DEPOSITION OF WITNESS - COLUCCI FRANCESCO

THE WITNESS, AMMONIUM IN ACCORDANCE WITH ART. 497 CODE OF PROCEDURE

CRIMINAL LAW THE RITE OF FORMULA.
General: Francesco Colucci, born on 3/1/43 at (Atripalda) province of Avellino
PRESIDENT - must answer questions that will address the Public Ministry.

PROSECUTOR -
QUESTION - Hello Doctor Yes. So, remember that she was the commissioner at the time of Genoa.
You can specify the day of Saturday, July 21, 2001 at Police Headquarters who was also present
officials of ministerial or otherwise to assist it were precisely with positions of responsibility in relation
to the performance of the G8 summit.
ANSWER - So, the G8 summit was formed by the department of public safety, a task force, which is
practically all directions have been affected because a central police headquarters in the various
components refers to the second matter, a central management Digos then refers to the
commissioner in addition also the Head Office of Security, and the Flying Squad at the central level
refers to the Criminalpol and so on. So to prepare for the summit all the head offices have been
involved from Mr. Police Chief, because he was a summit that went beyond, say, a simple
organization of a police station. It is clear that a mil .. also arrived in Genoa on several occasions the
directors of these ministerial summits and on days 19, 20 and 21 were present in the Genoa area.
And the 21 days but also the fact some of these top 20 were present in the police and say that in fact
collaborated with these leaders were discussing the various issues that needed addressing from
moment to moment. And there was the Prefect Andreasi that in addition to being a ... a .. say, a
connection point of the Foreign Ministry with the Ministry of Interior and then with the police in Genoa
was also the deputy chief of police say, there was some ... other officials of the department relative to
the direction of Central Police prevention. Then it was also the Prefect of La Barbera who is the
director of the Central Police Prevention, then there was Dr. Gratteri who is the director of the Central
Operational Service, there was some officials who were, say, next ... I had to accompany the first-level
managers regarding the conduct of the summit. These are the most important names that I remember.
So there were always other officials of the department
Q. - Look, as well the main concerns ... major events so central that you mentioned were present
historically on Saturday, apart from the Prefect Andreasi in that capacity that you mentioned, Dr.
Gratteri, you mentioned here is the Prefect of La Barbera, what other names can you do?
ANSWER - Dr. Luperi were present, I believe, that always is part of the Central Police Prevention,
then there was Dr. ... There were executives and managers of Digos Squad of Genoa, was the vice
Quaestor Vicar of Genoa, was Dr. Pope and there was Dr. Murgolo who was then Deputy Vicar of
Bologna, however, was Quaestor Genoa to stand by e. .. have so many other officers of lower rank.
Q. - Okay. Look, the Director of Police for the prevention of NUCICOS, say, the Prefect of La Barbera
was present on Saturday at police headquarters at what point?
ANSWER - The Prefect Barbera came to police headquarters in Genoa in the afternoon do not
remember exactly because I remember I was in Central Office and at one point I saw that it was the
prefect of La Barbera. Please note that these people as well as the Prefect of La Barbera Dr Gratteri
say that day were present, but in other days that were coming and going .. were not always present
24 hours ... that is, always to the police station in Genoa, maybe they went to Rome and then
returned, in case that Barbera had already happened in previous time had arrived in Genoa that day
21 afternoon, early afternoon if I remember correctly, the police headquarters in Genoa, I l ' I saw that
he was in the Operations Centre.
Q. - Look, we have mentioned, I did mention, you mentioned, indeed, just the fact a Prefect Prefect La
Barbera is a prefect then an official of
ANSWER - It is the central director of the Police prevention
APPLICATION-The official who you mentioned earlier that Dr. Gatteri was not a Prefect.
RESPONSE-Dr Gatteri was senior executive, I said, the Central Operational Service.
APPLICATION-Dr Luperi that you mentioned was a manager, but it was not a prefect right? So ...
ANSWER - Dr. Murgolo yes, a first officer.
Q. - Luperi told.
ANSWER - No Luperi was a senior executive.
Q. - A senior executive. Dr. Mugello?
ANSWER - It was already a first officer
Q. - So the premise that you said that the central figures of ministry officials came and went, came
and went ...
RESPONSE - All right, for example, Dr. ... Please.
Q. - No, please, if you have to say ...
ANSWER - No, sorry.
Q. - I ask you know why on Saturday afternoon, the Prefect of La Barbera came to Genoa? There is a
need that manifested itself? Has anyone called?
ANSWER - Basically I do not know a particular need for which the Prefect of La Barbera came to
Genoa, but I can say that the Prefect of La Barbera often came to Genoa, there was a room, there
was a foreign police with whom he was in the cont ... he and his men were in contact at the police
station in Genoa, and there were its officers at the police headquarters in Genoa Dr Luperi and other
officials, Dr. ribs, then there were ... There were other officials say the Central Directorate of Police
Prevention, a situation in Genoa were certainly not quiet and then the Prefect La Barbera came to
Genoa also to check what was going to be supportive to its officers and to always have the contacts
that they have always had with the Foreign Police, but also because there has been some arrests of
some say, that the link with foreign police forces to urge the Police maybe even to write news about
the people who were there arrested
Q. - So distinguish his answer, and my question was, you know the exact reason why the Prefect La
Barbera came to Genoa?
ANSWER - These are ...
Q. - Let's say on Saturday afternoon, he says, say, the ... she does the same reference, is ... we say
right on the end of the summit agree? So why is a prefect from Rome to Genoa. So the question is ...
But I do not want to answer in his place, if he knows why he came, if you do not know if she can tell
me later known or if it has elements from which to infer what could possibly be .. reason. But it is
precisely the point.
ANSWER - Yes, I ...
Q. - You had already given the answers when he was heard ...

DEFENSE Lawyer Porciani

DEFENSE - CHAMBERS Porciani - President, forgive me, there would be a way of opposition. It's not
that you can tell the witness how it can answer, the witness becomes a question, then choose the one
you do not indicate the two to three, that is to say how he responds and answers the witness can not
give a range of alternative answers .
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - If suggestion is not pure.
PRESIDENT - I think the witness in this case is not susceptible to suggestion and therefore can
respond freely.
ANSWER - I can respond with the equanimity of that based on my operational experience and I think I
have a lot of experience operating an arrival of the Prefect of Genoa La Barbera is a natural thing for
me, I do not know why there were other special reasons, I only know him as on other occasions he
came to Genoa and was ... Control of aid to its officers, because we like to say also be operating on
the front lines many times to see what happens, so if there are other reasons I do not know them, for
me, from an operational standpoint I find something logic, for me, for him that, because Genoa at that
time was also his house, had its offices at the facility, so no, I did not see anything special.
Q. - But here is to eventually stimulate the point, because she understands that there may be an
alternative interpretation to what she says. The same question why she was in Genoa at first replied,
"why is the Prefect of Genoa La Barbera" The question ...
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - The Doctor can give the page?
APPLICATION - Page 22. "It is in Genoa for the connection we had with the police to the police
station so foreign to request any information from foreign police forces.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE - OUT MICROPHONE ...
ANSWER - Yes, I confirm. That is one reason that was, in fact. In addition to having his office ...
Q. - But if he was asked to clarify: "But since the afternoon of Saturday 21, which requires a link with
the foreign police?" She says, "The determination of foreigners, then they were even a few of the
other unless ... if I remember correctly, to solicit foreign police regarding an investigation they had to
do on foreign people arrested. " And you pointed out, "but how many foreign people arrested?" And
she replied: "Very few, very few believe", "So why the Prefect La Barbera came to Genoa, to solicit
what ?"...
ANSWER - see .. I can?
Q. - She responded by insisting on page 23 ...
INCOMPREHENSIBLE - OUT MICROPHONE ...
PROSECUTOR - Am I entitled to do that I think the challenge and submit it to the evaluation of the
Court. "He came to Genoa - Page 23 - Police went to the room where there were foreign aliens."
ANSWER - I can? Perhaps I was imprecise in the first statement, that is not inaccurate no ... know
sometimes you forget many things and many things ... we are natural things for people who might not
know the system can not know exactly certain developments or certain nuances, it is clear that the
arrests were a few of the foreign police, but take care that there was a constant flow of information
with foreign police , so I do not know exactly ... I can not assessable at this moment, I knew at the
time even estimate how many flocked to the news room of the foreign police, news information ...
Q. - Yes, of course. However, we saw that and I can see now, but sorry, Dr. Luperi was not enough?
That Dr. Luperi was present in police headquarters and could well manage, as I have managed ...

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - Excuse me President, calls for an evaluation, not a thing of which he is
aware, however.
ANSWER - but I can answer ...
PRESIDENT - can answer, yes, what is knowledge, not its assessment.
REPLY - I respond in this way, for those who make our work as the activity level of the judicial police,
Dr. La Barbera has made as many as I have made so many myself, many times when we send out
teams to work there is spontaneous we go on site to see what happens first thing that is inherent ...
Q. - Yes, but here ... Excuse me, am I interrupting you saying is that you do not have to explain a
phenomenon based on what she believes, the President told if and what is the reason ...
ANSWER - No, no, I ...
Q. - Because if you ... the we ... rational justifications so we can find ...
ANSWER - I'm sorry, what results is according to me, for my life experience and professional
experience was normal, in my opinion, the presence ...
PROSECUTOR - But I think this assessment is not the place ...
OUTSIDE VOICE MICROPHONE - Say "I do not know."
PRESIDENT - But the prosecutor asked her this now according to the personal experience of the
witness ...

PROSECUTOR
PROSECUTOR - I never asked for the second personal experience, because I wanted to ask another
question to see if the witness responds in a certain way. Sorry, this need that you have presented
here by Dr. La Barbera is the connection would come with foreign police in connection with the people
arrested have been told by someone if not by the Prefect of La Barbera?
ANSWER - Sorry Doctor ...
Q. - He may have learned from someone?
ANSWER - No, I said from the beginning that the Prefect of La Barbera came I saw it as a natural
thing, because on other occasions he had come. And then I added that he has an office in its staff
structure of the police, had his associates who were close to police headquarters, a room had foreign
police and obviously I did not ask anybody anything, my deduction is see ... is a normal thing to see
the Prefect La Barbera. If then there were other reasons the mountain I do not know.
Q. - I'm sorry, there has been a challenge and I have remembered that she said the Prefect La
Barbera came to Genoa for a specific reason given, I did not understand, and can be one of my
deficits, if why she learned me to have it confirmed by someone or by the Prefect? If you say that the
deduced tell me, tell the Court on what grounds he has raised, only that, but I think it is fair to
respond.
ANSWER - I have deduced it is a natural thing, I do not know, I'm sorry doctor, I can not ... nobody
told me, because it is not that the Prefect of La Barbera warned me before or police chief or deputy
chief Andreasi tells me: "Look, dude, or get there tomorrow foo" and at one point and it's natural to
see some senior officials of the department that venghino there to give help to the whole structure.
When I see the Prefect Barbera I have not raised the issue ... sure has come a little at a time
'especially in Milan where ... Genoa, excuse me, were in progress or on the morning of the accident, I
forget which, however, came at that moment and then it is well I mean, for me it is an aid to
structure ...
Q. - I believe that she is responding to me because I remembered that I gave her a specific reason
and do not know if she has now responded to my question. If this specific reason the learned or
inferred? She responds clear on this point ...
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - He said it five times ...
Prosecutor - Mr President, I can not tolerate comments.
PRESIDENT - If we want to avoid comments, if anyone should face the opposition of the exception or
the exceptions or opposition.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE - overlapping voices ...
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - President, I would like to make a request to that effect to the public
prosecutor, if he did his military service because he is doing ...
PRESIDENT - Lawyer no, she can not ask questions of the prosecutor. Eh, can only make
exceptions.
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - Do not you realize how the organization ...
PRESIDENT - This will tell you later. The prosecutor made a specific question to the heads and the
question is whether these patterns indicated that in his time there has deducted or saputi them from
someone, I do not think that there is difficulty in answering. I told someone or deducted them
personally?
ANSWER - No, I have raised.
PRESIDENT - That's it.
Prosecutor - has raised them?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Can I ask on what grounds they have put forward?
ANSWER - For the specific tasks which the Prefect had Barbera, such as that of foreign police and
his men in particular and that do not ...
Questions - it seemed then that Dr. Luperi Doctors at that time ...
ANSWER - The Doctor?
Q. - Luperi, that the deputy prefect of La Barbera, at that time was not able to provide ...
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - Mr President, there is no opposition.
(Overlapping voices)
Prosecutor - No, but evidently concluded he realized ...
ATTORNEY - DEFENCE - Before you ask the witness if the witness answers, and concluded, then we
see as part of the witness says. At that point, if you want to introduce an assessment is not allowed.
(Overlapping voices)
PRESIDENT - The evaluations of the witness ...
Prosecutor - is not a measure but ... okay.
PRESIDENT - And we are interested in his deductions relative. Then the witness can only answer to
facts that he witnessed and what he saw, not what you thought, or concluded so the questions should
cover only the specific facts.
Q. - So the inferred solely on the basis of the tasks that had the ... I close I want to understand why it
is my right and understand, it is fair to say that she deduced on the basis of specific tasks which the
Prefect had Barbera? Is that what you want to tell the court?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Very well. Then in the afternoon of Saturday 21, we can give it as given, is taken as a measure
intended to ensure that it has been said control of the territory. what is, on the basis of such
information, finite expressions, to ...
ANSWER - No, when ... runoff begins in the late afternoon, I believe, is not the protesters and then
there was a measure, you ... usually occurs when the outflow of a large event there is a wide-ranging
control of the territory ... so ... to ensure that runoff takes place in a peaceful manner, so, in a normal
and peaceful. So it's not that ... and then there was a virtually carraggio, say, very wide, was made
control of the territory to ensure that the flow in a quiet and peaceful.
Q. - What, say, the initiative has been taken?
REPLY - But no initiative in particular, the staff was in the area wanted a check that the outflow
attimino happen ...
Q. - How?
ANSWER - How?
Q. - In what way, as we have done this check?
REPLY - But the moment the flow ... is not that there is a particular way, of course, is inherent that
is ...
Q. - Dr. Colucci, were organized in squads of the so-called mixed composition for control of territory or
not?
REPLY - But I would not say the squads were organized in my opinion, there were staff who was in
the area and also the various patrols Digos, the various patrols of territorial control were as is
customary for us to station expand and allow the flow takes place in a calm manner. And now that
there is not an organization and an ordinance does not do this or that, it's ...
Q. - But nobody said that this initiative goes through a formal measure such order, I've mentioned, I
did so then the question was direct and perhaps suggestive because many witnesses have reported
the fact that I asked her. So if you have responded so elusive because there is no formal procedure I
understand it, but I assume that were established, and is something that comes to this Court by other
people ...

DEFENCE MR. Di Bugno

DEFENSE - MR. Di Bugno - President I'm sorry. Defense attorney Luperi Di Bugno. No, only a matter
of method, report that a condition has been introduced in the process of introducing it and other
witnesses with leading questions, that's great demand because the prosecutor already suggestive
poses and goes well as a hostile and therefore also the suggestive question is fine ...
PROSECUTOR - But a witness is not hostile, that I wanted to make the point ...
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - MR. Di Bugno - No one spoke when he asked the question suggestive and therefore we
ought to believe that it is only in this perspective, because she knows that only in this way, compared
to what is the evidence against them, no one intervenes, however, then she introduces that 'element
that does not wrap the preliminary hearing on the grounds that the witness did not attend and that she
summarizes in this way can also be questioned by an evaluation of all other procedural subjects, I
think that is not regular.
PRESIDENT - Lawyer, excuse me, but I think that is all but ritual because the prosecutor initially
asked the witness if he knew if they were willing of the squads. Once the witness has answered that in
his opinion had not been arranged, the prosecutor merely reminded the witness that other witnesses
had spoken of these squads. And at this point I ask the testing news, information on the other side,
then it seems to me that there is nothing amicable.
DEFENSE - MR. Di Bugno - as a rule, look, I just went back to the Court to determine if a rule was
accepted very well.
Prosecutor - A lawyer, there are questions, since it is a fact that is peaceful for us that can help to
arrive, as it were, more often to the point here. But if you ...
(Overlapping voices)
PRESIDENT - We can go?
Q. - Doctor, here's the thing ...
ANSWER - I would like to clarify this, even after a football game there you recreate a more intense
control of the territory wide-huh, to prevent attacks, to avoid situations of social unrest. Just as in that
context, are created on that day or were already patrolling the area, not create it, were already on the
ground.
Q. - Then maybe I'd better shut: she has taken an initiative in this formal sense, has given indications
that in some way for training, but these patrols, monitoring of the territory for the purposes that you
expressed so or not? Maybe she does not ...
ANSWER - Yes, but it is a matter of course, is that normal ...
Q. - Is it okay, but I do not want an assessment, he did it or not?
ANSWER - Ma .. Doctor, is not that I was in the operations center, is a consequence. As the operator
ends a manifestation of central sensitization all operational police on the ground "and 'over the event,
there is a runoff, I recommend attention, the usual controls, or whatever." Honestly, not that I do so I
said, is a natural thing for me.
Q. - I'm sorry, you have taken an initiative in this regard or not?
ANSWER - No, not about the initiative. Why do I say it is one thing ...
Q. - Do you know if others have taken ...
ANSWER - I do not know.
Q. - The initiative in this regard?
ANSWER - I do not know, but I repeat, is a natural thing that is ...
Q. - Okay, was the first to say "I did not do anything about, nor have I heard that others have done"
and spared this interlude. Perfect.
ANSWER - I can only say one thing, that ...
Q. - But she is not aware of the facts, there is no problem, there is no problem. Then we move on.
Introduces the theme of the squads because the next question is, has been reported that during a
service territory through what I call, to have learned from others, squads ...
ANSWER - It 'as a concept, however wrong, huh. The patrol is it something else, that territorial control
is a
Q. - Okay. Patrol that is ...
(Overlapping voices)
Q. - I am a patrol from the profane has made great, is it different? However it does not matter. Do you
know something special happened during the service area of, say, on the evening of Saturday 21?
ANSWER - Yes, I know this, that to ... that is, the patrol has a purpose, a ...
QUESTION - We have closed, that is, I am happy enough ...
ANSWER - I repeat, everyone speaks according to his professional experience, even ... I speak of my
colleagues in the Court, because each one then ... however, I learned, I was in the office with the
Prefect Andreasi, the Barbera and the names of those I have mentioned here before, came to me and
Dr. Dr. Di Berardino Calderozzi ... with agitated make enough red in the face, because that official ...
Dr. Di Berardino was attacked during his transition to a school. The attack was say resulted in stone-
throwing, invective in short, I almost had described a situation quite alarming and significant forces
against the police.
Q. - Look, this ... say that the story is exposed, and she said Calderozzi Di Bernardini?
ANSWER - Di Berardino. Bernardino, yes.
Q. - Can you remember more or less present at that time in his office? she did name a few.
ANSWER - If I remember correctly there were Andreassi, was present on ... Dr. La Barbera, Dr.
Gratteri e. .. Dr. Murgolo think, now I do not remember well, however, there was a bustle in my office
and still could be people who could be the limit ...
Q. - Dr. Luperi remember?
ANSWER - Maybe even Dr. Luperi.
Q. - I'll remember because it was one of those who had mentioned ...
ANSWER - Dr. Luperi ...
Q. - In his report of 1 October 2001.
ANSWER - Yes, but you see, Dr. Luperi was one of those officials together with La Barbera, Andrea is
the person who was physically almost always present in my office ...
Q. - But I now I have asked the historical fact that those present at the time. Names did not
correspond to all those who did, I took the liberty ...

DEFENSE - If you must challenge him to put ...

Q. - Yes, and the only one missing was asked him. I quoted the minutes of October 1, 2001. She's not
careful.
DEFENSE - Maybe so. I read it.
Q. - Luperi. Bed. Luperi. That is, not a hollow name. If not, if you want me to do a list ...
DEFENSE - Yes, you may be more accurate if Dr. Luperi was present or not. I may be so, well ...
Q. - Okay. They say this episode. She said "red face", so ...
ANSWER - Yes, in other words .. aggression is quite significant, so it was not considered by all those
present, really quite serious and quite simple.
Q. - What is happening?
RESPONSE - and then I, on the other hand, I called Dr. Mortola, who was then director of Digos, and
I do not remember if and sooner or later, however many of the 2 directions from me, Dr. Mortola. First
indication is to call Covaci. Covaci was a representative of the Forum of Genoa, to which the common
belief, or (inaudible) had given the structure of that school and I remember ...
Q. - This initiative takes her own ...
ANSWER - I took it myself. I do not know if others suggested. I learned so decided, so much so that
urgently to ensure that ... the result of that phone call, I went with Dr. Mortola in his office. There was
me and him. He called the Covacha ... Covaci ... what's his name, the referent of Genoa, who ruled in
the strongest terms ...
Q. - I'm sorry, let me. I want to (inaudible)
(Overlapping voices)

PRESIDENT - Then, the prosecutor has the right to conduct the examination as it sees fit. Please let it
end. Then when you get your ... cross-examination, say and do all you need. You're welcome.

PROSECUTOR - put in reserve by the fact that you mentioned. Mr. Covaci, on which I can talk about
later. I interrupted to ask you something. I asked her, learned this, what was the reaction. She says: "I
called Dr. Mortola and I took this initiative which was describing." I told her, "on their own?", And she
replied, in essence, "yes, yes. We understand. "I would remind you that in the minutes of October 1,
2001, I reread them, because you compare it with this report, she said:" As soon learned this news,
the doctors Gratteri, and Calderozzi Derluscò, suggested to intervene immediately. He was in charge
at this point ... etc. ". So it looks like .. ie, there is a reaction, an initiative by ... After that, she
remembers this particular, this nuance, or not?
ANSWER - You see, in front of an action where your staff was, say, in quotes, "mistreated", he was
attacked, it is clear that there is a spontaneous moment of perplexity, of the seriousness of the thing,
and now that Calderozzi,. Or Dr. Gratteri, we must intervene in this, honestly, spend the time, I do not
remember. I go to the salient fact. What what ... (Inaudible) if and how we intervene. If it is right or not.
These are my considerations I did to myself, so I tried to do some investigation to do so.
Q. - Now, if you can help the memory, as the ...
ANSWER - I'm sorry, Doctor. It is possible that even after the Prefect Andreazzi has suggested that I
have said, "phoned Covaci"
Q. - Yes, but sorry. Since you said "I do not remember," is about, you know, for immediate action,
reaction, Doctors Grattieri-Calderozzi, that is disputed, and was denied. She responded: "It is clear
that I said at the time we see a little bit what's going on, but you are saying that at the time remember
well that before I (inaudible) I have to think." The question. Then, the Doctors Gratteri - Calderozzi
suggested what? "Well, I remember that Gratteri, the Calderozzi remember, I have already spent
several months (inaudible) we say, people (unintelligible) we have to go there, and see. As a result of
their aggression and their will to intervene. She asked: "What does that mean?". She said, "means
having to take action to identify people who had attacked. And 'this in essence. "And then he also uba
series of ...
REPLY - But this is inherent in the interview ... that is, that when I first called, when, Calderozzi Dr.
and Dr. (inaudible) came to me (unintelligible) were red-faced (inaudible) was so excited ... that was
inherent in that context, "we must do something." But I do not remember exactly. That is a
consequence as if he had received a 2 slaps, is almost tempted to say, "We must do something."
Then at a certain point takes over the decision, quietly, calmly, to review a little bit as if you can ... to
do the checks anyway. Things that have been made.
Q. - Yes, but ... I can say one thing, without seeking, say the anger of the Lawyers? She responds to
what he remembers being "historically" successful. If she makes with divisibilissime interpretations
and remains rational, all right, but we can all do. That is, we are interested in the bare facts without
assessing inherent, say ...
ANSWER - I do not remember this will ...
Q. - Then, the stark fact that has been recalled, she explained very well on the other, as for
psychological reasons, she was reminded that in his original story is an initiative, in short, an invitation
that comes from part of some people. Here. And this stress you ... I remember that ... reminding the
solicitation, is after the question, "but she decided to do something yourself," this makes sense. You're
welcome.
ANSWER - well, in the face of this aggression that took place there was a time of loss, a time of
testing ... is not that it was taken as good news, where the street was one of our patrols was attacked
with stones, that is to kick the car ... There was a moment of ...
Q. - that theme is? "What do we do?".
ANSWER - We do what?
Q. - Very well.
ANSWER - At this point we do ... verify certain data, and so I have instructed to (inaudible) review
certain situations. There were 2 to verify it. The first, an inspection on the spot, and another that said a
moment ago, to interest the person who had custody of the school to see who was inside, and what
was the actual situation.
Q. - Look, the confirmation of a place, was aimed at what? What do you mean "a finding on the spot"?

ANSWER - finding the place to see and to do a test to see who was there, how many people could
be, and that attitudes were in these people.
That is, in essence to do an inspection. To see a little 'environment, how many people could be, what
their attitude, so ... A determination that ...
Q. - But for what purpose?
ANSWER - For the purposes ... to know, to know the places, events, and people who were there. The
assessment was made by Turmotta, I believe, a motorcycle, he did a lap around them ...
Q. - Excuse me, I remember about a slightly different answer. That is a question that has been done
several times on the basis of its response. To the question "but to intervene, to do what?", "Is to see,
identify" page (inaudible) who had aggredite.E 'this in substance. "
Page 11. page 12 repeats "Our intervention was intended only to identify and to accompany the police
station in charge of the assault." Page 15 "because (inaudible) when we were (inaudible) let's identify
these people, who may are still responsible for other incidents. In short, this was our purpose. An
intervention to identify these people. " Pegina 13. page 15, she stresses "the goal is (overlapping
voices)
DEFENSE - President, forgive me. I've got to oppose this way of dealing with (inaudible). First, there
is no contradiction, according to the witness was trying to explain why he sent ... was trying
desperately to say the rain breaks, 2 things, and he gave clear. In particular we want to pick a
contradiction, that I feel (inaudible), because the sending of Dr. Mortola was prior to any action to be
taken. The witness was saying "I sent Dr. Mortola to make an inspection." The context that the
initiative was also aimed to be something else, possibly anticipating a question that should be
addressed to the witness. I say "after the inspection, do what you wanted?", But you can not read him
for the purpose of confusing, because this is the result in the end not even wanted, but the practical
result, jump pages of the record, when the witness was linearly exposing his memory, President.
Q. - I have a different interpretation, the President, the logical line of my questions. I think the
recording I can give faith. But if every time I must discuss with the attorney general to my question ...
Lawyer and unfortunately not enough open space of the counter-baccalaureate examination, and
unfortunately the pace of the examination is affected.
JUDGE - So I think that this dispute is entirely ritual, this one, and then it is responsible. Why not ...
useless to stop here every minute of this deposition heads. And I think initially she had spoken of an
interest to see what there was in school, and then also spoke about identifying who was in school, so
we need a clarification. First what did you think, then you change your mind, or have tried to do
something else. This is what he asked the Public Ministry, and the complaint sought clarification on
precisely these ...
PROSECUTOR - because I was just in process questions "to intervene, to do what?". I reminded him
of ... decided ... suggested to intervene, and she introduced, and meanwhile send Mortola to inspect,
and I asked him, "but the purpose?". I reminded him that she said that the aim, primarily, was to
identify people. Was to stimulate his memory.
DEFENSE - Excuse me, then I oppose a moment. It should be said the prosecutor, who is contesting
an initial part which is a riassuntino of October 2001. Then it is integrating with the spread instead the
heads of the transcription phonographic (inaudible)
PRESIDENT - Objection rejected. The witness can answer.
ANSWER - So, is referred to my office this aggression that occurred to the officials and staff of Digos
and the Flying Squad. The way they have been told is a very accurate and very ... 4 and then all these
are a bit 'jumped (inaudible) this aggression, why not. Then make clear that if the inspections and
surveys, you go to ask if the school is still Covaci ... then in use or not, it is clear that there is a speech
with any consequential action. On this ...
Q. - But if the President rejects the exception of lawyers, on my direct question, whether or not you
confirm that the aim was also to whom the survey was finalized, to see the ... if the condition was to
identify the person responsible, and instead she says on this point. Not that they do a little 'of the
racket and then get the same effect. This is the problem. You must answer the point.
DEFENSE - voice over the microphone - a little 'offensive, President.
JUDGE - But I would say that until now we had constant interruptions, when we could have the heads
quietly without any interruption.
DEFENSE - Excuse me President, forgive me. I want to clarify, do so at least I avoid stress, which she
has the concept of difference between interruption and objection to the application? Because if not,
make the risk of interruptions, and I do not want them. Tell me when will I oppose ...
PRESIDENT - (inaudible) his experience as a lawyer, I think, knows full well what the opposition are
"serious" and those made (overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - Mint, I tried, but risk of being interruptive, believe me, my spirit is not interrupted. I'm
trying to resist when I note that one thing, in my opinion, contrasts, but it is subjective and limiting my
point of view.
PRESIDENT - then, as we are all here, and you even said yourself that we are here to ascertain the
truth. It seems to me that all these exceptions, anything you do not have significant, if not from that of
ascertaining the truth, are completely unnecessary. So you can go on peacefully without this
continuous block. Please
Prosecutor - the defender can make a groundless opposition, and from his point of view might be
based. I do not seem smart to say that the opposition of a defender is not serious. It will not be
established, the court rejected it, but I do not think that it should be qualified in a certain way.
(Inaudible) the right to admit or not admit it, but to evaluate it serious or not serious, frankly I do not
seem geared to elegance.
PRESIDENT - On this can be in complete agreement.
DEFENCE - So, Mr. President, excuse me, worse is to say that the defenders make a racket, why not
allow this, if we are allowed to say a word on this particular point. Thank you.
PRESIDENT - On this ...
PROSECUTOR - President tolerate insults to the Public Ministry a lot more than that.
DEFENSE - Now we have not told us, but you have said worse.
ITEM - Yesterday there was a sudoku, which I think is the equivalent of a racket.
DEFENSE - I see a spreading disinformation by the Public Ministry.
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - Get information on what the sudoku. Sudoku is done in silence.
Prosecutor - the purpose ... never mind ... review the work of others means the purpose, and non-
technical exception.
CHAIRMAN - Okay, continue.
PROSECUTOR - I act in self-defense, President.
PROSECUTOR - Q. - So, and please reply. Dr. Mortola is designed to identify what is what. I
remembered that you said that they should be because the purpose is to see if you can identify the
attackers.
ANSWER - Dr. Mortola makes these findings. In these investigations are aimed at a possible
intervention. Depending on the outcome of the investigation, we could decide whether or not to
intervene.
Q. - The project aims to identify.
ANSWER - The project aims to identify.
Q. - I use his words.
ANSWER - identify the people who were involved aggression. So what did Dr. Mortola. With me, we
went to call Covaci, we came out of my office, we went into the office of Dr. Mortola, and from there he
phoned the Dr. Covaci. And I heard that Mr. Covaci ...
Q. - Who was Covaci?
ANSWER - Covaci is ... was a representative of the Genoa Social Forum at which the City had given
the structure.
Q. - Why Covaci phones?
ANSWER - because Covaci is one of ... Our contact person is the Genoa Social Forum. We also
knew that he was in that frame and then call it. To find out ...
Q. - That is, the intervention is clear cha to be achieved in the structure of the Genoa Social Forum?
ANSWER - the intervention must be done in that school. The school was being entrusted to the
Genoa Social Forum.
Q. - so it is clear to you that the site of surgery is a building ...
ANSWER - Yes, it was the oratory. I think that the building (inaudible)
Q. - It was the oratory.
REPLY - But I think so, in other words.
Q. - Okay. Perfect.
ANSWER - On the other hand all those who came to Genoa for the protest, all were part, by telling
them, of the Genoa Social Forum. They were about 800 acronyms.
Q. - Okay. This we know.
ANSWER - It was a willingness by the City of Milan had entrusted to Mr. Covaci, and Morettini. We
were with a lot. With Covaci, Morettini, and now someone else can not remember the name. However,
we phoned Covaci. Covaci replies: "Look, that structure we do not care anymore. We went from there
to that structure. Because there is runoff. Here is a casino for the runoff. " Point. "I do not know who
we can be in and who has occupied the facility."
Q. - What makes the reference structure?
ANSWER - the former Diaz Pertini school. The state where you had surgery.
Q. - do not. I do not know where he had surgery. The Court must accept where he had surgery.
ANSWER - the surgery was done at the Diaz school, which I learned that the popes, I then, I later
learned that Diaz was a band called, but in fact it was the school Pertini, I believe. And then there was
before ... then the 'I knew after this, before there is another school called ...
Q. - I want to know at that time.
ANSWER - at this time was the school ... School for me was the "Diaz", because I was told ...
Q. - on the basis of your information and then, in the availability of the Genoa Social Forum. So much
so that phones Covaci.
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) so much so that phones Covaci, who reported that they had
abandoned the home, he did not care anymore, and you did not know who had occupied that seat.
QUESTION - these things she relates, he hears with his ears by Mr. Covaci?
ANSWER - I hear with my ears because they are repeated aloud by speaking with Dr. Mortola Covaci
appliance. That is, when l Covaci espiegazione in Mortola, Mortola repeats them aloud, I am there
with him in his office and I feel it.
Q. - you know, just because Mr. Covaci was heard here in open court as a witness, but because there
was a Parliamentary fact-finding inquiry that Mr. Covaci not agree with what ...
DEFENCE - Mr. President, excuse me, there's ... (Inaudible)
(Overlapping voices) but you can not tell the witness, "She knows that on the survey Parliamentary
said the opposite."
Voice-over microphone - we want an immediate comparison
PRESIDENT, here is a clear opposition, forgive me.
PROSECUTOR - then the question is: I'm sorry, she laid before the House Committee?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Very well. She told the House Committee on these things?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - she was in that context, if reported, that the version she gave did not correspond to what he had
done?
DEFENSE - President, here too there is no opposition. Because the acts are acts of the Parliamentary
Commission to political content, I think I do not have use for the dignity of a dispute alò witness.
PROSECUTOR - But yesterday we saw a newspaper
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - President, I am asking that you respect the form codicistica. I realize that when you have
no other resources trying to get out of the code. O At this time it detects a discrepancy between the
deposed testimony of Dr. Colucci, and witnesses deposed ... (Inaudible) Dr. Covaci, and the Court has
it all home to check the comparison, then the ritual form any conflict, or permanence of conflict, but
you can not call the witness that the witness made ... facts that the witness did not attend, that the
deposition of Dr. Covaci, in another place like that ... (Inaudible) from the defense, Gratteri, there
would be opposition to this type of ... (Inaudible)
PROSECUTOR - rephrase the question this way: the witness who placed in the Parliamentary
Commission, has the witness in that forum were asked questions that challenged his version on the
basis of this statement Covaci? I ask the witnesses heard by the defense what the prosecutor asked
them. Do not see why I can not ask the witness, in a location that is not the court, what he said, that
what they asked.
DEFENSE - President, for my part I renew the opposition, then the Court decides, because this opens
up a method. In the sense that if the President today, this type counterpart, for the rest of the process
at this point I will take care to use all the data of which may have possession, to contest the said.
So I am opposed to this type of methodology, then I accept that the Court can teach me to use it
instead.
Prosecutor - We asked, however, the production of documents, and then, for heaven's sake, are
suitable ...
PRESIDENT - I've seen, but was rejected.
DEFENSE - was rejected because the production of documents at the beginning ...
PROSECUTOR - I understand, but now we can ask the witness who deposed ...
PRESIDENT - (inaudible) as we may all deny what he said Covaci, which has already been heard as
a witness before us.
DEFENSE - but then that's fine President, but I oppose the use of foreign documents ...
(Overlapping voices)
Prosecutor - is not a document. I asked the witness if, on that occasion, took objection to the
realization that someone else has told different things.
DEFENSE - President, I renew the opposition. The criminal trial is done in the classroom criminal acts
with criminal proceedings. Everything else ...
PROSECUTOR - make us ask questions but ...
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - I'm not using other acts. Are using an act that the court, for example, has not. Are using
an act the court has not and can not even (inaudible)
PROSECUTOR - I'm asking a question. I asked the witness what he was asked.
DEFENSE - It is introducing a given that the Court did not, and then being outside of the case, in my
opinion not usable.
PROSECUTOR - Who makes reference on the occasion?
DEFENCE - You are saying ... In committee, she said, the court does not cover acts in the
Parliamentary Commission.
PROSECUTOR - I did not ask that. I told the heads ..
PRESIDENT - AND 'useless to continue arguing. So, this type of request, according to the Court, has
no relevance because it can not get any results, so we can move forward with other questions. You're
welcome.
PROSECUTOR -
Q. - But the Court knows, and in this instance I support the defense, that there is a stark contrast, the
testimony given by a witness in this process ...
PRESIDENT - since you can dispute, that is to point out that the witness Covaci, heard here as a
witness has placed in a different way from what he is saying.
PROSECUTOR - we can also follow the procedure, as it were, Article 207, in which there is a ...
PRESIDENT - AND 'right to Article 207 to object to a deposition of another witness.
PROSECUTOR - (inaudible) renewing, seen from the case, the warning (inaudible) provides the same
warning if a witness ... (Overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - President, excuse me. Lawyer Bugle. That rule, of course, is interpreted as if it interprets
the prosecutor would be absurd. In the sense that he would always benefit the person who made the
first evidence that maybe is not to be false. That is, can not deny that Covaci said something different.
Admonishing the witness.
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - President termino ..
PRESIDENT - I call everyone to follow what we are doing. Nobody said that it referred to the
witness ...
DEFENSE - Have you read this rule ...
PRESIDENT - the prosecutor - can say what he thinks ... best. What I do is something else. I simply
said that it may be present and not contested, the witness before him that the test Covaci said
different things.
So if you want to do the utmost attention to what he remembers, and answer questions.
PROSECUTOR - President, on a problem, say (inaudible) that there is a little 'a matter of minutes,
transcripts, we see here is on the verge of going, but I did not understand if the general objection, the
Covacha (inaudible) may suffice , here. In the sense that ..
DEFENSE - Excuse me President, it is clear that one can not criticize the witness said the other. You
can do this, I think this was the spirit of the court, that the results of another test declarative contrasts
with what he says. Then there is the institution of the comparison that was made for this type of
litigation in c in a non-traditional as we are venturing to do cvi.
ANSWER - Doctor, I repeat what I said before, and this is what gave me the strength to decide
together with all those that were in my office to intervene. Because we had the certainty, of the party
at that time, the school had been abandoned ... (Inaudible) and then had been occupied by strangers.
At this ...
Q. - I'm sorry. He said to Mr. Covaci, I do not know if it's Doctor or not, you asked who's in school?
ANSWER - A Covaci wondered exactly this: that what we asked Covaci, Dr. Mortola will then be more
accurate than me, if you will be heard. I asked: "Dr. Mortola, even if they had used the school, that
building, then I knew it was not even a school, then slowly ... he said; "Covaci no longer need. We are
in the process of flow, we left ... I do not know who ... obviously can not remember ... but Dr. Mortola
asked: "But then who's in it?". I do not know who's inside. We are no longer us. point. that was for me
an important element for me then take a budgets ... intervention which has since been done.
Prosecutor-intervention, she said, was aimed at identifying persons ...
ANSWER - the identification of intervention that was targeted patrol ...
Q. - you mentioned before, the only one who takes initiative, is to make the first call to Mr. Covaci, by
Mortola, this is the first thing he does? Then there is the first phone contact?
ANSWER - Sorry I can not remember if there was first contact by telephone or visit. I do not
remember exactly, maybe there was an inspection first, and then the phone ... I do not remember. 2
checks have been made anyway.
Q. - okkey, speak of the other control, which is not known whether before or after.
ANSWER - I do not remember.
QUESTION: - we speak of the other control. What has substantiated the other check?
ANSWER - (inaudible) that Dr. Mortola, a motorcycle, do not know if it went alone, or together with
another motorcyclist, I think they were 2, because by itself .. went for a quick tour around this building,
to see the environmental situation as it was. The result was that there were people making threats.
People with black clothes, then you could possibly identify that (inaudible) so it was a very heavy
there, in that building.
Q. - I want to clarify some 'better, here, refers to what Dr. Mortola ... we try to do an inspection on a
motorcycle. And see what goes where? If he remembers.
ANSWER - If I remember correctly, are also past six years, makes a move, one two I do not know
how, and what he sees in front of the building? He sees people who are there, and making threats,
people who have dark clothes, people ...
Q. - But excuse me, an observer ... threat to whom?
REPLY - But, see, bru ... pretty faces ... enough, we say, not joyful people, happy people, you see, I
do not know how to describe it, behold. It gives me an indication of an environment in a place a little
'at risk, at risk because ...
Q. - No, I mean, here is also talking to the defenders of the rights that the lawyers, not a (inaudible)
that a person (inaudible) that do not ... each element of clues ...
(Overlapping voices)
ANSWER - President forgive me, (inaudible) but I do not know (inaudible), when Dr. Motta is there
and tells me that the air is heavy there.
PRESIDENT - With the face might suspect.
RESPONSE - Face suspicious and there are people that He's got dark clothing, so basically basically
describes how, I assume I am, however, as an environment frequented by black (inaudible), as if they
have occupied that territory.
Q. - Look but if we have understood, the combination makes this site inspection the outcome of which
frankly I did not understand ... Covaci and the phone call, this combination provides you with how to
tell the check-in. And 'this correct and why?
ANSWER - There are two things that we take.
Q. - But if Covaci had asked and he said: "Our school is not !"...
INTERVENTION - President, eh this (overlapping voices) There's opposition ...
Q. - Okay, rephrase the.
ANSWER - We'll be there ... that (inaudible) ...
Q. - The purpose of why you asked if your school Covaci.
ANSWER - Because if it was their school, if they had been in, there would be a clear ... incavolatura
a, a ... a telephone discussion with Covaci pretty lit, "how dare you ...", that would come to ... I call it
for example ... Covaci we call ...
Q. - Yes, but on the basis of the discussions you were doing ...
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) Doctor did not call ahead. He says: (inaudible) and you go, period.
Q. - Yes, but if you care about ...
ANSWER - In this case there was all ours, allow me, all our cooperation in preventing a point of
division between us and (inaudible). The moment I have the impression that there are people inside ...
At this point you decide ...
Q. - Excuse me, have patience. I told her page eighteen transcript: "(inaudible) was the one who put
(inaudible) patrols, not even to find (inaudible) to find that person who (inaudible) responsible, a few
hours before other misdeeds in Genoa. But beware! This step ...", the point that I want to challenge,
"... it was decided when an anti-globalization had officially left the home, because if we are still Covaci
had told us ... we will not be (inaudible). " Why?
ANSWER - Because it was not appropriate. At that point intervene politically, that were ... was a ... eh
excuse, then how many times during the public Bengo thrown stones and we do not act? ... I've got a
stone in Genoa in the head, at (inaudible) of the game, and I did take the men. I do not give a damn to
identify ...
Q. - His answer is clear.
ANSWER - Thanks.
Q. - Perfect. (Inaudible) the outcome, then, in combination with investigations of texts and what brings
you?
REPLY - Oh, Let us take once the results of these investigations, it is clear that at this point, this
outcome has been reported to all those who were in my room and all those who, in essence, we
decided to intervene. I mean, I have not heard ... I heard ...
Q. - The interven ... we say ... qualify the operation. Intervention?
ANSWER - Intervention in the sense of it ...
Q. - Why do we have, and we left on base a little 'by the statements that you mentioned, that he must
try to identify the attackers, right? Therefore, the action you decide to do is, as we call (inaudible)
operation?
ANSWER - It 'to identify the attackers and also to find (inaudible) weapons, in which attackers could
(inaudible) management. Keep in mind that we were convinced, at least I was convinced, to find me in
the face ...
Q. - No, no, but now the question is precise and technical, we say. The intervention in what was to
be?
ANSWER - The intervention is needed to identify the attackers and find any weapons.
Q. - So?
ANSWER - It 'a question: "then"? So what ends? (Overlapping voices)
Q. - A search tell me that is suggestive. So expect the heads tell me who sits (overlapping voices).
PRESIDENT - just ask him was not impressive.
Q. - Ah, this is fine (overlapping voices).
INTERVENTION - A search does. (Inaudible) the whole day then takes care of the suggestive
questions again ...
Q. - You do not abuse my patience nor that of the Court.
PRESIDENT - Public Ministry continues ...
Q. - It is very difficult, but President ... examination because, oh no, the test is also a natural rhythm
that should be preserved for the authenticity of the same and these comments continuous, incessant,
are not responsive to a weapon of justice.
PRESIDENT - Well? So, we want to continue?
INTERVENTION - No, (inaudible) I also President.
PRESIDENT - Please.
Q. - So, you have to do a search.
ANSWER - The intervention was intended to hear from a search of Article 41 in those places.
Q. - I know, how mature this decision, if there are views ...
REPLY - But look, the only thing that I remember ... and then know, Mr. Prosecutor, in hindsight
everyone are good, the doubts concern the right or left, I remember, me and then one thing that I
remember exactly there was no concern, except one that of Dr. Mortola. What was done to me the
concern, when we went to call Covaci, that is, after ... immediately after ... that is, I seized the
official ...
Q. - Well, if you can I would like to reserve, we get to this, I would like to talk a little 'more about this.
Can I bring a little 'back, as it were, on the initial genesis, here. That is, who is the idea ... so who
takes the initiative, who is more decisive on the point ...
ANSWER - No, look, honestly, I do not remember. We were four, five, six person in the room and they
all agree in making the intervention (inaudible) ...
Q. - So, I go step by step, I have to do it she was very popular, especially behind many questions ...
so I go by grade, the first technical challenge to do, twenty page transcript, is "basically we agreed to
do this surgery, there were expressions clearly there was a particular check, that is, by those who
were attacked. But then we decided together to make this intervention, a boost from ... a boost in the
sense we were attacked, we must intervene, (inaudible), et cetera, et cetera. " So she was questioned
at the beginning.
ANSWER - I confirm.
Q. - There is a push that, especially coming from ...
ANSWER - Yes .. yes ...
Q. - This reminds us?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, perfect.
Q. - So, let's instead expressed the position that Dr. Mortola.
ANSWER - Dr. Mortola, when once we decided to do a search, I can not remember ... for that bit ',
what we remember and Mortola (inaudible): "Mr. Commissioner ...", are we going to put in words
could not see well, he sensed something, when he was so perhaps he agrees. And I said, "we have to
do it."
Q. - So, why and in what concerns ...
ANSWER - I do not remember what ... what was the concern that came to Dr. Mortola, but it is the
only officer that explicit, clear sense, that ...
Q. - Yes, but what was the substance of this concern? It was moved ...
ANSWER - (inaudible) I do not know what was the substance. I only know that he said that phrase,
said: "Perhaps we going to get into trouble, but that it is all over ...", in other words do not exactly
know the substance ...
Q. - It, then, her perplexity ... must introduce the perplexity, she did not answer this with ... do we tell
the type of surgery and lens to do, say, to be searched, we can now tell if you (inaudible) search.
ANSWER - No, (inaudible) the objective ... no ...
Q. - No, she first told me specifically, I'm sorry does not (inaudible) ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Well, we said (inaudible) of Covaci that the school was not (inaudible) availability (inaudible),
otherwise we would not have said she did not?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So the concerns of Dr. Mortola, adhered to this very fact, that is my assessment, sensitivity to the
objective? That was no reason to type, in quotes, "political" or relationship with (inaudible), but
belonged to say in its professionalism, its competence, that this kind of relationship with ... adhered to
this? To make it clear to the Court here, or if they have doubts because of an operational (overlapping
voices) ...
ANSWER - The lens type may not know he had some concerns. Or could also be confusion due to
the fact that we are now in the process (inaudible) as we go to load the other tests, on the other ...
see, an aggression that has been said that the staff of the State Police had suffered. Aggression that
was, I described, quite violent ... and this is a speech, the other speech when, at some point, I urged
you not remember by whom, to send personnel to the Brignole railway station, because there is
(inaudible) thousand, ten thousand protesters were still and did not go on the trains. Someone said to
me: "Send some wards," I sent no one because I do not mean to go on the ward, meant turn, to blow
the fuse, because now it was over. And to me what I did, I sent the (inaudible) and I have alerted the
railways, I do not know if I was clear in expressing what are the questions, in that case it's okay and I
did nothing in that case , (inaudible), having had those considerations ...
Q. - You thought the foundation of the (inaudible) at the time of ... I do not know ...
ANSWER - (inaudible) with the fact that we had to go to the search.
Q. - Look, I do not know if I say to remember the twenty-page transcript, she first said, "but when he
Covaci phone call, when it is not (inaudible) in the room." Here, she was in the room ... ie, all followed
the call of ... she said, in the previous (inaudible), 2002, the transcript of the minutes is integral in
short, I do not find the date, page twenty-one, I repeat again that Mortola said: "Quaestor here we go
getting into trouble, but if we go, I stress this is true, why has not happened in my room, because
when he went to call Mortola Covaci, since it did not come from me because we put a little 'time, then
I went to his room to solicit, this is true. " There does not seem right that she was present throughout
the call as reported by the witness.
ANSWER - I remember, basically, I went into the room of Mortola. I remember, basically, what has
Mortola ... (Inaudible) did not call right away, he thought (inaudible) a little 'time, I remember that I
went in his room and I heard Mortola.
Q. - Is there a (inaudible) than what he said?
ANSWER - I remember exactly, I can confirm now that the phone he said that phrase, so while talking
to Covaci.
Q. - Here, these concerns and this theme Mortola confronts her with, say, face to face in the ...
ANSWER - Yes, obviously, now I correct myself, apparently in the room I had already almost decided,
say, (inaudible) for which (inaudible) of the intervention. So we ... (Inaudible) the first two things, if I
then said that sentence in Mortola, if Mortola told me that it was risky in that circumstance, I do not
know as you said, (inaudible) concern (inaudible) search, and I obviously said: "we must do it",
apparently ...
Q. - Yes, but I first I pointed out here that, whereas before she had said she watched the whole phone
call, as long as Mortola, with ... (Inaudible) (overlapping voices) of the sentences.
ANSWER - (Unintelligible) Doctor, I said this, I attended the call, I left my room as you (inaudible) ...
Q. - (inaudible) the call.
ANSWER - I'm not ... I do not know, I do not remember.
Q. - No, I remembered that I have here.
ANSWER - Yes, I said that because, obviously, I came out, now you reminded me, I left my room to
call to solicit Mortola, apparently ...
Q. - It seems to me, if you (inaudible) well, that was on the phone Mortola Covi, there is a little
'(inaudible) (overlapping voices).
INTERVENTION - I'm sorry the President by what he read is not so ...
ANSWER - (inaudible) when I arrived, (inaudible), a question to which I have answered before they
Mortola says to me in that circumstance. "Mr. Commissioner, look, it's better than ..." and I say: "we
must go", apparently already in the other room, it was (inaudible) ... we decided maybe (inaudible).
Q. - Then we come to this point. So, in fact she had ... reunited with Mortola Mortola goes back to the
room ... Something happened in the other room. In his room, say, the room ...
ANSWER - What is it?
Q. - Well, (inaudible) tell you.
ANSWER - (overlapping voices).
INTERVENTION - There is opposition to this way of asking questions, something happened ... ask the
question.
Q. - And 'something happened is a perfectly acceptable question, something happened to the more
neutral and that there is more specific.
PRESIDENT - Let's move on please ...
ANSWER - Dr. Mortola, once you call me, I went to my room along with Dr. Mortola and said to those
present the result of the call.
Q. - Yes, but what Mortola answers?
ANSWER - I told the Mortola: "Look, Dibba do the search, we have to do this search", but does not
remember his response exactly ...
Q. - So the first outcome of this decision is made final call?
ANSWER - This decision, it was evaluating the possibility of doing this search, if it is satisfied, the two
findings that I described above. Once ...
Q. - But if the investigation had not come?
ANSWER - One time it was found that the school was no longer there (inaudible), people were ...
Q. - I follow his reasoning. There's his room, she said, occupied by all those present. She is present,
then at some point it away because it is in the room that Mortola phones Covaci thus evidently has yet
to bring the information.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - He did not say so, did not say that call. He said: "I go beyond the call to
urge him to do." (Overlapping voices)
PRESIDENT - If we speak in three is unlikely that we understand each other.
Q. - I'm sorry, on page twenty-one ...
PRESIDENT - I thought it was, sorry for a moment, it seemed that the witness has just said so, that
went into the room of Dr. Mortola, who had been instructed to call Covaci, who was calling and found
it.
REPLY - Oh well I do not remember President, I know only that I witnessed ...
PRESIDENT - Did you hear this call.
ANSWER - This statement (inaudible).
PRESIDENT - Then, these concerns have been expressed, as I understand it.
ANSWER - We have expressed the concern then once back in my room it was decided, finally, the
intervention because the environment was what it was, the call had those results and then we decided
to search.
Q. - I'm sorry, she says Mortola, when Mortola says, "do not we put ourselves in trouble."
ANSWER - No, Mortola says (inaudible) ...
Q. - some answers yes or no?
ANSWER - Yes, I said something ...
Q. - What?
ANSWER - If we do something we are somewhat 'pressed, we are involved in this discussion ...
Q. - What is pressed? We are a little 'Pressed ...
ANSWER - (inaudible) in the making, possibly, do something to react to this ...
Q. - You used a word: "we are somewhat 'pressed."
ANSWER - Under pressure, we are somewhat 'pressed ... that is ...
Q. - The confirm? What does it mean?
ANSWER - I mean that given the environment that we were there was a little 'affected, at least in the
presence ... Perhaps we should intervene.
Q. - No, no, no expresses, is expressed ... is expressed well. Develop the concept ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - There is opposition. How do you tell a witness expresses well? President,
is expressed well (overlapping voices) according to my desires, what does it mean?
PRESIDENT - He wants to understand what you mean when the witness spoke of being pressured or
influenced ...
(Overlapping voices)
Q. - I've got seven pages on pressure.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - President Excuse me, excuse me if I speak. I've heard all morning
examination (overlapping voices). I have seven pages on the topic, it is true that the examination
should not be stopped, and even lead it true that starting an argument by saying: "I have seven pages
on", it seems to me that the witness should be reassured at this time, to I think that answers the
questions (overlapping voices).
PRESIDENT - Lawyer wants me to explain, then, the meaning of his opposition?
Q. - (overlapping voices) does not exist legally.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Legally there is (inaudible) ... President, I have no problem placing it by a
legal point of view, God forbid, the 499 does not ask questions that we can somehow untruthful
answers, pressed on to say "I have seven pages," has a testimony that she (inaudible) to say ... we
can explain it?
(Overlapping voices)
PRESIDENT - The pages, which on pressure, as has been compiled? Invention of the prosecutor or
the witness statements?
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENCE - Mr. Bugno - President, and terms ... and terms because it seems that my actions are not
aimed at something different from what (inaudible) and terms. I submit that the evidence is assumed
here that is not a speech so to speak, but what he says is important now is useless to refer to
everything that has happened in the room of the Public Ministry. So, I agree that I am (inaudible)
questions ...
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Saying the room of the Public Ministry, I would never say that (inaudible)
made things as they should be according to the law, I say that statements are taken unilaterally, then
it is useless to continue to refer (inaudible), they ask questions with confidence because the witness,
(inaudible) in my opinion is pressed.
ACTION - Excuse me President.
PRESIDENT - Please.
INTERVENTION - rightly, in the room the defendant had (inaudible) Dr. (inaudible) and when he heard
Dr. Colucci. It was a clarification.
PRESIDENT - Please.

DEFENCE MR. Mascia

DEFENCE - Mr. Mascia - President, I (inaudible) say one thing, we all do not look at the code
(inaudible) because the President says, "the code decides if the opposition is without formality,
accepted or rejected," here we we are all the rallies and the reality is this: Let us stick so well to this
rule. (Inaudible) and you can see if the application is impressive or not, because here I really do not
say, but for the respect that we must characterize as contradictory, in other words, you realize that
there is a continuous interruption of the examination, ie, Here I do not think that we are allowed on a
line. President, I ask (inaudible) to (inaudible) the parties, including myself, because we really lose the
thread also (inaudible) the witness has greater difficulties than those which would normally. Then, she
introduced this expression: that, somehow, there was pressure to make this intervention. Pressure is
a term that he used her ...
ACTION - Excuse me, President, (inaudible). This is a very different thing from what I heard.
(Overlapping voices)
Q. - but on occasions she has said this, remember that on page twenty-eight of the report (inaudible)
the contestation has been made. The minutes stated: "I rispesi to these concerns, namely Dr. Mortola,
we were pressed to do so from others." If what you said and now I want to say I forgive does not take
account of this dispute. If it is not what I wanted to express today, the context that you said in the
minutes, said: "we were pressed to do so on the record that in quotes ..."," pressed ", (inaudible) but
not pressed (inaudible) from others.
ANSWER - If I am not mistaken Mr. Judge, (inaudible) public prosecutor, in the same report
(inaudible) you mentioned today to correct the period to the next page as conditioned. It's no
different? Because I've always said, however, that (inaudible) ... I ... Since we talked about many
times I do not receivership, I never felt the police station, but I can say out loud that I was a little
'affected by the presence of other vertices. And I in that sense, (inaudible) mine, in the end I pressed
on how the term properly conditioned, and therefore in that sense I say that I was a little 'affected by
whether the search, because I sensed that some wanted to do the search .
Q. - I'm sorry, she says that "in the minutes after the initial term she has pressed then used the term
conditional". So, I do not find this, though I can read if I do not ... its final position, ie: "I would have
said (inaudible)," twenty-eight are from page to page thirty-seven, "I could do, say, the history of these
explanations."
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - Excuse me Mr. ...
PRESIDENT - (off microphone).
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President there is opposition, I can ...
PRESIDENT - The prosecutor makes a request, then the dispute will make later, but can read what he
has sown (inaudible).
Q. - No, no, I would I dare to say, the witness said: "I have stated on record that the term was pressed
in the sense of conditional". Since I do not find in the minutes.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - Yes, he said.
Q. - The witness and the witness or the witness has mentioned, I ask the witness to read its final
position? One in which clear, so I do not think he has said what you said today.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President allows me an opposition? To the extent that the code allows
me to do. Sorry, be patient, (inaudible) if we (inaudible) the opposition of the application or if not, is
that whenever one makes an opposition, as if casting a handful of sand in the eyes of the opponent, is
scheduled from I say that there is no code, not take it anymore. Wondered President, I oppose the
application because the application must relate to specific facts and can not be the object of
verbalizing the question (inaudible), I think this is the key point, I would like the Court and the
President informally teach us which method follow. It is not the pleading ...
PRESIDENT - Lawyer, I believe that is exactly what I had said before.

DEFENCE MR. CORINI

DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - I apologize.
PRESIDENT - If anything, she said better than me.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - No, no, never that, I apologize.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. TARTARINI

THE CIVIL - Lawyer Tartarini - No, however we can ... excuse the plaintiff intervenes a second, even
though we admit that the witness be recalled himself saying, "next page of the minutes I used another
term." For other with pinpoint accuracy ... I would say quite
PRESIDENT - (inaudible) what it means Lawyer?
THE CIVIL - Lawyer Tartarini - No, in fact, for me it was something that brought the witness I do not
think the prosecutor.
PRESIDENT - The witness will tell, now at full (inaudible) because it seems to me that there is a little
'movement, but here ... how things are going, that is, before we tell you what he heard, if thought to be
affected, said now, by the presence of leaders and what happened exactly. Then, if this does not
correspond with the declaration, make a dispute. You're welcome.
Q. - At the disputed even then, do not say (inaudible), because the statement that you were pressured
from others has made her, she replied: "because it comes pressed the Officer that had been attacked
me and says we must intervene. The same Dr. (inaudible) we have to intervene, Barbera has also
decided to intervene. " He made the decision to intervene, under pressure in this direction, ie from a
situation so strong, so we must take all defined here, is that I do not put words in my head ... the gun
at the head, we must intervene with in that sense, I felt that we had to practically intervene. That is,
this is a representation that refers to these interventions and statements by people with serious
(inaudible).
ANSWER - This ... This is, after ... I think it happens after the phone call that is made is not it? If I
remember correctly. This stage that (inaudible) is described next (inaudible) to Covic, once we have
the results of reconnaissance and Dr. Mortola ...
Q. - Yes, but (inaudible), but some (inaudible), I apologized when I was ... quell'esito after the site
inspection and the phone call, which expresses these concerns the Mortola what do you respond?
She instead: "that he must act" and I have remembered, "he said precisely pressed ...".
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President contest ...
Q. - And I asked him today: "What was this pressure?".
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - Dr. Zucca remember ...
Q. - I want you to be, as lawyers call them, the nuances may be more accurate to say if there have
been at that meeting, it was pressure from people because I think that ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President's new objection to the application. Mr. President ...
CHAIRMAN - There is no way.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - a question is not admissible in these terms, allow me Mr. President.
There is no opposition, he was asked a specific fact determined, ask him (inaudible) that I defend, it
has pressed specific fact (inaudible), I did not tell me you can ask the feelings and details and then
read. (Unintelligible) he pressed, Barbera has pressed the (overlapping voices).
Q. - And 'demand that the lawyer wants.
THE CIVIL - Lawyer Tartarini - But it is intolerable.
Q. - But it is intolerable.
PRESIDENT - Well, never mind if it is tolerable or intolerable, but certainly we must ask the heads of
the specific facts ...
Q. - The position of the individual is not present specific fact Mr. President?
PRESIDENT - Then, ask the witness if the Prefect and Barbera told him: "We must do the searching."
ANSWER - The Barbera and said the person, if I remember correctly, decided to intervene.
Q. - President No, I want to understand what (inaudible) this pressure, in essence, from what is
determined by the figure of man, by the position of these questions I have the right to make her a
witness and the Court 's interest to know that pressure, he calls, that environment is created in what
was. If the Court wants to know what happened in that room, we must ask (inaudible) I'm trying
desperately to court to ask a witness to be more specific in detail, what has happened to this
intervention that has had the ' outcome that we all know.
PRESIDENT - Excuse me a moment, but since ...
Q. - The specific facts.
PRESIDENT - ... are not unduly raised, we interrupt for ten minutes, please.
The AUDIENCE IS TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED
The HEARING RESUMES

PRESIDENT - I give the floor to the Public Ministry, please.

PROSECUTOR
PROSECUTOR
Q. - So, I asked, as his answer pressed for clarification on the term, by these acts, if you could specify
a little more dynamic, if there was, then this decision has led to this consensus, say . That is, there are
positions, (inaudible) more of less for what reasons?
ANSWER - There is no doubt in that context, I repeat once again, it is a bit 'conditioned by the
presence of various central directors. It is clear that in the face of aggression, it is clear that before the
investigations which have been made, and opposite, say the express wish of wanting to take action,
we begin by attackers, and then assaulted by the end, in fact, I remember well , Prefect of La Barbera
truly was convinced to do the surgery. I do not think that Andrew has spoken in that particular
circumstance and actually do not remember who said his colleague (inaudible), but there is almost a
form, my psychological conditioning that he understood that the intervention was well-liked, he knew
that the elements were to do the surgery and then he decided to intervene.
Q. - Look, what I want to understand is, we say this sort of conditioning, in short, because the
proposal was a line, say of action that she did not feel, say, to argue in that circumstance.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Wait, if my interpretation is correct. What is it conditioned it to him - in quotes - she explained, in
short, the situation we could find. The condition, say the opinion of the official who was his, despite
the different functions, higher, or some other official and conditioned for some other reason,
professionalism, experience or whatever. Here, I would like to understand the roots, say this ...
ANSWER - I want to correct. I repeat again that I was convinced I also do a search, not that I have
become conditioned or influenced by others to do the search. I too have joined the idea of doing the
search. It is clear, however, and I maintain that since the early days of the summit, the ... These days
it is clear that there was a form of conditioning by the directors who were central in the sense that
everything was shared, however, that if there was one thing ... I wanted to take a decision, just to
understand, and there was someone else who was a bit 'hand at this point was discussed and then
you can arrive at a solution, but in the specific context of the search I for one, and I take I was
convinced of having to take responsibility, since the investigations that were carried out were given a
certain result. Clearly, in that context, I imagine, too, that the attacked aspired to search, the ... and
others clearly wanted to present the search, then if other people have had doubts, because there was
a discussion of concerns in that circumstance.
Q. - But you, you yourself said that the greatest concern, the ...
ANSWER - (overlapping voices), but separately, in short, I look over the concerns, saying that in my
belief, and is going to my conviction, that the total discourse of all those present led to a search and
then I did not want contrappormi what might be ... even if I believed in doing the first search.
Q. - But, excuse me, I refer to the fact that Dr. Mottola was the head of the local DIGOS, so what was
the wrist, not only on the objective of logistics, but also, say the local situation, so if the head of Local
DIGOS makes this observation, we say that from the technical point of view it must be considered a
professional opposition, that is a puzzlement, as if to say, advanced in an authoritative, in other words.

RESPONSE - In that case went beyond the territoriality because Mottola might have knowledge of
any territorial groups say, but not on other groups who came from outside, in short, that is, I mean ...
so his opinion was far-sighted because, look at the Doctor say this, I also admit that Mottola has seen
longer than what I could see myself. He had a feeling, intuition, perhaps I could get colder in mind,
because I say it's all over now let's go home and do not let ...
Q. - I do not know if I'm sorry the petulance, say, but I do not know if she said, the problem is that
anyone who says something is a superior, that she feels in some way influenced the way ...
ANSWER - Dr. Mottola is one of my top.
Q. - Yes, I understand, but it is this element that she says "well, I can not go against" or is it ... are
other elements or other elements?
ANSWER - No, that, being one of my top, there was a Deputy Chief of Police, was a prefect La
Barbera, then (inaudible).
Q. - Here, however, his superiors, as if to say, are two, here there is a whole other set of ...
ANSWER - They are the ultimate ... the ultimate expression of the departments at the moment, there
are others.
Q. - So the question is ... the superior counted, she, more, what do you respond?
REPLY - But I say yes, in short, in that context, yes. He could also kick out all the room, in short, in
theory, right?
Q. - Okay, but ...
ANSWER - It says "I am an authority of public safety outputs all out, leave home."
Q. - As regards the other ... So, let's say above, I can tell, there was La Barbera and Andreassi, okay?

ANSWER - Absolutely.
Q. - The others were not his superiors.
ANSWER - The others do not, they were my colleagues.
Q. - Here, then, than these other people that she has found ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - With whom she has been discussing, what was his attitude and what ...
ANSWER - My attitude was given an attitude towards other people, when, for example, give an
example, if I remember correctly, Dr. (inaudible) has been appointed he or (inaudible) to make the
controls inside the red zone , before the Summit, to see how to set up the speech from the beginning,
I discussed with him because he did not agree with his ... his statement, then with other colleagues,
there is a relationship ... was discussed and then maybe ...
Q. - But, excuse me, I have done ... I would like you to explain, here, why not give a straight and not
believed to heed, to tell Mottola, who is the head of the local DIGOS, and perhaps gives more weight
to the opinion that they are other people who are not his direct higher. Do you think ...
ANSWER - I have not said that (inaudible).
Q. - No, I said, if the authority's opinion derives from the fact that the person who is expressing his
immediate superior, we said that this can only come from two people.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - What did not equate the position expressed by Dr. Mottola, with a technical qualification that may
be remembered, and the position expressed by others that she said "have not experienced ... indeed
pushing (inaudible). " Is this correct?

DEFENCE MR. Di Bugno

DEFENCE - Mr. Bugno - President, there is opposition, but the relevance of the question, yes
presidents, excuse me, I'm missing on the test, maybe it's my limit, I apologize, but there's opposition,
I do not take the importance .
PRESIDENT - Now, the lawyer has direct relevance to see the subjective positions of the individual
defendants in this process, as has been expressed, including his patients, Dr. Calderozzi and Dr.
(inaudible).
DEFENCE - Mr. Bugno - With my opposition, if one makes a specific question "what did Calderozzi
Gatteri what he did?
PRESIDENT - The witness can answer, please. He has ... This news ...
ANSWER - What?
PRESIDENT - At the request of the Public Ministry.
Q. - So, the opinion of Calderozzi, for example, weighs more than Mottola, has weighed?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Here, as we lived at that time?
ANSWER - I do not weighed. What I was weighed more, say the opinion, the opinion, the statement,
the look, say, the Prefects.
Q. - So, I can tell you that the expression "the Prefects have (inaudible)", look the same as saying
objection, "but the prefects, there were two" "feels pressure from those?" And She says, "but beware
that there was also a Calderozzi which is mine" and you say "but it is not one of his superiors", "yes,
but it is a contact point, I realized you look is a representative of the (inaudible) the Department
( unintelligible), it's not my top grade, but the maximum expression of the department (inaudible). At
that point, when a (inaudible), who are representatives of ministerial offices (inaudible) people who
are weighing, it is clear that referees have a certain respect, not the first officer arrived, that is when I
am involved, when I decided also (inaudible). " So, is exactly the opposite of what she says now.
DEFENCE - Mr. Bugno - President forgive me, but there's opposition, there is a contrast, he never
said he was pressured by these officials in what he has read the prosecutor, Mr. President, excuse
me.
PRESIDENT - In fact there are no contradictions, it is only a clarification that you ask, because ...
Prosecutor - No, President, the sense of challenge is this, on the other you know, the witness said
they weighed the upper, right? But his superiors were two, then we will take the position that
Andreassi, but the two were higher. As others have weighed? Then, he said, (overlapping voices) the
witness said, let me, do you explain all, but the examiner must explain. He said he was ... felt more
pressured by his superiors, I read the part where he said "but higher, there are also these, I'm not the
last to arrive," and are people who are less able to him, if there ' is a contradiction in what he said
does not know where the contradiction. (overlapping voices).
PRESIDENT - Motion dismissed, he wants to clarify this point.
ANSWER - (inaudible) Clearly the leader Dr. Dr. Calderozzi Gatteri, Dr. Wolf is part of the Dr. La
Barbera, the considerations that have been made on that occasion, these colleagues, capable of
superior or equal to or less than I can my , I have given up at some point, what I have in view in
particular has been the expression of the Prefect of La Barbera e. .. which is a prefect who is there
and at one point he was with ... I do not know him well received, say that he felt others were saying,
but my ... conditioning if you can talk, you can only speak for, say, the presence of the Prefect of La
Barbera, who has decided to do the surgery. (Overlapping voices) is not that they came, says no to
Calderozzi. Calderozzi who came with his enthusiasm, as informed by Dr. (inaudible) aggression that
has been Calderozzi at which point it is clear that (inaudible) a colleague who says "Look this has
been attacked we have to do anything" however, has not gone away, all the rest is up to me, in short
from ... I decided ...
Q. - You Calderozzi said that it was not (inaudible) that is (overlapping voices).
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) no doubt.
Q. - Look, in what she said, has now outlined, because it refers always to officials, however, are
expressions of the central bodies. Okay?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You mentioned the first, say, a little 'to his opposition to local authorities, in other words. He saw a
contrast between, you know, the local instance that for all she was, say Mottola and the instance
represented by higher-level, say, national?
ANSWER - (inaudible) I'm sorry, how?
Q. - That is a prevalence, behold, at that time of national representation, central to local.
ANSWER - There was definitely an influence than the national expression.
Q. - So you've heard of this instance a higher prevalence than the local one?
DEFENCE - Mr. Bugno - President's opposition, it requires an assessment, not a specific event.
PRESIDENT - I've heard, is not that ... that is what has ... (Overlapping voices).
ANSWER - There is a greater influence decision-making with regard to, say, the presence of the
national authority.
Q. - Look at the end, however, she said "we brought all the weight of this decision," she understood,
however the decision final vote was a unanimous vote.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - After, say, the moment decision, what course of action you choose, what other minds any
comparison there?
ANSWER - Well, after this decision to be taken, repeat intervention that arises in particular, beyond
the heat of the reaction of those who have been wronged, and explain the staff who had been
attacked, but that action was finally decided, d 'agreement with everyone and no one has put forward
the concerns out loud, and then it was decided the surgery, I was saying, particularly in those two
investigations that were made and clearly remember it was a certain time, late at night, I think around
10 and a half in the evening, I think, you decide to do the surgery and then had to organize.
Q. - The intervention, then search, right?
ANSWER - Search made, yes.
Q. - It was a little lost 'the purpose, the identification of six?
REPLY - But after the raid also identify with the people I believe.
Q. - Yes, no, but here it comes ... She first spoke about "the defenders (overlapping voices) reaction"
that is an operation that goes beyond ...
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) when the individual aims, the aggressors and the (inaudible) and to
find any weapons, this was it. He has good reason to believe that these weapons could have. Once
you've decided this had to search the sites. I personally, as it was late and it was not easy (inaudible)
Dr. Dormin phone or speak directly with him or talk with another officer, I do not remember, and I ask
the availability of some staff, because there was to do this action (inaudible) police. Dormin answer
me, I believe that the staff had finished dinner, except the staff of Rome, which was finishing, I do not
know ... So I ask the Prefect Andreassi, says "yes, okay", that staff is good and then give the okay ...
Q. - I mean in particular? In particular, what personal?
ANSWER - The staff of Rome, because different departments furniture had arrived here in Milan,
Genoa, different departments had focused mobile Turin, Naples, among them, among them Rome ...
Q. - And Rome ...
ANSWER - There were the people Singers of Doctor at the time they were finishing dinner, and Dr.
Andre 'yes, okay, the men are good, rather because they are specially trained. "
Q. - So the reference is to the group, department, commanded by Dr. Singers.
ANSWER - Singers, yes, now ... I say okay, yes ...
Q. - No, this fact is important (overlapping voices), she first spoke generically of departments ...
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) with Rome ... I say okay. Then I remember exactly the Prefect
Barbera requests the intervention of fire brigade intervention with a power generator including the
helicopter, then requires that ... states that personnel in plainclothes, Dr. (inaudible) should make the
first breakthrough, because then walked in front of my room where we have a meeting with the
operation, I shall attend this meeting, for a short time ...
Q. - Well, can remind those present of this second meeting?
ANSWER - Yes, there are present at this meeting the manager the DIGOS, I also believe the leader of
the squad, was called then, there are ... is the President, Dr. Caldarozzi, Dr. Gatteri, the Singers, the
Prefect of La Barbera and if I remember correctly there was also the Police. Then, as he states that ...

Q. - Is there anyone who has attended the first meeting that does not participate in the second?
ANSWER - Yes, (inaudible) Andreassi that has remained in my room, and the other I think everyone
who attended the second meeting allla. It is a speech ...
Q. - Why Dr. Andre does not participate in this second meeting, I said?
ANSWER - I was in front of the Deputy Chief of Police, do not ... I (inaudible) is not subordinate to me
that I was in a meeting, in short, in fact, I even I felt a little 'inadequate in that second meeting,
because it is a task of the Judicial Police, so much so that told La Barbera "you what are you doing
here? "" No, I have seen "that is, Barbera is not judicial police officer.
Q. - I understand, though (overlapping voices). the first meeting had been well decided on a judicial
act of the police.
ANSWER - Yes, of course, but then, in particular the ... Andreassi has remained in my room, I entered
the second room a moment to attend the meeting, where he established a certain formal procedures,
then I went on.
APPLICATION - Application is specific.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You know, apart from an inference that she did, which seems to me to do, "Andreassi not
participating."
ANSWER - I do not participate.
Q. - Why is the Deputy Chief of Police, and on operational details, it is perhaps not very suitable.
ANSWER - It is not that it is not very suitable, does not enter the merits.
Q. - Do not enter the merits, fine. There are things that you should not care. Do you know if the non-
participation in the meeting is due to other factors?
ANSWER - No, I do not know.
Q. - I do not know, or someone told him?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Very well, continue. Has to do only the names of participants, so there is Andreassi, then there
are ... There is (inaudible) La Barbera.
ANSWER - There's Singers, which we recommend great caution, after which you plan to create two
teams. I am concerned in particular to ensure the safety of personnel who went to work, in fact I called
the vicar who was then Deputy Quaestor Dr. ... name escapes me right now, and the last tasks
entrusted to him, wide-ranging to surround the area, along with the police, the carabinieri.
Q. - Here, in working arrangements, preparation of the abstract tasks, who should do what in the
operation planned?
ANSWER - Well, I, for what I heard, because then I say well I watched from entering into details, in
particular, knew that some officials had to act as guides DIGOS, both teams had to intervene, before
the Doctor had to intervene singing, and then intervened in search of these two teams in the squad of
DIGOS.
Q. - So, who should do the search materially, that is, who was in charge of the search ...
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) team DIGOS and mobile teams.
Q. - The DIGOS in particular. Instead, the parts of Dr. Singers in this story had specific tasks?
ANSWER - (inaudible) the task of, say, occupy the territory to avoid ... cancel any barriers that could
interpose, while the Police were in charge of preserving the long-range area.
Q. - Yes Look, she sent on the spot, as saying that one represented, though in some respect, or ...
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) I decided at the time, not in the first room to send Dr. Lapi, who
referencing (inaudible). If I did that and in another (inaudible) of that day had been seriously wounded
in the hand, so there was also Dr. Murgolo and Andreassi said to Dr. Murgolo "(inaudible)." Dr.
Murgolo Now who was it? It was actually a Vice Quaestor in charge, so (inaudible) Judicial Police in
Bologna, but in the context of Genoa was a judicial police officer. Dr. Murgolo, I remind you that Dr.
Andre made me put in my order. If you see my doctor ordered Murgolo was the person who was
alongside me during the G8 summit, so I felt that, just to get to question the chain of command, Dr.
Murgolo going on site, as there as an official appointed by the Vice Deputy Head, which also was the
one who had to assist me in my order throughout, say the summit. Going on site, and major
representatives of the DIGOS squad at this point I think there is a chain of command. As has been the
subject of much discussion, because then we must also understand how our interventions are made.
When there is a team with a non-commissioned officer or an official, that official is (inaudible) which is
responsible for his team. Therefore, it is the number one, say the chain of command can see
everything, or it can affect everything, he heads the various teams, so I think that the chain of
command was made up of the official who I have said before.
Q. - Here, she has opened up a bit 'on the chain of command, and then I ask some explanation. I had
originally only asked if he sends you, as a direct representative said. Here, I made it clear that the
beginning he wanted to send Dr. Lapi, but for an unwillingness, she identifies Dr. Murgolo ... someone
suggested it to him, Dr. Murgolo?
ANSWER - Yes, Dr. Andre.
Q. - So, what we say, however, his direct contact for issues, perhaps the most relevant public policy.
Correct this?
ANSWER - Public policy is the Commander Singers, really, in short, to public order outside the
Commander Singers.
Q. - (inaudible) tax, say of this delegate, Lapi that had to be (inaudible).
ANSWER - Lapi, because the Prefect Andreassi said "you want to send someone?", (Inaudible) Dr.
Lapi can go well, as the coordinator does not know how it can be determined. Because, Dr. Lapi, I
learned in that session that he had done wrong, then the prefect said to Dr. Andreassi Murgolo "you
feel? You go ", (inaudible).
Q. - I'm sorry, when she said "has been a little 'discussion, the chain of command, here, to understand
a little' to the Court, because she vaguely alludes to this thing, what is the object of discussion and
what do you mean by the chain of command? She says there are departments, each department
responds to their official, right?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Can you elaborate a little 'this concept, what it means, that the chain of command in what is
substantiated?
ANSWER - It is substantiated, the coordinator, in essence, because then I will be responsible for the
actions to take. It is a coordinator of all the various components are operating at that time. As there
were more components, DIGOS, mobile teams in some cities, DIGOS other cities, then the
coordinator must be an officer, who was to, say, pull a little 'sums.
Q. - But when you say, excuse me if I play bad, then I can also see any, ask if I clear ...
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) the chain of command, since it is a question I have smothered much
for more than six years, so I could not understand the chain of command, here is not that we are at
the level of chemistry, for which ...
Q. - So we say to the Court, we can say, you referred questions to controversy, catchphrases, or if you
will ...
ANSWER - Yes, its great catchphrases.
Q. - We can mention, here is the problem because she ... because it has not addressed directly,
because it did not name, identified a single coordinator of the transaction? That's the problem when
she said ...
REPLY - But this in our, yes our things in our facts, in our operations, when there is a Vice Quaestor is
the oldest of all grade-level, we speak of Officer of the Judicial Police, do not talk about others, we
have a Vice Quaestor who is sent by the Deputy Head with my consent, (inaudible), and at this point I
do not understand why this whole story is born of ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Excuse me (inaudible) you're talking about, because I have a little 'lost
even their names.
ANSWER - Dr. Murgolo.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Ah, thanks.
DEFENCE
Q. - The reread a sentence that perhaps his ... I do not know .. perhaps partly contrasts, then I ask: in
terms of (inaudible) that took into account the plurality of function (inaudible) each with (inaudible) and
had commanded the group leader of its membership, and this was referring to you are probably
saying "each group responded to his officials," I do not know if among them there was (inaudible) but I
can say that there was a significant presence in the acts of agents of the Italian Police. Then I can
draw my conclusions from these utterances that she does, can he explain, may explain the better?
ANSWER - I think I've made in my report (inaudible) who was sent Burgolo.
Q. - Yes, but I have noted, however, so I said a part where she talks about the command line and in
part says what you said, that is, the command line is that the hierarchical ... of (overlapping voices)
departments, and then this allusion to the presence of significant (inaudible) ago (overlapping voices)
no to a line of authority in fact or not? But the question is specific.
ANSWER - Because in that case there is an act of judicial police, who is signing the Act of the Judicial
Police is not Dr. La Barbera, but not Dr. Gratteri is Dr. "X" police officers, At that point, Dr. "X" police
officers could also tell the Prefect Barbera "I did not sign it or not this kidnapping" because it is an act
of which he answers personally.
Q. - Excuse me, the lesson I am on the Judicial Police (overlapping voices) Excuse me, have
patience. I want clarity on this point, then clearly it is this: what does it mean to say each of the men
responding to the officer in charge of its parent group, I can say, however, that (inaudible) a significant
number of senior executives of the Italian Police, which means ? Explain it. Why say that however one
may object that (inaudible) the signing him that he is responsible for ... (overlapping voices)
ANSWER - If the Prefect Barbera or any of these senior leaders decided at that moment "go back" at
this point everyone would come back, there's no doubt about this, but if the Prefect Barbera had
said .. . for heaven's sake do not mention the time (inaudible) because there is no more, but to be fair,
if the commissioner of Genoa had said to the official (inaudible). I do not want to go and explain
anything about what she already knows better than me, Mr. Judge, but in this term I mean ...
Q. - I want to help the Court to explain what this phrase means that the (inaudible).
DEFENCE -. (Inaudible) President forgive me, if you interrupt the witness ... is explaining, be patient
(inaudible) you can not stop the testimony.
PRESIDENT - But I think enough has explained this situation, I think we all understood.
DEFENCE -. But she understood Mr. President this specification that I have not understood in the
sense that the figures ... because he spoke of Dr. Murgolo, then the role of Dr. Mugello explain it. I
have not learned everything she knew of Dr. Mugello I honestly do not too much, so if we do, perhaps
better explain.
ANSWER - Well, usually when you do an operation of the Judicial Police, it always sends a manager
who must still, depending on the importance of the transaction, the complexity of coordinating, in that
specific sense, since the operation was complex, but not as complex activities of Police (inaudible) 41,
because there was present a multitude of specialized State Police, and mobile teams as you want,
and you want to protect the crime as a department, and would like ...
Q. - Well, then co-ordinate, I take it, all right. And how is coordinated with the other (overlapping
voices) officials.
ANSWER - I do not know about.
Q. - Because she said at the time "(inaudible) observer talks about (inaudible) responsibility
(inaudible) go on the spot here." To coordinate the service but I believe it is in place for Murgolo and
will be found near the Prefect La Barbera and you will find Dr. (inaudible).
ANSWER - Lawyer (inaudible) I have given a justification (overlapping voices) I maybe wrong in
speaking (overlapping voices) to coordinate the service, the Prefect of La Barbera could go there and
take a look (overlapping voices).
Q. - you put together these figures of leaders (inaudible) and that among them are ordered on a
hierarchical ...
ANSWER - It is not ... (Inaudible) in our administration, in that case there were, the first time that I
happened to find myself in my professional career in front of senior administration officials in the area
of the interior, in general it never happened. So with my statements I made in his presence was a bit
'inexperienced, a little' surface. The coordination of the Prefect of La Barbera means something else,
not a coordinating activity of the Judicial Police, could be ...
Q. - No, no, sorry, I read what I was referring to Murgolo, ie to coordinate the service that I was there
and you will find Murgolo (inaudible) the prefect of La Barbera you will find Dr. Gratteri: and then she
returns to this problem of hierarchy, the coordination between them.
DEFENSE Lawyer Corini - President forgive me but there is no challenge in that he has done this
(inaudible) or not I take myself, I do not think that there is a contradiction, if the Court authorizes the
challenge in that logic to me seems to take it, among other things there, said, "there will be" even then
expressed a hypothesis.
PRESIDENT - It seems to me that there are contradictions in particular, seems to me that has meant
so clear your head, if he wants to repeat, but I do not think there are disputes.
Q. - It is a challenge that brings out a detail that did not report that may clarify the concept, because
the question "of the hierarchical structure in place, counting and how?" You answer this question
because it seems to me that these answers, but My interpretation is that I do not know is correct,
answer to this question clearly, if you want to address it and clarify it still do it differently.
ANSWER - I do not ... since that is an activity of the Judicial Police do not know to what extent and
whether he could count the chain of command.
Q. - Do you plan an act of the Judicial Police in the mountain then? That is, this statement on judicial
police can not find it.
ANSWER - It is one thing you decide whether or not an act of the Judicial Police, but it is another
matter to perform an act of the Judicial Police, in that case there was an execution (overlapping
voices)
Q. - (overlapping voices) it was then to decide whether to stop people, you do things, that there is a lot
of things to decide.
ANSWER - I do not know I do not know why I was in the office (overlapping voices)
Q. - (overlapping voices) on the questions (inaudible) to know and understand what happened after,
not so for ... academic thesis.
ANSWER - Well, oh my God if a person should be arrested or less certain to me personally an officer
of the Judicial Police is not me can impose.
Q. - Then, subject to the specific acts and responsibilities of the Judicial Police in their execution and
then made according to the requirements of the law and then screened according to the procedures of
law, but on the spot, on the field, in the absence of which is designated by a her as the manager,
which operates the command line.

DEFENCE MR. CORINI

DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President's opposition, the question seriously, the question is absolutely
fascinating, because the witness said that there was a compliance officer appointed by him, here you
can not say "in the absence of further liability" .
DEFENCE - Not so, said he was not responsible (overlapping voices).
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President I felt bad I heard that she said that Dr. Murgolo was
responsible.
PRESIDENT - Well I think that Dr. Murgolo a time ...
DEFENCE -. Excuse me, Dr. Murgolo is responsible for the action, because no one has ever said on
the record here, (inaudible) if he says.
ANSWER - Dr. Murgolo when he was invited on the spot and sent by his boss Andrew with my
consent, not that he went as an observer, (inaudible) its function.
Q. - Very well, then she said "added" Did I objected, and, of course, "was the coordinator of the
service, however, will be found on the side, La Barbera and Grater", which means?
PROSECUTOR - but where is the contradiction Chairman, President'm sorry.
PRESIDENT - What does it mean we all know, we all understand, I do not think that there are
additional specifications, what do you mean, it was clear that the coordinator Dr. Murgolo, but being
present Prefect La Barbera, the Prefect did not know who was Andrea who were present, as if they
had some of the provisions Murgolo would do nothing but run them (overlapping voices) if they were
not the specific skills of the Judicial Police, however, perhaps we can understand all that, faced with
the demands of the Prefect of La Barbera Dr. Murgolo most likely would have conformed to the
demands ... that's what he meant.
REPLY - But I do not know.
Q. - Does not he know?
ANSWER - No, because I was in the office, I do not know off.
PRESIDENT - No, what has happened, but we're talking about what he meant when he said that
there was close to Dr. Murgolo anyway (overlapping voices).
ANSWER - The presence of the Prefect of La Barbera on site I was amazed myself (overlapping
voices).
Q. - But Barbera had taken place also ... by Dr. Craters also note that it was not prefect, which means
that so?
ANSWER - (inaudible) that I was surprised that the Prefect of La Barbera went on site, good or bad
because it is always a prefect, while I have wondered why there were Dr. Gratteri place of his men
who were working, not I know if I have explained.
Q. - Very well.
ANSWER - However, on the other hand I was in the office, then if I do not know. (Overlapping voices).

Q. - Of course I understand, but the emphasis does not come .. is not that we want to ... you said "we
have long discussed on this" but then, not only in courts of law or judicial, because it was an issue of
the parliamentary committee, this is correct?
ANSWER - Yes yes yes.
Q. - So it is not that the claims that are made now, of course could prepare a little 'more maybe ...
there's always a problem here. Look, let's say you decide when the intervention in this second
(inaudible) will determine the operational mode, recalls how Especially now, very briefly that you
suggest?
REPLY - But I (inaudible) and the Prefect La Barbera and I have suggested to many lines going in a
very soft, Gratteri had spoken of tear gas, (inaudible) try to make a presentation look very peaceful,
serene, peace of mind in men On the other hand those were our provisions we had given on the first
day of the summit, very soft interventions very quiet, do not say exasperated.
Q. - Look after this suggestion in relation to Dr. Murgolo and then having participated in the second
working meeting, the Prefect Andreassi, suggests something, means something?
ANSWER - Well, if I remember correctly, the Prefect Andreassi says "inform the chief of police", so I
called the chief of police, chief of police that was ... we say that was in direct contact with others in my
opinion the top ministerial and say with me on that occasion, so it was appropriate to also inform the
chief of police, this is a suggestion that gave me Andreassi, but not enough for the job per se,
because then we have had so many raids of us in Genoa, the Pugs, atro short in some places; what is
so special that we had suffered aggression and consistency of staff who were engaged in short. So
much so that I called the chief of police and ask for confirmation ...
Q. - I'm sorry she confirms that he called at the suggestion
ANSWER - Yes yes yes. More than suggestion, Doctor sees them there was a ...
Q. - So doctor, "at the suggestion of my own Andreassi telephoned the Chief of Police" is a thing you
say on the record and states on page 43 of transcripts haute said (inaudible). Terms are not attractive
or put in the mouth by her, she said, "at the suggestion of". She is called to specify.
DEFENCE -. President may ask the prosecutor to the witness because they do not stop.
ANSWER - I wanted to clarify that no doctor ... the suggestion is correct, because (inaudible) at the
time, but I also wanted to point out that many times, things that are ... maybe I'd do it myself on my
own if I had suggested him, but in time it tells you that you do what you do that other ... that is, I mean,
not that one ...
Q. - I understood, but it is a historical fact?
ANSWER - Yes it is a historical fact, I'm trying to clarify for a moment (inaudible)
Q. - Okay, but does not have to justify itself, should report what happened, if ... Early suggestions on
how to say ...
REPLY - But I want to clarify that it is not extraordinary, because maybe I'd do it too, because they
typically those that are in that room each have a suggestion, go do this other one ... ie, it was
consequential.
Q. - At the time, they said, "so insidious was the question that took up what she had said." She says
that "suggestion", so do not complain about that.
REPLY - But I was trying to clarify.
Q. - I understood, but can not do, must specify that happened, then.
ANSWER - I called the police chief and told him that ...
Q. - But the suggestion was accompanied or not by ... whether or not the reason, because she said
"is normal" ...
ANSWER - This is my ...
Q. - Very well, (inaudible) inside and what she (inaudible) but because an external agent, ie, the
Prefect Andreassi suggests, the external representation of that agent, the extern is something?
ANSWER - I stick to the question precisely, Andreassi said to me, I said "make a phone call to the
leader, inform the Chief of Police."
Q. - Very well, on what terms?
REPLY - And I said that our staff was (inaudible) very very rough, because it was a continuous ebb
and flow of phone calls, we had been attacked and that we would have done a search of a school, I
forget what I said exactly, not memory.
Q. - (inaudible) done.
ANSWER - What we did, we were getting ready, we were getting ready to do a search of this
institution and also wondered about this ... I sent the public as Dr. ... Dr. ... the vicar, who's name
escapes me, a moment of amnesia, Dr. Calepini with the Police, as I had the availability of the
Carabinieri who also (inaudible). I spoke in exactly these terms, we would do a search perchèp our
staff had been attacked and that I used the Police to make an outside service.
Q. - So says the background, the reason (overlapping voices).
ANSWER - The reason (inaudible) the mention of the mention ... of an aggression that had been us.
Q. - The Chief of Police to participate in the nature of that goal, the purpose of this operation.
ANSWER - It is that the call was very dry, very simple, do a search ... the boss knew ... clearly this is
my assumption that the room was "A, B and C" so it was a sharing there had been, (inaudible) later, I
remember now.
APPLICATION - The purpose of explaining it to him, what is?
ANSWER - The aim was to attack us and we had been we would have done this to stop searching if
any.
Q. - What is the answer, what is the information where applicable.
ANSWER - I can not remember exactly, but clearly a police chief has said "I urge caution," do not
know what ... I do not remember exactly what ... because I believe the chief of police who had a direct
conversation with senior ministerial Referrals well with me so ... surely he will have made other phone
calls, or on its own initiative or has received other calls ... My guess this is always a Doctor eh, from
the high summits of the department.
Q. - Okay.
PROSECUTOR - Formally, the commissioner must inform you, formally, and he has adhered to
(inaudible).
Q. - Okay. Listen, then contact someone, he was contacted by someone, after this call with the Chief
of Police, (inaudible) there is this communication.
ANSWER - (overlapping voices) I informed the mayor of Genoa, I will also be informed, I believe the
Prefect of Genoa clearly now ...
Q. - The police chief gave some other indication, then a few more tips?
ANSWER - I do not remember anyway I informed the Prefect of Genoa, inquired if I am the mayor of
Genoa, informed perhaps our spokespersons, the communications officer, Sgalla then inquired who
else ... enough.
Q. - Why did the spokesman informed ... (Inaudible)
ANSWER - Why is our spokesman Sgalla is our communications officer.
Q. - It was his initiative?
ANSWER - How?
Q. - It was his initiative?
REPLY - And well, I think so. Yes perhaps there is exactly in my report, reflecting good because then I
informed Sgalla, because being a Sgalla working with our communications, clearly the face of such an
event at night, clearly some journalists that he knew something and would call Sgalla Sgalla had to
know what to say in short ... Sgalla then I said I look at that going to do this act of the Judicial Police,
and I said maybe, I do not remember, why we just went. (overlapping voices) I may have done a bit 'of
confusion ...
Q. - Yes, but is not a confusion, because the question in the other said "the chief of police responded
to another" (inaudible) said "the time is fierce memories to fade away", she said in her Previous
record: "he" that is, the police chief "soon after I called and told me to warn Dr. Sgalla".
ANSWER - I correct myself, I want to say this, I might have been imprecise. The Chief of Police of
course I drew him to commend the utmost caution, he might ... I have asked ... I honestly do not
remember, and I told him I have also informed Sgalla, perhaps that is because I told the chief of police
who had been informed of this search.
Q. - Look, here she is not reporting a simple content of a conversation, she says she has informed the
Chief of Police, have you said that you were told, period. She on record in October 2001 says: "He
called me shortly after telling me to feel well", that is, not that it is a (inaudible) the content, because it
is a memory in October 2001 of a special phone call to say this next, that is, now you like, tell me that
(inaudible) I thought I acknowledge, but the fact does not seem shocking, however, if you feel the
need to ...
ANSWER - No, I said.
Q. - Tell the Court is here with legal obligations.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President forgive me, there is opposition. He made the challenge, we
are not opposed (inaudible), responded to the challenge, I do not know what you can ... you can not
tell the Court the legal obligations, there are phone records, has clearly said no?
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - What President phone records, if it appears that there is any call made,
before asking the President to show up warn the cell phone records and from here is that what he
says in order to call the witness is not true .
PROSECUTOR - A request to admonish the President is quite irritale, at most, because I warn you,
no one pushes me to do so, this is the first point, then we can go on quietly, please.
Q. - I believe that the contradiction was rather obvious, so I said take the witness stand on this, that I
said ... (overlapping voices)
PROSECUTOR - The witness has answered this and said "there's probably been (inaudible)."
ANSWER - I probably was my confusion, because since there was a bustle of phone calls, it is clear
that I am now in the cold, there was no other hand that the head ... I had a duty to notify an institution
that went beyond the standard one night ... is one of our employee communications, (inaudible) even
Sgalla, because I think it is more logical this information (inaudible) Sgalla.

Q. - No, no, sorry, Dr. Sgalla depended on her?

ANSWER - No.
Q. - You had direct (inaudible) Dr. Sgalla?
ANSWER - No, (inaudible) there is no form of addiction, he was the guy to our communications.
Q. - I said if Dr. Sgalla depended on her.
ANSWER - No.
Q. - You could ask your own Dr. Sgalla?
ANSWER - I'm sorry?
Q. - He could ask the Dr. Sgalla something, depended on her or not Dr. Sgalla?
ANSWER - No, not me Doctor Sgalla.
Q. - So it could be more logical that the police chief to ask this.
ANSWER - It is not true, because when (inaudible) Sgalla, it is not up to me, that ... ie, Dr. Sgalla was
there to talk to the press and our staff (inaudible) of external communications, when I go for an
intervention of (inaudible) time, and as the press secretary could be found the possible calls that can
arrive, I ... Dr. Sgalla was informed. The fact that I have made a declaration, I say this with great
modesty, it may be that (overlapping voices)
Q. - (inaudible) there is a process of memories rather than say ... there is a product rather than the
final alchemical shocking, all right ... agreement is good, I have noted, we said it all. Because
compared to his first statements, she went on.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - Excuse me, as she said to Dr. Sgalla, and she resumed (overlapping
voices) "here I have informed the chief of police to go and do this to inform intervention and said, I do
not know" were asked she was asked why (inaudible) ministry. "I do not know, because Sgalla is the
spokesman, I think it's the office manager (inaudible) the head-to-print for a good deal if the thing, that
is (inaudible) Dr. Zucca had other things on his mind, not rubbed, and all of Sgalla the rest (inaudible)
I thought to my goal, (inaudible) look inside of me at that moment I'm not thinking about why he came
sgalla (overlapping voices).
DEFENCE -. Excuse me but where is the contradiction President? That is, you do not know the
contradiction forgive me Mr. President, responded to the witness four times (overlapping voices).
(VOICE OFF MICROPHONE) - She has acknowledged the respondents President, and continues to
ask questions on the same thing.
Q. - (inaudible) Dr. Bugno a Lawyer? No?
PRESIDENT - We want to do it ... We understand that there is this contradiction, then (overlapping
voices)
Q. - (overlapping voices) even more specific Doctor, so the memory seems to me, with this
specification ...
ANSWER - subnet, I'm saying this, in essence, I inquired Sgalla.
Q. - There is a vivid scene that she describes?
ANSWER - I have informed Dr. Sgalla on searches and on interventions that were (inaudible), was a
result of phone calls between ... I called the Chief of Police, I called Dr. Sgalla, I called the prefect, the
mayor of Genoa, and clearly in these contexts of phone calls I can remember correctly, it may be that
the chief of police has asked me "Who did you inform "? I said I Sgalla also informed, that is not
exactly remember the details, those statements made in that context ...
Q. - Well, but remember, fresh, new and more recent than even time next to the fact that in October
2001, has now matured into this courtroom for the hearing?
ANSWER - No, I have already matured in his time because then slowly I made a (inaudible) of all
things ...
Q. - In time then after the second reiterated his version in 2002?
ANSWER - The second took place after I ...
Q. - In 2002, 16 December 2002. She was then heard in October 2001 and December 16, 2002
where he tells more ... so ... in general the removal process is different. October 2001 is the first
report in December 2002 and is the second.
ANSWER - I repeat that I was (inaudible) a series of phone calls that I remember now ...
Q. - Today?
ANSWER - Today, today, in short memory in this way here.
Q. - But today it occurred to this ...
RESPONSE - Not today (inaudible).
Q. - When?
ANSWER - It is a long time ago that ...
Q. - When? May I ask when? He spoke with someone I do not know, Sgalla with Dr. (inaudible)?
ANSWER - I do not know, I've made one phone call to Sgalla.
Q. - (inaudible) the memory comes to mind now, can I ask?
ANSWER - It's not that I can think of now, I think that (inaudible) there is a lot of confusion in those
days at that time, with phones, a cool head I think that there is no reason why I informed All of that
address, I informed myself of my own ...
Q. - But I'm allowed to tell her but comes to mind today? She said "now is not long." I can tell by the
time?
REPLY - And I do not know.
Q. - That is, after the minutes.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President's opposition to this type of question, asking questions about
specific facts trial, he said, has made a complaint, proved to be a contradiction, he said, he insisted, it
goes on, not you can count how long, how ... There is opposition to this type of question the
President.
(VOICE OFF MICROPHONE) - There is also a junta if I may.
(Overlapping voices).

DEFENCE MR. ROMANELLI

DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - He was questioning what he had said Dr. Colucci on page 49, then the
prosecutor has stopped, that would be correct also read the next lines of the dispute, trying to
understand the time in which those issues, Dr. Colucci statements, and then maybe if it were pressed
in a tone less violent, perhaps it would be even more correct.
PRESIDENT - In the meantime I ask the public prosecutor as we do not know if he considers the acts
actually so important to know whether it was the police chief to ask Dr. Sgallo to inform, even if the
Quaestor Colucci has decided to hear the Sgallo. Here, if it considers it so important for his purposes,
here, can go forward; otherwise please proceed further, because I do not think one of the ....
PROSECUTOR - I think it's important to establish whether a witness before a court, tell the truth or
not.
DEFENCE -. President, no, no, it is unacceptable.
(Inaudible)
PRESIDENT - The Lawyers speak when they when they can speak. I'm talking about, please do not
stop. Then, the witness is clear, we must determine whether telling the truth. (Inaudible) because it is
a witness of the prosecution, the defense is the responsibility of asking questions to see whether the
witness is telling the truth. The prosecution may simply ask you to prove the facts.
DEFENCE -. The President asked me a question and I answered.
PRESIDENT - If this is so important we can proceed, if it is not so important for the purposes of the
prosecution can go forward, that's what I said.
PROSECUTOR - Yes, yes, but ... I understand it, the premise was a (inaudible). Since it is always
important to determine whether a witness is telling the truth, for prosecution in respect of course. The
knowledge that (inaudible) in the final moment. That is, we explored the e. ..
DEFENCE -. Excuse me, can the President? Excuse me, I ...
PROSECUTOR - Okay, okay.
DEFENCE -. Excuse me Doctor, I am defending, is not here because ... I am, I (inaudible) I swear
before God and the Italian law, I tell the truth. I just want to say something else. I actually have
(inaudible), I took the heat, the events that had occurred just before, a confusion of phone calls, and
so on. Clearly the Doctor SGAR him, I warned them about me, on my own, I warned him, as I warned
the other local authorities, however, this does not preclude the Chief of Police, sorry, that does not
mean that the same head of Police at the appropriate time I have said, "you warn the Prefect? And
what does the mayor? The Doctor Sgallo did you tell him? "I can say this. The rest then ... the truth is
this. My truth is this. If I then made a statement and pressing decided that day when I made the
statement, then I was wrong. Evidently I did not noticed, because I'm not used to be ... go to the
courts.
PROSECUTOR - Look at her is justified, it should not. But, perhaps by trade, I just pointed out,
repeatedly, as she did in the minutes, after some time it is invoked on the point, what was then
confirmed its truth, is that today forms. Enough, we said. For me it's over, we can move forward.
DEFENCE -. Excuse me a moment, Mr. Prosecutor. Another thing, I never said that, in my record that
I informed the mayor and the prefect, perhaps, perhaps. In this context, in this hall.
PROSECUTOR - (inaudible) said.
DEFENCE -. And I do not remember ...
(Inaudible)
PROSECUTOR
Q. - after you, say, all these preliminary remarks, let's say, after the operative provisions also dates,
notes something else? That is, see who goes on the field? He has knowledge of who?
ANSWER - I'm going down, but even I go ... I see in front of the police and the crews start. I see Dr.
Calepini, leaving the Police. I see the Doctor Labbardera Prefect.
Q. - (inaudible). Are you sure?
ANSWER - I can see from the Carabinieri, I think.
Q. - Are you sure?
RESPONSE - Not exactly. So I go in front of the police station and see the crews start.
Q. - Carrasini Doctor said? Is it safe?
ANSWER - Carrasini.
Q. - Are you sure of that?
ANSWER - Well, I do not remember. Carrasini went there, maybe not.
Q. - I'll tell you why ...
ANSWER - Perhaps I have not seen, I do not remember, however, he and the crew leaving. And from
what I remember, I saw the Prefect Rabbarbera that was going too. And I told him: "where do you go?
And I'm on the spot ", enough.
Q. - That said, that was a source of wonder for you?
ANSWER - Well yes, for me it was a source of wonder. But, for heaven's sake, is not that ... yes, it
was a source of wonder. That is, I made my account ...
Q. - I'll voiced?
ANSWER - I've externalized.
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - I go there on the spot. I have externalized.
Q. - He was told something? I do not know? It is a question.
(Inaudible)
Q. - It seems to me a way, but if you (inaudible). So the question is simple, if you do not remember
more than we spend. Told us whether, if he has seen the departures, who was there, so if you have
had to share something with, period. Yes, it is very difficult to make a ... examination in these
circumstances that are not usual in the courtrooms of Genoa, I have to say this. I have 22 years of
of ... honorable profession. You're welcome. Remember something about, again?
ANSWER - No, (inaudible) I can confirm it or not.
Q. - Okay. See these departures and it does?
REPLY - And I'll be back in the office.
Q. - Very well. And what happens?
REPLY - And I give while I'm in my office, after a while 'time ... I'm in my office with Andreazzi
Architect, I do not know who else, I forget. Then comes a ... phone calls followed each other, and a
call comes in and tells me that, practically, there was resistance. Then came another call, do not
remember how many calls come: if one or two, three or five phone calls. At one point, a call comes in,
where I is said to have been found in place of petrol bombs, in short, two Molotov cocktails.
Q. - Do you remember those who made these calls?
(Inaudible)
ANSWER - I had understood. Then, there is, this is an example of my thoughts. I said when I
questioned the five people who could call. So do not remember who had the phone call, so none of
the five. Reflecting then on, the, I do not think that the, the, the singing of the situation calls for me. I
do not think Luperi call me, maybe because Luperi Barbera telephoned to say. I believe that it is
easier to dissolve the reserve referred to interrogation, it was ....
Q. - (inaudible) in court, because no one has jobs. That is, my question now was: Who made you
remember in particular the call that reported that they had (inaudible) the molotov? And she has
added references to a report, that the record does not know. His answer today is: you remember or
not?
ANSWER - I do not remember exactly, could be, I reduce its staff, or the many great Doctor or Doctor
dominace. May have been many great Doctor himself, maybe.
Q. - Well, that is ... (Inaudible) but for completeness, you see. Who told you: "I do not remember
watching, it might be him, but I do not remember exactly. But remember that the said (inaudible)
Andreasso, which Andreasso, Andreasso friend who (inaudible) Thank goodness they found
something.
RESPONSE - In fact, there are five people, I also said in the report, five people could call me: Mortola
...
Q. - Mo, this is not ... I remember.
RESPONSE - Five people.
Q. - (inaudible). The voice is recorded. The recorded voice is not that ...
ANSWER - Yes, I understand. It's not that I could call the center of Orvieto Furniture Team ...
Q. - So, the confirmation can not remember? By inference today?
ANSWER - Today, by inference, I can say it was the Doctor Mortola, may have been he who informed
me of this discovery. Clearly, I asked ... I asked the other party's details.
Q. - What did the things that ... He did reach this conclusion?
ANSWER - Why, why, because my contacts were generally those references Police Headquarters.
Q. - The fact that he said (inaudible) we do not have tabulanti?
ANSWER - No, I do not know.
(Inaudible)
DEFENCE -. You can not do this type of question. This is a question that clearly generates a metrus
weigh a witness. You can not ask for the very fact that we have the printouts, provided that they have
the printouts, it also expresses a fact that is not true, Mr. President, forgive me.
PRESIDENT - Let's go.
Q. - Now in his time he will.
ANSWER - Doctor Zucca, the ... logical consequence, the Doctor Lupari if it finds something wrong,
report it immediately to its Managing Director, who is the Doctor Barbera.
Q. - (inaudible)
ANSWER - Well, then obviously I've been able to last. That is, I mean, to me ...
Q. - But look, (inaudible) for charity, but it is not the fact that I care a lot. But, she said that in his
report, the first phone call, now the point I can find, before the operation came from the (inaudible) it
was reported that one of Molotov cocktails, he said this.
ANSWER - Absolutely.
Q. - When asked who told, because it is enough interest, she said, as I challenged. If today, as it
were, a little 'surprise says: "I do not remember, but it could be," I asked her a moment to give the
gods, gods of grips, tools, because we can see this degree of validity of his deduction , only this. But I
assure you, is not that of narrow self-interest of the prosecution.
ANSWER - I remember perfectly well that the Doctor Luperi called me several times to request the
dispatch of which were to, say, transporting the detainees to the police station, this memory. So the
(inaudible) attack on my specific call of Molotov cocktails, can not remember exactly. It may have
been Luperi, could have been many great. Perhaps easier many great, I have no idea, in short, do not
remember.
Q. - Okay.
ANSWER - I know I said so directly with Andrew, who was present. Who called me for the bombs, I
gather myself, that I asked for something more. Asked him: "(inaudible) has happened, where you can
find." I do not remember ...
Q. - Oh, this interesting.
ANSWER - Sure, but I do not remember it ... this is something (inaudible), not enough to say ...
Q. - But if something would be interesting arguisse here.
ANSWER - If ... in my business if my partner says: "I found the case", I (inaudible) "was closed? It
was open? ". So clearly I have said something more, I said, "how was the surgery?".
Q. - So, here then, do you think the telephone ... deducing and inferring, during that phone call she
asked about: how, when and where.
ANSWER - If the phone calls were ... could be that there is also one of my depth. But the important
thing to me it was the time: they were entered, and found that I had clearly not only the Molotov
cocktails, you will be stopped, but (inaudible) even weapons. (Inaudible) I do not remember: clubs,
flails. So ...
Q. - So the point A. The question was: make calls, it receives information, it says that it gets enough.
In the minutes that I objected saying: "The first call is that of Molotov cocktails, we have explored. And
only arguing something, "she says," I have asked specifically about the place of occurrence
(inaudible). " I mean, remember now or not? Now remember that specifications?
ANSWER - No, I do not remember.
Q. - Okay, good. Other phone calls, I would like to know if you receive, in what terms that represent
the situation that you are creating in?
ANSWER - The Doctor Lupari, who made several phone calls, I do not know if other officials, urging
them to send, say, means.
Q. - What kind of media?
ANSWER - Means to bring the detainees to the police station, because there was some external
pressure, external pressure, for ... by other protesters.
Q. - Look, someone comes to injuries?
ANSWER - It definitely, definitely.
Q. - It's a bit 'unsettling that his irritation. (Inaudible).
REPLY - And no doubt (inaudible), excuse me. I asked when I said that I have, I will definitely ask for,
for my professional culture, how was the intervention. And of course they said: "There has been some
resistance."
Q. - And how is represented? That is, the number, consistency, is represented in what way?
REPLY - And no, there was a reaction ...
Q. - No, no, no, I'm talking about injuries. (Inaudible) and the wounded man, all right, though injured.
That is the size, texture ...
ANSWER - No, no, no, I have studied the problem.
Q. - But what has been said, that is?
ANSWER - I have been told that there were wounded, so that there was ...
Q. - How many? How? Which ...
ANSWER - No, no, I was told this. I only know that there are wounded and we proceeded, eventually,
to bring to the hospital, in other words. It's not that I explored in that place at that time, say, the
situation.
Q. - At that moment she puts it (inaudible)?
ANSWER - It must have been one in the morning, two in the morning, I do not know. In fact, late at
night.
Q. - And is not represented: the number, the higher the consistency, the wounded?
ANSWER - (inaudible) after it was done after, even, I think, the (inaudible).
Q. - I request it, I ask to know the level of information, but in that time she said: "the one, two," also
operated television stations. So, that is not operating only operators. So I ask if the person was
represented by a Police requirement, un'emerga in this (inaudible)?
ANSWER - The emergency was represented ...
Q. - Of the stop?
ANSWER - Only for the detainees.
Q. - For the detainees. Listen ... She e. ..
REPLY - And clearly, I think, clearly, do not want that, I can not exclude.
Q. - Why telephoned her on the problem of the stop, the, the, media.
ANSWER - No, because again, when, because I could not have: the men of means, to be sent there.
Q. - And he ordered?
ANSWER - I definitely ordered.
Q. - Look ...
REPLY - But attention, I think he also ordered the deployment of some ambulance, because the
request was made.
Q. - I mean, so she ordered the dispatch of ambulances?
ANSWER - I think so. At the same time, when there are such situation, (inaudible) through the
operations center, you put in motion a mechanism.
QUESTION - Listen, are you for the question of the means of ... Unless referred to the Doctor?
ANSWER - It is possible, because all ... I could see at all, in other words. Unless you have probably
instructed to find the means. Also, also, we have also put the paperweight on, on, on the machines, I
think, and protection of the crime department, two things together, I forget words.
Q. - Look she met the Doctor Trojans?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - He knew, he felt it was with some means to Diaz?
ANSWER - No, because I knew only the vertices, we say.
Q. - The Doctor Subject to the reported contacts with the Doctor, Doctor Trojans with their own, for
this problem of finding the means?
ANSWER - I do not remember this. I only remember that the media ... of strong pressure from Luperi.
Then, if at the same time is also saved in my office ...
Q. - What the Doctor told her Luperi of media? That served to?
ANSWER - It served immediately, since there was some alarm that does not, of, to send immediately
the means to take away those arrested.
Q. - So he spoke of those arrested at that time?
ANSWER - O stop, stop. More accurate to say stop.
Q. - That the actions of free personal freedom?
ANSWER - Well, the detainees in general, is accompanied in the office, then I know not, I repeat. I
had the communication, this, by the Doctor Luperi, there were several stops, stops that no longer
have the (inaudible) freedom that can not leave, that there is an external pressure, from other
demonstrators and then why they sent Calesine; had to leave as soon as that goal.
Q. - Okay.
ANSWER - To do this they needed transportation.
Q. - Okay. Feel you have been reported in this communication by telephone, in the first few updates,
some other particular episode, severe, possibly taken place within the school, he first mentioned
resistances, things?
ANSWER - No, I was then an episode that, I learned the next day maybe, I forget. Of ... that a team
had the wrong goal and went in front of the school, where there was a center of data processing.
Q. - Doctor, Doctor, what are you saying? He wants to be more clear?
ANSWER - I am saying that I learned.
Q. - This has understood my question? However, the response I want to hear it a lot.
ANSWER - It asks if I heard that some team had?
Q. - No, I asked if I remember any episode or something quite serious that he was speaking?
ANSWER - So (inaudible) I understand what it is.
(Inaudible).
Q. - This other circumstances.
ANSWER - Now I remember perfectly. An Agent's ours, our one person, I saw him, I have below when
I came to the police station, which was, had been attacked inside the Diaz school and say that he had
received a stab wound that had ruined jacket; him with a move in karate, in a move fast enough, he
could from this jack, but failed to capture the person who had, had wounded him. Wounded, in short,
had pierced the vest.
Q. - Do you feel this story by whom?
ANSWER - I can feel it by the person that came to my office, I remember, and let me see (inaudible),
say, the gash.
Q. - He was alone?
ANSWER - Well, it came with some other official, can not remember.
Q. - No, she said Dr. Singers.
ANSWER - Indeed Dr. Singers, I do not remember, of course, I have no reason ...
Q. - So what?
ANSWER - So ...
QUESTION - Can not you see? That is, it shows the jacket?
ANSWER - I did see the jacket that he wore still, no, I do not remember what the exact circumstances
and saw that there was this hole in the jacket.
Q. - What did you see? Remember?
ANSWER - Yes, I saw a tear.
Q. - What were you wearing this Agent?
ANSWER - How?
Q. - What were you wearing this Agent? He was still wearing the vest?
ANSWER - wore, wearing, wore, a sort of our summer jacket, a kind of cotton, cotton sweater, I
forget.
Q. - Let's go about the Doctor. Now, no, I do not want to do an examination on dress ...
REPLY - Of course, perhaps, did not wear, I do not remember honestly Doctor. (Inaudible)
Q. - You said, however, is a key thing, he heard the story of this person, this guy, right?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - What a move in karate, in short it was ...
ANSWER - I mean he managed to free herself from this socket.
Q. - Let's go with order then. The showed the jacket, as I understand it, wore it again.
ANSWER - I do not remember, but I saw the hole, (inaudible).
Q. - The hole where I saw?
ANSWER - Here, well ...
Q. - But above that article?
ANSWER - On a sweater, a, a, a jacket that had them, the uniform of the department.
Q. - Do not remember if he saw a bear and a jacket he was wearing? I mean, sure if she wore it, was
not wearing?
(Inaudible)
ANSWER - I do not know if he was still wearing, or if it is raised for me to see better. I remember I was
impressed that hole. Yeah him, I think that this statement has already been already done previously.
Q. - In fact (inaudible).
ANSWER - Doctor should know that I had three days under maximum pressure.
(Inaudible)
Q. - No, no, no, let's go ...
ANSWER - (inaudible) I can pay attention to certain details, but I see a tear and I will not see if he is, I
do not remember at this time. For me the important thing is the gash.
Q. - So, I take the point a little more specific of his story, page 64: "at this time I remember seeing the
Agent, red-faced, with this jacket. I think I saw him, there was this slabbratura, so this gap. "
ANSWER - It was him.
Q. - But you saw the bodice.
PRESIDENT - Excuse me, excuse me. This dispute as to the vest, if the prosecutor wants to do it
right, because it is all the day making of entrepreneurs and leading questions as he wishes. It is well
to begin to challenge the beginning, of what the first response is that Dr. Colucci. No response to the
fourth page, because the first response of the Doctor Colucci said: "No, not wearing a jacket. I
showed it to me and to present, say tear. " After pressing in four pages, the Court can imagine, seeing
the attitude of the prosecutor in court, what happens in his office and manages the end to make him
say that he was wearing.
PROSECUTOR - The President controls (inaudible) of the Code, fairness and contestation.
CHAIRMAN - What is the (inaudible) correct, right, check. Yes, yes, we have no problem if, with
regard to (unintelligible) the part of the vest there is no problem. Page 61, first question.
(Inaudible)
PRESIDENT - Page 61. What she wore. No lawyer is still, am I doing a challenge. He made
opposition, so let's see if the Court of the allegations she makes are correct or not.
DEFENCE -. Mr. President has seen some 'roll and spring. I challenged a sentence that seemed more
specific.
CHAIRMAN - There are large contractions, because today I do not remember and it seems that you
do not remember ...
PROSECUTOR - Just (inaudible) there was a phrase I note that I have very specific and stress.
Certainly not with those purposes which have attributed the defense lawyers.
Q. - and remembers them now, however, with respect, let the jacket we had not got him. Like it was
explained, say, the event that no, the event that the aggressor here, although she freed herself with
this move had not been taken in karate?
ANSWER - No, yes, I'm not wrong, again six years have passed, I remember that came up with this
person, attacked by me. I think the fact has even happened in the hallway, not even in my room, I can
not remember. There was also Dr. Cantarini not be ruled out, it may well be, indeed has a reason,
because he is with his manager, who is Dr. Cantarini, it is right, this could be right, he told me he had
received cutting, the sweater. If I remember correctly, they are more inclined to believe, are more
inclined to remember that we had the sweater in his hand and not on him.
Q. - No, no, I did not want, we have already overcome the problem of the sweater and jacket. The
question is another, the question is ... but do not worry.
ANSWER - When I recounted the episode, he was climbing on the second floor of the institute, was
dark, at one point was caught behind by someone, that has (inaudible) this, in that he free herself of
course, was given this knife that, cha ripped the sweater and he has freed herself perpetrator
escaped. It was dark and he could not take it.
Q. - Look, she told me she did not have a direct representation, information on the consistency of the
number of casualties, but in that time slot, but has heard of stopped or arrested, say, in effect,
(inaudible) in the sense technically, we say? Okay? This confirms to me?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So much so that it requires the means of transport. When she is informed, however, that it is
stopped, a large number of arrests.
ANSWER - I was then informed that all those who accompanied him, or a significant number,
however, had been arrested. Then 90, 90, 93 people. I repeat ...
Q. - Did you have to say, that is ...
ANSWER - That was a task of the Judicial Police, I believe, and so I'm more interested than arresting
and if arrested. The result was that in the end, practically, had brought a number X in the hospital,
there were many wounded, and I think (inaudible) about that because ...
Q. - (inaudible) the circumstances that I want to (inaudible) that will be insignificant, but thorough. It is
though, since she has these phone calls from people on the ground and she is there to the police
station, which receives information? we have explored the issue of Molotov cocktails, we went to the
vest, but you learn directly at police headquarters. So then I went back to the problem reported, she
stressed, did not have a great information on this. I asked, then, on the basis of a previous response, I
feel stopped in atecnico arrested, here. She received that information from people who are there?
That is, when ... eh ... so ... consistency, the number of arrest, or if you had ...
ANSWER - I heard about those ... the number of those arrested later.
Q. - So, let's see, page 68: When, where she has been the representation of the fact that people had
been arrested, she responds: "Maybe because they're all family, do not know what we decided,
because I do not remember this aspect ", etcetera, etcetera, echo, this is a chance that you leave in
the previous report.
ANSWER - Yes, I confirm.
Q. - Look, when men return from the officials ... operation from the field, you meet someone? Those
who see in particular? Has the opportunity to directly exchange views with the participants, say, the
officials who conducted the operation? I mean, yes? (Inaudible)
ANSWER - I do not remember, I did ... surely I exchanged a few ... some key, I asked for something,
but I do not remember.
Q. - When they return, so she attends a sort of budget, I do not know ... to say, in short, she is (left),
even for large lines of this operation? That is ...
ANSWER - Well, it will be ... I do not remember, Doctor, perhaps, that is ... are certainly someone will
come even in offices where there were those who used (inaudible), and would bring the outcome ...
Q. - There was discussion about ... what should, could do at that time?
ANSWER - No, I do not remember.
Questions - were already taken decisions regarding the fate of these people?
REPLY - But is not that people ... the decision, the arrest of people, I think, if I remember correctly, it
was decided to the police station, later, later, not right there.
Q. - So sorry ...
ANSWER - Non .. I do not remember exactly.
Q. - "There was no discussion at police headquarters?" On page 68, "No, you had to do, no, no. P.m.:
there were already arrested? Colucci: yes, when I had already been arrested ... PM: she is informed
on were arrested for what? ", And she says ...
REPLY - But, I confirm what I said, I have no reason to ...
Q. - Because now I have (inaudible), I am allowed to remember, however, is a bit 'different in the
sense that you say that to the police station is not discussion, but they are arrested, based on what
she has reread .
REPLY - But are you sure (inaudible), so it will be discussed again, not ... I do not remember, do
not ...
Q. - Yes, so there is no way, for example, speak well, now your name, to speak with (Barbera), to talk
I know ... with Gratteri with Murgolo with ... to say, well, what happened, a bit '...
ANSWER - I will definitely ask anything for my personal curiosity, I asked colleagues who visited the
scene some clarification, some explanation, something, but I honestly do not remember ... in
particular, I will definitely ask anything, I knew only that there had been a confrontation, there was
resistance, there were wounded and had seized the property, and that there had been arrested.
Q. - Yes, but each or any of these officials of the mentioned, the most obvious problems that could
arise and that the issues were, perhaps, of that moment? Should I infer from the information so that I
myself received.
ANSWER - Non .. I can not understand what could be the problems at that time.
Q. - Well, well ... the question itself: it has had discussions with officials (inaudible) this, with this
budget, she said: "There has been bitter, very bitter ... (Inaudible) operations soft, quiet, easy, but
(inaudible) operations ...
ANSWER - So, you see, I was not there to (create) the only intervention that had ... surely, I was not
there ... I was also for other things, public order, and I remember I've got the men out, Carabinieri,
with Dr. (Caresini), which by the way I had also lost ... in the sense that I felt a bit 'exaggerated, in a
phone call, really, really, you've lost communication, that did not work well as phones, no longer
worked, the radio no longer worked. Then I heard his statement a bit 'exaggerated, so much so that I
was a quarter of an hour that night, very nervous, so I did not think the Diaz school, I did not think
so ... because I had lost the Deputy Vice-Quaestor. When I received when I arrived, a phone call, to
be fair, I'm not the person's name, however, that I objected to it in Parliament, because ... Parliament
has challenged me because I've had (inaudible) the Parliament, thanking the person who called me,
said: "Doctor, do not worry that Dr. (Casini) is with me, we are now together in Diaz"; I reassured him.
That is to say that at that moment (inaudible) I Diaz intervention, etc., I was also thinking of nothing
else, I thought also to legislators, to ... what's his name ... to large ...
Q. - Can you think, though, to my question?
ANSWER - I also thought, during the evening before the Diaz raid when we discussed the possible
(inaudible) Diaz, I was also thinking of the various national personalities ...
Q. - Can you think my question please?
ANSWER - Now that I'm here, I have to make a painting, or else ...
Q. - Look, we give the canvas, but after the end of his examination.
ANSWER - Why is it important and if (inaudible) them, this has an edge to my deposition.
Q. - Look, I do not want to be president, but the witness must answer the question, then my question
is clear, once in a while, I can answer? She said: "There was bitterness," and so on ...
ANSWER - Yes, it is true, this has ...
Q. - What has meant, what it means, because she ... this response from her after a series of
questions, asked to know if she has exchanged views with the officials who returned, see Mr.
President, (Barbera), or such other officers could be returned to the police station, except with the
Prefect ( La Barbera), with the Prefect (Andrea), the Vicar of the police, that is, then what do they
say?
ANSWER - In this moment ...
Q. - I have me out to his bitterness? Very well, then I ask you to explain what he meant sull'amarezza.

ANSWER - The bitterness I was there, at that time, when ... when you saw the results, why? Because
there were no injuries, there were no injuries, and as in confra ... in a gunfight kills a person ... one
time, for me, there is always a sense of bitterness, then, there has been wounded, there was an
intervention not soft as I hoped for, there was quite an operation ...
Q. - Wounded at the ... that intervention, which was not soft, so ...
ANSWER - So, I repeat, I'm saying that because an intervention was beyond that of those arrested
did not interest me ...
Q. - What were the wounded ...
ANSWER - There had been injured for which a minimum of bitterness ... I hoped that the intervention
had occurred in a softer way.
Q. - But is not ...
ANSWER - Address ... the operation.
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - I correct myself, the operation in general, not the intervention. The intervention does not
know how it was because I was not present. Look at the results, the results we have: x wounded on
the one hand, y injured by another, and this was the bitterness of mine.
Q. - But you are now, as it were, slowly calmed knowing and having learned there, the officer
returned, what had happened, for this bitterness ...
ANSWER - It is not a question of reassuring or not, ... also spec ... the simple discovery of the bottles
(Molotov cocktails), I can take comfort to a certain point.
Q. - I must explain, and I'm always talking about the bitterness that she connects her to the number of
wounded. At that stage, I think we also heard in this House a statement of Dr. (inaudible) that we
mentioned before, as we said, which she called for, I think, two and ten, on television, a rai, 24, who
says openly that begins to give the (inaudible) and leaves the police station, that the wounds are past,
then ...
ANSWER - On this ... This is an act, this, this ... now you made me a specific question, I repeat: I do
not know what he said (inaudible), I do not know ... I do not know ... I do not know ...
Q. - Did you see also in press (inaudible) police station in Genoa ...
ANSWER - I understand, but we are always there (Sgalla) was communicated to her, I do not is that I
went to see the press as well, to (Sgalla), I ...
Q. - Look, if I'm going to see the printouts, you speak with (Sgalla), perhaps there is next to the
statements of (Sgalla) on television, so it is that if (Sgalla) says one thing on television, she another
tells him.
ANSWER - I'm saying that I, indeed, I had some disappointments, I was bitter, and even then I said, I
learned from the staff, she reminded me, that was in place that in their opinion, have seen, even for
my belief that that forum was also a place where they could be brought to the wounded personnel
injured during the fighting ... the square. So ...
Q. - Look, he knew ...
ANSWER - It could also be a home, there being found, I say, I was not there, also ... of Medicinal
Products, or of gauze, what could be their emergency room for ...
Q. - This story took when? (Inaudible) officials.
ANSWER - Okay, I did not go there.
Q. - But how did officials learn that?
ANSWER - Why have seen it, maybe.
Q. - They saw what?
ANSWER - They've seen ...
Q. - (inaudible) of the Diaz we have seen, there was one thing seized, there are photographs,
movies ...
ANSWER - I do not know lawyer, for I (made) someone who has made site inspections to make a
finding on the material ...
Q. - We're talking about the first hours of the night, we are in the night between 21 and 22. so ...
ANSWER - I'm saying that I ...
Q. - And at 2:10 it says it came to the (progress), and then, is aware of previous investigative findings
that may lead to conclusions?
ANSWER - Listen ... (Inaudible) what I've been told.
Q. - From whom?
RESPONSE - From the officials ...
Q. - From the officials.
ANSWER - Having been told that I am found of ... disinfectants, gauzes of ... clotted blood, I think it
could be, I ask myself ...
Q. - He knew how many were injured at that time in the hospital?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - He knew how many were arrested?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - It is learned, in addition to this history of the hospital, who had been arrested the journalists?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Did not I tell anyone?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - It is learned that a journalist ...
ANSWER - Yes, okay ...
Q. - One owner ... but that night he was arrested a journalist?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No.
ANSWER - I had heard the next morning, later the same night no.
Q. - The next day as he learned and what they reported this arrest of the journalist?
REPLY - But, speaking of the number of those arrested, speaking of names of those arrested, this
journalist is not that ... is not that there was ...
Q. - What was the reporter ended up in hospital did not know?
REPLY - And yes, it may be that I have heard, but the day after this, because then the list of injured
c'avevamo ...
Q. - But it was also reported the arrest of another journalist, a British journalist who had been
transported to the hospital?
ANSWER - Mah .. definitely yes ...
Q. - (inaudible), then well ... veins called the news several times, was passed.
ANSWER - I was also told you, I do not know ... for goodness sake ... I do not remember.
Q. - Look, she spontaneously before mentioned a fact, I have stopped but did not prevent it because
he wants to say something, right? When I asked: "Has there been any significant event serious?", She
said: "No, Ace ... by mistake, "here is, what ...
ANSWER - I know there was a mistake on the part of a team instead of going ... the goal where they
were going, he went I do not know, in front of the school, where he was, where there was a
processing center of the (inaudible) here, I also know that once they are gone, they are not ...
Q. - I'm sorry, but it was clear that the school complex ... in that school building was the headquarters
of the (inaudible)? Was clear to her? But it was clear from the beginning .. that is, or not? Even on the
basis of what he reportedly told her Mortola?
ANSWER - ... surely is clear, however ... I went with (inaudible), I knew that ...
Q. - But he said this morning that we talked about (inaudible) because we call each ...
ANSWER - No, I speak of the (enclosed) of, not that there where we went.
Q. - And where did you go out you?
ANSWER - We did not (inaudible), in front, there is another school.
Q. - Okay, I do not feel the (flower) of witnesses here, (inaudible) who have told the ... Police also in
the center of the entrance to the (inaudible). Yes.
ANSWER - Because in the face, not (off microphone), we had to do ... sorry, that in the face, not to
Pertini, where many have gone to make the search, the complex is called Diaz Pertini school, where
we went we do we search, in front, I do not know where, exactly, but certainly not that complex, there
is another school called pastures. Evidently ...
Q. - He learned this when?
ANSWER - After I learned, our crew will have the wrong ...
Q. - After how long?
ANSWER - Doctor, when it had already entered and then dropped out, later.
Q. - Okay, then, tell me what you know and then ...
ANSWER - I heard that they entered in, which ... I do not know what happened to me also say that
they are immediately ritornat ... left because they realized that they had the wrong goal.
Q. - We the people: those who came in?
ANSWER - It is a crew of Bracket mounting ... squad.
Q. - A crew of a flying squad?
ANSWER - I think, I think so.
Q. - Do you think. (Off microphone). Can I ask you to be more precise in the details? A crew of a flying
squad went in front of the building by mistake.
ANSWER - Huh?
QUESTION - by mistake.
ANSWER - By mistake.
Q. - And how he knew how and by whom?
ANSWER - I heard from notices given by (inaudible) when (inaudible) someone gliel'avrà said.

DEFENCE MR. DOCTOR Porciani

DEFENCE -. Dr. Porciani - President, excuse me, you ask ... not on things that the witness has
personally experienced, but on things that may ...
PROSECUTOR - Dr. Zucca - She has voluntarily introduced the fact scratch compared to the entire
inquiry and ask the witness details on this occasion, spontaneously, for the sake of justice, the Court
has offered, I presume.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, but it is something that exists in the file, this ... This error of this ... (Off
microphone).
APPLICATION - All I can say about the fact that it is said that a scu ... a crew of a flying squad, if you
can tell which squad?
ANSWER - I do not remember.
DEFENCE -. Dr. Porciani - No, he said squad.
Q. - How not to ... flying squad?
DEFENCE -. Dr. Porciani - not necessarily the squad, perhaps squad, could also be another team.
PRESIDENT - Then, we let the witness speak please? So, I think it is already quite tired this morning,
so ...
PROSECUTOR - Dr. Zucca - I think ...
PRESIDENT - We try to do things with a certain ...
PROSECUTOR - Dr. Zucca - Calm.
PRESIDENT - AND quiet. Then, she has already said that he knew ...
ANSWER - I heard, perhaps by the same agent Digos Mortola, police believe that a crew of a flying
squad, though not in a squad room, another pool of personnel to this ... the police in Genoa, have the
wrong goal, basically, or I can ... in my imagination I also think that the others overlook, have done
something, maybe they knocked on (inaudible), I have no idea, I did not ... I repeat, stranger ... only
know that a crew was wrong, went in front at this institution, after which it is immediately released. I'll
tell you more: they say they have accused, then, that the police had destroyed something, then I
know, I know because I do not know ... that even the computers would disappear, I think something
has happened, in the sense that the computer is that if the police took them away, this is my personal
consideration.
Q. - Yes, absolutely, compliant with, and not out of the question, but anyway, it will not say this to you,
if it is not direct knowledge of the source, she says, this could be his information Dr. Mortola.
ANSWER - It could be that it was he, or another official, I do not know ...
Q. - Look, when he learned that?
RESPONSE - In the course of the night.
Q. - During the night of 22 July. Is this correct?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Have you heard of Dr. (Gava)?
ANSWER - (inaudible) Dr. (Gava), perhaps, might just be the Dr Gava who has done wrong, here.
Q. - You spoke with Dr. Gava?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No. Look, go to the police headquarters in Genoa and at 17:02 the fax is sent to the Chief of
Police, urgent, in which he says: "At the same time search, a check was done within the local
headquarters of the Press (inaudible), located in the office overlooking the Diaz school complex,
without the defendant to (inaudible) acts and operations challenges related to lack of security, "this is
an official act does not say that by mistake a team .. . is a reason ..

DEFENCE MR. DR. CORINI

DEFENCE -. Dr. Corina - President Excuse me, can you tell this document which is read by people
who have been drawn up, which signs the door? Because if no contest to witness something that
perhaps, when (expected) the existence today.

PROSECUTOR DR. PUMPKIN

Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - This is a fax that was also delivered by the Chief of Police during his
summary information acquired on the record, is a fax ...
DEFENCE -. Dr. Corina - We can tell who signed it, Dr. Mr. Pumpkin?
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - The Chief.
ANSWER - I'm sorry, I can repeat the sentence?
Q. - Well, I can give it to him even though she knows I'm not fax.
REPLY - But surely, I just wanted ...
Q. - No. .. (Off microphone). Frame.
ANSWER - I mean, I do not see the contradiction ...
Q. - No, there is a contradiction, it is clear, though, I mean, I tell you that there is given a justification of
this input of Police, which also has been described, by other witnesses in this courtroom, that is not
error. So I wonder ...
ANSWER - This is a mistake here.
Q. - It is a mistake or an error telegram ...
ANSWER - the intervention is a mistake, let alone the frame. It is a mistake ... and no, sorry ... is a
mistake ...
Q. - But this is information that she gave the police chief, but ... but ... as "Let's leave that frame."
REPLY - But here comes to an audit (inaudible), because it is not that ... This is a goal. Evidently, the
team of Dr. (inaudible) ...
Q. - But there because she tenev ... we made today to specify this? Why?
ANSWER - Because it can be against ...
Q. - But why?
REPLY - And I do not know.
Q. - With all the things we had to clarify this clarified?
DEFENCE -. Dr. Corina - I'm sorry that President ... and not ... This is not allowed this ...
PRESIDENT - The reason we imagine, but no ...
Q. - You have been reminded by someone this episode?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - I can ask? Because a precise memory emerges, in contrast to the official communications to the
commissioner, ex-Quaestor of Genoa, Dr. Colucci?
ANSWER - It was not solicited or remembered by anyone. As for the highest partnership that I want to
give this Court, since I have been asked questions (inaudible) and some episodes do not recall being
so many years, this is an episode, talking about, I am reminded, and I said at one point that we went
there ... my staff have gone there in a place where they had to go, for clarity, then, after that, they did
get together, how many have noticed, that this was not the goal. The fact that is disclosed, it is right by
the police, notify the Chief of Police, and in fact it was announced that investigations for ...
Q. - But you here, be patient, telling us, for anxiety and justice, something that was reported by a
source that identifies her uncertainly, or can confirm it with more determination, now in Dr. Mortola,
and then we is a story vaguely heard of what happened.
ANSWER - Everything that has happened to Diaz ...
Q. - No, contrary to by documents ...
APPLICATION - All what happened to Diaz that day, was told to me by other people, there was an
episode that I personally experienced. So all my ... uncertainty is due to the memories of people who
have told me, in this case, someone told me.
Q. - So, I must say though ...
ANSWER - When she complains, I'm sorry doctor, when she says: "Look, maybe the Doctor (Gallo)
says something ...", yes, I remember, is the Dr. (Gallo) who made This (raid), who told me of this raid,
I think I have the Dr. Mortola said, I think.
Q. - So, we can then compare ... we will compare the time when ... (inaudible) perfect.
ANSWER - I think so, I think so, because for me it is an important point of reference Mortola.
Q. - Very well.
ANSWER - Dr. Mortola and Dr. Dominici referents were essential ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - Thanks for this clarification, Dr. Colucci, I finished my exam.
PRESIDENT - The plaintiffs have questions? You're welcome.
CIVIL PARTY - MR. TARTARINI
Q. - We remain on this while another school, she, then, then you know that the Diaz Pertini school
was assigned one of the schools (inaudible)?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - That's right. She reports to Chief of Police what it is, ie what is the building that went to search?
ANSWER - It is likely I will have reported, and also reported that I went because ... I also particularly
said that information taken, the school had been abandoned because it was a (inaudible).
Q. - So you, in fact, report to the Chief of Police that.
ANSWER - ... perhaps in a much broader discussion of the Chief of Police Chief, and also briefly
spoke to me: "Are you sure? You have done this, you did that other ", it is evident, this speech ... yes,
of fairness toward the police chief.
Q. - Very well. Another question always on this story: she calls the police chief, and then then calls for
his initiative, another series of establishment figures, the Mayor, the Prefect, and even Dr. (Sgalla). He
says it's normal thing na, she told us here today: "It 'something that you normally do in our work."
ANSWER - No, no, I said that the Prefect (inaudible), it was a big event focused public order, then if
there is a part that concerns the Judicial Police ... however, the Prefect is informed, however. The
Mayor, being the number one, the mayor of the city, I had to inform him of what was happening in the
city, because that is a seat of the Municipality of Milan, also because ...
Q. - Di Genova.
ANSWER - It had been entrusted to Genoa (Social Forum), and we had the certainty that the Genoa
Social Forum have it abandoned.
Q. - Well, so she called Dr. Sgalla ...
ANSWER - I called Dr. Sgalla because, being our partner in communications, from the time they
occurred (inaudible) something, a question of the Press, or at midnight or two in the morning, he
remains ... should be informed about what was happening.
Q. - Here, you have called (inaudible) Dr. Sgalla?
ANSWER - ... Space in the police station, so I called in that situation, and he clearly was sleeping, he
was eating ...
Q. - Here, there, the search that took place in the afternoon, the building (inaudible) that has
(inaudible) there's nickname, the arrest of ... was not significant enough in person, she called Dr.
Sgalla bear to do it on site?
ANSWER - It was already informed Dr. Sgalla ...
Q. - You went there?
ANSWER - I do not know if he went, but he was informed.
Q. - Very well. There was a press conference Dr. Sgalla that day ...
ANSWER - I do not know at that moment I thought of nothing else than the press.
Q. - Very well. Then I make one last question: she has already reported that Dr. (inaudible) the
director of all teams that were present ... had the role of coordinator of the participants physically
present at the plexus Diaz. The reported in other circumstances in all these years? I would also refer
to the committee, other ... let me finish the question, so ...
ANSWER - I have always reported that ... there is no need to write down everything that has to do an
official who is sent by the deputy chief of police and also by the Police in Genoa.
Q. - Well, I do another question, she was required to issue ... who was responsible in some way,
responsible for ...
ANSWER - Yes, I was also asked in Parliament, but not ... I have not ...
Q. - It has decided to report it.
ANSWER - The fact ... two things I am and where I noticed it was requested not by the judicial
authority, but by other people who have flown on both the fact that (inaudible) is on the fact that
(inaudible).
Q. - I mean, so she said, she is telling us that she told the committee that is responsible, so to speak,
the organizational search of Dr. (Murgo) and was passed over this ...
DEFENCE -. Dr. Corina - President, excuse me, we're back on the challenge of the acts that are
foreign to the process, she was first inhibited, and rightly so ...
THE CIVIL - Lawyer tartaric - no, I'm not presenting six of the data, I asked a person ...
DEFENCE -. Dr. Corina - President, there is opposition to the question, thanks.
THE CIVIL - tartaric Lawyer - Now, if I can converse on the position of my colleague, then, was ...
apart from that has been asked on many occasions in this House to ... the person who came to report
what he had been asked on several occasions. Here is a fact that he has ... is a certain fact
(inaudible) on which the person may report, or if they asked questions, including in a public venue, not
a home or private (secret), when he was asked, what said, is a given that he has some direct
perception and knowledge, I do not see what the limit of our code so he can respond.
PRESIDENT - That is not relevant for us.
THE CIVIL - tartaric Lawyer - Well, but for the Civil Party, the President assured that it is quite
significant.
PRESIDENT - obviously irrelevant for us. (Off microphone), is relevant only what we recover here, so
if you can directly ask the witness what to remember what but not what he said and said in response
to someone who has questions.
THE CIVIL - tartaric Lawyer - however, if it is relevant in some way (inaudible) heads, the fact that
(inaudible) did not consider it necessary to report a condition to Parliament of the Republic ...
PRESIDENT - ... They will be evaluated for ... as a conclusion.
Q. - Okay, I make one last question: you had the (inaudible) in his witness statements prior to this
hearing? And, if so, when?
ANSWER - I did send you to ... My report and the fact (inaudible).
Q. - Without sent by whom?
RESPONSE - From the audience, if not ...
Q. - (inaudible) I would be happy, well ... Thank you.
PRESIDENT - Please ...

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. RIDE

THE CIVIL - Mr. Stroll
QUESTION - Hello Quaestor, listen, I wanted to return a second operation on the purpose: then, if I
understood well what you told formulatale demand by the public prosecutor, basically this is decided
as a result of the aggression that is suffered by This patrol was where Dr. Di Bernardini, correct? And
though I would ask you not to make a gesture, but to answer your microphone, because I have dinner,
alas, remains in the ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes. It is correct, is correct.
Q. - in the record, thank you. Listen, and consequently she confirms that the aim of this operation was
therefore to try to identify what were the authors of this aggression to this auto-patrol, correct?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Perfect. Listen, can I ask what the odds, given his experience, there were, in a context like this,
getting to this endeavor through a search?
DEFENCE -. Dr. Corina - No, the President, as formulated, the question is not admissible, as there
were chances, forgive me but there's opposition to the formulation of the question, must be done in
another way, no how likely ... eh ...
PRESIDENT - If reformulates otherwise maybe it's better.
Q. - It was thought likely to be able to get ... (Off microphone).
PRESIDENT - she must formulate the question in concrete terms, not what he thought the witness,
but what he did, he said ...
QUESTION - Listen, Di Bernardini said many were there? A few, many, the features, clothing?
ANSWER - I remember ... said they were attacked ... then it's not that I entered in particular, those
who were, it was clothing. Clearly, if I remember ... that is, I think that clothing was dark, black, so
much so that a confirmation ...
Q. - But they told her, or think?
ANSWER - Mah .. I do not remember.
QUESTION - Listen, then agree with me that it was an operation that, in the premises, it was not
considered particularly striking?
ANSWER - It is an ...
DEFENCE -. Dr. Corina - President, there continues to be opposition to this ... (Inaudible). However, I
said, Mr. President, my opposition is that the question in those terms, may not be eligible, is then
examined against no opposition. Thank you.
PRESIDENT - Opposition rejected.
Q. - What do you expect from this?
ANSWER - The identification of ... find the people who had attacked Dr ... crews, the crews of ... State
Police and possibly confiscating weapons that had gone because we believed that they could
(conceal) weapons.
Q. - So you, for this, his impulse or suggestion of the chief of police, intends to warn Dr. Sgalla.
ANSWER - I repeat once again that Dr. Sgalla not warn him of any transaction. If Dr. Sgalla, who is
there to communicate with the organs of (state), with the outside of his business during the day and
provides him, as the fact was done at night, when it is assumed that the Doctor was asleep and Sgalla
was not aware of what we were doing to the police station, since there is, I do not see ... to the police
station, I felt compelled to inform him: "Look, there's this situation."
Q. - Okay. Listen, after the end of the operation, he felt with Dr. Sgalla?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No, go back, for a moment, rather on the sequence, so to speak, training of the moment decision
to carry out this operation. Then, all original, as we said before, tell me if it is correct, the return of (Di
Bernardini) that comes in and says he was attacked.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Is this correct? There is, therefore, is a first meeting in which, say so, the decision to proceed,
then, at this point, the operation at the school complex.
ANSWER - There was an order, you examine what happened, and you're thinking, no, you decide, if
you are thinking of doing an intervention.
Q. - At this point, you decide, call us at (Covaci), correct?
ANSWER - They are then made to decide whether to go or not to make the act of the Judicial Police,
you decide to do the investigations.
Q. - As to the investigations that result in?
Answers - I repeat, a site inspection on site and a telephone call to the consignee of the property.
Q. - On-site inspection on the spot who performs?
ANSWER - Dr. Mortola.
Q. - At the back, Dr. Mortola what do you say?
ANSWER - It tells you there is something quite ...
DEFENCE -. Dr. Porciani - President, I ask please that you are seen extending from I do not know
how many hours this ... to new research questions, because we've heard this several times, so
please, let's be more specific, what we've heard ...
Q. - So, retail demand, President: return Mortola renewed his concerns that had appeared earlier or
not?
ANSWER - Perhaps I expressed myself well I: Mortola makes the doubts later, after the (inaudible).
Q. - And then I had not really understood.
ANSWER - Apparently he did the first site inspection.
Q. - Here, then, the station is time-site inspection?
ANSWER - Mortola However not ... does not comment on the event ... on ... at that time its value is
not expressed whether or not, did not express his doubts, express them later.
Q. - In a separate meeting with her.
ANSWER - After phoned (Covaci). But (inaudible) is not due to the call, that is ... is due ...
Q. - And he was already back from the site inspection.
ANSWER - ... professional, in my opinion.
Q. - Yes, yes, no, God forbid, God forbid, of course. Listen, I wanted to return instead, a moment, the
discourse on the "pressures" that are determined during this meeting. She confirms that these
pressures, essentially, this ... call it ambient pressure, if I pass the time, was essentially a speech that
was created, was born in this meeting came from all participants?
ANSWER - I do not understand the question.
Q. - That is, the first meeting formed the decision to go to school and do this to search (ex-41) ...
ANSWER - No, you have to do first meeting of the inquiry.
Q. - You have to do the investigation. I get it. Okay. Listen, Dr. Gratteri was there, right at the first
meeting?
ANSWER - I think so.
Q. - I said before. Plays: was ...
DEFENCE -. Dr. Porciani - Excuse me President, I ... really, you mentioned your colleague did not
repeat the questions, and ... just requested. If Dr. Bertola was there, I said before. Now I do not want
to overdo it and go to eat, but ...
PRESIDENT - Try to be as much as possible here ... Thank you.
Q. - Perfect. Dr. Gratteri, well ... the second question, of course, presupposes the first, was
determined to go?
ANSWER - No, Dr. Gratteri was with us (Duple): "Come, come, we check, we do", and then eventually
we decided to go, he has not decided on or after the first ... all had a ... we say ... we agreed to do
together and we were checking what to do.
QUESTION - Listen ...
ANSWER - I mean, I mean, is not that in that context was the first, second, the third meeting, it
prevails, an indication ... Who is that ... we do, we go there, someone wanted to impose his will.
Q. - No, but if I have not misunderstood, first, at the request of the Public Ministry, she said that
basically there was unanimity in the way to go.
ANSWER - I am not denying that.
Q. - No, no, but for heaven's sake, it was only to understand.
ANSWER - There was no pressure to be against those of other components in the group.
THE CIVIL - Dr. Stroll - President, I ask you a favor: come from the banks of Defense sneers, things
like that. I do not allow myself to roles reversed. Ask for reciprocity. Thank you.
PRESIDENT - I think it's a legitimate request, and I ... (Inaudible).
Q. - With President. Listen one more thing: I have noted before that one thing she said spontaneously
at the beginning of his interrogation, that she has essentially made this speech, if I understand
correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong, referring both to herself than to Barbera, that is saying we are
the policemen who have the operational experience, we are people who have served in the street, so,
basically, when there are operations of this kind, we are caught, say, well, the temptation to go on
place to see how ... How is the situation. I grasped his thinking, Questor?
ANSWER - Yes, to be with men, you understand?
Q. - Then, of course, with his subordinates, of course. So, I can ask you the reason for the confusion
during the interview that makes external front of the Dr. Zucca, for the convenience of fellow
opponents are on page 41, then, if necessary, the complaint also detailed directions, in which she
essentially, is to say that it was quite normal for her that La Barbera did not go there, and it is
wonderful seeing him go.
ANSWER - Then, a speech is to be close to men operationally in the sense that La Barbera is in
Genoa to be near his men, another speech the operational action, on the spot, that is, I was also
taken as Quaestor to go, I needed too ' I am going to see what was happening, no, but because I was
also the author of Public Safety and as the commissioner had to stay there in the police station, I am
surprised that a Prefect of the Republic, even if ... he was at Genoa I am surprised, however, knowing
that was in place then its ... I am amazed at the range, however, knowing his character in the
maximum operation, ie a man of salt, a man of blood he really wanted to be on the field. For this I did
not agree because maybe I have a more mild, up to a certain extent I agree, then, he's gone beyond
professional duty to tell the man and commander. I am stopped before, that I had the ... I say: I stand
here I do not go well although I would have liked, but he for his image, his figure, I think it might be
better if he stayed there, right? I think I do not know. These are just ramblings of my mind, this has
nothing to do with the object of the process, I do not know, then ...
Q. - I am sorry not oh well .. no, no for charity to the commissioner, but not facciam controversy,
please. Listen, one more last thing, then no further harassment. When she was told during a search of
the lawyers out there were that required to assist the institution?
ANSWER - I do not know that.
Q. - Why do I explain, it turns out, the fact tabular, then it will seek the acquisition of the Public
Ministry, but of course then I ask myself, tabular results from this phono that was submitted first.
ANSWER - No.
Q. - So it is not satisfied. Just no more questions, thanks.
REPLY - But I believe that lawyers can come later, I have no idea. So many things ...

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. TADDEI

THE CIVIL - Mr. Taddei -
QUESTION - Hello, Taddei Lawyer for recording one quick question. First reported this, has
reconstructed a moment, he met this policeman who was attacked while he was in school. I wanted a
clarification, if you remember, while she had been warned, she was provided a few details about the
dynamics on this episode by this agent?
ANSWER - The dynamic explained above. I knew going in this policeman upper floor of the school, I
do not know, at some point in the dark was attacked from behind by a person who has vibrato, was to
give him a knife, so he struggles and is able to avoid the blow even if the jacket and took this with a
wrestling move, I do not know, Karate and then the assailant managed to escape.
Q. - Here, here has already anticipated my own, with his response, already my next question. I
wanted to just ask her if she remembers in particular for example, if this person had told her that he
was hit, how many times he had been hit?
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - You talk about a knife I wanted to ask for a clarification.
ANSWER - Basically I have not seen ...
Q. - Do you remember that the person reported to have suffered a stroke ..
REPLY - But a glancing blow will have been well, for I have seen .. the knife is going to be firmly
against a body, we say. In that case was one, perhaps in the struggle, he snatched the knife, he
injured his jacket ...
Q. - Yes, yes, of course.
ANSWER - these are special to me as the commissioner did not interest me. To me the other details
are never affected.
Q. - I just wanted to know according to the reconstruction that was given by word of mouth from this
person, that's all.
ANSWER - Thank you.
Q. - I have no further questions, thanks.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. SABATINI

THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini -
APPLICATION - Part Sabatini Civil Lawyer, good morning. I have some questions about this: You say
in the first meeting of the organization, heard about the possibility of finding within the school so-called
Black Block?
ANSWER - No, maybe there was a certainty. Once satisfied that the Genoa Socialforum that is no
longer a place occupied by members of the Genoa Socialforum, once it establishes that the Black
Block were out Socialforum Genoa, once it establishes that Dr. Mortola, that there were ... people
dressed in black I was almost sure to find the inside (inaudible low-voice).
Q. - Okay. On this I would like to understand exactly. She has previously reported during the
examination most of the test that has made today, that this initiative to your school was founded by an
accident, an attack on your own car, right? And the officers had arrived and were told: "we are
attacked we have to answer" is correct?
DEFENSE - Attorney Porciani - Excuse me, excuse me President .... but there is a limit ...
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - But I'm not doing a thing he said all the beautiful ...
(Overlapping voices)
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - I'm saying this, that because now he says that .. oh well, it does not matter,
I agree, take this premise does not matter. You are then intervened to pick up the Black Block who
had somehow made accidents in Genoa?
ANSWER - We have taken the attack to find the person responsible for the eventual recovery of
weapons, and to find potential liability of other people (inaudible) during the incident of the G8.
Q. - In this sense, no one in that meeting felt he had to make one pass over information to the judicial
authorities?
ANSWER - I did it personally, I informed the judicial authorities with a phone call.
Q. - Who?
ANSWER - To substitute a judge on duty. Then here we have a lot to discuss.
Q. - Sure, you look ...
ANSWER - I have a magistrate on duty informed by telephone. Or me, excuse me, I correct myself,
because I remember it well, or I or Dr. Mortola was definitely informed Dr. Canepa.
Q. - Dr. Canepa Dr. Mortola?
ANSWER - I think ...
Q. - Perfect. Look inside this, we say that there had been discussion, some expressed doubts about
the timetable and the fact that an operation was taking place at night?
RESPONSE - At night when we intervene we must be much more careful than we are during the
day ..
Q. - No, no, this ...
ANSWER - I just wanted to clarify, no, no memory.
Q. - Perfect. rather than the phone call between Covaci and Dr. Mortola, her, great for extreme clarity,
of course, did not speak with Covaci?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No, everything she told us today it may be, was what she had heard say, what he said Mortola,
obviously she has not .. This was hands-free phone call, heard it too?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No, all he heard he heard that Dr. Mortola told it to him and as he spoke?
ANSWER - Yes
Q. - No, yes, no. Mortola told it to him that, or while he was talking Covaci?
REPLY - Oh, me said while talking to Covaci, that he spoke out loud and I felt ..
Q. - So that is not reported it to him, he ...
ANSWER - (inaudible) no, he spoke as "You are sure that" ...
Q. - Yes, yes, perfect no, because the alternative was not cumulative. Perfect. and then, after the next
step was to go to re-examine ...
ANSWER - To bring the outcome of the ...
APPLICATION - The result is perfect. and has brought her this success?
ANSWER - Yes, I brought him, have brought the Mortola ....
Q. - As regards the subject of the transaction and the transaction manager - I just need a clarification -
if you know these facts, the Department subsequently took initiatives in terms of internal investigation
on Diaz?
ANSWER - It is well known.
Q. - No, look, the Court does not know the word well known if not for sensational events like ...
ANSWER - The Police has ordered an investigation, an inspection on Bolzaneto on Diaz and public
order.
Q. - Who is it that this inspection took place on Diaz?
ANSWER - There were three officials ...
Q. - No, no, on Diaz, we're there.
ANSWER - I can not remember exactly, maybe I do not remember Micalizzi. of the three is ...
Q. - Prefect Micalizzi. And she ...
ANSWER - The Prefect Micalizzi was the coordinator of the other directors, other inspectors.
However, perhaps he did him directly.
Q. - Directly. But then the signature is well ...
REPLY - But the signing is because he is the coordinator, is not that made him directly, in my opinion.
Then, however ...
Q. - You know then that relationship.
ANSWER - I know because I asked to purchase acts in Parliament so that I had no reason to
complain of that report in Parliament.
Q. - And how is it that you remember on what points you ...
ANSWER - The whole, entire (overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - Attorney Porciano - President renewed the opposition ... There is no opposition.
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - He's telling his story, what happened, but she will not appeal on that report,
that report is written that there were not responsible for the operation ....
 DEFENSE - Attorney-Porciano There is no objection to the application can ...
PRESIDENT - The question is not allowed. Step forward.
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini-No, Mr. President, I would insist in this way. It's not that it is not, I ... this
question will not be repeated, I'm just saying, even for a ... I do it because there will be, we will
witness next. At issue is not an act that I use and I want to know, the question is this: the witness said
they had had in relation to this report, which is an element of knowledge on Diaz, conflicting ideas.
These conflicting ideas are important wealth of knowledge, because they are, for example, could
make him come up with something that now does not occur to us, are very important because the
issue of responsible ...
PRESIDENT - We are not interested ...
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - What do not care?
DEFENSE - Attorney Porciano - not interested in the relationship ...
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - But not to me, even me. It was an introduction. I said look at that ...
PRESIDENT - I feel that these heads 4 hours. All we could say, what are his ideas and his knowledge
of the facts of the case, we believe that they have already said in 4 hours. If she wants to know
someone else who asks?
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - The question ...
PRESIDENT - But we may ask you to refer to contradictions or to what he considered not correct in
the report of ...
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - That is, if I ask the witness, then, she has been heard by the council I can
not answer him?
PRESIDENT - That does not interest lawyer.
DEFENSE - Attorney Porciano - President, but what we are doing a course of criminal proceedings on
the case? Why can not we ...
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini No, we're not doing a course in criminal procedure, we were ...
DEFENSE - Attorney-Porciano But you do have questions about specific facts, this witness 5 hours ...
(Overlapping voices).
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini-He never said that there were no leaders who were responsible for this .....
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENSE - Attorney Porciano - But it is not permissible, President is not allowed ....
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - He comes here and says that the controller (overlapping voices) charged ..
PRESIDENT - Then all this will say (overlapping voices)
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - But I can not say, I ask why?
PRESIDENT - For nothing at all, simply because the witness will tell ...
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - on items on the basis of which today is a wonderful thing ...
CHAIRMAN - Okay, just a lawyer, we closed.
THE CIVIL - Mr. Sabatini - All right.

DEFENSE - CHAMBERS-OF BUGNO -

DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Lawyer Di Bugno (overlapping voices)

Prosecutor - In order not to repeat the same scene. When the lawyer talks with the previous one and
allows you to contradict, to do so, you can avoid having to say the support of disagreement with the
clap ... why is that important audience, President, because we fly a little 'words too ...
PRESIDENT - We can go ahead, please.

DEFENCE MR. Di Bugno

DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - I just want to point out that the defense will have many defects but not to
accept the decisions of the Court so supine, things that others do not, we are always silent and
always submissive. More and more these rumblings of these things .... Then I wanted to ask you
something, the more things very quickly even though it is this: the news about the fact that bottles
have been found at Diaz, for the first time she receives the phone?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Of course this is?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - That is the thing that is certain is that she receives the news by phone ...
ANSWER - Yes, and I reported to Professor Andreassi.
QUESTION - Listen when receiving, as she, even before responding to the request of the Public
Ministry has been able to give accurate time information, but what I want to ask, had already returned
to the police station at least some officials who were at or Diaz still she was going to do?
ANSWER - For me it was in progress.
Q. - So you had that moment only phone information.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Look, she said, as I pointed out the prosecution, the first phone call he received from Diaz as
general information, was just about the Molotov cocktails. Then also reported always questions the
prosecutor, at the request of the Prosecutor of the time - that today, however, was disputed - that this
person could be Luperi or Mortola, because that could be Luperi she refers to page 60 of the report,
Mortola and could be, as the prosecutor had said earlier: "No, of Mortola did not say" on page 80: "I
do not remember, may have been Luperi, Mortola may have been," then you rightly say " I do not
remember. " So the data are that today offers us a call .... the telephone call and this news comes
before it came from some official Diaz. Now I say, when officials came from Diaz's obvious that you'll
talk about this fact or not?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - You have talked a bit 'all the circumstances?
ANSWER - No, because that is when officials arrived Diaz Diaz officials who were, La Barbera, then
there was Luperi, then it could be just Gratteri.
Q. - Here you remember who was among those first to arrive at the police station?
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - Now, her first speaking more generally, precisely the information that came to Diaz, reported that
subjects could not remember the circumstance of the news of the Molotov cocktail was quite
uncertain, I say, I do this just to help her, the first call, the first contact she has with Dr. Luperi, after
00:40, which is assumed to be the time in which they are found or Luperi becomes aware of the
bottles, that is, to 1:23, ie 43 minutes after the news. It is possible that you have had this news to the
1: 23? For the first time? So a lot 'of time after it was over the raid. I'm telling him this because she is
uncertain, so, if I can stimulate the memory.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Why, so I give a total picture of the situation, we say that if the search ends up down at midnight
and ten, a quarter past midnight ..
ANSWER - You can not ending so soon. Begins at 0:30 midnight I think.
Q. - But we have the data that we give that ends at midnight, a quarter past midnight. However, before
the discovery of the bottles, but let's say in the immediacy of the search term, you (overlapping
voices)
Prosecutor Pumpkin - We keep this data?
(Overlapping voices)
PRESIDENT - What data do excuse me?
Prosecutor - We have data that ...
(Overlapping voices)
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Okay, okay. She did not have ever had these records. She did not have
ever had the minutes (overlapping voices)
PROSECUTOR - I say only that the prosecutor can not be said that "we have data that" ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - She tabulated here that we did not have ever had? I ask myself certain
questions and certain issues, this morning she did not. At 00:38 she receives a phone call two
minutes and fifty seconds from Dr. Murgolo. Do you remember? In this phone call? Why are 2 minutes
and 52 already and I tell her to remember, do not think I want to suggest that she does not say ... to
stimulate the memory I must point out that until the phone call Luperi, at 0:23 ..
ANSWER - I'm sorry but come on what telephone users?
Q. - that you receive it on his cell phone.
REPLY - Oh, my mobile phone?
Q. - Yes.
Mr. Prosecutor. Cardona - President is quoted incorrectly tabulated the data because the caller is the
Chief of Colucci, not called.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - I said that ... agree with the first conversation, has this phone
conversation than 2 minutes and fifty ... agreement is not required by Murgolo, I am referring to
people who could set himself the problem of finding people who had given information. I have a
printout telephone: at 00:38 and the Court knows the meaning of these times, Dr. Colucci makes or
receives, however, has a conversation with Dr. Murgolo than 2 minutes and 52 seconds. I wanted to
point out that this phone call to that of Luperi 1: 23, there is no conversation so long, but even they are
not even commensurate. That is by far one of 2:52, watch, three minutes in absolute terms, the
longest conversation she has with an officer present at the Diaz. I ask you: if, - is a certain fact that he
had - if you can remember the content. For example, because she has never made reference to
information received from the first Murgolo.
ANSWER - I do not remember.
Q. - But you may have talked about something that happened to Diaz?
ANSWER - Ma .. yes, we have no reason to talk about other things!
Q. - We agree on this.
ANSWER - On this we agree, is not that we talked about sports or movies, in fact.
Q. - Do you receive, then, from other people who are at the Diaz school, which are the subject of
Diaz, other calls. Exactly, at '1:06, 1: 08, at' 1:17, 1: 19, 1: 20. If an official is always found to Diaz, and
Dr. Gratteri. After three minutes from 1: 20 will phone, the phone you Luperi. I tell her: "Do you
remember the information that was given?"
ANSWER - No. I remember exactly.
Q. - These are contacts I have, you understand?
ANSWER - Yes, yes. I have not excluded, will certainly be (inaudible) with the contacts, I remember ...
beyond that I have been informed of the impediment of the new bottles, beyond that I have been told
that the staff strength has been, beyond that there have been any fights, I remember perfectly well
that their own churches Luperi precisely the machines.
Q. - So that, Mr. President, my speech, just tended to clarify this situation, based on documentation,
which is definitely more useful than the evil eye, to remind the witness in what has happened, and
above all a challenge to recover I must say, in a tone made by the Public Ministry is not too strong,
just the person who would give her the information. So much so that last statement to coordinate this
with what he had done in his time, I'd like to read, on page 61 of the minutes. When these questions
are made, at one point says Dr. Colucci: she has been informed of how it went (inaudible), the
prosecutor had read. No, no.
PROSECUTOR - President, excuse me. It can not, the first is a challenge without having asked a
question?
Q. - Yes.
PROSECUTOR - Eh.
Q. - This is the point. The first, which receives the call, she said that Molotov cocktails were found?
And Colucci responds: "Yes, yes." PM "Enough!" Dr. Colucci: "Yes, yes." "Excuse me, let's clarify
something, because it has the improbable." Colucci, and here is the point where it adapts, so as to
understand that there is a difference: "I step back, I received several phone calls," as it is to be
repeated here, "calls the discovery of Molotov cocktails, and I remember who made me. And Luperi
other phone calls, I think Luperi, risollecitava sending me, there were wounded, I risollecitava sending
vans, big media, etc.. etc. ". She ...
ANSWER - I confirm.
Q. - ... based on what I say today can reasonably exclude that it was Dr. Luperi to refer to the Molotov
cocktail?
ANSWER - I can not be excluded.
Q. - I'll present, among other things, to this end, the call Dr. Luperi only lasts 26 seconds. And she has
already said that in fact there is an additional argument, namely the discovery, the excuse of the
buses. So today you based on the data that I have offered can reasonably be excluded?
ANSWER - I confirm absolutely.
Q. - Do you think you had it before 1: 23 bottles of the news?
ANSWER - I have been?
Q. - Before 1: 23 the news ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Look, we talked about the first meeting, right? I figured that was also attended by Dr. Luperi.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - But you, when in fact reported behavior of other subjects, spoke of those who were at the
meeting, never said something that made Dr. Luperi. And I wonder: maybe it was just impressed
because the presence of La Barbera did not have any decision-making autonomy in this context?
ANSWER - I think so.
Q. - In the event that La Barbera decided to intervene, any right of veto Luperi, would lead to some
conclusion?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Luperi, you remember, intervened on issues, he was active, or released their work mainly in La
Barbera, the point?
ANSWER - No, on this point. Barbera is its director.
Q. - When she says that the subjects were worth, in relation to that reached top positions, ie at the
meeting, in relation to taking a top position with respect to the various branches of the Ministry, which
then can also re ... she said just find himself at the police headquarters, NO? Luperi, was in this
position or what was his place to the Ministry, was already covered in some way, (inaudible) by the
presence of La Barbera.
ANSWER - It was covered by the presence of La Barbera.
Q. - So who were the direct ministerial contact, apical ones?
ANSWER - The Barbera.
Q. - Then?
ANSWER - Andreassi.
Q. - In relation to the various departments, the various structures, we say.
ANSWER - Well, there was between the structures ... Gratteri he was, but he was the only exposed ...
expression of the SCO.
Q. - That is the ultimate expression of the SCO, but not ..
REPLY - But the maximum of the department.
Q. - Do not up to the department. Luperi Instead, at that time, had the highest representation with the
department saying that it was Dr. Labarbe ... La Barbera, who was the Prefect.
ANSWER - No, he was not the best.
Q. - Precisely.
ANSWER - There Barbera.
Q. - He had with him, in that context?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Look, the day before, Luperi, what was it busy?
RESPONSE - In a special way of ... the news that arrived from ... the room is ... room (inaudible)
Q. - It was then worked mainly a diplomatic role, relationships with other police forces?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - you, who knows, had dealt with operational aspects?
ANSWER - I do not think, no. He was concerned about what was happening.
Q. - But it has never intervened in the territories?
ANSWER - No, no, no.
Q. - Here, one last thing. She remembers the Diaz Luperi after surgery? You remember in her room?
ANSWER - Sure will come in my room because Luperi ... He was one of those people who came into
my room.
Q. - Do you own an effort Time Luperi return to the police station does not, can not do it!? Why do I do
this, there is a phone call Luperi, a conversation between Luperi Colucci and then between her and
Luperi, of 1:55:29. So, I assume that at that time, if the call, Luperi not with her in her room.
ANSWER - Clear.
Q. - Do you remember that Luperi has arrived later than others?
ANSWER - When it came, it came from me, because I asked myself, even I will not tell you
apologized, but I have represented several of his reasons that made me call for urgency to send the
media. That is why I had to post, as has always been an official correct, but later, surely I saw him,
when he arrived at police headquarters, the first thing you have done will come to me to say "I will
look pressed because there was this situation. "
Q. - Of course! One last point if you can. When I refer to the time of this call, which is the last good
with her at least, from which we can assume that Luperi not yet arrived at police headquarters, I'm
talking about the 2, the other officers had already arrived?
ANSWER - Many were coming.
Q. - You could say that Luperi is one of the last arrived?
ANSWER - the last, remained in place to ensure that everyone, I had the feeling that he was what I
was leading a little 'the evacuation of staff was in place.
Q. - Okay. Thank you.

DEFENSE - Attorney Corini -

Q. - A question. The first meeting participant also saw Dr. Gratteri said earlier, saying this. to exempt
the field from all doubt. She received pressure to some extent by Dr. Gratteri for this search was
done? Dr. Gratteri was himself in a subordinate position compared to the Prefect and Prefect
Andreassi Barbera?
ANSWER - Well, certainly compared to the Prefect Andreassi, because it is the Deputy Chief of
Police.
Q. - Here, we say that a denial or approval of the Prefect Andreassi were still questionable, as I
understand it, including yourself, by any of the participants at the meeting?
ANSWER - If the Prefect Andreassi had taken a hard position ... Then there was little space.
Q. - So we say that the outcome of the meeting, although the first, although one that generated input
information, see however, an agreement as a final solution, which is not challenged by the Prefect
Andreassi that, as I understand, were your top hierarchical able, at that meeting. Here, (Unintelligible)
I tell her.
ANSWER - Yes, it is above all ... hierarchy of the meeting.
Q. - Another thing. The same prefect Andreassi therefore, to indicate, given the involuntary defection
due to injury, the possibility of designating the then Director Dr. Murgolo First, the person in some way
responsible for the transaction?
ANSWER - When the Prefect Andreassi, (inaudible), context (inaudible), on the spot, not that he
asked me, officials were already in place ...
Q. - So, this fact has already been seen in court.
ANSWER - So when someone sends us, I said, "Dr. (inaudible) Lapis hurt" then there was Murvolo,
and Andrea tells Murvolo says "you feel like going, you go on location."
Q. - Do you forgive me, with which the function is there, we got the first sort of responsible for this, this
coordination. I wanted to ask a question: When a band brings an official flag during a service, have a
special meaning?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And the Court can explain what this means?
ANSWER - Yes, the Head of the Public Order.
Q. - Dr. Murgolo had the tricolor sash that night? Because our movies ... not? Is it safe?
ANSWER - No, I was not there, I do not know if it has worn it, when (inaudible) the police do not
(inaudible) I would know if he had worn, I think.
Q. - In any case, this here, (inaudible) then we will see. I'm interested in another passage, so who
leads the gang flag, the tricolor sash as a kind of mayor, is also responsible for Public Order.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Another question. Always as a manager receives, vis ... had no direct contact with it was Director
Murgolo dall'Andreassi, so I think it was not a person of his enturage of his staff.
ANSWER - No, he was there, he was with me.
Q. - No, but earlier in the day ...
ANSWER - (inaudible)
Q. - Ah, the (inaudible). So there are two calls in the end zone that reminded her of the first links,
which are a consequence of information that the manager involved colleague, Dr.. Murgolo the place?

ANSWER - Obviously, I do not know, I was referring to something, in short.

Q. - I do not have any other questions. Thank you.

DEFENSE - Attorney-Romanelli
Q. - Look, I can reconstruct a moment, the moment when you are in police and decide to do an
intervention, leaving out everything that has happened before, so signals, control etc.. etc.. the point
at which it is entrusted to the department of (inaudible) Singers, to do this. What have you told what
you have proposed Singers, what you recommended and how he responded to Singers.
ANSWER - When we gathered at the second meeting, on the one hand there was all the other staff,
officials were preparing, they were discussing, was the other side of the room was Dr. Singers, Dr. La
Barbera and myself. And recommended to, we explained the ...
Q. - in the same room in which I'm sorry ...
ANSWER - Yes We explained to Dr. Canterini what is its function, such as that surrounding the block
and try to do at the first impact and to protect the operating personnel.
Q. - That is, a start-up security.
ANSWER - The safety of the operating staff. Could rain down on the other pitfalls, of course there was
the Mobile Unit, which had the shields for shelter. Ie ... virtually to counter any resistance that might
occur within the (inaudible).
Q. - Well, then you have already put in mind that there could be a drag?
RESPONSE - Any resistance.
Q. - With stone-throwing, with the launch ...
ANSWER - (inaudible)
Q. - Did she tell you now That I do not know.
ANSWER - It is clear that then occurred from what I know, I do not know.
Q. - Were you aware that there was a locked gate, in front of Diaz.
ANSWER - The experience told me that already many times, circumstances, the G8 have made of the
search warrant where there was even some we have not been able to do because (inaudible) we
have thrown stones, we had to turn back.
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - It assumes any resistance.
Q. - I ask, Quaestor, because on page 56 of the interrogation that she has made me think ...
December 16, 2002, at 14 minutes. She says, on page 56, the PM asks the mobile unit (inaudible),
she says, "because the Mobile Unit was to break through the gate," the PM says "yes but no one
knew." "The first impact, the first impact," the PM says "could help (inaudible)" and she continues on, I
said "yes, because the gate, it could happen." So she gave it for granted already, so it was already
aware that there was an attitude of resistance.
ANSWER - No, when Dr. Mortola went to do his job, he was clearly talking (inaudible) of a gate, of,
of ...
Q. - So already imagined some resistance.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So much so that I started to ask, (inaudible) was expected, and so on. etc.. Here, these
recommendations that you, we're referring to, would you have done to Dr. Singers, Singers as you
said.
ANSWER - No, Singers said "no, I will soon, I ... throw tear gas inside, "she told a little 'joke, so, with a
smile, a little'. (Inaudible) with a little 'superficiality, no, I took to La Barbera, and what he said
seriously, but I recommend it without any Molotov cocktails, no, sorry, let's not tear gas inside, very
soft, without creating panic, using a ...
Q. - I do not know if I am a then, since I do not care (inaudible), I do not understand, do you, in your
opinion and La Barbera, throw some tear gas was a more violent that go ..
ANSWER - What is not using their batons.
Q. - Let me finish the question otherwise. If not, the face of resistance, using the strength of clubs?
Maybe I do it to him ... some tears to you seemed much more violent that some truncheon? Why do I
have to understand ...
ANSWER - Yes, right, lawyer. Launch a tear for me, and even perhaps to the Prefect La Barbera,
brings a sense of confusion, bewilderment, panic. Here, in that sense I said, we said "do not launch
tear gas." Then we did a mental, then some theories say that it is better than a tear ... this is another
matter, however, at that moment, the meaning of the answer we gave to Cantarini, it was (inaudible)
of the Prefect La Barbera, who was on my part, the willingness to use peaceful methods. Professor
Singers then he has become convinced of this, is not convinced that we have not.
Q. - But I wonder, that she remembers Singers said "if we throw out all of the tear and the problem
does not arise"
ANSWER - The answer in these terms. The Singers had the logical sense of that, I throw the tear
gas ...
Q. - So there was definitely going to do violence? Here, we are still on this point. She remembers that
the men were divided into two teams Singers? Before doing the operation?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - You do not remember a team that was dispelled when Dr. Mortola said (inaudible).
ANSWER - So not. Now yes.
Q. - Why is there an article of our policies that come to support the forces that pass under the
command of then Police Headquarters where they operate.
ANSWER - I correct myself, Lawyer. I do not remember who had made two teams, one from the
commander ... one headed by Mortola, Brand, and an official of the (inaudible) of the Flying Squad,
another (inaudible) officer of the Flying Squad, (inaudible). I do not remember the fact, in particular,
that the Mobile Unit is divided into two, a little 'with a little one' with each other. This can not
remember. I was not aware of this.
Q. - But are you aware that the mobile units then operate under the leadership
ANSWER - Absolutely.
Q. - As an official of the police headquarters in which they operate.
ANSWER - Absolutely.
Q. - Of course. So we can assume, however, that when the men arrived in front of the Diaz Singers
were led by some official who referred, or who was on duty in the police headquarters in Genoa?
RESPONSE - In theory yes.
Q. - No, in theory, what does it mean?
RESPONSE - In theory yes. If I'm going to make public policy, (inaudible) the mobile unit of Venice, is
entrusted to the official.
Q. - Very well.
ANSWER - If then the Mobile Unit is something that has not had to do ...
Q. - No, I had asked this question. I asked if this was under the command of officers of the police
headquarters in Genoa.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you know if there Singers went on site.
ANSWER - Singers went on site.
Q. - He went there. Are you aware of ... why. I told him ...
REPLY - But then I know that at one point I spoke with La Barbera, a thing, in other words. Singers I
guess he was on the spot, was on the site.
Q. - Beyond the sentiment of which you spoke earlier, namely that when there is an operation, you
also say this form of interest, respect, to go and see what happens while you place the ' operation. If
Singers did not go there, would have done something, would fail in his task, his duty, or is forced to
go?
ANSWER - If you ordered (inaudible), is obliged to go.
Q. - So, I've asked the question first, if she knows and she said yes, that men have operated under
the command of two officers of the police headquarters in Genoa. If men have operated under the
command of two officers of the police headquarters in Genoa have operated under the command of
Singers! There is a contradiction.
ANSWER - I was not there. I can only say that if (inaudible) have been grouped with the Singers, who
were to take action to say, in quotes, breakthrough, it is clear that there was Canterini, there must be
some other officer of the Police Headquarters. (Inaudible) If, but she says that the staff was split in
two, one with Dr. Mortola, another (inaudible) or dependent by Mortola, and other officials.
Q. - Very well. So ..
ANSWER - I, perhaps ...
Q. - If we assume that.
ANSWER - (fuorimicrofono) worked independently or has been employed by another official.
However, I always repeat the above discussion, there is always the Doctor. Murvolo which would also
see a couple 'situation.
Q. - So, (inaudible) that are divided into two teams, peaceful, and then, if you (inaudible) anyway. So
peaceful that the men had to respond to the two officials Singers who were (inaudible) the police. So
the presence of the Singers who will definitely was, as she concludes, and as I confirm them, was
certainly not to direct the operation. Was to assist, if (inaudible) that were present.
ANSWER - Excuse me, when Singers, sorry, to clarify the matter to the Court well. Singers
recommend to use a system rather than another, because the Singers have said to his men, that is, I
mean ...
Q. - We've already passed (inaudible) but I mean, is not what I meant, I meant the close operation is
set, ordered by the two officials.
ANSWER - That's the rule.
Q. - That is the rule, fine. Since you introduced me, even before the speech that the Singers had
spoken with La Barbera, are you aware that Dr. La Barbera, the first death was felt by prosecutors, if
they have ever known, and he reported that once the teams arrive in front of the Diaz school, and
once he arrived, given the situation.
Prosecutor-Pumpkin-Doctor is suing the contents of an interrogation of a person who has not yet been
acquired in these acts. And 'correct I wonder?
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - I'm wondering if it has knowledge of a thing, if I say it is not.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE - overlapping voices ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - President, what does this mean that the day that the Public Ministry will
do us the honor of producing the statement of Dr. La Barbera died, that day I will call again to ask if it
Quaestor Colucci was aware of?
PRESIDENT - Theoretically yes, but ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - Very well. Then do so. I'm sorry, I'll call you back, how do you not have to
charge me the responsibility.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE - overlapping voices ...

Q. - (inaudible) she is able to reconstruct or at least, to explain how they were equipped men of
Singers, those of the Mobile Unit?
ANSWER - No, I do not remember.
Q. - I do not know. So to talk about her jacket, vest, sweater is the same thing?
ANSWER - No, no, I do not remember what to bring, as a department is a bit 'specialist, I can not
remember exactly.
Q. - It is not difficult, for the love of God, you have many uniforms.
ANSWER - How is the currency of the Mobile Unit, the one with the sweater ...
Q. - As the prosecution continued to play on the sweater, not the sweater, I say, I mean, she is unable
to rebuild, all the equipment?
ANSWER - (inaudible) boots, a pair of pants, He's got a cotton sweater with leather reinforcements
and then He's got a jacket.
Q. - And a bodice?
ANSWER - It is a bodice, yes.
Q. - What is bullet-proof, anti ...
ANSWER - A second surgery.
Q. - Of course, she remembers that night as they were equipped, right?
ANSWER - I have not seen, I've seen (inaudible) and that's it.
Q. - When she speaks of having seen, having been contacted by Lucera Singers and probably, if she
remembers him to see the jacket or vest or both or what?
ANSWER - I think both the bodice.
Q. - The bodice. Do you remember, I think you said that maybe I'm not even come into his office, but
they may have met in the corridor.
ANSWER - (inaudible) in the corridor.
Q. - Since you have been repeatedly asked by the prosecutor if he was wearing or not wearing, if she
remembers to do it was to see the port, or if she had the body still in Lucera?
ANSWER - I would not be wrong, however, there was more in the body. I think I saw it, I would not be
wrong, I do not remember exactly.
Q. - When you can place this time of meeting with the doctor Singers.
ANSWER - Well it has been over one night.
Q. - Yes, more or less short. I do, to explain to her.
REPLY - But the action also 4.00, 5.00 am ...
Q. - You have the Diaz school that many objects were seized.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - In addition to the bottles, sticks, bags, wallets, boxcutters. As someone assumes that the bodice
had been put in objects that were then the subject of the arrest, I am referring to the question: Is it
safe to have seen wearing or has seen between objects, then, was taken from objects?
ANSWER - I do not think I ever saw him in pieces, the objects seized.
Q. - So you say he does not remember seeing it in pieces. In my view he had on him, he is sure of
this or e. ..
ANSWER - That is a finding shown separately, not together a. ..
Q. - No, no, I'm not talking about the moment in which these objects are taken to police headquarters.

ANSWER - No, I (inaudible) together with those objects. (Inaudible) all of this alone.
Q. - Here, he has seen outside of these objects?
ANSWER - Outside (inaudible).
Q. - Very well. Okay, now she tells me that in fact what has been shown that the bodice was hard,
what was under his jacket and sweater as she tried to insinuate the Public Ministry.
PRESIDENT - Mr. me comments ... I've called several times. Do not make them.
PROSECUTOR - Every so often escapes me. One tries to control himself but mica can always be in
control. However I think I did the questions that did not do to anyone, so he was not repetitive. Even
for me, which to me is that demand does not give me a proof of existence, are not Cartesian, the
question then I exist, I ask the question because I think it's useful. I have finished, thank you.
CHAIRMAN - There are other questions, do not. No question.
PROSECUTOR - Yes, I'd still have it, but if you (inaudible) want to enter, you may prevent requests for
clarification.
PRESIDENT - But the things we wanted to know we were mainly these: If when he learned of Molotov
cocktails, which were found to Diaz, she has been indicated in some way? Where they were found
and by whom?
ANSWER - have been found in other searches Granittello from inside the Diaz school.
PRESIDENT - The school consists of four floors, has not been told anything, nor where or by whom.
Neither she knew then?
ANSWER - I heard after the discovery of Molotov cocktails. That is, I knew immediately.
PRESIDENT - The discovery (inaudible) the body, but the precise place and the person who found
them was not listed.
ANSWER - No.
PRESIDENT - You already know that in the afternoon other petrol bombs had been found in other
places?
ANSWER - Yes, perhaps I had known. Then news came as the police station. It's a story, then that is
not going to see more of it.
PRESIDENT - Someone had told her that had been found.
ANSWER - Yes.
PRESIDENT - Perhaps it was that Dr. Donnini had ...
ANSWER - No.
PRESIDENT - It was not him.
ANSWER - Was it the cabinet office here, the office of Cabinet.
PRESIDENT - At the meeting where you decided to intervene in practice, then someone has
expressed some concern that this raid happen at night?
ANSWER - I do not remember.
CHAIRMAN - Do not you remember?
ANSWER - I do not think why ... at night these were taken by helicopter with lighthouse-like systems,
such as electric generator. So this confusion ...
PRESIDENT - It was not expressed by anyone.
ANSWER - You know, (inaudible) was in it. It's not that then, many times, (inaudible) there for more
words. (Inaudible) because if something had happened, I would have discussed, because there I am,
yes it is true that I argued about everything that was possible to find the point of agreement of all our
ideas, we say.
PRESIDENT - When Dr. Di Bernardini said the patrol attacked, even if the reported details of the
assault.
REPLY - But if I remember the attack with rocks, kicking the machine, threats.
PRESIDENT - Some men hit, hurt someone, someone ...
ANSWER - No, I do not remember.
PRESIDENT - I do not remember him. Damage to the cars?
ANSWER - surely damage. Stones and definitely kicking. But I described a scene very ...
PRESIDENT - Remember this more or less aggression toward that now occurred?
ANSWER - Yes, the attack could have occurred, since there too there was a discussion about the
time ... at half past eight in the evening. I remember it was summer and I remember that it was still
daylight.
PRESIDENT - And the patrol was formed knows?
ANSWER - The patrol was formed was made up of more patrols, were two or three of our crews.
PRESIDENT - That is, two or three cars?
RESPONSE - Two or three cars, yes.
PRESIDENT - Well, Mr. Bernardini was present when this happened or been reported?
ANSWER - No, he was the President, such a person told me: we were not attacked. Instead, it was
not, was not present Caldarozzi. I thought that at first too ... But no. Bernardini was that he told the
Caldarozzi and then together they came to me.
Q. - Okay, thanks. If there are ... Please.

PROSECUTOR DR. PUMPKIN

Prosecutor: DR. PUMPKIN -
Q. - Yes, I raise this last question that the President has done, because it was the theme that had left
a little 'aside. Now I realize (relatively) because, and let's get back on the record, a report by Dr. Di
Bernardini, we say that is part of the documents seized, stating that this incident of aggression
occurred at 22 and 30 and so all acts, arrest reports, which refer to this report, the shooting schedule
of 22 and 30, now she has given a clarification, a location other than temporary. From other data
actually revealed a different location. She has hinted at a debate in the House Committee
nominiamola escaped as they actually conflict with the theme of time you put the documents, here.
Now you can actually say why he pointed to, a timetable is given to the acts of a certain type and then
other elements ...
ANSWER - Why has the wrong person who made the report. I remember exactly ... I've always been
(pun) ... 10:30 p.m. to aggression because it meant that I was in my office at 11. The eleven is already
night, but remember that the day was ending. Then placed into the episode because the 20 and 30
hips, 20 and 30 the episode, I would have done at nine (inaudible) I'm at nine and a half ten on
Donnini and I was finishing dinner. This is my ... My ... My logical discourse, we say.
Q. - Here, however, to understand, given that multiple elements are inferred a different time. She said
now half past eight.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, at about 20 and 30. Yes.
Q. - Can you be more specific or to say, denies what was officially stated that there are 22 and 30 and
as a reference to say ...
ANSWER - No, I believe that the time is just what I say. Deny of course, at the same time deny what
was said because I remember that it was still daylight. That is, when they were in my office, there was
still daylight, so ...
Q. - Here excuse though. The chain of errors and then plays that followed, is a chain that starts from
the report of Dr. Di Bernardini. That is your opinion of Dr. Bernardini is the plural that by then it did
incur his explanation to this
ANSWER - Here I think so, my explanation is the one.
Q. - You have been heard, I know I would not mention, but this location of the 10:30 p.m. held until he
could. Here, then something else.
ANSWER - No, and then when I heard in Parliament, there had to be clarified, I remember I made
sure to deepen One moment we say the time and remembered that it was day.
Q. - But she (inaudible) move a little further back, perfect.
ANSWER - (inaudible) coincided various assumptions, right? The scene.
Q. - We made it clear to other lines, but actually there was a contrast with what the documents say, I
also mentioned that it was the wrong time phonogram. What I did see before. I wanted a while back
on some preliminary questions that I had, in its reply to the questions that have defended some of the
specific positions, she gave answers rather dry. I would like to know if these responses rather dry now
remember them, are (inaudible), how to tell clarification with respect to the integration range of
answers but I thought she had given during his examination. That is, so to speak, the question of the
defender of Dr. Montella says, has confirmed that Dr. Luperi, given the presence of his immediate
superior, the prefect of La Barbera, had little independent decision-making, here. This is what she
said. So to a specific question of the direct defense of Dr. Grattieri, but Dr. Grattieri has pressed, she
said no, I was not pressed. And where she said if I mistake not, well, if the highest-ranking, ie, the first
deputy chief vicar of Police (inaudible), he said no, well, everybody went home. That is, in the sense
that the highest expression of the chain of command, would have a veto power to say (inaudible) to
block a decision. And 'this correct?
ANSWER - For my part, yes it is correct (overlapping voices).
Q. - I want to understand if the answer she gave to questions that have been made, results from these
considerations or accurate historical facts and that is: when was said and asked several times today
myself of that period to which used her in several reports made it clear that stemmed from a form of
environmental pressure. When she was asked to specify who has not within yourself, I think, limited to
only the pressure in quotes because that would take away superiors any discussion, but has outlined
an active role of several people present there and in particular an active role Dr. Gratteri, Dr.
Caldarozzi, she also referred to Di Bernardini official (attacked) and a role for its technical and
professional authority of Dr. Luperi. These are the people that you have specifically named.
DEFENSE: Lawyer Corini - President I'm sorry, that's fine if I indicates the challenge, because the
premise of the Public Ministry is clear, that does not have decision-making autonomy means that if I
would be at odds, has announced the Public Ministry in minutes.
PROSECUTOR - Page 11 for example.
DEFENSE: Lawyer Corini - I apologize, I acknowledge and I think that is correct.
PROSECUTOR - but please read it, please read it where there is (inaudible) for the Court.
DEFENSE: Corini Lawyer - If you give me time, then: I asked the witness his response in decision-
making autonomy and then subjected subordinates do not have any decision-making autonomy with
respect to higher-level, can be placed with the line of responses that I have given before? And I repeat
all.
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - no president, there is opposition to this question, the witness
(inaudible) specific, can not seek an opinion on how you place a line of response, and then be
examined on a fact. Is there objection to the application as well as (inaudible).
PROSECUTOR - Excuse me President, delivered a challenge than ... if the dispute is to be read,
so ...
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - Among other things the President, the opposition to complete,
remember to myself that we review. 498 The third paragraph allows the deposition of only the new
questions, ie questions that have not been the main examination, otherwise one would an
examination of the main 30 / 2, would shift the cross examination and then defend it. Therefore, a limit
of 498 third paragraph is that the questions must have the novelty than the exam, you are insisting on
time on what has been the subject of the examination, there is opposition to President, thank you.
PRESIDENT - (inaudible) on the dispute on the facts agree, disagree on the latter also because the
witness is also indicated as a witness of the defense, so at this time has the dual role of also-
examination Public Ministry. So I think this is ... regarding the dispute, if anything Let's read it.
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - Since I am (inaudible) I've already done, I thought (overlapping
voices), that's fine. Once in a while you can be a bit more loyal and to end. The message received,
(inaudible).
PROSECUTOR - The next time we do a segment so all we are less tired, because we're pulling from
a lot. Then, when I asked if the pressure in quotes that do not want to specify more, bystanders, all
present, was only by the most senior, when the Prefect and Prefect Andreassi La Barbera, okay, she
made it clear that this version was by all, virtually, then, who ask? Who knew ...
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - Page Excuse?
PROSECUTOR - 31. Who could ask press it? You tell us yes or no, (inaudible) I saw that said, the
Prefect has confirmed Barbera, then: Andreassi could press it? La Barbera was pressing, we see that
kind of pressure. Dr. Colucci was virtually the decision was taken unanimously, to make interventions
that almost (inaudible) by all. La Barbera, Andreassi, Caldarozzi and Grattieri and all other officials
who were in the office. The PM says to her, but I can not think of the Questor (inaudible) feel
pressured by Di Bernardini, that says: tell me who the others. No, no Bernardini. Excuse me, is the
expression of Caldarozzi Grattieri. Bernardini at the time (inaudible) the terms of Grattieri, (inaudible)
expressions, for example, also (inaudible) expressions of Barbera, I mean, it's all a group of people
who decide at that time to make (inaudible). The environmental situation was such that, the PM I'm
giving the name and surname of each person, (should) say who has expressed, as it were, a
pressure, a determined stance, a firm position taken by all of them do (inaudible ). It is taken by all, I
say (inaudible).
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - (inaudible) I'm sorry President, introduced in cross examination about
the circumstances where the contrast? Luperi looks at a location, and expression of the same Luperi
Barbera. When I asked the questions to the (inaudible), let's see just highlight this. That has an
expression, how do you say that there is contrast, at the opening of the application over another.
(Overlapping voices)
Prosecutor - If you do not finish and does not expect his turn is impossible. So I contend that the
answer to the witness and ask questions, the short answer: in that context did not Luperi decision-
making autonomy, is belied by the answers he gave earlier. So given that the two are not together, I'm
asking the witness if ...
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - But can not (inaudible) the President, can say so if it is not true. He
never asked, did the prosecution of an application Luperi.
PROSECUTOR - President, I do not think you can anticipate the discussions on the evaluation of
questions and answers, (overlapping voices) to finish the conversation because even if you do not
have the patience to finish them all, to make them a speech, not nell'intermezzo can step in and
challenge it. It is not correct, not correct.
PRESIDENT - The point of dispute concerns the question of Luperi, which I do not think there are,
however, contrasts with what he said.
PROSECUTOR - I asked the witness if there was an active role in that context, not only of his
superiors, but also of others, including Luperi, Gratteri Caldarozzi, whose activity has been described
differently in the responses of the Public Ministry, this active role, this chorus, each with its own
specificity, confirm yes or no. This is the problem. (Inaudible) there is a contradiction, because you
can not say if the Prefect Andreassi says no, you (send) at home at all. (Inaudible) for this logical, or
historical, that is the problem.
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - But how can not say, but where is the contradiction President, excuse
me.
PRESIDENT - The witness can tell us if what you said now the Public Ministry.
ANSWER - Yes, Mr. President, a speech that has a ... I'd like to be superintendent of Genoa
institutional reference, which is the prefect and the prefect Andreassi La Barbera, and those are key
points for me. Everything else was pressing ... in theory ... I mean that everything else, there were up
to me at some point because if Luperi ...
PROSECUTOR - But am I that I said that what you're saying, I questioned the contrary. She said the
opposite record of what he says now.
PRESIDENT - He wants to finish please?
ANSWER - If Dr. Luperi, in that context says: (inaudible), let us arm ourselves and we did not realize
why the search was the Prefect of La Barbera.
PROSECUTOR - But she said the opposite ...
PRESIDENT - Let's talk about the witness until he has finished.
ANSWER - I'm sorry at all, in every ... everyone ... Caldarozzi, er ... Dr. Gratteri clear, having been ...
was certainly not happy that a farm worker, a member of a squad was attacked. Of course he also
had a surge of anger.
PROSECUTOR - But that jolt. Dr. Gratteri who is willing to suggest immediate action. Suggest, not to
intervene.
PRESIDENT - We want to let it speak for the witness. So every minute if there is an intervention on
the head, I close the hearing and resume tomorrow, okay? Please.
PROSECUTOR - I'm saying that these considerations, considerations that appear to me ...
(Inaudible), I stepped in this, I believe that logical considerations, do not intermarry with the historical
fact that she reminded me that in that context there were also these fine officers, who, though not his
superiors, weighed to their personal authority.
REPLY - But surely that weighed for ...
Q. - From what you described, you have described, the press and when she says ...
DEFENSE: Lawyer Di Bugno - please President, to intervene to protect a witness who can not speak.
PRESIDENT - Public Ministry has asked the question, let the witness answer, because otherwise we
can no longer understand anything. And the witness has begun to respond, if they do not stop ...
ANSWER - Certainly the presence of those officials, senior officials of the department had their own
weight. So the expression that was made by Dr. Luperi, Dr. Gratteri had weight, but not that much,
because after I got myself instinctively ... intervene. Then there are all blocked and test a little 'data,
facts. But is not that Dr. Caldarozzi or Dr. Luperi wanted to intervene at all costs, it was a start, it is
human, we all of us, now we check the facts, then the data, that's all. Things are different if Dr.
Caldarozzi said he wanted to intervene by force, Dr. Caldarozzi you should shut up because I had no
problem doing what I was saying, while I more trouble against the prefect of La Barbera.
PROSECUTOR - I understood, but these are things of his (inner hole). If I'm telling you, I deny that
you have described her, (or role) that is different, not on whether it was logical. Now you are saying
things logical, but not what happened. And I challenged.
(Overlapping voices)
CHAIRMAN - Do you want to all stay silent? Then there was an objection to the prosecutor who has
read the minutes, that's fine. In that report it states that everyone has had some influence in this and
the prosecutor is asking the witness whether or verbal confirmation that says otherwise. The witness
is responding and let him answer, because otherwise we do not end here ever again.
ANSWER - The influences of those officials who have had to respond as it says in the report, has had
its effectiveness, because I have not taken into account, where appropriate, those statements of those
officials, so much so that after it was decided to make all investigations. It 'clear that the human
impulse is to act, to attack, to give an answer, but I can not remember exactly, though I have already
said it definitely was. I will not pull back the allegations already made in its time but I want to say later,
later, when the determination was made, it was decided unanimously in the intervention. And if in that
context, the Prefect or Andrea La Barbera said in a way for me to say was, was an established fact
that I had to do it, or rather to the contrary, if the thing could be said or Cantarozzi or Luperi.
Prosecutor - Mr. Colucci, I understand. But if you say here today, not that it seems to have said, at the
request of myself and Bar (inaudible) that the Doctors x, y and Polito, have counted for nothing,
nothing and counted Tom and Dick, I Answer I take it because she is a witness, but I do (inaudible)
that is not what he said then. Enough. I mean, I do not want them to say or keep to one thing or
another, I want you to be clear on this point. And can not nobody take away from the head, that the
sentence you said, it's the other (overlapping voices).
PRESIDENT - Then, there was the challenge, we read the record, if you want to acquire it, if you
agree, otherwise leave it where it is and (inaudible) say that there is no (inaudible).
DEFENSE: - Look No President. On the agreement mean one thing: the (inaudible) last on, since the
prosecutor has refused to notice the position of Guaglione, you know ... I do (inaudible) please, so she
breaks the guardian? Do you mind? You know that I will not hand over the Defense consent to the use
of anything we asked why the act, there has been given, we treasure it. From now on, this defense
does not give consent to any more the use of instruments that come from their office. Thank you.
PRESIDENT - I do not think it's a very constructive, but it is an attitude ...
(Overlapping voices)
PROSECUTOR - President, however, the point is this. Excuse me Luperi Defense: If the report is
introduced, it will be better, only for the sake I say, that is exactly the words that are deemed contrary,
if I may.
PRESIDENT - You have read, are recorded so I do not think ...
Prosecutor - We are sure that full was read, there is overlap is also important because two words. We
want to read it?
PRESIDENT - We on the agreement, enter that part of the record, and we can choose the pages
where you insert the context of the topic pressures.
Prosecutor - No, you enter a dispute, without any kind of (inaudible)
DEFENSE: Lawyer BUGNO - No, but I have fished in those ten pages, if you want the background
(inaudible). I have read almost everything virtually, that is, whether he wants the environment, the
limited clarity on this ..
Prosecutor - For the Defense Luperi give consent because on page 32 and page 33, where the
complaint is made, where a challenge is made a statement that it believes that this is in contrast: "No,
sorry Di Bernardini , Calderozzi the expression of (inaudible), Di Bernardini at that time was the
expression of Gratteri, are the expressions we say, for example, also the same Luperi expression of
Barbera. That is to say, it's all a group of people who decide at that time to do the searching. " This
piece read, (inaudible) this thing in the morning.
DEFENSE: BUGNO Lawyer - Is not this, not that piece.
DEFENSE: BUGNO Attorney - So what? What? You read this. Excuse defender Luperi be patient but
I've read several.
PROSECUTOR - I make a proposal. On page 28. I can write a proposal? On page 28 of the report,
we introduce the first challenge, ie: "we were pressed to do so from others" and asks: "Mr.
Commissioner, what he meant?" On page 28.
DEFENSE: BUGNO Lawyer - President, I would like you to invite the prosecutor to re-read the section
that believes in dispute and believe that all disputes, so much so that she has already said it has been
stated in the minutes. Because to me was what I read, I is not (inaudible) that is no longer that. So
please, if you invite the Public Prosecutor, for the time to reread the part of the report which has so far
considered in dispute and under which they were made a number of questions to the witness. If you
can invite to this defense as it turns out to be page 32, and the piece I read. While the prosecution
says that this is not the part. So if I want to reread the part that believes in dispute, which has
repeatedly highlighted in a stark contrast with the statements made today.
PROSECUTOR - Look again, and if she wants me to say something that I do not want, can not do it.
So my suggestion is: from page 28 to page 38 you ...
PRESIDENT - I'm sorry but it is useless to continue down this line, our Chancellor will tell us what is
the objection, that page is, at what point is.
(Overlapping voices)
(Off microphone)
PRESIDENT - Page 31 and 32 minutes. If you want to acquire the gain on the agreement, otherwise
there is registration, so all we had to be there.
DEFENSE: Lawyer BUGNO - It 'clear, however, that this was the complaint made and the contrast
must be with that. That is.
PRESIDENT - We agree, if someone ...
Prosecutor - No President, not what I asked. I renounce to ask what I wanted to ask if there is
recording I quoted a page of the record, so I've done it before, I was not given the time, because I
have my limits even to reread all physical disputes. You want everything at once, I wanted to make a
proposal to acquire those ten pages in which there are all challenges that during this examination I
made long, so it is not accepted, all right. We will be recording, but I think if the Court wants to
understand the point, understand it beyond our skirmishes and our things. Full stop
CHAIRMAN - Okay. If you do not agree on this production of ten pages (inaudible), no. Then you do
not acquire, if there are other questions we can free the heads. There are other questions? Very well.
Can go, thanks for coming and good night now.
PM DR. PUMPKIN - we quote the President as well as Dr. Murgolo, which is the 210, we will ask
ourselves if we cite at the hearing, we do not know if they should be, whether it will respond, we
accept the risk at the hearing as saying, however, however, we do not require the presence in the
classroom, in the sense that if there stood the Doctor Mugello would ask that as a witness, as 210 is
still here in court to declare her will in short. The quote for the hearing of 10 but with a proviso that if ...
we do not know ...
PRESIDENT - But for the nine what? There? Very well. And then we affixed affixed so to speak. Okay.
See you Wednesday at 9 and 30.

This report consists of total characters (including spaces): 275,659

This report was prepared by Meeting service spa
The Auxiliary Technical: Andrea Di Martino