Endless Return of the Nazi Saucers http://naziufomythos.greyfalcon.us/Endless Return.

htm

THE ENDLESS RETURN OF THE NAZI SAUCERS:

Comment on a presentation by Jean-Pierre Troadec in the sensationalist French
magazine "Top Secret"

Top Secret is a French magazine publishing articles of all sorts of

authors, in connection with UFOs, the "paranormal", conspiracy
theories, the esoteric mysteries and so on, fore worded at the
same time of slogans about "Truths" with a capital T and
"warnings" inviting the reader to "make his own investigation to
form his own opinion." Issue 24 shows a painting of a huge flying
saucer with machine-guns and swastikas, landed for
maintenance on an air base strip. A headline explains: UFOS of
the 3rd Reich - Are Nazi Secret Weapon the Origin of the
UFO Phenomenon?

They are not, but for more than 50 years now this theory
re-appears regularly, each time refuted, each time resurrected as
if nothing were said. Here it is again following an article claiming
that there are indigenous inhabitants on the Moon and another
that tells that UFOs are manufactured by a mysterious terrestrial
super-intelligence who wants to save planet from ecological
disaster.

Go beyond the illustration and the sensationalist headline of the

front cover and follow in a step by step guided visit about the
claims in this article on the infamous Nazi flying saucers written
by the journalist and ufologist Jean-Pierre Troadec.

The headlines is Nazi UFOS - the Secret Plans of the Third Reich.

On the left, there is a photograph of an SS cap with the skull ensign, below, there is a painting of a false
Nazi flying saucer, and a "warning" which specifies that the article is not a tribute to the Nazi regime, that it
is only about an "historical perspective", that it is a matter of "going beyond the controversies" and of
"trying to take necessary distance" and that there is "no compromise with the duty of memory." Actually,
no distancing is carried out, and the "duty of memory" here consists in propagating falsifications of the
story of aeronautics, propagating errors in the field of aeronautics, false interpretations of documents,
allotting false ideas to ufologists and making absolutely laughable reasoning errors.

Still in the warning, it is claimed that the article "will shed light" on German secret projects, and that the
result of these secret projects "might constitute" the UFOS seen at the beginning of the Fifties. But we
shall see that it is not so: instead of shedding light, the article propagates shameless lies. Is this by
ignorance?

The article claims in the introduction that in spite of what was written about this tragic period of history, an
ignored aspect of the war was almost never presented to the public, the fact that the Nazis had built secret
flying weapons.

This is actually entirely false, for there is a plethora of documentary and books of good quality on the
German planes of World War II, and more particularly on their most advanced flying machines, from the
Me 262 jet fighter to the V1 and V2 rockets, not to mention the Bachem Natter and the wooden flying
wings of the Horten brothers, and there is on the other side a plethora of pseudo-documentary videos and
DVDs, foolish books and articles on the Nazi flying saucer lore. When the author claims that there is
something "ignored" here, he is mistaken, the theories on Nazi flying saucers as well as their
refutations have blossomed everywhere. The relative lack of success of these theories is not due to a
lack of information or public ignorance, it is due to the entirely justified mistrust of the public as to the
value of these theories.

Delta wings

The author then claims that these secret aircraft had been "either
of circular form or in the shape of delta wing", which is still
entirely false. For example, it is perfectly true that engineer
Alexander Martin Lippisch (1894 - 1976) had studied the delta
wing, but nothing was built by the Nazis using a delta wing. Only
a small size sailplane was built by Lippisch, who wanted to

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evaluate lift and drag of a delta shaped wing, the DM-1. The
objective of the construction of this sailplane was to check if a
delta plane is stable. It was by no means a "Nazi flying saucer".
His attempt to make a delta-winged plane was not supported at all
by the Nazis; on the contrary, the war prevented Lippisch from
pursuing his delta wing studies!

It was the Americans and the French who pursued the concept of
the delta wing, the French tardily with their famous Mirage III and
IV by Dassault, and the Americans with a prototype initially.

As Lippisch had not been able to continue the development of the delta wing concept under the Nazi
regime, he was delighted by be able to do it in the United States within NACA, the ancestor of NASA. The
allies sent him with his model to Langley at the NACA laboratories. Convair had on their side made some
tests of delta wings with their P-92 prototype, and with the assistance of Lippisch, work on P-92 was
continued and led to the first prototype of plane with a purely delta wing, Convair XF-92À, that first flew in
1949. The XF-92 is currently on display at US Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB.

XF-92A having made it possible to check that the delta wing was sufficiently stable and had certain
interesting qualities, Convair then developed the F-102 then F-106 jet fighters using the delta wing.

The F-102 tests began in 1953, and it was the occasion of discovered famous law of the surfaces, solution of an
aerodynamic problem which obstructed stable supersonic flight. F-102, first productive delta winged jet, was improved
and then F-106 came out, the two models actually used by the US Air Force. Contrarily to the claims of Jean-Pierre
Troadec, the Nazis did not fly any delta winged plane!

The author tells then, but in the conditional, that the Germans "would have built" true flying saucers
capable of vertical takeoff, the "Vril" and "Haunebu", and claims that these projects "were ignored of
general public".

In reality, it has been more than 50 years that a totally dubious literature floods the general public on this
matter, and it is within this abundant and by no means hidden literature that the author found the
substance of his article.

The article itself begin with rather meaningless sentences of general considerations, rambling on about
"experts" that "dispute" on "the relevance of the file", UFOs as existing or not existing, or UFOs are "you
are pro or con", and about "difficulties" to "reject witnesses and documents" etc.

Inaccurate things are then written again. For the third time, it is claimed that "everyone" was "unaware of"
the matter of Nazi prototypes. This is entirely false, the subject was absolutely not ignored, but on the
contrary it has been explained on for more than 50 years and the myths on the flying saucers Nazi were
refuted on many occasions by the serious researchers who really studied the question. Jean-Pierre Troadec
does not seem to take notice of any refutations, or make any mention at all.

The following assertion is also false. The author claims that "ufologists" reject the existence of Nazi flying
saucers as being an "operation of disinformation aiming at dismissing the extraterrestrial hypothesis." This
is false, only some marginal ufologists went in this direction. In reality, the majority of ufologists reject
Nazi flying saucers for a quite different reason: they simply never existed.

A good example of intellectual terrorism on behalf of the author follows, when he writes: "feeling directly
attacked, some are maddened at the point to become blind and then intransigent."

What he means is that if you dare think that Nazi flying saucers never existed, you are in the error, you are
blind and intransigent. This bad rhetoric is a telltale sign which does not mislead serious people. It is not
by claiming that ufologists are "blind and intransigents" that the author will convince that the Nazi saucers
existed, it is by bringing some proof, or at least, some elements of probability.

The author then defends the relevance of the question. But there again, this is really not the problem. It is
by no means illegitimate to raise the question of a Nazi origin of the UFOs, but this question was already
tackled many times; the negative answers sit here since long, while the alleged convincing or at least
intriguing are still missing.

The author then recalls that identified flying craft observations began in 1947. Actually, these observations
already existed during World War II with the "Foo Fighters" or "the Light" or "the Thing", not to mention all
the reports that, no matter what they could have been, cannot have the least relationship with Nazi flying
saucers since they go back well beyond the time of the Nazi regime.

Adamski and alleged evidence of the existence of Nazi saucers

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The author claims that the 1947 reports talk about flying saucers whose occupants are tall and blonde and
sometimes spoke with a strong German accent. Actually, it is not true. There are of course some late
stories invented by eccentrics a long time after the 40's and telling such things, but no serious case, and
the author indicates none, which prevents the reader from checking what he claims and realize that those
were only newspapers anecdotes or long-debunked "contactees" claims and not reliable and investigated
UFO sightings.

Actually, these silly contactees stories are almost never a matter of "blond
giants with a German accent" but Venusian or others alleged extraterrestrial of
quasi human appearance, which is obviously nonsense. The close encounters
of the third kind with observation of UFO occupant show in smashing majority
that occupants of UFOs are NOT human beings, even less "blonde giants with
a German accent", and, must it be said, the Germans are obviously not all
"blonde giants" either.

But the author seems to really believe what Adamski told. (There is in insert on
this topic at the foot of the page, which is perhaps a comment of the editor: it
is said that Adamski's photographs are "probably forgeries", then that they are
all the same to consider seriously with the reason that "there is something
utterly German in the ergonomics [sic] of this craft.") Pseudo-professor Adamski
posing in front of a painting
representing the "Venusian" he
The author tells that the infamous adventures of George Adamski "contains
claimed to have met. Far from
pieces bringing us closer to Germany." resembling some giant blonde
Nazi, he is described by Adamski
As evidence, the author first states that a plaster as of almost female beauty, with
molding of footsteps, made by Adamski as a proof of long hair, a very non-military
his encounter with a Venusian, shows that there were behavior, and the ideology that
Adamski claims told by
two swastikas on the soles of alleged Venusian's shoes.
the Venusian has nothing
Actually these plaster moldings were made by his friend Nazi about it.
George Williamson the very same day of the alleged
encounter, as the accomplices had thought of taking
plaster with them, interestingly. A drawing was made
thereafter to illustrate these alleged plaster moldings

As anyone could figure out, there isn't two but one

swastika, and it is of Tibetan design and not Nazi
design.

It did not take long for the Belgian ufologist Franck

Boitte to discover that before traveling with the
Venusians to see the dark side of the moon and its forests, Adamski was set
on Tibetan Buddhism of which the swastika was a symbol well before Hitler
re-used it. In the years of the prohibition of alcohol in the USA, Adamski had
indeed founded a tiny cult which he used as smokescreen of his alcohol traffic,
Royal Order of Tibet, claiming he was a professor and inventing trips to Tibet
he never made.

The other claimed element supposed to link

Adamski's Venusian and Nazi flying saucers is that The cover of the 1959 book of
a photograph of an alleged flying saucer taken by another alleged "contactee",
Howard Menger. The saucer's
Adamski again shows a swastika, this time on the shape is strictly the same as that
saucer. . of the lamp top of Adamski.
Menger would marry the Venusian
One of the fake saucer photographs shown by blonde, who had nothing of a Nazi
Adamski was actually a porcelain lamp top and no German accent.
Swastika? decorated with table tennis balls. Although all
serious ufologists know about that, Jean-Pierre
Troadec quite simply does as if the photographs were real.

Adamski had foreseen that close analysis of his photographs may reveal the porcelain aspect and thus his
description of the saucer's appearance complies to porcelain: "It was a marvelous small machine,
resembling more a heavy bell of glass than a flying saucer. However I could not see through" the glass-like
matter.

Two other things that, the first is the false claim of certain eccentrics that pretend that a film of a flying
saucer which is really a fake by Lonzo Dove and which they claim as a genuine footage by Madeleine
Rodeffer would show a swastika on the "saucer". The footage is a such a gross forgery that any sensible

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person would burst into laughter, and there is actually no swastika on it.

The story of the drawing is as follows: Adamski told that at their

first meeting, the Venusian had borrowed the photographic plate
he had taken of their saucer. He told that on December 13,
meeting the Venusians again, he asked them if he could have his
plate back and a Venusian threw a plate back to him from a
window of their saucer, but that instead of his plate, what they
threw at him was this drawing, that Adamski called "the
substituted photograph." As Jean-Pierre Troadec just heard speak
of that and did not get the details right, and did not take any care
to dig into the story, he tells that this drawing is a photograph of
saucer Nazi with swastika...

A Pierre Gilder, who claimed to be a psychic, even managed to plagiarize the

drawing by making a bad copy of it which he claimed was "writings of the
people of Atlantis"...

After Adamski's fake saucer photographs were publicized, other liars made
fake photographs using the same shape than Adamski's as a trick to
credibility. Instead of realizing that forgeries inspire forgeries, Jean-Pierre
Troadec thinks that one fake proves the other genuine.

Fake blueprints of a Nazi "Haunebu" flying

saucer appeared after the fake photographs.
The silhouette of course recalls that on false Drawing of the flying saucer
photographs by Adamski, with inaccuracies that cult guru Claude Vorilhon
however, and other such false photographs and aka Raël claims to have seen,
again, an Adamski-type
drawings, but instead of realizing that it is only saucer... another proof of
normal, Jean-Pierre Troadec believes it proves a Nazi saucers?
link between UFOs and the alleged Nazi flying saucers. Jean-Pierre Troadec curiously
ignores this one.
You can also have a look again at the cover of Top Secret magazine at the
top of this article. The Adamski saucer is used again, changed into a HUGE
thing. The table tennis balls that Adamski used are changed into oversized
machine guns turrets...

One would expect that at some point the author specifies what all the
serious ufologists know and say, in France since 1954 with Aimé Michel,
namely that the infamous Adamski was only a liar, that there was never any
truth in his statements and photographs, but no: the author omits all
information which proves this, and letting the reader believe in Adamski lore,
goes straight to a next topic. Is this what is referred to as "historical The symbol that Raël says "was
engraved on the aircraft and the suit"
perspective" and "going beyond controversies"?
of the extraterrestrial being
he claimed he met.
V-7 saucer Another "puzzling fact"? In any case,
a "puzzling fact" forgotten by
The author writes that in the French ufological circles, the V-7 saucer is Jean-Pierre Troadec.
talked about since 1956. He writes that it was journalist and ufologist Too embarrassing maybe?
Charles Garreau who was the first to mention it. The author most seriously
ensures us that although Charles Garreau "did not indicate his direct ~from the book
"Le livre qui dit la vérité"
sources", it would be "confirmed" information since he knew Charles
Garreau and appreciated his professionalism.

Charles Garreau did tell in 1956 that the Nazis flew a V-7 flying saucer for the first time on May 17, 1944.
He wrote:

Equipped with twelve BMW 028 turbojets, provided with six stages autonomous compressors, it would
develop 5500 hp (5400 hp in flight) and 2600 kg of additional pressure (2900 kg in flight). The propulsion
would be carried out by twelve turbines inside a metal ring turning around the central mass. Neither
flames, nor smoke would be visible, the combustion gases being recovered by a special system developed
in 1938 by a British engineer.

The problem here is that Charles Garreau merely quotes what he had read in German tabloid magazines
that supplied their readers with pseudo "Nazi saucers" throughout the Fifties.

Imagine that in 2056, a gullible journalist ufologist finds in some attic a copy of 2006's "Top Secret"
magazine and then reports the stories of Jean-Pierre Troadec... The "ignored evidence" of the Nazi saucers

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for the gullible of year 2056 is already available!

Jean-Pierre Troadec does not understand the context of 1956. In these early years of French ufology,
many ufologists were still reticent to the notion of extraterrestrial visitors, an idea constantly scoffed at as
supposedly "irrational" without demonstration of the alleged "irrationality" of this notion, of course.

Thus, when the good Charles Garreau read in German magazines these stories of Nazi aeronautical
wonders, he gapes at this hope of a "rational" explanation of the saucers, of a human origin. Little green
men, as "everyone knows" are irrational, whereas men in feldgrau...

We are now into 2006, 50 years later, and it would be time for Jean-Pierre Troadec to revise the subject as
all sensible ufologists did since. Will he do it? Will it be in a forthcoming issue of Top Secret?

After having forgotten to do his homework on the "Adamski case", Jean Pierre Troadec is then adamant
that the Russians had recovered the blueprints of V7 and succeed in building a number of them. This is
completely invented. The Russians did recover some German blueprints, but absolutely no blueprints of
any "V7", a saucer that existed only as tabloid folklore.

For with regard to V7, only one thing is clear: there is nothing, not one shred of evidence, no blueprints,
no photographs other than faked ones and a few paintings, no serious source, no acceptable testimony to
support the notion of the existence of a "V7 flying saucer."

Let's see from where exactly the V-7 myth and the other myths of Nazi saucers originated while following
Jean-Pierre Troadec in his name dropping exercise.

"Doctor Miethe":

Troadec writes: "It is the time when there Miethe is contacted by the United States to come to work." He
writes that Miethe told that the Russians grabbed the V7's blueprints and would now build it.

In reality, it is a certain Julius Andreas Epp who told the V-7 stories. He ensured that during the war, he
transported submarines torpedoes, when one fine day he was asked to transport a "weapon of revenge",
V7.

As for "Doctor Miethe", the chap probably quite simply never existed. The first mention of "Miethe" goes
back to 1954, by an anonymous European author of a booklet on Nazi saucers. It told that "the creator of
V-7, Dr. Heinrich Richard Miethe, was in Canada to rebuild his saucer at Avro there." The fact that Avro
worked on their "Avrocar" disk shaped jet was known by the newspapers since 1953. It is then one Robert
Lusar who reproduces the inventions of the anonymous author, then Robert Jungk in his book Brighter
than a Thousand Suns in 1956, and so on, the invented Dr Miethe even changing first name along the
embellished versions.

Avrocar

Troadec evokes the Canadian Avrocar attempt and its total failure, but far from drawing the obvious
conclusion that this failure means that in 1961 a human flying saucer still did not fly, he affirms without
blinking a second that this failure was "on purpose" of "disinforming the public," for a reason left to the
imagination of the reader, as if this failure is proof of existence of human flying saucers.

A secret Russian document:

The author points at a "secret Russian document declassified in 2005" of which he says that it shows a
photograph of an experimental Russian flying saucer "built during the cold war." He ensures that this
"brings credibility to the statements by Miethe!" Actually, there is now a true industry of faked "Russian
secret document" sold with the biddings, bought by "documentary" directors and sensationalist authors of
the West who thrive for any piece of "possibly authentic document."

Claims on claims:

Names are dropped of Germans that allegedly took part in Nazi flying saucers projects during the war.
Upon claimed statements that are neither detailed nor sourced, the author subtly exploits the ignorance of
the reader by telling that the statements were not verified, but that their falseness has not been
proved either.

That is quite fantastic: I just realized that my grandmother was a Venusian ... Indeed, nobody ever
proved she wasn't.

That sort of "ufology" is really pathetic. Let's see all the same what the reality behind these "unverified but
potentially true" Nazi saucer engineers quoted by the author really amounts to, and those that he forgets.

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Giuseppe Belluzzo:

What Jean-Pierre Troadec forgets to tell is that all had publicly started with Giuseppe Belluzzo
(1876-1952), a former technician in the field of locomotive steam turbines, who turned into a fascist
politician and became minister of the economy for the Italian fascist government from 1925 to 1928. It is
he who was the first to publicly say something about a connection between the Nazis and the flying
saucers, in March 1950. There had just been many sighting reports of flying saucers in the Italian press,
and Belluzzo simply briefly appeared as informant saying these flying saucers were initially aeronautical
studies in Italy in 1942, then studies by the Nazis, and that in 1950 they can finally fly, and that they are
the explanation of flying saucers sightings from 1950 an on in Europe, adding that they are not piloted but
radio-controlled from the ground. The story, entirely deprived of evidence or testimonies, is then
reproduced in other newspapers, "Corriere della Sera", "Nazione", "Gazzetta del Popolo", "Corriere
d'Informazione" on March 29th and 30th, 1950, often completed by a refutation by General Ranza of the
Italian Air Force.

Giuseppe Bellonzo:

Some late authors write Giuseppe Bellonzo instead of Giuseppe Belluzzo!

Rudolf Schriever:

Days only after the first claims by Belluzzo appeared in the press,
a German named Rudolf Schriever told in an article of "Der
Spiegel" magazine of March 30, 1950, headline "Sie Fliegen Aber
Doch" ("but they do fly"), that he had drawn plans of a German
flying saucer in 1942, which was never built and that these plans
were maybe in the hands of the Russians or Americans now. It
was the first o publication of a drawing, although there is
absolutely no serious technical comment or documentation to
accompany it and presented a somehow whimsical aircraft. It
does however contain ideas that are not entirely crazy.

This original version of the drawing in the Spiegel in 1950 was

then republished ad infinitum as "genuine blueprint".

Was the idea totally crazy? Did this saucer Nazi really fly?

Not exactly. If you look closely at the drawing, you note that the propulsion is ensured by the rotation of a
broad blades rotor. All things considered, this is a kind of helicopter. If you look on the left under the rotor,
you will see a small turbine attached to one of the blades. The principle of this machine, really drawn by
Rudolf Schriever, was that of an helicopter whose rotor was put in motion by turbines hung on the blades.

For skeptics this might be a stupid and unrealizable idea. But actually, this idea is not silly or unrealizable,
on the contrary, it was realized. Astonishingly, it was realized by... the French!

The "French Nazi flying saucer" realized along the idea of Rudolf Schriever was the Djinn, aka SO 1221
built in France by Sud-Ouest Aviation, future SNIAS, as of 1953, an ultra-light utility helicopter.

Djinn was the first functional helicopter using gases and air ejection compressed by a gas turbine and sent
inside the two rotor blades to be expelled at their tips in order to put the rotor in motion. This concept
avoided a tail rotor, replaced by a gas exhaust, it automatically de-iced the rotor, and used the remainders
of gases ejected backwards for propulsion. The system had initially been tested on prototypes SO 1120
Ariel II (1948) and III (1951), but it is on the Djinn that it was actually used, via a Turbomeca Palouste IV
turbojet. The system was extremely maneuverable but not very fast, not exceeding 130 km/h.

But is it a flying saucer? Not!

Another craft based on the idea of a rotor with propulsion at the tips was the German Triebflügel project.

Secret documents of "Photovni":

The author tells that he found previously secret documents "recently published" on the "Photovni" website,
of which he claims that they prove that the Germans "worked on the flying discs." This time, there is no
conditional anymore, it is "proved by documents", it is claimed to be factual, the Germans built flying
saucers during the 2nd World War. However, after the presentations of these secret documents, the author
backs down and writes that these documents prove the reality of the Nazi flying saucers only "if they are
true."

Here are comments on the documents he discovered on that website:

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The letter of H.A. Ahuis of July 16, 1947:

The author says that Ahuis wrote to the US embassy in Germany and "raises the question of the flying
discs", that he "considered the topic" and "carried out various experiments since 1936" and would like "to
continue his research" in the United States.

Indeed, one Heinz-Adalbert Ahuis, in Germany, wrote to the US embassy on July 16, 1947, told that he
read the newspaper articles about the recovery of a flying disc in Roswell (the incident had been mentioned
in the newspapers all around the world), and that he does not believe that it was a balloon as General
Ramey said. He then explains that since 1936, he built wooden sailplanes models of all kinds of shapes to
try out ideas in aerodynamics, and that he would like to come to the United States to continue to test his
models.

The problem, as opposed to what Troadec thinks, is not at all that this document might be a fake. It is
genuine. The problem is that there is nothing in here that proves the existence of Nazi flying saucers.

George Klein, the 1953 CIA

document:

The author indicates that a 1953

document by the CIA is about a
German guy who claims that the
Russians have the plans of a Nazi
flying saucer as well as the flying
saucer itself. The author quotes
extracts of this document, and
indicates that it shows a photograph
of Georg Klein in Welt am Sontag for
April 1953.

The author claims: "This document

clarifies that" the Nazis "had made operational " three "prototypes" of flying saucers including one of 42
meters in diameter "at the end of 1944."

Does this document prove that the Germans "worked on the flying discs?" Does it attest what the author
claims? By no means.

Here is the reality:

This other source quoted by Jean-Pierre Troadec is nothing more than one of the many characters who
wanted to get some publicity by explaining the flying saucers as German craft of World War II.

It is actually about a South-African newspaper which tells that according to an

unnamed German newspaper, a "famous engineer" George Klein saw a Nazi
saucer taking off in 1945. Same tall tales than in 1950 are simply put into print
again by German sensationalist newspapers and tabloid magazines in the
following years.

There again, the problem, as opposed to what Troadec thinks, is not at all that
the CIA document could be a fake. It is "true". There are even at least two of
them that mention George Klein's tales. The problem is that it does not prove
one bit that there were Nazi flying saucers.

The FBI June 8, 1947 report:

According to the author, a report by the FBI of JJune 8, 1947 tells of some
Luftwaffe veteran who was engaged on the Russian front and photographed a
flying saucer in November 1944.

The Luftwaffe veteran, according to the author, then "experimented a secret Example of a German tabloid
magazine, "ZB Illustrierte" for
project in the Black Forest" in Germany which consisted in photographing the
December 1952, claiming "Das
flight tests of a German flying saucer equipped of several jet engines. gab's", ie "this existed" and telling
stories of Nazi flying saucers
Jean-Pierre Troadec's errors are countless, here is another one: actually this
FBI memo is not of 1947 but of 1967!

Does this attest that the Germans "worked on the flying discs?" By no means.

As with the previous documents, the problem, as opposed to what Troadec thinks, is not at all that this FBI

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document could be a fake. It is genuine. But it is merely one among hundreds of such memo noted by the
FBI about people telling tall tales...

The secret report of Lt. Collar Harry H. Perry of December 16, 1947:

There again, the author takes the readers for fools. This report is about the Horten brothers, and contains
absolutely nothing on any Nazi saucers.

Again, the issue is not whether the document is genuine or fake. It is genuine. The problem is
different:

As the Hortens' flying wings Horten are not at all flying discs but flying wings, the author, instead of
recognizing that this has nothing to do with alleged Nazi flying saucers, divagates about "contradictory
facts" and "convergent and at the same time divergent elements." All this is however very simple: the
Horten brothers built many wooden flying wings, this is a known fact, nothing secret, but that has nothing
to do with alleged Nazi flying saucers. These flying wings never explained even one UFO report, neither
during nor after the war, for the Hortens flying wings were used only for some sailplanes competitions
before the war, and of the two specimens equipped with turbojet, only one made one or two test flights
before being damaged an accident, flights that did not generate ANY UFO report.

The remainders of these two craft are visible in the museums, neither the Americans nor the Russians ever
continued their development, because the Russians developed their own planes which did not have a
saucer shape or flying wing shape, and the Americans had the flying wings by Northrop which did not have
anything to do with the wooden sailplanes of the Horten brothers, even equipped with turbojets.

To believe that the Hortens brothers flying wings explain the least UFO sighting reports is not to "shed
light", it is on the contrary to ignore completely that the light is made for a long time on this matter and to
spread confusion and ignorance.

What really is in the secret documents:

Thousands of pages of confidential or secret documents of the Air Force, US Army, FBI, CIA were
declassified in the US. What you can find in these documents is that US government agencies investigated
the Hortens brothers in 1949, because just like common people, they preferred to check whether the flying
saucers of 1947 were some Russian craft of German inspiration rat her than to speculate on
extraterrestrial visitors, a notion that was totally existing but viewed as ridiculous, reserved for science-
fiction pulp magazines and comics. The conclusions were clear: the achievements of the Hortens brothers
had no importance and all that they built were sailplanes in the shape of flying wings, made out of wood,
tissue and steel tubes, sometimes equipped with a regular small plane engine, and topped with two
prototypes equipped with jet turbines, that the Americans had seized.

What you can also find in these files

is that a true crowd of swindlers
and whimsical people contacted
since 1947 US government
agencies to tell all kinds of theories
on the famous flying saucers that
were much spoken to in these days.
Here an example of that sort of
things:

In this document, an investigator

explains that he is quite
embarrassed to have to submit a
report on foolish tales that he was
told, but that he nevertheless
believes. Two men who claimed
themselves psychics served him
stories on the flying saucers, seen
everywhere in the world, which they
said were built by the Nazis, and
which would continue in 1947 to fly
in the skies, Hitler himself being still
alive etc.

It should be known that after the

end of the war, American agencies
as the FBI were literally flooded of

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this kind of things, with hundreds

people telling that they recognized
Hitler in the street and so on.
Unhappy FBI agents had to
investigate into these lies, which
naturally never had any serious
base. But from time to time, people
told this kind of things to the
newspapers, and that is what is at
the source of the myth of a secret
survival of the Nazi regime and their
flying discs as explanation of the
flying saucers...

Nazi "Official secret weapons":

The author evokes V1 and V2

rockets and some other projects
that weren't as successful.
Everyone of course knows about
the success of V1 and V2 as
remarkable technical achievements,
everyone knows the continuation of
the story, leading to the Apollo
missions and the American and
Russian intercontinental ballistic
missiles.

All this has obviously nothing to do

with flying saucers, it has to do with
aviation history, true history, as
opposed to the flying saucers Nazi
mythology as explanation for UFO
sightings.

The BMW flying saucer:

The author claims that Lippisch and Schauberger "dominate the whole of these prototypes", after
mentioning projects of rockets and missiles. But these two engineers did not dominate anything of the
sort.

Lippisch, was something of an eccentric, but has nothing to do either with flying saucers. He was the first
to wonder whether a triangular wing, a "delta" wing, had interesting qualities, and it proved after the war
that the answer was in the positive.

Schauberger

The author claims that Schauberger had started in 1922 to develop a "perfect as can be imagined" flying
saucer functioning on "electromagnetic repulsion" and "succeeding in 1944." Just after having claimed that
"success", he indicates that this "work remained experimental" without specifying what he means by
experimental.

In reality, Viktor Schauberger (1885 - 1958) was a somehow whimsical

technician who did not build any flying saucer but had specialized in the
water turbines, which were not at all means of propulsion for flying saucers,
but for example of the water power turbines hydroelectric plants or grass
watering. His technical participation in German military aeronautics was
limited to working on water cooler systems for plane engines at
Messerschmitt's. Far from being eager to work for the Nazi regime, he was
spotted by the Gestapo as Hitler opponent and found himself in the
concentration camp of Matthausen before the war, leaving the camp only to
work for Messerschmitt. He has now become the subjects of fantasies,
allegedly inventor of a "magnetic flying saucer" called the "Repulsine", some Water turbine by Schauberger,
website going so far as to show one of his water turbines water as being a alleged to be a "Repulsine" Nazi
flying saucer. It appears on the
flying saucer! cover of a Renato Vesco book with
the
As of BMW, this company manufactured engines and not planes and even Luftwaffe logo added to it!
less flying saucers.

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Jean-Pierre Troadec then claims that there was really a true Nazi flying saucer of which he "found the
trace".

He claims that this real flying saucer Nazi was built by BMW and was named "Flügelrad I V-1", that it was
in "aluminum painted in gray", that the first tests took place on the aerodrome of Prag-Kbely between
August and September 1944, that it was a disc topped of a cupola sheltering a cockpit.

He claims the "propulsion system" was underneath the 6 meters in diameter disc and that there was a
landing gear of four wheels under the three tons craft.

He claims that during the tests "the rotor started to turn and the craft rose one meter in height", that it
flew at a distance of 300 meters before making an emergency landing, that although the flight was "not
very conclusive" it is indeed a "proven flying saucer built by the Nazis."

As of the proof, or "trace", he indicates the book by Friedrich Georg, Hitler's Miracle Weapon which "with
due respect to the contradictors" is "not a "saucerist" work"." As for the proof of the existence of this
saucer, it would be: "a color sketch that illustrates the text."

One really wonders in what a book would be "truthful" with the reason that it would "not be saucerist"...

Actually, this two volumes book, 2003-2005 does not really claim that it there was a German flying saucer,
and deals primarily with the German efforts towards the atomic bomb, their jet airplanes, V1, V2 rockets
and lots of other rockets and projects of weapons, whether produced or simply imagined. A rumor and a
color sketch is no flying saucer!

The author then claims that there was a second version of the BMW saucer, "painted in yellow", two-seater
and of 8 meters which would have been tested at the aerodrome of Neubiberg in the autumn of 1944. He
mentions "stability problems" which "are always a problem for durable flight."

This story of Troadec is a pure and simple plagiarism of an article on Wikipedia:

This machine was painted yellow and performed its first flight tests in late autumn 1944 at the Neubiberg
Aerodrome near BMW's Munich facility. Severe stability problems plagued the machine and the rudder
proved useless. Not to be deterred, BMW built another prototype designated BMW Flügelrad II V-1 in 1945
which kept the same body but discarded the failed rudder. ..

Wikipedia, known as "the free encyclopedia", is a kind of organized free for all where anyone can create
or modify any article in his own way. The Nazi saucers fans adore that, because it gives a pretence of
credibility to their stories for the naive readers who did not realize yet that they could too publish any
article on anything, and who do not notice the mention "Categories: Wikipedia article needing factual
verification."

The feast continues with the assertion that there were still four other versions, Flügelrad II V-1 of 13
meters, II V-2 and II V-3 then a model III 24 meters in diameter.

Jean-Pierre Troadec claims that the versions V-2 and V-3 "seem to have been more stable in the air".

He claims that "there is a photograph showing II V-2 in flight" then that "one finds only artists' impressions
coming from the current Czech Republic."

There is nothing true in all that. It is only lifted from whimsical books and websites.

As for the "photograph showing a II V-2 in flight", there are actually hundreds of fake photographs of Nazi
saucers in flight. The forgeries are very easy to make since there is plethora of plastic model kits of these
saucers, to glue together and paint...

Vril and Haunebu

The author indicates that in the Nineties, the 1995 book Secret Societies and Their Power in the 20th
Century by Jan van Helsing was "again, like a bomb in the ufological circles."

This, with the reason that "the book publishes plans" of "prototypes" of a Haunebu I flying saucer "tested
in 1939", a Haunebu II "which would have been built in 1940", a Haunebu III, a "Vril" flying saucer, etc.

New heights of nonsense are reached with one "Andromeda-Gerät", claimed by Troadec to have been a a
"large carrier plane of cylindrical form without wings of almost 150 meters length." He specifies: it
"probably never in this form", but "one finds authentic photographs of it"!

Without thinking twice about it, he allots the invention of that craft to the Waffen SS, with the reason that

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their dreaded initials appear on the blueprint and "a series of photographs showing these craft in flight."

The presented photographs

include a "Vril in flight" and
a "Haunebu II in test."

Whereas one could expect

from a sensible person that
he recognizes that tens of
late pseudo-photographs of
this kind are primarily faked
and prove strictly nothing,
Troadec manages to write
this unbelievably silly
sentence, true gem of
nonsense and irrationality:

There are too many

different documents to
think that all are faked.

He reproduces without
giving credit the pseudo-
blueprints which van
Helsing published in his
racist revisionist "Yellow
Book N.5", and finishes wondering whether this is a "vast operation of disinformation."

Several paragraphs then follow on the topic of an alleged difficulty of distinguishing truth from forgery.

Defective logic is at work again. The Nazi saucers are said to be possibly true because the Hortens' flying
wings existed, he believes. The late photographs, actually coming from neo-Nazi magazines, must also be
true, with the reason that "it must be acknowledged that in the Fifties, some witnesses of the times said to
have photographed these craft."

A feast of frauds

Jean-Pierre Troadec then indulges in whimsical descriptions of Nazi craft, par invented and part real, but
without any relation to flying saucers. What is amusing is that all this comes directly from a delirious
French website, that gathered exactly these craft on a web page that Jean-Pierre Troadec practically
copy-pasted there while adding even more errors, a web page which itself is a French-translated
plagiarism of a website that offers it to users willing to pay fees.

Let's see what Jean-Pierre Troadec makes of that:

Focke Wulfe Vtol:

The author claims that a Focke Wulfe Vtol craft of 1939

would be "the last prototype of discus shape". But it was
simply inspired by a modern drawing of such a machine,
which never existed even as a project, and is precisely not
the "last" Focke Wulfe vertical takeoff (Vtol) project. It
should be noted that no German military plane, even
prototypes, was painted yellow.

This "Vtol" craft that Troadec believes real is in fact purely a

late fabrication by one Justo Miranda, included in a German
magazine, and its existence is only that of a plastic model
kit.

Actually, there had been a project of machine on vertical takeoff at Focke Wulfe, called Triebflügel,
imagined by Heinz von Halem, but at the end of 1944 and not in 1939. It was absolutely not disc-shaped.

Triebflügel was meant to be a vertical takeoff "tail-sitter" fighter plane with a large propeller or rotor on the
fuselage. Its rotation was to be ensured by ramjets at the end of each blade, assisted by three Walter
rockets for takeoff. The project existed only on paper, one among hundreds of others.

Horten IX "and the Gotha series"

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The author claims that "Horten IX and the Gotha series in 1945" are delta-winged planes.

That is not true. The Hortens' planes were flying wings, none had a delta wing. The "Gotha series" never
existed pure and simple. the Horten brothers did not have a factory to build planes, and it was understood
that if their Horten jet were to prove satisfactory, it would be the Gotha manufacturer who would produce
it. But that was not the case. .

The author claims that "Gotha would have built no less than four models, P60 A, P60 B, P60 C, P60 D. This
is pure invention. The author found these ineptitudes on a sensationalist website which goes so far as
inventing "the Gotha series of the architect designer Dönitz" whereas Dönitz was the admiral of the
Kriegsmarine who led Germany after Hitler's suicide in the last days of the war.

Sack AS-6, claimed a "perfect flying

saucer"

We then get the Sack AS-6 plane,

introduced as being a "perfect flying
saucer plane", an utterly ludicrous
claim.

Sack AS6 comes from the first contest

of flying models motorized by
combustion engines organized in June
1939 in Leipzig-Mockau. Arthur Sack,
an original whose dream was a plane
with a circular wing, showed his model
AS1, which poorly behaved, having to
be launched with the hand and
showing absolutely no decent flight
behavior. In spite of that, Ernst Udet
who was the Air Secretary at that time
Blueprint of Sack AS6.
is said to have encouraged Sack to You really need to have been struck by lightning to call this poor plane a
pursue in this direction. He thus built "perfect flying saucer plane"...
four other models, and finally Sack
AS-6.

A prototype of the AS-6 was built in Mitteldeutsche Motorwerke, and was finalized at the Brandis airfield in
the beginning of 1944. It was built using the cockpit, the seat, the gear landing and the engine of a
Messerschmitt 109 wreckage, and its round wing was made out of wood. Taxiing tests took place in
February 1944, and revealed that its rudder was not strong enough: it quite simply broke. After repair and
reinforcement, there were 4 rolling tests at the limits of takeoff, and it was then noted that the mobile
plans of the wing was right into the turbulence zone and that the plane thus could not fly without crashing.
The right landing gear broke at the 3rd test. After repairs and modifications, at the 4th test, the plane took
off but immediately banked and almost crashed. The pilot told Sack that it was to better to call it a day and
leave it there, and Sack went back to his designer's office and produced nothing more after.

Focke Wulfe Ta 183:

Still follows the "Focke Wulfe Ta183", "a small short jet plane" which is alleged being "one of the most
advanced unconventional projects" of which "one finds plans of it that came out of the studies such as the
Secret Messerschmitt Projects.

But Focke Wulfe 183, by Hans Multhopp and Kurt Tank, had nothing more revolutionary than the
Messerschmitt 262 and of course absolutely nothing of a saucer.

The Germans couldn't build it before the end of the war. Whereas its chief project manager Kurt Tank fled
to Argentina at the invitation of the dictator Peron, where he improved the concept and produced I.Ae 33
Pulqui II for the Argentine Air Forces, the Russians recovered the German plans, and on July 2, 1947, their
MiG manufacturer flew a first prototype powered by a Rolls-Royce "Nene" British turbojet, much more
reliable than the German engine. The Russians noted that the German concept required much
improvement to fly satisfactorily, and they then developed a new plane of more effective silhouette that
would be a great success at the time of the Korean war: MiG 15.

Paperclip

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The author gives then a very deformed vision of the Paperclip Operation. Instead of simply explaining that
this Americans operation was to grab the best German researchers, that thus people of the importance of
Wernher von Braun became elements essential of the programs of rockets to come, leading to the Apollo
programs and the moon landings, he rather goes into misleading revisionists assertions on aeronautics.

Poor Charles Zimmerman...

Thus, he claims that "since 1945" the Americans manufactured " this military craft, the Chance Vought
Skimmer, a classic flying wing", and finds that "this craft stunningly resembles the German's Sack AS6"
and that thus "operation Paperclip played its role."

But actually, what Jean-Pierre Troadec calls the "Chance Vought Skimmer"...

...is absolutely not a flying wing, but a disc-shaped plane. Jean Pierre Troadec again confuses everything,
delta wing and flying wing by flying wing and disc here.

It does absolutely not date of "since 1945" but was designed by Charles Zimmerman well before the war,
at the beginning of the 1930's, Charles Zimmerman being the winner of the 1933 competition of the
National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) for his concept of circular wing plane, which owes
absolutely nothing to the Nazis.

Just like in the rest of his article and in spite of the claims of "objectivity", this is again outrageous
aeronautical revisionism!

More amusing is, Charles Zimmerman, who would likely come out of the grave if he could hear Jean-Pierre
Troadec's claims that his concept was an idea of the Nazis, was also the technical adviser to the Chief of
the Analysis Branch of the ATIC, of whom Edward Ruppelt head of Project Blue Book said:

I never could figure out exactly where he stood on the subject of UFOs but I think he was a bit of a
believer. Several times I tried to put through an explanation that a UFO was a balloon or other known
object and he'd argue like mad against it. Many times he'd come running into my office to show me "a
new, red hot report.

The very Charles Zimmerman who built the single prototype of Vought V-162 known under the name of
"Zimmer Skimmer" or "Flapjack" or "flying pancake" or "flying saucer", a plane whose contour of the wings
was in the shape of disc which was often incorrectly proposed (*) as "the explanation" for the UFOs, was
very interested in UFOs and obviously was actually convinced of their existence and their uncommon
nature.

(*) The only prototype having flown, V-173, never left its base of the Stratford plant, where it made its
first flight in November 1942, except for an air show where it was shown to the public with on the
municipal airfield of Bridgeport, causing besides a flying saucer report which was immediately solved, and
a "test" photograph of flying saucer about which I will speak elsewhere. The craft, known of the public
since it had made the cover of Mechanics Illustrated of May 1947, flew no more after the end July 1947. Its
projected military successor, the XF5U-1, was built as two specimen of which one was out of wood for
wind tunnel and the other never flew.

Horten and Northrop:

Ignorance reaches a new height when the author claims that Northrop's flying wings "are inspired by the
Hortens' delta wings." Actually, Jack Northrop has been designing flying wings for a long time, and when
after the war, one of the Hortens brothers wrote him to get a job at Northrop, he was not impressed at all
and that was it. To claim that Jack Northrop designed its machines using Nazi ideas, this is again
really outrageous!

He then claims then that the Silverbug Project consisted of "plans of flying saucers that the American army
tested in the Fifties" and that "officially this project did not really exist." He claims that a declassified 30
pages document "again states that the work outlined in this memo would be based on experimental work
of the Nazis!"

This is again blatantly false; not only was this project known and discussed in the newspapers a few
months after having started, in Canada and not in the United States, but again the craft never flew, could
not have flown, and owes nothing to claimed Nazi aeronautical magic.

One more word...

These rare ufologists who still imagine in spite of all that the Nazis built flying saucers, or that flying
saucers were built and flew by the Americans or Russians based on Nazi plans, or that UFO sighting
reports are or might be sightings Nazi saucers or their Russian or American versions, for the majority, are

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NOT Nazis, nor even sympathizers Nazism. The majority are certainly sincerely enemies of totalitarianism
and racism.

They are nevertheless responsible for what they tell. They claim to "objectivity" and claim that they are
"Truth" seekers, they claim that they do "research" and so on. When they tell nonsense, when they make
as if the Adamski's lies were true, as if aeronautical engineers such as Charles Zimmerman or Jack
Northrop owe their achievements to the Nazi, they do not make a "research" but propagate stupid things,
lies, inventions. They do not realize that they play - in all sincerity probably - the game of dangerous
people, who openly say how they benefit from the interest and fascination for the myth of the Nazi saucers
Nazi to sell books and video tapes which enrich their authors who are really Nazi sympathizers, who earn
money for their "cause" with these books, and openly say to benefit from this fascination to slip all kinds of
revisionist stuff of more serious matter than the lies and inventions concerning aeronautics.

The authors who take part in that are responsible. Instead of writing nonsense, they should make the easy
research, which hardly requires time, nor money, and learn the rudiments of the history of aviation and
aeronautical techniques. They should start their ufology from scratch and really consider what UFO reports
are, and they would discover that whereas the Nazi saucers stories are only lies, not one UFO sighting
report ever had as explanation a "Nazi saucer." They should realize that there is better to do in the field of
ufology than to feed often young readers who do not have yet the critical education and crave to get blown
away by the fantastic stories they like to hear, these ufologist should realize that their ignorance spread in
sensationalist articles benefits a bad cause.

The conclusion:

Jean-Pierre Troadec offers a verbose but meaningless conclusion. He says that Nazi flying saucers Nazi are
"a story more human than one imagines" and that they are - and this time the conditional is not used:
.”..in no was pure phantasmagoria as was said too often."

But yes it is, Nazi flying saucers are a pure phantasmagoria, and it has not been said
often enough. Authors ignorant of the real story of aviation and totally gullible German
constantly mislead their readers with false stories and drawings and fake images found
UFOs
with no effort on the Internet and really coming from neo-Nazi propaganda, they
present series of lies and nonsense many times refuted but presented over and over as
if nothing was ever said on the topic, while playing a game of intellectual terrorism and
while hiding all the very available information that shows why Nazi saucers are a
phantasmagoria.
Site
It is them, who spread disinformation.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

Sources claiming that Nazi flying saucers exist:

"Les OVNIS nazi - les plans secrets du troisième Reich", article by Jean-Pierre Troadec, in "Top Secret",
N.24, pp 26-33, April-May 2006.

In his article, Jean-Pierre Troadec claims that the thesis of the Nazi saucers "is ignored." Actually, there
were hundreds of books and tens of "documentaries" on the subject, a very selling topic... I cannot list all
of it, here thus just some landmarks of this production:

Before 1947 and the start of the controversy on the flying disks sightings, there was absolutely not one
story of Nazi flying saucers. This is because all these stories were made up by people skeptic about
extraterrestrial visitors and wanting to get attention with a "serious" explanation, that of man-made flying
saucers. From whom? From the Russians of course, but the Russians were supposed to be incapable of
building anything the Americans could not, so, the idea was that they stole German plans. Who promoted
such ideas? People in Germany and Italy nostalgic of Fascist and Nazi grandeur!

Giuseppe Belluzzo (1876-1952) is a former technician in the field of turbines, actually steam turbines for
locomotives who turned a fascist politician and became minister of the economy for the Italian fascist
government from 1925 to 1928, and he is the first to publicly tell of a link between the Nazis and the flying
saucers, in March 1950. There had then been many flying saucers sighting reports in the Italian press
then, and this Belluzzo simply briefly appears as informant that these flying saucers were studied initially in
Italy in 1942, then by the Nazis, but that it is only in 1950 that they started to fly, that they are the
explanation of the flying saucers reports since in 1950 in Europe, that they are radio-controlled from the
ground. The history, entirely deprived of evidence, is then rehashed by other newspapers, "Corriere della
Will be", "Nazione", "Gazzetta del Popolo", "Corriere d'Informazione" on the 29th and 30th of March 1950,
sometimes accompanied by a rebuttal by General Ranza of the Italian Air Forces.

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A few days after the first claims by Belluzzo appeared in the press, a German named Rudolf Schriever told
in an article of the magazine Der Spiegel of March 30, 1950, claiming he had drawn the plans of a Nazi
flying saucer in 1942, that the plans have maybe fallen into Russian or American hands. He is the first to
publish a drawing, with nothing serious to accompany it, neither technical information nor documentation.

Allen Harbinson is initially simply propagating the stories by Belluzzo a few days afterwards, but changing
parts of it and claiming that Nazi saucers were "ready" at the beginning of 1944 but that the advance of
the allied forces resulted in canceling the tests and destruction of the prototypes. Others thereafter would
quote this and further deform it to tell that according to Harbinson, the Nazi saucers did fly, flew
supersonic and so on.

Harbinson then writes a series of science-fiction novelettes inspired by all this, his "Project Saucer" series,
in which he tells stories of "Vril" and "Haunebu", that would later be propagated as "factual" by other
authors.

"German Secret Weapons of World War II", by "Major Lusar", tells the stories published in the newspapers
in 1950, mixing them together and holding them for factual. There is actually only two pages on the flying
saucers in his book, telling this:

Flying saucers have been whirling round the world since 1947, suddenly turning up here and there,
soaring in and darting off again at unprecedented speed with flames encircling the rim of the saucer's
disc. They have been located by radar, pursued by fighters and yet nobody has so far succeeded in
establishing the existence of such a "flying saucer" or managed to ram or shoot one down. The public,
even the experts, are perplexed by an ostensible mystery or a technical miracle. But slowly the truth is
coming out that even during the war German research workers and scientists made the first moves in the
direction of these "flying saucers". They built and tested such near-miraculous contraptions. Experts and
collaborators in this work confirm that the first projects, called "flying discs", were undertaken in 1941.
The designs for these "flying discs" were drawn up by the German experts Schriever, Habermohl and
Miethe, and the Italian Bellonzo [sic]. Habermohl and Schriever chose a wide-surface ring which rotated
round a fixed, cupola-shaped cockpit. The ring consisted of adjustable wing-discs [sic] which could be
brought into appropriate position for the take-off or horizontal flight respectively. Miethe developed a
discus-shaped plate of a diameter of 42m in which adjustable jets were inserted. Schriever and
Habermohl, who worked in Prague, took off with the first "flying disc" on February 14, 1945. Within three
minutes they climbed to an altitude of 12.400 meters and reached a speed of 2.000 km/h in horizontal
flight (!) It was intended ultimately to achieve speeds of 4,000 km/h.

Extensive preliminary tests and research were necessary before construction could be started. Because of
the great speed and the extraordinary heat stress, special heat-resisting materials had to be found. The
development, which cost millions, was almost completed at the end of the war. The then existing models
were destroyed but the plant in Breslau where Miethe worked fell into the hands of the Russians who took
all the material and the experts to Siberia, where work on these "flying saucers" is being successfully
continued.

Schriever escaped from Prague in time; Habermohl, however, is probably in the Soviet Union, as nothing
is known of his fate. The former designer Miethe is in the United States and, as far as is known, is building
"flying saucers" for the United States and Canada at the A. V. Roe works. Years ago, the U.S. Air Force
received orders not to fire at "flying saucers". This is an indication of the existence of American "flying
saucers" which must not be endangered. The flying shapes so far observed are stated to have diameters
of 16, 42, 45 and 75 m respectively and to reach speeds of up to 7,000 km/h. (?). In 1952 "flying
saucers" were definitely established over Korea and Press reports said they were seen also during the
NATO maneuvres in Alsace in the autumn of 1954. It can no longer be disputed that "flying saucers" exist.
But the fact that their existence is still being denied, particularly in America, because United States
developments have not progressed far enough to match the Soviet Union's, gives food for thought. There
also seems some hesitation to recognize that these novel "flying saucers" are far superior to conventional
aircraft - including modern turbo-jet machines - that they surpass their flying performance, load capacity
and maneuverability and thereby make them obsolete.

Eduard Ludwig, Nazi refugee in Chile, wrote in 1950 an article headlined "The Mystery of the Flying Discs"
which he would have liked to have published in a magazine but he did not convince editors to do so. His
article told that he worked at Junkers' during the war and that there was a project of a "one piece wing"
with a "rotary top" capable of vertical takeoff at high speed. He says the tests caused many casualties, and
that was the end. He concludes by suggesting that the much reported flying saucers are either a Russian
or American version of this craft, or a figment of the imagination.

The fake footage by Mikel Conrad, purported to show an Nazi saucer taking off, a forgery produced in
1954.

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"Le matin des magiciens", by French writers Pauwels and Bergier, 1960. The authors speculate on a secret
science of the Nazi, with mysterious antigravity forces generated by "vases" containing mercury, Tibetan
Nazi connections, the Thule society, the magic power of "Vril" etc.

It created a true sociological phenomenon in France, a vogue for mysteries: lost worlds, weird stories,
parallel history, occultism... Few flying saucers, because Bergier did not "believe in" flying saucers.

Van Helsing, whose pseudonym is inspired by that of a character of "Dracula" and whose real name is Jan
Udo Holey defends the thesis of the Nazi saucers through his racist book "Le livre jaune N.5" which
propagates anti-semitic lies, such as the infamous "protocol of the sages of Sion". It is him who made the
"blueprints" of "Haunebu" saucers reproduced in illustration of Jean-Pierre Troadec's article in "Top Secret".

The book was condemned in Switzerland and Germany for infringement to the laws against racism,
(Judgment of the Helvetic Commission Against the Racism of January 22, 1998) but this does not deter
Jean-Pierre Troadec and the editors of "Top Secret", who do not seem to know all this, and in any case,
does not say word of it. Why bother about the bottle if you get drunk with the liquid!

According to Van Helsing, Haunebu 3 flies at 40.000 km/h with eight week of autonomy while carrying 32
people, and accomplishes space flights. He tells that the Nazis obtained the technology of the flying
saucers from aliens that came from Aldebaran. Van Helsing divides humanity into superhumanity, ie the
Nazi, and undermen, the others, and in the same way, he tells that on Aldebaran, there is a race of
superior beings and a race of inferior beings that serve as slaves etc.

"Man-made UFOs, 50 years of suppression", book by Renato Vesco and David Childress, 1971. Allots the
"classics" of ufology, like the UFOs of Washington DC in 1952 or the Lubbock lights, Texas, in 1951, to
"Nazi saucers" without bringing the least convincing item of information. These authors tell twaddle on
Nazi saucers and produce the same forged blue prints by Van Helsing and shown by Jean-Pierre Troadec.

Proponents of Nazi flying saucers make of Renato Vesco one of their champions, but there again, all is
distorted by his fans. Although he was born in 1924, he allegedly worked with secret projects for the Nazis
during World War II and he was claimed to be a "senior" of Association Italian of Aeronautics since 1943,
and even Chief of the technical services of the Italian Air Forces, despite him being 15 to 19 years old then!
Actually, he really was a young aeronautical engineer, but never worked on anything like a Nazi flying
saucer, and never claimed that. He was interested in the flying saucers after the observation of Arnold, did
not believe that the saucers are extraterrestrial. He published a few articles in the 1950's expressing the
belief that flying saucers are not extraterrestrial but man-made. He wrote a book in 1956 which was
published in 1968. While he is presented as supporting Nazi saucers theories, he writes that the stories of
Schriever are inventions and that Vril and Haunebu never existed. All he said, without evidence, was that
the foo-fighters must have been Nazi weapons and the flying saucers are the Avrocar. His first book was
later included within David Childress texts. The explanation he gives on the so-called "Feuerball" automatic
radio-controlled armored flying discs that he says the Americans called foo-fighters is such an insult to
intelligence that anyone sensible should wonder if he really has anything to do with aeronautics at all.

In his second book, Vesco claims that the British landed on the moon in 1951 and on Mars in 1954 using
secret Nazi technology! (Nazi saucer fans general hush this down because they don't want you to discover
that the "aviation expert" Vesco was just another lunatic).

Of course there is not one shred of evidence for the Nazi saucer lore in any of his books.

Henry Durrant, French journalist writing under this pseudonym, author of several UFO books, tells a story
of some sort of "project Blue Book" Nazi equivalent, "Sonderbüro 13". When later ufologist Thierry Pindivic
questioned him on this matter and asked for his sources, Durrant acknowledged to have invented all the
story with an aim "of testing the gullibility" of his readers. In 2004, a known French ufologist still tells in his
conferences this "Sonderbüro 13" fable. The fable seems to leave vague traces in the Cometa report that
offhandedly evokes a "commission created in Berlin" by the Nazis to study the foo-fighters sightings.

"Closed Encounters of the Kugelblitz Kind", book by Vladimir Terziski, 1993, who said he is the "President,
American Academy of Dissident Sciences" and produces academic scientific titles. Another author who
embroiders entirely new stories of Nazi saucers while specifying that they are of "Reptilians"
extraterrestrial origin, Reptilians who brought to the Nazis the secrets of antigravitation in 1929 etc.

It is him who invents the so-called "Andromeda wingless plane" talked about by Jean-Jacques Troadec, but
in this book it is not of a wingless plane invented by the Nazis, but of a true space station built by the
Zeppelin factories with the assistance of the aliens. Terziski tells that the Germans explored the Moon in
1942 and built bases there, space traveling in Miethe, Schriever, Vril, and Haunebu flying saucers that are
10 floors high according to him. Terziski adds that the Nazis landed on Mars in May 1945, a "fact" that
Jean-Pierre Troadec is unaware or does not mention.

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"The Secret of the 3rd Reich", pseudo-documentary video by Vladimir Terziski, defends the thesis of Nazi
saucers and is quoted by other authors like Icke and van Helsing as "providing proof".

"The Black Sun", book by Peter Moon, 1997. Whimsical mix of Montauk project, Nazi saucers, Tibetan
"black magic" cooked together. A whole book of inventions and fallacious logic.

"The Hunt for the Zero Point", book by Nick Cook, 2003. From "confidences" by some dubious characters
telling him pure fabrications, and from the untrue literature on this topic, Cook, a writer of the Jane's
Defence Weekly magazine, claims that the Nazis found a method of propulsion by cancellation of the
gravitation using the quantum vacuum energy, that they built flying saucers, used MHD etc, but that it
does not explain all UFO reports. As Cook does not have an embryo of proof or serious lead to justify
these fantasies, he wants us to believe that they are true by claiming that the proof is missing because
they were destroyed and people in the knowing were assassinated..

"Le plus grand secret ", Volume 1, book by David Icke, 2001.

David Icke, author of best-sellers, mixes all that can be mixed together, from the death of princess Diana
to stories of evil corporations and esoteric groups, tells that the Queen of England is a "reptilian alien" and
of course that Nazis fly in saucers.

"Liquid Conspiracy", book by George Piccard, 1999, rehashes Nazi saucers stories and shows fake
photographs. There again you get a cocktail of the assassination of JFK, Marylin Monroe, the Short Greys,
mind control, Roswell, reptilian aliens, Piccard ensures that "all is linked".

"Dossier Omega", "Nazi File", by "Branton". Branton, allegedly an alien abductee, claims in articles after
articles on the Internet that the deportees of the Buchenwald concentration camp were obliged to build
Nazi flying saucers, and were then sent in the Antarctic to build Nazi secret bases there, as of course the
Earth is hollow and you can get inside through holes at the poles.

"Hitler's Flying Saucers - A Guide to German Flying Discs of the Second World War", by Henry Stevens;
book and video, "The myths of the Nazi Saucers", and the claim that UFOs are Nazi saucers.

"Les secret des OVNIS du 3e Reich", video by James Hurtak, Royal GmbH Atlantis-Film. James Hurtak
claims he is a "consultant in advanced technologies" and "close to the CIA", claims to have seen secret
documents of the CIA, tells that antique Egyptians were in contact with the aliens, just like the Nazis, that
the foo-fighters are interplanetary Nazi flying saucers and that the Americans created the "myth of aliens"
to cover-up the fact that the Nazi are at the conquest of the galaxy with their flying saucers.

"Flugzeugprofile", magazine,
#23, show plans of "BMW
prototypes" and Messerschmitt
prototypes. Questioned on the
source of these documents, the
magazine said that they came
from Spain provided by a
certain Miranda and a certain
Mercado and they have nothing
more to say. The shown plans
are "Flügelrad 1 V1" and the
AS-6V1 plane that hasn't
anything to do with flying
saucers and are only ordinary
planes with circular wing of the
Cesna 01 Bird Dog type. The
magazine also shows
photographs of foo fighters
claiming that they are craft built
by Zeppelin and Messerschmitt.

"The Zundeliste", of Ernst

Zündel. Zündel is a revisionist
who denies the holocaust and
wrote several books telling that
the Nazis flew flying saucers, such as "UFO: secret Nazi weapons", "The CIA-KGB UFO cover-up".

On his website, he announced an "expedition" to discover the "secret bases" of the Nazi in the Antarctic,
asking each participant to first forwarding a payment of 10.000$. He writes that the UFOs are Nazi craft,
that the Earth is hollow, and that ufologists are "charlatans who tell stories of little green men."

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Jean-Claude Monnet, Frenchman who declares himself heir of Hitler, ensures that the Nazi built the "Vril"
flying saucer. He says he is the "Commander of the extraterrestrial space forces", and organized several
neo-Nazi groups, the "Viking party of France", "U-Xul Club", "The Club of the Supermen", he predicted the
apocalypse for 1999 etc. (J. Vernette, Dictionnaire des groupes religieux aujourd’hu)

Joscelyn Goodwin, an academic researcher, tells in "Arktos", 1996, stories of Nazi flying saucers,secret
Nazi bases in the Antarctic and shift of the poles. Though the author does not consider these myths as
anything else than myths, extracts of the material he published are quoted by Nazi saucer believers.

Tim Mathews wrote article after article to claim that UFOs are not extraterrestrial but are secret craft of the
Nazis and American. As he does not have any proof, being satisfied to repeat the story of Schriever, he
resorts like Jean-Pierre Troadec to the perverted rhetoric that those who do not agree with him would
disagree only because of emotional horror for Nazism.

"Das Geheimnis der deutschen Flugscheiben", book by Klaus-Peter Rothkugel, 2002. Tells that UFOs are
Nazi saucers and that governments spread misinformation to hide this by claiming that UFOs are
extraterrestrial.

In 2003, Ufologist Thierry Garnier tells the same nonsense as Jean-Pierre Troadec, with a conclusion which
is worth its loads of swastikas: "all legends have a background of truth. That of the V-7 does not make
exception. We insist that this is only a working hypothesis on which everyone must think without
prejudice." He tells that it was a saucer Nazi that crashed in Roswell and that the "Aurora plane-spy could
be another craft resulting from German/Non-human technologies". He fustigates "debunkers of any kind"
who "leave in the drawers" the Nazi saucers, and announces that these "debunkers" will "have only their
eyes left to cry the day when dear Uncle Sam will come to invade Europe preceded by flying machines that
they thought never existed." For him, Nazism is: "the neo-Nazi government of GW Bush", resulting from
"an international maffia [sic], which fomented World War I and II by creating Nazism from scratch."

"www.naziufos.com", a website by ultraskeptic Maurizio Verga, with a subscription-only section that offers
newsclipping and articles. The website is sometimes given as "reference" to an "aviation expert's website
that supports the view that Nazi saucers existed. But in reality, Maurizio Verga supports that Nazi saucers
are just a myth.

On the Internet: it is easy use a search engine such as Google and to make a query using keywords such
as "Haunebu" to realize that there are nearly 65.000 results, which shows the inanity of the claim by
Jean-Pierre Troadec that Nazi saucers thesis "are ignored." The Wikipedia "free encyclopedia" on the web,
for example, presents these stories, although with some "precautions".

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