Vous êtes sur la page 1sur 62

How to work with

BI Monitoring
Disclaimer

This presentation outlines our general product direction and should not be relied on in
making a purchase decision. This presentation is not subject to your license agreement
or any other agreement with SAP. SAP has no obligation to pursue any course of
business outlined in this presentation or to develop or release any functionality
mentioned in this presentation. This presentation and SAP's strategy and possible future
developments are subject to change and may be changed by SAP at any time for any
reason without notice. This document is provided without a warranty of any kind, either
express or implied, including but not limited to, the implied warranties of
merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, or non-infringement. SAP assumes no
responsibility for errors or omissions in this document, except if such damages were
caused by SAP intentionally or grossly negligent.

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 2


Agenda

This demo introduces the BI Monitoring application and shows how to work with the
below mentioned BI Monitoring applications.

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 3


Introduction - Monitoring for Business Intelligence

SAP Solution Manager

BI Overview Monitor Central system status overview for all


technical components involved in SAP
Business Intelligence Solution
Capability to monitor cross-system
SAP BW process chains and single process
chain steps
Central monitoring of SAP BW queries and
System Monitor templates
Central monitoring of Business Objects
specific jobs and correlation to system
specific metrics
Integration of Business Intelligence specific
alerts in Alert Inbox including Notification
Management, Incident Management, Task
Assignment and forwarding to 3rd party
BI Detail Monitors
2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 4
Introduction Monitored BI scenario and objects

This picture shows a typical BI scenario (between backend systems and end user). Two monitoring levels are provided:
System level monitoring for the involved technical systems
Monitoring of important BI objects (process chains, queries, templates, BO jobs)

SAP Data Backend Systems


Warehouse / Data Sources
Systems
SAP BI Platform Systems e.g. SAP ERP
BO Web Application (SAP BW)
(BusinessObjects Enterprise)
Server Systems

Process Chains

BO Jobs

Info
objects
BOE Web
Reports
Application
Queries /
Templates
End user

Monitored BI objects (process chains, queries and templates in SAP BW system; jobs in BO system)
Monitored systems in BI scenario grouped by BI component type (BW systems, BO server systems, BO web app server systems).
BI monitoring scenario

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 5


SAP BusinessObjects Business Intelligence 4.0
Architectural Overview (simplified)
CRYS XCelsi Live
WEBI Frontends
TAL us Office

HTTP

Web Crystal WEBI Pioneer


.. BO
Services Viewer Viewer Viewer
Web
SAP BusinessObjects Enterprise XI Web Application Java
App.
Platform SDKs Layer

CORBA
Multidim. BO
Crystal WebI
Others Analy. CMS Server
Services Services
Serv. Layer

ODBO, MDX, RFC, ..

SAP Data
BW Sources

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 6


Agenda

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 7


BI Overview Monitor How to Start

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 8


BI Overview Monitor How to Start

2. Start the BI Overview monitor by


choosing Start Embedded or
Start in New Window

1. Select a
scenario...

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 9


BI Overview Monitor Initial View

The overview is grouped by the


BI component types in your scenario

Status of
Total number of the
alerts for the monitored
specific BI BI
component type applications
(BO jobs,
BW process
System Monitoring status (availability, chains and
performance and exceptions) queries and
templates)
2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 10
BI Overview Monitor

The BI Overview Monitor shows at a glance the summary of the current status and
the open alerts of all BI components that are included in your technical scenario.

Alert (summary)
Technical instances status
(worst case)

BI monitored objects status


(summary)

System + host level status


(worst case)

Summary of alerts and status worst case of all systems in the same BI component type
(web app, BO, BW )

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 11


BI Overview Monitor Detail View (BO Web App)

Clicking on a component type in the BI


overview monitor expands the underlying
single systems and technical instances with
their separate alert and status aggregation
per system resp. technical instance

Tomcat example

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 12


BI Overview Monitor Detail View (BO System)

Technical instances
of a BO system

Two BO systems
Tomcat example

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 13


BI Overview Monitor Tabular View

Switch between
Graphical and
Tabular View

Allows
comprehensive
overview for large
number of
instances

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 14


Agenda

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 15


System Monitoring for systems in BI monitoring scenario

This picture shows a typical BI monitoring scenario and the monitored technical objects:
The involved technical systems in a full scope BI monitoring scenario include
BO Web Application Systems (with SP1 only Tomcat is supported for system monitoring). For SP2 SAP J2EE
and WebSphere are planned to follow
BOBJ server systems.
SAP BW systems. Technically the SAP BW systems may consist of a ABAP type system and a SAP J2EE type system
The system monitoring for each involved system has to be setup separately via the system monitoring setup
System monitoring for each system can be viewed via the system monitoring UI or as jump in from the BI monitoring UI
SAP Data
Warehouse
Systems
SAP BI Platform Systems
BO Web Application (SAP BW)
(BusinessObjects Enterprise)
Server Systems

System
System type ABAP
type System or JAVA
ATC type BOBJ (SAP
(Tomcat) J2EE)

With enhancements for Completely BO specific classical ABAP / SAP J2EE


BO web application system monitoring (no BW specifics)

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 16


Agenda

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 17


Example: BO Web Application Systems Monitor

The BO Web Applications System Monitor shows the single BO Web components
that are part of your technical scenario.

Drill down to the system


monitoring application system
hierarchy by clicking on the icon
of a System Monitoring category
you are interested in

Each single instance of a BO Web component is shown including details like


number of alerts, availability status, performance status and exception status. A
direct start of the system monitoring application for each BO Web instance is
provided.

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 18


Example: BO Web Application Systems Monitor

Select a System
Monitoring category you
are interested in, for
example Performance

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 19


Example: BO Web Application Systems Monitor

The performance category


and its subcategories are
shown

In the details section you


can investigate now the
single performance-
relevant metrics

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 20


Example: BO Web Application Systems Monitor
By changing the view category you
can directly switch between the
single categories to Performance

and examine the metric


details

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 21


BI System Monitor BO Web Application metrics

Availability of BOE
InfoView web application
(HTTP ping from SMD agent)

Introscope metric tree

Avg. Response time of


open session action

Exceptions in BI launchpat = InfoView


application or in Query As a Web Service QaaWS calls (Log file scanning via SMD agent)

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 22


System Monitoring for BO Web Application System

Thesystem monitoring for the BO Web Application System provides all general system monitoring capabilities for the
underlying web application system plus specific monitoring for BO web application metrics
Currently the following BO web application specific metrics are provided
Category Availability: regular http ping check for the BO InfoView web application (web UI for BOE). The URL is
defined during managed system setup and stored in the Solution Manager URL framework.
Category Performance: average response time of BO web application frontend calls (Introscope metric)
Category Exceptions: any message of type ERROR in the BO web application log of the InfoView webapp.
More specific ERROR patterns can be customized by the customer based on customer need / experience.

Solution Manager
Introscope EM BO Web Application
Server Systems
Performance
Metrics
Performance
SMD Asb
jj dds

Agent
ds dd

Availability
BOE Web
URL ping
Application

Exceptions SMD
Agent Asb
jj dds
ds dd

Host
Agent

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 23


Agenda

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 24


BO Enterprise System Model

BOE Cluster
BOE node
Technical system
BOE node
BOE Server Process BOE Server Process
Currently no metrics
BOE Server Process BOE Server Process on BO system level
BOE BOE B BOE BOE
Service Service Service Service
BOE BOE BOE BOE
Service Service Service Service BOE nodes are not
BOE Server
modelled but each server
Intelligence Agent
BOE Server process name has the
Intelligence Agent node name as prefix

Softwarecomponent Technical instances A complete list of BOE 4.0 services


and their mapping to
Monitoring templates per Many types of BO server BO server types and SAP BO metric
software component defined processes exit. Different templates can be found here:

on technical instance level types correspond to different


(corresponds to BO server types) BO product instances
BOE 4.0 Services

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 25


Example: BO Server Systems Monitor

BO system wide job


metrics / alerts
Technical BO instances
= BO servers

For scrolling through all BO


instances page by page

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 26


Example: BO Server Systems Monitor

Choose the category that you are


interested in like Availability -

For BO systems each BO


server represents a
technical instance.
Each technical instance
provides its own metrics
and alerts.

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 27


BI System Monitor BO Server Systems metrics
Server Intelligence Agent (SIA)

No BO specific metrics for


performance or availability
(SIA is the BO watchdog and
not monitored itself)
only receiving from Host level

Exception for unexpected BO


server restarts reported in SIA log

For all other BO servers an inactive


metric defintion exists that can be
adapted by customers

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 28


BI System Monitor BO Server Systems metrics
Central Management Server

Avg. Response time of


CMS queries and Logons

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 29


BI System Monitor BO Server Systems metrics
File Repository Server

Avg. Read and Write


response times

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 30


BI System Monitor BO Server Systems metrics
Web Intelligence Processing Server

WebI server memory usage

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 31


System Monitoring for BO Server System

Thesystem monitoring for the BO ServerSystem provides all general system monitoring capabilities for the
underlying operating system plus specific monitoring for BO metrics
Currently the following BO Server specific metrics are provided
Category Availability: BOE Server availability metric from Introscope (collected by BO monitoring service and
offered via JMX)
Category Performance: average response time of BO Server Introscope metric
Category Exceptions: unexpected server stops logged in the SIA (Server Intelligence Agent) log (BO watchdog
server)
More specific ERROR patterns can be customized by the customer based on customer need / experience. An
inactive metric entry is available for BO server type in the SAP template
BO
Solution Manager Server Systems
Introscope EM
Performance
+ Availability Metrics
Performance SMD BO Server
Agent
Asb
jj dds
ds dd
BO Server

Availability

BO Monitoring
Server

JMX

Exceptions SMD Asb


Agent Asb jj dds
jj dds ds dd
ds dd

Host
Agent

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 32


Agenda

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 33


Agenda

This demo shows how to work with the following BI Monitoring applications:

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 34


BO Job Monitor - Starting

In the BI Overview
Monitor choose the BO
Server Systems box

and click then on


the traffic light
section jobs

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 35


BO Job Monitor

The BO Job Monitor


opens in a separate tab

Monitored jobs are For each job you can see the status of
grouped by the BO each monitored metric:
system they belong to
- Not Started on Time
- Out of Time Window
- Duration
- Status

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 36


BO Job Monitor metrics details

Delay in minutes of the last


finished or currently running job run
to the specified threshold timestamp
(today if the timestamp is already
reached or yesterday otherwise) Duration of last Status of the
finished or currently last finished job
running job run in run (= job instance)
Maximum distance in minutes of the last finished or currently
minutes
running job run to the specified threshold time window on the Green if successful
day where the window start timestamp has the closest distance
Red if failed
to the job start time. 0 if the job start tim e is > window start time
and job end resp. current time for running job is < window end
time. See details on next slide.
2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 37
BO Job Monitor out of time window calculation
examples
0 now

J3
yesterday today tomorrow

W1 W2 W3
time
J1 J4
J2

J
J5 6

Daily time window

Job runs

Closest window
Reported metric value

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 38


BO Job Monitor Checking Configured Thresholds

How to check the thresholds of


your technical scenario? Go to
the SAP Solution Manager
Configuration - BI Monitoring.
Choose the job that Choose your technical scenario
you are interested in and go to the step Configure BO
and check the Job Monitor
thresholds

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 39


BO Job Monitor check job details in BO system

Select Navigate to and


then Central
Management Console
(CMC)
For detailed analyis of a
job in the BOE system

and log on

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 40


BO Job Monitor check job details in BO system

Start the Instance


Manager

Enter the selection


criteria for your job of
interest and click the Find
button

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 41


BO Job Monitor check job details in BO system

Right click the job you are


interested in and select Instance
Details to see more details of
this instance.

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 42


BO Job Monitor check job details in BO system

Check the corresponding detail


information for the alert you are
investigating. In our case: check
the error message to find the
reason for the failed status.

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 43


BI Monitoring for BO Jobs

The BI Monitoring for BO Jobs provides the following metrics for the execution of process chains in the Business Objects
system:
Performance:
Duration

Not Started on Time

Availability:
Out of Time Window

Exceptions:
Status

Solution Manager (ABAP stack) Solution Manager (JAVA stack) BO Server system

SMD Agent
Web-Service Agelet e2emai.bobj
Extractor
BOBJMonService
Name = DPC PUSH CORE
Agelet remoteos
External Name=
SystemID=<SOLMAN-SID> BOBJMonServiceVi_
Extended Content=<BO server Document
host name> Type= Consumer Script List Jobs
Proxy
bobjnormal.jar

BO Server

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 44


Agenda

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 45


BW Process Chain Monitor - Starting

In the BI Overview
Monitor choose the BW
Server Systems box

and click then on


the traffic light in the
section Process
Chains

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 46


BW Process Chain Monitor

Monitored process
chains/steps are
grouped by the BW
system they belong to

Monitoring of complete
process chains as well as For each job you can see the status of
single process chain each monitored metric:
steps is supported. - Not Started on Time
- Out of Time Window
As of Solman 7.1 SP1 metrics are calculated - Duration
from all process chain / step runs within the - Status
last 24h worst case values are reported. - Records Processed
As of SP3 each single run may raise an alert . - Data Packages Processed

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 47


BW Process Chain Monitor Starting the Analysis
Transaction

2. Start the BW Analysis


Transaction by choosing
Navigate to -> Analysis
Transaction

1. Mark the BW process


chain you want to
investigate

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 48


BW Process Chain Monitor Analysis with Transaction
RSPC

The analysis transaction


RSPC is started by default
showing the previously
chosen process chain...

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 49


BW Process Chain Monitor Analysis with Service Tool
ST13

Enter transaction here

You can use the SAP


WebGUI session also for
calling other analysis tools
like ST13 (BW-TOOLS)

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 50


BW Process Chain Monitor Analysis with Workload
Monitor ST03N

or ST03N

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 51


BW Process Chain Monitor Starting the Alert Inbox

Open the alert inbox by


clicking on the number of
alerts or the traffic light of
the BW process chain that
you are interested in

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 52


BW Process Chain Monitor Alert Inbox for BI

2. Select the alert group 1. Select the alert that you are interested
that you want to investigate in - for example BW Process Chain
in greater detail Records/Data Packages

3. Choose the Show


Details button

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 53


BW Process Chain Monitor Alert Inbox for BI

Check the details of the specific alert - like


minimum, maximum and last measured
value of the metric

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 54


BI Monitoring for BW Process Chains

The BI Monitoring for Process Chains provides the following metrics for the execution of process chains in the BW
system:
Performance:
Duration

Not Started on Time

Availability:
Out of Time Window

Exceptions:
Status

Records Processed
Data Packages Processed

Solution Manager (ABAP stack) BW system (ABAP stack)

RFC
Extractor ST-PI:
/SDF/E2E_BW_PROCESSCHAINS

Name = DPC PULL CORE


SystemID = <BW-SID>
ST-A/PI:
Extended Content = ST_PI BCC_BW_PC_MONITORING

BW

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 55


Agenda

oIntroduction

oBI Overview Monitor


oSystem Monitor
o BO WebApp Systems
o BO Server Systems
o BW ABAP/Java Systems

oBI Detail Monitors


o BO Job Monitor
o BW Process Chain Monitor
o BW Report Monitor

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 56


BW Reporting Monitor - Starting

In the BI Overview
Monitor choose the BW
Server Systems box

and click then on


the traffic light in the
section Reporting

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 57


BW Reporting Monitor

Monitored queries /
templates are grouped
by the BW system they
belong to

For each BW Query or Template


you can see Average Response
Time in seconds and the alerts

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 58


BW Reporting Monitor Analysis with Workload Monitor
ST03N

1. Mark the BW Query or 2. Start the BW Analysis


Template you want to Transaction by choosing
investigate Navigate to -> Analysis
Transaction

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 59


BW Reporting Monitor Analysis with Workload Monitor
ST03N
1. Transaction ST03N
opens in a SAPGui for
HTML session

2. Choose section
Queries: Bex Web
(ABAP)

3. Check the details of


the query you want to
investigate

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 60


BI Monitoring for BW Queries & Templates

The BI Monitoring for Queries & Templates provides the following metrics for the execution of queries and templates in
the BW system:
Performance:
Average response time of queries
Average response time of templates

Solution Manager (ABAP stack) BW system (ABAP stack)

ST-PI:
Extractor /SDF/E2E_BW_QUERY_TEMPLATES

RFC

Name = DPC PULL CORE


SystemID = <BW-SID> ST-A/PI:
BCC_BW_QT_MONITORING
Extended Content = ST_PI

BW

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 61


2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved

No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any f orm or f or any purpose Business Objects and the Business Objects logo, BusinessObjects, Crystal Reports, Crystal
without the express permission of SA P AG. The information contained herein may be Decisions, Web Intelligence, Xcelsius, and other Business Objects products and services
changed without pr ior notice. mentioned herein as well as their respective logos are trademarks or r egistered trademarks
of Business Objects Software Ltd. Business Objects is an SAP company.
Some s oftware products marketed by SAP AG and its distributors contain proprietary
software c omponents of ot her software vendors. Sybase and Adaptive Server, iAnywhere, Sybase 365, SQ L Anywhere, and other Sybase
products and services mentioned herein as w ell as their respective logos are trademarks or
Microsoft, Windows, E xcel, Outlook, and PowerPoint are r egistered trademarks of Microsoft
registered trademarks of Sybase, Inc. Sybase is an SAP c ompany.
Corporation.
IBM, DB2, DB2 Universal Database, System i, System i5, System p, System p5, System x, All other product and service names mentioned are the t rademarks of their respective
System z, System z10, System z9, z10, z9, iSeries, pSeries, xSeries, zSeries, eServer, companies. Data c ontained in this document serves informational purposes only. National
z/VM, z/OS, i5/OS, S /390, OS /390, OS/400, AS/400, S/390 Parallel Enterprise Server, product specifications may var y.
PowerVM, Power Architecture, POWER6+, POWER6, POWER5+, POWER5, POWER, The information in this document is proprietary to SAP. No part of this document may be
OpenPower, PowerPC, BatchPipes, BladeCenter, System Storage, GPFS, HACMP, reproduced, copied, or transmitted in any f orm or for any purpose without the express prior
RETAIN, DB2 Connect, RACF, Redbooks, OS/2, Parallel Sysplex, MVS/ESA, AIX, written permission of SAP AG.
Intelligent Miner, WebSphere, Netfinity, Tivoli and Informix ar e trademarks or r egistered
This document is a preliminary version and not s ubject to your license agreement or any
trademarks of IBM Co rporation.
other agreement with SAP. This document contains only intended strategies, developments,
Linux is the registered trademark of Linus T orvalds in the U .S. and other countries. and f unctionalities of the SAP product and is not intended to be binding upon SAP to any
particular course of business, product strategy, and/or development. Please note that this
Adobe, the Adobe logo, Acrobat, PostScript, and Reader are ei ther trademarks or
document is subject to change and may be changed by SAP at any time without notice.
registered trademarks of Adobe Systems Incorporated in the United States and/or other
countries. SAP assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in this document. SAP does not
Oracle i s a registered trademark of O racle Corporation. warrant the ac curacy or c ompleteness of t he i nformation, text, graphics, links, or ot her items
contained within this material. This document is provided without a warranty of any kind,
UNIX, X/Open, OSF/1, and Motif are r egistered trademarks of the O pen G roup. either express or implied, including but not limited to the implied warranties of
Citrix, ICA, Program Neighborhood, MetaFrame, WinFrame, V ideoFrame, and MultiWin are merchantability, fitness f or a particular purpose, or non-infringement.
trademarks or r egistered trademarks of C itrix Systems, Inc. SAP shall have no liability for damages of any kind including without limitation direct,
HTML, XML, XHTML and W3C are trademarks or registered trademarks of W 3C, World special, indirect, or consequential damages that may result from t he u se of t hese materials.
Wide Web Consortium, Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This limitation shall not apply in cases of intent or gross negligence.

Java is a registered trademark of Oracle Corporation. The statutory liability for personal injury and defective products is not affected. SAP has no
control over the information that you may access through the u se of h ot links contained in
JavaScript is a registered trademark of Oracle Corporation, used under license for these materials and does not endorse your use of third-party Web pages nor provide any
technology invented and implemented by Netscape. warranty whatsoever relating to third-party Web pages.
SAP, R/3, SAP NetWeaver, Duet, PartnerEdge, ByDesign, SAP BusinessObjects Explorer,
StreamWork, and other SAP products and services mentioned herein as well as their
respective logos are t rademarks or registered trademarks of S AP AG i n Germany and other
countries.

2011 SAP AG. All rights reserved. 62

Vous aimerez peut-être aussi