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Joshua Huizar

9/28/18

Cultures and Ideas 1

The Just State

What does it mean to be just, to have a just state? Plato explains being just as “doing

one’s own business, and not being a busybody”, going along with the “one person-one craft”

idea. And for there to be a just state, the guardians and auxiliaries (upper class) must be

separated from the common craftspeople (lower class), as the act of the separation is justice. If

the two classes come together, the empire would collapse, which is why it would be important to

keep them separated. The guardians and auxiliaries care about power and honor, while

craftspeople care about commerce, trade, and self-interest. Furthermore, the upper class would

not have a family, as that would lead to possessiveness and selfishness, which make people

unjust. Instead they would have some way to procreate without forming personal attachments.

The lower class would be unaffected by this however. The state would be a hierarchy as Plato

believes it is tied to justice, but the upper class would be equal to prevent the unjustness that

comes from selfishness. In this hierarchy, “one person-one craft” doesn’t just mean sticking to

the best job one is suited for, but also sticking in one’s hierarchical class. And since the upper

class would be educated to become philosophers, the just state would have a philosopher king or

queen to lead the state and help everyone become just.

Despite this, Plato’s just state would not be that just, according to his own definition of

justice. One of major points is that he insists that justice would happen in a hierarchical society.

However, he says that in the upper class, everyone must be equals. While it is true that inside of
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the upper class they would be more equal compared to the lower class, due to the nature of a

hierarchy certain people would have more power in the upper class, voiding the equality Plato

believes is necessary in a just upper class. Furthermore, letting the lower class have a family but

not the upper would not be just after some time. It goes against human nature to not want a

family and not be emotionally attached to anyone, which would be made more difficult after

seeing the lower class people have families.

Plato also argues that the upper class would have no interest in economic domination due

to it being a selfish desire, but like most of his points, this requires every single person in the

upper class to act justly all the time. This assumes that with a proper education anyone could

become a philosopher and learn to be just all the time. But eventually, one of those in power

would want more power, disrupting the equality of the upper class and making the state unjust.

It’s human nature to want to appeal to those baser desires, but it is not reasonable to assume that

every person would learn to completely control them. Greed and lust are powerful desires that

would surely overcome some people and make them act unjustly. They may value honor and

virtue, but other desires could get in to control their actions.

Furthermore, would the classes have to be physically separated so they rarely interact?

Assuming that the higher class acted justly, there is no guarantee that the lower class would be

content to stay where they are. For Plato being in the lower class makes one unjust due to the

selfish desires that are prevalent there. So if they have those selfish desires, it would be natural

for some of them to want power and honor. This would lead to them approaching the upper class,

and thus collapsing the empire.

His idea for there to be a philosopher king doesn’t work either. They may be wise and

just, but they may not have the qualities needed to run and control a city. They would need
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advisers, but if they are also from the upper class, then they may also not know how to deal with

concerns of the lower class. So, the ruler would need to have advisers from the lower class, but

because they are unjust, then they might not make the just decision, and instead appeal to their

base desires. So then would they have to be educated so they become just? But that would then

introduce them into the upper class, and if they can do it, then the rest of the lower class would

be able to as well. So then there would be no more classes or hierarchy, everyone would have to

be equal, and the just state would look more like the City of Pigs.

The City of Pigs concept represents a state that is more just. There is still one person-one

craft, but everyone is an equal and there are no classes. There is no single ruler, since everyone is

equal, so there is an assembly or some other form of democratic government where everyone

contributes, which would also include women now that they are equal to men.

While there are some arguments for Plato’s state being just, they do not hold up very

well. One could argue that due to the education people in the upper class receive, they would

know what is just and continue to do the just thing. But that requires more than just schooling, it

requires determination and a want to do the just thing. And by giving only the upper classes an

education, it promotes inequality, which is unjust. Everyone should be equal, even those in the

lower class. And if there must be a hierarchy because the lower class is unable to be just, then it

was never a just state in the first place. Everyone has to be just for it to be a just state, so it

requires everyone to be equal. The state can’t be separated into those that are just and those that

are not, with different conditions for each of them. This would only lead to the lower class

wanting power, approaching the upper class and thus collapsing the empire, as that is what Plato

believes would happen if the classes join together. His concept of the just state can’t exist
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because it would either be unjust, or for it to be just the concept would have to change into

something resembling the City of Pigs.

Note: My version of Six Great Dialogues is online and doesn’t include page numbers, so I was

unable to put the page numbers for my citations.

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Works Cited

Plato. Six Great Dialogues. Dover Publications , 20120404. [Yuzu].

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In his concept of justice, Plato states that those in power are not interested in economic

domination. But why, wouldn’t that just give them more power?

Why wouldn’t people in the upper class want a family, especially after seeing them in the lower

class?

If everyone must be just, and families create unjustness, then why are they allowed in the lower

class? If only the lower class is unjust, then it wouldn’t be a just state.