10/10/2017 MATERIALSA36ASME(mechanical)CodeIssuesEngTips

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MATERIALSA36 2

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ISITPOSSIBLETOMANUFACTUREANENTIREVESSEL(SHELLANDHEADS)ACCORDINGTOASMEVIIIDIVIUSINGASMESA36MATERIAL?ORITMAYBEUSEDONLYFORSTRUCTURAL
PURPOSESUCHASLEGS,LUGS,SUPPORT AROTHERATTACHMENTS?

THANKyOUFORTHEHELP.

REGARDS

Review UCS6(ASMESectionVIII,Div1).

Onlyifitisavesselforlessthan15psig.
SA36isofweldablequality.I.e.youcanconnectittoavessel.Itcannotbepressurecontaining.

Bsly,hasthisbeenchangedrecently?My2004editionofSVIIID1permitsSA36althoughwithsomerestrictionsonserviceandthickness.

Regards,

Mike

IbelievethatSA36isquitecommonlyusedforvesselwork ,althoughtherearesomelimitations.Ifthicknessissignificant,itwillgenerallybemoreeconomicaltousesomeothermaterial.

Yes,withlimitationsgiveninPar .UCS6.MauroGonzaga

sa36isthemostcommoninviii1forpvconstruction

GenB:Thatisscary!

Idon'tknowthatistheMOSTcommon,butcertainlycommon.IfthesizeandpressureratingofthevesselpermitSA36,Iimaginemostmanufacturers woulduseit.Dittoonatmospheric
APItanks.AndIdon'tknowwhythatwouldbescary.

JStephen:

GuessIhavejustseentomanyqualityproblemsintheuseofastructuralsteelinavesselapplication.

Sometimesitwillnotmatter,perUCS6,butIdonotagreethatitismostcommonforvesselapplication.

Cheaperisnotalwayscheapest.IcouldtellyouanumberofpoorresultstoriesforA36butwouldneedanewpage.

INMHO:Angle,channel,nonpressure,its...OK,butforanythingelse...becareful.

Asanengineerwhodirectlyspecifiedorwasinvolvedinspecifyingmaterialsforwellover1000pressurevesselsforuseinthepetrochemicalandpowerindustries,Icanonlythinkofoneor
twowhichwasspecifedasbeingmanufacturedfromSA36.

Asanoldsteelmaker,IcanattesttothedowngradingofmanyheatsofothersteelsintoA36,whichwasthe"catchall"fordowngrades.Inthepast,theliklihoodoflaminationsinA36plate
wasquitehigh,andthetoughnessofthematerialwasespeciallylowinthedowngradedheats.

SA516grade70wouldbeabetterchoiceandismostcommonlyused

Icanonlyassumethatthepressurevesselcommitteesdisagreewiththatassessment.NotethatA36doesuselowerallowablestresses,anddoeshavedifferenttreatmentfornotch
toughnessthanA51670.SowhileamillmightdowngradeabatchofA51670intoA36,itwouldn'tbedesignedlikeitwasstillA51670,either.Forthatmatter,amillcoulddowngradesome
higherstrengthplateintoA51670,butthatwouldn'tbeareasontoavoidA51670inuse.Intheapplications I'mfamiliarwith,I'mnotawareofanyqualityproblemswithA36
specifically.I'veseensimilarstatementsmadeonUSvsdomesticplate,andhaven'treallyseenatrendthere,either.

Astowhichisactuallymostcommon,Ithinkthatwouldhavetodependontheexperience oftheuser.Irecalltalkingtoonevesselfabricatorthatmadevirtuallyalltheirvesselsfrom
pipe.Orifyou'reusinganythingmuchover1/2"or3/8",it'sgoingtobemoreeconomicaltouseA51670orsomeothermaterialanyway,becauseofthehigherallowables.F&Dheadsare
commonlystockedinA51670,andmayormaynotbeavailableinA36.I'llbethalfofalltheASMEvesselsinexistenceareaircompressortanksorpropanetanks,andthatwouldcertainly
skewthestatisticstowhateverthosepeopleuse.

Bytheway,Irecentlysawalittlealuminumairtankforsale(pressurizeit,thenuseittoairuptiresmaybe5or10gallons).Boldlystenciledonitwas"DoNotDrop".That,tome,isscary.

IJStephen,
Withregardtoyourstatement,"Icanonlyassumethatthepressurevesselcommitteedisagree[s]withthatassessment",Ithinknot,notingthefurtherlimitationsputonitsuserelativetothat
ofSA516,SA285,SA515(tonamebutafew)andothercarbonsteels.ASMESectionIwillnotpermitSA36plateinvesselorboilerconstruction .ASMEVIIIrestrictsitsusetoamaximum
tempof650FandsimilarrestrictionsareinvokedinbothASMEB31.3andB31.1pipingcodes.Onthecontrary,ASMEcommitteeshavebeenfullyawareofthelimitationsofSA36andhave
madeappropriateprovisions.

Stan,mypointisthatyouandsomeothersseemtobesayingthatSA36shouldnotbeusedevenwithinthoserestrictions,whereasthecommitteesallowittobeusedwithinthose
restrictions.IfIunderstandyouanddeanccorrectly,you'dbeconsiderablymorerestrictivethanthecodeisontheuseofSA36.IE,viewingavesseldesignedandconstructed100%within
thecodeas"scary"iscertainlynotwhatthecodewritersarethinking.

JStephen:

IhavenoissuewithwhatyouaresayingandiftheCodeallowsamaterialandsomeonewantstobuild...sobeit.

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10/10/2017 MATERIALSA36ASME(mechanical)CodeIssuesEngTips

OvertheyearsIhaveseenanumberofproblemswithA36inPV use,,,,Ijustthinktherearebetterchoices.

"Cheap"isnotalwaysthebestanswer.Pay upfrontorpayinback...nothingisfree.

JStephen,
Iechodeanc'slastcommentsandaddthatifonepurchasesSA36correctly,youcanobtainSA36withqualityequivalenttoSA515orSA516orofslightlylesserqualitythatwillcertainly
meetdesign/safetyrequirementsforairreceiversandpropane/LPGbottles,etc.withoutaddingtomanufacturingwoes.

IwasalsopointingoutthatifoneintendstouseSA36invessel/heatexchangerconstructionforthepetrochemicalandpowerindustries,oneshouldthinkagain.

Guys,italldependsinwhatthesteelisusedfor,
smallairPVaremadewithSA36Codelegaland1,000'softhem
sotheyaresafe.

Iamnotsurewhyanybodywouldliketorisktheuseofquestionablequalitymaterialonvessels.
ThementionedUCS6(b)(1)suggeststhatthevesselmayleak.IagreethatSA36maymeettheSA516strengthbutalsoitmaynot.Lotteryorrussianroulette?Idon'twantitinmyvessels.

PuttingHumanFactorBackinEngineering

Itisn'tintendedasanequivalentsubstituteforSA51670.Itdoesn'tneedtomeettheSA51670strengthrequirements,itneedstomeettheSA36strengthrequirements.SA36isa
separateitemwithspecifiedallowablestresses.

YoumightnotethatthelowergradesofSA516won'tnecessarilymeettheSA36strengthrequirements,either.That'snotareasontoavoidthem,justdifferentmaterialsfordifferent
applications.

Ifyou'reinthepetroleumbusiness(asIjudgebyyourname),youprobablyalreadyhaveacresofSA36plateinserviceinyouratmospherictanks.

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