AHLUSSUNNAH VS ALI MIRZA

Can Engineer Muh:ammad Ali: Mirza: Of

Jhelum Explain this H:adith: Of Holy and
Noble Bukh:ari ,Book :59,Tradition No:3 ??
(B,59,03)
A QUESTIONNIRE
AHLUSSUNNAH

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Can Engineer Muh:ammad Ali: Mirza: Of Jhelum

Explain this H:adith: Of Holy and Noble Bukh:ari
,Book :59,Tradition No:3 ??












.
: Sahih al-Bukhari 3192

: Book 59, Hadith 3

In-book reference

: Vol. 4, Book 54, Hadith 414

USC-MSA web (English) reference

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/59/3

[For some Technical reasons we have copied the translation and the Original Arabic Text from the
above URL]

One day the Prophet ( )stood up amongst us for a long period and informed
us about the beginning of creation (and talked about everything in detail) till
he mentioned how the people of Paradise will enter their places and the
people of Hell will enter their places. Some remembered what he had said,
and some forgot it.
Note: WORDS IN BLACK COLOUR IN PARENTHESES ARE NOT THE TRANSLATION OF ANY ARABIC TEXT.

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[ 1]

THE CHALLANGE
Can Engineer Muh:ammad Ali: Mirza: Of Jhelum
Explain this H:adith: Of Holy and Noble Bukh:ari
,Book :59,Tradition No:3 ??

Introduction

Engineer Ali: Mirza: is a Heretic Heterodox who believes in Innovations and Heresies. Unfortunately he
holds such principles which compel him to hold heretic and heterodox believes making him a heretic
and a deviant.

It is found that he believes Cull Ilm Ma: Yaku:n Ilal Qiya:mah from a certain day in the life of Holy
Prophet {S:AVS}.

It may be the case that Engineer Ali: Mirza: denies such an ascription.

But this does shew that this is nothing except a Taqaiyah which he commits on regular bases.

Followers of the Heretic Engineer from Jhelum are requested to read and study some of the enquiries in
regard to a Tradition of H:adi:th: .

THE TRADITION

It is challenged that the Engineer of Jhelum is compelled to believe in the stated above belief.

If he does believe according to this compulsion then this proves that he exercises Taqaiyah in the case
he does not pronounce his belief.. If he deviates from this compulsion then there is Flaw [S-Q-M] AND
Inconsistency in his System. If he believes and accepts it then he is certainly a Heretic and commits
deliberate mockery when he calls himself the follower of S-l-f . In this case he is a heretic even according
to his former Teacher Zubair Ali: Zai the Semi Ahlul H:adi:th: .

1] The Tradition in apparent includeth each and every thing, each and every even who so ever small or
how so ever great from this day. Even each and every electron, quark, the unit of time, etc. So in this
case if the minutest particle ever Created by Divine Essence moveth in present or future , it is known to
the Holy Prophet according to the principles of the Engineer.On some what greater scale each and every
act of every Living Being from the smallest to the greatest , from the lowest to the highest, is known to

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Holy Prophet. From most Infidelic act to from most Faithful act, of each and every person is known to
Holy Prophet. This is what all believers of Ma: Ca:na Va Yacu:na believe and if the Engineer of Jhelum

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takes this tradition of Holy Bukh:a:ri ( ) in its General Form them Engineer must also accept the
compulsion since it is imperative from the generalized meaning.

The question does Engineer Ali: Mirza: accepts this belief which is stated above or not. He he accepts
then according to us he becomes a Heretic. Since such a belief is certainly a heresy and heterodoxy. But
if Engineer Ali: Mirza: of Jhelum says that he does not believe it this belief then it is asked that how he
particularizes the apparent General words of the tradition. Is there a particularizer [M-kh:s:-s:] of it. If so
then whether it be External [Kh:arji:] or interior [Da:khli:] . He must EXPLICITLY state the nature of the
Indicator [Q-ri:nah] which he presents as M-kh:s:-s: .

2] If he has any such particularizer then he must present the entire argument such that one can study
the reasonings and argumentations in support of the particularization.

3] If some one say that Holy Prophet Knoweth each and every act of every human being , even each and
every thought of every human being from this day to the last day of the world , argues in support of his
this heretical belief using this tradition, and the Engineer purports to reject this belief then he must
shew , how he refutes the argumentation of such a person from this Holy Tradition. We do believe that
the argumentation is Wrong [Ba:t:il] but we want to see how goes the Engineer refutes.Also we want to
observe that Does he use arguments similar to ours or he has his own arguments?. The system of the
Engineer is not original, he is a Borrower Suprema.

4] If some one says who knoweth what is the number of stars in the world, and there are three different
persons A,B,C.

A relpies: Only The Divine Essence Knoweth and no other Existent knoweth neither with Essential
[Dh:ati] Knowledge nor with Bestowed [Ata:ai] Knowledge.

B replies Both Divine Essence and the Apostle of Divine Essence know, but Divine Essence Knoweth by
Essential Knowledge and the Holy Apostle Knoweth by Bestowed Knowledge.

C replies It is Certain that Holy Divine Essence Knoweth Knoweth it , but it is uncertain whether Holy
Apostle knoweth it or doeth not know it.

Now we ask Engineer of Jhelum to state who is correct and who is wrong. Also one who so ever he may
be is wrong is a Blasphemer or not according to the Engineer of Jhelum City Known as Engineer Ali:
Mirza: .

5]

a) If some one asks who knoweth the act of each and every person after who were born after the earthy
life of Holy Prophet ceased.

Once again there are three persons A,B,C.

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They respond similar to the responses in Q5.

Now we ONCE AGAIN ask Engineer of Jhelum to state who is correct and who is wrong. Also one who
so ever he may be is wrong is a Blasphemer or not according to the Engineer of Jhelum City Known as
Engineer Ali: Mirza: .

b) Suppose that Some one says that what so ever is known to Divine Essence [Dh:a:tul Ba:ri:] is also
Known to Holy Prophet ; the Knowledge of both of them are Equal ; neither of them is greater than the
other and Neither of the two is less than the other, but the only difference is that the Divine Knowledge
is Essential [Dh:a:ti:] and the Knowledge the Holy Prophet is Bestowed [At:a:i] then the question is
whether one who say such a thing is Ka:fir or Not. If Ka:fir then Mushrik or not?

As Engineer Ali: Mirza: according to his own confession was a Barailavi for a large period, he at best
have disbelieved in the stated above belief yet he must have considered such a person as a Muslim and
an A:rif (Pl: Urfa:). So if he now declares this belief as Kufr and also he declare any one who does not
believe in this belief yet does not declare it as Kurf, then does he confess that he was not a Muslim for
this period of his life. If so then does he confess that he was not a Muslim them. (3)

Note : We are just asking questions about the Engineer and his present verdict/decision about his
person in past.

6] It is known that Engineer Ali: Mirza: remained Barailvi for a large part of his life. His Barailvi part of
life is larger then all other Non Barailvi parts of life at present.

We ask what was his belief during the Barailavi part of his life, and is it exactly the same during the
present time ot it is some how changed or modified. If there is some change then the initial and final
believes must be stated EXPLICITLY, and then he must state EXPLICITLY the Changes and the
Modifications; so that we may study the transformation of his belief if any and study whether he be
speaking the Truth or Taqaiyah. Also if his final belief is different from his initial belief them does he
consider his initial belief as Kufr or as wrong but not kufr. We want to read and study his believes and

deciede whether he be speaking truth or falsehood.( ) 4

7]We know that the Engineer Ali:Mirza: of Jhelum does believe that Holy Prophet Knoweth Ilm Al
Gh:aib. But we ask whether he includes Cull Ilm Ma: Ca:na Va Yacuna from the first day of the World
till the last day of the World in this Ilm Al Gh:aib or he does not? If he does not then Whether he
Includes Cull Ilm Ma Yacu:na from the stated day in the Tradition to the Last day of the World or
not. He is asked respectfully to state whether he makes an Exception of Cull Ilm Ma: Ca:na: Va Yacu:nu
Ilal Yaumil Q-ya:mah (or for Cull Ilm Ma Yacu:nu Ila: Yaumil Q-ya:mah ) or Not. If he does makes an
Exception (for any one of the two stated above) then the question is whether the Exception is a
Possible Exception or a Necessary Exception????

Also he is requested that he must state the differences between Particularization [Takh:s:i:s:] and
Exeption[Istath:na(y)].

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Also it is requested to state that he must state Explicitly does he take the word WORLD (Dunya) in the
meaning of Planet Earth or in the meaning of the Entire Universe ?

8]

a)What does Engineer say about a Person who says Holy Prophet Does Possess the Attribute of Cull
Ilma Ma Ca:na: Va Yacu:nu, but this Attribute is not Ilm Al Gh:aib but just Ilm, and Ilm Al Gh:aib is

some thing else ????

b] Does the Engineer differentiate among ILM LA D-NNI, ILM AL GH:AIB and Cull Ilm Ma:
Ca:na Va Yacu:nu? If so then he is asked to differentiate among them.

9] The Engineer does use the term Dh:a:ti [Essential] and At:a:i: [Bestowed], in case of Il Al Gh:aib.

We ask a single H:adi:th: which declares EXPLICITLY , which declare one who believes that Holy Prophet
has the Essential Knowledge of Gh:aib is Kufr [Cufr], he can not present a single H:adi:th: then he can
say that there is an Ijaa: of Kufr against such a belief. If so then he must state the nature of Ijam: and
also when it was established with proper reference. Note he must not refer to any Barailavi book, rather
we want Explicit references before 1856 CE the Solar Georgian year when the founder of Barailavi cult
was born in. He is asked to answer with the Excogitative Answer [Al Java:b At Tah:qi:qi:] and not with
Counter Answer [Aljava:b Al Ilza:mi] which {he reterms as satirical word Phakki which is so
contemptuous term that is even disliked to be quoted in general}.

10] Did Holy Prophet use to have an Attention [Tavajjuh] at an Event to Know it or Not. If some one
believes that such an Ability was Bestowed to Holy Prophet By Divine Essence then Is this belief a Shirk
or a Kufr or both or neither of the two? What is the nature of the Knowledge acquired by this
Controversial Attribute , is it included in Ilm Al Gh:aib or not?

Also does Engineer Ali: Mirza: differentiate between Kufr and Shirk? If so then what it is? If there are
more then one differences according to the Engineer then what they are?

Is it Possible that a person believes in a belief of Kufr and still remain a Muslim, and does not become a
Ka:fir? If so then he is requested to state atleast two examples of such believes.

Is it Possible that a person believes in a belief of Shirk and still remain a Muslim, and does not
become a Ka:fir???? If so then he is requested to state atleast two examples of such believes.

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11] Engineer Ali: Mirza: must have asked Zubair Ali: Zai about this tradition of Noble Bukh:a:ri: (5), if
so then what as his opinion about this tradition. The sentences spoken by Zubair [Semi Ahlul H:adith:]
may please be reported correctly .

An excuse that no question about this tradition(6) was asked is highly unlikely, when the Engineer
asked about subtle problems how can he miss this major one. So this apology cannot be accepted if
presented.

12] If the Engineer from Jhelum does believe that Holy Prophet does have the Knowledge of either
Cull Ilm Ma: Ca:na Va Yacunu Ila: Yaumil Q-ya:mah or Ilm Ma Yacunu Ila: Yaumil Q-ya:mah then
what objection does he have when some one says Holy Prophet Not Only Knoweth but Observes each
and every even of the future with in the stated above limit. If he says that this is either Kufr or Shirk or
mere a Heresy then why the said Knowledge is the same. If a thing is Shirk or Heresy in one Attribute
Observing/Watching then Why it is none of them

in an other Attribute Knowledge.

Additionally if he disbelieves in

Cull Ilm Ma: Ca:na Va Ycu:nu Ilal Yaumil Q-ya:mah

then does his definition of the term Ilm Al Gh:aib EXCLUDE this ILM i.e Cull Ilm Ma:
Ca:na Va Ycu:nu Ilal Yaumil Q-ya:mah ?????
If so then it is asked why he does not say it explicitly? Or he wants to deceive
others. If not so then why he does not say it explicitly? If he was said some where
explicitly in any one of his lectures then he is requested to state the proper
reference to this lecture so that it may be decieded whether he is telling the truth
or not.

( Summarizing this it may be stated as follow: If he believes in the belief that Holy Prophet possessed
the Attribute of Ilm Al Gh:aib which thing prevent the Engineer from believing that the Holy Prophet is
attributed by the Attribute of H:-d:u:r Va N-z:u:r (Omnipresence). )

Also he is requested to explain the tradition

keeping all the questions in this questionnaire in
mind.

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NOTE : We believe that Ilm Al Gh:aib is the Attribute of ALL-H and It is an

Incommunicable Attribute of Divine Essence ALL-H , so that it is Absolute Impossible
[Absolutly Impossible] for any Creation in both of its Supposed types Essential and
Bestowed. Similarly we do believe that Cull Ilm Ma Ca:na: Va Yacu:na is not bestowed
to any Creation who so ever the Creation be. But we ask such questions to expose the
Conspiracy Engineered By The Engineer.

(1)There is a similar tradition in Holy Muslim.

Abu Zaid (viz. Amr b. Akhtab) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) led us
in the dawn prayer and then mounted the pulpit and addressed us until it was (time for
the) noon prayer. He then came down the pulpit and observed prayer and then again
mounted the pulpit and again addressed us until it was time for the 'Asr prayer. He then
again came down and observed the prayer and again mointed the pulpit and addressed us
until the sun was set and he informed (about) everything (pertaining to turmoil) that lay hidden in
the past and what lies in (the womb of) the future and the most learned amongst us is one who
remembers them well .

The words in Parentheses in red may not be translation of Any Arabic Text.

Hadith No: 6913, Sahih Muslim Book 41

(2) Also from the Tradition of Holy Muslim.
(3) To say that a belief is incorrect and wrong is one thing
and to say that a belief is NOT Kufr is an other thing.
Ah:mad Rad:a of Bans Baraily has confessed that he does
not believe in the belief the Knowledge of Divine
Essence and the Knowledge of Holy Prophet are
Exactly Equal and the ONLY difference between
them is that the Divine Knowledge is Essential
and the Knowledge of Holy Prophet (Prophetic
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Knowledge) is Bestowed , but he does not declare

this belief as Kufr. But other consider that even a shadow of
doubt [Shak] on the Kufr of this belief is a Kufr (Man
Shakka Fi Kufri Ha:dh:a Al Itaqa:d Fa Qad Kafara).
Now we ask the Engineer what is his belief about about this
belief. Does he believe that What so ever Divine Essence
Knoweth ,Holy Prophet also Knoweth but the Divine
Knowledge is Essential and Knowledge of Holy Prophet is
Bestowed ?
If not then the question is whether this stated belief is Kufr (
according to him ) or not????

If the answer is affirmative then the question is Does he

consider such a person who doubts in the kufr of this belief
is a Kafir or Not ?? If the answer is affirmative then
does the Engineer of Jhelum accepts that he was not a
Muslim of the period when he was the follower of One who
did not consider this belief as Kufr??
(4)This question is not in regard to the equality of the Divine
Knowledge and Knowledge of Holy Prophet as it was in
question 5b, but in regard to Cull Ilm Ma: Ka:na Va
Yacu:nu Ila: Yumil Q-ya:mah or Cull Ilm Ma Yacu:nu
Ila: Yaumil Q-ya:mah, which is bestowed and less than the
Divine Knowledge as according to the believers of this belief.
So one must not confuse the two different questions.
(5) Also that of Noble Muslim, referred in footnote 1.
(6) Also that of Noble Muslim, referred in footnote 1.
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NOTE : WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE OF ANY DISTORTION OF MEANING DUE TO TYPING ERRORS. IF ANY
SUCH ERROR IS FOUND WE SHALL UPLOAD A CORRECT VERSION BUT THE SHALL NOT DELETE THE
INCORRECT VERSION IF ANY , FOR REFERENCE PURPOSE.

Special thanks to Sayid Z:ahi:r Naqvi:

TO THE FOLLOWERS OF THE ENGINEER ALI: MIRZA:

Engineer Ali: Mirza: is a person with out any principle. He declares all the great Sunni scholars as
committers of Of Kufr. But in heart he himself is a Heretic. Initially he followed Ah:mad Rad:a Sha:h of
Bans Baraili [Latitude of Bans Baraili : 28.375694,Longitude of Bans Baraili : 79.435959 ],

But he latter became even his opponent. But he still hold some of his believes
and rejects some of his believes.

How ever as Mirza: of Jhelum is a principleless person he some times is

unable to provide a Proper Reply [Excogitative Reply] so he turns to Counter
Question {a form of Reply reply which is actually a dilemma ] which he
renames as a Satiric term Phakki. But when he used this form of answering
this means that he does not have a Proper Reply.

The best way to know whether he does have a proper reply or does
not have a proper reply is to ask him to answer properly with out
with out the dilemmaic replies. If he fails to do so then it means
that he does not have a proper reply. In this case he often requires
to know the sect or the cult of the questioners . So the best way to
deal with him is not to inform him about your sect or cult . Just
keep on asking questions. How ever the questions must be rational
and logical. The must not be incorrect.

After hearing several lectures it ha become clear that when he does

not have any Proper Reply He uses this Method.

This method was used by Zubair Ali: Zai. It was latter adopted by
his former telephonic student the Engineer Of Jhelum.

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Engineer Ali Mirza:and his Followers Jhelamits are exposed so

many times , so do not follow him.

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