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ADVAITA-L GROUP DISCUSSIONS ON PITRUNA & PROGENY

See 350/813 of Shadupanishadbhashya

RangaRamanuja Muni-Bhashya on this MU Mantra: darsAkhya pUrnamAsAkhya-

AgrayanAkhya-ishtiviseshaatithisatkAra-aupAsanahoma-vaiswadeva-ananushthAne
SraddhAvaidhurye YathAsAstram ananushthAne Cha anushthitamapi agnihotrAdikarma tasya
sukrtaphalam sarvam saptapUrushaparyantam nAsayati ityartha:

Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:49 PM; from: Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u@gmail.com>

Namaste, The intention behind action is more important than action itself. In case of taking sanyAsa, the
intention is to leave all kAmya karma (result oriented karma with attitude of doership). The motivation
behind sanyAsa is to rise above karma kANDa (rites and rituals) and contemplate on Brahman with
abheda bhAvanA (non-dual approach).

Similarly, though chanting mantra OM is also a mental karma or kriyA, but the intention is not to keep
chanting. Intention is to calm down mind and rise above OM, to transcend samsAra and experience non-
dual samAdhi. The teachings of sanyAsa or GYAna mArga (path of knowledge) is first to become a
witness. GYAna mArga of gItA begins with chapter 13. The very nature of sAdhanA is to detach from
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anAtmA, while in any vedic ritual, this is not the case. Vedic karma-s are for inner purification of all
those who are in it's vicinity including the performer.

So the path (of sanyAsa) is to chant a mantra or contemplate and then the mantra or neti-neti continues
by itself due to constant practice. One becomes a witness of a mantra or neti-neti. This is moving from
effort to effortless. No effort can give GYAna. No amount of karma or kriyA can grant moksha. So one
has to move from effort to effortless. This is the path of sanyAsa in advaita. All actions, be it physical,
mental or any yogic kriyA-s are carried out in such a way that one moves from karma to akarma via
becoming a witness. When one is an observer, one cannot act and vice versa. Both cannot happen at a
same time. Our consciousness cannot be equally present in each state - as a witness and as a doer. It
cannot be in dream and waking at a same time. At times, only a pale shadow of other state is
experienced.

In advaita, staying rooted in brahman is the center of all actions.

Hence actions of any kind of karma kANDa, in my opinion cannot be compared with an act, in this case
sanyAsa, that is done to detach from anAtmA and rise above karma and so it's fruits.

We have to always remember that it is the intention that decides the direction or the path. One can chant
God's name for super natural powers, for bringing down healing and spiritual energies to whole
humanity and for moksha. Same God, same mantra, but intention decides the direction of sAdhanA
(meditation) and hence the result.

Hence knowing why we do it is important. Always try to find root cause and the final destination as non-
dual Brahman.

Regarding pitru-riNa, I had read in the book 'Hindu Dharma' that once every 15 days, a Brahmin has to
do tarpaNa for last two ancestors. I am not very good at karma kANDa, but Kanchi Paramacharya's
words are treated with high respect. Once a friend questioned me that we call our ancestors up to last 7
generations, but what if they have already taken birth in some place in some body? What happens in
such situation? I do not have an answer, but I think, Kanchi Paramacharya may have considered this
fact. Also he generally quotes from scriptures, but as I told you, I am not good at karma kANDa.

OM Sujal

Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:56 PM

Mundaka, yes, of course.

I don't read brahmajnana into this passage either, although now that you mention it, I am uncertain
whether taking sannyasa counts as a karma comparable to agnihotra that would involve these
other generations. What do you think?

The commentary I was reading is not Shankara's. In addition to disagreeing about how many
generations are involved (7 or 15), it also specifically mentions sharing in the (de)merit of agnihotra
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(non-?) performance, not the conferral of such. So there does seem to be disagreement on this point as
well.

Thanks, Gerald

to: Gerald Penn <gpenn@cs.toronto.edu>, "Praveen R. Bhat" <bhatpraveen@gmail.com>,

Shrinivas Gadkari sgadkari2001@yahoo.com ; cc: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta advaita-
l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org ; date: Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:58 PM; sub: Re: [Advaita-l] Pitru Rina and
progeny

Dear Sri Gerald Penn,

I think you meant Mundaka Up.1.2.3. and not Mandukya Up. Anyway Acharya Samkaras commentary
on this refers to the 3 generations of ancestors and 3 generations of progeny which total to 7 generations
if you include oneself. But these are SvAtmopakArA: (ie., conferrers of benefit) if one performs the
Vaidika Karmas like Darsa etc in the proper way. If not, those generations of people do not confer any
benefit. This is the intended meaning of the commentary (refer to Sitarama Sastris translation of the
commentary which is given below: or, it may be construed to mean that the three ancestors [the father,
the grand-father and the great-grand-father] and the three descendants [the son, tlie grandson and the
great grandson] connected by the offer of oblations do not confer any benefit on his soul by virtue of the
Agnihotra and the rest, performed as above stated.)

Thus this quote refers only to a Karmi and not BrahmajnAnis. The point is that the ordinary Jivas that
are Karmis are not alone but mutually dependant in their sojourn of evolution over several births and
several lokas (worlds like Bhu:, Bhuva: etc). They are inter-related and helping each other in this
(PindapradAnAdi-anugrahena)by the offer of oblations.

This links up to Sri Shrinivas Gadkaris and Sri Praveen Bhats discussion and Sri Praveen Bhats
Brhadaranyaka quote that Pitr loka is won by Karma.

Brahma JnAnis case is in a separate class and I am guilty of answering merely to your mention of
Brahma JnAni w/o following the full discussion from the beginning.

Regards, P.Bala Subrahmanyam

Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:28:14 +0530

From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian@gmail.com>

Dear Sri Bala Subrahmanyam, Have you come across any verse with these words:
... I vaguely remember this as a verse conveying the above sense of a
brahmajnani liberating ......
A friend pointed out another verse:

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---( )
regards vs

Thu, 22 Jun 2017 21:31:58 +0530

From: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli@gmail.com>

You could check Mundaka 3-2-9. Not sure if this satisfies your query. It does not speak of any specific
number of generations.
Regards

Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:59 AM

Thanks very much for this. I have found in Mandukya Up 1.2.3 a passage about the '7 worlds' along with
commentary that this refers not only to the vyahrtilokas but also to seven generations of ancestors and
seven generations of progeny. Best, Gerald

Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:08 AM

Dear Sri Gerald Penn, Actually what is told in Mundaka Sruti (3-2-9) is "Na Asya Abrahmavit Kule
Bhavati"

S.Sitarama Sastris translation of this published by G.A. Natesan & Co, Madras in 1905: Moreover in
the line of this knower, there will not be born any who knows not the Brahman.

Probably in several Smrtis, it must have been mentioned that a BrahmajnAni liberates several
generations of his forefathers.

In Dasama Skandha of Srimad BhAgavata PurAna, it is mentioned that SrI Krshna has immersed the
Nanda Vraja VAsis in "Brahmahrada"; ie., He bestowed on them the divine experience of Parabrahman.

In Srimad RAmAyana it is said that Sri RAma granted SantAna Lokas to JatAyu. SantAna Lokas means
the Jivas in those Lokas will be monotonically progressing forward in their spiritual sAdhana till they
attain Mukti.

Regards, P.Bala Subrahmanyam

Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:54:08 -0400 (EDT); From: Gerald Penn <gpenn@cs.toronto.edu>

However, there is a quote with regard to brahmajnAni (perhaps in muNdaka shruti I reckon) and if one
attains brahma jnana his next 7 generations would get liberation!!
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Thanks! This must be it. Does anyone know where specifically? (Or part of the Sanskrit so that I can
search for it) Regards, Gerald

Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:06:11 +0530; From: "Praveen R. Bhat" <bhatpraveen@gmail.com>

Namaste Shrinivasji,

We did not start our life in this loka from scratch. We took a lot from what was already in place when
we took birth. Everything that we took is a debt that we need to pack back.
True, but that is not the scriptural pitR RNa. It may be a good way to explain moderners though.

I remember having read in some upanishad - progeny entitles one for birth in this loka, karma makes
one eligible for pitru loka, and vidyA makes one eligible for deva loka.

Yes, Brihadaranyakopanishad mantra 1.5.16 says;

Kind rgds, --Praveen R. Bhat

Wed, 21 Jun 2017 05:24:32 +0000 (UTC) = 10:54 AM; From: Shrinivas Gadkari
<sgadkari2001@yahoo.com>

Namaste, We can arrive at reasonable solutions to such questions using our sat-asat viveka buddhi
cultivated via sAdhanA, and study and contemplation of vedic texts. (After all, shastra-s are nothing but
a compilation of such well thought solutions.)

We did not start our life in this loka from scratch. We took a lot from what was already in place when we
took birth. Everything that we took is a debt that we need to pack back.

1. A civilized human society consisting of (a large number of) good, caring, responsible humans was
critical to our well being. Best way to pay back this debt would be for you to be an equally good if not
better member of human society and bring up equally good children for continuation of the civilized
human society. (By these acts one retains the eligibility to be born again in this loka - as humans.)

2. In today's world we have taken a lot from science and technology. In whatever way we can contribute
to research and development in some field of science and technology will be a good way to pay back this
debt. Not everyone can do this directly, so indirect contributions should also be okay. (By these acts and
similar acts for advancement of human race/ society one becomes eligible for pitru loka).

3. There are many divine forces at work every moment to ensure a smooth functioning of life in this
loka. Study and sAdhanA to understand these forces (tattvas) and if possible participating in their divine
work via upAsaNa-s is a very high caliber karma to pay back debt. (By knowledge and upAsanA of
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divine vidyA-s one becomes eligible for deva loka and higher realms.)

I remember having read in some upanishad - progeny entitles one for birth in this loka, karma makes one
eligible for pitru loka, and vidyA makes one eligible for deva loka. What I have written above is my
understanding of this statement from the upanishad.

Regards, Shrinivas Gadkari