INTRODUCTION

bJ
Dr. Maceo Crenshaw Dailey, Jr.
Assistant Professor of History
Boston College, Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts
Written in Northampton, Massachusetts,
29 December 1983

13
black guitarist Blind Lemon Jefferson is one of the finest
pieces. In the Kenkeleba Gallery catalogue on the show,
Marion wrote:
I began drawing in Padua, Italy on May 16, 1981. 1 was sitting in
the Piazza staring at the Cathedral San Antonio, when I was sud
denly moved to draw it. The experience made me feel relaxed. I
kept drawing everyday thereafter, I have not stopped. I have ex
perienced wonderful things. I sleep better; I stopped smoking; I
play the saxophone better; I like myself more; and I feel better
about everything.
He has approached drawing and painting tasks with the energy
that makes him such a superlative musician. In an interview in
1983, Marion remarked,
"I draw all day, all day long when I'm not doing the saxophone.
Occasionally I have to come out and walk around the streets. It's
like I'm coming up for air. "11
Marion Brown is one of the cultural and artistic milestones
in America. He has lived an existential variegated life which
makes him preeminently qualified to write on the subjects in
cluded within this book.
In the essays on John Coltrane and Edward Kennedy
"Duke" Ellington, we come to see the two musical giants
through the eyes of a sensitive and perspicacious peer. Some
of the driving forces and spiritual panoply that brought to the
foreground some of Coltrane's other-side-of-reality sounds are
examined by Marion in terms and context which make us
aware of the direction in which the master was headed and
22
wish that he had lived for many, many more years. Edward
Kennedy Ellington was the consummate musician when it
came to composition and orchstral cohesion,and in Marion's
essay on Ellington, we are given the occasion to understand
the significance of form and expression in the greatness of
Ellington's music.
"The Negro in the Fine Arts" essay is a comprehensive
chronicling of Afro-American artistic development and con
tributions from the eighteen century days of the Maryland por
trait painter Joshua Johnson to present-day sculpturer Bar
bara Chase-Riboud.
The essay in the relationship between language and song
text can only serve to increase and heighten the lay person's
understanding and appreciation of music, and finally, Ma
rion's essay on "Afternoon of a Georgia Faun" deals with his
return to Georgia where it all started for him.
These essays move along with a fluid, facile, and visionary
quality which is as ubiquitous as the many soul-searching
sounds in Marion's playing of his own composition "Sweet
Earth Flying." So read these essays with care and listen to that
particular piece of music, and you will come to understand
why Marion Brown is one of the contributing citizens to the
"Sweet Earth Flying."
23
FOOTNOTES music, Marion played on WGBY television station of Springfield, Massachusetts on
31 December _1981. 11:fanon's early interest in guitar resulted from taking guitar
1 Jean Toomer, Cane (New York: Liveright Publishers, 1923) lessons from Bill Hams, who played guitar for_ the singing group the "Clovers," see
2
Discussions with Marion Brown, Northampton, Massachusetts, 23 July and 8 Brown, "Faces and Places," pp. 28-30 and his "Resume." Discussion with Marion
October 1983; "Interview with Marion Brown," In Other Words 3 (March 1982): 5; Brown, Northampton, Massachusetts, 8 October 1983.
Hartford Courant, 14 September 1975; The Other Voice, 15 April 1982. ll"Interview with Marion B_rown," Contact VIII (December-January 1983) 10-11;
3 Marion Brown, "Faces and Places: The Music and Travels of a Contemporary , _
Jus Jass: Correlations of Painting and Afro-American Classical Music, (New York: Ken
Jazz Musician," (M.A. thesis, Wesleyan University, 1976), pp. 3-31. keleba House Gallery, 1983).
4 Included among Marion's many curious moments in New York City was his
attendance at an evening party where he was introduced to the noted anthropolo
gist Margaret Mead, and she, in alluding to herself, asked him if he had ever met a
footnote before; for information on this and many of Marion's experiences while
living in New York City see his "Faces and Places," pp. 29-35; also see Bowdoin
College Yearbook, 1972-73, p. 46.
5Brown, "Faces and Places," pp. 39-45.
6 Also while he was in Paris, Marion met Margaret Just Butcher, author of The

Negro in American Culture, a book emanating out of the papers and notes of Howard
University philosophy professor Alain Leroy Locke; Butcher attended one of
Marion's musical concerts in Paris, and, like those Afro-American scholars who
helped to midwife the Harlem Renaissance of the 1920s and to fraternize with many
of its IJ10St prominent artists, she often enjoyed inviting Marion and others to her
home for good food and conversation, see Brown, "Faces and Places," pp. 45-108.
7Brown, "Faces and Places," pp. 227-29; discussion with Marion Brown, North
ampton, Massachusetts, 25 December 1983.
8Marion Brown, "Resume," 1980.
9
Marion's musical career has been phenomenal. The Ascension album with John
Coltrane in 1965 and the New Wave in Jazz album with Archie Shepp in the same
year show Marion at his best as a sideman, but his own recordings, some nineteen
in all which includes several Yoshio Ozawa produced for release in Japan, demon
strate Marion's virtuosity. His Jubalee, Afternoon of a Georgia Faun, La Placita, Passion
Flower, Soul Eyes, and November Cotton Flower are albums which should find their way
into homes on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean; Marion was also the subject of two
documentary films: a New York University Film Institute master's thesis by Henry
English titled "Do You Hear What I'm Trying To Say?" and the West German
Theodore Kotulla's production titled "See the Music?" See Brown, "Resume."
!OThe renditions of Mwenda Jean Bosco's music, Marion arranged and performed
at the Massachusetts Cummington Community for the Arts in 1979, the Iron Horse
Coffee House of Northampton in 1979, the Friends of Black Music in Boston in
1979, and Real Art Ways in Hartford, Connecticut in 1979; and some of Satie's

24 25
sonal excursions to a minimum. Finally, in order to highlight
our questions in the text from those parts spoken by Marion,
we have printed the former in italics.
When Marion visited us he brought with him the slides of his
drawings to be used for the reproductions in this book. Among
them was a drawing ofW.E.B. Du Bois.
We thought it a good idea to open the conversations with
Marion Brown by reading to him out of Du Bois' book 'The
Souls of Black Folk'-a part which deals especially with a
place familiar to Marion: Atlanta, Georgia, his hometown.

31
When you read it I was there. I was right there. And I kne w it into the other aspect of Black culture ke poetry, literature
was about Georgia. I knew it was Black poetry. I thought at until later.
first it was Jean Toomer... I guess, Du Bois must be like Duke My first love was music and my second was art. I wrote an
Ellington for a lot of people, you know, writers writing so e ssay on the history of Black people in art that came out in The

great . American Negro Reference Book in 1966. This book is a compen

No poets are well known. Especially in America. You d on't dium of studies on "Negro" culture. I am in that book with
like poets. There are no well-known poets. I means,
not that many scholars. It's an honor to be there with the great scholars
well-known. The way I came to it, wh e n I came to J ean Toom on Black people and Black arts. My essay is called: The Negro
s ps t ward Black po etry, In The Fine Arts. I traced the evolution of t he Black people in
er, I was coming to make my first te o

God's Trombones, James Weld o n Johnso n, all th e t hings like the United State s as artists from the iron makers and crafts

that. But I didn't kn o w anythi ng ab o u t mod e m p oetr y. Be men up to fine arts painters. I forgot about that. I've forgotten
cause I never care d ab o u t po et ry. Wh e n I was a y o ung man I about a lot of things, too. I'd have to really look sometimes at
jus d aling wi h music and hen as I go t a my resume and be told by people about things I did-because
spent all my time t e t t

little older I became more aware of other things. They were I just did them and I forgot them or I was doing it to satisfy
possibly related. But I never cared about poetry until the Six- something in school.
t ie s.
As I said before, my first thing was music although I was
always aware of Black artists. Every year at the Atlanta Uni
But wasn't Black poetry part of the school curriculum? versity there was a Black art show. They showed paintings and
ad and sculptures of Black artists, because the larger society in Amer
At t hat time there was absolutely no Black poetry re
s. N , you g or the ica, New York and the various art scene, they don't deal too
discussed in the classe o et God's Tromb ones
me hru s ng. M s Black p ple who much with that.
other things as they c o t o o t eo
_
were going to college in the Forties, Fifties and u?
until the So, to get back to poetry ... that came about a little later
poetry: because, as I said before, I was always interested in what I
Sixties read English poetry, European poetry, Italian
... I knew hear and in looking at pictures. I think, I'd not cared much for
Dant e, Shakespeare, Shelley, Byron, Keats, Hein
e
es was very words; only insofar as I had to use them to talk. Ot her t han
very little about Black poetry. Langston Hugh
publi shed. H did a that I hated them.
well-known because he got a lot o f books
e

Bu I jus didn' g
lot of things. Somehow he made it thru. t t t et

34 35
 Obviously, your interest in Black poetry increased in the first half
of the Seventies. Especially your interest in Jean Toomer and his
book 'Cane.' This is strongly reflected on your record 'Geechee
Recollections.' You wrote music to the very first poem in that
book, entitled 'KARINTHA.' Then some of your later composi
tions, like 'November Cotton Flower' and 'Sweet Earth Flying' re
called words, respectively titles, of Jean Toomer's book. When
'Cane' was published in the early Twenties, 1923, a lot of things
were happening then, all over the world...
Yes, they call it the Harlem Renaissance Period. It was a beauti
ful time according to what I read. I wish I could have lived
then. I would have enjoyed it very much. They had a flour
ishing of poetry and letters. And music as well: Duke Elling
ton and everybody else were playing the Cotton Club. And the
Savoy was jumpin', I mean, stompin'.
Arriong the many writers were Claude McKay, Richard Wright,
Wallace Thurman, Arna Bontemps, Langston Hughes-to name
only a few...
Right! A lot of people. I can't ever think of all of them. But it
was a lot of them. James Weldon Johnson of course, and
many, many others. It was a great time! It was a time for fashion.
People wore beautiful clothes. One needs only to look at the
photographs of James van der Zee to see what Harlem was
like then. He just died recently. He is the greatest photo
grapher of Black life. He is the Stieglitz of Black America. He
made some beautiful photographs. He was using experiments.
He was creating double-images and things. There's one in
teresting book f his; it's called The Harlem Book Of The Dead.
36
It is a book about funerals in Black life; how Black people
celebrate death. Van der Zee was from Lenox, Massachusetts.
He's from the same area that W.E.B. Du Bois was from.
I'm sure you have seen some of his photographs, but you
just didn't know, because his work is in so many books. There
are only one or two books on him and his work. But again,
that's the whole bit about Black artists. Black artists don't get
produced. But his work is there: in New York, it's at the
Schomburg Museum in Harlem.
I would think that his successor would be Roy de Carava.
He is a younger man. He just finished putting out a big show in
Harlem, all on music, photographs on Black music, called The
Sound! Saw.
Very good title!
He is different from van der Zee. He's more a poet. Van der
Zee was like Michelangelo. Carava is from New York. I think
he has a Hispanic background. They took one of the photo
graphs out of The.Sound I Saw of John Coltrane and they made
a big life-size poster copy. It was in all the subways in New
York. Very great! Trane on the wall, in every station, just
playing, you know, playing the sound that Roy de Carava saw.
It's beautiful. That doesn't happen often. Only two Black peo
ple have so far been depicted in the New Yorker subway: Mar
vin Hagler, the middle-weight champion of the world-and
John Coltrane. It's a real good feeling when you can ride by
stations and see your people out there.
37
 Coming back to Georgia, Marion. Perhaps you'd like to desc,:ibe
your first impressions, family, childhood, faces and places; things
of that nature.
I grew up in the educational center there : The Atlanta Uni
versity Center. Atlanta is distinguished by having more Black
colleges and universities in one area than any other place in
the entire country. Atlanta University; Morehouse College;
Clark College ; Spelman College ; The Atlanta College of
Mortuary Science. They have theological seminaries. And all
that in one place ! Du Bois was there. All the great scholars
have been there. I was born there. Lived in an alley. Just a
little street. Be hind all that. As a kid I used to go to play not to
the playground but to the colleg e campus. This is one of the
reasons why I can never get away from schools. I was born there. I
am a product of that environment.
When I was a little boy, six or seven years old, I used to
walk thru the dormitory and the college buildings. In one door
and out the other. There were people in the classro oms. Me
and my friends watched the classes going on and the night
watchman would chase us. We had fun doing that. It was
great! After school we would go out in the woods to play. We
had a very famous place back of Washington High School.
There was a creek called Shit Creek. We had a big rope up in a
tree to swing across this water. The whole idea of Shit Creek
was that yo u had to be good at swinging on that rope. B ecause
if you missed the ro pe and fell in you would be up to yo ur neck
in Shit Creek.
38
My family, my mother and aunts didn't have many children.
Some of the women didn't have any children. Most of the
others only had one. I had a lot of uncles and aunts. And so I
got a lot of love and attention. Everybody want ed me to be
something different. Some of my relatives wanted me to
preach. Some wanted me to teach. But none wanted me to play
music. Because, as I said, I come up in the South, in a very
Christian family; and people didn't und erstand why music
could be for any other reason than dancin' and worship.
My mother was just an ordinary woman. She was a practical
nurse. She had a High School education. But sh e was a very
together person. My grandfather and grandmother had no
education. But my grandfather on my mother's side was a
medicine doctor, a root man. Whatever you call it. He told
fortune, and he mad e medicine for people. He made internal
medicine, herbal medicine, he was into that. My grandf ather
was crippled. I used to go to the woods with my uncles wh en I
was a little boy; to pull roots out of the ground. They would go
along in front of me and pull them up; because they knew what
to do. I would come behind and put the roots in a sack. Then
we would take them home.
I remember that in the kitchen my grandmother would be
making the medicine for him. I always will remember the
smells in the house. He made two kinds of medicine. He made
an elixir for taking against internal illnesses and h e made an
ointment for the outside.
I remember going thru the kitchen l ooking at those big pots
39
on the stove, watching little branches and twigs sticking out
from the lids and covers and looking at the yellow bubbles
from sulphur boiling in the water. All of the things that he got
for his internal medicine he picked out of the woods, except
for sulphur which was bought commercially: He bought most
all of that stuff from regular stores during that time. In the
South, there were a lot of stores that sold roots and all kinds of
strange things.
Black people didn't own these stores. These stores were
owned by white people. Because white and Black people in
the United States relate to folk medicine and to folk remedies,
to folklore, and to folk talk; there's not that much difference.
White people owned all these stores. It was in the Black neigh
borhood over at the crossroads, where we would go, like we
went today, walking to the market. That's where we would go
on weekends, to the markets.
When I was a small lad my grandfather used to tell fortune,
people's fortune. He looked at cards, not tarot cards, regular
gambling cards. He would also give people numbers to lay,
like in a kind of lottery situation. It was illegal at that time.
But he would give people the numbers. He would look in the
newspaper and find the numbers in two ways: One he would
_
get them by looking at the stock-market report. Otherwise; he
would look at cartoons with a magnifying glass. And he would
tum the cartoons this way and that way.
He would call me sometimes and let me look thru the glass,
into Lil' Orphan Annie's ear or into Dick Tracy's ear, mouth
40
or eyes and he would say, 'See that nine and see that eightl'
So, he put these numbers together; and he would give them to
people to play. When they played anything and won, in addi
tion to paying him for the advice, they would give him more
money. My grandmother was a numbers-lady. She took num
bers in the house. So as a kid even tho I lived with people who
weren't very educated; we always had some money. They
always worked. Most of them worked for themselves. They
always worked for white people. Like one uncle, he was a
contractor for plumbing. He used to put in the sinks and all the
pipes for the water. He had his own company and had many
men working for him, so, I would work with them.
On my father's side, my grandfather was a carpenter, mas
ter carpenter. He lived in the northern part of Georgia in a
small town; a village you would say here, where there were
very few Black people. He was the most wealthy Black man in
that area. Because he was the carpenter. He practically built
and restored everybody's house: Black and white. We had a
vast apple orchard in back of his house. So, we had apples
galore to eat. He was a very interesting man. I remember
when I was a little boy, he'd take me and sat me on his lap
whenever things would come on the radio. Especially politics
and things like that. He would talk to me about voting, poli
tics, Haile Selassie, Joe Louis. He would hug me and kiss me.
I really liked it, except his beard sometimes used to prick my
face and it would hurt. He was a great man and I loved him. I
used to go to visit him every summer.
41
ought to be in the Black community at a certain time. In
Atlanta everybody knew about everybody else. So, therefore
when I would play 'hookey' or stay away from church; my
parents would find out about it the same day.
Was there a lot of organ playing and singing?
Yes, organ playing, singing. I went to a methodist church and
it was a church of very educated people. It was called Flipper
Temple, A. M. E.-it is named after a family, the Flipper
family. One of the Flippers was the first Black man to graduate
from West Point and he was involved in some sort of a cheat
ing thing or something. He was court-martialed. It was some
thing like the DreyfuB-affair.
He was court-martialed? What for?
Because they say he had been stealing some ... you know, like
there was this myth about Black people that was put out, that
they steal, that Black people always steal. Everywhere a Black
person went people always thought that they were thinking
about stealing something; or going to steal something. In the
comedies that show the Black way of life; it was always Black
people stealing a chicken to eat.
So, I went to church every Sunday; and as I said, I grew
up in an area where all the colleges were, so, we always had
pretty good church services. The people would sing, and
shout. They did what they had to do. But, there was a certain
degree of control to people that didn't get in the way. Some of
44
the people would go to the sanctified churches in the same
neighborhood; and that was really interesting. Because there
are so many types. We have A. M. E. churches, Baptist
churches, C. M. E. churches. We have all kind of churches
in fact, America has freedom of religion. If I wanted to start
church, all I need to do is find myself a place, pay the rent and
get some people there, to believe what I'm talking about.
My parents had bourgeois aspirations. We went to the finest
church; one of the finest churches on my side of town. Atlanta
is a big place. It's like Frankfurt. There are so many quarters.
Most people don't go to church in their neighborhood; they go
way across town. Strange! I used to criticize people about that.
Because I thought it would give you a few extra minutes to
sleep in the morning. You wouldn't have to get up at seven,
when you could get up at nine. But it's a social thing! People
go to certain churches because certain people belong there or
they like the ministers. But anyway, I grew up in Flipper Tm
ple, A. M. E. church. On West Fair Street. In Atlanta Geor
gia. I was born on West Fair Street in Atlanta. And I lived in
that area throughout my entire life in Atlanta.
What caused the break with home?
The Army.
That would b when you were . . .
- eighteen. Otherwise I had a lot of restrictions. I would
always have to come home at night. Everybody knew where I
45
wasgoing and what I was doing. I had to go to church. All the
time you had to do a lot. When I would go away in the summer
to visit different relatives of mine, the only difference was the
envionment. Another place. But the regulations and rules
still held. When I went to the Army, the U.S. Army, thatwas
my first experience of being able to go out on the town and do
all the things I had in my imagination. I wanted to find out
about women. I didn't know much about women until I was
between seventeen and eighteen.
Looking back now, was it a search for personal independence?
Did you sense a movement of change?
I was supposed to be different, anyway. Because my gen
eration-they didn't know it then-would be the generation
that would bring much more pride to Black people. Until then
I was doing what everybody else was doing. But my imagina
tion was already another thing. Parents and their children
have a lot in common. But, by the same token there's so much
going on in the minds of children that you can never dream
what's there. I have a son, for instance; and, sometimes he
talks about things to my friends, that he doesn't talk to me
about. He knows that he can talk to me about anything; but,
somehow daddy or mamma is not always the person you want
to talk to about what's going on in your mind. It was like that
with me. Besides I wanted to stay out at night so I could see
what was going on in life. The Army was a good opportunity
to do it and to break away from home.
46
When did you start playing music? What was your first instrument?
I started playing saxophone in Junior High School. Lots of
people start out with the_ clarinet, the piano, the guitar. I
didn't. I went backwards. I started with the saxophone and
then went back to the clarinet and the oboe. I wanted to play
the alto saxophone. Because my mother had friends who
played in a local dance band in Atlanta.
And that impressed you?
Uh-huh, and also I could see when I was young that certain
types of people play certain instruments. Most of the alto sax
ophone players that I knew when I was a kid were really very
respectable people. They were insurance men, or teachers.
They had a certain kind of savoir faire. Trumpet players were
outgoing; and the tenor saxophone players likewise were real
ly making a lot of sounds, making people really dance a lot.
But the alto saxophone was always geared toward a certain
aspect of sound; the sensuous, the ballads, and romanticism
with a certain 'distance perhaps. Charlie Parker and Johnny
Hodges were two very essential players. They were princely
men. Parker was very princely. And very aloof; and so was
Johnny Hodges. Earl Bostic was a very well-hewn man. He
looked like the owner of an insurance company, an undertak
er, or real-estate man.
These aspects made me interested later in studying ethnic
music. Because certain types of people do certain things. In-
47
struments have souls in them; it takes certain types of souls to
deal with the piano, the bass, the trombone, the saxophones,
the drums and so on...
It's a question of finding then...
...the right one. When an instrument pulls you to it, you're
the right person for it. And it's the right instrument for you.
That's why I could not deal with being a multi-instrumentalist.
I don't want to be a multi-instrumentalist. I would come up on
stage with every horn that you can buy. I know and everyone
else knows, that only Eric Dolphy and Buddy Collette could
deal with multi-instrumentalism. Most other people who are
playing a lot of different instruments are not playing all of
them well.
What is their special quality?
It's a mutual mastery. It's a rare situation ... now I think ab
out it, it's not really rare. In all bands, in the old Black dance
bands; most people doubled in the reed section on different
instruments. But they didn't solo on all such instruments. They
read parts on them. But Collette and Dolphy could solo on all
the instruments they played. Yusef Lateef is also a very good
multi-instrumentalist in a sense that he was starting to intro
duce ethnic instruments too. Most people are playing a lot of
instruments these days to make up for the difference in the
way they play music. When there are no drums, they do not
play regular meter and chord progressive music. They do this
48
because they are trying to make a whole spectrum of sound
and color. When I started to realize that that was not my
thing-I stopped. Now, I know about a lot of instruments, and
I have a certain degree of facility on them. But I don't play
them in public. Because I know I can't play them well enough
to stand up there and present myself to people as being an alto
player, a tenor player, a soprano player, a clarinet player, a
flute player, a guitar player, a dancer, a singer, a poet or a
magician ...
How do y_ou feel about the recent inclination of many musicians
toward third world music; playing instruments from Africa, Asia
and other ountries in a non-traditional way? They are trying to
produce different sounds, to express themselves in an individual
way, because they seemingly think that their own instruments and
musicaf backgrounds are lacking stimulus and attraction. It's a type
of exotic food to satisfy the public's greed for constant novelty. Do
you think this is valid?
It could be valid. It just depends on who the people are. It is a
question of sensitivity. It is also a question of making up your
mind at some point really to go and study this music with the
people who play it.
! have a master's degree from Wesleyan University in
Middletown, Connecticut. I am an ethnomusicologist. I am a
world musician. But there are many people who pl;:ty music
and use all these other instruments, and they call themselves
the same thing. But they really are not! I studied Japanese
flute for one semester. I studied Indian flute for one semester.
I came to the conclusion that I didn't really need to do any of
49
those things. Because the saxophone is a life-time job. I just
quit playing them.
On the tour, we just got to doing, I was listed as being an as,
fl, and ss. Now, this means that some people think that a duo
cannot be two men playing two instruments. People say,
'Where's your flute? Where's your this?' I'll just say, 'Wait,
you'll hear! You will hear the flute. You'll hear the soprano
sax ... everything! It's all there!'
But what can happen with some instruments that come
from other worlds and other cultures ... you don't know the
system of what they are doing. It is very likely that in
playing these instruments, you could accidently stuble on
a combination of sounds, that are only to be used m a cer
tain ritual context. When these things are used out of con
text they sometimes create alternative situations, where
things are happening to people's minds and they don't
know what it is. It is possible to be playing on some drums
and something and you might just unconsciously beat
out a rhythm that originally is designed to cause a certain
effect: rain or thunder, or, to make somebody crawl on all
fours.
I only play saxophone. I am a western man. A western
Black man. And I live in America. The saxophone for me is
the main instrument to express myself on. You can play as
many things on the saxophone. It's endless.
Contemporary music, Black music, or contemporary third
stream music, that is the same-not the music of the West
50
Coast and Gunther Schuller-but the music that puts the
two
or_ three traditio?s at one time, this type of thing is a good
hm. But sometimes people overdo it. Because they are play
mg mstruments on sheer instinct. They don't really know
what's going on. But they find things that they can play
and
that sound OK; and as long as the sound is OK to them
they
I see people, percussionists, they have tablas, Africa
n
drums, everything you can think of. They can't know them
all!
Because in these very societies where you have these instru
ments, you learn how to play them. Now, I do know Afro
mericans, and I know European Americans who play ethnic
mstruments. But most studied at Wesleyan University. And
they go after that to do post-graduate studies in the variou
s
countries. For example, Ralph Samuelson plays the Japanese
shakuhachi in the Japanese tradition because he studied it.
There's _also Steve Gorn. He plays the Indian flute. He's very
good at 1t because he made all sacrifices: giving up the western
instruments, and going to India. There are a number of people
who know what they are doing in this business. But most of
the people don't really know. Because they haven't studied.
They are self appointed ethnomusicologists. It's hip to be an
ethnomusicologist.
How do you feel about your own instrument, the alto saxophone?
-'.'1re you aware that playing it is your fundamental way of express
mg yourself!
It is a.love affair, uh-huh. I told somebody on the tour, when
51
they asked me about the other instruments, 'I play only one
instrument, one instrument only!' I don't need any more than
the alto saxophone. I will never master it. And it will keep
getting nicer to me. I can hear myself growing all the time. But
mastering it is out of the question. I don't want to master it.
Because that would leave nothing else to do. I'm not a demon
practiser. I practise enough to keep me up on it. I want to save
some time for later; leave something to be done later. So,
while I'm deeply involved with it, I can put it aside for a while;
but always know it is there. It is always calling me to it. I can
never get too far away from it. If I stay away from it for a week
then something inside me starts to speak to me about it. I
don't think about any other instrument.
Do you get very involved in technique?
I am more involved in sound texture than I am in how fast I
can go from the bottom to the top, how many notes I can play
per measure.
And what about other instruments?
I can read music on the clarinet and the oboe, on the piano
and the guitar. But I can't improvise. I couldn't. They just
didn't work for me.
Have you ever been in a situation where you felt a technical short
coming on the alto or would you say, you still go ahead?
I only feel technically limited when I sit down to listen to re
cords by Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, and; let's say,
52
Andrew White. But then, I realize that ... it's about sound.
Everything is about sound. In jazz, in Black music, it's about
how you sound. No one cares how fast you play. Look at Miles
Davis, and Ahmad Jamal, and Lester Young. They are all
very economical players. But they had this approach to Sound
and Space. Then there are some people, whose gift is to play
as fast as possible. That's not my gift. But when I listen to
people like that, I mean all of it, there are moments when I
definitely wish I could do it that way.
I get the same effect that they do. I get it another way. I
surround people with sound. I try to think of myself as wrap
ping them in velvet, nice fur; I like Sound!
After a while this fascination w#h the opposite pole, like listening to
someone who is able to do things that you can't do, palls; however
with any experience, I think, there are some elements there that you
would like to be a little bit more into.
It reaches you. But only that which is acceptable to you. After
a period of listening to sheer speed, perhaps if you're not a
speed playe:r, it intends to pall a bit and then actually you feel
you've had enough.
I can listen to myself, the various works that I have done,
and many people can listen. They can hear a bit of Bird, a bit
of Hodges, a bit of Coltrane-all that is in there. But, as I say,
I don't do it that way, the way that they do. And I never have.
I never have been about speed. I'm not a fast person. I'm fast,
but I am slow. That's how I'm fast: I am fast in my slowness.
53
 Regardless of this aspect of speed, the interaction between the play
er and listener is governed by the laws of sound projection and
acoustics.
We know how people react when they are listening. They have
to mix it. It's like playing into microphones. They are recep
tors. And when things are going in, it has to go thru a process
and so somehow sounds are traveling in that space between
when they are omitted and get out to the people there. Other
notes are following on heels of them and things like that.
When I listen to music, what I do is try to anticipate what is
coming next; so, that when it comes, there won't be a gap. But
it's interesting what happened.
Do you sacrifice for this reason the sheer beauty of each individual
tone?
No, no, no, no, I would never do that! I'm always thinking
about that. Because I consider my strongest point to be the
beauty of the sound. I'll order it enough and in such a way that
people can get a chance to hear each note on its own terms.
What I like most about the sound when it moves from me out
to the audience; is when I play in a Gothic type cathedral.
Because every time I go to one of these places I know what I
am going to get. I'm going to get that acoustic playback; and I
know as I play I can hear myself coming back, playing with
myself.

54
 How does it work? Is it purely acoustic or what?
In Fluorn, the only microphones were Gunter's micro
phones to his tape recorder and it was like that in many, many
places; we didn't use microphones. Because the r?om ere
small and were built like that. As far as the church m Gottmg
en is concerned, it is a dream, because it's pure old Gothic,
with the buttress system of the Gothic church. The builders of
those churches measured from the floor to the ceiling in inter
vals that were related to scales based on Pythagorean and
Euclidean mathematics. Probably Anthony Braxton could ex
plain that to you better than I do. Wish he was here for that
reason. I don't understand that all. But I do know from my
readings that the floor to the ceiling scales look like that. Rid
ing around in Germany and looking at a lot of bridges, we sw
that bridges are pretty much the same and have the same pnn
ciples as they cross a body of water, from one side to th other.
And you have some bridges where you have two mam stan
chions, one on one side, and one on the other. Then we saw
another nice one somewhere down near Passau with just one
main stanchion in the middle. I said, 'Look, Gunter! There's
your bass violin, a violin bow ... ' The bridges ust be built on
the same principle. Because if you stretch a stnng ou and you
cut it off halfway, you got an octave and then you JUSt keep
substracting from it and you get small elements like that.
When I am in these churches or the moment I see the room,
I can look out and tell what the sound is going to be like.
56
Sometimes that's all I need. I don't even need the people to be
right or have a good audience. I just have to have a good
sound in a room and I can do my job. I am there to enjoy what
I am doing. I have to sleep on it the next night. And get up
with it the next morning on my mind. But some places are
built for the listeners to hear the music and for the players to
hear it. Most churches and cathedrals have that quality. Some
caves do. The ones that have the round, domed ceilings. Bam
berg had a nice place, too; for that reason. Really nice sound.
No mikes-just Gunter's tape recorder. But the sound! I
could hear my sound go out and corning back and there was so
much time in between it. It was the reverberation. You can
answer yourself. That's what I did. I played call-and-response
with myself. I play according to what is happening. The acous
tics of the room; how I feel about whom I am playing with;
who is there. All these things: temperature, humidity, and
what I have eaten at the right time of day.
What about breathing e;xercises?
No, that didn't come about until I started playing the oboe.
Then I found out that I had to get into breathing in a very
specific way. Until then it was, 'Don't blow up your jaws!' But
later on; I start to find out that there are certain ways to
approach breathing. The oboe was the instrument that really
helped me to develop a tight embouchure. I got a good
embouchure. I think, that my embouchure, my grip on the
saxophone mouthpiece, is equal to some people's fabulous
57
 technical ability, when they go up and down; my ability to
manipulate this sound and the colors that come out. I think it's
a good embouchure. I think, I got one of the best. If I am
satisfied, then maybe it's OK. I am not putting myself on a
pedestal, nothing like that, but people respect me for what I
think. Because I always base my ideas 'and opinions on what's
real, rather than what I feel. Sometimes you may not feel right
about something you are doing. But the result is what counts!
Like on some of the jobs I played. Sometimes I don't feel right
about them, because things are bad, like, let's say, the light
ing, the acoustics, things like that. But in the end, when every
body is satisfied then that's all that matters.
That is reality then?
That's when a man is really a man, when he can rise above
prejudices and difficulties, minor difficulties, and pick out the
best of a thing. I know a lot of people, I have a lot of friends,
who disappoint me in a lot of ways constantly, but I can look
thru the disappointment to the core of their being and see
what's really fine there. And if there's something really fine
then that's good enough for me.
Perhaps we can come back to your formative years, Marion. _}'.au
grew up very close to the Universities and Colleges. You we_re lzvzng
on the boundaries between the two worlds: Black and white, poor
and rich educated and non-educated. Were you ever confronted
with the;e contradictions in a very vivid way?
Oh, I mean, I've always been confronted with it. Because in
58
I'.
America some neighborhoods are very nice and clean. Then
some are very bad. But what I have to do, being who I am, I
have to constantly pass from one to the next. There was no
single environment for me. There never was and there never
can be. I have to pass from one to the next. And so, when I am
in an environment where people don't have as much as the
others do, then I am one of them. And when I am in another
environment, where people have more than other people, I
am one of them, too. But not from the standpoint of what I
have-that's material-but from the standpoint of my mind:
education. In other words, if I had anything about myself that
places me on highest level with people it would be my educa
tion; and my talent. Since I don't have money I have no prob
lems passing from one level of society to the next; and when I
am in an area of life, or society, where people don't know very
much and aren't very educated; it's no problem because I ad
just my language. When I go home to visit people in my fami
ly, I adjust. That's one of the secrets of Black life, their ability
to adjust, right away, to whatever situation they find them
selves in. So, I am confronted with that, yeah, because I still
move around thru' all levels of society. I have not found myself
in one environment only. And I never will. Because I want to
be that way! At this point in my life I can't live in a place that's
all bad or all good, or an all Black community, or an all white
community. Right now I am in the middle of the crossroads.
I have always been there; but I didn't know it. I'm never
entirely in one community.
59
 the same time people start to deliver milk. You kno w this
s!nce I hve been here. It's important for me to go out ther
Does segregation bother you?
bother me. I segre hke that m the morning. What I do when I go out like this in
Ignorance bothers me. Segregation doesn't the morning I go out and watch people going to work. And I
want to be around.
gate. I take myself from people that I don't look at them. And I try to see if I can tell the ones that love
; people who have
I segregate myself from all sorts of people their work; a nd the ones, who don 't. The ones who want to go ;
e idea of segregation
habits that I don't want to acquire. So, th the ones who d on't want to go. I have a lot of things I look at, I
segregation. What I
for me has nothing really to do with racial look for. Some of the things I see in people I am not lookin
mean, how people
hate about the racial situat ion is ignorance. I for bt I just see it. But I like to watch people mostly in th!
ple are evil. We are
can be so ignorant thinking that Black peo mormng when they get ready to go out and become their
people like anyone
human beings like anyone else. We are fine 'other' selves. It's not their real selves, but their 'other' selves.
e . We h v p eo ple who accom
else. We have all type s of peopl
a e
wh acc omplish nothing.
plish much in life. We have peopl e o Do you thnk that this wareness in observation is a recent develop
s muc h more than most ment,_ having to o with your interest since two or three years in
But for the most part we've done o
whe r we cam e from. Yet the drawing, or was zt always there?
people have, who came from e
t, that i k ws this but can't real-
world is somehow so ignora n t no
It was always there. I am a sociologist, I mean, a natural
ly accept it. anthropologist and sociologist. My curiosity before I started to
, and I find a lot of
Sometimes I travel around playing jazz draw was about the behavior of people. Now, it's about forms
l y be cause when I'm
people are disappointed with me. Simp wledge. and shapes, as well as behavior; how people go about things.
ng for other things, like kno
not into music; I am loo ki Wha t they wear. I've always been curious about people. I'm
hat I lik it. I like to
I go to the museum. I live my life the way _ very arefully at them and enjoying what I see, trying
t e
ts and look lookmg
i th str
get up early in the morning and go out
n e ee
to see somethmg that people won't say with words. I've always
that I d n't hav t d o it;
at people going to work. Thank God,
o e o
mys lf. But been examining society and people. So, I think, I have a
; hat I w rk f r
that I can go where I want to go t o o e
s to go . I
strong leaning to ward being a sociologist.
v ryb dy s s ar
I get up every morning when e e o el e t t
I am :ery much interested in Man. In the same way as all
up. I get up, because _
cannot stay in bed when society gets soc10logists are, except I make no theories about Man. I make
elf. I get up and I start
that's my way of paying tribute to mys no conclusions about Man. And I have no therapy that I want
ver I'm doing. I start at
my own work. That's music, or whate

61
60
to offer to Man; that I could say to someone, 'Now, man, now,
woman, this would make you better!' I have nothing to say to
people about that, whatsoever. You have church, you have
the government, and you have educational institutions; as
well.
I am an observer. Sometimes I am in the world, and a lot of
times I am not. But, I am there. All the time looking. And
listening. What I see, and what I hear-those are my two
greatest senses. Looking and listening to me is very important.
I enjoy those two senses very much; and, in order to listen and
look, one must do a lot of walking. So, I walk a lot.

62
 for local firemen and fraternal organizations. In addition to
Phillis Wheatley to write a poem to 'S.M., a young African
these banners and insignia, he painted portraits and land
Painter on seeing his works.'
scapes. He did a number of portraits of Abraham Lincoln
In eighteenth-century Maryland the Negro artist Joshua
wo my have himself sat for one of the originals. Supportin
Johnson painted portraits of many of the rich whites of the
this claim, Bowers' relatives have mentioned a check made out
state. These paintings were characterized by a kind of decora
to him in Lincoln's own hand. The unredeemd check is still
tiveness often seen in rococco and baroque painting. An oil,
reputedly in the possession of its Philadelphia owners.
'Mrs. Andrew Beckford Bankson and Child,'2 done about
Rbert S. Duncanson, whose mural style recalls the pano
1780, shows mother and daughter bedecked with jewels,
ra1c effects of the Hudson River School, was obviously in
sedately poised on what may have been a piece of Sheraton
spired by poetry. One of his mural landscapes was done for the
furniture studded with nails. Johnson's painting is considered
Longworth Museum between 1843 and 1851; this museum
in the finest tradition of American primitive art.
;ater beame the Charles P. Taft Museum. In 1843, he painted
The Tnal of Shakespeare.' It now hangs in Cleveland the
II artist's home. 'The Latos-Eaters' brought him international
ury there were many fae, and when in England, Tennyson (whose poem had in
Near the beginning of the nineteenth cent spired the work) invited him to the Isle of Wight. He returned
gs at other job whil
free Negro artists who earned their livin to America after a brief period of expatriation and later died
. Rob ert M. Douglas, Jr., m Phi
painting in their spare time while a patient in a Detroit hospital for the insane.
but also became a recog
ladelphia, painted signs for a living, dward M. Bannister, of Providence, was the first Negro
reminiscent of Thomas
nized painter. His portrait style was pamter to win wide recognition based on prizes won in exhibi
1833, Douglas made _a
Sully, the white Philadelphia painter. In tions. He was born in Nova Scotia in 1828. He lived in Boston
d Garrison. Because his
lithographed likeness of William Lloy fo a while, earning a living making prints. These prints sold
wn of them has been
works have been lost and what is kno fairly well and he was able to open a studio where he practiced
ity of his work is uncer-
learned by hearsay, the aesthetic qual as a professional artist. He showed regularly in Boston Art
tain. Club exhibitions. His landscape 'Under the Oaks' won a med
was also a sign
David Bustill Bowers, a cousin of Douglas, al at the centennial exposition of 1876 in Philadelphia.
Born Janu ary 16, 1820, in Phi
painter who became an artist. The period of Negro art until the emergence of Henry Ossa-
des emb lems and bann ers done
ladelphia, his early work inclu

71
70
amen when he is through. "3 There were other Negro painters
who also subscribed to the artist's life. Many secluded them
selves in local studios; others went abroad where the presence
of sympathetic attitudes gave their lives more meaning, made
it easier to create. William H. Johnson chose Norway, where
he married a Norwegian girl. There he painted those beautiful
Norwegian landscapes which suggest that he might have
known, or have been inspired by, the work of Edvard Munch,
the Norwegian expressionist.
Mural art afforded many Negro painters the opportunity to
express themselves in epic scope. Most of the murals painted
were evidence of an awakening interest in Negro life. These
gigantic works were also evidence of a trend toward formal
design. In the Thirties, certain prominent Americans had
begun to show interest in materials relating to Negro life and
folklore. Under grants from the Public Works Administration
and certain philanthropic bo(jies, many Negro artists were
commissioned to do murals for various institutions and public
buildings. These murals show Negro life and history in
America.
Several Negro artists distinguished themselves in this
medium. Aaron Douglas, Hale Woodruff, Charles Alston and
Charles White were the most significant. Douglas did 'Evolu
tion of the Negro Dance' for the Harmon Foundation. Charles
Alston executed a work under a WPA grant from the Harlem
Hospital, showing the progress of medicine from magic to
modern science. Hale Woodruff painted the 'Amistad' murals
74
for Talladega College. He also painted a mural for the Trevor
Arnette Library at Atlanta University; this work depicts the
progress of the Negro in the arts. Charles White's mural, 'Five
Great American Negroes,' done in 1941, is now the property
of the Museum of Modern Art in New York.
Few Negro artists have been interested solely in the medium
of church murals. One young Negro artist, Aaron Miller, has
devoted himself entirely to painting in this genre. His work
seems very much like the work of certain painters of the
Renaissance, especially that of Piero della Francesca.
m
It has probably been in the medium of sculpture that the Neg
ro artist has achieved the highest level of creativity. The ear
liest manifestations of Negro American sculpture were certain
tools and pieces of furniture which the Negro artist in colonial
America fashioned for practical purposes. Slaves of the early
part of the nineteenth century were also known to have pieces
of pottery which they had made themselves. Some of these
survived the Civil War and are now the property of the
Museum of Modem Art and the National Gallery of Art in
Washington.
The first important Negro sculptor was a woman. Edmonia
Lewis, born in 1845 near Albany, New York, attended some
classes at Oberlin College before she went to Boston, where
she took her first lessons is sculpture with Edmund Brackett.
75
which won the William E. Harmon prize for distinguished
achievement in the fine arts among Negroes in the first exhibi
tion. Over the years the foundation has created a permanent
general collection, which probably includes the largest single
collection of Negro art in America.
While the Harmon Foundation was presenting annual art
exhibitions, Atlanta University was becoming an art center.
Hale Woodruff, one of the leading American Negro artists,
went to Atlanta in 1939 to become professor of art at Atlanta
University. In 1941, under Woodruff's direction, the universi
ty began having annual art shows. He and other painters in
Atlanta formed a small group which gave encouragement to
one another. Some of Woodruff's best woodblock prints were
made during this time, roughly from 1937 to 1939. Several
members gained a reputation outside Atlanta. Wilmer Jen
nings, most widely known for his woodblock prints, and Fred
Flemister were outstanding members of this group. Others in
the group were Jewel Simon, Thomas Jefferson Flannagan,
June Hector and John Biggers-all promising painters who
have won prizes in the Atlanta University shows.
The work of Hale Woodruff, Wilmer Jennings and Dox
Thrasher brought Negro woodblock printmakers great esteem
in the late Thirties. Woodruff and Jennings and their Atlanta
contemporaries were members of the 'outhouse' school. (This
group, especially Woodruff, produced prints based on racial
themes. They included lynchings, but at other times showed
merely rustic scenes of Atlanta back streets, especially those
78
near the university.)
Howard University has also played an important role in .
furthering Negro art. Dr. James Herring inaugurated the uni
versity art department and gallery. After his death, James A.
Porter became head of the art department. Porter has written
a definitive book on the Negro in modern art. Alain Locke,
noted for his studies of the Negro's contributions to American
culture and art, was also instrumental in Howard's fine art
program. James L. Wells, known as the dean of Negro wood
block printmakers, teaches graphic arts there. Lois Mailou
Jones, David Driskell and Albert Carter make up the other
faculty members in the art department. Lois Jones is well
known as a deft water colorist who paints exotic Haitian
scenes. David Driskell paints Georgia pines allegorically in a
style reminiscent of Cezanne.
Another talented printmaker was James L. Wells of Ho
ward University whose woodblock print 'African Fantasy,' an
exotic print of a female head, is considered by many to be one
of the best prints done during that time.
Howard University's efforts toward providing a comprehen
sive art education have resulted in some very talented young
Negro painters, most of whom are yet developing. Mildred
Thompson has studied in Germany. William White, an ab
stract expressionist, sold his prize-winning painting 'African
Metamorphosis' to the Nigerian government. Lloyd McNeil
and Leo Robinson are two recent graduates of the Howard
University art department who show considerable promise.
79
make up some of those who were moving further into abstract
painting. James Weeks' painting 'The Musician' won first prize
at a recent Howard University show. Virginia Cox paints misty
abstractions in pastel hues. Walter William's 'Fighting Cock' is
the best woodblock print done after the work of Wells and the
'outhouse' group.
No doubt Bob Thompson is now the most striking and ori
ginal young Negro painter to be shown widely since Hale
Woodruff or Jacob Lawrence. He is both a primitive and a fine
technician. In a recent review of his work, Art News says that
"Thompson's creatures, winged bats of human features, loom
and hover in a space that might be a spectacle, a performance,
in which a naked figure (reclining, falling, upside down, strick
en, leading) is a force of centrifugal attraction".5
Recent sculpture by Barbara Chase and Richard Hunt, like
the painting of Negro artists of the late Forties and Fifties,
evidences a departure from racial themes in favor of aesthetic
principles that transcend the art of social commentary. Bar
bara Chase constructs profoundly, at times reminiscent of
Giacometti, but always very personal. Richard Hunt, like Bar
bara Chase, chooses to work in metal. He uses tubular fittings
to construct his pieces. As in 'Hero Construction,' these tubes
and cylinders give an organic feeling to inorganic substance.
Today many young Negro artists are interested in a kind of
painting based on interior action, which manifests itself in
splashes of color, serving them as a kind of symbolic repre
sentation. This approach is expressionistic. Jack Whitten, Joe
82
Overstreet, Sonny Hodge, William White and Larry Compton
make up the New York group. These painters are all colorists
of gigantic proportions who have no qualms about using nearly
a full tube of color to express a fleeting emotion.
The future of the Negro artist in America is now almost
solely limited only by his or her ability to create. M<1-ny Negro
painters still go to Europe, but not so much for environmental
freedom as for the benefits of seeing and feeling the cosmo
politan attitudes which Europe has always held for arts and the
artists. Today Negro painters are painting and showing in the
major cities of America and Europe.
NOTES
1 Porter,
James A.; Modern Negro Art, Dryden Press. New York,
1943, pp. 19-20
2 Ibid.,
p. 207
3 Miller,
Henry; Remember To Remember, "The Amazing and
Beauford DeLaney," New Directions, New York, 1947, Invariable
p. 21
4 Dover,
Cedric; American Negro Art, New York Graphic Society
1960, p. 46. Quoted from Seldon Rodman, 1947 , New York,
5Johnston, Jill; Reviews and
Previews, Art News, Vol. 61, No. 5 (Sept., 1962),
p. 11
83
There may also be "constructions," original instruments.
Everything is legitimate or, as Leo Smith puts it, there is
'' equality of all instruments." 1
Each station is different because each musician is a different
person; if, by choice, they play the same instrument, what and
how they play will be different. No competition is involved
because there are no solos; the event is what matters. The
event involved x number of people, not one person!
The introduction consists of four measures. Three are
played using whatever notes/sounds the musicians want; the
fourth measure is conducted, resolved on a long decrescendo.
After the introduction each musician plays a phrase that he
will develop, on any instrument at his "home" station. He
then proceeds to another station-it does not matter which
one as long as there is no one there-where he plays a cqn
tinuation of the phrase played at "home." The musicians visit
each station, developing and accompanying phrase-fragments
played at preceding stations, until a complete cycle has taken
place. Then it begins again and may go on for as long as music
is desired."
I suggested time units of thirty to fourty seconds at each
station. This fragmented time-span accounts for the snatches
of melody that appear and disappear, yet seem always to hov
er over the total experience. It is confusing to the listener at
first hearing and perhaps many times after, yet it is possible to
unravel the threads when one has listened enough to separate
the various instruments from each other in terms-of timbre.

88
 In order to realize fully what I intended, it was necessary for
me to bring together various aspects of music that have
nothing to do with what is created (the result: sound and
rhythm), but rather with how it is created (the tools: instru
ments, organization and purpose).
The necessity of creating new sounds and rhythms led me to
instrument construction, as well as to reclassifying other in
struments, not according to texture, but by level of technical
proficiency attained by the performer.
1. Primary instrument: one on which the musician has
reached "virtuoso" technique.
2. Secondary instrument: one, perhaps closely related (sax
ophones and clarinet, for example) on which he plays with less
skill (technically). ..
3. Miscellaneous instruments: various sound and rhythm
making devices that, although they add color to a composi
tion, require no great skill. These may be assigned to those
who are adept at keeping rhythms or making the right sounds
at the right places.
There are also "constructions:" original musical instruments
such as my multiple percussion units (made of various mate
rials, such as skin, wood and metals) and the many varieties of
such pieces made by performers Roscoe Mitchell, Joseph Jar
man, Don Moye, Fred Braceful, Anthony Braxton and Leo
Smith. (Not included in this category are flutes of various sizes
and textures made by creative musicians like Donald Rafael
Garrett.)
90
In traditional African societies-whence we camel-music
functions as an unifying force that binds people, artistically
and culturally, to a set of values that are passed on orally.
Music functions both as a preserver of tradition and a means of
recreation. Djinji's Corner is recreational, that is, it is enjoyed
for the sheer fun of engaging in the particular kind of exchange
on which it is based (i.e. collective improvisation).
While the music may seem "western" in terms of the sound
textures, it is non-western in every other aspect, in the use, for
example, of:
a) Instrument construction
b) Improvisation
c) Non musicians as "assistants."
One of the reasons the use of these assistants seems strange
to most people, who are doubtful if the idea can work effec
tively, is that most formally trained musicians are like mem
bers of exclusive clubs. They feel that, if they had to spend all
that time and money mastering the theory and technique of
music, those who have perhaps only "banged on" or "blown"
certain instruments for fun are not competent to perform
seriously.
Although in formal performance all who participate have
reached a common level of proficiency, there will always be
those who, with the same training, will be less proficient than
others. These differences make it difficult to establish rapport
when musicians play together for the first time. Each musician
feels the need to be, or to be considered, "the best, first or first
91
 In 1964, the Ellington orchestra toured the Middle East, he aswr to that question lies in the realm of imagination,
India and Ceylon. This period witnessed the appearance of a _
his 1magmat10n. To get to it, we would have to have the honor
number of compositions written as impressions of foreign of Mr. Ellington's presence.
countries where the orchestra performed. His thematic mate
rials were intended to give a musical rendition of those parts of
NOTES
the world. Again, he chose the suite form. Giving us musical
impressions of nations in suite form, he composed The Far East 1 Hospers, Joh ; Meaning and
Truth in the Arts, University of North Carolina
Press, Chapel H11l, 1946, p. 9
Suite, The Virgin Islands Suite, The Latin American Suite, The New 2 Langer,
Susanne K.; Feeling and Form, Scribner's Lyceum Series,
Orleans Suite, The Goutelas Suite; and Togo Brava Suite. 1953, p. 23 New York,
3 Stearns,
Marshall, The Story of Jazz, Oxford University Press New York
m , , 1972,
We have s;en that "form" plays an important role in the music ;willia_ms, Main; The Jazz Traition, Mentor Books, 1971, p. 82
of Duke Ellington. His compositions have been written pri detr, Andre; Jazz: Its Evolution and Essence, Grove Press, New York, 1956,
p. i
marily with regard to it and to the singular manner in which he 6 Ibid,; p. 81
combines orchestra and soloist. 7 Ibid.; p. 87
8 Ellington,
This form of orchestral arranging is referred to by him, as Edward Kennedy (Duke); Music is my Mistress, Doubleday
York, 1973, p. 175 ' New
"mixtures." By "mixtures," he means the manner in which he 9 Ibid. p. 181

organizes instrumental parts. These "mixtures" are the means 10 Ibid. pp. 181/182
"Ibid. p. 182
by which "expressive" elements are given consideration within
the composition.
They are related more to "pure sound," and "personal
sound," than they are to formal elements.
We have also seen that, when considering jazz from the
perspective of "expression," that there are numerous devices
and effects utilized.
What makes Ellington's music so great?
Form?
Expression?

124 125
MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE
Mysticism has at least as many definitions as it has categories,
differing greatly with respect to the nature of the experience,
and not always in agreement as to what the experience really
is. The difference between what is referred to as a mystical
'idea' and what is referred to, on the other hand as mystical
'consciousness,' is where this inquiry begins. What is 'experi
ence' defined as when referring to mysticism? Both 'mystic'
and 'mysticism' are defined in terms of 'experience,' and 'con
sciousness.' Experience relates to something directly had or
felt; whereas consciousness is related to cognizance of the ex-
perience itself.
A mystical 'idea' is a belief, opinion, or proposition based
originally on mystical experience. Very often, the connection
between 'idea' and 'experience' is forgotten by those involved.
The point is that the mystical experience is a product of a
nonintellectual mode of consciousness. 'Idea' has to do with
things that occur within the realm of conceptual intellect. The
mystical experience may be of the same nature as that experi
enced by someone else-but it is interpreted differently by
each person having the experience. Even though mystics may
disagree as to interpretations of their experiences, they agree
that the genuine mystical experience is formless, colorless and
odorless, in short, nothingness.
In order to attain this state of being wherein all is without
form, color and sound, is necessary to completely suppress all
130
sensory-intellectual phenomena. Speaking of the absence of
sensory-intellectual consciousness from true mystical experi
ences, Walter T. Stace has this to say:
"This mystical consciousness is destitute of any sensations at all.
]!or does it contan any concepts or thoughts. It is not a sensory
mtllectual consciousness at all. Accordingly, it cannot be de
cribed or an_alyse in_ trms of any elements of the sensory
mtellectual, with whzch zt is wholly incommensurable. "I
Since the mystical experience itself is non-sensory and non
intellectual, most mystics agree that the experience itself is
ineffable. That is to say, words cannot explain the experience.
The central point on which all mystics agree is the attain
ment of an "ultimate non-sensuous unity in all things." This
state of unification is what Stace calls the state of 'Undiffe
rentiated Unity.' In the state of undifferentiated unity, all
sensory-intellectual consciousness is totally suppressed, until
there exists "a oneness or a one to which neither the senses
nor reason can penetrate." This 'oneness,' or 'experience of
the unity,' is the ultimate goal of all mystics. Oneness is sought
in nature or in some. form of religious experience in which
oneness is seen as unity with a deity.
William James begins his lecture on mysticism by asserting
quite early his conviction "that personal religious experience
has its roots and centre in mystical states of consciousness."2
We can see immediately that he sees a connection between
religious and mystical consciousness. Unlike others, instead of
attempting to define the 'true' mystical experience, he outlines
131
-------
- ----------------- --
music was a step in a new direction.
When one has experienced a spiritual awakening, such as
John Coltrane's, he is witnessing a change in his or her charac
ter that takes place through the process of conversion. Con
version can be gradual or sudden. Coltrane did not indicate
whether or not his conversion was gradual or sudden. In light
of the period of 'irresolution' to which he refers, it seems to
have been gradual. The onset of the awakening may have been
sudden, but the process of it seems gradual. The process of
religious coriversion according to William James effects a
"change of place in our systems of ideas, from more central to
more peripheral, and from more peripheral to more central
parts of consciousness." 8 If the idea of God exists on the
periphery of our normal consciousness, it means most likely
the 'self' is central. As conversion takes place, the idea of God
which was a peripheral existence in the beginning becomes the
focus of our central consciousness, while the 'self' moves away
from the center to the periphery where God existed before
hand. One final quote from Professor James with regard to
conversion which is:
"To say that a man is 'converted' means, in these terms, that reli
gious ideas, previously peripheral in his consciousness, now take a
central place, and that religious aims farm the habitual center of his
energy."9
Beginning with A Love Supreme, we can see that "religious
aims" did "form the habitual center of John Coltrane's ener
gy." The recordings made between 1957-1967 suggest to us
136
that "religious aims" formed not only the center of Coltrane's
personal life, but they formed the center of his music. For it
was thrugh music that he wanted to make people happy and
share with them A Love Supreme. When religious conversion or
mystical experiences are authentic, a permanent change of
character is recognizable in the person having the experience.
Between the time of his spiritual awakening and his death in
July 1967, his music and life were significantly changed. From
all indications the change was permanent.
It is not possible for me to say exactly what effect Coltrane's
spiritual awakening had on his daily life. However, with re
gard to his music, his conversion did seem to have had a
permanent effect brought on by a combination of natural
musical growth and his spiritual awakening. As we shall see
the liner noes mentioned already, the titles of his recording
_
and ded1cat10ns, all expressed his concern with religion. He
seemed to have offered his music as a form of propitiation to
God for being able to make people happy through it.
Identifying the authority to whom Coltrane addressed him
self religiously is more.easily ascertainable than whether or not
his conversion was sudden or gradual or even the effect it had
on his life. Coltrane addressed himself to God as the poem A
Love Supreme attests.
137
THE CONCEPT OF LOVE
Peace and love of God as the creator and embodiment of uni
versal love are central themes of A Love Supreme. By examina
tion and comparison of his thought as revealed in the
aforementioned poem with the thought of selected mystics, we
should be able to determine in language which, if any, of the
original mystic Coltrane is closest to. Was his spirituality non
sectarian? Or did it lean toward monism or pantheism? Before
attempting these determinations, it would help if we focus
briefly on the basic characteristics of love in religious thought.
The love of God is basic in Christian theology. It requires
consideration in religions other than Christianity-just as it
does within Christian thought. The idea of love is not a new
one. In ordinary life, it has to do with specific things such as
persons and relatives or with the erotic or sensual. The closest
we come to understanding the kind of love referred to by
Christian mystics and by Coltrane is through seeing a kind of
natural relationship between ecstasy and religious fervor. Let
us consider briefly what R.C. Zaehner has to say:
"In Christian mysticism love is all-important, and it must be so,
since God Himself is defined as love. In Islam too, because Mus
lims inherited more than they knew from the Christians, it assumes
everincreasing importance despite the pre-dominantly terrifying
picture of God we find in the Qur'an. In Hinduism this religion of
love breaks through in the Gita and in cults of both Visnu and
Siva, and, of course, in the worship of Rama and Krishna as in
carnations of Vis nu. 'I am the origin of all,' says Krishna in the
138
Bhaga_vad-Gita, 'jrom Me all things evolve. Thinking thus do wise
me'!, '.mmersed zn lve, w?rship Me. Thinking of Me, devoting
thezr lzves to Me, enlightening each other, and speaking of Me al
wys, they are contented and rejoice. To these worshippers of
Mme, always controlled, I give steady mind by which they may
pp_roch e, for I loved them first.' This and very much else that
zs szmilar will be found in Hindu literature, yet always the shadow
of a self-satisfied monism stalks behind it. "10
If as he says above "in monism there can be no love," we
can assume by his affirmation that Coltrane was not monistic
but theistic. As we said, theistic religions all have as thei;
goal, "the ecstasy of union." Coltrane's approach is theistic
"since God himself is defined as Love." It was to God that he
addressed himself in A Love Supreme. God as love is basic to
Christian, Muslim, and "all theistic mysticism."
An interesting interpretation of love is that of Daniel Day
Williams. He sees three basic forms, all associated with Christ
ian mystics. Each form is basically different. What they seem
to have in common is intensity and urgency. Adherents of
each form seek fulfillment through love arduously.
One form is attributed to St. Augustine. The other two, to
St. Francis of Assisi and Martin Luther.
They are the Augustinian form, the Franciscan form, and
the evangelical form.
A cursory examination of the poem, A Love Supreme, shows
us clearly that love as seen by Coltrane is not of the evangelical
form. Evangelistic love is based on a kind of urgency that
seeks fulfillment through reforming entire systems of thought
139
in light of what it feels is the better form. In that case, we can
rule out evangelistic love with regard to what Coltrane meant
by A Love Supreme. The only system of thought that he sought
to reform was his own.
The concept of love formulated by St. Augustine is known
as the Trinitarian concept. He believed that God was the
father of Jesus Christ; Father and Son being united in the spirit
of God. The Trinitarian concept "is the life of absolute love."
The interpretation of love as.felt by St. Augustine is, accord
ing to D.D. Williams, as follows:
"To love anything, when that love is rightly ordered, is to love that
thing or person in God. Nothing is self-sfficient but Go_ d. For
Augustine, therefore, all truly human love zs at the same time the.
love of God, and its natural uncorrumpted intent is to seek the
fruition of every finite and proximate love in the absoluteness of
God's being/'11
The Franciscan form of love seeks the spirit of love "directly
in imitation of Christ." The spirit of love is a regenerative
force that requires non-conformity with cultural systems of
"power and privilege." St. Francis of Assisi chose the path
taken by Jesus:
"The deepest note in the way, however, is sounded only when we
come to the identification of the lover with Christ. It is the union of
the servant with the master, of follower with leader, of forgiven
sinner with the lord of mercy. This union is the source of love's
power."11
The evangelistic way of love in the Christian tradition, seeks
140
a return to the "purity of the Gospel." The element of non
conformity with existing orders is also (as it seems to be in the
Franciscan form) here:
"But in contrast to the Franciscan way the Protestant Reformation
understands the love of God as grace, as forgiveness given to man,
rather than as a spirit which can be directly and immediately real
ized in man. Justification comes by faith of God's grace. It comes
to man who is incapable of loving God and his neighbor through
his own power or will. "13
The evangelistic point of view prevails in reformist
orientated religious experiences. It inspires the kind of zeal
associated with Martin Luther's Reformation of the Roman
Catholic Church. Therefore, evangelism is not directly related
to Coltrane's form of love. Nor does Coltrane suggest that he
is seeking forgiveness. But rather, he seemed to be seeking
something that can be "directly and immediately realized in
man." His form of love rhymes more closely with St. Augus
tine's: "The fruition of every finite and proximate love in the
absoluteness of God's being."
A LOVE SUPREME
Poems use word symbols that can be ordered so that meaning
is made more clear than it can be in music. That is to say,
words can be defined by other words. Music cannot be defined
by other sounds because no two sounds are exactly alike.
Music only begins to mean something when it expresses or
evokes images of emotions directly experienced, and only in
141
mysticism, which sees in God, a "perception of the world as
transfigured and unified in one being." Although there is no
indication of any specific religious preference; God (to whom
it addresses itself) puts it in perspective with Christianity in so
far as he addressed himself to God through love. This is what
Zaehner meant by saying in a previously quoted passage, "In
Christian mysticism love is all-important, and it must be so,
since God Himself is defined as love."
In addition to A Love Supreme, there are other recordings
exemplary of this period of Coltrane's spiritual development.
In fact they are extensions of what began with A Love Supreme.
I have selected three for commentary in light of the direct
relationship they have to the spiritual awakening and evoluc
tion of John Coltrane as man and musician.
OM
In Hindu religions, 'Om' is the mystical equivalent of the dei
ty. It also represents goodness and truth. We are given two
interpretations of the meaning of'Om' in the liner notes. Nat
Hentoff, who wrote them, explains it this way:
"Interestingly, among Tibetans and iwrth rn Buddists, tee is a
mystic formula, Om mani p adme hum, (<;Om, the 1ewel, is zn the
lotus: amen'). "16
Coltrane's remarks, made in an interview with Hentoff,
gives us more ground to stand on with regard to the meaning
of'Om.'
146
"Om fl'l;eans the first vibration-that sound, that spirit which set
everyth:ng else into being. It is The Word from which all men and
everything else comes, including all possible sounds that man can
make vocally. It is the first syllable, the primal word, the word 0+
1
Power."17
'Om' differs from A Love Supreme in several ways. Yet, it is
not entirely different. Structurally speaking, it is an extended
improvisation that develops in two parts. A Love Supreme was
based on a four-part form with each part having its own mean
ing Harmonically speaking, it is 'freer' than A Love Supreme,
_-
whrc has a modal basis. Both utilize narration. A Love Sup
reme rs chanted. The introduction to 'Om' is spoken by Col
trane as though it were a prayer with members of the ensemble
reciting in concert with him.
MEDITATIONS
Each of the titles on this recording form the basis of a particu
lar area of thought in religious theology. The Father and The Son
and The Holy Ghost is related to the Trinitarian concept of love
as seen by St. Augustine. Speaking again to Hentoff, Coltrane
reveals even more clearly how well he understood what he was
driving at:
"Once you_become aware of this fore for unity in life, you can't
evrforget zt. It_becomes part of everything you do. In that respect,
thzs zs an extenszon_ of A Love Supreme since my conception of that
fore: keeps changing sape. My goal in meditating on this through
music, however, remazns the same. And that is to uplift people, as
147
 much as I can. To inspire them to realize more and more of their
capacities for living ... " 18
ASCENSION
The Day of Ascension in Christian theology is the 40th day
after Easter, the day of the bodily ascent of Jesus into Heaven
took place. This day has many other meanings.
It is the day for the riddance of illness in Sicily. In many
parts of Bavaria, and in Munich, Germany it is a day for the
riddance of evil. Evil, represented by a person, is chased and
beaten until the crowd is satisfied that the Devil in the com
munity has been driven away.
We cannot truthfully say what Coltrane had in mind when
he composed and recorded Ascension. A Love Supreme spelled
out clearly what he had in mind with regards to religion. Ascen
sion did not because the liner notes were written by poet-critic,
A. B. Spellman, not by Coltrane.
Ascension was recorded July 26, 1965.
The personnel included John Coltrane, Archie Shepp, John
Tchicai, and myself, saxophones. Freddy Hubbard and Dewey
Johnson, trumpets. McCoy Tyner, piano. Art Davis and Jim
my Garrison, contra basses, and Elvin Jones, drums.
This is the recording that most people ask me about when I
travel. For many people, myself included, it was a milestone
recording of a direction that jazz took in the 1960s. For others,
it was an another step in an unknown direction that left many
148
of Coltrane's most ardent fans confused and in states of dis
belief.
CONCLUSION
We have seen that during the year 1957, John Coltrane experi
enced a 'spiritual awakening.' What effect did this 'spiritual
awakening' have on his life, his music? His life it seemed
changed to the extent that he began articulating, verbally, hi
'feelings' about God, Love and Religion. It has been also said
that he wanted to open a Center for music that would be a
place where not only musical excellence would be the goal, but
spiritual values would be sought there also.
The effect that Coltrane's 'spiritual awakening' had on his
music can be seen in several ways. The music of this period
paid homage to religion and religious 'feelings,' in the titles of
compositions such as Transition, Dear Lord, Prayer and Medita
tion, Peace and After, and so forth. In the music itself, could be
heard: the use of :modes, chanting, the use of 'atonal,' or 'free'
harmonies, and rhythmic patterns that are characterized by an
absence of 'regular' meter, yet filled with another kind of in
tensity not heard before Sunny Murray and Rashied Ali, Col
trane's last drummer.
We have also seen that while Coltrane was knowledgeable
about Eastern religions and the merits therein, he addressed
himself to God. Therefore, we can assume that he was Christ
ian in his concept of God and Love.
149
 In language, it appears that Coltrane's concept of Love and NOTES
God was related to the Trinitarian concept of Love as ex
pounded by St. Augustine. The Trinitarian view sees God as {e, Walt er T.; The T eachings of the Mystics, Mentor Books, New York, 1960,

the Father of Jesus Christ. Father and Son are united in the 2James, William; The Vari .
eties ofReligi0us Expen ence, Collm
rary, Great Britain, 1960, p. 366 s-The Fontana Lib-
Spirit of God. This is the concept of 'absolute Love.'
3 Ibid.; p. 367
A Love Supreme is the affirmation of Coltrane's 'spiritual 4lbid.; p. 367

awakening.' 5Ibid.; p. 368

It is the affirmation of 'absolute Love.' ;tto, Rudolph; The Idea of the Holy, Oxford University Press, London , 1925,p.
Finally, I would say that Coltrane's 'spiritual awakening' ';;!::t d;!J'ot s to th
e e R ecord-Album A Love Supreme,
ABC-
was the opposite of a 'mystical experience.' As we have seen,
8James, William; op. cit. , p. 199
mystical experiences are characterized by the ineffable. They 9Ibid.; p. 201
cannot be explained. Also, mystical experiences do not always 10 Zaehner R c M t'c s ed and Profane, Oxford University Press, Lon
involve religion, nor feelings of religion. Very often mystics . on,_ 1?67,'Q;oti'# /;;: 1;t -
y:{hf:, el Day; The Spirit And The Forms Of Love, Harp er &
see the 'One,' or 'God,' or 'Nirvana,' in nature itself. - Row, New
12 Ibid.;
A spiritual awakening is characterized by elements of 'feel p. 71
13 Ibid.; p. 76
ings' that involve genuine knowing, or awareness of the 'Holy' 14 Coltrane, John; op. cit.

and the 'Sacred,' that God is an "All-righteous, All-provident, 15 Ibid.

and AU-loving person, with whom a man may enter into the ::; toff, Nat; Liner Notes to theRecord-Album OM, ABC-Paramount, 1967
.
most intimate relationship. " 19
:n toff, Nat; Liner Notes to the Re cord-Album Meditations, ABC-Paramount,
That, I believe, is what John Coltrane meant by A Love Sup 19 Otto, Rudol
ph; op. cit. , XVII
reme.

150
151
 WHEN AFRICAN SLAVES arrived in the new world, they
THE IMAGERY OF THE BLUES still spoke native languages. During the gradual process of
HAS A RICH VARIETY OF EXPRESSION acculturation, they learned English, bringing to it unique tone
WITH WIDCH IT CONVEYS THE DIRECTNESS qualities-unlike those in English, and dialects that gave the
OF IMMEDIATELY IMAGINED, OR FELT, new language a special kind of rhythmical and tonal vitality it
POETIC IMAGES. did not have before. The various dialects brought to English
SOME OF THE THEMES ARE by African slaves cultivated a new type of dynamics in song,
BAD LUCK, and "a singularity in figure of speech which makes Negro
music what it is." 1
LOVE, Afro-American singers make a practice of altering words in
SEX, various ways so that songs will be affected in various ways.
SEXUAL PROWESS, Alterations were used to enrich tone quality and dynamics, by
HOMOSEXUALITY causing stress to fall in places where it did not fall before.
AND BI-SEXUALITY, This contributed to the "singular rythmical" quality in Afro
AND SO FORTH. American songs by giving the language a kind of piquancy and
SEXUAL IMAGERY IN THE BLUES IS lift it did not have before.
Afro-American singers use many sounds for one word, de
CHARACTERIZED BY THEIR CANDIDNESS
pending on personal taste, and the dialect of a given singer's
WHILE At THE SAME TIME, BEING community. For example, take the word going. It may be pro
SHROUDED IN INNUENDO nounced gon', or gonna, depending on who is singing the song,
AND DOUBLE-ENTENDRE. and the dialect of the singer's parent community. A more com
plete example of the use of sound would _be to change I'm going
to go, to I'm gon' go, (as many Afro-Americans do) or I'm gon-
na go.
If we take the statement, I'm not going to study War no more,
and change it by altering the words by the addition of length
ening letters to I ain't gonna study War no mo', we can see that

155
154
th ere is a rhythmical quality present in the latter, that is not us, because it shows that the emotions of the person and
r to make th e e sounds which the emotion brings forth are one ."4
present in th e 'correct' English version. In orde
"add syll bl s o carry o:it ce:tan Dr. James has classified cries into four categories, each dis
alterations, th e singer would
a e t

hims lf bu did xist w1thm tinct from the oth er.

feelings which he h ad within e t not e
They are :
the language." 2
a, changes it to I
For example, the addition of 'a'; I ain't gonn 1. The Plain Cry:
mpl woul d be ch ange A!'t that
ain't a gonna. Another ex a e to Is an_ unadorned song where notes and words come together in
gai ? Y the add1t1on of
good news, to Ain'ta thata good news , a rare mstances. In this form, you will hear microtones that have
g the sentence or "very small change in pitch and rhythm. "5
the letter 'a ' to the end of certain words, g1vm
he addition of the 2. The Florid Cry:
phrase even more lift than it had before t This form joins notes and words more than the 'Plain Cry' and
ex tra letter. it moves about melodically more than the former.
certain letters,
Another effect is achieved by the elision of 3. The Wordless Cry:
wou ld ch nge to H_allelu, Is a wordless song. It is usually very short, and coloratura in
or phrases. For ex ample, Hallelujah , a

fi al syll bl , -jah. This cr nature.

Hallelu, Hallelu; by leaving off th e n a e
4. The Coloratura Cry:
, whic h is n i g al part of Afn-
ated th e effect of re petition
a nte r This form has no words at all; only ontes. "I think this is the
can music. most genuine of all cries, when the cry itself is all that is done
ffect of language
"If one wishes to be informed about the e
and no words are attached to it. The cry becomes complete,
e a few instanc es of
because in that case it is not limited by text or by any assign
on Negro music and song, one needs to tak ment from men. It looms as its own being and image, and con
the effec: of ln
songs themselves."3 In order to furter show veys to the person who hears it anything that can be conveyed
guage on Afro-American song, I will tak
e D r. J ames advice ?Y the sound, so that the listener also becomes a part of the cry
e relation of l gu age to text and m terms of creating something for himself."6
and focus, hereafter, on th
an
(Forexamples of these 'cries,' I suggest listening to ASCH Re
g form s.
music in various Afro-American so n
cords, album No. AA702-AFRO-AMERICAN MUSIC, by
Dr. Willis James.)

THE CRY Field Hollers, Whoops, and Arhoolies fall into the category
y, which proves to us of cries. The emphasis is on notes rather than on words. They
The first sound that a baby makes is a cr may be simple, or coloratura in nature .
from baby is of great importance to
that "the c ry itself arises a

157
156
RELIGIOUS SONGS Or he may say:
I'm ready fo' to cross ol' Jordans stream.
two catego
Afro-Americal) religious songs are divided into D eliverance through power, or association with power, are
ng . Spi itual songs are recurring themes of Spiritual songs . Vety often, the power of
ries: Spiritual songs and Gospel so s r
y a impl in tru c tu re and har God is expressed through healing, miracles, and so forth:
usually sung a capella. The re s e s

c nt nt. G p l ng s a re c ontemo
mony, and have poetic o e os e so
When I was blind and could not see,
oy th use f enric h e d harm omes
rary religious songs that empl e o King Jesus brought that light to me,
are com
that resemble popular and jazz tunes at times; and is a case in point.
autho . Spi itual s hav e be en, for the m ost
posed by living rs r
The method s and devices by which the aims of Spiritual
part, composed anonymously. _ . songs were achieved, are referred to by James Lovell, Jr ., as
of these
In order to fully appreciate the total expression the "Agencies and Model s of Transformation." The Spiritual
s as comprehensive folk poet-
songs, " on e must read the song poet employed many 'objects' as devices for transformation.
r y, not primarily as isolated outbur
sts."7 For example:
the n eed
The most fundamental theme Spiritual songs, 1s
in
t th ugh ev luti o nary p roces ses, 1. Hammer and nail: Dey nailed his han' an' dey nailed his feet.
for change. Change is sough ro o
2. Ladder: We are climbing Jacob's ladder, every round (rung)
in natu . The singe r ' s own t roubles,
but are not revolutionary re
goes higher and higher.
t of change in
or the troubles of the community, are the subjec 3. Gates: Meaning the heavenly gates, or the golden gates of
Spiritual songs. Heaven, through which, every slave wished to go.
4. Fountains: Been drinking at the fountain or I'm goin' to drink
In the case of himself, the singer declares: at the crystal [ountain, _or There is a fountain filled with blood.
All my troubles will soon be over with, Other agencies and mod els of transformation in Spiritual
soon be over with, soon be over with,
songs are : roads, streets, lanes, ways and byways, bridges, riv
all my troubles will soon be over with,
all over this world. ers and streams, keys, broo ms, windows, arks, chariots, bands
of angels (who would come and get the p eople), trains, biblical
D eath is also used as a symbol of chang e. Again, the process
characters of great strength and wisdo m, places, and the
is evolutionary:
magical world of nature .
Death's gwinter lay it's icy cold hands on me.

158 159
the relation of language to music, and texts to language.
BLUES SONGS
The most common form of blues uses the verse as structure for
its musical and verbal contents. Verses usually rhyme, but not
always. An example of the use of rhyme:
What you gain' to do, Mama, when your troubles get lie mine?
Take a mouth full of sugar, and drink a bottle of turpentine.
Mine and turpentine are the rhymed words.
The earliest blues developed from field hollers, worksongs,
and prison songs. Men would engage in creative singing with a
leader and themselves as a chorus. Or, they would simply sing
individually, to lessen their burdens, or to pass away the time.
An example of a leader-chorus song:
Leader: You ought to hear what the letter read.
Chorus: Here, rattler, here.
Leader: That letter said my woman is dead.
Chorus: Here, rattler, here.
he leader-chorus song given above is in call-and-response,
as many songs of this type are. The leader states his case or,
proposition:. what the letter said. Th. chorus. relying 'ere,
rattler, here,' gives the effect of repet1t10n, which 1s a desirable
factor rhythmically in Afro-American songs and instrumental
music.
Tue verse form of the blues most commonly used is the
162
three line, A-A-B pattern. The first line (A) is repeated, in
order to re-emphasize the condition stated in the first (A) line.
The third line (B) comes in contrast to the first and second
lines and is usually rhymed. The third line either resolves the
condition stated in the first line or leaves things where they
are. For example:
A-Times so tough, ain't even got a dime!
A-Yes, (he insists) times so tough, can't even get a dime!
B-Times don't get better, I'm going to lose my mind!
Even though the three-line verse form is most characteristic
of blues songs, sometimes more extended forms arose. The
more proficient the blues singer became in English; the more
he was able to extend the verse form from three lines, to more.
The best exponent of extended verse would be Robert John
son, known as the 'King of Delta' blues singers. Any of his few
recordings will show examples of this.
Blues songs make extensive use of poetic devices that are
part of the Ei:tglish literary tradition.
Some are:
Rhyme-the emphasis is on sound.
Simile-for direct comparisons.
Metaphor-for indirect comparisons"'
Apostrophe-when inanimate objects are addressed as hu
mans.
Metonymy-the use of a related idea for the idea itself, and
Pers9nifications-attributing human characteristics to in
animate objects. Giving names to musical instruments,
163
 and addressing abstract beings. NOTES
The imagery of the blues has a rich variety of expression !James, Willis; Afro-American Music ' ASCH Records No AA702 , New york,
with which it conveys the directness of immediately_ imagined, 1970, p. 2
2Ibid., p. 2
or felt, poetic images. Some of the themes are bad luck, love, 3 Ibid., p. 2
sex, sexual prowess, homosexuality and bi-sexuality, and so 4 Ibid., p. 2
5 Ibid., p. 2
forth. Sexual imagery in the blues is characterized by their 6 Ibid., p. 4
candidness while at the same time, being shrouded in innu 7Lovell, John Jr.; Black Song: The Forge and the Flame, Mac Millan co., ew
N
endo and double-entendre. York, 1972, p. 220
Odo ' Howard W. & Guy B. Johnson; The Negro and his Songs ' The new Amer-
For example: She moves it just right! ican LI brary, New York, 1969, p. 279
The keyword is it. 9 Ibid., p. 279

Or, I want some of your pie!

The key word is pie.
The former phrase is a descriptive one, while the latter is
intended to seduce. Loved ones are often referred to in culi
BIBLIOGRAPHY
nary terms such as jelly roll, peaches, the apple of my eye, corn
bread, licorice stick, sugar foot, sweetie pie, etc. Coltrane, John; Liner Notes to the record album A Love Supreme ' ABC-
Paramount Records, 1964
The relation of words to music is of great importance in *Dance, Stanley, Ed.; The World of Duke Ellington ' Charles Scribner's Sons '
Afro-American songs. The special treatment of words and New York, 1970
*Dankworth, Avril; Jazz: An Introduction to its Musical Basis' Oxford University
music.is a feature of Afro-American songs from religious ones, Press, London, 1969
to the blues. The language that slaves had to learn, was en Ellington, Duke; Music is my Mistress, Doubleday and Co. ' Inc, Garden C-ty
New York, 1973
1 ,

riched ,by dialect, and by poetic imagery.
Afro-American songs are known the world over for their
folk qualities and for their intrinsic musical expressions.
*Hanslick, Edward; The Beautiful in Music ' Bobbs-Merrill' Co., Inc , New y0rk,
1957
H ff, Nat; Liner Notes to the record album OM, ABC-Paramount Records,
;
Li ; Notes to the ecord album MEDITATIO NS, ABC-Paramount Records,
6
Hodier, Andre; Jazz: Its Evolution and Essence, Grove Press, New York, 1956
_ _
Hospers, Jon; Meamng and Truth m the Arts, University of North Carolina Press '
Chapel Hill, 1964

164 165
did all the piano music. This didn't come out of a spontaneous
feeling. It was a process of thought; and, even calculation.
Do you compose at the piano?
I took piano lessons years ago, but I took them because I was
required to take them. But when I wasn't required to do it, I
found that I enjoy myself when I spontaneously sit down at the
piano to play it. I know where everything is on the piano, not
as a pianist. I can't connect things in the way you do, Terence,
because you had this training. But I can put it together, slowly.
And I could play this piano music. But it doesn't float the way
it floats when someone who plays the instrument gets it. Some
times I enjoy sitting down at the piano, picking out little tunes,
just fooling around, to see what comes out of it. That's how
some of my pieces came out.
Has the way you approach the alto sax changed over the years,
colored by the fact that you got into ethnic instruments?
I think, what happened is that when I played these other in
struments, what I am really doing is not trying to become
another instrument playing. I'm just gathering information
that I can put into my saxophone bank. And so, to play on the
guitar, or on African instruments and all those otherthings ...
they have become part of a reservoir of things. But when it
comes out thru the saxophone it's pure saxophone music. It's
not the piano, or anything else. But it is the result of the other
sound experiences. Some of the things I hear, that I play, I
176
know it comes from the guitar. The sound does change a little
bit, maybe an inflexion or so...
The same is true when playing the piano. The way you
keys o: h?ld your body affects the quality of sound. This strike the
is why all
real pzamsts have a very individual touch, like Elmo Hope,
Bud
Powell, Hasaan Ibn Ali, Ellington, Monk ...
Uh-huh, their approach! Their approach is not only
the way
you think of playing it. Like you said, it's how you sit
or how
you stand, the poses and the stances. With the saxophone
now
I am beginning to do something, use a position, a playing
posi
tion, that I never used before. That is to raise my horn up
high
in the air, like Rollins. Lester Young would do this too,
to
project this sound up. And it feels good. I have to get used
to
it. It is very hard. It's an unusual position, the muscles,
the
hands. But I found that it gives me another feeling. It change
s
the level of where the sound goes out from. But it gives me
a
more feeling of uprightness, that I am standing proper now.
Most of the saxophone players bend over toward the floor. I'll
do that. But the only time I do that is when I have to hold on,
to it all, to complete a phrase so that I won't break it up, I'll
bend all the way down to the floor. But, basically, I find out,
the straighter I stand, the higher up I raise the bell of the horn,
then the more brilliance I get out of it. And besides the bril
liance of it, the pose itself, the stance itself, is a good stance.
177
why I am not composing now. When I get to be an older man, It's not for no reason that somebody like John Coltrane developed
that's then the right time to get back to composing and then the way that he did. But going back to what you were saying the
paint, and maybe writing. I just move from one thing to the church was always there.
other. All Black people, I say all, I mean, a larger percent because
But Jesse Owens did three things better than everyone, and not everybody is doing everything. There's some peple that
all ,
if it had been only one thing, then the freakishness of it on t go to church. But they have strong ties on the family
would have been less. In other words, he was an outsta nding side. But all Black people have a strong religious education
man, but once he would pass all that, it was outrageous. because for us, the church is the main institution in the com
s
But if people knew, how we grew up, and how our parent munity; it' the place where you go for religion and baptism,
easily how he could do
teach us to be, they'd understand very for the social part of the socialization takes place there. You
and
all this; how these basketball players could jump so high have group meetings, sports, and picnics. It always is the place
do all these things . I mean, it
stay up in the air so long, and where people are corning together.
. It comes from home. It
comes out of our basic enviro nment All people, of 3:1! ags- When you get to the school, you
l.
comes from church. Everything! And it comes from schoo have the age classifications, and even sex classifications. So,
l,
Those three: home, church, and school. Because in schoo you are put according to your age, and sometimes even
respec t
you learn to run and to jump. At home, you learn to according to your sex. But in the home and church, it's all
learn to respec t
yourself, and respect others. In church, you there, you are dealing with everybody. From babies on bottles
your reach and touch
God, and those things that are beyond to old men and women with long grey hair. So, everybody is
abili
and knowledge. And in school you learn to develop your always together there in these twoplaces: home and church.
ties. The church is the rallying point for the community. It's every
This rootbed is still very obviously valid including for yourse
lf. The thing! It's whre you learn religion, and also where you learn
church... ? about Black history. The Spirituals and songs. That's where to
music go t? lear about Black people and their history. Some of the
Well, it's the only conservatory that we have. For Black _
The church is our conser vatory . Spmtuals IS where our mythology is. All of our myths are in the
there are no conservatories.
Spiritul. The myths about rivers and water. Everything is in
Not only for the music but ... the Spmtuals. I love them. They remind me sometimes of the
... for the spirit. fliad and Odyssey of Homer, because it's all there: the river

194 195
 ays about getting to the
Jordan and the river Styx. It's alw
t r iver. On the other side of
other side. Everybody's got tha
nd!
everybody's river is the promised la
to
the past, symbolizing a way
Yes, we all know of rivers, rivers of r life. The myths of old
bette
escape, to get out and to start another, the promised land. There
somehow reflect people's desire to find ever changing element-in
an
fore rivers have been interpreted as
trast to a worl d whic h doesn't seem to change at all.
sharp con
to the music in the Sixti
es
Do you think, that what happened k with the old traditions?
'New Thing' or 'Free' jazz -w as a brea
d new music, what peo
Well, OK, the music of the Sixties an
c s t ar ts in the late Fifties and
ple called avant-garde, that musi
nyth ing. Most people think that
goes on. It's not a break with a
it is breakin g w ith the
when something different comes that
g when something new
past. No, no, no! What's happenin not
things , n ot new mu sic,
comes-and I'm talking about new se- wh en s ome
ing in an universal s e n
new anything, I'm talk t it
king with the p ast , bu
thing new comes it's not that it's brea
means t hat it is clos ing a gap.
reaches a certain level, a
There comes a time when a man
s a s high as he can. He stops
level in what he is doing and goe
to go any further. But that
because he doesn't known where
stops, he needs to wait for
doesn't mean he is finis hed. He her.
another generation or
two to come along to take i t on furt
ne month or mor e to go
There was a time when it took o , you can go
coach. Now
from New York to California by stage e n a bre a k wi th
Has tha t b e
there in five hours by jet air plane.
',, ,'
I'
,',

196
 Photo Credits
p. 7 Marion Brown, 1983-Photo: Terence Beedle
p. 12 Marion Brown-Photo: Dieter Dorer, St. Georgen
p. 28 Marion Brown, 1983-Photo: JuergenA.Schmitt
p. 31 Du Bois-Drawing by Marion Brown
p. 43 Mother Dear-Drawing by Marion Brown
p. 55 Marion Brown-Photo: Courtesy Gunter Hampel
p. 63 (from 1. to r.) JuergenA. Schmitt, Marion Brown, Terence Beedle--Photo: Eike
Beedle
p. 89 Afternoon OfA Georgia Faun-wood-cut by Steve Hannock
p. 92 self-made instrument-Photo: Marion Brown-Archive
p. 95 self-made flutes-Photo: Marion Brown-Archive
p. 'J7 self-made percussion instrument-Photo: Marion Brown-Archive
p . 99 another self- made percussion instrument-Photo: Marion Brown-Archive
p. 103 Recollections-Batik by MichaelA. Williams
p.108 Edward Kennedy 'Duke' Ellington-Photo: Bill Smith, Toronto
p.119 Drawing by Marion Brown
p. 172 Ogotemmeli-Photo from the book 'Conversations with Ogotemmeli' by Marcel
Griaule
p. 186 Marion Brown-Photo: Bill Smith
p. 197 Marion Brown-Photo: Dieter Dorer
p.203 Marion Brown-Photo: Juergen A. Schmitt
p. 210 Marion Brown-Photo: Juergen A. Schmitt
p.248 (from 1. to r.)Ambros Jackson, Barre Phillips (foreground), Marion Brown, Gun
ter Hampel, Steve McCall, 1969-Photo: Gunter Hampel-Archive
p. 251 (from I. to r.) Marion Brown, Barre Phillips, Gunter Hampel, 1969-Photo: Gun
ter Hampel-Archive
p. 253 'Gemini': Marion Brown & Gunter Hampel 1983-Photo: Dieter Dorer
p.259 Gunter Hampel & Marion Brown 1969-Photo: Gunter Hampel-Archive
p. 275 Marion Brown-Photo: JuergenA. Schmitt
p. 283 Marion Brown-Photo: Chris Hardin
Photos of all of Marion's drawings: Chris Hardin
Cover Photo: Dieter Dorer
Special thanks to Bernd, Bill, Chris, DieJer, Eike, Gunter, Joachim, Maceo,
Michael & Steve

284 285