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jhai_ken77 Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point
Participant 09/28/2009 2:41 PM
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Posts: 2 Will it be acceptable if instrument was installed above the tapping point, sea water flows in the pipe, and
Instrumentation:
one of this company standard states that the instrument should be below the tapping point. Pipe is 1foot
above floor line and what about if the tapping hole was at the top and not at the bottom, can I attain Go
acceptable value for this situation

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 Aerospace
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These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers". BioMech & BioMed
#4 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by Abdel Halim Galala on 09/29/2009 3:53 AM (score 4)
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#7 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by Abdel Halim Galala on 09/29/2009 2:41 PM (score 1)
#8 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by pipewelder on 09/29/2009 4:26 PM (score 1) Communications &
#10 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by Pete (Contol Systems) on 09/30/2009 11:06 AM (score 1) Electronics
Education and
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#1
RVZ717 Re: Pressure transmitter tapping point Electrical
Guru 09/28/2009 2:49 PM Engineering
General
"Will it be acceptable if instrument was installed above the tapping point..."
Instrumentation
followed by:

"company standard states that the instrument should be below the tapping point." Manufacturing

follow the standard, it was written for a reason... Mechanical

Join Date: Oct 2008 Engineering
Location: City of Roses.
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#2
lyn Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point Sustainable
Guru 09/28/2009 7:58 PM Engineering
Transportation

I agree with RVZ717.

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You'd need an authorization to deviate from company standards. Before installation.
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 #3 Forum Directory
Tornado Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point Blog Directory
Guru 09/28/2009 10:28 PM
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I would be interested to know their rationale. Some things come to mind:
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If the PT is much above or below the tap, the vertical difference will affect the reading, which can be CR4 FAQ
corrected for. This correction will be more difficult if the PT is above the tap, because part of the connecting Site Glossary
pipe/tube will contain air. On the other hand, tapping off the bottom of the main pipe may allow debris to
collect, blocking the connection to the PT. Just can't win, can we? Who's Online (138 right now)
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Join Date: May 2009 In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
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#4
Abdel Halim Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point
Galala 09/29/2009 3:53 AM

Guru
As a common use and good practice in installation of instruments & instrument connections into piping
systems:

For piping systems handling liquids, the tapping points must be located at the bottom of pipe to insure
that the media inside the instruments/tubes is liquid, and to insure that no gases/vapours/air pockets
which entrapped with the liquid get entrance to the instruments, which will leads to errors in readings of the
measured parameters.

Join Date: Feb 2007 Therefore, for liquid piping systems, we prefer (not mandatory in all cases*) to install the instruments
Location: Cairo, Egypt below the tapping points.
Posts: 1746
Good Answers: 243 For piping systems handling gases, the tapping points must be located at the top of pipe to insure that
the media inside the instruments/tubes is gas, and to insure that no liquids/condensates accompanied in
the gas pipe get entrance to the instruments, which will lead to errors in readings of the measured
parameters.

Therefore, for gas piping systems, we prefer (not mandatory in all cases*) to install the instruments above
the tapping points.

* Make a reference to the manufacturers' recommendations & instructions.

................

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#9
b v rao Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point In reply to #4
Power-User 09/30/2009 2:09 AM

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: India
For liquids tap should be on side. Bottom tap will cause sludge to settle in impulse piping as pointed out by
Posts: 156 others.

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#11
Abdel Halim Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point In reply to #9
Galala 10/01/2009 1:23 AM

Guru

The drawings at my post #4 are just schematic sketches, for detailed sectional drawing for that
instrument connections, I recommend to see and read my post #7.

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Location: Cairo, Egypt
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Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point #17

Anonymous 04/06/2010 4:53 AM In reply to #4
Poster

#5
Anonymous Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point
Poster 09/29/2009 8:19 AM

Our liquid lines are filled with liquids with no entrained gasses so we are not concerned with gasses in the
sense lines. Therefore we place our instrument taps for liquid filled lines in the upper 1/3 of the liquid line.
This is to ensure that there is no debris to clog the sense line. The instrument can be above the tap point if
the total head in the liquid line is high enough to ensure positive pressure at the instrument. However,

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 calibration will have be adjusted for the configuration. In short every instrument installation needs to be
designed by a qualified I&C engineer with experience in the system being monitored and instruments being
applied. Blind adherence to "standards" and "cookbook" design without an understanding of the system and
instrumentation being applied is a guaranteed recipe for failure and a non, or poorly working design.

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#6
RVZ717 Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point In reply to #5
Guru 09/29/2009 12:03 PM

You are correct, not understanding what it is you are designing is not smart practice, and can be quite
dangerous.

However, not conforming to the rules, and standards which are currently in place is a great way to loose
your job, find yourself in the gun-sights of a hungry lawyer, or worse. If you see something wrong with a
standard, you must take the correct steps to change the standard for the better. If you can prove that
something in the standard needs modification, or is wrong, present it to whomever is responsible for it,
Join Date: Oct 2008 and suggest (in good taste) what it can be changed to. In today's world, you can't simply "Cowboy up"
Location: City of Roses. anymore and really get things done, Far too much red tape surrounds everything.
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#7
Abdel Halim Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point In reply to #5
Galala 09/29/2009 2:41 PM

Guru
Our liquid lines are filled with liquids with no entrained gasses so we are not concerned with gasses in
the sense lines.

No experienced engineer can say like that, because any liquid line is subjected to locate some traces of
gases or vapour (from liquid itself) or may be a pockets of air entrapped into the liquid piping.

Blind adherence to "standards" and "cookbook" design without an understanding of the system and
instrumentation being applied is a guaranteed recipe for failure and a non, or poorly working design.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt Very great words from unknown person with unknown experience, to the extent we don't know his
Posts: 1746 name/nickname. In addition, we didn't find any reason for him to say like that.
Good Answers: 243
ABC piping design for a Junior piping engineer to clearly understanding of my schematic (just schematic)
sketch of orifice flanges at my post #4, where the detailed drawing of the instrument connections is
accomplished by staggered connections with 90o to facilitate assembly and disassembly of instrument

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 fittings and valves. And these detailed drawings may be cleared through the isometric drawings, or
through a standard drawings, or specifications for the whole project.

In addition, in case of liquid connections, the staggered connections help avoiding collection of debris and
deposits and intern avoiding clogging the tubes and instrument fittings.

The prescribed good practices was experienced and applied for a lot of hundreds projects designs in
piping systems for more than 30 years ago.

...................

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Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point #12

jhai_ken77 10/30/2009 2:20 PM In reply to #7

#8
pipewelder Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point
Guru 09/29/2009 4:26 PM

The general rule is exactly what Mr. Abdel says about gas and liquid services. Materials such as pulp that are
a cross of solids, liquids with a little gas thrown in as well as restricting physical situations may require
special attention for the installation of some instruments. You should follow the manufacturers
recommendations always because they probability done the research to know how it works best. If you have
a special situation ask them or your vendoer if in your circumstance if it would be ok to mount it different. I
have seen and done this before many times in the past when installing something that just would not go any
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Georgia, other way. They will probably tell you 1 of three things:
USA
Posts: 672 1 fine and you can keep the warranty,
Good Answers: 33
2 it doesn't really mater except it may not last as long and you will lose your warranty

3 no you cannot because it won't work that way and you fail if you tdo it

Once you get your answer you will have to decide if mounting it against the manufacturer's
recommendations is worth it. Many times I have seen it be worth it in my situations as long as it fell in the 1
or 2 catagoies above. It is always best to know what the man that built or sold it thought before you decide
to mount an instrument or really do anything different than recommended.

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#10
Pete (Contol Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point
Systems) 09/30/2009 11:06 AM

Active Contributor
The tap(s) need to be at or below the pipe centerline. Good practice is at 45 deg below. The instrument
Join Date: Jun 2007 "should" also be mounted below for reasons already explained in previous comments. You are stuck with the
Posts: 18 floor, but the way around the problem is to use a diaphragm seal. You can then mount the transmitter in any
Good Answers: 1
configuration....

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#13
BengBear Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point In reply to #10
Participant 12/30/2009 9:59 PM

Join Date: May 2009

Posts: 4
We had 2 pumps discharging cold water to a common pipe to supply AHU systems. A pressure transmitter
(Px) is install on top of the horizontal pipe before entering the common pipe. For some reasons, the
reading of the pressure transmitter was not noticed since commissioning of the system. But the reading of
the local pressure gauge (Pg) mounted on vertical pipe just after the discharge of the pump showing 8 bar
was often refered. The pressure trans is not the diffential pressure type, just a tapping point)

Recently, reference was made on Px and notice that it reads between 0 to 1 bar. The questionable Px was
replaced with new and calibrated pressure transmitter and the Px reading remain at 0 to 1 bar from the
trend plot.

Question: As I am away from the instrument trade for some good no of years, but I remember from my
training that Pressure transmitter tapping (take off point) should be taken from the side of the pipe, like
what you guys are talking about. Is what we experience due to tapping installation ?

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Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point #14

BengBear 01/01/2010 7:36 AM In reply to #13

#15
Pete (Contol Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point In reply to #13
Systems) 01/04/2010 10:39 AM

Active Contributor
It is probable that you have entrained compressibles in the transmitter impulse line and body when a
Join Date: Jun 2007 liquid application is taken from the top of pipe. Suggest side mount at 45 deg down to allow for a full
Posts: 18 liquid leg.

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Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point #16

BengBear 01/10/2010 3:50 AM In reply to #15

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Comments rated to be Good Answers:

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#4 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by Abdel Halim Galala on 09/29/2009 3:53 AM (score 4)

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!

#7 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by Abdel Halim Galala on 09/29/2009 2:41 PM (score 1)
#8 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by pipewelder on 09/29/2009 4:26 PM (score 1)
#10 "Re: Pressure Transmitter Tapping Point" by Pete (Contol Systems) on 09/30/2009 11:06 AM (score 1)

Users who posted comments: Copy to Clipboard

Abdel Halim Galala (3); Anonymous Poster (2); b v rao (1); BengBear (3); jhai_ken77 (1); lyn (1); Pete (Contol Systems) (2);
pipewelder (1); RVZ717 (2); Tornado (1)

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