oo. ow Secarnro witness. ***WITNESS EXCUSED*** [WHEREUPON, the witness was duly sworn, after which the following proceedings were had: ] DAMIAN MICHAEL PATTON, having been duly sworn was examined and testified as follows: cr A BY MR. WROBLEWSKI : Q If you could just spell your last name for the Court Reporter? P-a-t-t-o-n. Mr. Patton, how old are you right now? Twenty. ‘And by whom are you employed? United States Navy. How long have you worked for the United States Navy? Approximately two years. ‘And what do you do for the Navy? rorerearos I’m an operational specialist aboard the United States carrier "America." Q How long have you been aboard the "America"? A A little more than a year. Q I want to take you back to June 9th of 1990. Were you 29Se arn oa Wi 12 14 15 16 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 involved in the shooting at the West End Synagogue here in Nashville? A Yes, sir. Q Subsequent to that did you enter -- did you plead guilty in this court to charges relating to that synagogue shooting? A Yes, sir. Q And did you enter into a plea agreement with the Government in which you agreed to plead guilty to that charge? A Yes, sir. Q What’s your understanding of that agreement? A That for my testimony in the matter -- the outcome of the case that during my sentencing, they’1l be more lenient. Q Okay, did the plea agreement indicate that that -- your cooperation would be brought to the attention of the Judge? A Yes, sir. Q Was any specific sentence agreed upon by the Government? A No, sir. Q The sentence was to be determined by the Court? A Yes, sir. Q Do you know Jonathan David Brown? A Yes, sir. 30Do you see him here in the court? Yes, I do. Will you identify him for the Jury? Right there, sir. PPD > Dp MR. WROBLEWSKI: Your Honor, may the Record reflect that the witness has identified Mr. Brown, the defendant. Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) How do you know Mr. Brown? A I met him about three years ago in Nashville, Tennessee. Q And what were the circumstances? A Some of the Skinheads that I’d met introduced me to him. Q When you say "Skinheads," what do you mean? A Some of the White youths I have met who believe in White Supremacy. Q Were you involved with the Skinheads at that time? A Yes, I was. Q How did you first become involved with the Skinheads? A I was in Los Angeles, California, and I was about 15 years old and due to family problems at home, I was a troubled youth and had gone from certain kind of radical groups and ended up coming together with the Skinheads. a Okay, why don’t you describe just briefly what makes a person a "Skinhead"? A It’s basically just a White youth who adopts White 31Searnoaarsnon = 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Supremacy views, who believes that the White race is an endangered species. We adopt national socialism, old Nazi Germany beliefs. We believe that the Blacks and the Jews are taking over America and it’s our job to take America back for the White race. Q Would you say that -- strike that. Were the Skinheads part of a larger movement? You’ve described already something called the "White Supremacists Movement"? A Yes, sir. Q And how were they part of that movement? A The Skinheads are really the foot soldiers for groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations. Q What do you mean when you say "foot soldier"? A We were out there on the streets causing problems and making the headlines in the news where the older groups like the Klan wasn’t really ever heard of anymore. And we were going out and causing the problems now. Q You said that you met Mr. Brown somewhere in the neighborhood of three years ago; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q Where did you meet him? A I don’t recall exactly where I met him. Qa Was it in -- do you recall what state you were in when you met him? A Yeah, I was in Tennessee, sir. 32Se 1" 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 21 22 23 24 25 And how did you get from California to Tennessee? With a man named Jesse Albert Johnson. ‘And what were the circumstances around that? > o> D Mr. Johnson was an older man. He ran an organization It was a White Supremacist organiza’ e Constitution from 1776 and he wanted ind also start a chapter called "Pace". ‘tion that wanted to reinstill th to move the organization out here al for the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan that was nationally based in Harrison, Arkansas. Q What specifically as part of the Constitution did he want to put back? A He wanted to put the part where @ Black man is only three-fifths of a man. Q And you mentioned that you met Jonathan Brown somewhere in the neighborhood of three years ago; is that right? A Yes, sir, I believe so. Q And could you describe for the Jury a little bit about how your relationship with Mr. Brown developed at that time? A At the time I first met him, he started preaching to me about Christian Identity and I was a little bit familiar with it. Q Well, why don’t we stop right there. What is "Christian Identity"? A "Christian Identity" is a Christian philosophy that a 33Seearnoaa 11 13 14 18 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 lot of the White Supremacists adopt. It believes that the White race is true Israel and not the Jews. Q Okay, and you also mentioned -- before we go back to how your relationship developed, you also mentioned the Ku Klux Klan. What is the Ku Klux Klan? A The Ku Klux Klan is an organization of White men that started in the late 1800’s, basically started after the slaves were freed. And today basically they’re more political and they’re out there trying to reinstill America of the 1800’s. Q Are there different factions of the Ku Klux Klan? A Yes, there are. Q What are those? A There’s about ‘a -- I don’t know how many but there are quite a few different Klans across America in every -- everywhere you go there’s always a different Klan. They’re all not the same. Was Mr. Brown affiliated with a particular Klan group? Q A Yes, sir. Q What group was he involved in? A The White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Q And what is special about the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? A They’re known as a more paramilitary group than other Klans, such as the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan of Harrison, 34Arkansas. Q You also mentioned that there was 4 group called the Aryan Nations? A Yes, sir. Q Could you describe a little bit about that for the Jury? A The Aryan Nations is a Christian organization of the White Supremacists movement. They’re like the church. Most people who are members of Aryan Nations believe in the Christian Identity philosophy. Q You were describing and I interrupted you Can you go back about how your relationship developed with Mr. Brown. to that a little bit? A Over the -- when I first met him over the next couple of months, it gradually -- he was talking to me, as I said before, about the religion and stuff and bringing me to more light about certain issues and at that time he had won over my trust and confidence and he wanted to help me out and he -- Iwas living at the time with Jesse Albert Johnson and he had me leave that situation and move into an apartment with his brother, Joseph Brown. Q And where was that apartment? A In Antioch, Tennessee. Q And who was paying for that apartment? A Myself, Joe with the help of Jonathan Brown. 35on ON = © oN o in Q Could you describe at that point when he was paying for your -- part of your apartment, what his financial condition was as best that you know? i it A I know that he was a Christian record producer tha’ made a couple of hundred thousand dollars at least a year. That was the best I know. Q All right. You -- how did your relationship with Mr. Brown continue to develop after that? A It just got stronger and stronger. He became more or less a father figure to me since I didn’t have a relationship with my father and I basically went everywhere his family did; I did everything that his family did. I was over at his house all the time. I became real close to his brother. Q How far was the apartment that you were living at from where Jonathan Brown was living? A I’d say about a hundred yards. Q What was Mr. Brown’s vision for the White Supremacists movement? A He thought that we need to instill the Christians of more the religious part of it but in a -- in like a para- military manner the way that it said in the Bible about when they used to use swords to take people’s heads off and stuff, that we should instill those. Q Okay, and specifically what did he do to try to see 36Se marINaan on Ww 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that that came about? A We talked about on numerous occasions the execution of Federal Judges, people who owned large newspapers, like the man who owns "The Tennessean" and the "Nashville Banner." Q What specifically happened -- NR. BROWN: Objection, Your Honor, this kind of response has nothing to do with the Indictment. It is out of the scope of evidence. It’s inflammatory, Rule 403 prohibits it. THE COURT: 1711 overrule the objection. Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) You described just a minute ago about a gentleman who’s the publisher of “The Tennessean"? A Yes, sir. Q What specifically happened with regard to Mr. Brown and you? . A We went to a reception or some hotel meeting and I believe it was at Vanderbilt, although I don’t recall exactly where it was, and we observed him as best we could for later on possibly executing him. Do you recall about when that was? No, sir. Who was present besides yourself? Myself and Jonathan Brown. Did Mr, Brown own a farm at some point? Yes, sir. 2 roror oO Where was that farm? 37Se meaN Dae wD In Pleasantville, Tennessee. What was the original purpose of that farm? It was going to be a para-military training camp. What did you do yourself at the farm? Built a house for him and trained with weapons. Did you ever purchase any weapons for Mr. Brown? > or DF DD Yes, sir. MR. BROWN: Objection, Your Honor; this is out of the scope of what I am charged with. This is Rules 103 and 104. It is an unalleged act. THE COURT: I will overrule the objection. Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) The question was, did you purchase guns for Mr. Brown? A Yes, sir. Q And describe that and when it occurred? A I was working at an apartment complex as a maintenance man and I met a man who had some weapons and sold weapons and I told Mr. Brown about it. Q What kind of weapons did Mr. Brown want to purchase? A Mac .10s. Q What is that? A It can be a semi-automatic or a fully automatic assault pistol. Qa What else did he want to purchase? A Rifles, sniper rifles specifically, and silencers for 38orn oan wn the Mac .10s. Q Did you purchase any weapons for Mr. Brown? A Yes, sir. Q You said you purchased it from a gentleman who you met at this apartment complex? A Yes, sir. Q Was he a licensed dealer? A Not that I know of. Q How did you go about purchasing the weapons and what did you purchase? A Mr. Brown gave me the amount of money I told him it was going to cost for the Mac .10, a Mac .11 and a +25 automatic pistol. Q I want to now take you to June the 9th of 1990. Do you recall that day? A Yes, sir. Q How did that day begin for you? A It began early in the morning. I went over to Jonathan Brown’s house and with his family and his brother and a lady named Kelly Sutherland we went down to Smyrna, Tennessee, to an Aryan Nations’ Congress meeting. Q Okay. At that time were you living in the apartment that you described that Mr. Brown was -- A Yes, sir. Q And so you walked over to Mr. Brown’s -- to Jonathan 39Se earN aaa e Brown’s apartment? A Yes, sir. Q What happened after you got to Jonathan Brown’s apartment? A We all loaded up in his van together, everyone I had described before, including his wife and children, and went to the Aryan Nations meeting in Symrna, Tennessee. Q Describe a little bit what happened at the Aryan Nations meeting as well as how many people were there and what it was like, where was it, how long did it last? A I’d say there’s a couple of hundred there and it was in a conference room at a hotel or maybe a country club; I don’t recall what kind of place it was. And there was basically just the same speeches I’d heard over and over again about -- a lot of Christian Identity speeches and a lot of speeches about how we’ve got to overcome the Jewish system that’s running our Government and how we’ve got to take back our land. How long did the meeting go for? I’d say four or five hours. And after the meeting what did you do? We went to Shoney’s Restaurant. And when you say "we," who are you talking about? > or o> OD Myself and Jonathan Brown and his family; Richard Butler, the leader of Aryan Nations; a Christian Identity 40a b on © mM No preacher named Newman Britain. Q Was there any -~ A Bobby Norton, and a couple of Skinheads, Lynn Battistelli. Q After you ate at Shoney’s, where did you go? A To Bobby Norton’s house. Q And then after that? A To my apartment. Q About what time did you get to your apartment? A Sometime at dusk -- I don’t -- it was in the evening; it was getting dusk out. And what happened after you were at your apartment? I went over to Mr. Brown’s apartment by myself. And after that what happened there? Q A Q A I met him and Leonard Armstrong there. Q And what did you do with Mr. Armstrong? A We just went outside and talked about guns for awhile, and just showed off the guns that we had. And then Mr. Leonard Armstrong came back to my apartment with me. Q When you say, “the guns that we had," did Jonathan Brown show off any guns that he had? A Yes, sir. Q What guns did he show off? A The Mac .10 and Mac .11. Q Okay. And after you went back to your apartment, what 4SearN Ome w 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 happened next? A The Skinheads were at my house and Mr. Armstrong and myself decided to go to a place called "Elliston Street." Where is Elliston Street? A little bit outside of Nashville. Q A Q And did you eventually go to Elliston? A Yes, sir. Q Who did you go with to Elliston? A Leonard Armstrong, myself, Joseph Brown, Kelly Sutherland, Tina Harber, Troy Oliver, Lynn Battistelli and Jimmy Norton. a Is Jimny Norton related to Bobby Norton? A Yes, sir; he’s his son. Q After you went down to Elliston, what happened there? A We all sat out on the street for awhile just showing a massive force of White Supremacists and I -- a group of Black men in a black Suzuki Samurai drove up and I started to ridicule them. Q What did you say? A I told them that I had a ticket for them to go back to Africa and I told them about having a can of grease for their hair and they got pretty upset and we thought they brandished a weapon and so all the men -- all the boy Skinheads -- we went to my car and left the women behind. Q And then what happened after that? 4210 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A We got in my car and chased the Suzuki Samurai but we lost it. We ended up coming back to Elliston to pick up the women. And that’s when Leonard and myself got in my car on Our own and went a different direction from the rest of the group. Q Where did you and Mr. Armstrong go? A We were on our way home down West End Boulevard towards the 440 freeway when he mentioned about going to see @ Skinhead named David Neatherly who had been accused of spray painting the West End Synagogue so he wanted to see the Synagogue so I drove down towards the Synagogue. Q What happened when you got there? A When I got there we saw the Synagogue. He asked me to circle around the block and come -- to see the Synagogue again and I did so; I went down a little ways I’m not sure how far. I went down a neighborhood street until 1 could Finally make myself back to the block before the Synagogue. Q As you approached that street? A As I approached the main -- West End again, Leonard Armstrong took out a black case which I knew he had in my car. It contained a Tek .9 assault pistol. And he took it out and that’s when I proceeded down again in front of West End Synagogue. Q What happened? A He rolled down the window. He lent over kind of back 43oc ©O ON OH e® OY +0 GL @e®N DH eR wD into my lap and let out a little bit less than, I’d say, ten rounds. Qa Why did he lean back into your lap? A So the -- he wanted the casings, the shells from the bullets to remain in my car so they couldn’t find fingerprints on the casings out on the streets somewhere. Q And after he shot the gun off, what happened? A I turned off the headlights to my car, made a "us turn on West End and headed toward the 440 freeway which I eventually made my way home. Q And what happened when you got home? A Well, we got home and Leonard Armstrong -- I have a police car at that time and it had -- Q When you say, "You have a police car," describe that for the Jury and how you got this car? A Okay, I had a 1986 Crown Victoria that I had bought in California before leaving, from the Lake County Sheriff’s Department, and it was still a police car with the engine and everything intact. It just didn’t have the markings or the lights or the sirens that a police car has. And it had these lights for them to read at night-time, their tickets or whatever, and he turned one of those lights on and proceeded to pick up all the casings that were in the car and I don’t know exactly how many there were. 441.°Q And then after that? 2A After that he walked over to Jonathan Brown’s house 3 with his gun and said he was going to go put it away in his 4 car -- in Leonard Armstrong’s car. And I went up into my 5 apartment. 6 a What happened the rest of the evening at your 7 apartment? BA As far as I can remember, we ordered Pizza and just 9 messed around and drank a lot and ended up going back out to 40 look for some type of 24-hour drugstore that was open that 41. sold the clippers to shave our heads because the girls 12 wanted to shave their heads because they were drunk and they 43 thought it'd be something fun to do. 14.0 And then after that? 16 A It got pretty late and it was about five or five- 46 thirty in the morning and everybody was pretty tired. A lot 47 of them were asleep and Metro, the -- Nashville’s Police 18 Department came knocking at my door. 19 When I answered it, they were asking questions 20 about a car that had been broken into that night and when 21 they realized that there was a lot of Skinheads there, they 22 -- what they told me is that they’d realized there were 23 juveniles there and one of the people in my house, Kelly 24 Sutherland, got pretty belligerent with them because she was BS drunk. And at that time more police were called and they 45ao © ern aa eventually came into my apartment. Q Did they confiscate any weapons there? A Yes, they confiscated a AK .47 and a clip to a Mac «10. Qa Who did that AK .47 belong to? A It was mine. Q What happened to you after they came to your apartment and confiscated the weapons? They arrested me on the fact that I was a juvenile. And where did they take you? To Juvenile Detention Center in downtown Nashville. How did you get out of the Juvenile Detention Center? > Oo > D > They tried to contact my parents who live in California but due to them being on vacation and my dad -- like I said, I hadn’t talked to in a few years and I didn’t want them to bother him with it. Mr. Brown came and took custody of me. Q Okay, and he signed you out? A Yes, sir. Q As your guardian? A Yes, sir. Q At that point did you -- at that point, I’m talking about the day after the shooting, did you tell Mr. Brown that you had been involved in the shooting? A No, sir. 46a on = oa Q Where did you go after that evening -- or that morning? A Well, I went to the Waffle House on Bell Road in Nashville. Q And then where did you end up living for the next few days? A Lynn Battistelli and Tina Harbor had a truck and they had packed all my stuff from the apartment and they drove me down to Jonathan Brown’s farm in Pleasantville, Tennessee. Q Why did they take all your things out of your apartment? A Because we were going to be evicted and also because the manager after all the problems with the police officers that morning, kicked me -- basically kicked us out of the apartment. Q Who is Lynn Battistelli? A She’s now my wife. Q At that point who was she? A Just my girlfriend, or a Skinhead from Memphis, Tennessee. Q When did you meet her? A That day -- the day of the shooting. Q And who was Tina Harbor? A Tina Harbor was her best friend at the time. Q And do you know Tina Harbor now? 47A No, sir. Q You said that they moved you down to Jonathan Brown’s farm? A Yes, sir. Q And this is the farm that you described before? A Yes, sir. Q And do you know what county that farm is in? A No, sir, Hendersonville -- I don’t know, sir. Q Do you know what city it’s near? A Pleasantville. Q How long did you stay at that farm? A Approximately a week. Q And what happened that made you leave the farm? A Mr. Brown came down there one morning and said the FBI had come into his apartment with the arrest warrant for me for so many charges and he said that he was going to go down to the local library and find out what the charges were. Q What was Mr. Brown’s demeanor like that day? A He seemed pretty paranoid that day. They’d come into his home and he seemed pretty -- it was like he wanted to get something done right away like he wanted to hide the situation. He didn’t want them -- his main concern was he didn’t want them to find out where the farm was and find out about the farm. Q And why didn’t he want them to find out -- have them 48- 0 © mw on find out where the farm -- A Because we were going to use it for future reference for hiding out people in the movement who were in trouble this was before para-military- ut what the charges were and for training -- Q Did he in fact go and find o all about? A He came back and told me what they were. Q And what did he say? A He said that one of them had to do with violation of civil rights and a desecration of a holy place, something to do with illegal weapons; I don’t really remember the exact charge on that. Q Did you see that he had a -- some sort of warrant with him? A He told -- all I can remember is that he had some paperwork with a lot of numbers written down which he said were the violations. Q Okay, and what happened after that? A He said I had to leave the farm for a time so that the + until the heat blew over so that no one came down looking for me at the farm. Q Okay, and what happened next? A We discussed on how to get where -- from where am I going to go. We discussed how I’m going to get out of there and eventually we ended up deciding that it was best for me 49to head west and that he would help me out as long as I left for awhile. a okay, and did he help you out -- before you left, did you eventually disguise your car? A Yes, sir. Qa What happened and tell the Jury a little bit about the circumstances of that? nted to get me out of the state as soon as A We wa possible and he said that there was an APB out on me -- Qa What is an "APB," as best you know? A An "All Points Bulletin" means the police or the federal marshals, whomever, are Looking for me to detain me for questioning and he wanted to get me out of the state as quick and as I know this is possible. And at that point we had to come up with some disguise, either send me another car or disguise my car and we ended up disguising my car. Qa And tell me what happened? A We -- I mean Jonathan Brown and myself in his turquoise or some color like that, truck went to Wal-Mart in Hohenwald, Tennessee, and bought ten cans of black spray paint, around ten cans of black spray paint for my car. Q And after you bought the spray paint, what did you do then? A We went back to the farm. Jonathan Brown, Joseph 50Seer oa "1 2 22 24 Brown, Lynn Battistelli and myself parked my car up by a barn and a hillside bank and it was about dusk time and we proceeded to paint my car totally black. Q About how long did it take to paint your car? A I'd say an hour or two. Q And was there anything to do with the license plate? A We ended up deciding that -- Jonathan Brown said he would give me his license plate off of his turquoise truck to disguise my car so we could get out of state. Q And did he give you that license plate? A Yes, he did. Q And what did you do with that? A Put it on the back of my car. Q And how long did you have it on the back of your car? A For about two weeks until I reached Las Vegas, Nevada. Q And what happened with those license plates? A I eventually mailed them back to him. Q Before you left -- you mentioned already the spray painting of the car, and the license plate; was there any other disguise? A He’d given me some farmer’s straw hat and I put on a pair of overalls to look more of a farmer or an Amish-type individual. Q Why did you dress particularly like an Amish person? A Because it looked more inconspicuous -- the cops 51nm bo wouldn't be looking for someone like that. They weren’t going to be looking fora black car. They weren’t going to be looking for that license, a Tennessee license plate and they certainly weren’t going to be looking for someone who looked like a respectable adult, or an Amish person, a farmer. Q Did he give you any money before you left? A Yes, sir. Q How much money did he give you? A Around $500.00. Q And what was the purpose of that money? A For transportation costs to wherever I was going to go -- to find a place to go at that time, for hotels or gas or Q Did he give you any telephone credit card for you to use? A He'd given me before his -- either his personal phone card or his brother-in-law’s phone card. It had his brother-in-law’s phone number with a pin number at the end of it, which I used. Q okay, and did you call him once you'd left the farm? A Yes, sir. Q Where did you go once you left the farm? A We first went to Mississippi and stayed a night there. Q Who's "we"? 52A Lynn Battistelli and myself. a And you said you went to Mississippi? A Yes, sir. Q And then where did you go? A We went to Texas for one day, and proceeded on to Arizona over the next two days where we bought some camping equipment at a mall and we went to a campground at Lake Havasu, Arizona, and camped out there for approximately seven days. Q And then after that? A We proceeded -- because of the heat and everything, we proceeded on to Las Vegas, Nevada, where we ended up staying in a hotel. Q During those couple of weeks on your way to Las Vegas, did you call Jonathan Brown periodically? A Yes, sir, I'd say about twice a week. Q And did you let him know where you were? A Yes, sir. Q And he was aware of all of that? A Yes, sir. Q When you got to Las Vegas, did you have any money problems? A Yes, sir, we couldn’t -- we'd already spent most of the money for food and gas and camping equipment -- we had bought a tent and some other things for the water, for Lake 53Havasu, and Lynn tried getting a job there and we -- I called Mr. Brown and he "Western Unioned" me a certain amount -- $500.00 or so to Las Vegas, Nevada. Q And when he “Western Unioned" it to you, did he actually send it in your name? A No, sir, he sent it in Lynn Battistelli’s name. Q Why did he send it in Lynn Battistelli’s name? A Because he didn’t want the FBI to know where I was in case they were following me. How long did you stay in Las Vegas? Approximately two to three weeks. And after that where did you go? Q A Q A Los Angeles, California. Q And how long did you stay in Los Angeles? A About three to four months. a Okay, and during that time were you in contact periodically with Mr. Brown? Yes, sir. And did you eventually go back to the farm? Yes, I did. When did you go back to the farm? In early November of that year. And about how long did you stay at the farm? About a month-and-a-half, maybe a month. o> oe > 2 > DO > And what did you do when you were at the farm during 54that time? A We finished rebuilding his house that he was building there with Leonard Armstrong and his brother Joseph Brown and shot our weapons off every day. Q Did you ever go and seek out people to help you in training? A Yes, sir, Q Who did you seek out to help you in training? A A man named Bill Tickle. Q Who was Bill Tickle? A A man who had trained a member of the Order. Q What is the "Order"? A The Order was a White Supremacist organization -- NR. BROWN: Objection, Your Honor, the Order is not part of this and not only that, this line of questioning about para-military is forbidden because it’s inflammatory, Rule 403 Federal Rules of Evidence. THE COURT: I’11 overrule the objection. Q (By Mr, Wroblewski) What is the Order? A The Order is a White Supremacist organization in the early 1980’s that started with a man named Robert J. Matthews. They went around robbing armored cars to form a war chest for the upcoming battle against Z0G, which stands for the Zionist Occupied Government, which is the Jews who occupy our government. They went and killed a Jewish radio 5524 22 24 talk show host named Allen Berg in Denver, Colorado. a And you said that this Mr. Tickle was involved with the Order before? Yes, sir. And you said that you went and saw him? Yes, sir. Who else went and saw him with you? Leonard Armstrong, Jonathan Brown and Joe Brown. What was discussed at that meeting? > 2 > OD > OD Eventually sometime after Mr. Tickle got out of jail for tax problems that we would start training, physical fitness-wise. MR. BROWN: Your Honor, this is an exploratory investigation now. It’s not anything to do with this trial. Objection. THE COURT: I'll overrule the objection. Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) Did you and Mr. Brown and Armstrong and Jonathan Brown’s brother, Joe, go through with some of this training at the farm? A Yes, sir. Q And how did it come to pass that you left the farm after a month or so? A With a lot of problems -- they had just -- a lot of it stemmed from financial problems with Jonathan Brown, with Leonard Armstrong and myself not feeling that we were 56getting paid adequately for our work on the farm. a What were you doing on the farm that you were supposed to be getting paid for? We were building his house for him and his family. Was that at his direction? Yes, sir. What was your agreement in terms of money with him? > p> o> We got a -- I believe it was a $150.00 a week plus room and we were allowed to train on the farm with him and at the completion of the property, he would give us a part of his farm that we could build our own place to have for our families. a Okay, and again what was the basis of the argument that led to this breakup? A It basically had to do with the money situation that -- none of us were getting paid and Larry was pretty upset and at that time I’d become really close with Larry. I was good friends with Larry and his -- and his wife, Lisa, and we decided to -- Larry told me they were going to move back to East Tennessee and they offered to take me with them, and I agreed. Q Larry is the same person as Leonard Armstrong? A Leonard Armstrong. Q Okay, and Mr. Armstrong, was he involved in any White Supremacist group? 571 at 22 24 A Yes, sir, he was the Grand Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan for Tennessee, Q What does the "Grand Dragon" mean? A It means he headed up the state -- he wasn’t the teader of the Klan organization but for the -- he was the leader of it as far as the State of Tennessee was concerned, a After you left the farm, you said that you went to East Tennessee; is that right? A Yes, sir, Qa How long did you stay in East Tennessee? A Until right after Christmas. Q And then where did you go? A I contacted my father after not talking to him for a few years and told him about the problems that I was having and I told him I wanted out. And he said -- he offered to fly me out to Hawaii to live with him and my stepmother and to get back up on my feet. Q And did you do that? A Yes, sir. Q And what did you do out in Hawaii? A I worked for my father doing construction and got back into shape and did other things to get back a relationship with my father, and at that time the Persian Gulf War was going on and I decided to join the military, Qa And did you join the military in Hawaii? 58A Yes, sir. a And that was the Navy? A Yes, sir. Q And you’ve been in the Navy ever since? A Yes, sir. Q Have you been in trouble at all while you’ve been in the Navy? A No, sir. Q Have you been involved with the Skinheads since you've been in the Navy? A Yes, sir, when I got out of boot camp and I went to training school in Virginia; I had known some of the Skinheads there from prior rallies in Tennessee and because of not knowing anybody there, I ended up meeting with them and hung out with them for sometime. Q Okay, did you commit any crimes while you were hanging out with them? A No. Q Eventually how did you get back to this court and pleading guilty, as you described before? A I was subpoenaed while I was in school for training for my job that I have now and I -- Q You were subpoenaed to what? A Subpoenaed to testify in front of the Grand Jury. Q Okay. 591 A And I came and did so and after listening to the charges, I pled guilty, a Okay, did you contact a lawyer? A Yes, sir. Q And through that lawyer you had some negotiations with the Government; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q And you eventually pled guilty? A Yes, sir. Q Okay. Before you left Jonathan Brown's farm, did he show you a newspaper article? A Yes, sir. Q What were the circumstances about that? A It was just the article that had been in the paper from the shooting at the Synagogue. As best I remember, it was a picture of the shattered glass and someone either picking up the pieces or reinstalling the glass. Qa And what happened between you and he at that moment? A We didn’t talk about it. He just looked at me with the article and we just left it at that at that time. And Q Okay. I’d like to go through a few Exhibits with you, if I may. MR. WROBLEWSKI: Your Honor, may I approach the witness? 60THE COURT: A1L right. MR. BROWN: Can I see that? We need to approach the Bench. May we approach the Bench, Your Honor? THE COURT: All right. [WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were had at the Bench out of the hearing of the Jury:] MR. BROWN: That doesn’t matter to me; that is fine. This is something I was entering into evidence as exculpatory. I wanted to inform you of that. He is entering it in now, trying to anyway. This right here is a THE COURT: You have no objection? MR. BROWN: I do have an objection to him using it right now. THE COURT: If you are going to use it, you don’t have an objection to it. What is your objection to this? MR. BROWN: It is a photograph utilizing the things we asked the Court to exclude because of Rule 403 because of the fact that it is inflammatory, and the same thing with this. All this is inflammatory and it is -- THE COURT: These were items that were seized during the search? MR. WROBLEWSKI: Yes. 61THE COURT: I am going to overrule the objection to those. What is this? MR, WROBLEWSKI: This is a manual, This is the way it was. This is the manual that was seized from Mr. Brown’s apartment also, pursuant to the search warrant. MR. BROWN: This does not mention White Supremacy and has nothing to do with the advocacy of oppression of Blacks, Hispanics, Jews or any minorities and has no relationship with the charges that I am charged with. MR. WILLIAMS: Your Honor, for the Record, the items have to do with the para-military things that were previously discussed and also discusses specifically how to evade detection from law enforcement and gives instructions on weapon purchasing. MA. BROWN: This is an outdated nonfunctional piece of junk that -- MR, WROBLEWSKI: We believe that is proper for cross-examination. THE COURT: I am going to overrule the objection. (WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were had in the presence and hearing of the Jury:] WR. WROBLEWSKI: Your Honor, for the Record, we’ve shown these items to defense counsel. Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) Mr. Armstrong, the Marshal is 62on Se eraau handing you what’s been marked as Government -- THE COURT: Mr. Patton. MR. WROBLEWSKI: I'm sorry, Mr. Patton; I’m sorry. Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) The Marshal is handing you what’s been marked as Government Exhibit 1; do you recognize that? A Yes, sir. Q What is it? A It’s Jonathan David Brown’s identification cards recognizing his membership in the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Q Maybe we can go through all of these. Mr. Patton, as we go through them if you could just indicate -- we’1l go through them one-by-one and indicate the number of the Exhibit that’s being handed to you and then what the Exhibit is. A This is Government Exhibit 2; it’s a photograph at Bobby Norton’s house. WR, BROWN: I object to that being introduced as evidence because it’s a still photograph and it does not show context. It’s excluded as inflammatory by Rule 403, THE COURT: I'll overrule the objection. Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) If you could describe what’s in the photograph? A It’s people who were at the Aryan Nations meeting that day for "Bible" study -- Jonathan Brown, Bobby Norton, 63oo se wo Se wen 11 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 myself, Kelly Sutherland, Jinmy Norton, Jonathan Brown's two sons, Gaylon and Nathan, and a lady named Sondra (Sandra) Cleveland and her husband whose name I don’t remember. a What is the flag in the background of the photograph? A Tt’s World War II Nazi flag for the Third Reich. Q And what are the people in the photograph doing? A Sieg-heiling. Q What does that mean? A The old Nazi Germany salute. Q Okay, why don’t we go to the next one. You can just describe what the Exhibit number is and what that is? A Do you want me to read the Grand Jury Exhibit number? Q No, just the Government Exhibit number, the yellow one at the top. A Government Exhibit 3. It’s a book or a newsletter that’s put out by the Oklahoma Separatists, a letter by a man named Joe Greco, an older Skinhead in Oklahoma. Q What is being depicted on that? A The picture is a Federal Agent or a law enforcement officer with a badge that says, "Z0G" which stands for the Zionist Occupied Government; that’s what it stands for, He represents the Jews and he’s tied to a stake and he’s -- he’s being burned. Q Okay, the next item -- actually if you can go to the loose-leaf book first and just describe what that is and 6410 12 13 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 give the Exhibit number? A This is Government Exhibit 4, called "The Road Back." It’s a book or pamphlet It’s a book showing how to form a para-military organization and how to instill secret codes and phone numbers in the way you talk and send letters so the intermitter -- whether that be the Government or whoever doesn't know what you’re talking about. MR. BROWN: Noted for the Record, objection. THE COURT: All right, overruled. MR. BROWN: It’s 403, Q (By Mr. Wroblewski) Could you go to the next item. Actually if you could save that one until last. What number Government Exhibit is that? A Government Exhibit 29. This is Jonathan Brown’s membership to Aryan Nations. Q Okay. Now as to the Exhibits that you’ve looked through so far, have you seen documents that look like those at Jonathan Brown’s home? A Yes, sir. Q Okay, in each and every one of them? A Yes, sir. a Okay. Why don’t you go to the last Exhibit now? A Government Exhibit 44. Q What is that? A It’s a -- Damian Patton’s Last Will and Testament. 65oer OAT you prepare thate A Yes, sir Qa When did vou prepare that? On the Gay T lett the fare ANT WHY Gd You prepare that? A Secause Jonathan Brown Said something bad might happen to me when T was SVRTLND The law and that I need to -- all ny delon nas I was Jeaving at his fara basically -- in his darn and that I need to write Out something to leave it to somebody in case ‘Something happe Qa Okay, A med to me. Sid he refer to anybody from the Onder? He said the sam Ching that happened to Robert J. Matthews might happen to nyselt. Q What did you think that that referred to? A Because Robert J. Natthers was murdered by the FBI. Q And at whose direction dig you make that Will? A Jonathan Brown's. Q And how did you figure out the words to write in that Will? A Because Jonathan Brown told me. Qa Tf you could -- do you have the Government Exhibit 1? Tf you could pull that out. And is there -- 1 believe on the back side, is there something written on there, words at the bottom of it? some A “Declaration of War, November 25, 1984. *a Can you read that please, for tho A "It is a dark and dismal time in the history of our race. An evil shadow has fallen acros once bare land, 6 our A certain vile alien pooplo have taken control of our country, When the day comos, we will not ask whether you swung to the ‘Aight’ or they swung to the ‘Left’; we will oimply swing you by the neck. This is war. The order," a And that is again, what -- what was the Exhibit? A Tt was Jonathan Brown's membership to the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, a Does it have a signature on that card? A Yes, sir. a Whose signature? A It’s not legible. a How about on the other side? A Jonathan Brown's. Q Okay. I’m going to just ask you another question. You mentioned before about someone -- a publisher of “The Tennessean"; is that right? A Yes, sir. a And do you recall that person's name? A Zigenthaler or Sigenthaler, I can’t really remember. WR, WROBLEWSKI: Your Honor, may I just have a moment to consult with counsel? 67THE COURT: All right, WA. WROBLENSKI: No further questions. THE COURT: Why don’t we take a recess before the oross-examination. I will instruct the witness, do not discuss your testimony with anyone during the recess. (Whereupon, at 10:53 a.m. the Jury retired from open court; a recess was taken; at 11:17 a.m., the Jury returned to open court, after which the following proceedings were had:] WR, BROWN: My question, Your Honor, is it my 43 question? THE COURT: Are you ready for cross-examination? 14 6 NR. BROWN: That’s right; I’m sorry. 6 THE COURT: Mr. Brown, are you ready to cross? 7 WR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. I need the defense -- excuse me, I need 19 the prosecutor to look over a couple of photographs. a THE COURT: All right. a WR. BROWN: I’m sorry, Your Honor. Things came out 2% at testimony that I needed to -- 3 THE COURT; Go ahead and ask your questions. a CROSS - EXAMINATION % BY WR, BROWN: 681 0 and the farmhouse as being Para-military true? A a farm? oF oO wr, Patton, You mentioneg Somethin 1g about this farm camp; is that not Yes, sir, that’s what 1 saig Do you recall my parents out there in the area of the Yes, sir. Do you recall where they lived Yes, sir. Excuse me? Yes, sir, Can you describe where they lived from the farm? About a mile down the road, And can you tell us why they were living by the farm; recall? No, sir, I don’t recall. You don’t recall why my mother and father were living near the farm? A Q No, sin. All right. MR. BROWN: Can we enter this in? Do you have any objections? There's a couple of photographs here marked No. 9 and Exhibit No. 10 -- I jumped order there a little bits 1 ‘11 get back to it. I need the witness to look those 69o o over. [Whereupon, Defendant’s Exhibit Nos. 9 and 10 were admitted into evidence. ] a (By Mr. Brown) Can you describe any of the people in that picture? A No. 9 has your brother Joseph Brown, a man named N. C and it looks like the back of myself in No. 9. @ Is there anyone down in the -- hanging a board that you recognize? A It looks like your father. ° That’s my father. Yes, now, the other picture, do you recognize any people in that picture? A Defendant's Exhibit No. 10 has myself, N. C. and your father. a My father was there. All right, thank you, Mr. Patton, Do you recall, Mr. Patton, that the specific reason why that farmhouse was being built was for my parents? A Yes, sir. Q And so we were rebuilding the old farmhouse; it was an old farmhouse, wasn’t it? And we were remodeling; is that not true? A Yes, sir. Q Do you believe that my parents were taking part in our para -- alleged para-military activities? A No, sir. 701 21 22 24 a Well, then why on earth were we rebuilding the old farmhouse for them to live in? A Sir, the time that your parents discussed that they didn’t want the activities that were going on at the farm at the time of the shooting of the guns. It was my understanding that you asked them to leave the area. Q Did my mother ever confront you with shooting guns? A No, sir. Q Did my father ever confront you with it? A Not that I remember. Q All right, but we were rebuilding that farmhouse specifically for my parents; is that not true? A When I first arrived down to the farm, that was what you said was the intent, but after I’d arrived down there when -- the second time with Leonard Armstrong, you said your parents had gone; you’d asked them to leave because circumstances had changed. Q I see, and so somehow in the middle of the thing, your interpretation is that the para-military activity at this farm was apparent at some point later? A I don’t understand. Q In other words, the intent of that farm was not for para-military in the beginning; it was only after a certain point that you recall in your mind that it became what you call "para-military"? 71A No, sir, I always understood that we were going to use it for para-military; I didn’t know anything about your parents until after I had moved down there the first time. a When did you go to work for me, Mr, Patton? A I don’t recall what month it was. Q Was it, say, six weeks before the Synagogue incident? A It was sometime before the Synagogue incident, yes- Q Several weeks? A Yes. Q Maybe a month-and-a-half? A Possibly. Q Do you recall me confronting you and telling you that I didn’t want you to shoot weapons out at the farm, Mr. Patton? A I remember you confronting me about shooting one particular weapon at one particular tree because I'd killed your tree. And you said from now on, if we're going to do it, we had to do it up ona hill where you had dug out for a second house. Q You don’t recall me telling you specifically, Mr. Patton, that you should not shoot guns at the farm? A No, sir. a Especially high-powered weapons like rifles? A No, sir, you asked us to -- at one time later when one of the neighbors complained, you asked us to stop the 72° ®N oo s 10 1" 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 21 22 24 automatic weapon fire for that time. Let’s go back to when you You came here a Automatic weapon fire. first came here, Mr. Patton, from California. with Jessie Johnson; is that not true? A That’s true. Q All right, and Mr. Johnson was the head of a Ku Klux Klan? A No, sir. Q He was not? A No, sir. a Do you remember when he came to Tennessee him having a meeting with some people from a college down in Murfreesboro that came over and he had called a press meeting? A Yes, sir. Q And what was that press meeting in regard to? A I don't recall -- I recall that it had to do something with his activities as a White Supremacist, as a Klan, but I don’t remember the meeting. now you just said that Mr. Johnson was not Qa The Klan - in the Klan? A No, you asked if he was the head of the Klan. a Well, is he not -- was he not in the Klan? A No, he was in the Klan. Q Was he a leader in his organization? A For Nashville, yes. 73What is the name of that organization? 2A It was the Dixie Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. 3a And do you recall telling me at some point before the 4 Synagogue incident that Mr. Johnson had been in contact with 5 the Federal Bureau of Investigation? 6A Yes, sir. 7 a And what was his contact, the nature of his contact 8 with the Federal Bureau? gA At first the initial contact was to do with a bombing 10 that had happened at a P.A.C.E. office in California. 1a Do you not remember telling me specifically that you 12 believed that Jessie Johnson was working with the FBI to 13 create an image of the Klan, a certain image? 4A I don’t understand what you’re saying. 15 a You told me at some point, Mr. Patton, that Mr. Jessie 16 Johnson had contacted the FBI and you believed that he was 17 receiving money from the FBI; is that not true? 18 A Yes, sir, I said that. 12 a Why would he be receiving money from the FBI? 2 A For information he had told them out in California. 2a Information regarding what? 22 A To the bombing of the P.A.C.E. office and the P.A,C.E. 23 organization out there. 24 Q Why would the FBI be paying him for something to do with his own place?A Because he might have provided -- I'm not sure exactly why the money came at that point, but he later provided information about White Supremacists out there. Qa And so do you believe that Mr. Johnson came to Tennessee in order to set up a Klan that was in accord with the image of the media to where the media would say that indeed, the Klan is a hate-group? A We -- Mr. Johnson and myself never discussed that. Q But did you not say things to me in regard to this? A I told you that I believed he was working with the FBI as far as telling them -- informing on certain White Supremacists. Q So he was an informer for the FBI that was parading as a Klansman? A That’s what I told you, yes. Q I need to ask you some things about the Synagogue; did you receive any kind of indication from me that I would have you do something like that? A Are you asking me if you -- Q I’m asking you -- in other words, am I the one responsible for you doing the driving and Larry doing the shooting? A No, you never asked me to do it, no, sir. Q And you've specifically said that at the time that I picked you up from juvenile that you had not said anything 7514 15 16 7 18 19 24 22 8 8 to me about the shooting? A That is correct. a All right. Were you working for me at the time that I picked you up from juvenile? A Yes, sir. Q So you were working for me? A Yes, sir. Q How old were you at that time? A Seventeen years old, sir. Q So you were a minor? A Yes, sir. Q Do you recall when you left the area that the last time I saw you I specifically told you -- gave you instructions to call FBI Agent Deborah Dillender? A Could you repeat that question? Q Do you recall the last time I saw you in June of 1990, that I instructed you to call Special Agent Deborah Dillender? A No, sir. Q Mr. Patton, you came back to the farm later that year and I asked you the question, "Did you call Ms. Dillender?" Do you recall that? A No, sir. Q Mr, Patton, did you call Ms. Dillender? I don’t recall calling Ms. Dillender, no, sir. 76at 22 a4 Q Coming in here to testify today, you are under a plea agreement, as you stated earlier; is that correct? A Yes, sir. a And in that plea agreement you were not charged as an adult; you were charged as a minor, correct? A Yes, sir. Q And you were not charged, in other words, with the crime that Mr. Armstrong was charged with? A I don't know what crime Mr. Armstrong was charged with, sir. a I see. You were not charged with Title 18, Section 241, "Conspiracy Against Rights"? A I’m not aware of that. Q What were you charged with? A Being a co-conspirator. Q Being a co-conspirator? A I believe so. Q It says here, Mr. Patton, in your plea agreement, "Damian Patton agrees that he will enter a voluntary plea of guilty to the information referred to in paragraph 2 charging him with acts of juvenile delinquency." You were charged as a juvenile delinquent; is that not true, Mr. Patton? A That is true. WR, WROBLENSKI: Your Honor, perhaps Mr. Brown 7could finish that sentence -- read the rest of that -- MR. BROWN; Oh, read the rest of it? WR. BROWN: "Charging him with acts of juvenile delinquency, such acts constituting violation of Title 18, United States Code Section 241, had Damian Patton been an adult at the time of the commission of the offense." The actual number of the crime that he was charged with was Title 18, Section 5031, which is a juvenile offense, MR. BROWN: All right. At this time I want to enter some evidence in regard to -- what is the next number; you said 10 was the last one. Eleven? [Whereupon, Defendant’s Exhibit No. 11 was admitted into evidence. ] Q (By Mr. Brown) So, Mr. Patton, you escaped quite a bit of punishment by pleading guilty and agreeing to testify against other people; is that correct? A Yes, sir. Qa You made a comment earlier that the Ku Klux Klan and the Skinheads and all these organizations are violent groups and they want to go out and push these other people away and shove them out of the country, and I have a document there that I’ve given you that is printed by Aryan Nations. Would you open the back cover and read in the back cover there or just describe on the inside who that’s printed by? 78Right here? A a Yes. A By Mr. and Mrs. W. B. Romine. Q Well, down on the bottom; who does it say it’s printed by? A Reprinted by Aryan Nations. Q All right, would you read the front cover to the Jury? A "A story of the original Ku Klux Klan." Q Turn it to that center portion of the book where the staples show up in the center. A (Witness complies.) Q Yes. The bottom left page, bottom paragraph, start there and read for a couple of paragraphs. A "Outrages had been perpetrated by irresponsible parties" -- Q Mr. Patton, would you please just slow down just a little bit for the Record, all right? A “Qutrages have been perpetrated by irresponsible parties in the name of the Klan, Should these parties be apprehended, they will be dealt with in a manner to ensure us future exemption from such imposition. These impostors have in some instances whipped Negroes. This is wrong, wrong, It is announced by this Klan as it must be now by all good and humane men." Q Thank you, Mr. Patton, And that is a book that you 79recognize as being something that is published by Aryan Nations, is it not? A Yes, sir. Q And that is a book that is the story of the way the Ku Klux Klan in that man’s eyes -- the one that wrote that book -- can you describe the author; can you say his name in the beginning of the book? Open the first page. A It doesn’t say on the first page. a Keep turning until you find who it’s written by. Maybe it was at the end. A It says, “Published by the ‘Pulaski Citizen’ by Mr. and Mrs. W. B. Romine, 1924." a Thank you. And so the intent of the Klan was not to go around beating up Negroes such as that says there, but was to bring order into the South because of violent activities; is that what you believe about that? A That is what I read. Q Have you seen that book before? A Yes, sir. Q But you did not abide by that book while you were affiliated or hanging around these Ku Kluxers, did you? A No, sir. Q So in other words, you were an individual that was acting on your own impulses; is that true? A No, sir. 801 ae so 10 " 12 13 14 5 16 7 18 19 at 22 23 24 a Who told you to go do what you would do then? Did someone tell you to do it? What are you referring to? A Qa Such as the shooting into the West End Synagogue? A I believe that as far as this book goes, it represented a Klan in 1921 -- faction of a Klan of maybe hundreds. As I testified earlier -- that I believe that a majority of the Klans today that I have any contact with believe in para-military actions. Q@ So there are many different factions of the Klan; is there any Klan in your estimation or opinion that is adverse to this kind of activity, violent activity? I’ve run into a couple that are. A Yes, @ Can you name those groups? A The only ones -- the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Harrison, Arkansas. Q And would you say that they are the largest Klan in the country? A I don’t -- at the time when I was associated with them, they were. And so the largest body of Ku Klux Klan in the country Qa is not a para-military, violent Klan; is that true? A That is true. Q Thank you. WR. BROWN: I’d like to enter in more evidence at 81——— i I believe these will be Defendant's Exhibits 1 this point. 2 No. 12, No. 13, 3 (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Nos. 12 4 and 13 were admitted into evidence. ] 5 0 (By Mr. Brown) Mr. Patton, you said something that 6 you felt like that I owed you some money and that I wasn’t 7 paying you and you also said that I'd given you money at 8 different times. Do you honestly believe that I owed you 9 money at the end or something else that happened that caused 10 you to be upset at me? 1A At the time of our disagreement was over money, that's 12 what it was over, it was over money. 13 @ Was I down there to hear your argument? Did you say 14 anything to me face-to-face about it? 15 A When you came home that one evening and before we had 146 gone to East Tennessee, we discussed how come I didn’t get 17. paid. 18 Q And even though I had paid you regularly on regular 19 intervals before, you felt as though -- that I had cheated 20 you? 21 A Yes, sir, because those were -- that was at a time 22 before I’d left to go to California for the first time. 23 0 You said something about me "Western Unioning" you 24 some money -- and I’ve got your testimony here from the 25 Grand Jury in which that appears -- you said something to 82a Noo 10 ahi 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 2t 22 24 the Jury just earlier that I "Western Unioned" $500.00 to you. Would you look at those documents right there; just open them up and look at the checks that are there that you've said -- and you also said earlier, didn’t you, that Ms. Battistelli was who the checks were made to? A Yes, sir, Q Can you read the amounts on those checks? A One hundred dollars -- I can’t read this copy. 1 believe it says a $100.00, sir. Q Yes, yes. And you said that it was $500.00 because you were describing that I was a man that would make $200,000.00 a year and so you were -- in your mind you believed that it was $500.00? A That’s what I recall. Q But those documents say specifically $100,00 apiece? A Yes, sir. a And those are not -- are they not the two Western Union amounts that were sent to you; do you recognize Ms. Battistelli’s signature? A Yes, sir. So you confirm that those were received and they’re in Qa the amount of $100.00 apiece; is that correct? A Yes, sir. Q So would you say that you imagined somehow in your mind -- that you have an imagination where you could imagine 837 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 WW 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 24 22 3 24 that something was one way but it was a different way -- recalling? A Referring to the money? a Yes, referring to the money. A The time and -- that was two years ago -- that’s how much I believed it was because I just remembered that we had large hotel bills to pay and I just remembered it being a That’s why I said, "Approximately." large amount. You also made a comment that you did not tell me Qa Yes. where -- oh, excuse me, you said that you did tell me where you were and I need to ask you to recall whenever you called me from the road and I -- do you recall me asking you specifically where you were? A I don’t really recall our conversations back then. Q you are"? You don’t recall that? I don’t recall our conversation. Do you recall me saying, “Damian, I want to know where A As I said, Q And you don’t recall me asking where you were and then you saying, "I can’t tell you where I am"? A No, sir, I don’t recall. Q But you can recall other events during that time period but you can’t recall these two specific questions? A I don’t recall the conversations on the phone. Q Where I asked you where you were and you did not tell me where you were; you don’t recall that conversation? 8413 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A No, sir, wR iN: BROW: I need to enter in as evidence Exhibits Nos. 5, 6, 7 and 8 for tho Defendant, (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Nos. 5, 8, 7 and 8 were admitted into evidence. MR. BROWN: Excuse me, Mr. Marshal -- a (By Mr. Brown) Would you look at No. 5, just look on the back and locate No. 5. Would you read that Affidavit there, Mr. Patton, into the Record, please? A The whole thing? Q Yes, please, very clearly and just take your time with it so the Jury can understand and the recorder can -- A Yes, sir. "I, Bobby Norton, former Director of the Aryan Nations, Southern District, understand that the United States Government is claiming that Jonathan David Brown is and/or was associated with Aryan This is a false claim. Nations. Brown’s intention in "It is believed that Mr. filling out an Aryan Nations’ application was for the purpose of receiving an Aryan Nations newsletter. Any membership cards issued to him were to be activated pending the first dues payment. "The first dues payment was never made. 85.10 "1 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 21 3 Q A Q Therefore, ir. Brown way Never associated by membership with the Aryan Nations. I do not havo any record of this alleged association and Aryan Nations has never considered hima member. As former Director 1 would have known "The Aryan Nations does not advocate violence or the oppression of Black, Hispanic, Jewish and other minorities, only the exclusion of them from their assemblies. “Further Affiant saith not. Bobby Norton." That’s signed by Mr. Bobby Norton? Yes, sir. Do you believe that Mr. Norton would lie on an affidavit like that? A I don’t really know Mr. Norton that well to know whether he would or not, sir. Q A Q A Q But you were in his home on a number of occasions? Yes, sir. And you had conversations with Mr. Norton? Yes, sir. And you sat on his couch and had fellowship? 86> 2 > o> o> 10 "1 12 13 14 and" 15 OA 16 Q 7A 18 19 at 22 R 8 Yes, sin, And did you eat at hig house ever? I don’t recall, And : we had "Bible" studies at his house? Yes, sir, 6. Read the next one, please. This is Affidavit No. "State of Idaho, County of Koetenai: 1, Richard Butler, Pastor of the Church of Jesus Christ, Christian Aryan Nations, understand that the U. S. Government is claiming that Jonathan David Brown is and/or was associated with the Aryan Nations." Excuse me, would you read that a little slower, "Is what? "Is and/or was associated with the Aryan Nations." Thank you. "This is a false information. It is believed that Mr. Brown’s intention in filling out one of the applications was for the purpose of receiving the Aryan Nations’ newsletter. Any membership cards issued to him were to be activated pending the first dues payment. "The first dues payment was never received, was never made. Therefore, Mr. Brown was never associated by membership with the Aryan Nations. 87We ; @ do not have any "ecord of this alleged associat 70M and we do not consider him a member. 2 3 "As : Pastor and leader of the Aryan Nations, 1 4 would k 7 now. The Aryan Nations does not advocate vi 5 elence on the oppression of Black, Hispanic, 6 Jewi wish or other Minorities, only the exclusion of 7 them from our assembles, Pastor Richard Butler" 8 signs" 9 Qa De 0 you believe that Pastor Richard Butler would lie? 10 A i ‘ And again, sin, 1 really don’t know him well enough to 11 know whether he would or not, But you would say things about the Aryan Nations and 12. Q 13 the Ku Klux Klan that they were violent groups, would you 14 not? 15 A I would say members in there were violent, sir. 6° Q Individuals, in other words? 7A Separate groups inside the Aryan Nations, 18 a How many groups are there in the Aryan Nations? 19 A I don’t know, sir. 2m Q Well, if you don’t know how many groups there are or 21 what -- do you know any of their names? 22 A The Order was associated with Aryan Nations as far as 23 I’m -- 4a Was the Order authorized by the Aryan Nations to 2 commit acts of violence? 881 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 WwW 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 24 22 23 24 25 A I don’t know, sin Q Ha ve you ever read anything as A The only thin, “ne J I've read associated with Aryan Nati leet leas ‘ions is that i Aryan Nations compound — Q Do you recall i aelesto reading in anything about the Order that utler did not have any idea of what these men were doing? A T remember Pastor Butler caught them making counterfeit money and -- @ Pastor Butler what? A Caught somebody making counterfeit money. Q He caught someone making counterfeit money; do you remember that? A I remember reading that, sir. Q And did it say that he approved of that? A No, sir. a ‘And so he would not as a leader of Aryan Nations -- would not approve of this kind of activity that the Order was doing? That’s what the book said. I have someth. 13? Fourteen? This will A MR, BROWN: ling else I want to enter -- I believe it’s -- is this No. be Exhibit No. 14+ [Whereupon Defendant’s Exhibit No. 14 8910 1" 12 13 14 5 16 7 18 19 a 22 x into evidence, } MR. BROWN: This wag ti photocopy of it, Q (By Mr. Brown) Would you look that over, Mr. Patton, and read it very -- take your time with it and read it into the Record, A "To our New People: Thank you for contacting us and for your interest in the Church of Jesus Christ Christian Aryan Nations. Enclosed is a sample packet of introductory literature. Several additional complimentary mailings will be forthcoming. We sincerely hope that you will see the importance of our mission and join with us as a member or a supporter." Q And would you read that sentence one more time and slow down just a little bit? "We sincerely hope that you will see the importance of A our mission and join us" -- pardon me -- "We sincerely hope that you will see the importance of our mission and join with us as a member or a supporter." Q Do you recognize ever seeing that document in anything 9010 "1 12 13 14. 6 16 7 18 19 2 22 24 A I never got mine so -- Q You never got yours, okay, Would you continue reading. A Yes, sir, “Our yearly subscription donation is $20.00 which entitles you to our newsletter and special newsletters. If we do not hear from you after several months, your name will be removed from our mailing list. Remember the survival of the White race depends on what we do now. race and nation, Richard D. Butler, Pastor," Yours for faith, And he just -- you just read that he said, "The a Now, survival of our race depends on what we do now." because you said earlier that Pastor Butler would not approve of the acts of the Order, in fact, caught them making money on his press, do you honestly believe that what Mr. Butler is talking about there has to do with violence for the survival of our race? Answer the question, Mr. Patton. 91THE COURT: Answer it if you can, THE WITNESS: I think different people would take it in different -- different people are going to take it differently. a But Pastor Butler was sending out literature, was he not? A Yes, sir. Q And was literature a part of the way the Aryan Nations would try to express these views? A Yes, sir. Q And was literature a part of the way the Aryan Nations would try to express these views? A Yes, sir. Q And so the literature from Aryan Nations -- in your estimation did it ever say to anyone, "We believe that people should take up arms and go shoot the window out of a synagogue"? A No, sir. . Qa I see. The next thing I want to go into -- the next affidavit in order there, which is No. 7, I believe it is. Would you just take your time reading that into the Record, Mr, Patton. A "State of Oklahoma, County of Tulsa: I, Dennis Mahon, former Imperial Dragon." Q Who is this man’s name again? 92> o> oe © 10 W 12 13 14 18 16 7 18 19 24 22 4 a BA Dennis Mahon, Okay. "I, Dennis Mahon, former Imperial Dragon of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan have been informed that the U. S. Government is claiming that Jonathan David Brown was and/or is a member by association of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and that he held the rank of chaplain in our organization. This is false information. Mr. Brown was never inducted, never naturalized, never associated. "As a leader I was aware of the members in our organization and would have had knowledge if he were ever a member, I had never even heard of Jonathan David Brown until they requested this information. We held no records of his alleged association. “Furthermore, the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan does not have any organization in the Middle District of Tennessee and do not advocate violence or the oppression of Black, Hispanic, Jewish and other minorities, only the exclusion of them from our assemblies. Dennis Mahon." Do you know whose Dennis Mahon is? I never met him, sir. 9319 21 22 24 Do you know who he is? Yes, sir, what position does it say he held? Q A Qa And would -- A Former Imperial Dragon of the White Knights. Q Imperial Dragon of the White Knights. And would the Imperial Dragon be above the Grand Dragon? A Yes, sir. Qa And so he would have been above Mr. Leonard William Armstrong; is that not true? A He would have been above him, yes, sir. Qa And it says in that affidavit, does it not, that there is no organization of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the Middle District of Tennessee; do you recall that? A That's what it says, sir. Q Where did Mr. Armstrong live whenever he was active in the Klan? A In Louden, Tennessee, or Lenoir City, Tennessee. Q Which is the Eastern District? A It’s East Tennessee, Q Yes. And so Mr. Mahon who was the head of that Ku Klux Klan that you’re claiming is a violent Klan, para- military Klan, made his affidavit, signed it under oath because he wanted to state the facts here in this Court; do you recognize that as being an affidavit? A Yes, sir. 941 Q Do you recognize the se al on it? Can you look at the seal and inspect it? A Yes, sir, Q Okay, Mr. Patton, would you read No. 8, Affidavit No. 8? A “State of Indiana, County of Switzerland: I, Joseph Gosciniak" -- Q Gosciniak, I’1l help you there a little bit. "I, Joseph Gosciniak, Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, Northwest Territory, have been informed that the United States Government is claiming that Jonathan David Brown was and/or is a member by association with the Ku Klux Klan and that he held the rank of chaplain in our organization. This is false information. "Mr. Brown was never inducted, never naturalized, never associated. As a leader I am aware of the members in our organization and would have had knowledge if he were ever a member. We hold no records of his alleged association. "Furthermore, the Ku Klux Klan Northwest Territory does not have any organization in the Middle District of Tennessee and we do not advocate the violence or the oppression of Black, Hispanic, Jewish and other minorities, only the exclusion of 95them from our assembliag AS Imperial Wizard 1 have served from September 1, UCC1-207 1987, to present, » Joseph H, Gosciniak." Thank you, Mp, Patton, MR. BROWN: Without prejudice, Qa T have a few more questions. Excuse me just a second, Your Honor? THE COURT: All right. MR. BROWN: I'd like to enter in a few more items. These are coming up as the testimony is coming out and 1 apologize for any delay. Q (By Mr. Brown) And so, Mr. Patton, according to your testimony that you just testified in here today, you believe that individuals who are not acting under direct authority of the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations are, indeed, the ones that are responsible for doing crimes of violence? A As I said before, I believe some Klans are para- military and their organization is based on such. Q And you said that the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was one of those organizations? A Yes, sir. NWR. BROWN: This would be No. 15? Q (By Mr. Brown) Would you look that over, Mr. Patton? What does that appear to you to be, Mr. Patton? A An application to the White Knights of the Ku Klux 961 2 10 W 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 at 22 24 Klan out of Kansas City, Missouri a And could you turn to the second page of that application, Mr. Patton? You see my signature there? A Yes, sir. Q To the right of that place, what does it say? A “Interviewer signature." Q Is there any signature in that position? A No, sin, Q And if that position were not signed, would that application be valid? A I don’t know, sir. Q Did you ever fill out a Ku Klux Klan application? A Yes, sir, but not this kind. Q Yes, and do you recall it having a place where the signature would have to be filled in? A The one that I filled out I don’t recall it having a witness or an interviewer signature, sir. Q Why do you suppose the Government would have that in their evidence that they confiscated out of my house, if it were sent in as a membership application? A I don’t know why they would have it. Q So you don't know why it would be in my house? A Because you had filled it out and obviously hadn't sent it to the national office. a And so it’s possible, in other words, that because 97et 22 x this application was in ay hy Ouse not actually joined th, » 1t'8 indicating that 1 had ® Ku Klux idan but 1 i was about it for various reasons. would y thinking : Ou assume that? A But you have a membership carg a Do you think that thi, me entry into a meeting? A I've never heard of that before Q You've never heard of anyone -- in a situation -- meeting new Klan members that ‘they Would be -- the Klan members would be maybe nervous, for instance, and they would want someone to prove membership -- you don’t follow what I’m saying? A You're saying that -- Q Do you think -- THE COURT: If you take the stand, you can testify to that. WR. BROWN: Yes, sir, I’m sorry. I’1l try to clarify the question. Q (By Mr. Brown) How is it that I would have a membership card from the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and them not have my application? THE COURT: If you know. MR. BROWN: THE WITNESS: Do you know? No, sir, but I would assume -- 9819 20 at 22 23 24 25 TH : E COURT: Just answer if you know or don't. THE WITNESS: No, don’t know. WR. : . BROWN: All right, I'd like to enter item No. 16 for the Defendant, Exhibit No. 16, This came out of the things that were confiscated from my apartment by the FBI June 15, 1990. I photocopied this with Mr. Noble here, over in the FBI Office a few weeks ago. {Whereupon, Defendant’s Exhibit No. 16 was admitted into evidence. ] Q (By Mr. Brown) Do you recognize that letter at all, who it may be from? Can you read who it’s from? A Armstrong, P. 0. Box 138, Philadelphia, Tennessee 97846. Q And what is the date on that? A February 5, 1990. Q Would you read the date of the application that you just read a moment ago? A December 12, 1989. Q S0 it was before February that that application was filled out? A That’s what it says. Q Would you open that page of the new document, No. 16 that I just gave you. What does that appear to be? A The same application. Q Is it filled in? 99No, sin, And was that letter _. thi ‘at Photocopy on the front S that a letter -- con, ‘@ the envelope; is tha 7 like the enver; 7 3 t what it appears to be? This is the envelope A And that -- 4 Q it appears to be Something that would be in that envelope? A Tt might have been something was in an envelope. a Yeah, all right. But that one’s blank? A Yes, sir. a Okay. Turn to the next page. And would you identify the photocopies of those two cards right there? A One is the Christian Enlightment and Research Association, Route 1, Box 608, Philadelphia, Tennessee. It has a phone number and it’s Pastor Leonard "Larry" Armstrong. And the second one over here is the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and it says, "Leonard ‘Larry’ Armstrong, the Grand Dragon," and it gives their address again in Philadelphia, Tennessee. And at the bottom it says, "For blood, soil and honor, with loyal faith in the resurrection of our people. The Order. iJ So Mr. Armstrong there with that card quotes the Q Order? A Yes, sir. 7 D u see any difference between those two cards? jo yo. 1001 2 A What do you mean? a Well, one of them is a ky Klux Klan card by Mr. armstrong, is it not? A Yes, sir, a And the other one is a Christian Enlightment Research Association with him saying he’s pastor, is it not? A That’s what it says, Q All right. Do you see any kind of a schizophrenic or a wide variety between those two cards -- wide distance between the subject matter of those two cards? A They both have the Klan symbol on both of them. Q Yes. And so it’s possible that individuals would print things like that who were, you know, local leaders, local area leaders -- they could print whatever they want with the Klan symbol; is that true? A Yes, sir. Q All right. Thank you, Mr. Patton. Would you assume that because the application to the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was taken from my apartment by the FBI -- and the date of that application was in December of 1989, right? A Yes, sir. Q And June 15, of 1989 is when the FBI came into my apartment; is that correct? A That is correct. Q Would you assume that that application then had never 101eo FP BB made it to the White Knights* office? A This one here I would assume never had. a Which one are you referring to? A The one that you'd filled out, a Yes. Do you have any idea why wr. Armstrong would have sent me another application in the mail two months later from the time of December of 19897 A No, sir. Q Could it be because he did not receive -- THE COURT: He answered no, he does not know. MR. BROWN: Excuse me, I’m sorry. THE COURT: He answered the question, "No," so I’m not going to let you suggest another answer to him. MR. BROWN: ALL right, thank you. Q (By Mr. Brown) I’m going to ask some questions, Mr. Patton, about when you left to go to California the first time in June of 1990. THE COURT: How much longer do you anticipate your cross-examination? MR. BROWN: I would anticipate another ten to 15 minutes. THE COURT: Why don’t we break for lunch and be back at one o’clock. WA. BROWN: Very good. THE COURT: Thank you.MR. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Patton. THE COURT: Mr. Patton, do not discuss your testimony with anyone at all, THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. (Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m. the Jury retired from open court; the noon recess was taken; at 1:11 p.m., the Jury returned to open court, after which the following proceedings were had: ] THE COURT: Good afternoon, Members of the Jury. Mr. Brown, are you ready to continue with your cross-examination? Q (By Mr. Brown) Mr. Patton, do you recall a time period before I met you, one that you told me about in which you were -- you were living in Los Angeles and you described yourself as a "Punker"? A Yes, sir, Q And could you explain to the Jury what a "Punker" is? A A “Punk Rocker" is an individual who believes -- their basic idealogy is anarchy -- who believes in no form of government. They’re just out of control. They are youths with no direction and they usually wear funny hair cuts and they like to stand out because they’re trying to get some attention -- usually from broken homes and they don’t get attention at home so they’re out in the public eye trying to 103get their attention, 0 Thank you. Do you recall us -- you do recall us talking about this subject then -- about you being a Punker in Los Angeles? A Yes, sir. Q And during that time period did you wear make-up on your face, like girl’s make-up? A Yes, sir. Q And how old were you at that time? A About 13 years old. Q Thirteen. Until when did you act like a Punk Rocker? How old were you, in other words? A About 14 years old. @ Yes. Do you recall whether or not the Punk Rockers in general that you were associating with -- were they racists as a whole? A Not all of them are racists, no. Q But some of them were racists? A Some of them, yes. Q Do you recall when we were relating on an intimate level and we were -- you were letting me know you and get to know you and we were getting to know each other; do you recall showing me a video one time in which you and your friend Robert were in the video? A Yes, sir. 104Q And in that video -- it was just a home video, wasn't it? A Yes, sir. Q In that video I believe you were going through different rooms and just walking around with a camera. Were you walking with the camera some and then somebody else was - or did one person walk with the camera primarily? A I haven’t seen the video in a long time but I remember it as just me being filmed on the camera by somebody else. Q And Robert, your friend that was in that video, could you tell us who Robert was? A He was my best friend at the time. Q Yes, and was Robert a White Supremacist? A No. Q What was Robert? A Mexican, Q And so in this video, someone is walking with the camera and suddenly a sign is being held up in the video, a sign; could you describe what was on that sign for the Jury? A Could you tell me -- I haven't seen the video ina long time; I don’t know which sign you’re referring to. Q Well, I’m sure that you recall it, Mr. Patton, because it’s something that was run over and over again -- that video and someone held a sign up and I believe it might have been even put up on a door at one time and it said something 105(Coie Onin Canvey oa © o © oy -+ that someone was not allowed; do you remember what it said? A Yes, sir, on the door it had a sign that said, "No Jews allowed." Q And you were 13 or 14 when you made this? A Approximately, yes, sir. Q Did the Ku Klux Klan or the Aryan Nations influence you in that direction? A No, sir. Q And so you were saying, "No Jews allowed," at age 13 to 14; why were you saying that at that age? A That was Robert Maron, the boy’s house that the room was in, It was a saying that he had always used and I had adopted it from him. He always used to throw pennies at people. It’s supposed to mean something Jewish because he said they were stingy with their money and stuff. Q Do you believe that Jews are stingy with their money? A No, sir. Q Impersonating a Federal Agent, now why did you impersonate a Federal Agent? A It was because David Neatherly was going to go to trial and they thought one of Ray Pope, Jr.'s girl friend's was possibly a Federal informant and since I was the new person in town, them not -- no one recognizing my voice who was -- other than our small group no one would recognize my 106at 22 24 voice so they asked me if I’d place the phone call, Q And so you did a deceitful act impersonating a Federal Agent in order to accomplish a goal; is that correct? A Yes, sir. Q Could you tell us, Mr. Patton, are you now a Navy man or are you a Skinhead that’s impersonating a Navy man? Could you tell us that? A I’m a Navy man, a You're not a Punk Rocker or a Skinhead that’s impersonating a Navy man? A No, sir. Qa And you didn’t just do this in order to escape punishment and to try to change your life to where you would look different? A No, sir. a I’m going to ask you some questions about this $200,000.00 a year that you say that I made; how do you know that? A I don’t know if I said $200,000.00; I just said a couple of hundred thousand a year because that is what you implied to me that you made a year. I’d say an exact $200,000.00, but you implied that you made quite a bit of money doing -- Q So you’re saying -- you’re basically saying that I didn’t say how much money that I made per year, but you 1071 assumed in your mind that I made $200,000.00 a year or a few hundred thousand dollars a year? 2 SA Well, you had told me you made over a hundred thousand 4 dollars a year. And then when -- during other circumstances 5 -- doing other things such as your equipment and everything, 6 we had talked about how much you had made on some of the 7 records; and I don’t remember exactly how much that was. 8 a See, earlier you said that I sent you $500.00 in a 9 wire -- Western Union and the Western Union documents show 10 that I sent you $100.00. Do you think that you might be in your mind exaggerating a little bit about this income Ww 12 because you just -- in your mind back then you were 17 and 48 you just thought, “Wow, Jonathan Brown has a lot of money"? 44 Is that possible? I was under the impression you had a lot of money, mB A 16 yes. 177 Q Is that because I bought a farm and -- did you ever 18 know whether or not I had paid for that farm or not? 19 A You'd told me you had. 2 a I told you that the farm had been paid for? aA From some lady I remember named Clare -- you said 22 you'd ended up paying for it with the sale of your 2 equipment. 4 0 Well, do you know how much money I paid for that farm, 2% Mr, Patton? 1081 A I remember something like -- I just remember you saying maybe $75,000.00. Q Yes. Are you sure -- do you know for sure; can you say honestly for sure that you know that I had paid that farm off back then? A No, sir. a can you say for sure exactly how much money I paid on that farm? A No, sir. Q Do you recall the last time that you left my farm at the end of 1991 -- excuse me, strike that -- the end of 1990 when you left the farm, do you recall the week before when your wife which back then was your finance or girl friend, Lynn Battistelli; do you recall her leaving? A Yes, sir. Q And do you recall the fact that you were telling my children and Lynn was telling my children to pass messages back and forth between you? Do you recall telling my children to pass messages to Lynn? A What are you -- what kind of messages? Q Such as something to do with the broom handle? A No, sir. Q Do you recall that you and Lynn were arguing quite a bit and fighting and carrying on like that? A Yes, sir. 1091 Q Why were you? 2A Because both yourself and myself had been disgusted 3 a 10 "1 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 2t 22 24 with some of hi er actions -- just her attitude around the farm and you had asked me to ask her to leav. a. Qa I see . » and so you’re married to this disgusting person now? A Yes, sir. Q Yes. es. Let me ask you then about when Lynn left, did you ever make any statement to her of any threatening nature whatsoever, A I don’t recall. a Did you ever imply to her that you would take the child from her that she was pregnant with? A I don’t recall if I said that. You don’t recall threatening her and saying, “I’m Q going to take your child from you and that will be the end of it"? A don’t remember saying it. Do you recall me having a conversation with Lynn, Ms. I’m not saying I didn’t say it. I’m just saying I Q Patton now, around there and was eating ou good about you arguing and so it would be best to the effect that she was not doing anything tt of our refrigerator and I didn’t feel if she’d leave? A Yes, sir. 11010 1 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 24 22 24 @ And do you recall driving her to Memphis? A Yes, I do. Who went with you in that car? Leonard Armstrong. Did anyone else go with you? a A a A No, sir. Q When is the next time that you contacted Lynn? A I believe it was when I was in boot camp. Q And so after you joined the Navy, then you contacted her -- did you know at that time that she had been -- that she was pregnant? A No, sin, a And when you contacted her, didn’t she say that she was pregnant? A Yes, sir. Q Did she ever express to you that she would prevent you from taking the child? A The only thing she expressed to me at that time was that she might be putting the child up for adoption. Q And she didn’t say anything to you about that, "You’re not going to get this baby," or "I don’t want you to have him," or anything to that nature? I don’t remember her saying that. A Q Yes. But she did say she was going to put it up for adoption? 11114 15 16 7 18 19 21 22 24 A She said she was thinking about it, yes a Did that make you upset? THE COURT: I’m going to ask you to move on; 1 think you're getting pretty far afield from the issues in this case, MR. BROWN: Your Honor, this is impeaching information. THE COURT: I understand that you are attempting to. MR. BROWN: All right. THE COURT: Move ahead. MR. BROWN: All right, I will, yes, sir. Q (By Mr. Brown) Do you recall my brother Joe at the farm coming in and saying that Rachel and I had a bank account with $48,000.00 in it? I don’t recall him saying that you had $48,000.00 in A “sa it but I recall him saying you had a bank account secret bank account put away. A secret bank account? Q A Yes, sir. Q Yes. And my brother Joe when he said that, did you not suspect that he may be not telling the truth; did you ever suspect that what he was saying was not truthful? A At the time I believe Leonard Armstrong and his wife, Lisa Armstrong, backed up his -- you know, him saying that. 1121 Oca ®~ (0 a 2 ms vw JA 3 4 5 6 a 8 9 remember that particular incident. oO a All right. “here in regards to California. And so Lisa backed it up; Ms. Armstrong backed Q I see, up Joe saying that we had a secret bank account with some money in it? A As is best as I recall. All right, did that make you upset at all that I would Q have been alleged to have a secret bank account and I wasn’t paying you money? I don’t remember how I felt about that secret bank A account at the time; I just remember hearing about it. Well, you said earlier that you were upset at me Q because I couldn't pay you, and did I not tell you that I couldn’t pay you because I didn’t have the money? A Yes, sir. But you had heard this other information about a bank Q account and this information you’re saying -- you don’t think it influenced you at all in the way that you left the farm? I’m not saying it didn’t; I’m just saying I don’t I need to ask you just a few questions WR. BROWN: I’m sorry if I’m belaboring some things a little bit, Your Honor, but they’re pertinent. Q (By Mr. Brown) Do you remember a young lady named Patrina Hackett?1 2 S 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 a1 22 23 24 25 Patrina? ZA a Patrina Hackett? A Did she go by "Trina"? a Yeah. A Yes, sir. a Did you date that girl in California? A Yes, sir. @ Do you recall an incident, Mr. Patton, in which you beat her? A No, sir. a You don’t recall beating her to black and blue? A No, sir. Q She had bruises on her body? A No, sir. WR. BROWN: I need to enter something into evidence and we’ll get off that subject. What Exhibit is next, Mrs. Conner? Seventeen? This is a resume. Q (By Mr. Brown) Would you -- Mr. Patton, would you open that up to about the next-to-the-last page or third from the end and look at the 1990 -- the year of 19907 What does that say at the beginning right there; please read that -- I'm sorry, the front page -- what does the very front page say that this is? "Jonathan David Brown Biography and Production A 1141 Credits." And tell us the evidence number on the back; just mark 20 3 it? aA Defendant's Exhibit 17. 5 a All right, now go to the third from the last page and 6 look at the production credits in there and I would like for 7 you to read those credits -- 1990 -- does it say "1990"7 BA No, sir. 9a Is it '89? jo Eighty-eight. 11 @ Eighty-eight. Go on to where you see "1990." 120A The very last page. 13 a Okay, I’m sorry, I was mistaken, Would you read the 14 production credits -- 15 THE COURT: How many production credits? 16 MR, BROWN: There are a few; it’s just a half a 17 page, Your Honor, THE COURT: Well, I don’t want to take the time. 18 49 When you take the stand, you can testify as to what your 20 income was in 1990, if you want to. aa WR. BROWN: All right. 22 a (By Mr. Brown) The reason why I handed that to you is 3 because you made reference to the fact that I was a music 4 producer. What type of music do I produce, Mr. Patton? 5 A Christian. 11510 "W 12 a Christian music. And so I would be in the gospel in your opinion? music industry, yes. A In my opinion, @ okay. I need to ask you a few questions about when you left the farm in June of 1990. WR. BROWN: I need to have you guys look this over, if you would. And did I inform the Government that I had this item? wR. MR. BROWN: WROBLEWSKI: Yes. Can I enter this in evidence? Do you have any objections? WR. WROBLEWSKI: I don’t know what the relevance of For the Record, Mr. Brown is -- Your Honor, may the it is Record reflect that Mr, Brown has showed us what appears to be some sort of noose and he asked me if I had any objection to it coming into evidence, and my only objection is that I don’t know what the relevance is. I will let Mr. Brown attempt to show THE COURT: the relevance of it. NR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. I did inform the Government that and they -- THE COURT: Go ahead and ask your question. MR. BROWN: They had an opportunity to look at it months ago. Would you take this to Mr. Patton? Do I need a, 116RREBRRBSs to mark this or can - It isa THE COURT: Why don’t you show it to him. rope noose? Just take that up All right, yeah. WR. BROWN: there to Mr. Patton. THE COURT: Have you ever seen that before, Mr. Patton? I’ve seen nooses before THE WITNESS: Your Honor, but I couldn’t tell you after all the years that I’ve actually seen this rope before. THE COURT: All right. @ (By Mr. Brown) You don’t recognize that noose as being the one that you had in Tennessee before you left in June of 19907 Like I told The Honor, I wouldn’t remember the rope -- A THE COURT: Did you have a noose? THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: Go ahead. a (By Mr. Brown) You did have a noose in June of 19907 A I don’t know if it was in June but I remember -- I used to make them, yes. Q And why did you make this noose? We always -- people around just A No particular reason. made them all the time. Q Did you not make this noose to intimidate Blacks? 17