2/10/2017 CapChannelDesignLateralTorsionalBucklingStructuralengineeringothertechnicaltopicsEngTips

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I'mcurrentlydesigningtherunwaybeamsfora26Toncranewithcolumnsat20'.I'mhavingsignificantdifficultytryingto
determinethebestwaytodesignforlateraltorsionalbuckling.Forthepurposesofthisdiscussion,Iwillbelookingata
W30x116withaC15x33.9CapChannelwithusingallGr50steel.

AccordingtotheDesignGuide7(1993Edition)AppendixATable2The"maximumspanforFb=0.6Fy"is20.69'.After
diggingintoit,thisreferenceusesthegreenbookandusestheequationLb=20,000/(d/Af*Fy)butdoesnotincludethe
equation76bf/sqrt(Fy)(I'mnotsurewhy).Whilethisequationappearssimple,Ifindithardtobelievethatthelateral
torsionalbucklingcriteriaisbasedonlyonthedepthtoareaofsteelratio.

Accordingtoapaperintheengineeringjournalin1996byJeffreyLaman,Lpisdefinedas300Ry/Sqrt(Fy)whichcanbefound
inthebluebook(althoughitsLRFDLpisnotimpactedbyloadfactors)andwouldreducethatLbto16.2'(A22%reduction).
Jeffreygiveshisequationsthatheusesinafortranprogram(theRyheusesisslightlydifferentthantheRyinthe
combinationsectionsinthegreenbook).

IfIweretousetheblackbook(thecodeImostoftenuse),thegoverningsectionwouldbesectionF4(singlysymmetricI
shapedmembers...bentabouttheirmajoraxis).ThisdefinesLb=1.1*rT*sqrt(E/Fy).TherTfoundinthecombinationsections
inthegreenbookforthissectionislistedas4.34".ThiswouldgiveanLb=1.1*4.34*sqrt(29000/50)=9.58'(lessthanhalfof
thedesignguideanda40%reductionfromthebluebook).Theusernoteonpage16.152approximatesrtas"radiusof
gyrationofthecompressionflangeplusonethirdofthecompressionportionoftheweb,inotherwords=Bfc/(sqrt(12*
(1+aw/6)".Ifeelthisbookgivespoordefinitions,butthebestIcantell(usingthechanneldepthasBfcandawas
2*hc*tw/(Atotal/2hc*tw))IgetrT=4.08"(slightlylessthanthe4.34inthegreenbook).

Giventheimportanceandweightofthecrane,Idon'twanttobeunconservativehoweverIwanttobeeconomical.Giventhe
drasticdifferenceinLb,howwouldyouguysproceed?

Lb=20.69'(DesignGuide7)
LB=16.2'(paperinengineeringjournalandonAISCwebsite)
Lb=9.58'(appearsapplicabletotheblackbook)

Sorryit'ssolong.Icaninsertsomecalcsifthatwouldhelp.

Greatpost! Report

Usingthe36005AISCspecifications(whichIthinkistheblackbook)IgetLp=9.8ftandLr=37.3ft.

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Greatpost! Report

That'saboutwhatI'mgettingJAE.Thanksforthereply.

ItjustseemsoddthatAISCpublishedadesignguidein2004withLpover20',butthenliterallythenextyearpublishednew

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2/10/2017 CapChannelDesignLateralTorsionalBucklingStructuralengineeringothertechnicaltopicsEngTips

codesthatcutitinhalf.Istillseealotofpeoplereferringtothedesignguide7forcranegirderdesignwhichissomewhat
scary.

Greatpost! Report

Quote(rharting)
I'mcurrentlydesigningtherunwaybeams...IwillbelookingataW30x116withaC15x33.9CapChannel...

ThatcombinationofW30andC15isacommonchoiceforthebridgebeam,butwhyareyouconsideringitfortherunway
beams?Usually,therunwaybeamsareheavyWsections,withoutacap.

www.SlideRuleEra.net
www.VacuumTubeEra.net

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First,thisdesignisforareplacementofanexistingsectionforarunwaybeamwhichisstartingtofail(theoriginalis
concreteencasedandtheconcreteisshowingpreliminarysignsoffailure).Theoriginaldesignwasmodifiedsomeyearsago
toincludeacapchannelforlateralstabilityandtoincreasethecapacityofthecrane.Iamplanningonmatchingtheas
designedcondition.

Also,I'mnotsureIagreewithyourassessmentthattheW30w/C15isn'tacommonrunwaybeamdesign.Ifyoulookatthe
newerdesignguidesandpapersonrunwaybeamstheyincludeacapchannel.

Greatpost! Report

IbelieveLrshouldbeused(blackbook)tocomparewiththevalueinthegreenbook.Lpisforthemaximumunbracedlength
forfullplastic.ThisissimilartoLrinthegreenbook.

Sorryforthebriefresponse.Iwillelaborate/clarifylater.

Greatpost! Report

IbelievethevalueofLpasdefinedinsectionF47oftheblackbookshouldbecomparabletoLbasdefinedinF12inthe
greenbook.Bothofthemessentiallymaximizetheallowablemomentcapacityandremovedthelateraltorsionalrequirement.

Greatpost! Report

JeffreyLamanandPatrickJohnsonauthoredafourthquarter2010EngineeringJournalpaper("SinglySymmetricCombination
SectionCraneGirderDesignAids")thatincludescapacitytablesperthe2005AISCSpecification.FromTable3ofthatpaper,
Lp=9.61feetandLr=36.5feetforaW30x116+C15x33.9section(F y=50ksi).

Lcfromthe1989AISCSpecification(greenAISCManual)shouldbeapproximatelyequaltoLpfromthe2005AISC
Specification.IwouldexpectthemaximumspanforF b=0.60FytobegreaterthanLcsinceLcisbasedonbeingableto
achieve0.66Fybendingstress.Iwouldnothaveexpectedthedifferencetobeafactoroftwoormore,however.

IbelieveLaman(inhis1996paper)ignoredthe76bf/sqrt(F y)becauseitwillnotgovernwhenyouhavealarge(verywide)
compressionflange.

SinceyourunbracedlengthwillexceedLp,don'tforgetthatyoumaybeabletouseC b>1forsomeaddedeconomy.

Greatpost! Report

Hokie,

thanksforthatreference.ThatisjustwhatIwaslookingfor.toughtoswallow...butjustwhatIwaslookingfor.

JustwantedtomentionthatinLaman'spaperI'mprettysureheusedtheThirdedition(darkbluelrfdbook).Heincludedhis
fortranwhichhasLP=300*Ry/SQRT(fy)whichequatesto1.76ry*sqrt(E/FY).

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2/10/2017 CapChannelDesignLateralTorsionalBucklingStructuralengineeringothertechnicaltopicsEngTips

Iwillprobablyhavefatigueconsiderations(itisforacranethatoperates24/7andisthelifebloodoftheplant.Ifthatcrane
goesdown,theystopproduction.wouldyoustillincludeCbinyourcalculations?Imaybeveryconservative,butItypicallytry
tostayawayfromCbunlessI'minanexistingconditionssituation.

Greatpost! Report

IwouldmostlikelynotuseC b>1forarunwaybeamthatsupportsa"lifeblood"crane.Itprobablymakeslittle,ifany,
differencebutthe1996Lamanpaperwaswrittenaroundthe1993AISCSpecification,whichwasincludedinthesilverAISC
Manual.Thedarkbluemanualincludedthe1999AISCSpecification.

Greatpost! Report

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