DEPOSITION OF THE ACCUSED - MICHELANGELO FOURNIER -

The defendant, RECEIVED WARNINGS OF THE THIRD PARAGRAPH IN

ARTICLE 64 OF THE CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, YOU ARE HEREBY
ANSWER.
GENERAL ': Michelangelo Fournier, born in Rome on July 29, 1963.
PRESIDENT - You elect domicile?
ANSWER - At my home via Rome Alfredo Casella, 11 and also confirm the
appointment of the Advocate Rinaldo Romanelli.

Prosecutor: DR. CARDONA

Q. - So Dr. Fournier to come when you become aware of being involved in

an operation, which will be the operation of a raid at the school Pascoli -
Diaz Aspertini the evening of July 21, 2001. How did you learn of the need
for you and your men to go there, if you remember those who gave
instructions to that effect and what kind of provisions received?
ANSWER - Absolutely. On that day I do: a short introduction we had
stopped working at around half 8 and up down and around from dawn to
21:30 brings us to a casual restaurant that had been set up at at the fair
and around ... between 21:30 and 21:45, the Master Singers was called by
Dr. Donnini, Commander Canterini then came to me and said: "There is a
need to bring together people immediately, because it has been
identified, reported an artifact , a medium in which they seem to have
found shelter much of the insurrectionary anarchists "and said that, not
even eaten a meal that we had not eaten for more even at lunch, we
returned to the ships and with some difficulty recovered several men the
"Seventh Unit" because some were not quite all, had been injured during
the incidents of the previous day and this operation lasted about half an
hour, we had no additional specific, specific addresses, we had no
indication of any kind and in the first instance we came together in what I
believe is Piazzale Kennedy, that the area immediately in front of the
fairgrounds. This is the first step.
Q. - Yes, when they are given these provisions, are given as, that her role
played in the "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - I was the Commander of the "Seventh Unit."
Q. - was the commander. And what kind of rules are the exact dates,
because she spoke of a raid in a manufactured occupied by
insurrectionary anarchists.
ANSWER - Yes, of course you did here, I want to specify, along with others,
to other official institutions Members of this type of activity (inaudible).
Q. - Hm, but the specificity of your job?
ANSWER - No, no absolutely no kind of specificity, there had been a, a
briefing of action because it had all been chosen in the wake of urgency, I
had no other information on this can be categorical, if not to unite men, as
usual for the department.
Q. - What has passed? She was the subject?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - In the "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - per team.
Q. - What were the team leaders. What has he sent to his subordinates as
operational guidelines?
REPLY - But I just, basically I have grouped them and I explained that there
could be an operation of some kind. But did not get into too much detail
because they would be too arbitrary for other details because I did not
know. There was the possibility of an intervention, in a manufactured
product in a structure occupied illegally, if necessary, it would function in
the manner typical of the mobile unit, but I did not give further addresses
because they obviously unknown.
Q. - Look, when she was asked, was asked this question, however, she
spoke of this when the team heads to transmit organizational information,
even minimum had to say something?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You said, absolutely the same things, but also added a note that
perhaps the concern that the intervention had to run with great speed,
correct?
ANSWER - The speed was to prepare to get there, the speed was not
related to that operation. The speed was to find, to find staff, this was the
speed.
Q. - There was so urgent?
ANSWER - Yes, there was absolutely urgent.
Reference - organization?
ANSWER - So at least it was presented. With some, I must tell the truth in
situations of public policy require a certain excitement in the force is quite
usual, nothing we say it goes beyond the ordinary law and order, but there
was urgency.
Q. - And what operational advice you have given, at least to make you
able to locate the target and how well?
RESPONSE - None.
Q. - And how did you manage to come closer to the objective.
ANSWER - We Here then, continuing in the second phase, once
raggruppatici outside, Piazzale Kennedy, then we brought, we brought
outside the police station, the core was divided into two groups. A group
with the captain and a manager, I presume the manager of Digos and I
with the other group with an official of Digos not know the name, I
remember now had a theme song, however, was an officer.
Q. - Do you remember the acronym?
ANSWER - Now ... is the file anyway.
Q. - Delta 4 him the context to the minutes.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, it was an acronym.
Q. - The minutes of the September 2001 page 9 to be exact.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes it was a symbol is plausible.
Q. - Do you remember that physically, he also described, also gave a
description.
ANSWER - Yes, brown is not too high.
Q. - So, this officer is in charge of Digos in the column?
ANSWER - the column ...
Q. - of which she belonged.
ANSWER - Yes, and I have not received, I have not even received by this
officer further qualification of any kind, I ask him, I saw that ... almost, I
had the impression of being pushy, I said "Okay let's see what it is"
probably too unknown in detail.
Q. - So the signs, however, that you had already had it for what it said
were the first ones to break into an occupied building?
ANSWER - Yes, to prepare a ... a ... that there would be a break-in, not
necessarily that this raid would be made by us, here is this I want to
clarify that there would be a break-in, presumably.
QUESTION - How do you coordinate its column with the official reference?
ANSWER - It was on board with me, was on board with me, half the police
and the journey has been and I do not know if it was later fitted with a
radio that used in Core, which was a radio that works naturally on
frequencies of the Police Headquarters, as we all know but it was an
apparatus that we use with the larigonfono the "Seventh Unit" had given
him.
Q. - Dr. Founier how many teams have come with the part, with the
column?
ANSWER - With me were three teams if I remember correctly.
Q. - So three teams with her, how many teams were around? In "Seventh
core"?
ANSWER - If I am not mistaken there were six teams that night or ...
seven, seven, three of course with my own.
Q. - I mean the other four and then with the other column?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Where was also present Dr. Canterini?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - As you approach the school building? In particular I am interested in
which way? Since you split in two? Why? Why I do not know if it specified?
ANSWER - The grounds, the reasons, why it was done this way, the
diversification of the unknown. And now I would have difficulty accurately,
then I do not know Genoa difficult to reconstruct the path. We arrived, in
any case, Diaz by placing the main entrance, reached from the right, from
the right side and made a path about 300 meters, 250 meters because
the media left them on a pitch if I remember correctly, which is just about
250 meters was below. There, we got behind and we have addressed this
official.
Q. - Look But when she was heard in September 2001 spoke of a pincer
movement?
ANSWER - Yes because a pincer movement, because the other team, the
other team had reached the other side. If this is Diaz, basically, in
essence, a group came from here and came across a group.
Q. - So you came to the right of the building?
ANSWER - Yes, looking at the school.
Q. - Looking at the gate? And that situation met when he arrived?
ANSWER - So us when we arrived, when we arrived was the stage where
they were forcing the outer gate with a truck. That was the ...
Q. - You said that you have arrived on foot building?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - That means that you have followed brought him here after?
ANSWER - They had been, came later. I honestly do not know where they
are then further positions. We arrived there on foot.
Q. - Um so she was able to see the phase of the breakthrough of the gate?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes.
Q. - When he arrived she was breaking?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, they were ... was underway.
Q. - So what happened after that?
ANSWER - Following is here, there occurred the first observation, that I
could make the first observation, because in essence there was a lot of
people already in place. Many departments of various kinds, there was a
lot of police forces, police rather huge.
Q. - Excuse me, this seemed strange?
ANSWER - Well, yes I really do not ... already the scenario was completely
different from what I had imagined. I imagined a warehouse, a group of
houses abandoned and instead it was a school. I mean then, at least
compared to what I imagined I was going to have to face such situation if
for no other logistics eh was not that of a school, and then find that all
personnel.
Q. - But you first said you were acting in aid to other police forces?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, but not ...
Q. - So you had to wait to find other people?
REPLY - But not so many, not so many and in any case, we have found this
crowd of policemen and literally there at some point in my functions have
begun to be complicated to distinguish themselves, because we once it
has been broken statements inside the gate we, in the schoolyard.
Q. - Have you certificates do you mean?
ANSWER - Well we have entered into the hall?
Q. - Oh, did you get?
ANSWER - We have entered into the hall and I must say the truth, now we
have lost the command line because we did not see more than the
manager there, (inaudible) started to see more Police Officers, and
sincerely ehhh ... The situation was complicated.
Q. - I'm sorry, but she has not received an order to intervene then?
ANSWER - No, I have not personally received any order, nor was the
"seventh core" that has received it directly, they heard an order is
manifestly "Open doors", but was not addressed to me or to the nucleus.
Q. - And to whom?
ANSWER - It was addressed to the plurality, the plurality of the policemen
who were there.
Q. - Oh, okay, but there was also diversity in her and her?
ANSWER - Sure.
Q. - Well then it was extended to you?
ANSWER - Yes.
Questions - all of them?
ANSWER - To all.
Q. - What?
REPLY - Even.
Q. - Well certainly not if she was there for mica with its core?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - I order when I speak, I speak of an order for staff who are doing
clearly, as you have got to realize, a breaking into a building. The order
was given then, as you confirmed, moreover, in its previous report and
now she has reported an order to open the building?
ANSWER - Yes, to enter inside.
Q. - Um, what did you then with his men?
REPLY - So you have created, as I already mentioned several times,
immediately a crowd to two ... the two gates, to the central and the left
one, and it was very laborious able to open the door, especially what
came to be opened first, the middle, which was open if I remember
correctly only one door. At that point, at which point police officers of all
the divisions are crowded to the doors and I got stuck in it to go directly to
perceive what was happening.
Q. - Look you remember, before he gave some emphasis to the presence
of very personal, much more than what you might expect, he said, spoke
and also belonging to other departments. What departments were
represented at that time, in the courtyard in front of the school?
ANSWER - I definitely remember the police personnel, personnel with bibs,
Crime Prevention Unit personnel, personnel from other parts of furniture
that ...
Q. - Staff of the Police Headquarters which means please?
ANSWER - Eh police personnel who wore the bibs, which were presumably
those, because they were not classified departments ...
Q. - You first ...
ANSWER - What then there were other bodies ...
Q. - I'm sorry she first said that his column has been entrusted to an
official for instance Digos?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And the other column to the Director of Digos Genoa.?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - There were also the Digos was also represented in the courtyard?
ANSWER - I know this does not tell him, do not have written this in the
face.
Q. - Well on this but she was a bit 'more accurate because you said,
always in the minutes that I have mentioned before the September 21,
2001, page 13 of his transcripts quote: "The presence of managers was
very relevant, not that we Digos officials were the simple, in reality, if I
may, it is seen that there was something else, began to break through this
"and then there were the managers?
REPLY - Of course.
Q. - Do not just of Digos but also of other departments? That is the other,
the ... what action you took then continue taking the answer to the
question that I did.
ANSWER - Yes, as Commander of the force, I thought of having to go
inside to check the work of men who still institutionally Members were
available to officials, the commander of the force still has an obligation
always to follow, to see that all track, and then I struggled very much to
come because you shunned, then the images speak for themselves, I
struggled to get inside the door, because there were items that prevented
access, ie when Access will then review ... override ...
Q. - You were on the main door?
ANSWER - Yes, the main entrance. There have been lost, I think almost
two minutes, groped for the door to access and correct that at that
moment I had so few men in my department, but there was also other
staff with bib with white belts, that is stranger to my staff.
Q. - where she was at the time the door? Where were you?
ANSWER - I was close, I was very close.
Q. - Was?
ANSWER - I was in a first instance, the interrogation I was told I could be
seventh, eighth and then, however, even at the end of the interrogation,
the interrogation had said that the exact location, reviewing the images
that I had never seen, was re-valued, that that was not given, then the
given mnemonic was not supported but the image that suggests to me
that I was a little further back, because it was very laborious to enter.
Q. - Yes she actually said just the interrogation, page 15: "I think, even
remember being in good positions first, I may have entered the sixth,
seventh, eighth, ninth, but no more."
REPLY - But ...
Q. - "And it is difficult to quantify how many were able to enter" as he
said.
ANSWER - Yes, but always in the body of the same interrogation, at the
end reviewing the images that I had not seen, I said: "At this point
perhaps I should review, that is no longer so convinced of that position"
because it is one thing to evaluate based on simple memory and an
account is to review the action.
Q. - But you know images can also be beautiful, I remember her from that
on which I was very clear the disputed that she had, moreover, she denies
it.
ANSWER - (inaudible) I have preceded it, I preceded in ...
Q. - Do you still entered in the top positions?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And you came along to?
ANSWER - Anyway ...
Q. - Staff of his department, his team? In addition to staff?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Here, the main door you do not know if she also noted that the action
was conducted against the same side of the door and if you can tell when
you first open the one or the other? Do you remember?
ANSWER - No, I think it was opened before the main door, but it is true
that access to the main door was so laborious, was so narrow, full of
obstacles, because there were still things on the ground, in reality, who
immediately went to open the other door, the door has been left to
recover those in power to be able to log in, inside the building.
Q. - So, who came from Central has also helped to open the left?
ANSWER: - Well I assume "yes" to open the files, I think it is ...
Q. - Oh, it argues, is not it ...
ANSWER - No, no lo deduce, infer the attention, I conclude.
Q. - Then you enter into this building with his men together and do
something?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - I mean you have to make at this point? What did you do?
ANSWER - So I was not institutionally, as Commander of the force had no
operational role, I could have stayed out, but it is a moral and professional
obligation to follow and see what happens and I have always done, and
basically after this ...
Q. - I'd been surprised that she had been out, but since you gave us.
ANSWER - No, no, but you are right.
Questions - please specify this.
REPLY - But I would not be left out, I've never been.
Q. - because those who commanded them.
ANSWER - I've never been back to my men in situations certainly more
embarrassing than that.
Q. - No, briefly explain to me why a working situation?
ANSWER - The Force Commander ...
Q. - What is the foreman?
ANSWER - the public security law that identifies the Force Commander,
the Commander of the force is directly employed by the police officer.
Q. - But fine. Who was the police officer?
ANSWER - Well this is not ...
Q. - as he entered the school?
ANSWER - you this, you this, this is a rhetorical question I guess is why I
later, after many years have six years, I still do not know honestly.
Q. - This is not rhetoric, because the Court does not know the word that
she has made to the prosecutor to do so if the question you must answer,
if he thinks he wants to answer.
ANSWER - Yes No I said that after six years, after six years are not able to
say.
Q. - So ...
ANSWER - Who was the manager of the service.
Q. - So there she did not have the perception that there was a manager of
the service? Or anyway?
REPLY - Or at least that there were too many.
Q. - or there were too many. There were senior officials in rank?
ANSWER - Yes, definitely yes accidents.
Q. - How many were there?
ANSWER - Well there was the Doctor La Barbera, was Dr. Luperi, there was
Dr. Gratteri, there was Dr. Murgolo who knew by sight and reputation
basically, then there have been other officials but did not know nor sight
nor fame.

Q. - That she has seen them there with you?

ANSWER - Absolutely not.
Q. - In what context?
ANSWER - I saw them here and I have some difficulties to rebuild, for sure
I saw them during the period preceding and subsequent to the
transaction, so if we want to call.
Q. - Next in the sense that you had already completed '
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes.
Q. - The entrance?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Okay then you will be involved in a particular area of the building.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And now we get there in stages. But that now I have a moment on the
widespread presence of officials because she told me "I could not even
enter, but if she had not entered his men who were ...
ANSWER - That ...
Q. - not in theory no abstract, we are not in a square, in front of a police
officer with the event, were breaking into a building?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Where you ... what you do in there? What should you do in the
building?
ANSWER - I can honestly say that I owe when the mobile unit enters a
building, the only thing to do is to conquer the upper floors to avoid
throwing objects, is made in prisons, is done in homes that are to be
evicted and in all these situations.
Q. - So you had to conquer the building.
REPLY - But here is basically above the upper floors, but the appearance of
so to speak, the operation completely escaped us because we are not
having a mandate to arrest people if they do not accidentally. If you do not
accidentally.
Q. - Okay already say that you have to conquer a building is quite
eloquent.
ANSWER - Anyway I got so I want to say sir, I repeat not ...
Q. - You admit that they have entered?
ANSWER - How?
Q. - No, I say he admits to be entered?
ANSWER - Sure.
Q. - I took for granted that she had entered.
ANSWER - How not, God forbid.
Q. - So since you came in and he also entered in the top positions.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - I asked her its operations in that building which was to be conquered?
ANSWER: - My usual was that if we want, namely to control the actions of
men and check that there are no discrepancies in the use of men with all
that I must say the situation was not typical, because we are accustomed
to working in open areas where there are escape routes for the protesters
and then a different approach, however, have entered if not technically,
ethically, morally, with the same obligations, that is to be close to people
and understand what the hell happened in there because some I was
beginning to come into doubt, given the (inaudible) the situation.
Q. - And what did he do?
ANSWER: - Very simple: I took the first steps that I found, were those who
left and I walked.
Q. - So you enter the front door was found in front of a room ... What was
found?
ANSWER - Watch (inaudible) the environment of the gym, the environment
of the gym, I had not even noticed it was honestly a gym with a ... With an
instinct which is accumulated in decades of this work was to immediately
take the stairs, I mean, I had this, this, this reaction.
Q. - So you projected inside goes immediately to the left?
ANSWER - I immediately searched the stairs immediately.
Q. - Did you find the stairs and headed toward the upper floors?
ANSWER - No, I found myself on the first floor.
Q. - you in this action, since it was one of the first to enter, has joined with
those who have found the first floor is?
ANSWER - I Look at the first floor when I arrived, I found in place of the
fights. I found in place of those fights that were not.
Q. - What?
ANSWER - It is that unfortunately, I found, was a dark situation, a situation
of semi-darkness, this is something that is reported by all and I tried to
understand what was happening and I realized that the fights were not
such, but in reality, that is if they were one-sided fights.
Q. - Can you explain?
ANSWER - I can explain that there were four or five police officers, that I
can not report it, two in civilian clothes and one or two perhaps in the
uniform of the Mobile Unit with a white belt who were not doing what
needed to be done, ie they were virtually inert, were raging on the
wounded, with them.
Q. - Why has not said this before?
ANSWER - Because the sense of belonging that can also be confused with
silence, in such a difficult time of strepitus holes for all that was rising I did
not felt, I did not felt. I grew up and live in a family of cops, I have not had
the courage to ... of having to scan a site as significant as that of a
criminal conduct so serious.
Q. - But when she sees Dr. Fournier was felt at the time, I am here I read
the transcript of page 25: "As soon as I entered the building immediately
following the indications of the stairs ..." and jump a bit 'because this is
not the part that interests me, then "walked in to one of these, in these
dark, actually I see a dozen, a dozen people who huddled, who lean
against the wall" starts to yell "Everybody against the wall, all against the
wall and I saw that they scream, they cry has no effect. " Then the
prosecutor asked: "People huddled?" And she replies: "And someone
leaning against the wall" and she says: "Anything but aggressive people at
that time I have to absolutely recognize it, then in English because I
realized, even in previous days, there was a strong possibility that there
was a foreigner, German, Danish, etc., I tried to give orders, the English
words 'state with his hands up to the wall' because I really had not
realized even in those few seconds which could be the real danger of
these young people, these people present. It was dark, after a while 'I
repeat, I do not know if I got used to the dark or some other secondary
light "and the prosecutor asked her:" There was light outside the window?
"Then" Yes, there at that time ends operation in the sense that as I begin
to watch what I encounter, that is the decisive meeting, because I see a
girl, I have described in detail in the report, about one meter high and 80,
with shaved hair wrote presume, because the Sex was not easy. "

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - President Excuse me a challenge.

Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - The challenge is ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - You are still talking about this
episode.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - The challenge is that everything he said he
had seen to date, namely in three interviews, there is no sign of a struggle
taking place.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Oh, then tell him face him contest
has not finished yet, has not yet spoken practice.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I anticipated when I do finish.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - No if she anticipates.
PRESIDENT - Perhaps it would be better to say it first and then if there are
any disagreements we read what he has already said.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - said, however, I obey.
PRESIDENT - Let's say first that the accused ...
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Say what you saw then.

ANSWER - No, I just heard. Arrived ...

Q. - In fact, the President had just said, I so I was allowed to make a
complaint, that the objection is: he never talked about it before but on the
contrary, he first gave a description of everything the opposite of what we
describe here that " Nobody was beating, but everything had already
happened, there were any wounded around me, thinking I had gone there
screaming to face the enemy and who knows what ... "
PRESIDENT - And why do not we tell him.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Eh, but if the President does not end the
dispute, I am subjecting it to him.
PRESIDENT - I believe that the complaint presupposes that there is a
contrast between what they said today that (inaudible)
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Between what President has just said.
PRESIDENT - No, what he just said let it go though before. Let it continue
and if there is a problem he is asked a difference.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - He had previously excluded and this is on
page 29 of the report that there were people in that corridor except the
wounded.
PRESIDENT - Oh no chiediamoglielo then?

ANSWER - I do this though, I repeat, however, in each case. I stated why I

had been silent in this respect. I specified ...
PRESIDENT - Stories first saw him?
ANSWER - I emphasize the contradiction it to him, it is true, absolutely
true, what is important, I have no problem saying so.
CHAIRMAN - So you do not need a challenge, just told him to the
defendant.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No, I'm sorry President, I'm sorry I think the
challenge we need because it is also important to understand how you
arrive at the truth of the facts, not just that you get to the truth of the
facts and I think it is important that you must evaluate that the defendant
is now saying things he never said it before, then we must see if they are
reliable or not. But I'm okay for me, in short, I protest I did. The important
thing is that is clear, but it is telling the accused that he never said these
things first. He wants to provide some other additional details?
ANSWER - No, yes, certainly yes, and then in effect at the beginning when
you have these fights, I go and I start to scream, too "Stop, stop" but after
a while 'as I said before, these fights were one-way, ie they were only four
or five thugs against these people who were now reduced to conditions
that it can not, it could not react and I at that point I had to scream
"Enough, enough" because of the larynx done with those who were not my
own and had not the speech I had, in fact I had with someone, I also
pushed for ... because he had not even seen that I was an officer. At that
point, and he told her about the conditions of those I found in there and
everything I've done is totally comparable to what I said, me after I, I was
terrified, thrilled when I found the girl with her head open . Adding ...
Q. - So you saw who?
ANSWER - I ... I ...
Q. - caused that injury?
ANSWER - I saw, I saw the silhouettes in the dark, people (unintelligible), I
realized who it was, about 400 people there.
Q. - How many were those who saw her in the dark?
ANSWER: - Four or five people, I can not give a ... specifications.
Q. - How many people preceded his ascent to the first floor?
ANSWER - I do not remember. On the stairs I can not remember at all.
Q. - Why should I even be able to understand how they can be there
before you were these people? So if, as you are saying that there were
people on that plane, and tells me, however, does not remember people
in front of her on the stairs, I wanted to understand a bit 'better?
ANSWER - I said I do not remember the steps or if there were less people.
She is now asking a millimeter reconstruction that are not able to provide
it at all, I arrived there and found this scene and I spoke and I think that
12 of the guys that are there and among other things it confirms roughly
what I did .
QUESTION - Listen, then let's understand a little 'better.
Answer - and then takes into account that the entrance was very hard-
working people then surely that is meanwhile went on, that is not entered
immediately, that is, to me and those who preceded me there was a
considerable period of time, the entrance into reality is laborious.
Q. - She actually has the time to enter the school at the time spoke of
times rather low, concentrated, you talked about 30 seconds?
ANSWER - No, 30 seconds from access.
Q. - And sure?
ANSWER - Caution.
Q. - Well access?
RESPONSE - From access.
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - from access of the hallway.
Q. - What?
REPLY - But just before the entrance, ie at the stage, the stage input from
the outside, there takes more than 30 seconds, almost two minutes have
passed through the crowd.
Q. - I understand, but for her as for others. For her as for others.
REPLY - Oh, and I ...
Q. - So if you as for others, she was in top positions it took him 30 seconds
to reach the first floor, I would like to better understand where to
materialize these white belts and these policemen in plain clothes.
ANSWER - Well they were watching ... they were all there, there were ...
there were, there was a group ahead of me when I was in the main
entrance, left also assume that someone has managed to come even
earlier, because I specified that my input on that main entrance is at the
eighth position. I say in line at the first interrogation, that is to reassess
the position.
Q. - Look not exactly like in the sense that she sees a movie and then says
but maybe it does, then I could not be, but she acknowledges that it is not
in the movie eh? So why ask?
REPLY - Oh and the movie no, my memory ...
Q. - No, but she did not recognize?
ANSWER - (inaudible) after 48 hours of service was a memory that is
millimeter
Q. - No, you're saying ...
ANSWER - ... is paradoxical.
Q. - You are saying that he entered the main door?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - What was one of the first to enter and this has always confirmed, then
he also said now that he finally saw a movie where it is not that much you
even recognize?
ANSWER - No, I did not see right now, have seen the interrogation.
Q. - Yes, but it's not that you were recognized in the movie that can be
said?
ANSWER - No, I do not see how I could.
Q. - So, never mind the movie, then his lawyer will think to ask questions
that ...
ANSWER - Yes
Q. - ... allow it to better develop its defenses. I now want to ask, since
there are different (inaudible)

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Excuse President (inaudible) but

the defendant is making a version, and is saying he has stated before, the
beginning of the first interrogation he thought (inaudible), then says, "I
saw the movie, and then changed his mind I had to be entered after "I
realize that Dr. Cardona will not be good, but it says the defendant then
this ...
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - What is President I say I do not understand
st'intervento, is absolutely unusual, it is incorrect.
PRESIDENT - has responded in this way then the appropriate action when
she heard the defendant never asked him.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Yes, but continues to interrupt him
by saying is not true is not true, let me finish and ...

Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - If I am late, I made a complaint. So these

are legitimate questions that many people who were on that plane,
described by officials who have been beaten, the means by which they
were beaten and currencies that have seen people who have beaten and
dark uniforms, correspond to "Seventh core" then you may say now, as
never did in his previous reports.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - No forgive me what the President said
the prosecution at this time is not true. Why do some witnesses said they
were attacked by some with the black belt and others ... others with white
belt and others with bibs.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I am referring to witnesses who told of
being attacked by ...

PRESIDENT - prosecutor can go ahead please.

Q. - So I therefore have an interest in stating whether she has seen these

people. When you saw them and said to have intervened, stopped them?
Did you see where they go?
ANSWER - I refused, I sent away.
Q. - Did he leave you?
ANSWER - I've hunted. I had no idea even of what had happened in that
moment. I had no idea the effect that had was that people did not know in
that excitement.
Q. - As he had no idea? He has said before that saw them beat?
ANSWER - Yes, but I had no idea of the consequences Doctor, in the dark,
in that situation, unfortunately it happens in public order that there is
someone who is reasonably and meanwhile he was sent away.
Q. - But she has seen the good these people?
ANSWER - No, I saw them well in the dark I can not have seen them well,
there were two with a uniform and uniform tends not to classify people,
unrecognizable.
Q. - When did you yelled this command to terminate this request?
ANSWER - When I realized that the violence had not brought any more
meaning if the provision (inaudible) not (inaudible)
Q. - How long has it been?
ANSWER - Just a few seconds.
Q. - So you just get on the floor has seen this scene?
ANSWER - I have not ... I could so I could not immediately assess if there
were fights with the reactions when I realized, for how can you be
accountable in that situation, that in fact there was a situation of
unilateral violence, I yelled "Enough, enough" if they were mine, since she
is interested to know if it was the "Seventh Unit" I would first insulted but
with the larynx, so there would not need to shout "Enough, enough" I
would have sent away immediately.
Q. - As soon as she screamed that "Enough, enough," what happened?
ANSWER - There was also a reaction ... discomfort. Then it will be realized
or that I was an officer or another and they stopped and they left.
Q. - And you have them see each other again?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - In the building?
ANSWER - No.
QUESTION - Would you describe what were they?
ANSWER - Well there were one or two uniforms, I do not remember
perfectly, two uniforms Mobile Unit with the white belt and there were two
people in ... in the chest. I do not know if there was a fifth person, honestly
I do not remember this. It 'was a really, really that's lasted a few seconds.
Q. - Look you have made a sketch, explaining why a particular, she said,
came on the first floor, has now added this at the time she spoke to an
injured person?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - Would you describe briefly what you saw? What condition was
this person?
ANSWER - Yes, I would say that it was truly a most dramatic moment of
the whole affair because at first I was focused on the boys who were near
the bathrooms, there are bathrooms, a small corridor, just below me ran in
the position to which I referred in the sketch in a girl and a high around 80
with a body quite masculine, strong, probably the North.
ANSWER - lying in a pool of blood, but blood really abundant, the most
alarming and that I have been able to verify that there were some lumps,
lumps that for ... at the moment, the moment I mistook for brain matter.
Q. - So what?
Answer - and then, and then the first thing I did, because the framework,
the framework of ... I think the situation was completely out of hand, and
as it was wise there would likely this process, I ordered my men wherever
they were on the radio, to immediately leave the school immediately and
to call medical personnel to come ambulances.
Q. - Here I'll show you a sketch of which I spoke earlier. This is the binder
14 foliation 364.
ANSWER - Yes, it's the design that I have done so.
QUESTION - Would you describe briefly what is the sketch?
ANSWER - Yes The dots you see are ... the other guys are more or less
seriously injured, but then I realized to what others were seriously injured
about the severity of ... the girl, who is drawn just ortodossalmente to me
on that is showing now. And those are the other people injured, those who
are on the left assume that was the area, the area of the baths.
Reference - a person feel that we have heard in the trial, a witness to this
process and who was in that plane. We described the dynamic of this
action and this person described the action of repeated beatings,
prolonged in time, several times, people also beaten by police in the
corridor and has described the uniforms match your uniform in the sense
that he was submitted a photograph showing the white belt and ruled that
there was a white belt.
ANSWER - Well, you see, on this ...
Q. - Witness Ghiser Roland Michel hearing ...
ANSWER - I say?
Q. - No Ghiser says, do not tell you.
REPLY - Oh yes, no, no, no feminine pronoun she, her, lady.
Q. - No Ghiser is a man, so.
ANSWER - It 's a man? Then he says so.
Q. - By the way this test has a sketch, but that I had and that he was
subject, okay here is very similar to her this, I wanted to show the accused
if it was possible. This is the binder 6 foliation 148. Yes, yes I do see.
ANSWER - It 's a little different from ... No, it's a little different, the
emphasis is put here and indicate the location of the area, sorry Doctor.
Q. - No, that's the position Ghiser.
REPLY - Oh, and the girl where the positions have patience.
Q. - A little 'later.
REPLY - But look honestly seems to me correct my honestly.
Q. - Okay. I wanted to ask this again.
ANSWER - Yes
Q. - when you became aware of the presence of this girl, she has worked
for the relief effort?
ANSWER - There is no doubt. I immediately called the ambulance. Via the
radio.
Q. - How?
RESPONSE - Use the larynx hoping that someone in the same type as the
Master Singers or more and then I assisted where possible.
Q. - Do you know if anyone else has seen this person?
ANSWER - There was a girl, a blonde girl who was with me, I do not
remember the German or Swiss. We were close, we talked about. I have
expressed my regret at the juncture, in the immediacy of what had
happened.
Q. - It has also provided help this girl?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, he of garzettine, had a small, small first aid kit, but I
sincerely when I saw it, given the gravity of the situation, I felt totally
inadequate, in fact I have not asked to move it why not ... not ... see the
speech of the head, neck, back, could be paid by the state in which it
could have been damaged so badly that manipulation may be more
dangerous than not keep her there until she gets the medical staff. To me
he was dying if he wants to know this, for me this girl was dying the front.
Q. - In addition to the intervention of this girl that you described above
and that in fact corresponds to a witness who was heard at the hearing
Miss Jannette Drejer, she noted the involvement of some of his men in
that situation.
ANSWER - No, I was Inspector Sweets occurred shortly after it took me
more comfort because I was there, I was ... I was pretty scared if I have to
say all, that is, in addition to the sorrow for the person, it was creating a
truly scary scenario.
Q. - What?
ANSWER - Well, imagine if she were dead.
Q. - Do you know if there were other people in the building, on the other
floors in the conditions, under conditions similar to those in which it was?
ANSWER - No, no I have to tell the truth, but I've learned, I learned from
the press afterwards. I hoped it would ...
Q. - not the team leader said that there were some situations people
unconscious with his head?
ANSWER - No, no, we had no way of talking.
Q. - Struck anyway.
ANSWER - I was not told any of this.
Q. - So what did you do afterwards?
ANSWER - Immediately, I have to wait for the medical staff has arrived ...
a nurse, I have not been able to help much because the girl was really full
of blood and honestly I had nothing, I had no gloves, but I made sure that
was taken away. Once past this, this situation has gone down. They went
down in the yard, I must tell the truth rather than thrilled.
Q. - Yes I'm supposed to challenge them every step, the pages of his
report, where she has added details that contrast completely with this
new reconstruction is providing today, I was under the eyes on page 29,
where she says, assumed there was more in the where there was another,
"I presume there were other voices heard about the scale, just down the
hall"
REPLY - But there was another staircase effects.
Q. - Yes "The corridor just the part where I was first for a minute and a
half, I was completely alone," that is full, but first I might ask.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - But I'm sorry the President
challenged.
Q. - What were the police who has not indicated and that they are
responsible.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - She's talking about it later.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No I'm not saying that before I finished the
challenge in the sense that I was stopped to allow a defendant to speak,
and his record is full of parts where it is stressed in reference to the fact
that he was absolutely only in that plan, that there was no one else, he
found the situation has already been made. I wonder even now the
acquisition of those parts of the report pursuant to Section 503.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - You can not get it?
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Yes, you may acquire with the limits of
Section 503 Seven.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - And when you can acquire?
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Eh since it is written on the Code.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli - That is not written on the Code no
longer have cleared.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No there.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - But it says that she can read but
can not acquire it.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - can not be used for the decision does not
test though.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - You can not gain if you do not
have a consensus between the parties and since it has the consent of the
parties.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - So I have to do all disputes.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - and we all, we're waiting.

Q. - Then page 37, "Mr. Prosecutor, I believe I would have something more
to be able to tell."
ANSWER - Here.
Q. - "I saw it, I saw it I realize it is a reality, a reality is insufficient,
probably because of the fact-finding, but that's what I saw and I can
assure you in no way whatsoever that the events occurred in this girl , had
no witnesses except for me and the guys who were hurt in turn and that
there were around because the only person who speaks with me in the
almost immediate success was the Inspector Tucci, and categorically
denied having asked anyone to stop the violence to which I have not seen,
I have witnessed the effects of some violence, I do not know when it
happened at this point and untreated. " This is page 37 of its minutes.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - The accused has corrected.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Lawyer there was no need of his
intervention.
PRESIDENT - The disputes are there to believe that this not so there ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - President But you have said
something else.
PRESIDENT - Well, but I think the prosecutor has the opportunity to
challenge what he said earlier.

Q. - With President, among other things at 31 after the prosecutor said: "In
the time it takes to get to the first floor you have to assume that someone
has used physical means of escape against these people who still say they
were already reduced in state harmless, 30 seconds she reaches the floor
on the first floor, "he says," Yes, yes, but not yet there is nothing of the
kind that has given today and on page 40 "Oh well it is certain ... "She is
always talking," I mean can not be excluded because it took me 30
seconds, which certainly must have been very good, I mean between the
access time that I had on the first floor and the scene of butchery Mexican
"Here is the famous term that she uses the" Mexican butchery "I mean.
REPLY - But I think that was also used well, however, by the prosecution.
Q. - Who did it, refrain from making these comments.
ANSWER - Why should I abstain sorry.
Q. - Why she's here to answer if he wants to respond, otherwise it can use.
You should not make comments.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Sorry Attorney, the witness should
not answer, but neither the prosecutor has the right to make comments.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No I am calling the defendant to adhere to
the answers they want, if want to give to my questions, not to make
comments.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Make claims without comments
please.
PRESIDENT - He said she's famous term (inaudible) Cardona, told her.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I merely added the attribute famous, I have
not made any comment.
PRESIDENT - Go ahead, please.
Q. - The complaint I made it and back page 40. So here another challenge
and a bit 'long, I would fully accept it, meaning to recall the questions, the
transcripts from page 34: "I felt then that" the entry of this particular
police officer, this person currency to which it refers to what the witness
said that was already under investigation Ghiser heard "this person in
uniform with a helmet that at some point in order to stop," says this
person is a foreigner own, but says he has heard this type of reaction,
adds something else, which makes it more credible or more likely for
charity say "enough" that she has described to us as a gesture of anger
say, however, as an expression as well as an emotional reaction than the
scene that she chilling said, this person said: "A few seconds later it
occurred, maybe it was already there, I could say, a policeman wearing a
uniform of the same color so far that has taken the helmet off and said
'enough'." She was taken off his helmet and said "enough". "She was
taken off his helmet?" And she says, she says, "I think so" "All right had to
say it three times before that his colleagues would stop the beatings, I
thought it was a superior because he has raised the helmet, maybe he
had under his arm, but I must say that it could be one of their peers
because "then resumed the questioning here because there was an
interruption and the prosecutor says," She reaffirms my version? "
"Absolutely no doubt, if I had seen the first ordunque relationship with my
man does not even remotely an order that can be discussed, namely the
difference in roles is so obvious," and she denies that there was still
someone there . That is, "Enough, enough" here it refers to a gesture of
despair?
ANSWER - Well the reason is clear, I said why I kept quiet this. I've said in
many different ways.
Q. - when you entered the building, he noted behaviors, was made the
subject of behavior of resistance?
ANSWER - I personally do not.
Q. - Did you see the behavior of resistance against others?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Have you seen throwing objects from windows of the building?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - When?
REPLY - But what I saw.
Q. - Oh well, I'm asking is certainly what she saw, not what he has not
seen. And when she went down from the first floor? What happened? As
the operation has been going on?
REPLY - But there was the problem immediately instead of transporting ...
of those arrested, those arrested. Why is there too ritually in flash floods
has been requested that those arrested, which can not be done by
regulation, should be done with the media today, with the media
department. There was some difficulty there, there was some discussion
in the end, pending a comprehensive emergency, we agreed to do this
support and I proceeded with, I think Inspector Basili a ... one of those
stocks at the Department of Bolzaneto. I do not remember how many
there were means and how many were arrested, I had to go to ensure that
everything proceeded in full legality, without which there could be more
episodes.
Q. - Senta and had contact with the Commander of the Mobile Unit of
Rome, Dr. Canterini in that circumstance?
ANSWER - Yes, in fact, the Commander I even reached the floor of the girl
and was quite impressed even Canterini and then later we ...
Q. - So in addition to the Inspector Tucci?
ANSWER - Tucci, Tucci, yes, yes.
Q. - And 'intervened ...
ANSWER - It 's also addressed him, was ...
Q. - Dr. Canterini?
ANSWER - It 's been too, too thrilled there.
Q. - Um what's next?
ANSWER - No, after ...
Q. - But he still had contact?
ANSWER - Once, after we meet again, we meet again in the yard because
there was the problem of transport of the detainees.
Q. - So what?
ANSWER - After we have solved the problem and we went with ... with the
means we went to Bolzaneto.
Q. - Dr. Canterini asked her something in order to produce a report for
service?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not.
Q. - At that time you know if she was picking up?
ANSWER - I have not the faintest idea.
Q. - You have written a report in turn on this service?
ANSWER - Yes, a few days later.
REQUEST - The request was from someone?
ANSWER - Then he was creating the whole problem, except that if the
department does not have service records are not immediate, was rising
around the issue of the G8, the story we felt the need in some way to
formalize a position, so much true then we were also heard from Dr. Lalla.
Q. - This is already under investigation?
ANSWER - No, not at least not personal investigations, yes, yes, yes.
Q. - as a witness?
ANSWER - Yes, as witnesses, yes, yes.
Q. - was not yet investigated. And when the task of conquest of the
building, as you said before, has been completed, you sit outside?
REPLY - Oh look ...
Q. - In the courtyard?
ANSWER - The moment, at the same time, and this is also reflected in the
reports of other team leaders, at the very moment that I came across this
scene on the first floor, I immediately dumped the staff from the school,
also taking personal responsibility and even in that case will not be
entitled to issue such an order. Gone with the larynx, through the radio we
had in ...
Q. - Yes, and then you are, you have deployed in the yard?
ANSWER - Yes, they were deployed in the courtyard and then later in ...
outside the school if I am wrong, then I lose because of the steps we are
sincerely interested in the Sermon on the basis of Bolzaneto.
Q. - Have you been there until now?
ANSWER - I do not remember. This is not to say I know him. I can tell you
that I went to Bolzaneto, we delivered on ... they stopped and we returned
immediately to the police station at Caravelle.
Q. - I feel I wanted to see a movie. No, not that, I wanted to see a movie
that is the third part 239, if I remember correctly. I would ask you kindly to
get closer to the small screen. Send the form in slow motion. Then this
document, there has seen the breakthrough of the gate?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You, stop here a moment sorry. You respect, looking at the building ...
Here you see, you notice the approach of the central door operators, even
the one side.
ANSWER - Yes Look here to see the diversity of the composition of the
group of policemen, they have everything bibs, white belts, "Seventh
Unit."
Q. - Yes, yes, but this is not ...
ANSWER - People radius, shiny helmets, helmets matt "Seventh Unit."
Q. - That is if we stop here a moment. You come from this direction?
ANSWER - No, I already we have come from this direction at that point.
Q. - But this is the direction?
ANSWER - Yes, this is the direction I have traveled so.
Q. - You have noticed that there was a person in the street?
ANSWER - Absolutely not.
Q. - In what circumstances?
ANSWER - I have this thing going, I've learned recently, this story ... I think
it's a real English? This is something I learned recently.
Q. - Because you see here in these images that run slow, you see that a
person is hit. Among other things, is hit by a person at a guess, here see
that there is a person with one arm raised, then we might even fill a
version of RIS.
ANSWER - I have to say the truth, hence I can not see anything, because
there is also the date that overlaps the image.
Q. - This person is a person in uniform?
ANSWER - Yes, I see, I see several people in uniform and I see different
helmets.
Q. - Here.
ANSWER - I do not see one, but the person who raises his arm Doctor do
not see it.
Q. - But is a person in uniform is a uniform dark. It 'a person who has his
arm raised. Now we see better.
ANSWER - For (inaudible) the video of these images, to be honest I have
great difficulty in distinguishing (off microphone) I think she realizes that
not infer anything from these pictures, I can not see anything, that I can
imagine, but to state that I see honestly.
Q. - It 's a person who appears to have a uniform, a dark-colored uniform
and helmet and is hitting a person on the ground.
ANSWER - You can show it to me please at normal speed.
Q. - Yes. She sees him?
ANSWER - No I can not see it here.
Q. - Let's go ahead normally.
ANSWER - Yes I see you took a shot. I see you took a shot, I see it now.
Q. - Okay, let's see, we see the stage where people continue to enter the
courtyard, these are means that are reaching the building from the right,
as you said before, after you have achieved?
ANSWER - Yes, I suppose.
Q. - Hm. Here is one more step on what I recall, a while yet, here we have
already opened the main door.
Response - a gate.
Q. - A door is?
ANSWER - What then is the only think that you can not ... be able to open,
I think, I'm not sure. Watch as the (inaudible)
Q. - Here the bench is lifted and moved, she even acknowledges this true?
ANSWER - I recognize the helmets.
Q. - What?
ANSWER - There are our helmets, and there are lots of shiny helmets.
Q. - Perhaps a Tonfa fails to recognize is that right?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, yes. If it's a Tonfa is so typical ... behold, here it
appears the Tonfa yes.
QUESTION - Can we say that those who enter this stage, the top positions,
they have helmets belonging to the "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - This immediacy, paradoxically, that paradox in actual fact they
are not the "Seventh Unit."
Q. - Oh I miss so much paradox in short. Eh?
ANSWER - One, two, three, four, five, the first five are not the "Seventh
Unit."
Q. - The first five after the first five?
ANSWER - The first five of the first one, two, three, four ... there are many,
those, these lights are not the "Seventh core" because they are opaque.
Q. - Here I light it on behalf of those four, five, among others?
ANSWER - No, not really.
Q. - Okay, we can still say that what comes first and that the following are
your core? The "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not, because there are two that are the core, but
there are three that are not core.
Q. - So you do not recognize three of the Core?
ANSWER - Yes, not counting the four or five that are immediately
thereafter.
Q. - Oh, but forward, and even those who are always after "Seventh core"?
Here the door has not been left open and someone uses a bench,
something to ...
ANSWER - Here, here, look how much time has passed, how much time it
takes to actually be able to get inside, that is to say what has been
laborious.
Q. - Well maybe 10 seconds have passed.
ANSWER - 10 seconds are not just in a fit, however you look at all that
there are still essentially here.
Q. - Of course, you are entering slowly.
ANSWER - White belt.
Q. - Here is the view has a white belt. Then look what I wanted to ask Dr.
Fournier is now part of interest. My interest.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So, this part I was interested to see her shows a zoom on the entrance
gate.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - What has already been open for a while ', I think there is an operator
of your core there and here ...
ANSWER - Where do you see?
Q. - And now I take him for a moment, here's this person who is here on
the right, near the white sign.
ANSWER - Never ...
Q. - Here is the bottom right of the injured person which I mentioned
earlier.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you see?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - This is to specify the location and the person who first saw her, there
was a person who took a shot. There in the middle of ... is still there on the
spot? Near the gate broken? So it's not so long ago this action? You about
this thing, this particular can not remember anything?
ANSWER - In this, I repeat, this did not have ... I recently learned, I had no
news of this absolute fact happened in addition to everything else.
Q. - Yet you have done over the entrance?
ANSWER - Never ... I understand it yes, but I've seen, I have not received
nor have I heard even later. It 's a fact ...
Q. - One of the other side is where you come from you? No date has been
pointed out as things that no one ever said this before?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - I thought you would remember this one?
ANSWER - I have given an answer and I will not say more. On this fact I
know nothing about, so do not make me any questions in advance
because she did not say more.
Q. - No one wants to invoke the right to remain silent?
ANSWER - No, I use the repeat for the umpteenth time, if we lose this time
that I've done the unknown.
Q. - If doing yourself these questions because I have not done? I have not
repeated. We see the shields.
PRESIDENT - Let's go on quietly without making changes in examination.
That's when we're done. I say if we ran out ...
Q. - No, I wanted to see more this stage here, which is a step input where
you can see, now I carry a little 'back because I lost, where you see the
shields raised. Here we see that staff continues to enter, including of
course there are, I can still see the helmets' Seventh Unit. " The squires,
eh that staff carrying shields? It was your staff?
ANSWER - Yes. Presumably yes, usually, yes, we who use this type but
also the types of helmets I see is ours, here in this case.
Q. - Okay.
REPLY - this could also be inferred that from this moment still the bulk is
out.
Q. - Here we see the opening of the door and left here in fact we can also
see other than your uniform?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - How too, can also be seen at some point a round shield?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - It was not in your budget?
ANSWER - I do not remember if we had supplied, I could not answer.
Q. - But ordinarily?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes.
QUESTION - Can it be?
ANSWER - Mobile Unit, definitely yes.
QUESTION - Can be Mobile's Department but also of "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - I do not remember if we had at this time.
Q. - Um, because there I only saw the first square and then?
ANSWER - we tend to use only the squares.
Q. - I understand.
REPLY - But I can not exclude a priori that there was also the round shield.
Q. - So this person who for example can be seen entering the left, now I
do not know if she has noticed.
ANSWER - If I may review?
Q. - Oh, okay, now carry it to him a little 'back. We see that going up a
round shield you see it?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Can you see that?
REPLY - Oh but I see only the shield, I see only the outline of the shield,
but not ...
Q. - Oh yeah well you may not realize, however, say it could also be
another, belonging to another department.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And you also see people who come here on the left chest. You have
arrived at this point? E 'possible?
ANSWER - I could not rebuild it exactly, due to the industriousness of the
entrance as I said before.
Q. - Yes, but ...
ANSWER - I might, I could ...
Q. - This movie is in sequence with (inaudible)
ANSWER - I might already be inside you.
Q. - Let's go ahead for a moment. Why not ask him because you look here
I found the challenge on her, because she said on page 62 of the minutes,
watching this movie: "That's Doctor allows in this picture, that of turtles,"
and then we speak of the shields I think not?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - The tortoise is a formation?
ANSWER - The deployment to tortoise.
Q. - "I was definitely in," he said at the time.
ANSWER - Well, but ... not rule it out.
Q. - Here we continue to see personnel from entering the movie and then
just ends here. She was also heard during the investigation of aspects of
the training also covered the speech of the core, its core was a member of
the First Mobile Unit in Rome?
ANSWER - I confirm.
Q. - Driven by Dr. Singers. And the First Mobile Unit in Rome, including its
core was present in Genoa during the G8?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - The specialty of your core was particular that were a core that had
received additional training than others?
ANSWER - Yes, I had just done the training I was training on physical
conditioning and psychological fundamentally, however, that adopted
these new materials and techniques, but the techniques usual course with
more athleticism, this was the substance. Experimental its core it was
because it was intended to give a ... a further qualification to operators of
public order.
Q. - You were also an allocation different from the others?
ANSWER - Yes, in this case was limited in practice all'UBOT and use of
batons.
Q. - The UBOT that was different then?
ANSWER - Yes, that was different but in essence acts and then it was not
even used anymore. And then there was this trial of Tonfa.
Q. - Okay, seeing as we talked more there, perhaps assuming some
knowledge of the speeches of the helmets, which means it is the diversity
that is?
ANSWER - The difference is that we use is ordinarily a helmet of pure
derivation motorcycle substantially. The other has a hand against the
helmet shell with ... with ropes.
Q. - Perhaps it is more like that of the Armed Forces today?
ANSWER - No LRE Armed Forces that I have, who have, who have UBOT
the UBOT is a typical allocation of police forces, because the Armed Forces
we would do little.
Q. - You like material certainly is not the same.
ANSWER - I think it is in fact "Chelevar" was a good, a good product, but
already appears outdated with the new prototypes.
Q. - He had an appearance as a different color than normal?
ANSWER - Yes, yes it had a shape, an oval shape quite different, had the
grooves.
Q. - Of ... reinforcements?
ANSWER - Eh strengthening the neck was a little different and then it was
the thing that was most palpable was the opacity, in contrast to the
lucidity.
Q. - Besides your uniform all'UBOT also differed from that?
ANSWER - No, the uniform was identical, was distinguished by a, for a
black cordura belt, blue, dark blue.
Q. - So the effect was a bit 'smoother?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You could see white patches on your uniform?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - And the budget for defense and offense, I do not know it was also
different from that of the Mobile Unit Ordinary?
ANSWER - No, we had received, perhaps not all the guards, the guards at
that time consisted in the purchase of products for hockey to ice hockey,
which is practically the bodices, stiff bodices of which were worn under
uniform.
Q. - You said I even offensive or defensive, as we feel it, that is, the means
of coercion, batons?
ANSWER - Well the Tonfa.
Q. - Here is the Tonfa was not included in the Mobile Unit Ordinary?
ANSWER - No, it's still ...
Q. - It was only in your budget?
ANSWER - It 's still included, however, to the Carabinieri Corps.
Q. - to the Carabinieri Corps has it to public policy.
ANSWER - In aluminum.
Q. - And Telescopic, your was different, was not telescopic.
ANSWER - It was made of wood.
Q. - Um what kind of employment has this Tonfa?
ANSWER - The Tonfa is a ... is not a truncheon. Basically the Tonfa is a tool
that is more than half of physical force, has a high effectiveness for the
type of maneuvering if you learned the technique, but a technique which
of course must be corrected, including the fact that enables the
protection, because the contested in this way constitutes, makes up for
the function of the shield that very often we do not have it and uses a lot
of police around the world.
REQUEST - It 's harder than the truncheon, truncheons of the ordinary?
ANSWER - Absolutely, definitely yes.
Q. - The Ordinary rubber truncheons, flexible.
ANSWER - The ordinary sap is annoying but it is certainly harmless, it is
basically rubber, then various of ... can cause injury really related, unless
it is inappropriately. That is, if anything upset that may cause cuts. The
Tonfa is something more serious, something more complicated.
Q. - What?
ANSWER - That is a baton that can not be used with the lightness, is a
type of truncheon that can not be used with the levity with which you use
the ordinary one.
Q. - because otherwise what happens?
ANSWER - It can produce great damage. It can produce great damage.
Q. - Even with broken bones?
ANSWER - The shots, head shots, head shots can be fatal with a good
percentage of possibilities.
Q. - And it can break bones in substance?
ANSWER - Yes, definitely yes.
Q. - That can cause damage that you have observed on the first floor?
ANSWER - Mah damages, even those you can not believe it is only the
Tonfa tool for ...
Q. - that is also a hammer?
REPLY - But surely it is compatible, also works if I have to tell the truth, the
medical records I have not seen that girl I do not know exactly what it
should, however, I mean.
Q. - There are fractures.
ANSWER - It can produce fractures, may cause fractures. If it is used on
the head is crazy because you can kill, I've said this several times.
Q. - Look her when she was in the yard, the first was just wondering if he
had had contact with his Commander department.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - I do not remember if I asked him if he had contact with others, with
others belonging to its core?
ANSWER - No, no, no.
Q. - And if it has received reports of attacks carried into the building?
ANSWER - Yes I am down I learned, I learned Agent Nocera. I learned
Agent Nocera, told me quite succinctly, in a short, very short on ... the
incident because there was no time to be asking. That the thing I
remember is that he was particularly upset.
Q. - What do you learned in a brief manner?
REPLY - But I have learned, I remember, I remember I learned at those
meetings, in a situation of darkness proves he drew a knife, a cutting
board, I do not know exactly, and only then noticed it and found there to
land, but not ... not ... the dynamics in and of itself does not ... I do not
remember.
Q. - Do not you remember?
ANSWER - No, no, no.
Q. - If the person who had borrowed had been identified?
ANSWER - No, no, no, no.
Q. - So?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not.
Q. - In addition to this incident has not learned anything else?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Look you have ascertained, he realized, now we are at the end of your
intervention. What was then the operation of police practice that has been
given, which was put in place inside the building?
ANSWER - No, no, no, the activity ...
Q. - In ...
ANSWER - The activities of the Judicial Police, the repertoire?
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - No, no, I have seen in passing, I saw that they were beginning
to gather materials and by the way, including those materials recognized
one of our jackets and then I rebuilt by inference that it was probably one
of Nocera. But wait, I have not seen or participated in activities. Also ...
Q. - But when she spoke with Nocera Nocera us had the vest on?
ANSWER - I do not remember. I do not remember it because maybe he
had his jacket, I do not remember it.
Q. - As the jacket?
ANSWER - The jacket of his uniform, I do not know, I do not remember, are
not able to remember. I had other thoughts in that moment, then repeat
them sincerely and there were already solving the transportation problem.
Q. - So you saw a repertoire of activities?
ANSWER - Yes, but very superficial.
APPLICATION - Inside the building?
ANSWER - (inaudible) I saw that they were beginning to work, but most
assume it was done while I was carrying a Bolzaneto.
Q. - Did not you see, it was not realized if there were incendiary bombs
had been seized? Inside there?
ANSWER - Absolutely not.
Q. - Look ...
ANSWER - I found during the activity I have not found anything, so among
other things, nor have I seen the incendiary devices, I have not seen
anything.
Q. - He realized if there were bats, sticks, knives?
REPLY - But look at us, I remember, I remember it very vaguely, I did not
pay much attention.
Q. - That is what is vaguely reminiscent of?
ANSWER - I have seen this material began to be supported, I saw T-shirts,
things, but not ... not ...
Q. - That saw operators who carry this stuff?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, but the repertoire had not yet begun.
Q. - Do you ...
ANSWER - let me apologize.
Q. - You're welcome.
ANSWER - I no longer had any reason to remain in school, not as honestly
as I was concerned.
Questions - I wanted to see another movie.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Where she appears, I would ask ... I say that she also appears, but I
would ask if maybe ...
ANSWER - If I identify with.
QUESTION - If you are validating this. It is 199 minutes of finding 7 or 10.
Here you see some clothes belonging, this has slowed down because the
minute you start about 3:33 p.m., here are finding there are 199 members
to consider "seventh core"?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - The helmets are with the visors down.
ANSWER - Yes, yes as no.
Q. - And ...
ANSWER - This no ...
Q. - Yes, belonging to the normal ward.
REPLY - this is me.
QUESTION - is this person who is seen with a cell phone in hand perhaps?
ANSWER - Yes I am.
Q. - And the beret, so without a helmet.
ANSWER - That's me.
Q. - She 's on the left, the minute is 15 and 55. Then we go forward, you
understand other people apart from men?
REPLY - Those of SERT.
Q. - This is recognized?
ANSWER - This is my colleague, Mr Troiani.
Q. - Do you know him?
ANSWER: - Well I was five years, we have made the Academy together,
five years with the department I know, yes.
Q. - That evening, as well as on this occasion, where you go in the same
way here in short, in the same situation. She saw it, remember seeing it in
others?
ANSWER - Yes, but I ran a second, but nothing more.
Q. - Where?
ANSWER - In the courtyard, we've had, "Hello, hello" and that's that.
Q. - And you know what it occupied in these Trojans?
ANSWER - the Trojans had with Dr. Donnini and with Dr. Biagioli and was in
charge of logistics. That is therefore of the whole situation that was
implanted. I say Dr. Trojans took care of logistics, ie the activity that was
preparatory to the arrival of all the police, of all the reinforcements from
all over Italy, and Dr. Donnini was available for the preparations of the
ships, hotels and what more. This is the function and the job is that I had.
Among other things he was not at the Mobile Unit was under the Technical
School to the specialty of Flames Oro sports groups so do not ...
Q. - He was the person then we could address and in fact we turned to get
supplies?
ANSWER - Yes, supplies for transportation and company do not ... This was
the framework.
Q. - He was known to you as a reference point for this function that it
played?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Look she remembers seeing in that situation, when she was in, his
men say they were framed in the other court officials, the ones you
mentioned earlier? Who said he had seen them before and after?
REPLY - But ...
APPLICATION - The following is when?
ANSWER - Yes, I now look honestly, because I saw them certainly were
stationed there, but I have not talked that much, because it was not
people with whom I had any kind of confidence, nor the working
relationship.
Q. - Well some confidence, officials were talking about, I am referring to
the officials that you mentioned earlier?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - That is, in short, the Prefect's La Barbera?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And then I did not mean to say that she had confidence, I asked if he
had seen them?
ANSWER - The Prefect La Barbera I have not seen since. This I remember, I
have not seen again, is the only one to have reviewed to exclude the
operation.
Q. - That has seen him before?
ANSWER - Yes it was very visible I mean, as a character, then I knew him
well because he was Quaestor in Rome and we had worked together many
times.
Q. - But the others?
ANSWER - I saw them in passing, but now I can not give a precise location.
Q. - Who were the others, if I can remember them as you mentioned
before?
REPLY - But I remember with some difficulty, then the Prefect of La
Barbera rule out seeing him later on that I'm sure. For the other, or both
for Dr. Luperi for Dr. Gratteri, for Dr. Murgolo do not know if ... I do not
remember well when I saw them sooner or later, however I have certainly
seen, then also came at a later date Dr. Sgalla, but the merger, that is ...
Q. - to the merger you will ...
ANSWER - (inaudible)
Q. - After completing your task to ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes absolutely occurred later, after absolutely.
Q. - And then you remember the presence of Sgalla in relation to the press
said?
ANSWER - To print a resounding yes, not to each operation.
Q. - Look you remember, back in a moment, that is the moment when she
realizes the existence of several people wounded on the first floor. She
has spoken before of the rescue and that was helped by one of these
guys, hurt herself.
ANSWER - In what I have to tell the truth, I had not realized that this girl
was also injured, then I read it in ...
Q. - He suffered a broken hand and quite important to remember if she
was also present on the stairs of uniformed personnel in uniform while
being transported down the wounded and people who were less injured
than the others, because there were.
ANSWER - Look at this I do not remember because I was honest with the
girl and I took her down with a stretcher for everything, for this length. I
have not got to see, to perceive this fact, because the ambulance, the
nurse who came together, I just down the stairs.
QUESTION - Listen, Mrs. Dreier told the hearing that she would ask in
English if she had taken drugs.
ANSWER - It was not, was not, was not a question, a question was not to
make fun, spiked his eyes, that I simply was trying to figure out if there
might be a contributing cause, other than contributory cause I realized
that the situation was very serious.
Q. - Even ...
ANSWER - I start to make jokes at this juncture that there is not ...
Q. - He also reported to have asked her permission to be able to cure.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, God forbid. I ... She then asked me to the ambulance, I
said "I have already tried to call her."
Q. - Who called the ambulance?
ANSWER - This then frankly I do not know, came though, this is also quite
essential and timely. There is much hope in that context.
Questions - I would like to see some photographs of the corridor on the
first floor. Here this is the prospect of the first floor corridor.
ANSWER: - Coming from the left?
Q. - the mountain side to the left. It was photographed at 24 or 48 hours in
fact no more and remember these environments, recognize them?
ANSWER - Yes, well ...
Q. - And of course
ANSWER - Here come largely from the stairs on the left.
Q. - Yes, in front of her there are a number of numeric labels,
alphanumeric made findings that indicate traces of blood, traces of blood.
REPLY - But look, however if I am wrong because the girl I remember
finding it here.
Q. - That is to the left of the photo?
ANSWER - Yes, to the left.
Q. - In her letter with B means?
ANSWER - Yes, it seems to me that he was reviewing there.
Q. - And then the other guys were in situations that you represented in the
sketch?
ANSWER - The other guys ...
Q. - On the other side of the aisle?
ANSWER - More than I remember them back, I remember them more
backward, more backward than ...
Q. - What does it mean that the most backward sorry, deeper than the
photo?
ANSWER - This way I remember them.
Q. - Oh, so close to her when she arrived?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, definitely yes.
Q. - Do you get to the first floor, facing the hallway with this situation and
what it says at once? Because many report that some sentences which
were handed down. If you remember details of the sentences
pronounced?
ANSWER - Yes, the first words I spoke were ... the first phrases were even
when I had not, during what I thought was a fight, I tried to say "Against
the wall, put against the wall" Did I then repeated in English. And then I
realized, however, that in fact these against the wall we had to stand for
strength.
Q. - Do you remember hearing someone say other phrases? In that
corridor?
ANSWER - No, honestly no, I'm the only one who spoke.
Q. - She was the only one who spoke in the hallway?
ANSWER - Yes I confirm, first in Italian and then in English.
Q. - Many of the witnesses who were heard and have been found in that
corridor, I take one now I happen under Albrecht, report of abuse as
"bastard."
ANSWER - This I can not remember honestly, do not rule it out, do not rule
it out, do not rule out that it can not exclude that it can ...
Q. - Do not exclude the possibility that something you have said?
ANSWER - (inaudible) No. God forbid.
Q. - You said before, she said before the only one who spoke.
ANSWER - Yes, you bastards I have not heard, then someone has
previously been able to say is another matter.
Q. - And ...
ANSWER - I am after all ...
Questions - and an English sentence?
REPLY - Let me have a PhD Vice Questore short I mean, is not that just as I
move the last of the thugs who began to insult people during a police
operation, at least has made this little short for me protection, not bastard
ever told anyone, not my habit.
Q. - And the English sentence "Dont No White Cube dangerous"?
ANSWER - This I do not remember, I certainly have said something, I say a
specific phrase "to go and Rasiour hends gans de wall" that's what I said
"Raise your hands and stand against the wall" point .
Q. - This phrase here but do not remember?
ANSWER - I do not remember, I do not think "Cubes dangerous" I do not
remember.
Q. - This is a phrase that refers to another text Resched Kay at the
hearing. Many refer to the fact that "Enough, enough" other aggressive
actions have succeeded until then was stopped by the police.
ANSWER - but It Did I confirmed, I came almost to a shove with.
Q. - But they are the ones refer to uniforms of his department, belts dark.
ANSWER - I honestly do not return from the evidence that ... This
conclusion, however, then it will be the lawyer.
Q. - On what evidence? What you have heard?
ANSWER - In what I read, what I read.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - President must be the tenth time, I'm

sorry that continues to insist on this point. It seems to me that the
accused has made clear his vision, then if we get to 11 or 12 go right
ahead.

Q. - On what evidence, what she heard in the classroom?

ANSWER - the kind that I have read and I read the minutes.
Q. - Ah classroom because she has not heard these testimonies?
ANSWER - No, but I read the minutes.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - It 's the first time it is.

ANSWER - It 's the first time I come.

Q. - I wanted it to be clear about this.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - So, then you have not heard those phrases in English, she has not
spoken, he limited himself to utter the phrase "Resiour hands."
ANSWER - "Raise your hands" which seems to me a sentence for a
(inaudible)
Q. - Did not you hear, however, others who uttered those words, nor those
insults?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - A witness tells us that the person who said "Enough" is then also
intervened against a policeman who was mimicking a gesture?
ANSWER - It 's true, is true.
Q. - coital against.
ANSWER - It 's true I had a major confrontation with this person, but this
occurred later.
Q. - Who was this person?
ANSWER - A character in plain clothes, a person who came later, however,
was, was waiting, he was still waiting ... relief.
Q. - Even so this is a new reminiscence.
ANSWER - It 's a new declaration. Well if ... if for love of country I had to
speak of what I talk about this thing unclean.
Q. - I do not get the sense that?
ANSWER - No, I mean if I ...
Q. - If you did not report injuries?
ANSWER - If I had not reported at the time of the scuffle, I was able to
report an act so unworthy?
Q. - Of course, she now knows what were the statements of witnesses
because it took reading so this is something that was contested at the
time.
ANSWER - Yes, I remember perfectly.
Q. - But I do at this point to be the differences I have to do the dispute,
except in the sense that at the time I've ever seen someone who would
make a similar gesture and I must say the truth that the point of view is
that there is no logical just what you said, that means "for love of
country"?

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - What does President "From a logical

point"
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Do not (inaudible) comments free.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - It was not free to comment, the defendant
gave a justification, has given an explanation, which I asked why a study
does not convince me, as justification does not seem logical. He
referred ...
ANSWER - because it seems clear that it is deeply shameful for the police
behave like this (inaudible)
Q. - Perhaps the most infamous crack a head?
REPLY - But certainly, but of facts.
Q. - So what I wanted to ask, since she now tells us that it is true, but at
the time, not so blunt, perhaps even more resolute than the rest.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - So says fantasy.

Q. - This is very good thanks Lawyer. Even fantasy, as ever, because after
all it was not a failure, was a reprehensible behavior so much so
outrageous, reprehensible.
ANSWER - (inaudible) was a behavior unworthy of a person wearing a
uniform with dignity.
Q. - Many things have happened in that thing, in that school are unworthy
of a person wearing the uniform with honor. The problem is figuring out
who made them and why, and that's what we're doing. She made the
statements during the investigation in a sense, subverted, saying today
that what we have challenged us, which she said had not seen, today tells
us that he saw. So these people who claimed to have seen this coital act,
they've seen it done by people who had made just before and responsible
for the beatings that many have been shown to have its own uniform, that
is what she wore.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - President objection to this

question, because the person, a witness who relates these events says
"Then someone came down and made this gesture," says absolutely that
it was a person.

PRESIDENT - Let the minutes and read what is written.

Q. - So Albrecth heads "as I have described is the way we were beaten,

this systematically one after another, that is not going to happen that you
beat, but you really took the time to everyone, that is for one person who
is sitting or lying down, full of blood, to get back there before to beat him
again, as I lived I was very busy, that the police were very committed to
humiliate us, especially for us to understand their contempt, that is There
was yet another situation that I was very firmly in mind, I think it was after
they had finished the orgy of us beaten, that a policeman in a macho way
with legs spread that he had been before this lady who was lying in front
of me, "read literally, the translation" He touched his genitals and moved
his pelvis back and forth in front of his face and turned to me and also
made the same gesture. At that time he said something that obviously did
not understand. After someone shouted, yelled at me, she wanted
something special for me, that is what he wanted anyway he took my hair,
took my hair holding my head and crushing it sideways on the ground. It
was at that moment that there are more peaks, but after it happened I
had just told, we were just a bunch of people scared, we were afraid that it
would continue ... "etc. and this is the report but there are Albrecht others
that refer Albrecht never speaks of the way people dressed in civilian
clothes on that plane, but only to people in uniform which is described as
we know. So this is my question, my request to him, before whom I would
like you to take a stance.
REPLY - But I've already made my statement about them.
Q. - So confirms that it has seen this act, but brought into being a person
who did not belong to its core?
ANSWER - Yes, and also severely reprimanded. But after, after, after.
Q. - When and in any case beyond the fact of having rebuked not indicate
there would know, could not say who it was?
ANSWER - Absolutely not.
Q. - then I can describe physically?
RESPONSE - Mountain I remember this, a fat man, fat.
Q. - Uhm was dressed as?
ANSWER - Doctor.
LAWYER - in uniform or?
ANSWER - No, no I was already answered in civilian lawyer.
Q. - No has already said it was in plain clothes. Do not you remember?
ANSWER - I do not remember. But she has no idea how many orders I
make public within a year. That is how I remember faces special.
Q. - I have no idea that an episode of which he had never talked about it
today after six years, so I am entitled to ask for further information and
details.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, but no one takes it from him this right to charity, God
forbid.
Q. - And 'an event that in itself should be subjected to a screening of
credibility.
REPLY - But on this there are other witnesses who also give my reaction
eh. I see that ...
Q. - Yes, there Stibler which reports that "After that you are no longer
beaten on the first floor, were across the hall, the other a different scale,
87 of the transcript of the deposition of Stibler.
PRESIDENT - Minutes of the hearing then?
Q. - Yes. "One of these policemen was put in front of an injured person has
made a move and vulgar," "What kind of move? Can you describe? "Says
he is touched - it is the interpreter who is responding - saying that it fell
short, his genitals and moved his pelvis back and forth." "This has led to
the intervention of someone - asking the prosecutor - then the police
officer who first yelled, 'Stop' asked this policeman to stop" this is another
statement that makes this another heads up on this episode . Listen, you
said that your first entering the building, the conquest was to take place
from the upper floors of the building falling down. She was actually
stopped on the first floor, but others of his so I got on the higher floors?
ANSWER - I assume.
Q. - He got to meet again coming down the stairs, to share with their
impressions?
ANSWER - No, no, no absolutely not, because ...
Q. - On what happened?
ANSWER - Why, because there is a logical path: I had given the order to
expel all of them, then the school shortly after there was no one because
they are all out. I stayed with the girl, the girl with the ... the first floor, for
this is logical because it was one of my to make a gesture, an obscene
gesture long after they were all out. Excuse me if I return to that particular
first, to provide further clarification.
Q. - (inaudible)
ANSWER - (inaudible) that the episode of the obscene gesture ...
Q. - Tucci But no, there?
ANSWER - I Tucci holds it because I was in serious difficulty at the moment
frankly. Humanly speaking, I preferred to have one of my close c'avevo
this while I assumed that he was dying.
Q. - I watched them in their gym?
ANSWER - No, no, no beginning for a moment I took the stairs now, I have
not noticed, I have noticed that it was a gym that I've already said.
Q. - During the entry noted that part of its core was also directed at the
gym?
ANSWER - No, but honestly I have not seen even occupying the beginning
when I entered the first floor ... the ground floor.
Q. - You saw that during the tasks of breaking through the gate that we
reviewed earlier?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - With images of the specimen 199 and is there any in place which
breaks through the window pane?
ANSWER - If he did, he did very badly.
Q. - You do not know if it was right or wrong, however, was just wondering
if you saw and if you remember this?
ANSWER - No, I do not remember.
Q. - This noise ... why did it hurt?
ANSWER - Because there is no reason.
Q. - Uhm can specify because there is no reason.
ANSWER - Well there's no reason to break a glass, there is no reason, in
that context I assume there is not a reason, if you're forcing a door, unless
it is a glass door, breaking a glass side does not make sense, given that it
is a public property, I mean not even know.
Q. - I do not know who?
REPLY - That was ... operators that this was a public property, because it
was a school.
Q. - Well you could say this goes well.
ANSWER - Once, after Doctor after.
Q. - was written on.
ANSWER - Later, later.
Q. - But it is rather curious because some witnesses report that many of
these players also broke windows on the floors and many doors were
smashed and that a witness always on the first floor, of which I can quote
the generality and it is always VISEL.
ANSWER - If I am not mistaken the first floor there was no broken glass, I
do not remember honestly.
Q. - There is talk of Viselst, talk about kicking doors smashed by the
operators.
ANSWER - This is a different matter, on the broken door there may be a
reason to see who's behind it, this is a different matter, but the breaking
of a glass that has no function remains an act ...
Q. - You do not remember seeing breakthrough?
ANSWER - Absolutely not.
Q. - doors open at the action?
ANSWER - No, no, no.
Q. - What we have described above?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Why is strange, because this text that I quote now Ghiser Roland
Michel in his sketch that we saw earlier, indicating that the cross
references right to a door that was smashed on top of him, where he was
on the ground.
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - It indicates the existence of curse.
ANSWER - No, no I have not had smashed doors of perception in that
context, if there was it was before I arrived.
Q. - What is, however, one of the first to reach her?
REPLY - Oh well this tells her.
Q. - No, it did she say?
ANSWER - No I did not tell me.
Q. - And 'was the seventh, eighth, ninth.
ANSWER - I explained in the questioning queue, every time when I said
that I could be the seventh or eighth, which re-evaluating the position of
the film I could no longer rely on mnemonics that perception, if you want
me to say that the seventh or eighth ehhh.
Q. - It is also recalled another incident that can hit it up in the gym or any
place on the ground floor of which has already been said before?
REPLY - But if I had seen anything out of the corner of the eye in those
moments of confusion, but I think at the end of essermene realized that
there was an elderly person who had been beaten. This I remember.
Among other things, is something that has also been significant press
coverage.
Q. - Going back to the time of entry, you spoke of an entrance that took
place in a time-consuming, but when I first asked if I have already
received, if received acts of resistance or throwing objects, I said no .
ANSWER - No.
Q. - This specifically relates to the phase of the input, so I understand that
if you did not enter one of the first came after other, as long as she has
entered, has not seen this flying objects?
ANSWER - No I have not received. Keep in mind that I had still not
received even a helicopter on, on the school.
Q. - What in fact at that time was not there.
ANSWER - No, the Overing, there was the Overing.
Q. - Then, later.
ANSWER - also takes into account 48 hours of wakefulness, then well,
maybe some fog around there should be no?
Q. - That is blurred, but if you take a bottle on his head or on the shield
are hardly aware of even after 48 hours no?
REPLY - But look here are so accustomed to not receive ...
Q. - Oh I see.
ANSWER - For me there is not an important fact, I can not even realizing it,
we usually draw on paper with bombs, with bolts, so a bottle goes as a ...
Q. - This is also a new word, what does that mean?
ANSWER - No, I mean ...
Q. - What can it be that it was derived from flying objects and not noticed
it?
ANSWER - No, no, no I have not received them, but my perception at that
time does not mean that could have happened, because I can not
essermene noticed, is not new.
Prosecutor Dr. Cardona - Okay. I would have finished the exam.

Prosecutor: Doctor Zucca

Q. - I would ask just two points, because I say I have taken note of this
important correction. Doctor she was not spared either in the footsteps of
the minutes which were read back to now no dispute at the hearing, was
not spared of the strong opinions at times of indignation in short, there are
value judgments that say she expresses giving an account of his
experience that night. I would understand a thing she did today on this
important contradicted his previous statements, however, settling on a
fairly clear perception, which is that of exclusion that people who saw her
hit so senselessly, so fiercely did not belong to his department. Now he
has just finished making a clarification on the perceptions of uncertainty
and little trust in situations that situation, Doctor Note the helicopter, 10
hours and so on ...
ANSWER - 48.
REQUEST - It 's pretty accurate, it was now safe, do not exclude that in
that state of semi-darkness that the people she had ... today testified she
must have been seen in those actions, not by police were not his
department, she was challenged to say the entrance of her fast enough to
reach the first floor in rather quick time we say, means that on the basis
of What then, you have this security exception that the people she has
seen people beat fiercely, they were not his department?
ANSWER - Why did not wear a uniform.
Q. - Yes, I made the assumption the (inaudible) in the sense that
ANSWER - Yes, but I mean it was a fairly simple situation in that case.
QUESTION - Do not wear the uniform of the "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - the "Seventh Unit."
Q. - or not to wear a uniform?
ANSWER - I have already said that eh I do not remember if there were four
or five people definitely two wore a uniform of the Mobile Unit with white
belt and two with bib.
Q. - And two with bib. You said the stages of input, I did not even seeing
the movie, if you said that at that stage of entry, among people just
entered the top spots with the harness, that is not in uniform.

ANSWER - No, there are, you see some, surely there is someone who
comes in with ... with ... with white belt for example.
Q. - No, no white belt okay but I can understand, even for an insider as
you can that even in semi darkness does not distinguish good from a dark
blue belt of the "Seventh core" but the currency is grossly the same words
and stands well the person is in civilian clothes, that is, with the harness?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes.
Q. - So what if we do not see many people apparently get in the lead that
are in plain clothes, in harness, that is ...
ANSWER - Well there are people with shiny helmet and can not be inferred
if they are in harness, seeing only a helmet and rest and then it seems to
me that the image to see a harness that goes well.
Q. - You said, I have to say because she also said "I have excluded" is
talking about on page 22 entry "I have ruled that there was a group in
civilian clothes, that's the only thing I can be excluded in respect of access
to people, I exclude that one can not rule out anything because the image
seems to say that I was not (inaudible) access where I was I do not think
there were people in civilian clothes me. " That is, this I do not share this
banal assertion that she was seeing the movie, now tells us that someone
has broken into that stage.
ANSWER - I really what I said on the first floor and in any case ...
Q. - No, no we have the ...
ANSWER - In any case, there is also the entrance, there is also the side
entrance.
Q. - So it has already been challenged in the investigation is a fact that is
objective, which can be reconstructed from the breaking of the central
door, and the breaking of the side entrance on the left spend about forty
seconds, if you put it there for 30 go up more or less.
ANSWER - 30 ... 30 to go up, but the entrance that was 30 seconds.
Q. - Doctor will not insist on this point, my colleague has already done to
specify the time, but I take a conclusion in the sense that access to the
floor, once you enter, say the building instinctively goes to the upper floor
and then in that 'attitude, in that emotional charge even when she was,
that he walked like a quick step toward the goal that you mentioned were
the upper floors? And 'this correct?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - then we must assume, based on what you said today, as saying that
there was a race over it, so here you should have seen ...
ANSWER - This I have not said that (inaudible)
Q. - Okay, saw the stage approach, as he climbed the stairs, people in
civilian clothes and overtake people in the Mobile Unit with white belt?
ANSWER - No, I could exclude it, but I do not remember directly, but I am
not absolutely rule it out.
Q. - Okay, perfect, then try to explain to the Court and say get this
curiosity. She was then Vice Added Quaestor not as capable?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Oh, then there is no man who commands there, she goes there for
moral support, but he grades Vice Questore Added this flood and there is
the entrance to the building, her grades do not lose them independently
of men's departments that have close, the fact that there were white belts
or crushed people in civilian clothes, what, what difference did it for her in
that situation?
ANSWER - A party to an immediate cessation of violence, that I did this I
did.
Q. - And you, excuse me, ceased at that moment from his duties of the
Judicial Police?
ANSWER - No, sorry but she probably does not know public policy.
Q. - No.
ANSWER - Here.
Q. - No.
ANSWER - Since I do nothing.
Q. - No, I do not go to the stadium, then that is ...
ANSWER - No, no I do not believe me here is not an easy matter, is not a
complicated matter, but it is a difficult matter, when, when the official
department of public policy is, quite often the interventions to calm men
and it is then that every time they can go to complain?
Q. - No.
ANSWER - Why is it that sometimes they did the surplus.
Q. - I'm sorry ...
ANSWER - It allows, no se me a question, I must, I must do to complete if
not.
Q. - Yes, yes, please, please continue.
ANSWER - I can continue in that context I had no perception of the
damage, the damage that this kind of situation he had created, I had only
seen this situation, a situation if we are serial, it can happen that people
who fidget, but I do not I realized what had happened. And then imagine
her in that if I can can stop them, I had a similar episode with an Inspector
and I have been denounced in the end.
Q. - Well, no one does ...
Answer - and then forget it ...
Q. - One is to say, excuse me, but one makes her as she says no.
ANSWER - I do my, I do it for a long time.
Q. - Okay, bear the consequences, but if it believes that doing the right
thing does it not?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Why on page 35 of the minutes of the transcripts of his first
interrogation, she says, and you say "Why did you even had to work hard
to stop people," she said "No, no for me is not just a matter of ethics is a
ontological fact, that is a fact, "but this does not mean the it was said," It
does not mean that history demonstrates that such a thing could happen,
that people do not obey. " "It did not happen, it did not happen, because
anyone who had done this thing, he would find a complaint to the judicial
authorities and subsequent disciplinary action and this just rule it out
categorically."
ANSWER - Why, because it was identified, one of my mass in that I would
have complained.
Q. - This is for charity but here she also has this task and the questions
that we ...
ANSWER - Unfortunately I (unintelligible)
Q. - He also has the task of presenting his comments today, as more
credible than those of yesterday and in general as credible, then I may I
also ask questions to test his credibility and that the Court should provide
for its reconstruction is still a step ahead to save the honor, but here the
love of our country seems to be the love of the homeland "Seventh core"
not the love of our country in general, so who here now to save this
picture, only the "Seventh core "that is charged here or everyone else, but
because you could definitely think that she is here to make this
withdrawal, denial, which was denied by dozens of witnesses who have
also placed in this room, as the injured parties and therefore have come
here to lend a hand to colleagues who are with her in the dock, then you
have to offer as well say this and in this sense wondering why this turn
that leads her to exclude violence from members of his department.
ANSWER - I do not rule out that it could ever happen that someone has
exceeded even the department, somewhere, not in front of me, that I can
not exclude. Do not rule it out.
Q. - You were ... I'm not to repeat the accusations that he made my
colleague on the description of the witnesses of the same scene.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - But it was to pick them up, hear this Mobile Unit with white belt why?
ANSWER - I have not the faintest idea where it came from.
Q. - But a commander of the "Seventh Unit" and more like her as a
Commander Dr. Singers, Commander of the First Mobile Unit in Rome, that
if they were just unaware of who they were white belts that we have
reconstructed sti ...
ANSWER - we were.
Q. - Were mostly belonging to the First Mobile Unit in Rome, that she sees
Dr. Troiani and recognized on the scene? What was there to do there? Also
(inaudible) of his degrees from Vice Added Quaestor.
ANSWER - I know nothing about. I have already said.
Q. - No, and is not, there was the problem?
ANSWER - Why do I have to ask, sorry.
Q. - After what you saw? After what he has seen, that the excesses on the
part of this staff?
REPLY - But I have not traced the presence of Dr. Troiani personnel of the
Department of Mobile (inaudible)
Q. - But he has someone, well someone has reported that these excesses.
Well someone has reported these excesses she testified or not?
ANSWER: - Well certainly not the Doctor Trojans whom I have crossed.
Q. - Who told?
ANSWER - We talked to the Commander, we talked about. And then we
continued to work.
Q. - Look me in the report because it means she does is July 26 report that
has been done when the meat of the press at least, the administrative
investigation announced, pointing to the "Seventh Unit" as the core of the
quotation marks "for the massacres "and all the others were doing as she
does now. And 'stuff' Seventh core "they are responsible for what
happened. Here, at the time, at that stage when she stretches out her
report, because in his report does not refer to these excesses, which she
was entitled because he could not relate to mention the men of his unit
and had service actions.
ANSWER: - Well I was told ... was the intent of not causing further harm to
the administration of ... to continue to throw mud.
Q. - Well I'm sorry you will have read or heard, if he has read all the
reports of witness statements, will also read the reports of its team
leaders, who did not hesitate to describe rather numerous scenes of
excess, such as those you now represented for the first time at the
hearing.
ANSWER - I felt, I assume that those decisions are strictly personal.
Q. - So we can say that his report of 26 is a false report?
ANSWER - No, not a false report is a report on.
Q. - on Ah? That relationship, that relationship that ends with this ...
ANSWER - It is a service record to begin with.
Q. - No, the above narrative closes his report, sets out in detail everything
that I could see, feel and live in the report, that is, of pathos, however,
that hides a bit 'too much. She concludes the report.
ANSWER - I think that I behaved humanly correctly though. What do you
think.
Q. - I think that in this ...
ANSWER - Do you think ...
Q. - Here ... not be judged in human terms, is judging in terms of violations
of law and my questions are not designed to understand why she invested
with control functions did not prevent the events that take place in front of
his eyes.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - The accused has made it clear
that it has intervened several times when he saw something. I do not
know ... But ...
CHAIRMAN - We have all understood what he said the accused.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - President Well, that question, I do
not know the meaning of the question.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - is not a question then a comment.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - It 's just a comment.
Zucca Prosecutor DOCTOR - I asked the accused to take a stand: I asked
him why he does not mention this in his report, which is the report as I
read in the last sentence in detail.
PRESIDENT - Detailed as to have said about all that ...
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - All right and then right again and you said
that in this case has been silent. Thank you.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tartarini

Q. - I ask only a few details, she said that her first task in that situation
was to control the use of men and did not operate in compliance. We
confirmed that his role was that, then he also said that I have already
pointed out that the Public Ministry, which like "Seventh core" as it were
your role, however, your mode of operation in such situations is ... was to
go and conquer the upper floors, so ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes, if not (inaudible)
Q. - through the other?
ANSWER - Technically, the lawyer explain: if it was or was not a belt or was
the conquest of the upper floors, is obviously one of the upper floors,
there are two ways in this case.
Q. - So you have not belted, then we assume that the State (inaudible)
ANSWER - No, then I saw one of the Carabinieri.
Q. - No, no later then. Well then we can assume she him to confirm that
the "Seventh Unit" once had the opportunity to enter the school will be
directed up the stairs to the upper floors?
ANSWER - The upper floors.
Q. - Very well. Another explanation, she says at one point that comes out
when school is responsible for the transport of those arrested?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Why have your own transport required? Because I want to know, who
asks the media and when she is told by the people arrested were to be
transported, they were under arrest?
ANSWER - No, therefore I want to clarify if it is, if you were held, if they
were in detention or arrest of this stranger. The order, the provision is
given by the Master Singers who had spoken with some of the police
officer.
Q. - Well dovevan and tells her that getting people on your media?
ANSWER - Yes, no, there was carella because usually these services.
Q. - No, no, but I understand.
ANSWER - Yes
Q. - But she wondered what state these people were, as they were carried
on the means and not left empty?
ANSWER - No, no transport, I must say at least the ones we brought were
in good physical sense because clearly they would use ...
Q. - No, thank you for human attention, but my question was directed to a
specification, ie people who are put on your media, evidently not in a
state of freedom?
ANSWER - Yes of course.
Q. - So that she thought in this situation?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - As required and the means were somehow restricted?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Very well. One last question: Inspector Tucci was present at the scene
of the mime that we talked about before?
ANSWER - I think so, no ... I would not swear, I think so. Because it was the
time when the company was holding me to this girl.
Q. - In fact I had this thought. One last question a bit 'more general, since
she still made some comments and I must say it was the first in this
audience to make them, the role of the State Police, on what should be
the role of the State Police. Her interrogation of 2001 page 44, makes a
number of technical considerations on how she would perform the
operation, and as has been done. And at some point also speaks of
spectacularly meaningless operation. Here, I wish he was doing precisely
these considerations, and explain to us what it's like a show devoid of
meaning?
REPLY - But look what I think was the redundancy, the excessive presence
of police, and I'm the first to tell you how I did. I would start a negotiation,
maybe I did not expect, and then slowly steps would be taken to the
identifications, that was ... my idea, as I have seen dozens of times, that is
the patience of the pressures of public policy. All that strength, all
quell'accorrere seemed disproportionate to the need, but this is a finding
that ex post do today and that is what it's worth.
Q. - No, but as already gave in 2001?
ANSWER - Yes, but I've always given, I have always given to the merger,
however, surely the same objectives could have been, could be achieved
in a non-bloody.
Q. - Okay.
ANSWER - I think so, I think.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tartarini - No further questions thank you. Watch
one final question really is: that evening we have already explained why
the public prosecutor has decided not to inform judicial authorities and not
with recommendations for unknown episodes for which he had witnessed.
Eh ... you were in service for 48 hours?
ANSWER - I was meant to be 48 hours in fact (inaudible)
Q. - You have made public duty in the streets. She has assisted in other
situations at that time, in activities of ... carried out by his men that they
could be brought to the attention of the Judicial?
ANSWER - No, no not really, there were moments when it was needed ...
a ... a rigid and strong technique of detention, which then because of that
speech aid has helped us a lot, but not sensational episodes I remember.
For public policy, unfortunately, is never bloodless, once generated,
especially when it is degenerate, as unfortunately has degenerated in
Genoa.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tartarini - Okay, thanks.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tambuscio

Q. - Do you remember saying to the Commander Canterini a phrase like

"With these no longer work?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Q. - I want to, we want to explain?
ANSWER - It was a phrase referring to those who had made himself the
author of a transaction scope to those consequences, that seems obvious
to me.
Q. - Yes, of course, I asked him if he remembers under what
circumstances.
ANSWER - Here we go, when I told you, watch out when I told him we
stood on the floor ... in the yard, I was frankly disgusted and worried,
because I am in the next few days, I always believed that the girl would
probably be dead.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tambuscio - Thank you any other question.
ANSWER - Thanks to her lawyer.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Rossi

Q. - I would like to see them, review an image that we saw earlier in the
time of entry to focus on one particular in the main lobby of the Diaz
school, where we see him slowly. It 's the finding 239 part 2 and three
seconds zero 4. Here are stopping at this picture over the helmet of the
first person who enters.
ANSWER - Yes
Q. - Do you see ...
ANSWER - It 's a thud.
Q. - Here?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - This Tonfa that recognizes the fact that ...
ANSWER - It 's made a "T".
Q. - The "T" in this case would be the handle?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Well then this is her second Tonfa challenged orthodox way?
ANSWER - No, at this time is ... is not ... is not ... is not contested shall we
say, incorrectly, because if you see this is actually bypassing, is bypassing
an axis, not being used by ... not being used with the intention of hitting
someone, it is clear, is not bypassing ...
Q. - But then while his men use ... we say that is not physically use to
public policy, can also hold it down, that there is a standard grip?
ANSWER - No, no, no, no.
Q. - Even at rest in ...
ANSWER - No, no, apart from not using it more, we have it, we have not
made use of the Tonfa, but not a different use is a use, misuse.
Q. - So at this time is that which does?
REPLY - Oh but no ... Lawyer allow me there is also the situation, if one
takes in a certain way inside, according to a police station and not
different, here is bypassed, is not beating anyone.
Q. - No, no, no one says that he is beating anyone.
ANSWER - No, the inconsistent, the discrepancy is related to the fact that
it is working, this is just bypassing, but if you tell me if there if there was a
demonstrator in front, I would not hesitate to say and I could sense that c
'is the intent of hitting, certainly is a misuse.
Q. - That she also said that when used in Tonfa say the right side, then
successfully challenged, just used to hit on the head, can have very
serious consequences and even death?
ANSWER - (inaudible) of the bones.
Q. - When used in reverse can have even worse consequences?
REPLY - But look, I must say that the Tonfa also between the correct and
incorrect use is not much difference is very dangerous.
Q. - I understand. And here is her last in this situation, at this juncture in
which he said had entered the seventh, eighth, then maybe after seeing
the movie, however, and was among the first to enter, he saw his people
in his department use, that is, hold, hold the Tonfa in this way? Do you
remember?
ANSWER - No, I do not remember this sincerely. I do not remember, but
here's one person I repeat, however, when ... the act of climbing a ... a ...
Q. - She's never seen this man?
ANSWER - This gentleman who passed over, taking into account ...
Q. - He has not seen, has not seen the Tonfa other challenge in this way.
ANSWER - You saw him?
Q. - No, I do not question her.
ANSWER - No I have not seen, I have not seen.
Q. - One last question, you said that you got there and did not even know
what a garage would go ...
ANSWER - Yes, like an abandoned factory, something ...
Q. - At first she said it was illegally occupied?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - I do not understand if it's your impression?
ANSWER - No, no, no ...
Q. - Or if someone said instead?
REPLY - That was a story that was given, that is ...
APPLICATION - To whom?
ANSWER - In a ... we were given by the Master Singers that had been
reported by someone else, it seems to me by Dr. Donnini, the chain of
phone calls and the news that I am unknown, but the news was just that I
assumed, also making reference to the black block there was something
apart, not ... but that had nothing to do with a facility like school, thought
to ...
Q. - So Canterini added the adjective illegally occupied?
ANSWER - Yes, I do not remember how did this thing honestly. Just did not
expect to go to the office of the Genoa Social Forum, I tell you this, that
was the official headquarters of the Genoa Social Forum, I learned a few
days later from the newspapers. I think I have given you an answer.
Q. - after you have entered in the school that gave us his time to cross the
entrance, in time to 30 seconds was already on the first floor.
ANSWER: - Keep in mind that the bulk, the big slowdown I do not have it in
in the path between the lobby and first floor. E 'input that is difficult,
which is very laborious, then fairly quickly after that I took the first floor.
Q. - is that she has entered in an environment I think it was an open
environment, this gym ...
ANSWER - I was not aware as I ...
Q. - One does not even realize that there is a gym. Here's how she did
understand that the stairs were on the left rather than right? That is, they
already knew where the stairs?
ANSWER - No, no, no.
Q. - or knew where to go?
ANSWER - Absolutely I followed, I saw a group of people who went in that
direction and I went there. I did not ... I had no, no perception of how the
structure of the school was in Diaz.
Q. - So you followed?
ANSWER - I have only the blind ...
Q. - He followed?
ANSWER - I went to (unintelligible) in the dark, I went below to the current.
REQUEST - The current of his colleagues who were climbing?
ANSWER - Yes, of people going up to, of all types.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Rossi - I understand. With no further questions.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Multedo

Q. - I wanted to know some clarification on Dr. Canterini when she, when
she told us this morning that he was on the first floor there was this girl
wound. Singers with Dr. when it arrives you said was right behind me,
when it comes, she is all that is on the first floor?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, no help is already on the job this girl, arrives a little
later, after that is enough.
Q. - And you had already removed the helmet?
ANSWER - Yes, but I do not look at me the helmet took off almost
immediately, as soon as soon as soon as I realized that the situation had
not occurred in front of dangerous people, I took off the helmet, as always
do in order not to frighten the public, not to ...
Q. - You eh sorry you said that you took off your helmet to say the phrase
"Enough, enough"
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - because people feel, Dr. Canterini said he had heard this "Enough,
enough," he realized that he was nearby?
ANSWER - No, I have not noticed, I felt his presence, perhaps he was
downstairs.
Q. - This "Enough, enough" could be heard even on the floor below?
ANSWER - I do not know him know this does not mean, I cried, I cried and
then I want to say, also rather strong, because in fact it was screams of
dispute have been with these guys.
Q. - No Canterini also told us that she has given the order to put the Tonfa.
ANSWER - I gave him ... yes, the ... the order is contextual "Put Baton
immediately, the Tonfa and exit immediately" this is the order I have given
"and called the ambulance on the first floor, serious person."
Q. - This is but to those who gave the order to put the Tonfa?
ANSWER - To my men.
Q. - Then there were his men?
ANSWER - No, oh no, they were in the whole school and I was connected
to the radio, had the radio on all operators in the department had a radio
with which I could write the rules, I said "Get out immediately all" .
Q. - I'm sorry but he had taken off his helmet? We said a moment ago?
REPLY - Oh well a helmet ...
Q. - And how did he do?
ANSWER - The helmet, the helmet, the helmet is not mine an intercom,
that is just a radio with headphones, not ... take off my helmet has no
meaning to speak on the radio.
Q. - I mean so she gave him a voice shouting?
ANSWER - No, I said "Enough, enough" to the violence to which I was
seeing at that moment, I then started to realize what was happening,
seeing the seriousness of people who were there and the radio, with the
radio that was equipped with a throat microphone and a headset, I said
"Put the means of physical coercion and dropped out of school
immediately," this was the order I gave. On time and was assured
precisely because they are all out.
QUESTION - is this place the order she Tonfa by without seeing his men?
ANSWER - No, it do not see my men.
Q. - And how, how does he know that his men are using the Tonfa, Tonfa of
the store if you do not see?
ANSWER - It 's the only means of physical force that may have, may have
to be deceived, be deceived by a representation of reality, which was not
such as I then was able to perceive, I said "Get all" I assume that during
an operation using it. I had no video connection seems obvious to me, I
had a wireless connection and I wanted to make him out, this is clear and
it happened.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Taddei

Q. - No the meantime I wanted to ask her while he has already said this,
but if you can remember that title, particularly if he can describe, in his
uniform if these grades were either not identifiable?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, because I was highly visible among other things, that
night, not wearing the uniform they used all the participants in the Mobile
Unit, let's say that I used, because the two previous summer I had used
were divided almost to wash, and then bringing their grades Vice
Questore Added on his shoulders.
Q. - is that ...
ANSWER - Distinguibilissimi, two stars and a tower.
Questions - I wanted to see a picture that has already gained the hearing
that the file is the finding that 120 is the photo that relates to the previous
days.
ANSWER - Yes
Q. - I wanted to ask if you recognize this photo?
ANSWER - Yes, it's me, me, me.
Q. - So here we say that the badge is visible below the word Police is the
one that relates to their personal levels?
ANSWER - Yes, exactly.
Q. - Here, wearing this uniform?
ANSWER - The night of the Diaz no, I was wearing the night of the Diaz the
other currency is a currency that is lightweight and has the grades on the
rails on their shoulders.
Q. - I understand. Turning for a moment instead to the facts, therefore, I
just wanted to ask a question, say in relation to the initial stages. She tells
us that when he arrived at the gate?
ANSWER - It was broken.
Q. - It was broken at that moment he noticed the presence of officers in
plain clothes? Like the ones mentioned earlier?
ANSWER - Yes, immediately after, yes, yes, I recognized there were
certainly some official, but now the procedure from before and after, of
course I remember the Prefect La Barbera.
Q. - This is Dr. Luperi?
ANSWER - I think so.
Q. - The Doctor Gratteri?
REPLY - But do not ... yes, yes.
Q. - The Doctor Murgolo? Saw him at that stage there?
ANSWER - Murgolo yes, yes, Murgolo I saw it, was so Murgolo but I also
saw the end of the service then.
Q. - This is the stage and given the order to break through the gate you by
who ever heard?
ANSWER - I am not able to say poterglielo.
Q. - At that stage there were these officials?
REPLY - Oh, yes there were all those who say there were definitely the
Prefect La Barbera and others, but now place them honestly are not able
to say poterglielo Lawyer. I do not remember honestly. There were too
many.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Taddei - Very well, thank you.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Shepherd

Q. - I wanted to ask you some details regarding the composition, function

and the phase of arrival of the two groups in which it was divided by the
"seventh core"?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So starting with this, here is the first decision to split the group into
two, two ... sorry in advance can say how many were there?
REPLY - But about sixty, even a little bit less likely 57 at the end, I do not
remember, about sixty anyway.
Q. - Including or excluding department heads?
ANSWER - Included.
Q. - Also, department heads who are they?
ANSWER - Heads team.
Q. - Chiefs team pardon, which if well ... there were seven
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - I think it has said before.
ANSWER - There is to be excluded drivers who remain on board the
means.
Q. - You no I asked her what was that we are talking about these two
groups are formed, I asked ...
ANSWER - Look the reason ...
QUESTION - If you are unable to say how many people held them apart
from the drivers?
ANSWER - Let's say it was a ... Master Singers of the column had to be
four teams if I remember correctly, my three, but not the basis on which
they had, had given rise to this sharing them unknown in the most
absolute way.
Q. - Well, but who informed him that they should make such an allocation?
ANSWER - Well he told me that Dr. Canterini just introduced this official
Digos di Genova.
REQUEST - It 's always been Dr. Canterini decide who was in a group or
another? How was the division?
REPLY - But no choice was (inaudible) or to one side or the other, he went
with Dr. Mortola.
Q. - No I'm not saying you two because I imagine that you two were ...
ANSWER - No, no, no no ...
Q. - ... obvious that if one goes on the one hand, the other goes the other.
ANSWER - No, no teams, the teams were the teams are completely
fungible, there was probably already has been the position of the media
as we had arranged to have ...
Q. - (inaudible)
ANSWER - given this ... there was none, no specific studies on this.
Q. - That she is able to tell who were the captains who were with her?
REPLY - But certainly with me was the inspector in place that we are
always together in public order situations. The other, others honestly do
not remember how it was composed of the column.
Q. - Then I will do a challenge, or rather recall what she had said, we are
always interviewing which has been recorded so far on page 11 "I
certainly remember the column of the Inspector, the team - and then
corrects himself - Team Inspector Inspector Cenni and even the
Superintendent of Aliens, the third I can not remember unfortunately. "
Reminds him to ask if you now ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - And 'can confirm that ...
ANSWER - Yes, I remember certainly place, the other I do not remember is
that ...
Q. - Q
ANSWER - So then he said foreigners, I'm wondering if the now ...
ANSWER - I do not remember.
Q. - On page 11 of the interrogation she said "I remember basically
Foreigners and Work, the third I can not remember."
ANSWER - Now I have to tell the truth, this is a particular foreign state will
not, however, puts me in trouble be able to confirm.
Q. - You do not.
ANSWER - I certainly remember a cooler, six years have passed.
Q. - So it is safe for foreigners even now, at the place is safe even now, on
Foreigners?
ANSWER - Yes, yes I've got some ...
Q. - Well.
ANSWER - I do not remember honestly.
Q. - That she then started, she saw from the other column, which is part of
the first two because I am now the question of whether ...
ANSWER - No, no, no ...
REQUEST - The request comes from the fact that I said ...
ANSWER - Simultaneously, we started simultaneously, but I do not
remember.
Q. - but as he spoke of means is stacked, one behind the other and that
this might be why some are finished ...
ANSWER - No I do not remember, but we are not the same parties within a
few short minutes at most.
Q. - But you saw from the other column, in particular Dr. Canterini?
ANSWER - I do not remember, I do not remember. No I do not remember.
Q. - Do not you remember. We come in when you arrive, then you have
already explained, of course not, I ask that you come from the right and
bottom than at the Diaz school. When you arrived there, the other column
was already there?
ANSWER - Yes, I remember it had already arrived.
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - But you remember those who have seen the other column?
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - You remember when there was already Canterini Doctor?
ANSWER - Yes, Dr. Canterini was already there because she was with that
column.
Q. - Why was he with that column?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So Dr. Canterini came up with that column, and she saw him there?
ANSWER - Yes, we meet again there.
QUESTION - I have seen? Did you meet again and there was Dr. Canterini
to give some explanation about what was happening, for example.
REPLY - Actually, he ...
Q. - But did you see?
ANSWER - knew little indeed.
Q. - No, no talk only about the breakthrough act of ... I do my implicit
reference.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, no look at the background I came when I was ending.
Q. - Yes, but he met Dr. Canterini?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And if I'm not mistaken the breakthrough was made with one of your
media? I seem to remember?
ANSWER - I think so, I think so, certainly half hour of the Mobile Unit do
not know if it were our own or others, however I think so.
Q. - Oh, and then found Dr. Canterini this? The other column that she had
come to know the other direction?
ANSWER - Yes, other ...
Q. - because ...
ANSWER - Sorry, being a pincer movement, had come across the street.
Q. - From the opposite direction, only that it was before you arrived?
ANSWER - Yes had arrived before us and because we had parked quite far
away, we had reached with some effort, actually the site, the goal.
Q. - And what was the position if he remembers the men who have
already found there, and Dr. Canterini?
ANSWER - No, no, look ...
Q. - With respect to ...
ANSWER - There was, there was already a number of police operations.
Q. - And for this reason that I ask?
ANSWER - Absolutely heterogeneous do not know can ...
Q. - And for this reason that I asked, as she points out that there was that
they were already present, if one remembers even though they were
scattered like to say in the midst of this salad was defined?
ANSWER - Yes, there was, there was a certain ...
Q. - Macedonia?
ANSWER - Yes, I remember.
Q. - And if that were scattered among the others or whether they were
compact with the orders.
ANSWER - I do not remember exactly, however, was the situation that
many times I have a little final 'chaotic, there was a bit' of everything
then.
Q. - Yes, yes, but it is precisely for this reason that I did demand to know
where they were her here. Look for another couple of questions because I
did not understand that the operation of this radio, but the question
because I do it to him at the last hearing Dr. Canterini there described him
in a somewhat 'different I kept saying the words I do not know if this radio
is something that breaks away from ... comes off, it sticks?
ANSWER - It is absolutely ... is not a motorcycle-type phone system, is a
radio that is put up here.
CHAIRMAN - Are you speaking of the larynx is not it?
ANSWER - Please?
PRESIDENT - the speech?
ANSWER - the speech where this radio has a throat microphone that is
placed here and then, you can also use the microphone and then which
has the advantage of the headset, it's all stuff of wires, it is not connected
to the helmet.
Q. - But then if one takes off his helmet's remains to the radio?
ANSWER - It is certain.
Q. - It is connected?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Except that you also remove the headset?
ANSWER - The headset at that point.
Q. - I understand. We do not understand, but what she said, now I
understand better. And listen when she fell in the yard.
ANSWER - A things done.
Q. - Excuse me?
ANSWER - A things done, ie after the operation.
Q. - Yes, yes, yes, yes, of course. When it comes down to the courtyard
from the first floor?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - All the things we said before. She and his men were already in the
yard?
ANSWER - They were already lined up all in the backyard and was
addressing them out because at that point became useless because the
situation had greatly overheated and then there was this need for
containment of one who was very angry and the other to begin to prepare
translations, translations, say the accompanying Bolzaneto.
Q. - That she has said before that you were that person to accompany him
if I remember correctly Bolzaneto said Dr singing again?
ANSWER - Yes, but I know that there had been a dispute about it, because
it is our institutional role.
Q. - It seems to me that even before it has touched. That's not, but I
wanted to know if this communication Dr. Canterini it to him has taken on
that occasion when she fell?
ANSWER - No, immediately after we met in the courtyard.
Q. - And then Dr. Canterini was with his men at that time?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes it was ...
Q. - What were deployed?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes.
Q. - And on that occasion did you have any comments? She asked his men
what had happened? What had happened?
ANSWER - No, at that moment, at that time there was just the time there
was the dynamic of the situation was evolving so that there was no time
to comment, it was necessary to secure the area, ie prevent the
demonstrators who had become numerous assumptions, to ensure there
was this blessed light, so in fact ...
Q. - So when she came despite everything we have said until now he had
seen on the first floor, not in any way ...
ANSWER - With Singers.
Q. - In what has commented terms with Singers?
ANSWER - I say "These do not work anymore," a phrase that was also
reported earlier by another (inaudible)
Q. - But that's because I'm not mistaken ... if Canterini
REPLY - He had seen ...
Q. - With her he had seen?
REPLY - He had seen what he had seen. (Inaudible)
Q. - And where Dr. Canterini arrives on the first floor?
ANSWER: - Well I said it to him ... I repeat, the situation was now ...

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Excuse the President has already

been asked at least four or five times that.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Pastor - No, if anything, the only one connecting
Multedo if I remember correctly before.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - No lo he asked before the
prosecutor.
PRESIDENT - Let's go forward.

ANSWER - It is still the Commander Singers came to the end has come,
that I was when I went off just before the ambulance arrived.
Q. - And one more question, okay, when she goes out so do not you say
anything?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Do not ask his men above all how it went?
REPLY - But I especially owe my men to give the new provisions, which is
what we must continue to do.
Q. - Okay, have risen above the larynx of communications? That is, you ...
ANSWER - No, that night, that night, no, not that night, but had been
given to officials Digos the speech because ...
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - A little is resumed ...
Q. - But then, excuse me?
ANSWER - Yes
Q. - Here are the officials Digos, first because she said she had no formal
command, correct me if I'm wrong ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - In the "Seventh Unit" on that occasion?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - But he had the larynx?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - He always kept active?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - You have heard some give orders to his men?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not, absolutely not.
Q. - Have Digos officials?
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - Did you see the officials of the Digos do something?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - When you came along with his men?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not.
Q. - Absolutely not. He heard some of his men to report something?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - For example, these various things which are written in the reports, for
example, what she saw, but let's say you are a captain, no one else has
said, "But here's ... thing going on, how should I do? "
ANSWER - No, but ... yes ...
Q. - For example I'm seeing a scene like the one you describe, describing
how his men in those relationships, "What should I do, I do my duties as a
public official to stop these people, denounce it, I turn them off, not turn
them off?" None of them reported in this way?
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - I mean you've been quiet all the time.
ANSWER - No, really I have spoken.
Q. - Yes
ANSWER: - Keep in mind that ...
Q. - No, okay now that his sentence is beyond dispute.
ANSWER - Yes, no, but do not repeat them to imagine a bowl without this
kind of operation and ...
Q. - I do not know.
ANSWER - ... the ex post assessment is certainly allows you to do many
evaluations, but also takes account of the excitement of that, short of
what had happened. Now the clarity of radio I have it I was probably the
team leaders. This I can not answer on non-use of the radio.
Q. - No, no I'm the only ...
ANSWER - On behalf of someone else.
Q. - No, I do not know, since I do not I had the larynx?
ANSWER - (inaudible) there were those communications that were not
mine, I (unintelligible) to go out immediately, unless there was just some
trivial, but unremarkable.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Pastor - No, no, no sense of this here. Okay
thanks.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Novaro

QUESTION - Listen now to speak about this last story. Reading the reports,
notes made by some of his colleagues: she has never felt particularly that
of Superintendent Ranieri I think. She has not heard an agent called
Liccardi screaming on the radio that there was a young man unconscious
and full of blood?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No. From the mechanism of communication between you, she always
had the radio on, so if there was a communication?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, absolutely yes.
Q. - Would he hear that?
ANSWER - If you want I'll explain how it works.
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - There is a closed mesh, in the sense that the use of radio to
enable the receiving of any operator, the operator, but operators,
operators who are only listening, can we say the talks occurred ... are
allowed to Commander and team leaders, except that there were ... of ...
Q. - Emergencies?
ANSWER - emergencies, this honestly, this communication does not
remember it.
Q. - Hm, Liccardi was part of that team?
ANSWER: - Well I do not remember.
Q. - Do not you remember. I feel I have a question, I try to go
chronologically so maybe it's easier to succeed in formulating it. The little
information that she received on how the actual conduct of the operation
has received only by the Master Singers?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You have not spoken to anyone else?
ANSWER - No, Mr Digos was laconic instinctively, that is not ... I have the
impression that even he, that is my deduction, that this fellow did not
even know that much.
Q. - But you have not commented with "What are we going to do" there
was?
ANSWER - Yes, I really honestly I was more annoyed.
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - because after 48 hours I had no desire to work, I can declare
this openly, there was indeed some object of my complaint at first,
perhaps because 48 hours are a bit 'a ... the staff was working from 6 am,
but also the Digos colleague did not know a damn thing, so I feel well.
Q. - Neither he asked her if she knew anything?
REPLY - Oh yes "But what are we going to do" eehhh I complained.
Q. - I understand.
REPLY - And I said "Well we know from how long have we been working
well" there was ...
Q. - Okay, listen to the insurrectionary anarchists spoke Dr. Canterini? He
used this term?
ANSWER - Yes, but I thought this story was speaking after he had been
given, is not ... I do not think that if it is invented.
Q. - But the term has been insurrectionary anarchists?
ANSWER - No, I'm not black block, now ...
Q. - I understand.
ANSWER - Forget the configuration block that is not Black ...
Q. - Look, she gave specific indications of his men on what attitude to
take, once you enter the school? In particular, a question of my colleague
Tartarini, she said: "There were possible ways, we had a belt or go up"
over this climb on the upper floor, she gave detailed instructions?
ANSWER - No, there was I did not, I did not.
Q. - He did not?
ANSWER - I did not have to give, truly was an intervention in the dark.
Q. - I understand. More specifically she said that the Superintendent
Foreigners had to reach the third floor?
ANSWER - I do not remember, but I might, I could averglielo said. Why
climb on the third floor is intended as the final plan, that is our dynamic, in
prisons, in the occupations of the apartments, the first thing you do, you
go on the top floors to subsidize, to avoid being thrown things.
Q. - I understand.
ANSWER - I could averglielo said.
QUESTION - Could averglielo say?
ANSWER - I do not ... but considering that the third, the last averglielo I
said quietly.
Q. - This is because it was a normal mode?
ANSWER - Yes, yes absolutely.
Q. - But she had acquaintance with those who would be on the third floor?
ANSWER - No, this is a different matter, always the last ... whatever the
type of person, and always on the top floor.
Q. - Yes
ANSWER - The top must be busy. Who was in it, unfortunately, we saw him
later.
Q. - So you did not say to the Superintendent of foreigners going to the
third floor because there are the most dangerous people "?
ANSWER - No, this ...
Q. - I exclude?
ANSWER - This rule it out, rule it out.
Q. - Why in the investigation but said it would, however, she excludes it
had made a statement of this kind.
ANSWER - Yes, yes I did not remember it, do not ...
Q. - Um listen, she described the school entry and so I have more
questions about them, but would like some more detail about the arrival
on the first floor, she said: "I've seen" repeated the phrases that to have
spoken in the immediacy, I would like some more detail on the type of
significant sentences and those conducted by her and put in place by the
people of the four or five thugs you mentioned, use your own words. What
kind of exchange of words there were and what kind of behavior?
REPLY - But the exchange was that of "Enough, enough" to say that the
exit will probably be a few sentences and representing them in here, there
was a push, fortunately it was realized that an official, after that. ..
Q. - Excuse me a shove it?
ANSWER - Between me and these guys have them right away.
Q. - Why were these groups in here?
ANSWER - There were four, now direct dynamic, four or five I do not
remember the dynamics.
Q. - No, but I need some further detail, in the sense that you see a hallway
to the sides where there are positioned a number of people?
ANSWER - There are some fights, I assume that the fights.
Q. - Oh, and does not ...
ANSWER - Interventions that later turn out to be rather one-sided, that is
(inaudible).
Q. - when he talks about unilateralism is what you referring to?
ANSWER - (inaudible)
Q. - Was there anyone who sticks?
ANSWER - In the sense that a detained and one gave her, I mean.
Questions - gave with what? With the clubs?
ANSWER - with batons, with the butts, and more.
Q. - You were watching how long this situation?
ANSWER - No, very little time to realize that this is not made safe in the
beating.
Q. - So then what does he rails against?
Answer - and then threw me against.
Q. - Against which of the four people?
ANSWER - (inaudible) "Enough, enough," Now do not ask me in that
moment of excitement not ... I can not do a total reconstruction.
Q. - So I ask: among these four people had someone who doggedly in
particular with the girl and then she goes to help first?
ANSWER - No, do not even have this perception of who you were keen on
the girl.
Q. - But there was someone who was certainly keen?
REPLY - Oh definitely yes, as a result I would say so. But at that moment I
can not say that I have seen exactly that she was subject to a path or
another. I've seen that in this darkness, I realized that these were
harmless and were absolutely Gaining a lot of blows and I've driven.
Q. - Here, however, she spoke of kicks, punches and beatings?
ANSWER - Yes eehhh unfortunately the footage is.
Q. - So something has focused. As these four were placed on the corridor?
ANSWER - I do not remember Attorney, do not ask me.
Q. - Oh, no I ask why it seems to me a significant detail to understand for
a moment?
ANSWER - They were piled up along the corridor is not there ... not the
dynamics, the dynamics are not able to reconstruct it accurately.
However, I had a cool head but I was able to reconstruct fairly
consistent ...
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - The location of the injured, but ...
Q. - Excuse me, I ask some detail why I think its important then, on the
assessment of its reliability of its statements. She lashed out at one of
these first?
ANSWER - No, against most people.
Q. - The more people?
Answer - and especially someone who was particularly hard, was now in
the ... at the darkest hour in front of which was that the bathrooms, if the
point where I can ...
Q. - Why were there more people?
ANSWER - Where I was there I felt that that was the darkest point where I
felt that it was not substantially more of a struggle but of violence.
Q. - Then she lashed out saying, "Stop."
ANSWER - Yes, "Enough, enough."
Q. - and shoving?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Oh, "Enough, enough" I said as he was throwing?
REPLY - Oh, yes, "Enough, enough," what you can do in a situation like
that.
Q. - I ask again is not it just a detail to compare it with the statements
instead of the victim. The "Enough, enough," she says as she engages in
some way a physical contact with these people?
ANSWER - Probably ...
QUESTION - does not say when ...
ANSWER - Probably comes first, comes after, is simultaneous, do not ask
me to redo a reconstruction, is not there is an intervention that effectively
stopped the violence and that then led to the rescue.
Q. - Here.
Answer - and that has agreed to make all men came from the holy school.
Questions - and answers that had these four? What did they say exactly?
ANSWER - Well in short there and then not have many degrees of this
posting, so to speak.
Q. - that is, Eh?
ANSWER - Never ... the usual things that can ...
Q. - But swearing, insults, too?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, okay what can happen in these circumstances, then
when will be realized, for whatever miracle that I was an officer have
given up. In return for which the work was done.
Q. - You had no way to identify them or thought?
ANSWER - No, there was ... was not ... was not possible.
Q. - But if she tells us ...
ANSWER - It was not possible because again, the excesses of staff during
public order have always existed, there was and unfortunately ...
Q. - Okay ... is a public official.
ANSWER - ... for this is a disease that does exist, and unfortunately will
always be up to the official if they are conscientious of groped to curb.
Well the fact of turning automatically investigator who must denounce his
fellow men, or so, there is one thing, is not a simple thing.
Q. - Um no I do not want to comment on. I want to ask instead: she had
identified members of the Furniture Department at least two of these
here?
ANSWER - Yes, presumably from his belt, on the understanding that they
could be anyone, still wearing the suit with the public policy white belt and
the other, one definitely had a harness and the other two, if there were
two I do not remember, but these memories are vague, ie not that lasted
a lifetime, a comparison was not what we had.
Q. - I understand. She did not think to report or otherwise refer to their
superiors?
ANSWER - No, I explained, I did not know who they were first told that
their superiors at that time and given what was, what was happening in
public opinion and against the police, I decided I preferred in that time
because the noise was so much to abstain.
Q. - Yes
ANSWER - Today, after six years in a more ... calmer I feel obliged to make
explanations.
Q. - Master Singers is but you said exactly what he had seen? She ... we
have this phrase "I do not want to work with them."
ANSWER - No I in Singers, Singers in I have not reported anything else for
what I said also to the Public Prosecutor.
Q. - Sorry, song appears on the stage at some point of the story, already
have passed some 'minutes. E 'right? At that juncture she rammostra the
girl who was beaten severely, even he believes is about to die?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - He did not say anything about how it was done the beating of this girl
or these other guys there?
ANSWER - We were not to comment at that time there was an emergency,
we had to make a living.
Q. - We had no excuse?
ANSWER - We were in a living room and we had no time to speak on this.
Q. - I understood but did not Canterini said "What happened" a comment
that is natural?
REPLY - But I found it here, I just found it here, I was not that I had to
specify the ... the ... not ... to Canterini I did not say that I had a fight, I
simply said that I had found these here, in these conditions.
Q. - So you told what to Canterini then told the prosecutors?
ANSWER - Here I have said earlier, it was something I had held for me at
that time.
Q. - But what reason had to keep? That is, with prosecutors understand?
ANSWER - I did not mean, did not mean to spread this thing, I think,
however, that ...
Q. - then this is what he then called someone?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - In recent years she has a secret jealously kept hidden?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - It 's the first time I have to say? A higher or subordinate any of his
colleague?
ANSWER - I have not had occasion to speak, I am a pretty reserved person
and serious and I carried a cross, if it allows for 6 years is not indifferent in
terms of careers and relationships of ... everything that has happened. Not
... was not free to hold it, but they are taking me.
Q. - So in the six years she has not even talked to Singers of all that had
happened?
ANSWER - No, I did not discuss, I have not spoken. I talked to my lawyer,
my lawyer only with the point is not ... I have heard this line reserved for
all the time.
Q. - So far, so it has not been mentioned? Okay.
ANSWER - Yes indeed I make this statement this morning.
Q. - You feel we are on the floor after the beatings, there is this girl that
she describes is not too tall with blond hair?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - How far is the girl when she takes it all? That is, the girl is in some
way?
ANSWER - It 's quite ... So I have not seen the girl.
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - When, during the commotion, the girl I saw her immediately
after. That is, I approached her, I said "I can get close" I said "Sure come
forward."
Q. - Oh, so he had focused in the run?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No, the girl asked her to tell the ambulance?
ANSWER - I said "Do not worry I have already done."
Q. - Please note if the case had to ask several times over the years? In the
sense that the ambulance did not arrive that?
ANSWER - No, no I ... yes, definitely yes I asked is because I was very
scared.
Q. - just can Uhm ... how much time has elapsed since this request
ambulance arrives?
ANSWER - I could not tell you, now I can not remember, say, a risk of
inaccuracy. But I must say that that's the only thing I remember is that I
was surprised that it came sooner than, sooner than I expected.
Q. - Ah came sooner than expected. Look, she's been some reaction or
some aggressive attitude towards him? While he was in the hallway?
ANSWER - Absolutely not.
Q. - On behalf of the guys no for sure?
ANSWER - No, no, absolutely not. In fact I have with the blond girl ... it also
said "I'm sorry that happened" and that I had to say, stood in the midst of
that eehhh say "Look I'm sorry."
Q. - And at some point get an inspector? I think it is the Inspector Tucci?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Who attends part of the story?
ANSWER - No, not seen anything.
Q. - No, no more words ...
ANSWER - I mean at the scene ...
Q. - the expectation here?
ANSWER - In what I have done that, that gesture offensive.
Q. - What is outrageous that simulated sexual intercourse?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And then anyone. Look in the presence of the Inspector Tucci she did
not suffer any kind of gesture, or aggressive?
ANSWER - Absolutely not.
Q. - No?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - It 'sure of this?
ANSWER - If the Inspector Tucci?
Q. - Yes, she had ruled that the attitudes of hostility or aggression by
people who were there, that is, boys?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So much less in the presence of ... even in the presence or otherwise?
ANSWER - No, no, nothing has happened at that point.
Q. - Okay, okay, because the Inspector Tucci says something different, to
say what will feel to the proceedings. Um ...
ANSWER - And what is it different?
Q. - It's about a launch of a bomb?
ANSWER - Well if you can read me?
Q. - "I remember a girl with a (inaudible) on his head that he got up and
pulled him to the same Fournier.
REPLY - this episode but I honestly do not remember and I would say to be
able to exclude.
Q. - Um okay. Here is where you are come to the school, this is the last
question: you had in mind, however, would face the fights?
ANSWER - Yes, definitely yes.
Q. - So your psychological attitude was "We go because there will still be
someone who resists and we will have to confront."
ANSWER - There was this presumably is what happens to us every Sunday
and every Saturday.
Q. - Um then to quote his statement made during an interrogation, a
defendant who had, because she speaks of input, which was about?
ANSWER - No, there had been no input. We were only told the type of
structure in which we had to come in and the type of guest. I in all
circumstances, always call for calm to men, to say "No suggestions, do not
try to ... to have a quiet and peaceful approach, "this was.
Q. - So there was no input from anyone?
ANSWER - No, there was, God forbid.
Q. - So just for clarification, is a challenge that I do, but just to get a
clarification on this point, the interrogation transcript of the interrogation
of October 7, 2002, on page 10 she says: "I must say the truth, only has
made a miracle that I have not given up some wood at first that it
happened. "
REPLY - Oh sure.
Q. - "Because the defendant" not now eh arrival of the offender: "Given
the input that we had before the operation."
ANSWER - No, you asked me which I turned over the accused to my men.
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - The input that I had ... oh no, no, then we specify. The input
that I have given to my men is a more immediate psychological evaluation
to avoid to the extent that they suffer from over-reacting or that are
loaded. The input I had was that I had ...
Q. - Here?
Responses - which I probably would have dealt with the characters of
which we have been taken with strokes of petrol bombs at the square
Tommaseo.
Q. - But this imput who gave it to him?
ANSWER: - Well I had given Canterini which in turn had received from
Donnini that those who know who had told him eh have patience, I give
the end of a story, is not that ...
Q. - Yes, but in fact I wanted to understand the spread of the news and
content. And then the defendant was "aware that probably ...."?
ANSWER - Yes, when I, when I go there on the school together with my
men, for what I was told, with the doubts that still takes me forever below.
Q. - Yes?
ANSWER - I never thought about going to face the official headquarters of
the Genoa Social Forum, I thought everything except that, from what I was
told.
Q. - I understand.
ANSWER - So much so that I learned, I learned days later that it was the
headquarters of the Genoa Social Forum.
Q. - But ... I understand.
ANSWER - Tell me, tell Lawyer.
Q. - A latest question of jumping pole bush, she said she was very shaken
by the whole action and then by the conditions of the girl. He verified
what were the exact conditions of the girl? And if so, when he did it?
ANSWER - I Look, I've been lucky a few days later I was in France to see
the German television ZDF and there was a service, a service on the
school, on the Diaz school where this girl was, I believe I also Dr said the
questioning with Pumpkin and saw her standing.
Q. - So it has occurred directly in the hospital, I knew then what?
ANSWER - No, no this ...
Q. - At what distance of time? Do you remember?
ANSWER - A few days ... ten days later.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Novaro - Okay, thanks.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Gianantonio

Q. - You said repeatedly today that it has at one point said to have
occurred when Dr. Singers "I work with these people no more" correct?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And he tells me politely if Dr. Canterini asked her for an explanation of
this expression? Why do I explain my point of view, if one could tell me a
thing, I would ask him "Excuse me, but because what has happened."
ANSWER - Well the results Dr Canterini he too had seen them, had
made ... had shared the hardships of very strong, very strong call it
uncomfortable in the light of what we saw, that is not ... not that he had
not seen the scenes of the first floor, which he had not seen the girl pours
into the pool of blood, a finding was a finding your local unanimous.
Q. - I'm sorry, I adequately explained to me in the sense that it could also
have been a strong, strong resistance as it was written then?
ANSWER - I do not ...
Q. - that she was expressing, asserting that trial introduced an explanation
of implicit and disturbing.
ANSWER - It 's scary because it is used to making public policy and moved
on, I mean the result of the Diaz school are not, are not ordinary
consequences of public policy, not ... not covered by the ... often results in
the usual bloody results in that order, there was something that went far
beyond.
Q. - Well more so? Did not he then asked Dr. Canterini?
REPLY - But if Dr. Canterini attended with me was a finding, as it were
spontaneously between two people who are seeing the same thing.
Q. - Excuse me, excuse me, Dr. Fournier, and also Dr. Canterini witnessed
the assault as she described it to those four or five colleagues?
ANSWER - Dr. Canterini has absolutely witnessed the beating, has
witnessed the consequences that were elonquentissime.
Q. - Oh, but then she saw the consequences, could not know because if he
was not told? E 'right?
ANSWER - Yes, I said eh that we found them there, as I have said before.
The explanation of Singers has learned, he learned later. He saw that
there was this and that there were these results. The secret meeting I had
with Lawyer Singers, was a minute to say "Madonna sucks" that's what we
said point then was to continue to work, was an exclamation, a survey ...
we had found something that was not completely gone. But we did not go
well.
Q. - So you did not add anything to that phrase in Canterini?
ANSWER - I have not added anything to that phrase because we had to
put in security, because we had to secure the structure, because I say we
were not there to do a debate, we were not a talk show but we were still in
an operation that started and ended worse than the police, had
immediately sprung ... school, we had to do the translations, so there was
no time to be there to make the assessments. The evaluations are done
then with the EC over the years and how if we made any.
Q. - Dr. Fournier has decided not to ask radio with throat microphone to his
squad leaders what was going on?
ANSWER - No, no I have sent them away out of school is different.
Q. - This we have heard.
ANSWER - I was not interested at that point ...
Q. - But to ask the other floors? Because she is left alone on the first floor?
ANSWER - I was not interested Lawyer, I was not interested at that time.
Q. - But was the Commander eh?
REPLY - Of course I'm the master of men, I wanted at that moment that
my men had come from that school. I wanted to come out because there
was something wrong, then I could not put to question, "What's going on"
"Come out" this was the defendant "and call the ambulance please" I did
not say much, there was time to say the least.
Q. - Another question: when she went up to the first floor?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - As told in those 30 seconds that seemed, the subjective time. Did you
see gentlemen, men of the police that they climbed the stairs with her?
ANSWER - Yes on the stairs probably yes, but I do not have a detailed
recollection of the fact also ...
Q. - Did you see Dr. Fournier is also the men of his department?
ANSWER - but probably along the stairs going up to the top, I also saw
men in my core, but surely working toward the other plans.
Q. - Dr. Fournier and his men had included a scarf?
ANSWER: - All men of the Mobile Unit are equipped with a scarf which is
wine-colored.
Q. - The men who met were misrepresented with scarves? I wore?
ANSWER - I do not remember, I do not remember if there was a
transference, a helmet c'avevano anyway.
Q. - And 'provided, however, the operation of public policy is therefore
likely that in principle should wear?
REPLY - But there is a specific obligation, indeed there is a trend to ban
use it to conceal his face. That is, we do not practice, practice, but I, I
personally do not.
Q. - But it is not ... the aim is not ... Dr. Fournier to intimidate, not to hide
his face?
ANSWER - Perhaps it would ... No. I wanted to make a joke, no absolutely
not, no, no, no, God forbid.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Gianantonio - Okay. No further questions thank
you.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Bigliazzi

Q. - One moment I'd go back out, but one question on the beginning of the
operation. I do not know if that was because I missed the beginning of the
prosecutor's questions. There must be, if you remember there must be
some conventional signal?
ANSWER - Yes.
CLAIM - The statement was a conventional signal?
ANSWER - Yes, communication, communication in the first there was talk
of infiltration that would have given the green light for the operation, this
is what I was told.
Q. - So here she was told, then that would give an infiltrator?
REPLY - That was, who was present at this, in this structure was occupied
illegally this together with the other insurrectionary anarchists, Black Bloc
call them as we want and that would give us the green light to do the
surgery. This was the first news of which I warned as I usually do.
Q. - This is then known, then heard nothing if this thing?
ANSWER - Absolutely not, because well, in short, the official headquarters
of the Genoa Social Forum do not see how he could.
Q. - Here are the results that this news was unfounded at this point?
ANSWER: - Well I would say that with ... At this point the story was
unfounded, not ... unfounded.
Q. - Another ... remember who had told her this news?
ANSWER - The news of the Commander who in turn had learned from the
senior executive who was there, I presume Donnini, we stopped by the
group leaders, we intercepted the restaurant at the fair.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Bigliazzi - Very good. Thanks.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tartarini

Q. - The first concerns the last thing I told my colleague Bigliazzi, but
simply to say if it then came to the school while you were still, came
through a throat microphone activation order and enter the school or in
any case brought before the school . Do not you remember?
ANSWER - I do not remember. It might, it might be, but it was, would have
been a didactic order, because in fact the indication was that way, that is,
let's call it the objective of arriving at the school.
Q. - Then only two lines in relation to foreigners, who says: "We heard on
the radio that the manager Digos the other block was swung into action,
without seeing the action of the intervention, Dr. Canterini simultaneously
communicated to Dr. Fournier, through the his radio to intervene. "
REPLY - But to get there?
Q. - Yes, yes, yes.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, this probably do not remember, but we were just
gone.
Q. - Very well.
REPLY - But we were just away from school.
Q. - Yet another short. Her after the surgery, when you go away? He met
with his men?
ANSWER - No, at the end.
Q. - Yes, but not the end, the end?
ANSWER - In the end, we finally found all of them together or to the bulk
Caravelle, where he came from Dr. Murgolo to bring the thanks and
compliments for the operation on behalf of Dr. Andrea.
Q. - Well, then spent some 'time with them afterwards?
ANSWER - We then went to sleep.
Questions - you sleep, you say no.
ANSWER - because we had to start running for the next day because there
was Bush in Rome.
Q. - Very well, and she knows if his men were required medical
certificates?
ANSWER - Never ... if I can rephrase the question ... that is, if someone is
hurt our? Yes I know that someone has been hurt.
Q. - Here and if you remember?
ANSWER - No, no I do not remember who.
Q. - No, no it does not matter who, if you remember but if and when these
medical certificates have been made, those lesions that show?
ANSWER - No, not him say.
QUESTION - If you have applied? By other officials?
ANSWER - No, no I do not remember ... I know that someone got hurt,
nothing ... even my driver also was hurt, but was hurt outside the school,
then something totally unrelated to each other, he banged his leg against
a machine. Not ... I do not know, honestly the appearance of the reports
do not remember.
Q. - And the driver knows his medical reports has been done?
ANSWER - Please?
Q. - His driver was made medical reports?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, but ... not facts.
Q. - What is your name?
ANSWER - Galuppi.
Q. - Very well done and report in that situation? That is, during the night?
The next morning?
ANSWER - No, no, absolutely not. (Inaudible) you were hurt outside.
Q. - So you do not know if others have been made during the night or
morning dress?
ANSWER - No, no (unintelligible) yeah, yeah.
Q. - It's okay to make faster (inaudible) directly to the Court, reading four
lines of his interrogation in 2001 page 56, I would ask if you can confirm
and possibly add something, she says, the prosecutor asked Dr.
Petruziello, asks if the (inaudible) La Barbera could affect or may have
affected the orders, and she replies: "I sincerely presence of the head of
counterterrorism, the Police and the Prevention of activity was more then
relegated to the protection and prevention activities such 41 Bis rather
what is the Judicial Police and I think that was irrelevant, that the figure of
the observer, the police adviser has not yet been established. "
ANSWER - Well in short I mean, now I'm sorry, but I think it was an
important position.
Q. - No, I believe I asked her to confirm this or any subject better.
ANSWER - No, no ... not ... I find it difficult, for reasons I have difficulty
being the Prefect of La Barbera unfortunately deceased, so ... not ... I am
in difficulty.
Q. - No, no ... but nobody
ANSWER: - Apart from La Barbera, the figure of the prefect in this context
is certainly ...
Q. - This is just the prefect or other officials who were ...
ANSWER - Well there were no other officials.
Q. - So we take away even the embarrassment of talking about a
deceased person who is ill.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes honestly. Also because it's a character who gave
the police. There was Gratteri again, now a senior executive of Police of
Bari, but honestly for what it regards Gratteri, for what concerns Murgolo,
Luperi in the chain of command, in ... in functions that were exercising,
the functions that were exercising at that moment, I would not be able
to ... can make a clarification. There were not here, if I may, I could not go
there to ask "Excuse me, but then I owe to those who obey" well maybe in
hindsight it probably would be well if you do that.
Q. - No, no, of course. And look at this I would ask one more confirmation
of always questioning the same page 44. She refers precisely to the fact,
as she is telling us that the operator of public policy was more
substantially. And then she says "Assuming then you should do this, there
were a thousand ways to do this and not that. Not with the number of
parties with very high degrees then. It 'was very easy to say ...

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Look I'm sorry, we have allowed

the questions, but what is the challenge.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tartarini - It is a challenge, as I did before just to
confirm if I avoid the question she remembers him if the degrees?
ANSWER - Look look.
Q. - It is a challenge was simple.
RESPONSE - Attorney at this point I would prefer not to make other
statements about how that would be only technical.
Q. - It is not just a mode. E 'on the presence of ... influence of senior
people in that situation. She also refers to there is also the Digos Doctor
Mortola and his collaborator, he had more striking nearby?
REPLY - Oh Yes it was.
Q. - So in other words. Confirming this chain of command that has
esplecata?
ANSWER - I do not feel I can say that Dr. Mortola there could act on his
own initiative, in short as well as misconduct is a gullibility eh I mean.
Q. - Here we can say who was short, which was the direct superior of Dr.
Mortola in that forum?
REPLY - Oh, no I have not the faintest idea.
Q. - (inaudible)
ANSWER - The Quaestor and headquarters to the Ministry, the Central
Director of the Prevention Police, but ehhh I mean in that case, the figure
of Mortola certainly was relieved in short, seems obvious.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Tartarini - Okay, thanks.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Salvemini

Q. - Just two questions, first of all you responding to a question of a

plaintiff said she did not report at that time to Dr. Canterini have
witnessed a beating by some police officers. I guess this confirms it?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
QUESTION - The question is this: why not tell your Doctor Singers as one
of the authors of that assault, four or five people she said that two were in
the uniform of the First Division.
ANSWER - No, no no I'm not saying ...
Q. - What could be of interest to (inaudible)?
ANSWER - ... it was a split of the First Division. I say it was a split of the
Mobile Unit. The Departments furniture in Italy are more than 13.
Q. - Oh, I understand, I understood that was the uniform of the First
Division?
ANSWER - No, no, no.
Q. - I thought you had seen the things, so it is a department of a
department, then she did not report this fact at that time to Dr. Singers,
held his weight, we told him, but some days later when makes a report
dated July 26, then went about a week, even less, she still does not
mention this fact only, but expressly declares that it is and the report to
Dr. Canterini and then it could still be of interest. He reports that he was
only at that moment there was the group. So can you explain why even at
that time did not provide an item that could be defensive for the "seventh
core"?
REPLY - But I think I have already answered at that time there was a
speech of "Seventh Unit", was a more comprehensive discussion of the
Police.
Q. - Oh, sorry she is part of the Seventh core "commands it true?
ANSWER - No, no more, no longer exists.
Q. - at that time?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Oh, so is making a report to the Commander of the First Mobile Unit in
Rome?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So the report have requested it to him as Commander of the "Seventh
core"?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And she says a thing that tells us today that is totally inaccurate?
ANSWER - It is not entirely inaccurate, is incomplete, it seems to have
given fairly accurate explanation of the reasons why I did not want to talk
about this. I think not ... I have no words to describe I've been able to, I
kept this aspect, which also could not add anything except bring more
mud to the administration, at least in that context that it was under siege,
I preferred to hold it for me to point . This was the speech, this was the
speech.
Q. - In fact you say something that is not accurate, that it was incomplete,
she says pointedly, "At that moment I was alone," and then also there but
she has already provided the answer, his defense was that of Police, who
then is a little bit also my problem. The following year a October 7
interrogation before making prosecutors still do not report this fact.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - President's opposition to this

application. When the hearing is being investigated can say what he
wants, can also be said that there was and if there was asleep.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Salvemini - I do not think there is a reason for this
opposition.
PRESIDENT - And then?
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - So there is opposition.
PRESIDENT - If anything, we are on this one exception. If you want to
responding.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - If you want to repeat for the
umpteenth time if not?
ANSWER - I begin to be a bit 'tired, however if I can rephrase the question
why.
Q. - I wanted to ask why on October 7, 2002, then passed over a year?
ANSWER - Yes, because I kept on hold for that ... considered the particular
time, I continued to hold the point.
Q. - what was the particular moment? Because at that time was under
indictment as the "Seventh"?
ANSWER - Yes, the injury that was brought to my administration, where I
live, in which work, this is the point.
Q. - This is the point. You move on, and she refers to Dr. Canterini the
other party has confirmed here that we saw in the yard when she said,
"With these no longer work?
ANSWER - Yes, I confirm.
Q. - Yes, yes, no, but in fact this is not the question. Those who are they?
Those with whom ... at that moment she is the Commander of the
"Seventh core"?
ANSWER - Well, you see I'll be right were not my men, was the rest of
those ... that these were the remainder, ie those who had that kind of
violence.
Q. - I'm sorry but she worked with them they had done that kind of
violence?
ANSWER - Well done to everyone we were there.
Q. - Yes, but when she refers to the Commander of the First Department of
Rome, I command that the "Seventh Unit", "With these no longer work"
makes it clear that I ask is: Who are these? Since she only works with
those of the "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - No, I work with look at the police station in Rome, Naples,
Bologna, Turin, Genoa, everywhere I go, I work with the Digos, with
Criminalpool when we go to support, then work with everyone. The
sentence is a sentence eh carved in marble, I saw this and I say this,
those with which we had to work tonight and I have made slaughter. It is
these that my sentence, he went at this special someone, this is the
meaning of these understood as people who do not have to do this job,
but was not addressed to an entity, an institution in an office to a specific
organ, who realized, who has become guilty of these things. It 'was a
sentence dictated by ... from discomfort, nausea, fatigue of 48 hours of
continuous accidents, violence, blood, cursing people behind you,
journalists chasing you, that I mean ... eh is that you can not separate the
human aspect of a process than on that of the judicial police officers, I is
not that I was a split at that time. So.
Q. - I take note of his answer was just confused about whether she worked
with who specifically?
ANSWER - I basically worked with the "Seventh Unit." But the "Seventh
Unit" is an inert entity as long as the nuclei of all departments, until it is
made available to someone else, according to the Consolidated Laws of
Public Safety that identifies the police officer, the Force Commander h is
the force working with everyone. In that case he had worked, worked,
worked, supported in a situation that unfortunately led me to tired to say
"These do not work more" because I am over 10 years of public policy I've
never ever be able to see a thing general point, I wanted to say this, but
did not want to give directions, a phrase no such accusation was intended
to identify someone, it was a relief.
CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Salvemini - I understand your response and I
have more questions, thank you.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli

Q. - to set off from the question asked Avvocatura state. When she said
"This is not working there anymore," certainly was not referring to her?
ANSWER - Absolutely not, because I've got continued to work, I should
commit suicide, do not ...
Q. - So who is next in the previous period, with his men of the "Seventh
Unit" has there ever been such things?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not, I am over 10 years of public policy, is the
only type of injury so let's call it, in which they are incurred, and yet I was
involved in many accidents, not those that occurred last Saturday, on
Saturday in Rome, Corso Vittorio and we democratically content
protesters.
Q. - And now resume the protest that the defendant had Dr. Cardona.
Remind the Court that in some ways the latest questions and objections of
the prosecutor, is that of a witness who would certainly Stefen Zigler
reported that the agent has put in place of obscene gestures, was an
agent who had already struck the first ones people and was dressed in
that uniform. I now, I have not stopped previously criticized by the
President not to feel now I read what I said Stefen Zigler and see if the
Court is the same dispute. He says: "Estimates of the number of police
who beat us 20 to 25, after the strike ended, because of the shouted"
Enough, enough, "the policeman of the above" and then describes a
person "from the second ramp scale "then after" E 'come down a group of
police officers from 20 to 25 people, but I'm not sure who wore the same
uniform as those who had beaten before. One of them stopped in front of
the person I was sitting on the front with, and being directed to this
person in half, he made movements with the pelvis as a sexual act "and
then were not dressed that way and those who were not have
(incomprensibile.
Prosecutor Dr. Cardona - President wonder what is the question?
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli - I would also like to know. No I'm
correcting what is his objection that is not correct.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - (inaudible) of the indictment, pleading not
to know this.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Then Dr. Cardona or she wants to
be interrupted when it hurts or I'm disputes shut up and read it later.
PRESIDENT - Excuse me.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - But if we act before you get angry
and you get excited, I'm reading next. What she objected to is different
from what she says and adds, "The policeman who first called him that
before and had just called, he read with a hand gesture ...
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - But it is not a ground that is doing
defender.
PRESIDENT - This will tell him to do when its findings here then.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - So President.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I am hearing instruments acquired.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - I understand I have become older
I have slow reflexes. I have to understand when the President made an
issue not correct, when I have to intervene. If I have to act now the
prosecutor is angry, if I have to act immediately after I read.
PRESIDENT - If the dispute should not be correct in that you read
something different can intervene immediately.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - No, no president has stopped her
saying a thousand times when it's up to you then read it.
PRESIDENT - Certainly.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - It's up to me I read it. Also
because when we discuss then know you remember the moment of the
thing.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - He also cited a witness other than the one I
quoted President.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - No she said it was one of those
who hit the first of those who made the first gesture, but it is not, we want
to see the recording.
PRESIDENT - We must see who was the witness who stated before, I think
it was called (inaudible)
DEFENSE. Romanelli - The same, there is only one President.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I have indicated Albrecht, Zigler ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - There is only one
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No there are many.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - Yes there are many who speak of
the gesture, but it shows that way down there is just saying that.
PRESIDENT - But this claim simply that you do have a question to his
client in which he says exactly what he saw, who was so, then you can
read all you want but why not be a challenge.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - I make a single application that
can answer what he wants, but is not a response to a request made
incorrectly excuse me eh. However, but we got used because prosecutors
have said they can ask questions and suggestive also pitfalls, and then we
got used to this feeling. Look, I would rather that she ricostruisse a
moment when she came in and the time it climbed up the ladder to the
left, because I am still convinced that after having responded to questions
from prosecutors this point has not clarified. Then she said "I entered the
gate, before the seventh or eighth," then corrected himself saying,
"Maybe a little 'behind' how long has she opened a door from the door, to
benefit the school and actually be free to take the stairs?
ANSWER - 1 ½ minutes, 2 minutes, you can also see images of what it is,
because it blows.
Q. - Why they entered one at a time?
ANSWER - No, you are entered one at a time and there was a push
unreasonable and that there was a huge pressure.
Q. - Then she takes 1 minute and a half, 2 to get in front of the stairs and
then takes 30 seconds to climb the ladder?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - So we say that when you open the door and she enters spend about 2
½ minutes?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Look and you remember if at the time of the division of your
department in two columns, there was a dispute by the Doctor Singers?
Against those who divided the department?
ANSWER - No, I do not remember it.
Q. - Do not you remember. She remembers to averglielo reported to have
witnessed how to gain access to this building, Dr. Canterini proposed to
launch a small amount of tear gas and was sharply rejected the proposal?
REPLY - But this I learned after honestly, but we talked on several
occasions. That the introduction of further negotiation is not gone, not
successful, the introduction of these small offices that are not as
projected, they could lead to ...
Q. - So here I make a request, she first said "Usually we work first with the
megaphone talking, trying to do ..."
ANSWER - Yes, yes, a real negotiation.
Q. - A deal, after this deal you happen to run a minimum charge of tear
gas to prevent physical contact?
ANSWER - No, now is a long time, then you are very limited the use of tear
gas because there is a controversy likely to harm any of the "CS" which in
reality, the "CS" is the active ingredient of which in Actually we are
inhaled and then is a major problem for all police officers not to those
who, of those who inhale from time to time, because it is volatile and we
completed in our time, in our cars and then we are the main breathing.
No, lately he is very small, very small, because it has reduced the danger
of the projectile that is used for launch, but there's this, this theme on
"CS" as aggressive chemicals, and ultimately it makes little use.
Q. - But if it had been used in that circumstance?
REPLY - But I think it would be, that is a result ... surely there was a
possibility of organizing an exodus not bloody.
REQUEST - Less bloody.
ANSWER - There is no exit, period.
Q. - Look something that needs to be clarified, because here everyone is
asking, "But you've talked, you said, you applied to your men and so on"
beyond the fact of that time were quite dramatic with orders and
commitments that you had to execute in those situations. And 'normal
officers and under officers and staff there are the simple exchange of
conversation?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - As if it were a living?
ANSWER - not much, but especially in their time operating in their time of
operation is not talked about his own.
Q. - And you remember that this was also the Inspector Basil?
ANSWER - Yes, he was, was free hitter, because he is an instructor.
Q. - That explains what was it? A team leader?
ANSWER - No, it was a team leader, was one of the trainers, he had not
had as location, as team leader, but participated as a coordinator.
Q. - So participated but did not have a team?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you remember when Basil was drawn?
REPLY - He says to me, as I have, I said he had been hit on ... with some
blunt object to ...
Q. - At the helmet?
ANSWER - The jacket ... the helmet.
Q. - Do you remember that this helmet was also found in it a sign of
remarkable?
ANSWER - Yes, I think so, I think so.
Q. - As has been requested several times, she can explain to the Court as
usually made when you enter a building occupied in this way?
ANSWER - Yes, provided that use is a relic of the department, because we
sincerely we used to work in a wide field, that is, then squares, roads,
allowing the escape routes, in fact our role is not to make arrests is that
right in order, you can allow, it may reject the crowd and get him away.
Nevertheless it can happen, as unfortunately happened, that is used in,
the occupation of ... in the liberation - of occupation prisons, most recently
a little less, and above all this is done in the eviction of illegally occupied
houses. Usually the main theme and the objective was to reach the top
floors to clean and then drop down just to avoid making throws on the
police who may proceed in the meantime, removals, travel.
Q. - Here in this work you are doing, as is the behavior of participants in
its core? What is? What should I do?
ANSWER - Should they get here, take the stairwell, often with multiple
blocks of stairwells, the team leader comes, it comes on the top floor and
do the remediation, that carry out the inspections because there is no one
who starts something below. Provides security.
Q. - That's after he met someone who resists or think, or who erroneously
believe that they can also do resistance?
ANSWER - so why not arrange, in a fair and proportionate, that is, I mean
it is locked in principle.
Q. - It is a foul?
ANSWER - It depends, depends on the type of reaction, the type that
produces the resistant reaction, I mean.
Q. - So you can exclude someone in his department and passing from the
first floor may have had some physical contact, or would have landed any
of those she found then, the dozen that she found on the floor?
REPLY - But I can not absolutely exclude absolutely do.
Q. - However, once made certain operations and stop the behavior, you
continue to take the building to secure, not that you pause when you did it
to fear?
ANSWER - No, in fact the purpose is to reach the top floors, because any
transactions still paid by the occupants who resist usually makes them the
Commissioner who oversees the local operations, a fact that is not ours.
Q. - Well, first you hear talked about the Tonfa?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Saying that it is a dangerous tool. I seem to recall that you said during
the interrogations provided to prosecutors that she compares it to almost
anything of a gun?
ANSWER: - Well I would say yes, say yes.
Q. - This is meant to explain to the Court, looking at the court?
ANSWER - I beg your pardon, well the Tonfa is a tool, is a club that was
mostly used by American police is dangerous in the sense that the blows
that are usually commonly given during public order with the traditional
rubber truncheons if were, like football fans, events and data if they were
in the same way we would with the Tonfa the dead every Sunday, every
Saturday there is an event that hit the head with the Tonfa say leaves little
chance of survival.
Q. - Look at this story there are about 43 people were wounded in the
head? It may be that have been hit with the Tonfa?
ANSWER - If there is someone who shows severe fractures may have been
a thud.
Q. - If you do not have cracks?
ANSWER - If you have cuts or other it seems absolutely incredible.
Unfortunately I must handle it, have it your perception of the material to
understand, to understand what it is.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - I finished with.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Rinaldo Romanelli

Q. - Dr. Fourner only an addition, let's say a retail addition. She said that
on the first floor when he came to an end after the violence, has helped
this girl, who had already taken off his helmet and was left there without a
helmet? It has a meaning of public policy, the official, the police officer
who retires say the (inaudible)
ANSWER - The first thing to do ... for, not to have a hostile attitude is to
take off your helmet, there's always the time of the controversy made the
police officer who wants to give a peaceful image, remove your helmet
and do not worry then maybe something comes to us in head, but it is a
precise signal and the public that was in there I think that the language
departments still a total riot to understand him.
Q. - But let's say she did not think about getting a helmet because he did
not think there was danger, but also to have an attitude like this?
ANSWER - A part, to reassure them I mean, they would also need
treatment at that time (inaudible)
Q. - A clarification, because the applications were made on the report and
also on the report of Commander Singers? She was aware that the
Commander Singers made a report?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - On July 21?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not.
Q. - It has not been informed? When it came to knowledge?
ANSWER - A long time later.
Q. - So you did not know that a report had been made?
ANSWER - No, absolutely I think I learned a process begun.
Q. - I ask because as he was asked if she was consulted by the
Commander to make a report at the District? I was wondering how
exactly?
ANSWER - No, no absolutely not.
Q. - I understand, and Dr. Troiani, we are the subject of Dr. Troiani. She's
never seen? I'll tell you if the Court so we save time. Dr. Al Canterini was
shown a picture in which Dr. Troiani is close to a half and you have a black
belt and a helmet of the "Seventh Unit." Here he explains to me a
moment?
ANSWER - Why?
Q. - Why?
ANSWER - Many, many if not most officials in that circumstance, at that
time were fitted with the helmet of the "Seventh Unit" and also his belt,
but not Dr. Troiani only so many, in fact very often seeing the pictures, I
am mistaken .. . repertoire of genres "Ah see what is the" seventh "and
instead is not the official.
Q. - And 'an official. So most officials Mobile Unit in Genoa had the black
belt.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, even the helmets even some police officer I know, but
now ...
Q. - that she is a particular compounded, Dr. Troiani to say that the
function held, was the one that had the availability of this material?
Because she had said before the logistical functions in respect of ...
REPLY - But the close availability not, however, stood in the logistics, the
logistics area which was also fitted with a Vega, which distributed the
materials warehouse.
Q. - Where were these materials?
ANSWER - Yes he was treated especially housing, leisure activities and
company, this stuff here I seem to remember.
Q. - I understand and ask a favor to the employee's attorney if I can see a
moment exactly the pictures that have already been shown to Mr.
Fournier's exit ... the "Seventh Division" to find 234 of the "Seventh Unit."
No, no, see what has been done before ... no item in which you can see
out say Dr. Trojans among those of the "Seventh Unit" because we also
see Dr. Fournier and would like to see a moment that he was doing his
uniform as he explained that it was not what was shown before.
ANSWER - It is not that the picture had shown a Lawyer.
Q. - That's right but since I seem to remember that there you see and you
see his uniform, so maybe we confirm if she is, where he had the grades
or had none. And 'this, make the case if we recognize that tells us to stop.
ANSWER - Here.
Q. - Well, if you can send a little back, we can see the uniform and you can
see that even the grades that are on the shoulder.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - As said before, Dr. Fournier.
ANSWER - Yes, that this is the uniform that so far, we still in use.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - It can stop here?
Q. - Here it is she who has the beret?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - It has already been recognized before?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And this is the summer uniform of public policy that we have
described above?
ANSWER - What I wear I do, yes.
Q. - And that did not so ...
Answer - and that in reality even in winter, but ...
Q. - And 'one for all seasons?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - What then does not have the grades but grades on the front strap?
ANSWER - That's right, attached on the shoulder and here's the badge in
my case to be a paratrooper and police crest on the other side.
Q. - That's my excuse and Dr. Troiani and his men, which is accompanied
with men that she has already told us that he did not know who they were
or why they were there. He was with the means of the "Seventh core"?
That is, it is removed from the transactions with you?
ANSWER - No, no, no, absolutely not.
Q. - did not come with you on the ground and walked away with you? Here
I would like to see an instant relic Res 234 up 4, to 37 minutes to see if
you recognize if you recognize her, though it recognizes Dr. Troiani and
describes a moment. If we stop a moment, eh, I wanted the attention of
Dr. Fournier, go right ahead because, you see there. Those who are in the
meantime?
ANSWER - There are a few of the "seventh" and others do not. The
majority here is the "Seventh Unit."
Q. - Yes
ANSWER - Here I am this one.
Q. - It is recognized?
ANSWER - (inaudible)
Q. - Here is where we stop for a moment. I think you see even from this
distance where the grades?
ANSWER - Yes, shoulders.
Q. - On the shoulders, that's if we go a little 'ahead. If we recognize Dr.
Troiani says?
ANSWER: - Well I think, here it is Dr. Troiani.
Q. - Here.
ANSWER - I think it's him.
Q. - If we go on and on at normal speed.
REPLY - Oh yes, because here was a bit 'grainy from here.
Q. - Go well.
ANSWER - Yes, I think he is right.
Q. - Here is receding say in the other direction?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes.
Q. - With two are dressed like that?
ANSWER - With the uniform ordinary Mobile Unit, with a white belt.
Q. - What are therefore the "Seventh Unit" I understand.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Rinaldo Romanelli - With no further questions.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani

Q. - I will be brief. Hear a question about laringofoni? On the speakers you

had, I do not know how we can call them, that's if I understand it, officers
and crew chiefs could also give instructions to the troops or not, and vice
versa?
REPLY - But let's say it was technically a sweater closed, were allowed,
they were all obliged to be listening and talking could be only the officers
and team leaders, clearly there was a grain of salt if the need and urgency
anyone could intervene, this using this technique the mesh is closed in
order to avoid that anybody can play with the radio, talking all the time.
Q. - So let's say a team leader that he meant not only to their own, but
also to other members of the department there to stop any kind of
business it could easily do?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Via intercom?
ANSWER - Sure.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - Thank you.

Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona

Q. - So you first have referred at the request of his counsel to the

quantification of a time that would take her to overcome obstacles if I did
not understand or shoving, elbowing.
ANSWER - (inaudible)
Q. - And he made reference to a time estimated at 1 minute and a half.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - 2:30.
Q. - 2:30 even better.
ANSWER - 1 ½ minutes, 2 minutes.
Q. - Okay, I well understand what it meant, because if you look at movies,
and do not propose again to avoid stretching too much, Tan Cod camera
shows a time that is busted, but in its relativity, we may be of interest for
this purpose , and starts from 22 and 14 and 55, as the start of operation,
ie when the mass flows into the courtyard and ends with the last members
of the department, First Department, "Seventh Unit" and some chest at
22:17 and 9 zero, so in total, about 2 minutes and some seconds, 14
seconds.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - Excuse me President, I did not

understand a thing if the prosecutor spoke of the First Division.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Yes, I said Mobile Unit, First Mobile Unit in
short.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - No one is First Department, Mobile Unit
is a general thing.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Yes, it is a fine detail, I wanted to report to
all members of the public policy, not belonging to the "Seventh Unit."
Then all players end up joining after about 2 minutes and 10 seconds.
Now she at the beginning, when I examined myself and I made a
challenge, it seemed that he had taken for granted that they are already
inside when you see a turtle shields, the shields are placed in the record
for about 1 minute and 30 beginning of the whole operation and about 30
seconds after the main entrance. When I give these references to time, is
able to better specify 2 minutes and a half?
ANSWER - No, I said 1 minute and 30, 2 minutes. I did not say 2 minutes
and a half, but ...
Q. - You confirm that he was already inside when the door was the
tortoise?
ANSWER - I could probably be right on the door and I could not see from
behind. Why not see what went on behind with his helmet.
Q. - Hm, so if the door was missing a few seconds to get in?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - So let's say he was inside at this point. The confirmation of this?
REPLY - But I can confirm. Unfortunately I want to clarify that the
perception of time, honestly ...
Q. - The perception is relative, but we are fortunate to have the
documentary evidence that the ce ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes.
Q. - that allow us to compare it with an objective time. Another ... this is
important and you will understand, to see how long she has arrived on the
first floor. Another question that I wanted to do is this: I seemed to
understand at the request of his lawyer, a member of the "Seventh Unit"
would be ... have reported being struck on the helmet and this helmet she
said was found in it?
ANSWER - No, the defender said.
Q. - Perhaps it's his lawyer who said it?
ANSWER - I ...
Q. - But that was seized a helmet?
ANSWER - No, well I do not remember, do not ... do not ask me.
Q. - No, because the file is not, I wanted to ask if the results?
ANSWER - No, no, I do not remember watching, it's a detail that can not
remember, I only know that they are still seized the Tonfa, I hope to be
sequestered for the next thousand years, but that ...
Q. - The Tonfa are still attached.
Answer - and are comfortable where they are.
Q. - We also asked them to tell the truth, however, the helmet is not
arrested?
ANSWER - No, I'm not aware of.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - It was I who asked him whether he
knew it or not and then.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No, no, since I have heard of repertoire
then ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - (inaudible)
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - The repertoire for me was the seizure, since
there is no helmet confiscated.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - No, I meant to say with the
repertoire at the helm, the nucleus, at their office, still not sure why I even
Basili says, "I think it was put somewhere," says so, then wondered if he
was ...

Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I have put in place somewhere? Do not you

know her?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - No. We're in field reports - wounded, she first talked about Galluppi if I
remember correctly, the findings also ... I wanted to understand first of all,
you know, participating in a business of taking reports of first aid?
ANSWER - No, no no in the days after, because there we have, we have
had several incidents during, but immediately after I have not followed the
history of medical reports here.
Questions - may be seen that there were also medical reports during the
previous days?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, but in fact were not present.
Q. - There were no what?
ANSWER - They were not present at the Diaz reported.
Q. - And I wanted to ask instead of belonging to the "Seventh Unit" that
this is yet to Diaz and reported the day before? Mr., the agent I think it's
doors Gianluca agent, has a report of 20 July 2001 and zero 4 hours 23
blunt trauma to his right ankle, the prognosis of five days. The doors
should also be party to ... dispatch, the Diaz operation and there is a
report of Ante products among those injured, even there right ankle, right
foot.
ANSWER - This is an issue that truly unknown, I can not say.
Q. - So you do not know anything about this? Ante saw him? Do you
remember?
ANSWER - (silence)
Q. - Look another explanation, then I produrrei the Court this report, you
add to that. Another explanation, she always first at the urging of his
lawyer, said it could not be excluded that other members of the "Seventh
Core" may have been responsible for her actions and I asked him first on
training that you have followed, as a preparation has generically referred
to a physical training and psychological, perhaps?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And what is the psychological training? That is what is required to
members of the "Seventh core"?
ANSWER - No, ... a ... capacity, then: what is required I can tell you the
type of training that we impart, there is a specific request, a large estate.
There is a great ...
APPLICATION - To be in the "Seventh Core" What should I have?
ANSWER - First of all you have to have ... aside from no longer exists so
there is no problem.
Q. - What have you had?
ANSWER - What you had to have: first, there was a selection aptitude that
has been made to CastroPretorio in Rome, organized by the Psycho-
Technical Center of the State Police. So first of all this and then there was
a specific training techniques and physical techniques of self defense and
sporting activities and also to the estate, the estate, the estate are
techniques of stress management, simulations of accidents we have had
our Contecaverie center, simulations and clearly do not ... that is, sealing,
sealing ...
Q. - So if I were to say the words that you have said in the report of 2001
is what she is expressing is, "We are in action more than anything else
cold?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - This cool is that?
ANSWER - There is a coolness factor that is what we should always be in
the public emotion, the emotion in public order is the worst, is the worst of
the blends that you can mix the violence that may already c 'is, but I want
to say, ehhh we are still in the sphere of human captain, it may happen
that this coldness is not maintained. Most accidents, though there were
operators and probably not frigid human work better, but because men
are made of the riot control units, there may be difficulties. It is then up to
officials, include training.
Q. - Look, but she told of a situation that would preclude the first floor that
you are that Police personnel have been confronted by someone but was
instead he has been guilty of serious acts prejudicial against the
occupants of the school . But if this happened and ... I mean, what? What
could have happened? How do you explain a situation of this kind, which
otherwise is repeated on the upper floors of the building, there are many
wounded?
ANSWER - I mean what is the mechanism.
Q. - To her that his men have shown the need to address the occupants?
ANSWER - Well, in some cases, objectively I have been very critical of
many police officers, however, give the license of holiness to all who were
in there, it seems to me an error of assessment as stupid on my part, that
is definitely there inside there were people who produced a certain kind of
resistance, because in my house if the police come I see us still barricaded
inside, that I keep open all the doors, say "What do you want" and instead
there were barricades the doors . Eh ...
Q. - But you did not realize that before closing the doors, barricading the
doors, maybe there was someone on the street? She's never seen?
ANSWER - but this I have not seen it, I have not seen this.
Q. - Okay, this has not seen, but maybe someone else saw him?
ANSWER: - Well I have not seen this.
Q. - Well said?
Answer - and then assume that there has been some reaction, I do not
think I do not think, do not believe a Manichean vision of cops just bad
and only good and peaceful demonstrators. Surely there will be someone
who is accustomed to deal, then surely there will have been a few
episodes.
Q. - This, then this is your assessment?
ANSWER - It 'I, my assessment, an assumption.
Q. - And 'his assumption. Must a moment drop these assumptions in its
concrete about what she saw and experienced last night at 21
ANSWER - (inaudible)
Q. - Oh yes of course 21 July 2001. I wanted to come back for a moment
on a situation which we have already addressed, but on which perhaps we
were a little 'very hasty, that she speaks of an episode in which he noticed
in the gym? On the ground floor and report?
ANSWER - then when I got out.
Q. - When it comes down, she took cognizance of the report that the
situation, that something had happened there, too?
REPLY - Oh, yes.
Q. - So what happened was something there too? As she relates in 2001 in
the minutes of the things I wanted to see if she remembers what he saw,
who gave her the feeling that something had happened there and what
had happened.
REPLY - But I remember an elderly person who had been ... and the thing
that struck me there was an older person probably did not look like a bum,
I did not understand who complained and he was carrying, and which bore
signs of beatings consistent, I remember this and then basically a big
mess, great chaos that, now what ...
Q. - But he said something different, because then the page now, but in
the minutes of 2001 she says: "the descent into the arms of this great,
here I realized the great slaughter that had been done on the ground and
good company and and then there were ... "in short describes a situation
he says he did not see the blood in the gym, but it describes a situation
that suggests a violent situation at the gym there too, if she remembers
this?
REPLY - But is chaos, disorder, eh then I remember, the thing that
impressed me is was this older man who had been beaten, I remember
this. Certainly there were traces of a raid because objects were thrown to
the ground, pieces, but now remember what I said at the interview, it was
clear that there was a (inaudible)
Q. - when you talk to this elderly person, speaks of a person believed to
have been taken in the dark. What does it mean?
ANSWER - Well because nobody honestly, could be as bad cop, he could
beat, beat up a person like that I mean, I mean blind.
Q. - I think I had ...
ANSWER - (inaudible) the ability to cop the worst hit, to beat ...
Q. - I understood something different, that is blindly meant that he could
not put any resistance there and then that person had been struck blind.
ANSWER - Not even the worst of the Nazis would not have beaten, would
not have beaten the sorry ...
Q. - But someone has broken a leg.
ANSWER - I see, but it's not that he can ask me. Now if I (inaudible)
Q. - No, but since she does evaluations and she is also faced with facts
that contradict these evaluations or because she says it was a protester to
break the leg to the ...
ANSWER -. Yes, but I is not that I can have the patricinio evaluation.
PRESIDENT - The assessments were requested by the prosecutor?
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Yeah yeah no no but ...
PRESIDENT - is not that ... the ...
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - AND I was teased because I talked about ...
PRESIDENT - The evaluations were requested.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - officials who would never have done certain
things, then ...
ANSWER - No, no civil servant, I talked about agents and there is a big
difference.
Q. - or agents, that's fine is the same. And another study, perhaps the
last. She first made reference to the intervention of a good officer, I have
pinned me this expression, when he reported that his speech ...
REPLY - But let me.
Q. - He used these terms.
ANSWER - has run a ton that makes the music, her first comment to me
again, but the tone of official good I find it vaguely ...
Q. - You said ...
ANSWER - Self-explanatory.
Q. - I used the words that you used.
ANSWER - Yes, but the tone seems a bit 'acrimonious, if it helps.
Q. - No, absolutely not mocking.
ANSWER - The irony in this situation ... I do not think that my position is ...
(Inaudible)
Q. - But God forbid no, no there really is absolutely laughable.
ANSWER - Here.
Q. - And there are ironic assure you.
ANSWER - This makes me ...
Q. - You used the term before but the intervention of the ...
ANSWER - Happy official right.
Q. - Have official and said that part of good ethics official, no action to
report a legal position against the face of which can be, now I'm
summarizing what I think was the content of your answer, but stop it,
that's what I've learned is that I know of his speech. That is, she decided
to act as a good officer physically stopping crimes that were performing in
front of him to damage ...
ANSWER - This was an assessment that I still had not precise, however.
Q. - You said that when he realized that there were no fights in progress,
but one-sided fights, used this expression?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - What is an understatement to say that one is beaten up by thrashing.
ANSWER - (inaudible)

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - President what he should write a

complaint to get there.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I do not know.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - It 's a question that frankly ...
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - Me will tell his client.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. S. Romanelli - are unrealistic.

Q. - So is he who said that it took no action in this way. The explanation

that I ask is this, not just at what happened there at the top. She realized
that the situation was leading in that building, was giving rise to the
complaint proceedings against the persons occupying the building.
Namely, that steps would be taken to arrest?
ANSWER - I did not know anything.
Q. - Did you see?
REPLY - Or I was competing because we do not, that I do not compete that
an operator of our department.
Q. - Did you see that these people were loaded on transport and there was
also a problem to arrange transportation of those arrested? Do you
remember?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Q. - You have accompanied some of these?
ANSWER - Yes, those were, say, than whole.
Q. - that interaction, those were broken in the hospital?
ANSWER - Well it seems to me obvious.
Q. - Where accompanied them?
ANSWER - I've accompanied them to Bolzaneto.
Q. - What was Bolzaneto she knew?
ANSWER - I knew it was the center that the police had set up with the
DAP, etc. to hold the detainees.
Q. - I stopped after she has prepared a report on the 27th. But before
writing this report, employment of 27, went to the police station, she was
first reported by Dr. Murgolo compliments received, understood that they
were also spreading the word about what had happened?
ANSWER - Absolutely I was not aware of.
Q. - You have received the information from the agent Nocera, about what
had happened Nocera agent within the school, before ...
ANSWER - Summary.
QUESTION - Summary. He said he also saw the jacket between the
findings of the agent?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - If I remember correctly?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Oh, he saw that the agent Nocera reported that what had happened
to someone, that he had to prepare a report for service?
ANSWER - This I learned in the days following.
Q. - When the days that followed, has learned all these things and I
suppose even the arrest of these people?
ANSWER - No I have not been able to arrest this.
Q. - Do not you ever knew?
ANSWER - I knew early that instead of the great controversy had been
created. The arrest did not depend on me, I had written records of arrest.
Q. - you did not draw up the minutes of arrest? No doubt?
ANSWER - I did not, and I had just had a vision of a first floor. I could not
honestly imagine what had happened elsewhere, I suppose.
Q. - But you never know who these people were arrested for the
resistance?
ANSWER - No stops between being detained for identification or other
there's a big difference. The coercive treatment they were subjected, I
learned later in the newspapers. I was not.
Q. - So at some point it has not been able to arrest?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - A few days later?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Q. - His subject Nocera, the episode of the knife?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you know that he had to sign the minutes?
ANSWER - No, I learned that I only later. I matter of minutes, the matter
of ...
Q. - I mean nobody told you who was responsible?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not ...
Q. - To the Core?
ANSWER - Absolutely not the minutes.
Q. - not even told you that Nocera?
ANSWER - No.
Q. - I did sign the report?
ANSWER - No, no, no.
Q. - Why, for example, Nocera said it perhaps a Canterini? I think?
ANSWER - I do not know.

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - President's opposition, Nocera

said nothing.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No, no, okay I withdraw the question.
Q. - But you know all these circumstances?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Even though it later?
ANSWER - Yes.
Questions - and then having the knowledge that people, at least that she
has seen assaulted on the first floor?
ANSWER - I ... I ...
Q. - were slandered under arrest because he had been charged acts of
resistance did not say anything?
ANSWER - No attention, firstly, the only person I could recognize it was
reasonable of the person, the person ... ehhh ...
Q. - What?
ANSWER - Perhaps ...
Q. - It 's a person?
ANSWER - A person but not anymore.
Q. - Arrested for strength, violence and threat to public safety while there
is the raid?
ANSWER - Yes, but I do not see ...

CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - President's opposition to this

question also why a person might well have resisted, he could not know
then?
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - No really I think the President has ruled
that the accused fights bilateral.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - When did you see him.

CHAIRMAN - Okay so ...

Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - And when ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - And he can not exclude that there
was not the first excuse.
PRESIDENT - (inaudible) on the first floor said, so the second could have
happened (inaudible)
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - But I'm talking about the fact arrested on
the first floor.
PRESIDENT - On the first floor does not know who they were arrested.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - (inaudible)

ANSWER - The dying girl I assume that has not been arrested I mean.
Q. - And he was instead.
ANSWER - It 's been arrested?
Q. - And 'yes sir been arrested.
ANSWER - It 's been arrested?
Q. - You have a criminal case has been ... has undergone a criminal and
now has been filed, but was stopped short.
ANSWER - This I the stranger.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - With no further questions.

CIVIL PARTY CHAMBERS. Bigliazzi

Q. - Just a clarification, perhaps it's a detail that has already been caught,
but I suggested the question my colleague Porciani. It 's just on the
operation of the radio?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - When she says she had a partial operation virtually, meaning that
they could use it to talk only officials and team leaders?
ANSWER - The other could, but should not speak except on an emergency.
Q. - Well, here is my question then was simply the obstacle was not
technical but it was only legislation?
ANSWER - Statement, so let's call it the standard.
Reference - Statement okay, so if they had a need they could use it?
ANSWER - I would have called.
Q. - Perfect thanks.

PRESIDENT
Q. - Only a small clarification. She said the helmets of the "Seventh Unit"
and cintorini the "Seventh Unit" had been distributed to officials of the
Police Station?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Well, it sure had helmets and belts?
ANSWER - Yes, it was the only thing, beyond the Tonfa, was the only thing
that differentiates us, yes, yes only one, there were no ...
Q. - Why do I say, I seem to remember that Dr Canterini has said that the
belts were numbered so they could not be given to anyone?
REPLY - But that does not ... however, it seems to me that they were also
distributed to officials.
Q. - Even?
RESPONSE - The Department horse we had them identical.
Q. - Even the belts?
ANSWER - Yes, I think so.
CHAIRMAN - Okay thanks can go.

Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - President requesting the production of

small drawing, drawings that were shown.
CHAIRMAN - There is the certificate I think, no maybe we've already seen
then.
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I do not know but it was already challenged
in order to avoid it.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - The products are already certified.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - but it is a certificate ...
PRESIDENT - And tomorrow we?
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - President tomorrow and we have
no one remembers that we have no one because I think that after those
other days, no one wants to submit the forms, it means that if we deem
them to intervene with spontaneous statements or produce records.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - and therefore I would ask then-President
that tomorrow there could be seen to produce formally because I still have
a quote, a date set for tomorrow for Ledote Zaccaria, if tomorrow I note
that there is no tomorrow at this point produce and then maybe we have
to dissolve the reservations.
CHAIRMAN - So the reserves that we took last time I read there's an
order ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - President I think it would be
appropriate to do an interview just for all the productions, not from time to
time because it may well be that in the meantime Ledote foreigners may
be I can not even think about it.
PRESIDENT - But since then we have tomorrow to hear no one can ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - But I say ... are not mine, I say
like, like ...
PRESIDENT - But all come to make a hearing to decide only on the
productions?
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - I think frankly.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Okay.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Iunco - We next Wednesday.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - Wednesday, however, what you do.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - Wednesday, should begin the text
of the civil parties is not it? We could begin to feel the lyrics of the civil
parties?
Prosecutor Cardona DOCTOR - I mean then it is certain that at this point
does not occur anymore.
PRESIDENT - From what I've heard there's denial.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Romanelli S. - We can talk to our own.
PRESIDENT - The others have already mentioned I think.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - said the last time the lawyer Corini.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - is associated.
PRESIDENT - It 's Advocate Porciani he had sent a fax saying he was going.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Porciani - (off microphone)
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. - The President of the Defense Sarro had not yet
done so, announced that his client did not undertake the examination and
so we wanted to know when you will set a hearing to determine what
records of which should be read in theory, but I assume that will be
acquired because it is physically impossible to give physically, because
there is also among the acts done by verbal questioning of these
defenders against one of the defendants, and then wanted to know if it is
a moment in the files of the prosecutor, wanted it to be acquired and we
wanted to provide the agreement until it was used against Sarro, because
otherwise it is acquired with the 513 would not be used against Sarro, I
am referring to a defensive interrogation of Dr. Mortola made against this
defense, I do not remember the date, I apologize for not back of my copy.
PRESIDENT - But I believe it is Sarro is not in default. And 'present.
Zucca Prosecutor DOCTOR - I think he had attended the first hearing. I do
not remember though. I do not know if it was declared in default here
among others.
PRESIDENT - I think it was the only one ...
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - No, no President of sight because the
College was attended by Dr. Mortola and Dr. Dominici.
PRESIDENT - Dominici, Mortola and Sarro.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - Then Sarro I think it came at the first
hearing before this Board.
PRESIDENT - Then were there.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - eh I think I would not be wrong on this.
PRESIDENT - Here we are in fact the case. If you do not wish to respond
then the examination will tell. Should report, if they do not want to say
here ... Okay, so while the things we've already decided we can read
them, then you'll see any, with respect to capture instances that have
already been proposed, and those on the texts we have an ordinance on
the applications made by the prosecutor at the hearing on May 30, after
hearing Parties noted with regard to the surrender of the calling text
Emanich Tomas, Philippe Blanchard, Jack Hanry, Marta Vincenzi, Phicock
Richard, Christian Majer, Napoletano Claudio, Armando Mannucci, Anthony
Elanaspa Claver, other parties with the exception of the Advocate Masha
have pleaded no consequence, their consent in this regard. However, we
believe that the arguments on which such tests could be hired and have
already formed the subject of numerous depositions, and consequently
their employment status is entirely superfluous, in place of the witness list
originally defined by giving the prosecution was taken with the consent of
other parties, the heads Piritore, held that under the provisions of Article
512 of the Criminal Procedure Code can actually disporsi acquisition of the
records of statements taken by the heads Salvatore Micalizzi or died
during the course of proceedings that disporsi on the agreement of the
parties can also acquire the report prepared by the service heads Magrone
Joseph. Noted with regard to the request of the acquisitions of the minutes
of the declaration made by the Public Prosecutor Backsas foreign texts,
and Henghel Massos, Samperiz, Zehonar, Charcman not mentioned that
the same ritual occurred without giving any cause for such failure.
Therefore considered that under the provisions of Article 512 Bis can
acquire these records, taking into account the acquisition took place a
number of other statements about the facts of the alert and cited
statements of the obvious impossibility of hearing to examine them, not
having the Court the coercive power to dispose of the accompaniment,
since the foreigners living abroad, that the minutes of the statements
made by the Public Prosecutor Alujeva texts, and Jampask Schniederer,
may also be obtained under the provisions of Article 512, word processing
currently unavailable as it is now for the first of attempted notification
made with negative results by the Spanish and the other two as reported
by the Federal Ministry of Justice in Berlin and by the prosecution of
Lunenburg, and there is no doubt this was unpredictable on-call, Pending
their quality of EU citizens correctly identified. Considering that in the
absence of specific claims in this regard can also be taken forward by the
prosecution witness Golsuna which political refugee in Switzerland, sought
by Turkish police as reported by the Public Ministry has plenty of
opportunities to present themselves at trial. Considered with regard to the
minutes of the statements made by the accused to the Public Prosecutor
Vincent Singers that can disporsene the acquisition, expressed the
consensus in this regard by his lawyer Advocate Romanelli, but in the
absence of an express consent from the other defenders of the accused ,
such statements can not be used against them, which ultimately can
disporsi the acquisition of verbal statements made to the Public
Prosecutor by the Prefect of La Barbera, who died in the course of
proceedings, having regard to Articles 493 and 512 and 512 provides for
the acquisition to Bis proceedings of the hearing by reading the following
documents, records of statements made during the preliminary
investigation by the texts Alujeva Fortuja Rosana, Barzach Grezvar,
Heghel Iaroslav, Cherchman Dirk, William Masso, Salvatore Micalizzi,
Paszche Jan, Samperiz Francisco Javier, and Simon Schider Zehoner Anna
Caterina, minutes of lawsuit filed by Golsuna, verbal statements made by
the accused to the Public Prosecutor Vincent Singers with limitations to
their use specified in motivation, verbal statements made to the Public
Prosecutor by the Prefect of La Barbera, who has not give rise recruitment
of texts Philippe Blanchard, Alberto Dandona, Emanich Tomas, Elanaspa
Clavert Antonio, Armando Manucci, Christian Majer, Napoletano Claudio,
Phico Richard and Marta Vincenzi.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - President sorry maybe I was not careful
enough, I have not heard if the usability of the reports of Dr. Canterini is
limited only to the defenders who have not consented, because I think in
the end perhaps the lawyer Corini I give consent.
PRESIDENT - He said he has not delivered ...
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - There was only the Attorney Bugno if I
remember correctly.
ITEM - It 's a problem of fairness Advocate Corini fact that they had given
their consent, but against that underscore the President said at this point
to avoid allegations of misconduct ...
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - But even the other defenders, it seems that
only the attorney Bugno had expressed dissent.
CHAIRMAN - So since no one has expressed a clear consensus, so far
these can be used only against those who made this clear. The others
were silent, it could be assumed that they had given their consent, but
that was not the same lawyer and Corini in declaring that only on grounds
of fairness withdrew the objection does not mean that has expressed the
usability of the interrogation . So at this point apply only to the Advocate
Romanelli, part Canterini short. Then tomorrow we do not have anyone
coming to fix it when the hearing is unnecessary, I think, and then we go
to Wednesday.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Cardona - There is still the question of records of
telephone calls 113.
CHAIRMAN - We tell you which ones when the defense wants to hear the
scan. The others have already acquired? Those of the Public Ministry have
already acquired?
Prosecutor DOCTOR Zucca - That's it for granted so we can also support
DVD that is the subject of an order display, and then say it is physically on
the file. So I pose this problem, a fact that unfortunately with the death of
the consultant can not of course speak with the consultant, even on other
calls. The exception to the defense that did not meet our opposition in
principle, we just wanted to know which phone calls could be important
for the protection, then if I understand also the purpose of saying I'll
mention it now because it is not been transcribed interim, to transcribe
appropriate unless there is consent must do so through an expert, you
better do it now because if we do it in the end we are wasting time that
way. So taking advantage of the situation reported by the Defense and say
the same purpose, the prosecutor realized that there is also a series of
phone calls that would deserve a transcript and would therefore need to
identify by all the parties series of phone calls that would be subject to
investigation requests the Court to say expert, but of course are those
that occurred 14 000, Defence has announced a 37, the prosecutor could
probably indicate a fortnight here. If this situation the Court may, perhaps
next time when there are defenders who have made that request, it can
perhaps be assessed here may request access to this finding an expert
who can only say some, we say that we were told that (inaudible ) a
month even, say the operation can be accomplished here.
CHAIRMAN - Okay, let's have a look while calls to be acquired, either by
one party on the other.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - We were ready for that, unfortunately
missing.
CHAIRMAN - Yes, there were those who had asked Attorney Corini then
expect it to be next time. Then I felt there was ...
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - (inaudible) here but then here we say the
accounts without his host, in the sense that the defense is well understood
already has taken steps to make the transcripts, now the prosecutor has
been informed by the civil party The plaintiffs themselves have carried out
the transcript here. We will have no objection as to say ...
PRESIDENT - That's what I meant.
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - the storage of transcripts already made
and, similarly, it could seek consensus on ...
CHAIRMAN - If there are transcripts already made, it may be that no one
reading it relies on the production of the other, so you avoid making
advice. This fact, however, we expect the Attorney Corini. If you compare
the same, but we do this then the next hearing. For the next hearing on
Wednesday, the plaintiffs can be done?
Prosecutor DOCTOR Pumpkin - You see, there was also the last subject had
been corrected but say the full list of witnesses, and we intend to give up
at this point that those witnesses had mistakenly referred to as already
heard and those designated by the Court because they are not actually
were heard. Neither Ivan Giovannetti texts are probably also in the list of
civil parties could recover here if I do not know.
CHAIRMAN - Okay while we are just put on record that the prosecutor had
to renounce hours Zielisch Ann, and Hermann Jocken Broherman
Giovannetti and others we have already replaced, that is, Nicora, Gregori,
Dandona have been replaced, Pizzo Anna is in the lists Civil Party, and
then we let him in ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Spire - In the meantime, maybe the prosecutor
controls, maybe I did not understand, I found in regard to the examination
of the accused, so we put something in the minutes or less, in the sense
that ... I did not understand at this point.
CHAIRMAN - We have put on record that the lawyers say they will not
answer questions.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Spire - So for all?
PRESIDENT - For everyone.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Spire - Okay and I apologize President, those
who were present need to express it myself?
PRESIDENT - you should come and express yourself.
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Junca - It 's enough for the Court if you submit a
written statement with notarized signature?
PRESIDENT - I think we have already said no to ...
CHAMBERS OF DEFENCE. Junca - Then we make them attend next
Wednesday only to declare that in my case and is subject to consent of
usability quell'interrogatorio I got ... Very well, thank President.
CHAIRMAN - This is for the plaintiffs would be appropriate as did the
prosecutor began to make a list of the texts they want to hear and settle a
week before, now when you can in Chancery so that the defenders know
the texts that we feel Well too short to get a picture then. Okay I'll see you
Wednesday.