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THE LOEB CLASSICAL LIBRARY

EDITED BY
E. CAPPS, PH.D., LL.D. T. E. PAGE, LITT.D.
W. H. D. ROUSE, LITT.D.

PLATO
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WITH As ENGLISH TRAN-1 \, is a

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W. R. M. LA MB, M.A.
SOMETIME FELLOW of Titi NITY COLI.E., *,
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I.ONDON WILLIAM HE INF MANN


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PLATO
WITH AN ENGLISH
TRANSLATION

V
LYSIS SYMPOSIUM GORGIAS

*,
W. R.
s' * "y
M. LAMB,
SOMETIME FELLOW OF
M.A.
TRINITY CoLLEGE,
CAMBRIDGE

LONDON : WILLIAM HE
INEMANN
NEW YORK : G. P. PUTN
AM'S SONS
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Priinted in Great Brita


itain.
PREFACE
THE Greek text in this volume is based on the
recension of Schanz; a certain number of emenda
tions by other scholars have
been adopted, and
these are noted as they occur. -
The introductions are intended merely to prepare
for

the reader the general character and purpose

of
dialogue.
-

each

W. M. LAMB.
R.
'W',

"AH!!

l's

'll
"fills

\\
CONTENTS
-
PAGE
-
SILENUS AS PEDAGOGUE Frontispiece

GENERAL INTRODUCTION ix
LYSIS

SYMPOSIUM 73

GoRGIAs 247

, INDEX 534

vii
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
Plato was born in 427 b.c. of Athenian parents who
could provide him with the best education of the
day, and ample means and leisure throughout his life.
He came to manhood in the dismal close of the
Peloponnesian War, when Aristophanes was at the
height of his success, and Sophocles and Euripides
had produced their last plays. As a boy he doubtless
heard the lectures of Gorgias, Protagoras, and other
sophists, and his early bent seems to have been
towards poetry. But his intelligence was too pro
gressive to rest in the agnostic position on which
the sophistic culture was based. A century before,
Heracleitus had declared knowledge to be impossible,
because the objects of sense are continually changing;
yet now a certain Cratylus was trying to build a
theory of knowledge over the assertion of flux, by
developing some hints let fall by its oracular author
about the truth contained in names. From this
influence Plato passed into contact with Socrates,
whose character and gifts have left a singular impress
on the thought of mankind. This effect is almost
wholly due to Plato's applications and extensions of
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
his master's thought ; since, fortunately for us, the
pupil not only became a teacher in his turn, bul
brought his artistic genius into play, and composed]
the memorials of philosophic talk which we know]
as the Dialogues. Xenophon, Antisthenes, and
Aeschines were other disciples of Socrates who drew]
similar sketches of his teaching : the suggestion
" "
came from the mimes of the Syracusan Sophron,
realistic studies of conversation between ordinary
types of character. As Plato became more engrossed
in the Socratic speculations, this artistic impulse
was strengthened by the desire of recording each
definite stage of thought as a basis for new discussion
and advance.
When Plato was twenty years old, Socrates was
over sixty, and had long been notorious in Athens
for his peculiar kind of sophistry. In the Phaedo he
tells how he tried, in his youth, the current scientific
explanations of the universe, and found them full of
puzzles. He then met with the theory of Anax-
"
agoras, that the cause of everything is mind."
This was more promising : but it led nowhere after
all, since it failed to rise above the conception of
" "
physical energy ; this mind showed no intelligent
aim. Disappointed of an assurance that the universe
works for the best, Socrates betook himself to the
"
plan of making definitions of beautiful," " good,"
"
large," and so on, as qualities observed in the several
classes of beautiful, good and large material things,
and then employing these propositions ^ if they
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
appeared to be sound, for the erection of higher
hypotheses. The point is that he made a new science
out of a recognized theory of
" " "
ideas or forms,"
which had come of reflecting on the quality predicated
when we say
"
this man is good," and which postu
lates some sure reality behind the fleeting objects
" "
of sense. His hypothetical method, familiar to
mathematicians, attains its full reach and significance
in the Republic.
The Pythagoreans who appear in the intimate
scene of the Phaedo were accustomed to the theory
of ideas,and were a fit audience for the highest
reasonings of Socrates on the true nature of life and
the soul. For some years before the master's death
(399 b.c.) Plato, if not a member of their circle, was
"
often a spell-bound hearer of the satyr." But
ordinary Athenians had other views of Socrates, which
varied according to their age and the extent of their
acquaintance with him. Aristophanes' burlesque in
the Clouds (423 b.c.) had left a common impression
not unlike what we have of the King of Laputa. Yet
the young men who had any frequent speech with
him in his later years, while they felt there was

something uncanny about him, found an irresistible


attraction in his simple manner, his humorous insight
into their ways and thoughts, and his fervent elo

quence on the principles of their actions and careers.


He kept no school, and took no fees ; he distrusted
the pretensions of the regular sophists, with whom
he was carelessly confounded ; moreover, he professed

h:, \ ._.... . ..
j

* . /. '.<.-t.fi.
i
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
to have no knowledge himself, except so far as tol
know that he was ignorant. The earliest Dialogues,
such as the Apology, Crito, Euthyphro, Charmides,
Laches, and Lysis, show the manner in which he
performed his ministry. In rousing men, especially
those whose minds were fresh, to the need of knowing
themselves, he promoted the authority of the intellect,
the law of definite individual knowledge, above all
reason of state or tie of party ; and it is not sur
prising that his city, in the effort of recovering her
political strength, decided to hush such an in
convenient voice. He must have foreseen his fate,
but he continued his work undeterred.
Though he seems, in his usual talk, to have
professed no positive doctrine, there were one or
two beliefs which he frequently declared. Virtue,
he said, is knowledge ; for each man's good is his
happiness, and once he knows it clearly, he needs
must choose to ensue it. Further, this knowledge
is innate in our minds, and we only need to have it
"
awakened and exercised by dialectic," or a system
atic course of question and answer. He also be
lieved his mission to be divinely ordained, and
asserted that his own actions were guided at times
"
by the prohibitions of a spiritual sign." He was
capable, as we find in the Symposium, of standing in
rapt meditation at any moment for some time, and
once for as long as twenty-four hours.
It is clear that, if he claimed no comprehensive
theory of existence, and although his ethical reliance
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
on knowledge, if he
never analysed it, leaves him in
a very crude stage of psychology, his logical and
mystical suggestions must have led his favourite
pupils a good way towards a new system of meta
physics. These intimates learnt, as they steeped
their minds in his, and felt the growth of"a unique
affection amid the glow of enlightenment, that
happiness may be elsewhere than in our dealings
with the material world, and that the mind has

prerogatives and duties far above the sphere of civic


life.
After the Heath of Socrates in 399, Plato spent
some twelve years in study and travel. For the
first part of this time he was perhaps at Megara,

where Eucleides, his fellow-student and friend, was

forming a school of dialectic. Here he may have


composed some of the six Dialogues already men
tioned as recording Socrates' activity in Athens.
Towards and probably beyond the end of this period,
in order to present the Socratic method in bolder

conflict with sophistic education, he wrote the


Protagoras, Meno, Euthydemus, and Gorgias. These
works show a much greater command of dramatic
and literary art, and a deeper interest in logic. The
last of them may well be later than 387, the year in

which, after an all but disastrous attempt to better


the mind of Dionysius of Syracuse, he returned to

Athens, and, now forty years of age, founded the


Academy ; where the memory of his master was to
be perpetuated by continuing and expanding the
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
Socratic discussions among the elect of the new
generation. The rivalry of this private college with
the professional school of Isocrates is discernible
in the subject and tone of the Gorgias. Plato
carried on the direction of the Academy till his
death, af eighty-one, in 346 ; save that half-way
through this period (367) he accepted the invitation
of his friend Dion to undertake the instruction of the
younger Dionysius at Syracuse. The elder tyrant
had been annoyed by the Socratic freedom of Plato's
talk : now it was a wayward youth who refused the
yoke of a systematic training. What "that training
was like we see in the Republic, where true political
wisdom is approached by an arduous ascent through
mathematics, logic, and metaphysics. Plato returned,
with less hopes of obtaining the ideal ruler, to make
wonderful conquests in the realm of thought.
The Meno and Gorgias set forth the doctrine that
knowledge of right is latent in our minds : dialectic,
not the rhetoric of the schools, is the means of
eliciting it. The method, as Plato soon perceived,
must be long and difficult : but he felt a mystical
rapture over its certainty, which led him to picture
" forms " as
the immutable existing in a world of
their own. This feeling, and the conviction whence
it springs that knowledge is somehow possible, had
come to the front of his mind when he began to
know Socrates. Two brilliant compositions, the
Cratylus and Symposium, display the strength of the
conviction, and then, the noble fervour of the
XI V
GENERAL INTRODUCTION

feeling. In the latter of


these works, the highest
powers of imaginative sympathy and eloquence are
summoned to unveil the sacred vision of absolute
beauty. The Phaedo turns the logical theory upon
the soul, which is seen to enjoy, when freed from
the body, familiar cognition of the eternal types
of being. Here Orphic dogma lends its aid to the
Socratic search for knowledge, while we behold an
inspiring picture of the philosopher in his hour of
death.
With increasing confidencein himself as the
successor of Socrates, Plato next undertook, in the
Republic, to show the master meeting his own un
satisfied queries on education and politics. We read
now of a
" "
form of good to which all thought and
action aspire, and which, contemplated in itself, will
explain not merely why justice is better than in
justice, but the meaning and aim of everything.
In order that man may be fully understood, we are
" "
to view him writ large in the organization of an
ideal state. The scheme of description opens out
into many subsidiary topics, including three great

proposals already known to Greece, the abolition of


private property, the community of women and
children, and the civic equality of the sexes. But
the central subject is the preparation of the philo

sopher, through a series of ancillary sciences, for


dialectic ;so that, once possessed of the supreme
truth, he may have light for directing his fellow-men.
As in the Phaedo, the spell of mythical revelation is
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
brought to enhance the discourse of reason. The
Phaedrus takes up the subject of rhetoric, to lead us
"
allegorically into the realm of ideas," and thence to
point out a new rhetoric, worthy of the well-trained
dialectician. We get also a glimpse of the philo
sopher's duty of investigating the mutual relations
" "
of the forms to which his study of particular
things has led him.
A closer interest in logical method, appearing
through his delight in imaginative construction, is
one distinctive mark of this middle stage in Plato's
teaching. As he passes to the next two Dialogues,
the Theaetetus and Parmenides, he puts off the
aesthetic rapture, and considers the ideas as cate
gories of thought which require co-ordination. The
discussion of knowledge in the former makes it
evident that the Academy was now the meeting-
place of vigorous minds, some of which were eager
to urge or hear refuted the doctrines they had
learnt from other schools of thought ; while the
arguments are conducted with a critical caution
very different from the brilliant and often hasty
zeal of Socrates. The Parmenides corrects an actual
or possible misconception of the theory of ideas in
the domain of logic, showing perhaps how Aristotle,
now a youthful disciple of Plato, found fault with
'
the theory as he understood it. The forms are
viewed in the light of the necessities of thought :
knowledge is to be attained by a careful practice
which will raise our minds to the vision of all parti
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
culars in their rightly distinguished and connected
classes.
Plato is here at work on his own great problem : -
If what we know is a single permanent law under
which a multitude of things are ranged, what is the
link between the one and the many ? The Sophist
contains some of his ripest thought on this increas
ingly urgent question : his confident advance beyond
Socratic teaching is indicated by the literary form,
which hardly disguises the continuous exposition of
a lecture. We observe an attention to physical
science, the association of soul, motion, and existence,
and the comparative study of being and not-being.
The Poliiicus returns to the topic of state-government,
and carries on the process of acquiring perfect
notions of reality by the classification of things.
" "
Perhaps we should see in the absolute mean
which is posited as the standard of all arts, business,
and conduct, a contribution from Aristotle. The
Phikbus, in dealing with pleasure and knowledge,
dwells further on the correct division and classifica
tion required if
our reason, as it surely must, is to
apprehend truth. The method is becoming more
thorough and more complex, and Plato's hope of
bringing it to completion is more remote. But he is
gaining a clearer insight into the problem of unity
and plurality.
The magnificent myth of the Timaeus, related
by a Pythagorean, describes the structure of the
universe, so as to show how the One manifests
xvii
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
itself asthe Many. We have here the latest
reflections of Plato on space, time, soul, and many
physical matters. In the lengthy treatise of the
Laws, he addresses himself to the final duty of the
philosopher as announced in the Republic : a long
habituation to abstract thought will qualify rather
than disqualify him for the practical regulation of
public and private affairs. Attention is fixed once
more on soul, as the energy of the world and the
vehicle of our sovereign reason.
Thus Plato maintains the fixity of the objects of
knowledge in a great variety of studies, which enlarge
the compass of Socrates' teaching till it embraces
enough material for complete systems of logic and
metaphysics. How far these systems were actually
worked out in the discussions of the Academy we can
only surmise from the Dialogues themselves and
a careful comparison of Aristotle ; whose writings,
however, have come down to us in a much less
perfect state. But it seems probable that, to the
end, Plato was too fertile in thought to rest content
with one authoritative body of doctrine. We may
be able to detect in the Timaeus a tendency to
view numbers as the real principles of things ; and
we may conjecture a late-found interest in the
physical complexion of the world. As a true artist,
with a keen sense of the beauty and stir of life,
Plato had this interest, in a notable degree, through
out : but in speaking of his enthusiasm for science
we must regard him rather as a great inventor of
xviii
GENERAL INTRODUCTION
sciences than as what we should now call a scientist.
This is giving him a splendid name, which few men
have earned. Some of his inventions may be un
realizable, but it is hard to find one that is certainly
futile. There are flaws in his arguments : to state
them clearly and fairly is to win the privilege of
taking part in a discussion at the Academy.
W. R. M. Lamb.

[Note.
Each of the Dialogues is a self-contained whole.
The order in which they have been mentioned in this Introduc
tion is that which agrees best in the main with modern views
of Plato's mental progress, though the succession in some
instances is uncertain.]
BIBLIOGRAPHY

The following give useful accounts of Socratic and


Platonic thought:
Murray,
T. Gomperz: The Greek Thinkers, vols. and iii.

ii.
19015.
The Origin and Growth

of
W. Lutoslawski: Plato's Logic,
Longmans, 1897.
R. Nettleship Philosophic Lectures and Remains. vols.
L.

2
:
Macmillan, 2nd ed., 1901.
D. G. Ritchie: Plato. T. and T. Clark, 1902.
A. Stewart: The Myths Plato. Macmillan, 1905.

of
J.

** ** Plato's Doctrine of Ideas. Clarendon Press,


1909.
Taylor: Plato. Constable, 1911.
E.

A.
Camb,
A. M. Adam Plato: Moral and Political Ideals.
:

Univ. Press, 1913.


H. Jackson: Presocratics, Socrates and the Minor Socratics,
Plato and the Old Academy (Cambridge Companion

to
Greek Studies). Camb. Univ. Press, 1905.
Burnet: Greek Philosophy Thales Plato. Macmillan,
to
J.

1914.

The following are important editions


:

Adam: The Republic. vols. Camb. Univ. Press, 1902.


J.

W. H. Thompson: The Phaedrus. Bell, 1868.


** The Gorgias. Bell, 1871.
>
*

D. Archer-Hind: The Phaedo. Macmillan, 2nd ed., 1894


R.

** 59 The Timaeus. Macmillan, 1888.


Burnet. The Phaedo. Clarendon Press, 1911.
L. J.

Campbell: The Theaetetus. Clarendon Press, 1883.


** The Sophistes and Politicus. Clarendon Press
9

1867.
E. Thompson The Meno. Macmillan, 1901.
S.

xx
LYSIS
INTRODUCTION TO THE LYSIS

IN the Lysis Socrates relates how he was taken by


some young friends into a wrestling-school, where
he finds a large and well-dressed company of youths
ind boys assembled for a sacrificial ceremony in
honour of Hermes. He proceeds to a narrative of
:wo conversations which he had with a handsome
Boy, Lysis, and his friend Menexenus: the first
ine (207-216) is a simple, introductory talk on
the

personal affection,
on of

motives which are surmised


utility,
of

depend sense and therefore on


:0

tnowledge. The second and main discussion (211


friendship
of

!23) deals with the nature and


;

the end left unexplained,


in

ilthough this relation


is

through speculations
of

number
we

are conducted
a

and incidental suggestions are


of

whose method
morals. Mene
of
to

leep interest the student


disputant, Socrates,
as

and seems
if

keen
it

tenus
is
a

on

rapid review
of

in of

lent merely the difficulties


a

ply his questions


he

subject, were anxious


to

swift and summary fashion which would allow the


!

|uick-witted boy follow his thought, but not


to

to

For the moment,


it.

any
at

hallenge
or

correct
of he

young
to

ate, content lead his friend into


is

:
maze analogical reasoning, from which neither
them can find any certain egress. The following
f
an

of

outline the discussion


s

3
INTRODUCTION TO THE LYSIS
213. Instances are given which show that neithei
the loving nor the loved person is necessarily a
"
friend."
214-215. We try the relation of likeness, aj
suggested by the poets, and find (1) that only when
persons are alike in goodness are they friends
and yet (2) that the good have no need of friends.
216. Again, unlikeness seems to lead to friend
ship ; but this explanation is also found to be quit
inadequate.
217-218. Perhaps we may say, on the analogy oi
medicine, that a thing like the human body
which is neither good nor evil in itself, has need oi
good through the presence of evil, which requires a
remedy ; friendship may be this sort of craving foi
good.
219-221. But we must distinguish between thai
which we desire and that for the sake of which we
desire it ; between the end in view and the reason
for pursuing it. We must find some meaning foi
friendship which is higher than the notion of .i
thing desired because of something else (e.g. evil).
222. Again, is friendship a desire of something
that belongs to one by a natural affinity ? But this
only brings us back to the difficulties about likeness
and the good, and we attain no solution of the main
question.
The result is not positively instructive or helpful,
except that we learn how large and morally im
portant is the question that we have been discussing,
and are so far prepared for the splendid revelations
of the Pkaedrus and Symposium, and for the careful
reasoning of Aristotle's Ethics. It is characteristic
of Socrates that he takes the prevalent and acceptec
INTRODUCTION TO THE LYSIS

>gue of strong attachments between young


thenians of his later days as a means of arousing
terest in moral speculation ; and although here
id there, as we shall observe, he hastens on to
lis main object with insufficient attention to strict
gic, his educational method is brilliantly illustrated
id recommended by the art of Plato. Indeed one
light say that, in one aspect of the dialogue, the
ere tone of Socrates towards the boys is itself a
sson in friendship.
[h nEPI *IAIA2" MAIETTIK02]

ta tot AiAAoror npozsinA


2X1KPATH2, mriO0AAH2, KTH2inn02, MENEEEN02,
AT2I2

atl\ 'Eiropevofirjv fiev e 'A/caS^/id'as eiidv AvkcIov


rr\v egai rei^ouj vtt avro to rei^os- eneiorj o
iyev6fj.r]v Kara, rrjv TrvXiSa fj 77 Uavoiros Kprjvr],
hnavda awervxov 'iTrnoddXei re rut 'lepatvvfiov Kal
KrvjaiTTTrq) rut HaiavieZ Kal aXAoi? p,era rovratv
veavlaKois ddpoois crvvearuiai. /cai p.e npocriovra
'iTnroddXrjs lotbv, *0 vol

8rj
6 ^iWKpares, e<fyqt

TTopevr/ Kai iroBev;


fy
o'

'E 'AKaSrjfielas, rropevop.ai ev8v


B

eyco,
AvKelov.
os, eidv ov 7rapa/3dAAeis;
8'

AcO/OO Stj, rjp,u>v.


tf

aiov fievrot.
Hoi, <f>rjv eyut, Xeyeis, Kal irapa. rivas roits
vp,as
;

Aevpo, ecfyq, 8el$as p.01 ev rut KaravriKpv tov


reixovs TzepLfioXov re riva Kal dvpav avea)yfj.vrjv.
6
LYSIS
[or ON FRIENDSHIP: "obstetric"1]

CHARACTERS
Socrates, Hippothales, Ctesippus, Menexenus, Lysis

(Socrates relates a conversation that he had in


a wrestling-school)

I was making my way from the Academy straight


to the Lyceum, by the road outside the town wall,
just under the wall ; and when I reached the
little gate that leads to the spring of Panops,2 I
chanced there upon Hippothales, son of Hieronymus,
and Ctesippus of Paeania, and some other youths
with them, standing in a group together. Then
Hippothales, as he saw me approaching, said :
Socrates, whither away, and whence ?
From the Academy, I replied, on my way straight
to the Lyceum.
Come over here, he said, straight to us. You
will not put in here ? But you may as well.
Where do you mean ? I asked ; and what is your
company ?
Here, he said, showing me there, just opposite
the wall, a sort of enclosure and a door standing
i.e. facilitating the birth of correct notions, as Socrates
1

humorously claimed to do.


J i.e. of Hermes, the "all-seeing."
7
PLATO

8ia.Tpij3ofiev 8e, 17
8' os, avTodi 17/xeis Te ai5Toi
/cat aXXoi irdw ttoXXoI Kal KaXoi.
204 Eoti 8e tL tovto, Kal tls Siarpi/Jij;

8r]

rj
HaXalarpa, ecfrrj, veworl oj Ko8ofj,rjp,evrj Se

rj
Siarpi/Jij to. rroXXa iv Xoyois, cZv ijSews dv aoi
p,eTa8i8oZp,ev .

tls
rjv
8'
KaAcas' ye, eyco, irocovvres' Si8d<7/<:ei Se
avrodi.;
Soy iraipos ye, os, Kal eiraiveTr/s, MIkkos.

S'
r)
Md Ai'a,
ijV

eycl), ov cf)avX6s ye dvrjp, dXX'


8'

IKCLVOS OOtplOTrjS .
BouAei ovv erreodai, e<f>rj, Iva Kal "8rjs tovs
ovras avroai;, r' "*
'

JB YlpcoTov1 rj8ea>s aKovoai/x' dv em Tip /cat elaeipn


Kal rCs KaXos.
d

"AXXos,
d>

e<f>7), dXXcp rjp.cov 8oKeZ, Sto/cpares'.


Zoi tis, tovto p,oi elrri.
8rj

Se tu 'ImrodaXes
;

Kai os eputrqdels rjpvdpiaaev. Kal eycb etrrov


*2 naZ 'lepwvvp,ov 'ImrodaXes, tovto p,ev pvrjK&Ti

elTTTjs, eire epas tov elre pvq- oI8a yap oti ov


p,6vov epas, aXXa Kat iroppio 17817
et nopevop.evos
tov fiev dXXa <f>avXos Kal rd
8'

epcoTOS. elfj.1 eycb


axprjOTOS, tovto 8e p.oi ncos eK 9eov Se'Sorai, tcl)(v
C

oioj telvai yvcovai ipcovTa re Kai. epcop.evov.


Kai os aKOvaas ttoXv eri fidXXov r/pvOpcaarev.
6

AareZov ye, os, oti epvdpL&s,


'

oSv 'K.Trjonrnos
8
r)
,

w 'ImrodaXes, Kai OKveZs ehreZv Sai/fparet Tovvofxa


avrov ante wpCrrov seel. Burnet.
1
8
LYSIS
en. We pass our time there, he went on ; not
ly we ourselves, but others besides, a great
my,and handsome.
And what, pray, is this place, and what your
stime ?
A wrestling-school, he said, of recent construction ;
d our pastime chiefly consists of discussions, in
lich we should be happy to let you have a share.
That is very good of you, I said ; and who does
eteaching there ?
Your own comrade, he replied, and supporter,
iccus.
Upon my word, I
said, he is no slight person, but
qualified professor.
Then will you please come in with us, he said, so
to see for yourself the company we have there ?
I should be glad to hear first on what terms I am
enter, and which is the handsome one.
Each of us, he replied, has a different fancy,
crates.
Well, and which is yours, Hippothales ? Tell
i that.
At this question he blushed ; so I said : Ah,
ippothales, son of Hieronymus, you need not
mble to tell me whether you are in love with
mebody or not : for I know you are not only in
ft, but also far advanced already in your passion,
everything else I may be a poor useless creature,
t there is one gift that I have somehow from
aven, to be able to recognize quickly a lover or
beloved.
When he heard this, he blushed much more than
er. Then Ctesippus remarked : Quite charming,
e way you blush, Hippothales, and shrink from
PLATO

edv h" ovtos kolI oyzt/cpoV xPvov owStarpufrr] aoi,


TrapcLTaOrjcreTai vtto gov clkovcov da^ia XeyovTOS,
rj/xcov yovv, u> luWKpares , eKKeKOj<f>coKe to. (bra /cai
D AvaiSos' av /cat vnomT], ev/Mapla

St)
e/XTreVAij/ce p,ev
vttvov eypop\evois AvaiSos oteadai

e
rjfj.lv e'crri /cat
rovvofia aKovew. /cat a p,ev KaraAoydSrjv St-
ijyetrat, Setvd ovtol, ov irdvv tl Setvd eartv, aXX
eiretSdv rd TToitjfxaTa rjfxwv im)(eip7]crT) KaravrXelv
/cat ovyypdfj,[uiTa. /cat o cart tovtcov hewoTepov,
oti /cat aSet els ra iratSi/cd <f>ct)vfj 6avp.aaia, r\v
r)fj,as Set a/cotWra? dvexeadai. vvv Se epcoTcb-
p.evos vtto aov epvdpiq.
Cigtl be, eyco, o Avms veos tis, cos eot/ce-
o

t)v
on roi>vop,a ovk eyviov.
E

TeKp.aipop.ai. Se, d/covcra?


Ov ydp ndvv, e<f>r), rl avrov rovvop.a Xeyovaiv,
aXX' en
Trarpodev eVovo/xd^erat Std to a<f>6Spa tov
TraTepa yt,yvcboKeadai avrov. errel ev otS' on
ttoXXov Set? to etSos dyvoetv tov 7rat8dy t/cavds
ydp /cat d-no p.6vov tovtov yiyvcoo~KeoBai.
eyco, oStivos eomv.
8'

AeyeaOco, tjv
Ay]jj.0KpdT0VS, tov Al^covecos TrpecrfivTaTOS
6

e<j)7],

vios.
Etev, 'iTnrodaXes,
rjv

o'

yewdiov
c3

eyco, cos
/cat veavtKOV tovtov tov epcoTa TravTaxfj dvrjvpes4
/cat jitot /cat rotcrSe emSet/cvuo-ai,
d

101 em'Sei^at
205 Iva et'ScS et imaraarai a xpr\ epaoTrjv irepl TraibiK&v
Trpos avrov npos dXXovs Xeyew.
t)

Tovtcov Se Tl, e<f>r), aradp.3.,


<L

Sco/cpare?, mv

ooe Ae'yet;

i.e. " son of Democrates


"
1

(see below).
10
LYSIS

telling Socrates the name ; yet, if he spends but a


little time with you, he will find you a regular
torment, as he hears you repeat it again and again.
He has deafened our ears, I can tell you, Socrates,
"
by cramming them with " Lysis : let him be a
trifle in liquor, and as likely as not we start out of
our sleep fancying we hear the name of Lysis.
The descriptions he gives us in conversation, though
dreadful enough, are not so very bad : it is when he
sets about inundating us with his poems and prose
compositions. More dreadful than all, he actually
sings about his favourite in an extraordinary voice,
which we have the trial of hearing. And now, at
a question from you, he blushes !
Lysis apparently, I said, is somebody quite young :
this I infer from the fact that I did not recognize
the name when I heard it.
That is because they do not usually call him by
his name, he replied ; he still goes by his paternal
title,1 as his father is so very well known. You must,
I am sure, be anything but ignorant of the boy's
appearance : that alone would be enough to know
him by.
Let me hear, I said, whose son he is.
The eldest son, he replied, of Democrates of
Aexone.
Ah well, I said, Hippothales, what an altogether
noble and gallant love you have discovered there !
Now please go on and give me a performance like
those that you give your friends here, so that I
may know whether you understand what a lover
ought to say of his favourite to his face or to others.
Do you attach any weight, Socrates, he asked, to
anything you have heard this fellow say ?
11
PLATO

to ov

el
8'
YYorepov,

r)v
eyu>, /cat epdv e^apvos
Xeyei oSe;
Ovk eywye, e<f>rj, dXXd p.r) rroielv els ra 7ratSi/cd
/j.rjb'e ovyypd<f>eiv.
0v% vyiaivei, K.Trjoiir7ros, dXXd XrjpeZ re

6
e<f>rj
km p,aiverai,.
Kat eyco elnov ^D. 'linrodaXes, ov ti twv p.erpojv
Seo/nat aKovaai ovoe p,eXos ei ri ireTroi-qKas els rov
B

veavioKov dXXd rfjs Siavolas, Iva elScb riva rpoitov


,

7Tpoacf>eprj rrpos to. 7ratSt/cd.


"OSe hrj-nov aoi, aKpificos yap eiri-
e<f>r), epeZ'
araTat /cat fj,ep,vrjrat, elirep, tbs Xeyei, vir1 ep.ov del
aKovcov SiaredpvXrjraL.
tovs deovs, e<fyq Kr-qanrnos rrdw ye.
6
N17

,
/cat yap eon narayeXaara, ILdiKpares. ro
ydp epaarr)v ovra /cat Sia<f}ep6vra)s row dXXcov <5

rov vow Trpoae\ovra TV faiSi tSt,ov p,ev p,rj8ev


exew Xeyeiv, oiraZs eiTroi, ttcos ov\i
oi3^t kcLv
KarayeXaarov a oe ttoXls oXrj aSet nepl Arjfio-
C

rj
;

Kpdrovs /cat Avcnoos tov Trdmrov rov iraioos /cat


rravrajv -nepi ra~Jv irpoyovuiv, ttXovtovs re /cat
iTTTTOrpo(f>ias /cat viicas YivdoX /cat 'IaQp.oZ /cat
Neyaea. redpimrois re /cat /ceAijat, ravra rtoieZ re
/cat Xeyei, rrpbs Se rovrois en tovtcov KpoviKw-
repa. rov yap rov 'Hpa/cAeous evt,op,6v Trpojrjv
rjpZv ev rroi.rip.ari rwi Stjjei, ai? 8td rr)v rov Hpa-
kX4ovs avyyeveiav rrpoyovos avrCov imohe^airo
6

rov 'Hpa/cAe'a, yeyovws avros e/c Aios re /cat rfjs


D

rov 8-qp.ov dpxrjyerov Ovyarpos, anep at ypaZai

The Pythian Games were held at Delphi, the Isthmian


1

12
LYSIS
Tell me, I said ; do you deny being in love with
the person he mentions ?
Not I, he replied ; but I do deny that I make
poems and compositions on my favourite.
He is in a bad way, said Ctesippus ; why, he raves
like a madman !
Then I remarked : Hippothales, I do not want to
hear your verses, or any ode that you may have
indited to the youth ; I only ask for their purport,
thatI may know your manner of dealing with your
favourite.
I expect this fellow will tell you, he replied : he
has an accurate knowledge and recollection of them,
if there is any truth in what he says of my having
dinned them so constantly in his ears.
Quite so, on my soul, said Ctesippus ; and a
ridiculous story it is too, Socrates. To be a lover,
and to be singularly intent on one's boy, yet to
have nothing particular to tell him that a mere boy
could not say, is surely ridiculous : but he only
writes and relates things that the whole city sings
of, recalling Democrates and the boy's grandfather
Lysis and all his ancestors, with their wealth and
the horses they kept, and their victories at Delphi,
the Isthmus, and Nemea,1 with chariot-teams and
coursers, and, in addition, even hoarier antiquities
than these. Only two days ago he was recounting
to us in some poem of his the entertainment of
Hercules, how on account of his kinship with
Hercules their forefather welcomed the hero, being
himself the offspring of Zeus and of the daughter
of their deme's founder ; such old wives' tales, and

near Corinth, and the Nemean at Nemea, between Corinth


and Argos.
13
PLATO
dSovai, /cat dXXa 7roAAd roiavra, a) HwKpares'
Taur' eorlv a ovtos Xeycov re Kai aScov dvay/cdet
Kai Tj/naj oiKpoacrdau.
Kai e'ytu d/covcra? efTrov TQ KarayeXacrre 'Itttto-
8aXes, irplv vevucqitevai iroieis re /cat aSet? etV
oavrov iyKWfJuov;
'AAA' ovk els efiavrov, e<jyr), c5 "La>Kpares, oure
7T0lu> ovre aSa>.
u/c otet ye, tjv o eya>.
o oe TTCOS exet' eT>1?*

E Tldvriov fidXiora, elnov, eis oe reivovaiv aurai


at cooal. edv p.h> yap eXr/s rd watSt/cd toi-
aura ovra, Koap.os aoi carat rd Xe^Oevra /cat
dadevra Kai rd> ovri ey/cco/xta axnrep veviKrjKori,
or i roiovrwv naioiKiuv erv^es' edv Se ae 8ca</>vyT],
Saw dv p.ell,a> aoi elprjp.eva fj eyKco/xia rrepl rGxv
naiSiKcbv, roaovru) p.eit,6vojv Sonets KaXwv re Kai
dya^aiv iarepr)p,evos KarayeXaaros elvai. oaris
206 oSv rd epcoriKa, <L <f>LXe, ao<f>6s, ovk enaivel rov
epdijxevov rrplv dv eXr/, SeStco? to p,4XXov otttj drro-
fir\aerai. Kai a^ia ol KaXol, eneioav ris avroiis
iiraivfj Kai av^rj, (f>povrj(iaros epLmirXavTai Kat
p.eyaXav)(Las' rj ovk olei;
"Eywye, e<f>r].

Ovkovv oocp dv p,eyaXavxprepot. ajai, SvaaXct)-


rorepoi yiyvovrai;
Et/cd? ye.
riotos ris ovv dv aoi SoKeZ drjpevrrjs etvat, et

dvaoofloi drjpevcov /cat hvaaXiororepav rfjv dypav


irotot;
ArjXov on <f>avXos.

14
LYSIS

many more of the sort, Socrates, these are the


things he tells and trolls, while compelling us to be
his audience.
When I heard this I said : Oh, you ridiculous
Hippothales, do you compose and chant a triumph-
song on yourself, before you have won your victory ?
It is not on myself, Socrates, he replied, that I
either compose or chant it.
You think not, I said.
Then what is the truth of it ? he asked.
Most certainly, I replied, it is you to whom these
songs refer. For if you prevail on your favourite,
and he is such as you describe, all that you have
spoken and sung will be so much glory to you, and
a veritable eulogy upon your triumph in having
secured such a favourite as that : whereas if he eludes
your grasp, the higher the terms of your eulogy of
your favourite, the greater will seem to be the
charms and virtues you have lost, and you will
be ridiculed accordingly. Hence anyone who deals
wisely in love-matters, my friend, does not praise
his beloved until he prevails, for fear of what the
future may have in store for him. And besides,
these handsome boys, when so praised and extolled,
become full of pride and haughtiness : do you not
think so ?
I
do, he said.
And then, the haughtier they are, the harder
grows the task of capturing them ?
Yes, apparently.
And what do you think of a hunter who should
scare away his quarry in hunting and make it harder
to catch ?

Clearly he would be a poor one.


PLATO
B Kai Xoyois re /cat aiSat? p.r) KrjXetv dXX

Si]
[lev
eayptalveiv noXXr) dfiovala- yap;

r)
Ao/cet xtot.
ZtKotrei 8rj, ut 'IrnrodaXes, ottcos p.r) naoi rovron
evo^pv oavrov rroirjoeis Std rqv irovrjtnv /catTOi
ot/xat iyw dvSpa Troirjoei. fiXaTrrovra eavrov oi>h
av ae eOeXeiv 6p,oXoyrjcrai cbg dyados ttot ear
7roiijT7j?, fiXafiepos a>v eavrta.
Oi5 /xd rov Ata, e<j>rj' ttoXXt) ydp av dXoyla e"r\
aAAd 8td ravra 8tj aoi,
Jjd>Kpares, dvaKoivovp.ai
to
al rt dAAo e^eis, crvp,povXeve rlva dv ti? Adyoi
el
C

hiaXeyop.evos ri irpdrraiv rrpoa^iXrjg naioLKoli


rj

yevoiro.
ehrelv dXX

el
8'

0i5 pdhiov, tjv eyu>, /xot e0e


Xrjoais airov Troirjaai eis Xoyovs eXdetv, ioto? 01
8vvalp,r)v ool emSel^at., a \pr) aircp 8iaXeyea9a<
dvrl TOVTOtv cov ovtoi. Xeyeiv re /cat aukii
<j>acn ae.
'AAA' ovoev, e<f>r), ^aAeirdv. av yap eiaeXdj)'.
xterd Kryjcrlmrov rov8e /cat Ka6et,6p.evos StaAeyj;
otp,ai p.ev /cat avros ool Trpooeicn- <f>iXrjKoos yap
TiWKpares, earl, /cat
cS
D

8ia<f>ep6vTa>s d'/xa, til

'Kpp-aZa ayovauv, dvap.ep.eiyp.evoi. iv ravra> elaa


ot re veavioKoi /cat ol TraZ8es' irpoaeiaw ovv ooi
ovvrjdrjs earl 8td tov roirrot
el

8e p.rj, KrrjoiTnrcp
Mevetjevov Meveevip p.ev yap
8r)

dveiftiov Trdvrcoi

p-dXiora eraZpos wv rvyxdvei. KaXeadrw ovv ovtoi


\^avr6v, edv dpa p,r) npoaiy) avros.
Tavra,
r)v
8'

noieZv.
C

ey<l>, %pr) /cat d/xa AajSd)


I

16
LYSIS
And hence to use speech and song, not for charming
1
but for driving wild, would be gross fatuity, would
it not ?
I think so.
Then take care, Hippothales, not to make yourself
guilty of all these things by your verse-making ;
and yet I fancy you will not like to allow that a
man who damages himself by poetry can be a good l

poet, so long as he is damaging to himself.


On my soul, no, he said ; of course it would be
most absurd. But this is the very reason, Socrates,
why "I impart my feelings to you, and ask you for
any useful advice you can give as to what conversa
tion or conduct will help to endear one to one's
favourite.
That is not an easy thing to tell, I replied ; but
if you will agree to get him to have a talk with me,
I daresay I could show you an example of the
conversation you should hold with him, instead of
those things that your friends say you speak and sing.
There is no difficulty about that, he said. If you
will go in with Ctesippus here, and take a seat and
talk, I think he will come to you of his own accord ;
he is singularly fond of listening, Socrates, and
besides, they are keeping the Hermaea,1 so that
the youths and boys are all mingled together. So
he will come to you : but if he does not, Ctesippus
is intimate with him, as being a cousin of*Mene-
xenus ; for Lysis has chosen Menexenus for his parti
cular friend. So let Ctesippus call him if you find
that he does not come of himself.
That is what I must do, I said. Whereupon I took
1
The festival of Hermes, who was specially honoured in
wrestling-schools.
VOL. v c 17
PLATO

E rov Hrrjannrov irpoafja els rr)v TraXalorpav ol 8


aAAot vorepoi -qutov fioav. elaeXdovres 8e /car-
eXdfiouev avrodi redvKoras re rovs iralSas kcu
to. rrepl to. lepeta cr%e86v ri irjueva,
rjBrj rreTro

dcrrpayaXit,ovrds re Kal KeKocrpLrjuevovs drrav-

8r)
ras. ol uev ovv ttoXXoI ev rfj avXfj errai^ov e$oi,
ol he rives rov dirohvT-qpiov ev ytovlq r)prlaI,ov
dorpaydXois TraunoXXois, ex <f>opuicrKtov rivwv
Trpoai.povp.evoi.' rovrovs he rrepiiaraaav aXXoi deio-
povvres. cuv kcu 8r) Avois ijvj'/cai elarrjKV.

6
207 eV rots rraial re kcu veavioKois ecrre(f>avojuevos
Kal rr)v oifriv 8iaxf>epaiv, ov ro koXos etvcu piovov
dios clkovctcu, dXX' on koXos re Kayados. Kal

I
-quels els ro KaravriKpv aTroxcoprjoavres eKade-
ydp avrodi. ijau^i'a koL ti aXXrjXois
f)v

6ue6a
SieXeyoueda. Trepicrrpeifiouevos ovv Averts Oapa.

6
eneoKOTreZro rjuas, Kal BrjXos
rjv
emdvucbv rrpoa-
eXdelv. rims uev ovv rjrropei re /cat toKvei piovos
Trpooievai- erreira Meveijevos eK rfjs avXfjs
B

p.t-
6

ra^i) rrallojv eloepxerai, Kal tbs etSev iue re Kal


rov K.rrjonnrov, rjei rrapaKadit/qoouevos' IScov ovv
avrov Avois eartero Kal ovuTrapeKadel,ero pcera
6

rov Meveevov. Kal ol aXXoi,


8r)

TrpoorjXOov
\>

Kai or) Kai o LTnTOuaArjs, eTreior) -rrAeiovs ecopa

e^iara'uevovs rovrovs eTrqXvyioduevos TrpoaeaTi]


,

ur) ipero Karotfieodac rov Avoiv, 8e8icos p.i\


fj

ayrip aTrexOdvoi.ro' Kai ovra> Trpoaearcos rjKpoa.ro.


Kai eyco rrpos rov Meveevov drrofiXetpas, tO
'

7701
'

Ar]uo(j)a)vros, vucov Trpeoftvre-


r)v

eyco, -rrorepos
pos;

18
LYSIS
Ctesippus with me into the wrestling-school, and
the others came after us. When we got inside,
we found that the boys had performed the sacrifice
in the place and, as the ceremonial business was
now almost over, they were all playing at knuckle
bones and wearing their finest attire. Most of
them were playing in the court out-of-doors ; but
some were at a game of odd-and-even in a corner
of the undressing-room, with a great lot of knuckle
bones which they drew from little baskets ; and there
were others standing about them and looking on.
Among these was Lysis : he stood among the boys
and youths with a garland on his head, a distinguished
figure, deserving not merely the name of well-
favoured, but also of well-made and well-bred.
As for us, we went and sat apart on the opposite
side for it was quiet there and started some talk
amongst ourselves. The result was that Lysis ever
and anon turned round to observe us, and was
obviously eager to join us. For a while, however,
he hesitated, being too shy to approach us alone ;
till Menexenus stepped in for a moment from his
game in the court and, on seeing me and Ctesippus,
came to take a seat beside us. When Lysis saw
him, he came along too and sat down with Mene
xenus. Then all the others came to us also ; and I
must add that Hippothales, when he saw a good many
of them standing there, stood so as to be screened
by them, in a position where he thought Lysis
would not catch sight of him, as he feared that he
might irritate him ; in this way he stood by and
listened.
Then I, looking
at Menexenus, asked him : Son
of Demophon, which is the elder of you two ?
19
PLATO

'A/j,(f>icrpr]TOVfj,ev, ecfrr).
C Ovkovv Kal orrorepos yevvatorepos, epit,oir civ,
rjv o eyw.
Haw ye, ecf>rj.
Kai p.r)v onorepos ye KaAAiwv, cbcravrcos.
EyeAaoarrjv ovv ap.<f>co.
Ov firjv OTrorepos y, ecjjrjv, rrAovauLrepos vp.6~jv,
ovk eprjoo/jLai,- <f>iAa) yap earov. rj yap;
Udvv y , i(j)drrjv. <

Ovkovv kolvol to. ye <f>lAcov Aeyerai, ware rovTCp


ye ovSev Stoiaerov, e'lrrep dArjdrj nepl rfjs (f>iAias
Aeyerov.
Tivve(f>arrjV .

D 'Eirexelpovv or] p,erd rovro epwrav OTrorepos


oiKaiorepos Kal ao<j>(x>repos avrajv elrj. p,era.$;i>
ovv ris rrpoaeAdcbv dvearrjcre rov M.eveevov, <p&-
oku)v KaAeZv rov rraioor plfirjv eSoKei yap fioi iepo-
TTOicbv rvyx&veuv. eKeZvos p.ev ovv ar^ero- y<i> Se
rov Avaiv rjpop,rjv, H rtov, rjv o eya>, a> Aucrij
o(f>68pa <j)iAeZ ere 6 rrarr)p Kal r) p,rjrrjp; Yldvv
ye, rj 8' os.' Ovkovv fiovAowro av ae ojs evoaipuo-
E veararov elvai; Hws yap ov; Aoreei Se croi ev-
oaip^ojv etvai avOpcorros SovAevcov re Kal w p,r]8ev
e^elrj rroieZv 3>v emQv\i.oZ ; Md A" ovk ep.oi.ye,
Ovkovv rtarr\p Kal
e'l

oe p,rp-rjp
6

e<f>rj.
r)

<f)cAeZ
Kal evSalfiovd oe emdvfiovoi. yeveodai, rovro
Travrl rporrcp 8rjAov ort, rrpodvp-ovvrai ottios av
evo'aip.ovolrjs Hcos yap ou^t; ^4>rl-
'EcSow
dpa ae a fiovAei rroieZv, Kal ovSev emnAijrrowTiv
ov8e hiaKOjAvovai rroieZv &v av eTn6vp.f\s Nat
;

p,d A" ifxe ye, to JlcoKpares, real p.dAa ye noAAa.

20
LYSIS
It is a point in dispute between us, he replied.
Then you must also be at variance, I said, as to
which is the nobler.
Yes, to be sure, he said.
And moreover, which is the more beautiful,
likewise.
This made them both laugh.
But of course I shall not ask, I said, which of you
is the wealthier ; for you are friends, are you not ?

Certainly we are, they replied.


And, you know, friends are said to have every
thing in common, so that here at least there will be
no difference between you, if what you say of your

friendship is true.
They agreed.
After that I was proceeding to ask them which
was the juster and wiser of the two, when I was
interrupted by somebody who came and fetched
away Menexenus, saying that the wrestling-master
was calling him : I understood that he was taking
some part in the rites. So he went off ; and then
I asked Lysis : I suppose, Lysis, your father and
mother are exceedingly fond of you ? Yes, to be
sure, he replied. Then they would like you to be
as happy as possible ? Yes, of course. Do you
consider that a man is happy when enslaved and
restricted from doing everything he desires ? Not
I, on my word, he said. Then if your father and
mother are fond of you, and desire to see you happy,
it is perfectly plain that they are anxious to secure
your happiness. They must be, of course, he said.
Hence they allow you to do what you like, and
never scold you, or hinder you from doing what you
desire ? Yes, they do, Socrates, I assure you :
21
PLATO
koiXvovgiv. Xeyets; fy 8' eyui.
Hu>s /JouAd-
208 p-evoi ae [MaKapiov elvai SiaKioXvovai rovro Troieiv
o av povArj; code oe p,oi Aeye. r/v eirwvpvqar]'; em
twos tu>v rov narpos dpfidrcov oxeladai Xaficov
rds rjvias, orav d/xtAAarai, ovk av ewev ae dAAd
oiaKcoXuoiev ; Md At" ov /MevTOi av, e<fyr], ecpev.
'AAAd rlva pvqv; "Eon tis rjvloxos irapd tov
narpos fiiadov <f>epcov. II
Xeyeis; pnadcoTco
u>s

p.aXXov emrpeirovow rj ooi iroieiv o ri av jSouA^rat


nepi rovs lttttovs, /cat npooeTL avrov tovtov
g apyvpiov reXovow; 'AAAd ri pvt\v; e<f>r). 'AAAd
rov opiKov evyovs, otp,ai, emTpeirovai ooi dpxeuv,
Kav el fiovXoio Xafioov ttjv p,donya riwreiv, ecoev
av. llouev, rj o os, ecpev; It be; r)v o eyto-
ovSevl e^earw avrovs tvtttcw; Kat p,dXa, ecf>7],
ru> opeoKOfioi). AovXw ovn r] eXevOepop; AovAcu,
e<f>rj. KatSovXoy, cLs eoiKev, rjyowTai vepl
TrXeiovos rj ae tov vlov, /cat emrpeTTOvoi rd eavTcov
C //.aAAov 77 aoi, /cat eaWt TroieZv o rt fiovXerai, are
oe oiaKUiXvovai ; . /cat p,oi ert roSe elire. are
avrov ecoaiv dpxetv aeavrov, r) oihe tovto im-
Tpeiroval aot; Haas ydp, e<f>r), emTpeirovoiv ; 'AAA'
dpxei rt? gov; "OSe, iraihaycoyos , e<f>r). Mcov
oovXos tov; 'AAAd ri (irjv; rj/Merepos ye, e<f>rj.
TH heivov, eyco, eXevdepov ovra vno oovXov
8'
r]v

apx^odai. ri he ttoicHv afi ovtos iraihayooyos


6

gov dpxei; "Ayotv hrqirov, e<f>rj, els StSacr/cdAou.


Mtuv p,rj /cat ofirol gov dpxovaiv, ol StSdcr/caAot;
HapiiroXXovs dpa ooi SetT^ora?
D

TldvTcos SrjTrov.

The vaidayuySs was a trusted slave who was appointed


1

to attend on a boy out of school hours and to have a general


control over his conduct and industry.
22
LYSIS
they stop me from doing a great many things. How
do you mean ? I they wish you to be happy,
said :

and yet hinder you from doing what you like ?


But answer me this : suppose you desire to ride in
one of your father's chariots and hold the reins in
some race ; they will not allow you, but will prevent
you ? That is so, to be sure, he said ; they will not
allow me. But whom would they allow ? There
is a driver, in my father's pay. What do you say ?
A hireling, whom they trust rather than you, so
that he can do whatever he pleases with the horses ;
and they pay him besides a salary for doing that !
Why, of course, he said. Well, but they trust you
with the control of the mule-cart, and if you wanted
to take the whip and lash the team, they would
let you ? Nothing of the sort, he said. Why, I
asked, is nobody allowed to lash them ? Oh yes,
, he said, the muleteer. Is he a slave, or free ? A
slave, he replied. So it seems that they value a
1
slave more highly than you, their son, and entrust
him rather than you with their property, and allow
him to do what he likes, while preventing you ?
And now there is one thing more you must tell me.
'
Do they let you control your own self, or will they
I not trust you in that either ? Of course they do
not, he replied. But some one controls you ? Yes,
he said, my tutor1 here. Is he a slave? Why,
certainly ; he belongs to us, he said. What a
strange thing, I exclaimed; a. free man controlled
by a slave ! But how does this tutor actually exert
his control over you ? By taking me to school, I
suppose, he replied. And your schoolmasters, can
it be that they also control you ? I should think
they do ! Then quite a large number of masters
23
PLATO
/ecu apxovras eKcov 6 Trarrjp ecfriarrjoiv . dAA'
apa erreihav oiKaSe eX8rjs rrapd tt)v p,r]Tepa, eKeivq
ae ea noieiv o tl av fiovXrj, Iv* avrrj p.aKapios
7]S, y\ TTi.pi ra epia r) nepl rov Iotov, otov v<f>aivrj ;
(ov Tt yap ttov hiaKCoXvei ae rj rrjs OTrddrjs r) rrjs
KepKioos rj dXXov tov tcov rrepl TaXaaiovpyiav
opyavcov arrTeodaij Kai os yeXdaas, Ma Aia,
e<f>rj, co TicoKpares, ov p,6vov ye oiaKcoXvei, dAAa.
E Kai TVTTTolpirjV av el aTrToip,rjv. 'Hpd/cAeiy, rjv
8' eyco, p.cov fj,rj ti r)oiK7]Kas tov rrarepa r) rr)v
\x,ryrepa; Md A"
ovk eycoye, e(f>rj.
'AAA' dvrl tivos p>r)v ovtio ae oeivtos SiaKcoXvov-
aw ev8aip,ova etvai Kai rroieiv o ti av jSoJAtj, icat
Si' r)/j,epas SXr/s Tpecjtoval ae del rep oovXevovra.
Kai evl Xoycp dXlyov cov emdvp,els ovoev ttoiovvtoS
ware aot, cos eoiKev, ovre tcov xfi^P-drcov tooovtcov
209 ovtcov ovoev dXXa rravres avTcov /xaAAov
6cf>eXos,

apxovaiv rj av, ovre tov ocop,aTos ovtco yevvalov


ovtos, aXXa Kai tovto dXXos Troip,aivei Kai depa-
Trevei-ail Se dpxeis oySevos, 10 Aval, ov8e rroieis
ovSev cov emOvp,els. %\ Ov yap ttco, e<f>rj, rjXiKiav
exa>, co JLcoKpaTes. Mr) ov tovto ae, co 770.1

Arjp.oKparovs, kcoXvtj, errei to ye ToaovSe, cos


eywp.ai, Kai o TraTrjp Kai r) \xrp-r\p aoi emTperrovai,
Kai ovk avap.evovaiv ecos av rjXiKiav exZ)S. orav
yap povXcovTai avrois riva dvayvcoadrjvai r) ypa-
B cprjvai, ae, cos eywfiai, rrpcoTov tcov ev ttj oikio.
em tovto TaTTOvaiv. 97 ydp; IT aw y , ecf>rj.
Ovkovv e(;eoTi aoi evrauo'' o ti av fiovXr) rrpcorov
tcov ypap.p.aTcov ypd<f>eiv Kai o ri av SevTepov Kai

24
LYSIS
and controllers are deliberately set over you by
your father. But when you come home to your
mother, she surely lets you do what you like, that
she may make you happy, either with her wool or
her loom, when she is weaving ? I take it she does
not prevent you from handling her batten, or her
comb, or any other of her wool-work implements.
At this he laughed and said : I promise you, Socrates,
not only does she prevent me, but I should get a
beating as well, if I laid hands on them. Good
heavens ! I said : can it be that you have done your
father or mother some wrong ? On my word, no, he
replied.
Well, what reason can they have for so strangely
1
preventing you from being happy and doing what
you like ? Why do they maintain you all day long
in constant servitude to somebody, so that, in a
word, you do hardly a single thing that you desire ?
'I
And thus, it would seem, you get no advantage from
I all your great possessions nay, anyone else controls

them rather than you nor from your own person,


though so well-born, which is also shepherded and
managed by another ; while you, Lysis, control
I
nobody, and do nothing that you desire. It is
, because I am not yet of age, Socrates, he said.
That can hardly be the hindrance, son of Demo-
crates, since there is a certain amount, I imagine,
that your father and mother entrust to you without
waiting until you come of age. For when they
want some reading or writing done for them, it is
you, I conceive, whom they appoint to do it before
any others of the household. Is it not so ? Quite
so, he replied. And you are free there to choose
which letter you shall write first and which second,

25
PLATO

dvayiyvuiaKeiv cboavrtus eeonk_ /ecu erreiZdv, cos


eycppai, ttjv Xvpav Xdftrjs, ov 8iaKcoXvovcrl ere ovd'
6 rrarrjp ovd' r) pr\rr\p imretval re /ecu dveZvat fjv
dv fiovXy rcov xop8wv, /ecu ifirjXai, /ecu Kpoveiv tco
TrXfJKrpco. rj 8iaKtoXvovatv ; Ov 8rjra. fTi rror'
dv oSv elrj, c5 Aval, to atnov on evravda pev ov
C oiaKLoXvovcriv, ev ots 8e dpn eXeyopev kloXvovctiv ;
'On, otpai, e<j>rj, ravra pev emWo/wi, e/ceiva S'
ov. hilev, fjv o apcare' ovk apa rrjv
eyco, to

rjXiKiav aov rrepipevei 6 irarr/p emrpeireiv rravra,


dXX' rj dv rjpepa rjyrjorjraL ae fieXnov avrov <f>po-
veiv, ravrr) ernrph\se\, aoi /ecu avrov /ecu ra avrov.
Otpai eycoye, e<j>r). Etev, eyco- rl 8e; tco

8'
r)v
yeirovi dp' airos opos ajcmep ru> rrarpi
6

ov%
nepl gov; rtorepov oiei avrov emrpeireiv 001 -rrjv
avrov oliciav oiKovopelv orav oe rjyqarjrai fleXriov
,

nepl o'iKOVopias eavrov <f>povelv, avrov erriara.-


D

r]

rrjaeiv; 'Euoi emrpei/ieiv otpai. Ti 8


; 'A.9rj-
vaiovs oiei aoi ovk emrpeijieiv rd avrcov, orav
aladdvtovrai on iKavcos <f>poveis "ULywyel* Ilpds
;

Aids, rl
8'
r)v

eyco, apa peyas fiaaiXevs; rtorepov


6

rco rrpea^vrdrco vlei, 0$ rfjs 'Aolas dpxrj yiy-


r)

verai, paXXov dv emrpetfieiev iiftopevcov Kpecov


[epfidXXeiv]1 o n dv fiovXrjrai epfiaXeiv els rov
el

rjp.lv, eiceTvov eVSet-


E

copov, a<f>iKopevoi Trap


rj

aipe9a aiirco, on rjpels koXXiov (fipovovpev


6
rj

vlos avrov rrepl oif/ov atcevaoias 'Hpiv 8rjXov on,


;

e<f>r).
Kai rov piv ye ov8' dv opixpov edaeiev
^ujSdXXeu' seel. Heindorf.
1

26
LYSIS
i

and you have a like choice in reading. And, I


suppose, when you take your lyre, neither your
father nor your mother prevents you from tightening
or slackening what string you please, or from using
your finger or your plectrum at will : or do they
prevent you ? Oh, no. Then whatever can be the
reason, Lysis, why they do not prevent you here,
while in the matters we were just mentioning they
do ? I suppose, he said, because I understand these
things, but not those others. Very well, I said, my
excellent friend : so it is not your coming of age
that your father is waiting for, as the time for
entrusting you with everything ; but on the day
when he considers you to have a better intelligence
than himself, he will entrust you with himself and
all that is his. Yes, I think so, he said. Very well,
I went on, but tell me, does not your neighbour
observe the same rule as your father towards you ?
'|
Do you think he will entrust you with the manage-
I ment of his house, as soon as he considers you to
have a better idea of its management than himself,
or will he direct it himself ? I should say he would
entrust, it to me. Well then, do you not think that
1 the Athenians will entrust you with their affairs,
, when they perceive that you have sufficient in
telligence ? I do. Ah, do let me ask this, I went
on : what, pray, of the Great King ? Would he
allow his eldest son, heir-apparent to the throne
of Asia, to put what he chose into the royal stew,
or would he prefer us to do it, supposing we came
before him and convinced him that we had a better
notion than his son of preparing a tasty dish ?
Clearly he would prefer us, he said. And he would
not allow the prince to put in the smallest bit,

27
PLATO

i/jipaXeiv r)p,as Se, /caV el fiovXolp,e9a Spa^a/xevot


raw aXdJv eairj dv ep-fiaXelv. IIws yap ov; Ti S'
el roils 6<f>6aXp,ovs 6 vlos avrov dadevoZ, apa eatij
dv avrov drrreaOai. raJv iavrov 6<pdaXp.a>v, fjL-rj
210 larpov -qyovpievos, r) kcdXvoi. av; Ka/Auoi av.
H/xa? Se ye el vrroXapfidvoi larpiKOVS elvai, Kav el
'

jiovXolp.eda oiavolyovres rovs otpdaXpovs ep.7Ta.acLL


rrjs re<j>pas, olp,ai, ovk av KOiXvaeiev, rjyovp.evos'
opdws <f>poveZv. 'AXrjdrj Xeyets. TAp' ovv /cat
raXXa rtdvra 7]p.Zv imrpenoi av p,aXXov rj eavrcp
Kal ru> vleZ, irepl dautv av 86a>p.ev avra> aocpayre-
pai eKeivwv elvai; 'AvdyK-q, e<f>r), w Tid>Kpares.
' (Jvrais apa e^ei, rjv o eyw, a> <piAe Avon- eis
B p-ev ravra, a dv <f>p6vip,ot drravres
yevoipeda,
r]pA.v eirirpeipovaiv, "EXXr/ves re Kal ftdpftapoi. /cat
dvSpes Kal yvvaiKes, TTOirjoop.ev re ev rovrois o tl
av l3ovX(x)p,e8a, Kal ovSeis rjp.a.s eKcbv elvai e/j.rro-
Sieij dXX' avroi re eXevdepoi eaopieda ev avrois /cat
dXXa>v dpxovres, re ravra ear at.- ovr)-
r)p,erepd
oop,eda yap <x7r' avraJv els a ' dv vovv p.r) K-rrj-
otbp,eda, ovre ris r)p,Zv emrpetfiei nepl avrd rroieiv
to. 7jp.lv 8oi<ovvra, dXX' ep,TToBiovai rravres KaO' o
C ti ov Svvaivrai, ov p.6vov ol aXXorpwi, dXXd Kal 6
narrjp Kal r) p,rjrr]p /cat ei ri rovrojv oiKeiorepov
earw, avroi re ev avroZs eaopeda dXXojv vtttjkooi,
Kal rjpuv earai dXXorpia- ovoev yap an' avrcov
6v7]o6p,e9a. avy\a)peZs ovrats e^eiv ; Suy^copcu.*
*Ap' ovv rep (J)IXol iaop.e0a Kal ris r)p,ds ^tAijcrct
ev rovrois, ev ols dv <hp.ev dvu><f>eXeZs ; Ov orjra,
28
LYSIS

|
whereas he would let us have our way even if we
wanted to put in salt by the handful. Why, of
i course. Again, if his son has something the matter
'
with his eyes, would he let him meddle with them
I himself, if he considered him to be no doctor, or
would he prevent him ? He would prevent him.
But if he supposed us to have medical skill, he would
not prevent us, I imagine, even though we wanted
to pull the eyes open and sprinkle them with ashes,
so long as he believed our judgement to be sound.

| That is true. So he would entrust us, rather than


himself or his son, with all his other affairs besides,
wherever he felt we were more skilled than they ?
Necessarily, he said, Socrates.
The case then, my dear Lysis, I said, stands thus :
with regard to matters in which we become intelligent,
every one will entrust us with them, whether Greeks
foreigners, men or women and in such matters we
;

shall do as we please, and nobody will care to obstruct


Ior

us. Nay, not only shall we ourselves be free and


have control of others in these affairs, but they
will also belong to us, since we shall derive advantage
from them whereas in all those for which we have
L

failed to acquire intelligence, so far will anyone


I

be from permitting us to deal with them as we


I

think fit, that everybody will do his utmost to


obstruct us not merely strangers, but father and
i

mother and any more intimate person than they


;

and we on our part shall be subject to others in


such matters, which will be no concern of ours,
since we shall draw no advantage from them. Do
'

you agree to this account of the case? agree.


I

Then will anyone count us his friends or have any


affection for us in those matters for which we are

29
PLATO

etjyr]. Nvv dpa ov8e ae 6 narrfp ovSe dXXos dXAov


ovoeva <f>iXei, ko.9' oaov dv fj dxprjaTOS. Ovk
eoiKev, 'Kdv p-ev dpa ao<f>6s yevr], w iraZ,
e<f>rj.

D Travres crot <f>iXoi Kai irdvTes aoi ot/ceiot eaovTai-


Xprjcnp-os yap Kai dyados earf el oe pJ], aol oure
dXXos onsets' ovt 6 TraTrip (f>lXos carat ovre rj
p,rqTrjp ovre ol oiKeloi. olov re ovv em tovtols,
<L Aval, p,eya <f>povelv, ev ols ris pA\Tno <f>povet;
Kai ttcos dv; e<f>r).
Ei 8' dpa av oioaaxaXov
oer), ovttoj <f>povels. 'AXrjOrj. 0u8' dpa /ieya-
X6<f>pojvel, eirrep d<f>poov eri. Md Ata, e<f>r), <L
TiU)Kpares, ov poi ooKei.
E Kai eyeb dteovaas avrov dne^Xetfia npos tov
'ImroOdXrj, Kai oXiyov e-qp.aprov eTrfjXde yap
p,oi threw on & 'ImroOaXes, -rots
Outco XP~h>

TraioiKois BiaXeyeadai, TanewovvTa Kai avareX-


Xovra, dXXd p.rj wairep av pwowTa Kai Sta-
dpvTTTOvra. Kariochv ow avrov dycovtcovra /cat
TedopvpTjp.evov vtto twv Xeyop.evu>v , dvep.v^adrjv
on Kat Trpoaearws Xavddvew tov Avaiv efiovXeTo-
211 dveXafiov ovv ep,avrov /cat eireaxov tov Xoyov.
''Kai ev tovtoj 6 Meveevos irdXiv fJKe, /cat eKo.0-
et,TO -napd tov Avaiv, oOev ko.1 e^aveaT-q. 6
odv Avacs p,dXa iraioiKois Kai (friXiKws, Xddpa tov
Meveevov, ap,iKpov npos p.e Xeycov e<f>rj- TQ Zco-
Kpares, dnep Kai ip,ol Xeyeis, elne Kai M.eveevcp.
Kat eyeb elirov, Taura p,ev ail avTw epeis, a>

Avar ndvTcos yap npoaeixes tov vow.


Hdvv p,ev ovv, e(f>r].
SO
LYSIS
useless ? Surely not, he said. So now, you see,
your father does not love you, nor does anyone
love anyone else, so far as one is useless. Apparently
not, he said. Then if you can become wise, my
boy, everybody will be your friend, every one will
be intimate with you, since you will be useful and

good ; otherwise, no one at all, not your father,


nor your mother, nor your intimate connexions,
will be your friends. Now is it possible, Lysis, to
have a high notion of yourself in matters of which
! you have as yet no notion ? Why, how can I ? he
said. Then if you are in need of a teacher, you
have as yet no notion of things ? True. Nor can
you have a great notion of yourself, if you are still
notionless. Upon my word, Socrates, he said, I do
not see how I can.
On hearing him answer this, I
glanced at Hippo- .

thales, and nearly made a blunder, for it came into


|
i my mind to say This is the way, Hippothales, in
:

which you should talk to your favourite, humbling


and reducing him, instead of puffing him up and

spoiling him, as you do now. Well, I noticed that he


. was in an agony of embarrassment at what we had
been saying, and I remembered how, in standing near,
i he wished to hide himself from Lysis. So I checked
myself and withheld this remark. In the mean
time, Menexenus came back, and sat down by Lysis
in the place he had left on going out. Then Lysis,
in a most playful, affectionate manner, unobserved
by Menexenus, said softly to me : Socrates, tell
Menexenus what you have been saying to me.
To which I replied : You shall tell it him yourself,
Lysis ; for you gave it your closest attention.
I did, indeed, he said.
31
PLATO

Heipco roivvv, rjV 8' eyed, aTTOfwrjuovevaai aura


B Sri fidXiara, Iva rovrco oa<f>cos Wvra eiirrjs' lectv
8e rt avrcov emXddr], aSdls /x dvepea&ai otolv
evrvxus npcorov.[
'AAAd TTOirjcra), e<f>r), ravra, TicoKpares, rrcxvv
J>

o<f>68pa, e$ Xadi. dXXd tl dXXo avrcp Xeye,


iva /ecu eyco olkovco, ecos av oiKa8e topa. rj
amevai.
'AAAd xprj rroieiv ravra, rjv 8' eyed, eWiSrj ye
Kai av KeXeveis. dAAd Spa Sncos imKovprfcreis
p.01, edv pie eXeyxeiv emxeipfj 6 Meveijevos' t) ovk
ottjQa Sri epiariKos eariv;
Nai Ai'a, ecf>rj, otf>68pa ye' 8id ravrd
p,d tol
Kal fiovXopiai ae avrcp 8iaXeyeadai.
C "Iva, r(v 8' eyco, KarayeXaaros yevcopiai;
Ov p.a Aia, ecj>r), aXX Iva avrov KoXdcrrjs.
fjv

HoOev; ov pd8iov yap


8'

eyco- Seivos

6
dvOpcoTTOS, KrTjannrov p,ady]rrjs. ndpeori 8e tol
avros ov\ Spas; Kt^owto?
.

MijSerdy ooi, e<f>r), p,eXerco, to HcoKpares, d.XX'


I

?0i StaAe'yov avrcp.


/

AiaXeKreov, rjv eyco.


8
4

Tavra ofiv rjpicov


Xeyovrcov irpos rjpias avrovs,
TY vpieis, e<f)7j VirTJaiTTTTOS, avrco p,ovco earicx-
S

adov, rjpXv 8e ov p,era8i8orov rcov Xoycov;


yap
fjv

'AAAd S8e
8'
D

p.rjv, eyed, pi.era8ore.ov.


ri cov ov piavddvei, dXXd cf>-qoiv o'ieo6a.i
Xeyco
Meveevov elSevai, Kal KeXevei rovrov epcorav.
ovv, rt os, ovk epcoras;
o
i

AAAep-qaop.ai, ijv o eyco. Kai


enre, co
p.01
Meveeve, o av ae epcopiai. rvy\dvco yap k
nai86s emOvpicov Krrj/Aaros rov, coonep dXXos
32
LYSIS
Then try, I
went on, to recollect it as well as you
can, so that you tell him the whole of it clearly :
but if you forget any of it, mind that you ask me for
it again when next you meet me.
I will do so, Socrates, he said, by all means, I
assure you. But tell him something else, that I
may hear it too, until it is time to go home.
Well, I must do so, I said, since it is you who bid
me. But be ready to come to my support, in case
Menexenus attempts to refute me. You know what
a keen disputant he is.
Yes, on my word, very keen ; that is why I want
you to have a talk with him. :
So that I may make myself ridiculous ? I said.
No, no, indeed, he replied ; I want you to trounce
him.
How can I ? I asked. It is not easy, when the
fellow is so formidable a pupil of Ctesippus. And

here do you not see ? is Ctesippus himself.
Take no heed of anyone, Socrates, he said ; just
go on and have a talk with him.
I must comply, I said.
Now, as these words passed between us, What
is this feast, said Ctesippus, that you two are having
by yourselves, without allowing us a share in your
talk?
Well, well, I replied, we must give you a share.
My friend here fails to understand something that
I have been saying, but tells me he thinks Mene
xenus knows, and he urges me to question him.
Why not ask him then ? said he.
But I am going to, I replied. Now please answer,
Menexenus, whatever question I may ask you.
There is a certain possession that I have desired

vol. v d 33
PLATO

dXXov. 6 p,ev yap ris Ittttovs emdvp,el KraoOai,


o oe Kvvas, o be XPVOLOV> 0 Tifxas' eyco oe irpos
p,ev ravTa Trpacos rrpos Se ttjv toiv <f>l\iov
eXaj
Krrjaiv ttovv ipa)Ti.Ku>s, Kal f$ovXoi.p.r)v av /zot
<j>iXov dyadov yeveodac p,dXXov r) tov apiarov ev
dvdpwiTois oprvya 77 aXeKTpvova, Kal val p,d Ata
eyorye ^.aAAov 77
Ittttov re Kal Kvva- oijuai Se',
tov Kvva, p,dXXov to Aapelov \pvoiov kttj-
it)

rj
oao0ai\oealpr)v\jToXv vporepov eraipov Jt-p-aXXov

r)
avrov Aapeiov\ovra>s iy<h (jyiXeraipos tIs elfJU.
212ivp,ds oSv opwv, oe re Kal Avow, eKveTrXr)yp,ai, /cat
ev8aip,ovlco on ovtoj veoi ovres otoi r eoTOv
,

tovto to KTrjp,a ra)(v Kal pq8iios KTO.odai, Kai av


Te tovtov ovtco <f)lXov eKT-qaoi ra\v Te Kai o(f>6-
Spa, Kal afi ofiros oe1 eycb oe ovtoj itoppoi elpl tov
KTrip.aTOS, wore ov8' ovriva rpoTtov yiyverai <j>lXos
erepos erepov oiSa, dAAa ravra avra oe j3ov-
St)

Ao/xai epeoOai are epvneipov.


K

Kai p.01 elne- eneiSdv ti? rwa <f>tXfj, irorepos


irorepov cjilXos yiyverai, tov ^iXovpuevov
B

(fytXwv
6

(f>iXovp,evos tov <f>iXovvros' ovSev Sia^epei;


6
q

r)

OuSeV, e<f>r), efxoiye So/cei 8t,acf>epeiv. Hu>s Xeyeis;


ijv

iyoj- apL(f>OTepoi dpa aXXrjXcov <f>t.Xoi. yiyvovT<xi,


S

edv p.6vos erepos tov erepov "E/zoiye, e^T?,


6

(f>t>Xfj;

So/cei. Ti Se; ovk eon avn^tAei-


<f>iXovvra p.r]
oOai vtto tovtov ov dv <f>iXfj; "E0-7W. Ti Se; apa
eon Kal pLioelodai <f>iXovvra; oiov ttov eviore 00-
kovoi Kal ol epaoral Trdo~xeiv npos ra TratSi/cd"
34
LYSIS
from my childhood, as every one does in his own
way. One person wants to get possession of horses,
another dogs, another money, and another dis
tinctions : of these things I reck little, but for the
possession of friends I have quite a passionate
longing, and would rather obtain a good friend
than the best quail or cock in the world ; yes, and
rather, I swear, than any horse or dog. I believe,
indeed, by the Dog, that rather than all Darius 's
gold I would choose to gain a dear comrade far
sooner than I would Darius himself, so fond I am
of my comrades. Accordingly, when I see you
and Lysis together, I am quite beside myself, and

congratulate you on being able, at such an early


age, to gain this possession so quickly and easily ;
since you, Menexenus, have so quickly and surely
acquired his friendship, and he likewise yours :
whereas I am so far from acquiring such a thing,
that I do not even know in what way one person
becomes a friend of another, and am constrained
to ask you about this very point, in view of your

experience.
Now tell me : when one person loves another,
which of the two becomes friend of the other
the loving of the loved, or the loved of the loving ?
Or is there no difference ? There is none, he replied,
in my opinion. How is that ? I said ; do you mean
that both become friends mutually, when there is
only one loving the other ? Yes, I think so, he
replied. But I ask you, is it not possible for one
loving not to be loved by him whom he loves ? It
But again, may he not be even hated while
is.

loving This, imagine, is the sort of thing that


I
?

lovers do sometimes seem to incur with their

35
PLATO

C <f>iXovvres yap otov re [idAiara ol uev1 o'wvrai


cos
ovk dvricfriXeiaOai, ol 8e Kal pnaeZodai- r) ovk
dXr/des 8o/cei aoi rovro; E^dSpa ye, ecj)rj, dXrjdes.
Ovkovv iv to) roiovrco, rjv 8' eyco, 6 fiev <f>iXeZ, o
8e cj)iXeZrai; Nat.
Horepos ovv avrcov rrorepov
<f>iXos
iariv; 6 <j)iXaJv rov <f>iXovp,evov, idv re Kal
dvricj>t,Xrjrai. idv re /cat p.Larjrai, rj 6 (f>iXovuevos
rov <f>iXovvros ; r] ovSerepos av ev rco roiovrco ovS-
eripov cj>iXos iariv, dv Lirj dp,cf}6repoi dXXiqXovs
D <j>iXcoaiv; "Eot/ce yovv ovrtos e^eiv. 'AXXoCcos
dpa vvv
rjfiZv 8o/cei rj rtporepov eoo^ev. Tore
[lev ydp, el 6 erepos <f>iXoZ, <f>iXco elvai dp.<f>a>- vvv
he, dv p,r) dacf>6repoi cf>iXcoaiv, ovoerepos <f>iAos.
KtvSweuet, Ovk dpa earl <f>iXov rep <j>iXovv-
e<f>rj.

ri ovoev fir) ovk dvri<f>iXovv. Ovk eoiKev. Ot)S'


dpa cf>iXnnTOi elaiv ovs dv ol ittttoi p.r) dvri(f>iXcoatv ,
ovhe (f)iX6prvyes, oi>8' av <f>iXoKvves ye Kal (f>CXoivoi
Kal (f)tXoyvfivaaral Kal t/>iX6ao(j>oi, dv fir/ r/ ao<f>La
aiirovs dvri<f>iXfj. rj <f>iXovai p,ev ravra eKaaroi,
E ov [livroi <j>iXa ovra, dXXa ifiev8e9 6 noirjrrjs, Ss
tyr)
oXBios, co re cjtiXoi Kal ficovvx^s Ittttoi
TTdioes
Kal Kvves dypevral Kal evos dXXooanos ;

Ovk euoiye So/cei, rj 8' oj. 'AAA aXrjdrj So/cei


Xeyeiv aot; Nat. To (f>iXovp.evov dpa rco <f>i-
Xovvri <f>iXov
iariv, cbs eoiKev, a> Meveeve, idv re
<j>iXfj idv re Kal fiiofj- otov /cat to vecoari yeyovora
213 7rat8t'a, rd fiev ovSerrco cfuXovvra, ra 8e /cat yut-

1
ol /j.t>> Heindorf : oU/acvol mss.
36
LYSIS
favourites : they love them with all their might,
yet they feel either that they are not loved in return,
or that they are actually hated. Or do you not
think this is true ? Very true, he replied. Now
in such a case, I went on, the one loves and the
other is loved ? Yes. Which of the two, then, is
a friend of the other ? Is the loving a friend of the
loved, whether in fact he is loved in return or is
even hated, or is the loved a friend of the loving ?
Or again, is neither of them in such a case friend of
the other, if both do not love mutually ? At any
rate, he said, it looks as if this were so. So you
see, we now hold a different view from what we
held before. At first we said that if one of them
loved, both were friends : but now, if both do not
love, neither is a friend. It looks like it, he said. So
there is no such thing as a friend for the lover who
is not loved in return. Apparently not. And so
we find no horse-lovers where the horses do not
love in return, no quail-lovers, dog-lovers, wine-
lovers, or sport-lovers on such terms, nor any lovers of
wisdom if she returns not their love. Or does each
person love these things, while yet failing to make
friends of them, and was it a lying poet who said

Happy to have your children as friends, and your trampling


horses,
Scent-snuffing hounds, and a host when you travel
*
abroad ?

I do not think so, he said. But do you think he


spoke the truth ? Yes. Then the loved object is
a friend to the lover, it would seem, Menexenus,
alike whether it loves or hates : for instance, new
born children, who have either not begun to love,
1
Solon, 21. 2.
37
PLATO
aovvra, orav KoXdfyjrai wo rrjs prfrpos rj vtto rov
TTCLTpOS, OflCOS Kal fjLUJOVVTO. V KlV(t) Tip yfiOVUi
ndvrojv pidXiord ion rols yovevot tptXrara.
"E^iot-
ye SoksI, e<f>r), ovrws ext,/ Ovk dpa 6 <f>i\cbv
<f>lXos
K rovrov rov Xoyov, dAA' 6 (f>iXovfieuos' .
"Eot/cev. Kat 6 p,iaovp,evos dpa, dAA*
exOpos
ov% 6 p,ioa>v. Qatverai. IIoAAoi dpa vtto rutv
exdpdiv (piXovvrai, vtto oe tu>v cplXcov pioovvrac ,
Kal rots p.ev exSpols </>lXoi elai, rots Se (piXocs
B ixdpoi, el to <f>iXovp,evov <f>lXov arlv dXXd fx-rj
to <f>iXovv. Kalroi ttoXXt) dXoyia, <x) <f>lXe eraZpe,
/xaAAov Se, olpai, Kal dhvvarov, ru> re <f>lXa> ex^pov
Kal rat ex^pat <f>iXov elvai. 'AXrjOrj, e<f>rj, eoiKas
Xeyeiv, a> HaiKpares Ovkow el rovr' dSwarov,
to (jtiXow av elr] <f>lXov rov (jtiXovpevov . Oaiverai.
To piaovv dpa rrdXiv exdpov rov pioovp,evov .
'AvdyKTj. Ovkow ravrd rjp.lv avp.^r]aerai avay-
C Katov elvai 6p,oXoyeiv, drrep em ratv -rrporepov ,
rroXXaKis <piXov elvai p,r) <f>iXov, rroXXaKis oe koli
ex^pov, orav rj p,r) (ftiXovv rig <ftiXfj r) Kal p.iooijv
<jtiXfj' TroXXaKis o' ex^pov elvai pvrj ix@pov r) Kal
<f>lXov, orav rj p,7J p,iaovv ris P-<-<rf} ?} *" (piXovv
KivSvvevei, e<ftr). Ti ovv
hi)

piofj. ^prjoto/xc^a,
p,rjre ol (ftiXovvres <f>iXoi eoovrai
~r)v

el
8'

eyw,
p-rfre ol (piXovvres re Kal cf>i-
ol

pryre <ftiXovp,evoi
Xovp,evoi, dXXd Kal irapa ravra dXXovs rivas exi
<j>rjoop,ev elvai <f>lXovs dAA^Aoi? yiyvop.evovs Oi5
;

In this argument Socrates makes play, like one of' the


1

"eristic" sophists, with the ambiguous meaning of tpl\os


friend " or " dear
" or " hateful
and exSpos enemy ").
("

("
")

Beneath his immediate purpose of puzzling the young man


lies the intention of pointing out the obscurity of the very
terms " friend " and " enemy."
38
LYSIS
or already hate, if punished by their mother or their
father, are yet at that very moment, and in spite of
their hate, especially and pre-eminently friends to
their parents. I think, he said, that is the case.
Then this argument shows that it is not the lover
who is a friend, but the loved. Apparently. And
it is the hated who is an enemy, not the hater.
Evidently. Then people must often be loved by
their enemies, and hated by their friends, and be
friends to their enemies and enemies to their friends,
if the loved object is a friend rather than the loving
agent. And yet it is a gross absurdity, my dear
friend I should say rather, an impossibility
that one should be an enemy to one's friend and a
friend to one's enemy. You appear to be right
there, Socrates, he said. Then if that is impossible,
it is the loving that must be a friend of the loved.
Evidently. And so the hating, on the other hand,
will be an enemy of the hated. Necessarily. Hence
in the end we shall find ourselves compelled to agree
to the same statement as we made before, that

frequently a man is a friend of one who is no friend,


and frequently even of an enemy, when he loves one
\ who loves not, or even hates ; while frequently a
man may be an enemy of one who is no enemy or
even a friend, when he hates one who hates not,
or even loves.1 It looks like it, he said. What then
are we to make of it, I asked, if neither the loving
are to be friends, nor the loved, nor both the loving
and loved together ? 2 For apart from these, are
there any others left for us to cite as becoming
friends to one another ? For my part, Socrates,
2
Socrates cannot be said to have disposed of this third
proposition.
39
PLATO

ju.a tov At'a, <f>7], J> HwKpares, ov irdvv eviropui


eyoj, a> M.eveeve, to

rjv
rApa

8'
D eycoye. /xrj,
napditav ovk opdais i^r]TOvp,ev Ovk e/xoiye So/cet,

;
/cat a/xa zIttojv

c5
e^ij, Sctj/cpares, o Aucns.
7]pv9piaaev eSd/cet yap |U.oi aKrovr' auTW K<f>ev-
yew to Ae^aev 8td to a<j>68pa npoaexeiv tov vovv

ijv
rots ore

8'
XeyofievoLs' SijAos /<ai ij/cpoaVo
OUTCOS' %0)V.
Eya> ow /3ovX6p,evos tov t Meve^evov dvanav-
crai Krai e/ceivou rjadeis Trj <f>iXoo~o<f>iq, ovtco p,T<x-
(laXcbv Trpos tov Avow iiroiovp.rjv tovs Xoyovsj
Kal etnov tO Aval, So/cei? Xeyeiv d-rt
E

dXr)6rj p,oi>
ei opdws 'fjp.els Okottov/j.v, ovk dv ttotc ovtojs
eTrXav(x)p,eda. dWd to.vtt\ p,ev p,r]KeTi toj/xev
Kal yap xa^e77"lj Tt's M01 peuverai too-ntp 686s

-q
OKeifjis' 8e eTpdnrj/jLev, SoKei /xoi xpfjvai levai,
fi

214 okottovvto} /cara tovs TronjTaV oStoi yap 17/x.iv


oucrTrep TraTepes ttjs oo<f)ias elol Kal -qyefioves.
Xeyovot Se 8-qirov ov <f>avXa)s diro(f>aiv6p,evoi Trepl
T(hv <f>iXa)v, 01 Tvyxdvovcnv ovTes' dXXa tov deov
avrov <f>aot. Ttoieiv <f>iXovs avrovs, ayovTa Trap*
aAA^Aou?. Xeyovoi Se ttcjs Tavra, d>s iycp/xai,
aiSi-

aiei toi tov op,oiov dyei Oeos ojs tov op.oiov

Kac Troiet yvwpip.ov ovk evTTVXi)Kag tovtols


B

rj

tois eireaiv; "Eyaye, e<j)7). Ovkovv Kal tols


tojv crot/jtoTaTOJV ovyypdp,p,aoiv
ivTeTV)(r]Kas TavTa
aura Xeyovow, on to 0fJ.01.0v t<3 op,oua avdyKri
aei cf>lXov etvai; elol Se ttov ovtoi ol nepl <f>vaeu>s

to. post seel. Heindorf.


1

tTKoirovvTa.

4.0
LYSIS
he said, I declare Ican see no sort of shift. Can it
be, Menexenus, I asked, that all through there has
been something wrong with our inquiry ? I
think
there has, Socrates, said Lysis, and blushed as soon
as he said it ; for it struck me that the words escaped
him unintentionally, through his closely applying
his mind to our talk as he had noticeably done all
the time he was listening.
So then, as I wanted to give Menexenus a rest,
and was delighted with the other's taste for philo
sophy, I took occasion to shift the discussion over
to Lysis, and said : Lysis, I think your remark is
true, that if we were inquiring correctly we could
never have gone so sadly astray. Well, let us follow
our present line no further, since our inquiry looks to
me a rather hard sort of path : I think we had best
make for the point where we turned off, and be
guided by the poets for they are our fathers, as
;
it were, and conductors in wisdom. They, of course,
express themselves in no mean sort on the subject
of friends, where they happen to be found ; even
saying that God himself makes them friends by
drawing them to each other. The way they put it,
I believe, is something like this :

Yea, ever like and like together God doth draw,1

and so brings them acquainted ; or have you not


come across these verses ? Yes, I have, he replied.
And you have also come across those writings of
eminent sages, which tell us this very thing
that like must needs be always friend to like ? I
refer, of course, to those who debate or write about

1
Homer, Od. xvii. 218.
41
PLATO

re /cat rod oXov oiaXeyop.evoi /cat ypa<j>ovres -

rjv
rAp' ofiv, ev

8'
'AXyjOij, e(f>r], Xeyeis. eyw,
tit ttr t
Ateyovaiv; **tlaw?, o>
to

%
laws,

/
917. rjv o eyw,
r)iJ.io-v avrov, laws oe Kal tt&v, dXX r]p.els ov avv-
iep.ev. yap 7jp.1v o ye rrovrjpos rw novqpai,
8o/cei
oaw dv eyyvrepw Trpoalj] /cat p,aXXov 6p,iXfj, ro-
G

aovrw e)(8lwv ylyveadai. aSt/cet yap- dSiKovvras


oe Kal aoiKovp-evovs dSvvarov irov (plXovs etvai.
ovrws;
Nat, Tavrrj p,ev dv roivvv

8'
os.
rj
ox>x
rod Xeyop.evov ro qp.iav ovk dXrjdes etr), eiirep ol
TTOV7]pol dXXrjXois op.0101. 'AXrjOrj Xeyeis 'AAAa
fMOL
ookovoi Xeyeiv rovs dyadovs 6p,olovs etvai
dXXrjXois Kal <f>lXovs, rovs oe KaKovs, onep Kal
Xeyerai irepl avrwv, p.r]SeTrore o/jlolovs fJ-rjS
avrovs avrols etvai, dXX' ipnXrjKrovs re Kal
D

daradp-r/rovs' o 8e avro avrai avopoiov eirj /cat


Sid(f>opov, a\oXfj ye rw dXXw op.oi.ov (plXov ye-

rj
voiro- ov Kal arol SoKet ovrws; "Ep.oi.ye, e<prj.
rj

Tovro roivvv alvlrrovrai, ws efiol SoKodaiv,


w eraipe, oi ro op,oiov rw 6p,olw (plXov Xeyovres,
ojs dyados rw dyaOw povos p.6vw <f>iXos,
6

6
Se KaKos ovr' dyaOw ovre KaKw ovhenore els
dXyjdij <f>iXiav ep^erai. ovvSoKei 001; l&arevevaev .
"E^o/xev dpa tJSt] rives elcrlv ol <f>lXoi~ yap Xoyos
E

rjp.lv o~qp.alvei on 01 dv waiv dyadot. Haw ye,


e<f>r), SoKet.
Kat eyw- Kalroi hvo~xepalvw ri
8'

ep.01, rp> ye
ev avrw- cf>epe ovv, w npos Aids, iowp.ev ri /cat
VTTOTrrevw. opoios rw 6p.olw KaO' ooov opuoios
6

Kal eon roiovros rw roiovrw;


6

(f>lXos, -^p-qaip-os

42
^
LYSIS
nature and the universe.1 Quite so, he said. Well
now, I went on, are they right in what they say ?
Perhaps, he replied. Perhaps in one half of it, I
said ; perhaps in even the whole ; only we do not
comprehend it. We suppose that the nearer a wicked
man approaches to a wicked man, and the more
he consorts with him, the more hateful he becomes ;
for he injures him, and we consider it impossible
that injurer and injured should be friends. Is it
not so ? Yes, he answered. On this showing,
therefore, half of the saying cannot be true, if the
wicked are like one another. Quite so. What I
believe they mean is that the good are like one
another, and are friends, while the bad as is also
said of them are never like even their own selves,
being so ill-balanced and unsteady ; and when a
thing is unlike itself and variable it can hardly
* become like or friend to anything else. You must
( surely agree to that ? I do, he said. Hence I
i conclude there is a hidden meaning, dear friend,
intended by those who say that like is friend to
like, namely that the good alone is friend to the
good alone, while the bad never enters into true
I friendship with either good or bad. Do you agree ?
He nodded assent. So now we can tell what friends
| are ; since our argument discloses that they are any
| persons who may be good. I quite think so, said he.
And I also, said I ; and yet there is a point in
it that makes me uneasy : so come, in Heaven's
name, let us make out what it is that I suspect.
Is like friend to like in so far as he is like, and is
such an one useful to his fellow ? Let me put it
1
The attraction of like for like was an important force in
the cosmology of Empedocles (c. 475-415 b.c. ).
i 43
PLATO

p,aXXov Se cSSe- otiovv op.oiov otcoovv tLv6p.oiu>

uxfreXeiav e^ew t) riva jSAd/Jrjv av noirjaai Svvairo,


o p,rj Kal avro avra>; r) ri dv rradelv, o p,rj Kal
airov irddoi; to. Toiavra av vtt dX-

17
215 v<p ttu>s

XrjXcov dyaTT-qdelrj, p.rj8ep,lav emKOvplav aXX^Xois


eyovra; eoriv ottojs; Uvk ecrrw. U oe pvi)
AAAd

Sr)
ayancvTo, ttcus <f>lXov; OvSap,u>s.

6
p,ev op.oi.os ru) ofioitp ov (j>iXos' Se dyados t<3

6
dyadip Ka6' ooov dyados, ov xad ooov op.oios,
(piAos av euj; Loots. It oe; ov\ ayauos,

o
Kad' oaov dyados, /card tooovtov ikovos av eirj
avrut; Nat. '0 8c ye Itxavos ovSevos 8eop,evos
koto tt/v iKavorrjTa. Utos yap ov; '0 Se p,r]
B

tov 8eop,evos oi5Se ti ayatrayq av. Ov yap oSv.


"0 Se /at) dyaTTtpr], ovh" av cfuXot. Ou Sryra. 'O
Se /at) (fiiXaJv ye ov tf>lXos. Ov <f>aiverai,. Hois
oSv ol dyadol rols dyadois rjp.lv <f>iXot
eoovrai tt)v
dpxrjv, ol pyiyre airovres rrodeivol dXX-qXois
IkovoI
yap eavTots Kal ^wpi? ovres p.r\re Trapovres
Xpeiav avrwv er^ovai; roiovrovs tis
St)

roi)s
prixavr) Trepl ttoXXov rroieladai dXXrjXovs; OuSe-
/Ata, ecjyq. O1A01 Se ye ovk av etev /at) irepl ttoXXov
C

noiovp,evoi eavrovs. 'AXr/dfj.


"Ad pel St), cu At?(7i, irfj TrapaKpovop.eda. apa
ye SXoj Tivl iaTraTwp,eda; Ileus St); e<firj. "HSt/
TTOTe' tov rjrxovoa Xeyovros, Kal dpri dvap.ip.vri-
oKop,ai, on to p.ev op.oiov rep op.oi.qj /cat 01
dyadol toIs dyadois TroAe/ttcoTaroi efev Kal

Socrates seems to pass unwarrantably from the limited


1

to the unlimited meaning of " sufficient."

44
LYSIS
another way when anything whatever is like
:

anything else, what benefit can it offer, or what


harm can it do, to its like, which it could not offer
or do to itself ? Or what could be done to it that
could not be done to it by itself ? How can such
things be cherished by each other, when they can
bring no mutual succour ? Is it at all possible ?
No. And how can that be a friend, which is not
cherished ? By no means. But, granting that like
is not friend to like, the good may still be friend

to the good in so far as he is good, not as he is like ?

Perhaps. But again, will not the good, in so far


as he is good, be in that measure sufficient for
himself ? Yes. And the sufficient has no need of
anything, by virtue of his sufficiency.1 Of course;
And if a man has no need of anything he will not
cherish anything. Presumably not. And that
^

'
which does not cherish will not love. I should
think not. And one who loves not is no friend.
I Evidently. So how can we say that the good will
be friends to the good at all, when neither in absence

do they long for one another -for they are sufficient

for themselves even when apart nor in presence


'
have they need of one another ? How can it be
contrived that such persons shall value each other
By no means, he said. And if they do
'
highly ?
I not set a high value on each other, they cannot be
j
friends. True.
Now observe, Lysis, how we are missing the track.
Can it be, indeed, that we are deceived in the whole
matter ? How so ? he asked. Once on a time I
heard somebody say, and I have just recollected it,
that like was most hostile to like, and so were
good men to good men ; and what is more, he
45
PLATO
tov 'HoioSov fidprvpa,

817
kolI eTrrjyero Xeycov
cLs apa

/ecu Kepapevs Kepap,ei Koreei Kai aoi8os aoiSai


Kai ittcoxos TTTCOXV'

kcu rdAAa Trdvra ovrcos dvayKaiov elvai


D

or/ e<f>rj

p.aXioTa to o/xoiorara npos dXXr]Xa <f>96vov re /cat


Kai epnTiTrXaadai, rd dv-

8'
(piXoviKias e^dpas
ofioiorara (piXias. tov ydp nevqra tu> irXovoicp
dvayKa^eodai (f>lXov elvai Kai tov dcrdevrj tu> icr^u-
pQ> ttjs emKovpias eveKa, /cai tov KafivovTa rco
larpq)- Kai navra tov p.r) eiSora dyanav tov
Srj

elBoTa Kai Kai Kai en Tut

8r)
<f>iXeiv. ene^r/ei
Xoyop fieyaXoTrpeTreaTepov, Xeyayv cos apa ttovtos
Seoi to SfMOiov Tip 6p.oicp elvai, dAA' avro to
<f>iXov
evavriov elr] tovtov to yap evavTicoTarov rep ev-
E

avTHOTdrw elvai /zdAiora <f>LXov. emdvp.eiv yap


tov tolovtov eKaoTov, dAA' ov TOV OflOlOV to fiev
yap r)pdv vypov, to Se i})V)(p6v 8epp.ov, to Se
TTiKpov yAvKeos, to be ogv ap,pAeos, to be Kevov
TrXrjpcbcrecos, Kai to Kevwaecos'
TrXrjpes Kai Se
TCtAAa ovtco Kara tov avTov Xoyov. rpo<f>r)v
yap elvai to evavriov t<3 evavrlop- to yap opioiov
216 tov 6p,oiov ovSev av aTroXavaai. Krai p,evroi, d>

eraipet Kai Kop-tpos eSoKei elvai ravra Xeyojv ev


vp.lv Se, eyu>, 77x0s Sokci Xe-
8'

yap eXeyev.
r)v

yeiv; Et? ye, e<j>r) M.eveevos, ye ovrooai


6

u>s

aKovaai. Ocujuev apa to evavriov tu> evavneo


pdXiara <j>iXov elvai; Haw ye. IZlev, rjv
8'

ovk dXXoKOTOv, Meveijeve; Kai r/puv evOvs


&

eyd>-
dop-evoi eTMTTjorfoovTai oStoi 01 Trdaoo<f>oi avSpes,
Kai epr/aovTai ovk evavricora-
el

01 dvTiXoyiKoi,

46
LYSIS
put forward Hesiod as witness, by quoting his
'
words
See potter wroth with potter, bard with bard,
Beggar with beggar,1
and in all other cases it was the same, he said ;
likest things must needs be filled with envy, con
tention, and hatred against each other, but the
unlikest things with friendship : since the poor
man must needs be friendly to the rich, and the
weak to the strong, for the sake of assistance, and
also the sick man to the doctor ; and every ignorant
person had to cherish the well-informed, and love
him. And then the speaker pursued his theme to
this further and more imposing point that like
could not in the slightest degree be friendly to
like, but was in just the opposite case : for it was
between things most opposed that friendship was
; chiefly to be found, since everything desired its
'
opposite, not its like. Thus dry desired wet, cold
t hot, bitter sweet, sharp blunt, empty fullness, full
emptiness, and likewise the rest on the same principle :
for the opposite was food for its opposite, as the
like could have no enjoyment of its like. And I
'
must say, my good friend, his argument seemed a
smart one, for he expressed it well. But you, I
'
asked how does it strike you ? It sounds all
I right, said Menexenus, at least on the moment's
hearing. Then are we to say that the opposite is
most friendly to its opposite ? Certainly. Well, I
exclaimed, is it not monstrous, Menexenus ? Why,
at once these all-accomplished logic-choppers will
delightedly pounce on us and ask whether hatred
is not the most opposite thing to friendship. And
1
Works and Days, 25.
47
PLATO

B tov eyftpa <^iAt'a; ols ri dTTOKpt.vovp.e0a; rj ovk


dvdyKT] SfioXoyeZv on dXrjdrj Xeyovoiv; 'Ajxxy/07.
TAp' ovv, (f>rjoovcn, to e^Qpov tco tf>i,Xcp i)
<j&t'Aov to
tf>LXov tco
\dpu>; 0v8eTepa, ecf>rj. 'AAAa. to
Si'/caiov tco dSt/cai, tj to acocjjpov aKoXaaTcp, rj to
dyaOov tco KaKco; Ovk dv p.01 8o/ct ovtcos e^etv.

rjv
'AAAa /xevToi, ttjv evavTio-
eyco, elirep ye /cara

8'
TTfjrd ti tco tf>LXovl eoriv, dvdyK-q Kal ravTa tf>L\a.
etvai. AvdyK-q. Ovt dpa to op.oiov o/xotaj
ovre to evavTiov tco evavTico tf>iXov. Ovk eot/cev.
"En Se Kal rdSe oKeificop,eOa, p,r) ert p,aXXov 17/xa?
C

XavOdvei to <f>iXov cos aXrjOcos ov8ev tovtcov ov, aAAct


to p,rp-e dyaOov pvqTe kclkov cf>lXov ovrco zroxe
yt.yv6p.evov tov dyadov. Yicos, os, Xeyeis;

8'
l)
'AAAa p,d Aia, rp> eycb, ovk oJSa, dAAd tco ovti
8'

atirds elXiyyito vtto ttjs tov Xoyov drroplas, Kal


Kiv8vvevei /card ttj^ dp%alav Trapoip,iav to kclXov
tfiLXov etvai. eot/ce yovv p,aXaKco tivi Kal Xeico /cat
Xnrapcp- 816 /cat lotos pa8uos 8ioXia0aivei /cat
D

StaSueTat T)p.as, are toiovtov ov. Xeyco yap myo-


66v KaXov etvai- ov ovk oiei; "Eycoye.
8'

Aeycu
Toivvv aTTop.avTev6p.evos, tov koXov re /cat dyadov
<f>lXov etvai
to pvqTe ayaOov p,r\Te KaKov irpos a. 8e
Xeycov p.avTevop,ai, aKovoov. 80/cet p.01 cotnrepel
Tpia arra etyat yevt), to p,ev dyaOov, to 8e /ca/coV,
to o out ayavov ovre KaKov ti oe aot; xVat epcoi,
Kat ovTe TayaOov TayaOcp ovre to KaKov tco
E

ecf>rj.

Cornarius t$
1

re? <j>i\ov tpi\(f> <pi\ov, t< <f>L\ov <pi\ov mss.


:

The proverb, of course, used in the sense of " dear."


1

iplXov
48
LYSIS
what answer shall we give them ? Shall we not be
forced to admit that what they say is true ? We
shall. So then, they will demand, is a hating thing
friend to the friendly thing, or the friendly to the
hating ? Neither, he replied. But is the just a
friend to the unjust, or the temperate to the
profligate, or the good to the bad ? I do not think
that could be so. But yet, I urged, if one thing is
friend to another on this principle of opposition,
these things too must needs be friends. They
must. So neither is like friend to like, nor opposite
friend to opposite. It seems not.
But there is still this point to consider ; for perhaps
we are yet more mistaken, and the friendly has really
nothing to do with all this : it may rather be some
thing neither good nor bad that will prove after all
to be what we call friend of the good. How do you
mean ? he asked. For the life of me, I said, I
cannot tell : the fact is, I am quite dizzy myself
with the puzzle of our argument, and am inclined
to agree with the ancient proverb that the beautiful
is friendly.1 It certainly resembles something soft
and smooth and sleek ; that is why, I daresay, it so
easily slides and dives right into us, by virtue of
those qualities. For I declare that the good is
beautiful : do you not agree ? I do. Then I will
be a diviner for once, and state that what is neither
good nor bad is friendly to what is beautiful and
good ; and what it is that prompts me to this
divination, you must now hear. My view is that
there are three separate kinds, as it were the good,
the bad, and what is neither good nor bad ; and
what is yours ? Mine is the same, he replied. And
that neither is the good friendly to the good, nor
vol.. v e 49
PLATO

Ka.Ka> ovts rayaOov ru> KaKcp <f>lXov


elvai, wairep
ovo' 6 ep.irpoadev Xoyos eor XelneTai 8-q, elnep rip ti
eon <f>[Xov, to pryre dyadov prqre KaKov tftlXov elvai
fj tov ayadov rj tov toiovtov olov avTO eoTiv. ov
yap dv ttov tu> KaKut <f>lXov dv ti yevoiTO. 'AXr/Oyj.
0v8e prjv to opoiov tu> opoloj e<j>ap.ev dpTf tj
yap; Nai. Ovk apa ecrrai tu> pr/Te ayadcp pi-qTe
KaKut to toiovtov </>lXov
otov avTO. Ov <f>aiveTa.i.
Tai dyada> apa to pf]Te dyadov pryre KaKov p.6va>
217 povov ovpfialvet, yiyveadai (f>lXov. AvayKr], a>?
COlKV.
Ap ow Kai KaAcos,
eyw, co Traioes, v<p-
rp> o
rjyeiTai rjplv to vvv Xeyopevov ; el yovv d4.Xoifj.ev
evvoijoai to vyialvov owpa, ovSev laTpiKrjs Setxat
ovo' w<j>eXlas' Ikovws yap e^ei, tSore vyiaivcov
ovoels larpw <f>lXos Sia ttjv vyieiav. ij yap;
Oioeis. 'AAA' 6 Kapvwv, otp,ai, Sia. ttjv voaov.
Hu>s yap ov;
8rj

Noao? pev tcaxov, larpiicr) 8e


w<f>eXtpov Kal dyadov. Nai. ZcD/na 8e ye ttov
Kara to owpa ewai ovt ayadov ovTe KaKov.
AvayKat,eTat, oe ye owpa Sid voaov la-
'

Outo)?.
B

TpiKTjv aona^eadai /cat <j)iXeiv. Ao/cei pot. To


prjTe KaKov dpa prfr ayadov <f>lXov yiyverai tov
dyadov Sid. KaKov Trapovoiav. "Eoi/cev. ArjAov
Se ye on, irplv yeveodai avro KaKov viro tov KaKov
ofi exl- ov Y-P Ye Kal<ov yeyovos Iti dv ti1
^V

tov ayadov emdvpol Kal (jtiXov elrj- dovvaTov yap


e<f>apev KaKov dyad at <f>lXov elvai. 'ASvvaTov yap.
C

TiKeipaode o Xeyw. Xeyw yap oti evia pev, otov


S17

n C. Schmidt &vr\ mss.


1

&v
:

50
LYSIS
the bad to the bad, nor the good to the bad ; so
much our previous argument already forbids. One
view then remains : if anything is friendly to any
thing, that which is neither good nor bad is friendly
to either the good or what is of the same quality
as itself. For I presume nothing could be found
friendly to the bad. True. Nor, however, can like
be friendly to like : this we stated just now, did
we not ? Yes. So what is neither good nor bad
can have no friendship with the same sort of thing
as itself. Apparently not. Then only what is
neither good nor bad proves to be friendly to the
good, and to that only. That must be so, it seems.
Then can we rely further on this present state
ment, my boys, I said, as a sure guide ? For
instance, we have only to consider a body in health
to see that it has no need of doctoring or assistance :

lit is well enough as it is, and so no one in health


is friend to a doctor, on account of his health. You
agree? Yes. But the sick man is, I imagine, on
account of his disease. Certainly. Now disease is
a bad thing, and medicine is beneficial and good.
Yes. And a body, of course, taken as body, is
neither good nor bad. That is so. But a body is
compelled by disease to welcome and love medicine.
I think so. Thus what is neither bad nor good
; becomes a friend of the good because of the presence

of evil. So it seems. But clearly this must be


before it is itself made evil by the evil which it has ;
for surely, when once it has been made evil, it can
no longer have any desire or love for the good ;
since we agreed it was impossible for bad to be a
friend of good. Yes, impossible. Now observe
what I say. Some things are of the same sort as

51
PLATO

av fj to rrapov, roiavrd eari Kal avrd, eVia Se ov.


uMJirep el edeXoi ns xp(i)p.ari tu> otiovv d\ei-
ifiai, rrdpeari ttov ra> dXei(f>devTL to eTTaXei<f>94v.
Ildvv ye. TAp' oSv /cat eon Tore tolovtov tt)v
Xpoav to dXei^dev,1 olov to emov*; Ov p,avdavco, rj
D ' os. 'AAA' coSe, tjv 8' eyw. et tLs aov avdas
ovaras ras r/3i%as' ijii,p,v9ia) dXeiifieie, irorepov Tore
3

evKai eiev rj (pawowr av; <voivoi,vt av,


r) o os.
Kai p,rjv irapebt) y av avrals XevKorrjs. Nat.
'AAA' op.ws ovSev Tt pbaXXov av elev XevKai ttoj, aAAd
rrapovo-qs XevKOTrjros ovre tl XevKal ovre p,eXa.ivai
elaiv. 'AXrjdfj. 'AAA' orav 8tf, w (filXe, to yrjpas
avrats rairov tovto xpo~)p,a errayayr], Tore eyevovro
E otovnep to Trapov, XevKov rtapovaia XevKai. Tlots
yap ov; Tovto toLvvv eputrco vvv Sr/, el a) av ti
rrapfj, toiovtov earai to e;\w olov to Trapov rj iav
p,ev Kara riva rporrov Trapfj, earai, edv he p,r), ov;
vrco p,aAAov, ecprj. Hat to p,rjre KaKov apa fJ.rjr
dyadov eviore Kaxov rrapovros ovrru> KaKov eo-rw,
eon S' ore rjSr] to toiovtov yeyovev. ITavu ye.
Ovkovv orav KaKov fj KaKov rrapovros, auri)
pvtyno>
p,ev r) rrapovaia dyadov avro rroieZ eTndvp,euv r) Se
KaKov rroiovaa d-noarepei avro rijs re imdvixCas
d/xa Kal ttjs (f)i,Xlas rod dyadov. oil yap en earlv
218 ovre /ca/cdv ovre dyadov, dXXd Kaxov fylXov Se
dyadu) KaKov1 ovk r)v. Ov yap ovv. Atd ravra
<f>aip.ev av Kal rovs
8f]

17877 aotfrovs p,r)Keri <f>iAo-

aXeupBiv Heindorf: e7raX00^e mss.


1

iiribv Heindorf fri 6v mss.


2

t6tc Heindorf: ttotc mss.


8

aya.8$ KaKbv Heindorf: i.yaS&v kuki} T: ayaBbv Bt.


*

KaK<p

52
LYSIS
those that are present with them, and some are
not. For example, if you chose to dye something
a certain colour, the substance of the dye is present,
I presume, with the thing dyed. Certainly. Then
is the thing dyed of the same sort, in point of colour,
as the substance that is added ? I do not under
stand, he said. Well, try it this way, I went on :
suppose some one tinged your golden locks with
white lead, would they then be or appear to be
white ? Yes, they would so appear, he replied.
And, in fact, whiteness would be present with
them ? Yes. But all the same they would not
be any the more white as yet ; for though whiteness
be present, they are not at all white, any more
than they are at all black. True. But when, my
dear boy, old age has cast that same colour upon
them, they have then come to be of the same
sort as that which is present white through
presence of white. To be sure. So this is the
question I have been trying to put to you whether
a thing that has something present with it is to be
held of the same sort as that present thing ; or
is it only when that thing is present in a particular
way, but otherwise not ? More likely the latter,
he said. So that what is neither bad nor good is
sometimes, when bad is present, not bad as yet,
and such cases have been known to occur. Certainly.
When therefore it is not bad as yet, though bad is
present, this presence makes it desire good ; but
the presence which makes it bad deprives it equally
of its desire and its love for the good. For it is no
longer neither bad nor good, but bad ; and we found
that bad was no friend to good. No, indeed. And
consequently we may say that those who are already
53
PLATO

0eol e'ire dvOpanroi elaiv ovroi' ovo' av


ao(f>eiv, e'ire
eKeivovs <f>iXoao<f>etv rovs ovtcos dyvoiav exovras
ware kclkovs eiraf ko.k6v yap Kal dfiadrj ovoeva
ol e^ovreg fjiev ro kclkov

Srj
<f>iXooo<f>eiv . Xeiirovrai
rovro, rr\v dyvoiav, pvrynui Se vtt' avrov ovres dyvoi-
fioves [irjoe dfiadels, dXX' en r]yovp,evoi p.r) eiSevai a
pr) laaai. Kai <f>t,Xoao<f>ovoiv ol ovre dyadol

Srj
Sid
B

ovre KaKoiTra) ovres' oaoi Se KaKoi, ov <f)iXooo<f>ovaiv

,
ovoe ol dyadol' ovre. yap ro evavriov rov evavriov
ovre ro ofioiov rov dfiolov ilXov rjfuv icf>dvr) ev rois
epnrpoaOev Xoyois. ov (iep,vr]o9e IldVu ye,

;
?}

Nw dpa, eyw, w Aval re ko.1


rjv

8'
ec/)drr]v.
Meveeve, iravros fiaXXov e^rjvp-qKafjiev ecrri to

8
(j>lXov Kal ov. (j>ap,ev yap avro, Kai Kara rrjv
<pvXVv Ka' Kara ro aw\xa Kal iravraxov, to fj,rjre
C

KaKov [L-ryre dyadov Sid KaKov irapovalav rov dya


dov <j>lXov elvai. Havrdiraoiv e<f)drrjv re Kal
avvex<*>peirr)v ovrto rovr e^eiv.
Kai
8rj

Krai avros eyw ndvv ej^aipov, ajcnrep


Oy]pevrrjS ris, e^a>v dyanrjrws o e0r)pev6fj,r]v .
Karreir ovk 018' OTrodev p.01 droTrwrdrr/ ris inroifjia
elafjXdev, (lis ovk dXyjOrj eirj ra wfioXoyrjiMeva rj/Xiv
Kal dxdeaOels elirov Bapai, w Aval re Kal
evOiis
Meve^eve, Kiv8vvevop,ev ovap rreTrXovrrjKevai.
D Tt fidXiara; e<f>r] Mevegevos.
6

eydi, fir] warrep dvdpoinois dXa-


S'
tfv

0oj8o>ju.ai,
t,6ai Xoyois rial roiovrois [if/evoeaiv]1 evrervyr\-
Kap.ev Trepl rov <f>iXov.
Ilaj? 8-q; e<f>rj.

seel. Heindorf.
1

\j/evSiaiv
54
LYSIS
wise no longer love wisdom, whether they be gods
or men ; nor again can those be lovers of wisdom
who are in such ignorance as to be bad : for we
know that a bad and stupid man is no lover of wisdom.
And now there remain those who, while possessing
this bad thing, ignorance, are not yet made ignorant
or stupid, but are still aware of not knowing the
things they do not know. It follows, then, that
those who are as yet neither good nor bad are lovers
of wisdom, while all who are bad, and all the good,
are not : for, as we found in our previous discussion,
neither is opposite friend to opposite, nor like to
like. You remember, do you not ? To be sure we
do, they both replied. So now, Lysis and Mene-
xenus, I said, we can count on having discovered
what is the friendly and what is not. For we say
that, in the soul and the body and everywhere,
just that which is neither bad nor good, but has
the presence of bad, is thereby friend of the good.
To this statement they said that they entirely
agreed.
And, beyond that, I was myself filled with delight,
like a hunter, at the satisfaction of getting hold of
what I was hunting ; when somehow or other a most
unaccountable suspicion came over me that the
conclusion to which we had agreed was not true.
So at once I exclaimed in vexation : Alack-a-day,
Lysis and Menexenus ! I fear our new-gotten
riches are all a dream.
How on earth is that ? said Menexenus.
I am afraid, I replied, that in our search for
friendship we have struck up with arguments that
are no better than a set of braggarts.
How so ? he asked.
55
PLATO
ilSe, tjv 8' yd>, OKOira>p,ev (f>lXos os av eif],
TTorepov earl ov; 'AvdyKT], e<f>rj.
<f>lXos r)
Uorepov ovv ovSevos eveKa Kal 8t' ovSev, 7} eveKa
rov Kal Sid Tt; "EveKa rov koi 81a ti. Uorepov
(j>lXov ovros eKelvov rov irpa.yp.aros, ov eveKa (JjIXos
o cf>lXos ra> <f>lXw, f/ ovre ovre ex^pov; Ov <f>lXov

E Trow, e<f>rj, erropiai. Ei/cotojs' ye, eydf aAA'

rjv
8'
d>Se locos aKoXovdrjoeis olp,ai oe /cat eyoo p,S.XXov

,
ti rov

S17
etao/xat o Xeya>. Kap.voov, vvv e^ap.ev,1

6
larpov <ftiXos' Nat.
ot>x Ovkovv ovrcas; Sid
voaov eveKa iyielas rov larpov <f>lXos; Nat. 'H
ye voaos KaKov; lla>s o ov; It oe uyieia,-
e

ovoerepa; 'AyaOov ,
fy
8'

eyco- ayadov KaKov


>}

219 EAeyo/xev dpa, a>s eoiKev, on ro aa>p.a,


8

C91J-
ovre ayaOov ovre KaKov <ov>,2 8ta rrjv voaov, rovro
8e 81a. to KaKov, rr\s larpiKrjs <f>lXov iarlv ayadov
8e larpucq- eveKa he rfjs iyielas T17V (fnXlav

r)
larpiKTj dvfjprjrar oe iyleia ayaOov. tfydp; Nat.
17

QlXov 8e ov <f>lXov vyleia; <S>lXov. 'H Se


rj
77

voaos e^dpov. Ylavv ye. To ovre KaKov ovre


aya#oV dpa 8td to KaKov Kal ro i^Opov rov ayadov
B

<f)lXov iarlv eveKa rov ayadov Kal <j>lXov. Qalverai.


"Evck' dpa rov <f>lXov <rov <j>lXov>3 ro (f>lXov </)lXov
81a ro ex&pov. "KoiKev.
lev, rjv eireiorj evravva T)Kop.ev, <x>
eyw.
o

rraioes, rrpoaaxoop-ev rov vovv /lit) i^aTrarrjdtop.ev .


on p.ev yap <f>lXov rov <f>iXov ro <f>iXov yeyovev, ecu
Heindorf ipa/iiv mss.
1

l<f>ay.ev
:

6v add. Heindorf.
2

tou add. Burnet .post ri (f>l\ov add. Hermann.


*

<pl\ov
:

56
LYSIS
Just consider a moment, I said. When a man is
a friend, is he friend to some one or not ? He needs
must be, he replied. Then is he so for the sake of
nothing and because of nothing, or for the sake of
something and because of something ? For the
sake of something, and because of something. Is

it a friend that thing for whose sake he is a friend
to his friend or is it neither friend nor foe ? I do
not quite follow, he said. Naturally enough, said I ;
but perhaps you will keep up if we try it another way,
and I expect that I too will better understand what
I am saying. The sick man, we said just now, is a
friend to the doctor ; is not that so ? Yes. Then
is it because of disease, for the sake of health, that
he is a friend of the doctor ? Yes. And disease is
a bad thing ? Of course. But what is health ?
I asked : a good thing, or a bad, or neither ? A
good thing, he said. And we were saying, I believe,
that the body, being neither good nor bad, was a
friend of medicine that is, of a good thing because
of disease that is, because of a bad thing ; and it
is for the sake of health that medicine has acquired
this friendship, and health is a good thing. You
agree ? Yes. Is health a friend or not ? A friend.
And disease is a foe ? Certainly. So what is
neither bad nor good is a friend to the good because
of what is bad and a foe for the sake of what is
good and a friend. Apparently. Hence the friend
is a friend of its friend for the sake of its friend and
because of its foe. So it seems.
Very well, I said : since we have reached this
point, my boys, let us take good heed not to be
deceived. I pass over without remark the fact
that the friend has become a friend to the friend,
57
PLATO

Xaupew, /cat tov ofioiov ye to ofioiov <f>lXov yiyverat,


o e<f>ap,ev dovvaTov elvar dXX' op,a>s r68e OKeijjoj-
C p.eda, fir/ r/fids eijaTTaTrjarj to vvv Xeyop,evov . 17

IcLTpiKrj, <f>afiev, eveKa Trjs vyielas </>lXov. Nat.


Ovkovv Kal 77 vyleia <j)iXov; Haw ye. Et dpa
<j>lXov, eveKa tov. Nat. <f>iXov twos S77,
ye
enrep aKoXovd-qaei tt} vpooOev 6p,oXoyla. YIdvv
ye. Ovkovv Kal eKelvo <f>lXov
av eorai eveKa
<f>iXov; Nat. fAp' oSv ovk
dvdyKr/ airenreZv
77/na?ovtcos lovras, f] a<j>iKea6ai e-ni Tiva ap^rfv,

r] ovKeT eTravoiaei eir aAAo (piAov, aAA rjget. e-n


eKelvo o eon irpa>Tov <j>LXov, ov eveKa Kal to. dXXa
D (f>ap.ev 77aWa cf>lXa elvai; 'AvdyKrj. Tovro 877
eoriv o Xeyio, p.rj rjp.as to. dXXa navra a einofiev
eKeivov eveKa <f>LXa
elvai, wonep elSioXa arra ovra
avrov, i^anaTa, 77 8 eKelvo to Trp&rov, o <lis aXrjOaJs
earl <f>lXov. ewor\au>p,ev ydp ovrcoai- OTav1 tIs ti
neplttoXXov TrocfJTai, olovirep evloTe TraTTjp vlov ovtI
TravTOtv tow dXXwv xpr]p.aTcov npoTip.a, 6 tolov-
877

tos eveKa tov tov vlov nepi TtavTOS r/yela9ai apa


Kal dXXo Tt av irepl ttoXXov ttoloIto; olov alaOd-
el
E

voito avTov Kwveiov Tre-rroiKOTa, apa irepi ttoXXov


ttoioIt' av otvov, elnep tovto r/yolTO tov vlov
adiaeuv; Ti pvf\v; e<f>r). Ovkovv Kal to dyyelov,
otvos eVei'77; Hdvv ye. TAp' ovv totc
<L

ev
6

oioev nepl TrXelovos TTOteiTat, KvXiKa Kepap,eav


77

tov vlov tov avrov, ovSe Tpels KOTvXas olvov tov


77

&rav Stephanas &v mss.


1

&
:

58
LYSIS
and thus the like becomes a friend to the like,
which we said was impossible. There is, however,
a further point which we must examine, if we are
not to find our present argument a mere deception.
Medicine, we say, is a friend for the sake of health.
Yes. Then is health a friend also ? Certainly. And
if it is a friend, it is so for the sake of something.
Yes. And that something is a friend, if it is to
conform to our previous agreement. Quite so.
Then will that something be, on its part also, a
friend for the sake of a friend ? Yes. Now are
we not bound to weary ourselves with going on in
this way, unless we can arrive at some first
principle which will not keep leading us on from
one friend to another, but will reach the
one original friend, for whose sake all the other
things can be said to be friends ? We must. So
you see what I am afraid of that all the other
things, which we cited as friends for the sake of
that one thing, may be deceiving us like so many
phantoms of it, while that original thing may be the
veritable friend. For suppose we view the matter
thus : when a man highly values a thing, as in the
common case of a father who prizes his son above
all his possessions, will such a man, for the sake of
placing his son before everything, value anything
else highly at the same time ? For instance, on
learning that he had drunk some hemlock, would
he value wine highly if he believed it would save
his son's life ? Why, of course, he said. And the
vessel too which contained the wine ? Certainly.
Now does he make no distinction in value, at that
moment, between a cup of earthenware and his
own son, or between three pints of wine and his

59
PLATO
viov; r) cSSe ttojs e'x6'' ""Sera r/ toiclvtt) 0*77011877 ovk
enl tovtois earlv ioTTovSaofxevr), em tois eveKa rov
napaoKevaiClop.evoi,s, dAA err eKeivoj, ov eveKa navra
220 to. roiaCramxpaaKevd^eTat. ovx otl rroXXaKis
Xeyofxev, (bs Trepl ttoXXov Troiovp,eda xpvcriov k<u
dpyvpwv dXXa p,r) ovSev tl paXXov ovtco to ye
dXrjdes XV> <*M' ^KeXvo ecrnv o Trepl navTos ttolov-
[ie6a, o dv (jxivfj ov, drov eveKa /cai %pvoiov Krai
Trdvra to TtapaaKeva'Cpp.eva napa.aKevdt^era.i. dp
ovtcos ; Udvv ye.
<f>rjOop.ev Ovkovv Kau irepi rov
<f>iXov
6 avros Xoyos; oaa ydp (fra/Aev <f>lXa ewai rjfilv
B eveKa <j>LXov twos eTepov,1 pi] /J,aTi ^aivo/xeda Xeyovres
avro' <f>CXov 8e tw ovtc Kw8vvevei eKelvo avro etvai,
els o Traaai a*5rai at Xeyop^evai 0iAi'ai TeXevTCoaw .
KivSvvevei ovtcos, e<fyq, exew. Ovkovv to ye tw
ovti <f>lXov ov <f>lXov twos eveKa <f>LXov ioTiv; 'AX-qdrj.
Tovro aTrrjXXaKTai, [Mr) (f>iXov twos eveKa
8i)

[j,ev
to <f>lXov cfilXov etvaf dAA' apa to dyadov eoTc <f>i-
Xov; "E^ioiye 8oKel. TA/>' ovv Sid to KaKov to
dyadov <f>iXeiTai, Kal e^ei cSSe- ei Tpicov ovtojv cov
C

vvv Kal KaKov Kal ivfyre ayaBov


8r)

eXeyop,ev, dyaOov
/X.7JT6 KaKov, rd 8vo Xei<j>8elr), to 8e KaKov eKTroScbv
djreXdot. Kal p,rj8evds e<f>diTTOi,TO p,ryre ocoLiaTOS
fJ.r/T
tcov a aura KaO* avTa
8r)

*fiv)(rjs pvryre dXXa>v, <f>ap,ev


oxne KaKa etvai out' dya0d, dpa Tore ov8ev dv rj/xlv
Xprjoip.ov elrj to dyaOov, dXX dxprjoTOV dv yeyovds
eirj; ei yap ixrjdev r)pas en pAaTTTOi, ovoev av
oi8ep,ias ax^eAi'aj 8eolp,eda, Kai ovtco dv tot
817
D

crtpov Hermann ertpip mss.


1
.

Socrates here strangely confuses the cause (t6 Std tl)


1

with the object in view (rd Si/ck& tou), which he carefully


distinguished in the case of medicine (219 a).
60
LYSIS
son ? Or may we perhaps state it thus : all such
concern is not entertained for the actual things
which are applied for the sake of something, but
for that something for whose sake all the rest are
applied ? I know that we often talk of setting
great value on gold and silver : but surely we are
no nearer the truth of the matter for that ; what we
rather value above everything is the thing whatever
it may prove to be for whose sake gold and all
the other commodities are applied. May we state
it so ? By all means. Then shall we not give the
same account of a friend ? In speaking of all the
things that are friends to us for the sake of some
other friend, we find ourselves uttering a mere
" "
phrase ; whereas in reality friend appears to be
simply and solely the thing in which all these so-
called friendships terminate. So it appears, he
said. Then the real friend is a friend for the sake
of nothing else that is a friend ? True.
So we have got rid of this, and it is not for the
sake of some friendly thing that the friend is friendly.
But now, is the good a friend ? I should say so.
And further, it is because of the bad that the good
is loved x ; let me state the case as follows : there

are three things of which we have just been speaking

good, bad, and what is neither good nor bad. If


but two of these remained after evil had been cleared
away, so that it had no contact with anything,
whether body or soul or any of the other things
that we count neither bad nor good in themselves,
would the result be that good would be of no use
to us, but would have become quite a useless thing ?
For if there were nothing left to harm us, we should
feel no want of any assistance ; and thus we should

61
PLATO
yevono KardSrjXov on Sid to ko.k6v rdyaOov r)yaTTto -
fX.V KO.I i<f>l\oVfJLV , d)S {fxip/jLCLKOV OV TOV KCLKOV TO

ayadov, to Se KaKov v6aT]p.am voo~qp.aTOS Se (Mr)


ovtos ovSev Set <f>apfia,KOV. dp' ovtoj Tre<f>VKe t Kal
(friXeiTat, rdyadov Sid to kolkov v<j>' r\p,G>v, twv p,eTav
ovtcov tov kclkov T Kai TayaOov, avro Se eavTov
eveKa ov8ep,lav \peiav e^ei; "EoiKev, 77 8' os,
ovtojs Xelv- To &Pa <l>lXov ~h^v eKelvo, els o
E eVeAeura ndvTa rd ctAAa eveKa erepov <f>lXov <f>lAa.
e<j>ap,ev etvai e/ceiva ouSev [Se]1 tovtois eoiKev.
TavTa p.ev yap <f>iXov
eveKa <f>tXa Ke/cAijTai, to Se tCo
ovti <f>lXov Trav tovvovtLov tovtov <f>atveTai ve^VKos'
<f>lXov yap rjp.lv dve^dvrj ov eydpov eveKa' el Se to
e)(dpov arreXdoi, ovkcti, ojs eoLK , kod Tjfiuv <j)l\ov .

Ov fioi 8oKel, ye vvv XeyeTai.


e<f>r), u>s Uorepov ,
rjv o eya), irpos &ios, eav to KaKov airoArjTai, ovoe
221 neivfjv en eorai ovSe Sufifjv ov8e dXXo ovBev tujv
tolovtojv; rrelvrj p,ev eoTai, eavrrep dvdpcDTrol Te
r)
Kal TaXXa a>a ov p,evTOi fiAafiepd ye; Kal olipa
fj,

Kal al dAAai imdvfiiai, aXX' ov KaKal, are tov


8r)

KaKov aTToXojXoTOS yeXoTov to epu>Trjp,a, o ti


rj
;

ttot eorai Tore p,r) eorai; t yap oioev; aAA


i]

oSv rdSe ye top,ev, 0V1 Kal vvv earn ireaiGivTo. /?Aa-


Trreodai, eoTi Se Kal oj(f>eXelo6ai. rjydp; Yldvvye.
Ovkovv Kal huftwvTa Kal twv oXXujv tu>v toiovtcov
vdvTOJV eariv evi'ore p.ev
B

e7Ti.6vp,ovvTa oj<f>eXlfj.ojs
eTndvp.elv, evioTe oe fiXafSepcos, eWore Se p,rj8eTepa;
2</>oSpa ye. Ovkovv edv aTroXXvrjTai rd ica/ca,

om. Comarius Heindorf.


1

5^ 5tj
:

62
LYSIS
have to face the fact that itwas because of the bad
that we felt such a friendly affection for the good,
since the good is a cure for the bad, while the bad
is an ailment, and if there is no ailment there is no
need for a cure. Is not this the nature of the good
to be loved because of the bad by us who are midway
between the bad and the good, whereas separately
and for its own sake it is of no use ? Apparently so,
"
he said. Then our friend," in which all the other
"
things terminated we called them friends for the
"
sake of some other friend has no resemblance to
these. For they are described as friends for the
sake of a friend : but the real friend appears to
have quite the opposite character ; for we found it
to be a friend for the sake of a foe, and if the foe
should be removed we have no friend, it seems, any
more. I should say not, he assented, to judge by
our present argument. Tell me, I beg of you, I
went on, if evil is abolished, will it be impossible
any longer to feel hunger or thirst or other such
conditions ? Or will hunger exist, so long as men
and animals exist, but without being hurtful ?
Thirst, too, and all other desires will these exist
without being bad, because the bad will have been
abolished ? Or is this a ridiculous question as
to what will exist or not exist in such a case ? For
who can tell ? Yet this, at all events, we do know
that, as things are now, it is possible for a man to
feel hunger as a hurt, and also to be benefited by it.
You agree ? Certainly. And so, when a man feels
thirst or any other desire of the sort, he may have
that desire sometimes with benefit, sometimes
with harm, and sometimes with neither ? Quite so.
Now if evil things are abolished, is there any reason
63
PLATO
d ye jx-q rvy^dvei ovra Trpoar/Kei tols /ca/cd, ri
/ca/cofc ovvanoXXvad ai; Oi58eV. "Eowtoi dpa. at
pvqre ayadal KaKal emdvLilat, Kal iav <xtt-
fir/re
oXrjrai to. /ca/cd. Olov re ovv ecrrlv
OatVerat.
em9vp,owra /cat epcovra rovrov 06 imOv/xel teal
ipa fir) <f>iXeiv; Ovk ep,oiye 80/cei. "Ecrrai apa
/cat rcov /ca/caiv aTroXop,evojv , cbs eot/ce, <f>DC arret..
C I\at. Uvk av, ei ye to kclkov airiov i\v tov
<plXov ti etvai, ovk dv

ijV
rovrov diroXoLievov cj>iXov
erepov erepep. alrias yap dnoXop,evrjS dovvarov
ttov 7]V er eKelvo etvai, ov Op-

fjv
aurij atTta.

17
dtos Aeyets. Ovkovv cbp,oX6yr]rai rjp,tv ro <f>LXov
tf>iXelv ti Kal 8ta /cat toirjdrjpiev rare ye 8td to
xaKov ro firrre dyadov psfpre /ca/cd ro ayadov

v
D ^lAetv; 'AXrjdfj. Nvv 8e ye, a? eot/ce, </>aiverai
dXXrj ti? air La rov ^tAetv re /cat (friXelodai. "Eot-
/cev. *Ap' ow rep ovti, coenrep dpri eXeyop,ev,

17
emdvp.la rfjs (fiiXLas atrta, /cat to imOvfiovv (piXov
earl rovrco ov imOvfiet Kal rore orav emdvfifj, 0
Se to irporepov eXeyop.ev cf>LXov
etvai, vdXos ns rjv,
cooirep Trol-qpia fxaKpov ovyKelp,evov KtrSwedet,
;

'AAAd ueWot, r\v iyto, ro ye em.6vp.ovv,


8'

e<f>7].
oS dv eVSee? rovrov eiri9vp,ei. yap; Nat.
E

rj

77,
o apa cpiAov eKetvov ov av evoees 77;
evoees
o

Ao/cet /xot. 'EvSees 8e yt'yverat ofi dv Tt1 d^>-


aiprjrai. ou; Tou ot/cet'ou S77, cos eot/cev, 0
II
8'

cos
Te epcoj /cat <f>t,Xla Kal imdvpuia rvyxdvei ovaa,
17

17

cos <f>aiverai, co M.eveeve re Kal Aval. HLvvetpar-qv .

ti. Stephanus tis


1

MBS.
:

i.e. things that are proper or congenial to one.


1

64.
LYSIS

i why the things that are not evil should be abolished


along with the evil ? None. So that those desires
[
which are neither good nor bad will exist even when
the bad things are abolished. Apparently. Now is
it possible for a man, when he desires and loves,
to have no friendly feeling towards that which he
desires and loves ? I think not. Thus certain
things will continue to be friendly, it seems, when
evil things are abolished. Yes. It cannot be that,
if evil were the cause of a thing being friendly,
one thing should be friendly to another when evil
is abolished. For when a cause is abolished, that
thing can no longer exist, I presume, which had this
I as its cause. You are right. Now we have agreed
'that the friend has a friendly feeling for something
and because of something ; and we supposed, just
then, that it was because of evil that what was
'neither good nor bad loved the good. True. But
now, it seems, we make out a different cause of
loving and being loved. It seems so. Can it really
'

be then, as we were saying just now, that desire is


the cause of friendship, and the desiring thing is a
friend to what which it desires, and is so at any
time of desiring ; while our earlier statement
about friends was all mere drivel, like a poem
strung out for mere length ? It looks like it, he
i said. But still, I went on, the desiring thing desires
'
that in which it is deficient, does it not ? Yes.
And the deficient is a friend to that in which it is
deficient ? I suppose so. And it becomes deficient
in that of which it suffers a deprivation. To be
sure. So it is one's own belongings,1 it seems, that
are the objects of love and friendship and desire ;
so it appears, Menexenus and Lysis. They both
vol. v f 65
PLATO

'Y/iels dpa el earov dXXrjXois, <f>vaei ttjj


<f>iXoi
oiKetot eo6' vp.iv airois. KofxiSfj, e<f>drr]v. Kai

rjv
222 el dpa ris erepos erepov emdvp-ei, eyco, cu

8
Tralhes, epa, ovk av irore eiredvp,ei ov8e rjpa ouSe

el t)
i<f>iXei, firj olKeios 7777 rep eptopievcp ervy\a.v^v
tbv Kara, rrjv ^vxty Kara ti rfjs foxfjs V@os

Tj
7)

Tponovs eiSo?. Haw ye, e<f>rj Meve'^evos"

6
rj
77

o be Avals eaiyrjaev. iLiev, i\v o eyco. to


p,ev Srj (f>vaei oiKelov avayKaiov rjp.lv TrecbavTui
cj>iXelv. "EoiKev, e<f>T)- AvayKaiov apa rip yvrj-
aicp epaarfj Kai /rr) TrpoaTroirjrtp <j)iXela6ai urto
rdv iraioiKcov. p.ev ovv Averts Kai Mfve-
B

6
6

evos p.6yis ttcos eTTevevadrrjv, Se 'iTnrodd/Krjs

6
viro rfjs rjdovfjs TravrooaTra r)<j>iei xptbp.ara.
Kai eyco eiirov, /3ovX6p,evos tov Xoyov emorce-
ifjaaOai, Ei p.ev ti to oiKelov tov opolov oia<f>epei,
Xiyoipev av ti, to? ep,ol ooxei, to Aval re Kai Meve-
o eariv Se ravrov rvyydvei
el

eve, vepl <j>iXov,


ov op,oiov re Kai oiKelov, ov pdSiov aTrofiaXeiv tov
npoaOev Xoyov, oj? ov to
op,oiov rep op.0110 Kara
tt]V 6p.oioT7}Ta dxprjarov to Se dyjpi\OTOv <f>iXov
S' eyco,
r]v

opioXoyeiv 7rXrjp,p,eXes . fiovXeod' ovv,


C

eTreiSrj coanepfiedvofiev vno tov Xoyov, avy-


)(coprjacop.ev Kai <f>cop.ev erepov ti etvai to oIkciov
tov opiolov; Haw ye. Uorepov oiv Kai rdyauov
oiKelov 6r]aop.ev navri, to Se KaKov aXXorpiov
elvai; to p.ev KaKov rep KaKtp oiKelov, rep Se
r)

dyadcp to
dyaBov, rep Se p-ryre dyadcp p.rjre kcxkco
to pvrjre dyadov p.rjre KaKov; Ovrcos e<f>drrjv So/ceiv
acpiaiv eKaarov eKaarai oiKelov elvai. TldXiv
66
LYSIS
agreed. Then if you two are friends to each other
hy some natural bond you belong to one another.
Precisely, they said. And in a case where one
person desires another, my boys, or loves him,
he would never be desiring or loving or befriending
him, unless he somehow belonged to his beloved
either in soul, or in some disposition, demeanour
or cast of soul. Yes, to be sure, said Menexenus ;
but Lysis was silent. Very well, said I : what
belongs to us by nature has been shown to be some
thing we needs must befriend. It seems so, he said.
Then the genuine, not the pretended, lover must
needs be befriended by his favourite. To this Lysis
and Menexenus gave but a faint nod of assent ;
while Hippothales, in his delight, turned all manner
of colours.
So then, with the design of reviewing the argument,
I proceeded : Ifthere is any difference between
what belongs and what is like, it seems to me, Lysis
and Menexenus, that we might give some account
"
of the meaning of friend." But if " like " and
" "
belonging are the same, it is not easy to get
rid of our former statement, that the like is useless
to the like in so far as they have likeness ; and to
admit that the useless is friendly would be a gross
mistake. So how if we agree now, I said, since our
argument has made us quite tipsy, to say that the
belonging and the like are two different things ?
By all means. Then shall we maintain that the good
itself belongs to every one, while the bad is alien ?
Or does the bad belong to the bad, the good to the
good, and what is neither good nor bad to what is
neither good nor bad ? They agreed that the last
three pairs belong together. So here again, boys,
67
PLATO

rraiSes, ovs ro rrpGirov Xoyovs

r]v
8'
J) dpa,

<3
eyd),
drrefiaXopieBa rrepl <f>iXlas, els rovrovs eloTTenrco-
Ka/xev yap d8iKOS rip olSIku) koI xaxos ftp

6
6
KaKip oi)8ev r]rrov <f>iXos ear ai dyados ru> dya-

6
rj
6a>. "EoiKev, e<prj. Ti Se; ro dyaOdv ko.1 to
oIkzXov dv ravrov <f>a>p.ev etvai, dXXo tl dyaOos

6
rj
rut ayadut p.6vov <f>iXos; YIdvv ye. 'AAAa pirjv
ko.1 rovro ye d>6p,eda eeXeyai r/fids avrovs' ov

rj
p.ip.vr\ade; Mep.vfjp.eda.
Tt ovv dv en xprjcraip,eda to) Xoyat; SfjXov
E

rj
on ovhev; Seop.ai ovv, aicnrep ol oo<f>ol ev rois
SiKaorrjpiois, rd elprjfieva dnavra avar:ep.Traaa.-
odai. ydp p.f]re ol <f>iXovp,evoi p.-qre ol <f>iXovvres
el

pvr\re ol o/xotoi p,rjre ol dvop.oi.oi pvqre ol ayadoi


pvqre ol oiKetoi p/qre rd dXXa ooa 8ieXrjXvdap.ev

ov ydp eyojye en p.ep,vi)p.ai vnd rov TrXrj&ovs dXX'
p,r)8ev rovra)j> ifriXov eariv, eyd> p,ev ovKen ex00
el

ri Xeyco.
TauTa Tiva rutv
8'

223 elrrcbv ev vat efyov dXXov 17817

irpeofivrepcovKivelv Kara, uiarrep 8aip.oves rives,


irpooeXdovres ol naiSaycoyoi, re rov Mevetjevov
o

Kai rov Avoi8os, e\ovres avrwv rovs dSeXcpovs


6

irapexdXovv koX eiceXevov avrovs oiKaSe dmevai- ,


ro p.ev ovv rrpwrov /cat rjp.els
rjv

17817 ydp oipe.


al 01 TrepieoruJres avrovs aTrqXavvop.ev erreihr)
8e ov8ev i<f>p6vrit,ov rjp,d)v, dXX' VTTof$apfSaplt,ovres
rjyavaKrovv re koi ov8ev rjrrov exaXovv, dXX eSo-
kovv r)p.iv vrroTTerroiKores ev rois 'Ep/^atoi? anopoi
B

elvai Trpoa<j)epeadai, rjrrrjdevres ovv avrdjv 81-

The word " belonging " seems to throw some light on


1

"friend," but even we distinguish from "like" turns


if

it
it

68
LYSIS
I said, we have dropped into the very statements
regarding friendship which we rejected at first ; for
now the unjust will be as much a friend of the
unjust, and the bad of the bad, as the good of the
good.1 So it seems, he said. And what is more,
if we say that the good and the belonging are the
same, we cannot avoid making the good a friend only
to the good. To be sure. But this again, you know,
is a view of which we thought we had disabused
ourselves ; you remember, do you not ? We do.
So what more can we do with our argument ?
Obviously, I think, nothing. I can only ask you,
accordingly, like the professional pleaders in the law
courts, to perpend the whole of what has been said.
If neither the loved nor the loving, nor the like nor
the unlike, nor the good nor the belonging, nor all
the rest that we have tried in turn they are so
many that I, for one, fail to remember any more
well, if none of these is a friend, I am at a loss for
anything further to say.
Having thus spoken, I was minded to stir up
somebody else among the older people there ;
when, like spirits from another world, there came
upon us the tutors of Menexenus and Lysis : they
were bringing along the boys' brothers, and called
out to them the order to go home ; for it was getting
late. At first we tried, with the help of the group
around us, to drive the tutors off; but they took
no notice of us at all, and went on angrily calling,
as before, in their foreign accent. We decided that
they had taken a drop too much at the festival
and might be awkward customers ; so we gave in

out to be just as indifferent to good and bad, and therefore


"
just as remote from the moral significance of friend."
69
PLATO

eXvaapev rrjv avvovaiav. S/jLCOS 8' eytoye a.ir-


17S77
iovtojv aira>v, Nro pev, Avcn re koll

rjv
8'
eya>, a>

M.eveeve, KarayeXaaroi yeyovap,ev eydi re, yeptov


avrfp, /ecu vp,els. epovai yap o"Se amovres cos-
oiojxeda rj/jieis dAA^Aaw <f>i\oi etvat, /cat ep,e yap
ev vp.LV Tior)p,i ovrrco be ti eariv o olol

o
cpt,Aos
re eyevop,e6a eevpetv.

70
LYSIS
to them, and broke up our party. However, just
as they were moving off', I remarked : To-day,
Lysis and Menexenus, we have made ourselves
ridiculous I, an old man, as well as you. For
these others will go away and tell how we believe
we are friends of one another for I count myself
" "
in with you but what a friend is, we have not
vet succeeded in discovering.

71
SYMPOSIUM
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM
The Symposium of Plato holds an acknowledged place
among those few masterpieces of human art which
unveil and interpret something of the centrar mystery
of life. It has been a source of light and inspiration
to successive ages since the revival of learning,
and is revisited by the same reader at different
times of life with fresh wonder and praise. Like
other great works of art, it provides its own intro
duction ; so perfectly is the scene set and presented
that even at the distance of twenty-three centuries
we are able to catch the various tones of the speakers,
first in the ripple of their casual talk, and then in
the flow of their competitive eloquence. But while
the modern reader can hardly miss the main effect
of the simple narrative, as it develops the lively
drama in which the sparkle of satiric wit is made to
enhance the glow of high poetic rapture, there are
one or two points to which attention may be usefully
directed, in order that the work may convey the
fullest possible measure of its meaning and value.
Its theme is the passion of personal love, so often
the subject or occasion of literary art, but rarely
examined in its moral aspect with any true perception
or profit. Love is here treated with a sense of its
universal importance and with a reach and certainty
of insight which do not appear in any other of the
74
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM

great religious or moral teachers. This confident


mastery was one of the extraordinary powers of
, Socrates which Plato at this stage of his writing
was intent on portraying ; it was one of the strangely
memorable impressions which the elder man left
on his associates, in spite of his simple, inquisitive
manner and his constant avowals of ignorance. In
some of his more positive moods he described himself
" lover,"
as an inveterate in the sense of a declared
and devout worshipper of the great energy of
Nature which in its various workings amongst men
"
was called by the general name of Eros." Often
he would feign, in his playful, paradoxical way, to
put himself on a level with ordinary sensual men,
and by discussing their views if they had any, and
consented to state them would endeavour to lead
the talk on to his own conception of love, where it
i was to be approached on the loftiest and most
serious plane of thought. For the very purpose of
a telling contrast with the common attitude to the
matter, he would make a humorous use of the terms
of ordinary love-passion to produce a sudden surprise in
his hearers, when they found that his own pursuit of
intellectual refinement through friendly or affectionate
intercourse was independent of the outward attrac
tions of sense. So much of explanation may perhaps
be necessary, and may just suffice, for a right under
standing of his banter with Alcibiades in this dialogue.
It is one of the great dramatic excellences of
Plato that he shows us how Socrates adapted his
tone and language to the characters of his hearers
and to the several stages of his argument or exposi
tion. This ready sense of the daily lives and thoughts
of his companions, no less than the half-logical,
75
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM
half - mystical bent of his energetic mind, led him
to the knowledge that, however easily or completely
he might have freed his own faculties from the
confusing trammels of carnal appetite, the mass of
mankind was subject to the sway of bodily beauty ;
and that no theory of love could be satisfactory
which did not take due account of this elemental
fact of human nature. So he seizes this favourable
Tfioment in the talk at Agathon's party to suggest
that visible beauty is the most obvious and distinct
reflection in our terrene life of an eternal, im
mutable Beauty, perceived not with the eye but
with the mind. He preaches no avoidance of the
contest with appetite, but rather the achievement
of a definite victory over the lower elements of
love-passion, and the pursuit of beauty on higher
and higher levels until, as in a sudden flash, its
ultimate and all-rewarding essence is revealed.
His modest attribution of the theory to his in
structress, the wise woman of Mantinea, is probably
meant to indicate that we are passing beyond
the bounds of Socratic thought and listening really
to Plato ; but it is quite possible and reasonable
to suppose that Socrates is relating the actual
results of his own cogitation after a discussion with
some revered and impressive counsellor.
In this dialogue the theory is only adumbrated
for an exalted moment in convivial talk : its far-
reaching developments in psychology and meta
physics are set forth in the Republic, Phaedrus,
Phaedo, and elsewhere. Here, through the glow
of poetic speculation, we get a glimpse, not merely
of a logical theory, but of a whole philosophy or
way of life a progress towards complete enlighten
76
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM

ment which is commended to all who have opened


their eyes enough to see that they walk in the
shades of ignorance. The final stages, it seems, may
be too difficult even for Socrates himself to com
prehend : thus with many hesitations and apologies
the great master of inquiry seeks to communicate
a thrilling adventure of his thought a wondering
" "
recognition of the general idea or immaterial
form which presides over all similar appearances in
the material world. An absorbing thought, we are
told, kept him standing in the street for some time
before he joined the dinner-party : so here he shows I
us something of his endeavours to reach the summit I
of wisdom, and to move in a realm of absolute being \
which perhaps is beyond the utmost flight of philo- 1
sophy. But the main thesis seeks to show how '
through the slavish trance of sensual charm we may
| pass
with ever wakening and widening powers to the
best and freest activity of our faculties, the con-

templation of invisible, eternal verity. The lowest


is linked with the highest ; and it is noteworthy
that Alcibiades' eulogy of Socrates serves to fix
attention on the practical beginnings of the progress,
by demonstrating that a rare intellectual communion
may be built on the defeat of mere sensual aims.
In the proportions of its design and the texture
I
of its style the Symposium stands out from even the
best writings of Plato as a marvel of artistic ease
and grace. Translations have frequently succeeded
in presenting his vivid picture of the social manners
of the place and time, and much of the beauty of
his eloquence ; but they have failed to transmit
his brilliant characterization of the individual
speakers in the style of their addresses. An
77
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM

attempt has been made here to indicate in different


" "
sorts and degrees the euphuistic influence of
Sicilian rhetoric in the speeches of Phaedrus, Pau-
sanias, and Agathon; the "medical college" manner
of Eryximachus ; the racy, extravagant humour
of Aristophanes ; the lofty solemnity of Diotima ;
and the frank, unbosoming tone of Alcibiades.
The date of the opening conversation is about
400 b.c. ; the banquet itself was in 416 b.c Apollo-
dorus, whom we meet also in the Phaedrus (59), was
noted for his enthusiastic attachment to Socrates
in his last years ; Aristodemus, who related to him
the story of the banquet, was the Master's intimate
of an earlier time. Agathon, the brilliant and
courteous host, has just won the prize with the first
"
part of a " tetralogy or group of four plays at a
dramatic festival : he was born about 447 b.c, and
studied rhetoric under Gorgias and Prodicus.
Phaedrus, who makes the first speech at the party,
was a disciple of Hippias (Protag. 315 c), and a
friend of Plato, who gave his name to the other
dialogue (the Phaedrus) which especially deals with
the subject of love. Pausanias, the next speaker,
was a disciple of Prodicus (Protag. 315 d) and a
passionate admirer of Agathon ; his speech is a
typical exhibition of the plausible, ornamental
rhetoric of the literary sophists. Eryximachus, son
of the physician Acumenus, followed his father's
profession and belonged to the great medical guild
of the Asclepiadae. He has the unbending gravity
and cold, dogmatic utterance of the student and
upholder of science. Aristophanes, the great comic
poet and close contemporary of Agathon, had seized
on the originality which distinguished Socrates from

78
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM
the ordinary sophists, and also on his scientific
learning and argumentative subtlety, to make him
the central figure of fun in the Clouds (423 B.C.).
Here he makes the theme of love the occasion for
a satirical sketch, in his own fantastic spirit and
brilliant style, of physiological theories of the day.
Alcibiades 450-404- B.C.) shown at the height
(c.

is
of his popularity, a year before he sailed with the
Sicilian Expedition. The tipsy immodesty of his
mood throws into noble relief the passionate warmth
of his admiration for the character of Socrates.

For fuller of the Symposium readers


discussions
are recommended to consult Jowett's Introduction
(1892), and Dr. R. G. Bury's useful edition (1909).

7!)
, ^TMnO^ION

in
l'.
':.

AnOAAOAnPOS ETAIP02

AIT- -rrwddveade ovk dpeXer-qTos


Ao/cc3 A10' ""e/ol >v
So

172
etvai. Kal yap ervy^avov Trpcor/v els dcrrv oiKoOev
dvicov Q>aXr)p69ev tiov ovv yvojpijxcov tls o-rriadev
Katihibv /ne Troppcodev eKaXeoe, /cat 7rata>v a/ia. tjj
/cA^o-ei, *X2. ovtos 'ATToXX68ojpos,
QaXrjpevs, etfyq,
oil Trepifieve?s Kaycb emends irepi.ep.eiva- /cat os,
;

'AiroAAdScope, e<j>i), /cat prjv Kal evayxps ae tf-


tovv fiovXopevos SiaTTvdecrdat. rrjv AydOtovos crvv-
''

ovaiav Kal TiWKpdrovs Kal 'AA/ci/Jia8oi> /cat tojv


B

aXXcov tcov rore ev toj owSetirvip napayevopevcov,


nepl tcov ipurrLKCov Xoycov rives rjaav. aAAo? yo.p
ns poi SnjyetTo aK7]Kod)s Oowucos tov ^iXIttttov,
ecprj be /cat ere etoevat. aAAa yap ovoev et^e cracpes
Xeyew cn> ovv pot, Sirjyrjcjai- St/catoTaro? yap ei
tovs tov eraipov Xoyovs anayyeXXetv . irpoTepov
he poi, os, elire, oil avros rrapeyevov rfj avvov-
8'
f)

aiq. TavTTj ov; Kaych elnov ort TlavTaTracriv


r)

eoiKe aoi ovSev SirjyeZodai oa<f>es Sirjyovpevos


C

vecoarl r/yfj ttjv avvovaiav yeyovevai ravr-qv fjv


el

Nothing known of this man.


is
1

80
THE SYMPOSIUM
Apollodorus tells his Companions how he heard
about the Banquet

ap. I believe I have got the story you inquire of


pretty well by heart.
The day before yesterday
I I chanced to be going up to town from my house in
I Phalerum, when one of my acquaintance caught
sight of me from behind, some way off, and called
[
in a bantering tone
" Hullo, I say,
Phalerian !
\ Apollodorus, wait a moment." So I stopped and
Then, " Apollodorus," he said, " do you
'
waited.
; know, I have just been looking for you, as I want
to hear all about the banquet that brought together
Agathon and Socrates and Alcibiades and the rest
of that party, and what were the speeches they
delivered upon love. For somebody else was
relating to me the account he had from Phoenix,1
son of Philip, and he mentioned that you knew it
, too. But he could not tell it at all clearly ; so you
'
must give me the whole story, for you are the most
proper reporter of your dear friend's discourses. But
first tell me this," he went on ;
" were you at that
"
party yourself, or not ? To which my answer was :
"
You have had anything but a clear account from
your informant, if you suppose the party you are
asking about to have been such a recent affair
vol. v g 81
PLATO
* e/ v i \ /
pors, diate kai "E
**.
* p Tapayevoffat. "Eydoye 8%
*
&#m.
ey
II6ev, jv 3 eyd, 6 TAakov; ok
* * o'
eTool/ *A yatov

o"t 7TO/\/\Col/
AA. 6 #v668
vde
2

ovk tude0)
Beff.
* \

d.b
Xokptet

of
punkev, eyd, ovv8tatpiffa,

Kai
ey
&TueMs Tetoinual kdorms jupas elval

5
v

Ayn o8tro &rn criv;


TpTTm, Tpia

"I'
173 Tepitpxov Tm Txotul kai oiuevos
B
Tob
Towev d6Auditepos tovov, ox #TTov

oil
wi.

in
i
oiuevos beiv tvra
- uAAov TpTrew boooohs'

)
ey

Kai s, M3) oktt, pm, dAA eit uot 76te


w

*/
2
'...'.

/
*

y
e

/
veto
3/ - */ e/airm.* kya, eltov 3rt IIa8w
ovvovoia
e

y
5
r
"udov * eTV, OT Tm Tpa) Tim Tpay96ig

!
Ol/Tool/ evikmaty

-
ti)

5
1
Ayd6aov, jotepaig


T
i tivikva 6vey air:
,

IIdvv,
*
Te

t
kai Xopeutai. dpa tdMat,
of

pm,

0.
&oukev. dAN Tis Got Bunyetro; airs Xa.
*

)
2Y Y? ...
w
r

tv, Ala,
udv

Kprns;

35

/
*
O jv &yd, dAN

0.
Tep doivuku 'Aptotmuos tis,
#v
Kv3affnvale.
j'
ww.

guukps, divvtntos det: Tapayeyvel

3
&
ovvovaig, Xokptovs paoti's div

i.
tols uAT:
v
dis

Tv Tre, poi oket, uvrov dAM K!'


Xokpt) jkov'
ye

jn
T'
via dvmpumv ketvov
scal uot duoMyet kaflep ketvos 8-myetro,
D

t
ov, &pm,
o

8wny joco plot; Tvros


B

s
"|
i
p

els datv tutmeta tropevouvous kat Myew


d

dikov Ll/.
6)

Oro ivres
e/ e/
dua Toijs Ayovs wept air."
>
*

5
*

C eTotovueda, Coote, ottep


*

OpXouevos eitov, ovK Gl


5
6

t"

s -
*/

ei *
*

=
q

Aeritos * obv Bet kai */ juv 8vnyijaao!'


\

* xo.
w

3.

Taira Xpi) Towev. Kai yap yaoye kai AA0%


*

#AA

pm add. Burnet.
*

Perhaps the father


of

Charmides (Charm. 154).


*
SYMPOSIUM
'',gas # ## # # '''

be
that could included. So did suppose,
I

I
said. How Glaucon'? You
he

so, said

I.
must know many year that Agathon has been
it
is

a
away from home and country, and not yet three
years that have been consorting with Socrates
I

my daily care
and making

to
know whatever he
it

time, what with running


or

says
Before that
does.
random and thinking did things,
at

about was

I
alive; just
the

you

at
as
wretchedest man are
...

present, thinking philosophy your busi

of
none
at is
...

jeering me, said, tell


of

Instead he
*' ":

ness.
me when was that this party took place.
it

When you and were only children, told him;


I

I
*:: Agathon's victory with his
on

of

the occasion
first tragedy: the day after that the dedicatory
'il

of
a his

its
he

feast which and players held for celebra


iMtion. Ah, quite long while ago, would it
but who gave you the account
$'#

he

seem, said
;

no
it? Socrates himself? Goodness, !
of

answered. It
was the person who told Phoenix I
#

Cydathenaeum, little man, who


of
}

Aristodemus
a

always barefoot. the company


of

#ent He was
'there, being one the chief among Socrates'
of

all

'lovers time, the same,


at

that believe. But


of I
I

have since questioned Socrates on some details


l"

his

he

"the story had from friend, and acknowledged


be I

Come
to

accordance with his account.


up in

them
,

said, let me have


he

i"then,
in

now and fact


it

for ;

telling and
to

"the road town well suited


is
go

hearing along.
as

we
#

So

on

we went, discoursing the while


of

this
#

affair; and hence, began by saying,


as

have
it
I

I
by

-pretty well heart. So, friends, you too must


if
it.

hear the whole story, had better tell For my


#

83
PLATO
airs
3rav uv *WTavas Tepi 4xogopias Ayovs
* */ o
wo, xopis to oleoffat diffe
Totual e &MAaov * dico / ey
a e
Xaipao 8 d'AAovs Tudi
57tepdbvs
Aeto.6at dis OTo
getpous To" s- Tw TAdvolo
|
AAos Te kal Tows
ars re *---- dx}ouat *#6s *

*
kal Xpmuatuorukw,5* * * w
o:8:
Tous et Gupo us xe, 3rt offeoffe Ti Tote'"
*
e
w

w s/ * * *

's
kai toos at 5uets u #yctode
* 3f 6 -
D

TrotovTes. e = 2

An60 oieg"
w */
f
8 atuova $ elva, kai otola >\ \ 3
a' *6 5/ 6 s.
dAA et otoa.
Juds ovkoto"
3 *
gy, pvrot |

del
Fr.

Ael otos * et,


6Atowope yp Gw.
5

3/
kal Bok

*
*
kai Tows d'Aous,
Te

Kakmyopets
*

rw
* a

\>0.
A.

iyetoffat TA)

X
#6Xi.
5

po, drexvs Tavras* awatows

}
"
5
w

kprovs, d:to Gavrot. dpuevos. kai tdev


5

a
Ty &rovvutav &Aaes paviks Ka'!'
*
o

T
v

Tavrm
y

2
s

.
.
.
Ayo's"|
3/

offat, ok ot3a &yoye: uv yp Tos


v

gavr kai Tois AAols dyplai's]"


el:

Te

Tolobros

"
T}\}v
Xokptovs.

8w
6tt
ye

oira,
8:
An

'Q

harate, scal 85Xv


E.

kai Tep duautob sal


rept uv
woodwevos
/

pal kai Tapata";


*

yf

Arro)Mape,
ET.

Ojic dvov Tepi Toitov, (


I

Toti'
u)

epigetv. dAA' 5tep &eue66 Gov, &AAos

*
&AA 8%yngal rives jaay Ayot.
of
An

"Hoay rolvvv ketvo Totote rivs' uM|


|
dis

&ketvos Bunyetto kai yd


&#

1748 dpxs buiv


goua, Bunyigaoffat.
'

deserve
I

His friend means: expect you quite


1

(for your general absorption


of

name crazy fanatic


84
SYMPOSIUM

; : : own part, indeed, I


commonly find that, setting
# aside the benefit I
conceive they do me, take an I
immense delight in philosophic discourses, whether
|005
I
speak them myself or hear them from others:
TM'
whereas in the case of other sorts of talkespecially
# that of your wealthy, money-bag friendsI am
6 : not only annoyed myself but sorry for dear intimates
you, who think you are doing a great deal when
# * like
you really do nothing at all. From your point of
i
& view, I daresay, I seem a hapless creature, and I
think your thought is true. I, however, do not think
it of you: I know it for sure.
# CoMP. You are the same as ever, Apollodorus,
* * always defaming your self and every one else!
it,

m\}.
Your view, I take that all men alike are miser
is

''' able, save Socrates, and that your own plight

is
# * the worst. How you may have come by your
\\ crazy,
do

though,
of

of of
title not know
I

course, you are always like that your way


in

#. speechraging against yourself and everybody


except Socrates.
AP. My dear sir, obviously must be mere
it

ow.
a

me, hold this opinion


of

()' crazy aberration


to
allin

myself and you


is of

of !

time, Apollodorus, wrangle


to
It

CoMP. waste
about such matters now. Come, without more ado,
comply with our request and relate how the speeches
Went.
Well then, they were somewhat follows,
as

AP.
all

but stay, must try and tell you


in

order
I

from the beginning, just my friend told


as

it

to me.

philosophy), because your vehement censure yourself


of

# and others suggests it to me.


85
PLATO
* p
"E ydo
vrvyetv
X oi Xokodtn
AeAovuvoy
p m
m a. e a' & 5 * 5

d\"
Te kai Ts 8Aavras iTroe3euvov, kelvos

ef
yakus toiew: kai poffat airw not

to
-
off"
scaRs yeyevnuvos. *
e tf

5.
w

w
w

5
'Ett

d

2
Kai Tv eitely ettvov
* eis Aydflavor.
w

d
w

6
X6s yp airv 8tfivyov Tots tunkiois, hobnik's

8
3 5
Tv* x\ov diplomymoa eis Tijuepov tapaeoffat.
ka}\\otiaduqv, * iva kaMs tap kaM

t
)
rara

|| ||
*

6Q3
ov, 6s, Ts xels Tps

T
too. dAAd
#
* 6Me"

v.
5
Bettvov;
&v

ival dk}\ntos *ti


B

|
Kyd, pm, eltov r. Oira's 5ta's

t
dy
*

Gi
b
*

|
a

:r
keMetns.

*
*
*
*
"ETov Toivvv, fin, iva kal Tjv Tapoulav 6ta:

dis
$6eipouev ueraAAoutes, dpa kai Aydflow"
Tuatov dyadoi. "Outpos
of at

&T Batras taow


pav yp kivvvejet uvov 8tab6epal dAAd

ki y,
#8ploat els. Tatni Tip Tapoulav. Tovio

as
Tv 'Ayapuvova. 3rahepvros dyadov dvpa

ri
ToMeuk, Tv MevAeov uaA6akw aiyur
B
C

Tiv, 6votav Totov'ov Acal orvovros Tob 'Aya:


puvovos dramtov etoinaev A6vra Tv Mevlemy
ti riv 6oivny, Xeipo vta ti Tiju Toi dueivovos,
Tar dkovaas eitely n "Ioans uvrov kvv
dis

vego kai yd, otz Ayes, X6kpates,


on

&
v

off

dAA kaff "Oumpov haMos mi god dvp;


''Aydwy' Lachmann yabw Mss.
:

The name Agathon resembles the Greek for good me."


1

the proverb, which seems


to
in

have been: abruaro. dyad"


5

#ygdy &rl dairas tags (Athen. 8A: Bacchyl. fr. 33). The
i.

w()

corruption consists putting the dative Ay06


in

for

&ya6&v; though perhaps the reference


to

another form
is

0
of

the proverb which had bet\w (cravens') instead dyadw,


86
SYMPOSIUM

&# Hon. Aristodemus fell in nith Socrates and came


#:
"
to the Banquet
He said that he met with Socrates fresh from the

* a bath and wearing his best pair of slippersquite


rare events with himand asked him whither he
# was bound in such fine trim.
p: To dinner at Agathon's, he answered. I
i' evaded him and his celebrations yesterday, fearing
## the crowd; but I agreed to be present to-day. So
I got myself up in this handsome style in order to
s # be a match for my handsome host. Now tell me,
said he, do you feel in the mood for going unasked
dinner ?
*'. to
For anything, he
may bid me do.
said he replied, that you

:: Come along then, he said;


the proverb with a new version :
let us corrupt

10

# What if they go of their own accord,


# (1||
The good men to our Goodman's' board?

# Though indeed Homer may be said to have not


| A merely corrupted the adage, but debauched it:
for
'...

after setting forth Agamemnon


as

man
as a

16|
eminently good warfare, and Menelaus only
at

he

spearman spiritless, makes the latter come


a
'
i"#''

the banquet the former, who was


of
to

unbidden
offering sacrifice and holding feast;
so

the worse
a

man was the guest


of

the better.
__.
a he

To this my friend's answer, told me, was:


as

*"I am afraid mine, most likely, case that fits


is

#not your version, Socrates, but Homer'sa dolt


coming unbidden the banquet
of
to

scholar. Be
a
#
::
Il.

ye

xvii. 587 MevAaov wiretpgas,


T

rpos ua)\6aks
s
*

dyads MevAaos.
ii.

alxumrijs, and 408 airuaros )\6e 8ohv


ol

87
PLATO

ival doivny dramros. pa ov dyov us ti ! da"


yjon, yd wv ox duoMoyffoa. k\ntos fire"

dis

|
D
&AA 57 oob kek}\muvos.
Xv 86, &m, pxouvo Tp

Te
Toi"

d
BovXevgple6a pobuey, dAAd togev.

Tt

Totabr' dra obs bn 8taxex6vras l".
Ty ov Xokprm avr was apogxovra

"|
pov card rv 8v Topeeoffat ToMetrple"
T'

||
T els
kal repuvovros kemtiew "poival

off

to
'Ay"

T
ti oikig
88

E6ev. ne,8# yevoffat


vos, dweqryvny kataAap Bvew Tv pay, k'

| ': : '
&#7 air6 yeMotov Taffety y yp ei's

of
Tad riva voffew dTavrijaavta dyew

of
kar
grewroot dAAoi, kai kataMaudvew jn uMo"
eis dis

Sempeiv. ieiv Tv 'Ayddova,

""
e560s ov
8

didval, 'Aptormue, jkets 6ta's

||
kaRv
affs

els
Settvians: d'AAov Tws veka #A6es,
dis el
8'

kal kaAo" wa
Ge

vaa Aob, X6es &ntw


Xokptn juiv Ts oix
T

oix ols ieiv. dAAd

#
a's:
3/

y, #m, pleTaqtpehuevos ojquoi p'


,

- ...'
,

Kai
67

Xokptm tuevow: eitov obv kal airs ple:


Xokprovs icout, k\ndels : ''
it

keivov 3eip
in

8e0Tvoy.
y,

&T'''
of

KaAs &hn, Totv dAAd To


"H

offtos
;

6avuo
"
:
175 Ontadev uoff dot eloiet dAAd
ars Tob dyein.
0
{

O) grly, pm, Tat, didval Tv 'Aydflava, "|''


''
Ti,

Badham pa, pa M*
Ti

Spa
Tt
.
.

.
.
:

.
.

88
SYMPOSIUM

#2 sure, then, to have your excuse quite ready when


you bring me; for I
shall not own to coming un
asked, but only on your invitation.
If
two go along together, he remarked,
there's one before another ' " in devising what

0

we are to say. Well, off we go.


After some such conversation, he told me, they
in started off. Then Socrates, becoming absorbed in
#
by
his

own thoughts the way, fell behind him

as
...

they went; and when my friend began

to
wait

he
he

So
on
go

to
'A' for him bade him ahead. came
A.

Agathon's house, and found the door open; where


**

rather ridiculous position.


he

in

found himself
a

by
was met immediately
he

For servant from


a
0."

within, who took him where the company was


found them just about
he

1&M reclining, and

to
dine.
However, Agathon saw himHa,
as

as

lo". soon
right welcome
he
*

Aristodemus, cried, place


to
a
on

table with us! you came some other errand,


If
at

put off another time only yesterday went


to
it

d'
:

you, you.
it to

to

round invite but failed see But


Socrates ?
do

you bring
us
*

how not
is

he

At that turned back for Socrates, said, but


I

sign him coming after me:


of
no

so
Wii

saw told them


r:
I

how myself had come along with Socrates, since he


I

me
#

to

had asked dine with them.


Very good said, but
he

you come,
of

to

where the man


is

He

was coming just now behind me:


in
* "

am
"

wondering myself where


he

can be.
...

Go once, Agathon the servant, and


to

said
Il. at

65' pxogvo, kat Tp


Te

Cf. 224 avy rob vngev


x.

re

6
*

(0%
if
two go along together, there's one
to

87t
Tws kpos m,

*py before another how profit may be had.


a

89
PLATO

8',
elodgets Xokprm;

5s,
on 'Aptor3)6,

8
#
Tap 'Eoviuaxov karakAlvou.
Kai *\

d
uvi &#m droview Tata,

#. he
Tv

|
*
ey
8

To

5
#AA

/
B
*Takeo Tiva Tv Taffov jeew dyy'.
GAAov

| '
Movta tt. Xokprns

of
ros dvaxopjaas

"
kaloj",

o
Tw yearvoy Tpo6.jpg &otmke kal

l.
ok 6Aet eiotvau.

Y,
* -

-
&m, Ayes officovu Kaxets air:

3
"AroTw

||
Kai un dhijoets; * * *

|
*/

| l
Kai eitely Mmaus, *
s

bn

/
3/
dAA &re air.
* */

dis k
>
a

ey
tos ydp Tott &et

5
/
*

w *
*
Tt

&vtore d7. ords otol

'
ey

djsw
#et *
8
Txm otnicev.
* * attika, y, olpa
w

Am ovy Kuvette, #AA OLTe


5
a

'AAA oita Xph Towetv, ei ool oket, &hn diffic

s
* tv 'Ayd6aova. dAA jus, & Tates, rows dMovil'
*
A.

Tapariffere

&v
eartre. Tdvta's
-

T.

* BoAngik

'tI.i
p.
p")w
Tis

juv heorijkm
(5
etevdi yd, ow8ewditor:

sue ##||

().
kai
* * "uttoires
-

kekAoffat ti Bettvov kal Tovose Toys dAMo','


6epatevere, iva jus tawuev.

0.
* *

!
5/
*
$.
In
Met Tabra n odds gv Bettvety, ry
|
C

!
Xokptm othe elovval. Tv off, 'Ayd6aova
Tok'
&
di'i'
Adkis Aetatu hagflat Tv Xokprm,
keMeetv
*
or
ey
noxy xpvov, Gil'
|
8

v. firew offv airv


of

t
-

ei6et, * Rf
/

watpi havta, GAAG


2
/

iAA
offis peo"
8

dA
6.

* udavora
6

*
w

\,
5

Set Tvotivtas. Tv otyv Ayd6aova, Tvyxvetv y}|I'll:


/
*

.
/

a.
oxarov Karakei'evov uvov, Aeop',
WI6

hn diffe'
dikpates, Top eple ko Tarceloo, iva ka! Toff*
5

ey
*

*
X.

gofoi
le
>

a.
dTrplevs oov dToMavoo, ti),
*

oot Tpooarn
D

uv Bast: u Mss.
l
*
*

90
SYMPOSIUM

see if you can fetch in Socrates. You, Aristodemus,


Wr take a place by Eryximachus.
So the attendant washed him and made him
rai, ready for reclining, when another of the servants
way: came in with the news that our good Socrates had re

* treated into their neighbours


porch; there he was

in,
he
standing, and when bidden

to
...

come refused.
"

go
How strange said Agathon, you must
"
'

bidding him, and by means let him go. no


on

M' But this Aristodemus forbade: No, said he,


.
.

let him alone;


he
habit has. Occasionally
it
is
a

Sohe
the turns aside, anywhere random, and there
at
in

be

instands.He will here presently, expect.


is

not disturb him; let him be.


I
do
...

Very well then, said Agathon, as you judge


he

best. Come, boys, the servants,


#
to

called
...

serve the feast for the rest of us. You are to set
'on
no
just whatever you please, now that you have
*one direct you
to

method have never tried


(a

}*before). To-day you are imagine that


to

and
I
on

the company here have come your invitation:


all
#

look after us, and earn our compliments.


so
s

said, they
all
he

Thereupon, began dinner, but


..Socrates did not arrive; and though Agathon ever
go

and anon gave orders that they should and fetch


"

"him, my friend would not allow


he
it.

When did
I'ome, was after what, for him, was
no

great delay,
it

p's they were only about half-way through dinner.


be

Then Agathon, who happened sitting alone


to
#

#&n the lowest place, said: Here, Socrates, come


by
by

contact with you may have


'it

so

me, that
I
W

'ome benefit from that piece wisdom that occurred


of

the porch. Clearly you have made


0

in

you there
to

This clause probably an aside" his guests.


to
is
*

91
PLATO

Tpo6%pots. 66Aov yap 6tt mpes air kai ys'


o yp dv Tpdate.orms.
Kai Tv Xkptm kaieoffat kat eitely

et rt
E.
xot, bdval, 'Ayddov,
v rotofirov

et
&

t
eis
&
Godbia, diot Tob TAmpegrpov Tv kevtep

||
* a

to W
e/
C

e
5

5
/

*
6

.
fety
judov, dy dittueffa dAAAaov, otep #||

T
Tais klguy #6op bud Tob ptov peov

k
Ti
||
oft
els
TAmpeoTpas Tv kevotpav. yap

el
xet kai Gopia, ToMAoi Tuual thy Tapa Nils
i

Ekatk\low oiual yp Tapa Got ToMAjs Kili

ue
kaAs Godias TAmpo6.jeoffat. uv yap #/5
dhavan Tus dy, ein kai dubio Bntijouos, dign']."
kai ToMA'v n'.
on

Mautpd

Te
vap oboa,
i

Tapd got vov vtos ojra, off."


ye

xovga,

Tp
&#Aaple kai khavi's yvero uprw!"

v
finv
Tv EAA#vav TAov Touguvpious.

is
'Ay'
et,

A
Y'8ptoti's &m, Xkpates,

6
ral Tabra uv kai dAyov joirepov 8waukagd:

'' |l ' |
Tepi Tis Gobias, Bukaoti Ypdugo
at

yd
Te

Kai
T Atovaq, wby Tps Betavoy Tpra Tp"
To
B

Merd Tabra, bm, karakAlvvros

on
176 ro5
Kprows kai Bettvijaavros kai Tv dAAov,
bs Totijo agdal kal &gavras Tv 6edy
Te

86s K.
T o

Cl
&

TAAa volutgueva Tpteoffat 7ps rv Tw!'


Tv offv IIavgaviav bn Ayov Totowrov Tu-j
Eiev,
's
karpxe", dropes, $dval, Tiva Tp
5

yd) gev ov Myo July,


fiota Twueffa;
'll
"We
r
"

#r. Tavu XaAets xo #76 rob X6s mrov


7.
8&

dvalvXs Tavs, oluo.


kal vuy
at

8op
: *

ToMAows: Tapiore Yap X6s' akoweto.6e off,


$.
s pqota Tivoluev.
&v

TpT9
B

(h

Tv ov 'Aptoro havn eitely, Tobro ptro


92
SYMPOSIUM

" , , the discovery and got hold of


have come away before.
Then Socrates sat down, andHow fine it would
.
it; for you would not

76% be, Agathon, he said, if


wisdom were a sort of
thing that could flow out

of

of
us
the one
iro

who

is
by
* fuller into him who emptier, our mere contact
a

is
with each other, water will flow through wool from
as

# the fuller cup into the emptier.

If
such indeed

is
on
the case with wisdom, set great value my

be a
I
* yi

sitting you
to

next look filled with excellent


to
I
-
:
y

you. My own

of
0\; wisdom drawn
in

out
"'
abundance

'' but meagre, disputable dream; but


as

as
is

a
bright and expansive, the other day
as
yours
it is
we

"... saw shining forth from your youth, strong and


'''

more than thirty thousand


of

splendid, the eyes


in

T0% Greeks.
said Agathon.
!

You rude mocker, Socrates


P.

go

A little later
on

on
you and shall
to

law this
I

'matter our wisdom, and Dionysus shall be our


of

your
w S.

be

judge. For the present, let the dinner


first concern.
:

:* After this, seems, when Socrates had taken his


it

place and had dined with the rest, they made


#

the god and forth,


so

libation and sang


to

\) chant
a

# custom bids, till they betook them drinking.


to
'

"...Then Pausanias opened conversation after this


a

Well, gentlemen, drinking


of

manner: what mode


"*

best? For my part, tell the truth, am


us

of to

will suit
I

very poor form yesterday's bout,


in

as

result
il,v0

claim little relief; so, believe, with


it
is

and
a
I

you, for you were yesterday's party:


us so
of

at

er
most
*

drinking would suit


of

what method
'best.
,

on

this Aristophanes observed Now that,


:
!

-
93
PLATO

Xeyeis, c5 YLavaavia, ro rravrl rporno TrapaoKevd-


aaodai paorcDvrjv nva rrjs TToaeios' Kal yap auro's
eip.1 T(x>v
x@ts fSef}aTrnop.ev<Dv .

AKOvaavra ovv avrcov ecf>7] 'Epvlp,axov top


'AKOvp,evov, TH KaXcos, <f>dvai, Xeyere. /cat eri
evos Seofiai vp,a>v aKovoai, Trios e^ei irpos to
eppcoodai rrlveiv 'Ayddatv.
Ov8ap.u>s, <f>dvai, ov8' avros eppcD/j.au.
C "Eppaiov av eiT] rjp,lv, i) 8' os, ws eoiKev, i/xol
re ko.1 Api<yTo8rjfj,cp Kal <S>al8pw Kal rolcrSe, el
vp.ets ot Swarcoraroi rrlveiv vw aTTeiprJKare-
rjp.els p.ev ydp del dpvvaroi. YiWKpdrrj o iaipu>
Xoyov iKavos ydp Kal dp,<j>6repa, war' ei^apKeoei
avrw oirorep av Troicjfiev. eTreiSr) oSv p,ov So/cet
ovSels rtov napovrcov Trpodvp,cos e%eiv Trpos to
ttoXvv rrlveiv olvov, loots av eyd> irepl rod /xedv-
OKeodai olov eon rdXrjOrj Xeyatv -qrrov av etrjv
drjorjs. yap rovro ye otp.ai KardSrjXov
8r)

ep,ol
D yeyovevai k rfjs larpiKrjs, on ^aXenov rots av-
dpcimois p,edrj earl' Kal ovre avros Ikojv etvat
r)

ixoppoi e8eX~qoa<,p,i av Tnelv ovre dXX<p ovfi/3ov-


Xevaaip-l, dXXcos re Kal KpanraXaJvra en k rrjs
rrporepaias.
'AAAa pvfjv, vrroXafiovra QaXopov rov
e(/>rj <f)dvai
^Avppwovaiov eywye ooi elwda -rreldeoOai dXXcos
,

re Kal drr' av irepl larpiKrjs Xeyr/s' vvv 8', av &


povXevwvrai, Kal Xonrol. ravra aKovaav-
8ry
ol

raj avyxcopeiv -rrdvras p*r) 8ia p,edrjs TroirjoaoQat


E

rrjv ev ru> rrapovn ovvovaiav, aXX ovrco mvovras


TTpOS 7)8oV7]V.

94
SYMPOSIUM
Pausanias, is a good suggestion of yours, that we

make a point of consulting our comfort in our cups :


for I myself am one of those who got such a soaking
'
yesterday."
When Eryximachus, son of Acumenus, heard this ;
" "
You are quite right, sirs," he said ; and there is
yet one other question on which I request your
opinion, as to what sort of condition Agathon finds
himself in fpr drinking."
"
No, no," said Agathon, " I am not in good
condition for it either."
"
It would be a piece of luck for us, I take it,"
the other went on,
" that is, for me, Aristodemus,
Phaedrus, and our friends here, if you who are the
stoutest drinkers are now feeling exhausted. We, of
course, are known weaklings. Socrates I do not count
in the matter : he is fit either way, and will be content
. with whichever choice we make. Now as it appears
that nobody here present is eager for copious
. draughts, perhaps it will be the less irksome to you
if I speak of intoxjcation, and tell you truly what it
is. The practice of medicine, I find, has made this
clear to me that drunkenness is harmful to mankind ;
and neither would I myself agree, if I could help it,
to an excess of drinking, nor would I recommend it
to another, especially when his head is still heavy
from a bout of the day before."
Here Phaedrus of Myrrhinus interrupted him,
"
saying : Why, you know I always obey you,
above all in medical matters ; and so now will the
rest of us, if they are well advised." Then all of
them, on hearing this, consented not to make
their present meeting a tipsy affair, but to drink
just as it might serve their pleasure.
95
PLATO

'E7rei8^ Tolvvv, </)dvai tov 'Epufi/xa^ov,


tovto pev SsSoktcu, TrLveiv oodv dv eKaoTOS f3ov-
Xr/rai, eTnp.va.yKes he prjSev etvai, to peTa tovto
elcrrjyovpai rr)v (lev dpri eloeXdovoav avXrjTpiSa
Xalpeiv eav, avXovoav eavrf\ rj av povXrjrai tolls
yvvail rats evoov, r)pas Se Sta Xoycov dXXrjXoLS
avveZvai to Trqpepov Kal St olcuv Xoycov, el /3ov-
Xecrde, eOeXco vp.lv elcrqyrjoaod ai.
Oavat irdvras Kal fiovXeodai, Kal KeXeveiv
St)
177
avrov elorjyeiodat,. threw ovv tov 'Epv^ipa^ov
OTt 'H pev poi dpyjr] tov Xoyov earl Kara, rrfv
EvpimBov MeXaviTTTrrjv ov yap epos pvOos, dXXa

6
OaiSpou ToiJSe, ov peXXco Xeyeiv. $>aZ8pos yo.p
eKaaroTe irpos pe dyavaKTcbv Xeyet Ov Seivdv,
'^pv^tpa^e dXXois pev ncri decov vpvovs
d>

(fyt]aiv,
,

/ecu 7raitova? etvai vtto twv ttoltjtujv TreTroi7)p.e-


VOVS, TU> tt]Xikovtco ovti Kal
8k "EjOCOTt, tooovtoj
9ea>, pr]8e eva TTCOTrore tooovtcov yeyovoTWV ttolt)-
B

tcov TreTroi.r)Kevat. prjhev eyKcopiov el


Se jSouAei
aS oKeipaadai tovs XPrlcn'0VS oofaords, 'Hpa-
KXeovs pev Kal dXXcuv erralvovs KaTaXoyd8r)v avy-
worrep TlpodiKOS' Kal tovto
jSeATioroy
6

ypd<f>ew,
pev 7*Jttov Kal davpaorov dXX' eyioye rjSrj tivI
,

evervxpv j8tj8Ai'ti>, ev co evrjoav dXes errawov dav-


pdoiov e\ovTes irpos cbcf>eXeiav, Kal dXXa Toiavra,
ovx"d iSoi? dv eyKeKOjpiaopeva' to oSv toiovtcov
C

pev rrepi TroXXr)v ottovotjv Trovfjoaodai, "Epa>Ta Se


pyjoeva ttco avOpoJrroov reToXprjKevai els TavTrjvl

Eurip. fr. 488 fivdos, d\V i/xrjs fjLrjrpbs Tripa,


1

odic tfibs
" not mine the
6

tale my mother taught me."


it
;

The moralizing sophist, famous for his parable of The


2

96
SYMPOSIUM
"
Since it has been resolved, then," said Eryxi-
"
machus, that we are to drink only so much as
each desires, with no constraint on any, I next
propose that the flute-girl who came in just now
be dismissed : let her pipe to herself or, if she likes,
to the women-folk within, but let us seek our enter
tainment to-day in conversation. I am ready, if you
so desire, to suggest what sort of discussion it should
be."

Eryximachus proposes the Theme of Love


They all said they did so desire, and bade him
make his proposal. So Eryximachus proceeded :
"
The beginning of what I have to say is in the words
' '
of Euripides' Melanippe, for not mine the tale 1
that I intend to tell ; it comes from Phaedrus here.
He is constantly complaining to me and saying,
)
Is it not a curious thing, Eryximachus, that while
other gods have hymns and psalms indited in their
> honour by the poets, the god of Love, so ancient
and so great, has had no song of praise composed
for him by a single one of all the many poets that
ever have been ? And again, pray consider our
worthy professors, and the eulogies they frame
of Hercules and others in prose, for example,
the excellent Prodicus.2 This indeed is not so
surprising ; but I recollect coming across a book by
somebody, in which I found Salt superbly lauded
for its usefulness, and many more such matters I
could show you celebrated there. To think of all
this bustle about such trifles, and not a single man
ever essaying till this day to make a fitting hymn

Choice of Heracles (Xen. Mem. ii. 1. 21), where the appeal


, of Virtue prevails over that of Vice.
vol. v h 97
PLATO
rrjv qp.epav di(t>s VfivijaaL- dXX' ovrws ^/acAtjtcu
ravra

8tj
tooovtos deos. fxoi So/cei ev Xeyeiv
<$>ai8pos. eyo) ovva/xa p,ev rovro}
emdvp.a>
epavov eloeveyKetv Kal )(aploaoOai, a/xa ev t<o

8'
napovri Trpenov (jloi SoKel etvai rjp.lv rots Ttapovai
Koaprjoai tov deov. ovv owSo/cei kcll vfj.iv,

el
J)

yivoir av ij/uv ev Xoyois iKavrj StarpijS^- So/cei


yap /xoi xpr)vai eKaorov rjp.6jv Xoyov eareZv eiraivov
"EpajTO? em Se^ia (lis av ovvqrai Ka.XXi.arov, ap-
%eiv 8e Qaiopov Trpcorov, e7Tiorj koI Trpcoros Kara-
Keirai Kal earw a/xa TTarr/p tov Xoyov.
OuSei's croi, 'Epvlp.a)(e, <f>dvai tov Zat/epdV^,
u>

evavria ifrq^ielrai. ovre ydp av irov eycj drro-


os ovSev emoraadai aXXord
E

<f>rjoai.p.i,

Tf
<f>r)p.i

epojTiKa, ovre ttov 'AydOojv Kal Havaavias, ovoe


/j.rjv 'ApiOT0(f>dvr)s, a> nepl Aiovvarov Kal 'A<f>po-
8lrr)v Trdoa oiaTpiBrf, ot>8e aAAo? ouSei? rovriovl
rj

tov eyw opw. Kalroi ovk loov ylyverai rfpuv


e

rols vardrois KaraKeip.evois' dXX' edv ol irpoo-Qev


LKavais Kal koXws elnwoiv, e^apKeoei tj/juv. aAAa
TVXJI dyadfj Karap^erw OatSpo? Kal eyKwp.iat,erw
tov "E/>aira.
8fj

Ta)Ta Kal ol dXXoi irdvres apa avve<f>aodv


178 re Kal eKeXevov direp HwKpdrrjS . Ttdvrwv [xev
6

ovv a e/caoTO? ehrev, ovre -ndvv 'Apt,o~r68r)iJ,os


6

ep.ep.vqro ovr av eyw a eKelvos eXeye iravra-


a 8k (tdXiora Kal Sv eSofe /xoi dt,op,vT)p,6vevrov,
rovrwv vp.lv epto eKaorov tov Xoyov.
Ylpwrov tiev ydp, oio-nep Xeyw, e&iq Q>al8pov
ap(;dp.evov evdev8e rro9ev Xeyeiv, art. p,eyas 0e6s

98
SYMPOSIUM
, to Love ! great a god, and so neglected !
So
Now I think Phaedrus's protest a very proper one.
Accordingly I am not only desirous of obliging him
with a contribution of my own, but I also pronounce
the present to be a fitting occasion for us here
assembled to honour the god. So if you on your
part approve, we might pass the time well enough
in discourses ; for my opinion is that we ought each
of us to make a speech in turn, from left to right,
praising Love as beautifully as he can. Phaedrus
shall open first ; for he has the topmost place at
table, and besides is father of our debate."
" "
No one, Eryximachus," said Socrates, will vote
against you : I do not see how I could myself decline,
when I set up to understand nothing but love-matters ;
nor could Agathon and Pausanias either, nor yet
Aristophanes, who divides his time between Dionysus
*
and Aphrodite ; nor could any other of the persons
I see before me. To be sure, we who sit at the
I bottom do not get a fair chance : but if the earlier
speakers rise nobly to the occasion, we shall be quite
content. So now let Phaedrus, with our best wishes,
make a beginning and give us a eulogy of Love/'
To this they assented one and all, bidding "him
do as Socrates said. Now the entire speech in
each case was beyond Aristodemus's rectoileetion,
and so too the whole of what he told me Its, beyond
mine : but those parts which, on account also of the
speakers, I deemed most memorable, I w^ tell you
successively as they were delivered.

The Speech of Phaedrus


First then, I
said, he told me that the speech
as
of Phaedrus began with points of this sort that
99
PLATO

eiTj o Epws davfiaoros ev dvBpdrnois re Kal


ko.1
Oeols, iroXXaxfj (lev Kal dXXr), ovx rjKtora 8e
B Kara rrjv yeveow. to yap ev rails Trpeofivrovrov
elvai rov 9e6v rlpiov, rj 8' os' reKp.-qpi.ov he rov-
rov yovrjs yap "Epwros ovr elalv ovre Xeyovrat
in' ovSevos ovre Ihicbrov ovre ironyrov, aAA'
'Hai'oSos Trpunov pev xdos <f>7)arl yeveaOai,

avrap eneira
Tat' evpvarepvos, Trdvraiv ehos da<f>aXes aiei,
rjh

Epos.
he Kal
'

'Haio8a> A.KOvoLXea>s opoXoyel'1 <f>T)ol ftera.


to xdos hvo rovrco yeveadai, Trjv re Kal "Epa>ra.
Happevlhrfs he rr)v Yeveaw Xeyei

wptoTiurov pev "Kpcura 6e<hv prjrlaaro Ttdvruiv.


Ovrco TToWaxoOev op.oXoyelrai "Epoj? ev rois
C

npeofivraros eivat. TTpeofivraros he a>v p.eyL-


otojv ayaQwv 7jp.lv airios eorw. ov yap eycoy'
e^aj elnelv o ri pelt,6v eoriv dya96v evdvs vea>
ovti epaorrjs ^p^aros K0LL epaorTj naihiKa. o
i)

yap XP7) dv8pcl>7Tois rjyeloOai Travros rov filov tois


p,eXXovoi. koXcos fiuLoecrdai, tovto ovre ovyyeveia
o"a re epvnoielv ovra> KaXaJs ovre ripal ovre ttXov-
rl
hrj

ros ovr' dXXo ovhev he


D

co? epais. Xeyai


tovto; tt)v em p.ev toIs aloxpols aloxvvrjv, im
he toIs KaXols <f>iXori.p.iav ov yap eariv avev tov-
tu>v ovre ttoXiv Ihuurrjv p.eyaXa Kal KaXd
ovre
epya eepyd,eo6ai. (fyrjp.1 roivvv eyoj avhpa ootis
epa, ei ri aloxpov iroiwv KardhrjXos yiyvoiro
rj

"Bai6Sip ofu>\oyet (post irivruv) hue transp. Schanz.


1

.
.
.

100
SYMPOSIUM
Love was a great god, among men and gods a
marvel ; and this appeared in many ways, but
"
notably in his birth. Of the most venerable are
the honours of this god, and the proof of it is this :

parents of Love there are none, nor are any recorded


in either prose or verse. Hesiod says that Chaos
came first into being
and thereafter rose
Broad-breasted Earth, sure seat of all for aye,
And Love.1
Acusilaus 2 also agrees with Hesiod, saying that after
Chaos were born these two, Earth and Love. Par-
'
menides says of Birth that she invented Love
before all other gods.' 3
"
Thus Love is by various authorities allowed to
be of most venerable standing ; and as most vener
able, he is the cause of all our highest blessings. I
for my part am at a loss to say what greater blessing
a man can have in earliest youth than an honourable
lover, or a lover than an honourable favourite. \ For
the guiding principle we should choose for all our
days, if we are minded to live a comely life, cannot
be acquired either by kinship or office or wealth
or anything so well as by Love. What shall I call
this power ? The shame that we feel for shamefin
things, and ambition for what is noble ; without
which it is impossible for city or person to perform
any high and noble deeds. Let me then say that
a man in love, should he be detected in some shameful
act or in a cowardly submission to shameful treat-
1
Hesiod, Theog. 116 foil.
s
An Argive compiler of genealogies in the first part of
the fifth century B.C.
3
Parmen. fr. 132 ; Aristot. Met. i. 4, 984 b.
101
PLATO

Trdax<i>vvtto tov Si' dvavSplav fir) dfiwop,evos, out'


&v vtto Trarpos 6<j>0evTa ovtcos dXyfjcrai ovre vtto
eraipcov ovre vtt' dXXov ov&evds cos vtto TraiSiKcov.
E ravrov 8e tovto kcu tov epcofievov opcbfiev, ort
o~ia<j>epovTCos rovs epaords ala^werai, orav d<f>9fj
V CUOXpU) TlVl COV. 1 OW fJL7})(aV7J TIS yevoi/ro
coore ttoXw yeveadai arpaTOTreSov epaarcov re
r)
KCLI TTat,8lKCOV, OVK eOTW OTTCOS dv dp,lVOV Ol/OJ-
oeiav tt)v eavrcov r) dnexofievoi ttovtcov tcov al
ii'9 oxpdiv /ecu (f>iXoTip,ovfievot, rrpos dXXijXovs' kcu fia-
XPp.evoi y dv fier' dXXr)Xcov ol tolovtoi viKcoev dv
dXiyoi ovres, cos erros el-new, Trdvras dvdpcoTrovs-
ipedv yap dvr)p vtto TraiotKwv d(f>6fjvai r) Xnrdiv
rd^iv orrXa aTTofiaXcbv t'Jttov dv otjttov oetjairo
r)
r) vtto TrdvTcov tcov dXXcov, #cai irpd tovtov redvd-
vai dv TroXXaKis eXono- Kal p.r)v eyKaraXnTeiv ye
ra TraiSiKa r) fir) fiorjdrjoai KivSvvevovTi, ovSels
ovrco ovriva ovk dv avTos 6 "Epcos evOeov
KaKOS
TTOirjoeLe Trpos dperrjv, cocrd bfioiov ewcu rip api-
"
B or co cf>vaei. Kal drexveos, o e$r) "Ofirjpos, fievos
"
efirrvevaai eviois tcov r/pcocov rov deov, tovto
6 "Epws tols epcooi Trape)(ei yiyvop.evov -nap
airov.
Kcu firjv VTTepaTTodvr)OKei.v ye fiovoi ideXovoiv
ol epcovTes, ov fiovov Sri dvBpes, dXXa Kal
al yvvaiKes. tovtov oe Kal r) IleAiou dvydrr/p
"
AXKrjams iKavr)v fiaprvplav TTape^eTai virep rovSe
tov Xoyov els tovs "EXXrjvas, edeXrfoaoa fiovt]
vrrep tov avrfjs dvSpds diroOaveiv, ovtcov avrco
102
SYMPOSIUM
ment at another's hands, would not feel half so '

much distress at anyone observing it, whether


father or comrade or anyone in the world, as when
his favourite did ; and in the selfsame way we see
how the beloved is especially ashamed before his
lovers when he is observed to be about some shameful
business. So that if we could somewise contrive to
have a city or an army composed of lovers and their
favourites,1 they could not be better citizens of
their country than by thus refraining from all that
is base in a mutual rivalry for honour ; and such
men as these, when fighting side by side, one might
almost consider able to make even a little band
victorious over all the world.i For a man in love7
would surely choose to have afl the rest of the host!
rather than his favourite see him forsaking his station]
or flinging away his arms ; sooner than this, hej
i would prefer to die many deaths : while, as for
leaving his favourite in the lurch, or not succouring
i him in his peril, no man is such a craven that Love's
own influence cannot inspire him with a valour
that makes him equal to the bravest born ; and
' '
without doubt what Homer calls a fury inspired 2
by a god in certain heroes is the effect produced on
lovers by Love's peculiar power. .
"
Furthermore , only,._auch as are in love, will^W/
msni_4o_die-Jiar_otliia ; not merely menwill do \
it, but women too. Sufficient witness is borne to
this statement before the people of Greece by
Alcestis, daughter of Pelias, who alone was willing
to die for her husband, though he had both father
1
There was such a " sacred band
" at Thebes,
(iepds A6xs)
which distinguished itself at Leuctra (371 B.C.).
1
Homer, //. x. 482, xv. 262.
103
PLATO

C narpos re Kou firjTpos' ovs eKelvr- rooovrov vrtep-


efidXero rfj <f>t,Xla Sid rov epcora, aiare dwoSei^ai
avrovs dXXorplovs ovras rep vlei Kal oVd^ian
fj.ovov irpoorjKovras' Kai rovr epyaaafievr] ro ep-
yov ovtco KaXov e8oev ipya.o~a.o6ai ov p.6vov av-
Opdtmois dAAd Kal Oeols, ware noXXdiv 7roAAd Kal
naiv ehoaav

8~j
/caAa ipyaoa/xevcDV evapiOp,rjrois
rovro yepas ol Beoi, "Ai8ov dvetvat, rrdXiv rrjv

i
dAAd Ti)v eKelvr/s dvelaav dyaodevres rep
ifivxtfvj
epyco- ovrco Kal deol ttjv rrepl rov epcora orrovS-jv
D

re Kal dperrjv [idXiora rificooiv. 'Op<j>ea Se rov


"AiSou, <f>dafj.a Sei-
e
Oldypov dreXfj dTTe-rp,ifiav
avres ryjs yvvaiKOS e<f>' rjv fJKev, avrrjv Se ov
Sovres, on /xaA0a/a'ecr0ai e'SoVei, are cbv Kidap-
cpSos, Kal ov roA/xac eveKa rov epcoros dnoOv-j-
OKeiv utenrep "AAktjoti?, dAAd Siapirj-^avaadai t,u>v
eioxeVai els "AiSou. roiydproL Sid ravra Si'ktjv
avrcp eTTedeoav, Kal etToLrjoav rov ddvarov avrov
vtto yvvaiKcov yeveadai, cooTrep'A^iAAea tov
E

oi>x
rrjs en8os vlov irlfir/crav Kal eis fiaKaptov vr\-
aovs dTrenefu/jav, Sri rreirvafjievos irapd rrjs \i-r\-
rpos cos d-rrodavolro drroKreivas E/cro/sa, p.7] ano-
Kreivas Se rovrov oi/caS-
yrjpaios reXevrtfaoi,
eXOchv

eroXjxrjoev eXeoOai, fiorjdrjoas rut epq.orfj Uarpo-


80 kXo> Kal nfitoprjoas ov fiovov VTrepairodaveiv dAAd
\

Kal eTTa-troOavetv rereXevrr/Kon- odev Kal vrrep-


817

ayaaBevres ol deol oia<f>ep6vra>s avrov erlfitjoav,


on rov epaorrjv ovrco Trepl ttoXXov erroielro. Ai
104
SYMPOSIUM
and mother. So high did her love exalt her over
them in kindness, that they were proved alien to
their son and but nominal relations ; and when she
achieved this deed, it was judged so noble by gods
as well as men that, although among all the many
doers of noble deeds they are few and soon counted
to whom the gods have granted the privilege of
having their souls sent up again from Hades, hers
they thus restored in admiration' of her act. In
this manner even the gods give special honour to
zeal and courage in concerns of love. But Orpheus,
son of Oeagrus, they sent back with failure from
Hades, showing him only a wraith of the woman
for whom he came ; her real self they would not
bestow, for he was accounted to have gone upon
a coward's quest, too like the minstrel that he was,
and to have lacked the spirit to die as Alcestis did
for the sake of love, when he contrived the means of
entering Hades alive. Wherefore they laid upon
him the penalty he deserved, and caused him to
meet his death at the hands of women : whereas
Achilles, son of Thetis, they honoured and sent to
his place in the Isles of the Blest,1 because having
learnt from his mother that he would die as surely
as he slew Hector,2 but if he slew him not, would
return home and end his days an aged man, he
bravely chose to go and rescue his lover Patroclus,
avenged him, and sought death not merely in his
behalf but in haste to be joined with- him whom
death had taken. For this the gods so highly
admired him that they gave him distinguished
honour, since he set so great a value on his lover.
1 Pindar, 01. ii. 78 foil. (Homer, Od. xi. 467 foil., places
him in Hades). a
Homer, 11. xviii. 96.
105
PLATO

a\vXos Se <f>Xvapel <f>daKcov 'A^tAAe'a YlarpoKXov


os koXXlcov ov jmovov HarpoKXov dAAa

r)v
epdv,
/cat 'rcov r/pcocov anavrcov, kcli en ayeveios, erreira.
vecorepps ttoXv, cos <f>7)oiv "Opvqpos. dAAa. yap rco
dvn /zdAiora ravrr/v rr)v dperrjv ol rc-
B

p,ev Oeol
utom rrjv rrepl rov epoora, p,aXXov /zeVroi 6av/j.d-
t,ovoi /cat dyavrat Kal ev ttoiovoiv, orav epoo-

6
uevos rov epaorrjv ayarra, orav o epaarr/s rd.

rj
7rat8t/cd. deidrepov yap ipaarr)s rraioiKCov evdeos
yap ear i. hid ravra Kal rov 'A^tAAea rrjs 'AX-
/oyariSo? fidXXov enp,rjaav, els p.aKapcov vr]aovs
aTTonep.ipavres
.

Ovrco or) eycoye <f>rjp.r "Epcora Oetov /cat rrpe-


afivrarov Kal npiioorarov /cat Kvpiwrarov elvai els
dperfjs /cat ev8aip.ovias Krrjaiv dvdpoJTrois Kal
d>cri /cat reXevrriaaaiv .

OatSpov (iev roiovrov nva Xoyov e<f>r) elirelv,


C

fierd Se OatSpov dXXovs nvds elvai, cbv ov


rrdvv BiepLvrjfiovevev ovs rrapeis rov Havaaviov
elirelv avrdv on Ov koXcos
S'

Xoyov 8t.r)yelro.
/ioi So/cei, OaiSpe, TrpofiefiXfjadai Xoyos,
ai

rjp.lv
6

rd airXws ovrcos TTaprjyyeXdat, eyKcouid^eiv "Epcora.


yap els "Epais, KaXcos av ef^e- vw he
"fy>
el

p.ev
ov yap ear w els' p.r) ovros Se evds dpdorepov eo-ri
D rrporepov rrpopprjdfjvai ottoIov Set ewaivelv. eyu>
ovv 7rei.pdaop.ai rovro errhvppdooaaaOai, rrpGyrov
p.ev"Epcora <j>pdaai ov Set eiraivetv, erreira err-
aweaai aminos rov 8eov. rravres yap toy/ev on ovk
106
SYMPOSIUM
And Aeschylus1 talks nonsense when he says that
it was Achilles who was in love with Patroclus ; for he
excelled in beauty not Patroclus alone but assuredly
all the other heroes, being still beardless and,- more
over, much the younger, by Homer's account.? For in
truth there is no sort of valour more respected by the
gods than this which comes of love ; yet they are even
more admiring and delighted and beneficent when /
the beloved is fond of his lover than when the lover I
is fond of his favourite ; since a lover, filled as heTTi if
is with a god, surpasses his favourite in divinity. / I
This is the reason why they honoured Achilles above-^
Alcestis, giving him his abode in the Isles of the Blest.
"
So there is my description of Love that he is
the most venerable and valuable of the gods, and
that he has sovereign power to provide all virtue
and happiness for men whether living or departed." J
"^

The Speech of Pausanias


Such in the main was Phaedrus' speech as re
ported to me. It was followed by several others,
which my friend could not recollect at all clearly ;
so he passed them over and related that of Pausanias,
"
which ran as follows : I do not consider, Phaedrus,
our plan of speaking a good one, if the rule is simply
that we are to make eulogies of Love. If Love were
only one, it would be right ; but, you see, he is not
one, and this being the case, it would be more correct
to have it previously announced what sort we ought
to praise. Now this defect I will endeavour to
amend, and will first decide on a Love who deserves
our praise, and then will praise him in terms worthy
of his godhead. We are all aware that there is no
1
Aesch. Myrm.fr. 135-136. 8
Homer, II. xi. 786.
107
PLATO
ctt iv dvev "Epcoros 'A^poSlrrj. fitds (ikv ovv
ovorjs ety av i]v apcus' 7ret oe or) ovo earov, ovo
avayKT) /cat hipcore ewai. ttcos o ov ovo too aea ;
7] ftev ye ttov TTpeo^vrepa Kal dprffoip Ovpavov

fjv
dvydrrjp, Kal Ovpavlav enovop,dt,op.ev Se

Si)

t)
vecorepa Aid? Kal Aicbvrjs, IlavSii/iov KaXov-

fjv
St)
Kal "Epoora tov p,kv rfj irepq.

St)
pev. dvayKatov
E

ovvepyov Hdv8rjp,ov opQws KaXeladai, tov Se


Ovpa.vi.ov. e-naweiv p,ev ovv Set TrdvTas deovs, a.

ovv eKarepos neipareov eliretv. irdaa


S

etAr^e
181 ydp irpa^is <Lo' e^er ciutt) i(f>' eavrrjs Ttparro-
ovre KaXrj ovre aloxpd. olov vvv T/juet?

o
p.ev7]

TTOLovp,ev, mveiv aSetv SiaXeyeardai, ovk eort


fj

fj
fj

tovtcov avro KaXov ovSev, dXX' ev rfj Trpdei, cbs

av Trpaxdfj, toiovtov oW/Sti- koXcos p.ev yap npar-


Top,evov Kal opdoos koXov yiyverai, p,rj opOdbs Se
koL to epav Kal
St)

alo~xpdv. ovroo "E/)a>s ov 7rds


6

cort KaXos ouSe aws eyKcop,ideodai, dXX'

6
koXws irpoTpencov epav.
'0 rfjs
'

p,ev oSv TlavStfp^ov A</>po8iT-qs cbs

irdvor)p,6s eort /cat eepydeTai o Tt av


B

dXrjOcos

tvxW Ka'- ^T? eo~TW ov ol (pavXoi tcov avdpooTrcov


epdjoiv. ipwoi Se ol toioutoi npwTov fxev ovx
fjTTOV ywaiKcov TraLocov, eVetTa epcoai
cov /cat
fj

tcov oo)p.dra)v p.aXXov tcov Jivxojv, eVeiTa cbs ay


fj

Supaiirai dvorjTOTaTWV, Ttpos to hianpd^aadai


p,6vov fSXenovTes dp,eXovvTes Se tov koXcos
fj

yLtTj.
,

108
SYMPOSIUM

Aphrodite or Love-passion without a Love. True, if


that goddess were one, then Love would be one :
but since there are two of her, there must needs be
two Loves also. Does anyone doubt that she is
double ? Surely there is the elder, of no mother
born, but daughter of Heaven, whence we name her
Heavenly ; * while the younger was the child of
Zeus and Dione, and her we call Popular.2 It
follows then that of the two Loves also the one ought
to be called Popular, as fellow-worker with the one
of those goddesses, and the other Heavenly. All
gods, of course, ought to be praised : but none the
less I must try to describe the faculties of each of
these two. For of every action it may be observed
that as acted by itself it is neither noble nor base.
For instance,dn our conduct at this moment, whether
we drink Or sing or converse, none of these things
is noble in itself ; each only turns out to be such in
the doing, as the manner of doing it may be. For
when the doing of it is noble and right, the thing
itself becomes noble ; when wrong, it becomes base.
So also it is with loving, and Love is not in every case
noble or worthy of celebration, but only when he
impels us to love in a noble manner.
"
Now the Love that belongs to the Popular
Aphrodite is in very truth popular and does his
work at haphazard : this is the Love we see in the,
meaner sort of men ; who, in the first place, loveP*
women as well as boys ; secondly, where they love,
they are set on the body more than the soul ; and
thirdly, they choose the most witless people they K
can find, since they look merely to the accomplish
ment and care not if the manner be noble or no.
1 Herod, i. 105, 131 ; Pausan. i. 146. 2
Pausan. i. 22. 3.
PLATO

tl
av rv^coai, rovro
(jvfx^aivei avrois, o

Si)
bdev
npdrrew, 6p.oicos p.ev dyadov, 6p.oicos e rovvav-
Ttov. ear yap Kal amo rrjs deov vecorepas re
C

i
ovorjs ttoXv rrjs erepas, /ecu fiere^ovaiqs ev rfj

T)
yeveaei Kal drjXeos Kal dppevos. oe rrjs Ovpa-

6
vias Trpcorov p.ev ov p,erexovo~>]s drjXeos dXX' dp
pevos p.6vov [/ecu eoriv ovros o rcov rralocov epcos'Y
erreira rrpeofivrepas vfipecos dfxoipov odev or) irrl

,
ro dppev rpenovrai ot e/c rovrov rov epcoros em-
ttvoi, ro cpvoei eppcofxeveorepov /ecu vow p.aXXov e)(ov
dyancovres. Kal, ns dv yvolt] Kal ev avrfj rfj
Traioepaoria rovs eiXiKpivcos vtto rovrov rov epco-
ros cbpprjp.evovs' ov yap epctioi nalocov, dXX' errei-
D

odv rj8rj dpxcovrai vovv taxeiv rovro he TrXr)oid,et.


rep yeveidoKeiv. rrapeoKevaap-evoi yap, olp.ai,
elalv ol ivrevOev dpxpp.evoL ipdv cos rov filov
drravra ovveaop.evoi Kal Kouvfj ovp.fiicoa6iJ.evoi,
dXX' ovk i^arrarrjaavres ev dcf>poavvrj Xafiovres
,

cbs veov, KarayeXdaavres olj(r}creadai erf aXXov


dnorpexovres XPW ^e *a' vop.ov elvat p,r) ipdv
"rralocov, Iva p,r) els dSrjXov TroXXr) arrovhr) dv-
E

qXiOKero' ro yap rcov rraiocov reXos dorjXov ot re-


Xevrd /ca/a'a? Kal dperfjs tfivxrjs re nepi Kal aco-
p.aros. ol p.ev ovv ayadoi. rov vop.ov rovrov avrol
avrois eKovres rlOevrai, XPr)v ^ Ka' rovrovs rovs
rravor]p.ovs epaaras irpoaavayKa.t,eiv ro roiovrov,
182 warrep Kal rcov iXevOepcov yvvaiKcov rrpoaavayKa-
t,op.ev avrovs Ka6' ocrov ovvdp.e9a p,rj ipdv. ovroi
yap elaiv ol Kal ro ovetSos rreTroirjKores, wore rivas
roXp.av Xeyeiv cos alo~xp6v xapL^eodai epacrrais'
Xeyovai oe els rovrovs drroflXeirovres opcovres
,

Kal Ipws seel. Schtttz.


1

.
.
.

110
SYMPOSIUM
Hence they find themselves doing everything at
haphazard, good or its opposite, without distinction :
for this Love proceeds from the goddess who is far ,,
the younger of the two, and who in her origin
partakes of both female and male. But the other
Love springs from the Heavenly goddess who, v
firstly, partakes not of the female but only of the
male ; and secondly, is the elder, untinged with ^
wantonness : wherefore those who are inspired by
this Love betake them to the male, in fondness for
what has the robuster nature and a larger share of
mind. Even in the passion for boys you may note
the way of those who are under the single incitement
of this Love : they love boys only when they begin
to acquire some mind a growth associated with
that of down on their chins. For I conceive that
those who begin to love them at this age are prepared
to be always with them and share all with them
as long as fife shall last : they will not take ad
vantage of a boy's green thoughtlessness to deceive
him and make a mock of him by running straight
off to another. Against this love of boys a law\
should have been enacted, to prevent the sad waste \ V*
of attentions paid to an object so uncertain : for ) *
who can tell where a boy will end at last, vicious or /
virtuous in body and soul ? Good men, however,/
voluntarily make this law for themselves, and it is
' '
a rule which those popular lovers ought to be
forced to obey, just as we force them, so far as we
can, to refrain from loving our freeborn women.
These are the persons responsible for the scandal
which prompts some to say it is a shame to gratify
one's lover : such are the cases they have in view,

ill
PLATO

avpfiawei airols, o ri av rvyixiai, tovtc

Sr)
odev
npdrrew, 6p,olcos dyaQov, 6p,olcos oe rovvav-
p.kv
rlov. ear yap Kal arro rijs 6eov vecorepas -re
C

i
ovar/s ttoXv rfjs erepas, xai perexovorjs ev ttj

rj
yeveaei Kal dfjXeos Kal dppevos. Se ttjs Ovpa-

6
vlas rrpu>TOv p,ev ov p.erexovaf]s drjXeos dAA' ap
pevos p,ovov \jcai ear xv ovros o rcov rraibcov epcos"]1
eneira TrpeafSvrepas vftpecos dpiolpov o6ev or) errl

,
ro dppev rperrovrai ol ex rovrov rov epcoros em-
rtvoi, ro <f>voet. eppcop\,evearepov Kal vovv puaXXov e^ov
ayairuovres . Kal rt,s av yvolr) Kal ev avrfi rfj
naiSepaarla rovs elXiKpivws vtto rovrov rov epco-
ros cbpp,rjp,ivovs' ov ydp epipai. nalocov, dAA' errei-
D

oav rjorj dpxovrai vovv la\eiv rovro 8e TrXr]aia.Z,ei


ra> yeveidaKeiv. napeaKevaap,evoi yap, ot/xat,
elow oi evrevdev apxop-evoi epdv cos rov fStov
drravra avveaopevoi Kal Kouvfj avp,f$icoo6p.voi,
dAA' ovk etjanarrjoavres, ev d</>poovvrj Xapovres
cos veov, KarayeXaaavres oixrjaeadai err dXXov
dnorpexovres XPW ^ Ka^ vopuov etvai p.rj epdv
.

rraiocov, Iva p.r) els dorjXov rroXXrj arrovor) av-


E

rjXiaKero- ro yap rcov rraiocov reXos aorjXov ot re-


Xevrd KaKias Kal dperr)s ifivxrjs re rrepi Kal aco-
jxaros. ol p.ev ovv dyadoi rov vop.ov rovrov avroi
avrols eKovres rlQevrai, XPW ^ KaL Tovrovs rovs
wavorjpiovs epaords TrpooavayKa^eiv ro rowvrov,
182 coarrep Kal rcov eXevQepcov H^rvaiKcov rrpoaavayKa-

t,op:evavrovs i<a9' oaov 'da p,r) epdv. ovrot
ydp elaiv ol Kal ro * jir/Kores, coare rivas
roA/xav Xeyeiv Mipll^eaQai epaarals'
Xeyovai he fTofiXerrovres, 6pcovn<
seel. Schiitz.
110
SYMPOSIUM

s^s?. -r%;isthtejey Jtsr^

f to
another fck of W bv ess to
dece^

I***toto obey
ts:

3S5r
!
>opW'tre,ves'
reS T*
>

as we
oue*Ti
*

4^
Jf

force
e

-
-
e
PLATO
avrujv
rr)v aKaipiav Kal doiKiav, errel ov hrjrrov
KOCTfJUCOS ye Kai VOpipOJS oriovv rrparropevov tfio-
yov av 8iKala>s cfrepoi.
Kat Kal rtepl rov epaira vop.os ev pev rats

S17

6
dXXais rroXeai vofjcrai pdoios- dirXws yap topiarai-
8'

evdd&e [Kal ev AaKeoaipovi]1 ttoikiXos. ev


6

HAiSi p.ev yap xrat ev Botcoroty, /cat ov p.r) ao<f>oi


B

Xeyeiv, dirXaJs vevopoderqrai koXov to xapil,eadai


epaarais, Kal ovk av tis eirroi ovre veos ovre rra-
Xaios cos aiaxpov, "va, otpai, p,rj TTpa.yp.aT e^axji
Xoycp rreipwpevoi rreideiv rovs veovs, are dSvvaroi
Xeyeiv rfjs oe 'laivias Kal dXXoOi TroXXa^ov at-
a\pov vevopiorai, 0001 vtto flapfidpois oikovoi. roils
yap fiapfidpois Sid ras rvpawioas aloxpdv rovro
C

re Kal ye <f>iXoao(t>ia Kal <f>iXoyvp,vaaria' ov


17

r)

yap, olpai, avp<f>epei rois apxovai <j>povqp,ara


peydXa eyyiyveadai ra>v dpxopevoov, ovSe <j>iXias
loxvpas Kal Koivojvias, o piaXiara <$iAei rd re
8r)

dXXa navra Kai epojs eprroieiv. epycp Se rovro


o

epaOov Kal ol-evddSe rvpavvoi- yap 'Apiaro-


6

yeirovos epcos Kai 'AppoSiov <f>iXia fiefiaios


r)

yevopevq KareXvaev avrcov rr)v apxi)v. ovtojs ov


pev alaxpov ereBrj xapi,eodai epaarais, KaKia rwv
Keirai, roov pev dpxdvroiv rrXeove^iq,
D

Oepevuiv
rwv oe dpxopevojv dvavopiq.- oS Se koXov drrXws
evopiodr), td rr)v ratv 6ep.evojv rijs ifivx^s apylav.
evOdSe he rroXv rovrcov KaXXiov vevopx>derr]rai,
Kal orrep ehrov, ov pdSiov Karavorjaai.
'JLvdvprjdevn yap on Xeyerai KaXXiov to

Kai iv AaKcdalixovi seel. Winckelmann.


1

112
SYMPOSIUM
for they observe all their reckless and wrongful
doings ; and surely, whatsoever is done in an orderly
and lawful manner can never justly bring reproach.
" Further,
it is easy to note the rule with regard to
love in other cities : there it is laid down in simple
terms, while ours here is complicated. For in Elis
and Boeotia and where there is no skill in speech
they have simply" an ordinance that it is seemly
to gratify lovers, and no one whether young or old
will call it shameful, in order, I suppose, to save
themselves the trouble of trying what speech can
do to persuade the youths ; for they have no ability
for speaking. But in Ionia and many other regions
where they live under fbreign sway, it is counted a
disgrace. Foreigners hold this thing, and all train
ing in philosophy and sports, to be disgraceful,
because of their despotic government ; since, I
presume, it is not to the interest of their princes
to have lofty notions engendered in their subjects,
or any strong friendships and communions ; all of
which Love is pre-eminently apt to create. It is
a lesson that our despots learnt by. experience ;
for Aristogeiton's love and Harmodius's friendship
grew to be so steadfast that it wrecked their
power. Thus where it was held a disgrace-to
gratify one's lover, the tradition is due to the * evil
ways of those who made such a law that is, to
the encroachments of the rulers and to the cowardice
of the ruled. But where it was accepted as honour
able without any reserve, this was due to a sluggish
ness of mind in the law-makers. In our city we
have far better regulations, which, as I said, are
not so easily grasped.
"
Consider, for instance, our saying that it is more
vol. v i 113
PLATO

<f>aveptos ipav tov Xddpa, /cat p,dXiarTa tcov yev-


vaiorarcov /cat apioTcov, Kav aio^t'ou? aAAaw cool,
/cat on av r) TrapaKeXevais rq> epcovTi rrapd tt&v-
E tcov davpaoTf). ov\ cos rt ala\pov ttoiovvti, kcu
eXovTi Te KaXov So/cet elvcu /cat p,r) eAoVrt alaxpov,
/cat Trpos to imxeipew eXelv li~ovaiav 6 vop.os
SeScoKe tcu
epaarfj 6avp,aara epya epyaop,evip
enaiveiaOai, a ei rt? ToXp,cpr] iroielv aXX otlovv
183 8icokcov kcu l3ovX6p,evos 8ia-rrpdao9ai ttXtjv tovto
to, p,eyi<jra KapTroiT' av
[<f>t,Xooo(f>las] j1 6vel8r]- el
yap 7} xprfpara fiovXopievos Trapd tov Xa/Selv 7)
Q-PXh" ttp^at TW* dXXrjv hvvap,iv ideXot. Troieiv
""]

oldrrep ol epaarral irpos rd 7rai8i/ca, t/cereia? xe


/cat dvTtjSoA^CTet? eV rat? SerJcreCTt iroLovpevoi, /cat
SpKovs opvvvTes, Kai Koip,~qaeis em dvpais, /cat
edeXovres SovXeias SovXevew olas ovo' av SovXos
oiSeis, ep.TTOoLt,oiTO dv p.rj irpdrretv ovtco tt)v
irpd^w /cat vtto cplXcov /cat vtto eydpcov, tcov p,ev
B

SveiSt,l6vTC0V /coAa/cet'a? /cat dveXevBepias tcov Se


,

vovOstovvtcov /cat alayyvop,evoyv v-rrep avTcov tu>

eptovri TrdvTa raura ttoiovvti XaPls e-neoTi, Kat


8

SeSorat j5tto tou vop,ov dvev ovecSovs irpaTTew, cos


TrdyKaXov rt
Trpayp,a oianpaTTopevov o Se Set-
voTarov, cos ye Aeyouow ot 7roAAot, ort /cat opwn
ptovcp rrapd detov eK^avTt tov op/cov
avyyvLO\i,f]
d<f>po8lcnov yap opKov ov <f>aoiv eivav ovru> /cat ot
deol /cat ot avdpamoi nacrav iovmav ireiToirJKaoL
C

sec). Schleierm.
1

0iXocro0(as
114
SYMPOSIUM
honourable to love openly than in secret, especially
when the beloved excels not so much in beauty as
in nobility and virtue ; and again, what a wonderful
encouragement a lover gets from us all : we have
no thought of his doing anything unseemly, and
success in his pursuit is counted honourable and
failure disgraceful ; and how in his endeavours for
success our law leaves him a free hand for performing
such admirable acts as may win him praise ; while
the same acts, if attempted for any other purpose
or effect to which one might be inclined, would
bring one nothing in return but the sharpest reproach.
For suppose that with the view of gaining money
from another, or some office, or any sort of influence,
a man should allow himself to behave as lovers
commonly do to their favourites pressing their
I
suit with supplications and entreaties, binding
'
themselves with vows, sleeping on doorsteps, and
submitting to such slavery as no slave would ever
' endure both the friends and the enemies of such
a man would hinder his behaving in such fashion ;
for while the latter would reproach him with adula
tion and ill-breeding, the former would admonish
him and feel ashamed of his conduct. But in a
!
lover all such doings only win him favour : by free
grant of our law he may behave thus without
reproach, as compassing a most honourable end.
Strangest of all, he alone in the vulgar opinion has
indulgence from the gods when he forsakes the
vow he has sworn ; for the vow of love-passion,
they say, is no vow.1 So true it is that both gods
and men have given absolute licence to the lover,
1
Of. " Sophocles, fr. 694 SpKovs Si p.oix""' els ri<ppav eyu
ypi<pu, the lecher's vows in ashes I record."
115
PLATO
tu> ip&VTi, dis 6 vo/xos <f>r)alv 6 ev9doe. ravTrj p.ev
ovv olrjdelrj dv ns irdyKaAov vop.i^eadai ev TJjoe
Tjj noAei Kal to epdv Kal to (j>lXovs yiyveadai toZs
epaorcus. 7rei8av Se TTaiSayojyous emaTrjaav-
Tes ol Ttaripes rols ipojp,evoi,s p.rj edjat StaAeye-
oOai toZs epaaTaZs, koI tco TraiSaycoyai ravra irpoa-
rjXiKicorai 8e Kal eTaZpot1 oWi8icu-
rj,
Tera.yp.iva
aw, idv tl opaJac tolovto yi.yv6p.evov, Kal tovs
D

6vei8lovTas av ol TTpeofSvrepot, ju.17 SiaKwAuojcri


p,rjoe Xoiooputow d>s ovk opdcjs XeyovTas, els Se
raura tis av (iXeilias rjyqaaiT' dv ndXw atoxiaTov
to tolovtov evdaoe vop,lea9ai. to Se, otpai, tuS
e\ef ov)( dirXovv eoTiv, oirep

e
dpxfjs eXeyOrj,
ovTe KaXov elvau aiiTO Ka6 avTO ovTe ala\pov,
dXXa koXcHs p,kv TrpaTTop.evov koXov, alaxp&s Se
alaxpdv. alaxpdbs p.ev ovv earl irovqpd) tc Kal
TTOvrjpcHs ^a/)ieo-0ai, koXcos 8e ^pryorai T Kal
iarlv
8'

KaXd>s. eKeZvos epaarqs

6
TTOVTjpos 6
Trdvhrjp.05, tov aa>p.aros p,dXXov ttjs 'pv)(f}s
6

77

epwv Kal yap oi58e p.6vip,6s iariv, are ov p,ovlp,ov


E

epCbv irpdyp,aTOS. dp,a yap ra> tov ad>p,a.TOs


"
dvdei A^yovTi, ovnep 17/30., oi^eTai amoTnd-
p,evos," ttoXXovs Xoyovs Kal imoaxeoeLS kot-
aioyyvas' Se toiJ rjQovs XP7](JT0^ ovtos epaarr/s
6

184 Sia jSt'ov p,evei, are p.ovip.u> avvTaKeis. tovtovs


St)

rjp,eTepos vop.os ev Kal KaXd>s fiaaavi-


6

/SovAercu
t,ew, Kal toZs p.ev xapiaaodai, tovs Se 8ia<j>evyew .
Sta TOVTa oSv toZs p.ev 8iu>Kew TrapaKeXeverac,
toZs Se <f>evyew, dycDvodeTcov Kal fiaoavl^cov ttotc-
eroipoi Heindorf trepot mss.
1

So Agamemnon speaks of the dream which brought


1

him a message through the lips of Nestor (Homer, II. ii. 71).
116
SYMPOSIUM
as our Athenian law provides. Thus far, then, we
have ground for supposing that here in our city
both loving some one and showing affection to one's
lover are held in highest honour. But it happens
that fathers put tutors in charge of their boys when
they are beloved, to prevent them from conversing
with their lovers : the tutor has strict injunctions
on the matter, and when they observe a boy to be
guilty of such a thing his playmates and fellows
reproach him, while his reproachers are not in their
turn withheld or upbraided by their elders as speaking
amiss ; and from this it might rather be inferred
that his behaviour is held to be a great disgrace
in Athens. Yet the truth of it, I think, is this :
the affair is no simple thing ; you remember we
said that by itself it was neither noble nor base,
but that it was noble if nobly conducted, and
base if basely. To do the thing basely is to gratify
' '
a wicked man in a wicked manner : nobly
means having to do with a good man in a
' '
noble manner. By wicked we mean that popular
lover, who craves the body rather than the soul :
as he is not in love with what abides, he himself is
not abiding. As soon as the bloom of the body
he so loved begins to fade he ' flutters off and is
gone,' * leaving all his speeches and promises dis
honoured : whereas the lover of a nature that is
worthy abides throughout life, as being fused into
one with the abiding.
"
Now our law has a sure and excellent test for
the trial of these persons, showing which are to be
favoured and which to be shunned. In the one case,
accordingly, it encourages pursuit, but flight in the
other, applying ordeals and tests in each case,
117
PLATO

pa>v irore eariv 6 Kai irorepatv o epa>p.evos


epcov
vtto ravrr/s rrjs alrlas irpwrov p.ev to

8rj
ovra>
aXitTKeodat ru.xv o.la\pov vevopaarai, Iva xpovos
8oKei ra iroXXd koXcos ^aoavl^eiv

8r)
eyyevrjrai, os
etreira to i5770 xPr]tJl'^Ta>v Kal vito iroXiriKcov
8vvdp,eu>v dXuivai alaxpov, edv re kclkios irdaxojv
B

TTTT]r) Kal p.r) Kapreprfor), av r evepyerovp.evos


els XPVfiaTa ek 8iairpdeis iroXiriKas p,rj Kara-
V
<f>povqorf ov8ev yap 8oKei rovrojv ovre fiefiaiov
ovre p.6vip.ov etvai, xu)pis rov p,rj8e rre(f)VKevai an'

8rj
avrtov yevvalav (f>iXlav p,ta Xelirerai t<3

r)p.erepuj vofjbU) 6S6s,


el xapteiaflai
/xe'AAet KaXcos
epaarfj irai8i,Kd. eon yap rjp.iv vop.os, oiairep em
C

rols epacrrals 8ovXevew edeXovra tjvtivovv 8ov-


r)v

Xelav 77ai8i/cot? pr) KoXaKeiav elvaL p,r)8e iirovel8i-


arov, ovroi Kal dXXrj fiia p,6vr\ 8ovXela eKovaios
8r/

Xelirerai, ovk enovel8ioTOS' avrrj 84 eariv irepl

r)
ttjV aperr\v.
8ij

Nev6p,t,orai yap r)pXv, edv ris ideXr/ rivd


Si

Oepaireveiv rjyovp,evos eKeZvov ap,eivcov eoeoBai


Kara oo(f>lav two. Kara dXXo oriovv p,epos
r)

r)

dperfjs, avrrj a3 i6eXo8ovXela ovk ala\pd elvat


r)

ov8e KoXaKela. 8eZ rw vop,a> rovrai avpL/SaXeiv


8r)

els ravrov, rov re irepl rrjv irai8epaorlav Kal rov


D

irepl rrjv (f>iXoao(j)lav re Kal rrp> dXXrjv dperr\v,


el

p,eXXei crvp.firjvai KaXov yeveadat ro epaarfj irat,-


8iKa xapiaaodai. orav yap eiy ro avro eXdiooiv
epaorrfs re Kal itai8iKa, vop.ov e^wv eKarepos,
6

p.ev ^ayotcra/xevot? iratSiKots virrjperiov oriovv


8iKala>s av virrjpereiv, 8e rat ttoiovvti avrov
6

118
SYMPOSIUM

whereby we are able to rank the lover and the beloved


on this side or on that. And so it is for this reasonA
that our convention regards a quick capitulation J -/
as a disgrace : for there ought, first, to be a certain I
interval the generally approved touchstone of I
time ; and, second, it is 'disgraceful if the surrender [
is due to gold or public preferment, or is a mere \
cowering away from the endurance of ill-treatment, /
or shows the youth not properly contemptuous of
such benefits as he may receive in pelf or political
success. For in these there appears nothing stead
fast or abiding, unless it be the impossibility of
their producing a noble friendship. One way
remains in our custom whereby a favourite may
rightly gratify his lover : it is our rule that, just as"~\
in the case of the lovers it was counted no flattery
or scandal for them to be willingly and utterly L
enslaved to their favourites, so there is left one sort V
of voluntary thraldom which is not scandalous ;. I |
s
\\
mean, in the cause of virtue.
"
It is our settled tradition that when a man freely
devotes his service to another in the belief that his
friend will make him better in point of wisdom, /
it may be, or in any of the other parts of virtue, /
this willing bondage also is no sort of baseness /
or flattery. Let us compare the two rules one
dealing with the passion for boys, and the other
with the love of wisdom and all virtuous ways : by
this we shall see if we are to conclude it a good thing
that a favourite should gratify his lover. For when
lover and favourite come together, each guided by
his own rule on the one side, of being justified in
doing any service to the favourite who has obliged
him, and on the other, of being justified in showing

nr,
PLATO

oo<f>6v re Kal dyaOov Si/cauos at? otiow dv inrovp-


yCov <VTrovpyeiv>,1 Kal 6 p.ev Bwdfievos els <f>pov7]-
E ouv Kal rrjv dXXrjv dperrjv crvfifidWearOai, 6 Se

8e6fj.evos els iraihevaiv Kal ttjv dXXrjv o~o<f>lav ktS.-


adat, Tore tovtcov owiovtcov els raiirdv tcov

8r)
vo)xojv p,ovaxpv evravda ovfxiriTTTei to KaXov elvai
7ratSi/ca epaarfj ^apiaaadai, dXXodi 8e ovSafxov.
em tovtco Kal eaTTaTT)8fjvai ovSev ala\pov em
oe tois dXXois TTaoi Kal eaTraTCOfievcp ala^vvrjv
185 <f>epei Kal /laij. ydp ris epaoTrj cos irXovaim
el
ttXovtov eveKa xaPl<fd(ievos e^aTTaTrjdecT] Kal firj
Aa/Sot xprj/jiaTa, dva<f>avevTOS tov epaarov Trevrjros,
ovSev fjTTOv alaxpov SoKel yap toiovtos to ye

6
avrov emSeiijai, on eveKa )(pr]p,dTcov otiovv dv
orcpovv VTrrjpeTOi, tovto 8e ov KaXov. Kara tov
avrov Xoyov kov ris
8t)

el

cos dyadco xapiodjAevos


Kat,avros cos afieivcov eoofievos Sia ttjv ^>iXiav tov
epaarov e^aTTarrjOelr], dva<f>avevros eKeivov KaKov
B

Kal ov KeKT7jp,evov dperrjv, op.cos KaXrj aiTary rj

SoKel ydp a8 Kal oStos to Kad' avrov Seo'rjXcoKevai,


otl aperfjs eveKa /cat tov peAruov yeveodai irav
y

dv ttovtI TTpo9vfj,7]delr), tovto 8e av irdvrcov koX-


Xiotov ovtco ttovtcos ye KaXov dperfjs eveKa XaPl~
l,eodai.
Ovtos eoriv Trjs ovpavias 6eov epcos Kal ovpd-
6

vios Kal noXXov aios Kal 7roAei Kal loicoTais, ttoA-


Xrjv em.neXei.av dvayKa^cov iroielaOai irpos dpeTrjV
rov re epcovTa avrov avrov Kal tov epcofxevov
'

ol

Baiter.
1

inrovpyGtv <vwovpyeTv>
120
SYMPOSIUM

any attentions to the friend who makes him wise


and good ; the elder of his plenty contributing to l^'
intellectual and all other excellence, the younger
in his paucity acquiring education and all learned
arts : only then, at the meeting of these two
principles in one place, only then and there, and
in no other case, can it befall that a favourite
may honourably indulge his lover. To have such
hopes deceived is no disgrace ; while those of any
other sort must be disgraceful, whether deceived or
not. For suppose that a youth had a lover he deemed
to be wealthy and, after obliging him for the sake
of his wealth, were to find himself deceived and no
money to be got, since the lover proved to be poor ;
this would be disgraceful all the same ; since the
youth may be said to have revealed his character,
and shown himself ready to do anyone any service
for pelf, and this is not honourable. By the same
token, when a youth gratifies a friend, supposing
him to be a good man and expecting to be made
better himself as a result of his lover's affection,
and then finds he is deceived, since his friend proves
to be vile and destitute of virtue ; even so the
deception is honourable. For this youth is also/?
held to have discovered his nature, by showing 1|
that he would make anyone the object of his utmost
ardour for the sake of virtuous improvement ; and
this by contrast is supremely honourable. Thus by
all means it is right to bestow this favour for thei
sake of virtue.
" \
This is the Love that belongs to the Heavenly
Goddess, heavenly itself and precious to both public
and private life : for this compels lover and beloved
alikejo- fefil-a zealous coneera_ipr~ their own virtue.
121
PLATO
S' erepoi navres rrjs irepag, rrjs Trav87]p,ov. rav-
Tct ool, e<f>rj, ws e/c rod 7rapaxpfjp,a, w OaiSpe,

nept Epwro? ovp.fidXXop,ai.


Havaavtov Se Travara.fj.evov, SiSao-zcouax yap /Lie
"era Xiyeiv ovrcoal ol ao<f>oi, e<j>r) 6 'Apiard8r]pios
'
8eZv p,ev Apiaroiavr/ Xeyeiv, Ttr^eiv Se avrw Tiva
r) vtto TrXrjap.ovrjs r) vrro twos aXXov Xvyya envne-
TTTCOKvlav Kal ov\ otdv re elvai Xeyeiv, dXX' elrreZv
D avrov ev rij Kara) yap avrov rdv larpdv 'Epu^t-
p.axov KaraKeiadai Q. Epu^iiia^e, SiVaio? et r)
navaai fie rfjs Xvyyds r) Xeyeiv virep ep.ov, eco?
av eyd) Travowpiai. Kal tov 'E*pu(;ip,axov eiTretv
'AAAa. TTOirfoa) dp.<f>drepa ravra, eyd) fiev ydp ipa>
ev rep acp p.epei, av 8 eireiSdv navojj, iv rep e/j,tp'
ev tp 0 av eyco Aeyai, eav p.ev aoi eueAr/ a-mievan
e^ovri ttoXvv xpovov TraveoOai rj Xvy- el Se fjnj,
E vSari avaKoyxyXiaaov . el 8' dpa Tidvv lar^vpa
eariv, avaXafiiov ri roiovrov otcp Kvrqaais1 dv rrjv
rovro Troirjarjs airaf; rj 81s, Kal
pZva, Trrape' /cat eav
el irdw laxvpd eari, rravaerai. Ovk dv <f>0dvois Ae-
yojv, cpdvai rdv 'Apiaro<f>dvrj- eyd) Se raura Troirjcra).
JLlrretv rdv '^Lpvi;ip,axov AoKeZ roivvv 1x01
8r)

avayKaiov elvai, eWiSij nauo-avias1 dppvqaas em


186 rdv Xdyov koXujs ot>x ikovws drrereXeae, SeiV
e/xe rreipdodai reXos emOeZvai rep Xdyep. to /j.ev
yap 8irrXovv elvai rdv "Epeora 8oKel p.01 KaAtos
8ieXeo9ai- on Se ov (jlovov earlv em rats if/v)(aZs
Kvrjacus Wyttenb. mss.
1

KLv^Gais
:

The punning assonance alludes to those sophists who


1

developed the etymological suggestions of Heracleitus and


Aeschylus into mere sound-effects for prose. A more serious
philological development discussed in Cratylus, 396.
is

122
SYMPOSIUM
But lovers of the other sort belong all to the other
Goddess, the Popular. Such, Phaedrus, is the con
tribution I am able to offer you, on the spur of the
moment, towards the discussion of Love." ; . -

Pausanias' praise made a pause with this phrase


you see what jingles the schoolmen are teaching
me ! 1 The next speaker, so Aristodemus told me,
was to have been Aristophanes : but a surfeit or
some other cause had chanced to afflict him with
a hiccough, which prevented him from speaking ; and
he could only just say to Eryximachus the doctor,
"
whose place was next below him, I look to you
Eryximachus, either to stop my hiccough, or to
"
speak in my stead until I can stop it." Why, I
"
will do both," replied Eryximachus for I will take
your turn for speaking, and when you have stopped
it, you shall take mine. But during my speech,
if on your holding your breath a good while the
hiccough chooses to stop, well and good ; otherwise,
you must gargle with some water. If, however, it
is a very stubborn one, take something that will
tickle your nostrils, and sneeze : do this once or
twice, and though it be of the stubbornest, it will
" Start
stop." away with your speech," said
"
Aristophanes, and I will do as you advise."

The Speech of Eryximachtis


"
Then Eryximachus spoke as follows : Well then,
since Pausanias did not properly finish off the speech
he began so well, I must do my best to append
a conclusion thereto. His division of Love into
two sorts appears to me a good one : but medicine,
our great mystery, has taught me to observe that
Love is not merely an impulse of human souls towajds
123
PLATO

rcov dvdpamcov rrpos rovs kclXovs dXXa Kal rrpos


dXXa rroXXd /cat eV roZs dAAoty, roZs re ocop,aaL
rcov ndvrcov Z,cpcov /cat tols ev rfj yij (j>vopevoi.s /cat
cos erros ehreZv ev Trdai roZs overt, KadecopaKevai
poi. So/ecu e/c rr)s larpiKrjs, rrjs r/perepas re)(vrjs,
B ai? peyas /cat 0avp.aar6s /cat em irav 6 deos reivei
/cat Kar dvOpcomva Kara #eta Trpa.yp.ar a.
/cat
dpopai Se a/no rfjs larpiKrjs Xeycov, Iva Kal npe-
afievcopev rrjv reyyt\v. r) yap envois rcov ocopdrcov
rov BittXoOv Epcora rovrov e^et. ro yap vyies
rov crcoparos /cat to voaovv 6poXoyovp,evcos erepov
re /cat avopoiov eari, to Se avop.oi.ov avop.oicov
emdvpeZ /cat epa. dXXos pev ovv 6 em rco vyieivcp"
epcos, aAAos oe o em rep voocooei. eari or), coo-nep
apri Havoavias eXeye roZs fiev dyadoZs KaXov
C xaptecr0ai rcov dvdpconcov, roZs Se d/coActcrTots
alo~xp6v, ovrco /cat ev avroZs rols ocdpaoi roZs p.ev
dyadoZs eKaarov rov atop,aros /cat vyieuvoZs KaXov
Xapi^eadai /cat Set, /cat rovro eorw cS ovopa to
larpiKov, roZs Se /ca/cots /cat foaoiSeatv alo~xp6v re
/cat Set d^apto-Teti', et peXXei ris rexytKos efvat.
eari yap larpiKr], cos ev Ke(f>aXatcp elrteZv, emarr]pvr\
rcov rov acoparos epcoriKcov rrpos TrXrjapMvrjv /cat
D Kevcooiv, /cat 6 SiayiyvcboKcov ev rovrois rov KaXov
re /cat aloxpov epcora, ovros eorw 6 larpLKcora-
ros, Kal 6 perafidXXeiv ttoccov, coare dvrl rov ere
pov epcoros rov erepov Krdooai, /cat ot? p/fj evecmv
epcos, Set S' eyyeveodai, emordp,evos epLrroi/qoai,
/cat evovra ieXeiv, dyados dv evt] Srjpiovpyos-
Set yap rd e^diara ovra acopari <piXa
8r)

ev rep

124
SYMPOSIUM
beautiful_jaQ_but the attraction of all creatures to
~a-fffgaTvarietyoi' things, which works in the JKxfies
of all animals and allgrowths upon the earth, and
practically in evgrythjng that is ; and I~ have learnt
how mighty and wonderfurandTiniversal is the sway
of this god over all affairs both human and divine.1
Reverence for my profession prompts me to begin
with the witness of medicine. This double Love
belongs to the nature of all bodies : for between
bodily health and sickness there is an admitted
difference or dissimilarity, and what is dissimilar
craves and loves dissimilar things. Hence the desire
felt by a sound body is quite other than that of a
sickly one. Now I agree with what Pausanias was
just saying, that it is right to gratify good men,
base to gratify the dissolute : similarly, in treating
actual bodies it is right and necessary to gratify the
good and healthy elements of each, and this is what
we term the physician's skill ; but it is a disgrace
to do aught but disappoint the bad and sickly
parts, if one aims at being an adept. For the art
of medicine may be summarily described as a know
ledge of the love-matters of the body in regard to
repletion and evacuation ; and the master-physician
is he who can distinguish there between the nobler
and baser Loves, and can effect such alteration that
the one passion is replaced by the other ; and he
will be deemed a good practitioner who is expert
in producing Love where it ought to flourish but
exists not, and in removing it from where it should
not be. Indeed he must be able to make friends
1
This cosmic theory was. derived from Empedocles, who
spoke of Love as the combining, and Strife as the disruptive,
force pervading the universe.
125
PLATO

olov t
elvai noielv Kal epdv dXXrjXoov eon Se
e^tora Ta ivavTiwTara, ifiv^pov Oep/Jicp, mKpov
yXvKeZ, r)pov vypw, -navra to. TOiavra' tovtois
E imcrTTjdels epcora ipiroiijocu /cat Sfiovoiav 6 r/fiere-.
pos npoyovos 'AaKXrjmos, cos <j>aaiv otSe ol ttoit)-
ral Kal iy<l> TreiOo/jiai, aweoT-qae ttjv 7]p,erepav
Teyyr\v. r\ re oSv larpiKr), cocmep Xeyco, naaa Sta
tov Oeov tovtov Kvfiepvarai, cbaavTcos Se /cat yv/xva-
187 OTUcr/ Kal yecopyia' /xovaiKrj Se Kal iravrl /cara-
SrjXos Kal apiKpov npoae\ovri tov vovv otl
tu>
Kara ravra. e'^et tovtois, coonep locos Kai Hpa-
/cAeiTOS fSovXerat, Xeyeiv, en-ei toZs ye prjp.aaiv ov
KaXws Xeyei. to ev yap cfrrjcri
" 8ia<f>epo/j,evov at/To
avrw crv/jubepeodai, cocnrep dp/jioviav toov re /cat
Xvpas." ecrTi Se ttoXXtj aXoyia apjxoviav <f>dvai
8ia<f>epeo9ai r) eK 8ia<j>epopevcov en ecvat. aXX
locos roSe efiovXero Xeyeiv, on e/c 8ia(/>epo^ievcov
B TrpoTepov tov 6eos Kal flapeos, eirena varepov
6p.oXoyrjodvT(x)v yeyovev vtto ttjs /u.ovo~iKfjs Texvrjs-
ov ydp Stfrrov eK 8ia<f>epop.evcov ye en tov 6eos
Kal fiapeos appovia av eirj. rj yap dpfiovia avfx-
<f)covia
earl, ovp,<f>covia Se 6/j.oXoyla ns~ dfioXoyiav
Se e/c 8ia(f>epofj,evcov, ecos dv 8iacf>epcovTai, d8v-
vaTov elvai' 8ia4>ep6p,evov Se afi Kal firj dfioXoyelv
d8vvaT0vv <8vvaTov>1 dpp,6aai, coajrep ye /cat o
C pvSjxos eK tov Taxeos Kal /3pa8eos 8ievrjveyfA,evcov
npoTepov, varepov Se ofxoXoyrjaavTcov yeyove.
ttjv Se ofioXoyiav Traoi tovtois, coonep e/cet -q
laTpiK-rj, eVra>0a 17 fiovauc^ evndrjaiv, epcora Kal
1
6tio\oyeiv aSwarovv <$vva.Tbv> Bury : bfiokoyovv dSvvaTov
MSS.

126 .
SYMPOSIUM
and happy lovers of the keenest opponents in the
body. Now the most contrary qualities are most
hostile to each other cold and hot, bitter and
sweet, dry and moist, and the rest of them. It was
by knowing how to foster love and unanimity in
these that, as our two poets 1 here relate, and as I
myself believe, our forefather Asclepius composed
this science of ours. And so not merely is all
medicine governed, as I propound it, through the
influence of this god, but likewise athletics and
agriculture. Music also, as is plain to any the least
curious observer, is in the same sort of case : perhaps
Heracleitus intends as much by those perplexing
'
words, The One at variance with itself is drawn
together, like harmony of bow or lyre.' 2 Now it is
perfectly absurd to speak of a harmony at variance,
or as formed from things still varying. Perhaps he
meant, however, that from the grave and acute
which were varying before, but which afterwards
came to agreement, the harmony was by musical
art created. For surely there can be no harmony
of acute and grave while still at variance : harmony
is consonance, and consonance is a kind of agree
ment ; and agreement of things varying, so long as
they are at variance, is impossible. On the other
hand, when a thing varies with no disability of
agreement, then it may be harmonized ; just as
rhythm is produced by fast and slow, which in the
beginning were at variance but later came to agree.
In all these cases the agreement is brought about
by music which, like medicine in the former instance,
1
Aristophanes and Agathon.
2
Heracl. fr. 45 (Bywater). The universe is held together
by the strain of opposing forces, just as the right use of bow
or lyre depends on opposite tension.
.127
PLATO

o/xovoiav dXXrjXcov ep/novr\aa.aa.- /cat eoTiv av p.ov-


ox/ct) Trepi dpp.ovi.av /cat pvdp.ov epa/Tt/cdiv em-
crrr/tiT). /cat iv p,ev ye avrfj rfj avaraaei dp/xovias
re pvOfiov ov8ev ^aXenov rd epa>Tt/cd Stayt-
/cat
yvwaKeiv, ov8e 6 8177X05? epcos evravdd ttco1 eorw
dAA' eVe tSdv 8erj irpos rovs dvdpconovs Karaxpfj-
D adai fj iroiovvra, o

St)
pvdp,a> Te /cat dp/xovta. pueXo-
Trouav KaXovaw, opdws rols TreTroirj-
^paSxtevov

r/
/xeVot? /xe'Aecri re /cat [/.erpois,

St)
7ratSet'a eKXrjdr],

o
evravOa /cat xa^-e7TOV Kal ayadov 07]p,iovpyov
St)

Set. -rrdXw ydp Tpcet avTO? Aoyo?, drt rot? /xev


d
/cotr/xtot? Tail' dvQpojmov, /cat d9 av /cooyxtajTepot
yiyvoiVTO ol pvfptix) ovres, Set ^aptecr0ai /cat <it/-
Xdrreiv rdv rovrcov epcara, /cat ojJtos eortv /caAoy,

d
ovpdvios, rfjs Ovpavcas piovarjs Epaiy
E

Se
d

d
6

IIoAuxtviaj Trdv8r)p,os, ov Set evXa.fSovp.evov -npoa-


d

(fjepeiv ots av irpoacfjepr), ottcos Sv rrjv p,ev rjBovrjv


avrov KapTTuiorjTai, d/coAaatav Se itTjSetttW e/x-
TTorforj, djonep ev rfj r/pLerepa Teyyr\ pceya epyov
rat? irepl rr/v oi/ioirouKrjv rexvqv emdvpuais /caAai?
Xpfjodai, djar' dvev voaov rr/v rjoovrjv KapTraxja-
adai. /cat ev fj.ovat.Kij /cat eV tarpt/cj) /cat ev rot?
St)

dAAotj 77acrt /cat Tot? avdpameiois /cat toi? Oelois,


Kad' daov 7rapet'/cei, (f>vXaKTeov endrepov rdv
188 "Epa/ra- evearov ydp.
'Erret /cattojv cupuiv rov eviavrov crvaraais
t)

p,eoT-q emw dp,<f>OTepcov tovtwv, /cat eWtSdv /xev


7rp6? dAAijAa rov /coa/xtou tvxTI epcoros w
St)
d

eyd) eAeyov, rd re depp,d /cat rd iftvxpd /cat ^T/pd


/cat vypd, /cat dpp,ovlav /cat Kpaaiv Xdfir) aa><f>pova,
rj/cet <j>epovTa everrjplav Te /cat vyUiav dvdpamois
ttu Badham irSs mss.
1

128
SYMPOSIUM
introduces a mutual love and unanimity. Hence
in its turn music is found to be a knowledge of
love-matters relating to harmony and rhythm. In
the actual system of harmony or rhythm we can
easily distinguish these love-matters ; as yet the
double Love is absent : but when we come to the
application of rhythm and harmony to social life,
' '
whether we construct what are called melodies
'
or render correctly, by what is known as training,'
tunes and measures already constructed, we find
here a certain difficulty and require a good crafts
man. Round comes the same conclusion : well-
ordered men, and the less regular only so as to
bring them to better order, should be indulged in
this Love, and this is the sort we should preserve ;
this is the noble, the Heavenly Love, sprung from
the Heavenly Muse. But the Popular Love comes
from the Queen of Various Song ; in applying him
we must proceed with all caution, that no debauchery
be implanted with the reaping of his pleasure, just
as in our craft we set high importance on a
right use of the appetite for dainties of the table,
that we may cull the pleasure without disease.
Thus in music and medicine and every other affair
whether human or divine, we must be on the watch
as far as may be for either sort of Love ; for both
are there.
" Note how even the
system of the yearly seasons
is full of these two forces ; how the qualities
I mentioned just now, heat and cold, drought and
moisture, when brought together by the orderly
Love, and taking on a temperate harmony as they
mingle, become bearers of ripe fertility and health

129
PLATO

/cat rots dXXois ^cpois re /cat (jjvroZs, /cat ov$ev


rjSiKrjaev orav 8e 6 fiera rrjs v/3pea)s "Epa>s ey-
Kparearepos Trepl ras rov eviavrov copas yevrjrai,
B 8t,a<f>8e(,pi, re ttoAAo. /cat r)oLKT]aev. ol re yap Aot-
uol <f>tXoaL yiyveadai e/c rwv roiovrow Kal aAA'
dvofioca 7ToAAa voar]p.ara Kal rots drjpiois Kal rots
(f>vrots' Kal yap na^yai Kal ^;aAaat Kal epvaZfiai
e/c rrXeove^ias Kal a,Koop,las Trepl dXXrjXa ra>v roiov-
ratv yiyverai epa)riK(7>v, wv eTri.arrjp.rj rrepi aarpiov
re <f>opas Kal eviavrcov a>pas darpovop,i.a /caAetrat.
en toLvvv Kai at dvoiai -rraaai Kai ois p.avriKr)
C eTriarareZ ravra 8' early r) Trepl deovs re koX
dvOpwrrovs rrpos aXXr/Xovs KoivawLa ov Trepl dXXo
rt ear tv r) Trepl "Epa>ros <f>vXaKrjv re Kal iaaiv.
yiyveadai, edv pvrj ris
1
Traoa yap \rj\ doefieia <j>iXeZ
Koa/Jiiu) EpcoTi )(apit,T]rai p.rj8e rip.a re avrov
Kal Trpeapevrj ev rravrl epyai, dXXd [wept]2 rov ere-
pov, Kal Trepl yoveas Kal u>vras Kal rereXevrr/KO-
ras Kal Trepl deovs- a rrpoareraKrai rfj p.avriKjj
8r)

emaKOTreiv rovs "Epcoras Kal larpeveiv, Kal eanv


av fiavriKr) <f>t,Xias dewv /cat dvdpioTriov 8rjp,iovp-
D

r)

yos ra> errlaraadai rd Kara dvdpwrrovs eputriKa.,


ooa reivei Trpos 8ep.iv Kal evaefieiav
?

Ovrat TroXXrjV Kal p.eydXrjv, p,aXXov 8e rraaav


e^ei avXXrjfiSrjv p,ev rras "E/aajy, o Se
6

8vi>ap.iv
rrepl rayadd p.era aojtppoavvrjs Kal oiKaioavvrjs
drroreXovp,evos /cat Trap1 r)p,Zv Kal rrapd deoZs,
ovros rr)v p,eyiarr)v Swapuv e^et /cat rraaav r)fj,Zv
eiiSaifiovlav TrapaaKevd^et /cat dAAijAoty 8vva/j.e-
vovs 6p,iXeZv /cat rpLXovs etvai Kal rots Kpeirrocyiv
om. Stob. om. Stob.
1

irepl
I?

e&atfietav Stob. dc^Seta? MSS.


3

130
SYMPOSIUM
to men and animals and plants, and are guilty of no .

wrong. But when the wanton-spirited Love gains


the ascendant in the seasons of the year, great
destruction and wrong does he wreak. For at these
junctures are wont to arise pestilences and many
other varieties of disease in beasts and herbs ;
likewise hoar-frosts, hails, and mildews, which spring
from mutual encroachments and disturbances in
such love-connexions as are studied in relation to
the motions of the stars and the yearly seasons by
what we term astronomy. So further, all sacrifices
and ceremonies controlled by divination, namely,
all means of communion between gods and men,
are only concerned with either the preservation
or the cure of Love. For impiety is usually in eacn
case the result of refusing to gratify the orderly
Love or to honour and prefer him in all our affairs,
and of yielding to the other in questions of duty
towards one's parents whether alive or dead, and
also towards the gods. To divination is appointed the \
task of supervising and treating the health of these '
Loves ; wherefore that art, as knowing what human
love-affairs will lead to seemliness and pious
observance, is indeed a purveyor of friendship
betwixt gods and men.
" Thus Love, conceived as a
single whole, exerts "\
a wide, a strong, nay, in short, a complete power : [
but that which is consummated for a good purpose, \
temperately and justly, both here on earth and in \
heaven above, wields the mightiest power of all \
and provides us with a perfect bliss ; so that we
are able to consort with one another and have friend
ship with the gods who are above us. It may well

131
PLATO
E rjfjLuJv Oeols- pev ovv Kai iy<l> tov "EpoJTa
tocos
evaivcov iroXXd TrapaXeiTTO), ov p,evToi eKOJV ye.
dXX' el rt eeXnrov, adv epyov, cu 'Api0TO<f>aves,
avaTrXrjpcocrai- 77
el ncos dXXws ev vw e^eis eyKco-
p,iaL,ew tov deov, eyKU>plal,e, eireib'T] Kai rfjs Xvy-
yOS TTTTaVO(U.
'
189 'ExSe^a/xei'ov ovv ecf>7]
sinew tov ApioTocpdvr)
oti Kai pdX e-navoaTO, ov pevToi Ttpiv ye tov
TtTa.pp.6v TTpoaevexdfjvai avTrj, wore pe Oavpd^eiv
i to
Koapiov tov oojpaTOS emOvpei toiovtcov
ipocpcov Kai yapyaXiapcbv , olov Kai 6 mappos eoTim
rrdvv ydp evdvs eiravaaTO, eTreiSrj avTut tov TTTap-
pov Trpoo-qveyKa.
Kai tov 'Epvtpaxov, TQ 'yade, (ftdvai, 'ApiaTO-
<f>aves, opa tL Troieis- yeX<uTOTroiels peXXojv Xeyeiv,
B Kai <f>vXaKa pe tov Xoyov avayKa^eis yiyveadai
tov oeavrov, edv tl yeXoiov e'lTrrjS, i6v ooi ev
elprjvr) Xeyeiv.
'
Kai tov Apt,oTO</)dvr) yeXdaavTa evneiv Eu
Xeyeis, 'Epv^ipa^e, Kai poi eoTio dpprjTa to.
<L

elprjpeva. dXXd pr\ pe <f>vXaTTe, (Ls eyd) <f>o/3ovpai


nepi Tibv p,eXX6vTU)V prfi-f)aeoQai, ov tl prj yeXoia
etiroj, tovto pev yap dv KepSos elr] Kai ttjs ype-
Tepas povo-qs imxtbpiov, dXXd prj KaTayeXaoTa.
BaAtbv ye, <j>dvai, a> 'Apiaro^aves, otei eK<f>ev-
eoOai- dXXd TTpoaeye tov vovv Kai ovrco Xeye ojs
C Sa>o-a>v Xoyov laws pevToi, dv 80^77 poi, difrrjcrco oe.
Kai 'Epv^ipaxe, elireiv tov 'ApiaTO-
i!)

pT\v,
dXXj) ye ttt) iv vu> e\o) Xeyeiv, av re
fj

<f>dv7],
t)

132
SYMPOSIUM
be that with the best will in the world I have
omitted many points in the praise I owe to Love ;
but any gaps which I may have left it is your
business, Aristophanes, to fill : or if you intend some
different manner of glorifying the god, let us hear
your eulogy, for you have stopped your hiccough
now."
Then, as my friend related, Aristophanes took up
"
the word and said : Yes, it has stopped, though
not until it was treated with a course of sneezing,
such as leaves me wondering that the orderly principle
of the body should call for the noises and titillations
involved in sneezing ; you see, it stopped the very
moment I applied the sneeze to it."
"
My good Aristophanes," replied Eryximachus,
take heed what you are about. Here are you
buffooning before ever you begin, and compelling
me to be on the watch for the first absurdity in your
speech, when you might deliver it in peace."
At this Aristophanes laughed, and " Quite right,
" I
Eryximachus," he said ; unsay all that I have
said. Do not keep a watch on me ; for as to what is
going to be said, my fear is not so much of saying
something absurd since that would be all to the
good and native to my Muse as something
utterly ridiculous."
"
You think you can just let fly, Aristophanes,
and get off unscathed ! Have a good care to
speak only what you can defend ; though perhaps I
may be pleased to let you off altogether."

The Speech of Aristophanes


" It
is indeed my intention, Eryximachus," said
"
Aristophanes, to speak in somewhat different
133
PLATO

/cat Uavoavlas elrrerrfv. efiol yap SoKovaiv ol


avdpioTTOi rravraTraat. rr)v rov epojros ovvap.iv ovk
fjadfjadcu, errel ala6avop.evoi ye fieyiar av avrov
tepa KaraoKevaoai fitofiovs, Kal Ovaias av
/cat
7T0ieiv fj.eyi.aras, oi>x coanep vvv rovrcov ovokv yt-
yverai rrepl avrov, oeov rrdvrcov fj.dXi.ara ylyveadau.
D eari yap 6ea>v cfriXavOpcoTroraros, emKovpos re u>v
ru>v dvdpcoTratv /cat larpds rovrajv, wv ladevrcov

fj.eyi.ar7] i5Sat/xovta av rip dvOpcoTreia) yevei eirj.


eyco ovv rreipdoofiai vp.lv elarjyrjaaaOai, rr)v 8vva-
p.iv avrov, ifieis Se rcov dXXa>v StSdWaAot eaeoQe.
Set Be rrpcorov ifids fiadelv rr)v dvdpiomvrjv cf>vaiv
to,
/cat rraOrffiara avrrfs. r) ydp irdXat r)fiaiv
(f>vais ovx avrrj rjv, ffnep vvv, aAA' dAAot'a. rrpGi-
rov fxev ydp rpla rd yevrj rd rwv dvOpcbrrajv,
r)v

ovx toarrep vvv Svo, dppev /cat drjXv, dXXd Kal rpi-
E

rov Trpoafjv koivov ov dp.cj>orepa>v rovrojv, oS vvv


ovofia Xoirrov, avrd 8e r)cj)dvLaraf avSpoywov ydp
rore fiev Kal etSos /cat ovofia
et;
r)v

ev ap.<f>oreptov
Kouvov rov re dppevos /cat 8rjXeos, vvv ovk eariv
8

aAA' oveiSei ovofia Keifievov.


ev eireira SXov rfv
tj

eKaarov rod avdpdmov rd ethos arpoyyvXov, vcorov


Kal rrXevpds kvkXoj exov, x^pas Se rerrapas efj^e,
/cat CT/ceArj to. tcra rat? xePah Kai Trp6aa>Tra Sri err'
8'

190 avxevi KVKXorepel, Sfxoia rravrrf Ke<f>aXr)v en


dfi<f>orepois rots Trpoawirois evavrlois Kt,fj,evois
fxiav, /cat cora rerrapa, /cat atSota hvo, /cat rcIAAa
ndvra and rovrwv dv rt,s elKaaecev. erropevero
cos
Se /cat dpBdv coarrep vvv, onorepioae fiovXrfdelrf
Kal oTTore raxy opp/qaeie detv, coanep ol Kvfiiara>v

134
SYMPOSIUM
strain from you and Pausanias. For in my opinion >

humanity has entirely failed to perceive the power of


Love : if men did perceive it, they would have provided
him with splendid temples and altars, and would
splendidly honour him with sacrifice ; whereas we
see none of these things done for him, though they
are especially his due. He of all gods is most friendly
to men ; he succours mankind and heals those ills
whose cure must be the highest happiness of the
human race. Hence I shall try and introduce you
to his power, that you may transmit this teaching
to the world at large. You must begin your lesson
with the nature of man and its development. For
our original nature was by no means the same as it
is now. In the first place, there were three kind:
of human beings, not merely the two sexes, male am
female, as at present : there was a third kind a;
well, which had equal shares of the other two, am
whose name survives though the thing itself has
' '
vanished. For man-woman 1 was then a unity
in form no less than name, composed of both sexes
and sharing equally in male and female ; whereas
now it has come to be merely a name of reproach
Secondly, the form of each person was round all1
over, with back and sides encompassing it every
way ; each had four arms, and legs to match these
and two faces perfectly alike on a cylindrical neck.
There was one head to the two faces, which looked
opposite ways ; there were four ears, two privy mem
bers, and all the other parts, as may be imagined, in
proportion. The creature walked upright as now,
in either direction as it pleased ; and whenever it
started running fast, it went like our acrobats,
i.e.
" " ; Lucret. v. 837 foil.
1
hermaphrodite cf.
135
PLATO

res /cat eis 6p06v ra cr/ce'Ar/ Trepuf>ep6p.evoi Kvfii-


oriooi kvkXoj, okto) rore ovai tols fieAeoiv drrepei-
B 86p,vot Ta)(y i(/>epovro kvkXoj. Se 8x ravra

rjv
rpta Ta yevrj /cat roiavra, oti to tov

r^v
p,ev dppev
rjXiov tt)v dpxr)v Kyovov, to Se 8ijXv ttjs yr)s, to
Se dp,(f>oTpa>v
/xeTe^oc ttjs aeXr/vr/s, oti koX

r)
creXrjvq dp,(j>oTpcov p,Texef TTepi<f>epfj Se St) rjv
/cat aura /cat iropeia avTCov Sta to tois yovevaiv
rj

o/xota etvat. r)v ovv ttjv lo~xyv Setva.


tt)v /cat
pcopvrpi, /cat to. <f>povtjp,a.Ta p,eydXa etxov, eirexel-
pr)oav Se toZs deols, /cat Ae'yet "Op.rjpos trepl

6
E^taArou re /cat "D.tov, irepl e/cetWiv Xeyerai, to
C

eis tov ovpavov dvdfiaaw eVt^etpeti' Troieiv, cos


emdrjaopLevcov tols Oeois.
'0 odv Zevs /cat ol dXXoi 6eol iplovXevovTO

,
Tt XPV O-VTOVS TTOITJOOU, /Cat TJTTOpOVV OVT ydp
O

ottojs a7ro/CTtvatev eiftov /cat ojcnrep tovs yiyavTas


to yevos at
KepavvwaavTes d<f>avicratv Tifial yap
avTots /cat tepci ra. Ttapd tujv dvBpojTrojv r)<f>avl^eTO
ov6' ottojs Zevs
Br)

ia>ev doeXyaiveiv /.tdyt?


6
.

iworjoas Aeyet oti Ao/cco p.oi, e<f>rj, %& p.r)xavrjv,


cos oa> elev re dvOpcorroi /cat navoaivTO ttjs a/coAa-

mas daOevecrrepoi yevop,evoi. vvv p,ev yap ainovs,


D

e(f>rj, Stare/xtD St'^a SKaoTOV, /cat dp,a p.ev dadeve-


crTepoi eaovTai, ct/ia Se xpT/criyiiaiTepoi rjp.lv Sta. to
rrXelovs tov dpidp.6v yeyovevaf /cat paStowrat
6p8ol inl Svolv OKeXoXv edv en SoKcoatv dcreX-
8'

yaivew /cat /xr) edeXcuoiv rjovx^av dyeiv, ttoXiv aw,


136
SYMPOSIUM

whirling over and over with legs stuck out straight ;


only then they had eight limbs to support and speed
them swiftly round and round. The number and
features of these three sexes were owing to the
fact that the male was originally the offspring of
the sun, and the female of the earth ; while that
which partook of both sexes was born of the moon,
for the moon also partakes of both.1 They were
globular in their shape as in their progress, since they
took after their parents . Now, they were of surprising
strength and vigour, and so lofty in their notions
that they even conspired against the gods ; and the
same story is told of them as Homer relates of
Ephialtes and Otus,2 that scheming to assault the
gods in fight they essayed to mount high heaven. -*
"
Thereat Zeus and the other gods debated what
they should do, and were perplexed : for they felt
they could not slay them like the Giants, whom
they had abolished root and branch with strokes
of thunder it would be only abolishing the honours
and observances they had from men ; nor yet could
they endure such sinful rioting. Then Zeus, putting
all his wits together, spake at length and said :
'
Methinks I can contrive that men, without ceasing"*
to exist, shall give over their iniquity through a
lessening of their strength. I propose now to slice , -^
every one of them in two, so that while making^ Jp
them weaker we shall find them more useful by I sy
reason of their multiplication ; and they shall walk t
erect upon two legs. If they continue turbulent y.
and do not choose to keep quiet, I will do it again,'

1
The double sex of the moon is mentioned in an Orphic
hymn (ix. 4): cf. Macrob. iii. 8.
2
Homer, Od. xi. 305 foil. ; II. v. 385 foil.
137
PLATO
* ey * r >

gr:
3/ > e \ A.
8t
&bn, Teuto 6ixa, djat &# &vs Topegovral
!.

|
*

/
Aovs dokoWiovtes. Tabta eitdov reuve rolls dvdp'.

3.
e/

f
T
Tovs Bixa, diotep

|
oi
ruvovres *kal u.

A.

T
Tapixejew, diotep

/
oi
Movres did rais 6p1&

>
c/

6w

v
/

/
T/
5

*
Tuou, Tw 'AtAAo

Te
6vruva kAeve
E

Tpg.

T
otov ueTao Tpbew kai
a: #
rob avyvos #47
Tps Thy Touffy, iya.65%uevos
Tv
roopadrepos ein dvdpotos, kai TAAa lg'

|
T d
TpGotov werorpeje,
S

Te
&k\evev.

a
8pua ti Tv yagrip:

T
ovvAkov Tavtax6ev

T
vv kaRovjuvny, diotep ovataota BaAAdvrul,
otua Trovov, dTel, kata uonv Tijv yaotpa,
&v

1916 8: Tov duffalov KaNobot. kai Ts uv dM /


vras Ts ToMAds e Mauve kai r orn 5:
6pov, #xov Totobrov pyavov otov okvrot"
TV

of
Trept Tv kantoa Aeavovres 7ds Tw orv'.
katAite, Ts Trept airly
6

fivras: 6Aiyas

T.
Toi
yagrpa kal Tv duffax6v, uvmuetov elva.

TV
atoff td.6ovs. tti) offv $vous 6ixa &Tuff.
j

jutov
T

to

Toffov kaoTov airob ovviet,

"
TeptflAAovres Ts* xeipas kal * ovuTAekuevo
"
l

tle
&
B Aij}\ots, tuffvuobvres ovud,5val, drvmakov
Aluob kai Ts AAms *dpyias
T

Bud unv
5

xopis kal 67re


T.

dAAAdov Towev. drofl)


id:
-
c.

Tw

dM
r
/

'v

Tv juiaea 8 Aevd.6et
3
T
.
.

v,

Aewb6v Aewb6ein,
And
d
#

&#ret kal ovvet\keto, eire yuvaiks ris


vrxot juiget,
5)

vv yvyatka kaAouev,
6:
6

Stei
dvps: kal otra's dTAAvvro. Aeffgas
Wic
3

Zeus d?\Amy unXavny Toperat, kal ueratiff" Ofth


eis
T

arw albota Tp06ev: Tdos yp


" o:

Tara kts exov, Kai yvvov kal &rikrov


'th

138
SYMPOSIUM

said he ; I will slice


every person in two, and then
they must go their ways on one leg, hopping.
So saying, he sliced each human being in two, just
as they slice sorb-apples to make a dry preserve,
or eggs with hairs; and at the cleaving of each

its
he bade Apollo turn

to
face and half-neck the

be
section side, order that every one might
in

made
more orderly by the sight the knife's work upon
him; this done, the god was of
heal them up. Then
Apollo turned their faces about, and pulled their to

skin together from the edges over what now

is
called the belly, just like purses which you draw

up
string; the little opening

he
close with tied
a

belly, making
so
of

the middle the what we know


of as in

he

the navel. For the rest, smoothed away most


the puckers and figured out the breast with some
smoothing
in
as

such instrument shoemakers use


the last; though
he
on
of

the wrinkles leather left


there few which we have just about the belly and
a

early
us

navel,
of
to

remind our fall. Now when


two, each half
in
in

our first form had been cut


for
its

longing again; and


to

fellow would come


it

then would they fling their arms about each other


mutual embraces yearn be grafted together,
to
in

and
till they began perish hunger and general
of
to

indolence, through refusing do anything apart.


to

And whenever on the death of one half the other


was left alone, went searching and embracing
to
it

on

might happen
of

see that half the whole woman


it
if

woman, perchance the half


or

which now we call


In a

this plight they were perishing


of

the whole man.


away, when Zeus his pity provided
in

fresh device.
a

privy parts
to

He moved their the frontfor until


all

on

then they had these, like else, the outside, and


139
PLATO

eis
els
yv, otep Trryes' uet.

of
dAAAovs dAA
ov oro (Taijt airveis

T
te
&6mk "pgda

>
kai Bud Towtov Tijv yveauv

v
dAA#Aous toinde,
C

iva
Tve veka,

v
vd tob dippevos t) Met,

&
T

ovut)\oki ua uv divip yuvaiki vriyol,

et
T
yevvev kai yiywotto yvos, dua

ip
kal

ei

!
pmy dppew, TAmauov yojv yiywoto Tis ovovoi's

kal T. kai
kai 6tatavowto kai ti pya Tptowto

8%
to AAov 8tov tueMoivro. ort

k
offv
gov pos ubvros Tots dwptols
D

dAA#Adov

Ts doxolas, $vaeos ovvayaoye's kal 7%ep'

|
k

Tovijaav Tiv fow

T.
8volv kal idoraoffat
v

a
dv6portivny.

li
"Ekaotos otiv dv6pdinov air
obv judov

1"
8oNow, dTe TeTumuvos diotep hittal, 5
at


6)

airo5 kaoros ovuoMo',


T

8vo. ntet del

|| . :
oot uv ov Tw divpv rob koivob Tuud elow:
8,

y r
Tte dvpyvyov kaAetro, bu)\oyvatks

id:
6

elgi kal ToMAoi Tv Plotkw


of

Towrov too
a

vous yeyvao, kal gat yuvaikes biXavpol

\,
E

T
|'d
k

kai uo. Yet Totat, Tovtov toff yewovs yiyvovral


Tw yvyatkw yovaks Tuju elow, '
B

oat
"
#!e

Tvv arat Tos dvpdov tv votiv Tpooxova",


eli

AAd uAAov Tes Ts yvyatras Terpaupval


:
-
ralpiotpat
k

Tovtov tob yvovs yiyvor


at

kal
#
Buff.

ra. 6Got
T

ppevos Tuud elot,


B

ppewa
I

kovo, kal Taes dow, &re reud,"


du

Ta's uv
Y:

vra toff pperos, $oodo' Tolls divpas kal


::
To

Temaeyuvot
192 poval avykarakellevo. Kat ovu
air: Bury.
W.
<!
*

140
SYMPOSIUM
*

on
did their begetting and bringing forth not each
*/
: other but on the earth, like the crickets. These

be
the front,
he

parts

to
now shifted used for

to
6


l.
propagating
on
each otherin the female member

' the male;


by

of

in
so
that their embrace

on if
means
(d,
"

man should happen woman there


" ments
a

a
be

might conception and continuation

of
their
*

kind; and also, they might


|

male met with male


if

relief, and
of

satiety

so
have their union and

a
0|7| might
turn their hands their labours and their
to

ordinary life. Thus anciently


y

mutual
to

interest

is
&

love ingrained mankind, reassembling our early


in

#7.

# endeavouring
to

in
estate and combine two one
# and heal the human sore.
'A
us, then, tally" man,
of

Each but of
is

since every one shows like a

of
flat-fish the traces
a

having been sliced two; and each ever searching


in

is

for the tally that will him. All the men who
fit

that composite sex that


of

at

are sections first was


called man woman are woman courters; our
-

adulterers are mostly descended from that sex,

''.
whence likewise are derived our man-courting
#

women and adulteresses. All the women who


great fancy for men:
no
of

sections the woman have


they are inclined rather women, and
of
to

this stock
are the she-minions. Men who are sections of the
>

male pursue the masculine, and long


beas
so

their
boyhood lasts they show themselves
to

slices
by

making friends with men and delight


of

the male
ing be clasped
to

lie with them and


in

men's
to
*

tally, notched stick matching another,


or

the
A

is
(*) \,

English equivalent
of

nearest for wagoNow, which was half


a
asa

broken die given and kept friendship; see


of

token
to

a
a

below, 193A (Atara).


141
PLATO
dvpdow, kai elow offroi BAttorov Tw Talboy
scal uetpaktav, dire dvpettatov vres #ge.
qiaoi B 6 Tuves avtov's dvadoxvvtovs elval, lev.
uevot ov yp it
dvavoxvvrias Toro 8pgly,
dAA 5t 6ppovs kai dvpetas kal dippevotias, T.
uovov attois data%uevo. puya, 8, Tekuffplo" |
yp TeXeo6vres

els
scal uvov, droflavovow

ri
8

|
oi
TroMutuk divpes towobrov. Tetv dvpur
6gu, Tatepaotobou ka? Tps yduous kal Tato.
B

Toogxovov Tw, votiv fivoet, dAAd ind


ot:

Toutas
rob vuov dvaykovta dAA apket airo's

dato: de

l" l'
dAA#Acov katafiv dyduous. Tvros uv offv


ot}ros Tatepaoffs
Te

Kal hu)\epaarns yiyveral,

ovyyevs dataguevos. rav puv ov kal air

j.
T

&ceive vrxm abrov juice kai Tatepaark

d
kai d'AAos Ts, Tte kal 6avuaord kTAffrtovra Jh.
C

kai oikeiTnT. kai port, ox 6Aovr,


Te

dit}\ig
&tos eitely, xopieoffat dAA#Aov o8 outp:
dis

kal

||
xpvov, BareNobvres her dAA#Aoy
of

i.
lov offroi elow, xotev eirety
av

rifle:
of

oi'8'
6

ovral offlot tap dAA#Aov yiyveoffat. oilfie"


Tw dipolotov avior O
&v

yp 86&ete Tour elva.


* 0.
dis

ota, dpa Towrov veka repos roq) yap


ovvov oitos
tri PleydAms arovns. dAA dMo
T'

BovMouum kaTpov livX gotiv, 8%. 8%


of
6

era,
i

Tat eitely, awa pare era Kal


a:
6
D

Terau. Kai Tos air


v

t) karaketu0: ''}}
at
et

td.

"Hohaiotos, xov
{{

grwards {|0,
pyava, pouro.
d

80%eoffe, dwpotov, uiv trap' dAAo


800d
6

&off
6

Stob.: objtrecc.
Ry i

owevi 006v Mss.


*{ll
:

142
#'
SYMPOSIUM
*

# * embraces; these are the finest boys and striplings, .

is * for they have the most manly nature. Some say


they are shameless creatures, but falsely for their
#1.
#

:
i)

-
daring,

to

to
behaviour due not shamelessness but
is

"
::

manliness, and virility, since they are quick


70

to
of
welcome their like. Sure evidence this the

is
on

T' fact that reaching maturity these alone prove

So
be
public career when they come
to

men.
to in
*

a
*

no
## man's estate they are boy-lovers, and have
2 wiving and getting children, but
in

natural interest
""'*

'... are quite Contented IvTogether Unwedded all


of to

their days. any rate born


at
this sort
A

man
is

willing
be

boys man,
of

of
or

lover the mate


to

a
W6" eagerly greeting his own kind. Well, when one

of
be
he

boy-lover any
of
or

themwhether lover
&

on a

d' other sort--happens his own particular half, the


them are wondrously thrilled with affection and
of
#

two
#
be

intimacy and love, and are hardly


to

induced
leave each other's side for single moment.
to

These are they who continue together throughout


0"#*
s

life, though they could not even say what they


one another. No one could imagine this
of

would have
be

the mere amorous connexion,


or

that such
to

y? alone could be the reason why each rejoices


in

the
other's company with eager zest: obviously
so
#y

a
...

wishing for something else that


of

is

the soul each


cannot express, only divining and darkly hinting
it
#

'what wishes. Suppose that, they lay together,


as
it
*"

Hephaestus should come and stand over them, and


? it,

showing his implements" should ask: What


is

good mortals, that you would have


of
70%

one another
''
i.e. his anvil (Od. viii. 274), bellows, tongs, and hammer
*

(Il. xviii. 372 foll., 474 foll.).


4:3
-

|
PLATO
|
* *

>

/
*

5
et *
dropobvtas avroils tdAw
~.
yevobat; kai

*
I
polT0
* * * a *

A.
>
ye

th
*
Ap

5
tobe tuffvuette, t) avr yevodal

in

th
e/

W
w
/
5
/

|| || ||
pAvata AA#Aois, diate kal vkta kal ju"
E p") droMetteobal dAA#Acov;

5
yp Towtov

ni
el
* * * *

|
5
jus ovvtiat kal

:
6vuette, 6Aao ovudhvangal els"
ey a2 3/ ep er

3
*

*
*
avr, coote ov
5

v
Ult
Ovtas eva yeyovval kai os
8

G"
T
* e/ 3/ * * |$0
Zire, vta, kowh dubotpovs 'fiv,

|
'" Kl|
dis &va
*

di
*

6
c/

w
/
2

>

[f
&retv droffdvmte,
6

/ by
at
"Abov

8
* ket
* * duri
elva kouvi Tevete 6pte Toffo'''',

ei
&va d'AA'
* a a. *\ a
w

Will
kai gapket juv

w
5

*
*

du
&pre

0.
Towrov Txnte Tair ||r,
o:23'
*/ c/

els
rt oft

!'
&v

|
i.
as

dkovo topwev apwmffein


*

ll.
w
/

"
du

haven Bov}\duevos, dAA dTexvs olor


Tu

&AAo
*
A.

3.
-

-

v

TAat dpa teffijuel, list,

t Gw
dknkoval Tobro
6

* *
w

k
eX6v kai ovvrake's T60 pouvgo 8voiy Whe

&

' t
yevoffat.
pe,
3rt

do ori T at

T
ovTo yop
To)
atto", doxala #8
"I'
or
To

* * apxata *
n
e/
3.
v

0%
airn kal juev
jv

%uv Aot to 6Aov


kai Tp Toil!
*/ 3/
w

!
193 &riffvuig
#Tru6vutkal vd.
6td.&et pos voua. "I'me }
i

s
!
dotep Ayo, juev. vvvi

Ou
88

Bud Thy doud"


&v

* *
.
*TCdi.
/

too 6eo5, kadtep 'Apk


"I'
8.9kio 6muev T *
:
|
5
/

*
&

5T Aakeapovicov.
* #68os offv &otiv, |
w

&
a'.
w

kautot duev Tps Tovs 6eows, 6tos kal "go


u

*/
A.

#ate00 hth
w

8taoxtoffmoueffa, kal Tepituev xovres dioT"


6

"I
e

*
w

karaypav kretvnouvo,
or

*
ev

rats Aa's
*
".
e/
/

(907%
Templouvot Ts divas, yeyovTes 9-all"
kat
"T"'s.
3.

XpV
e

Alomat. dAAd Towrov veka Tavr dvpa


*
ef

''.
A.

|
ra.

TapakeMeteoffat evoe'8eiv Tepi 6eos, "...'


t a
j."
B uv khyouev, Tv B Txouev, "Ep"
dis
&

144
SYMPOSIUM

W. that in their perplexity he asked


and suppose
them again: Do you desire to be joined in the
* closest possible union, so that you shall not be
1 * divided by night or by day ? If that is your craving,
# I
am ready to fuse and weld you together in a
# single piece, that from being two you may be made
t one; that so long as you live, the pair of you, being
" as one, may share a single life; and that when you
# die you may also in Hades yonder be one instead

of two, having shared a single death. Bethink


yourselves your heart's desire, and you
...

this
if

if
is
be

will quite contented with this lot. No one on


hearing this, we are sure, would demur

or
to
it
# 15 # *

be

would found wishing for anything else: each


allhe

would unreservedly deem that had been offered

*:
he

just what was yearning for the time, namely,


#.
joined and fused with his beloved that the
be
so
to
*

two might
be

The cause
made one.
this, that our original form Ty
of

all
is
it

described, #
a'

as

was have and we were entire and the


I

craving and pursuit that entirety /*


of

called Love.
by is

Formerly, said, one; but now


as

have we were
'' ** " -:

I
for

God,
all

dispersed
as

our sins we are the


Arcadians were by the Lacedaemonians"; and we
be

may well afraid that we are disorderly towards


if

be

Heaven we may once more cloven asunder and


&

go

those outline-carvings
of

may the shape


in

about
the tombs, with our noses sawn down the middle,
on

"and may thus become like tokens split dice.


of
of all

#Wherefore we ought exhort our neighbours


to

pious observance the gods, order that we


in
to
a
,

escape harm and attain


to

may bliss under the


Probably referring
of

the dispersal Mantinea into


to
*
#

villages (Xenophon, Hell. foll.).


in

2.

385 B.C.
v.

vol. L 14.5
"

v.
PLATO
e w w * * w o r -
iyeudov kai otpatmyds. unbels vavria Tpat
A. 5 * * *
Tro. * Tpattel vavria,
/8' *
6atus 6eois dTex86veral
a ?
qbot yp Yevousyo taxMayvres T fle &A.
* * o Kat / * *

Kal t 70%
evpioogev Te Kai vtevue6a Tos Tatwko's
/* ev * * *
huetpous autw, Tv vv dAiyou *towoffat.


dis putA.

w
/
e

Sn

/
"Epvtuaxos kaouq,8v Tv Myol,
A
uot 5Tod

A
W

!
5

?d" yi \
Ilavaaviav kai Ayddova Ayo toos uv
*
C

* -
A.

A.

3
Kai oitou Tovtov Tvyxdvovow vtes kai elaiv

||
|
3/ -
w

/
dTepot Tiv fow dippeves Ayo

#Kaff
6
yaye
* * ov
w

w
-
dTvtov Kal divpv Kat yvyatkov, 6T orals
5

i,
in
j
* 3/
Tw

huv eiatuov yevotto,


yvos creMgaud

et
* * * *
w

Tv pota kal Tv Tatwkw Tv airo5 &kaoTo

't
.

a -
3.

5
v

f
eis

/
*
/

el 5
Tiju dipxalav Toi";
* divov.

to 3
Txot * date}\6v
*
70'
>

th
/
dpuatov, dvaykalov kai Tv vv Tapvrov
5/ * * DOW
/

Tov *yyvrd eival Touro earl Tatk

6
Tao dowo* Tov

that
* *

t
v

rvXev kata voiju avr webvkrov.

of
D

ri
*

6
*
"Epo'.

0
0
w

airtov 6ew *wavobytes Bukaios


v

* 5uvotuev

...
*
e-

"liff
&
*

,
T Tapvt. jus TMetaza dvivnow
Te
6s
v

eis
*

'g
w


eis
/

-
olketov dyov, Kai
T

tetra ATas ueylar'


I"
e-

*
'...'.
f

/
*

Trapxetat, judov Tapexogvov


* 7ps fleo's

''
/

eis
6

S
8etav, kataotijo jus Tijv doxalav fow
as

*
" l:
lagduevos uakaptovs kai ejaiuovas Totmoat.
* t
h

2/
'ph
r

E
*

Oros, pm, Epv&iwaxe, us A


us Ayos
3
d5

"T
d5

*
'.
*

Tept "Eporos,
'
otep
',

dAAotos ads.
d

a.
kaiw
w

kopobjoys airw,
u)

eBeijnv Gov, iva


| *

'ake
Aourov drovoogev kaoros pet, uAAoy
Ti

'#'
3:

of

krepos 'Aydflow yp kal Xokprms Aoto.


E

'AAAd Tetoouai ool, n Q. hval Tv 'E'


Ji
Kal

tli
p.
w

A jaos opin.
#oof?
,
"

playov kat yap plot Aoyos


o5

ovv8m Xokpret Ay6vl Be"


u

Te

ka:
146
SYMPOSIUM

gallant leadership of Love. Let none in act oppose


himand it is opposing him to incur the hate of
Heaven: if
we make friends with the god and are
reconciled, we shall have the fortune that falls to
few in our day, of discovering our proper favourites.
And let not Eryximachus interrupt my speech with a
comic mock, and say I
refer to Pausanias and
| Agathon; it may be they do belong to the fortunate
few, and are both of them males by nature; what
mean isand this applies
to
the whole world

o
...

men and womenthat the way bring happiness itsto


give our love
to

true fulfilment:
to let to

our race
is

every one find his own favourite, and

so
revert

~
be

primal thing all,

of
to If

his estate. this the best


* *

all

the nearest approach acts open

us
among

to
it

now must accordingly be the best choose; and


to
is,

find favourite whose nature exactly


to

that
is
a

our mind. Love the god who brings this


to

is
he

about; fully deserves our hymns. For not only


he

present bestow the priceless boon


of
in

the does
he

bringing our very own, but also supplies


to
us

this excellent hope for the future, that we will


if
*

duty
he

supply the gods with reverent will restore


##

help
us

our ancient life and heal and into the


us
to

happiness
of

the blest.
"...

There, Eryximachus, Love,


on

my discourse
is
#

As

different sort from yours. besought you,


of
a

I
it,
no

sport
in of

to

make comic for we want hear what


say their turnI rather mean
'...

the others will


other two, since only Agathon and Socrates are
'
.

left.
*

Well, will obey you, said Eryximachus, for


I
,

enjoyed your speech. Had not reason


to in

fact
I

Agathon
in

prowess
of

know the Socrates and


147
PLATO

ovai irepi to epcoTiKa, ttovv av e<f>of}ovp.r)v pvr)

wnopy\au>ai Xoytov Sia to 7roAAa Kal TravroZwrra.


elpijodai' vvv Se op,cos dappco.
Tov ovv liWKpdrt] elirelv KaAco? yap avros
194 rjycoviaai, cu 'Epvi;lp,axe- ei Se yevow ov vvv iytb
elp.i, p,dXXov Se urtos ofi iiaopLCu, eWiSav Kal 'Aya-
Ocov eiTrr], ev /cai p,aX av <f>of$oZo Kal iv navrl eirjs
wcnrep eyd) vvv.
Qapp-aTTew fiovXei pie, u> HwKpares, elTreiv tov
'AydOcova, Iva dopv^r/dco 8t,d to o'leadai to deaTpov
TrpoaSoKLav p.eydXrjv e\eiv cos ev epovvTos ep,ov.
'JLmXrjop.cov pievTav etrjv, co 'Ayddcov, eliretv
B tov TiCOKpaTT], el I8cbv ttjv orjv dvopelav Kal p,eya-
Xocjjpoovvrjv dvafialvovTOS em tov OKplfiavTa pieTa.
tcov VTTOKpiTwv, Kal fiXet/javTOS ivavTia tooovtco
deaTpcp, p,eXXovTOS em8eieadai oavTov Xoyovs,
Kal oi3S' ottcolttiovv eK-nXayivTOS , vvv olrfdeirqv
oe dopvPydrjoeodai, eVe/ca. rjp,cdv oXiycov dvdpcoTrcov.
Tt Se, co Tid)KpaTs; tov 'Ayddcova <f>dvai, ov
Swot; p.e ovtco deaTpov p.eoTov i]yfj, toaTe Kal
dyvoelv, oti vovv e^ovTi oXlyot, ep.<f>poves ttoXXcov

d<j>povcov <f>ofiepcoTepoi ;
Ov KaXws Troioi-qv, cpdvai tov TicoKpaT-q,
p.evTa.v
C a> 'Ayddcov, Ttepl gov ti eya> dypoiKov 8odcov
dXX' ev ol8a, oti el now eVrtr^oi? ovs r/yolo 00-
cboiis, paXXov av avrcov <f>povTl^ois f\ tcov ttoXXcov
dXXd pvt] ovx outoi ij/xely cop.ev r)p.els p.ev yap

148
SYMPOSIUM
love-matters, I should have great fears of their
being at a loss for eloquence after we have heard it
in such copious variety : but you see, my confidence
is unshaken."
"
Whereon Socrates remarked : Your own per
formance, Eryximachus, made a fine hit : but if you
could be where I am now or rather, I should say,
where I shall be when Agathon has spoken you
would be fitly and sorely afraid, and would be as
hard put to it as I am."
"
You want to throw a spell over me, Socrates,"
"
said Agathon, so that I may be flustered with the
consciousness of the high expectations the audience
has formed of my discourse."
"
Nay, Agathon, how forgetful I should be,"
"
replied Socrates, if after noticing your high and
manly spirit as you stepped upon the platform
with your troupe how you sent a straight glance
at that vast assembly to show that you meant to
do yourself credit with your production, and how
you were not dismayed in the slightest if I should
now suppose you could be flustered on account of a
few fellows like us."
"Why, Socrates," said Agathon, "I hope you |
do not always fancy me so puffed up with the play
house as to forget that an intelligent speaker is
more alarmed at a few men of wit than at a host
of fools."
" No,
Agathon, it would be wrong of me indeed,"
"
said Socrates, to associate you with any such
clownish notion : I am quite sure that on finding
yourself with a few persons whom you considered
clever you would make more account of them than
of the multitude. Yet we, perhaps, are the latter ;
149
PLATO
* w * 6. * w ey * *
Xaipeiv, kal rob duoov ye T duotov biolov yiyve
ev */ 2 / * 5 > ey a.

bapwev dvvatov elva, dAA 6pacos Te okey


C u6a, un jus atratifam T vv Aeyduevov.
/ /
d a.
N
a. e/ e
latpurc, haplev, &veka Tijs vyweias hi}\ov.
*. * x/

Okobu kai i vyiela biXov; IIdvv ye. Ei d.


$thov, &veka Tov. Nai. Dixov ye ruvos 6
* /

Tiff
eitep dicoMov6 foet Tpoffew duoAoyig. IIdi
* a. * ep

*/
*

bi /

a
ye. Okov kai kelvo \ov otal vk
$4Mov; Nai. 'Ap ov offic dvdykm dwette
* ep

A.
w

5
*

jus oros ivtas,


5
e

/
ddukoffat ti Tuva dpxiji

5
n
d'AAo biXov, dAA #et

n
ovkr tavoto
et
#

* * e/ * ey
>

rdw
*
5

or Tpa) Tov biXov,

of
excelvo veka kal #AA
dAM

haplev tvra elva; 'Avdykm. Tobro

6.
biXa
D

ea * 3f */
3.

ev
w

jus
e

/
*

T
earav Aya), pur) dAa Tavra eitope,

&
6

keivov veka (biwa elvau, digtep etcoMa drra vta


** * a ca *
3.

dis
Tptov,
5
88

#A

e
T*

aToti, &#atar,

6
ketvo dAmfls
#

6
a.

e/
p
w

*
e

1.
eart biXov. vvoijoopwev yap obtool. 6tav' Tis

Tt
* A-, *
otvtep viote Tatip viv duri

*
to

Tept MAob touffraw,


* * *
/

Tvtov Tv GAAov xpmud Tow Tpotluff, rovo0 8)


d

* *
*

ros veka to Tv viv Tepi Tavrs hyetotal dpa


* * *
/
a
&v

Trept to\Aot towotto; alofl


et

kal &AAo
T.

otov
E

airv kvetov Tetokra,


to

vouro dpa wept Mob


* * *
w

oivov, eitep jyotro


dw

Tovoir toto Tv viov


* * *
uv; &#m.
/

w
Ti

5
*

5
A

Ta

odioeuv; Okov kai dyyetov,


* * s
*

>

/
*

*
2
e

"Ap ov Tte

oivos vein; IIvv ye.


&v

(5
6

*
*

o6v tepi TAetovos Toweitau, kAuka kepauav


* *
w
y

Tv viv Tv airob, o6 Tpets koti Mas oivov tw


:

Stephanus:
&v

3rav Mss.
6
*

58
!
LYSIS

ovyye" and becomes a friend to the like,


thus the like

is,
which we said was impossible. There however,
#e are:

:
further point which we must examine,

if
we are
a

ugo,
not

find our present argument mere deception.


to

a
is we

of
M. Medicine, say, friend for the sake health.is
El # Yes. Then health friend also: Certainly. And a a
friend, something.

of
for the sake so
it
is
is
if
it

:
Tuy05. #
And that something friend,

to
if
Yes,

is
it
is
II:
a
Q,
our previous agreement. Quite so.
to

t conform
&
ral

its
part also,
on
Then will that something be,

a
friend for the sake of friend Yes. Now are
a

on
weary ourselves with going
it'
We

in
to

10.
not bound
way,
this unless we can arrive some first at
#

#d

on
keep leading
us
principle which will not from
ill

another, but will reach


r

the
to

One friend
Too One original friend, for whose sake all the other
i.

So
be

be
to

ein' things can said friends We must.


you see what am afraid ofthat all the other
tra

I
#

of
as

things, which we cited friends for the sake


sil:
be

that one thing, may deceiving many


us

like
so

t;"
it,

be

while that original thing may


# y'

of

phantoms the
veritable friend. For suppose we view the matter
*

highly thing,
as
in

Toli, thus: when man values the


a

father who prizes his son above


of
}

common case
a
a

his

man, for the sake


of
#

possessions, will such


all

al: placing his son before everything, value anything


|

on

Tolk else highly For instance,


at

the same time


:
he

learning that had drunk some hemlock, would


jy

he

value wine highly believed would save


of if
his he

it

yy
he

- son's life Why, course, said. And the


:
!
* 10%

Certainly.
iy

vessel too which contained the wine


:
he

no

value,
at
in

1ay? Now does make distinction that


of

moment, between cup earthenware and his


t

a
J
%

pints
of

son,
or

own between three wine and his


*

59
PLATO
e a * *~ * s/ - e a' v 3
viv; (38 Taos yet. Toa
) totarm orovn) of
earl Towrous otiv otrovaouvn, ti Tos vekd to
Tapaokevagouvois, dAA t keiv,

off
* veka Tvt.

/
towara trapaakevd'etat.
td
220 owy 6Tu To)\kt:

dis

ye Kal
Ayouev, Tepi ToMAob Totovue6a Xpvolov
*

w
dpyptov dAAd u) ovv oijra

T
uAAov

to
3/ a ev

w
w

a
s

*
5

3
/
5

*
d'An6s xi), dAA* &ceiv otiv Teph Travrs Totov

w
3/

e
*
div
havi v, 5Tov veka kal Xpvaiov Kal
ple6a,
6

dp5
/
Tapaokevagueva Tapaokevgetat.
r

Tvta * *

/
oros bigouev; IIdvv ye. Okov kal *Tepi e/
Toi

a.

a
*

e
3
e

/
*

avrs Ayos;

60
$thov yap baptev biXa elval july

e/ S.A
veka bimov Tuvos tpov, diplatt batvue6a Ayovres /
e

/
#A

1
B

ar biXov *T) vrt kivvvevei kelvo air *


8

elval,
*
tgal affrat Meyueva buxial teNevtw.
ai

els

* *
*

ye
oijroos,

T
Kvvvevel pm, xetv. Okov
biXov Tuvs veka hixov otiv; 'AAq6.
off

vt. bi}\ov
* ey
w

w
5

w
dTijAAaktat,
6)

Toto uv 5AA hi}\ov twds veka


ui
8

*
A
:
s. Tw
5

T 1# f
Tw

5
*

5
*
2

biXov biXov elva' * d'AA'


*
pa
*
dyadv ott

*.M : 8
3.

3/

w
Mov; "Euotye boket. "Ap ov 8wd *

t*
* >/ * * kakv *,
3/
>

el 5
*

dyaffv ht)\etral, kal xet (5e dy."


* Toudov vrov
C

* *.
s


a
vv &Ayouey, dyadoo kai kakoff kal uire dyaffod
8

8
r.

ire kakob, 88o Aewb6ein,


T

kakw ctobw

"
w

#
drA6ot kal unevs
* bdtrouto unite oduatos ufr

..
*

livXijs uTe Tw dAAov, baptev aird kaff aird y
6
&

* * -
>

ore kaka elval oit dyadd, dpa


du

Tre o8v juiv : '. . al


w
r w

Xpiouou ein
/

dyadv, dAA xpmotov yeyovos


* *.,
w
*

* Yap "bey ju
BA
&r

eim; into
"

other
el

/
2

8)
&v

oBeuts diffe}\ias Beoiue6a, kai offTo


D

* **

Tr
tpou Hermann rpp Mss,
*

)'.
5t

Socrates here strangely confuses the cause (T


'
*

#
of(T.

he

with the object carefully.


'
in

view &vek row), which


distinguished 'W
in

the case medicine (219 A).


60
LYSIS
W

all
gmov'
.

Or may we perhaps state it thus:


son? such
seri" Concern not entertained for the actual things
areis

*|5"t for
an:) which applied something, but

of
the sake

all
for
noMs that something for whose sake the rest are
setting

of
applied know that we often talk
I
*

"'
on

value gold and silver but surely we are

:
re

for

all we
that; what

":
of

the truth the matter


no
|

nearer
rather value above everything the thingwhatever
befor whose sake gold and is
to

may prove
it

May we state
the

other commodities are applied.


3700.

T'
..

By
so?

we
all

means. Then shall not give the


it
|

all
speaking
In
of

of
lit?" same account friend? the
a

of
us
to

aM" things that are friends some for the sake


friend, we find ourselves uttering
# &

1% Other mere
a

be
reality friend appears
to
in

phrase; whereas

all

simply and solely the thing these so


in

which
So

he
called friendships terminate. appears,
it
| | | #

said. Then the real friend friend for the sake


is
a

nothing else that friend? True.


is
Of

a
we

have got rid


this, and
So

of

not for the


is
it

some friendly thing that the friend friendly.


of

is

Sake
now, the good friend should say so.
is

But
a

I
#

the bad that the good


of

And further, because


is
it
|| ||

as

loved"; let me state the case follows: there


is

which we have just been speaking


are

of

three things
neither good nor bad.
If

-good, bad, and what


is
of

but two these remained after evil had been cleared


|

contact with anything,


no
so

that
had
or it

away,
|

body any the other things


of
or

whether soul
we

count neither bad nor good themselves,


in

that
#
#y
?

be

that good would be


of

Would the result no use


_-
us,

but would have become quite useless thing


to

?
For

there were nothing left harm us, we should


to
#

noif
r)

of

car feel want any assistance; and thus we should


61
PIATO
* / cy w \ w > w 5 *
yvotto katn Nov 6tt vd T kakw tdya6v jyar.
Plev kai bouev, dis w
happakov v to 5 kakob T
dyabv, T 6 kakw v6omua vogiuatos 8 u
vros- ojv Bet w hapudkov.w
.w do oijra,- Tvk
* Te kal
bu}\etrat Tyaffv *-8wd t kakw job judov, Tv uera#5
-
w > *
6vrov too kakob Te kal Tayaffoi, avr 8 avrot.
t/ * * * */ */ *

6s,
5 ev

veka oveutav Xpeiav xet; "Eourcev, 8


*/ */ * *
T

et
e/
juv ketvo,

eis5
oiros xetv. T dpa biXov

6
T
re\evra Tvra * AAaveka &rpov blov*/ bha
E

*/ * *

/
1
38
&baptev eival ketva-o6v 8
[]' Towrous otkey.
*

p
*

76
Tara uv yp hi\ov veka hi}\a kkAmrat,

T
8
vt. biXov tv tovavriov *tourov haiveral
* * Trebuks.

>
w

/
-

c

el 5
$ov yp juty dwebvn
dis by
f

T t
/ B\
x6pob veka
*/ */ *
,
w

-&ouk, &off juv hi}\ov.



5

&x6pv drA6ot, okrt,


5/ - */ ty
dis

/
ye

/
O5 uot Bokei, &bm, vv Ayetat. IIrepov,

*
w

Tps Ats, v
#v

to

- &yd, - kakv dwAmrat, o6


3

*/ */ -
reviv

-
38
8

#AA
221 tv otal ov6
38&
Bahv o8 d'AAo 38
ow8v Tw
w
f

Towavrov; Teivn uv arat, dvtep div6potoi

te
* *
)
-

|| s
/

plvrot BAaBep ye; kal 8tha


6 o
j,

kai TAAa 600 ey *



w

ai e

T ow
87w

kai #AA
AAat trifluuiat, dAA
#AA kakai, &re toff
- * -
kakob droMoMTos; yeMotov ptmua,
ti
*\ * 6
w

if

*/
otal,
*
/

r
2

ToT &ota Tte tis yp o!8ev; #AA'


u
j

d.

*/ ey = y/ *
/
\
/

ye

4.
ov Te togev, rt kal vv at. Teuvovira 8Ad
'':#
Treo6a, ort #ydp; IIdvvye,
6

kal diffeAetoflav.
#
s

Okov kai Bahvra kai Tv dAAov Tv Totoray


Trvrov tuffvuovta otiv viote uv diffe}\iuals
s
B

*
6

BAaeps, viore
8

tuffvuetv, plmrepa;
(t

viote
-
-
/

Xbpa kak,
T

ye. Okov v dToMAvnTai


:
6,

om. Cornarius: Heindorf.


5
*

62
LYSIS
to face the fact that it was because of the bad
w"
3 * have
1(M).
felt such a friendly affection for the good,
that we
KGKOUT
! . since the good is a cure for the bad, while the bad
}S #
| is an ailment, and if there is no ailment there is no
jkt:
the good
for

of
not this the nature
Is
cure.
W"
| need
a

of
the bad by who are midway

us
beloved because
to

ans between the bad and the good, whereas separately


#

Apparently so,
and

no
its
for

of
own sake use
is
it
0.

?
;8

said. Then our friend,


#

which all the other in


he
:
10,

f 5

things terminatedwe called them friends for the


/

Mov
some other friendhas no resemblance to
of

Sake

*
*

6,46
these. For they are described friends for the
as
S.

friend: but the real friend appears

it to
of

##, sake
to

|have quite the opposite character; for we found


foe, and
no of
be

friend for the sake the foe


if
|

to

#1
a
el

we

friend, seems, any


be

removed have
it
#'s

should
ty

II:
judge by
he

say not, assented,


to

more. should
I

present argument. Tell me,


you, beg
Our

of
it I

I
or be

70),
went on, evil abolished, will impossible
*

is
if
any

#y feel hunger
or
to

longer thirst other such


f !,

hunger exist, long


as

Or will
so

90701 conditions men


?
and

animals exist, but without being hurtful


l
w
}

Kal
all

Thirst, too, and other desireswill these exist


dr
Without being bad, because the bad will have been
T
.
*

Or

/0, 0"
this ridiculous questionas
is

abolished
a
?
5

For
in

|to what will exist or not exist such case


a

?
w;

"

is all

Taff" who can tell? Yet


this, events, we do know
it at

things are now, possible for


as

that,
it. to

Idyv? man
a

by
feel

be

hurt,
to
as

hunger and also benefited


a

oloff.
You agree Certainly. And so, when man feels
he a

le'" thirst
?
or

sort, may
of

any other desire the have

*
$r!' that desire sometimes with benefit, sometimes
With harm, and sometimes with neither Quite so.
?

things abolished, there any reason


is

evil are
if

Now
63
PLATO

& ye un Tvyxvet vra kalc, Ti Tpooijket T.


* / 2 * 3f 3/

Karcots ovvatAAvg6av; O8v. "Eoovtat dpa. s


puire dyadal uite kakai tuffvuial kai v d.
GAntav T kak. Daiveraw. Olw re offv ot
pvra Towrov

off
artvuotivta *kai tuffvuel

de K.
* 5/ * 3/ *

w
5

2
&p pun bu)\eiv; Ok uovye 8orce?. "Eatov
scal Tv kakw dToMouvov, dis ouke, bi) rt.
3/ sy */ *

rw

w
ye
*
r

5
Nai.

jv
Ok div, kakw airtov

To
et
C

* v *

5
5

*
&v
5iX
di\ov elvat, ok

jv
tu

Towrov dToMouvov

A
biMo

/
yap droMouvns
* airias
repov tpq9. dvat
* * *
tf

kelvo elval,

off
airn
jv

jv
Tov airia. "Op
juiv

ye T
6s Ayets. Okotiv duo Rymtat biXol
kal bijnuev Tte
tu
%the kai vd. bid
T.

T.
v

t
uire dyaffv uite kakv
to

T
rakw dyaffor
bu)\eiv; 'AAnn. Nv ye, dis &ouke, 8
D

baiveral
ris

* airia* ro5* 3/
Te
dAA) (ht)\ety kai
Metaffat. "Eot:

bu
ty
Ap * ovy
s/

"l f
*

ovtt, anotep apti eAyouey,


A

#A
icev. T4 *
airia, kal
w

Tw
/

/
5

5
/

/
&tuffvula Tijs buxias &tuffvuotiv himoy
* *

-
a
o

earl Tourq tuffvuet real Tte 6tave/ tuffvuff,

ju, 6
*

4.
ris
Tw
8w

*
*

f
*

TpTepov Ayouev biXov elvat, 56Aos


diotep Toimua uakpv ovykeiuevov; Kuwvvete,
ye

tuffvuot,
T
ju

'AAAd *uvrov, eyd,


3

&#m.
* *

/
#,

ydp; Nai.
8>&v
* off

Tovtov tuffvuet. *
E

vees s/ 3.
w

w
5
*

*
P

o
du
off

T * eves doa biAov rceivov * s/ vees #,


A.
W

Eves yiyveral
5
off

du
B

Ti1

Aoket uot.
8

* dh.
apitat. Il
ov; To
3/
2

/
o8

e
5:

off, as oukev,
lov oikei.ov 8%
0.5

119s
:
djsTe

pos kai tuffvuta Tvyx6vel offoa,


* buMia kai
M
w

w
*

/
/
*
/
e

haivetal, Xuvebarmy.#,
te

Mevev scal Avou.


.
&

'' ".

Stephanus:
Tus

Mss.
r
*

i.e. things that are proper congenial


or

to

'

one.
1

64
C
LYSIS
'why the things
that are not evil should
pg

be abolished
|

along with the


evil? None.

So
that those desires
it)
y

which are neither good


nor bad will exist even
#|the bad things are when
abolished. Apparently. Now

is
... 14

possible for man, when

he
to it

desires and loves,


no
is

have friendly feeling


towards

he
'n' desires and loves think not. that which
Thus certain
I
'

|things will continue


be
to

il friendly,
Wy

seems, when

it
things are
**

abolished. Yes,

be
|if

It
*::
cannot that,
.
evil were the cause
of

thing being friendly,


a

thing should
be

friendly
to

'is abolished. For when cause


another when evil
abolished, that
is
a

"0
no
*

thing can longer exist, presume,


e?"'s cause. You are right. which had this
I
its

we

Now have agreed


the

#|hat friend has friendly feeling


for
a

something
and

of

because something; and we supposed,


just
"E:

then, that
it

was because
of

evil that what was


*::ither good nor bad loved the good.
True. But

now, seems, we make


y

it

out different cause of


a

|Wing and being


loved.
It

seems so. Can really


it
as

then, we were saying just now,


be

that desire
a is
of

friendship, and the desiring thing


he

cause
is
of to

#iend what which desires, and


it

any
so
at
is

|ime desiring; while our earlier


statement
all

bout friends was


mere drivel, like poem
a

ung out for


mere length
it,
It

he

looks like
?

#id. But still,


*: went on, the desiring thing
it I

desires
in
at

which deficient, does


is is

not
in it

Yes.
?

40"And the deficient


friend
to

that
a

which
it
is

Aft eficient? suppose so. And


I

it

becomes deficient
it of

that which
it

suffers deprivation. To be
a
So

is
r
e.

one's own belongings," seems, that


it
the

of

objects love and friendship and desire;


e

appears,
it

Menexenus and Lysis. They


WOL,
both
W

65
PLATO

Yue's dpa T)w


- / )
D >
et
* *
biXot
* -otvK d'AA#Aous,
-, * r *
bioet
K
oiketoi o 6 juv airots. out, didtmu. Kal
ey f * c * -, *
999 el & 6
tepos rpov etvvuet, jv 8
222 el -dpa - Tws
*/
eyd), a
*Q \
Tates,
/
p,
w
dy
offs * / Tote teuet
- off mpa
f
o8

epiMet, el un oikeis Tm T, pouvg) &twyxavey


d)v kard thu livXijv kata Tu Tijs livXi's #60s
# Tptovs elos. IIdvv ye, din
- d Mevevos"W
d 8 Avous otymoev. Elev, jv 3 eyd. To

8 oiketov dvaykalov juv


puv
*
divoet
*/ */ > - 3/ Tbavrat
-
quxeiv. "Eoukev, bm. 'Avaykalov dpa to yum.\
- -
oiq
- paori
- kai un Tpoortovro duxetoffat #70r
B Tw Travukw.
-w

3.
uv ov Avous kal Mev
/ e w f
evos uy's Taos tevevodtnv, 6M
d 8 Introffd)ms
tt Tijs jovs Tavtoata joblet xpdjuata. f
Kai yd, eitov, BovXuevos Tv Ayov ttak
'haoffat, El - too duotov
uv Tu T oiketov 8tabpet,
/ }
djs
Tu,
div

Myouev uol Boket, Avot

Te
kal Mev
&
B

eve, Tept biXov, otiv TaTv rvyxvel


et

| ''
- -
6

w
*\ e/
*

5
/
r

48tov -droaketv Toy'


o5
Te

Kai oiketov,
v

uotw

W
.
r
dis

to

Tpaffew Adyov, duolo kard


ot

5uotov

*
foy'


dxpmotov
T

T#v uotrnta xpmarov


jv

duo Aoyetver TAnupleMs. Boeoff - &y, offy,

s
C

8
/
\

&retr) diotep ue6%plew


* e/
ind rob Ayov, avy.
w
w

xop jacouev kai figev repv


/

oiketoy
Tu

elva. s

tob duotov; IIdvv ye. IIrepov obv kal


6oopew Tavri, kakw Mrpio'
T T

''
olketov

s:
T

etva, kak oiketov,


to

uv kakw
3:
)

dyad) ure dyaff u%re


to

kak's
8

dyadw,
dyadov wire kakv; Oros &#rmy
to

ute
abiov kaotov kdarq' oiketov elva. IIMy'
M||

66
LYSIS

| agreed. Then if you


two are friends to each other
by some natural bond you belong to one another.

| Precisely, they said. And in a case where one


#| person desires another, my boys, or loves him,
| he would never be desiring or loving or befriending
-
him, unless he somehow belonged to his beloved

| either in soul, or in some disposition, demeanour


"| Or cast of soul. Yes, to be sure, said Menexenus;
Lysis was silent. Very well, said
but

what

I
be :
by

to
some
us

jar nature has been shown


to

belongs

he
we

so,
It
thing needs must befriend. seems said.
}

Then the genuine, not the pretended, lover must


|

by

his favourite. To this Lysis


be

needs befriended
and Menexenus gave but faint nod assent; allof
a
| | |

While Hippothales,
his delight, turned
in

manner
colours.
Of

reviewing the argument,


then, with the design
of
So

proceeded: any difference between


If

there
is
I

what belongs like, me, Lysis


to

and what
it

seems
|

is

Menexenus, that we might give some account


and
''

the

meaning friend. But like and


of

if
of

to

"belonging are the same, not easy get


it
is

our former statement, that the like


rid
of

useless
is
|

they have likeness; and


to
as

far
so
in

the like
to
|

be

admit that the useless friendly would gross


is

a
|

So

how we agree now, said, since our


if

mistake.
I

quite tipsy, say that the


to
us

argument has made


|

belonging and the like are two different things


P
we
By

means. Then shall maintain that the good


all

itself belongs every one, while the bad


|

to

alien
is

P
Or

does the bad belong bad, good


to

to

the the the


good
to

good, and what neither nor bad what


is
is

neither good nor bad They agreed that the last


So

three pairs belong together. here again, boys,


67
PLATO
3/ * / * * ev w * *
dpa,
D 5 jv yd, 6* Tates, toa. Tptov Ayovs
/8 r
oils
* 3. *
dateBaxue6a Tept buxias, eis towTovs eiotett

T)
scapev yp dukos T diko kai kakos
* * 3/ w *

p
dya

5
5
c
a
*

r
dyads

Tif o
rak) o8v #trov biXos Tat

Twd
*. */

T w
w
3/

>

w
/
66). * "Eoukev, din. * 8, dyaffv kai
*
*\ *

w
x/
5

5
c

*
v
olketov Tatw bouev elvau, AAo dyados

Tv
*

\
T dyad* uvov bMos; Ildvv ye.* "AAAd uy

ow 5
scal toT ye obdueffa e Myat jus avtovs.

#
guvno.6e; Meplvueffa.
* *
T

T Ayo;
f
Xpmaatuea
v

ov rt
E

65Mov

#
6T

ow8v; 6ouat obv, diotep

oi

v
oodbol Tols
td

Bukaotmpious, eipmuva &tavra dvateutdaa


*
w

of e
*

/
ei

oie
a
offat. yp ute bu)\ovuevov unite (bobvres

.
dyadol
of e oi

wive

of
Ta oi
uffre uovo
* dvuovot
*/
unite -

pite
A.

A.
c/
5

oiketot unite AAa ga * Bue}\m}\v6apley

5
to
f

r
o

yp &yoye uuvnual Tob TAffflovs-dM


Towtow hi}\ov otiv, yd) uv officer xo
Ti et

umbv
Ayo.
Tajra
v)

etyov dAAov jn Tuvd ty


v

eitdiv
3

223
Tpea#vrpov kivetv. kra, diotep 6aiuovs Tives,
*

'
o
oi c

TpogeX6vres Tatayaoyot,
Te

Tob Mevevov
6

kal Tob Avotos, xovres avtv Tolls deXbows,


&

Tapeka Xovy kai


avTows oikae driva"
kAevow
* * *
A.
5

"ptov
at To

yap jue's
fiv

%m dib.
* uv obv kal
w

Tepteottes teib)
of

scal Tows
* atmMavvouev.
*".
5
6
f
2
8w

''.
|
AA
o8v bpvrtkov judov, dAA
38 5to80p8.api'ovres
66

|
| l: 5. '' #'.
jyavktovy Sv Trov kAovv, dAA
Te

kal
of

kovy juv broTetraoktes Tots Epuaious *dropol


v
B.

*
e

Tooahpeoffat, ov airw
3,

elva. itTm6vres
&:
.

The word belonging seems throw some light


it to

on

friend, but even we distinguish from like


if

turns
it

68
LYSIS

'
I
fly" have dropped into the very statements
said, we
at: regarding friendship which we rejected at first ; for
; :) the unjust will be as much a friend of the

| "Just, and the bad of the bad, as the good of the


#00d.' So it seems, he said. And what is more,

*'I:
we say

(ll
if we that the good and the belonging are the
same, cannot avoid making the good friend only

a
To
the

be

good. sure. But this again, you know,


is to
1"

which we thought we had disabused


of

view
a

do do

Ourselves; you remember, you not We do.

?
we

#|
So

what more can with our argument?


:

Obviously, think, nothing. can only ask you,


I

accordingly, like the professional pleaders


in
the law
#| perpend
of

courts, the whole what has been said.


to
|

neither the loved nor the loving, nor the like nor
If thethe

good

so all
'6" unlike, nor the nor the belonging, nor
we

rest that have tried turnthey


in

are
}

one, any
to

fail
I,

many that for remember more


friend,
of

at

Well, none these am loss for


if

is

a
a

say.
to

anything further
up

Having thus spoken,


to

was minded stir


I

Somebody else among the older people there;


when, like spirits from another world, there
came
Menexenus and Lysis: they
of

the tutors
us

upon
Were bringing along the boys' brothers, and called
out

go home; for was getting


to

them the order


to

it
we

late. At first tried, with the help the group


of
| |

around us, drive the tutors off; but they took


to

on

all, and went angrily calling,


us
in of

at
as no

notice
before, their foreign accent. We decided that
|

drop too much


so at

they had taken the festival


a

customers;
be

might we gave
in

and awkward
just good and bad, and therefore
be

as

indifferent
to
as to

Out
significance friend.
of

Just remote from the moral


69
PLATO
a. w / ey > */ 3/ >

(it
eAoauev Tijv ovvovatav. uos 3 &yoye jm
tovtov airw, Nv uv,

#v

ka
Te
yd, Avon

&
8
f
Meveve, katayAaotov yeyvaluev yd te, ypoi
* *
2
divip, kal juets. podot yp ote dtvvres

dis
*

a'
e

*
\

\
/

*
olue6a jue's d'AA#Acov biXow elvai-kai u yp
* 3/ ef >p

6w

*
juiv tmutoito
*
{

/
Te v

Tu
otiv biXos olot

6

yevue6a evpeiv.

70
LYSIS
!
07. to and broke up our party.
them, However, just
| as they were moving off, I remarked: To-day,

p
. Lysis and Menexenus, we have made
ridiculousI, an old man, as well as you.
ourselves

#
For
these others will go away and tell how we believe

I count myself
|:
y
we arefriends of one anotherfor

is,
with youbut what a friend we have not
0.
in
yet

discovering.
in

succeeded

71
|

SYMPOSIUM
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM

THE Symposium of Plato holds an acknowledged place


among those few masterpieces of human art which
unveil and interpret something of the centrah mystery
of life. It has been a source of light and inspiration
to successive ages since the revival of learning,
and is revisited by the same reader at different
times of life with fresh wonder and praise. Like
other great works of art, it provides its own intro:
duction; so perfectly is the scene set and presented
that even at the distance of twenty-three centuries
we are able to catch the various tones of the speakers,
first in the ripple of their casual talk, and then in
the flow of their competitive eloquence. But while
the modern reader can hardly miss the main effect
of the simple narrative, as it develops the lively
drama in which the sparkle of satiric wit is made to
enhance the glow of high poetic rapture, there are
one or two points to which attention may be usefully
directed, in order that the work may convey the
fullest possible measure of its meaning and value.
Its theme is the passion of personal love, so often
the subject or occasion of literary art, but rarely
examined in its moral aspect with any true perception
or profit. Love is here treated with a sense of
its

universal importance and with reach and certainty


a

insight which
do

not appear any other


of

of
in

the
74
-
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM
great religious or moral teachers. This confident
mastery was one of the extraordinary powers of

Socrates which Plato at this stage of his writing


was intent on portraying; it was one of the strangely
memorable impressions which the elder man left
his simple, inquisitive
his

spite

of
in
On associates,

In
ignorance.

of
UM manner and his constant avowals
his

he
more positive moods described himself
of

Some
dpl" lover,

of
of in
an

inveterate the sense declared


as

a
and

the great energy


worshipper

of
will devout
t

its

nys' Nature which various workings amongst men


in
by

the general name Eros. Often


of
irati" was called
would feign, his playful, paradoxical way,

to
in
he

armi'
on

iffere: put himself level with ordinary sensual men,


a
and

by

discussing their viewsif they had any, and


Lik

state themwould endeavour to lead


to

int" Consented
be on
the

to

his own conception love, where


of

talk
it
send
on

approached the loftiest and most


to

ature) was
thought. For the very purpose
of
plane
of

akes! serious
to

telling contrast with the common attitude the


len
#
a

of
he

wh: matter, would make humorous use the terms


to a

eff: ofordinary love-passion produce suddensurprise


of in
a

hearers, when they found that his own pursuit


his

lift
de' intellectual refinement through friendly
or

affectionate
intercourse was independent the outward attrac
of
-
e

So

explanation may perhaps


of

#|tions much
of

sense.
necessary, and may just suffice, for right under
#
be

in a

this dialogue.
f' his banter with Alcibiades
of

standing
6,
|

the great dramatic excellences


of
of
It

one
is
.
*

he

how Socrates adapted his


us

Plato that shows


of

tone and language the characters his hearers


to
it

stages argument exposi


of

or

his
to
fit

and the several


#|tion. This ready sense the daily lives and thoughts
of
no

less than the half-logical,


his

companions,
#!
of

75
|
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM
half-mystical bent of his energetic mind, led him
to the knowledge that, however easily or completely
he might have freed his own faculties from the
nfusing trammels of carnal appetite, the mass of
mankind was subject to the sway of bodily beauty;
and that no theory of love could be satisfactory
hich did not take due account of this elemental
act of human nature. So he seizes this favourable
oment in the talk at Agathon's party to suggest
that visible beauty is the most obvious and distinct
reflection in our terrene life of an eternal, im
mutable Beauty, perceived not with the eye but
with the mind. He preaches no avoidance of the
contest with appetite, but rather the achievement
of a definite victory over the lower elements of
love-passion, and the pursuit of beauty on higher
and higher levels until, as in a sudden flash,

its
ultimate and all-rewarding essence revealed.

is

.
the theory
of

His modest attribution

to
his

in
,
structress, the wise woman Mantinea,
of

probably

is

|| |
indicate that we are passing beyond
to

meant
Socratic thought and listening really
of

the bounds

|
Plato; but quite possible and reasonable
to to

it
is

#.
suppose that Socrates relating the actual
is

# #
his

own cogitation after


of

results discussion with


a

some revered and impressive counsellor.


'' * ' i.
In

this dialogue the theory only adumbrated


is

for an exalted moment convivial talk: its far-


in in in

reaching developments psychology and meta-


physics are set forth the Republic, Phaedrus,
Phaedo, and elsewhere. Here, through the glow
poetic speculation, we get glimpse, not merely
of of

logical theory, but whole philosophy


of

or
a

||
'.

way
of

lifea progress towards complete enlighten


76
|
--~~~

NIUM INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM

all
who have opened
led

to
commended which is
his

ment

see that they walk

in
mple: their eyes enough the

to
ignorance. stages, seems, may
#)

The final
of

it
Tom shades
too difficult even for Socrates himself com

to
be

mass

beau'' prehend: thus with many hesitations and apologies


the

inquiry seeks
of

to
isfact: great master communicate
thoughta wondering
of

eme: thrilling adventure his


a

the general idea

or
of

vour' recognition immaterial

"
all

sugg|form which presides over similar appearances

in
the

disi, material world. An absorbing thought, we are


told, kept him standing
mal,

the street for some time


in
in

he
joined dinner-party
he

ye" before
so

the here shows


to :
of

something his endeavours reach the summit


of

of us
|

absolute being
of
in

realm
to

vem wisdom, and move


a

beyond the utmost flight philo


ents

of
which perhaps
is
:

#|sophy. But the main thesis seeks


to

show how
sh,

sensual charm we may


of

through the slavish trance


pass with ever wakening and widening powers
)

to

the
best and freest activity our faculties, the con
of
his
#!

ob' templation invisible, eternal verity. The lowest


of

linked with the highest; and noteworthy


re:"|

it
is
)

is

fix

eulogy
of

to

that Alcibiades Socrates serves


on

practical beginnings the progress,


of

on' attention the


by

ad: demonstrating that rare intellectual communion


a
on
be

of

may built the defeat mere sensual aims.


wi'
n

its

proportions design
of

and the texture


its In

the
on' style the Symposium stands out from even the
of
: s'

as

writings
of

of

best Plato marvel artistic ease


a

m, and grace. Translations have frequently succeeded


presenting his vivid picture
of

the social manners


his his of in

time, the beauty


of

of

the place and and much


eloquence; but they have failed


to

transmit
of

brilliant characterization the individual


#'

style An
of

their addresses.
in

speakers the
77
|
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM
attempt has been made here to indicate in different
sorts and degrees the euphuistic influence of
Sicilian rhetoric in the speeches of Phaedrus, Pau
sanias, and Agathon; the medical college manner
of Eryximachus; the racy, extravagant humour
of Aristophanes; the lofty solemnity of Diotima;
and the frank, unbosoming tone of Alcibiades.
The date of the opening conversation is about
400 B.C.; the banquet itself was in 416 B.C. Apollo
dorus, whom we meet also in the Phaedrus (59), was
noted for his enthusiastic attachment to Socrates
in his last years; Aristodemus, who related to him
the story of the banquet, was the Master's intimate
of an earlier time. Agathon, the brilliant and
courteous host, has just won the prize with the first
part of a tetralogy or group of four plays at a
dramatic festival: he was born about 447 B.C., and
studied rhetoric under Gorgias and Prodicus.
Phaedrus, who makes the first speech at the party,

c),
was a disciple of Hippias (Protag. 315 and

a
Plato, who gave his name
of

friend to
the other
dialogue (the Phaedrus) which especially deals with
the subject love. Pausanias, the next speaker,
of

disciple Prodicus (Protag. 315


of

D)
was and
a

a
passionate admirer Agathon; his speech
of of

is
typical exhibition the plausible, ornamental a

the literary sophists. Eryximachus, son


of

rhetoric
the physician Acumenus, followed his father's
of

profession and belonged the great medical guild


to

the Asclepiadae. He has the unbending gravity


of

and cold, dogmatic utterance


of

the student and


upholder Aristophanes, the great comic
of

science.
poet and close contemporary Agathon, had seized
of
on

the originality which distinguished Socrates from


78
INTRODUCTION TO THE SYMPOSIUM

on
the

feel ordinary sophists, his scientific


and also
learning and argumentative subtlety,

to
make him
ice

the
Pe)

central figure
of
fun the Clouds (423 B.C.).

in
an: Here he makes the theme of love the occasion for

Im: satirical sketch, his own fantastic spirit and


in
a

physiological theories the day.

of
brilliant style,
of
in

the height
(c.

at
Alcibiades 450404 B.C.) shown is
|

he
his

popularity, year before sailed with the


of

a
|
*I * |

Expedition. tipsy immodesty

of
Sicilian The his
mood throws into noble relief the passionate warmth
*I his admiration for the character Socrates.
of
of
#

of

For fuller discussions the Symposium readers


*

G. to

are recommended consult Jowett's Introduction


Bury's useful edition (1909).
R.

(1892), and Dr.


|[.
|

79
|
* * - *

Q.
>TMTIOXION
* ,
AIIOAAOAOPOX ETAIPOX

St.III - w

p. 172 AII. Aok uot Trept div Tvv6dveaffe oijk dueMrntos

eis
eival. kal yp rvyxavov Tpgmy datv oikoffew
divudy da)\mp6ev Tv ov yvoopiuov Tis 6twoffey

Tij
Tppo6ev kAege, kal traigov dua
We

Kartw
KAjget, 'Q, QPa}\mpews, pm, oros 'AtoMAopos,
- cy

6s,
Tepplev's; kyd) twords Tepuuelva kal
o

*/
i

*
*/
w

/
AtroMAape, m, kai unv kai vayys
5

/
/

v
v

oe
tovy BovMuevos 8watv6offat thv 'Ay6aovos ovy -
Y.
A.

w
w

*A
/

ovoiav kal Xaokpdtous kai 'AAkuffudov


*
*

kai Ty
dAAov -Tv Tte - t)- ovv8eitvq Tapayevouvov,
v

/
Trept Tv potukw yov Tives joav. dAAos ydp
A6

to

Tis uot Bunyeito dronkodos (Doivukos p.Wittov,


5

dAAd yp o8v etxe Gabs


8

&bn kal Geelval.


*
el ?

Ayetv' obv plot 8vymoat. Bukattatos yp


on

Tolls to taipov Ayovs drayy\\eiv. Tpatepov


Tij

6s, eit,
o

atts tapeyvov
8

uov, ovvov
6'

oia TaTim o, kyd, eltov 6tt HavrTaqw


-
,

*/
v

}8& Bunyovuevos,
6

&otk oot ow8v 8wmyeloffat


8

-
8

oadbs
ca
w

jv

hy Thy ovvovoiav yeyovva. Tavrmy


et

vecoatt

Nothing
of

known this man.


is
*

80
THE SYMPOSIUM
)XION

his
Apollodorus tells
Companions hon,

he
): ETAIPOX about the Banquet heard
f
AP.

* >

ind'
"
()
believe
have got the story you
I

wflveafle ovk*
pretty well
I
be by inquire
1

of
#

npnyes % !chanced heart. The day

o'

A" :
before yesterday
to
|

: of up
p

# yopi" 07* going

to
TuS Ph town from my house
,
d
halerum, when

in
w T
one my

'
\ege, Kal Tailov 1.
of

* 5
sight me from behind, acquaintance caught
60000. some way off,
in

bantering tone
Hullo, Phalerianand called

w ovros
a

,
rTO.S Tepll!
0."
f Apollodorus, wait say,

I
|
heSo
a

s ge # moment. stopped
\kal

- wated. Then,
%

I
Apollodorus, and
said,
looking for you, do
know,
%al Tmy 'Ayfforos." have just been you
I

..."
all
\

as
''
/

TU

K0. hear about the banquet want


i

I
'AAkiffl000 that brought together
l

!...." Agathon and


eyou" Socrates and
'that party, and what Alcibiades and the rest
rives jou'." delivered upon were the speeches they
polyukos To" 00:
Mint'
relating
love. For somebody
to

me the account else was


yip

*n

(10) he had from


of

Philip, and Phoenix,"


he

"... mentioned that you


...

he

ya!
Strara" But knew
it
could not tell
all
at

"st
it
/

clearly;
/

so

give me you
V.

inayy' "per reporter theyour whole story, for you


are the most
of
irst
tell

dear friend's
me

this,
he

discourses. But
Party yourself, went on: were you
at
"| :

or

"You have had not ? To which my that


answer
"r anything but was
:

clear
a

informant, you suppose account from


if

*ing about the party you


to
|

have been such are


5f

this man.
recent
a

vol. affair
|

v.

G
r

81
PLATO
* * ey w o w * */ /
pots, diate kai u2 Tapayevoffat. "Eyaoye 8ff,
* * /
3/

&bm.
1
II d6ev,
56 jv 8
3
w
eyd, d5
T
ITAavkov;

ovk t
oio
5

rl to)}\w rv 'Ayd6aov v668e ok ttef


* *
> t > r 5 * w
S &yd Xokpatet

oil
punkev, dd, X. ovvvatpiffo kai

8
tueAs Tetoimual kdorms jupas elval

ti

-

w
Tpartm, o8tro Tpia rm- otiv;
v
Ayn "p
* ey

w
Teputpxov
6
173 Tob 6tm Txotul
- kai oiuevos

ti
-

r
Tolely d6XTepos rovov, ox #TTov

on
vvvi,
- - -

)
i
*
oluevos
ey
Beiv tvra
- uAAov Tpttetv buMooohey.
*/

Kai s, Mij orctt', pm, dAA eit uot trte y


w
w

/
*
*
veto ovvovoia
- airm.- kaya, eltov tv IIaiav
e

|
vrov judov - rt, re Tpairm Tpayq'6ig vikmaew
Ti

/
|
*

votepaig

r
'Ayd6aov, twikva 6vev airs
Ti

Xopevtai. IIdvv, pm, dpa tdAal,

dis
te

kal
oi

oukev. dAAd Tis oot Bunyetto; * airs Xo-

)
ey -
sparms; O ud Tv Aia,
w

5
35
2

5
*

*
/
o

*
&yd, AA 60 jv #v
QPoivuku. "A tus, Kva6

/
58

tep CDoivuku. Apwormuos Kvaffnvalevs,


B

oukps, dvvtntos dei Tapayeyvel

t
v
8'
ovvovaig, Xokptovs paori's div
v
- - tols uAuota
djs

w
off

Tv Tte, uol boket. uvrov dAAd kai

E.
ye

Xokptm vva jm divmpumv - keivov -icovoa,

|
m

-
/

scal uot diplomyet kafltep kelvos Bunyetro.

T
:
e
w

-
/

Bunyijoo uot; Tavros


8
o

ov, pm, 68s

#
#

w
f

els dotv tutmeia Topevouvous kai Ayev kal


dkovetv. ey
|
* $
p.

cy
w

w
5
6)

rows A
*

Ayovs Tepi airw


', & &*
Oro 8%
ivres
ty c/
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5

totovue6a, diate, tep dpxuevos elarov, ok due


- -
C

Bet
ei 3.

Aerrs
- xo. * obv kal */ juiv Binyoaoffat,
-
w
w

Taira Xpi) Troteiv. kal yp yaoye kai dAAals,


pm add. Burnet.
*

-
of

Perhaps the father Charmides (Charm. 154).


*

%
#

82
|
'O SYMPOSIUM

.."'

": '
''*''.
"Eywys'

''
that
ayevoffat.
/ * *_l'
included. So did
*
so, Glaucon ? said fuppose,

I

You

he
& TAajkov;
TA 0% " l

"
mb, been
must know year that Agathon

h
it
y &668e ovk

:
::
ow8tatp:80." away from home country, and not three

:
kptet d
*C. r
f / years that Ocrates
hav


eival 0^|
een consorting

e
...' : ''
I
illep's
, ,
ms
gry; and making aily care

to
d
m
know wh
"

it
r)

:a:
tpia
|

what
or
olpe"; Says does.
ryout kai
"|
w

at inking did things,


w

yl), about

I
alive; just
a

wretch edest man yo are at

as
the

u
w
|

'.
/

"'
Tiprtely


present, thinkin philosophy
y

\\ your bus:
g
-
got

d)

.#
?...A

* i
tell
*

eit ness. of

t
U.
#

rt 11010.
that this
) ty' a'i party
dy, elito"
me

&lk'." place.
f

'When you were only children,

#
| a'

#vey

on the occasi Agathon's victory


|

on

y of
v, T

twikid.

S
tdal,"|
a

'
M

fir

first traged
gedy: the da after that the dedicat ory

of
#1,

:
-
#

pl
()

* GT0S feast which he and his players


myroi, held for
t

tion,

i
-

y, M Ah, qui


'l


OUl
*

s
my

5
-
1,

kvaffy" m
seem, the account
S

but who
#y

Tis,
himself P no !
s

I
Tapaye' pM" the person who hoenix
Y:
&y

eV
v

Tols
Aristodemus of man, who

"
ydathenaeum,


::
M
"

li
a
of

uvrol always arefoot. He was


*/

Went
the company
b

K000.

#
'.
,

of the chief am
''g
there,
Socrates'
&klyos OVers at believe. But the same,
9

I
,
ave since Socrates on so of
"

'.
Tvra's
e
w
:

the

k0ll MyW
Juvols
story had his friend, and he noW edged
I
th

be in
..]

to

rdance with his ac count.


Come
&

em
&

then.
let me have
&

Ayous repl. said,


6
ps

:
i

or telling and
%K

eitov,
g
: *


duevos

#y 3". go along.
kai So went, ioning
th

'. I' #
GM"
of

&yoye affair while this


}

began by have
it
as
I

pretty well friends oo must


|

the
had better tell it. For m
|-

ory,
y

154).
I

mides (Cha"
83
PLATO
ey d w f d w 5 *

6tav uv Tuvas Trept bu)\ooodbias Ayovs avrs


* w s/ 5 a w * */ 5

Trovouat i d'AAov drcovao, Xopis Tob oleo6at diffe


* e * e * e/ v >/ /
Aetoffat 5tepdbvs dis Xaipao. 6tav 8 d'AAovs Tuvs,
dAAaos Te kal Tovs juetpovs tos. Tv TAovolov
* A ' ' ' ". '
Kai Xpmuatuorukw,* airs Te - dyflouat -
jus Te
W
~
toys &Taipovs Ae, rl offeoffe Ti touety of 8v
* w f * * *
D Trotovres. Kai toos a jue's u jyetaffe kako
Baiuova elval, kai otoual jus dAn60 offeoffat'
w * as o 3/ 2 5 * s
eyd) uvrot jus our otouat dAA et ola. |
* - *||

del
ET,

Ael 5uotos 'AroMA68opeet, yp gav-


&

'
Te

Tv
*
kai Toys d'AAovs, kal Bok's
kakmyopets
*
a

plot dtexvs Tvras d6Xiovs jyeloffat TM#v Xa).


*

| |
*pdrovs, dr Gavrob doduevos. kai t6ev Tor
||

-
w

T
Tavrmy thv trovvuiav Aaes uavuks kaMet-
*

delW
2/

3
offat, ok ola yoye uv yp tols Ayots
v

#
Te

Gavr kai Tos d'AAous dypwaivets


et

Totoros

t #
A. Zaokpatovs.
a
X.

#
TAmy
ye
'Q

67
hi\tate, kal 60%v

|| 't * ||
AII. offro bia
8:
E

* * *
w

*,
voovuevos kal Tepi uavrob kai Trept judov uaivo"
*

plat kal Tapataiao; viv


ET.

Ok dtov Tept Towrov, 'AtroMAope,


't
ey
5

&piew: AM 5tep eue66 Gov, d'AAos Totions,


u

*
''
d

dAAd 8vymoat Tives joav A6


*
*
5

Ayot.
*

oi
:

AII. 'Hoav Toivvv ketvot Totote Tuvs uMoy


*

* * *
,
t

a.
/
dis

dpxs juv kai yd) tep


to

1748 kelvos Bunye


&#

gouai Bunyijaaoffat.
'.* :

His friend means: I expect you quite deserve your


||
1

crazy fanatic (for your general absorption


of

name
in

p
#
't

84
TO

: '
' :

air.
SYMPOSIUM

''
'' -
gobias Miyous # OWn part, indeed.
commonl

,
*

I
*
#y

"
*
th
w

aside

I#
Xopis ofeoffa
Tow
take an

,
l

in
...

gray Mous" philosophic iscourses, wheth


8:

di
whether

,
speak em myself

in th
a 1...
yself

or
I
povs tolls. T" hear them rom others
th case of other sorts of

f
whereas
-

:
e
''
*

*
**
w
r

of
r
r

that
re
is

dx}oga' *S.

's-
-
a

alin
w
*/

only
*"
ofeoff ut sorrv
# yse
T.

Tol"

f
ike you, -

'
u

Ju's - #&# you are

eal
3.

* you
M

at all. when
-

oleft
jus Anji point

of
a at

view,

,

I
hapless ature, and

itis#
seem

a
3AW effol?" think your ght

I
:' I,
true. however, do not think
w
del

"

you:
of

yp
for sure." know
it

ToMA680p
Y II:
kai

are the COMP. Ou


Y.

ro's dMovs, 30:6

as
same ever, Apollodorus
*\

always defami
w

*
efaming - your self and
-
ous

#yo" one else


}

Your ew
vi

-
it,
-
kal

!
6tley" able, save that all is

": e
fuevos. #ake are miser
and that your
e'.
w

ral
.

plight
the

Way"
...'"

is
WOrSt.


to

w8es may
- yo:
!

have

":
your
of

y. e
title
f

Myos"
uy yp Tols
do

!."
not know ough,

if of
*
I

yp"? course, you


5

like that in

:
Tois Mos
#

speech-raging gainst yourself


and

y
C
ty

or'
5)

P
in
ye


-
d
-

\w sir, obviously
it

Mia'
must

e b
crazy
*

kai Tp" juy


,5

::
!

opinion

of
myself and
of

all
A to
!

,
It

COMP.
is

waste of time.
#

rwy, "AnoM80% Apollod


,

about such In wrangle


&\\0s nof
ers now. Come,
more ado,
pi

0.01), comply with


request and relate
e

Went. speeches
AP. Well then, they
but stay, wer somewhat as follow
:
-must
j tr

:
y
I

and tell you all


fr

roler
t in

Om the

b

do

eginning, ust aS In friend O it.


y

it'ement
philosoph y), because
and
of

others suggests censure yourself


|

85
PLATO

"Effin yap oi Xokptn


vrvXeiv AeAovuvov
Te kal tas BAavras iroeeuvov, & kelvos dA
yakus toiet kal poffat airv rot to oira)
Ka}\s yeyevnuvos.
w w 3. e/ 5 w * 5 2 *
es

Kai
Tv eitely r 'Ett etnyov elsAyd0ovos.
w 5 w * * 5 A. w
6
X6s yp attv 8
8vbvyov tols tuukious, 8 6
bonfleis
o

eis
tv x\ov. djuoMymoa 6 Tijuepov tapoeoffat.
kaAAotto dumu, iva kaAds tap kaMw
)
Tara
*/ * e/ * 3/

o8

w
w
/
lo. ov, os, Taos exels Tpos to effeAew

#6
#A
#AAd
GaAa *)
div

ival dk}\ntos ti Betarvov;


B

Kdyd,

dy
eitov 6ta's

G
pm, r. Oira's

*
a

keRewins.

.
.
.

.
..
ey 3/ ey

w
riv Tapoulav 6ta

/
/

Etrov Toivvv, n, iva kal

8
dis

5
$6eipoplew we'rad AAovres, dpa kai Ayd6av
enri Batras taotv airwarov dyadoi.
*
"Oumpos

w
w
w
w

5
*
oil5

plv yp kivvvevel uvov 6taffeipal AA


8

6
dAA kal

w
eis

Tavrmy Thy Tapoulav. Tovio

as
iBoioav ydp

rd w
Tv 'Ayapuetwova 6.adhepvros dyadov dvpa
w

6w

&

w
*

5
ToMeukd, rv
s

MevAeov pua M6akw aixum


C

rv, 6voiav Totovuvov kai artvros rob Aya


puuvovos toimoev M6vta Tv MevAeov
drc}\mtov
enri Tjv 6oivny, Xeipo 6vta ti Tijv too dueivovos.
Tar dicovoas eitetv m "loos uvrot kivv
dis

vevoo kai yd oily Xo3rpates,


ot

Ayews,
&

* a
w

dAAd kaff "Oumpov haAos div mi Godoff dvps


'Ayd6av Lachmann: d'yav Mss.
*

The name Agathon resembles the Greek for good men's


*

the proverb, which seems


to
in

have been: avruaro. dyadol


5
A.;

dyabw ri airas tag. (Athen. Bacchyl. fr. 33). The


i.
8

corruption consists putting the dative 'Ay6v() for


in

dyabw; though perhaps the reference


to

of

another form
is

of

the proverb which had betAw (cravens') instead dyadw.


86
* SYMPOSIUM
TO

'urney Melovi
:d'.

7 Hon Aristodemus fell in with Socrates and came


k

*
8suvov, a the Banquet
or
"
"|

to
g_- ?:, aim

"
He
To

sai

he
airw said that met with Socrates fresh from the
in

Aft|
:
slippersquite

of
his
b
#: and wearing best pair
* |

he
:

rare events with himand asked him whither


es

"'
-
:'.
#|

such fine trim.

in
Was bound
*

To

I
Agathon's,
Tap
":".

he
at
dinner answered.

"
his
is

celebrations yesterday, fearing


:
kaMs evaded him and
wg

So
the

be
crowd; but present to-day:
|

agreed

to
"pls
to

:ye's

I
order
;

up
this handsome style

in

to
got myself

in
Oy;
I

tell me,

:: :
."

*...
for
"":
g

Ojra's match my handsome host. Now


be

5ta's
a

unaske
he,

for
"do you feel going
in
said the mood
(".

"'
:,
,
,

M.

"
?

Tiv Tapoula' dinner


to

that you
al

replied,
he

he
kal" 'Ay' For anything, said -

"
#on
may bid me do.
s

"Ou
Ol
Come along then, said; let
he
corrupt

us
M.
a

t #| "

the

proverb with new version


l/

:
pout they go accord,
of

What their own


if

our Goodman's' board?


fly dypd
The good men
to

-as y0.


"...Waky
&

'"
be

yros Homer may


Pl
y

to
Though indeed
to

said have not


?

#: debauched
"'
it
corrupted the adage, but

:
Ty Myl"
after setting forth Agamemnon,
as
or

Ty Thy ro5 dueiro"


;: good warfare, and Menelaus only as a
at
mi
|

19%
he

iritless,
# spearman makes the latter come
#
s

GT6
?

banquet the former, who was


of

Ayes.
to

unbidden
#
"

dy offering sacrifice and holding feast;


so

mi the worse
a
":

guest
of

better.


was the the
this my friend's answer, he told me, was:
|

iyadov Ms.
as
o

I am afraid mine, most likely,


that fits
t"

case
is
|

a
for
he

dolt


Greek not
your version, Socrates, but Homer'sa

'A'
Be

the banquet
of
c
:

to

oming unbidden scholar.


-
a

-
he

he dative pa)\6axs
Il.

xvii. 587 MevAaov brerpgas,


to

Y
*

trpos
|

8s

her
anoth'
Me".
form"
to


is

C
"X/Tris, and 408 airuaro,
ii.

othkoe Bohy dyados


5

87
PLATO

pa ov dyov ue

ri"
ivat 60ivny drc}\ntos. droMo
yjon,

dis
yd Wew oty duoMoygo drantos jkew,
5t God kek}\muvos.
D
dAA
B,

Te
Xviv &#m, pxopuvo 7p to

"
d
8ovXevo dueffa poijuev. GAAd iaopiev.

Tt

Towat drra abs. bn 8waMex0vtas ival.
Tv ov Xokptm avr Tros Tpooxovira Tv
vov kara Tiv 33dy Topeeoffat 5ToMetrpevo",

Tim eis
Kai Tepuvovros ke)eview "poival

r
Tpa
E6ev. of ti oikia 'Ay6a-
6

yevoffat

Ti
tev

|
vos, dvegyuvy karaXaudvew Tv 6-pav, kai

T.
&bn air6 uv yp eff's

of
yeMolov waffeiv.
datavrjoavra dyev

off
Tatd tuva voffew kat
d'AAou, kal kataAap Bvely jn uAAovtas
oi

kewto
Bettweiv. ev6's obv offs ieiv Tv 'Ayd6aova, 'Q,
6

eis

$val, 'Aptotmue, kaRv jicels tals ovy

eis
Bettvians: AAov ruvs veka #A6es, affs
6
el

dvaaMo,
oe

dis kal X6s &ntw iva kaAoatut


oix ols ieiv. Xokprn juiv Ts oft
T'

dAAd
dyes;
Kai yd, fin, ueTaotpehuevos ojapo do
Xokprm tuevow: etnov obv rt kal airs urd
XokpTovs jkout, k\ndels T' &ceivov Beijp ''
ti

8eltvov.
':' :
y,

*
Ka}\s pm, Trovov ov. dAAd To arty
oros;
,

-
kai

175 "Ottoffew uob dott eloniet dx}\d 6avudko


v

ars to ein.
O

kal

orclil, pm, Tat, hval Tv 'Aydflova,

''

Ti,

Spa Badham pa, pa


Tt
Ti

Mss.
*

.
.

.
:

.
.

88
|
WTO SYMPOSIUM

i"! "e, then,


5
pet' have your excuse quite ready
off

to
dyay 0..n, when

for

'
me; un
*
ji coming

to
oMoyjaw )70s b ring shall not own

I
on
*#ed, but only your invitation.

go
along together,

he
, / w e
remarked,

If
"po to two
*
f
0

:
6pxoplewo

in
there's one before another devising what
,

1
dM als".

are

off
say. Well, we go.
We

to
/ 46)),
8taleyffrds

he
m ! After some such conversation, told me, they

off.
mos "pog&o'/ Then Socrates, becoming absorbed

in
"

started
his

Tole"

by
/ e
own thoughts
the way, fell behind him
776/16W,

as
effeoffa w
they went; and when my

Ti"'.
friend began

to
ty poiqi & *
wait
for

he

go
# (l bade him

he
on
* / him

to
ahead. So
5
().

w
came
Th

olk
|

Agathon's house, and found the door open; where


:

in
he

foundhimself rather ridiculous position.


a

by
he
ty

'ya.
was met immediately
yPl

For
O
t

servant from

a
d'
w

jgavra within, who took him where the company was


::
*/

he

clining, and found them just about


A^

dyew jom

to
dine.
w
Ol
"
W

Agathon saw him" Ha,


*

5Ayfio", However,
as

as

soon
ey

he

g!'"
Aristodemus, cried, right welcome place

to

a
at
on
you came some other errand,
us

table with
If

"it
!

another time: only yesterday


off
to

went

I
invite you, but failed see you. But
it to

to

found
do

you not bring Socrates ?


forus
is

how he
Socrates, said, but
At

that turned back


o
I

sign him coming after me:


of

so

told them
I

myself had c