Research by Abul Layth

www.seekingilm.com

The following is for our brother Yusuf Khattab. He asked that I compile some
proofs and statements regarding the topic of whether the hands should be placed before
the knees or the knees before the hands when going down for sajdah (prostration). This
issue, in my view, is not a serious issue – but some pseudo-salafis, who cannot
understand disagreement, tend to bash the Hanābilah for their stance.

The established opinion of the Hanābilah is that the knees should go down before
the hands. Ibn Qudāmah says in his “Al-Muqni‟”,

“…One places his knees (on the ground), then his hands, then his forehead, then
nose…” [Page 29 of Al Muqni‟ of Dār Al Kutub Al „Ilmiyyah]

He also mentioned that in Al-„Umdah saying,

“…And the first that is placed upon the earth is the knees, the one‟s hands then
one‟s forehead and nose…”

Imām Bahā‟ud-Dīn Al Maqdisī states,

“This is due to what is reported by Wā‟il ibn Hujr who stated, “When Rasūlullah
(Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam) would go down for Sajdah, he would place his
knees before his hands, and when he would raise (from sajdah), he would lift his
hands before kness.” Reported by Abū Dāwud [end quote]

[page 73 of Dārus-salām‟s print]

Imām Al-Hajjāwī mentions in his Zād Al Mustaqni‟,

“One then prostrates upon seven body parts; feet, then his knees, then his hands,
then his forehead with his nose..”

Imām Al Bahūtī states in his Kash-shāf Al Qinā‟ explaining the words of Al-Iqnā‟ of
Imām Al Hajjāwī, ((…Then he places his knees (on the ground) then his hands…))

“Due to what is reported by Wā‟il ibn Hujr who said, „I saw the Nabi (Sallallāhu
'alayhi wa Sallam), when going down for sajdah placing his knees before his
hands. When he would rise (from sajdah), he would lift his hands before his
 knees.‟ It is reported by An-Nasā‟ī, Ibn Mājah, and At-Tirmithī. Who said;
“Hasan Gharīb, and I do not know of anyone who reported it except Sharīk, and
acting upon it is established with many of them (i.e. scholars).” It is reported by
Abū Dāwūd with a Jayyid Isnād from other than the way of Sharīk. Also, it is
because it is gentler for the one praying, and good form. Wa Ra‟a Al-„Ayn. As for
the hadīth of Abu Hurayrah that is Marfu‟ ((When one of you goes down for
prostration, let him place his hands before his knees, not going down like the
camel does.)) It is reported by Ahmad, Abū Dāwūd, An-Nasā‟ī. Al-Khattābī
states, “The Hadīth of Wā‟il is more authentic.” And Al-Hākim said, “It is upon
the conditions of Imām Muslim.” And assuming that they are both equal in
strength, then it is Mansūkh (abrogated). This is due to what is reported by Ibn
Khuzaymah in his Sahīh from Abī Sa‟īd ((We used to place our hands before our
knees, then we were commanded to place our knees before our hands)). However,
this is from the report of Yahyā ibn Salamah ibn Kuhayl. And Ibn Ma‟īn and
Bukhārī spoke (ill) of him.”

[end quote from Imām Al Bahūtī in his Kash-shāf Vol. #1 Page 350]

This is some of the proofs used be the Hanbalī forefathers to deduce this opinion.
In defense of their opinion I shall, inshā‟Allāh, show the validity of such an opinion in
hopes that some of the pseudo-salafists will open their minds and realize the validity of
the ikhtilāf regarding this fiqh issue. My main hope is to help the Hanābilah and those
who maintain this opinion to fight off the harsh attacks of the Al-Albaanite clique and
give them support through proofs.

Hadīth of Wā‟il ibn Hujr (Radhiya Allāhu 'Anhu)

‫ٌُٔ‏‏‬ َ ‫اا َح َّذثََُا‏‏‏يَ ِزي ُذ‏ت ٍُْ‏َْاس‬ ‫َح َّذثََُا‏‏ ْان َح َس ٍُ‏ت ٍُْ‏ َعهِ ٍّي‏‏ َٔ ُح َسي ٍُْ‏ت ٍُْ‏ ِعي َسى‏‏‏ َ َ ‏‬
‫ٍْ حُجْ ٍش‏‏‬ ‫ة‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏أَتِي ِّ‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏ َٔااِ ِم‏ت ِ‏‬ ٍ ‫اص ِى‏ت ٍِْ‏ ُكهَ ْي‬ ِ ‫ك‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏ َع‬ ٌ ‫‏أَ ْخثَ َشََا‏‏‏ َش ِشي‬
‫ظ َ‏ ُس ْكثَ َ ْي ِ‏ّ َث َ‏‬
ّ‫ْم يَ َذ ْي ِ‏‬ َ ‫‏ٔ َسهَّ َى‏‏ ِ َرا‏ َس َج َذ‬
َ ٔ‫‏‬ َ ِّ ‫ى‏َّللاُ‏ َعهَ ْي‬َّ َّ‫صه‬ َ ‫ْت‏انَُّثِ َّي‏‏‬ ُ ‫ال‏ َسأَي‬ َ َ‫‏‬
ّ‫ْم ُس ْكثَ َ ْي ِ‏‬ ‫‏س َ َ‏ يَ َذ ْي ِ‏ّ َث َ‏‬
َ ‫ط‬ َ َََٓ‫َٔ ِ َرا‏‬

Al-Hasan ibn „Alī>>Husayn ibn Īsā>>Yazīd ibn Hārūn>>Sharīk>>‟Āsim ibn

Kulayb>>His father>>from Wā‟il ibn Hujr saying I saw the Nabi (Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa
Sallam) when going down for Sajdah, placing his knees before his hands, and when he
raising (from sajdah), he would lift his hands before his knees.”1

1
Reported by Ad-Dārimī, Abū Dāwud (and this is his wording), At-Tirmithī, An-Nasā‟ī, Ibn Mājah, at-
Tahāwī in Sharh Ma‟ānī Al-Āthār 1/255, Ad-Dāraqutni, Bayhaqī all from Sharīk from „Asim from his
father from Wā‟il. At-Tirmithī stated, “Hasan Gharīb, and I do not know of anyone other than Sharīk
reporting it.”
Even though Imām At-Tirmithī (rahimahullah) admitted to it being gharīb (in his view)
he still graded it hasan.

The argument of some of our opponents is that Sharīk is the only one who reported this
wording from „Āsim ibn Kulayb. Our response is;

1) Sharīk is thiqah. He was declared such by the Imāms of Hadīth, Ahmad ibn
Hanbal and Yahyā ibn Ma‟īn. An-Nasā‟ī stated, “there is nothing wrong with
him.” Ibrāhīm Al Harbī stated, “He was thiqah!”

2) Sharīk is strong in the hadīth he reports from the people of Kūfah. Ibn Al
Mubārak stated, “Sharīk is the most knowledgeable in the hadīth of the Kufans
from Sufyān Ath-Thawrī.” The one who he is reporting from, „Asim ibn Kulayb
is Kufan.

3) Al-Hāfith Shu‟ayb Al Arnā‟ūt and Dr. „Awwād declared him, “Sadūq Hasan Al
Hadīth when there are follow up reports.” [Tahrīr Taqrīb At-Tahthīb]

4) There are Shāhid reports for this narration. This was alluded to by Imām Al
Bahūtī when he stated, “It is reported by Abū Dāwūd with a Jayyid Isnād from
other than the way of Sharīk.”

Note that I am not denying Jarh (criticism) upon Sharīk. Rather I am simply saying this
is the Hanbalī position upon him.

Abū Dāwūd reports;

‫ال‏‏ َح َّذثََُا‏‏‏َْ ًَّا ٌو‏‏ َح َّذثََُا‏‏‏‬ٍ َُْٓ ‫ٍْ ِي‬ ‫َح َّذثََُا‏‏‏ ُي َح ًَّ ُذ‏ت ٍُْ‏ َي ْع ًَ ٍش‏‏ َح َّذثََُا‏‏‏ َحجَّااُ‏ت ُ‏‬
‫صهَّى‏‬َ ‫‏ٔااِ ٍم‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏أَتِي ِ‏ّ‏‏أَ ٌَّ‏انَُّثِ َّي‏‏‬ َ ٍِْ ‫َّاس‏ت‬ ْ ‫ُحا َدجَ‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏ َع ْث ِذ‬
ِ ‫‏ان َجث‬ َ ‫ٍْ ج‬ ‫‏ ُي َح ًَّ ُذ‏ت ُ‏‬
‫‏ٔ َ َع َا ُس ْكثَ َا ‏ُِ ِنَى‏‬ َ ‫ال‏ َهَ ًَّا‏ َس َج َذ‬ َ ‫‏ٔ َسهَّ َى‏‏ َ َز َك َ‏ش َح ِذ‬
َ َ ‫يث‏انص َََّل ِج‏‬ َّ
َ ِّ ‫َّللاُ‏ َعهَ ْي‬
‫ض‏ َث َْم‏أَ ٌْ‏تَقَ َ ‏ َكفَّاُِ‏‬ ِ ْ‫ْاْلَس‬

Muhammad ibn Ma‟mar>>Hajjāj ibn Minhāl>>Hammām>>Muhammad ibn Juhādāh

from Abdul-Jabbār ibn Wā‟il from his father (i.e. Wā‟il ibn Hujr) that the Nabi
(Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam) … and he mentioned the hadīth of Salāh…and then he
said, „So when the Nabi (Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam) went down for prostration he
placed his knees to the earth before laying his hands (palms).”2

2
This is also reported by Al-Bayhaqī in his Sunan.
This particular chain is Mursal. That is because Abdul-Jabbār ibn Wā‟il was not old
enough to hear from his father, Wā‟il ibn Hujr, in hadīth. However, according to many
„Ulamā‟ a Mursal hadīth can be used as a supporting chain. However, all of the men in
the chain are Thiqāt. A quick review shall be presented here.

Starting with Hammām, he is Hammām ibn Yahyā ibn Dīnār Al Azdī. Imāmunā
Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Radhiya Allāhu 'Anhu), Yahyā ibn Ma‟īn, Al-„Ijlī, Ibn Hibbān And
Al Hākim declared him Thiqah, and at times thiqah and established. Al Hākim stated,
“Al-Hāfith (master of hadīth) Thiqah”. Abu Zura‟ah declared, “There is no problem with
him.” In At-Taqrīb Ibn Hajr states, “Thiqah, and maybe he had wahm (mistakes or
weakness).” In explanation of this Hāfith Arnā‟ūt and Dr. „Awwād basically ignore this
and state that the A‟immah of hadīth established his trustworthiness (tawthīq).

Second is Muhammad ibn Juhādah. Abū Tālib reports from Imām Ahmad,
“Muhammad ibn Juhādah is from the Thiqāt (trustworthy)!” Abū Hātim said, “Sadūq
Thiqah!” An-Nasā‟ī stated, “Thiqah!” Ibn Hibbān mentioned him in his thiqāt. Ibn Hajr
states in his Taqrīb, “Thiqah.”

Third is „Abdul Jabbār ibn Wā‟il ibn Hujr. Ibn Ma‟īn declared him, “thiqah”. On
another occasion he stated, “Established. He did not hear from his father.” Ibn Hibbān
mentions him in his Thiqāt. The scholars of hadīth agree that he did not meet his father.
However, he did report from his family such as his brother „Alqamah & his mother Umm
Yahyā. For this reason this narration is not that problematic as he is reporting from his
father, though most likely through his family. Ibn Hajr states, “And he reported from the
people of his family.”

For this reason, this report is a strong support for the hadīth of Sharīk, as this is a
second chain leading up to the companion Wā‟il ibn Hujr. For this reason Imām Al
Bahūtī stated, “It is reported by Abū Dāwūd with a Jayyid Isnād from other than the way
of Sharīk.”

Furthermore, Abū Dāwūd reports with another supporting chain via

Hammām>>Shaqīq>>‟Āsim>>from his father>>from the Nabi (Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa
Sallam) just like this.

This hadīth goes through the same Hammām ibn Yahyā ibn Dīnār Al Azdī. He
was mentioned prior. Shaqīq is Abū Layth. Adh-Dhahabī stated, “I don‟t know him.” Ibn
Hajr states, “Majhūl (unknown).” However, it should be mentioned that Ibn Qān‟ī reports
this chain as follows in his Mu‟jam,

“Hammām>>Shaqīq>>‟Āsim ibn Shantam>>from his father from the Nabi (Sallallāhu

'alayhi wa Sallam).”

These chains are simply supporting chains. That is because in the first and second
Shaqīq is Majhūl. However, in the first narration „Asim is „Āsim ibn Kulayb, whose
father is Kulayb. He did not report from the Nabi (Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam), thus it
would be Mursal.

As for the second, then „Āsim ibn Shantam‟s father, Shantam was a Sahābī. Thus
it would be connected (muttasil), as said by Ibn Qānī‟. However, I could not find a
tarjamah for „Āsim ibn Shantam except by looking to this hadīth. His entry in Tahthīb At-
Tahthīb points to Shaqīq‟s tarjamah. This fact would allude to the Jahālah of „Āsim ibn
Shantam.

Another supporting narration is what is reported from Anas ibn Mālik. In the report of
Al-Hākim in his Mustadarak it states,

‫فحدخىا أبَ العباس بو هحهد الدَرّ خىا العالء بو إسهاعٓل العطار خىا حفص بو غٓاح عو عاضن‬
‫األحَل عو أىس قال رأٓث رسَل اهلل ضمِ اهلل عمًٓ َسمن كبر فحاذُ بإبٍاهًٓ أذىًٓ خن ركع‬
‫حجِ اسجقر كل هفضل هىً َاىحط بالجكبٓر حجِ سبقث ركبجاي ٓدًٓ ٌذا إسىاد ضحٓح عمِ شرط‬
‫الشٓخٓو َال أعرف لً عمت َلن ٓخرجاي‬

Abul-Abbās ibn Muhammad Ad-Dawrī>>Al-„Alā‟ ibn Ismā‟īl Al-„Attār>>Hafs ibn

Ghayyāth>>‟Āsim Al-Ahwal from Anas who said he saw Rasūlullah (Sallallāhu 'alayhi
wa Sallam) raising his fingers up to ears and saying Allāhu Akbar. Then he bowed until
all of his body parts were even. Then after making takbīr he would place his knees down
before his hands.

Al-Hākim states, “Its chain is Sahīh upon the conditions of the two Shaykhs. I do not
know of it having a defect, yet they did not report it.” It is also reported by Ad-Dāraqutnī
and Al-Bayhaqī. Al Bayhaqī states, “…Al-„Alā is majhūl.”

Due to the Jahālah of Al-„Alā (and I found no tarjamah for him – besides in the
Lisān which did not mention an actual status), this chain is also weak. It is used as
support however.

Imām At-Tahāwī reports in his Ma‟āni Al Āthār,

“from Fahad ibn Sulaymān>>‟Amrū ibn Hafs>>from his father (Hafs ibn
Ghayyāth)>>Al-„Amash narrated to us Ibrāhim narrated to us from his companions –
„Abdullah, „Alqamah, And Al-Aswad that they said,

“We have preserved from „Umar his Salāh. When he would go down after ruku‟,
he would go down like a camel, establishing his knees before his hands.”

Al-Hāfith Al Ghumārī in his Hidāyah states that this chain is support for the above chain
of Al-„Alā‟ because it goes through Hafs ibn Ghayyāth.
 So as you can see there is one narration with thiqāt narrators, though some
criticism upon Sharīk. Another Mursal narration via „Abdul Jabbār ibn Wa‟il, with all of
its chain having trustworthy narrators. Then we have a weak chain going through Shaqīq
from the Kulayb family to the Nabi (Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam) in mursal form. We
then have the report of Anas ibn Mālik, having all thiqāt except for Al-„Alā‟ Ibn Ismā‟il.
Though that chain is also supported by the narration going through Hafs ibn Ghayyāth to
„Umar ibn Al Khattāb (Radhiya Allāhu 'Anhu) stating he would place his knees before
his hand.

In „Awn Al Ma‟būd the author states,

‫ٍْ‏ان َخطَّاب‏ َٔانَُّ َخ ِع ِّي‏ َٔ ُي ْس ِهى‏تٍْ‏‬

ْ ‫ٍْ‏ان ًُ ُْ ِزس‏ َع ٍْ‏ ُع ًَش ت‬
ْ ‫َٔ َح َكاُِ‏اِت‬
ّ‫يَ َساس‏ َٔ ُس ْفيَاٌ انلَّ ْٕ ِس ّ‏ َٔأَحْ ًَذ‏ َٔ ِ ْس َحاا‏ َٔأَصْ َحاب‏انش َّْأ ‏ َا َل‏ َٔ ِت ِ‏‬
.‫أَ ُٕل‬

“And Ibn Al Munthir reported this from „Umar ibn Al-Khattāb, An-Nakhā‟ī, Muslim Ibn
Yasār, Sufyān Ath-Thawrī, Ahmad, Is-hāq and the companions of opinion. And he said,
“And it is what I say (as well).”‫‏‬This shows Ibn Al Munthir‟s support for the athar of
„Umar ibn Al Khattab (Radhiya Allāhu 'Anhu) mentioned previously.

The reports of Abū Hurayrah

There is also another report via Abū Hurayrah stating,

َّ ‫‏َّللاِ‏ت ٍُْ‏ََا ِ ٍ‏‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏ ُي َح ًَّ ِذ‏ ْت ٍِ‏ َع ْث ِذ‬

‫‏َّللاِ‏ت ٍِْ‏ َح َس ٍٍ‏‏‬ َّ ‫َح َّذثََُا‏‏ ُ َ ْيثَحُ‏ت ٍُْ‏ َس ِعي ٍذ‏‏ َح َّذثََُا‏‏‏ َع ْث ُذ‬
َّ َّ‫صه‬
‫ى‏َّللاُ‏‬ َّ ‫ال‏ َا َل‏ َسسُٕل‬
َ ‫ُ‏َّللاِ‏‏‬ ‫ا‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏أَتِي‏ُْ َش ْي َشجَ‏‏ َ َ‏‬ َ
ِ ‫انزََا ِد‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏ ْاْل ْع َش‬ ِّ ‫‏ َع ٍْ‏‏أَتِي‬
‫‏ان َج ًَ ُ‏‬
‫م‬ ْ ُ ‫ي‏ص ََلتِ ِ‏ّ َيَ ْث ُش ُ‏ َك ًَا يَ ْث ُش‬
َ ِ ‫‏ٔ َسهَّ َى‏‏يَ ْع ًِ ُذ‏أَ َح ُذ ُك ْى‏‬
َ ِّ ‫َعهَ ْي‬

Abdullāh ibn Nāfi‟ from Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Hasan from Abiz-Zinād from Al-
„Araj from Abī Hurayrah who said that Rasūlullah (Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam) said,
“Support yourselves in your salāh. Go down just as the camel goes down.”

This narration is reported by Abū Dāwūd, At-Tirmithī, An-Nasā‟ī & Al Bayhaqī.

Nearly the same chain reports the complete opposite;

 ‫ٍْ ُي َح ًَّ ٍذ‏‏ َح َّذثَُِي‏‏‏ ُي َح ًَّ ُذ‏ت ٍُْ‏ َع ْث ِذ‏‬
‫يز‏ت ُ‏‬
ِ ‫‏ان َع ِز‬ ْ ‫ُٕس‏‏ َح َّذثََُا‏‏‏ َع ْث ُذ‬
ٍ ‫َح َّذثََُا‏‏ َس ِعي ُذ‏ت ٍُْ‏ َي ُْص‬
‫‏سسُٕ ُ‏‬
‫ل‬ َ ‫ال‏ َا َل‬ َ َ ‫ا‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏أَتِي ُْ َشي َْشجَ‏‏‬ َ
ِ ‫ي‏انزََا ِد‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏ ْاْل ْع َش‬ ِّ ِ‫‏ح َس ٍٍ‏‏ َع ٍْ‏‏أَت‬ َ ٍِْ ‫َّللاِ‏ت‬ َّ
‫ع ْ‏‬ َ َ‫ُ‏ٔ ْني‬
َ ‫‏انثَ ِعيش‬ ْ ُ ‫‏ٔ َسهَّ َى‏‏ ِ َرا‏ َس َج َذ‏أَ َح ُذ ُك ْ‏ى َ ََل‏يَ ْث ُش ْ ‏ َك ًَا‏يَ ْث ُش‬ َّ َّ‫صه‬
َ ِّ ‫ى‏َّللاُ‏ َعهَ ْي‬ َ ‫َّللاِ‏‏‬ َّ
ّ‫ْم ُس ْكثَ َ ْي ِ‏‬
‫يَ َذ ْي ِّ‏ َث َ‏‬

Abdul-„Azīz ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Hasan from Abiz-Zinād
from Al-„Araj from Abī Hurayrah who said that Rasūlullah (Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam)
said, “When one of you goes down for prostration, do not go down as the camel goes
down, and place your hands before your knees.”

This narration is reported by Ahmad, Ad-Dārimī, Abū Dāwūd (and this text is from his
Sunan), An-Nasā‟ī, at-Tahāwī, ad-Dāraqutnī, Al Bayhaqī, Al-Hāzimī in his „Itibār all
from the chain of Abdul-„Azīz ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Hasan
from Abiz-Zinād, as you see above.

So as you can see there are contradictions in the report from Muhammad ibn Abdillah ibn
Hasan.

Al Khattābī stated, “The Hadīth of Wā‟il is more authentic.” [Ma‟ālim As-Sunan fi

Mukhtasar Abī Dāwūd of Al-Munthirī. He was also quoted above by Imām Al Bahūtī.]

This hadīth is the basis of opposition to placing the hands before the knees. In our
view, it is not as authentic as the hadīth of Wā‟il, just as was mentioned by Imām Al-
Khattābī. Furthermore, there are contradictory reports from Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn
Hasan, as we have shown. Imām Al-Bukhārī stated, “There is no following up (yutābi‟)
for Muhammad ibn Abdullah ibn Al Hasan for it. I do not know if he heard from Abiz-
Zinād or not.”

Yet a totally separate chain that goes through the way of Muhammad ibn Fudhayl
from Abdullah ibn Sa‟īd from his Grandfather from Abī Hurayrah from the Nabi
(Sallallāhu 'alayhi wa Sallam) who said, “When one of you prostrates let him start with
his knees before his hands.” Reported by At-Tahāwī in his Sharh Al Ma‟ānī Al-Āthār3.

These are the proofs presented by the scholars of Hadīth and the Hanābilah, as well as
other madha-hib to support the opinion that the knees are to be placed down before the
hands when going down into Sujūd.

And Allāh Always Knows Best.

‫و‬
ِ َ‫ ع‬, ‫و جَدِّ ِي‬
ِ َ‫ ع‬, ‫سعِٓ ٍد‬
َ ‫و‬
ِ ِ‫و عَبِ ِد المَّ ًِ ب‬
ِ َ‫ل ع‬
ٍ ِٓ َ‫و فُض‬
ُ ِ‫ حَدَّخَىَا اب‬: ‫ل‬
َ ‫ قَا‬، ِّ
ٍّ ‫و عَد‬
ُ ِ‫ف ب‬
ُ ‫س‬
ُ َُٓ ‫ حَدَّخَىَا‬: ‫ل‬
َ ‫قَا‬3
ًِ َِٓ‫ل َٓد‬
َ ‫و إذَا سَجَ َد بَ َدَأ ِب ُركْبَجَِٓ ًِ قَ ِب‬
َ ‫ِْ كَا‬
َّ ‫َو الىَّب‬
َّ ‫أَبِْ ٌُرَ ِٓرَ َة رضْ اهلل عىً أ‬