What is Technical Safety and how it relates to other industrial safety concepts such as: | LinkedIn Page 1 of 6

Account Type: Basic Sarfraz Ali Add Connections

Home Profile Contacts Groups Jobs Inbox 32 Companies News More Groups Search...

ADEPP Technical Safety

Discussions Promotions Jobs Search More... | Group rules

Share Discussion
Sarfraz, like what you see here? Join Group

What is Technical Safety and how it relates to other industrial safety concepts
such as:
Occupational safety and health Latest Updates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_safety_and_health

Fabienne Construction site safety

Unfollow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_site_safety

Process safety
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_Safety

One of the definitions of Technical Safety is as follows:

____________________________________________________________________
Technical Safety Requirements - TSRs [Energy] Law & Legal Definition
According to 10 CFR 830.3 (a) [Title 10 Energy; Chapter III Department of Energy; Part 830
Nuclear Safety Management], Technical Safety Requirements (TSRs) means “the limits,
controls, and related actions that establish the specific parameters and requisite actions for the
safe operation of a nuclear facility and include, as appropriate for the work and the hazards
identified in the documented safety analysis for the facility: Safety limits, operating limits,
surveillance requirements, administrative and management controls, use and application
provisions, and design features, as well as a bases appendix.”
_____________________________________________________________________
How do you define and implement Technical Safety in your day to day jobs?
http://www.eurosafe-forum.org/files/TSO/TSO%20definition%2020081103.pdf
7 days ago

Like Comment Follow Flag More

Asif Khan, Muhammad Aftab Khan and 1 other like this

Ads by LinkedIn Members
14 comments
Recycling Machinery
We buy and sell scrap processing and
Fabienne Salimi • This discussion is also posted to: recycling machinery worldwide.

ADEPP Academy Learn More »

http://lnkd.in/SNJu-7
Fabienne Social Recruiting
Unfollow Zirak associates
http://lnkd.in/VH_hMW Social Recruiting: Post Jobs, Find
Candidates, Extend Your Reach. Free!
CIS HSE& Quality
http://lnkd.in/_hRsza Learn More »

Process Safety Management (1000+)

http://lnkd.in/6cN5qn
Manager's Choice
EHSQ Elite [#1 IN SAFETY]
http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
view=&gid=113464&type=member&item=84466628&qid=feee6de6-e351-448f-bda8-
6fc314e1444f&goback=.gmp_113464

Safety Case Workers

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem? Top Influencers This Week
view=&gid=1130667&type=member&item=84466659&qid=c8fa10ee-1f09-4e3e-a2f9-
76f34dc8cdba&goback=.gmp_1130667

TapRooT® Root Cause Analysis Users and Friends

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
view=&gid=2164007&type=member&item=84466750&qid=fbfc0a86-f3a3-4180-9389-
cb83b9408655&goback=.gmp_2164007

ANSI - American National Standards Institute

http://lnkd.in/4UDTVw

Offshore Construction
http://lnkd.in/YQVgrm

Construction SHEQ (UK)

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
view=&gid=2296237&type=member&item=84466701&qid=5b264083-e7ad-43e6-9a38-
0c496fca841a&goback=.gmp_2296237

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/What-is-Technical-Safety-how-1821535.S.84466298 17/12/2011
What is Technical Safety and how it relates to other industrial safety concepts such as: | LinkedIn Page 2 of 6

American Society of Safety Engineers (ASSE)

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
view=&gid=85824&type=member&item=84466688&qid=683494f4-80be-4fc7-b6de-
c5951e227e11&goback=.gmp_85824
Group Statistics
AIChE Director
http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
Manager
view=&gid=109329&type=member&item=84466694&qid=367e9412-003d-4b61-9ebd-
4c3c27984365&goback=.gmp_109329 CH ECK O U T Entry

IN SIG H TFU L
The Process Engineer MEMBERS
http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem? STATISTICS
view=&gid=961347&type=member&item=84466693&qid=1a892492-f603-4f3c-98fe-
249a12f75c6d&goback=.gmp_961347
ON THIS GROUP
3,759
BG Society
http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem? View Group Statistics »
view=&gid=760007&type=member&item=84466658&qid=a91a6334-9313-4f06-af91-
e292cf63eb9b&goback=.gmp_760007

BP PLC
http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
view=&gid=141091&type=member&item=84466684&qid=c1a7092c-0a6f-4757-be47-
0a21595b84ae&goback=.gmp_141091

Design engineer, Designers(offshore/onshore)

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
view=&gid=913977&type=member&item=84466686&qid=fb8e2555-900e-4ab5-a4aa-
f458a9a0b59b&goback=.gmp_913977

EPC Consultants Professionals

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?
view=&gid=59422&type=member&item=84466702&qid=adb395ec-8e34-4254-a630-
8001e05fc006&goback=.gmp_59422
7 days ago • Like • Flag as inappropriate

Gary Reznicek • Ms. Salimi, I am not clear on your question. The Law(s) , are the basis
for all of this Business Process you call "safety" . I would even suggest you do away with
using the word "safety" , and especially trying to separate "safety " from the studied
professional, scientific processes of running an enterprise.
Follow Gary 6 days ago • Like

Fabienne Salimi • Dear Gary,

Question how we can relate and implement all these regulations in consistent manner?

Fabienne
How Process Safety/Technical Safety can contribute in Occupational Safety and
Unfollow Construction safety to ensure a life cycle approach?

Kindest regards,
Fabienne
6 days ago • Like

Sumit Bhat • Dear fabienne,

The concept of process safety helps if all the safety studies are done at design phase
itself. We come up with certain recommendations which helps while construction phase.
Follow Sumit
If you are taking about construction safety, it is to be taken care at the stage of
construction (its an practical approach, which safety officer has to take care while
construction).

All the studies which you have mentioned are different and are done as per different
guidelines.
6 days ago • Like

Andy Baker • My simple definitions would be (open to discussion which I welcome);

1) Technical safety is concerned with the engineering and design of Safety to ALARP
using a variety of methods (Studies, hazardous area drawings, HAZOP, HAZID, bow tie,
statistical data, interpreting vendor data etc) to give input to other disciplines to ensure
Follow Andy
that the designs meet national regulations. Includes process safety.
2) Occupational H&S is focused on the individuals and I personally think requires a
different skill set in terms of worker involvement, health and safety management systems,
behavioural aspects etc focus on leading and lagging indicators - I suppose this is when
an asset/office is in existence and is focused on improvement and compliance. It does
have technical elements (Occupational Hygienist etc) but is different from Tech/Process
Safety.

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/What-is-Technical-Safety-how-1821535.S.84466298 17/12/2011
What is Technical Safety and how it relates to other industrial safety concepts such as: | LinkedIn Page 3 of 6

3) Construction site safety is again another skill set and brings its own challenges - it
would include elements of occ health but also would need knowledge of CDM and the
challenge of temporary working sites, temporary works etc. It is SMS based but relies on
coaching skills as well as compliance with site rules etc.

Whilst they all inter-relate it is unusual to find an individual who can undertake all the skill
sets hence why it is easier to separate them out into separate functions. I would not
expect to see a project safety engineer giving project safety inductions or undertaking
audits of a site (Construction H&S). Neither would I expect a project safety engineer to
undertake risk assessments of the office he/she is working in or deal with Occ health
issues (Occ H&S).

Not published definitions but may be opens up the debate?

4 days ago • Like

Fabienne Salimi • Dear Andy,

Technical Safety is not limited to design phase. It is also present during operation when
one of the followings is required:
Fabienne
Unfollow (1) Optimisation of process conditions and procedures

(2) Modifications including like for like replacement, repair and maintenance,
implementation of improvements and/or new technologies, etc.

During operation the life cycle of these brown field projects is shorter but they undergo full
engineering phases including conceptual, FEED and EPC.

For Greenfield projects the life cycle of project is much longer and designers may not feel
how they implement the occupational and contraction safety in their design. This is exact
reason for I opened this discussion.

I would not expect to see a project safety engineer perform the construction site audit or
his/her office occupational safety but I do expect that they consider effect of their design
on construction and human factors during operation and maintenance and optimise their
design accordingly.

We do that systematically by inviting the representatives of operation and maintenance in

HAZOP, HAZID, ... but is it sufficient?

Please see also:

Construction design and management (CDM)

http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/cdm.htm

The Offshore Installations and Wells (Design and Construction, etc.) Regulations 1996
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/913/contents/made

Human factors: Permit to work systems

http://www.hse.gov.uk/humanfactors/topics/ptw.htm
4 days ago • Like 1

Junjie Shi • Dear Fabienne, I would like to talk the difference between them.
Technical safety focus on technology, safety design play a key role during technical using
life cycle, HAZOP, HAZID…..are just tools to check. Generally speaking, technical safety
should be noted in design materials, operation and waste should refer to design and
Follow Junjie
comply with rules.
Occupational Safety and Health is a general safety management to make people and
machines safe. There are also some tools such as international & national laws and
regulations (Iso18001), Safety assessment, PPE, work permission system, firefighting,
Tool box meeting, etc. to help safety management, Technical Safety, Construction site
safety are included in Occupational Safety and Health if the company has related safety
problems.
Construction site safety is also fields’ safety management, focusing on people’s safety
during building work and the construction body’s safe.
Technical safety is more similar with process safety, I think the former is point but latter is
the whole process.
4 days ago • Like

Fabienne Salimi • Thanks Junjie.

Process safety management is similar to HSEMS (HSE Management System) in Europe.

Fabienne
PROCESS SAFETY MANAGEMENT (PSM) - OSHA 29 CFR 1910.119
Unfollow http://www.sms-ink.com/services_regulatory_psm.html

Guidelines for the Development and Application of Health, Safety and Environmental
Management Systems
http://www.ogp.org.uk/pubs/210.pdf

Technical Safety is a part of HSEMS and covers the design safety with all disciplines.

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/What-is-Technical-Safety-how-1821535.S.84466298 17/12/2011
What is Technical Safety and how it relates to other industrial safety concepts such as: | LinkedIn Page 4 of 6

Norsok- Technical Safety Standard

http://www.standard.no/PageFiles/1052/S-001.pdf

Human factors and constructability are considered in design through either the dedicated
activities such as:

(1) Working environment requirement which defines the required levels of light, air
conditioning, noise, etc.

(2) 3D model review at 30%, 60% and 90% of design in which constructability,
maintainability and accessibility shall be reviewed and optimised.

(3) Alarm management

(4) etc.

During the brainstorming risk assessment sessions such as HAZOP, HAZID, etc. we may
consider the procedures, permit to work as safeguards. In these cases designer should be
proactive and examine the procedures and PTW to understand how much credit can be
taken from them.

Process Safety management or HSEMS call for a life cycle approach. Therefore:

(1) Designers shall be aware of Occupational and Construction Safety and optimise their
design accordingly

(2) Operators and construction teams shall be aware of design rationales and limitations
and optimise their procedures accordingly.

Kindest regards,
Fabienne
4 days ago • Like

Junjie Shi • learn a lot, thanks, Fabienne.

3 days ago • Like

Follow Junjie

Andy Baker • Not sure I understand your response - I didn't say Tech safety was limited
to the design phase of a job but was concerned with design (at whatever asset stage) - i.e.
tech safety are involved at other stages of the asset life but this is where the original or
intended design is modified or changed?
Follow Andy
"Technical Safety is not limited to design phase (Its design - not limited to design phase of
project). It is also present during operation when one of the followings is required:

(1) Optimisation of process conditions and procedures - (Is this not looking at re-designing
for optimisation? Revisiting the design and improving it based on operating and
performance knowledge whilst not impacting safety design features)

(2) Modifications including like for like replacement, repair and maintenance,
implementation of improvements and/or new technologies, etc. (Why would Technical
safety be involved in like for like replacement? Implementation of improvements or new
technologies are revisiting the existing design and improving?)

During operation the life cycle of these brown field projects is shorter but they undergo full
engineering phases including conceptual, FEED and EPC. (I agree that Tech safety are
involved with brownfield management of change processes but are concerned with design
changes to the existing design and safe systems?)

For Greenfield projects the life cycle of project is much longer and designers may not feel
how they implement the occupational and contraction safety in their design. This is exact
reason for I opened this discussion. (If this is the case I misunderstood your original
question - if you are trying to understand how to consider occupational and construction
issues in your design that is another question from the one you posted)

I would not expect to see a project safety engineer perform the construction site audit or
his/her office occupational safety but I do expect that they consider effect of their design
on construction and human factors during operation and maintenance and optimise their
design accordingly. (Completely agree - this a fundamental principle - design the risks out
and where you cant reduce to ALARP and communicate the risks for control in
construction and operation - this is also a fundamental principle of CDM)

We do that systematically by inviting the representatives of operation and maintenance in

HAZOP, HAZID, ... but is it sufficient? (I don't think it is necessarily sufficient as HAZOP
does not necessarily consider constructibility risks - its important designers have
understanding of the implications of what they are designing)

Hope I made my response a bit clearer

2 days ago • Like

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/What-is-Technical-Safety-how-1821535.S.84466298 17/12/2011
What is Technical Safety and how it relates to other industrial safety concepts such as: | LinkedIn Page 5 of 6

Don Jeter P.E. • I am a Licensed Chem. Engineer and have training and experience with
implementation of Process Safety Management (OSHA 1910.119). A cornerstone for PSM
is hazards assessment, and can be done via several techniques (What-IF , HazOp,
FMEA, etc.). Essentially this is a fairly detailed examination of new or existing installations
Follow Don
(usually from a P&ID perspective) with the intent of anticipating (uncovering / sometimes
relearning) safety issues, as well as evaluating previous safety "near misses" and
problems, so as to put them into perspective and identify possible mitigation, corrective or
alternative techniques.

I personally believe the hazards assessment techniques (in general) are one
implementation of technical safety. From my experience, once a safety situation / scenario
is understood and appreciated both by management and the working folks, half of the
problem has been solved. Implementation of practical training / equipment modifications
etc. are relatively straight forward.

The complete PSM system is a multi-part program with the ongoing objective of
continuous safety improvement. For me this translates, to identification of hazards, then
prioritizing the one that are most significant and finally addressing their mitigation and / or
resolution. Over time (in - theory) the most significant issues are reduced, or eliminated,
and the next layer of concerns rise to the top to be addressed thus a continuing
improvement in safety.

Again, in my opinion, the ultimate key to safety improvement, is better communication and
working relationships between management and the direct working folks.

I hope this helps.

Don Jeter P.E.

2 days ago • Like

Fabienne Salimi • I have tendency to think that process safety in USA or Technical Safety
in Europe are focus on minimisation of "Major accidents" during "Life Cycle" of
project/plant.

Fabienne
Preventing catastrophic events in construction
Unfollow http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr834.pdf

Occupational Safety or HSE is focus on protection of the individauls and/or working

groups with less than 5 people (some comapnies reduce it to 3 people).
1 day ago • Like

Carrillo Antoine • Fabienne, you need to apply technical safety for occupational Safety or
HSE.
I do not see the point in comparing these two topics.
What you can compare is between technical safety and behaviour management safety or
Follow Carrillo
organisational safety or humanistic safety etc..
Occupational Health and safety is all to do with hygiène, health, ergonomics, stress
management etc..
Technical safety is at the words mean, anything that is technical to control and improve
safety.
For occupational safety management you need to use technical safety like for instance
good ventilation systems, good lifting equipements etc...
I hope this will help to clarify better.
1 day ago • Like

Fabienne Salimi • You are right Antoine.

I posted this discussion because it is not always the case. Especially for Brownfield
developments very often implementation team cannot understand why technical safety is
Fabienne
present and bother them!
Unfollow 1 day ago • Like

Add a comment...

Send me an email for each new comment. Add Comment

Ads by LinkedIn Members

Recycling Machinery Social Recruiting
We buy and sell scrap processing and Social Recruiting: Post Jobs, Find
recycling machinery worldwide. Candidates, Extend Your Reach. Free!

Help Center About Blog Careers Advertising Recruiting Solutions Tools Mobile Developers Publishers Language Upgrade Your Account

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/What-is-Technical-Safety-how-1821535.S.84466298 17/12/2011