Here's an article I wrote on counter weapons.

I try to come up with simple acronyms to

remember principles so when people train they have some basic guidelines to follow.
Must be the military in me. I believe I wrote this around the Presidential elections so
forgive the West Palm sacasm. I like adding a little humor to my articles. Infotaining you
might call it. I do not advocate trying to figure out counters for each attack. I rather drill
in principles to follow and when they are followed the counters will instinctively come
out. I teach that you can only be positioned in two places opposed to an attacker. Inside
his weapon hand/arm or outside his weapon hand/arm. Drill offensive attacks from those
positions until they are second nature.

We recently ran a crucible for one of our newly certified instructors. It's a night of hell to
physically and mentally exhaust the instructor. Towards the end we conducted weapon
attack scenarios that he had to defend against. When he tried to think and figure things
out he got slammed. We he just reacted to the immediate threat and let instinct take over
he was way more successful. The point here is the more you sweat in training, the less
you bleed in combat. Train, train, train, and let your body do what it was trained to do.
Trust it.

Counter Weapons – The ReACT Principle

By Bob Kasper

It’s no secret. When it comes to combative skill training counter-weapon techniques are
probably the most difficult to execute successfully. Why is that? Because you have more
than just the person to worry about. He’s attacking you with a deadly weapon and that
ups the ante quite a bit.

Having a person violently in your face is one thing, when he’s holding a weapon it’s
definitely another all together. The “pucker” factor just hit the roof and you’re
immediately under heavy stress load. At this moment in time you’re past muscle memory
skills will hopefully come into play and you’ll survive the encounter with a successful
offensive attack. And a part of that muscle memory skill should be the counter-weapon
ReACT principle.

The one thing that amazes me the most about Charlie Nelson is his ability to get out of
any situation that you put him in. He’d think for about a split second and then explode
into a furry of violence that immediately put you at the disadvantage. One time while in
his studio training I took a Redman gun, grabbed a handful of his shirt yoking him up,
pushed him against the wall, pressed my body against his, and shoved the gun under his
chin. He had no room to maneuver. Or so I thought. He became instantly still and then
exploded. I didn’t know what he did but it ended with my face smashed against the wall
and him holding the gun on me. However I do know this. What he did was ReACT.
Charlie never taught the principles of counter-weapons as ReACT. He taught technique
that included the principles. Learning and recognizing ReACT was a matter of breaking
down technique and analyzing the movements. So what is ReACT?– Redirect – Avoid -
Counter/Control – Take Away/Take Off.

Redirect. To redirect is to move the weapon away from the body. This is a simultaneous
movement done in conjunction with avoidance. This avoidance and redirection makes
space between us and the weapon. Not so much space that the weapon can be redirected
back against us but enough to avoid injury and set us up for an immediate counter-attack.
To give an example of this I’ll use a stationary knife assault scenario. The assailant is
holding a knife in his right hand with the blade edge held against the left side of your
neck. With our left hand we can simultaneously push his knife hand/arm to our left
redirecting and creating a further gap between the edge and our neck.

Avoid. The simplest way to explain this is to avoid that which will hurt you. The part of a
weapon that will hurt you is that part which is directed at you. On a stick it would be the
tip. On a knife the tip or edge. And on a firearm the barrel. Or as one of our NJ brothers
calls it – the nozzle. (Sorry brother, I couldn’t resist.) In this instance avoidance means to
move away from the deadly part of the weapon. If it’s a stick attack you do NOT want to
stay in the stick’s greatest energy path but move away from, in past, or directly under it’s
path. The same for a knife attack. Move the body part that the weapon is directed at away
from that weapon. In the above counter knife scenario we can jerk our head and shift our
weight to the right pulling our head/neck away from the blade edge. For a firearm it’s not
the weapon itself that will harm you but what comes out of it. So we need to move away
from the trajectory of the bullet. Avoid and Redirect are always done simultaneously.

Counter/Control. To counter/control is to counter by hurting him severely, and

controlling the weapon or the weapon arm. Some examples are: handgun – control by
stripping the gun away from the assailant and counter attack; stick – control by wrapping
the weapon wielding arm and countering with an unarmed attack; knife – control the
knife wielding arm simultaneously counter attack with an unarmed assault, then take the
knife away. The general idea is to control the situation with whatever it takes. Let’s put
Redirect, Avoid, and Counter/Control together. Again I’ll use the above knife scenario to
demonstrate how these principals work together.

Your back is against the wall. One scumbag is holding a knife to the left side of your
neck. He’s wearing his cap backwards with a “Vote for Gore” campaign button pinned
on. Another scumbag is on your right going through your pockets looking for money so
he doesn’t have to work for a living. He’s sporting a “I Love West Palm Beach” t-shirt.
Explosively you swing your left arm up pushing his knife arm away from you redirecting
the blade away from your body. Simultaneously you shift your weight to the right
creating a larger gap between your neck and the blade’s edge. Immediately without
hesitation you explode into the scumbag with a right hand chin-jab while the left hand
that is pushing his knife arm away simultaneously and violently wraps that arm to control
it. He goes out and collapses at your feet. You let go, pivot right and slam the other
scumbag with an ax-hand to the throat. He goes down and you split

Take Away/Take Off. When do we take away the weapon? That’s a good question. In a
handgun scenario it may be before the counter attack. Or it may be never. Peter Robins
and Paul Child, our Brit brothers from C.O.D.A. teach a course called S.T.A.B., which is
an acronym for Strategy & Tactics Against Blades. The following is a quote from their
excellent manual.

“Place a knife on the ground and it will not harm anyone – not until someone picks it up
to use. Bear this in mind and remember that it is the intention of the person behind the
weapon that you have to remove, before you attempt to remove the weapon from him.
Take away the intention, then take away the weapon.”

Charlie Nelson called this softening up. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Immediately
take away his intention. Hopefully that intention removal will put him out and there
won’t be a need to take away the weapon. In this case we would Take Off. Don’t hang
around and admire your handiwork. You never know who is lurking in the shadows. As a
LEO you may need to Take Away the weapon. But as a civilian you don’t need to if he’s
laying on the sidewalk checking his eyelids for holes. If you need to Take Away his
weapon hurt him first.

I can go on and on with this subject but I think you get the picture. Redirect the weapon
away from you as you simultaneously avoid that which will harm you. Immediately move
in to counter/control. As you move in enter with extreme pain. Then and only then you
have the choice – Take Away the weapon or Take Off. But as a victim without the power
of arrest think of this. You knock scumbag out, you take away his weapon, and a LEO
shows up with you holding a weapon standing over an unconscious “victim”. I don’t
know about you brothers - I’m taking off.

Jim Grover's SWAMP is actually one my contributions to the GHCA close combat
curriculum. I took the power development I learned from my traditional training back in
the 70s, which by the way was the same as Mr. Cestari, and broke it down into 5
principles. I tasked a few of my student instructors to come up with an acronym for the
principles and John Watson, a GHCA Senior Instructor came up with SWAMP. Stay
relaxed, Weapon frist, Acceleration, Move in the direction of the strike, Plunge your
body weight (drop step). I wrote a SWAMP article for the GHCA back in 96. If I can find
the disk it's on I'll post it. James - in what forum should I post it?

Bob

SWAMP
How To Make The First Strike Your Last
By Bob Kasper

A few years back I wrote an article which focused on the basic principles of close
quarters combat. In that article I gave a brief overview of SCOPE which is an acronym
for Simplicity, Control, Offense, Power, and Effectiveness. Each of these principles is as
equally important as the other. Take one away and you’ll have a hole in your combative
skills.
One principle which I feel needs to be emphasized is Power. No matter how fast or
aggressive you are if you do not possess power in your execution of technique, you’re
going to fail in stopping your assailant. Executing simplistic, effective techniques will all
be in vain unless there is a substantial amount of juice behind those techniques. Peter
Robins says the first thing to do in a violent encounter is to “take away the intention.” Hit
them hard enough, and they’ll completely forget why they were even there. The
following is five principles of power development that I use whenever I teach a
technique. Follow these and make your first strike the last.

A few months back my Instructors had the assignment to come up with an acronym for
the five principles of power development. John Watson came up with SWAMP.
S - stay relaxed
W - weapon first
A - acceleration
M - move in the direction of the strike
P - plunge your body weight into the technique.

Stay relaxed. Of all of the power principles this is probably the hardest to develop. I’m
not advocating to stay relaxed when someone is all over you trying to end your breathing
habits. It is learning to use your body at maximum proficiency. Staying relaxed is
essential for your body to move swiftly and economically. Explosive movement doesn’t
come from stiff, tense muscles. You need to stay loose. The key word here is
concentration. Concentrate on being relaxed before you explode into the technique.
You’ll find your movements to be much more dynamic.

Weapon first. This is another one of those hard to develop techniques. We want to throw
the weapon first so to not telegraph our intentions. Let him feel the technique before he
sees it. This is most important when executing a pre-emptive strike, which should be
100% of the time if possible. Although follow up strikes do tend to be a little more
difficult when moving the weapon first, this is no reason not to try. Following this
principle as often as possible will make your technique delivery much faster and more
powerful.

Acceleration. Acceleration is simply speed. Once you move do so as fast as your body
can and don’t stop until it’s over. This is most important on that initial strike. Here we go
back to the first principle of staying relaxed. Tense muscles move slower. Stay relaxed
and throw that strike as fast as possible and the results will speak for themselves. When
Kelly McCann cooks off on someone they are amazed at how much power he generates
for his weight. Folks, that’s 150 lbs. moving at warp speed. When you throw a technique,
throw it fast. Accelerate, and keep accelerating until it’s over.

Move in the direction of the strike. This past May at our 3rd Assault our AIs, taught the
unarmed section of our combatives training (Excellent job men!). I stopped the class
several times to point out the fact that their bodies were moving in the same direction as
the strike. Bodies were turning into axe-hands as well as moving upward with chin-jabs.
You can’t move mass into a blow when that same mass is moving in a different direction.
Fast mass is power.

Plunge your body weight into the technique. In order to do this you must be applying two
other principles: Moving the weapon first and moving in the direction of the strike. If
you’re not moving the weapon first your body is going to move and set before the strike
lands and results in your weight settling before the weapon strikes. No mass, no power. If
you’re not moving in the direction of the strike there is no mass there to plunge. Plunging
means throwing all of your body weight directly into the strike before your mass settles.
Each of these principles supports the other. Take one away and you’ll have a dramatic
loss in explosive power. This is especially important in non-telegraphing, pre-emptive
strikes. Students have a tendency to want to wind a technique up to get as much power as
possible. That’s good! But if you’re telegraphing your initial strike, all the power in the
world isn’t going to help when you’re on your ass in a daze. The key in pre-emptive is
delivering explosive power when they’re not expecting it. And the only way to do that is
to follow the SWAMP principles.

As instructors we want to repeat these principles prior to each power development

session. Let them sink in so the student can police his own training. We then want to
watch for missing principles. Is the student’s weight landing after the strike hits, or is it
landing before the strike? Is he turning his body into the strike, or is he still, or is he
moving away? Are both of his legs moving with his body, or is he leaving his leg lagging
behind? Is he loose and moving smoothly, or is he tense and choppy? Is his weapon
moving first, or is his hip, leg, arm, torso, etc. moving first? Make sure you show him
what he was doing wrong before you show him how to do it right. Unless he sees his
mistake, he will think he is doing it right. Watch, detect, analyze, and correct. Hit ‘em
first, hit ‘em fast, hit ‘em hard.

Note: We’d like to thank John Watson for coming up with this great acronym. It fits
perfectly. Webster defines swamp as “overwhelm.” This is exactly what we want to do.
SWAMP his ass.

There was negative feedback by some members of a forum called Free Republic. They
called Kelly a clown (for sitting down range from a sniper), not for real, wanna-be, who
does he know at Fox to get free publicity, spec ops uses their own people for training, etc.
Here's a response I prepared but never posted because some others spanked the guys who
initiated the thread.

"Actually, check out the book Marines, 1989, Doubleday, by John De St. Jorre. On pages
142 - 145 you will find that McCann has been directly involved in the US effort against
terrorism for over two decades. He is described in this book as, ".Captain Kelly McCann,
the hand to hand combat, rappelling (sic) (note: he was actually the high angle rescue
expert) and pistol expert."

Actually he was the Special Missions Officer for III MEF Special Operations Training
Group. When he got out of the Corps he continued to work for the US Government, DoD
and industry in both anti and counter-terrorism and has traveled extensively (like over 50
countries) to train and operate.

Further, the US Government and DoD routinely seek expertise outside their ranks for
specialized tasks that do not warrant maintaining expertise (at the master level) to service
a relatively small portion of the service user groups.

As far as being a "clown" who would let someone shoot near him, he has known "Jimmy"
since 1980 and over the course of twenty years has operated with him in many places.
The three foot safety stand off was not necessary, it has been inches in the past..for real.
Not such a funny "clown" or mercenary wanna-be huh?

You should know the facts before you try to malign someone."

Since we do the same POI and I'm the author of SWAMP I think I can answer this. BTW
- some of the techniques on the 3 combative tapes are not what he does today. That was
filmed 3 years ago just prior to us consolidating our curricula.

If you go to the GHCA website it states that our POI is BASED on the techniques,
tactics, and principles used by the elite allied forces of WW2. That is so we do not restrict
ourselves to just what a few men were doing. There was a ton of information put out prior
to and during the war years. We look at it all, and still do, and use what we think works
best for the clients we train. This gives us the freedom to change a technique if necessary.
So just because it was not in a manual that you possess does not necessarily mean it
wasn't used back then. Also, you may not know that Kelly's grandfather was a WW2
H2H instructor as well as his father during Korea. Mayhem runs in the family.

I disagree with the thought of body movements to generating more power are making
MANY of the strikes more complicated to execute and them not carrying through to a
high stress life and death situation. SWAMP is a guide for people to train their bodies to
acheive maximum power. When you put all the elements together you will get maximum
power. When you leave one or two out you will not. It does not mean that your strike will
no longer be effective. It just won't be as powerful. Once you learn the principles and
practice them, they will become a permanent part of your strikes. As your body
memorizes them the movement becomes smaller and faster. So small the 5 elements
becomes a shutter. Moving in the direction of the blow does not necessarily mean
stepping in the direction. A slight torso turn is all that may be needed to apply the
principal.

Did you ever watch Peter Consterdine's Power Strike tape? The technique he is using to
generate power is from Shukokai karate. I trained in Shukokai for 9 years with Cestari's
instructor Yoshisada Yonezuka. That technique is where SWAMP is derived. All the
principles are there except moving the weapon first which I added. I've used that punch in
the street with devastating results. When you watch the PC tape you see a big slow
movement. He does it that way so you can see the movement. As your body memorizes
the technique the movement becomes smaller and faster. Speed makes up for size of
motion. I can deliver that punch with my hands down at my side, my chest 12 inches
from yours, and knock you out before you even notice movement. The body shutters. It
can be a large movement as demonstrated, or a small vibration, but the effect will be the
same.

As far as using SWAMP in high stress. Kelly and I were in Bogota. A friend had a gold
necklace snatched (I know bad move, he wasn't one of us), he gave persuit and caught the
thief in a park. Thief pulled a knife, Kelly drew his, the thief turned and ran. Kelly caught
up, the thief started slashing, Kelly avioded and dropped him with a lightening fast hook
kick to the thigh. Then he gave him the boot. Kelly weighs 150 pounds and dropped the
guy with one kick. Running, adrenal dump, low light, had a drink or two, and his body
did what it was trained to do.

Tapes and manuals - do not use them for training. Use them for a reference after training.
Seeing is one thing, feeling is quite another. I hope this helps.

If my reply sounds a little harse do not take offense. It's not personal. I don't like sugar
coating replies. I'm not writing to anyone in particular, just writing as thoughts
materialize.

Be safe.

Very informative post from Bob.

I think power and body dynamics is exactly what was missing from most WW-2
manuals. Why? Well they were often written as aide-memoires to augment hands-on
training.Also, describing body mechanics is quite difficult on paper. The British manuals
were subject to the exigencies of wartime paper rationing, and the demands to get the
material into print quickly.

Obviously the instructors delivered forceful blows. The remaining film of Farbairn, for
example, show very dynamic strikes.

In my opinion the work of Bob Kaspar and Carl Cestari has taken the WW-2 material to a
new level of application. Quite simply, it's what to train in for the street. Gutterfighting
lives on!
Respectfully,
DENCQB

First of all everything we do in our POI has been done before. Everytime we think we've
invented something new eventually we'll find it in an old book. We cannot take credit for
anything except teaching methods. When I say that I'm the author of SWAMP I do not
mean the principles involved, I mean I identified them and put them into an easily
understood format. I believe in giving credit where credit is do. Ourfathers have done it
all before. It is all wartime jujitsu. I read reference material from that era everyday. Not
just look at pictures, but read the material over and over picking out little gems of
information hidden between the lines. One little sentence when explaining a technique
can reveal a principle for an entire system. None of this Bob Kasper. I'm just collecting
the different parts of the puzzle and assembling it as I see it.

Different body types move and react differently. Do not try to be someone you are not.
Train your body to be as effective as "IT" is possible to be. When I train someone I do
not try to make them look like me. I train them to be as effective as they can be naturally.
That is what SWAMP is for. An easy to remember acronym so that when they train they
are including all the elements of power development. An example of two people with
completely different types of bodies but both extremely powerful are Kelly and Ralph.
Ralph is a very large man. I know from talking to him and from his instructor that he is
following SWAMP principles. I know this because I know and seen his instructor and all
the elements are there. They don't explain them as SWAMP but they do explain them. I
watched a tape of his instructor last night. Drop step (Plunging), hitting with the weapon
before the foot hits the ground (Weapon first), moving straight into the target (Moving in
the direction of the blow), relax and speed, it's all there. All SWAMP does is help you to
identify the elements so you will know when they are missing.

What Kelly is doing in the tape is an inside stomp to the shin. The inside stomp can be
used on different targets to the lower leg, IE ankle, inside knee, hock of knee, inside shin,
outside shin, foot. So no matter where and how we are positioned to the adversary we can
attack the lower leg with the same weapon.

Registered User
Posts: 1
(11/24/01 8:34:03 am)
Re: Grover in Relation To WW2 Combatives

V42 said ,
"Nor is it a savate style style kick where you are whipping the inside edge of the boot into
the target "

Your right it does not look like the Coup de pied bas ( low blow ) but more like a similar
kick used by the older savate street systems ( those that are not concerned with
competition correctness) some refer to the kick as the Frappe , Glisse or Italian chasse it
uses a thrusting action to extend the knee , and can be combined with a continues pushing
action to hyper extend the knee -the result is hopefully damage to the articulation and or
grounding the opponent .
My 2 cents worth .

Regards
Craig G
www.savateaustralia.com
Registered User
Posts: 22
(11/24/01 8:49:06 am)
Thanks Den

Thanks Den

I appreciate the kudos. But I don't know everything. I'm an instructor but always a
student.

Two things I love to do and that have been a part of my life since I was a teenager is
combatives and motorcycles. Just recently I've been experiencing pain in my hands where
my thumb meets the hand. I only feel this pain when I ride. I'm currently under the
supervision of man who trained with a WW2 instructor for 53 years. He was watching me
do edge of hands blows with my thumb sticking out. He told me to fold the thumb down
and keep it against the hand. In my experience it is easier to make the hand harder by
extending the fingers out including the thumb. He said it has nothing to do with power or
hardness, that power comes from the body. You can achieve the same results with either
thumb position. Here's the part that floored me. He said when the thumb is sticking out it
acts like a tuning fork under impact and causes vibration that can lead to joint damage
and arthritis. Now who ever heard that one before? I was ready for the normal thumb up
vs. down arguments and I get a medical lesson. I like being an instructor but the best part
is being a student. Not always a good student as I'll probably continue to keep my thumb
flagged, but a student none the less. One thing I have learned - the older I get, the smarter
our forefathers get.

"So the power techniques of WW2 stuff is alot like Peter Consterdine's material?"

Not what I'm saying. What I said is I learned power from the same system that PC
learned from. I studied that system for 9 years. I incorporate the elements into my WW2
based POI.

I wasn't there in WW2 so I don't know exactly how power development was presented.
But I can guarantee from watching period films and studying training manuals that it was
there. There's nothing new about moving total body weight as fast as you can into a
target.

Good posts here. Keep it up.

Registered User
Posts: 28
(11/24/01 1:22:39 pm)
Re: Thumbs up

Bob,
Very interesting points you made about the thumb position in the Axehand. I was taught
to fold the thumb tightly, but when, as a result of reading stuff like these WW-2 threads I
tried the thumb extended position I did find it made my hand seem firmer and more
resistant to shock. Still, food for though.
Agree entirely with your comment about learning, personally I really enjoy learning
under a good teacher, and it's been my good fortune to have trained with some
outstanding guys.
Cheers,
Den

GHCA POI

When I started the GHCA in 1992 it was for Marines who practiced WW2 close combat.
Three schools were involved. Kelly McCann's Personal Defensive Measures; John Kary's
American Combatives; and my Personal Combative Tactics. The GHCA was a close
combat think tank where we shared ideas and technique. To show brotherhood to our
students we shared technique. We each did a little of the other's curriculum. When Kelly
made his first three videos there was technique and combinations from the three schools.
Just prior to the filming John Kary resigned from the GHCA. That was about 4 years ago.
About a month after the videos were filmed Kelly and I locked ourselves in a gym, beat
the crap out of each other, and hammered out a new GHCA POI. We eliminated any
American Combatives technique so there would be no conflict of interest, and combined
the best of his and my curricula. We agreed on what was best by actually doing our
technique to one another and then making a decision based on the results and not ego.
Whatever worked best and was most practical we kept. The others we trashed. Over the
past 4 years we have been fine tuning the curriculum. His latest video on Situational Self-
Defense would be a more accurate representation of what the GHCA does. With that said,
Kelly and I are different in physical build, speed, reaction time, etc. So we may do things
slightly different as far as execution. But for the most part it's the same.

To tell you the exact difference between the video and the current curriculum I'd have to
go through the video series which I don't have time to do.

Posts: 26
(11/24/01 8:40:23 pm)
John asks.........

"I`m also looking forward for your kni-com tape(s)/book. As for the power delivery of
the strikes;The way I see/understand it,this could be compared to the way boxing
does.Short/tight movements,power generated by the hip with weight commitment behind
each strike.Am I right?"

The 1st Kni-Com book is written. I still have to do the photography.

You're right if that is the way boxers do it. From what I see not too many do it. The ones
that do are usually the champions. Probably one of the best examples of power
development in modern boxing was Mike Tyson in the early years. His full body
commitment to each strick is a perfect example of how CC power should be delivered.
Speaking of - I do not advocate a half ass delivered technique to set up another one. Each
blow from the first to the last should be executed with equal power. Like gunshots going
off. Each one the same. Full speed, full power, full impact, one right after another. The
first blow is the most important, after that is delivered the 2nd blow is the most important,
after that is delivered the 3rd blow is the most important, etc. etc. Throw each one like it's
the last.

Thumbs and such

This has got to be one of the best dialogues I have seen on a message board in a long
time. Great background on how you developed your system into what it is today.

Iteresting thing about the Thumb, Bob. I used to do it with thumb down until I saw Jim
Grover's tape where he explained the reason for keeping it up is to stiffen the hand and
keep it from cupping under impact and absorbing some of the force. After that I got in the
habbit of doing it thumb up and it feels unnatural thumb down.

I have to say that when I first saw the tapes I liked the production quality &
demonstration format and loved the job Grover/McCann did in teaching and
demonstrating the techniques -- very complete and succinct. But I wasn't quite
comfortable with the way *some* of the strikes were executed. But after watching it for a
while, I really got to like most of it, and even now when I view it I can sometimes pick up
a nuance that I hadn't noticed before.

I think what James Sass said hit the nail on the head: "It should be a bedrock foundation
and a living thing, not an anachronism."

As far as I knew the tapes first came on the market about a year and a half ago. I didn't
realize that they were made so long ago.

Thumb/Grover/Sass/Tape

I like the thumb up and probably will never change. Neither will I stop riding
motorcycles so I guess it'll be another pain I'll be living with.

Those 1st 3 Grover tapes where filmed by GHCA Instructor Dave Shaples who is a
professional camerman. He is great to have do the videos because as a CC practitioner he
knows exactly what to look for. He'll also be doing my videos. As far as you not being
comfortable with some of the technique on the videos, that is normal. It's because it's not
what you're use to doing. And you still don't have to do it that way. Pick out the good
nuances, indentify the usable principles, and add them to your arsenal. Make them you.

Sass - "It should be a bedrock foundation and a living thing, not an anachronism." Great
point. WW2 CC offers us a great amount of fighting tools. You need to look at them all,
concentrate on the principles and the basics that everyone was using. They were all using
them for a reason - they worked. Then take those principles and techniques and make
them yours. Base your methods on effectiveness. If something isn't effective, change it.
What works for me, may not work for you. Look at everything, work it, and use what
works best for you. With that said - as an instructor you may not be teaching everything
you do. And it's not to hide your "secret" technique. It's because that technique may not
be the best to teach the masses. Case in point - the punch. I've been punching for 25
years. But I'd never try to teach it as close combat because it takes too long to develop a
truly effective punch.

The tapes were 1st marketed through another distribution company. Kelly wasn't happy
with their performance so he moved them to Paladin. That's why you didn't see them until
a couple of years after they were made.

When doing impact with a training partner do not have him hold the pads with his weight
fully supporting the pad. He should only be using his arm. The more weight behind the
pad the more stress put on your shoulder joint. I have scars on my shoulders from
operations from trying to move bodies with edge-hand blows. Also, don't reach for the
pad with your arm. Move your body into it so the arm is not outstetched. The shoulder is
the most complicated joint on the body. Once you damage it it'll never be the same.

On hardening hands. Everyone I know who has been doing this for 20+ years has
developed some degree of arthritis in their hands. Do it but don't go nuts on it. It's not
worth the discomfort when you're in your 50s.

Pain is my daily reminder of excessive training practices. Train hard but do it smart.

Bob

V42, (bob writing to me)

Absolutely! Spar Pro's are excellent training devices but you have to hit them correctly.
Do not extend your arms when doing edge-hand blows. Keep the elbows bent to keep the
arms closer to the body. This moves the body in closer to the target thus using more body
power and less arm power. The more power applied to the limb the more stress to its
weakest link - the shoulder. Besides you should be practicing these blows close inside.
That's were close combat rules. We can fight effectively in close.

BK

Yes. It works just as advertised. As does an edge hand blow to the carotid sinus and
vertical fist to the philtrum. These were all instant show stoppers. The chin-jab and edge-
hand to neck had the same effect. Instant knock out with the bg's legs collapsing and him
dropping straight down to the ground. I don't know how long they were out because I
immediately left the scene. If someone tells you they stumbled backwards and fell they
are probably bullshitting. They go straight down. The fist to the philtrum was devastating.
He was out for at least 10 minutes with his four top front chicklets broken off. I know for
a fact one of Kary's long time students dropped a fairly large man with a chin-jab. He left
the scene and returned 20 minutes later and the bg was just picking himself off of the
deck.

I have two senior instructor/students that bounce in large clubs in NJ & VA. Both clubs
have a bad reputation for fighting. John Watson has become somewhat of a legend in NJ.
He works the dance floor and is in the mix all the time. As much as 2-8 fights a night. I
asked him how our technqiues were working. He told me over the period of one year
working every weekend he only had one instance that he had a problem handling and that
was due to -LACK OF COMMITMENT on his part. His favorite technique is the neck
lock takedown. And his favorite author is - Geoff Thompson. Figures.

I've experience and witnessed dozens of training knockouts that included tiger claws,
fists, elbows, edge-hands, and front kicks. They all work just fine when applied properly.

BK

Burt,

Mr. Kasper is right on the money when he says they go straight down. The one time I had
to use the "Chin Jab" (though back in those kung fu days it was a "Palm Heel") I gave
him a good shot straight up under the chin, like I was aiming for the sky right above him.
His head shot right back like his neck was snapped, and he fell right down about were he
stood. I hardly had the time to pull off another move (though I tried to connect with a
solid front kick as he went down). The front Chin Jab/"Palm Heel" was a mainstay in
Model Mugging, and we had many related incidents of women knocking out larger men
with the technique.

Jim (happy to be a small part of such a great board!) Olsen

There is the potential for hurting your hand using any technique during rough and tumble
fighting. Saying not to use a fist because you'll hurt your hand is bullshit. People who say
that don't know how to apply it properly. A vertical fist in close confrontational situations
is a great weapon and one that was used during WW2. I.E. Vertical fist to kidney to set
up a strangle.

Some of our forefathers may not of favored the fist as a primary weapon but some did use
it. Besides the philtrum I've experienced show stoppers using the vertical fist to the chin,
solar plexus and..........armpit. Try this centerline combo - left edge hand to throat, right
vertical fist to solar plexus, right knee to fork. It's a beautiful thing.
Ralph, Charlie demoed the yellow pages vertical fist strike on me and Carl during our
first visit. I believe that was right before he spit in my face during a knife disarm. The
man was the essence of gutter fighting and knew how to use a fist.

BK

Ralph,

I just spotted this thread otherwise I would of commented on it earlier. The AKJA was
officially launched in 1982 when I moved from New Jersey to PA. Carl and I had been
together training and teaching in WW2 techniques 5 years prior to that when we started
with Nelson. We opened our first self defense school, Personal Survival Tactics in
Linden, NJ on Elizabeth Ave in 1979. It was blend of hard style karate and combat jiu-
jitsu. I started a karate-jutsu school in Scranton and then moved to Lewisburg and opened
a school there. The Assn. was shut down in 1984 for personal reasons and re-established
by me in 1985 when Carl and I split off on our own. It was the AKJA training cadre that
was the nucleus for the birth of the GHCA in 1992.

For the year I lived in Lewisburg, PA I studied Okinawa-Te with one of Dillman's guys.
And Shorinji-kempo with Kanakubo Sensei at Bucknell University. Shorinji is a Japanese
Bhuddist monk martial art. When I moved back to NJ Carl and I went to NYC and
trained in Shorinji with monks. They didn't speak English. This is no lie - they took us
out of class and made us train on our own because we hit too hard. We had our own
private instructor. A few students said "we don't hurt our fellow brothers." We told them
that we were not hurting each other, always train like that.

The AKJA still exist today. It is the governing body setting the curriculum standards for
the GHCA. Like the military we have an annual curriculum review board and if
necessary make changes based on research and practical experience. Those changes are
then made in the Instructor's Guide, reviewed and distributed at the annual Instructor's
Workshop in January.

The AKJA is still a WW2 close combat think tank and training organization. The GHCA
is an close combat Instructor's organization made up of AKJA Instructor's.

It is widely believed that the AKJA/GHCA POI is the same as Crucible Security. It is not.
Kelly uses GHCA members but has his own set of standards based on his clientele's
needs.

BK
Edited by: at: 12/28/01 2:41:51 pm

bob, i know this, i have your letter[ written by you] to charlie stating that carl and you
started the american karate jutsu association in august of 1982 ---so this indicates that carl
and you spent only 2 years together in the akja ----part of juko-kai ----carl said to me that
it is his thought that this was indeed a think tank for close combat and it helped to
expound around and upon the ideas of hard karate and the nelson system----but you guys
spend 5 years together before that !----i think that this this akja was the basis for all close
combat on the east coast [ everything is rooted in it , carl's stuff . your stuff , yes even
kary's stuff ----of course everyone's stuff changed since then----i wonder what would
have happened if it was not for carl's unfortunate incident ----ralph

Ralph,

Yes, I know you know all this. It was a general message to the group to fill in some
history. Yes, Carl and I were together in the AKJA for only two years because of
personal reasons which related to the "incident." But, the AKJA was a name only as we
were doing the same things together earlier. We just attached a name to it. We would pick
one situation and work it until it was bulletproof. If it didn't work we would can it. I still
use some of the techniques we worked out. I.E. long gun defense.

The incident was definitely a show stopper. We were writing for Gung-Ho magazine
starting to get the word out and had to cool off for obvious reasons. We both went
underground for a while after that.

BK

bob, this stuff would have taken off a lot sooner ----probably late 1980's --instead of late
90's and now ---i just found an article from 1955 on nelson [ he used to elbow and punch
tugboat bumpers!--------ralph

From Peter Robins:

I can assure you that Fairbairn's first system was Shinnoshindo-Ryu as devised by one
Yamamoto Tabizayemon. Circa 1658. He was a member of the Osaka Watch ( policeman
) The school is recognised as the second oldest school of jiu-jitsu ( after Yoshin Ryu,
which was Chinese based ) and the first truly Japanese style. There were two styles
within the system - Original (Combat) and Classical - "which was taught as an alternative
addition to the original and mainly concerned with a range of techniques for the casting-
to-the-ground ( not throwing ) of an attacker with such force as to incapacitate him."
(Martin)

These moves were close to the Yoshin Ryu throws imported from China, but different, in
that the Shinnoshin techniques were - "faster and simpler in their execution and involving
no lifting of an attacker enable them to be used equally well against one who may be
shorter, taller, heavier, larger or stronger without preliminary grappling for position."
(Martin)

Fairbairn trained under Prof. Okada in Shanghai (Shinnoshindo) and gained dan grade -
just because there is no grading certificate in existence, as there is fortunately in the case
of the Kodokan grades, does not mean that it never happened. People must remember that
the Kodokan grades were from 1926 and 1931 ( which link in with the publications of
Defendu and Scientific Self Defence ) The Shinnoshindo grades would have been around
1912. If you were promoting a book on self defence at the dates quoted, would you put
grades in of schools that very few would had heard of ? Or would you put in the grades
from the Kodokan that Kano had ensured had eclipsed just about all the jiu-jitsu schools
by reputation, by the 1920's ?

A question for those that state that Fairbairn had little regard for Shinnoshindo - why was
it that he was responsible for setting up a school in London in 1933 ? Which incidentally
run up to the time of war being declared. It was a Shinnoshindo school NOT a Kodokan
one. If the grades in the Kodokan were so "important" to Fairbairn as has been implied
.......why was this ?

I doubt very much that any of the people on the forums have ever actually seen any
Shinnoshindo Ryu technique so how can anyone be so sure that Fairbairn's close quarter
combat was not based (mainly) on the system ?

Registered User
Posts: 75
(12/31/01 8:01:59 am)
Re: Fairbarn & Jujutsu?

More from Peter Robins:

Ralph Grasso wrote:- " .. tenshin-ryu jiu jitsu was a combo of the two systems ----i
believe that fairbairn did study shinnshindo [ if that was the style okada taught ] -----but
the important point here is that the blows taught by fairbairn ALL COME FROM JIU
JITSU ATEMI-WAZA-----the problem i have about the shinsshindo --connection is that i
recieved [ kindly given a present by peter robins ] a copy of the shinsshinddo ryu style
book written by an old time expert [ martin i believe ]--he called it the fairbairn -martin
system of jiu jitsu ---yet when i compare it to SCIENTIFIC SELF DEFENCE , the jiu
jitsu is quite different "

Of course it is and let me explain why - this is very important to any such discussions -
the book mentioned, EASE OF RESTRAINT, written in 1990 was specifically for British
police at the time when they did NOT have ASP's/Long batons or CS spray or rigid
handcuffs. It was frowned upon to draw or use the old style truncheon, nor could they
strike anyone, so the only resort was control and restraint methods. This was known as
taiho-jutsu and was pretty well useless. Mr. Martin brought the book out to help the
police and other law enforcement officers, showing Shinnoshindo-Ryu, to carry out their
task with all the handicaps outlined above. Fairbairn did not have this handicap in
Shanghai and so his books showed strikes and "harsher" techniques. The book works on
two basic principles only and yet covers all eventualities from being threatened to being
held, to being attacked - all with and without weapons. That to me speaks volumes for
Shinnoshindo Ryu. I also have been on the end of most of these techniques and am a
believer. Those that know my background will understand that I am not saying this out of
courtesy. I also used some of these whilst serving as a special (reserve officer) before the
"new" equipment was issued.

I must say this and I mean no real offence to those in the States (mainly) - but it has to be
said; you must find it very hard to comprehend that a police officer would go against
"perps" without a gun, baton, spray and often alone - yet that was the common picture
when the book was written. Take away all the weapons/tools I have mentioned, and take
away strikes and please tell me what any of your police trainers could come up with that
would equal what I have seen in the book by Mr. Martin. I have to admit that I am a little
biased as he is one of the Patriarchs/Mentors for our training group (CODA) the other is
another man that you might have heard of - Bill Pilkington. Both men were assistant
instructors and instructor trainers under Fairbairn and Sykes, which must say something
of their knowledge on the subject. Neither of them have ever made much of the Kodokan
connection in regard to close combat. One thing to consider - in 1916 there was an intake
of Japanese officers to join the SMP. All were judo/jiu-jitsu trained, etc. Yet they all
learnt Defendu for their duties......
PS: Shinnoshindo Ryu was recognised for its atemi.
stickfighterwebtvnet
Unregistered User
(12/31/01 9:09:20 am)
fairbairn

dear bob, peter , ---i will keep this short since this seems to be a very controversial
subject 1] when i research i like to facts , show me a cerificate 2] fairbairn never
mentions shin no shin do ryu dispite having rank in it ? yet he mentions chinese boxing
[which in his mind is 80 percnt ritual! 3] i never said he did not study it but it is obvious
he did not rave about it !4] it is very easy to abuse or come up with new or interesting
facts after a man is dead some 40 years or so 4] this does ot mean i dislike or think little
of les martin or shin no shindo , i just like proof!--5] most of what fairbairn showe came
from the kodokan [ look a similiar system taught by smith ] or was smith , thornberry
shin noshind ryu as well ?----nothing against anyone , if i claimed i was a member of
gung ho chuan , i better have paperwork from bob to prove it------point made ---talk later
, ralph grasso
ezOP
Posts: 313
(12/31/01 3:42:47 pm)
debates 2

Something went wrong in the thread when I moved it so you cannot post replies.
Quote:

Author Comment
defendu2
Registered User
Posts: 83
(12/31/01 11:39:04 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All debates
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dear listmembers, i care not to debate over matters such as the one on fairbairn's
bio in this section---if some has fairbairn's shin no shinno ryu certificate please
send it to mr. sass , [ i do not have to see it ] ----mr. sass will soon have in his
possesion a copy of defendu ----he can indicate if the diplomas are judo/jiujitsu
kodokan based or shin no shindo based ----by the way fairbairn did not have to
have the certificate , he could have just mentioned that he was an instructor in this
method [ that would have been good enough for me ] ----since i cannot channel
fairbairn , we are without proof ----let me add that i respect kasper, robins but i
still request proof ----i do not want this to develop in to a debate between gung ho
chuan [ kasper and robins ] and i ----i just answered a man's question on this list
based upon existing proof ----if anyone has other proof show me and i will just
say you are right -------ralph

BobKasper
Registered User
Posts: 76
(12/31/01 12:19:23 pm)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph,

Leave me and GHCA out of this. Peter saw the thread while lurking and
responded as you did. He does not want to join any forum so he sent it to me to
post for the listers. My only involvment is passing on the message for him. He did
not pass on the message representing the GHCA or me, this is his information
based on his knowledge of the subject. Not mine.

You responded with information based on your research and he responded based
on his research. You both have good points of view, let the listers digest it from
the information presented.

This not about Bob, GHCA or Peter verses Ralph. This is nothing more but
healthy discussion. If we have to worry about someoine getting defensive or us
being attack everytime we post some information based on our knowledge than
it's not worth the time or effort to post.

BK

James Sass
ezOP
 Posts: 309
(12/31/01 12:30:53 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: debates
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob & Ralph, I moved this here to because it looked like it might get personal.
You both have a wealth of information and I really dont want the experience of
this forum to turn sour for either of you.

I also don't think either of you have any intent to offend each other, I've read both
of your posts carefully. Typed words on internet come off in a way they wouldnt
if we were sitting across from each other in reality.

Guys, I want to reiterate that I want you both to continue posting here. We've got a good
thing going, I hate to see it fall apart over footnotes. I dont mean to make any
presumptions but if you've got personal issues with each other please work it out. I would
like to see the productive communication continue.

Registered User
Posts: 88
(12/31/01 4:52:32 pm)
Re: debates 2

dear bob, if peter wants to comment , let him join the forum , otherwise the perception is i
am being tag teamed by your organization------ralph
Registered User
Posts: 89
(12/31/01 4:56:34 pm)
Re: debates 2

dear closed door , i will not write on this matter anymore---put up or shut ---he can
produce fairbairn's certificate or he cannot---when robins produces we can talk and i will
admit he is right -----thanks, ralph

Registered User
Posts: 78
(12/31/01 5:07:37 pm)
Re: debates 2

Tag teaming!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh God. I'm out of here. It's all yours Ralph.

Thanks for the invite James. I appreciate the support.

ezOP
Posts: 314
(12/31/01 5:53:02 pm)
Re: debates 2

Ralph, with all respect, I don't think you were being personally attacked by Bob or
Robins. I'm not taking sides or kissing ass, I just didnt read it that way.

Robins made an assertion. You and I asked what his sources for the information were. He
had yet to respond.

I have tremendous respect for both of you, and have benifited from both of you being
generous with your knowledge and resources. If you agree on any issue, fine, if not -
agree to disagree.

This is an internet information exchange not a turf war. We need to keep a certain amount
of detachment and focus on the issues for the exchange to remain productive.

Misunderstandings happen. No big deal. This is just internet. I would prefer if the hatchet
could be buried and we get back to business.
Registered User
Posts: 92
(12/31/01 5:57:07 pm)
Re: debates 2

dear bob, do not leave , just let the man write for himself -----how would you haved
viewed it if you were debating someone in a organization [ i do not have one ] that i was
in and i wrote messages for him ---you know what the perception is ----you would not
take exception to this? -----ralph

Registered User
Posts: 93
(12/31/01 6:20:47 pm)
Re: last post , i shall go

dear james, i will respect eveything you say,it is your site ---but if mr. robins wanted in
the debate , he should have come in it, i have a great deal of respect for kasper [ he may
not believe it] but it would be wrong for me to try and prove my point with peter through
bob ----it did not feel right to me---it felt like i was debating with more than one person ,
they are in the same organization----no, bob, it is not mine, the list belongs to james ,
being that you were on te list ---you remain and i shall leave---bob, james, peter and
listmembers ---happy new year ---ralph
ezOP
Posts: 315
(12/31/01 6:48:17 pm)
OK, I'm leaving this up overnight in case anyone has anything else to say. I'm deleting
this thread tomorrow evening.

I really don't want either of you to go over a minor disagreement... so I implore you to
bury the hatchet, or just forget about it and pretend it never happened.

Lets just call it a bad day.

I purchased a set of SJJ tapes from P. Sirigano last year. I sent them up to the CSA to see
if there was a connection. The answer I was given - "No, that is not what the Doc
(Perrigard) was taught." And I was told that there was never a black belt ranking system.
It was master and student. Nor do they have any record of Killegrew training with the
Doc. I have a list of all of the original Arwr-men from the 30-40s, backgrounds, and how
they died.

Does this mean Killegrew was not doing SJJ? No, it means there is no known connection
between the two.

I spent the last six years researching and training in Arwrology. To wrap it in a nutshell it
is fighting at extremely close distance with more emphasis on body movement than limb
movement for generating power. Very good for us old timers with osteo-arthritis from
excessive training. The emphasis is killing with blows (atemi) and strangulation.
Everything they do leads to that goal - killing. Arwrology is not a Welsh fighting system
as some may believe. Arwr is a Welsh word meaning "all out fighter" borrowed to
describe Perrigard's attitude towards combat. Anything goes as long as it gets the desired
results. If you read into the book you'll see the Doc keeps emphasizing that if something
doesn't work for you change it to something that does. The impact drills in the book and
ones that were passed on to me are all engineered for generating power at extreme close
quarters from any position. Example: we train striking walls at various angles while our
bodies are touching the wall. It trains you to use more body rotation in your strikes. He
did condition his hands for blows. And yes, one of the reasons for the name change was
anti-jap sentiment of the times.

In my personal notes received from Perrigard and his senior students, Hei Lung (Black
Dragon) Society and SJJ Society are one in the same. Thus the reason for the Black
Dragon on the Arwrology emblem. From what I was personally told and senior
student/inheritor's notes, Perrigard's "master" was a JJ instructor for one of the last
Samurai clans in Japan. Sometime after the turn of the century he migrated to Canada and
took Perrigard on as a student in the early 20s. Perrigard was a young teenager at the
time. The "master" died in the late 30s from natural causes. He took Doc to Japan in the
mid-30s to demonstrate to his peers.

The history of the CSA is fascinating with original WW2 members involved with some
very impressive "intelligence" organizations.
Perrigard was a Doctor, spoke 5 languages (English, German, French, Russian & Italian)
fluently, was friends with Hoover and Fredericks. His history goes blank from 1943-45
but we do know he was heavily involved in the Italian underground. And for those of you
who have the book and think he was small and frail he was 6'1" and rock hard. Those
CSA men he is demostrating with are 6'6" and 6'7". One of them was OSS and killed
during the war. His men loved him dearly. Their loyalty to the man in unbelieveable.

I'd write more but I'm overwhelmed with overseas work.

Please excuse grammer and spelling. I'm truly rushed.

Bob Kasper

Pedro,

What I meant was under the physiological effects of extreme violence can you even draw
the knife? (Not you personally, I'm speaking to the members.) Can you make the
transition from fear and startle, to starting a defense, to employing the knife. Will you
even think about drawing the knife? That mental transition is not as easy as everyone
thinks. That's why it is essential to keep everything simple, gross motor skilled oriented,
and practice, practice, practice. Do stress drawing and employment drills with a partner.
One of many drills is to have your partner actually attack you with hard slaps to the face
and body. Try getting that folder out and open while defending yourself. You'll notice
there is an abrupt mental transition that takes place when you suddenly think - my knife!
There is also a physical transition that takes place especially with a folder. You're using
gross motor skills to defend yourself and all of sudden, under duress, you have to
transition to a fine motor draw, open and index. I've seen more knives hit the ground
during stress draw training then any other time.

To me striking techniques are secondary. If you can't get to the knife all the training in
the world is useless. This is why it is essential to have good unarmed close combat skills
to augment weapon skills. The two go hand in hand. I get a kick out of the rambos who
say, "I'll just shoot him." How many cops get jumped and never get their gun out?

BK

Re: WW II Knife Combatives???

One of the best, no bullshit, presentations on the Effects of Imminent Danger is that
which is done by Jim Grover. He explains the complete cycle from attack, through the
chemical dump, fear, indecision, to the counter attack. He did a lot of research on the
subject. Excellent presentation. We teach it before every armed and unarmed seminar.
Once you have a thorough understanding of it you'll change the way you train.
BK

Re: Flooring Systems?

Numb-nuts is/are WW2 bayonet dummies.

Registered User
Posts: 29
(5/22/02 6:01:57 pm)
BOB?

Where could one purchase "Numb-Nuts?"

Thanks, Dave

Registered User
Posts: 146
(5/22/02 6:12:13 pm)
Re: BOB?

Huh, purchase? I plead the 5th.

Just a little Kasper/McCann training history - When we first started the GHCA my group
was training in a condemned motel restaurant dining room in Lakewood, NJ. It housed
crack dealers, hookers and who knows what else. And it was obvious from our ethnic
background that we did not belong there. We called it Hotel Hell. We trained on cement
floors covered with commercial carpeting. There was no heat, air conditioning, or
ventilation. It was sealed off, damp and dirty. There were giant mushrooms growing out
of the corners of the floor. In the winter we trained in sub-zero temps with our jackets,
gloves and watch caps on. When we got warmed up and removed the watch caps
condensation came off of our heads. We trained there for 3 years until the city threw
everyone out to tear it down. Down south in VA Kelly McCann's group trained in a
firehouse on cement floors but most of the time outside in the parking lot some of which
was gravel. When they moved to their first school they trained on a cement floor until
they started ground fighting. That's when the mat came in. Today at Crucible they have
matted areas for clients but they also use cement floors and the parking lot. My current
training center is wood floors on cement but we usually train outdoors when the weather
permits. A few summers ago my gym was shut down for renovation and we trained for
two months outside on black top even in the pouring rain. Why? Cause that's all we had
and we really don't care as long as we're training. Not trying to be a toughy here. My
point is - don't worry about the surface that you are working on. Training under adverse
conditions with feet sticking and slipping will make you a better fighter in the street. As
far as working out on hard surfaces - great way to perfect your break fall.

BK
Here is a gem that was written for GHCA members in Snapping in #50

SNAPPING IN #50

THE "OFFSET" STANCE

by Arnie Lipson

During our Thursday night classes of perpetual improvement, we focus

on
the details of each technique to improve our performance. One very
basic,
yet important issue during past few months has been the value of the
"offset" stance. Marty Cruz has been reminding us all that we will
improve
our balance, power, and reduce telegraphing greatly by paying closer
attention to how we stand.

Stand behind a straight line on the floor, feet together with your toes
on the line. Now slide your dominant foot back about six inches, and
move it
out to the side, so that your feet are about shoulder width apart. Be
sure
that your knees are slightly bent, not locked. Your hips are relatively
squared. Your hand position will depend on your situation. Now you
are in
the offset stance.

Why is the offset stance so important? Let's look at the benefits.

In order to move forward quickly (zero to 100) we must vault off of

the
back foot, as we lift the front foot off of the ground. If we attempt to
do
this with both of our feet "toeing the line" we will have to lean the
upper
body slightly forward first in order to move that front foot forward.
When
we do this, we telegraph our forward motion. When the front foot is
already
ahead of the back foot from the start, all we have to do is lift it, and
the
forward momentum begins without telegraphing. Add the vault at the
same
time, and you're moving zero to 100. Try it with your feet in both
positions
and see the difference.

The second element is the slight bend in the knees from the get go. If
the knees are locked, you must unlock them first by bending them
prior to
initiating any motion. When this happens, we again telegraph our
movement by
dipping down prior to moving forward.

Another problem that may be experienced is the "teeter-totter" effect

when completing a strike. This is described as a slight unsteadiness on
the
feet at the abrupt finish of a strike. This occurs because the feet are
toeing that line, causing instability on the forward to rear axis. If the
feet are in the offset position at the finish, your base will be stable.

Finally, the hips must be relatively squared toward the front. If they
are bladed to the side, you will turn your hips forward before you vault
off
of the rear leg. This will be the case when striking with your dominant
side
weapons. This will telegraph your intention to move forward. There are
other important reasons to keep your hips relatively squared to the
front.
Not only does it prevent telegraphing the upper body; it allows you to
more
effectively hollow out your midsection during low edged weapon
attacks. For
example, a slashing attack is coming at your midsection, say, a
number four
slash. You hollow out from a bladed stance, and the number four slash
may
miss the mark. However, on the return slash of a number five, your
midsection will be struck, because you can not hollow out far enough
when
the midsection is in the direct line of attack.

On occasion, I thought I was in the offset stance prior to launching a

strike. Marty would catch me starting out right, but then I would
unknowingly adjust my feet slightly, and reposition them so that they
are
close to toeing the line again. Each time I did this, I would experience
some of the problems mentioned above. He suggested that I
exaggerate the
offset stance during training for a while by placing my feet a little
wider
apart. Soon the habit would be formed without thinking about it. Then
I
could resume the original foot spacing later on. How do you know
when it's a
habit? Each time you come to a standstill, you will find your feet offset
position without trying.

The offset stance is key for the proper execution of almost everything
that we do. If you are experiencing problems with leaning before
launching,
keeping your balance after striking, or telegraphing your strikes in
other
ways. Check how you are standing prior to moving. Use of the offset
stance
may cure many of the ills.

My take on the difference between a short and long axe-hand has to do with wind-up and
extension. The short axe-hand is not cranked or cocked before it is thrown whereas the
long axe-hand is. The short axe-hand makes contact with the arm bent at close to a 90
degree angle, whereas with the long axe-hand the arm is almost straight. Often the shorst
axe-hand uses a drop step to produce power and a long axe-hand uses a hip twist/waist
torque. This is not always the case, however, I think John Kary used his hips/waist, rather
than a drop step for both.

Bob Kasper's "power chop" was a long axe-hand that he really cranked up on before he
threw it. It was telegraphed, but since it was preceded by a stomp sidekick to the knee
and was thrown from the back/side of any opponent, I don't think the telegraphing was
much of a problem.

However, my personal preference has always been a short axe-hand.

By the way, in a previous post I said that Bob's knife fighting style was from someone
named Sanchez. In think it was John Sanchez, one of whose books was reviewed in
"Snapping In". However, I don't think that Bob was static in his aproach. Sanchez was his
main inspiration prior to 1993, I'm sure he incorporated other stuff into his bladework
after that, As I think I mentioned, he did Keating's "Riddle of Steel" sometime after he
cited Sanchez as his major inspiration. THe only bladework I saw was 1993 or prior.
Also, I think that Bob tended to stress what he called "the guard" more than most
combatives instructors. The guard was a defensive cover where the hand come up to
cover the head (the fingertips touch the temples and the hands/arms "cage" the head. I
remember him talking about using EOH blows out of the guard to hit anything coming in.
He did a column for a knife magazine for a while and his knife fighting style/stance
always had his empty hand in the guard.

Seth

As I recall, Bob really favored the horizontal backhanded (short and long) axe hand
(generally in combination doing what he called a "bouble tap") and a side stomp kick. I
also remember him using the chin-jab/knee combo and the finger jab (which was kind of
claw shaped). I don't remember seeing a vertical downward or horizontal inward axehand
or the soccer style shin kick. Also he once told me how he used a verticle fist punch to
knock out some guy (and also knock out his front teeth) when he was attacked.

Bob told me that he developed the punch during his Karate days using foam training
blocks that a partner held. I don't think he taught the punch much after he started doing
combatives. However I know that he still did target training. I specifically remember him
mentioing Thai pads and (I think the heavy bag). I believe he didn't do endless reps on
targets and concentrated more on a lesser number of hard high quality strikes.

Seth

BOB KASPER

Here's a rare interview that Bob gave to some guy. I can't vouch for it's authenticity, but it
sounds like Bob Kasper to me. Please note, when Bob talks about Jim Grover, he is
refering to Kelly McCann, who once wrote under that alias. Also, there are folks out there
who would take exception to some of what Bob says about his background, influences,
etc. Ralph Grasso, in particular, makes a pretty good case that, among other things, Carl
Cestari is given no credit for the role he played in Bob's development.

Bob Kasper Interview

This interview was conducted by e-mail. MDP stand for myself, Marion David Poff, BK
stands for Bob Kasper, not British Knights, remember, this is a KNIFE-related article not
about sneakers.

MDP- How did you get into teaching combatives?

BK- I got my first taste of combatives in the Marine Corps. That was back in 1969. Since
then I’ve always had an interest. I was stationed in Japan for 13 months and studied tai-
ho jutsu from a Captain in the japanese defense force. When I got out of the Marines in
1973 I started studying shito-ryu with Yoshisada Yonezuka. I stayed with him for nine
years and was promoted to sandan in that style. During that period around 1977 I meet
Charles Nelson a WW2 USMC close combat instructor. His techniques sparked my
interest in combatives and I’ve been with it ever since.

MDP- Personal Defensive Measures is the school you teach at, Kni-Com is a program of
instruction designed by you, and Sudden Violence Seminars are co-taught by you, what
more can be said about them, and what is their relevance to the online community?

BK- Actually, PDM is the company I work for. It was founded by a man most people
know as ‘Jim Grover’ from Guns & Ammo. Jim and I meet about five years ago. We
slammed each other around for a weekend, became good friends, and he invited me to
work with him teaching DoD, Government and corporate personnel how to survive in
high risk environments. After we hooked up and consolidated our curriculums I changed
my school name from Personal Combative Tactics to PDM since it’s all the same
techniques.

Kni-Com, which is short for Knife Combat, is my idea of what knife fighting on the street
should look like. Because of the personnel I train and the time I’m allotted to train them I
can’t afford to have a complicated, time-consuming, hard-to-retain curriculum. It’s got to
be simple and effective. When Mr. Grover introduced me to a special mission unit five
years ago he told me, “These men are professionals. If they don’t like what they see
they’ll get up and walk out.” That was five years ago and I’m still training them.

Sudden Violence is a course that teaches how violent attacks take place and how to
effectively counter them. It’s a week long intensive course that is tailored for the client.
The relevance to the on-line community is that everything we teach from unarmed
combatives to high-risk off-road motorcycling is available for those who seek this type of
training.

MDP- The teaching of civilians by military combatives instructors is an issue with some
controversy attached to it, some people think that merely because an instructor worked
with the military, they are to be highly recommended, others hold the opposite opinion.
What are your thoughts on the issue and what is your history with teaching civilians?
BK- I agree that just because someone taught the military it doesn’t mean they have the
necessary skills to teach civilians. It depends on what type of combatives they are
teaching. Not all military combatives are good. The former USMC LINE curriculum was
a good example of that. A lot of elite unit’s main missions is CQB. Close quarter battle
has no relevance to an individual operating alone in the street. For example, when I was
teaching a SMU in Bosnia they wanted to know how to knife fight with their weak hand
while holding a subgun with their strong hand. What does that have to do with civilians?
You want to seek out the instructor who trains men and woman to work alone in high risk
environments with no support. Just them alone in the street, like us the civilian.

I’ve been teaching civilians since the late 70’s. My first training center was opened in
1979. It was a self-defense school called Personal Survival Tactics. I currently run a
training center in New Jersey where I teach unarmed, stick, knife and handgun to
civilians. A lot of people are under the impression that we don’t teach civilians. This is
false. Our main clientele is civilian.

MDP- What can military combatives bring to civilian training?

BK- Simplistic effectiveness.

MDP- What is the defining character of WW2 Close Quarters Combat and how does that
effect the Gung Ho Chuan Association?

BK- Simplicity, effectiveness, easy to learn, easy to execute, easy to retain. It effects the
GHCA in that it is a part of our American fighting heritage. After WW2 people were fed
up with the violence of the war. Training in WW2 CQC literally stopped. A handful of
men continued in the techniques but as time went by it was pushed aside because of the
influence of the Eastern martial arts. It’s our belief that WW2 CQC is a real world, time-
tested martial form. Our goal is to keep this great American martial tradition alive.

MDP- How would you describe the difference between WW2 CQC and the vast field of
martial arts?

BK- The biggest difference is the time it takes to become combat effective. Because we
only concentrate on few techniques the training cycle through competency is a lot shorter.
Where most martial arts believe “more is better”, WW2 CQC believes “less is more.”
We’re not saying one is better than the other. What we’re saying is that the combat
effective training cycle is shorter because there is less to know.

MDP- What are the sources of WW2 CQC?

BK- Original instructors, practitioners, documents, training schedules, and videos of the
period. We have two historians that seek the information needed to formulate working
curricula. Our film, book, and document library is vast. One of our historians, Maj.
Charles Melson was recently named the Marine Corps Chief Historian. He co-authored
Col. Applegate’s last book published by Paladin Press. Charles Nelson, an actual WW2
USMC CQC instructor is our Patriarch and still teaches us at the age of 83. We consider
ourselves one of the most knowledgeable organizations on the subject.

MDP- One would fairly quickly seem to notice the definite Randall flavor to the Kasper
Fighting Knives Pug and Bulldog fixed blades made by Al Polkowski, does that coincide
with WW2 CQC?

BK- My first custom fixed blade fighter was a 7-inch Randall Model 1 which I bought in
1980. It definitely had a role in the design of the KFK as did the Kabar Fighting Utility
Knife. Since both knives were used during WW2 I guess you could say it coincides. I’m
not one for reinventing the wheel. If it works, use it.

MDP- It seems to be fairly common knowledge that you have collaborated with
knifemakers to see that your concept of the ideal tool is available. Your collaborations
with Al Polkowski are fairly well known, the Bulldog and Pug are familiar sights, you
have also worked together on the Scorpion, Companion and Gaunt, can you tell us a little
more about them? And how did the collaboration begin?

BK- I had a hard time finding a knife that could perform the way my mind’s eye wanted
it to perform. I started going to knife shows to see if there was anything close to my
ideas. I kept stopping at Al Polkowski’s table and picking up his knives. I bought a
couple at the next two shows and decided that he was the man who could do exactly what
I had in mind. It turned out to better than expected because Al was able teach me about
knife making and I was able to teach him about knife fighting. Al actually trained with
me when we first meet. He learned why I needed certain design features and I learned
how his knives are constructed and what parameters I had to work within. By both of us
having a better understanding of what the other does we were able to design and then
improve the KFF. To me Al Polkowski is in a league of his own in making concealed
knives. No one can match him. I thought so five years ago, and I still think that way
today. The Companion was a designed that came from the request of a chief trainer of a
SMU who wanted a low profile knife to carry concealed. The Scorpion is the latest
evolution in my fixed blade series. For me it’s the most efficient fighting knife that I have
designed. I see it as the ultimate balance between size and effectiveness. You have to
carry it and use it to see what I’m talking about. The Gaunt is the results of some
extensive neck knife evaluations I did over the past year. I came to the conclusion that a
neck knife should be straight and flat to be low profile and comfortable, and it has to be
designed that allows sure draws under stress.
MDP- You have also collaborated with Pat Crawford, on the Kasper Folding Fighter.
How is that project going and, what is the story behind the Mini-Kasper and the neck
knife?

BK- The project is going very well. Pat designed exactly what I wanted. To date the KFF
has been his best seller so I guess we did it right. The mini-Kasper and the neck knife is
strictly Pat’s idea. I was not involved in their design.

MDP- What other knife makers have you collaborated with?

BK- Randy Lee, Jim Siska, Mike Sakmar, and Rob Patton.

MDP- Are there any plans for a production Kasper Folding Fighter or other Kasper
Knives?

BK- Yes, a folder. Hopefully you’ll see something in 1999.

MDP- What did designing the knives and working with knifemakers bring to your
combatives?

BK- Because I’m able to work the knife more dynamically and closer to reality it builds
confidence in fighting. I was always worried about losing a knife during combat
especially with some of the techniques I do. That is no longer a concern thanks to the
custom knifemakers I’ve worked with.

MDP- Speaking of the field of knives known as 'tactical', in your opinion are there any
common errors in design or execution?

BK- I think the biggest common error is custom knifemakers that put black handles on
any knife, subdue the blade, and call it tactical. I see this all the time at knife shows.
“Here’s my custom model, and here’s my tactical model.” I don’t think so. Other than
that I’m not aware of common errors. What might seem an error to me, may be ideal for
someone else.

MDP- What has your executive protection experience taught you about combatives?
What are the applicable lessons for civilians?

BK- Not to think from your muzzle out, but to think from his muzzle in. In other words,
know what to expect from your enemy. And without a doubt, awareness. Living in
condition yellow for up to 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 3 months at a time really
enhances your awareness and avoidance skills. Awareness and avoidance will get you
safely out of more jams than any amount of combative training ever will. And don’t think
that way of thinking is being cowardly. It’s not. It’s about being street smart.

MDP- What would you consider to be the most often overlooked considerations in
civilian tactical thinking, planning, and or preparation?

BK-The eminent physical and mental effects of danger, realistic scenario based training,
the importance of simplistic perfection of technique.

MDP- The Hi-Speed Benchmade AFCK variant of your design, what is the story behind
it, what led to the modifications?

BK- Just like the fixed blade, I was looking for that ultimate folder. The AFCK was the
closest knife I could find to what I was looking for. Not being exactly what I wanted I
came up with a few modifications that would make it more combat efficient. However, I
also like the quality, feel, and function of EDI’s Genesis. I’m looking into ways of
jazzing that one up for our kind of fighting.

Bob Kasper can be reached at GHCA.org , as well as further information, including how
you can study with him.

Ewong:

I think he specifically mentioned thai pads and the heavy bag as training aids. You need
to understand that things like BOB and SparPro were not arounf then. I have hit a BOB
and think that it could be quite useful in training. I just am not interested enough to spend
that kind of money. I have a Wavemaster and a small heavybag that I don't use that much
anymore. I also think that he talked about hitting all sorts of things. At that time I liked to
hit things with corners, like door frames and walls, I don't remember if he specifically
suggested that or if I got it from a book he sent me called Combat Judo by Cosneck. I do
remeber having a big tough lump on my EOH as a result of that training. I don't do that
anymore, but still do some daily conditioning on my EOH, and would recommend that
anyone seriously interested in H2h, combatives and/or self defense would do the same.
As far as drills, I remember Bob stressing quality over quantity. He believed in
developing a limited number of tools, but he also believed that those strikes should be
practiced with intent and precision rather than just endless sloppy reps.

Seth

MCMA The reason it seems the Marines may not be able to beat a FMA man in knife vs.
knife or stick vs. stick is because they are not taught that type of fighting. It is not
necessary for battlefield skills. As a USMC Close Combat SME and author of their knife
curriculum I had to ask myself and the Marine Corps what are the chances of a Marine in
combat getting in a knife vs. knife fight. Meaning the Marine and the enemy both down
to just a knife at the exact same time. The answer from all involved was nil, so why use
precious training time in practicing something that they don't need. The knife is a utility
tool that is used as a last resort weapon to be used to kill the enemy when no other means
are available. The way I have been teaching to the CCITs and the way I'll be teaching
again next week is to attack the enemy and produce as much trauma as possible and move
on to your objective.

Please do not use the current CC publication as a training manual. It's not complete and
loaded with mistakes. It does not give the true essence of the POI. It was written quickly
by a contractor who knows nothing of CC, not by the SMEs.

As far as effectiveness of technique I'll use a saying from my organization. 90% attitude,
10% technique. Close Combat is all about having a willingness to kill. A lot of people
talk it, but few have it. The true test is not a manual, forum, or training center. It's the
battlefield.

Hand to gland fighting is getting more rare as war technology advances. CC is more
likely to be used in peacekeeping missions than in actual war. And so far the current POI
has been proven successful in that realm. When the time comes to use it in a do or die
situation they will get down to the basics and get it done.

Is the USMC CC POI the best? No. But it can be with time. Once the politicians are gone
and the garbage is removed the Marines will have themselves a good program. Cardo
Urso is a good man with a very difficult job of keeping this all together and on track. Too
many people with an "agenda" are seasoning the stew. Give it time.

Carl and I started training with Charles Nelson in the 70s. We traveled from NJ to NYC
by car, train & subway every Tues & Thurs night for TWO YEARS and made periodic
visits for years afterwards. In 1979 we opened our first WW2 based self defense school in
Linden, NJ called Personal Survival Tactics. I have pictures and our business card from
that school. In 1981 we met and interviewed Col. Applegate for the first time. We have
the pictures. During the early 80s we were the hand-to-hand combat editors for a
paramilitary magazine. We have all the copies. All of this is easily verifiable.

I don't know who Dave Walmsley is or anything about him but for him to make a claim
that Carl was introduced to WW2 CC through Steiner in 1989 is ludicrous.

BK
===============================================================
===============================================================
==

Hi Jerry, yes we did some empty hand stuff as well as the pure knife work. It tended to be
techniques like, short axe hand, long axe hand, edge of boot into the side of the knee and
stomp down...

The combinations were more like small kata's rather than real life SSD methods, but I
understood their relevence was to highlight the actual techniques and where they might
be used, rather than practice them in a scenario and to be honest, I wouldn't like to be
using the boot kick in a scenario, on a training partner.

Whilst I enjoy training like that, from my experience there isn't much requirement for it
really. A fight happens and is over and it's about forward pressure, powerful shots and
blitzkreig - with no time to drop off to one side and apply a side boot stomp. It did
however, help me with my education into leg techniques (kicks) and how they should be
applied - which is information I then applied to my LEO teaching of angle kicks and knee
strikes. I daresay that was the highlight of the training as it was something I could take
back to the 'troops' to help them.

I would like to cut short the picky debate about SWAMP and whether Cestari's head
moved first in a blow. Kasper used SWAMP as a training tool (read the article again), not
something you should be filling your mind with whilst involved in mortal combat :)
Think of sending the weapon in first doesn't mean that is what you will do, but it will
help in ensuring there is minimal lag time between the power generation (double hip, or
just the head moving first) and the weapon striking. I believe Kasper to be correct in his
use of it as a teaching tool.

I will add though, that SWAMP can be used with a Fairbairn dagger, as there is little
need for great power generation at the start of a knife stab.

Ken, I would love to see Awrology, if you have it. It is something I know little of, not
that I'm likely to change what I do.

Coops

James,

I assume that you are talking about knife vs. knife fighting. If so, I personally would only
use the in-quartata as a counter to an aggressive, telegraphed attack. And if used, it would
be in a compact manner maintaining a good combat posture for balance, protection and
offensive follow-up.
Bob

Edited by: BobKasper at: 3/22/02 7:23:16 am

===============================================================
=

Short Bob Kasper Interview

The following is a short interview of Bob Kasper by David Marion Poff, a bladeforums
member. Kasper teaches knife combatives through his KniCom group.
_______________________________

This interview was conducted by e-mail. MDP stand for myself, Marion David Poff, BK
stands for Bob Kasper, not British Knights, remember, this is a KNIFE-related article not
about sneakers.

MDP- How did you get into teaching combatives?

BK- I got my first taste of combatives in the Marine Corps. That was back in 1969. Since
then I’ve always had an interest. I was stationed in Japan for 13 months and studied tai-
ho jutsu from a Captain in the japanese defense force. When I got out of the Marines in
1973 I started studying ****o-ryu with Yoshisada Yonezuka. I stayed with him for nine
years and was promoted to sandan in that style. During that period around 1977 I meet
Charles Nelson a WW2 USMC close combat instructor. His techniques sparked my
interest in combatives and I’ve been with it ever since.

MDP- Personal Defensive Measures is the school you teach at, Kni-Com is a program of
instruction designed by you, and Sudden Violence Seminars are co-taught by you, what
more can be said about them, and what is their relevance to the online community?

BK- Actually, PDM is the company I work for. It was founded by a man most people
know as ‘Jim Grover’ from Guns & Ammo. Jim and I meet about five years ago. We
slammed each other around for a weekend, became good friends, and he invited me to
work with him teaching DoD, Government and corporate personnel how to survive in
high risk environments. After we hooked up and consolidated our curriculums I changed
my school name from Personal Combative Tactics to PDM since it’s all the same
techniques.

Kni-Com, which is short for Knife Combat, is my idea of what knife fighting on the street
should look like. Because of the personnel I train and the time I’m allotted to train them I
can’t afford to have a complicated, time-consuming, hard-to-retain curriculum. It’s got to
be simple and effective. When Mr. Grover introduced me to a special mission unit five
years ago he told me, “These men are professionals. If they don’t like what they see
they’ll get up and walk out.” That was five years ago and I’m still training them.

Sudden Violence is a course that teaches how violent attacks take place and how to
effectively counter them. It’s a week long intensive course that is tailored for the client.
The relevance to the on-line community is that everything we teach from unarmed
combatives to high-risk off-road motorcycling is available for those who seek this type of
training.

MDP- The teaching of civilians by military combatives instructors is an issue with some
controversy attached to it, some people think that merely because an instructor worked
with the military, they are to be highly recommended, others hold the opposite opinion.
What are your
thoughts on the issue and what is your history with teaching civilians?

BK- I agree that just because someone taught the military it doesn’t mean they have the
necessary skills to teach civilians. It depends on what type of combatives they are
teaching. Not all military combatives are good. The former USMC LINE curriculum was
a good example of that. A lot of elite unit’s main missions is CQB. Close quarter battle
has no relevance to an individual operating alone in the street. For example, when I was
teaching a SMU in Bosnia they wanted to know how to knife fight with their weak hand
while holding a subgun with their strong hand. What does that have to do with civilians?
You want to seek out the instructor who trains men and woman to work alone in high risk
environments with no support. Just them alone in the street, like us the civilian.

I’ve been teaching civilians since the late 70’s. My first training center was opened in
1979. It was a self-defense school called Personal Survival Tactics. I currently run a
training center in New Jersey where I teach unarmed, stick, knife and handgun to
civilians. A lot of people are under the impression that we don’t teach civilians. This is
false. Our main clientele is civilian.

MDP- What can military combatives bring to civilian training?

BK- Simplistic effectiveness.

MDP- What is the defining character of WW2 Close Quarters Combat and how does that
effect the Gung Ho Chuan Association?

BK- Simplicity, effectiveness, easy to learn, easy to execute, easy to retain. It effects the
GHCA in that it is a part of our American fighting heritage. After WW2 people were fed
up with the violence of the war. Training in WW2 CQC literally stopped. A handful of
men continued in the techniques but as time went by it was pushed aside because of the
influence of the Eastern martial arts. It’s our belief that WW2 CQC is a real world, time-
tested martial form. Our goal is to keep this great American martial tradition alive.
MDP- How would you describe the difference between WW2 CQC and the vast field of
martial arts?

BK- The biggest difference is the time it takes to become combat effective. Because we
only concentrate on few techniques the training cycle through competency is a lot shorter.
Where most martial arts believe “more is better”, WW2 CQC believes “less is more.”
We’re not saying one is better than the other. What we’re saying is that the combat
effective training cycle is shorter because there is less to know.

MDP- What are the sources of WW2 CQC?

BK- Original instructors, practitioners, documents, training schedules, and videos of the
period. We have two historians that seek the information needed to formulate working
curricula. Our film, book, and document library is vast. One of our historians, Maj.
Charles Melson was recently named the Marine Corps Chief Historian. He co-authored
Col. Applegate’s last book published by Paladin Press. Charles Nelson, an actual WW2
USMC CQC instructor is our Patriarch and still teaches us at the age of 83. We consider
ourselves one of the most knowledgeable organizations on the subject.

MDP- One would fairly quickly seem to notice the definite Randall flavor to the Kasper
Fighting Knives Pug and Bulldog fixed blades made by Al Polkowski, does that coincide
with WW2 CQC?

BK- My first custom fixed blade fighter was a 7-inch Randall Model 1 which I bought in
1980. It definitely had a role in the design of the KFK as did the Kabar Fighting Utility
Knife. Since both knives were used during WW2 I guess you could say it coincides. I’m
not one for reinventing the wheel. If it works, use it.

MDP- It seems to be fairly common knowledge that you have collaborated with
knifemakers to see that your concept of the ideal tool is available. Your collaborations
with Al Polkowski are fairly well known, the Bulldog and Pug are familiar sights, you
have also worked together on the Scorpion, Companion and Gaunt, can you tell us a little
more about them? And how did the collaboration begin?

BK- I had a hard time finding a knife that could perform the way my mind’s eye wanted
it to perform. I started going to knife shows to see if there was anything close to my
ideas. I kept stopping at Al Polkowski’s table and picking up his knives. I bought a
couple at the next two shows and decided that he was the man who could do exactly what
I had in mind. It turned out to better than expected because Al was able teach me about
knife making and I was able to teach him about knife fighting. Al actually trained with
me when we first meet. He learned why I needed certain design features and I learned
how his knives are constructed and what parameters I had to work within. By both of us
having a better understanding of what the other does we were able to design and then
improve the KFF. To me Al Polkowski is in a league of his own in making concealed
knives. No one can match him. I thought so five years ago, and I still think that way
today.
The Companion was a designed that came from the request of a chief trainer of a SMU
who wanted a low profile knife to carry concealed. The Scorpion is the latest evolution in
my fixed blade series. For me it’s the most efficient fighting knife that I have designed. I
see it as the ultimate balance between size and effectiveness. You have to carry it and use
it to see what I’m talking about. The Gaunt is the results of some extensive neck knife
evaluations I did over the past year. I came to the conclusion that a neck knife should be
straight and flat to be low profile and comfortable, and it has to be designed that allows
sure draws under stress.

MDP- You have also collaborated with Pat Crawford, on the Kasper Folding Fighter.
How is that project going and, what is the story behind the Mini-Kasper and the neck
knife?

BK- The project is going very well. Pat designed exactly what I wanted. To date the KFF
has been his best seller so I guess we did it right. The mini-Kasper and the neck knife is
strictly Pat’s idea. I was not involved in their design.

MDP- What other knife makers have you collaborated with?

BK- Randy Lee, Jim Siska, Mike Sakmar, and Rob Patton.

MDP- Are there any plans for a production Kasper Folding Fighter or other Kasper
Knives?

BK- Yes, a folder. Hopefully you’ll see something in 1999.

MDP- What did designing the knives and working with knifemakers bring to your
combatives?

BK- Because I’m able to work the knife more dynamically and closer to reality it builds
confidence in fighting. I was always worried about losing a knife during combat
especially with some of the techniques I do. That is no longer a concern thanks to the
custom knifemakers I’ve worked with.

MDP- Speaking of the field of knives known as 'tactical', in your opinion are there any
common errors in design or execution?
BK- I think the biggest common error is custom knifemakers that put black handles on
any knife, subdue the blade, and call it tactical. I see this all the time at knife shows.
“Here’s my custom model, and here’s my tactical model.” I don’t think so. Other than
that I’m not aware of common errors. What might seem an error to me, may be ideal for
someone else.

MDP- What has your executive protection experience taught you about combatives?
What are the applicable lessons for civilians?

BK- Not to think from your muzzle out, but to think from his muzzle in. In other words,
know what to expect from your enemy. And without a doubt, awareness. Living in
condition yellow for up to 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 3 months at a time really
enhances your awareness and avoidance skills. Awareness and avoidance will get you
safely out of more jams than any amount of combative training ever will. And don’t think
that way of thinking is being cowardly. It’s not. It’s about being street smart.

MDP- What would you consider to be the most often overlooked considerations in
civilian tactical thinking, planning, and or preparation?

BK-The eminent physical and mental effects of danger, realistic scenario based training,
the importance of simplistic perfection of technique.

MDP- The Hi-Speed Benchmade AFCK variant of your design, what is the story behind
it, what led to the modifications?

BK- Just like the fixed blade, I was looking for that ultimate folder. The AFCK was the
closest knife I could find to what I was looking for. Not being exactly what I wanted I
came up with a few modifications that would make it more combat efficient. However, I
also like the quality, feel, and function of EDI’s Genesis. I’m looking into ways of
jazzing that one up for our kind of fighting.

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Further information about Bob Kasper and his various projects can be found at the Gung
Ho Chuan Website http://home.earthlink.net/~ghca/

If you would like to e-mail me, you can do so at mdpoff@hotmail.com but please keep
the abuse to a dull roar.