadness.org/talk (5 replies)
131. Acetone peroxide - HELP (5 replies)
132. Newbie "Adventures" (2 replies)
133. Teflon Sep. Funnel/Buret Stopcocks vs Glass (11 replies)
134. P Switching Script (9 replies)
135. Need Mathmatical Formula (16 replies)
136. Dangerous deadly weapon used in school! (13 replies)
137. Cannon (6 replies)
138. Blast box for camcorder (2 replies)
139. Spontaneous detonations (1 replies)
140. Possible ebay sting operation (16 replies)
141. HMTD making (14 replies)
142. 9mm, 40SW, 45ACP, 357 SIG vs Body Armor (8 replies)
143. Grenade Shelf Life (10 replies)
144. How to make M-80s, Cherry Bombs, & Silver Salutes. (7 replies)
145. Looking for a book review on "Boom -- Homemade Explosives" (11 replies)
146. what would do with if you found these (3 replies)
147. storing HMTD (3 replies)
148.
149.
146.
This is not147.
registered version of Total HTML Converter
148. The perfect book scanner (1 replies)
149. Amateur Local Weather Control (10 replies)
150. Interesting use of explosives (7 replies)
151. Inside ATM's (3 replies)
152. Sulfuric acid from nitric (5 replies)
153. UK Bombings (4 replies)
154. Australian Politics (1 replies)
155. Just the one post for me. (33 replies)
156. Pigs FUCKING SUCK! (38 replies)
157. Theoretical Revolutionary Strategies (72 replies)
158. It was the first time for me. (8 replies)
159. The Boston Bomb Squad at Work (7 replies)
160. A Interesting Realization. (5 replies)
161. Increase poison absorption? (2 replies)
162. Dangerous Briefcase (15 replies)
163. Spicy explosives (31 replies)
164. KIO3 - How good of an oxidizing agent is it? (0 replies)
165. Active Camouflage (2 replies)
166. House Explodes in Missouri City, TX (1 replies)
167. He's on a mission from God! (3 replies)
168. AgNO3 + S ---> Explode under hammer blow? (8 replies)
169. Easy Entry (8 replies)
170. Qantas bars man wearing 'Bush' T-shirt (21 replies)
171. Essential gear - You don't leave the house without...? (64 replies)
172. User details (10 replies)
173. Dihydrogen monoxide strikes again (13 replies)
174. Failure to properly store hazardous substances! (7 replies)
175. Unknown Liquid (25 replies)
176. BP blasting cap (18 replies)
177. Favourite commercial. (13 replies)
178. K3wl bashing (27 replies)
179. Bars Leaks Liquid Aluminum (16 replies)
180. What is a Dangermouse? (3 replies)
181. Help a know nothing. (3 replies)
182. What's your fetish? (47 replies)
183. I think I might be a very very lucky man (10 replies)
184. Dragon Eggs Compostion = HE? (4 replies)
185. Question on Ball Mills (27 replies)
186. Nitromethane Question (4 replies)
187. X:Y:Z KMnO4:Zn:S (16 replies)
188. Wound Profiles of Military Ammunition (23 replies)
189. Kill More Kids! (5 replies)
190. X Ray of Different Material (13 replies)
191. Nuclear Detonation In Space (10 replies)
192. Saddam is dead (72 replies)
193. Ouch that HURTS. Flash bites back (14 replies)
194. ATF Explosive Regulations? (4 replies)
195. NH4NO3 bomb detonator (7 replies)
196. Dvorak Simplifed Keyboard (10 replies)
197. Satellite Internet & Porn (21 replies)
198. information on lathes (11 replies)
199. whats inside (2 replies)
200. Potassium Chlorate Black powder? (11 replies)
201. Hot plate stirrers (0 replies)
202. Innovations in Robotics... (3 replies)
203. Electrical light socket wiring question (7 replies)
204. This can't be for real (14 replies)
205. Free download videos/docos/banned books/etc (3 replies)
206. Boiling Sulfuric acid (1 replies)
207. Robert Alberg/Kenneth Olsen (Ricin Manuf.) (3 replies)
208. One hundred most commonly found explosives. (0 replies)
209. EMP schematics (5 replies)
210. KNO3 for NH4NO3 (or NaNO3) and K2SO4 ? (13 replies)
211. Paranoia (12 replies)
212. Ammonium nitrate shelf life? (2 replies)
213. Who's a rat? (9 replies)
214. KNO3 Smoke Hazards (5 replies)
215. Cleaning my lab but have little time to make good chems disapear (11 replies)
216. BTNEC experiences? (1 replies)
217. Converting certain airsoft make/model guns to fire one or more fatal projectiles (4 replies)
218. Weird coming from the USA (6 replies)
219. A possible security breach notification!... (13 replies)
220. Research chemicals (23 replies)
221. Another Step Towards Totalitarianism (12 replies)
222. Totse rolls over on its k3wls (43 replies)
223. Guerilla Combat (2 replies)
224. New user with some questions on getting files (2 replies)
225.
226.
223.
This is not224.
225. Does Zaibatsu yet live? (6 replies)
226. Eliteforum - I find this very questionable (15 replies)
227. Uproar over youtube key bumping videos (5 replies)
228. A thought about an airgun gatling ... (1 replies)
229. New Look to Forum (4 replies)
230. DBC Pyrotechnics (2 replies)
231. Phenol from Toluene (1 replies)
232. Dreams (23 replies)
233. Todays rant : EDITED (3 replies)
234. Nuclear Batteries in laptops (12 replies)
235. Pranks? (16 replies)
236. The Hutchison Effect (5 replies)
237. God Bless Michael Richards AKA Kramer (26 replies)
238. We're saved! (2 replies)
239. KGB agent poisoned (47 replies)
240. New Forum Look (18 replies)
241. What do you do? (21 replies)
242. Obsolete Military Hardware (12 replies)
243. Robot sentinel (5 replies)
244. John A.Minnery who is it? (10 replies)
245. Estonian Security-related Document (0 replies)
246. Bit of related news (13 replies)
247. Another example of fearmongering (12 replies)
248. Nearly party time!! Whoohooooo!! (30 replies)
249. My Dog (12 replies)
250. Where To Buy Chemicals In The UK (15 replies)
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251. A little introduction (4 replies)

252. Monkeys are 6 times stronger than men (10 replies)
253. Kids Use AP for Revenge Attack in Australia (8 replies)
254. Los Alamos Primer (0 replies)
255. My PETN Synth.... (9 replies)
256. Not-so-non-lethal? (7 replies)
257. Can you identify this explosive?? (8 replies)
258. War Nerd on DIME(The metal dust explosive) (1 replies)
259. Your experience with lead styphnate (1 replies)
260. Potassium perchlorate (4 replies)
261. Meet the kings of KEWL... (15 replies)
262. Burying nitromethane (8 replies)
263. A little insight into the american education system (11 replies)
264. Discussion on Sabotage, and request. (17 replies)
265. Invisibility cloak (6 replies)
266. Mailing ammunition to the UK (45 replies)
267. Burns (10 replies)
268. A Russian member perhaps? (3 replies)
269. Soviet Agent Hides (6 replies)
270. I didn't expect it to start so soon. (6 replies)
271. Is this a joke or am I dreaming? (5 replies)
272. South Park makes a reference to "sheeple" (6 replies)
273. 18 months for making AP (26 replies)
274. Free International Calls (From USA Only) (2 replies)
275. Murder by Cancer (13 replies)
276. Best Organic Chem. Books/Texts (1 replies)
277. Changes to Australia's "security sensitive hazardous substances" legislation... (16 replies)
278. urushiol (2 replies)
279. If you died... (26 replies)
280. 'Video evidence, what video evidence?' (6 replies)
281. Liquid Dinitrogen Tetroxide (9 replies)
282. ATM Hacking (7 replies)
283. a car that drives itself (6 replies)
284. Swinging Dartmouth (2 replies)
285. The ball mill (8 replies)
286. The Great Escape (0 replies)
287. extracting sodium (16 replies)
288. Whats wrong with Rapidshare? (19 replies)
289. Great Firearms Racks! (1 replies)
290. LSD Being Tested on British Troops (20 replies)
291. A dream for America (2 replies)
292. WW2 Nazi tank found in near-pristine condition in a lake! (10 replies)
293. Im a rokker, yeah! (21 replies)
294. Best Gen Chem. Prof Ever! UNL Prof Arrested Over Distributing Explosives (9 replies)
295. ATF arrests evil Briton in Northern California (12 replies)
296. Recommendations on Hydraulic Presses (7 replies)
297. "Ingenious experiment" with lightning (2 replies)
298. 686 Book Flood . Keep the newbies busy (1 replies)
299. Candy Bar "Bomb" (17 replies)
300. Shooting in Dawson College (Montreal) (19 replies)
301. Ebook reader (2 replies)
302. Australian Members (25 replies)
303. Aviation Security (0 replies)
304. In pursuit of understanding (11 replies)
305. Dry Ice / Acetone "slush" (4 replies)
306. How about that "Bird Flu?" (5 replies)
307. Hand-held rocket launcher (11 replies)
308. Percussion Caps? (0 replies)
309. Opening shotgun shells (5 replies)
310. Delta Force ? (0 replies)
311. starting them young (11 replies)
312. frustrated attempt of HDN detonation....(sorry by fortuitous repeating of subject) (1 replies)
313. New OCR software, open source (3 replies)
314. Anti-Terrorism Expert Sneaks Explosives Aboard Plane (30 replies)
315. Police Arrest Teen Bombers - Drano bombers! (17 replies)
316. Cash, weapons, explosives seized in raid (6 replies)
317. improvised softair shotgun (6 replies)
318. Australian Teen Faces Explosives Charges for Chlorine Bomb (17 replies)
319. Conn. Student Heads To Court On Explosives Charge (5 replies)
320. Terrorist training manual (18 replies)
321.
322.
319.
This is not320.
321. Private forum and the downfall of Rapidshare links. (17 replies)
322. improvised chem equipment/junkyard style (7 replies)
323. Quick entry options (6 replies)
324. Covert Hostage Bomb Collar (1 replies)
325. Which Branch Of Military? (5 replies)
326. Cast TNT (6 replies)
327. Pure Ammonium Nitrate (15 replies)
328. Getting credit for uploads (1 replies)
329. Basic Fitness/Abilities (46 replies)
330. Material for mould? (2 replies)
331. PDF file 'fingerprints' (12 replies)
332. Drying hygroscopic chemicals (17 replies)
333. Legal Road to Explosives (5 replies)
334. Lets discuss the social dynamics of the movie "Fight Club" (26 replies)
335. On the Creation of a Country (38 replies)
336. Where do I start in this...thing of mine? (25 replies)
337. Judge orders online sale of Unabomber goods (6 replies)
338. Bombing cases often take longer to solve (8 replies)
339. Pipe Bomb Arrest (10 replies)
340. Amazon downloading group (5 replies)
341. Chinese alleged to harvest organs from Falun Gong practitioners (3 replies)
342. Support the Theatre (with explosions) (6 replies)
343. The conversion of model/toy guns. (0 replies)
344. Non-lethal devices (4 replies)
345. Want Help with Cell phone hacking (10 replies)
346. New weapons used in Lebanon (9 replies)
347. OCR'ing FTP (4 replies)
348. Favorite Music? (3 replies)
349. Poor Flash Performance (9 replies)
350. Lucid Dreaming (16 replies)
351. How long have you gone without sex?...hehe (41 replies)
352. ALPS Holo Problem (0 replies)
353. Torritos!!! (7 replies)
354. I never claimed to be a rightous addict... (1 replies)
355. Looking for find and copy software. (19 replies)
356. Book OCR issues (4 replies)
357. Something new to me.. (5 replies)
358. Idiots and AP (4 replies)
359. Liquefying air, or oxygen enriched air. (5 replies)
360. Interesting read (8 replies)
361. purple smoke (10 replies)
362. Para-Nitration of Toluene (1 replies)
363. Careers in pyrotechics/demolition... (10 replies)
364. vitamin c (6 replies)
365. White phosphorus... ampoule (5 replies)
366. Thermite Help! (13 replies)
367. Idiot (14 replies)
368. Methods of interrogation - forewarned is forearmed! (20 replies)
369. Duplicating UV markings (7 replies)
370. Picric acid synth overdone? Nitration buffs (6 replies)
371. Frying down power installation of a building/flat (6 replies)
372. What Weapon? (47 replies)
373. Misinformation: 4th of July. Wikipedia? (9 replies)
374. Join the Fireworks Alliance (3 replies)
375. Black powder not affected by static? (12 replies)
376. Clearing a building, quickly.....and quietly (24 replies)
377. Inert Atmosphere (6 replies)
378. Hello -- New to the Forum (4 replies)
379. The Sheeple have Bleated! (3 replies)
380. Affordable Ball Mill (5 replies)
381. Beginner explosives (28 replies)
382. Introduction and Book Offering (6 replies)
383. Rather esoteric handgun question (10 replies)
384. exiglue review (1 replies)
385. Federal Law favors us for once?! (16 replies)
386. KCl03 from match heads (12 replies)
387. Make a cheap electronic Detonator (3 replies)
388. Airsoft Ammo Sting Grenades (9 replies)
389. A Rather good day. (7 replies)
390. Guanidine Nitrate - C(NH2)3NO3 - Sensitizer Issues (2 replies)
391. Yowie/Bigfoot hunt (13 replies)
392. What happens?? (0 replies)
393. Hazards of Bleach > Chlorate? (4 replies)
394. homemade drying oven (6 replies)
395. Defcon 14 (5 replies)
396. Ripping copy-protected DVDs (7 replies)
397. editing posts... (2 replies)
398.
399.
396.
This is not397.
398. Boric to Nitric? (13 replies)
399. Offer to you: Bruker IR Introduction (1 replies)
400. Munitions Factory Explodes in South Australia (12 replies)
401. Simple Timed Fuse (3 min +) (6 replies)
402. Interesting site on pulsejets. (1 replies)
403. Legit breakins (8 replies)
404. Answer to Americas Army the Game? (16 replies)
405. Computer Tech of the Week (2 replies)
406. Pepper spray deployment (11 replies)
407. Government word watch list. (30 replies)
408. LICENCE FREE FIREARMS:europe loopholes (25 replies)
409. The Doors of Perception: (8 replies)
410. Fear, an effective deterant? (3 replies)
411. www.anarchistcookbook.com hacked (2 replies)
412. To Polverone... (0 replies)
413. Anonymous package delivery (7 replies)
414. Speeding up browsing (1 replies)
415. Importing silencers (18 replies)
416. Nanoenergetics (7 replies)
417. Rtpb? (5 replies)
418. Funny glitch on the site (0 replies)
419. 700 Ton ANFO charge to be set off (0 replies)
420. Women, Pyro & Related Hobbies (4 replies)
421. What's a good ebook reading device? (6 replies)
422. Magnesium Nitrate (2 replies)
423. Unusual search error (6 replies)
424. Britian monitoring EVERY car movement! (9 replies)
425. Best Food Ever! (39 replies)
426. Tritonal (3 replies)
427. Fuses in ww1 grenades (12 replies)
428. I gave a review to the planetary camera thing (0 replies)
429. Books available (2 replies)
430. Plans (6 replies)
431. A Warning (3 replies)
432. Posting Question (1 replies)
433. kno3 (1 replies)
434. What would you change? (6 replies)
435. Primary explosives from primers (1 replies)
436. problems with ANFO Explosives (3 replies)
437. Does anyone have a Rapidshare account? (6 replies)
438. double salts (0 replies)
439. Fake ID information on IRC (2 replies)
440. School Regulations (11 replies)
441. decrypting? (8 replies)
442. Thermite Fuel Air Explosive Devices aka Hellhounds (5 replies)
443. Prison Break. (56 replies)
444. Erythritol Tetranitrate (2 replies)
445. AP filtering (3 replies)
446. servus (0 replies)
447. newbie introduction (3 replies)
448. Tor anonymous internet network (1 replies)
449. Nitroglycerin in detonators (4 replies)
450. Online Ordering?? (0 replies)
451. Tannerite targets detonation (1 replies)
452. Attacked! (24 replies)
453. Nicotine (4 replies)
454. Ninja rocks?? (9 replies)
455. Security measures on my next computer? (51 replies)
456. A new explosive (8 replies)
457. Peroxide and carbon? (2 replies)
458. Ways to mislead/stop police dogs 2? (6 replies)
459. What would you put in an emergency kit (41 replies)
460. FICTION: NBK - Escape from Dreamland (1 replies)
461. US plans to "fight" (censor) the net revealed: (6 replies)
462. Little Spudgun + Crossbow Session (0 replies)
463. mosler safe info (1 replies)
464. I had a dream... (1 replies)
465. I used to think alcohol was difficult to buy... (2 replies)
466. Problems seeing posts (1 replies)
467. Ripping Google Books (2 replies)
468. EMP Hard Drive Cleaner (38 replies)
469. NBK asked me... (5 replies)
470. The Crucible (10 replies)
471. The Triumphant Return of Megalomania (13 replies)
472. What is a "K3Wl"? (3 replies)
473. The "Anti-Pyrotechnics" Movement (10 replies)
474. Abnormal Picric Acid (5 replies)
475.
476.
473.
This is not474.
475. Survival and Austere Medicine (2 replies)
476. Time to start preparing for the end of 2005.... (0 replies)
477. Pharmaceuticals? (0 replies)
478. Iron oxide from iron filings (0 replies)
479. Underwater AP cratermakers (11 replies)
480. Score: Nazis 24, Negros 0 (10 replies)
481. George Carlin on New Orleans: (7 replies)
482. New FTP hosting (0 replies)
483. APC gone soft???!!! (5 replies)
484. The preparatory manual of explosives by Jared Ledgard (10 replies)
485. oGame (1 replies)
486. Forum archive (7 replies)
487. How useful is N-butyl acetate? (0 replies)
488. Roguesci forbidden in Germany? (0 replies)
489. PeerGuardian 2 (1 replies)
490. Blair bans certain websites! (3 replies)
491. So, who on here is an English major? (10 replies)
492. Who started roguescience.org? (18 replies)
493. Strange experience logging in (55 replies)
494. Why so little discussion? (93 replies)
495. Crypto-Ransom Virus (26 replies)
496. Video surveillance (32 replies)
497. Star Wars, Episode 3 SUXS! (31 replies)
498. Looking for external laptop battery (7 replies)
499. Products for Engineers & The Fellow Who Lives in my Corner (17 replies)
500. Future of oil (17 replies)

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Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5
501. Equation needs balancing (5 replies)

502. And now for some comic relief... (9 replies)
503. 07/04/05 (37 replies)
504. A Use for the Self-Decrypting PGP Utility (11 replies)
505. Banned emails (59 replies)
506. FICTION: The Job, Part 2 (2 replies)
507. The $100,000 book rip-off (24 replies)
508. FICTION: NBK - The Dark Lord (23 replies)
509. Mixture of Greek Fire (21 replies)
510. PGP Secure-Wipe Failure (26 replies)
511. HE incendiary (11 replies)
512. The New Pope was a Nazi! (44 replies)
513. A Guide to Internet Flaming (56 replies)
514. nitration of aromatic substrates in zeolite cages (2 replies)
515. Should I get a Blog? (46 replies)
516. Lightning Projectors and Railguns without Rails? (23 replies)
517. beginnings? (23 replies)
518. IP address spoofing. (41 replies)
519. Raise your glasses in a toast to Myrol (47 replies)
520. Modifying Airgun's esp. for German's! (42 replies)
521. Crime-Time Television (59 replies)
522. Dinosaur flesh discovered! (20 replies)
523. Chlorinated dioxane on par with nerve gasses? (5 replies)
524. Safe Identification and Defeat Guide (57 replies)
525. Diphosgene (2 replies)
526. Isobutylidene diurea 31-0-0 (2 replies)
527. Wiping the Firefox cache (11 replies)
528. Picric Acid; Paper Dye for Love Letters! (29 replies)
529. Acetone peroxide: worth the risk? (3 replies)
530. Humor: Top 100 things If I was Ruler of the World (29 replies)
531. Synthetikal - a new chemistry forum (2 replies)
532. Hostage situations (87 replies)
533. Potassium Chlorate method guidance needed (2 replies)
534. Letter John Cleese to the USA (50 replies)
535. Good for a laugh (26 replies)
536. Defeating Airport X-Ray (58 replies)
537. Some ugly accident pictures (0 replies)
538. I'll be away for the next months (2 replies)
539. P2P securely (2 replies)
540. Lets all get our 'counterterrorism' degrees from university (19 replies)
541. Military propaganda in schools (54 replies)
542. Chimeric Breeders (155 replies)
543. Mad Science (2 replies)
544. some silver fulminate (1 replies)
545. Cold Fusion, Looks like it isn't Si-Fi anymore!! (52 replies)
546. Media stunts (5 replies)
547. Removing -Cl gently (5 replies)
548. Need help with my mathematics (AP related) (4 replies)
549. RE factor of ANNM and other explosives (0 replies)
550. Gmail account (19 replies)
551. mmm....beer (10 replies)
552. MNN and MNT nitration ratios (1 replies)
553. Another visitor... stay a while... stay forever. (1 replies)
554. 3M Security Glass (24 replies)
555. SmarTruck - how to spend silly money to get a toy (5 replies)
556. High School Chemistry demo (4 replies)
557. Video file splitter (5 replies)
558. Guncotton the Crappy way (16 replies)
559. PGP Changing. (6 replies)
560. 40mm grenade pistol (8 replies)
561. ANFO with Tolouene or Xylene as sensitizer? (7 replies)
562. safety distances (27 replies)
563. fake IDs (4 replies)
564. Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook 7th edition (0 replies)
565. Mercury fulminate question (8 replies)
566. Anyone from Norway? (4 replies)
567. Hello Big Brother. (12 replies)
568. Grandpa's blasting mix? (9 replies)
569. Bringing home the guns (11 replies)
570. Woodworking stuff for the FTP? (4 replies)
571.
572.
569.
This is not570.
571. From crossbows to cryptography (4 replies)
572. Am-241, Smoke Detectors, and Nuclear Weapons (6 replies)
573. Computer question (12 replies)
574. Looking for a Keylogger (1 replies)
575. I need help with my future! (14 replies)
576. copwatch.com (2 replies)
577. Carnivore is no more (1 replies)
578. hydrogen peroxide synthesis ??? (0 replies)
579. Suicide soon (120 replies)
580. A math problem stuck in my head (3 replies)
581. government is scared of FAEs (5 replies)
582. question for Mn2O7 (4 replies)
583. Need two books if anyone has a link. (4 replies)
584. Firefox (10 replies)
585. Airgun + Coilgun? (1 replies)
586. N-Tetrachloroethylene Diamine (1 replies)
587. Quest for longest chemical name (5 replies)
588. Say No to Grandpa Joe (4 replies)
589. Looking for file replacement tool (3 replies)
590. What would you do if ...? (3 replies)
591. NG accident- need advice (5 replies)
592. RDX from urotropine (1 replies)
593. D2O, Heavy water distillation (5 replies)
594. Before you post.... (0 replies)
595. HPLC software help needed (0 replies)
596. URGENT: How to register restorer2000 (7 replies)
597. favorite song/favorite band thread (61 replies)
598. Greetings and a quick question (4 replies)
599. Virus Problem (11 replies)
600. trenchcoat self defense (7 replies)
601. KNO3 in Australia (0 replies)
602. KewL Hunting (2 replies)
603. The E&W bit torrent... (4 replies)
604. Urea Formaldehyde (2 replies)
605. DMNB - spoofing C4 from a particular source. (2 replies)
606. azodicarbonamide (1 replies)
607. What did you get for xmass? (12 replies)
608. The Paranormal (37 replies)
609. Brown Noise (13 replies)
610. ANAl (amonium nitrate:aluminum) (10 replies)
611. Potassium/Sodium Chlorate + Vaseline (Petroleum Jelly) (4 replies)
612. The Great Phonecard Scam (3 replies)
613. The Plague! (9 replies)
614. SW Wanted : SystematiChem (2 replies)
615. Killer: live role playing game (4 replies)
616. suprnova is gone (0 replies)
617. How and where to start? (3 replies)
618. I have a photoshop quandary (2 replies)
619. Need a terabyte of email? (8 replies)
620. Can anyone translate Czechian? (2 replies)
621. Secure your Computer (12 replies)
622. MenuEdit Registration Needed (4 replies)
623. Fake Documents: A Report on BBC (4 replies)
624. Translations (0 replies)
625. Roguesci unofficial FTP - testing phase (3 replies)
626. ChemOffice Ultra 2005 (1 replies)
627. Software requests... Please lend a hand :) (6 replies)
628. Conversion Calculators Online (3 replies)
629. where's the hive (6 replies)
630. Propane and butane... (6 replies)
631. Parcel Post (4 replies)
632. Did you know? (51 replies)
633. Fd up movies (80 replies)
634. ossible bandwith-illimited solution to share files for all roguesci member (7 replies)
635. Software request: any of the CABO databases (1 replies)
636. Full Auto .22 Sub Machine Gun, Silenced... (7 replies)
637. AW ban over but opposition conducting tests... (6 replies)
638. Stupid and hilarious e-mail (4 replies)
639. Patron Saint of Explosives (5 replies)
640. Stab or Slash? (22 replies)
641. Firetruck Flamethrower (2 replies)
642. Detonating Thermite.. (7 replies)
643. Anybody we know? (3 replies)
644. Psychoanalyze Yourself! (14 replies)
645. Is the 380 tons in Iraq the smoking gun to AQ? (0 replies)
646. The Problem with FTP's (4 replies)
647. Half-Life 2 on the way :) (19 replies)
648.
649.
646.
This is not647.
648. Uses of Mercury? (16 replies)
649. Message to NBK (2 replies)
650. CNC (or G code) help....please? (10 replies)
651. translation software (5 replies)
652. hi (4 replies)
653. alternative file sharing (1 replies)
654. Did you vote today? (54 replies)
655. hushmail and others (4 replies)
656. The end of the Oil Age (18 replies)
657. "Modex Hybrid"??? (1 replies)
658. Wi-Fi "Bomb" draws authorities (4 replies)
659. Tetrameric Acetone Peroxide (5 replies)
660. improvised fuse (1 replies)
661. Brisancy? (20 replies)
662. Chem lab. (3 replies)
663. EFP tutorial?? (2 replies)
664. Dumb question about Roguesci homepage. (3 replies)
665. 350 TONS RDX, HMX, PETN in the wind! (18 replies)
666. storing gasoline and diesel (9 replies)
667. Aussie mans house raided for ordering books online (1 replies)
668. Arguments relating to religion (29 replies)
669. ftp/e-mail subscription (0 replies)
670. The Complete Metalsmith (0 replies)
671. .zip file password cracker (9 replies)
672. Newcomer's Ftp (0 replies)
673. The skunkworks (15 replies)
674. Bike Thieves (6 replies)
675. Sulfuric in Oz (8 replies)
676. Help on units of concentration please? (2 replies)
677. Any ex/military in the forum? (13 replies)
678. The Ig Nobel Prizes for 2004 have been announced! (0 replies)
679. Ansari X prize (8 replies)
680. question on rating members (8 replies)
681. Phosgene and chloropicrin in Bratislava (0 replies)
682. An interesting conspiracy site (1 replies)
683. wanted: dongle crack for spartan 04 (2 replies)
684. wanted: The Combined Chemical Dictionary 2002 (3 replies)
685. McDonalds "Bombed" by irate k3wls! (13 replies)
686. hitman (0 replies)
687. painful creativity request (4 replies)
688. toxicity (9 replies)
689. Purchasing and Owning Land Anonymously (7 replies)
690. The most brisant cracker ! (13 replies)
691. Suggestions for a graphics card for video editing (22 replies)
692. Loyalty Day? (0 replies)
693. Time for a PC reformat :( (5 replies)
694. A problem with Smokeless Powder (NC) (7 replies)
695. Tables (3 replies)
696. Bush - Kerry election parody (5 replies)
697. 9/11 Third Anniversary Today (15 replies)
698. Australian Embassy bombing (27 replies)
699. Ballon Incendiary (3 replies)
700. Curiousity Only (3 replies)
701. AP matches (6 replies)
702. Google Search Tips (5 replies)
703. just another way of anonymous file transfer (0 replies)
704. anonymous blog (2 replies)
705. anonymous mail (1 replies)
706. anonymous chatting (1 replies)
707. anonymous browsing (1 replies)
708. Yodel Bank - transferring money anonymously (3 replies)
709. US plans portable nuclear power plants (11 replies)
710. Freenet - A Free Net (11 replies)
711. Let me see if i can post or not... (0 replies)
712. what exactly is that makes you into this stuff? (17 replies)
713. The Chemistry of Powder and Explosives. (10 replies)
714. Implosion type FAE (18 replies)
715. Who wanna pay for free information? weaponscombat.com (1 replies)
716. Of axt and liars (0 replies)
717. problems posting and changing password (2 replies)
718. roguesci tshirts to raise money (20 replies)
719. LMAO at this one. (4 replies)
720. My new page on Oxy-hydrogen explosions (4 replies)
721. Peer Guardian (0 replies)
722. Its a Boy! (4 replies)
723. Decomposing monoammonium phosphate? (3 replies)
724. Zinc Chloride Solubility (7 replies)
725.
726.
723.
This is not724.
725. Xload's site (1 replies)
726. Now that things are stable again...... (8 replies)
727. Script problems? (0 replies)
728. torrents (5 replies)
729. Nut with an armored bulldozer... (2 replies)
730. Pathetic and Hipocritical Laws (7 replies)
731. n3ver 2 0ld 2 B k3wl- (3 replies)
732. Tetrahydrofuran in Oz. (2 replies)
733. A quick question for robin (or anyone else who might know) (0 replies)
734. Nitro accident (non-explosive) - HELP ! (8 replies)
735. Formaldehyde from Hexamine (1 replies)
736. Port of Texas, anyone? (1 replies)
737. Nitrazine (1 replies)
738. What's your favorite "man-church"/tool-store? (9 replies)
739. EOD in Iraq (2 replies)
740. Ready.gov parody (3 replies)
741. Acetone Peroxide Through Ozone (10 replies)
742. Development in Iraq (6 replies)
743. Chinese Alchemy ??? (9 replies)
744. Nick berg terrorist video (53 replies)
745. Body disposal (42 replies)
746. Gelled acetone/nc? (4 replies)
747. Summer is Fireworks Season (9 replies)
748. Good for nitration or not? (5 replies)
749. Look at this bullshit [plagerism alert] (26 replies)
750. Helo kills - Thermal Imaging view... (Graphic) (32 replies)

Log in
Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5
751. DEA Agent Shot Himself - whoops (20 replies)

752. Good source of Mg? (8 replies)
753. Terrorists and AN restrictions (8 replies)
754. Secret Service taking Job to new levels (5 replies)
755. I see dead people (28 replies)
756. Nice "I Love Explosives" Decal (0 replies)
757. Anybody know how to edit djvu files? (5 replies)
758. Knives, the Real Steel. (19 replies)
759. Decent Piece of Iraqi Home-engineering (3 replies)
760. Slashdot: This Robot Collects Fingerprints (0 replies)
761. Police Foil Bank Robber's Scuba Getaway (14 replies)
762. Binary Cracker. (5 replies)
763. Entomopter: Exploration or Espionage of the Future? (2 replies)
764. Detonation Films (1 replies)
765. In search of opinions...APWAX? (15 replies)
766. Black book of arson by Lyle Whitney (4 replies)
767. How to increase your AP yield... (13 replies)
768. Ghost town (25 replies)
769. slaughterhouse (Question) (13 replies)
770. New Identity (3 replies)
771. Perhaps the dumbest thing ever with a 25 shot cake! (1 replies)
772. Are rockets legal in Australia? (4 replies)
773. 3.5 tonnes of stolen ammonium nitrate in Australia (6 replies)
774. Potash of Ammonium Nitrate (3 replies)
775. 660 kg of dynamite and 5000 detonators under your bed? (7 replies)
776. Metal additives in dynamites (6 replies)
777. A little close for comfort (18 replies)
778. Magnesium Extraction From Epsom Salts (8 replies)
779. Explosive Enthusiasts say the darndest things..... (19 replies)
780. Replicas and their sizes (6 replies)
781. Look out, it's more BS from Australia's tabloids (6 replies)
782. The Forum has been ATTACKED! (4 replies)
783. Improvised fridge (7 replies)
784. Booby traps (3 replies)
785. Hexachlorobenzene (7 replies)
786. Making the Ultimate Suit of Body Armor (6 replies)
787. aeroponics or aero-hydroponics (1 replies)
788. More Stable AP? No Way! (7 replies)
789. Microwave Concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide Lab (12 replies)
790. Do you get the subliminal message? (4 replies)
791. Giving up your DNA ? (3 replies)
792. Light in the water (8 replies)
793. testing KNO3 (9 replies)
794. a few quick issues (6 replies)
795. How would you... (2 replies)
796. Forum woes and impending doom. (17 replies)
797. E-Books... (5 replies)
798. power labs (1 replies)
799. PETN charges-amounts needed to do the job (7 replies)
800. Bionics - Robotic legs (0 replies)
801. Book request: Build your own fuel cells (6 replies)
802. Dmso=msm (2 replies)
803. Kewls and Cakes (3 replies)
804. Phone Sex (2 replies)
805. fall-out (of hair that is) (5 replies)
806. Annm +al (7 replies)
807. Historical K3\/\/ |_ ness (0 replies)
808. fistloads (9 replies)
809. Searching for a M72 66mm Law Rocket (8 replies)
810. AP used in bread making?? (7 replies)
811. A short guide to "tagging" (3 replies)
812. basic chem know-how ? (7 replies)
813. Oxygen on the Sun? (7 replies)
814. About Madrid's bombs (24 replies)
815. A request (1 replies)
816. EOD school pics (11 replies)
817. Physics experiment (9 replies)
818. My greetings, hello to the NeWb post. (7 replies)
819. Good news (5 replies)
820. Please help! How does this beautiful magic trick work? (1 replies)
821.
822.
819.
This is not820.
821. Does someones want to correspond with me ? (2 replies)
822. How to throw knifes ? (9 replies)
823. Plucking Video (6 replies)
824. An white smoke (0 replies)
825. Jackasses of the Month (7 replies)
826. Anatomy of a Firework (2 replies)
827. Financing your life (1 replies)
828. Pernitric acid (1 replies)
829. how bad is google being censored? (13 replies)
830. KNO3 -> KClO3 question (3 replies)
831. Dogs (2 replies)
832. basic/newbies gide to distilling nitric acid (5 replies)
833. Iron Titanium Oxide (4 replies)
834. Lego (12 replies)
835. Sodium/potassium chlorate preparation? (1 replies)
836. An/mnn/c (1 replies)
837. Train Explosion in Iran (1 replies)
838. Voluntary Human Extinction (6 replies)
839. Glycerin (1 replies)
840. Copper (II) Permanganate (2 replies)
841. Extracting Red Phosphorus (6 replies)
842. Kids party ideas (15 replies)
843. Aluminum Powder (KMnO4/Al/S Flash) (8 replies)
844. Huge Meth Lab Bust Video (5 replies)
845. Get them while you can... (0 replies)
846. Help Save The Second Amendment (1 replies)
847. Largest (20 replies)
848. Buying/Finding Glassware (7 replies)
849. basic fiream care qurestion (7 replies)
850. Piracy Raids In Australia (0 replies)
851. Brainwashing Manual (0 replies)
852. Has someone on the forum been up to no good? (4 replies)
853. One time encryption (4 replies)
854. Hamas, PLO and the tactics used (5 replies)
855. Can you help? (2 replies)
856. Massive EGDN yeilds? (3 replies)
857. So you think you're good at math? (16 replies)
858. Caveman Chemistry (1 replies)
859. GE Plant for landmine location (6 replies)
860. The copy of Call Of Duty that's on the FTP (14 replies)
861. "Helping" someone lose their job. (13 replies)
862. How to POST images. (7 replies)
863. Ballistic Sheeting (11 replies)
864. the dumbest question ever (4 replies)
865. non-conical/hemispherical SC's (1 replies)
866. acetic anhydride (8 replies)
867. source of dimethyl aniline (2 replies)
868. The ultimate SC (2 replies)
869. Possible performance enhances for Zn+S (3 replies)
870. What to do if you get hurt (1 replies)
871. The Post Office (11 replies)
872. samosa's Deep Thought (14 replies)
873. Digital Scales (9 replies)
874. car (borrowing) with t.v remote (2 replies)
875. South African Members (0 replies)
876. Street Lights = Grow Lights? (19 replies)
877. Diesel (22 replies)
878. NH4ClO4 Based eplosives ? (0 replies)
879. 2nd newbie kno3 question (13 replies)
880. Chlorine+Alcohol+12 year olds=hurt (10 replies)
881. Cant Find them.... (8 replies)
882. Nitro Acid HNO3 (10 replies)
883. CAD Program (21 replies)
884. ittle known facts of Napalm (9 replies)
885. Legality (18 replies)
886. Home made nuclear device (53 replies)
887. Nano Thermites! (12 replies)
888. Rogue Science (7 replies)
889. diphe/nilethane di/isocianato (6 replies)
890. petn by H2SO4 + AN (8 replies)
891. Interesting Videos (27 replies)
892. Converting .mov to any other format (2 replies)
893. Magic Lantern (2 replies)
894. First use of land mines? (1 replies)
895. Idiot of the month (28 replies)
896. Cruise Missle Man Arrested in NZ? (5 replies)
897. PARTAL detonation (7 replies)
898.
899.
896.
This is not897.
898. Apache Sniping (19 replies)
899. newbie kno3 question (2 replies)
900. Blast chamber (4 replies)
901. where to post about mailign stuff? (6 replies)
902. looking for italians members! (1 replies)
903. Myrol and nitroesters (1 replies)
904. Car Bomb detonated in Sydney (44 replies)
905. Nitric acid (4 replies)
906. Optimizing Black Powder for cannons, mortars, or pyrotechnics (14 replies)
907. My new computer! (24 replies)
908. Visco fuse (1 replies)
909. Oxygen (6 replies)
910. HELP-hopelessly stuck with AP (17 replies)
911. Two possible lead Azide replacements? (7 replies)
912. Einstein's Riddle (13 replies)
913. Where to get the components for Bp in england? (20 replies)
914. Your, Trigger/Motivation/Inspiration (20 replies)
915. Leaving all my loves behind (64 replies)
916. The surreal US security machine (20 replies)
917. Alcohol and Distilleries (3 replies)
918. The profecy is true (17 replies)
919. Looking for diagrams... (2 replies)
920. PGP Unsafe? (28 replies)
921. Aluminum Sulphate (0 replies)
922. Dog grabs firework video (9 replies)
923. The Sopranos (4 replies)
924. 11 year old in UK arrested over treehouse... (11 replies)
925. Ramjet Design Discussion (7 replies)
926. Storing Explosives....I know its stupid... (27 replies)
927. Can us n00bz still post? (5 replies)
928. Hackthissite.org (29 replies)
929. Military Ammo Case (12 replies)
930. What does RTPB mean? (3 replies)
931. The origin of the Grinch. (18 replies)
932. Whats everyone got planned for new years eve? (31 replies)
933. New ruger 10/22 (11 replies)
934. Det cord in the concrete (7 replies)
935. Kewls on tape! (52 replies)
936. HNO3 Synth using HCl (3 replies)
937. Underground Bunker made by myself (23 replies)
938. Someone help me out here, Zeolites... (4 replies)
939. Nigger manual (135 replies)
940. Isopropyl peroxide? (0 replies)
941. AP mass production (2 replies)
942. Aluminum+Pyrodex (10 replies)
943. Learning to Drive (20 replies)
944. What ever happened to FTP Disks (1 replies)
945. Urban Survival (16 replies)
946. giant fountain w/ whistle comp? (6 replies)
947. MSN Encryption Plugin (10 replies)
948. Indestructible eh? (48 replies)
949. test (10 replies)
950. RTPB's (25 replies)
951. Blow gun dart poison (20 replies)
952. Testing of unknown explosives (9 replies)
953. DIY Cruise Missile Grounded (31 replies)
954. Carbon Rods (5 replies)
955. Nitro paint-explosive? (13 replies)
956. cal hypo and sugar (4 replies)
957. Ammoniumperchlorate (9 replies)
958. The Scan Scam (25 replies)
959. How to calculate critical mass for fissionable materials? (11 replies)
960. Ammonium Dichromate (6 replies)
961. 6.00 for a lb of Citric Acid? (5 replies)
962. my god i remember ironwarlock (5 replies)
963. Google knows best? (8 replies)
964. hexamine dinitrate and nitromethane (1 replies)
965. Chem Software (3 replies)
966. Radio Match 2 (1 replies)
967. Sound in relation to depth of a charge of APAN (11 replies)
968. Permanganate Synthesis (13 replies)
969. Different coloured iron oxide? (2 replies)
970. Does anyone know whats happening to my account? (5 replies)
971. New UK Fireworks Laws (13 replies)
972. Michael Moore (37 replies)
973. SImple HV transformer for NItric acid production (6 replies)
974. Forum Customs (7 replies)
975.
976.
973.
This is not974.
975. about kingspaz (30 replies)
976. Persulfates (Peroxydisulfates) (14 replies)
977. Welcome member 5000! (10 replies)
978. multishot barrel loaded guns and mortors weapon (6 replies)
979. What explosive next? (10 replies)
980. any weapon plans for a .308 (6 replies)
981. Newbee (2 replies)
982. Take a look (22 replies)
983. Any Brits Here ? ( special request ) (3 replies)
984. EOD Career (15 replies)
985. "Useless thread" (9 replies)
986. what book (16 replies)
987. Commiserations to all the Aussies out there! (4 replies)
988. Using AP and AN (1 replies)
989. Mega's Story (15 replies)
990. 1st go at AP, gone well (4 replies)
991. Car bomb Crater sizes (Bali nuke?) (11 replies)
992. Creating a ftp community (10 replies)
993. Whats it to be sir? (35 replies)
994. Reliable improvised fuse - Howto (3 replies)
995. Wheel of Time #10 Crossroads of Twilight (3 replies)
996. jpeg encryption (5 replies)
997. Cardboard Tubes (4 replies)
998. Cost: low explosive vs high explosive (8 replies)
999. E&W Private network(Wireless) (14 replies)
1000. Protecting data? Physically hide it?! (25 replies)

Log in
Pages : 1 2 3 4 [5]
1001. [un]Offical Forum Flame Form (13 replies)

1002. Molotov related chemical (4 replies)
1003. War on information? (12 replies)
1004. Pharmacy drug index (3 replies)
1005. Howdy All New to Forum (3 replies)
1006. silver and coper (3 replies)
1007. PGP Disk- More than 1 password (7 replies)
1008. Shimizu's Fireworks, The Art, Science & Technique (4 replies)
1009. drugs (10 replies)
1010. Skin Windows! (13 replies)
1011. remote detonation (3 replies)
1012. Sexual Pyro Arousal (1 replies)
1013. PDF creation? (3 replies)
1014. Pyro laws in florida (0 replies)
1015. What has been your worst accident? (175 replies)
1016. organic synth via electronics (0 replies)
1017. HE explosions (6 replies)
1018. safety of P2P software (1 replies)
1019. Firecrackers (13 replies)
1020. Is it just me, or does Jackass suck? (33 replies)
1021. Halloween fun.... (20 replies)
1022. Imprinting keys... (1 replies)
1023. Hillmans site (4 replies)
1024. Pgp (11 replies)
1025. Small furry creatures ---> Red Mist (34 replies)
1026. Impurities and dyes in Drain H2SO4 (4 replies)
1027. Michael Ammar's "The Crazy Man's Handcuffs" (3 replies)
1028. H2SO4 Accident (4 replies)
1029. Getting shot with a spud gun and the human response (24 replies)
1030. My IP is banned? (14 replies)
1031. Making acetaldehyde or formaldehyde (9 replies)
1032. Safety issues (18 replies)
1033. private investigation (5 replies)
1034. Vote Arnold (funny) (0 replies)
1035. stolen bike (3 replies)
1036. Searching Tips (6 replies)
1037. shit distillation (3 replies)
1038. My precious EMC (5 replies)
1039. TAG and Potassium Nitrate (3 replies)
1040. Can't be just coinsedence.... (3 replies)
1041. More Airport Idiocies (4 replies)
1042. acid and base strength of alcohols (3 replies)
1043. solubility problem (1 replies)
1044. How did you come up with your forum name? (113 replies)
1045. Drop Pops (3 replies)
1046. stuck stoppers (6 replies)
1047. two questions (1 replies)
1048. how I got REAL detos cases (6 replies)
1049. A new gun (14 replies)
1050. CrO3 Ideas? (4 replies)
1051. Detonating Chlorates (7 replies)
1052. RDX by acetic and para (11 replies)
1053. hypobromites (8 replies)
1054. Mr-Eckted is back (1 replies)
1055. copper ammonium complex? (2 replies)
1056. Does It Really Matter? (9 replies)
1057. Creating a FTP server (1 replies)
1058. Snow Machine (6 replies)
1059. AP newbie questions (9 replies)
1060. Where do you want to go from here? (11 replies)
1061. Modified Haber Process (3 replies)
1062. Vestas (strike anywhere matches) (4 replies)
1063. Basketball Bomb (2 replies)
1064. glossary? (3 replies)
1065. anyone have VB6 professional edition or better (16 replies)
1066. Nukes....good or bad..? (16 replies)
1067. Looking for Windows 3.1 (8 replies)
1068. H2SO4 Question (2 replies)
1069. Fruit of Death? (5 replies)
1070. Phosphoric Acid (4 replies)
1071.
1072.
1069.
1070.
1071. Brits: Looking for a job? (2 replies)
1072. milk white NG (3 replies)
1073. Last call forumites (3 replies)
1074. A few questions regarding PGP (2 replies)
1075. German demo group "Farbrausch" kicks ass ! (3 replies)
1076. Greatest Disappointments (6 replies)
1077. forum file sharing (10 replies)
1078. Your Forum member number (6 replies)
1079. The Great Google Hunt (35 replies)
1080. Question on Forum History (RTC) (9 replies)
1081. smuggling help (24 replies)
1082. Sulfuric Acid Absolute Gravity (8 replies)
1083. Help please (5 replies)
1084. An (3 replies)
1085. I need some feedback (9 replies)
1086. It's not good to brag but... (16 replies)
1087. Federal Agents,We Have a Warrant,Open Up! (73 replies)
1088. Disk drive nightmare (7 replies)
1089. well well well :D (3 replies)
1090. Exploding Jawbreaker (3 replies)
1091. New World Order (27 replies)
1092. Activ Ebook security - help needed (7 replies)
1093. metallica extra UK date (0 replies)
1094. I need some help here (3 replies)
1095. Would a safe be safe? (5 replies)
1096. would it be possible to break the roots of my garden cherry tree with blackpowder? (17 replies)
1097. Message for NBK (2 replies)
1098. Sodium Chlorate paper propellant (11 replies)
1099. Looking for powerpoint (3 replies)
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1101. poor chickens (37 replies)
1102. AstroWars (73 replies)
1103. Optimising A TNP Detonation (2 replies)
1104. VCR to DVD (17 replies)
1105. Adobe acrobat help (1 replies)
1106. Some hunting pictures of mine. (10 replies)
1107. My computer woes - any advice? (30 replies)
1108. Australian 7:30 report (abc TV) (36 replies)
1109. Female Members? (69 replies)
1110. Palestinian P2P service flouts system (18 replies)
1111. Hot wiring cars/burglary & PETTY Crimes (15 replies)
1112. americas army shareware !!!!!!! (6 replies)
1113. Fire starters (not magnesium based) (9 replies)
1114. New York Blackout (18 replies)
1115. A Wild Idea for Tactical Insertions... (22 replies)
1116. Microsoft - They're watching you (52 replies)
1117. Military explosive with insitu formed detonator (11 replies)
1118. Cheerio guys (1 replies)
1119. SC and LSC brisants and VOD (5 replies)
1120. Forum meeting (42 replies)
1121. Exploding Ink Tab (5 replies)
1122. Some Pics of Spies and their Weapons and Tools (31 replies)
1123. Test your pearl swag skills! :) (22 replies)
1124. Films and songs... (66 replies)
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1127. precursors molecular images for megalomania's site (5 replies)
1128. My website (36 replies)
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1131. Mgo to Mg? (12 replies)
1132. Exploding Micro Balls? (7 replies)
1133. Detonateing KMNO4 (8 replies)
1134. ead monoxide (7 replies)
1135. Adobe Acrobat pro 6 now available, sort of (11 replies)
1136. NG questions (15 replies)
1137. Armor Piercing Pennies and Infinite Mirrors (41 replies)
1138. NBK2000's Book Unavailable (18 replies)
1139. Asbestos replacement ? (6 replies)
1140. A review of the crapbooks. (0 replies)
1141. Trinitro N Nitranilino Ethanol Nitrate (Pentryl) (7 replies)
1142. Esane and dicloropropane (1 replies)
1143. Fourm Video (65 replies)
1144. Industrial use of KP (0 replies)
1145. NaNO2? (1 replies)
1146. Urban Exploration (5 replies)
1147. Working with low BP chems (7 replies)
1148.
1149.
1146.
1147.
1148. UK Asylum problem (simplified) (1 replies)
1149. Preparation of Ammonium nitrate (10 replies)
1150. Dinitramides...? (6 replies)
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1153. Cl2 gas. (10 replies)
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1155. DNP(dinitrophenol) (3 replies)
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1157. Largest Detonation (14 replies)
1158. critical pressure (5 replies)
1159. AP vs. HMTD - Which is the most sensitive? (9 replies)
1160. Taking AP Chems Through Customs? (27 replies)
1161. Jokes (179 replies)
1162. Flameless Smoke Generators (7 replies)
1163. things to do with AP (and other explosives) (8 replies)
1164. hydrogen peroxide concentration (13 replies)
1165. Military Grade Napalm (11 replies)
1166. Acetylene lighter then air? (9 replies)
1167. Chlotate+AP (4 replies)
1168. The Library (3 replies)
1169. APAN/puddy (6 replies)
1170. small solenoids (5 replies)
1171. Distilling Ethanol (9 replies)
1172. Melted AP Detonators (3 replies)
1173. nitrated petroleum (9 replies)
1174. How is the "Book Club" idea coming along? (3 replies)
1175. Whata is the Status of NBK's PDF (8 replies)
1176. You asked for it, here it is! (7 replies)
1177. The letters M and O (41 replies)
1178. Fake ID's (145 replies)

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nbk2000 July 18th, 2002, 09:32 AM

Rather enigmatic title for a topic eh? :)
The reason I'm bringing this up is because, in my job, I get to go through an inordinate amount of other peoples garbage.
Most of it is bottles and cigarette packages. As such, I collect marlboro miles by the fistfuls, and (currently) soda contest caps.
Right now, Pepsi is having a "Cool Million Cash Caps" contest where you collect letters under the pepsi bottle caps and spell
the words "Cool Million". You do that and you get a random drawing entry for a $1,000,000. As it stands, I have the following
letters:
Cxxx
Ox
Ox
Lxx
M
Ixxx
Lxx
Lxx
Ixxx
Ox
Nxxxxxx
The x is the number of caps for that letter that I already have. I get several every night. What I don't find in the trash I drink
up while stocking the cooler in back. :D
As you can see, I'm lacking an "M", and am woefully sort on "O".
The reason I'm bringing this to your attention is because this is a chance to help out the Forum with no cash outlay on our
parts.
With our collective numbers, I'm sure someone here has an "M", or can at least start collecting the caps they'd otherwise
throwaway. Then these caps are mailed to me and I enter us in the drawing.
If I win, this is what I'm doing with the million. They offer the option of either taking a $400,000 lump sum, or $1,000,000
over 20 years. I'd take the 20 years, and sell the rights to a viatical company for $800,000 lump sum. Most people don't know
about viaticals. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
With the 800G, the Forum gets hosted on FAT bandwidth with huge storage space forever. All the staff gets new kick ass rigs
with broadband to go with it. A paid Forum FTP with all kinds of software that you're not going to find on Kazaa or e-donkey
(think high end chemical and engineering progs/explosives calculators/etc). And $100,000 will be split evenly among the
people who donated the caps that made it possible.
The balance will be used to fund research by members who've demonstrated a capacity for such things. Such as Xoo(?) and
the claymores, the new guy with the LSC, and others. Kind of like a Carnegy grant, only for stuff that goes boom! :D
Of course, I'd also use funds for my own PDF research and, being neuvo riche', I would give away the DVDs to anyone wanting
'em since I'd have more than enough money to do so without having to charge for them.
So, anyone interested in helping in this endeavor can e-mail me, or just post your willingness to help here and I'll contact you.
PYRO500 July 18th, 2002, 01:31 PM

You do know how this scheme works right? there are several diffrent caps, and there are one or two letters that are "rareified"
that is that they know exactly where they were sent to and usually they are serial numbered to prevent forgery, keep the blue
seal in the cap intact at all costs. I admit it would be awsome for us I would have an SGI workstation two way sattelite internet
connection with unlimited download bandwith, a high power rail gun that'll rival sam barros's 20 Kj one in construction, the
world's most powerful stun gun with aerogel capacitor ~3Kj (enough to explode flesh) remote firearms mount, barb launching
cannon, a very large HERF gun, super high gain recever, all frequency's all modes (including digital spread spectrum) enough
chems to make CL-20, a commercial blaster's liscence and manufacture liscences, user@rogueesci.org email domains for
everyone, break the world's record for most bottle rockets launched simultaniously, and to top that all off 9V batteries for all
the smoke detectors and a fire supression system (i'll probably need it) well that's all I can think of I want right now, but I
think that the letter M is probobly the controlled letter and there are very very few of them in circulation. As for my part, I'm
possibly gonna walk to the store later and I'll pick up a pepsi and tell you what letter I get (that's if they updated their
products (cheap bastards keep the same stuff on shelf for loooong times).
Resident Evil July 18th, 2002, 02:11 PM

I take it this prize thing is only to people in the US? If it's worldwide, I'll see what I can do to help. :)
Tyler_Durden July 18th, 2002, 04:42 PM

Yeah, does anyone remember that McDonalds monopoly game? You buy food and you get the real estate stuff, complete a
set and win a hefty prize?
Everyone and their brother was one away from EVERY set... of course the last one will be the money one.
Then again, maybe since its a DRAWING, it actually IS possible to get them all, many many times?
Just one problem I have with this... how do we know that you, nbk, the master criminal, will not take the cool million and run?
:p
frostfire July 18th, 2002, 10:13 PM

where is this cool million contest stated? :confused: I find null related results from google, and none either at the pepsi
website. The last thing I haven't checked is the soda bottle since I don't drink softdrink.
PYRO, I think your wishlists could cost more than .,.,.(just from the satellite connection alone)
If this REALLY happen, it would be interesting though, since I believe some identities would be inevitably revealed
[ July 19, 2002, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: frostfire ]
PYRO500 July 18th, 2002, 10:27 PM

Actually the 2 way sattelite internet connection would cost around 650$ in eqipment and 325$ a year in service. That's the only
high speed internet you can get around here. I think all my stuff on my wish list could be easily acomplished for around 25K
most of witch relys on my ingenuity to create and modify things.
[ July 18, 2002, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: PYRO500 ]
Tyler_Durden July 19th, 2002, 02:13 AM

pyro: yeah, same here, livin out in the boonies means no easily accesible broadband. :( :( :(
just an fyi: if you havent already, dont get it unless you just have the money to burn, as i have hear LOTS of bad reports of
how terrible and unreliable sattelite internet is. the local sattelite places here dont carry it any more because they give them so
much trouble. also, if you expect good gaming pings, dont, because they will be as bad or worse than dial-up. then again,
maybe you will have good luck with it, or you already have it and havent had trouble.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
back on subject!
-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-
i also couldnt find any information for any such sweepstakes, perhaps it is only a local/regional promotion?
PYRO500 July 19th, 2002, 03:54 AM

I know all about sattelite internet, what do you expect from a sattelite that's about 22,000 miles away! and the signal has to
from the ground net to the sattelite back to ground, that's gonna take some time. while your latency may be slow you do get
good speeds but the problem most people don't realize is that one encryped data stream carries the data for all users! that
means that there is not unlimited bandwith, that's why there is download restrictions depending on your package, so you don't
just hook up an entire office to one linkup unless you pay extra, of course you could do that but is automatically slows your
peed once you overdo your download limit.
Energy84 July 19th, 2002, 09:52 AM

I'm in, but first I need to find these damn letters. I haven't seen this contest either, but then again, I don't usually pay too
much attention to them...
There's always the possibility that NBK would just take the money and run, but that's just a risk I'm willing to take, since I
don't have anything to lose.
nbk2000 July 19th, 2002, 10:41 AM

Call 1-888-279-0038 for contest details. It's national so you americans can get in on it.
Besides winning the usual free soda, you can also instantly win $10 or $100.
Naturally there's going to be one letter that's very rare. That's why I'm suggesting we pool our manpower from all across the
country (US only) to greatly increase our chances.
I called Pepsico and they said that one letter is being withheld as a rare one. They wouldn't specify which one, but only 1 in
5,735 bottles gets it. So that must mean that "M" is the 1 in 5,735 letter. The contest expires 11/01/02, so that gives us
almost 3 months to collect letters. Or, in my case, check the bottles at work.
I've discovered that it's possible to shine a red light through the cap and, while holding the bottle at an angle, read what the
letter is underneath it. I think I've got a new hobby at my job. And I've got hundreds of bottles to check, and months to go,
too.
Everybody knew who John Gotti and Al Capone were. But that didn't stop them, did it? :) Money is power, and a lot of money is
a lot of power.
Saying I'd split with the dough and leave the Forum hanging would be like saying Mega would split with the money and leave
the forum hanging. I've been here going on three years and am an admin because I helped make this place what it is today.
So obviously I'm going to help out the Forum with money if I'm rich. :rolleyes:
One of my other jobs was satellite sales. High speed satellite internet does suffer major lag time, so you'll get your ass wiped
on any online games. But, for regular surfing, it's fine. The one thing satellite has going for it is the fact that it's mobile. You
can take it with you anywhere in the northern hemisphere. So you can be posting live video feed to the Forum of your desert
blast experiments.
A few other things I'd do with an obscene amount of money:
Buy every book Paladin "traitors to the first amndment" Press sells, have them scanned, and uploaded to a server in some
country like romania with a URL like "www.freepaladinpressbooks.com". Then post that URL to every patriot, survivalist, and
gun-nut newsgroup and website in the world.
Laugh as they try to have site shut down, but romanians don't care about copyright and tell capitalist dogs to "kiss their
babuska!". HAHAHHAHA!! Then laugh my ass off when PP goes out of business because nobody with a computer buys their
books anymore. :p
Punks! That's what you get for selling out the constitution to a bunch of money grubbing muds with kike lawyers. :mad:
Naturally, all these books would be on the Forum FTP for download.
What I always thought would be a neat idea would be to start the worlds first off-planet bank. Since banks are nothing more
than computers that keep track of who owes who how much, why can't that computer be in orbit or sitting on the moon?
There's no jurisdiction then, thus no one and no country can snoop through the files or seize the money. A TRUELY offshore
bank. :D
Naturally, this bank doesn't PAY you interest. Rather, it CHARGES you interest to keep money in it. But that's alright. Would
you rather pay 1% annual interest to an offplanet bank? Or 30% to the IRS?
I can see the debit cards for the bank...Ultra hard and ultra clear synthetic sapphire with a hologram of the moon floating in
the middle. No visible magstrip since the magstrip is made of transparent magnetic media (I'm sure someone has it!).
Greater prestige and bragging rights than any gold, platinium, or iridium card.
Naturally, only accounts with balances of $10,000,000 or more need bother to apply. Wouldn't do to sully the banks reputation
by allowing any old riff-raff with a million dollars to join, now would it? :p
The chinese are planning on a manned moon mission before 2010, so that's how the bank would be set up there. Getting
financing to set up such a bank shouldn't be a problem. I've heard there's plenty of columbian gentlemen interested in
investing in banks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
A good name (I think) would be "Tranquility Bank". The Sea of Tranqulity is where Neil Armstrong first stepped on the moon.
Ctrl_C July 19th, 2002, 02:29 PM

What exactly do you mean by red light? Will a laser pointer or something work? A red christmas lightbulb?
I have a friend that works a conveinence store also and would be willing to help out I bet.
btw, with this $10m or whatever, can I get a secure underground server room with multiple servers, t3 line, and a diesel
generator to serve the FTP and site from? please?
[ July 19, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Ctrl_C ]
Tyler_Durden July 19th, 2002, 02:34 PM

Not to mention your "snitch.org" idea. :D
I was going to mention that there are weys to read under the cap w/o opening it... now I just need a small light w/ lense (or a
laser if thats what he means) so that I can read them w/o drawing suspicion.
PYRO500 July 19th, 2002, 09:11 PM

The prize is only one million, while having a t3 dedicated line for a private forum ftp would be very nice the line installation
would be astronomical, the service for a t3 is a nice 10,000 a month meaning about 6 years and the service has drained the
funding totally (that's assuming that you buy nothing else) it would be far cheaper to rent some rack space at an internet
company and have your server hooked to their t3 line and have your own RAID of high speed scsi's to store the files, that
could be anywhere from 600-2,000 a month but you get your own server and you share a company's server room.
frostfire July 19th, 2002, 11:45 PM

alright, mission verified....search on M & O has begun (btw, I assume if I got other letters, it would be no interest to you?)
I'll experiment with all sort of lights; pointers, AAA maglite etc...and make sure I'll "check" anytime I get to a gas station....or
be a nice person and buy my friends pepsi products for a couple of weeks
If I'm a sig. contributor and got a sig. portion. What I'll do???
heh heh :p if NBK wants to make paladin back to ground zero then my aim is PLAYBOY :mad: (hefner the female "abuser")!
and those anti fur clothing maniacs who protect an animal but degradate human by au natural demonstration in the name of
propaganda for animal
rights :mad: .....feminist ALL THE WAY!!!!!!
ps: for PB it's basically same method; since going to court will definitely swap me away in nano seconds (since he for sure got
BIGGER bucks), I really don't like this either but so far this looks like an ultimate option; buy every magazine, every cyber
club, every centerfold etc etc etc , and distribute it FREEEEE to everyone + who knows? ER Rudolph's method???
[ July 20, 2002, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: frostfire ]
PYRO500 July 20th, 2002, 12:29 AM

Go ahead whith that frostfire, playboy is much to soft for my taste. to quote Larry Flint: "what's with all this blurry shit?".
Ctrl_C July 20th, 2002, 02:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The prize is only one million, while having a t3 dedicated line for a private forum ftp would be very nice the line
installation would be astronomical, the service for a t3 is a nice 10,000 a month meaning about 6 years and the service has
drained the funding totally (that's assuming that you buy nothing else) it would be far cheaper to rent some rack space at an
internet company and have your server hooked to their t3 line and have your own RAID of high speed scsi's to store the files,
that could be anywhere from 600-2,000 a month but you get your own server and you share a company's server room. <hr /></blockquote>haha, I can't believe you typed all that...I know it's
expensive. it was a joke. :) :p

guys.... i think you are all forgetting that we have to win first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Mr Cool July 20th, 2002, 07:33 AM

Do we? Oh shit, nothing's ever simple is it?
Sounds like a good idea, pitty us Brits can't help :(.
nbk2000 July 20th, 2002, 09:12 AM

Well, after having checked 10 cases of 20 oz and 1 liter pepsi products (over 200 bottles) I didn't find any "M" caps. :(
But, I did find a $10 cash cap. :) That paid for the hour or two it took to check them. And it's a 1 in 700 prize. The $100 prize
is 1 in 24,000. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Got a better chance of finding an "M"!
I used a white LED light this time. It worked fine, though I think red light provides better contrast. Check the bottles when
they're warm, if possible, because condensation on the cold bottles makes it a pain to read the caps.
I also made sure to mark every bottle cap I checked so I won't repeat checking bottles I've already checked before.
DON'T try reading the caps in the store if you don't work there. :rolleyes: That'll just get you kicked out of the store, and
maybe give the clerk the idea.
The only letter that matters is the "M". All the other ones, including "O", are common. It's the rare "M" that's the
moneymaker. Without that one we're fucked.
Oh, and another reason why I (we) need the million comes from one of my favorite despot's sayings:
<Heavy Russian Accent>

What's good for Stalin is good for Russia!
</Heavy Russian Accent>
In other words, what's good for me is good for the Forum. :D
Ctrl_C, I've got some stuff to mail you. Is that address you sent me still good? Reply here (Yes/No only) as my e-mail is
snail-slow now.
[ July 20, 2002, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]
Ctrl_C July 20th, 2002, 01:14 PM

yes
Mick July 20th, 2002, 01:40 PM

have you read the terms and conditions of entry? i mean really read them in depth?
the reason i ask is, BP service stations(don't know if you have them in america) were running a comp for lord of the rings.
you had to collect a hole bunch of cards(some of which were rare) which had clues to the location of something on a map. then
you had to take certain letters from the clues and create a sentence.(i forget the exact details of what you had to do..but
either way it was pretty hard because you couldn't only find certain cards)
then you had whack all this stuff in an envelope, and send it into X address.
in the terms and conditions the explained how it was going to be drawn, and a few other things including what the odds of
winning were. i forget the what the acctuall figure was but a friend and me worked out that even if we entered the contest with
all the correct pieces of infomation needed 100,000 times we would still a 1 in 1 million chance of winning.
man its killing me, i wish i could remember the exact details of the contest - because we worked it that it was basicly
impossible to win.
so i guess what i am trying to say is check all the details twice.

because in all fairness who wants to give away a million dollars?
Spudkilla July 20th, 2002, 04:20 PM

You guys do know that we aren't going to win this. I think that we are all setting ourselves up for a big disappointment.
BUT if we do win, here is some suggestions: For the Forum FTP, just get a T1 or DSL line. No need for T3.
DSL is 1.5 mb/s (well not really, you hafta tweak it first), and T1 is about the same or a little slower, just a ton more
dependable than DSL. My second suggestion is that we could start our own political party and run for Senator of some state, or
mayor of a city. I know politics will corrupt even the purest of heart, but we still have somebody in a poisition of power who is
just like us! But then, the Sheeple and current government will overthrow us. Oh well. We could try.
kingspaz July 20th, 2002, 05:43 PM

we may have a poor chance of winning but working together we have a 1000 times greater chance of winning other than
individually.
Tyler_Durden July 21st, 2002, 12:52 AM

If we go through 5,000 caps, we will probably get one "M", and thus one entry for the cool million.
I'd say its very possible to get the entry... but the big question remains:
How many people will get that far?
5? 100? 10,000?
Pu239 Stuchtiger July 23rd, 2002, 02:34 AM

I binge-drink Pepsi's - if I stumble across any M's I'll save them.
If I ever became bloody rich, I know perfectly well what I'd do. I'd move out to some remote region like Montana. I'd build a
home of comfortable size. A few hundred feet away would be a giant, multi-level laboratory, with floor space in the seven-digit
range. A 20,000L tank of mixed acid and a 5,000L tank of glycerine would be located nearby for symbolic purposes. I'd buy
explosives licenses. I'd buy a couple hundred square miles of land. I'd construct a uranium refinery. And then I'd host the 4th
of July party of a lifetime.
I would truly be the neighbor from hell. Fire and brimstone, and radioactive ashes would quite literally be raining down on
those foolish enough to not flee from the towering pillars of fire rising beyond the horizon. Homes miles away would crumble
under the force of my artificial earthquakes measuring 9.9 on the Richter scale.
[ July 23, 2002, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Pu239 Stuchtiger ]
nbk2000 July 23rd, 2002, 10:44 AM

Even if it was 1 in 10,000, that's many thousands of times better odds than the odds in the lottery for a prize of comparable
worth.
Individually, we have probably close to zero chance, but collectively we stand a better chance than most. If we have several
store clerks checking hundreds of bottles every week, then we're bound to get at least one, if not several, "M"s and all the
other letters needed.
And let's not forget the instant cash winners. (See further details below)
After further talking with the Pepsico people, I was unable to get an firm numbers from them as to projected odds. But they
said it could be as few as 10, or as many as 10,000. If only 10 entries are received, and 3 of those are ours... :D
I also learned this is central US regional only. Meaning N. and S. Dakota, Texas, Arkansas, Illinois, Tennesse, Missisipi, Ohio,
Misery, Kansas, and related regional states. :( So this may further limit our chances of members collecting the needed letters.
As for the cash winner caps, you're supposed to mail them in and wait for a check from Pepsi. Fuck that! I just walked into a
competitors store, showed it to the clerk and told him I won $10 and to cough it up. He did. :) Fool obviously doesn't know the
contest rules, but most clerks don't bother reading all the rules for the various contests anyways.
Thus was born an idea. I had scanned in the cap before cashing it in (I'll post it in a couple of days). Next (the following is all
theory and has no bearing on any events, real or imagined, that may have taken place.), the phrase "Ten Dollar Winner" is
duplicated in photoshop before being laser printed onto clear transparency film at Kinko's, 40 copies per sheet.
These copies are then cut out with an x-acto knife and inserted into "loser" caps with the common letters bleached out. The
original plastic seal is removed and replaced with a thin film of dyed wax (wax dyes found at hobby craft stores that sell candle
making supplies) that is melted into place over the transparancy film to hold it in place and give it the "offical" look of a real
cap.
These caps are then taken to various retailers that sell pepsi where the drag is ran on the clerks. The majority hand over the
cash for the bogus caps. The rest say you have to mail it in. Easy money for a quick trip up and down the boulevard.
You're not going to get rich, but it's a very easy scam to pull off with near zero risk. Make a couple of hundred bucks in a few
days if you're a busy bee.
If you wanted to, you could substitute "Free 20oz Pepsi" for the cash phrase and collect dozens (or hundreds) of free bottles
and sell them for a buck at events or street corners. But that's too much like work for my taste. :p Or stock up for the summer
with cases of free soda like a "thug" ant would. :)

that would be even better with a $100 winner!
nice idea nbk!
i work 25 hours to get $100, and to think i could get $500 for an hour's work... and people say crime doesn't pay. :D
even though this sweepstakes is not available in my area, this would be viable with any such deal where you can win $10 or
$50 or whatever.
Energy84 July 24th, 2002, 02:32 AM

Well I for one am anxiously waiting for the scanned cap to go online! :p
Sorry to hear that the contest is only going on in central US only. Now I can't contribute :(
But, what if somebody can forge an M ? it would likely need to be printed onto thick plastic, same type as used for the real
thing, then pressed into the shape of a real bottle cap. You'd have to do a damn good job though because those guys will
probably be checking every single entry for forgery.
I wonder how many they get per year....
PYRO500 July 24th, 2002, 02:34 AM
I don't think any cashier is going to have 100$ to give to you in the drawer, let alone actually give it to you. Also they are
gonna remember who they gave the 100$ to when their boss fires their ass. also they are going to look at a 100$ cap a bit
closer than a 10$ cap, people don't just hand out that kind of cash even if they have the money.
[ July 24, 2002, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: PYRO500 ]
nbk2000 July 24th, 2002, 08:35 AM

RTPB: "Don't get greedy!"
Trying to scam a store for $100 is both foolish and dangerous. Foolish because they're not going to hand out a hundred
dollars regardless. And dangerous because your face will be on camera (another RTPB) and passed around to all the other
stores if they figure out you're trying to scam them.
Stick to $10 caps. It's both easier to cash, and too petty to bother tracking you down for.
As for the cap picture, here it is:

<img src="http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Pepsi-Winner.jpg" alt=" - " />
Is it real, or is it Memorex? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> :D
A-BOMB July 24th, 2002, 10:11 AM

Sure that real NBK look kinda like you wrote that with a fine balltip pen :confused: . And if it is real :confused: what type of
pepsi did you get it off of? Time to go see if I can get a job at the recycling plant, many many pepsi bottles.
nbk2000 July 24th, 2002, 01:36 PM

Yes it's real. Remember, they print the words inside the caps at the rate of hundreds a minute with a dot matrix printer that
goes inside the cap on the assembly line before the seal is put in place. So you're not going to get perfectly straight lines and
what not.
Recycling plant would be a good place to look!
As for me, we got another 300 bottles in last night, so I'll be busy for the next couple checking them out.
A-BOMB July 24th, 2002, 02:24 PM

I better get out to kinkos and start printing. And anyone here work at a pepsi plant or recycling plant?
nbk2000 October 13th, 2002, 08:43 AM

Well, after checking thousands of bottles, and finding only free pepsis and a couple more $10 caps, it's coming down to crunch
time. Only about 2 weeks left for entering.
So, anyone get an "M"? I didn't think so.
However, there may still be hope with E-bay. Any takers?
Eliteforum October 13th, 2002, 02:40 PM

I'd put them all up on ebay seperatly, loads of people are going to be bidding on them, even more so if you don't have a
reserve price on them.
chemwarrior October 15th, 2002, 06:07 PM

I would just wait this game out and try on the next one. I dont suppose anyone on here knows anyone who works for Pepsi
Co? I think I might know someone, so there may be a chance to do a little 'cheating' on any near future contests they have.
In just a little while Im going to go on a "pepsi frenzy" in a little while so I may become lucky....
HOOPS123 October 15th, 2002, 10:39 PM

I'm not sure what good working at a recycling plant would do. Does anyone here honestly not look at their caps before tossing
them?
zeocrash October 20th, 2002, 04:06 PM

ok i dont think this competion is running in the UK, but If i do get rich the forum will be first on my list of large donations
Mr Science January 15th, 2008, 09:37 PM

This is a really old (and dead) thread, but after reading this, NBK should have gone to a beverage distribution warehouse, and
made an announcment: Perhaps he would pay the management as a whole $20k (assuming he won), then make the
announcement, whoever found the letters _ and _ would get $15,000 from him; I am sure that would motivate a hell of a lot
of people working there, considering the ~<$10/hr wages. :D
Silentnite February 7th, 2008, 02:49 AM

Ha, Get the idea from Willy Wonka? "But Veronica, I've got 20,000 girls shelling 100,000 chocolate bars an hour, there's only
so fast that they can go!"
Barnacles February 9th, 2008, 02:19 AM

I'm not sure what good working at a recycling plant would do. Does anyone here honestly not look at their caps before tossing
them?
Man would you be surprised at all the junk people throw out at those places. I worked in one last year, amongst the things I
found were:
Brand new ipod in a box

2 pounds of weed in a garbage bag really good skunk
160 gig hard drive.
2.4 ghz cpu I think lots of computer stuff, ZALMAN fan and heatsink
Money.
Lots of brand new toiletries
DVD box sets.
My buddy found an 7900GTX or something top of the line video card at the time worth 500$
never ending things, Oh and all of that was found in 2 weeks. tonnes of other things like batteries. I actually found a little bit
of explosives. like 1 gram sealed in a bag labeled explosives. I turned it in to get a day off of work lol while the bomb squad
came lol.besides with rogue sci....
Silentnite February 10th, 2008, 04:43 PM

It's just as bad in transportation. You'd be amazed at the stuff left on busses/trains/cabs.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Fake ID's
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View Full Version : Fake ID's
Energy84 January 13th, 2002, 12:59 AM

Does anybody have any info about fake ID's and how to make them? I'm looking for stuff like, printers, software packages,
paper, ink, resolutions and the sort. any info is appreciated.
So far, this is the only really relevant link I have found, but it requires a membership to access their databases :( <a
href="http://www.counterfeitlibrary.com/" target="_blank">Counterfeit Library</a>
Noct January 13th, 2002, 01:39 AM

There are books on fake ID's on <a href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Search for them.
green beret January 13th, 2002, 02:37 AM

I dont know where you live but its damn hard in Australia to get fake ID.
Ctrl_C January 13th, 2002, 02:43 AM

I was thinking about trying to make fake passports. you could charge a shit load for them.
nbk2000 January 13th, 2002, 03:14 AM

Expertly altered US passports are worth up to $30,000!
But unless you're planning on investing all the time and money to research the security, and buy the special laminating,
holograms, inks, papers, etc. it's not worth even fucking with.
Much easier is simple things that people will pay for that no one really thinks of as being worth "forging".
Think of DMV printouts that don't have any mention of the 3 DUIs that a truck driver has. That's worth a couple hundred right
there.
Or insurance cards. That's $20-$50 all day long!
Obvious equipment is:
A high resolution scanner. The highest quality you can beg, borrow, or steal.
Photoshop 6 (DUH!)
Laser printer for B/W printing, Dye sublimination for color, thermal for certain kinds of papers.
Foil imprinter for those annoying "seals" that sometimes appear.
Laminating machine.
Diffraction film for duplicating holograms.
Plastic card stock for IDs.
The list goes on.
Machiavelli January 13th, 2002, 05:18 AM

Some nice info can be got from small lecture by John Q. Newman, one of Loompanics's New Id authors, that he held at
Defcon. Real media streams of the lectures are available at:
<a href="http://www.defcon.org/defcon-media-archives-defcon.html" target="_blank">http://www.defcon.org/defcon-media-
archives-defcon.html</a>
BoB- January 13th, 2002, 06:23 AM

You don't have to fake a federal I.D. and risk jailtime for just buying booze and cigarettes, Does'nt the YMCA have an I.D.
card? Surely this would be easier to fake.
And while i'm thinking about it, you could get a job there and make fake ID's for other people and charge outrageous prices.
Mr Cool January 13th, 2002, 07:15 AM

If you go to school you could make a packet by selling faked NUS cards or an equivalent.
Actually, no that probably wouldn't work in the US since you have to be 21 to buy alcohol (hahaha!!), and no-ones gonna
believe a school kid is 21.
But it works for those in the UK.

zaibatsu January 13th, 2002, 08:56 AM
Actually, with those NUS cards, they don't actually check up on how old you are, just get a dumb teacher to sign the form, and
put an age (say 18) on AFTER, and you will get a real card saying that you are 18. Lots of bars and things accept it near me.
mongo blongo January 13th, 2002, 01:07 PM

When I was in college, all I had to do for an NUS card was go to this office and ask for one! It cost 50p! They were "self
laminating cards" that you could take away and put your photo on it, fill in the info and peel off this paper which laminates the
card. The cards were also pre-stamped. I had loads of em which we sold outside night clubs. I got friends to get them for me
and sometimes I just said I kept on loosing them! I still got some now(but out of date)!
EASY! :)
J January 13th, 2002, 03:37 PM

NUS cards are now plastic 'credit card' designs with a magnetic strip for access to buildings, and a printed photo of the owner.
Probably wouldn't be too difficult to forge, but there would be no point. They're not accepted as proof of age; your age isn't on
them.
Just to add, these are for university, I have never seen a college card so I could be wrong.
[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: J ]
Anthony January 13th, 2002, 08:45 PM

If you only want one for small time fraud (buying booze etc), there are companies which sell fake IDs (FBI etc) I think you can
find them in the back of magazines like Loaded. I know someone who got an age verification one from a website, but I've got
no idea what it was.
Energy84 January 14th, 2002, 12:14 AM

Oh it's not hard to forge student ID cards, I've already manage to make my own. What I'm really looking for is paper type,
inks, stuff like that. A book would be great if anyone has access. I haven't turned anything up so far from the local library
haven't found much material on the 'net either. Mostly just sites that are charging up to $300 for phony drivers licenses.
Here's an interesting site though <a href="http://www.fargo.com/index.asp" target="_blank">Fargo Electronics</a> These are
the people who market the required equipment to make ID cards. Nice site, good info. They even have an "ID basics" .pdf to
download.
nbk2000 January 14th, 2002, 02:13 AM

Printers have books that have little samples of all the various types of papers, weights, glosses, coatings, etc.
Getting one of these books would be the first big step towards being able to replicate a document, because you could then
find an exact (or nearly so) match for the original documents paper.
Any card can be duplicated, any security feature broken, any seal tampered with undetected, if an attacker has sufficent
resources (time, money, knowledge). Just ask yourself what it is that you're trying to gain and is it worth the cost you'll have to
spend to get it.
Noct January 14th, 2002, 08:01 PM

If I had money I would get that book off <a href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a> scan all of
it to post on the ftp.
It would only be a back up for me, though, and I can't be held responsible should one of you ever download it for
informational purposes only.
I also want to do it with some "defensive driving" books on <a href="http://www.amazon.com"

target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a> , but once again, money constraints haunt me.
Machiavelli January 15th, 2002, 07:17 PM

And if you had brains you'd notice that a scan of a book containing "little samples of all the various types of papers, weights,
glosses, coatings, etc." wouldn't be exactly useful for comparing a document to it, right? :D
PrimoPyro August 7th, 2002, 08:17 AM

The author of this thread just might find this interesting. This particular entry Im about to paste here relates to Texas, USA
IDs. Compliments of our loyal analyst MaDMAx from The Hive, and his product of boredom.
"Novelty ID Bookmark Reply
So you want a novelty ID. Don't try to buy one from one of those online places, most of them are scams. So make your own.
The best place for information that I've found is a bulletin board that is nowhere near as good as the hive, but still has good
info. <a href="http://counterfeitlibrary.com/cl/forums/default.asp" target="_blank">http://counterfeitlibrary.com/cl/forums/
default.asp</a>
I know it is a pain in the ass to read and read and read, so I've done it and will try to condense it into this one post.
There are two main types of ID used today, PVC cards, and laminated cards. To make a PVC card, you need a PVC card
printer, which are pretty expensive, so I will focus on the laminated cards, which can be made to look like a PVC card if
necessary. I will also focus on the Texas DL, which is a laminated card, because that is what I have experience with.
Equipment and Supplies
Computer with graphics editing program

Printer
Scanner
Digital camera (optional)
Teslin synthetic paper
Lamination pouches (7 mil thickness for Texas)
PhotoEZ silkscreen stencil
Transparent silkscreen base
Gold and UV pigments
I can't post sources, but there are some online stores that cater to people making "novelty ID's", and if you go to the bulletin
board I named above and do some reading, you will find sources for these products listed.
First, you need a computer with a graphical editing program on it. Most people use Adobe Photoshop, but I use Paint Shop
Pro, which can be downloaded for a free 60 day trial here: <a href="http://www.jasc.com/download_4.asp?"
target="_blank">http://www.jasc.com/download_4.asp?</a>
If you want to make an ID for Texas, then you are in luck, because the next thing you need is a template, called a temp at
that other BB, and I have a Texas temp which I have made and will share. This is basically an image of the drivers license
(DL) with a blank area for the picture and personal information. If you want to make an ID for another state, you will have to
scan in a real ID using a very high resolution (like 1200 dpi), and use that as a base for making your template. It will take a
long time, especially if you don't yet know how to use your graphics editing program.
So once you have your template, you take a picture of yourself with a digital camera, resize it to be the right size for the ID,
cut out your head and shoulders, and paste it in the right place on your ID. If you don't have access to a digital camera, you
can take a normal photograph of yourself and scan it in (high res, 1200 dpi) and use that.
Then you need to enter your novelty information (name, address, etc.) in the correct areas. It is very nice if you can find the
correct font, but I couldn't so I painstakingly scanned in ID's and cut letters and numbers until I had the entire alphabet and
numerical digits. Then I spent hours cleaning them up. And you can cut and paste these one at a time to fill in your info. You
will also have to sign a white piece of paper with your novelty signature, scan this in, size it correctly, clean it up, and cut and
paste it to the correct place on the temp.
Once your novelty ID is complete on your computer, you need to print it out. There is a synthetic type of paper called teslinTM
(it is some kind of polyolefin) that is best. It can be obtained from online stores that cater to ID makers, as sheets with 8
perforated card size areas, and a sheet with measurements to help you line up you pic. There is laser printer teslin, which you
don't want unless you have a color laser printer, and inkjet printer teslin, which has one side of the teslin coated to work with
inkjet printers. So you put your teslin sheets in your color inkjet printer making sure to orient it so that the correct side (it will
feel a little bit smoother than the other side) will be printed on, open up the page setup window, set the left and top margins
to whatever the paper that came with the teslin says, and print out a draft. If it is lined up perfectly on the perforated card
area, great. If it isn't, then you will have to use a ruler to measure how far off it is, and adjust these settings on the page
setup window to make it line up. Then you need to figure out what printer setting gives the best picture. On my HP deskjet 960
c, the automatic selection works great, but if yours doesn't have this then you will have to experiment. It is in the print window,
under "properties" I believe, and supposedly the matte photo paper settings work pretty well. So print out the front of your
license already.
Now you also need to print the back, which is usually pretty simple, and only black. Since inkjet teslin only has one side
coated, printing on the back is more difficult. Colors won't come out right, but black will be OK if you set the paper type to the
right setting. Once again, the setting is located under "properties" on the print window. For my printer, the automatic selection
doesn't work well, and I have to set it to special papers, hp iron on transfer. Now flip your teslin over, set the margins to print
in the right place, and print the back. Supposedly some of the ID shops started carrying double sided inkjet teslin, so if you
get this, then you don't have to worry about which side you print the front and which side you print the back on.
So now you laminate. At these same stores that cater to ID makers, you can purchase "butterfly pouches" which are clear
laminating material that is cut and creased so that it will fold and sandwich your teslin printed ID that you printed out, and isn't
it nice that the perforated teslin and butterfly pouch are the same size (the size of a state ID) and already have the corners
rounded? Yes. Then you purchase a laminator machine from an office products store for $40 or so, and run your pouch
sandwiched teslin card through it, using the cardboard carrier that comes with the pack of butterfly pouches. If your state ID
has a magnetic stripe on the back (Texas does), then you should get lamination pouches that have a magnetic stripe on
them. These magnetic stripes can be encoded if you happen to have an encoder.
What about the sparkly gold "holograms" that glow under UV light? Well those require more work and I'll tell you how to do it.
There are two methods refered to as the "Alps method", and the "PhotoEZ method". I won't talk about the Alps method
because I haven't used it, but if you go to the forums I listed at the top of this you can read up on it. You will have to buy
another printer for it.
The photoEZ method involves making a silkscreen stencil, mixing up some clear base paint with gold sparkle and UV powder,
and painting onto the inside of the lamination pouch, so you better do this before laminating. Obtain your photoEZ stencil,
which is a piece of silk screen coated with a light sensitive coating. Print an image of your hologram on a clear transparency
sheet (it should cover the entire area of the ID you are making), place the transparency sheet over the photoEZ stencil, place
in the correct amount of light for the correct amount of time (various different times for different light sources will come with
the photoEZ instructions), put your photoEZ stencil in some water, and the areas hidden from light by your printed
transparency will dissolve. You may need to aid it with some light rubbing. Dry your stencil.
Now to prepare the paint. A transparent screenprinting base will be needed, and some gold powder pigments. For Texas,
people recommend a 50/50 mixture of Pearlex interference gold and sparkle gold, but I think a mixture that is much higher,
possibly only interference gold looks better. If you want it to be UV active like the real licenses, you will have to find some kind
of green UV pigment to add. I found some green glow in the dark powder that works OK. Experiment with ratios of powder to
transparent base to get a good product, but supposedly a 1:50 powder to transparent base weight ratio works well. Place your
stencil over the inside of your lamination pouch (correct side down according to the photoEZ instructions), pour some of your
paint on it, and smear it with the spatula that comes with the photoEZ kit. Lift the stencil and let the pouch dry. Then procede
as above with lamination.
Note: The photoEZ method takes lots of practice to get a decent looking "hologram", so don't be expecting instant success. It
is a bitch. It is also possible to buy lamination pouches with the "holograms" already on them for ~$8 each from some novelty
ID shops.
Once you have laminated your ID, use some sand paper so sand the edges smooth, and the corners round, and you're done!
It will likely take you many tries to get it looking good, but there is nothing complicated about it, anyone can do it. It just
takes time, and they can look and feel amazingly real. If you get good at it, this method can yield a license that will fool
anyone not trained to spot fakes. So go do it and use your new "novelty ID" to fool your friends and family into thinking you
are actually 100 years old!"
End post.
There is more information that I can copy if anyone decides they are further interested, and I can even upload the pictures of
his finished photoshop IDs. (very very high resolution, large size pictures. very nice)
Hope this has been helpful and/or entertaining. He milked counterfeit library for all it was worth, hahaha.
PrimoPyro
zaibatsu August 7th, 2002, 02:49 PM

God knows where this should go, but not here. I'll move it to the tools and techniques section
Energy84 August 7th, 2002, 05:03 PM

Would it be possible to direct me to the link where you got all this info? if not mabye upload it somewhere? Thank you very
much! :)
Ctrl_C August 7th, 2002, 06:44 PM

excellent. I've been looking for info on photolithography techniques for making holograms. thanks for the great info.
PrimoPyro August 7th, 2002, 07:15 PM

No problem. There is more information as well, I only copied the FIRST post in that thread so as to not waste space if no one
was interested.
I will copy the rest in a few moments. I will have to upload my personal copies of some of the files, and I dont think I have
them all, so I'll request copies from the author (he's a friend of mine) because the server which he had them on has been
abandoned out of paranoia. [laugh]
I can't just post a direct link because it's from an internal forum for members only, at The Hive. You can visit The Hive at <a
href="http://www.the-hive.ws" target="_blank">http://www.the-hive.ws</a> and please be sure to read the rules and FAQ just
like you would here. Likewise as our topic is forbiddon here, yours is forbiddon there. Just so you know.
If you just HAVE to view the real thread, follow these instructions, AFTER logging into a registered username. This room is
unaccessible to the public. Go to the search engine, and look through the field list until you see "by post number" and type in
277569 and hit search. You will be taken to the first post of that thread.
For those that don't wish to go there, I will post the info here in a couple minutes.
PrimoPyro
Energy84 August 7th, 2002, 07:39 PM

No need to repost it all here. I'll try and get there by your directions. Thankyou very much. :)
PrimoPyro August 7th, 2002, 07:45 PM

Here is the good stuff from the thread. I'll edit out most of the BS as I paste it here. I will also omit most usernames except
that of the author who should get the credit for this, as he did it all on his own and should be recognized.
Begin thread after previously posted first post.
Goiterjoe:
Damn, it's been a while since I messed with these, but I think I can help you with some pointers.
First of all, take your back template, rotate it 180, and attach it to the bottom of your front template. Now all you have to do
is fold the sheet over on itself and trim with a razor to have it perfectly lined up. you don't have to depend on your printer.
Also, you can take a glue stick and lightly smear the back of the template before you fold it to help it stick together. This will
give high quality photo paper the proper weight for the ID. After you have this part ready, you need to make your hologram.
Get some overhead transparency sheets, print the hologram on these, and cut it to double the size of the ID. Fold it around
the id so that it completely envelopes the ID. next, you want to make it blacklight reactive. take the card out of it, and get a
couple of drops of liquid laundry detergent and a hobby paint brush. Lightly coat the back of the hologram transparency with a
small film of the liquid laundry detergent and check it with a blacklight. It will glow brightly (I think because of the phospates?
); make sure it is not smudged. If so, either blot it out with a wet paint brush or start over. When you're done, put it under a
heat lamp for a few minutes to help dry it out. Afterwards, place the card back into the transparency so that the hologram is
positioned correctly, and press it out flat. Now all you have to do is laminate it up. Trim your laminated license with a fresh
razor and a straight edge; this is the only way you're going to get a clean even cut. Round out your corners with a nail clipper,
and then use the file to smooth out the cuts.
Does anyone know if NY is still using that rubberized cardstock? Those ID's are awesome looking, and seemed impossible to
duplicate.
MaDMAx:
I think what you are referring to as "rubberized card stock" is laminated teslin. If you get the pre perforated teslin I talked
about and print on the front and back, then laminate this, it is basically exactly like the real state ID's. TX anyways. Same
thickness, and you can bend it end to end without it creasing, and it snaps right back to shape. Plus with the perforated
material and lamination pouches you don't have to deal with getting it square, the right size, and the corners rounded right,
because that is already done.
Goiterjoe:
they have a card that looks like PVC, but you cand bend it end to end and twist the hell out of it without deforming it.
MaDMAx:
That's laminated teslin. I saved copies of the temp and the alphabet as .gif's and uploaded them to a geocities website. I
would have saved them as .psd's but they were too big for geocities. Here they are:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/txblank.gif" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/txblank.gif</a>

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/txback.gif" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/txback.gif</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/alphabet.gif" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/alphabet.gif</a>
Copy the address and paste it into a new browser window and hit enter. When the picture comes up, right click on it and save it
on your harddrive. Then you can open it with your graphics editing program and add your picture and change the information
to your novelty info.
A real temp, in .psp or .psd form with layers and fonts would be awesome, but this is good enough to work.
(note by PrimoPyro: dont everyone go to these links, Geocities are fuckers and limit your bandwidth. I will re-upload these
pictures to <a href="http://www.methinfo.com" target="_blank">www.methinfo.com</a> a real shitty trash site full of tweakers
and ignorance. We regularly exploit their moderator-less format for uploading of pictures for free and unlimited bandwidth.
Note that only *.gif and *.jpg can be uploaded though)
Owner of server at the time:
I would like to add these files are for educational purposes only, and not to be used in place of your real ID that you dont
want anyone to see cuz you got warrants up the wahzoo and you have neglected to pay your child suport cuz you needed sudo
and the cops wont stop lookin for your ass, then you went to the store and got ice cream cuz its um um good.
(heh, I thought that was funny :p )
MaDMAx:
So did nobody find this post helpful? I figured that most people here would be interested in a fake ID. You can use it to get a
mailbox to have chemicals sent to, etc. And it is most definitely not impossible to make one, probably easier than any of the
syntheses here.
Oh, and supposedly there is a product called Liquitex Interference Gold that will work better than the speedball clear base and
gold powder for the holograms. They are cheap, so you could buy both and experiment.
Holo breakthrough! Bookmark Reply
Not that anyone cares (except you, Fully_Auto ), but one of the chaps over at the counterfeit library discovered a better way of
making holo's than the PhotoEZ method. He used it for PVC cards, but I gave it a try with teslin and a couple of changes, and
it worked outstandingly!
Get a normal transparency sheet (not inkjet transparency sheet), open your graphics editing program, open the pic of your
holo, make sure it is reversed (left/right, or in otherwords backwards), make it light yellow instead of black, then print it out on
the transparency sheet with your inkjet printer.
Now take some of your Pearl Ex interferernce gold powder, get a makeup brush, or tissue, or something, dip it in the powder,
hold it over the printed area, and lightly blow gold dust over the printing. The gold will stick to the ink. Then with a clean
tissue, very lightly brush away the excess and cut out the printed area with some scissors.
Take your printed teslin ID card that hasn't been laminated yet, line up the transparency with holos over it, place this in the
cardboard carrier that comes with your pack of lamination pouches, and run it through the laminator.
Now peel the transparency sheet off of the teslin, and the gold holos will be on there. Laminate your teslin with a clean, clear
lamination pouch and you're done! It might be a little too dark (I think it is for TX), but the transparency still has some gold
powder on it, and if you line it up again on another teslin card and run it through the laminator, it will work again but lighter.
Just right I think for Texas.
This is easier, cheaper, and gives better results than the PhotoEZ method.
If you already have a good inkjet printer, then it doesn't take much. Teslin sheets, lamination pouches, and gold powder can
all be had for probably less than $20. A laminator from an office store is around $40.
MaDMAx:
TX holo Bookmark Reply
Oh yeah, I forgot to upload the holo layer to hooked's website. I'll upload it to my geocities site, then later see if hooked will
put it on his site. I'll do the normal holo in black, and the reversed holo in yellow. Use the reverse holo in yellow with the
transparency method.
Have you tried any of the ID Works software?
That software is of no use for this. See my post in the $$ Anonymous Credit Card $$ thread for the explanation.
edit: Here are the geocities links:
For the reversed yellow one: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/holorevyellow.gif" target="_blank">http://

www.geocities.com/indanyl/holorevyellow.gif</a>
For the normal black one: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/holoblack.gif" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/
indanyl/holoblack.gif</a>
(Ill re-upload these as well.)
The TX ID doesn't have that faint image behind the text like some other state ID's do. Just the main picture on the blue
background.
Glad to hear someone is accomplishing something from this post! For the holos, inkjet transparencies are not what you want,
because you don't want the ink from your inkjet printer to dry on the transparency sheets (which is what will happen if you use
inkjet transparency sheets). You want it to stay wet, so that when you sprinkle the interference gold powder on to it, it sticks.
Just use the cheap as shit normal transparency sheets (~$0.30 a piece)
On the back, nothing needs to be hand written or filled in. Just print it out like it is and don't add anything.
Moron Punk that I hate:
Novelty ID is amateur shuit, YUK. dont know dont care, head to the geneology department.
MaDMAx:
??? Bookmark Reply
I think novelty ID's are a very useful part of clandestine chemistry. If by amatuer you mean easy to do, then I agree. Easier
than most synths, so the people here should do it.
If you are suggesting that one should skip the novelty ID making and work on setting up a whole new legitimate (government
issued) identity, then I wholeheartedly agree, but that takes LOTS of time and work, and some luck. I think the people here
should also try that too.
Creating a whole new legitimate identity just to rent a mailbox and buy some chems is totally unnessary, and way too much
work. A novelty ID will work just fine and takes WAY less time and effort. I would never waste a clean new identity on
something as petty as renting a mailbox for chems.
TX font Bookmark Reply
I got a font that works really well for TX driver's licenses. You can download it from here: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/
indanyl/Swiss721BT.zip" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/indanyl/Swiss721BT.zip</a>
Just download it, unzip it, and put it in the correct fonts folder. Then, instead of cutting and pasting all the letters, you can just
use the "type" function of your graphics editing program and select this font as the font, and adjust the size until it looks right.
(note by PrimoPyro: Someone needs to download that zip and put it somewhere else for everyone to download. Geocities will
quickly limit the memebrs' downloading here. Fucking bastards...)
End Thread.
Sorry for some of the less useful stuff included. I didn't want to take the time to edit all 40 replies to that thread, so I cut and
pasted it on a "go or no go" basis. Either the entire reply got pasted, or not at all. I cut out a lot of BS as it was.
Ok, Im uploading the pics to methinfo.com. Its taking forever on the 1st one because its a tad more than 3MB. Shit, I cant
upload the 3MB file, someone will have to put it somewhere else if Geocities lmits it (fuckers....heh)
The others are now available at:
<a href="http://www.methinfo.com/boards/general/binaries/18/18652.gif" target="_blank">http://www.methinfo.com/boards/

general/binaries/18/18652.gif</a>
The name of the file I couldnt upload here was "txblank" in the geocities file.
Alright, thats it! Coming next: Anomyous Credit Cards! Stay tuned, same bee time, same bee channel. <img border="0"
title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
PrimoPyro
probity August 8th, 2002, 10:58 PM

Nice work man, lots of information and useful images :)
Eliteforum August 8th, 2002, 11:43 PM

PrimoPyro - Contact me.
Edit - Everytime I try to click on the email feature, I get the "sorry the administrator has enabled flood feature" and this is
WHENEVER I try it.. Whats going on? A bug?
[ August 08, 2002, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Eliteforum ]
probity August 9th, 2002, 04:01 AM

I did a little looking around from the links supplied by primopyro and found the following:
<a href="http://zuna.web1000.com/faq.htm" target="_blank">http://zuna.web1000.com/faq.htm</a> -- primo covered most

of this
<a href="http://www.brainstormidsupply.com" target="_blank">http://www.brainstormidsupply.com</a> -- various supplies
<a href="http://midhack.7p.com" target="_blank">http://midhack.7p.com</a> -- holographic supplies
<a href="http://www.holopouches.com" target="_blank">http://www.holopouches.com</a> -- holopouches
<a href="http://www.idsupply.com" target="_blank">http://www.idsupply.com</a> -- various
66.74.253.4:21 ids/novelty -- ftp hosted by #identification@dalnet lots of good templates.
I'm downloading the templates right now, I'll zip them up and upload them to the forum ftp since the ftp mentioned goes up
and down.
AfterRain October 20th, 2002, 10:13 AM

Heres a site
fakeidfaq.com
u:jeff p:jeff ... and yea that dalnet room is very good..
-------- Nah that user name and pwd work....

<a href="http://www.fakeidfaq.com/members/how/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.fakeidfaq.com/members/how/
index.html</a>
then jeff:jeff
[ October 20, 2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: AfterRain ]
darkdontay October 20th, 2002, 03:24 PM

Pass seems to be invaild.. Place looks nice but no way to sample their content, before you give them money. :mad:

I can log in fine, perhaps it might not have worked for you as someone else was logged in at that time with the same
username/password?
AfroFukinPyro October 20th, 2002, 06:41 PM

If you have an older cousin or sibling tha t looks like you can get them to claim th at they los t their drivers license. They will
get a new one and you get their old one; one of my friends did this and it works well. Someone else I know has a drivers
lice nse th at says she's 19 (she 's 16) because they made a mistake while printing it, but that s b eyond your control.
A friend of mine received a confidential bar pass through the reserves, and he's only 16. I was surprised that they gave him ID
that entitled him to go anywhere where minors are prohibited. I thought the army was a totally strict and legal institute,
especially the Canadian one.
darkdontay October 20th, 2002, 08:33 PM

Yeha you were right Elite, It worked just about ten minutes ago.. I grabbed somethings and then jumped off so it would be
opend to the next person..
MoToMaStR October 22nd, 2002, 04:30 PM

Hah, this might sound stupid,... but it works really fucking good. get a job at a retail sales place like I have. (I work at radio
shack,... go figure) Heres the trick..., if you know anything about sales,... you know about doing con work and bullshitting
customers into buying the most expensive things you sell,... shit like that. Well, iv had atleast 3 occasions where when you
stamp the recipt, and the customer leaves their credit card in the stamp, or you "accidently" forgot to give it back. Well, 2
nights ago, this woman bought 2 cell phones from me, and payed using a check. Anyone whos farmiliar with checks knows you
need a drivers liscense to use them. To make a long story short, the woman pulled out her DL wich was in a plastic sheath
along with her social security card and she left it on the counter when she left. I really wanted to take it. Theres no cameras in
my store and the manager was gone. But, to keep my reputation for being honest, I puller her check from the draw and found
her phone number and called and left a message for her to pick it up. So heres the trick, you DONT call back,.. you take the
ID's home, use that drivers liscense and social security to get a county ID,, then go to DMV and tell them you lost your drivers
liscense and give them your county id and your social security card for proof of ID. =) most places dont ask for more then your
social security card or a birth certificate. or if your ID doesnt have a picture on it,... that makes things really fucking easy. You
just say your college or school or some shit requires a picture ID, and then you have YOUR FACE on their name. and its pretty
legit. Then, when your ready, give back the origonal DL and social security card if you want. What you do from then on is your
buisness. but the main objective is getting a job in retail sales because people are so eaisly distracted and forgetfull. They
often become frustrated because your taking your time doing stuff, and they are in such a rush to get out of the place that
they forget their ID's. MWAHAHAHA! I know a few other ways of getting hold of ID's. Just ask me. haha
*edit*
not that having a 40 year old womans drivers liscense would be of use to a 17 or 18 year old kid, but you could either sell, or
give the ID to someone (like your mother who is all about commiting fraud) and apply for a credit card or something and start
taking out 300 a night from the ATM till its empty, or buy some cool shit and ruin that persons credit, hahaha. =)
[ October 22, 2002, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: MoToMaStR ]
AfterRain October 23rd, 2002, 04:29 PM

if anyone needs any temps or what not . drop me a line @ rob600s180@aol.com .
nbk2000 October 25th, 2002, 01:42 PM

ID cards found in the trash are good for buying things via mailorder that require it. Things like ammunition, pre-1898
firearms, tasers, and other shit that businesses want ID to cover their asses with.

:rolleyes: I was pointing out it was the first I'd heard of it on TV.
[ October 25, 2002, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Eliteforum ]
nbk2000 October 25th, 2002, 04:08 PM

You're really starting to become an annoyance...
Machiavelli October 25th, 2002, 04:52 PM

EF, this really is old news, trashing has been in every wannabe kiddie hacker file about credit cards since the 80s and is also
routinely used by PIs. It's even in the dreaded cookbooks...
Agent Blak November 6th, 2002, 02:16 PM

Why not apply to work at a printing shop. There you would be able to look at or pilfer the books on paper. You could ask the
Pro's question about there trade. They will be more than willing to tell you if you seem interested. just don't askk how to make
Fake ID... Ask how hey put UV seal on the paper.
SHit you would even have access to the equipment.
Dunkelmann November 10th, 2002, 09:37 AM

An important issue when using fake identities is to use
a fake genetic identity as well.
if you were to commit a crime somewhere, it is more and
more common to analyze traces of organic material to get you arrested.
my suggestion is to create a genetic camouflage:

Collect genetic material from as many people as possible
(ashtrays, hairdresser or whatever) and create a powder or similiar
containing genetic material from thousands of people and cover the scene of crime with that.
this should effectively render the process of dna screening useless, preventing you from being identified.
The use of such a genetic camouflage is becoming more and more important, as the process of dna screening is used more
and more, even for minor causes.
dkm
nbk2000 November 10th, 2002, 11:54 AM

I've thought that a good place to get hair fibers would be the waste bin from barbers. Lot's of hair and skin flakes there! :)

That would definitely be an interesting concept to work with. Maybe even on worthy of its own thread:
Providing you use proper protection(Gloves, Nylons to prevent hair and skin, etc.) they won't find any of your DNA; If it is
there, they have to find it; and if they do find any these can admit it because it is contaminated... Oh this is gold.
Dunkelmann November 10th, 2002, 06:51 PM

i thought this might be very valuable in the near future. I would be interested in developing this Idea a litte bit, so maybe
somebody will start a new Topic, i am still a Newbie here.
In Germany, thousands of citicens are screened, and i doubt that the information gathered is only used for the one special
case and discared afterwards. Soon everybody will be recognizeable by his genetic fingerprint.
My dream is to pollute a possible scene of crime with "genetic noise",

making the DNA Method much more difficult if not impossible to use.
dkm
probity November 11th, 2002, 01:18 AM

Its a good idea, not a new one though. You'd have to place it well so that everything adds up.
Off topic:
I just finished watching the movie heat and there's a scene at the end of it where they take twelve million from a bank. They
just walk out of the bank's front entrance with the money and hop in their car, however the police come and there's a major
gun fight. Anyways I was thinking, the sewer system is overlooked as an escape route... they could travel a few miles through
it (to get around the block off perimeter) and then "resurface" to meet up with their driver.

NBK2000 has had this Idea for awhile now. refered to sometimes as the Ninja turtle method or getaway...
Ctrl_C December 13th, 2002, 12:50 AM

well, this topic seems to go along well with what I'm trying to do with the counterfeit season passes. (See Issues and Opinions
thread: I need a good photoshopper)
I have a few questions. Can teslin be applied to a PVC card and the whole card laminated in a butterfly pouch? How thick is a
credit card in mils? If you get some teslin and the 10mil butterfly pouch, they are the same as a pvc card? do the edges
appear white? can photopaper and a pvc card be put into a butterfly pouch?
thanks for any input
Flake2m December 13th, 2002, 10:47 AM

About 6-9 months ago the cops raided and arrested an armed gang.
Anyway to cut a long story short the police recovered a stolen licensing machine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]"
src="eek.gif" /> . Thats right the gang actually had the intellingence/madness to steal a the machine used to create drivers
licenses.
The driver's licenses used in Australia are VERY BLOODY HARD to forge. The are made out of plastic like a credit card. They
have holograms all over the front face. The photo isn't simply stuck on the card are then laminated over, they are printed onto
the card and then a sheet of plastic with holograms is laminated over them.
So, If you live in Australia and want to be able to crank out fake ID's. It is probaly easier to break in and steal a machine that
makes them and a few thousand banks. Then to try and forge them.
I will try and find the article.
Eliteforum December 13th, 2002, 11:50 AM

No idea if these would be of any use, but I thought I'd bung em here anyhow.
Student ID: <a href="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/studentID.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.boomspeed.com/

eliteforum/studentID.jpg</a>
Highschool ID: <a href="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/highschoolID.jpg" target="_blank">http://

www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/highschoolID.jpg</a>
Driving License: <a href="http://www.boomspeed.com/eliteforum/DL.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.boomspeed.com/

eliteforum/DL.jpg</a>
Al Nobel December 13th, 2002, 06:18 PM

Does anyone know where to get german diplomas ,school reports and so on.A while ago i scanned my german Abi looked for
the correct paper and made a new one which looked really great. I`ve read about doctors working for many years who faked
their diplomas.Nice idea.
Ctrl_C December 15th, 2002, 01:31 AM

If you find a good counterfeiting forum, you can buy almost any novelty. There are reviewers etc that rate them, and there are
many people that have bought at them before. Very credible, not tough to avoid the narcs. The Cali 01's are impossible I
hear. Same w/ PA. Our holo's are full spectrum as opposed to multispectrum and are pretty intricate with 2 layers, one of which
has all the county names printed somewhat small.
Energy84 December 16th, 2002, 12:20 AM

I don't know why some people don't just make an ID from an easy to copy state or province and just pose as an out-of-
towner. I've been lucky so far since my Manitoba still hasn't started using any holograms or shit like that.
Besides, if somebody really wants a new identity, it's easy enough to get a copy of a birth certificate and from that to get an
SSN. Then with those two pieces of identity, you can actually get yourself a real drivers licence or whatever you need.
Unless of course you're trying to make money buy making these for other people... Then I'd have to say that the best quality
would be if you could 'acquire' a real printing machine :D .
nbk2000 December 22nd, 2002, 03:06 AM

<img src="http://www.microtaggant.com/graphics/polaroidani.gif" alt=" - " />
Found this at <a href="http://www.microtaggant.com/laminatefilms.htm" target="_blank">http://www.microtaggant.com/

laminatefilms.htm</a>
You'll also want to check this site too.
<a href="http://www.vinpro.com/Drivers-lic.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.vinpro.com/Drivers-lic.shtml</a>
[ December 22, 2002, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]
Arkangel December 22nd, 2002, 11:19 PM

Those links were interesting, though nothing is totally secure if you really want to try hard. Energy 84's comments were
interesting, as I know a guy who has both a UK and US driving license, and they use each for driving in the opposite country.
Cops can't be fucked with the hassle of ticketing someone that's maybe about to leave the country and they probably don't
understand too well either (obviously I'm talking about driving offences - more serious stuff is different)
I've been trying to find a contact for ages, but there was an article in some mens magazine a while ago about a company
selling passports for various former British territories. These are the pukka blue british passports, but for "the dependency of
St Helena" or something like that. If anyone knows of a company doing that, please let me know.
Edit: <a href="http://passports.netfirms.com/camouflage.html" target="_blank">Seek, and ye shall find!!!!!!</a>
Pricey though, you could buy a lot of kit for $350
[ December 22, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]
nbk2000 December 23rd, 2002, 01:18 AM

Ah, yes, the "camouflage" passport. This might work to fool some illiterate third-world terrorist into thinking you're not worth
snatching.
But don't try it with a customs inspector. They actually have to KNOW geography, and which countries still exist, and are hip to
the camouflage passports.
russian_chemist December 23rd, 2002, 03:28 PM

May i ask what possible use one has for a fake ID in real terms, and i dont want the sort of Bravado "i am a terrorist please
Placate my internet facade due to me really being a geek" type answer please.
I mean really, most of us are over 18 (or what your local law limit suggests) and it interests me as to what can be done with a
fake ID other than by Porn Cigarettes and Alcohol (though these are very good reasons)
Am i missing something here?
thanks
Russian_chemist
Anthony December 23rd, 2002, 04:41 PM

This page has info on the use of Camouflage Passports (and also sells them), they start touching on the good stuff by
mentioning being able to open an anonymous bank account:
<a href="http://www.privacyworld.com/auto/campp.html" target="_blank">http://www.privacyworld.com/auto/campp.html</a>
Serious fake ID (passport, driver's license) is the doorway to an untracable identity. Not many legitimate uses, but plenty of
"shady" ones :)
[ December 23, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Anthony ]
nbk2000 December 23rd, 2002, 06:03 PM

What use is fake ID?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Good lord man!
Tax evasion, traveling without leaving trails (like to your off-shore bank :D ), fleeing a country that doesn't like Americans (or
whatever you are), getting out from under onerous child support/alimony extortion, buying firearms without them coming back
to you, driving after having your license pulled, and just plain evasion of anyone looking for you or laws that say "You can't do
that!".
If you're a good little citizen who always pays his taxes on time, never drives above the speed limit, doesn't protest against
your governments policies, believe personal firearm possession and the 2nd amendment are obsolete concepts and the the
Police are your protectors, and that nobody would have need to hide their true national orgins in a foreign land because
"Everyone Loves Us", then I guess you'd have no need for a fake ID. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
But, if you're like me (No, I don't have any fake ID, but I go through AKA's like a playmate goes through lingerie. :D ) you:
Drive too fast without the extortion known as mandatory insurance or the "privilege" of a drivers "license".
Like your guns (a LOT) even though the law says you can't own them.
Don't want Big Brother to know you went to thailand to bang dozens of 14 year old gook whores, even though every GI in asia
did the same thing since WW2, 'cause BB doesn't like that and might put you in prison for things you did in another country
where it's perfectly legal. :rolleyes:
Or, to the caymans to keep the IRS thieves from taken half of the money you made.
Not that I have done, am doing, or will do any of the above things. But, if I ever decide to do so, I may be doing so under a
name other than my own.
Suck on THAT BB! :p
[ December 23, 2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]

I dont think i will ever have the fake ID that many of you proclaim. Instead i feel that you should do the following to avoid
many types of detection.
Look through the records of any town hall (make it a large one so the people can not quite so easily nit pick a mistake) and
find the record of a recently deceased person that would match your generation, 5 years younger or older should suffice.
Then it is up to you to look in to the background of the deceased, I found out very easily for my ghost that he was in the
LASER (London And South East Region/Regiment) of the Air Training Corps.
I found that being an Air Training Corps myself i could send off for his 3822 (the book of identification that you are to carry as
a manditory Identification check) ((colour varies from Purple to Red to Blue))
From this i was able to assertain the whereabouts of his dwelling, lifestyle academic achievment, and very much his whole
personal profile.
From the internet (uk residents) <a href="http://www.192.com" target="_blank">www.192.com</a> i could find a gps of his
house and find that he didnt or had ever lived close to me in a radius of 100 miles. Thats when you send off for your Library
card in your area, knowing they dont really fuss and you tell them that you have moved there from the deceased persons
(Rough adress) and from the library card you can access the National Union of Students and ask to be provided with an
identification mark bearing the name of your ghost, and then finally ending up with a bank card, using two correlating cards
(National Student union Card) (Library Card).
Something that you need to remember is that you can only get a savings account with the flimsy Identification that you will
have, so dont try for higher as it is not worth having to look for another ghost. Once you have the savings account, Library
Card and NUS card along with the 3822, on paper you have a new person.
points to add
-Be willing to put 25 pounds in the saving account to assure rest to the bank staff that dont bother paying customers
-Only use your Alias in paperwork and Identification Crisis
-------This is how far i am, i do wonder, what my next step should be. I have many doors open to me.
*ghost (the dead person that you now live from on paper!)
<a href="http://www.192.com" target="_blank">www.192.com</a> gives you a free 6 credits too, thats is 5 more than you will
ever need to do this task.
I would be happy to go in to far more detail in a RTPB article if such people as NBK wish for me to do so. I could easiily fill
three pages on what you can achieve with the right timing.
[ December 23, 2002, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: russian_chemist ]
nbk2000 December 23rd, 2002, 07:38 PM

It wouldn't be an RTPB. That's a short, and memorable, rule to avoid police "interest".
What you'd be writing would be an aricle for the DVD/PDF/whatever it ends up being.
I'm assuming this is strictly British? Or could it be done in the other commonwealth states like Scotland/Ireland?
Write it up man. The UK mods will review it for accuracy, and I'm looking to expand my DVD material to include a global
audience. Even intend a world tour someday.

i feel it wouldnt take me long to write up a few versions for use in the field, and if there are any problems, i would be more
than happy to revert it back in to American Colloquial as well as british.
i could also write it for the french, but well basically put, fuck them. Talking of Fuck that nationality i can write in german to, but
you get my drift :D
Arkangel December 23rd, 2002, 09:59 PM

Russian_Chemist, one of the things that has impressed me most about this forum, is that no matter how sure of myself I am
about a subject, there is someone here who can trip me up, or put me straight, or point out that a seemingly worthwhile post
is a crock of shit. Today, that is my job for you. :D
I can t be arsed to go through it in my full precocious majesty, but I ll point out a few of yo ur more obvious howlers.

Helvetica">
Look through the records of any town hall................and find the record of a recently deceased person that would match your
generation, 5 years younger or older should suffice.<hr /></blockquote>A recently deceased person aroun d my age, but with a 10-year margin of erro r? Hard to pull off if you re 15. The
day of the Jackal described this, and identity theft of this kind is very commonplace with the people smugglers operating at
the moment. My understanding is that th ey look for d ead children, b orn in the sa me ye ar as the s m ugglee , since no b a n k
account, passport or driving licence would currently exist, or ever even have been applied for by this identity.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Then it is up to you to look in to the background of the deceased, I found out very easily for my ghost that
he was in the LASER (London And South East Region/Regiment) of the Air Training Corps<hr /></blockquote>That would be London and South East REGION. There are no Regiments in the
ATC, n or eve n the Air Force, except the RAF Regiment, and that is m ore of a Corps , organised by Group, Wing, Squ adron,
Flight, and fin ally, Section. If all you ca n find out about him is th at he wa s in the AT C th en I thin k yo u re fucked.

Arial, Helvetica">I found that being an Air Training Corps myself i could send off for his 3822 (the book of identification that
you are to carry as a manditory Identification check) ((colour varies from Purple to Red to Blue)) <hr /></
blo ck quote>Oh dear, bullshit alert RED here . <im g border="0" title=""
alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Sin ce when was the RAF Form 3822 a Mandatory ID Check? It s o fficial title is Record of Service and you don t even have to
put a photo in????
Y o u re supposed to carry it o n ATC activities, but it is not, nor ever has been mandatory. :p
Can you tell me what ye ars it was red or pu rple? I ve only ever heard of them be ing shades of blue. :confus ed:
How does being in the ATC allow you to apply for a copy of his 3822, when no such document exists or could be produced? The
original is either with the grieving parents, or with their last Sqn, and neither of them is going to send it to you on the basis
that you are the "rightful owner". (falls of chair laughing!!! :D )

Arial, Helvetica">From this I was able to assertain the whereabouts of his dwelling, lifestyle academic achievment, and very
much his whole personal profile.<hr /></blockquote>True, it should
contain some personal details, but you re coming about them a hard way if the FIRST thing you find tha t this person was in
the ATC (and not many currently dead kids were)

Arial, Helvetica">From the internet (uk residents) <a href="http://www.192.com" target="_blank">www.192.com</a> i could
find a gps of his house<hr /></blockquote>What ARE you talking
a b o u t? A GPS of his hous e

Helvetica">Thats when you send off for your Library card ..... knowing they dont really fuss...tell them that you have moved
.....the library card you can access the National Union of Students..........then finally ending up with a bank card, using two
correlating cards (National Student union Card) (Library Card)<hr /></blockquote>Why not apply for, or MAKE fake ID to get a real NUS card or Library card in your new identity????
MY points to add

Arial, Helvetica">Be willing to put 25 pounds in the saving account to assure rest to the bank staff that dont bother paying
custo mers</fon t><hr /></blockquote>EASY Tiger .Twe nty five wh ole QUID!!!
($37 ish) If you d written this shit in English, maybe we d have und erstoo d what the fuck you were talking abou t. And what the
FUCK use is a savings account....how do you order ANYTHING over the web or phone with a paying in book?

Helvetica">Only use your Alias in paperwork and Identification Crisis<hr /></blockquote>Groans.......realising that there is only so much horseshit that a person can point out in one
day.

Arial, Helvetica">This is how far i am, i do wonder, what my next step should be. I have many doors open to me<hr /
></blockquote>Your next step, kiddo, is to stop talking out of your arse.
Your generous offe r of a 3 page article on the subject soun ds like hilarious reading, so when you ve done it, let u s know and
let s h ave a giggle.
Too many people with too little to say end up saying far too much. I s uspect you re on e of them, and h ave to let you know
that this forum is not the place to do it. Someone WILL point you out for the idiot that you are.
NBK, my ad vice is don t waste your tim e with him, you pro bably have to read enough garbage as it is. I'd sa y that he/she is
currently an air cadet with little of value to say, but is trying to impress people with stuff they might not know.......OOOOPS :D
Oh, and Russian_Chemist (not the ghost of rc I hope?), my final piece of advice is if you're genuinely from England (I'm
SOOOOOOO Proud :rolleyes: ), try to learn to read and fucking write in ENGLISH......or at the very least find out where the
spellcheck is on your computer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> (I bet the majority of the "Sand
Niggers" in the UK can do it better than you)
teslinforsale November 1st, 2003, 07:45 AM

SPAM!
DropNazi November 1st, 2003, 04:30 PM

In the Customs world for the quality of a fake they use the distance at how far they could tell its a fake. The photos of the
Camo Passports are really small and maybe represent how it would look at 10 feet, and there is a huge mistake on all of
them. Any1 who looks at passports would find this mistake easy including terrorist.
Flake2m November 2nd, 2003, 12:51 AM

It is harder to get hold of decent fake IDs. However the real question is; where does an Aussie look to find a decent fake ID?
I know in the UK the method of using a dead person to create a new Identity still works, 30 years after it was exposed in The
day of the Jackal. All the records office needs to do is purchase some stamps and stamp the records with a D for duplicate.
If I went to the UK, It would be intresting to see how hard it would be to create a new idenity and new British passport.
Aggy November 13th, 2003, 07:04 AM

Regarding the UK drivers licence i found a little text a while ago explaining the process in creating a novelty id. Swim thought
about giving it a go but comparing the prices of purchasing the equipment against simply buying one swim chose the latter..
Guide to the UK DL
by GiB_uk
I would not recommend doing anything in this article, and it is all for informational use only.
In this i will talk about the UK DL in detail, the features, and how these COULD be recreated. Will cover both the full and
provisional.
Whats does it look like?

Both licence's are very alike with the main difference been the color. Full is Pink, and the provisional is Green. Both have color
on the front and back. Front has the picture and info and the back has what can be driven and a barcode.
The Full can bee seen here, when loaded it will show front and back.
http://www.gib.5u.com/cgi-bin/i/Provukdl.gif
The provisional one is the same but green.
A few tips:
Temp must be started from scratch, no scanning.
This will take time.
Now we will look at the security features and features in detail.
The background on both cards is very detailed. This is mainly to stop people scanning and printing. This is why a temp must
be made from scratch. The front has vertical lines, i belive there are about 80 per inch, these lines are pink or green and have
white text over them, the text on the provisional has the word provisional 'waved' over it. The full on has different languages
and word waved over it. The back design is very complex with DVLA printed in triangles with lots of horizontal thin lines. These
can only be created from scratch, and require a laser printer to print well.
The font is not a normal font. It is very like Arial, but not exactly. The 'B's are bolder. The line on the 'A' is lower. The middle
line of the E is shorter. and the zeros have a dot on them. This only applies to the capital letters. These are all on the front,
the back is in small case. So a font must be created or edited from scratch, this can be done using a font editor.
Both the front and back of the card have a gold refective holo.
This can be recreated using gold inter and the alps method. Or it can be done using PhotoEZ but this is longer and the results
are not as good. The holo is the word 'DVLA' printed over the card repeatedly, this covers the bottom half of the front and the
top 3/4's of the back. The font appears to be Arial. The alps method is explained by lighthawk here:
This method produces 600 DPI holograms which are far superior to any hologram method known to date. These holograms will
not wash off under water, nor can they be scratched off by a fingernail. They are, without a doubt-- truly amazing.
Pearl Ex Alps Hologram Method
Materials:
An ALPS MD-1000, MD-1300, or MD-5000 printer
1 Alps Finish Ribbon
1 Transparency
Pearl-Ex interference gold powder
A butterfly pouch
Summary :
Using your finger, dust the entire inside of your butterfly pouch with a coat of Pearl Ex interference gold powder
Flip the image in Photoshop (Edit > Transform > Flip Horizontal) and Print the image in black onto a transparency (inkjet or
laser). This is now your print template. Tape the pouch, with the back flap pointing down, on to the transparency over the spot
you printed. This ensures that the image will be printed accurately on to the pouch.
Delete the background layer of the hologram template, so there is a checkered background. Then in print options, set your
paper to 'laser' then hit the 'use spot colors' button and set it to Finish [Glossy Finish].
Make sure you are printing on the inside of our butterfly pouch. Now print the hologram template.
Our pearl ex hologram is now bonded to the surface of the pouch and can not be removed by water or scratching. Either lightly
run finger over pouch under water to get rid of excess powder or use scotch tape to lift up the rest of the powder from the
pouch.
You should now be left with an incredible 600 DPI hologram.
Around the top left logos on the front of both cards is micro printing. It appears to be just a border at first. The provisonal one
has the word 'provisional' printed around it and 'United Kingdom' is printed on the full one. These can only be printed on a
laser printer.
Over the photo there are lines. These thin lines are curved and start outside the photo and curve accross it. These can be
recreated on your temp and the layer put over the photo. Do not try to trace lines from a scan, you need to use a curved line
tool and do from scratch.
The photo is in the bottom left corner and has a ghost image of it to the right of it. Both photos have what has been decribed
as 'pesky photo lines'. These can be recreated in a few ways. If you have a very good laser printer you could possibly print
these lines and put them on your temp.
The Jerm provides very good info on how to do this with an epson, here it is :
First, your template has to be set to 1800 dpi. I know that sounds excessive but it's the only way it'll work.
Next, create a layer of white vertical lines, one pixel wide and separated from each other by one pixel of blank space, that
covers the entire photo area.
Make another layer exactly the same except with black lines instead of white and move it over one pixel to the left or right so
that the black lines are interlaced with the white lines. The photo should now be completely covered.
Finally, change the Blend Mode (this option is directly to the left of Opacity) for both layers to Overlay and set the black lines
layer's opacity to 50%.
When you print, choose Photo Paper as the media, 2880 dpi, and turn Smooth Edge off.
Between the the photo is what can be described as 'a seal type thing'. This is round and has light color on it, and dark lines
within it. It over laps the photos. This can be done by doing your temp in layers, so that the seal is in front of the pics.
The front also has a Driver number. This a number given to the licence and can be checked. It is made up like this :
First 5 characters of surname. If the surname is less than 5 characters the figure 9 will be added to the gaps. (e.g. MAN99).
Next six numbers: First and last numbers are the year of birth. Second and third numbers are the month of birth. (Note: in the
case of female licence holders `5' is added to the second digit, this means that the second digit will be 5 or 6). The fourth and
fifth digits are the day of the month of your birth.
Next two numbers: The first two initials of your forenames. If you have only one initial then the second character will be a `9'.
The last 3 digits are computer check digits.
The Front and back also have UV designs, the back is a DVLA design, and front is a complex design. these can be seen here:
Front:http://www.mrxnovelties.f2s.com/ukdl%20frontuv.gif
Back: http://www.mrxnovelties.f2s.com/ukdl%20backuv.gif
You should experiment with clearneon ink for this.
The cards thickness is best recreated using one sheet of laser teslin and a .7mil pouch. The edges on the card are rounded off
towards the front side of the card, almost like wraped around the edges to meet the flat front laminate. The best way to do
this is with glass type sand paper.
List of Equipment.
You will need:
1 laser printer to print on teslin
1 alps printer (md1000, md1300 or md5000) to print holos on pouches
1 inkjet, to hack and print UV onto teslin
1 laminator, pref with heat adjustments.
Laser teslin (Teslin SP 1000).
Credit card butterfly pouches 7 mil.
Pearlex gold interference.
UV ink
Do not do any of the above.

Thanks for any info i used off people.
Sorry if spelling is crap.
Feedback welcome.
GiB_uk ;)
Rhadon November 13th, 2003, 05:25 PM

Your last two links don't work for me.
wrench352 January 14th, 2004, 04:47 AM

Does anyone know anything about the novelty ID template on the ftp. The name of the file is template AfRa. The quality is
exceptional and I'd like to find who produced it. Also this template comes with a number generator does anybody know
anything about these,algorythms involved etc.
Robot February 4th, 2004, 03:09 PM

Efnet @ #fakeid
Fakeid.ru
bipolar May 29th, 2004, 10:36 AM

Fake ID
OK this is how me and my friends make or used to make pretty good Fake ID from a template. this won't work if you use one
of the newer licenses which probably every state has/is switching too. Try to get a hold of the older version of the ids from
someone if you can, this may not work in some states but it did in mine and the old ones still can't be expired yet.
you just get an old id or get an extra one and soak it in rubbing alcohol for 20 minutes,
then bend back and forth a little to get the hologram to start coming off, then slowly peel it all the way off. then sand the face
of the card off. take the completed template printed out on photopaper cut it out in a rectangle larger then the original card
and then put gluestick all over the card on the sanded side and place the cut out template on the card and look into light with
it so you can center it perfectly on card, then cut paper off the edges of the card, then take the hologram you took off earlier
on the card perfectly centered and slowly iron over it with the Iron on lowest setting some people put cloth over it, you can't go
over it too much or it with start to burn and stuff. and you have a brand new fake ID, thats assuming you know how to use
photoshop to edit the premade template and put your photo on there.
New ID
This really looks like something looking into right now. nothing would be better than this. I just read the book "The Paper Trip
III the master guide to new ID", I have had it for a while and never read it until now. I recommend buying the book , delta
press sells it and eden press is the publisher they sell it too on their website. I'll describe a breif over view of what you do.
this is how to create a whole new person out of thin air, not stealing a dead persons or an alive person. There are other
options but this one seems like the best. first you pick a state you want to be born in that has the easiest process with a
Delayed Certificate of Birth. A delayed certificate of birth is for someone who's birth was just never recorded, and you managed
with out ever having a birth certificate, like if your parents were a hippy and you were born in a commune or something. Then
you make your new full name up your birthdate and the city and county and state you were born in. Then you write the state's
Office of Vital Records and Health Statistics with the proper fee telling them all this fake information and asking them for a
copy of your birth certificate and then if they don't find it then they will send you an application for a Delayed Certificate of
Birth where you write all this information and you just put unknown for parents and you have to send in at least 1, 2( in some
states) form of ID, such as a baptismal certificate, school record or certificate, medical records. This is great cause you can buy
blank baptismal certificates at church supply stores over the internet, just search for it. Then you send all this in, and you will
get your delayed certificate of birth. Then once you have that you get your social security number, which if your new ID is 18 or
older you now have to go in person to the SSA and they interveiw you, This is really just for trying to psych you out of trying it,
I read that its just a simple 5 minute interview asking you everything you wrote on the form and stuff and you have to come
up with a story about why you need one or why you don't already have one, like your parents were strongly anti-government
and didn't want you to have one and you haven't really needed it until now so you never got it. Then its all downhill from there
and you go to the DMV and get your drivers license and you get a mail drop from the UPS store or a Mail Forwarding service
and use it on your drivers license because you can do that and you can get it on your motor vehicle registration also, you
might have to make up a story for this like your a private investigator and you live in your RV and you don't live in any
particular state but you will be in this state for a couple years and thats the only way you can recieve mail. anyway you
probably want to use a mail drop through this entire process. but I really recomend buying this book or someone else
scanning it, because Its pretty thick and its not an out of print book or anything. But if you do this I recomend you start
working on it as soon as possible and always have it prepared incase you do need to escape or something and before fed law
gets to crazy and the matrix system merges all state drivers license photos and puts them in the face scanning database or
something
nbk2000 June 1st, 2004, 12:29 PM

Someone forgot that keyboards now come with option RETURN keys, which are used for making paragraphs where once were
one giant run-on sentence. ;)
wrench352 June 1st, 2004, 07:24 PM

For those truly interested in high quality novelty IDs:
http://www.phonyid.com/home.html
I'm told the magentic strip even reads correctly.
kld1648temp June 1st, 2004, 09:52 PM

I never post, but I'll make an exception; phonyid.com is a scam. Search Google: Groups for yourselves. I was very interested
in a not-so-legit ID from them a few years back, but after looking into it more and more, found out that they were bogus.
Anyway, be wary, quality like that usually can't be bought online.
wrench352 June 2nd, 2004, 03:13 AM

Whoops my bad,indeed it seems those guys have a bad rep. The site I meant to link to was here.
http://www.fakeidguru.com/
Sorry bout that y'all. And no I havent done business with em yet,but I should have something to post about soon.Anybody
have anything bad to say about these guys?And no Im not pullin names out of a hat,I just got sloppy.Thanks kld.
bipolar June 2nd, 2004, 07:46 PM

Someone forgot that keyboards now come with option RETURN keys, which are used for making paragraphs where once were
one giant run-on sentence. ;)
Sorry about the big run on sentence guys. Next time I will try to do it right. I am just really lazy about it sometimes. But I do
think that the New ID is something to look into, especially before the fedgov starts cracking down harder. Maybe I can scan in
some of the "gold" from the book, as a lot of it is "fluff".
nbk2000 June 3rd, 2004, 05:18 PM

You can't buy a fake ID on the 'net that's a replica of a state or government issued ID.
Either the site would be busted within days, and their buyers rounded up, or it's a sting operation by the feds. Either way you'd
be asking for an ass-raping.
The only way to get a fake ID is to either make it yourself, co-op someone who works at a government office that issues
them, or identity theft (with all its attendant risks).
Best way, if you have the need, is to make it yourself. Not only is this an interesting hobby ;), but also teaches you to fish,
rather than having the fish given to you. And, since you make them yourself, no one else knows what identity you're using,
and you can make them as needed, and develop skills that can be used in other fields.
richierichtx May 22nd, 2006, 02:57 PM

i tried to connect to the ftp site , but i couldn't connect, let me make sure i got this right...
host: *
port: 21
username: *
password: *
richierichtx May 22nd, 2006, 03:10 PM

i tried to connect to the ftp site but i couldn't, let me make sure i got this all right...
host/address : *
port : 21
username: *
password: *
+++++
Fucking idiot! Posting log-in details in a public forum! That's what PM and e-mail is for.
BANNED!
NoltaiR May 22nd, 2006, 10:07 PM

While I have no use for a fake ID now because of my age.. at the time this was posted I wish I would have seen this thread!
Well I just wanted to add that about 3 years ago I purchased a fake ID off of eBay. They have long since banned the selling
of them on there but for about 3 months, there was 3 or 4 different guys that were selling IDs for different states. I live in
Texas but in a college town where there are almost as many out-of-staters as natives.
So I bought an ID from Florida.. sent in a picture and my fake info.. and in the good spirit of eBay, I recieved the ID about 2
weeks later. The main problem was that the guy didn't have a hologram on it because of some security reason. Luckily there
were just as many people on eBay selling hologram stickers.. none were the correct ones for the states, but when you are
carrying an ID from a state that far away, no one has the right sticker memorized.
A few months later I lost the ID and when I tried to contact the seller to buy a new one, he informed me that he wasn't allowed
to sell them anymore and that eBay would cancel his account if attempted to.
So my point is, in all of this, if you are making a fake/novelty ID.. consider using one from another state that people won't be
able to recognize very well.. so things like font and item placement can have a little margin of error in them.
ShadowMyGeekSpace May 22nd, 2006, 11:31 PM

Thought this would be worth adding: http://www.highprogrammer.com/cgi-bin/uniqueid
nbk2000 May 23rd, 2006, 04:54 AM

Having worked retail sales, I can tell you that, if the store sells alcohol, and the clerk gives a shit (or just wants to bust your
chops), then it's very easy for him to do so.
There's a thing called an ID verification book, that has photos of every state ID for the last decade, along with the details of
what to look for. They're free from various liquor and beer manufacturers, and state alcohol agencies.
I never caught anyone trying to use a fake, which either means they had excellent fakes ,or knew I'd bust 'em and didn't even
try. :)
You can likely depend on the laziness of the person you're showing the fake ID to, but be aware that it's easy to get busted if
they know what they're doing and are inclined to do it.
Jacks Complete May 24th, 2006, 09:10 PM

If "rolling your own" read http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/tools-techniques-plans/5278-hidden-data-colour-laser-prints.html
before you do!
Also, check any IDs you have bought, just in case.
JakeGallows May 28th, 2006, 11:35 PM

I think that the idea of utilizing the hologram from an old id to create a new one is a good one. I tried this years ago, and had
some level of success, I was able to separate the hologram "sticker" from the PVC card.
Obviously after you get the hologram is a PVC card that has an id printed on it (printers capable of this easily bought from
eBay or online stores) and a way to attach the hologram to the id.
Fake ID
Try to get a hold of the older version of the ids from someone if you can, this may not work in some states but it did in mine
and the old ones still can't be expired yet.
you just get an old id or get an extra one and soak it in rubbing alcohol for 20 minutes, then bend back and forth a little to
get the hologram to start coming off, then slowly peel it all the way off.
The problem now is that I tried getting the hologram off another id I have (for the second time) but was unable to get even a
little corner off. I tried soaking it in rubbing alcohol but with no success. Has anyone else tried this with success? Tried other
substances? I wonder if a little heat might help?
Having a limited supply of id cards with holograms I'd prefer to hear others experiences before continuing to destroy my own.
nbk2000 May 29th, 2006, 02:25 PM

id (d), noun.
In Freudian theory, the division of the psyche that is totally unconscious and serves as the source of instinctual impulses and
demands for immediate satisfaction of primitive needs.
Somehow I don't think this is what you are referring to in the above post, are you?
Perhaps ID is what you meant?
Not only is spelling and grammer important here, but capitalization of acronyms when needed.
I'm not being harsh. I just reminding you (and others) that all aspects of our language must be respected to prevent
confusion that can lead to unintended consequences.
I'm sure Noltair will be happy with the riddle I just produced to illustrate this point.
Which is which?
id
id
id
id
One is used to refer to yourself, another to ego, another to identification, and the final one to the makers of electronic games.
The only thing that allows them to be differentiated is capitalization and punctuation marks.
Don't worry! This isn't a prelude to banning. Just an illustration of the importance of strict adherance to proper language skills
to avoid confusion.
TreverSlyFox June 27th, 2006, 08:32 AM

abaker86,
What the hell are you, nuts? Your a Newbie with 3 posts and you ask in a PUBLIC forum post if several members will make
and sell you Illegal Identification. That alone should get you eaten by the Beast!
But you have to go even one step further and quote their entire posts to ask a one line question that should have been PM'ed
at the least. Don't know what a PM is? Then your too stupid to even be here.
NBK,
For lunch we have a quite enjoyable little dish being served in the main dinning room. I'm sure it will be to your standards for
youth, tenderness and blood. May I suggest it be eaten raw with just a touch of garlic salt.
selo July 7th, 2006, 10:09 AM

There is laser printer teslin, which you don't want unless you have a color laser printer, and inkjet printer teslin, which has one
side of the teslin coated to work with inkjet printers.
......
Since inkjet teslin only has one side coated, printing on the back is more difficult. Colors won't come out right
You can solve the problem of one-side coated Inkjet Teslin by using Laser Teslin with some other inkjet printers.
Epson Inkjet Stylus C83, C85, C87, 2000, 2200, R200, R800 and R1800 can print on Laser Teslin 'paper'... ( I guarantee R800
& R1800 with perfect printing & better than laser printers).
For best resolution choose 'Premium Glossy Paper' media from the settings of the printer.
Advice: Good Counterfeiters must own Epson Photo Stylus R800.. It's perfect (5760 dpi , 1.5 pL , $550).
How thick is a credit card in mils? thanks for any input
30 mils
If you get some teslin and the 10mil butterfly pouch, they are the same as a pvc card?
I use Teslin with thickness = 300 micron (about 11 mils) and 250 micron (10mil) butterfly pouch => perfect thickness [can't
differentiate it from the real].
do the edges appear white?
Edges don't appear white with me.. maybe 'cause I am counterfeiting light-color cards.. if white edges appear , you can just
paint them with wooden color pencils (I don't know what you call them in your country).. It works pretty well since the Teslin is
thin.. There's - also - Teslin with thickness = 180 micron (7mil) , you can use it if you want !.
can photopaper and a pvc card be put into a butterfly pouch?
I tried laminating photopaper with butterfly pouch, and it goes pretty well.. I don't know for the PVC.
-----
http://counterfeitlibrary.com/cl/forums/default.asp
http://www.the-hive.ws/
The links aren't working.
Because you need to Use The Fucking Search Engine [Google, perhaps?] and find out why yourself.
Also, sentences end with a single
NOT
..
Oh, and 'self-signing' your posts with your username at the end is strictly prohibited. Don't do it again, please.
You've not been banned outright because you seem to have contributed something, though whether you'll last here depends
on you.
meestaeimaj July 9th, 2006, 08:54 AM

Does anyone know how to actually copy the UV marks on ID cards ? I know that UV ink can be purchased so it's fairly
straightforward to print, but how would one obtain a scan or an image of the UV mark in order to trace it in photoshop ?
Thanks in advance
selo July 17th, 2006, 05:38 AM

Does anyone know how to actually copy the UV marks on ID cards ? I know that UV ink can be purchased so it's fairly
straightforward to print, but how would one obtain a scan or an image of the UV mark in order to trace it in photoshop ?
Thanks in advance
The best way I use is by taking a photo using a digital camera.

1- Put the mark under UV light.
2- Take a perpendicular photo for the mark.
3- Redraw it using photoshop.
4- Resize it to the actual size of the mark.
bipolar July 17th, 2006, 06:20 AM

In regards to someone asking about where to find templates. There are no good templates to be found that I know of
anymore. There are always poorly made outdated ones on P2P networks.
The only high quality templates I've seen in the past were considered proprietary and sold for a few hundred bucks. Now I
don't know of any public or private forum or site that exists about the serious art of Fake Identification.
Does anyone happen to know about such a site?
Your best bet is to obtain an actual ID from the desired state, scan, and photoshop.
With a few photoshop tutorials down, its not that hard to do 50% of the states right now. Some of the newer ones seem
impossible.
You can also obtain full quality copies of front's of the ID's by getting a Driver's License Guide. They also include details of
hologram, type of barcode, type of card, and other security features.
I have heard the US Indentification Manual actually contains real samples of every US Drivers License. Though it is very
expensive.
Here is the link to the company that sells those two products. http://www.driverslicenseguide.com/
You might have to pose as a company, bar, or store to get a copy of it. Use a "custom" letterhead or something. If someone
gets a copy please scan and upload.
Another thing to think about is just designing generic templates from out of state across the country. No official seals or
anything. You can use generic holograms. Maybe even just a fake College ID, or Corporate ID.
All these types of ID's can be used for good social engineering. If you dress and act the part no one will question you.
JakeGallows July 18th, 2006, 07:18 PM

I agree with Bipolar. I think that the correct way to get a fake ID card is to social engineer it. Consider the last time you went
into the DMV - it's a government agency, they employ the lowest rung of society. They barely do their job and usually have to
deal with people who are angry and irritated after standing in line for hours. If you are friendly and you make it easy for them,
they generally won't hassle you.
Now the flip side is that you need to make it easy for them which can be difficult for you. You need to have what they will ask
for - and you should look into what they'll ask for because each state is different. I recently discovered that California wants a
thumbprint and will verify your SSN as you stand there. Usually they require a primary ID/Proof of Name and DOB (passport,
driver's license, certified birth certificate), one or more secondaries/Proof of Identity (student ID card, work ID, etc.) and
something showing you live in the state (energy bill, cable bill, etc.)
The student ID card is relatively easy, particularly if you are already working on a state ID, since most have no security
features. Getting or faking a cable bill should be a snap. So the difficult portion is securing a "state-issued" proof of identity. I
think that's where making a realistic looking ID comes in. Doesn't have to be perfect - just enough that between your charm
and their glance at it, nothing seems amiss.
Consider the following as an experiment: look up what you need in your state, acquire the legitimate versions of it (your
Driver's License, your work ID, and your cable bill, etc.) and go into the DMV and ask for a State-issued ID card. Tell them that
you almost lost your wallet and you wanted to get one to keep around the house for a backup. There's a dozen legitimate
reasons to get one. Watch what they do, and consider what problems you might run into. I suspect that most people will find
that by being courteous and friendly they will simply use your ID to input your information, briefly verify that the IDs match the
cable bill and you'll be on your way with a state-issued ID.
nbk2000 July 19th, 2006, 06:26 AM

You can also 'chip' a new ID.
That's where you alter only one letter of your last name, then social engineer a new ID based on the 'typo'.
For instance, your last names is Darnes, and get an ID in that name.
So you change your birth certificate by one letter (much easier than the whole thing), go back the next day and show them the
'typo' they made, and your last name is actually Farnes.
Take that to another state, and now it becomes Farmes.

In two steps, you've completely changed your real name, and it's all legal shit, and you can always deny it as a typo.
Reason it'd work is because it's very plausible. Look at your keyboard. Notice how D is next to F, and M to N? How often does it
happen some clerk mistypes letters that are right next to each other? ;)
Oh, and use a gummy finger for the thumbprint.
selo July 20th, 2006, 03:38 PM

I think that the correct way to get a fake ID card is to social engineer it.
Not necessary. Counterfeiting a fake ID to look like real one isn't hard.
Yes, if you aren't a "Most Wanted" or you need an ID every two years, then social engineer it.
But if the police and/or the intelligence are searching for you or your dead body , or you change your identity frequently then
you need a counterfeited ID.
Buying a fake ID isn't a good choice. You have to do it by yourself.
To be a counterfeiter you need two things : patience and about $3000.
$3000 to buy a computer, suitable printer, high resolution scanner, paper, inks, UV lamp, serigaphic tools, and some other
tools and stuff.
I solved most of the security features found in the national ID in my country.
They are:
1- micro-printing : solve it with Epson Stylus Photo R800.
2- UV marks: UV inks + serigraphy.
3- color shifting mark: pearl powder (used in paint) + serigraphic solvents + serigraphy. [If you can get color shifting inks then
you're lucky]
4- Gold and Silver marks: powder used by painters + serigraphy.
5- PDF417 barcode: not solved. It is encrypted using 54-bit DES. I hope I can solve it soon. Any suggestion is welcomed. I
made it unreadable so If the cops tried to check it then It not come to be different data.
6- rough pouch: solve it by dashing the normal smooth pouch with some kind of vernish used for wood (it is called in our
language 'Lakar').
It's needless to say that 'paper' used is 10mil-Teslin.
So, to be counterfeiter, you just need to be good in photoshop and in screen-printing. Many tutorials are found on internet,
you have to learn and practice, then you own a wealthy job.
My clients traveled to other countries using fake IDs and passports. If you worked much on yourself you can make fake IDs
that you can't differentiate it from real ones.
Live free, and offer others freedom and gain some nice cash :) .
Dank$taVegas July 22nd, 2006, 05:13 PM

Does anybody have any info about fake ID's and how to make them? I'm looking for stuff like, printers, software packages,
paper, ink, resolutions and the sort. any info is appreciated.
Looks like you live in Canada as well, I have been interested in the idea of making fake identification card as well for a while.
Most of the books that are published on the topic are either out of date when they a published or are not applicable to your
current country. Although they do give you some insight into techniques used in making different parts of a card. Our new style
of licenses (1 piece plastic) in Canada seems to be almost impossible to fake, with all the security features imbedded into the
actual license (Holograms, Bar scanner, and the special printing of your name & DOB above your actual picture not to mention
the government data base which contains all the actual information on computers).
If your planning on using a Canadian fake identification card made in your home for anything other than buying booze,
smokes, getting into bars, they will not work, since all the Canadian license come from Ottawa. When you go in to a Registry
to obtain a new Identification card, you need to provide 1 piece of picture identification (Passport, Drivers license etc), along
with that you will need 1 piece of second identification (same as above or social insurance number, Birth certificate, etc) then
you will also need some kind of bill showing your current address (this is easily faked). Once you have filled out all the proper
paper work, they take your picture, and give you a temporary piece of paper while they send your information to Ottawa, where
they make and mail the card to the address you have provided.
So if you identification card didn't come form Ottawa then your card will only be good for limited things (booze, smokes &
some bars) and will not be vary useful if you have bigger ideas you want to use the card for (Guns, license plates etc), which it
will not work for, since it hasn't been put through the data base and when you try to use it for one of the above it will with out a
doubt come back as a fake when they run it through the system, and you will be caught red handed. Even now some bars in
Alberta/B.C are incorporating a new computer data base system which they scan everyone's identification card on, this will
confirm that the identification card is not a fake or stolen & also logs you in as being present at the bar the night in question.
Due to the recent number of stabbings and shooting at night clubs in the area.
Now here is in my eyes the only two plausible ways to obtain a legitimate fake identification card.
1) Identity Theft of a set of identification documents that resemble you, and fabricating a fake gas bill to change your current
address to have the new documents sent to. This method has its, down side as well. Depending on where the cards came from
they may have been reported stolen.
In the past I have been able to obtaining a fake or look a like, by means of my old job (which I will not go into details about)
but I use to acquire a lot of things, in exchange for goods. One thing I was more than willing to trade people for was wallets
with identification card, Social insurance cards, Birth certificates & Passports. I have managed to acquire 2 sets of look alike
cards that resembled me to a good degree. One of which I took the chance and renewed about 1year ago and it worked. I had
the address changed to one of my customers with the use of a fake ATCO gas bill, the customer then delivered the
identification cards when they arrived in exchange for more goods (a small price to pay). It was a win, win situation for me.
2) NBK2000's 'chip' idea
With these two methods you are getting an actual piece of identification that came from the government. So it will have been
entered into the computer data base rendering the identification card authentic. This card can then be used to obtain other
identification documents and also be used to run a secret identity. You will be able to get plates for a car, get required gun
licenses and all the good stuff most people would like to use the identification card for.
I never thought of the 'chip' idea but that is brilliant, take a stolen birth certificate and touch it up changing a few letters,
make a second piece of identification (Fairly simple) to go with you new birth certificate and a forged gas bill and you have a
new person to play around with.
The Alberta birth certificate cards are very basic and would be a snap to alter and re-laminate! Although the only problem I
might see with this is that, every birth certificate has a registration number, so if you were to change that number I'm
assuming it would come back as a fake when they entered it into their data base.
It sure would be nice to know someone who worked at a "Registry" so I could pick their brains about how the system works.
I'm not sure how other Countries work, and this information about Canada is only limited to a few personal experiences &
common scne.
nbk2000 July 23rd, 2006, 05:58 AM

No, no!
Not several letters, ONE letter.
It needs to sound similiar to your real name, and ideally be adjacent to each other on the keyboard. This is the requirement
for the plausibility needed for it to work.
You alter it one letter at a time, not several at once. RTPB "Don't get greedy".
selo July 23rd, 2006, 10:15 AM

All security features are solvable.
- Holograms can be solved. There are holographic sheets used for book's cover illustration, you can experiment them. You can
make holograms by the known optical experiment on holographic films found in market ('How To' on internet).
- The barcode used is encrypted usind DES standard. It is not hard to crack it. Using bruteforce attack on a normal pc needs
about 6 months to find the encryption key. Since it is a symmetric key encryption, you do this process once and then you can
encrypt as many barcodes as you need. You can reduce the time consumed in the attack by using parallel computers or by
applying other attacks like Davie's attack (search the NET).
You must believe that no security feature is impossible to made. I once saw a counterfeited money that solved all the security
features of the US Dollar. Some security features are easy to be solved, but the problem is with us who believe the
propaganda of our goverments.
nbk2000 July 23rd, 2006, 11:48 AM

There's also the issue of time and money invested compared to the gain to be expected.
Investing in all this equipment isn't worth it unless you're going into the business of selling it.
OR
You'll be needing a lot of them and don't want to expose your identities to possible compromise by having bought them from
someone else.
The most valuable ID to fake would be a passport, as that not only establishes your identity, but also gets you out of the
country. Can't do that with just a drivers license. :p
Dank$taVegas July 24th, 2006, 06:48 PM

All security features are solvable.
Well most can be solvable at a cost but how much are you willing to pay. If in the long run the license in question is only good
for a few certain things.
The biggest security feature has to be the "Computer Data Base System" as I have said. With out a Identification Card that
has been entered into this system, you ID card is useless for the majority of things, hence are you willing to invest all that
time and money into creating a fake Beer license? Would this justify the cost and time involved in making this type of limited
ID?
I don't see that it would.
This is just common sense since, most things that require an ID card (Obtaining firearms, getting other ID documentation,
Registration, bank accounts) are all entered into a system that will check you ID card. So if this card is not in the System it is a
fake and will be flagged on the spot!
So this is what people need to be learning how to fake or somehow, get the ID entered into.
The most valuable ID to fake would be a passport, as that not only establishes your identity, but also gets you out of the
country. Can't do that with just a drivers license.
I haven't traveled with my passport since 9/11 but I'm assuming that these would be the hardest & most expensive to fake as
well.
greenboat958 August 3rd, 2006, 05:23 PM

Been waiting several days for my membership access. Finally got it, so here goes...
BiPolar (or anyone else):

Do you by any chance have some more information on where someone could find the "easiest process" to obtain a Delayed
Record of Birth? All that I have been able to come up with are links such as...
http://www.idph.state.il.us/vitalrecords/birth_faq.htm#16
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/getpub.php?pubtype=STAT_CHAP&year=2005&section=144
(about 1/3 the way down, do a search for "Delayed")
I have read that the western states (excluding California & Colorado) are the best places to get one, however it seems that
there is a large amount of information to sift through, much less hard to find. A few questions would be ...
What specific criteria should we look for when selecting a state (other than the obvious)? Where all this information can be
found (if there is a central location at all. Even just phone numbers to call & some ideas on SE skills to be used.)?
If anyone has already done the research, what state(s) are you using now?.
~~~
They are:
1- micro-printing : solve it with Epson Stylus Photo R800.
~~~
This was in regards to some of the best printers to use for counterfeiting. Also, since I have seen several mentions to this
printer while reading, I figured I would share. I found that the R800 are selling for under 200 dollars refurbished, not including
shipping.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?sourceid=mozclient&oe=utf-8&q=Epson+R800&lmode=online&scoring=p&sa=N&start=600
Don't know if anyone would be interested in a refurb., but it may be better than paying close to 500 dollars.
Jacks Complete August 6th, 2006, 09:21 PM

Even now some bars in Alberta/B.C are incorporating a new computer data base system which they scan everyone's
identification card on, this will confirm that the identification card is not a fake or stolen & also logs you in as being present at
the bar the night in question. Due to the recent number of stabbings and shooting at night clubs in the area.An easy way
around this is to use an out-of-country ID. Showing a UK driving license would get you in, but not entered into the system.
Plus, you could print one easily on some green paper, and no-one over there would know that you are supposed to have a
photo part now, too. Even if they did, just say that only the new ones or re-issued ones are photo, if you don't break any laws
you keep your old one, as this is the truth, and they will assume it proves you are no law breaker, too. ;-)
Whoever said about the dollar bills, the North Koreans are making many, many Super-K's, which are so good that they fool
banks. There are some new scanners being developed that can spot them, but they take 6 seconds per bill!
Dank$taVegas August 7th, 2006, 12:48 AM

An easy way around this is to use an out-of-country ID. Showing a UK driving license would get you in, but not entered into the
system. Plus, you could print one easily on some green paper, and no-one over there would know that you are supposed to
have a photo part now
Well Night Clubs here require some form of Picture Identification, they will not let you in with out one. I lost my Drivers
License, and tried to get into a bar with the piece of paper they give you as a temporary license until your card arrives in the
mail which has no picture, and they would not accept it, I had to go home and get my passport in order to get in. Although if
they think your from out of the Country they might bend the rules and let you in, but still if you have traveled here from out of
the Country, you must have a passport which contains a Picture so they will more than likely ask you to get it and return.
This might work, in small pubs & restaurants that sell liquor where they don't get as much business/customers, and don't have
frequent visits from the police checking for minors, but they are still required to see Picture Identification. They do tend to be
a little more slack/lenient when it comes to Identification so you might be able to get away with it at one of these type of
places.
azorbix August 11th, 2006, 02:42 PM

Go and get the pic of the standard license for your state ( Anonym zur URL (http://anonym.to/?http://www.symetrix.net/
gallery/BarBook) )
+++++
The rest of your post would have been cause for banning if not for the saving grace of having contributed something useful.
Any further failures to use proper english grammar will result in your being banned.
NBK
azorbix August 13th, 2006, 06:42 PM

I should stab you in the face with a soldering iron. For changing my god-like words!
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6642/burnoy5.jpg
Who the fuck are you editing my post.....And thinking your offered words are better than mine. You have no made a credible
fake id.....no I think not.
Fuck you. Die. Bastard. You think you're so cool, hm? Asshole. And if I ever see your fucking face around,
In Europe or Italy, Well I'll -- That time I'm gonna kick your ass.
Fuck you. Fucking Americans, Yankee. You're gonna die outta cancer, I promise.
+++++++++++
This is so funny I had to let it through. :D
NBK
festergrump August 14th, 2006, 08:17 AM

It is funny... :) Thanks for that, NBK. What's less funny, though, is the entire quote below is word for word spoken lyric from a
song on Tool's album entitled nima... forgot the name of the track, though. Great album, good taste in music, poor choice in
who to fuck with...
If it wasn't a quote it'd be funnier still. Audacity AND imagination, now that'd be fucking hilarious! :p
Fuck you. Die. Bastard. You think you're so cool, hm? Asshole. And if I ever see your fucking face around,
In Europe or Italy, Well I'll -- That time I'm gonna kick your ass.
Fuck you. Fucking Americans, Yankee. You're gonna die outta cancer, I promise.
Dank$taVegas August 14th, 2006, 11:58 AM

While he dose have some internet balls (which means nothing) he's not very smart.
Go and get the pic of the standard license for your state ( [Link only for Registered Members] )
Would someone who is able to see this link PM it to me, or NBK would you be able to repost the link if it's not too much
trouble.:D
**Edit**
Thank you Random136 for PM'ing me the link. I'll try to post it again here, if it dosen't show up, and others who would like to
view this page "Bar Book" feel free to PM me & I'll forward the link your way.
http://www.symetrix.net/gallery/BarBook
nbk2000 August 14th, 2006, 03:17 PM

The Tool song is Message to Harry Manback.
If it had been more coherent, I might have suspected copy-pasta, but it was incoherent enough to be the rantings of a k3wL,
so I dismissed it outta hand. :o
Be sure to grab all of the highest-res pictures from there and up them to rapidshare before the pissy punk either:
A)deletes them
OR
B)Rats 'em out
Whats ironic is that the idiot wasn't banned for an otherwise bannable lack of grammar, because he contributed something I
was planning on doing myself, thus saving me a lot of time, but because he couldn't accept a mild correction with dignity,
instead lashing out like a petulant child. :p
Dank$taVegas August 14th, 2006, 03:44 PM

Be sure to grab all of the highest-res pictures from there and up them to rapidshare before the pissy punk either
I have already grabbed all the pictures. The one who sent me the link is in the process of PDF'ing all the pictures into a PDF,
he says he will upload it to rapid share when he is finished.
If he dosen't produce it in a day or so I'll PDF the pics I have and upload it to Rapid Share. ;)
Whats ironic is that the idiot wasn't banned for an otherwise bannable lack of grammar
Fools like that just don't know what they are missing here. It is truly a shame, for they will never have another chance to enjoy
the wonderful forums we have here. :rolleyes:
random136 August 14th, 2006, 09:59 PM

Greetings all,
Let me begin by saying that I have the utmost respect for this community and the effort all of the active members have put
into making this a haven for all who wish to participate in the free exchange of knowledge, unhindered by censorship and un-
intimidated by an ever growing list of irrational laws and regulations. Having said this, I feel that I have taken much from this
community and that it is my duty to begin returning the favor whenever I am in a position to do so.
Introductions aside, I would like to offer to the community the pdf format of the 2002 version of the ID Checking Guide-
Unite d States and Canada Version , mistakenly refe rred to b y our confused friend as the Bar Book . Sorry about the size, but
I tried to keep as much of the detail as possible form the original pictures. The link can be found bellow:
http://rapidshare.de/files/29430125/ID_Checking_Guide_2002-_United_States_and_Canada_Version-
_by_RANDOM136_.pdf.html
A few words about this work: In my opinion, this book is an invaluable reference resource, in that it highlights many of the
security features present on various identification cards as well as license plates. However, due to the sheer lack of quality
present in the images (along with the intentional distortion of some images) it is doubtful that this book can be used as the
only resource in the creation of false identification documents. It should, therefore, be used by the forger in question in
conjunction with real samples of the identification being falsified in order to achieve the best results.
Additiona lly, the bo ok is slightly expired, being about 3 ye ars older the n its s u g g e s t e d best before date . However, one must
keep in mind that most identification cards require renewal at much longer intervals then three years, and having an older
document is completely plausible.
I have already grabbed all the pictures. The one who sent me the link is in the process of PDF'ing all the pictures into a PDF,
he says he will upload it to rapid share when he is finished.
I have chosen to post this download in this thread instead of your suggested thread so as to preserve the continuity of the
dialogue for short term archiving purposes. If you could be so kind as to edit one of your last list posts on the Rapidshare
Links thread an d pig gyback this download on it would be great, as I am sure we can all do with one less single downloa d
post.
Whats ironic is that the idiot wasn't banned for an otherwise bannable lack of grammar, because he contributed something I
was planning on doing myself, thus saving me a lot of time, but because he couldn't accept a mild correction with dignity,
instead lashing out like a petulant child. :p
While it is irrelevant at this point, it is also amusing to note that by following the link the jackass provided us with we were
directed to a subfolder of his p rivate photo gallery. With the exception of his Bar Book gallery, virtually all his other galle ries
contained a plethora of pictures of himself, his home, his car and all the places he had visited in the recent past. Not only
does this qualify as the banable offence of showing your face on camera, but it also proves to show exactly how stupid he
actually was. :rolleyes:
c.Tech August 15th, 2006, 03:23 AM

Fools like that just don't know what they are missing here. It is truly a shame, for they will never have another chance to enjoy
the wonderful forums we have here. :rolleyes:
Well they could but its unlikely that unintelligent people such as themselves would think of this.
It is the cause of a loophole in IP banning. Through command prompt they could change their IP address and make another
user, some providers automatically change it when the internet is turned off then on again.
nbk2000 August 15th, 2006, 07:27 AM

We rarely IP ban because the list of banned IP's grew to be so big (thanks to the never-ending low-tide scum of k3wLs) that
good members were being blocked from accessing the site.
So we now reserve the IP ban for the TRULY moronic. :)
I would assume the picture gallery to be owned by the fellow who posted the original link to it, but it could be that the person
whos gallery it is doesn't know that it had been linked to here.
But either way, the idiot was banned, and will continue to be banned (no matter what name he uses) because he'll always be
k3wL. :)
Dank$taVegas August 15th, 2006, 01:30 PM

Additionally, the book is slightly expired, being about 3 years older then its suggested best before date
Most of the Canadian identification cards I am familiar with have changed in 2003. But If you got your license in 2002 or
renewed it, you will still have the current license in the book. Example: Alberta & B.C licenses are good for 5 years, so if you
got your license in 2002 or renewed it, you license is still good until 2007 of your birthday so you will have the one provided in
the book.
I can't speak for the U.S or other identification cards provided in the book, since I have no knowledge about them, and if
some are still current or not. But all the information is provided in the book.
All the license plates for Canada are still the same as well, they haven't changes in many years, with the exception of a few
places.
On another note, this is the exact book that bars, liquor stores & Restaurants (who serve liquor) have and use. When I get
back from my tour in the bush (work), I will work on scanning a current version of this book, thanks to my girl who saw me
reading the book and offered to borrow a current version of this book for me for a few days from work.
random136 August 15th, 2006, 04:55 PM

Most of the Canadian identification cards I am familiar with have changed in 2003. But If you got your license in 2002 or
renewed it, you will still have the current license in the book.
While I cannot speak for other Canadian provinces or states I can confidently say that the Ontario driver's licenses used today
are identical to the ones in the book. Before we had this single card format available Ontario driver's licenses used to be a two
card deal, where one card contained the photo ID and the other card contained information. Obviously, with the increased use
of personal computers in the 90s these cards became easier to fake and had to be replaced.
The current cards have a fairly simple template that can be easily duplicated; however, they do have some serious security
features that not just anyone is able to clone. The major security features visible on the card are: the hologram of a simple
illustration of the provincial flower, the barcode, the magnetic strip, and the use of a simple but effective code issued with each
card (explained in the book). Considering all these security features along with the fact that the card is plastic (as opposed to
laminated paper) and the large cost involved in changing, I doubt that this format will change anytime soon.
The fact that these cards have a magnetic strip have led to another complication for those intending to use this card as fake
identification. Ontario has legislation limiting the sale of booze to several chains of retail stores (which monopolize on the
retail end of the provincial alcohol industry) the largest is the LCBO (or Liquor Control Board of Ontario) which is a "crown
corporation". These stores, along with many bars, pubs and clubs are now equipped with a new piece of hardware next to their
cash registers which allow for the cashier to determine the validity of one's identification with one simple swipe.
Despite this, the fake identification business is still booming in most large cities with driver's licenses raking up between $60
and $100. The majority of the demand for these cards is by under aged teenagers wishing to meet the age requirements of
certain locales (19 in Ontario, 18 in neighboring Quebec).
Still, many choose to "scratch" their own cards. This process is mostly used for age alterations in order to meet.
The simple process is to first report one's card as lost and receive a replacement (no questions asked) the person in question
first receives a paper temporary license and then a brand new shiny card in the mail. At this point the person has two identical
cards issued by the government. One uses the real card for legitimate work where the card will be checked, such as when one
gets pulled over.
T h e lost card is modified by scratching which lite rally involves using a sharp blade or abrasive material to completely remove
the last d igit of one s b irth year on the card. Then, one makes a digital vers ion of what tha t area would look like with a
different nu mber (using something like Adobe s cloning tool in Adobe Photoshop).
This area is printed out, carefully cut to out to resemble the printed area, and glued in place. Then a extra thick piece of
transparent tape is us ed to laminate the front of the card and produce a smooth feel and ap pearance. The piece of pap er
used needs to be very thin and most regular printer papers can do the job. As primitive as this idea sounds, I have seen it
work for others on many occasions. The same thing can be done with Ontario Health Cards (not pictured in the book) which
have an identical general template.
Ironically, one of the easiest pieces of identification to forge still remains the one that carries the stiffest penalties for doing
so. Canadian citizenship cards (also not pictured in the book) are in circulation in two different formats at the moment. Both of
which have similar security features, the newer version obviously being the easier one to forge.
These cards consist of a piece of paper the size of the average card with a template printed on, along with the personal
information, by a machine of similar quality to an average laser printer. Atop this paper, in a specific area, a picture is collated
on (on newer cards this picture is printed directly on the paper). This picture can be obtained in the same fashion as passport
photos from a local photographer.
The entire card is laminated in a simple plastic pouch (the newer cards have the name of the card holder and their unique
number engraved in the lamination as well (think visa card numbers, but transparent)).
Because, with the use of a laser printer, good scanner, and good imaging software this card serves as no challenge to
duplicate, o ne can use it for more then ju st boo ze, in other words one can create a bran d new identity for o ne s self (or at the
very least use it to rent out mailboxes, etc.). These cards can be sold for $40 to $60 dollars to those same under aged
teenagers.
To put into perspective, the maximum penalty for forgery in Canada IIRC is 10 years in jail.
anonymous411 August 22nd, 2006, 10:24 PM

Why go to the trouble to to manufacture a fake ID when you could simply fake the documents and addresses needed to
procure a real one? Solid gold.
How hard can it be to cook up a convincing birth certificate, social security card, utility bill, mail drop, etc. compared with trying
to make an actual driver's license, anyway. I've never done it myself, but I suppose it might be a good first step to weigh the
penalty for lying on an application vs. penalties for posessing fake state ID. The fact that the latter is just so much cheezier
makes a great case for the former...LOL
Forging company IDs, howver, used to be a cinch with great ripped program floating around the net called "ID Maker Pro". If
you had the PVC blanks, they were flawless.
c.Tech August 23rd, 2006, 09:06 AM

Why go to the trouble to to manufacture a fake ID when you could simply fake the documents and addresses needed to
procure a real one? Solid gold.
Because the risks are so much greater.
You could go through with the trouble of forging the other documents, and risk presenting them to a possible future witness
to make a fake ID which would most likely keep your photograph on records, or find out that the person you are trying to
m a k e t h e n a m e u n d e r does nt exist or isn t the right a ge.
anonymous411 August 23rd, 2006, 11:33 AM

Good points, but I'm not so sure that with thorough research and planning it would be all that much riskier. After all, you only
need to show the easily-faked documents once, but you put your ass on the line every single time you show a fake driver's ID.
Your photographs and prints might be on record somewhere, but if you're going to use that identity exclusively, how much of a
concern is it? On the other hand, if you need it for some short-term "special project", I suppose you'd be better off
manufacturing it and dumping all traces of it as soon as humanly possible.
As always, purpose and intent determines method. What amount of risk does it makes sense to take? If all you're after is a
modicum of privacy/freedom of movement, you could get always get a real ID with your real information in another state
under an disposable address. Nothing criminal there.
festergrump August 23rd, 2006, 01:44 PM

If you are in need of a fake ID for the reason of getting access to something you are not normally allowed access to (ie:
alcohol, bars, businesses with light security) this might work for a time. If, however, it is to fool the piggies and any three
letter agencies, you'd best think again:
A friend of mine was recently hauled down to the county jail and processed under a bullshit misdemeanor charge. As a
convenience store clerk he sold a small glass stem looking thingy to an undercover piggie (probably used to smoke crack or
ice). Whether or not he beats the charge is irrelevant, though, let me explain why...
While he was at the jail (along with the owner of the store who was not present when the sale transpired) and made to wait
patiently in a holding cell, they removed him alone several times, as they did everyone else within the holding cell. The usual
delousing process, the fingerprinting, the interegations, ect. continued for some hours, but THEN... then they took three very
close photographs of his face from different angles with a very specialized camera. It was facial recognition photography.
So now, regardless of his innocence or guilt of the initial charges, they have scans of his facial structure along with his
fingerprints to add to the national database. This was but one month ago, but this is your future.
Add to this the cameras on every street corner that the UK has (soon for us in the USA), and my friends, we are ALL under a
microscope for the rest of all time.
Get a mask instead of a fake ID, always wear a 'hoodie' and avoid the fingers (er, um...police) whenever you can from now
on.
Dank$taVegas August 23rd, 2006, 02:36 PM

Before we had this single card format available Ontario driver's licenses used to be a two card deal,
It is the same one card design here in my province as well since we switched from the 2 card deal, but the template has
changed for us and we now have new security features on the cards produced after 2002 (Alberta & BC)
national database
Every thing seems to lead it's way back to the data base, with out a way of getting past this, anything one makes is fairly
useless with minor exceptions. With once very useful case listed below in this post I have run into.
Making a fake Birth Certificate or Social Insurance Card is just that, its FAKE. You will not be able to use these fakes to obtain
a new Identification Card of any kind from a registry, since it is not entered into the data base system.
But on another note, Last week I came across an interesting idea. While I was searching through the local "Bargain Finder" a
news paper that sells used goods. I happened to take a look through the Firearms section and came across a .22 Survival rifle
I have been looking for. Since I have never bought any firearms from a used private sale (Except family) I thought I would
have to go through a 3-4 week waiting period before I was able to get the gun. But this is not the case, when selling a PAL
licensed gun (at least in Alberta, and it may vary through out Canada depending on what province you live in, and I'm unsure
of other countries.). All one needs is to produce a Picture Identification Card , your PAL License & the proper firearm transfer
papers. The fellow I bought the gun off of just glanced at my cards & papers, copied the license #'s and we both signed the
transfer papers and had his wife as a witness sign. Then we exchanged money & goods and I was on my way with the gun in a
matter of a few minutes.
If you were to have a fake Picture Identification Card & were able to produce a fake PAL license (which compared to faking a
DL or other type of Picture Identification Card would be fairly simple to make); one could obtain used guns through private
sales with little risk of getting caught. By the time the previous owner has sent in the transfer forums you would be long gone.
;)
This will only work for PAL registered guns, since they are more strict on the private sales of Restricted firearms.:(
anonymous411 August 23rd, 2006, 07:32 PM

"Making a fake Birth Certificate or Social Insurance Card is just that, its FAKE. You will not be able to use these fakes to obtain
a new Identification Card of any kind from a registry, since it is not entered into the data base system"
Actually, if you're basing your documents on pre-existing real numbers (and are in a state where the DMV lets you have your
license on the spot--I know of at least one), I'm not seeing a problem in getting out the door with it. It would probably be
easier with access to Accurint or a big database like that to do a competent job of it, but it could be done.
gamicalguy September 12th, 2006, 12:32 AM

Wow, the 2002 barbook is outdated. I have the 2005 barbook, should this be posted? I'm searching for a "template dvd" if
anyone is familar with this and has it, please pm me!
++
If you have an updated version, then of course you should upload it. :) NBK
greenboat958 September 14th, 2006, 11:48 AM

Hey all,
Been a while. I found access to an Alps 5000. Anyone want to give me a few pointers on how to use it to make "holographic
overlays"? I read from earlier in this post that you simply
By Ncxvi (Ncxvi) on Friday, October 8, 1999 - 07:25 am:
To print holos on the ALPS: use the spot color option, and set the opacity at a low level. - ncXVI
But I am still unclear as to how to make the printer do multiple overlays.
Also, black cartrige does not work as of now, but I am assuming that should not be a problem for printing in Gold Foil/Metallic
Gold.
greenboat958 October 1st, 2006, 06:36 PM
Ok, quick question all? Where can I find more places regarding fake IDs. Preferably holograms and the Alps 5000, but any
site will do. I have looked through all of the links that come from this post and I have not been able to find any that are
actually still running or have any usefull information. My problem stems from the fact that I am unable to create enough of a
"shine" on top after I have put down the Pearl Ex. At this moment, I am trying the following methods...
Alps 5000 & printing photo finish over actual Pearl Ex.
Alps 5000 & using low percentage opacity with Metallic Gold (can't stop it from pixelating).
Alps 5000 & mixture of golden acrylics (see below) w/ photo finish to seal paint to butterfly poutch (have not tried yet, but
keeping my fingers crossed).
I have also tried buying interference gold and iridescent pearl using "golden acrylics" (to specifically add the shine).
I have used both the heavy body

http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/heavybody/index.php
'www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/heavybody/index.php'
as well as the fluid type

http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/fluid/index.php
'www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/fluid/index.php'
But I am unable to recreate that bright shine and gloss (from what I understand, like iridecent Pearls or 'depth').
Any help would be appreciated.
greenboat
PS: Any questions, please ask. Also, while I do think I could pass this off as simply "my card fell in some paint thinner" and
get by, I would prefer something next to perfect. Trades from different states (due to unfamiliarity) also welcome. Obviously
what you do with it is your own, but I wanted to give back a little from what I have learned here. I would assume that anyone
would be using it to remain anonymous with your purchases.
PPS: Templates from other states welcome as well. I have a Florida Photoshop file custom made. Also post if interested or E-
mail me.
popeonarope October 28th, 2006, 12:40 AM

Greenboat, are you using the metallic gold cartridge or the gold foil cartridge? I think the gold foil is supposed to be better.
Another idea is to print onto the pouch/overlay and then put a thin coating on the back of the hologram (a reflective backing is
supposed to help in this way).
Also, what have you all found regarding the sublimation mode on the MD-5000 (or other ALPS printers)?
And any luck with holograms not being too opaque or so that you can't see them when looking straight on?
Bugger October 30th, 2006, 06:44 PM

Random136 said (15 August 2006):
Introductions aside, I would like to offer to the community the pdf format of the 2002 version of the ID Checking Guide-
United States and Canada version, mistakenly referred to by our confused friend as the Bar Book. Sorry about the size, but I
tried to keep as much of the detail as possible form the original pictures. The link can be found below:
'http://rapidshare.de/files/29430125/ID_Checking_Guide_2002-_United_States_and_Canada_Version-
_by_RANDOM136_.pdf.html'
This file has been deleted for inactivity - someone please re-upload it.
random136 October 31st, 2006, 01:09 AM

Bugger, please check the 'Lots of RapidShare Links' thread for your requested literature.
ShadowKnows November 7th, 2006, 04:10 AM

Hey everyone,
I've been reading the forum for a while now and hope I can give something back. One fertile niche for document falsification is
stickers and permits that are affixed to IDs. One college I'm familiar with sells stickers that students put on the backs of their
student ID cards; these stickers act as universal passes for all public transportation in a wide area around the school. These
stickers are rectangular with gold foil lettering on glossy colored paper, and each semester new stickers are issued in a
different color.
Students aren't supposed to use old passes, but according to SWIM, bus drivers often overlook the use of stickers from past
semesters. With such a level of inattentiveness among public transport personnel, it would be easy to set up a counterfeit
sticker printing operation, and since the stickers are much less expensive than normal transportation passes the printer could
make a lot of money.
That's one example of an expensive pass that doesn't use sophisticated printing technology. If you sniff around your city you
can find lots of things--season tickets, parking passes, etc.--that are easy to copy but cost a chunk of cash. College campuses
are really the best place for any aspiring document forger to set up shop, since there are lots of gullible kids with money to
burn. They can serve as customers or as marks. They can also hook you up with all kinds of tech toys and printing equipment
to further your business.
random136 November 7th, 2006, 03:27 PM

Indeed, ShadowKnows, public transit has long been the target of forgery for many, from petty crooks to seasoned criminals.
I have seen several rings in my city get taken down by cops for forging bus tickets (amusingly the tickets remained
unchanged, even after the arrests and are still just as easy to forge).
Then there was the case of the men working both in Canada and the United States punching out subway tokens on a home
made machine. This one actually did cause the subway system to change their tokens, but only after suffering millions of
dollars in losses, and being left with the dilemma of never being able to differentiate the fake tokens from the real.
Even Kevin Mitnick, one of the great social engineers of our time, describes in his book, The Art of Deception, how at a very
y o u n g a g e h e l e a rned to manipulate h is local bus company s ticket system (which used pu nch cards I b elieve) so that he
could travel for free all over town. However, he has made many more important accomplishments in his life, and his work with
fake identifications does illustrate some prime examples of what one should and should not do. You may take a look at his
b o o k if you like; you will find it in the Lots of Rap idShare Links thread sho rtly.
Precedents aside, the one true point I would like to make is that the smart bird does not fowl its own nest. If everyone here
truly intends to make fake identifications then they must need them for a reason, and that reason is anonymity (or underage
drinking, but who am I to judge?)
Simply having a fake identification, or indeed a complete set of fake identifications, will do you no good when the world as
we know it gets turned upside down by big brother. It has already begun, we have cameras on every corner and RFID is
being implemented more and more (perhaps more then we know). Our shiny new cars and cell phones will betray our
location to the peop le with the right keys, u sing their OnStar sa fety fe ature, and their child tracking GPS 'option', respe ctively.
Airports, train stations, and even subway stations, have become the interrogation rooms of the future, where big brother can
scrutinize over every detail and every aspect of every individual entering or leaving, should big brother choose to do so.
Indeed, small scale public transportation has become a relic of a past age. If one pays the slightly more costly cash fee,
boards a bus at a remote station, and stays away from major or terminal stations, one can, in effect travel anonymously,
more so, then even by foot. There are no cameras to film you, no identification to show, no metal detectors and no scrutiny.
However, when a stabbing occurred on a bus in my city and the culprit could not be caught or identified (for the reasons
outlined above), discussio ns began on imple menting a new system, involvin g camera s n ear the front entrance and
magnetic swipe cards (instead of tickets) to replace the old system. Case in point, do not take the few things we still have for
granted, and do not try to rip them off (no matter how simple it might be).
Jeebo November 29th, 2006, 09:19 PM

Does anyone have state holograms or an efficient way to scan them into the computer? I have tried scanning the holograms in
on a couple of IDs and the scanner has a very difficult time picking up the outline of the hologram. Any tips?
Cobalt.45 December 1st, 2006, 12:39 PM

Case in point, do not take the few things we still have for granted, and do not try to rip them off (no matter how simple it
might be).
Human nature being what it is, you can bet that any and all systems will be under attack by those with the desire to match wits
with the designers/protectors of said systems.
Just as no system is tamper-proof, neither is any tampering undetectable.
But the challenge will always beckon...
steelth December 20th, 2006, 04:45 PM

my only question is how do you make it scannable? Is there a way without paying 500+ for a magnetic strip reader/writer?
DarkSupreme January 7th, 2007, 02:57 PM

Magnetic strip readers/writers are available used from eBay or other sources for around 50EUR. Its recommended not to buy a
cheap model, because they often lack features necessary for proper creation/copying of pseudo-official magnet strips...
wailua1221 February 3rd, 2007, 09:30 PM

I have noticed that these replies have become relatively dormant.
I am a newbie and would like to give back some of my knowledge regardless of how trivial it may be. If you are, looking to
get a quick face produced and possess no Teslin, Laminator or anything for that matter to make a fake ID besides a scanner,
printer, Photoshop, and Photo paper here's a quick suggestion.
Scan yourself in Photoshop change your birth date and place the photo paper with the 21+ template over your original license.
Now this is by no means a money making production method. And it has countless obvious flaws, such as not scanning, and
greatly lacks authenticity. But if you know a simple place where all they do is quickly check your birth date I strongly suggest
this method.
steelth February 20th, 2007, 12:52 PM

Magnetic strip readers/writers are available used from eBay or other sources for around 50EUR. Its recommended not to buy a
cheap model, because they often lack features necessary for proper creation/copying of pseudo-official magnet strips...
I've only seen ONLY readers for that price. The writers seem to go for alot more.
mr_gone March 9th, 2007, 05:10 PM

If going for a mag reader/writer I'll suggest the MSR206 (you'll find variations in that model# eg: MSRW206). They just under
U$400 and work great. They're RS232 devices that may ship with a USB-serial adapter. But, IMPE, usb comms suck (sporadic
reads and writes). Stick with serial. The MSR206 will ship with an app that allows raw reads of data, along wqith AAMVA and old
CA DMV formatted reads (oh, also supports ISO standard formatted tracks). For, er, other uses, a highly recommended
magstrip app is Exeba Comm, Just my 2c
kingtaboo March 9th, 2007, 08:03 PM

hey if anyone has the drivers license guide/bar book 2005+ can they please post it? i have some photoshop quality templates
for trade or something.
nbk2000 March 9th, 2007, 09:41 PM

I'll trade you a 3rd-grade grammar primer for your templates. :)
wst50 March 17th, 2007, 03:08 PM

Slight snag with scanning for ID's. Scanners can recognize the patterns commonly used in money and official documents such
as passports/ID's etc, and they scramble it a bit. Prove it to yourself- try scanning a $5/5 or 5 Euro note (not got the Euro
symbol on my keyboard), or even photocopy it. It won't work. And there is that printer pattern involved, so they have to look
very briefly at it (a standard check, nothing with a magnifying glass or microscope.) If they get a microscope out, run quickly,
you're busted. (Change into a disguise in the toilets and escape subtly)
wailua1221 March 19th, 2007, 09:29 PM

Kingtaboo,
Although I personally don't own the guide book I can direct you to where you can get it. But out of curiousity what templates
do you possess?
meestaeimaj March 24th, 2007, 09:20 AM

I've heard of methods used by people to recreate those holo things on various forms of ID where there is only one colour, but
looking at a US DL of a friends (a Florida one) the holo marking on it appears to be 2-3 colours. Does anyone know how this
could hypothetically be achieved ? This stuff is really interesting by the way - great thread.
mc_nik April 12th, 2007, 10:47 PM

I believe it's quite similar. I've never tried multi-colour holograms myself because we only have silver holos and a UV print on
our licences...well those who are old enough to drive anyway, however from what I've heard you just mix the dominant colours
of the hologram of stuff called Pearl Ex, which works quite well for single coloured holos anway. [Grammar? unsure of previous
sentence.] There's quite a lot of results to be found on google. You'll most likely need a screen stencil kit as well, Photo EZ is
a good one.
On a side note, anyone who knows of the UK driving licence, particularly the DVLNI one, is the UV image of the Royal Crown in
any particular colour? Willing to swap high quality, built from scratch templates for more info.
Hope that helps and thanks for any help that may come my way.
kizm0 November 13th, 2007, 11:26 PM

I work at a local bar and we're upgrading our security. I need to know what thickness the IL id is to compare it with
others..unfortunately I have no access to IL id because I am in a different state but we have recently had more people coming
in with IL ids and its suspicious.
rar January 18th, 2008, 01:08 PM

I first was nt going to p ost this be ca use it's just a simple fa ke used to get beer etc. But then I thought that that would be of
more use to most people then advanced forgeries which give the impression of being a normal card when in fact they lack
what makes a real ID card today namely a spot in the registries which are used to verify the cards authenticity.
So here goes. A way of making a fake ID. This card will deceive bouncers, bartenders etc. this card won't pass police, army,
borderguard, or bankers inspections and it won't give you a sirius forgery charge or get you into the black lists off the banks.
You will need:

1 Visa Elektron
1 sheet of photo paper with glue on one side
1 sheet of glossy clear plastik with glue on one side
sandpaper (200grain or finer)
razorblade (stanly, olfa etc.)
scouring cream (do not know the English word for it, stuff for cleaning tiles, sinks. It's about the consistency of ketchup and
has tiny grains in it)
rag
printer editing program
1. Remove dust and dirt by rinsing card in water

2. Scan the card using a high DPI, 1200++
3. Save this as your safety copy
4. Put scouring cream on the rag and rub lightly on the front of the card above the magnet strip until the holograms are gone,
stop and rinse often so you have full control. Be careful it's easy to remove the text on the face as well as the holograms.
5. Rinse the card and scan again. Compare with the first chose the best.
6. Open scan of choice in your editing program. And find a number(s) on the face of the card which have approximately the
same background as the numbers that show your birthdate copy. Copy the number(s) you want to the right places in your
birthdate (you might have to blur the b ackground a bit). Can t find the right number(s) draw something
7. Print the edited card out on to the fotopaper, you might have to try some times in order to get the right tone.
8. Sand down the card until only the background remains make sure you do it in even and smooth movements, the magnet
strip and all personal info will be gone. Do the last bit with wetsanding
9. Rinse, dry and glue the fotopaper to the front, make sure you avoid bubbles and that it's positioned right.
10. Glue the glossy clear plastic over the fotopaper trim away exces paper and plastic
11. Rub a gainst a fairly smooth surfa ce like a table to imitate natural wear. If you didn t do a good job dirty it up a bit.
This will in all likelihood get you past the age limits provided you behave properly, however there is always a risk. I would not
recommend doing this as it will go in your criminal history if your caught.
Now onto something more serious I don't have any experience with it because it's illegal. The easiest way to get proper
f a k e s h a s n t bee n posted here so. If you want to build a fa ke person go to border countrie s (Hungary or Mexico feks.) a nd
by one. By a passport which is registered and proceed. This will get you into allot of trouble with everyone and you should
consider joining the foreign legion instead in order to get a new/another ID.
I pos t this becaus e information is always han dy, but you should think about if it s worth messing up th e rest of you r life just
because you want beer before your 18.
Be smart don t do it cause soon er or later yo u all get caugh t
wolfy9005 February 18th, 2008, 09:20 AM

i was thinkin earlier today, that some places accept photocopies of birth certificates. Couldnt you just scan 1(yours), then
change a few details around(a birth certificate gives 80points of i.d out of 100), then you only need a few more pieces of i.d
with your name and address on it(like mail). Then you could go get a bank card, then you will have 100points of id, then you
could apply for a driver's licence etc with your fake life, and then you can do anything with it(you could even go to those instant
finance places, and get cash out the vanish.
Phanatic April 2nd, 2008, 12:26 AM

Here I think they write your name down when you buy quantities of certain things (like pseudoephedrine) so I imagine a fake
ID could be pretty good for an endeavor like that :P
inkhead April 25th, 2008, 01:37 AM

I'll chime in, I'm new but this is an area, where I have quite a bit of experience.
Most of the stuff especially books are out of date and laughable at best. Not that long ago.. there used to be a forum called
ShadowCrew, which was shut down by the secret service for credit fraud and such. However the forum centered around fake id,
and stealing identities. Knowing the right people would get you templates for states, that would pass with even the police.
Anyway I knew somebody, and was able to get access to all these templates. I've made some for fun.
There is quite a bit involved in a fake ID. If it's credit card plastic, then it's hard without a fargo printer, and the secret service
works with fargo's call center. Holos are a pain in the ass too, and like 99.99% of IDs have UV, which you need to see under a
florescent blacklight. While not important some stores do check this, and you need an alps printer to print this part.
It's time I share some of the wealth of files I have. I'm not using rapidshare, it sucks. If a forum admin wants to provide FTP
or something, and SHARE the links or know an better solution to upload 100mb for each file, I'll share everything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Moderator note:
This forum does not violate the laws of either Canada nor the USA. As you may have noticed - I deleted a line from your post
& encourage you to steer clear of offers that are directly illegal & create a legally complex situation. We are mostly adults on
this forum & the overwhelming majority know what is "over the line" ....Strike One.
If you are interested in FTP access, you need to talk to Tmp, it's his show, efforts, & responsibility. You can contact him by PM.
ChippedHammer April 25th, 2008, 11:28 AM

I don't really have a major need for a fake ID (would enable me to buy supplies from a nice supplier though) but after looking
at this thread surely someone has to be pumping these things out illegally from a backwater country. A quick google search
brings up a few results but most of them seem to be too good to be true (aka scams).
DIY production is useless unless you happen to have all the gear.
iHME April 25th, 2008, 01:39 PM

I second the idea of using fake id's for purchasing items that are logged. Having a fake personality or two is also always a
plus. You know, just to make sure that you get out of country if the shit hits the fan...
billybobobrain May 18th, 2008, 07:14 PM

Wouldnt it be a lot easier to make a convincing copy of a birth certificate, and other documents neccesary to get a real id from
the DMV?
Any comments on the disadvantages?
JohnG May 18th, 2008, 08:53 PM

Years ago I bought an embosser from an office supply store (an independent one, not a big box like Staples or Office Max).
It had a fake name along with "notary public" and a state name. Yes, I used it to make fake documents including birth
certificates. It wasn't difficult to get, it did have to be ordered of coarse, it took about a week.
However I do know in some states the RMV/DMV keep a picture of you in their computer system, permanently. My state offers
the option of their not retaining the image, but they 'encourage' you under the veil of 'it will be easier to send you a new one if
you lose yours out of state'. A former girlfriend did lose hers, and on getting a new one they MADE her take a new picture
rather than use the old one. This image retention could turn out to be a real problem if you are trying to assume someone's
identity.
Side note: The illegal activities I did all happened more than 10 years ago; the statute of limitations have long expired,
therefore I feel OK discussing it openly.
lemontree August 30th, 2008, 12:11 AM

One of the advantages of PVC-ID cards lies in removing the plastic lamination. When you remove it (using heat), it usually
comes out with its hologram print on it.
So the best solution for a hologram print on your self made ID is to use an original one. All you need is a real ID to extract
the plastic from it to glue or laminate it to the new one.
Any pickpocket is an ideal source for your "raw-material".
If you are one of those with a need of a new identity all the time then don't glue or laminate the hologram print on your new
ID, but instead stick it using a "labello" lipstick. This gives you the freedom to remove the hologram print any time to use it
again whenever you don't like the details on your ID any more.
---
The major links in thread like the hive and counterfeitlibrary are not working. Does anybody have links to similar sites?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > You asked for it, h ere it is!
Log in
View Full Version : You asked for it, here it is!
megalomania April 15th, 2003, 02:43 AM

S i n c e e v e r y o n e h a d s o m uch fun with the unrestricted section during the m ove I have crea ted this section. The old software
didn 't allow me to configure such a section, but with the new software here you go .
Post what you will, but respect m y few rules. As long as nobody abuses this sectio n i will le t it flourish (or will that be fester?)
Just a rem inder: Posts here do not count to your total. I will not ban anyone for p osting anything here. You m ay m a k e y o u r
own polls. You can delete your posts if you say something stupid (like that will ha ppen...).
stanfield April 15th, 2003, 04:33 AM

W h y d i d y o u a b a n d o n e d t h e C G I f o r u m for a PHP one ? is it easier ?
bye.
irish April 15th, 2003, 05:31 AM

arh ha the lo ng awaited silly section, I think that will be fester but hey it will be fun.
interesting to see how many newbies just post here and how many posts they generally m ake before they start on the real
forum . I do think this section will help improve the rest of the forum .
darkdontay April 15th, 2003, 07:36 AM

I really fear that this section will com e back and blow up in everyones face but until then.........
Hey at least the kewls have a place to shed their skins.
xyz April 15th, 2003, 08:24 AM

J u s t s o l o n g a s n o n - m e m bers never view the dark practices that occur in this section...
Kickass!

Originally posted by xyz
J u s t s o l o n g a s n o n - m e m bers never view the dark practices that occur in this section...
Shhhhhhh. it is a secret..
Oh Lord Megalomania and your Dark Prophet NBK2000.... :p
NERV April 15th, 2003, 04:34 PM

T h i s m a y c a u s e s o m e unwanted things to happ en to the forum, but hey enjoy what you can. Thanks m e g a .
Mr Cool April 15th, 2003, 06:51 PM

I think m y opinion on this section has changed now. I say I "think" it has, because I've fo rgotten what m y opinion used to b e
on the subject.
But The Hive has it's C ouch, a nd their place still functions, so I don't see why our Water Cooler is necessarily a bad thing, as
long as we respect those few little rules and don't forget our true purpose for being here...

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Whata is the Status of NBK's PDF
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View Full Version : Whata is the Status of NBK's PDF

I'm posting this because all te hype is starting to wear off and I'm really starting to wonder about it.
I know he is coming along with it I'm just waiting for some little scrape to be sent out to ease the hunger... I mean I hope he is going to make a silver first..
Any ways so how s she coming along NBK
And wahts does she look like so far... Rough stats?

Is NBK releasing a new pdf? His other one is on the ftp...

He has been making a HUGE DVD for the past long while I was wondering the currnet progress off it, I should have said that rahter instead in the Topic Header..
I have been itching to get a peak at the information stored on it....... NBK has never let me down yet on teach me knew things....So I can only envision what is on the DVD...
Though I would love it if he made it with a Blue Ray disc... :p but I bet a burner if out of his cash abilities. Sony.. Seconded only to the devil.
megalomania April 15th, 2003, 11:33 PM

While not speaking the official word, that being from nbk himself, I believe there will be quite a few years wait on the DVD. Like myself, I think he has found the ol "the more I
do the more I want to do" trap of all great projects. I have been privy to a few sample gems from the PDF, and I must say I am very impressed. Rest assured that the longer
he takes, the more worth it it will be.

HEY!.. thats like holding some heroin right above someones head and telling them they are going to have to wait years "But the fix will be great" :p
Hopefully he will release some samples to the general public or a beta crew for sample testing and feed back......
And as allways I would be willing to buy a Pre from him to help with funding and everything..... Remeber man you can allways come back and make NBK's _____ 2 DVD. I
mean Knock us all down wth a sweet DVD and then take the half of stuff that you never got around to put in the first and blow us away again, after the fanbase and customer
loyalyty you would build fomr the first one, and word of mouth the second should be a smash hit.
Plus if he waits to long the Blue Ray disc burner will be with in price reach and then we will all be screw as it would give him alomst 20 more Gigs of room to and, yep we
would all be old and moldy when he finished a 23gig version of the DVD.
But hey man all jokes aside Godspeed to the DVD project NBK.
nbk2000 April 16th, 2003, 04:48 AM

The last time I compiled the PDF, with ONLY the new content (none of the old file content included), I had about 230 pages. That was also more than a year ago. I've probably
added another hundred pages since then.
As for when...I'm not even going to guess. I know there's going to be a time when I'll have to say enough is enough, and send it out, otherwise it'll never be finished because
I'll always be trying to perfect it. The classic engineers fetish.
As for blue ray, I could fill the disk, but who'd be able to afford buying to buy such a huge DVD from me? :D As it stands now, I've got like 50 CD's full of files, plus two HDD's
full. This is my problem, and a happy one it is to, of having TOO much information. I'm drowning in the shit!
As I randomly poke through any of the tens of thousands of files I've got, I get new ideas for articles, interesting tid-bits to include in existing articles, pictures to illustrate
points, and so on.
Then I've got to edit or create an HTML file, photoshop the pictures, etc...time...lots of it. Then throw in the job, the daily hassles, and my Forum duties (which I'm slacking
on), and it's a miracle I've gotten as far as I have with it.
And I'm not even close to doing the videos. :(
And, unless I win the lottery and don't have to worry about money ever again, I'm not going to be able to do the kind of testing I'd like to be able to do.
See, what I can envision doing using the available technology, and what I can afford to do on peon wages, are worlds apart! I'd LIKE to be able to have professionally
illustrated schematics, with Toastmaster CGI graphics, animated walkthroughs, high-speed/slo-mo video, et al.
But you're getting LEGO-CAD and MS-Paint (;)) instead, oh pooh! :( But it's STILL going to be orders of magnitude better than anything you'll find being offered at ANY price on
the subject matter.
And even though it'll have been a few years in the making, that's just par for the course when you consider how it's ONE person writting a book the size of clancy novel, only
with hundreds of illustrations, also being done by the same ONE person. Oh, and video editor, sound mixer, publisher, printer...:p Get the idea?
And I'd also like to point out that the 2nd ed. is building on 3 years of constant expansion of my knowledge base. The original was hacked out in a few months, using a lot of
(what I now consider) filler that was copied from other sites. It wasn't even originally intended as a stand-alone document, having originally been a website that I made into a
PDF after the punks at 50megs.com 404'd it for being "unsuitable content". :mad:
Also, at that time, I had only had a computer, as well as dial-up access, for a few months, and hadn't even found the Forum yet. I had yet to become proficient in searching
the 'net, and didn't have any knowledge base beyond my folders of clippings and photocopies.
How three years makes the difference!
This version is being made specifically as a PDF document, after having years of practice with PDF authoring, as well as in use of PS for illustrating.
I've had years of watching and discussing the results of hundreds of experiments conducted by Forumites, as well as the Q&A's, ranging from the moronic to the brilliant.
Whereas my first digital KB (Knowledge Base) files were typed up copies of old Paladin Press books, the dreaded "anarchy" type files, and whatever useful tid-bits I'd run
across, my KB now includes information gleamed from such sources as military contractor symposiums, national weapon labs, phone discussions with the people who build and
design weapons, and even high-speed test footage sent to me by a BIG name in the weapons business.
If I'd tried this years ago, I'd have been shot down from the git-go, since I was ignorant compared to what I know today. And you can't talk to people from ****, asking them
for 30mm depleted uranium penetrators, or tritium lamps, or the kind of stuff I'm getting now, if you sound like an idiot who managed to get a hold of their phone number.
You've got to speak the lingo, be confidant in your skills, project an image of being one of their peers, and be able to run a good con. Only then will the spice flow. ;)
Comparing my knowledge of 3 years ago with what I know now, would be like comparing a "styrofoam+gas=C-4" k3wL to...well...me! And in three more years, what I know
now would be equally trivial to what I'll know then. It goes into that whole Tofflerian "Future Shock" concept that knowledge increases exponentially with increases in existing
knowledge. I just want to reach the point of infinite increase, where the base of existing knowledge is such that knowledge increase is a straight line UP!, rather than just a
curve.
But knowledge is useless without the means to use it, and that means money. But I'm working on that. For while I've been getting "samples", I've also been establishing
rapport with the players in the arms biz, with the goal of eventually becoming a Big Boy (as I refer to them), just like James Barrett went from a basement tinkerer to a Big
Boy with his .50 rifles.
One day you may be seeing Trinades listed in Janes Infantry Weapons, or perhaps an ad for one of my products in Aerospace Weekly, though you'll never know it's me.
When that time comes, my days at the Forum will be over, since I'll no longer be able to look to my amatuer past, but must look forward to my professional future...a future
of meetings with 4 star generals to discuss procurement schedules, rubbing elbows with the Sandia boys at an arms conference in Florida, and whatever else Big Boys do. :)
This isn't to say I'll forget my friends (or enemies), just that my active involvement in a "pyromaniac/bomberz" board (as seen from the perspective of the Big Boys) would be
detrimental to my future if discovered, thus too much of a risk to justify continuing with.

When that day comes will you pass on the book to another to work on and finish or just send it out? ....or possibly keep workingon it with your Enhanced Expanded KB?
Energy84 April 16th, 2003, 09:43 PM

Godspeed NBK! And I sincerely hope that one day we will be able to get a whole biography on the Life & Times of NBK2000, (insert real name here).
That would be totally awesome!
nbk2000 April 17th, 2003, 01:28 AM

If I became a Big Boy before the DVD was finished, then it'd just have to be re-written to include all the NEW information I'd have access to. :)
But, regardless, the 2nd ed. would be distributed, either by me or someone else, finished or as-is, if I ever had to stop working on it. Otherwise I'd have wasted years of my
life working on something no-one else would ever have seen, right? ;)
And the only time a "Life and Times" of my life would be available would be after I'd (temporarily) died.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > How is the "Book Club" idea
coming along?
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View Full Version : How is the "Book Club" idea coming along?

It has been a little while since it was discussed last and I was wo ndering whats going on with it.
I w a s h o p i n g t o h a v e b e e n a b l e t o b u y t h e P e r p M a n u a l o n e x p l o s i v e s t h i s m onth , b u t m y b o s s h a s b e e n s o n i c e I a s k e d f o r
m y birthday off and so far has given m e 32 days off and counting.
But I still have som e little bit of m oney I would not m ind getting with some mem bers and getting this thing off the ground.
10x$5 =$50 about one really good book or about a regular book and then the price of shipping and such
hey even it in reverse works

5x$10= fifty... It willn ot take that many to atleast get it off the gorund...
More will likely join when they see that furist can really bear from the ven ture.
Anywas just a thought.
zaibatsu April 15th, 2003, 08:22 AM

How about you edit your post to give som e i n f o o n t h e b o o k ? Y o u m ight have posted it elsewhere, but people could h a v e
forgotten/recently joined and not read it. That way, you'd probably get th e m o s t f e e d b a c k .

W ow I just noticed I buggered up on typing the Header can it be changed by a MOD to read " How..."
http://www.cannonfuse.com/explosives/
"THE PR EPAR ATORY MANUAL OF EXPLO SIVES" By Jared Ledgard

A L A B O R A T O R Y MANU AL
SECOND EDITION (2002)
http://www.uvkchem.com/pic1.jpg
ISBN NO . 0-9727863-0-9
A PARANOID PUBLIC ATIO NS BO O K
"The Preparatory Manual of Explosives is the ultimate guide into the chem ical world of explosives. The book is over 300 pag e s ,
a n d d i s c u s s e s 121 primary and secondary explosives in great detail. The book includes a com p l e t e g u i d e t o t h e p r e p a r a t i o n o f
the explosives, utilizing laboratory techniques and procedures, and every procedure includ es the m aterials, conditions, and
s a f e ty practices used in the preparations. Many of the listings co me with different methods of preparation, and only the best
a n d s a f e s t m ethods of preparation are given. The Preparatory Manual of Explosives is a p rofessionally written laboratory
m anual. To fully teach the reader about the science of explosives, the m anual has been divided into 3 sections. Section 1, is a
tutorial guide discussing basic laboratory techniques and procedures such as filtra tion, extraction, recrystallization, distillations,
and heating and cooling techniques; section 2, is a refe rence gu i d e d i s c u s s i n g t h e r e a g e n t s , i n t e r m e d i a t e s , a n d s o l v e n t s u s e d
in the preparation of explosives; and section 3, being o ver 200 pages, is the m ain section, and deals with the laboratory
preparation of the explosives in great detail. Each section also includes detailed laboratory apparatus illustrations and the like.
Alon g with laboratory procedures for the preparation of explosives, comes detailed laboratory processes for the preparation of
c o r r e s p o n d i n g e x p l o s i v e s c o m p o s i t i o n s u s e d i n c o m m ercial and m ilitary operations. Such exam p l e s a r e : C o m p B , C 4 , P B X ,
ANFO, m ilitary smoke less powders, hig h perform ance ro cket propellants, priming m ixtures, and m uch, much, m o r e . T h e
P r e p a r a t o r y M a n u a l o f E x p l o s i v e s i s a r e m a r k a b l e , a n d o r i g i n a l b o o k o n t h e m agnificent world of explosives sciences. This
book was written specifically for researchers, an d inventors, but is well suitable for anyone with a desire to know."
T h e b o o k h a s b e e n d iuscussed before but here it is for others to look ab out it

A quick note, darkdontay, with this software everyone now has the option to change the title of the thread within 5 m i n u t e s
after posting. One can also make changes within this tim e fram e without an "edited by" tag appearing. I th ink I will change
this to 10 m inutes...

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > nitrated petroleum
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aster April 18th, 2003, 02:50 PM

hello all, can anyone tell me, if i fill my car gas tank with nitrated petrol like nitrated gasoline or nitrated kerosene then will this make me win the race like the motorbikeracer
fill their gas tank with nitromethane? or just make a huge fireball and kaboom when i turn the engine on? thanks a lot:)
rooster April 18th, 2003, 03:15 PM

The best thing nitrated petrol will do to your gas tank is destroy it, since its a solid most of the times, unless it dissolves in the petrol. Most likely it will blow the whole thing.
But you are welcome to try it:)
mongo blongo April 18th, 2003, 03:21 PM

Well it is an explosive so that would be a very bad idea unless you want the car to explode. There is not much info on this explosive but it can be a solid as well as a liquid. I
don't even know if it is a primary or secondary or even a HE or not. If however it needs to be detonated then it might just burn like NG for example.

I am not so sure using nitrated petroleum would be such a bad idea. Of course it would destroy your engine if you do not make the necessary modifications for significently
higher octane fuels. Small quantities may enhance an engine in the same way as octane booster additives.
I would try this out on an disposable moter like an old lawn mower or weed-wacker before pouring in in your cars gas tank.
Naturally a high explosive may indeed cause extensive destruction inside the cylinder or to the spark plug area where the combustion occures because of too much energy, and
the nitrated petroleum fuel may not vaporize well enough to support combustion, thus clogging the fuel filter or injector.
I would suspect the reason companies don't test nitrated fuels is because of the cost of nitrated petroleum. If they ever tried it there is probably some vague obscure literature
from the fifties out there.
xyz April 18th, 2003, 07:43 PM

Be careful with this, I have read something about racing fuel NM having desensitizers added to it because before they started doing this, it could occasionally DDT (Deflagration
to Detonation Transition) inside the engine.
aster April 19th, 2003, 11:09 AM

i can get technical NM 1 litre at $90, i dont know about the price of NM for motor racing, but it must be cheaper than this technical grade, i think its right this racing NM will be
present with some impurities, and possibly the desensitizer:) i think its right we must added another desensitizer before try to pouring this explosives in our gas tank what
chemicals can act as desensitizer? maybe this is the trade secret:D
knowledgehungry April 19th, 2003, 11:24 AM

1 Liter 90$! Where the fuck did you buy that, you can get it at pyrotek for like 40$ a liter.
aster April 19th, 2003, 11:54 AM

:) thanks, i get this stuff prices from lab and chem suply store, near my reside of course, but i am not buy this yet ;)
kingspaz April 19th, 2003, 07:47 PM

they don't fuel the cars on pure NM do they? i just thought they mixed it with petrol. 50/50 maybe?
the petrol should desensitise it enough and also help to limit burn speed so as not to destroy the engine as quickly.
anyway, this is in the HE section so we should be talking about nitrated petrol and its use as an explosive.
Anthony April 19th, 2003, 07:56 PM

IIRC they do use straight NM in top fuel dragsters.
First of all, why nitrated petroleum? I doubt it'll have a much greater energy density than NM, plus the problem of it not being liquid.
The question is, will it burn and release more energy than regular petrol?
It's HE properties are useless, since not only will detonation destroy the engine, it's not good for propulsion.
As kingspaz pointed out, this probably shouldn't be in HE, so it'll find a new home in water cooler :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Melted AP Detonators
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static_firefly April 21st, 2003, 10:26 AM

Hey
T h e o t h e r d a y i was m elting AP (very sm all am ounts) and letting it recrystalise at maxium density before lighting it to a nice
woom pf. It got me thinking a little about how there was a thread about m elting the AP with hot water before insertin g it into the
charge so its VOD is at its highest. But this is dangerous because of cracking and stuff. So i pondered for a while an d t h o u g h
a b o u t a n o r m al cap with fluffy AP (so its m ore shock resistant) thats sorrounded with som e sort of LE. You insert the thing in to
the charge and when the fuse touches the LE it burns around the cap first (which is metal so it doesnt burn through) and melts
the AP then burns inside and sets of the molten AP. Even if the LE is hot enough to set the AP off while its burning around it
wouldnt matter since it would have melted it first anyway. This results in a "safer" more powerful detonator.
Iv told this to a few people an d they said the results wouldnt be worth the trouble and the result not really noticable. Thats why
i posted it in here and well...im kinda scared to post in the other fourm s .
Anthony April 21st, 2003, 01:18 PM

I'm inclined to agree with what other people have said to you - it seem s a lot of effort for question able gain. W o u l d g o o
pressing not achieve a sim ilar density to molten AP?
Kriegsminister April 21st, 2003, 05:49 PM

I don't think that such a detonator design is in any way better than the "traditional design".
T h e " h e a t i n g charge" would ra ise the tem perature m uch too quickly. I gu ess that the melting point and the deflagration point
of AP lie close together, which requires slow and careful heating to m elt it. Some AP might m elt but in a m atter of m illiseconds
it will go boom anyway. Most of the AP will still be in solid form when it explodes and thus not rise the VoD significantly. The
fuse or bridgewire in standard detonators does more or less the same. Som e of the AP su rrounding the fuse or wire will also
m elt before it explode.
Besides the heating charge would also make the detonator a little larger.
I'd still go with the standard m ethod of pressing. It's easier, more reliable and not of m uch diffrence in strength.
kingspaz April 21st, 2003, 06:39 PM

also there is then a significant gap between the AP and secondary charge. thus rendering the detonator m uch less effective.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Distilling Ethanol
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Anthony April 22nd, 2003, 12:15 PM

I haven't started this thread in the che mistry section because it's not really about producing ethanol, but m ore about m e b e i n g
a cheap-skate.
I've long decreed that Her Majesty's Customs and Excise are taking the piss concerning fu el prices. A gallon of petrol costs a
little under 4 and will propel m e b e t w e e n 3 0 a n d 3 5 m i l e s .
Since I have a little tim e now and a little spare cash in the near future, as part of setting up a decent lab, I'm going to include
m y latest hair-brained idea about cheap travel.
The idea being to run the car on ethanol :)
O f t h e v a r i o u s c h e a p f u e l s t h a t a c a r c a n b e r u n o n , I M O e t h a n o l l o o k s t o b e t h e b e s t / s i m plest.
The plan is to start out with 25% ethanol 75% petrol and 50/50 to test it. Increasing to reap the savings. My goal is 90%
ethanol. However, as the etha n o l i n c r e a s e s , I ' l l n e e d t o m a k e a f e w a d j u s t m e n t s t o t h e e n g i n e , s u ch as adjusting the timing,
adju sting the fuel mixture with the EC U and enlarging the fuel in jectors.
Etha nol is a great fue l :) It ha s a high octane rating, allowing a typical petrol engine to run at 22* BTDC, to lerates high
compression ratio (upto 15:1) burns cleaner than petrol and runs at a richer mixrure than petrol, m e a n i n g m ore power - hence
the need for larger injectors.
On top of all that, the cost will be a catering sized drum of sugar, a bunco f yeast, tap water and som e electricty.
I intend to build a fra ctional/reflux still and shoot for 90-95% ethanol. The process being as autom a t e d a s I c a n m a k e i t , s o I
can set it going, leave it to do it's thing and a day or se veral later have ~10 gallo n s o f e t h a n o l .
Looking at the different fractions in a typical mash, I was wondering: "W ill it be a waste to use only the ethanol?"
The methanol is a fuel in its own right, but what about the 1 and 2-propanol?
If th ese other alcohols are suitable as fuels, and represent a significant percentage of the output, I don't really wan t to throw
them away. Unless, e ither them selves, or in the other n asties th at will com e off with them will do nasty things to m y car. Such
as corrode the engine, foul oil, dissolve/persih plastic or rubber com ponents or wreck my catalytic converter.
A n y o n e h a v e any idea about that?
My second question is about cooling for the condenser/fractionin g colum n :
The mash will be brewed in a wheelie bin/dustb in/45(55 )gallon drum etc. The plan is to periodically pump it into a smaller
header tank about the still and then gravity feed it into the boiler, contro lled by a float valve.
The cooling will be wa ter recirculated by a pum p. The original intention was to have another drum of water, but this would take
u p p r e c i o u s s p a c e . S o , c a n I n o t u s e t h e m a s h ? I t ' s a l a r g e b o d y o f e s s e ntially cold water and any warm ing it gets will mean
less energy required to heat it up when it eventually works its way into the boiler. Any com m e n t s ?
I'll add an explanatio n about why I don't intend to use pure ethanol as the fuel. Despite having hardened valve seats and the
remaining water in the ethano l acting as a lubricant, I have a niggling fear that I still need som e o f the additives found in
unle aded petrol. Also, the presence of a little p etrol will make th e fuel smell and look like petrol. Plus it will (AFAIK) legally
render the ethanol unfit to drink, thus dodging the tax m an on two accounts (hop efully!). It m ight also help in extreme cold
weather starting, where the lower volativity of ethanol over petrol can mean im pro per vapourisation. Although this shouldn't be
an issue with fuel injection.
C o m m e n t s / s u g g e s t i o ns/questions welcome :)
IPN April 22nd, 2003, 12:54 PM

S o u n d s l i k e s o m ething very interesting indeed!
The distilling is IMO quite a slow process so it may and probably will need some tweaking to get th e ethanol coming with a
decent speed.
Also the ferm entation is thing it self because it will maximally produce alcohol to about 13 -15%
a n d i s a l s o a quite slow process so this will probably stay as an 25% additive to the petrol I think.
But of course if you are being able to m ake it into a very fast process then it will be very good thing.
Arkangel April 22nd, 2003, 01:16 PM

Plus it will (AFAIK) legally render the ethanol unfit to drink, thus dodging the tax m an on two accounts
Not sure about that. Certainly he won't be as in terested in it if you can't drink it, but using any fuel on which road duty has not
been paid is still illegal - same as using red diesel or paraffin.
W hen we ran our Trium p h D o l o m ite on paraffin, we used a m ix of paraffin and acetone to get it running. Once it was warm e d
up it ran fine on the paraffin alone.
zaibatsu April 22nd, 2003, 02:06 PM

I'm on a mailing list that was discussing this subject recently, ho wever I've deleted the em ails since. The m ain thing though is
that there has to be no more than 10% water. Also it said something about using c h a m p a gne yeast - higher % alco hol I
guess. Just a few little 'gem s' (:rolleye s: ) I picked up.
Anthony April 22nd, 2003, 02:41 PM

I m u s t a d m it that I haven't re ally read into the m ash side of the production yet, as it seem e d s o s i m ple. From what I have
read, ferm enttation should take as little as three days, although I certainly haven't verified this.
If fe rm entation takes a while, I can always have two loa ds of m a s h a n d h a v e o n e ferm ent whilst the other is distilling.
I was wondering what the m a x i m um water content tolerable was, thanks zaibatsu :)
For distillation tim e, I've read one account saying to heat up the still and use a reflux ratio of 3:1 and you'll get 250m l/hr of
"pure" ethanol. These instructions accompanied instructions for a still m ade from 2" copper pipe for the colum n.
Another account (specificially for high quality drinking alcohol) stated that the still m ust be allowed to reflux for 20-24hrs and
then drawn o ff very slowly at a reflux rate of 13 -15:1. O bviously this would take a very lon g tim e!
Arkangel, a piece of US literature stated that =>4% petrol in eth a n o l i s l e g a l l y d e n a t u r e d , I a s s u m ed that UK law would be
sim ilar.
Apparently, some petrol comp a n i e s a d d a percentage of ethnol to petrol as a che a p n o n - l e a d o c t a n e b o o s t e r . . .
Felonous Monk April 22nd, 2003, 03:03 PM

A couple thoughts on the distillation of Ethanol, Turbo Y easts can be ordered from com panies such as Gert Strand AB in
s w e d e n , a n d s o m e o t h e r s o v e r the internet. The benefits are reduced brewing tim es typically taking 3-5 days to produce a brew
that can have alcohol of upwards of 20 %, as well generally producing less high alcohols. However for m y m oney Lalvin's EC
1118 gives g ood results and isn't to fu ssy (as m entioned in earlier in this thread it is a cham p a g n e y e a s t ) . O n a n o t h e r n o t e
perhaps a used car radiator cooling the condenser water (or m ash) before it returns to a sm all reservoir prior to being returned
to the condenser. I don't know what tap cost in Britain b u t h e r e i n C a n a d a I h o o k m y c o n d e n s e r t o t h e t a p a n d t h e r e t u r n g o e s
to the drain. In term s of determining a reflux rate this site has some calculator that can help with alot of different aspects of
reflux or fractionating colum n d e s i g n .
J April 22nd, 2003, 05:52 PM

The last tim e I was looking into brewin g m y own booze I found the following sites helpful:
http://www.m oonshine-still.com / p a g e 5 . h t m
http://hom edistiller.o rg/
http://lorien.ncl.ac.uk/m ing/distil/distil0.htm
The law will alm ost ce rtainly m ake running a car on un-taxed alcohol illegal, just as runnin g a d i e s e l e n g i n e o n v e g e t a b l e o i l i s
illegal unless you pay the duty. But since it's a petrol engine, wh o's going to find out? Even if they did stop you for some
m i s d e m eanour, they wouldn't dip the tank! You can't buy 'red petrol', so they have no rea son to suspect.
zaibatsu April 22nd, 2003, 05:56 PM

Y e a h , I r e a d s o m e t h i n g a b o u t t h a t t o o A n t h o n y , t h a t s e e m e d t o confirm 3-4% of petrol to ethanol m akes it disgusting to
drink. But wh at difference that m a k e s i n t h e U K...
DBSP April 23rd, 2003, 04:20 AM

I rem e m b e r e d t h a t I h a d s e e n s o m e t h i n g o n f u e l a l c o h o l o n h o m destille r . o r g a w h i l e a g o , I h a d a l o o k a n d f o u n d t h e p a g e :
http://runnin g_on_alcohol.tripod.com
m ight be useful..
Anthony April 23rd, 2003, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the links everyone :)
I'll look into these special yea s t s , t h e y s o u n d g o o d a s l o n g a s t h e y a r e n ' t t o o e x p e n s i v e .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > sm a l l s o l e n o i d s
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View Full Version : small solenoids
phyrelord April 24th, 2003, 03:34 PM

I was looking for a small solenoid that could be powered by a nine volt battery and could travel about 3/4 of an inch or about
1 5 m m does anyone know where i could get a few of the s e t h a n k s .

Does anyone know how to use punctuation?
m oving to water cooler as it seem s a newbie type post and question.
Coast April 24th, 2003, 06:10 PM

If you plan o n ordering som e, try American Science and Surplus (http://www.sciplus.com ) and go to the Electrical Parts sections.
You'll find a selection of plain, bare, surplus solenoids. If you're more into improvising som e, try looking at the power door
lock assembly of any old car. They use a solenoid that runs off the 12 VDC car battery and could p robably be config ured easily
into something that could work off of your 9 VDC battery. It m ight be a little bigger than what your looking for though. W h o
knows, go ch eck the local Rat Shack.
Zerstoren Sie April 25th, 2003, 11:23 AM

W hat are you plannin g to use it for? Solenoids put out different am ounts of force. Probably your best bet though is salvage,
it's cheap, and you m ight get som e other cool stuff in the process. If you just want any old solenoid, there are many
c o m p a n i e s y o u c a n b u y t h e m from. Try looking here: http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin /category.cgi?
category=575&type=store
frogfot April 25th, 2003, 04:56 PM

"...could travel about 3/4 of an inch ..."
I don't get it, where do it suppose to travel?
W iring your own would be cheaper than bying in electronics shop, though this will be a pain if wire is lesser than 0.5 mm .
Tuatara April 27th, 2003, 06:57 AM

W inding your own is a pain an d the result is generally inferior. Be smart, just go buy som e from the likes of radio-shack, or
Jaycar, or DickSmith, or whoever sells electronics parts in your neck of the woods

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > APAN/puddy
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FireBomb April 25th, 2003, 12:45 AM

W ell i was board toda y and feeling really stupid so i decided to post this here being as i dont have enough psots anywhere
else to post it in the proper section.
OK think about this is isnt a bad idea. It would make fo r a m ore stable APAN m ixture.
W hat you do is sim ple just m ake up a regular batch of AP puddy using Nitrocellulouse and AP and add in a little AN but the
p r o b l e m with it is. I don't know if AN will disolve in Aceto n e o r n o t a n d a t t h e m o m ent I don't have any to test it on. I don't
know where to look to see if AN is soluable in a cetone e ather. As far as I can tell though if this does work it would prove to b e
a much more stable than standard APAN.
It would probably make I nice booster charge for when m ore exotic ones are m ore dificult to obtain or make. Just a thought.
I know this is probably a stupid topic b ut not a bad Idea if it will work. I'm sure several other fourm m e m bers have already
though of this but I h ave as o f yet seen it posted anywhere.
P l e a s e d o n ' t f l a m e m e I know its probably not one of m y better ideas. I dont have a lot o f experience with HE's and I won't be
m essing with them till I have m o r e k n o w l e g e o n t h e m .
OK well i thin k thats it. Any suggestion will be g reatly appreciated.
NeoSanity420 April 25th, 2003, 01:19 AM

I would think AN wouldn't dissolve in Acetone. Remem ber - Like dissolves like (polarity of the molecule).
THErAPIST April 25th, 2003, 02:58 AM

I was somewhat going off of this sam e idea when I decided to m ix m y AN with DBSP laquer. I was left with a gray powder. Now
if yo u w e r e t o m a k e s o m e A N A P a n d t h e n b o n d it together with a large am o u n t o f s o m ewhat goopy AP putty I think you would
be left with a block, o r stick, o r whatever of ANAP that would be fuse sensative. At thew m o m e n t i d o n t h a v e a n y D B S P b e s i d e s
whats already coating m y AN and i don t have any DPPP to test this but it should work. ill try it som e d a y s o o n and then ill post
pictures and such on m y site (im still makin it. if you havent tried this within the next two weeks then find one of m y posts a n d
get m y site addy off of m y info. i shou ld have pics and such up two week s from now at the very m ost)
jfk April 25th, 2003, 05:39 AM

the AN doesnt have to dissolve in the acetone, you've read rat b astards section, right?
you make the putty, and leave it for a week or some time. then you gotta rol it into a ball/what ever shepe your heart desires
you can just add som e powdered AN at this stage i believe, for lack of dbl base powder AT M i cant try this, next week i will
hopefully
FireBomb April 25th, 2003, 02:28 PM

Are you refering to Rats section over on Krim zo n Pyro if you are then yes? If your refering to a section he h a s h e r e t h e n
probably not. I dont recall seeing a section about this here but its been a long time sence i b e e n h e r e . I ' v e o n l y b e e n b a c k
here after about 1yr for a week or so.

"you m ake the putty, and leave it for a week or som e time. then you gotta rol it into a ball/what ever shepe your heart desires
you can just add som e powdered AN"
W atching you trying to roll AN into AP putty that has been left out for a week would be... am using...
Also, you'd n e v e r h a v e e n o u g h N C b i n d i n g t h e A P t o h o l d a n a d d i t i o n a l 9 0% of AN. Better just to m ix it up together in the first

place.
Good job this was posted in the W ater Cooler - it would have gotten locked anywhere else, it's been done before an d is pretty
obvious...

I think it could be done with 50/50 APAN. I know that Noltair has been able to bind APAN with rubber cemen t.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > The Library
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View Full Version : The Library

In the 'people v. the_black_one' thread i heard sometih ng about Mr. black_one trying to g et his post count up so he could view
'The Library'
what is 'The Library' ?
m y first thought was that it wa s the acrhives, but any mem ber can search them, regardless of post count, right?
thanks for your help in advance.

It is the FTP that is hosted by Ctrl_C . It contain s over 10Gb of books, vid eos, etc. about chem istry, E&W , etc. It also contains a
lot of useful software that you would normally have to pay for.

well its what ive been looking for then, better keep m y shirt tuck ed in and not do anything |<3\/\/|_
btw - when can you acess the ftp ?

After you have 50 posts and have proven your worth or som e t h i n g l i k e t h a t , y o u a l s o n e e d t o h a v e s o m ething to contribute
before you are allowe d access.
Once you have the above, there is a form on the main Roguesci page that you fill out to get access.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C hlotate+AP
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Al Nobel April 27th, 2003, 08:16 AM

One thing I generally dont like when using APAN is the fact that AN acts as a weak acid,which sensitises the AP (correct m e if
Im wrong).
So my question is whether KCLO3/NACLO 3 are less acidic then AN or if they react as acid at all.
I want to try a m ix of AP and KCLO3 so it would be interresing to know if anybody has ever tried this m ix.
vulture April 27th, 2003, 10:56 AM

CLO3 - is a very weak base, a s HClO3 is a strong acid.

I know that someone has tried this but I'm not sure who it was. BTW , change the thread title, it looks like it says "C hocolate
and AP".
DaveTheShit April 30th, 2003, 01:38 AM

I thought it was som ething ab out chocolate as well. I know this should be com m o n knowledge, but it would decrease the risk of
accidental detonation if you m ixed the AP and AN onsite, rather than storing it for a long period of time. I probably wouldn't
have posted this if it wasn't th e water cooler anyway.
Al Nobel April 30th, 2003, 09:12 AM

Sorry,but the re is this 720 minutes limit to edit posts.I realized this dumb mistake too late.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Acetylene lighter then air?
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The Crazed April 28th, 2003, 04:24 PM

I was wondering if anyone knew if Acetylene is lighter (less dense) then air... I hade made some and was wondering if it would rise if I put it inside of a balloon to have some
fun.

According to the Merck Index acetylene is slightly less dense than air. 0.90 to air's 1.0
Flake2m April 29th, 2003, 01:24 PM

I had this idea for a charity fair that expolited ethyne's (acetylene) density.
I could my friend oxy set and sell ballons at a charity fair. the contain either O2 or ethyne. You can guess what happens next...
metafractal April 30th, 2003, 08:36 AM

Why not just use H2 (hydrogen gas)? As you probably know, it can be obtained by adding any metal (the more reactive the better) to any acid. Its much lighter than air
(helium baloons used to be hydrogen baloons until a blimp filled with hydrogen exploded igniting all of hindemberg), and violently flammable. While it does not hold as much
energy as acetylene, the molecule is smaller and therefore burns quicker so the energy/time almost evens out. Have a look around, there are plenty of threads about this
around here...
Flake2m April 30th, 2003, 01:09 PM

ethyne is easier to obtain.
Also, alot of people know the hydrogen gas is flammable but as for ethyne; well they'll just have to find out the hard way. :cool:
Tuatara April 30th, 2003, 06:21 PM

I wouldn't say ethyne was easier to obtain!. H2 is most easily made by chucking scrap Al into NaOH soln. I do this all the time for my kids. Watch it though, the rxn is
exothermic so it can run away on you and fill your balloon with boiling caustic foam instead:D

Tuatara, if you bubble the H2 produced into another bottle filled with cold water (and the balloon attached to the top of it), you condense out any steam or froth. Giving a
lighter, fuller, firmer bust, err balloon... ;)
When I did it, it really made a big difference to how well the balloons floated.

I have a hydrogen generator setup that is similar to the one described by Anthony, only I also have a cooling bath to stop the reaction going too quickly. It is an empty chlorine
granule bucket that has a hole cut in the lid for the top of the reaction vessel (2l bottle) to poke out. The hydrogen then goes through a tube where it is bubbled through water
in a second bottle and then enters the balloon.
Flake2m May 1st, 2003, 08:20 AM

I was referring to how esay it is to purchase ethyne gas. Hydrogen is very easy to produce but in the quanties you'd need for a craft fair. A hydrogen generator would not be
enough. Also if you by a tank of ethyne you have a legimate use for it as lots of people like doing metal work. Hydrogen does not have very many household or business uses.
Tuatara May 1st, 2003, 06:36 PM

Taking Mega's density data (thanks), and making the assumption that a ballon weighs 5g it turns out that the balloon needs a volume of 40 litres to achieve neutral buoyancy.
Now thats a pretty big balloon - which barely floats, and has no string!
The balloon weight is a guess - I was going to weigh some but we've run out.
I think this explains why hydrogen and helium make the best 'floaty' balloons.
Edit: More data
Air density (standard) 1.24 kg/m^3

H density 0.0899 kg/m^3
He density 0.179 kg/m^3
and a link Balloon lift calculations (http://www.aucegypt.edu/students/quark/Research/balloon.htm)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Military Grade Napalm
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narf April 28th, 2003, 11:29 PM

D o e s a n y o n e k n o w o r k n o w w h e r e I c a n find th e form ula for n a p a l m tha t the US m ilitary us ed in Vietnam ? I ve s earched all
over the net for years and have not figured out what is in napalm. All I can find is the crappy foam / s o a p a n d g a s f o rm ula.
I ve h e a r d m a ny things like palm o i l a n d b e n z e n e b e i n g i n i t b u t t h a t w a s j u s t from word of m o u t h I h a ve no real proof.
zaibatsu April 29th, 2003, 12:16 AM

arggh you dumb POS, if this had been anywhere else I would ha ve perso nally ma de sure you were banned for life. Been
searching for years eh? Well, you could just have clicked the search button either at the top or bottom of the window and typ e
in Napalm. That brought up plenty of threads regarding the actual com p.
LEARN TO FU CKING SEARCH - if you do things like this in the real sections you would be outta here .
W hy we can't have mandatory banning for people posting without searching I'll never know...
Aaron-V2.0 April 29th, 2003, 02:42 AM

The only info I ever heard on it was 50% Polystyrene 25% Gasoline and 25% Ben z e n e .
zeocrash April 29th, 2003, 01:24 PM

napalm is listed in my chem ical diction ary as a mixture of napthatic and palmic acids used to gelainise petrol
i've heard that acetone also gelatinises petrol, but i'm not sure about whether this change affects the flam ability
the best way to find out is to try it yourself. so go out experim ent and if you find anything useful, post it.
also, rem ember to use the search button next tim e

Gah, even http://www.dictionary.com gives the constitue nts of NAPALM!

Ah yes I expected such a helpful and intelligent response from such a friendly com munity. I am looking for the ratios of the
i n g r e d i e n t s a n d s u c h a n d s o m e good info on it. I have done a search and still found nothing useful....nothing but g u e s s e s o f
what it is. I figured th at some people here would flip out for just about any question but I figured I would give it a try. Thanks
anyhow but still don't have the info I a m looking for. I'll take m y s e a r c h e l s e w h e r e . . . . . f e e l f r e e t o b a n m e b e c a u s e I h a v e n o
real need to com e b a ck...there is no help here. But thank you for those who tried to help m e o u t .
nbk2000 April 30th, 2003, 03:13 AM

P e r h a p s t h e r e a s o n f o r t h e g e neral contempt with which the m e m b e r s h e r e s e e m to hold you in, lies not with any arrogance on
our part, but rather a serious lack of due diligance on your part.
You say you've searched the 'net for "years". I seriously doubt that.
Even if it was true, it's either through a n incredible lack of skill in the use of search engine s (and accompying inability to learn),
or an inability to actually trudge your fat butt down to an honest-to-God physical paper library, that you've failed to find the
composition of modern napalm .
I know you d idn't eve n know that the actual nam e of the modern military thickened gasoline incendiary is "Napalm B".
Perhaps, instead of your <sarcasm>scathing wittism</sarcasm >, you would have been better off reading som e o f t h e a b o v e
posts, one of which gives you the actual compo sition of Napalm B, but which your foolish arrogance in believing that you are
our equal blinded you to.
Since we exe cuted ou r last nanny for h aving do ne such a m isera ble job in raising the Traitor and Madfag, we've no one left to
s p o o n f e e d d r o o l i n g s i m pltons (like yo u) the basics, so I'm afraid you're S.O .L. in that departm ent.
So go sit back in the corner, where all little dunces belong, because you no longer have any place here. The small bus will be
by to pick you up sho rtly and take you to that "special" place that "special" people like you go to. ;) :D
[quote]
W hy we can't have mandatory banning for people posting without searching I'll never know...
[quote]
This is just an experim ent, to show those who thought the old rules were too harsh, just how neccessary the m erciless purging
of m ental un termensch like this fool is to the continued well being of the Forum .
<Pinky>
Naaaarrrrff......Poit!
</Pinky>
:p
zeocrash April 30th, 2003, 12:43 PM

narf why not try out different ratios snd m ixtyre s of ingredients yourself. you cant expect us to do everythin g you require.
s o g et your ingredients, m ix them together. then evaluate its flamability and viscosity, and see if you can get a better m ix
frogfot April 30th, 2003, 02:50 PM

H i s q u e s t i o n s h a v e b e e n a l r e a d y a n s w e r e d , b u t i h a v e t o p o s t m y feelings about his last post too...
narf, you lazy little bastard, now you have even pissed off me!!! Dam mit, one year search?
I tryed to search too, and THE first page i found was the page that had a ll info that
you need.
http://tchester.org/fb/issues/napalm .htm l
Read it through all, theres som e history too.. b ut i bet you wouldnt.. Heres som e cuts
from that page, just to get you interested:
"..."Napalm" is actually now a general term for jellied gasoline..."
"...the Fallbrook napalm is a m ixture of 46 parts polystyrene, 33 parts gasoline a nd 21
parts benzene..."
Page tells also that Fallbrook napalm (Napalm -B, as NBK said) have big addvantages above the original naphthene/palmitate
napalm. And besides, im 100% sure you will never get hold of those two acids... Anyway, ratios of those two acids and gasoline
could be found experimentally,
depending on what consistency you want it to be, its just like cooking. :)
knowledgehungry April 30th, 2003, 04:43 PM

<Pinky>
Naaaarrrrff......Poit!
</Pinky>
So NBK you have watched pinky and th e brain i see. I loved that show, it was a lot sm arter than m ost of the "grownup" shows.
Brain inspires me.

HEY! thanks for this site http://tchester.org/fb/issues/napalm.htm l
That's close to what i've been loooking for. Yes i have been searching the net for years her and there looking for some good
info on ths m ilitarty n a p a l m . no i didn't devote my life to lookign for it but i was wandering if [people here happened to have a
site that was good. And i'm more of the info se eker i don't really m ake much of anything besides a few fireworks and rockets
and blackpowderi've been doign that for about 8 years. I just like to get info and read up on things. Thanks for the info even
though it too k alot of anger to get there :-p an d as far as i know no one is "better" than anyone else. unless u m e a n f o r
k n o w l e d g e o f t h i n g s s u c h a s n a p a l m then in this case that is why i cam e here because i thought th a t s o m e o n e m y l e n d a
h a n d . S e e m s like people here liike to first put others down and then give an answer. you say about how m uch m y q uestion
wasted ur tim e but u can save tim e by not resp onding with a bunch of cray com ents. But thanks for the info....i'll be on my way
now. Have a great day!

http://www.napalm.net :p :rolleyes: ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > hydrogen peroxide
concentration
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View Full Version : hydrogen peroxide concentration

ive got 5Lt of 50% H2O2, but i cant fin d a synth for AP that calls for this percentage.
however m ost call for 50mL 30% H2O 2, i was wondering how i co uld figure out how much of the 50% i should use...
5 0 m L 30%
x mL 50%
i was thinking 100/30 =3.3, 10 0/50=2
then 50 / 3.3 x 2 = 30m L app rox ??

ok this abit off my topic here, but i did nt want to m ake annother thread to annoy mods with...
whats ANNM ?
ive detonated APAN b efore, ive made RDX, and detonated it..........im reasonably well learned in m a k i n g e x p l o s i v e s . b u t i v e
seen alot of ANNM but never heard what its really called.......
0EZ0 April 30th, 2003, 02:52 AM

jfk, please try and search before you post a question.
Both your questions could more than easily have been answered with a few clicks.
ANNM = Amm onium Nitrate + Nitromethane
Also called Kinepak, it is a hig h velocity binary explosive com position. R un a search fer' christ's sake.
As in regards to the peroxide, you m ay also wish to sea rch for an answer! It has been discussed m any tim es over.
If you want to use 50% Hydrogen pero xide instead of 30%, then adjust the ratios like this:
If you norm ally use 1 0 m l o f 3 0 % p e r o x i d e , t h a t means that there is approxim ately 3ml pure peroxide in the solution. 3m l
m ultiplied times 2 gives you 6ml of 50 % peroxide. So the adjusted ratio of perox ide is 6m l 5 0 % H 2 O 2 i n s t e a d o f 1 0 m l 30%
H 2 O 2.
I d o h o p e t h a t t h e s e q u e s t i o n s aren't the sam e kind that we will be seeing on the rest of the forum. W o r k o n e x p a n d i n g y o u r
knowledge to answer you own questions, instead of always asking to be hand-fed ...
a_bab April 30th, 2003, 04:04 AM

Q u o t e : " i v e m ade RDX, and detonated it..........im reasonably well learned in m a k i n g e x p l o s i v e s "
Really ?! And how comes that you are not able to do this sim ple calculation ?
Leadazide April 30th, 2003, 04:22 AM

I would suggest buying a basic, very basic, chem istry book!
Einsteinium April 30th, 2003, 06:47 PM

jfk have you ever heard about dilution? It's a wonderful procedure that allows you to produce 30% H2O2 from the apparently
available 50% H2O2... You're far away from being well learned in m a k i n g e x p l o s i v e i f y o u d o n t know how to dilute an
a q u e o u s s o l u t i o n . T h i s i s f u n d a m e n t a l ! I w o u l d a d v i s e y o u t o p e rform a sim ple search for "beginner chemistry" (or
s o m ething alike) on a decent search e ngine. Simply add 66mL distilled water to 100mL of 50% H2 O2 and you will e n d u p
with 166m L 3 0 % H 2 O 2 ( o r s c a l e u p /down fo r whatev er quantity you n e e d I h o p e y o u k n o w h o w t o s c a l e u p / d o w n ? ). BTW ,
even if m any chem ical procedures ofte n works well using more concentrated reagents, it's usually better to dilute yo ur reagents
down to what the procedure calls upon instead of taking useless risks (especially in the synthesis of a very unstable explosive,
carried out by a neophyte chem ist)...
DaveTheShit April 30th, 2003, 09:40 PM

The extra few mL of water from dillutin g it will probably reduce the yield a bit. I'm basing this on the com pairison of 3% to 30%
H 2 O 2 I did o nce. U sing 50% H2O2, you'll have a harder tim e controling the temperature, but with care it ca n b e d o n e .
Anthony May 1st, 200 3, 03:25 PM

W hy should there be a reduction in yie ld? There's the sam e n u m ber of m olecules of reactants in there, just a few extra wate r
ones.
zeocrash May 1st, 200 3, 03:56 PM

are you sure that was RDX you made and detonated.
what m ethod did you use to m ake it, and what primary explosive did you use to detonate it. like e veryone else i struggle to
believe that you made RDX and are well learned in the ways of explosive s, when you cant even do a simple calculation to work
out how to dilute the H2O2
look i'll do it for you if you want,
s o f o r e v e r y 6 0 m e a s u r e s o f H 2 O 2 y o u n e e d t o add 40 m e a s u r e s of water.
(i believe m y calculations are correct, i went in reverse, working out how much water would need to be removed to m a k e 3 0 %
into 50% but still)
you have a long way to go before you are a truely learned samu rai of the forum
Einsteinium May 1st, 200 3, 08:47 PM

David, for the same amount of reaction time the yield will be lower with less concentrated reagents as the reaction speed is
proportional to the co ncentration but, if you let the reaction proceed up to the equilibrium , you sho u l d g e t t h e s a m e yield of AP
using either 3%, 30% or 50% H2O2. As Anthon y's said, more water won't interfere with the yield as the equ ilibrium constant is
inde pendant of the dilution factor (as long as all compo nents are equally diluted).
jfk May 3rd, 2003, 05:25 AM

W ell im sorry if my questions offended you, i did do a search on ANNM on google but it cam e up with only inform ation on APAN
and ANFO, I also asked a few of my chemistry lecturers if m y calculations were correct on the hydrogen peroxide concentration
thing. thanks for your answers, however caustic they were they were also quite helpful. And I do kn ow a decent amm o u n t o f
chemistry, but its not like im a qualifie d explosive technition or anything.
i figured you wouldnt mind questions like this in the watercooler section.
as for the R DX i used m eglos method, i detonated it with a booster of APAN, but im not sure if it was a full detonation. im
currently securing more nitric to further m y research on RDX.
I just found som ething quite interestin g on the subject of R DX:
How might I be exposed to RDX?
Breathing dust with RDX in it.

Getting R DX on their skin.
Drinking contaminated water or touching contaminated soil near factories that pro duce RDX.
How can RDX affect m y health?
R D X c a n c a u s e s e i z u r e s ( a p r o b l e m of the nervous system ) in hum a n s a n d a n i m als when large am ounts are inhaled or eate n.
The effects of long-term (365 days or longer), low-level exposure on the nervous system are not known. Nausea and vom iting
h a v e a l s o b e en seen. No othe r significant health effects have been seen in huma ns.
Rats and mice that ate RDX for 3 months or m ore had decreased body weights and slight liver and k i d n e y d a m a g e .
It is not known whether RDX causes birth defects in hum ans; it did not cause birth defects in rabbits, but it did result in smaller
offspring in rats. It is not known whether RDX a ffects reproductio n i n p e o p l e .
How likely is RDX to cause cancer?
The EPA has determined hat RDX is a possible human carcinogen.
In one study, RDX caused live r tum ors in m ice that were exposed to it in the food. However, carcinogenic effects were not
noted in rat studies a n d n o h u m a n d a t a a r e a v a i l a b l e .
Is there a medical test to show whethe r I ' v e b e e n e x p o s e d t o R D X ?
Medical tests are available that can m easure RDX levels in your blood or urine. However, these tests can only be used if you
have com e in contact with R DX in the last few days. These tests can determ i n e i f y o u h a v e b e e n e x p o s e d t o R D X , b u t t h e y
c a n n o t b e u s e d t o d e t e r m i n e h o w m u c h R D X e n t e r e d y o ur body.
T h e s e t e s t s a r e n t available at m ost d o c t o r s o f f i c e s , b u t c a n b e d o n e a t s p e c i a l l a b o r a t o r i e s t h a t h a v e t h e r i g h t e q u i p m e n t .
However, the y cannot be used to determine long-term health effects from RDX.
T h e u s u a l i m m e d i a t e h e a l t h e f f e c t s ( s e i z u r e s , m uscle twitching, or vomiting) from very high exposures wou ld probably occur
b e f o r e y o u h a d t h e b l o o d o r u rine test.
H a s t h e f e d e ral government m a d e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s t o protect hum an h ealth?
T h e D e p a r t m ent of Transportation (DO T) has m any regulations on the transportation of explosives.
The EPA reco m m ends a drinking water guideline of 2 micrograms (g) RDX per liter for lifetime exposure for adults.
The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) has re com m e n d e d a n e x p o s u r e l i m i t o f 1 . 5 m illigram s R DX
per cubic meter of air (1.5 mg /m 3) for a 10-hour workday, 40-hour workweek.
The NIO SH short-term exposure limit, which is the highest level of RDX that they recomm e n d w o r k e r s b e e x p o s e d t o f o r 1 5
m inutes, is 3 m g / m 3 .
T h e A m e r i c a n C o n f e r e n c e o f G o v e r n m ental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) also recom m e n d s a n e x p o s u r e l i m i t o f 1 . 5 m g / m 3 i n

workplace air for an 8 -hour wo rkday, 40-hour workweek.
zaibatsu May 3rd, 2003, 10:15 AM

I can't believe you made RDX if you had to use a booster and STILL it didn't fully detonate. R DX is often used in caps with less
than 1g of prim ary and always fully detonates. I'd suggest you don't waste your chem s till you learn m ore. Search R ogue Sci
for inform ation about ANNM.
Monkey_P oo69 May 3rd, 2003, 08:39 PM

goin g b a c k t o t h e h 2 o 2 m e a s u r e m e n t t h i n g . . .
3% 300m l
6% 150m l
9% 100m l
12% 75m l
15% 60m l
18% 50m l
21% 42.8ml
24% 37.5ml
27% 33m l
30% 30m l
35% 25.7ml
this should b e helpful even though you have your answer which is 10m l
____________
h e r e ' s s o m e more... (I know posting this looks stupid b u t s o m e o n e d i d a s k a q u e s t i o n a b o u t t h i s s o m e I m just tak ing it a
little bit furth e r s o i f a n y o n e n e e d s t o k n o w t h e m e a s u r e m ents quickly,th ey can look at this)
27%= 33m l
28%- 32m l
29%-31m l
30%- 30m l
31%- 29m l
32%- 28m l
33%- 27m l
34%-26m l
35%- 25m l
36%- 24m l
37%- 23m l
38%-22m l
39%- 21m l
40%- 20m l
41%- 19m l
42%- 18m l
43%- 17m l
44%- 16m l
45%- 15m l
46%- 14m l
47%- 13m l
48%- 12m l
49%- 11m l
50%- 10m l
I think this is right
jfk May 8th, 2003, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by zaibatsu
I can't believe you made RDX if you had to use a booster and STILL it didn't fully detonate. R DX is often used in caps with less
than 1g of prim ary and always fully detonates. I'd suggest you don't waste your chem s till you learn m ore. Search R ogue Sci
for inform ation about ANNM.
i did a search, and learned - i also said i wasnt sure about a full det, not having seen RDX go off entirely before i had no idea
of what to expect. I've just finished m a k i n g m y recent batch and im going to set som e test for it tom morow, since i know what
to expect now ill see if it was or wasnt a false det.
t h a n k s t o m o n k e y p o o for tha t uber long table :)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > things to do with AP (and other explosives)
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Efraim_barkbit April 30th, 2003, 05:41 PM

someone wants to share stories and tips on what to do/things to blow up?
or just making "cool" explosions..:)
I find it very amusin to blow up toys (especially cars) with firecrackers , and have done so in periods for so long as i can remember, but when I found out to make the simple,
but yet powerul AP, my "hobby" rose to a whole new level...:D
knowledgehungry April 30th, 2003, 07:31 PM

Please dont make KEWL explosions with AP. AP is not a fucking firecracker that you can play with, you put AP in something metal i.e a toy car and you had better be prepared
for a piece of metal coming at you at 5000M per sec.

you should keep the amount of AP you use down to a minimum other than making AP crackers. why not make AP DETONATORS. then you can use some real explosives :)
Monkey_Poo69 April 30th, 2003, 08:53 PM

Knowledgehungry is right, you shouldn't blow up things with sharpnel like metal just for fun. Maybe if you want to blow open a locked metal box that you can't open, doing it
outside in a remote location with a place to go for cover should be fine but for something as unimportant as blowing up a car, it isn't worth the risk of being injured or dying.
Always try to have as little sharpnel as possible.
Efraim_barkbit May 1st, 2003, 09:17 AM

to knowledgehungry, what do you consider a "kewl" explosion?
and I dont think that Im the only one in this forum "playing" with AP.
and if im blowing up something metal, then of course I dont stand like 2 m away.. the closest ihve been when i blew up a metal thing, without beeing behind some protection
is like 10-15m, and then i used like 1g. Im not stupid.
the shrapnel flied about 3 m ... max, and defenitly not with 5000 m/s.
(kingspaz, your picture is really nice, made it yourself??)
knowledgehungry May 1st, 2003, 04:39 PM

I find it very amusin to blow up toys (especially cars) with firecrackers
That is KEWL! Explosives aren't "amusing", they are something that many people have lost their life to. Firecrackers are toys HE's ARE NOT! If you want to be amused watch
T.V. Explosives are not meant to be a diversion, they have purposes.
Play with firecrackers, work with explosives!
I like that thats gonna be my quote:).
Mr Cool May 1st, 2003, 04:53 PM

I'm sure we all enjoy smashing stuff with HE, but the way you said it did make you sound exceedingly kewl, Efraim. You implied that you treat AP as if it were a firecracker. If
you do that it will bite you sooner or later.
"the shrapnel flied about 3 m" Haha, the bits you found might have done. The bits you didn't find could have landed a few hundred yards away, or become embedded in a
nearby tree. Or maybe you just don't know shit about blowing up toy cars well :D.
Efraim_barkbit May 1st, 2003, 07:21 PM

English is not my mother language, so I dont know if everything I write mean exactly what I want it to mean..
I belive that I found all the pices of the car. it was six of them.
im curious, what "work" do you do with your explosives, knowledgehungry??

have you never used them just for fun?:confused:
I dont treat it as I would treat a firecracker, that would not be very wise..
I treat it as gently that I can, expecting it to blow up by the slightest bump(?? in swedish: stt) I get a bit worried every time i put the lid on a filmcanister with AP on, even
though(? this word dont sound right) I always wipe the edges free from the powder.
even when i make explosives (what should I call them??) with black powder, I always tries to get behind some protection from shrapnel.
in my original post, when I said that my "hobby" had rose to a whole new level, I didnt mean that Im blowing up more, or only, toys now, but that I now have something
powerful enough to do other things too.
I realize now that it wasnt quite obvious what I meant.
is there a difference between beeing amused by blowing things up, as I said, and enjoying blowing things up, like Mr Cool??
in any case, I apoligize for my English, and for sounding so "kewl", hope you forgive me:)
frogfot May 1st, 2003, 07:43 PM

When making/setting off explosives one should have fun, thats and important part. I'm sure that engeneers in explosives are also amused when setting of HEs :)
Heh, I have a confession to make. Some days ago i made my first explosive device.. well, actually it was a big firecracker. 35 g BP in paper tube. :rolleyes: I have made BP,
different flash compositions and some primaries in maby 5 years.. but i've only burned those in piles.. never attemted to make any explosive device before. And today tested a
successeful acetone/paraffine fireball, throwed up by a charge of BP. Seems like i will play with those fireballs some while.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Flameless Sm oke Generators
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Ghostcustom 24 May 1st, 200 3, 07:03 PM

Many types of compositions and reactions are known to produce effective sm oke screens however there are certain situations
where an alternative to com b u s t i o n i s n e e d e d . H e n c e t h is string was born to discu s m e t h o d s o f f l a m e l e s s s m o k e g e nerating
devices, specifically ones that are hand held and can be used in tactical paintball fighting (where flam e a n d e x p l o s i v e a r e
prohibited).
There is very little that I was able to unearth although I believe that the arm ed forces have devices of this nature (silicon or
s o m ething similar?) although not much inform ation is p u b l i s h e d a b o u t t h e m .
*Moderators please move this to Pyrotechnics if it is successful.
mrcfitzgerald May 1st, 200 3, 07:08 PM

There are m a n y m e t h o d s t h a t a r e u s e d t o g e n e r a t e f o g s a n d s u ch. I believe these use either liquid Nitrogen, and/or frozen
Carbon dioxide. However to the end of a hand held flam eless smoke generator, these are not sufficiant as they are bulky and
r a t h e r e x p e n sive . Good thought though.
frogfot May 1st, 200 3, 07:17 PM

I've seen in a store a device that was powered from 230V and was dipped under water, it created water fog. I beliave it uses
sonic waves for this.. maby this is not som ething one would have in field, but this thing is funny. W o n d e r i f t h o s e u s u a l 4 1 k H z
speakers will work for this.. :p
xyz May 1st, 200 3, 08:58 PM

Y o u c a n m ake a very cool looking effect by having smoke comp inside a sealed container and with a waterproof fuse, and
throwing it into water. It make s lots of bubbling (duh!) and it causes a smoke screen to slowly spread out across the water.
You may be able to use a sealed smoke device that is triggere inside a bucket of water.
Tuatara May 2nd, 2003, 03:59 AM

P e r h a p s a b a b y v e r s i o n o f t h e sm o k e m a c h i n e s u s e d i n dance clubs? Sort of a water pistol full of smoke oil, witha b attery
powered heater ...
One can always m ix HCl and NH4 vapo urs, but its not really smo ke - rather thin a nd wimpy really.
That 230V th ing that m a k e s m ist from under water is called a nebuliser, and uses ultrasonics at a frequency of about 1.7MHz.
41kHz wont produce droplets sm a l l e n o u g h t o r e m a i n a i r - b o u r n e
Mr-Eckted May 3rd, 2003, 12:23 AM

T h e " s m oke machines" in clubs are actually fog m achines. They work like humedifiers, but they use a glycerol/water m ix.
priapo May 6th, 2003, 06:22 PM

You can produce flam e l e s s s m o k e h e a t i n g a m ixture of acetone, propilene glycol (antifreezer) or just using dry ice.
H e r e y o u h a v e t h e s c h e m atics and different m i x t u r e s d e p e n d i n g on the use you are going to give it. I wouldn't recom m e n d
y o u t o u s e a c e t o n a m ixtures in small rooms because it is quite irritating for the eyes.
http://www.geocities.com/hellacoolstuff/Fogger.htm l
http://www.gotfog.com/fog_m achine_how.htm l
http://www.haunted.50m e g s . c o m /props/fog/
http://www.earthsands.com / h o l i d a y / h a l l o w e e n / p r o p s h o m e m a d e f o g . h t m l
Tuatara May 6th, 2003, 08:45 PM

Great links! Dam n, I had access to 200l of glycol, and d idn't aquire any as I couldn't think of a use for it at the tim e . I ' v e b e e n
playing with using a ceram i c h e a t e r e l e m e n t a s a v a p o u riser for a diesel burner - should work great for a smoke m achine too.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Jokes
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knowledgehungry May 1st, 2003, 11:16 PM

During the anarchy that was the board change there was a jokes topic, they were mostly rascist. When i heard these i HAD to
post them.
A black husband and wife are sitting in the living room watching the TV with their year-old baby. Suddenly the baby wails
"Mother!" The husband jumps up in excitement and says, "Did you hear that? Our son just said half a word!"
A white man walks into a bar and says to the black bartender. "Nigger, get me a beer." The bartender replies, "excuse me?"
"Did you not hear me? I said 'nigger get me a beer.'" The bartender, now very upset, says, "don't you feel that you should
talk like that in this day and age". "I will if I want to," said the white man. "I'm the one ordering." The bartender says, "How
would you feel if we changed places?" The white man agrees and goes behind the counter. The black man, now the customer
says, "Cracker Jack ass-hole, get me a beer". The white man turns to the black man and says, "We don't serve niggers!
There are three guys sitting at a bar: a German, an Italian, and a black guy. Jesus Christ himself walks into the bar and over
to them. He touches the German guy and says, "broken leg, you're healed." Then Christ walks to the Italian touches him and
says, "sprained ankle, you're healed." Both men are now healed and then Christ walks over to the black guy and goes to
touch him, and he pulls away quickly and shouts, "don't touch me I am on disability!"
why are trees in harlem so close toghether

for public transportation
Two black guys walk into a bar and they see a white guy in a Klan hat and he says, "no blacks allowed." The black guys say,
"didn't you ever hear of the Emancipation Proclamation?" The guy in the klan hat says, "no, I don't listen to hip hop."
A black man was walking and he came by a lake. At the lake he saw a Chinese man skipping rocks across it. The rocks were
making sounds as they went across. CHING CHANG CHONG. The black man asked what he was doing. He said he was
communicating with his ancestors. The black man said, "let me try that". He picked up a rock and skipped it across the lake.
They went CHIM-PAN-ZEE. He got mad, picked up a big log and threw it down, it went BABOON!
Why are all black people fast?

all the slow ones are in jail
What is the most confusing holiday in the African American community?

Father's Day
A Truck Driver has to deliver 330 black Brunswick bowling balls to Arkansas. Along the way he sees a black guy hitchhiking, so
he pulls over and says "I'll give ya a ride but there's no room up here in the cab get in the back with the balls." So he does. A
little further down the road he sees another black guy with a flat tire on his bike, and he too is lookin' for a ride, so the driver
tells him that he'll be glad to give him a ride but he has to ride in back with the balls. He agrees. So just as there getting into
Arkansas they get pulled over by a detective and a rookie. The detective tells the rookie to get the drivers credentials and he'll
check the cargo. As the rookie is getting the paperwork the detective runs to the front of the truck and tells the driver to get
the hell out of Arkansas, so he goes on his way. As the two cops are walking back to the car the rookie asks why he let the
driver go and he replied, "son, he had a truck full of Negro eggs, two hatched and one already stole a bike
Have you ever heard of Ku Klux Kanieval?

He tried to jump 50 blacks with a steam roller.
Cyclonite May 3rd, 2003, 09:08 PM

Heres a good one
How do you make an eight year old girl cry twice?
Wipe the blood off your dick with her teddy bear:D
Sarevok May 3rd, 2003, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Cyclonite
Heres a good one
How do you make an eight year old girl cry twice?
Wipe the blood off your dick with her teddy bear:D
This one is amusing Cyclonite! :D
The question/answer jokes below I copied to a .txt from a webpage some time ago.
Q: What's the best thing about having a daughter?

A: THE SEX!
Q: What's the best part about fucking a seven year-old?

A: Hearing the pelvis crack.
Q: What's the worst part about fucking a seven year-old?

A: Getting the blood on your clown suit.
Q: What's bad about fucking a nine year-old?

A: Knowing a seven year-old is tighter.
Q: What do you do after eating bald pussy?

A: Put the diaper back on it.
Q: What's blue and squirms in the corner?

A: Baby in a plastic baggie.
Q: What's green and sits still in the corner?
A: Same baby, two weeks later.
Q: What cries a lot and runs around in circles?

A: Baby with a foot nailed to the floor.

How many Jews can you fit in a car?
2 in the front 3 in the back and about 1000 in the ashtray
xyz May 3rd, 2003, 11:17 PM

Was Princess Diana on the radio the day she died?
Yes, she was on the steering wheel and the dashboard too.
Monkey_Poo69 May 3rd, 2003, 11:33 PM

LOL nice one xyz
Q: What's the first thing a redneck says after losing her virginity?
A: Get off of me Dad, you're crushing my cigarettes.
Q: What does a redneck say after sex?
A: Thanks Mom.
Q: How do you kill 100 Mexicans?
A: Blow up their van.
Q: How do you know when a redneck has her period?

A: She's only wearing one sock.
Q: What do you do after you rape a 12 year old deaf dumband blind girl?
A: Brake her fingers so she cant tell her mom.
Q: What is the difference between Michael Jackson and a grocery bag?

A: One is made of plastic and is dangerous for children to play with. The other is used to carry groceries.
Q: What's the difference between a gay man and a freezer?

A: Freezer doesn't fart when you pull the meat out
Q: Why aren't there any puerto ricans on Star Trek?

A: They won't work in the future either.
Q: What's the useless skin around a vagina called?

A: The woman.
I got all these from www. thisisacryforhelp.com (I dont mean any of these jokes, I just find them funny)
Mr Cool May 4th, 2003, 08:02 AM

Q. What's the difference between a pile of dead babies and a Ferrari?
A. I don't have a Ferrari in my garage.
I still haven't been able to work out why dead baby jokes are funny.
Flake2m May 4th, 2003, 08:22 AM

whats a rednecks idea of foreplay?
Are you awake Mum
What do you call an abo in a red suit?

A jaffa
What do you call a load of abos in a freezer?

stiff shit
What do you do if you see an abo driving a ferrari?

call the police
Why dont pygmies use tampons?

they'd trip over the string
Efraim_barkbit May 4th, 2003, 01:13 PM

what did god say when he created the first nigger??
- Oh shit
why dont sharks attack niggers?

they mistake them for whale shit
whats the similarity between a tractor tire and a nigger??

both work best in chains
A nigger is waiting for the bus, and he had to take a shit, but there were no WC around, so he pulls down his pants and make
a big pile at the bus-stop.
when the bus comes, the nigger asks how much the ticket costs. then the bus driver says:
10 for you and 5 for your kid.
(these were translated from swedish, as good as I could)
a_bab May 4th, 2003, 01:44 PM

What's the difference between an american white cow and an american black cow ?
The american white cow saids "Moooo" and the american black cow saids "Moooo, man !"
Cyclonite May 5th, 2003, 05:56 PM

There was an indian and a cowboy, the indian tied up his horse sheep and dog and went into a store. When the indian came
out the cowboy asked the indian if he could talk to his dog, the indian said "dog no talk" well the cowboy said "ill give it a shot
anyway". "So dog how ya doing"? To the indians amazment the dog replied "Not bad, the indian gives me water takes me on
walks and takes good care of me". The cowboy proceeded to ask if he could talk to the horse, the indian said "horse no talk".
The cowboy tried anyways, "hey horse hoes it going?" the horse replied "pretty good, the indian keeps me in the shade and
takes care of me pretty good.The indians eyes almost popped out and his jaw dropped. The cowboy then proceeded to ask if
he could talk to the sheep, the indian though for a moment and said "sheep lie". :D
xyz May 6th, 2003, 07:00 AM

One day little jimmy was in the lounge room playing with his train set. His mum was in the kitchen. He moved the train around
the track and then stopped it and said "Everybody get the fuck off the train, this is the last station, everybody on the platform
stay the fuck off the train because this is the last fucking station", and his mum came running in and said "Jimmy! How dare
you use such language, go up to your room for 2 hours to think about what you did! So Jimmy goes up to his room for 2 hours
and then comes back and starts playing with his train set again. He moves the train around the tracks and then says "Could
everybody please get off the train as this is the last station, Could everbody on the platform please stay off the train as this is
the last station, and If you are angry about having to wait 2 hours to get off the train, talk to the fat bitch in the kitchen".
What did the black kid get for christmas?

My bike.
Ever wondered why niggers are somtimes called boongs in Australia?

Bullbars are in widespread use over here.
SMACK
Passenger: What was that?
Driver: Just a nigger
Passenger: Oh, OK
Clang Clang Clang SMACK
Passenger: What was that?
Driver: Another nigger
Passenger: But what were the clanging noises?
Driver: The fences I had to go through to get him
Anthony May 6th, 2003, 07:49 PM

After having their 11th child, a redneck couple decided that was enough, as they could not afford a larger bed. So the husband
went to his doctor and told him that he and his wife didn't want to have any more children.
The doctor told him there was a procedure called a vasectomy that would fix the problem but it was expensive. A less costly
alternative was to go home, get a firework, light it, put it in a beer can, then hold the can up to his ear and count to 10.
The Scouser said to the doctor, "I may not be the smartest guy in the world, but I don't see how putting a firework in a beer
can next to my ear is going to help me." "Trust me, it will do the job", said the doctor.
So the man went home, lit a banger and put it in a beer can. He held the can up to his ear and began to count: "1, 2, 3, 4, 5,"
at which point he paused, placed the beer can between his legs and continued counting on his other hand...

Q: When is a door not a door?
A :When it's ajar!
What did Adolf Hitler say before his troops got into their tanks?
'Troops get into your tanks.'

Back in the Swinging Sixties, Michael Caine is holding a big

showbiz party in his swanky new house.
Everyone who s a nyone is there - top stars from the world s of

movies and music, fashion and art.
T h e r e s the bes t wines that money can buy, oysters, ch a m p a g n e,

Lennon and McCartney are helping themselves at the bar,
Jim Morrison and his band are sitting on the couch sin ging Light My
Fire ,
and over in the corn er, George Peppard s g etting very pally with Sophia
Loren.
Alls g oing really well, until Jim Morrison decides he s b ored out
of his skull, and wants to go home for an early night curled up with a
good book.
Oi, Jim, objects Michael Caine , party s just g ot started. How s

a b o u t I get one of the ladies to ta ke you into the spare bedroom for
a bit of the how s yer fath er?
Fair pla y, nods Jim [we ll thats n ot his exact wo rds, but you get
the g ist], as long a s sh e does the rest of the band too.
Not a problem, Jim, smiles Michael, as he pulls a young dolly

bird in close and whispers some instructions in her ear.
Half an hour later, the young lass is just wiping her chin, when in
walks Ringo Starr from the Beatles.
Alright, luv? he d rones, d o n t suppose you fancy extending that

service to me, do you?
The young woman thinks about this for a s econd, the n says What the
hell! and proceeds to unzip Ringo s fly an d get to work.
R i n g o s h avin g a gran d time , until, mere moments befo re the end,

the door flies open and Michael Caine bursts in. He grabs the young one
by
the back of the hair and Slaps her hard across the face!
Wh-what was that for? sh e whimpers.

I told you, Cain e snarls.
(wait for it)
Y o u re on ly supposed to b low the bloody Doors off...
:D
Dude is driving along through town when suddenly the traffic comes to complete gridlock, and he can't see any reason. He
see's a Police Orificer walking between the traffic talking to drivers. After a few minutes, the cop reachs dude's car.
"What's going on officer?" dude asks.
"A Frenchman is standing in the road up front and refuses to move! He says he's had enough, his wife left him for his father,
his dog died and he's been diagnosed with AIDs. On top of that he's in huge debt. He's threatening to dose himself in petrol
and set himself ablaze! "
"Oh my!" exclaims d00d.
"So yeah" says the cop "we're having a bit of a whip round to help him out"
"How much have you collected thus far?"
"Half a gallon..."
:P
nbk2000 May 9th, 2003, 01:45 AM

Q: What's an Oakie virgin?
A: A girl who can outrun her father.
Q: What's an Oakie mother?

A: A girl who couldn't outrun her brothers.
Q: What's Oakie foreplay?

A: *SMACK* Get me another beer, bitch!
Q: What's black, blue, and red all over?

A: Dead nigger cop. :D
Q: How many jews does it take to replace a light bulb?

A: "Replace a light bulb? Oi! You know how much electricity costs?! Sunlight is free!"
Q: What's the difference between an African-American and a nigger?

A: 9 letters.
Q: What's the difference between a nigger and shit?

A: :confused: There is one?
Q: Know how the Grand Canyon was created?

A: A jew dropped a quarter down a gopher hole.
Q: What's Oakie chess?

A: Checkers.
A frenchman, brit, Texan, and mexican are on a plane when the engine die. The pilot comes running out of the cockpit
wearing a parachute and carrying a spare. He throws the spare to the four passengers and says "That's the only one I've got
left. Decide amoungst yourselves, 'cause I'm outta' here!" before jumping out of the plane.
They look at each other for a second before the brit stands up, shouts "God save the Queen", and jumps out the plane to his
death.
The frenchman stands up, shouts "Viva La France!", and jumps out to his death.
The Texan and mexican look at each other before the Texan picks up the mexican, throws him out the door, and yells
"Remember the Alamo!"
:D
xyz May 9th, 2003, 06:59 AM

A mexican, an african american, and an aboriginal all in a car. Who's driving?
The police.
Leadazide May 15th, 2003, 08:24 AM

1. Why did God create woman?
To carry semen from the bedroom to the toilet.
2. If the dove is the bird of peace, what

is the bird of true love?
The swallow.
3. How do you annoy your girlfriend during

sex?
Call her.
4. Why do women fake orgasms?

Because they think men care.
5. What is the definition of "making love"?

Something a woman does while a guy is
fucking her.
6. What should you do if your girlfriend

starts smoking?
Slow down and use a lubricant.
7. What's the difference between oral sex

and anal sex?
Oral sex makes your day. Anal sex makes
your [w]hole weak.
8. How many sexists does it take to change

a light bulb?
None, let the bitch cook in the dark.
9.What's the difference between

pre-menstrual tension and B.S.E?
One's mad cow disease; the other's an
agricultural problem.
10. Why does the bride always wear white?

Because it's good for the dishwasher to
match the stove and
refrigerator.
11. What do you say to a woman with 2 black

eyes?
Nothing, she's been told twice already. (My favorite!! ) :)
12. How many men does it take to open a

beer?
None. It should be opened by the time she
brings it in.
13. If your wife keeps coming out of the kitchen to nag at
you, what have you done wrong?
Made her chain too long.
14. How do you turn a fox into an elephant?

Marry it!
15. What is the difference between a

battery and a woman?
A battery has a positive side.
16. What are the three fastest means of

communication?
1) Internet 2) Telephone 3) Tel-a-woman
17. Why do hunters make the best lovers?

Because they go deep in the bush, shoot
more than once, and they eat what
they shoot.
18. How are fat girls and mopeds alike?

They're both fun to ride until your friends
find out.
19. What should you give a woman who has

everything?
A man to show her how to work it.
20. How are tornadoes and marriage alike?

They both begin with a lot of blowing and sucking, and in
the end you lose
your house.
21. Why does a bride smile when she walks

up the aisle?
She knows she's given her last blow job.
22. What's the difference between a bitch

and a whore?
A whore sleeps with everyone at the party
while a bitch sleeps with
everyone at
the party except you.
23. What's the difference between your wife

and your job?
fter 10 years the job still sucks.
24. What's the difference between love,

true love, and showing off?
Spitting, swallowing, and gargling.
25. Why is the space between a women's

breasts and her hips called
a
waist"?
Because you could easily fit another pair
of tits in there.
26. Do you know why they call it the Wonder

Bra?
When you take it off, you wonder where her
tits went.
27. How do you make 5 pounds of fat look

good?
Put a nipple on it.
28. Why did the woman cross the road?

What's the bitch doing out of the kitchen
in the first place?!
29. Why are there no female astronauts on

the moon?
'cause it doesn't need cleaning yet.
30. How is a woman like a condom?

Both of them spend more time in your wallet
than on your dick
Tuatara May 16th, 2003, 06:14 AM

What do you get if you cross an elephant with a skunk?
A smell you will never forget!
-------------------
A sausage and an egg are sitting in a frying pan.

Suddenly the sausage pipes up and says to the egg " Its getting a bit warm in here, isn't it?"
The egg says " Oh my god! A talking sausage!"
------------------
A sandwich walks into a bar.
The barman says "Sorry, we don't serve food in here"
------------------
Is there another word for synonym?
------------------
My friend drowned in a bowl of muesli. He was pulled under by a strong currant.
------------------
Two aerials meet on a roof, fall in love and get married.
The ceremony was rubbish, but the reception was brilliant.
------------------
Why is the Alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?
------------------
What was the best thing before sliced bread?
------------------
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
------------------
If the police arrest a mime, do they tell him he has the right to remain silent?
------------------
If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest drown too?

The following are actual excerpts (supposedly ;)) from history reports and tests from America's finest high schools and
colleges. Spelling has been preserved.
1. The climate of the Sarah is such that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere.
2. Ancient Egypt was inhabited by mummies and they all wrote in hydraulics..
3. Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world with a 100-foot clipper.
4. The Bible is full of interesting caricatures. In the first book of the Bible, Guinessis, Adam and Eve were created from an
apple tree.
5. Moses went up on Mount Cyanide to get the ten commandments. He died before he ever reached Canada.
6.The airplane was invented and first flown by the Marx brothers.
7. Hitler's instrumentality of terror was the Gespacho.
8. Queen Elizabeth was the "Virgin Queen." As a queen she was a success. When she exposed herself before her troops they
all shouted "hurrah."
9. Noah's wife was Joan of Ark.
10. Middle Eastern history was written by Florence of Arabia.
11. The Soviets erected the Berlin Mall?.
12. Corruption grew especially ripe in Zaire, where Mobutu was known to indulge in more than an occasional little armadillo..
13. The Boston Tea Party was held at Pearl Harbor..
14. During the Dark Ages it was mostly dark.
15. Christianity was just another mystery cult until Jesus was born. The mother of Jesus was Mary, who was different from other
women because of her immaculate contraption.
16. Roman girls who did not marry could become Vestigal Virgins, a group of women who were dedicated to burning the
internal flame..
17. History is nothing more than the behind of the present.
18. This gives incites from the anals of the past..
19. Civil rights leader Martin Luther Junior was slain in the 1960s, shortly after making his famous "If I Had A Hammer"
speech.
20. World War II began turning around when the Allies landed near Italy's toe and gradually advanced up her leg.
21. Hitler shot himself in the bonker.
22. Satan Husane invaided Kiwi and Sandy Arabia
23. Spartacus led a slave rebellion in ancient Rome and then appeared in a movie about it later.
24. Judyism had one big God named Yahoo.
25. Martin Luther nailed 95 theocrats to a church door.
26. The greatest writer of the Renaissance was William Shakespeare. He was born in the year 1564, supposedly on his
birthday. He never made much money and is famous only because of his plays. He wrote tragedies, and comedies, all in
Islamic pentameter. Romeo and Juliet are an example of a heroic couplet.
27. Romeo's last wish was to be laid by Juliet.
28. Writing at the same time as Shakespeare was Miguel Cervantes. He wrote Donkey Hote.
29. One of the causes of the Revolutionary War was the English put tacks in their tea. Also, the colonists would send their
parcels through the post without stamps. Finally the colonists won the War and no longer had to pay for taxis.
30. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were two singers of the Declaration of Independence.
31. Franklin discovered electricity by rubbing two cats backwards and declared, "A horse divided against itself cannot stand."
32. Franklin died in 1790 and is still dead.
33. Soon the Constitution of the United States was adopted to secure domestic hostility.
34. Under the constitution the people enjoyed the right to keep bare arms.
35. Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice. They killed him. Socrates died from an
overdose of wedlock.
36. After his death, his career suffered a dramatic decline.
37. In the Olympic games, Greeks ran races, jumped, hurled the biscuits, and threw the java.
38. Julius Caesar extinguished himself on the battlefields of Gaul. The Ides of March murdered him because they thought he
was going to be made king. Dying, he gasped out: "Tee hee, Brutus."
39. Nero was a cruel tyranny who would torture his subjects by playing the fiddle to them.
40. Finally Magna Carta provided that no man should be hanged twice for the same offense..
41. Another story was William Tell, who shot an arrow through an apple while standing on his son's head.
42. It was an age of great inventions and discoveries. Gutenberg invented removable type and the Bible.
43. Another important invention was the circulation of blood.
44. Sir Walter Raleigh is a historical figure because he invented cigarettes and started smoking.
45. Gravity was invented by Issac Walton. It is chiefly noticeable in the autumn when the apples are falling off the trees.
46. Johann Bach wrote a great many musical compositions and had a large number of children. In between he practiced on an
old spinster which he kept up in his attic.
47. Bach died from 1750 to the present.
48. Beethoven wrote music even though he was deaf. He was so deaf he rote loud music. He took long walks in the forest
even when everyone was calling for him. Beethoven expired in 1827 and later died for this.
49. Queen Victoria was the longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. She was a moral woman who practiced virtue. Her
death was the final event which ended her reign.
50. Louis Pasteur discovered a cure for rabbis.
blindreeper May 20th, 2003, 06:42 AM

Q: What goes blonde, brunette, blonde, brunette, blonde, brunette?
A: A blonde doing cartwheels in a mini skirt
vulture May 20th, 2003, 07:31 PM

A pilot of a helicopter service has to fly a bussinessman to an important meeting.
During the flight the weather gets worse and 2 miles from the airport the helicopter flies into the thickest fog the pilot has ever
seen.
After flying around in circles for an hour, the pilot suddenly spots the windows of a rather large building appearing out of the
fog.
As the pilot keeps the helicopter steady he asks the passenger to write "Where are we?" on a piece of cardboard and hold it
up.
Someone spots it and proceeds to write a reply:
"In a helicopter"
The pilot waves to the man and flies away, succesfully landing at the airport 10 minutes later.
"How the hell did you know where we are? That information was totally useless!"
"Exactly" says the pilot "It was precise, but absolutely useless. So it had to be the Microsoft helpdesk."
Joey makes a journey in a hot air balloon, flying miles and miles and finally touches down in a cornfield. He spots a man
coming toward him and asks: "Sir, can you tell me where I am?"
The man says: "Certainly, you are in a basket in a field of corn."
Joey replies: "You must be a statistician."
"That's amazing, how did you know that?" The man asks.
"Easy", says Joey, "your information is concise, precise and absolutely useless!"
A statistician waded through a stream with an average depth of 1 meter....and drowned...
In god we trust, others must have data.
G.W. Bush is visiting the Queen mum and asks her how he should lead a succesful government.
That's easy the Queen says, just surround yourself with intelligent people. She picks up the phone and orders Tony Blair in.
Five minutes later Tony Blair comes in and says what service is it that you require my Queen?
Solve this question for me the Queen says; Your parents have a kid, but it's not your sister nor your brother. Who is it?
Thats easy, says Tony, that would be me.
See? says the Queen to Dubya.
Dubya returns to Washington D.C. and asks Dick Cheney into the office. Dick, solve this problem for me will ya? Your parents
have a child, it's not your brother nor your sister. Who is it?
Geez, says Dick, let me think about that, I'll come back to you later.
So Dick wanders around the whitehouse, asking every assistant, but nobody knows the answer. Frustrated, he walks into the
toilet and spots the shoes of Colin Powell coming out under a cabin door.
Hey Colin! Dick shouts - I have a question for you!
Shoot! replies Colin.
Your parents have a child, it's not your brother nor your sister. Who is it?
That's easy! says Colin That would be me.
Dick runs back to Dubya and grabs him by the arm, all excited. I have found the answer! Really? says Dubya
Yep, it's Colin Powell!
You ignorant fool! shouts Dubya while he slaps Dick across the face - It's Tony Blair you idiot!
Anthony May 21st, 2003, 03:11 PM

"In god we trust, others must have data"
There's a brass plaque above the till (cash register) in my local that reads: "In God we trust, all others pay cash" :)
nbk2000 May 22nd, 2003, 02:08 AM

Anthony, #50 on your list is incorrect.
The correct version is:
50. Adolf Hitler discovered a cure for rabbis.
:D
mrloud May 27th, 2003, 04:51 AM

Ten Simple Rules for Dating My Daughter
Rule One:
If you pull into my driveway and honk you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up.
Rule Two:
You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck.
If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter's body, I will remove them.
Rule Three:
I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be
falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be
fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing
and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off
during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to
your waist.
Rule Four:
I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilising a "barrier method" of some kind can kill you. Let me
elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you.
Rule Five:
It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues
of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my
daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is "early."
Rule Six:
I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay
with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is
finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry.
Rule Seven:
As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget.
If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her make-up, a process that can
take longer than painting the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like
changing the oil in my bike?
Rule Eight:
The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter:
Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool.
Places where there are no parents, policemen, or nuns within eyesight.
Places where there is darkness.
Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness.
Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or
anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka - zipped up to her throat.
Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which features chain saws are okay. Hockey games
are okay. Old folks homes are better.
Rule Nine:
Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my
daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have
one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind
the house. Do not trifle with me.
Rule Ten:
Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in
over a rice paddy near Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the
guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit your car with both
hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home
safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is
mine.
ElectricJesus May 27th, 2003, 09:33 PM

What do you get when you nut in a 7 year olds eye?
A shovel so you can bury the corpse.
Al Nobel May 28th, 2003, 06:43 PM

http://www.happytreefriends.com/watch_episodes/index.html#
Al Nobel June 1st, 2003, 05:33 PM

http://www.thisisacryforhelp.com/
Take a look at the dead baby section (very funny!).
Arthis June 3rd, 2003, 09:21 AM

Haha, I was looking for HTMDA on google, look at the 10 best HIGH explosives (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/
ka_fucking_boom/10great.html) according to Totse, it's really the joke of the year ! :D
arm June 3rd, 2003, 10:54 AM

God thats funny,
Potassium Permanganate and Sugar, wtf? Now theres a mixture that is garanteed to blow both your hands off at some
unexpected moment!
Haggis June 4th, 2003, 01:23 AM

That isn't as funny as it is sad.
Arthis June 4th, 2003, 06:33 AM

What can we do about it ? When starting in explosives we tend to believe what we are said... At the very beginning I thought
that ACB was a great book ! Then I found this forum before having done any stupid stuffs. The fault is because of the mods
that may be as stupid as their members.
Do you realize the number of bad posts if the mods here were stupid ? Skilled chemists would go away and it would end up in
another totse. The best would be to give them a chance to become good, for example by giving them the link of the Forum;
but I think many would be quickly banned. Damn it's easier to stay on Totse reading craps that make them think they're good
than moving to here where there are lot of of topics they cannot understand. They must realize that if it's too easy then it's
craps for sure ;)
nbk2000 June 4th, 2003, 04:04 PM

Let's keep it on topic, eh fellas? ;)
Yes, TOTSE and Bombshock blow, but this has to do with their moderation (or lack thereof).
Believe it or not, back in the last millenium, we too were k3W|_!
(:eek: "Say it ain't so Joe!")
Then, one day, a wise stranger came to town from the west. He saw anarchy and chaos running rampant. With quick fingers,
and deadly aim, he eliminated the morons. After having a sit down with the local citizens, they elected him sheriff, to bring law
and order to the frontier town.
After years of mercilessly driving off the vagrants and outlaws, mandating continuing education for the citizens, and instilling a
sense of town pride into the populace, they elected him mayor. Thus is my story. :)
Unfortunately for the "competition" *snicker*, there's only one NBK and he's here. :p So they'll just have to wade through the
pools of human excrement that pass for their membership, since their "moderators" are just as stupid as any of their
members.
I'm sure the vast majority of their members have, at one time or another, posted here and been eviscerated within hours (if
not minutes) of their first postings.
We apply a most merciless form of eugenics here, with the goal being the improvement of the pyro species. Anyone coming
here (the Forum) had better bring something to the discussion, or they'll quickly find themselves impaled on the pointy ends
of my claws.
A-BOMB June 4th, 2003, 05:34 PM

A quote from a klansman: the only good nigger was the one that thought up peanutbutter
a question to a klansman, if you could go back in time and kill one person who would it be? Hitler? Lee Harve Oswald? Pikes
Wilks Booth? I would go back and kill that nigger that invented the stop light
With all these jokes I nearly fell out of my chair, I remember the funniest think I ever saw, I was in the bar with my dad
talking to Donny the owner and his son about this house he was building out back, when this nigger came in asking to
directions to Falling Water(they never see the sign that said falling water 1 mile ahead) well anyway huey bigam(it may have
been junior bower) looks up and said ok now who brought the negro, well then he just got this holy shit face like he walked
into a bar full of klansmen (well he pretty much did but for me and my dad) he shoot out of there like I dont know what. That
must of been one of tthe funniest things I had ever saw.
That reminds me I have to call junior bower and see if he'll sell me a part for my double auto, that guy must have 2 of every
gun ever made, for 20+ years when he got his pay check at the end of the week at the mill he would got to a gun store in
connelville and buy 2 of the same type of gun, and if he liked it he would go buy a few more. He must have atleast a 1000+
guns in this vault of his, and he doesn't shoot any of them except for this old model 1894 winchester and this old 16 gauge
savage pump.
inFinie June 5th, 2003, 07:02 AM

A stammerer said to a stammerer if you have half an hour, let's talk five minutes
What does a dog says when you pull its tail like hell?
Nothing, dogs can't talk.
He said lie, i lied,

he said open, i opened,
he get his tool out and inserted.
When he made his job done, i was blooding and i was really afraid.
I was in pain. Thank's to god my tooth was taken off by the dentist.
Why do the cows swings their tails?

Because their tails can't swing them.
Have you ever seen an elephant hidden under a clover?

No? Then it hid itself really good.:D
Do you have a louse shampoo? The animals get real dirt.
I got 1 mark over 100 in history lesson but i nevermind, important thing is participating.
A prisoner, sitting in the electricity chair, said to the guardian: I am so afraid, would you hold my hand?
How old are you?

I don't know it changes every year.
Two guys were arguing about what to drink. One says milk other says coffee. Then they agreed "If the first passer is male we
will drink milk, else if it is female we will drink coffee"
A gay passed and they drunk milky coffee
Translations from Turkish
vulture June 9th, 2003, 07:47 PM

Saddam Hoessein is driven through the outskirts of baghdad in his limo when suddenly a pig crosses the street. The driver
can't avoid it and runs it over. Saddam tells his driver to retrieve to corpse and to compensate the owners. So, the driver walks
off, looking for the owners.
1 hour passes, no driver.
2 hours pass, no driver.
3 hours pass, still no driver.
After four hours the driver comes back, totally drunk, clothes al wrinkled, lipstick all over his face.
What the fuck happened to you? Saddam screams? I don't know, says, the driver, I found the owners and when I told them
what happened they started a party, served their best wine and their 19 year old daughter made wild passionate love to me.
What on earth did you tell them? Saddam asks?
Well, erh, let me see ... it was something like "I am the driver of Saddam Hoessein and I killed the pig"
Tuatara June 25th, 2003, 05:46 AM

I was cogitating on the way words can change their meaning over time, like 'bonus' used to be a rude word, and 'gay' used to
mean happy.
Well ' faggot' used to mean 'a bundle of firewood'.

So witches would be sentenced to 'Burn on a pile of oiled faggots!'
What sort of image does that conjure up today?
yt2095 June 25th, 2003, 06:30 AM

on a similar theme the diffenet meaning between words in USA and the UK
uk: "fag" =cigarette

uk: "bumming" is anal sex as opposed to USA: to being idle, or scrounging
uk: "Lift" USA: elevator etc..
so if you were caught bumming a fag in a lift, i wonder if you`de get strange looks from people in the lobby?
Bitter July 8th, 2003, 11:53 AM

This (http://alexkidd.com/show_comments.php3?name=camera%20j) isn't really a joke, but I thought it was bloody hillarious.
Especially after you've listened to it for five minutes.
yt2095 July 8th, 2003, 12:01 PM

ROFLOL.
ok, back at ya....
go onto google search, type in the search box "french military victories"
then click the [i feel lucky] button.
i could say more... but i`m not going to :P
frogfot July 8th, 2003, 06:51 PM

Huh, heres what i made while waiting for my NG to neutrolise:
http://www30.brinkster.com/frogfot/stuff/frog.wmv
EDIT: Oh, copy and paste the link. (btw, the video have sound too, dont forget to turn up the speakers.. :) )
chemwarrior July 8th, 2003, 07:03 PM

Hmm, your link doesnt seem to work...
Edit- Thanks for the fix.

Ok Frogfot that was just weird, nice animation though :p

Now this is really weird:
www30.brinkster.com/frogfot/stuff/sklizozator_0001.wmv (copy&past)
I made this crap whole night, it consists of 130 secuences... :eek: ..oh, it's 3:40 AM here, so i probably gonna sleep now.. :o
xyz July 13th, 2003, 07:52 AM

Check this out, it makes new names for people (no, I didn't make it)
http://www.gliebster.com/stuff/name-o-matic/
nbk2000 and green beret both have rather embarassing new names (nbk can simply type in "nbk" instead of "nbk2000" to
get a more accurate description of himself)
IPN July 13th, 2003, 10:01 AM

I didn't know that I'm a dynamic mastermind :D

Be aware of Foolish Demon :D
What algorithm do those things have? I've seen similar thing that generated hobbit names :P
Btw, i like this: frog = Violent Conqueror

my forum name it the "Drunk Shellfisherman" or my real it "Midnight Desporodo"
kingspaz July 13th, 2003, 07:01 PM

ahahahah...i'm a Drunken Hunter :D
god knows how it got that from kingspaz :confused:
Tuatara July 13th, 2003, 08:54 PM

My online name got me 'Pesty Beggar', my real name got me 'Violent Wizard'.
Well done XYZ, a most amusing link!

Hehe, Im either 'Shrieking Scholar' or 'Phantom Commander'
I like:D
Spudkilla July 14th, 2003, 01:03 AM

I am "Lazy-assed Overlord" with my real name, or "Expert observer" with my forum name.
Sarevok July 14th, 2003, 02:07 AM

I am Intellectual Menace with "Sarevok" and Fearless Genius with my real name.
The name of my father gives Mad Demon. Its damn right.
"Adolf Hitler" gives Fearless Artist. He was a painter.

"Alexander the Great" gives Irate Contender.
"George Bush" gives Excessive Bandit.
"Jesus Christ" gives Respected Bandit.
"Bill Gates" gives Money-Grubbing Bastard.
"Timothy McVeigh" gives Respected Menace.
"Jehovah" gives Mighty Dominator.
Enough! I'm scared.
Anthony July 14th, 2003, 02:58 PM

I notice many people have plugged in their real name and posted the result, I wonder how easy it would be to reverse the
algorithm to reveal your real names? :)
Sonny Jim July 14th, 2003, 03:35 PM

Well, it is debateable as to whether McVeigh is respected.
Nihilist July 14th, 2003, 06:26 PM

I don't think the algorithim can be reversed(at least not to one single name) seeing as it has produced the same name for
different inputs.
Cyclonite July 19th, 2003, 09:17 AM

Spudkilla my forum name is Expert observer also, strange.
blindreeper July 19th, 2003, 09:41 AM

Fourm name I am the amazing engineer - w00t
Real name I am the beloved technician.
BTW I enterd "beloved technician" and ended up with master knight :confused:
I_am_the_Black_one July 22nd, 2003, 06:05 PM

Real name:Cyber Mercenary
Black_one:Respected Overlord
I_am_the_Black_one:Insane Thong
john howard:Crazy Magician
Britney spears:Gentlemen Demon
Hanson:Arrogant Beggar
savage garden:Smiling Dominator
ICP:Pink Ambassador (Ambassador for fags maybe?)
This thing would be very good at harvesting words for use in a Meta wordlist....
EDIT: ohh I gotta add this I put in my name with my middle name in it and got:Fearless Dyper cmon try not to laugh
hey I said NOT to laugh:mad:
Flake2m July 23rd, 2003, 04:59 AM

My real name: The shrieking thong :eek:. Why did I have to get such a crap name?
Nickname: Virtual Conqueror. This name is bit better.
I enter my full name into the generator and I got: Drunken Scholar
a_bab July 23rd, 2003, 06:48 AM

Well, the generator it's a funny thing, of course, but the algorithm I guess pulls out a name from a DB accordingly to a
number generated from the decimal values of the name letters (and maybe numbers) within a certain range.
The problem is IF the inputs are logged :(
I_am_the_Black_one July 23rd, 2003, 10:28 AM

My point exactly maybe we should lay off the toy for a little wile?
Bring on the jokes..........
It seems that some patients needing blood transfusions may benefit from receiving chicken blood rather than human blood.
It tends to make the men cocky and the women lay better... Just thought you'd like to know
While I was "flying" down the road yesterday (i.e. 4 km/h over the limit), I passed over a bridge only to find cop with a radar
gun on the other side Laying in wait. The cop pulled me over, walked up to the car, and with that classic patronizing smirk we
all know and love, asked, "What's your hurry?"
To which I replied, "I'm late for work."
Oh yeah," said the cop, "what do you do?"
"I'm a rectum stretcher," I responded.
The cop stammered, "A what? A rectum stretcher? And just what does a rectum stretcher do?"
"Well," I said, "I start by inserting one finger, then I work my way up to two fingers, then three, then four, then with my whole
hand in I work side to side until I can get both hands in, and then I slowly but surely stretch, until it's about 6 foot wide."
"And just what the hell do you do with a 6 foot asshole?"
To which I politely replied, "You give him a radar gun and park him behind a bridge....."
One hot July day we found an old straggly cat at our door. She was a sorry sight. Starving, dirty, smelled terrible, skinny and
hair all matted down.
We felt sorry for her and put her in a carrier and took her to the vet. She had no name so we named her Pussycat.
The vet decided to keep her for a day or so and said he would let us know when we could come and get her.
My husband, [the complainer] said, "OK, but don't forget to wash her, she stinks."
My husband and my vet don't like each other. He calls my husband El-cheap-O. My husband calls him El-Take-0. They love to
hate each other.
Next day my husband had an appointment with his doctor, which was located next door to the vet. The doctor's office was full
of people waiting to see the doctor. A side door opened and in leaned the vet; he had obviously seen my husband arrive.
He looked straight at my husband, "Your wife's pussy is finally clean and shaved. She now smells like a rose. And by the way,
I think she's pregnant. God knows who the father is!" And he closed the door.
yt2095 July 23rd, 2003, 11:35 AM

a B-52 pilot with a single fighter escort flying on a long journey.
the fighter pilot starts to get a bit bored and does a few aerobatic tricks, the B-52 pilot radios him and asks if everything is
ok?
the reply, "sure, i`m just enjoying flying this super fine jet while your stuck in that crate flying slow". he says i`ll bet you can`t
do this, the fighter pilot did a spin then assumed his correct formation.
well this went on for some time, the B-52 pilot was getting a bit annoyed when the fighter pilot said "anything you can do I can
do better!"
at this point the B-52 pilot said "Ok, it`s a deal, watch this"
the fighter pilot watched...and waited ..and watched....
perplexed the fighter pilot radioed "ok, so what did you do???"
the B-52 pilot radioed back "we just turned 2 of our engines off, your call" :D
I_am_the_Black_one July 23rd, 2003, 02:39 PM

I havent laughed that hard in ages...
An oldie but a goldie
The Smiths had no children and decided to use a proxy father to start their family. While Mr. Smith could accept the fact that
another man would make love to his wife to impregnate her, he didn't want to be around during 'the deed'.
On the day the proxy father was to arrive, Mr. Smith kissed his wife and said, "I'm off. The man should be here soon."
Half an hour later, just by chance, a door-to-door baby photographer rang the doorbell, hoping to make a sale. "Good
morning madam. You don't know me but I've come to. . . . "
"Oh, no need to explain, I've been expecting you," Mrs. Smith cut in.
"Really?" the photographer asked. "Well, good! I've made a specialty of babies."
"That's what my husband and I had hoped. Please come in and have a seat. Just where do we start?" asked Mrs. Smith,
blushing.
"Leave everything to me. I usually try two in the bathtub, one on the couch and perhaps a couple on the bed. Sometimes the
living room floor is fun too; you can really spread out."
"Bathtub, living room floor? No wonder it didn't work for Harry and me."
"Well, madam, none of us can guarantee a good one every time. But if we try several different positions and I shoot from six
or seven angles, I'm sure you'll be pleased with the results."
"I hope we can get this over with quickly," gasped Mrs. Smith.
"Madam, in my line of work, a man must take his time. I'd love to be in and out in five minutes, but you'd be disappointed
with that, I'm sure."
"Don't I know!!" Mrs. Smith exclaimed.
The photographer opened his briefcase and pulled out a portfolio of his baby pictures. "This was done on the top of a bus in
downtown London."
"Oh my god!!" Mrs. Smith exclaimed, tugging at her handkerchief.
"And these twins turned out exceptionally well when you consider their mother was so difficult to work with." The photographer
handed Mrs. Smith the picture.
"She was difficult ?" asked Mrs. Smith.
"Yes, I'm afraid so. I finally had to take her to Hyde Park to get the job done right. People were crowding around four and five
deep, pushing to get a good look."
"Four and five deep?" asked Mrs. Smith, eyes widened in amazement.
"Yes", the photographer said. "And for more than three hours too. The mother was constantly squealing and yelling. I could
hardly concentrate. Then darkness approached and I began to rush my shots. Finally, when the squirrels began nibbling on my
equipment, I just packed it all in."
Mrs. Smith leaned forward. "You mean they actually chewed on your, eh . . . equipment?"
"That's right. Well madam, if you're ready, I'll set up my tripod so that we can get to work."
"Tripod??", Mrs. Smith looked extremely worried now.
"Oh yes, I have to use a tripod to rest my Canon on. It's much too big for me to hold while I'm getting ready for action.
Madam? Madam? . . . Good Lord, she's fainted!!"
Al Nobel July 24th, 2003, 07:40 PM

I`m the Jolly Killer :D .
Imperial July 26th, 2003, 06:24 AM

Why do people shit in the gutters in Australia?
So the Abos can have breakfast in bed!
A boy walks up to his father and goes "Dad, are we Abo or Jews?" the father goes "Well I am an abo, my father was abo and
my grandfather was an abo!" So then the boy goes to his mother and asks "are we Abos or Jews?" she goes "well my mum
was a Jew and her mum was a Jew." So then the mother asks "Why do you want to know?" and the boy goes "There is a bike
down the road. I was wondering if I should steal it for myself or steal it and sell it to someone?"
What do you call an abo in a car?

A thief.
What about an abo in a good car?
A good thief.
And a bunch of abos in a van?
Organised crime.
How do you teach a dumb blonde math?

You subtract the clothes, divide the legs, give her a square root and hope she doesn't multiply.
Why did the abo cross the road?

A liquor store was across road from the bank he just robbed!
LOL I am not posting my real name, because I am sure someone will find a way to reverse it!
For this forum name, I got Tough Genius. For another forum name which features my first real name I got Insane Assassin,
and Shrieking Demon for what I used to use!
zeocrash July 27th, 2003, 07:52 AM

http://www.righto.com/anarchy/random.html
it's every crapbook rolled into one
Imperial July 27th, 2003, 11:41 AM

LOL That one is always good for a laugh.
An excellent thing which isn't *really* a joke is this thread in Banned for Life. It's freaking funny!
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1499
Just this whole mention of crapbooks reminded me of the kewl who got banned there!
I_am_the_Black_one July 27th, 2003, 06:56 PM

Could one possibly get dumber?
I remember that post I almost wet my self reading it.
(Start shizzloater) Yo cuz cheak out the bomb Azz

Shizzolator (http://asksnoop.com/). Yo Cuz get you dumb black ass ofer ther and ask snoop. (END Shizzolator)
Not really funny.....
But try loading a porn page :D
The Hun ECT
Tuatara August 8th, 2003, 01:58 AM

What did the snail say when he went for a ride on the back of a tortoise?
" Wheeeeeeee! "

-----------------------------------------------
What do you call a cow without legs?
A Ranch Slider
----------------------------------------------
A young guy is walking through the park one day, when a frog calls out to him.
" If you kiss me I'll turn into a beautiful woman"
The guy stops, picks up the frog, puts her in his pocket, and continues his walk. Later he takes the frog out for a look and the
frog says
"Kiss me and not only will I turn into a beautiful woman, I promise to be your girlfriend too!"
Without a word the guy stuffs the frog back in his pocket and continues walking.
Later still, he takes the frog out again. This time the frog puts on her most pleading expression and says
"Oh please kiss me ! I'm really beautiful, I'll marry you and stay with you forever. I'll clean and cook and wash you socks! I'll
fill your nights with passion! Oh why wont you kiss me?"
The guy looks at the frog for a moment, then replies
"Sorry, I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend. But a talking frog is cool!"
Anthony August 8th, 2003, 02:22 PM

Two muffins are sitting in an oven. First muffin says to second muffin "hot in here ain't it?", second muffin screams "OH MY
GOD! A TALKING MUFFIN!"
:)
vulture August 8th, 2003, 04:44 PM

Some kewl mockery of mine:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=166&page=1#pid7960
knowledgehungry August 8th, 2003, 06:59 PM

Oh sure rub it in our faces that we arent cool and great like you vulture since we dont have the password to get in it, that hurts
my feelings.
kingspaz August 8th, 2003, 07:25 PM

knowledgehungry, i think he forgot that everyone who isn't a member would not know the password. he wouldn't go out of his
way to cause trouble.

Yes i was well aware of that, i was just letting him know in a humourous(attempted) manner that we cant see it, so if he
wanted to copy and paste or something he could.
chemwarrior August 8th, 2003, 08:00 PM

Written by Vulture-
Kewl Mockery
I decided to enlighten you all with some of my kewl recipies....
Number one:
Everybody who has worked with nitric acid has seen the yellow stains it creates on your skin. This is actually nitrated amino
acid. Nitrated amino acids created by nitric acid burns are not explosive, however, there is an explosive variant which I will
describe here:
You need:
-Your skin (the more surface area the better! Callanetics die!)
- fuming nitric acid
- oleum (H2SO4 with dissolved SO3)
- nitric acid resistant swimming trousers (unless you also want to prepare nitrogenitals)
- large ice bath
- 30% Hydrogen peroxide (60% is even better)
- (para)formaldehyde
1) desinfect yourself with the mixture of (para)formaldehyde and hydrogen peroxide. If you can not get (para)formaldehyde
you can also do it with only the hydrogen peroxide.
2)Prepare the nitrating mixture by adding the sulfuric acid to the nitric acid.
3)prepare the ice bath, undress(don't forget the swimming trousers unless...) and submerge yourself in it. If you want it done
properly, you can totally submerge and provide oxygen for yourself by dropping some sand in the hydrogen peroxide and lead
a tube to your mouth.
Wait till your body temperature is 30C.
4)Let someone else pour the nitrating mix over you but beware of runaway nitration, this could cause a spontaneous orgasm
to occur.
5)Wait till your skin has turned from yellow to brown, it should have become a blurry mess now. You can predict succesful
nitration with the following rule: The more it hurts, the better you get nitrated.
6) after the nitration process has completed, step out of the icebath and scrape of a little skin of your thighs. Test if it will
burn.
To detonate nitroskin, cover yourself with AP or HMTD gelatine and stick a fuse up your ass, again, there is a risk of
spontaneous orgasm while doing this!
Other options are:
-run as fast as possible against a wall
- take a fast mofo car and drive against a wall
- ask a nasty mofo to drive against you with his fast mofo car while your standing against a wall
Warning: You will have to detonate nitroskin within the next week, otherwise a process known as healing will cause the product
to dissappear. However, the byproducts of nitroskin destruction are nitropiss and nitrosweat which are also explosives, but are
highly unstable.
If you suffer from any skin disease like eczema or worms, do not try this! Nitroskizema detonates spontaneously!
Blow shit up!
Number two:
If you've been experimenting with nitroskin and have left it to decompose, you've probably experienced the notorious
instability of nitropiss. This text will describe how to prepare nitroshit, a stable excretion explosive product.
You will need:

- shit (dog shit, human shit, kewl shit, pig shit,...)
- saltpeter or ammoniumnitrate fertilizer
- your piss
- your sperm
1) find a pile of dog shit

2) if no dog shit is present, crouch into a squatting position.
3) Wether you believe in yin-yang, feng shui, acupuncture, masturbation or anarchy, focus you energy on your ass.
4) Press hard.
5) The pleasant smell of fresh can't-wait-to-be-nitrated shit should welcome you now.
6) Prepare the nitrating mixture by pissing into a beaker of fertilizer solution.
7) Pour the mixture over the pile of shit.
Since sperm is a vital catalyst in this reaction, masturbate over the pile of shit or ask a passing "eva" to jerk you off.
9) Spit on the pile of shit with regular intervals to control temperature. If runaway nitration occurs, not only are you going to
smell and yell shit, you're also going to feel it.
Nitroshit is friction and flame unsensitive, but can easily be detonated by pressure. Therefore it's an ideal terrorist and
anarchist explosive, making "Blow shit up" reality.
If you wan't explosive nitroshit gelly I suggest you wait until you suffer from diarrhoea, this way no extra gel will be required.
Blow shit up!

I wrote an article on the nitration of felines once. It was brilliant, i discovered why no one else could succesfully nitrate a cat!
It's because they used a water bath when preparing the nitrofeline, and as we all know felines react nastily with water, you end
up with a nitrating cat running away, or a runaway nitration. See but if you use a dry ice bath youll be fine. I just made up a
chemical rascist joke! What did God say when he made the second black man? Whoops, spilled KMnO4 on another
one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROFL, that shizzolator is killing me!
Only da ignorant 'n uninformed fear knowledge, unfortunately that describes da majority of muthas, know what I'm sayin'?
Science has no right or wrong, only its use does n' shit. The only immorality is da fear perpetuated by da media, 'n da
stupidity of da censors n' shit. Rogue Science is here expose da secrets of science fo' izzall who wish learn, know what I'm
sayin'?
Let that shiznit be known we do not condone any of da knowledge at Rogue Science be used beyond personal
experimentation."
Rogue Science Links Engine - Visit izzle comprehensive link database now! The database is fully searchable, has detailed
descriptions, lists wass new 'n bomb diggity, 'n yo' ass can submit yo' own collection of links!
Sorry 'bout da link bro....
:D
Someone try and shizzolate my kewl recipes? I don't dear because I'm afraid it will kill me...
Efraim_barkbit August 10th, 2003, 08:58 PM

This shizzolator made me think about some shit going on in sweden as well as I believe it is happening all around the western
world.
its become fucking "cool" that white kids dress up in large fucking pices of trash and talks with a fake foreign accents,
listening to music(thats at least what THEY are calling it) about how good it is to live in the ghetto, dealing drugs and getting
social security money etc... These kids are the future of the country... scary, isnt it..
Another thing, at least here in Sweden, is that nationalism, in many peoples eyes have become a synonym for national
socialism and racism. Critisism against immigrants/immigration politics
= "you are a nazi" written in big text on your forehead... (espescially if you are a politician)
to my self:
SHUT UP before anyone gets pissed..Its supposed to be a thread about jokes,, come on funny stuff, not this shit..
</pissed off mode>
I heard these yesterday:
How do you tell the difference between a nigger and a monkey?

give them a banana each, and the one who pics it up with its feet is the monkey
how do you kill 50 flies in one blow?

hit a somalian in the head with a shovel
An American, a Englishman and a Swede were sitting in a bar drinking beer and having fun, bragging about different
things.The Englishman says,
-if we were to send all ships in England out on the ocean at the same time, there would be so many ships out there so there
wouldnt be any waves on the whole sea.
The American says,
-Ohh thats nothing, if we Americans were to send up every plane in the US at the same time, they would be so close that the
sun wouldnt be able to reach to the ground. Then the Swede says,
-every morning when I get outside to take a piss in the fresh morning breeze, there comes three seagulls and sits on my
"thing".
The Englishman, when he hears the Swede, understand that they understood that he might have exagerated a bit.
-well, he says, the ships would not really be that close, of course there would still be waves on the sea..
the American said, having thought the same as the Englishman,
-well.. I also have to admit, of course there will still be sunlight, if we send up all the planes at once, even though we have a
lot of them.
then the Swede says, Theyre not really that close..
(every thing translated from swedish, so it probably sucks)
BTW Knowledgehungry, Im very interesed in that NitroCat article:D
nbk2000 August 10th, 2003, 11:24 PM

Whiggers (White Niggers) is the term for what you're describing. There's plenty of them were I live at. Oh, and Eminem wanna-
be's too. :rolleyes:
I once had a couple of them say "Keep it gansta'!" to me, in a mocking way, while I was at work. If they only knew who they
were saying that to. :D

I've been amusing myself by raping well known acronyms:
CIA =
Collective Incompetence Assembly
Collective Idiot Amnesty
Collective Idiot Assignment
Completely Idiotic Artifacts
Concentrated Iodine Assay
Completely Irrelevant Association
NSA =
National Stupidity Assembly
National Socialists Assembly :eek:
FBI =
Four Busted Idiots
Festivity Beer Inside
Feeble Beast Inside
Federal Blunt Idiots
Fat Butt Incision
Father Bubbas Incarnation
Fake Boobies Inside (imagine a female FBI officer wearing the T-shirt with the FBI logo :D)
FEMA = Feebly Emancipated Mothers Association
SWAT =
Sweating Worthless Asshole Team
Special Weener Action Time
LAPD =
Losers Allied Per Decrete
NYPD =
New Youth Pacifying Division
DMV =
Disabled Moron Version
DHS = (Department of Homeland Security)

Disabled Homeless Suckers
Detrimental Hooker Services
Disabled Hooligan Soccer
NAVY =
Natural Aversion Versus Youngsters
USAF =
Useless Service Aviation Fleet
Undeniable Special Action Fuckup
Unidentified Species Attacks Freedom
FireFly August 18th, 2003, 12:14 PM

Q What do you call a woman with one black eye?
A Hard of hearing!
Q What do you call a woman with two black eyes?

A Fucking deaf!
Q Why do all women love Jesus?

A Stand up, extend arms, then say "because he's hung like this!"
Mosses and Jesus were fishing in a boat when Mosses says, "you know I can still part water," Jesus says, "no you can't your to
old," with that Mosses stands up, raises his cane and the water parts, he drops the cane and it goes back down. Jesus looks
with awe and says, "well you know I can still walk on water," Mosses laughs and says no you can't! With that Jesus steps off
the boat and sinks like a rock. Mosses reaches in and pulls him up, laughing he says "don't you remember you've got holes in
your feet now dumb ass?"
Three blondes are walking in the woods when they come to a set of tracks, one blonde says "look rabbit tracks," the second
blonde says, "no, those are deer tracks," and the third blondes says, "your both wrong those are bear tracks." They were still
arguing when the train hit them.
~NP
Mortis Lupus August 18th, 2003, 02:55 PM

I am passing this on to you because it has definitely worked for me. By
following the simple advice I read in an article, I have finally found
inner peace........ It read:
"The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've
started."
So I looked around to see all the things I started and hadn't finished....
Today I have finished off a bottle of vodka, a bottle of red wine, a

bottle of Jack Daniel's, my Prozac, a small box of chocolates , 2 litres
of Stella Artois and a handful of valium ..............
You have no idea how good I feel....
per August 19th, 2003, 04:24 PM

shizzolator was a funny link thanks for that one :) and some jokes to keep this topic running
1.whats the difference between a blonde and HIV?
HIV develops
2. millions jews cant have wrong camps aint fun
argh cant come up with any jokes right now when im trying to :)
Efraim_barkbit August 23rd, 2003, 07:37 PM

Are you "pyro pure (http://www.armory.com/tests/pyro.html) "?
a shitload of other tests here (http://www.armory.com/tests/purity.html)

it also contains a explanation on how to read the results
Sam September 1st, 2003, 06:38 AM

Heres some a friend told me:
1. Why do more niggers get hit by cars in winter?
They are easier to see
2. Why are niggers getting stronger?
TVs are getting heavier.

THErAPIST September 1st, 2003, 07:36 AM

iI dont think any of these have been thrown out yet soo...
whats the difference between a dead dog and a dead nigger lying in the middle of the road?
the dog has tire marks leading up to it
what do you call a mexican at the bottom of the ocean?

a good start
why'd the blonde jump offa the building?

her maxipad said it had wings
what do you call a woman with pms and esp?

a bitch who knows everything
Why do pill bottles always have cotton in them?

to remind niggers that they picked cotton before they sold drugs
The other cop joke reminded me about this...
I was comin home one day and a cop pulled me over. When the cop got to my window I asked him if he was writing me a
ticket. He just kind of looked at me and then said "YES". I was like "oh... it's nice of you to give me a ticket to the state
trooper party thet you're having". Again he looked at me funny and then said "What?" and I said "The ball! I was just sayin
thanks for invinting me to the ball" The cop stared at me for a second with a half ass confused look on his face and then said
"What are you talking about?! State troopers don't have balls!" To this I replied "Oh really?! You guys don't?! God your wives
must hate that!". After Saying this, the cop stared at me for a few seconds with a strange twisted up kind of face, then turned
around, walked back to his car, got in, and drove off.
Tuatara September 1st, 2003, 05:33 PM

Why is PMS called PMS?
"Mad Cow Disease" was already taken.
vulture September 2nd, 2003, 05:37 PM

Q:What's the difference between a woman with PMS and a terrorist?
A: You can negotiate with a terrorist.
http://www.manzonderkop.be/Post/?P_ID=837 funny movie
angelo September 2nd, 2003, 09:14 PM

what's the difference between a aboriginal womans pussy and a cricket ball?
you'd think about eating the cricketball
(translated for you americans)

Whats the difference between a nigga's pussy and football?
You'd think about eating the football
Nihilist September 3rd, 2003, 08:07 PM

Why aren't there any niggers in the flintstones?
They were still monkeys.
Why are there so many trees in harlem?
Public transportation.
What do you do when you see a one-legged nigger?
Stop and reload.
What do you call one nigger at the bottom of the ocean?
Pollution.
What do you call 1,000,000 niggers at the bottom of the ocean?
Solution.
xyz September 4th, 2003, 08:19 AM

As well as the shizzolator, check this out: Da Ali G Translator (http://www.mackers.com/alig)
"By declaring all chemistry as drug manufacturing" becomes

"by declarin all chemistry as erbal remedy manufacturin"
EDIT: ear me now, dis is da rogue science website, westside of da explosives and weapons forum. we is dedicated to spreadin
rare, unusual, and controversial scientific information. rogue science as bin created to borrow serious considetarion to such
topics as explosives, poisons, chemical weapons, improvised weapons, and related scientific topics. dis site is primarily
intended fa amateur scientists, but we ear me now, dis is all manna of professionals, or da mildly curious. only da ignorant
and uninformed fear knowledge, unfortutanely dat describes da majority of people. science as no right or wrong, only its use
does. da only immorality is da fear perpetuated by da media, and da stupidity of da censors. rogue science is in da house to
expose da secrets of science fa all who wish to learn. let it be known we do not condone any of da knowledge at rogue science
to be used beyond personal experimentation. there is pigss to be followed in da use of explosives, weapons, and azardous
chemical substances. rogue science is not da place fa learnin about buildin bombs, weapons of mass destruction, or any udda
device meant to arm udders. it is da spirit of da free exchange of information dat drives rogue science. in previous decades,
main mans were encouraged to undertake scientific research in their own labs. da us government freely distritubed bit of
papers relatin to radioactive materials, westside and farm use of explosives, and udda azardous materials. dis attitude is
quite different in da 21st century. chemical suppliers rarely borrow to main mans anymore, information is jealously oarded or
restricted to professionals, and only corporations is considered 'worthy' of conductin research. da government now enforces fear
and propaganda towards those who dare to learn science on their own by declarin all chemistry as erbal remedy manufacturin
or bomb buildin. evun chemistry sets is worthless today, bein limited to makin goo or cola changes. all dat which once was
perfectly acceptable is now ostracized. rogue science challenges these misconceptions by givin voice to those brave few few
who dare to learn.
pyroluc September 4th, 2003, 09:11 AM

http://www.langleyscouting.ca/lightnup/images/bombsqua.jpg
vulture September 4th, 2003, 11:44 AM

Bad fake actually, he doesn't have any gloves...still funny though.
GibboNet September 5th, 2003, 12:24 AM

I thought they didn't wear gloves, so that they had better sense of feel while dealing with sensitive explosive mechanisms.
Maybe that's why.
I may be mistaken of course, I can't recall where I read that.
Tuatara September 5th, 2003, 01:32 AM

That pic reminds me of one of the power electronics Co's I worked for. Standing joke was to slam a cupboard door just as
someone turned something on. I caught a dozen guys at once with that one - they nearly died of fright, I nearly died
laughing.
nbk2000 September 5th, 2003, 02:06 AM

Bomb techs can't wear gloves because they need the dexterity to deal with devices. Though, if the device goes
off...:eek:...Captain Hook time! :D
If the device in the picture went off, suit or not, dude would be pink mist. Suits are only suitable for pipe bombs and grenades.
Things like artillery and mortar shells, aerial bombs, and other large sized military ordance, forget it.
BTW, that picture was posted a couple years ago, so it's an oldie but a goodie. :)
If it was real, the guy working the bomb would either shit himself or pass out, and the guy with the bag would be unemployed.
Though maybe they'd be pink mist if he timed it right as the tech was cutting the red wire. :D
Chemical_burn September 7th, 2003, 03:03 AM

I remember seeing this on a friends computer it had a little caption under it that read:
What is a sonofabitch?
shows pic.
That fokes is a sonofabitch.
At first I didn't noticed the guy with the bag then I did LOL :D I couldn't stop laughin one of my friends couldn't figure out what
was so funny till I pointed it out.
:D I still giggle when I see that pic.
Desmikes September 7th, 2003, 08:59 PM

Small apartment. Man and his wife went to bed and as soon as the lights go out the husband starts the foreplay.
Wife: Honey, I don t think our son is as leep
Man (loudly): Hey son, are you asleep? could you bring me some water?
-no answer
its a ll go od sa ys the man and carries on with the DEED
20 minutes later they he ar frus trated voice fro m above How much longer am I s u p p o s ed to ho ld your damn water?
A cruise ship is sinking fast. Everybody is in panic running around, and yelling. One of the freaked out passengers runs to the
captain and asks: How far away is the closest earth?
Capt: 2km
Which way is that?
-Straight down
Would you like to have magical/fairytale love?

-How is that
I ll fuck you and disapp ear
Why is aspirin white?

Because it works
How do you keep a nigger away from your backyard?

Hang one up in your front porch
Check out this one: http://users.dslextreme.com/~wolfstone/pyro/TOOTHPASTE.txt
Sonny Jim September 8th, 2003, 03:53 PM

Why do Pakkies smell?
So blind people can hate them too.
FCUK September 9th, 2003, 05:46 PM

Anny, Danny, and Fanny go out clubbing every week trying to pull some young gents, but to no avail.
So, one night in the club, Anny shouts above the music, "I think it's our hair!"
So, back to work they go for the week, saving their money to get their hair done. Pay day comes and off they go to get their
hair done.
That night down at the club, no one even notices Anny, Danny and Fanny.
Danny pipes up saying that it must be there clothes, so they all decide to save up their wages to buy some new clothes.
Meanwhile Anny goes to the bar and upon coming back notices how big Danny's and Fanny's feat are. Saying to them both
"Cor, your two's feat ain't half big!" Danny replys, "Mine are a size 8, what's your's Anny?"
To which Anny replys, "A size 8, what's yours Fanny?" "A size 14" Reply's Fanny. They have a few more drinks and return
home.
Finally, pay day comes and out they all go to find some new clothes for the club. They buy the clothes they want and go home
to get changed.
Later Anny and Danny recieve a phone call from Fanny, Fanny says to them both, "I'm not feeling well at all, I'm not going out
tonight, you two go without me."
Upset Anny and Danny dress up, do their hair, and go out on the town to see if they can pull.
They get to the club and soon as they walk in the door, two strapping young lads walk up to Anny and Danny, they look them
both up and down and they reply, "Cor! Your's two feet are massive! How big are they?"
To which Anny reply's, "I'm a size 9" And Danny says "I'm a size 8, but if your think OUR feet are big, you ought to see our
Fannys!"
Kind of a long winded joke, but I thought it was funny either way! :)
Sonny Jim September 13th, 2003, 06:27 AM

What do you do to Jews with an attention span disorder?
Send them to a concentration camp.
serene September 13th, 2003, 10:46 AM

whats the difference between an orange and a baby?
you dont cum in the orange before you eat it
TopBrick404 September 13th, 2003, 05:42 PM

Two boss jokes
A couple was invited to a swanky Halloween Party. She got a terrible headache and told her husband to go to the party alone.
He being a devoted husband, protested, but she argued and said she was going to take an aspirin and go to bed, and no
need for his good time to be spoiled by not going. So he took his costume and away he went. The wife after sleeping soundly
for an hour awakened without pain and as it was still early, she decided to go to the party. Her husband didn't know what her
costume was. She thought she would have some fun by watching her husband to see how he would act when she wasn't with
him. She joined the party and soon spotted her husband cavorting around the dance floor, dancing with every nice chick he
could, and cropping a little feel here and a little kiss there. His wife sided up to him and being a rather seductive babe herself,
he left his partner high and dry and devoted his time to the new stuff that had just arrived. She had let him go as far as he
wished, naturally, since he was her husband. Finally he whispered a little proposition in her ear and she agreed, so off they
went to one of the cars and had a little quickie. In fact two. Just before unmasking at midnight, she slipped away and went
home and put the costume away and got back into bed wondering what kind of explanation he would make for his behavior.
She was sitting up reading when he came in. She asked what kind of time he had. He said "Oh, the same old thing. You know
I never have a good time when you're not there." Then she asked, "Did you dance much?" He replied, "I'll tell you, I never
danced one dance. When I got there I met Pete, Bill, and Paul and some other guys, so we went into the den to play poker all
evening. But you're not going to believe what happened to the guy I loaned my costume to!!!!!!!"
Johnny was 8 years old and like other boys his age rather curious. He had been hearing quite a bit about 'courting' from the
older boys, and he wondered what it was and how it was done. One day he took his question to his mother, who became rather
flustered.
Instead of explaining things to Johnny, she told him to hide behind the curtains one night and watch his older sister and her
boyfriend. This he did. The following morning, Johnny described EVERYTHING to his mother. "Sis and her boyfriend sat and
talked for a while, then he started kissing and hugging herI figured 'Sis must be getting sickbecause her face started looking
funny. He must have thought so too, because he put his hand inside her blouse to feel her heart, just > the way the doctor
would. Except he's not as smart as the docotr because he seemed to have trouble finding her heart. I guess he was getting
sick too, because pretty soon both of them started panting and getting all out of breath. His other hand must have been cold
because he put it under her skirt. About this time 'Sis got worse and began to moan and sigh and squirm around and slide
down toward the end of the couch. This was when her fever started. I knew it was a fever, because Sis told him she felt really
hot. Finally, I found out what was making them so sick -- a big eel had gotten inside his pants somehow. It just jumped out of
his pants and stood there, about 10 inches long, honest, anyway he grabbed it in one hand to keep it from getting away.
When Sis saw it, she got really scared -- her eyes got big, and her mouth fell open, and she started calling out to God and
stuff like that. She said it was the biggest one she's ever seen; I should tell her about the ones down at the lake by our
house! Anyway, Sis got brave and tried to kill the eel by biting its head off. All of a sudden she grabbed it with both hands and
held it tight while he took a muzzle out of his pocket and slipped it over the eel's head to keep it from biting again. Sis lay
back and spread her legs so she could get a scissor-lock on it and he helped by lying on top of the eel. The eel put up a hell
of a fight. Sis started groaning and squealing and her boyfriend almost upset the couch. I guess they wanted to kill the eel by
squashing it between them. Her boyfriend got up, and sure enough, they killed the eel. I knew because it just hung there,
limp, and some of its insides were hanging out. Sis and her boyfriend were a little tired from the battle, but they went back to
courting anyway. He started hugging and kissing her again. By golly, the eel wasn't dead! It jumped straight up and started to
fight again. I guess eels are like cats -- they have nine lives or something. This time, Sis jumped up and tried to kill it by
sitting on it. After about a 35 minute struggle, they finally killed the eel. I knew it was dead, because I saw Sis's boyfriend
peel its skin off and flush it down the toilet.
T_Pyro October 16th, 2003, 03:42 AM

Sometimes, the net churns up some real gems when you're doing some serious research. Check out the following link, and
you'll see what I mean!
http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/freakisna/pyro/fires.html
"Kool"!
aikon October 21st, 2003, 12:44 PM

ok guys, this is my first joke in english. it's damn difficult to tell a joke in a foreign language:)
a 10 year old girl has a car crash with her family. dad is dead, mom is dead, brother is dead.
the seriously injured girl crawls out of the car and lurches into the forest next to the highway.
suddenly she meets a hunter. the girl says:" help me sir.please!my mom is dead, my dad is dead, my brother is dead. i need
medical assistence!"
the hunter pulls down his trousers and replies:" oh sweety, today is not your day"
IDTB October 21st, 2003, 01:51 PM

Nickname: Tough Genius
Real Name: Expert Lover.
Since when did technology allow such generators to be so accurate just from a name? ;)
xyz October 22nd, 2003, 08:22 AM

IDTB, I now know your first name, this is because the guy who made that site has the same first name as you and he set the
program to say "Expert Lover" when his name was put in. Don't worry though, I won't tell anyone. Just be more careful in the
future.
Anyway, Back on topic,
Why are Camels known as the ships of the desert?

Because they are full of Arab semen.
A guy walks into a bar and sees a hot chick sitting at the counter so he goes up to her and sits down. "What's your name?" he
asks, "Carmen" she replies. The guy says "That's a nice name, why did your parents call you that?", she says "Well, I like
Cars and I like Men so my parents called me Carmen", then she asks "What's your name?" and the guy replies "Beerpussy"
festergrump February 14th, 2004, 06:37 AM

A guy walks into a pawn shop and sees a small statue of a rat for sale. He asks the broker,"How much for the rat statue?".
"Well", replies the broker,"the statue is $20, but another $100 for the story behind it."
The man buys the statue for $20 bucks and walks out the shop. Five minutes later he notices three rats following him down
the sidewalk. He picks up his pace and looks behind him only to see fifteen rats now following him at a steady trod.
Breaking into a jog he glances over his shoulder only to find rats by the hundreds following his every move.
Suddenly he stops short of a lake and looking around him notices rats have come by the countless THOUSANDS.
The man takes the small statue and hurls it far into the lake and every last one of the rats follows the statue down to the
depths of the water to their certain demise.
Pondering the events that led himself into this situation, he returns to the pawn shop.
The pawnbroker smiles as he walks into the shop and asks, "Oh, you came back for the story?"
"No.", the man replies."I'm looking for a statue of Martin Luther King!"
__________________________________________________ ___________
A guy in a mask bursts into a sperm bank with a shotgun. "Open the safe," he yells at the girl behind the counter. "But we're
not a real bank," she replies. "We don't have any money; this is a sperm bank." "Don't you argue with me! Open the damn
safe or I'll blow your friggin' head off!" She obliges and once she's opened the safe door the guy says "Take out one of the
bottles and drink it." "But it's full of sperm!" she replies nervously. "Don't argue, just drink it" he says. She takes the cap off
and gulps it down.
"Take out another one and drink it too," he demands. She takes out another and drinks it as well. Suddenly the guy pulls off
the mask and, to the girl's amazement, it's her husband. "Not that fucking difficult, is it?"
__________________________________________________ _____________
On Christmas morning, a cop on horseback was sitting at a traffic light. Next to him was a kid on his shiny new bike.
The cop looked down and said to the kid, "Nice bike you got there. Did Santa bring that to you?"
The kid said, "Yeah!"
The cop said, "Well next year, tell Santa to put a tail light on it." The cop then proceeded to issue the kid a $20 bicycle safety
violation ticket.
The kid took the ticket, but before riding off he said, "By the way, that's a nice horse you got there. Did Santa bring that to
you?"
Humoring the kid, the cop said, "Yeah, he sure did."
The kid said, "Well next year tell Santa to put the dick underneath the horse, instead of on top."
__________________________________________________ ______________
A man goes to a public golf course. He approaches

the man behind the counter in the pro shop and says "I would
like 18 holes of golf and a caddie."
The man behind the counter says "The 18 holes of golf is no problem.
But all of the caddies are out on the course.
But what I will do for you is this.
We just got 7 brand new robot golf caddies.IF you're willing to take
one with you out on the course and you will come back
and tell me if they're efficient, your round of golf is on me today!"
The golfer obviously accepted the man's offer. The golfer approached
the first tee, looked at the fairway and says,"I think my driver will do
the job."
The robot caddie turned to the man and said"No sir. Use your 3 wood. A driver is far too much club for this hole."
Hesitantly, the golfer pulled out his 3 wood, made good contact with
the ball, and the ball landed about 10 feet from right in front of the
hole on the green. The golfer turned to the robot and thanked him for his
assistance. As the golfer pulled out his putter, he said "I think this green is
gonna break left to right." The robot then again spoke up
and said "No sir. I do believe this green will break right to left."
Having thought about the last time the robot corrected his prediction, he
decided again to listen to the machine. He made his put and birdied the
hole thanks to the robot and his advice. And his ! luck didn't end
there! His entire game was the best game he ever played thanks to the
assistance of the new robot golf caddie!
Upon returning to the Club House, the man behind the counter asked "How was your game?" The golfer stated "It was by
far,the BEST game I ever played. Thank you very much for letting me take one of your robots. See you next week!"
A week passed, and excited, the golfer returned to the pro shop. Upon entering the pro shop, he turned to the man behind
the counter and said "I would like 18 holes of golf and one of those robot golf caddies please!"
The gentleman from behind the counter turned to the man and said "Well,
the 18 holes is no problem. However, we had to get rid of the robots. We had too many complaints."
Confused, the golfer turned to the man and said"COMPLAINTS? Who in the
hell could've complained about those robots? They were incredible!"
The man continued to say, "Well, it wasn't their performance. It was that they were silver and the glare from their bodies was
blinding to other golfers on the fairway."
So the golfer said, "So then why didn't you just paint them black?"
The man said, "We did. 3 of 'em didn't show up for work and the other
4 robbed the pro shop!" :D
tiac03 February 15th, 2004, 03:11 AM

what's so good about having sex with twenty-eight year olds?
-There's 20 of them....
Whats the four toughest years of a black mans life?

-First grade
What Did the cuban do when he got a flat tire?

-Drown
dogbone103 February 15th, 2004, 05:05 AM

The girl that had three wishes.
Once their was a girl with three wishes, her first wish was to shower with her mother. When she was washing with her mother
she asked "mummy mummy what is that?" she replied "that is a forest honey, a forest" then she pointed to her tits and
a s k e d " m u m m y m u mmy what are those?" her mother rep lies they are "flashlights honey, flashlig hts." The girl s n ext wish
was to sh ower with her d ad. Whe n showering with he father she asks "da ddy daddy what is that" he replies a s n a k e h o ney a
snake" the girls last wish is to sleep in her mothers and fathers bed. When she was trying to get to sleep she see
somethin g and shouts m u m my mummy quick turn on the flas hlights the snake is going into the fores t" :D
T_Pyro February 24th, 2004, 02:06 AM

A short one:
Mary had a little lamb...

It was delicious.
Tuatara March 4th, 2004, 08:31 PM

Bruce, the Australian sheep farmer is on holiday in New Zealand. While there, he calls in on his old farming mate Trev, and the
two of them go off in Trev's ute for a tour of Trev's high country sheep station.
As they're heading up the south ridge Trev spies a ewe caught in the barbed wire fence at the bottom of a gully.
'Shit' thinks Trev,'this is too good to pass up' so he stops the ute, heads on down the gully, drops his trousers and has his
wicked way with the sheep. After finishing his business he zips up his trou and heads back to the ute.
"Crikey!" says an astonished Bruce, " Thats got to be the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in 20 years of farming."
"Oh really." says Trev. " Have you ever tried it? Bet you haven't! Go on, have a go - theres no one else here, and I wont tell."
Bruce is thoughtful for a moment - well, 'when in Rome' and all that...
So Bruce sets off down the gully to where the poor ewe is still struggling in the fence. He drops his trousers, tangles himself in
the fence, then calls back to Trev
"OK, I'm ready!"
---------------------------------------------------------
A big city lawyer has set off into the countryside for a spot of duck shooting.
BAM!BAM! and two fine ducks plummet earthwards, landing in a nearby farm paddock.
So he climbs the fence and heads into the paddock to retrieve his prize.
"Oi! Hands off my ducks!" yells the old farmer whose just come around the hill.
"No, they're my ducks" replies the lawyer " I just shot them!"
"Nah, mate" say the farmer " Local rules, see? My land, my ducks"
"No they're bloody not. I'll see you in court before I give up my ducks!"
"No need for that" says the farmer," we'll settle this the local way. I get to kick you twice, then you kick me twice, and so on
until one of us gives up."
The lawyer looks at this old farmer before him. 'This should be pretty easy' he thinks, and agrees to the contest.
"My land, so I'll go first" says the farmer. "ONE!" and lands a steel capped boot right in the lawyer's goolies. As he folds up in
agony ... "TWO!" and the second kick catches him full in the guts.
After a moment or two the lawyer manages to stand up, blinks away the tears, and gasps "Right, you bastard. My turn."
"Nah, I give up" says the farmer," You keep the ducks."
mesmashy March 24th, 2004, 09:04 AM

What do all the women in a battered wives home have in common ?
They wouldnt listen.
What should all women do after they leave a batterd wives home ?
The dishes if they know whats good for them.
What do you call a prostitute with no arms and no legs ?

A cash and carry :)
festergrump April 30th, 2004, 05:33 PM

Q: What do you call a TOTSE crapbook reading wanna-be paratrooper who packs his own chute?
A: A lawn dart.
Q: Why won't the military let women become paratroopers?

A: They whistle on the way down!
Tuatara May 2nd, 2004, 07:52 PM

A drunk wanders into a library, goes up to the desk and says
"I want two pieces of fish, and shum chips pleash!"
The librarian says, " Sir! This is a Library!"
"Shorry! I want two pieces of fish and shum chips, pleash!"
Flake2m May 2nd, 2004, 10:08 PM

Two Palastinian men are at a bustop talking. One of the men pulsl out his wallet and shows the other man the pictures of his
family "This is my oldest son, he's a martyr and this is my youngest son he's a martyr too" The first man says.
"Owwww, they blow up so young" replies the second man.
festergrump May 24th, 2004, 06:42 PM

Dr. Schlambaugh, a senior lecturer at the Chemical Engineering
Department, University of Oklahoma, is known for posing questions on
final exams like: "Why do airplanes fly?"
In May a few years ago, the "Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer " exam
paper contained the question:
"Is Hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof."
Most students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or

similar. One student, however, wrote the following:
First, we must postulate that if souls exist, they must have some mass.
If they do, then a mole of souls also must have a mass. So, at what rate
are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think
we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it does not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving.
As for souls entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that
exist in the world today. Some religions say that if you are not a
member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than
one of these religions, and people do not belong to more than one
religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to Hell. With
the birth and death rates what they are, we can expect the number of
souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of
change in the volume of Hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the
temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass
of the souls and volume needs to stay constant.
[Answer 1] So, if Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at

which souls enter Hell, then the temperature in Hell will increase until
all Hell breaks loose.
[Answer 2] Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the

increase in souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop
until Hell freezes over.
So which is it? If we accept the postulate (given to me by Teresa Banyan

during freshman year) that "it'll be a cold day in Hell before I sleep
with you", and taking into account that I still have not succeeded in
having sexual relations with her, then [Answer 2] cannot be correct;
...... thus, Hell is exothermic.
The student got the only A.
xyz May 27th, 2004, 06:07 AM

What does a blonde do when she wakes up in the morning?
Gets dressed and goes home.
A sandwich walks into a bar, the bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food in here"
A dyslexic man walks into a bra...
croc August 29th, 2004, 02:34 AM

Go to www.cardsntoons.com click on humor (they are all good) but my 2 favorites are on page 64-72, George bush, and the
human brain. I better not forget croc man in Africa. :D
What is the difference between a Jew and a pizza?

P i z z a s d o n t fry in the oven .
What is the difference between a Jew and an African?

Africans were born black.
Dr_Pind September 4th, 2004, 11:32 AM

Why do men aged 40+ sweat so much between two rounds of sex.........???
Because in most cases there comes a summer in between! Funny.. eh?
Boomer September 15th, 2004, 12:05 PM

Means I got 4 years left to practice twice a year ... :(
Why is AP female? It is composed of nail polish and hair bleach, catalysed by acid remarks! ;)
To what family of chemicals do AP, HMTD etc belong? OK, they are not pesticides. But very effective k3wlizides! :p
A2675770 September 20th, 2004, 03:23 PM

What does Earnheart and Pink floyd have in common?
They're greatest hit was the wall.
What do you do when you see a one armed nigger in your front yard?
Stop staring and re-load.
How many niggers does it take to shingle a roof?

Depends on how thin you slice them.
What does Micheal jackson and k-mart have in comon?

Little boys pants half off.
-A26
cursed-flesh October 2nd, 2004, 10:09 PM

id like to say that one in the banned forum by the jolly roger is priceless.
what do you call niggers in your shed?
antique farm equipment.
what are shitstains on a pakkies wall?

a family portrait.
what are blondes in a freezer?

frosted flakes
what do you call an ethiopian with an afro?

a microphone
what did Hitler get for his birthday?

G.I. Jew and an easy bake oven
why do niggers cry during sex?

the mace
what do you get when you cross a nigger and a spic?

someone to lazy to steal
why dont niglets play in the sandbox?

cats keep trying to bury them
why is there no nigger astronauts?

their lips explode at 50,000 feet
whats the difference between afghanistan and christmas?

christmas will be here this year
what does FUBU really stand for?

farmers use-da beat us
why do police dogs lick their ass?

to get the taste of nigger out of their mouth
did you hear about the black barbie?

it came with 12 kids,AIDS,and a welfare check
how do black women fight crime?

get an abortion
how was copper wire invented?

2 jews fought over a penny
why did so many niggers die in vietnam?

when someone yelled "get down" they'd jump up and start dancing
why do spics buy cabbage patch kids?

they come with a birth certificate
what word starts with "N" and ends in "R" that you never want to call a black person?
neighbor
do you remember the nigger family on the jetsons? no?

the future looks pretty good
what has 4 legs and a black arm?

a happy pitbull
festergrump October 4th, 2004, 08:51 PM

Love it, CF!
Just a few more:
How do you stop 5 niglets from raping a white girl?

Throw 'em a basketball.
What's transparent and lays in a ditch?

A nigger with the shit beat out of him.
What do you call a white guy on a bus full of niggers?

Coach.
meselfs October 6th, 2004, 01:27 AM

This is by far the funniest kewl text I've ever seen, completely unmodified from the textfiles archive:
RECIPE FOR A STANDARD PLASTIC EXPLOSIVE
INGREDIENTS:
GASOLINE - 1 PART OIL - 1 HALF PART STYROFOAM - 1 PART
1) MELT STYROFOAM. -REMEMBER NEVER AT ANY TIME LET THE MIXTURE GET TOO HOT.
2) LET COOL TO A THICK VISCOSITY.
3) MIX 3 INGREDIENTS TOGETHER IN FOLLOWING ORDER: FIRST ADD STYROFOAM, THEN

OIL, THEN GAS.
4) MIX IN A DEEP POT - KEEP MIXTURE AWAY FROM ANY TYPE OF FIRE! DO THIS STEP
WITH EXTREME CAUTION.
5) LET THE MIXTURE COOL TO A LITTLE BIT WARMER THAN ROOM TEMPERATURE - AROUND
88 DEGREES FARENHEIT.
6) MOLD THE MIXTURE HOW YOU WANT. (DIFFERENT SHAPES WILL MAKE IT MORE OR LESS
LETHAL).
OPTIONAL: YOU CAN ADD NUTS, BOLTS, AND SCREWS WHILE MIXING, ALONG WITH
GUNPOWDER, 2 M-80'S, OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF EXPLOSIVE TO MAKE IT THE EQUIVILANT
OF A MOLOTOV COCKTAIL.
NOTE: THE FRAGMENTS (NUTS, BOLT, ETC.) ARE DEADLY. THEY WILL PENETRATE A
BRICK WALL WHEN THE MIXTURE IS DETONATED.
DETONATION
1) THE MIXTURE CAN BE THROWN, BUT SOMETIMES DETONATION DOES NOT OCCUR.
2) THE MIXTURE CAN BE WIRED FOR AN ELECTRIC CHARGE TO BE SENT THROUGH IT, IT
WILL DETONATE WITHOUT DOUBT. A REGULAR FUSE CAN BE SENT THROUGH IT ALSO. IF
THIS METHOD IS USED, SOME SORT OF TIMER IS RECOMMENDED.
I can't help but to wonder if it's for real...
cyclonite4 October 7th, 2004, 09:39 AM

@Boomer: I guess you could call AP, HMTD, and MEKP k3wlizides, but they can also be called explosive peroxides, based on
their methods of preperation.
FUTI October 11th, 2005, 06:10 AM

This one knock me out...
Recently we have received credible evidence - there have been seven terrorists working in our office. Six of the seven have
been apprehended: Bin Sleepin, Bin Loafin, Bin Goofin, Bin Lunchin, Bin Drinkin and Bin Smokin, have been taken into
custody.
At this time, no one fitting the description of the seventh terrorist - Bin Workin - has been found at your office. We are
confident that anyone who looks like he's Bin Workin will be very easy to spot.
You are OBVIOUSLY not a suspect at this time, so keep on doing what you Bin Doin.
Sincerely,
Bin Tellin
xyz October 12th, 2005, 08:35 PM

One morning George Bush is getting his morning briefing from his war advisors on the situation in Iraq.
They mention to him that 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed in Fallujah yesterday, to which George responds "What? That's
terrible..." and sinks down in his chair with his head in his hands.
His advisors are very surprised, having told him about the deaths of hundreds of Americans before and having not seen much
reaction, yet now George is almost in tears over the deaths of 3 Brazilians, so the advisors just sit there in stunned silence.
Finally, George lifts his head up and says "Well, a brazillion sounds like a pretty big number, but exactly how many is it?"
meselfs October 12th, 2005, 08:43 PM

xyz, that's the best joke yet posted in this thread :->
Another Bush joke:
One day, Bush is drinking tea with the Queen of the UK.
He says "I think it'd be better if I made USA a kingdom"

The queen replies: "But you're not a king."
"Ah, right. Then how about a principality?"
"You'd have to be a prince."
"Dang, how bout 'empire' ?"
"Your're not an emperor..."
Before Bush could say his next line, the Queen interrupts:
"I think country works just fine"
nbk2000 October 13th, 2005, 04:14 PM

Meselfs:
Wouldn't that be "cunt'ry". ;)
Jacks Complete December 18th, 2005, 08:50 AM

Voted Best Joke of the Year in Australia
A Kiwi walks into his bedroom with a sheep under his arm and says:
"Darling, this is the pig I have sex with when you have a headache."
His girlfriend is lying in bed and replies:

"I think you'll find that's a sheep, you idiot."
The man says: "I think you'll find I wasn't talking to you."
Mr.Azo December 20th, 2005, 07:39 PM

What do the rabbis do with the leftovers from circumsizing jewish boys?
They sell it as chewing-gum to gays :p
Do you know how to save a negro from drowning? No?
Good!
nocturnal shadow December 21st, 2005, 12:40 AM

How does a Tasmanian know his sister is having her period?
His brothers cock tastes different
(if your not an Aussie just swap tasmanian with redneck or something)
FUTI February 10th, 2006, 12:45 PM

I just had to add it...
http://www.faithfreedom.org.nyud.net:8090/Gallery/Mo_Cartoons.jpg
not that I find them particularly funny (or attacking) just the whole mess they generated is funny enough.
twotonetony95 February 23rd, 2006, 10:43 PM

Passionate kiss like spider's web, soon lead to undoing of fly.
Man who run in front of car get tired.
Man who run behind car get exhausted.
Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day.
Foolish man give wife grand piano, wise man give wife upright organ.
Man who walk through airport turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.
Man with one chopstick go hungry.
Man who scratches butt should not bite fingernails.
Man who eat many prunes get good run for money.
Baseball is wrong, man with four balls cannot walk.
Panties not best thing on earth but next to best thing on earth.
War not determine who right, war determine who left.
Wife who put husband in doghouse soon find him in cat house.
Man who fight with wife all day get no piece at night.
It take many nails to build crib but one screw to fill it.
Man who drive like hell bound to get there.
Man who stand on toilet is high on pot.
Man who lives in glass house should change clothes in basement.
Man who fishes in other man's well often catches crabs.

Man who farts in church sits in own pew.
Man who lay woman on ground get piece on earth.
Omnius02 March 11th, 2006, 08:00 AM

(If you want to change abo aussie jokes to American jokes just replace abo with nigger.)
W h a t s the difference between an abo and a bucket of shit?

The bucket.
An abo, a Jew and a Muslim jump off a tall building and die, who wins?
Society.
W h a t s the difference between an aborig inal woman and a pa rk bench?

The park bench can support children.
nbk2000 April 15th, 2006, 04:19 AM

There was once a ship captain who was attacked by a pirate ship. He calmly said, "bring me my red jacket." His crew hurried to
obey, and they emerged victorious.
A few weeks later, he saw three pirate ships on the horizon. Once again, he calmly said, "bring me my red jacket," and at the
end of the day they emerged victorious.
By now the crew was curious, so later when they were eating, the first mate got up the nerve to ask the captain why he always
asked for his red jacket when they were in a battle. The captain explained, "I wear the red jacket so if I get wounded in battle
you won't notice and will continue to fight bravely."
The crew was impressed with his courage and gave a cheer for him.
The next day, a lookout spotted ten pirate ships on the horizon. The captain calmly said, "Bring me my brown pants."
:p
Child-of-Bodom April 15th, 2006, 05:28 PM

Some joke I heard from a Kiwi I was working with:
Why do sheep swim from New-Zealand to Australia?

Theyd rather be fucked then killed.
An Aussie, a Kiwi and a British guy walk over the beach, somewhere in Thailand. Suddenly, they found a bottle there, and when
they pick it up a genie pops out the bottle, and gives them one wish each.
The Brit: Ow well, thats easy. I just want 5 billion on my back acount.
Genie: 'poof' thats organised.
Aussie: I am so freaking fed up with those bloody immigrants in Australia, I want you to make a massive wall around my
country, so no one can enter any more, via any coastline... I take it that harbours are useless, I just dont want any bloody
immigrants any more. Make the wall very high, and a couple of 100 yards deep...
Genie: 'poof', done.
Kiwi: Genie, can you give me some info on the wall? Genie: Well, its about 500m high, and at least 200m deep, 500m where
possible.
Kiwi: Excellent. Can you now fill it up with water please?
nbk2000 April 24th, 2006, 04:48 AM

Not a joke per se, but funny none the less. :)
http://www.cryeprecision.com/product1.asp?P=TSH
FUTI April 28th, 2006, 07:03 AM

This was stronger from me...I had to post it even if it provoke NBK grammer sensitivity to deflagration point;), on the other
hand taking into account his "pro-nazi" standpoint he might be amused:D.
The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European
Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has
accepted a 5 year phase in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy.
The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make
words like fotograf 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expected to reach the stage where more komplikated changes
are possible.
Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the language is disgrasful and it should go away.
By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with"z" and "w" with "v".
During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl
riten styl.
Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.
Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.
nbk2000 May 1st, 2006, 05:39 AM

LOL! :D
Oh shit...that had me crying!
Anyways (wipes away a tear)...
Part of a post I made at another forum I occassionally visit that I thought worth preserving for posterity (in case they delete it
and ban me! :D), and rather humorous as well.
================================================== ============================
WARNING
Postings by NBK have been found by the State of California to contain high levels of Sarcasm, Satire, Hyperbole, and Ridicule.
Acute exposure may cause:
Immediate increase in blood pressure levels, caused by shock or anger.

Urge to click on links provided by, or obtain articles cited by, NBK, in attempt to disprove statements made by him.
Intense Googling to relieve "self-doubt of facts" itch, caused by exposure to NBK.
Immediate confusion of reality, resulting in mistaking NBK for someone called "Richard". :D
Chronic exposure may cause symptoms including (but not limited to):
Ego deflation
Self-examination
Relief of Testestorone Poisoning
Reduction of lead in the Enviroment
In case of adverse reaction from exposure to NBK, apply first-aid measures as follow:
Immediately remove yourself from the area to prevent further exposure

Consume large quantities of alcohol, preferably in the form of beer, to prevent change of mental state.
Watch Deer Hunter and Apocalypse Now to restore testosterone levels
Proceed to nearest firing range to replenish depleted blood-lead levels.
================================================== ============================
enhzflep May 1st, 2006, 07:35 AM

Many of you will have no doubt read this one before, but it still gets me every time.
MSDS WOMEN
ELEMENT: WOMAN
SYMBOL: Wo (Pronounced "Woe"; in primitive cultures -- "Woo Woo")
DISCOVERER: Adam
TYPE: Irrational Element
ATOMIC MASS: Generally accepted as 118
VARIATIONS: Isotopes identified with weights ranging from 95 to 300
PHYSICAL PROPERTIES:
1. A large number of allotropic forms have been observed
2. Transparency, hardness, color/shading vary within wide limits
3. The color exhibited by many specimens is a surface phenomenon
4. Most color variations are due to various types of strongly adhering powder
5. Some exposed surfaces may also be covered with painted film, lotions and/or creams
6. Thickness of all extracellular substances appear to increase with specimen's age
7. Caution: Exposed hair on some specimens may not be natural color
8. The boiling point for some is quite low, and may boil w/o apparent reason
9. Some specimens may also freeze without warning/reason, or at any moment
10. All varieties can melt, but only if given special and individualized treatment
11. Bitter if incorrectly used
12. Found in various states ranging from virgin metal to common ore
13. Yields to pressure applied to correct points
14. The vast majority of specimens do not age gracefully
15. Both stable and unstable unions have been described with the element man
CHEMICAL PROPERTIES:
1. Has great affinity for gold, silver, platinum and all precious stones
2. Able to absorb great quantities of expensive substances
3. Seemingly unlimited quantities of expensive food can be absorbed
4. May explode spontaneously if left alone with the element man
5. Insoluble in most liquids; Wo absorbs many liquids without dissolving in them
6. Activity may greatly increase upon saturation in alcohol
7. Most powerful money-reducing agent known
8. Some specimens appear to react well to being wrapped in animal fur
9. Others bristle against any type of fur (warmth apparently not a factor)
OCCURRENCE:
1. Abundant in nature and is found in both the free and combined states
2. Oftentimes found combined with the element Man
3. Many (as yet unexplained) regional differences in appearance and behavior
COMMON USES:
1. Highly ornamental, especially in sports cars
2. Can be a great aid to relaxation
3. Useful as a tonic in the alleviation of suffering, sickness, and low spirits
4. Wide application in the arts and domestic sciences
5. Very efficacious cooking and cleaning agent
TESTS:
1. Studies complicated by the fact that residual attraction is never satisfied
2. Pure specimen turns rosy pink when discovered in natural state
3. In general, they tend to explode spontaneously if in conflict with the element man
4. Turns green when placed beside better or more polished specimen
HAZARDS:
1. Highly dangerous except in experienced hands
2. Can be unstable and/or explosive
3. May be affected by phases of the moon, or nothing at all
LOCAL/STATE/FEDERAL LAWS:
1. Illegal to own more than one specimen outright at a time
2. Disposal laws are complex and extremely costly
3. Some select specimens are acceptable for recycling
FUTI May 4th, 2006, 02:43 PM

and I saw couple other versions but...it seems apropriate to be posted here.
HELL EXPLAINED BY CHEMISTRY STUDENT
The following is an actual question given on a

University of Washington chemistry mid-term.
The answer by on e stud ent was so profo und that the

professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet,
which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of
enjoying it as well :
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or

endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs

using Boyle s Law (gas cools when it expands an d heats
when it is compressed) or some variant.
One student, however, wrote the following:
First! , we need to know how the mass of Hell is

changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which
souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they
are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that
once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls
are e ntering Hell, let s look at the different
religions that exist in the world today. Most of these
religions state that if you are not a member of their
religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more
than one of these religions and since people do not
belong to more than one religion, we can project that
all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as
they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to
increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of
change of the volume in Hell because Bo yle s Law
states that in order for the temperature and pressure
in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to
expand proport! ionately as souls are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate

at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and
pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks
loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the
increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and
pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa

during my Freshman year th at, It will be a cold da y
in He ll be fore I sleep with yo u, and take into
account the fact that I slept with her last night,
then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that
Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The
corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen
over, it follows that it is not accepting any more
souls a nd is therefo re, extinct lea ving only
Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine
being which expl! ains why, last night, Teresa kept
shouting Oh my God.
THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY A
Zach730 May 6th, 2006, 01:17 AM

Wow this is my first post! Since I'm just learning as much as a I can; I can't really be helpful. Anyways back to topic.
++++++++
In some forest so big that almost no animals ever saw each other, there once was a magical frog who never saw another
animal in its entire life.
By chance one day the frog saw a rabbit being chased by a rather hungry bear. The frog yelled out to them, "Stop! If you both
come over here I will grant each of you three wishes!"
Well both the rabbit and the bear like they offer so they both go over to the toad. The bear, ending up to be a dominant male
bear, says," I'm going first so I wish for . . . umm . . . I KNOW! I wish for all the other bears in the forest to be females!"
"Done" says the frog.
Now its the rabbit's turn and all he says is,"I wish for a motor bike helmet"
"Done" And the rabbit puts the helmet on.
WHAT A STUPID WISH! Thought the bear. Oh well. Since the bear being such a greedy bear he wished for," I wish for all the
bears in the forest next to ours were female too!"
"Done"
Then again to the bear's amazement the rabbit does another stupid wish. "I wish for a motor bike."
"Done" And the rabbit hops on the bike.
That is the dumbest rabbit ever! Thought the bear. Now you have to have realized that this is one very greedy bear when he
says, "I wish for all of the bears in the world besides me to be females!"
"Done"(Stupid ain't it?)
After the bear's last wish the rabbit guns the engine and says,"I wish that bear was gay." And drives off.
++++++++
Not the best but something different.
aikon May 9th, 2006, 12:56 PM

without words:
http://www.zipperfish.net/free/yaafm12.php
Slinger May 19th, 2006, 12:05 AM

A young couple are married. On their wedding night, the bride places a small wooden box under her side of the bed, and
admonishes her husband never to open it. He's an honorable fella, and complies.
Years pass, and although he is curious, he never breaks his word by looking in the box.
Soon after their twenty-year anniversary, the wife falls ill and is admitted to the hospital for a few days. The husband, bored
and home alone, decides he cannot stand the temptation, and opens the box.
Inside, there are three eggs, and fifty-thousand dollars in small bills.
Soon, the wife comes home. Her husband, in a fit of guilt, admits he looked into the box, and asks about its contents.
The wife sighs and says, "Every time I have cheated on you, I placed an egg in the box."
The husband mulls this over and decides that three times in twenty years ain't bad. He asks, "Well, where did the $50,000
come from?"
The wife says, "Every time I had a dozen, I sold them." :D
-------------
How 'bout this one?
A farmer hires a new hand, a big, ex-con type named Zeke. At first, the farmer is worried about his decision, but the lad is a
hard worker, and always does every thing he's told.
One evening, the farmer sent Zeke to check on some cattle up the road, a ten-minute task. When Zeke doesn't return for
some time, the farmer begins to get concerned. Soon, he recieves a call via the new hand's cell phone.
Zeke says, "Boss, I've hit a pig with the truck."

The farmer says, "Well, that shit happens, drag it off the road so nobody else hits it, then come on to the house and help me
do chores."
Twenty or thirty minutes pass, still no Zeke. The farmer grows worried, and calls him.
"Zeke, where are you?" Zeke answers by saying, "Well, boss, the pig is still alive, and is kicking and squealing, I'm afraid he's
gonna hurt me."
The farmer sighs and says, "There's an old .30-.06 behind the seat, take it out, shoot him, drag him off the road, and get the
hell back here."
A half-hour passes, and the farmer is getting mad. He calls again.
"Zeke! What the hell are you doing? Did you shoot the pig and drag him aside?"
Zeke says, "Yes, I shot him in the head, and he's layin' in the ditch."
"Well, get the fuck back here!" the farmer screams into the phone.
Zeke says, "Well, boss, the pig's out of the way, but his motorcycle is tangled up on the bumper."
++++
Oh man... :D
NBK
Mr.Azo June 2nd, 2006, 09:36 PM

Why are the 'people' in Africa getting AIDS?
Because they fuck each other in the ass [1 (http://www.rsm.ac.uk/media/pdf/std0703brody.pdf)]
( Hey! It is a science forum, right? :p )
Fuze2short June 13th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Couple oldies.....
Stranded on a deserted island is Sharon Stone and a average everday guy. They had both been on a cruise ship that had
sunk in a storm. The guy and Sharon exchange names and formalitys. The two build a hut on their new island paradise and
adapt to a new casual life style. The guy and Sharon eventually get friendly and start having sex. For months this kind of life
style persists. Pick bannanas, fuck, sleep, fuck, eat some more bannanas. After a couple of more months this guy starts
walking around all depressed and he stops eating. Sharon is very worried and takes care of him.
"Why are you so upset?" Asks Sharon.
"Oh you wouldn't understand.." Replies the man.
This continues in till finally Sharon convinces him that she would do anything for him.
"Anything?" Asks the man.
"Yes, anything!" Promises Sharon.
The man gives her a list of things to do. He says for her to cut her hair really short and dress up like a man. He even tells her
to draw a mustache on her face. Even though she thinks his requests are odd she does exactly what he says.
"O.K." says the man, "now go around this side of the island and I'll go around the other side and we'll meet in the middle."
She does as he says and starts walking. After a couple of hours Sharon see's him running around the other side of the island
with his arms open. She starts running toward him.
They meet and he says...
"YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHO I'M FUCKING!!!"
This guy was tired of fooling around with loose women, and so he decided he was going to settle down and get married. But he
wanted to marry a virgin, so he came up with this little test. As soon as he would get the girl in his car, he would pull out his
tool and ask her what it was. The first girl said"That's a dick", so he sent her back in the house and left. The next night he
had a date with anoyher girl and he did the same thing. She too said"That's a dick", so he sent her back in the house. This
went on for a while till one night when he got the girl to the car and ask her the question, she looked at it and said"I don't
know". This, he decided, was the girl he was going to marry, so he put his tool away and they left for their date. After courting
her a bit, he finally popped the question and she said Yes. As soon as they got to their honeymoon suite, he pulled out his
tool and said" Honey, there's something I want you to know. This is a dick" She replied" No it isn't. A dick is much bigger than
that and it's black!"
A businessman boards a flight and is lucky enough to be seated next to an absolutely gorgeous woman.. They exchange brief
hellos and he notices she is reading a manual about sexual statistics. He asks her about it and she replies, "This is a very
interesting book about sexual statistics. It identifies that American Indians have the longest average penis and Polish men
have the biggest average diameter. By the way, my name is Jill. What's yours?"
He replies, "Tonto Kawalski, nice to meet you."
Last one:
A businessman boards a flight and is lucky enough to be seated next to an absolutely gorgeous woman.. They exchange brief
hellos and he notices she is reading a manual about sexual statistics. He asks her about it and she replies, "This is a very
interesting book about sexual statistics. It identifies that American Indians have the longest average penis and Polish men
have the biggest average diameter. By the way, my name is Jill. What's yours?"
He replies, "Tonto.........Tonto Kawalski, nice to meet you."
:p
agentsheppard June 14th, 2006, 03:00 PM

Here's a couple
There was a mexican an american a italian and an iraqi in a boat that was sinking. They needed to get rid of weight to prevent
futher sinking. So the italian tosses off his pizza and says i have plenty of those back in county, the mexican tosses off his
taco and says i have plenty of those back in county, the iraqi tosses off his weapons of mass destruction and says i have
plenty of those back in county the american tosses off the mexican and says i have plenty of those back in county!
Another one
A blond is swerving all over the road so the cop pulls her over and says" Ma'am, why are you swerving?''
she replies " No matter where I look there's this tree in the way."
Tho cop takes a quick look in the car and laughs
"Ma'am thats your pine air freshener"
mil&co June 16th, 2006, 12:40 PM

Well, not exactly a joke, but it's fun:)
http://www.hellinahandbasket.net/archives/002718.html
fiknet June 16th, 2006, 01:57 PM

Thanks mil&co, those were great! I absolutely lost it on the one where his magazine spring has popped out.
QtipJC June 30th, 2006, 05:52 PM

How do you keep a baby from crawling around in circles?
Nail its other hand to the floor.

--------------------------------------
What's purple, covered in puss, and squeals?
A peeled baby in a bag of salt.
-----------------------------
When do you know it's time to do the dishes?
Look in your pants. If you have a penis, it's not time.
-----------------------------------------
Zajcek June 30th, 2006, 10:39 PM

Here is a couple of them, but they probably suck, because they were translated from Slovenian.
Q: What's that, it is crawling on all four and can't get under table ?
A: It's a baby with pitchfork sticking out of his back.
Q: What's more cruel than a baby in a trash can?

A: A baby in seven trash cans.
Q: What is red and is scratching on the door?

A: A baby in microwave oven.
Q: What is blue and sitting in the corner?

A: a baby with PVC bag over his had
Q: What is blue-green, and is sitting in the corner?

A: A baby couple of weeks latter.
Q: What does a truck driver do, when he sees children playing on the road?
A: he turns on the windshield wipers
A Grandma was babysitting and she wanted to go for a walk with her grandson, but outside was very cold so he was struggling.
She grabbed him by his leg and dragged him down the stairs that his head was bumping in them. An elderly neighbor came by
and said: "Watch out his hat will fall off!"
And the Grandma replied: "No it won't, I nailed it with some nails!"
Q: Why does Blondie replaces the dippers to her child once a month?
A: Because it says "MAX 5kg" on them, and she wants to use them to their full capacity ;)
Q: What do you get if you cross-breed monkey and a turtle?

A: A cop wit a helmet :D
A young boy was playing with a piece of dog shit and building a statue, and a priest came by.
He asked a boy: "What are you making?"
Boy replied: "A priest"
priest was angry and walked away
Then postman came by and asked a boy:"What are you making"
Boy replied:"A postman"
postman was angry and walked away.
A police officer was watching and listening to that from beginning and said to the boy: "If I ask you what are you making, you
will probably reply a policeman, won't you"
than the boy replied:"NO I NEED MORE SHIT FOR A POLICEMAN!"
Q: Why does a policeman has a dog?

A: At least one has a proper education.
Q: How do you make a policeman's brain to a pea size?

A: You have to inflate it!
Q: Why does a policeman take a car door to a beach?

A: So he will open a window when he will be hot.
Q: Why does a cop have one empty bottle with him, and one full of water?
A: He's got a full one if he 'll be thirsty, and empty one if he won't be.
A cop is crying on the sidewalk, a

man comes by and he asks a cop: "why are you crying?"
cop replies:"I've lost my trained dog"
man replies back:"Well, if he's trained, he will find a way to get home"
cop replies even more hysterically:"Yes, he will, but what about me?!"
What does a cop do with a mole, he captures in his garden?

He buries it alive :)
Q: Why does a policeman have two stones under his bed?

A: With one, he turns off the light, whit another, he checks if the window is closed.
c.Tech July 4th, 2006, 10:51 AM

Here is a couple of them, but they probably suck, because they were translated from Slovenian.
:D HaHaHa. They were good, I love anything that mocks the piglets.
Comical bumper stickers and sentences:
If you can read this, I can slam on my breaks and sue you.
CAUTION!! I speed up for small animals.
One good thing about Alzheimers is you get to meet new people every day.
Reality is only an illusion that occurs due to lack of alcohol.
When a father is tucking his boy into bed the boy says goodnight mummy, goodnight daddy, goodnight grandma, goodbye
grandpa.
The father becomes quite confused. He says goodnight to his son and goes to bed.
The next morning he is extremely shocked to realize that his father in law is dead.
At night the boy says goodnight mummy, goodnight daddy, goodbye grandma. The father becomes extremely worried and
disturbed.
However he doesnt question the coincidence, says goodnight to his son and goes to bed.
The next morning he even more shocked to find that his mother in law is dead.
That last night the boy says goodnight mummy, goodbye daddy.
This leaves him petrified unable to sleep for hours. He finally convinces himself thats shi being superstitious and gets a few
hours sleep. He wakes up to him relief that his not dead.
Suddenly he hears his wife screaming in horror, she yells shockingly The milkman has dropped dead on our doorstep.
Back in the olden days, when aircraft cockpits had round dials, plus flight engineers and navigators.
The crusty old-timer captain is breaking in a new navigator.
The captain opens his briefcase, pulls out a .38 and rests it on the instrument panel.
Know what this is for? he asks the navigator.
No, sir, replies the newbie.
I use it on navigators that get us lost, explains the captain, winking at his first officer.
The navigator then opens his briefcase, pulls out a .45 and sets it on his chart table.
WHATS THAT FOR? shouts the surprised captain.
Well, sir, replies the navigator, Ill know were lost before you will.
hst45 July 21st, 2006, 04:58 PM

Here's an interesting bumper sticker I saw today.
"I just got a gun for my wife.

It was the best trade I ever made!"
jinxxxonu July 30th, 2006, 06:26 PM

This one's for you NBK,
What's the difference between a nigger and a new set of snow tires? The tires don't scream when you put the chains on them!
30yearstoolate! August 15th, 2006, 03:36 AM

If you can read this whole story without laughing then
there's no hope for you. I was crying by the end. (I've read this
Probably 5 times and it never fails to reduce me to tears of laughter).
Hope it does the same for you!!!
For those of you who have lived in Texas, you know how
true this is. They actually have a Chili Cook Off about the time
Halloween comes around. It takes up a major portion of a parking lot at
the San Antonio City Park. If you pay attention to the first two judges,
the reaction of the third judge is even better. Judge #3 was an
inexperienced Chili Taster named Frank, who was visiting from
Springfield, IL.
Frank: "Recently, I was honored to be selected as a

judge at a chili cook-off. The original person called in sick at the last
moment and I happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking for
directions to the Coors Light truck, when the call came in. I was assured
by the other two judges (Native Texans) that the chili wouldn't be all
that spicy and, besides, they told me I could have free beer during the
tasting, so I accepted."
Here are the scorecard notes from the event:

************************************************** ***
CHILI # 1 - MIKE'S MANIAC MONSTER CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- A little too heavy on the tomato. Amusing

Kick.
Judge # 2 - Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild.
Judge # 3 (Frank) -- Holy shit, what the hell is this

Stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway. Took me two beers
To put the flames out. I hope that's the worst one. These Texans are
Crazy.
************************************************** ***
CHILI # 2 - AUSTIN'S AFTERBURNER CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- Smoky, with a hint of pork. Slight jalapeno

Tang.
Judge #2 -- Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to

Be taken seriously.
Judge # 3 -- Keep this out of the reach of children. I'm

not sure what I'm supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two
people who wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. They had to rush in
more beer when they saw the look on my face.
************************************************** ***
CHILI # 3 - FRED'S FAMOUS BURN DOWN THE BARN CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- Excellent firehouse chili. Great kick.
Judge # 2 -- A bit salty, good use of peppers.
Judge # 3 -- Call the EPA. I've located a uranium spill.

My nose feels like I have been snorting Drano. Everyone knows the
routine by now. Get me more beer before I ignite. Barmaid pounded me on
the back, now my backbone is in the front part of my chest. I'm getting
shit-faced from all of the beer.
************************************************** ***
CHILI # 4 - BUBBA'S BLACK MAGIC...
Judge # 1 -- Black bean chili with almost no spice.

Disappointing.
Judge # 2 -- Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side

Dish for fish or other mild foods not much of a chili.
Judge # 3 -- I felt something scraping across my tongue,

But was unable to taste it. Is it possible to burn out taste buds? Sally,
the beermaid, was standing behind me with fresh refills. That 300-LB woman
Is starting to look HOT. Just like this nuclear waste I'm eating! Is chili
an aphrodisiac?
************************************************** ***
CHILI # 5 LISA'S LEGAL LIP REMOVER...
Judge # 1 -- Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers

Freshly ground, adding considerable kick. Very impressive.
Judge # 2 -- Chili using shredded beef, could use more

Tomato. Must admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement.
Judge # 3 -- My ears are ringing, sweat is pouring off

My forehead and I can no longer focus my eyes. I farted and four people
behind me needed paramedics. The contestant seemed offended when I told
her that her chili had given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue from
bleeding by pouring beer directly on it from the pitcher. I wonder if I'm
burning my lips off. It really pisses me off that the other judges asked
me to stop screaming. Screw those rednecks.
************************************************** ***
CHILI # 6 - VERA'S VERY VEGETARIAN VARIETY...
Judge # 1 -- Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili.

Good balance of spices and peppers.
Judge # 2 -- The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers,

Onions, and garlic. Superb.
Judge # 3 -- My intestines are now a straight pipe

Filled with gaseous, sulfuric flames. I shit on myself when I farted and
I'm worried it will eat through the chair. No one seems inclined to stand
behind me except that Sally. Can't feel my lips anymore. I need to wipe my
ass with a snow cone.
************************************************** ***
CHILI # 7 - SUSAN'S SCREAMING SENSATION CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- A mediocre chili with too much reliance on

canned peppers.
Judge # 2 -- Ho hum, tastes as if the chef literally

threw in a can of chili peppers at the last moment. **I should take note
that I am worried about Judge # 3. He appears to be in a bit of distress
as he is cursing uncontrollably.
Judge # 3 -- You could put a grenade in my mouth, pull

the pin, and I wouldn't feel a thing. I've lost sight in one eye, and the
world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My shirt is covered with
chili, which slid unnoticed out of my mouth. My pants are full of lava to
match my shirt. At least during the autopsy, they'll know what killed me.
I've decided to stop breathing it's too painful. Screw it; I'm not getting
any oxygen anyway. If I need air, I'll just suck it in through the 4-inch
hole in my stomach.
************************************************** ***
CHILI # 8 - BIG TOM'S TOENAIL CURLING CHILI...
Judge # 1 -- The perfect ending, this is a nice blend

chili. Not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.
Judge # 2 -- This final entry is a good, balanced chili.

Neither mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge #3
farted, passed out, fell over and pulled the chili pot down on top of
himself. Not sure if he's going to make it. poor feller, wonder how he'd
have reacted to really hot chili?
Judge # 3 - No Report
__________________________________________________ __
My father sent me this in my email. I read it and almost pissed myself I was laughing so hard. Hope everyone likes it.
nbk2000 August 16th, 2006, 06:10 AM

A funny sig line I saw elsewhere:
The gun is good. The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life, and poisons the earth with a plague of men,
as once it was. But the gun shoots death, and purifies the earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth and kill!
(from a show titled Zardoz)
festergrump August 16th, 2006, 07:22 AM

I figured I was probably the ONLY person here who had ever seen that movie... It certainly was "out there". One of the
strangest movies Sean Connery ever starred in...
P.S. The chili thing had me rolling from the start!
Bert August 24th, 2006, 10:09 AM

Not a joke, but after spending 6 hours with a DOT inspector yesterday, strangely appealing. THE SCORCHED EARTH PARTY!!!
http://www.armory.com/~crisper/Scorch/index.html
With such loving stories as The Christmas Story...
http://www.armory.com/~crisper/Scorch/xmas.html
kiwi August 25th, 2006, 08:24 AM

W h a t s the difference between a n igger and a speed bump?
The speed bump has a job.
W h a t s the difference between a n igger and a picnic table?

The picnic table can support a family.
W h a t s the difference between a n igger and dog shit?

Dog shit turns white after a couple of days.
What do you call a lesbian with one leg?

Gaylene.
neeka August 28th, 2006, 03:44 PM

Kinda old but,
if a blonde, redhead, and burnette jump off a cliff, who would reach the ground last?
The blonde, cause it'll stop and ask for directions.
Diabolique August 30th, 2006, 09:47 PM

Gave this one to festergrump earlier, and thought others may like it. It is a real event, and gives an insight to what type of
NCO I was.
The Care and Feeding of Leutenants
I was stationed at Ft. Huachuca, AZ, where the skies were cloudless almost every day. I carried a pocket sundial to tell time
with.
One day, my Leutenant asked for the time, as his watch had stopped. I whipped out my sundial, adjusted it, and told him the
time. He didn't want to trust such a seemingly low-tech method of telling time, and asked another sergeant for the time, who
gave him the identical time as I had.
He came back to me, impressed with the accuracy of such a 'crude' device as a pocket sundial. His last question was what did I
do at night. I told him to come back at night, and I would show him (I had a pocket calculator with a built-in clock).
That night, he came up to me, and asked to see how I used the sundial to tell time at night. I took out the sundial and a
flashlight, made a big display of adjusting the two, and told him the time. He looked at his watch, saw it had the same time,
shook his head, and walked off, totally bewildered.
The secret? I saw the time on a clock in the window across the street. To this day, he likely is still wondering how it is done.
To the ignorent, even low-tech can be magic!
hst45 September 1st, 2006, 02:43 PM

QUESTION: What do you call the process whereby a snake and its skin are seperated?
ANSWER: Disbarment.
nbk2000 September 5th, 2006, 02:34 PM

The agony of having spilled acid down my pants was quickly tempered by the breathtaking, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to
watch a penis melt.
:eek: :D
http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/QuotesSexual.html
c.Tech September 20th, 2006, 12:51 AM

I got this in an email, I dont know if its true but it's funny none the less.
I wouldnt be surprised if there was a lot of truth behind the corrupt law makers.
Which one fits the bill (This Is Good!)
ARL stands for Australian Rugby League and AFL stands for Australian Football League
Does the following apply to the ARL OR AFL? This is good!!!!

36 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71, repeat 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 currently are defendants in lawsuits, and 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
Can you guess which organization this is?
Give up yet? Scroll down,
Neither, it's the 535 members of the AUSTRALIAN PARLIAMENT IN CANBERRA
The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.
You gotta pass this one on!
Code Red September 20th, 2006, 07:18 AM

c.Tech,
As backwards as the politicians in Australia are, that email is a definate fake!

I've seen the same post on a certain website where it mentioned it was the South African government. NOW THAT, I WOULD
BELIEVE!
p.s: Quick joke while im here
Q:Why do they only have 2 pall bearers at a niggers funeral?
A:Because a garbage bin only has 2 handles
festergrump September 20th, 2006, 08:56 AM

Q: How can you tell the pitbull attacking you is owned by a nigger?
A: It flies sideways through the air toward your jugular.
Diabolique September 20th, 2006, 12:22 PM

C.tech, are you sure you do not mean the US and not Austrailia? That sounds almost like the sports pages here.
Politicians are the same the world over. Our town executive is being prosecuted for stealing most of the funds for uprading the
local airport, using substandard construction instead. The terminal, which he named for himself, is crumbling after 1 year, and
the parking apron at the terminal is cracking.
________
Definition of sympathetic detonation:
At an outdoor munitions dump, with bombs lined up on pallets in the hot sun.
BOOM!
"Hey, guys, George just blew up. Lets show him some sympathy!"
BOOM!BOOM!BOOM!BOOM!BOOM!
Hirudinea September 20th, 2006, 09:29 PM

A guy walks into a sex shop
"I want to buy a blow up sex doll."
"Male or Female?
"Female."
"Black or White?"
"White."
"Muslim or Christian?"
"What the hell difference does its religion make?"
"The Muslim ones blow themselves up."

Reverend_Jones September 24th, 2006, 03:09 PM
On hearing that her elderly grandfather had just passed away, Katie went straight to her grandparent's house to visit her 95
year old Grandmother and comfort her. When she asked how her grandfather had died, her grandmother replied, "He had a
heart attack while we were making love on Sunday morning." Horrified, Katie told her grandmother that 2 people nearly 100
years old having sex would surely be asking for trouble.
"Oh no, my dear," replied granny. "Many years ago, realising our advanced age, we figured out the best time to do it was
when the church bells would start to ring. It was just the right rhythm. Nice and slow and even. Nothing too strenuous, simply in
on the Ding and out on the Dong."
She paused, wiped away a tear and then continued, "and if that damned Ice Cream truck hadn't come along, he'd still be
alive."
-------------------------------------------------------
An elderly man escorts his wife to the doctor for her annual check up. His wife
goes into the examine room with the doctor. After a hour they come out and the
doctor calls the elderly man into his office.
Elderly man : So how is she?
Doctor : I am afraid I have bad news. Your wife either has Alzheimers or AIDS.
Elderly man : Thats awful! What do you suggest I do?
Doctor : Take her 20 miles out into the woods and leave her. If she finds her
way home, don't fuck her.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Betsy Sue Jim Bob's cousin Bubba died in a fire and was burnt pretty bad and the morgue needed someone to identify the
body. So his two best friends, Daryl and Gomer, were sent for.
Daryl went in and the mortician pulled back the sheet. Daryl said, 'Yup, he's burnt pretty bad, but lemme check somethin'. Roll
him over.' So the mortician rolled him over, and Daryl looked and said, 'Nope it ain't Bubba.' The mortician thought that was
rather strange.
Then he brought Gomer in to identify the body. Gomer took a look at him and said, 'Yup, he's burnt real bad. Roll him over'.
The mortician rolled him over and Gomer looked down and said, 'No, it ain't Bubba.'
The mortician asked, 'How can you be so sure?' Gomer said, 'Well, Bubba had two assholes.' 'What?? He had two assholes?'
said the mortician. 'Yup, everyone in town knew he had 'em. Why, every time WE went to town, folks would say, 'Here comes
Bubba with them two assholes.....'
------------------------------------------------------------------
It is around Christmas time and Santa is sitting in the middle of the mall in his big holiday setup.
He has a line of kids lined up to sit on his lap and tell him what they want for Christmas.
As the line dwindles down, a little 5 year old boy comes up and sits on his lap.
Santa says to the little boy,"I bet I know what you want for Christmas,"you want a puppy, P-U-P-P-Y", touching the tip of the
little boys nose with his finger after every letter of the word.
The little boy responds, "Nope".
So Santa again says, "Then I bet you want a bike, B-I-K-E", as he again touched the tip of the little boys nose with his finger.
The little boy again said, "Nope".
Well Santa's starting to get a little pissed off. He thinks to himself that he'll try one more time.
He says to the little boy, "I bet you want a fire engine, F-I-R-E-E-N-G-I-N-E", once again touching the tip of the little boys nose
with his finger after every letter of the word.
Where to the little responds"Nope".
At this time he's really pissed off. So he says to the little boy, "Then what the fuck do you want for Christmas?"
The little boy then looked at Santa and said, "I want some pussy, P-U-S-S-Y, and don't fucking tell me that you can't give me
any because I can smell it on your finger!"
rockafeller September 30th, 2006, 01:23 PM

Two men are in a bar, the first man is telling the second about a pros he hooked up with last night.
"I tell ya.... she's amazing, last night she sang the entire national anthem whilst giving me deepthroat! She works mondays at
that new spiffy err.... motel by the docks."
The second man found this story hard to believe but curiosity got the better of him and went to see the proz.
Twenty minutes later he was at the motel with the hoe. She switched off the light and started giving him a bj whilst singing the
national anthem.
Surprised and most impressed the man switched on the light to see how she was doing it.
The pro screamed and ran out of the room covering her face leaving behind a glass eye-ball..........
.
.
.
.
got it yet? :eek:
+++++
Q: Why are all the niggers so quick?

A: All the slow ones are in prison already.
festergrump September 30th, 2006, 02:05 PM

Not a joke but funny all the same:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f348/festergrump/liberalcomic.jpg
kaiserbill October 4th, 2006, 10:23 AM

A UFO swoops out of the sky and picks up 3 earthlings for analysis. One is a German, another is a Japanese, whilst the 3rd is
a nigger.
They put the German under, open up his skull, and take a peek inside. Inside his head is a perfectly crafted hi-tech titanium
machine with liquid metal cooling. Mightily impressed, they wake him up and send him on his way.
They put the Japanese under, open up his skull, and take a peek inside. Inside his head is a highly advanced CPU with freon
cooling, high speed databus, and massive storage capacity. Very impressed, they wake him up and send him on his way.
They then put the nigger under, open up his skull, and take a look inside. It is completely empty inside, except for a piece of
string running from the left side of his skull to the right. Baffled, one of the aliens produces a scissor and cuts the string...
...and the niggers ears fall off.
c.Tech October 12th, 2006, 10:14 AM

Enter 'miserable failure' or just 'failure' into google search and you get as the first link a bibliography of a well know person.
Who is this person? Who else but George W Bush. :p
Here is an article on how it is done. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3298443.stm
'Miserable failure' links to Bush
George W Bush has been Google bombed.
Web users entering the words "miserable failure" into the popular search engine are directed to the biography of the president
on the White House website.
The trick is possible because Google searches more than just the contents of web pages - it also counts how often a site is
linked to, and with what words.
Thus, members of an online community can affect the results of Google searches - called "Google bombing" - by linking their
sites to a chosen one.
Weblogger Adam Mathes is credited with inventing the practice in 2001, when he used it to link the phrase "talentless hack" to
a friend's website.
The search engine can be manipulated by a fairly small group of users, one report suggested.
Newsday newspaper says as few as 32 web pages with the words "miserable failure" link to the Bush biography.
The Bush administration has been on the receiving end of pointed Google bombs before.
In the run-up to the Iraq war, internet users manipulated Google so the phrase "weapons of mass destruction" led to a joke
page saying "These Weapons of Mass Destruction cannot be displayed."
The site suggests "clicking the regime change button", or "If you are George Bush and typed the country's name in the
address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly (IRAQ)".
:D sounds fun!
nocturnal shadow October 23rd, 2006, 05:58 AM

Q: What is the only animal to have an arsehole located on the middle of its back?
A: A police horse.
nbk2000 November 8th, 2006, 06:49 PM

Politically Correct Fairy Tales
by John Hawkins
Are you sick and tired of those "conservative" fairy tales? Are you an American liberal or someone from Europe who thinks
those fairy tales teach values that no longer need to be promoted in today's world? Well, RWN is coming to your rescue with
our "Politically Correct Fairy Tales!"
=====
Hansel and Gretel
Hansel and Gretel were lost in the woods when they came upon a house made of candy and cake. An old witch invited them in
and then captured both of them intending to eat them. Gretel had a chance to save both of them by pushing the old woman in
an oven but she decided that it would be wrong not to respect the witch's cultural traditions. So Gretel and her brother allowed
themselves to be cooked and eaten. The witch was so happy with the children's actions that she invited all of her witch friends
to the area. Soon thereafter, they ate every child in a hundred mile radius. Soon the whole area was filled with nothing but
child eating witches and all the witches were very happy!
The Moral of the Story: You must respect the culture of others, even at your own expense!
=====
Fisherman and the Fish
An old man finds a fish. The fish says "Let me go, old man. I will reward you for my freedom by giving you anything you
desire". The old man at the behest of his wife makes wish after wish. Finally, the fish decides the old man and his wife are
being too greedy and takes everything he gave them away. Then the man and his wife hire Johnny Cochran and sue the
federal government for not having federal regulations in place to prevent wishing fish from unfairly taking away previously
given magical spoils. The judge ruled in their favor and they were both given 500 million dollars worth of taxpayer funds with
which they lived happily ever after.
The Moral of the Story: It's the federal government's responsibility to fix every bad thing that happens in the world.
=====
The Three Billy-Goats Gruff
The first and second billy goat gruffs were stopped from going across a bridge to get food by a troll. Then the biggest and
baddest billy goat gruff showed up. He told the troll he was going to kick his @ss. That greatly upset the first and second of
the billy goats gruff who accused the third billy goat gruff of "hegemony" and "imperialism" and said that negotiation was the
way to go. So the third billy goat gruff went away. Unfortunately, the troll refused to negotiate and first two billy goats gruff
starved to death.
The Moral of the Story:It's better to starve to death than to fight!
=====
The Three Little Pigs (My favorite story. :) NBK)
There were once three little pigs. The first little pig built his house out of straw. But the big bad wolf easily knocked it down.
Then he ran to the 2nd pig's house which was made out of sticks. But the wolf came there and knocked it down too. Then both
pigs ran to the American pig's house which was made out brick. When the wolf came there, the American pig pulled out a gun
and blew his stinking head off. Afterwards, both little pigs who lost their houses started building their houses out of straw
again. When the American pig asked them why they accused the American of being an "arrogant jerk" and of "acting
unilaterally". But they secretly knew the American would always save them, just like he did in WW1 and WW2 so they could
afford not to be prepared.
The Moral of the Story: Even though Americans are helpful, they're real creeps!
=====
The Ants and the Grasshopper
All summer long the ants worked and prepared for the winter while the grasshopper went to Rage Against the Machine concerts
and played Everquest. The grasshopper laughed and laughed at the ants for working so hard. Then winter came. The ants had
plenty of food and shelter while the grasshopper had none. So the government took the ants tax money and built the
grasshopper a house, gave him welfare cheese to eat, and paid for courses at the local university that the grasshopper didn't
bother to go to. When the ants complained everyone agreed that they were greedy rich jerks for having more than the
grasshopper.
The Moral of the Story: Taking money from people who work hard and giving it to the lazy is compassionate!
ravn November 8th, 2006, 11:01 PM

Q. What's worse than a bus load of niggers going over a cliff?
A. 1 empty seat on the bus.
Q. Why do niggers where wide brim hats?

A. To keep the bird shit off their lips.
Q. How do you stop a nigger from drowning?

A. Take your foot off his head.
Q. How do you get 9 niggers in to a VW Bug?

A. Throw in a basket ball.
Q. How do you get them back out again?

A. Throw in a welfare check.
Q. How do you stop 5 niggers from raping a white girl?

A. Throw them a basket ball.
Q. What is tattooed on the inside of every niggers lips?

A. Inflate to 20 psi.
Q. Why don't niggers drive convertibles?

A. their lips would flap them to death.
Q. How do you drive a nigger crazy?
A. Hide his welfare check under his work boots.
Q. Why don't Mexican parents let their kids play with nigger kids?
A. They are afraid their kids will get too lazy to steal.
c.Tech March 22nd, 2007, 01:15 AM

Economic Models Explained with Cows
SOCIALISM: You have 2 cows, and you give one to your neighbour.
COMMUNISM: You have 2 cows. The State takes both and gives you some milk.
FASCISM: You have 2 cows. The State takes both and sells you some milk.
NAZISM: You have 2 cows. The State takes both and shoots you.
BUREAUCRATISM: You have 2 cows. The State takes both, shoots one, milks the other, then throws the milk away.
TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income.
SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.
AN AMERICAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. Later,
you hire a consultant to analyse why the cow has dropped dead.
ENRON VENTURE CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit
opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get
all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a
Cayman Island Company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed
company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. Sell one cow to buy a new
president of the United States, leaving you with nine cows. No balance sheet provided with the release.
The public buys your bull.
THE ANDERSEN MODEL: You have two cows. You shred them.
A FRENCH CORPORATION: You have two cows. You go on strike, organise a riot, and block the roads because you want three
cows.
A JAPANESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and
produce twenty times the milk. You then create a clever cow cartoon image called 'cowkimon' and market it worldwide.
A GERMAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk
themselves.
AN ITALIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows, but you don't know where they are. You decide to have lunch.
A RUSSIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn
you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 2 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of
vodka.
A SWISS CORPORATION: You have 5000 cows. None of them belong to you. You charge the owners for storing them.
A CHINESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them. You claim that you have full employment,
and high bovine productivity and arrest the newsman who reported the real situation.
AN INDIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You worship them.
A BRITISH CORPORATION: You have two cows. Both are mad.
IRAQI CORPORATION: Everyone thinks you have lots of cows. You tell them that you have none. No-one believes you, so they
bomb the **** out of you and invade your country. You still have no cows but at least now you are part of a Democracy....
AUSTRALIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. Business seems pretty good. You close the office and go for a few beers to
celebrate.
WELSH CORPORATION: You have two cows. The one on the left looks very attractive.
Killer toothpic March 29th, 2007, 01:07 AM

A litttle black boy paints himself white, then goes in to show his mom.
She takes one look at him, slaps him, and says "Go show your dad".
He goes and shows his dad and his dad slaps him, and says" Go show your grandpa".
He shows the grandpa , and he too slaps him across the face, then asks him"So what have you learned?"
The little boy answers and says "I've been white for only 10 minutes, and I already hate niggers!!"
++++++++++++++++
A nigger and a wetback jump off a building. Who wins? Society.
++++++++++++++++
Q: What do you call 1000 niggers buried to their necks in sand?
A: Afroturf.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Taking AP Chems Through Customs?
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View Full Version : Taking AP Chems Through Customs?
xyz May 2nd, 2003, 07:53 AM

A friend of mine is going on holiday to the UK and Europe and wants to take some things to liven up the holiday (and to show off to his relatives :)).
Anyway, would it be safe to take Acetone, H2O2, and HCl through customs? My friend and I have already thought of ways to get the acetone and the H2O2 through. We are
going to empty out a bottle of Nail Polish Remover (90% acetone) and refill it with pure acetone. For the H2O2, we are going to buy a 100mL bottle of 6% H2O2 Hair Bleach,
discard the 6% stuff and then refill it with 50% H2O2.
We have not yet figured out a way to get HCl through customs, any suggestions are welcome.
My friend is also planning to take several Instant Cold Packs so that he can cut them open once he has reached his destination, then use the AN for APAN.
Anyway, the point of this thread is mostly : How well do you think the above methods will work for smuggling the chems? How well are cold packs sealed and will the AN in
them send the sniffer dogs crazy?
And like I said, suggestions for smuggling 10mL of conc. HCl are welcome.
knowledgehungry May 2nd, 2003, 08:35 AM

Well i think that your plans for bringing in the H2O2 and acetone will work fine. I have never been through international customs, i am only familiar with national airport security
measures. My guess is that if you put all those chemicals in your non-carry on bag you will be fine. Put the HCl in something like a almond extract jar. One more thing your
friend might want to mail the H2O2 to your relatives, that is the only chem that i think you would get in real trouble for.
frogfot May 2nd, 2003, 08:54 AM

What about the old way.. fill a 0,5l plastic bottle from mineral water with HCl and have it in your hands/hand bag all the time. Though i wouldnt be you when they force you to
drink it :)
Btw, there are some cleaners that contain 10% HCl.. they're not considered to be that evul. Maby you can replace it with 30%.
Stoic May 2nd, 2003, 09:32 AM

I may be missing the point here - but why not just buy the chemicals in the UK? They are all ready available.
Monkey_Poo69 May 2nd, 2003, 12:54 PM

I was thinking the same thing. The hydrogen peroxide and acetone will be fine. Try filling a bottle meant for corrosive things with some HCL and write Hydrogen Peroxide on it.
I don't think you will be asked questions about this. If the HCL is causing that much of problem, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to buy it in the UK
Anthony May 2nd, 2003, 03:43 PM

It would be a lot easier just to buy the reactants in Europe. You won't be restricted in amount either.
Cleaners are prohited on aircraft IIRC. The acid definitely would be, since acid spilt on an airframe could mean having to decomission the entire plane...
I would b e weary of packing 50% H2O2. The baggage throwers/stampers could casuse the container to split/break/rupture, possibly causing ignition of otehr items in your
baggage. Being responsible for a midair fire in the cargo hold isn't going to go down well.
The chances of such disasters isn't that great, but sod's law isn't on your side and the consequences would be *nasty*.

yeah, Anthony is right. Just don't take the chemicals on the plane. It is too big of a risk for something that small. You can buy the items there anyways. Threre is no point in
taking the chemicals. Plus, I'm pretty sure that your friend will be nervous about getting caught on the plane so he can save himself from that by just buying the stuff there.
Another reason why this isn't a good idea is that if he does get caught, they will find out that he is trying to build explosives. All the chemicals for building acetone peroxide on
a plane isn't a good idea at all.
EP May 2nd, 2003, 06:08 PM

Other people said it, but just to reinforce: It's not worth the risk, buy the stuff when you/they/whoever gets there.
xyz May 2nd, 2003, 09:51 PM

My friend didn't want to have to go to the trouble of tracking down all the chems once he arrived in Europe. I will suggest to him that he dilutes the H2O2 down to 25% if he is
going to take it so that it is no longer a fire risk (H2O2 below 30% conc. is not classed as hazmat) .
Are cold packs easily available from chemists in Europe (more specifically England and Germany)? Can Anthony or anyone else suggest a place to get the HCl from in England?
Edit: I'm sure I once saw a thread about using lemon juice in the place of HCl for AP synthesis. Does anyone have an AP synth that uses lemon juice or citric acid as the
catalyst? Citric Acid would be easy enough to take with you. The thread about his was in the archives but according to Anthony, "a knob goblin has stolen the archives".

Cold packs won't be a problem to take on the plane so he can take that..... Like I said before, the H2O2 and the acetone will be fine but he can find the HCL in Europe. I'm
searching on google for any large stores that are in England that sell that kind of stuff but I can't find anything right now. If I find something, I'll post it. To make it a little bit
more easier for me to search, which part of England will he be staying in (a city or town)?
xyz May 2nd, 2003, 10:27 PM

I would rather not go into detail about the city or town. I am not looking for a particular place that would sell HCl, I just want to know what shops to look in e.g. Hardware
Shops. I just want to know what shops would sell HCl in England, that's all.
I am still thinking that taking citric acid would be easiest, can anyone tell me how many grams of citric acid would be equal to 10mL of 37% HCl?.
chicomalo May 3rd, 2003, 01:13 AM

Diluting the H2O2 -- personally, I would dilute it to 10-15% -- would be a good idea, but it'll get past fine in a hair bleach bottle or even a bottle of standard 3% disinfectant
solution. This might be a bit of a hassle when 3% can be easily bought at your destination and concentrated.
Cold packs will get past fine, just put them in a first-aid kit. I would personally put the AN in my carry-on bag -- say you didn't have enough room in your checked bags -- as
you will avoid the bomb-sniffing dogs/machines. It's easier to explain to a human doing a random search than to a dog or machine that searches every bag. Plus, your checked
baggage will likely get yanked from your flight if the AN is detected. The acetone will have no troubles.
I wouldn't take HCl on the plane, acids and cleaners are forbidden and they'd definately be confiscated if found. I'm sure some can be bought in London (assuming you're flying
in there), it's a big city.
Often, customs relies somewhat on the honor system -- it's usually not incredibly thorough. I wouldn't expect English customs to be too extreme on a flight from the US.
xyz May 3rd, 2003, 04:10 AM

I'm not from the US and I no longer intend to take HCl with me. Thanks for the idea about the first aid kit though, that could come in very useful.
Edit: I just realised that a small bottle of H2O2 would not look out of place in a fist aid kit either.
Macgyver May 3rd, 2003, 04:37 AM

I'm not from the US and I no longer intend to take HCl with me. Thanks for the idea about the first aid kit though, that could come in very useful.
Edit: I just realised that a small bottle of H2O2 would not look out of place in a fist aid kit either.
Once upon a time when I was small, long before messing with explosives I brought a litre of nitromethane on a domestic flight, not realizing that it was something bad. But at
that time the only thing I used it for was as a fuel additive for a model airplane engine.
This was 15 years ago, so probably they didn't care that much way back then.
As for now I'd be a bit more worried about bringing anything suspicious on a plane, it's far too easy for the security people to get the wrong idea about you if you even think
about it.
Just my $0.02...
Stoic May 3rd, 2003, 06:12 AM

www.MachineMart.co.uk -hcl. Also have shops all over the country.
Anthony May 3rd, 2003, 07:48 AM

I'd bring the coldpacks with you. All the ones I've seen here have been urea based, although I haven't looked *that* hard.
I've had a quick look on Machine Mart's page, but couldn't find HCl. I presume it's as a brick cleaner? Most HCl sources here are in that form. A product name would be make
things easier for xyz. "B&Q" are a large DIY chain here, and stock brick cleaners, and 91% H2SO4 drain unblockers (might be a useful alternative if you can't find HCl).
I get my HCl as a high strength cleaner by the name of "Spirit of Salts", 32% conc from privately owned (Mom and Pop) DIY shops, they tend to sell more obscure household
cleaners.
BTW, 6 and 9% H2O2 can be bought from any highstreet chemist.
Mr Cool May 3rd, 2003, 09:18 AM

And hexamine can be obtained from all camping shops I've been in. HMTD works fine with 9% H2O2, whereas my limited experience with making AP suggests that using 9%
really doesn't work too well.
Putting a load of coldpacks in your luggage wouldn't be any risk at all. AN has no odour, and they're well sealed anyway. Dogs sniff for sensitisers (NM, nitrate esters etc),
[nitro]aromatics, stuff like that. To sensitise it, you could use AP/HMTD or acetone, petrol etc for larger/main charges.
xyz May 3rd, 2003, 11:07 PM

I don't plan on setting off anything too large when I'm there, so I won't be using ANFO.
Once again, can anyone tell me how many grams of Citric Acid is approximately equal in strength to 10mL of 37% HCl? Bringing some Citric Acid will be less of a hassle than
having to track down some HCl when I am over there.
Mic May 3rd, 2003, 11:25 PM

I'm not very good in chemistry but I think that you should find how many moles there is in 10ml of 37% HCl and to take the same number of moles of citric acid. I'm very
uncertain though..
zaibatsu May 4th, 2003, 07:17 AM

HCl is available at most large DIY stores in the UK - Focus Do It All, B&Q etc.
Citric CAN be gotten from pharmacists, Wilkos.
AN, you'd be best ordering from a supplier before you got here so it doesn't take too long to come.
Anthony May 4th, 2003, 09:19 AM

I'm not sure that citric acid can be used to catalyse AP:confused:
Stoic May 4th, 2003, 09:22 AM

IIRC, nbk did a test and AP failed to work with Citric Acid.
Monkey_Poo69 May 4th, 2003, 12:06 PM

Citric acid isn't strong enough to catalyse AP. I think boric acid can work for it, though. It can be bought from a pharmacy (I found it being sold right beside citric acid) or as
roach killer.
zaibatsu May 4th, 2003, 02:47 PM

Sorry, I was in a rush, I meant it to complete Mr Cool's list of HMTD precursors.
xyz May 5th, 2003, 08:47 AM

Are there any other "safe" acids like citric acid that can be used to catalyse AP? Preferably ones that are easy enough to get.
Otherwise it looks like my friend will be buying his HCl once he gets there. If he ends up going that is, Australia is getting more and more paranoid about SARS.
Edit: All the times that I have said "I" in this thread, I have been referring to my friend, I do that by accident sometimes:) .
Macgyver May 5th, 2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Mr Cool
And hexamine can be obtained from all camping shops I've been in. HMTD works fine with 9% H2O2, whereas my limited experience with making AP suggests that using 9%
really doesn't work too well.
Putting a load of coldpacks in your luggage wouldn't be any risk at all. AN has no odour, and they're well sealed anyway. Dogs sniff for sensitisers (NM, nitrate esters etc),
[nitro]aromatics, stuff like that. To sensitise it, you could use AP/HMTD or acetone, petrol etc for larger/main charges.
While speaking of HMTD, I might add that acetic acid (60% or higher) works better than citric acid, and you will not have to worry as much about cooling the mix as when you
use citric acid. A good place to find acetic acid is where they sell chemicals to develop your own photographs, as acetic acid is used in that process and they often carry the 98-
99% acetic acid.
Monkey_Poo69 May 5th, 2003, 01:07 PM

xyz, as I said before, boric acid is safe and is used for things other than roach killer. It is bought at the pharmacy. Just ask the person where boric acid is in the store and they'll
show you. It's safe and I dont think it'll be a problem.
xyz May 6th, 2003, 06:33 AM

OK then, do you have any idea how strong it is compared to HCl?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > AP vs. HMTD - Which is the most sensitive?
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Maybe some of you read parts of the thread about exploding pellets for air/co2 guns in the improvised weapons section.
This is what got me to wonder about the sensitivity of AP vs. HMTD, since I have always believed AP to be more impact sensitive than HMTD.
But after those experiments, I have found out that at least when it comes to impact sensitivity HMTD is far more sensitive than AP!!!
Four equal pellets were filled with the same amounts, two with AP and two with HMTD.
When fired at metal surfaces, both pellet types explode, but when fired on a somewhat softer surface such as tree or a phonebook, only HMTD is sensitive enough to explode.
But maybe this is because AP is more sensitive to friction than shock?
xyz May 3rd, 2003, 04:15 AM

I think that AP is somewhat more sensitive to flame/sparks but then again I have only made HMTD a few times and I don't have much experince with it.
The reason that people usually say that AP is more sensitive is because AP forms much larger crystals than HMTD. HMTD does not suffer from the sublimation problem either.

I think that AP is somewhat more sensitive to flame/sparks but then again I have only made HMTD a few times and I don't have much experince with it.
The reason that people usually say that AP is more sensitive is because AP forms much larger crystals than HMTD. HMTD does not suffer from the sublimation problem either.
I think you are right on that, HMTD crystals are definitively smaller.
Hmm, think I am going to make a small test right away, since I have both AP & HMTD stored in small amounts.
Result: When approached with a lit match AP ignites much sooner than the HMTD does.
Only thing I haven't compared so far is the friction sensitivity, but I think I remember AP as beoing more sensitive to friction than HMTD if I am not mistaken.
Funny thing is I have always been more afraid of AP than HMTD. But one thing I can say is that HMTD is no problem for long term storage, I have some that is far older than 6
months, still works fine. :D
jfk May 3rd, 2003, 04:50 AM

well i make HTMD 24/7 im a real fan, ive only made AP three times and it less powerfull than AP in the same ammount. i make my AP ofer 2 hours of addition at 0 degrees,
im yet to ever set it off with a hammer or friction. however it is easier ot set off than HTMD so must be more sensitive
xyz May 3rd, 2003, 11:24 PM

jfk, AP is difficult to set off with a hammer, it takes a very solid whack and even then it doesn't always go off.
Macgyver May 3rd, 2003, 11:40 PM

I haven't dared to try this yet, but probably a good idea to test AP's friction sensitivity would be to place a small grain between two pieces of sandpaper and rub them against
each other.
If you ever try this, use only a small grain of AP and make sure to wear proper protection...
xyz May 4th, 2003, 04:03 AM

If you do try it, use a tiny amount and wear hearing protection and a face shield.
0EZ0 May 5th, 2003, 12:31 AM

xyz, could you provide a little more information on your tests of shock sensitivity?
If anyone has a reference of shock sensitivity of an explosive compound, please include such specifics as what surface you place the test sample on, what you hit it with, how
hard you hit it and what kind of reaction you witnessed of the test sample. It helps other people to not misinterpret what you say. Such misinterpretation of information can
lead to quite nasty accidents. And if indeed your report shows any misunderstanding of the results, other members can help to clear it up so that you keep all of your fingers
intact :D .
I say this because of how you test a sample can indeed effect the results. Try testing the shock sensitivity of AP on a variety of surfaces using a metal hammer of choice. Make
sure all test samples come from the same batch of explosive compound. Exercise caution and wear appropriate protective equipment . Surfaces to test should include
something like the following. Eg. on a wooden surface (block of wood), on uneven surfaced concrete (pedestrian pavement), on brick paving, on smooth concrete (garage
floor) and on a solid metal surface such as an anvil. Record the results and draw your own personal conclusion. The results are destined to vary ;) .
Back to the discussion at hand...
Personally I have never even contemplated making either of the explosive peroxides listed :) . But I would suggest that HMTD would be less subject to flame, shock, and
friction sensitivity as AP. AP is more volatile and tends to evapourate quite substantially over time, provided the temperature is stable. Storing AP in a closed container should be
avoided, as the AP can evapourate and condense crystals around the lid of the container. The effect is enhanced when stored at a heightened temperature. Just the action of
removing the lid and subsequent stress on the crystals can cause the AP to explode. HMTD is also subject to volatilization but much less so than AP and is only really noticed at
elevated temperatures.
AP is less reactive in that it does not usually form dangerous compounds on contact with metals or similiar foreign materials. Provided that the sample is relatively pure and free
of chemicals from manufacture. HMTD on the other hand is quite reactive and prone to explosive decomposition when it comes into contact with most metals and some other
foreign materials. Usually due to heating up of the sample as it reacts with the material it is in contact with.
HMTD mostly displays a heightened sensitivity when in an acidic environment. AP seems not to display such a noticeable rise in sensitivity. But I would still make sure that after
manufacture, both compounds are treated to bring the Ph to neutral.
As for crystal size, AP usually forms larger crystals than HMTD. Storing AP over time wet, or damp may cause crystals to amalgamate into a single mass or into larger crystals.
Larger crystals = more sensitive to shock and friction, while probably having an enhanced Deflagration to Detonation transition as well. If the crystals are brought back to a
smaller size, sensitivity should be reduced substantially. Reducing crystal size by crushing is not advised!
HMTD does not seem to show any rise in crystal size during storage. Although different people may have had different experiences.
When ignited by flame in open air, without external confinement, in small amounts (sub gram), AP deflagrates producing a visible fireball. When amounts larger than
approximately 3 grams, the AP can go from Deflagration to Detonation causing an audible bang to be heard and subsequent destruction of the surface it was placed on. HMTD
seems only to deflagrate in open air. It is less likely to go from Deflagration to Detonation than AP unless tested in much larger amounts than 3grams.
When heated over a flame, AP melts into a liquid then can visibly form vapour leaving the sample. When heated higher it detonates with all it's intensity, usually destroying or
damaging the surface it was heated on. I have no reference as to how HMTD behaves in the same environment. But I suspect it would detonate similarly if heated above a
flame.
Both AP and HMTD have little trouble going from Deflagration to Detonation with the aid of confinement. To enhance the speed of detonation, pressing the compounds into a
suitable container certainly helps. Again, exercise caution and wear appropriate safety equipment if attempting such things.
If testing, only ever use very small amounts, as in sub gram quatities. Never underestimate the power explosives contain and how little outside manipulation it takes to unleash
their fury. I don't condone the clandestine manufacture of explosives. All information written is strictly for theoretical use. Take part in experiments at your own risk.
Please do correct any mistakes I may have made or offer any further comments on the subject.
Hope that answers a few questions :)
John Ashcroft May 6th, 2003, 02:21 AM

Those who are not able to detonate their acetone peroxide with a hammer blow must either have two twigs extending from their torso, or, unbeknownst to them, have failed
to completely dry their product. I've found that acetone peroxide is relatively easy to detonate by smacking with a hammer (relative to detonating sensitive secondaries such
as picric acid with a hammer blow, that is).
The sensitivity of acetone peroxide prepared at room temperature is *vastly* greater than the sensitivity of acetone peroxide prepared in temperatures below 0C. It detonates
with a light rap of the hammer.
Wet acetone peroxide is considerably less sensitive than its dry counterpart. Usually it'll just splatter when shocked, or merely offer a feeble bang.
xyz May 6th, 2003, 06:41 AM

xyz, could you provide a little more information on your tests of shock sensitivity?
The AP was on a concrete surface and about 0.1g was used, Only a reasonably small hammer was used though. It usually detonates when struck hard.
There would have been minimal (if any) moisture content in the AP but there could have been some.
Still, I don't advise anyone to go around whacking AP with hammers unless they want a hammer sticking out of their face.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > critical pre ssure
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mongo blongo May 3rd, 2003, 09:12 PM

I thought i would post this here because it's not e&w related.
I have something which is con fusing the fuck out of me. I have obtained a refrigerant which i will be using for an improvised
freezing apparatus. It is 1,1,1 ,2-tetrafluoroethane, AKA HFC-134a, Freon 134a, SU VA-134a Genetron-134a, Forane-134a KLEA-
134a etc.
It's critical pressure is known to be 588 psi which is a sh it load of pressure. Well, i have obtained it in the form of an aerosol
spra y called "Freez-It" which is used fo r freezing electrical com p o n e n t s . T he conte nts is a liquid and it is very pure! The data
s h e e t c a n b e found at http://www.farnell.com / d a t a s h e e t s / 8 5 9 4 . p d f
I thought no way could an aerosol can stand up to 588 psi!! The can is a little bit thicker than norm al aerosols but still..
I thought I would check the pressure m yself an d I found it to be 115 psi !
I was defiantly m easuring the pressure of the liquid.
So does anyone know how it could possibly be a liquid at 115 psi which is well below the known critical pressure??
nbk2000 May 4th, 2003, 02:13 AM

I f I r e m e m ber correctly, critica l pressure is the highest pressure that will keep a gas liquified at its critical temperatu re, above
which no am ount of p ressure will liquify the gas.
So, if the critical tem p of the chemical was 100C, then a t 100C the pressure would have to b e 5 8 8 P S I t o k e e p t h e g a s l i q u i f i e d ,
but at 101C , the pressure could be 2,000PSI and it wouldn't be able to keep it liq uid.
mongo blongo May 4th, 2003, 12:26 PM

yea it works both ways. If the pressure was anything below 588 psi then it is im possible to keep it a liquid no matter what the
temp is. it could be -500 deg c at 587 psi and it couldn't becom e a liquid . this is compleatly against m y findings as it was liq uid
at room temp at 115 psi. i think i'm going crazy.
Sparky May 4th, 2003, 01:04 PM

This is just a shot in the dark, but if you're sure of what it is and of the critical pressure, m aybe it is like acetylene. That is to
s a y d i s s o l v e d i n a s o l v e n t a n d p o s s i b l y a b s o r b e d i n s o m ething. I suppose you're sure it's a liquid and not just a com p r e s s e d
gas? Easy enough to tell by shaking the can I guess.
rikkitikkitavi May 4th, 2003, 02:17 PM

m ongo blongo , you have missunderstood it slightly.
a g a s c a n e x ist as a liquid below its critical pressure, water is one exampel (374 C, 227 bar)
what critical point (temperature, pressure) defines is at what point the ga s and liq uid has identical enthalpy. it also m ean s th at
t h e l i q u i d a n d g a s h a s s i m ilar densities at that point, hence there is no differnce between them .
F e x , if boiling water is boilin g under pressure, you can see a p h a s e b o u n d a r y b e t w e e n s t e a m and water. If temperature and
pressure is increased , this ph a s e b o u n d a r y d i s a p p e a r s @ 3 7 4 C , 227 bar, it will turn into a homogenous m ix.
The pressure in your aerosol can is the vapour pressure if the freon at am bient temperature,which appears to be 115 psi (th is
can be found in tables fex on the internet) ,care taken for m e a s u r e m ent errors.
/rick ard
mongo blongo May 4th, 2003, 11:28 PM

rikkitikkitavi- thanks for clearing that up for m e d u d e ! i t s e e m s that m y sources of info were far from incom plete. I knew there
was som ething wrong with that. :) well on with my experim entation. This new info has give n rise to a new problem for m e
though!
now I don't know what pressure to fill up m y refrigerant system with! :D (see post called "freezing at low tem ps")

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Largest Detonation
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View Full Version : Largest Detonation

Im just curious as to the largest detonation forum m e m bers have achived.
P e r s o n a l y I a m l u c k y e n o u g h t o h a v e h a d t h e m ilitary to thank for the oppertunity to do a 1000LB shot of various O rdnance
with a MK84 2000LB bomb prim ed at the bottom . The Shockwave from that felt great 1 m ile away.:D :D :D
W hen I get out of this shitty country and back to Germ any ill post som e pics of it.
xyz May 3rd, 2003, 11:27 PM

1Kg of cap sensitive ANFO deep in the forest. I would like set off a 20Kg ANFO charge but I don't h ave a su itable place to do
so (it's kind of loud you know :)) .
EP May 3rd, 2003, 11:32 PM

W hich of the many m e t h o d s d i d y o u u s e t o m a ke your ANFO cap sensitive?
My biggest is here:
http://krim z o n p y r o . c o m / e p / m ediadir/5lbm e k p a n . h t m l
a n d a n o t h e r v i d e o h e re:
http://krim z o n p y r o . c o m / e p / m e d i a d i r / a n m e k p . w m v
The sound in the first video is accurate, the sound in the one directly above is totally off. I was surprised at how sharp it was
but I guess that's from t h e 6 0 0 m L o f M E K P .
xyz May 4th, 2003, 03:58 AM

I powdered the AN to the consistency of flour using an electric co ffee grinder, it needs a large (3g) cap though. It works
s o m etimes with a 1g cap but you usua lly get in com plete detonations with a 1g cap.
zeocrash May 4th, 2003, 07:01 AM

the biggest detonatio n in forum record s i b e l i e v e w a s d o n e b y s p y d a m o n key. (the post is in the HE sections som ewhere)
IIR C it was 1 0kg of ANFO , with a 1kg APAN booster. the pictures and vids on the ftp are quite im pressive.
metafractal May 4th, 2003, 07:45 AM

W a s n ' t t h e r e s o m e m e m b e r t a l k i n g a b o u t d e m l o s h i n g a n o l d s t o n e b u i l d i n g o r s o m e t h i n g with a 100kg ANFO charge? Anyone
know what ever came of this?
kingspaz May 4th, 2003, 08:16 AM

there was another guy who beat spydam o n k e y t h o u g h . h e d e t o n a t e d 5 0 l b o f A N F O . t h i n k i t m a y h a v e b e e n shockwave but i
can't really rem ember. the vid eo is in quicktim e format on the ftp.
a_bab May 4th, 2003, 08:34 AM

W hat is it called ?
My personal record is 2 kg ANFO+400 grams ANNM booster (far too m uch but I wanted to get rid of it). A friend of m ine was
supposed to shot it but the fucker failed due to nervous tension so I only have the crater pictures.:m ad:
Cyclonite May 4th, 2003, 06:48 PM

I a m going to try to get some nice pics of destroyed buildings and results of explosions on the way up to Iraq (possibly a
body) If anyones interested ill post them .
darkdontay May 4th, 2003, 11:54 PM

Sounds like either a Kewl or Cop style question..
I would watch what of our Dreams we share.. Ah hell screw it :P
Cyclonite May 5th, 2003, 01:28 AM

Kewl or cop style, hows that? If thats what you wish to think. I dont see h ow it cou ld be constrewed as either... I can think of
few things in life better than a good ol high ord er detonation. I like to sh are my experiances with others. Theres nothing
incrim inating in sharing vauge experiances with eachoth er
THErAPIST May 5th, 2003, 02:50 AM

First off one m ust realize that my neighborhood starts about 60 meters from m y blasting site (the nearest house is about 70
m eters away)... W ith that said, 200g P A under 2 feet of water with a 3g HMTD cap. Great fun but I dun think I'll be doin
anything that big aga in... Until the fourth of July anyways :D
ALENGOSVIG1 May 5th, 2003, 03:26 AM

It was Kinepak who detonated 50 lb of ANFO.
kingspaz May 5th, 2003, 05:51 PM
cyclonite, would be nice to see som e pics.
thanks alen, the video is a great download though. i love watching it!
mizzu October 2nd, 2006, 08:06 PM

Y e a r s a g o , I h a d a c c u m u l a t e d about 100 lbs to tal of germ a n b l a c k p o w d e r e d a l u m i n u m , p o t a s s i u m perchlo rate and m olybdium
di-sulfide. I needed to get rid of it due to m e worrying about it lighting off on its own. Long story short load ed it into 2.5" X 4'
sections of galvanized pipe with crushed bulb detonators and lowered them into a m ostly em p t y u n d e r g r o u n d g a s o l i n e s t o r a g e
t a n k a t a v e r y r e m o t e a b a n d o ned fillin g station in west texas. Layed out about 100yards of wire and a fello w pyro & I hid
behind rock wall and lit it off with auto ignition. I still rem ember what see med like a slow/fast motion shock wave & fireball not
to m e n t i o n s o m e pretty scary fall-out. I have often pondered the math o f that m ixture considering a p p x 1 0 0 g a l o f r e s i d u a l
g a s o l i n e a n d vapors.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Legality of casting molds for full auto receivers
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View Full Version : Legality of casting molds for full auto receivers
A43tg37 May 5th, 2003, 11:00 PM

A person has been known to make molds for investment casting (in aluminum and aluminum alloys) things like model car parts, gears, and parts for old projectors (fairly high
precision, actually). This individual wonders if it w ould be legal to produce investment casting molds for full auto receivers, as long as he doesn't produce the receivers
themselves with said molds. He has checked the ATF's w ebsite and a few other legal references and found nothing yet on this being illegal by the letter of the law; but wants to
be sure; he slso wonders if it would be legal to sell the molds. He figures that if selling full auto receiver blueprints, discussing online how to build the jigs to make torch-cut
receivers "live" again, making videos of how to make the jigs, and selling someone w ho has an 80% receiver in hand a milling machine, are all perfectly legal actions, then
what he plans to do should be perfectly legal too, he just wants to be sure...is this the case?
Mmanwitgun88 May 6th, 2003, 12:41 AM

You can have a million castings, a milling machine, full auto blue prints and how to video's in your house and its perfectly legal. Of course if a judge is truly crooked he could
bust you on criminal intent, but don't be a fucking jackass you'll be fine. Of course making fully auto recievers is illegal and w ill get you 8 yrs minimum ass rape, if your lucky
that is. Manufactur of an illegal firearm is extremly illegal. You don't need FA anyways, stick with semi auto and learn how to shoot. Most of the times in FA you just waste
ammo. If you make a casting FA I will come to kick your ass, this is a legit hobby and I don't want it being ruined because someone wants to take it to the next level. You can
make a gun FA in a matter of minutes, why have it like that "just in case".
~Dave
nbk2000 May 6th, 2003, 03:15 AM

Rather than selling the molds themselves, sell the wax casting that is made from the mold.
Not only w ould it be cheaper for someone to buy the wax casting (for lost-w ax) than a machined metal mold, but would also mean they'd have to buy a new one for every
receiver they w ished to make. It'd also prevent someone from making hundreds of receivers themselves and doing something with them that may backfire on you.
The w ax castings could be for a completely full-auto receiver and still be legal, since the wax casting can't be used (or even imagined) as a receiver for an actual weapon as-is.
To make it a working weapons receiver would require a forge for melting metal, refractory ceramics for coating the casting, and the skill to use them. :)
'Course, once that requirement w as met, someone could turn out a fully operational full-auto receiver w ith only minimal touch up required. :D
zaibatsu May 6th, 2003, 11:45 AM

First, I just want to confirm that you know making your own firearm in the US is legal as long as it is legal for you to own it. How ever you can't sell these firearms you make.
Apologies if you already know this.
Also, the difference between FA and SA recievers is very little - w hy bother producing FA recievers that w ill always be FA and not produce SA recievers w hich can either be SA or
modified to FA??
A43tg37 May 7th, 2003, 04:58 AM

zaibatsu:
Yeah, I already knew that, thanks to a discussion at a few 80% receiver sites. Oh, and obviously the individual w ishing to produce these molds or wax castings would certainly
include semi-auto capability in any FA "paraffin receiver" (or like you suggested, semi-autos that can be easily modified).
NBK:
Good idea on the w ax casting of the receiver instead of the molds themselves. Howver, that begets an important question: Why and how are the wax receivers themselves
legal? Granted, to someone like you, I, or probably anyone on the Forum, it makes perfect sense for simple pieces of wax to be legal. I wonder what ATF would think,
though...w ould they treat it as legal (like teh way 1/4 replicas of FA's are legal...by virtue of a physical characteristic-size-they are legal...ideally, ATF w ould classify these wax
receivers as legal too, by virtue of a physical characteristic-being far too soft to be used like a normal receiver. However, I don't necessarily think they would look at them as
"non-fireams" like 80% receivers and solid ornamental receivers/paperw eights are considered, because they could (theoretically) have actual FA parts affixed to them as a
machine gun, and therefore meet the definition of a receiver (I can't find anything in ATF's rules saying that to be classified as a receiver, it has to be metal). I hope they
wouldn't classify them as "unserviceable firearms" even though they meet the definition, i.e. "incapable of discharging a shot by means of an explosive and which is incapable
of being readily restored to a firing condition"...that w ould suck, because "unserviceable firerms" don't require any tax payment, background check, or even the ability to legally
ow n a real firearm, but they DO require registration w ith the ATF. I think further investigation is w arranted, and perhaps the individual who originally wanted to make the
receivers or the molds will query ATF (not using his real e-mail or real physical address, of course) on the exact legal status of a receiver that's a real FA receiver in all but one
respect, that being the fact that it's made of wax instead of metal....hmmm...mabye this individual w ants to do a waxworks museum type of display that's as realistic as
possible, but doesn't w ant any to use any evil, horrible, scary, actual firearms...:p Yup, that's why. ;)
blacktalon May 8th, 2003, 03:53 AM

1. My good man, the only legal difference in a FA receiver and a SA receiver is that one extra 3/32" hole for the auto sear pin to go in just above the selector. Now , most
companies (DPMS, Bushmaster, Colt, Olympic) leave an excess of metal in the area where the auto sear would go to prevent easy instillation, but I don't believe they aren't
required to do that. Now I could be underestimating your casting capabilities, but isn't that hole a little small to be w orrying about? (80% receivers start out as castings and then
they are drilled with the aid of a jig. I have never seen a receiver with all the holes cast in it.) So why w ouldn't you just make your wax casting in SA?
2. A better idea would be to produce the 80% receivers and also the drilling jigs to finish them. (when you have an 80% all that is left is drilling the holes for the fire control
group and taping the ring at the rear of the receiver for the recoil spring tube and stock.) If you insist on making FA parts, all you w ould have to do is put one extra hole in your
jig, which is legal to sell without a permit. :D
You should watch the idea of a w ax 100%. With the w ay everything is going to polymer these days, you could end up pissing the BATF off with that one even though you and I
know it couldn't be used realistically.
nbk2000 May 8th, 2003, 05:29 AM

...most companies (DPMS, Bushmaster, Colt, Olympic) leave an excess of metal in the area where the auto sear would go to prevent easy installation.
Which is why I said:
...someone could turn out a fully operational full-auto receiver with only minimal touch up required.
Since the wax version wouldn't have that "extra" metal, you'd only need to drill a single hole, rather than machine/file out the "extra" metal. Drilling one hole is minimal
touchup. :)
To cast the internal voids (like magazine well) would require that there be ceramic cores in place when the w ax model is originally made. Attempting to remove them from the
wax model would cause it to break. Only after the wax was replaced with metal would it be possible to break them out without also breaking the receiver.
As for legality, the wax version w ouldn't be able to hold any parts, since it'd have studs w here they'd be holes, and vice-versa, so mounting parts is impossible. Even if it was
possible to statically mount the parts, the moment the action was operated, the wax would be deformed and all parts w ould go out of alingment, making actual firing
impossible.
EVEN in the REMOTE possibility of somehow assembling it in ready-to-fire condition, it w ould instantly Ka-Boom upon firing, killing/maiming anyone stupid enough to hold it, as
well as destroying it beyond any repair.
But the whole notion of slug throw ing firearms is rather antiquated now. Technology rocks on, eh? Within a few decades, directed energy and EM w ill become feasible infantry
weapons, making the idea of a slug-thrower rather archaic.
I saw a patent for a hypervelocity rocket design that seems so fucking simple, you w onder why no one ever thought of it before. 5,000-12,000FPS using common smokeless
powder, no moving parts, and made from common steels using simple machining processes.
(I've described this before, so I feel rather tiresome of repeating myself, but the idea is stuck in my brain so bear with me.)
Skip the bullshit of existing firearm designs and use "Leap Ahead" technology. The gyrojet w as decades ahead of its time, but modern technology makes it even more lethal,
and practical today then ever before.
Simplify the HVR (HyperVelocity Rocket) design to something you could turn out with a drill press and steel bar stock, create a wax model of a simple (multi-shot) launcher for
the HVR, and sell a kit that includes plans/wax model/and some bar stock.
There's NO restrictions on selling either plans, nor inert steel stock, or even a wax model of a "hypothetical" design for a "flare launcher" no one has ever seen before (or
remembers). :D
Great thing about laws are that they can't ban things that no one yet knows exists. It's only AFTER something bad happens with it that someone creates a law banning it.
If someone should happen to follow the plans, and make a casting from the wax model, then they'd have a large caliber/hand-held/recoilless HVR "flare" launcher that'd throw
(after burnout) 220 grain (1/2oz) shells with a KE of 31,200 foot-pounds (assuming 8,000FPS).
I mean, Christ, a .50BMG has less than 10,000 foot-pounds, so how many .50s worth of impact w ould your completely legal and unregulated "flare" launcher have, when
directed against cars/body armor/concrete walls/LAV's? All in something light enough, and small enough, to carry in your pocket. :eek:
Eventually, someone w ould bring it to Feinsteins attention, though hopefully not until tens of thousands of the "flare" launcher castings have been sold, as w ell as the plans and
CAD files distributed over the 'net, and piggy torsos are getting exploded (literally) by nearly silent HVR's fired at them by 13 year old ghetto dwelling 'hoodies, the rockets
zipping through cop body armor like a hypersonic knife through hot pig lard.
By the time they get around to banning it, you've already established a reputation for yourself as an innovator (or menace to society), created a new industry (legal or
underground), given the politicians a case of the shits, and made the pigs realize their vests are useless as protection...and so are their cars...and reinforced concrete walls...and
buildings...:p
Ahh...a sweet dream.
A-BOMB May 8th, 2003, 08:52 AM

NBK I like how you think! It gives me somelike of feeling of some sort like one w here your laughing you head off in a movie theater as you see the burning pig stagger out of
his burning car onfire :D And on the subjuect of gyrojets I just saw something at the hardware store that would make a outer casing for a gryojet round it a zinc or brass end
fixture for some thing or another I'll pick some up next time I'm there, If these casing are strong anothe to hold the gasses from the cartridge they would make the prefect
gyrojet round. The only part that w ould be a problem is the base you wouuld have to make a jig to hold the base at the right angle while you drilled the vent hole but that too
would be semi-easy.
nbk2000 May 8th, 2003, 08:17 PM

Brass or zinc would be too soft to be useable as a gyrojet shell. Internal pressures can be over 30,000PSI, w hich is why strong steels are needed.
Also, the problem with the old gyro's, was the canted ports. Unless they're EXACTLY symetrical, the variance of one port causes an oscillation in the rocket, which is the reason
the originals w eren't very (or even semi) accurate.
The MLRS method of studs 'n rails would be more suitable. No ports to drill, no loss in velocity from the diversion of propellant gases to induce rotation, and simplified launcher
design.
Also, one of the reason for bothering w ith spin stabilization in the first place, w as because the original g-rockets didn't burn all their propellant till they w ere well downrange. This
allowed for wind cocking, which was magnified by the continued acceleration.
The HVR, on the other hand, burns it's entire propellant load in under 10 milliseconds. And this was with rockets using pounds of propellant! I'd imagine less than an ounce would
only take 1 or 2 milliseconds to burn. As long as the propellant is completely burned by the time the HVR exits the barrel, then spin stabilization isn't needed. Which is good,
because the design isn't intended as a precision sniping w eapon, but as a simple weapon of major power.
And, because the things are so fast, leading of moving targets is very simple...you don't.
If a pocket HVR w as assumed to have an 8,000 FPS velocity, and an effective range of 100 meters, than a car moving across your LOS at 100 meters at 100MPH w ould only
move 5 feet in the time it'd take the HVR to cross the gap. Aim at the passenger compartment and you're going to hit it. :D

VERY interesting!
To achieve such an incredibly short burn time, is the propellent a loosely packed powder ratehr than a solid grain?
I'm thinking of something (easily improvisable to start with) using empty CO2 capsules. Formed steel nozzle, with the nose filled with lead. It w ouldn't hold 30kpsi, but even a
fraction of 8kfps w ould be a mean toy to start out with :)
nbk2000 May 9th, 2003, 01:45 AM

The patent is 5,440,993
It uses loose SP. The flakes "float" on the gases created by its combustion, allow ing for extremely rapid burning, but the rocket only works if it's moving. Reason is that the
propellant grains inertia keeps it inside of the rocket, against the outflowing combustion gases, otherwise they're blown out unburned. So no static firing is possible.
Also, the large rockets mentioned in the patent (155mm anti-tank) burned their propellant charges in less than 2 feet of travel. :eek: This created:
a large rearward flame was observed thus requiring that the rear of the launch tube be kept clear of personnel. In the case of firing from a gun tube, blast shields may be
required for personnel protection.
A couple dozen pounds of SP burning in a few milliseconds? I bet THAT was a huge ass fucking fireball! :) Though the smaller HVR's would only have a fraction of an ounce, it'd
still likely create a nasty fireball like that from a .50BMG, only larger. :eek: I'd think some w ay of venting the blast to the side would be a good idea, unless you build it as a
bazooka type weapon that sits over the shoulder.
I don't think a CO2 powerlet w ould work, because the HVR design creates over 30,000 PSI of internal pressure, while CO2 tanks are burst rated to only 3,000PSI, below which
they'll deform. I don't think a powerlet is even close to that.
Also, the design requires a nozzle that protrudes almost to the very front of the rockets internal chamber, to seperate the gas w hile retaining the propellant grains.
nbk2000 May 13th, 2003, 04:41 AM

While perusing my vast archive of reference materials, I ran across this case citation that upholds the premise that a device (in our case a w ax receiver) isn't a firearm, even if
technically capable of firing one shot, if any sane person wouldn't dare try it.
U.S. v. Brady, 710 F.Supp. 290 (D.Colo. 1989)

In this case Brady is charged with possessing an unregistered AOW weapon, a coyote getter. The coyote getter is sort of like the "Game Getter" guns of the pre-1934 era,
except that it is very lightly constructed, as it only uses a primed .38 special case to fire a cyanide capsule into the mouth of the animal tugging at the bait. The old game getter
type guns fired a real bullet, to kill the animal.
As even the ATF expert was too cautious to fire the gun with a real round of ammo, the court decides the thing is not an AOW, as while it is strictly speaking capable of
discharging a shot (a primed .38 case with a bullet, the bullet went a few feet), it is not capable of using regular ammo. The court points out that in a number of old Revenue
Rulings ATF ruled based on whether the device in question could use conventional ammo. Without requiring that the thing be able to do so, without suffering structural failure,
would bring a whole host of items under the definition, says the court, like a hammer and nail. Things no sane person w ould use to fire a shot should not be considered capable
of doing so, even if they theoretically can, says the court.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > DNP(dinitrophenol)
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View Full Version : DNP(dinitrophenol)
mpeter15 May 6th, 2003, 06:56 PM

I was wondering if anyone here could outline a procedure for ma king dinitrophenol, I'm not talking a b o u t
DDNP(diazod initrophenol). W ould it be just as sim ple as nitrating phenol with nitric acid? Dinitrophenol is otherwise known as
DNP and is used as a fat burner by body builde rs.
knowledgehungry May 6th, 2003, 07:36 PM

I believe that the reaction of HNO3 on phenol gives you TRInitrophenol, which is preferrab le over the DNP anyway.
mongo blongo May 7th, 2003, 11:28 AM

http://www.sciencema dness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=320
mpeter15 May 7th, 2003, 02:56 PM

t h a n k s m o n g o b l o n g o ! I ' m no t quite sure I understand all that the procedure entails, but I'm sure I can fin d out what certain
things mean by searching a little bit.:D

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Why the w orld needs the anarchists cookbook
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View Full Version : Why the world needs the anarchists cookbook
WogBoy May 7th, 2003, 02:05 AM

It is my belief that books like the anarchists cookbook/terrorists handbook/jolly roger's cookbook
are a necessity in today's world of terrorism
if it werent for these books, the people who are just "wannabe" pyros/terrorists/towelheads would not have access to dangerous stuff that just may stop the world from seeing
one more bin Laden
in the hands of an amateur, these "recipes" for destruction can help to kill off all of those little bitty weeners who think they can blow up a building just cause theyve got a
grudge against the post office
think about this: 17 year old nerd who doesnt have any friends, hates his school, teachers call him an "underachiever", and tell him that if he doesnt do his work he'll never
amount to anything, anyw ay, one day he has this kewl plan to blow up his school, w ith all the little teenyboppers and teachers inside it. he finds this "magical" book on the
internet called the terrorists handbook, and decides to brew up nitroglycerin in his mummy's kitchen. everything gets a little bit hot and BOOM! no more little Jimmy. all over the
news, a tragedy that could have been avoided, but one that was necessary in order to save the lives of many hundreds of students, not that anyone else w ould ever know this
Just a snippit from the tw isted corridors of my brain.
Flake2m May 7th, 2003, 07:53 AM

While there is a valid point to what yo are saying you haven't thought about the possible repocussions of little Jimmys "experiment".
Firstly. When the authorities have finished cleaning up the remains of little Jimmy, the authorities will make out that this guy is a pyschopath once they find the "terrorists
cookbook" on his computer and/or the journal he had describing how much he hated the school.
Secondly. Little Jimmy's Mum will embark on a crusade to get anything that is a chemical banned because she lost her looser son and dooesn't w ant anyone to know the
difference betw een glycerine and glucose.
Thirdly. The press will have a field day. Once they find out that he had the "terrorists cookbook" on his computer and they combine it w ith the fact that he didn't have much of a
social life or he had different political views. They will not only make out he is a psychopath, but also that he is the next Osama and that people like him shouldn't be allow ed to
have been born. They will also blame the parents for allow ing little jimmy to experiment with NG.
Also, You aren't likely to remain a member of Rogue Science if you post new topics as a new bie.
Bitter May 7th, 2003, 10:06 AM

Yes, don't post new topics unless you have made a considerable number of replies to existing ones. Many people have been banned in the past for doing that. Perhaps a topic
of this nature would be better off in the water cooler, but I'll leave it here and see what the other mods think.

Yeah, I think I'll move it to the water cooler. If anyone thinks otherw ise, just move it back :).
megalomania May 7th, 2003, 01:14 PM

One day I will have to compile all of these crapbooks together just so we can all pour through them and refute the claims. Perhaps w e can do good by removing the inacuarices
in an objective and scientific manner. Perhaps we can disabuse little jimmy that there is anything remotly close to an "easy to make home explosive" just w aiting to be built by
some kew l.
Has anyone heard the rumor that such books were actually w ritten by the CIA as disinformation manuals intentionally including egregious errors just to trip up potential kew ls?
One does w onder why nobody has ever w ritten corrections for all the crap considering these books have been floating around for 20 years.
Polverone May 7th, 2003, 03:42 PM

Perhaps w e can disabuse little jimmy that there is anything remotly close to an "easy to make home explosive" just waiting to be built by some kewl.
What w ould you call acetone peroxide and APAN? They seem to fit the bill pretty well to me. You can make them in an afternoon w ith less than $20 worth of materials from
ordinary retail products.
I think that there is a real gap waiting to be filled: a cookbook that w orks, w ith valid scientific/technical information included but also detailed directions that can be followed by
anyone w ho's literate. There's no particular reason you need to be a trained chemist to make explosives, any more than you need to be a trained chef to bake a cake. The
problem is that so far, most correct published information assumes a technical background on the part of the reader and most simplified published information is flawed. The
closest thing I can think of to "Correct Explosives Manufacture for Non-Chemists Who Can Follow Directions" is Uncle Fester's Home Workshop Explosives, w hich is actually a
pretty good book and written in a humorous style. It's also somewhat outdated, too US-centric (no hints for obtaining materials in other countries or metric units), and covers
only a few explosives.
But making such a book w ould take some time and effort. Apart from the effort that goes into comprehensively testing procedures, writing up results in an easy-to-understand
format, proofreading, and illustrating such a book (or electronic document), one also has to contend with the preexisting publicity for low-quality stuff like the Terrorist's
Handbook and Anarchist's Cookbook. On the other hand, much of the information you'd need is already sitting in postings on the Forum or in the brains of its members.
Somebody with chemical knowledge will always have the advantage in this realm, but it's still possible to give most of the same pow er to the "unwashed" non-chemist types. In
my ideal fantasy w orld, it'd even stop people bitching about how dangerous guns are, w hen John Q. Angry can just as easily use high explosives as a pistol.
zeocrash May 7th, 2003, 03:50 PM

I'm planning to steal my mates copy od the ACB, try out the recipies, and document my failure. look out for detailed and humourous write ups soon
Spudkilla May 7th, 2003, 05:54 PM

Zero's A-Files seem to fit the 'so easy to understand, my blind granny could make explosives with it' bill. I uploaded a PDF copy of it to the ftp a while ago. It is really easy to
understand, even for somebody w ho doesn't know the difference between glycerin and glucose, or ammonium nitrate and potassium nitrate. And w hat about NBK's PDF? That is
pretty good too, but I don't think it goes under the category of "cookbook". BTW, has anyone tried the chloroform procedure his PDF has?
++ ++++ +++ ++++ +++ ++++ ++++ +
I have, and it works, thank you very much. The 2nd Ed. of the PDF (now a DVD) will be including a revised version of the process that is much better.
NBK
++ ++++ +++ ++++ +++ ++++ ++++ +

Polverone, why would we give the kewls something that actually works?
They're going to blow themselves or other people up and the only result w ill be chemicals getting banned and chemistry getting a bad name AGAIN!
Until now, one was only able to make explosives when he/she had the necessary amount of determination, intelligence and willingness to learn.
Such a book would defeat these requirements and will allow the most stupid fuck to commit a serious act of terrorism.
hodehum May 7th, 2003, 08:33 PM

This is why the world doesn t need the ACB and suc h
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/3007751.stm
A N ortham ptonshire man who was fascinated w ith explosives blew hims elf up after putting a home-made pipe bomb in his m outh and lighting the fus e
The bomb, which might have been created using instruc tions from a book on explosives
Retarded acts like this as has been said before time and time again only provoke enforced regulations regarding the sales of chem icals and precursors

The depths of human stupidity never fail to amaze me. Its about time we had some new evolutionary pressure working on the human species. Unfornuately its the mentally
challenged who breed like rabbits - the rest of us know when to stop, and know how to stop.
I must say, if I wanted to mess up a public building I wouldn't bother with explosives or the ACB - just a big bottle of LPG (safety valve superglued shut), a few sacks of
charcoal ...
nbk2000 May 8th, 2003, 01:33 AM

That 'tard sounds like a candidate for a Darwin Award. ;) :D
static_firefly May 8th, 2003, 02:20 AM

I heard somew here that the ACB was made innaccurate in an effort to be able to sell it legaly. I dont think theres any law against fake bomb recipies.
Aaron-V2.0 May 8th, 2003, 02:59 AM

This (http://www .kirotv.com/news/2177316/detail.html) is another reason not to make a truthful, easy to read compilation of explosive synths. Although this kid seems to have
been reading up on his this, and yet he w as stupid enough to sell TATP to others as "bombs" and have a pound :eek: in his apartment!
nbk2000 May 8th, 2003, 04:06 AM

It's almost as easy to make as piss, but it's a bitch to store and handle safely in LARGE amounts (kilos, anyone? :eek: ) without a SNAFU causing a major FUBAR'ing of your
limbs and organs. :D
I don't think it'd be too terribly difficult to make a single page, cartoon-format, instructional sheet on how to make an APAN "bomb" using things found in the grocery store.
Instant cold packs, nail polish remover, peroxide, pool acid, and something to light it off w ith. Simple.
Distibute it as a PDF document, w ith fields that can be filled in by the person who'll be printing it out, so they can fill the source list with stores and prices local to their immediate
area. Preferably within walking distance of the kids who'd be finding these flyers. >)
Print out a single page on the computer, and take it to Kinko's to print out a hundred copies for $3. Tack to telephone poles, bus stops, hangouts, and anyw here else that 13-18
year old boys accumulate. Wearing gloves the whole time, of course. ;)
Then proceed to w atch the news for the next month as a rash of mailboxes, trashcans, and idiots who can't follow simple instructions, proceed to get splattered about the
countryside. :D
Naturally, the politicans will be screaming about how the heinous perpetrators of this "wicked" crime will have to be brought to justice...but for what? You simply provided
written instructions, w ith no mention of use or "targets" to be blow n up.
The person reading it had to go out, buy the materials, make the stuff, and then use it for illegal purposes...all of this by their ow n free will. So the blame is on the idiot, w ho
blew himself up, not the person who provided easy/safe directions on how to do so, though the pols would still try using this as an excuse to ban something or other.
In my ideal fantasy w orld, it'd even stop people bitching about how dangerous guns are, when John Q. Angry can just as easily use high explosives as a pistol.
Actually, explosives are MUCH easier to make and use than a pistol, or any other firearm. Scalable to destroy anything from a lock to the entire building, directable, single or
multiple persons, and much more versatile thanks to electronic timers/controls. $500 worth of chemicals would let you destroy a whole building worth of people in an instant. Try
doing that with a $500 rifle. :p
darkdontay May 8th, 2003, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by Aaron-V2.0
This (http://www .kirotv.com/news/2177316/detail.html) is another reason not to make a truthful, easy to read compilation of explosive synths. Although this kid seems to have
been reading up on his this, and yet he w as stupid enough to sell TATP to others as "bombs" and have a pound :eek: in his apartment!
HAHAHAHA
I clicked on the link before I saw who posted it and the first thing I thought of was YOU.. I was Oh crap Aaron got busted.. hehehe
Did you know the kid?
jfk May 8th, 2003, 05:15 AM

the pigs cant get enough fun confisctating everyones weed and alcohol so they gotta do this:"
Crews were planning to move the substance to another location and set it off.
WogBoy May 8th, 2003, 07:54 AM

thanks for the feedback, sorry i w asnt really aware of these rules, i'll keep them in mind in the future, perhaps you should post these under the little rules section at the bottom
of the page
and yes, i heard the rumour about the CIA just today as a matter of fact
cheers guys

Oh dear, a fellow man from the Rose of the Shires too :rolleyes:
The report says that he didn't intend to take his life. So what did he intend? To clear his sinuses?! If the fuse accidentally lit, why keep it in your mouth.
Thr guy was obviously as nutty as a fruitcake...

Well it s nice to see that news report w as fair and accurate, hah! It was rather misleading, or it would be if I didnt know better. First off I would not consider AP as a high-yield explosive.
That implies it is some new military super weapon capable of achieving 12,000 m/s or some such. As far as explosive velocity goes AP is on the low end of the spectrum. High yield
indeed. Second, what kind of building exactly can 1 lb level anyway? I am sure it would do a number on the room, and most of a house, but completely level a house? They implied
much more by saying building instead of house. A building to me means big 20 family complex, school, government office, etc . Third, a bomb making operation? When I read that I
envisioned this guy with a warehouse cranking out hundreds of pounds of explosives, not some pimply faced teenager making a few grams here and there in his bedroom. I would
hardly consider that an operation. It was not even like he was churning out a pound at a time and selling it, he w as pawning off firecracker sized amounts. Fourth, I take issue with the
characteriz ation of AP as highly volatile in the context as it was written. It is volatile for a solid, but not volatile for gasoline, the natural assumption the lay audience w ill com e to. Fifth,
associating AP as taking great s kill to m ake along with him having 25 advanced chemistry books is pure propaganda to discourage the kewl kiddies. That makes it sound like this kid
was some kind of self taught PhD wannabe developing rare military weapons in his room. Thats more chemistry books than I have, that many makes me tired jus t thinking about them.
One thing for sure though, he is screw ed. Lets see, possession of controlled explosive substance (AP is new to the list), manufacture of controlled explosive substance, illegal sale of
explosive substance, possession of bomb making materials, illegal storage of controlled substance without license or approved magazine, illegal transport of controlled explosive
substance without permit, illegal storage of explosive substance in non-approved residential zone, illegal storage of explosive substance within 1000 feet of residential area, illegal
storage of explosive substance within 500 feet of public road, and of course possession of bomb making literature. With the Patriot Act we get intent to commit terroristic act,
commission of terroristic act, possession of terrorist tools, sale of terrorist devices, and possession of terrorist training manuals. Gee, 50 years ago and this would be entrepreneurial
home experimenter dis tributes nois e makers to awed onlookers .
Aaron-V2.0 May 9th, 2003, 02:00 AM

I know you kid Dark, and no I didnt know the little twit. Also here's another story from King 5 News website. http://www .king5.com/localnews/stories/
NW_050203WABexplosives.17987fcf.html
Ed Troyer of the Pierce County sheriff's department said the explosive is a version of triacetone triperoxide, or TATP, a highly volatile explosive. It is commonly used in Mideast
suicide bombings, he said.
What version might that be? The dimeric form? :rolleyes:
Deputies arrested a 16-year-old boy who allegedly came up w ith his own recipe for the explosive, the stations reported.
Odd, I'd expect the police to use the "Internet boogieman" on it, it's rare that they say someone had a brain in figuring it out. Though most likely the kid did find the synth on a
website somew here.
His father admits he didn't know w hat his son was making in his bedroom.
"He's a genius. I think he was just trying to see if he could make it," said Leotis Gibson.
Said the father as he sold off all his son's books, glassware and other "Naughty Chemistry" things.
simply RED May 14th, 2003, 08:38 AM

WogBoy, you wrote a nonsense, SIMPLE frustration almost never induces homicidal thoughts.
The frustration leads to depression, depression after a great period may lead to neurosis: psychastenic, reactive, hypochondric, hysteric(depending on one's nervous system
type).....
Which leads mainly to suicide.... (13 y. old girls swallowing pesticides or neuroleptics).
The person must be aggresive himself to do acts of violence!, usually such individuals do "their best" in a "blackout" condition. These conditions can be only provoked by
frustration.
In them the big frustration comes almost always after the act of mischief.
In a recent case an agressive individual killed a young man he didn't know at all, the reason was the agressive psychic of the subject, he w as provoked by his girlfriend, w ho
argued with him.
After some months in prison the killer said " I have no face , only asshole".
-----------------------------------------
Agression does not control my mind
it controls my dreams....
-----------------------------------------
Kid Orgo June 18th, 2003, 07:10 PM

"
-----------------------------------------
Agression does not control my mind
it controls my dreams....
-----------------------------------------"
If those are dreams in the usual forum context, you still have a problem.
Ropik May 7th, 2004, 06:50 PM

NBK, you remind me one of the most kewlish people I know(knew, actually). This smartie just filled the CO2 cartridge with AP, epoxy it well, and thought: "Hell, I forgot to drill
a fuse hole... Nothing happened, I will drill it now..."
*BLAM*
You know the rest.
P.S.: I know that this K3|/\/L crushed the AP with mortar and pestle before putting it into the cob... Well, fortune goes only once for one person...

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Cl2 gas.
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bubbling_beaker May 9th, 2003, 06:13 AM

hi all,
i know somthing like this has been mentioned before..or atleast i think it has in this forum
but i need a good way to make Cl2 gas to make some chlorate because electrosis isnt my
kinda thing.. i have lots of HCl and around 500g of calcium hypochlorite the 60% stuff
and i have a couple of kg's of NaOH and KNO3 i dont need to make lots and i dont mind if
there is some methods which are resource consuming id just love to have chlorate can
some one please help me .
zeocrash May 9th, 2003, 01:46 PM

have you tried bombarding unstable nuclei with neutrons
Rhadon May 9th, 2003, 02:07 PM

Zeocrash, I'm not sure if that way is appropriate for him. He had to shake a satured table salt solution vigorously for about an hour in order to get it unstable. But if he really
wants the chlorine, I guess he can do it. The addition of human hair can be used to speed up the process a bit. Any ideas on how to get the neutrons?
Mr Cool May 9th, 2003, 04:28 PM

I don't think I've seen that method before, I'll have to check my books to see if I can find a detailed description. It sounds interesting.
Rhadon, neutrons can be bought at chemists and supermarkets as "Super-Strength Decongestant" (the non-drowsy kind). A box of 16 pills will cost about 0.50, and the pills
are roughly 50% pure neutrons. Extraction can be difficult though, they add a load of gakk (mainly protons) to the pills to deliberately make it harder to get the good stuff
out.[/silliness]
_beaker, five minutes of experimenting with those chemicals that you have listed will show you a way to make chlorine...

Mr Cool: Okay, that sounds reasonable. I think I'll try it when I have the time to do so.
nbk2000 May 10th, 2003, 02:45 AM

Fellas, please, let's go easy on the poor guy, huh? ;)
Just mix the HCl with the hypochlorite, and you'll have plenty of chlorine, maybe more than you can handle. :p
Rhadon May 10th, 2003, 05:06 AM

Sorry, I had to do it :D
bubbling_beaker May 10th, 2003, 07:40 AM

lol :o .. thankyou; Rhadon, Zeocrash, Mr cool :(
:rolleyes:

"Fellas, please, let's go easy on the poor guy, huh?" ~ NBK
Haha, I've saved a copy of that quote onto my HDD, I fear that it will never be said again! :D
megalomania May 10th, 2003, 10:20 AM

I think there might be a security breach of nbk's account!
My favorite method of Cl generation is Sani-FLush and bleach; sodium bisulfate and calcium hypochlorite are the active ingredients.
nbk2000 May 10th, 2003, 03:46 PM

Believe me, if it had been any other section, I would have ripped out his spine and used it as a toothpick. :D
But, this is the appropriate place to ask newbie questions, right? So, I answered it. :) I can be merciful when the planets are aligned, can't I? :p
BTW, the name "Water Cooler" brings to mind a bunch of officer workers hanging around talking sheeple talk. :mad:
I think "The Blasting Pit" would be more appropriate, given our hobby. ;) Or may "The Fireworks Stand". :D
I find the pool acid and shock reaction to be much more controllable than the PMJB method of sani-flush and bleach. Plus, it's cheaper, sani-flush being rather overpriced
considering what it is.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > H2O2 route?
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imported_reodor_felgen May 13th, 2003, 12:10 PM

I found this in an old Norwegian encyclopedia (sp?), what do you think?
( C H 3 ) 2 C H O H + O 2 - > ( C H 3 ) 2 C O + H2O 2
Isopopanol + oksygen -> Aceton + Hydrogen p eroxide
Sounds awfully nice (Horray!), too nice for me to be belived as a m atter of fact. There must be some kind of special contitions
to be fulfilled, or else I think people would use this process m ore often. My book says tha t it used to be a com mon industrial
process. Anyone know anythin g m ore about this?

T h e r e m o s t l i k e l y a r e s o m e s p e c i a l r e q u i r e m e n ts. W hen you first see the reaction HNO 3 + m ethanol--> nitromethan it looks
great, however the reaction must be carried out at high pressure and tem parature and the reactents m ust be at the
temparature and pressure for only 1/10 of a second.. Not the most simple procedure.
imported_reodor_felgen May 14th, 2003, 10:59 AM

Found this at http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~che250/group_project/ph a s e _ 2 . h t m
"Hydrogen peroxide production: air is bubbled through a mixture of isopropanol and hydrogen peroxide at 5 atm and 120C .
The reaction mixture is diluted with water and fractionated to yield hydrogen peroxide solution, acetone, an d unreacted
isopropanol for recycle."
5 atm should't be too hard, sholud it?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Lockdown! Article
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nbk2000 May 14th, 2003, 02:18 AM

Since Stoic brought up the subject of Lockdown!, I thought I'd bring up this idea I've been having for a while, and get your
feedback.
See, there's a lot of timely inform ation of interest to the crim i n a l e l e m e n t, but it's scattered throughout all the vario us cop-
oriented publications. I thought it'd be nice to gather this stuff u p every m onth, a nd m ake it available to Lockdown! m e m b e r s ,
a s a collectio n of the various articles com piled together into one PDF for that m onth, along with additional comm entary by m e
regarding specific points in the article.
So, I thought I'd test out the idea using one of m y u s u a l r e a d s " G u n s a n d W eapons for Law Enforcement", and rip one of their
articles and convert using ABBYY fine-reader for O CR, prior to conversion to PDF.
W hen I did it as strictly image captures of the page, even with PS alteration to reduce, it still came out to almost 1.3MB. But,
u s i n g t h e A B B Y Y O C R , it's only 218Kb. :)
I didn't lock it since I'd like someone to take a swipe at the file with that PDF com pression program (which I haven't gotten
yet), and let me know if it works and, if so, if it m ade any sizeable difference in file size.
I think it'd be sweet if every m onth the pig-catering publications were getting ripped to PDF, passed around the crim inal
c o m m unity (for free), to be used against them.
They don't get a dim e, and it's all going to be turned against them , so what could be sweeter? :D
T h i s w o u l d a l s o b e g o o d f o r n o n - U S m e m bers, since they'd get a leg up on the cop technology that usually starts in the US,
before being exported to the euro cops.
I ' d a l s o d o m agazine and newspaper articles if, in m y opinion, they'd be of intere st to the Lockdown! mem bership. ;)
Anyhows, here's the article UR L, download and tell m e what you think of the idea.
http://nbk20 00.freeyellow.com /LaserArticle.bin
Right click, choose "save target as...", renam e the .BIN extension to .PDF, download, and read.

I like this idea. Regarding the creation of the P DF file, I'd sugge st the following for best results:
Scan the pages at 600 DPI in grayscale, convert them to b&w images in photosho p using a noise filter such as Floyd-Steinberg.
C l i p a l l i m a g e s t o e q u a l s i z e , r e - i m port them into FineR eader having the adjust im age orientation option switched o ff. Apply an
O C R and export the batch as a PDF file com p o s e d o f i m ages with the OC R e d t e x t b e n e a t h t h e i m a g e s .
If you don't want to h ave a bitmap PDF, you'd get bette r results if you export the recognized text into StarWriter (or MS W ord if
you prefer th at ;)) an d positio n the images "by hand". Although this will increase the filesize, I'd use a higher image resultion
as in your first article.
As far as I know, a compression can only be applied to a PDF file if it has been created with the first m e t h o d I m e n t i o n e d . I n
any case, keep on with the go od work :).
PS: The PDF com pression utility is on the FTP. It's located in the recent folder, its filenam e b e i n g s i l x p d f c o m pressor (cracked)
- by rhadon.zip.
Stoic May 14th, 2003, 06:46 AM

NBK have you received an email I tried to pass on to yo u via Anthony?
nbk2000 May 14th, 2003, 02:06 PM

D a m n, dude, at least give him a day to get it to me, OK? ;)
I know where to get the silx file, I just can't connect to the FTP, using m y ISP. :(
I t h i n k 6 0 0 D P I i s b e y o n d m y scanners capabilities. It's from '98, m i n d y o u , a n d a t 1 5 0 D P I t a k e s a nit of tim e. I'm trying to get
these scans out the same month I get them in. ;)
Is the Flyod-Steinberg filter OEM with PS7? Or is it a plug-in?

Okay, if you want the compressor, send m e an email, I will then send it to you (filesize is 1 MB or less).
My scanner is old either, but not as old as yours. O ne full page at 600 DPI in grayscale takes a bit m ore than a minute, but
that's fine if you do som ething else while scanning.
I'm not sure whether Floyd-Steinberg is availab le in PS at all, I prefer Corel Photopaint and just assum e d t h a t P S d o e s a l s o
include this filter or a sim ilar one. But there m u s t b e s o m e sort of noise filter for convertin g grayscale or colored im a g e s t o
b&w. Any PS freaks out there :)?
EDIT: Perhaps you ca n use www2ftp (http://www.web2ftp .com) to connect to the Forum FTP.
nbk2000 May 15th, 2003, 02:13 AM

I can't log-in using a proxy, since that'd expose admin privlege access to the FTP to outsiders, so the proxy does m e n o g o o d
either. Thanks anyways.
I'll e-m ail you with my addy.
PS does have a decolorizing filter, which turns color into monochrome, if that's what you m e a n t .

PS does have a decolorizing filter, which turns color into monochrome, if that's what you m eant. Ye s, that's what I m e a n . B u t
there are different kinds of conversion filters, a n d s o m e will yield better results th a n o t h e r s . I n t h e P D F f i l e , t h o s e i m a g e s
created with a noise filter will look best - but only at high resolutions (600 DPI). At lower resolutions (300 DPI; don't know
about lower resolutions), you'll get best results when using different filters for different parts of the page: The noise filter for
im ages, and another filter for the text (I don't rem e m b e r i t s n a m e right now and can't loo k it up due to com puter problem s).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Dinitramides...?
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darule May 14th, 2003, 06:48 AM

Dear all, I am looking for MSDS inform ation (physical, chem ical propertie s, analysis data) of dinitram i d e s ( e . g . a m m o n i u m m
dinitram ide (ADN), potassium dinitramide (KDN) but also less com o n o n e s . C a n a nybody help we with this, because I can't find
any MSDS of these substances on the net. Also suppliers, prices or references to them are welcom e . T h a n k s i n a d v a n c e .
simply RED May 14th, 2003, 06:54 AM

You don't deserve a reply!, but anyway, ADN is not toxic.
darule May 14th, 2003, 07:58 AM

W hy don't I deserve a reply? I am a student chemical e ngineering from the Netherlands, who asks a polite question on this
forum : I can't find MSDS/phys/chem . info on dinitram i d e s .
Is it posted on the wrong thread/location?
ADN not toxic..? I didn't say it was, I just want information on it. Try eating som e ADN, and then rem ber the law that says "all
chemicals are toxic....it just depends o n how much you eat!
Still hoping for an answer....

I t h i n k t h e r e a s o n y o u d o n t d e s e r v e a r e s p o n s e h a s s o m ething to do with NO NEW TOPICS ON FIRST POST! or something like
that.
nbk2000 May 14th, 2003, 02:01 PM

Newbie questions belong in the water cooler, hence the m ove.
darule May 14th, 2003, 02:10 PM

Ok, fair enough. I didn't know this (I did check the rules of the forum , but obviou sly not that thouroughly). I apologise for
that.

IIR C m ost nitramines are m e t a b o l i z e d to nitrosamines, which are quite carcinogenic.
Darule, you m ight want to visit our dutch chem istry forum : www.chem ixtry.tk

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Preparation of Am m onium
nitrate
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Desmikes May 14th, 2003, 03:22 PM

Do you have to purify am monium nitrate from 34-0-0 fertilizer in order to use it for ANFO ? If so ho w long do you have to
b a k e i t a f t e r m o s t o f t h e w a t e r t h a t w a s u s e d f o r d i s s olving NH4NO3 was boiled off ? I h a d i t i n t h e o v e n f o r a b o u t 4 h r s
( 2 2 0 * F / 1 1 5 * C) and it still see med damp. Is it possible to just let diesel + AN (in pellet or powder form ) m ixture sit for couple
of days inste ad?
kingspaz May 16th, 2003, 06:56 PM

34-0-0 is greater than 90% am monium nitrate which m e a n s y o u don't have to pu rify it. its the NPK system standing for
nitrogen, phosphouro u s a n d p o t a s s i u m . the nu mbering shows it has no K or P in it only N which m eans it m u s t b e a m m onium
nitrate.

Just heat it until its dry. The p owder will often form a we ak, crum bly cake. If you can brak up a piece and rub/crush it into
powder with your fingers, it's plenty good to go.
jfk June 5th, 2003, 11:25 PM

ok, sorry to bring this thread back again, but i was just doing a search for one of your replies Anthony about AN Prills. i got
m ine from a hydroponics store - how should i g o a o b u t p r e p a r i n g t h e m ?
im o n l y m a k i n a s m a l l a m m ount of MEKP-AN would just grindin them up be suitable or would i have to wash them and oven dry
them? (if so how shoudl i go about it>?)
GibboNet June 6th, 2003, 09:24 AM

I know you a sked for anthony's help with this, but I'll give it a go, m ostly because I want it to be confirmed for my own
knowledge.
Firstly, it probably wouldn't m atter which way you went about it, as long as your AN ended up dry. crushing it 'as is' m e a n s l e s s
fuss and bother with drying, which can be very tim e consuming. Dissolving and recrystalising it can be a pain in the m e s s i n e s ,
depending on how careful you are, but it can be a lot easier on the arms if you are thinking of han d crushing it, as the prills will
reform as crystals after driving the water off them.
You don't need to go either way - whatever is e asiest fo r you, because the result is the sam e both ways, assuming you do it
correctly.
I used some AN from cold packs not that long ago, but in transporting th e m h o m e i n m y backpack, the water packs in one
(got two brands to see how much in each) had burst . At the time, (living with parents etc.) I had n o way of oven drying it, so I
sim ply put it in a wide glass jar, placed flyscreen over the top an d left it in hot sun, taking it in and re-sealing it at night. after
a couple of days I was left with the finest needle crystals on top of a cake of dried AN, which was crum bly to the touch, and
powdered easily.
I have never got pure AN as p rills, but if they are anything like other fertiliser prills, then they are very hard, coated, and would
be very difficult to cru sh.
h o p e t h a t h e lps.
EDIT: Desm ikes says it can be placed in the oven for 4 hours at 115 deg rees celcius, so I would re ckon you could leave it in
long er if need be. just check it regularly and move it around a bit to m ake sure it's getting dried evenly.
Anthony June 6th, 2003, 01:41 PM

Unless you're using the AN for a sensitive m ix such as ANNM, where abso lute dryness isn't critical, the AN will need to be dried
after crushing.
Even being careful an d crushing a little at a tim e, and placing the powder into a a sealed container the AN abosrbs moisture,
leaving the finished powder dam p to the touch. An hour in the oven at 100-120*C after powdering gives a nice bone dry
product.
Crushing AN prills is a bitch, they're pretty hard and often fly out of the m ortar. I usually watch TV whilst grinding. I can't do
m o r e t h a n 2 0 0 g m a day with m y little m ortar and pestle before m y h a n d s g e t s o r e .
W etting and drying the prills befor crushing should make them easier to grind, but it's an extra step in the process.
jfk June 6th, 2003, 11:38 PM

i reckon these prills i got are a bit dam p a t t h e m o m ent, they crush easy as.
i just finished my MEKP synth and got the AN ground it up shoved it in the oven @300 deg rees for like 15 m in.
all d ry and crumbly now. gonna m a k e s o m e MEKP/AN soon, in a few hours when my HTMD cap synth is done
Argy June 6th, 2003, 11:42 PM

Personally i didn't succeeded to detonate ANFO m ade with 34-0-0 fertilizer with 40-50gram s of AP... but i think it's clearly
possible with a good booster (PETN / R DX for exem ple)
xyz June 7th, 2003, 04:11 AM
You need several hundred grams of APAN to detonate ANFO, 50g of AP won't work
Arthis June 7th, 2003, 05:06 AM

Plea se not again on detonating ANFO here. There are endless threads about that.
M a y b e a m icrowave would be enough to dry AN... in case you need some very fast.
jfk, your AN pills are easy to crush once dry ? Because when not dry it's pretty hard (you need a m ixer, and I fucked m y coffee
crusher due to the AN hum idity :( )
Arthis June 7th, 2003, 12:27 PM

Hey, you know the joke of the guy who wants to dry AN and put it in the oven at 220-230C ?
I rem e m b e r h a v i n g r e a d s o m ewhere to let it at 300C
I know this is stupid, but what can I do about it ? Think I'm gonna give HED m yself... ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > U K Asylum p r o b l e m ( s i m p l i f i e d )
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zaibatsu May 15th, 2003, 03:37 PM

http://www.detpax.fsnet.co.uk/asylum .swf
:D
arm May 15th, 2003, 04:11 PM

Fucking hilarious......and so god damn true.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > W orking with low BP chems
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Just wondering about a test I need to do at work next week...
The test establishes the break-through time of protective gloves to various acids/bases/solvents. The sample is held in a PTFE
cell, form ing a seal between the two halves of the cell. One half of the cell is filled with the challenge chem ical and the other
side with distilled water. The conductivity of the distilled water is m e a s u r e d over tim e to determine the rate at which the
c h a l l e n g e c h e m perm e a t e s t h e s a m p l e .
T h e h a l v e s o f the cell are unsealed to the atm osphere and the test must run for up to 8hrs. The lab is m a i n t a i n e d a t a
constant 22* C a n d 5 0 % R H .
A glove manufacturer has requested testing with some challenge chem s t h a t h a v e n ' t b e e n u s e d b e f o r e b y a n y o n e w o r k i n g i n
the departm e n t . O n e o f t h e s e is Ethylamine, which has a boiling point of only 16.6*C .
I presume that the le vel of challenge chemical in the ce ll shouldn't fluctuate, as it could skew the results.
I'm wonderin g if the low BP of this chem is going to present a problem. Each cell contains ~50ml of chem a n d e x p o s u r e t o t h e
atmosphere is a ~3/4" dia hole.
W o u l d a s i m p l e p i e c e of tape over, or a bung in this hole elim inate the problem? Or would this pre ssurise the cell, thus
skewing the results by forcing the chem through the test sam ple ?
Storing the e thylam in e should n't be a problem as it can go in the Foul Sm elling Fridge of Doom . It's opene d very rarely and
a n y o n e d o i n g s o b e c o m es very unpopular. Having to hunt aroun d in there for a chem is an eye-wa tering and rather unpleasant
experience.
Not sure what actually is responsible for the awful smell, since I don't care to take the tim e o t e x a m ine its contents. There's
definitely som e 100% NaO Cl in there, which I think is part of the cocktail. Does every lab have such a fridge or is the one I
work in just grotty? ;)
Mind you, it's not all grotty, th e floor was exceedingly clean after I accide ntally flo oded it on friday morning. I thought the piss
t a k i n g w a s b a d e n o u g h u n t i l I r e f u s e d t o l e a r n f r o m m y m istake s and did exactly the sam e thing again in the afternoon!
:rolleyes:
At least the m anagement were away at a conference, I'm sure they would have wanted to know why they were splashing around
in a good half inch of water... :D

Heh, there is a Fridge of Doom in just about every lab :) You know your supposed to im m e r s e e t h y l a m ine, or any low BP
solvent, in an ice bath before opening it right?
I say stick a stopper in the ho le of the test apparatus. Pressure will affect breakthrough tim es, but so will not having any
m aterial to b reakthrough. The closest result you would likely get is by refrigerating the test cell to keep the ethylam ine below
the BP.
Your going to have to sacrifice som ething unless you wish to attach a reflux condenser to the test setup. You would need a
refrigerated recirculation bath connected to the condenser to keep it cold enough, but not so cold you affect your results. A
c o n d e n s e r m ay at least delay the evaporation of the solvent. O therwise you m ay have to continually add m ore from tim e to
tim e.

Thanks for the info Mega. I think the solution will be either a bung or m aintaining a surplus level of chem. Unfortun ately that's
goin g to m ean yours truly keeping a near constant eye on it. I hope the gloves fail after 5mins and don't go the full 8hrs :(
There is a large chest freezer that goes down to -50*C (I was freezing pens in it on friday) that the test could be run in, but
I'm pretty su re the standard calls for controlled temp/hum idity. Also the lack of fume extraction might both e r s o m e o n e .
I wasn't aware of the practice of ice bathing low BP solvents, but then I've had no form al general chem handling/lab pratice
training. Except a 30 m in presentation from an industrial chem spill handler at the Fisher Science Expo, who explained the
falla cy of storing benzene in a whiskey bottle and how you should phone the fire departm ent if a fork lift truck crashes into a
pallet of H2SO4 drum s...
I have supervision though (on the occasions that she's there) from the chem ical engineer from the Motherland itself :) Not that
I should divulge that it took her 20 m inutes, an A4 sheet of scribbles and some furious calculator bashing to produce a 5% HCl
solution from the 37% stock!
Producing a 25% NaO Cl solution required a phone call to Aldrich... "I'm p retty sure the sto ck is ~100%" said I. "But it says 1 0-
13% Cl content on the label, we can work out its concentration from that. W hat's the m o l a r m a s s o f NaOCl?"
Buggered if I knew, so I picke d a g e n e r a l c h e m tom e form the shelf and read her the defintion of a m o l e : " T h e a m o u n t o f a
substance that contains as m a n y a t o m s, molecules, ion s, or other elem entary units as the number of atom s in 0.012 kilogram
of carbon 12"
At which poin t she went for the phone...
Of course, Aldrich said the obvious - m ix it 25:75 with water for a 25% solution...
O h d e a r , I s e e m to have gone off on a rant :D
Not as bad as the director who covers out departm ent. They're expanding the site with two new buildings, one being built now
a n d t h e o t h e r built after the com pletion of the first. The first new building is going to be kitted out with big new lab which will
include a 6 figure balance so that some poor sod can have fun weighing dust on filters...
Both new buildings require pile driving for the foundations, and you *kno w* when they're doing it because the whole bloody
building shakes. The director wanted to know if these "vibrations" m ight upset his shiney new balance...
Lets see... Balance needs protecting from norm ally unoticable air conditioning currents, pile driving s o m e t i m e s m a k e s
e m p l o y e e s n early fall over. Hm m m m m m !
O n e o f t h e o t h e r c h a l l e n g e c h e m s for this particular test seem e d f a m iliar - Aniline, which seemed familiar for a reason I can't
recall. I've ju st looked up an MSDS for it and I think it's one of those chems where you ne ed to wear gloves all the tim e,
instead of most of the time :)
I'm sure this rant has given faith to everyone concerning UK and EU standard testing for p rotective lab wear ;)
BTW , a n y o n e k n o w h o w b e n z e n e c o m pares to toluene for cleaning off sticky tape residue? W e're o u t o f T o l u e n e , b u t h a v e
plen ty of benzene...
EDIT: typo
vulture May 19th, 2003, 11:11 AM

O d d , I t h o u g ht 100% NaOCl was unsta b l e a n d d e c o m posed upon concentration?
Anyway, if yo u have the possibility conduct the experim ent in a sealed box and saturate the air with ethylam ine before you
start the exp eriment. That way there will be no vaporiza tion of ethylam ine out of the solution :)
Ofcourse you m ust m ake sure that the ethylam ine vapours can NO T reach the other cell half.

Oh, no, pile driving won't affect a balance. You don't really need a two ton block of m arble to isolate it from s o m eone walkin g
down the hall next to it or a radioactive ionizer to cancel static attraction... I jest of course.
B e n z e n e i s a better solvent (slightly) than toluene accross the board. Due to its toxicity nobody uses it anym ore.

I know this is waaaay off topic, but you did ask about stickytape residue. Best thing I've found for that job is a prod uct called
Desolv-it. It contains citrus oil so it smells rather nice, it also works wonders for getting all kinds of shit off things e.g. Blutack,
m asking tape, tar, plasticene, sticky labels ...
nbk2000 May 20th, 2003, 01:22 AM

W hat about running a refrigeration coil through the cell holding the Et am ine? Keep it liquid at just below its boiling point.
No sense in testing for liquid penetration at a tem p/pressure above that which it could actually exist while h u m a n h a n d s a r e i n
the glove being tested, now is there?
Anthony May 22nd, 2003, 02:49 PM

S o m ething you soon realise is that a lot of PPE standards don't m a k e s e n s e . . .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > U rban Exploration
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mrloud May 22nd, 2003, 11:17 AM

Since most p eople here are subtly (or not so subtly) different from "norm a l " i t ' s a g o o d b e t t h a t s o m e o f y o u h a v e b e e n
involved in som e sort of exploration.
I realise m o s t p e o p l e explored the local storm water drain as a kid, but what about taking it a step beyond that. In particula r,
to the extent of joining up with the people from www.infiltration.org or www.caveclan.org (in O z).
I try to get out and explore something once or twice a week.
H e r e a r e s o m e pics SW IM took the other day.

http://203.2.75.213/filetransfer2/page_01.htm
Crow May 22nd, 2003, 03:03 PM

T h o s e l i n k s h a v e b e e n p o s t e d h e r e b e fore. I Do like to explore, but there is not m uch around here. There is a storm drain and
a n a b a n d o n e d s t e a l m ill, but thats it. I have th oroughly explored all that they contain, and the surroundings. I did find a brand
new bike down there, that was good. :)
nbk2000 May 22nd, 2003, 05:32 PM

Looks like a level out of Q uakeII. :D
PAINTBALL!
Sparky May 22nd, 2003, 11:52 PM

You bet right, I belon g t o a n u r b a n e x p l o r a t i o n g r o u p . W e e v e n h a v e a n a m e - " W est Village" I sa id it sounds like a daycare
center but nobody listened to me ;) . W e have a website too at http://pyropage.cyberarmy.ca/W estVillage/FirstMission.html
but the pictures aren't nearly as cool as the ones SWIM (Someone who isn't m rloud) took. So far I've only gone with them to
a n a b a n d o n e d r e s t a r a u n t a n d I ' m the only one with a digital camera hen ce the pictures are only from that trip. I really like
u r b a n e x p l o r i n g a n d i n m y city there is lots of places to explore, so I plan to do more.
Haggis May 23rd, 2003, 01:35 AM

Here is a short fiction story I would like to share with you:
I also enjoy the 'draining'. In fact, m y worst police expe rience came due to one of my excursions. I went into a tunnel which
goes in the ground 3 foot wide, then turns into a 5 foot tall, 6 fo ot wide 3/4 m ile m a r a t h o n a n d e m pties ou t in the airport...on
the other side of the razor wire. W e l l , I p a r k e d t h e c a r a n d c h e c k e d a r o u n d , n o h e a d l i g h t s o r p e o p l e c o m i n g , s o I d u c k e d
inside. I was in there a while and decided to lift a thin m anhole to see out...all I saw were flashing lights all around. I didn't
know what to think other than, "I can't run, they're around m y car." So I shimm y down this pipe that goes into the main line
and I see two flashlig hts com ing down the pipe while the cops scream at me, their cries incoherant due to echoing. I walked
down the tun nel towards them ( a b o u t h a l f m i l e ) a n d m et up with two Glock's. I was drug from the sewer and when I surfaced
There was the sherrif, an SUV piggie and 4 cruisers. The reason for this response was that the guy that saw m e thro ugh his
wind ow got his place robbed. The robbers ran d own tunnel and e scaped. W hen he saw me..."The sewer felons are back" I was
searched througholy and it's a good th ing I had nothing incrim in ating on me at the tim e. I tell you , they were some stupid
d a m n cops to com e into the d a r k n e s s a f t e r m e . It would have been so easy for m e t o h a v e p o p p e d t h e m a n d e s c a p e d i n t o
m ore tunnels to freedom. All I got was a verbal warning for trespassing.
A-BOMB May 23rd, 2003, 09:24 AM

I too like to "explore" areas b ut I'll take anything useful thats not bolted down, well even then somethings. I found this old
tunnel/mine(well m a y b e ) o n e t i m e in the side o f a hill. It had a brick entrance and was brick as fars as I went in but I didn't
see any light at the e nd, so I was every puzzled I've ne ver seen a mine with brick in it but never a tunnel that I cou ldn't see
light at the e n d . T h e o n e t i m e while I was in se wicley going to a old freinds house we foun d they HU GE under ground brick
citrens they were fuck ing HUGE the hole area on the gro u n d w h a t c o v e r e d i n o l d p i p e s a n d t a n k s o n e o f m y f r e i n d s a l m o s t f e l l
into one while we whe re walking, we ke pt on walking and we found about a dozen more with huge pieces of flag stone over the
tops as lids the place was weird, we could not figure out what the place was it was out in th e m iddle of nowh ere. Som e o f t h e
tanks were full of nasty lookin g water and som e sand others where em pty, but so me of th e ones that had water had a film of
oil o ntop. Sorry of m y rambelings, got a gould.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > NaNO 2 ?
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imported_reodor_felgen May 25th, 2003, 10:07 AM

Found this at rhodium s site:
2 CuOAc + NH4NO 3 + 2 AcO H 2 Cu(OAc)2 + NH4NO 2 + H2O
from :
( http://www.rhodium .ws/chem istry/mdp2pol.htm l )
S e e m s like a great way to obtain NaNO 2 :
NH4NO 2 + NaOH -> NaNO2 + NH4O H ( s o m e NH3 will dissappear in gas form )
Anyone forsee any troubles with this reaction? Anything would be welcom e !

Am monium nitrite isn 't stable.
But perhaps an alkali nitrate could be substituted for amm onium nitrate? I don't see why not.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Industrial use of KP
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arm May 25th, 2003, 04:49 PM

Just wondering..........What kind of pro c e s s e s i s P o t a s s i u m Perchlorate used for in industry?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Fourm Video
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So who here has been to www.grouchymedia.com ? who liked those videos? well for everyone who likes em how would you like
to see a video like that, except full of only videos and pictures that forum members have gotten from their own "dreams"? I
have compiled a great many videos and pictures from forum members iinto a video like that found at grouchymedia and am
waiting for Ctrl_C to email me back about an account so that I can upload it to the forum FTP. The video is a large 29.3 megs
which goes down to 22 megs when zipped making it a pain in the ass for people on dialup to download, but I think it would be
worth the time. I have appropriatly named the movie "Dreams" and The background music is Black All Over by the band
Lollipop Lust Kill. Some of the reasons I have picked this song are 1) in the chorus the words "black all over kinda reminded
me of smoke and dirt flying through the air 2) the words "life is nothing but a dream to me can be heard a few times 3)
Everybody Run! is heard 4) it's just a bad ass metal song which I thought would suit the video well. Remember that I have
only used things made by members here so don't think that I only used material by people that I like or anything. I dont play
favorites. I have even used the only pictures that I have ever seen posted by Mega, being those of phorone production. If
anyone has any comments please post... "is this a good idea? Is this a bad idea? Should I be shot for making this? Have I
been so out of it that I have failed to notice that there is already a forum video floating around?
frogfot May 26th, 2003, 05:49 AM

Nice idea. I've downloaded the music, sounds powerfull, just what explosions needs :cool: Will everybody have possibility to dl
it?
Will the known 50lb charge be as a final thing? :D
Axt May 26th, 2003, 06:56 AM

You could try splitting into 4 bits and uploading to here (6MB limit) -
http://www.itshappening.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=17
They are more then happy to host explosion movies, it seems.
(unless this is your attempt to get into the ftp ... heh heh..)
xyz May 26th, 2003, 08:39 AM

A song that would be good music for a sequel would be Fire by Rammstein. It has "bang bang" in the lyrics a large amount of
times.

Yea I would like it if everyone could download the movie. I'm thinking about cutting it into files and uploading like that but
would you guys be able to compile it back into one video? I guess I should have mentioned before, but for all who wanted to
know, it's an MPEG movie. And if you mean attempt to get into the ftp, I can kinda get into it but not really. I can view whats
in like spydamonkies' folder and whats in kingspas' and such but there's no way in hell I'm gonna upload the thing to anyone
elses folder even if it was possible. I don't like the idea of pissing forum members off, especially since I made this video FOR
them. I'll just wait for my own account or I'll findsomewhere else to upload. I dunno about you guys but I'd be kinda mad if
someone uploaded something that was theirs to my folder without askin ya know. (NO IM NOT ASKING)
Also, if people can link to more videos/ pictures that they have goten from their own experiments and "dreams" I'll think
about making another video with Rammstein in it since that would be a good song.
a_bab May 26th, 2003, 12:00 PM

You can split the movies with HJSplit (http://freebyte.swmirror.com/hjsplit.zip)
But I guess the forum will be up soon. You can upload without having an account.
THErAPIST May 26th, 2003, 01:42 PM

Actually im uploading it now to a free web hard drive, www.filesanywhere.com to be specific. They have a 50 meg limit and I
figured I'd try to cut down on the wait. I'm on a 56k so its slow, but its getting there. I'm uploading as one file instead of in
pieces. I'm now at 30% and I've been uploading for about an hour now so it should be up in a couple hours.

The video is now up. I request that someone with FTP access and with a cable connection go download the file first incase it
gets deleted that way you may upload it to the ftp for all the members with FTP access.
To get the file go to www.filesanywhere.com

The username is all capitols ( THERAPIST ) and the password is in all lowercase ( schoolsucks ).
It should pop up with a list of files on the left side of the page.
Click the first folder and then right click on "Dreams.mpg" then hit download.
I think I may be breaching the terms of agreement by placing the link and such on this forum but thats fine by me. The file
will only stay there for 30 days maximum. It's zipped and is 27 megs. I'm not sure but I think I saw somewhere that I am
only allowed to have 5 connections a day. Do remember that this is the first movie I've ever made and I did the best I could
with what I had. Hope you like it.
frogfot May 26th, 2003, 04:29 PM
I tryed to dl but it said: "selected file exceeds 2MB.. ...upgrade to PowerPlan.."
..don't have cable but it usually holds constant 65kbps, soz, i have no patience.. :rolleyes:
EDIT:
This was on mainpage:
"REMINDER: This is a 30-day free trial & downloads are limited to 2MB PER DAY"

AAAnd god hates me...
Spudkilla May 26th, 2003, 09:44 PM

Therapist, I sent you an e-mail with the "Send this user and e-mail" option in your profile. I do not know if it will get through
or not, so I it doesn't, drop me a line or PGP encrypt a message in this topic.

Sorry about not posting till now but my computer crashed when I tried to use HJ split, so I just stayed offline till now. I got
someone I know to upload the file to his webspace though and he has something like 6 gigs of bandwidth a week... or day...
Something like that. Anyway, here's the file.
video (http://www.orionwebdesigns.com/video/dreams.mpg)
Nihilist May 27th, 2003, 12:34 AM

OMG... that video is nothing short of FUCKING AWESOME! you timed all the explosions with the music really well. That's a
helluva video I recommend everyone download it.
Haggis May 27th, 2003, 12:38 AM

Oh my god, that is amazing. Thank you so much. That stuff really is 'porno for pyros'. It makes me quite proud to watch that.
Great work!

I was hoping you guys would like it :D
frogfot May 27th, 2003, 02:20 AM

Great work! inspiring actually :)
0EZ0 May 27th, 2003, 02:25 AM

Not half bad THErAPIST. Looks like you have put a lot of work into it. I'm sure everyone appreciates the gesture.
I do remember when there was a topic that had a link to those grouchy media videos. Got me thinking as well :D . At the time
it was well out of my reach to produce such footage into one downloadable movie. We must make something like this an
annual event. I'm sure we could dig up some more footage that we found just lying about from unknown contributors ;) .
Anyway thanks again, congrats on the good job.
Unknown May 27th, 2003, 02:42 AM

Great movie/music THErAPIST. Living in suburbia, I have to resort to "pyro media" to get my fix, and there isn't that much
around. Thanks to you I will sleep good tonight.

An annual event... I actually ind of like that idea 0EZ0 .. Yes I say that we should all attempt to find some "abandoned" work
here on the forum so that we can make an annual event of this. Hey I know all about the living in suburbia thing... but no one
complains around here. They always say that things need to louder/ bigger if it's near the fourth of July or new years :D
xyz May 27th, 2003, 07:15 AM

What do you all think about putting our forum videos for download on KaZaA or other file sharing programs. Putting the URL
for roguesci on the video may attract kewls though. I haven't downloaded it yet (got other downloads going) but I hope to
soon.
IPN May 27th, 2003, 10:58 AM

THErAPIST you did excellent work on that video, highly impressive!!
Sparky May 27th, 2003, 10:26 PM

That video is AWESOME! I liked it much better than the grouchy media ones even. Just some constructive suggestions: Some
parts of it get kind of slow, like watching the rocket fall out of the sky and when we are waiting for the dart to shoot through
the pop bottle. Some parts are pretty low resolution, it would be great to replace them with similar idea higher res videos. I
really liked the progressive ones like where you show the shaped AP charge, then the telephone book after, and zoom out.
Who made that zip gun, it looks impressive. The colored flame picture looks great too.
Why is there a Wiagra label on the fireball video? I'm pretty sure they are by Zero the Inestimable (aerosol cans ignited and
blown up by a cob).
Maybe you could tell us a little about the video, like where the video of the cannon that shot burning stuff (aluminum based
stars?) came from, and who made the zip gun? Naturally when I see cool stuff like that I want to know more about it :).
Bryan May 27th, 2003, 11:15 PM

That Video IS AWESOME!!!! Great work, Just before I read this file, I was looking through a Video of mine of a camping trip a
while back, 2 hours of VHS quality footage, I had 2.5kg of ANNM, 1kg of APAN, 3kg of Zn/S Flash, and peroxides coming out of
my ears. If I can figure out how I'll try and make it into one bi video like that. Great work THErAPIST.
Bryan

HEH HEH. Yea I know there were some slow spots, and I hate em more than you know. I didn't have anything to put in the
video to cut down on those slower parts. I used ALL the media I had from the forum to make that vid. I would have added a
couple more of my own pictures in there to cut down on those spots, but I didn't want it to look like I thought my stuff was the
best or something. There are a few pictures of a co2 grenade (the one with the nails. and the pic of the coffee can that had
been blown to shit, and there were a couple pictures of my pentagon firecrackers in there that I had to use just to take up
space and I really don't like the fact that I have my own stuff in there. I once had more pictures of things like members
blasting caps and such but they were on my other computer and they got deleted when my comp decided to kill itself one day.
Yes there were a couple vids with Wiagra at the bottom but that got put there by a program I have called Wiagra. I used it to
change the AVI files into MPEG files since Adobe Premiere hates the type of AVI that zeros movies were encoded in.. speaking
of zero. I hope I'm not too far out of line when I ask, What heppened to him?
The star mines and the big ass fireball (which was at 2:38) were done by EP IIRC.
There were various pictures in the video from people like DBSP, NBK, MEGA, and so many other people i cant even recall who
all did things... Ill have to compose a list of people who had their media used.
You do all remember that sad guy that noone liked...I think he was called Hypersonic gamer? The kid you all hated? He found
my AIM screen name and messaged me one day just to shoot the shit...That big ass fireball at the very of the movie... it was
made by him...
If you want a video made, or if you would like to have your stuff included in one of the forum videos, then see about
converting it to digital files and chop them up. Then link to them. I would be happy to start making another video if people
can start linking to new vids and pictures so that I can download them.
Will everyone who recognises something that is theirs please post and say what is yours in the vid? That would save me an
ungodly amount of time and then eveyone can see who to thank for the vid.
And on a side note, I'm sorry for the pixelation on some parts of the vid. If I knew how to fix it I definately would have.
Thanks for the constructive criticism. That's what makes things better, other peoples opinions.
EP May 28th, 2003, 12:19 AM

Very nice! :D Because you asked, the ones by SWIM were:
0:23 crackling star mine

0:44 5lbs AN/MEKP
0:54 red/green star mine
1:02 flash cob in a bucket of water
1:19 another star mine
1:32 another angle of the 5lbs AN/MEKP
2:05 blowing apart a tree root digging out a stump (not a very exciting video)
2:36 flash salute (another kind of boring one)
2:38 gas fireball that exploded instead of just lifting the gas
2:40 ~400mL MEKP under some wood
SWIM seem to take a lot of videos... :p I think all of these are also on SWIM's site as well.
SWIM should be getting 20lbs of AN soon, hopefully SWIM will have some more cool ones for the next forum video!

Yes, I got much of the media off of websites. I went and scraped up what i could find linked to on the forum and then i started
goint to members websites if i could find them. I hope that doesnt make anyone mad.... I probably should have asked for
permission but i thought I'd suprise everyone. Keep at it with the recorded "dreams" :D
nbk2000 May 28th, 2003, 12:55 AM

Nobody here makes videos. We just happen to find a lot of those left on various places on the 'net by that ever busy SWIM
fellow, that we've all come to greatly respect and admire. ;) :D
DBSP May 28th, 2003, 04:35 AM

00:28.095- 570g ANsapsoil My best pic ever I belive btw, thanks for bringing it along
00:28.596- 507g ANsapsoil, 0,5sec later
00:29.096- 570g ANsapsoil, ~10sec later
00:29.597- 1400g CaNrapsoil, ~10sec after det
00:35.402- 100g ANNM-EFP test
00:48.082- 500ml gasoline fireball
00:52.987- trinade
00:53.454- trinade, detonation test
00:53.921- trinade target
00:54.388- trinade bullet penetration of a branch
00:54.855- trinade bullet penetration in a tree
I really like this vid and I'de like to see more of them. I've got a bunch of videos I've made during the last half years or so
and LOTS of pics unfortunately the FTP my stuff it hosted on is down at the moment so they aren't availible right now unless I
find another place to put them.
I made another gasoline fireball the other day that was really nice which I have on video. Either next week or the week after
I'm getting a shipment of chems, including Ti powder which means I will be able to make som really nice fireballs with HE
soon. I will probably be doing some LSCs soon as well.
I've got a really crazy idea that I would like to try out. Only it will be onw hell of a thing to set off, expensive too. It's a 20l
empty chainsaw lubricant oil plastic container I would like to fill with gasoline and fire with a 100g ANNM/Ti charge. That would
be a badass fireball! I don't know where to detonate it + it would cost me over 18$ to do it, it would be fun though.
Due to a school project I'm going to have to buy a real videocamera;) + some editing equipment:) Guess what that will be
used for as well.
SATANIC May 28th, 2003, 07:06 AM

I'll have to try to make of these. I was going to do this at one stage with Australian Army videos and pictures, as I beleive
them to be the best.... as I would. One day when I get the time / patience.
Anyway, GREAT work with that vid, just the sort of thing I want to see. Have you got a list of all the videos that went into it ? I
would like to view all of them seperately too, and I only have half of them.
I assume my semi-absence from the forum over the last 6 months has made me miss some, but I'll have to find that "forum
pics an vids" thread. I just wish I had my own to contribute. I'll have to get myself a digital camera, movie camera if possible.
The song mentioned is " Feuer Frei ! " By Rammstein, and is a personal favourite, it's at the begining of triple x, in the club....
think of the face mounted flamethrower... I hope some of that clip can be included.....
Is anyone else having trouble downloading the videos from grouchy media ? I'm only after the SVCD versions, but they keep
disconnecting. Can someone up them to the FTP if they have them ??

Well DBSP, if you can find somewhere to fire that expensive ass fireball you have in mind be sure to tell me where I can get
the vid :D . Be sure to tell me how to get those vids that are on your FTP also as i would like to make one vid that has nothing
BUT explosions and fireballs. I now have a job so maybe I'll be able to buy a digi vid cam soon. I don't have a list of vids but
I will make a list when I can find the time. Many of the vids came off of member websites so if you want to see even more
than what were included in the vid go check out some of the sites, they're all worth your time :p An idea was also presented to
me by my friend. He suggested that I have a song playing in the background and then swap back and forth from explosions
and such to video of the band playing that song...
I plan on setting off some HE type fireballs on the 4th of July and ill put those in the next vid if I can manage to get vid of em
SATANIC May 28th, 2003, 09:15 PM

Go with the band playing inbetween, download feuer frei, and watch, there's clips of the movie xxx inbetween, there's the band
playing, albeit in the movie. just replace the xxx movie clips with explosive clips....... I hope that'll help, cos I really wanna
see it.....

heh heh. I'd like to see it too, but as of now I have 4 new vids from the forum and only 2 of which are explosions... Ill make it
sometime soon if i can manage to Dl the Rammstein vid and then some new forum vids.
Bryan May 29th, 2003, 03:54 AM

Most of the rammstein videos are full of pyro stuff, as the lead singer is a fully licenced pyrotechnic.
Maybe some big hollywood explosions, eg the building in the end of "Terminator 2 : judgement day", I love that movie.
Bryan
Ctrl_C May 30th, 2003, 12:20 AM

I'm downloading them all now. I'll get all of them for different resolutions and sized files and throw them up on the ftp, maybe
split them in hjsplit.

What program should I use to convert .mov files to .mpeg? and also I'm following up on my idea to make a video with some
other stuff (non-homemade), and some of my pics. Where can I get this "Wiagra" program, at www.wiagra.com they want you
to pay... or you only get a crappy 30 day trial. I'll d/l it and try it.
Bryan
PS I was thinking of putting it to "firestarter" by Prodigy
xyz May 30th, 2003, 06:16 AM

Firestarter is a good song (one of my favourites) but I don't think it really has the power and energy to be a worthy soundtrack
for explosions. Maybe Breathe or Smack My Bitch Up (If you want a prodigy song of course)?
But it's up to you what music you use.

Well, firestarter was the first to come to mind, maybe molotov bitch or fuel my fire by prodigy. I was gonna go for breathe but
I didn't see how it was gonna work. I was thinking maybe something by rammstein.
Bryan
NERV May 30th, 2003, 04:00 PM

00:15 two .22 rounds filled with .5g AP, and the cans they blew up.
00:47 30g of ANAP that didnt quite work right.
01:48 150g charge of ANAP
I have only one thing to say about this movie... DAMN! This movie rocks, everything seems to go along with the music
perfectly. Great job THErAPIST, this is definatly one of the best movies the forum has seen.
P.S. does anyone know who made that zip gun? That thing was sweet.

Good video, I liked it! If only more people could record their dreams... I wish I had a vid camera, it'd be great fun to play with.
Bryan May 30th, 2003, 11:14 PM

I got my camera fo $20 at a school fete, it's a total piece of shit, but I can't afford a better one.
I got a bunch of videos from places. who's was that at 2:30? I want that video. The final for mine is gonna be a video of the
MOAB going off. I still can't find a program to convert .mov files to .mpeg, I tried d/ling wiagra 3 times, and it corrupted each
time. I'll try with Ulead VideoPro 6.
Bryan
Axt May 31st, 2003, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by THErAPIST
An idea was also presented to me by my friend. He suggested that I have a song playing in the background and then swap
back and forth from explosions and such to video of the band playing that song...
I would not download a 20MB+ movie if it was half made up of a band playing a song ... very irrelevant to the forum. The one
youve done is the best way, and really well done. (except you included the cartoon character at the back :mad: .... bad!)
a_bab May 31st, 2003, 07:48 AM

The cartoon character is supposed to be part of The Forum's logo. I don't agree with this either as I really don't like these BS
japanese cartoons, but who gives a fuck...The video is really good.
THErAPIST June 1st, 2003, 12:53 AM

I know some of you guys don' like the anime stuff, but I like the pic simply because it says "A weapon of mass instruction." I
would rather make a movie with just a background song instead of a music video being swapped back and forth to, but I was
just putting the idea up to see what other members thought of it. The vids I have plans on making sometime in the future...
Vid of nothing but explosions, vid which is a really big picture slide show of all pictures I can find, a THE BEST OF vid which will
be the explosions and pics members liked the most, and a OVER TIME vid which will be the most memorable things that have
been seen on the forum from the beginning up until that time. The over time vid will most likely have more than one version,
and the vids will probably have to be played back to back because they will end up being far to large to DL if I just kept adding
on to the origonal movie. What do you guys think of the ideas? And thanks for the compliments on the vid. To tell the truth, I
was kind of suprised I didn't get flamed for trying to suck up to the members or something...
Zip gun which was at 1:07 was done by Axt IIRC

Beach explosion which was at 2:30 was by Spydamonkie IIRC
EDIT: I now have access to the forum FTP which means that I can now download and use a great many more videos and pics
in the videos that I will be making. Before I use ANY of the vids that are on the FTP, is there anyone who would like me to NOT
use their work? I just want to make sure I can use the material so I dont piss anyone off. If you don't reply saying that I can't
use the material, I will assume I am allowed to use it, and it will likely be used.
DBSP June 1st, 2003, 12:17 PM

I've upploaded most of my vids to the forum ftp, got some others I haven't found yet on my HD, I'll get them up as soon as
possilbe.
After next week I'm all free from school, so I'll try to get some projects started which may result in some nice vids, hopefully.
IPN June 1st, 2003, 03:15 PM

SWIM is going to detonate about 300g of ANNM next week and is going to take it on video. :D
THErAPIST June 2nd, 2003, 12:59 AM

I've noticed that a few people other than SWIM like to kill friut. Maybe I'll make a fruit destruction vid... :p
I get out of school wednesday for summer so I'll have more time to make vids and find abandoned pics and vids on the
internet of things that SWIM has done.
blazter June 2nd, 2003, 10:30 PM

WOW, I must say this is quite a work of art. The synchronization was very good, I especially liked the "everybody run!" lyric
right before the big one. Many of the bits are familiar, with a few ones I haven't seen yet. About the only big explosion that I
thought was missing was the one APAN video where a member posted a vid of a rotten stump exploding. It was one of the
more impressive pyro vids I've seen because the camera was left close enough where the bits of wood rained down on it, and
you could see the shockwave knock some nearby trees around.
THErAPIST June 2nd, 2003, 11:44 PM

Did the vid that you referred to happen to be a sack of AN that was in a hole in the side of a hill? Might it be the clip at 1:32?
If not I'll have to fnd the vid and put it into my next creation.
Boneless June 3rd, 2003, 03:52 AM

IIRC stump video was made by Guerilla.look APAN test page 4
THErAPIST June 3rd, 2003, 03:11 PM

Guerilla's vid isnt there anymore :( . Anyone have it that can upload to the ftp?
DBSP June 3rd, 2003, 04:37 PM

I've upploaded it to the FTP: apan.mpg
I've allso upped the last vids of mine now, So what I have got at the moment is up on the FTP. Only 3 days left in school now.
The movies are in the upploads folder btw.
THErAPIST June 3rd, 2003, 09:37 PM

SEE!! SOMEONE OUT THERE DOESN'T WANT ME TO HAVE GUERILLA"S VID! First its link is broken, now the uploads folder is shot
to shit and won't download... WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS?! thats alright though, I'll just give it a while and then I'll go
back and try again. DBSP... damn thats alot of vids. It seems I might have some to pick and choose from unless no one else
uploads any vids/ pics in the next few months :D .
GibboNet June 3rd, 2003, 11:52 PM

I don't believe you can download from the uploads folder at all. Not quite sure, check the forum FTP thread, or contact Ctrl_C.
I know I used to be able too, but after a while that stopped. I don't have nay FTP access since the re-signups started. I'll see
how that goes, or I'd double check for you.
Sorry I can't contribute anything.... I'll get a video camera before too long.
Skean Dhu June 4th, 2003, 04:54 PM

if only i had video editing equipment.
great job on the film by the way i can't wait till another addition comes out. i wonder what SWIM will have thought up then
hey THErAPIST, whats the comp in your pentagon salutes?
Bryan June 4th, 2003, 05:35 PM

The (VERY SHITTY) clip I'm working on is almost done, it's pics and clips from all over the place.
I want to know more about those pentagon salutes as well, how are they made? They remind me of those triangle things, I
think they're called polumas.
Bryan
Axt June 4th, 2003, 05:58 PM

Vod ... try,
http://www.itshappening.com/showthread.php?threadid=415
post it on their forum, then link to it here.

Skean Dhu June 4th, 2003, 06:44 PM
bryan, i looked into that last night after watching the fild for like the 25th time. and after 3 min of goole searching i found this
site. http://www.puzzles.com/PuzzlePlayground/StripToPentagon/StripToPentagonSol.htm
its kinda tricky but once you fig it out it seems so simple
THErAPIST June 4th, 2003, 08:25 PM

I have used everything in my pentagons. I have used flash, whistle, BP, AP, HMTD, DBSP, many different crushed up stars,
And ive mixed the comps. The things that were in my pentagons when I was at the house (the pics in the vid came from the
house) were DBSP, BP, and whistle.
My pentagons are pretty much big polumnas. What was linked to itn's how I make my pentagons and I dunno how well they
would hold the comp... Try to make em the way describen in the link. To tell the truth, polumnas are easier to make and can
be made MUCH quicker so I would just stick with those if I were you. I make polumnas most of the time.
I'll edit this post in a couple of hours and tell how I make pentagons just incase you get bored and want to make some. I've
got the mother of all headaches right now and I'm having a hard time thinking though, sorry. I'm gonna go sleep this thing
off...
GibboNet June 10th, 2003, 01:30 PM

THErAPIST, please could you do that ?
I'm very interested. I hope it's not the way where you jave to tie it in a knot and tighten + flatten at the same time. I tried,
and it became a big mess. :rolleyes: I can't even get that right. Anyways, if you have time..........
yt2095 June 29th, 2003, 10:33 AM

Therapist,
Holy crap dude, that clip rockz!

i couldn`t begin to guess at the amount of times i`ve played it :)
i have a question for you, well, all those concerned really, with regards to it`s copyrights etc...
i would LIKE to share it with my friends, and if possible, put it on my website.
i have only shown it to my wife (on my pc), and won`t even send it to hers until i hear from you. you have my word on that!
i`m sure it`s also down to the contributors too, and if anyone doesn`t wish me to share this file, then they ALSO have my
word, it`ll stay solely on my PC alone.
i can`t say fairer than that :)
if i AM given permission to make this available, please let me know what you would like writen as credits, as it`s too good a
peice of work NOT to have any!
feel free to mail me, if you don`t want to take up forum space.
i sincerely hope your going to make more!
all the best :)
DaveTheShit June 29th, 2003, 11:10 AM

...speaking of zero. I hope I'm not too far out of line when I ask, What heppened to him?
Just in case you or anyone else were still wondering, look here (http://www.totse.com/bbs/Archives/Archive-000007/HTML/
20030312-19-002625.html), but I warn you, the link is to an archived thread at, dare I say it, TOTSE. Excellant video by the
way, I would also like to share this, so let us know.

Why dare to say when admin there ? (no flaming though, just to point out. I'm not concerned)
THErAPIST June 29th, 2003, 07:05 PM

OH HOLY SHIT! I'm really sorry for not answering the questions guys, DAMN... UUUmmmmm ok lets see here.
Gibbonet:
I will upload pics later tonight of the pentagons and ill write a small tutorial on how to make them.
yt2095:
Do whatever you want with that clip. Send it to whoever, put it into other clips, put it on a dvd with other shtuff like it...
WHATEVER you want to do with it, feel free to. As far as credits go... I dont need any credit as my name is at the end in a pic
that got horribly fucked over when I put it into the vid... im sure you can think of something spiffy to say when it comes to
credit for the other members. Something like "all the home "dreamers" at the forum" would probabky work well.
David:
I found out what happened to zero in the thread I made about old members. It's kind of sad too. Thanks for replying and
putting up that link.
yt2095 July 1st, 2003, 12:57 PM

Therapist,
Ok, and thnx :)

but i shall wait a while; 1) i`m a bit new to Windows, and 2) on the off chance that anyone else objects.
i have too much respect and admiration for our members and info stored here, not to be 100% sure 1`st.
tho, before writing this, have sent it to my mate up north and he thinks it rules also (and he`s not even into pyro etc...)
thnx again all :)

and be sure the credits will do it justice!
THErAPIST July 2nd, 2003, 06:32 AM

Well if the people who don't even like pyro like the vid, then I guess I did a far better job than I thought I had done!
I'm truely suprised everyone likes it as much as they do.. I thought there was much room for improvement... We'l see just
how much better I can make the upcoming vid... "SWIM"
And the Pentagon salute tutorial that I made can be found
here (http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/users/68d63a18/bc/Pentagon+Salute.zip?bfprqA_A_DJVXEku)
yt2095 July 2nd, 2003, 07:03 AM

Hmm..
no luck with your link here?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Esane and dicloropropane
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Nevermore May 31st, 20 03, 08:0 8 AM

I found a few bottles of this com pound, used for stain rem ovals, i wonder if there is any reaction that i could try using those
chemicals. ..
Thanks
Arthis May 31st, 20 03, 09:0 0 AM

Maybe using dichloropropane to make conc. NA, norm ally dichloromethane is used, but it m ay work too. Need to check a few
properties of this solvent to see whether it would be fitted or not (though you wou ld have a lower yield, dich l o r o m e t h a n e i s
m uch better as told b y the patent).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Trinitro N Nitranilino Ethanol
Nitrate (Pentryl)
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webbsmurfen June 11th, 2003, 07:48 AM

I m g o i n g t o s t a r t a n e w scientific project. This tim e I m going to try to m a ke Pentryl in sm all volym es. (Trinitro N Nitranilino
Etha nol Nitrate).
Phenylethanolamine after nitration form s Pentryl. This is not to be confused with eutectic m ixtures of P.E.T.N. and other high
explosives. They are called pentryl also. Does anyone have any experience with it?
S o m e info about pentryl.

It's detonation velocity is 7300 M/sec.
It is 130% as powerful as T.N.T
Toxicity is listed as lo w?!
T h i s e x p l o s i v e s e e m s t o b e s e n s i t i v e , b u t d o n t h a v e a n y d ata at this point.

I'm a bit confused by your chemical name, are you sure it is correct?
The N-Nitroaniline bit, does that mean there is a nitrogroup connected to the N of the aniline?
webbsmurfen June 11th, 2003, 09:23 PM

Vulture: The whole nam e s e e m s t o b e 2, 4, 6- Trinitro-N-n itranilino Ethanol nitrate
B u t i n t h e b o o k Kitchen Im p r o v i s e d P lastic Explosives I I t h e n a m e i s
Trinitro N Nitranilino Ethanol Nitrate. So rry about that.
( T h e n a m e 2, 4, 6- Trinitro-N-n itranilino Ethanol nitrate did I find here. Search the p a g e b y p ressing Ctrl + F a n d s e a r c h f o r
Pentyl)
http://m ihailru.freeservers.com / s h o p p i n g _ p a g e . h t m l

The correct n ame is: "2,4,6-trinitrophenyl-N-nitraminoethylnitrate"
"Nitranilino" is not a correct discription of a functional group.

So I was righ t, there's a NO2 connected to the N of the "aniline", that's why it's a nitramine.
EDIT: That m o l e c u l e s e e m s to suffer from ALOT of steric hindrance. Positive heat of form ation too. So it se ems it would be a
sensitive and powerful primary?
Mr Cool June 12th, 2003, 05:49 PM

Not prim ary, apparently. A sensitive HE though, surely. Three C-NO 2's, an N-NO 2 a n d a n O - N O 2 !

v u l t u r e : T h a n k s f o r t h e i n f o ! Hm m . it s e e m s t o m e I d i d n t h a v e t h e correct inform a t i o n a b o u t t h e e x p l o sive.
A n d I nternet didn t m a k e m e a n y cleve r at this point
Tell m e s o m e m o r e a b o u t t h i s e x p l o s i v e
Mr Cool June 13th, 2003, 08:39 AM

From C O P A E :
Drop tests, u sing 2kg weight:
Pentryl...... 30 cm
Tetryl........ 27.5 cm
TNP.......... 4 2.5 cm
TNT.......... failed at 100 cm .
( 0 . 0 2 g m s a m ples.)
Slightly m ore friction sensitive than tetryl, m uch m o r e t h a n T N P a n d T N T . E x p l o d e s a f t e r 3 s e c o n d s a t 2 3 5 * C .
Minim u m a m o u n t o f l e a d a z i d e t o c a u s e d e t o n a t i o n :
Pentryl...... 0.025 gm
Tetryl........ 0.030 gm
TNP.......... 0 . 1 2 0 gm
TNT.......... 0 . 1 6 0 gm
( 0 . 5 0 g m s a m ples, weighed into #8 ca ses, weighed amount of primary put on top, then the whole lot was pressed using 3400
psi.)
Sm a l l T r a u z l t e s t e x p a n s i o n s :
Pentryl...... 15.8 ml
Tetryl........ 13.8 m l
TNP.......... 1 2 . 4 m l
TNT.......... 1 2 . 2 m l
L e a d b l o c k c o m pression test:
Pentryl...... 18.5 mm
Tetryl........ 16.6 mm
TNP.......... 1 6 . 4 mm
TNT.......... 1 4 . 8 mm
(50 gm s a m ples on a lead cylinder, 64 m m l o n g, exploded by #8's.)
Clearly it's quite powerful. It can be m a d e f r o m 2-chloroethanol (ethene + HO Cl) and aniline, and then nitrating the product
with mixed acid.

Mr C ool: Tha nks alot, this will be helpful.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > A review o f the crapbooks.
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megalomania June 14th, 2003, 05:06 PM

Plea se see m y thread in Issues and Opinions:

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Asbestos replacement ?
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Maybe this isn't quite E+W Forum material, I apologise.
Anyways, I'm looking for a replacement for asbestos, the flame proofer of decades now past. It's not used because the asbestos dust particles cause lung problems etc. That
wouldn't worry me, as I only want a small amount. But seeing as it's illegal to build with it, I can't find any anywhere.
Any Ideas ? So far I looked at Fire-proofing wood, but that won't work as it still chars slowly, metal / ceramic won't work, as it will transfer heat to the parts that will be wood,
and plastic will melt.
I'm looking for a sheet, quite thin, of flame / heat proof material. Am I asking too much ?
I just thought, I may be able to get a bunsen burner mat, I think they must be asbestos. Even then, not till school goes back, it's mid semester hols here.
Any Ideas ?
Arkangel June 16th, 2003, 10:27 AM

Giving us a clue what you're planning to use it for will probably get you a lot more help.
However, I would personally look for something like fibreglass or carbon fibre material (The carbon is 10 times as expensive - Kevlar, 20 times)
What you need is "woven rovings", not "chopped strand mat". The former is a rough woven and VERY strong cloth. The latter is made of chopped fibres, glued together loosely
- that disintigrates with heat.
Try looking for:
a. a fire blanket from a kitchen
or:
b. the flexible heat shielding cloth that plumbers use when soldering copper pipes in-situ
Like
this (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=17340&ts=70154)
kingspaz June 16th, 2003, 08:32 PM

i believe asbestos roof tiles are an alternative to slate tiles. i think they are still available.

Thanks, I think the fire mat would be best.
I know it sounds silly, but my younger brother needs help with a mdel boat, which he plans to make steam powered with a candle. He has a very good understanding of these
sort of things, but where to get asbestos had him stumped.
Thanks a lot, I'm still looking for asbestos, as I have seen it dumped behind houses etc when out and about.
I hope it may be of use to others too, I know I've looked for something similar before when soldering and testing my blowtorch.
Tuatara June 17th, 2003, 12:19 AM

What, precisely, are you wanting to do? Would glass wool do the job?
You really, really don't want to screw with asbestos, my parents neighbour made the mistake of sanding his asbestos decking - he died five years later from lung cancer. Its a
nasty, insidious killer, which is why people pay lots of money to have it removed from their homes.
static_firefly June 17th, 2003, 07:04 AM

Dont play with asbestos. I know a guy who got cancer after 2 weeks exposure, when pulling down a wall. (he got it years after pulling the wall down but the asbestos caused
it).
Iv found asbestos in old fibro houses. If you crack the wall you notice thread like crap, wich is ment to mean it has asbestos in it. If hes just useing a candle, use some alfoil or
something, cheap and when it does turn crap throw it out and make a new one

I know not to play with asbestos, the dangerous properties of asbestos have been well known for some time now, too many people have become victims of it's dust.
I can't use Aluminium foil, the heat will transfer straight to the balsa wood hull, (read my last post, I'm helping build a steam powered model boat) So that isn't a possibility.
Thanks for all your help anyway, I'll find something, but i think he's given up anyway.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > NBK2000's Book Unavailable
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controlphreak June 16th, 2003, 07:49 PM

I hope you don't think me rude, or wrong in asking this, as I will now only have 2 posts to my name, however, I was wondering something. I have seen many people refer to
the NBK2000 (which I will take w as named after the HED Executioner, because he compiled it or wrote it) and have even seen it refrenced for dow nloading in NBK2000's
signature. How ever, I have a slight problem. And I would like to apologize if this has been posted before. I am unable to download it. I checked on google, and the only thing
that I came up with was refrences to the w ebsite refrenced in NBK2000's signature, and forums talking about it. I would very much appreciate it, if someone would please shed
some light on this. You don't have to send it to me, or tell me where it is, though it w ould be appreciated, but merely point me in the general direction, and I will try to find it.
Thank you very much.
Controlphreak
chemwarrior June 17th, 2003, 01:12 AM

Tsk tsk. If you read through the Forum a bit more you w ould have quite readily found out that it is going to be a DVD, which you w ill have to buy. The only other thing is a
decent sized PDF which he uploaded to the (Unofficial) Forum Library, which even if your Einstein (w ell, I could be wrong in this..) you will not recieve access to for quite a
while.
Also, there is a search button which would have been really useful to you and would have saved me from having to write this.:rolleyes:
FragmentedSanity June 17th, 2003, 02:39 AM

The original NBK2000.pdf was a copy of NBK's website from years ago - Well before our resident executioner started being admin here. As such it has been spread all over the
place and a decent search should turn it up. My copy has a file size of 3.87MB - just so you know what your looking for. But I dont know whether or not NBK has given anyone
permission to host it these days. Im pretty sure it used to be kept on angelo's site.... but its been a w hile so I cant be sure.
I suggest you keep looking for this one tho, Then you too will have to wipe your chin whenever you think about the DVD version :p
++ ++++ +++ ++++ +++ +=
Watch it with the innuendo. NBK
nbk2000 June 17th, 2003, 04:30 AM

Anyone is free to host it if they w ant, as long as they don't try claiming it as their own, in which case things would get real ugly real quick :)
Way I see it, the more people who read it, the few er k3w ls we'll have, and the more criminals that'll be out there putting the fuck to a society I hate. :D
blindreeper June 17th, 2003, 05:02 AM

Yeh I'll host it if you w ant. It's only a geocshitties site but it w ill do. Can you email it to me? Ok thats not a good idea cause I know you don't email people as they would know
your address. Well can you give me a link so I can download it and then upload it to my site?
controlphreak June 17th, 2003, 11:31 AM

Well, I wanted to thank you all for pointing me in the right idrection,a nd giving me some clues to what it might be. I am off on my serach for it now , and shall eturn to this
thread and post w hen I have found it in triumph. Thank you very much for not flaming me. I appreciate it.
controlphreak

I am making it availiable on my site, and maybe a few others depending on whether that's ok with NBK.
I have a few other manuals too, I hope to make them availiable.
Has anyone got any manuals they wish to see on the net ? I plan to get as many as possible on the internet, as widely distributed as possible. Those w ho have manuals, get in
touch, (email preffered) and I will host them if possible, if not, I will at least try.
Also, anyone who is looking for manuals / related books, I plan to get a few online as w ell. Is there anything that has been on the forum before that people DON'T want posted
? maybe you only want them on your own site or something ?
I also plan to pay for hosting before too long, I hope that will give me the space I need.
For now:
[Links removed, problems on the server.... sorry. I did have the Makeshift Arsenal as well..... ]
Check my latest post, I will update this thread as mirror sites become availiable.
(I know someone was looking for the Makeshift Arsenal in another thread)
Like has been said, NBK's file is nothing compared to what the DVD will be.
People, the way to make sure these files are alw ays avaliable, w hoever has a host and can spare the room, make them avaliable there, soon everyone will be able to find
them no w orries.
Kid Orgo June 18th, 2003, 03:39 AM

Um, hang a big 404 on those links.
I'd host a copy, but the only space i've got is the FTP acct for my dialup, and that would definitely make it much easier for the piggies to hunt me down.
If anyone else has safer accommodations for the nbk book, however, I'd definitely like a link,

Really sorry guys, I did test the links straight after I uploaded them, but for somereason they are unavailiable. This may be a bandw idth restriction or something, because they
are still definately on the server when I log in through FTP, and I have not been contacted by the host. I will reply again when I have found more hosts, maybe a list of mirrors
will work better this time.
Has anyone here got free webspace w ith their ISP ? I would like any help here is possible.
Thanks, and sorry.
nbk2000 June 18th, 2003, 05:50 AM

The links w ork. It's just that the host has a daily dow nload limit. So, if too many people download it in one day, it'll temporarily 404, till the next day. :)

I suggested this to one other person w ho is looking for w ebspace. Over at the.HV Forum (The High Energy weapons forum) where they test things, and build some realy cool
things (foudn them from a previous post) is going to be moving to a new server and needs some help paying out the rent. So he is offering 500MB and 10Gig in Traffic per
month for only $4.00(u.s.) it's a subdomain, and may not be to interesting, but it is cheap, and it is good I think at least. here's the direct posting of what he said:
"Some of you may have noticed this site's been slowing down. Sometimes you click on a page and it says "server not found," or maybe it just takes 60 seconds to load. Other
times the site may not load at all, or w orse, it loads a page full of errors. Sure, 80% of the time, the site is fine... but that amount of time is eroding every week.
Well, this is the direct result of "bargain" hosting. I have to take w hat I can get, as I'm not guaranteed a certain amount of MySQL uptime, nor am I guaranteed a certain slice of
processor time. My yearly hosting contract with my provider is coming close to an end, and I don't want to have to renew my contract here, and force all my users to endure
another year of less-than-perfect hosting.
I have, therefore, decided to move 4hv.org to its very ow n server. Unfortunately, this is not an inexpensive solution, but it is a necessary solution if we are to allow 4hv.org to
continue to grow and expand. This is where you, the casual 4hv.org user, can take a big part of making 4hv.org a permanent success!
I am going to resell a very limited number of accounts on this new server. For just $4 per month, you can get your own subdomain here at 4hv.org, such as http://
spoz.4hv.org/ or something like that. I'm including 500MB of storage space, and 10GB of data transfer, as w ell as all the features you'd expect from a quality webhost. Read
more about it here. This is no joke. This is a highly reliable, dedicated server. It is available for anyone to sign up. The user doesn't have to be a member of 4hv.org, nor does
the user have to have any interest in what we discuss here. Feel free to refer this service to any of your non-scientific friends. If you participate in the referral program, you can
end up with extremely discounted or even free hosting.
Interested? I hope so! Feel free to ask any questions you might have, either in this thread, via IM, or through the email addresses given on the contact page.
If you don't need an excellent webhost, but you'd still like to help, check out the new "donate" link near the bottom left of each page. Anyone who donates more than $1 to this
cause will be recognized on the front page of this site."
and here is the link to the site:
http://4hv.org/
Hope that helps some!
controlphreak

My my, that sounds like a prety good hosting deal. I hope he dosn't get too many takers using the max space and bandwidth or that won't last long. But since this is being sent
to a limited community it should be fine.
Since there seems to be such interest in nbk's file, I would be happy to host it here at RogueSci. I had a copy, but it was corrupted, so if someone would be kind enough to send
me a copy...
controlphreak June 23rd, 2003, 01:55 PM

I have since found a copy of NBK2000's book, and would like to thank you all for your w onderful help in helping me get it. Also, meglomania, I would be happy to send it. Just
give me an address or website to give it to, and I will upload it.
On another note, I would like to know if anyone has taken advantage of the website deal that I posted about, and would like to obtain permission to post about that in it's ow n
thread for everybody's use. I do not beleive anyone would go looking for really good hosting in a thread like this. That is my reason for wishing to create a new thread and post
that.
Thanx
controlphreak
megalomania June 23rd, 2003, 10:30 PM

Just fire off an email to me and I will respond with a place to send it.
inFinie August 4th, 2003, 04:13 PM

where did you found a working link to the pdf exactly?
Mumble August 5th, 2003, 06:33 PM

Did any of you try to right click and chose "save target as" on the link in NBK's signature? Seems to work fine for me. If I actually click on it I get a 404 though. It's the 3.87 mb
one that w as spoken of earlier. It appears to be fully functional.
++ ++++ +++ ++++ +++
They were referring to when my file w as hosted on angelo's site, not the link provided in my signature, which is another site alltogether. ;)
GibboNet August 5th, 2003, 10:40 PM

The bandwidth limit is monthly, and is 5Gigs, so there shouldn't be a problem. I check it every now and again, so it's fairly safe.
Here's the two mirrors I should have posted a long time ago:
http://galileo.spaceports.com/~gibbonet/Nbk2000.pdf
http://gibbonet.hostrocket.com/Nbk2000.pdf
Here's the MakeShift Arsenal:

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~gibbonet/Makeshift_Arsenal.pdf
http://gibbonet.hostrocket.com/Makeshift_Arsenal.pdf
Here's the human Claymores part of "Swordfish" because I've been meaning to link it for ages now: http://galileo.spaceports.com/~ gibbonet/Swordfish_-
_Human_Claymores.rm
Email me if you find any links broken, I'll do my best to fix it up quickly. EDIT: fixed the swordfish link, thanks MrLoud.
nbk2000 August 6th, 2003, 03:35 AM

The sw ordfish clip is 404. :(
Though maybe it's just bandw idth restrictions, or maybe the server doesn't support RealVideo streams, so perhaps you should .ZIP it instead. ;)
++ ++++ +++ ++++ +
Now it goes and makes a liar out of me and starts downloading.
BTW, it's almost 5MB in size, so that may be w hy too.
More likely than not, someone is watching it via streaming, thus hogging the limited bandwidth your site is allotted. So you really do need to .ZIP it so people can't watch it
streaming.
inFinie August 6th, 2003, 09:14 AM

Thank you much for reminding Save target as. I always tried to use FlashGet:rolleyes:

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Armor Piercing Pennies and
Infinite Mirrors
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View Full Version : Armor Piercing Pennies and Infinite Mirrors

A while ago, there was a discovery special with devices that used a shaped charge to launch a deformed metal plate at a tank.
Could one do this on a small scale with pennies and plastique?
Is the copper in a penny pliable enough to be deformed into some sort of penetrator with a few grams of plasticized PETN?
If so, one could make a wicked grenade out of a few of these in a sphere configuration.
Armor piercing pennies. Imagine the coroner looking at a supposed gunshot victim to find a deformed Abe Lincoln in the back
of someone's brainpan.
a_bab June 18th, 2003, 05:33 AM

I don't think it'll work as a bigger mass is required for the projectile. Your pennies will becoame at best schrapnels, so no more
effective than a normal grenade.
nbk2000 June 18th, 2003, 05:51 AM

God damn! You must be psychic or something 'cause I had the same idea an hour ago on the shitter!
I was sitting there thinking about my thread on casting copper platters for use in EFP, and got the idea that you might be able
to use pennies to make tiny EFP charges for experiments, since they're copper too, and have seen mention made in a SF
training manual on the use of glass watch covers being used as such, so tiny sizes are possible.
The problem with pennies is that they're too thick. A 200mm EFP platter is only about 2mm thick. A penny that's only 20 mm
in diameter is 1 mm thick. Scaled up to the size of a 200mm platter, that would make the pennies thickness equal to being
almost an inch thick! :eek: Not very deformable. :(
Though anyone who lives near a railroad track has access to a wonderful mechanism that'll squash a penny to the the
thickness of a sheet of paper...a train. :)
The penny has to be a pre-'84, otherwise it's not really copper, but rather copper washed zinc. If you can find a section of track
embedded in concrete, that's helpful for finding the squashed pennies, since they tend to fly a bit once they're freed from
under the trains wheel.
Since you'll inevitably lose some, set a line of a few dozen along the rails, about a foot apart, and held in place with a spot of
tape or gum so they don't fall off of the rail from the vibrations of the train.
With the pennies flattened, you could then trim it on a grinder to make it round, insert it into a cardboard holder, and pack a
small amount of explosive behind it. But it works better if it's slightly concave, so you might wish to whack it with a ball-peen
to dent it on a bit prior to grinding.
Since copper work hardens, and hardened copper shatters, you'll have to anneal it in an oven to return it to a malleable
enough state for EFP use.
Using four times the platters weight in explosives is SOP, but given the tiny size of the platter, you'd likely be using 10x just
to have enough to stick a detonator in. Highly brisant explosives are required. TNP, DNU, RDX, PETN, NG, or similar would be
required. ANNM is too low powered for the job.
Penetration is typically 1/2 of platter diameter for charges over 3", with decreasing ratios for smaller platters, so that should be
about (maybe) 3-4mm (1/8") of RHA, at a range of less than a few feet, if everything worked perfect.
Something of such small size, using only a few grams of explosive, might be useful for taking out high-security locks, such as
Medeco and KABA, which are normally too tedious to pick/drill. With a "Penny" platter charge, you could blast a hole through
the shear line of the locks, allowing you to turn the lock cylinders. Though I'd think an SC more efficient...
Combined with a disintegrating or starch dilantant tamper, you'd hardly make a sound. ;)
Jhonbus June 18th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Ahh, squashing pennies on the train tracks brings back memories. We found the best place to squash them was just before a
station, so the train is moving slowly when it runs over them. Then they don't go flying after they get squashed.
Mr Cool June 18th, 2003, 02:57 PM

There is a company that sells mini-EFPs (and mini-SCs, too). They're 20mm diameter, and penetration is stated to be no less
than 0.5" into mild steel. They contain around 6g of RDX.
That's all "IIRC". The site specialises in EBW dets, they're linked to here, somewhere...
So even small ones can be quite efficient.
a_bab June 18th, 2003, 04:59 PM

YEs Mr. Cool, you are right. These cute mini-shapped charges are so interesting that I saved the page in my archive so I can
provide the link now: here (http://www.risi-usa.com/0products/3sc/page34.html) .
nbk2000 June 18th, 2003, 05:33 PM

I remember the site you mentioned. I also have their catalog. These devices are very precisely made, to a tolerance very
unlikely to be duplicated by the amatuer, though they'd work wonderfully for the lock blowing purpose.
zippoxiv June 18th, 2003, 07:21 PM

For taking out even a numer 5 masterlock a solution of MEKP sensitized with AP not only easy to make but also quite
effective. AP crystals are quite tedious to try to funnel into the keyhole of the padlock, but a solution of MEKP and AP can be
squirted in with an eye dropper and is fuse sensitive as well. Simply useing a spray insulation foam such as "Great Stuff" you
can seal up the lock to prevent the MEKP/AP solution from dripping out. Although quite loud I'm sure its possible to try to
muffle the sound somewhat.
Useing a modest amount of MEKP/AP solution you can reduce a no. 5 masterlock to only a few plates and a shackle, the
interior placement of the charge works well to break apart the padlock. After I find the time to do some more tests I will post
my results as to how much is needed to get the job done. The loudness factor is a bother, and any ideas as to how to muffle
the sound would be appreciated, would encaseing it in wet sand possibly do the trick?
Although squirting in a solution of two peroxides is a lot simpler than making a SC, when searching the topic of lock removal I
found that the job can be done with just a pipe wrench. A few examples can be found here (http://www.insight-security.com/
pf11-1.htm) . The concept of an extremely small SC has its applications, but when all you want to do is defeat a padlock,
there are much simpler methods to accomplish this type of task. Sorry if its a bit off topic, just seemed like a better
alternative than useing a SC to take out a padlock.
Kid Orgo June 18th, 2003, 07:36 PM

Heh. Liquid Lockpick. What about the fightclub method of liquid nitrogen or something and a tap from a hammer?
The pre-made shaped charges would presumably (if made from stable explosives) be more convienient for the well-prepared
criminal. No one dies if you drop the bottle. However, I really dig the liquid solution idea.
nbk2000 June 19th, 2003, 12:02 AM

MEK is a pretty strong solvent, so I'd imagine MEKP to be also, so I wouldn't use the spray foam. Also, once used, the foam
can becomes useless in a few hours. Better would be plain ol' clay.
Please notice that I never mentioned padlocks. Padlocks, like the master lock, often have much more interior space in their
bodies, allowing explosive to be inserted. Disc locks, especially, have a lot of interior space, hence the recommendation in my
PDF to fill them with AP and blow them open. :)
Medeco's and such have very tight tolerances and very little free space in them, so it'd be more likely to remain intact. Though
if you mixed MEKP and NG, that'd be quite a powerful liquid explosive, and likely fuse sensitive. And, given how it's a liquid,
you could allow it to seep into literally every little crevice in the lock prior to blasting it.
Do you coat your fuse to prevent the MEKP from soaking in and ruining it?
Noise is an issue but that could be offset by the speed gained by blasting the lock open in a few seconds, instead of drilling/
sawing/torching the lock open. A few grams wouldn't be any louder than a gunshot.
LN? How are you going to get it, transport it, and use it? It's a righteous pain in the ass to get, evaporates very quickly, and is
dangerous to handle. Also, the lock may not shatter, since the LN method depends on getting the lock body below the temp
needed for the metal to become brittle. Some metals actually become stronger when cooled. :(

Okay, what about engineering some kind of disposable thermal lance? You'd only need a few seconds of maximum heat to
burn out a lock. A single unit, with a reaction producing oxygen, and the usual, as in your thread about that o2/steel tubing
device. It could be very handy on a breakin. And pretty quiet, compared to a SC.
nbk2000 June 19th, 2003, 02:40 AM

Those are called "Firesticks".
Titanium-Boron-Teflon hand-held rods that produce a heat flux of 10,000,000 watts/square cm at 7,200 degrees F. used for
rapid rebar removal as well as melting of locks, hinges, burglar bars, etc. As fast, or faster than, explosive methods with no
support equipment needed.
And I've never been able to find a supplier of them either. :(
Though it certainly sounds doable, especially since there's so much patent literature on teflon oxidized incendiary
compositions. :)
A rather esoteric idea, but possibly useable during daylight hours, is a frensel (SP?) lens to melt the lock.
Even more unusual are "infinite" mirrors. This are arrays of small mirrors that concentrate the light from their large surface
down to a small square of light. Imagine concentrating a square yard of bright sunlight down into an inch. Cheap, quiet,
disposable. :D
Best of all? These things act like lenses, allowing for variable focal lengths...10 feet...50 feet...screw the lock, melt the
door...through windows...OH, arson! :D
Be parked across the street and set a room on fire by focusing sunlight from a folding mirror array in the back of a pickup
truck onto the curtains/furniture/papers.
Proceed to ignite every room on that side of the building on fire in like fashion. Whole building burns down in a matter of
minutes from dozens of ignition sites. Let the fire investigators puzzle that one out. :p
How about using said mirror array as a political tool by scorching anti-government graffiti on the sides of government
buildings? Computer driven servos allow for set up and evacuation prior to activation. And imagine the difficulty in trying to
remove scorched concrete from 10 stories up. :D
Would be a right shame if some office building full of servants of a tyrannical occupational government were to be "accidently"
torched in such a manner. Imagine all the buildings that would have to have their widows blocked up to prevent such a thing
from happening again.
Poor office workers would go insane from being locked up in a windowless prison not being able to see light of day...kinda like
those poor schmucks doing life in underground prisons for speaking out against said tyrannical government...fair is fair after
all.
THErAPIST June 19th, 2003, 04:04 AM

After looking at this topic SWIM decided to experiment with small SC's made with AP. At the moment SWIM didn't have any
copper sheeting or any pennies around as the jar full of change was taken to the bank a few days ago to have it all turned
into green, so SWIM just used AL foil to hold the AP in place. The first small SC was placed on a piece of 2 x 12 and then
leaned up against the mailbox. When the SC was initiated the metal plating used on the back was thrown 176 feet and 9
inches down the road. Yes the distance was actually measured. The second SC that was made was put on a 1x10 which was
broken in half and put pieces of wood 3 inches into the ground which the SC was suspended 4 inches above. A metal 3 gallon
can was placed up-side-down ontop of the 1x10 and a piece of wood was placed ontop of the can. When the SC was initiated
the metal backing was thrown through the top of the can causing noticable damage to the wood that was ontop of it. The SC's
only used .5g of AP, so I imagine a couple grams could make a pretty effective EFP if solid backing is used and if it were used
at close range (with flattened pennies as the EFP).
Pics (http://i-was-bored.8m.com/mini SC) of the crappy little SC's that were made to try to prove a point...
nbk2000 June 23rd, 2003, 03:18 PM

The link you provided doesn't work. Try posting one that works so we can see what you're talking about.
Kid Orgo June 23rd, 2003, 04:56 PM

I humbly suggest that this thread be moved to the appropriate non-WC location. This is getting interesting.
A 8.5x11 fresnel lens is enough to cook a hotdog over a few minutes. I can't imagine it would be cheap to get one large
enough to actually melt steel. But I am definitely enjoying the idea of optical weapons. That infinite mirror concept sounds
downright wicked. Aim that beam carefully enough, and the investigators might not be able to tell it wasn't a wiring fault that
burnt down some fuckers house. Or maybe they would. But if it hasn't been done before, it'd have to be intensely bright and
lucky investigator to figure out how it was done.
knowledgehungry June 23rd, 2003, 07:58 PM

The problem with that is that this is more than 2 different topics so opening new threads instead of moving this might be
advisable.
Kid Orgo June 23rd, 2003, 08:01 PM

Well, i've started a new threat on the liquid lockpick ideas (giving credit where credit is due)
I'm kinda sheepish about starting new threads, but i'll try to get the rest of this stuff sorted out, if it's not getting moved
anywhere.
-edit: Re-reading the thread, there's some pretty good thoughts on small shaped charges in here. With a bit of pruning, I
really do think it should be put in a better venue.
nbk2000 June 24th, 2003, 12:56 AM

We now have the ability to split threads into multiple parts. :)
Though this thread doesn't warrant that, otherwise we'd have done it already, eh? ;)

Well, the MEKP/NG thread generated useful discussion, so I assume I won't be reamed out for starting it.
And I think that might be the only part of this one that would do better anywhere else.
So, um... good.
THErAPIST June 24th, 2003, 01:23 AM

ARGH! The link worked for me but I know what was wrong with it so Here (http://i-was-bored.8m.com/miniSC) is the fixed link.
yt2095 June 24th, 2003, 09:04 AM

Still on topic, with a little mutagen added.
Ap and Pennies :)
when i 1`st made AP i was more than a little timid regarding it (i`ve since quit making it as i don`t quite trust it enough)
being new and timid towards it, i thought i`de try a few "bench mark" tests 1`st.
i lay a line of AP (about a pencil leed width) on my worktop, it was about 6 inch long, and then lit the end with a wooden spill.
woosh, nice yellow flash ( i use bicarb to wash it) and considerable heat with no residue! i was impressed. and so i did the
same again but made a longer line and lay 2p peices along it every 3 inch then lit it. it tossed the coins into the air about 4
inches (i couldn`t stop laughing) :)
next i did a 3 foot track down my hall way and lay masking tape over it then put my coins along it.
CRACK! and the coins went everywhere in a microsecond. shaken but impressed, i got to thinking wouldn`t it be a great
excuse to make it at school, if you claimed that you were using it as part of your maths homework in statistical probabilty of
the old Heads or Tails crap.
lay the coins heads / tails alternately and set it off then add them up :)
(i know, i should get out more!) :)
nbk2000 July 13th, 2003, 12:51 AM

Well, having found a semi-decent hobby shop right down the street, I picked up a dozen 1" mirrors for under a buck and
made a small "infinite" mirror array.
Using poster tack putty to hold them to the back of a hand-held mirror, I made a 4x4 array with a focus at 2'. I was able to
melt a pen with it. :)
By twiddling the mirrors a bit, I was able to focus them into a spot at 30' that made a can warm to the touch. The spot was
about 3-4" around at that distance, looking like a very bright projection of the sun.
Imagine this...an umbrella whose insides are covered in mirrors that, when opened, presents a very large mirror array with a
focal length of a few dozen yards. It may not be intense enough to set anything on fire, but it'll instantly fry eyeballs,
cameras, or exposed skin. :D
Bander July 13th, 2003, 07:26 AM

Although I'm sure most forumites are already well aware of Bill Beaty's page on Infinite Mirrors, providing a direct link for the
unaware could not hurt. INFINITELY LARGE SOLAR FURNACE (http://www.amasci.com/amateur/mirror.html). Not only does it
cover the topic fully, but on another page he expounds upon the idea with hilarious results.Kindergarten Solar-powered Death
Squad: Take a large crowd of children out into the sunshine and give each one a 20cm square mirror. Show them how to aim
all of their little spots of sunlight at the same distant object, then stand back and see what they do. Better yet, run away.
stickfigure July 14th, 2003, 09:45 AM

The only problem I can see with using pennies is that they aren't solid copper they have a zinc waffer in the middle which
might cause the penny to fracture into shrapnel instead of deform into a penetrator. To check this out dump a penny into a
bath of 20% Nitric Acid and wait about a minute. Also don't breath the gas as it is chlorine and toxic as we all know. Your result
should be a zinc waffer with Lincolns head on it.
nbk2000 July 14th, 2003, 11:51 AM

Pennies made in '83 or earlier are mainly copper. It wasn't until '84 that they started making them out of copper washed zinc.
Dunkelmann July 14th, 2003, 12:55 PM

you could hide the mirror under a screen that allows only the infrared part of the sunlight to get through, this would prevent
you from being spotted because of the bright focus.
(or use mirrors coated with IR-Filter)
Another idea is to use IR-Lasers to ignite something from remote, you can use one very stong laser or an array of smaller
ones that would be focused. Works even in the dark.
you might even burn somebodys eye from a few hundred feet distance. To aim in the darkness, use a small camera that is IR
sensitive, they are pretty cheap.
nbk2000 July 14th, 2003, 02:16 PM

There are mirrors intended for lasers that are tuned for maximum reflectivity in the IR range, but they still reflect normal light,
so you'd still be spottable. Plus, they're obscenely expensive. :(
But, there's no reason why you couldn't use IR filter film placed in between the path of the mirror and target to filter out the
visible part. If it was segmented so that each mirror segment is individually filtered, then there'd be no heat buildup in the
filter material like there would be trying to filter a square meter of concentrated light.
Problem with filtering is the energy loss caused by the filter. They typically cause 80% loss in transmitted energy. :( So you'd
need a mirror array 5 times larger than the visible version for similiar power output.
Using IR lasers is ridiculous. Anything powerful enough to be useable as a weapon is going to be incredibly expensive, plus
require a generator to power it. A mirror array is cheap, cheap, cheap by comparison.
A square yard of 1" mirrors would cost less than $100 to make. Full sunlight is about 1365 watts of energy per square meter at
sea level. Assuming only 1/10th of that was IR, that'd be 136 watts of IR energy for $100. A 3 watt commercial IR laser runs
about $40,000. :eek:
Even though it wouldn't have the focus of a laser, I'd rather use the mirrors, thank you very much. :p
kinetic July 18th, 2003, 12:23 AM

The shaped charges that fire a blunt-nosed projectile you are refering to are called platter charges. The first demolition school
I went to we used 1/2" thick milled, round steel plates that weighed 3 pounds each. We cut the bottom out of coffee cans and
used the sides of the coffee cans as the sides of the platter charge with the steel plate or "platter" forming the bottom. i
packed 3 pounds of C-4 on the back side of the plate and primed with a uli knot of detcord. I made a primitive aming device
made of scap tin and then aimed the charge at a compact car. The other students aimed their platters at the same car (a total
of 5 I think). All the platter charges were about 7 or 8 meters from the car. The entrance holes were about 6 inches in
diameter. They entered the left front door. The exit holes were about 1 to 1.5 feet in diameter and the inside of the car was
completely shredded. There was foam from the fron seats hanging out of the exit holes! :D I have photos that I will upload as
soon as I get my scanner working. BTW, I have been to several demolitions schools and taught demolitions in a special
operations unit so I have quite a bit of the "hoarded" info that mega was speaking of. Lots ao good pics too. I'm not very
good with computers though so you will have to be patient with the pics.
Here is an exerpt from one of my manuals on platter charges:
"This device uses the Miznay-Shardin effect. It turns metal plate into powerful, blunt-nosed projectiles. Round platters are
preffered, but other shapes will work. The platter should weigh two to six pounds. Steel is the material of choice, though any
non-cast metal will work. The explosive weight should be equal to the platter wieght. Prime this chrge from the rear center..."
Also, a slightly convex shaped platter is optimum. Even though the manual says that explosive weight should equal platter
wieght, if you were using ANFO, I would beef it up quite a bit (by a factor of 80% since the RE factor of ANFO is .54 and the RE
factor for C-4 is 1.34). These have outstanding armor pertration- even more than you would expect.
yt2095 July 21st, 2003, 11:58 AM

thinking about mirror and focal length, perhaps reflective film (like the sort used in hypothermia blankets) stretched over a
frame with a small disk and loop glued to the center of the film.
the loop atatched to string and pulled would adjust the focal length from infinate down to a few yards (at a guess).
the frame could be made collapsable for portability, maybe something along the lines of a hang glider slotted tube design?
I`m fairly sure the Hubble telescope uses a similar principal for focus fine tuning using servos.
I wonder what size you`de need for an environmentaly friendly cigarette lighter? :D
nbk2000 July 21st, 2003, 06:47 PM

Rat-shack used to sell a solar cigarrette lighter that was about the size of your palm. :rolleyes:
I dont' think you could use reflective film as is, since it'd need to have a very smoothly graduating curve to it to be able to
reflect the light into a coherent spot far away. Any errors in the curvature would be magnified over distance, resulting in a
useless (for pyro) glare.
Now, if you could get a self-supporting plastic inflatable reflector constructed, then that might be feasible. It would be compact
when deflated, and rigid when inflated, being in the shape of a parabolic dish with one side coated with mylar film to act as a
giant reflector. Though it'd have to used in a no wind enviroment to prevent distortion.
anthracis July 22nd, 2003, 06:57 PM

I've done a lot of experimenting with small shaped-charges of AP and HMTD inside pencil lids. The amounts of primaries were
quite low, you can imagine, but I pressed them with the tip of the pencil (VERY careful, of course!!) so a cone resulted, inside
the mass of primary explosive. A simple fuse was attached before pressing the primary. Sometimes, before using these small
charges I put some aluminium foil inside the cone, but I don't think it really improved the results.
The results were amazing: these small shaped-charges made holes of 0.5-0.8 cm diameter in thick (about 1mm) steel coins
("100 lei" Romanian coins). I've clearly noticed that HMTD charges were stronger - it was a lot easier to press, so this may be
a cause...Anyway, I know this is not a safe device and it has to be handled with great care.
Then, as I remember there is an incendiary mixture made of plaster of Paris (anhidrous CaSO4) and Al powder. I presume it
is easier to ignite than thermite and perhaps it can be used for melting some locks or whatever. One can design the shape of
this incendiary mixture in order to get the best results...What do you think?
Ansgar July 27th, 2003, 09:32 AM

I was thinking along the same lines as yt2095 though just using an ordinary glass mirror as I think they distort the light much
less. Problem is just that they can be deformed only very little.
Example... Suppose a circular glass mirror 2mm thick and 1000 mm in diameter could stand having the center displaced 4 mm
(I think it is possible) and that the deformation is equal and symetric in curvature. Then that would result in a radius of about
31 m and a focal length of 15,5 m. However at that distance the focalspot would probably never get smaller than perhaps
about 3 inches ?
The displacement could be achieved by glueing (?) a bolt on the back of the mirror and tightening the nut accordingly in the
back of the frame that holds the mirror. A M6 with a threading of 1 mm per rotation should allow adequate precision in
adjustment.
vulture July 27th, 2003, 11:51 AM

Get yourself a cheapo/used telezoomlens, somewhere in the 70-300mm range.
Point the lens surface to the mirror and use the variable focus and focal length to adjust the distance/concentration of your
hotspot.
Much easier than trying to focus a large surface mirror.
In fact, photographers have to keep their lenses covered as long as possible when shooting directly at the sun, because
otherwise they'll fry through the shutter mechanism in a matter of a few minutes.
yt2095 July 27th, 2003, 12:24 PM

Vulture,
quite true, I`ve built a device using a similar principal, not solar though. I use a 12.5W halogen 6V bulb and the cariage and
battery from a camcorder light attatchement.
mounted there the frosted glass diffuser cover is a lens ripped from an old photocopier.
its focal length is roughly 3Cms to a 2mm spot.
it will set fire to paper through a sheet of glass. this is lame I know, but I`ve even wrote my name on a black tape casette
through the clear plastic casing :)
the whole device weighs less than 800 grams and will fit easily into a pocket, I`ve also lit a cigarette for my wife through the
car window :)
I`m sure someone will come up with some sort of dark application for this. so I`ll say no more :)
Lead Storm December 13th, 2003, 07:00 PM

Ive Actuallty done this today instead of a penny i used a Quarter. I inserted the quarter into a bottlecap full of AP and put in a
fuse. As a target i used a cast iron pan infront of a tree and the quarter cut cleen through it. The distance between the pan
and the bottlecap platter charge was about 2 feet. Ill put up pics soon.
matjaz December 26th, 2003, 09:07 AM

I'd like to remind that the Sun is not a point-source of light. No matter how perfect a mirror one makes, the diameter of the
hot spot at the focus will be around 1/110 of the focal distance, since the Sun's apparent size in the sky is half a degree. It's
an inherent limitation, so additional lens, whatever... won't help here.
This means two things:

1. The bad thing is the few kilowatts that you can collect with a reasonable mirror array will be spread over a square foot if you
are 30m away from the target. Not much of a heat...
2. The good thing is that if you make a segmented mirror, made of many smaller ones, you don't need to have really small
ones and therefore that many of them. They can be about as big as the hot spot, without a bad loss in heat concentration.
Oh, a variant on the kindergarten death squad. Imagine a football game. The entire spectator's tribune (that how you'd call it?
) well visited by our forumites. On a sunny day. With a 15" mirror each. You get the idea. It adds to around one megawatt.
(Anyone been playing with a lens and ants as a kid?)
matjaz January 1st, 2004, 11:54 AM

Lead Storm,
how thick was your target dish? And, how did the coin hit it? Do you have a round hole or a narrow one, indicating the coin cut it
with its side? I wonder for how long can one make the coin fly more or less flat-on...
nbk2000 January 2nd, 2004, 12:48 PM

There's a trade-off made when choosing mirrors.
Many small mirrors increases effective heat per square measure of mirror surface, though with decreased range.
Larger mirrors increase distance, but with decreasing effective heat as the size of each mirror cell is increased.
Please read the link provided by Bander before commenting on it.
matjaz January 2nd, 2004, 07:21 PM

NBK,
this William Beaty chap got it wrong so let's not wave his web page as the reference work.
Below, I tried to draw what really happens. The shape of the hotspot is a combination of a circle (of about 1/100 of the focal
distance in diameter) and the shape of a mirror segment. (Or, as mathematicians would call it, a convolution of the two
twodimensional distributions.) The size of the circle does not depend on the size of the rectangle!
You can reduce the spot size - and make it hotter - by either reducing the focal distance or mirror segment size or both. The
guy blew it because the blurring effect is just more _visible_ with smaller mirror chips, as the hotspot becomes evidently
nonrectangular (you get to convolve a smaller rectangle with the same circle). But the "amount of blurring" is the same - he
didn't figure out that one. Every point on a flat reflective surface has the same "pinhole effect".
It also makes it obvious when you consider the limiting case where the mirror chips are reduced to very tiny ones. That would
be a smooth concave mirror and it is of course ridiculous to claim that the useful range of it would be zero.
Once again, for a fixed total area of the furnace, you don't lose anything in performance or range of the system if you use
smaller segments. So there's no trade-off here. You indeed gain. It's just that you don't gain much if you intend focusing it far
away. So it's not worth the extra work. In this spirit, you can still use Beaty's numbers, since he got those right.
[Damn, no attachment button in this thread...? And I've produced such a beautiful illustration... :( Oh well, if you need to have
a look at it, I can email it to you.]
If you click the "new reply" button instead of using the quick reply, you should be able to attach your image
I did that, but in this thread, the "Browse" field just doesn't appear. I do get it in other threads but not in the ones of the
Water Cooler. I guess that's to prevent smartass newbies like me from overloading the forum. :)
NightStalker January 3rd, 2004, 12:32 AM

Having built a small one, I'd say there's definitely a loss of heating effect using large pieces of mirrors, compared to many
smaller ones, for the same area.
And the smaller pieces don't reach as far as the large pieces, at least as far as heating is concerned, so I'd have to disagree
with you there too.
Have you built one yourself?

matjaz January 3rd, 2004, 05:53 AM

NightStalker,
no, I haven't built a furnace like that.
Yes, we absolutely agree on your first point, I'd say that's the trivial one. As Beaty notes correctly, "more beams on the same
spot".
As for the second one, I will take a guess at what went wrong with your trying smaller segments. It must be quite a pain to
focus them well because the light patches are smaller and need to be aligned much better to get an overlap. But there is no
inherent increase of spread from each segment just because the chips are smaller.
(Another point: with smaller mirrors on the same board, you might have had the same gap width between mirrors. This
effectively decreases the total area.)
[edit by matjaz: rephrased]
[edit2 by matjaz: No, even the alignment problem couldn't have been the cause. Smallish pieces can be off-focus as much as
the bigger ones, still giving the exact same heat on the hotspot, since there are many of them to average off. The alignment
issue only comes in to allow even some extra gain with smaller ones if you're really careful. Another option is loss on the chip
edges if they are not cut cleanly or if they are thick and tilted a lot with respect to the mainboard plane (short focal distance).
Other than that, no other mechanisms I can think of....]
Jacks Complete January 4th, 2004, 12:52 PM

I still have a box full of 2x2cm mirror squares I cut up years ago for this. I could never get the damned things to stay still,
and so gave up. (It would have been wildly heavy, too.)
How are people keeping the mirrors solidly in place?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > NG questions
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Sonny Jim June 18th, 2003, 03:37 PM

Hello. I was wondering what colour NG should be for it to work properly. I set off a batch the other day and it worked fine, as a
opaque grey-white colour. I have read that NG should be clear to signify that there is no water present in it, but since the other
day it worked fine as the grey-white colour, I th ought that what I read was inaccurate.
However, tod ay I tried to detonate another batch of the same colour and it did not work as well. Instead of the flash and the
loud report I got the other day, i was mortified to watch it simply burn and m a k e t h e o c c a s i o n a l ' p o p ' .
Both batches stood for over 2 days in a saturated NaCl solution, and neither of th em went clear. So if the problem is there
bein g water present in the NG, then the recom mended way of rem oving it hasn't, in my case worke d. Are th ere any other ways
to remove water from NG I can try?
Also, is it right that NG should be m uch m ore runny than glycerine? In m y case it is.
T h a n k s i n a d v a n c e f o r any help offered.
IPN June 18th, 2003, 04:03 PM

C h e c k B r a i n f e v e r s p a g e f o r g o o d v i e w o f p u r e N G a n d n o , I m not giving you a link..

Sonny Jim: Visit
http://www.geocities.com/brainfevert/hom e.htm l
ALENGOSVIG1 June 18th, 2003, 05:50 PM

Your NG definately sh ouldn't be opaque and grey! It should be clear and colourless like water. You m ust not be washing it
properly. First, wash it in fresh water fo r a couple hours. Then ad d it to some bicarb solution, and let it sit for 12 hours. Again,
wash it with bicarb for 12 hours, then finally wash it in saturated salt solution with a bit of bicarbonate added if you wish. During
all these steps, you should stir stir the NG vigorously for 5 minutes with a plastic drinking straw every few hours so the NG
breaks up into very sm all blobs and is better exposed to the washing solution.
R e m eber to clean whatever you use to extract the NG with between washes.

Thanks for the help. It m ust just be m e being impatient. I'll be certain to ensure it's clear before I try and set som e m o r e o f f .
O n e m ore question if you don 't m ind. W hat is your preferred m ethod of setting off straight NG. The successful test I did was
with a HMTD detonator taped to the main charge. I have a feeling that was not nescessary, but as it was the first time I'd
prepared NG (adm ittadely at a poor quality), I wanted to make certain it would go. Will a sim ple fu s e d o , o r d o y o u
recom m e n d a d e t o n a tor?
knowledgehungry June 18th, 2003, 09:53 PM

HAHAH now i know wh y your second NG attem pt failed, NG must be deton ated, it will merely burn if lit by visco.
ALENGOSVIG1 June 19th, 2003, 12:56 AM

Your m aking nitroglycerin and you don t even know the basics principles of explosives. BAD com bination. Alm ost all high
explosives need to be detonated with a blasting cap.

I don't recall ever saying that I only lit the second NG batch with a fuse. In fact, I stated that I used a detonator the first tim e,
a n d d i d n o t c o m m ent on how I set off the batch that turned out to be a failure.
D o n ' t a s s u m e t h a t j u s t b e c a u s e I ' m n e w h e r e I a m stupid.
I was merely asking a questio n. I have read endless tails about NG's extrem e sensetivity, so I tho ught it would be a fair
question to ask if a fuse alone would do the trick. I suspected it might not, which is why I used a d etonator on both occasions.
The only difference between them is that the second de tonator was sm aller.
ALENSOVIG1, your point is fair enough, but the reason I ask questions is to further m y understand ing of the 'principles of
explosives'. I can't just know everythin g automatically.

Sonny Jim, NG is a secondary explosive. its not as sensitive as people would have you believe. it is very sensitive for a
secondary explosive but not com pared to prim ary explsoives. because it is a secondary exploive you will need a detonator. just
be sure to treat it with respect. i recom m e n d y o u r e a d a lot m ore about explosives before you go any further. you m ust know
exactly what you are doing and W HY you are doing it during each synthesis step and during purification and detonation. if you
know exactly W H Y y o u a r e d o i n g s o m ething then you understand it and not m a k e m i s t a k e s .
if yo u h a v e a n y q u e s t i o n s n o m atter how stupid you think they are email them all to m e and i'll so rt you out.
nbk2000 June 20th, 2003, 01:22 AM

The fact that you asked if fuse was useable for detonating NG shows that you have no clue.
Sonny Jim June 20th, 2003, 08:14 AM
Ah but now I know that a fuse is not suitable, so due to m y asking, I now have a little more clue than I did before!
I have to find things out som e way or another. I have read quite a bit about NG and explosives ge nerally, but everything I can
find speaks only of how to m ake it, no t how to use it.
That's what I'm here for. To learn things. I m ay be a little ignorant comp ared to a lot of you, but I don't want it to stay that
way! I don't want to try and pretend I know eve rything just to m a k e m e l o o k g o o d . I ' m m ore bothered about actually learning
stuff, even if it makes me look a bit of a prat at tim e s .
NGfan February 26th, 2007, 01:40 PM

Y e a h . . T h e p eople here prefer it if you just don 't ask these things, just search, and learn. If this was in any other category, like
"High Explosives" it'd be out so fast you wouldn't have seen it go. Anyway, I looked up everything about it before I first m a d e
it, and knew it'd not go off unless by shock or pressure. It's sensitive enough that you can use gunpowder to set it off, if you
use it properly confined. Still, you mad e i t , s o g o o d e n o ugh.
Gothy February 26th, 2007, 03:08 PM

NG isnt really hard to detonate in pure form . As NGfan says, it can be detonated by blackpowder, flashpowd er etc.
The way I prefer to do it with pure NG, is that i take a film-canister(depending on how m u c h y o u h a v e o f c o u r s e ) , a n d m a k e a
s m a ll hole in the top.
I then make a little d etonator with HMTD or AP, by putting it in a square piece of plastic foil, I then pouch it and put a fuse in
it.
Then I tape it to m a k e s u r e i t h a s a t l e a s t s o m e confinem ent. As to the fuse, I put a sm all piece of isolating tape at the point
where it goes thorugh the hole in the lid, to m ake sure it is tight.
It doesn't really get perfectly tight, but for me it works. I don't have to transport it more than a stonesthrow to set it off
anyway.
tomu February 26th, 2007, 05:17 PM

Don't tape a detonator/blasting cap to the outside of the explosive charge, im m e rse it com pletely into the explosive.
In civilian and m ilitary blasting operations with just a few exceptions (like det cord) the blasting cap is com pletetly e m b e d d e d
into the explosive. The wrapping of the explosive is punctured with a pick like too l and the cap is totally inserted directly into
the explosive.
An im provise d cap should be sealed with bathroom chalk or a sim ilar com pound for use with liquid explosives like NG.
Gothy February 26th, 2007, 05:37 PM

Y e s I d o i m m erse it in the explosive(h ence pricking a hole in the canister-lid for the fuse). I was tired when writing it :P
And with an im provised cap/prim ary-co ntainer, I do not store it anyway. So plastic wrapping works for me, regarding the few
m inutes it takes from production to de tonation.
The_Duke February 27th, 2007, 12:05 AM

Did som eone delete a post? Gothy?
N o n e t h e l e s s s o m e o n e r a i s e d a f o u r y e ar old thread to add nothing of any use or interest... :rolleyes:

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Adobe Acrobat pro 6 now available, sort of
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I have been tracking the warez release of Acrobat 6 for the past few weeks and it is finially here. Unfortunatly I found this one site too late as it has been so popular today is
the last day :( I don't have the fat pipes to d/l it in time, but one of you might be able to in time.
http://www.cdrsoft.cc/index3.html
Here is an FTP site with several rar files:

ftp://63.202.159.175/Public/aux.tagged%20/43275062%20/43275593%20/43276125%20/43276687%20/favas/
UPDATE: It looks like the cdrsoft site has already removed the file :( Of course with almost 7500 downloads I am sure it will be popping up more and more. Damn, I wish I had
checked the site a few days ago.
peterthesmart June 18th, 2003, 11:17 PM

I've been able to get Adobe Acrobat 6 Pro through MIRC, a chat program from a warez channel. If you would like additional info I'd be happy to help you but this isn't really a
forum to be discussing about warez. This process takes some time, usually a few hours but its worth it.
Rhadon June 19th, 2003, 09:48 AM

The by far easiest way to get all kinds of data (i.e. applications, computer games, movies, etc.) is filesharing. I've found my favourite program with Emule Plus (http://
emuleplus.sourceforge.net) (in order to download it, click on a mirror next to eMule Plus 1f (binary)). It contains no spyware, is fast and very comfortable: you need nothing
else to do than making use of the search function and choosing a file from the results (for movies, it's recommended to do a fakecheck for the file).
Downloading files that way takes a little longer than a direct download, but all in all it's faster because you don't have to check 100 warez sites before you find what you want,
especially for rare files. Plus, there are no kicked files and no-one bothers you to vote for their site or visit their "sponsors".
Since I do also need Acrobat 6 Pro, I'll download it and place it on the Forum FTP next week or so.
peterthesmart June 19th, 2003, 10:46 AM

I can upload Adobe Acrobat 6 to the forum FTP now if you would like me to. All I need to know is where to upload it to.
megalomania June 19th, 2003, 11:02 AM

FTP addy is 209.195.155.80
user:ewf
pass: sd332gf
go to uploads folder
peterthesmart June 19th, 2003, 11:45 AM

I'm trying to upload the file but the server keeps denying me permission to add files.
Rhadon June 19th, 2003, 04:09 PM

It looks like the Forum FTP is not fully working at the time, so we'll have to wait until Ctrl_C can fix the problem.
nbk2000 August 20th, 2003, 07:28 AM

A OCR I did of a review of Acrobat 6. 465kb.
megalomania November 28th, 2004, 02:02 AM

Oh happy day. While looking for tips on advanced acrobat uses I went to the adobe website and saw they just released Acrobat 7! It looks like they may even make a free trial
available (suckers), but not quite yet.
I am not quite sure if it is available. The only place I could find that sells it is Adobe itself, but they say to expect shipment by the end of December. If anyone finds this kindly
point me in the right direction.

Fuck! I'm just learning how to use 6 decently and they're already coming out with 7?!
WTF! How the hell are people supposed to get proficient if they're constantly changing up on you with 'New & Improved' versions every year? Sounds like a case of needless
'upgrades' to keep up the profit margin. :mad:
megalomania November 29th, 2004, 05:16 PM

I read somewhere were they have an average of an 18 month product cycle for Acrobat. I know it seems it just came out yesterday, but it has been 18 months already. A dot
release would make more sense, but you don't make money selling dot releases. At least we don't have the added worry of bothering to pay for the thing :D
megalomania January 2nd, 2005, 11:28 PM

It's here! I am uploading version 7 and a keygen to the FTP right now. It should be up sometime tomorrow.
EDIT: I just found another website offering a direct download. I suggest you get it there while it is hot as these kinds of sites have a short half life.
http://84.252.140.50/aa7pro/

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Lead mon oxide
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I h a v e a n o t h er question. Sorry to ask about a lot of stuff but I'm at the stage where I know just enough about chemistry to
realise there is loads I don't know!
I was wondering if you could tell me about lead m onoxide. I want to perhaps m a k e s o m e lead picrate, since the procedure is
s u p p o s e d l y e a s y , a s a n a l t e r n ative to peroxide explosives for m y detonators. (I think the chemists are wondering why I buy so
m uch H2O2)
I h a v e s e a r c h e d t h e s i t e a n d t h e n e t a s a whole, but cam e up with nothing helpfu l. Everyone who mentions it seem s to already
know everything about it, so they only mention the chem ical's nam e in their posts I found .
C a n y o u m ake it sim ply by strongly he a t i n g l e a d ? T h a t ' s m y b e s t g u e s s .
Thanks all.

i haven't actually done it but it can be done by mixing bits of lead with excess KNO 3 a n d h e a t i n g .
it reacts as follows:
Pb + KNO 3 --> KNO2 + PbO
the KNO 2 c a n b e u s e d t o m a k e DDNP (bitch of a procedure). i th i n k P b O c a n b e b ought somewhere. can't rem ember where
though!
i think you could also dissolve lead in nitric acid and then heat the resulting lead nitrate to m a k e P b O . w o u l d b e a w a s t e o f
nitric but if you can buy 65% HNO3 easily then its not going to be costly.

Thanks for the help Kingspaz, it is very much a ppreciated.

i just realise, it may help to actually give you the basics of the procedure. get a can, throw in an excess of KNO3 and the lead
powder/pieces. heat the m ixture to its melting point and hold at this tem perature for 2 ho urs or so. KNO3 melts at 334*C if i
r e m e m ber correctly. you can use the phase change between solid and liq uid to give a rough indication of the tempe rature. to
extract the lead m ooxide just allow the m ix to cool and break it up. then wash all the KNO 2/KNO 3 and othe r soluble s out of the
m ixture. you should just be le ft with lead m o n o x i d e p o s s i b l y c o n t a m inated with m etallic le ad.
IPN June 20th, 2003, 05:04 AM

I am in a happy mood so I decided to help a little.:)
I calculated the m olar am o u n t s o f r e a c t a n t s n e e d e d : K N O 3 ( 1 0 1 g) + Pb (207g) --> KNO2 (85g) + PbO ( 2 2 3 g )

As Kingspaz said heat at 334C for 2h, dissolve in water and filter, in the filter is the PbO a nd in the solution is the KNO2.

SW IM m ay try that, because as far as these things go this is the best(m ost efficient) chemical reaction involving explosives he
h a s s e e n , n o r m ally you only get one u seful product but here you get TWO . I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Will let you know
resu lts after SW IM attempts. SW IM will do a go od write up with the procedure he/she used and if it hasn't been covered in a
thread I shall probably post his work in the Chemicals section.

BTW , take care when handling the KNO 2 solution. Nitrites are poisons and probab ly carcinogen too. In dry condition it won't be
absorbed through the skin but I don't know about the solution.
And ofcourse watch out for lea d vapours.

W ill do, Always one for being cautious anyway.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Detonateing KMNO4
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static_firefly June 26th, 2003, 10:55 PM

Hey
I was reading up on detonateing chlorates and nitrates and though, would it be possiable to detonate kmno4 and if it is would it be very good?. Swim might try it soon as he
access to MEKP and AP. He was thinkign about mixing the kmno4 with the mekp to form a slurry, then detonate that with a cap of ap. However does anyone think this will
work?

As KMnO4 is a very good oxidizer and with the right fuel a hypergolic reaction will take place. These are often very violent. I would not be the one wanting to try and mix a HE
with KMnO4 with no idea how it would react. I may try this as I have some MEKP and KMnO4 lying around.
I don't see why the KMnO4 wouldn't detonate but I really don't have much experience with that sort of stuff.
vulture June 27th, 2003, 07:16 AM

Argh for god's sake people keep coming up with stories of oxidizers being able to detonate. This is not true. Mixtures of oxidizers and reducers are sometimes able to detonate
but oxidizers on themselves are not. Why? Simple. The decomposition of most oxidizers is either slightly exothermic or even endothermic. So the decomposition reaction can
not sustain itself.
Ofcourse KMnO4 with an explosive will be able to detonate. With a negative OB explosive you'll even improve performance. But you can't use KMnO4 on it's own as an
explosive filler.

Is NH4NO3 not an oxidizer? I am not saying your wrong, no, no, no your probably 99.99999% right. Is it because NH4NO3 is made up of only gaseous elements and KMnO4/
KNO3 ect ect are made up of metals and gases?

NH4NO3 is an oxidizer too, but it is an exception as it contains fuel in the form of the ammoniumgroup which can be oxidized to nitrogen and water, which is a highly
exothermic process. Ammoniumpermanganate, if stable, would probably be able to detonate.
The fact that NH4NO3 forms only gaseous products contributes too, as gaseous products increase the reaction entropy significantly, making the process more favourable.
As you'll probably know, nature always strives to the highest entropy in all its processes.
piro June 27th, 2003, 04:40 PM

What about Ca(NO3)2?
Nobody seems to know if it can be detonated. I guess so becuase i read its not allowed on planes.
does any know? Nobody can seem to give a sure answer on this one.

Don't think so. Decomposition products are not all gasses and decomposition seems to be endothermic.
BTW, you could have figured that out if you read the posts above...
The reason why it's not allowed on planes is because it will make the explosive detectors go frenzy, because it's a nitrate compound. If it were allowed somebody could say
that it's just a bag of calciumnitrate while its ammoniumnitrate or a nitric acid ester.
zaibatsu June 28th, 2003, 09:35 AM

Calcium Nitrate mixes have been known to detonate, check ALENGOSVIG1's posts on this subject, I believe he tried mixes of CNSOY and possibly CNFO. Just do a search by
username and include calcium nitrate, that should bring something useful up.

Yes, but then we are again talking about an oxidizer/fuel mixture. That does not mean calciumnitrate will detonate on it's own.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Exploding Micro Balls?
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yt2095 June 29th, 2003, 10:56 AM

whilst doing my usual extraction of chems from shop bought fireworks i happened to notice some totaly insoluable (in boiling water) micro balls in my sludge.
they came out the payload in crackling effect rockets.
they`re about the size of a pinhole in paper.
rusty orange brown color, closer to brown tho.
and explode violently when heated (one ball will blow a cigarette apart!)
they are not hollow ecapsulating another chem and are tough little ba$ts to crack open.
they`re not hammer/hard place sensitive either.
that`s about all the physical data i can give :(
yes i have done a search here and on Dogpile, they either don`t know or i can`t word it sucinctly enough?
do any of you have any ideas as to what it is?
and another thing, when finely powdered, it won`t detonate, it seems to want to be a complete solid before it explodes?

Probably Pb3O4/Al, usual composition for crackling stars.
Behaves a bit like CuO/Al thermite.

So small balls, being just a kind of termite, could blow away a cigarette ? What is the size of your pinholes, yt2095 ?
mr.evil June 29th, 2003, 06:22 PM

sorry vulture, but i'll have to correct you.
Magnalium alloy is used in combination with Pb304 and Nitrocellose laquer to form (2mm is the best size) dragon eggs.
the safer alternative is to use Bismuthtrioxide instead of Leadtetraoxide.
the compositions burns that fast that it'll explode with a sharp crack.
somethimes they are loaded in big aeriall display shells, but than in little bags containing about 30microstars per baggie. (so it will result in a giant KRSSSSSSS )

Arthis, some thermites explode. it depends on how unreactive the metal whose oxide you use is aswell as how reactive the fuel is. CuO and Al explode for example.
IPN July 1st, 2003, 02:07 PM

Would it be safe to use Pb3O4 in something like flash because I dont have any chlorates :( and I really would like to do something else than explosives (In my dreams
of course) all the time..
mr.evil July 2nd, 2003, 07:52 AM

a_bab uses Pb304/Al as a bursting charge in his aerial shells.
i can imagine it should work fine in salutes, a bit toxic, but hey...:rolleyes: :p
yt2095 July 2nd, 2003, 08:04 AM

i`ve found when powdering these balls up (sounds sadistic) :D
to an airfloat fineness that it COULD be used in a flash type mix, but only as a percentage as it takes quite a bit of heat to initiate a reaction.
and even then it still wants to make a crackle type of effect.
perhaps just left whole and used as-is in a typical flash mix would look quite interesting as an effect. i`ll have to wait and see (Nov 5`th ish).
also, i should imagine, that since these little critters are sold comercialy and subject to all manor of laws etc.. that they`de have some sort of stabilising compound in the mix?
perhaps "homemade" would be more efficient than these shop bought things?
thnx for your replies so far all :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Mgo to Mg?
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Noxious June 30th, 2003, 01:39 PM

Is there a way to convert Mgo to Mg? Because I found Mgo.
Or is here so mebody who knows where i can ge t Mg.

have you read the rules?
i think not, o therwise you wouldn't have blatently disregarded them . do you know how they make Mg? try doing a little work
yourself and find out.
i'm m oving this tripe to the watercooler where it belongs....

W ATERCOOLER - USE IT!!!
Also yet another newbie who thinks they're too sly to give away their location, but then ask for sources applicable to them,
help s if we know what fucking country you're in!

he must think we're run by the governm ent and paid for by his taxes to expect everything handed to him . well actually we're a
private organisation and don't just dish answers out. if you want Mg from MgO h a v e a s e a r c h o n g o o g l e . d o n't be so fucking
lazy.

Question on first post, your fu t u r e d o e s n t l o o k g o o d h e r e , b u t i m f e e l i n g g o o d a n d b o r e d s o i ' m g o i n g t o t o s s a c o i n h e a d s i
resp ond tails i dont either way im sure you'll end up banned.Ah you get heads so i answer but then agian the Mods dont think
you deserve one so Goodbye.
EDIT:
W ell 3 posts in the tim e i wrote m ine and looked for a coin...
IPN June 30th, 2003, 02:24 PM

In fact this should work:
M g O + C --> Mg + CO
I t n e e d s g o o d h e a t i n g a n d p o ssibly an inert atm o s p h e r e .

i thought Mg was waaaaay too reactive to do it like that. i was thinking along the lines of Al extraction. m e l t t h e o x i d e a n d
electrolyse it.

True. C + MgO is going to cost shitloads of energy. Furtherm ore, it could very well be that it won't work because of:
2 M g O + 2C ----> Mg2C + CO 2
Although I haven't checked if this reaction occurs.
Electrolysis is still the most econom ical, practical and m o s t s a f e m e t h o d .
M g O can be reduced by Al though using high temperatu res, but NO T in solution.

Looks like you beat me to it whilst I was bugge ring about with the big font :)
Best m ethod for converting MgO to Mg woulld b e to put som e epsom salts into your Big-Fuck-O ff-Particle-CANNO N, bom bard
t h e M g O a n d then sweep up the Mg atom s into a jam jar.
IPN June 30th, 2003, 03:42 PM

I shouldn't think alwa ys in the ory..
Thanks for the correction!
I t s e e m s t h a t buying the Mg would be much m o r e e a s i e r .

Arn't there already se veral threads about this? I have studied the problem m y s e l f a n d I k n o w I h a v e t a l k e d a b o u t i t . M g O
should be converted to MgCl and electrolyzed in an inert environ ment, th at's how they do it industrially.
infact, would it not be e a s i e r t o m a k e M g ( N O 3 ) 2 a n d e l e c t r o l y s e t h a t ? i t s m e l t i n g p o i n t i s 8 9 * C a s o p p o s e d t o t h e m uch higher
m elting point of MgCl - 714*C . this would seem like the better option to me...
vulture July 1st, 2003, 06:58 AM

King spaz, I think 89C is the m elting point of th e hydrate, it will sim ply dehydrate at that tem perature IIRC. Furthermore,
reducing salts with an oxidizing anion isn't goin g to work since that will be reduced first. And m eltin g dry Mg (NO 3)2 would yield
M g O which is im possible to electrolyse because of it's very high m elting point.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Therm ite using only Aluminum
Oxide
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View Full Version : Thermite using only Aluminum Oxide

Ok. I am probably wrong, but here it g oes. When looking at the basic thermite re action (Iron Oxide and Alum inum ) T h e
alum i n u m b u r n s , a n d gains fuel fromt he oxygen in the Iron Oxide. SO Iw as wondering, since Iron itself does nto seem to be
very im portant to the reaction, can you do it with only Aluminum Oxide. I am s u r e t h i s h a s b e e n a s k e d b e f o r e , b u t I a m i n a
hurry, right n ow. Thank you fo r your time on the replies.
Controlphrea k
static_firefly June 30th, 2003, 11:28 PM

Im pretty sure that the Fe2o3 oxidises the Al to form al oxide and Fe. So no.
Nihilist July 1st, 2003, 12:02 AM

yea, therm ite is a reaction between a non-reactive metal oxide(usually Fe2O 3) and a reactive m etal like alum inum ,
m a g n e s i u m , zinc etc.. the iron does not like to give up it's oxygen so when it finally starts the reaction is incredibly exothermic.
vulture July 1st, 2003, 06:56 AM

the iron does not like to give up it's oxygen so when it finally starts the reaction is incredibly exoth erm ic.
That's a wrong explanation. The reduction from Fe2O3 to Fe is ENDOtherm ic, but the energy needed is delivered by the
o x i d ation of the alum inium which is highly exotherm ic.
How could thermite with Al2O3 alone work? No m etal can reduce it's own oxide.
Al2O 3 + 2Al <----> Al2O3 + 2Al
This is just a sim ple atom swap and th e reactio n enthalpy is zero. There's no stability to g ain or energy to loose!
controlphreak July 1st, 2003, 10:17 PM

:( K. I was ju st wondering, because I a m still having troubles getting m y h a n d s o n s o m e a l u m inum to be able to use. So I was
just wondering if that would work. Anyways, thanks for the explanation Vulture. I appreciate it!
controlphreak
jeffchem2000 July 2nd, 2003, 06:33 AM

This is how the reaction goes:
Fe2O3 + 2Al ---> Al2O3 + 2Fe
yt2095 July 2nd, 2003, 07:19 AM

Controlphrea k,
Al2O 3 won`t react on it`s own, but all of the S block, Most of the F block, and 2 or 3 of the D block elem ents would react to
m ake and Alu therm ite.
perhaps group 2 of the S block could even be used to create color effects as it reduces your alu ox ide :)
(tho i strongly suspect tem pra ture with some of the reactants wo uldn`t be sufficient enough to self sustain)
all the best :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > B e n z e n e D i a z o n i u m Chloride
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jeffchem2000 July 1st, 2003, 04:16 PM

I n a n o l d e x p l o s i v e s b o o k I h a v e , I t d e s c r i b e s t y p e s o f e x p l o s i v e s . U n d e r Non-ox idative Explosives it says:
" S o m e e p l o s i v e c o m p o u n d s , s u c h a s l e a d a z i d e ( P b N 6 ) a n d b e n z e n e d i a z o n i u m c h l o r i d e ( C 6 H 5 . N 2 .Cl) contain no oxygen at

all."
T h i s i s a l l t h e b o o k m entions it. So curiosity set in and I have done searches for benzene diazoniu m c h l o r i d e o n t h e n e t a n d
this forum. T he net just brings up a load of stuff about dyes and this forum has nothing a s far as I can see. W hat I was
wondering was if anyone knows anything about it for exam ple if its a LE, HE and its sensitivity to heat, friction, shock, etc.
Mr Cool July 2nd, 2003, 06:04 AM

It m ust be a pretty la m e e x p l o s i v e , t o o l i t t l e g a s a n d n o o x y g e n . . .
No doubt it is sensitive to heat, although heat m a y n o t d e t o n a t e i t e a s i l y . D i a z o n i u m c o m p o u n d s l i k e t h i s a r e m a d e a n d u s e d
belo w 5*C to stop them from decom p o s i n g .
Of a ll the tim es that I've used this com pound in school, nothing was ever m entioned about it being an explosive. Just the fact
that it could decom pose if it wasn't in an ice-ba th.
jeffchem2000 July 2nd, 2003, 06:28 AM

Thats what I thought but then it was under non-oxidative explosives so I thought the m olecule m ust just "fall apart". So I
s u p o s e i t c o u l d b e a n explosive if it decom p o s e d f a s t e n o u g h b u t i t i s m o r e l i k e l y t o d e c o m p o s e b e f o r e i t c o u l d b e d e t o n a t e d.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > My website
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Hi everyone. I've been creating a site over the last few days. The URL is http://angry_jack.tripod.com
I have 2 favours to ask. Could you click the link and see if it loads, as some people I know say it won't but others say it does, and take a sec to inform me of your result.
Second, if you get there, tell me w hat you think. I've only got the AP synth done right now but im working on the same kind of page for numerous HEs. Thanks.

Personally, its not bad. (the link does work) How ever, you may w ant to change the color scheme some. The blue on black kinda gives a depressing apeal. Try something a little
more vibrant, and a textured design to the background.
Also, loose the disclaimer. They dont really have any purpose. If the feds want to bust you, they'll bust you. No disclaimer is going to stop them.
THErAPIST July 10th, 2003, 05:35 AM

First off I'd like to say that I like your pics, and I have ganked a couple for the forum vid. I have a question about your AP synth though...
In your synth you said to use table salt to neutralize your AP.. last time I checked though table salt w as NaCl or sodium chloride. Shouldn't you be using NaCO2 or sodium
bicarbonate AKA "baking soda"? Sodium bicarb is a base while I don't think that sodium chloride is.
Second, I don't think that it w ould be a good idea to dry your AP off w ith a hair dryer... I don't know about your hair dryer but mine gets pretty damn hot. Judging by anthony's
AP accident pics he had the pile of AP go off on top of his desk, simply because of the heat from a desk lamp w hich would be pretty much the same as a hair dryer. So you see
how thats probably not the safest thing to do.
http://ww w.i-was-bored.8m.com/anthony1.jpg
(copy and paste link into your browser)
Someone correct me if NaCl is a base though...
Great site so far though.

Here (http://w ww.geocities.com/blindreeper_chemistry/) is my website. I will try and get AP synth pics up soon but it's hard not ow ning a camera and having to borrow it
:rolleyes:
kingspaz July 10th, 2003, 07:19 AM

NaCl is not a base at all. it is therefore utterly useless to neutralise AP. also hair dryers get waaaaay too hot to dry AP safely. if you look in one of the AP threads somebody has
noted how long it takes AP to sublimate at various temperatures. at the temperature of a hairdryer you'll likely lose an appreciable quantity. also if there are any large crystals in
your AP batch just by chance then as the temperature changes under the hairdryer the cyrstals w ill expand possibly fracturing violently triggering detonation.
Sparky July 10th, 2003, 11:59 AM

I agree with the above posts about changing the color scheme or at least making it easier to read in some w ay. I just caught one mistake on the HMTD page:
" Just like AP, it evaporates, but not as fast. Still, due to this volatility, it is unsafe to store HMTD in containers w ith lids that create friction w hen removed. "
Since the substance is going straight from a solid to gas it is not called evaporation but rather sublimation.
One more thing, just general w eb design. If someone links to one of your pages, say the AP one or finds it on a search engine (ie don't get to it from your main page) then they
have no link to get back to your main page and so can't get their if they don't know enough to modify the URL. Therefore usually you should have a link back to the home page
on each of your pages. It also makes your pages look more finished if you have something on the bottom. Personally I, twice, found myself trying to scroll dow n more after
looking at the last picture :).
Blindreeper, I really like your still (not to mention the rest of your site)! Is the glas shaping easy or does it take a lot of practice - could you tell us more about it (torch,
equipment used etc...)?

I was thinking the same about the base thing. Well, its easily changed. You take the hairdryer off the AP before it is completely dry. While still damp, it doesnt even get warm.
So i must disagree there.
Coluor scheme thing.... Well, i want to get the site made first then ill worry about the aesthetics of it. Thanks for the input.
As for you using my pics, thats fine. All I ask is that you say where they came from and link to my site if you use them on your site. Just general fair play.
*Edit. HMTD synth page now underway.
Bryan July 10th, 2003, 01:17 PM

It looks good so far, as Sparky said, add links!
Just so you all know, here's My Website (http://members.tripod.com/budgetpyro/index.htm) It's heavily under construction, apparently it's a bit hard to navagate through, I
haven't had any problems though...
EP July 10th, 2003, 03:54 PM

I would suggest anyone using Tripod to find a different host, even geocities. Tripod just has so many fucking popups it's going to piss of everyone...

Sparky I have made a thread (http://www .roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2210) about construction of such a device :p
Well I tried distilling some water last night to see how it holds up. And it held up good nothing broke which is always good and I started with 200ml tap water and w as left with
150ml D w ater. There was steam coming off at the end which was bad and so I conclude I have to make one w ith a proper cooler. And when I am currently using for a
condenser will be my new vigurex column :D

I've got a nice HMTD yeild if uploaded if anyone cares.
Bryan July 11th, 2003, 01:53 PM

Yeah, that is a nice yeild, but I still can't get over the McDonalds toy...

Does anybody know w hat happened to Geocities? At www .geocities.com , all it is is a search engine and directory thing. I can find no way to log into my account at all. Even by
logging in at yahoo, I can still not get to my account. :mad:
grammarless July 11th, 2003, 03:03 PM

I didn't have a problem signing in to my acount. Anyw ays here is my website http://ww w.geocities.com/grammarless/Home.html
THErAPIST July 11th, 2003, 09:33 PM

I have looked at the sites and I w ould like to say that I htink that they are ALL nice enough sites. I'd also like to say that the amount of pics outnumbers the number of vids on
my HD 2:1 :p
GibboNet July 12th, 2003, 02:46 AM

The sites I just looked at are pretty simple HTML w ith images, so you should all head over to Brinkster (http://www .brinkster.com) to get a free site, but w ithout the banners
and popups.
There ar elots of free sites out there, geocities, tripod and angelfire are some of the w orst. I'll give you more information if you need help finding a host. I can also help with any
HTML type issue. Just email me, I'm also on MSN. I'd like to help people publish these sort of sites...
They're all pretty ok sites though, so keep them going, I look forward to seeing more content.
frogfot July 12th, 2003, 05:16 AM

I had brinkster account for about a year or something, in my opinion the page is very slow and very often don't work... (maby thats why it says "powered by Microsoft" lol)
Never had such problems with geocities.. but maby brinkster have better payed service..
Oh, and brinkster have only 0,5GB data transfer, geocites have 3GB (I relly don't wanna leave geocities, i had that account for about 4 years)
BrAiNFeVeR July 12th, 2003, 06:11 AM

I never had a problem with geocities either, exept for the shitty bandwidth limits ...
If you link a short-url to them, the adds on the pages even dissappear. I suspect you get a shorturl pop-up then, but I have a built in popupkiller in mozilla (ww w.mozilla.org ; I
recommend it) so I really don't care ...
Going back to free providers, bandwidth, together with disk space are the most important issues. 0-catch may have more diskspace, but a really lousy bandwidth ...
I suspect the same with many other providers, since hard disks are cheap these days.
DBSP July 12th, 2003, 06:12 PM

I must say that you definately should remove the hairdryer part from your site. The thing is that YOU may take the dryer off the AP in time but some other stupid fucks may
not. Don't give people bad ideas unless you really have to.
If it would have been RDX or PETN you w ere drying it wouldn't mind but not AP w ith it's w eek bonds.

Yeah OK. You have a point. It shall be changed.

Also on geocities, by adding an open(don't put a </xml>) <xml> tag to the bottom of your page, all of the ads will dissapear. How ever if they catch you, then they will
probably shut your site down.

Some nice pics for you to enjoy
http://angry_jack.tripod.com/deadtree.html
THErAPIST July 14th, 2003, 08:59 PM

It'll probably take some time to load if youre on a dialup like me, but click on the link if ya w ant. I just wanted to include my tree pics too.
Click here (http://i-was-bored.8m.com/tree.html)
Rat Bastard July 14th, 2003, 09:22 PM

Very nice pics THErAPIST. I have searched for info on ANNC and got nothing on manufacture/ratios. Could you possibly enlighten me about your ANNC?
THErAPIST July 15th, 2003, 08:28 AM

ANNC is just another one of the weird things I've come up with while I was bored. I had some AN powder and some NC laquer left over one day so I decided to make AN putty
for something to do (I changed my mind w hile making it and I decided to make it a pow der). I threw a little AN in a bow l and then poured NC laquer on it and started stirring it
with a stirring rod and adding small amounts of AN until there were no clumps left and until there was no longer any sticky lumps of NC left. After it was mixed it was left setting
around for a couple hours to evaporate off any acetone that w as still there. After it w as dry it was crushed up w ith a pestle and mortar until it was about as fine as baking flour.
The NC coating on the AN keeps w ater away so it's not quite as hygroscopic and it's easier to detonate than straight AN.
Hope that helps a little.
Efraim_barkbit July 15th, 2003, 06:21 PM

poor trees... :D
It is amazig w hat a little bit of HE can do once inside trees.

I do not have a cordless drill, so my tree blasting has been limited to 40 cm pices of them, and not to forget, a stump w ith a hole in the middle versus 280g ANNM...
on the opposite, trees are very though if the explosives are put on the outside, and there is no hole or something in it. 200g ANNM only blew aw ay the outer layer (what is this
called in english:rolleyes: ) when placed on the ground against one.
BTW Sonny Jim, Nice site.

Ive always suspected that sick bastard Ronald McDonald using cows for more than hamburgers:D

The outer layer of a tree is called bark.

Thanks Efraim_barkbit! I can vouch for w hat you said about explosives being much more pow erful inside an object. If you saw my AP page where 20g utterly destroyed a log?
Well a similar 20g charge w as placed on the outside of a tree a while back and only the bark and a small bit of the inner wood w as damaged.
Hah, that McDonalds toy is quite resiliant actually. I blew it across a nearby field w ith about 5g of HMTD I had lying about, but apart from a little blackening, it survived! If only
McDonlads put such quality into their food!
Never mind though, I havn't forgotten about that particular toy, and McDonalds seem to be always inventing new look give aways to feed my addiction to their destruction...
fasa July 31st, 2003, 10:42 AM

i tried making your silicon fuse with KNO3 + sugar...but had no success...i tried many times, i made sure i did everything just like you said, but it just didn't burn... or
sometimes it would burn and go out instantly... any ideas on what i did wrong?
blindreeper July 31st, 2003, 10:15 PM

I think your fuse didn't work because the silicone fuse is supposed to be KMnO4 and sulfur our KClO3 and sugar (frogfots page has it all)
Cyclonite August 1st, 2003, 08:05 AM

Also I would recommend that you suggest glass to stir and not plastic for the AP Synth.
Sonny Jim August 4th, 2003, 09:19 PM

The silicone fuses burn better with finer fuel, obviously.
S is better than sucrose, but sucrose still works for me. Try using less silicone or increase the percentage oxidiser.
The fuses are more reliable w hen thick too, as you get more of a reaction going that has a better chance of sustaining itself.
Why glass not plastic?
0EZ0 August 4th, 2003, 09:38 PM

Acetone is a strong solvent. Many plastics soften or even dissolve in acetone. Obviously this is not a good thing in an AP synth as you can get unknown side reactions that could
have a detrimental effect on the stability of the finished AP (as if it weren't unstable enough already:p). Stick w ith glass as it does not react with any of the precursors in an AP
synth.
frogfot August 14th, 2003, 04:27 PM

Since w e w ere talking about different web providers here I must ask if anybody knows any info about:
http://home.myw ay.com/ (it's told to be 63% faster than yahoo + no banners)
I'm thinking about storage space/monthly data transfer.. searched their site for 1h but couldn't find this basic info.. :confused:

A friend of mine just became an admin at vectec, so anyone who wants to set up there, if you get in touch w ith me, I can ensure you immunity from deletion.
On another note, I taped a 50g AP charge I did today for a bit of fun. The page where the video is is here:
http://vectec.net/angryjack/file.html
DBSP August 20th, 2003, 02:39 AM

Nice to see someon else making vids, to bad there w asn't any sound. That reminds me of the fact that I need to get myself a better ginder.
Why don't you tape the amputation of a tree while your at it as well?
Due to my extreme lack of time this time of year (roebuck hunting in full progress+ work +school start) my spare time is very limited but as soon as I get some time left over I
will get onto some of the things I've said I'd try.
Sonny Jim August 20th, 2003, 07:38 AM

Trees are always good. I have it on the 'to do' list. I know it's a tad gay about there being no sound, but all I have access to is a digicam w ith video function :(
I'm always on the look out for a better option though. Looking forward to your new stuff when it arrives.
PS, if you look to the right hand side of the video, after the shockwave hits the camera, you can see one of the previously decapitated trees :D

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > precursors molecular images for megalomania's site
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inFinie July 9th, 2003, 04:27 PM

Hi megalomania. I think you haven't got anytime for drawing images of precursors in your site which says 'unknown'. I drew them in ISIS skc format and converted to gif after
dloading Chemoffice Ultra 2004. If you are interested let me know. Here is the list:
ethylene dichloride.gif
n-propanol.gif
oxalic acid.gif
n-hexane.gif
1-nitropropane.gif
N,N-dimethylformamide.gif
pyridine.gif
piperidine.gif
sulfolane.gif
xylene.gif
paraldehyde.gif
trifluoroacetic anhydride.gif
2,3-diazido-1,4-butanediol.gif
2-nitro-2-(m-nitrophenyl)-propanediol-1,3.gif
1,3-dichloro-2,4,6-trinitrobenzene.gif
2-chloro-1,3,5-trinitro benzene.gif
2-methyl-2-nitro-(3',5'-dinitrophenyl)-propanediol-1,3.gif
3,3-diazido-2,4-pentane diol.gif
3-methoxy-2,2',4,4',6,6'-hexanitrobiphenyl.gif
IPN July 9th, 2003, 05:15 PM

I had nothing to do so I made few more:
2,4-dinitrophenetole (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/2,4-dinitrophenetole%20.gif)
ammonium ferrous sulfate (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/ammonium%20ferrous%20sulfate.gif)
aniline hydrochloride (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/aniline%20hydrochloride.gif)
hydroquinone (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/hydroquinone%20.gif)
m-dinitrobenzene (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/m-dinitrobenzene%20.gif)
nitroallyl acetate (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/nitroallyl%20acetate.gif)
nitrosyl tetrafluoroborate (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/nitrosyl%20tetrafluoroborate.gif)
perchloryl fluoride (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/perchloryl%20fluoride.gif)
picryl chloride (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/picryl%20chloride.gif)
potassium dinitroethanol (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/potassium%20dinitroethanol.gif)
potassium hypophosphite (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/potassium%20hypophosphite.gif)
silicic acid (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/silicic%20acid.gif)
trinitro-m-anisidine (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/trinitro-m-anisidine.gif)
trinitro-m-phenetidine (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/trinitro-m-phenetidine.gif)
trivinyl isocyanurate (http://koti.mbnet.fi/otto2000/trivinyl%20isocyanurate.gif)
Btw. InFinie, I'm not trying to rip your idea, I just like to help. (And maybe one day we all will be able to see the complete Megalomania Controversial Chem Lab :) )
inFinie July 10th, 2003, 03:35 AM

You are not ripping my idea you are helping.
That is the thing i want most. The complete Lab.
IPN July 10th, 2003, 02:56 PM

Ok. I think I will start doing synthesis for some of the precursors.
I hope Mega will notice this thread..
zeocrash July 10th, 2003, 06:03 PM

ok here's the chems i've done
1-nitropropane
2-nitropropane
Carbon dioxide
CuSO4
dextrin
dicyanodiamide
dimethylformamide
ethylene dichloride
hydrogen
hydroquinone
iron
n-hexane
nitrogen
oxalic acid
oxygen
more to come soon

all are gif files and all are under 3kb
i'll get working on some synths as well.
megalomania July 12th, 2003, 04:23 PM

Im so happy, thanks everyone for the assistance :D If you could email me the files you guys have done so far I would appreciate it. I will try to update my site as soon
as I get this batch.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > useful for distiling nitric
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View Full Version : useful for distiling nitric
zeocrash July 19th, 20 03, 03:4 1 PM

i saw this exotic condenser on ebay an d i was wondering if it could be used to con centrate nitric acid.
h t t p : / / e b a y 3 . i p i x m e d ia.com / a b c / M 2 8 / _ E B A Y _ 1 0 7 0 3 0 9 7 2 0 0 9 8 1 8 f 8 d 1 d 7 5 7 8 5 7 2 2 b 9 b 6 / i - 1 . J P G
(the pic ain't mine so i dont know how large it is)
i was thinking of putting it ontop of a flask like a reflux column this would cause m ost of the water to condense on the inside
colum n and drop back down into the flask, the HNO3 would then go down and exit through the exit hole in the bottom. any
idea s
if anyone knows what this condenser is actually used for, please tell me.
o h y e a h a n d d o n t t r y a n d o u t b i d m e on this auction, or i'll be really really disgruntled.
Arthis July 20th, 20 03, 07:4 2 AM

I s a w o n e t h a t l o o k e d l i k e that a while a g o , o n a m a r k e t place, (you selling lots of old stuffs). I didn't b u y i t b e c a u s e 6 0
s e e m ed to be a little expensive (I already have a condenser).
How price is your auction ?
W ith that condenser you have a greeat cooling area, bu t you m ay need to do the distillation under vacuum.
This stuff is just like a starndard condenser, the shape is different but nothing m ore.
T h e s i z e o f t h e o n e I h a d s e e n w a s a b out 40 cm lenght.
ALENGOSVIG1 July 20th, 20 03, 02:3 3 PM

Its a friedrichs condenser. You dont need one for standard distillations. Just use a west or liebig. Friedrichs are usually used in
rotovaps i belive.
Theres no need for a fancy condensor when distilling HNO3. You just need a shitty 200mm liebig or west. Those HNO3 vapous
are easy to condense !

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Visco Fuse & Whiny Jews
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bonnsgeo July 28th, 2003, 07:28 AM

hello.
I d like to find a person who live in USA who could buy "visco fuse" for me and ship it to me in europe.
I could pay this person by Paypal.
i ask for that beause i dont find visco fuse in my country and american suplliers of visco fuse dont want to export their products !
Thank you.
vulture July 28th, 2003, 08:58 AM

Why do you think they won't export to europe? Because US customs will intercept it! Same goes for the package from your american friend.
You can get visco fuse in Belgium quite easily. Email me.
bonnsgeo July 28th, 2003, 11:51 AM

ok thx. Read your e-mails please.
fasa July 28th, 2003, 11:58 AM

does anyone know where i can get visco fuse in Israel???
i have been looking for ever and i can't find it...there aren't pyrotechnic stores or anything here, so its impossible.
does anyone know how i can make them? or make a good fuse? for things like salutes (M-80s and such...)???
thanks....
bonnsgeo July 28th, 2003, 12:29 PM

lol. i dont know.
Why do u want a fuse when u can obtain kalashnikov or grenades everywhere in Israel :) .
vir sapit qui pauca loquitur July 28th, 2003, 01:15 PM

A word to the wise, materials like that will attract a fair bit of attention, especially in israel !
been there, got the t-shirt and that's one reason that i didn't visit the forum while on my extended stay in israel.
fasa July 28th, 2003, 01:45 PM

i know they would....but i still want to do it...
can anyone tell me how to make a visco fuse or something similar....or where to get one?!?
static_firefly July 29th, 2003, 03:28 AM

because i dont have visco i lay a trail of kno3/sugar or BP on some cling wrap and roll it up. Then i carefully strech it out (to almost twice the size) then i wrap it up again in
cling wrap. This ends up about the thinkness of a sparkler and will burn underwater. Since i dont think you have kno3 you could try powdered matchheads or something.
fasa July 29th, 2003, 08:25 AM

yeah i have 25 kg KNO3 ;)
thanks a lot for the idea!
what i used to do is use tape and put KNO3 + sugar, and wrap it once...
but...
whats a cling wrap ? do you mean that sticky see-thru stuff???
Arkangel July 29th, 2003, 12:36 PM

1. The problem isn't US customs, it's either the postal service (shipping visco in an unmarked jiffybag is illegal, they probably won't ship it if you mark it either) or customs in
the destination country (the import may be prohibited)
So, if you do try this, split your stuff and have it sent separately. Also, have some fake id when you go to the post office with your packages - also don't send it from your local
post office
2. Black match/fuse is NOT hard to make and there is a HUGE amount of information out there on how. Fasa, don't just ask people here for help. Yes it's a forum and yes this
is the watercooler, but ALL the questions you've asked so far are out there if you bother to look. You've only been a pyro two and a half weeks iirc, you don't have an
illustrious career ahead of you if you just want people to GIVE you the answers
fasa July 31st, 2003, 06:04 AM

i wanted to know if i can use black match for salutes, or things like coffee creamer fire balls...
again, I'm sorry for being lame and not doing it myself, but my sources are extremely limited...and my budget is low...
Arkangel July 31st, 2003, 05:46 PM

I'm sorry for being lame and not doing it myself, but my sources are extremely limited...and my budget is low...
Dude, you have the INTERNET at your disposal, what are you talking about? There is an anser to every question you've asked somewhere if you bother to look. EVERYONE
here does what they do on a small budget.
I'm beginning to think that your lameness is some kind of a front, and it worries me, especially coming from where you do:mad:
fasa July 31st, 2003, 06:11 PM

:)
zeocrash July 31st, 2003, 06:45 PM

no, arkangel is no racist. But you must expect to get some suspision, i mean israel is like the suicide bombing capital of the world, for all we know you could be planning to
blow yourself up in a bus full of school kids.
if you survive this, would you please think about our statement's before accusing us of racism for questioning why a man in the world's terrorist hotspot want's to build bombs.
i'm sorry but people calling the racism card whenever you mistreat them pises me of, no one gives a crap if you're jewish, we'd still criticise your posts if you were white, black
asian or some other race.
When we started our pyro hobby most of us didn't know very much, but we actually bothered to search the forum to find answers rather than demanding the current members
run around and teach us everything
i'm sure NBK will be more than happy to answer your question :)
vir sapit qui pauca loquitur July 31st, 2003, 07:13 PM

Great, another cretin that uses 'racism' as a blanket statement.
first, Arkangel is a long standing member of this community, so starting to slag him off is a mistake, he's a good guy and i'd defend him in this matter if needs be!
second, you link racism along with anti-semitism..... how?

racism is against the colour of the skin and anti-semitism is against the RELIGION
got that straight?
THEN when you re-read Arkangels statement without the blinkers of the 'victim' of 'racism'
:rolleyes: you might be able to see that he was commenting on where you are, a country not well known for it's restraint in the use of explosive material to settle differences.
I think that i would be backed up here by most people if i was to say that we don't wish to be responsible for something going wrong, and providing visco' to someone who f's
and blind's at the first mention of their integrity being questioned doesn't seem a good idea.
i'm going to look forward to what NBK has to say, if he's in a bad mood then this will be fun.

look...if I was a terrorist.... do you think i would bother to mention I'm from Israel? [Do you think we did not already know? ~ MrC]
I don't make bombs, make some firecrackers, smoke bombs and such...but no more.... chemistry interests me, and I have no intention of hurting anybody...
I think it's wrong that Arkangel said what he said...

"I'm beginning to think that your lameness is some kind of a front, and it worries me, especially coming from where you do" - he is saying that I'm stupid, and so are all the
people from where i come from....
and I asked the question after looking.... I didn't demand anything from anybody...
I tried using a blackmatch for a salute, but it didn't work... I asked if it worked for anyone.... is that a good reason to insult me of being lame and insulting all other Jewish \
Israeli people???
racism ins't necessecerally (sp) for skin, its against a "race" of people....
I'm sorry if I got really pissed off, but after all, I've met so many people who hate me \ Jewish people just because of who we are.... and without any reason....
I'd hate to think there's someone like that in the forum... (I'm sure there are a few...)
FASA

judaism is not a race. that's my first reaction.
then i have to say that all of your questions have been asked before and answered, just looking up in the correct forum would sort out any questions you might have on the
manufacture of such items.
Also you say that you make fire-crackers etc, well how can we verify this? If i was to say to you that i'm a chemistry professor of some university would you believe me? Not
without proof, and because of what we deal in the very process of verifying who you are is never going to happen. Bearing that in mind think about why we are weary to
provide answers to questions that have been asked before.
"I think it's wrong that Arkangel said what he said..."
Well, we need to be on our guard against people who wish to deprive us of our liberty due to our hobbies, and as such police/internal security forces must be actively weeded
out from our numbers, and your line of questioning leads us to jump to conclusions.
"he is saying that I'm stupid, and so are all the people from where i come from...."
I can't for the life of me see where you read this, what version of IE are you using :rolleyes:
WHEN he said that you seemed to put on a 'front' he was saying that you were actively decieving us by imitation a idiot, NOT that you are one.
FRONT;
external and often feigned appearance especially in the face of danger or adversity (merriam-webster dictionary)
and if someone was to say they were from lebanon/ gaza strip would YOU think our suspicion to be unfounded ?
Location is everything.

if you put it that way....
how can i know you aren't a terrorist??? :p
for all I know you could be lying about who you are and where you are from....
you can't prove it....
for all you care i could sign up under a different name and change my location tab.....
its really not that hard....

you don't know anything about me, which is the point.
BUT i'm not the one asking about materials to assemble an IED in a hostile location am i? ;)
I don't know what the rules about multiple accounts are, but nothing to my knowledge stops that. But lack of searching will follow you around and a mod only has to check
your ISP No. if you start angering them.
in short new members are welcome but searching on any question you have means we all get along :D
zeocrash August 1st, 2003, 04:37 AM

if you put it that way....
how can i know you aren't a terrorist???
well quite simply you dont, but the thing is we have something you want, so we dont give a crap whether you think we're terrorist's at all
you seem to have failed to notice that your location tab has little to do with our behavior towards you. our problem is you behavior and innability to search. if you had learnt
how to search and learnt some respect, it's not likely that your location would have been called into question
the forum does have rules about multiple accounts i belive, but what does it matter, when NBK slaps you with an IP ban it makes no difference how many accounts you have,
none of them will work
yt2095 August 1st, 2003, 05:20 AM

Hmmm.. had I have known all this was going down in here, I`de have been less forthcoming in spoonfeeding him info in the sulpherless BP thread.
Fasa, you`re on your own now! and persona non grata as far as I`m concerned.
Guilt by association with lamers.... not THIS time!

I wouldn't bother but its the water cooler. Fasa you really should take a look at the edicate used by other members and take some initiative to learn. Dont be so fast to use
pull the bullshit racist flag if your not sure entirely what is ment. I really dont see how this guy could even be viewed as a threat, making fuze..... come on. I seriously doubt
any terrorist would have trouble obtaining fuze and the explosives to use them.
Hmm on another note of explosives availability, here in Iraq there are Iraqi ASPs (Ammo Supply Points) that are compleatly unguarded with full up guided missiles, bombs,
fuzes and rockets. Some are kickouts from the bombings but most are in good condition for the taking, I wish I had a way to take some and put them to good use by my own
accord.:D
Arkangel August 3rd, 2003, 04:43 PM

Fasa, I don't know if you still have access to the forum, but here's a few things. Most of what the guys have been saying up to now has been bang on, thanks for backing me
up folks.
But, I have Jewish (Argentine and Israeli) friends as well as Palestinian friends. I've actually given money to a pressure group in the region - have you heard of Yesh Gvul? I
am very interested in what happens between your peoples and believe that you CAN be reconciled. It takes a more mature attitude than yours for that to be possible though.
Something likethis, (http://www.marchforjustice.com/Becausewearejews.php)
The point I was making was that I was suspicious of your motives, and believed that you were pretending you were something you were not, to entrap, deceive or otherwise
fuck us over.
Now I can see that you're just an idiot.
A whining, self-pitying, xenophobic, bitter, moron of an idiot, but an idiot nonetheless.
Arkangel August 3rd, 2003, 09:14 PM

My last post was going to be my final word on this, but I made the mistake of re-reading some of the effluent that you've produced, and I think I ought to put you straight.
I love Jewish people (but I couldn't eat a whole one, as the joke used to go - substitute Jew/nigger/fag/chink/raghead as required) for a number of reasons - their sense of
fun, their loyalty to their families and their faith, their business ability, the kibbutzim spirit, their aggression and a whole load of other things. I also admire Israel (and if you're
interested you can see where I've written ALL of this before on the forum) for having carved it's place in a hostile world. The creation and continued existence of your country is
nothing less than miraculous.
But now, it's prosperity and security continue to be threatened, not by Arafat and the Palestinians, but by idiots and bigots just like yourself. Now is the time when you should
be enjoying a mutually prosperous peace with your neighbours, but instead, the hatred continues.
There are two types of people that really threaten Israel from within, and I'm going to describe them both.
First, you have people like Sharon, Netanyahu and the thankfully now dead Zeevi. Men who grew up fighting to create your nation, but who now have so much blood on their
hands and hatred in their hearts that they have no idea when to stop, when to find a common thread. All they want to do is bully anyone who gets in their way. These suited
Zionist extremists are leading you toward the mirage of a greater Judea, or safe, happy life. Sharon, the span of your lifetime before you were born (insect that you are), was
Minister for Agriculture and swore that the settlements would continue. Thirty years on he's still as determined. These lunatics, relics from the Stern Gang and all it's atrocities
are leading you ahead, but to where, and who do they use for their dirty work?
Oh yes..........you're on your way to another fifty years of picking up bits of body from the bus bombings, and the ones helping the old guys along are the ignorant, arrogant,
blinkered and bigoted people like you're going to turn into. Some years ago, I spent time travelling round South America. I met all sorts of folks, and I kept bumping into young
Israelis, fresh out of their service with the IDF, wanting to see the world. To A FAULT they were the most insular, rude, dirty, ignorant travellers on the continent. I tried to be
friendly and I was snubbed, I got their shit all over my feet on the single track Inca trail, I watched them abusing (physically an verbally) local people wherever they were and
I hated them. Perhaps it's because you grow up being told that everyone hates you, you're just expecting to be hated, and that becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Your attitude
becomes defensive and you start to hate people before you've even met them. Calling ME racist is the most absurd thing I've heard. People here who know me will tell you
how wrong you are, and it makes you look like.......an idiot.
And that's what's so dangerous about all this "poor me" and "criticising anything done by a Jewish person is anti-semitic" bullshit.
You make some retarded posts here, I gently tell you, and before I know it you're calling me racist.:mad:
Well fuck you, runt. You're a disgrace to Judaism, and you're a disgrace to humanity, just like all the other self pitying cunts that you find within every race, every country and
every religion.
Thank fuck I know better than to believe that everyone in your country is like you
bonnsgeo August 16th, 2003, 04:14 PM

hmmm
somebody know a "visco" fuse retailer in Germany, UK or italy ?
if yes, contact me by e-mail if it is possible.

bonnsgeo@yahoo.fr
thx
Mr Cool August 16th, 2003, 05:27 PM

If yes, post it for all!
nbk2000 August 17th, 2003, 12:34 AM
I'm sorry if I got really pissed off, but after all, I've met so many people who hate me \ Jewish people just because of who we are.... and without any reason....
I'd hate to think there's someone like that in the forum... (I'm sure there are a few...)
I think I could name at least one person...;) :D
But seriously, this is why I (and so many other whites) hate the Jews, because of their "victim" attitude. If you act like prey, even dangerous prey, don't be surprised when
you get eaten!
"Oi vay! Dos' vilthy Forumites vouldn't tell me how to make vee bombz! Those anti-semite racist goiem!"
Whaaa! Definitely a moron, likely a raghead, probably a jihadeen, and possibly an instigator. Good thing "The Man" doesn't have spies with better manners, otherwise we
might be riddled with them! :p
This whole thread is what happens when I don't read every thread, every day. :(

I have found 3 sources of "Bickford" fuse in France. Maybe you know ? Its the most used fuse in the world.... ( i did nt know the name 2 weeks ago :rolleyes: ) and its better
than Visco (a pyrotechnician said it to me: "Visco is for gays, Bickford is for men" :D ).
So if you are in Europe (uk,italy,germany,belgium...) i can probably help you...(for litlle quantities, and if a few persons ask it)
bye
PS: use PgP if you want to order some fuse, and if you give me your adress).
a_bab August 20th, 2003, 03:53 PM

How expensive is it ?
The problem is that is very very thick (around 6 -8 mm in diam. or so); plus it should be expensive.

i pay 19 euros for 10 meters of bickford fuse (its 6 mm thick)
and i must add shipping charges !
yes its expensive...

:(
Anthony August 21st, 2003, 01:53 PM

If it is what I think it is (blasting fuse) then that price isn't really that bad!
Trinitrotoluene August 23rd, 2003, 05:38 PM

I think it is possable if your from another country to get it off of ebay. There is one person on the list who is selling visco. I'm not too sure about international shipping though.
Most likely it will get intercepted by U.S customs agents. If one is very desprite then its worth a try. Just go on ebay type "visco fuse" in the search botton.
PasstheDutch September 16th, 2003, 06:55 PM

bonnsgeo : does the company ship to other countries in europe? 19 euri is very cheap for 10 meters, sure as hell beats making fuse myself. In the Netherlands its impossible to
get this kind of things, the best I can get is the green fuse I pull out of legal fireworks and they're only 4cms long :(
what's the burnrate for this bickford fuse?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Films and songs...
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View Full Version : Films and songs...
Mr Cool July 28th, 2003, 03:00 PM

OK, this is going to be difficult. The idea of this thread, hopefully, is to get people to name one film and one song, that is
their personal favourite. Also, if you can, tell us why you think it's so good, or if you like, discuss why you don't agree with
other people's choices. But do it in a non-offending way, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Try to limit yourself to just one of each, it'll be more interesting that way. Also I'm working on my film collection, I thought I'd
try and get some inspiration.
If that turns out to be too hard (it IS fucking hard if you really try to think of your absolute favourite), then just use this thread
for whatever you want, except anything relating to cheese.
OK, I'll have a go...
Film: Donnie Darko. I saw this a few months ago. It's very weird, but I really liked it for some reason. At the moment I can't
think of a film which I thought was better, although I might revise my choice if I do think of one... I thought the music for it
was well chosen, it was filmed well with interesting camera positions, and I like weird stuff. I can't explain it any more precisely
than that.
Song: Err, fuck knows. This is really hard because everyone's heard so many songs that it's almost impossible to know which is
your favourite. Same with films, but less so. For me it depends on what mood I'm in etc. I'll limit myself to one of the 600ish
songs I have on my computer, just because I can look at them now and compare them easily...
Right, today my choice is Paint It Black by the Rolling Stones. If I made my choice tomorrow it'd probably be different, but
that's the kind of mood I'm in right now.
So, what about you?
zaibatsu July 28th, 2003, 03:30 PM

Fav song - Most likely Rod D - Clubbed to Death, or Air - Sexy Boy. Yes, both semi-pop/dance, but I do think they are very
good.
rooster July 28th, 2003, 04:42 PM

Movie : Blood In Blood Out (bound by honour). Awesome latino-gangster/jail-movie.
As for song, right now Rammstein makes a lot of good hard music. Maybe the song "Ich will". Fuckin awesome!
zeocrash July 28th, 2003, 06:46 PM

Movie: battle royale (awsome japanese film)
music: ace of spades - motorhead

Ah some many things to choose from for right now I choose enemy at the gates for the movie and System of a Downs : chop
suey, And I think I just found the perfect NBK2000 theme song:
Rob Zombie: Super Beast
Sparky July 28th, 2003, 07:04 PM

Film:
There are a couple movies that tend to jostle for favorite in my mind. But if I have to choose just one, I pick The Boondock
Saints. The thing I liked best about it is how interesting the main characters are. They are intense, mysterious, capable and
have a good sense of humor. I like it when there are capable people in a movie (good guy or bad guy) since I hate watching
people bungle things up on screen. Also it's got an aura of coolness which is almost as good as The Matrix. I could have done
without the gay police officer though. He annoys me sometimes - I think maybe they should have found some other way to
make him interesting. Another thing I like about the movie is that in it the public is divided about what the saints are doing.
Some think it's good, some think it's bad. This makes the movie more realistic and hence interesting. I could go on and on
but I won't. Better just to see it!

Song: FTN by golfinger.
Super beast is a crazy song so is rob zombie isn't he like a 55 year old devil worshiper lol
Tuatara July 29th, 2003, 05:02 AM

Film: Amelie, as I mentioned in another thread.
Song: Eeech! tough to pick an all time fav. I love so much of the 80's music (dear, dear, showing my age now, eh?)
So "Six months in a leaky boat" - Split Enz : catchy homegrown tune,

"Vienna" - Ultra Vox, "Life's what you make it" -Talk Talk : love that really big, epic sound, and "Coming Home"- Blue Amazon
: the girl has such a beautiful voice.
frogfot July 29th, 2003, 05:18 AM
I'm not a fan of movies but I got slightly more than 2000 mp3s on the comp :) ..duh, someone probably got more! rrr :( I've
always concidered "Nirvana - Heart shaped box" to be my favourite. But Mr.Cool is right, it depends on the mood, which song
you want to hear today.
Btw, Tuatara, I bet you will like soundtrack from grease "You're the one that I want", this song is great!! (guessing on 70's?)
yt2095 July 29th, 2003, 07:06 AM

Film : Brazil
Song: Bob the Builder :D
seriously, Jeff Waynes "War of The Worlds"
metal dragon July 29th, 2003, 07:46 AM

Film: usual suspects: it was a very deceiving movie. It had a boring start but made up with a excellent and twisting ending.
Song: holy grail: I just love the music no specific reason just I like it
Flake2m July 29th, 2003, 08:49 AM

Some songs
Red Tape by Agent Provocoteur
Eye of the Tiger by Survivor
Blink 182 is overall pretty good
Marilyn Manson is also quite good
Movies
I liked "The Rock"
T3
Ned Kelly is pretty good too
There are some other movies I have seen but cant think atm that really did change the way I looked at some issues in the
world
knowledgehungry July 29th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Favorite song- Anti-heros- thats right or maybe Oxymoron- bored and violent
Favorite movie- hmmm thats a tuffy i really dont like movies all that much, i enjoy watching them but no movies that i watch
over and over.
controlphreak July 29th, 2003, 11:42 AM

Favorite movie - Probably A beautiful mind. Because I mean, not only the emotion, but the thought that people would abuse a
genuis soo much, and the fact that he was a genius, just makes it a perfect movie all around
Favorite Song - Probably gunmen by Funker Vogt off their Machshine Zeit CD. They are a german metal/techno group that
gunmen is about how he was hunted so now he will go and hunt. A phrase perhaps.
"Now the race is on the run

I'm looking out for you
I'll catch you in the woods
And kill you if we meet.
Come on play the game
And fight for life
This is the game
Where I will survive"
controlphreak

Er.........Controlphreak, how do you feel the genius was abused in "A beauiful mind"?
True Romance - great acting by some of my favourite actors, great storyline, lots of violence and a happy ending!
Killing in the name of - Rage Against The Machine. JUST an awesome, passionate, powerful bit of music.
But then that's just today. Tomorrow I'll give you a different answer
Mr Cool July 29th, 2003, 02:12 PM

Is "A Beutiful Mind" the one where some guy has visions of when he was a codebreaker in the war or something? I've only
seen about five minutes of that, but it seemed good. Some day I'll have to watch the whole thing.
"Usual Suspects" was good too - I honestly didn't expect the ending, which is rare. Normally any clever twists near the end
have been obvious since half-way through the film, but that one actually took me by surprise.
"Heart Shaped Box" is good Frogfot. Nirvana is one of my favourite bands, although I prefer the style of "Unplugged in NY" to
"In Utero," for example. Some of it is too "shouty-screamy" for my liking. That's the term I use to describe any music where
the lyrics are sung so loud that you can't make them out. "You Know You're Right" is a pretty great song too I reckon. Quite
ironic in places, eg "Things have never been so swell, I have never felt this well." I think it's one of the last songs that he
recorded. What I like about Nirvana is that Cobain clearly had a few issues, and you can feel the emotion come through in his
songs. They're not like some bands, whos music is all made up, it has genuine feeling to it.
I'm a big fan of reggae too. Mainly when under the influence of, something...
Anthony July 29th, 2003, 02:22 PM

I'm going to say Lord of the Rings (either film), because it's a compelling story, interesting fights and I'd like to live in Middle
Earth... Except I'd introduce firearms and rule the place :)
Song, changes every hour, say New Found Glory - My Friends Over You, I like the guitar :)
This might be a good place to seek some help on naming a film I saw and can't remembner the name of. It was about a
woman who goes to hollywood to become an actress and stays in her aunt's (absent) apartment. Anotehr woman gets hit by a
car, suffers amnesia and crashes in this apartment. First girl discovers second girl, they try to sus out what happened to her,
someone got killed or something, there's a couple of lesbian sex scenes and then the film suddenly ends without answering
any of the bizarre things that go on. Anyone know which film I'm blabbering about?
knowledgehungry July 29th, 2003, 04:55 PM

God damn! all your music is so... bleh, I mean dance/techno what are you japanese? And new found glory? i thought you were
my friend anthony, i feel so betrayed, does anyone else like my type of music(oi!, streetpunk)?? Or am i the only nerd who
still listens to cool music?

Favorite Movie: I can't just pick one, so I will give a short list. Office space, The Professional, Swordfish, The Matrix(first one,
not the shitty second one)
Favorite Song: Probably something by Nirvana(they were, in my opinion, the greatest band ever).
Tuatara July 29th, 2003, 06:50 PM

@ frogfot : No, actually I detest "Grease" - movie and music!
ALENGOSVIG1 July 29th, 2003, 07:00 PM

Song - Shine on you crazy diamond by pink floyd. Nothing compares to pink floyd!
The music is just so diverse. Not only is their music very instumental, but its poetic, and they were some of the first to use
synthesizers etc.
Movie - Requiem for a dream. It's pretty slow at the beginning, but at the very end it all comes together and leaves you
thinking.
nbk2000 July 30th, 2003, 03:27 AM

Oh man....
The movie has to be "Blade Runner", directors cut.
The visual style, the noir aura, the whole 'is he (a replicant) or isn't he" question, the music (awesome soundtrack!), the eyes,
and the whole gritty future (read the book) of humans building machines more human than they are...WOW.
For song:
"Red Barchetta" by RUSH. The lyrics paint a picture of youthful exuberance, wide expanses, wind blowing through your hair,
thrilling chases, narrow escapes, all ended by reminisces by the fireside.
The guitar riffs are soaring, the drums...can't think of a word to describe them...but they're awesome, and the vocalist really
puts his soul into it.
Now, as for the runner ups...
Movies:
Boxing Helena.
This is such a subtly sick movie. Doctor loves girl, girl rejects doctor, girl gets in car wreck, doctor saves girl...but cuts off all her
limbs to make her TOTALLY dependant on him. Girl falls in love with doctor in the end. Such a tender scene...made me cry. ;)
:D
The Vanishing.
Jeff Bridges plays mild mannered family man psycho who snatches sandra bullock from quickie-mart and buries her alive. Her
boyfriend is stuck on trying to find her, so psycho tells him he'll show him what happened to her...if he agrees to go through it
himself. Dude wakes buried alive. :eek: They ruined a perfectly good story by having dudes new girlfriend pull a Dues Ex
Machina to save his ass and kill pyscho in the end. :(
Hand That Rocks the Cradle. (I think thats the title)

Rebecca de Morney (SP?) plays uber-nanny who takes over a family by making everyone else think that mommy is going
crazy, while all the while seducing hubby, breast feeding baby, and killing off anyone who stands her way. Way to go!
Bram Stokers Dracula

Dude...Vampires ROCK! The scene where dracula gets weak and tries to stop winona ryder from sucking his blood to become a
vampire got me all misty when she looks up at him and says "Take me away from all this DEATH!". Oh, and when dracula
denounces christ and stabs his sword into the cross, which begins gushing blood (which he drinks), that really rates as a very
dramatic moment to me.
Bound.
Gina Gurshon (SP?) and Jennifer Tilley as lezbo's who screw over the mob and run off together with the lot. The fingerbanging
scene is an instant classic. Oh, and the snipping off of fingers with pruning shears into the toilet (and flushing them) scene
was cool too. ;)
Full Metal Jacket.

Stanley Kubrick in full form with this flick. I especially liked the line in the beginning when the DI says "By the time you leave
this island, you will be a Minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR!" HELL YEAH! Oh, and when the main character blasts a gook
bitch sniper at the end and loses the innocent eyes of a naive boy and gets the thousand yard stare of a killer...oh, shivers!
This is also where we got the catchphrase "Me so horny, me love you long time." from. Every time I see a cute gook bitch I
can't help but think of that line. :p
I'm sure there's plenty more, but I'll spare you (and me) the typing.
MUSIC:
So much that I like, but my all time favorite band is RUSH. They're so varied in their style, and so well in tune with each other,
as only a band that's been together 30 years could be. And each of them are such accomplished musicians in their own rights.
And, what I really like about them, is that they've never gone "Hollywood", like most other bands (thinking aerosmith and
Rolling Stones as examples) have, thus never losing their focus on the music. Though they have ventured off into music
genre's of no interest to me as of late, so I just stick to pre-Force 10 RUSH.
Believe it or not, I also enjoy that "spacey" new-age music like Kitaro, Vangelis (who did the BR soundtrack), Red Planet (the
group, not the crappy movie), as well as others. It's just so relaxing to listen to. Hey, can't be a stressed out ax murderer all
the time, right?
Cyclonite July 30th, 2003, 04:13 AM

Song- Beatles, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, Metallica One, Doors riders on the storm
Movie- Predator, Ninja Scroll and iv always liked army of darkness
Sparky July 30th, 2003, 10:11 AM

Anthony, the movie you are thinking of is Mulholland Drive.

NBK, how come you suddenly stopped liking the Pet Shop Boys?:confused:
Nothing to do with everyone henceforth thinking you're a fag I suppose?:)
+++++++++++
I still like PSB, but this was asking about THE favorite movie and song, so :p NBK
GibboNet July 31st, 2003, 03:20 AM

Movies: Anything with Nick Cage - The Rock & 8mm especially.
Cruel intentions, because (apart from Sarah Michelle Gellar :rolleyes: ) of the way she tricked him into losing her, and the way
that the guy could get any woman into bed. He stuffed it up when he fell in love however.
Swordfish, because it was a great story, and because of the human claymores.
Lord of the Rings, because I love the ancient landscapes, and the brutal battles. The siege in the second was great.
Full Metal jacket, supposedly the best war movie of all time. the clips NBK were talking about I have on my comp here, but I
know you can find them on movie clip sites. Also, the line "I hate the name lawrence, only faggots and sailors are called
lawrence" I have a godd friend called.... you guessed, lawrence. He'll never stop hearing that.
"The usual suspects", for the twist, "Lock stock and two smoking barrells" for the great story, and too many others to name.
I won't bother with music. Too much to name, but I will say Acid trance is great, and I love nearly all techno music. rob
zombie, rammstein, 28 days, mudvayne, linkin park, sevendust, and especially scooter and nick skitz.
Best songs ever: the techno remox of a classical music piece from "excalibur" and another techno remix that I lost the name
of.
frogfot July 31st, 2003, 05:12 AM

We like SMG too, but not for her acting skills :D yeah, yeah, grr :rolleyes:
I recently discovered a rock band "Nightwish", think it was finnish. At first I associated them with Rammstein (for some reason)
but they got a bit "happier" music, it's about ancient knights and stuff like that (have no clue how to describe this better :) )
"Over the hills and far away" and "Away" is one of the good songs.
yt2095 July 31st, 2003, 06:36 AM

Hmmm.. sounds very reminiscent of a Gary Moore track?
grendel23 July 31st, 2003, 06:59 AM

Movie: American Beauty
Song: I like so many different types of music I can't pick just one
Punk: "Lets start a war" by Fear.
Classical: Mozart symphony #41
Jazz: "Hot Fun" Stanley Clark
Blues: "I Ain't Drunk" Albert Collins
Zydeco: "Crossroads" Buckwheat Zydeco
Rock: "Aerials" System Of A Down

Now I'm downloading few Gary Moore tracks, thanx yt :) and yes, he got some songs with similar names as nightwish.. hes
probably original. Though I like a combination of chicks voice with guitar solos :)
EDIT: Gary sounds like Ozzy Osbourne :p
knowledgehungry July 31st, 2003, 10:42 AM

So happy am I finally someone mentions a band that i know and like (FEAR), I am not alone! Do any of you guys go to shows
much(concerts). I do quite a lot, going to Lower Class Brats sometime very soon(not telling when, makes it extraordinarily
simple for people to find where i live, no search warrant required) also I have another favorite song the Business-hardcore
hooligan.
megalomania July 31st, 2003, 12:52 PM

Choosing a favorite may seem a difficult task, but I have but to consider the few movies and bits of music I have actually
chosen to own and the field narrows considerably. The movies I most thoroughly enjoy are a toss up between A Clockwork
Orange and Fight Club. Kubrick definitely has a stylistic flair that makes his movies exceptional. A Clockwork Orange is a
compelling story of a future socialist world gone amuck where we have a cultured and educated youth descend into the throes
of depravity and the thrill of evil. Fight Club is an equally compelling look into the inner mind of a man descending into what
the world would call madness, but he desperately struggles to redefine the flaws of the world by throwing off the shackles of
commercialism and defying the conventional norm.
My music choice is q uite easy, I rather enjoy Beethoven s 7th symph ony second moveme nt. Most m usic with words tries to
force you to feel a certain emotion with the lyrics, I hate that. With classical music you can let the sound take your mind where
it will and you can feel the emotion you want. Classical music has endured for hundreds of years and will endure for
hundreds more, but the music of today will be scoffed and hated by our children, and our grandchildren will likely never hear
any of it. At least no one said they like the corporate cookie cutter sound of Britney Spears or N-Sync (instant ban!) may their
C D s warp and crack and the RIAA burn in hell for a centillion eons.
knowledgehungry July 31st, 2003, 03:35 PM

Hehe, my girlfriends screen name is NSYNC***** she has had since she was in 5th grade, and she has grown attached to it. It
makes me sad to see, however she does NOT like them anymore, her music is still far too girly, but then again i like my girls
girly...
Arkangel July 31st, 2003, 05:58 PM

knowledgehungry I try to go to gigs as often as possible. I'm soon going to the V2003 (http://www.v2003-music-festival.co.uk/
CHELMSFORD-LINEUP.htm) festival, camping over the weekend and a HUGE number of amazing bands in 6 arenas. Last year I
got stoned and soaked it all in - possibly the best ever weekend of my many years. Counting Crows, Gomez, Starsailorz,
Chemical Brothers, the list went on
Bander July 31st, 2003, 09:51 PM

Thread Deja Vu.
Movie: Arlington Road (http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Movies/Titles/A/Arlington_Road/?tc=1). It is one of the few

movies I know in which what society defines as the 'bad guy' wins. Not to mention the excellent acting of Joan Cusack as the
freakishly disturbing housewife.
Music: Apocalyptica - Fight Fire With Fire. I listen to a mix of metal, classical, and punk. Apocalyptica mixes the first two
(metal, classical) in an amazing way. It has the hard, frantic feeling of rock combined with intricate patterns and violin, ...well,
I lack the proper knowledge to accurately describe what I like about classical music. But whatever it is, Apocolyptica captures it.

Mega, I cant believe I forgot Fight Club in my last post...... thats my favorite movie of all time. Its one of the few I can watch
multiple times, its the one id pick for sure.
stickfigure August 1st, 2003, 11:52 AM

Film: The Blues Brothers. I used to watch this all the time when I was a kid. It's a musical but at least it's R&B, Jake and
Elwood give the Cops a lot of Hell and smash up a ton of cars. They always seem just to get away at the last minute and don't
get killed in the end in some mindless shoot out, it actually ends on a good note.
Song: Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon. This album was written to be one long song but their recording label had them divide
it into seperate songs as people tend to lose interest without pauses. I can get lost in this album, it's the soundtrack to many
good nights in my teenage years and a beautiful piece of work. Hands down my favorite.
My favorites tend to be things I grew up with that have a sentimental value to them. New movies are cool, The Lord of the
Rings is one of my favorite books after the Hobbit but, the movie is new and I haven't really changed any of my life habits
because of it. Now the Blues Brothers was a huge influence, I mean, I probably won't even be a member of this forum if it
wasn't for that movie. That might sound stupid but it's the orignal thought of nonconforminty that the movie instilled into me
when I was a child. I think the first time I saw it I was about 4 or 5 and being that Jake and I have a similar first name I
became "Jake" and my brother became "Elwood". And I tested the law every chance I had growing up, one day I was watching
the Blues Brothers with my ex-girlfriend telling her "It's my favorite and the first movie I can really remember watching,
besides "Smokey and the Bandit." She looked at me and said "No Fucking Wonder!"
Along that topic, "Smokey and the Bandit" is another movie that is in that category that I love along with "The Dukes of
Hazard" TV show. Those were the days that you could actually run from the cops and maybe get away wtih it.
Quote:
Elwood - "It's a 106 miles to Chicago, we got a tank full of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing
sunglasses."
Jake - "Hit it."
knowledgehungry August 1st, 2003, 12:18 PM

hehehe i like apocalyptica too, they do metallica covers.
Nitroman August 1st, 2003, 01:08 PM

Song:Its not unusual by Tom Jones.
Film: We were soldiers with Mel Gibson.
Mr Cool August 1st, 2003, 02:06 PM

"Too hard to name one, so I'll give a list."
Aww, that's CHEATING! :)
Anthony August 1st, 2003, 02:14 PM

Ahh, Mulholland Drive - thanks! :)
I don't own any new found glory albums, it's just one song in my large "odds and ends" mp3 folder. I like my music to be
emotive, powerful or just plain rockin' :)
Favs:
Broken by Nine Inch Nails, pretty much all three of the above
A Perfect Circle, emotive
Sing the Sorrow - AFI, not seriously any of the above, but I do like the very last song on track 14.
"We were soliders" was a terrible film!
Skean Dhu August 1st, 2003, 03:02 PM

fav songs: Edgecrusher~Fear Factory
Don't tread on me ~Metallica
fav movies: Monty Python & the Holy Grail
Saving Private Ryan-- hours of senseless killing
Good Morning Vietnam
"*rotors thumping in backround* yea we got a water buffalo jack-knifed down there big mess horns everywhere, boys might
drop some napalm later on have ourselves a little Barbeque"(sp?)
knowledgehungry August 1st, 2003, 06:07 PM

I just discovered ROCKABILLY! holy shit that stuff is good, everyone go download some songs by the stray cats NOW! Or face
my wrath.
Total_CDRW August 1st, 2003, 09:14 PM

Favorite Movie: Event Horizon
Favorite Song: ATC - Around the World :D
Keyser Soze August 1st, 2003, 09:35 PM

Fight Club is one of the movies I can watch over and over again. Fear and Loathing is another one of my favorites right now, I
just love Johnny Depps antics.
Music - Anyone in the US heard of Bonnaroo? Its a huge music festival on a 600 acre farm in tennessee that happens every
spring/summer(well, it's only happened twice, but it draws a HUGE crowd). Some of it's hippie music, and while i don't like
hippies, I like some of their music. One of the bands is moe., and an awesome song by them is Rebubula. The String Cheese
Incident(SCI) is also good.
EDIT: I don't know what to classify this music as, but Deltron 3030 is pretty good. Virus and Mastermind are good songs by
them.
vulture August 2nd, 2003, 09:05 AM

Movies: Snatch (hilarious), Memento, Saving Private Ryan and The Beverly Hillbillies (very hilarious)
I hate the way how Tom Clancy's books are being degraded by Hollywood. Clear and Present danger is a good example of an
excellent book fucked up by hollywood.
I don't listen much music. Fucking artist who are whining "Copying cuts our profit" and then they buy a new bentley because
the old one doesn't match their hair color. :rolleyes:
Why does someone have to make millions of dollars just because he happens to have the right face & voice (although the last
thing isn't even a criterium anymore)?
I do have a favourite radio station though.
nbk2000 August 2nd, 2003, 03:27 PM

Notice how there's no ugly pop/rock/movie stars? I'm not talking just plain, but UGLY, like they fell out the ugly tree and hit
every branch on the way down kind of ugly?
I'm sure there's plenty of ugly people out there that are just as talented (if not more so) a singer/actor as any of the happy/
shiny (and silicone) people that currently inhabit hollywood. Is there an unspoken form of discrimination taking place against
ugly people in the 'biz, a liberal agenda to breed only uber-pretty faces for the next generation of starlets?! :eek: CALL THE
GOP! UGLY PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS!
:p
And, since you brought up being called fag, I thought I'd relate my observations on that.
Two nights in a row, as I'm walking home from work, I was called "Fag!" and other various common obscenities by people
driving past me.
I've noticed that, if you're walking/have all your front teeth/aren't wearing oil-stained denim coveralls (with no shirt
underneath)/wearing shoes/not holding your sister-momma's hand, that red-necks driving by at freeway speeds in their life-
size Hotwheel trucks have the courage to stand up for the hetrosexuals of the world by calling you a fag. :rolleyes:
Naturally, these are eagle eyed defenders of straightness, since they can obviously tell a person sexual orientation while
driving by at 50 mph, from behind, at night, and in very dim street lighting. Must be that swish I put in my hips that's giving
me away! ;)
My, how very brave they are to face an angry pedestrian fags wrath by running away at 50mph, without ever having stopped in
the first place, after hurling such viciously slurred words from alcohol fumed mouths. I'm sure heterosexuals everywhere are
proud to have such brave souls to defend their gender preference. :p
'Course, these same defenders of sexual orientation are strangely silent when on equal footing (literally) with the "fag" (me)
since I've never heard anyone say such a thing to my face on the streets, where I could (and likely would) hurt them. It seems
that such courage is only to be found at speeds over 20mph. How gay is that? :D
This is why I don't carry a gun with me all the time...the temptation to apply an impromptu lesson in eugenics via lead
injection would be overwhelming.
vulture August 2nd, 2003, 03:55 PM

The ignorant fucks are injecting their faces with "Botox", heaven forbid they find out it's botulinum toxine, an evil weapon of
mass destruction!
Would be a nice job for you NBK. Plastic surgeon in Hollywood specialized in paralyzing face musculature with toxins. :D
Too bad you mistake that big vain in their necks for their face sometimes....:D
wrench352 September 23rd, 2003, 12:31 PM

The Traveling Wilburys were all ugly,I heard Seal is an honorary member.
Favorite movie Apocalypse Now,the original not the redux.I'd like to see it remade set in Iraq on the Tigris.
Favorite song of all time 18min. version J. Hendrix "Red House"
I got to see Rush on their Presto tour great concert.
Kid Orgo September 23rd, 2003, 03:17 PM

does anyone else like my type of music(oi!, streetpunk)??
Absolutely. Dropkick and The Business (to name my two favorites), all the way. What else could a irish drunk listen to? I also
listen to a lot of metal, particularly of the Swedish variety.
I can only narrow it down to top four:

Pulp Fiction
Reservoir Dogs
Snatch
Boondock Saints
Three Kings
Honorable Mention: Falling Down (anyone ever seen that flick?)
Favorite Song. I suggest you download it.
At the Gates - Forever Blind
In this cell that is ours there is no pity

No sunrise on the cold plain that is our soul
No beckoning to a warm horizon
The sun shall never greet my eyes again
It is our world
It has been stolen from us, bastards
No goddamn sun
No goddamn pain
I've searched my heart for love
But all in vain
No goddamn sun, no goddamn pain
FireFly September 24th, 2003, 11:41 AM

Song: Beethoven "Fur Elise" I find this song very relaxing, and enjoyable to listen to while working on "experiments". Runner
up would be Skid Row "18 and Life"
Movie: "Faces of Death II" I find this film very amusing in a twisted kind of way. Runner up "Blow"
chokingvictim78 September 29th, 2003, 03:31 AM

Movie: Either Donnie Darko, or Pi
Song: Choking Victim-Crack Rock Steady, Fear-I Don't Care About You (fuck you), The Pist-Were the Pist, Blitz-Criminal
Damage. I have a lot...depends on my mood. I highly suggest everyone, who has at least partial mental function, dowload
Crack Rock Steady.
Crack Rock Steady,

are you ready to stop
the rotten blue menace?
Let's go kill us a cop.
Crack Rock Steady,
are you ready?
Living above the law!
Po' little lice, the po' little screws,

the whitest gang crew, the hated boys in blue.
Like scabei on the street, they infest the beat,
fucking my life but I won't admit defeat to them!
Above the law, above the law come now,
No copper will be safe till they are dead and done now.
Let's lay em down low, let's hang em up high,
Let's take all of these piggies, and have them crucified!
Hardcore, rugged and raw,

on the streets of New York, we live above the fucking law.
It don't matter the color of your skin,
as long as you not scandolous, commit no sin to me,
or my tribe.
Would not be wise.
Time to smell the ganja, open up your fucking eyes.
Kick back, keep your attitude in check,
and give the crack rock steady much respect.
Don't ya know that satan is the man?

So listen very close because we got a little plan:
We're gonna have to execute some rich important people,
gonna burn down all the churches and topple all the steeples.
See a frown? turn that cross upside down.
Grab a gun or baseball bat, let's go to fuckin town!
Let's kill the police, I'll be saying little more,
But when the cops come to your door,
don't forget the choice is yours!
Riot sound, police come round,

With the bass and drum we knock 'em down,
Chop 'em up with the riffs an' in the stew,
Drinkin' pot liquor made of poison glue,
Pick it up!
Someone way up livin' in those high-rise castles
Wishing with the hope that I lick their assholes
with the beat we burn down those big brass doors,
Here we go!
Rocksteady!
Ahriman September 29th, 2003, 07:24 AM

I dont really have an all-time favourite song, right now I keep putting Fear Factory - Ressurection on, plus that song have a
mad-arse film clip :)
Favourite Movie: no question about it, Fight Club wins by a mile. I love the way the first time you watch it, you think you get it,
but everytime after that when you watch it you keep finding more stuff, and how it all ties together. I read the book after
watching the movie, and I still cant quite decide which I prefer, both have changed my life more than I really know, or can
explain. Plus, its the only movie with Brad Pitt in it that I can watch without throwing up ;)
blindreeper September 29th, 2003, 07:28 AM

Right now it's the Ataris - Teenage Riot
wrench352 November 7th, 2003, 01:48 PM

Slipknot!!!!
xyz November 7th, 2003, 11:12 PM
Movie: "Fight Club" or "Ali G In Da House", the first is an awesome movie, the second is just plain hilarious.
Song: I really can't decide on a favourite song, it is a tie between these:

Breathe - Prodigy
Pandemonium - Prodigy
Feuer Frei - Rammstein (If I really had to pick one, it would be this)
Tier - Rammstein
Hierate Mich - Rammstein
Asche Zu Asche - Rammstein
Superbeast - Rob Zombie
Dragula - Rob Zombie
Liberate - Disturbed
As you can probably see, Rammstein is my favourite band, I strongly recommend their music to all pyros (watch the video clip
to "Feuer Frei" and you'll see what I mean, I'm surprised that nobody suffocated due to the gaseous byproducts from all the
pyro effects on stage and above the audience), they are pretty psycho too (Has anyone seen those face mounted flame
throwers that make them look like they are breathing a 20m jet of fire?).
McGyver November 8th, 2003, 02:47 AM

Being a guitarist, i would rather choose and instrumental then a song. So i would go with Orion-Metallica. Although there are
alot more songs i like by metallica, and its also my favorite band. Lately i have been listening to Diamond Head and other old
school heavy metal bands, mostly becuase i try to learn the riffs.
There havn't been any really good movies that came out recently. But I saw The Shawshank Redemption not to long ago and
it is really good.
spydamonkee November 8th, 2003, 06:50 PM

xyz you have very good taste IMHO ;)
rammstein is also one of my favourite bands i have all their songs and music video's and love how much they take the piss
outa so many issues.
I strongly reccomend obtaining the Ich Will (I want) music video by rammstein.
Fav Music:
Rammstein (what i listen to the most)

Rob Zombie & White Zombie
666
Prodigy ("Baby's got a temper" is a crackup music vid)
Paul van Dyk feat Saint Etien - Tell me why
Felix da House cat
I could go on & on i like such a range of music even some classical and opera :D
Fav Movie's:
The matrix 1,2&3 i would rank 1st

Leon the professional
American beauty
Crouching tiger hidden dragon
A Clockwork orange
Swordfish
Arlington Road
fight club
storm riders
I'll stop now i think :p
xyz November 9th, 2003, 07:24 AM

Spydamonkee, Baby's got a temper is another one of my favourite songs, But I forgot to add it to that list.
Have you heard "Hierate Mich" by Rammstein? Look at the lyrics, that is a prime example of them taking the piss out of an
issue :) .
Have you heard any music by Disturbed? If not then you should listen to "Liberate", and "Down with the Sickness".
jim2 November 12th, 2003, 09:51 AM

My favorite movies are Forrest Gump because of all the lives that he touches and a X-mas movie It's a wonderful life A movie
with great emotions at a time of year to express love and hapiness
My favorite songs are House of the raisin Sun and Desperado
very old stuff.Has anyone heard of these songs and movies ?
arm November 16th, 2003, 08:25 PM

Fav Movie(s):
Fight Club. Saw it only a few weeks ago actually, bloody good.
Army of Darkness. Cracks me up every time for some reason.
Fav Music:
Bach, BWV 565, Toccata & Fugue in D Minor. Powerfull, baroque organ piece with Bach's brilliant use of counterpoint and
dissonance. Needs a huge pipe organ for best effect.
Franz Liszt, Ad nos, ad salutarem undam. Organ piece, bloody long and takes a lot of listenings to fully appreciate.
Johann Strauss II, The Emperor Waltz. Extravagant waltz, beautiful hamony, melody and fantasic orchestration you'd expect
from the strausses.
(You can tell I like the Pipe Organ, but as someone once said, it is the "King of Instruments" and is by no means limited to
playing morose religious music).
zeocrash November 17th, 2003, 06:00 AM

hmmm. i dont really have an all time favourite film, but at the moment my favourite film is probably thirteen days.
Musicwise my faveourite band of all time is the offspring
but i've also been listening to a lot of rhapsody (http://www.mightyrhapsody.com/index2.htm), and metallica recently.

Spydamonkee, I have just got a whole bunch of songs by 666, that is some cool music!
It's like techno/club music but with a death metal theme.
BTW, I watched Leone the professional for the first time yesterday, that is another awesome movie ("This is for Matilda"
KABOOOM!!!).
tmp November 27th, 2003, 08:26 PM

Favorite Movie - Star Trek II:The Wrath Of Khan
I'm on Khan's side in this one. I live for revenge. If what happened to Khan
happened to me I'd want a piece of Admiral Kirk's ass too !
Favorite Song - Dio:The Last In Line
Kid Orgo, I have "Falling Down" with Michael Douglass. I felt his pain, being an
ex-DoD employee myself.
xyz, love your last post ! Just as Leon hands Gary Oldman the grendade pin !
John Ashcroft November 28th, 2003, 09:20 AM

Favorite movie: Fight Club. Favorite song: NIN's "Burn."
The Anarch December 6th, 2003, 05:56 PM

Favorite movie will always be Braveheart. Favorite song kinda changes daily... alltime favorite is Nirvana - Lithium though.
pornopete December 6th, 2003, 06:18 PM

Boon Dock saints and Lock stock are the best films ever made So many guns..
Street punk kick ass N Z scene is solid as..Fav song has to be the gauntlet by DKM. OI!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Test your pearl swag skills! :)
Log in
View Full Version : Test your pearl swag skills! :)
nbk2000 July 31st, 2003, 03:22 AM

Since the subject of pearls was brought up (by me :)), I thought I'd take this opportunity to quiz the membership on their skills.
See, as part of the DVD, I've scanned books that are gemologist references for various gems, such as pearls, diamonds, gold, etc., so that a crim can tell what's worth taking,
and what's not. No sense pulling a job if you end up heisting inferior swag, eh? :p
So, how well do you think you'd do, when it comes to judging swag? Test yourselves by downloading the picture (488kb), and telling me which two pearl strands (conveniently
lettered) are worth the most, and why you think that.
Just so you know, all of the pearls are real (no imitations), cultured (no naturals), and not dyed, irradiated, or treated in any way.
This is also an opportunity for you to preview the quality of the scan work that I'm doing with my books. Mind you, the attached picture had to be reduced in quality by 4x in
order to be small enough to be uploaded. :eek: The full size is a true masterpiece of the scanning art, if I do say myself. ;) :D
++++++++
Attachemnt deleted.
a_bab July 31st, 2003, 04:48 AM

I'd say E and I. Reasons later.

All of them! :p theyre not that heavy to carry.. but then again if I would choose like you originally said, i'd take G. My reason is not that complicated, therefore I'll tell it right
away, simply because they're black and most round (I heard somewhere that black pearls are most expencive..)
irish July 31st, 2003, 05:33 AM

I think s or o , it's very hard to tell with a photo tho and I don't know a lot about pearls (I DO know about sappires :D )
It is a good scan even cut down 4x.
nbk2000 July 31st, 2003, 05:39 AM

If you use an image viewer, you can magnify it 2x to get a better view of the imperfections, which DO count a lot towards the value (or lack thereof).
Naturally all of the strands are valuable, and I'd take them all, but that's why I also limited it to the top two, so you'd have to choose. :p
Flake2m July 31st, 2003, 05:55 AM

Do you know which ones are the most valuble NBK?
I would say rows I and E.

I know that black pearls are expensive, but I have no idea about yellow pearls.
Both rows have very few inperfections in them.
Though if I was raiding a vault full of pearls I would grab as many pearls as I could, then I would worry about the value of them later. Considering that some pearls can be
worth several thousand dollars each, even if only a few were worth selling, you'd still make a small fortune.
FireBomb July 31st, 2003, 09:38 AM

I would go with A B C and R those are what im going with.

On closer investigation, F&L. They are roundest and have less defects..
A-BOMB July 31st, 2003, 09:55 AM

I saw E,I,L,O because they don't have those protuberances one the sides like some of the others and a uniform roundnessness. (is that even a word:rolleyes: )
knowledgehungry July 31st, 2003, 10:56 AM

E and L, they are smooth round and uniformly colored. But I'm no expert.
yt2095 July 31st, 2003, 12:59 PM

taking them all has been done to death but I would anyway, IF I had to choose and had the luxury of time, the black ones would come with me, esp the ones with the
"imperfections" the white ones with the imperfections would go also. the only real intrisic value of the "perfect" ones are based on aesthetics alone, whereas the "imperfect"
ones are valuable in their own right due to their individuality, however they would be more difficult to fence (insurance photographs etc...), and a Foreign buyer would perhaps
be your best option (pref and inland buyer, as Pearls are cheaper the closer you get to the coast), unless you could find a way to sell them back to the original owner (adding a
little ontop of intrinsic value for sentimental value) :)
sorry for the glut/block of txt, trying to type as fast as speak and foods nearly ready :)
nbk2000 July 31st, 2003, 05:35 PM

Yes, I know which ones are the most valuable. :)
Here's some help for you guys.
If a pearl costing $1000 decreases 1 mm in size, its price may drop 50%, to $500. If it then changes from a dark greenish grey color to a muddy gray with no overtones, it's
price could drop another 50%, to $250. Going from a very high to very low luster could bring its price to $125. And then adding lots of flaws to it could bring it down to $50.
The prime valuators are:
Symmetry
Flaws (or lack thereof)
Luster (AKA "orient", iridescence)

Size
Color
Make
There's no real order of importance between these, since an imbalance of one of the values can complete offset the perfection of all the rest. Pearls are judged as a whole of
these values, unlike gemstones that can be mathmatically graded.
There's a balance that needs to be made between all these factors. For instance, large pearls can be worth less than smaller pearls, if the large pearls are lower in luster than
the smaller pearls. Pearls of equal size can have different worth depending on the type of color. Pearls of equal size and color have different worths based on their luster The
"make" of a strand refers the the quality of the entire strand, when taken as a whole, as compared to the quality of the individual pearls on the strand.
chemwarrior July 31st, 2003, 10:24 PM

Not positive to which are worth the most, but Im making the assumption about E, I, K, and O. Their size, color, and shape seems to make them look the most valuable.
blindreeper August 1st, 2003, 01:15 AM

I'd say D, E , L, I, O because they are the biggest most perfect ones.
Spudkilla August 1st, 2003, 01:17 AM

R - Nice luster, Tahitian black pearls, barquoe pearls (symetrical).
F - Very nice luster, black pearls, all round.
firebreether August 1st, 2003, 01:35 AM

L and I, because they are large, pretty round, decent consistency. But E is very sexy and I believe comes in very close behind.
nbk2000 August 1st, 2003, 01:38 AM

a_bab, you get theGolden Gun, for being the first to get it right, as well as being very quick about it. :) You can watch my back on a job. :D BTW, what was your reasons for
choosing those?
Flake2m, A-BOMB, chemwarrior, blindreeper, and firebreether had it mostly right. You guys get to sit in the car and keep the motor running. :)
yt2095, Spudkilla, FireBomb, irish, and frogfot...you guys need to go back behind the walls for a few more (years) to get some more schoolin'. :p
++++++++++++++++++++
A, B, C, P, Q, and R are low value (comparitively speaking, of course) because they are not symmetrically shaped.
Symmetry is HIGHLY important in valuation of pearls. Round is the ideal. Any deviation from the shape devalues the pearl. The more distorted the shape, the lower the value.
Thus C and R would be the lowest valued for their size and type because of their highly asymmetric shapes (known as baroque).
D, J, M, N, and S are more symmetrical, being what's called "Off Round", thus more valuable than the previously mentioned ones. However, these suffer from surface
imperfections (referred to as "blemishes"). These flaws are especially noticable in strands G and S, where not a single pearl on the strand is without flaw.
G, H, and O suffer from poor "make". That is, the pearls on the strand are poorly matched, not being of same color. This is particulary noticable in strand H which has all
shades of the rainbow present. O has low lustor pearls.
Now, for the good pearls...
F is highly symmetrical, very few flaws, good make, and highly lusturous.
L is highly symmetrical, has very few flaws, has good make, and is quite lusturous.
The top three pearls are E, I, and K
If you compare K with L, you'll notice that while K is slightly less round, it is both larger (remember, a difference of 1mm can double price) and more lustorous. You'll notice
how the reflections of the lights in strand K are much more sharply defined than that in L, as well as being more iridescent (play of colors).
E has excellent uniformity of color for the strand, meaning excellent make, as well as being composed of highly valued Tahiatian pearls. Since these are round, have excellent
lustor, and are nearly flawless, these are the second most valuable strand in the picture.
The big winner of the pearls is I.
Given that the larger the pearl, the more rare it is for it to be round, the fact that there's so many round pearls of this size on a single strand makes it noticable. When you
combine it with very few flaws, excellent make, and highly lustorous pearls, you've got a winner.
And, what really makes this the top dog, is the color.
I is worth more than twice K because golden pearls are very rare. When you combine a strand of them together, the whole is worth much more than the parts.
Strand I is valued at over $250,000. :D
E and K are between 120-$150,000.
For comparison, C, P, Q, R and S are less than $10,000.
chemwarrior August 1st, 2003, 03:21 AM

Lol, dang, I picked the 3 most valuable... as well as one of the lowest value! lol. Oh well, first time trying to determine the value something like that, I think I did pretty
good.... hehe. Not that it would make a whole lot of difference if I grabbed all 4, only to find out that the one was shit:) the others more than make up for the difference:D
GibboNet August 1st, 2003, 04:02 AM

I opened this topic thinking that it couldn't be too hard, and I opened google, and looked up grading methods fro pearls. By the time I had made my descicion, I had read most
of this page. Then of course, I got a bit further down, and the answer had already been given. :(
Here's a good resource: http://www.johnrist.com/pearl_grading_guide.htm
It explains everything NBK said in a very easy to understand way, with illustrations. Just go down to the grading of pearls thing.
I wish I had got in earlier now.
blindreeper August 1st, 2003, 04:20 AM

Yay looks like I have the skills to be a pearl theif!
nbk2000 August 1st, 2003, 04:28 AM

It means you've got enough promise to bring on a job, but not enough skills to go inside.
To quote Han Solo (:D):
"Don't cocky kid!"
:p
yt2095 August 1st, 2003, 08:51 AM

"Cast not your Pearls before swine"...
no fuckin wonder I came last! :)
the only "pearl necklaces" I like to give, have nothing to do with mollusk secretions :D
a_bab August 1st, 2003, 11:10 AM

Well, I've been thinking that size matters. Also the less defects there are the better the pearl is. Then I knew that black pearls are rare and much more expensive than the
white ones (didn't even knew that there are yellow ones, so these must to be even rare).
What makes a diamond expensive ? It's rarity. Same with the gold, etc.
Dividing the gold into small parts will divide the value; turning a diamond into dust will render it to nothing more than a very good abrasive powder. So for diamonds, gems,
and especially pearls etc. the most important quality is the perfection of the shape. Then size and finally the rarity of the colour.
In other words, the first white big unregular shaped rows worth nearly nothing compared to the big perfect exotic yellow and black ones.
Thanks for the theGolden Gun NBK2000, I'll be a very good member in your team ;)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Some Pics of Spies and their Weapons and Tools
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jelly August 2nd, 2003, 01:06 PM

While testing my new spy camera I went to a bookstore, took a wonderful large-sized book
about historical spies and their weapons and tools and took a photo of some pages...
without any tripod and flash :p so they are not very sharp.
Here are some pics of "dead drops", "silenced weapons", "close-combat w eapons",
"concealed weapons" and "assassination weapons" on a single page... 3.2 MBytes...
and online for about one w eek.
Some Pics of Spies and their Weapons and Tools (http://jelly146.tripod.com/spy)
Spudkilla August 2nd, 2003, 07:28 PM

Actually, the pictures are pretty good, I think. By spy camera, do you mean regular digital camera, or some "fit-in-the-palm-of-an-ant" camera? I have already saved the
picture to my HDD. There is some pretty neat stuff in there.
GibboNet August 2nd, 2003, 10:04 PM

You might want to consider a new server, I got an error:
This website has temporarily exeeded it bandwidth limit. You can visit again in tw o hours...
Or something similar. I'll try again in a few hours. :(
jelly August 3rd, 2003, 08:56 AM

There is some pretty neat stuff in there.
NBK2000 doesn't like armed guests at his parties.
But I doubt that he'd find the "single-shot rectal pistol"... see page 180 :)
--------------------
It's a very small digital camera without any viewfinder or display... with a strong
wide-angle lens and a fixed focus.
This makes it possible to choose the w anted details by cropping and rotating
in Photoshop instead of aiming suspiciously w ith the camera ;)
---------------------
There are some bandwidth limits... monthly (1GB, it's ok) and hourly (maybe 10-20 MB)
But my TRIPOD account is free.
I think, there is no free account w ithout similar bandwidth limits.
A-BOMB August 3rd, 2003, 09:32 PM

I have a edition of that book (I'm guessing older) if anyone w ants it all scanned please tell. And when I w as looking at the pic I have 2 of the guns in there the .380 m-1934
berretta and a SSG-82 in .215(5.45x39).
nbk2000 August 4th, 2003, 12:26 AM

NBK2000 doesn't like armed guests at his parties.
But I doubt that he'd find the "single-shot rectal pistol"
Don't be too sure about that. ;) :p
BTW, jelly, hows the high-security lock book scan coming along?
jelly August 4th, 2003, 10:35 AM

nbk2000: You can find the book in the RECENT directory of the FTP... the title begins with "Modern" ;)
nbk2000 August 4th, 2003, 02:54 PM

Great, and if I was able to log in to the damn thing I'd be sure to get a copy. :(
jelly August 6th, 2003, 08:52 PM

Have you dow nloaded the book in the meantime? I don't have any problems (log in/ul/dl) w ith the Forum FTP.
nbk2000 August 6th, 2003, 11:13 PM

Can't get logged in. :confused:
How big is it?

7.x MB

.
Rhadon August 7th, 2003, 12:52 PM

A-BOMB, it'd be great if you could scan the book. I could do some of the work for you: You scan the book, upload the (preferably 600 DPI) images to an FTP (don't know how
the FTP situation w ill be when you're done), I dow nload them and process them to a PDF file.
The question is whether color images of black & white images should be used. Acrobat 6 does support the JPEG2000 standard w hich would be a good choice for colored images,
so I think it might be a worth taking the disadvantage of forcing interested persons to use the latest version of Acrobat Reader if you choose color.
I just did some tests regarding filesize with PDF files containing colored images w hich are compressed with JPEG2000. Here's the results.
format filesize (MB)

------ -------------
color - uncompressed 35
color - JPEG2000 1.5
black & w hite* - JBIG-2 0.5
(*)B&W can be used instead of grayscale with almost no quality loss.
Testing object was a one page bitmap PDF w ith a resolution of 600 DPI. The filesize is only useful for a comparison, though, because not every page will require the amount of
memory given in the table above (it needs less).
My Tripod account has been deleted. Who is the damned traitor? :D
I'm searching for another free web hoster. Any idea?
A-BOMB August 7th, 2003, 03:30 PM

Forget me scanning any thing till i get a new scanner, somehow the glass plate in it cracked into 3 and fell into it and I cant get them out. And the w eirdest thing is I have no
idea how it broke, I last used it a couple of w eeks ago and a day or so ago I try to scan in the diagram for the rifle I'm building and its broke.
++ ++++ +++ +++
Use pliers to break the pieces into small enough to pull out chunks.
Surely you can unscrew the scanner casing?
NBK
nbk2000 August 7th, 2003, 03:31 PM

I've got another FTP account that might still be up. Could you upload the book to it if I get you the needed info, jelly?

Yes

A-BOMB, sorry to hear about your scanner's fate... perhaps you can repair it somehow , but I don't know if it'll give good results if you use an improvised glass plate, such as a
piece of old w indows glass. I you've got a "glass cutter" it might be w orth a try, though.

nbk2000: I have put a password protected version into a public area of the Forum FTP.
Grab it here: ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted Images/fornbk2000only.zip
But where shall I post the password?

Is there a nice hidden place in my user profile panel... available only for me and the mods?
zeocrash August 7th, 2003, 07:03 PM

couldn't you post it in the private events in the callendar.
can mods see this or is it only the specific member that can see this
nbk2000 August 7th, 2003, 09:00 PM

Your missing the point, jelly...I don't HAVE ftp access of any sort. And the EWF account is UPLOAD only, you can't download from it. :(
I'm e-mailing you the private FTP info. I don't know if it's still up or not, since I don't have any FTP access through my ISP, but if it is, upload and tell me that it's there, and I'll
go to a kinko's and download it from there. :)
Calander events are staff only.
GibboNet August 8th, 2003, 01:21 AM

You might want to try ww w.spaceports.com I'm currently hosting 15Mb of PDF's there (PHP manuals and the like) one file is 6.5 Mb or so, and they haven't closed it down. 5
Gig transfer a month too, so you should be right. Just upload the one zip file or w hatever.
That would also make it avaliable to anyone else that wants the pics, like me, as I never got them.
nbk2000 August 8th, 2003, 02:06 AM

For once, the webftp proxy w as w orking, so I found out that my FTP site is still up. :)
Upload like the wind jelly.
Also, don't zip the pics into one giant ZIP file, since the proxy can cut out at any time, and it does NOT resume downloads. :( So, each picture needs to be seperate so I can
download it one pic at a time. :)
Unless the pics can be compressed, in which case individually compressing each page will help with downloading. :D

nbk2000:
I don't HAVE ftp access of any sort. And the EWF account is UPLOAD only, you can't download from it.
Sorry, nbk2000, but that's not right. The public EWF account is for uploading all stuff into the
"upload" dir and for uploading/downloading pictures into/from the "Hosted pictures" dir.
I have put the file into the "Hosted images" dir :).. and I have tested the link above yesterday and a few minutes ago... when I click onto the link, the window of my brow ser
opens and the dow nload begins.
Does "I don't have any FTP access through my ISP" mean that you cannot access to a FTP with your web browser?
Nihilist August 8th, 2003, 07:36 AM

ya jelly it does. However, if the FTP w ere modified to run on a different port(prolly have to be >1024), then NBK could access it without his ISP blocking it.

nbk2000: The stuff is on your FTP. Download all 26 parts and open the first part with WinRAR 3.x.
The pw is "satanclaus"... not "santa" :)
P.S.: You have got the book... I have lost my homepage...

I think, you should remove this thread :p
stickfigure August 9th, 2003, 04:56 AM

Jelly, w hat is name of that book? Full name and publsiher perhaps?
A-BOMB August 9th, 2003, 07:56 AM

Forget about me not being able to scan it I just went to Best Buy yesterday and bought a new 4 in 1 printer,copier,scanner,fax. I should have it connected later, I just need to
get all new drivers since I haven't updated my computer in a while.
nbk2000 August 10th, 2003, 12:51 AM

Got the book. :)
Good shit! :D
nbk2000 August 10th, 2003, 10:56 PM

Jelly, I assume you still have the book, correct? If so, then it'd be good to make a printable copy of the pick tool pages, as a picture, and including a millimeter scale (scanned in
at the same time as the page), so that people could print out the pages and use them as templates for grinding their ow n tools, since the book is (supposedly) exact to scale for
doing so.
After reading the book, I've seen a few rather annoying things that I see a lot of Paladin "Punk" Press authors doing.
In the new er T-handles, these cylinders need only to turn 90 to 120 degrees, which means that you must still pick them at least two or three times. This problem can be
overcome with various locksmiths' rim cylinder pick tools (one of which I designed myself). But I cannot discuss these here as little skill is involved and such tools in the hands of
an unscrupulous few w ould create much grief and condemn the radial pin tumbler lock into extinction.
AND
I have no intention in even trying to figure out how to crack this system and even if I did know how , I wouldn't tell for obvious reasons.
Hmm...so he'll tell us a tediously slow way to pick tubular locks, but w on't tell us how to make a tubular pick that can do the same thing in a fraction of the time, because "little
skill is involved...and condemn the...lock to extinction"
Well, if the lock was secure, then you wouldn't be able to pick it with "little skill", regardless of the tool so, just like all locksmiths, he seeks to protect the continued existance of
an insecure lock because it's bread and butter for his livelyhood. :rolleyes:
It's this same "Security through Obscurity" mentality that has perpetrated the master keying system for a century, even though such systems are well known to both 'smiths and
crims as being even easier to defeat than regular locks.
Anyone w ho's read the safecracking book has run across this too. Like when the use of acids for eating through a safe is mentioned, no details as to the acid systems used is
provided, so it seems as if the book is being informative, when in fact it is obscuring.
Another thing I hate is the "You have to have my previous book to know what I'm talking about in this book, but you'll need my next book to understand it completely" routine.
Anyone w ho's bought a ragner benson book know s about this one.
Why can't the fuckers just put out a revision of their first book to include all the new information? Or make the new book self-inclusive, with no need for any others to
understand the material. :mad: Oh, wait...silly me, I know why....to sell their next piece of drivel! :D
Also, there was no covert or lo-tek methods provided, nor forcible techniques. For instance, the use of 3M non-drying low-tack adhesive spray w ill defeat a tubular lock by
binding the pins to their shear plane when the legitimate user keys it. How hard would it have been to provide a paragraph about that technique in the book?
Also, some of his assumptions are wrong, such as when he's talking about the impressioning of an Abloy lock as being too long, and requiring too much light, to be suitable to
covert entry. BZZZZZ! Wrong.
Impressioning a lock, unlike picking it, can be done in steps, over a long period of time. If it takes an hour of time to impression an abloy, then that can be divided up into one
minute a day for 2 months, and w ill still get you the key.
Also, he leaves out that these types of locks are very often found in keysafes. Keysafes are those small metal boxes found outside of most large business, which are used to
hold the door and alarm keys ;), so that firefighters can enter the building without having to destroy the doors and locks in the process, and be able to turn off the alarm.
Also not mentioned was how the key to open these are common to other similar lock boxes within the local FD's operations area, meaning that the key used to open one will
usually open them all. :D Oh, what a merry time you could have then, eh?
Here's an idea...find every lock you can, fill it up w ith explosives, and see if you can blow it apart. Then compile a list of locks that can be blown up and write it up as a book
called "Instant Entry: Blow ing the Lock". Include the forumulations for NG and MEKP. How simple is that? :)
Though neither Punk Press nor Loompanics would print it, since they've been cowed by the anti-2nd law s that make the publishers liable for what their readers do with the
information, so they'd be too afraid of someone suing them for the lost fingers and such of the inevitable lames who can't follow instructions. Oh well, that's what the internets is
for anyways, right? :D

You are right. There are several possible reasons for a restriction of the topic, e.g. the problems of the publisher in 1999 ("hitman")... or maybe the author plans to write a book
that is similar to the old book "How to open locks without keys and picks", published by punky press (in the 70s) for all burglars in the w orld :D
Sorry, but I don't have the book any more.
nopschnek October 24th, 2003, 01:50 PM

Jelly, so you don't have the book physically, but you have the files on your computer, true?
I have been looking for that book a very long time, have found it on dc++, but the file w as corrupted. So could you put it on StreamLoad or something (other than the FTP) so
everybody could download it?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Exploding Ink Tab
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megalomania August 2nd, 2003, 09:05 PM

I b o u g h t a p a i r o f p a n t s t o d a y a t a m ajor department store. When I got them hom e I n o t i c e d i t h a d o n e o f t h o s e e x p l o d i n g
ink packs still affixed to the leg. After being relieved it didn t go off, I wonder h o w a m I s u p p o s e d t o g e t t h e d a m n thing o f f
m y new pants without it exploding or d a m a g i n g t h e p a n ts. I watched the sales girl use a special device at the counter, she just
pushed it in and it po p p e d o p e n . I s u s p e c t s o m e sort of m agnetic release.
I d o n t relish the 30 m ile drive back to the store t o return the thin g and if at all p o s s i b l e I w o u l d l i k e t o k e e p t h e i n k p a c k .
Does anyone have experience in dealing with these devices? Perhaps this is an opportunity for me to crack this sucker open
and see how it ticks.
Nihilist August 2nd, 2003, 09:28 PM

Sorry for linking to totse, but they have a little tiny bit o f info on it, and it seem s reasonably plausible. http ://www.totse.com/
e n / b a d _ i d e a s / s c a m s_and_rip_offs/howtoremoveink169909.htm l If I can find anything else, I'll post it.
EDIT: I have looked at a few different sites, an d t h e y s e e m to a gree that simply taking wire cutters, and cutting the wire that
connects the two tabs, will rem ove it without activating it.
GibboNet August 2nd, 2003, 10:00 PM

It depends what sort of ink tag it is...
You'll have to give a better description. My grilfriend works in a major deopartm ent store, and they have three types of ink
tags, plus a few different electronic tags. Nihlist is right, but if they're put on corre ctly, then there will be pra ctically no wire to
cut, they will be too close together on each side.
This is all because so m e p e o p l e c a n r e m o v e t h em in the store, and so they've started putting m ultiple tags on each piece of
clothing. O n larger items like prams, there can be 5 tag s, all hid den in different areas ! Checkout chicks often find the one tag,
r e m o v e i t , a n d a s s u m e it's the only one, where as there's often m ore, like you've found.
I personally heard that opening under water, so that even if it does break, the water dilutes it enough to m ake it harm l e s s ,
a n d n o n m arking. Ma ybe running water would be better.
A t o n e s t a g e , I f o u n d one of these devices (the things that rem ove the tags) left on a shelf in k-m art.... of course, knowing
how much trouble the store attendant would get in, m y GF took it to a counter. :(
nbk2000 August 3rd, 2003, 02:06 AM

There's several spring loaded ball bearings that engage a groove in the needle, to keep it locked on.
T h e " k e y " i s a m achined piece of steel, shaped to accept the cone-shaped part that acccepts the n eedle, that is highly
m agnetic and draws the bearings apart against the spring tension, releasing the pin. :)
mrloud August 3rd, 2003, 09:52 AM

The electronic and ink security tags I've pulled apart operate like NBK said; however, the ball bearings didn ' t e n g a g e o n t o a
g r o v e i n t h e n e e d l e . T h e b a l l b e a r i n g s i m ply grip the sh aft of the needle. Pulling the needle only pulls the ball bearings up
harder against the needle locking it tighter into place. Kind of a ratchet a r r a n g e m e n t .
I h a v e f o u n d that by continuously rotating the needle in the receptical, at the sam e time as pulling firm ly o n t h e n e e d l e p a r t o f
the tag, the needle will work its way ou t.
I ' v e a l s o s e e n single piece tags with a hinge at one end and one (or m ore?) 'teeth' that bight through the item to b e
protected. Can't help much with those I'm afraid :confused:
A-BOMB August 3rd, 2003, 09:27 PM

I've found th at if you cut apart the smaller side(the one that the needle goes into) you ca n just rem ove that bearings.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Forum meeting
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Cyclonite August 3rd, 2003, 09:05 AM

I understand that many forum members want to maintain their indentity, but I would think it would be interesting to meet up
in a bar and have a few drinks with members in the area if their is any. It would be nice to talk about a common interest and
make a "fireworks display" perhaps. I dont find too many people are proficient in my areas of interest or even have an
interest.
Im an American in Germany so its even harder to find people like that, ill be back in Germany in a few months.
What does everyone think about that?
mrloud August 3rd, 2003, 09:57 AM

I can think of several instances of this being suggested in the past few years. The general consensus is that it is a bad idea.
As much as it sounds like fun, there is too much to lose.
Arthis August 3rd, 2003, 10:06 AM

Maybe it would be more interesting for one person to organize, with the agreement of the city, a pyrotechnics contest... We
could all come to show our fireworks (or not, I don't make many myself), and we could find a way to meet us without arousing
suspicion.

Well I can understand the census of it being a bad idea because of the nature of the beast, but those who would approve of
the idea it would be nice. I dont have any reason to want to hid my identity that bad, more than likely it would be small groups
in quite a few areas.

A pyro contest would cost a huge amount of $ to put on, in Ca anyways.
yt2095 August 3rd, 2003, 10:36 AM

neat :)
we could even do it as a charity fund raiser for the local Police, I`m sure they wouldn`t take much convincing to attend :)
(I`ll bring the COBs) :D

I never said anything about doing anything illegal. It seems like the popular census is that being a member of this forum is
being a criminal. I understand what most of us are interested in could be illegal in some places, but our activities arent
tattooed on us. If I were to commit an illegal act I wouldnt advertise it as a action I took. Im just asking for a census on the
members that would be interested in meeting, having a few beers and shooting the shit.
yt2095 August 3rd, 2003, 11:03 AM

Don`t get me wrong, in an IDEAL world, it would be a great idea, I`de love to sit over a few cold ones and "chew the fat" with
other folk that share the same interests.
BUT.... not in this lifetime!
it just wouldn`t be a smart thing to do, it`s yet ANOTHER right that`s been stollen from us by the paranoid powers that be.
I agree IT`S wrong that we have to be somewhat "under ground" regarding what`s essentialy a victimless crime and it`s THEY
that say we`re criminals, but it`s NOT an ideal world, and so underground it has to be :(
knowledgehungry August 3rd, 2003, 11:03 AM

As much as i would like to do that, I am paranoid. Its not bad for you perhaps but you are EOD IIRC and therefore you have
some right to be involved in these type of activities. To be honest i really wouldnt mind, as i have not done anything harmful
to anyone, save some stumps and the like, and i do not intend to. I like explosives for the reason that i like them, it is
interesting and fun, i hope to be some sort of explosives expert when i grow up where i can play with the stuff and get paid for
it. What exactly does EOD do, and how did you get in it?
Cyclonite August 3rd, 2003, 12:59 PM

You have to enlist in the military to go be an EOD tech.
EOD school (EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE DISPOSAL) "trains officer and enlisted personnel of the Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force
in the best methods and procedures for performing explosive ordnance reconnaissance, identification, access, recovery, and
disposal (Blow up) of all conventional surface explosive ordnance, BIO-CHEM and nuclear weapons."
Check it out--->https://www.cnet.navy.mil/eods/command/
Sarevok August 3rd, 2003, 01:26 PM
The pig is awaiting, the bait is ready. Where is the fish? :rolleyes:
yt2095 August 3rd, 2003, 02:14 PM

Interesting! but I had to deny the certificate it asked for, I`m just as paranoid too!
not because I do anything wrong, but because THEY say what I do is wrong :(
One should only use FACTORY MADE fireworks, and making/possesing homemade varieties is Ilegal :(
I tried MANY!!! times to joins the military, they won`t have me, I`m too busted up (bones etc...) and didn`t even pass a
medical paper!
I have a spotless history, and even when I asked for perhaps warehouse or desk work during 2 wars (Falklands and 1992
Iraq) I was still turned down, so what chance does someone like me stand? NON at all!
and so... I do Fireworks and the occasional H.E to shift a stump or remove a garden shed and am forced underground because
of my interests :(
you`re one lucky son of a bitch! to get to do all this shit legaly!
hell! I can`t even get a civilian job due to my disabilities!
I WOULD however like to know, why YOU chose here as a site to frequent. I would have thought you`d have known all there is
to know re; HE and Pyro etc...? and that it would be against .Gov ethics to share any that you knew?
zeocrash August 3rd, 2003, 02:20 PM

Speaking of military EOD people, what happened to cameroneod.
we haven't heard from him in a while.
knowledgehungry August 3rd, 2003, 02:26 PM

I think NBK offended him, im not sure though. However I am curious as to why you are here also, cameron said it was part of
his job to be here, and i didnt quite understand what he was supposed to be doing here. Any help cyclonite?
vulture August 3rd, 2003, 03:35 PM

Well, I think EOD people would like to know which things can be made from scratch, as that are mostly the bombs they are
defusing.
If you know what's popular in the scene, you know how to deal with it.
And ofcourse the information on this forum is very useful for covert operations, eg how to make explosives with OTC
chemicals. Wouldn't surprise me if the CIA or whatever agency does covert ops these days includes some of the tricks of ours
in their handbooks.
Nihilist August 3rd, 2003, 03:39 PM

There is a small chance that in my near future(5-6 years), I could become rather wealthy, due to a business that myself and a
friend of mine started. Wealthy enough that is, to possibly purchase a small island. My chances of this actually happening
probably aren't that great mebbe 1 in 5. If however on the off-chance that it did happen, you would all be invited(explosives
of course would be legal in my little country:D ), however I just wonder whether or not anyone would actually be interested.
There is really no purpose to even try to hide your identity if you are a member of a board like this. the (insert 3 letter
agency) has a file a mile long on you i'm sure. If the 3 letter agency wanted to get you then they would. And yes, I do know I
sound exactly like a cop, saying all of this :p
knowledgehungry August 3rd, 2003, 08:52 PM

I dont know why we are all so paranod about meeting people from the forum, unless you are very good at covering your tracks
im sure everyone here could be picked up at any second. I am more worried about it being some normal person that wants to
get glory for catching a"terrorist"
I'll be there! What does your company do(general no need for specifics)
Nihilist August 3rd, 2003, 10:16 PM

We haven't started business yet so legally I can't tell you much, but it's related to E-bay and online auctions. I can't really say
much more than that.
nbk2000 August 4th, 2003, 12:25 AM

I think NBK offended him...
He offend me!
Cameron is still lurking around but, like all government workers, they take and take, but never give. I've noticed this of
people who say they're in the military. They come here and talk about trivial shit, but never contribute anything of significance
that adds to our knowledge.
Have any of them ever posted any info from their FM's and TM's here? Something we don't already have on the FTP? Is the
insider knowledge and skills being shared? Nope, not happening! I've gotten more information about explosives and weapons
technology from open-sources on the 'net than from all of our "military" members combined.
It's GIVE as well as TAKE people. :mad:

Oh sure, they'll come here and read everything we do and take it back to hoard in their nest, but lord forbid these greedy ants
are asked to share a bit of their sugar!
Cyclonite, I believe you mentioned something about some kind of breaching charge in a thread, and said what it could do, but
you never said HOW to make the charge. Why not try sharing something useful for a change, eh?
Anyways, I'm ranting, so everyone just ignore everything I just said at your own peril.

Rather than weet with the intention of meeting, why not get the forum t-shirt thing going, then advertise here that you'll be at
whatever event ? You don't say you'll be there, but if you go, you wear the shirt or whatever, so only forumites can identify
other forumites...
Therefore, seeing as no one would be stupid enough to bring anything else incriminating with them, and seeinga s no one
would actually talk without a mutual nod or something.. it could be fairly safe. I don't hide my identity too well, I have no need
to, but I doubt I'd turn up to anything like this, unless it was just down the road.
NBK, I may not be real military, but I am going to get some real military stuff uploaded when I borrow a scanner. I upped the
caltrops and things when i last had access to a scanner. I hope I can improve your opinion of forces personell.
Cyclonite August 4th, 2003, 07:33 AM

Govt ethics? Come on, I could give a shit about what the govt says is right and wrong. I have my own ethics and im not
careless enough to end up in jail. NBK, I share knowledge on any subject I have knowledge on. I dont know what inside info
your think im "hoarding" but to tell you the truth as far as information such as synth and homemade shit most senior
members know more about it than I. I know how munitions work and how to destroy them or render them safe also on chem
and bio. Id be more than happy to answer any questions I can and provide any information I have. I cant post the
publications I use, the pubs are secret and Id face a long prison term if I did that. Besides I dont want those to fall into the
wrong hands, its mostly how our shit and some foreign shit works and how to render them safe and dispose of. Oh and that
other EOD guy, that isnt his job. It is good to knowI guess but most of the IEDs we come across we x-ray and use the .50 cal
in the right part
Im here to learn and teach what I know...thats it. Military is way different from CIA FBI ect..... Theres not reason to be
paranoid of military. If you do something risky, dont get caught, be smart about it.
knowledgehungry August 4th, 2003, 10:20 AM

I think what Cyclonite is saying is that he knows how to use devices but not make them, why would he have to know how to
make them? He has access to things which dont need to be made, its like making Dynamite when you own a mine.

As far as making HE yes thats why im here so I can learn, but shape charges and improvised demo I can do pretty well
cameroneod September 2nd, 2003, 12:10 PM

It all depends on how much training youve had I suppose. Iv had quite a bit on clandestine manufacturing. Brit IED school
goes into it a bit also. Im with you though. Its not as if we can post TO's freely. That'd be stupid and a great way to get
admission to Leavenworth.
knowledgehungry September 2nd, 2003, 07:53 PM

what are TO's?
GibboNet September 2nd, 2003, 10:48 PM

Here in Aus, TO's are Training Objectives, they detail what lessons are taught in what order, and what each lesson covers etc.
There is a set of ordered TO's for each area, like First aid, surviavl etc.
From what he's saying, I assume he means what we call 'pams', Training Pamphlets. Such as this one here: Volume 3
Pamphlet 4: Demolitions, (RAE and assault pioneers), in the Manual of Land Warfare series.
cameroneod September 4th, 2003, 10:43 AM

You are correct. TO's = Technical Orders.
Cyclonite September 26th, 2003, 09:43 AM

Are you s erious? Pa ying some one to g ive you information tha ts a lready ava ilable? Getting to gether is not a bad idea to
some of us, those who are "legit" and those without g reat paranoia. I haven t don e anything that anyone could prove and I
work with explosives, its hard to find people with the same fascination and of the same caliber to BS with.
wrench352 September 26th, 2003, 10:27 AM

To Cyclonite:
You make it sound so dirty.But I guess your right going to an exotic locale and learning advanced lab technique while having a
kickass time for little more than a regular vacation is a terrible idea.I will delete my previous post and hang my head in
capitalist,beujois shame.
:p
Bert September 26th, 2003, 11:20 AM
Hmm.
Join the PGII (http://www.pgi.org) and go to a convention.
Being around 2,000 or so other people who

don't think you're odd for making things
that go boom is a good thing...
I'll be in Fargo ND next August. Anyone

who wants to, I'll see you there.
It's fun to be using explosives and

telling a bunch of cops and firemen
what to do instead of hiding under
a bush untill they go away.
And anyone who is at least 18 and wants

a LEGITIMATE JOB in display fireworksor/SFX
in the midwest US, contact me.
It is hard, dirty work. You won't get rich,

so it needs to be something you love
doing.

Are ex-felons prohibited from the trade?
Bert September 27th, 2003, 01:05 PM

NBK2000-
Ex-felons now need a variance granted.

I have a friend who got convicted of a MAJOR
felony 30 odd years ago. He's been completely
clean since, and had been working on shows and
manufacturing shells since. We're now in the process
of trying to get him a variance.
The law changed last May. It's such a new law that
there's very few precedents. We don't know how
it's going to go, and there's nobody we know who's gone
through the process. You can find the laws on the ATFE
web site-
Foreigners of any type also need a variance. We know

a Canadian guy who got one-
Send me an e-mail with a bit more info on your situation?

It can't hurt to ask. The form we have to have anyone with
"access" (ie- everyone) fill out is nearly identical to the
one you'd have to fill out to buy a pistol.
BTW, the reason I posted that offer is we're trying to

line up display crew for next summer. We want a list
of interested people by next Spring so we can plan
our training.

Let me guess...9/11, right?
I'm just curious about it. I'm not going to try for it since I've already choosen a career path in graphic arts, but I'm sure there
are others who could use the information.
You say this kind of job doesn't pay much, but how much does it pay?
Nothing against you bert, but while your offer of legit work may be tempting to some people, I'd have to advise everyone to
avoid taking it up.
Given the nature of the Forum, the post9/11 legal enviroment, and the general police/fed presence here, we have to RTPB
"Trust No One". But that's just me. If someone did end up getting a legit job, and not get arrested, after contacting bert, more
power to them. :)
Also, whatever you're using for typing your replies needs to stop being used, because it's wrapping the words short of the
windows width.
Type your reply into the forums reply window, or use notepad with wordwrapping turned off prior to copy/paste, to correct the
problem.

Yes, 9/11 and the stupid knee-jerk response by our elected officials. They wanted it to look
like they'd done something... All they did was create a nightmare for everyone in the explosives
and fireworks industries. Trust me, terrorists aren't looking to steal a few display shells. They
have better toys. You should know.
For a while, it looked like we'd have to make do with the fireworks allready in the country for
this 4th of July. Until enough of called our elected reps and told them we were telling all the
small towns that weren't going to have a 4th of July display because they'd made it impossible
to import or transport anything by rail, and telling them EXACTLY who voted yes for
this nonsense. And called every newspaper and news service and told them the same.
Somehow they made an exception for 1.3 G (Class "B") very quickly then-
All the Australian pyros who used to come to the US and work the Independence day shows got
screwed, they were foreign nationals and couldn't be cleared in time. Good old congress-
Saved us from those Australian terrorists!
Being a pyro is not something that is a years 'round pays-the-mortgage job for most in the US.
All of our crew are part timers, picking up a few days here and there except for me and my
girlfriend. And WE work other jobs, and crew for others in any spare time we have. You do it
because you like it.
If you want to earn money from fireworks, you'd better open up a roadside stand and
sell sparklers to the public. Better yet, import containers of 1.4G (Class "C") from China-
Those are the people making a living at it, mostly.
As far as being worried about making contact: Everyone should certainly stay within
their own "comfort zone". But as you well know, any of you who've posted here are allready
known to any US authority who cares about it. Which should you worry more about:
Posting the details of your chemistry projects and the shit you blew up with them or asking
about a legal job?
If you care to do a bit of research, go to PML and look at my posting history. If you're
really worried, contact the president of the PGII and ask him if I'm a fed. Ask the publication
VP the same, he taught me to make cylinder shells. Then contact a few Midwestern companies.
Try Precocious Pyrotechnics, J&M Displays, Island Fireworks, Fantasy Fireworks (The MN one,
not the NY one). Ask the current president of the local club (Northern Lighters, nlp.pyro.org)
Paul Marcio if I'm a fed. Ask the LaCross WI Skyrockers the same question. Or don't. I could
give a rat's ass.
And WTF are these RTPB's? You keep referring to them, but I'm unable to finds a
comprehensive list anywhere. I kind of get the gist of it, but I'd be interested in
seeing the full compilation.
I hope my margins now please you more...

If you care to do a bit of research, ...I could give a rat's ass.
OK, so maybe you're not a Fed, but what's to stop them from paying you a visit later on and leaning on you to tell them who
came to you via your "help wanted" ad on the Forum? Like you'd really keep your mouth shut about it...:rolleyes:
For all we know, you've already been leaned on and told to help to entrap some of us with the proverbial "offer you can't
refuse" of legit pyro work. How long would the feds have to wait for a forumite you hired on to do some experiments with
materials he obtained through his work with you? Not long, I'd think, and that becomes "diversion with terrorist intent" or some
similar bullshit.
We get people on here all the time asking for "help" in various forms, whether in person/telephone/etc for things that may or
may not be legal. That's always been a No-No here, because we don't want people getting involved with each other in things
that may turn illegal in one form or another, because it could easily come back on us as a "conspiracy".
Even if the forumite had never posted a thing about making anything remotely illegal, the very fact that they're a member
here could be construed by an aggressive federal prosecutor (and they're all aggressive now, thank to the Chief Asshole in
washington) as being a "conspirator" in (fill in the bullshit crime de jour) who's joined you in an attempt to obtain "ingredients
for making bombs" since (naturally) pyrotechnicians would have access to major amounts of chems that would otherwise draw
suspicious attention from chemical suppliers.
The vast majority of us here are just pyros who like things that go boom and are not "terrorists". But I don't think the
government views us the same way and would be more than eager to catch a few of us slipping or putting ourselves in a
positon where they could shut us down on some pretext supported by our own carelessness.
Under US law, if one person does something illegal alone, no one else can be held accountable for it. But, if two or more
people are involved in something together, and only one of them does something illegal, than they ALL can be charged as
conspirators, even if the others didn't knowingly help the person to commit the crime. Fucked up, but true.
I have the continued existance of RS.org to be concerned with, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, so
getting rid of someone who may cause problems for this site, and prevention of members doing something stupid that may
come back on the rest of us, is priority #1. Everything else (to me) is irrelevant.
What are you using to post with? It's even worse now than before. How hard is it to get it right like everyone else?
Searching RS.org using "RTPB" brings up 3 pages of hits. The older ones are more explainatory.
After you read it, ask yourself if YOU would want anyone else who's read it (most of us :D) working at your company, or having
the feds even suspect you might. ;)
metal dragon September 28th, 2003, 04:02 AM

NBK, could you please e-mail me the RTPB files?
++++++
No.
NBK
Anthony September 28th, 2003, 07:52 AM

Bert, please don't be offended, no one is throwing your offer back in your face and calling you a snitch, even though it may
feel like it.
It's just paranoia (usually healthy), people should be aware of what could be going on behing and otherwise friendly offer.
Not to say there is anything going on, but that of any offers made throughout time, one of them could be suspect.

"No good deed goes unpunished"
-Mark Twain
Got your RTPB's. I had searched and got a few of them piecemeal.
I agree that whoever wrote them isn't getting anywhere near my magazines.
Professional pyros I have known and worked with virtually ALL went through a phase of making bangs. Most have dabbled in
HE. After a while, they got bored with making holes in the dirt/taking out trees, etc. Then they moved on to more difficult and
rewarding things, ones where you can have an audience to appreciate your work. The other alternative is being a professional
blaster, where you actually spend most of your time making the holes to place your charges. That's just hard manual labor
with some danger thrown in.
If you're too paranoid to want to take advantage of the offer, consider it withdrawn.
I do suggest when you get bored with blowing shit up, you check out the more entertaining branches of the explosives field. As
I said before, we need people who actually enjoy the work for it's own sake because anyone else will quit.
And what, exactly don't you like about how my posts look? They look OK when I read them.

Your posts have either been going only about a third of the way across the screen, or going the whole width on one line, the
next being a word or two, whole width, word or two, repeat. But you've gotten right now so that all the lines go all the way
across.
Also, the offer can stand on your end, I'm just advising everyone on this end about the possibilities it may involve if they
choose to accept it. Devils advocate, that's my job. ;)
RTPB's...confusing words with actions...just like saying agatha christie must have been a killer since she wrote about it so
much.
How could someone get bored with explosives? You only get bored if you stay stuck at the same childish level of "blowing shit
up". There's so much more that can be done with energetic materials than just blowing up defenseless trees and rocks. I,
personally, have a much more diverse field of interest than just "blowing shit up", and have yet to become bored after almost
2 decades of E&W experimentation.
Jumala September 29th, 2003, 09:38 AM

I dont know much about law in the united states but a meeting in germany is no problem.
It i a fundamental right to meet other people and talk about whatever you like.
No question, you must not carry any illegal explosives or fireworks with you.
Electronic or printed media could be a good choise. Also nobody must fear to get busted only because you meet people in a
bar or you post at a forum. If the police wants you and they would have the evidence for any illegal acts you would be already
arrested. A meeting will not worsens the situation.
The laws are very different. In the Netherlands you can ask a cop for the way to the next coffeeshop to buy some shit and in
the US you can get 5-10 years only for take someone with you in your car who owns a few gram of it.
have yet to become bored after almost 2 decades of E&W experimentation
To NBK:
If you are experimenting with E&W about 20 years I think we must have somewhat a similar age and you know the time
before internet becomes popular. From where do you get your informations 20 years ago.
I got everything from internet. Here is a absolute E&W information desert. Also the fucking army couldnt give a minimum of
infos.

Were did I get my information, pre-net? The only place there was...books. What we get now free for the download I had to pay
$ for and wait weeks to get. And then it was usually crap, and there was no one else I could talk to about the subject, and so I
was stuck with figuring it out on my own.
I can honestly say I've learned more about E&W in one month here than I did in all the years previous to my time on the
Forum, simply because I can get feedback here that wasn't possible with just books. :)
Rhadon September 29th, 2003, 09:16 PM
The net gives us many opportunities, but we should not forget that it's important for yourself to be forced to solve problems
on your own. Some people have the mentality to rather ask others than to sit back and give their own head a try at first. If
you don't learn how to use your creativity you're unlikely to have what it takes when you really need it. Therefore the internet
should be considered as a source of information and inspiration IMHO and not as a medium that offers complete and thought-
out methods, at least if you want to do really well in your subject.

If you've ever read the "Uplift War" series by David Brin, then you know about how the Galactics are dependant on the
Universal Library to answer all their questions and are thus stagnant thinkers because they've stopped thinking for themselves
"Wolfling" humans, on the other hand, not having had access to the UL, developed their spaceships, weapons, and tactics all
on their own, retaining their ability to improvise and adapt, thus whipping ET butt! ;)
There's nothing wrong with starting out copying others, but that can't be the end all and be all of your skill set.
RTPB "Imitate, then innovate".

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > SC and LSC brisants and VOD
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View Full Version : SC and LSC brisants and VOD
FireBomb August 7th, 2003, 03:57 AM

OK heres my question what are the requirments for a SC using a copper liners and LSC.
Such as required brisants, VOD, exc.
Also what are some of the best explosives to use. (iTNP, AP, HMTD, RDX, PETN, TNT, HMX, exc. exc.)
Also on a side not what are some of the things you have penitrated with homemade SC how thick were they and what materials were they made out of (hardened steel,
alluminium, concreat, exc. exc.)
The reasion it's here in the cooler is because I'm not %100 sure it relevent to the Detonation and Demolition section
Ok well thats my question I hope to hear from you guy soon thanks a lot.
blindreeper August 7th, 2003, 05:00 AM

Definatly NOT HMTD for reasons you can search for. Probably avoid AP because it's a primary and you'd be better off with s secondary not just for stability but for a higher det
velocity. TNP is acidic so it may form picrates which are bad news. Thats about all I can tell you sorry.
Efraim_barkbit August 7th, 2003, 06:45 AM

The best explosive to use is the ones with the highest VoD.
if you have acces to all of the explosive you mentioned (wich I doubt) then use HMX, RDX or PETN. (in that order)
ANNM can be used, if you dont have anything more brisant, but from what I have heard, its VoD is a bit low.
AP can be used too, but dont expect (very) good results, and only use it in smallish charges. I used it in my first (only so far) LSC test:
I made a (not extremely serious) attempt with a LSC the other week, used a pice of Al as a liner, and some sheet metal as the cover. I used ~15-20g AP as the explosive. the
problem was that the "legs" wasnt equally thick (I guess 9 and 11 mm) but I wasnt to serious with that test anyway.
I placed the LSC on a ~5mm steel plate, with 2,5 cm stand off. when detonated, the plate got a fairly big dent (~10-15 cm across, 3-5 cm deep in the middle.).
In the middle it also had a 1-1,5mm deep, ~2mm wide "cut", with the same lenght as the charge.
The area around the "cut" were also "painted" with spots of aluminium. most of it on the opposite side from were the thickest leg had been. I guess that the effect of the liner
were wasted, and that it also interfered with the creation of the "cutting" shockwave.
EDIT: A retarded questionmark were hiding below my text...

The topic of SCs AND LSCs have been thoroughly discussed in the past, look for Tiny linear SC cones for instance. There are other topics as well, conduct a search and I belive
you will find quite a good ammount of info on the subject.
ANNM can evidently be used in LSCs at least don't know about SCs bit if your cone is good enaugh it will probably work then too.
I made an LSC with ANMM last year that cut a 6mm plate which was about 50-80mm wide, can't remember excactly. I made a failed LSC a couple of weeks ago to.
There is a good chance sensitized NM would allso work in an SC or LSC beacuase of it's uniform density it will make a perfect wavefront running through the LSC or SC if only
primed right. Most likely NM is better than ANNM for this application.
mongo blongo August 7th, 2003, 11:51 AM

I think that a castable mix of HMX and TNT or RDX and TNT (also known as "composition B") would be good. It will have a very high VOD because it will cast into a very high
density.
nbk2000 August 7th, 2003, 03:29 PM

It's called "brisance".
Also, the abbreviation is etc, not exc. As in "ETCetera", not "EXCommunicate".
The reasion it's here in the cooler is because I'm not %100 sure it relevent to the Detonation and Demolition section
Perhaps you're like a nestling who's afraid to spread his wings and fly by posting in the regular forum section? Perhaps papa bird (me) needs to kick you out of the nest (lock
you out of the WC) so you'll be forced to fly? :)
You've been here four months already...a little old to still be a nestling...though your grammer and spelling hasn't improved any...*sigh*...perhaps the nest is the best place for
you after all. :rolleyes: It was so much simplier when I could just ban anyone with poor grammer. Now we have a play pen for them...
Anyways, you want the highest VoD (sounds familiar ;)) you can get when constructing any kind of charge that relies on shaped effect. TNP (PA Picric Acid) or NG
(NitroGlycerine) would be your best bet, as I seriously doubt you could make anything stronger (like HMX).
Given your poor spelling, more advanced lab procedures are obviously out of your reach, let alone HEAVEN. :p

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C heerio guys
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View Full Version : Cheerio guys
yt2095 A ugus t 7t h, 2003, 04: 10 PM

I`m leaving also :(
Take care all and be happy, STAY SAFE (there`s a R EASON we were born with 10 fingers!)
m aybe we`ll catch up later, a few have m y em ail addy already, stay in touch :)
I`ll be rem oving my pics from here also, NOT to be spitefull (that`s not in m y nature) it`s just that leaving means leaving! and
NBK`s alread y threatened m e with a ban if I po st again within a week from 15 m i n u t e s a g o !
so you`ll probably see me in the "banned for life" section now :(
W e wish you all the best anyway, yes and you too NBK!
cheerio :)
nbk2000 A ugus t 7t h, 2003, 08: 41 PM

W hy's everyone got be a fuckin' dram a queen? :rolleyes: I tell you to take a breather for a week and you go and get yourself
banned.
I was sim ply telling you to shut up for a week because you're po sting in seem ingly every topic with inane crap replie s. Like in
the SD safe thread..."Buy your C D's from NBK, they self-destruct all by th emselves! :D"...funny, bu t irrelevant. And newbies (2
m onths is newbie, no m atter how many posts you have) don't have the luxury of posting inane cra p replies.
Kid Orgo was told the same thing, and for pretty m uch the sam e reason, he was sick at hom e and spending all his tim e h e r e .
200 posts + 2 m onths = too many posts in too short a tim e. W e've got respected m e m b e rs with less than 200 in th ree years!
You're averaging thre e posts a day, and none of it worth a dam n, so you need to take a rest.
And DON'T even try to say it's some difference in politics. You're posting whoring, and your post (http://www.roguesci.org/
theforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=42090#post42090) saying :
Your sitting alone in your Lab, your unable to m ove from A to B without the aid of crutches, you obviously can`t carry anything
unle ss it fits in your pockets, your bored out yo ur skull and there`s fuck all on TV!
Browsing the forum for nearly12 hours a day doing noth ing but reading, som e o n e p o s t s a n i d e a !
r e m i n d e d m e o f K i d O r g o a n d h i s s i t u a t i o n , s o I a p p l i e d t h e s a m e thing to you as I did to him. He 's still here, after taking a

week off, but you're not. If you had kept your m outh shut and taken a week off, you'd still be here, but you decided to get all
pissy about it. You had until m idnight to finishing your postings, but you burnt yourself instead.
This is why I don't disable peoples accounts before telling them about this sort of thing. It used to be people would get an e-
m ail telling them abo ut having their account disabled for a perio d of tim e a s p u n i s h m ent for post-whoring, and they'd get all
pissy by e-m ail to staff or other m e m bers, and they'd (in turn) get pissy at me or m e g a , a s k i n g f o r t h e f o o l t o b e l e t b a c k i n .
:rolleyes:
So now I let them get pissy in public at the Forum , so that everyone can see for them selves just what a lam e they actually
were, and no o n e d i s p u t e s m e ridding the Forum of them . I g a v e y o u t h e r o p e , a n d y o u c h o o s e t o h a n g y o urself with it, and
everyones happy. :D
Also, you HAVE violated the ru les by posting your sam e pissy reply in three different topics. Multiple postings is a rule violation.
But that's redundant now anyways.
I would be pissed about your taking your pictures down, but that's only if they were worth looking at in the first place, which
they aren't, so do whatever you will with them 'cause we're not going to m iss them . :p
The BFL is only for exceptiona l idiots. You're too run-of-the-m ill moron for your inanity to qualify for imm ortalizing in the BFL.
You shall suffer the fate of the typical m oron...vanishing... after crossing the event horizon of the singularity known as Cygnus
X-HED.
So welcome back to Kid Orgo, goodbye to yt2095, and m ay peace and order continue under my beneficant reign of terror. :D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Military explosive with insitu
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Tuatara A ugus t 7t h, 2003, 11: 55 PM

S o m e years back I worked for a co tha t m a d e m itlitary training equipm e n t . W h i l e t h e r e I h e a r d a b o u t a n e x p l o s i v e s y s t e m
where the de tonator was created in the m ain charge by a chemical reaction. The reactants were in the m a i n c h a r g e , a n d o n a
plastic or me tal stick that was poked into the m ain charge, the primary formed at the interface of the stick and the charge after
a b o u t 3 0 m i n u t e s , a n d t h e e n d of the stick provided som ewhre to tie your trip wire. The advantage of this system was that you
could carry a relatively insensitve secondary, and this inert stick thingy, to the target, then effectively create the detonator on
site, with lots of tim e to get away before the thing becam e d a n g e r o u s .
Has anyone heard of this stuff? I can see how it could work, m aybe by fo rm ation of som e really unstable picrates or som esuch
- p o s s i b l e b e c a u s e y o u ' d n e v e r h a v e t o t o u c h t h e d e t o n ator, or m ove it, or carry it.
Maybe someone has a better idea of how to do this.
Sorry if its a rather vague and rambly description, but thats all I recall, from a casual conversation with m y boss at the tim e.

Since it is formed on the spot, and you could set everything up before the detonator is created, you could use som e t h i n g a s
sensitive as NI3, which could be formed easily on the spot using the binary agents amm onia, and iodine crystals(which of
course, by th emselves are perfectly stable).
A-BOMB August 8th, 2003, 02:18 AM

I heard of something like that, it was a two part detonator, like 2 part ep o x i e s m ix A+B and get boom. Part A was m i x e d i n t o
the secondary and part B was on a metal rod that was k notched on the outside like a file to keep the part B on, a wire was
attached to the end of the rod. So whe n the two parts cam e in contact it m ade a very sencitive friction prim ary so whe the wire
was pulled on it would detonate. I thougt I saw it on a EOD site but am n ot sure.

I t d e p e n d s o n how you use it, and what primaries you u se. I personally wouldn't risk it.
If you place an already unstable prim ary in a tube to form , as soon as the crystals start to form they are going to be pressured
in the tube, and it's unlikely they will n ot explode. I know you're looking for an explosion, but when / if it forms, you don't
know what you've made. If it doiesn't react enough, you won't have enough to de tonate your explosive.
On the other hand, if you react too m uch, or the reaction is too quick, it could detonate prem aturely. If the charge doesn't go
off, are you going to pull the really unstable detonator out of a block of explosive ? You're risking not just your hand with the
det, but your life with the whole lot if it goes off when you touch it.
I think it's worse than pressing dets yourself, and we all know that's pretty risky. Still, it's your life. :rolleyes:
( Y o u r e x p l a n ation was fine however :) )

I think I would go with the strategy of throwing rocks at it until it detonates, and if it doesn't then you know(sorta) that it's
s a f e . You could also use a solution of aspirin+sulfuric, and add KNO3 as the other binary agent, to produce picric acid.
Efraim_barkbit August 8th, 2003, 07:52 AM

If your close enough to throw a rock at the explosive, then you will be close enough that the explosive can throw the rock
back!, and it can throw the rock hell of a lot harder than you!!
Better would be to shoot it with a rifle a couple of times from a safe distance, and if it didnt detonate then , walk up to it and
p l a c e a s e c o n d c h a r g e ( p r i m e d with a "normal" detonator) close to it.
At least that is what I should do.
Anthony A ugus t 8t h, 2003, 02: 18 PM

It's a booby trap, why are you going to go back to it (if you've planned properly ;) )
I think it's a fair question from a n a c a d e m ic po int of view. Saying it'd be unsafe to go back too is kinda the point of it. Finding
out how it wo rks is wh at we want, afterall, dets are the m ost dangerous part of explosives to handle/carry, effectively
elim inating them wou ld be useful!
knowledgehungry A ugus t 8t h, 2003, 04: 12 PM

W e l l I t h i n k n o o n e l i k e s t h e i d e a o f u s i n g a b o o b y t r a p that the y have n o clue if its going to work, so they would want to test it
first, but that would be tricky as they were saying. I think the idea of Picric m ixing with metal to form a picrate is the best, you
could have a huge charge of Picric, the n a d d a s m all am ount of m etal to the m iddle and you have it all rea dy to go.
Tuatara A ugus t 8t h, 2003, 06: 19 PM

At least Anthony got the point of this thread. It is mean t to be theoretica l. I thought it was an intriguing solution to a comm o n
p r o b l e m , and I want to know how it works, and I though t others m ight too. So exercise your chem knowledge and lets figure it
out!
T h i s i s a s i m p l e i d e a , b u t s i m p l e p e o p l e c o m e up with sim p l e i d e a s . . .
S u p p o s i n g m ovement of the device caused some, say, glycerine to fall upon a KMnO4 composition, that would ignite and set
off a prim ary. You get the idea...

Ba(ClO 3)2 + (NH4)2SO4 ----> BaSO4 + 2NH4ClO3
I s e l e c t e d a m m onium sulfate to shift equilibrium to the right because BaSO4 is insoluble.

Only problem I see is drying the detonator, because solid state reactions won't work very well.
Neat thing is that NH4ClO 3 can be explosive in concentrated solution and it WILL go off within a few hours of preparation. Well,
that is if it's pure and spread out into a very thin layer. O therwise it goes boom a l m o s t i m m ediatly.
I don't know how the BaSO4 is going to affect sensitivity though.
scarletmanuka August 14th, 2003, 07:45 AM

If you were using a AN slurry, you could add KMnO4 or a chlorate or Cr207 salt(maybe CrO 3)to form in solu tion sm all am ounts
of NH4MnO4 or NH4ClO3 which would b e very sensitive. O r m a y b e s o m e C o p p e r o r CuO to produce TACN. And in addition to
that, m a y b e a n u n s t a b l e c o m p o u n d t h a t w o u l d b e e a s i l y o x i d i s e d , t o p r o d u c e e n o u g h h e a t to Det theprima ries form e d . I
im agine that it would be pretty hard to get it failsafe though.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Microsoft - They're watching
you
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I_am_the_Black_one August 8th, 2003, 01:29 AM

http://www.microsuck.com/content/ms-hidden-files.shtml
After reading this im downloading linux, suffer billy......

Any one else know of flaws in M$ ?

Micro$hitties... theres a lot to complain about. In general, there are many many performace issues, as well as flaws... These
range from minor things like the fucking clock going haywire despite the battery being fine, to sudden crashes while working
on major projects.. (I know both from experiance... the damn shit pisses me off every time...) Also, the security sucks ass. I
went through the link you posted and tried some of the things.. My god! Seriously, some of the shit is very hazardous to a
pyros health! I went through and deleted a lot of the shit, and Im trying to work on a way of automating the process, since I
dont feel like fucking around with doing it all again...
Anyone with anything to hide, and uses microshits, needs to go through and remove those files...
Nihilist August 8th, 2003, 03:39 PM

As much as people love to hate microsoft, and windows, they aren't actually that bad. Yes, the history issue is definitely a
problem. However, as much as chemwarrior thinks otherwise, windows(NT and after) security is very good. There is only one
remote exploit for XP that I know of, which is the plug and play sploit, which was fixed in the first patch. For me XP is very
stable I have only had it crash mebbe once or twice in the 2 years I have been using it.

I knew about that, but calling it a flaw really is a euphemism. This "feature" was planned, probably to spy users' habits. The
same thing applies to Windows MediaPlayer: It will save what DVDs (files also, probably) you play and then send this
information to some internet server (most likely one of Microsoft's).
I have often thought about using Linux instead of Windows, but the problem is that there are so much applications you want
to use and will not be able to get for Linux. Perhaps there exists a Linux version, but it's not available on the internet and who
wants to pay for software...
The best solution for this problem could be not to use any software from Microsoft instead of Windows itself. Zoom Player
(http://www.inmatrix.com/files/zoomplayer_download.shtml) is an excellent substitute for Windows Media Player and it's totally
free. Star Office (http://wwws.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/6.0/) can be used instead of MS Office, unfortunately this one is
not free, though. Opera (http://www.opera.com/download/) is a fine webbrowser and The Bat! (http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/
download.html) is in many ways better than Outlook. My last two recommendations contain ads if they are unregistered.

Rhadon-
Im not sure where I saw it, but if Im not mistaken there is a program that will allow you to run most windows based programs
on Linux. Ill see if I can find it later for you, and then Ill add a link.
Also, concerning security, there are quite a few.. The plug and play one is minor at best, but some of the security concerns are
the saved history files, saved e-mails, etc. Its one reason that the branch of the gov my dad works for (not really a branch..
secure communications to be more precise) no longer uses windows for ANYTHING. Too many security/ reliability issues. Its the
reason they now use Linux.
I myself use windows XP, mainly because Im too damn lazy to bother with setting up a new OS and then reconfiguring all my
files... I myself dont have many security issues, but reliability... the damn system crashes for no damn reason have the
time... hell, its crashed more than once in the middle of the night doing absolutely nothing! I dont keep extra files open, I
dont have tons of background programs running, and I have a fast PC so there is no damn reason for it! Also, I was browsing
the site and they are right about the files taking up far too much space... Throughout XP there are numerous files that have
absolutely no purpose whatsoever, and just take up space.. I know because Ive managed to delete over 300 megs of totally
useless shit, and Im not talking about programs or readme files, just shit that exists. Also, Ive ran across several files that
contain nothing at all, and are just black notepad files, or the like. If I come across anymore, Ill post them here so everyone
can delete the useless shit.
peterthesmart August 8th, 2003, 04:02 PM

I've also realized with the disk cleanup utility how it says it can free up x number of space. Everytime I run it, it never frees up
as much space as it claims it can. I've checked all the boxes for items to be deleted. I decided to take matters into my own
hands and delete all the files in the temp folder. Amazingly enough it screwed up several of my programs.

I said REMOTE exploits, there are tons of local sploits for windows, including the ever popular unpatchable shatter attacks, but
the only way you can exploit a local vulnerability is if you already have an account on the system, which most of us won't have
to worry about. Plug and Play is the only remote exploit(not including 0days). However privacy is definitely an issue while
windows stores files on you, it most definitely does not send them to a remote server like rhadon said(not to say that they
won't start doing this with the implenentation of TCPA, because they will). Another thing is that if the cops confiscate your
box(the only way the hiddne cookies are even relevant) then unless you have been deleting, AND binary overwriting all of your
files, then all of that work you did to "erase" all of your history has been worthless.
Tuatara August 8th, 2003, 06:33 PM

Chemwarrior, I believe you are thinking of Lindows - a shell for linux that provides Windows API interface for windows apps.
I use Win2k professional - the autoupdate feature seems to add another security patch every two weeks or so :eek:
I don't use outlook - too many viruses target outlook. I use BVRP's Phone Tools, mostly because it came free with my
modem, but also because it is fairly oddball - e.g. it doesn't interpret HTML, just displays the source code.
I must trawl through my drive too, not because I'm worried about security, but because I want my F***ing disk space back
:mad:

I think your right Tuatara... and I believe there is another one... Ill take a trip into MicroCenter and browse their Linux
products hopefully before I leave for my cousins wedding tommorrow.
Also, isnt anyone even vaguely worried about those auto updates? I mean.. has anyone ever bothered to search one out and
investigate whats been downloaded? Like Nihilist said, with TCPA, its very difficult to really know what your downloading... I
myself have disabled the autodownload feature, as I much prefer to just download indivdual updates for the programs Im
using and at least have some clue as to what the hell my comp has on it...

TCPA isn't implented yet, and it won't be for a few years. However autoupdate can be turned off in windows services, and there
are some other interesting services that you will want to turn off(such as the one that allows microsoft to edit your registry
remotely and other such little gems)

I hadnt meant it had been implemented yet... I was only refering that base software could be being installed for the future
intention of TCPA.

Microsoft and Windows aren't the only problem. I have ripped a German web site two years ago.
This site (with the nice name "Phonehome") had listed more than 100 spy programs and described,
what was transferred .... programs from "A" like ACDSee or Acrobat Reader 5.x via
"C" like Corel Draw or "M" like Macromedia Flash Player or "W" like WinACE, WinAMP, WinRAR,
WinZIP or WinOnCD up to "Z" like ZoneAlarm.
All you need is a good firewall, not another operation system :)

However privacy is definitely an issue while windows stores files on you, it most definitely does not send them to a remote
server like rhadon said [...]
I didn't think up this piece of information by myself, as you might or might not think. Although I'm unable to find my original
source right now, the following link and excerpts should be enough for you to believe me...
TomCat's Spybase (http://www.tom-cat.com/spybase/spyalert.html)
Excerpt from the privacy statement of Windows Media Player

"The Player, as determined by options that you control, can use your Internet connection to do things such as: Retrieve media
information about CDs, DVDs, and other kinds of digital media files from WindowsMedia.com to create an enhanced playback
experience.
Send configuration information to content providers to assist them in providing better services to you.
Send anonymous usage information to Microsoft to help us improve the Player and related services.
Additionally, the Player can store information about digital media and Web addresses (URLs) that you visit to make it easier
for you to access the files or URLs again."
Translation of an excerpt from the German magazine "Spiegel (http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/technologie/

0,1518,184445,00.html)"
Windows Media Player 8 creates listings of played files without the knowledge of the user and and sends them online to
Microsoft.
I don't think that MediaPlayer 9 doesn't do this anymore...
---------------------------------------------------
When I read Chemwarrior's post I thought that he was referring to Wine, a program which lets you run Windows programs
under Linux. I don't expect it to run anything but simple applications though, so complex programs like 3D Studio MAX still
wouldn't be available under Linux (but I didn't try it out).

Yes, it is capable of doing those things, however it does not do them on it's own, or by default. All of that stuff only happens if
the user instructs it to do that(or so they say).
BTW: I have an iso of 3DS max 5 if you want it.
Spudkilla August 9th, 2003, 01:13 AM

Bah. Nihilist, Windows NT sucks. I could break into that crap in a heart-beat. All you need to do is scan a range of IP
addresses (not from your computer of course) with a nifty little program called X-Scan. It will tell which IP addy's are running
NT, and the log-in name. It also tells you if it is passworded or not... if not, yee-haw! Just connect to their computer (with IE
for the people who can't find anything else, like remote networking utilities) with the user name, and you are in. Then you
install some other nifty programs, like a Serv-U daemon, and use psexec to execute it, or you can make a .bat file so that it
is executed every time the computer is booted. I would go into details about making the computer a bot for IRC... but that's
not the point. The point is, what the hell is this Plug and Play bug anways? ;) ;)
Oh, and Nihilist, I'll take that ISO...

I'm sure you can find the plug and play bug on securityfocus, or bugtraq. However, anyone who turns off netbios defeats your
nefarious X-Scan hax0ring.
As for the ISO email me, i'll dcc it to you in IRC or something.(PS: I've got maya too, so pick which you want)
Also, if enough ppl want those ISO's i'll upload 'em to the FTP. So just tell me, cuz they are very big, and I don't wanna waste
that much space if nobody wants them.
a_bab August 9th, 2003, 04:19 AM

Spudkilla, having a windows NT without a password means that you deserve to be hacked. Having a password will change a
little bit the things. Especially if you log of without admin rights. I want to see you then how you hack it !

Do you still remember that older versions of Microsoft Word and Office had stored a GUID
(Globally Unique Identifier = a serial number with the MAC (Media Access Control) address
of your network card) in their documents?
This "fingerprint" in the Melissa macro virus resulted in the arrest of the programmer
of that virus.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2233931,00.html
If you want to write a blackmail letter or create a PDF file for the forum and
if you don't like to have the serial numbers of your CPU, hdd, graphix card,
monitor etc. in the document, don't create it on your own computer :D
Rhadon August 9th, 2003, 09:43 AM

BTW: I have an iso of 3DS max 5 if you want it.
For Windows or Linux? I do already own the Windows version, so only the Linux version would be from interest for me. In any
case, thanks for the offer.
You said that Media Player would only send the information we were talking about if the user instructs it to do so, but I think it
might probably the other way around and it does it unless the user tells it not to do. Who would explicitely allow MediaPlayer to
send that personal information to Microsoft? Not many except for Bill, I suppose :).
Anthony August 9th, 2003, 10:51 AM

I wish I was l33t enough to use something other than windows :(
Inexplicable crashes: Eliminated many of these by not having a store-bought PC (first and only). Poor case design meant the
HDD was very prone to knocks. Also, the store (TEMPO is this case) couldn't set up a pc properly. Even as a n inexperienced
newb, formatting and reinstalling windows meant things ran much more smoothly.
Using a UPS with surge protection has greatly reduced the number of crashes I have, crashing in the middle of the night whilst
idle sounds like a power issue to me.
IME windows grows. When you install it, it's about 300mb, 6-12 months later your windows folder is usully pushing a gig. Waste
of disk space and the machine runs shagged.
A friend has an athlon xp2000 machine running win2k, my megre k62 550 running win98 absolutely canes it in bootup/down
time. Evening running a new installation of win2k mine is still faster. Under a fresh install of win98 my machine will power off
with 2secs of selecting shutdown. Not too bad for a machine using >5 year old parts.
BTW, what the hell happened to msconfig in win2k pro? Are these controls located elsewhere?
GibboNet August 9th, 2003, 11:20 PM

Lost on me. I've used Win2000 Pro for a few months now, and I still haven't found a way to edit the programs that run on
startup. Admittedly, I haven't spent a lot of time on it, but I'll look now.
I'm installing RedHat Linux as soon as it arrives from a friend. Starting off with a dual boot system, I'll switch over to linux
completely once I'm ready. I'll be using the GUI, but it's still going to give me a lot more control than windows, and a lot
better features. These days you can get a program for pretty much everything on Linux. WineX might be a better idea, as it
has DirectX support.
I'll get back with some info on msconfig. It's really bothered me too.
Who wants to make a batch file (.bat) that deletes all those files ? It wouldn't be too hard surely. A batch file would work, as
it's accessing them through DOS right ?
I dont know Gibbo.. I had that same idea, but as the site says, those files arent accesible while the windows OS is running...
I would offer to make one if I had any real knowledge of writing batch files... which I dont:(
nbk2000 August 9th, 2003, 11:41 PM

I get a hoot out of the people I talk to who think that, because they've got XP, that they've got the latest and greatest O/S
ever. :rolleyes: What fools.
I use 98SE, and have for several years, and am completely happy with it. I can use all the software out there, can modify the
system to my liking, and don't have to worry about calling the Ministry of Truth Headquarters in Seattle to get a new validation
code for my O/S whenever I change a part in my computer (which I do often), nor about my O/S self-destructing if I don't.
It does tend to get sluggish after a few months, so that's why I made an image of the O/S right after a clean install from CD,
with all the neccessary drivers and essential programs installed. Now, if the computer starts giving me shit, I do a reload of the
drive image, and have a brand spanking new O/S in less than 20 minutes, with everything already installed. :)
It's a GB reload, but that's everything included, like PS7, Acrobat, Premiere, etc. Saves MAJOR time. :D
Oh, and buying a store bought computer is asking for trouble. Not only do you NOT have a copy of the O/S, rather getting
those lame "Recovery" discs, but you also have no way of getting the drivers for the hardware installed in the computer without
playing detective, reading machine ID's, searching the net, and hoping you can find a working executable for it. :(
Build it yourself, and you not only know what every part is, and have the drivers and discs for it, but you can upgrade to
anything you want, without being held hostage to an outdated computer because it won't work with anything that it didn't come
with when you first bought it.
Yeah, MS hides shit all over your HDD, and phones home. So what's so fuckin' new about that? That's a given man. And
software based firewalls can't protect you from the O/S spying on you.
The O/S is the foundation on which the firewall is built upon, and can only monitor anything else that runs on the O/S, not the
O/S proper, since that runs at a much deeper level.
Don't want to be snooped on? Unplug. Simple, isnt' it? If you're not on the net, then the data can never leave your machine,
making snooping impossible. :)
Dual computers makes this easy. One P.O.S. computer is hooked up to your internet connection, and has a removable HDD
tray or ZIP drive installed.
You then, when done surfing, transfer anything over onto your Uber-Computer using the removable media, after scanning for
virii and trojans. This way, the computer with all your "naughty" bits is never exposed to the online surveillance of Big Bill.
peterthesmart August 11th, 2003, 09:15 PM

Does anyone think switching to a mac system would eliminate most of these problems? They're supposed to be comming out
with a 64 bit system that is supposed to be better.
nbk2000 August 11th, 2003, 09:51 PM

According to Bill Gates, 5% of windows machines crash twice a day, 10% every day. :rolleyes:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1210067,00.asp
This, to me, means that either the majority of the users are total morons (highly probable) who don't know how to use their
own machines OR windows XP is a kludgy piece of shit (also highly probable).
Why do people have problems with the thing? When I first started using it, it would often crash, but that's because I didn't
know how to use it at that time. Then I read up on the subject, practiced/practiced/practiced, and have now mastered my
machine and hardly ever have a problem with it.
*nix geeks like to say how their machines haven't crashed in years. That's good, but you'll also never be able to play Quake
Arena, use Photoshop, nor use any of the many thousands of other programs that are ONLY available for windows, so who's
the geek now? :D
Mac...better....HAHAHAHAHAAA!
Jumala August 12th, 2003, 09:02 AM

I use also Win98SE and I think that it is somehow self-destructing. Always after some month without any problem it
degenerates more and more and than the problems occur again.
The last crash was the loss of TCP/IP and my ISDN drivers with no chance to reinstall it.
I must also reinstall my last backup image and it works perfect again.
But it is a shitload of work to reinstall all the new drivers and updates, saveing the emails and so on.
Win NT or Win2K is much more stable. But savety is nowadays also zero. Using ERD-commander you can easy overwrite the
admin password with your own.
For XP users exists a cracked version including servicepack 1 where no registration is needed.
TCPA - I read in Ct that the next step of pentium 4 provides the first TCPA features.
To kill spyware I use spybod (http://www.safer-networking.org/)
and as firewall this outpost (http://www.agnitum.com/products/outpost/)

Both works pretty good and it is for free.

I agree completely with nbk, except about the firewall issue, a 3rd party firewall will work perfectly for filtering anything that
windows tries to send out(yes, microsoft CAN make it so that the firewall couldn't do that, but even they wouldn't go that low,
yet). Right now I run two machines, one winXP and the other redhat linux, both are very stable, I have never had linux crash,
and XP has only crashed a few times(I use it about 50 times more often then linux). Mac's new 64-bit system is utterly
worthless because nothing uses a 64-bit instruction set yet, so it provides absolutely nothing more than a catch phrase(not to
mention the fact that AMD came out with one before mac did, and mac advertised theirs as the first one).
Rhadon: sorry, it's for windows, but I also have maya and lightwave if you want those(for windows only).
darkdontay September 15th, 2003, 06:49 PM

http://www.freeos.com
also
http://www.shellcity.com
They offer links to free OS'es and also some Bio's of them..
If you are looking to test drive any other Boxes.
Though it is going to come to a point where inorder to run M$ you are goign to have to sign over you soul.
chokingvictim78 September 25th, 2003, 09:51 PM

This certainly does not help a person's paranoia complex. I mean, suppose one were to look at a lot of porn, and do a lot of
research on the lab synthesis of explosives, he's not doing anything illegal, so unless said person can be hurt by the release
of the porn he looks at, or is on trial for supposedly blowing something important up, it's not really a problem, right? Common
sense would dictate that it's not really that much of a problem unless you have something seriously illegal to hide. And
besides, I'm fairly certain that Micro$oft gets so much information on customers, and so much illegal activicty, that they would
not take the time or effort to weed out all of the sites you in particular visit, unless they have a specific reason, such as a
lawsuit or something similar. I assume it is for data on what is popular/ect., and all of the information is grouped together, as
opposed to an individual file on each user. And a person would not have to worry about the average joe snooping around on
his computer, such as parents, because they would not know where to locate the files, as long as he uses Window Washer to
cover his obvious tracks, right?
Lil_Guppy September 25th, 2003, 09:55 PM

chokingvictim78
But the point is that they shouldnt be doing it in the first place...
chokingvictim78 September 25th, 2003, 10:18 PM

Oh, I'm very aware of that. Just kind of a self-affirmation that I shouldn't have anything to personally worry about ;) . But
really, our rights are trampled on every day. This is just a small sample of the problem. You can really only do so much to
stop it. Because at the end of the day, did deleting all of those files really make your life any more private? Your credit card
purchases, checks written, phone conversations (in some cases), and everything else you do is recorded. You could pay for
everything in cash, always, and you could still be linked to a purchase, just by security camera tapes, which you can't do
anything about. All they have to do is find the time of the purchase (recorded in the register, or someone recalls you buying
industrial strength drain cleaner, or insisting on fuel pellets made with hexamine), cross reference it with the timestamped
tapes, and there you go, your pretty mug cemented to the purchase. Just something to think about.
IDTB September 25th, 2003, 11:37 PM

I highly suggest everyone switch to Linux. My personal flavor is Mandrake, beautiful operating system. Not only does it run
flawlessly without any crashes, but it's also free and so is the software that is for linux(for the most part). NBK has a good
point though(as usual), you can't run Quake Arena or Photoshop. Even so, they have absolutely fantastic linux versions of
software that does the EXACT samething with the exact same functions and features. You don't have the gaming aspect as
much, but when it comes to software you are set.
One problem: Learning Linux takes time and patience. You have complete control over the operating system, so you must
have the knowledge to control it in the first place! Everything is manual, no fancy installers. So, if you plan on switching from
Windows to Linux you best be devoted to switching. It's a whole new(better) world from Linux.
James September 28th, 2003, 04:36 AM

Actually, I don't see any reason why the fancy installers, eyecandy games couldn;t be built on top of Linux. Windows is not
some amazing OS that automagically makes everything work. Of course you would wind up running into idiots who do
everthing as root, have the telnet port open and no password.
jelly September 28th, 2003, 04:54 PM

I highly suggest everyone switch to Linux
Sounds like "my Amiga is better than your Atari ST" :p
I would suggest this: grab a good boot manager like v-com's "system commander",
create some primary partitions (bootable as a disk drive C:) and then install
all the operating systems you need... pure ms-dos 6.21, os/2, solaris,
windows 1.0, 1.02, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, 98SE, NT, 2000, XP, an emulator
of IBM's mainframe operating system MVS or whatever.
Most people buy a computer to execute certain application programs and not certain operating systems.
The OS seems to be the most important part of a computer only for fanatics :)
Ahriman September 29th, 2003, 07:32 AM

I agree, jelly, and thats what I have done (although not with all those OS's ;) ). I use Mandrake 9.0 for most of my work, and
reboot into Win2K for gaming, and certain things I need it for for work.
I found that Linux is kinda difficult for someone to get into who has only used Windows, but Mandrake was the best way for
me to learn, I did install Red Hat for awhile, but went back to Mandrake.

A few people earlier in this thread were talking about Windows NT security.
a_bab, it is fairly easy to to get the administrator account password on an NT machine that you can log onto with a normal user
account (Some friends and I are always stealing the admin pass at school and causing the Sysadmins all sorts of problems,
we never do anything that would cause a serious problem though, just cause major annoyances such as taking over small
unimportant parts of the network's server and setting them so that they can only be accessed by students and not teachers or
admins).
All you have to do is install a keylogger of some sort, this can be a software one such as STARR Pro, a hardware one such as a
KeyKatcher, or a modification to the registry and the logon process so that all logons are recorded to a text file. Keyloggers
are easier to use and more effective if the same usernames and passwords are required for other things as well as logging on
(such as sending email, using the network or internet, etc.)
Once you have administrative access, you can create some new administrator accounts in case they change the passwords to
the old ones, then you are free to use programs such as KerbCrack, or Advanced NT Security Explorer to get the usernames
and passwords of general users. You can also use programs such as CHown to change the ownership of files. You are also
able to access any computer, drive, or other device connected to the network by using NET USE batch file commands.
There are also other ways to gain administrative access to an NT computer such as starting it with a boot disk with WinKey on it
(changes the administrator password to 12345). Or (the most difficult way, and can't be done if the machine has Syskey
protection) stealing its SAM files and loading them onto another NT machine that you already have admin access to, then
cracking the usernames and passwords in the SAM file.
the Jackal October 25th, 2003, 12:43 PM

i think the bigger issue is to make sure that there is never a precident set which allows companies to spy on computer uses.
the way i see it right now is that if microsoft wanted to spy on people using windows than can and will. but what they cannot do
is say that they are or use that information because it would implicate them in a massive privacy invasion scandal. how many
more people would install linux then? basically, it seems as if its more of a risk to spy on people than to accept the loses and
compensate by charging idiots who buy software more.

Oh and by the way, I would just like to add that there are about 5 different "invisible" accounts built into windows XP by
microsoft so that they can get into your computer. These accounts don't appear in the standard Accounts window in the control
panel and microsoft claims that they are for "Technical Support Purposes".
These accounts can be viewed and disabled (but not deleted, microsoft has made sure that you can't do that) by starting the
user manager file in your windows system directory. It will be called "lsusrmanager.exe" or something along those lines.
mr.pyro November 4th, 2003, 01:52 AM

That really p.o. me. I saw the article and cleared my cache, but noone has said here how to really delete files, no recyle bin
b.s. I know that they arent really gone. How do I get rid of that stuff?
IDTB November 4th, 2003, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by mr.pyro
I know that they arent really gone. How do I get rid of that stuff?
I reformat every 3months and do a clean installation of Windows. Not only to delete the files, but also to keep my computer
'healthy'. Since Windows is user-friendly/automated there's too many processes going on that you're not aware about. When
Windows can't appropriately assess the problem it can leave little glitches that accumulate overtime.
I'm not sure if it's a fact, but It's my 'theory'. Can anyone validate this with me?

Yes, windows does start to fuck up after a while, mostly due to the registry getting filled with crap that shouldn't be there.
Micro$hit even recommends that you reinstall Windoze every year.
mr.pyro November 4th, 2003, 08:17 PM

But how do you reinstall xp when you need the little code thingy. And how do you keep all your programs from deletion?
Flake2m November 5th, 2003, 08:25 AM

I have had windows installed on this Computer for about 2 months and it is already starting to fuck up. Since my HDD was
partitioned by windows, re-installing it would mean that I'll lose all the data on my 120gb HDD unless I spend a day backing
up everything.
As for the key system, well it is just rediculous. When I first installed the OS as a replacement to windows ME (the worst OS
ever created) the key system worked fine, but obviously Micro$hit didn't think that people reinstalled there software. When I
had to reinstall XP the key system just went to hell. I used a "backup" CD to install windows, so I really cant complain that
much.
grandyOse November 5th, 2003, 11:51 AM

90% of what you guys are discussing is way over my head, so I hope someone will help me. I'm running win98SE. The only
time I used IE was to download netscape. The first thing I did when I ran netscape was to get and install zone alarm. So I
think I'm safer than the average bear. I also just got a freeware spyware remover. Anyway I have a SHITLOAD of stuff in
win\temp. A lot of this seems to be acrobat and all the crap it needs to run, but there is a whole lot more, including executable
programs, that I just don't understand. I want my disk space, I want my computer to run better, and I am concerned about
privacy. Can I just trash this stuff, and take out the garbage in a week if everything runs ok? Is there a better way to find out
what this stuff is?
Also, If I defrag, then download a bunch of useless files to fill up the HDD, then delete the usesless files, haven't I efectively
wiped the disk of recoverable files? A couple of runs of this should leave nothing but fragments that are useless to all but the
most intreped FBI analyst, right?

Can I just trash this stuff, and take out the garbage in a week if everything runs ok?
Yes, that'll work. Restart your computer before doing so if some files cannot be deleted because they are currently in use. You
don't even need to keep the files in the recycle bin IMO.
Also, If I defrag, then download a bunch of useless files to fill up the HDD, then delete the usesless files, haven't I efectively
wiped the disk of recoverable files?In theory this would work but you would need to fill your HD to the last byte to be sure that
you've wiped everything. It's much better to use a program that wipes your files, e.g. PGP. Just tell it to wipe specific files or to
wipe free disk space and it will effectively delete your stuff. I'd suggest that you set the number of passes to seven or more.
The security given by that method should suffice your needs.
Edit: The following does only apply to Windows XP

Don't forget to clean up the second temp directory, which should usually be located in C:\documents and settings\<your
username>\<"local settings" or something along these lines>\Temp.
Anthony November 5th, 2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Rhadon
Don't forget to clean up the second temp directory, which should usually be located in C:\documents and settings\<your
username>\<"local settings" or something along these lines>\Temp.
Doesn't that only apply to Win2k and newer?
Everything in Temp should be just that - temporary, not needed by anything. It's a dump folder for extracted compressed files
which then install and then copy everything they need to a permanent folder. Unless you've specifically installed something to
the temp folder, then you shouldn't have any problem.

Doesn't that only apply to Win2k and newer? Exactly.

I only questioned it because grandyOse said he was running 98SE.

That's right. I wanted to write my post as general as possible so that it does apply to all Windows versions, but I was in a hurry
and forgot to mention that the last paragraph does only apply to XP. I corrected it now.
tmp November 23rd, 2003, 04:32 PM

I'm an experienced programmer with many years on mainframes before Bill Gates
and the personal computer came along. Now that I've learned about PCs, I seem
to spend most of my free time cleaning up software, installing hardware, and
answering questions for non-programmers. Very few software installations are
straigthforward as the people who design some this shit forget to tell you about
the two dozen substeps between steps 1 and 2. This is a pain in the ass, and
frustates the person I'm trying to help. Support for most software ranges from
slim to none depending on the vendor. I've often wondered if quality testing is
ever done. Anyway, I installed Windows XP Professional Edition on my computer
and it generally runs well. The worst Microsoft O/S I ever used was Windows 98
First Edition. That piece of shit crashed frequently and the longer the computer
was running the more unstable it became. Good Riddance ! Run 'msconfig' and
disable things you don't need. Remove items from the startup folder that you
don't need. This helps prevent crashes as well as freeing up system resources
for other applications. Once in a while try defragging your hard drive(s). This has
the effect of writing over sectors and will make it more difficult for anyone
attempting to access information that you've deleted. Use a removable hard drive,
like Iomega's zip drive, to store information you don't want getting out.
Above all, follow NBK2000's advice: When you're not on the net, disconnect
yourself when you don't need to be there !
vulture November 23rd, 2003, 06:27 PM
XP might not be a great OS, but it's much better for network security than windoze 9x, because it uses the same LANmanager
as Win2k.
Hacking into windoze 9x PCs is very well documented, alongside with lots of scriptkiddie tools.
Securing a windoze 9x PC is like using a sieve to stop water flowing.

vulture, all the Haxor tools that were designed for Windows NT will work on XP (almost exactly the same security) but not on
9x. There are loads of programs for NT password stealing that will work with XP, I have uploaded some of them to the FTP so
you can try it if you want.
The program "Advanced NT Security Explorer" is probably the best example, download it from the FTP and try it on an XP
computer, you will be given a list of the usernames recorded in the memory/registry and you will then be able to set about
cracking them (20 mins max for a 6 letter password).
Of course, you need administrative access to a computer to use this, but then hey, what are keyloggers for? (that's why I have
administrative access to my schools system, which BTW runs both NT and XP but no 9x)
tmp December 2nd, 2003, 11:16 PM

I just spent 2 hours restoring a friends computer after downloading from
Microsoft's website. It was 1 of those recommended downloads for Windows
XP Home Edition that was supposed to attack adware/spyware. Instead it
screwed up his computer badly, tying up the processor most of the time.
At the same time it blasted his NetZero High Speed Internet software as
well as corrupting various system files. Just wanted to pass this along.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > A Wild Idea for Tactical Insertions...
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View Full Version : A Wild Idea for Tactical Insertions...
MrSamosa August 12th, 2003, 01:39 PM

This idea is so whack, that I dare not post it in "Tools, Techniques, and Plans" or some other Forum; so it will go in the Water Cooler. Still, I see it as being remotely possible,
so I am interested in your input...
Many guerilla groups across the world have access to rockets and missiles, whether bought from other countries (China, Iran, Russia...), or manufactured on their own (such as
the "Qassam" and "Banna" missiles by HAMAS). Furthermore, many of said guerilla groups have shown a willingness to perform suicide operations.
So I was thinking: you have suicidal people, and you have rockets. For them, breaching security is always a problem. So, why not tie a suicide commando guy to a rocket, and
blast him to his target?? The goal would not be to HIT the target with the man attached, but rather have him break away at the rocket's apogee, and parachute down to the
target. Sort of an Improvised Paratroop.
The big problem I see with it is major whip-lash, but maybe head-harness could be made. I can see it now, though: "Terrorist flies home-built rocket onto military base." :D

If he's suicidal, why not have him fly the rocket into the target? Or Forget the rocket and use a light aircraft? :)
Edit: Sorry to lower the tone of the thread, but did anyone else see the thread title and read: "Wild...Improvised...Insertions"???

I wonder what google would show with a search for wild improvised insertions ;). But I dont see how whiplash would be to big of a problem, providing it didnt immoblize you,
as you wont be concerned about discomfort when your blowing yourself up. However it does seem far fetched as you said.

no no, the idea is not so much to blow yourself up! Since it's a tactical insertion, it would be to get the guy into a target area to perform a commando operation. This might
include shooting sleeping soldiers, assassinations, sabotage operations, etc.
zaibatsu August 12th, 2003, 04:59 PM

Couldn't you just use some form of motorised glider? Or even the glider linked to the rocket?
Chemical_burn August 12th, 2003, 06:37 PM

Your only problem is that the g forces would eather render him unconsious(sp i think) or most likely kill him see as how a rocket large enough to carry a payload of this size
would be very large and require a lot of thrust. Most likely the initial thrust from take off would crush every bone in his body seeing as the rocket would most likely have to
accelerate to over 500MPH if not more in a mater of miliseconds in order to achieve lift off. Ohhh yeah and if by some merical(sp) he did survive lift off then all theblood
ruching to his lower half of his body would render him unconsious.
Arthis August 12th, 2003, 07:30 PM

How do you want to guide the rockets with an attached man on them ?
The rocket: maybe because terrorist groups have no planes but rockets ?
The suicidal bomber: in that case of course a reasonable pilot/soldier wouldn't want to be a volunteer.
Another problem is that anyway paratroops are easy to kill if you attack a base or something like that. You would need to bomb the base before, and therefore rockets
wouldn't be of any use as paratroopers could break in by the door/walls if the base is ground attacked (mortar bombings) or by plane (air bombing).
Arkangel August 12th, 2003, 07:42 PM

the rocket would most likely have to accelerate to over 500MPH if not more in a mater of miliseconds in order to achieve lift off
So how does that work then? I assumed if it achieved 1mph vertically then it would "achieve liftoff". It's a wacko idea, true, but there's no need to add more shit to the
bonfire.
Basically, what I think Mr Samosa's talking about is getting an "operative" past checkpoints, fences and all the over stuff that gets in the way of insurgents - a bit like the old
James Bond Jetpack.
There are a number of technical problems with something like this, and these CAN be fixed if you have the time, space and money to do it. But as a terrorist device, they
would be of poor value compared to other means of attack. For every one of these you could probably get half a dozen land based people into action - many more even.
(re. motorised gliders, you could, but it would be shot down in no time by the idf. A mate of mine designed (and had tested) a pod slung under a tornado that carried a
motorised hang-glider to be dropped to aircrew behind enemy lines)
Kid Orgo August 13th, 2003, 12:35 AM

The applications would be limited by a few things.
The rocket would have to be low-altitude to avoid radar if radar was an issue.
If used to breach a perimeter, a huge fucking rocket (Light, smoke, sound) would tend to attract attention.
I'm sure there's more.
I, in my COMPLETE inexperience in such matters would imagine that any situation requiring the rocket man concept would be completely covered by stealthy ultralight gliders,
HALO drops, and the rest of the usual insertions.
chemwarrior August 13th, 2003, 01:47 AM

Your underestimating the use of a catapult... not only can they throw rocks... they can throw people!!
On a more serious note.. I dont imagine it is possible.. fighter pilots are trained and tested to be able to resist the G's that are put on their body while in flight... and they are
HIGHLY trained.. training a raghead sufficently to be able to do someting like that would be pointless.. especially if they plan on getting killed. It would be more practical to
launch the rocket.. let it crash into base/building/etc, then letting whoever get in durring the confusion.

Its not really practable but possible, people are launched out of cannons and are subjected to very large amounts of G-force for a very brief amount of time. For speed and
guidence I think something like a cruise missle but smaller, they glide to the target after they reach the speed they need. The rocket could be made to not subject to person to
an incredible G force for more than can be tolerated reach a high alltitude and glide to target and drop the person off however they like, like HALO but with a rocket instead of
a plane.

Well, to limit the amount of G-forces, would lowering the launch angle help? Suppose the operator were to build a ramp from which to launch the device (a simple one, of
course...one that could be broken up and stored in cars or something), so that the acceleration isn't quite as "instantaneous" as launching straight-up would be.
Hmm, a rocket glider... Or, what about those guys who have the big fans on their back, which blows air into a parachute, thus lifting them off the ground? That wouldn't kill the
operator on take-off, and is also quite stealthy. Maybe give the parachute a dark color, and the guy might be able to sneak past security checkpoints at night? Also, the
concept behind this seems rather simple.
nbk2000 August 13th, 2003, 01:28 PM

Rockets large enough to carry a man any siginificant distance would also generate thousands of G's of acceleration force, more than enough to turn him into a sack of goo. :(
Jet's pull maybe 11 G's for a few seconds. Missiles do thousands of G's for many seconds.
There was some guy who, just in the last couple weeks, flew over the english channel in 14 minutes, at over 200mph, using nothing but some fiberglass glider strapped to his
back, like Buzz Lightyear. :D
A large number of plastic garbage bags filled with ag. ammonia gas would provide lift for the suicide commando, who then disconnects and glides in. If he sees some issle
streaking towards him, he can disconnects and do a "superman" dive to hopefully avoid the missile.

All rockets big enough for a human used wont generate that amount of G-force, think space shuttle.

The shuttle creates a good number of g's yes, but its not really all that high. Its about 9 g's. And its not take off that is the problem, its re-entry thats the bitch.
Edit- I forgot to mention that a single rocket will create a LOT more g's than the space shuttle. Think of size/ weight differences. Also, have you EVER seen a rocket being
launched as opposed to the shuttle?? The rocket goes up extremely fast.. and the shuttle goes up extremely slow in comparison. The massive thrust created by the shuttle isnt
really all that powerful because it has to lift several million tons, as opposed to the missle which only has to lift itself and its payload.

several million tonnes might be a bit of an exageration :) Maybe Pounds...
I tried a google search for wild+improvised+insertions and amazingly, there were NO porn/sex related results in the first page (I only looked that far). There was something
about Jewish Heritage and for some reason TOTSE came in at result No.2!

Oops... my bad Anthony, lol.. I had meant to say pounds... I feel foolish... lol.
For the sake of my own curiosity, I just e-mailed one of their info centers and asked roughly how much it weighs when fully loaded and ready for take off.:D
nbk2000 August 14th, 2003, 03:26 PM

Dude...Google. ;)
Gross Lift-off Weight (approx.), 2,041,200 kilograms (about 4.5 million pounds)
That was the very first listing, didn't even have to click the link to find it, in Google.
Search term:
"space shuttle" weight "lift off"
Highly developed search skills are important if you want to learn. :rolleyes:
And the astronauts (space monkeys :p) only experience about 3-4G's in the shuttle, not the 7-9 G's like the earlier ICBM-based rockets subjected their payload to.

If you're launching vertical, all you need is thrust that'll deliver an acceleration of more than 1g. Be it 1.001g, that's enough, your payload will come of the ground but slowly.
You get into trouble when you're making an angle greater or smaller than 90 degrees with the horizon. You'll need less vertical thrust, but since rockets don't generate much lift
it will have to gain lift speed rather quickly or it'll nose dive into the ground.
That's why SAM rockets have such a high acceleration and ICBMs launched from submarines can fly straight up even considering their slow speed coming out of the water.
So if you're going to launch a rocket with a horizontal declination you'll either need massive acceleration or you'll have to put it up at sufficient altitude on a platform AND equip
it with guidance fins because it will have to correct it's dive.
cross August 14th, 2003, 11:31 PM

Well if the G Force problem could be dealt with it would be an interesting idea, but instead of just one person on a rocket why not a whole platoon? Now that'd be blitzkrieg,
the second war is declared 100 rockets are launched and an entire army is in the middle of the enemy's capital. No surprise attack would ever work again, the moment an area
was in need of backup it lands. Maybe a better application would be for something like invading a coastline and using rockets to deliver troops onto the shore. Hmm, that's
actually really stupid. Another thing about if this is really used a lot is that a single hacker could kill a whole army by messing up the missile guidance systems.

There seems to be some confusion over the difference between g's and thrust. Thrust is what the rocket motor produces, measured in Newtons (SI) or ft.lbs (or both if you're
NASA :D ). G's are acceleration units in m/sec^2, 1 g being 9.8m/s^2 (screw the imperial units). The acceleration of a rocket is thrust/mass so you can taylor the rocket thrust
to give whatever acceleration the pilot can withstand.
Missiles usually have high thrust/mass to achieve aerodynamic stability soon after launch, and also to have a shit show of overtaking whatever they were aimed at.
At any rate, I think a 90kg explosive (or toxic) payload is probably capable of more damage than a 90kg human payload. And its going to take a fairly big rocket to handle a
load like that.
nbk2000 August 16th, 2003, 12:32 AM

I found the website for the delta wing glider used by the guy who crossed the english channel.
http://www.freesky.de/SKYRAY.html
The one used in the crossing was larger than that shown on the site, but the principle is the same. Imagine if the Nazis had these...a whole army could have glided across the
channel (and impossible to shot down) undetected by the primitive radars of the time. :D
Anath September 27th, 2003, 12:23 PM

Believe it or not, DARPA is funding research into this..
Exfiltration Rocket (ER) A system designed to quickly extract special operations forces (SOF) teams from the mission area. This system would be brought in during the SOF
insertion and assembled at the exfiltration launch site. After mission completion, the SOF team members load themselves and any other items, such as a high value asset
(HVA) or weapon of mass destruction (WMD), into the ER and then take off. The payload and passengers are recovered via an air-retrievable payload system or through a
"soft" landing in a friendly area.
see Exfiltration Rocket (http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume4/chap03/b2_6.htm)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > New York Blackout
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View Full Version : New York Blackout
nbk2000 August 14th, 2003, 11:46 PM

Well, it seems that those pesky terrorists are at it again.
New York is sitting in the dark, along with most of the northeastern seaboard. Some 50 million people are without power right now.
Now, personally, I think some technician at Con-Ed fell asleep and hit the OFF switch with his twinkie stuffed face, but I just KNOW it's going to be blamed on terrorist hackers
or some bullshit by tommorrow at the latest.
It's just too good of an excuse for any corporation to pass up.
Plane blows up in mid-air because striking mechanic left a bolt loose in the engine...TERRORISTS!
Hotel burns up with 200 people in it because they were too cheap to install fire sprinklers...TERRORISTS!
Bridge collapses because city is too cheap to pay for anti-corrosion treatment of the structural supports...TERRORISTS!
There's a book called "Blackout Looting" that I got somewhere in my CD archives that describes the effect of the '77 blackout in New York. If the power stays out for three
days, the niggers will be burning and looting the city like crazy.
If I was an Al-Quiada terrorist, I'd see this as a sign from God to strike against the Great Satan, to instill terror and chaos. What better time to blow up a few tunnels and
buildings than in the pitch black of a moonless manhattan night?
MWAHAHAHA! Watch the multitudes stampede out of manhattan in a terrorized frenzy, with robbers picking off the weak, and looters clearing out the abandoned high rises.
Escape from New York, the sequal!
megalomania August 15th, 2003, 12:06 AM

Night has fallen over the eastern lands and reports of looting have begun to trickle from the east side of Cleveland. Water is also out for most of the affected, so the people
have begun to burst open the hydrants. Of course water reserves will only last a few more hours.
I am suprised the negros would wait 3 whole days before beginning the looting. They estimate the power will be back up within 12 hours, but we shall see. I would imagine the
looting will begin tomorrow night when all the hoodlems coordinate their activities.
knowledgehungry August 15th, 2003, 12:18 AM

If only it happened to california, God Damn i wish that state would dissappear.
Sarevok August 15th, 2003, 02:08 AM

Imagine, for a while, the effects of a global blackout (like it happened in Escape from L. A., when Snake Plissken turned all the world's power off)... It would be worst than a
meteor. Without electricity the world would be doomed. Instead of killing some fools with a bomb, the "terrorists" could work to destroy the electric-power industry.
Our very sick society is also very fragile...
nbk2000 August 15th, 2003, 04:43 AM

I didn't say the niggers would wait three days, just that it'd take them that long to set the city on fire and be rampaging in the streets. I've seen niggers start sniffing about for
stuff to loot within minutes of a power outage (in cali). :rolleyes: 'Course, this is the same race that'll fuck a dead woman as long as she's still warm. :eek:
If you want cali to disappear, pray for The Big One (earthquake) and it 'll slide off into the ocean! :D
frogfot August 15th, 2003, 05:39 AM

I really hope there happens something big during blackout, so my egoistic bum can watch something interesting on news :D
Yesterday I was watching a movie and it was interrupted with this news, but they were pretty sure it had nothing to do with terrorists. I guess it's never late to make up a
story.. :p

There is a Pakistani Joke... "When the power goes out in Karachi, everyone goes outside and plays Cricket or 'Chopan-Chopai' (not sure what this is- some game obviously :);
when the power goes out in New York City, shops are looted, women are raped, and buildings are burned."
Anyhow, what seems to have happened is that a power plant in Canada failed, so a plant in the US sent more power to it to back up that area, which in turn overwhelmed the
plant and caused it to auto-shut down...the same pattern repeated itself over and over again (unless I misunderstood the Press Conference), and there you go- East Coast is
blacked out.
Nevertheless, this puts ideas into my devious head. Powerplants have been a favorite target of Militaries and their Warplanes for a long time, and there have been a few
different means of taking em down. In the Israel/Lebanon War, Israel simply dropped bombs on them. In the Gulf War, the US dropped "Chaff Bombs" onto them... I don't
remember what Chaff is made of, but it's a real pain to clean out of all the powerlines and equipment. Then a wind picks it up again, and puts it back into the equipment :D .
Suppose one were to make several "Chaff Mortars" for the sole purpose of disabling power stations? Do you suppose this would be cheaper than simple HE Mortars? Speaking
of Mortars... NBK- I finally got around to reading your PDF (Great job, btw! Very fun read); in your section about mortars, you stated that they don't whistle in real life? From
all the various war footage taken by Journalists (Especially during the Taliban conquest of Afghanistan), all their mortars and shells seemed to make a "Whooosh" sound before
impacting...maybe those were just their tank shells though.

On the news this morning they had statements saying it's definitely not terrorism. Dunno why *one* power plant going down would cause such a huge outage though!
Comparitively that would put almost the whole of Britain without power!
I wonder if we're going to be down on posts here at theforum untill they fix it?
Tended Tripod August 15th, 2003, 01:38 PM

As I recall a chaff bomb is a bomb that disperses a huge number of little fibers, can't remember if it's fiberglass, or metallic filings of some sort. The point is to short out stuff,
so I would assume its metallic filings. The filings would hit a magnetic field on the way down generated from power lines, and get stuck to it, eventually, they would be on
every line so everything gets connected and short circuits.

The chaff consist of very fine graphite fiber. Therefore it's resistant and a pain in the ass to clean out.
controlphreak August 15th, 2003, 03:50 PM

I just recently attended a meeting, and one of the people to speak there was talking about Nuclear plant facilities and their security. Let me tell you, these guys are pretty
thorough at physical security alone. Train with Delta force, and other Nulcear facility defense squadrons. Also, their silo's where the actual reaction takes place are very well
fortified. I didn't get a copy of the slides, but there was a movie and it had a chunk of the wall taken out, and had an airplane (not a twin prop, but an actual, albeit old, airline
that could fly from New York to Los Angles, smash into it. Barely chipped it man, it is SOLID! Just a statement.
MrSamosa August 18th, 2003, 09:17 AM

I have been scouring the US Patent database for much of a day searching for information related to Chaff... I have found quite a few patents related to false targeting and the
dispersal of Chaff, but not much concerning its actual composition. So far, I hear Chaff is Graphite fibers, Aluminum Fibers, and Graphite Covered Fiberglass. I believe that it is
the last one, however, because that is what I found in a patent (not in much detail, just a brief allusion).
wrench352 August 22nd, 2003, 06:48 PM

In AFROTC & CAP,we were always told chaff was al.That was better than 10 yrs ago though.
BTW can anybody recommend a good read on metal powders and their effect on VOD?

There's all sorts of chaff, depending on manufacturer and the role. Radar chaff tends to be glass fibres with an aluminium or other metallic coating. They vary the length of the
fibres and the coating dependent on the perceived threat. (I don't know if any of you remember the Iran/Iraq war, where they were shooting exocets and silkworms at
supertankers in the Straits of Hormuz, and Kharg Island. I and some pals set up a company to supply palletised chaff launchers and smoke generators to tanker owners to
reduce insurance premiums - war ended before our first job :( but I did learn quite a bit about modular chaff launchers)
The stuff they use to take out power transmission equipment is either graphite fibre, or more likely graphite coated glass fibre because of cost. I have no doubt at all that you
could make a mortar that did that job, or that you could make the "chaff" yourself - a cement mixer, bag of chopped glass fibre and some graphite dust - and the launcher
itself should be a piece of cake for anyone on the forum:)
An alternative of course, would be to just use a rifle to shatter ceramic insulators, or even to punch a hole in the top AND bottom of a remote oil cooled transformer. You could
do a hundred of those before the first one burnt out. Do it with a silenced weapon and you'd be laughing.
I never understood why the IRA and other terrorists attacked flesh and blood targets when there are so many other (transport, power, comms, sport) SOFT targets to go for,
and these would arguably affect the public far more than shooting a policeman or politician in the head:rolleyes:
nbk2000 August 25th, 2003, 02:07 PM

Because the IRA is dependant on the goodwill of the local populace, as well as foreign donors, for their support infratstructure and financing.
Blowing up bridges, derailing trains, and shutting off the power to towns would not endear them to the locals. By targeting ONLY the people of the enemy occupational forces,
and their local lackeys, the IRA has managed to survive for more than 70 years and thus can be forgiven the occassional accidential killing of a civilian.
Now, if you were a terrorist operating in an enemy country, then it would make sense to go after the vulnerable infratstructure, because it's difficult to believe the governments
story about how they're capable of stopping the terr's if you're sitting in the dark because the terr's have downed the power grid for the entire eastern seaboard. :p

Because the IRA is dependant on the goodwill of the local populace, as well as foreign donors, for their support infratstructure and financing.
I didn't mean acts in NI, I meant disabling the power supply on the UK mainland etc.....EXACTLY the same scenario as the people who dislike the US. By "the occasional
accidental killing of civilians" I assume you mean stuff like putting gasoline and HE in crowded pubs on the mainland, or massacres like Omagh.
Things like that were stupid, unneccessary and HARDENED the public's attitude to the terrorist's cause. Making the public live by candlelight would have been an easy way to
make their point, same as blowing up random railway lines and telephone exchanges, and it wouldn't have had the same galvanising effect of watching people sweeping up
blood in a shopping centre.
(unfortunately, killing of civilians by both the provisionals AND loyalists was neither occasional NOR accidental - I get the impression NBK, that you know little about reality in
NI, but that's not surprising considering where you were born)
nbk2000 August 25th, 2003, 10:00 PM

I know about the slaughters caused by both sides, thank you very much.
But, just like the destruction of the WTC, it's not the people who die that are remembered, but the inconvenience caused by the destruction of the buildings, and the resulting
security hassles that is memorable.
If 30 people get burned up in a nightclub fire caused by the IRA, it has no real effect except on the business that burned up and the families of those who died. Yes, it gets
publicity for a few days, but then it fades away from peoples memories.
If 3 million people are sitting in the dark because the IRA blew up the transformers (but no one died), than bet your ass that those three million will be screaming bloody
murder at the PM for the extermination of those filthy IRA dogs who made them miss the latest episode of (whatevers' insanely popular on the telly right now). :p
I seen and heard about any number of massacres and atrocities during my life, from all over the world, but only a handful of any kind of event sticks out in my memory. And
the only massacre/atrocity that I clearly recall is Waco, everything else is background noise with no lasting impression.
Ask anyone on the street here to name ONE person who died during the WTC attack...maybe 1 in 100,000 could name ONE person. Ask anyone on the street to name ONE
inconvenience caused by the WTC attack and you'll get your ears chewed out about the wait at the airport. :)
Remember, the masses are only concerned about convenience and what causes inconvenience.
The constant dying off of provost police and soldiers has a big effect on the morale of the forces who have to occupy the country. They're none too happy to be posted to NI,
stay holed up in their stations as much as possible, and shoot innocents in panic when sniped at. :)
As long as it stays that way, the majority of people have no interest in getting involved in a dangerous and risky venture, like cracking down on guerrillas. :D
But get the populace involved by getting the price of gas raised (by blowing up pipelines/refineries), turning off the power, disconnecting their phones or 'net, etc...and you're
REALLY making it personal.
Arkangel August 26th, 2003, 11:23 AM

I never understood why the IRA and other terrorists attacked flesh and blood targets when there are so many other (transport, power, comms, sport) SOFT targets to go for,
and these would arguably affect the public far more than shooting a policeman or politician in the head
Erm.......isn't that what I said???????????????
(Although I did qualify it by saying that the killings actually damaged the cause of whoever it was that was doing it)
My point - terrorism doesn't HAVE to take life to be effective.
The constant dying off of provost police and soldiers has a big effect on the morale of the forces who have to occupy the country
The killings of security forces didn't demoralise them even remotely as much as frustrations with the political bullshit that went on. Most of the units who had people killed were
even more determined to find and capture (or ideally kill) terrorists.
By targeting ONLY the people of the enemy occupational forces
The above is fantasy NBK, the IRA targeted anybody that didn't fit in with their socialist republican ideal. They (and of course the loyalists as well) killed almost as many
civilians on simple sectarian grounds - never mind them being lackeys of the government.
But, getting too involved in a debate here about NI is special Olympics material. I've lived and served there, so let's just say I have practical experience where most people -
yourself included have secondhand partisan reporting. There's a very good book called "Pig In The Middle" about the British Army role in NI - Gerry Adams is quoted as saying
"should be read at least twice by every subversive". I'd recommend you read it too - not to educate you about NI, but to guide you in your nefarious plans;)

The above is fantasy NBK, the IRA targeted anybody that didn't fit in with their socialist republican ideal. They (and of course the loyalists as well) killed almost as many
civilians on simple sectarian grounds - never mind them being lackeys of the government.
That's what happens when you let religion and "tribal" thinking interfere with logic. IF they had restricted themselves as I described, they'd very likely have been much more
successful in getting world opinion on there side. If the loyalists where killing civvies, and the IRA was restricting themselves to only killing uniformed soldiers/police/pols, who's
the "terrorist" in the eyes of the world then? ;)
BTW, I like that book title "Pig in the Middle"! :D There wouldn't be an e-book version on the net, would there?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Fire starters (not magnesium based)
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Tended Tripod August 15th, 2003, 04:17 AM

I saw something on the news last night about a guy who 'invented' a new firestarter that could be used commercially for controlled burns. He put potassium permangeate into
ping pong balls and then some other chemical. After 45 seconds it would burst into flame, with a surprisingly jet-like envelope. They said they were fairly cheap to produce, at
about 50 cents (American) each. I'm not particularly knowledgeable about chemicals yet, so I was wondering what was added to make it ignite. They seemed amazingly
efficient at starting fires when dropped in a line spaced 1 meter apart. You could just put the other chemical in, tape the hole shut, and then throw it where ever you need it.
Into a forest, through an open window... I imagine it'd be hard to trace as ping pong balls burn quite well. Can you say arson?

It is most likely (99.99999% sure) gylerine that was added
metafractal August 15th, 2003, 05:25 AM

Did it look like this: Video of Glycerine/KMnO4 reacting by Sam Barrows of Powerlabs (http://www.powerlabs.org/movies/kmno4deflag.mpg)?
From your description, as blindreeper said, it is almost definiteley KMnO4/Glycerine
zeocrash August 15th, 2003, 10:57 AM

yeah it's almst certainly glycerine.
i use this reaction in the trigger mechanism of my smoke grenades
also i'd imagine they would work out how the fire started pretty quickly, the pottasium permanganate leaves a black residue after it burns, plus there would also be some
unreacted glycerine/KMnO3, this would give the investigators enough evidence to see how the fire started

Doesn't KMnO4 react with many different Organic compounds to produce fires/flames and such? But it does seem like it was Glycerine that was used, judging simply from the
delay time. I remember reading in the FAE thread that the reaction time between Glycerine and KMnO4 can be up to a minute long...not very instantaneous.

I played with it a while back and there was a delay, but not up to a minute.
Tended Tripod August 15th, 2003, 10:04 PM

I watched that video of the glycerin reaction, but it didn't look the same. It may have been the fact that it was venting through the open hole on the ping pong ball (it was
about 1/4 in.) The flame had a very aggresive look to it, like a blow torch. Just a pointy flame shooting out of the ball about 1 to 1 1/2 in. for about 1 seconds, and then the
whole ball just burst into flames. Set the area 3 in. around it in all directions fire. Like I said you could tape it shut and then just whip it somewhere. The moving around would
mix the ingredients better, and after it had been on the ground for a bit, it would burst into flames.
vulture August 16th, 2003, 06:19 AM

Ofcourse it will produce a jet. It's a large sphere full with a pyrotechnic composition and a small hole. Very similar to a rocket.
Hmm, idea. If they would actually fly away when not restrained, they would have a rather unpredictable flying pattern. Ideal for causing mayhem...:D

Tended Tripod, I've seen the same stuff in some documentary about fires in America. The firefighters are using these ping pong balls to set on fire forests in a controlled way.
The liquid is antifreeze, as the glycerine is a bit more expensive.
There is a thread about this somewhere; search button is really usefull sometimes :rolleyes:
PLUS the google. Do you know what the google is ? look, an example here (http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=firefighters+ping+pong&meta=)
FIRST use your brain rather than asking and wasting other's time.
nbk2000 August 16th, 2003, 04:50 PM

I can envision an ultralight flying through the valleys of a forest, using only the NVD amplified light of the stars to guide the pilot, with an automatic dispenser dropping
hundreds of ping-pong balls over the course of many miles, setting fire to huge swaths of forest land.
Repeated often enough, by enough fedaykin, there'd be too many huge fires to fight, resulting in the destruction of the majority of the forest, with the resulting economic,
social, and ecological impact being in the multi-billions to start with.
Imagine if 3/4 of americas forests was burnt to ash. What would that do to us? Probably a lot more than the loss of two buildings in New York. :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > am ericas army shareware !!!!!!!
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bonnsgeo August 21st, 2003, 11:46 AM

I can't believe it.
Am ericas arm y wich was free is now a shareware... FU*K !!
so i paid 3.65 dollars to download the update from 1.7 to 1.9.
i give you the links i paid for:
http://download.americasarm y.com /Arm y O p s 1 7 0 . e x e ( v 1 . 7 )

http://download.americasarm y.com /aao_patch_160to17 0.exe (v1.6 => 1 .7)
http://download.americasarm y.com /arm yops-m ac-170.tar.bz2 (for mac)
http://download.americasarm y.com /Arm y O p s 1 9 0 . e x e ( v 1 . 9 f u l l )
http://download.americasarm y.com /Arm y O p s 1 7 0 t o 1 9 0 . e x e ( 1 . 7 = > 1 . 9 )
download !!!!! before they delete them !!!
and they are stupids because if i wanted the full client 1.9 i had to pay 19.95 dollars but when i paid 3.65 dolalrs just for
update they give m e the link for the full version 1.9.
its a s h a m e.
E v e r y b o d y s e n d a n e m ail here: am ericasarmygam e 2 0 0 3 @ y a h o o .com

and say them they are all gay assh*les.
A-BOMB August 21st, 2003, 01:45 PM

I got 403's o n all of them , so I think they are already d eleted.
bonnsgeo August 21st, 2003, 01:58 PM

o h y e s y o u a re right.
....
So dont try to download it ! :)
bye
Spudkilla August 21st, 2003, 07:16 PM

All I have to say is: HAHAHAHAHAHA.
http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=3429
Psymage August 28th, 2003, 07:11 AM

just go to am erica's arm y (http://www.am ericasarm y.com/) where you can download the gam e for free :D , and i think it alway
wil b e f r e e b e c a u s e i t i s p r o p a g a n d e f o r t h e a m erican army :D
bonnsgeo August 28th, 2003, 07:41 AM

No. You must pay !
Psymage August 28th, 2003, 11:19 AM

you don't have to pay for the download download it here (http://ecom m erce.americasarm y.com /product.asp?
0=219&1=22 0&3=19)
you only have to pay if you want that they sent you a cd with the gam e o n is, but the download is for free:D :D

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Hot wiring cars/burglary & PETTY Crimes
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Crow August 22nd, 2003, 03:34 AM

Last week I decided to go out. I started doing this sort of thing two summers ago, but didn't last summer. I would be bored out of my mind and head outside. The first time,
with just the intention of walking around and checking things out at night. Since it was 2am in a suburban neighborhood, no one was up. No one really locks their doors around
here either. After walking by a few cars I noticed many of them had no alarms or were not activated, so I tried the handles and hopped in. I don't know how to hot wire cars,
so I would just take anything I wanted. Cd's, headphones, CD players, money(Bills), GPS systems, cell phones and scanners. My first question is this... Does anyone know the
properway to hotwire or start a car without keys? I'm probably just going to do joy riding, since I don't know of any chop shops in the area. Another question is, how do I find
chop shops or buyers for stolen cars?
I also noticed some locked sheds. Why would someone lock their shed unless it had valuables in it? I don't lock mine because it has nothing but a 20 year old broken dirt bike
and a lawn mower in it. Would a crow bar break through normal pad locks, or is that just hollywood? And how much noise does it make? I can't go around wakeing everyone
up.
Last week after taking some things from cars, I noticed a tv was on. Being a pervert I thought it was porno and thought I would get a free show. (Not from watching the guy,
the TV) Alas, it was a female on the couch, sound asleep. She was a fatty, so I didn't think of rapeing her or jerking it on her tits while she was sleeping. Rather, I noticed she
had a dozen or so bottle of booze on her kitchen table and the door was unlocked. I walked right in, emptied out her husbands expensive leather bag(I'm not sure what to call
them, not a breifcase, but not a hand bag, ya know?), and stuffed it full of the booze. I took her cell phone and purse and left. I took the money from her purse, $1, and
threw the purse in a dumpster. I headed over to a friends house to show off I guess. Not too smart to lug around stolen property or to brag that I robbed a house. But he's
cool, and only lived on the next street over. He purchased a bottle of half drank sake and a bottle of dry gin for $10. Cheap, but it's 100% profit. I'm planning to rob my
neighbors house next, since they sleep on the second floor and leave their basement windows unlocked. I plan to go in the basement window and take whatever good stuff I
can fit through said windows, since they have a basement living room. Does anyone know if pawn shops buy any tvs, or if they need receipts or some sort of proof that it is
yours to buy?
I haven't been on roguesci in almost a year now, some may not recognize me for this, or the fact I have about 13 posts to my name. Any advice would be great.
frogfot August 22nd, 2003, 04:05 AM

Are you serious?...
chemwarrior August 22nd, 2003, 04:13 AM

Hes joking. No one in there right mind would, for one, basically brag about doing that sort of shit on here, as well as ask such completely stupid questions....:rolleyes:
A tip though- If you want money, dont be petty about it. Dont just decided to break into a place some night and do it. Have a little common sense, case the place, make
detailed logs of their habits, any animals they might have, etc. Then wait till a time when no one is home. THEN make your move. Im not even going to consider telling you
how to do it properly, you can figure that out on your own... I hope....:rolleyes:
Crow August 22nd, 2003, 04:42 AM

If I had the time to go out and case a joint, I would. As of right now I only have the knowledge of my neighbors habits. I can figure it out on my own, I just thought it would
be faster on here. I really only came on here looking for info on hotwireing, but added as I went...
Very dumb to talk about it on here, yeah... I've posted illegal shit before, I haven't gotten a call or seen any feds or suspicous vans parked outside... Paranoia is for suckers.
Although, suckers seem to get caught less often though.
Nihilist August 22nd, 2003, 05:54 AM

I really would find it hard to believe that any government agencies monitoring this site, would even care about small time theft such as this, so your safe in that regard.
However i'm not sure exactly how the rules of the forum relate to so blatantly stating involvement in criminal activity.
Arkangel August 22nd, 2003, 06:21 AM

RTPB#? PETTY!
You're doing petty stuff dude, you sound careless, naiive and stupid. If you're genuine about what you've been up to then you're heading for a fall.
Get a job and sort your fucking ideas out:rolleyes:
THErAPIST August 22nd, 2003, 07:10 AM

I'm gonna say somehting about hotwireing here. Opening the dash isnt how one would usually go about hotwiring a car. Professionals dont even hotwire, they pick the ignition
and start the car. Ive also heard of professionals completely taking the ignition section (pins and such) out of the steering column. When it comes to crossing wires, you cannot
get to the wires that would be of any use unless you have some Very odd screwdrivers and such. Star type screwdrivers that have holes drilled in the middle of them and such.
Opening the hood is one way of doing it but then you have to connect wires from the ignition coil to the battery and shit and that just takes too long. I guess all im sayin is that
it takes someone with either a locksmithing license or one whose good with locks and such to start a car that they don't have the key to.
Just leave that alone and dun be ganking peoples stuff. petty theft is about lame. I've stolen stuff before but ive always placed it somewhere odd near the place where it was
initially taken from just to see the reaction of the owner when they found it, and ive just done this for kicks.
GibboNet August 22nd, 2003, 09:07 AM

This is a pretty ridiculous post.
Cd's, headphones, CD players, money(Bills), GPS systems, cell phones and scanners
And you're still looking for a way to offload the gear ? What have you done with all that loot in the meantime ?
Stolen cars are not worth it unless you're stealing really high end models, which are ten times harder than what you're even thinking of. Who's going to buy a car that has the
dash ripped open ? No one who has the faintest notion of car theft. If it helps, lot sof cars like my old corolla (82 model) can be started with almost anything, like a different
key, a screwdriver etc.
Phones might be easier to offload, same with CD's. careful with phones, as I'm sure some will get blocked when they are reported stolen. I have 5 phones here, one I found,
(a new 3315, some guy left it on the roof of his car :rolleyes: (a3310) my gf's, (philips savvy, bought) a newer nokia, blocked, and a motorolla, blocked. they might as well
be paper weights. I was given the two blocked phones by different friends, because of my workings with them. (I have a data cable, and do free graphics and ringtones for
people)
When I was young, I did the same thing, but strictly cars. I mainly got ciggies, because a few packets was big money sold at school. My best finds were a laptop, that I didn't
take, and a guys pay packet, with $450 cash in it. :D
Beleive me, give it a few years, you won't believe how stupid you are. I was doing pretty much exactly what you are, except I only went out to poractice night movement
techniques. From there I was going out every few night, doing different areas of town.
Now I think about it, it was unbelieveably stupid. I'll never do anything like that again. I suggest you think about what you're doing.
When is lockdown coming back for poor misguided souls such as this one ? :(
nbk2000 August 22nd, 2003, 12:01 PM

I despair for the future generations of criminals, if this is the best they can come up with....*sigh*
All right, first off, don't even bother with trying to steal the cars themselves. What would you do with them? You said you don't know of any chop shops, and would just be
joyriding with them, which gains you nothing but time in jail if caught, plus GTA on your record.
BTW, I bet you didn't wear gloves while you were doing all these "adventures", were you? In which case, congratulations, your prints are now on record for various crimes,
including burglary of an inhabitated dwelling which is usually considered an B level felony...right up there with armed robbery, and just below murder/rape. :)
There's an old saying:
"When does a burglar become a murderer? When he's surprised."
Say fat bitch woke up and walked into the kitchen while you were looting the booze? She screams, you panic, grab knife...OOPS! See? Not good.
And what if she was a young tight-assed hottie? Would you be tempted to rape her? The fact that you even mentioned rape says to me that you would. And then you'd be in a
serious world of hurt, because you'd be leaving your spunk all over the place, since you wouldn't have had the foresight to bring a rubber, shave your pubes, etc, and you'd
likely kill her thinking that'd prevent capture (which it wouldn't).
If it was just a burglary, since you're likely under 18, you'd get off with only a few years in a juvenille facility, 25 being the maximum that most states can hold you till, which
would give you plenty of contacts with the criminal element that you could use when you get out. But with rape/murder...you'd be prosecuted as an adult (more like than not)
and spend the rest of your life in prison, or on death row, all for a piece of ass. :rolleyes:
But you won't have to worry about these petty crimes catching up with you if you've never been printed yet, and avoid getting arrested with the next 8 years. (yeah, right! :p)
Besides RTPB "P.E.T.T.Y.", you're also fitting into a well known pattern. Cops know that, when there's a cluster of petty burglaries and car break-ins within a few blocks of each
other, that there's some snot-nosed juvenille running amok in the center of it. They've likely got you pegged to within a block of where you live.
If they've got nothing better to do, they'll have a unit sitting parked in the shadows with its lights off, watching for any teen walking the streets at 2AM. Then they'll snatch
your ass when you get back (likely with stolen property under your arm), arrest you for curfew violation, print you, and BOOM! you're busted. Time to say hello to Bubba! :D
See, you're shitting in your own nest by stealing from your neighbors. 'Course, you dont' have a car to go elsewhere, so that's a problem, but you shouldn't be stealing from
houses anyways, unless you KNOW that there's something VALUABLE inside anyways, and VCR's and such don't count. That's crackhead bait.
If there's a gold coin or gun collection that you know of, then that'd be worth going after, otherwise it's P.E.T.T.Y..
Pawnshops? HAHAHAHAAAA! What an amateur. Like that isn't the first place the cops go looking. :rolleyes:
I should lock this thread, but I'll leave it open so others can mock your foolish behavior. :)
Lockdown will be returning once I'm finished with the DVD, but I doubt he could afford the membership fee of $10. :p
Crow August 22nd, 2003, 11:26 PM

I do realise how fucking stupid this is. I've never been printed, and am only 17. I did wear gloves as I went to the dentist the day earlier and took a box. No curfew around
here, but the cops are fucking ruthless so they would arrest me for wearing black socks. Not much of a pattern, one random night a summer...
I doubt I will go into any houses again, and most likely not steal cars, just anything good in them. I should stop entirely, but it's fun, and a good adrenelin rush. I don't know
why I'm stupid enough to post it on here, but I will never do it again. I will ask for help I suppose, but not the story of why I need it.
::slaps self in the face::
nbk2000 August 23rd, 2003, 02:49 AM

I should stop entirely, but it's fun, and a good adrenelin rush.
Not as much of a rush compared to the one Bubba would get when he busts a nut up your ass! :p
Seriously, it's a good thing you're slapping yourslef in the face now, BEFORE you get popped for stupid shit. If you stay clean, you can buy rifles in a few more months, then
you can go on to much more serious crime. :)
Leave the cars alone man...P.E.T.T.Y...seriously. Could you imagine a Capone or Corleone busting out car windows to steal mobiles? Didn't think so.
Anthony August 23rd, 2003, 10:49 AM

Trouble is, you're a punk kid, probably without any balls.
Some guy is going to look out his window one night and see you clambering about in his car, one time it'll be someone with balls and they're going to come running out with a
bat and fuck you up.
Not that I would approve of it or anything :)
Your only saving grace in my eyes is that because your neighbours are trsuting enough to leave their cars open, you haven't actually done any damage in order to steal their
shit. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have to pay ~$200 for a new side window because someone smashed it to steal a ~$5 pack of cigs?
Seriously, what you're doing doesn't even require two brain cells to rub together. If you're going to do crime, do something worthwhile. Rip of the government/customs, a large
business or a rich person (esp. celebrity). Bothering the man on the street is stupid, he has little to give and will fight you for it.
You won't get much help here, for the simple reason that if almost anyone here caught you fucking with their car, they'd rip your balls off.
nbk2000 August 23rd, 2003, 01:25 PM

INT. STAIRCASE - FORUM PRIME - DAY
The Baron NBK and Anthony descend several steps into a darker area of Forum Prime. Anthony is carrying a strange topic in a small wire cage. The Baron is floating as he
descends.
BARON NBK (takes a drink of blood)
Anthony, even though he's young, Crow is one of the finest k3wLs in the Universe... and he's mine, Anthony... all mine.... Quiet now.
ANTHONY
I will.
INT. BASEMENT ROOM - FORUM PRIME - DAY
Zaibatsu stands eating candies behind Crow's chair. Zaibatsu has a stun gun, even though Crow's hands are tied. The Baron enters with Anthony.
BARON NBK
Oh Crow, I see they've installed your HED plug already.... Don't be angry. Everyone gets one here. But this is not why we're here. We've brought you a little topic, Crow. You
must care for it if you wish to live. A poison has been introduced into you, Crow. By milking this smooth little threads body each day you receive your antidote... it must be
done each day.... Also, you must do something for me if you wish to live. You know I lost shitHED, my dear k3wL...
Crow gives the Baron a weak, wide-eyed stare.
ANTHONY
All I can see is a Totsite that I want to kill.
BARON NBK
Anthony, no, no! Crow's a Forumite now, aren't you Crow?
CROW (inner voice)

My dear TOTSE... how I have failed you.
BARON NBK
And to remind you of your place, I'm going to have the RTPB's tattoo'd on your chest, in reverse, so every time you look in the mirror you will be reminded of your foolishness.
ANTHONY and ZAIBATSU begin laughing.
+++++++++++++
:D
Seriously, if I caught someone stealing my shit, I think I'd like to capture them (if they don't resist/run, in which case they die!) and tattoo the RTPB's on their chest, in reverse,
so they can read them every time they look in the mirror.
I'd think that punishment enough, and they may even learn something about being a criminal. Whatever rule they violated gets branded on their forehead. :) Likely PETTY...or
YTTEP. :p
Desmikes August 23rd, 2003, 10:22 PM

I am sorry for not being up to modern terminology or abbreviations to be exact but what it PETTY or YTTEP
James August 23rd, 2003, 10:32 PM

Pathetic Earnings That'll Trap You. You should read NBKs Rules To Profit By (RTPBs). You should be able to find all relevant documents by *searching*.
nbk2000 August 24th, 2003, 12:06 AM

I am sorry for not being up to modern terminology or abbreviations to be exact but what it PETTY or YTTEP
While you may not know what PETTY means, how could you not have clued in to the fact that "YTTEP" is "PETTY" spelled backwards? :confused:
Dazed and confused to be sure. :p
Simply typing in "RTPB" in the search box would have brought up everything you needed to know. You can even find it on Google. :)
I'll take mercy on you this time.
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=18358&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Palestinian P2P service flouts system
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View Full Version : Palestinian P2P service flouts system
megalomania August 23rd, 2003, 05:46 PM

I have just heard about a new P2P service called Earth Station 5 (www.es5.com) based in war torn Palestine, deep in the heart of the ghettos. The service is directly
challenging the RIAA and the MPAA by saying they can't be touched (nyah nyah nyah!). Indeed Palestine copyright law only protects Palestinian works, but no so much foreign
works. Of course being in the war torn ghetto adds another layer of insulation to the service as I doubt too many lawyers will go over there to track them down.
The service is also supposidly inclusive of some anonyminity features that should protect the users of the service from detection. Naturally such a claim should be taken with a
grain of salt as P2P anonyminity is difficult to achieve fully, and the RIAA would say impossible. One system it recommends is the one-click proxy ability apparently to
automaticially connect to a proxy with the software.
Nevertheless, the new service is flouting their legal safety by offering direct downloads of "Terminator 3" and "Tomb Raider," plus current movies.
The company started about two years ago while Napster was in its last stages. They secured funds from Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Russia (can you say "enemies of America?")
to start up and do the programming. The company reports it has already been downloaded some 22 million time, and has been translated into a dozen languages.
The software has no spyware or adware of any kind, and it is free. Unfortunatly the software is reported to be a bit cumbersome and buggy. There are also some extras like a
dating service, a chat system, IP based phone calls, and streaming video channels of porn.
It sounds to me as if the Palestinians have found another way to stick it to the greedy jews (who control the movie and music industry). I say good for them, and if this service
works out there will probably be others who will make better software offering better anonyminity over there in the mideast.
I decided to download the software and see for myself what it can do. It is a 4.2 MB file that uses 10 MB of space when installed. It uses lots of web graphics for the display
which takes time to load everytime I would switch from one area to another, somewhat annoying on my slow dialup connection. It does not list how many people are
connected, or how much stuff is available, so there is no way to verify how popular it really is.
It gives you more search catagories than Kazaa, but one thing it does not have that I would like to see is the ability to search everything. Every search I made returned plenty
of results, so there must be a good number of people using it, but not as many as Kazaa. Some searches did seem to take awhile, rather like Shareaza. The webpages for the
movies and chat were unavailable when I tried them, so we shall see if they offer streaming movie files or not.
All in all there is nothing special about it, it dosn't seem all that different than Kazaa or Shareaza except that you can adjust some things to make you anonymous. You would
really have to know what you are doing with most of the advanced settings as the documentation dosn't really explain what to do, except for adding proxies.
++++++++++++
Edited to improve readability.
NBK
nbk2000 August 24th, 2003, 12:07 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if this arab P2P is actually a subliminal communications channel for Jihadeen to plot attacks.
I've thought for a while about the practicality of hosting websites and services in countries hostile to the US.
A palestinine-based P2P could give a flying fuck about copyright lawsuits coming from the US. :) I also doubt they'd mind an explosives/weapons themed P2P network very
much either. ;)
A libyian ISP would wave their mangy scrouts at anyone telling them to take down a hacker site that's paying them cash.
The North Koreans would likely be glad to host every pedophile site on the planet, for exorberant fees 'natch, if only to have something to bargain for food with. :p
What about a "black" satellite server? Something that's piggybacked by the chinese or indians into orbit as part of a larger commercial launch, and that operates as a high-orbit
"undernet" server?
Just the thing for mafia, yakuza, and other "nefarious" types for storing their data where it cant' be seized or tampered with...not without a multi-billion dollar shuttle misson
and a MIRACL laser! :D
Sure, the US could shoot it down, but that'd violate the ABM treaty and cause a shitstorm that'd likely not be worth the effort.
There's plenty of 3rd world nations out there that could use the money, and don't like the US not one little bit Sam I Am, so it couldn't be that hard to set up. The only problem
is that these kinds of countries are also all but stone-age when it comes to being connected to the net.
And I'd think it likely that the US and it's puppets could block most of the routes in/out of said countries if they felt like doing so. Which is why an "undernet" satellite would be
the prefered route, since anyone with a satellite hookup (think IMARSAT) could connect to it...for a fee, of course.
The satelllite wouldn't be for porn surfing (you can do that with AOL), but for trading and storing information (think spreedsheets for money laundering/blackmail) where no one
has juristication, or even the ability, to seize it. :cool:

I might write a tutorial on proxies and their applications/effectiveness/how-to for the tutorials section, if you want. I can include deatailed instructions on how to set it up in
relation to es5.
NBK, that's exactly what warez sites have been doing for years. They base themselves in countries where copyright laws don't apply or where the government isn't friendly
with the US.

Nihilist, I've noticed you seem to be quite knowledgeable in the IT field. So a tutorial about poroxies would be very welcome, as anonymity is one of our main concernings.

Well, so far for anonymous proxies. A dutchman has been arrested lately for blackmailing a large food company by means of the internet. The man communicated with the
company through surfola (http://www.surfola.com/) and used steganography to transmit the messages through pictures of cars on a carsale site.
When the dutch authorities tracked the man down to the anonymizer, they asked the help of the FBI, which proceeded to contact Surfola, which revealed the mans identity
without even objecting or denying the information.
Surfolas terms of use:
SURFOLA.com will not give out your name, residence address, or e-mail address to any third parties without your permission, for any reason, at any time, ever.
Trust no one.....

I have written a brief tutorial detailing the use of proxies, it is however windows specific(anyone who uses a *nix based OS shouldn't need a proxy tutorial). Mac users, sorry,
but you're on your own. I don't really have any place that I can post it at the moment, so I was wondering if I could submit it to the tutorials section on the roguesci main
page?
megalomania August 24th, 2003, 07:41 PM

That would be fine. Go ahead and email me a copy at webmaster@roguesci.org
Jacks Complete April 16th, 2005, 09:19 PM

Sorry to re-open this one, but...
The Dutch man could have used a fake credit card to pay for Surfola, then he wouldn't have got caught.
Far easier would have been to simply go to a net cafe, give a false name if asked, pay cash, and then use any anon. proxy he wants. If they do track it back, it dies at the
web cafe. Even better would be via a wireless network, after faking his MAC.
It is possible to string proxies together, using encrypted routes, but I don't actually know how to do that, so I will shut up. :)


controlphreak April 16th, 2005, 10:13 PM

Stringproxies along is easy. There are progrmas to do that, or you can just find the proxies you want, and the connect to one, send a connect request to the enxt one and so
on and you have chained them together.
As for the encrypted routes, I would think that would be IPsecv4 I think is what we are on or SSH Tunneling that you are refering too.
As for the backtracking, what if the cafe has cameras? They can record things and they can follow up on the people, as for the spooging the mack address yes that too can be
done and would be the safest one to do in my oppinion.
controlphreak

controlphreak

controlphreak
Jacks Complete April 21st, 2005, 08:15 PM

I know you can daisy chain proxies, I just don't know how to. One is enough, and port switching with all the data stripped is good enough for anything I ever do.
A web cafe with cameras? Possible, but unlikely. I've never seen one with cameras yet, they just don't have the money these days, and you would easily see them. You would
soon know, though, just misbehave subtly, and watch for a response. The other way would be to install a program to do the work for you while you weren't there.
The biggest risk would be if they recorded all the traffic - what a way to get credit cards and details!
EDIT: You would, of course, use a string of proxies so it never got back to the cafe!


malzraa April 22nd, 2005, 01:15 AM

Friends, you must use TOR. Plausible deniability! tor.eff.org



The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Female Members?
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View Full Version : Female Members?
Cyclonite August 25th, 2003, 12:32 PM

I was just curious how many female members are there on the forum? Chicks that like blowing shit up are few and far Iv
found, I think ill marry one...one day
nbk2000 August 25th, 2003, 01:38 PM

We've got two female members, at least openly admitted females, here. There may be more, who knows, and does it really
matter? What matters is what they bring to the table, not what is (or is not) between their legs.

NBK i dont think he meant it as women were in any way less capable then guys in this field, I think he merely wanted to use
the forum as an online dating service to find a chicky that will let him have his own arsenal.
kingspaz August 25th, 2003, 05:28 PM

haha, personaly i just think he was wondering.
frostfire, are you still here?
DBSP August 26th, 2003, 04:25 PM

Would it be rude asking who the other one is assuming frostfire is one of the two?
I think it is great fun to have female members here, not that I give a shit about which gender our members have when it
comes around to what they know/share but it's still fun since it's so rare. Pretty much like it is funny looking at people from
the sahara desert skiing.

Noltair.

" I know it has been a while since I have posted (due to work, school, girlfriend , diablo II, etc.) "
Quote from Noltairs post in"paying for forum membership"
So thats just bullshit or is she a homo?
Hmm homo, girl and pyro, cant be a very common combination.
(No offence ment, don't want to piss anyone off by this)

I know that the member "Nika425" (not quite sure on the numbers) is female. She is a mod at the xinventions forum.
Personally any girl who likes science apart from bio is fanfuckingtastic!
Flake2m August 27th, 2003, 08:34 AM

Most girls that are intrested in science are from my point of view are either:
1. Fucking UGLY
2. Fucking boring
3. Too snobbish to care about anyone else
I do know of a few girls (that also know me :rolleyes:) that do have a decent personality and and pretty hot.
Though my chances are with them are overall non-existant because no matter what school I go to, how ever many times I
change my ID (not really) and no matter how nice I am to people (which at time is borderline ass kissing sometimes) I still
get a reputation for being a psycho (which I am not). Shit just happens I suppose.
So I encourage those girls who are intrested in science and E&W to join this forum. You might learn something intresting
because this forum has some of the best minds on the 'net.
aster August 27th, 2003, 11:19 AM

i am agree with flake2m, i think the girls in e&w forum will mostly boiling your pyro blood in the future when you re married
with them :D

Yes, id have to agree with flake for the most part. I was just curious, its strange how society tries to mold and shape genders
to be interested in certain things. Also im sure brain chemistry has something to do with it. It could be just me but my perfect
date would be setting off a 1000lb shot at sunset watching the cloud rise up and feeling the shockwave pound through your
body with some fear factory to set the mood. Any decent looking girl who would enjoy that I would have no problem with.

We're always looking for ideas for possible Roguesci business ventures, and it looks like we could be on our way to a Roguesci
Girls calander :)
"Chicks, tits, explosions"
:D
simply RED August 27th, 2003, 06:07 PM

Its really true that most girls interested in science become medical personnel or biologists. I know some... But they don't even
have different way of thinking than any other wemen.
Actaully there is some slight difference between a scientsist and a pyro(no matter is he/she a sci or not).
James August 27th, 2003, 06:30 PM

I thinks a girls of rouguesci calendar is a bad idea. You would be posting photos of member where they can be reached by the
authorities. Also, some idiot would probably attach handles, locations and other information to such a calendar. A calendar of
people who the authorities already have, or better yet neutrals who can't identify members might be intersting. You should
delete the names and locatios though.
Edit: patched broken tags.

I really don't think Anthony was serious about that....

I guess a lot of you boys are still too young to realise this, but a pretty face and a nice arse are hardly criteria on which to
judge a woman. Surface beauty is transient, so look beneath the surface when you look for a partner. My wife is not the most
beautiful face on the planet - I know it, she knows, and I care about it less than she does. The companionship we share is set
to last a lifetime, I plan on still being married to her 50 years from now.
Oh, I still like to 'window shop', but as the saying goes " It doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you always
eat at home". Best of all my wife understands this. Ain't I the lucky one?
back on topic ...
I too am interested in the forum demographics - not just gender, but age too. I still think there are too few female engineers
- I like working with women. And they're not all ugly either ( there were some absolute stunners in my year at university).
Sadly the discussion seems to have disintegrated into some sort of 'Boys night out'. No wonder none of the female members
have replied yet.

No wonder none of the female members have replied yet.
I think that our female members don't reply because people would look at them in another way and they think that they would
loose respect - perhaps they would be right, sadly.

Personally, I would respect them even more... They are doing something most women wouldnt even consider, and thats
something to admire:)
frogfot August 28th, 2003, 03:53 AM

Flake2m (I'm a bit late), I disagree on those 3 points you stated, because, by own observation, it seems to be totally
random. And besides, pyro is more like passion than science..
My wife is not the most beautiful face on the planet - I know it, she knows
I hope you don't tell it to her, else, this wouldn't last a lifetime.. (and I don't know anything about relationships..) :rolleyes:
Btw, nobody would disrespect them, they would only get more attention, maby thats why they doesn't answer (or most likely
there arn't any female members present..)
kingspaz August 28th, 2003, 06:16 AM

maybe we don't actually have more than 2 female members...
Rhadon August 28th, 2003, 06:38 AM

maybe we don't actually have more than 2 female members... Yet, we do :). I know of at least one more, but telling you that
is a thing of her own.
Mr Cool August 28th, 2003, 08:09 AM

Tuatara, I know loads of girls that are going to do engineering at Uni - LOADS!! Maybe it was less popular when you went, but
I can't imagine there being a shortage of female engineers.

Well Tuatura atleast you get regular sex :D .
Frogfot those points I made are based on my own experience.
The main problem is how do you attract female members to a forum that is mainly based on subject that 90% of females
generally stay away from. Female members can input different ideas into this forum that most guys wouldn't ever think of.
On the other hand, if there are very few female member then the guys can bitch an whine all day about which p0rn $tar has
the biggest tits and other appendages ;) (in the water cooler) and why guys are superior to girls.
Overall, female member would be more of an asset to this forum then a liability because they think differently to guys (and
guys only think about one thing, its not food ;) ). They would also learn some real fact about topics that often get the wrong
type of publicity.
static_firefly August 28th, 2003, 10:43 AM

i met a female pyro once. I was talking to her and somehow got onto the topic of "fire" and she says "im a bit of a pyro".
me "sure you are, what do you make"
her "Peroxides"
This shocked me a little but i continued on
"yeah, where do u buy the stuff for that?"

"hydroponic stores, oxy plus"
...stunned silence
"cool"
I didnt tell her i was a pyro, it kinda scared me a bit and it was all weird. She wasnt ugly either.

I doubt the histroy knows a true pyrowoman?

Mr Cool, I'm so glad to hear that things have changed. I graduated in '89, when most women who were science oriented did
science or medical degrees. In my class there were 80 students, of which 8 were women - so sad.
Flakem2 : Regular sex?!! I have two kids! Have you any idea how badly that can mess up your sex life ?:D

Girls intrested in explosive are of course less likely to attract attention then guys. I mean who would suspect a 6"2 brunette
with a decent ass and a nice pair of tits to be capable of synthesising explosives as well as designing, preparing and
detonating an HE charge?
I went to a school drama night earlier on this year and there was a good skit that involved someone shooting up the guy that
invented the parking meter :D . What made it funny apart from the guy acting out being shot to shit, was that the shooter was
a hot girl that had a toy SMG (of course). She wore an army helmet and high heels and seemed so innocent & happy untill the
SFX gun fire sounded, then giggled and walked off.
Most people instantly suspect guys to be the perpatrators of violent crimes as well as acts of terrorism, while overall guys do
commit more types of these crimes, the women are going to less likely to be suspected so often they can get away with it.
nbk2000 August 30th, 2003, 02:44 PM

This is why terrorist organizations often use women as couriers, spies, and other tasks, because they can often get through
checkpoints and go places that the men aren't allowed into.
Though I'd suspect a 6'2" "woman" of being a man in drag! :eek:
Desmikes August 31st, 2003, 12:27 AM

Perhaps if there were less of those wonderful jokes about women crossing roads and such we'd see more female members;
however this also means that those that are still here deserve a lot of respect.
The times really haven't changed much as far as number of wemen in science goes. In my department we have about 5%
chicks and the ones that are there don't look much different from men :(
Flake2m August 31st, 2003, 08:36 AM

NBK if you were the checkpoint guard you'd make sure she was strip searched :D .
Though seriously, we need more feamle members. Someone here has to think of a way to attract more of them to this forum,
they think a bit differently to men so they might be able to solve a few problem we have with our designs and synths.

You could give explosives cute nicknames such as pretty pink bang bang and change the fourm colors to pink. (No really, no
sarcasm here) I just dont think it will be an easy task to get the other genders attention to explosives and such. While I was
in EOD school there was 2 female soldiers in a year to graduate the rest failed or got knocked up, I really think its a brain
chemistry thing.
kingspaz August 31st, 2003, 01:54 PM

i think the problem is the lack of testosterone. it makes women avoid risk. thats why most alcoholics, smokers, hunters, rock
climbers, sky divers, etc are men. testosterone increases your brains ability to be happy taking risks. thus not that many
women are interested in this hobby.
Kid Orgo August 31st, 2003, 02:15 PM

My orgo class is probably 70%-80% female. I don't know, I don't see any shortage of female chemists around here.
Not many of them will want to synthesize RDX, chloropicrin or 5MeO-DMT, but hey, there's still time.
zeocrash August 31st, 2003, 03:36 PM

orgo class??
i'm afraid i'm not familiar with that one
Chemical_burn August 31st, 2003, 05:03 PM

I think hes refering to Organic Chemistry if im not mistaken.
zeocrash August 31st, 2003, 06:17 PM

cool
the way to really draw all the women here is to make some horribly antifemale comment
like women are only useful for cooking and cleaning
then see who comes to defend the weaker sex :)
knowledgehungry September 1st, 2003, 06:18 PM

Org Chem is required for becoming a doctor, that would be my guess as to why there are so many females in it. Its also
definitly true about the lack of testosterone, girls are rarely interested in risk taking activities. My girlfriend is scared to try new
foods, never mind trying to make explosives... Not all girls are like that, but the majority are, from what i have expierienced.
In fact I would love to have a girl helping me out with my stuff, rather than my guy friends, who are very impusive and not
cautious enough for my tastes.
Arthis September 2nd, 2003, 05:17 AM

Wouldn't it be risky if you forget to take precautions while you're eyeing her tits floating over the beaker... ;)
T_Pyro September 3rd, 2003, 04:33 PM

Well, there are a few girls in my class who have sufficient knowledge to be able to make AP or black powder, but from what I
gather, they tend to view things in a slightly different perspective. If someone told me about some new mixture that could
produce red, green, and blue sparks while deflagrating, I'd go: "Cool! I HAVE to try it out!" Wheras females would be most
likely to respond like: "OK, so? big deal." I guess it's this difference in opinion that leads to such a small percentage of
female pyros/ engineers...
The Crazed September 4th, 2003, 08:30 PM

I personly know 2 female pyros and are good friends with them. They aren't too bad looking either. Though for some reason
they don't like to mix to many things to see what happens. They act more like the old school pyro who is occupied by a bit of
flash powder (always fun) and some aresole hairspray. It is a shame, because they are very smart, so I don't know the lack of
reason for their not liking chemistry and such. Must be the lack of testosterone...1/2 Unfortunately I could never get with them
:( because they are way out of my league.

they are way out of my league.
Don't think so. Anyone is fair game. If you're willing to spend a little time on it, you can con anyone into stuff. Do some basic
psychology research (anyone want me to post my lectures and notes ?) and get some experience, you can have any girl
twisted all over you. There are a few good sites detailing methods of picking up too.. they are a bit lame, but there is some
good info there.
Sorry to be way off topic. In my experience, girls will love fireworks, but won't have much interest in how they're made, or
anything similar.
simply RED September 5th, 2003, 08:40 AM

There are many extreme wemen. See the parachute jumpers, the bunjee, the alpinist. Some of the female metals.
Everyone who has read "Silent Spring" knows what i am talking about!!! (actaully this is the most extreme book ever written, to
my opionion). The book "Do you know everything about the poisons"("very popular" in Bulgaria) is another absolute
example...
Explosive and electronics sadly seems to be off their interest, which is very hard to explain.
Actually i've never seen a female interested in conventional weapons.
Maybe we should put a section about biology?

knowledgehungry September 5th, 2003, 10:10 AM

A whole animals as weapons section? And Gibbo i know a guy who uses psychology and shit to get chicks, he is this fat ugly
annoying piece of shit but he studies the girls and finds out exactly what to say to them. I have been very close to kicking his
ass so if you do try the psychology shit dont go overboard with it. I dislike it when girls are taken advantage of especially my
friends.

If you cant see through it you deserve to be taken advantage of. Its the best way to learn. Iv learned the hard way most of
the time, it really sticks that way.

Cyclonite, you're entirely right. If you're not taking advantage, you're being taken advantage of. ;)
I personally don't 'scam' chicks like some mates like to call it, but I like to be able to settle the gf down after she gets shitty.
It's just an easy way to get your own way.. no-one gets hurt, but you get the same result faster and with less fuss. Makes me
wonder why spend the time on her in the first place.... :rolleyes:

I wasnt referring to guys who knew how to make girls feel good and actually cared about the girl as much as i was referring to
guys who learned how to wreck a girls self esteem so that they are dependent on him alone, and then when he gets bored of
her he drops her. The guys who profess love to 5 different girls in a week, guys who lie just to get in a girls pants make me
mad especially the ones who are good at it and plan out exactly what to do to get thegirl.
The Crazed September 5th, 2003, 07:02 PM

Ok, we r getting a bit off topic here. This is supposed to be about pyrowomen not how to pick up chicks. Anyway I was thinking
and I thought that mabey the reason girls don't like explosives and electronics is because they don't have such a wanting to
know how things work. If you think about it, most people here started simple trying to make something they've heared of or
seen. It could be that women just aren't into such things as much a guy is. Who knows why exactly, mabey it is placed in their
brains real young by parents who place a gender role on them...1/2

Sounds like a case of playa' hating to me. :D
If the girls are stupid enough to believe the bullshit scam that some guy runs on 'em, then they deserve to get tossed up and
let behind. :)
BTW, I've got a PDF copy of the "How to Pick Up Women" site before they went pay, and it's kinda dodgy, but if it works...:)
Personally, I avoid 'em, 'cause women have been the ruin of many a mans hopes and dreams. I can't afford to have
someone else in my life till I get my game tight, ya'll feel me? ;)
Speaking of females, some nigger bitch was in the store earlier with one of her spawn and, while waiting for the other bitch to
do her shopping, was saying (swear to God!) "booga-booga" to her brat! :eek:
I just about died trying to keep from laughing! :D
Now I KNOW for a FACT that it's not just some racist sterotype, but that the nigs actually DO say that, and they learn it at their
mama's knee. :p

No not at all. I have a girlfriend and am perffectly content with her, its just i also have some friends that are girls and ive seen
em get hurt by scuzz.

Again, if they let themselves be victims, it's no ones fault but their own. In this world, you're either predator or prey, whether in
school, on the streets, or in between the sheets.
"Love" is like a comfy hammock suspended over a punji pit. It's great while you're in it, but it's hell once you fall out of it. :)
Best thing to do is to take your rest in the shade of the hammock, but don't bother climbing in it, and most definitely stay
away from the pit. ;)

I just might quote you on the hammok analogy someday, thats pretty accurate
simply RED September 6th, 2003, 12:37 PM

NBK2000! Thats not only accurate but quite smart!

Someone mentioned that some women do risky things like jumping from planes, mountain biking/climbing etc. Well yeah, but
they often do it to make a stand for "women power", to prove that they can be as good as men, to rebel against society
expectatioins... and not out of self-fulfilment. Some will find it interesting and stick to it but for the most part they do
something once just to say that they have done it.
They do things that grab people's attentioin, something that media will be interested in and since there are no (I am yet to
see one) demolition/pyro-competitioins there are no women in this forum.
BaDSeeD September 14th, 2003, 03:10 AM

LOL
I don't know where the hell NBK comes up with this stuff.
I've still got my doubts on how to classify his ideas.
Some border on pure genius, while others are deeply disturbing.
Lasarus September 14th, 2003, 06:22 AM

I totally agree with GibboNet and The Crazed.
Girls don't care about how things work, as long as it works.
If a guy is told some science stuff, he puts two and two together and says to himself
"imagine what I can do with that!".
When girls take a science or doctor degree they think of their career, starting a familiy and to be "successfull" and all that shit.
Without men's (and maybe boy's) curiosity and will to take chances we would still be in the stoneage.
And then I have a thought about the real subject. I think that maybe the "girls" here pretend to be girls because men are
much more willing to answr stupid questions from them, and decrease chances of beeing kicked from the forum. I have a
bunch of friends who does that.
(On Direct Connect and the like)

I don't know where the hell NBK comes up with this stuff.
I've still got my doubts on how to classify his ideas.
Some border on pure genius, while others are deeply disturbing.
Border? That implies that they are almost, but not quite, genius, which of course is sheer folly on your part. :p
Washuu Bot A:
"NBK is a genius!"
Washuu Bot B:
"The greatest in the Universe!"
And I'm modest too. ;)
As someones sig says "There's no genius without madness". So true, so true. :D
Men are more prone to taking risks, which is good for a predatory animal, such as man. Woman, being the breeders of our
species, have to be less prone to taking risk, since the survival of the next generation depends on them keeping the children
alive to adulthood.
Since you can be so adverse to risk as to stagnate, any society that seeks to forever freeze itself in an everlasting status quo
soon finds itself obsolete. Imperial china, fuedal japan, and all of africa and the middle east shows this hazard in full effect.
Western culture has always been about taking risks. Sailing off into the sunset, not knowing if you'd sail off the edge of the
world. takes fuckin' balls! And that's why western culture is as advanced as it is, while the lesser races are no further than they
were when Columbus and Magellan sailed the oceans.
Any male (can't call them men) who pretends to be a female, so as to avoid being rightly trounced for being stupid, needs to
turn his balls in at the door because he's nothing but a bitch with a tumorous growth between "her" legs. :mad:

Possibly most of the girls think " O geez, another one of those dorks who tries to impress me" when you start talking about
your subject, since explosives are, well, impressive no? :D
0EZ0 September 14th, 2003, 07:47 AM

nbk, yes that would be my sig. I always thought he(Seneca) had quite a point, even for a roman. But thats OT ;).
As in regards to women in our field, I always thought that instinct played quite a role in deciding what activities one does in
their life. Generalising, I don't think women have a much of an interest in the topics here, and they don't posess the same
curiosity that most men have. Although I don't think that any women that have found their way here have a lack of knowledge
concerning the discussion.
Honestly, I have never knowingly met a pyro chick. I have found that women's appreciation of pyro rarely goes beyond the
'pretty show fireworks'. It doesn't really surprise me though. Women who are into E&W as much as the members here are far
and few between.
There are always a few exceptions and I'm glad to see that there are a few female members here as I honestly think it adds
quite alot to the discussion.
pinkfire September 26th, 2003, 03:58 PM

Just to clarify, there are females who get bitten by the chemistry bug, and we don't think any of you guys are dorks, and we'd
love to be impressed by/learn from your experiments.
I'm lucky to be getting some wonderful guidance. I've so far managed some beautiful results with hypergolic mixtures, and
I'm about to do my first KClO3 synth. Baby steps, I know, but I'm still new.

My girlfriend likes to build shells...
And gets this crazy gleem in her eyes
over HE same as you do.
And I know other women who build

and shoot display fireworks as well.
wrench352 October 17th, 2003, 10:50 PM

I just met a chick on msn chat not that long ago.She was a naval air weapons specialist,Tomahawks.
YEAH!:D
I looked at her profile this chick was a badass hottie 10 ++
I was already talking to another girl,so I didnt get to chat too much.But she definately knew her way around a compostion:D
pdb October 23rd, 2003, 09:23 AM

Talking about pyro girls, I happened to meet a girl years ago, who would carve big rocks with dynamite... that she would
purchase, not make herself.
Any other example of art by explosives ?
xyz October 23rd, 2003, 08:16 PM

By filling strong metal casings with only a very small amount of HE, you can create some cool looking pieces of "metal
popcorn" that I suppose would classify as modern art. I always put the device in the bottom of a deep hole to catch all the
popcorn so that it doesn't fly off and get lost.
A CO2 cannister filled 1/10th of the way with 25/75 APAN (flame sensitive) will stay in one piece but will do an excellent
popcorn impersonation.
anthracis October 24th, 2003, 10:27 AM

Generally speaking, girls are frightened by explosives or they simply cannot properly realise what does this means...My gf is
very scared when she see me working with any chemical substance at all, even if she knows that I am biochemist and
"somehow" comfortable when it comes to chemicals. Well, she is not a very brave person, anyway, but probably it is my fault
also... :D

Yes, most girls tend to think of "Extremely sensitive, detonates extremely violently when exposed to sunlight or loud noises"
whenever they hear the word explosive and also tend to think that all explosives are like that.
99.9% of the public have no idea that you could take a pile of dynamite or C4, set the whole thing on fire, and be fairly sure
that no explosion will occur. In fact, burning it is one of the accepted methods of destroying dynamite (although detonating it
is much more fun :) )
Anthony October 25th, 2003, 10:49 AM

Another thing is that when the majority of women hear:
"Extremely sensitive, detonates extremely violently when exposed to sunlight or loud noises"
They think "Shit! Better not fuck with that!". Whilst most guys think "Neat! Time for some fun..."
darkdontay October 26th, 2003, 09:31 AM

I belive the blend is somewhere around 50/50 between Genetics and community that causes the reactions in women.
My sister for example, when I was living at the house loved chemistry and explosives and other such things, like dressing in
ghillie suit and sniping birds and animals cause It was something I liked and she was trying to imitate me. I belive that to be
a nature reasponse gained through years of evolotion. Now I have been out of the house for over 4 years and she is entering
High School and has lost all brains, dresses less the tastefull in my opinon and wants nothing to do with any of that stuff and I
watched the change her friends had on her.
My eldest sister while allways acting and dressing classy and what I would consider the casual professional can get in their and
fix shi on her car if needed and other things, she is against explosives :( .
My point is that we get what we create, if we want more female involvment then we need to start changing the social
constrations and personal preceptions of thing... or just wait for the ragin bull dike bitches to find us.
Once again this is only my personal observation if you do not like it that is your right.
anthracis October 30th, 2003, 03:26 AM

Hey, who wants more "female involvment"?!...I don't!...:D If I want to meet girls online, there are thousands and thousands of
sites. I'm here for a different purpose. If a girl is here and wants to learn/share knowledge etc., it's fine with me! But for the
rest...:) I personally don't care if my gf is not interested in HE's and such. It's a good thing she is interested in me.:D
wrythawk February 11th, 2004, 08:54 AM

if you like to see women,guns,explosions then go to this site www.actiongirls.com ;)
wrench352 February 13th, 2004, 03:10 AM

Yay! Got a user/password for us wrythawk? Yes, I am too cheap to spend the $5.Some of this stuff borders on weird,perfect :)
.Dig the chick on the missle.Insert WMD joke here.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Australian 7:30 report (abc TV)
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View Full Version : Australian 7:30 report (abc TV)
Pyrophoric August 26th, 2003, 04:36 AM

Last night (25 August), a national current affairs program, The 7:30 Report ran a story here in Australia about four young
documentary makers in Tasmania and how they easily constructed and detonated a home-made bomb. Clearly they knew very
little about what they were doing - they claimed that "The Internet taught me everything I needed to know in 15 minutes." In
addition their "bomb" (a 50Kg bag of ammonium nitrate, possibly ANFO) was professionally detonated. The claimed intention
of the kids was to highlight the need for more stringent controls on ammonium nitrate sale.
After hearing this story I thought the media was going to jump on this one, stirring up the same fear that was caused after the
"cruise missile" (really a modified, remote controlled plane, with an explosive payload!) incident in New Zealand. Certainly on
talk-back radio this morning there was much talk of the story, expression of fear, and the need for the community to "be
alert". Thankfully it seems that due to pressure from the authorities and government that the media has since dropped the
story. However i'm now afraid to set off anything that produces more that a "crack" in the neighbourhood, and even worse, that
my supply of ammonium nitrate and various other chemicals will dry-up.
You can find a transcript of the storyhere (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s931803.htm)
Blackhawk August 26th, 2003, 04:52 AM

That story really screws me, I mean it is clearly obvious to all but the most kewlish that sythesising HE's of household stuff is
easy, and by the sounds of them they spent their 15mins on totse with all their other 12year old rebel friends. Licensing AN,
seriously who is gonna make farmer Joe get a blasting permit to fertalise his crops? and if you could get some special 'growers
permit' for AN what's to stop terrorist making their 'bombs' at a farm? And the way they act all smart and dangerous "it's just
easy makin b0/\/\Bz" no shit it is easy to buy a bag of AN, tip a bucket of kero in it and get a certified demolitions expert to
det it for you, "so the detonation was done in a safe manner" my arse, it was because they were too stupid to do it
themselves.
metal dragon August 26th, 2003, 08:22 AM

Yesterday on the 7:30 report (after abc news) they reported that 4 Tasmanian men produced a 50-kilo Ammonium nitrate
b o m b . The y didn t go into de tail about the explosive except they said that it contained commonly available AN. They showed
pics of cons truction in which they most probably mixed up ANFO. The y mad e a deto nator ou t of house hold chemica ls (the
words K3WLS love) in which probably was AP. They detonated it in the bush. The charge was placed in a car to which was blown
to pieces.
All I have to say is fucking show offs. T hey are trying to big note there selves loo k what I can do bloody p athetic. I d o
support people putting pics an d videos o f there e xperiments but they are no t inten ded to b ig note one s self. They were
trying to enlighten the public but what they succeeded in doing was provoking fear. Pe ople n ow know the eas y in which an
explosive could be produced s o any sound of toy cap or s parkle r flair would be called terrorism. Be alert but not alarmed this
is there prize modo any testing of energetic material would be so feared you would have the anti terrorism helicopters at your
door in minutes. A firecracker or even burning some bp would be an act of terrorism.
The real great thing is they learnt everything they needed to know in 15 minutes of searching the net. Any body planing
terrorism or even the old beloved K3Wl will know to search the net. People now know that explosives are simple, easy, takes
no previous knowledge, the net is the perfect place to look and the power it has. I think they have given more away then
planned. I think this will make copy cat bombings.
What are your thoughts on the matter?

Suddenly I feel very proud to be Tasmanian :D
I didn't catch the report, I'm very dissapointed. I wonder how I will be able to get a copy. I might write to the ABC. I bet all
Tasmanian dealerships of AN and similar fertilisers are going to be watching things a lot more closely now. I'm glad I haven't
bought any recently, I bet they are tracing such purchases as we speak.
I want to find out more... I wonder if there's a local club I've been missing out on ? :p
It's going to make my life hell. Everyone who knows me knows of my interest, and everyone's going to be looking at me.
:eek:
EDIT:
Official News Transcript (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s931803.htm)

My Fears Confirmed (http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/tas/mettas-26aug2003-5.htm) :( :mad:
I just walked in and said, "We need five kilos of ammonium nitrate."
And he said, "Oh, sorry, we can only sell that in a 50-kilo bag."
So we said, "That'll be fine."
And he said, "Take your car round the back and we'll load it up."
And he joked with us on the way out, "I hope you're not going to build a bomb with that, fellas."
:rolleyes:
There's a similar thread to this one in the Water Cooler, so I'm merging it with that one.
shady mutha August 26th, 2003, 05:05 PM

Saw it and was not happy. Lets hope nothing to bad happens.Something I found interesting was the journalist claimed that in
the U.K AN is detonation proof? Know anything about it. Hopfully AN is just to important for agrigculture to simply pull off the
market. Im over AN anyway but still .
THErAPIST August 27th, 2003, 12:47 AM

I don't know about the other places in the world, but AN is too important to get rid of here.
I live in the golf course capitol of the world. Ammonium nitrate is the fertilizer that's used to give golf courses that nice rich
green color, so there's no way in hell that it would come off of the shelves here. Besides that, people around here are stupid
when it comes to explosives anyway, most of the people who work at agricultural stores here and such are teens who know
little more than how to get wasted on weekends or just hang out at the beach during the week
vulture August 27th, 2003, 03:48 AM

Something I found interesting was the journalist claimed that in the U.K AN is detonation proof?
Yeah, if you don't dissolve the prills....:rolleyes:
You didn't honestly believe a journalist would have ever heard of an extraction, did you?
That's not household anymore dude, that takes some ch3m1ztry sk1llz 'n sh1t d00d!

I saw the 7:30 report on that and it made my blood boil watching Kerry O'brien carry on about why we need to try to ban OTC
AN, which as we know is impossible.
We all know that trying to set off any AN based device, especially if it is a large one can be like trying to get blood out of a
stone ;) , given that it is very hydroscopic, very insensitive and very stable compound. The 7:30 report tried to make out that
to set off AN all you need to do was add petrol and a fuse then light the fuse and run.
I saw the follow up report on the this 133+ 3)(p0$1|\/3 b0mb and atleast the guy they interviewed had half a clue on terrorism
and the fact that if you ban the sale of AN then might aswell ban everything else that is remotely dangerous.
Kerry O'Brien (the reporter on 7:30 report) is known to be left wing, atleast therer was someone prepared to put him in his
place this time round.

Originally posted by shady mutha
Something I found interesting was the journalist claimed that in the U.K AN is detonation proof?
Yeah... it's not :)

it is no way to ban everything that can be dangerous...
for example if you don't have AN, you will make urea nitrate
green beret August 27th, 2003, 09:38 PM

Did anyone tape this? I would be very intersted to see this. I am going to try and get a copy from the ABC if no-one taped it.
0EZ0 August 27th, 2003, 10:46 PM

I find it rather appalling that reports like this even make it onto television. Being deliberately vague when detailing how such
things can be done leaves a huge margin for false information. I suspect the 'young Tasmanians' were only out to make a
name for themselves, and were not aware of the issues involved with banning the sale of AN. It figures that these boys were
Tasmanian:rolleyes:. No offence to our contributing members from Tasmania of course.
They made a documentary of the whole process, signed up a professional to actually detonate the bomb safely, and the
outcome of their project scared them.
Ha! No wonder it was so easy to detonate the charge, they hired a shotfirer to detonate a bag of fuel soaked AN with most
likely, a purchased (and already highly regulated) detonater and booster system. If they actually allowed the 'improvised
detonator' to be used, the shotfirer would not only be in breach of protocol and could have been subject to hefty fines,
suspension of lisence or even jail time, but also have to total embarrasment of the charge not even detonating due to the
stubborness of untreated AN compositions:D.
I would like to bet that if one of those boys was of arab, palestinian or indonesian dissent that the farmer Joe who sold them
the AN would have jumped on the phone, pulled out his shotgun and held them at gunpoint until the police arrived:D. Such is
the paranoia of simple minded folk due to the recent terrorist events.
Honestly I would be more afraid of being run down by a car in the street than being a victim of terrorism. The sad fact is that
there are people out there who profit from a terrified population, and profit well. The same day that Bali became the victim of
a terrorist attack, hundereds of new propositions related to the restriction of certain materials, information and activities were
put forward and PASSED because the goverment found 'just :rolleyes: cause' to approve them. I have no doubt that the
polititions were sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for such an opportunity to arrise. That is what annoys me the most.
Complete disregard for the population's civil liberties. Terrorism has just become the accepted excuse to fatten defence
budgets, restrict our rights even further and even to invade other countries (think iraq, afghanastan etc.). After all, a regulated
population is easier to control than a 'free' one.
We will always have those people who are 'oh so patriotic' and initiate the banning of materials that have even a hint of being
used unlawfully or dangerously, as long as the absence of the material does not inconvenience them in obvious ways;). If only
they knew that the fruit and vegetable industry would do to them for attempting to erradicate the use of ammonium nitrate. I
would bet that if they succeeded in getting rid of it, we would see them complaining about the price of fruit and vegetables or
how their instant lawn was not as green as in the catalogue:D!
The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

Well you know there's an ol' Tasmanian motto: Three heads are better then one ;) .
The "documentry" failed to take into consideration that AN based detonations do occur regularly and that they are for
completelt legitimate reasons. As we all know AN is a commonly used in mining explosive compositions and that shot firers are
often employed by mining companies.
So it is easily understandable why they didn't have a problem setting off a 50kg bag of diesel soaked AN using a commercially
available blasting cap and booster charge. The shot firer would have set of charges like this all the time. These would often be
20-30 times larger then the one shown and involve maybe 100 seperate charges often set off at the same time or milli
seconds apart.
For goodness sake ABC. Give the public some REAL FACTS, not some half assed attempt at government propaganda.
Someone should write a paper on how poor and lacking this "documentry" was.
shady mutha August 28th, 2003, 08:30 PM

Well said! I taped it and on the topic and the detonater it appered to me to be a small homemade device, I am sure the tape
was edited in relation to the whats how they detonated it just so the could get the story to air. As for the blast I was amazed
how close they were to it! Now that was was funny.
nbk2000 August 28th, 2003, 11:51 PM

Typical media-attention-whoring by do-gooders. :rolleyes: Real facts have nothing to do with todays journalism standards.
It's not news if it doesn't blow up, so that's why they had a pro set it off, because if the kids couldn't get it to explode after a
dozen attempts "using all the instructions they learned in 15 minutes on the internet, using household chemicals", then what
would that say about the quality of information to be found on the subject on the internet and how "easy" it is to make a
bomb? ;)
It'd be interesting to know what site these "kids" used as their information source. In fact, I bet these weren't even "kids", but
rather actors for an alphabet agency as part of a disinformation campaign in preparation for some more legistlation that's
waiting in the wings.
See, you use child actors to stage an "event" that is conveniently covered by a friendly journalist as being "news", and the
explosion is staged to ensure success, thus promoting fear among the sheeple, so they'll be ready tos upport yet another
ass-reaming of their freedom. :mad:
Also, what the fuck were kids doing making a 50 pound bomb? :confused: It's interesting that they picked one of the most
stable and hard to explode things possible as their project. It's extremely difficult to explode accidently, yet powerful enough
to do damage, and uses that "readily available as fertilizer" ammonium nitrate.
Would not a few grams have demonstrated the point? Yes. Would it have been as dramatic as vaporizing a car (bomb) with
20+ kilos...NO! And that's why it was done. Not to prove a point, but to stage a dramatic event.
If I was going to stage a demonstration of something "dramatic" for the media, I'd go with something a little more "dramatic"
than a bomb. How about a nice "Weapon of Mass Destruction"? Mustard gas is old hat now, but easy to do. Tabun would be
within reach now, thanks to the patent information by Saravok, and how would THAT sit with the government?
NEWS AT 7:30
Tonight, a frightening look into the shadowy world of a global internet terrorrist information network know as "Patent".
Kerry O'brien discovers just how easy it is to learn how to make Weapons of Mass Destruction using only the information
stored in internet-based government patent repositories.
Weapons of Mass Destruction, such as mustard gas, tabun, sarin, VX, phosgene, hydrogen cyanide, ricin, plus the ways and
means of using them as weapons can all be found in detail on these government operated terrorist training networks.
The United States, Britian, and European Union are the largest perveyours of death porn, but other nations are also peddlers
of deadly information.
With such information at their disposal, anyone, possibly even your neighbor, could become a terrorist, and nothing but their
own good will and self-restraint could stop them! :eek:
Can you trust your neighbors to know this kind of lethal information and not be twisted into amoral baby-killing terr's having
having been exposed to such inherently evil knowledge?!
Watch the 7:30 News show tonight and find out what happened to one person who was exposed to such knowledge, and the
terrible effects it had upon his mind!
Kerry O'brien:
Now that you know how to make deadly nerve agents from common household chemicals, what do you want to do?
Anonymous Voice:
(Speaks haltingly as if reading from a script)
Rape...pillage...kill...and eat...dead babies?
Kerry O'brien:
Oh my God! It's destroyed his mind and turned him into a raving lunatic! :eek:
:D
Welcome to the new world of journalism, where the only news fit to print is that which you make up yourself. :p

NBK, don't forget the fact that AN can be detonated with nothing more than a homemade fuse of twine and wd-40. Oh yeah,
and about that broccolli we've all been eating, it's actually poisonous if you inject it into your eyes, and can be used as a WMD,
so watch out for anyone trying to sell you this homemade terrorist device. Also watch out for people that eat carrots, terrorists
have been known to eat carrots, and/or breath oxygen. We urge the citizens to be wary of these signs of a possible terrorist
and report them immdediately to the local authorities.

Its all so stupid. Perhaps one of us should be brave enough to show the media what happens if you park a full 9kg LPG bottle
on a bag of burning charcoal, all valves sealed with superglue. Who is going to call for a ban on gas BBQs?:D
xyz September 2nd, 2003, 05:34 AM

50 Kilos of ANFO just to destroy a car?!?
It must have been either poorly made or an incomplete detonation because a car could be totally smashed with 1 kilo and
obliterated with 5 or 10 kilos.
I have seen 350g of ANFO create a huge explosion that hurled a 5Kg chunk of wood at least 60m (the charge was very highly
confined though:)).
But seriously, all this media attention is just going to make your average 12 year old little Jimmy look up bullshit sites like
TOTSE, blow his fingers/toes/nose off, and then more laws will be passed to restrict those "naughty, dangerous chemicals"
:rolleyes:.
This reminds me of what someone here (I forget who) said about how people will probably need a toilet paper license in 50
years time .

Just when I thought things were settling down...
The Sunday Mail (http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7186093%255E2765,00.html)
Honestly, just what is next?! It would be quite amusing to see what is actually on that list. If only they knew the scope of it
:rolleyes:.
Comments?

It really is true that Australia is steadily becoming fascist through democracy...
I wonder if they have figured out yet that raghead terrorists may simply kill the shopkeeper to get their AN? If they do it
quietly, hide the body and set the AN bomb off the next day, this isn't going to stop them.
blindreeper September 9th, 2003, 07:34 AM

I saw that in the Sunday Mail. I think they will only target things such as fertilizer and stuff not anything like coldpaks -
hopefully!
metafractal September 9th, 2003, 12:16 PM

All I can say is that TheForum Island is looking more and more tempting...
T_Pyro September 9th, 2003, 12:25 PM

Creative (Inventive even, maybe?) journalism it may be, but it's a fact that ammonium nitrate is far too easily available to the
wrong kind of people. No, I'm not talking about kewls, but true terrorists. In the past six months, there have been more than
five terrorist attacks on the mass transit systems here (buses & trains), all of which have used some ammount of ammonium
nitrate. These terrorists seem to know exactly what they're doing- the last two bombings were synchronised to go off within +-5
minutes of each other, at entirely different locations in the same city. To make matters worse, the law enforcement agencies
seem to have absolutely no knowledge about explosives. Quote from a report on the last bombings:
"Traces of sulfur were found at the bom sites, which prove that high explosives (ammonium nitrate) were used in these blasts"
Since when did sulfur traces neccesarily imply high explosives, far less ammonium nitrate? :rolleyes: The fact is, ammonium
nitrate is, in fact readily available, but it is very unlikely that anybody would be able to gain enough know-how to make, or
detonte a real bomb using ammonium nitrate "using all the instructions they learned in 15 minutes on the internet". But then
again, terrorists don't become terrorists after "15 minutes on the internet".

Maybe so, but arent you forgeting what this site is really about?
Trying to stop people from getting the materials is just a step away from trying to restrict knowledge of making explosives.
Both of these methods are ineffective, they are quick fixes that create more harm than good. Why dont governments ask,
"Why are the terrorists blowing the shit through us in the first place?", and if its for no good reason then take serious action
against the terrorists themselves.
I am no leftist, but this brings to mind a scene from Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine". In it, he was demonstrating why
America has so many more murders per head than Canada. Until this point, the audience had been persuaded to think that it
was because America had 'more guns' than Canada. But, he then went on to show that the average Canadian family has far
more guns than the American one. The point I'm trying to make is, though I never thought I'd be the motto of the NRA,
"Guns dont kill people, people kill people".
If you ban ammonium nitrate, soon enough people with knowledge will find plenty of other things to hurt people with. If you
start to go along this path, soon you will have to present photo ID and fill out a 10-page questionnaire in order to by corn
flour.
Treat the problem, not the symptoms.
Enough rant for now. Metafractal.
0EZ0 September 9th, 2003, 10:59 PM

It's not India or Indonesia that we are talking about here. It's mainland Aus. Although Aus likes to think that they own the
region :rolleyes:.
I understand that most bombings carried out in your country are mainly composed of NH4NO3. But if you read the reports you
will soon see that the bombers use sticks of Gelignite and commercial detonators to detonate those charges. Now which would
make more sense? Regulating the use and sale of detonators and Gelignite or NH4NO3?
The problem is that the use of commercial grade explosives is not regulated enough in your area. Miners are buying supplies
legitimately for their quarries and end up not using all of their charges, gelignite sticks, dets etc. Where do those surplus
supplies end up? You guessed it, the black market. With over 350 commercial outlets that sell explosives supplies In india,
and quite a modest mining industry, the lax of proper regulatory procedures benefits your extremist and terrorist groups. Also
add the instability of the current political situation (Kashmir for a big example) I guess it is a recipe for disaster.
What is more to blame? Bomb materials or the people that use them for malicious intent? Deal with the people, not the
supplies. I think you will find that any well funded terrorist is going to use premade explosives and detonator systems anyway.
Even completely banning OTC materials is deffinitely not going to stop them.
So what is the real point in trying to ban all the OTC components? Thats what really worries me, just what is the REAL reason
behind the crackdown on these things in Aus? I mean when was the last time we were attacked on home soil huh? Suspicion
that it will eventually happen is not really enough. If they won't reveal the evidence that we are going to be attacked, then how
can people beleive that it is 'just cause'? I honestly find it hard to beleive that all this is because they are trying to stop
terrorist attacks on home soil.
Yes I do agreee with you that law enforcement at the moment really has put little effort into undertanding explosives. Just
look at bali, the first thing they announced was that the bomb was composed of more than 50kg of Ammonium Nitrate. Yet
people were walking around with half charred bodies and no hair :rolleyes:. The temperature of detonation with most/all
NH4NO3 based explosives not containing a metal powder is comparatively low, certainly on the bottom of the list concerning
temperature of explosion. Also it is certainly not enough at all to charr flesh unless you are in a very close (few meters at
most) proximity to the epicenter of the blast. As if you are going to be worrying about that anyway as you would be blasted
into a fine mist. Also another factor is that most detonations are so quick that local overheating of nearby materials to the
point of decomposition (burning) does not happen because the heat produced is not sustained for long a enough time period
to do any further damage. Chlorate/Perchlorate flash mixtures on the other hand:(...
T_Pyro September 10th, 2003, 06:03 AM

Metafractal, you're just reinforcing the point that I'm trying to make: I'm not saying that the supply of ammonium nitrate
should be stopped. Such a move would be futile, indeed impossible. Anyone who is resourceful enough to be able to get hold
of the requisite detonation caps, electronic timers etc. would obviously have easy access to conc. HNO3 and liq. NH3.
As for "trying to restrict knowledge of making explosives", I think the media is way ahead of us. Instead of blatantly putting
the wraps on explosives, they're doing something much more feindish: spreading misinformation about explosives and the
like, so that half the 49.5% of the population get paranoid about the situation and start talking about stupid moves like
"banning ammonium nitrate". :mad: As for the other major 49.5%, they're converted into idiotic kewls who revel in the
misconception that they can "blow shit up" as and when the like. :rolleyes: The remaining 1%? Well, we're here! ;)

Sorry, you must have gotten in just before me metafractal :p. My post basically was the same as your own.
Flake2m September 11th, 2003, 05:09 AM

Apparently the Bali bombing used a chlorate composition not an ammonium nitrate composition and that would explain the
burns that the victims received...
I think it is innevitable that Australia will suffer from a major terrorist attck, it might not be today, it might not be tomorrow,
but when some A$$h0|3s do manage to detonate a bomb in busy place laws will change and Australia will change. People
thought differently after the Bali bombing because most of us never thought that such a event would happen so close to
home.
People can think irrationally during during times of great distress, September 11 was one such time, October 12 was another.
When people think irrationally we can end up with total anarchy and people that are normally very logical thinkers can
suddenly lose the plot altogether. Some people that might consider themselves to be ordinary end up doing extrodinary
things and may be regarded as heroes. It is during times such as major terrorist attack we have to rely on the leaders for
guidance in the hope that events like September 11 and October 12 don't create any more chaos in the future.
We can double or triple security at airports, we can make people present photo ID when buying fertiliser and we could even
ban gun use, but that wont stop terrorism and crime. The only way to stop acts of terrorism in the first place is to stop the
idiots from getting the idea in the first place. To do that would be a violation or rights and big brother esque.
However we can do this another way, educate the public on proper values; manners, knowledge, respect for your elders and
tolerance. We can lower the poverty line as this would stop desperate people doing desperate things. Is it possible to do this?
The answer is yes, but this is a long term strategy not a short term one and it still wont reduce terrorism completely.
A few basic values can do alot in the fight against terrorism.

I beleive that is where the governments of the world are wrong, you can't fight terrorism, and you will only create more if you
try to fight it. The only way to stop terrorism is for people to tolerate each other, and that sure as hell isn't going to happen
any time soon, the mere fact that terrorism exists makes people tolerate each other less.
Anthony September 11th, 2003, 02:45 PM

"Is it possible to do this? The answer is yes, but this is a long term strategy"
And so it won't be implemented, as the PM who starts it will be out of office by the time the benefits start appearing. They
won't do something that won't further their own careers.

That's exactly why enviromental crap is doomed to failure.
Any politican who tries to implement it (meaning spending money for it) won't be around for when the payoff comes back, so
they have no motivation to do so, thus it doesn't happen.
Also, the eco-freaks need to learn to use technology to their advantage, not wish for some polly-anna neo-luddite society
where everyone wears hemp cloths, bikes to work, and works in a mud hut. :rolleyes:
Rather than trying to save the tigers from extinction by saving their habitat, which isn't going to happen because the land is
needed to feed the ever expanding hordes of muds in asia, they should use gen-tech to make them small and docile enough
to be pets. :)
Who wouldn't want a tame lion, tiger, or grizzly bear (all the size of a labrador retriever or smaller) as a pet?
This way, the species is preserved for possible future re-introduction, their numbers multiply, and they exist somewhere other
than a zoo.
Ugly and/or useless species get to die. :p
Really, is there any point in saving the manatee? The things are cows of the rivers, stupid as all hell, incapable of adapting to
any other enviroment, and generally just plain useless. Unless they become mini'd into something small enough to keep in a
pond like koi, they're doomed.

Some people do keep lions or tigers as pets, there is the drawback though that if they ever come into contact with human
blood then they have to be destroyed (It is strongly suspected that once a lion/tiger has tasted human blood, it will attack
humans).

Yes, some people do, but there's a world of difference between a 500 pound lion big enough to fit your head in its mouth, and
a dwarfed version small enough to carry in your arms.
500 pound lions are considered very dangerous (rightly so) and scare the shit out the neighbors, meaning expensive fencing/
permits/etc to keep one, if at all. If it was no bigger than a dog, and cute as hell, then you'd likely have no hassles keeping
one, especially since you'd be "doing your part to save an endangered species".
Either the eco-freaks back you up for keeping the lions gene pool alive, or they become hipocrites and admit that they don't
care about the survival of the lion species by making you get rid of it.
There's a dwarfed version of cat that gets no larger than a kitten at its largest size. The same techniques applied to lions/
tigers/cheetahs/bears/etc would make them palitible enough (read "cute enough") to keep as pets, thus ensuring the survival
of the species.

This is my first post so here goes :p
I simply think that story on the ABC is a load of crap. I know it is possible to do it, but come on. The article featured a
'qualified' shotfirer who "was surprised by the ease with which four amateurs managed to assemble such a device". Surely
being qualified in the field, he would know just how simple such a device would be to throw together. So, what, now they are
going to try and regulate the sale of ammonium nitrate fertiliser. What next, are they going to try and regulate knives and
forks? Or how bout the readily available materials that can be obtained at places such a supermarkets which can be used to
make a primitive biological device? I personally cant see how regulating things is going to prevent them being used in the
wrong way. Guns are supposed to be regulated here (Australia) yet the only thing it has achieved is removing weapons from
law abiding people and putting them in criminal hands. Instead of regulating and banning substances and objects, I
personally thing that there should be more educatation in the subjects. A good cop knows how to catch a criminal, because he
knows their methods and how they act. A pest control company knows how to kill pests, because they know how the pests act.
So doesnt it stand to reason that the one of the few ways to help reduce the amount of terrorist activity is to educate, not
scare, the public, or at least a selection of the public?
Anyways, I shal stop rambling now. I hope that in the future I can bring some good ideas to this forum.
VladiO September 14th, 2003, 03:37 PM

Well, one reason that AN will not get banned is that if that kind of proposition even arises as a thought at any level of
government, every single (legit and not-so-legit) fertilizer-producing firm would put up a massive protest or something of the
sort. Imagine Scott's, Hometurf, and all other big and small companies launching an appeal in saying the government is
unreasonably depriving these companies of business. Not only would the government of the country have wasted money in
having the bill passed, but an even greater amount in legal fees, possible settlements, compenastions, etc.
Similar to the government saying that through the use of available video games intended for entertainment purposes children
or terrorists can learn to fly planes, shoot guns, etc., they would be saying that through the use of available materials
intended for agricultural or other legal purposes children or terrorists can manufacture weapons.
If a person was really out to kill someone/wreak serious havoc, banning all the chemicals in the world would not help, as they
would just get them illegally.
One thing that I would agree with the government doing is saying something among the lines of "Publicly found information
on explosives/flammables is often misrepresented and is extremely dangerous when not produced in the right environment
with the right knowledge of what to do and how to do it". Using trained proffessionals on the other hand to make bombs out of
"household" items while using not-so-household materials (fuses/detonators/boosters) is just good old government and news
station propaganda to get ratings or make people believe in that is it is that easy to wreak so much havoc.
The 50kg bomb wasnt to impressive for its size either.
blindreeper September 14th, 2003, 09:14 PM

This is figures for the US, but I'm sure they would be rather similar to Australia -
The top 25 produced chems in the US in 1981 (it's old but it's out of my Chemistry Second edition by Raymond Chang and I
can't be bothered searching for the current figures)
1. Sulfuric acid
2. Ammonia
3. Nitrogen
4. Lime (Calcium oxide)
5. Oxygen
6. Ethylene
7. Chlorine
8. Sodium Hydroxide
9. Phosphoric acid
10. Nitric acid
11. Ammonium nitrate
12. Soda ash
13. Urea
14. Propylene
15. Toluene
16. Benzene
17. Ethylene Dichloride
18. Methanol
19. Carbon Dioxide
20. Ethylbenzene
21. Vinyl chloride
22. Styrene
23. Xylene (all three isomers)
24. Terephthalic acid
25. Formaldehyde
Basicly there is no way they will completely ban AN. The top 11th chemical...
And KNO3 isn't even on there! There is massive production of that stuff. It's used fertilizers, stump removers and farmers use
it if they don't want ammonium nitrate and it's NOT THERE!
These chems must be very mass produced...
I am not worried about it getting banned just it being harder to get!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Know ledge and Information > The Water Cooler > My computer w oes - any advice?
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View Full Version : My computer woes - any advice?
megalomania August 30th, 2003, 11:05 AM

I have been having trouble with Windows lately, so I reformatted my puny little drive and reinstalled Win 2000 pro. Unfortunatly I have been getting the same problem. This has
prompted to upgrade my harddrive. I have just purchased a nice WD 120GB 7200rpm drive and replaced my existing 3GB drive. It installed fine, and the window s CD loads all
the install files onto the drive. The problem I am having, after it finishes loading the files and reboots to load windows, nothing happens. All I get is a curser where it should then
proceed to load windows.
Does anyone happen to know why this is happening, or what I should do to make the damn thing work? The only solution I can forsee is perhaps I don't have the BIOS properly
configured like it says to do in the HD instructions. Unfortunatly I don't know the key combo to get into BIOS on my old Compaq system. Everything I try dosn't work, unless
perhaps I am typing it too slow . I put my old drive back in for now , but it is oh so small :( I'd hate to take my computer in to the shop and pay $30 for them to change a few
things in BIOS that I could easily do myself if only I knew what I w as doing.

You can't get to the bios by jabbing the delete key w hen your computers POSTs?

Besides DEL, F1 and F2 (and perhaps even ESC) are common keys to enter the BIOS. If that doesn't work, just try the other F-Keys :)
Sparky August 30th, 2003, 02:10 PM

So you are currently posting using your 3 gig drive which works, but is too small for you? Or is Windows not booting up on your 3 gig drive either?
From your descripition of the problem I personally don't think that it has anything to do with your BIOS. By the time Windows is booting up the BIOS is finished w ith. I
recommend installing a different version of window s or maybe just using a different CD of Windows 2000 since the one you have may be screwed up. In any case Microsoft has
a huge database of problems associated w ith windows, and this one is probably on there so you could try and figure it out from there.
If your 3 gig drive boots up fine then just install the 120 gig drive as a second hard drive. Then you don't waste your 3 gig one. IIRC from w hen I did this, all you have to do is
plug both hard drives in, and set the jumpers on each. The jumpers are little pins on the back w hich you connect together (short) with a little plastic bit. The jumpers tell the
computer w hat role the hard drive has. Your 3 gig (the one you boot from) has to be set to master, and the other to slave. Then you boot up and install the driver for your 120
gig drive. The BIOS is probably already set to automatically detect hard drives as long as the jumpers are set, so you shouldn't have to change anything in there.
Usually when you boot up, there is a small line of text that says what button to push to enter BIOS setup. If there isn't one you could try looking in your motherboard manual for
how to get in.

Sparky's idea is probably the best, but just to add on a little, if you're going to use both the hard drives, I would suggest installing w indows on the 3 gig drive, and putting
nothing else on it at all, and storing all of your files on the other drive, it w ould improve performance slightly.
However, if you really want to get the other drive working, it can probably be done too. It seems like maybe it's set to boot from the w rong device, you can change this in the
BIOS(if you haven't figured out how to get into the BIOS yet from the advice of the other posts, then I can't help you there). Also you might want to check to make sure that
the pins on the hard drive are set-up correctly, if you're going to use the 120gb as the boot drive, then it should be setup as a master.
Another thing, is the screen completely blank when it stops going? and what kind of cursor is it(i.e. normal w indows cursor, or crappy looking blocky cursor)?
ALENGOSVIG1 August 30th, 2003, 04:16 PM

I've got a tip that will fix ANY window s problem. Format your hard drive and install linux. :D
Putting all of your files that are accesed during boot time on the slow er 5400 rpm hard drive with slow seek times (unless your 3 gig is 7200 rpm, w hich is very unlikely) w ould
DECREASE your performance. You should have the OS on the highest performing disk.
Since you have a 3g hard drive, im guessing your system is quite old. In some older systems, the bios can't properly detect large drives like the 120. I have some old OptiPlex
G1's and they detect large IDE disks as 8gb EIDE disks and nothing w orks properly.
Try flashing your bios to the latest revision.
megalomania August 30th, 2003, 04:46 PM

It turns out that older Compaq systems do not have BIOS on the motherboard at all. Instead you have to load up a special 2 boot disk utilities disk when starting up the
computer to run the utilities. I accessd the BIOS from this utility and saw that the confoguration is set properly. What I w ill try is setting my HD jumper from cable select to
master and seeing if that w ork as I too suspect it is not looking at the disk. The cursor I get is just a flashing underline _ and nothing else. This is the line you w ould get without
any kind of OS, DOS etc.
I think the current problems I am having on my system are related to my modem. Some months back there was a power outage and my modem was damaged, it will not hang
up. I have to physicially pull the phone cord out to reset the phone to be able to dial, otherwise it acts like a phone off the hook. It's very annoying, but I haven't gotten a new
card. Just recently my current problems started after yet another power failure. The problems start when the program "svchost.exe" fails. This prog only fails w hen I start the
modem (dial up my ISP). The prog usually crashes a few minutes later after logging on. Usually I connect to the net right away after a reboot, and in a few minutes the
program has its error. Subsequently I left my computer run for an hour or two after booting and didn't get the error. I ran just Internet Explorer with connecting and it ran fine
for some time, until I connected. Finially I connected to download service pack 4 and also eventiually got the error. So I am pretty sure it is the modem causing trouble.
The funny thing is I have a new modum, but I can't make it fit in my PCI slot. There is a small metal tab in the w ay that just barely keeps me from pushing it in. I may have to
dremel the back of the case away. Or I could just buy a new damn computer. This is actually why I bought the hard drive, it's the first component of my new system that I am
building from scratch. Anyw ay, off I go to change jumpers.
nbk2000 August 30th, 2003, 08:01 PM

Your old computer may not be able to recognize such a large drive. Likely, the drive is default set to LBA mode, rather than the older CHS mode which your system requires.
Since you got a Western Digital drive, download the drive utility from their site, and use it to find the CHS equivelants to input into your BIOS. That should make it viewable at
least.
Next, partition the drive into 6GB chunks, using the windows startup disk "FDISK" utility. Make the entire disk a DOS partition, then divide it up into the chunks using the
"Extended Disk Partition" option. Make the first partition bootable. Then make sure that your drive jumpers are set with your 3GB drive on the end of the cable and set for
Master, and the new drive on the middle cable connector set for Slave.
Be sure your BIOS is set to boot first from the 3GB drive, w hich may be labeled "HDD0".

Another thing you might w ant to check out, is what format your drives are in. A system as old as yours, might not support NTFS, so make sure that when you install windows
you format the drives using FAT32.
The program "svchost.exe" is a w indows service. I can't tell you which one, as they all run as the process svchost.exe, however, there are an incredible number of excess
services that w indows runs by default, which you can turn off in control panel. Here is an excellent guide as to what you can/should and can't/shouldn't turn off http://
w w w.blackviper.com/WinXP/service411.htm . That guide is designed for XP users, but you should still be able to follow it. Even if turning off the services doesn't solve the
problem, it will increase perfomance enormously, not to mention security and privacy(some of the services allow microsoft remote access to your registry).
ALENGOSVIG1: Yes, you're quite right, it will decrease performance if the 3gb drive is slower than the 120gb, which is quite likely. But it will increase performance in that the OS
and the data are on seperate partitions. You could also just partition the 120gb drive to do the same thing, w hich would be the best way to go.
FrankRizzo August 31st, 2003, 01:50 AM

megalomania: That svchost.exe failure sounds a lot like fallout from the Blaster w orm. Since you're running win2k and the problem seems to occur after you get connected, I'd
be willing to bet good money that your machine is crashing because of RPC requests from others infected machines querying yours. Check the add/remove programs section of
control panel. Does the close button have a funky spelling on it? If so, you definitely have a problem. Download the blaster fix from Mcafee: http://download.nai.com/products/
mcafee-avert/stinger.exe That should fix your svchost problem, and then go to http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com and get the latest updates.
megalomania August 31st, 2003, 11:09 AM

It turns out I did indeed have the blaster worm :( Thanks for that program FrankRizzo! Does that apply the patch to prevent reinfection, or just rid your system of the worm?
I consulted a higher power on my harddrive and came to the consensus that my system is just too old to recognize such a large hard drive. I have added it as a second
harddrive and it seems to work fine. I will try to keep the small harddrive free of as much stuff as possible to reserve it just for w indow s.
a_bab August 31st, 2003, 11:49 AM

I've also got the Blaster, but the first issue i noticed w as the lack of copy/paste. Then I noticed I can't drag and drop. And finally, the Add/remove problem.
FrankRizzo August 31st, 2003, 05:07 PM

No prob man...glad I could help. The stinger program removes the w orm program and turns off access to the RPC (remote procedure call) service in win2k, which is w hat is
being exploited for the worm to function. You will still need to d/l the latest service pack from Microsoft to finish the procedure.
Flake2m September 1st, 2003, 06:23 AM

Mega: you made one of the same mistakes as me w hen it comes to computers.
NEVER BUY A COMPAQ OR HP PC.
Our family bought an HP computer about 3 years ago. It w as fairly fine for the first 18 months then w hen I realised i neede to upgrade the bloody thing it just wasn't possible.
Firstly the case was too small to fit a new motherboard, the PSU wasn't powerful enough, the motherboard w as a Slot-A duron as w ell a host of other problems. So in the end i
decided to save up and buy my ow n computer, starting from scratch.
I ended up buying a very capable XP2200, 512mb RAM and motherboard for AU$750. All in all in all I have spent about AU$1200 on a case, PSU, Drive and graphics card. If you
need some new hardw are do your homework and find out what you want and how much it'll cost.
I am amazed that your 3gb HDD is enough run windows. Most people have atleast a 10gb partion to run window s these days.
a_bab September 1st, 2003, 07:26 AM

Why 3 Gb wouldn't be enough ? Windows will take in the worst case up to 1 Gb (with lots of temps files, drivers, you know, when it gets cluttered). The installed programs (not
games, of course) coud add another gigabyte. So you are left with 1 gb, unless installing large games, having several movies/mp3's and so on.
I also have a 3,2 Gb hdd and I have win2k on it, without problems. I store the media and the rest of my stuff on a larger hdd though.
nbk2000 September 1st, 2003, 03:17 PM

I've had windows dow n to under 80 megabytes, so you don't need a huge ass drive to run it, unless you're running some kind of bloatw are like Office 2000. :)
megalomania September 1st, 2003, 06:28 PM

ACK! The program didn't take, there are virii everywhere acording to my new install of McAfee. Even that program I downloaded has become infected. I have no idea how to
put out this fire, I half wonder if my win 2000 CD isn't itself possibly infected with something. This w orm is hiding somewhere and reinfecting the system. I guess I had better
reformat and reinstall window s again and start from scratch :(
How in the hell is it smart enough to infect stinger.exe? Is it possible this worm is running so rampant that as soon as I connect to the internet in gets me and corrupts the
system before I can download the patch?
Rhadon September 1st, 2003, 07:20 PM

If you can get access to a second computer w hich has an antivirus program installed on it, I'd suggest to take the infected HD out of your computer, put it into the other PC and
clean it. I did this a few times and it did always work without any problems.
a_bab September 1st, 2003, 07:20 PM

Well, I had the same problems. I even reinstalled win2k only to get the same problems again. So what I did was to install a MS patch (the w orm remove tool didn't find
anything)
Check this link (http://ww w.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Win2000/Q_20707803.html)
nbk2000 September 2nd, 2003, 12:16 AM

Mega, have you tried installing from the Win2K disk I sent you? That's sterile. And you really shouldn't install ANYTHING other than the O/S till you've got the anti-virus installed
and running. I'm assuming you're installing only from manufacturers discs, and not from any CD-R media?
Anthony September 2nd, 2003, 07:19 AM

Turns out the Blaster Worm w as w hat was causing problems on my machine too.
Fresh install of win2k, all my shit installed and then I have to use fucking AOL for 5 minutes to get online to sign up for a half decent ISP, and I've got it. Fucking AOL, fucking
win2k!
I've run the antivirus program , but as mega says it comes straight back. Unfortnately I can't just install the patch, because I need service pack 4 first, which is too large for me
to download. Thankfully someone is lending me a CD copy.
I like the w ay the microsoft website states that you're not vulnerable to the worm if:
a) you have the latest service pack and have installed the patch.
b) you're running w in95 or win98
Another case of Win98SE ruling all over the place :)
BTW, the accusations tow ards AOL are NOT exagerated, if anything it's worse than people say. I honestly wouldn't use it even if it w ere completely free. I had to reinstall
Internet explorer to completely remove it (after uninstalling it).:mad:
Rhadon September 2nd, 2003, 07:54 AM

Just out of interest: Did those of you who got infected use a firewall?
megalomania September 2nd, 2003, 04:59 PM

Looks like I survived the storm (demons of this computer I exorcise thee!). The damn patch won't install unless you have service pack 2, by the time you download the service
pack you'll probably get reinfected which w ill flub the install of the pack :mad: Fortunatly I was able to get pack 2 installed after I exorcised my demons and before I got his
again. Thus I patched my system and am now running well. What an ordeal this has been!
3 weeks ago I said to someone "I actually want to get the blaster worm since it tries to hack Microsoft." I'm eating crow with that statement. Now of course everyone know s
the code was ineptly written to begin with and tried to hack the wrong address. And of course there are all the other problems it causes.
nbk2000 September 2nd, 2003, 05:01 PM

Since w e're discussing computer problems...
I finally got the Win2K service pack 2 dow nloaded, via DUN'd Juno (only took 3 days :rolleyes: ), and now the bastard w on't install! :mad:
The file isn't corrupted, rather, the installer uses my F: drive (which is on a different HDD) as the temp drive for unpacking even though C:\TEMP is set in the variables for that
purpose, and then I get an error message saying that the files failed to copy to F:\.
I formatted the C drive, reinstalled the O/S from CD, and got the bugger to w ork, but then it won't boot while I have my other HDD connected! I have two hard drives, so I can
back up files from one to the other, and the idea of having to unplug one drive so I can use the other is unacceptable.
A possible problem is that the drive controllers think the IDE drives are SCSI, which they're not, but it still works. I tried re-installing the motherboard IDE controller drivers, and it
didn't help.
Any suggestions? BTW, the other O/S on my other drive is Win98SE, and I'm only futzing about with Win2K because I have to have it in order to use Acrobat 6.
Nihilist September 2nd, 2003, 08:14 PM

You can't have two seperate drives hooked up that both think they are the boot drive. They will literally fight with each other over it, and it doesn't turn out very well for the
user. You w ill have to install a bootloader of some kind like LILO or bootmagic, or the like. Also you might want to check in your BIOS to make sure that it is set to boot off of
the correct physical drive(logical partitions are meaningless here).
nbk2000 September 3rd, 2003, 12:43 AM

Obviously I needed to clarify a few points.
Each drive is on it's ow n IDE channel, both are set to MASTER on the end of their respective cables, w ith the SLAVES being a CD-RW and DVD drive.
Which drive boots first is handled by the BIOS. I've been using dual drives for the last few years, and know how to configure that part. :p
The drive I've got Win2K installed on is the primary drive on the primary IDE channel, with the 98 drive being on the secondary IDE channel.
I have the BIOS set to boot to HDD1 (Win98), which then gets me a bootup menu to either 2K (default, on HDD0) or 98.
Like I've said, I've gotten it to work w hen 2K was installed on the primary drive, without the secondary drive connected, but that means having only one drive connected at a
time, because I can't startup either O/S w hen they're both connected, and I'm not tolerating that.
++ ++++ +++ +++
Well, the above is now all moot, since I've got it to work. :)
I unistalled the Win2K UDMA driver that was default loaded by the MB setup, and installed the 98 version instead, and now it works. :D
Acrobat 6 looks good. Though there's a slight problem with it, since it won't let me edit PDF's that I digitally signed, since the imported keys aren't considered mine", thus I can't
remove them. :mad: Meaning I got to keep the old version 4 to remove the signatures from my ow n fucking files! :rolleyes:
I tried the JPEG2000 compression on one of my gem books. It reduced it by about 15%. Not astronomical by any means, but then again I wasn't setting it for maximum
compression since I'm keeping the picture resolution as high as possible, given the nature of the subject matter. ;)
To the person who asked, the serials worked, but not the keygens. Also, the service pack was so large because I don't have a modem driver that's 2K compatible, so no net
connection when using 2K, thus no net install. Besides which, the network installation version has EVERYTHING in it, so I don't have to futz about w ith multiple net installs if I
change something later. :)
Jumala September 5th, 2003, 09:32 PM

Perhaps the problem is already solved now but I want to tell my know ledge about compaq and large harddrives.
Older PCs also compaq can only support 8,4 GB (newer 32GB) harddrives.
The BIOS is unable to detect and to handle larger drives.
The compaq BIOS is stored in a 256 KB service partition on the harddrive.
If this partition was removed by fdisk or other programms the PC dont w ork anymore
and it is hard to remake this partition.
In standart PCs (BIOS on board) it is easy to overcome this problem using a PCI controller card with ow n BIOS (Promise or Highpoint) but compaq dont w ork with service
partitions on external controlled drives.
So you must use the 3 GB primary with on board controller and the 120 GB w ith a promise controller.
Win 2k can only support 80 GB direkt. 120 GB needs the "biglba=1" line in the registry. Perhaps a new servicepack can solve the problem too.
The programm "registry system wizard" can also make these changes to the registry.
I have dow nloaded it here (sorry only german language)
download (http://www .soft-ware.net/system/steuerung/tuning/p02950.asp)
I hope it helps.

Well, I could get service pack 4 to install, some fucked up error about compatibility, or my O/S or the pack being free and the other not or some such bullshit.
So I did the ultimate patching and installed win98 - over the top of win2k :)
I had a cool hybrid of the two OSs, unfortunately nothing worked...
So format, install win98, reinstall all my shit, a lot of effort but at least I'm back up to speed.
I wasn't using a firewall, never have and haven't really had a problem. I might try one though. Can anyone recommend the firewall included w ith PGP, or another piece of free
(or freely available) piece of software?
Rhadon September 6th, 2003, 08:44 AM

I don't have experience w ith the PGP firew all, but Sygate Personal Firewall is a very good one. Unfortunately it's not free. When the Forum FTP is back up, I could make it free,
though :). Zone Alarm is a free firewall, but I don't like that one, most probably because it didn't give you much security in earlier versions (don't know how it's with the latest
version).
ALENGOSVIG1 September 6th, 2003, 02:05 PM

IPtables..
FCUK September 6th, 2003, 08:30 PM

ALENGOSVIG1, said program is for Linux. And it seems most are running either Windows 98(SE?) or Windows 2000 Professional.
However, At Guard is a good firew all for a Window s machine. And you can download it at: www .stophack.ru

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Som e hunting pictures of m ine.
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View Full Version : Some hunting pictures of mine.
DBSP August 30th, 2003, 05:05 PM

I just though t I'd post them , s o m e o n e m ight like them .
http://w1.478.telia.co m / ~ u 4 7 8 0 4 0 0 9 /
The first is a roedeer buck I shot 2 weaks ago with my M98(8x57IS, 196gr(12g) Norm a Oryx, Vo 770 m/s) equipped with a
H e l i a 3 - 1 2 x 5 6 scope and a timney trigger.
T h e s e c o n d o n e i s f o x y o u n g s t e r I s h o t last sunday at 40m with the same rifle.

The third one is a sibbling to the first fox shot the day after the first one was shot, range 60m .
Got som e a d ditional pics as well from the last 2 years, If anyone would like m e t o I c a n d i g t h e m u p a n d p o s t t h e m to.
I haven't got photoshop installed right now so the pics are uncom p r e s s e d .
From now on m y presence here will be close to norm al. I haven't had any tim e at all the last couple of weaks but things have
cleared out a bit by now. I've started u p a few things I've had on hold today too.

Quite nice:) If you can find them , I would love to see som e of the pictures from the past:)
Once again, quite nice:)
Flake2m August 31st, 2003, 08:59 AM

W ere those poor defenceless animals *sniggers* moving when they were shot?
Trying to hit a m oving fox at 40 or 60m isn't known to be easy, though judging from from the exit wounds they didn't feel
m uch after the bullet ripped though there heart. Next have a go shooting them in the hea d and take a picture - a h e a d l e s s f o x
alwa ys is worth lookin g at.
F o x e s a r e f e r a l a n d a pest in O z so we n e e d m o r e p e o p l e s h o o t i n g t h e m .
DBSP August 31st, 2003, 09:21 AM

I never shoot at anything that is m oving unless it is very close o r if they are already wounded. O n e e x e p t i o n is if I've got m y
s h o t g u n . I n e v e r s h o o t a n y a n i m als in the head because of the large risk of only wounding them , I s h o o t a r o e d e r i n t h e h e a d
with my 22LR once though but that was only 10 m from the place I was hiding(very illegal by the way).
I'll dig those old pics up as so on as I can, perh aps later tonight. I'm off to work in a few m inutes so I can't do it right away,
after work I'll probably take a trip to the woods if it isn't already dark when I finish.
DBSP August 31st, 2003, 03:46 PM

I've just finished picking out 42 out of 3307 pictures which where located in 67 different folders, took me 20 minutes.
They are now located at the sam e adress as the other but in the new folder.
nbk2000 August 31st, 2003, 11:36 PM

R e m ember Lowry's cat killing file? Have you tried making som e m ini-claymores and riggin g t h e m u p t o b l a s t t h e a n im al when
they pull on the bait? A point-blank ex plosion propelling som e shot at several thousand M/S should have an interesting effect
on a foxes (or deers) body. :)
DBSP S e p t e m b e r 1 st, 2003, 02:46 AM

I h a v e n o t y e t d e c i d e d b u I m ight very well try a minim ore os so m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t n e x t w e a k e n d . W h e n I g e t h o m e f r o m
school doday I'm off to work to collect a roedeer which isn't good enaugh t o b e e a t e n b y h u m a n s , a n d t h e r e f o r e h a s b e e n
discarded off, I'll put it in a nice spot in the woods so th at the ra vens (my sworn enemies) can find it. Next friday in the early
m orning m e a n d a f r i e n d i s g o i n g t h e r e t o s h o o t s o m e o f t h e m , it's illegal to kill them bu there are two ma ny so I don't give a
fuck. Thing is next saturday or sunday I'm going there too, either alone or with m y brothe r and then thare is a grea t chance a
b o o m m ight be heard ;) . I'll do my best to try to m ake a device that alowes m e to film the blast through a cople of
bino culars, giving us a close u p of the event.
I'll let you know if I m a k e a n y p r o g r e s s .
Cyclonite S e p t e m b e r 1 st, 2003, 07:23 AM

The pic with the pile of deer, was that one days worth of kills? Thats alot of meat
DBSP S e p t e m b e r 1 st, 2003, 08:06 AM

Yes and no, it was a pic from the place I work at. I belive it was about 60 animals all together. They cam e from a place that
a r a n g e s l a r g e h u n t i n g s ( p e r h a p s 4 0 p e o p l e ) w h e r e y o u h a v e t o p a y a l o t o f m o n e y t o t a k e part of it. In other words only snobs
h a d s h o t t h o s e a n i m als. I belive thay had been hunting for 2 days before we wen t to pic those up.
W hen we hunt roedeer we are usually lucky if we shoot any, perhaps 1 or 2 per weakend(sometim e s n o t e v e n a s i n g l e o n e ) , i f
we have been hunting with dogs.
EMU S e p t e m b e r 1 0th, 2003, 07:52 AM
You should try pig hunting in far north queensland (Australia) sometim e. :) There are a lot of different ways to go about it, but
i've found that the one with th e biggest adrenalin rush to it is where you load up a ute with dogs, drive out into a banana
paddock or anywhere that has a recent hole where they (the pigs) have been rolling in. Le t t h e d o g s o f f , a n d c h a s e a f t e r t h e m
in the ute. W hen the dogs get the pig (and you will know, there will be a sudden increase in the amount of barking you hear
a n d p r o b a b l y a l o t o f s q u e a l i n g too) you jum p o u t o f t h e u t e a n d r u n u p t o t h e p i g ( w h e n t h e d o g s h a v e a g o o d h o l d o f i t a n d
it can't m ove ) and tip it on its back by lifting one of its front legs and pushing on the sholder. You then stab it in the heart with
a o n e m ofo big arse knife and slit its throat. This emoticon doesn't com e c l o s e t o e x p r e s s i n g t h e f e e l i n g o f e x c i t e m e n t a n d
the adrenalin rush that hits you: :D
Also m akes you feel pretty da m n m a c h o t o o . : p
T h i s i s b e s t d o n e f r o m d u s k a nd right through the dark, although you can do it during the day. Pig b o d i e s c a n b e s o l d a n d
alm ost all parts of it can be used in so me way or another. (Skin = leathe r, bones = "Blood & Bone" Fertilizer, O rgans =
sausages, flesh = food :D, etc...)
DBSP S e p t e m b e r 1 0th, 2003, 08:58 AM

W e've got the pigs here as well. Only about 5km from where I hunt they have recently shot pigs. The past few years the
a m mount of pigs have dramatically increased, I think there are about 20000 pigs in Sweden now.
As a m atter of fact I took care of two pigs (50kg each without internal organs, leg s, skin h ead) last night at the butcher shop
where I work.
D o g s h u n t o i n g p i g s l i v e s o m e d a n g e r o us lives, I know of several dog that have gotten their stoma chs slit open by pigs, som e
have been killed as well.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Adobe acrobat help
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wrench352 August 30th, 2003, 05:09 PM

I cam e u p o n a g r e a t c h e m istry textbook in .pdf format(if anyone wants it I share on kazaa)Organic chemistry by mcgraw-
hill.Its huge around 80mbs unzipped.Mcgraw-hill tinkered with acrobat so I cant print it.Does anyone know how to crack it to
m ake it a printable text?fooled around with it som e a n d g o t a " o p e r a t i o n is not permitted".is there anyway around this?
nbk2000 August 30th, 2003, 08:05 PM

Normally I'm all for busting co py protection, but since m y DVD is going in to PDF format, I'm not go ing for it here!
Yes, it is possible to bypass PDF access restrictions, but I'm n o t g o i n g t o h e l p y o u , a n d n e i t h e r i s a n y o n e e l s e h e r e .
If you apply yourself to developing your own internet se arch skills, rather than asking us to spoonfeed you the info, you can
find out how to do it yourself.
As it is, this topic is closed.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > VCR to DVD
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View Full Version : VCR to DVD
green beret September 2nd, 2003, 06:41 AM

Hi all.
I need a couple of VCR tapes converted to DVD, for the sake of permanently preserving the footage. There is a local person who can do it but would probably report me to the
police. A friend can also do it, but she too can't be trusted. So, I would like to know if an Aussie would like to help me out, I would pay for CD's etc, and the person would
probably need some type of fake address, for their own safety. These videos are mostly pyro, but even that is enough to land me in serious trouble. So if anyone would like to
help (I'm not really expecting anyone to) I would be very grateful.
Failing this, (and buying my own equipment) does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could get these copied without getting busted? Perhaps I could "persuade"
someone to do it and keep their mouths shut, I dont know. Like I said, I'm not expecting anyone to do it for me, someone will undoubtedly flame me, but it cant hurt to try
right?
Thanks all.
metafractal September 2nd, 2003, 10:25 AM

I have a dvd burner, and I feel that I dont contribute enough to this forum. So, I would be happy to help. I am very busy for the next two weeks. But then, we can arrange
something and I will burn your footage immediately. If there is any way that you can conceive of to confirm that I am not a cop, that does not endanger my safety, please
suggest it and I will do so. I live in Victoria. In two weeks time expect an email. If you need them before then, I am afraid I cannot help you.

Why not buy a DVD burner, make the copies, then send it back for a refund claiming "incompatilble with my system"? ;)
kingspaz September 2nd, 2003, 06:29 PM

nbk, thats a much better idea than the original. asking help from somebody here could turn bad. whos to say a pig whos a member here won't try and 'help'?
Nihilist September 2nd, 2003, 08:07 PM

You could also make a VCD or SVCD, which both play in most DVD players(yes the formats vary considerably and some DVD players don't play a lot of them, I know), and all
you need is a CD burner. Although, i'm not quite sure how you would plan on getting the VHS information onto your computer, since I think that requires some very special
equipment.
ALENGOSVIG1 September 2nd, 2003, 09:55 PM

Dont you just need a video capture card?
GibboNet September 2nd, 2003, 10:22 PM

Unfortunately, I still don't have my DVD burner, though I can now get one at $350 AUD. I could put it to VCD / SVCD, but I don't have a capture card. If you have the money,
get a capture card. If you don't, save up $150 and buy a VCR connector. it plugs into a USB port, and allows you to then connect your VCR / TV to the computer for capture.
Like I said, they're only $150, so if you shop around, you'll get it for $100 or less.
I've always wanted one, so I'll look at buying one. If I can, then i would be happy to convert the tapes to SVCD for you. (I dislike VCD, not good enough quality) SVCD plays
on nearly all DVD players nowadays, and is very good quality.
Maybe use NBK's method to get access to a DVD burner instead. Actually, you might be lucky enough to find a local computer club that offers loan of an external DVD burner...
They do that near here for CD burners etc. I might enquire whether they now have DVD or capture devices, in which case I may be able to help.
green beret September 3rd, 2003, 01:32 AM

Thanks very much guys! I will look forwrard to your email metafractal, I still dont know if I will go through with personal contact from a forumite, but still email me anyhow.
I like your idea nbk, I had considered that but realised I would need a capture card etc, which is what my untrustworhty friend has. Maybe I'll just save up or scam it somehow,
I'm in no hurry really, but theres high humidity where I live, which causes tapes to go mouldy over time. It also makes it hard when working with AN.
I'll see what I can do, but Gibbonet, could you stay in touch anyway.
Cheers all, I appreciate your help.:)
nbk2000 September 3rd, 2003, 02:50 AM

There's a paradox here:
The Freman have a saying that "You should not keep company with those you would not want to die with".
Machiavellian thinking says that "No one can be trusted, especially friends".
But, being humans, we can resolve paradoxes. The solution is thus;
Since you can't trust anyone, don't, but don't let them know this. Instead, let them think that you are their friend, when you're simply using them for your own ends. :)
Though, really, if you can't trust them enough not to rat you out for pyro tapes, than you should cut them lose, because RTPB "Known Losers" says that rats (and potential
rats) are known losers, thus sure to bring you down. :(
Anyhows, what's to say you can't get the videocard at the same time (but different place ;)) as the DVD drive? In fact, if you already have a CD burner, you don't need the
DVD, just the capture card. Capture the video to an MPG file, apply DIVX or RM compression, and burn to CD. :)
Wetware should be able to out-think hardware, don't you think? ;)
J September 3rd, 2003, 06:09 AM

A TV card works fine for capturing video using the composite video input. You can pick these up secondhand for 10 or so. If you want to capture to MPEG2 (SVCD/DVD) then
you'll want one with an S-Video input, which will cost you a bit more. But if you only have standard VHS tapes, there's not much point.

If you have any Display card that has an s-video input port, you could connect it to your VCR to record the Tapes digitally on your comp. If you have a Riva TNT / TNT2 /
GeForce / GeForce2/ Geforce 3 card with an s-video input, you can use the Asus live video utility to record from the s-video input.
metafractal September 13th, 2003, 01:56 AM
Green Beret, what email adress might I contact you on?
metafractal September 15th, 2003, 05:51 AM

Sorry, I hate to double post, but are you around Green Beret? I need an email adress with which I can contact you to arrange this!
Rhadon September 15th, 2003, 06:08 AM

Metafractal, why don't you email him here (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/member.php?action=mailform&userid=260)?
darkdontay September 15th, 2003, 06:32 PM

You might try anfd find some local computer gaming stores, ones that have game station rooms, usualy ran by pipmle faced 13 years olds.. anyways all the ones around here
have atleast one staion hooked up to a TV screen for thier CS gaming nights and what have you.. I have manged to get alot of stuff doen over their by just asking and offering
a couple dollars (700+kbps, and a Burner (1$ a CD) have managed to start stocking up my archive of information and software)
Anyways point being usualy if you look hard enough you can find the things you need around town and people will to help 9By tuning around) if you give the a buck or two.
++++++++++++++++++
This is your post on drugs.
Any questions? ;)
NBK

I agree with Nihilist.
I have converted all of my s-vhs cassettes to the VCD (video-CD) format with this stuff:
1. a cheap old GForce graphics card with s-video input
2. the freeware capture program VirtualDub
3. the freeware AVI-to-VCD converter TMPEnc.
You can burn the VCD movies onto cheap CD-Rs and play them on most DVD players.
Do you know the movie "hollow man"?

I have captured the nice flame thrower/fire extinguisher scene via my graphics card and then ripped some pictures to show the quality you can get with this cheap method.
Since "hollow man" is an action movie, you'll see some motion blur :) The pics are in raw format... not manipulated in contrast, brightness, colour, gamma etc.
Fire Extinguisher From Hell (http://jellybelly84.tripod.com/flames) :D

My favorite scene in that movie was when he went invisible and was groping the redheads boob. The way the titty was moving around was very interesting. ;)
If you could could do a screen capture of that, that'd be worth downloading. :D

Load the animated .GIF completely and enjoy the endless groping :D
Tits for NBK2000 only!!! (http://jellybelly84.tripod.com/tits)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > O ptimising A TNP Detonation
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View Full Version : Optimising A TNP Detonation
Sonny Jim S e p t e m b e r 3 rd, 2003, 01:08 PM

Most of my experience with secondary HE's com es in the form of NG and AN comp dets. But I'm not well up on TNP at all. I
k n o c k e d m yself up a batch, and everything went well, but as far as actua lly deton ating it is concerned an unfortunate dobt
remains.
M y m a i n q u e stion is should I press it to a high density or not? I dont im a g i n e m uch prim ary will be needed to detonate it, but
advice there is welcome also.
P l e a se don't tell me to m ake lead picrate, DDNP, amm onium picrate, etc. I am doing a synth for m y site and want to have a
straight TNP video to show people what it does. Cheers. SJ.
Chemical_burn S e p t e m b e r 3 rd, 2003, 06:08 PM

Hm m intresting I wou ld recom e n d m aking videos of pre ssed TNP and just tam ped TNP to show the difference in power and to
show the diference in amout of primary needed to achieve full det.
TNP is a very good explosive I have used it twice before but never in large am ounts as they were for booster about 20g each.
They were unpressed. I used them for ANFO charges. Very nice and fun wish I took pics of the dets tho but didnt ha ve a cam
at the tim e .
I w o u l d l o v e t o o s e e s o m e pics and de signs of TNP SC's and LSC as I think these would workd won ders for sm all SC 's for locks
and the like.
ok well thats my suggestion.
vulture S e p t e m b e r 1 7th, 2003, 12:48 PM

P l e a se don't tell me to m ake lead picrate, DDNP, amm onium picrate, etc. I am doing a synth for m y site and want to have a
straight TNP video to show people what it does. Cheers. SJ.
I'm not following you here. Yo u say you need a prim ary, why not use a picrate salt then, as you'll only need a bit of TNP?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > AstroWars
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chemwarrior September 5th, 2003, 09:15 PM

This is just a new thread for the "Games" one.. the other is getting a bit long, and with the start of the next astrowars 'session'
being tommorrow, I think its needed!!:D
Sam September 6th, 2003, 12:27 AM

Tomorrow? Aww, I was beginning to enjoy it and now I have to start over again. Oh well.
I have a couple of questions about the game too.
1. How long does it take until they reset it again? Or do they reset it whenever they make a new patch?
2. Also, does the starmap centre on the sector you start off in?
Thanks in advance.
chemwarrior September 6th, 2003, 01:47 AM

It restarts when a player hits a highscore of 500 and maintains at least 500 for a week.
zaibatsu September 6th, 2003, 09:11 AM

Tomorrow, are you sure of that? When I load up Astrowars it says that the new one will start in 11 days.

Its 11, I think we should form a tight alliance. Theres a good number of forum members playing, we would be pretty powerful.
Also I found out a good way to get a great start, make 2 accounts. 1 right after another. You should be placed in the same
system, as soon as possible attack your other account once the other account has a fleet not a star base strong enough to
defeat the fleet, get the SPs from the battle and sell them for PP. You will get a nice head start and with the PP from the SP
you can kill the other 2 in the system with some battleships. Use the trade screen to transfer the $ as you see fit. Transfer the
$ to the player with the higher level and attack the one with the lower level since it takes less points to get levels...anyways im
sure you get the idea. Kill the other 2 players before they catch on and report you for 2 accounts.....
About the fleet instead of starbase...

Also when you sell your SP and but PP they go to your first planet (As you may know) unless its under siege. You can put the
ships from your other player in orbit of the planet not to recieve the points after you move your defense...That way you can
build your weaker planets up without waiting
BrAiNFeVeR September 6th, 2003, 12:20 PM

For a little more agressive tactics:
If we all join in at about the same time in the new game, we're likely to be placed near to each other, giving the Roguesci
Alliance a mighty base in the galaxy :)
It all depends on how the gameplay is changed ofcourse.
Also I would suggest waiting a bit before joining. The first 200 something players to join will not be noobs and the core of the
new galaxy will likely be full of battle ...
I was thinking to wait 2-3 days before we all (massively) join in, and start our quest to take over the core of the galaxy :)
Is there something known about the changes between beta 2 and the new beta 3 ?
angelo September 6th, 2003, 09:31 PM

they were thinking about either getting rid of the transfer money option or limit the amount of money one can transfer.
I hope they don't change it to much. Its good the way it is.

I think the placement gos in order till the system fills then a random system is selected and filled again. It would be good for
2 members to be in one system but no more.
Arthis September 8th, 2003, 04:48 AM

OK, a few thoughts before you start dreaming.
First, creating several accounts can lead to banning, never wondered why there were 'unknown' user in some star systems ?
Second, you keep your account, so for example my account on beta 2 was Keref, I can still log in with username and old
password. You can keep playing until the beta 3 starts.
Third, I've seen what happened when too many players allied (6): the 2 better destroy everyone, and the other do not
develop well, so that's not a really good idea.
Instead of making big alliances, or trying to make some (as we will be scattered on the map, due to old accounts I think), try
to level up your starbase, it's the only thing that will protect you effectively against strong ennemy fleets (I have a lvl 17
starbase, and noone attacked me there :) )

While the thought of other forum members doing the dirty and going back on their promises may be a problem for you, I
don't think Angelo, Kingspaz and I need to worry about it ;)
Seriously though, I don't see why people break alliances - there's lots of other planets to colonise, I had the problem of too
many planets, not enough culture, and if you look around there are lots of other people to attack. Unfortunately no-one was
around me :( I think it would be a good idea to try and branch towards each other if we know we are around each other.
I agree that starbases are the way to go, you spend a lot less than ships and get more defence points. Also, when it gets
really expensive to upgrade, just save money and use SUs.

Most of the unknowns are caused by people restarting, you wont get kicked off if you dont get caught. Most people banned
have more than 2 accounts and its very apparent
Tuatara September 8th, 2003, 06:52 PM

Alliances are good, you have fewer enemies to worry about in the early stages.
As for starbases, I think having one high level base that can't be sieged, and leave all the others at zero. Then create a
mobile defense fleet. That way an attacker can't see how much firepower you have, and will hopefully underestimate when
launching an attack. It also means you can pound the shit out of any siege.
If someone takes your planet you can always take it back, usually for less cost, especially if it had a big population.

I fear I didn't explain myself very well. The problem wasn't about breaking the alliance. It's just that when 2 players are better
than the others (for example I destroyed totally 3 galaxies before being quasi destroyed by a big alliance, as I prefer riding
alone), then they take all the xp. One of the guys of the alliance that attacked me told me that it wasn't such a good idea to
make too strong alliances. He was less developped than his friends, and got no opportunity to get xp. The only attack he did
against me was unsuccessful (strong fleet and good starbase on my planet), then the 2 strongest players of the alliance
managed to destroy all my planets of my natal star system (about 7) without further help, they got all the xp, and other
players are boring, waiting like a dog for master to feed 'em. Not really fun.
What would be fun is a dedicated server for the forum only, a melee between us on a reduced map. I wonder if it's possible to
get the source code. I guess not, but maybe the beta 1...
zeocrash September 9th, 2003, 05:55 PM

since the new game is going to start in 7 days i was wondering if you could all sell your PPs and send me the cash, just so i
can have the satisfaction of kicking kensuki's ass with a giant fleet of battleships. he's been attacking my planets with an
enourmous fleet, and i want the satisfaction of kicing kis ass just once.
the username to send your donations to is zeocrash.
buy today and we'll throw in this free radio alarm clock :p

Zeo, I've just sent you $30,000. Enjoy!

thankyou (x50)
you have no idea how greatful i am, kensuki will be suprised when my fleet of battleships turns up and anihilates the fleet he
has currently seiging every planet in alpha al bali.
i wont forget this man, if you need any help in the next round, just ask.
Arthis September 10th, 2003, 02:56 PM

I gave you all I had zeo, about 7300. Not much, but 14 more battleships...
IPN September 10th, 2003, 05:08 PM

I also gave you all, $23626, be happy :D and kick his ass badly.

wheee i'm rich. and have a huge fleet, bwahaha, time to pay kensuki
zaibatsu September 11th, 2003, 09:51 PM

Just sent you $4800 because I'm bored with Astrowars. Not much, but I'm not doing anything with.

3 hours and counting and the new 'season' of astrowars begins:)
I can already taste the sweet victory of conquereing new worlds:) mmmmmm
Course, now that Ive said that, Im likely to get stuck in a galaxy with wolverine (the winner if you didnt already know) or
someone equally vicious.... lol
angelo September 17th, 2003, 11:32 AM

But didn't wolverine have a lot of help from all the other people in his alliance?
I thought that was the only way he could have had such a large fleet.
I also can't wait till beta 3 I ended up killing off the person that sieged all my planets.
thanks again for the help
BrAiNFeVeR September 17th, 2003, 04:18 PM

I'm at Tania Borealis (4/2) in this new match.
I know I said I'd wait to sign up, but I was just too curious :p
If any new players want to sign up, please be so kind to use this url :)
http://www.astrowars.com/register/?r=14610
Give a shout if you're near me :)
vulture September 17th, 2003, 04:24 PM

Vulture here at 6/-6 Korneforos 7
What kinda name is that? :confused:
BTW, don't use brainfevers URL! It will steal your PPs and transfer them to him! :eek:
Rather use this one: http://www.astrowars.com/register/?r=14772

I'm at Zubra (-11, -8) so not tooooo far from everyone else for a change
IPN September 17th, 2003, 05:00 PM

I'm at Merach (5/16)
Btw.
You ALL should use this url to register..
http://www.astrowars.com/register/

Hercules (16/7)
The location of my beloved home world:D
kingspaz September 17th, 2003, 07:53 PM

i wasn't going to restart until a week or so but i was really bored so i did. i'm at botein (19/-22)
ALENGOSVIG1 September 17th, 2003, 09:07 PM

Im at Phekha 20/11
firebreether September 17th, 2003, 11:59 PM

firebreether, at Alnihan (-19,20) Its funny that only a few hours after the game started, we're already pretty far from the
origin.
zeocrash September 18th, 2003, 04:26 AM

(-5,-8) Marfik (Oph)
all our planets seem very close, how about an allience
Arkangel September 18th, 2003, 07:06 AM

I have a couple of logins if anyone's interested. I'm trying to spend less time on the net, and Astrowars is just too addictive.
Let me know if you want 'em

Is anyone having problems with astrowars? I cannt get it to let me log in:(
Also, Arkangel, if I cannt get the damned thing to work, I might be interested in an account.
Arkangel September 18th, 2003, 03:28 PM

Well, for what it's worth:
Arkangelic password shitfor
and
batterychico password arsepiece
Whoever gets 'em first can have 'em. I won't be logging on again. And don't be greedy, just one each.

how about we use the accounts as communal accounts for the roguesci allience, we all make donations to the account and
when we're in trouble, we borrow some cash from the account to build a fleet

I dont think that matters too much... it appears that the server HDD has crashed :(

see, i always said computers suck donkey sphyncter ;)

Looks like someone needs to replace some }{ with ][ to make a certain sig line useable. ;)

Ehh, I thought I caught all of them earlier... Thats what I get for being in a hurry:rolleyes:
Ok NBK, everything should be normal now... I think/ hope, lol:)
Wild Catmage September 21st, 2003, 06:16 AM

I just started at around 5.00 pm on the 20th. I'm Wild Cat M and I'm at Hyadun I
(-25, -29).
I'm allied with someguy called Murdoc in my system, but if the other two guys don't wanna ally, feel free to slaughter them
etc. (unless I can get there first :p )
Mortis Lupus September 22nd, 2003, 01:31 PM

iv started at Al Kaff al Jidhmah (17/-4)
Sparky September 24th, 2003, 06:59 PM

I finally joined. I'm at Ras Hammel (-3/-39).
IDTB September 30th, 2003, 08:35 AM

Nice passwords, Arkangel. :P
Sparky, I'm at Alphard (-40/4). Practically on top of eachother! We should for sure form a small alliance of our own being of so
near.
-----
Advice:
It's much wiser to use your production points on Battle Ships than for Cruisers or Destroyers. Cost to Attack/Defence ratio is
much more efficient. ;)
Sparky September 30th, 2003, 11:27 PM

Alliance? Sure, though I'm under the understanding that forum members already have a general alliance.
Edit: wait a minute, I just realized that we aren't actually all that close together. I think you inverted my location by accident?
IDTB September 30th, 2003, 11:45 PM

Of course. We can have our own little chapter of the alliance. The alliance is too big and too far apart to all be one large
group. It must have an infrastructure with multiple levels.
Wild Catmage October 2nd, 2003, 04:08 PM

Sounds good to me. What do you think is better - A group of battleships, or their equivalent in destroyers (assuming that
science is matched evenly, and the destroyers are attacking the battleships)?
IDTB October 2nd, 2003, 05:30 PM

The fleet of Destroyers could loose numourous Destoyers while the Battle Ships would have enough defense in one unit to
sustain the damage and continue attacking.
I_am_the_Black_one October 6th, 2003, 09:17 AM

G'day all well im back and i just started a new account anyone interested in loaning me some pp's till im on my feet? My acc
name is ak_47 and I am at Alpha Shelyak
(3) (-48). Anyone in the area? Its a fairly low lvl system.
ALENGOSVIG1 October 18th, 2003, 05:24 PM

Just thought i'd let you all know my new coords are Alpha Hassaleh 45/24. I initially got taken out within a week and had to
restart now but im now fighting for control of my new galaxy or solar system or whatever the hell its called.
So im gaining ground. Woohoo im Rank #888 lol.
chemwarrior October 18th, 2003, 06:50 PM

:p Im 236, and once I take back some of my planets, Ill be back to under 150:p
But speaking of that... anyone care to make some donations?....
Sparky October 21st, 2003, 11:26 PM

I've been trying to fend this German guy scones off for a while now, but he is persistent. I wonder if anyone is close by that
could help. I am located in the irritatingly crowded Ras Hammel (-3/-39). Just to give you an idea of what is going on, his last
fleet sent was:
30 Transports
845 Destroyer
1 Cruiser
26 Battleship
I killed 15%, and he conquered my original planet. He as already occupied two or three of my former planets and I think he is
going for all of them (3 left). That being said I have sent an 'escape pod' of two colony ships out to a planet where I hope to
set up again...
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Sparky November 16th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Wow, this thread is pretty slow these days.
Anyways my problems with scones is long over now (turned out it wasn't so bad) and things are looking up :cool: .
The main reason for my post however is this message I recieved from Blackfalcon:
"hi
i've a good news for you
i think we are in the best alliance of this part of the galaxy
and we propose to you a system of "protection"
this is easy to accept
you pay some astro$ and we protect your planet
but if you've not any astro to send to our alliance you can have some problem included extermination of your pop , ....
icon_twisted.gif
greetz
gangster alliance"
Me and my friend intend to teach this prick a lesson (Hope it's not anyone from the forum ;). I don't suppose it is, but if so
speak up and I will reconsider.). We are currently developing a sneaky and exciting plan.
If anyone else is interested in getting in on this we want your help, especially if the 'gangster alliance' (:rolleyes:) has tried to
extort money from you too. To let you know the general vicinity which I am looking for people from, Blackfalcon has planets at
Sulafat (-1/-32), which is I suppose where we will be attacking eventually. If interested either post here or send TheRealSparky
a message. Please be prompt with any replies.

i would help you, out my allience is just out of range. give us a week and our biology will be good enough to come help you,
for the moment you're just going to have to hang in there. do you know anything about the size of this guy's fleet. do you
think a few hundred battleships will be enough to beat him.

And the plot thickens...
No war has started yet so don't worry about us hanging in there. We do not know anything about this guy's fleet. But from
looking at his planets he personally is not that big and has player level 18. I don't know how big his alliance is but I intend to
try and find out.
To let you know what's going on I will unfurl our plan here. I considered sending this through astrowars message system but
maybe other people here will read it and think it's funny. Plus I am still hoping for more members to join us in teaching this
'gangster' a lesson.
LUPO (the friend I wrote of) has told me his second version of the plan (the first had a bug ;)):
Hi Sparky,
the o nly thing to do is to ma k e e m b elieve that I#m the one who s e xtortin g you; a nd you re no t willing to pay twice for the
same.
So it s o n them to make a decision, wether to attack me or to let you go.
For a better understanding with your new friends it maybe helpful to give them some faked hints concerning the strength of
my fleet and where it is statioed.
We can do even better:
For example I could siege Ascella#3 to convince them about your dependent relationship to me. Tell them this is the
consequence of not paying your weekly rate to me.
Then you may offer them to:
1. free your planet and destroy my sieging fleet (give e m d etails about it)
2. use this certain planet as a jumping point (attacking times will be strongly reduced)
3. atta ck me at a nother p lanet of mine (this is th e only thin g that s true cause if the y agre e to your pla n, you really have to
siege my planet with the lowest ID)
Further details will be mailed to you soon but first launch your offer to the frogeaters.
Till soon
Peter
The idea of course is to fool the gangster alliance (frogeaters) into attacking what they think is an easy target, then that fleet
which they attack with will get wasted, making them easier pray. I sent this to LUPO:
OK, according to your latest plan I sent this to blackfalcon:

Sorry for the long response time but your message has caused some (hopefully good) confusion in my game. I have been
thinking about this:
You see, for a while now I have been already paying someone for your kind of protection. After almost dying in my early days
I am fairly happy to pay something for protection. Recently however LUPO has put up his rates and let's just say he has been
less than helpfull :evil: . His rates are up to 4000 astro $ a week which is a lot to me right now, especially considering he
doesn't do much. So, I have a proposition for you and your group. I pay you less than 4000/week (say 2000 for now). For this
you protect me from LUPO and everyone else. I can expect LUPO will attack me after I stop paying him. If you fend him off
you will get me as your customer and get many weeks of pay from me and others who leave LUPO as their protector.
As far as I know LUPO is by himself and he has customers such as me - relatively weak. He is a much bigger player than me,
but I gather a few players such as yourselves would have no problems with him.
I think this plan works out for everyone. You can cripple your competitor and make money at the same time. Once people
don't trust that LUPO can protect them they will come to you, bringing you a few customers and more importantly securing the
market so your competitor doesn't get bigger. You get experience and money, I get actual protection and save money. What's
more is that LUPO does not know that you sent me this message. I can hopefully try to get some 'intelligence' from him to
help us. Say for example I say I will be under attack soon, can he send a fleet from somewhere. This will tell us where his
fleet is hiding :twisted:.
Ok, that was a long winded message but you get the idea. What do you say?
Upon his response I will try to find out which members belong to their group. I hope the plan works but if it doesn't than really
we have only lost the element of surprise, yes?
I also posted on roguesci about this and zeocrash has offered his alliance's help. In a week his biology will be large enough to
reach where we need it to. I will forward zeocrash this message.
firebreether November 18th, 2003, 02:52 AM

Well what do you know, you've been close to me all along and I never even noticed. Ill start pumping money into a fleet to try
to help you out when you need it. you can post here or PM me - firebreether. I only have a really small fleet now - about 3000
CV maximum, but in a few days it might be able to do something. I cant see your home system, i need one higher bio to do
that, but i can see you in Ascella.

at the moment i can see Alpha Ruchbah, which is quite close to you i belive, i have my fleet moving in on Alpha Ruchbah 12, it
arrives tommorow morning. my biology level will have increased in 9 hours. so i should be all set to help you by tomorrow

OK the plan is working nicely. We only have 7 days left until the game ends so I think we should hurry. Alpha Ruchbah is close
to Ras Hammel (my home planet and possible first attack place). blackfalcon is farther away though. He may very well have
other members of his ganster alliance close to you though which you can attack. LUPO sent me this:
Hi Sparky,
respect for your mail. You couldn't have done better.
I sent:
Estimated Arrival Destination Transport ColonyShip Destroyer Cruiser Battleship
19:00:38 - Nov 18 Ras Hammel 6 0 0 0 1 0
to convince them a little bit.
Tell them that I sent about 50 Bs and 10 Cruisers.

Then ask them to free you.
Tell me immedeately what fleet is coming from blackfalcon.
so long
Peter
p.s.: the game lasts just about 7 days any more
I sent this mail to LUPO:
So I see McGonna has got 500 points. Oh well I say we forge on. I suppose we will have to act fairly fast since we only have 7
days.
Sorry I didn't get your message in time and some ships were still in orbit around Ras Hammel 6, so your transports got killed.
But the cruiser will get through.
Blackfalcon sent me this :) :

ok, (i haven't all understand icon_biggrin.gif ) but i think i'm ok
i say that to my friend
yesterday i have lost all my fleet (130 battleship) in a fucking attack

becaus my ally laogoon was under attack
but in a few day i can attack some player

now i tell my friend on the forum to your proposition
i'm not ready for war yet, but some friend are ready
@+++
black
ps: have you just one planet ? where is LUPO (i've just see sadalmelik)
reps: you're candian, so do you speak french ? more easy because me and my ally are fr
I think it is too soon for you to be 'attacking', don't you? Instead I fabricated a different story.
No sorry, I don't speak French very well. Congrats, you are better at English than I am at French. Sorry to hear about your fleet
and laogoon.
Who else is part of your alliance, if you don't mind me asking? I would like to know who I am dealing with, especially so we
don't have any conflicts.
Speaking of conflicts LUPO has parked his fleet in my orbit on Ras Hammal 6. He says he is using it as a jump off point for a
few days :evil:. You see the shit I have to put up with from him. He has 50 bs and 10 cruisers parked there blocking my
productivity :x . Maybe some of your ready friends could start off by getting rid of this :twisted: ?.
The game will end in 7 days, but still I would like to teach LUPO a lesson to get back at him and the frogeaters can show him
who's boss 8) .
LUPO is at Ascella and Sadasuud too.
BTW firebreether is also helping us with this.
Come to think of it, it's rather suspiciously good news that blackfalcon just lost his fleet, but oh well.
EDIT:
OK Alen, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe we will have more time then.
ALENGOSVIG1 November 18th, 2003, 07:22 PM

Just becuase someone has 500 points doesnt mean they'll be able to keep it for 7 days.

Ok, this is kind of dragging on but here's the latest news. The question nagging at me is what good will it accomplish to trick
him into attacking?:
blackfalcon responds with:
i'm ready to kick his ass icon_biggrin.gif
now i have 61 battleship

pray for me icon_biggrin.gif
my ally are
redfox_5 laogoon nanki pymous faradn lopez.tuparles and ovatsug (but he attack redfox so ..... icon_biggrin.gif )
ok my fleet is going to your planet or maybe i send my fleet this night ....
i will see, but i will die in a few hour
and another message 4 minutes after this:
woo
i have seen your planet but it isn't red

so no fleet where is he now ?
where is his home planet ?

to attack his planet with a nice message to stop all his activities icon_twisted.gif
I am waiting for an answer as to which planet LUPO wants to get attacked.
EDIT:
ALEN, I sent you a measly sum of $1922. It's all I've got right now, sorry. Hopefully I can send more later.
Recent Developements: Ras Hammel 5 (my planet) is being attacked by scones by 189 Bs and some other ships. It will be
sacreficed (sp?), at least for now.
I have sent a message to try and get blackfalcon to attack LUPO's Saldalmeik 5.

It appears i just got attacked with over 200 battleships, and around 500 destroyers. My entire fleet and starbase is wiped.
PLEASE send PhalenxxX (me) some AD if you can afford it.
I'd be ever grateful. :)
firebreether November 19th, 2003, 08:22 PM

Sparky- the only planets I can see of blackfalcons are the ones at Al Rukbah al Dajajah. So if you folks attack his home
system, I will only be able to pick up the slack by attacking him there. But if we all go at the same time, then we should all be
victorious. I doubt that it would do much good, however if he attacks your planet while its being seiged weakly, that would be
the absolute best time for a massive multiperson invasion since his fleet would be away. Yes you'd lose you planet to him, but
you'd gain several of his.
EDIT: If we plan it right, and act reasonably quickly, we could probably knock several of their alliances players out of the game
by the time the round ends. We have enough force to take all of blackfalcons planets I think, as long as his fleets are away,
and once he logs in and all his planets are seiged, he restarts. Then we move on one by one to the other players in his
alliance, just to punish them for allying with him.
BrAiNFeVeR November 20th, 2003, 08:55 AM

I just got attacked by the Alpha Alliance (beowulf to be precise) he sent 235 battleships worth of fleet
Monetary support would be very welcome right now, and will be repayed (if I survive) I have 120 BS to oppose him, but I need
to weaken his fleet first ... and for that I need money.
transfer money to "brainfever"
much thanks.

Thanks to everyone generous donations i managed to build enough fleet to take back my planets. :-)
Thanks!

Ok, we have started our attack on 'the gangsters'.
Primary targets are

Mizar (UMa) #12, then #11, #10. Well, anything belonging to their alliance really.
Edit: Um ya, about that ;) I guess we were a bit too slow on the draw ;) .
firebreether November 25th, 2003, 02:41 AM

Well, the round is over. Sad to see it go, but I know next round will be just as fun. I am now starting to save up money for a
good cause. If anyone wants to be a good cause, by the time the round restarts I will have 200,000 pp's worth of money. Or if
you want it in 10 days instead of at the end, 100,000, etc. Just PM me or something if you want it.
ALENGOSVIG1 November 25th, 2003, 02:49 AM

I'll have it!
:D
Mumble November 25th, 2003, 11:07 PM

You must have amassed quite a collection of planets to be pulling in 400 some points an hour. At the moment, I'm only
getting 175. I did start this one halfway thorugh though, after mine was shut down(another member of the household had an
account too). Besides, my other one was being attacked without mercy. I was also in the mood for some ass kicking of my
own.

Please excuse the moot point.
If anyone else is giving away money or has nothing to do I could use some help smashing blackfalcon.
angelo November 29th, 2003, 12:23 AM

I seem to be in a bit of a fix, I just got one of my sieging fleets of about 150 battleships wiped out, and I killed 0% of their
fleet, which means it must be a big ass fleet.
I could do with some dosh if anyone can help. My name is angelo on astrowars too,
thanks in advance
IDTB November 29th, 2003, 01:58 PM

I'm managing 432points per hour and 264 Battle Ships(total) at (x:-40 y:4) and (x:-45 y:3) with a Biology of 21. Does
anyone need help in my general area? I also have a Clestial Prism 1 Artifact that I really don't need anymore. I'm unsure if/
how to trade that though.
My AstroWars name: idme
firebreether November 30th, 2003, 02:14 PM

I'm giving out 10,000 at a time to anyone who wants it. I've transferred money to sparky and angelo. The rest of my money
will go into colonizing like 10 planets at the fringe to test it out :)
ALEN: What is your astrowars name? Doing a player search for alengosvig1 comes up empty :(

Im PhalenxxX.
I sure could use any extra cash. I'm about to loose my first planet but im taking back some of the ones i lost earlier.
angelo December 2nd, 2003, 05:40 AM

thanks for everyones help.
I fended the guy off by upgrading a starbase after he launched, so there really wasn't anything he could do.
Cyclonite December 18th, 2005, 02:04 PM

Astrowars will be starting a new round shortly anyone interested should form an alliance in the game

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > poor chickens
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View Full Version : poor chickens
bonnsgeo September 10th, 2003, 10:44 AM

look what some americans farmers are doing to chickens.
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/prefs.asp?chgpref=1&video=kfc_cruelty_usa
...no comment....

Frankly, I've lost all faith in PETA and other animal rights associations.
They are so extreme and narrow minded. For example, there are numerous cases in Europe (I bet in the US too) where
scientists were attacked which were doing humane cancer research on apes, mice, rabbits etc. These scientists were labeled as
"murders", their cars have been destroyed, their homes have been sieged by these nutcases, etc etc.
Most of these people are just lazy, dumbass losers who are either too stupid or lazy to work and so instead they go on a
rampage. Then they get public support because it's a just cause..:mad:
Gimme a break.
You can't kill a few rabbits, but you can terrorize people and halt scientific research that might save millions of people?
EDIT: HILARIOUS movie in your sig :D
A-BOMB September 10th, 2003, 12:00 PM

I bet they all just ate at KFC, and who the hell cares how they killed the chickens as long as they'er cooked when it gets onto
my plate.

wasn't there a huge animal rights debate in here about 6 months ago. i think we all decided back then that very few people
gave a crap, not meaning to offend anyone who believes that kinda stuff

I support WSPA, witha $25 a month donation. They're not anti-vivisectionists, they don't bomb scientists cars. What they do is
rescue animals from circuses (eg chimps, bears, dolphins), they go after cruel practices like bear-bile farms in China, and dog
fighting. They provide veterinary aid in places like Iraq and Bosnia to help the locals look after their donkeys etc. they support
wildlife rescue centres worldwide
Here's a link for those who are interested :World Society for the Protection of Animals (http://www.wspa-international.org/)

I don't usually agree with animal rights groups, and this one is no exception. In the hillarious huge pig bit (how can you not
laugh at it? I'm positive I've seen people like this round here) they state "The pig is moved onto its back and its throat is cut
bringing a painful end to the tragic and cruel life it has been forced to endure" I don't believe cutting it's throat would be too
painful, not more than methods used to kill farmed animals at the moment.
Also, I don't agree with problems with intensively farmed chickens etc, they're just animals. Also this: "Freedom from fear and
distress: by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering" FOR A FUCKING CHICKEN! Goddamn, these
people must have so much time on their hands to concern themselves with things like this. Yes, I support a choice when it
affects the quality of the meat, but the choice must remain, because not everyone can afford to pay for the added costs of
more space etc. Also, it promotes the idea that animals are in some way as important as humans, or even on a comparable
level, which I don't believe is true.
I also have no problem with any bloodsport, so do not support it's view on bullfighting.
Having said this though, everyone has an opinion, and it's good when people are like you, and only mention it at an
appropriate time, rather than trying to convince people all the time.

I'm glad you appreciate that I'm not an animal rights evangelist. And I'm sure that even wspa stick their noses in where they
shouldn't, sometimes. But I believe that some farming practises are unneccesarily cruel, such as battery hens. Ever had free-
range eggs? I'm fortunate enough to have the space in my yard for 4 hens, they run freely round my property, and give me 4
big tasty eggs every day. And guess what - even taking in the cost of feed, the eggs only cost 2/3 what battery farmed eggs
retail for. And then there's the entertainment value of chickens - they are so funny! I had no idea until I owned some.
Personally I put humans on an equal footing with other animals - we are an integral part of a huge biological engine. Still,
everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that.
I happily eat meat, I'm glad I'm at the top of the food chain, just so long as the animals I'm eating get their fair shot at a
reasonable life.

My family has connections with agriculture, so from an early age when visiting relatives I was able to eat free range eggs,
chicken, turkey, homemade cream, organic vegetables and other goodies. However, I can't understand how you can justify
eating another animal if we are indeed on an equal footing with them? You are putting your need to live higher than theirs,
therefore creating an inequality. Unless of course you feel you are merely filling a role in a food chain, but still you are
distorting the natural food chains, by selectively breeding animals when they would usually be suppressed by predators.
Organic food, if healthier, does bring into play important questions. Because the state feels the need to provide a "safety net"
of healthcare for people, would it give long-term advantages for them to subsidise organic food for poor people, giving them
better health in the long term and so reducing the amount of money spent on them for healthcare? But then, you have to
realise the underlying principle of economics, that resources are limited. Taking that into account, resources have to be used
at their most efficient, which would mean that battery farms are the way to go. There is more I could say on the subject, but
I'm sure it will just bore people.

I get a page not found error on that link, but I know pretty much what it's about.
I understand that those battery chickens might not have the best life, but they're food aren't they ? Taking it to that simplest
level, food doesn't have rights.
I love a nicely cooked chook, and the local 'charcoal chicken' and KFC get regular visits. While there is some slight sympathy
there for the chooks, that's not nearly as important as my dinner. :p I don't want to pay a higher price for chicken, just to give
the chooks a better life, when they're ust being bred for food anyway.
As to animal protection agencies, I support the protection of endangered species, I want diversity in my surroundings, and it's
a shame so many species are wiped out... still, chickens aren't exactly endangered.

Do chickens exist as wild animals in nature? If so, where? As far as I know, they've been domesticated livestock for millenia,
and would likely not exist now if not for their usefulness as food, since they'd otherwise be pests to be eradicated.
Any animal that's going to end up as a meal doesn't deserve "rights", since the only right I'd be concerned with (as a chicken)
would be the right to not be eaten.
Also, notice how it's only well-to-do whites that worry about "animal rights". How many poor people, or muds, do you see
protesting about animal rights and clear-cutting of forests? I can't remember ever seeing one on TV or in the papers. It's only
people with too much time on their hands who've got the luxury of worrying about some animals feelings. :rolleyes:

I don't see any contradiction in my position. Everything eats something. Farming animals for food can be done in such a way
that the animals live an easy, healthy life - better than their wild counterparts. At the end of the day the price of that easy life
is that you become food. It is inflicting needless cruelty or stress that I object to. You wouldn't do that to people (well, maybe
some of you would) so don't do it to animals - -thats what I'm referring to by 'equal footing', (perhaps respect might be a
better word).
Farming is a neccessary part of human civilisation, and we're not the only creatures that do it - ants are a common example,
farming the aphids on your roses!
Oh, NBK, there are wild chickens in Albany, just north of Auckland. Not native, but definitely wild!
Kid Orgo September 11th, 2003, 02:33 AM

Perhaps there are good animal rights organizations out there, but PETA can suck my ass until I bleed.
The reasons are too many to list, but I think mainly I just hate their better-than-you attitude.
People bitch and bitch about things being "natural", but nature is nothing to emulate. (There's a great utilitarian paper out
there, Jeremy Bentham, i think.) Tiger kills elk: Natural. Person kills elk: cruel? No way. Nature is murder and violence. It's the
same deal with this deep ecologist bullshit about equilibrium with Nature and being the only animal on the planet that can't
reach it. Every animal on the planet reproduces and expands with no regard for sustainability. If you don't kill enough deer,
they'll breed until they reach a point when disease and starvation bring the numbers down. It's all viruses out there. Trying to
put man on equal ground with nature is ridiculous.
The only reason one should refrain from cruelty to animals is that it makes you more likely to be cruel to people (a la Kant).
That's it. Don't hit your dog, it makes you a worse person for it. So unless the chicken-killers are becoming insensitive to the
pain of others, let the chicken-killing continue.
Organic Food: Me, I like organic food. Not because it's "natural" or some shit like that, it's just more wholesome and
nutritious. I like knowing what goes into my macaroni and cheese, I like good meat. Maybe it's more expensive, but it's much
tastier.
NBK: "weak animal rights" theory is what you're kind of treading on. If an animal is to die for food, it's just a matter of not
making it suffer. In essence, weak animal rights theory says that it's worse to make an animal suffer without strong
compelling cause than to just kill and eat it. My position on animal rights is outlined above. Moreso, poor people and "muds"
don't protest about animal rights because ecological conscience is a luxury. It pays for itself, really, in some sense, but only if
you're rich enough to make the initial investment and can afford to wait around for the financial benefits. You get to feel good
about yourself, having saved the poor aminals. You get a "green" washing machine and save water. Yay! You also save
money in the long run. Same goes for poor countries, USA, we can do green manufacturing and shake our fingers at poor
countries polluting like motherfuckers to get their economies off the ground. Note; I'm not saying this is wrong, or right, or
what. Honestly, i don't give a fuck about it. When i'm old and not a broke college kid, I'll buy green products and wrench my
arm patting myself on the back, if only to save money. Right now, I can't afford an ecological conscience.
jfk September 11th, 2003, 03:16 AM
yeah, im all for people who put their lives on the line stopping rainforrest destruction, because im sure thats going to matter
some time soon, since the rainforrests convert heaps of shit into oxygen for us. as for chickens, i dont really support either
side, aye...
you can live your entire life without knowing or caring about it.
john_smith September 11th, 2003, 05:46 AM

All the animals rights stuff has really gone too far in my humble opinion. Though, I hate torturing animals just for the hell of it
(most people doing it are assholes to other people too, the greatest cat torture expert I've ever known was also the second-
ranking bully in his school, and, acoording to latest information, has now become a traffic cop :rolleyes: ) and clearcutting of
forests (they're good for hunting, camping, etc. and I just plain like them anyway). And, as for ALF/ELF etc, anyone promoting
anarchy, lawlesness and terror in these times of emerging police state(s) has already some points for them in my book:D

Chickens raised with an easy life make better food. and better eggs. In terms of quality, they are somre criteria/conditions
that one should respect: e.g. I was in Greece, and for a national day or something they were killing some sheeps. Killing one
in front of the other is going to make them produce toxins (adrenalin, etc.) that make the meat less good. As goes for the
way you kill the animal. Not more in my mind. Hey, they just have to accept their position of predator, or go with cows!

i couldn't imagine a "chicken's post" would have too many answsers :)
L:rolleyes:L
a_bab September 12th, 2003, 08:40 AM

"the greatest cat torture expert I've ever known was also the second-ranking bully in his school, and, acoording to latest
information, has now become a traffic cop"
Well, IMHO the traffic cops are among the most stupid men. I know some guys who also found pleasure in torturing animals.
They are extremly stupid aswell (almost retarded). So, my conclusion is that only an idiot would torture an animal. Your
statement is confirming once again my guess.

I've tortured animals for fun, and I'm far from an idiot, so please avoid such gross stereotyping if you would, eh? :)
Though I concede the majority of animal killers are mentally defective in some way, since most serial killers and necrophiliacs
tortured/killed animals in their childhood years, though not defective as in lacking intelligence, just self-restraint on the
impulse to kill.
Wouldn't you rather have him killing feral cats than your daughters?
a_bab September 12th, 2003, 03:37 PM

Well NBK, you are an exception. Apparently my tendency is to clasify peple accordingly to my values, which is not good. Yes, I
would rather prefer to have my cat killed instead of my daughter, and criminals are (sometimes) inteligent.
But at least you apply to my conclusion regarding cops inteligence, don't you ?
(Most definately. :D NBK)
Ollie Snowie September 13th, 2003, 06:17 AM

Quote:
Tiger kills elk: Natural. Person kills elk: cruel? No way.
I agree with you. The only reason why people think it is cruel for them to kill wildlife (and chickens) while a tiger doing the
same thing isn't, is because peolpe are "intelligent" and predators aren't. I think a good whack on the head like some tiger
turning up that can talk, write, read, knock on your front door, etc. and still hunts elks would put an end to all this "animal
cruelity prevention" because, if the tiger has shown itself to be "intelligent" then it is being cruel by killing elks when it could go
back to eating grass :) ,and therefore should be killed, put in jail or whatever, and then we would be being cruel to it. Just
goes to show, if you are a species that has the notion of "cruelity" then some of you will automatically think that there is way
to much of this "cruelity" and go to extreme measures to stop it.
PS of course, if this intelligent tiger was more intelligent than the human, it might be quicker off the mark at performing the
death sentence :D
lil kiddy September 13th, 2003, 04:18 PM

I think cat killers are sick! but they are not allways mentaly defected or just dam shycos, this guy in my scince classes, he went
out every night to find cats, shoot them with bb guns, he 1ce cort one and naild its leggs to a pece of wood, then left it ther to
bleed to death. i think that is just rong, and unnecicary. And this guy was not thick, but on the lines of chickins, they are soon
to be killed so it dosnt realy matter. bettor conditions would lead to better food tho?
knowledgehungry September 13th, 2003, 04:49 PM

Do you know what I think is even worse than torturing cats like that? Torturing everyone who knows English by using such
hideously bad grammar and spelling, after reading your post I'd almost prefer to be the cat than see my language raped.
Personally I do believe that people who kill animals in a way to cause unnescessary pain for fun do have psychological issues.
But that's not because of "the poor kitty" it is merely because people who get pleasure from inflicting pain normally have
issues, and the step from animal to human has been crossed too many times. Once you get bored of torturing animals the
next logical step is people so thats why I am against unnescessary torture, blowing up stray cats or dogs on the other hand is
different, thats amusing and not really about inflicting pain so much as seeing explosives work.

lil kiddy
he 1ce cort one and naild its leggs to a pece of wood, then left it ther to bleed to death
So, he crucified a cat, eh? Would that make it a "leopard Messiah"? :D (Apologies to Metallica for the pun. Don't sue me!)
Once you get bored of torturing animals the next logical step is people so thats why I am against unnescessary torture,
blowing up stray cats or dogs on the other hand is different, thats amusing and not really about inflicting pain so much as
seeing explosives work.
What a wonderful job at self-justification. :rolleyes:
On the one hand you say that people who torture animals have "issues", yet than finish the sentence by saying that blowing
up strays is "amusing". You can blow up a tree stump and see explosives work. The use of a living thing as a target is about
killing it and the feeling of god-like power, otherwise you'd use something that wasn't alive as your target in the first place,
right?
Admit that you're an animal torturing/kill junkie freak like the rest of us and be happy about it. :) There's no shame
brother...free your mind from the shackles society has put on it, saying that cat killing is evil!
Also, use a paragraph break once in a while, OK? Thanks in advance.

Well I don't like to see the animal in pain so much as in pieces;) .I for one am quite fond of felines, I have one of my own
which prolly explains my aversion to cat cruelty, dogs on the other hand are annoying slobbery creatures, but i still dont
advocate unnescessary cruelty towards animals. Then again I'm not particularly offended by people who do, sadists are people
too:p.
Yeah. I'm sorry about my tendency to avoid starting new paragraphs, I look kinda dumb correcting someone else's grammar/
spelling then writing a huge run on paragraph.

I don't disagree with these stories of "cat torture" because I'm a hippy, or some middle-class conservationist that gets a warm
fuzzy feeling from thinking I've made a difference, but as a cat owner, if someone did something like that to one of my cats,
I'd rip them apart.
Thinking about it, if I came across someone in the street doing such a thing, I'd probably stop them anyway.
Nailing a cat to a board sounds pretty unlikely to me, unless the guy was extremely determined and didn't mind parting with a
significant amount of his skin.

Ironically, there was a documentary about cats on the NGC, explaining why cats are such succesful predators. It also discussed
the danger of the overpopulation of cats to the wildlife population in many areas of the world.
A british wildlife society asked cat owners to note down the prey their cat had catched....There were cats that killed as much as
7 rabbits, 30 birds and some other small animals in two weeks! :eek:
I'd like being a cat. :D

No work, no fuzz, getting feed, some hunting for fun, etc...

cats are so beautiful and (sometimes) so intelligents animals. Mine is able to open doors :) its really funny to see. He jumps
and turn the handle of the door and he come in the room :).
In all case: DONT TORTURE ANIMALS ! if u must kill one, kill it quickly.
Whether you choose to risk airing an opinion attacking someone is your choice, but making it in the form of a simple insult,
with no rationalisation shows a lack of descretion on your part. Feel free to post it again if that's definitely what you want to
say, but I've edited your post in case you didn't realise how it might be taken by others - Anthony
bye
tmp November 30th, 2003, 02:55 AM

I don't agree with sadistic torturing of any living thing. If the intention is to kill
then do it quickly. As far as chickens go, they're near the bottom of the food
chain. And they're tasty to boot ! Anyone who says that animal-rights activists
have too much time on the hands is absolutely right. Wildlife management in
the last century has saved some species from extinction but the bag limits on
deer in the United States has resulted in overpopulation in some areas causing
death by starvation, disease, and ever increasing collisions with motor vehicles.
arm November 30th, 2003, 11:26 AM

Before I start, I would like to state that I m no t an animal rights activist or a veg etarian. I know its long but please read and
comprehend what I have to say before 'Jumping to your guns'.
A scenario:
One day, Aliens, 'Beings fro m Outer Spa ce ' or wh atever you want to call them come to our earth . They all possess IQ s far
greater than any human and exhibit an even greater range of emotions than us. In fact, they are so far in advance of us that
we appear to them as say, mice would appear to us. They begin killing us in the most cruel and vile ways imaginable, deriving
great pleasure from doing so, not even able to conceive of the pain and torment that they are inflicting. To them we just
appear as mindless automaton and in fact, they are so far in advance that we may as well be.
It irritates me when I read people talk about how important and great humans are, that we are completely different to animal
kind. Remember, humans are just a natural extension - an evolvement of other creatures. We have simply evolved higher
intelligences and exhibit a greater set of emotions (survival instincts). Some cite our greatest achievements as art and music.
To our alien friends above, our best examples of art would probably appear to them as the drawings of chimps and our finest
musical compositions would probably sound to them just as the pings of a connecting modem sound to us. The reason we see
these things as great Is because they were created to stimulate human neural patterns.
I believe, (along with other scientists/philosophers) that the universe is a deterministic place, and humans are no exception to
this rule. The thing we cherish known as 'Free will' is just an illusion. Human minds are in effect just biological computer
programs, we take an input run it through an algorithm and output the result. Ex hypothesi, given the current laws of Physics,
Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, Cognative and Computer Sciences. we are no less automatons than the rest of animal kind.
I too have a cat, and, although I can not prove it, it is fairly obvious that he possess a good range of emotions and I know
when he becom es distressed. Thus these quality s a re not unique to humans. Any cat lo ver will tell you that each feline ha s a
character all of its own. So clearly personality is not limited to humans either.
My ultimate point I suppose is this, don t make assumptions that animals feel no pain or that it somehow doesn t matter,
because if it doesn t then it implies from what I ha ve s aid ab ove th at huma n suffering is just as irrelevan t. (Note - Im no t
saying animals are our equals). Eating meat is a fairly essential part of a humans diet and thus survival but a painful slow
death is not.
Deriving pleasure from a slow painful d eath most definitely not.
PS.
Kid Orgo states that:
Same goes for poor countries, USA, we can do green manufacturing and shake our fingers at poor countries polluting like
motherfuckers to get their economies off the ground.
The US is by far the largest environmental polluter in the world at this point in time. And if you want to have the best impact
on problem everyone knows that you examine the greatest cause first.
scarletmanuka November 30th, 2003, 10:33 PM

I think the important thing to remember with animals is respect. I myself have eaten countless animals and shot many feral
pests ie roos, rabbits feral cats and foxes, if it means protecting our livelyhood. But I have always ensured it is done in a
humane way. No one can deny that hunting is fun, but hunting for hunting's sake is a little out of touch with our role in the
food chain. I don't know of any other animals that kill for fun.
Unfortunately many people go the other way and are hell bent on stopping the 'slaughter' of animals. Our national icon the
kangaroo has grown to plague proportions since the arrival of white man to Australia, However, many city people are lacking
any degree of intelligence when it comes to furry animals, and want and end to the culling of kangaroos. Lets see what they
think about that a few years down the track when we have no farms left due to them being over run by roos.
crackedchemist December 5th, 2003, 12:37 AM

The PETA people are right. Dont eat animals or hurt them. Hurt the PETA people and eat the PETA people instead!! But on a
seriouse side if theres say a wolf thats hungry and you stumble across it in the woods what would it do? Yea thats right it would
attack you chew you up and eat you! Would it care whether or not you were in pain before it got a meal? I highly doubt it.
Blackhawk December 5th, 2003, 03:14 AM

But the thing is that humans rarely kill for food, at least small animals like cats. If you were intentionally putting an animal in
pain then I would say that is wrong (unless the little bastard deserved it, face it humans are inherintly violent as animals and
most people enjoy killing in one form or another, such as CS players, it is a throw back to our predatory instincts)
If we want to lower the roo count in AUS we need to make it legal to eat them (I don't think it is, in NSW anyway) and then
convince tourists it is a national delicacy, that or make them pet animals so genarations are sold to annoying little families
and then neutered and their wild instincts are breed out.
xyz December 5th, 2003, 05:49 AM

I have eaten kangaroo meat at a restaurant in Queensland so it is legal there...
Roo meat can also be bought around where I live (W.A.) but it is not very good quality and is usually used for pet food.
arm December 5th, 2003, 08:55 AM

I think we can get kangaroo here in the UK, I've never tried it though.
What does roo taste like anyway?
Anthony December 5th, 2003, 01:01 PM

Surely if the aliens were so intelligent, then they would understand the pain they caused us? Would their vast range of
emotions not include empathy?
I know for a fact that roo leather is used commercially.
BTW, I don't think that anyone is arguing that animals cannot feel pain or distress.
arm December 5th, 2003, 01:33 PM

I was attempting to create a hypothetical scenario where we were the animals, a sort of 'scaling up' excersize since a lot of
people perceive (other) animals as just automata. I then implied that if they are automata then, since human brains operate
by the same mechanics (just scaled up) then we would be to.
I was just trying to evoke some 'thinking outside the human box' really.
Would their vast range of emotions not include empathy?
Since emotions are just evolved survival instincts, its pretty rational to think that they may have a completely difference set of
emotions we could not comprehend. Besides, humans have empathy and yet we still inflict pain.
xyz December 5th, 2003, 08:29 PM

arm, I'm sorry but I can't really give you an accurate description of what roo tastes like, it was about 8 years ago and I can't
really remember the taste.
IIRC (which I probably don't) it tastes like beef but sort of... different...
One of the other Australian members may be able to give you a better description.
Flake2m December 6th, 2003, 02:07 PM

It tastes like chicken :D
Some farmers dont realise that to be a successful farmer you have to have respect for what you are farming, and the
environment around you.
Seeing pictures of those battery hens just goes to show that some people really dont care.
Australia produces some of the best wheat, the best lamb and the best beef. Why? Because the farers have respected their
produce. Australian farmers are now beginning to realise how much damage they have done to the environment in the past
and are now diverting resources to fix it.
While farming is a business, like any other business you can't make a profit if you workplace is shoddy. It just makes me
wonder how those farmers get away with making any money at all considering the condition their produce is in.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Anti or Pro-capitalist?
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View Full Version : Anti or Pro-capitalist?

Through the "poor chickens" thread I've come to realise there are some real divisions between the way people think on
RogueSci. I always previously assumed that people "sang from the same songsheet" on most topics - gun control, political
bias, animal rights etc, although that seems to be confounded now! So, I was wanting to know where the members of
RogueSci stood on capitalism.
I believe that capitalism is the only and best way to make things work. You work hard, you get money. You don't work, you
don't get anything. Directors of companies should only be accountable to their shareholders, and not the general public.
Businesses should only take into account profits when making decisions, not public costs. The market should therefore decide
whether they agree with a companies actions, and support companies accordingly. There should be no "safety net" for people.
Health care should be provided by private companies and that the rich should have tax cuts, rather than tax increases. I also
believe in the removal of subsidies such as CAP and import/export tariffs and therefore freemarket policies.
What about you lot then?

I'm fiercely pro, and am fiercely against communism, as Combat 84 said" when your on your knees with a gun to your head its
better to be dead than fucking red" capitilism gives competition and choice. Communism fights against human
nature(selfishness and lazyness) and there fore cannot work cuz no one wants it too .
Nihilist September 11th, 2003, 01:26 AM

I'm definitely pro-capitalism. Communism is a good idea on the surface, but of course then good 'ol human nature comes
along and straightens that out nicely =p. I believe that businesses should keep all of their earnings, and not be responsible to
the public except of course for things like pharmaceuticals where the company needs to make sure their product is safe, since
people can't do that on their own. I believe there should be limits though, I believe huge monopolies should be illegal, and
other such cheating of the marketplace.

Ooooo! Another nice juicy discussion!
Well, I'm somewhere in the middle on this one. I don't think pure capitalism works, with money as the only scorekeeper. What
use is being the richest guy on a dead planet?
Communism sounds good in theory, but in practise it falls down because of human nature, so thats no good.
I'm all in favour of free trade and competition etc, but I think the capitalist model needs to take into account such things as
social and enviromental costs.
There is too much money poured into social welfare (well, in NZ anyway) - lots of useless individuals living off the backs of
others. Those folks should be giving back, in community service.
So, I'm going to plunk for 'Green Capitalism' :) I suppose you could have guessed that already from my statements in the
chicken thread :D

Communism, even as an idea, is broken. Dictatorship of the "proletariat"? Communist Party (a new upper class) holding power
until "world communism" is achieved? These are simply not good ideas. Ironically, communism is just another way to hold
down the working men and women who would put in place.
I'm a civil libertarian, personally. Capitalism is good, but the minimum government necessary, in my view, needs to keep big
business from fucking the working man. America works, but it would work better without so many fucking bureaucrats.
To misquote that old adage, "Capitalism (the economic system of a democracy) is the worst form of economy out there,
except for every other form"

If you're really rich, you're a criminal. There is NO way to get really rich legally.
Before anyone asks, yes, Bill Gates is a criminal, he invented windows!
I'm pro tax increases for rich people. They tend to use their influence to steer politics, so why don't make em pay for their own
decisions? Not more than reasonable. Otherwise they not only get richer by exploiting other people, they also wast tax money
of people who could put it to much better use.

Tuatare:
I'm all in favour of free trade and competition etc, but I think the capitalist model needs to take into account such things as
social and enviromental costs
This is the beauty of using a market to motivate companies! If the environment is important to people, they won't buy from
companies who ruin it. Therefore, companies will adjust their activities to suit the moral stance of consumers.
Nihilist:
Yes, I agree, you must have some form of Competition Commission to make sure there is enough competition, while keeping
a balance between big and small businesses. You need big business to provide investment etc, and you also need Patents
and copyright, so they can recoup costs from R&D, which don't help competition.
Vulture:
They justify everyone paying a % of their income because "we're all people" - so I have to pay more? Why is that, am I more
of a person? Is a person that pays less less of a person? I saw a program on a couple who reinvested all their money in buy-
to-let properties, and were worth over 100million legally. Although if I could influence government to run how I like, I'd happily
pay more tax.
John Ashcroft September 11th, 2003, 11:07 AM

I'm a libertarian socialist, like Noam Chomsky.
Capitalism (the economic system of a democracy)
That's not the case. There's been plenty of democratic socialist states in the past, and some still exist. It's a popular
misconception, especially among libertarians in America, that capitalism is an element of democracy.
Kid Orgo September 11th, 2003, 01:15 PM

Well, I've been on the hardcore environmental/chemistry/math thing lately. Not much time for politics and gov't. You are
probably right, other democratic systems could work.
I've read some of Chomsky, he's got some really good poinrs.
Murray Bookchin is a pretty interesting read, too. A little bit of anarchist, a little bit of Marx. He wrote a great paper about
social ecology vs. "deep ecology". He's one vitrolic man. Which is all the better, because I can't stand deep ecology.

i'm very republican. i'm pro capitalist, pro american, anti comunist, anti liberal, anti religious (not very republican i know, but
what the hell). so i'm pretty much the opposite of your average "non conformism is cool" teenager. i put non conformist in
quotes because so many teenagers do it now days that it's no longer non conformist.
A43tg37 September 11th, 2003, 03:45 PM

I'm basically pro-free market (which can mean pro-capitalist, I guess, but I also wouldn't be averse to a system of market
socialism where most companies were worker-owned or cooperatives, but the free market still set prices, determined what
should be produced, and provided services like health care instead of the government providing them).
However, when I say pro-free market, I mean a TRULY free market system. What this essentially translates out to is free
enterprise, but with none of the current restrictions and unfair favoritism by the government of some economic groups over
others. It means few or no taxes (fund gov't services with user fees or contract insurance), no patents or copyrights, no
minimum wage (but no damn Taft-Hartley Act or right to work laws either, and the refusal of Federal and state governments to
get involved in policing or stopping strikes..with strong unions, we wouldn't really need a minimum wage), no gov't provided
welfare (but also, no corporate welfare..aka farm subsidies, industrial subsidies, overly complex tariffs, and wasteful defense
contracts), no eminent domain laws (if the government wants to build a highway on your land, they can pay you full value or
find somewhere else to build it...this would also prevent people like Warren Buffet, and corporations like Wal-Mart, from using
city gov'ts to seize people's land so they can build casinos, malls, and stores), no corporate limited liability, abolish the legal
fiction of corporate personhood, easy bankruptcy laws (for individuals and small proprietorships only; not for corporations) to
"prime the pump" by allowing small businesses to start-up without their owners worrying about having what they've worked for
all their lives sold to pay creditors if their business fails, an end to fractional reserve banking (which is the moral and financial
equivalent of check kiting, but it's legal since banks and the Federal Reserve do it) and a return to hard currency, and an
active and aggressive lawyer's bar (and NO tort limits for corporations) to sue the hell out of businesses who cheat, lie, steal,
harm, or defraud their customers and employees (with an agressive bar, we wouldn't need so many regulatory agencies..fear
of lawsuits would keep businesses frrm doing unethical and harmful things).
Zaibatsu, when a company is an oligopoly (like more than 3/4 of American big businesses), you often don't have a choice but
to buy from them, or from one of their (few) competitors who are probably doing the same thing to the environment. Plus,
many corporations "greenwash" their image through PR campaigns and lie through their greedy little teeth about what they do
to the environment. We don't necessarily need an EPA like we have now, but if we don't have one, it'd better be common
knowledge by every company that polluting will get them sued for quite a bit of money, and they wil have to pay restitution to
those whose property/water/land they polluted (not like today, where, for example, PG&E and some of their Arizona
subsidiaries have had no less than 14 lawsuits filed against them in Federal court for air pollution, water pollution, devaluing
people's property, and causing health and respiratory problems-all these suits were simply seeking damages and orders to
make the companies cease and desist polluting-or keep paying damages, and the government keeps tossing the suits out to
protect the power companies, who give lots of campaign contributions in return).
Oh, and big business is NOT needed to provide investment capital. Just because it's that way in most of America and Europe
today, doesn't mean that that's the only way it could work. Personal savings, bank loans, mutual banks, credit unions,
cooperatives, venture capitalists (both individual ones, and those where groups of fifty to a thousand people pool some
money and go looking for venture cap deals to finance), IPOs of stock, bonds (which can be issued by small businesses and
joint-stock companies as well as big corporations), government financing and loans (hey, I'm not in favor of it, but it IS a
method), money pooling (much like the Korean immigrants' system of ten families each pooling money for ten months, and a
different one of them gets it each month), HYIPs, and even high-profit illegal businesses like dope sales or prostitution (both
of which should be legalized) or fraud (which obviously shouldn't be), can serve to provide investment capital and "seed
money" for new businesses.

A43tg37:
Interesting points. But explain this to me - would there be any pharmaceutical companies? If so, why? There's little
motivation, as the high R&D costs would not be paid for the government, and it wouldn't even give them a large advantage
over competitors, because as soon as they release the new drug, people can simply make generic copies of it. This will make
companies more reluctant to invest in research into new cures, which will slow down the progress of science.
Also, how can unions contribute to a more free market? That to me is absurd, as all unions do is bully companies while not
taking into account the effect on other people. In my world, the government would have the ability to break up union
demonstrations by whatever means possible. No-one has a right to a job, if they don't like the job they've got then leave.
"easy bankruptcy laws"? Wouldn't that affect the banking corporations - something you cited as necessary for investment?
What about economies of scale? Business should work at their most efficient level, and for some businesses that is at a very
large scale of production. So you would be prepared to waste limited resources for the sake of having smaller companies?
John Ashcroft September 11th, 2003, 05:08 PM

Pure capitalism is economic chaos. It a system where many forms of organized crime are legal.
David 314 September 11th, 2003, 06:37 PM

Neo-conservatives are always talking about how much they like natural selection, but then they throw huge ammounts of
money at pharmaceutical companies. Nazis were NOT natural selectionists. Concentration camps dont grow out of the ground.
If you dont want a clogged gene pool, get rid of medication and let the weak die.

This is what I mean by 'green capitalism'
bsr.org (http://www.bsr.org/Meta/About/index.cfm)
I don't think market response is fast enough to keep companies in line.
Joe Public: " I'm not buying any more power from you because you dumped 10 tonnes of spent nuclear fuel in the harbour"
Power Co.: " Oh! Sorry Joe, we won't do that any more."
But the nuclear waste is still there ...
In NZ the biggest mistake in recent history was de-regulating the electricity market. The result? Power shortages through
winter, because the generating companies used up all the cheap hydropower first - so we were left with insufficient generating
capacity, with just coal and oil. Also big power cuts in Auckland because routine maintenance on cables wasn't done - no profit
in it see?
This is why I feel profit needs to be balanced against social responsiblity. Emphasis on 'balance'!
Unions are a neccessary balancing force in the workplace, the trouble comes when they get out of hand and greed takes over.
Otherwise we'd all still be working 80+ hours a week from the age of 10.
A43tg37 September 11th, 2003, 11:27 PM

Zaibatsu, as long as there's SOME profit to be made, there will be pharmaceutical companies...there may be less profit, but as
long as even a small profit margin exists, there will be those who fill the market's desire for such a product. And while it may
be true that not having patents would mean that almost as soon as a new drug was developed, there would be generics copies
of it; this could also be a GOOD thing, and one which would serve to spur MORE research and development. If companies knew
that their drug formulas could legally be easily copied when they came out, they would be forced by the competitive pressures
of the free market to develop new drugs a lot more quickly if they wanted to stay #1 in the market; this is the exact opposite
of what sometimes (most of the time, actually) happens in today's pharmaceutical markets. Companies like Pfizer and
GlaxoWellcome know that because their products have a guaranteed market hammerlock for a period varying from 3-20
years, they don't have to do too much R&D of new drugs to stay competitive.
Now, you may think that what I'm saying about forcing Big Pharma to be more competitive and develop new drugs sooner may
be work to achieve that objective, but it would do so at a cost of not letting drug companies make enough profits to fund R&D.
This might be a valid argument if it wasn't for the fact that drug companies spend twice as much (or more) on advertising and
promotion as they do on actual R&D, especially since the regulations on drug advertising were relaxed by the FDA in 1997;
furthermore, almost ALL drug R&D costs are tax deductible (name ANY other industry, besides ones that supply the
government directly, like defense contractors, that gets that kind of tax write-off on research and development expenses.
Finally, the advertising vs. R&D figure I reported is actually quite skewered in favor of the drug companies; between 75-80% of
"R&D" monies expended by pharmaceutical companies are actually spent to produce modified versions of the same drug,
produce a slightly chemically different drug (to have something else to patent and sell when the patent on the original drug
runs out), to try and produce similar drugs with similar effects that are chemically dissimilar enough to get around other
companies' patents, so as not to get sued for patent infringement (a complete waste of funds that wouldn't happen if drugs
weren't patented), or to test already developed drugs for new uses (like the anti-depressant bupropion for smoking cessation)
in search of greater profits. And before you decide that no matter what I say, a system with no patents would STILL discourage
R&D, ask yourself this: is our CURRENT system encouraging very much R&D (by that I mean true basic research on entirely
new drugs, not "R&D" of the varieties mentioned above)? We do have a few new drugs (mostly for heart conditons..however,
many of these are simply outgrowths of research done in the 80's), but we still use cancer drugs from the 70's and 80's (taxol
and its derivatives, and most other chemo drugs)...we still use AZT (developed in the 80's) for AIDS; some of the newest AIDS
drugs are modified protease inhibitors developed almost ten years ago. Most of our current anti-depressants (of the MAOI and
Tricyclic variety anyhow) were developed back in the 60's ; SSRIs in some form or another have been around since the
80's....how many TRULY new drugs does are current system encourage research and development of? Damn few.
A classic example of this is what happened with Prilosec and Nexium. For those of you who don't know what those two pills are
(and how could you not, what with them being on TV ads all the time), they are drugs that shut off some of the HCl gastric
acid pumps in the stomach; they're used for treating gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), severe heartburn, and some
forms of ulcers. What happened in regards to these two drugs was this: Prilosec (omeprazole) was developed in the mid-
1990's (it wasn't marketed until a bit later) by the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca. It worked well as an anti-reflux and
anti-heartburn drug, but didn't perform as well as the company's trials had shown as an anti-ulcer drug. On top of that, it
caused side effects like diarrhea and severe abdominal/stomach/intestinal cramps in many of those who took it. Now,
AstraZeneca had developed a newer and slightly chemically different drug (I think it was an optical isomer of omeprazole; I
could be wrong on that though), esomeprazole, that worked as well as Prilosec for heartburn and GERD, worked better as an
anti-ulcer drug, and while it did have some of the same side effects as Prilosec, far fewer of those who took it in clinical trials
experienced these side effects. This drug was developed in the late 1990's, circa 1999. However, since AstraZeneca had a
patent on Prilosec, and this drug accounted for the lion's share of anti-GERD drugs sold, they saw no need to market
esomeprazole (I don't think anyone else could have marketed esomeprazole under our current system either, even if they
had developed it independently....being so chemically similar to omeprazole, AstraZeneca could have said it was too similar to
the "prior art" patent-wise and sued for infringement)....UNTIL, that is, their patents were about to expire in 2002; this meant
that other companies could make generic Prilosec, and AstraZeneca would either have to cut its prices (and consequently its
profit margin) on Prilosec, or lose market share. In 2002, they began fully marketing esomeprazole as Nexium, and many
doctors won't even prescribe Prilosec anymore unless the patient's symptoms show no response to Nexium. What we have
here, then, is an excellent example of how the patent system's interference and overprotection in the free market brought
about a serious distortion by allowing AstraZeneca to sell Prilosec at more than its true market equilibrium price, and keeping
a superior drug off the market for at least four years.
Sources:
1. Lind T, Rydberg L, Kyleback A, Jonsson A, Andersson T, Hasselgren G, Holmberg J, Rohss K . Esomeprazole provides
improved acid control vs. omeprazole in patients with symptoms of gastro-oesophageal reflux disease. Aliment Pharmacol
Ther. 2000;14:861-867.
2. Kahrilas PJ, Falk GW, Johnson DA, et al. Esomeprazole improves healing and symptom resolution as compared with
omeprazole in reflux oesophagitis patients: a randomised controlled trial. Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2000;14:1249-1258.
3. Richter JE, Kahrilas PJ, Johnson J, et al. Efficacy and safety of esomeprazole compared with omeprazole in GERD patients
with erosive esophagitis: a randomized controlled trial. Am Journal of Gastroenterology. 2001;96(3):656-665.
4. The Big Fix: How the Pharmaceutical Industry Rips Off American Consumers
Katharine Greider
PublicAffairs Ltd.
2003
5. Reuters report on Families USA's 2002 study on drug R&D, promotion, and advertising costs
www.rxcansave.com/docs/Report%20attacks%20drug%20companies%20ad%20spendin g.pdf
Now, on to some of the other things you mentioned. Unions contribute to a freer market by negotiating with employers directly
for higher wages, instead of having the government set what wages should be (and really, which would YOU rather see: wages
determined by collective bargaining and discussions between unions, workers, and businesses, or the government setting a
minimum wage? Which one is truly more "free market"?) Granted, many unions today support the minimum wage laws,
although it's not because many of their members make minimum wage (how many union guys have you heard of that made
only five bucks an hour); rather, it's because the minimum wage provides a scale to bargain up from; i.e. "well, your lowest
paid workers are making $5.15 an hour, therefore, since we want $12.15 an hour; if his wages go up by a dollar, ours should
too". If unions were as strong as they are in Switzerland and Germany, they probably could set a wage floor on their own,
without government help. Whether current unions would do this is debatable, but I never really liked the AFL-CIO and their
"top-down, no direct democracy by members, let the government and the union bureaucracy decide everything, to hell with the
rank and file" mentality anyway, and I would hope that in a really free market, some directly democratic rank-and-file led
unions (like the UMW kind of still is) would realce or supplant the AFL-CIO. Also, I fail to see how asking for higher wages and
going on strikes is "bullying" anyone; it seems that with all the wage givebacks, contracts that accept more layoffs, and
workers being cheated out of their pensions recently, the companies are doing most of the bullying, not the unions. And I find
your policy of "break up union demonstrations by whatever means possible" completely reeks of Fascism, pure and simple. I
agree that no one has a right to a job, but demonstrations are a form of FREE SPEECH AND ASSEMBLY, which we DO have a
right to. Frankly, it's somewhat sad, and more than a little disturbing, that anyone, on this board of ALL places, would stand
for the suppression of free speech by "whatever means possible".
Easy bankruptcy laws would affect banks, yes, but I believe small businesses are important job creation engines, and I'd
rather give them the benefit of the doubt than some big government-backed, FDIC insured, usuring, fractional-reserve-
lending, fiat-money-advocating, lying SOB banker. Besides, some of the other changes I'd mentioned (namely abolishing
fractional reserve banking and putting us back on a hard money standard) would rock the banks' world far more than changing
the bankruptcy laws, and I didn't hear you mention anything about that. Oh, and I never said banks were necessary for
investment capital; I merely cited them as one possible source of it among many.
Finally, I never said anything about economics of scale. If a big business can survive and thrive in a truly fair and honest free
market...good for the big business; I have no qualms with it. However, I think that the current system gives them so many
unfair supports and advantages that it's no wonder they succeed and profit at a rate far greater than small businesses. I
simply want to take away those unfair advantages; and let a REAL free market decide the rest...if that is a "waste of
resources", then so be it.

I believe that businesses should be free to pay their workers whatever they want, charge however much they want for their
product, and do so with minimal interference from government.
I also think that workers should be free to form workers collectives (I hate the "U" word) for their own benefit, consumers can
pay whatever they're willing to pay for the product/services they want, and government doesn't try to act like everyones nanny
by "protecting" them with articially low prices/subsidies/tarriffs/etc.
If a person doesn't like what they're getting paid, get another job or, better yet, become independant of the wage slave
mentality and become a freelancer.
This is what I've done. :)
I'm now a freeleance graphic artist at $12.5/hour, cash only. Bling, bling! :D
Since I've just started, I've only got a couple clients, one being a newspaper, so I'm not totally free of my menial wage
job...yet...but I'm on my way. :)
It's scut work right now, doing business cards and calandars, but everyone starts out at the bottom, so I'm not worried about
it. Hell, it's easy work really, and I got paid $25 for knocking out two business cards in two hours as my very first job. That's
equal to five hours of dealing with the public at my current cashier job (after taxes), only minus the hassles/stress/boss/
taxes/etc.
With enough experience, and a good rep, an artist can get work anywhere, anytime, name his own price, and doesn't have to
worry about layoffs/the office/politics/being on time/ or other trival work-related crap. He can work on the beach in Tahiti, or a
motel room in Rio during carnival, only needing a laptop with PS7 and 'net access to get paid.
This is the goal of the laizzese fair (hope I'm spelling it right) economic model. Everyone sets the price of their service, and
everyone is free to choose amongst them, no matter how big or small the product or service may be, or where in the world it's
located.
If the product/service is superior, more people will choose that provider, making them even more money. There'd be no
monopolies unless the provider is so superior that no one else can even compete in quality, in which case why would anyone
else want to use them?
If china can provide cheaper programming skills than silicon valley, with the same quality, guess where the money is going?
This motivates the silicon geeks to either lower their prices, or increase their quality, in order to remain competitive. And if
liberian programmers (yeah, right) can do both then they'd have the de facto monopoly on programming.

This is the goal of the laizzese fair (hope I'm spelling it right) economic model.
I assume you mean "laissez faire", market with minimal interference?

At least I had all the letters! :D

Would I be right in assuming that we've got a couple of people here with business/economics qualifications?
Good to see NBK has cost-reduction mastered - no tax, no software licenses... :D
Psymage September 15th, 2003, 03:13 PM

Me myself I don't like capitalism because it's a systems where money is the most important thing. And money isn't the most
important thing, the most important thing is Working (Arbeid). Capitalism also won't care about it's envirement because
"nature is expensive". Also the working of a bank and the stock is not right, because making more money with money will
lower the value of working.
I also don't like communism (also i think it's better then capitalism) because you won't have much freedom in a communism
society, but i like the idea of communism because all people are equal.
the best system would be a system between them (25 old men at the top of society, but the have to live in poverty) or
anarchy (I know you all don't like anarchists but i think its the best because its pure human nature to try to survive and live in
freedom), but anarchy can not be used in this world because there to many people (if you had fewer people on the world it
would work but now it would just be a disaster if we all would live in anarchy (in 2 days the whole world would be destroyed))

People are not equal, and working is not the important thing - work is for chumps :)
25 men weilding ultimate power who live in poverty will still not understand the average person's life, just as 25 wealthy men
wouldn't. Because they're piss-poor, they're likely to regard luxuries (air conditioning, non-essential surgery, cable TV,
computers) as being pointless and would likely decide that for the "good" of the country, people shouldn't have them.
Also, the odds of your more unique interests being represented within the 25 aren't very good. I.e. none of them are likely to
understand why you should mess with pyro.
A lot of people seem to have an opinion about how to make society better, usually they're unsuccessful people (when was the
last time you heard a millionaire complaining about the unfair distribution of wealth?).
I say that society will never change and make your life magically better, YOU'VE got to make your life better within the system,
play the game, and quit bitching and play the hand you've been dealt.
Psymage September 16th, 2003, 03:22 PM

oke my previous post was only to explain my ideas of a "perfect" (wich is impossible) society.
But for most things i agree with Anthony.

I'm part way through a book called "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser. It's a description of the way the industry developed in
America and the effects it's had on every aspect of American life. I won't try and describe much of it here, but it's highly
pertinent to this thread (any of my UK pals would be welcome to borrow it when I'm done)
There's a saying "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" and it was often used in America and the west to
describe the way things happened in Stalin's Russia, Tito's Yugoslavia, Ceacescu's Romania, and all the other supposedly
communist or totalitarian states.
Trouble is, everyone sees fault everywhere but in themselves, and assume that the saying doean't apply in the land of the
free. No system is without fault, and the capitalist ethos is one which taken to it's logical conclusion, would have one person
more or less running the world, with all of us living on subsistence wages to ensure their personal fortune (NBK, that's probably
a job you'd like:p ) You certainly see some individuals and corporations who's desire for more money and more power has no
bounds.
The fact is, we live in an economic ecosystem. Just as in the rest of the natural world, incredibly complex relationships exist
between every member of it, the banks, the industrials, the workers and so on. None can exist without the other, and
interdependency helps fuel the development of species/businesses as they compete for survival. And that's exactly what many
of you are talking about here. People SHOULD be able to get on by working hard, working smart.
But imagine the sea, where millions of years of evolution has created a distinct hierachy from sharks to the krill. Suddenly,
mankind is on the scene, with his superior brain and fishing prowess. Things are fine until mechanisation appears and the
industrial revolution is brought to bear. Slowly we see advanced trawls, purse-seine nets, sonar, aerial spotting, computer
modelling, vacuum factory fishing ships and things are suddenly not fine anymore. Add that to the runoff from industry that's
beginning to choke the sea and you find the entire ecosystem under threat at one level or another. The fishing industry has
got more and more efficient, without effective checks, and now Cod, the fish that built America is an endangered species. Is
that progress?
In the same way, if you allow capitalism to run away without ANY form of control then you will have de facto totalitarianism in
your land. Already, three meatpacking companies control 80% of the ground beef sold in the US, and each would happily
swallow all the competition if given a chance. That hasn't happened yet, but would it be a good thing? Don't fool yourselves
that it's impossible.
Capitalism should be allowed to get on with it's job, BUT an independent, unbiased and honest government should lay down
the regulatory framework within which ethical business practices exist, and competition is maintained.

The powerless always complain about the abuse of power by those who do have it.
Monopolies can sometimes be a good thing. When Ma Bell owned all the phones, they always worked. Now, when even cable
companies can start up a baby bell, you know your in trouble, because these people can't even keep the cable up more than
99% of the time, which is not "Sigma Six" reliable like the old bell was.
Microsoft, as much as we hate it, is responsible for the popularization of the PC and the internet. If the only way people could
get on the net was by learning command line *nix, there'd only be geeks and acadamia on the net. 99% of our members
wouldn't even have a computer, and we wouldn't exist as a site.
Yes, I know, popularization of the net has brought the "bread and circus" masses to the 'net, but you take the bad along with
the good.
But, there's also a need for a perpetual underdog as well. Without Apple to nip at Bill's heels, would he still be as interested in
improving Windows as he otherwise would be? Likely not. He knows that if he starts slipping, Apple is willing (if not able) to
replace him.
If anything, there should be a mandated 80/20 division of market share. The company with the 80% share provides stability
and standardization for the industry. The 20% is composed of other companies that provide innovative ideas and motiviation
for the Big Boy to utilize them, otherwise risking being replaced by the better mousetrap. :)
To trust an "an independent, unbiased and honest government" to do that is absurd! Tell me of ONE government on the
entire planet that fits your criteria for being "an independent, unbiased and honest government". If there was such a thing,
then communism would have succedded, but it never will because there's no such thing as "an independent, unbiased and
honest government". How could there be, when government is ran by people, and all people are greedy and selfish, unless
you had a government ran by Mother Terresa (the whore!). :p

"Should" is the problem word NBK. "Should" allows all sorts of excesses.
The example you describe of the Telco's (the business I'm in) and the original state monopoly situation is interesting. Does
anyone really think the web and all the high speed data transfer systems would have been anywhere like as developed as
they are without the forced introduction of competition? There wouldn't be ANY of the main transoceanic capacity if it had been
left to the incumbent state carriers. Granted, lots of small telco's don't know their ass from their elbow, but we're still far better
off. The wholesale price for a call between the UK and US was $0.30 ten years ago, now it's less than a cent. MORE regulation
of the Telco industry is what's required
Capitalism isn't interested in competition, it is purely interested in self. Not the self as in you and me, but the self of the
company/owners. McDonalds doesn't want Wendy's to exist, or BK or TB, they want it all for themselves. Without a framework
of law, there is no length that they wouldn't go to in pursuit of it's goals. So SOME regulations do exist, but without ANY you
wouldn't have Apple nipping at MS's heels. The only difference between our opinion on this NBK, is the degree of regulation
required, and the objective of that regulation. My opinion is that more emphasis should be put on workers rights, respect for
the environment and anti monopolistic practices.
But I'm a pragmatist and I do live in the real world and before you suggest I'm bitching about my powerlessness, I suspect
I'm one of, if not the highest earner on the forum. I live the Capitalist dream, but I try to do so as a good human being.
(Edit: I'll leave this remark as it is (sounds a bit wank) but qualify it a bit. I work in an industry where the wages are obscene,
so much so that I feel guilty when I'm around a lot of the people I grew up with. True, I'm not a rockerfeller, but I am in the
highest tax bracket, and I think that entitles me to bitch a bit about capitalism without my reasoning being questioned on the
basis of cash or power)

"I suspect I'm one of, if not the highest earner on the forum"
Lend us a tenner mate ;)

Too busy paying off my debts;)
Sorry

Speaking of the rockefellers, one of th rockefellers is a democratic senator, and people claim the republicans are for the rich
:rolleyes: .

Funny you should mention debts.
Capitalism is fueled by debt created by consumers who buy more than they can really afford.
Debt is charged interest. Interest is money paid in addition to the original debt, meaning more work on the part of the
consumer to pay for it. More work means more productivity.
Advertising creates wants for objects that are not necessities (food/shelter).
If people only bought necessities and paid only cash, then capitalism would grind to a halt, because there'd be no interest to
fund capital investment and not enough productivity to create growth, since people would only work enough to pay for their
needs and not their wants.
For instance, one of my former landlords had a successful business that was making about $120,000/year. After paying for his
harleys (never buy one, they ALWAYS need repair), his porsche, trucks, ATV's, etc ad nauseum he was in debt for many
thousands each year, and getting more and more into debt as the years passed.
And, mind you, this is even after all the scamming and schemes, for free electricity for the business (saving at least $1,000/
month), paying a booster to steal expensive stuff for a fraction of their cost, check forgery, etc.
In the end, it all got him a couple years in prison, and literally EVERYTHING (even the birds) taken away by the police on
flatbed trailers and sold at auction for "victim" restitution. So all his toys are gone, he's in prison, he still has this debt to pay
once he's out, and now no business to pay for it. :D
I, on the other hand, had a POS car, lived in a 10x14 foot shed by the side of the business (nominally as "night watchman"
:p), and worked only a couple nights a week as a clerk at the local Stop&Rob to pay for my necessities (no rent).
After a year of doing this, as well as "consulting" jobs for various ne'er-do-wells, I had quite a few thousand dollars saved up
(all cash, in pipe safe, as per RTPB) and plenty of free time to work on my projects.
The landlord, on the other hand, was working pretty much every day, from 6 to 6 (sometimes later), and didn't have much
time at all to enjoy his toys.
Rather ironic, was how my landlord with the porsche would come to me, the guy living in the shed, to borrow money, because
he was either broke or couldn't get to it in time for a deal. :) Better than a bank I was...no questions, 24 hours, as much as
you needed, and all on the condition of 20% interest per day, with the businesses Snap-On tools being the collateral.
Besides which, having butt-loads of "toys" ties you down. You become a servant of your possessions, rather the way it should
be. You can't move when you want to, not without taking a substantial hit in your finances by losing everything you've paid into
your toys.
When the cops came and seized the business, I was packed and gone in a couple hours. And that's the way it's been each
time I've moved since then. Most of what I accumulate is expendable junk that I leave behind when I move, taking only my
computer and all my data. Things are replaceable, data (once lost) is never replaceable.
So, you may be at the top of the income scale, but do you have time to enjoy it?

I don't think today's rampant consumerism is necessary for captialism to work. Wind the clock back 30 years - no credit cards,
people paid cash usually, if you wanted to borrow money for a house you needed a 20 year savings record and essentially had
to prove that you didn't need the money at all. Yet the capitalist machinery kept grinding along. I will freely admit that easy
credit has accelerated the capitalist engine, but I don't think its a pre-requisite.
I have managed to stay clear of the 'buy now, pay forever' trap. Except for my house, of course, but even that is a reasonably
modest affair so I'm not mortgaged to the eyeballs. Thats a life-style choice. My other 'toys' (and there aren't many) are all
bought when I have the money in hand. I zero my credit card every month, taking advantage of the 30 day free credit
(suckers!). I still recall the look on the salesmans face when I bought a TV years ago, and wrote the guy a $1000 cheque :D

Checks + Credit Cards = Banks = Government control and monitoring of your finances.
Also, was the ecomony anywhere near what it is now, back in the days before "easy credit"? Nope. The US now accounts for
almost a third of the worlds total economic activity and finance. Back in the post-war days, we weren't even 10%.

I have a fairly lengthy document on the way the fed works, and the involvement of various agencies in controlling the
economy. It's alarming stuff, not sure of it's veracity, but I'd be interested to post it. Is there a way I can post it here for folks
to download, or anyone got a suggestion how to show you it?
BTW Credit=BAD!

NBK: I think you'd make an excellent teacher. :D
Survival is human nature. Everyone is trying to make a buck from everything else. Some people though are just better at it
then others.
From how I see it Capitalism is still accepted as a better method of government because it gives people choice (or atleast
makes them think they have choice) and people like choice.

Ark, how big is it? (kb or MB)
Arkangel September 21st, 2003, 05:01 AM

123KB
Try it here (http://www.boomspeed.com/arkangel/FinancialReality.doc)
I've uploaded it as a word document, see how you get on.
pyromaniac_guy October 2nd, 2003, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Arkangel
The wholesale price for a call between the UK and US was $0.30 ten years ago, now it's less than a cent.
this reduction in price might have more to do with the several orders of magnitude greater call carrying capacity of modern
long hual networks, compared to what was avalible a decade or so ago
:)
root October 13th, 2003, 11:51 PM

I'm pro capitalist, however do believe governements should have some intervention in the market place. so i'm not entirely
free market, although i have nothing against a totally free market (but let's face it, that will never happen, because if the
governement doesnt get involved, other people will use force to get what they want.) but what do i know i'm canadian.
I have to disagree with NBK2000 though, well not so much disagree but respond to his ending question/comment. (hope this
doesnt get me banned as its my first post :P)
I know of many entrepreneurs who get to enjoy freedom of time right now and living very well at a very young age. although
the ones that do work 6 days a week may not have lots of free time to enjoy now (and pinch every penny), but they will have
free time when they are older and retire much younger than i probably ever could. it all depends on the people / circumstances
we're dealt, some people just get plain fucking lucky.
grandyOse October 14th, 2003, 02:49 PM

Pure capitalism all the way. That means NO interference from government, PRO or CON! No subsidies, no bailouts, no punitive
regulation. Let the buisiness fly or fall with the will of their customer base and fair competetion. With the ONE exception of
import duties and tarriffs. Which should be the federal government's ONLY source of revenue.
Slightly off-topic; It is well proven that any activity that is taxed, is an activity which is discouraged; why should the government
tax (discourage) income and profit? Tax has become a method of control rather than a source of revenue. Every time there
has been a substantial tax cut, government revenue has increased! If it were truely for revenue, then they would keep cutting
taxes until revenue started to decrease. That would be the optimum tax rate (although still unconstitutional).
Being poor, it is tempting to say, "tax the rich". But in reality that is just class warfare, not economic sense. I've never been
hired by a poor man.
Efraim_barkbit October 14th, 2003, 06:17 PM

Ill give you my opinions on this subject an other time, when I have the time to write and remember to post it, but I had to
say some words about grandyOse's post.
With the ONE exception of import duties and tarriffs. Which should be the federal government's ONLY source of revenue.
I dont know, but I dont think that would be enough to pay the things needed to succesfully run a country.
who would pay for the police, there is no profit in upholding the law outside your or your companys property, same with fire
departments and a lot of reaserch and developement, actually everything where there is no, or not good enough profit margin.
No police, well thats good news, no more worrying about maybee getting busted by the cops for buying the wrong chemicals or
telling people about your hobby, some of you may think. but think a little bigger, without law, the civilization as we know it will
soon collapse into chaos and anarchy. Man can not be relied on to follow the rules of a civilized society, if there is no one there
to .
If a big city lose electricity, it wont take long before those tendencies is shown.
in the US: "Alla Ackbar!!! KABOOOM" (On a second thought, no this would not happen, the enemy USA once was to Abdahlla
and his likes has already started to fall apart)

I was refering to the federal governmnet, concerning tarriffs and import duties (states aren't allowed to do that). We don't
need federal police. All crimes are commited within a county and within a state. The states should be willing to cooperate with
each other for law enforcemnet. 99% of the crimes committed against the federal government are by foreiners and employees
of the federal government. Let the military arrest and try them. The feds are spending about 100 times as much money as
they need to. If they were to stick to their constitutionaly assigned duties, the federal government , and it's authority over the
citizen, would be scaled back consideraably. In fact, the military should comprimise about 95% of government spending and
employmnet. They really aren't supposed to be doing a whole lot other than that. Tarriffs can pay for that, AND keep American
buisiness helthy. Planes are falling out the sky because the engines are bolted on with chinese hardware. You can't buy
anything made with good American steel anymore. We need to stop subsidsing china and it's retail outlet (walmart) and allow
american buisiness to thrive.
Tuatara October 14th, 2003, 10:45 PM

No, planes fall out of the sky because capitialism is driven by bean-counters who wont spend money on maintenance because
it doesn't return a profit. Its got nothing to do with the origin of the steel. I've seen some real shit product come out of the
US, and some good quality stuff come out of China. It all comes down to whether you are prepared to pay for quality.

NBK2000, you're a person after my own heart ! Capitalism all the way !
At one time I worked for the defense industry, then the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 and
my job as a systems/programmer analyst was over. I couldn't get back in because
I had no college degree, my clearance wasn't high enough, and my skills were
dated(mostly mainframes). Despite what happened, I acquired new skills in many
areas on my way back. Learning new skills and applying old ones where applicable
are the keys to survival. People have to learn that in this world shit happens and
jobs tend to follow economic cycles. I'll never be sorry for the collapse of Communism
despite the fact that me and many other people worked our way out of our jobs.
The threat of Communism is over, at least from the former Soviet Union.
Unfortunately, new threats have emerged and until these rogues wake up and smell
the shit they're shoveling, they won't have a chance of survival in what is now a
mostly capitalistic world. Keep the faith !
ossassin November 28th, 2003, 01:23 PM

History has shown that capitalism is the only economic system that works. Nazi socialism didn't work, Soviet communism didn't
work, and China is moving away from communism. It is far from pure communism. Capitalism works, solely because everyone
has reason to be motivated. They are allowed to keep their earnings, so they can profit off of their hard work, not the
government. In any other system, since it doesn't matter to them if they work hard or not, they don't! What a surprise!
In the US, our system of capitalism is limited, though. The government taxes us and gives us things like mediocre health care
in return. Leave it to the liberals to change a thriving economic system.
nuclearattack November 28th, 2003, 03:49 PM

i am a communist and i hate what companies are doing in the world. The globalization is destroing everything, the only god is
money for them! capitalism is not real freedom because companies rules and their interests are destroing a lot of people.
watch this fucking world against iraq! it's only for petrol and business related on war.
don't watch old russian communism... that wasn't real communism that was only a metod like another to use the power on
people!
i think that another type of communism can exist but it's a very long discussion to have it here.
i am a member of roguesci because i am interested on explosives not for talking about politics!
hi
nuclearattack
Pyrovus December 3rd, 2003, 12:58 AM

Just because there are worse alternatives to capitalism does not justify it, any more than saying that because genocide is bad,
homicide is OK. True, Soviet Communism was flawed, but it's hardly like it is the only possible alternative system. But
capitalism is also heavily flawed. For starters, the focus on market forces as a means of driving an economy, often portrayed
as a strength of capitalism is in fact, in the long term, a great weakness. Under market forces, decisions are made based on
greed rather than intelligence. The motivation is to do anything which will make a profit in the short term, even if it has terrible
consequences. For instance, suppose a company develops some extremely powerful pesticide that is more effective than any
other on the market. Is it terribly likely that they will make sure that it doesn't have terrible long term consequences before
they try to sell it? Of course not - by putting it on the market immediately they are guaranteed of enormous profits, and if
they wait to make sure it's safe, some other company may come up with a better product in the meantime. So it's simply a
matter of let's make a profit in the short term by selling this pesticide, and who cares if it'll cause a cancer epidemic in twenty
years time. Market forces bring about the practice of selling the future to pay for the present.
The other major flaw in capitalism is it's heavy emphasis on the resource called money. But what actually IS money? The way
in which it is continually referred to you would naturally assume that it is an incredibly valuable and useful resource, without
which nothing can possibly work. As money is seemingly so important to make anything work you would assume it is the very
basis of our technology. But where is it found? Easy, just grab some coins, right? But those coins aren't money, they are
merely a metal representation. They are accepted as money because they are perceived to be so. The place where you find
money is inside people's heads. It has no physical existance. Under the capitalist system, almost every aspect of people's
lives is governed by figments of people's imagination! Money is not some miraculous driving force that gets things done - you
can't use it to develop a hyperdrive in a year, even if you were to put a hundred trillion dollars into the project. Rather, it exists
as an excuse for why things CAN'T be done, despite the fact that they are easily physically possible. For instance, it is
physically possible for the problem of global warming to be solved within a few years, by replacing coal power with alternative
means such as solar and wind power. True, this will mean a great expenditure of materials in the very short term, but will lead
to a long term increase in efficiency - after all, these two methods of generating power, once established, work without any
further expenditure of materials, whereas coal and nuclear power require the continual mining and consumption of coal and
uranium respectively. By looking at what happens in capitalism from a resource based perspective, the absurdity of the system
quickly becomes clear. For instance, as a result of market forces, there have been many cases in which farmers have been
forced to destroy healthy crops, because it will cost more to harvest them than the farmer can sell them for. This happens
despite the fact that half the world's population is starving, so it is obvious that there is a use for the crops. But instead, the
resource is wasted.
The only issue that capitalism really appears to resolve is that of resource distribution - the theory that a person is paid
proportionately to how much work they put in. But as well as making there be LESS resources to distribute, for aforementioned
reasons, it isn't terribly good when subjected to scrutiny. While it is physically possible to feed everybody on Earth, we still have
third world countries. Of course, most people living in rich countries selfishly don't see this, and because they benefit from the
system see capitalism as good. If they lived on the other side it is unlikely they would still hold this view.
Capitalism is a system which concentrates wealth into the hands of a rich elite, ignores physical realities and as a result
diminishes efficiency, and as a result it has set the human race upon an underachieving and self-destructive path.
pornopete December 3rd, 2003, 03:12 AM

http://aspin.asu.edu/hpn/archives/Jan98/0144.html I think this rounds off this discussion quite nicely. But saying that im am
definantly pro capitalism, Im studying for a business degree paid from my hard earned taxed money, Im am doing something
for myself so I can advance in life, while there are lazy fuckers on the dole who complain about the rich having all the money
etc when it is the rich that technically is their employer..With out capitalism there would be no jobs it would be each man for
themselves and the best man will win and there will only be losers. To pyrovus Money is a means of exchange and has been
around since the start of man kind maybe not in the form it is today but there has always been trade offs Nothing is for free.

"Capitalism...as a result it has set the human race upon an underachieving and self-destructive path"
Whereas if we had all continued just looking after ourselves, growing and gathering what we individually needed, we'd be much
better off?
Money is something - a (relatively) constant value, allowing us to asses the worth of a wide range of things.
Pesticides would have to pass strict health trials before being allowed on the market - there is some rational intervention in
the system!
Pyrovus December 10th, 2003, 06:44 AM

The point that I was making is that capitalism is inefficient, and that it is reducing mankind's capacity to advance
technologically, and that it also has greatly reduced our capacity to react to things -eg we've known about global warming for
ages, yet it has been virtually impossible to do anything about it under the capitalist system. Capitalism suppresses
advancement by placing power into the hands of corporations for whom it is not in their interests for advancements to take
place, such as the way the oil corporations are doing their best to sabotage research into superior energy sources.
As for money. It does have two uses - as a convenient means of exchange to overcome the weaknessess of the barter
system, and as a "carrot" to encourage people to work. The problem with it is that it now has a life of its own, and it has
assumed enough importance that it really now gets in the way of things. It is undoubtedly the most inaccurate system of
measurement ever devised, and it is foolish to assume that distinctly different resources can be reduced down to a single one.
Steel is only equivalent to wheat if you have a particle accelerator and a LOT of power plants. The thing is, a lot more could
get done if money was simply abolished at government level, and the economy managed on the basis of physical materials
actually available. After all, whenever the Budget takes place, you will always see one area sacrificed to fund another, even
though those two areas may share very few common resources. By abolishing money at the government level, the limitiation
on what can be done will not be how much money is available, but what is physically possible. Any system in which you can
say, have all the concrete, medical equipment, staff etc, to build a hospital, but be unable to do so because you lack a certain
imaginary resource is really beneath contempt, and deserves to be smashed by another system not possessing these
weaknesses. Perhaps the biggest demonstration of the inefficiency of capitalism is the number of accountants, economists, etc
required to make the system actually work, when they are doing nothing whatsoever to generate any real resources that
anybody can actually use. Sure, people are used to money being an all-important force, but in the same way that people were
once used to the notion of the earth being flat.
While capitalism was useful to get industry off of the ground, it has really outlived its usefulness. It is a sick animal that needs
to be put out of its misery and replaced by a superior system.
That's all I can be bothered saying for now.
roux December 16th, 2003, 01:10 AM

capitalism is weak. socialism is MUCH better.
capitalism allows the rich to get richer, and the poor to get poorer. in many cases, i doesnt even matter how hard the poor
work.
capitalism allows for the exploitation of labor(you know, the people who accualy make capitalism possible)
in capitalism, wealth is distributed less evenly. this makes things harder for the smart poor people to get the jobs they
deserve and are better suited for.
soooooooo many problems can be prevented through socialism. crime, for example. what do you think the rich/poor ratio on
crime is? the poor greatly outnumber the rich. many of these crimes are caused by social inequalities. poor people steal
because they feel they need to(in most cases). if everyone were in the middle class, no one would feel oppressed, no one
would be pissed with eachother(for the most part), and everyone wins....well....exept the rich.
and it would be sooo easy. all it would take is higher income taxation, and more social programs.
----------------------------------------
Ever heard of capitalization? Use it!
Rhadon
pornopete December 16th, 2003, 03:39 AM

Peoples situations are always going to be different, No regime can make any individual an equal no matter how hard they try.
Why the hell should wealth be distributed evenly when not everyone works the same job or as hard as the next guy?People
shouldnt get taxed differently just because they have the brains to earn a higher income. People here are making the
economic term "capitalism" out to be evil. Where anyone here that is into making mostly illegal bombs etc is supporting
capitalism in the sense that all individuals are indepent and should be free to persue their own interests(economic freedom an
element of capitalism) Basically anyone that buys a good or service not produced by themselves is supporting capitalism, as
capitalism is the selling of goods and services for a profit....
roux December 16th, 2003, 08:04 PM

dont get market socialism(what i am talking about) confused with communism(what you are talking about). never did i say
wealth should be distributed totally equally. but you gotta realize that these days capitalism is damn near inevitable, dont
think i never thought of that. i sugest you study market socialism before you start putting words into my mouth.
keith January 4th, 2004, 02:58 AM

Pro National Socialist.
One giant military is how a country should be.
Can you say Sparta.....
Voyager January 8th, 2004, 02:23 AM

On the topic of capitalism, I am a slightly more ardent fan than Adam Smith.
"The natural effort of every individual to better his own condition is so powerful that it is alone, and without any assistance, not
only capable of carrying on the society to wealth and prosperity, but of surmounting a hundred impertinent obstructions with
which the folly of human laws too often encumbers its operations." -- Adam Smith
I put some other quotes on Economincs up at http://www.fortliberty.org/quotes/economics.shtml
All of you socialists should read _The Road to Serfdom_ and _Free to Choose_. Seriously.
zyk43 January 8th, 2004, 08:08 PM

I think that neither extreme Capitalism nor extreme communism works.
The problem with extreme capitalism is that in the end corporations rule the world, money is the most important thing in a
capitalist state and corporations are bexst at making that, they pay their workers the lowest wage they can get away with and
they dont care what they bulldoze, kill, squash to get more money.
The issue with communism (from my point of view) is that although in principal it should give most people a reasonable level
of happiness if falls down in one major area; humans just arent naturally communist. From right back in the depths of time
humans have owned property, just like most other animals. Cave men had their own caves, we have our own houses, the robin
that lives in the tree nearby regards the area around as his and will fight off most things that come into it. Its just not natural
not to own anything and not to try and better yourself.
I think a balance has to be struck whereby corporations are prevented fromstriving for the most money possible at the
expense of normal people, yet individual people can still develop themselves as they naturally would do.
The important thing from my point of view is that we should keep society serving the people who created it not faceless
corporations that have grown out of greed

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Looking for powerpoint
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View Full Version : Looking for powerpoint
megalomania S e p t e m b e r 1 2th, 2003, 04:52 PM

I a m looking for any version of powerpoint. I have a presentatio n thing to do and it must be done in powerpoint,
u n f o r t u n a t e l y m y cop y o f o f f i c e does n t include it. I don t f e e l l i k e d o wnloading office 2003 if I can avoid it as that would be
q u i t e t h e b u r d e n o n m y crappy com puter. A n i c e s t a n d a l o n e v e r s i o n o f powerpoint would be nice. Since this is nt exactly you r
stan dard bit of warez I was ho ping som e o n e o u t t h e r e c o u l d h o o k m e up .
a_bab S e p t e m b e r 1 2th, 2003, 05:28 PM

W ell, I have Office 97 and 2000 kit if you want. There is no Power Point kit to my knowledge. There are som e free W ord of
Excel file readers though.

O h , n e v e r m ind, it popped up on kazaa and I got it. And only ~5 MB.
EDIT: And of course it does not work... it says m y OS is not presently configured to run the application. What a load of crap, I
g u e s s t h a t i s a g e n t l e e u p h a m ism for you must upgrade to W indows XP.
Spudkilla S e p t e m b e r 1 2th, 2003, 09:15 PM

U m . Never download anything off of Kazzaa unless it is MP3 files or porn. If fact, fuck Kazza altogether. PowerPoint is
definently not less than 5 m e g a b y t e s , s o I r e c o m m end running a virus scan. I couldn't find any pu blic sources of PowerPoint on
IRC. So, just steal the shit from W a l m a r t .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Sodium Chlorate p aper
propellant
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View Full Version : Sodium Chlorate paper propellant
Wild Catmage S e p t e m b e r 1 5th, 2003, 03:16 PM

After searching the fo rum for sodium chlorate related explosives, I found that there was nothing sim ilar to what I have been
e x p e r i m enting with recently. C o n s e q u e n t l y I d e cided to write this article. As this is only m y second post I placed it in the water
cooler, but hopefully if it is worthy, a m od will m ove it som ewhere else.
Sodium chlorate is available a s a weed killer in most countries, although in the UK fire suppressant has been added to it.
W h e r e a s t h e UK s c h l o r a t e i s a r o u n d 5 0 % f i r e s u p p r e s s a n t : ( , i f y o u p o p a c r o s s t h e channel using the Eurotunne l, they sell
9 9 % p u r e S o d i u m C h l o r a t e . I t i s a v a i l a b l e f r o m m o s t l a r g e s u p e r m a r k e t s o n the con tinent (including C it Europe s C a r r e f o u r )
i n 1 k g a n d 5 k g t i n s a nd is a yellow colour. It is also renam e d t o s o m e t h i n g l i k e C h l o r a t e d e S o u d e .
T h e c h l o r a t e c a n b e s o a k e d i n t o p a p e r t o m a k e a v e r s a tile product that can be used for a number of things includin g fusing,
rocket propellant and possibly as an incendiary (it will m elt alum inium which m eans it reaches a tem perature of at least 660
degrees C). Advantages of this product over black powd er are:
It is quicker and sim p l e r t o m a k e
I t i s l e s s m e s s y t o m a k e t h e n b l a c k powder
It burns cleanly with little debris, although it produces sm o k e
T o m a k e t h i s p r o d u c t ( s o m e o n e s u g g e s t a n a m e for it please), you will need to mix up a saturated solution of sodium chlorate
and water. To do this, I dissolved 4 de ssertspoons of chlorate in 300 ml of boiling water (sorry about the im precise
m easurem ents).
I then took 15 sheets of kitchen roll/kitchen tissue/kitchen paper and soaked it in the solution, be fore spreading it out to dry
in the sun. The sheets were left very wet as I took little effort to squeeze them, but if you did, I believe that you could m a k e a
larger batch with the sam e a m ount of solution.
It to ok about 4 hours in the sun to dry the sheets, but once that was done, I ended up with a fairly insensitive product.
However, I later found that the product will explode if struck hard with a hamm e r a n d a p u nch (I was ram m i n g r o c k e t e n g i n e s
the kewl way when it happened :eek: and luckily I suffe red only minor injuries and blistering on my right hand but I now know
to be more careful when using this stuff).
W ARNING: A spillage of chlora te solution on plants will most likely kill them. There may be problems with the debris killing
plan ts too, b u t I h a v e n t e x p e r i e n c e d t h i s p e rsonally. Also chlorate soaked clothing is bad, as it ignites easily.
DBSP S e p t e m b e r 1 5th, 2003, 03:36 PM

Have you tried any of the rocket engines yet? if so how did it work.
Here chlorates are two expensive to buy unfortunately.
This is how n ew m embers should start out!!:)
Wild Catmage S e p t e m b e r 1 5th, 2003, 03:49 PM

T h e r o c k e t e n g i n e s I m a d e w e r e a b o u t 1 . 5 i n c h e s l o n g a n d 0 . 2 5 of an inch in diam e t r e . I m a d e t h e c a s i n g s f r o m a l u m inium
f o i l a n d u s e d h a l f a b amboo skewer (split lengthways) to stabilise it. The propellant was tightly rolled up and not ram m e d ( I
wound the casing around the propellant). I m a d e a c r u d e n o z z l e by bending the foil and inserted a fuse m a d e f r o m the
propellant. These rockets travelled to just over the height of a norm a l h o u s e ( a b o u t 1 0 - 1 2 m e t r e s I g u e s s ) .
W ith a prope rly m ade casing and nozzle, I expect that they will do a lot better.
T h e p r o p e l l a n t s e e m ed to burn quite fast within the rocket and as I result, I reckon that the rocket spent m ost of its time
coasting upwards.
EDIT - If I ever get a digital cam era or happen to 'acquire' one from s o m ewhere I'll try and get som e pics of the rockets.
EDIT - Sorry Arkangel - I only searched for sodium chlorate related articles, whereas Axt's rockets were pottassium nitrate
based, which is why m y searches didn't find it.
Arkangel S e p t e m b e r 1 5th, 2003, 07:49 PM

After searching the fo rum for sodium chlorate related explosives, I found that there was nothing sim ilar to what I have been
e x p e r i m enting with recently
Are you sure? http://www.roguesci.org/theforum /showthread.php?s=&thre adid=2844
Not all that o riginal I'm afraid.
Although this is in the watercooler, it shows me that you 're not paying proper attention to the rest of the bo ard.
C- could do better.
knowledgehungry S e p t e m b e r 1 5th, 2003, 08:53 PM

After all the crap ive been see ing from newbs this was a refreshing change, as its your idea m ore or less, you can nam e it.
nbk2000 S e p t e m b e r 1 5th, 2003, 10:32 PM

As long as it's not plagerism.
blindreeper S e p t e m b e r 1 6th, 2003, 03:56 AM

This appears to be very sim lilar to way the form er m od "J", used chlorate weedkiller. He called it "Chlorate/TP"
http://www.geocities.com/thejuiceuk/tp prop.htm l
http://www.geocities.com/thejuiceuk/ro ckets.htm l
I like rockets and have just finished m a k i n g t h e a l u m inium spindle for m y BP ones. But I have heard rumo urs that you can get
chlorate weedkiller in oz under the brand name "insta-g o" It is a liquid and is basicly a saturated solution. I may try this
propellent if I find the weedkiller
nbk2000 S e p t e m b e r 1 6th, 2003, 04:05 AM

Chlorate is the oxidizer and cellullose the fuel. Now, since the degree of intimacy with which these are m ixed affects the rate of
c o m b u s t i o n , y o u m ay want to try using the cellulose filtering aid found at pool suppliers. It's pure cellulose, in very finely
c h o p p e d f i b e r form, and would m a k e a g r e a t f u e l I ' d t h i n k .
Soak the fibers in a boiling (saturated) solution of chlorate, scoop it into your rocket body, and ram it. The excess solution is
forced out, and the fibers are bound together by the crystallized chlorate when it cools, forming a highly dense propellant
grain. :)
Also, your rockets m ay be more effective if they are restrained during their initial burning,when the propellant is starting to
burn, but hasn't reached full com bustion. This keeps the rockets from becom ing unstable at low speed whe n it first leaves the
rail. Once they're at full thrust, then they can be launched at high speed, thus highly stable too. :D
A sh ear wire would be sufficient.
vulture S e p t e m b e r 1 6th, 2003, 05:34 AM

The excess solution is forced out,
You'll loose quite alot of chlorate that way, considering the insane solubility of NaClO3.
Furthermore, it will be hard to control the chlorate content and thus hard to contro l OB/perform ance.
zeocrash S e p t e m b e r 1 6th, 2003, 07:29 AM

i thought chlorates weren't good to get wet.
wouldn't usin g NaNO3 as the oxidiser work better as the re would be no break down into chloric acid or that could cau se
spontaneous combustion
vulture S e p t e m b e r 1 6th, 2003, 08:30 AM

Unless you're going to throw a strong acid (since HClO3 is a strong acid itself) into the solution, it's perfectly safe to dissolve
chlorates.
NaNO3/paper will just smolder.
shooter3 S e p t e m b e r 1 6th, 2003, 09:56 PM

Your m ethod e is a little different than m ine was, but you still have a fair risk of detoation, so be careful.
My little accident involved a spill on corigated cardboard. I rolled up the dried spill in a tight roll to throw it out and desided to
burn it instead. Being very cautious, I used a fuse and was 10 yards away befor it caught fire. EXTREMELY fast burning then
POW !
I'm glad that it was m ostly burnt before the detonation!:eek:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Message for NBK
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Tuatara S e p t e m b e r 1 6th, 2003, 06:57 AM

No other way to reply to your em ail so I'm stick ing it here. Delete when read.
I'd be happy to price your circuit for you - just compress any pics, I'm on dial-up :(
Ugh, Echelon - I'm setting up pgp right now!

W hen you've got it setup, upload your key som ewhere, or e-mail it to m e at forum scan@yahoo.com (forgot that one eh? ;)).
I'll get it off to you th en. :)

Here's the file for you.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > would it be possible to break the roots of my garden cherry tree with
blackpowder?
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serene September 16th, 2003, 06:31 PM

Hello people.
Right i have a cherry tree in my garden that needs to be taken down as it has started to grow all the way under the paving slabs about 2 meters away. I was going to use a
saw for the main part of the tree but i am not sure how to get the main roots out. The roots are very thick and hard to get to with the saw so i currently have a problem with
breaking them from the main stump.
I have currently run out of chemicals to make anything but BP so bear that in mind. Anyway, i was wondering if it would be possible to put something by the roots (maybe
under them, or drill into them) that could give off enough force to break them from the main stump. These roots are in simple words 'a bitch' to get out of the ground so any
advice you could give me would be very appreciated.
Or if you know any other ways to remove stumps etc then let me know on here

if you can make good enough BP then it should be good enough. they used BP in the old days for rock blasting after all.
personly i'd choose an ANFO type comp, or a cheddite. but for those you'd need more chemicals. if you could aquire nitromethane and ammonum nitrate then you'd have a
decent charge to use. may end up splintering the roots rather than shifting them though. i'm sure you could get the chemicals for a simple AP detonator.

Make a saturated solution of KNO3 (which you must have if you can make BP), and pour it into the roots after drilling holes in them. Let soak for a few weeks, repeating as
needed, then light it up. :)
The roots will smolder into charcoal and be gone.
Trying to blast them out will likely cause more trouble than it'll solve. Not every problem is a nail to be hit with the explosives hammer. ;)

Good grief! Hire a fucking stump grinder, remove everything above ground, and let the bloody roots rot out! They'll be gone in a year. Untreated timber disintegrates really fast
in soil - theres all sorts of bacteria and fungi eagerly awaiting the chance to do your work for you.

But that's nowhere near as fun as blowing them up, or burning them out, now is it? ;)

NBK I beg to differ, any problem can be solved with a suitable application of high explosives.:D
serene September 17th, 2003, 09:14 AM

I think that the idea of waiting a year wont be too good for my garden as the roots are currently liftin up the pavin slabs (2 slaps are about 2.5 inches higher than the rest).
Kinspaz. I do have 1/2 a jar of ammonim nitrate but i thought it needed quite a large shock to detonate. Would i be able to detonate it with the chemicals i have??
I think that NBk's idea is the way i will probably get them out.
DBSP September 17th, 2003, 11:04 AM

Make some AP and you'll be set, APAN is your choise of explosive. Not that hard to get rid of those roots.

Depends how far away the closest windows are....
frogfot September 17th, 2003, 03:04 PM

Explosives is not a solution here, cherry trees usually gives lots of small roots in big radius around main tree. Theese roots are capable to give new shoots, so, destroying roots
of main tree wouldn't kill it all...
In mine experience theese shoots usually come up when the main tree is sawed down. Other cherry trees that are "intact" don't have as many shoots..
Don't have a solution, but making the soil "harder to live in" sounds promicing :p poisoning it somehow, hihi
serene September 17th, 2003, 06:23 PM

Okay for your knowledge i will give you all an idea of the layout of this section of the garden.
If your were under cherry tree and facing it you would:
1) Have a 7 foot fence to the next house about 4 foot infront of you
2) Have the paving slabs 1.5 meters to your left
3) Have glass windows about 4 meters to your left
4) Have the another fence 3 meters to the right of you
the layout would be something like this from an arial view (not to scale and sorry for the crudeness of the picture). This is the only place i know to upload pictures too. This
was back in the day so dont judge me on this bikerpunk shit lol.
http://www.bikeflat.com/albums/users/garden.jpg
VladiO September 17th, 2003, 11:37 PM

There's gotta be a type of chemical out there than will run through the tree (assuming you have it in whole still) that will break down cells and kill the tree and roots. Although
it would have to go in through the roots initially so you would have to poison the ground as frogfot said. If there was a way of having a solution go down to the roots instead of
up, you would inject the tree (Lethal Injection =\) and watch it die.
Blowing it out will probably leave a decent hole in your yard, in which case you may as well save yourself the trouble and risk by using a big ass shovel.
If you wanna try and unleash some termites on the tree that might do the trick if you could contain them.
4 meters is definitly too close for windows if you want to blast the stump out IMHO.
Chemical_burn September 18th, 2003, 01:30 AM

My god has everyone forgot what a good sharp axe is for! LOL :D
I would go with NBK's idea.
As for another way you could cut down the tree and cut out most of the stump till only the roots remain just below the gounds surface. Then you dig out the dirt around the
roots and fill in around them with charcol and burn out the stump just let it smolder for a day or two everyonce in a while stiring the coals. This method works very well. Also
you can cut out the stump and peel back most of the bark on the roots and soak them with dirty motor oil. It works good but tends to contaiminate the soil around the tree.
Hmm also thinking about it you could dig out the stump and pack the hole with rock salt the salt will obsorbe the water form the roots and kill them then you just dig out the
salt and throw it away then cover up the roots with dirt. I dont know if the salt will work very well though I have used it to kill weeds before but I never removed the salt to is
contaminated the soil and nothiong ever grew there again too alkaline for most things.

Of course, a few years ago, at the height of my chemical limitedness, I dug out a massive area of bamboo, cutting it off at the base, and digging the entire root system out of
the ground. I had a hole up to my waist, and about 4x3 metres around. :(
Aside from taking me a month of weekend work, it confirmed my belief that bamboo is eveil, and that the use of explosives in such situations IS justified.

A trip to the garden shop should arm you with enough toxic chemicals to kill anything. I'm not sure if glyphosate works well on trees, but there are other things designed to kill
things like hardwoods, privet and bamboo. I agree Gibbonet - bamboo is totally evil. Makes good garden stakes though.

Inject saturated NaClO3 solution, which is a powerful poison for plants. After it dies, inject more NaClO3 and proceed to burn, just like NBK suggested. The NaClO3 will make
ignition *somewhat* easier. :D

I hate to be a party pooper but it would take a LOT of KNO3 or NaClO3 to get the job done even if the roots were sitting in the open and you were dumping O carrier on top.
Trying to get the wood to soak up enough oxidizer while it is still under ground is most likely impossible. Drilling won't make your job easier either, b/c you would have to drill
holes within 10-15 cm from each other, meaning that you would have to dig up the entire root system anyway. The only thing that you can hope to achieve via this method
would be for roots to decompose much quicker. So I would say cut it down and keep offspring from coming out with some chems (I think salt will work, it can be obtained at
low price in large chunks). But of course that would mean no more garden for you. :-(

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Would a safe be safe?
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Castler September 16th, 2003, 07:32 PM

Hi everyone. I'm writing a fiction book, and I need the knowledgeable opinion of people such as yourselves. In my book, a house is filled or nearly filled or partially filled with
natural gas from the stove or oven, and then set afire, at which point I assume it would explode in some sort of fireball. Please feel free to explain to me in detail what might
really happen. Anyhow, I would like a steel or iron safe to survive the blast. First of all, is my scenario feasible, and how damaged would this safe actually be?
Thanks for any consideration.
Castler.

you obviously haven't read the rules and aren't here to learn the 'trade' however, should you be willing to give credit to roguesci in your book i'm sure we can help you out. this
thread is being transferred to the water cooler where it is more suitable.
edit: i believe a safe would survive the blast. of course for the explosion there would have to be some sort of ignition source. this could be anything, the static from
somebody's football shirt (some kid got killed like that when playing with propane IIRC). it could be the spark from a light switch, a cigarette being lit, or possibly the static
from a tv screen as someone brushes past.
what would happen is that deflagration (burning) of the gas/air mixture would occur at lightning fast speed from the ignition point. this would create as you say a 'fireball' only
at very high speed (not like shit you see on films). hot gas takes up more space than cold gas, thus, the air in the room takes up more space than it used to so the now hot
air, in effect, pushes the room down. these type of explosions are great for leveling of 'soft' tragets such as ordinary buildings. but as they do not have a shattering effect as
high explosives do there is little chance the safe will be destroyed. it will simply be blasted out the way which i'm sure some 10mm steel will handle.

I apologize if I posted in the wrong forum. Thanks for the quick reply, and I'll only use the information for my book. Mentioning Rogue Science would not be a problem, but I
am in the planning phase and have no idea when I might finish it.
1. What would the fireball look like?
2. By 'out of the way', do you mean the safe would end up far away from the rest of the remains?
3. Do you think the iron be blackened, or reddened, or affected in any way by the explosion?
4. Sorry if I offended anyone by asking if you really pray to Satan. It's written in the newbie FAQ. Though I am curious as to whether to take the claims seriously or not, your
personal affairs aren't my business.
Sincerely,
Castler
PS - As for learning the trade, I quite appreciate roguery, and have briefly explored lockpicking, fences, Ninpo Taijutsu, and other things; but sadly I have never been much of
a scientist.

You guys don't really pray to Satan, do you?
I don't know about the rest of the Forumites but, since I wrote the rules and I do pray to Satan, I felt entitled to include that. :)
I'm everyone's worst nightmare...a Satan worshipping, pyromaniac, ex-con. :p
Also, what would be the point behind the explosion? To destroy evidence, to kill someone, what? Without context, the answer would be meaningless.
Also, as previously mentioned, it sounds like you're just here to use us as a technical consultant to answer a question about a plot device you're planning on using, not to learn
the craft. Unless your Tom Clancy ;), we could give a rats ass less about getting credit in a some no-namers novel. :p
Pay someone to answer your questions because we're not a free writers resource. There's a nice series of books for that very purpose, and you'd be well served to buy the
relevant one. Search amazon for it and, no, I'm not telling you what they're called either. SEARCH!

Ah, well, thanks anyway. Feel free to delete my name from the members.

Dum dum dum...another one bites the dust. :)
Another day, another sacrifice to feed the ever hungry maw of the Dark Lord HED.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > I need som e help here
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THErAPIST S e p t e m b e r 1 7th, 2003, 01:54 AM

Hey guys, I've got a video that I'm sure m a n y o f y o u h a v e s e e n that's sideways. Something aroun d 50 pounds of ANFO b e i n g
set off... Anyways, I need a program that will let me turn the video 90 to the left so that its right side up a nd not sideways. I
h a v e A d o b e P r e m i e r e 6 . 5 a n d I t d o e s n ' t s e e m to be able to turn videos.
I f a n y o n e k n ows of any software that I can get for free (or if not I'll just crack it) that will enable m e to rota te a video I would
be greatful. Or would everyone rather crane their head to watch a segment of a video while the rest of the video is right side
up? Hell now that I th ink about it all I really need is a trial of a program as I only need it long enough to rotate ONE video...
Thanks
a_bab S e p t e m b e r 1 7th, 2003, 03:51 AM

A quick dirty solution would be to extract all the fram es into image files, turn the images with a batch program a n d m a k e t h e
video again from f r a m e s .
grendel23 S e p t e m b e r 1 7th, 2003, 04:59 AM

VirtualDub will do this, use the filter called "rotate". Get it here (http://www.gbg.bonet.se/toniswe/divx4Tut/VirtualDub-
1_4_9.zip) .
Here (http://divx4tut.cjb.net/) is a tutorial to help you set it up, its for ripping DVD's, but has good info on how to set up
compression.
THErAPIST S e p t e m b e r 1 7th, 2003, 06:05 PM

T h a n k s . T h e f r a m e by frame way would have taken m e a w e e k , a n d t h a t ' s i f I o n l y t o o k b r e a k s t o u s e t h e b a t h r o o m a n d g e t
s o m ething to drink ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > m etallica extra UK date
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zeocrash S e p t e m b e r 1 7th, 2003, 02:37 PM

yes that's rig ht people. the 20th of dec sold out in an hour (the standing tickets sold out in 2 mins)
and now m etallica have added another date, the 19th o f decem ber to their tour.
and i have standing tickets woohoo.
e d i t : a p o l o g i e s f o r m y excitem ent

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Activ Ebook security - help needed
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This topic is a last resort, and a plee for help! I've exhausted most other channels, and some forum members.
I'll try to be as concise as possible, but some details won't be revealed so we can keep this theoretical ;) Right, I was wondering if it was possible to get around a password on
an "Activ E-book" file. The reason for this is that as soon as someone was able to get the password, they could set the file to print (as that option is enabled), and use adobe
to create a PDF from it. This would then allow you to easily distribute the file, as I think there is a program that allows the original creators to lock any activ ebook file remotely
if they suspect you've been sharing it around. Let's just say people could gain access to very interesting books if they could get round the password, but obviously it would be
applied to files they wrote, and then forgot the password...
Any help at all regarding this would be useful, but bear in mind it isn't something like an Adobe Ebook which has many weaknesses. And Jelly, check your email more often!
wrench352 September 17th, 2003, 06:24 PM

I would have emailed you if I could have as I got in trouble for asking about this kind of thing before.There are many different password recovery programs at cnet.com
downloads.You might find what your looking for there.

IIRC you asked about PDFs - this is in no way connected to PDFs, this is to do with the Activ Ebook file format. Yes, PDFs and the Adobe Ebook format is easy to crack, but
that's something else. No discussion of PDF cracking will be allowed in this topic - the info's out there, you can find it in a couple of seconds on google.

Sorry not familiar with the format.Thought you meant Adobe.Activ seems like a tough nut to crack.What about these "compilers" I see.
4.22 has a key recovery for registered users,dont know if this will help-
http://www.ebookcompiler.com/download.html
Let me know how this works
FragmentedSanity September 30th, 2003, 09:40 PM

Lo all :)
I was just wondering if anyone had made any progress on this subject. I have been trying to find way to do this for a while now.
http://hppublish.com/ is a site with a bunch of ebooks that I atleast find interesting. I have a few older files from the same place, which I can read by just opening it after the
start page - or going through the menu to find a table of contents or some other way to get to the info, but the new files dont work that way anymore. Some are
downloadable by PDF tho - and that is easy enough to crack - it just takes time.
Surely there is a way, I suppose that there just hasnt been enough interest in this format to warant anyone with the knowhow actually making a crack. There must be some
member with the skills - or the connections to make this happen. I really doubt Zaibatsu would be asking this if there wasnt some nifty info just currently out of reach, given
what he's already made available over the years.
FS
nbk2000 October 1st, 2003, 01:29 AM

There are screen-shot programs that can do OCR of anything visible on the screen. Zaibatsu, you may wish to find one of these programs and give it a try.
zaibatsu October 3rd, 2003, 09:28 PM

Fragmented Sanity:
Yes, you can download the PDF, that would be very easy to crack, but you first have to get past the zip password. I've tried bruteforcing it up to 8 characters long consisting of
lower and uppercase letters, symbols, numbers and spaces, but no luck, tried using a wordlist etc. I did try to get round it by going onto the page of contents and trying to get
to the sections through that, but unfortunately it asks for a password. Tried to get it to print, but it'll only print a couple of pages that you can view anyway. Even downloaded
the Activ Ebook program to try and get into it, but that's difficult to understand as it is.
NBK:
I had a similar idea, but you can't even view the pages. If you can break the password, you are permitted to print the document. I don't like the format (Activ Ebook) as there
are addons that allow you to lock copies of the book (when in Activ Ebook format) remotely, and I don't like the idea of anything interferring with my computer from affar. I
think the ebooks are searchable too, so as soon as the password has been removed you can just print straight to Adobe and end up with a fairly small file.
All:
Unfortunately there hasn't been time recently to investigate this further, but it seems there are two options: break the zip password or the activ ebooks.
nbk2000 October 4th, 2003, 01:26 AM

There are ZIP password attack programs that can distibute the attack across many computers. If 50 people downloaded the files, and used the same attack program, that'd
reduce the time to 1/50th of what it would take one computer to do the task.
I wonder if they're foolish enough to use the same password for different files? Any idea on what the maximum password length is on a ZIP?
Also, if the sample pages are from the book, perhaps a known plaintext attack would be possible, instead of bruteforcing it.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > New World Order
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Alright, I have been blessed with a slightly eccentric, extremely right wing American history teacher(better than all those lefty
bleeding heart liberals). Now he has brought up the theory of the "New World Order" the theory he claims is that several
societies run the world together, the list is: the illuminati, rosecrucions, hilderbergers, high level masons, tri-lateral
commission, council on foreign relations and the skull and bones society.
Do any of you have any opinions, beliefs, evidences on this?
I am skeptical, however I do believe that people are pulling strings and that the governments are more or less puppets, but
the question for me is whose are they? Are they merely pawns to corporations? Or are they the puppets of a more sinister
master?
Nihilist September 17th, 2003, 06:54 PM

I have three letters for you, "o", "i", and "l". Oil companies, and saudi-arabian monarch's, run the world(not just because of
the current war situation in America, but they always have ever since oil became a "necessity").
bobo September 17th, 2003, 07:46 PM

The Saudi's would rule nothing but goats and sand if they had no oil. Now the western world gives them some pocket change
in exchange for the nectar of life our society cannot do without. Because the Saudi's (the family not the nationals) like their
way of life too much they will not change this. They are the addicts of western money and definetely not in control of anything
except their own private whorehouse.

I personally have a hard time beliveing it. I'm just about finishe da book on the american militia movements, ("Gathering
Storm - America's militia threat") It tells the story of many militias, and why they fight... the two main reasons so far are
religion (white christians trying to 'cleanse' their country) and those that believe that the world is governed my a singular group
of people, often seen to be jews.
I can see why people would believe that sort of thing, but I can't believe that there has nevre been anything proven. It sounds
to me like some people need a reason to take up weapons, so they pretty much make a lot of it up.
I wouldn't discount it though, in all probability, there is some from of one world govenment on the way, if it's not here already.

Don't the TriLat and CFR already run the world?

I think your history teacher has been playing too much Deus Ex. While I wouldn't be surprised if there are some "secret
societies" do exist such as "MJ-12" and the "Illuminati" most of the time they are just stories made up so that some creative
writer can put bread on the table.
As for the New World Order, well the rich are getting richer the poor are getting poorer. There will be even less people in
developed countries and even more people in under developed countries, so the balance of power will be with fewer people.

Go read The Prize (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671799320/102-8464327-8576916?v=glance) - It will
explain an awful lof of what's happened
in the world for the last century or so. Including a nice history of
how Iraq & Iran ended up the way they currently are.
TreverSlyFox September 19th, 2003, 02:44 AM

I don't put much stock in the Illuminati, Tri-Lat, Masons, Skull & Bones. Now the United Nations is a whole different story.
Given an inch I have no doubt they'ed jump at the chance. At least for the U.S. I think the people pulling strings are the
Interntional Bankers and the Federal Reserve which isn't Federal at all it's a Bank.
GibboNet,
I'ed take those books with a BIG grain of salt. I've been with/around the Militia for a very long time and the majority aren't as
described in those books. Most are just average citizens that DO understand what Citizenship means and it's responsibility.
Are there nut cases in the Militia? YUP there sure are. But then the average joe type Militia member doesn't rate Books and
"News" reports about them. Can't sell books and news papers about the average Militia member because they'er just boring,
regular people.
Isn't it funny that the Militia is spoken of in our Bill of Rights (2nd Amendment) and is defined in Federal law as: Organized
Militia = Standing Army, National Guard, State Guards.
Unorganized Militia = All Able bodied men (and women) between the ages of 17 & 45 years old (to age 65 if prior Military). We
are the last check and balance put into place by our founding fathers against what their new form of government COULD
become. They knew it could become much worse than what they just fought to overthrough.
Considering what the Unorganized Militia is and was ment to be. Is there any wounder why the Powers-That-Be would want to
see it belittled, degraded, and portrayed as racist, anti-semetic nuts with guns and domestic terrorists. Now why would the
Powers-That-Be be afraid of the Unorganized Militia? The revolution was only supported by 1/3 of the population in 1776 and
only 3% of the population actually took up arms and fought. That's only 3,000,000 people in todays population and 3 million
armed Citizens outnumber the U.S. Armed Forces, Federal Agents and Marshals and every Local and State LEOs combined.
Here in the U.S. we can arm 80,000,000 citizens. Are you getting the Big Picture yet?
+++++++++++
Leave off the "Trever" at the end of your posts. That's not permitted, as per The Rules, as it's highly annoying. Other than
that, I agree with your reasoning on why militias are portrayed as a collection of dangerous wackos.
If anything, it's more like a collection of losers who like to play weekend warrior, but that wouldn't scare the sheeple into voting
for gun-control. :(
NBK
Dromaeus September 19th, 2003, 07:00 PM

GibboNet: I think that if you want to know what those people that are often labeled as militia nuts or anti-semitists really think
and why, you should read books that are written by them and not by their opponents.
For example, some Jewish organizations attacked Professor Kevin MacDonald after he published his very thoroughly
res earched book Cultu re of Critique , which explains the origins of radical le ftists m o v e m ents a nd multicultu ralism.
Also, if you want to learn what some people that the establishment media pictures as gun nuts or such think you could read,
for example, Thomas Chittum s Civil War II the Co ming Breakup of America .
I think that both of the above mentioned writers are quite intelligent and that the issues they are writing are important.
Kevin MacDonalds Culture of Critique can be downloaded at:

http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion2/goyim/
Thomas W. Chittums Civil War II can be downloaded at:

http://www.geocities.com/anakonda_fi/

I believe George Bush Sr was a member of the Skull and Bones Society.Ive also read about the Hildebergers and believe they
exist.I read an expose about the freemasons and I think its just crap from being all secretive,their no different from the
moose club.I suppose one group could try to control the world but eventually they'd be marginallized(dont think thats the right
word) by groups ala Al Queda,North korea,those pesky Ruskies or the lesser African states.Or us.People that refuse to play by
the rules
As far as american militia goes,I remember when they were'nt synonomous with anti-semitism,racism.When you could do your
part deterring the red menace.
I think there may be a return to those times.
Hey does anybody read Shotgun News?(GREAT READ)There is a guy named Fred who writes articles every issue.He cracks me
up,he's convinced the UN will take over the US.His article alone is worth the cost of an issue.
The Illumanati theory is interesting,IIRC they want everybody to use ATM/debit/credit cards instead of cash to track/therefore/
control the flow of money so as to deny it to certain groups of people.I dont make this stuff up I just read alot.
Also to our non-American friends,the militia stuff is just sensationalism,true there are alot of militant fringe groups and alot of
their members wear these:
you might need one if you think the freemasons are taking over (http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html)
But as long as we keep having election and this forum everything will work out fine
metafractal September 23rd, 2003, 06:17 AM

All of you must read John Ronson's Book "Them: Adventures with Extremists (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0743233212/qid=1064308378/sr=2-1/002-5205428-2161668?v=glance&s=books#product-details) ". Its a wonderful book
written by a journalist who goes and spends time with a number of 'extremists'. Its hard to know how much creative lisence he
uses, but supposing everything he writes is true (unlikely), its would be pretty hard to deny the existence of the Bilderberg
Group.
vulture September 23rd, 2003, 07:09 AM

The UN taking over the US? HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
That's just neoconservative propaganda to mask the fact that the US took over the UN a long time ago.
There's only one thing that makes the world go round: Money.
They who have it can steer it's rotation, but not halt it.

The United Nations is a joke ! Most of their funding comes from the Unites States.
For that reason, they wouldn't exist without the United States. What pisses me off
about the UN is that they let nations like North Korea, China, Libya, Cuba and
other oppressive regimes sit on their human rights council. Is that a sick joke ?
That's like letting a fox guard the henhouse. I can't take seriously any organization
that operates that way. As for any New World Order, get armed and stay armed.
It's hard for dictators and other despots to oppress an armed society.
I've read both CWII and the Jew Critique books and found them both very interesting.
The more you know about this stuff, the more you come to see how fucked up the world is when you see things on TV or on
the radio.
OOOO...funny thing I've been following on a local public radio station...
There's this guy called "George" who keeps calling these black hosts of one of those "Whitey is oppressing us poor negro's"
type shows you hear on public access, and asking them what there thoughts are on the Bell Curve book, the state of Africa,
black crime rates, etc.
Anyways, he (george) is constantly getting slammed by the nigs, being called stupid, ignorant, racist, a closet homosexual
who's lusting after the black DJ's, jealous of their penis size, etc, while the nigs are boasting about how intelligent they are,
superior in strength/intellect/penis size, etc.
And the funniest part is that the nigs never once refuted anything george said. :) They just simply attacked the messenger,
following all the laws of disinformation, while blatently ignoring the question george was asking.
George come off as being very articulate, polite, and calm. The nigs began stuttering, repeating words several times, while
becoming higly agitated and rude. Not a good example of the "Superior" black race. :p
As for Fred in the Shotgun News, I don't think he actually believes that nonsense. Instead, he's using that as a "wink, wink,
nudge, nudge" allusion to the Federal Government, since openly saying "This is how you ambush a convey of american
soldiers to kill them" would be a bad thing to say post 9/11. Whereas, troops of a foreign invader...who could arrest him for
that? ;)
Besides, it's better for the government to let people think the militias and such are total loons than to risk doing something
that'd end up proving them to be otherwise, right? Ahhhh....
ossassin December 9th, 2003, 12:29 AM

Say what will, but the liberal American media indirectly controls the world. They threaten whatever president happens to be in
power, and he is their puppet (to a certain degree.) However, Bush was able to outsmart the media. He convinced everyone
that the war in the Middle East was a patriotic one and that all who opposed him were traitors. :)
I know that many europeans will disagree, but the US rules the world. It controls the UN, and even if the UN disapproves of the
US's actions, who will try to stop them? The US is capable of going to war against every other country in the world and winning.
It is the only country currently classified as a superpower. Quite frankly, that scares people. I think that this is one reason why
there is so much anti-american sentiment in the world today. (The other reasons have to do with America supporting Isreal
and interfering with other people's business.)
ChemHacker December 9th, 2003, 01:30 AM

I think that vulture hit the bullseye; money is what makes the world go 'round. To put it another way, economic gain is the
ONLY reason governments go to war. Oh sure, they'll sometimes cite religious reasons in a feeble attempt to mask their true
intent and muddy the waters, but in the end it is all about money. Free Iraq?!? Yea, right! How about freeing the American
people! The US government doesn't care about its own citizens, why should we believe that it cares about Iraqis?
As for the US being able to take on the entire world and winning, I seriously doubt that. And just because US polititians and
the media keep telling us that we are the only superpower doesn't make it true. If your country possesses a handful of nukes,
then you ARE a superpower. I seem to recall that Russia still has a large stockpile of nuclear weapons and an efficient delivery
system. China has quite a number of nukes themselves. They just lack an adequate delivery system, but this is changing
rapidly. The US is not the only superpower, and it is arrogant and dangerous to think so. Granted, we have the most
technologically advanced military in the world and the greatest concentration of firepower in the world. But we have a serious
manpower shortage, and it will only get worse if our government insists on keeping us in a state of perpetual war. I suspect at
some point the draft will be resurrected.
ronald December 9th, 2003, 09:14 AM

US(almost means the world) is controlled by the jews mainly. Saudi Arabs dont control a shit, US is quite friendly to them
because they give US oil. If there wouldnt be the oil what arabs own, who knows where israels borders would be. Now think on
it, who REALLY benefited from the invasion of Iraq? Israel. Israel will be getting cheap oil from a pipeline from iraq, there is no
more Saddam funding the militant organisation fighting against the occupation(Saddam payed money for the families of the
marters) and there is no threat to israel from those "missiles" and chem/bio weapons.
I connected the beginning of the "iraq-joke" with the event when Saddam stopped oil export for a month, to try to change
something is Palestine. This time it didnt made much difference in the oil market and the other arabs didnt go with the plan.
Next time, it might had been more effective and Bush made sure that there was no next time.
vulture December 9th, 2003, 09:40 AM

Say what will, but the liberal American media indirectly controls the world. They threaten whatever president happens to be in
power, and he is their puppet (to a certain degree.) However, Bush was able to outsmart the media. He convinced everyone
that the war in the Middle East was a patriotic one and that all who opposed him were traitors.
There we go again. Bush and the right wing fucked up but it's always the fault of someone else.
And WTF is a patriotic war? You seem to think that because it's patriotic it's a good war? What kind of argument is that? You're
being brainwashed yourself.
BTW, Hitler used the same tactic. War = good for our country, everybody who's against my politics is a traitor, oh and I need a
scapegoat for keeping the flock under control.
We all know what happened...:rolleyes:
I know that many europeans will disagree, but the US rules the world. It controls the UN, and even if the UN disapproves of the
US's actions, who will try to stop them? The US is capable of going to war against every other country in the world and winning.
It is the only country currently classified as a superpower. Quite frankly, that scares people. I think that this is one reason why
there is so much anti-american sentiment in the world today. (The other reasons have to do with America supporting Isreal
and interfering with other people's business.)
You only currently rule the world because politicians here don't have the balls to say fuck you when the US tries to use them
for another attempt at selfjustification. But like always, nobody wants to stick his neck out.
Your idea of warfare is flawed. Sure, the US could bomb&destroy most countries of the world, but keeping them under control?
Look what a FUBAR Iraq has become.
Oh right. The US cared about the Iraqi citizens. Uhuh. Then why was it Halliburton was already benefiting from its multibillion
dollar contract, while Iraqi citizens still didn't have tap water, electricity and gas/oil supply?
Oh and something else. To be a superpower, you gotta have WMDs. Why can the US have WMDs and not other countries?
Because the US has a democratic regime? Gimme a break. I wonder what the US would say if Belgium built a nuke. We have a
democratic government too, in case you didn't know.
Do you even know that Belgium is a part of Europe?

And there you have another point. The US wants to rule the world but doesn't have the faintest clue about geostrategical
situations in the world.
thrall December 9th, 2003, 03:55 PM

When I look at the history it makes me a bit sick.The groups(countries) got power times a lot for no reason other than
chance,at least not ability or worthyness.And the most standing example is US of A(unfortunately).Neatherland was the
economic superpower when french revolution broke out.the tiny country fell against grand army and the channel separating the
england from europe became the charm of luck and lo! England of all the countries became a superpower.from that day
onward england never let any other country rise as a naval power and kept on playing the divide and conqure in europe(in the
name of power balance,of course).It could do so because in absence of a naval power in continantal europe,the conflicts didn't
touch england. Meantime it enlarged it's colonial empire and became a superpower of the world.It's strange that history
repeats itself so exactly that in two world wars the US joined only about the end when the result was almost desided(one can
say it's not for second world war but then ,think yourself "why only after operation Barbarosa failed to capture Moscow or make
Russia capitulate?").Since US mainland remained untouched by the conflict it gained everything and lost nothing.Surprising na!
that the best war machine is in the hands of a country whose mainland has never been threaten in past 150-200 years(pearl
harber was an Japanese attempt to nutralize US forses in pacific so that it can easily take ilands of pacific and china) and the
country who has not fought a war on it's mainland for the same period.This is the way(luck) US become prosperous and not
through the efforts and abilities of it's people.germans were great but they fell.(IF someone from germany dosen't mind ,My
anlysis says that todays germans are mainly(of course not entirely) basterd of german women and invading army(russian and
american) since Hitler enlisted almost all of it's male population and at the end even veterans and childeren),I'm eager to
listen to critisism on this).
I can write 100 one to one corespondences between ancient Rome and Modern US.IN fact not only encient Rome but any other
oppressive empire(they all have same charactristics).AND I CAN SAY IT CLEARLY THAT "US ,AS ANY OTHER EMPIRE BEFORE IT'S
END OR DISINTEGRATION, HAS GONE INTO REGRESSION PHASE". This is the time when US is vulnerable to
blackmailing.Pakistan is doing so and so is "abdullah raghead"(Thanks NBK I liked this).If the muslim leadership has iota of
brain and they backoff a little bit from what they are upto now,I bet appeasment phase will sweep over.But "abdullah raghead"
will never understand this:) so it's cool.Now the people of US have sucked enough from the world and they want to enjoy it
peacefully.Threaten their peace and you can get anything.US needs just a good enemy and it can be compromised in a matter
of 2 decades.The army of US is Best but it's useful only if send it in the battle.
For instance any nuclear power tries to settle some old scores with some of it's neighbour and Uncle sam intervenes.One
threat of nuke on washington will be enough to keep US cool.After all why should US take the war to itself while it is not
threaten at the first place.:rolleyes: (of course it will be threaten but you know people,BTW lets see the result of coming
election and we'll see).
The post is getting tooo long and I'm feeling tired.
Jacks Complete December 9th, 2003, 08:28 PM

Vulture,
the only reason the USA hasn't invaded anywhere else (Belgium), is they like English people, and think we own Europe. They
never heard of Africa, so they didn't invade there yet... I'm just waiting till they hear about some little place that is north of
them, canada, and invade that on a whim.
Anyway, I was saying the other day:
How do you stop the American government?
You can't shame them, as they have no shame - otherwise they would never have gotten elected.
You can't fight them, as they will blow you up, or kidnap you indefinately, and blow the shit out of your country, and occupy it
for a while, regardless of if you are a democracy or not.
You can't run, since there is nowhere they can't see with satelittes and sonar sensors, etc.
You can't kill them, as they have masive firepower and air superiority.
You can't buy them off (at least not once they make the "war" public) as they cannot be seen to be weak, or they won't get re-
elected.
You can't even try to ignore them, as they will use the UN or NATO or some fat cheque to a charity to make life difficult for you
if you don't support them.
So what can you do?
Looked at like that, the actions of Tony Bliar can almost be explained, as well as expected.
What has been pissing me off today?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/central/12/07/afghan.strike/index.html
The shear arrogance. And the way they killed a load of kids and some guy, because he might be the terrorist suspect they
were looking for. On those grounds, everyone on roguesci could be killed by air-dropped guided munitions, without a care for
the friends, family, neighbours, etc. because we are all "possible terrorist susects".
Do we think this will get me on the same list as Eminem? Or do I have to say that we should nuke the eastern seaboard for
that priviledge? Or, more likely, I am already on that list, for being a possible "possible terrorist suspect" sympathiser...
Fuckers.
nbk2000 December 9th, 2003, 08:40 PM

To be a superpower is more than just having nukes. If that was the case, then India would be a superpower...but its not! :p
It takes several things.
One of which is military might. Not just NBC weapons, but conventional forces too, because destroying the enemies cities does
you no good if his army can invade your country and occupy it. What are you going to do, nuke your own cities to clear him
out? Pyhrric victory would be yours.
The other is economic power. The Soviets were militarily a superpower, but their economic basis wasn't worth shit, so they
couldn't compete with the US in developing their military technologies to keep up with us. Your military has to have both
quality and quantity. The sov's tried to outdo US quality with massive quantities, but they couldn't do that because their
economy couldn't support it. In the meantime, the US economy not only supported a huge military, but also a state-of-the-art
one that is (in some aspects) decades ahead of the nearest other rival powers (like china).
Why can the US have WMDs and not other countries?
It's not at all unreasonable for the king of the hill to make it as difficult as others to climb up to his level, since that's what
POWER is all about. The weak and feable always cry "It's not fair! Why can't (fill in what the have-nots want)".
This is the same line of liberal thinking that got us fags and women in the military, muds in the schools, foreigners
outbreeding the whites in their own homelands, welfare for lazy 'tards, and all the other touchy-feely crap that's slowly turning
the world into a toilet bowl full of brown shit.
Sorry, I was about to go off on another rant. :o
Anyways...life isn't fair, deal with it.
First law of power is to secure your own position by making it as difficult as possible for others to do what you did.
Assume for a moment that the Nazi's had developed the atomic bomb and the US never bothered trying because their
scientists said it wasn't possible. Do you think Hitler would have hesitated to vaporize moscow, london, and NY with nuclear
armed V2's? I don't think he would have either.
And, once having won the war, wouldn't he have nuked any country coming even close to developing similar weaponry? Yes, he
would have.
Eventually the Nazis would have developed such a monopoly on nuclear weaponry and the unstoppable means to deliver it that
they could have effectively ruled the world with no need for huge armies of occupation (though they'd still have them), since
you don't need soldiers to occupy sterile radioactive wastelands wiped clean of all sub-human life, do you?
That's the mistake the US has been making. We had the means, but not the will, to do what was needed to ensure American
domination of the globe. We wouldn't have to occupy baghdad if it was a glassy crater. Same for somalia, grenada, haiti, and
all these other third world shitholes.
I don't think the Forth Reich will make that mistake.
If a country was told to do something by the Reich, and they knew nuclear obliteration was forthcoming for failing to comply,
I'd think the news would be much more boring.
In todays' news, haiti was told to remove president Oooga Booga and replace him with the Reich appointed governet. Haitians
stormed the palace and hanged former president Oooga Booga before the Peace Keeper missile was to fired at the midnight
dead line.
In other news, the war between serbia and croatia was ended when 100 megatons of Aryan justice removed the former country
of Yugoslavia permanently from the map. Please remove the "Yugo" sticker from your political map and replace it with the
radiation logo.
Pax Superia rules peacefully over the rest of the world. Sleep well Arayans.
That's the other thing that makes a Superpower what it is...the will to use that power. Russia wasn't afraid to use it. Neither
were we. China could have been a superpower, but they're too hesitant and introverted, though that may change in the future
so we'd best cripple them NOW before their economy allows them to compete with us. Oh, and we need to sabotage their
space program so they never get the high ground. Perhaps an "accidental" collison with an old satellite as they're orbiting? ;)
Jacks Complete December 9th, 2003, 09:45 PM

I wrote this in a response to the "Penetrating thick skinned targets?" thread, but realised it would be better in here.
---
According to a link from Acidman's blog, the new estimate for deaths in Bagdad under Saddam is 61,000, from a poll. Since
the US Army won't tell us the death rate for Iraqis under the Bush regime, we have to go with these silly polls, which claim
about 70-100 a day are dying. A more real figure might be that there were 470 gunshot deaths one month, which Rumsfeld
stated was, per head, lower than Washington d.c. Given that Saddam was in power for years, since 1979, that's over 300
months.
Do the maths: 61000/300 is just 200 deaths a month, under this amazingly brutal dictator.
Two things:
The US regime is killing 470 a month, more than double what Saddam did in Bagdad.
The death rate in Washington, d.c. is substatially higher.
So where should GWB 'make safe' next?
vulture December 10th, 2003, 01:23 PM

Bush showed up in Iraq on Thanksgiving. Now I guess there was something wrong with the whitehouse press service and the
plane, because the whitehouse spokesman didn't announce the visit and the plane flew without lights.
Odd thing if you're visiting a country that just has been liberated from all enemy combatants, no?
I mean, as the great liberator, you should arrive with a display of fireworks and be carrying the fat turkey, no?
The one who figures out the double meaning of that last sentence get's a free dubya poster.
thrall December 11th, 2003, 08:29 AM

Ha! What you know about India? I'm writing about it because of course I'm from India.This is a country(the only one) that has
tolerated 1000 years of slavery and apparently people here has lost all of their pure blood in the process of resistance. The
17% of Muslim minority has taken entire democracy at hostage(appeasement,more appeasement).And they multiply like rats
as well(8% of total population to 17% of total population within 50 years).The point is that INDIA doesn't have Nuke
weapons.Have you ever heard India has ** numbers of Nukes? No, because India doesn't have any.All the statements of
government and scientists are about "india has the capability of making ** Nukes per year".Bullshit that capability we had
even in stane age.Uranium(or plutonium in this case) was in the ground and so as all the metals.
Anyway the point is that there is something called system.It can be national or international whatever.And one property(only
one) that system has is the drive for survival,maintaining the status quo.All the people who tried for "new order" are
villains.This is very much publisised in cartoons that I've watched(bad reference but thats what is being shown to children to
MOULD their minds.The worst villain is the one who wants "new order".)Whatever happens status quo must be maintained.that
is the one principal that system follows and no other(like fairness,justice,consistancy all that the system say it defends).A
human syatem is the rigidity of society formalizes.Now this the reasom that USA is super power and it will remain for the time
being till someone with capability will be after it's fall for the sake of it because no one I repeat no one will ever gain enything
from it.If a war ensues it will cost both sides dearly.But again so was true for british empire.
Let me state one thing more off the topic but relevent.The exploitation is changing the forms but it remains and survives far
as the history of world is conserned till now.In encient times there was downright slavery(literally) then it became less
profitable and there emerged a new form.Colonization.Enslave a country's political and econimic system and enslave the
population indirectly.The people will have their own rulers but those rulers will be your slave for all practical purposes.That was
cool and so that survived for long and it wouldn't have ended if not there were GOOD world wars that weaken and shatterred
the colonial empires.
And now comes another form of slavery.Don't control the politics as well,just suck the economy of the country and that too
indirectly.The democratic system is good for this reason since entire governments can be bought.After all you are not briebing
them to give their country to you,all you pay them for is just to change the stand of government on some issue that is not
directly influencing people(like foriegn policy or some economic policy).Meanwhile cry in the name of equality so the fool
population of the wreched country willl not even realize who is WHO.And even if they feel cheated their wreth willl be directed
the Democratic leader who betrayed them only to be replaced by another(who will not behave otherwise BTW).If people
become bloodthirty them these currupt leaders can always get political asylum in the countries that they did the
FAVOR.Switzerland is one of the richest countries,and how BTW? they made the crime legal.you can plunder or rob someone
and put the money in the wreched little country and when the victim ask for money they won't even tell him(he is the country)
how much they have got.I don't understand the very basis of privacy.What one hides.Only when it's wrong but thats the whole
of a different point altogether.
Don't you think why democracies are preferred by US of A?They are by and by enslaving the world economically and
culturlly.lets see how long does that last.
And BTW compromising US forces is not that big a job if some country is really after it.Far as i see they are becoming more
and more dependent GPS(missiles and now even guided bombs.)Bring down the GPS.Cut the optical cabels that come through
pacific and atlantic.And jam all the radio channels that they use and alll of the US forces that are OUTSIDE of the country will
be isolated pockets with no clue whats going on.Don't you think it's good time to.............
Or make submariens that can walk under the SAND.fully automatic and nuclear of course.guide them with an optical fiber
control with the base of the fiber 100's of kilometers far from it.take your time.under 2-50 feet of sand in ocean floor close in
US coast in 5-10 years(some feet per day since thats the maximum possible far as my calculation goes.)now you have nuke
bombs right under the USA's coasts.no anti missiles no defence.Now do what you want to and if Big brother intervene,hah!
nuke bomb are not to be used you know.
Anath December 11th, 2003, 09:22 AM

Yikes, Can I buy you a paragraph or two?
Shooting down the GPS constellation in high orbit (around 21000kms ASL) is no mean feat, you would be better served using
the large boosters to deliver nuclear warheads, as taking out a GPS satellite would be considered an overt Act of War anyway.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that a U.S task force or Carrier Battle Group is incapable of looking after itself if cut off
from CONUS. jamming communications is also something that is much easier said, than done. The U.S alphabet agencies
can't even succesfully stop 'Numbers Stations" from Cuba etc, with ultra high power bubble jammers and the like. Good luck
defeating a directed high power digital satellite comm or ELF system.
"Or make submariens that can walk under the SAND", hell, why not make Giant Steam-Driven robotic spiders that shoot
fireballs, or Battlemechs, or breed Dune style Sandworms... It's time to stop pulling ideas out of your arse & stop blaming the
United States for your own shitty predicament.
streety December 11th, 2003, 09:45 AM

"alll of the US forces that are OUTSIDE of the country will be isolated pockets"
With more fire power in those individual pockets than most coutries have in their entire arsenals. Wow, that would make a big
difference! That is, of course, assuming it was even possible.
As for shipping nukes into the continental US why tunnel under the ocean when it would be far easier just to load your nuke
into a container on a container ship (obviously) and sail it to the US. With the element of surprise it would easily get in.
thrall December 11th, 2003, 11:57 AM
BTW I've made a small model of such submarine(not submarine a small machine 8"*5"*5" roughly) that did walk under
sand(deep less than a sentimeter under sand and it stucked after a while).The point is that this CAN be done.I'm not talking
about something that can't be built.(If only I had a digicam I'd have posted a picture).BTW making a spider robot is most in
efficient thing to make considering the the task(whatever it may be) can always be done using simpler machanisms.Plus the
robotics till the date is not enough developed to make a GOOD working mechanism of this kind(considering the computational
complexity and errors in sensors and actuators).What I made was covered with polyhene and now I'm trying with fiberglass
cover but glassfiber is easy to get not the resin and catalyst that is used to solidify resin and make the mold.Though I'm not
handeling the comlex control and it just walks straight and get stuck when it gets deeper.But trust me given reourses THIS
CAN be done.scale is dependent on resourses of course.BTW in some other thread there was a talk about bullet proof small
robot I suggest fiberglass shield cause if thick enough it CAN stop a bullet.Moreover I'm not talking about some terrorist group
doing these things but a COUNTRY.
EDIT: apparently people are interested in plannings rather then theory ,justifications and philosophy but thats more like it;)
10fingers December 12th, 2003, 03:48 PM

I think there is already a new world order. It's called the Global Economy. Whatever nation can make and sell the most goods
and services has the power.
Right now it looks like China and the Pacific Rim nations are winning because they have abundant and cheap labor.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Exploding Jawbreaker
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Found this on Daily Rotten News (http://http://www.rotten.com/news/) .
Jawbreaker Candy Explodes, Burns Fla. Girl's Face (http://www.local6.com/news/2491417/detail.html)
"I can't say if it's a product defect or if it's tampering at this point in time," Bradford County sheriff's Lt. Kenneth Hinds told WJXT-TV. There was also some speculation that the
candy was left in the sun, the liquid inside was boiling or had some chemical reaction.
B.S. The pictures of this kids face and the nature of a jawbreaker candy make
that very unlikely. Some asshole loaded a piece of candy with a primary and
put it back in the bin, at a guess.
I know some of you all had discussed doing similar things to some people who
beat down a board member. But this is apparently random. If some dumbass
k3wI did this, I hope he gets some instant karma next time he mixes.

Considering how the candy is still mostly intact (going by picture), I'd think it a steam explosion. The burns are consistant with a steam scald, not an explosion.
If it was an explosion powerful enough to burn her face that badly, it'd have removed her hand as well.
Besides, who cares? It's a niglet, so it couldn't have happened to a nicer person. Hopefully the scarring will make her too repulsive to her fellow apes for her to breed. :)
Though it does raise an interesting question of how one would go about making exploding (literal) jawbreakers.
Cast a ball out of nipolit with a small hole which is filled with a primary and topped with a small piece of sodium. Coat with a colorful candy shell, and cellophane wrap, prior to
emplacement where ankle-biters congregate. Brat unwraps, starts sucking, shell dissolves, sodium ignites, and BOOM...one less brat in the world!
Random is best. Makes it near impossible to trace back, since the motive is simple terror, rather than any kind of tangible objective.

I've made candy. And I've got a boiler operators license.
I've got some sense of how both sugar and steam behave-
I don't know what jawbreakers are made out of in GA, but

up here they're hard candy. Dry hard candy. So I don't
understand how it would be harboring water for a steam
explosion in the first place.
Any container of superheated water ready to flash to steam

and make an explosion is going to be hot. Even a good
insulator such as porcelain, filled with a saturated and super
heated sugar syrup would be too hot to hold in your hand,
especially if the heat had been applied from the OUTSIDE.
So how was this kid holding something that hot? Did her
mom MICROWAVE it and give it to her?!
Maybe it WASN'T a detonating compound, I agree that

the piece shown was kind of big. (And what kind of explosive
investigator leaves that big a piece of evidence lying at the
scene, anyhow?!)
(Kid drops jawbreaker on ground. Mom knows that heat will

sterilize those bad old germs! Mom microwaves jawbreaker...
Hands it back to kiddy. Blam!!!)
A-BOMB September 18th, 2003, 09:44 AM

They will probably try to ban jarbreakers now, I got a better idea lets ban niggers! I mean there the only species of Ape that is that stupid I mean my dog has more brains than
all of them combined. I bet it was them putting it in the microwave(bet they'll try to ban those too, too much fun) Or it could of been tampering if some one injected a liquid
that boils at or just above room temp(70*ish) then when put in the mouth/hand/left in the sun(98.6*ish) the liquid boils and boom. :D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > well well well :D
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Mick S e p t e m b e r 1 8th, 2003, 07:08 PM

good to see the place is still running...its been a while since i wa s last he re.
infact its bee n exactly a year +2 days :) - and strangely enough, the last post i m ade (HF synth in battlefield chem ) is still up
near the top of the page...*spooky* :D
figured i'd pop in a say hello to everyo ne...
so, hello :P
forum looks good too...very different from what i last re m e m ber..howeve r, its good to see that altho the forum h a s c h a n g e d ,
NBK is still a big 'ole nazi, HED'ing every kewl in sight :D
chemwarrior S e p t e m b e r 1 8th, 2003, 09:23 PM

W ow, its great to see you again Mick. W elcome back:)
Are you planning on staying with us for a while?

dunno...i've lost a fair bit of interest in explosives over the past year.
well, its not that i'm not intere sted, its just a lack of time to put the interest to go o d u s e .
it also got a bit spooky for a while, police were paying particular attention to m e , a n d a f e w p e o p l e a r o u n d m e ( f o r r e a s o n s
other then explosives).
a couple of times things were said by the police, and va rious other people, that were not comm only known things, a nd it kind
o f d a w n e d o n m e t h a t s o m eone was talking. so i basicly just distanced m yself from everyone, including the forum .
i'll be around...
green beret S e p t e m b e r 2 0th, 2003, 06:36 AM

Hi Mick, good to see you back , hopefully the cops stop hassling you. See you round.:)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Disk drive nightmare
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Alright, I have a Memorex DVD+RW/+R Internal Rewriteable drive. The damn thing is in the process of being used as the data drive for Encase to run... and now that the disk
is full, I cannt get the darn thing to eject the disk:( And the problem is, Encase is just about done, only needs one, maybe two more dvds to be inserted and filled to complete
it... so I cannt turn the comp off like I have other times to retrieve the disk... As well as I dropped 75 dollars on DVDs for Encase to write to.. and sadly, I purchased non-
rewritables:( so I dont have the option of restarting encase after turning the computer off and extracting the disk, mainly because I dont have that sort of money to go spend
on more DVDs... So what do I do? How can I get the drive open without harming it, and without shutting off the computer?? I cannt stop Encase, the files I lost are too
important and MUST be retrieved, so I have to keep power to the computer till its done:(
Please, ANY advice would be appreciated and is MUCH needed....

Every drive I've ever seen has a tiny hole in the front that you can use to manually eject the disc with. It might be very tiny, but it is there. Once you find it, you'll need to find
a stiff piece of wire or a very long and thin sewing needle to poke into the hole to cause the drive tray to unlatch. From there, just pull it open slowly and you're set. :)

Thanks NBK, but I allready tried that... I DID recover the disk, however, the drive itself is being faulty. Ive inserted a new disk, but it claims the disk has the same exact files
as the previous one. Its really grating on my nerves (then again, 29 hours without sleep will do that to most anyone.... lol) Anyways, I think I may have found a program that
will allow me to recover all my missing files.. at least I hope so. The trial version will only allow up to 200kb, so Im hoping that most, if not all, the files will be recoverd. I
know several of them wont be, but I may be able to afford the cost of getting the full version of this program... at least I sure as heck hope so.
http://www.x-ways.net/davory/index-m.html
Thats the site. Despite its rather, umm, lame, appearance, that particular program works wonders. I tried one of the other ones on there, I believe the Hex something or other,
but it was too complicated for me to try to figure out.. I might try it again after I have a few hours sleep..
mmmm, sleep..... I crave sleep.....

It would help to know exactly what the problem was that required you to use Encase in the first place.
Corrupt Master Boot Record? Partitions not registering? There may be other ways to save the data. Speaking of which, what is it that you've got that requires so much
retrieving? Is it the drive with the Forum FTP files that Ctrl_C sent you?

Ctrl_C hasnt, at least not yet anyway, sent anyone the drive itself.
As to what I lost, I lost a good bit of the explosives section of the FTP. I havent got the faintlest clue how, but sense Ive been having some troulbes with a persisten hacker, i
can see how::rolleyes: I also lost over 20gigs worth of personal information (and no, not porn, lol)
The resason for using Encase is it was the only program I knew of that could retrieve deleted files. I used what I thought was the full copy from the FTP, but come to find out
its only a part of it.
Ehh, anyways, I should be able to retrieve the lost files. I may have to come up with a crack/ serial for the program though. So far, this thing has recovered files from YEARS
ago that I thoujght had been securely erased (3 wipe pass for minor things, then a 36pass used periodically, for the whole drive)
NOTE- All the FTP files are still intact, minus the above mentinoed ones. I also have all the logins and such still, completely intact.
jelly September 19th, 2003, 11:11 AM

The Encase program on the ftp is complete and works very well.
But it has been primarily developed for finding evidences, not for undeleting files.
The "undelete" part of the "Norton Utilities" is still one of the best and most reliable
undelete programs. If you have a "Norton Emergency/Rescue floppy disk", try it out.
FrankRizzo September 20th, 2003, 02:41 AM

chemwarrior: I've got a copy of Winternals Filerestore. If you want it, I'll post it to an x-mail acct or something.
EDIT:If you have USENET access, go to "alt.binaries.cathybarry" There's a copy of Winternals ERD commander posted there.

I dont have access to USENET unfortuanately, so if you could up it to somewhere on the web and send me and e-mail when its done, it would be greatly appreciated. My e-
mail is- chemwarrior136@ziplip.com
Thanks in advance!

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Federal Agents,We Have a
Warrant,Open Up!
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If you choose to pursue this hobby at any level,its only a matter of time before you attract some kind of attention.I bet there
is a fed who's job it is just to check this board and others like it.
Accidents happen,slip ups made,the best laid plans of mice and men,yadda,yadda,yadda
arrogance,ego are contributing factors-it cant happen to me,I'm too smart.
plan for failure-but to what extreme-how far underground can you go and still pursue your interests?
I've been busted before when I was younger but not by Feds.Cops at the local level and even the state level are
overworked,underpaid,work on tips(info not $)and perform an invaluable service to the community.These guys are not my
chief concern.However in these strange days we currently live in,it seems to me it if you get put on one watch list you get put
on them all.
First things first,know your neighborhood.who lives where and who drives what.I think the first thing the man thinks of now a
days are drugs.In my general area there have been several clandestine drug labs busted recently.IIRC meth labs have a
strong destinctive smell,local cops might not knock on your door.They will visit and check things out without your knowlege.I
had this happen when I used to grow tomatoes,I never knew till there was a full blown investigation.This does not mean
entering your place without your knowlege as this is illegal.This is everything but.Poking around your yard(if you leave your
gate open),looking over your fence to see whats in plain view or going through your trash.If they dont find anything,the
investigation might end there,but dont count on it.Cops will give you enough rope to hang yourself with.
The first thing I did when I got paranoid was to burn everything potentially incriminating.Second I vary my trips home as much
as possible.I'd rather turn myself in to my lawyer than be led off in handcuffs.This also gives time to get your story straight.
NBK has a great treastise on cacheing in his book,it wont be discussed here.I do this as much as is feasable.
Get everything even remotely incriminating out of your place,if the cops go to the trouble of raiding your place they will try to
hang you on anything.
Strange but true stuff the cops seized while investigating me(two cases,two states):a fire helmet,high times,hustler,a
compound bow,a crossbow,a growlight(obviously not used w/no bulb),various pipes,a bong.I got everything back but the
firehelmet and pipes/bong.Even the growlight.I was never charged with the parapanelia as it didnt have anything to do with the
investigation.Murder if you need to know.
Feds I have no dealings with,I know not to talk to them but to go through my lawyer.Truth be told they scare me.These guys
are college graduates,very smart, probably with strong chem backgrounds if they are investigating you.You better have your
story straight.Also every person I know that did get in trouble,did so because they could'nt keep their mouths shut.Consider
also what your neighbors would say,if feds do get involved they will most certainley canvas you neighborhood for info.Time to
tone down the whole mad scientist/bomber thing,huh?
It also seems to me that diskscrubbers/diskwipes are no good at all,If your going to store info on electronic media a
detachable hard drive is the way to go.It all depends on how bad the feds want you,which depends on how much you have to
lose and what you have to offer.
because these guys do have limited resources and bigger fish to fry, if you do wind up on their radar expect to stay there for
6months to one year depending on how you come off and their workload.From the time I bumped into a narc to the time they
kicked in my door at 4am was about 8months.Just long enough to think the heat was off,they still got nothing at the
raid.Thats another good point too,they like to raid you in the middle of the night or early in the morning-something to think
about.Undercovers have a tendency to stick out,cant put my finger on it.If things dont "seem" right they probably arnt.Back in
my grateful dead days you could spot em pretty easy,they just didnt belong.I know this isnt helpful,go with your instinct.If it
doesnt feel right it aint,I cant stress that enough.
I get the feeling this is too long-I'm sure others have plenty to add

Nice little write up, though you should have put some more thought into wording.
Good advice in there though. Im sorry I dont have much to add to it, though that anyone with incriminating things that arent
needed daily, SHOULD cache them. As you said, NBKs PDF has good information on how to do so.

Hmmm....where to start?
First things first,know your neighborhood, who lives where and who drives what.
RTPB 62. Know the area around your house like the back of your hand.
Poking around your yard(if you leave your gate open),looking over your fence to see whats in plain view or going through your
trash.
RTPB 53. Buy video cameras and hide them outside your home so if anyone tries sneak up on you, you'll see them coming.
Even 5 seconds warning can give you time to destroy evidence or get your gun.
The first thing I did when I got paranoid was to burn everything potentially incriminating.
RTPB none specific, but the whole RTPB is about not leaving any trace of evidence to be used against you. ;)
NBK has a great treastise on cacheing in his book, it wont be discussed here.I do this as much as is feasable.
RTPB 58. If it's illegal, and you don't need immediate access to it, bury it. You can dig it up when you need it.
Also every person I know that did get in trouble,did so because they could'nt keep their mouths shut.Consider also what your
neighbors would say,if feds do get involved they will most certainley canvas you neighborhood for info.Time to tone down the
whole mad scientist/bomber thing,huh?
RTPB 1. T NO Trust No One!
RTPB 20. When on trial, you'll never regret having kept your mouth shut when you were arrested.
RTPB Supreme Rule. ...Not even your neighbors should know that you are their neighbor...Remember, neighbors = problems.
It also seems to me that diskscrubbers/diskwipes are no good at all,If your going to store info on electronic media a
detachable hard drive is the way to go.
RTPB 25. Keep ledgers and other financial records encrypted using PGP on a computer. Store the key in the self-destruct safe,
and a PGP encrypted backup copy of the key buried in a public place you have 24 hour access to, like a park.
It all depends on how bad the feds want you,which depends on how much you have to lose and what you have to offer.
RTPB 19. Those who have the most to lose by being silent are the most likely to snitch.
6. The higher you are, the further you'll fall.
Because these guys do have limited resources and bigger fish to fry, if you do wind up on their radar expect to stay there for
6months to one year depending on how you come off and their workload.From the time I bumped into a narc to the time they
kicked in my door at 4am was about 8months.Just long enough to think the heat was off,they still got nothing at the raid.
RTPB 2. C. Y. A. Cover Your Ass (at all times)!
Thats another good point too,they like to raid you in the middle of the night or early in the morning-something to think about.
RTPB 53. Buy video cameras and hide them outside your home so if anyone tries sneak up on you, you'll see them coming.
Even 5 seconds warning can give you time to destroy evidence or get your gun.
Undercovers have a tendency to stick out,cant put my finger on it.If things dont "seem" right they probably arnt.Back in my
grateful dead days you could spot em pretty easy,they just didnt belong.I know this isnt helpful,go with your instinct.If it
doesnt feel right it aint,I cant stress that enough.
RTPB 13. Listen to your instincts. If you feel someone is lying, you're being set up, or you're going to get busted, you're
probably right.
Everythings already covered by the RTPBs. 'Nuff said. :)
BTW, The PDF doesn't have the RTPB's included in it, I don't think.

The copy I have doesnt, but I think that would be a pretty good addition to it. Also, if you ever decided to make a hard copy
of it, that would make for an excellent front page(s).

I've heard other forum member mention they were feeling heat from time to time.Currently I've got a wicked case of
paranoia,so I thought it would make for good discussion.I cant wait to get the full NBK.PDF. lots of useful info there.
Interesting note,I just read today about how cops have many tools for breaking down doors yet are ill equipped to handle
electric fencing.This can be bought cheap at farm supplies sold as hot wire.feels like bees are stinging you(I know from first
hand)
There was alot I left out due to size plus I didnt want rehash stuff I already talked about.I just was thinking someone might
kick out some good ideas we didnt talk about.I wonder about self destructing safe too,using explosives in the commision of a
crime...
ps nbk in your pdf, about taking out bears in the air,wouldnt it be cheaper to use a barret .50?
TreverSlyFox September 19th, 2003, 09:53 PM

In at least part of this I have some experiance. Your right, if you stay in this activity long enough you'll attract attention
sooner or later. You can bet your life that this board is being watched and archived by at least the Feds. I know for a fact that
another board is and a post was used "verbatim" at a Federal sentencing hearing in the past 90 days. The post wasn't even
made by the poor smuck being sentenced but by his daughter and it cost him some more time. If you post here, your on a
list somewhere and they know who you are, where you live and most likely more than you know about yourself.
I can't stress this enough, if your questioned by LEOs, SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Say nothing more than your name and "I want a
lawyer" PERIOD! You have no idea how many cases are made with the information from an interview. I can't count how many
cases I made because the smuck didn't keep his mouth shut. ANY information at all tells me something, it may confirm
something I already know or suspect. It may even be something I've not even thought of, but no mater what it is I can check
it and most times I'll find out if it's a lie and then you've really got my undivided attention. If your lawyer isn't sitting next to
you say NOTHING!
As far as the feds go, they'er just people like everyone else. Sure they have collage degrees but that doesn't make them
Gods. There are good and bad ones, some couldn't find their butt with both hands and a map. I've seen BATF agents trying to
unload a Makarov and looking for the mag release on the side of the grip (It's on the bottom of the grip) and give up in
frustration. You'ed think BATF agents would know weapons and explosives but it isn't always true nor is it true of other LEOs.
Their expertise is in investigation not tech they have experts for that.
LEOs may have you on their radar and they may be ready for that early morning no-knock raid. But they might kick in your
neighbor's door instead of yours, it does happen and more and more frequently. The warrant may not be right or a hundred
other things, just a mis-spelled name or wrong address can kick out any evidence they find (or bring with them).
Bottom line, don't help them make their case against you. Life is tough. Life is tougher if your stupid.
megalomania September 19th, 2003, 11:18 PM

I wrote this a few months ago, I haven't finished it yet, but I think it applies here :)
Guidelines to avoid persecution if you have a lab
There is a war on drugs going on out there, and the police don t care who you are, as long as you have any chemical or bit of
labware you are guilty in their eyes. The sheeple have been so incensed to panic by the police Gestapo that any scientific
h o b b yist will be perceive d as little more than a criminal for the sheer possibility you m ight be a meth cook out to poison
children.
Every chemical is used in making meth, every type of lab equipment is used to make meth. The Gestapo fears everything you
could use in your independent scientific research. You cannot escape the stigma of being a meth cook, you must protect
yourself as best you can.
There are certain types of activity they look for be fore calling in the swat team. I have written these guidelines to help you
avoid having your skull crushed by the jackbooted thugs. It will take years, if ever, for them to give back your lab
equipment, why risk h avin g it stolen to begin with ? They don t care if you don t make drugs, they don t care if you r innocent,
they just want to smash, kill and destroy as many lives as possible. Just say no to the war on science!
Say nothing to no one about having a lab. Word of mouth travels fast, if you mention you have a lab it is guaranteed they will
tell someone. Those who know you have a lab will always assume the worst: you make drugs or bombs. One must carefully
explain to select people the nature of your scientific research so they do not jump to conclusions. Build a relationship with
friends and neighbors so they know you are the intelligent experimenter next door, not a Jr Al Qaeda wannabe. If you do not
know your neighbors it would be best to never reveal your lab, they will call the police. Remember, the ignorant masses have
been brainwashed to consider all science as drug manufacturing or terrorism. Do not allow ignorance to destroy your hobby.
Avoid so-called suspicious activity. The government publishes propaganda for ignorant citizens about what to look for in a
drug lab. This suspicious activity is what the nos y neighbor live s for. Such activity includes having people over late at night,
and blacking out your windows so people cannot see inside. Indeed we live in a police state when our supposed freedom to
congregate at any time we choose and to protect our privacy is considered suspicious. Nevertheless, avoid skulking around at
night or covering up your lab if at all possible. Curtains on the windows are recommended, these are less suspicious.
Conceal all your trash thoroughly. As an independent experimenter you will need consumer chemicals, but since all chemicals
are considered suspicious you must not let them be seen. A container as simple as an empty jug of antifreeze, or something
as commonplace as a coffee filter is considered suspicious according to government propaganda. All jugs, bottles, vials, and
containers of any kind that may have contained chemicals must be wrapped in garbage bags and securely tied. The trash
should be placed in the bag away from prying eyes and securely wrapped such as to show no clue as to the contents of your
trash. One may go as far as dumping smelly garbage such as food scraps to discourage pesky dumpster divers (they are out
there) from poking through your trash. Try wrapping newspaper around the containers to foil casual searching or from being
seen should accidental spillage occur, and wrap bags tightly to discourage them from being opened.
Allow no chemicals or equipment to be seen entering your home or lab. Just as it is important to protect your garbage, it is
even more important to never let the brainwashed do-gooder see what enters you home or lab. All chemicals or equipment
should be boxed, bagged, or otherwise obfuscated to prevent it from being seen. Bringing in a box can be considered
suspicious (only terrorists use boxes). Make it seem like you are bringing in groceries or other bagged goods from the store.
If at all possible bring stuff in at nigh t, but do nt be bringing in things all the time, that is suspicious. Human curiosity at bags
and boxes is a natural instinct, but far worse is the assumption at what a bottle of chemicals will be used for.
Avoid unusual odors
Avoid chemical purchases
Avoid haphazardly dumping chemical waste.

If my posts earlier seem out of sorts,I'm not feeling well today,plus my old lady was bitchen in my ear(too much time on the
pc)It seems to me State and local cops count on you to incriminate yourself but feds will go after you with more vigor.This is
what were dealing with now, I assume the DEA would get wind of you first(ListII) and your name will get passed around from
there.
Also with the cacheing I'll bury anything the cops could potentially use against me,legal or not ie 1500 rnds exotic
ammunition,important precursurs etc
by the by Trevorslyfox are you a member of the constabulary?You sound it

There's all kinds of electric fencing. I've had the ag. type that'd shock you pretty good, but if you grab it hard, then it doesn't
hurt. It was great fun watching cats hop up on the fence and come flying off with fur a flying! :)
The other kind I've seen was a lethal electric fence at several of the prisons I was in. That's a whole different ballgame there.
I saw it happen a few times that a bird would land on one of the wires (not the top one) and be turned into charcoal in a flash
of blue crackling light. :eek:
These fences aren't constantly powered. Instead, there's a low voltage pulse sent through about 16 times per second, rotating
through the prisons perimeter. This is more than fast enough to catch you, no matter how quick you are, and once it does it
kicks in the juice. That's several hundred amps at a 2,000 volts, same as the electric chair.
So far as I know, no ones ever been killed by it (except guards checking the wire! :D), likely 'cause no one wants to be the
first. ;)
While this may be bad for prison escape attempts, it can also be a good thing. Since they installed the fences, there's no
guards in the towers watching the perimeter any longer. This was helpful in an escape from a prison in georgia, where the
inmates used brooms to lift the wire up high enough to crawl under it, and there were no guards around to see them. :p
If you're planning on dealing with piggies, that's the kind of fence you need, because the voltage will reach out and fry
anything within 6" of the wire, no contact needed.
The ag fence charger was unable to penetrate even a butyl rubber glove.
As for using a barrett on a helicopter...
First, you'd have to hit a moving target. This may or may not be easy to do, depending on range/time of day-night, etc.
Second, you have to obtain one of these rifles. Legally, that'd be about $7,000. :eek: If it cost you $50 per line-throwing
mortar, that'd be 140 mortars and 140 chances that the copter is going down, compared to 5 or 10 using the .50. Remember,
plenty of helicopters have been shot, but very few go down, and this is in combat zones with HMG and AAA (think vietnam).
However, pretty much any plane/helicopter that's hit a powerline or trolley cable has gone down. :D Something about wings
being sheared off and rotors stopping does that to them. ;)
Also, though I've read about it and don't know if it's being done yet, I've heard of gun manufacturers test firing their weapons
and sending the fired rounds (bullet and casing) to the FBI so it can be entered into their database before the gun is ever
sold. This way, if it's used in a crime, the info is already in the database so they can start tracing your ass down from the get
go.
Most feds are specialists. The guy tracking you down may not know jack-shit about explosives/drugs/etc, and the lab geek
who does couldn't find his ass with a map and both hands. There's too much for them to know for them to know it all.
Anyways, there's been plenty of anti-piggy raid tactics discussed in other threads before, UTFSE to find them.
As for the RTPB, I've contemplated making the DVD centered around them, with the various articles popping up when you click
on one of the RTPBs. But that's too restrictive, as there are things I wish to write about that aren't RTPB related.
TreverSlyFox September 22nd, 2003, 04:02 AM

wrench352 asked:
"by the by Trevorslyfox are you a member of the constabulary?You sound it"
I'm a retired LEO/FFEMT.
wrench352 September 22nd, 2003, 11:50 AM

Trevorslyfox,anything to add about investigations/timelines,do you think I'm being accurate ie 6-8mnths from initial
discovery.better said, your hot,investigated,found clean,how long should you still consider yourself hot?
NBK, how accurate do you think this statement is:

If you post here, your on a list somewhere and they know who you are, where you live and most likely more than you know
about yourself.
by the way I consider myself a patriot from a longline of patriots,and I have no political affiliations whatsoever.I love my
country.God bless George Bush.
Bert September 22nd, 2003, 02:02 PM

Hmm. I've been reading this board for less than a month and
have seen 2 posters (TreverSlyFox, cameroneod)
who claim flat out to be current or ex
LEO or EOD- Including one who says he's here for work.
If true, some of you all need to seriously consider the

format of your postings.
I'm in the fortunate position of working under federal

and state licenses with what I do. Most of you don't have
that luxury. I'd never post a photo or description of an
activity I wasn't licensed, permitted and insured for.
(Of course, I've never done anything illegal either)
OK, TreverSlyFox, cameroneod- What do YOU think?

Hey, any other LEO's, EOD's, federal agents or
holders of ATFE type 20 or 50 permits out there?
Please feel free to chime in-

I would feel confident in stating that at least one FBI agent reads us on a regular basis. :)
That's what you get when you rise above the usual pond scum that consistutes the "bombz" scene. :D
wrench352 September 23rd, 2003, 08:14 AM

I pretty much assumed that,I even figure its an intern or a "Three days of the Condor" type researcher.Just wonder about the
vigor with which they would pursue our identities,not that I have anything to worry about.
megalomania September 23rd, 2003, 04:38 PM

Taking a practical look at the situation, we at The Forum are not exactly public enemy number 1. They may discourage our
activities, but really we are a bunch of enthusiasts who enjoy making things go bang in a safe and responsible manner. The
government does not have the manpower or the resources to worry about every man with a firecracker.
Are they watching? Hell yes, just in case somebody goes bad. I would think it very unprofessional of federal agents to not
bother monitoring the small handful of pyro sites out there. There aren t that many really, so why not kee p one eye on them.
They are at least aware of our existence I am sure, if you search for anything explosive related we will pop up on the search
engines at some point.
I have never advertised The Forum in any way, and now we have nearly 4000 members. If 4000 people can find us, why
can t one of them be a fed? If they are smart they use The Forum as a resource to gauge the s c e n e as it were. They likely
use us as a yardstick to gauge available sources of information. Lets face it, if there is an ebook or website about explosives
out there, somebody here will post about it.
Does that mean we as a community have to worry? No, as long as we maintain the status quo of enthusiasts they will tolerate
our existence. And, of course, as long as the First Amendment continues to offer our community protection.
When that RTC fella blew up the shopping mall, how was it hundreds of people were able to connect us to him in a matter of
hours? He only made a few posts here, but that was enough to encourage all the lookey loos to swamp the board. I can tell
you who wa s first amo ng them On a s ide no te, I wonder if the Fin nish authorities are s till loo king into sh utting sites like ours
(probably just ours) down.
I would say the true test of The Forum s mettle will come IF (I s ay if, NOT when) s ome regular here happens to deton ate a
device and kills a large number of people. Will this change anything? Will I have to alter my principals just because some
demented person committed an evil act? I would hope the answer is no. I have always been aware of the possibility that
someone may use our knowledge in a dangerous way, but you could say that about anything. To deny the existence of The
Forum, or any type of knowledge for that matter, because of what someone might do is wrong.
My principles may be unshaken, but we would not be out of the woods yet. One of our members would have violated the
sta tus qu o, going from enthus iast to outright terrorist. That pu ts us to the top of the list of things the governmen t does nt
like. That means resources will be granted, and manpower allocated against us. Are we suddenly wrong just because of one
event? No, our rights to discuss what we do will still remain, what will have changed is opinion. Namely opinion of what to do
with sites like ours. The feds will try to smear us, they will fight dirty, because they are one sided. As far as they are
concerned our freedoms are just impediments to bringing criminal charges against the whole world. They are one sided in
that they want to de stroy anything th ey don t like, freedom be damned.
They will try to bring criminal charges against the staff, saying we knew about the event and helped. They will bring charges
against a nyone who responde d to the person s m e s s ages saying you facilitated in a te rrorist act. In the end the ch arges will
come to naught! We discuss theoretical issues legally, as long as the bomber never actually states he is going to blow
something up, we have no way of knowing, and thus are not going to be criminally liable for conspiracy. They will try anyway
just to look like they are d oing someth ing. Remember, you d o n t have to actu ally break the law to be a ccused, arrested, and
what not. They just look good going after people, it makes it seem like they are doing something.
Now, I hope I haven t scared anyone off with th is ra ther gloomy exercise in what if s. Should you worry about posting here?
No, you should not worry. You are perfectly justified in discussing what you do. It is only if you happen to do something really
bad that information posted here at The Forum can be used against you. The Forum exists to inform the law abiding, and
that s who we are. For those who break the law, you have other worries bes ides what wa s posted here.

I have to disagree with the "If, not when" part.
The RTC incident made it a when. Now it's just a matter of when the next one will be. Given how about 10% of the population
is generally considered to have some kind of mental problem, then out of 4,000 members, that means we've got 400 weirdos
here. ;)
If only one tenth of one percent of the population is psycho, than that's four nutjobs amoung us. Multiply that by our projected
growth and the problem only gets worse, not better. Eventually it'll happen that someone will do something serious enough to
draw the feds attention to us.
Guerilla September 24th, 2003, 07:01 AM

When that RTC fella blew up the shopping mall, how was it hundreds of people were able to connect us to him in a matter of
hours? He only made a few posts here, but that was enough to encourage all the lookey loos to swamp the board. I can tell
you who wa s first amo ng them On a s ide no te, I wonder if the Fin nish authorities are s till loo king into sh utting sites like ours
(probably just ours) down.
I dont think they are, if they ever even were to do that. They dropped the idea of restricting even the local forum(s) where the
guy had participated more than here. None was accused of assisting him with the strike. All the "forum hunt" rumours are
probably just blustering by some politician/reporter...
I find it rather hard one to charge this forum as a whole, because of some crime. I mean this isnt any official organisation
where every member would stand for one and the same trend of ideas. Which is a good thing of course. :)
TreverSlyFox September 24th, 2003, 08:09 AM

wrench352,
I'ed say your timeline is in the ballpark though it really depends on Who (Fed or Local), Why (your just a fringe element or
your THE subject of intrest). If your a fringe element they'er not going to spend a whole lot of time on you unless they find
something bigtime, unless they'er out to make an example of everyone involved in whatever they'er looking at. As far as how
long you'ed be hot. It'll still depend on what they find out about you or what they think they've found out about you. Just
remember that once your name comes up in an investigation it's never forgotten. All that info is put into a database
somewhere.
If it's a local PD investigation they'er looking for major players. Investigations take time, manpower and money, and they'er
not going to waste their limited budget unless they have some reason to see you as a major case (lots of press and a slam
dunk conviction). Of course if your local prosecutor is up for re-election he may see even a small time case as a way to get
some press time out of it.
In general the Feds aren't interested in someone playing with a few ounces of this or that. They have to justify their budget so
they'er looking for big time players and big time press releases/coverage. The problem with the Feds is they have the budget,
time and resources to give you a good going over if they think they can make a small case SEEM to be a big case.
With the aftermath of McVeigh and now 9-11 things have taken a decidedly turn-for-the-worse. The Patriot Act gave LEOs a
whole lot of expanded powers and some prosecutors are really out for blood now. The Feds are really chomping at the bit and
Ashcroft just sent word to all Federal prosecutors that he wants the Maximum in every case.
Of all the time in history this is the worse time to be involved in this activity. Most sheeple that would be on a Jury won't think
twice about convicting a "bomber" or "bomb maker". Be very careful in your posts and keep them "dreams" or "theoretical".
I'm sure many of you have seen the post in the Water Cooler by Total CDRW titled "It not good to brag but..." Now that's the
kind of post that could start an investigation all by it's self. For some reason some people seem to think that they'er
anonymous here rather than naked in front of a crowed yelling at the top of your lungs how bad a boy you've been. That post
is a prosecutors dream, not just a confession but a public confession posted for all to see.

I agree, it's amazing how many people think they're magically untraceable once they disconnect form the 'net. Even people
connecting through a proxy are far from being guarranteed anonymitty.
We've probably got more the national average for pyschological disorders here, I just think our typical member is more prone
to them. More intelligent people seem to be more at risk, just like an OC'ed computer running hotter will likely have more
problems/failures.
That said, many pyschological "problems" are greatly exaggerated, and many afflicted people are fine, just not "normal"
(define "normal" anyway:rolleyes: ).

Here's a dandy llittle article that any of you who have looked at or bought items
on e-bay should read... e-bay is NOT your friend (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?
itemNo=264863&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=264863)
Who needs a subpoena? "We don't make you show a subpoena, except in exceptional cases," Sullivan told his listeners.
"When someone uses our site and clicks on the `I Agree' button, it is as if he agrees to let us submit all of his data to the
legal authorities. Which means that if you are a law-enforcement officer, all you have to do is send us a fax with a request for
information, and ask about the person behind the seller's identity number, and we will provide you with his name, address,
sales history and other details - all without having to produce a court order. We want law enforcement people to spend time on
our site," he adds. He says he receives about 200 such requests a month, most of them unofficial requests in the form of an
email or fax.
The meaning is clear. One fax to eBay from a lawman - police investigator, NSA, FBI or CIA employee, National Park ranger -
and eBay sends back the user's full name, email address, home address, mailing address, home telephone number, name of
company where seller is employed and user nickname. What's more, eBay will send the history of items he has browsed,
feedbacks received, bids he has made, prices he has paid, and even messages sent in the site's various discussion groups.
WolverineAtWork September 25th, 2003, 08:09 PM

I would say the true test of The Forum s mettle will come IF (I s ay if, NOT when) s ome regular here happens to deton ate a
device and kills a large number of people. Will this change anything? Will I have to alter my principals just because some
demented person committed an evil act? I would hope the answer is no.
I would hope that this forum would survive despite attacks against its subject matter. Many similar attacks are being made
threatening wholesome hobbies that the sheeple have have been led to believe are evil. Assault rifle and machine gun
shooting enthusiasts are constantly on the defensive regarding thier hobby. It makes me wonder when the masses are going
to try and outlaw cutlery because some nut-job went psycho with a butcher knife. Obviously, this subject matter is much more
likely to draw an enormous amount of attention, but then, that's the nature of explosions.
The next question is, what do we do to prevent or combat an attack on our right to congregate here on the net? Firearms have
the NRA, shall we start up the Association of Pyromaniacs and Explosives Enthusiasts?
Hang-Man September 25th, 2003, 08:30 PM

The NRA takes enough heat. And guns are legal (just in case someone didn't know, building any pyrotechnic device, be it AP
or a sparkler, is illegal) The "Association of Pyromaniacs and Explosives Enthusiasts" would be shut down before it started. Sad
but true. I think the anarchists cookbook(full of shit as it is) would take more heat than us though.

(just in case someone didn't know, building any pyrotechnic device, be it AP or a sparkler, is illegal)
That's not as definite as you think-
In the US, MAKING and TESTING stuff is not illegal (at the federal level).
STORING and DISTRIBUTING stuff is, without proper license, inspected
and approved storage facility and proper record keeping.
Local laws vary widely.
cameroneod September 30th, 2003, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Bert
OK, TreverSlyFox, cameroneod- What do YOU think?
Hey, any other LEO's, EOD's, federal agents or
holders of ATFE type 20 or 50 permits out there?
Please feel free to chime in-
Personally Im much more concerned about the really dangerous sites like Totse. Im not in the business of busting people for
experimenting with or talking about explosives though. Most of the people here are actually very safety concious, which is my
main concern. In my opinion, the only time the people on a forum, such as this, would need to worry is if there was a major
bombing and the person admitted to receiving their information from this site. At that point Id expect an investigation (archive
search) to find out if anyone gave information directly to the individual knowing what the outcome would be. Because most
everyone here is relating past experiences (which will very rarely be a source of trouble) and hypothetical situations, there
really isnt any need to be concerned. Just my .02 though, so take it with a grain of salt.
bobo September 30th, 2003, 01:45 PM

I find Totse a rather childish (or meant to be funny) site actually, and probably 99,9% of it's readers never do anything with
the data found there. On this forum, the ratio of people who do anything more than blast 1 gram of AP is probably much
higher, and it certainly looks professional.
The people who assess danger are possibly not capable of distinguishing between real danger and play, as I understand it is a
very bad idea right now to joke about explosives at any American airport no matter how obvious the joke, and who knows what
individual prosecutors might do in their bloody crusade for a safe world. In that sense, Totse will attract some heat and I
remember that one guy was sent to prison in the US for linking to 'bomb making sites'. I never knew which sites those were,
but probably these sites were not really serious by international standards. And anyone typing 'explosives' on a PTP software
will find the same info.
Anyway, besides the 50% of the readers of this forum who are member of intelligence agency there may be one amateur
terrorist raghead among us who found this forum and is going to blow up something with the info found here. It is very
unlikely that any real terror network needs the info found here because it's standard chemistry knowledge that is merely
collected and discussed here.

I believe there are no qualifiers to information, info can't be bad, only those who use it. A terrorist raghead could just as easily
be surfing a board about cattle immunization to learn how to spread a disease in the nations food supply. He could be at a
cooking board learning how to hide poisonus leaves in a salad. Should those sites shut down because someone learned
dangerous knowledge from them? Absolutly not, they had no idea how their knowledge was going to be used, just as we do
not know how ours is to be used. We can only serve our knowledge with the intent that it be used for lawful scientific research
or personal edification.
cameroneod October 1st, 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by bobo
I find Totse a rather childish (or meant to be funny)
You should see the forums there. Some of those kids (who would be instantly banned here) take the info they get there very
seriously.
chemwarrior October 1st, 2003, 06:12 PM

CameronEOD, how many sites do you monitor??
nbk2000 October 2nd, 2003, 01:15 AM

I don't know about him, but I monitor a number of "dense" sites myself, in accordance with the RTPB 61:
"Keep up with the latest technological advances in police and military science. You will be more aware of their abilities and may
find an idea that that you can use yourself."
:)
Oh, and speaking of TOTSE, some dude came into my store earlier tonight asking if we sold dry ice to make "bombz" using 2
liter soda bottles. :rolleyes: Can't even escape k3wlZ in my real-world life.
No way in hell was I going to give him our URL, just being one more k3wl I'd have to eliminate in two weeks, so I gave him the
URL to TOTSE and told him that they knew all about how to make "bang bottles". :D
What was scary is that this guy was at least in his early twenties. Sad...very sad...
Sarevok October 2nd, 2003, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by cameroneod
Personally Im much more concerned about the really dangerous sites like Totse.
Totse?! :eek:
From the book of Jeremiah
They have stumbled in their ways, in the ancient roads, and have gone into bypaths, not the highway, making their land a
horror, a thing to be hissed at for ever. Every one who passes by it is horrified and shakes his head. Give heed to me, O
LORD, and hearken to my plea. Therefore deliver up their children to famine; give them over to the power of the sword, let
their wives become childless and widowed. May their men meet death by pestilence, their youths be slain by the sword in
battle.
Are you serious about this? Look at the "dangerous information" these fools have:
- 20 Ways to Sabotage Your School (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/irresponsible_activities/nrk54.html)
- Fun At Construction Sites! (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/irresponsible_activities/162167.html)
- 10 Great High Explosive Mixtures (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/ka_fucking_boom/10great.html) - Note that here they

don't provide any information at all, just "this + that = boom!".
- Dry Ice Bomb (http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/ka_fucking_boom/161646.html) - A very hazardous device, surely it is.
As a pawn of the government, you should be concerned about those who possess true power, not about a babbling totse idiot.
Originally posted by cameroneod

Some of those kids (who would be instantly banned here) take the info they get there very seriously.
Worry not. As bobo said, 99,9% of their members never do anything at all. Even those who take this "information" very
seriously are not going to become a real threat against the status quo you care for so much.
nbk2000 October 2nd, 2003, 03:17 AM

By "dangerous sites" I'm sure he was referring to it being "dangerous" in the sense of the information being dangerous to
anyone trying to follow it ("Hammer your AP detonator into the bomb" ;)), not dangerous to any intended target.
Sarevok, are you a Nazi too? I know there's a lot of nazi's in brazil who fled there after WWII.
Sarevok October 2nd, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by nbk2000
By "dangerous sites" I'm sure he was referring to it being "dangerous" in the sense of the information being dangerous to
anyone trying to follow it ("Hammer your AP detonator into the bomb" ;)), not dangerous to any intended target.
Yes, their misinformation is dangerous, but their information is not.

Sarevok, are you a Nazi too? I know there's a lot of nazi's in brazil who fled there after WWII. Yes. I agree with NSDAP's ideas
- the 25 guiding principles and the other points found on the Mein Kampf, which makes me a nazist, but not a neonazist (I
integrated a group of the so called neonazists for a while, and, believe me, they are white-skinned niggers - mere vandals
without political conscience).
But I would like to see NSDAP's ideas to be applied worldwide, not only applied on a strict location (like Germany). This
worldwide application would consist of:
(1) The zionist democracy should be overthrowed.

(2) According to its economic situation, any given State should preserve the racial integrity of its white inhabitants, while
eliminating the members of other races:
- (A) First-world countries, like USA: They should avoid their own racial degeneration by enslaving and sterilizing their
subhuman population. Thus, the subhumans would disappear as a race, working to death in the process.
- (B) Third-world countries, like Brazil: They should take care of their agonizing white inhabitants, who are trying to study and
work while the fucking niggers are corroding the very heart of the society, raping, killing, robbing, and living with the money
the political leaders take from the people who work and are taxed to death, while the local authorities don't do a shit about it.
The government should stop to give money to illiterate and worthless fools, delinquents, idiots who are unemployed because
they don't any educational degree at all, imbeciles who can't live on their own and need drugs to prevent them from pissing on
their own pants, and enslave/sterilize them.
(3) Africans, arabs, and other walking shit should have their numbers and life conditions lowered through the sneaky use of
poisoned food, and biological/chemical agents. When their numbers become reduced, they should be enslaved/sterilized.
Their countries would be colonized by white people, or would be abandoned as barren wastelands.
(4) Asians have potential and they handle this potential with discipline. They are dangerous and should be destroyed as soon
as possible.
(5) As an additional protocol, a female would be forced to marry me.
(6) It would be imperative to eliminate anyone who disagrees with any of these procedures.
If you didn't, you should read The Bell Curve Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (http://www.amazon.com/exec/
obidos/tg/detail/-/0684824299/102-1607281-9676930?v=glance). This book's author after doing a shitload of IQ tests,
pointed the obvious: the average white man has a higher IQ score than the average nigger. Thus, if the white race disappears
through interracial fornication (Know ye not? Fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God!:)), the average IQ of the human
race would lower. Culture, technology, philosophy, and even civilization itself would crumble. All our efforts would be turned to
dust, thanks to our afro-anything friends.
I have to admit it, sometimes I forget all this racial/political babble and I just want to become Satan incarnate, raping 13-17
years old virgins, slicing everyone open, fading beauty, withering trust, destroying love, dissolving hope, crumbling thrones,
invoking rains of fire and molten sulfur, earthquakes, pestilence, poverty, chaos, famine, slaughter, and quarrels. The world
would become a slaughterhouse where I insanely crush/kill/destroy everything until my very end! DEATH TO ALL THAT LIVES!
Ah, fucking shit...
Soundtrack of this post: Liar of Golgotha - The Defloration of Virgin Mary (http://usuarios.lycos.es/tzavoth/bands/liar/
dwell.htm).
nbk2000 October 2nd, 2003, 11:14 PM

I feel where you're coming from brother. :D
I read in a recent edition of The Economist that brazil has a majority population of negroids, but that the majority of university
students are white, so the obvious solution (to the liberal author) is for the government to subsidize the entry of
"disadvantaged" negros into colleges that they would otherwise not be admitted into by increasing the taxes on the higher
educated whites. :rolleyes:
What has this gotten us in the US? Large numbers of educated negros in prisons and fast food resturants. :p Given the choice
between a white man, and a black man, both with the same education, the majority of businesses choose the white man
because they know he's more likely to get the job done.
The article also noted how a larger percentage of part-white negroids were in college than full-blooded nigs and concluded that
it was because they were able to "pass" as white. Maybe it's because their IQ is higher than the average nig due to the
advantage of having some of the inately superior genes of the white race boosting their own brainpower over that of their
otherwise inferior natural IQ as full-blooded nigs?
Where I work, out of a dozen employees there's only 1 person there who's not white, and she's asian and on her way out
(whether she knows it or not). And our workplace is a very relaxed place to work at (except for the asshole boss) because we
don't have to worry about "offending" any sensitive "disadvantaged" types. :p
In my past vocation of convenience store clerk, we had a turnover rate of about 1 person per month...the majority of them
being the niggers...because they couldn't hack working, or because they'd be caught stealing. At least fuckin' mexicans can
work, something the nigs can't manage, but that's only cause they've got traces of caucasian in them from when the spainards
raped the conquered native woman. :)
The only way anything is going to happen to maintain the Aryan race is if we rise up one day, say "Enough is enough!", and let
loose hell on earth. Because any such race war is going to be to the extinction of either the Aryan race, or the muds, because
there will be no room for surrender for either side once it starts.
I, personally, would be all for establishing a terraforming aryan colony on mars, and leaving the earth to fall back into barbaric
chaos at the hands of the muds and their race-traitor cohorts.
Then, after a few centuries, after the earth has falling back into the stone-age at the hands of the dark masses, the far-
advanced space-faring Aryans can simply bombard the planet from orbit with asteroids they tow from the asteroid belt near
mars, snuff out all complex life from earth by blotting out the sun (like what happened to the dinosaurs) and finish off any
survivors with precision orbital bombardment with small impactors launched from the lunar colony they'd establish.
After a few more centuries, to let the dust settle, aryans can recolonize the now habitable earth as a resource planet, have a
pristine mars with a breathable atmosphere as a homeland, and begin to expand to the stars, spreading the species of Homo
Superious ;) throughout the galaxy, without any dregs to hold us back. :)
All the while worshipping me as the visonary leader who made it all possible, thawing me out from my cryogenic suspension,
and ensuring my immortality so that I may guide them to eternal victory over the inevitable unter-alien speciess we'll
encounter! :D
I didn't know TOTSE had anything BUT misinformation. I'm sure they stole any real information they may have there from us.
Sarevok October 3rd, 2003, 01:38 AM

I read in a recent edition of The Economist that brazil has a majority population of negroids, but that the majority of university
students are white, so the obvious solution (to the liberal author) is for the government to subsidize the entry of
"disadvantaged" negros into colleges that they would otherwise not be admitted into by increasing the taxes on the higher
educated whites. :rolleyes:
This is already happening in some parts of the country. People think this as being good, because "Brazil exploited our african
brothers, so we must compensate this now". How foolish. The only people exploited by Brazil were italian and german workers
who came from their countries to work here. They had to work for free for a year just to pay their travel fee. After this, they
worked as slaves earning an amount of money lower than the amount spent in the past to sustain a slave. Today the
descendants of these italian and german workers sustain this wasteland, while the nigs are being fed thanks to the help they
receive from our social-democratic government.
I do believe everyone here is accepting this because, in the recent past, Brazil's white inhabitants started to suffer a profound
negronization. TV had only black "culture" to show, female apes became models of beauty while white girls had to go to the
beach to burn their skin, because "pale is ugly". If you hear a racist joke here about niggers being dumb, someone can even
call the cops, but a very common kind of joke here are the jokes about blondes. Essentially the jokes say blonde females are
dumb. Sad enough, everyone finds this funny! :mad: Even the blondes themselves, not only they like these jokes, but they
think themselves to be foolish because of their hair color. If a blonde does something wrong, she will say "ah forgive me, you
know, I'm a blonde". White middle-class people are starting to wear their hair like Bob Marley, to hear reggae and rap, etc. No
matter, Brazil is unimportant, this is just my temporary home. Having the opportunity (if I survive to the growing urban
violence spreaded by the niggers in every fucking city here), I will simply go away from this crapland.

The only way anything is going to happen to maintain the Aryan race is if we rise up one day, say "Enough is enough!", and let
loose hell on earth. Because any such race war is going to be to the extinction of either the Aryan race, or the muds, because
there will be no room for surrender for either side once it starts.
It would be good, but I think this race war is not going to happen. I do believe the white youth will be negronizated worldwide,
first culturally, through the zionist-friendly media and then phisically, through nigger male and white-female-who-is-so-hot-
she-needs-a-real-man(read nigger) fornication. Its just a matter of time. We're all doomed.
megalomania October 3rd, 2003, 04:02 PM

TOTSE has a most wonderful section on explosives... too bad they STOLE IT ALL FROM ME!

I'm afraid TOTSE misread the RTPB "Imitate, then innovate" as "Imitate, then deny". ;)
Nitroman October 13th, 2003, 06:23 PM

The question is, do the FBI know the difference beetween a TERRORIST and a HOBBYIST?
Anthony October 14th, 2003, 02:42 PM
I'm guessing that in many cases you end up being whatever they want you to be...
thoughtaddict October 14th, 2003, 05:26 PM

Let us assume that we are being monitored by the FBI/CIA/whatever government body you wish.
Let us assume that they understand that we have quite a bit of knowledge here about how to make explosive devices.
Also, assume that they understand this is not a terrorist board.
Further, let us assume that there are wackos here.
Now, why in the hell would they want to shut us down? To splinter all of those wackos away from productive, non-violent
theoretical discussion while simultaneously pissing them off? It could happen, but it would be a stupid idea. NBK alone would
be enough of a threat if pissed... why have a whole board of explosives connosieurs wanting to get revenge?
vulture October 14th, 2003, 07:27 PM

They're not afraid of shutting us down because we know how to make explosives. :rolleyes:
500kg of RDX aren't going to do shit to rescue you when a SWAT team raids your house in the middle of the night.
They're not shutting us down because they can monitor us. If we were to communicate through underground channels, using
encryption and special keywords, they would have a hard time figuring out what we were up to.
BTW, it's "connaisseurs".
Hang-Man October 15th, 2003, 06:20 PM

NBK alone would be enough of a threat if pissed...
If one of 'us' got arrested, how challenging do you think it would be for the rest of us to get him out? I say we could get in and
out of a medium prison without much of a problem. Do you think there is a barrier that any 3 of the mods here could not
bypass with little more than a rubber band, a paper clip and a drinking straw?

super max, terra haute,ind
camp x-ray,guantanamo bay,cuba
kind off topic-I envisioned this as about being investigated and the inherent hazards therein
grandyOse October 16th, 2003, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by TreverSlyFox
I can't stress this enough, if your questioned by LEOs, SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Say nothing more than your name and "I want a
lawyer" PERIOD! .
Sometimes a few choice phrases can help, such as, "You do not have my permission to search my vehicle. You are conducting
an illegal search." It worked for me.
T_Pyro October 16th, 2003, 03:50 AM

One of the elemental rules of surveilance:
If you gain acces to the enemy's mode/medium of communication, you do NOT shut it down, or let them know about it.
If the "authorities" are yet unaware of our presence (which I seriously doubt), well and good. On the other hand, if they do
know about the presence of the forum, I really don't think they'd make their presence felt in a hurry.
The forum logs the ip of all members who post on the forum. Is the same done for "outside visitors" too? If so, (and again
assuming they haven't spoofed their ip), wouldn't the mods come to know if anyone from the "authorities" come to knock on
our door? Are there records of any such visits in the past?
Flake2m October 16th, 2003, 06:42 AM

This is how I see it;
If you have a group a group of people that are conducting activities which are against the law but not harming people or
property you have two choices;
1. shut the group down be any means possible
2. leave them alone in the hope that they'll eventually get bored/over it
Now this forum is a place created to exchange knowledge. It will never condone terrorism even though some of the ideas that
come from its members are boarderline disturbing.
So IF I was FBI/police/CIA/ASIO/MI5/whatever I might monitor this forum. However since esentially this forum is promoting
knowledge rather then terrorism there would be no need to shut it down.
This board could even become a source of information for idea on possible ways to attack/build/thwart stuff.
This forum is arguably one of the best sources of information on the 'net when it comes to explosives and improvised
weapons. So why shut it down when the authorities can use it to help prevent possible acts of terrorism?
wrench352 October 16th, 2003, 11:54 AM

The lycaeum(I think) I believe has a system in place to track suspect gov. computer by address(.mil,.gov,.us,etc) and tracks
what they look at.On a side note has any one bought from a bad supplier,reverse sting,etc and has good hind sight.
Im looking at a domestic supplier,that claims to sell to individuals that carries hydrazine,pe,etc.There is one other supplier
that makes such claims that is reputed to be a reverse sting.Are things that look too good to be true,not?
Also Mods I thought there was a policy about not overtly revealing sources.I was sorely pissed to see one of my better sources
revealed on the board recently.I can only imagine they will be overrun with idiots, kewls &(hopefully not)federal attention.
Please dont feed the kewls

feds either

Megalomania, isn't that the mark of lamer site ? Plagiarize from a good source and
claim it as their own ? Those assholes put just enough REAL information out there to
make their sorry asses look legitimate. Unfortunately, some dumbass kids will more
than likely use some the so-called "easy" methods(read UNSAFE) and end up losing
a limb or their lives. And the rest of us will be blamed -- that I'm sure of !
Jacks Complete November 25th, 2003, 06:36 PM

It is difficult to say that the feds or whatever would run round stealing our ideas :wink: , or monitoring what we are up to.
I suspect they do tag in every once in a while, and they probably do keep a note of the IP addresses of those visiting. These
would be dragged up if, in ten years time, you did anything worse than get a traffic ticket.
In the UK, the nazi statement made above would actually be enough to get the board closed down, the owner into lots of
trouble, and nbk2000 and Sarevok arrested and sent to jail. A man who was caught fly posting about blacks being the cause
of most of the violence in the Glasgow area was arrested. In court, it was found that the truth had nothing to do with if the
statement was racist, so even though it was true, he still went to jail.
Of course, just visiting this site and owning a bit of pipe might get you hauled over the coals in the UK. I have just spent ten
minutes searching for the newspaper article mentioned above, using terms like "glasgow racist bnp prosecution truth poster"
and not found anything. Of course, I visited lots of racist and anti-racist sites in that time, and the searches, like every other
URL, are logged by the ISP, ready for the cops to "request" at any time... (See the "Regulation of Investigatory powers" act, a
terrible piece of facist legislation)
Of course, all these draconian laws achieve nothing but an overwhelming defeat of public spirit. A new scheme to have car
owners pay 100 to have the car fingerprinted has just been launched near here. Fucking pathetic! People would happily pay
100 if it meant the little shit(s) got sent down for even a week, just to teach them a lesson, but they don't... You can steal a
hundred cars and not go to jail, or burgle a hundred homes (at no risk of being beaten or shot, lest you sue the owner!)
without fear of more than a few months inside.
When the cops and the courts start campaigns to ban replica guns because kids are robbing people at "gunpoint" I think it is
a little too late to just pass another law - after all, armed robbery has been illegal for many years!
However, a simple summons to appear in court to your home, because you obey the law, and can be tracked, is all hundreds
of motorists can expect every day.
When the law isn't just, and everyone is a criminal, the cops just go for the easy targets. If the UK cops get the FBI to look at
the IPs, and they can get the ISPs to hand over our names and addresses, I suspect that quite a few members will get a letter
delivered by hand by PC Plod.
However, until someone spoon-feeds it to the UK cops, they will stick to easier things, like people who have nice middle-class
homes with hedges two inches too tall...
Not that I am a cynic at all...
tmp November 26th, 2003, 05:51 PM

Jack's Complete, I read about Tony Martin who was sent to prison for murder in
the UK for having the audacity to defend his farm from burglars with a shotgun.
I also read that violent crime skyrocketed there since the government banned
handguns. The politically correct have turned justice on its head. Here in America,
the situation isn't that bad - yet. But big city mayors and their corrupt political
machines have tried to sue the gun manufactures for gun crimes even though
the manufactures have no control at that point. Gun control, as strict as it is,
is a colossal failure. The politically correct will not listen however. Their answer
to crime is to pass more laws against the average gun owner and not the pieces
of shit who are causing the problems. I'm sure the members of the FORUM are
viewed as a threat because we think for ourselves and not kiss the asses of the
politicians who want to control our lives. BTW, when the politicians and their trial
lawyer friends sued the tobacco industry, the money the states received and are
receiving was supposed to fund anti-smoking programs and to help pay for the
medical bills of sick smokers. Very little of that money was used for either
purpose. Instead it was spent on more welfare programs to reward the lazy
among us and buy their votes for re-election.
ossassin December 7th, 2003, 09:11 PM

Gee, this stuff is creepy. For the record, I've never made anything illegal, such as explosives, firearms, supressors, etc., nor
do I plan to. I simply like discussing them, because I find them fascinating. I don't want anything like that on my record. I
also think that it is good for civilians to know a little about those sorts of things, just in case we should be attacked on US soil.
We live in an arrogant country that thinks that nothing can ever happen to us. In the event of a catasrtophe, it might be left to
the citizens to defend the country, at least for a while. I actually plan on joiing the military some day. Until then, I'm just doing
what I can. :) A little knowledge in the hands of a civilian just might save the country. That belief is what let us win the
Revolutionary War.
On a side note, is the American Revolutionary War a touchy subject in an international forum like this? I'm just curious.
Hang-Man December 7th, 2003, 11:02 PM
A little knowledge in the hands of a civilian just might save the country
A little Experience in the hands of a civilian just might save the country a whole lot faster.
KAROMESIS December 17th, 2003, 11:13 PM

" It is the right of the people to alter or abolish it"... U.S constitution reffering to the government and it's propensity to
overstep it's boundaries. when it gets out of control like it is now . The masses fear the government and that fear rules them
with an iron fist..."If it be of choice it is better to be feared rather than loved"..Niccolo Machiavelli. I will attest to having my
suspicions about this forum and the feds.and I am certain that there are feds watching. anyway I agree with most others in
that TNO always cover your ass ect. what amazes me is that in another thread I read about a fucking moron who hammered
an AP det into place and lost two fingers in the process,but he still had the right mind to physically remove his hard drive.
Flake2m December 18th, 2003, 01:49 AM

Read my current sig and you might realise what this world is becoming.
WA is trying to pass a bill a bill which lets the ACC (anti corruption commision) the most power of any state. The ACC will also
have the power to do extraordinary searches on properties without warrants as well and use assumed identies. I thought WA
was less facist then the rest of Oz....
wrench352 December 18th, 2003, 02:27 AM

There have been some busts recently in my state,kids making pipe bombs,know how they got caught?Downloading
kiddieporn.Just somethin for yall to think about.
On another note,I was reading a cop magazine the otherday.There was an article about a methlab bust,the cops talked about
the fingerprints on the labglass sewing up the case.No deniability.So,yet one more reason yall should be wearin your latex for
safety.And how bout this, next yard sale you have set out a piece or two of labglass,no pricetag.When someone picks up the
piece,tell em the price is 4x whatever you paid for it.Now you have labware with someone elses fingerprints on it.This works
good for weapons too.
Hang-Man December 18th, 2003, 07:46 PM

There are two kinds of freedom- to have all of one means none of the other: Freedom from, and freedom to. You could
have a society where everyone is free to do what ever they want but then we would be at risk of being shot and having our
shit ruined. Or we could have a society where you have the freedom from fear and hate and violence, but then you would
have to be restrained from dong things that infrin ge on everyone else s freedoms. Everyone can see where we are headed-
a s ociety where we can't do anything because it offends someone. Eve n now- we ca nt cele brate Christma s in school because
it would offend non-Christians. There comes a time when you have to kick the government in the nuts and say "you can t
please everyone" give us back our guns.

Can ACC/FBI see when you DL things on Limewire or Kazaa?
Amen hang_man

Well if the RIAA can find you,I would assume your local three letter agency could too.In the end its a matter of your ISP giving
you up.Run your connection through a proxy server if you gonna download something suspicious.Those files are never labeled
right you know.Sick fucker

We have nothing to worry about. I mean no one here has ever made anything illegal right?
A way to tell those who are FBI...Megalomania you should look at the accounts that actively browse the forum more than 3
hours a day but never post. People who browse more than about 2 hours a day are damn sure going to post frequently. If not,
then they know nothing and are not benefiting the forum at all.

Keith,I think I'm actually dumber for having read that.A far smarter way to sort things out is this:
FedWatch (http://fedwatch.lycaeum.org/?do=faq)
and this:(sorry,Im tired)
http://fedwatch.lycaeum.org/
I always wanted to ask NBK about the .gov and .mil hits here.Keith plenty of people come here,want their anonanimity,and
loiter.I used to.Besides you should only be posting if you can contribute(I dont mean you),like this post.Not posting because
your lonely,helpless or want to see what cool name the board is going to give you next.
tmp January 8th, 2004, 12:42 AM

I'm more paranoid than ever about our federal(US) government after reading this
today. With all of the problems the federal courts are supposed to deal with this
blew my mind:
Jailing the Innocent by Paul Craig Roberts
Jailing the Innocent

by Paul Craig Roberts
by Paul Craig Roberts
Every day many Americans commit crimes of which they are unaware.
Many of the crimes with which Americans are charged are absurd.
One recent case brought to light by Ellen Podgor and Paul Rosenzweig
is that of three Americans sentenced in federal court to eight years
in prison for importing lobster tails from Honduras in plastic bags
instead of cardboard boxes. Why this matters, no one knows. Moreover
the importers of the lobster tails have no responsibility for how
the seafood was packed in Honduras.
Federal prosecutors decided that Honduran law was violated by the
shipment because a few tails (3% of the shipment) were less than 5.5
inches in length.
The Honduran government objects to this interpretation of its law
and filed a brief in behalf of the defendants, but federal judges
nevertheless convicted their fellow citizens for violating the Lacey
Act by importing "fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or
sold in violation of any foreign law."
To insure a harsh sentence the prosecutors loaded up charges against
the defendants by bringing indictments for smuggling, money
laundering and conspiracy. Smuggling is inferred from a few of the
tails allegedly being undersized and illegal. Money laundering is
charged because the lobster purchase and sale required money to be
deposited in a bank. Conspiracy is charged on the basis that more
than one person was involved.
In other words, these are totally trumped-up crimes.
The upshot is that three Americans have had their lives ruined by
federal prosecutors and judges for violating a Honduran law that the
Honduran president, attorney general and embassy say is not on their
country s statute books .
For reasons no one knows, federal prosecutors spent six months
trying to find reasons in Honduran law to indict the American
importers of the lobster tails. If it took federal prosecutors six
months to find something in foreign law that they could allege the
importers to have violated, how could the importers possibly have
known that they could be imprisoned for the ordinary everyday
business of importing lobster tails for restaurants?
Legal scholars such as Mr. Rosenzweig at the Heritage Foundation and
Erik Luna at the University of Utah Law School are calling attention
to the overcriminalization that has made it impossible in America to
conduct ordinary business activities without risk of indictment. It
is tyrannical to burden Americans with the substantive obligation of
knowing how federal prosecutors might interpret every foreign law.
No sane pe rson cou ld regard the lobster importers conduct as
criminal. Liberty is extinguished where law is so broad and vague as
to entrap even the most honest citizen.
Nave Americans tend to regard miscarriages of justice, such as the
lobster import case, as rare examples of legal idiocy that somehow
will be corrected by the legal system. However, such cases are
routine and are seldom if ever corrected. In America today law
enforcement boils down to the exercise of power by unaccountable
prosecutors. Justice is not served by ensnaring the innocent.
Married men who happen to own guns are being turned into felons by
wives who ask for restraining orders when they file for divorce.
Prosecutors interpret restraining orders as criminalizing prior gun
ownership. A restraining order turns a law-abiding gun owner into a
criminal. It is an example of unconstitutional ex post facto law at
its worst.
Americans are uninformed about the tyrannical nature of their
criminal justice system. Until they become personally ensnared in
the system, Americans believe that police and prosecutors would
never convict an innocent person. Once they experience the system,
Americans are terrified b y the system s indifference to whether a
defendant has committed a crime.
Mary Sue Terry, former attorney general of the Commonwealth of
Virginia, says the concern of the justice system "has turned from
seeking truth to seeking convictions, and our post-conviction
efforts are focused on denying any further review."
Ever widening arrest powers are bringing a reality check to more and
more Americans. Just before Christmas the US Supreme Court ruled
that a police officer who discovers contraband in a car can arrest
every occupant if no one admits to ownership of the illicit item.
Warn your teenagers never to get into a car with acquaintances who
might have alcohol, drugs, or weapons. And be careful whose car you
get into yourself.
In a recent Cato Policy Report, Erik Luna says that "the sheer
number of idiosyncratic laws and the scope of discretionary
enforcement" are making criminals out of many Americans who had no
intent to break a law or any knowledge that they had.
A country that goes out of its way to imprison the innocent has no
business preaching democracy to the world.
January 7, 2004
Dr. Roberts [send him mail] is John M. Olin Fellow at the Institute
for Political Economy, Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover
Institution, Stanford University, and Research Fellow at the
Independent Institute. He is a former associate editor of the Wall
Street Journal and a former assistant secretary of the U.S.
Treasury. He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
Copyright 2004 Creators Syndicate
Paul Craig Roberts Archives
Back to LewRockwell.com Home Page
It's been said that more federal judges need to be appointed to the bench to
handle the backlog of pending cases. When the federal persecutors waste time
and OUR money for bullshit like this it's no fucking wonder why they have a
backlog. BTW, the Lacey Act sounds like a law made by environmentalist whackos !
Smuggling, money laundering, and conspiracy are charges I would expect to be
brought against drug dealers - not lobster importers ! Apparently, the feds have nothing better to do !
Flake2m January 8th, 2004, 03:56 AM

Maybe if American law stopped this bullshit then maybe they would be actually able to catch some real crooks. Sure theres
your average PETTY crimminal but then there are the real players, the ones that rip off thousands of people each day and the
companies that earn millions or billions of dollars in profit every year by selling cheap shithouse gear or by poison the people
and environment.
Aryan_Nations January 8th, 2004, 12:28 PM

As my profile states im a newbie. But I find it amazing how much I have in common with most on here. I have been in the
feds eyes a few times in my past. 1 time very recent in AZ. I would like to first state that the moderators and the webmaster
have done an excellent job with this site. After spending a few hours reading and looking over old posts you can find about
anything and everything one would need to know and learn whos just getting into the hobby as myself. This forum has been
my primary resource and am greatful for it. Second as to the feds. These guys are nasty. They will do the utmost to take you
down. And when these boys take you down they hit you hard. I.E. I have a buddy whos facing 120yrs in PA over a fed and a
BEST FRIEND who turned informant. So my advice trust no one as stated before. Not even your best friend, family members
etc. I keep my mouth shut and eyes and ears open constantly. Camera's, No trespassing signs, guns and a fence possibly
upgraded ;) is the way to go for security. also use a security system within the inside of the house as well as a couple cameras
as well. You can never be to safe or really to paranoid in my eyes. Just when you let your guard down they got ya.
Stay Safe and remember Big Brother is always near
Jeremy
Jacks Complete January 8th, 2004, 01:48 PM

Aryan_Nations,
might I suggest that from that post alone, I can infer that I could find you on the Federal security computers in moments.
You just let down your guard!
You signed with your first name, you have just admitted to having some form of association with a federal criminal, your state,
that you have form in Arizona, and you allude to some form of electric or otherwise altered fence, which is probably a crime or
misdermeanor not to have clearly signed.
If Big Bubba wants you now, they can have you...
Aryan_Nations January 8th, 2004, 02:56 PM

Brother you do a search with my name and Aryan Nations together on any search engine and you will see my status. I know
they watch me and I never admited to having an altered fence. I didnt reveil anything that isnt already plastered on the net by
these Feds about myself. I have been dealing with these "clears throat" for sometime now. I know the games they play and
how they have screwed with me. All I was simply trying to accomplish was educate others that arent in the public eye of what to
beware of.
zyk43 January 8th, 2004, 05:02 PM

I notice you were mentioning PC privacy...
Check out a program called BC Wipe, its government certified for permanent data erasure from hard drives, its a free trial
download and a minimal license fee once the 30 days are up
p.s. sorry if this has already been mentioned
wrench352 January 8th, 2004, 10:44 PM

Zyke43, thanks for your input,there is a thread on this already. Since you bring it up two very good multiuse products that I
recommend(if that means anything) are Cyberscrub and Steganos Security Suite. If one was to search hard enough both
products could be had for free. Cyberscrub has a trial version available.Cybercrub has 11 wipe options including DoD(7
passes),my favorite "Beyond DoD" (3+7+3 passes), Gutmann methods(35 passes) and for you incurable paranoids, is fully
customizable.Steganos Security Suite has all your pc security needs in one basket. I like the hidden encrypted drives and the
steganographic encryption. Yes I know,neither of these are perfect, but they make for a good first line of defense in easy to
use packages.
Aryan_nations, Welcome aboard.

Mods,please delete if this is inappropriate.
Good Mornin y'all. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but. In another thread I gave a link to an article that in turn gave links
to two businesses that would sell to individuals. IMHO,this is how y'all should,if possible, give supplier info as it keeps k3wlz
from fuckin up your connections.
Anyway,while doing research it has come to my attention that one of the suppliers might be in the pocket of a three letter
agency. Use extreme prejudice when ordering through these guys.
For what its worth here is the direct link:

http://www.kyantec.com/
And here is the warning I found:

WARNING (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-
8&threadm=f5438d7b.0209171559.607c9570%40posting.goo gle.com&rnum=1&prev=/
groups%3Fq%3Dantec,fbi%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUT F-8%26oe%3DUTF-
8%26selm%3Df5438d7b.0209171559.607c9570%2540postin g.google.com%26rnum%3D1)
That warning was two years old,and it still seems to bee a honeypot. Has anyone had recent dealings with these people?
redbull August 27th, 2004, 06:25 PM

That site is dedicated to selling chemicals to make methamphetamine
and similar drugs. They "specialize in lithium compounds" "we sell any quantity
from a gram to a barge load" and the quanta pack option will pre weigh and
pre package chemicals for you. It was SO obvious I would like to slap
anyone stupid enough to order from them. :mad:
Bugger September 6th, 2004, 05:47 AM

In other words, the company was a FBI or DEA front for a "sting" operation. But, what about people wanting to buy chemicals
from them for entirely innocent purposes? And what if one expresses a "general" interest in buying unspecified chemicals from
them, and asks for a catalog, but as the result one is deluged with advertizing and solicitations to buy specific chemicals that
could be used in drug-making? If one gave in to such "badgering" to buy, and bought chemicals which could be used for drug-
making as well as having innocent uses (for which they were intended), and were "busted" by the pigs for possessing drug
precursors as the result, in such a case the indictment would be thrown out of court on account of entrapment.
Bugger.
Bugger September 6th, 2004, 06:02 AM

WA is trying to pass a bill a bill which lets the ACC (anti corruption commision) the most power of any state. The ACC will also
have the power to do extraordinary searches on properties without warrants as well and use assumed identies. I thought WA
was less fascist then the rest of Oz....
Does Australia have, in its Constitution, an annexe which sets out civil rights, like the first 10 Amendments (Bill of Rights) of
the U.S. Constitution; or alternatively a separate Bill of Rights Act having the same function? (In New Zealand, we have the
N.Z. Bill Of Rights Act 1990, which is even more comprehensive than the U.S. Bill of Rights.) If so, such a law would fail with the
first case brought under it. In the U.S.A., such a proposed law, which I understand in West Australia will also allow arbitrary
confiscation of property, would be contrary to the 4th and 5th Amendments, and "struck down" in its first test. (And the same
would happen in New Zealand).
And why does Australia, or at least West Australia, need a special Anti-Corruption Commission? Are things in government that
rotten there? Here, the New Zealand Pigs are bad enough.
Bugger.
Hobbit Porn September 7th, 2004, 04:01 AM

I don't think the Australian constitution has anything like the Bill of rights anything else included in it.... apparently (as I've
never bothered to read it) it is writtern more like a trade agreement more then anything else.
I doubt that the supplier mentioned is a 'front' for the FBI, in the warning it said he is being investigated by the FIB..
investigation doesn't mean he is in cahoots.. to me it implies the opposite (they are trying to put him in jail).
Its kinda hard to believe that it would be a 'sting' operation, because it basically is entrapment.
However, I thought that chemical suppliers (at least in Australia) had to monitor the amounts of certain chemicals that are
being bought by an individual (even have background checks and have the customer sign something about its intended
purspose), and if an individual is buying suspect amounts or in suspect combinations, they are required to alert authorities,
who then decide whether or not to investigate.
H.Porn
redbull September 9th, 2004, 03:32 AM

How about importing "bad" chemicals? Since customs dosent have the capability to
go through everything coming into the country, can you buy them from abroad?
Is there a country that dosen't care about suspicious chemical purchaces? I hear that
the eastern european companies (former USSR) don't care in general and just want
your money. (I would suppose if it's not useful in chemical weapons they wont get
into trouble...)
I'm pretty sure in the US unliscenced posession of Red Phosphorus is an instant felony.
Now, short of purchacing automatically illegial chemicals, would you be ok even if they
were list I or II? (Under threshold quantities per shippment of course ;) )

RP by itself wouldn't be a crime.
BUT...if you had a package of cold pills in your house (even 1 tablet), than that'd be "possession of precursors with intent to
manufacture methamphetamine". :p
Mr. Pseudo September 10th, 2004, 03:01 AM

osassin, nothing is a 'touchy' subject on this forum. 'touchy' by definition, would mean that you're trying to be PC, so as not to
hurt anyones widdle feewings.
I was just thinking...I wonder if it's possible that a frequent poster, or even a trusted member of the Roguesci community,
could be "Hot Bacon". The info they could glean in such a position would be incredibly more valuable than what they could get
from lurking in the shaows. Imagine holding a personal conversation with your mark, without his knowledge. It would be
perfectly legal, and nobody would even IMAGINE tht they could be in the crosshairs, with the person they're talking to building
a case against him!
Just some food for thought.
On another note, a powerful magnet, placed on the HD should scramble the data beyond all recognition. In any laptop, the HD
is easily and quickly removable. A quick smash on the ground to bust it open, followed by a few swipes with the mag should
make any hex-decrypting useless.
In most tower computers, there are several slots for drives to be swapped. The top slot could be rigged with an electric fuze
igniting a small quantity of magnesim powder, which would ignite a block of thermite. The thermite would burn straight through
the entire tower, obliterating the HD, MoBo, and RAM. The 'rigged slot' would not even be noticeable unless the comp was
opened up, as the drives all come with covers.
The drive could be entirely self-enclosed, and be removable incase you ever wanted to sell the comp.
Hmm...probably the wrong place for that post.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > It's not good to brag but...
Log in
View Full Version : It's not good to brag but...
Total_CDRW S e p t e m b e r 2 0th, 2003, 09:51 PM

I'm the proud owner of a a ho u s e n e x t t o a p a r k , t h i s p a r k h a s a f o o t b a l l g a m e, once a week, at this tim e, i just lit off like 2
puln umas, and it was sweet hearing those people scream . I usually light some KNO3-Sugar when their gam e's are during the
day, but it is so sweet watching all those stupid kids turn their head's only to have missed the m ost brillian flash, and a quite
loud b a n g .
anyone have experiences as fun as this?

RTPB 19. Don't associate with known losers, they'll only bring you down.
Sign s of a loser:
...
Brags about having done things, been places, known people, or owned things tha t are
o b v i o u s l y b e y o n d t h e m . Bragging about ANYTHING is a loser trait!
...
The Amazing NBK says the answer is "Click...click". The question is: What is the sound Total_CDR W b e h e a ring in the near
future after a visit from the police? (Click...click , as in handcuffs being put on)
Setting off charges th at get people to scream in g, and doing it from your own hom e , e q u a l s b e i n g a h e a t m a g n e t . Y o u ' r e g o i n g
to draw cops like flies to shit doing tha t sort of thing, especially after 9/11.
Also, I've noticed that you've posted a lot, but only in the Water Cooler, and this is the first thing you post...in the pyro
section? This is a Water Cooler subject if ever there was one, as it has nothing to do with the pyrotechnics being used, but
rather the hare-brained use to which they are b eing put to.
Total_CDRW S e p t e m b e r 2 1st, 2003, 08:39 PM

ty for the correction...
i think id be better if i just rea d the forum... DOH!
nbk2000 S e p t e m b e r 2 1st, 2003, 09:44 PM

That's it?
blindreeper S e p t e m b e r 2 1st, 2003, 10:02 PM

ty for the correction...
i think id be better if i just rea d the forum... DOH!
I think you b etter stop using abbreviations like "ty" unless they relate to explosives or the like. eg : AN, ANFO, AP, PETN ect. It
t o o k a g o o d 1 5 s e c o n d s f o r m e to figu re out what "ty" is. It just makes things confusing. Honestly how hard is it to type "
Thank you"
And nbk has said this countless tim es capitalize "i" it's "I"
Bert September 2 2nd, 2003, 01:37 PM

If you liked that, I know an experience you should try..
Bein g sticked, cuffed and stuffed.
W aving your dick at people is allways a good way

to find trouble- And sensible people don't shit
where they sleep.
W hat the hell is a "pulnum a " ?
nbk2000 September 2 2nd, 2003, 01:54 PM

Puln uma's are like M-80's on steroids...big ass firecrackers that go BOO M.
Only the stupid bird shits in its own nest. :)

W hat language is pulnum a? Spanish?
Google never heard of it-
vulture September 2 2nd, 2003, 04:02 PM

Isn't it supposed to say "polum na"?

Oh- Another name for triangle crackers.
(Apparently m e a n s " d o v e " i n S p a n i s h ) .
My respect for Total_CDRW 's posting skills
drops even lower...
nbk2000 September 2 2nd, 2003, 06:40 PM

How appropriate.
Dove...bird...shit...own nest...:D
Arkangel S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 05:44 PM

Palo ma is the Spanish for Dove
As in "Una Paloma Blancaaaaa, da dee dee da dee da"
Guess you have to be English and a certain age to understand that, no?
But anyway, you must be m ad CDRW. On the bright side, you'll probably grow up a whole lot faster if they throw you in
jail:rolleyes:
nbk2000 S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 07:07 PM

S o m ething would grow a whole lot, if he was tossed in jail, but I don't think it'd be his m aturity. ;) :p
NoltaiR S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 01:08 AM

C D R Ws spelling was throwing m e off when I was trying to picture what cra cker he was spea k i n g o f . A n d a l t h o u g h I d o
appreciate NBKs work to keep this forum a s p r o f e s s i o n a l as possible (which is probably the main reason it has been s o
prosperous), NBK did repeat the same misspelling.
On another note, there is a ra ther obvious line between being scientific a n d b e i n g a j a c k a s s . A n d , C D R W , I b e l i e v e t h a t y o u

know where you stand. If you are posting on th is forum it should be over the theory of explosives and weapons in a controlled
environm e n t ; a n d c o n t r o l l e d n e v e r m e a n s n e x t d o o r .

I don't m ess around with toys, so I don't have "Paloma" burned in my brain, otherwise I would have corrected his error. As it is,
I s i m p l y c o p y / p a s t e d h i s m i s p elling an d used it m yself. That's what I get for trusting a newbie to spell it rig ht. :rolle yes:
chokingvictim78 October 16th , 2003, 12:21 AM

I know this is going to sound utterly re tarded, but W HAT is this RTPB thing? It is m entioned in m any threads, but I have never
found any info as to what it m e a n s . . . I ' v e s e a r c h e d G o o g l e a n d f o u n d t o n s of acro nym s for som e invention of a new company,
but nothing seems applicable to its use here. This probably will attract tons of flam e s , b u t I h a v e n e v e r h e a r d / s e e n t h i s
before. This is in this thread because it contains the phrase in question.
Lil_Guppy October 16th , 2003, 01:56 AM

RTPB - Rules To Profit By

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > I need some feedback
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I have completed the intro for the new forum video and I need some feedback. Tell me what you think of it, what should be changed, what should be added, if I should just
get rid of it all together... It is a 7.84 MB download but if you simply click "open" then I guess you don't exactly have to worry about taking up the 8 megs on your hard drive.
Anyway, any feedback that I can get would be appreciated.
ALSO I'd like to ask if anyone has a problem with the Deftones. I'm thinking about using the song "My own summer" in the video. I know many forumites like techno and
many like harder music like that heard in the last video... I'm just having trouble finding a cross between the two kinds of music. If anyone can suggest some techno-ish metal
kind of stuff it would be helpful.
The intro can be found here (http://experi-mental.org/videos/intro.avi)
chemwarrior September 21st, 2003, 04:36 AM

All I can say is- WOW. its quite amazing. I, personally, like it the way it is. I dont think you should change ANY of it. It is all perfectly suiting. As for some music for it, the song
Feuer Frei! comes to mind. Its sorta techno/ heavy metal, and would be perfect for a pyro video.
Also, on a side note, where did you learn to do that??? That is really amazing work:) GREAT job!!
DBSP September 21st, 2003, 04:54 AM

I totally agree!!!, it's perfect. No need to change any of it.
And I must repeat the question about where you learned that?
Can't wait to see the actual video :)
irish September 21st, 2003, 05:10 AM

Just perfect I think, very well done.

www.particleillusion.com
go to the downloads page and download particle illusion 2.0 se or if you can find a working crack, go download particle illusion 3.0 demo
Its a special effects program that I've been messing around with for a few weeks now. The programs were used to make the special effects in all sorts of movies.
quoted from the particle illusion website... "particleIllusion has been used in many feature films including: How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, Final Destination II, Just Married, Biker
Boyz, Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever, Ghost Ship, Hart's War, Rollerball, Behind Enemy Lines, The Core, The Italian Job, and Torque. "
I had a sound file in there with the intro clip but it jumped the clip from 8 MB to 22MB so I took it off... how the hell a small sound clip added that much to the size I''ll never
know... The soundclip's nothing to miss though. Its pretty much just me saying thanks and then telling an imaginary K3Wl not to mix something, then you hear the bleat of a
lamb being torchered and then you hear an explosion (it all went along with the video clip). Nothing to miss though.
zeocrash September 21st, 2003, 06:29 AM

bloody hell, you ever thought of going for a job in the media industry.
hmm music, how about seek and destroy by metallica, or burn it up by offspring
mongo blongo September 21st, 2003, 03:12 PM

Very cool!!
I'm just having trouble finding a cross between the two kinds of music. If anyone can suggest some techno-ish metal kind of stuff it would be helpful.
My band just happens to be a techno-ish metal kind of music. Very heavy metal with industrial/jungle shit going on. It's good shit done in a proper studio on a full-on Pro-tools
setup. Might be what you are looking for. Then it could be a 100% Forum grown vid. :D
megalomania September 21st, 2003, 03:19 PM

If I was doing it, and this is entirely up to you though, I would cut out the beginning stuff until about 2 seconds before the rocket smoke trail part. Unless of course that
stuff doesnt add too much to the file size. Next, personally, I would like to see the rogue science logo clearly visible at least once, either before it starts spinning or
after the final grand explosion. I had trouble making out the words, fortunately I already know what it said, but other people may not get it. Other than my personal caveats it
was very nice, quite professional throughout.
THErAPIST September 21st, 2003, 03:58 PM

Hey mongo... I kinda like the idea of having a fully forum grown video. if at all possible pick out a good hard-core-ish song that has a techno twist and email it to me. A song
thats about 2 minutes or possibly 3 minutes would work best.
The intro smoke trails and stuff can be changed but they dont add much to the file... most of the files' weight comes from the explosion and the sparks. I'll edit it a bit and up
it again later. Glad you guys like it :D
Oh yea... just thought I'd tell ya... the smoke looking trail that comes up right before the roguesci logo goes across the screen... Those are faces not moke :eek:
mongo blongo September 22nd, 2003, 01:37 PM

Ok dude. I am going down the studio later so I will pick up the latest re-mastered versions. I am thinking of two songs which would be good for this. One is called "Eradicate
Desolate" which vocal wise would be best but another song called "Dogshit" is a better song and more of a cross between the metal and electronic sound. Anyways I will
encode it into an mp3 and e mail it to you when I get back.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > An
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Cyclonite September 2 2nd, 2003, 10:58 AM

C a n a n y o n e h e l p m e out, Iv looked everywhere for the weight of the AN in the pack 6x9, I think I found a good source for
anyone who cant walk into thier local Farmers Market and pick up a 50lb bag
http://www.first-aid-store.com /industrial/instant-cold-com presses.htm
DBSP September 2 2nd, 2003, 12:22 PM

If th e 6x9 is a "stand ard" bag then it's about 1 50g.
vulture September 2 2nd, 2003, 12:36 PM

Cyclonite, your URL is 404 because it links to "http:///". I guess you filled in the URL in th e description field...
Cyclonite S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 04:45 AM

Ok thanks, I fixed the link

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Help please
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chemwarrior September 2 2nd, 2003, 02:18 PM

Alrig ht, Ive a cquired a new HDD, 120gigs, Ive installed it, blah blah blah, and Ive now created an 'evidence' file using Encase.
P r o b l e m is, Ive never used the program before , so now I am , um m, lost. Im not exactly sure what the next thing Im s u p p o s e d
to do is.. if som eone could clue m e in, it would be MASSIVELY appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
chemwarrior September 2 2nd, 2003, 03:07 PM

Never m ind, I figured it out.
Now I have a nother question though- Is there any way to save files that have been overwritten? I m ean, ones where they sh ow
up with a little "x" on gray folder or "x" on man ila folder? I need to recover those files... som e o f t h e m are very im portant...
and now that Ive back things up, I should be able to if theres a way.... so ANY he lp would be appreciated
Nihilist September 2 2nd, 2003, 09:46 PM

Sorry, once a file is overwritten it is permanent(unless you are the NSA, and still, it isn't very easy even for them ).
chemwarrior S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 02:03 AM

Y e a h . . I f i g u r e d a s m uch:( dam nit, thats a lot of personal info a nd things down the drain:(
nbk2000 S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 03:50 AM

That's why you have to use multiple hard drives, m ultiple partitions, drive im ages, daily backup scripts, CD-R archiving, 24/7
firewall and anti-virus protection, regular m a n t a i n e n c e o f defragging and drive m onitoring, etc etc.
I learned the hard wa y too. You'll learn from this and be better for it. Then you too won't lose anything for years like I haven't.
:D
vulture S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 07:12 AM

That's why you have to use multiple hard drives, m ultiple partitions, drive im ages, daily backup scripts, CD-R archiving, 24/7
firewall and anti-virus protection, regular m a n t a i n e n c e o f defragging and drive m onitoring, etc etc.
W h o s a i d c o m puters were the infotainment centrals of the future? :rolleyes:
Anyways, Billie boy just spended an 8 figure sum to malaria research, so I guess we should shut up.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Sulfuric Acid Absolute Gravity
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Nehebkhau September 2 2nd, 2003, 07:32 PM

Hi, I called up a local battery business today and they told m e they'd sell m e a gallon of sulfuric battery acid for $4.00. They
couldn't give me an exact percent ratio of sulfu ric acid but they told me the absolute gravity of it was 1.265 . C o u l d s o m e o n e
plea se tell m e if there's a way to figure out the acids purity from this info? Thx in advance .
Nehebkhau September 2 2nd, 2003, 07:35 PM

*Specific Gravity* not absolute, srry about that yea i kno "shutup newbie"
kingspaz September 2 2nd, 2003, 07:57 PM

for fucks sak e, is it REALLY that difficult to read the rule s???? wh y didn't you post it in the water cooler where it belongs?since
i'm interested in how its calculated i'll m ove this to the water coo ler. i calculated a concentration of 31.5% so i'd be interested
to know who else agrees/disagrees sin ce i'm not at all sure if i'm right.
vulture S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 06:31 AM

King spaz, you calculated it? IMHO , you can't really calcu late it, because density usually isn't a linear correlation to
concentration.
DBSP S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 09:51 AM

I just had a look at the "acid table" that NBK posted a wile ago. At a specific gravity of 1,265 the cons is 29,35%.
kingspaz S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 01:45 PM

m y calculatio n was just a rough appoximation. i used 0.265/0.84 * 100 to arrive at m y answer. since thats effectively the m a s s
of acid extra in the solution for 1cc divided by 96% H2SO 4 ( a s s u m e d 1 0 0 % ) . i d o n't think my 'logic' even m a k e s s e n s e . d a m
bloo dy m aths to hell!
vulture S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 03:05 PM

W hile it may not be absolutely correct, I like the reason ing behind it. :D
It was a fairly good approxim ation ;)
Sparky S e p t e m b e r 2 3rd, 2003, 06:14 PM

I too once had this question :). W hich of course means it's in the archives and you could have sea rched for it :mad: .
http://chem dat.m erck.de/cdrl/services/labtools/en/index.html
DBSP S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 08:47 AM

I just realised I've m a d e a m istake wh ile lookin at NBKs acid table I look ed at the wring figures, th e c o n s a t 1 , 2 6 5 s h o u l d b e
36% by weight. Not 29,35% as I said before.
W h e n l o o k i n g a t t h e m erck acid table the density is set to 35,6% at the secific gravit of 1,265.
Sorry about that. :o

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > smuggling help
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rubberchiken September 23rd, 2003, 09:30 AM

Im soon taking a trip to the U.S (I live in Australia), and I was hoping to bring a few items back, namely a blowgun, a slingshot and a BB rifle. The first two arent a
problem, but getting a BB rifle past customs seems like it might be a bit of a problem. I already know which one I want: a UHC super 9. It comes in pieces; the main
ones are: the barrel, stock, internals, chamber (with spring), magazine/s and barrel holder.
If anyone has any ideas or tips, help would be greatly appreciated.
zeocrash September 23rd, 2003, 11:38 AM

hmm have you thought of setting up a mailbox, then mailing the pieces there individually. it may cost some but i dont imagine any problems with customs.

I wouldn't take my chances with the customs: the customs department was actually unwilling to let me receive some sample IC's, so I wonder what they'd think if I tried
sending gun parts through the mail!
You could try some other methods, though. If you have any unusual Electronic devices (most electronic medical devices, like blood pressure monitors work wonders for this),
you could open them up and stow the individual parts of the gun inside them. If you get any funny questions, insist that they are extremely sensitive precision devices, and
can't be opened up.
zeocrash September 23rd, 2003, 02:06 PM

although customs officers may not know the first thing about medical equipement, they do know what parts of a gun look like, and if you go through customs with a complete
gun in pieces, even if it is desguised, you will almost certainly be stopped.
sending it through the mail is deffinatly the way to smuggle things, as there are no export laws on gun barrels, or stocks. just remember the items must be sent seperatly
otherwise they will not get through.
i seem to remember that when buying flash powder components from overseas, if you buy the AL and the oxidiser together, they never arrive, but if you buy the al, and then
buy the oxidiser in a seperate order, it gets through

Originally posted by zeocrash
although customs officers may not know the first thing about medical equipement, they do know what parts of a gun look like, and if you go through customs with a complete
gun in pieces, even if it is desguised, you will almost certainly be stopped.
A little imagination will do wonders here: One must choose exactly how to disguise the parts of a gun effectively. I'm presuming the customs department uses X-ray machines.
In that case, you could wrap the parts in some heavy metal foil (would a couple of layers of Al foil be enough?) to make a kind of cylindrical looking object, which can be
placed among motors /pumps /pressure guages, or even PCB's for extra cover and "camouflage". Oh yeah, like you said, putting all the gun pieces in the same "case" is not a
good idea.
Arkangel September 23rd, 2003, 05:57 PM

T Pyro, Indian customs are so keen to inspect baggage as they are looking for stuff to steal.
Rubberchicken, I'd be curious what airline you fly with. Some will allow you to take replica/air weapons in your hold baggage. It's pretty unusual for baggage to be scanned at
the arrival airport, so if you were up front with the airline, you might just be able to carry it through in your luggage. If they stop you, just plead ignorance, if you're underage
you'll likely get away with it.
Security scanners will almost certainly query something if it's a solid looking object. Otherwise you could wrap an IED in lead to get it on the plane. I was stopped once because
I had some swimming mitts in my bag, that have 3 1lb lead weights in and they were suspicious of the lead.

Iv flown overseas with firearms on my checkon, it shouldnt be a problem

I'm more thinking that if he's flying with an Aussie airline, they may well know that these things are prohibited there and stop him taking it.

BB guns are illegal in Australia? I never knew it was that bad, well good luck. What if you fly an american airline back to Australia?
metal dragon September 24th, 2003, 05:58 AM

hey,
With all this anti-terrorism shit youd be extremely lucky if you got it through customs. I have no ideas on how to bypass this but dont get your hopes up.
john_smith September 24th, 2003, 10:24 AM

Use mail. If they discover the shit, at least you have a chance of not being nailed yourself.
Speaking about disguising gun parts, I used to know a guy really into custom cars who actually cast his own hood ornaments, door handles etc. According to him they were
made from a mix of some low melting point solders and he had learned the method from some obscure book which he had already lost by then. Now if it's good enough for
hood ornaments and such, its might be good enough for a fake machine part to hide your gun parts in as well...
4r50n September 24th, 2003, 10:52 AM

BB guns usually made from material that different from real gun(metal), i think this will help in smuggling the gun by placing them inside an electronic device, since i ve talk
with an operation divisi of an airline, the x ray machine recognising the object from its material and shape, correct me if i am wrong.

yes but if the operator sees an object that looks like a gun part, he's not going to let it through just because it dont appear to be gun metal.
besides i wouldn't risk taking gun parts in my carry on luggage, you'll be stopped and carted off to camp (insert phonetic letter here) as a terrorist in no time

From what I can make out, a "UHC Super9" is an Airsoft gun.
Unless Australian laws are very different to most, it will be classified as a toy and thus not be restricted. Still shouldn't go in your carry-on if you are sane, but should be OK in
main baggage.
Incoming baggage is rarely scanned, even if it is and they do pull you, once the case is opened and they see what it is you should be on your way with only a short delay - an
honest mistake on their part.
If it is restricted for some reason, or you were bringing in something else which you know is restricted, best to post it. Airport security is MUCH tighter than postal, especially it
it's groundbased (it'd go in a shipping container with thousands of other items). Plus, do you really want to be caught red handed with it? At best you could find yourself
temporarily detained, at worse you could be declared a terrorist.
Macgyver September 25th, 2003, 02:14 AM

I can agree on that postal security is much less than airport security.
I live in Sweden, where we have very strict gun laws - In fact we cannot even buy blank firing guns legally.
But ordering one by mail from another country seems to work just fine - Found a nice Beretta 92F in my mailbox the other day :D
As others have mentioned, if importing restricted items, try to spread the risk if possible. (Mail them in pieces, and never order ammo together with a gun for instance - All
packages classified as hazmat *will* get an inspection for sure!).
FragmentedSanity September 25th, 2003, 05:23 AM

Lo all :)
As an Aussie, I thought Id shed a little light on the legal situation in regards to firearms in this country.
I spose I could just cut to the chase and say that without a licence everything is illegal. Thats not really an exxageration either.
Airsoft weapons are Illegal. But sometimes get past customs if they are sent in packaging labeling a toy (it also helps if they look like a toy - clear plastic casing and such).
You need a licence to buy any kind of firearm. including air rifles and aair pistolos, regardless of power. Replicas and blank firing guns require a permit and an age of 18+ .
You need a licence for ammo, powder and primers. And yes - these days it includes air rifle pellets too.
Oh - and even if you do things legally and get a licence, most people are only allowed sporting rifles and shotguns - no semi's or even hi-cap mags! You can apply for a licence
to use thes but most people are refused. Oh and pistols need a special licence too, combined with regular competition at a pistol club.
Crossbows are even illegal in some states.
But the worst ting by far IMO is that having the licence/s gives the authorities an open invitation to searcg you place, so they can make sure everything is stored correctly. So
much for needing a warrant.
Im sure there is stuff Ive missed - but that should give you an idea as to what things are like downunder.
If any Aussise out there have tales they'd care to share regarding getting hold of either parts or kits or anything similar Id REALLY like to hear about it.
FS
rubberchiken September 25th, 2003, 06:10 AM

Thanks for the help. Although yes, i am underage, i think i'll send the gun back in pieces, sounds a bit safer than attempting to bring them on a plane. I'll check with my airline
( Qantas this time, i think ) though, i would make it easier, cheaper and faster than sending them back.
Macgyver September 25th, 2003, 11:12 AM

Oh lord..... That gives me a whole new perspective to the words "gun control".
And I thought we had a bad deal over here.....

As has been said, customs in australia are extremely tight. I recently came back from my trip to Eastern Europe. I was stranded at Heathrow for three days and they lost our
luggage, as they did just about everyone's (there was a strike).
Now, when they have thousands of bags coming into the country, you would assume that they probably wouldnt scan most of them, and they certainly wouldnt fuss over
insignificant shit.
Well, I had not even tried to bring anything in myself. All I had, was a tiny little toy gun that I was bringing back for my cousing. It shot little soft plastic/foam pellets that could
not penetrate a leaf (Seriously, I tried). It was clearly a toy. Guess what? They confiscated it.
Australia's firearm laws are insane. From my experience, it seems like anything that can propell anything more than 3m/s is an illegal firearm.
Hang-Man September 25th, 2003, 08:53 PM

I live in Canada and would say I have it just as bad. If I want to own a handgun I need the following things:
1.Pass a class/test on using guns in general.

2.Pass a class/test on using Handguns
3.Get my PAL (possession and acquisition license)-lets me buy sporting rifles and ammo, waiting period about 4 months
4.Get my restricted PAL - lets me buy a "restricted weapon'" this includes all handguns and some rifles - waiting period about 4 months
5.Get my permission to transport license- lets me move my gun from the store to my house/house to club. and nowhere else. firearm must also be stored under lock and key.
waiting period 2 months
6.Get my restricted permission to transport license- lets me take my gun onto a military range. The military are the only people with good ranges in Canada.
and before I can do any of that I must be at least 18. someone under 18 can't even buy ammo for their pellet gun or CO2 canisters. Im not kidding.
Damn this place.

While Australia's laws are insane regarding gun control, It's getting worse. Apparantly they've just declared (in victoria only as far as I can tell) swords to be illegal, they have to
be stored in the same manner as rifles / handguns - Locked safe bolted to the floor etc.
I've always wanted to legally own a few firearms, it's getting to be a worse idea every day. As soon as I have the money to spare, I'm going for it though.

Want to hear something really ridiculous? My friend wanted to import a 'Samurai' sword from the US, so he called up the police to ask if it was OK.
Police:" Does it have one sharp edge, or two?"

My Friend: "Only one."
Police:" Thats OK then, you can have your sword"
:confused:
I've seen this thing, 4 foot blade, razor sharp (one edge only:D ) and plenty lethal.
Realistically, if you are entitled to own a BB gun, you should be able to legitimately import the thing if you stay above board and go through the proper channels.
Axt September 26th, 2003, 12:23 AM

They tend to make crazy unenforcable laws just to pretend like they are doing something, youll find a lot of things can be legally made but not bought, such as shanghais/
slingshots because they cant charge a 5 year old with a rubber band and a fork of a tree, so they have to make it legal if its homemade as a "toy".
Evan007 October 24th, 2003, 10:09 AM
I am a licenced shooter in Australia and let me tell you, come to Austraia, enjoy the scenery, people, sights and scenes, But if you want to have anything to do with firearms,
GOOD LUCK!
Unlicenced people arent legally allowed to shoot or even TOUCH a firearm no matter who is supervising, serious. You cant even touch an air rifle without a licence. This is a C
class licence, the lowest easiest to get licence, It doesnt allow any Handguns AT ALL. An A Class licences allow everything including bren guns but to get this licence you need to
have super special job requirements eg Presidential security - unnattainable to everyone except for around 1000 people in Oz. B class is easier to get but still pretty
unnattainable to regular joes.
And now the latest developement......All high caliber handguns are completely banned except for law enforcement. High caliber being anything above .38 calbre. To have a
Handgun licence at all, you must be in a regular club, and go through hell to prove it, in experiences close to me,(friends etc)
Sorry for being OT
Anyway, some friends of mine just came back from japan with everything from knives to brass knuckles (illegal weapons in need of a prohibited weapons permit) all in
luggage, wrapped in excessive amounts of spare change. Extremely excessive amounts actually. Maybe not an option since US currency is almost gold compared to AUS$
although the AUS$ is pretty strong at the moment, still its an option for smaller parts.
Why not disguise the barrel as a hinge or support bar in the back of a bag or suitcase?
I think Shipping is by far your best bet though
I hope all my info is accurate though, feel free to correct my mistakes.

Evan, I think that the license class system you are talking about is only for your state, we have a totally different system where I live, A category A license is the easiest to get
and allows repeating rimfires/ shotguns only (but no pump shotguns), a cat. B license allows repeating centrefires in addition to that but is harder to obtain, a cat. C or D
license allows pump shotguns and semi auto weapons but is almost impossible to obtain (you have to be a farmer, pest controller, or police orificer), and a cat. H license allows
hanguns but is also highly restricted (you have to be a police orificer or attend a pistol club at least once a month and prove that you attended).
I think it is totally idiotic that semi auto rimfires are banned from the general public while Australia has one of the world's worst feral rabbit problems and the rabbits cost the
economy hundreds of million a year. :rolleyes: :confused: :mad:
IIRC, a member here (I can't remember who though) managed to get a gun into Australia by totally dismantling it, mixing the parts up with about 3 times their volume of
other random machine parts and sharp pieces of scrap metal, putting the whole lot into a 25L drum, pouring in dirty black oil until it covered the parts, labelling it as "DIY
Robotics Parts", and then having it shipped to Australia from the US.
Even if the scanner did show something suspicious, nobody at customs is going to want to rummage around in a drum full of sharp bits of metal and dirty engine oil. It is still a
hell of a lot of trouble to go to just to get an illegal gun into Australia (You would have to pay for a flight to the US, get the weapon(s), pack them up, ship them, and then fly
back), but it might be worth it for a few SMGs or suchlike.
Are there any chemicals that are used for protecting metals from corrosion that are also toxic? If there are then you could pack the parts in that and put a big label on the lid
that says "DANGER : Packed in (insert chem name here), highly toxic, DO NOT OPEN WITHOUT PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT".

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Question on Forum History (RTC)
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Having seen RTC's signature, and wondering what the deal was, I have UTFSE'd for more info on the whole affair. I know some big incident happened involving him/her, I was
wondering what the story was. I apparently wasn't around for that bit of history. Anybody willing to fill me in?
nbk2000 September 23rd, 2003, 07:04 PM

We don't talk about the crazy relatives we keep in the basement. ;)
kingspaz September 23rd, 2003, 07:35 PM

or the kids we killed because they were born retarded.
blindreeper September 23rd, 2003, 11:09 PM

If you search really good I think you will turn up a thread about the whole incident. I am not entirely sure if there was only one incident but I only know of one.
Anyone 'older' care to tell us if it was just the one incident?
That is worded poorly but I don't want to give it away...

The key phrase there is "search really good" meaning go through LOTS of posts, when one sentence from an older member could explain.
If you are not telling me because of NBK and Kingspaz's reluctance to tell me, then why hint at your knowledge?
Or. Anyone could just email me. Or not. I'm just curious, I have no burning desire to know here.
A-BOMB September 24th, 2003, 12:37 AM

The Tratior is just what it implies he tried this and that to get brownie point with the mods and admins, and then impersonated them etc etc etc etc.....Banned/HED/Tratior. And
thats all you should need to answer you question. So don't ask about it again.
NoltaiR September 24th, 2003, 12:43 AM

I actually thought he was a cool guy (before the 'incident'). He helped a bit with a website that I tried getting up and going but due to lack of time, the project was abandoned
(though I hope it can be revived someday). He also had the name of 'martin' on the elite forum. He usually posted lots of pics which was nice and after his account was given
the HED I spoke to him on msn messenger a few months after words. I never quite caught the whole story but he did tell me that he had access to the mods only section.
Although he had left the forum for a while he eventually just got a new username (which I don't quite remember). I even had his address at one point in time....
p.s. I work for radioshack and I notice that the newbie poster couldn't come up with his own signature.. but then again I guess neither can I :)

Even so, I don't think the second line is standard Rat Shack fare .
And alright, discussion closed, he was an asshole, end of story.

i believe RTC's last username was eliteforum.
it's odd how 2 users with similar names, both have gone down in the history of the forum (rc, and RTC)

That's a pretty loose correlation :)
"he did tell me that he had access to the mods only section"
Before a cat gets amongst the pigeons in regards to this, shitHED was also a persistant liar, which is in fact why he was originally banned.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > The Great Google Hunt
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nbk2000 September 23rd, 2003, 07:27 PM

We've been slowly growing by word of mouth for the last few years, but recently we've been getting a lot of new members, at a
rate much higher than usual.
After some investigation, we've come to find that most of these newbies are coming here from having found us through
Google (www.google.com) searches related to E&W. This is possible because we've made our threads searchable to search
engines, whereas before (using UBB), that wasn't possible.
So...what I'd like to see is what kind of searches people are finding us through. I've been finding the Forum in searches you
wouldn't even expect us to be in and I'd like to see what other topics are finding us by.
Try to be original, try to find something obscure, the fewer results and the higher rated the Forum is in those results, the
better. Searches that pull us up on page 5 aren't any good, unless the previous five pages were all .mil pages, or if we are the
only site listed that provides details compared to fluff on the more higher rated sites.
Anyone using any staff names/RTPB/roguesci/etc in their searches is automatically disqualified for being too dull to figure out
what qualifies as too obvious.
To start you off, here's a google search (http://www.google.com/search?

q=%2248+laws+of+power%22+download&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) that returns us being number two. :D
We used to be #2 out of only two returns, #1 being the manufacturer themselves, for the term "shockwave refraction tape",
but now that's gone. :confused:
Provide a link if you can, or the precise search string you used.
There's no prize except recognition of being a good searcher. :)
Now get Googling!
Rhadon September 23rd, 2003, 07:56 PM

I just tried a search for "explosives ebook", it gave us place one and two. Rank six for "explosives download" and rank one for
"explosives propellants download". "k3wl bombers" gives us place two :D.
firebreether September 23rd, 2003, 09:35 PM

#1- improvised claymore
#2- military napalm
#1- improvised mortar
#5- improvised cruise missile
#3- improvised weapons
#4- improvised automatic weapons
#1- improvised guns automatic
#1- improvised sniper rifle
#4- improvised throwing knives
basically, if you search for improvised + nearly any type of weapon, you will find the forum.
nzrockets September 23rd, 2003, 10:14 PM

i found the forum from one of the members sites but when searching for pentaerythritol sources
Rouge sci came up :
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=pentaerythritol+sources&spell=1
A-BOMB September 23rd, 2003, 10:39 PM

Putting in (insert chemical here) nitrate explosives brings up the forum every time. How to make PETN also works, the same
with det cord. Them chemistry of homemade explosive gets on the first, second and theird pages. And with any search we are
usually the top 3 or 4 for any thing improvised.

I've done some extensive googling to get a feel for our standing...and I think it's pretty good! :D
We rank very well for CW related matters, especially for preparation/weaponization/precursors. :)
The more specific the search, the better the results for our site.
+++++++++++++++++++
improvised PDM
#11 of 111
improvised PDM mine

#3 of 22
teflon incendiary
#4 and 5 of 924, with #4 being my CBU bomblet.
incendiary pellets
#6 is my CBU bomblet, with #4 being Janes! Boy, I'm running in high circles now!
sarin "phosphorus trichloride"

#6 and 7 of 680
"mustard gas" synthesis

#16 (by yours truly) out of 1,610
"mustard gas" synthesis thiodiglycol

#16 out of 215
"mustard gas" antifreeze

#19 of 145 (higher than LANL!)
"mustard gas" "ethylene glycol"

#2 and 9 of 1,020, though #2 is a copy of our #9 result on some leeches site. :mad:
organophosphate pesticide convert weapon

#1 of 50 :D
organophosphate pesticide weapon

#19 of 799
convert pesticides to weapons (no quotes)

#1 and 2 of 4,700 Woo Hoo! Though TOTSE is #7..what the fuck?
dusty mustard silica weaponization

#5 of 17
mustard weaponization
#5 of 1,570
dusty mustard weaponization

#6 of 92
dusty agent weaponization

#1 of 112. The cia is #3, RAND #7, and Princeton University #10. Kick ass :p
fentanyls lethal weapon

#19 of 129
synthetic opiates lethal weapon

#9 of 203 (much improved)
synthetic opiates weaponization

#7 of 101
white phosphorus bones

#19 of 20,000
white phosphorus grenade

#2 of 3,130
white phosphorus distilling

#10 of 1,180
distill white phosphorus

#2 of 613
sarin distill
#1 and 2 of 130
DFP weaponize
#3 of 6
"b.c. saunders" sarin

#2 of 5
"b.c. saunders" phosphate

#6 of 17
"b.c. saunders" DFP

#3 of 5
fluoroacetates
#3 of 359
fluoroacetates weapon
#2 and 3 of 21, just below www.us-israel.org. Hehehehe...I'm right behind you jews!
fluoroacetates weaponize
#2 of 5, between the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and Princeton Univeristy.
fluoroacetates fluoride
#3 and 4 of 50, just below the National Institute of Health.
fluoroacetates poison
#5 and 6 of 45
Fluoroethanol
#12 of 282
Fluoroethanol poison
#1 of 9
fluoroacetamide weapon
#3 of 56
PFIB teflon burn

#6 of 27, just below a .mil site.
PFIB teflon synthesis

#5 of 35
PFIB teflon weapon

#10 of 46
chloropicrin weaponization
#1 and 2 of 56
chloropicrin "nitric acid"

#10 of 1,520
chloropicrin nitromethane
#6 of 780
trichloronitromethane
#3 of 1,240
chloropicrin patent
#3 and 4 of 543
chloropicrin weaponization
#2 and 3 of 56
phosgene weaponization
#1 and 2 of 520
phosgene oxime weaponization

#1 and 2 of 92. RAND is #3.
weaponization CW
#11 of 1,470
hydrogen cyanide distill

#9 of 416
hydrogen cyanide weaponize

#12 of 216
zyklon b hydrogen cyanide chloropicrin

#2 of 25
cyanide urea prepare

#5 of 1,200
cyanide cyanuric urea

#12 and 13 of 487
DBSP September 24th, 2003, 08:38 AM

Just as the rest of you I have also found links to the forum quite often on google.
And as said it has often popped up while I have been using quite odd searches.
I've found it a couple of times while searching for SCs and EFPs, same thing while searching for calcium nitrate explosives.
And the hits seem to be coming at a more frequent basis than before too. :)

The Google spider finds only text that can be accessed by guests of the forum.
These are the posts in the archives and the 2 sections "High Explosives" and "Improvised Weapons".
All other sections (incl. Water cooler) are closed for guests (and spiders).
Is this wanted or is it a mistake?

i was researching for the chemical engine sabotage topic last week and i decided to search for some info on gelatinising petrol
on google
i entered "+acetone +petrol +gel" found nothing on the first page, so i moved to page 2 and found an interesting looking link,
it turned out to head straght back to the forum :(
so much for looking elsewhere

The word "megalomania" now has me at #1. I finially beat out all the psychological definitions :)
We still don't rank to high on the most common explosives, RDX, TNT, HMX, and the like. We are there, but not so high. I
consider this a good thing, it is best to be found searching for the rare stuff, it's a better target audience.
Flake2m September 24th, 2003, 10:44 PM

I searched my nick "Flake2m" on Google
there were 9 results.
The link (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=Flake2m&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=) shows what they are.
but Rogue Sci got 1/3 of the results. Myabe I am not devoted enough?

I was glad to find 'explosives and weapons forum' brought up the main forum and the archives ok.
Nitric acid manufacture (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=nitric+acid+manufacture&meta=) was

terrible, we lost out to totse, and madscience.
NBK, you need a homepage or something, as 'NBK' brings up a list of sad paintball teams and gaming groups.
A search for my member name (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=GibboNet&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=) Was

divided between this and another forum I spend a lot of time on, with the first result being my hompage.... I was quite
impressed.
I'll think of some more obscure search threads later.

Searching for:
efp copper platter
brings up my "Rotational Casting of EFP Platter" at #6 of 98, with LANL at #4. :)
Oh, and my "TIny SC Liner Cone" topic is #12. :D
Oddly enough, there's several listing for "floral displays". :p Which I mentioned using as a cover story for ordering copper
cones. ;)
Anyone using any staff names/RTPB/roguesci/etc in their searches is automatically disqualified for being too dull to figure out
what qualifies as too obvious.
I should have amended that to include using your own member name since that'd obviously pull up the Forum. :rolleyes:
I'm not concerned if TOTSE gets higher rated on NA. As far as I'm concerned, that's stone-age technology compared to our
nano-tech. :p
And, yes, I know that using just NBK pulls up any number of paintball teams, haX0rZ, symphonies, Quake clans, etc. I keep a
low profile on the net, just as in life, only popping up to attack k3wlz and lames who defile our Forum on other sites. ;)

Um, well, for the record, I looked up my name a week ago. I just wanted to share in my happiness.
Piranha October 4th, 2003, 09:29 AM

I came across this site while searching for "Improvised Caltrops", and it seems as though most of my web searches will bring
up an archived topic from here. I initially heard of the site while hanging around Bombshock.com, but didn't join here for a few
months.
ImakeBOOM October 5th, 2003, 06:37 AM

To start you off, here's a google search (http://www.google.com/search?

q=%2248+laws+of+power%22+download&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) that returns us being number two. :D
After reading the contents of 48 laws of power, I decided to get a copy. I thought, as a gesture of my apprecation for the
forum's existance, I could scan it in and make a pdf from it. However, "Scanning books with an improvised planetary camera"
under tutorials doesn't appear to have a link. Perhaps it's ctrl-c's ftp, and I don't have access to it. Whatever the case, I have
word with OCR installed, acrobat, and a willingness to contribute to the forum.
Piranha: I came upon the site looking for improvised caltrops too, ... and pmjb. (I'd had enough of the Anarchist Crapbook)
Chade October 8th, 2003, 08:59 PM

I was trying to find a list of the most toxic substances, and searched yahoo (I don't use google) for 'most toxic substance'.
This brought a page about various things claimed to be the most toxic, including plutonium, ricin, dioxin and botulin.
I searched for 'most toxic substance plutonium ricin dioxin botulin' hoping for some sort of list of toxic substances and got the
same website, and the forum at number two as the only two hits.
Jhonbus October 9th, 2003, 07:25 PM

Well we rank 1 of 8330 for "Improvised chemical weapons"... Nice to know where all those naughty terrorists will be going for
their info.

How many hits a day does this site get?
xxl October 10th, 2003, 04:20 AM

@ Chade,Yahoo is the most hollow search engine especially,the most swallowing Pageeater .I never believe that you can get
intelly results .My Sites were also vanished ,but present in the first rows of Goolge.

Google is the only true search engine!
Yahoo returns fuck all results, altavista returns nothing but chaff...
Hits:
Taking the month just gone (september) for example:
We got an average of 6300 hits per hour (15700 max) and an average of 151000 hits per day (185000 max). Total hits for
the month was over 4.5 million.
And it's rising month on month...
vulture October 10th, 2003, 01:45 PM

If you want a good metasearchengine try: www.ixquick.com
It's very selective though, it won't turn up many hits.
Wild Catmage October 13th, 2003, 03:08 PM

What the crap? We lost out to Totse on "Acetone Peroxide". :mad:
root October 13th, 2003, 11:57 PM

well ic ant remember how i found the site, but did use google.
:p
I found that tot** site first, but that was a bunch of bullshit, I must say. The general atmosphere here is much more mature
and people know what their talking about.
I dont really post much as i cant really offer anything informative that people dont already know, but this site should do much
better than any other site i've found just based on the info here.

I searched netscape for " ammonium carbonate synthesis" and this was result number 9:
Megalomania's Precursor Section Part 1

... ammonium sesquicarbonate; carbonic acid, ammonium salt; carbonic acid, diammonium salt; crystal ammonia;
diammonium carbonate; hartshorn. Synthesis: Coming soon ...
http://roguesci.org/megalomania/synth/synthesis1.html

also number 54;
# Megalomania's Method of Making Petrin

... There are many different methods concerning the synthesis of Petrin, but ... all of the solvent extracts and neutralize them
with ammonium carbonate until neutral ...
http://roguesci.org/megalomania/explo/petrin.htm
xyz October 25th, 2003, 11:12 AM

I always seem to get at least one result for the forum or Mega's site whenever I search for the name of a chemical or the
synthesis of a chemical.
We need to sort out this totse problem, we can't have them higher on the list for "Acetone Peroxide" now can we? I am 99%
sure that the people at totse have never even looked for the chems for AP, let alone made it. They are happy with just being
able to brag to people that "1 K/\/0 \/\/ H0\/\/ 70 /\/\4k3 1337 K3\/\/1 80/\/\z \/\/17h 0r4/\/g3 Ju1(3"
Translation for those of you who don't speak k3\/\/l : "I know how to make elite cool bombs with orange juice"
I actually remember someone (who was promptly banned) saying something along those lines here, I think it was caused by
the scene in fight club where Tyler Durden says that you can make napalm from orange juice.
thrall October 26th, 2003, 08:30 PM

Here is something unusual. I found this site while searching "White resistance manual" and roguesci is listed second.Though
it's an archive file but I went to the main site and read high explosives section (it's visible without registering).And of course
registered.
-----------------------------------------
EDIT
normally google corrects my spelling mistakes.yet here is the site.
here (http://www.google.co.in/search?q=white+resistance+manual&ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search)

There is a chance that it just might help if you told us the site's address...
EDIT: By this site, are you referring to the forum? I was under the impression that you were referring to another site but had
not left the address.

Well, "hydrozinium" gets us 4th out of four, and "hydrozinium azide" gets us third out of three.
Did anyone find out anything more about that stuff?
thrall September 7th, 2004, 06:17 AM

Not in the spirit of the thread but too funny to leave.
"masturbation dementia" gives us #1 of 2. :p
FUTI September 7th, 2004, 11:33 AM

Finally I have remembered the way I end up here ( the last time:)). Search the google with ammonium azide...this forum is
the hit number 6.

We're #1 now for masturbation dementia! :D
#1! #1! #1! :rolleyes:

Thrall, that does then beg the question, why were you searching for 'masturbation dementia'?!?!
thrall September 10th, 2004, 12:53 AM

It's there in front page of the forum. It's about previous FTP.
"the poor chap must have had masturbation dementia.......". I didn't get the term exactly so I searched and even I was
surprised that "the forum" was #1 in results.
Liam C. January 20th, 2006, 11:14 AM

I realize this is an old thread, but it seemed the most logical place to put this. If the link works in this post, the article below
describes Googles refusal to divulge data to the Feds regarding search requests....
Of course the Feds say it's only to help protect 'the chidren' from online porn...:rolleyes:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060120/ap_on_hi_te/google_records

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Your Forum m e m b e r n u m b e r
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Bert S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 02:38 AM

Just looked at the FTP applica tion.
W here is my "Forum m e m b e r n u m b e r " l i s t e d ?
Can't figure that one out...
mrloud S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 03:31 AM

Click on the link to your user profile. Your user ID is in the UR L that is ca lled up. Your user ID is 3260.

U m m... The last four digits in the URL when I pull up my
profile are 2274. Now I'm e v e n m o r e c o n f u s e d .
====================================
Just did it ag ain... And a different num ber was appende d to the URL. Don't think that's it, Mr. Loud.
blindreeper S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 04:31 AM

W ell apart from the FTP application form your mem ber num ber doesn't really have m uch use. And since C trl_C is, well has not
p o s t e d i n a l o n g t i m e I don't think anyone but the older m e m bers will have FTP access. W hich is a real sha m e . . . s o m any go o d
books :(

NEW SFLASH:
The FTP is down for the interim, so don't bother with applying because nobody ha s a c c e s s a n y m o r e .
And you're 3260.
Bert S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 01:30 PM

OK, I'll quit worrying about FTP access...
I just looked at the tutorials. They're out of comm i s i o n t o o ?

T h e m e m ber num ber was som ething used by the old ubb software, and that has no place now. THe tutorials are actually not
done yet.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > forum file sharing
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yesterday i was searching around looking for inspiration for my computing A2 project, when i finally ended up on the ftp thread
in forum m atters. i noticed that currently there were several FTP servers. suddenly it struck m e, i know what i can do , i can
m ake a file sharing n etwork for the forum.
so i've decided to try and m ake a file sharing setup for the forum for my A2 project
the basic idea is this. to link all the ftp servers together, while also allowing m e m b e r s t o h ost files, this way we can reduce the
l o a d on the ftp servers. using a file sharing system will also have legal benefits relating to warez software.
the file syste m will be private. there will have to be a "server", to store account and logon details a nd details of who's online.
i'm posting this because i'm wandering what the forum would like from this system, and if anyone has any ideas / thoughts on
this matter.
Nihilist S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 07:00 PM

I t s o u n d s a w e s o m e, and if you like, I will help you code it.
blazter S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 11:09 PM

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, why not just use Direct Connect for filesha ring? One person could set up a server, put a
password on it, and simply rotate the password on say a weekly basis. There is a private direct con nect hub at m y university,
thats ip limited to about 4 oth er local universities, and its possible to find just about anything on there. DC++ is probably the
best client, b ut I am not too fam iliar with all the server choices.
Nihilist S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 01:39 AM

that sounds good in theory, except that it lacks the won derful anonymity that P2P provides.

www.freenetp roject.org
A n o n y m ous, untracable, m ulti-proxy routing, encrypted, and distributed. :) No central servers to tap into.
Or search google using:
ectp
for encrytped FTP clients and servers.

d a m n, there goes m y coursework
blazter, the reason i'm not using a dcc connection is that it would give m e nothing to do for m y coursework, aslo with a direct
connection, everyone connects through the server, whereas with m y idea, the server just acts like a phonebook, where clients
c a n g e t ad r e s s e s of o t he r m achines to connect to.
a n n o n i m i t y s e e m s t o b e a p r o b l e m with m y ide a, but as far as i can see, it would be no le s s a n o n y m o u s t h an the current ftp
server. the m ain problem of h aving total annonim ity on a system like this is that there is no way to regulate who is accessing
it.
the ip addresses would be safe as they would be stored in an array rathe r than a file, so the list would dissapear when the
program was closed.
encryption of data, m ulti - pro xy routing, untracable well you've got m e there currently, bu t i'm sure i can work it in som ehow,
eventually

Now that sounds like a wonderful idea!
blazter S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 04:30 PM

Free net would probab ly the best way to rem ain anonymous, however with freenet there are still "node" servers which cache a
good portion of the network's data. These nodes all have IP's that can be discovered, and if enough are shut down then the
network goes down. A better solution than a central server to be sure, bu t not completely bulletproof. Regardless of whateve r
network you set up there still has to be a way to let clients connect, and this access point will have an ip. If the powers that be
want to dismantle the network they just shut down the access po ints.
Storing ips in an array may help a bit, but rem e m ber it is still ve ry possible to find those ips with a packet sniffer, or if you
want a challe nge, though debugging the program with som ething like soft ice.
The best route would probably to m odel your program after what freenet has done, but as things are now, I'll argue that true
a n o n y m ity with regard to P2P is impossible. Sure it is possible to encrypt and such, but there is still an access point somewhere
which has an ip through which the naughty data is publicly accessable. Never the less, encryption and decentralizing the data
the way freenet does it is FAR better than m ost other P2P applications out now.
A-BOMB S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 05:39 PM

I f a n y b o d y h a s t h e P M J B ( P o o r Mans Jam e s B o n d ) s e t a n d K a z z a o r s o m e thing sim ilar that would allow m e to download them
I would be greatly in your dept. Because m y bitch sister just refo rm a t e d t h e C D - R W that m y set wa s o n s o s h e c o u l d p u t s o m e
of her shit m usic and garbage on :m a d :

it apears both ideas have their security weakne s s e s , a l t h o u g h t h e I P s c o u l d b e d i s c o v e r e d in m y system b y u s i n g a p a c k e t
sniffer. the idea of having a central hub that links everyone together has the fundim ental weakness that th e hub co u l d b e
c o m p r o m ised and all trafic passing through the access point could be watched/recorded.
besides it's not as though hiding your ip address is going to stop any law enforcem ent agency from throwing your ass into
camp (insert phonetic letter here).
nihilist, e-m ail m e a b out helping with the code,

Ah, but with freenet you only need 1 node address to get the wh ole thing going. How hard would it be to po s t t h e n o d e
addresses on popular IRC channels or mass e-mail it? Nil.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Greatest Disappointments
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Axt September 24th, 2003, 09:13 PM

Heres a thread for the things that should have worked, got you all excited but ended in complete Disappointment. What hasnt worked for you? perhaps someone can see the
problem or at least not repeat it.
Heres mine -
Drawing (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/shaped115mm.jpg)
Components (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/shapedcomponents.jpg)
Back view (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/shapedback.jpg)
Front view (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/shapedfront.jpg)
Setup (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/shaped.jpg)
A large shaped charge, martini glass liner with a diametre of 115mm. 550ml charge of NM/amine, 2.5ld standoff. Special cap to compress the liquid so there would be no
bubbles, all made as clean as possible, even painted because it looked so nice.
Of course the NM fails to detonate, with the detonator spreading 70-80 AUS$ worth of components over the ground, un' bloody believable. Only time ive had NM/amine fail to
detonate, though it was a different brand, maybe "watered down" I dont know but ive got bloody 5 litres of it sitting here that I havnt cared to try again with.
Axt December 10th, 2003, 03:20 AM

Heres another one, Plasticine Lined Charges! .
Instead of using a metal liner I formed a solid cone out of plasticine with the hope that it would show at least some sc effect. This would be useful as you could form any shape
you wanted, testing for optimising different effects before forming the final liner from metal.
But alas, the charges showed no cutting performance at all. The explosive used was all the scraps and leftovers I had lying around, in order of quantity ETN/NM/AN/LON/PETN/
NC mixed to the consistancy of snot and poured into the charge, the explosive performance should have shown any sc effect is any was to be had.
There is a movie here (http://geocities.com/roguemovie3/) but dont expect much.
EP December 10th, 2003, 04:06 AM

15lbs of AN and a failed det. :(
For a number of stupid reasons I fucked it up and decided to try it anyway, so I pretty much expected it to fail but it was still sad. Here is stuff on it along with more of a
recent adventure:
http://krimzonpyro.com/ep/mediadir/03party.html
A-BOMB December 10th, 2003, 11:21 AM

I have great disappointments a whole lot, You ever have this you try out a new comp/devise and it works great when your testing it without an anybody but yourself watching
but then you get with your pals and go out to reak so havok on some old farm equipment and the like and you light the fuse, start the camera and retreat to safe distance and
the fuse burns down and nothing happens or just a little puff of smoke, and then you just feel like a kewl. Hell I just had a real dangerous failure of my AR-7 rifle this just a
few days ago.
scarletmanuka December 10th, 2003, 09:52 PM

There is nothing worse than a device not working the first time you try to show of to your friends. I remember in my (not so) younger years when I first perfected the salute, I
would make hundreds (maybe tens) of these and not one of them failed. The first time I tried to show my friends I only had one left and the crap fuse went out at the top of
the salute. It took a long time to redeem myself of that one.
Ammonal December 11th, 2003, 12:49 AM

I have to agree with the whole 'works well for you but fails when your mates are around', I tested a 500gram charge of ANFO detonated with 3grams of pressed HMTD; it went
great lifted a massive pile of dirt and dust and rubble. I did the same process again except the second time my dad was along to see what made the first big bang he has
heard in ages. Only I did a bit bigger one 2kg ANFO mix, 6grams of HMTD, the whole thing in a PVC tube and BOOF small cloud of ANFO particles and cracked PVC pipe. Just
cos my old man was there I reckon.
spydamonkee December 11th, 2003, 06:30 AM

ANFO has also been the cause of somebody's greatest failure's... Too many to count really, but all up I would say 20+ kg's of fertilizer wasted :(
Mind you half of that was Urea when somebody was sold the wrong fertilizer
Once you master the beast though there is nothing stopping you!
Remember that its only fertlizer and its shit cheap to make so go for overkill!
Eg: Less than 10kg use 500grams of APAN booster & use another 500grams for other 10kg
Whats worse using slightly more of a cheap and relativly safe product or having the whole lot strewn everywhere with dissapointed onlooker's & a shamed blaster!

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Germ a n d e m o g r o u p
"Farbrausch" kicks ass !
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View Full Version : German demo group "Farbrausch" kicks ass !
jelly S e p t e m b e r 2 4th, 2003, 10:02 PM

D o y o u a l s o l i k e t h e s e n o n c o m m ercial graphic dem os?
My favourite is "Farbrausch". This Germ an group has wo n severa l d e m o c o m p e t i t i o n s ,
m ostly in the section "dem o size < 64 kilobyes!".
Here you can download the brand-new 45 KB dem o c o d e d b y t h e d e m o d ivision of the

well-known cracker group "Razor 1911" (looks like borin g stuff from the 80s - no new idea s):
ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2003/evoke03/in64/elektrofunk%5Erazor.zip
Here a new 64 KB "Fa rbrausch" demo (2. place)

ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/demos/groups/farb-rausch/fr-030_candytron_final.zip
And here the incredible "Farbrausch" winner dem o with ~8 MB: :D

ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/demos/groups/farb-rausch/fr-025-final2.zip
a_bab S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 10:46 AM

Yeah Jelly, glad to se e I'm no t the only one interested in dem o scene on this board. Farbrausch are the be st IMHO. I like very
m uch the techniques they use t o g e t t h e d e m o s o s m all. Person ally I like very much This demo (h ttp://www.scene.org/
file_dl.php?url=ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2003/breakpoint03/in64/fr-030_ca ndytron_final.zip&id=192414) (called
candytron ak a F R - 0 3 0 )
The best demos site is Scene Org (http://www.scene.org) .
D o y o u r e m e mber "Second reality" ? (by FC):D
jelly S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 08:45 PM

D o y o u r e m e mber "Second reality" ? (by FC)
No, I had left the scene a few month b efore.
But I rem ember that "Future Crew" were the coder gods at this time.
I especially liked the "worldvector" part of their demo "unreal".:)
A-BOMB S e p t e m b e r 2 6th, 2003, 09:46 AM

The one they did fr-08(The Product) was the one I liked the m o s t t h e o t h e r o n e s n o t s o m uch.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > A few questions regarding PGP
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Just wanted to ask a few questions regarding the use of PGP and this forum. I did have a search about the forums, but couldn't find much, but just in case I missed something,
I placed this thread in the Water Cooler (probably belongs here anyway :p). Anyway, to the questions. I was wondering if it is acceptable to post a reply in an open thread that
is encrypted. For example in the other thread of mine about the electronic timer, could I post an encrypted reply to one of the participants, or is that generally considered a
forum no-no. Also, what quallifies as a valid post in the PGP Messages For NBK. Obviously one wouldn't post an encrypted message to NBK asking him how the weather is over
there. Finally, what is the process for distributing a new PGP public key. I do recall reading that NBK will only accept new keys if they are signed by the old key. Is this a forum
wide method, or just up to the individuals concerned. Basically I am interested in all the little forum do's and dont's so I can survive for the longest possible time (:p) and
hopefully bring more sound and valid information into this forum. Thanks.

[/quote]
Anyway, to the questions. I was wondering if it is acceptable to post a reply in an open thread that is encrypted. For example in the other thread of mine about the electronic
timer, could I post an encrypted reply to one of the participants, or is that generally considered a forum no-no.
[/quote]
NO. That's what e-mail is for. Encrypting a reply is pointless anyways, since the Vbulletin board software rearranges the PGP message into a form that does not decrypt if you
try to copy/paste it from the tread.
ONLY if you can view the text in the editing window is it possible to do so, and only the person who posted it (or staff) can do that, no one else. It used to be possible for
someone other than the poster to open the editing window on someone elses posts (thought they couldn't change it) so it could have been done under UBB.
The other way would to as an attachment but, again, only staff can do that. :)
Also, what quallifies as a valid post in the PGP Messages For NBK. Obviously one wouldn't post an encrypted message to NBK asking him how the weather is over there.
Again, that's what e-mail is for. forumscan@yahoo.com The "PGP Messages for NBK" thread is not for just anyone to jump into, and don't bother asking why. If you have to
ask, you don't need to know.
Finally, what is the process for distributing a new PGP public key.
You've got a sig line, don't you? And your PGP key is in it, correct? Question answered. :p IF you mean keyservers, reading the fuckin' manual that comes with PGP.
I do recall reading that NBK will only accept new keys if they are signed by the old key. Is this a forum wide method, or just up to the individuals concerned.
That's just me, but it's prudent paranoia.
Say someone got arrested by the JBTs. They find out that this person has been using PGP for all their messages with you, so they can't read them, and dude isn't giving up his
passphrase. After using dictionary attacks against his passphrase, trying to brute-force it is deemed unlikely to succeed.
So...they simply create a new key, tell you they lost the old one, and could you please refresh their memory on your last discussion 'cause they can't read their old message
any longer. ;)
Clever, eh? But, but requiring people to sign new keys with their old keys, this ensures that the new key isn't an imposters.
'Course, in order to sign a new key, they have to use the old key, in which case why do they need a new key? Various reasons I won't bother with.
You'll want to make several keys ahead of time and sign them with each other, to provide continuity, and use different passphrases for each one so that cracking one doesn't
compromise the others.
In any case, you MUST backup your keyring (public and private) to various places, both physical and 'net, so you never lose them, otherwise you are up shit creek without a
paddle. :eek:

Thanks NBK. I actually dont blame you for being so cautious about peoples public keys. As for PGP, I did RTFM :p

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Last call forumites
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THErAPIST S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 02:09 AM

OK guys, This is the last call. If you have any material (videos o r pictures) of roguesci related stuff, post a link to it here. If
you've already posted a link in another topic th en tell m e what topic the link is in. If your videos or pictures were on the FTP
then chances are that I've already got those as I downloaded everything that I possibly could have off of the FTP.
As o f now I have com pleted the intro (http://www.experi-m ental.org/videos/intro.avi) for the upcom ing forum v i d e o , a n d
M o n g o B l o n g o h a s g i v e n m e a pretty dam n g o o d s o n g b y his band Dionysus, which metal and techno lovers alike will most
likely enjoy.
If you have things that you plan on up loading in the VERY near future then it wou ld also b e a g o o d t h i n g t o m ention that so
that I can leave a few slots open in the video. If you wo uld like your vide o clips or pictures to be in troduced to the o ther
forum ites through this video, then please E-m ail m e with either the video clip/ picture or send m e a link to the place where the
videoclip can be downloaded.
My E-m ail= therapist@experi-m ental.org
Thanks
Arkangel S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 08:01 AM

Mongo, is your band in any way connected to the Kebab s h o p a n d l a t e n i g h t e a t e r y o f t h e s a m e n a m e n e x t t o T o t t e n h a m
Court Road?
mongo blongo S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 02:26 PM

u u u u m m m m ...no.....what?:p

This could have gone in one of the existing threads. :rolleyes:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > m ilk white NG
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NOx S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 03:58 PM

Two days ago i had a dream of m aking some NG.
W hen all of the glycerine was added to the m ix ed acids the m ix was cloudy and there was white NG on the bottom o f my jar.
I washed and neutralised it but it stil was white
W ill the color change or is this dangerous NG.
Any help on this wil be apreciated
mongo blongo S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 04:04 PM

You have water droplets in your NG. If you searched first you would not only know this but you would know what to do about it.
Have you read the rules yet?
NOx S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 04:19 PM

Yes i have read the rules but i have to adm it that i havent searched very hard.
I know how to get the water out but it doesnt bother m e. I was just a litle woried about m y safety.
Anyway thanks for the help.
Mr Cool S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 06:35 PM

Bein g worried about your safety is good, it is wise, and so is
FUCKING SEARCHING!!!!!!!!
(This isn't directed totally at you, NO x, it's just a general outburst of frustration)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Brits: Looking for a job?
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http://jobs.m s n . c o . u k / t j m s n / m s n _ d e t a i l s . a s p ? J o b I D = 9 4 6 5 1 1 6
That would be the perfect job to have. Experience in explosives, knowldge of them. We practically could write a book on
terrorist threats here, since we know so m uch about it.
* T h i s h a s n o thing to do with the post, but to whoever re-did m y sig, I like it.
Jumala S e p t e m b e r 2 6th, 2003, 01:12 AM

Realy very in teresting.
W hat do they think where a person could have learned about ex p l o s i v e s a n d w e a p o n s .
W hat do they think where a person could have got his experiences from s.
I dont know about a legal type of education where som e o n e c a n l e a r n a b o u t i m p r o v i s e d e x p l o s i v e s a n d s o o n .
Perhaps everyone who applys for this job will be arrested as terrorist imm ediately.
Cyclonite S e p t e m b e r 2 6th, 2003, 09:49 AM

W hat do they think where a person could have learned about ex p l o s i v e s a n d w e a p o n s .
W hat do they think where a person could have got his experiences from .
A g o o d a m ount of what I know I learned from experience and from EO D school. With that knowledge you have a go o d b a s e
education from "bombs and bullets university", everything you learn after that is just building on the blocks of knowledge. I
owe most of my synth to this very forum .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Phosphoric Acid
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Hang-Man S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 07:00 PM

I ve g o t a h u g e a m ount of 85% phosphoric acid sitting a r o u n d , anyon e know anything fun to do with it? (I ve g ot 15% nitric
and X% hydrochloric (I'll titrate it soon.....)aswell)

ooooooooooh
i have an idea, you could UTFSE
but since you live in canada i'm sure the moderators wo uld be willing to overlook your transgrssions if you could go and "teach"
a certain zyklon_b a lesson. :P
Mr Cool S e p t e m b e r 2 5th, 2003, 07:15 PM

I'm sure it is useful....
I just can't think what for at the m o m e nt.

Teach zyklon_b a lesson? sure! I'll go rig his spark plug with 200g of AP. On that topic, ha s anyone set off AP with just som e
NiCh rom e w i r e a n d a b a t t e r y ? I ve g o t a s y s t e m that works well for black/flash p o w d e r b a s ed 'toys' but don t want to
e x p e r i m ent with som e t h i n g t h a t c o u l d s e n d m e to hell in 200 pieces. :D

Convert to m etaphosphoric acid, absorb on cha rcoal, he at, pass chlorine gas through it, condense the phosphorus chloride a n d
use to make Tabun.
S e e , s o m ething useful after all. :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Fruit of Death?
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VladiO S e p t e m b e r 2 6th, 2003, 12:01 AM

I o p e n e d u p a b a g o f o r a n g e s t h a t a p p e a r e d i n t h e f r i d g e t o d a y , a n d l o a n d b e h o l d , i m holding inm y hand what looks exactly
like a grenade, with the pin bar and everything (south african minneola oranges).
Basically, if one were to make a type of large claymore that would be rou nd, and perfectly fit into an orange or another fruit
(oranges work best, but I'll get to that later), would it not be relatively easy to get them p a s t b o r d e r s ? A s s u m i n g y o u a r e
coming from the US into C anada with a tructloa d of O r a n g e s , a n d t h e r e a r e a b o u t a d o z e n o f t h e s e c l a y m o r e o r a n g e s h i d d e n
in the thousands that you have, there is absolutely no chance that they would be noticed. This would work for smuggling any
type of explosives I'm guessing, provided that they are vacuum sealed. The huge amount of citrus would throw off any sniffing
dog if the ba dass ora n g e s a r e p l a c e d d e e p i n s i d e t h e t r u c k .
The reason I say an orange works best is that its skin (the way they lok when the y have thick juicy skin) is relatively easily
replicable using a coat of latex with an undercoating of orange. Add some dim p l e s , a n d y o u ' r e d o n e .
T o o s m a l l ? T ry grapefruits... I think the possibilities are e n d l e s s . M a y b e o n l y o n c e g u a r d s n o t i c e t h a t e v e r y o n e s e e m s to be

r e a l l y l o v i n g o r a n g e s a n d s e e m ot be bringing a shitload in from one country into another AND BACK, they m ay get suspicious.
I was wondering why no one has come up with som ething similar to this yet. All m y searches here turned up how to blast fruit,
but definitely not use them as the actualy bomb.
chemwarrior S e p t e m b e r 2 6th, 2003, 01:21 AM

I t h i n k i t h a s b e e n t a l k e d a b o ut before, just not as fruit. Disgusing explosives in a m assive quantity of things like that
* m ight* work, but fro m what I know, those dogs have EXTREMLY sensitive noses, and are able to detect even the SLIGHTEST
presence of explosives, drugs, etc. If you go through th at sort of trouble to m ask the sent, Im sure there are other much
easier ways to do so. Also, only transporting sm a l l a m m o u n t s o f e x p l o s i v e s w o u l d b e p o i n tless. Yo u would be totally unable to
transport any significant am m o u n t o f t h e m in the way youve descrived, so little that it wou l d b e a l m o s t p o i n t l e s s t o d o s o ,
unle ss you were taking them into another country for a specific purpose, but if you were planning on selling t h e m , y o u ' d b e
m uch better off just selling the fruit:D
Leadazide S e p t e m b e r 2 6th, 2003, 02:51 AM

If it was possible to fool snifferdogs with som e t h i n g a s e a s y a s o r a n g e s I w o u l d n ' t w a s t e i t o n s m a l l a m o u n ts of explosivs.... I
would sm uggle drugs!
And if the m etode would work the drug sm uggle rs would be doing it today!

Fruit of Death? com e on how much eplosive could you fit in a orange, about enough probably for a grenade, But you couldn't
have more than afew in the truck or the smell of the oranges wo u l d n ' t b e a b l e t o m a s k t h e s m e l l o f t h e e x p l o s i v e t o t h e d o g /
devise that in checking you truck. NBK or one of the other mods can you move this to the Water Cooler.
pinkfire S e p t e m b e r 2 6th, 2003, 04:21 PM

Funnily enough, fruit itself often gets confiscated at borders. Risk of foreign insect species, I suppose.

if yo u r g u n n a d o s o m ething, do it properly.
absolute waste of tim e getting caught with 10kg of HE, hidden in oranges and going to jail for 20 years
when you could get caught with 100kg of HE, and go to jail for 20 years anyways.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > H2SO4 Q u e s t i o n
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I know this is a very sim p l e q u e s t i o n b ut iv just started teaching myself chemistry. I was wondering why H2SO4 dehydrates.
The H2SO4 and H2O are balanced and I cant see one being more electronegative than the other. I only have books and no
teacher, thanks.
frogfot S e p t e m b e r 2 7th, 2003, 06:36 AM

W hat do you m e a n b y b a l a n c e d ?
H2SO 4 sim ply gives off H+ very easily, which m akes it more polar while polar water attaches to it b etter. Th is attaching force
m ay also depend on coordination of water arou nd sulfate ion, how many H2O can be attached etc..

O k , I s e e . W hat I thinking by balanced was that the H2O and H2SO4 has the 8 electrons in each o f the ato m s a n d s o I
thought it wo uld be content to just stay the way it was until som ething m ore electronegative cam e a l o n g a n d g r a b b e d t h e H +
off the H2SO 4. I have allot to learn, m y chemistry background is next to none.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Looking for W indows 3.1
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I'm looking for a copy of windows 3.1 if anyone can help me. I would thank-you except I'm in a bit of a rush I need it with a
couple of hours (3-4hours) be cause I have to install windows 98 on a bunch of laptops I h ave but I only ha v e t h e u n g r a d e
version of win98 and need a copy of 3.1 or 95 to install it and since 95 is a bit big to download so 3.1 is m y only choice But I
only have today and early sunday as I have a HD adapter that allows m e u s e m y l a p t o p H D i n m y d e s k t o p s o I c a n u s e m y
desktops CD drive to install software. But I only have th e adapter till early sunday. Thanks

Or if anyone tell me of a crack that gets around the "U p g r a d e C o m pliance Check" were the window installer askes for your old
wind ows disk or the path on your hard drive to the previos version of windows.
IDTB S e p t e m b e r 2 8th, 2003, 12:39 AM

I don't believe you could use a crack to bypass that. I personally always have the full installation discs, but I would think the
upgrade installation only provides enough of the operating system to convert a lesser version of itself.
I'd recom m e n d g e t t i n g a h o l d o f W in 98SE(instead of W in98) by finding it on the popular file sharing applications. Once in
awhile you'll get a currupt ISO, but usually they're good for that kind of stuff.
Sorry if I'm too late to help. I'm not sure what tim e z o n e y o u ' r e i n .

I could've e-m ailed it to you if I hadn't worked today. :(
Sparky S e p t e m b e r 2 8th, 2003, 01:30 AM

I h o p e f u l l y I ' m i n t i m e . I h a d t h e f l o p p i e s s t a s h e d a w a y s o I c o p i e d t h e m to my hard drive and m a d e a z i p . Norton antivirus
told me that it 'repaired' m d x . e x e a n d e x p a n d . e x e s o I h o p e y o u d o n ' t h a v e t r o u b l e w i t h t h o s e .
http://pyropage.cyberarm y.ca/W in3.1.zip
How's that fo r service :D . I hope it works.
Jarod888 S e p t e m b e r 2 8th, 2003, 02:23 AM

I have a full version of 98 if you need it. Give me a place to sen d it.

Thanks Sparky, It worked great. Now I can finally get these laptops working. I just hope larry won't m a k e m e pay fo r k e e p i n g
his HD adapter a day longer.
Jarod888 S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 01:00 AM

here is a link for 98 2nd edition
f*p://64.23.18.163/0 11123456p/%f/Scanned_by_helm utblum _for_KKB/m kd/killer/upped_for_KKB/lost/post/%f/W in98 Secon d

Edition/
getting around 150k a second

Thanks jarod, but since I got the copy of 3.1, I was able to install m y upgrade copy of 98se on all the laptops.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Nukes....good or b a d . . ?
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The A LL-MIGHTY S e p t e m b e r 2 8th, 2003, 05:35 PM

How to you regard nuclear w e a p o n s ? D o y o u t h i n k o f t h e m a s cool m assive e x p l o s i o n o r a u n n e c e s s a r y f orm o f s l o w a n d
pain ful death , t h a t s s a y i n g y o u s u r v i v e t h e e x p l o s i o n a n d a r e e f f e c t e d b y t h e r a d i a t i o n .
Personally I think of them in both ways, they are cool, in the form o f a h u g e e x p l o s i o n a n d u n i m a g i n a b l e p o w e r a n d
destruction. But also there is the radiation, the cruel form of slow and painful death. I thin k a s l o n g a s t h e n u k e i s
d e t o n a t e d f a r f r o m p e o p l e a n d o n l y u s e d t o d e stroy objects or to show people what a blast looks like, it is fine. But once you
go to killing people in that m anner then it is just wrong, and that is why we use C4 and dynam ite and other various
explosives. They also can kill you crue lly due to burns b u t t h a t s no t the f o c u s o f t h i s t h r e a d .
W hat do you think, regarding nukes?
vulture S e p t e m b e r 2 8th, 2003, 06:02 PM

The paradoxal thing about nukes is that they are a deterrant to their own deploym ent.
Nuclear weap o n s a r e f a s c i n a t i n g b e c a u s e t h e y r e l e a s e e norm o u s a m ounts of energy, using processes and forces wh ich act on a
s c a l e o f n a n o m eters.
Testing nukes will always cause hazardous fallout. O fcourse atmospherical testing is m uch worse than unde rground testing, but
underground testing m akes deep craters which are sealed by glass/ceramic form ed by the e x p l o s i o n h e a t . T h i s p r e v e n t s
l e a k ing of radioactive agent into the environm ent, but it m ight have other unwanted effects, such as disturbing water layers or
underground water ch annels. I wonder if it could lead to seism ic activity.
danmcl2002 S e p t e m b e r 2 8th, 2003, 08:01 PM

that is an interesting concept as far as seism ic activity goes, i suppose if you do apply tha t kind of m assive force you will have
a n e q u a l a n d o p p o s i t e r e a c t i o n o n t h e l a n d m a ss, which could, if the force was great enough m ove a plate, but i think that a
single nuke would not be powerful enough to m ove m uch in term s of the earth, look at what we ha ve been doing to it for the
relatively short time that we have been here, weve actually done very little permanent damge, the hole in the ozone layer will
regenerate o ver time, eons, b ut it will regenera te, not in our lifetim e.
I think that the worst thing that we cou ld do would be to destroy ourselve s, on a global scale, but in the real significance of
plan et earth, we are just passengers.
O n a d i f f e r e n t p o i n t , i t h i n k n u k e s h a v e b e e n o n e o f o u r g r e a t e s t t r i u m p h s a n d g r e a t e s t m i s t a k e s a t t h e s a m e tim e. W e h a v e
truly harnessed a massive power but it all depends on its use, the sam e a s t h e e x p l o s i v e s a n d s c i e n c e t h a t w e d r e a m a b o u t .
well thats m y two cents(eurocents)

I'm n o t a f a n o f t h e n u k e s . I m ean, if your goal is to kill everyone in a g iven area, use a bioagent, at least then yo u wont
h a v e t h e r a d i o a c t i v e e a r t h a n d m a s s d estruction to deal with :)
static_firefly S e p t e m b e r 2 8th, 2003, 09:41 PM

If it wasnt for nukes, what was the chances that W WIII would have stared during the cold war? I personaly think nukes are
good.

Like any technology, it's neither good or bad.
If you haven't allread y, check out The Nuclear W eapons FAQ (http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/Nwfaq/Nfaq0.htm l) . All
kind s of good info- Think critical mass is a classified secret? Our government doe s... But it's published here.
I ' d g u e s s i n a h u n d r e d years that our descendants will think anyone who thought to fire a nuke on a habita ble planet's surface
totaly insane . These are weap ons that are only suited for use in space.
Politicians have never really figured ou t what nukes are about. Any of their weapo ns scientists who were too forceful about
telling them that truth ended up marginalized or unem p l o y e d , l i k e O p e n h e i m e r .
T h e a s s u m ption that we can't change the earth noticably is wrong, IMHO. There's no lim it on how big a weapon can be built.
The USSR asmosphericaly tested a 50 megaton weapon, air dropped. And the design would have yielded perhaps twice that if
the caseing had been replaced with the unenriched Uranium orig inaly designed fo r the weapon. That's the kind of energy that
a tectonic fault might notice. And I know JUST where I'd put one for the greatest effect... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/
nature/1513342.stm )

Originally posted by Hang-Man
I'm n o t a f a n o f t h e n u k e s . I m ean, if your goal is to kill everyone in a g iven area, use a bioagent, at least then yo u wont
h a v e t h e r a d i o a c t i v e e a r t h a n d m a s s d estruction to deal with :)
if i had to go i ' d r a t h e r b e i n c i n e r a t e d b y a n u k e t h a n d i e a s l o w a n d p a i n f u l d e a t h a t t h e h a n d s o f s o m e b i o a g e n t
Ahriman S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 07:13 AM

I think nuclear weapo ns arent really a viable option for use in a war, they are m ostly just political weapons used by
governments to threaten othe r countries, but not really intended to be used. Considering how nuclear weap ons have grown in
size and power since W W 2, you would have to have a really insa ne government, or a country about to be conquered, to use
them (Although, what government IS sane?)
Maybe there will be a nuclear weapon m ake that burns up the fa llout in daughter-reactions, who knows? W o u l d t h a t m a k e
nuclear weap o n s m o r e u s a b l e ?

I m p r o - n u k e s , t h e y a re a great deterrent. The energy yield for the mass is im pressive but threes lots of room for
im p r o v e m e n t . G r e a t d i s p l a y s of power and destruction always fascinated m e . T h e r e s allot m o r e s uffering due t o com m o n
e x p l o s i v e i t e m s than any nuke. Its just overrated because ITS A NUKE. T here is also nukes that are very sm all that fit on
GMs fired from fighters "super bunker busters" that won t cause significan t harm to the environmen t. Look how m any were
t e s t e d a b o v e ground. I d o n t s e e a nuclear winter, do you? T h e o n l y n a t i o n s t h a t rival our nuclear power we wont fight in m y
lifetime. The japs had it coming to them anywa ys, besides m ore lives were saved.
As f or alternatives...Neutron bom bs d o n t c a u s e n e a r l y t h e a m o u n t o f long-term radiation. They just kill its like a Nuclear
Neutron claym ore"
On another note, am I the only one who looks at everyday objects in term s of E=MC2. The amount of destruction m y s h o e s
could cause is great....:D

On another note, am I the only one who looks at everyday objects in term s of E=MC2. The amount of destruction m y s h o e s
could cause is great....:)
Hehe, every day:D Hm m... I wonder how much damnage this ba ll of link in my pocket cou ld do if I do this and this and this to
it..... or hmm , look at this pencil... (hehe, rem e m ber NBK the screenplay anyone? where the guy, George, I think, stabs that
girl to death in the co urt? :D)
E=MC 2 is just a general term in m y oppinion th ough. All things have power, but depending on how you harness it, it could be
used to hurt or help. Take a firehose for example- VERY powerful. Can be used to stop a raging in ferno in the hands of a
firefighter, or it could be used to knock som e o n e o n t h e i r a s s b e f o r e s t o m ping their skull into little pieces....
Also, Im very pro-nuke. They are the greatest deterrent from m a n y c o u n tries attacking another. There is nothing available,
with the exception of som e b i o / c h e m a g e n t s t h at would scare a country into NO T attacking. Im personally more afraid of the
b i o / c h e m agents, but thats because those are things you would never se e c o m m ing.. strike silently, no warning (unless you
live in a m ajor hotspot and they have the chem ical agent detectors set up... still doesnt do a dam n bit of g o o d a g a i n s t b i o
agents... {side note, does anyone know if the rumors about NY setting up chem detectors in the city are true??})

I believe they're testing using CW detectors for the subways in NYNY and D.C. But given the quality of employees that these
public services tend to hire, I'm fully confident that the things wouldn't work. :)
T h a t , a n d t h e r e ' s s o m any other chemicals that could be used that it wouldn't make any d ifference , since they wouldn't be
detectable by a m onitor intended for m ilitary CW detection.
And would it really help if an autom ate d recording came on during rush h our in a crowded tube station saying "This is an alert!
C h e m ical warfare age nt detected! Evacuate the station! (repeat REALLY LO UD)"?
Nope.
If anything it'd be even worse because of the p anic. And what co uld the authoritie s do to evacuate the station in tim e to
prevent fatalities if it did detect Sarin or HCN? Nothing. It's just a "feel-good" m e a s u r e t o m a k e t h e s h e e p l e t h i n k t h a t t h e
g o v e r n m e n t i s d o i n g s o m ething to protect. them . :p
pyromaniac_guy October 2nd, 2003, 05:12 PM

Thin k critical mass is a classified secret? O ur governm ent does... But it's publishe d here.
[/U RL]
no they dont... estimating crittical m a s s i s a v e r y s i m p l e p r o c e s s , a n d h a s b e e n c o m mon knowlege in the scientific comm unity
since the 40's
YayItGoBoom! October 24th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 8 : 4 3 P M

Late ly I've been pondering the possibility of a "clean" thermonuke, one including a fusion reaction driven b y electochemical
m eans rather than a fission prereaction. It seem s like the government would have thought of this already, but then a g a i n
m u c h i s k e p t b e h i n d c l o s e d d o o r s , e s p ecially with com m o n s h e e p l e p a r a n o i a a b o u t W MDs. My idea is that heavy hydrogen
isotopes Deuterium a nd Tritium are stored in an insulated m e t a l s p h e r e . T h e s p h ere has two electode arrays connected to a
very large capacitor bank, several hundred kVolts and very large capacitance (a half Farad would definitely do the trick but
supposedly a capacitor that big would be the size of a h ouse). Around the sphere would be a layer of Carbon Subnitride C4N2,
s u p p o s e d l y t h e h o t t e s t b u r n i n g s u b s t a n c e . T h a t w o u l d h a v e s o m e sort of exotic thermite starter flame m ost likely to get the
temp needed. Around that would be a very high VoD explosive, I'm not the one to say, but perhaps astrolite or HMX. Heres
how the whole thing works. He a v y h y d r o g e n p r e s s u r i z e d t o a s h i g h a p r e s s u r e a s r e a s o n a b l e , b e f o r e d e t o n a t i o n t h e c a p a c i t o rs
fire, arcing through the gas producing plasma at high temperatu res, I wo u l d t a k e a s t a b a nd say 1 0000 K. The carbon
subnitride is rapidy oxidized, burning at approx 5000 K, while sim ultaneously being com pressed by the explosives. I'll have to
run som e tests on this in m y b a s e m ent when I get a chance ;) .
xyz October 24th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 1 : 1 0 P M

O n e o f t h e m isconceptions that a lot of people have is that "Setting off a nuke m a k e s p l a ces uninhabitable for hundreds of
years" In actual fact, radiation in the a rea is down to fairly safe levels within 2 or 3 weeks.
The rule for nuclear b last radiation is that if you are in the area, you receive more radiatio n in the first hour, than you do in the
rest of the first day, more in the first d ay than the rest of the first week, and m ore in the first week, than the rest of your
lifetime spent living in the are a.
Flake2m October 25th , 2003, 03:34 AM

I think one of the reasons that there has not been a major war in over 55 years has been because of Nuclear weapons and
other highly destructive weapons, that are now avalible (you say comm erically) to any country with the money.
100 years ago, Wars were longer and bloodier. The wea pons we used in W W I a n d W W II were not efficient as they are today.
W hile you could argue that W ars are still just as bloody, the longer they rage m e a n s t h e g e n e r a l s o f t h e a r m ies are m ore
likely to do more desperate things, this was the case of the Nuclear attacks on Hiroshim a & Nagasaki in W W I I a n d t h e u s e o f
p o i s o n g a s i n W W I.
Now world leaders are encoura g e d m o r e t o r e s o l v e p r o b l e m s t h r o u g h m o r e d i p l o m atic channels then with th e u s e o f t a n k s ,

guns 'n bombs. Nukes are just another option when desperate m easures are required to be taken, just like poison gas and
Biological agents.
In the end it just com es down to how hot-headed the world leaders of today are.I dont doubt that this world will experience
another major conflict (W WIII) it is a question of when and for many of us, we hope that it dosen't occur while I friends +
family are still on this planet.
The doomsday clock is still ticking...
Desmikes October 26th , 2003, 01:07 AM

Bert m e n t i o n e d d e t o n a t i o n o f n u k e s i n s p a c e a n d t h a t g o t m e t h i n k i n g , i f t h e m a i n s o u r c e o f n u k e s p r e s s u r e - w a v e i s
extrem e h e a t and not production of gasses, what would a detonation of a thermo nuclear device in space look like? Since
there is noting around it that could be expanded during the release of th erm al energy (other than the device itself) I would
s u s p e c t t h a t s p a c e d e t o s w o u ldn t be nearly a s specta cular.
H a n g - M a n p r o p o s e d using bio a g e n t s t o k i l l p e o p l e i n o r d e r t o e l i m i n a t e radioactive f allout, wouldn t n e u t r o n b o m b b e m o r e
suitable for that purp o s e. If I r e m e m b e r corre ctly, those babies kill everything that has living tissue, aren t n e a r l y a s
destructive as other nukes, are confined to relatively sm all area but will go through pretty much an y type of shieldin g in that
area, only leaves secondary (induced) radiation for m ere 24-40hrs.
xyz October 26th , 2003, 02:01 AM

I have also wondered that about nukes in space...
A l o t o f t h e d e s i g n d o n e o n n e u t r o n b o m b s i s f o r t a k i n g o u t t a n k s b e c a u s e t h e y a r e m uch m ore re sistant to nuclear weapons
than infantry (overpressure shielding, armor more than 80cm thick in som e cases). Of course a tank will not survive close
proxim ity to the epicentre of a nuclear blast but it will do much better than infantry would.
A neutron bo mb however, will easily create a burst of intense radiation th at will kill the crew of the tank.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > anyone have VB6 professio nal
edition or better
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Ok i'm working away on my p2p project, but unfortunatly it requires a win sock con trol.
i happen to be using VB 6 learining edition, which comes with a runtime only winsock control.
i was wondering if anyone with vb 6 proffessional edition, or better could get me mswinsck.ocx (full version) , or eve n better
could get m e a full copy of vb 6 proffessional e dition or better.
cheers
o n a n o t h e r n ote i've now been a m e m b e r o f t h e f o r u m for just o ver a year

VB6 is crap. Use Delphi instead.

i know it's crap, but i dont know delphi
peterthesmart S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 05:43 PM

Try IRC for the .net versions.
Tuatara S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 05:51 PM

I'm u s i n g V B . N e t . I t h a s a S o c k e t n a m e s p a c e t h a t i m p l e m ents classes for UDP, TC P , the Berkley socket interface, network
acce ss etc.
Never used this bit myself, so I don't know if thats what you're a fter. I doubt its separable from .Net to use in VB6.
Never thought I'd like a Microsoft product, but I like VB.Net. Mak es program m i n g W i n d o w s a p p s u n b e l i e v a b ly easy.
VB.Net cost me NZ$240 for the base edition - m oney well spent I feel.
IDTB S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 07:11 PM

Visual Basic is IDEAL for learning your first prog ram ming language, though it's not very useful as o ne. A m e r e s t e p p i n g s t o n e .
I ' d s u g g e s t m o v i n g t o C / C ++ or like NBK2000 said, Delphi. Although, these two languages are much harder to learn than
Visual Basic, they are ideal for actual use. If yo u were to switch to C/C++ I'd suggest learning javascript first untill you have a
good grasp on it.
If you're determed to use Visual Basic for this application I'd recom m end Visual Basic 6 Professional Edition which can be found
rather easily, I may even have it on disk somewhere.
As for acquiring the full version of m swinsck.ocx: you should already have it. Many many applications that are ran on W indows
requires it. By a rare chance you don't, you can easily find it on the Microsoft website.
T_Pyro S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 07:20 PM

Many might say that VB is just "crap", but I beg to differ. Just about any win32/win16 application that can be coded in m ost
other languages can also be coded in VB. Anyway, I guess this isn't the place to be discussing the merits/dem erits of VB, bu t
I'll just say that having coded a 3D engine natively in VB, I'm pretty convinced VB isn't just "crap".
zeocrash, I've upload ed the m swinsck.ocx file from the VisualStudio6 CD for download. C lick here (http://www.geocities.com /
t_pyro_mania/) to download it.
I have VisualStudio6, but since it's 606 m b, I h ave no idea how to give it to you... Any suggestions?

I h a v e a . I S O i m age of Visual Studio 6, which includes Visual Basic and h undreds of other neat apps. E-mail me so we can find
out how to get you the copy.
Tuatara S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 08:53 PM

To add to T_Pyro's co m m ent : Visual Studio .Net allows you to program in either VB or C#. Both languages use the exact sam e
runtime library so anything you can do in C# you can do in VB. Just com es down to personal preference after that. I like code
that reads like English so I like VB (and Pascal too), I a lso like strongly typed lan guages as it is harder to m ake stupid errors.
metafractal S e p t e m b e r 2 9th, 2003, 11:28 PM

I got VB6 enterprise edition off Kazza. Be persisten, search for "visual basic" every now and then a nd your bound to find it.

If I'm not m istaken, C# is m icro$hits proprietary version of the C language that they're trying to foist off on program m e r s a s
bein g "better". Better for who, though? The fact that it uses the sam e runtim e as VB6 says it all, I think.
VB requires a runtim e library to be installed on the target m achine.

VB is notorious for all the security flaws that it allows attackers to use against the target m achine.
VB is sloppy code that works fine for "lite" applications, but is we ll known for crashing out when dealing with heavy processor
l o a d s (like servers...).
It's alright fo r learning the log ic of programm ing, but is the Duplo blocks of program m i n g , c o m p a r e d t o t h e C N C o f a s s e m bler,
or the m achine tools of C.
Kriegsminister S e p t e m b e r 3 0th, 2003, 07:39 AM

I have Visual Studio 6.0 Professional Edition, which also includes Visual Basic. It's on 2 CDs, not including the MFC (Microsoft
Foundation Classes) Library. But I guess you won't need MFC an yway.
zeocrash October 1st, 2003, 02:44 PM

h m m, i'm trying to download vb.net enterprise architect edition, but failin g horribly.
chemwarrior, i couldn't find your e-m a i l a d d r e s s , s o y o u ' l l h a v e t o e - m a i l m e
t-pyro and kreigsm inister, che ck your e-mail
T_Pyro October 1st, 2003, 03:49 PM

Agreed, VB requires a runtime library, but there's no need to specially "install" it on the target m achine. All you have to do is to
m ake sure that you include th e MSVBVM60.dll (or MSVBVM50.dll, depending on your version) file in the sam e f o l d e r a s t h e e x e
file. If you use any cutom activeX controls, then you'll have to in clude the respective files too.
NBK, by the "security flaws" yo u m entioned, were you referring to this (http://www.microsoft.com /technet/treeview/default.asp?
url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-037.asp) security bulletin released by Microso ft? That flaw affects the Microsoft Visual Basic
for Applicatio ns SDK, not the "conventional" VB that com es with VisualStudio.
VB is admittedly marginally slower than other languages, but one can't ignore its strong points. If you're going to develop
s o m e intensive application, you could always code the intensive part in som e o t h e r l a n g u a g e l i k e V C + + , a n d c o m pile it as a
dll. This m e t h o d h a s q u i t e a f e w a d v a n t a g e s . M F C d o e s m ake designing windowed applica tions sim pler in VC++, but nothing
can beat the ease or the flexibility of the VB IDE. Therefore, you could design the user interface in VB, and still have a stable,
fast application. If you were to update the core code at a later stage, you would just have to recom pile the dll, instead of
having to recompile everything all over, making patches easier.
Finally, however, like Tuatara said, it's just a m atter of personal tastes, which cannot be changed by others...
zeocrash, I didn't get your e-mail... Alternatively, you can contact me here. (T__Pyro@Hotm ail.com )
Anthony October 3rd, 2003, 03:47 PM

W hat, you lot don't write in m a c h i n e c o d e ? : e e k :
zeocrash October 3rd, 2003, 03:59 PM

i do better than that, i convert m y program s (written with punch cards) onto integrated circuits, which i then etch with a toothpick
onto a wafer of silicon, the size of a flea. :P
s p u d k i l l a , e - m ail m e
Spudkilla October 3rd, 2003, 08:17 PM

E-mail sent.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > glossary?
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I was thinking of m aking a "glossary" of sorts posting it in the water cooler, I m ean, it too k m e a while to figure out what
'dragon eggs' were. If we built a database of basic chem s and simple explosives we would have less questions to answer. I'll
start m aking one if you guys think its worth doing.

S e m i g o o d i d e a , t h o u g h m o s t p e o p l e R E A L L Y s h o u l d b e able to use a search engine, or text book, or ask specifically about... I
dont think anyone wo uld com p l a i n a b o ut their being a glossary, especially not our newer mem bers. But if you start including
thinks like "AP" then we have a problem ... ANYO NE in our field had better know what AP stands for or they have a m uch larger
p r o b l e m than trying to figure out.....

Go for it if you want to.
J u s t m a k e s u r e y o u g e t t h e m right.
To start with:
AP = Acetone Peroxid e, Amm onium Perchlorate, or Armor Piercing depending on context. If a person can't figure ou t which is
which from the rest of the thread, they should seek professional help for term inal stupidity. ;)
GibboNet October 2nd, 2003, 11:26 PM

As p art of an old website, I made a fairly long list of acronym s , t h o u g h I f o c u s e d m o r e o n m ilitary than explosives / chem icals.
I'll try to dig it out later, it might give you a good start point.
T h e m a i n r e a s o n I ' m p o s t i n g , I m ay not get back on the net for a week or m ore, I'm on a library computer, my home
computer has crashed, and I've fixed the initial problem , (had to replace the RAM) but now m y m o d e m i s f u c k e d a n d I c a n ' t
stay logged onto the internet m ore than 15 seconds before it cuts out. Sorry.... :( I'm trying to get enough cash together for a
first payment on a new com puter.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Basketball Bom b
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VladiO S e p t e m b e r 3 0th, 2003, 12:28 AM

I was thinking of new ways of com bining explosives whe n I rem e m b e r e d a c a m p m o m e n t w h e n a b a s k e t b a l l b l e w u p o n t h e
court. It was inflated to the lim it when cold, and as it he a t e d , a i r e x p a n d e d a n d B O OM. So unds lou d as hell.
Now, thinking that that releases a shitload of com pressed air (20psi in a 1.1 gallon ball), which is already a good amount of
pressure.
Now, if such a ball is inflated to 20psi with hydrogen/butane + oxygen in 7-3 prop ortion (+- a little for perfect balance), would it
not create a sickeningly powerful explosive? Think abou t it, you have pre s s u r i z e d b u t a n e g i v i n g o f f a h u g e a m o u n t o f e n e r g y
and pressure, multiplied by th e initial expansio n o f t h e g a s e s a s t h e y e x it the ball... that looks like a quite a big bang.
That is... with a 1.1 gallon am outn of 20 psi hydrogen/air m i x t u r e , p l u s a g a s e x p a n s i o n r a t e a t a b o u t j u s t u n d e r 8 t i m e s

original tem perature in kelvin, som ething like 100 psi. 20x100 psi = 200 0psi pressure at release of gas... Now... com b u s t i n g
a t a b o u t 2 0 7 0 d e g r e e s C , t h a t s q u i t e a n e x p l o s i o n . W i t h t h e a d d e d B O O M i t ' s r e a l l y m ind blowing.

It'll work... but what happens when you drop the damn thing on accident? there go your fe et is what.
It will work, yes, but its pointless. Thats a VERY KEW LISH idea, ranking with hydro g e n b a l l o o n s a n d s p a r k l e r b o m bs...:rolleyes:

And he was starting o ut so well too...sigh.
Also, this whole "I can make a bom b out of a (com mon object)" line of thinking is pointless. Yes, you can m a k e a b o m b o u t o f
a basketball or even an orange, if you wanted to. It's not the container that m atters but rather the filler and the initiation
m eans that m akes it a bom b.
And how was this "bom b" supposed to be initiated? It's not going to spontaneously ignite simply from rupturing. You'd have to
h a v e s o m e other m e a n s , p e r h a p s s o m ething inside the ball, but how would you get it in there in the first place? :rolleyes:
End topic. Po st another k3wL idea like this and your going to be blown up (out of here).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Vestas (strike anywhere
m atches)
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O k t o d a y i b o u g h t m y self a p ack of swan vestas, for those of you who haven't worked out by now these are strike anywhere
m atches. now i was wondering to m yse lf, what's in these m atches. i know safety matches contain chlorate, ground glass and
sulfur in the heads, a n d p h o s p h o r u s o n t h e s i d e o f t h e m atchbox. but what do strike anywhere ma tches contain to m a k e t h e n
able t o b e " s t r u c k a n y w h e r e " p l e a s e c o u l d s o m e o n e e n l i g h t e n m e.
i did search the forum for vestas, but it yeilded no useful results
T_Pyro October 1st, 2003, 04:03 PM

"Strike anywhere m atches", as they are com m only called, contain antimo ny sulfide, potassium chlorate, gum , and starch. This
particular typ e of m atch was called "lucifer", if I remem ber correctly. Safety m atches are "safe" since the ph o s p h o r o u s a n d
chlorate + antimony sulfide are separated from each other- the phosphorous is in the strip on the box, the rest in the match
head.
metafractal October 2nd, 2003, 01:36 AM

Phosphorous sequisulphide springs to mind. I think the composition that T_Pyro described for strike anywhere m a t c h e s i s a n
olde r one that is not used any m ore. They go back to the 19th century. While the y are 'strike anywhere' in that they do not
require any special chemical surface to ignite, they do require sandpaper and a lot of pressure (no striking against your boot
like in cowboy movies.) And zeocrash, I think your mistaken that the head of a safety match is a composition of chlorate and
sulphur. This would m a k e t h e m prone to spontaneous ignition, especially after they got old. Additionally, the broken glass (or
other corse material) is on the striker, not the head.
alhazred October 3rd, 2003, 06:01 AM

I think sulphur still is a com m o n c o m p o n e n t a n d a l s o t h e m a t c h h e a d s a lways contain broken glass or other coarse material.
W hy should a chlorate/sulphur-mixture ignite spontaneously ?
From traces of acid in the sulphur ? I think it doesnt m atter because of sm all quantities and low proportion of sulphur in the
m atch com position (less than 10 %).
http://nobel.scas.bcit.ca/resource/glossary/s-z.htm
http://www.pa.msu.edu/~sciencet/ask_st/092596.htm l
http://www.redheads.com .au/environm ent.htm l
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A283132
OK, that sites are not very good but dont find better ones in sh ort tim e .
gliper October 11th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 4 7 P M

Is there anyway to disolve strike anywheres I'v tried water laqer thinner and asitone.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Modified Haber Process
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Ollie Snowie October 1st, 2003, 05:50 PM

S o m e b o d y p l e a s e m ove this. I'm still a newbie so I'd better post all m y new threads in the water cooler.
Several ideas have struck m e a s m a k i n g t h e h a b e r p r o c e s s m ore accessible to the hom e laboratory:
1. I have heard (in another th read here) that a m m onium nitrate will absorb am m onia eve n at atm ospheric pressure. So how
about putting a m ixture of am m o n i u m nitrate and iron filings on shelves in a heat and pressure resistant cham b e r , p u m p i n g i n
the nitrogen and hydrogen, heating it to a m o d e r a t e t e m perature (nowhere near decom p. of am monium nitrate) and leaving it
until the pressure has dropped to alm ost normal, signifying that the reaction has alm o s t f i n i s h e d . T h e n d r i v e t h e a m m o n i a o f f
t h e a m m o n i u m nitrate with gentle heat or low pressure.
2. I presum e the reason why am m o n i u m n i t r a t e a b s o r b s a m m onia is because it is an acidic salt (weak base with strong acid)
where the acid ion has all its valences filled up with alkali ions (-NO2 and - N H 4 h a v e e q u a l a n d o p p o s i t e c h a r g e s ) . S o t h e
a m monia is attracted to the am m onium nitrate but cannot bond with it. If this is so, you could use a more stable alternative
( e . g . a m m onium chloride) and run the reaction at a higher tem perature, more lik e what they use in industry (~400*C).
3. As for the high pressure, I would use a centrifuge pum p, because it is sim p l e , h a s n o r u b b i n g p a r t s , a n d n e e d s n o
m oveable gaskets (which wear out). You could then fill a large container with nitrogen and hydroge n, pump water in, leave it
for a few hours, and then run off the dilute am m onia solution. As the am monia is form ed, it would dissolve in the water and be
effectively rem oved from the gas phase where it can easily decom p o s e a g a i n .
4. The previous m eth od would not be very effective because the am m o n i a c o m es out as a dilute solution, so I came up with
this idea:
Use centrifuge pum ps to pump a dense liquid which nitrogen and hydrogen are not very soluble in (e.g. m ercury) into the
bottom of a pressure resistant cylinder which has a hole in the bottom and two holes in the top. This pushe s all the air out o f
the cylinder. Then put two one way valves into the top two holes, on going in, the other going out. Attach the one going in to a
balloon filled with nitrogen and hydrogen and let the liquid out o f the cylinder, drawing the gasses into the cylinder. Then switch
t h e p u m p on again and force the gasses out of the cylinder, through the outgoing one way valve, and into the catalyst
chamber, which is filled with iron filings and amm onium nitrate. Keep this cycle going until the pressure in high enough for your
liking, let the am m onia form overnight, and then use it to wake yourself up in the morning. :)
P l e a se point out any m istakes - I'm sure there is something to stop it working. I'm rather tired. :)
Ollie Snowie October 11th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 1 6 P M

Mods - Sorry a b o u t t h i s - I c a n t edit.
I was so tired when I posted that that I didn't think of the problem of oxygen con tam ination (Good thing I didn't fall asleep
and start dre aming of it ;)) I m u s t h a v e t h o u g h t s o m ething like this - fractional distillation of air=easy no problem , I can
reach 160 psi with m y trusty fo otball pu m p! Any way I ll stop blabbering now:
I was thinking about this modified Haber process (AGAIN) and I thought of how to solve this problem of oxygen
contam inatio n as well as reducing the required pressure . I would pass air slowly over hot charcoal so nearly all the O 2 g e t s
r e m o v e d a s C O 2, and use the heat produced to heat another ch amber full of charcoal. Steam w o u l d b e p a s s e d o v e r t h e 2 n d
lot of charcoal to produce a gas containing hydrogen and carbon m o n o x i d e . T h e s e t w o g a s e s w o u l d b e m ixed in the right
p r o p o r t i o n s s o a s t o h a v e 3 H 2 t o 1 N 2 a n d t h e n s p a r k e d ( P a s s i n g t h e m o ver a hot catalyst for oxidation such as platinum
would probably be safer). Any rem a i n i n g o x y g e n would oxidise the CO in preference to the H2 or N2 (I think). Then the
g a s e s w o u l d b e p u m ped into a pressure and carbonic acid resistant bottle (pop bottle is fine) at whatever p ressure the bottle
i s h a p p y t a k i n g . T h e c o n c e n t r a t i o n o f NH3 at 10 atm o s p h e r e s i s 2 . 0 4 % ( f r o m C h a m bers Encyclopaedia) but it didn t s a y a t
what temperature this was or whether it was with a catalyst. A sm all am ount of water would be introduced into the reaction
chamber and the reaction wou ld start:
C O 2 + H2O --> H2CO 3
3H2 + N2 --> 2NH3
2NH3 + 2H2O --> 2NH4OH
2NH4O H + H2CO 3 --> (NH4)2CO 3 + 2H2O
CO is left unchanged. I think that a lot of nitrogen would be left over as well as CO . C O c o u l d b e b u r n e d t o p r o v i d e e x t r a h e a t
for the first stage and to make it less toxic but it would probably also need a catalyst because of a ll that N2. Is it REALLY worth
it?
Then the pro duct wou ld be reacted with lim e t o m a k e a m m o n i a a n d C a C O 3. If yo u really wanted to make a little, almost self
c o n t a i n e d , a m monia plant, yo u could m ake the lim e f r o m t h e C a C O 3 a g a i n a n d f e e d t h e r e s u l t i n g CO 2 into anothe r type of
plan t and then turn it into charcoal for the first stage, but that would be a little ob sessive!
Questions:
I think that the am monia form ed would react with carbonic acid to m a k e a m m onium carbonate, no t with carbon dioxide to
m a k e u r e a . A m I right?
Is there anything else wrong with this?
Am I re-inventing the wheel?
[EDIT - Spelling, additions and making it m a k e s e n s e ]
vulture October 12th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 2 : 1 1 P M

Steam would be passed over the 2nd lot of cha rcoal to produce a gas containing hydrogen and carbon mon o x i d e
This needs very high pressure a n d a t e m perature of 900C. Good luck constructing a reactor that'll withstand that.
Any rem a i n i n g o x y g e n w o u l d o x i d i s e t h e C O i n p r e f e r e n ce to the H2 or N2 (I think)
Nope. The oxygen will com bine explosively with any H2 at the tem peratures you're working with. Furtherm ore, the spark or
platinum will assure ignition of any H2/O2 mixtures!
T h e n t h e g a s e s w o u l d b e p u m ped into a pressure and carbonic acid resistant bottle (pop bottle is fine) at whatever pressure
the bottle is happy ta k i n g .
C O 2 is soluble in water, but not that good. I su g g e s t u s i n g a C a C O3 solution (as this can be recycled, whereas NaOH cannot).
2NH4O H + H2CO 3 --> (NH4)2CO 3 + 2H2O
The equilibrium is strongly to the left here.
Am monia preparation is dirt cheap on industrial scale, but this does not m ean you can get away with simple apparatus.
P r e s s u r e , t e m p e r a t u r e a n d m olar ratio control is vital to the yield.
Y o u r a m m o n ia will be b l o o d y e x p e n s i v e c o m p a r e d t o i n d u s t r i a l .
Ollie Snowie October 12th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 2 : 2 0 P M

Originally posted by vulture
This needs very high pressure a n d a t e m perature of 900C. Good luck constructing a reactor that'll withstand that.
-I know that this is true for m e t h a n e + s t e a m , b u t I t h o ught that carbon + steam could be done at 1atm. Oh well, I hate
b u y i n g c h e m s a n d I ' m q u i t e o bsessive about it. I don't think anyone else here is quite THAT obsessive. I'd electrolyse water!
My motto - Electricity is cheap. :)

Nope. The oxygen will com bine explosively with any H2 at the tem peratures you're working with. Furtherm ore, the spark or
platinum will assure ignition of any H2/O2 mixtures!
-There won't be m uch oxygen so the rection will be very diluted. That's why I thought I m ight need a catalyst.

C O 2 is soluble in water, but not that good. I su g g e s t u s i n g a C a C O3 solution (as this can be recycled, whereas NaOH cannot).
-When I thought "carbonic acid", fizzy drinks sprung to m ind, so I couldn 't help m entioning the pop bottle. This would still be
u n d e r p r e s s u r e , s o a c o n s i d e r a b l e a m ount of C O2 would dissolve. Anyway, The low solubility of CO2 would not m atter m uch
here, because the carbonic acid would be neutralized by the am m onia as it forme d, bringing it awa y from the equilibrium a s
a m monium carbonate. That was the whole point of having the CO 2 in there (apart from it being pointless to rem ove).
Since when was limestone, CaC O3 soluble in water?! And where did the NaO H com e into it? I don't get what you m e a n a b o u t
u s i n g C a C O 3 solution (if it exists) instead of CO 2. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough on m y p revious posts.

The equilibrium is strongly to the left here.
-What? An acid/base neutralization recation favouring the acid/b a s e m ixture to the salt? I know it will ionize to -NH4 and -CO3
a n d b o t h o f t h e s e a r e g a s e s i n s o l u t i o n , b u t t h i s i s a s a lt from a w e a k b a s e a n d a w e a k a c i d , s o n o t m uch will ionize. I'm
probably wrong on this one.
I d o n ' t s u p p o s e a n y o n e e l s e h e r e w a n t s t o s y n t h e s i s e t h e i r o w n a m m onia via Haber and I only wanted it fo r nitric acid. I

suppose I'll just have to use the arc process to do it. I wasn't seriously thinking of a hom e a m m onia plant at this stage but
this process could still be developed. I still have a chem istry project to do at school and don't know what field to do it in yet. ;)

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Where do you want to go from here?
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TreverSlyFox October 3rd, 2003, 10:09 AM

This is more of a question for the younger members. Ok, your interested in explosives and have gained a lot of knowledge here but what do you plan to do in the future? Are
you looking to go to a Mining collage and a degree that will let you play with "Legal" explosives. Maybe the military as an EOD officer, or getting into the pyrotechnics field
either doing displays or maybe even making the pyros? Of course there's always HollyWood and the FX field or working for one of the major manufacturers of explosives as a
reasearch chemist.
If your planning on continuing in the explosives field, where do you see youself in 5, 10 or 20 years? You'll notice I've left out Mad Bomber, Terrorist or Safe Man and such. If
that's your goal then it's better left unanswered.
Lil_Guppy October 3rd, 2003, 11:21 AM

I would actually like to get into the pyrotechnics industry, be it fireworks/display, or something like SFX.
knowledgehungry October 3rd, 2003, 02:46 PM

I want to go into civilian bomb squad, not military because fuck being away from your wife for 2 years.
FireFly October 3rd, 2003, 02:49 PM

I intend to get in the field of Synthetic Organic Chemistry after college. As far as any work with explosives, I will get my BATFE type 20 HE License after I turn 21 and perhaps
make and sell explosives to other licensed people simply to pay for my hobby, but by no means as a career. I plan on moving to Florida and opening a zoological attraction
after my job as a chemist makes enough money for me to do so. I will live on the park and on my free time work on fuel cells, and ofcourse set off some charges to awake
the animals. :) I also intend to do some "experiments" on my personal pets.

I've often considered trying to give my career a shove towards pyro, and I might try for a job at well known firework manufacturer/displayer. Two things concern me - one is
that they'll tell me to get lost since I have no formal qualifications related to the subject (not even chemistry above GCSE). Or that I wouldn't enjoy it as career, doing it day in
day out.
Mining I think would be like that, drill hole, insert cartiridge, retire to super safe distance, fire, repeat adnauseum.
I think without the freedom and some of the thrill which comes from improvisation/clandestine activity, it might become boring after a while.
zaibatsu October 3rd, 2003, 08:21 PM

Investment banking. Retire at 40 with an 18 year old :D
THErAPIST October 3rd, 2003, 11:16 PM

knowledgehungry , I've talkd to a police chief before to ask what I would have to do to become a bomb technician for this area because my state as far as I know of doesnt
have one bomb squad... The chief told me that neither his department or any other department that he knew of would hire anyone to be a bomb tech unless they had military
training. I imagine theres a way to get around this but without SOME military disposal training, you might just be fucked.
Personally since I can't forsee me being a bomb tech as I would like, I'm thinking about getting my HE license in 2 years and then messing around with HE's during my
freetime. I'll most likely end up having a regular ole job with maybe a display fireworks job as a side job... Maybe...
knowledgehungry October 4th, 2003, 12:18 AM

I might go into forensics instead, I still have a few years left to decide, something with chem/engineering
blindreeper October 4th, 2003, 12:50 AM

I would really like to become a explosives chemist. Like work on developing better and safer explosives. But I have no idea on who to contact or anything. Any ideas?
TreverSlyFox October 4th, 2003, 07:25 AM

Blindreeper,
Just off the top of my head I'ed contact the Major Explosives Manufacturer's Like DOW Chemicel, 3M etc. Maybe just an e-mail to their explosive division would do the trick. I
just saw a kid (13yr old) on PBS that contacted the company that built that new suspension bridge saying he really wanted to be an engineer when he grew up and build
bridges. They e-mailed him back and invited him to tour their facility, bought him lunch and sat and talked to him about what education he would need, what collage to go to,
the whole bit. Even told him that when he had his degree to contact them again for a job.
You may not get that kind of responce buy it doesn't hurt to try and they can't say yes if you don't ask.
mongo blongo October 4th, 2003, 12:28 PM

I'm gona carry on with my band and see what comes out of it. Then maybe a producer or I could go back to uni and do a degree in chem.Hopefully my wife hasn't even been
born yet.
T_Pyro October 4th, 2003, 06:31 PM

Well, to tell the truth, I'm more into electronics than chem, so I'll most probably end up designing chips (the silicon types, not the potato ones ;) )... Pyrotechnics will continue
to be my hobby, though- I always enjoyed mixing (and burning!) stuff.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > AP newbie q u e s t i o n s
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SKSguy October 3rd, 2003, 06:22 PM

Ive been lurking around here now and then trying to learn all I can from reading through hours of posts etc. Am interested in
m a k i n g a s m all am o u n t o f A P . I h a v e r e a d m a n y p o s t s r e g a r d i n g t h e m atter and have studied different recipes. I a lso have
m ade sense of the reaction in m y h e a d a n d u n derstand the different acids that can be used etc. Im p l a n n i n g o n u s i n g 3 0 %
H 2 O 2 , 1 0 0 % p u r e a c e t o n e a n d I g u e s s 3 0 % H C L . T h e r e a s o n I m g u e s s i n g o n t h e H C L i s b e c a u s e I h a v e n e v e r b o u ght the
stuff so I dont know how it is to find here in Canuckle land.
Here are my questions:
1. Is AP safe enuff to m ake crackers with. Maybe M80 sized? (I dont wan t to blow a nut off with a couple in my pock et.
2. Does AP n eed to be tamped or can it be loose like flash in a cracker.
P l e a s e k e e p i n m i n d I m a complete ro okie, that has no access to aluminum powder, or I would use that. Also I have seen
s o m e very in telligent ppl in this forum that are no doubt highly educated. Im not a scientist, or a chemist. But I have taken
g r a d e 1 2 c h e m a n d d id just fine so Im not reta rded with regard to this stuff, just a bit app rehensive and always careful.
I m p l a n n i n g o n u s i n g these crackers this halloween, and would like to ge t started asap.

Thank you very m uch for any inform ation you may im part to a lowly sparkler country resident.
(I think sparklers are still legal in Canada arent they?........Probably not...lol
Hang-Man October 3rd, 2003, 07:02 PM

I dont want to blow a nut off with a couple in my pocket.
W ord of advice; NEVER put anything discussed on this forum in your pocket. If the explosive is safe enough to do this with it,
it s no t worth m aking. :D
If I take to long writing this, the thread will be deleted by the tim e I post. But better you get your questions answered than
blow your fingers off screwing it up because nobody wou ld help the NOOO O O B . I m a k e m y AP with the same concentrations you
d o , 3 5 % H 2 O 2 , 1 0 0 % a c e t o n e a n d 3 5 % H C l, so I know what will happen.
Poin ters:
MAKE IT OU TSIDE
Mix two of the chems in a sm all bowl, put that bowl in a larger bowl filed with crushed ice/water Add the third chem ical
S L O W LY, in short burs ts, pour it down the side o f t h e b owl, don t pour it in like your putting m ilk on your cereal; HCl will blind
you with ease, and H2O2 is not nice either.
If you burn your self when you light a m atch, you may want to wear gloves, HCl leaves your skin white and bubbly
I cover m y solution while it reacts, to p revent animals drinking from it or som e o t h e r s u c h g a r b a g e .
C o m e back in an a few hours and pour the solution through a coffee filte r or some high m esh fabric
W ash, neutralize, wash , neutralize... I just dip the coffee filter with the AP in it into two bowls of baking soda solution and
distilled wate r repeatedly.
Spread out the white paste and let it air dry. Don t u s e a hair d r y e r n o m atter how im p a t i e n t y o u a r e .
W hen it s a b o u t t h e consistency of we t flower, take a k nife point of it and light it, it shou l d p o p a n d s e n d a s m all fireball out,
this confirm s y o u d i d n t screw it up, and its fun.
My first crack er was a .223 cartage fille d, not packed, with AP, I rigged it to my timer and bam . AP is good fun but I never
really liked working with it.
I m p l a n n i n g o n u s i n g these crackers this halloween
NO. you can't store it for one, and it would kill/m aim the children. so just no.
I a s s u m e nobody else will respond to this post, save to insult/ban you. but Canadians have to help each other in this
unfriendly land..
Al Nobel October 3rd, 2003, 07:08 PM

First post + new topic = bad m istake.
If you want to make crackers use flash powder or BP.It`s not that difficult to find Al-Powde r.
Learn how to handle BP and flash never start with AP.

Y e s , b y " C o m p l e t e R o o k i e " I a s s u m e d you ment "I have been working with black/flash po wder I took from rom a n c a n d l e s f o r a
while and think that I am ready to m a k e t o m o ve to m o r e a d v a n c e d e x p l o s i v e s " i f y o u r e a l l y h a v e N O e x p e r i a n c e t h e n g o b u y
s o m e candles/fountians/other cheep fireworks and a ba g of plaster paris. this is how I started.
blindreeper October 3rd, 2003, 10:24 PM

I a d m it the questions were no t the brightest, but if you see that he has been registered since April this yea r and has not
p o s t e d , t h a t m e a n s h e h a s r e a d a r o u n d a b i t . H a n g - m an you act as if you were a n o l d e r m e m ber talking about him getting
o u t o f h e r e a n d h e ' s a c o m p l e t e n 0 0 b . R e m eber your still new, accually he has been registered longer than you.
Is it just m e or are th e newbies thinking that after 5 posts they are above everyone and can tell th e m t o g o r e a d r u l e s a n d
that they'll be banned? I am seeing it a lot here which is getting annoying. So newbies take a step back an d look at yourself,
your taking every opportunity to tell people the y are going to ge t banned. Like in this thread, I wouldn't ban him if I were a
m o d b e c a u s e h e h a s r e a d a r o und a bit. The older m e m bers tend to 'help' the newbies out or tell them if they are going to get
b a n n e d b e c a use we know what is a good HED a pplicant.
But back on topic...

I would never make AP cracke r s u l e s s I w a s b o r e d a n d u s e d t h e c r a c k e r a s s o o n a s I m a d e it just ot throw around the yard. BP
crackers are easy to m a k e a s l o n g a s y o u h a v e t h e r i g h t confine ment. I m a d e a B P p o l u m a (sp?) whoch was pretty impressive.
A n d y o u s a y y o u h a v e n o a l u m i n i u m powder. Search for a thread entitled "Easy Aluminium powder, honest"
SKSguy October 3rd, 2003, 11:29 PM

T h a n k y o u f o r a l l t h e h e l p . I h a v e d o n e q u i t e a few experim ents with Flash powders, and I really like the stuff. I just have a
hard tim e g e tting the ingredie nts. Nam ely the Al Ox. I have read the "Easy Alum inum powder" thread. Seem s like a fine idea.
Ill definatly give it a try. I app ologize if I posted incorrectly or asked the wrong questions. I m ost definately respect the
p r o f e s s i o n a l i s m of this board and its m e m bers. Im a h o b b y b a n ger.... I love things that go boom . Ill try to k e e p m y p o s t s
proper and respect all the rules.
T h a n k s a g a i n , I l l l i k e l y r e m a i n a 1 0 f i n g e r e d n e w b t h a n k s t o t h e g o o d f o lks here. Im not the irresponsible type, and Bloody

stum p Noob, just doe snt have the right ring.... I like 10Fingered Noob better.
SKS
Hang-Man October 4th, 2003, 12:29 AM

I wouldn't ba n h i m i f I w e r e a m o d b e c a u s e h e h a s r e a d a r o u n d a b i t .
Are you kidding! you guys have torn apart far better questions! "Hi, I want to m a k e s o m e crackers out of AP, carry them in my
pocket, and throw them aroun d on Halloween" No. this post should not exist. At the very least it should be a water cooler post.
I k n ow I'm n ew, but t h a t d o e s n t m e a n I d o n t know anyth ing, especially co m p a r e d t o s o m e o n e w h o l i s t s " g r a d e 1 2

chemistry" as a crede ntial.

I w o u l d n o t b a n h i m f o r t h e s o l e r e a s o n t h a t h e h a s l u r k e d a n d r e a d a l o t of stuff. I would probably give him a warn ing.
This is gettin g off top ic and I think the questions have been answered so there is no reason to reply or con tinue this bickering!
SKSguy October 4th, 2003, 01:19 AM

Look at this way. I will never ask a question in here again. Im officially a lurker. I thought you were here to h e l p p p l k e e p t h eir
hands on. I know it was an irresponsible scenario I was projecting with my questions. I was just lea d to believe AP was
reasonably safe by way of reading m any posts about it. It just seem e d t o m e t h a t it m i g h t b e a v i a b l e o p t i o n f o r m a k i n g s o m e
m ean crackers. Obviously I was wrong.
As for m y education level.... well Hangm an you dont know a fucking thing about me... Just because I didnt major in chemistry,
I still sport a degree or 2.
T h e o n l y r e a s o n I m e n t i o n e d c h e m 12 was to give everyone an idea of m y level of knowldege with regard to chemistry. I at
least know a EM flask from a m ortar and pestal.
I dont really care wha t you think of m e anyway. You sound like an errogant prick....81 Booooyyy
Everyone else ....peace and thank you for not ripping m y h e a d o f f , I r e a l i z e t h e m i s t a k e I m ade with this p ost and it wont
happen again.

At least it was in the "Other explosives" section , which is where AP goes. :rolleyes:
W ater cooler for sure, and closed since the que s t i o n h a s b e e n a n s w e r e d .
A s k a n o t h e r s t u p i d q u e s t i o n a nd you're gone.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Snow Machine
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peterthesmart October 3rd, 2003, 06:35 PM

It's startin to get cold here again.. 20 the past few nights. I've b een wanting to build a snow making m a c h i n e s i n c e I ' m u s e d t o
it from where I used to live (NY). O ut here in MN it gets pretty cold around -20 in the winter but barely any snow. I was
wondering if you guys had any input or design suggestions, I've searched the internet but I lack an air com pressor. I already
have a pressure washer which is one of the key compon ents. Since it gets cold he re is there any way I could get away without
an air com pressor? I got som e s m a l l e n g i n e s s i t t i n g a r o u n d s o I m ight b e able to use the m for som ething. Thanks for your
help and input.
grammarless October 3rd, 2003, 06:46 PM

I don't know if this actually wo rks, but a friend claimed that he u s e d t h e " m ist" function on a garden watering wand on a sub-
zero d a y , a n d g o t s o m e s n o w . T o m a k e a lot of snow with this m ethod you would have to run it all the time , and probably ru n
it from a tap inside with warm water.

why do you want snow? m ake a snow man and fill his head with PETN? sn owballs soaked with nitro?
peterthesmart October 3rd, 2003, 07:58 PM

Not a bad idea for helpin the kids out at snow ball fights wit the neighbors, it's just always fun to have something your
neig hbors don't and to remind you of what a re al winter is like.
YayItGoBoom! October 13th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 2 4 P M

S o m e ski com panies use a certain bacteria in the water to cause it to crystalize at a higher tem perature. But it sounds cold
enough there that you wouldn't need it. As far as I know you don't need super high pressure water, just tap water run throug h
a sp ray nozzle would work. You could also take one of those engines you have lying around, get a nice fan blade, and use the
air blast to blow the water m ist into the air so its fully frozen before it hits the ground.
Sparky October 13th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 1 : 1 9 P M

From what I've seen at ski hills, they have a fairly simple system of spraying water up into the air on a cold night. It's fun to
visit the ski hill when they have these snow makers running.
But what I really wanted to say is that you will not get snow that is very good compared to (the many kinds of) real snow. Fake
snow is obviously fake, but I suppose it's bette r than nothing. It would be neat to be the only person on your street with snow,
especially at Christm as tim e :) .
A h y e s , b a c k i n t h e d a y I r e m e m ber when my friends dad would take out his chain saw and saw up sections of the packed
down snow in the school yard. Then we 'd build stuff out of the m any blocks, then have snowball fig hts and whatnot from t h e s e
snow buildings. W e had to sto p b e c a u s e s o m e m o r o n ( n o d o u b t ; ) ) g o t a b l o c k d r o p p e d o n h i s h e a d a n d g o t a c o n c u s s i o n .
W e a l s o u s e d t o m a k e big ice slides by tapping into the school water supply and flooding the snow hills...

I'd use warm water, a s this'll freeze faster and will form smaller crystals.
Yes, warm water freezes faster than co ld water, try it yourself.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C reating a FTP server
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Nehebkhau October 3rd, 2003, 11:50 PM

I did a quick search for this on the forum and the web and there s e e m s t o b e m a ny program s and ways to do this, but I was
just wondering if anyone could give m e their opinion on the best and most effective way to do this. Thx
James October 4th, 2003, 05:21 AM

Ask yourself what system you would be running it on, how much you're willing to invest/learn, and how many people you plan
to have conn ected simultaneo usly. You should also check out Google, Tucows and freshmeat.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Does It Really Matter?
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green beret October 4th, 2003, 05:49 AM

I a m plannin g on making a ball mill, and have been reading up on different constructions etc.
T h e r e a r e s o m any different ways and opinions, and I want to know, does it really m atter about the type of m otor used etc. as
long as it turns the m ill rapidly enough? I have looked at a few ways on the net, and I was talking to someone who claim e d t o
h a v e m a d e o n e b e f o r e a n d h e s a i d " O h well yo u n e e d t h i s a n d i t h a s t o b e t h i s s i z e a n d d o t h i s m any RPM's" etc. and I
thought what does it really m atter, as long as it m akes good BP. It would obviously be alot easier if one could simply m a k e u p
thier own design. All feedback would be much appreciated.
PS. Sorry I think this m ight belong in the pyro section.

W ell in m y e x p e r i e n c e m e s s i n g with all fancy cogs and and wheels and driving shafts is all too com p l e x .
This is the ultimate simple ballm ill (http://www.geocities.com /blindreeper_chem istry/ballmill.JPG)!(sorry you have to copy and
paste into browser) Yeap thats my girl, 100g BP in 1/2 hour :D
All it is, is a windscreen wiper m otor rip ped from a toyota corrola (old school corrola ;)) I got a nice bit of 4 inch dia PVC pipe
for the drum with an end cap that I glued on. T his has a hole drilled in it which connects directly to the shaft of the m otor. Then
I h a v e a n o t h er end cap which I just push on ha rd when I am milling and it stays on pretty well as long as you push it down as
far as it goes. My milling media is show in the pic which is 40 sin kers I got from crazy clarks (national cheapo store in Austra lia
y o u s h o u l d b e fim iliar with gre en beret) After a few millings the sinkers got round and the holes diappeared, but if you wanted
to you could always jsut run the m ill for a day with jsut media in it and they would be nice and round and "holeless"
I recomend 60 sinkers (they come in packs of 20) because you could do 200g of BP with 60 because 40 sinekrs seems to
strugle a bit with 200g...
A last note the drum is jsut sitting on some bits of wood and the dowel is only ther to stop it rolling away. Y es the drum wears
out a bit but you'll ha ve to replace it only once a year if that depending on how m uch you use it - seeing as it's so cheap to
m a k e ( t h e d r u m ) i t d o e s n ' t m atter tha t it wears out.
W ell thats my alterna tive :D h o p e i t h e l p e d a l l t h o s e o u t there wanting a cheap ballm ill which is really easy to make

Thanks Blinreeper! Thats very helpful, its shown me tha t it dosent have to be com plicated. How does your BP go? Is it suitable
for bursting and lifting etc? An yhow, cheers.:)
PS. Do you m ill your powder dry, or with dextrin e or water?
Cheers!:D
Edit; How do you press your powder after milling? I think I will just use two boards then ba ck the car over it, thats what I did for
t h e C I A m e t h o d a n y h ow.
S o m ething else that just occurred to m e, being a windscreen wiper motor, does it do full revolutions or just go back and forth,
and is it less efficient if it goes back and forth?

My BP goes sweet! I would consider m y BP good for lifting as dem onstrated here (http://www.geocities.com /
blindreeper_chemistry/starmines.html) with some starm ines. Seeing as those stars are go ing 30m+ high with only 20g of m y
BP I think it perform s well. I h avn't tried it as a bursting chrage because I am not up to shells quite yet. W o r k i n g o n r o u n d s
stars first.
BTW I granulate my BP the same way EP (http://krim zo npyro.com /ep/projectsdevicesdir/b lackpowder.html) does, except I
don't add any dextrin . Just straight BP:) Another sim ple but effe ctive way of doing things. Even though I have a press I
couldn't be b othered pressing BP and waiting for it to dry (EP's way I can have it dry in 2 hours on a hot day, hell alm ost
everyday here is hot we are sem i dese rt :rolleyes:) And this way you get a m ore consistent powder because the grain size is
m ostly the sam e.
T h e B P p e r f o rm s well in rockets (click here (http://www.geocities.com /blin dreeper_chem istry/BP_rocket.avi) for a movie of one
1/4 of the ca sing full of BP going at night)
About m illing, since I make m y own ch arcoal it's in 'sticks' (cooked bits o f pine in a charco al cooker) I put the 15g of charcoal
sticks in for about 1 mintues and then after that add the KNO3 and Sulfu r and probably go another 1/2 hour. Then once it's
done I pour it into a strainer to get the m edia out. You may find a couple of bits of charcoal that d idn't crush in the mill or
KNO3 for that matter. W h a t I d o i s g e t t h e p e s t l e f r o m a m o r t a r a n d p e s t l e a n d g rind the charcoal/KNO3 through the strainer
and mill it for another 10 m inutes.
I don't add any water or dextrin because I add the minute am ount of water one time and all the BP clum p e d t o t h e s i d e s o f
the m ill and didn't m ill just go t com pacted by the media so I scraped the water id e a .
W ell thats about it. If you want to chat or som thing em ail m e through the forum system .

W indscreen wiper motors continously rotate in the sam e direction like m ost motors, only the linkage to the wipers gives the
back and worth motio n (works on a cam ).
Ball mills don't have to be complex. All you rea lly need is a m otor than you can run, so mains powedered, or say 12v and can
be run from a car battery charger or a power su pply you have ha ndy. It n eeds to be powerful to turn your m illing jar without
overheating. wiper m otors for cars are around 50W and blindreepers turn s a r e a s o n a b l e s i z e d j a r o k . T h e p ower of your m otor
and the weight of your jar just need to be m atched.
Finally you need some gearing to turn the jar a t a r e a s o n a b l e s p e e d . T o o f a s t a n d y o u g e t a centrifuge and no BP :) So
m otors like wipers with built in gear reduction are simplest, or co b b l e s o m ething together from sim ple belt and pulleys.
Mine was built from photocopier parts, bought from m y local junk shop. The m otor is only 40W, runs on m ains power, and
lucky for m e h a d a 1 1 : 1 r e d u c t i o n b o x o n t h e o u t p u t . I t h a n d l e s m y 6 k g o f l e a d m edia with no effort. I can m ill 1/2 k g o f B P a t
once.
The rubber rollers already had m atching bearings and sprockets attached. I got the chain from the copier too. All very easy,
and very cheap.

Once again thanks all. Blindre eper, those starm i n e s a r e a w e s o m e! I'm g o i n g t o h a v e a g o a t t h e m a s s o o n a s I m a k e s o m e
BP. So with youre powder, you just m ill it then press the straight BP throu gh a sieve? Very good! I cant wait to make s o m e star
m ines.
Edit; Blindreeper, can you em a i l m e a b o u t t h e z i n c p o w d e r ? T h a n k s .

After I mill it i wet it with 25% metho in 75% water. You don;t want it to be runny but jsut enough to stick together.
I a m afraid I don;t have you em ail address, sorry. If your the one who em ailed m e a b o u t " b a c t o " s o m e m o n t h s a g o t h e n I
have your address.
green beret October 10th , 2003, 01:36 AM

O K T h a n k s . I t h i n k I e m ailed you about bacto, just try anyway, m y em ail should be in my profile.
Cheers.
Thanks for everyones help on this.
blindreeper October 10th , 2003, 04:23 AM

Ema il addresses are no longer displayed in profiles. Ahh hell, heres mine anyway - blindthug@hotmail.com

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > copper am m onium com p l e x ?
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bobo October 4th, 2003, 09:40 AM

I h a v e a f l e x ible copper tube I bent into a spiral and used it to distill booze. Depending on the am ount of heat supplied, this
colum n is capable of reasonably fast 2 0-30% a lcohol (b y taste) from 5% beer (as a calibration) and m ore if I am willing to wait
long (which I am usually not).
T h e n I d i s t i l l e d a m m onia with it, big m i s t a k e b e c a u s e t h e g a s o f c o u r s e d i d n o t c o n d e n s e b u t c o m e o u t a s g a s . B u t t h e

concentrated am monia was nicely blue as was the alcohol I got from this colum n t h e n e x t t i m e .
Now I wonder what kind of (copper) com p o u n d t h i s c a n b e , a n d m ore im portantly, if this com po und c a n be put t o s o m e u s e . . .
megalomania October 4th, 2003, 12:28 PM

In m y last post here:
http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1894&perpage=50&highlight=copper%20am m o n i a & p a g e n u m ber=2
I d i s c u s s t h e v e r y s a m e p r o b l e m as I ran am m onia through m y catalytic reactor. The compound you have obtained is
h e x a a q u a c o m p o u n d . T o f i n d o u t m o r e a b o u t t h e c h e m istry involved with am m onia coppe r com ple xes go to this website which
e x p l a i n s t h e c h e m istry far better than I ever co uld:
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/inorganic/transition/copper.html
As for the usefulness of the com pound, I believe it is rather useless. I turned mine into copper oxide in m y f u r n a c e . O h I a m
sure s o m e o n e s o m ewhere can find a use for th e stuff, but I kno w of no explosive, pyrotechnic, or synthetic use for it.

How about converting it into copper chloride (for coloured flam es in fireworks) by adding HC l to it? I prepare m y copper chloride
by a dding dil.HCl to tetram ine copper hydroxide until the solution turns green, then drying it out.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Mr-Eckted is back
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Mr-Eckted October 4th, 2003, 08:25 PM

W ell, i'm back.
S o m e o f y o u m ight remem ber m e. I was the guy who had all of that sm o k e m ixture.
As it turns out, the guy who gave m e all the m ixture had a friend who is a major prick.
T o m a k e a l o n g s t o r y s h o r t , h e b r o u g h t s o m e u n w a n t e d a t t e n t i o n on me, and I thought it would be wise to avoid any
pyro technic websites for a while. Good to be back.
nbk2000 October 4th, 2003, 09:33 PM

And this deserves a new topic? :rolleyes:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > hypobrom ites
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O k f o r m m y chem istry coursework project, i require som e s o d i u m or calcium hypobrom ite. I have searched the length and
breadth of google and have found various m entions of these chem icals being used in pool care and similar, but i have been
unable to find a com pany that sells hypobrom i t e s . d o e s a n y o n e k n o w o f a c o m pany that sells hypobromite.
although it's not essential to buy hypobrom ite, i'd rathe r just buy a box of it than have to make m yself up a batch in m y
garage using BCDMH tablets

Y o u s h o u l d b e a b l e t o f i n d h y p o b r o m i t e s s o l d a t p o o l a n d s p a s t o r e s . B r o m ides in general are m o s t l y u s e d f o r s p a s , I h a v e
n e v e r s e e n a n y o n e u s e b r o m i n e c o m p o u n d s f o r pools. You could probably m a k e s o d i u m o r p o t a s s i u m hypobromite by
electrochem icially con verting sodium bromide the same way they m ake bleach. You'll have to look up how to m a k e b l e a c h , b u t
there should be plenty out there. You can get NaBr at W al-Mart by the pound for cheap.
zeocrash October 6th, 2003, 04:19 AM

i thought the y put hypobromite in spas, but aparently they put Brom o, chloro-5,5-dim ethylhydanto in
in spas, which converts to hypobromite and hypochlorite over tim e

i know i shouldn't reply to m y own m essage, but no one will see what i have to sa y unless i do so what the hell
i've decided to produce hypobrom ite by mixing liquid brom ine with a volume of known con centratio n NaOH solution.
to m a k e t h e b r o m ine i take the BC DMH tablets and mix them with acid while heating the m ixture, to make sure tha t all the
b r o m i n e v a p o u r i s e s . t h e m ixture of ga s s e s ( b r o m ine and chlorine) is the n cooled causing the brom ine to liquify while the
chlorine stays gasseo us. the brom ine is tapped off the bottom and collected.
d o e s a n y o n e know if chlorine is soluab le in liqu id brom ine.
if it is i would have to adjust the design of my condenser.

H a v e y o u p r o d u c e d b r o m i n e b y this m e t h o d y e t ? I f s o , d e t a i l s a r e n e e d e d, becau s e b r o m i n e h a s o t h e r u s e s in m a k i n g
p o w e r f u l t e a r - g a s e s a n d d r u g s , s o a n O T C m e t h o d o f m aking it would be very useful.
IPN October 7th, 2003, 05:28 PM

Y o u c a n m ake bromine by oxidizing NaBr solution with chlorine.
2 Br(aq) + Cl2(g) --> Br2(l) + 2Cl(aq)
Then just distill off the bromine.:)

I was referring to the use of BC DMH. I know you can m a k e b r o m ine from b r o m i d e s a l t s u s i n g t h e s a m e p r o c e s s a s i s u s e d t o
o b t a i n e l e m ental iodine from iodide salts by bleach/peroxide.

That is a very intriguing process to make Br from B C D M H . B C D M H h a s o t h e r s o u r c e s b e s i d e s s p a c h e m icals, it also finds use as
toile t bowl tank sanitizer usually in the form of toilet bowl drop ins. Such things are quite ubiquitous and likely to rem a i n a
consumer product for many years yet. Ultim ately any OTC source of brom ine is valuable b ecause it is so limited, kn owing how
to get pure Br from a n O T C s u b s t a n c e i s v a l u a b l e i n d e e d.
IPN October 8th, 2003, 05:35 PM

NBK:
O h o k , I g u e ss I m isread you post :(
Btw. is that BCDMH bromo-chlorodim ethylhydantoin?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > RDX by acetic and para
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Nevermore October 5th, 2003, 05:04 PM

Did anyone perform RDX synthesis using acetic anydhride and para as described in mega website?
If yes, i wish to know about the yelds, i've to buy acetic and para, since hno3 is a lil tricky to get...

HNO3 is tricky to get:confused: Try getting acetic anhydride.

I got 5 liters of 55-58% HNO3, industrial grade, the most concentrated i can get not showing my id and getting listed.
The biggest problem for me is Hexamine, absolutely impossible to get here, i found another name for hexamine is urotropine, but damn, no chemistry still holds that, and even
if it will have too high price since for medical use.
So i was thinking about following Mega way, making hexamine from acetic anydride and paraformaldehyde, however, acetic anidryde is still possible to get, para is not, since is
registered over here...
Is there any other way to get hexamine?
Rhadon October 12th, 2003, 02:23 PM

Nevermore, I'm sure that you mixed some things up here: The acetic anhydride / paraformaldehyde process isn't supposed to yield hexamine, for the latter you would use
formaldehyde and NH3. Would be nice if you could give me a link to the page you're referring to, perhaps that can clear things up.
If getting hexamine is what you want, doing a SEARCH on the forum could have taught you that hexamine is sold under the brand name Esbit, and a search on Google could
have revealed that this particular product is sold in Italy. I did the work for you and searched www.google.it for "esbit". The top-ranked result is this (http://
www.campershop.it/product209.html). Next time you can do it yourself, okay?

Thank you very much Rhadon, i didn't even have a clue about a hexamine fuel brand, and if you didn't help for sure i was still searching for it..now that i know the brand
name, i found who is the reseller in my town, so i don't have to buy online, i can just go there and pick them up.
Since you know already about that, do you know if the sticks are wax covered or they are pure, since if wax covered i will choose the bigger ones for easier cleaning.
Well, thank you again.
:rolleyes:

Since you know already about that, do you know if the sticks are wax covered or they are pure,... Esbit contains a small amount of wax as a binder. For details on purification
do a search. I was able to find it, so you are either.

yep no problem, my first idea: hex is soluble in water, wax no.
anyway i will search right now!
zeocrash October 13th, 2003, 05:11 AM

does the wax even matter in the nitration, it's pretty inert stuff, i'm not sure NA would have any effect on it.
Nevermore October 14th, 2003, 03:28 AM

i don't think the NA can penetrate the wax so, or you'd get a incomplete nitration.
however i didn't realize that i've only 58% HNO3 and is not enough...
tatiana December 4th, 2003, 11:56 AM

Nevermore.
I've successfully made hexamine in large quantities using 37% formalin solution and 25% ammonium hydroxide solution. Formalin used to preserve dead animal matter in bio
labs, and common ammonia, these should be commonly available and cheap! Just throw them together, it'll heat up a little and apply heat to boil it down, not too hot, to get a
crystalline paste and leave to dry. There's your hexamine.
On another note, I've read one can azeotrope water away from a nitration on the TNT synthesis thread from the HE forum without using H2SO4. (posted by Rosco Bodine)
Anybody know if this concept could be applied to RDX synth??
Rosco Bodine December 5th, 2003, 02:28 PM

The instability of the nitrolysis by products would complicate
azeotroping water from an RDX synthesis . The scheme by
which a nitrolysis proceeds is the reverse of what is needed
for nitrations , that is a nitrolysis operates according to first
reactions which are favored by anhydrous acid at the very beginning ,
whereas the reverse is true for nitrations . So my guess is that
no the technique would not be useful for nitrolysis of hexamine .
chemistr1 December 5th, 2003, 05:45 PM

Why are so many people having problems getting hexamine when it s commonly available from all online Uk army and navy shops as surplus British Forces solid fuel stoves at
around 2 for 8 ounces. (8X1 ounce wax covered blocks) and they are almost pure wax covered blocks of hexamine. And what are esbit blocks? I have about 7 kilos of Hexi
blocks I picked up at a Sunday market for about 25pence per half pound pack:)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Detonating Chlorates
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Sonny Jim October 6th, 2003, 07:10 AM

I'm facing the problem of m y AN supply drying out for a while. Therefore, I'm e a g e r t o f i n d a s m a n y s u s b s t i t u t e s a s p o s s i b l e
before that may happen.
I ' v e b e e n t h i n k i n g a b out detonating chlorates, as there is no way I'll ever run out of those. Now, I've heard bits and pieces
a b o u t t h i s a n d s e a r c h e d t h e f o r u m , b u t I havn't really cam e up with anything detailed eno ugh that I could follow and draw a
success from .
I k n o w s o m e of you know! So please fire away if you can spare the tim e.
DBSP October 6th, 2003, 08:32 AM

I know Madog tried detonating chlorate/vasline charges using PETN dets som e tim e ago, with vario us success. Don't remem b e r
what the topic was called though.
F o u n d s o m ething at least:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33&highlight=chlorate+vaseline
try searching for chlorate + vaseline and the lik e.
Sonny Jim October 6th, 2003, 12:10 PM

Ah thanks DBSP. My search was dircted at 'deto nating chlorates' and m issed that topic entirely. I wrote that off as kewl balls,
s e e m ingly not!

NaClO3 with 20%-25% Nitrom e t h a n e a n d a 1 - 2 g m AP or HMTD cap will behave m uch like ANNM.
You don't even need to powder the chlorate, although it won't absorb all the NM a nd I speculate that power is reduced.
W orks with KNO 3, NaNO3 etc too.
Sonny Jim October 21st, 2003, 11:49 AM

I have been speaking to a few people who have tried chlorates and only got partial dets. Thing was, they were all 100g or less
charges. So I was thinking, if you treated chlorate comp ositions like ANFO, in that large amounts a re used in a wide container
for best results, it m ight work better. W hat do you think ?
Anthony October 21st, 2003, 01:20 PM

The experiements I did were with ~100gm quantities in plastic b a g s .
Sonny Jim October 21st, 2003, 01:49 PM

Did it work as well as Madog's charge of that size, or did you suffer partial dets?

Full dets :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C rO3 Ideas?
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Cyclonite October 6th, 2003, 07:56 AM

I cam e across a liberal am ount of CrO3 (99%). Any ideas that com e to m ind? Also any special precautions that are not listed
on the MSDS? Also id like to m ail it, its a nice find. Any good ide as on that? It will be checked befo re its sent.
Liberal am ount = 5lbs of a very powerful oxidizer
bubbling_beaker October 6th, 2003, 08:21 PM

Hi,
I s i t C h r o m i u m T r i o x i d e y o u h a v e o r a C h r o m a t e o f s o m e type? I have h eard of CrO3/Methanol co mbusting well, i have tried
to do searches on this com p o s i t i o n , i f o u n d s o m e l i n k s b u t i c o u l d n t o p e n t h e m i predict that it would release lots of energy in
a s h ort tim e span, probably serving as a good rocket propellant? :confused: , personally i would be more than happy to
convert som e into K2CrO3 and use it as an efficiency enchancer for a chlorate cell, it could e v e n b e u s e d i n o r g a n i c s y n t h e s i s
and reactions ;).My knowlege is lim ited in exotic things as such.
h e r e s s o m e links i think you might find useful:
http://m arian.creighton.edu/~geistkec/uses.htm l
http://www.roguesci.org/archive/129_6-27.htm l
(btw can som eone tell me how to do the sub te xt tag, i searched but i got nothing, thankyou in advance)
++++++
Sub- and Super- scripting has been disabled. NBK

Its chrom ium trioxide

Y o u c o u l d u s e t h e c h r o m i u m o x i d e t o p r e p a r e n i t r o g e n d i o x i d e g a s o r a m m onium nitrate. There is a rather vivid reaction
between am m onia and oxygen catalyzed by chromium oxide. It will spark and fum e i n a c l o s e d s y s t e m a n d r e d f u m e s o f
nitrogen dioxide will eventually com bin e with moisture to make nitric which imm ediately form am monium nitrate in the system .
This isn't exactly a useful m eans of producing nitric acid, but fun nonetheless. This reaction requires chromic (III) oxide,
Cr2O3, and I don't suppose that's the stuff you have is it? O f co urse CrO 3 d e c o m p o s e s a t 2 5 0 d e g r e e s C t o f o r m C r2O3, how
handy is that?
GO to http://www.chem .leeds.ac.uk/delights/texts/expt_14.htm l to learn all about it :)

you could always m ake a volcano pyrotechnic, by converting the CrO 3 to C hrom ic acid, by disolving in water. then reacting with
a m m o n i u m h y d r o x i d e . f o r m i n g a m monium dichromate. which, when lit will form the classic volcano pyrotecnic effect

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > A new gun
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I m i n t h e m a r k e t f o r a new f i r e a r m , s o m ething .308+ as I will be s h o o t i n g t a r g e t ( s n a p s a n d m o v e r s ) at b e t w e e n 6 0 0 - 1 0 0 0
yard s (I know .223 wont take m e back that far, but I am also in the m arket for one of these if you know of a great one) if you
own a firearm that you have h ad luck shooting distance with, I would absolutely love to he ar about it.
DeviantSaint October 6th, 2003, 08:08 PM

Fn-Fal for sem i-Auto. It's a bit heavy though, b ut relatively inexpensive, plenty of parts and accessories for it, and it's rugge d
a s h ell. It's also about as accurate as is pragmatically p ossible before yo u start wondering into match grade territory etc etc
etc. Though DSArm s does make some real tack driver Fals. A few other com p a n i e s a n d g u n s m i t h s d o t o o .
as for bolts.. well that depends on how m uch you want to spend. On the cheap end you ca n always grab yourself a .308 israeli
Mauser.
If you are willing to wonder into 8m m territory then you can get a very nice quality yugo m a u s e r f o r n o t m u c h m o r e t h a n
$50.00 USD.
If you have a Curio and relic license th ey can even be m ailed to your house.
mikey October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 3 : 5 2 P M

I was in your situation about 12 m onths ago. So i got m y s e l f o n e o f t h e s e .
http://www.remington.com/firearm s/centerfire/700VS.HTM[/U RL]
M i n e i s i n . 2 3 3 a n d e a s i l y s h o o t s u n d e r 1-inch groups at 100 yards. It is a tad on the heavy side a nd i would recomm e n d a
bipo d a n d a t l e a s t a 2 4 m a g s c o p e w i t h a m il dot reticule. Plus if y o u d o n t w a n t t o g o f o r t h e . 2 3 3 m y m a t e h a s b e e n h a v i n g
great success picking off foxes at long range with the 308 model. Both m odels would benefit from a trigger job as the
factory trigger is a bit heavy, I ve h a d m ine done, but it's up t o you. This is a d a m n f ine rifle, but don t t a k e m y word for it.
www.snipercountry.com/rem-700.htm [/U RL]
Nevermore October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 5 8 P M

well if you go to 1000 y i can suggest you to give a look at 6.5m m cartdrige, 6m m P P C , b u t m ost of everything the newest
6 . 5 m m are one of the best available for that range if you don't want to go up to lapua 338. 308 is a good am m o , b u t i s t o o o o
m uch parabolic, so doing the result won't be optimal, fo r long range target you need a fast bullet insensitive to the wind and
with a fair we ight.
6, 6.5, 7m m w o u l d b e g o o d
a . 3 0 0 m a g w o u l d b e o k t o o , a s h o r t m ag would be m y choice if i should go on 7.65mm
but, if you are shooting for fun, what a bout a .52 .72 muzzleloading rifle? you will be surprised how precise are the new design
bullets, and definitely, a .72 is a m onster i always wanted to try..
You are shooting target, don't even look at semiauto, go for bolt.
s e m i a u t o c a n b e g o o d f o r r a n g e s u p t o 2 0 0 m t , m ore is a waste, since the recoil will bring you out of sight anyway, so where is
the convenience of having a fast reloading rifle if you can't shoot fast enuf?

If you are willing to spend a lot of m oney for a good rifle then I can give you a link to an Australian company that m a k e s b o l t
action precision rifles in calibres from 7.62 NATO (.308 W in.) to .50BMG.
IIR C The 7.62 version will reportedly shoot .2 MOA grou ps, the .338 Lapua version can shoot .35 MOA, and the .50 BMG
version can shoot .52 MO A. They also m ake rifles in .308 Norm a M a g , 7 . 6 2 x 5 4 R u s s i a n , a n d . 3 0 0 W i n M a g .
Getting it im ported from Australia would be a bitch though (getting it into the US should be fairly easy, it is getting it out of
Australia that would b e difficult with lots of paperwork and safety checks and other stupid red tape).
aikon October 22nd, 2003, 11:33 AM

if yo u h a v e e n o u g h t i m e for practicing a .308 is ok.
i personally prefer the "old" steyr ssg sport PI in .308.
if yo u are willing to spend m ore m oney i'd buy a G22 .300W inMag or a G24 .50BMG from Accuracy International.
check their websites:
www.steyr-m annlicher.com/
http://www.accuracyinternation al.com /
grandyOse October 22nd, 2003, 12:02 PM

How bad is the kick on the 50BMG? .300WM? I'm a s m all guy and 100 ro unds with an M-14 m a k e s m e sore.
DBSP October 22nd, 2003, 12:20 PM

Don't you know what Elmer Kieth used to say?
Recoil, relaxe and enjoy it!
Personally I love reco il, the hardest kickin things I have right now is the 52g 12 shells. Not the worst thing but it can m e s s y o u
up if you don't hold the weapon correctly. W hich shootin g newbies usually doesn't:p
Therefore I allways tell them the 52 gram m ers are practice amm unition and give them t h e l o a d e d g u n . I s o m e t i m e s l a u g h s o
m uch from their reaction when they pull the trigger that I get a stom acache of it.
It's cruel thing to do but the g ood thing is that it can't g et any worse afte r they have tried it.
xyz October 23rd , 2003, 04:57 AM

Giving newbie shooters oversize guns is cruel:) , I heard a story once about som eone who was too afraid to fire a gun for the
rest of their life after (they were a very sm a l l p e r s o n ) s o m e o n e g a v e t h e m a .300 W in Mag and told them it wouldn't kick.
H a v e y o u s e e t h e v i d e o o n K a ZaA of the arabic guy firin g a .577 tyrannosaur? It is funny as hell, h e i s k n o c k e d b a c k i n t o a
wind ow by the recoil and the b utt of the rifle breaks the window.
Seriously tho ugh, I also like recoil. I am u s e d t o s o r e s h o u l d e r s a s I g o t o t h e g y m 3 tim es a week (high intensity weight
training can m a k e y o u r s h o u l d e r s a s s o r e a s h e l l t h e n e x t d a y ) . I a m also not affected by recoil as m uch as other p e o p l e a r e
due to the fact that I am 6'2" and all the gym work.
Grandy0se, most rifle s in .50BMG are fitted with m uzzle brakes that reduce the re coil to th at of a 1 2 g a u g e s h o t g u n ,
unfortunately the brakes greatly increase noise and muzzle blast. The weight of most .50 BMGs also helps to cut the recoil
down tho this level
3 . 5 " 1 2 g a u g e m a g n u m shells kick worse than a .50BMG due to the light weight of the shotgun com pared to the .50, a .50BMG
rifle produces about 45 ft. lbs of recoil, a 3.5" 12 gauge m agnum load produces around 65 ft. lbs of recoil.
mikey October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 0 5 P M

Hang man, it would be easier to help you if you could provide us with some m ore info like,
-How much m oney yo u want to spend on it.
-are you gun n a r e l a o d e d y o u o w n a m mo (because factory 50.bm g cost a fortune for good am m o )
-are you guu na custom ise it a fter you have bought it or do you want it to shoot straight from the b o x .
etc
another website you m ight want to look at:
http://www.armalon.com
these rifles have been winning com petions for years, also see sniper country for advice an d reveiws. They specialise in very
long r a n g e s h o o t i n g .
http://www.snipercountry.com
Hang-Man October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 9 : 2 9 P M

You guys are great. Really. Fantastic info. To answer your questions:
How much will I spend: as much as I h ave to :D I'm not against buying a cheep gun, but usually you get what you pay for
D o I l o a d m y own a m m o : y e s . I l o a d all my own am m o , ( e v e n . 2 2 3 i f I m shooting >300yrds ) I increase the quality, and
decrease the cost at the sam e tim e. (and I get to use my fancy scale)
W ill I shoot it out of the box: Generally no. odds are I would replace the barrel, shave down the trigger, etc. I've never boug ht
a g u n t h a t c a m e i n a b o x , s o I s u p p o s e i f I s p e n t e n o u g h I m ay not have to tinker. I have a habit of buying old m ilitary
surp lus (Mau ser/ Garand/ Enfield etc) from gun shows, fixing them up, shooting them for a while, and selling them again.
B u t d o n t just lim it th is thread to m e ; i f y o u h a v e a g u n y o u l o v e , p o s t i t ( y o u k n o w t h e o n e , t h e o n e y o u bring with you t o a

s h o o t e v e n t h o u g h you know you won t n e e d i t )
A-BOMB October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 0 : 2 6 P M

I love m y SSG82 in .215rws(5.45x39mm ) but the odds are that you will never find one in your life tim e I s a w o n e a t a g u n
show going with the whole kit tipod, oringanal match am mo, clips, scopes, case, range finder, and the germ a n m a n u a l s f o r
$9000 USD and that was in 1996, But if you want a good cheap gun get a yugo sks, nice range for a nice price.
TreverSlyFox Novem ber 4th, 2003, 07:48 AM

Ahhhhh .. Long Range Tactical
You'ed really have a hard tim e b e a t i n g a S a v a g e 1 0 F P i n . 3 0 8 o r a 1 1 0 F P i n . 3 0 0 W i n M a g u n l e s s y o u f o u n d a S a v a g e 1 0 F P i n

. 2 6 0 R e m ing ton (they pulled them off the market for la ck of intrest).
It's hard to beat a Sa vage any way you look at it. They give the Remington 700 PSS and W inchester M-70 Stealth a run for the
m o n e y e v e r y d a y a n d a b o u t $ 200 - $3 00 cheaper. Savage fixed the trigger issue so the o nly thing left is a new stock and
you'ed slap an A3, A4, A5 on it even if it was a Remm y or Winny anyway.
Now if your talking cost is no object then I'ed look at the FN-SPR , that chrome lined .308 barrel is getting 40,000 rounds threw
them and still delivering 1/2 MOA and you can buy one decked out just about any way you want it from stock to glass. They
start at $150 0 a n d g o u p t o $ 5 0 0 0 + d e p e n d i n g o n w h a t y o u c h o o s e .
Or you could go with a George Gardner "Rock" for about $2500 + glass, rings, bases and bi-pod. O r g o a l l o u t a n d h a v e a 6 . 5
X 284 built but your looking at a barrel that only goes 1 4 0 0 - 1 6 0 0 r o u n d s i f y o u l o a d t h e m hot (over 3000 fps).
There's many ways to go, it ju s t d e p e n d s o n t h e d e p t h o f y o u r p ocket. Though .308 will go to 1000 yds it best to keep it under
800 yds. If your looking for a hard 1000 yarder then your looking at the .260 Remington, 6.5 X 28 4 or the .300 Win Mag if you
goin g to be competative.
12Gauge Novem ber 9th, 2003, 12:20 AM

g e t y o u r s e l f a R e m ington 700 or Browning A-Bolt (with B.O .S.S.) in either 300 Win Mag or 7MM Magnum , slap a good quality
recoil pad on it and go to work. The US Military now uses the 300 Mag in a Rem 7 0 0 a c t i o n a s a l o n g r a n g e s n i p e r s y s t e m ( 5 0
C a l f o r l o n g , l o n g r a n g e ) . Y o u a r e t h e n u s i n g a c o m b a t a n d t i m e proven, reliable, relatively inexpensive an d uncom plicated
weapon.
If you m ust go gee whiz, high tech, wh iz bang rifle- get an AR-10T in either 308 or the new 300 U ltra Short Magnum - while n ot
proven yet- these should be good weapons.
Jacks Complete Novem ber 9th, 2003, 06:05 PM

Hi there.
The wait is over! 1st post...
I think it is really hard to say which rifle you would be best getting. If you have done tim e with various firearm s (which it would
s e e m you have), you will already have some preferences, and so you will be looking for som e o n e t o g i v e y o u a n i d e a a s
regards a very specific thing.
You will probably want a bolt-action rifle for accurate long-range target work, but if you want the higher RoF (and you can
( l e g a l l y ) g e t o n e ) a s e m i-auto is very nice. Note that basic sem i-auto firearm s are not as accurate as bolt guns, and they tend
to be more highly restricted. If you don't care about the RoF much, then go for a bolt gun without a magazine (true single
shot) as the stiffness of the action im proves accuracy by a noticable am ount at 1000+ yards.
Calibre wise, 6mm has been getting really good reviews from the extrem e accuracy benchrest types in the UK, but the majority
of target rifles are still .308/7.62mm rifles. In the silly section, you can g o t o . 3 3 8 L a p u a M a g n u m , which has the same sort of
accu racy as 7.62, but greater power an d greater range (about 1400 yards, where m ost 7.6 2 gets to 1200 while still supersonic.
You could ge t a .50 BMG, but that gets very expensive! You can also download the .338 (or almost any cartridge you load
yourself), so it is fun to shoot. This tends not to work with semi's as they won't cycle, and with .50 and full-house .338, you
m ight have problems finding anywhere to shoot it safely.
A good piece of glass will be as important as the rifle.
In other news, .300 whisper m ight be a nice one if you can get a little clo ser to your target...
I just got m yself a .44 Marlin u/l! Finally got it all set up, and go t 100 rounds for it. Absolutely brilliant! Expensive, but worth it.
Feeding it is expensive, too, but I will be geting the dies after next paycheck. Holds 10, possibly it is capped at that due to US
m agazine restrictions (which d on't affect the U K) so I might be able to up it a little. If anyone knows for sure, let m e know!
Shot it for the first tim e on Thursday. Absolute joy! Had a go with a rathe r nice long barrelled revolver in .22 as well.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > how I got REAL detos cases
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pdb October 8th, 2003, 01:24 PM

I post m y story inorder to give som e o f us ideas on how to get so-said "impossible to get" stuff.
I n t h e d e t o m a k i n g p rocess, which of course is the key to the wonderful world of HE, one obstacle lies in getting appropriate
canisters. You can try lots of things resembling a real deto case with various success; nothing to m e is fully satisfactory but a
REAL deto ca s e .
S o m e years ago, I sent an order to a Davey-Bickford deto factory using m y company lette rhead, which said that being involved
in the conception of a freight handling warehouse, I was looking for empty deto cases in order to figurate in a m ock -up I was
building the rollers you routinely find o n system s that m ove airline pallets... Do you follow m e ?
And it W ORKED ! Som e days after, I received 500 Al cases (45m m l o n g , 7 m m I D ) a n d 5 0 0 C u c a s e s ( 5 0 m m l o n g , 7 m m ID). I
had ordered the two kinds inorder to be able to use Hg(ONC)2 in the Cu cases, and Pb(N3)2 in the Al ones.
Since that time, I have m a d e o v e r 1 5 0 d e t o s , u s i n g m o stly the Al cases...
This shows that HE passion requires lot of im agination to reach your goals. But I'm sure it is the case of all the serious peop le
on this forum .
Cricket October 8th, 2003, 05:37 PM

H a h a , g o o d j o b ! I l o v e w h e n p e o p l e g e t c l e a v e r a n d d o s o m ething new. In the ne ar future , I plan to buy something called a
"blast simulator". I don't know exactly what it is or what it looks like, but it is used by the U S m ilitary to sim ulate a blast I
guess. The guy said "I don't know wha ts in it, but I hooked it up to m y car battery and it will make shit fly into the air". My
goodness, what a technical scale for ra ting stuff. If it m a k e s s o m ething FLY into the AIR, it has to be badass! I just want the
d e t o n a t e r a n d what ever is around it. I have no idea what it is, but maybe flash o r more p robably a military HE of som e sort.
It's on the black market I know, but m a y b e s o m eone in desperate need of a high quality detonator could go to their local
b l a c k m a r k e t a n d d o s o m e browsing. Later.

A va riation of the "Sam ple Scam". :) But this was pre 9/11 too, so it probably wouldn't work now. :(
Cricket, those "grenades" are likely inert trainers. IF they're live grenades, I'd suggest removing any mention of your intent to
buy them 'ca use we all know the feds are reading this p lace, and may decide to pay you a visit after you so carelessly
announce your aquisition of them. :rolleyes:

A blast sim ulator is just like a big M-80 with a bright flash, they drop it in a 55gal can at night and its supposed to sim ulate a
n u k e . I t s k i n da cool but pretty stupid for a nuke
Cricket October 9th, 2003, 03:56 PM

Haha, a nuke?!? I can't help but scratch m y h e a d a n d l a u g h a t t h a t . T h e m fuckin wierdo's. They m ight as well lay down their
M 1 6 ' s a n d g e t s o m e bubble blowers if they are gonna train like that. Anyway, thanks!
Haggis October 9th, 2003, 06:46 PM

I believe they are used to train the soldiers to instinctively drop and cover away from the blast epicenter, rather than
sim ulating an actual nuclear weapon for tactical purposes. This training would be done at night to take advantage of the bright
flash that would be lo st in the daylight.
Cyclonite October 10th , 2003, 06:55 AM

T h a t s wh at I was getting at, im cu rrently in t h e U . S A r m y a n d h a v e d o n e t h e t r a i n i n g . I ts bullshit as with m o s t s t u f f i n t h e
A r m y . I w a n t e d t o n a b a c o u p l e o f t h o s e a n d s o m e CS canisters since we were in the wood s doing a FTX. I succeede d in the
CS. W hat great fun to gas soldiers in the night then everyone gos apeshit over who let the CS off.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > two questions
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Nevermore October 10th , 2003, 03:38 AM

Two fast questions:
im thinking about m aking NG with 58% HNO3 a nd 98% sulfuric, i thought about m aking in an icq b ath, but considering the
freezing point of the glicerine is just 13,5C won't i likely get frozen nitro as result?
How to conce ntrate HNO3, i thought ab out boiling it, but it won't be efficient, trapping the water with sulfuric and distilling cou ld
be done but is tim e c o n s u m ing and i don't have distillation equipm ent, what about freezing it?
DBSP October 10th , 2003, 06:42 AM

How about reading the NG thread and the whole HNO3 section??? info you need it all there, you just need to find it.
It's not to hard to answer your questions but th ere is no point in doing so since the answers are avalible alreay.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > stuck stoppers
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grandyOse October 11th , 2003, 12:48 AM

P l e a s e h e l p m e on th i s o n e . I h a v e a g l a s s r e a gent bottle with ground glass stopper that is 20% full of sod ium hydroxide
solution. The solution crept up and out, leaving crystals all around the stopper, and the stopper is glued in solid. I even had a
thin film of silicone grease on the stop per. I really want to save the bottle, and it would also be nice to keep the hydroxide, as
t h e L E O ' s a n d d r u g f i e n d s h a v e m ade it im possible to b uy it OTC. I have applied a few drops of sulfuric acid around the joint,
which did not help. I have read about people actually have som e success with padded plie rs, but that is m y last resort. All help
is appreciated.
ALENGOSVIG1 October 11th , 2003, 03:45 AM

You could try heating the joint with a torch.
Be careful. :)
IPN October 11th , 2003, 04:57 AM

I had to open lots of stuck stoppers th is week...
W hat you should is to pour hot water to the bottles neck for quite long then tap the neck gently with som e sort of wooden club
and try to twist the stopper op en.
If th at doesn't help, im m ediately pour cold water to the hot neck, just be careful not to break it. Then repeat the tapping, it
should get open that way.
Good luck!
metafractal October 11th , 2003, 05:45 AM

You might also try he ating the bottle itself over a bunsen burner flam e for a while in an open space. This will cause the
m aterial inside the bottle to expand and hopefully the pressure will cause the stopper to fly off.
knowledgehungry October 11th , 2003, 10:11 AM

You can't buy sodium hydroxide:confused:. W here do you live, its the most com mon drain opener over here, its called lye.
T_Pyro October 11th , 2003, 11:17 AM

S o d i u m h y d r o x i d e i s e a s i l y a v a i l a b l e a s a l a b o r a t o r y r e a g e n t . . . J u s t a s k s o m e chem teach ers, they'll tell yo u from where to get
s o m e in your city. Otherwise, you can easily prepare som e at hom e by the electrolysis of conc. salt solution , with high current
density at the anode.

The pressure blowing out the stopper is a BAD idea. The bottle will sim p l y e x p l o d e .
I've succesfu lly loosened a jam m e d v a l v e o f a s e p a r a t o ry funnel. Heat it gently whilst m oving it ABOVE the flame. Take it out
every few m inutes and tap the joint. Continue for half an hour. Rem ove the object from the flam e a n d i m m ediatly continue by
g e n l t y h a m m ering the joint/valve with a wooden stick/whatever. W ith som e p e r s e v e r a n c e t h e s t o p p e r s h o u l d g i v e u p i n t h e
end.
You also could try pouring some HCl between the joint.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Drop Pops
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devilassassin October 13th , 2003, 01:46 AM

I was wondering if anyone knows how to m a k e d r o p p o p s . T h e y a r e s o m e granules wrapped in tissue paper and when you
throw them d o w n o n t h e g r o u n d t h e m a k e a h i g h p i t c h e d n o i s e . T h e r e c a lled noisem akers at the e nd of Big Daddy (the m ovie
with Adam Sandler). I know th ey are pretty lam o but if anyone could tell m e how to m a k e t h e m it would be appreciated.
Nevermore October 13th , 2003, 03:44 AM

m a y b e a r m s t r o n g m ix?
EP October 13th , 2003, 04:10 AM

http://www.unitednuclear.com /torpedo.htm
http://www.skylighter.com /skylighter_info_pages/article.asp?Item =43

It's one singular grain of gravel coated with silver fulminate wrapped up in a little pouch of tissue paper.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > How did you come up with your
forum name?
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Exactly as the sunject line states. How did you come up with your forum name? Mine is from the blind skate boards mascot.
They spell it blindreaper, but if you ever searched for blindreaper you'd gte skating stuff so I spelt it blindreeper.

My name is fairly self explanatory. I want knowledge. I want to know everything!
grendel23 October 14th, 2003, 08:57 AM

I started using grendel on a BBS back in about 92 or 93 and have stuck with it since.
Grendel is, as I am sure most of you are aware, the monster in the epic poem Beowulf. I am of Norwegian ancestry, so that
appealed to me.
Mumble October 14th, 2003, 09:34 AM

I have a regular tendancy to slur my words together and speak very quickly. Its not usually much of a problem, but I have a
feeling some people here just don't have appropriate listening capabilities. People need to learn how to listen faster. One of
my friends actually made up this name, a few years ago, and it's just stuck. Mumbles is my more complete moniker acutally
but I had to change it slightly to register.
aikon October 14th, 2003, 11:11 AM

i was sitting in front of the screen and looked at my nokia mobile phone. i read the name from the end to the beginning and
that's it.
Pyroboy October 14th, 2003, 11:32 AM

I've been on this forum since I was about 15 (I think). I'm now 19... damn it couldn't have been that long could it? Anyway,
back in those days a lot of what I was doing was pyro related and my friends already called me pyro so I thought I'd go for
Pyroboy as I already knew of a Pyroman. I think it has kind of a nice ring to it. It may seem a little strange though if I'm still
here when I'm 30 lol
Arkangel October 14th, 2003, 11:47 AM

Can't remember what made me think of it, but when I registered, the allied convoys through the Arctic to Arkhangel (http://
www.arkhangelsk.org/fall_2001.htm) in WW2 were on my mind. I think I tried to register as that, but it screwed up, so I
changed it to what it is. It has nothing to do with god or the Arkangel Gabriel etc
Sir Dudalot October 14th, 2003, 02:11 PM

My older brother used to call me Sir Dudalot (note: it's supposed to sound like dude, not dud...mom would always make fun
of me). The title was, "Sir Dudalot, Swinginest Cat in the Realm." I couldn't come up with anything else so I just used that.
Kid Orgo October 14th, 2003, 02:31 PM

I'm a chem major, probably specializing in some sort of organic chem. If any of you have ever read Mona Lisa Overdrive by
William Gibson, there's a character called Kid Afrika in it. I figured I could easily be Kid Orgo.
nitric63 October 14th, 2003, 05:38 PM

Nitric as in nitric acid, and 63 because 63g is the weight of one mole of nitric acid.

I wanted something uniquely representative of my country. The tuatara is a reptile found only in New Zealand, and is the
nearest living relative to the dinosaurs - being pretty much unchanged for the last 20 million years or so.
And I like reptiles, and frogs and the like.
Have you noticed that most of the kewls that turn up here pick really kewlish names? Its so bad you can predict a banning just
from the name!
DBSP October 14th, 2003, 07:14 PM

In the begining of my pyro career DBSP was my favourite explosive, therefore DBSP was the name I picked when I registered.
IDTB October 14th, 2003, 07:56 PM

I've had a handle for my programming and hacking, but even though that part of me isn't appearing as much it's sticking.
It's awkward when your friends of longtime forget your real name because they're so used to referring to you by your
nickname..
I must say, I'm surprised on how origional most of these are. I believe names alone may speak alittle about us. ;)
Skean Dhu October 14th, 2003, 09:54 PM

While reading a book by Terry Brooks( The Druid of Shanara if memory serves correctly) , one of the characters used a
weapon called a skean dhu, the name caught my interest and I later found that it's a scottish knife . The name literally means
black knife, this may refer to the coloring of the handle or it may refer to its hidden nature and original useage as a last ditch
defense weapon.
having a great interest in the 'days of olde' and being slightly hidden/shady myself I thought it only fitting
0EZ0 October 14th, 2003, 10:11 PM

I don't really have one answer for what my nick really means. I probably should have chosen a different nick, as it is easy to
misinterpret it's meaning/origin, but I don't want to re-register under a new name.
It's funny to see people try to type my nick up. It usually ends up as OEZO which is not entirely correct. While I was in the
process of registering, a shortcut on my start bar quoted the name EZ. I have had people mis-quote my nick as Ouzo.
Coincidently while studying Latin and Greek culture I came across the word Oezo(pronounced oozo), It's a licorice flavoured
Greek booze. If you can work it out, 0230 also just happens to be a number of importance to me.
So there you go. How many of you thought my nick was just some sort of kewlish babble? Or more importantly, who still does
think that;)?
EP October 14th, 2003, 11:25 PM

EP is the acronym for my site, somewhat kewlishly named "Extreme Pyro". I now have this on my site:
Extreme* Pyro
* To be perfectly honest, it's not all that "extreme", it's just the best name I could come up with at the time...

Pyrotechnics is a hobby to me. Hence the latter part of the name. However, as it's a very unimaginative one, lots of others
have already tried it before. Hence, the prefix "t-" Actually, the "T" should have been small, coz' I got the idea from "t-alkyl-
...", as in "tert- ", but the capital looks better... I think ;)
chokingvictim78 October 15th, 2003, 01:04 AM

I use one of three monikers on all of my 'net accounts. Punkrockerguy789 (AIM, several years old, it stuck, since I'm too lazy
to transer the tons and tons of screen names from one buddy list to a new one), Leftovercrack789, and Chokingvictim789. 789
is just easy to type. I don't recall why there isn't a 9 in this one.
A-BOMB October 15th, 2003, 01:11 AM

I got A-BOMB because it is small but big and its just fun, Plus if up see A-BOMB written on the walls of a mens restroom, park
bench, large random rock in a state forest, a railroad car, or on a a note stuffed behind a fuel port of a XB-70 or X-15 (this
should be easy therese only one XB-70 left), in the cheyenne mountain factcility, or on about 87 bomb casing(no HE just
casings) that were on a this railroad car, or on the chamber of a atomic cannon I was there.
Ahriman October 15th, 2003, 04:53 AM

I got mine from a book from one of my favourite authors, Dean Koontz. Its in his book False Memories, where there is a
shrink called Mark Ahriman. Well, my first name being Mark, and my parents being ministers in a church, I chose the nick
Ahriman, and I use it for everything, pretty much. My parents found out what Ahriman means, and they're pretty pissed, but
they cant do sh*t.
Most of my friends call me Ahriman, anyway, and in a few more years, I probably will have forgotten my real name :P
Edit: spelling
metafractal October 15th, 2003, 08:03 AM

I have a spiritual connection with the concept of a fractal... a shape that has infinite detail, the detail being itself. If you look,
you'll notice that fractals are the fabric of the universe.
The prefix meta- has always fascinated me. It is usually described as meaning above; beyond. However this does not
encapsulate what it actually means. It implies that it is on an entirely different and deeper level than the subject, that it stares
back at the subject in full understanding, controllign the subject. For example, a metasyntax is syntax for specifying syntax,
metalanguage is a language used to discuss language, meta-data is data about data, and meta-reasoning is reasoning about
reasoning.
Metafractal flows well off the tongue. It implies that whatever the grandure of a fractal, I am greater, more mystical, more
powerful - the very essence of the universe.
Abstract, I know.

That was deep :p
scarletmanuka October 15th, 2003, 08:15 AM

If any of you read footrot flats, the protagonist dog calls himself by a long list of names:
>>The grey ghost
>>the scarlet pimpernel
>>the crimson manuka
my name is a mix-up of the last two.
PS. To this day no-one knows the real name of the dog...
frogfot October 15th, 2003, 04:55 PM

It all beginned when I applyed for an account at hotmail.. since frogfoot was taken (Su-25) I sacrificed one o
I would rather choose frog, but it's always taken everywhere.. but then again, I got attached to this nick.. probably gonna have
it till I loose the internet connection.
Arkangel October 15th, 2003, 05:23 PM

Nice one Metafractal, I'm a something of a fractal enthusiast myself.
Frogfot, I ALWAYS wondered if it was anything to do with the SU25!
thrall October 15th, 2003, 07:25 PM

I got my name thrall because I like to enslave.(I mean the verb because this noun means "one who is enslaved").
Originally posted by Ahriman
I got mine from a book from one of my favourite authors, Dean Koontz. Its in his book False Memories, where there is a
shrink called Mark Ahriman. Well, my first name being Mark, and my parents being ministers in a church, I chose the nick
Ahriman.
By the way Ahriman is like Satan in Parsi(ancient persia's) religion.Though he is far more powerful than Satan.
Ahriman October 15th, 2003, 07:52 PM

Yeah, that's why my parents are pissed at my nick, they are always trying to get me to change it. (I did a website for their
church, and signed it at the bottom as "Made by Ahriman'. They weren't impressed ;) )
Jumala October 15th, 2003, 08:04 PM

I took my username out of a tourist information sheet from mikkeli, a city of finland.
I looked for a simple, easy to memorize word. The most words of the finnish langage are long and complicated and the most
people in the world cannot understand them, also me.
So I took Jumala. Since IPN told me the meaning I know Ive done the right choise.:D :D
grammarless October 16th, 2003, 12:07 AM

When I was deciding on a password I looked over at a shelf and saw a grammar book called
"A Grammar book For You And I", and I was like that looks right, but then I noticed that in red I was crossed out and "oops,
me!" was written in. I felt like an idiot so that is how I came up with grammarless. Wow, that is really nerdy. Sorry to bore you
all.

scarletmanuka, footrot flats are the bomb! The dog accually does call himself "The Scarletmanuka" at one stage. And I think
in the footrot flats video the dogs name is mentioned...
nzrockets October 16th, 2003, 06:01 AM

mine is: NZ for New Zealand and rockets because i am really into rocketry, its also the name of my web site
Leadazide October 16th, 2003, 09:30 AM

During a demolition course in the army i learned that leadazide was the component in the detonators we used. First I used the
danish name "blyazid" but quickly changed to leadazide since blyazid lacked a bit of Zang in the internationel side.
Chade October 17th, 2003, 12:38 AM

There's a series of books by an author called Robin Hobb, the Farseer trilogy and the Tawny Man trilogy feature a character
called Chade Fallstar. He's the bastard son of one of the royal family, and, as those sort of guys have to be either kept busy
or killed, he's made into the royal assassin. When the books start he's almost a legend, and no-one knows he exists. His spy
network operates across the land, is extremely experienced in assasination techniques, and he dabbles in making pyrotechnic
compositions in his spare time. In the first book, he's training the protagonist (another royal bastard) to be an assassin too.
Basically he's massively cool and fascinatingly Machiavellian. Plus the name seemed appropriate for this forum.
nesler October 17th, 2003, 01:55 AM

When I was applying for a hotmail account a long time ago, Ellie Nesler popped into my head--I thought what she did was
pretty damn ballsy--so I took her last name.
bobo October 17th, 2003, 06:10 AM

I take a name with 'bob' in it all the time. This originates from when I was 15 or so and started to take telephone calls
answering in a slurry voice 'bob speaking' or crap like that. This habit has not stuck, but I still use the name Bob to identify
myself when I don't want my real name known. Lying about your identity becomes easier if you learn to think of yourself
sometimes as another person. Over the years, Bob became something of an alter ego of mine, like a dark twin, the one that
does the things I'd like to do but don't. Controlled schizofrenia induced by a strong mind:)
NoltaiR October 17th, 2003, 11:43 AM

I picked my name because it is a derivitive of my last name and when I was 14 (now 18) and just getting into website
developement, I thought this would be a cool name, although that that I am older I think its kinda dorky :(
I have made quite a few sites in my day... most of which have burned in flames and no longer exist but a few incomplete
projects still exist in the depths of free internet space as far as I know including my very unfinished Energetic Materials
Catalogue 2002 which I had such high hopes for!!!! Oh wait I just checked the site and it looks like not only did they
deactivate it because I hadn't updated it in so long but its not even there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I don't think I
have backups of the site either!!!!!!! Well this is certainly going to be a disappointing day.. so much work went into what I did
have.
Well now having that said and found out I guess I will sum up this rather eye-opening reply with saying that aikon, I would
have never guessed that was nokia backwards :P
Unknown October 17th, 2003, 06:42 PM

I couldn't think of a name no matter how long I sat in front of the screen! So I thought about when I was in the Army at the
end of boot camp one of my Drill Seargeants approached me and asked me who I was after being in his company for 13
weeks. And pretty much everywhere I go I remain anonymous /Unknown and kind of "blend in" like the furniture. I sound like
some introverted psyco, but i'm not, I just like to kick back and contemplate.
THErAPIST October 20th, 2003, 02:27 AM

M dad pointed out to me one day (about 6 years ago) that it was kind of odd that if you put the words The and Rapist
together, you get therapist which is someone a person who got raped would go see. I found this slightly homorous so I
decided to use the name THErAPIST when playing counter-strike when it had just came out in the first beta stages. I was pretty
good at the game then and someone had once told me in-game that my name suited me well since I kept "raping" the
people on the other team. The main reason I use this name is because I think its funny but it stuck a little better because of
a game.... sad isnt it? I really suck at CS now though since I berely ever play

I was trying to think of a good name, and it occurred to me that everyone always tries to choose a grandiose name, so WTF?
Besides, I'm old enough to be a grandy.
NERV October 20th, 2003, 10:15 PM

lol, havent been here for awile but my name came from an anime known as Neon Genesis Evangelion. You may think its kinda
silly, but the show changed my veiw on alot of things in life ect, and yeah so I figured the name suited me since NERV was the
key military agency of the show.
Stone October 21st, 2003, 07:56 AM

Mine is very boring... It is the name of a band member from my favourite band. Not too fond of them anymore, but everyone
i've met over the past 7 years, know me as Stone.
xyz October 21st, 2003, 08:15 AM

I am not really sure why I chose xyz. I think it is because people use it as an unknown and also sometimes use it in place of
etcetera. People will use xyz where something is not known, like people will say "Mr. xyz" in the same situation they use "Mr.
X" or "John Doe".

I've always found short names amusing. Jim, Bill, Ted, Bob, Jack etc etc. I just picked a such a name (Jim) and put 'Sonny' in
front of it, the same way I did when thinking up Angry Jack. I think it rolls off the tongue nicely.
Bryan October 24th, 2003, 11:48 PM

My name, what more can I say?
Sonny Jim, I thought your expression had to do with one of the traditional old fogey sayings, calling young boys "Sonny Jim"/
OR am I getting confused again?

It is a name I have ben goign tby since 95' my littel Ode to Kevin Poulsen. I guy whos exploits showed me that thier is some
interesting things to that little wire that connects to the back of my computer.
TJTay89 October 29th, 2003, 10:41 AM

I have had this handle for about three years. It is pretty simple... T.J. is my what i use for my first name, Tay is the first three
letters of my last name, and 89 is the year of my birth. Thus I came up with TJTay89.
Arthis October 29th, 2003, 01:33 PM
From a cartoon hero a few years ago...
Cricket October 31st, 2003, 01:31 PM

I thought for a name for hours. Then I looked down and saw I was playing with my Cricket lighter (regular lighter, but electrical
ignition). I had just bought it along with much other stuff like a pound of Pyrodex, 25 CO2 ctgs., 100 12 gauge shells, and
some other stuff. No, I didn't buy this all at once. I was only 14 or 15 at the time but they let me buy it still. Thank God for
po-dunk hick towns like this one :D. Anyway, thats where Cricket came from. Interesting topic.
Trinitrotoluene November 2nd, 2003, 09:30 PM

I first came up with this name when I started with my interest with explosives, and TNT was my favorite explosive, so I came
up with this name. It still dosen't suit the name I use when I play starcraft, but oh well, I rarely play that game now.
klassasin November 2nd, 2003, 10:39 PM

Mine name comes from my initials, kl, and assassin except I mispelled it so I've just kept it that way. Also NERV I like the
name. Evangelion rocks!!! Go NGE.
Boomer November 10th, 2003, 01:50 PM

Actually it is a dog s n ame! It is my nickname in the company becau se I have free workin g time s and (within limits) I can
come + g o when I want. So the called me Boomer the stray dog after a TV sequel.
Durin g registration I realised it also s o u n d s like some one making th ings go BOO M
P.S. Funny to be a newbie again after 20 ye ars of bla sting around

Since this forum is a little Different to where I normally work and play, I decided to use this name. Since I am always online,
my other screen name is far too easy to connect to me, and so I didn't want to use it here.
So, I chose this name. My sig should clue most people in to where it came from, but just in case you never saw Fight Club, you
now know.
Bert November 11th, 2003, 02:52 AM

Before Fight Club, it was a series of articles in Readers's Digest...
"I am Jack's Small Intestine", etc. God, I feel old.
It's Bert because of Sessame Street. But really, I'm mor of an Ernie.
Jacks Complete November 11th, 2003, 10:57 AM

Isn't that where he gets the titles from? A big pile of magazines in the "soap factory".
I doubt RD ever did anything with quite that title, though!
Someone else said it before, but the inspirations for some of the names are superb! :)
Blackhawk November 12th, 2003, 05:42 AM

Mine isn't too complicated or profound, I saw it written on the side of a model airplane in a magazine and I liked it. It has
become more of a suitable name lately as when I play BF1942/Desert Combat I like being the UH-60 BH pilot. So now I use
the name almost everywhere, plus I think it sounds cool :P
Oh and Blindreeper, when I was trying to find your geocities site at school I was wondering why I could only ever get
skateboard sites...
And of course some will remeber my sig from an old computer stratergy game, Kane said it...
Jacks Complete November 12th, 2003, 06:45 AM

I knew I recognised it!
Command and Conquer, wasn't it? The only game where you got to pick a target and laser it from space as the winning prize!
HORNYwithPANDAS November 13th, 2003, 03:47 PM

I came up with my name at a very disturbing time during my life...:D No, I actually came up with it for a clan name in CS.
When I applied for this forum I thought it might instantly describe some of my personality.

yep command and conquer, hah, the ion-beam was cool, didn't you have the choice of hammering France, I'm pretty sure I
took that one. Since then I think the best game they have churned out would be the origional C&C red-alert, very well
balanced and involving game, but this is getting OT.
blindreeper November 14th, 2003, 08:47 AM
Black hawk read the first post of this topic to find why you onyl get skate boarding sites :)
knowledgehungry November 15th, 2003, 08:43 PM

Hornywithpandas, no one is going to take you seriously, and that sig is lame as hell. We arent trying to look like 12 yearolds
here:rolleyes:.
Blackhawk November 15th, 2003, 09:23 PM

Well we may not be trying as such but if that is who he is...
"When I applied for this forum I thought it might instantly describe some of my personality."

You've got it all wrong, you have to become a moderator or a very important member BEFORE you openly display your silly
side, take Anthony for example :) .

I would edit the post but it's been too long, another prime example is ~BoB~ and his THC fueled rants :D .
Bong November 17th, 2003, 10:31 PM

Look at my name, I don't somke weed but I grow it and the word "Bong" is related to weed and it jumped up my mind. So I
just pick it.
Charlie Workman November 18th, 2003, 03:13 AM

Charlie Workman was the name of one of my favorite, but little known, gangsters of the 1930's. When the Syndicate decided
that fellow crimelord Dutch Schultz had become too much of a liabilty, Murder, Inc. sent Charlie to take care of the problem.
He walked into Schultz's headquarters and killed him and four other gang members. By himself. A close friend later ratted him
out and he did 23 years for the murders. Once paroled, he lived as a button salesman in NY's garment district. To his dying
day, he never talked about his previous life. The man knew the wisdom of keeping your mouth shut.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To paraphrase Aristotle, life is a gas!"
-Gidget
theone November 22nd, 2003, 07:28 AM

sounds like crap i know, but I used to use this ID when I was playing
counter strike ( yeah yeah yeah.....) anyway..... it was this or
"LoveAndSex" another Nick I used to use ( yeah yeah yeah............)
apathyboy November 22nd, 2003, 09:35 PM

Mine's pretty simple, I always say "I should..." or "Wouldn't it be cool if..." or something along those lines, but then never
work up the effort to do it. Procrastination is hell.
Hopefully I get over this stupid habit and make something interesting to post pictures of on the forum
Also, I have no cause whatsoever (unless wanting to systematically hunt down and pummel religious fundamentalists is a
cause) unlike most of the hippies and fruits in my classes, so it makes me stand out a bit.
I should really go buy some supplies... ;)
xyz November 22nd, 2003, 10:35 PM

There was a member here whose sig said "Procrastination is like masturbation, it may seem like a good idea at the time but
in the end you are only fucking yourself"
pornopete November 23rd, 2003, 03:20 AM

i work in a retail store that sells Adult Videos, Ive managed to sell the most so hence PornoPete...Its really wierd how the
seedy old men always come to me to "buy one of those videos in that cabinet.."
Stormhelm November 24th, 2003, 06:25 AM

It's my dwarven name, really. Used a namegenerator on a Tolkien site (BIG Tolkien fan btw), and it popped up. It sounded
good, so I adapted it for all online use.
tmp March 19th, 2004, 01:58 AM

Tmp, means "The Mad Professor", a title bestowed upon me by my friends
back in high school because of my love of computers, physics, chemistry, and
in particular, everything that goes BOOM ! :D :D :D
tom haggen March 23rd, 2004, 09:29 PM

My name comes from the moive Godfather for those of you who didn't already know. I chose this name because i'm of irish
decent like tom, and he's a wise man so why not?
MightyQuinn March 25th, 2004, 12:47 PM

I chose my name based on a Dylan tune often done by The Grateful Dead. It's trademarked for uniqness.
atlas#11 March 27th, 2004, 10:27 PM

Mine came off an old box of blasting caps (empty damn it!) made by the atlas powder co. It read "100 #11 blasting caps" and
not only did the #11 part throw me (#11 is not exactly a common cap size) but this box is like 2" by 2" and if they could fit a
hundred caps in their and they were #11 then it had to be some powerfull shit in them things. I still have the box and it's still
empty but thats where my name came from. Another thing that is kinda scary is that box came from my grand dad who was a
paranoid schitzo! what he was doing with them I can't say but he left me a lot of cool stuff though :) .
Cyclo_Knight March 28th, 2004, 03:17 PM

I have extremely easy access to all the needed precursors for RDX, so obviously that is my favorite main charge. Seeing as
how that is practically the sole subject of all my "research", my name is simply a play off the alternate name, Cyclonite. There
was obviously already a cyclonite however I also wanted something which would suggest a vengeful force, hence
Cyclo_Knight...I am the lord of the K3wl exterminators!
All of those "Stupid Teeneger Blows Off Limbs" headlines you see are just me doing Darwins work ;)
Me: Pssst...see how far you can kick that can of Armstrongs Mixture!
K3wl: Dawwwk OK here Goez Nuthin......BOOOOOM....plotch....splort...
Me:There goes your lower Body! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!! :D

The score is
Darwin: 76,842 and counting
K3wlz: 0
Mr Cool March 28th, 2004, 03:40 PM

I was trying to think of a name, and my friend said "Why not just call yourself something really stupid like 'Mr Cool?'"
So I did. Not a very interesting story really.
Fear March 30th, 2004, 12:41 AM

"The only thing there is to fear, is fear itself" Franklin D. Roosevelt
mesmashy March 31st, 2004, 09:06 AM

i got it off this cave man cartoon i saw on telly he had a wooden bat and kept hitting people with it.......mesmashy lol
N\A4567 March 31st, 2004, 08:10 PM

I wound up with N\A4567 because when I came here I was new to the internet, and I thought the registration form was asking
for my real name; I wasn't dumb enough to put in my real name, N/A stood for Not Answerable and the 4567 was because just
N\A was already taken. Now I'm not nearly as ignorant about the net and I would have changed the name a wile ago, but the
user control panel doesn't give me that option.
tiac03 April 10th, 2004, 02:22 AM

Mine is boring as compaired to all of your's. In Highschool my cynical views on "Jeebus" and religion on the whole, got me
known as "anti-christ" (even though I didn't find myself that bad...) so since the name's Tim, "Tim Is Anti-Christ" (TIAC)
stuck.
The 03 I added when I got myself a yahoo e-mail address and found out that TIAC was already taken. (who the f*ck is called
Tiac anyways?). So I just added 03 since it was the day of the month I was born on.
Thats all Folks....
xALmoN April 10th, 2004, 04:09 AM

xALmoN. was from salmon, which is the fish i love to eat the most, like in sashimi. I also respect their drive and perserverance
about going upstream to breed. Salmon was my original online nick, then i met this girl and we got together, her name started
with 'X' so i changed my nick to xalmon, simple enough. We've broken up though, but i still love this nick.
blindreeper April 10th, 2004, 04:11 AM

I am the lord of the K3wl exterminators!
Me thinks you are a lame try hard. Have you never heard of nbk :rolleyes:
Marvin April 10th, 2004, 05:22 AM

I bought my name from a name shop. It was on special offer.
Arthis April 10th, 2004, 06:16 AM

Hum if that topic is going to make several people give real information about them that is not good. Why people always like
telling too much about them?
I got my forum from a cartoon, long ago, as I had really no idea for an internet name. Since that, I changed my internet
name but in the forum I couldn't.
I like the names that are not too special, just like a nickname but not too common either.
T_Pyro April 11th, 2004, 02:53 PM

I think I've heard of "Arthis" in some game, too... Warcraft, IIRC.
mongo blongo April 11th, 2004, 11:49 PM

Well It's been a while since this thread opened and I thought it's time I may as well tell you lot how my name came to be, as
I am sure you are all pondering. :)
I was still in college when I joined this forum and was working for a telesales mortgage company and we had to deal with a
load of angry bastard cunts who understandably hated us.
Me and my mate were the most hated employees by the boss because we didn't give a shit about our work and skipped work
to go to the pub with VERY shit excuses and turned up stoned of our tits. We even played Dark angel and shit when we talked
to our clients :D It wasn't long before we were let go. ;)
Sooo we nicked loads of the client profile files and used their own telephones to do some....lots of prank phone calls. :D
Anyways there was this dude who was REALY named Mongo Blongo :D I am NOT shitting you, I sware to god!! He was
Hungarian or some shit and we had a lot of fun with that dude he he he :D
Well that's where the name came from so hang me :)
Edit BAD grammar!!!
blindreeper April 11th, 2004, 11:54 PM

Yes it is Warcraft III. The other month and noticed the same thing with Arthis as well :)
Ropik May 2nd, 2004, 10:19 AM

My nick come from two sources:
1) when you change the two syllables, you have "pikro"
2) some VERY interesting blockhouses in Czech republic(neighbour, I'm from Slovakia) are called with similar word.
These blockhouses are practically indestructable and have one to test my products into is my dream :) .
K9 May 3rd, 2004, 12:18 PM

Well it's pretty simple for mine. I like dogs, hence K9. That's about all there is to it.
Child-of-Bodom May 14th, 2004, 08:21 AM

Since I like Heavy Metal, my name is clear...Children Of Bodom is a melodic black-powermetal band, my favourite.
I like some more 'quiet' music btw (like 3 doors down), but that comes when you get older...(although I'm only 21...)
greets,
COB
Corona May 16th, 2004, 08:53 AM

Everyone knows what a Corona is...
Actually its to honor the first car I remember my parents driving... Toyota Corona (bigger model than Corolla). And I never
spend more than 10 seconds to think up a nickname, so there you are.
I liked that car.... I like most Japanese cars.
K'Luuppo May 23rd, 2004, 04:07 PM

Because helicopter is not a part of car.
Actually it was literally drawed from hat.
JoeJablomy May 23rd, 2004, 05:11 PM

As if you couldn't guess, Haywood is my middle name :)
nuke_2b May 30th, 2004, 11:03 AM

Everyone I know always thinks of me as obsessed with nuclear weapons and maybe one day...
Seriously, i'm just a home chemist/pyro. Not sure where they all got the nuke thing, but it stuck.
festergrump May 31st, 2004, 12:10 PM

I was jamming with a couple of friends on one day about a decade ago (I've been playing the bass for some years) and while
in a somewhat drug and alcohol induced stupor I referred to our flashy drummer as something "Stardust" (it was catchy but I
forget what it was exactly. Likely kin to Ziggy Stardust).
He, in turn, shifted the discussion by calling my guitarist friend "Zip Slide" do to his fancy fret-work. Well, Zip turned to me and
the "wall of hair" in my face and said, "What about Festergrump over here? (I hate my hair to grow as much as 1/4 inch off
the skin, anymore. Now the fester part actually makes some sense...y'know...Adam's Family).
That's it. It stuck...
Patricodog June 4th, 2004, 09:42 PM

I use this name for everything. I made it about 8 years ago and as you can tell it's based on my dog Patric. I didnt know
Patrick was spelled with a 'k' at the time so instead of changing my name, I changed my dog's name. I think it looks cooler
without the 'k' anyways. I got the "odog" because my dog looks irish when he has a green collar on.
CommonScientist August 20th, 2004, 02:28 AM

I was thinking of a name on here that would sound good, a common one, that had to do with science, and it hit me -
CommonScientist! I am more of a chemist though, ide change it if I could, like on the other forums.
I thought about it for like 5 minutes though, My last one I had, that I forgot the password to, was rather lame, so I needed
one that went well with this atmosphere.
Mephistopheles August 20th, 2004, 01:19 PM

I was around on the net, and I was looking at some character profiles from some game, War of Genesis 3 or Magna Carta.....
anyways, some character "liked" the nickname Mephistopheles, and I did too, so, I took it. Later I found out that he's a
demon in hell, and that fit me pretty damn well. So, Mephistopheles it is. also, he's the demon that Faust sold his soul to.
and, Mephistopheles is not Satan, contrary to what most people think.... so, yeah...
Researcher88 August 22nd, 2004, 04:34 AM

well 88, thats when i was born
Myrol August 22nd, 2004, 07:01 AM

Myrol was faszinating me for a long time.....piss easy to make.....damnit strong...but nobody use him really because Myrol is
much to volatile (and poisonus) to make him as worthful Explosive. 615ccm Leadblock.....8000m/s.....very good.......boiling
point 65C....causes worse headaches and is T+....thats awesome :( These differences.....I am Myrol! (A German Explosive
and a German Guy :D )
FUTI August 25th, 2004, 09:47 AM

One friend calls me that way it's because he makes a joke with me and mess-up mine already excisting nick-name. Is this
subject safe from social engeeniring? :confused:
delta_acrylate August 26th, 2004, 08:18 PM

Mine was easy
Delta is my job street name

Acrylate because I work with acrylates
Trigger Mike August 30th, 2004, 04:12 PM

Im called mike and i took "Trigger Mike" from the Bad Boys2 movie.
openfacesurgery August 30th, 2004, 04:47 PM

I'm awful at coming up with names, titles, etc. It's definitely my weak point creativity wise. So all I did was "borrow" a song title
from one of my favorite death metal bands. A fascination with blood and gore could also be attributed to it I suppose.
meselfs August 30th, 2004, 07:46 PM

I fail to remember, I've been meselfs for a very long time.
j_dmillar September 1st, 2004, 03:45 PM

A stupid mistake, honesty to be precise: My initials and last name. I imagine I'll leave soon and reappear with my other
online name.

"Dr. Pind" means "Doctor Stick" (yes. one of those things that are attached to most trees) for those of you who dont speak
danish. It is my most used call-name often being shortened to just "Pind". I got the name from a novel by Jrgen Riel where
one of the main characters in named Dr. Pind. My brother began calling me by this name bacause I'm rather tall.
Mr. Pseudo September 4th, 2004, 10:26 PM

I dunno if anybody here remembers a really old-ass game by Cyan called "Spelunx". Well...one of the charachters in that
game was named "Mr. Pseudo". I thought it was really wierd, so I've been using it online once in a while since about 96'.
Pb1 September 5th, 2004, 12:17 AM
I just took an accurate description of myself, 'prepetually bored', and tried to use that. Too many letters. So, I tried the initials
: PB. Not enough. So, I just added a '1'. I was too lazy to think of anything better (still am).
redbull September 5th, 2004, 04:10 AM

My name... hell I had a can of redbull, the energy softdrink in front of me.
Silentnite January 4th, 2005, 04:42 AM

SilentNite is from a few different things. Basically I go with whatever strikes me, and itll change from year to year. First it was
Silverwolf, then SmokingFox, and then Stone Gargoyle... Odd yes, but they all flow kinda nice in my head. Well, then I was
watching... *XXX* I think, and they had a nerve agent called SilentNite, and I liked it. I still havent transferred all the names
over yet.
kbk January 7th, 2005, 10:27 PM

i put letters together that sounded cool...i had decided for awhile that it stood for "kold blooded killers" (my friends idea...)
but i thought it sounded stupid so kbk means nothing,its just some letters
Zimbabwe! March 6th, 2005, 12:30 AM

I just really like the word. I like another pair of words even better but Saskatoon Saskatchewan was just too long for a
username.
EOD January 5th, 2006, 11:08 PM

17 years as a member of the U.S. Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > solubility problem
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grandyOse October 14th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 3 : 0 3 P M

If I do a search on "solubility" it would turn up m illions of pages to wade through in search of my answer. If I knew the correct
term inology, then I could do an effective search.
I f I h a v e a m ixture of solids, A & B; where A has a very high solubility in say, water, while B has a m uch lower solubility, then I
d u m p the solids in enough wa ter to disolve A com pletely, then what is the composition of m y saturated solution?
W hat if the solids had solubilities within the sam e order of m a g n i t u d e ; s a y 5 g / l a n d 3 g / l ?
I'm posting in the water cooler and don't expect to be spoon fed, but if anyone could give m e the terminology for such a
calculation, then I could look it up m yself.
thanks.
T_Pyro October 14th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 1 : 4 6 P M

Your "A" and "B" can be just a bout anything under the sun- organic, inorganic, ionic, covalent, covalent polar.... et al. W hich
o n e a r e y o u t a l k i n g a bout here? Even if they're both of the sam e type, say, ionic, there are m ore factors th at govern their
solubility rogether in the sam e solvent... Do they have a com m on ion? Does one hydrolyse? Can they react with each other?
You see, your question is just too vague to have a definite answer.
Read up on solubilty of salts in all kinds of solvents: polar, and non-polar. Read up on ionic equilibria. After doing that, do the
m ath, and you'll be a ble to answer your own question. There are lots of people well-versed in the subject here, and they didn't
gain their knowledge without "wade through in search" of the answer.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > acid and base strength of
alcohols
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bobo October 14th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 5 : 5 8 P M

I n S o l o m o n s O r g a n i c C h e m i s t r y ( 6 t h e d i t i o n a d I think 7th too) I encountered a statemen t that wa ter would be a weaker acid
than m e t h a n ol and stronger than ethanol. There is a table in this book which lists PK values: m ethanol at 15.5, water at 15.74
and ethanol at 15.9. The value for water is a bit strange, this looks as if they took the log of the e quilibrium constant not
corrected for water concentration as I am used to ([H2O ]=55M, log(55)=1.74). This is O K as long as they d o it for e ach
c o m p o u n d i n the table. In the book they use this PKa for water all the time.
W hich is really the stronger acid? I had the im pression that methanol was in fact m any tim e s l e s s d e p r o t o n ated than water in a
basic solution of both .
Also related to this to pic, would a methylester be susceptible to nucleoph ilic attack by water in slightly basic environm ent?
megalomania October 15th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 0 8 P M

Eh, try again... its the negative log of the acid dissociation constant, the Ka, which for water is 1.8 x 10-16. That comes out to
a pKa of 15.7. The 1.8 figure is actually derived by dividing wate rs true Ka of 1 x 10-14 by 55.5. This should be assum e d f o r
any pKa chart to norm alize the concentrations with respect to the other substances.
Etha n o l a n d m e t h a n o l both actually ha ve a pKa of 16, so they are less acidic than water.
I don't think your methylester will budge in any environm ent expect extrem ly basic conditions, if indeed you are referring to
acid/base reactivity ala saponification.
bobo October 16th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 2 9 P M

Originally posted by megalom ania
I don't think your methylester will budge in any environm ent expect extrem ly basic conditions, if indeed you are referring to
acid/base reactivity ala saponification. [/B]
T h e n u c l e o p h i l e w o u l d b e O H - a n d t h e l e a v i n g g r o u p C H3O-. The reaction I want is with a prim ary am ine. The ester I try to
displace is a n-hydroxy succinimidyl group. This is a bulky, good leaving group. Hydrolysis with -O H takes place readily.
Am ines react readily with certain esters, as they are good nucleo philes, b ut not so well with acids. But, since am i n e s a r e a l s o
basic, they cause the water and alcoho ls to deprotonate . I think I can live with deprotonated methanol if it will com pete with
t h e a m i n e a n d t h e n g e t k i c k e d o u t b y t h e a m i n e i n t h e e n d . W h ether or not this happens, I do not know. If all esters are
about as reactive to amines, this will happen but I do not know.
I a m sure though, that the acid (the product of reaction with OH-) is not reactive to am ines in my environm ent.
My environment is m ethanol so there will be CH3O- ions floating around who m ust compete with the am ines for reaction. But I
noticed traces of water in the m ethanol bottle, so if water is m ore likely to deprotonate than methanol, considerable hydrolysis
m ight occur. This is why I ask this question.
John A shcroft October 16th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 4 2 P M

M e O H is just barely m ore acidic than water, while EtOH's disassociation constant is a tad sm aller than water.
You're not going to have anywhere near significant quantities of MeO- ions in the solution you describe.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > More Airport Idiocies
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Haggis October 14th, 2003, 06:03 PM

Upon bringing up www.msn.com, a headline caught my attention: "Airport screeners on the lookout for 'pillow bombs'." I immediately thought this would provide some
entertainment with disinformation and general ignorance. I was correct. http://www.msnbc.com/news/980084.asp Take a look for yourself.
A few sentences in particular were quite interesting:

"Al Qaeda operatives are being trained to apply special chemicals to the material inside to transform them into bombs." It makes it sound like a bit of these 'special chemicals'
can magically transform the (most likely synthetic) material into a 'bomb'.
"American Intelligence Officials have picked up several indications that al Qaeda is attempting to create a chemical called nitrocellulose to fashion explosive devices that could
be smuggled aboard jetliners." Funny how they say they are 'attempting,' although NC is the easiest nitration around.
"Among other things, confiscated al Qaeda training manuals show the sophistication of its preparations, the document said." Sophistication? HA! Any k3wl with drain cleaner and
stump remover can do it.
It has to be confined in an area to be explosive, said Gregory G. Baur, a former director of the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators.
Producing this requires somebody who has some sophistication and who knows what hes doing. I am not sure how 'confined' a teddy bear is, but usually they are sof t
and yielding, hardly confinement.
"If dried carefully, it emits no odor, but if dried incompetently, it has a slight etherlike smell." How incompetent is a person that cannot leave it out to dry. Etherlike?
"Nitrocellulose, also called guncotton or cellulose nitrate, can be created by combining cotton or cottonlike material with nitric acid or sulfuric acid, substances that are used in
various forms to clean drains and by artists in metal etching. Mixing in nitroglycerine makes the mixture even more dangerous. " Scary chemicals! All around us! Panic! Well,
thank you for telling me that NG makes NC more dangerous, I never would have guessed. Besides, in our terms, it would be 'more effective'.
bobo October 14th, 2003, 06:31 PM

I wonder what they are actually afraid of. Is it the NC that the bomber makes in his garage and smuggles aboard the airliner inside his teddybear? Or is it fear that he mixes
nitric acid with his turban while inside the closet?
What keeps us from taking explosives into a plane anyway? Is it the succesful detectors the weapon inspectors used to find Saddam's massive arsenal of WMD's with? Or a dog
who can smell NG and Semtex but not (for example) nitromannite? Metal detectors? Unless the USA have far more advanced techniques than we do they can't possibly stop
this.
It is an interesting thought however. Can you smuggle a large amount of fluids into an airliner and create an explosion one way or the other? Or a few kg of KCN or worse and
some acid to turn the airliner in a big flying gas chamber?
I haven't witnessed a runaway AP accident, but according to the horror stories about AP I keep reading... Could you blow a plane apart by tossing a few liters acetone inside a
bucket H2O2 with a lot of conc'd sulfuric acid at once (with emphasis on a lot, at once:D )?
EP October 14th, 2003, 07:37 PM

And how do you plan on brining all that liquid onto a plane? :rolleyes:

I think they should get several arabs to all drink as much chemicals as possible just before going through security. Once onboard the plane they can all cram into the bathroom
and puke their loads into the toilets and/or sinks. Any number of high expolisves could be made this way.
Anyone with the alquida email address should suggest this to them.
Sparky October 14th, 2003, 08:45 PM

I was deffinetly turned off (appalled even) by Microsofts 'news' that they put on their pages, especially the messenger adds they force upon you now if you have their latest
chat program. Then again, what can you expect from Microsoft.
I have to give this author some credit though, his story actually contained some facts. I have thought before of having a (white I guess) T shirt made of nitrocellulose. In a way
it seems like sort of a clever idea, with the hole hiding something in plain sight thing.
The thing that annoys me about this article is that they portray nitrocellulose as something new. The story is about the fact someone might smuggling explosives onto a
plane... ya, so what else is new? And the thing about adding nitroglycerine to the nitrocellulose is just wierd. I mean come on, if you add nitroglycerine to pretty much anything
it makes that something 'more dangerous'. Gotta love the way they put it - adding nitro makes it 'more dangerous'. Not 'more brissant' or anything, just 'more dangerous'. As if
the only reason to use blasting gelatine is to kill people.
To me the real part of this article is that the government agencies got word from 'credible sources' that Al Queda is trying to build a bomb like this. This implies of course that
they just about had a whole team working on it. I mean come on how many people does it take to produce some nitrocellulose? They could freaking pack their briefcase with
sheets of flash paper with printing to disguise the sheets - you can go out and buy flash paper for crying out loud. It really emphasises what one reasonably bright person could
do by themselves (with nobody to squeal on them) if this is the way goverment agencies catch people. Good thing these people aren't reasonably bright eh :p .
The next thing you know the security gaurds will be running around with torches checking to see if peoples clothes are nitrocellulose :D .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > C an't be just coinsedence....
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Today when I have visited I have seen two new m embers witht he nam e s o f :
ObtuseRhadon (sorry can't find his pro file)

P I L O U 6 5 1 ( h ttp://www.roguesci.org/theforum /m e m ber.php?actio n=getinfo&userid=4330)
I n c a s e y o u h a v n ' t n o t i c e d O b t u s e R h a d o n i s a r i p o f f o f t h e M o d R h a d o n a n d P I L O U 651 is a rip off of PHILOU x x x x x ( s o r r y I

can't rem eber the rest of it bu t it has a Z in it)
But I'm s u r e t h e y h a d n o i d e a :rolleyes:
Anath October 15th , 2003, 10:48 AM

Y e a h , I n o t i c e d t h a t o n e m yself..
anyway, here is the link to ObtuseRhadon (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum /m e m ber.php?action=getinfo&userid=4 328)
megalomania October 15th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 3 : 5 0 P M

I ' l l s q u a s h t h e m b e f o re they are approved.

Justice is served :cool:

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > TAG and Potassium Nitrate
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Nehebkhau October 15th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 0 : 2 6 P M

I'm looking to get into HNO3 synthesis using the whole condensation me t h o d a n d s o I ' m lookin to buy potassium n itrate to
u s e a s m y nitrate source. I went on skylighter.com and they have the stuff with .05% TAG for $4.32 a lb, and they have the
kind that's chunky for $2.71 a lb. Just wondering whether or not i need the TAG in it to m ake things easier and exactly what is
TAG by the way? Will it inhibit any basic chem ical reactions. I've read som ewhere on the forum about skylig hter putting people
on "the list" so if there's a safer place to get th is stuff I'd appreciate the info. Also let m e throw an other question in here about
HNO 3 while I'm at it, I've read the HNO3 the Easy W ay forum 2 tim e s a n d m a y b e I ' m just blind but could som e o n e p l e a s e t e l l
m e exactly h ow m uch KNO3 i should use with the H2S04? I know i should be able to figure this out by looking at the equatio n
for the chemical reaction but i'm just not getting it. thx

Y o , m a n , c h i l l . n e w b i e s l i k e u s a r e n ' t s u p p o s e d t o b e a s k i n g o b v i o u s ( t o m o s t o f t h e m e m bers here) questions. Especially in a
new topic. write the ballanced equation s and look up the molecular weigh ts of the reactants. Use proportion a t e a m o u n t s , b y
weig ht, of these reactants. figure in the concentration of your acid and salt. Most people are using an excess of nitrate. As the
reaction proceeds, I adjust m y m ixture; if I add a little acid, and don't see m u c h h a p p e n i n g ( u s u a l ) , I a d d s o m e nitrate and
s e e r e d f u m es. Once things calm down again, I add a little more nitrate, etc. I''m getting good results, this way, just proceed
slowly and watch the temp of the vapor in the reaction vessel (sp).
I a m paranoid to point of being com mitted, so I don't order anything even slightly suspicious on the net. U SP saltpeter is
available in m ost pharm acies, on the shelf. Fertilizer grade potassium and sodium nitrates are mu c h c h e a p e r , a n d g o o d
enough quality for HNO3. Farm & Home supply stores are a GREAT source of chemicals.

Nehebkhau, you are right, newbies shouldn't post stupid questin s but his is the water cooler and the water cooler serves the
purpose of letting newbies asking stup id questions without getting banned.
I don't know what TAG is but it m i g h t b e s o m e anti clum ping agent, I've seen it a dded to KNO 3 on several occations. That
"shouldn't" a ffect the reaction but as I don't really knoiw what TAG is, dont'y take my word for it.
T h e r e a r e b e tter sources of KNO3, search the forum and you'll find them .
Anthony October 16th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 2 : 1 9 P M

Triacylglycerol?
BTW , as watercooler threads go, this isn't a bad one, so no need to get worried :)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > My precious EMC
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NoltaiR October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 2 : 0 8 P M

Am idst m y m isfortune that I cam e across when replying to the nickname meanings topic, I discovered that an old project (that
I still have hopes of finishing som eday...) was deleted from its location at brinkster. The shortcut address is
e m catalogue .cjb.net. The only reason I could find for th e m d e l e t i n g i s b e c a u s e I h a d n ' t u p d a t e d i t i n a l o n g t i m e , a lthough I
find that to be a rather lame reason.
Oh well m y p oint in posting this topic is that if anyone o ut there has back-ups... from google or wh ereever of m y site then
plea se contact m e at noltair@yahoo.co m
And with the added finding of Arthis' quote "I tried to make a sh ort synthesis abo ut AP, as we wanted to do l o n g a g o ( n o t
especially ab o u t A P , r e m e m ber Noltair's project). I had som e tim e (not m uch) so here it is." in the topic a AP beginner's guide
I got the notion that m aybe at least a couple o f p e o p l e h a d s t u m bled across the site in the days that it was functional.
All h elp is ap preciated.
peterthesmart October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 2 : 2 1 P M

You're in luck, I've found the som e o f t h e c a c h e o n g o o gle.
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:9e2QMhjdyasJ:www28.brinkster.com / e m c a t a l o u g e / f i l e /
diction.htm l+emcatalouge&hl=en&ie=U TF-8
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:vQZYUUMPzAYJ:www28.brinkster.com /em catalouge/file/
e s . h tm +emcatalouge&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Rhadon October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 2 : 5 3 P M

Moving to W ater Cooler.
Nevermore October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 1 : 3 9 P M

http://www.********************/pdf/
http://www.********************** .html
+++++++++++++++++
No posting of inform ation on how to bypass PDF passwo rds on this forum . I don't know what it has to do with this topic anyway.
Rhadon
IDTB October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 1 : 4 9 P M

T h e y a s s u m e it's an abandoned account. Automatic account deletion occurs when the acco unt has failed to log in for 6m onths.
http://brinkster.com/TermsO fServiceGeneral.asp
I've used them once before, they're a pretty good service. :)
NoltaiR October 17th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 1 : 5 3 P M

Thankyou peter for helping.. I forgot how large some of the docum ents were that I had on the site.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > shit distillation
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I had a mixture of water, denatured ethanol, sulfuric acid, isopropanol, a nd a little sucrose with a trace of a slightly soluable
i n o r g a n i c s a l t a n d a n e v e n s m aller amount of various organic so lids, neither of which will melt at the tempe ratures described . I
used a retort with a m ercury kitchen therm ometer and distilled o ver alcohols between 70 and 85 degrees. Then I distilled over
s o m e water at 95 (da m n e d c h eap therm o m eters) which was slightly acidic. At the end of this distillation, the only reaction in
the vessel was when som e liquids refluxed back into the mixture. Can I be reasonably sure that I was able to remove at lea st
98% of the alcohol? It's im portant that I get rid of most of the alcohol, b ut I really don't want to raise the mixture much above
100, and would prefer to leave a little water in the solution. Using cheap papers, the ph is about 2. I should have paid closer
attention to the volumes, but I didn't really know the co ncentration of acid anyway (about 60%, I'd g u e s s ) .
John A shcroft October 19th , 2003, 07:25 AM

Your post: I had a mixture of water, denatured ethanol, sulfuric acid, isopropanol, and a little sucrose with a trace of a slightly
soluable inorganic salt and an even sm aller am ount of various organic solids, neither of which will m elt at the tem p e r a t u r e s
described.
Your signature: W T F ?
And that is m y reply.

Is it the NEITHER that confounds you? neither the organic solids nor inorganic salt will m elt at less then 110C.
The sentence structure is poor, I adm it, but we all know that the water, alcohols, and acid are liquid at STP.
frogfot October 19th , 2003, 11:36 AM

Grandy, we're not following your intentions... what you wanna do.
If you wanna take away all tra ces of alcohol from your goo while keeping temp not higher than 100*C, then heat it in water-
bath for long er times.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Searching Tips
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MrSamosa October 20th, 2003, 08:19 AM

We like to stress the importance of searching and research to new members... We simply say, "Do a Google Search," or "Search the forum," but never really give good tips on
HOW to search. I know some long-term members have developed searching strategies that return them meaningful results very quickly. I think it would be beneficial to list any
of your searching strategies in one place, so newbies can learn HOW to search, so they do not become frustrated and ask stupid questions.
As for me, I would like help when it comes to searching Patent Libraries. Those have repeatedly frustrated me, and I have not been able to find any interesting patents.
I dont have many tips to offer, actually just one which I'm sure many of you know alread:
- When looking for Material Safety data sheets, type the chemical name + "Material Safety" with the quotes. Don't type "MSDS", as I find that returns a lot of junk.

I have a little trouble with the seach function on this forum. If I search for sodium chloride, the search returns every post with sodium and every post with chloride. Maybe I just
don't know how to search this forum very well, or maybe improving the search capabilities would be a major pain for the people who run it, I don't know.
Also, sometimes I know what I want to find, but don't know the proper terminology for it. I don't mind doing my own research and don't expect to be spoonfed, but it would be
nice to be able to request a little information here without getting some major attitude. If I had a chemist friend who wanted to build an electronic circuit, I would gladly tell him
what terms to search for and what subjects to learn, and then fill in the details myself. A reply of "GO SEARCH" is not very helpful. Of course, any forum will attract a few idiots
who do not know how to search, but most people have already done some searching before posting a question. Their problem is usually one of not searching the correct terms,
and someone knowledgable should be able to help guide their search.
When doing a web search (google is not the only search engine, btw) look at the headings: The first results are "sponsored links" these are the guys with something to sell.
The next section contains "search results" and are usually more informative. Sometimes the best information is WAY back in the results, sometimes several pages. Also, if you
hit on a forum, use the search function within that forum, and you may find some great stuff. Also, some of your hits may contain links; check them out. Thes are some of my
methods which work pretty well.
DBSP October 20th, 2003, 12:27 PM

The best search tip I can give you all is to be patient. I have spend spend enormous ammounts of time att google. Typing in one word searching that word going through the
first few hundred hits and then reapeating the process using the next word and so on. Once you have spend some time searching you get to know google and when you get to
know google it's quite easy to find what you are looking for.
For instance searching with the advanced options and only searching for PDFs only, using the search term: SC or EFP, gives you a rather large ammount of good PDFs on the
topic.
To round things up the best advice I can give you is to spend lots of time searching, you can't expect to find things on the first page, you may have to spend several hours to
find what you are looking for....
Arkangel October 20th, 2003, 12:33 PM

I can't remember which thread it was, but Primopyro from the Hive gave some excellent searching tips a while back. This (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?
s=&threadid=1840) is one thread that discusses it, but I think there's another more specific post by him that covered searching, and every noob should read it. You could start
by searching for that thread;)

I've always found the word 'synthesis' to be a very good one to add to searches for detailed chemical processes. Filters out most of the sites just selling stuff.
I agree with grandyose - sometimes the hardest part in finding an answer is knowing how to ask your question. Example : me , when looking for the mix used in Christmas
crackers - got nothing useful out of google until someone here suggested searching for 'pull string'( Thanks!) I never, ever would have thought of that.
Perhaps the water cooler would be a good place to allow requests for nomenclature - not spoonfeeding, just general directions.
Nihilist October 20th, 2003, 08:47 PM

This is the most comprehensive guide to how search engines work, and how to use them to your greatest advantage that I know of: http://blacksun.box.sk/tutorials.php/id/
129 It is incredibly helpful in refining your searches and allowing you to understand just how search engines like google parse and get results for your queries.
Anthony October 21st, 2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by grandyOse
I have a little trouble with the seach function on this forum. If I search for sodium chloride, the search returns every post with sodium and every post with chloride.
Searching for "sodium chloride" should fix that.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > stolen bike
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rubberchiken October 21st, 2003, 07:20 AM

well, today som e fucked-up in dividuals stole my nice brand new bike from school, while i was at school. they broke into the
bike lockers, and cut the lock up. i was curious if anyone had som e interesting ideas of...a deterrent, if you will. i was thinking
of wiring a stun-gun into m y seat, which i could turn on and off. when the would-be thieve sits down, he loses any chance of
having children :D.
any other ideas?
bobo October 21st, 2003, 08:15 AM

C a n y o u m ount a device that broadcasts a sign al when the m otor is on? W hen the thief is close to your receiver you get a
warning;) I thought of this for my car, unfortunately I have next to no electronic skills. But the stun gun will m ost likely fry your
own balls if you forget to turn it off.
wrench352 October 21st, 2003, 09:50 AM

Ever think of taking the front tire off while your gone?This will de ter all but the m ost determ ined bike theif.Use a Kryptonite
lock too.
grandyOse October 21st, 2003, 10:41 AM

D o y o u c a r r y a b o o k b a g ? t a k e the seat or pedals with you. If looks aren't important to you, m a k e y o u r b i k e l o o k o l d a n d
fucked up. That what I did with my truck. Rem o v e l o g o s o f e x p e n s i v e c o m ponents or replace with cheap ones (the logos, not
the com ponents). Thieves are generally in a hurry and they are not going to stop to inpect the drive train o n a rusty bike
without a seat. Schools are so fucked up these days, I hope they will let you take a hex key inside . I remem ber kid s bringin g
their new deer rifles for show and tell. Sure wou ld like to go back to those days.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Vote Arnold (funny)
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http://www.m iniclip.co m/arnie.htm
I thought this was funny, and reasonably current affairs, if a little old.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > private investigation
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O K m y m ate got started on th e o t h e r w e e k a n d b e a t t h e f u c k o u t o f s o m e townie. now the guy is pressing charges for ABH
(actual bodily harm ).
anyway i was wondering, supposing he wanted to get som e o n e t o g o p o k e around and check out all the sta tem ents, to find
weaknesses in the story, what are the U K laws on this. do you have to have a PI licence or similar, or would a representitive om
m y m ate be perfectly entitled to go en q u i r e a b o u t t h e s t a t e m e n t s .
d o e s a n y o n e know any usefull advice for this kind of wo rk, or an y loopho les m y m ate could exploit to get off this charge.
By the way this is UK law i'm e nquiring about
Arkangel October 21st, 2003, 04:49 PM

1. Make sure your m ate has a good lawyer. He's entitled to free legal representation and he should m a k e t h e m ost of it.
2. The solicitor should be able to m a k e b a c k g r o u n d c h e cks into whether the townie has any previous form. It would be ideal if
he had a conviction for assault or affra y or som ething.
3. The solicitor will also be able to see all the p rosecuton evidence - statem e n t s a n d t h e l i k e , a n d o n c e h e h a s t h o s e h e w i l l b e
best placed to pick holes in th e story
It doesn't sound like your mate has got a lawyer yet, and he MU ST get o ne. He should ask around the court service , or legal
firms in your area to see who has a go od reputation, it m akes a BIG difference who you go to.
I h a v e s o m e r e c e n t e xperience in this sort of thing, so if you want any advice, drop m e a line etc ;)
Other than the above points, som e o n e m ay be a b l e t o a d d s o m ething about PI or online snooping stuff. Didn't som e o n e f i n d
out a load of interesting stuff online about the guy who was pinching roguesci stuff? How did THAT work?
Good luck to your pal, anyway.
John A shcroft October 21st, 2003, 07:35 PM

I don't know about th e UK, bu t in the US, one is not allowed to discuss the defendent's previous le gal histo ry before the jury.
knowledgehungry October 21st, 2003, 11:24 PM

It m ight be admissable if there was a question of who instigated it, I'm not sure however. Actually I believe you are allowed to
bring in witnesses previous crim inal history before a jury, just not the defendants.
Arkangel October 22nd, 2003, 05:23 AM

W e're not talking about the defendant's record here, we're talking about the person pressing the charges. If he has a record it
would help, assuming your friend is of im peccable character.
zeocrash October 22nd, 2003, 06:05 AM

m y friend is of almost im peccable character, 1 written caution an d s o m e m inor driving offences, bu t his previous convictions
wont be consdered anyway as far as i'm aware.
From what i've hear there's a good deal of inconsistency in the witness statem ents, which a god lawyer should be able to work
with.
to his disadvantage though, when he was arrested, he did not sit tight and wait for his lawyer, he told them his version of event
s o h e could get out of there as quickly as possible.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Safety issues
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bobo October 21st, 2003, 07:47 PM

What kind of safety measures are you guys using? I am looking for combat wear anyway and was wondering if flak jackets and the like would do any good when working with
AP, APAN and the like.
While walking past some of the yearly anti fireworks campaign stuff with blown off fingers and so on I started to consider buying motor gloves or something like that. Last
weekend I met a guy who's into live roleplaying and he showed me some butchers chainmail. This stuff is supposed to protect your fingers from a butchers knife, so I wonder
what help it would be in our business.
I reason that glass shards and shrapnel flying around are the main cause for ripped off limbs, but an explosion that's not even that big can blow a wooden plank in two. When
does an explosive have enough power to disintegrate or otherwise amputate fingers, hands and heads?
Also, what causes eye injury besides shrapnel and splats of NaOH?

If you are holding something in a closed fist then the charge may be much weaker, your hand becomes the shrapnel:o. However if your holding it open handed you stand a
better chance of keeping digits, anything over 1 gram can do some very serious damage, even on an open hand. Any oxidizer, acid, base or reducing agent will damage your
eyes. Safety glasses are to be used at ALL times!
flash619d October 22nd, 2003, 12:57 AM

I (and many others I would imagine) use reasonable caution as my primary safety mechanism. When dealing with chemicals, wear simple safety gear, like safety goggles,
gloves and an apron. As for explosives, prevention is far better than any cure. Treat them with respect, and you will have no problems. Flak jackets and such may seem to be
a good idea, but with even moderately large charges(>50g), they would amount to little more than extra shrapnel. As for motor gloves or butcher's mail, save your money.
Butcher's mail would probably just make lots of sharp steel bits to get blown into your hand. Anyway, if anything goes off in your hand, you screwed up bigtime. The best way
to avoid injury is to act intelligently and do your homework before doing anything.
bobo October 22nd, 2003, 05:01 AM

I use goggles and gloves, as well as earplugs. When working with chemicals, the danger of explosion is in my case less than the chance of getting nasty chemicals in the lungs,
etc.
But, even if you have done a great synthesis of AP, it's still AP right? I am thinking what difference protection would make of say kevlar gloves when a few g of compressed AP
goes close to your hands.

Kevlar gloves will do absolutely shit all to protect your hands from AP. It only takes 0.25g of AP to turn your hand into mincemeat. I once conducted a series of tests using
gelatine hands. These were made by making a 20% solution of gelatine, filling latex gloves with it, tying the wrists in knots, and then leaving them for several hours to set.
Butchers chain mail will just make lots of shrapnel to ventilate your body if you have an accidental detonation.
Kevlar would help to protect against shrapnel from low explosives, but most shrapnel from a HE device will be going several times the speed of a bullet (normally, shrapnel
loses speed very quickly because it is not aerodynamic, but if you are close to the device then there will be no time for the shrapnel to lose speed).
The best way to protect yourself is simply to know what you are doing, handle explosives as little as possible, and take all the appropriate safety precautions. Safety glasses
are a must during ANY lab procedure.
irish October 22nd, 2003, 07:03 AM

My safety gear consists of a lot of caution, a cartridge resperator (sp), goggles, a good set of ear muffs and Kevlar coated neoprene wetsuit gloves (better than nothing).
As XYZ wrote to know what you are doing is the best form of safety.

I would also like to add that if you are handling primaries, you should make sure that any gloves or other hand protection do not interfere with your dexterity, the last thing
you want to do with AP is drop it.
That said, heavy leather gloves can be very useful for protection when doing things such as melting KNO3/Sucrose rocket fuel, and Latex gloves should be worn whenever you
deal with acids, strong bases, hydrogen peroxide, or other corrosives/toxins.
Other useful protective gear is a respirator/gasmask, a face shield, heavy duty elbow length chemical gloves (available at hardware shops for handling pesticides, I always
wear them when handling nitric or sulfuric acid in large amounts), an apron, and your common sense, it is also a good idea to keep a bucket of cold water nearby if you will be
handling conc. acids, that way you will be able to douse any spills with water.
You should also try not to wear any good clothes when handling corrosives as you will inevitably spill very small amounts, one of my best pairs of trousers had a hole burnt in
the knee by a drop of 99% sulfuric acid. Megalomania, the owner of this site, once had a runaway reaction that spilled drops of nitric and sulfuric acids onto a pile of his
clothes, putting small holes in all of them.
knowledgehungry October 22nd, 2003, 08:56 AM

I would reccomend neoprene or teflon gloves actually, latex gloves do jack shit to protect from HNO3.
Cyclonite October 22nd, 2003, 09:25 AM

A flak vest would work good, after all its used to reduce injury from grenades and such items. I have a couple of Iraqi helmets if anyone wants to buy one, they are about 1/4
the weight of a US kevlar. Who knows it may help.:rolleyes:
aikon October 22nd, 2003, 11:22 AM

my favorite apron is a thick (about 3cm) rubber apron formerly used by a butcher.
the gloves are acid resistance and cost about 30 in a special chemsitry shop. i know, that's a little bit expensice but they work just fine. goggles are a must!
while loading caps i recommend to wear a faceshield and heavy leather gloves too.
safety starts in your brain! don't be afraid of explosives, just have respect . do all steps slowly and be calm. if you are nervous and in a hurry while producing or handling
explosives the chance to get hurt or killed is much more higher.
bobo October 22nd, 2003, 12:14 PM

So basically the armor and apron would add substantial protection you as long as you don't hold the explosive in the hands. At a pliers range, would shrapnel velocity of a small
explosive have decreased enough to make it stop in protective gloves, if it's ordinary metal?
There must be a sort of 'quantitative' model to describe the 'body destruction' effect (or whatever) as a function of distance. I can imagine there's the explosion itself to
consider (shockwave) and then the shrapnel (which depends on size and shape). Is there a recommended book or electronic source that describes this kind of stuff?
Guerilla October 22nd, 2003, 05:28 PM

A pliers range? There is no way that some gloves would effectively stop fragments of a blasting cap from that distance. I just read somewhere how a guy who had pressed
HMTD into .22 casings using a 1.6mm thick steel shield as protection, when the cap accidentaly detonated, the shield was penetrated and the operator wounded by the
fragments.. why not to just stick with non-fragmenting casings? :rolleyes:
Spudkilla October 22nd, 2003, 05:55 PM

ALWAYS wear safety glasses. Someone I know was doing chemical testing, and somehow squirted herself in the sodium hydroxide (10% conc.) and was blinded in that eye for
a couple of days, and has temporary facial distortion because of it.
xyz October 23rd, 2003, 05:12 AM

I assume you mean that she squirted herslf in the eye with sodium hydroxide?
bobo, even thick steel plate will not protect you from HE fragments at pliers range. The pliers will just become even more pieces of flying metal to injure you. Using pliers or
other implements to handle explosives just increases your chances of dropping them or setting them off, using your hands but being careful is the only way to increase safety.
Bomb squad members wear nothing on their hands when handling explosives, if there was a form of protection then they would use it, but there isn't.
Cyclonite October 23rd, 2003, 07:45 AM

The reason for bomb squad members not wearing gloves is manual dexterity, otherwise we would protect them as well as the rest of the body ie..bomb suit. When
using explosives the best safety device is common sense, your worst enemy is complacency. Most of the UXO items iv taken care of I didnt wear a bomb suit due to I
knew what I had and a suit would get in the way or it was too big to make a difference. Bottom line for the entire thread is use common sense dont become
complacent and if you happen to be an idiot or very accident prone find another hobby.

Along with common sense, your best safety guard from explosions is simply distance. A few inches when handling a blasting cap can mean the difference between traumatic
amputation and a few cuts and bad bruising.
Plastic tongs won't generate significant schrapnel and could be used for handling sensitive things. Similiarly, holding caps by the fuse or wires is common sense.
I've never seen teflon gloves and I bet they're neither cheap not easilly available. Disposable latex gloves can be had from many places (car parts, DIY store etc) in convinent
quantites for pocket change. They'll give much better protection than nothing. Going off the top of my head (I can get figures for thin latex gloves if needbe), they'll protect
against 50% NaOH for 4-8hrs and against 70% HNO3 will give at least 30mins.
wrench352 October 23rd, 2003, 04:16 PM

I thought this was aan excellent piece on lab safety.Its part of an excellent treastise on running a home lab:International order of Nitrogen (http://www.nitrogenorder.org/
lessons/household.shtml#safety)
Also I keep a well stocked first aid kit with lots of water gel and trau-medics.:eek:
Sparky October 23rd, 2003, 05:47 PM

I always uses neoprene gloves when handling anything corrosive. These gloves are easily available because people use them to work with solvents when painting and such.
Typically a pair is $5 or so and they last indeffinately so there's no real excuse for not using them. They have good chemical resistance, better than nitrile gloves.
I also wear good safety glasses, though a full face shield would be nice. They are especially comfortable and clean. I bought them at a university in the same area where the
course books are sold. They are of course for the chemistry students who must buy them but anyone can walk in and buy them.
Ear plugs are also a good safety precaution, which would have saved my friend some discomfort a few times. He always wears them now when appropriate.
Wearing cotton clothes is a good idea too.

I forgot to add: I wouldn't wear ear plugs unless I was expecting an explosion, e.g. doing an impact sensitivity test.
Personally, I'd be worried that whilst wearing them, that I might miss subtle warnings leading to an unexpected event. Such as a faint hissing or popping noise coming from a
mixture that you haven't realised may have compatibility issues under certain circumstances. Examples might be nitrates and metals, or KMnO4 flash contaminated with a
solvent.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Making acetaldehyde or
form a l d e h y d e
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Sonny Jim October 22nd, 2003, 07:55 PM

I was thinking, that if you set up som e distillation kit, and where the condenser is normally a piece of copper pipe could be
h o o k e d u p . T h i s p i p e c o u l d b e h e a t e d t o a r o u n d 3 0 0 * C o v e r a n a r e a , a n d then cooled towards the other end.
You would evaporate your alcohol and then the vapor would pass over the hot copper, and I was ju st reading that it is possible
to oxidise alcohols to aldehydes this way. Im concerned that this oxidation could go too far though, perhap s to m ethanoic or
ethanoic acid.
W hat do you think? C o u l d t h e o x i d a t o n o f t h e a l d e h y d e be prevented, or wouldn't it even happen? Sorry if this sounds daft but
I have it stuck in m y head and am interested to see if it could work.
megalomania October 22nd, 2003, 09:24 PM

Sure it can work, and we have talked a bout this before... check out:
http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1857&highlight=copper+forma l d e h y d e
http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2089&highlight=copper+forma l d e h y d e
Mumble October 22nd, 2003, 09:34 PM

I t s n o t a n r e a l l y a n o x i d a t i o n p e r s a y I d o n ' t b e l i e v e . T h e m e t h o d y o u a r e s p e a k i n g o f i s c a l l e d d e hydrogenation. This m eth o d
o n l y g o e s a s f a r a s t h e a l d e h y d e . T h e o n l y t o m a k e a n o t h e r p r o duct different tha t the aldehyde or hydrogen, is to heat past
t h e d e c o m position point. I don't believe that only heating one end of the copper would do it. I think the he at would transfer
too m uch.
Besides condensing there are basically 2 ways to get the most am ount saved from evaporation. Bubble into a few ice water,
wash bottles if you will. Then distill off the acetaldehyde . It is also possilble to bubble into ice cold ether wa s h b o t t l e s a n d
m a k e t h e a m m o n i a c o m p l e x f r o m there. That is how it is done on Mega's site at least. I've never tried it, but i see no reason
for it not to work.
Sonny Jim October 24th , 2003, 06:01 AM

Heh, and there was m e t h i n k i n g I ' d j u s t h a p p e n e d u p o n a n e w i d e a ! O h well, that thread was very interesting, thanks for the
links.
I'm right in thinking that methylated spirits is about 95% ethanol arent I? I m ight try this with that and see how it goes.

Y e s , m ethylated spirits is about 96% ethanol with the rest being water and m e t h a n o l .
Dave Angel January 15th , 2 0 0 4 , 0 8 : 2 9 P M

I was just flicking through one of m y o r g a n i c t e x t b o o k s a n d c a m e a c r o s s a s e e m ingly simple reaction to m a k e a c e t a l d e h y d e .
Apparantly, ethylene glycol (anti freeze) heated to 900C at low pressure will lose a molecule of water and form vinyl alcohol
(the enol form of acetaldehyde). This will then slowly turn into the acetaldehyde by itself.
I have read about processes suggesting the use of an acid catalyst, however this seems to favor the forma t i o n o f d i o x a n e , a
useful chem ical in itself, but n ot what we want here.
T h e t e m pera tures involved certainly give rise to som e f l a m m ability issues, but I believe this could be a suitable rou te if
m etaldehyde is not available for the depolymerisation route.
Skean Dhu April 4th, 2004, 12:36 PM

I've been trying to find a way to make form a l d e h y d e f o r u s e i n a H e x a m i n e s y s n t h e s i s , a n d I s e e t h a t d i c h rom a t e s s e e m t o
be the easier rout to m a k i n g a l d e h y d e s a s o p p o s e d t o p o t a s s i u m perma ngate. Now I was wondering will am m onium
dichromate work for making acetaldehyde and formaldehyde. since being able to make your own Pentaerythritol wounldn't be
s o b ad either
I p o s t e d s o m ething like this last night and now I don't see my post so if my computer/ISP is retarded I apologize for the
wasted space/bandwidth

I don't know, you might want to check out the other thread on m ethyl alcohol oxidation using copp er. There are two detailed
labo ratory procedures taken from professionally publish ed literature sources.
Skean Dhu April 5th, 2004, 11:21 PM

I s u c e s s f u l l y m a d e a c e t a l d e h y d e t o d a y . I ' d g i v e y o u t h e m e a s u r e m e n t s a n d e q u a t i o n s b u t I didnt't do any, I threw the
chemicals together kinda haphazzardly to see if it would work. Anyways W h a t I d i d w a s e v e n p r o p o r t i o n s o f 2 6 % H 2 O 2 a n d
Denatured alcohol(wh ich coincidentally has som e ethyl aldehyde in it as a denaturant,the fruity smell) into m y trusty pyrex
W al*Mart Knock-off m e a s u r i n g c u p a n d t h e n a d d e d a s p l a s h o f H 2 S O 4.
General observations:
W hen I first added th e H2O 2 the m ixture got cloudy and over a period of 10-25 seconds(how ever long it took me to walk back
to the house to find my H2SO4) it got luke warm , then whenthe sulfuric acid was added the m ixture got a bit warme r and the
fruity smell of denatu r e d a l c o h o l g o t s t r o n g e r . T h e n a b o u t 4 5 m i n l a t e r I s t a r t e d g e t t i n g a h e a d a c h e a n d i t s b e e n h o u n d i n g m e
s i n c e ~ 5 p m m y tim e, sensative to light and all, similar to a sinus/light m i g r a i n e h e a d a c h e .
t o o k m e 3-4 tries to post this, I kept getting in terrupted
Marvin April 7th, 2004, 12:40 AM

W ith a liquid or liquid/solid ph ase reaction you are unlikley to get a good yeild of aldehyde without distillation, its too good a
reducing age nt itself. Unless you use an exotic chrom ate that is. Distilling a m ixture with hydrogenperoxide in it would not be a
good idea though.
Useful yeilds from m a n g a n e s e d i o x i d e / d i s t i l l a t i o n s h o u l d b e p o s s i b l e . Y o u c a n m a k e t h i s f r o m p o t p e r m a n g a n a t e b y its

reaction with manganese salts. Most of the methods I have tend to go the whole hog with purification by form i n g a n a l d e h y d e
c o m p o u n d w i t h a m m onia, preciptating with ether and regenerating the aldehyde. This m ig ht be related to the degree of
contam inatio n y o u g e t u s i n g o x i d i s i n g a g e n t s o t h e r t h a n p o t / s o d i u m d i c h r o m a t e .

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > My IP is banned?
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I came here as usual today and it says that the administrator has banned my IP adress. I'm here on an anonymous proxy at the moment, and it seems my account still works,
but I am concerned as to why my IP is forbidden. Does anyone know anything about this? :eek:
Rhadon October 24th, 2003, 10:55 AM

If you have a dynamic IP address the problem will be solved when you connect to the internet next time. Or do you have a static IP?

Aha! The problem appears to have gone. You must be right about the dynamic IP. You'll have to forgive me for being a little ignorant in the IP and whathaveyou field. Thanks
for the help though. ;)

I currently have premission issuses when trying to connect through AoHell.

There's a total ban on all AOhelL IPs in an attempt to keep idiots out :)
IDTB October 26th, 2003, 12:54 PM

Hahaha! That's GENIUS! Definite thumbs up to that, Anthony.

You should also ban Telstra bigpond to keep Australian idiots out :) .

This is kind of begging but PLEASE don't ban telstra bigpond users! I am one of them!

Lol, I was sort of joking, but then bigpond IS a somewhat crappy ISP :)
Sorry blindreeper
Blackhawk November 15th, 2003, 09:31 PM

hehe, If you want a decent ISP get Pacificnet ADSL unlim downloads for $99 a month at 512KBps with some good speed/service guarantees. They will shape your speed if you
dl too much (2Gb in 1week) but only to like 300KBps initially, not some stupid 28.8 like Optus.

There is no ADSL available where I live or I would have gotten it long ago :( .
Sir Dudalot November 16th, 2003, 01:52 AM

I get the IP banned thing a lot. The first time it happened I hadn't even posted yet and I kept wondering what the hell I'd done. Then I reconnected and it worked. Damn dial-
up...slow as hell too. I'm lucky to get 28.8 but that's what I get for living in a rural town. As for banning all AOL IP's....thank you.
Anthony November 16th, 2003, 09:39 AM

Man, you poor Aussies really get screwed when it comes to broadband :(

The main reason being that most internet usage in Australia is getting pages from the US anyway, and there are very few and therefore very expensive data 'pipelines'
between here and the states, or anywhere else out browsing would take us.

Blackhawk, what do you think communications satellites do then?
I would say instead that the problem is that cities and towns in Australia are much longer distances from other cities/towns than in other countries, making it a lot more
expensive to lay all the cabling.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Getting shot with a s p u d g u n
and the hum an response
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View Full Version : Getting shot with a spud gun and the human response

*rich guy voice on* After much reseach into hum an pain...*rich guy voice off*
Nothing technical here guys and few girls. Since w e a l l l i k e a g o o d l a u g h I d e c i d e d t o s h o w y o u g u y s s o m e v i d e o s o f g e t t i n g

shot by my metal spud gun (http://www.geocities.com /blindreeper_chem istry/spud.htm l ) ( y o u c a n s e e s o m e i n g u r i e s a n d
m o v i e s t h e r e ) a n d t h e h u m a n result. I was going to post this in the old thread about my spud gun b u t a l a s i t h a s b e e n
dele ted.
W ell I'll post the links to som e o f t h e m ovies h ere (even though you can downlaod them from the website above:
1 (http://www.geocities.com/blindreeper_chem istry/hit1.MPG)
They are all great but num ber 10 is a bit raunchy :p
I did string a ll the m ovies together into one big .W MV b ut geocities won't let me upload wm v files. So you have to g et them
individually. They are roughly 350kb each.
Enjoy!
EDIT: Stupid "exceeded its allocated data transfer" now you have to wait a while to get the m ovies. Sorry but when you get the
chance go for it!
Anthony October 25th , 2003, 10:34 AM

Your bandwidth is already m a x e d o u t , c a n ' t y o u u p l o a d t h e m to the FTP?

I've said it several times, use www.ima gestation.com for upploading-posting vids/pics, as long as the m o v i e s a r e i n m p e g , a n d
there is no size lim it, AND they don't run out of bandwith!!!
These free hosts got very lousy bandwith, don't use them when there are better alternatives.
The above is of cource if you don't need a hom epage or can't uppload to the FTP.
Mumble October 25th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 2 5 P M

An aquintance of m ine was go ing to let m e d o t h e s a m e thing to him. Only from what I ca n tell, my cannon is a bit bigger(7
feet, and capable of at least 1000 ft. in distance). I got to shoot him in the chest, if he co uld kick m e in the crotch. He backed
out when I shot a potato through a barn (both sides). Besides, he owes m e m oney, and I wouldn't cash in if I impaled him
with a potato at 200m ph+. The want to rem ain a free m a n l o n g e n o u g h t o l e g a l l y b e a b l e t o d r i n k a b e e r i s a b i g g o a l o f m ine
as well.
By the way, I love the com entary in the australian accent. It just adds another layer of hum or onto it for som e o d d r e a s o n .
chemwarrior October 25th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 8 : 1 8 P M

Hes Australian... how is that funny??:confused:
Be polite to people of other nationalities, else you yourself will look like an ass.
blindreeper October 25th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 0 : 3 6 P M

I love it when people think Australians talk funny cause you sound funny to m e!
I take no offence about how we talk.
I will upload the 3 m inute m ovie to the FTP, I will put it in the uploads section called "The boys take hits"
Lil_Guppy October 25th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 0 : 3 8 P M

I think its a little too late for him chem warrior :p
Quote: I love the com entary in the australian accent.

Did you think it was a put-on accent? :rolleyes:
D a m n funny btw blindreeper :)
blindreeper October 25th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 1 : 0 4 P M

Ok it's uploaded onto the FTP in the uploads/other/The boys take hits
It's in a .wm v format. Now all we have to do is wait for chem warrior to put it in the right section so we can all download it!
xyz October 25th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 1 : 2 2 P M

I have never shot anyone with anything other than wate r in any of m y pn e u m a t i c s a s I a m sure that they would cause some
s e r i o u s d a m a g e ( I o n c e s h a t t e r e d a 2 0 m m hardwood board using a C size battery in a sm a l l c a r d b o a r d s a b o t , a n d h a v e p u t
large dents in a sheetm etal bus stop using potatoes).
BTW , Why are we not allowed to download from the uploads fold er? Could a special folder where uploading and downloading
(but no deleting) is allowed fo r things such as this?
peterthesmart October 26th , 2003, 01:33 AM

I think the hosted images folder is supposed to do that, or maybe it isn't working?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that:) .
Maybe there should be a hosted videos folder as well.
Mumble October 26th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 3 : 2 1 P M

I m eant no offense in anyway. I don't think I a m better than other nationallities or any of that. Accent wasn't exactly the right
word either, but I could not com e up with a better one. I was just saying that som ething about the dialog stuck a little extra
chord with me. Sorry if it cam e off as o ffensive or derogatory.
nbk2000 October 27th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 3 0 P M

You're not allowed to download from t h e u p l o a d f o l d e r b e c a u s e t h e u p l o a d m ight still be in progre ss at the tim e, resulting in
file corruption.

G o o d t o s e e y o u a r o u n d n b k ! D o y o u m i n d t e l l i n g u s h o w the DVD progre ss is going?
You can download the m ovies here (http://www.im a g e s t a t i o n . c o m / a l b u m / ? i d = 4 2 8 8 7 4 4 3 2 3 ) . I t ' s a n i m a g e s a t t i o n f o l d e r s o

download away my friends!

T h e m o v i e s a r e p r e t t y d a m n f u n n y . . . " A n d h e r e ' s * * * * * , a b o u t t o t a k e o ne for th e team...bang...oowwww" :) :p :D
BTW blindreeper, did you get the email I sent you?

Yeah we have a bit of a Jackass feticsh. It is all inspired by Johnny Knoxville. We are m a k i n g a m ovie this sum mer, and we
h a v e s o m e f o o t g a e o f us setting m y brothers chest hair on fire with a zip po so that will be something to look forward to :p
xyz, I got your email and gave you a big ass reply and the supplier.
Lil_Guppy October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 0 3 P M

[CONCERNED PARENT VOICE]
Now dont you go lighting your entire body on fire with petrol and riding a bike off a toilet block with only a garbage bin full of
water to put yourself out with :p :rolleyes:
[/C ONCERNED PARENT VOICE]
Have fun doing your m ovie :)
xyz October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 8 : 0 9 P M

Blindreeper, have you seen th e trailer for Crazymotherfackles? It is similar to jackass but a lot more improvised/dangerous,
search on Ka ZaA for "CMF" in the videos section and you should find it, it is called "CMF Trailer" or something like that. If yo u
can't find it then I will up it to the FTP for you.
T h e m o v i e w a s m e a n t t o c o m e out last year bu t they lost a whole load of footage and had to delay it, it still hasn't com e o u t
yet :( .
EDIT: I would also like to add that MGI Videowave is a very good piece of software for producing m ovies, I have pro d u c e d a
short (15 m inute) m ovie that I made with som e friends and it was a very good program to use. Yo u can ad d m usic and special
effects and custom scene changes and all the cool stuff like that. You ne ed a cap ture card to get your taped video onto your
computer before you can edit it though.
AsylumSeaker Novem ber 1st, 2003, 06:07 AM

I a m downloading all of them a n d a d d i n g t h e m to m y folder of funny videos.
No Aussies are offended by people thinking our accent is funny. We love it!
Its funny in one of them , the cam era dude is like "how do I turn it off? How do I turn it off?" and waving the cam e r a a r o u n d ,
and in the background your hear screa m i n g a n d t h e g u y r u n s p a s t t h e c a m e r a .
blindreeper Novem ber 1st, 2003, 07:10 AM

Yeah we have decided to call our m ovie "Stoking the Bu n s e n "
W e will be doing some billy ca rt action in the m ovie and we are going to a shopping center to get some extrem e tro lley action.
W e h a v e t h i s o n e M c D o n a l d s p i c k e d o u t b e c a u s e i t h a s n i c e c u r b s a n d s o m e s i c k p h a t p h u n h e d g e s!
xyz Novem ber 1st, 2003, 09:48 PM

Larg e rocket motor attached to trolley?
blindreeper Novem ber 1st, 2003, 11:36 PM

I don't think think so! But if we can find ourselves a front whell drive car we are going to put the McDonalds trays under the
read wheels and go for a spin in the car park. I have se e n i t d o n e ! M a s s i v e d o u g h n u t s !
xyz Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 07:56 AM

You will have plenty of fun if the car is a VW be etle or other suitably sma ll vehicle , with about 10 - 15 people squish ed in :D .
The only drawback to this is that you can't drive over curbs or speedbum ps or the bottom of the ca r gets all scraped (the car is
REALLY low d own because of the weight).
I have always thought it would be fun to weld an anchor or three onto the end of som e stong chain, lock it to som e o n e ' s
towbar, hide the setup under the car, then videotape the results when they drive off. O r you could do this to your own car, and
claim you knew nothing about it if som e o n e s t o p s y o u .
Sp!der July 8th, 200 8, 08:56 PM

Am I the only one that the links didn't work for?
( I h a v e t h e s i n k i n g f e e l i n g I u s e d s o m e extrea mly bad gram m a r in that last statem ent...)
Intrinsic July 8th, 200 8, 09:39 PM

Considering all of tho se links are alm ost 5 years old, I am not too surprised.
Generally links are off site (helps save bandwidth for the forum ) , a s o p p o s e d t o b e i n g a t t a c h m e n t s .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > H2SO4 Accident
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View Full Version : H2SO4 Accident

As o f writing this, I have just spent the last hour and a half cleaning up 200mL of 98% Sulfuric Acid from all over the wall, floor,
a n d s e v e r a l s h e l v e s i n m y l a b , u s i n g 1 0 litres of water and 500g of NaHC O3. I was lucky that I was already wearing m y "lab
clothes" (the ones with lots of burns and acid holes in them already:)) and didn't end up wrecking any good clothes. My lab
clothes have a few more sm all holes now, but fortunately I didn't get any on my skin while cleaning it up.
I was also lucky that nothing im portant was dam aged by the acid (but it was an absolute bitch to clean up). I am glad that I
k e e p a l l m y other chems in well sealed containers, the last thing I want is for it to react with a nitrate and m ake an acid that is
m uch nastier to clean up. My lab has concrete floors instead of carpet which is another thing I am very glad of right now.
The way I m anaged to get into this predicam ent was by having the abovem e n t i o n e d a c i d i n s i d e a s m all plastic bottle that
m anaged to hold the acid for several hours before the bottom was eaten away. I had assum ed that all plastics were safe fro m
H2SO 4 and that only HNO3 attacked plastic:o, this was because my H2SO4 cam e in a plasic container, I have used plastic
containers fo r it before, and I have never read anything about it attacking plastics.
Anyway, it appears that a few types of plastic can be attacked by H2SO 4, which is something that I should have kno wn but
didn 't. I hope that som e o n e e l s e c a n l e a r n f r o m t h i s d u mb mistake as it is always better to learn from s o m e o n e e l s e ' s
m istake than m a k e t h e s a m e m istake yourself.
vulture October 26th , 2003, 10:30 AM

Concentrated H2SO4 attacks alm ost al plastics because it's acts as an oxidizer in concentrated solution. Dilute H2SO4 (85%<
IIR C) isn't that much of an oxidizer anymore.
The only things that will resist conc H2SO4 for a reasonable am ount of tim e are HDPE, PTFE and other chlorinated/fluorated
plastics I guess.
Cyclonite October 26th , 2003, 10:36 AM

x y z I h a d t h e s a m e t h i n g h a p p e n t o m e but in the back of a car, I guess you didnt see m y post. It was about 3 or 4 weeks
ago.
A few days ago I "fou nd" 5 ga l of 98% H2SO4, I had no place to keep it so I poured .5L of it in a plastic bottle. Big mistake,
the H2SO 4 ate through the bottle and onto the upholstery of the vehicle I was using. All the acid iv used ca me in plastic, I
guess it was a different type. That took a while to clean up.
xyz October 26th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 6 : 5 2 P M

vulture, yes, I am fairly sure that the plastic container it came in was HDPE.
Cyclonite, It is one of the worst things to have to clean up isn't it. It is fluid enough to flow into all the small spaces and
through small gaps but it is also sticky enough to stay on things and eat into them . I didn't see your post as my IP was
banned accidentally for 3 weeks and I only got back onto the forum a we e k a g o .
I will be using glass or HDPE from now on.
Tuatara October 27th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 4 8 P M

I wouldn't trust plastic at all, not even the plastic containers the acid was supplied in. The 68% Nitric I bought cam e in a plastic
jerry can. Blo o d y t h i n g d e v e l o p e d a p i n h o l e i n t h e b o t t o m and I lost 5 litres through the hole that got eaten in the floor. All m y
acid is in glass now! (I'm fortunate enough to own 5 ten-litre pyrex stock bottles)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Michael Am m a r ' s " T h e C r a z y
Man's Handcuffs"
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View Full Version : Michael Ammar's "The Crazy Man's Handcuffs"
jelly October 26th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 2 8 P M

You have ignited all your explosives and poisoned or shot the m ost dangerous neighbours
with your im provised weapons?
Then it's time to take a break .

L e a n b a c k , g rab 2 rubber bands (and a magnifying glass:p) and try the following trick:
Trick (http://jellybelly84.tripod.com /trick)
..."T he Crazy Man's Handcuffs" is better known as one of the only effects David C o p p e r f i e l d
chose to perform twice on his television specials, and one of the only close-up effects
he perform ed in his traveling illusion show.
But it's m ore than that. It is the com p l e t e p r e s e n t a t i o n o f o n e o f t h e b e s t w a l k a r o u n d
p e r f o r m a n c e p i e c e s o f all tim e... bla bla bla ;)
mongo blongo October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 2 : 2 5 P M

I love doing m agic tricks! :) but it's hard to make out som e pieces of text on that scan. :(
jelly October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 7 : 4 3 P M

Nice to see o ther m agicians here :)
I have replaced the o ld pictures by pictures in a bigger size.

That's the best quality I could get out of the old scans.
Trick (http://jellybelly84.tripod.com /trick) (new pics)
mongo blongo October 30th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 1 0 P M

Thanks jelly that's m u c h b e t t e r ! I ' m g o n a f r e a k s o m e peope out with this one :D

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Im purities and dyes in Drain
H2SO 4
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View Full Version : Impurities and dyes in Drain H2SO4
Zeitgeist October 28th , 2003, 02:23 AM

Just looking at this:
http://www.best-chem .co.uk/downloads/mo_flo.pdf
This is the stuff we get in Oz, it should be fairly representative o f most H2SO4 Drain products
This stuff is a dark brown liquid
Inhibited sulfuric acid?
So it is loaded with Cu and Fe cations to prevent it corro d i n g p i p e s ? M a y b e t h e s e a r e t h e i m purities that are so hard to
remove...
J u s t a t h ought
Blindreaper:
T h e r e s e e m s to be quite a bit of discussion about remo ving the im purities from these products, so i thought this might be o f
interest

Thats add my mo-flow is a rotten yello w colour. Most high conc. H2SO 4 is an yellow/brown colour. It appears to have no
im purities and works for all applications I have used it for.
Last thing I have no idea what was the point of your post. You basicly told us that m o-flo has contam inents in it and what it is.

I h a v e s o m e 9 8 % I n d u s t r i a l g rade H2SO4 that is a very dark yellow/brown, it looks similar to vanilla essence (sp?).
I t h a s b e e n g e n e r a l l y a g r e e d a t t h e f o r u m that drain cleaner H2SO 4 is OK for most synths and tha t the im purities d on't cause
a n y s e r i o u s p r o b l e m s, mostly just discoloration.

Apparently drain-cleaner H2SO4 is m ade from waste industrial acid, so contam ina nts could vary depending on what the acid
was originally used fo r.
I'd also like to know how they would stop it from corroding m etals?
Trinitrotoluene October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 0 : 3 9 P M

Drain cleaner grade H2SO4 would be fine for most synthesis, the dyes shoulden't affect th e reactio n. However if you want to
really pure you can try distilling it. It takes tim e though its boilin g point is very high, near the melting point of lead.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Small furry creatures ---> Red Mist
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View Full Version : Small furry creatures ---> Red Mist

I am posting this for those of you that this will appeal to (those of you with somewhat warped senses of humour).
Basically, it is 4 short videos that are excerpts from a larger one (but you have to pay for that and I can't find it from any Warez sources) where several guys obliterate praire
dogs with .223, .22-250, and .17 HMR.
Here is the link:

http://www.dogbegone.com/video.htm
I recommend downloading the "Maximum Carnage" video first as it is small but gives a good idea as to the content of the rest of them :) .
And here are some stills:
http://www.dogbegone.com/images/Close%20up%201a.jpg
http://www.dogbegone.com/images/Close%20up%202a.jpg
http://www.dogbegone.com/Images/Bullet1.jpg
EDIT: For some reason the pictures appear as links and won't show automatically.

No matter how sick it may be I share your sense of humour :)
It's fun to see how one of the dogs still have his/hers feet on the ground and it's head in position allthough everything behind the legs have been obliterated.
I've seen som nasty hits on birds I've shot. Even cut a magpie in two halvs with the 22LR once(yellow jacket).
Sonny Jim October 28th, 2003, 01:55 PM

Very entertaining. :D
seth October 28th, 2003, 02:53 PM

heh...
lonvin it :)
Trinitrotoluene October 28th, 2003, 02:59 PM

As sick as it may be, I find them very entertaining.
McGyver October 29th, 2003, 01:30 AM

Are they using HE ammuntion? Or is that what happens when you shoot one with a .308?
irish October 29th, 2003, 05:09 AM

That is what happens when you shoot small critters with very high velocity (between 2500 and 3000 feet per second are common for a 22-250) soft tip bullets, great effect
isn't it ;) . 22-250s are very good on cats and foxes too, under 100 metres it look's a lot like that :D .

McGyver, they are using bog standard OTC varmint ammo in calibres .223, .22-250, and .17 HMR and you would know this if you read my post at the top of this thread.
Now you all know why the .223 Remington is the standard US military service round :eek: .
A-BOMB October 29th, 2003, 09:48 AM

If the military used soft-point like they guys instead of FMJ it would make the round alot more deadly, here is a pic of a .223 ballistic gellitin test
http://www.steyrscout.org/terminal.htm
McGyver October 30th, 2003, 02:26 AM

I have shot ground hogs with a 7.26, but never had such *explosive* results. The only time something close to waht happens in the video is when my friend shot a dead hog
with a .308 it fliped in the air and splatered blood on my friend. :eek:

A-BOMB, unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it too, making the bullets frangible would make them less effective at penetrating armour.
McGyver, the explosive results come from the fact that the ammunition used is soft/hollow ponted and shatters or expands violently on impact
Axt November 28th, 2003, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by irish
between 2500 and 3000 feet per second are common for a 22-250 .
Add 1000.
A rabbit jumped out in front of me today, thought this would be one for the forum, aimed the .25-06 but only hit him in the bloody leg (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/
rogue.altlist.com/images/rabbit.jpg). But honestly ive shot rabbits with all manner of things and never had them explode like the praire dogs in those videos, they must be little
puss balls. Closest ive seen would be a .357mag (2600fps out of rifle) which gives a distinct popping sound and flying bite sized rabbit chunks, the faster ones just give a long
smear up the grass. Nothing as amusing as those vids :D
PanMaster November 28th, 2003, 01:14 PM

how could you do that to poor boo boos, how horrible, makes my rabbit turn in his grave
irish November 28th, 2003, 06:41 PM
Axt, thanks for the correction I looked at my post the next day and then couldn't edit it :( , I don't know what round I was thinking of at the time :rolleyes: .
PanMaster, the good thing about the calibers talked about here is that you don't need to dig a grave :D .

LMAO about the grave irish.
And BTW, you were probably thinking of .308 Winchester when you posted those fps figures.
Skean Dhu November 29th, 2003, 01:17 AM

i highly suggest yopu guys watch these 'cartoons'...........if you wanna call em that, http://happytreefriends.com/watch_episodes/index.html#25 goriest/most violetn thing i've
ever seen that started out so happy. glad i bought the DVD

HTF rules! Could you possibly upload the DVD sometime?
Bert November 29th, 2003, 06:08 PM

This business of using smaller, faster bullets is too uncertain for my tastes. Jus use a bigger gun (http://www.thegunzone.com/people/lahti.html) if you want more effect...

Personally, I also prefer bigger slower bullets, but oh the entertainment value with hypervelocity frangibles...
That lahti looks nice, Unfortuneately anything over .50 is classed as an artillery piece in Australia and needs government permission to import...
Axt November 29th, 2003, 11:16 PM

Are you sure? 10ga shotguns and .70cal muzzle loaders for examples over .50.
I think the Boyes anti tank rifle is 55cal. which ive seen for sale.
Anath November 29th, 2003, 11:20 PM

I've always liked the Solothurn myself..
irish November 30th, 2003, 12:50 AM

I prefer bigger faster bullets myself :D (300 Win. mag, 375 H&H mag etc.). Also there is no caliber limit here, large caliber guns for firing shells are a no no (pity ;) ) but on a
cat. B licence you can have muzzle loading cannon, I don't know if they will approve a permit for a 16 inch muzzle loader navy gun or the like though :D .
Ps I too have seen Boyes anti tank rifles for sale here and they are 55cal. (may have to save some cash :cool: , I think Ironbark ammo have rounds for the Boyes rifles).
darkdontay November 30th, 2003, 01:50 AM

Brings back memories of hunting Lawn gophers with my grandpa Joe.
Axt November 30th, 2003, 08:23 PM

Todays rabbit 1 (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/rabbitpieces.jpg) 2 (http://ww1.altlist.com/~52497/rogue.altlist.com/images/rabbitpieces2.jpg).
More solid hit this time :D
Rosco Bodine November 30th, 2003, 09:54 PM

irish ,
Hardly ever hear mention of the .375 H&H . IIRC the groove diameter
is the same for the .375 H&H and for 9mm pistol . So it might be
possible to use a lightweight 9mm jacketed hollow point pistol bullet
as a high velocity varmint load . A similar groove match exists for
the .458 Win Magnum and some .45 cal pistol bullets .
Has anybody else thought about this combination or tried it ,

or even heard of such a thing being tried ? The velocity and
energy would be quite high , like a .22 250 on steroids .
xyz December 2nd, 2003, 06:52 AM

Axt and Irish, there are no restrictions on calibre inside Australia, it is just that you can't import any weapon over .50 cal. without special permission (which I don't think you are
likely to get).
http://www.customs.gov.au/resources/Files/FS_Importing%20exporting%20warfare%20items.pdf
Axt December 18th, 2003, 08:33 PM

blah .. blah .. blah ........ movie (http://www.geocities.com/roguemovies4/index.html)

Nice movie Axt.
It appeared that you were pretty close to the explosion, weren't you worried about getting sprayed with flesh and blood?
Axt December 22nd, 2003, 03:34 AM

Nah, I was a long way from the camera. I was standing about where its head landed which you can see exiting the top of screen at high velocity.

How did you get the camera to zoom out? Were you remote controlling it?
udtst December 22nd, 2003, 05:22 AM
the animal was dead before you blew it up right?
Axt December 22nd, 2003, 09:34 AM

I just edited the movie, no remotes.
Of course it was dead, I just layed it down in position to stiffen overnight, so I could sit it up for the shot.
McGyver December 23rd, 2003, 12:26 AM

What kind of explosive did you use on it, ETN?
Axt December 23rd, 2003, 01:28 AM

It was actually two small charges, one of ETN and other of ANNM which I taped together. about 20g ETN, 40g ANNM at a guess.
Hang-Man January 7th, 2004, 06:40 PM

www.ebaumsworld.com/whaleblowup.html
what the fuck?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Pgp
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klassasin October 28th, 2003, 10:01 AM

Does anyone have a good tutorial on setting up PGP? I have just downloaded PGP 8.0 and I would like to know if anyone knows what I need to do to set it up. I have already
made my Pub, Pri Keys. Any help is greatly appreciated.
- Klassasin

NBK has written a good one. I think it was on the old FTP, and it should be on the new one. If it isn't there yet, could someone uppload it please, I can't find mine right now.
wrench352 October 28th, 2003, 11:30 AM

Got it,I'd love to return the favor.I also have U.S Navy Seal Sniper manual,want it?
problem:I've never been on the FTP before,do I need cutefix to upload?Sorry I did not anticipate this.
Until I get an answer I'll stick it in my shared folder on Kazaa...this text has been very popular this week:) !
Sparky October 28th, 2003, 11:04 PM

To access the FTP upload account you are best to have an FTP client like cuteftp. I use WSFTP. I think you can use your web browser but it will probably cause you more
difficulty than you have to deal with. If you don't have an FTP account you can still use the upload account. You can find more detail in the FTP thread.

Nbk2000 did wright a tutorial, but I don't know if he intended it for the general public. I have a copy, but it was meant for the staff of The Forum to use. I don't know if he
edited it for general release. The original tutorial contained personally indetifying information of nbk and the staff that precludes its release to the general public. He was
supposed to re-release it, but I don't know if he ever did. Let's wait for the man himself to chime in eh?

whoops,sorry about that.I dont recall there being any sensitive info on it.
Hmm, I see what you mean now.I cant keep myself out of trouble here can I?
I had gone over it several times and didnt think there would have been a problem,after all it had made it to me and was a really good walk-thru.
I was under the assumption(yeah,I know) as long as I kept the authoring straight it would'nt be a problem.
NBK,I apologize,I hope there isnt a problem.

I dont recall there being any sensitive info on it. Mega wasn't referring to the version you have but to the one which was only given to staff. If it had been published, the
information wouldn't be a secret anymore anyway.
klassasin October 30th, 2003, 12:26 AM

Just to clarify everything, to encrypt a text file with PGP I just right click it goto PGP -> and select Encrypt (8.0). Then do I just select who I want to receive it and then I select
okay and I then give that person the encrypted file who can decrypt with their own private key?
Also in addition to the above I have a question. I have a couple of people's public keys on the forum and have noticed the size of their keys is 4096 while mine is only 2048.
Does this somehow relate to the level of security involved? If yes, how do I increase my level of security? (Passphrase length?)
Rhadon October 30th, 2003, 02:14 AM

...to encrypt a text file with PGP I just right click it goto PGP [...] who can decrypt with their own private key?Yes.
Does this somehow relate to the level of security involved? If yes, how do I increase my level of security? (Passphrase length?) Yes, it does affect the security PGP gives you.
You can only set this value when creating a new key, it's an option of its own and has nothing to do with password length (although the latter does also affect the security of
your key, obviously).
Lil_Guppy October 30th, 2003, 06:48 AM

To increase your key size (to 4096), when you create a new key, click the 'Expert' button on the new key screen, and change the Key Size box to 4096 (or whatever you
want)
nbk2000 November 2nd, 2003, 11:22 PM

God takes pity on the mortals. :p
klassasin November 3rd, 2003, 09:48 AM

Why have thee not been gifted with God's grace?
Thank you for the PDF file. ;)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Hillmans site
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ozbourne October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 2 : 5 6 P M

Anyone ever got a responce from Hillm a n ? I e m a i l e d h i m f o r a m o n t h a n d h e h a s n e v e r e m a i l e d m e b a c k .

Considering the nature of your questio n, and your m e m ber status, your question would have been better suited to the W ate r
Cooler.
Also, why not explain yourself so that we all know what the hell you're on about?
ozbourne October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 5 0 P M

Sorry, I was inquiring about some of his products and I want to buy som e b u t h e h a s n t r e p l i e d t o m y e m a i l s . M a y b e h e s a w a y
this month. I noticed others are having trouble with returned em ail when I checke d h i s q u e s t b o o k .
A-BOMB October 28th , 2 0 0 3 , 1 0 : 2 9 P M

Telling us wh o hillm an is and the link to his site might help a bit, because I'm pretty sure that 99.96% of u s have n o idea what
your talking about.
Savage Gerbil October 29th , 2003, 01:19 AM

I believe he's refering to Hillm a n ' s C u s t o m works. (http://www.hillm a n s . n u/)
Can't answer your question, but I would like to add som e quick advice.
I believe the hicap magazines he sells are post ban, therefor, if you live in the USA, I'd advice either not purchasing them , or
having them sent to a location other than you're hom e.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Im printing keys...
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thepyrolooz October 30th , 2003, 06:08 AM

I h a v e a q u e s t i o n t o n b k 2 0 0 0 o r a n y o n e e l s e k n o w i n g h o w t o u s e n b k 2 0 0 0 ' s " d o n g l e " a s d e s c r i b e d i n I m printing keys http://
www.roguesci.org/theforum /showthread.php?s=&threadid=3040 ....
As it says it decodes the keys, but there are no num bers to decode it by..?
How would one use this genius tool...?
Rhadon October 30th , 2 0 0 3 , 0 1 : 5 8 P M

W hy not answer to the existing topic? No need to create a topic of your own! I'll close this thread since we d on't want two topics
discussing th e s a m e thing.
I don't think that NBK has actually built this device, he was just writing ab out an idea on how to copy keys e fficiently. That
doesn't mean that it will not work, it just hasn't been contructed - yet.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Halloween fun....
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Macgyver October 31st, 2003, 11:43 AM

Anyone done anything fun for halloween yet?
I have a nice m ovie that just needs to be transfered to the com puter/edited of an exploding ANNM pum p k i n : D
Efraim_barkbit October 31st, 2003, 11:07 PM

Yes, Ivebeen drinking alot of booze on a party. It was fun.
and this m orning I had nothin g t o d o , s o I b u r n e d s o m e A P a n d g o t i t o n v i d e o . a m ongst other, I m a d e a 2 5 c m long string
and ignited.
Yesterday, I also tried to mak e a AP cracker on tape, but I pressed the wrong butten, so I started The vide o exactly when the
bang is heard, but is too late too be good. but now I know that it is all right to m a k e a m ovie and that the digital camera gets
not dam age by big sounds.
so I will make some serious videos before cristm a s I h o p e . l i k e s o m e h u n d r e d s g r a m m es ANNM.
I wont be m a k i n g t h e 5 0 0 g r a m m e r I v e m e n t i o n e d b e f o r e , b e cause I dont have a good oportunity in the future before the
spring to get it on vid e o , b u t a t l e a s t 2 0 0 g s h o u l d b e O K t o g e t o n a v i d e o .
earliest in twoo weeks though. m aybee not in a long tim e b u t a s s o o n a s p o s s i b e . but I have to doo a AP synth before to get
t h e d e t o n a t e r.
sorry if it is not good gram mer or spelling, but the booze was ve ry tasty tonight
Anthony Novem ber 1st, 2003, 08:04 AM

I hid and refused to answer the door. Bastard little kids, why should I give them anything? If I have to bother getting sweets
(can dy), then I'm going to eat it m yself!
Sparky Novem ber 1st, 2003, 10:37 AM

W hen/if I ever have a house in the city on Halloween I'm going to hang this sign on the front lawn:
T e e n a g e r s W elcom e
D e m on Spawn Stay Away
Or som ething sim ilar. For som e reason, on Halloweeen, it seem to be tradition to treat students who are to o old to trick or
treat like dirt/scum/hooligans. Furtherm ore if you don't want to hand out candy you shouldn't have to hide in your o wn
h o u s e : m a d : . M a y b e p u t o u t a 'help yo urself' bowl that's em pty or don't put out a pumpkin and put a note on the door sayin g
your away (so what if the lights are on ;)) or too drunk to answer the door. O ne year we had a talking pum pkin that actually
scared some kids away :rolleyes: .
T h a t b e i n g s a i d , I h a d a g o o d tim e . P l a y e d l o t s o f p o o l a n d ( s i m ultaniou sly) watched m ovies on TV and ate free pizza. Set off
s o m e fireworks too, in an isolated place ;). I've been told that in BC it is comm on to set off fireworks on Halloween, I think we
should do our best to spread this practice.
Trinitrotoluene Novem ber 1st, 2003, 08:54 PM

I didin't want to pass out any candy. I was bored out of my mind so SWIM was out throwin g m olotov cocktails. A clear locatio n
was found, where it cannot be seen, so nobody was disturbed. Halloween was still enjoyful.
klassasin Novem ber 1st, 2003, 11:49 PM

I did nothing on Halloween ex cept eat, play vid e o g a m e s , a n d e at. I did that for over nine hours u ntil I was too tired and then
went to bed and slept for a whole four hours. Good 'ol Halloween. The wo rst part was that it was snowing and there was already
an inch or so on the ground with 17
' Fahrenheit(-8' Celsius?) temperatures. Brrrr.....
McGyver Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 12:37 AM

Tried to blow up a big pum pkin with a salute, with about 6~8 grams of flash m ade from bottle caps, didnt work. It b lew som e
p u m k i n g u t s o u t o f o n e e n d b ut nothing spectaculare. That much flash m a k e s a n e x e l l e n t e e p l o s i v e s o u n d but cant do much
m ore then that.
ALENGOSVIG1 Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 01:45 AM

H e h e i m a d e a hole in a large pum pkin a dropped in about 15g of ETN. :D
It blew the pum p k i n t o s m all pieces but i unfortunately took a piece of pum pkin shrapnel in the ass which really hurt and
caused a nice welt to form. :eek:
Ahh good tim es. :)
blindreeper Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 02:16 AM

H i g h s p e e d v e g e t a b l e s a n d a w e l t ? R e m inds me of getting shot with a spud gun!
Haggis Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 02:53 AM

I went to a party and brought som e p o t a s s i u m nitrate sm okers along. 40g, 30g, and 16g amounts in film canisters with quick
ignite fuses. It burned too fast, so it just gave the container a little pop and didn't catch the rest on there. Had to reclaim
resp ect and dissapointm ent by just dropping a match in there and stepping back. People were und oubtedly impressed, which is
alwa ys fun.
Macgyver Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by ALENGOSVIG1
H e h e i m a d e a hole in a large pum pkin a dropped in about 15g of ETN. :D
It blew the pum p k i n t o s m all pieces but i unfortunately took a piece of pum pkin shrapnel in the ass which really hurt and
caused a nice welt to form. :eek:
Ahh good tim es. :)
Hm m, I guess I was lucky not to be hit by pieces of flying pumpkin, m i n e h a d a C o k e c a n full of ANNM in it.... Think it m ight
h a v e b e e n ~ 2 0 0 g o r s o m ething like th at.
Now it'd be nice if anyone had a nice anonym o u s p l a c e t o p u t t h e m p e g m ovie at so others can share the joy of pumkin
destruction b y HE....
DBSP Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 04:43 AM

how many times do I have to say it::rolleyes:
www.im a g e s t a t i o n . c o m
id: theforum
pass: wiewingpics
just login and create a new album and put the video there.
Macgyver Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by DBSP
how many times do I have to say it::rolleyes:
www.im a g e s t a t i o n . c o m
id: theforum
pass: wiewingpics
just login and create a new album and put the video there.
O k a y , t h e m p e g s a r e u p l o a d i n g n o w . B u t y o u m isspelled the password, the first letter should read "v", otherwise you cannot
login to that account...
Flake2m Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 1 : 1 0 P M
W e l l n o o n e e v e n b o t h e r e d t o c o m e t o m y h o u s e , T h e n e i g h b o r h o o d I a m in is pretty quiet anywa atleast the neigh bors never
c o m p l a i n a b o u t m y experim ents:) .
I h a d s o m e i d e a s p l a nned and apart from the water bom b s , e g g s a n d s h a v i n g c r e a m f o r d e f e n c e a g a i n s t a n y o n e u n h a p p y

a b o u t m y carrot sticks for trea t s I h a d t h e b e s t o n e o f t h e m all.
*knock knock* "Trick or treat". I answer the do or wearing a gim p mask, and sharpening an 8 inch carving knife. If the little
bastards are still gam e and actually wearing som ething original then they might get some thing.
I h a d a l s o t h ought of some original costumes for trick or treaters.

Idea #1; white caftan , fake beard, turban and fake AK-47 - OSAMA BIN LADEN :D
Idea #2; Big black mostache, elvis style sunglasses, arm y greens - SADDAM HUSSSEIN :D
can you think of some better costum e s ?
ALENGOSVIG1 Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 2 : 0 7 P M
Hm m, I guess I was lucky not to be hit by pieces of flying pumpkin, m i n e h a d a C o k e c a n full of ANNM in it.... Think it m ight
h a v e b e e n ~ 2 0 0 g o r s o m ething like th at.
No wonder you didnt get hit by anything. The pum p k i n m ust have been blown to dust! :D
Macgyver Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by ALENGOSVIG1
No wonder you didnt get hit by anything. The pum p k i n m ust have been blown to dust! :D
Yes, there wasn't anything at all left of the poor pumpkin... :D
T h e m o v i e i s u p a t t h e site DBSP posted now, if anyone care to look at it.
IPN Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 07:41 AM

P o o r p u m pkin.. :D
It certainly turned into dust!
And it seem s that you had a lot of fun making it ;) :D
A-BOMB Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 09:12 AM

W ell for halloween I used m y R C F P D C ( R e m o t e C o n t r o l F l a m i n g P u m p k i n D r u n k C h a s e r ) t o c h a s e a l l t h e b o o z e h o u n d s t h a t w e r e
stag gering about infront of the bar. Its a pump kin attached to the top of the pipe with a h ose in it with a candle the hose if
attached to a can of butane and thats all attached to the top of m y R C tank with is black so they d ont see if that much com ing
out of the dark with the pumpkin on top spewing 2.5' flam es out of its fa ce. I think I stil got this video of this one drunk from
last year that I chased for about a block or so :D
Anthony Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 02:38 PM

A couple of years ago:
If you can't spot at le ast one of the many things wrong, then you need to turn in your National Socialist Party mem bership :)
mr.pyro Novem ber 4th, 2003, 12:11 AM

I h a d s o m e v i d e o s t o add but it seem s this is what happens when I try and login with that usernam e ,
Y o u r I m ageStation account has been deactivated. This is m ost typically because there is unacceptable content in yo ur account
or you have created links on other websites that directly connect to files stored in your account. Because of your failure to
m aintain your account according to the m embership agreement we have deactivated your account.
xyz Novem ber 4th, 2003, 04:57 AM

Nice costum e Antony :) , Honestly, have you all forgotten about ShirtNinja? It m a k e s t h e b e s t c o s t u m es!
Chech out ShirtNinja.com (http://www.shirtninja.com ) for the best 1337 cotton Ninja Styles. I am a m ember there (http://
www.shirtninja.com / x y z . h t m ) , a n d I I R C , so is Jhonbus.
If you want to learn h ow to becom e a ShirtNinja , then go here : http://www.shirtninja.com/help.htm

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > Is it just me, or does Jackass
suck?
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The title says it all really, I find myself one of few people who dislike Jackass, most other people being at least middle-aged.
Some of the stuff they do is interesting in an original, obscure kind of way - like the BMX jousting. That's simple, harmless
fun.
Most of the other stuff is revolting or just plain stupid.
I think the reason that I personally do not like it, along with other trash-TV is because it's not admirable, there's no talent.
*Anyone* stupid enough can do jackass, even I could do it, so why the hell is it broadcast around the world to millions of
people?
I'm not above childish acts, but they're funny when it's happening before you, inolving people you know.
Why the fuck is someone bathing in raw sewage, or slamming thumb tacks into their head a billion dollar industry?
Oh, and I generally dislike very popular things as there's no individuality.
So, am I alone in thinking this?
megalomania October 31st, 2003, 02:02 PM

Jackass is a symptom of the disease that is MTV. MTV used to have original groundbreaking content, they even has these
things called music videos where you could listen to songs and watch stuff at the same time. Now all they have are things that
appeal to teenagers, and the problems of teenagers are quite lame.
I cringe every time I see Ashton Kutcher trying some lame gag on a celeb, or some whiny ass bitch complaining about boys on
one of those increadably stupid reality TV shows they have. Why just yesterday they were filming some sort of cheerleader
camp training session, bull shit.
Even MTV 2 only shows a bunch of damn hiphop shit. That is not music, whatever else it is. I know damn well the black thugs
aren't watching it, it's all the rich milkfed suburban WHITE wannabes that like this crap.
*Sigh*, I'm too old for MTV and too young for VH1. What's a fella to do?
vulture October 31st, 2003, 02:49 PM

*Sigh*, I'm too old for MTV and too young for VH1. What's a fella to do?
Watch BBC :D
No seriously, this "nigga" culture pisses me off too, because those clips tend to justify crime, abuse of social service and
women as pure sex objects.
It's so fucking cheap.
thrall October 31st, 2003, 03:32 PM

Though a bit off topic and I'm a newbie but it's water cooler afterall.
True MTV in perticuler and entertainment TV chennels in general are showing the same tendencies as Vulture has
mentioned(and of course I don't watch any of them lately).But RIGHT now attending the youth festival of my institute I feel
like asking a question to
vulture:Aren't women just sex object? I always tried to think otherwise all the time.Again RIGHT now attending the youth
festival of my institute I feel they are sex objects because they behave like one.
bobo October 31st, 2003, 04:23 PM

I don't bother watching MTV or the crap on commercial TV cause it's a waste of time. I detest R&B, as I see this is
entertainment for monkeys. Perhaps it's indeed the white kids watching this crap, having nigga culture as role model sucks but
eventually this R&B crap will blow over. To be replaced by something equally stupid no doubt. But what does one care for
mainstream movements?
I agree with Thrall that many women reduce themselves to sex objects, but this is done by popular culture as much as their
own minds. Though at all times I prefer the looks of a woman who wears styleful clothing instead of next to no clothing.

Nigga culture is the worst, I'm too lazy to give my 3 page speech on it, i think ill write my college dissertation on it :). I have
met Bam Margera, and he's a fucking suburban cunt. I dont like him and he thinks hes a hotshot, but i dont get out of the
way for cunts like him so he doesn't like me too much either.
frogfot October 31st, 2003, 04:55 PM

Heh, Pablo Francisco (a comedian) made some really fun jokes on those black wanna-be gangstas on MTV, hope someone
knows what I'm talking about.. I recommend to search for this on kazaa or something.. :) (file is called something like "Pablo
Francisco - comedy central")
McGyver November 1st, 2003, 10:06 PM

Jackass was actualy a quality show compared to the crap they have on right now. I downloaded all 4 seasons of Jackass and
most the of the episodes were entertaining imo. I have to agree with Anthony, why should they get paid for what they do? But
on the other hand it is entertaining, and thats what its about.
zeocrash November 2nd, 2003, 06:51 AM

although i dont really like jackass, i prefer it to other similar shows such as dirty sanchez.
jackass atleast has some amusing stuff in, snowboarding down stairs, etc. . (punct)
dirty sanchez is like all the parts i hate about jackass, rolled into its own series. i could have gone seen it live at reading, i'm
glad i didn't. from what i hear their show involved shooting each other in the nuts with bb guns, sandpapering their assholes
and other such fun.
klassasin November 2nd, 2003, 11:18 AM

One way of putting it. How about I pass? I really don't understand how people can be amused by that stuff. Its a bunch of
idiots making asses out of themselves. There are a lot of shows I'd rather watch than Jackass. That is what I have to say.
- klassasin
Flake2m November 2nd, 2003, 12:50 PM

Some of the stuff that has gone on in Jackass we could admit to doing at one stage in life - the shopping trolley down the hill
is a classic. though quite alot of it is absolute bullshit, literally.
As for the rest of MTV, if they actually had some decent videos on such as Kylie Minogue :p then I would give it a better
comment. ATM MTV is simply infested with |-|aRd<0r3 G4|\|6$74R rappas that only use the music industry to make them look
cool. They are still dumb, violent, sexist thugs except they are dumb violent, sexist thugs that can make some money
legitimately by "singing" songs about being dumb violent and sexist
klassasin November 2nd, 2003, 03:29 PM

I agree. MTV is rap, rap, and more rap. They need rock, GO ROCK!!!
Sonny Jim November 2nd, 2003, 07:43 PM

Everything is black rap. I have to put up with it on the bus to college, and on the journey back. Not having to listen to that shit
is motivation enough to get my driving test passed.
I get quite irritated by the fact that they have no talent at all. I mean, any idiot can rap, yet they make as much if not more
money than bands and artists that actually have a measure of skill. Then there's their irritating additions to the English
language. Words like 'bling' I mean. Apparently that means money, riches or something? WTF? Oh yes, then there's there use
of the words 'yaw, yaw' at any point in their 'music' where they can't think of anything that fits their shitty bass line. That's
assuming they even write their own slobber, which I am dobtful of.
There is yet hope though. If they keep on shooting each other, maybe they will run out.
Tuatara November 2nd, 2003, 09:16 PM

I can't understand this sick facination with reality TV shows, like "Survivor" and "Big Brother". Do people have so little life they
need to do it by proxy?
I also can't stand the endless crime and police dramas, which seem to pay homage to the depths humanity can sink to, and
as such are too depressing to watch. Same as gangsta rap.
So by the time I cross off all the reality shows, crime shows, crappy soaps, and mindless movies, I'm left with "Scrapheap
Challenge", "Billy Connelly's World Tour" (Very funny!), and a wierd little Canadian cartoon called "Untalkative Bunny".
Sometimes I wonder why I have a TV at all.
nbk2000 November 3rd, 2003, 02:17 AM

Tyranny is Freedom!
Thinking is Ignorance!
Watching is Living!
Television...cure for the tyranny of freedom...the soma of the masses.
Stupid fucks watch TV and think that they're learning something. :rolleyes: It's a control device to desensitize your mind into
passively accepting, without critical thinking, anything that gets feed into it. It's also the lazy way of amusing yourself since
you don't have to do anything more physical than push a button. No picking up, carrying, opening, or turning of the pages of a
book, let alone all that tedious thinking required by reading! :eek:
You can't sit and contemplate the 3 second soundbite with the 12 embedded subliminal stressor images when you've got a
continuous barrage of this shit being forced into your eyes. The brain suffers information overload from the sensory assualt,
zones out, and becomes a passive receptor with the disinformation bypassing your higher thought processes and going
straight into the mammalian flight/fight reflex response center.
You become a passive sponge to absorb all the crap they throw at you from the screen. All thinking goes out the window while
you're watching. It's only afterwards that you can think about it, but by then it's too late, because your memory will be
distorted by the tricks of the trade into remembering what they want you to remember most.
Written text can be read, set aside to be thought about, then re-read to analyze it bit by bit and see just what the writer is
trying to convey (or hide). Unless you sit with a DVR and progress through it frame-by-frame, and de-layer all the audio
tracks, you can't do that kind of analysis of video. And, even then, you only see what they want to show you.
Remember, 80% of human sensory input is through the eyes, thus the majority of brain "CPU cycles" is devoted to processing
this information. Because of the predatory nature of humans, and the need to rapidly respond to prey/threats to our survival,
our brains process visual information without the usual lag that the other senses experience. In fact, our eyes have a "pre-
processor" as a bundle of nerves behind the eye that does (something, forgot exactly) that increases our visual capacity over
similarly "eyed" animals.
This makes us highly reactive to primary visual stimulus (movement/light-shadow/patterns), much more so than to any other
sensory input.
Rapid jerky movements of alternating light/dark patterns can trigger spikes in blood pressure (stress) without concious
awareness. Likely because of deeply programmed survival programs that equate such visual stimulus with snakes in the grass,
stalking predators, etc. Byusing such patterns and associating it with a certain person or group, a TV "programmer" can instill
unconcious fear of such a person/group in the target audience.
Even the language of the televison industry reflects its true purpose.
A "Programmer" is the person who decides what is going to be shown. And what do "programmers" do? Make "programs".
What is a program? A set of instructions to be ran by a computer. What is a computer? A machine that does only what it is told
to do in a set of instructions called a program. Therefore, you are an unthinking machine that does only what the programmer
tells you to do. :p
"Channels" are what you watch. "Channel" also means to guide or focus. To guide or focus something, you must first control it.
If you control something, then you are channeling it. Therefore, if you are watching a channel, it's because the programmer
has succeeded in writing a program that controls your attention sufficently to prevent you from changing it or *gasp!* turning it
off.
A television programmer desires to channel a target audience to his programs.
How many control words are in that sentence?
"Programmer" = Person who controls a machine
"Channel" = To control or guide
"Target" = synonym for victim or prey
"Audience" = passive viewer or receiver, NOT "Performer" or actor. One who is acted upon, not acting upon others.
"Programs" = Set of instructions by which non-thinking machines are controlled.
You know how much TV the great minds of the last 50 years usually watched? ZERO. Einstein didn't watch it (or radio), nor
does Hawkings. Does Ruttan, the man who made his own plane to fly non-stop around the world or his latest sub-orbital plane
watch TV. No.
Did the man who built the V-2 for the Nazis, and the Saturn-V for the moon landings watch TV? No. Neither does Gates or Jobs
and they're the richest men in the world.
If you ask the great thinkers, scientists (think the Newtons and Kepplers of our time, not the corporate hacks), and explorers
how much TV they watch, I'll bet on them saying ZERO (or close to it).
How many losers go home and veg out in front of the TV every day for hours on end? Countless legions...all living vicarious
lives through the multi-media whores calling themselves "artists" that are nothing more than silicone scultped dolls with their
strings being pulled by corporate puppet masters with their psychologists-demographers-focus groups-et al telling them how
best to rape your mind...while all the while not living their own lives beyond that needed to earn enough to buy the latest car/
shoe/razor-blade that'll make them cooler/hipper/sexier than their neighbors/friends/co-workers.
TV industry execs don't watch TV. They know better. Just like smart drug dealers know better than to use their own product.
To (sort of) quote RATM:
Turn on the televison

Naw, fuck it, turn it off!
Fear is your only God on the televison.

Naw, fuck it, turn it off!
Your savior
My guillotine
Flex your cerebellum

Fire!
What race watches the most TV in the US in every catagory of age, education, and income? Niggers. Which watch the least?
Asians. Of the two, who does the best in education and income, adjusted for population? Hmmm...tough guess, huh? ;) Fluke
luck? Doubtful!
What race dominates the TV industry (execs/programmers, not the talking heads in front of the camera)? Whites. (over 90%)
What race watches the most TV? Blacks.

Who were the Masters and who were the slaves?
Who are still the Masters? And who are still the slaves? :D
We've simply replaced the whips and chains of the previous slave era with the Gangsta' Rap and Nikes of the modern slave
era. The slaves no longer seek freedom now that their chains are so entertaining and exciting.
Why should a slave live its own life with all the attendant struggles and hardship when it can pick from so many ready-made
lives that are much more entertaining and stimulating with no difficulties that can't be solved within half an hour?
Freedom is Slavery!
thrall November 3rd, 2003, 04:25 AM

A great speech.Not an attack but staright invasion.One more barrage to overload (this time the logical faculty) the "litte"
human brain.
Here is something I want to say.The written litrature also contain a lot of crap.There are books that are "pure shit" if you
bother try to get out anything from them.Most of the magazines are abyssmally degenerated.Yet we read we think and we try
to "filter" the good out of them.
What to say about the news "channells";) ?They also filter and adds their biases.So is true for newspapers.In fact for almost
every TV program there is a written counterpart.
All is upto you.The filtering of the news to think and try to reconstruct the events.There are a lot of crapbooks on explosives as
well.the list goes on......and it's upto you to filter the crap.
I used to watch discovery and some of it's programs were good(lately I'm not watching antything,I stopped patially because of
increased frequency and duration of "commercial breaks" :mad: )
I do watch news channels.It keeps you in touch.
As for degeneration, degenerated people degenerate everything anyway.let it be music,painting,any form of art.It's bound to
happen so one should not be surprised about it.So the nigga thing:D remember these are trhe desendents of the people who
could not die defending their freedom and chose a life of slavery.(probably they enjoy it:rolleyes: ).
This happens everytime when a great war is lost.And all the conqured are the shit of the humankind who chose a life of slavery
over a a death with freedom.Remember survivability doesn't value anything but survival.In fact survivability of a sheeple is far
more than survivability of ..........say you :( (He won't play with explosives or poisons or do anything that is out the limits of
"Law":rolleyes: )
I'm not countering any of your points.All you said is true.This is something what you didn't say.
xyz November 3rd, 2003, 08:22 AM

Actually thrall, I would say that the "survivability" of us and the sheeple is similar. You are more at risk of death driving a car
or playing some sports than making HEs with the proper precautions. We also tend to be smarter than the sheeple and not do
stupid things. Who could imagine a forum member ever winning a darwin award?
Just as we make E&W, the sheeple do other dangerous things which we are smart enough not to do.
Ollie Snowie November 3rd, 2003, 10:51 AM

IMHO kewls are the result of all this television babble. I know this because I once had the most terrible kewl in my class (He
told me to make gunpowder with washing powder and sugar :D.). He fell into the trap of all the crazes that swept past us,
pokmon, digimon etc... all because the television advertising trap.
You know, I think this should be included in the "quizz to subscribe to the forum"; "what is your favourite television channel?".
I've never seen jackass, but I do go on http://www.stupidvideos.com/ and I find it quite funny. I can imagine the difference
between jackass and stupidvideos though; jackass is done by people who are at a loose end and are generally stupid, but
stupidvideos are either genuine, or well thought out.
As for rap, I can't see where the skill is. I mean, anyone can stand up on a stage and wave their hands in the air while
gibberjabbering. Just to cheer yourselves up, imagine a well accepted rappa walk up on stage, be laughed at, be stared
blankly at, be egged, blah... See what effect it has on you. Try to laugh. See if you hate rap even more. See if you can see
the fool in that looked up to rappa.
IMHO "toughness" is made by accepting the television babble as meaningful. Again, this is what kewls are after. It should be
made illegal to brainwash children into wannabe rappas. It's another of those little quirks of the law, like spammers being
protected by freedom of speech. If they really want to be so pedantic about their laws, why don't they make it legal to
broadcast radio and television without a licence over other frequencies? How about WHITE NOISE over the MTV frequencies.
Heh? I once transmitted over radio 1 and stopped someone who was being very annoying with playing it loud from being such
an annoyance anymore. I know it's short range but I still like to have an effect. It's like starting a ping war with an advertising
server - it gets the anger out.
Anthony November 3rd, 2003, 02:24 PM

Brilliant rant NBK! :)
Big Brother! Don't get me started... LCDTV at its worst...
What kind of loser tunes into 24hr BB coverage to watch other losers sleep?!
I also hate the way that these stupid TV polls get far more voters than the general election, which decides who is going to run
the country for the next 4 years!
My TV watching is a bit slim. Confined to the occasional good comedy (few and far between nowadays) and documentaries. I
think there's about a total of 4-5 programs a week that I'd watch, and quite often I'm busy doing other things.
I agree that Dirty Sanchez is Jackass but worse. Who wants to watch a guy push a screwdriver through his arm, or hold down
someone else and put burning matches under their fingernails? Them being Welsh probably explains a lot...
The only vaguely related program that I watched and liked was a Newzealand production called "Back Of the Y", completely
bonkers, offbeat comedy. I only caught the final episode of the series though.
Stone November 5th, 2003, 05:35 AM

I seem to be in a minority here... I actually like Jackass :)
thrall November 9th, 2003, 06:55 AM

Though late and a bit OT
/humer
@xyz
let me speak mathamatically
first model the thing
Risk of "normal" life(diease,accidents,natural calamity,misunderstood assasination blah blah...)
=R
This is the risk all people are exposed to(sheeple and you as well)
EXTRA risk of making explosives or any chem synth like poisons or anything
=Delta
(No matter how much precaution you take there is SOME risk so let that be Delta!=0)
let the initial population of sheeple be Ps(please read P sheeple)

initial population of the people of kind of xyz (or me:) )=Pf(Please read P free)
then growth rate sheeple (d(Ps)/d(T))=K*Ps
growth rate of free (d(Pf)/d(T))=K*Pf
mortality rate of Ps=R*Ps
mortality rate of Pf=(R+Delta)*Pf
so overall growth rate of sheeple d(Ps)/d(T)=(K-R)*Ps
for free d(Pf)/d(T)=((K-R)-Delta)*Pf
let (K-R) be C
then solving these equations
Sheeple population at time t is Ps(t=0)*EXP(C*t)
free population at time t is Pf(t=0)*EXP(C*t-Delta*t)
so the ratio at time t is (Ps(t=0)/Pf(t=0))*EXP(Delta*t)
so
no matter what the initial ratio is there exist a time t when sheeple raio will far more than free
say sheeple/free = SF
then t = (1/Delta)*ln((SF*Pf(t=0))/Ps(t=0)) sheeple/free will be SF (Delta != 0)
so choose any number for SF and I can give you a time when the ratio will be SF.
xyz lost !!!! xyz lost !!!!! :)
sheeple won!!!!!! sheeple won!!!!! :)
One more thing I talked about sheeple and not kewl.
well kewl can be termed as incompetent free :(
/humer
tmp December 9th, 2003, 06:56 AM

I remember when MTV used to be rock videos. Looks like VH-1 is trying to gain
MTV's earlier audience. Most of what I watch on TV is news or documentaries.
Jackass is one of the most stupid and masochistic shows ever created. I'll never
understand how that type of behavior is considered to be funny or entertaining.
Looks like it may end up being a kewl cult classic.
The Anarch December 9th, 2003, 07:13 PM

I'm not the only person in the world that hates jackass... i can't believe it. I hate it mostly because it goes along with that
fucking sk8er culture. All skaters should burn. Another reason I hate it is because a lot of good friends of mine have gotten
into it, and ever since they've been shitty friends. Jackass portrays a bunch of supposed "friends" fucking with each other,
getting each other stung by bees, shitting/pissing on each others faces while they're asleep, so now my fucking frneds have
started to mimic it. Not to such an extreme degree, but it's still annoying as fuck to get smacked in the head and hearing
some dick laughing.
The fucking jews in charge of tv have been exploiting urban pop culture for a while now. Isn't that how a lot of things are these
days, kikes commanding armies of niggers. The Disney channel is by far the best(or worst) example of this. My little siblings
are constantly watching that stupid bullshit in the living room. Every time I walk downstairs I hear that stupid fucking R&B crap
with 50 more notes in every verse than necessary. Walt Disney is turning in his grave...
ossassin December 9th, 2003, 09:28 PM

I've never actually sat through an episode of Jackass. Don't worry about the dominating black culture; it will disappear in time.
They always do.
YayItGoBoom! December 11th, 2003, 07:40 PM

Its so true...I watched some MTV today because I wanted to see what all the hype about the "Milkshake" song was all about,
and I could feel my brain cells popping with every R&B beat. I mean...how fucking stupid can people get? Well actually I do
know how stupid... Sexual inuendo about milkshakes? Wow... Thrall you're so right about the sheeple formula. Even if the
number of intelligent people grows, the sheeple multiply by a square factor. SOME, as in a very gifted few, a couple episodes
of jackass, and maybe a few skits from CKY, are actually pretty damn funny. But the rest is stupid shit! And that shit gets feed
into the magic TV camera lenses, is converted into EM frequency shit, and is piped through the boobatron directly into peoples
minds.
Here an idea for entertainment, its called Wall! Its simple to use, it only takes muscular coordiation of one movement! You
stand in front of Wall, and bang your head against it! It kills brain cells, and fills your eyes with pretty sparkly shapes. You can
use Wall with friends, with your family, even your dog can experience the enlightening effects of Wall!
Now all I need is some money to market my mass corporate scam...
10fingers December 12th, 2003, 03:39 PM

Jackass is kind of funny sometimes. It's probably one of the best things on MTV. They used to be good 10 or 20 years when
they showed real music. Now all they do is that stupid ghetto nigger shit. Can't stand it.
I think though they play the type of music which sells the most. It's all about money.
tom haggen January 2nd, 2004, 11:49 PM

I like viva la bam. Jackass was ok. though I like to skate and stuff and bam margera is a ripper. so I got a little respect for
him. steveo is funny but those guys get to fucking grose a lot of the time. I do think T.V. brain washes you. but some
educational programs are kinda cool
grant January 3rd, 2004, 12:15 AM

Jackass is ok sometimes but it gets very old quickly. I guess its suppose to be funny to hurt yourself! Yep MTV just sucks now.
stickfigure January 3rd, 2004, 06:28 AM

I just watch TV for the few "educational" channels TLC, Discovery, The History Channel, Nat-Geo Max, Animal Planet, VH-1,
Food Network and of cource the Cartoon Network. They have there own thought leaching drivvle here and there but for the
most part, they at least give me a little culture. Cartoons are obviously pointless but I find a conforting irony in them, at least
I know that they aren't real.
Mostly I look at TV as a device used to tell people they lives aren't as good as they should or could be. TV tells you you're fat,
ugly, not wearing the right clothes, not getting enough sex, and if you are the person you're fucking is obviously a bigger loser
than you are. You're not driving a nice enough car, you're not popular and you house is a dump. All you have to do is work as
a slave in a system that you and your offspring will be forever bound to, no matter how rich or how poor you are. Your whole
life will be a fruitless quest of constantly persuing an image of granduer that will never be. You will die a wasted, poisoned,
diseased, husk of a humanity that was missled from the womb and even as you realize this you will never be able to break
free.
On top of all that is says give up your rights, give up your morals, and don't think for yourself because you're too stupid even
to do that. If there is anything American that I am ashamed of it is Television and Democrates.
Blackhawk January 3rd, 2004, 07:06 AM

I am so sick of watching patriocrap self glorifying american movies that seem to be everywhere now, such as 'The patriot',
'Pearl Harbour' and some shitty made for tv drivel on showtime today called 'The marine and the princess' which ended with a
particularly sickening scene where the poor abused middle eastern princess gone western in a military base in love with a
marine salutes to the rippling US flag saying "This is what I beleive in". What is wrong with the movie industry now, barely
anything is new or original, are they so affraid of anything different that they have to surround themselves in a saftey blanket
of sequels, pre-quels and mindless shit? People will look back to today and think 'what a crap time to go to the movies'
knowledgehungry January 3rd, 2004, 11:31 AM

I'm sick of the liberal slant in media, all the fags on my TV and all the save the enviroment bullshit, I dont watch TV. Movies I
watch but not TV save shows on the educational channels or forensic files etc. Maybe a little Law and Order or CSI now and
then. As soon as i see a commercial I mentally leave I try to pay attention as little as possible.
frogfot January 3rd, 2004, 09:09 PM

Whats that about brain washing?? We're kinda humans and we can filter all the crap that is feed into brain. If some info/news
is exaggerated, one can always compare it with other sources (internet).
Mentioning exaggerated news, like for example when an US convoy was attacked by surprise by 40 irakies and there were no
casualities for US.. all irakies were dead.. buahahahaha
And those commercials.. I can't come up with any commercial that have affected my choice in products.. but maby I'm just to
stubborn :P
Jackass? It is ok for a tv show, come on, you're not suppose to laugh with them or learn something, it can just be fun to watch
how some people can make those stupid things and it's also fun to see reactions from observers.. they had no intention to be
educational..
And, I would rather watch jackass than go to the latest James Bond movie, even if it was for free :)
Blackhawk January 3rd, 2004, 09:34 PM

The problem with jackass is that it is condoning the kind of moronic idiosy that is arse reeming the world, I see far too many
people around where I live that I can't say deserve life. I'm not saying that all stupidity and 'naughty' behaviour in kids stems
from Jackass but it is just another link in the chain that is hanging society, along with such brain cell sucking ideas like 'gansta
culture' rapping or 'sk8 culture'. I don't think kids used to be such demented freaks as they are today, so it must be
something that is recently emerging, and TV really isn't helping to raise the IQ.
Anthony January 4th, 2004, 07:25 AM

James Bond is a classic! And without it, the TV stations would have less stuff to repeat at christmas :)
For example, take Mr Bond and his arch rival tear-arseing around on ice in a new Aston and an XK8. I fully realise that a lot of
FX have gone into it - cars don't land on their roof, barrel roll through 180 degrees and carry on driving. But there was still
skilled drivers driving at high speed in a tightly controlled plan in dangerous conditions. That I will watch and admire, because
it's not something I could do myself.
One of my favourite films is Memento, because it is a brilliantly made film. The person who sat and wrote the script for it was
onto an idea that I couldn't come up with. They also bent their mind around the odd way the film is organised, and made it
run smootly and make sense. Again, not something I could do.
But a lot of Hollywood drivel, I, or most people could do. It's written by idiots with no particular skill, but just happen to be in
the right place, or have the right conections.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Firecrackers
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View Full Version : Firecrackers
syndicate7 Novem ber 1st, 2003, 07:33 AM

I would have put this in the "pyrotechn ics" area but as it is m y first post i thought i would just play it safe.
during my searches in the forum i realised that i couldn't find an y recipes for the m ost classic of all firework s (excep t m a y b e
the skyrocket) firecrackers. as i live in australia anything that bu r n s m u c h f a s t e r t h a n w o o d h a s b e e n b a n n e d , b u t i h a v e f o u n d
a fairly sim ple (thoug h a t a d e x p e n s i v e ) s o u r c e o f B P , m o d e l r o c k e t e n g i n e s . a p a c k o f 3 c - g r a d e e n g i n e s c o s t s a r o u n d A U D
$20. from e a c h o f t h e s e e n g i n e s 3 - 4 c r a c k e r s c a n b e m a d e . o n c e t h e e n g i n e s h a v e b e e n o b t a i n e d a slit must be m a d e
leng thwise and the th ick cardboard tub i n g u n w o u n d t h i s s h o u l d l e a v e a s o l i d m a s s o f B P . t h i s m u s t t h e n b e ground up in a
CLAY mortar and pestle or ball milled.
once you have the powder, a casing for your cracker mu st be m ade. this is done by wrapping a 20 by 5 cm strip of
paperaround a dowel 1cm d i a m eter, a strip of wood glue should hold it together well enough, endcaps should be cut from the
dowel and should be 0.5cm long. one endcap is glued on and a hole for a fuse is cut halfway up the tube, i sim ply use a
c o m m on 8 inch spark ler cit in half as a fuse, th is is then inserted into the hole and the tube is HALF filled with BP, this will
serve to preserve your BP reserves and it also tends to create a louder bang. the other en dcap is then glue d on and left to set
overnight.
Adding the m aterial from one 8 inch sparkler to the mix and tak ing out some BP to ensure that it only fills up halfway will
create som e rather nice sparks to fly o ut.
T_Pyro Novem ber 1st, 2003, 09:22 AM

T h e f u n p a r t a b o u t " h o m e - m ade" fireworks is that well, they're home-m ade. Even if everything you need, to make pyrotechnic
compositions is banned, spending AU D $20 on rocket engines to tear apart and salvage BP does not sound like a g ood idea to
m e. Besides, rockets are more fun tha n plain ol' crackers. There are certain m ate rials required by am ateurs that are exotic
enough to warrant scrounging for , but BP is definitely NO T o n e o f t h e m . : r o l l e y e s :
There are laws everywhere, and everyone finds it difficult to get hold of m aterial. Even sulfur and chlorates are banned here,
a n d I ' m s u r e it's the sam e story in oth er parts of the world too, but that doesn't stop dete rm i n e d - m i n d e d p e o p l e f r o m getting
what they want.
Sorry for the ranting, but the point I'm trying to m ake is don't stoop to such levels as having to recover bp from rocket m otors.
Get som e KNO3, m a k e / g e t s o me charcoal, and m a k e s o m e bp of your own.
Anath Novem ber 1st, 2003, 09:55 AM

Hm m, I don't know about thin gs being banned, I was in buying 100m of green visco fuse today, and with a little social
e n g i n e e r i n g ( i e , n o t l o o k i n g l i k e a c o p a n d k n o wing som ething about the subject.), you can get just about any type of firework.
Throw enough m oney around and they will sell you diplay item s as well :)
I e v e n t h o u g ht about selling Pyro stuff on eBay for aussies, as it's percie ved as b eing so hard to g et. The fireworks shops here
(guess where....) will send anything m ail-order to anywhere in Aus, depending on couriers, all you have to do is pho n e a n d a s k
them. or look at the websites.
http://cadaverine.net/canberra/shops.html#crackers
http://www.in 2fireworks.com /
http://www.actfireworks.com.au/retail.h tm l
$ 2 0 w o u l d h a v e g o t y o u a b o x o f 1 0 0 k 2 0 3 ' s ( d e c e n t 2 " l o n g m atch-cracker m a r o o n s )
the m oral of the story? .. search harde r.
syndicate7 Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 08:52 AM

well, sulfer and charcoal r easy enough to get but my re al problem is the KNO3, i checked withseve ral chem . wholesalers but
the least they sell is 500g for AUD$60 i am going to ask the local high school if i can buy som e s o o n
Anath Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 09:21 AM

for KNO3...
read up a little on Hydroponics, so you know a bit about the subject, Then either go to a Rural Sup ply place, a large Gardening
Shop, or a Hydroponics place, ask for Potassium Nitrate, and say it's for a hydro setup.
Rural supply places will sell yo u 50 or 25kg bags for aro und $1/kg without any fuss,
Gardening joints usually get the 50kg bags and repackage it into 1kg & 5kg bags, and sell it for twice the price..again, no fu ss.
Hydro stores will sell you 1, 5 or 10kg bags relatively cheaply, th ough they m ay quiz you about what you are using it for. Pre tty
funny for a shop that is basically selling item s for growing dope.. Just tell them to shut the fuck up :)
T h o u g h i f y o u m a n a g e to strike up a friendship with the owner of a Hydro store, they can be the m ost useful friends you'll ever
m ake in this business & will order you all mann er of naughty item s.
I've never had to go to C hemSupply, Sigm a or Lomb in Oz, though I'm considering it for some truly hard to get stuff shortly.
A n y o n e g o t a c o m mon source for Strontium for reds?
edited to add..
Attitude is everything. KNO 3 isn't an illegal chem ical, so m arch in like you expect to be sold it without any problems, if they
complain, tell them you've bought it before, wh at's the problem now? it's not illeg al. etc. If you walk in like a scared sch oolkid
they are probably justified in not selling it to you. After all, Your using it for a perfectly legal hydro setup growing orchids arent
you?? ;)
Tuatara Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 5 0 P M
I've said it before, I'll say it again. (great O TC survey)
Strontium C arbonate: potters supply shop
Barium C a r b o n a t e : p o t t e r s s u p p l y s h o p
Antim ony oxide, copper oxide, lithium c a r b o n a t e , m a n g a n e s e o x i d e , s o d i u m silicate, iron oxide, blah, blah , blah, : all from a
potters supply shop!
Prim ary use for these things is in glazes, but they wont bat an eyelid, as they will assume you are a potter, and thats want you
want the stuff for!
Anath Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 6 : 0 4 P M
T h a n k s T u a t a r a , I s h o u l d h a v e b e e n a bit more specific though..
I already have Strontium Carbonate, from the aforem entioned pottery supply... It seem s to make a fairly weak red though, I'd
m uch prefer to try som e Stron tium Nitrate.
Tuatara Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 9 : 0 2 P M
So convert it to the nitrate with nitric acid. Carbonate + acid -> acid salt + C O2 + H2O . You have KNO3, you can m a k e H N O 3 .
Anath Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 12:57 AM

Ahh, I didn't think it was that simple, but there you go.. thanks!, I'll try it out.. :)
blindreeper Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 02:17 AM

I s h o u l d b e c o m p l e t e l y f i n i s h e d m y O TC Austra l i a p d f s o o n s o t h a t s s o m e t h i n g t o l o o k o u t f o r ! S o a n y o z z i e s p l e a s e e m a i l m e
pics to - blindreeper@xmail.net
syndicate7 Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 04:36 AM

m y local high skool agreed to sell m e s o m e o n ce i bullshited m y way through their bunch of questions, btw thanks for the tip
about the hydro and gardening shop, isnt it great that shops still sell the se nice safe chemicals ;)
Cyclonite Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 08:27 AM

Question, wh ats with spelling school "skool"? My little sister does the sam e thing at 14 years old.
0EZ0 Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 08:58 PM

Usually because they think it is a 'kool' way to spell school :rolle yes:.
syndicate7, you should be careful with what you say to your teachers. You most likely have just put yourself on their m e n t a l
'list' of stude nts that need to be watched for malicious behaviour, that is if you were not already on it :rolleyes:.
Also please word your posts in an intelligent m anner. Punctuation is your friend :).
Allowing newbies to find sources of precursors and inform ation themselves is part of the screening process. If they make it
past the first few steps without any loss of enth usiasm, only then can you trust them with any furth er inform ation yo u give to
them. Spoon feeding doesn't help anyone.
syndicate7 Novem ber 5th, 2003, 07:39 AM

Sorry about the spelling of school, anyway the reason I even bothered asking my school is because I am on very good terms
with my chem istry teacher. This guy sh owed us how to m a k e t h e r m ite in year 8! For som e reason i dont think i'm on his m e n t a l
list just yet.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > safety of P2P software
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bobo Novem ber 1st, 2003, 07:11 PM

A little while back, a guy with child porn was caught because he DLed from Kazaa. This got m e wondering if the piggies do th at
kind of thing, are they monito ring the networks for (for exam ple ) Urbanski. Of course, having any book is not illegal but I
wouldn't like to appear on a potential terrorist list.
How would th ey have found out what the paede rast was DLing anyway? Do they put the hot stuff on a m achine that is
m onitored fo r IP traffic on that port?
Rhadon Novem ber 1st, 2003, 07:34 PM

Do they put the hot stuff on a m achine that is m onitored for IP traffic on that port? It's we ll possible that they do it that way. I
can also think of them searching for relevant keywords and having a closer look at the sources of these files. Since your P2P
client (on the m o s t p o p u l a r P 2 P s y s t e m s ) n e e d s t h e I P a d d r e s s o f t h e m achine on the other end identifying you isn 't too hard.
I doubt that som e t h i n g l i k e U r b a n s k i c a n g e t y o u b u s t e d , t h o u g h , b e c a u s e t h a t o ne is already too wide-spread and the
chemistry and technology of e x p l o s i v e s d o e s n ' t h a v e a r e p u t a t i o n a s b a d a s c h i l d porn.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > HE explosions
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McGyver Novem ber 1st, 2003, 10:11 PM

I was woundering why the sound from t h e b l a s t o f a n H E o f a b o u t 1 0 0 g , s e e m s to resonate? Is this due to the shock wave?
vulture Novem ber 2nd, 2003, 10:49 AM

Sound reflection off surfaces which are out of phase with the main blast sound.
McGyver Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 4 : 0 1 P M
Like trees... thx
Hang-Man Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 5 : 0 7 P M
W e s h o u l d m ake a thread for short questions like this that don't m erit a discussion. Set it up so the posts only last for a few
days so it do sn't get huge. som ething of a 'chat room ' thread where quick one lin e answer questions could be answered.
grandyOse Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 6 : 1 5 P M
I like your idea. I enjoy posting oneliners. These should probably not count toward post counts. If I forget m y m a n n e r s a n d
start posting one-line rs, I don 't care if the mod s k n o c k o f f s o m e of m y p oints. If I last long enoug h to becom e a b o t t l e
washer, I don't care if I stay there.
blindreeper Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 02:08 AM

It doesn't m atter if you get the rank of bottle washer, all your posts could be crap and it won't count for anything!
Cyclonite Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 03:06 AM

I rem eber in EOD school they wouldnt let us do very large shots on cloudy day due to the fact the sound reflects off them a n d
could crack windows in the next town (1000lb HE)

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > organic synth via electronics
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grandyOse Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 1 2 : 5 9 P M
pola r molecu les in solution (or gas) will line up with an electric field. Covailent bonds will vibrate in the infrared, different bonds
have different bandwidths. This m uch we know. Now for the hypo thetical; Suppose I want to do a double replacem ent with the
functional groups of 2 different arom atics. If the m olecules are not already sim alarly polor, perhap s I can change one of the m
v i a a s i m p l e c h e m ical procedu re. I put the reacants in a strong solution and apply a strong electric field. Th is lines up the
m olecules with the functional groups to be replaced all facing the sam e direction. Then I blast the solution with the appropriate
wavelength of infrared light to break certain bonds which hold the functional groups to their respective arom atic rings. Som e
a m ount of replaceme nt is bound to ha ppen right? Now, assum ing I am a ble to separate the 4 com pounds from each other, I
s h o u l d h a v e s o m e yield of m y d e s i r e d c o m p o u n d , n o ?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > What has been your worst
accident?
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Lil_Guppy November 2nd, 2003, 08:25 PM

We all have had an accident with various compounds/chemicals, be it a simple burn from a match, to being blinded by a
homemade flashbang, to having large portions of ones body burned or removed. So what is your worst accident, and what kind
of accident (aside from death) would it take for you to give up this interest?
My worst accident so far is when I was about 13 and my father showed me how to make BP. So here I was with around
150grams of really dodgy slow BP and a box of matches. I tipped some onto the ground and lit it, forgetting to remove my
hand that was holding the container with the rest of the BP from the area. Of course a spark had to land in the container and
ignite the remaining BP (around 100g). The burning BP melted the plastic container onto my hand. Quite painful if you ask
me. Since then I learned to respect such things, from simple sparklers, to HE. As for the second question, I would probably
think about giving it up if I really injured someone unintentionally.
Trinitrotoluene November 2nd, 2003, 09:21 PM

Nothing too serious, about a little before a year ago I had nitrocellulose going off on me, as I had about 10 grams of puffy
nitrocellulose cottonballs on the cement, they were all spread out, I was expecting to light one of them, and one of them burn,
but all went off producing a fireball which scorched my arm, I was luckly it was something fast burning, I got away with minor
burns, but still felt the pain.
Other small things that happand are when nitrating DNT into TNT, the DNT was tossed in quickly the nitrating acid splashed
and some HNO3/H2SO4 landed on my hand.
thrall November 2nd, 2003, 10:38 PM

When I was 14 years old I was making a miniature flame thrower using a metal(foil) casing of medicine eye tube (20ml) with
a small nozzle shaped opening filled with gasoline using injection.
A little hole in the bottom and burnt it.It used to be be a nice show but once it droped from the tongs I was holding it with.and
my left ear , left eye,and part of neck were "flamed" with burning gasoline.After that I didn't do "flame thrower" till now.But I
regained my interest in explosives.
I think permanent maiming of mine will make me give up this habit.
grandyOse November 2nd, 2003, 11:36 PM

When I was about 14 (in the days when iron men sailed wooden ships) I used to get "gopher bombs" from the local dept of
agriculture guy. I'd just walk into his office and tell him gophers were eating up my potatoes and he would reach into his lower
drawer and hand me a sack of them. They were about 2 inches in diameter and 3 inches long with a short visco fuse. They
would burn real slow, producing lots of poisonous gas that was supposed to sink into the gopher runs and kill them. I think it
was mostly potassium or sodium nitrate with some kind of solid fuel and something to make the poison. I ground this shit up
and filled a CO2 cartridge and stuck in the visco. I expescted it to be a rocket engine. Well, it went out, so I hastily made a
match head fuse, which also failed to ignite the engine. I eventually wound up lighting match heads right into the opening,
when BAM! I couldn't hear anything for a few hours except a constant ringing. I wasn't cut by shrapnel, or burned. I never
found the cartridge.
At my age, it wouldn't take much of an accident for me to pack it in.
We are talking about pyro, right? I mean, if the subject is open to ANY kind of crazy assed pranks and mistakes, well I could
write a book.
friends don't let friends drive drunk when they are high on halucinogens, throwing fireworks out the window, have a loaded
pistol in the glovebox and a naked girl in the backseat smoking reefer. I thought "Fear and Loathing..." was an instruction
manual.
A-BOMB November 3rd, 2003, 12:12 AM

Well if we are talking about nonpyro related a few years ago I was in the local machine shop to get a receiver drilled and taped
well someone got a 3/8" drill stuck in a pipe and thought a good way to remove it was to hook if up to a blowgun and shoot it
out into a can well he missed the can and put it about 2" into my leg. Then there was one time I was reloading some shells
with my uncle and one of the .32acps that we were reloading went off putting a ball about a .5" into my arm.
blindreeper November 3rd, 2003, 02:13 AM

My worst is probably when I wne t to hospital for Cl2 poisoning; mmm gotta love hospital oxygen...
Well there was that time where I lost my eyebrows, eyelashes and some of my hair because of a very short fused H2 balloon.
The thing that could have ended up the worst was that NC runaway I had a few months back...
Good times! They would have to lock me up to keep me away from this hobby!
Cyclonite November 3rd, 2003, 03:12 AM

This isnt the worst but its kinda funny, the first spud gun I made..about 6 or 7 years ago, well it wouldnt fire once and I took
off the back and sparked it....nothing. Then I looked in to see if it sparked at all. Well it did and ignited the starter fluid and
bam....A nice flame came out and got my head pretty good. I was short eyebrows, lashes and some hair for awhile. Live and
learn.
xyz November 3rd, 2003, 08:11 AM

I have never had a serious accident with any pyro stuff (by serious, I mean requiring medical attention) but I have had
countless small burns and singed hair. I have never had an accident involving a HE because I am always extremely careful
around them.
Skean Dhu November 3rd, 2003, 04:20 PM

when i was thirteen I saw a mole run into a hole in the wall of my garage, and I decided to burn the little bugger out, I took
my dads propane torch and turned it on full blast and stuck it down the hole then waited a few seconds and then clicked an
'Aim n flame' lighter near the nozzle, I then saw a nice swirling fireball come out and engulf my hand. I had minor bunrs and
some skin between the second and third knuckles on my index finger came off.
then sometime last year I was getting rid of an old batch of AP with a freind and I decided to show him the cool fireballs it
made. the second pile was really huge, it was big enough to make the DDT, the ringing stayed for the better parts of 2 days. I
was also struck in the forearm with a splinter from the work bench the pile was sitting on
ahhh, the memories and lapses in thought process.
Hang-Man November 3rd, 2003, 04:56 PM

I'm in the same boat as XYZ, never done anything stupid with explosives. Worst chemistry experience would be when I lit a
b e a k er full of acetone on fire inside, that s what I get for not labeling things properly. Most p ainful would be when I was
cleaning rust off a knife with HCL when I cut myself with the HCL soaked blade. Burned like hell for quite a while.
Wozzles November 3rd, 2003, 05:08 PM

Hmm, i would have to say one of the worst accidents i had due to any type of explosives was ~1 gram or so of pressed AP
going off in my hand on Saturday. We were having partial dets. for most of our charges, and the results would be a tiny bit of
AP going off, having like half the AP just get blown out the casing (straw) and have the other half just be unaffected. After
trying to detonate 10 grams or so underground, only about 1 or 2 grams went off. I took the straw out, and it had about 5
grams left after most the AP was scattered about. I was pouring most of it in a pile and my freind was just lighting it. I was
going to pour out more, then my asshole freind light a match without knowing...the result was the AP going through DDT and
exploding in my hand. Now, my ear just stopped ringing today, and I am thankfull that nothing worse than a throbbing finger
came out of this. Now, I respect my explosives a whole lot more.
0EZ0 November 3rd, 2003, 09:46 PM

Same boat as some of the other guys. Thanks to many precautions and safety measures on the rare occasion that I am
experimenting, I have never had anything more serious than singed hair or ringing ears. Even at those times they were at no
point threatening my own or anybody else's safety in any severe way. Severe meaning any bodily harm more than a scratch,
cut or small burn, chemical or otherwise.
I have always taken precautions so that in the event of an unlikely incident, any damage to nearby property is minimized or
totally avoided in any such case.
I only hope it is the same for most of the other members.

Wozzles, was your AP wet or just REALLY impure? (or are you one of those kewls that make things up?)
It should normally only take 0.25g of detonating AP to blow your hand to shreds. It sounds like your AP was still wet from the
description you gave of the partial detonations. Either that or it didn't manage to make the DDT.

Well I have lost my eyebrow and singed my hair a few times doing pyro stuff, or lighting a BBQ, though I simply managed to
laugh about what happened because I would escape serious injury.
On non pyro related accidentd one quite memorable was I stacked it on my bike: I was going down this really steep hill,
naturally I was trying to go as fast as possible so I managed to get to 40km/h (25miles/h) and was still accelerating when the
unimaginable happened; I hit a wheelie bin by the side of the road. IT WHEELIE HURT :D , I wasn't injured too badly just
grazed elbows and knees. What really broke the ice was when I called my Dad to tell him i'd be late home because I'd stacked
it. The first thing he asked me was; Is the bike alright? :p .
Tuatara November 4th, 2003, 05:14 AM

Funny how so many of us are really careful with chemistry, then get badly mauled by ordinary stuff.
Apart from the exploding hydrogen filled water trap (fuck was that ever stupid) which only made my ears ring for 2 hours, I've
wrapped dads car round a tree (16years ago), almost taken my finger nail off with a spade (aged about 6 ), had a pocket
knife fold onto my finger trying to open can, been taken off my bike at speed by some fuckwit opening his car door, had
numerous soldering iron burns (professional hazard:D ), had several bad electric shocks (another professional hazard) and
tried to cut my finger off with a handsaw last month (pun not intended).
I'd only stop the pyro if I injured my someone in my family. I'd still go to shows though ...

hmm i havent had any accidents that require medical treatment, yet.
but among the more interesting of my accidents are the following.
spilling a cup full of burning enthanol all over myself (christ you should have seen me try to beat myself out)
Gassing myself with NO2 :(
Spilling pyrophoric H2SO4/Mn2O7 up my arm
almost getting my face burnt off when a beaker full of H2SO4/Mn2O7 decided to violently decompose and shower 98% H2SO4
and Mn2O7 everywhere.
apart from that i've had no really harmful accidents.
Pyroboy November 4th, 2003, 10:44 AM

Worst for me has been a good handful size of meal powder igniting right under my leg. It was between a piece of folded
paper. I placed it under my leg while I was sitting on some steps so it wouldn't blow away in the wind. I was trying to test the
burn rate of the meal and somehow a spark must have found it's way in. It was a stupid mistake and only happened because
I got careless. I received 1st and 2nd degree burns and even a week later I could still see flesh. :( not cool and extremely
painful.

It now seems we are trying to out do each other in bad accidents. Maybe we all have some form of jackass in us after all
:rolleyes: .
Well just recently I was trying to make some sodium sulphide by reacting NaOH solution and S together in a small crucible. I
seemed to be making some progress . So I added a small amount of HCl to the solution to find out if it'd evolve H2S gas
however I made one really bad mistake - I forgot to let the mixture cool.
So I stupidly do this while the solution is boiling hot. The solution starts spitting and unreacted Sulphur is spewed out all over
the place. Though I wasn't so stupid as to not wear safety glasses. I end up with sulphur all over my leavers jumper though
the majority of the sulphur ended up of the walls, which I had to clean up.
Now my leavers jumper smells like a volcano and I am only just starting to get the smell out after about 5 washes. Well
atleast I now have a jumper that has natural insect (and chick :( ) repellant.
Moral of the story; always let the solution cool first.
Wozzles November 4th, 2003, 05:29 PM

xyz, my AP was dry. I made it on a wednesday i think, filtered it last thursday, and i was using a little bit in my backyard on
Halloween. Everything was working fine. The next day is when it went to shit. The AP was all dry when I was making my
charges. I don't think it was contaminated at all, it was all white and just had the normal AP smell to it. I just still have no idea
why I wasn;t getting full dets, and thankfully, when it was DDT'ing in my hand, i was going to drop it so it wasn't directly
touching when it went off. But it was still close enough...
mongo blongo November 4th, 2003, 06:42 PM

A few years ago I almost got my ear drums perforated when a HE mortar shell got stuck in the tube and fell out to the side
instead of being shot up high into the sky where it was supposed to detonate at a safe distance. It detonated about 15m from
where my friend and myself were standing. I think it had a few g of RDX and PbN3 in it. I couldn't hear fuck all for a few hours.
I remember the night before that, we didn't have enough HE to fill up all the mortar shells I made before hand. Instead we
wrote numerous insults onto the blank shells and distributed them via mortar into neighboring gardens for people to find.:D
We found that highly amusing:D
syndicate7 November 5th, 2003, 05:47 AM

well this didnt happen to me but a friend of mine, well we were making a potato cannon (stupid idea really) and we had it all
put together then we sprayed the botton with deoderant, shoved the spud in and the stupid thing wouldnt light. my dickhead
of a friend decided it would be agood idea to try lighting it with a match:rolleyes: . he then found the thing wouldnt light just
by throwing a match down the end so, as i retreated to a safe distance, he proceede to light the match then stick his arm down
the tube in an effort to light it. he lit the deoderant alright, the spud didnt move (luckily) and , ashe had his head over the
mouth of the cannon, a flame shot out and burned his eyebrows righ off his face. we have decided to postpone any more spud
cannons untill further notice.

I know it's a bit OT...
Flake2m, What ratios did you use for that Na2S Synth? What temperature did you have to heat it to?
I have been trying to find a synth for a metal sulfide (a synth that doesn't involve metal powders) for ages.
pdb November 5th, 2003, 12:23 PM

I have to say that I had a severe accident, years ago, at the age of 15, while making 8ml (i.e. 12gr) of NG. Difficult to know
what happened exactly; most likely, there has been a kind of "hot spot" developping somewhere in the solution, after most of
NG had formed, and it just exploded between my hands.
I lost one hand and one eye, and had my leg opened on 30cm. I stayed three months at the hospital, and then resumed my
works...
Since then, I have made NG by preparing first two acidic solutions (H2SO4+glycerin and H2SO4+HNO3) that I cool, and then
mix together. This way, most of the heat is generated and evacuated before HNO3 and glycerin enter into contact. The only
drawback of this method is that NG stays longer in contact with the acids, which is said in the literature to statiscally raise the
risk... In fact, most of NG appears in one hour, which does not make such a difference with the traditionnal glycerin-dropping
method.
However, I haven't made NG for years now, and do not intend to make some soon.
I had a very rich life so far in terms of pyro & HE stories, quite enough to write a little book ! My accident is the only dull story,
all the other ones would be actually quite funny !!
blindreeper November 5th, 2003, 05:39 PM

xyz, I have done the Na2S synthesis using 5g NaOH, 5g S and 1ml of distilled water. Heat this in a beaker and it will turn red.
There is your sulfide

I've been lucky, never had any blood drawn, eyes burned or anysuch nonsense. I don't understand how people manage to
hurt themselves, my guess is Kewl mentality. I have also never broken a bone in my body. I believe someone broke my nose
but im not 100% sure. I got my fingers bruised when i lit about .25 g of AP with a match, expected deflagralation not
detonation.
Cricket November 5th, 2003, 06:44 PM

When I first got to making AP, I had no fuse. So I would sprinkle a bit over the stove and watch it pop and crackle. Or I had a
steel pipe about 3/8" ID that I would scoop up a small bit with and light with my lighter and it would explode without any
shrapnel. I did this a couple hours a day when I was bored. One day I lost my pipe in the couch. So I got a straw and decided
it would work at least one time. I was taking a crap and lighting AP in a straw and then I put just a hair too much and it
shreaded the end of the straw into small long pieces. Unfortunatly one of these pieces folded in half and went into my finger.
More unfortunatly, one hit me in the nuts. It didn't bleed or nothin, just some stinging. It was funny. That, aside from some
Chlorine gas, is my worst accident I think. I concider myself lucky. Lesson learned, don't shit and play with HE's.
THErAPIST November 6th, 2003, 01:15 AM

Lets see here... Ive had extremely hot HCL/ acetone/ peroxide in my eyes before because of a run away when synthesising
AP. addH2O2 too fast and fumes and the like started shooting out of the bottle so i went to run outside. the wind was blowing
towards the door when I opened it and got a face full of vapor. I couldnt see for about 2 hours... I washed my eyes with water
about every 2 minutes for an hour.
I've always gotten a cick out of lighting VERY small piles (.10g) of AP in my hand to confuse people (where the hell did that
fireball come from?!). I put a little much in my hand before (about .40g) and got my arm hair singed off
small burns here and there... 10g pile of unconfined flash blinding me because a spark jumped from the end of the fuse to
about the middle and got the pile much faster than i was expecting...
That's about it. I Try to stay pretty safe now a day... Hell I havent made anything at all in the last 3 months or so... besides
one to-scale ashcan which I made because my friend begged me to make one

@xyz
I tried several methods to make metal sulphides.The first one was that I just added a few spoonfuls of sulphur and some
metal filings together and then heated them up in a crucible. This worked - sorta
The other method which I had tried during the stuff up was by reacting NaOH and sulphur to get Na2S and water. I never found
out if that worked though because the solution ended up everywhere.
Oh and never use sparklers as fuse to ignite exposed AP, the delay will be about 2sec because the sparks will ignite the AP
and if your lucky you'll walk away with deaf ears.
Unknown November 6th, 2003, 02:06 AM

This one is pretty funny, after the fact, and happened about 8 months ago. I was making these "poppers" in my dad's living
room on a low table in front of the couch. The poppers are similar to torpedoes, except I use HMTD instead of armstrong's
mix. I take some tissue paper and form a cup with my index finger to put the HMTD into. I then put some small aquarium
gravel on top of the HMTD. The final step is folding the tissue around the powder/gravel mix to form a tear drop shape,
twisting the "tail", and smearing some elmers (craft) glue around the outside to hold it together.
Well, this is where it should have ended. Sitting on both sides of me was my dad and my nephew, each about 2 meters away.
I got this great idea to trim some of the tail off the "popper" because it might not detonate if it landed on the tail. When I cut
the tail there was this huge explosion and flash (I forgot to mention that I added some flash powder to this one around the
outside with another wrapping of tissue paper). If you guys havn't made these things before, let me tell you, they are as loud
as a 12 gauge shotgun and this was inside the house. My dad and nephew lept dove for cover, and the dog left the damn
state! Luckily, the only thing that happened to me was that one of the pieces of gravel nicked my finger and caused it to bleed
a little. Needles to say, I now leave the damn tails on those little bastards!
0EZ0 November 6th, 2003, 03:07 AM

xyz, I assume you are after the polysulfides of Na and K. Much discussion has been had on the topic of polysulfides and their
subsequent use in yellow and fulminating powder.
Na2CO3 and K2CO3 can both be heated with sulfur to produce polysulfides. Water tends to decompose polysulfides, so
reactions of sulfur and metal hydroxides are less favoured.
http://www.roguesci.org/archive/200_6-27.html
(Edit: Sorry xyz, my bad. Theoretically by changing the reactant ratios used in polysulfide production, you can end up with just
metal sulfides. During the bonding of the sulfur with the metal derivative (a carbonate or hydroxide in this case) and the
subsequent release of CO2 or H2O you can see that as more sulfur ions attatch to the metal, the colour changes. Without the
excess of sulfur, it is possible to halt the reaction just at the sulfide.
Another route to sulfides is passing H2S over the metal(powder would be better for surface area, but coarser particles should
still work). It is also possible to make magnesium sulfide by passing SO2 over the metal to obtain it along with MgO. You
could even try a single replacement reaction with a sulfide and a more reactive metal.
Do you have absolutely no access to metal powders?
/Edit)
Back on topic.
It really does not surprise me that so many people have had accidents that have in some way been harmful to their body.
Most could easily have been avoided with a little common sense (ironically not all that common:D) and a little more knowledge
on the materials that they were playing with. But there are always those accidents that are very hard to avoid and those are
the ones you have to keep a constant eye out for.
Safety is one of those topics that someone can preach to you all day about. But it really does come down to your own
mentality and awareness of the real risks. Unfortunately the only way most people learn is through first hand experience. Be
prepared as you can for the dangers so that in the event of something nasty happening, the worst can be avoided.

0EZ0, No, I am after sulfides, not polysulfides.
nitric63 November 6th, 2003, 09:47 PM

Never had any accidents that resulted in injury. I have however once spilled burning alcohol
all over the desk in my room once. Also had a PGDN runaway that ignited with a 2ft high
jet of fire that lasted for about a second come out of the beaker as it ran away.

Back when I was much younger-
Had a small (less than 1/4 g.) ammount of red explosive go off while carrying it. Broke a bone in my index finger and needed
6 stitches. Half a gram and I'd have been short a finger.
Had a 13 gallon garbage bag of acetylene/O2 go off about 4' away, broke both eardrums and had a lot of bruising, first
degree burns on exposed skin and bleeding from the sinuses.
Both times I'd had a drink or two and decided to play with explosives. Don't.
"It is essential that persons having explosive substances under their

charge should never lose sight of the conviction that, from the facts and
general truths which have just been stated, preventive measures should
always be prescribed on the hypothesis of an explosion."

I was demoing an actylene bottle bomb to my cousins. I had done lots of plastic bottles, which burn like a big flare when the
top melts enough to let the pressure out, but I decided to try to make it go bang!
Alas, glass bottles don't take pressure so well as plastic ones, and the caps fail. In my case, with an upside-down Lucosade
bottle, it projected the bottle past my face at very high speed, soaking me with reactant. I was leaning over it, trying to light
the damned matches at the time.
I stood up, white from the Calcium whatever-it-was, walked back to my cousins, who were about twenty feet away, and said,
"Whoops! guess that's that, then." They asked what happened, and then, about twenty yards behind them, the bottle,
presumably still intact, crashed down through a tree! It was at this point that I realised I had nearly lost my head to a glass
bottle! It was, in retrospect, a damned fool thing to do, and I was also lucky that the match didn't light! Haven't done one
since, and the tin of Calcium Carbide is still in the chemicals box, some ten years later!
Another time, with some Sodium metal bought from a chemical supply house (on a fake letter head) a friend of mine got a
neat little chemical burn on his neck after he decided to spit on the metal AFTER it had been "sensitised" by me. It exploded,
hitting me with little tiny bits of burning soduim metal, and a big chunk hit him. I guess it was still burning, cos he screamed a
lot. He must have, as I was already 50 yards away, heading for the hosepipe. Yes, don't add water to sodium metal, but the
reaction product of neat NaOH would burn you just as badly, so I was gone! By the time he got to the hose, it had burned a
1cm pockmark into his neck! He took my warnings a little more seriously after that!
And, last night, at the Bonfire party at my parent's and their neighbours house, we set off a load of fireworks (but they were
really crap! Cheap store-bought stuff mostly...) and one of them, a multi-shot cake, flipped over and shot itself all over ther
area my dad and I were lighting the stuff in. Could have been nasty, but it was cool. It was only the third firework, too! The
second one like that, much later, fired most of them, then flipped over, fired one almost straight at my mom, stood back up,
and fired the last two upwards again! Absolutely incredible! Went about ten feet past her and the truck where we had been
keeping the fireworks covered, and exploded in the field! I haven't ever seen anything that weird in a while...
spydamonkee November 14th, 2003, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Cyclonite
This isnt the worst but its kinda funny, the first spud gun I made..about 6 or 7 years ago, well it wouldnt fire once and I took
off the back and sparked it....nothing. Then I looked in to see if it sparked at all. Well it did and ignited the starter fluid and
bam....A nice flame came out and got my head pretty good. I was short eyebrows, lashes and some hair for awhile. Live and
learn.
hehehe the same thing happened to me many years ago, we also used starter fluid as our propellant.
The only other pyro related injury I've had is a slice to the finger trying to snap some steel wool with bare hands :-( with
everything else im pretty bloody carefull
Mick November 15th, 2003, 01:08 AM

worst accident would be 200g of AP going off on my workbench. the really really bad "OMFG!" part about it was not the 200g of
AP, but the 3kg's of APAN right next to it that didn't go off(how in fuck i will never know)
got pretty chewed up from that....bits of plastic tuppaware container stuck in me everywhere, still got a small piece stuck in my
face, at the side of my eye.
my second worst accident was a spud gun that jammed, and blew up, cutting my thumb off. (got it rejoined..yay!)
downside is, i am as deaf as a doorpost now...

Sweet Jesus. What does anyone outside of Palestine need 200g of AP for?
Feel for the hearing damage, my eardrums took several months to re-close and I have some permanent loss.

Bert how many palestine's do you know? That was pretty un-nesseccary raceist remark. Like people say muslims are evil and
all but how many do you know? I have found they are very nice people personally :)
Tuatara November 15th, 2003, 02:41 AM

I wouldn't consider it a racist remark. Looks more like a political commentary on the number of suicide bombings in the area.
Chade November 15th, 2003, 10:18 AM

I've never had a serious accident, but countless near misses. I've had the workbench in front of me burst into flames many
times. The most recent (and one of the stupidest) was condensing iodine. I was boiling iodine tincture under a small dish full
of ice, and I thought it's be a good idea to take some butane gas from a lighter refill, pour it into the dish instead, and let it
sit there boiling at just under 0 degrees C. Obviously the boiling butane vapours poured over the side, into the path of the
flame, and whoomph! One table flambe. Just what I deserve for leaving butane anywhere near a naked flame.
Oh, and I prety much agree that Bert was talking about Palestine being a veritable war zone. If I was there, palestinian or not,
I'd want all the ordnance I could get.

blindreeper-
I know several palestinians. Like people everywhere, they come good, bad and indifferent. I don't have any issues with them,
or with muslims in general. As far as I know, they're not a "race", BTW. But the politics in the middle east HAVE left them with
a well documented history of using substantial quantities of AP. If you wish to discuss this further, let's take it to e-mail as it
has little to do with this thread.
tingtao November 15th, 2003, 10:21 PM

Wow, what a nice thread.
Very interesting reading everyone's differing experiences.
Mine is not that severe.

When I was a naive youngster around 14, there was the infamous Christmas tree light bulb detonator. Two bare wires got
knocked together and the damn thing went off.
I was in a small room in the basement and my ears rang for at least an hour after. I managed to get small pieces of glass
lodged in my face and hands, they were bleeding obviously. Gratefully small enough incisions to be able to stop the bleeding
myself. Didn't want anyone to know.
I suppose it had its blessings because from then on, my respect for weapons and explosives has been built extremely high.
Thankfully it was only a whipping!
Let these testimonies be a lesson for any youngsters out there happen to be reading, to wait till they'rer older! This field is
extremely dangerous as we all know and is only for educated, mature adults!

@tingtao, there are plenty of forum member who are not "adults" yet. I am only 15 myself but have always been very careful
around explosives and have not had any serious injuries despite the fact that I have been very involved in E&W.
There are also plenty of other forum members under 18 that make valuable contributions to this forum and can handle E&W
safely.
tingtao November 16th, 2003, 02:53 AM

xyz,
Sorry. You're right.
I failed to acknowledge the matured, educated, responsible youths.
Didn't mean to offend. Was just trying to caution the other groups of youths.
Please accept my apologies.
Mick November 16th, 2003, 05:27 PM

Sweet Jesus. What does anyone outside of Palestine need 200g of AP for?
Feel for the hearing damage, my eardrums took several months to re-close and I have some permanent loss.
i forget why i had that much AP....not surprising really, considering it blew me across the room.
i think i was going to make 3kg APAN with a 100g AP det and 3kg of ANFO with a 500g APAN det.
i remember everything about that moment, the moments leading up to it, and after it - except why i had made such a large
amount.
PyroNitrate November 16th, 2003, 06:33 PM

I was 14 years old experimenting with various flash powders.. me and my friend had an idea to make a HUGE explosion by
placeing a boulder ontop of almost 400 grams of flash powder. We had everything setup and i had 2 aligator clips i went to
connect them onto a whire.. what i wasent aware of was that my friend had already plugged it in When i connected the aligator
clips BOOM.. It destroyed the boulder sending fragmenting large chunks of rocks into my face arms and litterly every part of
my body.. From this day i have respected my explosives with great care.
I lost one of my hands during this and vision out of my left eye and ear.

No one would invent an accident that they didn't have, would they?
Just wondering...

Exactly my thinking Bert.
PyroNitrate; you type suprisingly accurate for a one armed man!

I lost one of my hands during this and vision out of my left eye and ear.
You lost vision out of your left ear? Sorry, just couldnt resist. :D

"I lost one of my hands during this and vision out of my left eye and ear."
Wow you could see out your left ear! :O can you still see out your right or did the explosion damage that as well :P
Wow we said the same thing at the same time ! You beat me though...

Yeah, the "ear vision" thing got me going too- But the thing that made me somewhat doubtful is the claim that a flash charge
placed under a rock SHATTERED the rock. Lifted, yes... But unless he drilled the rock for the charge, that's all flash would likely
do. On the other hand, the "connected the firing system to the device not knowing my buddy had allready hooked up the
power" is a classic accident scenario that's killed PLENTY of blasters who didn't bother to use a system requiring two positive
steps to fire.
pdb November 17th, 2003, 11:25 AM

If PyroNitrate says the truth, he would strangely ressemble me: same hand, same eye. I became naturally deaf for a few
days, but I did recover 90% of my hearing capabilities since.

Originally posted by blindreeper
PyroNitrate; you type suprisingly accurate for a one armed man!
I have typed with one hand on a few occasions, as I'm sure most internet users have *cough PORN!*

Anthony,
Cough porn?
Is this another of these sick things that turns up in my email, or is it your private fetish?
:p

Its nothing to joke about.. so please dont.
The reason i have lost sight in that side of my face because it was half turned away from the blast. No more wise cracks
please.. this was asked for everyone to share there accidents. And you don't see me ridiculing yours.

Get used to Anthony because you can't do anything about him.
He was actually sticking up for you in a humourous way and wasn't trying to make fun of you.
John Ashcroft November 20th, 2003, 11:23 AM

400g of flash under a boulder: just think about it. Of course it's going to shatter!

400g of flash under a boulder: just think about it. Of course it's going to shatter!
"Flash" and "boulder" both cover a large range of possible make ups and physical properties. There's no "of course" here.
Chlorate/Sulfur/Mg under a sandstone or shale boulder = shatter (maybe!).
Perchlorate/paint grade bright aluminum under a nice solid piece of granite = lifted boulder in one piece (probably!).
The average kewl is making 70:30 perchlorate/Aluminum flash, maybe with some Sulfur. Not especialy high speed, 400g
under an average rock is going to just lift any but the softest rocks. If you want to debate, go try it out, then report your
parameters and your results...
Flash is more destructive and lower critical weight than BP. But it isn't HE, or magic or anything-

Actually what would most likely make the rock shatter is water absorbed inside the rock being rapidly heated. Throw a rock
from a river in a camp fire and you've got shattered rock flying at you.

Considering the very short dwell time and the high thermal mass of a large rock, I don't think thge boulder would be
significantly heated. IMO.
It's true, I was defending him, by pointing out that a person with one hand could type adequately, even without any practice.

Anthony there should have been no reason to have to defend me. But my thanks.
And for the sake of the moment i did find your comment pretty halarious.

Please don't start the whole "Does flash detonate or not?" argument again...
snooib November 22nd, 2003, 02:26 PM

Back in the day starting out pyro compositions mainly for rockets, i'd been melting small amounts of potassium nitrate\Sugar
(in a can above a small Burner) making small rocket motors.
a group of mates came around and thought. shit how about making about 2 kgs of the stuff and lighting it in the backyard so
i decided why not it should be fun.
well i found a a large bulk jam tin mixed the stuff in and put it over the flame
now im stirring the stuff, no protection, when there is this fiZZZ i look in to see whats happening and whooooosh, no face, no
hair, burnt stirring arm. the lucky thing is i wear glasses or i guess would have been no eyes.
throughthe years i learnt respect for chemistry and practise as safe as i can handeling
can say after about 4 months fully healed with no scars.
Ill be doing this stuff till i Die
steyr November 22nd, 2003, 04:21 PM

i never had any big accident using he or fireworks. there was little accident when i was making smoke powder. when it was
burning, it blew up and part of burning powder (when it was burning, it was hardening and molting) fell at my hand. the red dot
from it last about half year.
some of my own fireworks blew up in my hand making me stunned and blind for a moment. i think that's all
Sparky November 22nd, 2003, 06:03 PM

OK, here are some accidents. They're not as spectacular as some of the others here:
I twice had small magesium fires in my workshop when I was grinding up a firestarter magnesium block. Both times didn't
remove the flint from the bottom of the firestarter, rather I just tried to avoid hitting it with my hacksaw. I don't use this source
of magnesium any more but after this I found it is really easy to pop off the flint from the back of the firestarter. No damage
was done but it sure was a strange experience. Instead of burning with a normal white light the magnesium kind of
smouldered. It was sitting on a piece of wood which really carbonized but didn't burn because the magnesium was stealing all
the oxygen. Instead small black pieces of carbon spread up then around my workshop. There was nothing to be done except
move it outside and wait for it to burn out. I think even spraying it with the powder fire extinguisher on hand would have just
spread the magnesium particles and make them burn much faster.
One time one of my friends came over and we were sitting around outside when he decided to light the corner of this big
cardboard box on fire, then blow it out. I told him to make sure it was out but he said it was fine :rolleyes:. We left to go do
something and came back about 10 minutes later and the box was burning quite well. The box was next to the dry woodpile
which was leaning against my house :eek: . It was way too big to stomp out so we scrambled and put it out with the garden
hose.
Not really an accident but still a mishap is when one time my friend made some det caps out of HMTD and didn't have any
sand to transport them in, so he filled a steel pot with dirt and put them in there and fitted on the lid loosely. What he didn't
think of is that the dirt was damp. The fuses all got damaged because of the humidity. The looked "mottled" which he found
to be strange but hoped they would work anyways. After trying one it was found that they would burn, then hang for a long
time then burn a bit more...
The same friend had a mishap the first time he made HMTD. After making it he didn't really have anything to do with it so he
decided to just burn it off (it was only a few grams). He poured it out on a piece of paper and put in a piece of touch paper. He
was foolishly using a cigarette lighter to light the touch paper and a spark from the lighter hit the HMTD. What's more is that
he was pretty much leaning over the HMTD while lighting it. In an instant all he saw was orange. After realizing what had
happened he checked all his fingers and found that no damage was done. He was surprised at how little the HMTD even
warmed his hand.
Again the same guy (ya, he's a moron sometimes ;)) hand an accident which is rather common. He was making fulminating
powder and decided to melt about 1/8th of a teaspoon and let it explode (in a spoon) while melted. Suffice to say his hearing
was rather screwed up for the rest of the day and into the next.
McGyver November 22nd, 2003, 07:44 PM

Well lets just say that if you overload your potato gun with hair spray and fire the potato, dont assume that all of the vapor
has burned. I set the gun upright once i fired it and as my friends were talking pressed the button to make that click,(i use a
taser for the gun) nothing seroius but some of the hair on my head burned.
Stormhelm November 24th, 2003, 06:16 AM

My accidents are more linked to my adventures in chemistry, since I'm VERY careful around explosives.
I remember the first time I made Cl2, by mixing bleach and ammonia. I remember I got disappointed, because of the
modest amount of gas evolving, so I poured the crap into the bathtub. Suddenly, a wave of chlorine hit me, sending me
running for air. Prolly was around 12 years old at the time. Fondly remember the first time i prepared NO2. That time I got
VERY surprised of the amount of gas evolved. Large volumes of the vile, brown stuff, floating towards my neighbours houses.
Inhaled quite a bit, and was scared shitless of pulmonary edema. Still here though :)
Managed to spray HCl over my entire backyard once. Was preparing H2, and the reaction got a bit outta hand...
TheExecutioner November 29th, 2003, 05:55 PM

Stormhelm:: i know exactly how you felt buddy, in science Labs i always used to go a bit further than what the teachers used
to tell me to do me being the class comic and all, thought it would be a good idea to Add Lots of Sodium Chloride to the
Electrolysis Experiment and rack up the voltage on the Power pack, not only doing this but i was very curious as to see what
that gas smelt like building up inside that vile........!!
Damn the smell is undescribable and i was just smacked off my senses not to mention that Nasty headache! Never sniff that
stuff!
Jacks Complete December 3rd, 2003, 08:57 PM

I just remembered a really dumb one.
I was making Red & White (?) propellant, in the kitchen. I couldn't get it to dry, even after a week, so mom was telling me to
get rid of it, etc. So I turned the electric griddle thing on, and it started to dry quite nicely.
Suddenly, a whoosh sound, and the damned stuff starts burning, from one corner, all the way across. Not too much flame, but
the smoke! By the time I got the two yards to it, it had really got going. Eventually it reached a wet bit, and went out, but I lost
most of it. There was just a little left, marking out the dampest bits. I just binned the rest in disgust, as if that was how it
burned, it wasn't worth it! So much smoke...
Bert December 3rd, 2003, 09:54 PM

I was making Red & White (?) propellant, in the kitchen.
Never heard of that name- What's in it???
telecard December 4th, 2003, 03:04 AM

My worst accident was about a tenth of a gram ot ap going off between my fingers (right index and thumb) Lost about a
centimeter from each.it got caught between my fingers and i guess friction or something set it off. Sat in hospital for a week
after with ringing ears(DUmB F**K am I).
Besides acid burns that left rather large scars (about 5cm long) nothing much else has realy happened, helps you appreciate
the power of explosives though.

AFAIK:
White Propellant: Potassium nitrate + sugar
Red Propellant: Potassium nitrate + sugar + iron oxide
T_Pyro December 6th, 2003, 02:45 AM

Kinda OT, but...
What is the purpose of adding the iron oxide to the "red propellant"?
arm December 6th, 2003, 06:15 AM

Its the iron oxide that makes it red (if its red iron oxide that you're using). The iron oxide acts as a burn rate catalyst and
increases the thrust of your rocket.
Ammonal December 7th, 2003, 09:34 AM
I just found this thread and after reading it I thought I might add an experience from two days ago. I packed a .308 Norma
Magnum shell with AP, inserted a homemade blackpowder/masking tape fuse and then placed the thing into a hole in the
ground. I use a little butane blowtorch thing for lighting fuses and the like, unfortunately the flame hit the AP before the fuse
and well you know BANG.
I guess my head was about a half meter from the shell when it went off and next thing I have a sored forehead above my left
eye and a really sore and numb right hand. I looked at my hand and it had all these spots of blood coming from various
holes and then I touched my forehead and found a sharp bit of brass embedded into the flesh. I think I lost a lot of hearing
in that incident, but that was my first big thing with AP so now I make HMTD ;)
All in all I removed 7 pieces of brass from my right hand (one was touching the bone and nearly sent me through the ceiling
when I touched it with tweesers) and one piece from above my eye, that and all the embedded bits of dirt that is stuck in the
skin of my right hand that are just too small to cut my hand up to remove each little speck.
That was the last time I used a empty cartridge for a det or anything to do with emplosives, which looking back was really
stupid- but it did make a crater the size of a large coffee mug :D
Mike76251 January 3rd, 2004, 06:52 AM

Here's a strange one,
Shot a piece of steel laying 100 meters away (at a 45 degree angle) with a 7.62 NATO round and the bullet came straight back
and hit my arm just below my watch.
No real damage except a little hole but it does prove that bullets can do some strange things.
On a lighter note,
That same day I shot a large phone book with a little 9mm round and blew out 4/5ths of it.
That little round MIGHT have had the hollow point enlarged and a little black powder inserted in the hole and a small pistol
primer inserted in the nose. One might crimp the copper nose over the primer to hold it in.
tom haggen January 4th, 2004, 11:15 PM

I to have had countless minor accidents. Never any requiring medical attention. To name one; I let off the loudest dry ice 2
liter bomb I have ever made in this guys bathroom. It was taking for ever to go off so I went in to check on it. when I went
back into the bathroom it exploded. causing minor hearing damage. but my ears still work. I've had a few accidents where the
fuse went out half way down. so I had to go re-light a very small fuse. I would quit if I ever lost any fingers, or my sight. or
anything worse than that.
SafetyLast January 5th, 2004, 04:24 AM

I havent posted here in quite a while, but I still read a lot and lurk at this forum.
Here's my story (don't read if you're eating)
Like a few other people here, I have had an accident with AP.
I had a pretty bad accident last Sunday night when I was making a 1/2 gram AP cracker from a
wide McDonalds straw. I was lightly packing them with a dowel rod (yes, stupid I know) I should have made some sort of
remote loading press instead of just pushing a dowel rod into the thing.
I have been working with AP for about 4 years and I have been very careful with it and I usually never packed it, just lightly
tapped it into the container.
Im not sure exactly what caused the detonation, it was probably static or a large crystal, as I wasn't putting that much force
into it.
When it went off I was holding it between the thumb and forefinger of my left hand. At first I didn't know what had happened,
then I looked at my hand.
The bones were visible and the flesh on the tips of my fingers was hanging off. I screamed a couple times and stared in utter
disbelief at the mangled digits.
The pain was actually less than you would think, I believe I was in a little bit of shock.
The worst part was actually the blood and tiny bits of skin that covered the walls of my room and the front of my body from
head to toe. Little droplets of blood that ruined a lot of my notebooks.
My parents cleaned up the room the next day and said they found a couple big pieces of skin and bone as well as both of my
fingernails.
I was pretty coherent and got a towel to wrap around my hand and woke my dad up so he could drive me to the hospital. (the
guy was 30 feet away and suprisingly didnt hear the loud bang, deep sleeper huh?) When we got to the hospital I told the lady
at the front desk that I was cutting open a 12 gauge shell when it exploded, they bought it.
The doctor amputated a small bit of the bone and stitched the fingers back together. I lost up to the middle knuckle on both
fingers. The middle finger sustained minimal injury. I spent 18 hours in the hospital and the whole week after that in a drug
induced stupor from Percocet. My ears rang for 4 hours after the accident and I think my glasses saved my vision. (my face
was covered with small cuts)
PDB, PyroNitrate, and Mick, your accidents seem fairly serious, I'm suprised you continue this hobby.
I think that I will either take a break for a couple years or just give up the Pyro/HE thing altogether. seeing that much of your
own blood sprayed around your room does things to you,
makes you worry that if you keep it up, the next accident will be a lot worse.
I must go to bed now, I have a physical therapy session tomorrow. I'll try to get a picture of my stubs if anyone wants to see
them.
xyz January 5th, 2004, 09:48 AM

OK, I am DEFINITELY making a remote pressing device now. I would be glad that it was your left hand and not your right
(assuming you are right handed).
It is very unfortunate, but shit happens and it can happen to anyone :( .

I will also add a little "sort of accident" that I had. I made a small BP cannon (yes, I have several of these) out of some
10mm copper gas pipe. It was electrically ignited and about 30cm long and due to the weakness of the pipe, I did not make it
for the purpose of firing projectiles.
Anyway, I put in a teaspoon of my crappy sugar propellant (65/35 KNO3/Icing Sugar with the KNO3 having been put through a
coffee grinder) and set the cannon up on some bricks just outside the garage. When I pressed the button I expected a small
bang and the cannon to slide backwards 30cm or so. Instead, there was an extremely loud bang and the cannon flew
backwards about 6 metres. My ears were ringing for about 15 minutes and there were lots of dogs barking.
Chade January 20th, 2004, 10:47 AM

A spectacularly stupid manouvre performed by me recently. Whilst not paying attention, and sat at my desk, I went to pick up
my glass of coke, but (and I am amazing even myself with my stupidity here) I absent mindedly picked up and drank from
the container next to it.
What was in it? Freshly made AP dissolved in acetone.

I keep some activated charcoal around as an all-purpose antidote, so I took that, to be on the safe side. I haven't suffered
any after effects, miraculously, but still.
You may commence ridiculing now.
daysleeper January 20th, 2004, 11:21 AM

Mine has nothing to do with chemicals but is still relavent I guess. Once I was taking a project out for testing, it was a m11
9mm close bolt comversion to full I had designed. Well the safety I was using was in a box of parts, and the safety I put back
in the unit had been altered for a previous project,anyhow on my way outside, I placed the safety on, and pointed the unit at
the floor and squeezed the trigger to insure it worked, well it did not, and I got 5 bullett holes in my kitchen for that stupid
mistake, from the floor to the ceiling and even one out my window and through my cabinets, scared the shit out of me and my
poor dogs. It was a hard lessoned learned for sure.
Jome skanish January 20th, 2004, 06:34 PM

I used to make crappy Zn+S "flash" by mixing home made Zn-shavings with sulfur. The mix burned slowly, more slow than BP
(burning for like 4 secs), but it gave a bright light pretty white cloud and I thought that was it. I used to put a pile on a small
2*2cm pile of paper, and light it by match.
One day I ordered 2,5-micron zinc powder from a online webshop. I mixed my Zn+S flash using this zinc, poured a pile of
~10-15g on a 6*6cm square of paper, and lit the paper by match. Of some reason I didn't expect this mixture to burn faster
than my home-made BP made from simply mixing the ingredients, measured by volume. This showed to be a grave
misjudgement. The paper rolled itself up and turned black, but the Zn+S didn't burn. I lit another match, but before I could
re-lit the paper the Zn+S flashed up, removed my eyebrowes and much of my hair, and burned my hands. Guess I was lucky I
didn't loose my eyes or suffer permanent burns =)
senjoronie January 21st, 2004, 01:06 AM

I've only had one accident, and although it wasn't bad, it startled me a bit. I was distilling dichloromethane from paint
remover. The remover is 91% DCM, but contains a thickener (similar to petroleum jelly) that allows it to stick to vertical
surfaces. The distillation is carried out in several stages, the first of which removes the thickener, which tends to "cake" on the
bottom of the flask as the DCM distills off. Well, as it does so, it traps pockets of gaseous DCM which become heated well
beyond the usual boiling point, and therefore, pressurized. Eventually these pockets burst, usually causing nothing worse than
some bumping and splashing. A Vigreux column keeps it from splashing over the top of the still head. Onto the accident... I
guess that one time I had an unusually large gas pocket form under the caked thickener. Out of nowhere I heard a loud
*POP*, and saw the thermometer adapter fly out of the still head despite being keck-clamped in. Amazingly, both adapter
and thermometer survived after falling to the concrete floor and bouncing around a bit. It made a mess, got DCM and gunk all
over the floor, splattered it on the ceiling too. It happened in the basement, so not a big deal, and it was easy to clean up. I
had done this distillation lots of times without incident but now I pay a lot more attention to ensure that it doesn't happen
again.
Boomer January 21st, 2004, 12:02 PM

SafetyLast, reading about that gram AP going off in the straw from pressing makes me shudder. I have a press now with
a 4-foot handle, but my firs t 2 - gram AP ca ps were done in yo ur way. Must have bee n lucky then
My accide nt came later, and was not caused by AP s sensitivity, neithe r did it happen during manufacture of HEs , or during
assembly of caps or main charges. It was an east Europe cracker, one of those you rub on a matchbox. I used the west
Europe type for 25 years as time delays, they burn exactly 7 seconds (ALWAYS!!!), and are not affected by wind like visco
(lig hting it in your jacket so the lighter is no t blown out ).
This one looked the s ame, bu t burnt o nly se co nd i.e . it went off during the rubbing movement when my hand was just
inches from the matchbox. Approx. 0.5g MHN took thumb, index finger and middle finger from my right hand. Hospital staff
could partly restore the middle finger, but the bones and sinews of the upper 2 joints are gone.
MORAL: Never rely on factory made fireworks! I found a dud and took it apart later. The delay element in the tip had cracks,
making the flame shoot directly into the powder. And those bastards used chlorate, sulphur and RED P instead of BP in those
crackers (I analysed it)!
I think I will not stop completely, but my fingers tremble when I touch AP containers or HMTD caps for disposal now. I will
probably concentrate on things without primaries and fuses, things like EBW caps containing only insensitive secondaries,
where I sit at the other end of a long wire.
TO ALL: We are telling each other story after story, but hardly do we discuss the reason WHY THEY OCCURRED. Please let us
lea rn from each other s mista kes!
pdb: I made NG many times, like other members here, and in much bigger batches. A runaway starts with the batch heating
up, then brown clouds evolve, and then flames + explosion. How could it detonate without warning?
Unknown: These poppers can go off during the tail-twisting, I saw it happen. They take no fingers, but probably fingernails
and skin, and a gravel can hit your eye.
Bert: I assum e the red explosive was Arms trong s ? No soft wrap ping ? O r self-lighting from acid traces?
Mick: Why did the 200g AP go off in the first place?
Bert January 21st, 2004, 01:09 PM
Boomer-
Sorry to hear about your accident. The lesson I take from it is that igniting any charge's delay element with it in your hand is
never to be done- We're not needing hand thrown grenades, eh? I've used plenty of those german match strike crackers,
they're not designed for your adapted use, of course!
Red explosive is chlorate and Arsenic sulphide. It was in a fairly soft plastic container- One of those little "champagne bottle"
confetti throwers with pull string ignition. I'd added a pinch of red explosive to one and re-assembled it, was going to fire it
remotely with a long string and see if it would throw the streamers further. I probably gave it a slight squeeze while carrying it.
I keep the remains of it nailed to the wall in my shop to remind me to think.
powdermunkey January 22nd, 2004, 01:10 PM

Back in junior high school we were trying to make useable BP without wet milling. We'd make about 2 grams, test a little, and
discard the rest into a styrofoam cup. After a series of tests, the cup was just about full, and we decided to mix it up and test
the residue. We scooped a bit out with a metal scapula, shoved the scoop into a bunsen flame, and it worked rather well. The
guy holding the styro cup grabbed the scoop and shoved it back into the cup- without letting it cool. The contents ignited and
melted the cup to his hand. He had third degree burns, but recovered the use of his hand.The entire science club got
'grounded' from using the chemical labs for a month. More recently, I had a KNO3/sugar rocket explode about 30 feet above
the ground. Ruined a pretty good aluminum engine casing, and shot the nozzle about six inches into the ground below. The
same propellant (James Yawn's method) boiled over onto my electric hotplate and ignited, making a largish amount of flame
and smoke- due to careful planning, the hotplate was outside on the ground. The closest call I've had was when I bought
some Tannerite exploding targets. I had one sitting on top of a stump about 8 inch diameter by roughly a foot tall. I had shot
a couple of 7.62X51 rounds through the target without setting it off, so I walked up to about 15 yards away and shot it again.
KERBLAM! I felt a bunch of particles blast me in the legs and chest, but none of them penetrated the fabric. (Although the one
that smacked the end of my willy was enough to get my undivided attention for a minute) The stump was reduced to a conical
shaped stub, about 6 inches tall. Moral of the story- don't detonate kilogram sized charges while standing that close... If a
bigger chunk of stump or a rock on the ground had come my way, I might not have had such a happy ending.
Mendeleev January 22nd, 2004, 09:34 PM

I also posted this in the "Easy Aluminum Powder Honest" thread on pabe two. This goddamn newb named schwartzzy
recommended a good source of a aluminum powder called Alumaseal. I bought some and noticed it was a liquid in which I
noticed silvery aluminum powder floating. Unable to find an exact sheet of ingredients or MSDS on Alumaseal I decided to do
some experimenting in boiling away the solvent to leave theoretically pure aluminum powder. As I poured it into the beaker I
had to pore it back and shake up the can because there was a significant amount of sand and not aluminum powder in it.
After successfuly pouring it into my beaker I put it on a hot plate which I monitored for ten minutes. Everything seeming fine I
went to have a glass of water, and when I came back I noticed a very large plume of white vapors coming out of my beaker.
As a precaution I went to fetch some water, and when I got back with the water which was about 25 seconds the damn thing
was flaming. I dumped into the beaker a half liter of water and poof an 8 foot fire ball occured 3 feet from where I was
standing engulfing me, my hot plate, stool and chair. Luckily I suspected the fire could have been a grease fire and
maintained my distance. All I can say is schwartzy is a fucking asshole newb, who needs to learn to tell people a little more
fucking information before you send them off on a death quest. The shit probably has to much sand in it anyway to purify,
and now I have a hell of a cleaning job to do on by beaker not to mention clean up to sizzling aluminum powder shrapnel on
my porch. I bet he never even used the shit yourself. What a goddamn ass... :mad:
jackhammer January 22nd, 2004, 10:17 PM

I was firing an M2HB, and hadn't bothered to run a thorough check, despite the urgings of my assistant. There must have
been some obstruction in the chamber, barrel, or breech, because when the pin hit the first round it smashed diagnally
downward through the gun, tearing most of it to bits. It's a .50 caliber round,and not only did the gun shrapnel embed itself in
my skin (much to the delight of my "friend"), but the bullet hit a rock sending more shrapnel in our direction. If this wasn't
enough, I got a royal ass chewing (and rightly so) before even being allowed med attention. A valuable leason, and I spend a
lot of time cleaning all my guns.
Anthony January 23rd, 2004, 12:48 PM

Mendeleev, what happened was entirely your own fault. Take some responsibility for your actions, eh?
Mendeleev January 24th, 2004, 12:44 AM

Yeah, I overeacted a bit, but still, the guy could have given me a little more information. All he said was get alumaseal for
aluminum powder, mentioned nothing else, and the company's ingredients are unavailable because it is a "secret".
grammarless January 24th, 2004, 02:36 AM

My accidents were caused by my stupidity, luckily they were not serious. When I was 10 or so I ripped the paper off of a model
rocket engine and then lit it with a match, which gave me some nice burns on my hand. My second accident involved a
propane balloon. I used to fill up a balloon to the size of my fist with butane, and then hold a lighter and let the butane out of
the balloon resulting in a nice fireball. This worked well until I bought a new can of butane, held it upside-down and filled a
balloon to normal size, but I forgot about the liquid butane. The liquid butane expanded and the balloon was almost the size
of my head, and this point I realized that I couldn't let all of the butane out at once, so I lit my lighter and aim a little butane
at it. I pinched the balloon closed and then I realized my problem; a flame was still flickering out of the balloon. Right when I
noticed this the balloon erupted. I remember it being warm and hearing my hair burn. When I opened my eyes my friend
came running towards and started hitting me, but I was still dazed and confused but I figured it out when he yelled "your on
fire, your on fire". Luckily the fire immediately with his assistance.
apathyboy January 24th, 2004, 03:39 AM

Mendeleev: Even if it was pure aluminum, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to pour water on it.
When hot
2Al + 3H20 ---> Al2O3 + 3H2
That goes double for something you KNOW has a possibly flammable solvent in its mix.
Next time, use an ABC fire extinguisher, and test a small quantity of the compound first.
My worst accident would have to be when I decided that it would be a great idea to light a pile of KNO3/sugar smoke mix
powder (the white stuff you get from mixing in water and boiling) with a lighter. This was a long time ago, when I shouldn't
have been allowed to get within 20 feet of any fire. Anyways, I found out that flames hurt, what it's like to have a blister cover
almost half your thumbprint, and to not try to pop said blister (it was a good 2 or 3 mm thick, and resisted needles)
Like boomer said, we should be learning from each others mistakes, so the lesson is: use something that puts your hand
more than 1cm away from the material when lighting things that aren't wood or paper.
Everyone looks back on accidents and says "what was I thinking?". Everyone has those kind of lapses, so you have to prepare
so that the worst possible scenario doesn't involve losing appendages
fire vs. water January 24th, 2004, 05:25 PM

these are so amuzing to read :P
anyway, I've had many small but really dumb accidents...
In my early pyro days, I was melting some saltpeter and sugar (I think it was around 2 KG of the stuff), and I left it for a
second and told my friends to watch it. They didn't stirr it, and it caught fire. It burned the wall it was next to (around 1.5-2
meters high if I remember correctly), and showered me and my friends with burning particles.
Another dumb but weird accident:

I made 3 KG of BP, and wanted to test some. I took a spoon of it from the container, and dumped it 3 meters from the
container. I lit it, and somehow, the 3 KG of BP went off!
I got very minor burns, but I was pissed off at myself for doing something that stupid (although it's still a mystery to me how
it ignited, I was quite far away) and for loosing such an amount of BP.
xyz January 24th, 2004, 07:56 PM

The BP probably ignited from a tiny spark of hot charcoal. BTW, never trust parents with anything even remotely important.
snuk5 January 25th, 2004, 06:35 AM

My worst accident was when I was making synth.coke.
(Rather a mbitious a nd non-lucrative project but I got it right in the end !!!!)
So th ere I have this 3l flask half full with ole um (20% free SO3), together with citric acid. (If you don t kno w what o leum is, go
do a search, I mean there is nothing much worse)
The idea is that the citric acid reacts with the acid so as to give acetone dicarboxylic acid, water and carbon monoxide.
I thought it a good idea to put the stirrer though a stopper and to put a thin PVC hose in it so as to lead the toxic CO out of
the window.
Anyway, the ice bath did not do its job well and the temp got too high.
So now we have not only one molecule of CO evolving but also 2 molecules of CO2!
Serious foaming. Little tube getting blocked.
Stopper finally popping off, with the foamy acid flying into my face and all over the place. (The rotating shaft with stopper
adding to the flying fu n think of it as a electrically powered rotatin g lawn -irrigation de vice but with s omething less pleasant
than water .)
Thanks to glasses, immediate streaming water, and immediate application of half a kilo of bicarb, I still have eyes and a face.
I thought the beard suited me, so I kept it. Except for a few hardly noticeable patches of pigmentation I got off clean. (That
is, after growing a new skin on my face, of course)
Sooo stupid. Redeemed myself a bit by developing a new, improved procedure for
O=CH-CH2-CH2-CH=O.
Ja and then there was my brother making black powder, grinding it when moist.
It took too long to dry as it was quite a lot.
So he spread it out on a large oven tra y and put it into ..
The Oven -door slightly ajar to let the water vapour escape.
That was the fastest haircut he ever got in his life.
His glasses were covered with a layer of white stuff from the flash, so he thought that he was blind for a second. But that was
ok when he took them off
A bit later he looked like an idiot with a practical joker for a barber, who fell asleep on the beach wearing his sunglasses, but
without sun block.
My brother liked the kitchen; he also decided to repair the lawnmower there on a cold day. Lots of petrol (gas) all over the
place.
So he goes and check to see if the spark plug fires.
Our mum non too pleased about the resulting little blaze on her kitchen floor.
It left an interesting pattern on the vinyl flooring.
T_Pyro January 30th, 2004, 05:26 AM

Quote:
"The idea is that the citric acid reacts with the acid so as to give acetone dicarboxylic acid, water and carbon monoxide."
What the hell is "acetone dicarboxylic acid"? Did you mean malonic acid (HOOCCH2COOH), or alpha-ketoglutaric acid? If it's
alpha-ketoglutaric acid, how would oleum and citric acid give that? Inspiration from Kreb's cycle?
Quote:
"Redeemed myself a bit by developing a new, improved procedure for O=CH-CH2-CH2-CH=O."
"O=CH-CH2-CH2-CH=O"? That cannot, and does not exist.
And BTW, where'd you get the oleum from?
Marvin January 30th, 2004, 08:25 AM

Acetone dicarboxylic acid is what it sounds like, take acetone, add a carboxylic acid each side. Its beta-keto glutaric acid. Citric
acid just needs to lose CO2 and water.
""O=CH-CH2-CH2-CH=O"? That cannot, and does not exist"

Interesting opinion.
snuk5, what is your improved method of making (clearly nonexistant) succinic aldehyde?
atr January 30th, 2004, 10:25 PM

I taped 3 sticks of dynamite , (70% forcite) together , crimped a det on 6 inches of safety fuse , inserted the det , lit the fuse
and tossed it overboard . I was in a 17 foot aluminum Grumman canoe in a calm , slow little bay in the river . I figured that
there was about 15 feet of water under me and i threw the bundle about 10 yards out . I had done this once before and there
was a thump when the dynamite went off , the water turned color and i looked for fish . This time the blast was incredible as
the water lifted along with rocks and mud and i was momentarily stunned by the shock of the blast and concussion . I sat
there for what seemed like a long time trying to figure out if i was actually alive or not and how badly i was hurt . I was covered
in mud and soaked with water and the right lens on my glasses was cracked . Just in front of where i was sitting was a hole in
the side of the canoe about 5 inches in diameter . No hole on the opposite side so the rock must have angled upward . I was
sitting in about 15 feet of water but 10 yards out where the bundle landed it was about 6 inches deep . I now fish exclusively
with rod and reel .
Sarevok January 30th, 2004, 10:50 PM

Succinaldehyde (O=CH-CH2-CH2-CH=O) does exists. According to Rhodium (http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/dronefent.txt) it
is made this way:
Succinaldoxime
In a 2-liter, 3-necked flask, equipped with mechanical stirrer and reflux condenser, were placed 1 liter of ethanol, 67g freshly
distilled pyrrole, and 141g hydroxylamine hydrochloride. The mixture was stirred and heated to refluxing, as soon as solution
was complete 106g anhydrous sodium carbonate was added, in small portions, as rapidly as possible; and the solution was
then refluxed for-twenty-four hours. The hot alcoholic mixture was then filtered to remove sodium chloride, and the filtrate was
evaporated to dryness under reduced pressure. The residue was taken up in the minimum of boiling water, the solution
heated with decolorizing charcoal, filtered and the product allowed to crystallize in the refrigerator. Additional product could be
obtained by concentrating the mother liquors. The yield of dioxime varied from 40 to 44g, 35 to 38%, and the product melted
at 171-172C.
Succinaldehyde
A twentieth mole, 5.8g, of succinaldoxime was placed in a beaker of 250 ml. capacity and 54 mL. of 10% sulfuric acid was
added. The mixture was cooled to 0C and to it was added, in small portions, 7g of sodium nitrite, keeping the temperature at
0C. Evolution of nitrogen dioxide fumes indicates too rapid addition of the nitrite. The dioxime was now completely dissolved,
and the solution was allowed to warm slowly to 20C and effervescence to go to completion. The lemon-colored solution was
then neutralized to litmus by the addition of small portions of barium carbonate, and the precipitated barium sulfate was
removed, leaving the free succinaldehyde in the filtrate.
T_Pyro January 31st, 2004, 05:43 AM

Damn. Sorry, my mistake- I misread the "=" between the C and O. Are names such as "Acetone dicarboxylic acid" still in
vogue? I would think IUPAC names are more unambiguous than common names, and help prevent misinterpretations too. Or
maybe I've just not been exposed to the way chemicals are referred to in the industry.
snuk5 February 7th, 2004, 08:33 AM

T_Pyro,
Methinks that you asked quite a bit of questions in a vein that is close to expressing disbelief.
Now I am well aware that the web is full of bullshitters and liars; but I will say this only once here on this forum: I do not lie.
That means that I although I may express myself inaccurately in certain cases, I will never deliberately post a fib with the
purpose to deceive. It s n ot that I want to invite all and sundry to subject me to 3rd de gree cross exa minations, but if anyon e
would catch me on a lie. I invite that person to flame me to bits and to have me removed from this forum. I despise
bullshitting myself.
As for your statement / question:

Are n ames such as "Acetone d icarboxylic acid" still in vogu e? I wou ld think IUPAC names are more u n a m b i g u o u s than
common names, and help prevent misinterpretations too. Or maybe I've just not been exposed to the way chemicals are
referred to in the industry.
Firstly, the name that I gave for the acid is the widely accepted name. Your calling for the use of IUPAC names on a forum
where everybody speaks about NG or ANFO is pedantic.
Apart from that you are strangely incon sistent, as you yourself u se non-IUPAC names like malonic acid or alpha-ketoglutaric
acid
I do no t want to overflame you I am but a hum ble ne wbee he re- but I hop e sincerely that you will do a bit of reading and
thinking before you go and talk all kinds of nonsense.
I don t kno w what the purpo se of your postin gs is but in case you want to impres s people with your knowledge, you run the
serious risk of achieving the opposite of that objective.
I am not from India so why do you want to know the source of my chemicals?
Krebs cycle indeed!
Marvin,
I will give you a little synopsis of wha t I did not do to make no n-exis ting succinnic d ialdehyde and it s h ypothetical p recursor
dihydro,dimethoxyfuran for the purpose of making a compound that has nothing to do with cocaine.
(If you reealy want to I could dig up my notes and give you masses, times and temps, but for now I will dispense with that
as they a re well hidden under tons of jun k! So I ll write from memory.)
Procedure: Add to a solution of ammonium bromide in MeOH a quantity of furan.
Place the mixture in an electrolysis cell having a large bottom surface.
Employ a specially made up anode-cathode couple so as to facilitate sufficient a current to allow for a reasonable reaction rate.
Anode must be of inert material; graphite of a hard variety was found to particular efficient and appeared to withstand at least
12 runs, with out signs of deteriorating. Cathode was of stainless steel mesh.
The cell was placed in the freezer compartment of ye olden fashioned fridge (one with the bare cooling element serving as the
walls and bottom of said compartment, using frozen water to improve contact between the surfaces.
Keeping the temp low is vital as the process takes long and the brown goo must be minimised. If one runs, say 3 amps at
about 13 V one produces 39 watt. (Hmmmm.) Dimethoxyfuran is unstable, especially with the electrolyte and elemental
bromine present
Directly under the cell and cooling element a magnetic stirrer was placed.
The cell was run at 12 V and initially at ca. 3.8 Ampere and this decreased gradually.
The process was stopped at around 97% conversion as per units of Coulomb. (We are talking about a day here)
The total mass was distilled under reduced pressure.
The resulting clear liquid was hydrogenated (with some MeOH present -I recall) with Raney Ni catalyst in a specially made up
250 ml rb flask with extra heavy walls. (Make yourself some kind of motorized shaking device as shaking by hand does not
cut it. Not for me at least!)
The H2 was generated with a dropping funnel with NaOH soln and 1 l flask with alu foil; then dried in a gas washing bottle with
conc. H2SO4. The gas was consumed by the hydrogenation as it was generated. Totally neat set-up!
Yield of dihidro,dimethoxyfuran was as high as 84% (taken from no of moles of furan)
I expect that a theoretically impossible dihidro,dimethoxyfuran as subjected to hydrolysis with the almost unobtainable
dilute sulphuric acid -made by carefully adding oleum to H2O! :)- would never give something like a solution of succinic
dia ldehyde. But if it were at all possible I could have made it .
Oh ja, do not forget to lead the H2 as generated by the cell, from your fridge through some tube or what. And a non-sparking
/ -arcing stirrer is a good idea.
If you don t stick to this ad vice, you might come back to th is page and tell us some sorry tale of an exploded fridge etc
T_Pyro February 12th, 2004, 06:35 AM

snuk5,
I am what one might call a skeptic when it comes to anything related to science. Studying science for quite some time has
proved that nothing can be accepted *as is*, unless proven to be consistent beyond doubt, for anything which is accepted
without thorough scrutiny might be (at least) partly incorrect, and might later lead to greater problems. My sig. expresses the
same fact. This skeptical attitude of mine makes me rather unpopular among professors and fellow students of science, as
you can see. I'm sorry if my questioning offended you, but having read quite some intruiging stuff (go back in the thread and
you'll see), I had to be sure.
Whatever I post is the truest to my belief, and when in doubt, I do not hesitate to refer to my library. In spite of that, if there
are errors, I know that I'm to blame, and welcome anyone to correct me. I know that there cannot be any justification for
errors made (like mine), apart from the consolation that they won't happen again.
Regarding names- When I was first introduced to organic chem, there were no common names used by us, only IUPAC. Later,
when exposed to the real world, common names seemed to be used everywhere! It seemed quite a waste of time having to
label each and every compound separately, rather than follow a uniform set of rules to name a compound. If given the
chance, I'd still prefer IUPAC names- they might be time-consuming to frame, but once used, one can be sure that the reader
will be able to visualize the molecule without any shadow of doubt.
Well, you will have to agree that oleum isn't exactly a standard reagent. However, you're free to keep the source of your
chemicals undisclosed.
Regarding being a "newbee"- It doesn't matter how old or new a member is, what counts are his contributions. I myself am
not even a year old here, and I thank you for not overflaming me.
snooib February 22nd, 2004, 04:44 PM

Something recently happend to me which has steered me away from Shit THAT CAN KILL YOu, its funny though people only
stop when something shit happens to them.
5 weeks ago finally got hold of some mek so whats the obvious thing to make MEKP, the problem was the only fuses i could
get hold of is ones ive had to make myself now the mekp was made and its time to test.i had a 2lt coke bottle with the
bottom cut out i had it placed in a hole in the ground (upsidedown) with the cap been filled half way with the liquid.
i heard the stuff needed little charge like a very small cap to detonate, so i had this small pen lid with a tiny amount with a
fuse running through a short paper tube with the wick about 10 cm exposed ( the whole thing standing upright).
I kneeled down and lit the fuse at that instant a spark flew from the wick and into the bottom of the mekp filled coke cap the
shit went off instantly damaging my hand and my Right ear which is still ringing to this day.
it is enough to make any one crazy and think WTF R3.00 (prob about half a dollar) has now fucked up my ear for life.
to all newbies dont do it, its not worth it. if so any using fuses always lay it down and make it at least 5X longer than you would
have had
Efraim_barkbit February 23rd, 2004, 06:33 AM

Around midnight between saturday to sunday, a 15 year old boy where killed in an explosion in Ume, Sweden. He and three
more boys had made the "bomb" at the fifteen year olds house and went to the park and set it off.
The police believes he was killed imidiately. None of the other boys where hurt.
The article said nothing about the cause of the premature detonation, and it is not known what exlosive was used.
You are neither invulnerable nor immortal.

The tiniest mistake when dealing with this "hobby" can change your life forever.
Think before you act!
simply RED February 23rd, 2004, 07:22 AM

"5 weeks ago finally got hold of some mek so whats the obvious thing to make MEKP, the problem was the only fuses i could
get hold of is ones ive had to make myself now the mekp was made and its time to test.i had a 2lt coke bottle with the
bottom cut out i had it placed in a hole in the ground (upsidedown) with the cap been filled half way with the liquid."
:)
You tried to explain something? Well, you failed!
This is full of mistakes, not only that - it is unbelievably hard to understand what you've tried to say.
Be correct, KeWel NoooBeeeZzzz !
OFEP February 23rd, 2004, 08:11 AM

This post is to follow Efraim barkbits previous post. The 15 year old boy who died in the evening of 21st of february 2004 had
made AP. The scenario is as follows, according to the three other boys: The 15-year old lit the fuse and ran of, but the charge
didn't detonate, so after 5 min he walks back to it using a lighter to guide him or something. Then the bomb detonates, the
yield was 800g of packed AP and it made a 3 meter wide crater and ripped up a lightpole - the boy died immediatly. Back at
his home, the bomb squad found a lot more of AP (see the picture) and, even if the article doesn't mention it,
ammoniumnitrate. The picture is from a Swedish newspaper, Aftonbladet, and it shows the remaining AP drying and several
bags of instant cold packs containing AN.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0402/23/NYHETER-23s11pulver_368.jpg
Bert February 23rd, 2004, 11:01 AM

Kids making AP for a first explosive is way too common now, apparently. I expect to see a lot more incidents similar to this.
The only reason I lived long enough to graduate from high school was that I had only tried to make BP, simple pyrotechnic
mixtures and nitrocellulose, all in fairly small quantities. My accidental ignitions and other fuckups weren't more than a
nuisance. (Oh yeah, I also made nitrogen iodide in sub gram quantities- And had accidents with that too.)
Young men (boys!) have never believed they can die, hence the military recruiters interest in high school age kids... Believe it,
you can die too, and statistically you're actually more likely to than most other age groups in any modern society.
frogfot February 23rd, 2004, 01:37 PM

Believe it, you can die too,
No way!! really!? :eek:
Anyway, no big accidents happened with me, probably because I test syntesises of HEs only few times, only in demonstrative
ammounts. Though now I'm not even comfortable with that.
Truly speaking, I'm afraid of HEs, but it was a great experience to make some and feel what power a compound can contain :)
Bert February 23rd, 2004, 01:50 PM

No way!! really!? :eek:
Anyway, no big accidents happened with me, probably because I test syntesises of HEs only few times, only in demonstrative
ammounts.
And you'll probably not lose more than a few fingers or your hearing thereby. There have been several of these types of
incidents of newbies making a huge ammount of AP (or claiming to have) recently. God knows, I did stupid shit as a teenager,
and maybe even since. :rolleyes: The reason I'm alive and mostly in one piece is because I didn't do these things with
kilogram quantities. The habit of thinking about what could go wrong generaly follows seeing "shit happen" (maybe from REAL
close).
Blackhawk February 24th, 2004, 04:14 AM

DAMN that's a crapload of AP, I'd be positively shitting myself knowing I had even one of those piles drying at home, they
obviously did not understand what the hell they had made. Had those three sheets gone off I would think they would at least
loose a substantial quantity of that room.
infernal February 24th, 2004, 09:45 AM

Bert, every time I go to make something... no matter if i've made it 20 times before or once... I allways watch that video of
the kid having the chlorine blow up in his hand...
makes you think twice.
OFEP March 6th, 2004, 06:24 AM

Quotation:
-----------------------------
"Yeah. Theyre german, I dont have the pack right here, but its almost pure methanamine (or how you now spell that lame
word). You just solve it in aceton and you get it pure (or was it water) I havent really memorized it since I am an AP lamer
(but I do own a pack with methanamine), HMTD is nutting for me :P, but hey, first time I did AP I did 80 grams, second 120
grams, third time (yesterday, drying today) something about a kilo or more... :P I GONNA BLOW MY FRICKING ARMS OFF! And
yeah, I dont treat AP with respect, but well, I got plenty of cold, snow and ice outside so my AP is usually quite resistant
against pressure e.tc. Well, right now my brain feels like weird, I gonna have to put up a few lamps e.tc. (it dried overnight,
switched the newsspaper it was on) and I think I gonna put up a few lamps to get the bitch dry faster. Well, my moms out of
the weekend, thats why I am sitting here with over 1 kilo AP and lots and lots and lots AN. Well, sure, I spam... but.. hey! :P
Well.
Well, almost forgot, I always take all my explosives and just make 1 big fucking bomb of it. 1 kilo AP and a couple of klos AN
coming up."
----------------------------------
Does anyone recognize this post? It was made by a forum user called "phone", that is the same person mentioned previously
in this thread who got killed by 800g of AP. In the thread were he posted this he was warned several times by doing what he
later did and was told he would hurt himself... Obviously he knew how powerful it was and the sensitivity of it.
How someone can be this ignorant is a complete mystery to me.
scarletmanuka March 7th, 2004, 02:54 AM

My worst accident happened just the other day, with my first attempt at synthesising NG. I had a nitrating mix of 50mL H2SO4
and 21g KNO3 cooled to 0C with the idea of adding 8mL NG. However, after adding 1mL instantly, the beaker in the ice bath
heated up, it did not boil or froth, but large volumes of orange brown gas which slowly turned to blood red gas emerged out of
the beaker, carpeting my small back yard to about 10cm in depth. This took about two minutes to dissipate, and I got quite a
decent headache soon after.
Shortly After that, I made some Mn2O7 (about 2mL) outside as well, which spontaneously exploded, as Mn2O7 does, not
detonated, it just sort of ruptured like oil spitting with small flashes, sending Mn2O7 everywhere, igniting some of the
paperwork for my experiments on the grass nearby. I am pleased to report that no property or animals where damaged in
these accidents.
EP March 7th, 2004, 05:00 AM

Here is a fun story:
http://www.xsorbit2.com/users/xinventionspyrotechnics/index.cgi?
board=general_discussion&action=display&num=1078443487&start=0
nbk2000 March 7th, 2004, 06:40 AM

Here's a really funny thing I read somewhere recently.
HEDbait was one of the best members E&W had in a long time, NBK is just a whiny bitch who can't stand having his authority
challenged. Too bad... I wonder if somebody could find his email and invite him over here?
Care to comment?
Hang-Man March 7th, 2004, 10:46 AM

Well, I do a gree tha t that be longs in th e worst accident thread, as I get the feelin g that whoever said that is going to have
an acciden t. :eek:
Flake2m March 7th, 2004, 11:29 AM

Now that would be entertaining. Seeing HEDbait say that to NBK's face. Hmmm, a pimply 12 year old having ago at a much
wiser fully grown man. I can't imagine who would win :rolleyes:
But I have lost my eyebrows and hair a few times. Mainly due to me leaving the gas on the BBQ on too long :rolleyes: or
being an idiot and doing something I shouldn't have done, such as throwing a gram of pressed HMTD into a raging fire. I was
lucking I didn't have a chuck of flaming wood hit me.
Now I have gained more common sense and a "clue".
Doug March 8th, 2004, 01:40 AM

I've been pretty careful with most of the nasty stuff so no serious injuries so far.
I was playing with butane lighter gas when I was younger whilst wearing a towling bath robe and managed to set the whole lot
on fire, I'm so glad nobody walked in or they'd have seen a naked 15 yr old jumping on a burning pile of toweling - bizarre
:rolleyes:
The main damage I keep doing is drilling holes in myself because I'm daft enough to hold whatever I'm drilling. You'd think
I'd have learned by now. The worst one was a 0.5mm tungsten carbide drill for PCBs - I put that one right into the bone on my
fingertip, and yes it hurt. A lot.
I was asked to make an IED for a local airsoft team who were training some new recruits (they take it a bit seriously), so I
popped an electrically initiated charge into an M16 magazine with a couple of tilt switches. The charge was a commercially
produced one which was roughly 1g of BP compressed in the bottom of a small cardboard tube with an electric initiator in the
top, same kind of thing used in paintball/airsoft grenades. I thought it would be a rather good idea to test it first because of it
being enclosed inside a metal casing...
Needless to say, after recovering the now unfolded magazine casing from a field about 20-25ft away I decided not to use it at
the training weekend. Never did find the electronics...
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/maniacdoug/images/mag.jpeg
Edit: A mate of mine volunteered to set it off (fool!), an ex-paratrooper, now a traffic and armed response unit policeman.
Only time I've ever seen him loose his cool. A definite brown trouser moment, and he's pretty glad he listened to my advice
and used a long stick.
EP March 8th, 2004, 02:16 AM

Here's a really funny thing I read somewhere recently.
Care to comment?
I may have put it more bluntly than others have (some here at this forum and still posting members) but I did it in a different
forum and I don't really think it's an argument either of us wants to clutter up the forum with. Banning me for making a
comment on a totally different forum woudl just prove my point, but I'm not looking for a fight and I'm not trying to cause
problems. You could always email me if you wanted to discuss it further. *shrug*
So this reply isn't totally off topic:
My worst accident wasn't anything bad, though it could have been. I was deflagrating AP in the open to show some friends the
fireballs. It was dark and I couldn't really see how much I was pouring out, leading me to pour more than I intended after a
few that went with no problems. I lit the corner of the paper it was on, got back a safe distance and had it DDT instead of just
burn. No injuries or anything, but it was a wake up call.
nbk2000 March 8th, 2004, 04:09 AM

*sigh*
People need to remember that the very nature of the internet means that ANYTHING you say can, and will, come back to bite
you in the ass at the least opportune moment.
Other forum or not, it's not nice to talk like that about people, especially not the admin of a site you frequent. :(
You hurt my feelings.
I think I'll act infantile and lash out at you. :)
(Goes to admin control panel and bans EP, pruning every post he's ever made)
There, I feel much better now. :D
Same for the other people there, who were (past tense) also here, but aren't here any longer.
WOW! I'm feeling ORGASMIC NOW! :eek:
++++++++++++
This would be the scenario if I was such an asshole as most people (at lesser forums) seem to think I am.
But I'm forgiving.
Anyhows, posting links to other english language E&W forums, which you run, signature line or not, equals advertising for
competitive forums, which is prohibited by the Rules.
That's a banning offense if I felt like enforcing it.
Oh, and while there may be no Nazi's ;) over there, there's also a decided lack of grammer or focus. That's just my being
blunt.
E&W forums without a Nazi to enforce discipline means a flood of crap posts. Anyone remember this forum back in '99? Just
like every other crap 30m3z site. That was pre-Nazi.
Now we're Nazi. And see how much better it is? Order and discipline, not to mention coherent posts that you can understand,
are the order of the day. :p
Every other E&W forum I've seen is composed of either people who were banned from here for being foolish/too k3wL to even
attempt posting here (and know it)/too lazy to bother with grammer (a lot of people)/trying to beat us at our own game and
failing miserably.
The worst accident most people have here is pissing me off. Don't stick your hand in the lions cage if you wish to keep use of
it. ;)
EP March 8th, 2004, 06:23 AM

I forgot about the link thing, it was just faster to post the url than copy the message... I'd take the url out of the post but it
won't let me edit it for some reason.
Anyway, good job not freaking out, we've both had our say, etc etc, now I'll drop it and get this thread back on topic.
Accident stories here:
http://krimzonpyro.com/ep/infodir/anar.html
and
http://krimzonpyro.com/ep/accidents.txt
(hopefully the fact that these are hosted on my site, which includes a link on a different page to the forum I help run will not
be considered an ad...)
Chris The Great August 24th, 2004, 08:52 AM

Well, I only recently gained an interest in high energy chemistry. After reading this thread, I am going to be very careful!
As for why many of these accidents happen:
We assume something is a certain way.
Never assume the fuse will last so long. Etc. Etc. Check everything. I've had some accidents with high voltage because I
assumed something was connected properly, when in fact it wasn't. A few extra seconds would have meant alot less pain and
alot less being laughed at by my friend.
As for accidents, the one that scared the crap out of me was a plastic container with a butane/air mixture. It wasn't much, but
it scared the crap out of me when it went off in my face at 3 in the morning in my room. Not much compared to what you guys
are used too, but hopefully it will teach me to be safer around the more powerful stuff.
The most lethal was accidently bumping a 3000 volt capacitor with each of my hands. Nothing like feeling your heart stop to
make you more safety concious. It's also something you don't want to feel again.
I have been very lucky so far and never had a serious injury. I have had countless little ones however, and all these have
taught me is what I said above. The problem is, after you do something dangerous a few time, you don't see it as dangerous
anymore. And then you don't check stuff and suddenly you're short a kidney and a few limbs.
meeks56 August 25th, 2004, 09:29 PM

mine is nonpyro related i was at work i had a 6in cut of wheel for metal i sat down turned it on it sliped out of my hand and cut
a 2in wide 1in deep cut in my leg thats about it
FUTI August 27th, 2004, 10:18 AM

I describe it in some other post but...shortly speaken hydrogen explosion in Kipp's apparatus (how did I remembered what's
the name for the stuff:)) large one (3l)...it seem that it didn't make good seal and even after we (guys involved in the
experiment) purge it pretty good it made the bloody explosive mixture with air. Pretty scary...but gods defended our *** (only
one person got few cuts from the glass flying everywhere) :eek:
croc August 28th, 2004, 08:47 AM

I have not had any serous accidents but gassed myself quite a few times with HCl vapor, HCl gas, SO2, ping pong ball smoke
and the classic KNO3+sugar smoke bomb. ;)
Trigger Mike August 30th, 2004, 04:32 PM

I once was in close proximity to a guy who lit a plastic bottle of petrol, and when unsatisfied with the result decided to stamp
on it which resulted in a HUGE flameburst setting his jeans on fire and making him run around screaming like a girl, and
almost set me on fire by running past me!
This one is not very manly, but when I was about 11 I learned a "cool" trick(its cool when you are 11), lighting matches with
your fingernails.I managed to do it but got some of the powder stuck behind my fingernail which lit up aswell.My finger stayed
black for ages!
Swindle1984 August 31st, 2004, 02:06 PM

The worst accident I've had was setting my shirt sleeve on fire when the match I was using broke in half and the flaming end
landed on my arm. A quick smack on the arm put out the fire and I did a check to make sure sparks hadn't landed anywhere
else I didn't need them, and that was that. Well, it's no longer my good shirt, so I just wear it or something expendable
whenever I do chemical/flammable/explosive experiments now.
Anything I make, I produce in small quantities so it's easier to control. It also decreases the damage you can do to yourself
when you screw up. If I want a bigger bang, I'll combine several units. I'm already worried about the house ever catching on
fire, because my room is where we store the black powder, ammunition, and my fireworks. Yeah, I can pretty much kiss all my
stuff goodbye in the event that my cooking goes horribly wrong.
As for safety equipment, a fire-retardant apron, safety goggles, shooter's ear-phones, a dust mask, gloves, and a shower cap
to keep my hair from igniting are my usual preventative measures. Add in a heavy-duty ventilation fan, available at most
hardware stores, and some damage-resistant equipment, and I'm all set. I figure if I need anything more heavy-duty than
that, I probably shouldn't be screwing around with it.
The reason I wear the ear-phones is to protect my hearing, naturally. I've already lost some hearing in the mid-range thanks
to my hobby of firearms, and it wasn't until a couple years ago that I started worrying about how my different interests could
affect me.
redbull September 6th, 2004, 09:29 PM

Wow, you guys have had some crazy shit happen to you! The worst
that's ever happened to me is a drop of 30% H2O2 on my finger.
Yup, just a little skin burn... I mean I've broken labware and wish
I hurt myself because the glass distilation rig wont get better :-p
Either im lucky or careful... maybe a bit of both?

I tried to make a redox mix out of Cu powder and sulfur. Mixing went fine, but when I had poured the mix into a paper-tube
the mix decided to spontaneously ignite and spray a hot jet of molten CuS straight into my face. For a minute i thought I had
lost an eye, but after examining the eye closer, I found that there was no serious injury (Well, I did loose half of my beird and
a little hair :rolleyes: ). I was lucky that I wore glasses when doing this experiment. Next time I may not be as lucky. I believe
the reason for the spontaneous ignition was the sulfur used. It was not analytical grade sulfur, but flowers of sulfur (being
acidic). This combined with very fine Cu powder led to an uncontrollable reaction. I had my lesson. Be sure of exactly what you
are doing. It doesn't take much to start a dissaster.
aoz September 17th, 2004, 06:28 PM

My worst accident actually occured when I was cooking a smoke bomb. Not much more than a pound of a sugar/potassium
nitrate mix exploded on the kitchen stove. I was just a few feet away from the explosion, which was huge. The smoke took
more than an hour to get out of the house, I had to twist the fire alarms in the house off, and talk to the neighbors about the
huge volume of smoke engulfing my house. Oh, then I had to basically replace that end of the kitchen, including the
hardwood floor.
Macgyver September 19th, 2004, 01:21 PM

In the beginning of my experimentation with HMTD a batch started boiling violently and it ended up rupturing the container it
was in, spraying one of my arms with acetic acid, hydrogen peroxide and HMTD + unreacted hexamine.
I suffered no injury from the accident other than having to explain why there was a strong smell of acetic acid in the apartment
(This was while still living with my parents, about 10 years ago).
The accident was probably because of unpure hexamine extracted from fuel tablets that contained paraffin in addition to the
wanted hexamine.
Bugger September 19th, 2004, 03:53 PM

These cases show the need to wear protective clothing and equipment. At the minimum, safety glasses; better still, strap-on
goggles with protection against side-entry of material, or even better, a full-face motorcycle crash helmet with a polycarbonate
visor.
For clothing, wear heavy layers of a material which is not easily combustible, which rules out most synthetics especially
polyesters (wool or nylon is better). Ideally, the best protective clothing would be made of glass or asbestos fiber, or a
firefighter's protective suit, but these would be expensive. Also wear gloves of an adequate material, and heavy boots.
Bugger.
FrKoNaLeaSh September 19th, 2004, 06:49 PM

My worst accident would have to be a while ago when I had a 2-3g AP polumna detonate about an inch from my hand. I was
lighting the fuse and did not notice the coating on the american visco that ignited before the core. Once I finally realized I
threw it but it went off extremely close to my hand. Blew off skin down to muscle on my pointer finger and speckled my hadn
with paper bits. I have pictures yet don't know how to post them on this forum.
(Add you pictures as an attachment to your post. Don't make them too big though. - kingspaz)
cursed-flesh October 2nd, 2004, 08:23 PM

this isnt much but one time when i was six i snuck into my neighbours barn and found a bunch of rusted aerosol cans or
something like that anyway. i decided to learn about combustion by taking the teeth of a hammer and introducing it forcefully
to one of the cans lying on its side on the ground. presto!!! i had a burst of condensed liquid shoot all over my face and in my
eyes. that hurt like hell. my face was pure white for a week or so, although i dont know if that was from my experiment or my
retarded mother scrubbing my face with turpentine for an hour with steel wool (what a bitch) whatever im happy i can still see.
evilgecko November 14th, 2004, 05:14 AM

My worst pyro accident happened just half an hour ago, and I though I might write about if because I've gotta tell someone
(just not the fire brigade). Anyway, I was setting of BP rockets in my front lawn/paddock, with the rest of the family. I live out
in the middle of no-where, so neighbours arn't a problem. The first two when fine, they both flew up straight and then the
shells nicely exploded. However the third one struggled to gain height, then tilted sideways and flew over the country road and
into the asparagus farm. A few seconds later we heard the pop of the shell exploded, annoyed but not worried, I set up the
forth and final one before I heard a slight crackling. Alarmed I looked up but could not see anything. But then I saw a faint
light coming from the apsaragus farm. "Fire" shouted one of my brothers, and he sprinted after me, over the road, over the
fence in pitch balck darkness. Now just so it be the the rocket had landed in a large patch of dry grass, and just so it be the
stars had ignited it. I started jumping on the roaring fire but to no evail, it kept getting bigger and bigger. I was then getting
really worried. But just so it be I fell into and unknown irrigation ditch, and just so it be it was right beside the fire. Using my
gumboot as a bucket (lol) I heaved water on to the angry fire. By that time my brother finally arrived and we managed to
subdue it.
I can believe how unlucky (landed in grass)/lucky (ditch beside) I was. Man it was close. I've still got adreline in me as I write.
All I got left to show are damn scratchey bites from the mosicetoes in the water.
shooter3 December 14th, 2005, 12:24 AM

I always suspected that oxy/acetylene noisemakers were sensitive to static electricity, so I never did them on dry winter days
'til now that is.
While filling a ziplock bag, I had the acetylene in and was about halfway done with the oxygen when the damn thing went off. I
was holding the bags neck around the torch head and the bulk of the bag was in back of the heal of my left hand. It was
about the size of a baseball. The big surprize was that after realizing my hand was still there I also realized that aside from a
slight tingly feeling and the hair burnt off my hand, there was no damage!
I think that the static charge was from when the inside surfaces of the bag were separating.
Not that I'm going to do it again, but I think if I had swished a little salt water around the inside of the bag, it wouldn't have
gone off.
From now on I'll be filling them remotely(at least the big ones).
nitram3000 March 21st, 2007, 06:06 PM

Just this Monday I set off a 100 gram apan charge that went horribly wrong. The fuse was defective so it burnt way too fast
and the charge detonated with me almost on top of it. I immediately had to go to the hospital because Shrapnel from a little
plastic bottle had cut up my whole left leg and one piece managed to get my arm pit. Right after the blast I noticed that I
could not move my hand. My fingers were clamped down as if I were still holding the lighter. I thought I had blown my hand
off from the feeling of it until I saw everything was intact. Today, two days later my right arm feels like it is "asleep". My left
leg feels a bit numb too. I will just have a lot of scars on my body but I will be fine. The doc said that he might have to do
surgery on my arm pit wound since it is so deep. :mad: I don't trust cannon fuse any more. I was going to use my electrical
igniter but the nichrome was split and the wire was to little to fix. Thats my luck. I encourage all pyros to use electrical ignition
from now on.
I have the footage here on this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaLALuzBVjs
Fourfifth March 22nd, 2007, 07:36 PM

This next 1 isnt my worst. It was someone elses ;)
I studied Chemistry through to my A-levels, and during a lecture potassium was dropped in water as we were studying
exothermic reactions etc...fizzed, turned puple and all the other stuff it does. Lecture over.
After the lecture I decided I need a piss, so off I trot to the Science Dept. toilets, have a quick slash then go to wash my
hands and in the mirror, I see 2 students who were in the same lecture handling potassium they had 'aquired' from upstairs.
One of them throws it into the toilet and they both watch in awe until the potassium pops and lands in one of the lads hair. I
stand there laughing my ass off and in total disbelief, see one of the lads run to the sink, guess what happens next....yep, he
trys to wash it out with water.....
He lost most of his hair and burnt his scalp through to the bone. Dumbass.
The 2 worse to happen to me are climbing onto a shed roof to detonate a rocket with no stick away from everyone/property.
But as I lit it, i turned round to find no ladders, shitting my self I just jumped 15foot to the grass below with my friends family
all laughing at the 'die hard' style stunt. They told me the explosion went off as I left the ledge, making it look like a movie
stunt.
The other was 5-6 years earlier, me and my friend(same as above) were in the same shed I dived off many years later trying
to ignite the inside part of a party popper. I held it over a candle for about a minute, nothing happened, so my friend takes
the pliars holding the insert off me and puts it over the flame, almost instantly it go bang....really loud in a tiny ass shed. Of
course it made him jump back and headbutt me, and I hit my head on a post as a result of this, we both managed to find the
lawn to lay down, really disorientated. that was my first case of shellshock :p Haha
Just silly things really.
Rbick March 22nd, 2007, 07:59 PM

Damn nitram300! Nice footage!
The worse for me wasn't really mine, but I was standing right there. It was back in High School (about 5 years ago) and a few
buddies and I were doing a project for digital imaging class that required the use of some pyrotechnics. We filled ping pong
balls with finely ground black powder and wrapped them in duct tape. They made a pretty good pop. My buddy decided to
throw one while we were filming, except held on to it for too long. So it went off in his hand. It tore up his hand pretty well and
pieces of ping pong ball were embedded in his face and torso. Luckly he didn't lose any fingers and was wearing a paintball
mask, otherwise he probably would have lost his vision. When the docs at the ER asked what we were doing, we just said it was
a firework accident. They didn't ask again even while they were pulling orange pieces of ping pong ball out of his skin. We
caught it on tape, and got an A on the project, but the file has long since been lost.
Sausagemit March 22nd, 2007, 09:52 PM

I encourage all pyros to use electrical ignition from now on.
It's especially dangerous using a fuse when your disposing of outdated electronics.
I had a near miss blowing up a VCR last year. The stout Aluminum head almost landed on my head with a fairly high velocity.
It landed about a foot in front of me with a fairly loud "thud" and buried itself about an inch into some really soft dirt. It
probably would have giving me a pretty nasty bruise and maybe a cut if it would have struck me. If I hadn't been running away
I probably could have been watching out for flying debris.
The worst that has ever happened to me is burning my hand while trying to light off bottle rockets whilst extremely intoxicated.
I have seen my brother get hit in the forehead with a small aerial shell once. He had gravel embedded into his forehead and
had no eyebrows or eyelashes for quite a while. He is really lucky he got his eyes closed before the impact. Don't ever jam an
unmarked shell into a pipe and try to light it with matches. ;)
209 March 22nd, 2007, 10:56 PM

Wow, It sounds like for the most part I have been pretty damn lucky. Thankfully I havent lost any fingers/eyes/hands/nuts. I
have had a couple accidents that have really cost me.
1) was to lazy to pull out the camp stove to melt my KN03/sugar mix, I opted to use my bunsen burner on my WOODEN bench
(big mistake) Of course, it ignites and lights the drywall on fire .:eek:. . I ran to get the hose from the side of the house but it
wasn't there because my friend was washing his car!!! Oh Shit!!! I burned out the wall of the garage and was damn lucky I
didnt burn down the house.
2) lit a shitload of flash and burned the crap out of my hand, I still have 2 huge scars from it.
3) (not really pyro related) I was cutting a huge ass piece of I beam at my job with a big ass cutting torch. Hit the oxygen
lever, begin to make the cut, finish the cut and then........ I watched in slow motion as 3 foot piece of I beam (weighing at
almost 50 pounds) slowly decends towards my exposed foot. I ended up breaking 5 bones in my foot (ouch).
4) Was pressing an AP cap (it was clamped in the vice) and it when off, a piece of the copper pipe found a way to embed itself
in my hip, (I had to dig it out with a pair of pliers) god there was so much blood.
5) A friend of mine was using a drill press, he has this long rasta hair and somehow it got wound around the chuck while it was
spinning at 3000 rpm. Half his scalp was torn clean off, it was not pretty. It look like one of those wacked up people from that
movie Hostel had gotten to him.
moral of the post: don't do dumb shit :D
tiac03 March 23rd, 2007, 01:12 AM

My worst (Think I mentioned it here once) was a Bottlecap full of AP with a rock on it went off about a foot away from my head.
My arm was peppered by sand and small gravel and the inside part of my thigh got hit by a piece of about half inch gravel.
Made a hole in my favorite pair of pants. Anyways Ended up using the hydrogen peroxide we had bought to make the AP to
clean off the blood from my pants and shirt.
The Problem was that we forgot to bring a straw to use as a fuse so I just used a train of black powder, I had done it before
and it worked very well. Problem was that rather than use my crappy home made BP as I had done previously I Used
commercial BP. The 10 inches of powder train I used flashed and before I realized I was fucked it was all over and I was
having a good laugh at my own stupidity. Took about 30 mins before my ears stopped ringing.
Luckily The powder wasn't lighting very easily and I repositioned myself which saved me from having the fist sized rock share
living quarters with my brain.
I've noticed that all my close calls are from (apart from my own stupidity) not respecting the Pyrotechnic aspect of this hobby.
Always something stupid I do with getting it started... Maybe I should go electric... lol.
NUKE(slo) March 23rd, 2007, 04:11 PM

Well my worst accident coud be fatal to me but i was very very lucky:p . I spilled myself with almost 1 L of 96% sulphuric acid.
The bottom falled off when i hit ceramical desk with the glass bottle:rolleyes: . The H2SO4 was all over my clothes (it was
winter so i wasn't wearing shorts). But fortunaly i didn't get a single drop on my skin. Conciquences were only destroyed clothes
and a few months of fear with working with the sulphuric acid.
Sorry for my spelling I hope u get the point.
mil&co March 23rd, 2007, 04:41 PM

Wow, you have been extremely lucky then.
Your skin can take SA for some time, I geuss even half a minute wouldn't do much harm (you can rinse your hands with it, but
only if you aply water fast enough), but getting even a drop in your eye would be disastrous, it'll turn you blind for certain if
you do not act quickly.
Have you seen "The phantom of the opera" (1983 version)?:p
chemdude1999 March 23rd, 2007, 06:11 PM

I worked with a older gentleman that previously worked in a huge arsenal in the midwest (take a guess). They made huge
amounts of TNT. Well, one day he was taking readings or gathering a sample (can't remember which). A line carrying
concentrated nitric acid ruptured above him and sprayed him quite thoroughly. Luckily, his eyes were protected and they had
showers positioned all over the place. He dove for a shower and yanked the lever.
He had minor 1st degree burns (4th degree if you want to consider them chemical burns) smattered over his arms. He healed
up fine. I asked him if he turned yellow and he explained that the nitric had not had time enough to oxidize. Very lucky man.
Good thing it wasn't silver nitrate.
PanMaster March 23rd, 2007, 07:49 PM

A few people presumably from the USA seem to have lost hands and eyes. Such stupidity would surely be found "only in
America". Who would light an untested device by hand?
Why not show some pictures of these horrific injuries? Do you wear eyepatches or prostheses?
Without any pictures I don't believe any of these stories.
stupid939 March 23rd, 2007, 08:05 PM
Here you go PanMaster, this is from the PFP database:
http://members.shaw.ca/gryphon223/consequences.html
My worst injury would have to be something rather careless that happened a few years ago. I took apart some mini roman
candles to harvest the stars. What I was left with was a fuse and a large pile of mainly sawdust with some granular black
powder mixed in (the black powder was barely visible).
I lit a small pile, and it mainly smoldered and did hardly anything. So i took the rest I had (about 50-100g?) and lit it in a
small tin can. WHOOOMP, and it burned some of my eyebrows and quite a bit of hair on one side of my head. Luckily a hair
cut took care of that and I turned out to be fine.
Rbick March 23rd, 2007, 08:06 PM

Good idea PanMaster, insult Americans in a forum that consists of a good percentage of Americans. And its odd that you make
this statement when a good amount of those who posted arn't even from the US... Hey if it weren't for us, you would be
speaking German right now. So show a little respect.
In addition, I believe my personal worst accident was spilling a 2.5 L jug of conc. H2SO4 on my basement floor. It came in
contact with some water from outside on my floor and filled the entire room with fumes. I needed my M-40 gas mask and a
full bag of wood chips to clean it up, it sucked. Luckily H2SO4 doesn't react with Vinyl. :)
Xenodius March 26th, 2007, 12:50 AM

Hey, I have been out for a while, I looked (searched :p) around the forum and didn't find any threads like this and feel so
much more cozy here in the cooler... Anyway, to (self-humiliating) business.
Its not easy to type with boxing gloves on, so I will be short. :rolleyes:
*I made 100g CuO thermite, using flour like consistency CuO and 400 mesh atomized Al. Stuck it in a plastic bathroom cup
and inserted a 2", fairly thick Mg ribbon. Lit the ribbon, and it went in w/o setting off the thermite, but lit the cup on fire
(touched the rim) and the cup continued to burn down the side.
*I realized that the precious CuO would be uselessly dispersed in the silty soil, so I went up to throw some dirt on it and it
exploded in my face/hands, I think cause it avalanched out of the cup and re-exposed a Mg tidbit. Anyway, I was holding a
bottle in my right hand which absorbed the brunt of it, my right hand wasn't as lucky. It ruined my Fila hoodie, my favorite
ever, and my most comfy shirt under that, plus my shoes, and my (new) jeans have metal embedded in the material... its red
and crusty. My hoodie stayed aflame when it went off, and I didn't know cause my eyes were burnt shut. Thank God my family
was there, although my mom majorly freaked-- my face was black with skin hanging off.
*2nd degree burns on my hands/face, but thank God^9999 that I can see, I just got my eyes open this Thursday, they had
started bleeding and the scabs built on themselves to a disgusting point. My lips couldn't even form a seal for over a week.
Picture below, 1 1/2 weeks after. My "DANGER - NO SMOKING - FLAMMABLE GAS" sign would be more appropriate.
http://alkaspace.com/is.php?i=16829&img=SIMG0008.JPG
Lessons learned:
*Fuse goes out, don't freakin walk up to it, PERIOD.
*CuO thermite is *very* energetic.
*Always use appropriate gear: blast shield (like swat face shields), welding gloves, non-flammable clothes.
*Always have a bomb buddy
'kay, my hunt-and-peckin thumbs hurt now, so signing off, remember, share your bad experiences and hard lessons. Jeez
that was long.
PS: Doctor bill for just 5 visits, only rebandaging, prescriptions and advice, is ~$700... *moan*
~
Xeno :)
nbk2000 March 26th, 2007, 04:12 AM

You mustn't have looked very hard, since your thread was listed just a few above the thread that it is now in.
Anyways...
Either you're face is burnt to the degree that'd make the Elephant Man wince, or you learned how to use halloween makeup for
a really cool costume.
Lets get a clear (not outta' focus), well-lit, closeup of the area around your eyes. That'll show if you really are injured, or if
you're using stage makeup.
IF you really are injured...fuck dude....you're fucked! :eek:
But, like you said, your alive and not blind. Do you still have 10 fingers?
This serves as a warning to others who may be thinking that Thermite and other non-explosives are 'safe'. No, they're not.
They're just dangerous in a different way.
UTFSE would find several videos showing how explosive Copper Oxide Thermite to be.
Tackleberry February 4th, 2008, 07:46 PM

Complacency can be deadly. Having done this heaps of times I was disarming a 40mm projectile by drilling through the base
after removing the inert filling and then cutting the projectile in two for placement on a polished board as a trophy. After
identifying that it was inert I placed it in a special vise and (fortunately) wearing safety equipment including a ballistic face
mask from the EOD kit I proceded to drill out the base.
"Whats this grey stuff,?? It should be a plasticine mix.?? "
As I withdrew the drill bit the tracer compound went off in front of my face. Didnt quite crap myself but spots were in front of
my face for hours.
A bit of a history check revealed that when WW2 ended all the ammo in the Northern Territory (Australia) was destroyed by
burning. As a result lots of live ammo was thrown all over the place. A scrap dealer in the fifties took all the brass cases and
left the projectiles on the range. Consequently a lot of projectiles were used as door stops, repainted etc. This particular
projectile being one. Nothing on the projectile would have identified it as tracer. A lot more water based lubricant would have
been appropriate.
Jabir ibn Hayyan February 6th, 2008, 01:21 PM

I have a list of injuries and close calls. None of them have damaged me enough to create an impressive story, but the fact
that my accidents happen so often, and the fact that they have happened so many times is enough to make anyone
wond er how much longer I can stay s afe. I can t stay lucky fore ver, o ne of these da ys I m g o ing to get a real injury, but so far
I haven t had a bed e nough a ccident to reconsider my hobby interests , and it s n ot like these accidents didn t help me learn
valuable lessons.
1. I boiled Sodium Hydroxide concentrate in a Pyrex glass. It was not borosilicate, and it shattered. The skin on my fingers
dissolved, my hot plate began sparking, and I got shocked right before it died.
2. I added hot water to Sodium Hydroxide instead of cold, the bowl I was using was completely destroyed, I had minor eye
damage, I got boiling water all over my hands, and I breathed in caustic fumes which was the most painful of all.
3. I mad e a stupid little Work s bom b in a glas s bottle, I sh ook it for too long an d instead of the glass shattering the cap
launched into my face along with HCL and Aluminum Chloride. I immediately ran to the shower and washed it off of my face
and eyes.
4. I was grinding some aluminum on my bench grinder which I was about to put into my ball mill, turns out I grinded my hand
instead. That happened several times with large amounts of flesh loss.
5. I used a large folding knife to cut open an Etch-a-Sketch and experiment with the fine aluminum resin, the knife closed on
my hand resulting in severe nerve damage on my right index finger. (If I touch the top, it feels like someone is tickling the
bottom.)
6. I inhaled enough aluminum powder to get sent to the hospital for a chest examination and an X-ray
7. I lit a batch of Thermite with a magnesium ribbon that was just too short, my hand was red and crispy for a week.
8. I tried to hydrolyze p alm oil to retain the Palmitic a cid for Napalm. I started a massive grea se fire instead, cou ldn t put it
out, burnt my hair and face, almost burnt down my kitchen.
9. I boiled some dry baking soda in my kitchen to decompose it from sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate. I got co2
poisoning and vomited for three days.
10. I mixed several large sized boxes of steel wool with 2 gallons of bleach, and one gallon of vinegar inside a large plastic
trashcan. I could barley see, or breathe. I ran away from the trashcan in fear of further chlorine gas poisoning, but by the time
I got back at least I had a wonderful batch of Iron Oxide.
Ratman2050 February 7th, 2008, 04:33 PM

I have a list of injuries and close calls. None of them have damaged me enough to create an impressive story, but the fact
that my accidents happen so often, and the fact that they have happened so many times is enough to make anyone
wond er how much longer I can stay s afe. I can t stay lucky fore ver, o ne of these da ys I m g o ing to get a real injury, but so far
I haven t had a bed e nough a ccident to reconsider my hobby interests , and it s n ot like these accidents didn t help me learn
valuable lessons.
1. I boiled Sodium Hydroxide concentrate in a Pyrex glass. It was not borosilicate, and it shattered. The skin on my fingers
dissolved, my hot plate began sparking, and I got shocked right before it died.
2. I added hot water to Sodium Hydroxide instead of cold, the bowl I was using was completely destroyed, I had minor eye
damage, I got boiling water all over my hands, and I breathed in caustic fumes which was the most painful of all.
3. I mad e a stupid little Work s bom b in a glas s bottle, I sh ook it for too long an d instead of the glass shattering the cap
launched into my face along with HCL and Aluminum Chloride. I immediately ran to the shower and washed it off of my face
and eyes.
4. I was grinding some aluminum on my bench grinder which I was about to put into my ball mill, turns out I grinded my hand
instead. That happened several times with large amounts of flesh loss.
5. I used a large folding knife to cut open an Etch-a-Sketch and experiment with the fine aluminum resin, the knife closed on
my hand resulting in severe nerve damage on my right index finger. (If I touch the top, it feels like someone is tickling the
bottom.)
6. I inhaled enough aluminum powder to get sent to the hospital for a chest examination and an X-ray
7. I lit a batch of Thermite with a magnesium ribbon that was just too short, my hand was red and crispy for a week.
8. I tried to hydrolyze p alm oil to retain the Palmitic a cid for Napalm. I started a massive grea se fire instead, cou ldn t put it
out, burnt my hair and face, almost burnt down my kitchen.
9. I boiled some dry baking soda in my kitchen to decompose it from sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate. I got co2
poisoning and vomited for three days.
10. I mixed several large sized boxes of steel wool with 2 gallons of bleach, and one gallon of vinegar inside a large plastic
trashcan. I could barley see, or breathe. I ran away from the trashcan in fear of further chlorine gas poisoning, but by the time
I got back at least I had a wonderful batch of Iron Oxide.
Sigh. These are are careless mistakes, not accidents. Your are very very lucky to be in enough health to be posting on here.
Anyways, take more care, some of these seem like a k3wl trying to gain awe here.
However, about the nerve ending, I was shot with a bb gun through my hand, almost paralyzed my hand, I get that same
tickling feeling.
UnderConstruction February 8th, 2008, 01:07 PM

I haven't really done enough yet to have made any notable mistakes, I used to get a lot of H2O2 burns using 35% conc., and
once I was almost scared shitless when the burner was flipped on in a room filled with acetone fumes.
Jabir-
That's a cool name by the way, I got the Alchemical Works of Geber a few months ago.
Rbick February 8th, 2008, 01:43 PM

Damn Jabir! Are you scarred for life from any of those incidents? I can't imagine your face looking normal after having HCl and
Aluminum Chloride sprayed all over it.
I've already posted a couple times on this thread, but another good one was the time I almost blew myself up with 400g of
ANFO. It was a dry time during the summer some years back and I had buried a 400g charge of ANFO w/ 50g booster about
20cm under ground. Cap was probably 1g AP if I remember correctly. The charge was just for fun, as I was bored and wanted
to see something explode.
Anyway, I lit the fuse, or at least tried to. It was a crappy fuse I had been storing for quite some time, several years or so. It
was about 8 inches in length. So the tall, dry grass started on fire before the fuse did. It didn't seem like a problem at first,
since I figured the ANFO blast would blow it out. After about a minute, the flames were getting fairly large and the charge still
hadn't gone off. The flames had burned all the grass around the charge and started to move towards the house. I left my
cover and ran to stomp out the flames before the fire department had to get involved, which has happened before.
Everyone can guess what happened next, the charge went off about 20 ft. away from me. In the midst of trying to put out the
flames, I didn't realize how close I had gotten to it. So I was pelted by large pieces of dirt and my ears were ringing for days. I
have to admit, it was kind of cool feeling the pressure from the blast, but it was a DUMB mistake. I recovered and successfully
extinguished the flames. What I learned: Use a higher quality fuse, or electric firing system (one of which I just recently
invested in), and clean anything that may catch fire away from the charge.
joffe February 8th, 2008, 05:14 PM

I've made one major mistake that nearly cost me my life. I was supervising what turned out to be a complete moron in the
preparation and placement of non-electric firing systems. He prepared a fairly standard charge with detonating cord, primed in
both ends. But what I didn't notice (but should have) was that one of the fuzes was more than half a meter longer than the
other. And when the charge went off, we approached the site and when we got pretty close a second explosion occured. I was
hit in the leg by a large wooden splinter that severed the main artery - if the plinter hadn't stuck I would have bled to death in
a very short time. The idiot had bent the cord which was cut and the delayed fuze fired the remaining charge. Well, I should
have checked more closely and that's a mistake that I never repeated. Never saw the idiot again, by the way.
Rbick February 8th, 2008, 05:44 PM

I'm curious as to how that went over with the authorities, although I'm assuming you're licensed or in the military as you had
what I imagine to be commercial det cord. If this incident was job related, is this the reason why you never saw him again?
Because he was fired? Even if it was for leisure, I wouldn't talk to somebody again after something like that.
Could you describe the charge again, I'm a bit confused. If it was primed at both ends, how did it fail? Were you using shock
tube?

Yup, I was in the military, but not your military. It was a ring main with five branch lines, each one connected to a 250 gram
TNT charge (I'll never forget the number of charges). Primed with a non-electric blasting cap in each end. He must have made
mistake at the U-turn. I don't blame him for that - it's happend to me a couple of times. So there were either 500 or 750
grams that was set off in the second explosion.
He was offered a hefty fine (somewhat similar to your plea-bargains) which he accepted - he'd be a fool not to. I didn't have
to show up in court - the police and the military enquiry commission just took my statment from the hospital bed when I was
out of surgery. He was then transferred to some God-forsaken place for the rest of his service.
Myself, I spent 3 weeks in hospital. I have a nice circular scar that really looks like a bullet wound. I sometimes tell people I
had an encounter with the business end of an AK-47.
darkhunterjag February 8th, 2008, 08:40 PM

A little back story before I go into my worse accident. I have a cat that likes to be a nosy little thing and it interrupts me a
majority of the time by walking into the middle of what I am working on. Now onto what I was going to contribute.
I was emptying shotgun shells for the black powder and placing it in a container on a counter. I get a phone call in the other
room and being the scatterbrained person I am I went ot answer it. It was a simple 5 minute the girlfriend is coming over call.
That meant to me "Get your stuff in order and hide stuff."
I go back to where I was and the cat is on the counter. Good old Coon Cat. She knocked the black powder down to the ground
all over the kitchen floor. There goes about a good hour of work. I damn near killed the cat right there but she ran and hid.
Fast forward to me cleaning all the black powder I see, girl comes over, and the Friday Night date is over and done with. I got
into the kitchen when I get back and I'm tired so I go to bed. I wake up the next morning and turn on a burner to fry an egg.
Few seconds and the burner goes up and kind of sets the wood counter near it on fire. I shut the burner off and somehow get
the fire under control and put it out before my house burned down.
Black powder had fallen into the burner and me being stupid never saw it. I still have burn scars on my left hand from putting
that fire out.
tmp February 9th, 2008, 02:40 AM

As a teenager I underestimated the sensitivity. Took a long time for the
eyebrows to grow back but no other injuries. Haven't worked with that shit
ever since !
Charles Owlen Picket February 9th, 2008, 09:08 AM

....It was a ring main with five branch lines, each one connected to a 250 gram TNT charge.... That's why we "generally" don't
use non-electric on multiples (and mostly Nonel). Strange deal.... :( Femoral artery injuries are really very nasty.
joffe February 9th, 2008, 10:38 AM
My Army (I left several years ago) are using Nonel more and more. But the classical ring main is still very much in use.
Sappers (probably the only MOS worth having) are taught the ring main before they're taught Nonel systems. It's probably a
question about economy. Nonel is still pretty expensive compared to the detonating cord. Is it correct that the old non-electric
blasting cap is no longer produced in the US?
Yes, it was a close call. If it weren't for the splinter that was stuck in the wound and the ambulance that alwas had to be
present during demolitions exercises, I wouldn't be writing this.

To the best of my limited knowledge; the last mfg was surplus from Atlas that was bought up by a distributer working with a
company called Hodgen (who makes cannister powder and is last American manufacturer of "Visco" fuse). They exist but are
not being manufactured, per se'.
In the US the detonators that one sees commercially are emblazoned with numbers and codes to an almost laughable degree.
They have embossing and stamping of codes that delineate the manufacturer's date of mfg, who used what machine, what
shift, and who handled the packaging. This is to prevent diversion of the product naturally, but served to make an object that
costs pennies and sold once for several to a dollar.....to a cost of several dollars per unit!
Fuse caps are difficult to plaster with all the codes and such. Now you see detonators that have a little non-removable brightly
coloured plastic housing more to hold all the codes and written crap than to make them visible! The days of the simple tube,
closed at one end packaged in boxes of a thousand are gone. Today they are mostly sold by the half dozen and dozen on an
individual basis. And if a firm wants to use a great deal of them they come in a shipping container that could hold a sea-chest
& costs a fortune! Commercial firms are encouraged to use other means of individual initiation than multiple caps.
joffe February 9th, 2008, 11:20 AM

Thank you. Even worse than I fearerd. Last time I picked up a non-electric blasting cap, it was marked with the number "8" in
the closed end as in a "number 8 blasting cap", and that was all the markings I found.

This is a fun subject for me and I have some strong opinions about public project engineering.... There are Nonel fit caps.
They have a clear tube on the end and a join-section for the tube. I imagine that they could be called "a non-electric" but they
cost a ridiculous amount of money. I still get a magazine called Explosive Engineer that has all the latest crap in it and the
prices seem like someone doesn't want to sell a God damn thing!
The issue is that these companies know that the projects are all either publicly funded or so steeply bid (like a building demo)
that they can get away with pricing stuff at a ridiculous level. The explos. industry took a serious hit when the public found
ammonium nitrate. They sought to make their money back and actually invented slurries as a way of inflating the price of fert-
grade ammonium nitrate (DuPont's "Blast Grade" is BS that has been cooked non-coated prills that cost LESS than the
fertilizer grade stuff!!!!!). Since they generally sold to people who also needed to inflate the bottom line, they got away with
slick page ads for brightly packaged "sausages" of super-duper "heaving explosives". The "line" was "you need a certain type
of "push" to do that work that only baloney slurry can accomplish"....and people wanted to believe it.
Qualified engineers knew that work was work and that only in mining did the break-up of rock for a pre-determined size really
matter & that could be accomplished cheaply. But it made good ad copy and inflated the bottom line. What's more, the
companies couldn't charge for BP blasting anymore as it became more of an art form that few found in schools.
If you have a professional background in that sort of thing and still enjoy it go to the ISEE web site and look at the book
sections. Get on mailing lists and get the magazines....they send them for free anyway......as who knows, you might be a
good "in" to a fat contract somewhere. <grin> It's fun. And all that crap is free anyway; no one would pay for it.

Thank you for the link. I hold both military and civilian blasting certificates, but, unfortunately, ex-army sappers aren't much
sought after on the civilian blasting market. This is mostly due to the fact that we're not considered to be economical enough.
In other words, civilian companies believe we use too much explosives - and they're right! So I when I left the Army, I found
different work. But boy, do I want to get back in business!
Things seem to be better in Europe though. With the expanded EU, British, French, Swedish and German manufacturers have
got competition from Polish and Czech explosives manufacturers.
deformedreality February 9th, 2008, 02:44 PM

I only have a few accidents that involved chemicals and such. When I was in college in a metal and jewelry working class some
dumb bitch turned the crock pots of acid on to high of a temperature (we only needed it slightly warm, if its too hot it will eat
the metals very quickly) well i was just finishing up a solid gold coin that I just finished casting and needed to clean up a few
spots so i threw it in the acid. Soon after i realised there was a brownish yellow fumes coming off of it so i quickly grabbed the
tongs and pulled my piece out. Dyed a few of my fingers yellow for a month.
Ever since a young age my brother would teach me how to make things such as flash powder inside a hunting arrow with a
primer and a piece of a nail glued to the end. He was very thorough on things and taught me to be the same way. The only
accidents involving explosives were always done to my friends. Such as sticking a lit match inside a bottle full of black powder
and getting burned under the fingernails really bad. It seems like people get hurt when makeshift ignition sources are used
because they are in too much of a hurry to do things the right way.
Anformula February 9th, 2008, 03:34 PM

When I was a kid I tried to turn a Ruger 10-22 into full auto. With hand files and a drill I tried to make a small piece out of
aluminum that locked the sear disconnect. Really moronic, crude stuff.
So, like an idiot I did not test it with one or two rounds in the magazine. I loaded a full 20 round clip, lock and load, and pull
the trigger.
It DOES go full auto, for 5 or 6 rounds. Then a round goes off when halfway chambered, blows the magazine out of the rifle,
and sprays a load of shrapnel from the case out the ejection port. No injuries resulted, but man I felt like a moron.....rightly
so.....:p
totenkov February 9th, 2008, 10:59 PM

A friend of mine who isn't the most intelligent of people dipped a wooden match up to the head in MEKP and then gave it to
his friend to light as a funny "joke". Severely mangled his index and middle finger, they still are all messed up cause bone
became so mangled.
Rbick February 10th, 2008, 01:01 AM

Wow, if someone blew my fingers off because they thought it would be funny to have me light a match dipped in MEKP, I
would take my severed fingers and shove them up their ass. Stories like that piss me off. No offense totenkov.
Positron February 16th, 2008, 09:36 PM

I once ground up a black-powder based "C" rocket engine when I was very young. I thought I'd be the smart and stay away
from whatever the hell would happen when I lit it; so I used a magnifying glass and sunlight to ignite it instead of a match.
That got my hand an entire 4 inches away. That was far enough, right?
A few sparklies, then a big orange fireball rapidly approaching my face. Closed my eyes, and felt flame over my entire body.
Involuntarily threw myself backwards into a patch of clover. Stood up expecting to be on fire...I wasn't...so took a deep
burned-hair-smell breath of relief and brushed myself off.
My right hand felt funny, so I looked down to see melted skin sliding around on the back of my fingers.
3rd degree. I kept it directly in ice-water for a couple of days to keep the pain away; it worked incredibly well. Nights were a
bitch.
If I removed my hand from the glass of ice water, it was 30 seconds before tears from an intense burning and stinging
sensation. When under the water, I didn't feel a thing. Pretty amazing I thought.
Cause of accident: Dumb kid didn't realize the power of what he was dealing with.
Haven't been hurt since.
sbovisjb1 February 17th, 2008, 07:21 PM

Being shot at outside the French Hotel in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia by Rebels.
Masonjar Chemist February 26th, 2008, 12:15 AM

Cause of accident: Dumb kid didn't realize the power of what he was dealing with.
Haven't been hurt since.
I did then same when trying to cast KNSU mix a few years back. I know exactly what you mean by the water thing, amazing
isn't it?
Other than that, I had an accident similar to Rbick's involving ANFO, only it never did detonate, but caught half of a field on
fire.
Hightimes February 26th, 2008, 04:15 AM

Well I have done some stupid! things, well I tried to dry NC in front of a heater for one, I burned a hole in the carpet.
Had another close call with my first attempt at making nitroglycerin, as I was walking away I herd a fizzing noise then a HEAP
of nitrogen dioxide came off the beaker.
Also I have had a few grams of Acetone peroxide go off in my face,

stupid mistakes that could of been avoided or could of been a lot worse
Azido March 1st, 2008, 02:19 AM

The worst accident I ever had wasn't related to explosives at all in fact. I was boiling a toy soldier in oil when I was smaller,
and as little budding idiots do, I go t distracted. I came back to find over half a liter of oil had begun to boil, then burn. I was
terrified, and I had planned to go throw it outside, but I was afraid of spilling it.
The solution at the time? Douse it with water!
I turned the cold tap on full blast while holding the pot.
The resultant fireball towered over me, toasted my hand, and scattered oil droplets everywhere. Scary.
Gammaray1981 March 10th, 2008, 05:30 PM

BP, plus about 1/5 part of KClO4, got me at about age seven. I lost my fringe, my eyebrows, and all the skin off the thumb-
side of my right hand - I picked out quickmatch rather than slowmatch. It took about a half-second to travel the twelve inches
from lighter in hand to the ten-or-so grams of piled mixture. I was, I think, lucky to keep my eyesight.
Thankfully, my father saw the funny side of it, and didn't end my home education in these things.
I still, thirteen years later, have a section of my right hand that stays white for a few seconds if pressed.
Oddly enough, I then started labelling my fuse in coloured electrical tape.


The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Pyro laws in florida
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View Full Version : Pyro laws in florida
Nehebkhau Novem b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 3 , 0 9 : 2 1 P M
C a n s o m e o n e l i n k m e to a site regarding pyrotechnic laws/rules/regulations in florida?

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > PDF creation?
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View Full Version : PDF creation?
klassasin Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 06:55 PM

W hat do any of you recom mend for creating PDF files? I am aim ing for som ething free if possible. Any suggestions?
Any help greatly appreciated
-klassasin
Scientist Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 07:08 PM

If you don't care about m e n u c r e a t i o n y o u c a n s i m p l y u s e t h e o p e n s o u r c e p r o g r a m m e p s 2 p d f .
Just print your text into a file and then create a pdf from the ps-file.
Sim ple.
streety Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 07:14 PM

Alternatively just illegally download a copy of something like Adobe Acrobat Professional from Kazaa. Its a fairly bg file though
s o b roadband would help but it can be done on a 56k m o d e m .
klassasin Novem ber 3rd, 2003, 10:04 PM

C o o l . I h a v e b r o a d b a n d s o t h a t i s g o o d . T h a n k s for the suggestions. :D
Edit: I have found a program that just "prints" whatever document. You can type a document with text and graphics then goto
print and select the specific printer and it will ask for the pdf to becom e created. The only downside is a little popup sponsor
ad. Not bad though.
Y o u c a n g e t t h e p r o g r a m h e r e (http://www.pdf9 95.com/download.htm l).

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Sexual Pyro Arousal
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View Full Version : Sexual Pyro Arousal
IDTB Novem ber 4th, 2003, 12:57 AM

I'm not sure if this will be a to uchy subject, but I'm curious of yo ur opinions. I found an excellent link that best describes what
I'm referring to. http://m e m b e r s . o z e m ail.com .au/~jsjp/pyro.htm
xyz Novem ber 4th, 2003, 05:10 AM

To quote Mr. Garrison from South Park , "I'm not touching this one with a 20 foot pole" :)
Seriously tho ugh, I find explosives and pyrotechnics fun, but definitely not arousing. I don't set things on fire for no reason
either (which is what that article is referring to, m ost of us use the word "pyro" to refer to pyrotechnics, not serious a rson-type
pyro m a n i a ) .
It is an interesting article though.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > rem ote detonation
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View Full Version : remote detonation
jim2 Novem ber 4th, 2003, 09:43 AM

I a m very ne w to this forum .I just completed m y 1st synthesis of AP and it worked out OK. W ith a little looking arou n d I f o u n d
all the info that I nee ded.I thank all who posted to help us newbies gather the knowledge to safely and confidently do our
thing.
Now that I have the p rocedure for AP I am interested in rem ote detonation of AP caps.I know that I can use walkie talkies and
by u sing he receiving unit wire s to the speaker direct current into the cap.My questions are, How much curre nt or how much
voltage is ne eded to detonate an AP cap? Is a capacitor needed and how do I wire it to open the capacitor voltage to the
system .I know very litle about electron ics so I ask here and not in a normal forum? I would appreciate any input I can get on
the road to detonation.Again thanks all.
grandyOse Novem ber 4th, 2003, 11:24 AM

I'm not sure what it takes to ignite AP, but I do know about radio.
Any radio receiver is subject to receivin g spurious signals at any time. Interference can com e from anywhere at any tim e . T h e r e
a r e n u m bero us reaso ns for this, with which I will not bore you. This is NOT good for the pyro. There are ways to m inimize this
risk of prem ature detonation, though. The cheaper the radio, the greater the risk. Choose an anused frequency if p o s s i b l e .
UHF is not as subject to "skip" as HF and VHF. Rem e m ber, the more com m o n t h e f r e q u e n cy, the m ore risk you take. If you
u s e t h e F R S r a d i o s , t h e r e a r e l o t s o f u s e r s o n t h e s a m e frequency. I kno w they have different "privacy codes" (CTCSS) that
help to m inimize interference, but don't count on it. For CRYING OUT LOUD DON'T U SE CB! It is better to use a digital signal
e n c o d e d a t t h e t r a n s m itter and decoded at the receiver. A cheaper, easier way is to use DTMF (telephone k ey pad) or
m ultitone system (fire dept. p agers). Add on circuits are available for 2-way radios. All mo bile radios (your chief con cern) use
vertical polarization. You can use horizontal polarization , just turn the antennas horizontal to the ground and parrallel to each
other, not pointed at each oth er. Televison is a bout the only horizontially polarized signal you can expect, unless you get into
m icrowave. Another way to m inimize risk is to use a low sensitivity receiver and powerful transm itte r.
If you do not want to get into building circuits, there is a com mercially available system ca lled MDC you can get with Motorola
radios. W hich are quite pricey, but rugged as hell and work when others fail. You will still n eed to build a triggering device to
drive a relay, but these are pretty sim ple. Talk to your local radio dealer to see what he can do for you. Forget radioshack.
Also, obviously, you will need to locate your expensive receiver far enough away from your charge, that it can be recovered
intact, unless you are planning a one tim e "cost is no object" hit.
I don't know what the professionals use, but I would rather put my faith (and m oney) into a long piece of visco, or cheap spool
of wire.
Flake2m Novem ber 4th, 2003, 12:49 PM

If th is wasn't in the water cooler you would have been banned. :rolleyes:
My advice, le arn to crawl before you can walk. You have just m a d e A P f o r t h e f i r s t t i m e , m a s t e r A P s y n t h s a n d A P b a s e d
charges befo re you get into m ore complex aspects of Explosives & pyro technics.
R e m o t e d e t o n a t i o n s y s t e m s c a n b e q u i t e c o m plex and tim e c o n s u m ing, not to m e n t i o n e x p e n s i v e f o r e v e n t h e m o s t

experienced pyro. I would stick to using electrical detonation or fuses for the tim e b e i n g .
As for AP, we ll it is very sensitive and quite unstable, treat it with respect and use comm o n s e n s e a n d y o u ' l l r e m a i n a m e m b e r
of the 10 dig its club. It doesn't take m uch to set it off, to dem onstrate place a few grains of it on a flat surface and hit it with a
h a m mer - it'll go off with a sharp crack . Lots of info on AP can be found by doing a search.
Anthony Novem ber 4th, 2003, 01:51 PM

One obvious point is that there is no d efined power required to set off an AP cap.
The power you will require will be however m uch it takes to heat up your bridgewire in the cap to at least the ignition point of
AP. This will vary greatly depending on m aterial type, th ickness, length of bridgewire etc etc.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Skin W ind ows!
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The A LL-MIGHTY Novem ber 4th, 2003, 10:47 PM

I don't know how m any of you know of this program, bu t for those of your that don't you missing a lot. The re's this program
out there called W indowBlinds ( www.windowblinds.net ), and I have to say it rocks! I'm not advertising this or anything just
passing on the word. With this thing you can download I think 2000+ skins for windows. W hen I say "skins", I m ean it skins
your window and your start m enu, and even if you want too I think they have a program where you can m ake your own skins.
Just look at the scree n shots! It cost 20$, which isn't that bad for what this thing does. My god I thing this program rocks...
chemwarrior Novem ber 5th, 2003, 12:50 AM

This is pointless... no one is going to waste their m o n e y o n s o m ething as non-useful as that, unless they are looking to pawn
it off to som e other idiot for m ore than they bo ught it for...
T h e p r o g r a m doesnt do anything. Its not work 20 bucks... hell, its not worth 2 bucks.
T_Pyro Novem ber 5th, 2003, 07:16 AM

Not really. Developing utterly useless software is a great way to fight back unemployment.;)
Besides, these are the kind of software that are the best candidates for "reverse engineering", (if you know what I mean), so
that you can find out exactly how good y o u a r e a t a s s e m b l y l a n g u a g e !
Anthony Novem ber 5th, 2003, 02:20 PM

I wouldn't install it if it was free, probably not even if I was paid.
megalomania Novem ber 6th, 2003, 12:37 AM

I h a d this program s o m e m o n t h s b a c k , and it was goo d for a while until the novelty wore of f . T h e d a m n thing was so b u g g y
that it crashed half th e tim e. It really sucks down the ol system resources I suppose. I used a warez copy, and it wa s worth
e v e r y p e n n y ; ) I d o n t use it any m o r e .
wrench352 Novem ber 6th, 2003, 01:29 PM

T h e p r o g r a m is a great concept,but it is a shitty program,I have a state of the art m a c h i n e a n d i t b o g g e d d own terribly and
crashed often,didnt stay on m y m achine for a day
Spudkilla Novem ber 6th, 2003, 07:53 PM

Ha. W indowBlinds is pretty m uch useless unless you are LAN gamer and want to im press all your buddies. If you really wanted
to do something with Windows, you would install and customize your own shelled based account, like I did. For me, I have no
m ore Windows GUI or interface. I don't think I'd even have to use PGP to make my computer unaccesible for the piggies :D ;)
I will include a screenshot if anybody is interested in seeing m y d e s k t o p .
IDTB Novem ber 6th, 2003, 09:45 PM

I'd love to ta ke a look at it, Spudkilla. :)
vulture Novem ber 7th, 2003, 04:54 PM

Look, everyo ne knows GUIs (Graphical User Interfaces) pretty m uch killed the usefullness of computers. NASA flew several m e n
to the m o o n o n t h e c o m puting power of a 486, do you think that's still possible with a P4 W intel m a c h i n e ? ?
S o , a p p l y i n g a n o t h e r G U I o n a n O S (that's right! A big scary O S! Run! :eek: ) GUI is just asking for too much trouble!
Spudkilla Novem ber 7th, 2003, 08:10 PM

My desktop, picture o ne (http://www.angelfire.com / a l t 2 / c o u n t m i n u s o / d e s k 1 . j p g ) . ( 6 2 3 k )
My desktop, picture two (http://www.an gelfire.com /alt2/countm in u s o / d e s k 2 . j p g ) . ( 6 0 9 k )
Sorry for the large image sizes, I wanted you to have the full feel of it. The second picture shows the comm a n d b a r h i d d e n .
Vulture, my computer has been fine with the modifications I have done with it, an d I h a v e e n c o u n t e r e d n o p r o b l e m s.
xyz Novem ber 7th, 2003, 11:18 PM

A n g e l f i r e h a v e d e l e t e d t h e i m a g e s ( b e fore anyone asks, yes, I have tried copying and pasting the link).
U p l o a d t h e m to the FTP.

Look, everyo ne knows GUIs (Graphical User Interfaces) pretty m uch killed the usefullness of computers.
Isn't that too m u c h o f a n e x a g g e r a t i o n ? I m e a n , i m a g i n e u s i n g p h o t o s h o p / p a g e m a k e r / C a k e w a l k e t c . o n a c o m m a n d - l i n e

interface!
I f I r e m e m ber correctly, even the Hubble Space Telesco p e u s e s a n o n - b o a r d c o m puter based on the 486, but such com puters
cannot be com pared with a no rm a l d e s k t o p P C . C o m p u t ers us ed i n t he s pa c e pro gra m have specific program s store d in them,
which perform several pre-defined tasks on-dem and, or repetitively. The hardware being used is specific, so there a re no driver
hassles.
Such an architecture is worlds apart from the norm a l d e s k t o p P C , w h e r e t h e O S h a s t o h a v e a n a r r a y o f d r i v e r s t o m a n a g e t h e
different types of hardware be n e a t h i t , a n d a t t h e s a m e tim e provide a standard API which a plethora of ap plications can
utilize. Making the OS com patible with a few thousand-odd types of hardware, as well as p roviding a standardised API for the
program s i s n o m e a n feat, as is evident from the performance hit to a desktop PC loaded with the latest O S.
I don't m ean to be offensive, but how many of you out there, who have stated the disadvantages of a GUI, still use a GUI? If
GUI's have k illed the usefulness of com puters, why do you still hang on to them? Go ahead, revert back to surfing the net with
the com m a n d p r o m pt!
vulture Novem ber 8th, 2003, 07:28 AM

Ofcourse I'm using a GUI...
You guys really have a hard tim e identifying humerous rants from angry rants...:confused:
Anyways, I use the dos com mand line alot. Beats the heck out of all those crappy config tools in windows. IP address renewal
for example....
HORNYwithP ANDA S Novem ber 10th, 2003, 06:09 PM

I had this program fo r a while and it turned out to be a dissapointment. My m ajor issure with it was that there was very few
skins which I liked. This is pre tty sad considering they h a v e o v e r 2 0 0 0 . I t a l s o s e e m s to be a com lpete waste of space.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > drugs
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grandyOse November 5th, 2003, 12:53 PM

Does anyone know if there is a forum of this quality for the synthesis, extraction, and isolation of drugs? I've seen a few archived threads on hive, rhodium, etc. and I've found
a couple of active kewl sites, but nothing of this quality.
One of my projects could be considered appropriate for battlefield chemisty, but at this stage I seem to have more questions than useful information.

The Hive is the best forum for the synthesis of drugs on the net, and Rhodium's site is, if not the best, at least one of the best online resources on the above subject. And
believe me, the standards on The Hive are in no way inferior to ours, there are some great and experienced chemists over there.

For some reason my link to the hive would never work. All I ever found was bits and pieces of archived threads. But JUST NOW I've found the main board. I swear I'm not
making this up. I've searched and linked many times in the past. Maybe my recent cleanup of downloaded crap has fixed the problem. Thanks for your response.
Kid Orgo November 5th, 2003, 05:13 PM

Erowid.org has good info too.
Cricket November 5th, 2003, 05:58 PM

Yes, definatly The Hive. It is in many ways simular to The Forum. They have their own precursors that may be useless to us but honey to them. And we may hunt stuff to the
ends of the Earth that is useless to them. And we have simular precursors like NM, Mercury, Hexamine, all the basic lab stuff like solvents and acids, ect. And they have their
own little this and that to help them do an extract of E, like we have our personal methods of making crackers or NA. Also, one other good site is lycaeum.org. Good times.
Nehebkhau November 8th, 2003, 12:25 AM

I did a quick search on google for "The Hive" and it didn't find anything that resembles what ur talking about. Could you please post a link for the site?
chemwarrior November 8th, 2003, 01:46 AM

UTFSE !!!:mad: :rolleyes:
It is easily located at the top of the page... EVERY PAGE.
If you look up " the +hive" on dogpile, its the 6th site down so dont give us the bullshit that you couldnt find it.And using the "the hive" on google, you find the site at number
6 again.
So stop asking others to find things for you and do it your damn self.
And another thing... dont use fucking abreviatons such as "ur". It doesnt even take 2 seconds longer to compose it properly and say "your".:mad:
Edit- Sorry guys, Im calm again *breaths deeply* just the damn kewls everywhere these days....
Rhadon November 8th, 2003, 09:11 AM

@Nehebkhau: I had a look at your posts and saw that you're regularly asking for things which you could easily have found out if it had been worth ten seconds for you. But it
seems to be more comfortable to ask others than doing it yourself. You should work on that...
Nehebkhau November 8th, 2003, 11:06 AM

i thrive on being a "kewl." apparently "u" thrive on being an idiot
Edit- Sorry everyone I'm much calmer now that I've cleared this up with my therapist.
Cyclonite November 8th, 2003, 11:10 AM

I guess we will have to thirve in the fact that you wont be here too much longer..
Rhadon November 8th, 2003, 11:27 AM

Nehebkhau is banned for disrespect of staff. Even if he didn't want to address me with it, he deserves it just as well. And I bothered to kindly tell him to work on his behaviour
:mad:.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Shimizu's Fireworks, The Art,
Science & Technique
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Bert Novem ber 7th, 2003, 06:14 PM

If anyone wa nts a copy, there's an auction for 10 (new in shrink wrap) copies of the latest edition available on e-bay.
Shim izu's FAST (http://cgi.ebay.com /ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1114&item = 3 5 6 3 1 5 1 3 5 8 )
(No, I'm not the selle r, just thought so me of you all might want one)
chemwarrior Novem ber 7th, 2003, 06:58 PM

Arrrgh!! Damnit, Im n ot working currently and d ont have the m oney! and the book actually looks rather good... *hint hint* if
s o m eone was willing to buy and scan that book .... *hint hint*
Rhadon Novem ber 7th, 2003, 08:19 PM

T h e b o o k i s a l r e a d y b e i n g s c a n n e d a n d a l m o s t d o n e . H a v e a l o o k a t t h e U r b a n s k i t h r e a d f o r m ore details.

Eagerly awaiting a chance to g et a look at Urbanski...
Thanks, all of you who've put time into that!

From t h e s a m e s e l l e r :
Dupont Blaster's Handbook, 14th edition (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &category=11437&item = 3 5 6 3 6 9 4 7 7 1 )
I've got a slightly later edition - this would be of interest to m ost here.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > PGP Disk- More than 1
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peterthesmart Novem ber 8th, 2003, 08:29 PM

D o e s a n y o n e k n o w h o w t o a s s i g n a P G P d i s k m ore than 1 password, each leading to a different section of the file? This would
b e u s e f u l s i n ce 1 password wo uld lead to "norm al files" or things related to banking that you wouldnt want other people to get
their hands on. The other password wo uld lead to inform ation on explosives and such, which could be incrim inating to yourself.
This could be useful in fooling p e o p l e y o u h a v e n o t h i n g t o h i d e .

I don't think that this is possible. The way I solve that problem is to crea te several PGPdisks which works fine. Perhaps you
could even set the sa me drive letter for all of them so it would p retty much be like what you wanted to do. As long as you do
only m o u n t o n e o f t h e m at a tim e this should work fine.
Jacks Complete Novem ber 16th, 2003, 07:17 PM

peterthesmart,
That would be a great trick, sadly, PGP won't do it.
T h e r e a r e o t h e r p r o g r a m m es that let you do things like this, (called "stenography") and it lets you hide text inside a picture,
for example. Obviously, hiding a 200k pyro text inside a 2K gif isn't sma rt, but you know...
Anyway, have a look around.
Ideally, you would be able to hide it in a load of different ways, so that two different keys would sh ow the different things you
want to hide. I could see a way to do it with something like text files, but since most thing s these days are videos, pdfs or jpg
im ages, they are alre ady quite well com pressed, and anything else you wanted to encrypt (Finance info, for exam ple) would be
i n s o m ething bloaty like Excel or M$ W ord, so would compress down tiny. Since m ost encryption systems co mpress as well, you
would get caught when the investigators looked at the 20Gb partition, and realised that ten Gb was m issing !
Of course, if you wrote it just right, it would "hide" that part of the listing, and if they scanned the physical disk, well, what is
the difference betwee n nothing, and random bits, and encrypted data? A file, it would be obvious. O n an encrypted disk
partition, nothing! On the disk partition the size never changes!
Sadly, though, this is beyond (way beyond) my program ming skill!
If you do find anything like I discribe, please tell the forum, as I'd buy that for a dollar!
James Novem ber 21st, 2003 , 02:10 AM

P G P D i s k m ight not handle it correclty, but any RFC com p l i a n t o p e n P G P p r o g r a m shouldn't even blink. Moun ting it as a
filesystem could be tricky. Boring tech. details, openPGP files are made up of chunks. the chunks contain usefull bits of
i n f o r m a t i o n . F o r e x a m p l e a m e s s a g e f r o m Bob to Alice, would contain a symetric key encrypted m e s s a g e c h u n k , a n d a c h u n k
containing th e symetric key encyted by asym etric key(s). A PGPdisk variant would work, if you could get it.
Darkbloodpriest Novem ber 22nd, 2003, 06:57 AM

I swear to all that is holy(and som e that isn't)...
IF I HAVE TO EXPLAIN STEGANO GRAPHY ONE MORE TIME.... :D
*sigh*
HEY! If som eone wants hidden files that are en crypted
check out encrypted magic folders at www.pc-magic.com
Not sure on the strength of the current encryption thoug h...
I'm sure it would be good eno ugh for anything short of m issile codes...
jelly D e c e m ber 3rd, 2003, 11:31 PM

peterthesmart:
I highly recom m e n d B e s t C rypt 7.x. It's one of the best encryption progra m s a n d
has exactly the feature you are looking for!
..."BestCrypt v.7 also allows the creation of hidden containers - containers not
evident to an intruder. You can sim ply create another (hidden) container inside
already existing (shell) container. Data stored inside shell and h idden containers can
be com pletely different, passwords for the containers are also different, and it is not
possible to d etermine whether the shell container has a hidden container inside it, or
not. Version 7 help documentation con tains detailed information on the creation and
m anagement of hidden containers...".
BestCrypt Ho mepage: http://www.jetico.com /index.htm #/bcrypt7 .htm
Jacks Complete D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 10:00 AM

Is it on the FTP?
I really don't want to blow any m ore money this m onth.
Are you using BestCrypt, then? Is it as good as the site says?
jelly D e c e m ber 4th, 2003, 01:50 PM

For m e it's the best p rogram of this so rt. I have been using it fo r many years... without any problem s!
Note that it's an european pro duct. There's no NSA backdoor in it :)
Download the evaluation version of BestCrypt a nd try it out. If you don't want to pay
for the program you can find cracked or serialized versions on eDonkey or sim ilar P2P networks.
But it's worth the m o n e y ; )
"..... Fully functional versions for evaluation purposes will function for 30 days from
the date of installatio n. A Help-file is included. At the end of the trial period all
containers become accessible in read-only m ode, so you will only be able to read your data.
After purchase registration is sim ple - we will email you a serial num ber which you enter
in the registration area in the Help Menu and previously created containe rs will
o n c e a g a i n b e fully accessible. Your data is always safe and accessible....."

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > silver and coper
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satan31337 Novem ber 8th, 2003, 10:38 PM

silver and coper have the highest threm al and electrical conductivity of "com m on" m etals...iam sure thers some crazy alloys
that i have yet to see ...silver being the higher of the 2...thought ide pass on this info
xyz Novem ber 8th, 2003, 10:39 PM

You should be REALLY glad that NBK isn't here to see this... :rolleyes:
Anath Novem ber 8th, 2003, 11:13 PM

In other news,.. The sky is blue, and fire is hot.
Seriously, wh at's with all the stupid questions today? Do e s m u m m y only let the kewls play with the computer on Saturday or
s o m ething? sheesh.

S a t a n 3 1 3 3 7 , y o u r p o s t d o e s n ' t g e t y o u b a n n e d b e c a u s e y o u p o s t e d i n t h e W ater Cooler. But please enhance the content of
your posts when doing it again.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Howdy All New to Forum
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Howdy everyone. Clearly I am new to the board and just wanted to say what a great resource this place is. My main interests
are firearm related as well as sm a l l d e f e n s i v e e x p l o s i v e s.
I h a v e r e a d i n m any other threads that there is a FTP here. I ha ve quite a few files that I would upload if this is possible-
including AK receiver template s, 1911 FAuto conversion- 10/22 conversion, SKS conversion, AK22 conversion- scratch built AR-
15 receiver, etc....
Anyway, thanks and I hope I can m ake a useful contribution to this site.
grandyOse Novem ber 9th, 2003, 12:20 AM

re SKS conve rsion. The m o s t c o m m o n m e t h o d i s t o i n s e r t a c u t a n d b e n t u p p i e c e o f s h e e t steel into the trigger gro up. A piece
m illed out of solid steel is much better. I know a guy who did this, and I can prob ably get the mechanical d rawing from him .
The instructions are available all over the net; just make the said piece out of a block of steel, rather than trying to bend
s o m e flimsy sheet into shape. This guy only used a reciprocating saw (or hacksaw), a bench grinder and so m e f i l e s a n d e m ery.
He said it took quite a while, but the end result was sup urb. My CuteFTP is tempo rarily lost, but I could em ail the .bm p s o
s o m e o n e t o u p l o a d . R O CK AND RO LL IS HERE TO STAY!.

Yes- i have the plans for the SKS autosear- they are in dwg form at though. I just read the FTP thread, too, so I guess it will be
awhile before I can upload/ download anything.
chemwarrior Novem ber 9th, 2003, 01:23 AM

Read the first post in the FTP thread, as it specifically says you do NOT n e e d a n a c c o u n t t o u p l o a d .

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Pharm acy drug ind e x
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thrall Novem ber 9th, 2003, 06:01 AM

I know I'm a n e w b i e a n d I ' m n o t s u p p o s e d t o p o s t n e w t h r e a d b ut this is water cooler and this MY territory.
This is the site found a long a go but didn't post.I thoug ht this would be there in THE FO RUM.but I didn't fin d this on searching
the forum .
the site is
http://www.m ythos.com /pharm acy/Index_GenericNam e.aspx?L=H&P=1
It can be searched through generic nam e s a n d y o u c a n f i n d a d r u g n a m e that contains chem ical you are after.Though the
m ost expensive way fo getting chem icals but the way to get purest chemicals.(If one wants to cook drugs ;) ).
G o d s m a y f i n d s o m e more useful rare precurso rs.
I got my PET N(8 grm s . g o o d e n o u g h t o m a k e 4 d e t o n a t o r s t h o u gh opening lots of capsules is not an enjoyable job ) through
this.One can get ETN as well.Being most expensive way and one doesn't get the thrill of Synthasising his explosives, but ma y
c o m e h a n d y i f y o u w a n t t o d o s o m e t h i n g G O O D(I don't want to do som e t h i n g G O O D but for those who want to ;)).
mikey Novem ber 11th, 2003, 03:48 PM

thrall great website well done, but i'm puzzled, how did you mangae to get petn? As all the the stated drugs contain g a
Pentaerythritol Tetranitrate require a prescription to obtain them and did the petn need any further refining before use?
thrall Novem ber 11th, 2003, 05:09 PM

Yes, prescription drugs m a y b e a p r o b l e m . Y e t I h a v e a f r i e n d o f m i n e w h o runs a medical shop ;).
I d o n ' t r e m e m ber exactly but what I used were the capsules that contained the powder.Right now I'm away from m y place
anyway if onr uses tablets PETN can be taken o ut by cru shing an d churning the tablets in acetone and then throw it in cold
water? Or so I suppose.
Y e t I F s o m e o n e h a s a c c e s s t o the pharm acy drugs(non prescription and prescription) then apprently one can get a lot of
chemicals.I started searching after I got idea from one of the replies in PE procurem ent that in France it com e s i n a l u x a t i v e s o
I started sea rching and found this.
There are surprising things like straigh t PETN,ETN,haxamine(sea rch m a t h a n a m i n e ) a n d o t h e r e x p l o s i v e p r e cursers(explosives).

T h e r e ' s s o m any ways to get precursors like hexam ine (that's th e way we spell it) or m e t h e n a m ine that it h urts to even think
of buying them in the form of prescription drugs! If I bought pre scription drugs it certainly wouldn't be precursors for explosives
b e c a u s e t h e y a r e s o e x p e n s i v e . B e t t e r i n v e s t s o m e m ore tim e into a search and find out where to get your precursors for a
fraction of the price you would need to pay.
I'll close this thread now because even if this m ethod was practical it still wouldn't work for most pe ople since they don't have
acquaintance in m e d i c a l s h o p s .
If someone thinks otherwise he's free to re-open it.
And in our next episo de: How to make silver fu lm inate from an olympic silver medal :D.

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Knowledge and Information > The Water Cooler > War on information?
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Wild Catmage November 10th, 2003, 06:35 AM

After reading through the news on teletext (UK TV based text news) I noticed that the law has screwed over an Algerian guy for possessing information likely to be of use to
terrorists. Sure, he's Algerian and probably a terrorist :D , but what happened to free speech and my right to read what I want? What happened to my right to privacy and
protection of that privacy by law? Freedom of thought, conscience, and religion?
Freedom of opinion and expression?
***End whining rant***
I found related articles on the web:
A police spokesman earlier said the man was being questioned about "possessing information likely to be of use to terrorists". "It does show that Northern Ireland is not exempt
from an international terrorist dimension," Orde said. "What we've proved by this arrest and this dimension is that we are determined to fight terrorism at every level, not just
local terrorism."
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=6166
There's also an article on the Guardian's page at http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,2763,1078803,00.html
I guess I'll be needing a good lawyer, for when the pigs kick in my door at four in the morning and haul my ass off to the cop shop.

can' find the quote text button "but what happened to free speech and my right to read what I want? What happened to my right to privacy and protection of that privacy by
law? Freedom of thought, conscience, and religion?
Freedom of opinion and expression? "
I didn't even know limeys were supposed to have any rights. Here in the land of the free, they have criminalized emotions, hence the hate-crimes laws. I guess if you murder
someone out of love, you get rewarded? Of course possession of substances and objects has long been illigal. It won't be long until information is illigal, then the thought police
will come a'knockin'.
ah, the inevitable slide into tyrany once complacency sets in. It is now a couple of generations too late to take back this country, and it's the last one, too. Too bad, world; you
had a chance and you fucked it off.
Australia really went in the shitter when the people turned in their firearms. Now it's our turn, amerika. Time to join the rest of the world in poverty and slavery.
zeocrash November 10th, 2003, 02:42 PM

yeah us brits are actually not garenteed(sp??) any freedom of speech, unlike the US where it's a constitutional right, as demonstrated in the recent injunction placed on the
newspapers about prince charlie's homosexual activities.

You probably are already aware of this, and it is easier to use the word, "gaurantee" (I can't spell it either). But our constitution does not gaurantee rights to individuals. The
fist ten ammendments (the Bill of Rights) to our constitution are an admission by the government that the people (individuals and groups) have certain rights granted by God
by simply existing as humans. It also admonishes government not to usurp those God given rights. The second amendment suggests our only means of gauranteeing our own
liberty.
I will stop being a soap-box whore at this time. thank you.

To a certain extent I would imagine they wouldnt care too much about people like us, if we were arabic or northern irish then theyd lock us up for knowledge, but they have no
reason to suspect we would use it against others.
chemistr1 November 10th, 2003, 08:04 PM

FolKs,
Dont be nieave, everyone that is registered in forums like this is logged and traced and then placed on a list somewhere. Thats democracy lol. The goverments know that some
of its citizens have the study or practice of pyro subjects as a hobby. They will let us be up until we get a Michael Ryan type situation ( for foriegn members, he was a nut that
was legally registered as a firearms holder that went on a rampage and killed about 13 people and toatally screwed up UK gun laws) with homemade pyro methods, before
coming for all of us. We are all on an easy to collect target list to prove to all the worried citizens that the gverment is on top of things when something goes wrong.This isnt
paranoia I was questioned 15 years ago by the AT branch Scotland Yard (for something I never did) and I am still on the list, my mate is in the security forces in NI and a few
years ago I was going to visit but when he did a security check on me for base entry permits it came up as flagged as a PT. Which I guess means potential terrorist. Needless
to say I wasnt going to get no base pass. Yet Osama is still at loose?:confused:
Wild Catmage November 11th, 2003, 05:53 AM

Some bastard vandalsed my city's war memorial :mad:
There's now several silhouettes of an ape wearing an apron on it. This has really pissed me off, especially as it was on Rememberence day.
Oh well, shit happens and there's not much I can do to change it.
Nevermore November 11th, 2003, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by chemistr1
FolKs,
.This isnt paranoia I was questioned 15 years ago by the AT branch Scotland Yard (for something I never did) and I am still on the list, my mate is in the security forces in NI
and a few years ago I was going to visit but when he did a security check on me for base entry permits it came up as flagged as a PT. Which I guess means potential terrorist.
Needless to say I wasnt going to get no base pass. Yet Osama is still at loose?:confused:
well i agree with you, we are all on the list, the paranoia of the government is controlling everything everyone in every moment.. remembers me orwell's 1984, we will soon
end up like that.is a pity they spend so much forces to do stupid things like tracking all the forumites, instead of fighting the crime..
tmp November 22nd, 2003, 08:43 PM

If we are to regain our civil rights, we have to get the liberals voted out of office.
They are the enemies of the CONSTITUTION, not the defenders they claim to be.
In fact, this is what liberals want: control of the masses, disarmed crime victims,
dependence on government, police states, create special rights for society's
bottom-feeders who commit crimes to support their existence or fantasies.
The liberals, of course, invoke the BILL OF RIGHTS in the CONSTITUTION to
save the bottom-feeders from imprisonment and execution when society wants
it as justice for their crimes.
The liberals don't give a shit about the rest of us until election time, and then they
try to get our votes by claiming to be a man/woman "of the people". After the
election its back to the same punitive taxation and regulation used to control us
and to buy votes from the bottom-feeders by giving our tax money to those assholes.
EDIT: Anthony, you're right. I can't blame one group for all of these problems.
THE PATRIOT ACT OF 2001 is a good example where conservatives acted badly.
However, from personal experience, I can blame liberals for most problems.
Blackhawk November 22nd, 2003, 11:49 PM

"Some bastard vandalsed my city's war memorial
There's now several silhouettes of an ape wearing an apron on it. This has really pissed me off, especially as it was on Rememberence day."
Heh, that sucks, wild catmage, most of what is sprayed on stuff is pure crap, what the hell is the point of spraying an ape with an apron, if you wan't to annoy people at least
do it saying something worthwhile, and in tune with the times. One good piece of grafiti I have been told about was in Northan Ireland, saying
"Is there life before death"
Which I thought was quite good, especially in tune with the conflict going on there.
ronald November 23rd, 2003, 05:28 AM

1) An Algerian should have no rights in UK or whatever european nation, sadly, they have.
2) Ive heard that the lack of freedom of speech is a more bigger problem in the US than UK
3) Banning an article discussing about Prince Charles homosexuality is not a matter of no freedom of speech, but a matter of good freedom of not getting lynched by some
shitty yellow newspaper that only idiots read. I think its better to have some kind of govermental "big brother" knowing what you are doing, than those yellow newspapers.
The sad thing is that they dont need to know anything to publish a story, they think it up.
Anthony November 23rd, 2003, 09:13 AM

tmp, you can't assign all governmental problems to one party - they're all the same, they telll the same lies, they're all as bad.
vulture November 23rd, 2003, 01:44 PM

Anthony, you could have put that MUCH shorter.
Let me show you how it should be done:
Q:Why does the government suck?

A: It consists of politicians.
:p

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > Molotov related chem ical
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0user1 Novem ber 11th, 2003, 06:52 AM

ive searched the forum withou t any result on th is subject, and i know i sh ouldnt m a k e a n e w t h r e a d a s m y first post, but im
desperate
there is a chem ical th e russians used for igniting their m olotovs during W W2 whilst fighting the german tanks (a chem ical
drenched stick taped outside of the bo ttle) now on to th e q u e s t i o n
what is the chem ical or any chem ical that ignite s standa rd petrol and where do i g et i
DBSP Novem ber 11th, 2003, 09:21 AM

Y o u ' v e a b v i o u s l y r e a d t h e r u l e s a n d u n d e r s t o o d t h e m but still post a new topic on first post. NOT g ood. At least you could have
posted it in the water cooler. I m oved it there as I am unshure if this top ic is of any intere st, lacking tim e to do this actually. If
s o m eone lese feels it's bullshit, just ban him and delete both th reads. And I m ean it, just do it if you feel like it.
EDIT: This is fucking bullshit, stupid m e, didn't read it carefully enaugh.
Goner...
Jacks Complete Novem ber 11th, 2003, 10:51 AM

0user1 belched forth: what is the chem ical or any chem ical that ignites standard petrol and where do i get i
Try a match.
Your face, my dog's arse?
Is there a prize for th e d u m best ever question for a site like this? If so, can I nom inate this fool?
knowledgehungry Novem ber 11th, 2003, 01:33 PM

KMnO 4 would work but I really don't think this topic is worth a thread, even in the watercooler.

Closed.

The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Knowledge and Inform ation > T h e W ater Cooler > [un]Offica l Forum Flame Form
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View Full Version : [un]Offical Forum Flame Form
Flake2m Novem ber 12th, 2003, 01:35 AM

I was viewing som e BF1942: DC forums and I came across this: I wish I could take credit for thinking it up, however I have
m odified it a bit so it is more relevant to Rogue science.
Official Forum Flam e

===================================
Dear:
[ ] Clueless Newbie
[ ] Loser
[ ] S p a m m er
[ ] 12 year old
[ ] Dumbass
[ ] Dickhead
[ ] Pervert
[ ] Nerd
[ ] l337 K3w|
[ ] Other: illegal im m igrant
You Are Being Flam e d B e c a u s e

[ ] You posted a Nudity thread (anime or normal).
[ ] You posted a thread that is annoying as all hell just to look at.
[ ] Y o u p o s t e d s o m ething that m a k e s a b s o l u t e ly no sense at all.
[ ] You whine like a b itch.
[ ] Y o u b u m ped a thread from t h e l a s t p a g e .
[ ] You started an off-topic thread.
[ ] You are b eing a parrot
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in.
[ ] You posted false information (or lack thereof).
[ ] Y o u p o s t e d s o m ething totally uninteresting.
[ ] You are p ost whoring
[ ] Y o u p o s t e d a m essage all written in C APS (oR aLtErNaTe CaP s).
[ ] You are raping the English language
[ ] I don't lik e your tone of vo ice.
[ ] You annoyed the m [g]ods
[ ] You forge t to do a search
To Repent, You Must:

[ ] Spend a night with "Bubba" in a 3x3 cell
[ ] Search the forum for the correct answer
[ ] Jum p into a bathtub while holding your mon itor
[ ] Actually post som ething relevant
[ ] Stick a firecracker up your ass
[ ] Apologize to everybody on this foru m
[ ] Go a play on the freeway
[ ] Run with scissors
[ ] Listen to NSYNC and Nikki W ebster for 2 hours
In C losing, I'd like to Say:

[ ] Get a life
[ ] Go to hell
[ ] Your mother m ust've dropped you as a child
[ ] You will never post in this forum a g a i n
[ ] I pity your dog
[ ] You m ust have the mental capacity of an avocardo
[ ] Your balls should be rem oved for what you posted
[ ] Take your crap som ewhere else
[ ] Do us all a favour and jump into so me industrial equipm ent
[ ] Go and crawl back under the rock you cam e f r o m
[ ] Go play Dress-Up Barbie Online
[ ] All of the above
=====================================
T h e i d e a b e h i n d t h i s is to cop y a n d p a s t e t h i s into a re p l y a n d a d d x i n t h e b o x e s t o t h e replies t h a t s u i t b e s t .

W hile this could lead to abuse, I only pointed this out b ecause I think it would wo rk very well to people that have posted
r e a l l y p o o r t h r e a d s . I l l a s k t h e m [ g ] ods t o r e m ove this if they think it s just going t o be m i s u s e d

Neat idea. Hope it doesn't get it's first use here! ;)
This thread might be the right place to say som e other stuff that has been occupying m y tiny mind these last few days...
I signed up for this forum at once, and waited two weeks to be able to post. Every tim e I p o s t , I a m really worried I might get
HED for som ething I m issed, or whatever. I me an, I want to start a new thread on com p r e s s e d g a s b o m bs, but I am worried
that I m ight get in trouble, an d lose this rather wonderful resource.
So how com e d o s o m any idiots sign up, then wait, then post a lam e new topic and get instantly banned? Do they really not
appreciate the board?
Yet, I worry a little be cause the m ods are slackening off a little in the persecution of som e of the lam ers, which detracts from
the overall aura of the board.
As a suggestion, perhaps we could moderate the first post from a n y o n e ?
Another way m ight be to have a new rating (is it a rating? The "flavour te xt" you get under your na me?) which could be
"Suspect lam er" or something. When set, this would be a Final Warning to improve, or else. The vast m ajority of K3 wls would
be banned instantly, just like now, but if som eone was just getting close to the edge, this would let them , and all th e m o d s ,
know the instant they looked at *any* of their posts, new or old. Then, if they posted a second lame post in another topic, any
other mods would not even need to hesitate to throw them down the waste disposal. After all, they got a warning!
W h a t d o p e o ple think?
Rhadon Novem ber 12th, 2003, 08:40 AM

Yet, I worry a little be cause the m ods are slackening off a little in the persecution of som e of the lam ers, which detracts from
the overall aura of the board. Since wh en have we been slackening? Since Oct. 27th when you registered :rolleyes:? If you'd
like to be banned in order to help saving the overall aura of the forum contact m e instantly and I will fulfil your wish es :p.

Not quite what I m eant!
I was trying to say that there is a fine line... O n t h e o n e s i d e , p e o p l e ( l i k e m yself, I hope) who contribute to the forum and try
to enrich it, but worry that they will get banned for som ething they m issed, or som e stupid com m e n t o r m i s - u n d e r s t a n d i n g .
And the othe r side is the stupid lamer who doesn't care, and will post rub b i s h , a n d m a y n o t g e t b a n n e d .
If th e m ods are too strict, no-one will post unle ss they already h ave posted lots, but if they aren't strict, then lam ers get away
with stuff.
Hence a suggestion for a tag that says "Suspect lam er" :D
And no, please don't ban m e! :o
Rhadon Novem ber 12th, 2003, 11:57 AM

The title under your usernam e d o e s o n l y d e p e n d o n y o u n u m b e r o f p o s t s a n d i s n o t a r a t i n g . I t ' s p o s s i b l e t o m a n u a l l y c h a n g e
it but instead of doing so we could just as well warn them like we do now in certain cases. Additionally, they are m ore likely to
see that they have been warned in a certain thread than noticing their changed title which they will only see after they have
s u b m itted a new post and have a look at it - if they see it at all.
grandyOse Novem ber 12th, 2003, 07:27 PM

I copied this from drugbuyers.com which is a great forum for discussing online pharm acies.
How many fo rum m e m bers does it take to change a lightbulb?
1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed
14 to share sim ilar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs
27 to point o ut spelling/gram m ar errors in posts about changing light bulbs
53 to flame the spell checkers
41 to correct spelling/gram m a r flames
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to con d e m n t h o s e 6 a s a n a l - r e t e n t i v e
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term i s " l a m p "
15 know-it-alls who claim *they* were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct
156 to email the participant's ISPs com plaining that the y are in violation of their "acceptable use p olicy"
109 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum
2 0 3 t o d e m a nd that cross posting to hardware forum , off-topic forum, an d lightbulb forum about changing light bulbs be
stop p e d
1 1 1 t o d e f e n d the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and the refore th e posts *are* relevant to this forum
306 to debate which m ethod of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs
work best for this technique and what brands are faulty
27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs
14 to post th at the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's
3 to post about links they found from the U RL's that are relevan t to this group which m akes light bulbs relevant to this group
33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"
12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy
19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"
4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ
44 to ask what is a "FAQ"
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short tim e a g o ? "
143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs"
1 forum lurker to respond to the origin al post 6 m onths from now and start it all over again
megalomania Novem ber 12th, 2003, 08:50 PM
That list of replies would be funny if it wasn't so true. It happens at every forum I have ever been to, especially newsgroups
:rolleyes:
knowledgehungry Novem ber 13th, 2003, 08:51 AM

I like this idea a lot. Very efficient :).
T_Pyro Novem ber 13th, 2003, 12:32 PM

Apart from the fact th at it takes up way too much of useful space just to get a sim p l e p o i n t h o m e t o t h e o f f e n d e r .
nbk2000 Novem ber 13th, 2003, 05:55 PM

Unless, of co urse, you e-m ail it to the offender instead...multiple copies...10x a day, by 2 0 m embers...for a week...:)
Blackhawk Novem ber 13th, 2003, 11:58 PM

Thats a good idea, then sign them up to email porn....lots of email porn, with the correct am o u n t o f e m ail porn sup plied a
p e r s o n ' s e m ail adress will becom e entirely useless, a hassle if it is a hotm ail account but truely aggrevating if it was a fam ily
acco unt/ISP given/School adress :D
Flake2m Novem ber 14th, 2003, 12:31 AM

T h e i d e a b e h i n d t h e s e i s t o o h u m iliate the offender. It is worth taking up extra space if;
1. They dont do anything stupid like this again
2. The other forum m emeber get a laugh out of it
T h e s e f l a m e f o r m s s h o u l d o n l y n e e d t o b e u s e d s p a r i n g l y , i f t h e y a r e u s e d t o o o f t e n t h e n they wont be funny anym ore.

Sort of like g iving as a prize to the "idiot of the m onth"? Not a bad idea at all!
Wild Catmage Novem ber 14th, 2003, 07:59 AM

I like the form and have already used it, and I am now wondering if I should have used it in this circum stance :

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nbk2000 July 18th, 2002, 09:32 AM

PYRO500 July 18th, 2002, 01:31 PM

Resident Evil July 18th, 2002, 02:11 PM

Tyler_Durden July 18th, 2002, 04:42 PM

frostfire July 18th, 2002, 10:13 PM

PYRO500 July 18th, 2002, 10:27 PM

Tyler_Durden July 19th, 2002, 02:13 AM

PYRO500 July 19th, 2002, 03:54 AM

Energy84 July 19th, 2002, 09:52 AM

nbk2000 July 19th, 2002, 10:41 AM

A few other things I'd do with an obscene amount of money:

Ctrl_C July 19th, 2002, 02:29 PM

Tyler_Durden July 19th, 2002, 02:34 PM

PYRO500 July 19th, 2002, 09:11 PM

frostfire July 19th, 2002, 11:45 PM

PYRO500 July 20th, 2002, 12:29 AM

Ctrl_C July 20th, 2002, 02:15 AM

Tyler_Durden July 20th, 2002, 02:41 AM

Mr Cool July 20th, 2002, 07:33 AM

Sounds like a good idea, pitty us Brits can't help :(.

nbk2000 July 20th, 2002, 09:12 AM

&lt;Heavy Russian Accent&gt;

In other words, what's good for me is good for the Forum. :D

Ctrl_C July 20th, 2002, 01:14 PM

Mick July 20th, 2002, 01:40 PM

so i guess what i am trying to say is check all the details twice.

Spudkilla July 20th, 2002, 04:20 PM

kingspaz July 20th, 2002, 05:43 PM

Tyler_Durden July 21st, 2002, 12:52 AM

How many people will get that far?

Pu239 Stuchtiger July 23rd, 2002, 02:34 AM

nbk2000 July 23rd, 2002, 10:44 AM

Tyler_Durden July 24th, 2002, 02:08 AM

nice idea nbk!

Energy84 July 24th, 2002, 02:32 AM

nbk2000 July 24th, 2002, 08:35 AM

As for the cap picture, here it is:

Is it real, or is it Memorex? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> :D

A-BOMB July 24th, 2002, 10:11 AM

nbk2000 July 24th, 2002, 01:36 PM

Recycling plant would be a good place to look!

A-BOMB July 24th, 2002, 02:24 PM

nbk2000 October 13th, 2002, 08:43 AM

So, anyone get an "M"? I didn't think so.

However, there may still be hope with E-bay. Any takers?

Eliteforum October 13th, 2002, 02:40 PM

chemwarrior October 15th, 2002, 06:07 PM

<Heavy Russian Accent>