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Disparition de Khashoggi : un imbroglio qui pourrait cacher bien plus de

choses qu’une simple disparition d’un journaliste non apprécié


Partager la publication "Disparition de Khashoggi : un imbroglio qui pourrait cacher bien plus
de choses qu’une simple disparition d’un journaliste non apprécié"

Mon analyse du cas Khashoggi d’il y a huit jours ne s’est pas démentie par le développement
de cette affaire sinistre. Il ne fait plus de doute que la victime est tombée dans un traquenard
comme un débutant en se faisant fixer un second rdv au consulat saoudien d’Istanbul. MBS,
l’homme fort du Royaume est carrément montré du doigt et il est peu probable que les milliards
de dollars qu’il est prêt à mettre dans les poches des acteurs concernés, Trump et Jared Kushner
à leur tête, en passant par les Turcs, pour que ceux-ci arrivent à le blanchir.

Cette élimination est vraiment un acte stupide car Khashoggi n’était pas un vrai danger pour
MBS, puisque c’était un homme du renseignement saoudien, un homme du sérail et un homme
de la CIA. Les critiques qu’il exprimait dans ses tribunes au Washington Post, étaient surtout
des conseils au centre de décision saoudien complètement contrôlé par MBS et fortement
influencé dans ses prises de décision par MBZ et les Israéliens devenus omniprésents à Riyad.

Khashoggi se rendait bien compte, comme bien d’autres au sein de la CIA, que MBS menait le
pays à la catastrophe, probablement même à une aventure militaire contre l’Iran que les
Israéliens appellent de leurs vœux avec l’espoir d’y attirer les Etats-Unis. Le danger que
représentait Khashoggi pour le plan talmudiste, consistait dans le fait qu’il menait une activité
discrète d’explications au sein de l’intelligentsia washingtonien aux yeux de laquelle
Khashoggi était devenu éminemment crédible.

En somme, sans le vouloir peut-être, Khashoggi était devenu une source de contre-
désinformation qui commençait à contrer dangereusement la stratégie d’influence de l’AIPAC.
Ce sont des choses qui ne se pardonnent pas dans ce genre de milieux. Il ne faut pas oublier
aussi que Khashoggi était devenu une source d’inspiration pour les analystes de la CIA chargés
du dossier saoudien et que le journaliste n’épargnait pas dans les debriefings entre quatre yeux
l’action hiératique de MBS et son équipe de tocards.

On sait par ailleurs que la communauté de la sécurité nationale étasunienne aurait préféré avoir
un Mohamad Ben Nayef, l’ex-Prince hériter dégommé par MBS, comme futur Roi à Ryad. Si
en croit la presse tuque, trois officiers du Mossad faisaient partie du team qui s’est occupé de
Khashoggi au consulat. Parmi l’équipe, les services turcs ont relevé et fuité la présence d’un
médecin légiste saoudien. Apparemment c’est ce médecin légiste qui s’est chargé de découper,
en morceaux transportables dans des portes documents, du cadavre de ce pauvre journaliste.

Maintenant, il serait intéressant de voir comment Erdogan va imaginer un dénouement à ce


scénario macabre. Va-t-il siphonner lui aussi l’argent de MBS, comme est en train de le faire
Trump en ce moment même en utilisant l’affaire Khashoggi ; ou va-t-il enfoncer MBS ?

Ce qui est curieux cependant c’est que les Syriens, les Iraniens et le Hezbollah se sont abstenus
d’exploiter le cas Khashoggi pour mener des attaques en règle contre MBS qui se veut être leur
ennemi et l’ami d’Israël. Ces gens ont oublié d’être des imbéciles et je crois qu’ils ont compris
que MBS a été attiré dans un piège qui risque de déboucher en fin de parcours, par les
différentes boules de neige qu’il va engendrer, sur l’éclatement de l’Arabie Saoudite. Le
dépècement du Royaume ne sert que les talmudistes et leurs représentants genre Bolton ; mais
en aucun cas ses voisins. MBS et son staff sont-ils capables de comprendre cela ? J’en doute.
October 10, 2018

U.S. Intelligence Had A 'Duty To Warn' Khashoggi - Why Didn't That Happen?

It is beyond doubt that the Saudi government abducted, or killed, the Saudi journalist Jamal
Khashoggi. But what did the Trump administration knew about the threat to Khashoggi? Did
U.S. intelligence services warn him as their regulations require? Was such a warning blocked
by the White House? And what will Trump do about the case?

The Turkish government published pictures of 15 men who had come from Saudi Arabia and
were in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul shortly before Khashoggi visited it to get his divorce
papers. They moved Khashoggi to the residence of the consul and later that day flew back on
the same two private Saudi jets that had brought them to Istanbul.

At least 8 of the 15 men have been identified as Saudi royal military. At least three are
bodyguards of the Saudi clown prince Mohammad bin Salman. It is thereby obvious that the
clown prince himself gave the order for the operation. One of the 15 is Dr. Salah Muhammed
Al-Tubaigy, the head of forensic evidence at the Saudi General Security Department.

Anonymous Turkish sources assert that Khashoggi was killed, his body cut to pieces and taken
away. They even claim that there is video of the murder:

The official described a quick and complex operation in which Mr. Khashoggi was killed within two
hours of his arrival at the consulate by a team of Saudi agents, who dismembered his body with a bone
saw they brought for the purpose.

“It is like ‘Pulp Fiction,’” the official said.


...
Mr. Erdogan was informed of the conclusions on Saturday, according to several people with
knowledge of the briefings, and he has since dispatched officials to anonymously tell myriad
news outlets, including The New York Times, that Mr. Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi
Consulate.
...
Another person briefed on the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity to disclose
confidential details, told The Times on Saturday that Turkish intelligence had obtained a
video of the killing, made by the Saudis to prove that it had occurred.

A commentator close to Mr. Erdogan’s government said so publicly on Tuesday.

“There is a video of the moment of him being killed,” Kemal Ozturk, a columnist in a pro-
government newspaper and the former head of a semiofficial news agency, said in an interview
on a pro-government television network, citing unnamed security officials.

That Erdogan pushes this 'Pulp Fiction' story is not astonishing. His troops protect Qatar from a
Saudi attack and Qatar props up the Turkish economy with multi-billion investments. There is
also the old Ottoman versus Arab fight over leadership in the Middle East.

But why would the Saudis kill Khashoggi? Why not drug him, haul him to the airport and fly
him back to Riyadh as a "medial emergency"? Why not put him into a big box and transported
him as privileged diplomatic baggage? If the Saudis intended to kill Khashoggi they could have
hire some guy to shoot him in the streets. It would have been a much simpler operation and
way less suspicious.

Killing Khashoggi in the official Consulate makes no sense - unless MbS wanted this current
public outrage. Is it a warning to all his enemies? Is it to demonstrate that he can get away with
anything?

The Washington Post reports that the U.S. government knew that Khashoggi was in danger:

Before Khashoggi’s disappearance, U.S. intelligence intercepted communications of Saudi officials


discussing a plan to capture him, according to a person familiar with the information. The Saudis
wanted to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia and lay hands on him there, this person said. It was not
clear whether the Saudis intended to arrest and interrogate Khashoggi or to kill him, or if the United
States warned Khashoggi that he was a target, this person said.

If U.S. intelligence knew of the danger to Khashoggi Intelligence Community Directive 191 -
Duty to Warn (pdf) would have applied:

An IC element that collects or acquires credible and specific information indicating an impending
threat of intentional killing, serious bodily injury, or kidnapping directed at a person or group of
people (hereafter referred to as intended victim) shall have a duty to warn the intended victim or
those responsible for protecting the intended victim, as appropriate. This includes threats where the
target is an institution, place of business, structure, or location. The term intended victim includes
both U.S. persons, as defined in EO 12333, Section 3.5(k), and non-U.S. persons.

Read plainly ICD 191 provides that the U.S. intelligence services had to warn Khashoggi of the
Saudi threat. Did they do so or not?

There are a few exceptions in the directive that allow to withhold a warning. If the information
came through a friendly intelligence service the protection of sources and methods has priority
over a warning (point E.3.e. in the regulation.)

If U.S. intelligence acquired the information through the British GHCQ, a warning to
Khashoggi might have revealed that the GHCQ has bugged all those Cisco telephones the
Saudi royals so proudly display. But there was little danger that a warning to Khashoggi would
have revealed anything. The Saudis will surely expect that the U.S., British and other
intelligence services listen to even their private communications.

There may have been other reasons to withhold a warning. Trump's son in law and senior aid
Jared Kushner has good personal relations with MbS. In March The Intercept reported that,
according to MbS, Kushner revealed U.S. intelligence about MbS' enemies to him.

[A]fter the meeting, Crown Prince Mohammed told confidants that Kushner had discussed the names
of Saudis disloyal to the crown prince, according to three sources who have been in contact with
members of the Saudi and Emirati royal families since the crackdown.
The meeting took place in late October 2017. About a week later the Saudi clown prince
incarcerated hundreds of his rich relatives and other Saudi billionaires in the Ritz hotel in
Riyadh and pressured them to hand over their assets.

Kushner had obviously no qualms to rat out the people who privately criticized MbS.

(In February 2018 Kushner lost access to top level security briefings because his interim
security clearance was revoked. This may have been the deep state's revenge for his
indiscretion. Kushner finally passed full clearance and regained access in May.)

Not to warn Khashoggi might well have been a White House decision. It is the Trump's
administration policy to not challenge its allies over human rights issues. The State Department
even produced a memo explaining that human rights criticism only applies to U.S. 'enemies'.

If the Saudis want to nab Khashoggi, the White House might have thought, why no let them
have him?

Trump's foreign policy depends on good relations with the Saudis:

The Trump administration, from the president on down, is heavily invested in the Saudi relationship.
Robin Wright, a scholar at the Wilson Center think tank and close friend of the missing writer, said
that’s unlikely to change. The administration’s Middle East agenda heavily depends on the Saudis,
including efforts to counter Iranian influence in the region, fight extremism and build support for its
yet-to-be-released plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

The Turkish and Qatari rulers and their media do their best to propagandize the case and to rage
against the Saudi regime. The Washington Post, for which Khashoggi wrote, will surely not let
go of the issue. Other 'western' media and journalists are also enraged about the case.
Khashoggi was one of them, aristocratic elite as they see themselves, who do not deserve such
fate.

Can MbS and the Trump regime really sit back and not reply to demands of serious
consequences over the case?

That may well be. After all, no one is challenging the U.S.-Saudis alliance over the daily
murder it commits in Yemen and elsewhere. If the Saudis kidnapped Khashoggi, and provide
evidence that he is alive, the media outrage will soon die down. If the Turkish government
publishes the video of the murder that it claims to have, it will only take a bit longer until other
news moves the case from the front pages.

There is no real reason for MbS, or Trump, to care.

Posted by b on October 10, 2018 at 01:02 PM | Permalink

Comments

next page »
Here are some cables that WikiLeaks released showing us how the Saudi royal family tries to
control the world's media:

http://viableopposition.blogspot.ca/2016/01/how-saudi-arabia-controls-its-own-media.html

The Saudi Royal Family has bottomless pockets when it comes to controlling the negative press
coverage.

Posted by: Sally Snyder | Oct 10, 2018 1:12:34 PM | 1

I hate to agree with your conclusion b, but I see no reason to doubt it. If The clowns can take a
non-murder false flag of an ex-spy and turn it into the crime of the century, why couldn't they
take an actual murder and turn it into a non-event? They've been murdering Yemenis by the
tens of thousands, who will bat an eye over one measly dissident?

Posted by: Don Wiscacho | Oct 10, 2018 1:50:05 PM | 2

I hate to agree with your conclusion b, but I see no reason to doubt it. If The clowns can take a
non-murder false flag of an ex-spy and turn it into the crime of the century, why couldn't they
take an actual murder and turn it into a non-event? They've been murdering Yemenis by the
tens of thousands, who will bat an eye over one measly dissident?

Posted by: Don Wiscacho | Oct 10, 2018 1:50:05 PM | 3

It's ludicrous to invoke that regulation, because - if such a regulation really exists - it would tie
the so-called "intelligence community" in knots. Its largest element, the CIA, spends a lot of its
time planning anc carrying out "intentional killing, serious bodily injury, or kidnapping". Does
that mean it has a legal duty to warn everyone before it does such things?

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Oct 10, 2018 1:52:05 PM | 4

If there is such animosity between the Turks and the Saudis; can you please explain how they
got a kidnapped person through airport security? Oh yeah, he's still tied up at the Consul's
house -- sure.

That's why the Saudis flew in a top FORENSICS expert with 15 other top elite intelligence
guys who subsequently left the scene on two jets. They needed them all just to capture
Khashoggi and then all leave with no one to watch over him tied up in the Consul's basement.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 1:52:32 PM | 5

Pathological killers like Trump and MbS never have remorse over their acts. Tyrants will be
Tyrants until a noose around their neck snaps it and tames their behavior.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2018 1:52:54 PM | 6

Actually the Forensics expert is included in the 15. I guess they used him only to ensure they
didn't leave any traces of a kidnapping scene behind.

Of course Trump is okay with it; he's just upset he didn't think of it first!
Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 2:01:50 PM | 7

Circe 4

A pathologist would know how to dismember a corpse, also how to clean the mess and leave no
physical evidence.

Saudi has a long tradition to "repatriate" dissidents, even from Switzerland.

Posted by: Charles Michael | Oct 10, 2018 2:04:40 PM | 8

I vaguely remember Trump promising to drain the swamp and bring down the deep state.
Judging from the anti-Trump media hysteria, it seems the deep state does not like him and that
gives me a little hope he was not lying. Perhaps Trump keeps his friends close but his enemies
even closer? He may be luring the clueless clown prince in just the right position to throw him
under the bus, US neocon regime-change style.

Posted by: Joost | Oct 10, 2018 2:09:43 PM | 9

KHASHOGGI'S DEAD and they did a thorough job. The only clue left that he was present in
the Consul's house is dust if they even left a speck of him behind. You can take that to the bank.

Now why would they hold a kidnap victim in a house on foreign soil and then all take off on
two planes with separate routes? They surely didn't get him through airport security even in
pieces!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 2:10:33 PM | 10

IDC-191.......what a joke. If they didn’t warn 3000 innocent people in twin towers of their
impending doom to achieve their Pearl Harbor event,you think they would think twice about
letting this go to achieve another?

These are disgusting times we are living at. Mafia rules and killings moved from the streets
right to the Oval Office and client kingdoms.

Time to buy a one way ticket out of this filthy country. It is hopeless.

Posted by: Alpi | Oct 10, 2018 2:16:36 PM | 11

ICD-191.........

Posted by: Alpi | Oct 10, 2018 2:17:17 PM | 12

@8 Joosst

Got swampland too? So you're telling us that Trump has been supplying a gargantuan amount
of weaponry to the Saudis, feeding them intelligence, and fueling their jets to go wreak misery
and destruction on Yemen all on the U.S. taxpayers dime so he can lure MbS under the bus?
More like lure him under the sheets for a neocon tete a tete!
Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 2:24:11 PM | 13

Some action the US can take against the headchoppers: Call Bush out of retirement to kiss their
ass again, or Obama to give another bow or have Trump do another sword dance. What the
hell, just go out and kill another school bus load of Yemeni babies ..... no one in the US will
notice.

Posted by: Ger | Oct 10, 2018 2:28:43 PM | 14

@10

Saudi-Zionist-American operation. And they're all still best friends working together for their
common cause.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 2:29:23 PM | 15

Khashoggi was apparently wearing an Apple Watch, which if synchronized (close to his iPhone
that he left with his fiancee) could transmit this info to his phone and provide a clue to his
location, heart rate, etc. (if equipped on the correct watch model) to help shed light into his
fate.

Khashoggi handed Cengiz his two mobile phones, the fiancee told Reuters. He left instructions that she
should call Yasin Aktay, the Erdoğan aide, if he didn’t reappear. Khashoggi was wearing his black Apple
Watch, connected to one of the phones, when he entered the building.
...
“We have determined that it was on him when he walked into the consulate,” the security official said.
Investigators are trying to determine what information the watch transmitted. “Intelligence services,
the prosecutor’s office and a technology team are working on this. Turkey does not have the watch so
we are trying to do it through connected devices,” he said.

Posted by: jsb | Oct 10, 2018 2:47:25 PM | 16

The Saudis did so plainly in view because they can, the Americans cannot drop them, the two
countries made a deal decades ago, the Saudis price oil in dollars, the Americans offer an
unquestionable protection.

The pricing of oil in dollars is one of the pillars underpinning the reserve status of the US
currency which allows an unlimited printing of the stuff, we're talking big money, each year the
buyers of the black gold have to find around $9.0tr to purchase it for comparison: (the US GDP
stands around $20.0tr).

Posted by: Baron | Oct 10, 2018 2:48:30 PM | 17

@Circe: You may be right. Them SA dudes are wearing the sheets already, they've come
prepared. Embrace and conquer could be the strategy though. Like Iraq, Cozy up to some
dictator, give him some free chemicals and convince him to try some on those dastardly Kurds,
its ok with us, no problem, we are your friends. Then when the world shudders in horror, jump
on your democratic high horse while you shout 'lets move in and regime-change the fukker for
possession of chemical weapons'.
The Yemen war is an Obama era legacy. He assisted the Saudi's in exchange for support for the
Iran deal, and war profits from weapon deals obviously. Now the Iran deal is off the table so I
am curious to see what happens to the other side of the deal, not much so far but at least Trump
asked SA to pay for the arms.

Posted by: Joost | Oct 10, 2018 2:48:45 PM | 18

It's getting better and better

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/turkish-opposition-calls-on-erdogan-to-expel-saudi-
diplomats-from-country/

Posted by: Charles Michael | Oct 10, 2018 2:52:16 PM | 19

Very loosely related, but it just occurred to me. Since Jared Kushner gave MbS a list of his
less-than-enthusiastic relatives and he went after them, jailed them, tortured them and
plundered them, boy wonder Kushner best hopes that both Trump and MbS will remain in
power as long as possible. Because as soon as both are out - in a way or another -, his life might
well be forfeit. Pissed off and still billionaire Saudi royals won't forget.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Oct 10, 2018 2:53:17 PM | 20

@17 Oh please, quit with the Trump propaganda already. Trump is all in with these Zionist
proxies the Saudis and his Zionist masters.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 2:55:03 PM | 21

As far as getting the body parts through airport security, all they needed was one person with a
dipomatic passport bringing in the boxes with the body parts as priveleged diplomatic luggage
(officially, a "diplomatic pouch"), which is exempt from any security or customs inspections.
The three body guards of the clown prince surely travel with him, which means that they have
the same diplomatic passports as the man whom they protect. They would have been sufficient
to channel the charnel through the official formalities.

I agree with the idea that the manner in which it was done was intended to be a warning. If, as
reported, the clown prince is spending his nights on his yacht because he is afraid of
assassination attempts, he is, to say the least, apprehensive and might feel the need to flex his
muscles. This murder would be discreet and dramatic and terrifying at all once. There are
surely, among those whom he locked up in the hotel and tortured, persons (or their next of kin)
whose capacity for reprisal is considerable.

To take it a bit further... his country is in a bad way. The hotel hoist did not produce nearly as
much booty as expected. The great captial infusion that the Aramco stock offering was to bring
in fizzled because Aramco could not be listed on the New York stock exchange because it
refused to reveal its assets (what is supposed to be behind the stock valuation), to wit its proven
reserves. They are laregely exhausted.
I should refer you to Matthew Simmons' book "Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil
Shock and the World Edconomy". Simmons was an oil geologist who worked over there and
saw how they were desperately trying the wring every last drop out of the oil wells as they
pumped them dry. He also analyzed over 200 peer-reviewed monographs about dealing with
the challenges of wringing out those last drops and getting oil out of obscure pockets.

The assault on Yemen is a war over the oil in the Empty Quarter, the southern area of Saudi
Arabia, so desolate that an exact border between the Kingdom and Yemen was never surveyed
and properly established. It was only recently that, in desperation, the Saudis began exploring
there and discovered huge amounts of oil, most of it on the Yemeni side, no matter how one
draws the border. Its acquisition was supposed to be another "slam dunk" or "cake walk" (take
your pick), but, as we see, the Yemenis are turning out to be a hard nut to crack. That oil would
allow Aramco to post assets commensurate with the stock market capitalization it hopes to
achieve, but it is proving elusive.

In the meantime, Yemen is being destroyed, its people murdered wholesale, the clown prince's
great 2030 transformation is on hold, the Kingdom's population is continuing to grow (the
fastest growth rate in the world, as I remember), and its disaffected youth who are not looking
for new thrills besides drugs, pinball machines and fast cars are in search of some sort of
meaning behind the mindlessness of the consumer society. Wahabite extremism thus looks
attractive for more and more of them.

Stay tuned.

Posted by: RJPJR | Oct 10, 2018 3:03:13 PM | 22

Whenever I read an article on foreign affairs in the WaPo, the first thing that comes to my mind
is "this is what the CIA wants us to believe." In this case, the CIA wants us to believe that the
intelligence community knew of the operation but that the Trump administration refused to act
which is consistent with WaPo's strategy of throwing shade on Trump. Of course, a Trump
denial would not be believed. Who knows what the truth is?

Posted by: TheBAG | Oct 10, 2018 3:07:20 PM | 23

Being a bit cynical, if the "Intelligence" agencies knew what was going to happen to Khashogii,
they expected it to work. So that they could then use their knowledge as blackmail for MbS.
Particularly if the video "fell" into their hands afterwards. That his fiancee was outside waiting,
with one of his two watches in hand was probably not in the plan.

Posted by: stonebird | Oct 10, 2018 3:28:11 PM | 24

If there is a warning in any of this, it’s that crossing the Saudis is dangerous to anyone, perhaps
even including Javanka. Or someone like them. Other reporters, perhaps. (h/t Clueless Joe
@19.)

Consulate premises are presumably protected under the Vienna Convention, right? The Saudis
are acting benevolent as they allow searches.
So the Wapo aristocratic deep-staters are mourning the loss of one who crossed Saudistan, yet
their job has been to promote the US-SAUDI-ISRAELI party line all along. May Bezos cry in
his tea.

Posted by: Stumpy | Oct 10, 2018 3:28:59 PM | 25

Why is the Sudia Aria not bombed? Why is Israel not bombed ? the both have good relations to
the criminal nation of the US.
These wswine and dogs must be eradicated. They bring horror into our world and nothing else

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Oct 10, 2018 3:34:05 PM | 26

There was also a third possibility highlighted, in part, in the article I've posted @15 (according
to the Hurriyet), and corroborated by NYT and Sabah.

And investigators are trying to trace a vehicle that left the Saudi consulate at the same time as two
cars destined for the airport, one of the officials said. This vehicle didn’t turn towards the airport, but
set off in the opposite direction.

And according the the NYT in the article b linked to above:

Two and a half hours after he entered the facility, six vehicles with diplomatic license plates pulled out,
carrying 15 Saudi officials and intelligence officers, Sabah reported.

Two other vehicles, including a black Mercedes Vito van with darkened windows, went
from the consulate to the consul’s residence about 200 yards away. Turkish employees of
the residence had unexpectedly been told not to report for work that day, the newspaper
said.

The NYT report is based on this Sabah article:

News channel 24 aired the video, suggesting that Khashoggi was inside of the black Mercedes-Benz
Vito, which resembled one parked outside of the consulate when the writer walked in on Oct. 2. The
channel said the van then drove some 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) to the consul's home, where it parked
inside a garage.

So, it seems plausible that this third vehicle (possibly this black van) carried Khashoggi in
whole, possibly incapacitated, or in parts (no pun intended) to the consul's home nearby,
either to be dismembered, disposed of, or transferred by other means to KSA or some
other undisclosed location.

Posted by: jsb | Oct 10, 2018 3:46:05 PM | 27


"If the information came through a friendly intelligence service the protection of sources and
methods has priority over a warning"

If the information came from Turkish intelligence services, this exception would surely apply.
And, obviously, Turkey knew quite a lot. Perhaps Turkish intelligence supplied the information
knowing that US intelligence would respect their "sources and methods" and not warn
Khashoggi. The end result is that Erdogan looks like a 'good' guy (at least to the sickos in
Washington and MSM)and MbS less so. The US (govt) is supporting Saudi attacks on Yemen
but do they support KSA against(Turkey's ally) Qatar?

Posted by: wootendw | Oct 10, 2018 3:58:58 PM | 28

".......But why would the Saudis kill Khashoggi? Why not drug him, haul him to the airport and fly him
back to Riyadh as a "medial emergency"? Why not put him into a big box and transported him as
privileged diplomatic baggage? If the Saudis intended to kill Khashoggi they could have hire some guy
to shoot him in the streets. It would have been a much simpler operation and way less suspicious........"

You could certainly say the same about the botched attempted murder of Skripal and the
murder of Litvinenko using polonium 210 by the GRU. The "clown" prince may have wanted
to send a message (as you suggested) - like Putin. Trump is not ideologically driven. Allies are
important, and "real politik" drives his decisions so it would not be a shocker if Trump gives
MBS a pass on the murder(?) although I don't believe the MSM is going to just let this one die
(so to speak). The Israel-Saudi Arabia-US alliance in opposition to Iranian spreading of its
influence is Trump's most consistent and important policy in the Middle East.

Posted by: craigsummers | Oct 10, 2018 4:00:23 PM | 29

Where's the import of Kashoggi?

Aren't all these consulates bugged by their host countries?

Why take the risk of murdering an unimportant fake-critic(!), and run the risk of leaving a
video and/or audio trail?

This story as it is now is nonsensical.

Posted by: bjd | Oct 10, 2018 4:07:06 PM | 30

@22

Poor-poor innocent Trump is at the mercy of a left-wing conspiracy; always the innocent victim
ACCORDING to you and a few others here.

Like Trump cares a journalist who went rogue was cut up in pieces by Trump Saudi friends
who he's helping destroy Yemen! Look up every video where Trump is slobbering praise on
MbS. He's so innocent, poor thing...blech.

And I don't even like Wapo. Americans, always fighting over who's soul is more corrupt when
the entire system is rotten to the core. Wapo, WSJ, Trump, Clinton...same difference. To
defend one over the other is to defend the indefensible, always.
Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 4:07:21 PM | 31

@29

They probably swept the place for bugs and took whatever video there was with them or
disabled the system. The Mossad conducts operations despite airport and camera surveillance
where they conduct them. It means nothing except that the mission was important enough to the
Saudis to assume certain risk. I still think there's more going on here in regards to motive and
complicity.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 4:20:00 PM | 32

Nice of craigsummers to drop another steaming turd in the punchbowl.

Posted by: SlapHappy | Oct 10, 2018 4:21:41 PM | 33

Nice distraction from Yemen

Perhaps a not so subtle warning to journalists who want to criticize US-Saudi operations in
Yemen.

Much like anthrax silenced those who might be critical of the official US-Saudi official story of
9-11

Turkey seems too interested in the fate of a Saudi national. Whats in it for Erdogan? Distraction
from the economy? Cooperation in return for some payoff?

Posted by: Pft | Oct 10, 2018 4:34:48 PM | 34

The Saudi's lured Hariri to KSA, most likely with Trump blessings, and held him without
caring what any other country thought. Perhaps this is supposed to be a warning to MBS and
Trump's enemies that KSA, like Israel can do as they please without regard to international law,
though MBS is is completely controlled by Trump.
How long does MBS last now without Trump protection. I think less than two weeks.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 10, 2018 4:40:29 PM | 35

why would saudis whack someone IN an embassy? have they ever done so before? has
anyone?any proof he was killed there? or killed at all by saudis?

'It is beyond doubt that the Saudi government abducted, or killed, the Saudi journalist Jamal
Khashoggi. '

OR? so noone knows if he was killed or not...all that can be said is he is Missing

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 5:04:38 PM | 36

Nice of craigsummers to drop another steaming turd in the punchbowl.

Posted by: SlapHappy | Oct 10, 2018 4:21:41 PM | 32


Yeah, this site really deserves a better level of paid shill trolling the boards here. Its like they
are not even trying.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Oct 10, 2018 5:09:12 PM | 37

@ 21 (RJPJR)
From a bit of a Conspiracy POV I was always curious about the sudden untimely death of Mr
Simmons in his hottub. He was speaking out at the time on "peak oil" - I'm sure the guys at
ARAMCO and KSA in general wanted him gone.

Twilight in the Desert - indeed. Some interesting comments in the reviews:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43147.Twilight_in_the_Desert

Mathew was a useful contributor to The Oil Drum.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6831

Posted by: DAVID POWELL | Oct 10, 2018 5:21:39 PM | 38

@34

MbS...less than two weeks? I'll start my stop watch and get back to you...ain't gonna happen.

@35

Okay, so all employees at consulate and consul's home told to take a day off, two jets fly 15
Saudis into Turkey, including high-level intelligence, MbS security and a top Forensics expert,
cctv videotape missing, black van with opaque windows waiting 2 hours for something in back
of consulate then goes to consul's home and the squad leave on same planes to Riyadh via two
different cities.

All that for what exactly?

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 5:29:27 PM | 39

@29
yes the story is nonsensical. People are running with it as it suits prejudices

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 5:44:18 PM | 40

@38
youve a future in hollywood as a thriller scriptwriter.

now if i wanted someone dead or disappeared, id do it away from where i was to deflect blame.
and id not use hit men from my own country.
This is a lot like Skripal hoax story

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 5:46:54 PM | 41


Its interesting but according to CPJ at least 73 journalists were jailed in relation to their work in
Turkey as of last December

Posted by: Pft | Oct 10, 2018 5:57:26 PM | 42

It looks to me as a clear warning to those western prime ministers,politicians and news media
that are controlled by KSA to not interfere in Saudi politics,and not being critical of its
representants in international organisms.Is there any other country in the world that is so
obviously a dictature,the land itself being the property of the ruling tribe,any other country
where a prince future king can tie up hundreds of the richest men of the country in order to skin
them of billions of dollars,without even raising those journalists' and politicians'eyebrows who
regularly suffer heartattacks and insomnia over the slightest "faux pas" or non-conform
utterance of types like Trump.
Because Saudi money and funding is all over the place,they know they can get away with
evrything they come up with.For instance they ,a country without a constution,no elections,
were part of the "Small Group" to get a democratic process going in Syria.Nobody asks the
right questions these days.

I verified "Le Monde".Well,normally blowing from the highest top when journalists lives are in
danger or have been killed,the don't seem to show much interest,and ,as seen before in
ambiguous geopolitical situations the have a tendancy to stall a few days,maybe waiting for
some narrative guidelines by the Counsel on Foreign Relations and other bilderbergers.After
the failed coup d'état against Erdogan they did the same thing.

The thing that puzzles me is,why do they need 15 men to do such a job?Could it be that they
improvised a trial?Or an interrogation,one should look up the profiles of those men.

Posted by: willie | Oct 10, 2018 5:57:29 PM | 43

Another thought: Is Khashoggi worth mourning given he essentially was a Daesh promoter and
abettor? Just how was he different from any other headchopper? Personally, I shed no tears that
he's likely been made into a trinket for MbS.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2018 5:57:58 PM | 44

Willie @42--

"why do they need 15 men?"

Training exercise, IMO, to be employed later.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2018 6:04:29 PM | 45

Posted by: Circe @38:

Also do not forget that Khashoggi first entered the consulate four days earlier without an
appointment (Friday Sept 28) **see my original Hurriyet link @15** and was told to check
back early the following week. And lo and behold the Saudis flew in to Istanbul that Monday,
although at separate times. Coincidence?
visited the consulate without an appointment on Friday, Sept 28. Cengiz waited outside. That first
meeting went smoothly. Khashoggi told Cengiz and several friends that officials in the consulate had
treated him politely. They explained the paperwork would take time to prepare.

Khashoggi exchanged phone numbers with a consulate official named Sultan so he could
call and check on progress, according to three friends. Sultan said the document would be
ready early the following week. Reuters has not been able to locate Sultan or confirm his role
at the consulate. The consul declined to comment on who Khashoggi spoke to.

“He came out smiling. He told me ‘inshallah (God willing) I will receive this paper after I come
back from London,’” Cengiz said.

...

Khashoggi flew back to Istanbul from London on Monday evening, Oct 1. The following
morning, he spoke again with consul worker Sultan, who told him to collect the document
at 1 p.m the same day.

And according to this source:

The American daily obtained a photograph taken from a Turkish police closed-circuit television (CCTV)
camera outside the residence of the Saudi consul general, Mohammed al-Otaibi, located less than 500
meters from the consulate.

It shows a Mercedes Vito van with tinted windows, which is believed to have transported some
of the Saudi suspects from the consulate to Otaibi’s residence about two hours after
Khashoggi had entered the diplomatic mission.

...

Meanwhile, The Guardian reported that security camera footage had been removed from the
Saudi consulate in Istanbul, and the Turkish staff had been abruptly told to take a
holiday on the day Khashoggi vanished.

Turkish investigators believe the CCTV footage from inside the consulate was onboard
the two corporate jets that took the Saudi suspects back to Riyadh.

A reporter with the Yeni Safak daily said on Wednesday that Turkey’s National Security
Service had footage showing Khashoggi’s entrance into the Saudi consulate and his murder.

These films , he added, would be released by the Anadolu news agency.

Posted by: jsb | Oct 10, 2018 6:05:00 PM | 46


'Anonymous Turkish sources assert that Khashoggi was killed, his body cut to pieces and taken
away.'

fake news of the grand guignol type

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 6:07:49 PM | 47

One curious aspect of the Khashoggi disappearance is that British news media seem rather
disinterested in the whole affair.

At the same time, they are talking up Bellingcat / The Insider Russia's discovery of "Dr
Alexander Mishkin" as the supposed military doctor, carrying a Novichok antidote (atropine),
who accompanied Ruslan Boshirov / "Anatoly Chepiga" on his mission to smear the doorknob
of the front door of Sergei Skripal's house in Salisbury in March this year.

https://www.rt.com/news/440693-uk-press-khashoggi-saudi-wikileaks/

Interesting that Wikileaks is drawing comparisons between the apathy being shown over
Khashoggi's disappearance by the UK media and the fuss they made over Arkady Babchenko's
faked murder in five months ago. As JudaZ referenced at the RT.com link says, it surely must
be because no-one as yet has found a way to blame the Russian President for Jamal
Khashoggi's walk into a black hole.

Also thanks to JSB @ 15 for providing that Hurriyet Daily News link because the article
cleared up the confusion some MoA commenters over why Khashoggi had to go to the Saudi
embassy in Istanbul to get his divorce papers in order: he had divorced his wife earlier and was
planning to marry Hatice Cengiz in Istanbul, but Turkish law required him to have a document
proving his divorce and this is why he needed to go to the Saudi embassy, to get this
documentation. The article also states why he did not go to the Saudi embassy in Washington
DC, even though his instinct must have told him that was the better place to go to. His instinct
could have been right.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 10, 2018 6:12:14 PM | 48

Maybe the Saudis kidnapped Khashoggi on behalf of the US so as to exchange him for Andrew
Brunson who is being held by Turkey. Apparently his fiancee has some connections close to
Erdogan

There is no evidence he was killed and no reason for the Saudis to kill him in this fashion.

Posted by: Pft | Oct 10, 2018 6:17:30 PM | 49

@40

That's you. The Mossad use their own hit men. So what are you? The smartest guy in the room,
or someone with an agenda to deflect from the truth.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 6:18:12 PM | 50


Also found this video from a private Turkish TV channel on RT.com of Khashoggi entering the
consulate and a black van leaving the building shortly afterwards.
https://www.rt.com/news/440861-saudi-consulate-black-van/

This may be valuable information as The Guardian is now reporting that CCTV footage inside
the Saudi consulate has been removed and Turkish consulate staff were told to take a day off on
the day Khashoggi disappeared.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/khashoggi-case-cctv-disappears-from-saudi-
consulate-in-turkey

Posted by: Jen | Oct 10, 2018 6:22:22 PM | 51

@40

I meant to say Israelis use hit men from their own country, the Mossad, except sometimes
inside Iran when they used the MEK. The U.S. uses Americans, CIA. North Korea used two
NK women to off Kim's brother.

Do you even know what you're saying? It's done all the time.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 6:35:35 PM | 52

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 6:18:12 PM | 49

the smartest guy in this room and the least gullible....when a body turns up IN an embassy then
u can claim he she ws whacked there

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 6:57:42 PM | 53

First: it is possible that Saudis had no intent to kill Kashooggi. They were going to pressure him
to come back to Saudi Arabia. As he refused or resisted, they may have actually killed him
accidentally.

Second: Kashooggi's fate will resonate within Saudi Arabia and either like sheeps no one will
seek revenge or there will be plots to kill MBS

Third: Erdogan with Qatar's pressures will not let go as he wants to blackmail Saudi Arabia in
stopping the boycott of Qatar

Fourth: The killing of Kashooggi may have been commited by a Yemeni (agent) kamikaze
inside the consulate. Kashoogi has been in favor of the murderous Yemen war and is hated by
yemenis.

I think that is the most plausible scenario the Saudis will use to implicate .... Iran

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 10, 2018 6:58:50 PM | 54

As Khashoggi was an IS supporter, IS will revenge his murder. Already I read on RT that IS
seized chlorine canisters in attack on Al-Nusra & White Helmets.
Posted by: Peter Schmidt | Oct 10, 2018 7:00:43 PM | 55

Posted by: Jen | Oct 10, 2018 6:22:22 PM | 50

disappearing CCTV footage recalls 2006 london..only its still: 'trust me' journalism... not
:'heres the body in the embassy' journalism

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 7:02:10 PM | 56

@51
I meant to say Israelis use hit men from their own country, the Mossad, except sometimes
inside Iran when they used the MEK. The U.S. uses Americans, CIA. North Korea used two
NK women to off Kim's brother.

Do you even know what you're saying? It's done all the time.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 6:35:35 PM | 51

what else have u got wrong?

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 7:03:19 PM | 57

@51
where have people been killed INSIDE embassies?

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 7:03:58 PM | 58

As Khashoggi was an IS supporter, IS will revenge his murder. Already I read on RT that IS
seized chlorine canisters in attack on Al-Nusra & White Helmets.

Posted by: Peter Schmidt | Oct 10, 2018 7:00:43 PM | 53

so far this isnt common knowledge...

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 7:06:08 PM | 59

@52

LOL! You're the smartest according to YOU! The body won't turn up because a forensics
expert was part of the team to ensure there's no trace of it left to turn up.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 7:09:57 PM | 60

@36 Clearly they get what they pay for.

Posted by: Ash | Oct 10, 2018 7:10:09 PM | 61


Sorry to be off topic again but I was listening to Billie Holiday and Strange Fruit- a song about
lynchings. I
wrote the following:

And the black people could not venture forth after dark. Headlights from pick up trucks with
deep engine roars and men in dungarees would pick them out as they maybe happily left a girl
they had been dating and ventured forth into the moonlight to return home. Trousers down and
almost immediate castration by butcher’s knife amid disgusting insults. Then the slow torture,
the burning of flesh by blowlamp or fire, the pounding of flesh by clubs before the obligatory
hanging before the towing away as bits of flesh fell off and comingled with the dust.

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 10, 2018 7:13:28 PM | 62

DAVID POWELL 37

Thanks for the information about Matthew Simmons. I was entirely unaware of it. Peak oil was
eclipsed by fracking, and ever greater technological developments allowing ever more deep
water drilling in the seas.

However, the role of Saudi Arabia in regulating the oil market remains a major concern for the
United States, regardless of what other sources of oil are found. It is also a major part of what
makes S.A. a big-time player.

The exhaustion of S.A.'s Gahwar giant oil field deprives S.A. of this role of market regulator
unless the Empty Quarter oil can be brought into production (and that's going to take quite a
while, considering the severe desert environment). Without it, S.A. becomes a minor player,
and the United States loses a major power lever.

When the sanctions on Iran were announced by the Drumpf administration, it was immediately
stated by the mainstream media that the loss of Iranian oil on the international markets would
be made up by an increase of S.A.'s production. Yet, there has been no increase. A few
intelligent observers, never consulted by the mainstream media commentariat, pointed out that
the Kingdom is already at peak production and that there is no longer any elasticity in it.

The exhaustion of S.A.'s reserves and the inability to bring into production the oil in the Empty
Quarter is enough in itself to explain what I see as MbS's panic. It is also a good reason to take
seriously Bolton's declaration that he and the MeK will be in Teheran next year, setting up a
replacement for S.A.'s regulator role.

In the long run, the alternative to using S.A.'s (or Iran's) output to regulate market prices is to
use Venezuela's, whose reserves are the largest in the world. Also, the Koch brothers' refineries
on the Gulf coast were built to refine the heavy Venezuelan oil, hence the need to move tar
sands oil south across the U.S. so that they keep going and the continuing destabilization of
Venezuela with another coup d'état likely in the offing.

The oil/energy conflicts are not likely to end any time soon, yet...

The Expert Input to the Talanoa Dialogue was submitted to the United Nations on 1 April
2018. It's been ignored by the IPPC, which is, remember, an intergovernmental, hence
POLITICAL, body, notorious for manipulating the science and pushing the best-case scenarios
even as almost all of its worst-case scenarios have turned out to be the case, often well ahead of
schedule.

I quote: "While supportive of the efforts and proposed commitments to date to reduce
emissions of both long- and short-lived greenhouse gases as a means to limit the increase in the
global average temperature to no more than 1.5° to 2°C above preindustrial [levels], the
scientific and economic evidence that is available makes clear that: ... reducing risks back to
levels that society and the environment can accomodate will require bringing the global
average temperature back to no more tham 0.5°C above its preindustiral level as rapidly as
possible."

https://unfccc.int/sites/default/files/resource/97_Talanoa%20Submission_climate%20institute.p
df

Posted by: RJPJR | Oct 10, 2018 7:16:22 PM | 63

@55

I didn't get anything wrong. I was elaborating on previous comment. But do you even read
English? Ahhh, never mind; I'm sick of your trolling.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 7:20:08 PM | 64

37

Yeah, Oil Drum and apparently Las Vegas mass shooting while MbS was allegedly in Vegas,
then Jared who had Top Secret access and reported directly to Nuttybooboo, then the
abductions, tortures and ransoms, then failed ARAMCO.

My theory would be this relates to Saudi oil default on the loans, mass dumping not just of US
Treasuries, but US Treasuries *held on margin 6:1*, themselves hedged and shorted...in other
words, a Lehman neutron bmob for the two US entitlement systems, SS and MC, which
underpinning USTs as Congress'-designated 'buyer of last resort'.

It's Lehman on Steroids, also Halliburton Two, oil roars to $200 or higher, Russia, Iran, Canada
and Venezuela suddenly wealthy, billions starving, USArya reeling with tens of millions of
seniors robbed of bankrupted MC and SS pensions, collapse of the $650,000 city townhouse
developer swindle, real estate sales tax diving, property tax soaring, huddled wretches on every
street corner, grocery store shelves empties, lines around the block for $6.50 gasoline, ....why,
it's Pope Albertus' Carbon Catholic Wet Dream!!

Khashoggi is worth way more alive than dead. He's being tortured and ransomed with the rest.
Bolton has a stiffy.

Posted by: Anton Worter | Oct 10, 2018 7:22:41 PM | 65

Kashooggi talks as an US operative.


Kashoogi is said to oppose the war in Yemen. That is a fantasy. He wants the 'fanatic' Houthis
to be crushed and the USA or the French to invade and hand Yemen to the Saudis. The guy
accuses Iran to be 'sectarian'
The guy is certainly a big loss for the USA but not to anyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3lqwoZeCA

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 10, 2018 7:24:34 PM | 66

Saudi Arabia is a mafia family masquerading as a country!

Posted by: Dick | Oct 10, 2018 7:26:00 PM | 67

Lochern @60--

Billy Holiday was quite a woman and very perceptive. She also wrote God Bless the Child as
an explanatory song, somewhat similar to Strange Fruit. Too few know either unless they're
Jazz fans, and even fewer know their meaning and context. Your words convey a powerful yet
mostly hidden truth--the lynching now replaced by bullets.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2018 7:26:45 PM | 68

@ karlofi

Thank you very much karlofi. I have always figured you as quite a deep guy. I am just good at
sort of language.

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 10, 2018 7:41:48 PM | 69

Peter Schmidt @53: As Khashoggi was an IS supporter, IS will revenge his murder.

This is my view too. The only logic that I see here in the Khashoggi drama is enticing IS to
conduct attacks on Turkey.

If Erdogan is working with Putin, then these are revenge attacks. But if Erdogan is working
against Putin, then he needs such attacks to demonstrate that he is NOT working with the
'Assad must go!' Coalition.

And so, this news item is interesting: Erdogan now says that Turkey will stay in Syria until
elections are held. Doesn't Turkey's refusal to leave Syria work in favor of the 'Assad must go!'
Coalition? Didn't the Putin-Erdogan Sochi Agreement envision renewed operations to liberate
Idlib starting December 15th?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 10, 2018 7:44:23 PM | 70

U.S. Intelligence Had A 'Duty To Warn' Khashoggi? Their only duty is to themselves. Phillip
Marshall wrote a book called the The Big Bamboozle where, as a 767 pilot and former black
ops pilot, he concluded that it was impossible to fly those jets like that based on their training.
He went on to connect the dots to the Saudis and the Bush NEOCON clan. His whole family
including the family dog was shot dead and the books were all purchased off the market by
guess who? It was declared a suicide and murder.
As this fellow Khashoggi was probably under heavy surveillance by multiple intelligence
agencies it would have been difficult to hit him in the wild. It is like the old Henny Youngman
joke that even my tails have tails. Killing him, carving him up, vacuum sealing the body parts
in bags, and splitting them up in multiple diplomatic pouches makes perfect sense.

Whether that happened or not is pure speculation. Maybe the video will hit U Tube someday.

Posted by: dltravers | Oct 10, 2018 7:53:33 PM | 71

Erdogan made that statement just after Syrian Parliamentary elections. So much tosh!

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2018 7:57:30 PM | 72

@ RJPJR - 61

We could write all night on this, it's the black hole of rabbit holes that sucks in all other rabbit
holes. It will take you to the Yemenise Somali basin and KSA's insurgence to plant a Saudi oil
flags offshore, why UK and USA are outbidding each other to supply hardware to a (currently)
bankrupt regime. Cyprus, Syria, Iran Iraq Iq cetera - its the Elephant and the great game which
the west is currently loosing. So operation "Syria" is being relocated.

A personal "By The Way"


If there was a serious action to address the 1.5ºC ceiling issue - CocaCola (and all their
copycats) would've been banned and shut down years ago- we'd all be adding coffee to
sparkling water in our own kitchens!!! The whole supply chain resources & infrastructure
consumed in order to produce canned sugar water is in itself an outrage. The weight of
achieving a 1.5ºC ceiling - which in the majority is bourne by the consumer - will never
happen. Yes IPCC's a puppet show, and Carbon Tax is about something else alltogether. As we
live on a giant spinning perpetual motion machine, there are many ways to achieve "infinite"
energy. The main reason we don't have it is with abundant energy money becomes redundant.

Posted by: DAVID POWELL | Oct 10, 2018 8:00:32 PM | 73

So The Senate is calling for the application of the Magnitsky Act in this case, basically
sanctions on those in SA deemed responsible. Lot of assets which can be seized in US from all
these rich Saudis. Who gets first dibs on the real estate and yachts? Trump?

You know its a Deep State operation when they move so quickly in a bipartisan fashion.

Whats the likely reaction from Saudi Arabia?. Pull out of assets from US and bursting
equity/teal estate bubbles, reducing oil production to bump up prices, accepting non USD for
oil purchases to crash the dollar, creating hyper inflation and forcing the Fed to expedite
interest rate increases?

Stay tuned. Trump Global Fake News Network will be right back

Posted by: Pft | Oct 10, 2018 8:13:44 PM | 74

Meanwhile Donald blames the Fed for today's crash on the DOW. Nothing to do with him
slapping sanctions and tariffs on all and sundry.
Posted by: dh | Oct 10, 2018 8:31:45 PM | 75

EXCLUSIVE: Missing journalist is ALIVE and being held captive in Saudi Arabia after being
spirited out of Turkey in a private jet, claims source close to the kingdom's royal family

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6257823/Missing-journalist-ALIVE-held-captive-
Saudi-Arabia.html

Posted by: Elfy | Oct 10, 2018 9:20:58 PM | 76

The body won't turn up because a forensics expert was part of the team to ensure there's no
trace of it left to turn up.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 7:09:57 PM | 58

inventive...you oughta be in movies

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 10:16:16 PM | 77

Elfy@74

Still no evidence. With talk of sanctions over his “alleged” murder his “alleged” well being
could be just to negate such an action. If he is alive it should be able to be easily proven. If so
negotiations are surely in progress for an exchange

Us sends Gulen to Erdogan, Khashoggi back to his fiance and Bezos WaPo, Brunson to US and
Saudis get the go ahead for 200 dollars a barrel oil next year and no sanctions

Posted by: Pft | Oct 10, 2018 10:16:41 PM | 78

Posted by: Circe | Oct 10, 2018 7:20:08 PM | 62

i do read english...make sure you write it!

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 10:25:05 PM | 79

@76
'Still no evidence. With talk of sanctions over his “alleged” murder his “alleged” well being
could be just to negate such an action. If he is alive it should be able to be easily proven. If so
negotiations are surely in progress for an exchange'

theres no proof of anything, if hes dead, alive or gone fishing

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 10:25:57 PM | 80

71 A BTW TOT Response, and Not to Hijack This Not-Dead Khashoggi Thread

Two followups. The US Navy examined whether 'renewable' (sic) fuels (ethanol is energy
negative, so this must be biodiesel) would be do-able. At the time I was a Navy contractor, so
got to read some of these studies. It turns out the Pentagon would have to burn the entire US
soy, canola and sunflower seed oil production to fuel it's fleet and war operations at 800 bases
around the globe. We could achieve the 2050 goals simply by dialing the Pentagon down by
15%.

Then in a related study, the value of the sequestered carbon in the 35% of human food simply
wasted in the supply chain, exceeds by a full order of magnitude the carbon emitted by the
daily commute. We could achieve 2050 carbon sequestration goals simply by burying all the
food we know nobody is going to eat. Wait! the greens will shriek. We already bury it! We'll,
that's not entirely true. We let a lot of it rot. We convert a lot of it to 'hydrolyzed vegetable
protein' then feed it to our pets and our children. If we just buried all agricultural waste and all
waste food and all treated sewage, and let the carbon be re-sequestered by next year's crops,
again and again. if we just did what soil science tells us we must do, or lose the tilth our lives
depend on, if we just plowed our waste food back into the earth, we could meet the 2050 goals,
in a single year.

But we won't. You can't massively tax farmers and garbagemen, and you can't create a supra-
governmental Carbon Catholic on Wall Street by plowing waste food and sewage back into the
earth, and solving the 'crisis' in a single year. And you sure can't the Pentagon!

Thom Hartmann on his 'Liberal' (sic) radio show tipped his Deep State Carbon Catholic hand
today, demanding a $400 a ton Federal carbon tax!! For what? For what, Thom? Any tax is
illegal unless it provides something to its citizens.
Most Federal taxes provide nothing in return! A carbon tax provides nothing but governmental
regulation, religious hysteria and lip service! Where will those $100B's of our last life savings
disappear to?! To the same Federal lock box where Trump's 25% trade tax is disappearing.

A giant Corporate:State slush Fund!

Posted by: Anton Worter | Oct 10, 2018 11:00:39 PM | 81

I've nothing directly relevant to add to this intriguing thread. However, it does seem that the
president of China has gone missing.

/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CBS News -- October 6, 2018 -- Interpol asks China for information on its missing president
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/interpol-asks-china-for-information-on-its-missing-president-
meng-hongwei-2018-10-06/

PARIS -- Interpol has made a formal request to China for information about its missing
Chinese president who seemingly vanished on a trip home. The agency said in a statement it
"looks forward to an official response from China's authorities to address concerns over the
president's well-being."
\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: blues | Oct 10, 2018 11:03:51 PM | 82

@80
thats how public misinformation begins
' president of China has gone missing.'

you mean president of INTERPOL whos chinese

Posted by: brian | Oct 10, 2018 11:11:06 PM | 83

=>> brian | Oct 10, 2018 11:11:06 PM | 81

Duh. Yeah it looks like you're correct.

I wonder why they wrote it that way. It wouldn't appear to serve well as propaganda. Probably
the editors are on cocaine. (WTF?)

Posted by: blues | Oct 10, 2018 11:42:52 PM | 84

I will now look forward to Eliot Higgins letting his Bellingcat "collaborators" loose on all this
juicy open-source data...

… oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot.

Higgins doesn't "do" anything that would cast a bad light on a Western ally... my bad...

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 10, 2018 11:55:30 PM | 85

"Turkish intelligence had obtained a video of the killing, made by the Saudis to prove that it
had occurred"

I am (slightly) curious about that proposition: why video the murder to "prove it occurred"
when they take a severed head with them back to Saudi Arabia?

Isn't that proof enough?

Man, aren't some people hard to please...

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 11, 2018 12:01:32 AM | 86

"Another thought: Is Khashoggi worth mourning given he essentially was a Daesh promoter
and abettor? Just how was he different from any other headchopper? Personally, I shed no tears
that he's likely been made into a trinket for MbS."

I dunno what to say to this without feeling a bit hypocritical, when I was a young fella I
earnestly believed that 'fighting the good fight' as I thought we were doing was the most
important element of fixing the world.
Without going into too many details, and yes anecdotal evidence is meaningless - except for the
reality that most humans make most decisions on what they have seen and how they 'feel' about
stuff, I had gone overseas in the hope of joining an effort to stymy the growth of imperialism.
After what I considered back then an inordinately long time wandering around a town whose
outlying regions were part of the struggle with indigenous populations being forced to
'modernise' at the behest of a central government comprised of toadies to amerika, I eventually
hooked up with a group who were resisting.

What we mostly did was get assistance to communities that were being pressured to allow the
encroachment of the central government.
Most of us had ancient weapons but really they were more for show than go. There was no help
from any of the at the time socialist states - no ak's for us, just ancient carbines of ww2 vintage.
Three members of our group were waylaid by the central government's special forces under the
control of amerikan advisors. They were executed on the spot and left to be found to 'send a
message'.
I had a couple of comrades I had gotten close to as they had pretty good english skills when
most of the indigenous population did not. They were really upset at what had happened - one
of those murdered was a relation of one of them.
We wanted revenge and we got it, caught the 'team' out on patrol, killed a mob of em including
one 'advisor'.

Everybody happy. Until the village my comrades came from was literally wiped off the map. It
was close to the regional center which is why many from the village had joined us as they were
watching their culture, traditions even their language get wiped out. AFAIK everyone in the
village was killed in payback for our payback.

Now we wanted real revenge, until the group's leader, an old fella who had worked at the local
college turned up and asked what we thought the end of going after all the central government
troops and amerikan mercs would be? We said, "easy we win"

He got pretty heated - had no idea what about other than he was shouting, & I had never seen
the bloke angry. I asked a comrade with some english why the boss was upset - the leader had
told us that even if we could get enough support to be able to take on the entire central
government plus imperial assistance and actually succeed - which was a real long shot, we
would still have lost because we'd become that which we were fighting.

The group was told to pull its head in and get back to assisting the people. We were really
angry at the time and I shot through soon after - now I recognize if we had upped the ante I
would have died or worse there, and little or anything in terms of central government takeover
would have changed. But many of the language groups that had been endangered still survive
today thanks to work done by our group & others like it to make sure they did.

Put simply if we all give up our humanity - which includes caring about any human who has
been butchered as cruelly as Kashoggi was, we may as well surrender now - nothing can hope
to change for the better.

Yes Kashoggi said and wrote things that showed bugger all humanity inside him - so what?
Should our response be to prove the Kashoggis are correct in their description of all of us who
oppose the slaughter in Yemen, that we are butcher murderers and/or supporters of butchery
and murder in league with apostates traitors or whatever?

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 11, 2018 12:06:05 AM | 87

@74
That title is misleading, sensational bullshet. First of all the Saudi Ambassador to the U.S.
already stated that Khashoggi was neither k.illed nor detained by Saudi authorities and such
claims are baseless. Second, if it were true, please explain how they slipped him past airport
Security? Third, if he was detained they'd produce a real live video to appease world
condemnation. The story's a red herring to confuse everyone and there's nothing new in that
article.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 11, 2018 1:43:52 AM | 88

@85 Debsisdead

I agree with the principle you dedicated your story to telling: "we would still have lost because
we'd become that which we were fighting."

The Buddha said the same. He said that no anger or violence could be defeated with anger or
violence. But this was not a "moral" valuation of things. This was an instruction based on what
works and what doesn't work. We can struggle against this truth all we want, but the Buddha
himself advised us that this was a law of the universe that could not be violated and result in
success.

If we become what the enemy is, then the enemy has won. And the enemy is originally tricked
into being that way only in order to draw others down into that same way of being. For it is
what the enemy IS, that is the true enemy.

So it's a wonderful point you make, Debsisdead, and it carries the endorsement not only of our
wisdom teachings but also our own individual wisdom, that has long suspected this to be true.

And thus it is, that a direct response or frontal attack against the enemy often may not be as
good as simply remaining true to principle and simply going around.

~~

Let us be clear, however, that none of this speaks of non-action against the bad guys.
Sometimes they simply have to be stopped, and even the Buddha in one of his stories showed
us that this can be done both compassionately and decisively.

It's important to note the distinction that, not becoming like the enemy does not preclude
destroying the enmity, or even the enemy.

But these are advanced choices, and wisdom is called for, lest we err.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 11, 2018 2:07:52 AM | 89

@58 "The body won't turn up because a forensics expert was part of the team to ensure there's
no trace of it left to turn up."

The story I've just read suggest that the Saudi's forgot that the drains don't stop at the consulate
boundaries, and that this would be the first place the Turkish authorities would check if they
suspected foul play.
Quite a bit of blood in the human body, apparently....

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 11, 2018 3:02:51 AM | 90

The Trump government will either create a fake story to cover up the murder of Khashoggi or it
will just keep quiet.

Compare this to the US government raising hell against China over the arrest and imprisonment
of Liu XiaoBo. Even the

medical care given to LXB was criticised.

US hypocrisy is incomparable.

Posted by: chan pooi hoong | Oct 11, 2018 3:19:11 AM | 91

They are already changing the story - like with this Skripal-hoax:
First fiancee Hatice Cengiz waited for Khashoggi UNTIL MIDNIGHT in front of the consulate
- and now this all is changed. See my comment:
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2018/10/khashoggis-disappearance-new-twist-
in.html?showComment=1539206978920#c8008171311250477222

Posted by: Joerg | Oct 11, 2018 3:32:40 AM | 92

Posted by: Joost | Oct 10, 2018 2:48:45 PM | 17

The Yemen war is an Obama era legacy.

Mm hm. Just like Obama "inherited" Bush's wars and therefore somehow couldn't end them, so
Trump now inherits Obama's wars and somehow can't end them. And round and round it goes.

We see how toxic the partisans of both halves of the Corporate One-Party are, and how one
hand always washes the other.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 11, 2018 5:11:30 AM | 93

Posted by: Circe | Oct 11, 2018 1:43:52 AM | 86

please explain how they slipped him past airport Security

It certainly can be done. I don't recall exactly how the Zionists smuggled Eichmann out of
Argentina, but they did it.

Posted by: Russ | Oct 11, 2018 5:13:04 AM | 94

"The assault on Yemen is a war over the oil in the Empty Quarter" said someone above
Very true. Same for the kidnappings that ruined the tourist industry back then before 9/11.
Sponsored by KSA. Then after the Twin Towers, no more need, no more tourists whatsoever
and enough anti-Western excitment among the tribes.

Posted by: Mina | Oct 11, 2018 5:24:35 AM | 95

i wonder if Erdogan is waiting for Trump and co to commit to a big lie about this case and then
use the video to either embarrass them or as leverage for easing pressure on Turkey's financial
woes... might we soon see a sudden surge in appetite for Turkish Lira in global markets..?

Posted by: EtTuBrute | Oct 11, 2018 7:09:08 AM | 96

The Daily Beast is reporting that Trump will not cut off arms sales to Saudi Arabia because of
the Khashoggi disappearence (https://thebea.st/2OjD28X?source=twitter&via=desktop via
@thedailybeast):

"..........Trump said he has a call arranged with Khashoggi’s fiancée, who has appealed to the president
for help. But Trump indicated he will not be blocking arms sales to the kingdom, eliminating a possible
punitive measure. The president told Fox News on Wednesday night: “I think that would be hurting us.
We have jobs, we have a lot of things happening in this country.” He went on: “I think that that would
be a very, very tough pill to swallow for our country. I mean, you’re affecting us and, you know, they’re
always quick to jump that way.”........"

Trump's foreign policy appears to be similar to China's (ideal) policy of non-interference in the
internal affairs of countries they do business with (like Sudan during the Darfur genocide). Of
course, with Trump that "ideal" only applies to allies.

Posted by: craigsummers | Oct 11, 2018 7:24:16 AM | 97

@47 Jen

Jamal Khashoggi was sent to the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul from the Saudi Embassy
in Washington DC.

Hal C

Posted by: Hal C | Oct 11, 2018 7:57:42 AM | 98

But if Kashoggi reappears the Saudis seem exonerated and no one is watching Yemen.

Posted by: joe b | Oct 11, 2018 8:24:19 AM | 99

The Saudis categorically denied they k.illed or detained Khashoggi although all signs point to
the fact that the got rid of him in the most brutal way. This ambivalence gives Trump a way out
not to impose sanctions. That's why they probably got rid of every speck of proof, although
someone mentioned checking the drain system. Trump is definitely not in a rush to get at the
truth. If Iran had done this; there would be he'll to pay right away.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 11, 2018 8:41:17 AM | 100


October 11, 2018

Saudis Must Cough Up Billions To Settle Khashoggi Case

The Khashoggi case, discussed here, will be moved off the news pages even faster than
assumed.

A CNN correspondent just tweeted this:

Alexander Marquardt @MarquardtA - 16:44 utc - 11 Oct 2018

Erdogan spox: "At the request of Saudi Arabia, a joint working group will be established to uncover the
events surrounding Jamal Khashoggi."

Translation:

Erdogan spox: "Our Sultan received a sufficient down payment to start negotiating about the burial of
the case."

Prediction:

Erdogan will use the 'joint working group' to squeeze as much as he can out of the Saudis. (A deal may
even include a political settlement of the Saudi blockade of Erdogan's sponsor Qatar.)

Yesterday 22 Senators signed a request to Trump to investigate the Khashoggi case under the
Global Magnitsky Act. The Trump administration has 120 days to finish the investigation and
to report back to the Senate. Any person or organization found to be involved in the kidnapping
and possible murder of Khashoggi could then come under U.S. sanctions.

Those 120 days are the time-frame for Erdogan to use the thumbscrews the Saudi fuckup in its
consulate in Istanbul handed him. The Saudi clown prince Mohammad bin Salman will get
squeezed like never before. It will cost him billions to purchase the video of the Khashoggi
killing the Turkish government claims to have.

Erdogan will not be the only one to profit from the issue. The Senate move gives Trump
enormous leverage over the Saudis. He will use it.

Trump loudly claimed that he personally closed a $110 billion deal in which the Saudis
purchase more useless weapons. There never was a 'deal', only some non-binding letters of
intent.

The Saudis have been reluctant to follow through. They did not pony up the $15 billion for the
U.S. made THAAD missile defense systems Trump 'sold' them and even talked with Russia
about buying the much cheaper and better S-400:

According to The Washington Post, among the agreements still up in the air is the $15 billion purchase
of the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense System [THAAD], made by US defense contractor Lockheed
Martin.
In a sign of Trump's continued emphasis on arms sales as a component of US foreign policy,
White House senior adviser and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner personally intervened with
Lockheed to secure a 20% discount for the air-defense system.

Yet Riyadh let a September 30 deadline to wrap up that purchase come and go, according to
The Post.

The new sales-pitch is easy to see. Either MbS buys the THAAD and other useless systems
(without discount), or the investigation Trump has to pursue will reluctantly find MbS involved
in the Khashoggi case. That would put MbS and his assets within the U.S. under sanctions. The
Saudi King would have to replace MbS as clown king and successor.

Others will also try to gain political profit from the case. Netanyahoo will request that the
investigation under the Global Magnitsky Act finds that Iran is guilty of the murder. Others will
want to blame Russia. Was it a GRU cyberattack that hindered the Saudi consulates CCTV
from recording the events while Qasem Soleimani slipped into the Saudi consulate and
novichoked Khashoggi?

That might sound far fetched or even crazy but we have been here before. When in December
1988 Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie it was quite obvious that it was a revenge act
for the July 1988 murder of 290 people on board of Iran Air flight 655 by the U.S. navy. But
the investigation was fudged and in the end it was politically most convenient to blame Libya's
Ghaddafi for the Pan Am disaster even while he had nothing to do with either incident.

But whatever.

Deals will be made and the case will be buried. If the deals are good enough, several dozen
billions will be required, the U.S. might even allow Mohammad bin Salman to stay in his
position.

But King Salman, or some Saudi citizens, may well find that the various crazy endeavors MbS
tends to launch - the war on Yemen, the Qatar blockade, the Khashoggi assassination - are
becoming way too costly for the country. A simple unlucky home accident could solve that
problem.

Posted by b on October 11, 2018 at 03:03 PM | Permalink

Comments

If Turkey has it that video tape could well be the most valuable such tape there has been to
date. No doubt there are multiple copies for security reasons.

Posted by: JohninMK | Oct 11, 2018 3:12:50 PM | 1

"Any person or organization found to be involved in the kidnapping and possible murder of
Khashoggi could then come under U.S. sanctions."

Never hatchi tomodachi, although, DJT might further enrich himself behind the scenes, and off
the grid. But really pressure the Saudis for what? A new orb to dance around?
Posted by: ben | Oct 11, 2018 3:33:03 PM | 2

The 'Global Magnitsky Act' vape...


Bill BROWDERs body double, dressed as outrage/
another pretender. another pretence.
Magnitsky: empire tax thief accountant becomes 'Bills lawyer'
martyr to truth.

Posted by: rem | Oct 11, 2018 3:42:15 PM | 3

Things between Bezos and MbS will never be the same again.

Posted by: bjd | Oct 11, 2018 4:13:08 PM | 4

Who?

Posted by: jo6pac | Oct 11, 2018 4:18:03 PM | 5

I think Trump will keep MBS in place and keep squeezing until US companies own Aramco.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 11, 2018 4:25:17 PM | 6

I hope that this plays out so that the war against poor Yemen comes to an end....cynical isn't it
that the saudis will have to pay out perhaps tens of billions for the murder of one man, and it
still costs them nothing to have killed or been responsible for the deaths of perhaps hundreds of
thousands in Yemen, the poorest of all the Arab countries.
such is the world we live in

(when I saw the list of the signatories I noticed that none of the senators from NY or CA had
signed on, especially notable to me about the repulsive Feinstein and Schumer)

Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 11, 2018 4:27:48 PM | 7

Erdy is wielding a dangerous threat. MBS has enough idiocy to seek revenge on Erdy and that
could benefit the world and the people of Syria too. Time to dig two graves it seems.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 11, 2018 4:29:39 PM | 8

Thanks B, the pieces are falling into their places.

To Pan Am Flight 103: 4-5 years ago i watched a documentation about it, with the usual
narrative. But some weeks ago i tried to learn some more pieces of the truth about it, and on
Wikipedia is a MSM/propaganda article like so often these days.
Has anyone some links to an unbiased account on the tragedy?

Thanks in advance!

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Oct 11, 2018 4:31:13 PM | 9


What Turkey does is neither here nor there, what the Americans do matters, and they have to be
careful, the deranged Saudi youngster could call their bluff, do a deal with Russia and other oil
exporting countries, begin the pricing of oil not in dollars but some synthetic currency, or the
Chinese renminbi. If he does that the role of the dollar as the reserve currency is over.

Posted by: Baron | Oct 11, 2018 4:31:53 PM | 10

#9

You mean the role of MBS would be over. We'd see a US invasion with Aramco then gifted
into Israeli/US hands, with another Saudi prince willing to give it all legitimacy...

Posted by: Castellio | Oct 11, 2018 4:44:27 PM | 11

I wonder if Bill Gates and Oprah still find the Clown Prince their favorite head lopper, child
rapist and liver eater

Posted by: Anunnaki | Oct 11, 2018 4:46:21 PM | 12

How much will Theresa May ask Putin for the CCTV video showing Ruslan Boshirov and
Alexander Petrov spraying novichok on Sergei Skripal's door handle which the British
government claims not to have?

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 11, 2018 5:05:52 PM | 13

Its being reported a deal to release Andrew Brunson has been reached between US and Turkey.
This could be unrelated but as I said in other thread it might be related to the Khashoggi event.
Question is what Turkey gets in return from the US which no doubt will come from the Saudis.
In other words, Khashoggi event has been staged to provide a cover so the US will not be seen
as paying for a hostage. Saudis concede something to Turkey and it will be written off as
compensation for kidnapping or even murdering Khashoggi. Could the US have agreed to
sacrifice Khashoggi for Brunson?

Posted by: Pft | Oct 11, 2018 5:12:01 PM | 14

Christ was crucified because of the Russians. GRU and Putin conspired to poison him at the
Last Supper. The actual death on the Cross was staged to cover the poisoning.

"Highly Likely" Iran had a hand in it also. Judas was a 'Persian', of course, and would have
been a Shiite if he hadn't been suicidal and lived another 800 years or so.

Bellingcat is due with the official report shortly. Stay tuned.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Oct 11, 2018 5:13:17 PM | 15

Current, unflattering sentiments about the actors in what some are calling the "US government
soap opera." One reminder is the arms sales are $300 Billion, not 110.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11, 2018 5:15:53 PM | 16


@8: For an objective discussion, with detailed analysis of the forensic evidence, of how and
where the Lockerbie bomb was placed I recommend the book 'Adequately explained by
stupidity?' by M.Kerr. The author (wisely in my view) does not speculate on who might have
placed the bomb, although she makes it clear that it could not have been either of the Libyans
tried for the crime. The book is not perfect, as it lacks an index, but you can't have everything!

Posted by: Coldish | Oct 11, 2018 5:17:07 PM | 17

@Red Ryder (14)


"Bellingcat is due with the official report shortly. Stay tuned."

Correction:
The Wikipedia article will be penned by Jimmy 'Jimbo' Wales himself, from which Bellincat
and The Guardian will then quote.

Posted by: bjd | Oct 11, 2018 5:19:28 PM | 18

Posted by: Pft | Oct 11, 2018 5:12:01 PM | 13

It is hard to believe that Brunson was ever a real concern for USA. As far as "sanctions" that
are brewing, I do not expect much. After the election season in USA, at the latest, the focus will
be elsewhere.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 11, 2018 5:29:41 PM | 19

She's no friend of the Turks or Saudis, yet Sharmine Narwani isn't so quick to condemn what is
merely a different version of the Skripal frame-up complete with evidenceless pronouncements
by BigLie Media.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11, 2018 5:32:46 PM | 20

Excellent original (I assume) analysis, as usual.

Posted by: Protagonist | Oct 11, 2018 5:55:35 PM | 21

re: Lockerbie

Read this
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:The_Framing_of_al-Megrahi

originally published in 2009 here (but you must sign up):


https://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n18/gareth-peirce/the-framing-of-al-megrahi

Posted by: mauisurfer | Oct 11, 2018 5:55:53 PM | 22

Could Brunson be a beneficiary in this as the changed position by Turkey is hard to explain.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11, 2018 5:59:56 PM | 23


@Red Ryder (14)

Even Bellingcat beginning to be outed by the Independent

not seen till now though is any questioning of Bellingcat’s credentials in mainstream media. So let me
hand you over, without further ado and with hearty if surprised approval, to Mary Dejevsky: not
known as a Kremlin stooge or Putin troll. Yet here she is, in today’s Independent, asking in all sincerity
and with admirable bluntness just WTF is Bellingcat?

Posted by: jsb | Oct 11, 2018 6:00:34 PM | 24

Re: Lockerbie
Here is a previous article from 2007 also from LRB:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n12/hugh-miles/inconvenient-truths

Posted by: mauisurfer | Oct 11, 2018 6:07:33 PM | 25

Not that hypocrisy by BigLie media's anything new, but their concern for Khashoggi compared
to their mutedness over Assange is something to behold--the loss of a government tool's
bemoaned whereas the censoring of one of the world's most important if not vital journalist
doesn't raise a whisper of protest. Of course, no where is their mention of the total lack of
evidence a la Skripal and Russiagate with all suppositions and presumptions being treated as
proven facts. Yes, Khashoggi is more aptly described as a polemicist than a journalist whose
importance pales to that of Assange. Further examples of BigLie Media hypocrisy are revealed
in the linked article.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11, 2018 6:23:07 PM | 26

@Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Oct 11, 2018 4:31:13 PM | 8

re Lockerbie

This is excellent: Lockerbie - The Flight From Justice Paul Foot - Private Eye Special Report

A dying ember of investigative journalism in the UK, written by a good man no longer with us.

Posted by: Ross | Oct 11, 2018 6:36:17 PM | 27

Turks have leaked the audio?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-11/us-intel-sources-say-khashoggi-murder-
possible-rendition-gone-wrong

Posted by: Anunnaki | Oct 11, 2018 7:12:27 PM | 28

@19
I really like Sharmine, but on this one she's wrong and frankly I don't get why she's tweeting
exculpatory comments when MbS deserves to be dragged to the Hague only for his crimes in
Yemen. Actually, in his case the Hague should implement the death penalty. What can be
worse than what he's doing to millions of children in Yemen???

It's one thing to mistrust the media, but it's another to deny the obvious truth and give that sado-
psychotic criminal a millimetre of credibility.

15 Saudis including a Forensics expert fly in just before Khashoggi is set to enter the
Consulate. He never exits. His fiancée is waiting - no Khashoggi (Khashoggi even told her to
call the police if he didn't return in a reasonable time span); black van waiting at the back; black
van goes to Consul's house into an underground garage; 15 Saudis leave hours later for airport
and depart on same two jets via two different routes. Which facts is she looking at??? They
look pretty damning to me! If the Saudis were holding him alive, they would show proof of life
because otherwise I'm counting on well-deserved hell breaking loose on them! Except for
Trump and Kushner who have millions and maybe a billion reasons to bury the truth and save
their ass! Kushner 666 indeed!

If I didn't know better I'd suspect she's a Zionist double agent, but I know better and on this
Saudi crime, SO SHOULD SHE.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 11, 2018 7:23:58 PM | 29

13

Brunson - Pence swap for making Khashoggi sanctions go away. Mossad-CIA extortion at its
finest. No doubt MbS will also agree not to dump $T worth of junk Treasuries.

Posted by: Anton Worter | Oct 11, 2018 7:29:14 PM | 30

MbS may well be privy to the Trump Piss Tapes. If so, MbS may remain in good accord.

Posted by: fast freddy | Oct 11, 2018 7:31:40 PM | 31

A working group or committee is a sure way to massage the message to suit a particular
narrative. History is replete with examples. In fact, many key characters are still living and
available for such dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

Posted by: fast freddy | Oct 11, 2018 7:36:36 PM | 32

re Karlof1 @25 "...but their concern for Khashoggi compared to their mutedness over Assange
is something to behold."

The MSM is as transparent as glass for those with eyes to see. All of them singing from the
same song sheet across the world. The Internet enables us all to see this - if we choose. We
might not be able to see man behind the curtain directly, but we can see the baton strokes of a
"single mind" directing the symphony of deception.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Oct 11, 2018 7:47:39 PM | 33


AP @32--

Yea, that's been apparent since Nov 1963, if not before.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11, 2018 8:03:49 PM | 34

A video of the killing mean prior knowledge.

Posted by: Alpi | Oct 11, 2018 8:38:31 PM | 35

It's hard to believe that they would film a killing.

Posted by: jiri | Oct 11, 2018 8:59:44 PM | 36

#7 That's a great forking point. It's disgusting how human lives can be differentiated in value so
much.

Posted by: worldblee | Oct 11, 2018 10:02:46 PM | 37

To Pan Am Flight 103: 4-5 years ago i watched a documentation about it, with the usual narrative. But
some weeks ago i tried to learn some more pieces of the truth about it, and on Wikipedia is a
MSM/propaganda article like so often these days. Has anyone some links to an unbiased account on
the tragedy? Thanks in advance! Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Oct 11, 2018 4:31:13 PM |
8

"For years disinformation specialists have peddled a giant lie about the crash of Pan Am 103 at
Lockerbie. Time and time again the media has hysterically regurgitated the flawed and impossible
legend that Maid of the Seas was brought to earth by a bomb triggered by a barometrically-activated
timer, hidden in a radio in a samsonite suitcase. A barometric timer set for 10,000 feet altitude, which
miraculously failed to activate when the Air Malta Flight it was allegedly planted on climbed through
10,000 feet after departing Valetta for Frankfurt, and again when the Pam Am feeder Boeing 727 to
London climbed through 10,000 feet after departing Frankfurt."
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:The_Bomb_Trigger_on_Pam_Am_103
Copyright Joe Vialls, May 2000

Posted by: Guerrero | Oct 11, 2018 10:21:47 PM | 38

On the previous thread I've linked a Hurriyet article @15 that stated Khashoggi was wearing a
black Apple watch.

What is curious is that an Apple watch has two microphones built in and since Khashoggi was
wearing one, that could have been the bug used to record the incident (one that is always near
him and could have recorded the whole episode). That would also be prudent of Khashoggi to
carry one into the trip to the embassy. That would also explain how the US intelligence could
have figured out what happened so quickly, instead of the story about the Consulate being
bugged by the Turks (a smokescreen) -- which would require bugs seemingly everywhere in
order to figure what happened (as he was moved from room to room as is being reported).
Posted by: jsb | Oct 11, 2018 10:31:27 PM | 39

@19 karlof1

Thanks for the link. Sharmine is trying to be a journalist, and I applaud her for it. Everyone else
seems to have abandoned this attempt.

Her point of view highlights the fact that with each incident like this, and Skripal before it, the
requirement to present proof and evidence, prior to verdict, simply recedes further and further
away.

That's the real crime happening here. But the critical view has left the room.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 11, 2018 10:38:02 PM | 40

All this kinda' begs the question; Why would Khashoggi, a seemingly intelligent journalist,
walk into the Saudi embassy voluntarily? What am I missing?

Posted by: ben | Oct 11, 2018 10:54:38 PM | 41

It's highly likely that Turkey does have a visual and/or audio record of every thing that happens
inside the Saudi embassy, 24/7, including the Kashoggi incident. Books like Spy Catcher et al,
tend to confirm that all countries bug and spy on each other's embassies using cutting-edge tech
and tricks.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 12, 2018 12:19:16 AM | 42

In Putin's Q & A following the recent Energy Summit, he referred to prostitution as the
"second-oldest profession" - after spying.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 12, 2018 12:24:18 AM | 43

US and Turkey both wants to benefit out of this incident. Probably colluded together to
blackmail MbS.

Posted by: AG17 | Oct 12, 2018 1:08:22 AM | 44

DontBelieveEitherPropaganda @8

In The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror, which bombing is a modern
template for many false flags that follow, i.e., a drill goes live, the author follows a myriad of
threads, including the fact that CIA intelligence officers were on Pan Am 103 ("Inconvenient
Truths" and "Lockerbie: The Flight From Justice" mention this was well). The contention is
that they were returning to Langley to present evidence that a rogue CIA group was running
drugs through Lebanon. It sez here the rogues managed to place a bomb on the plane in
Germany.

Posted by: pogohere | Oct 12, 2018 1:20:42 AM | 45


ben 40 "Why would Khashoggi, a seemingly intelligent journalist, walk into the Saudi embassy
voluntarily?"

I have also wondered about that. Perhaps he thought the US was covering his back or perhaps
he thought MBS wouldn't be as blatant as to knock him off when there were witnesses to him
going into the embassy.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 12, 2018 1:20:50 AM | 46

jiri 35

Haven't you seen the ISIS snuff movies.. No difference between Saudi's and ISIS other than US
proclaims Saudi an ally and ISIS an enemy, notwithstanding that ISIS only exists to further US
ambitions.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 12, 2018 1:31:22 AM | 47

I have a theory that the more lurid the death description, the less likely it is to be true.

The many deaths of North Korean notables is one example e.g.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10837897/Executed-Kim-Jong-
Un-girlfriend-reappears-on-North-Korea-television.html

And of course

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/wtf/murdered-ukrainian-journalist-walks-into-
press-conference/news-story/822ffad01230475c25f929735477bc06

So to tie this murder down, someone needs to produce actual body parts (entirely possible even
if he's still alive) or have him walk into a press conference.

Much as I despise the Wahhabis there is simply not enough evidence that he was actually
murdered - just lots of innuendo.

Posted by: Charles Wood | Oct 12, 2018 3:02:16 AM | 48

Somehow, judging from my armchair ;), this "killing" seems unlikely to me... I mean, suppose
the saudis actually want to get rid of the guy, you'd think that literally every other location and
method would be more appropriate than an embassy and his girlfriend waiting outside. Seems
more likely that he's been kidnapped and will be traded?

Posted by: radiator | Oct 12, 2018 3:58:21 AM | 49

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