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JOINT HEARING
H, R, 9533
8, 3 612,
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ALDItBON REPORWIT COQANY NAA83406
306 Ntntk fInl,N. W., 84-407
Wraiagtbn 4. D. a.
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TABLE OF CONTENTS
House of Re resentatives
P A G E
t~~.
HR 9 33 - S. 3612
House of Representatives,
- Washington, D. C.
presiding.
Affairs.
mittee of the House and Senate will now convene for the
I~sumalIR
agaugum emin inmIl~ usagmlluame BWIB~WIIB Ill amEImumuminum m1n
to provide for rehabilitation of the Sioux Indiana of the
Standing Rock in North and South Dakota and for other pur-
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poses.
and S. 3612.
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Government.
direct damages; that is, the loss of land and property valued
at $1,575,000.
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Sby the construction and operation of the Oahe Dam and Reservoir
Swas introduced.
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I thank you.
The total for the indirect damage as asked for in the bill
$5,518,013.
correspond
that be correct?
where?
hold?
committee?
That was for all trust land nd, of course, would have to be
the landowner.
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Engineers is for the land only, and any of the landowners that
Re r
/ do not want to accept this figure that we arrived at don't have
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Dakota.
I statement.
line 3:
have
v rights and privileges with respect to the pur-
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Reservoir."
ing committee, too, and we have talked on all this for maybe
You know, when the water comes up, floods, it may go down
but not that somebody else may come in and lease it and take
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be able to bring your stock and water your stock down to the
you?
they can keep people from violating the law or ruining the
dam and all that sort of thing, but what you are interested in
Thief?
by.
forth.
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benches, peppermint plant used for tea, and also herbs and
I think you.
Dakota.
Is Mr. Gipps.
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and home life of the people not only in the taking area but also
supporting basis.
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time when we could block that out, let us say as near solid
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I million. The first item we have concerning the rehabilitation
in a matter of a few cents per person, per acre, and the ad-
Through the past years, we have had too few who have gone
and shortly before I left home, there were only t:. pledges made
on to school.
Once they have gotten the money api gotten the education, it is
very hard to collect unless they should come directly back and
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grant and that they would not have a debt hanging over their
There are a lot of these boys and girls who are past school
that are not sanitary, they are inefficient, they are too small.
little log houses, one room, dirt floors, maybe one window.
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Now there was a time when they built a few homes out there
for a few, but they were very few. If we are going to be able
some day to take our place in American society and be free from
have people hauling water with wheelbarrows from one end of the
let alone in the country. We have many of our people who live
in the country, come to town maybe twice a week for the pur-
we have it separately.
needy people.
in their homes.
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in our reservation. There are only one or two, I believe, that
no railroads.
interested in agriculture.
up to 30.
50 head. But the program is too small for the amount of live-
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and so forth.
$250,000. We find too many of our people at home who are not
educating uo Indians, there was one thing they forgot; that was,
to teach us how to live and get along with the white man. So
payment.
are moved out of the taking area, as Mr. Case mentioned here
this morning, they are unfortunate in a way and yet they are
But when they are moving out, they are going to disrupt
'11-0-0 ow
whole reservation. Wo have gotten to the point now where we
feel that the Government does not have too much jurisdiction over
will lease you so and sos land without consent of the owner."
taking area because they are going to go out and move back, they
are not going to move too far back, they are going to move right
might even take into consideration the severance, the things that
are being taken away, say, in timber, and although that is in-
cluded, they are going to pay us for it, and what it would
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would be white.
third Indian?
Mr, Gipp. No, sir. Now that is not including the Indian
agency.
Mr. Grorud. The Indians live the same as the white people,
Mr. Gipp. No, they don't. They live there, but not the
same.
it not?
consolidated area there are less white than there are in the
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fractionated lands?
* my opinion.
or that sort of business, what they will need to do it, and how
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be rejected.
good manager?
council feel that that probably would be the way to handle it?
Sit not?
along with the Indian Bureau for awhile, but if they are with-
you would not need the Indian Department any more, is that
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correct?
Mr. Gipp. We might oven say if this thing had been done
20 years ago, maybe you could withdraw your Indian Bureau today
the record, Mr. Berry, this will tell more than I can say, I
believe.
Thank you.
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gentlemen?
1s.
fils. If not, you can be excused.
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Spencer?
located there?
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""" has been agreed upon and I also want to point out further that
the settlement.
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program.
for coming.
Indians?
removed?
have to get their meat somewhere else and their fuel somewhere
else.
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this la;Z?
f
Mr. Spencer. There are probably two wells beingdrilled ^-
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to this bill.
I was sent here and elected by the people at large. The people
from Tho South Dakota portion, that ie Mr. Berry's district, but
brakpaasKHaislaaeaffiici^^
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remarks are made like that I make a big hill out of a small
rehabilitation bill and Mr. Blackhoop and his bunch were all
you said, "Josephine, I thought you were always for the people,
Mrs. Kelly. We have been waiting for years and years for
the Indian BureAu to help us. Instead of that, they are build-
closed doors.
everything?
like to sit in there and listen, too. They don't like to hear
37
of this bill at the present time because they are not satis-
lied.
W Bull Head?
Redfish was supposed to bring them. These are from tne Shield
Bull Head?
Bull Head and ask you to come down here and represent them?
Bull Head and tell them what a crook I was and not to vote
for me?
together,
were pretty much upset over that bill that was introduced.
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the reason?
they want?
payment?
are just bearly existing. That is all the Indians are doing.
money, they say, "You can't have your money today, you have to
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that they can make a living for themselves and not be in the same
condition that these people that you are talking about are in.
States when the Indians are living the way they are now. It
Mrs. Kelly. I know they are nt, but The idea is Indians
in the Bull Head district and any other district, are against
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this?
water.
the Indian reservation. When that was put out we had the
there and the Indians are going to get water free." That is
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been waiting for it for years and years. Now this bill comes
this?
Grorud knows that. When I got the water pipe down to my house,
once in a while the water company would turn it off. "You are
an Iudian. You can't have the water unless you pay so much and
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Fort Yates.
quarters where I did enjoy a bath tub and all those sanitary
things. I don 't know what you call them, but anyway, I
the water line. He said he couldn ' t; I would have to see the
Then I never had the water. V kept hauling water just the
same with all the pipe I had bought, we hauled water. Then on
the last night of December, I had a big fire and my whole house
with it. If I had had water I could have put out that fire.
When this come up, Mr. Spencertold me, I went to see him,
do business?
Mrs. Kelly. Then when they came home this bill came up.
and they really did not like it. They did not like the proposed
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rehabilitation bill.
for, they have their school loans and so forth. Didn't the
A
Iqu government in their treaty say "We will educate your children",
and so forth?
suppose.
Now, under the law they can do exactly the same with the
Indians that they can with the white people and they will
million and a half dollars. That is all. Under thto law they
can do that.
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Law 870?
government that has been growing as you say all the time.
Maybe we can cut them down a little bit. That is the pur-
have to come right back to the reservation the day after they
that have beendoing this for )yars. They have gone off the
reservation and made the best living and so forth. We have one
think the Indian Bureau helped him at all. Maybe they helped
i to teach the Indians all the time because the Indian Bureau
comes out here all the time and they say, "We have to teach
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ness.
Mrs. Kelly. I am. You hear all the bad things I say
loans, Josephine?
Mrs. Kelly. You should meet with the Indians and ask
them. You have a lot of South Dakota Indians that are real
smart.
S ION bw- w_
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Mrs. Kelly. They are so smart they have him here for
their representative and they want him to come back down there
W and consult them before they put out a bill like this. That
Did I give you that peti ion? You can file it. If we
had the money we could have gotten more names than that.
along, too, but they are not here. If they have a chance to be
heard --
went over there. There was a little bit of a room Just the size
of a bed and maybe not enough to walk around the bed, five
children, didn't have a thing to eat and they had a big rain
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Those are the conditions that exist all over the reser-
vation; those are the things I have been saying for years, Mr.
money galore for their Indian Bureau because they say they are
worker.
fare worker he absolutely refused to give that man his money for
his children and that man got up and honest to goodness I thought
That is the feeling they get into the Indians with their
rules and regulations. I felt bad when that man got so mad
that he almost nit the welfare worker, and the money for the
wailfare.
at this time?
lluql-,_---c~9 ~ar RI
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ant Mrs. Anele are here. Mr. Loon is here. Be can talk to you.
offer? What do you want, just pay for your land and divide it
up per capita?
when there are several Indians back home that want to have
Mr. Grorud. You have two or three homes there, have you
not?
in smoke.
one.
w
Mr. Grorud. Why is it that the Indians don't have the
Mrs. Kelly. Just like I told you, Mr. Lippard always had
connect me up with the water they put me off until I had this
Mrs. Kelly. I did when you were there. But when the
agency fire truck came down to my house that was not in any
working.
were caused by your not having been hooked up with water, cer-
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the same I had presence of mind and so forth to try to put
was taking it out of there, the Christmas tree out of the house,
we had one of those new fandangled locks, why the door closed
and we will try to finish and hear the other witnesses tomorrow
afternoon.
posed to be here.