Exited, Episode Three: The uncertain future of segregated workshops

(BEEP)

Karen Shakerdge, reporter, speaking on phone

Okay, recording, go ahead. You were saying you have two choices.

Ellie Bradley
Im very stuck between a rock and a hard place as to how to find a program that fits her.

Karen Shakerdge
I just called up Ellie Bradley. Shes concerned about whats going to happen when her daughter, Teale,
ages out of school. Right now, shes at a school for students with disabilities called Holy Childhood.

Karen Shakerdge, speaking on phone

If you could start looking at programs now, where would you go or what would you want to see?

Ellie Bradley
So theres work programs within Holy Childhood that I had hoped she would then head into Holy
Childhood is a very safe environment. She knows it. She knows the school, they know her, they know her
abilities, they know her disabilities. So for me, having her there forever, basically, was probably my goal.
And now theyre being shut out because the government thinks it is wrong to have people not out in the
community.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge, speaking on phone

And the kind of argument that that federal government is making to close those down is, is what
exactly?

Ellie Bradley
Money. That the people are being segregated, that theyre not making a fair minimum wage all the
things that really just dont mean a thing to me. Because her safety is my most important need.

Karen Shakerdge
Teale has cerebral palsy and a few other serious health conditions. Because of that, she probably wont
get a typical job after high school. Ellie is telling me she wants her to go into something called a
sheltered workshop a place where people with disabilities go to work.
These places are controversial, partly because they're usually segregated from the rest of society. But
that's one of the things that Ellie likes about them.

Ellie Bradley
I saw that she wasnt comfortable with the typical kids. I saw that she wasnt herself with the typical
kids.
I mean, theres many of us who want our kids in a safe environment, without the typical public.
Karen Shakerdge
The secludedness of these places isn't the only thing thats unique. Most workers get paid below
minimum wage.
After decades, workshops are changing. Some are being phased out. And some are integrating. Whether
people who are working in them like it or not.

Ellie Bradley
So if you had talked to me in the beginning, oh, I was a huge advocate of integrating kids. But life and
circumstances changed me.

Karen Shakerdge
This is Exited. A podcast about growing up and trying to find a place where you belong when youve
been told your whole life that youre different. Im Karen Shakerdge. Im a health reporter with WXXI in
Rochester, New York.
After talking with Ellie, I had all kinds of questions. Like: Just how secluded are these workshops? What
does it even look like to desegregate hundreds of thousands of people? And what about the money?
How is it legal to pay a whole group of people below minimum wage?
Ellies daughter isnt aging out of the school system for another few years, so I went to find someone
who works inside a sheltered workshop now. Someone who might have to leave.
I started at ArcWorks in Rochester. Its been around since the 60s.
The workshop is huge. Massive ceilings, bright lights. Forklifts are whirring around off to the side near
stacks and stacks of boxes.

(VOICE OVER LOUDSPEAKER: Louwanda, please call 138, Louwanda ...)

Karen Shakerdge
Carrie DOlivo is sitting at one long table. And her machine is not cooperating.

Carrie DOlivo
Trying to figure this out, why its not working.

Karen Shakerdge
Yeah, it looks like it may be a little stuck.

Karen Shakerdge
Today shes re-bagging. Shes got a box of bags. Each bag has 100 bags in it. She counts 50 of those and
then puts them in another bag. Then she places the new bag of 50 on a contraption that is supposed to
tie the bag shut with a yellow piece of tape.

Carrie DOlivo
There we go, lets try again

Karen Shakerdge
Shes doing this for one of ArcWorks customers, Thermo Fisher Scientific.

Karen Shakerdge
Are there jobs that you especially like doing here?
Carrie DOlivo
Not really.

Karen Shakerdge
Nothing in particular thats like your favorite?

Carrie DOlivo
No, none of these are my favorites.

Karen Shakerdge
Is there something different that youd like to be doing?

Carrie DOlivo
I dont really know.

Karen Shakerdge
Carries 26 years old. Shes been here for five years. Technically, shes not working. Shes in training.

Off to the side, Steve Leach is supervising production.

Steve Leach
These guys, these guys are great. They know right what theyre doing. I just hand the work out, really,
and they know right what to do. You know, I really just kind of guide them a little bit they know right
what to do and how to do it. I really just get em to work.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge
The people enrolled in this workshop get job training and different kinds of services because ArcWorks is
part of a bigger organization that offers all kinds of programs for people with disabilities. The work
center is just one of their employment programs.
The point of these workshops, on paper, is to give people a launchpad. A place to get skills and move on
to a job outside.

Carrie DOlivo
I work here at ArcWorks on Lyell. And I like it here.

Karen Shakerdge
Why do you like it here?

Carrie DOlivo
Cause I can do all different kinds of new jobs and meet new people and get paid.

(MUSIC)
Carrie DOlivo
I want to stay here as long as I can, but Im not sure how long but

Karen Shakerdge
Why are you not sure about how long?

Carrie DOlivo
Because they're changing. They're trying to have me go out into the community to get a job and Im not
ready yet. But I will soon, when Im ready.

Karen Shakerdge
When some students with disabilities leave school, higher education or a regular job is not an option. A
sheltered workshop is one way to get work experience and training. Carries been at ArcWorks since she
started aging out of the school system. It was part of her transition plan as a student with a disability.

Carrie DOlivo
I don't feel like I have one. But I do. I was born with a disability so, I'm not sure, really.

Karen Shakerdge
Why do you say that you dont feel like you have one?

Carrie DOlivo
Cause I ... Im not sure but I just I dont feel like I have one, but in my, in my head, its like no, I
do, but I dont think I dont think that much about it. I just do my life and do what I gotta do, so.

Karen Shakerdge
ArcWorks is planning to integrate. Theyre planning to shed their status as a sheltered workshop and
become a full-on business. But Carrie and her family are worried that might threaten her place there.

Wendy Marcille
Its good that theyre integrating, I have no problem with that ...

Karen Shakerdge
This is Wendy Marcille, Carries aunt and legal guardian.

Wendy Marcille
because shes still in a familiar place. Its not shaking her and rattling her to go someplace in the
community when she has to start over again, and thats just terrifying to her.

Karen Shakerdge
For Carrie, especially, ArcWorks has been a source of stability.

Karen Shakerdge
So, um, where are you from? Whered you grow up?
Carrie DOlivo
I grew up in Chili with my parents. But one of my parents passed away. My mother passed when I was
18. And my dad is on his own in a house in Chili.

Karen Shakerdge
Carrie had been in a transition class for a few weeks when her mother died.

Wendy Marcille
We took them after school and did homework and showers and dinner and love love love, and all that
stuff.

Karen Shakerdge
Wendy and her husband, Ron, did that for a whole year. Thats how long it took to get legal
guardianship.

Wendy Marcille
It was tiring for everybody, but it was the best that we could do, because the kids needed somebody to
love on them during that time. They were so broken, so hurt. And it was just devastating for the whole
family.

Karen Shakerdge
So you guys have been through a lot. Youve been through a lot, a lot, a lot.

Wendy Marcille
Well, we have to say that God is good. He takes us through these hard times, and yeah, theres a lot of
tears and theres a lot of frustration because your basic sense is, I just want them to feel better. I just
want them to be better. But we cant do that thats a process they have to go through.

(MUSIC)

Kathy Moylan
So for many, many, many years, a sheltered workshop was considered a wonderful support and service
to people with developmental disabilities.

Karen Shakerdge
Kathy Moylan oversees ArcWorks.

Kathy Moylan
It gave people an opportunity to work, to make meaningful contributions to our community and I think
what weve seen in the past several years is the model has almost in a sense been vilified or perceived
as less, much less than desirable some of which for good reasons.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge
One reason for this cultural shift was something that went down in Georgia.
Two women with developmental disabilities needed habilitation services. In order to get them, they had
to stay in a psychiatric ward. And they sued, saying that was discrimination, a violation of the Americans
with Disabilities Act. The case -- Olmstead v. L.C. -- finally landed in the Supreme Court in 1999.

U.S. Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist, on archival tape:

Well hear argument now

Karen Shakerdge
The womens lawyer argued that Georgia had to offer services in the most integrated space possible.
Heres Justice Sandra Day OConnor questioning the lawyer, Michael Gottesman.

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day OConnor, on archival tape:

Well, Mr. Gottesman, what do we mean by the most integrated setting?

Michael H. Gottesman, on archival tape:

Well, the... in the... in adopting the regulations, the attorney general gave us a definition of what that
means, and it's printed on page 21 of our brief.
An integrated setting, within the meaning of this provision, is a setting that enables individuals with
disabilities to interact with nondisabled persons to the fullest extent possible.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge
The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the two women. Heres Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg reading the
majority opinion.

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, on archival tape:

Unnecessary segregation of persons with mental disabilities perpetuates unwarranted assumptions that
such persons are unfit for or unworthy of participating in community life.

Karen Shakerdge
This was a big deal because it was specifically saying: People with disabilities have the right to be as
physically integrated as possible. The federal government has since told states theyve got to get people
with disabilities out of segregated spaces or theyll lose major funding.
But in the case of sheltered workshops, its not just that people are physically separated from the
community. Theyre also being paid on different terms.
Most people at work centers make $2.50 an hour or less. And thats legal. Because of something that
started way back.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge
Way, way back in 1938.

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, on archival tape:

After many requests on my part, the Congress passed a Fair Labor Standards Act.
Alanna Sakovitz
The point of it was really just to set labor standards for the country.

Karen Shakerdge
This is Alanna Sakovitz. Shes a workers rights attorney and something of an expert on the Fair Labor
Standards Act.

Alanna Sakovitz
It was part of the New Deal-era legislation, so a lot of it was recognizing that there are certain minimum
standards that should be set for workers.

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, on archival tape:

That act applying to products and interstate commerce ends child labor, sets a floor below wages and a
ceiling over the hours of labor.

Karen Shakerdge
This is President Franklin Roosevelt, talking in one his fireside chats.

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, on archival tape:

It is the most far-reaching program, the most far-sighted program for the benefit of workers that has
ever been adopted.

Alanna Sakovitz
You know, I think it was progressive for its time. I think it was well-intended. I dont have a doubt that at
the moment it was passed, I mean, the Fair Labor Standards Act, when it was passed, was hailed as one
of the most progressive pieces of legislation ever, and from that time, the 14(c) was part of it.

Karen Shakerdge
The 14(c) was meant to get people with physical and developmental disabilities out into the workforce.
But it did that by giving organizations the option to pay workers below minimum wage.

Alanna Sakovitz
So its the 1930s, and its very different in terms of not just what kind of opportunities are available for
people with a disability but also understandings and assumptions about people with a disability.

Karen Shakerdge
The 14(c) made it legal to pay people based on how much they do, how much they produce. Heres how
it works.

(SOUND OF TICKING CLOCK)

Karen Shakerdge
It starts with employers doing something called a time study.
Alanna Sakovitz
Which is when they take a stopwatch and measure the productivity of an experienced worker who
does not have a disability performing the same or similar tasks under similar conditions as the person
with a disability would be performing.

Karen Shakerdge
The time study sets a standard for how much to pay per thing that is produced in a shop.
So, for Carrie

Carrie DOlivo
I do piece work here. I do a lot of different jobs. Like labeling bags or bottles.

Karen Shakerdge
Shes paid per piece.
The idea is that with training, people will increase their rate of productivity, make more money and
eventually move on to employment outside the workshop.
But that idea hasnt exactly held up.

Meaghan Held
To the people that we support here, working in the community is very scary.

Karen Shakerdge
This is Meaghan Held, Carries case manager at ArcWorks.

Meaghan Held
A lot of the people that we support here have been here, really, between 20 and 30 years. This place has
been stable for them, and this is something that they know.

Karen Shakerdge
A 2001 national study found that in one year, about 5 percent of people left for outside employment.
ArcWorks does have programs to get people out into the community more. Carrie, for example,
participates in a volunteer program.

Carrie DOlivo
And I go like a nursing home and I like going there and help people with their, with their, um, they play
with games. I might work there maybe, I dont know. Im not sure what to do.

Wendy Marcille
Carrie loves that. She loves being at the nursing home. She loves having a job where she can

Ron Marcille
... help someone

Wendy Marcille
be with people, and help somebody she loves it. Unfortunately, theres no program to do that with
her every day, I mean, all day long. She has to go to the workshop.
Karen Shakerdge
She says Carrie isn't crazy about all the parts of her job at ArcWorks it's a job. But there's stuff that
she really does like about it.

Wendy Marcille
She goes to the dances ArcWorks has a dance every month and she goes there, and shes the belle of
the ball. She just mingles and she chats and everybody loves her. Shes funny and she has a riot and that
builds her self-esteem. And then she goes to work the next day and its like ... (sighs) ... same old thing.

Karen Shakerdge
ArcWorks says that Carrie will be able to stay there, if she wants to. But things are changing. In the next
few years, sheltered workshops need to close, integrate or operate without federal dollars.

Kathy Moylan
We view this as a tremendous opportunity, actually.

Karen Shakerdge
This is Kathy Moylan again, who runs ArcWorks.

Kathy Moylan
Truly, our workforce will be far more integrated and inclusionary with everyone enjoying the same
privileges and opportunities that come with being an employee of a business.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge
I thought with all the movement toward integration that workers would be treated the same -- and paid
the same. But businesses will be able to continue to pay people below minimum wage -- for now, at
least.

Kathy Moylan
People will be working on the same work, side by side, but peoples productivity on that work may be
very different.
These are people who are receiving services. And I think thats the other distinguishing point from
possibly the person theyre working side by side with is not receiving services. So this person may be
receiving supports and services related to their health, to their emotional needs, to their behavioral
needs so its really not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Karen Shakerdge
Great. Is there anything else that youd like to add?

Kathy Moylan
Do I have anything else I want to say? I want a do-over.

Karen Shakerdge
Why? Are you not happy with how that went?
Kathy Moylan
Im not happy with that whole DOL part. I dont feel like I explained it well.

Karen Shakerdge
OK, well, if you want to try to explain it to me again, Im happy to ask you about it again, but I feel like I
understood what you were talking about, so ...

Kathy Moylan
OK well, I dont, I mean, I dont want to come across like were not being equitable or were not being
fair, because thats part of all that old perception of sheltered workshops -- like it was like people were
working for menial, or, you know, pennies, in a sense that organizations were taking advantage of
people with disabilities by utilizing that 14(c) certification. So I definitely do not want to give that
impression at all.

Karen Shakerdge
But do you think that your concern about coming across as kind that negative association has anything
to do with ArcWorks, or it's just the, its just the given fact that if you have people that are getting paid
less, it has certain ?

Kathy Moylan
It does have a certain connotation, and that is very understandable. It certainly is understandable. And it
certainly is true that some of the vestiges of what is defined as a sheltered workshop need to change,
need to go away.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge
Kathy told me ArcWorks came up with an integration plan thatll include 30 percent workers without
disabilities, 70 percent with disabilities. Its not yet clear whether the state will consider their plan
integrated enough.

(MUSIC)

Karen Shakerdge
When you said before that you feel like youre not ready is that something that you feel about
yourself or is that something that, like, somebody said to you -- oh, maybe we should maybe youre
not ready yet. Do you know what I mean?

Carrie DOlivo
I think so. Im not ready. No one else is saying that Im not ready. But its myself. In my head. I need to
time to figure out what Im going to do and stuff.

Karen Shakerdge
And do you think that you can continue working here until, until you figure that out?
Carrie DOlivo
Yeah, I think so.

(MUSIC)

****

Credits

To see photos and hear more episodes of Exited, go to our website: ExitedPodcast.org.

Im Karen Shakerdge. Exited is produced by me and Veronica Volk. Denise Young is our executive editor.
Juan Vazquez is our digital producer. Malinda Ruit is our photo intern.

Elissa Orlando is the senior vice president of television and news. Our news director is Randy Gorbman.

Thank you to David Hoff at the Institute for Community Inclusion at UMass Boston for all the help with
decoding CMS documents. That archival tape you heard is from Oyez and from the National Archives.

Next time on Exited

Leaving high school

Im gonna miss East regardless cause Im gonna miss everybody in the school, Ill miss.

and landing in something called a day habilitation program.

Its going to be a whole different thing once I leave from East.

Exited is a production of the Inclusion Desk at WXXI. The Inclusion Desk is funded in part by the Golisano
Foundation, supporting Move to Include programming on WXXI, and working toward a more inclusive
community.

This program is a production of WXXI Public Broadcasting, Rochester, New York.