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2,975
May 5, 2015
Alaska
GoldieLocks said: ↑
Most churches I visit barely have a properly tuned acoustic. And the
black fender Strat package (being used) still has the New Christmas wrapping
covering part of it.
My church doesn't strictly fit the premise of this post either. But they
are out there.
615
Feb 2, 2009
Los Angeles
JuneauMike said: ↑
My church doesn't strictly fit the premise of this post either. But
they are out there.
I don't fit the premise but if I was a lottery winner I would have my best
with me on Sunday. And with enough spare cash all of us will see "boutique". As it
was I was on the then Carvin site trying to build my dream when I found my present
number 1 used at Sam Ash for a third of the projected Carvin price and stopped the
search and dream guitar build.
However if any musician comes in they don't look at mine with envious eyes
it is just gear that works for me
111
Poquoson Va.
On the TDPRI main page was a post about Do you modify guitars or leave them
as is? Now, I am one who does. Amps too. Looking for better sound.That's. I use
this equipment at church with praise team. There are members who would not spend a
dime on improving there stuff, not even a clip on tuner, or set of strings till one
breaks..and these people have the means to improve their rig if they wanted. You
find all kinds in church service. Some just wanna be up front and seen. I have
found if you attend a few services you will find out who wants to worship and who
wants to show off, regardless of equipment or clothing.
Age:
60
1,097
Dec 3, 2012
Birmingham Alabama
One of the main reasons I avoid most Worship guitar sites is exactly what
you are speaking of.
It's also one of the reasons I hang around HERE so much because most of
that ain't here!
On the high end gear there are a lot of folk like myself who have been on
the road in our younger days but now use our tallents playing in Church. Been
playing for 45 or so years and in that time you do accumulate some "stuff" LOL.
That said this arrogance and gear snobbery I see in many of the Worship
circles bothers me a LOT!
Heck I know guys who can take a MIM Strat and cheap SS Peavey Bandit and
wipe the floor with 98% of the so called guitar heroes in modern worship even with
them running all the boutique gear!
Having nice gear is cool as long as the GEAR doesn't have YOU!!
Age:
60
1,097
Dec 3, 2012
Birmingham Alabama
CapnCrunch said: ↑
Just read the article. Spent quite a number of years playing in a Church
that sat 10,000 and ran 5000 or so on a normal Sunday morning. The band ROCKED and
we had our own voice. We were the exception to that rule in the article but the
core of that assessment is dead on!
WAY to many rock star performers today doing Sunday morning music in big
Churches and not nearly enough real worship leaders!
The article also has a very valid point in why with the changes in
Christian music and most all the Christian labels now being owned by secular
companies like Sony.
Frankly I almost never listen to mainstream modern Worship stuff anymore
because it has lost it's heart and soul. It's become more about sales and the $
than a real hunger for HIS presence.
What excites me is stuff from IHOP, CFNI Rick Pino Jason Upton Misty
Edwards ect not the pop artist of the week.
Money and fame came in and worship became secondary IMO over the last 15
years or so.
Also as an old White metal hair band player I'm REALLY digging the new
Christian Power Metal stuff i am hearing. Has a LOT more heart meat and reality
than most of the big $ pop drivel I hear called worship. I want to KNOW what they
are singing about and how it affects ME or the world around us not having to wonder
if the song is to the Lord or a significant "other"!
Give me lyric's like THIS song written by Matt Smith of Theocracy!
111
Poquoson Va.
You are right Ascension, If you play long enough ..you will acquire lots of
stuff. To someone looking in on a forum..it may appear that way..like we show off
rigs. The stuff I have represents many years of playing.. Not showing off, just a
lifetime of playing and improving my rig as I could. It has also allowed me to give
back to younger players some of what I learned,and what I had extra. I always knew
that a younger generation must be raised to lead worship.
Age:
60
1,097
Dec 3, 2012
Birmingham Alabama
Boltneck said: ↑
You are right Ascension, If you play long enough ..you will acquire
lots of stuff. To someone looking in on a forum..it may appear that way..like we
show off rigs. The stuff I have represents many years of playing.. Not showing off,
just a lifetime of playing and improving my rig as I could. It has also allowed me
to give back to younger players some of what I learned,and what I had extra. I
always knew that a younger generation must be raised to lead worship.
Agree with every thing you have said here. Have given so much stuff away
over the years I doubt I could remember and count it all. Now stuff just seems to
find ME ( funny how that happens ain't it LOL!)
In particular you are dead on that a younger generation must be raised up
and trained in the art of Worship. Not to perform but in the ART of Worship which
is not the same thing. I have been fortunate myself to have had a few mentors and
even to share the stage with a couple. Kent Henry is one in particular. Ol dog like
to wore my fingers off here pushing me at Cathedral ( I'm the "Richard" he tells to
"light It UP" here then kept turning round scat singing and expecting me to respond
back on guitar LOL! http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=4142009 ) but most do not.
That is something that has been a pressing burden/goal for myself for a few years
now. Just turned 59 and have to wonder how much longer I can do this at this level.
Raising up a new generation of Worship warriors was one of the main stated mission
goals of the Church I was in that is now in limbo. We MUST do this or will loose a
generation!
Age:
60
1,097
Dec 3, 2012
Birmingham Alabama
One thing is if we are truly "called" to worship we must understand who and
what we are. What we are NOT is simply a performer and a rock star but one who is
charged with sharing a "gift" given to us by our creator to others.
Matt Smith hit it out of the park with his lyrics in this song from
Theocracy on the Gift Of Music.
Age:
47
299
USA
Good food for thought. I started acoustic guitar 27 years ago because I
wanted to worship with music on guitar. I have always loved music and been easily
moved by music, but the idea of playing in front of people horrified me. Eventually
I dipped my toes into the waters of leading for small groups and developed a bit
from there. I have always thought my job was to set my mind's attention and heart's
affection on God. And then bring others in my wake. I've been working on electric
for the last year or so because I love the voice that the electric can bring to the
song. I have put together a decent rig (which includes a Timmy), but I would be
disappointed if people noticed my rig and not the God I was pointing to. Excellence
is not the ultimate end of music, worship or other.
I agree with one of the criticisms in the article about certain worship
songs being keyed and/or arranged beyond the vocal range of mere mortals. I will
give a pass to a good high tenor if he saves the high stuff for a big chorus or
something. But let's keep most of the song in a more reasonable range.
Age:
48
382
Alabaster, AL
I recently got a Strymon Lex pedal after watching the "That Pedal Show"
episode about Leslie simulators. It is such a fantastic sound and so much fun to
use. However, I find myself intentionally using it sparingly because I don't want
it to be a distraction. After using it this morning, I talked to the Worship leader
about it and asked if it was too much, or a distraction.
111
Poquoson Va.
We are talking gear right? Compare with whats around you at church. Our
church has a baby grand Steinway and an organ that requires out of state techs to
repair. A sound system which also requires a tech to teach as well as maintain.
Many thousands of dollars were spent for these things..cause some people at the
church wanted the best that they could get. Here we are now talking about being
pretentious over what? A >$5000 rig? ( guitar,amps pedals ) Now my church is medium
sized and if yours isn't that big or capable of that budget..Please Don't Be
Offended! I'm just saying. I have never in my life heard 1 person say "they are
showing off their Steinway, they could've bought a Baldwin and saved a fortune,
Sooo pretentious" So why do guitarist do this?
1,065
Boltneck said: ↑
We are talking gear right? Compare with whats around you at church. Our
church has a baby grand Steinway and an organ that requires out of state techs to
repair. A sound system which also requires a tech to teach as well as maintain.
Many thousands of dollars were spent for these things..cause some people at the
church wanted the best that they could get. Here we are now talking about being
pretentious over what? A >$5000 rig? ( guitar,amps pedals ) Now my church is medium
sized and if yours isn't that big or capable of that budget..Please Don't Be
Offended! I'm just saying. I have never in my life heard 1 person say "they are
showing off their Steinway, they could've bought a Baldwin and saved a fortune,
Sooo pretentious" So why do guitarist do this?
You are absolutely right. If you can afford gear and know how to use it,
great.
I think it's the emphasis being on the exclusiveness of the gear rather
than getting the job done. Also worshipping (pun intended) specific brands.
For any musician an emphasis on gear vs music is a red flag ime. In worship
in particular it's worse since it's meant to be about God.
111
Poquoson Va.
I got my signs wrong (<>) I meant less than $5000 dollars in post 31.
2,337
Jan 7, 2011
Washington, USA
Boltneck said: ↑
We are talking gear right? Compare with whats around you at church. Our
church has a baby grand Steinway and an organ that requires out of state techs to
repair. A sound system which also requires a tech to teach as well as maintain.
Many thousands of dollars were spent for these things..cause some people at the
church wanted the best that they could get. Here we are now talking about being
pretentious over what? A >$5000 rig? ( guitar,amps pedals ) Now my church is medium
sized and if yours isn't that big or capable of that budget..Please Don't Be
Offended! I'm just saying. I have never in my life heard 1 person say "they are
showing off their Steinway, they could've bought a Baldwin and saved a fortune,
Sooo pretentious" So why do guitarist do this?
I couldn't remember what the OP posted, so I had to go back and look. The
original topic of this thread was "why are we worship guitarists more pretentious
than our secular counterparts". I still think gear is the primary way many, maybe
even most, "worship guitarists" try to stand out from the crowd. The Lord knows
that the vast majority don't stand out in any way when it comes to creativity,
uniqueness, breadth of technical ability etc. etc.
I don't think that loading your board with the latest art graphic covered
pedals, or with $400 Chase Bliss or Strymon pedals is unique to the worship world,
but in my experience, worship musicians tend to go for trendy, "my board looks
cooler than your board" gear. You can't paint all of us with the same brush but
there are some valid reasons for the generalizations.
Age:
47
299
USA
I'm new to electric after playing acoustic for years. So when I built up my
rig over the last year or so, and I did it with an eye to covering Hillsong,
Passion, Bethel, etc., I was a bit of a lemming. (Vox AC15, but I did go with a G&L
ASAT Love it!) I actual tried an Epi LP, but even splitting coils, I could not get
the clean tones I was wanting. I am too new at this to have highly particular
tastes in say an OD pedal, so I just went with something well regarded, a Timmy.
111
Poquoson Va.
CapnCrunch said: ↑
I don't think that loading your board with the latest art graphic
covered pedals, or with $400 Chase Bliss or Strymon pedals is unique to the worship
world, but in my experience, worship musicians tend to go for trendy, "my board
looks cooler than your board" gear. You can't paint all of us with the same brush
but there are some valid reasons for the generalizations.
111
Poquoson Va.
I'm sorry I didn't get your quote in the same post CapnCrunch. I agree with
your comment. I just haven't been exposed to the snobbery others have I suppose. I
have had people ask me why I spend the money I do on my rig. I have observed guitar
players moaning bout the cost of their rig..however I have never heard that from
other musicians. Pianist,Trumpet and bass players,percussion or violins. Just
guitarist. And no one ask the others why they spent the money on their violin. Good
instruments aren't always cheap. We get what we can an improve as we can.
2,337
Jan 7, 2011
Washington, USA
Boltneck said: ↑
I'm sorry I didn't get your quote in the same post CapnCrunch. I agree
with your comment. I just haven't been exposed to the snobbery others have I
suppose. I have had people ask me why I spend the money I do on my rig. I have
observed guitar players moaning bout the cost of their rig..however I have never
heard that from other musicians. Pianist,Trumpet and bass players,percussion or
violins. Just guitarist. And no one ask the others why they spent the money on
their violin. Good instruments aren't always cheap. We get what we can an improve
as we can.
I totally agree with you on the double standard applied to other musicians
vs. guitar players in church. We could start a new thread on that topic. I didn't
reply to that topic because it is kind of a pet peave of mine, and I didn't want to
go off on a tangent. Our church has a 9 foot Steinway and HUGE pipe organ that was
bought in the 1960's. The Piano cost just south of $100K and the organ cost a lot
more than that in today's dollars. It cost over $50K alone just to repair and
maintain it a few years ago. The repair guys worked on it for more than two weeks.
I'd like to get the church to buy strings, new tubes and an occasional pedal, but
that is a non starter. Every weekend we set up the stage around our stupidly
monstrous grand piano, and I think of fun ways we could cut it up and have a big
fire…………
Another thing that I find "Ironic" is that we actually have some blue hairs
who will make a show of putting their fingers in their ears if they can hear the
drums or the electric guitar. On the other hand, they'll smile and sing along with
the pipe organ even though it is as loud as a jet engine, and way louder than the
contemporary instruments.
111
Poquoson Va.
1,740
Hopkinton, MA
There's my story, I'm sticking with it. By the way, my avatar tele started
as a $125 pawn shop MIM. Lotsa time and refinish with some locking tuners and very
little else (besides time and elbow grease) and it became the best tele I've ever
played, bar none. Yah, I was stupid and sold it off.....oh well. Someone got a
great guitar.