Transcript of Andrea Shea King Show on BTR with Charles Kerchner

December 30, 2010

Ellipses indicate undecipherable content.

Link to audio: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askshow/2010/12/31/the-andrea-shea-king-show.mp3

Intro ends at 45 seconds. Andrea Shea King (ASK) is the host.

After preliminary intro waffle, she plays some audio from a Peter Boyle show.

1.13 PB clip commences:

Barack Obama has lived almost 50 years without leaving any footprints, none, there is no Obama
documentation, there's no bona-fides, there's no paper trail, there's nothing. The original so called vault
copy birth certificate's never been released; Lawyer's fees are estimated about $200,000 on this. A birth
certificate is about 15 bucks.

The certification of live birth that has been released is counterfeited, it's amended. The certification of
live birth was released that's also counterfeited and amendment (yes he does repeat this as though it's
two documents)

1.47: Obama - Dunham marriage license doesn't even exist. Obama. Dunham divorce decree was
released but it's laughable because they were never married. How can you divorce someone you never
married?

Noelani Kindergarden records, suppressed,

Soetero-Dunham marriage license has never been released,
Soetoro adoption records have not been released,
Franciscus Assis school application was released by Jerry Corsi,
Punahu School applications - missing,
Punahu School school records, not released,
Noelani 3rd grade records not released but then there's that weird picture.
Selective Service registration,
Social Security numbers released, State of Connecticut,
Occidental College records not released,
Financial aid, not released,
Passport not released, records were scrubbed by Obama's terrorism, and intelligence advisor,
2.42:
Columbia College records not released,
Harvard College records not released,
Illinois Bar records not released
Baptism certificates not released,
Medical records not released, and it goes on...hang on...
(Peter Boyle clip ends)

3.11 ASK: now that was Peter Boyles of KHOW. To our regular listeners you might recall that on Tuesday
night we played a segment of Peter Boyles show in which he interviewed Dr. Jerry Corsi and about
Obama's refusal to release any of his records... (plugs show, welcomes patriots)

3.33 The Us Supreme Court has declined to hear all arguments in a number of cases brought before it on
the question of Obama's eligibility to hold the office of President under article 2 section 1 of the U.S
constitution. Associate Justice Clarence Thomas admitted in a Congressional hearing earlier this year,
that the Supreme Court is, and I quote, evading the issue.

Well on the 14th, 15th and 16th of this month December 2010, Retired US Naval Commander Charles
Kerchner was an eye witness to a judicial lynching at the trial of a US Army Lt Colonel, who has served
for 18 years in uniform as a military physician, a flight surgeon to General George Casey's unit.

Lt Colonel Terry Lakin had, in the past, deployed to Afghanistan and Bosnia in a war situation. This
month, Lt Col Lakin was found guilty of disobeying orders and missing movement, after he announced
last March that he could no longer follow orders because of his doubts about, and lack of evidence, of
Obama's Constitutional eligibility to act as Commander in Chief of the US military.

4.53 Lt Col. Lakin's trial took place at Fort Meade in Maryland, and in the view of many, the trial was a
sham, a judicial lynching. Lt Col Lakin now sits in a cell at Leavenworth Federal penitentiary, where he
was ordered to serve a six month sentence. He's been stripped of his rank, his pay, and his benefits.

Commander Kerchner has been a guest on this program several times, along with his attorney, Mario
Apuzzo to discuss a lawsuit that they had brought, in which they also demanded that Obama produce
proof that he did indeed fulfill the requirements to hold the Office of President. That case, along with
every other case that has been brought, seeking the truth about Obama's past, was thrown out without
comment.

It's been reported that Obama has spent approximately $2 million in legal fees to prevent his records
from seeing the light of day.

5.52 Since his lawsuit, Cdr Kechner has turned his attention to Lt Col Lakin's case. Commander Kerchner,
a man who takes seriously his oath to defend and protect the Constitution, who walks the talk and puts
it all on the line, as has Lt Col Terry Lakin, is with us tonight, to talk about his case, and the travesty of
justice that has been perpetrated upon Terry Lakin, and by default, every other service member who is
taking orders from a Commander in chief who refuses to prove he is not a usurper.

Cdr Kerchner, thanks for joining us again this evening, and welcome to the program.

6:35 CK: Glad to be here

ASK: It's nice to have you back again. Cdr K, I thought maybe we could start first with you explaining to
our listeners about your case before we move on to that of Lt Col Terry Lakin

CK: Well in er humph I've been er watching Obama cracking (or 'tracking'?) the scene and trying to find
out who he is since early 2008 and blogging actively since last week in July 2008 and increasingly, the
more I investigate the man the less I knew, er his whole identity is an enigma, but, by January of 2009,
seeing that the press didn't vet him, the DNC didn't really vet him, the voters had not had any - the real
knowledge about him of course elected him, and the Electoral College - most of them were hamstrung,
they had to vote the way the popular vote was, they didn't vet him, the Joint session of Congress didn't
vet him.

I had written dozens and dozens and dozens of letters to various Senators and Representatives asking
them to investigate, wrote to the President, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Vice President,
none of them even answered my letters, so at that point I, I just felt that I had to do something, I just
couldn't go, keep just sitting by and do nothing, and I decided to bring a lawsuit, er after the Joint
Session confirmed him, and before he was sworn in, and I looked for an attorney and found Mario
Apuzzo and retained him, he worked on a pro bono basis, and I found some other, through the help of
some volunteers, some other co-plaintiffs, and we brought the lawsuit in January 2009 and the last 22
23 months it's worked its way through the court system and at every level of the court system they er
they, they declined to hear the case on the basis of standing and no citizen has the right under the
Constitution even the 9th Amendment to defend the Constitution in other words we're supposed to
have unalienable rights, er, due process, and er the rights of equal protection clause they investigated
McCain (as to the?) question of citizenship but they didn't investigate Obama I (unclear) I also sued
Congress, by the way, and er Nancy Pelosi, and Dick Cheney because they, they fraudulently and illegally
handled the Joint Session

9.12 not calling for the objections from each and every State, there are numerous charges but anyway it
finally worked its way up to the Supreme Court in September 2010 and er my petition was sent to them
on the 30th of September and er, they just denied to hear it, no comment. They, you know, and we had
asked that the two Supreme Court Justices Kagan and Sotomayor recuse themselves because an obvious
conflict of interest, not even the appearance of a conflict of interest because their very jobs depended
on the legitimacy of the President er the Putative President Obama, to make the appointments and er
their salary their whole career their whole livelihood on that Bench was on the line with my case,
so...they should have recused themselves but they didn't

10.06 and there, er, my, I think there is a reason, and the reason is, was 9 Justices er conferencing on
whether to take a petition and go forward to a hearing, you need 4 to move forward and 5 to win in the
hearing, and with 7, if those 2 had recused themselves, you only needed 3 to move forward, you know,
one less than the majority, and 4 to win the case and...

ASK: Huhmmm

CK: and I think they didn't recuse themselves because they knew, or suspected, that there could be
three Justices that would have voted to take my petition and and grant a hearing on it, so to guaruntee
it was, er was, er didn't get out of Conference, I believe they voted to, to be in there to make sure it
didn't get out of conference by requiring the rule of 4 instead of the rule of 3, and also to be able to
argue against taking it in conference because conferences are held in secret so we'll never know

11.02 but they should have recused themselves. In that case immediately before mine on the orders list
and immediately after mine... Kagan recused themselves in one of 'em and Sotomayor in the other, so,
and if the orders list was full of recusals by those two, because they have many, many conflicts, er, and
in my case they didn't, they didn't recuse themselves and they should have, they had a direct, er, we
cited the regulations in the Federal Court system that deal with ethics and recusals and they clearly
should have recused themselves, but they chose not to, they chose the unethical er stand to, to vote
and hear this in conference and, and obviously I don't know if they voted against it or not 'cause it's all
secret but it didn't get 4 votes to go forward and I'm sure those two didn't, didn't vote to hear the case, I
mean, (small laugh), obviously..I er (ASK tries to interject - unclear as they talk over each other)

12.05 ASK: It certainly seems that they gave themselves an excuse by er, not recusing themselves at that
point (unclear as CK interrupts)

CK: If the case was (clearly?) a loser or a dog of a case, why would you put your ethical reputation on the
line and not recuse yourself? They..I believe that ...the talk around the Supreme Court has been for a
long time, there has just been two or three Justices that wanted to take the cases but never could get 4.
Now here is a case where it's 7, they only needed 3, so I believe they knew this and that and that they
didn't recuse themselves because they knew they had to keep the rule of 4 in play and not let it slip to
rule of 3

ASK: Huhmmm. What do you make of Associate Justice Clarence Thomas stating in a er, earlier this year
in a Congressional Hearing that the Supreme Court is evading the issue?

12.54 CK: Well, I believe that that means, that in some of these conferences and some of the prior
cases...er which if you could be a fly on the wall in there, you would have heard them arguing, a few of
them arguing, or two or three of them arguing, to take this case, this is a Constitutional issue and we,
we've got to decide it, but they never could get the 4, see,

ASK:Huhmm

CK: So I personally think that Chief Justice Roberts has been the hold out on the er, quote, Conservative,
er, side of the court and he's been the one to...

ASK: (Interrupts) What makes you think so? What makes you think it's Roberts?

13.30 CK: I, it's just an instinct or a gut feeling, that he's a collegial guy, that er, he's, er, quite friendly to
Obama and that, and that, that meeting prior to the, er, er, Inauguration of Obama, when they, or was it
right after the Inauguration... the meeting in the conference room there, and, er I think Alito clearly
would have been a vote for the constitution here, and I think Thomas was, I think Scalia was too, and I er
and I, if I had to pick of where i was gonna get the 3 votes for sure it would be, I would be picking Alito,
Thomas and Scalia and Roberts is just a question mark in my mind and I think he's always been the
holdout on the 4th vote,

14.22 now with 7 there you only need 3 and I think that's why the other two Justices appointed by
Obama didn't recuse themselves, if they knew the case was going to go down cause they couldn't,
couldn't get 4, I'm sorry couldn't get 3 rather, they they wouldn't have bothered to hear the, to stay in
the conference, they would have recused themselves. It's just, if you look at the rules of the court,
there's a reason they chose to take the unethical posture of not recusing themselves, there had to be a
reason, and I think the reason was, the law clerks talked to each other in the Supreme Court, and I think
that the word got around that there was 3 Justices leaning to vote for this petition of Kerchner Vs
Obama and Congress. Why else would two Justices sully their reputation with an obvious conflict of
interest and not recuse themselves if they, if they were not needed for, to defeat the case in
conference?

15.22 ASK: And you went in there very confident. You and your attorney, Mario Apuzzo went into this
very confident that you had a case. You were bringing forward a case..that...with arguments that
nobody else had made, and so as a result, you, you felt that, going into it, that you probably had a better
chance than anybody had, of er, of getting this case heard, or at least considered, by the er, by the
Supreme Court

CK: Well, the case was brought at a judicially right time, after the political process was done, that is, the
Joint session had confirmed, illegally in my opinion, confirmed the er, Obama, and prior to him being
sworn in so we were suing the President Elect, a private person at that point, and we you know, felt the
D.O.J shouldn't have been defending him in the first place, he should have been using his private lawyer.
He didn't,

16.14 anyway it was filed at a judicially right time, you know, they all were saying before you are suing
the Secretary of State, that's a (?) you assume prior (?) the election is over so it's moot he may not win
the election, you know or it's not, it's premature he may not win the election and if you sued him after
he took office then they would say to you, like they did in one of the Taitz cases, you should have filed
this before he was sworn in, so in other words, other people didn't include Congress or they said
Congress is the culprit here, when Congress is not before us, so we, we had everything covered, in the
arguments and we also brought in the fact that McCain was given a Hearing and the er Obama was not,
the request (?) of people and that's unequal protection under the law, lack of due process, so, and the
fact that I had written all these letters and not received even an answer,

17.12 but we argued this case very well, my attorney was very...very well laid out case, all the way up
through the Federal system, we didn't skip any steps. Some other cases skipped the appeal process, the
appeals court in the circuit and went directly to the Supreme Court and the Supreme court just threw it
right back down and said no, you can't skip the steps.

You see, so we did everything right all the way up, and I, in my heart still believed the Supreme Court
was not corrupted or rotted from the inside out. I thought if they got the proper case and we gave them
the proper case, based on the fact that he, he, he, he was not a natural born citizen because his father
was not a US citizen,
ASK: Right

CK: and we also argued on the fact that he had not conclusively proven he was born in Hawaii, because
being born a US citizen is a necessary but not sufficient condition to be a NBC, you have to be born in
the country of two US citizens, and his father was not a US citizen, not an immigrant, not even a
permanent legal, not even a legal permanent resident of the United States, he didn't even have a green
card he was a, he was here on a student visa

18.20 So, I thought that if we got the right case to the SC that we you know would be heard, but I was
wrong, and I was particularly encouraged when we believed that the two Justices would recuse
themselves and we'd be dealing with 7 and therefore needed only 3 to go forward, but the ethics were
thrown aside and the two Justices voted anyway and the rule of 4 has taken place and it's the same old
story, in my opinion, looking at all the facts over time, we just cannot get the 4 votes in that, in that SC,
because I think Chief Justice Roberts is the holdout on the conservative side.
They are all afraid of the potential for violence if they, if his, if his constitutional eligibility would be
vetted, that somehow certain minority groups would riot and cause trouble, and you know, civil unrest. I
never believed that. That's, that's an insult to the minorities of this country, that if the constitution was
being upheld and the SC said, that he was, and if they vetted him and they said that the definition of a
NBC is that both parents had to be citizens and you be born in the country and obviously his father isn't
so therefore he's not ineligible, that the rule of the Constitution is the glue that holds this country
together, I don't, I believe very few people would have been causing trouble on purpose

19.45 and the rule of law would have applied and instead we have a situation where the rule of law is
totally gone, we're not, the, the Constitution has been made meaningless by the SC refusing to do its job
and we're headed probably for an even worse situation in this country than, than what would have
happened if the rule of law would have been applied early on, you know, why didn't they apply it in the
Primary? I mean some people would have been upset if he was disqualified 'cause he, but that's what
the constitution eligibility clause is and it should have been applied.

ASK: Yeap, Yeah. Now concurrent with your case, your case went to, ah, went to trial, well not trial but
went to, before the SC, ah, what month was it?

CK: September 30th...2010 and that's when it was submitted, and then it got put on the docket, and
then let's see, ...they had 30 days for the other side to reply and they chose not to reply and then on
November 22nd in private conference with, there's nobody in, no notes or anything, they decided the
case, the petition whether they were going to hear it or not, but we didn't learn until the orders came
out on the 29th, and 29th we learned that it was denied with no comment.

21.00 ASK: OK so (they talk over eachother) Pardon me, I'm sorry I didn't hear what you just said.

CK: I said it was denied with no comment. They don't have to give a reason they just said denied

ASK: Right, right. Well, well concurrent now with that, now was also the trial of Lt Cl Terry Lakin, and er,
we know... (CK interrupts)

CK: He was inside the military pursuing the same question

ASK: Huhmm, and when did you become aware of Commander, er Lt Col Tery Lakin's er, case?

CK: I think it was around March that I learned that a doctor in the military was er, a Lt Col and a docter,
was questioning the constitutional eligibility. That's March of 2010, questioning the eligibility of the
President in that he was frustrated and... unable to get answers and I didn't know all the details of how,
how much he was trying to get answers until the actual trial a couple of weeks ago.

22.05 But I did learn that he was frustrated to the point he was going to disobey orders of the 30,000
men slated(?) to go to Afghanistan which comes...to deploy troops in a foreign country, especially in a
time of war, the President must sign off on those orders. You know they can move troops around inside
the United States all they want, the Pentagon can or whatever, the President doesn't get involved with
that, but when you deploy troops to a foreign z..er war zone and like you remember at that speech at
West Point the President was talking that he was gonna increase the troops in Afghanistan, that 30,000
men were going to be surged over there, and he signed off on which units would be, would be sent over
there and Lt col Lakin was going to be sent over there with one of those units. So this was a direct order
coming down from a, a putative President that Lakin and I too believe was illegal. So, he decided he was
not gonna obey that order because his er his, his prime directive was it's important to defend the
Constitution, that's his oath and er he didn't believe Obama was legal, under the constitution, and er
that therefore the orders he was issuing were were unlawful,

23.08 unlawful as being judged against the Constitution, so I ... (ASK tries to interrupt) I heard about it

ASK: And he's not the only military man, active duty, who erm has challenged Obama. I believe, er,
Major Stephan Cook was er also one of the military who challenged it.

CK: Right

ASK: Correct?

CK: Correct that was one of the plaintiffs that, er or defendants I guess, that Orly Taitz had, anyway he
they, they dealt with him simply by cancelling his orders...and he did also lose his job as a result of that.
They used some dirty tricks in the background after he er, they got his orders cancelled they got civilian
employer who had contracts with the military and they said well if you keep this guy on your payroll
you're not going to get any more contracts

23.59 ASK: Yeeah, yea. Obviously, this is, this is a big, ah, conspiracy, a cabal, to prevent Obama's
records from being shown to the American people.

(They talk over each other)

CK: Let's call it a plan...the conspiracy word is loaded. It's a plan, they have a plan, they had a plan to put
this man in office, er it's been in the works for many many years and it's planned to keep him there and
he's not legally eligible for the Office.

ASK: Um. When you found out about Lt Col Lakin, erm, and your case was er, dismissed, erm how did
you get involved with Lt Col Lakin's case?

CK: Well, I was, I had my own case and I was 110% involved with that, and I wasn't paying a lot of
attention to his case, other than just following it in the news.

I had deliberately tried to stay out of other cases, er on purpose.

25:00 It was a tactical strategic decision of mine, to, to prosecute my case, and stay, stay out of the
other cases. but after my case lost, er, I, I guess I gotta go back to the original beginning - I, I felt called
to bring forward my lawsuit. I felt, I was like, in turmoil for 2 weeks before I did it, because I felt I was
being called to do this. You know, someone's got to do something, you just can't let, all the other cases
have gone down the drain, and someone's gotta step forward, and when I filed it, after that, all that
torment went away, I felt at peace that I was doing something, and again after my case was denied, and
I saw Lt Col Lakin going to Court Martial down there, I just felt like a, er, a fellow soldier...rhetorically - I
was in the Navy - er, he was a soldier, er, I just felt, again, called, that I had to go down there, and do,
and do my best to try and help him.
26.06 So, that's what I did. When my case was denied, I, let him know that I, I would be available to
(advise?) I never spoke to him directly, I never met him until I got down to the CM, but, that I would be
willing to come down and do what I can to speak out to help him

ASK: H hmmm h hmmm

CK: That's what I did, I, I, I, er a friend of mine er helped do the driving and we drove down to Fort
Meade and er to observe and also to speak out if the opportunity was presented to us with the media
down there, er the travesty of this whole thing, that he was living up to his oath and risking everything,
and he was denied discovery in the preliminary hearing in September, denied the ability to call
witnesses to er validate his er, his er, his his his beliefs in the oath and that the oath is the prime
directive and the chain of command goes all the way back to the President it doesn't stop at the
Pentagon like, like Judge Lind tried to, to, Judge Lind determined that the orders came from the
Pentagon and didn't go back to the President for a (or 'that') deployment and that's false

27.14 they, the deployment orders for foreign deployment go back to the President. All authority in the
military comes down from the President, even the authority that convening Court Martial comes down
through the chain of command from the President and he was not allowed to present any evidence
about the chain of command going back to the President, and er and discovery of documents, and, and
even worse, at that point in the hearing...Judge Lind declared that the orders he disobeyed are
presumed legal. So in other words when he went into the actual CM, they were told, the panelists were
told, that the orders he disobeyed were presumed legal, when, if the whole basis of the orders were
unconstitutional, that was the question.

28.03 Are they really legal, because he's not, he's a putative President who wasn't constitutionally
eligible to sit in the Office and give those orders.

ASK: (laughs) Talk about...(CK talks over her)

CK: When you get to the CM and you're told your orders are presumed legal the, the just...the panel has
to accept that fact stated by the Judge. how in the world can he win?

ASK: You can't, you can't and he (CK talks over her) and he was not allowed to...

CK: (unclear)...those orders were not legal in the first place, to go to Afghanistan, so

ASK: Right. Right. They, they, they cut him off at the pass is what they did (CK talks over her)...

CK: It was a kangaroo court he got to the CM and it was a Kangaroo court, there's no way anybody could
have walked out of there without going to jail because the Judge decided the preliminary hearing, no
discovery, no witnesses as to the facts of the merits of what he was arguing, bringing up that his oath as
being the prime directive and he wanted the question answered, is Obama eligible under the
Constitution therefore his orders are lawful, or is he not

29.01 and, and she said you're not going to get even a chance to investigate or ask those questions, and
we're just going to declare the orders are presumed legal, presumed legal, presumed, so are we fighting
a presumed war with presumed bullets, I mean, presumed legal, that was the whole, the legality of the
questions was the whole basis of why he questioned the order
ASK: Yeap, yeap. Tschhh Let's take it from the top here. (oh god please no) You um, you said that you
and a friend drove down to Fort Meade to be there for the trial (CK talks over her).

CK: A combat veteran of Vietnam by the way, he was he was ... you know he had the bullets flying
around over there...I never got in with it myself, but...he was a, he drove a tracked vehicle in the rice
paddies, so he's seen action and he was standing up for his country too, to support, to support Lt Terry
er Lt Col Terry Lakin, he wanted to go down there and show his support.

30.01 ASK: When you arrived, when you first arrived, um, you were er checking in to see if there was
any Military housing available for you?

CK: That's right (ASK talks over him)

ASK: This, again I believe the hand of god is, is involved here, it's it's just, it's just too much to be all
coincidence, because here we drive several hundred miles down to the, a couple of hundred miles down
to the, Fort Meade, and uh, you know, we stop along the way, and had a little something to eat or
whatever, and we get there and we can't find the building and we're driving around, er, we finally figure
out where the check-in building is, and we go in there, and at the exact instant, I...go in, I declared my
name, took my I.D card out and I asked I said that I had called down to make reservations but they said
none were, they weren't taking reservations but if we showed up around 4 O'Clock, er we'd be able to
give you a room if there was one available. I just walked in, ID, Commander Kerchner, just told them
exactly what I just told you. Now, there weren't any rooms but just at that exact instant in time a
gentleman was leaving the building

31.15 and he heard me say 'Commander Kerchner' and I (unclear) to see if there was a room, and he
stopped over there, and after I turned around with my friend to walk out, he says to me, 'Commander
Kerchner', and I said yes, and I looked... and I recognized him, and I says Terry!

There he was, Lt Col Terry Lakin was checking out of that building. Where he was staying at the base I
don't know but that's the building he checked in and checked out was like the central booking building
at the exact instant in time that I'm trying to get a room or just two people our paths cross in the
universe, and we are the two people who had the most recent, high profile cases suing the Pres..hhumf,
you know dealing with the President's eligibility.

If I would have arrived a couple of minutes sooner, or a couple of minutes later, I would never of met
him, it was just, how, how bizarre, you know, if I wouldn't have stopped on the way down, to have a
little bite to eat, or if I would have, if I'd have been able to find a building immediately as I say the gate
guard would have gave me great directions. It's just that everything stacked up and I just walk in there,
say my name and he happens to be leaving the building and he hears my name and he stops and waits
for me and he introduces himself and he says it's an honor to meet me, and I say it's an honor to meet
me? It's an honor to meet you. You're the one risking everything, you know?

32.39
CK:
and we came down here to support you! I introduced my friend and he's, they were talking there a bit
and he said I think we'd better step outside because the gentleman who, who helped us find the
building had come in to show us where to, where the, he was trying to, he turned out to be on the CM
panel the next day, and Terry, Terry had sort of detected that he probably was and he felt that we
should step outside and go in his car and talk, so that there wouldn't be any danger of uh, you know,
impropriety there or whatever.

ASK: Right (she mmm's' throughout, uttering the occasional low level 'right' as he talks)

CK: So we went out in his car and turned, turned the car on 'n he, you know, sittin' there, and we're chit
chatting and again he's pleased to meet me and honored to meet me, I'm telling him I'm honored to
meet you...you know, you're the one risking everything, 'n uh, somewhere in there he says, uh, did you
guys eat yet, did you, why don't you come out to my house, you know, we can talk more out there

33.30 So he, we, we didn't wanna impose, because it's the day before the trial, we thought he had
things to do... things getting ready for the trial, maybe speak with his lawyer or whatever...so, but he
insisted, so we said OK, we'll come out, so we went er, to get our commercial lodging taken care of and
as soon as we did that, off base lodgings 'cause there wasn't anything on the base, er, we then went out
to Terry's house and, he lives, you know, er, about 35 miles from the base, and we met him and his
family and er talked about the pending CM and he was upbeat and still he knew he'd be punished
because the deck was stacked against him, but he wasn't defeated, he was, he said, he still believes in
the constitution and he, that he thinks he did the right thing, and, er, maybe a coupla the steps were
made legally in the sense of the orders to report to the his commanding officer for counseling, he's, in
hindsight he probably should have obeyed that order because that one didn't go back to the President
it's one the one about being deployed that did.

34.36 But er he, you know, he, kind of maybe misunderstood his initial counselor’s advice, and er so he
knew, he knew he had made a few mistakes tactically along the way, but he was still opti, up-beat and
optimistic. So there was the hand of god out there (ASK tries to interrupt) in that we met accidentally, I
had never met him before, never spoken to him on the phone, never had emailed him at all, it just,
bizarre, there I go down to support him and I run into him on the base, and that's a huge base, I don't
know, it's about 5,000 acres

ASK: Right. Well that's called a divine appointment (laughs)

CK: Yes!

ASK: Yeah, a divine appointment. Erm, So you met him, you had a chance to sit in his home with him,
and get to know him

CK: Yes (while she's still talking)

ASK: and his wife and he was upbeat, he was optimistic, (Kerchner talks over her saying what sounds like
'real ? children') he was realistic about what he was facing

CK: H hmmm

35.26 ASK: Pardon... (they talk over each other)

CK: Children...beautiful children, you know, I have grand kids about the same age, and er, it's a beautiful
family, sm, you know, middle class home in the suburbs, and er, his wife's supportive of his decision and,
everything was, looked fine I mean we knew there were going to be difficulties next days, you know,
getting, he kind of, I , I kind of thought he, he detected that he might not be might not be dismissed
from the army because he thought his new attorney was pretty sharp, 'n er, but he would get punished
for some of the things he did and might have to do some time, and and er in prison for it, maybe or
whatever, but he was still upbeat

36.05 ASK: So, when you left his house that evening, ahm, it was with a sense that, you know, things
were going to be, er, not go smoothly the following day, but they would at least go fairly, maybe

CK: Right. He thought he, thought that er, he had a chance of getting across the message er er of of why
he did this, and that, and that, n...

ASK:H hmmm

CK:
and that he still believes in the constitution and and what he did and we felt like kindred souls talking to
each other, we talked for about two and a half hours, him my friend and his wife and him, 'n the kids
were, the kids were all aware of what their daddy was standing up for, I, i tried to not talk in front of the
kids and I said at one point do the kids know what's happening, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they do, so

ASK:, How old are the children?

CK: Well let's see now, about, mmmm, say, what's, what's 6th grade, how old would a girl be in 6th
grade

ASK: Mmmmm, probably about ten or 11 years old maybe (CK talks over her)

CK: 10 or 11 maybe, and then there was another one about, I would say 8, or, or 7, and another one
about 2, so er, maybe 2 or 3

37.11 but they're nice kids, Christian home, er, Pili is a very, er, devout, low key, calm quiet type person,
they, they got Pizza, we had a little, you know, they treated us all to pizza there, and a little wine and
pizza, two and a half hours we, we we (can't make word out) about everything 'n like I say, it was like
kindred souls, talking to each other. We both knew we were, we believed in, in god, we bel... in the oath
...at the end you say so help me god, we both believed that we were living up to the oath to the best of
our ability so help us god, we, we didn't take our oaths as just words, like I guess some people think it's a
ritual, you just, you know, do this ritual and say these words, that's part of, whatever, being a, being a
senator or joining the military, it doesn't mean anything after that, that's what some people think.

38.06 Both of, Terry and I took, take that oath seriously. Different, and we could tell that.

ASK: Yes, yes. Alright, so take us to the following morning, when you arrive at the ahm, at the CM, tell,
paint, paint a word picture for us, Wh, wh, what did you see when you arrived?

CK: Well we arrived very early, it was very cold and windy, and er, they wouldn't let anybody in the
building early, so there was a line there and everybody was freezing cold, you know, and er, they waited
till the last, the last er, ... it was 8;30 they opened the doors I believe, and the trial, the CM started at
nine, so we were all there shivering, and you know open the door, let us come in and get warmed up,
but they finally opened up the doors and you had to go through the metal detectors and the wands and
you know, stand a certain way, just like the airport drills they're doing right now... stand with the hands
out. They, they were, the er, military police there or court bailiffs, whatever they were, and security,
there were police cars everywhere, they had er half the (can't make word out) on that ? blocked off so
you couldn't bring any vehicles close to the entrance of the court

39.22 er, I don't know what they were thinking, like somebody would, you know, whatever, I mean they,
they, we, somebody, some soldier told the one person that they were told that we could be potentially
violent, I mean hhuh, we're peace loving constitutional people, it's the other side that's, that's been
always been the one introducing violence into this issue as exampled by the (can't make this out???)
union goons, beating up people at er, at the town hall meetings er, you know last August, but er, a year
before (can't make this out???) but er, um, anyway, they, they were very apprehensive of, of us and er,
we all got in there eventually er, and I looked around the courtroom and I wanted to figure out if it was
full, it was packed, so I said, I wonder how many people are here, so I counted all the seats, there was
60, right, there was, and it was declared by the court security, the bailiffs, or whatever you wanna call
'em, er, in military uniforms, that they were going to admit any other people on a standing room only
basis,

40.30 and er, there were people standing around the walls, mostly in most cases the military got up and
gave their seats er, to people who wanted to sit down, but there also was a closed circuit camera to feed
to another room, and, so I don't know how many people were in the other room the first day, if there
were any, or or if that was full, I don't know. There was also press outside that never got into the room,
er, er they were out there, there... we saw them at lunchtime, they were freezing (laughs), but er, the
room was packed, and er at 9 O'clock, it's the, you know, all rise, and the the Judge comes in, so, there
were, we, we quickly learned before we, that there were a few...of the classic Obots there too, there
was ah, maybe about 3 or 4 of them, and er, 2 for cer for sure but the vast majority of the people were
the patriots there to support Lakin

41. 27 ASK: Huhmmmmm. So then what happened, Ah, Also I, I noted that Reverend Manning was there
as well and you may know that er (he talks over her)

CK: He didn't get there the first day. Reverend Manning showed up (she talks over CK) on the second
day. I believe, I believe it was either the first day in the afternoon, or the second day, I'd have to check
my notes as to exactly, he wasn't there in the morning though, but anyway uhm, his (entrance ?), it was
interesting, er OK well, let's go through the trial here a little bit. So they all rise, and we learn that er, Mr
Puckett is speaking that that Terry is gonna plead guilty to the first count of disobeying orders, basically
the charges were broken down to disobeying orders as one count and missing movement as the other
and, ah, the disobeying orders part er that he was gonna plead guilty to, so I think what happened is,
that Terry kinda knew there was gonna be some kind of er plea bargaining, or whatever you want to talk
about, but he didn't know the extent of things, and I think he probably didn't meet a lot with Neal prior
to the actual trial starting, probably the fir... I saw, I saw Terry go in earlier, er, they left him in but the
other people had to stand out in the cold, but they left him in because he's part of the court process,
you know

42.46 so the lawyers got in and the Judges and the bailiffs and all that, so he was in there, he was
probably meeting with his lawyer and they...I get the feeling after the fact that, that er, that Neal
Puckett (NP after this) didn't spend a lot of time briefing his client as to what was going to happen till
the actual day of the events, but anyway, they decided to plead guilty to the, to the er disobeying orders
and the rest of the morning was spent, basically, for hours the judge kept going over with Terry, do you
know what you're doing, do you agree with this, this whole like the Miranda rights are you giving up all
your rights to a defense here on these charges of disobeying orders, do you fully understand this, do you
know what the maximum penalty could be, 18 months in the, in er in prison, you know, er. So, that was
the whole morning, er going o, just... going over all the details of pleading guilty to those, to those
charges.

43.44 So er, at that point, er, they go then, to the er, to the next count, which is missing movement
which they pleaded not guilty to, and then, then of course you've got to get into the, er, the voir dire
part, er, they, they, they they bring in the panel then, and they, they had 10, and they ask 'em a bunch
of questions, and er, eliminated two of 'em, and then they started the CM on, erm the the prosecution
put on, er, their, their their case and that was the rest of the day, and they made of course Lt Col Lakin
look like the worst soldier that ever that ever served in the army er, ah, so (ASK interrupts) so that was
the rest of the day, that's what the...the prosecution rested their case, so, if you have any specific
questions about what went on, what wet on in the prosecution's case I'd be happy to answer 'em

44.45 ASK: Well I wanna know...er, the prosecution, did they, were they, first of all, were these
seasoned JAG officers, or, or, how (he talks over her)

CK: No they were more junior. The original JAG officer that was assigned to Lt col Lakin's prosecution, er
he, you may remember in the preliminary hearing, he, he at one point, had told one of the constables or
bailiffs there that er that if Terry doesn't behave himself tazer him, do you remember that?

ASK: Yes, yes I do

CK: That guy, that guy was removed from the team, he was the, uh I guess the lead prosecutor, er I think
he was a major, but I'm not positive, or a Lt Cl, but he was removed from the, from the case because of
that and i understand her got er some sort of disciplinary action, er I don't know a letter or something in
his file but he...I heard down there at the trial that he had decided to leave the military. So, the original
prosecutor was off the case and the new team were all younger people erm

45.56 I, I believe there was a Captain and one very young Major...2 males and one female, and we didn't
think they were doing a very good job, because we thought that Neal Puckett was going to - they didn't
address the Constitution at all, as far as why, Lt Col Lakin after 18 years of, of honorable and exemplary
(he did say it this way) service, would, would refuse an order to deploy to Afghanistan, when he had
been there before and he'd been to Bosnia in combat zone and has been decorated! So we thought that,
well they can, they can do all they want, but Neal Puckett's a very experienced lawyer and he's gonna,
he's gonna basically er clean their clocks (ASK talks over him)

ASK: Bring that out

CK: Yeah, in the defense section, but boy, were we surprised about Neal, huh

46.48 I mean, when they, when the prosecution rested at the end of the first day they had, er, they had
er basically called a whole bunch of witnesses including the commanding officer, to just, testify to the
fact that, er, that Terry was, er supposed to report to Fort Campbell that he had er acquired plane
tickets to go down there 'n then he didn't show up for the plane, and that was the basis of missing
movement but he also on his orders could have driven down there by privately owned vehicle, so er in
the cross examination, Neal kept er hitting on this that Terry didn't go did not take that plane, he didn't
miss the movement of the unit, of the military unit, he just missed flying down on a plane, and he could
of also drove down or taken a bus down, so a legal technicality type defence that, that, that he, that he
had the option of getting anywhere he was ordered, anyway he could, to get to Fort Campbell, so to
charge him for missing movement by not being on that plane was not, was not legal,

47.58 but erm, in the end they convicted of him anyway, but that was the, the the the prosecution was
trying to show that he had a duty to be on that plane and er the cross examination was, well he didn't
have duty to be on that plane, he had a duty to report to Fort Campbell he just re, he didn't disobey
orders to report to Fort Campbell even though he pleaded guilty to that he had a duty to be on that
plane, because he could have, if he was gonna report to Fort Campbell he could of drove down with a
private vehicle because that was allowed on those orders, or he could have taken a bus, so they, ... so
basically the missing movement charge was piled on by the government, they already got him to plead
guilty to disobeying orders, and he did that because he was telling the truth because he did disobey the
orders and he had no way of defending himself as to the reason why - they would not allow discovery,
or witnesses, and they had, the the the judge, said, to the, to the to the, er to Lakin's attorney and to
everybody in, er, that was in the panel or in the courtroom, that the orders are presumed legal.

49.07 You know, so that says if the orders are presumed legal, he disobeyed 'em, so he pleaded guilty to
that

ASK: Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. He, now, now, er we're talking with Cdr Charles Kerchner, US Navy retired,
who himself had brought a case, er er challenging Obama's records, and er, it wasn't heard by the, it
went all the way to the Supreme Court, and er attended the CM of Lt Cl Terry Lakin, who now sits in a
cell at Fort Leavenworth federal penitentiary. Erm, ah, Commander Kerchner, Terry Lakin had two
attorney's. He had a civil attorney, to begin with, Paul Jensen, ah, what was the story with that... wh wh
why was he removed from the case?

CK: All I know is, is what I heard, I don't really know why for sure, but uh, when he, at the preliminary
hearing when all means of defense were removed, the er, ability to gain discovery of documents, to er
call witnesses to defend Lt Cl Lakin's decision to, to consider the officers oath his prime directive and to
judge all orders as to whether they were lawful against the constitution which is the fundamental law of
the land, it's not just a piece of parchment paper on display in Washington, that's the fundamental law
of the land and all orders, a military officer is supposed to be able to, have the intelligence to question
whether the order is lawful against criminal law, but also the constitutional law the law of the land.

50.49 If a, if an order is unconstitutional, you're not supposed to be, to obey it. That support and defend
the constitution is the only thing you're required to do by oath, but anyway, once, once Jensen was not
able to get discovery, or be able to call witnesses, or put up any kind of defense at all, on the
constitutional basis, it was strictly a matter of mitigating damages, in, in under the UCMJ as to how
much time he was gonna be able to do, er be, be sentenced to, and with the judge saying that the
orders are declared presumed legal, er, at that point, i believe Terry Lakin and his advisors, er decided
that it was best to get a UCMJ expert at this point to try to mitigate the amount of time that he would
be spending in prison, and Paul Jensen has no experience at all that I know of, with the, with the military
law, so at some point, er a decision was made to hire another attorney who was a UCMJ expert. Now I, I
would have thought that Paul Jensen could have stayed in as part of the team but for whatever reason
he didn't, but, now the question I have in my mind is how did they get to Neal Puckett? How, did, how,
like the two balls er, the balls in motion, the people in motion ... that, that, that Terry and I met there
accidentally at the, er, Fort Meade...billets, lodging building.

52.19 Who introduced him to Neal Puckett and how did that come about? Er, I was, I heard he was at
some kind of a fund raising dinner, and er, that Neal was introduced to Terry or Terry was introduced to
Neal and, on the basis that's Neal's this high powered successful lawyer, well known, erm, military law
attorney, and er, he, he, you know maybe he can help you, he can, he can er, really do a much better job
than Paul Jensen on this could now at military law that's that's the prime er concern here and the
constitutional issues were not going to be allowed. So, how did, was that an accident? Was that a
coincidence? Was it arranged? Who arranged it? I of, I wondered about that after I saw the case ended,
because when we get to the second day, after the def, after the prosecution rested on the first day, the
second day we get to the, the er, defense, the first thing Neal does, is rests. He doesn't even put up a
defense.

53.25 ASK: He rested? He rested the defense?

CK: Yes! He rested.

ASK: What a shock that must have been.

CK: Right, we were, I (she talks over him) in the the audience was like, looking around, woahwoah, rest?
He put on no defense at all.

ASK: What did Lt Cl Lakin do at that moment? Did he appear surprised?

CK: I think, I think he was briefed about this by Neal Puckett that this is what we were gonna do and
we're gonna make all our arguments during the sentencing phase, as to why you did this and everything,
and try but...if you know Lt Cl Lakin, he's a very humble er guy, he he, he was very unexpressive through
the whole trial. He just sat there. Er, (she talks over him)

ASK: Kind of meek?

CK (Says something like 'that's not the word I would choose' - I think he misheard it as 'weak')

ASK: Would you characterize him as meek?

CK: Yeah, he's a nurturer, he's a doctor, he, the military is, you look at the military, you think of warriors,
well, you know, certain people are alpha male warriors, but he's a doctor, he's not there to charge up
the hill with a bayonet, he's there to fix up the wounds after you've been injured charging up the hill
(laughs).

54.38 you know, he's a nurturing, kind, gentle man, that's, he's a doctor, and a very experienced doctor
with expertise in 3, 3 specialties. Ah, but anyway, so he just sat there and took all of this, and I think
that's part of the problem, when Neal Puckett put him on the stand in the sentencing phase he just
decimated this man, because this man, he's not a, he's not a, he's not a forceful person in a physical
intimidation type situation, that, that Neal Puckett presented to him not physical, verbal intimidation, er
but very forceful, er I'd call it interrogation of him during the sentencing phase. He just broke Lt Cl Lakin,
because Lt Cl Lakin is a very quiet, humble, humble man, he he's very strong in his convictions but yet in
his outward demeanor he's he's he's not a very forceful assertive person. I can't describe it, I don't know
if you know what I mean.

55.41 ASK: Yeah. He's mild mannered.

CK: Yeah, very, very humble, you know, very humble. He'll do anything for his for his soldiers, he was, he
was he was testified in the sentencing phase, how in a, and one of his character witnesses, that that he
would take his spare time over in Afghanistan, that he was trained in ah, as an osteopath, so he was
trained in manipulation and massage and he would, these pilots in these helicopters would come back
from action and they'd be all tensed up, and he would, even though he was off duty he would, he would
have his er massage table there, and and and give these people er, er er an osteopathic type, relaxation
type massage to rely to reduce their stress, so yea, yea, (she talks over him) but anyway...

ASK: But let me, let me get back... (he talks over her)

CK: ... the defense rested...It just shocked us

ASK: Yeah, yeah.

56.31 ASK: But before, before we get to that I wanna ask you, did the eligibility question ever come up
at all?

CK: Only, er, the prosecution showed the videotape that Safeguard our Constitution er, put up, you
know where, where Terry explained at Paul Jensen's office, they videotaped him explaining why he was
gonna disobey orders

ASK: Right and I think... (he talks over her)

CK: The prosecution used that to prove it was premeditated, that, that was there to show the the the
court martial panel, which is like, they're called the panel, it's like the jury, the members of the panel, er,
to show that er, that he planned this. That, that was their reason for showing that. And we were
shocked that the prosecution showed this 'cause when they, that particular video was very powerful.
That Terry Lakin in that video is the one I should have seen in the court room, but I didn't see it. He was,
he was humble and quiet all the time.

ASK: Ah, OK

CK: I think, I think his counselor told him to do that.

57.40 ASK: Now let's go to day 2, and day two, this was the, this was the day that the, the defense was
supposed to present it's case and his, the, Neal Puckett, the attorney for Terry Lakin, stood up and said
the defense rests.

CK: Exactly
ASK: So (he talks over her)

CK: And we were all shocked

ASK: So then what happened, after the shock, a shock wave must have just, you know, re...(he talks over
her)

CK: Yeah!

ASK: ...gone through the entire court room. What then? What happened then?

CK: Well, then the judge, er procedures and things are announced, and they go, they, they er, they, they
er, the panel has to go out and decide if he's guilty or innocent of moving, er missing movement and,
and er, they, they go out, and they deliberate, and they find him guilty. And then after that (she
interrupts)

ASK: I, I'm sorry, I want to jump in here because I, I want to add something here. You, you said, you said
in previous interviews that you learned that Lt Lakin had been questioning Obama's eligibility for over 2
years.

CK: That's right.

ASK: And that he went, he really did go through chain of command and that, tell us, tell us what you
know about that.

58.51 CK: Well, there's a, there's a formal procedure to question the leadership in your chain of
command and that's called article one thirty eight, and he did that. He wrote letters to his elected
officials, he also, er, tried to avail himself of what soldiers in the military can do when they feel that
there's something is wrong and they need, er, they need help to get it resolved because the military
system is, is not helping them and it's called a congr a request for a congressional inquiry, he, he tried
that. They didn't even answer him for any of this thing, he just got, he just got no answers
'
ASK: So, not, not even from his elected representatives?

CK: No. None. Not no answers back, none. Same thing happened to me.

ASK: So he, he tried to use the, tried to get your elected representatives. No response, no nothing.

CK: No responses. Nothing

59.43 ASK: He, and then, and then he used a a (he talks over her)...

CK: And we found out why now because the Congress was told by that CRS Memo, you know? Basically
the fix was in. The congress wasn't gonna answer people that knew what they were talking about, and if
they could, if they thought they they could buffalo you they'd give you some nonsense answer but in the
case of myself and Lt Cl Lakin they did not answer us, we didn't even get a form letter
ASK: Ow, Wow. He, he ... (he talks over her)

CK: ...So I learned he had been fighting as long and hard as I had and got treated exactly the same way
inside the military as I was being outside. Total, total, no interest no response by the, the the elected
officials, in his case also the military, in my case, er, whoever I whoever I wrote to I didn't get an answer
and whoever he wrote to he didn't get an answer. They just (she talks over him) stonewalled

1.00:38 ASK: Let me ask you this. Do you know who the elected officials were, that he, ah, contacted,
that he tried to get help from?

CK: Er, I don't know their names, you'd have to contact er (she talks over him) ... his trusted (?) and his
advisers (?) He lived at Woodbine, Maryland so (she's still talking over him)

ASK: Maryland, right.

CK: Yeah, you could look it up who juris, who has the district of Woodbine Maryland

ASK: Right, right.

CK: But er anyway at certain points there were also (she talks over him)

ASK: And who were your, who were the elected of, who were the elected officials that you contacted,
that didn't respond to you either?

CK: Well, my Congressional Representative was named Charlie Dent, and er, he was a Republican, and
my Senator er Senator was er Arlen Specter. Now, there you go, Arlen Specter

ASK: There you go.

CK: Yeah right...

CK: but hes's on the judiciary committee,

ASK: Yeap, yeap

CK: he knew darn well what I was asking about, you know, he's a lawyer, you know, and the other one
was Senator Casey ...a Democrat, you know, I didn't expect anything back from him, but for Senator
Specter, a Republican, I thought he woulda answered me. He didn't!

1:01:47 CK: And I, and I wrote (she talks over him) I wrote to Senator McCain, never
answered me er, I wrote to er, I, I have a, I'll have to go the through the list, there's probably a
coupla dozen of them, all the key er, leaders of the various committees. I wrote to the
people, like you know, like Michelle Bachmann, all the people that you, that you thought would
be interested. Never got an answer. No answer. Everybody is (she mutters something)
...people the letters I wrote were 5 pages letters, they were well documented as to everything I
had done to try to get this ...(she talks over him) this was prior to me suing, this was prior to my
lawsuit I wrote these letters. I wrote to the President of the United States, I wrote to the Vice
President. Chairman of Homeland Security, er, Chertoff, Secretary, rather. So anyway Terry had
been doing the same thing, he'd been doing the same thing I just didn't know it. Everybody thinks
he just stood up arbitrarily March of 2010 and said, 'I'm not going to Afghanistan'. No, he had
spent a year and a half prior to that, trying to get the question answered, is Obama
constitutionally eligible to be commander in chief. He didn't believe he was. (She interrupts)

1:03:00 ASK: And even his, even his own chain of command, his, his direct, er, er commander,
and all the way on up, nobody answered him? What did they say? Shut up and do your job, or...

CK: I, I, to paraphrase it I think they just kinda shrugged and looked down, you know what I
mean, like nobody wants to touch this with a ten foot pole like a hot potato.

ASK: Wauw.

CK: They gave him No. real. answer. The...if the, any kind of paraphrased type answer was
'can't help ya'. Know what I mean?

ASK: Hm hmmm

CK: Nobody wanted to touch it. He was like, pushed aside, like a, like boy this guy is, you know
whoo, we don't wanna talk, we don't wanna be bothered with him, he, he, I think every body's
worried about their career, anybody who, anybody who would try to help him would go down
with him.

ASK: 01:03:53 So this means that the courts, the Congress, his State Legislators, the military,
the media, had closed off every avenue, that he had, for redress of grievance, here.

CK: Right

ASK: He had nowhere to go, he had, I mean they really boxed him in

CK: He looked at his oath and said, do I give up, or do I try to force the system to get attention
to this, by refusing my the orders by Obama who I consider to be an illegal President, and that's
what he chose to do, he basically fell on his sword to draw attention to the fact that we have an
illegal President sitting in the office ordering 30,000 troops to go to Afghanistan

ASK: Agh, incredible, just incredible

CK: The man, in effect, well you want to say martyred himself to try to get some national
attention on this issue, because nobody was, was paying attention to him inside the military, his
repres, elected officials in Congress, the people who are tasked to respond to congressional
inquiries filed by soldiers, didn't respond to him, didn't answer him.

1:05:02 That's the most shocking charge that I heard, that the requests for congressional
inquiries filed by a soldier were ignored
ASK: And not only that, but an Officer!

CK: Yeah! Ignored. Ignored. I think, this all goes to the basic conclusion, er Andrea, and is that
they know the answer; they just don't want to face the truth. They all know that Obama is not
eligible, but nobody wants to step up to the plate and face the issue head on. That's why nobody
was answering anybody. They know the truth. They can't handle the truth

ASK: Ha! Gee I've heard that line before!

CK: Yes!

ASK: Jack Nicholson

CK: Yeah! (They both chuckle)

ASK:

CK: but anyway I just wanted to recount when you asked about, er Reverend Manning. You
know, he did arrive at a certain point, and I did notice that, wherever he sat there was these
constables or bailiffs in military uniforms sitting to the left and right of him and as (?) pointed
out I also noticed there was always 3 sitting behind me, and, and er, I think they had certain
people flagged, I think they knew who we were.

1:06:12 And er (she interrupts)

ASK: And they didn't want any trouble and (they talk over each other)

CK: Yeah we remarked (or were marked?) that we were potential trouble, but anyway, at one of
the recesses, these, a coupla these security people come in, and they drag Reverend Manning out,
and charged him with trespassing. We find out a coupla hours later, he was, he was er, he was in,
in in incarcerated in an interrogation room, and he was interrogated and two people from his
congregation with him were in separate interrogation rooms, and they were all, he's being
charged with trespassing, and trying to, they, he was a, he was a he, he his car was searched and
he was waved onto the gate by the guard he was granted permission to come onto the base, he
just went through, they said he went through the wrong gate, but he had come through the same
gate the earlier, the day before in the afternoon, so that refreshed my memory I guess, he did get
there in the afternoon the first day, so he, he said that er, ...he told the truth, he told the truth (I
can't make this out) so hour after hour they were comparing the stories of all two of his
congressional, oh, not congress er congregational members that came with him and him, and, and
they all looked the same, you know. The car was searched, and they were waved through. They
did not trespass. They tried to get them him to sign statements, that er, whatever was in 'em, I
don't know, he refused to sign any statements, they finally after about 2 or 3 hours let them go
and he rejoined us in, in the courtroom

1:07:38 but he, he let it be noted that there's gonna be a, he's not gonna, he, his civil rights were
violated. Now they were the only black er, attendees in the, in the gallery there supporting Lt Cl
Lakin, the only black people in the audience, patriots just like everybody else, and they were
dragged out and charged with trespassing for, said they went in the wrong gate and were
therefore trespassing (she talks over him) the guard on that gate let them through, and there
were about a dozen other people in that room, white people, who weren't dragged out, who came
through the same gate with, the same day the same gate and the same guard searched their cars
and let them through. Er what kind of a system do we have, that he was targeted, I think, for
they new his name, and and and you know how he calls Obama long legged mack daddy and all
that and he's really very outspoken . I think he was targeted for harassment

ASK: Could be. That could very well be. (he talks over her)

1: 08:39 CK: I believe there was one, one bailiff watching me on the standing on the side
always eyeballing, every time I looked over he was looking at me, and these 3 guys
sitting... they were waiting for me to do something, I think, to give them an excuse too, I don't
know. But er, that was really very, so the only people that were dragged out was Reverend
Manning and they were the three black people. Now w w w why? Why did that happen? They
accuse our side of the R word, right, but look at what they did, they took the three black people
in the, in the gallery, who are patriots, and drag them out and interrogate them for two or 3
hours. What's going on with our country? (She talks over him) And also, during this recess, they
they accused us of, of being potentially violent, one of the, one of the Obots, who happens to be
a lawyer, and a military officer in the Marine Corps reserves assaulted me, you heard about that?

ASK: Assaulted you?

CK: Yes, assaulted me

ASK: No!

CK: Colonel Sullivan, didn't you hear the stories on the internet about Col Sullivan assaulting
me (she talks over him)

ASK: Oh! Lt Col Dwight Sullivan, a Jag Lawyer? Yes I have. Why don't you (he talks over her)
explain that

CK: He's a full Colonel, I think, but, he was, during a recess, er, an attorney, by the name of er,
William Bair (sp?) was debating him on the 14th Amendment, because they're always saying the
14th Amendment is one of the grounds that grants Obama natural born citizenship, that 'n the
Wong Kim Ark Case, they, they they er intellectually er dishonestly argue that those things are
granting natural born citizenship status to Obama, when there's nothing in the 14th Amendment.
The word natural born isn't even in there.

1:10:20 but anyway he was debating this with er, with er, William Bair, and I was 2 rows away,
and I was overhearing this, and I just sorta leaned over the row a little bit and said, er, the words
natural born are not even in the 14th Amendment, and er, and he said something back to me and
I said well, well for you to keep arguing that the 14th Amendment grants natural born
citizenship, when, when the words natural born aren't even in the 14th Amendment is
intellectually dishonest, and at that point, he blew his cork. He got up, he got up out of his chair,
face was red, started quickly moving down the row, er, you know how in a movie theatre you
have to move round peoples knee, like, because the rows are tight, that's how it was, he almost
trampled over two women, to get to the side isle, and er, he's yelling, Sir! Sir! Sir! all the way, er
and my row was empty towards the, towards the wall so I, I moved over there because this guy
was coming at me hot 'n heavy, and, yelling sir, sir, sir, and he ran up to me - did you ever see
the movie Full Metal Jacket?

1:11:28 ASK: Yes!

CK: How the

Marine Corps drill instructors stick their face right in your face and then try to break down the
recruits did you ever see that movie or another movie where they do that?

ASK: Ya (he talks over her)

CK: He came...running up to me full bore, in a physically intimidating, threatening manner, face

flushed red, I mean, bristling, a Marine Colonel, you know with a high 5 haircut, an' all that, and
he stuck his face right in my face and said 'You will NOT call me dishonest!', and you know I'm
standing there and I'm like 'hey, this guy's not gonna intimidate me!' So I just looked him right
back in the eye, I mean I, 33 years in the Military, a Commander, er, led men in the military, led
men in civilian life, I practiced in the martial arts, the mixed martial arts, Judo, Taekwondo, I've
dealt with physical confrontations many, many, many times, and also with angry people,
whatever, I, this guy's not going to intimidate me, I know, I,
I said to myself, 'I know what you're trying to do, you're trying to eyeball me and make me, and
make, and intimidate me, you couldn't win your (the?) debate so you're just trying to physically
intimidate me

CK: So i just stared him right back in the eye, 'nd he was toe to toe, eyeball to eyeball, and I said
back to him, 'I did not call you dishonest' I called you intellectually dishonest

ASK: laughs

CK: but when this happened, he came running up to me with these constables or bailiffs going
hho ho ho ho (note, not 'laughing', something else) you know, like somethings coming down and
they were watching, just watching, and this happened all about 30 or 50 seconds and um, and and
he said, er I said, er, I called you intellectually dishonest, and he sez, I'm not, I'm not dishonest,
and I said well you are when you, when you apply the 14th Amendment, er, er against ? natural
born citizen and he says, 'I never said that' and I said 'well you say it on your blog all the time',
and I said I read your stuff, you're doing it all the time, you're doing it over there 'n this is just
paraphrasing the conversation, but he was really hot, he was in my face and at a certain point I
said I gotta take charge of this, this man is tryin' to bluff me, he's tryin' to physically intimidate
me, and I said, I've got start asking him some questions in turn, to turn, turn, turn the tables on
him and that's what I did, i said 'tell me', I said, 'do you, or do you not believe that he, being
Obama, is a natural born citizen, I went right to the base of it, right, and he didn't answer me. He
wouldn't answer me.
1:13:52 and that's when I knew he was being intellectually dishonest, because if he couldn't
answer that question he had doubts himself, but yet he's arguing that he is, right? So he, he, he
I'm staring him, i'm staring him right back at him and he's staring right at me, we're eyeball to
eyeball, and i saw him starting to twitch and I, looking in his eyes I could see he was all bluff,
he's a hollow man, there was nothing there, so, he wouldn't answer me, so I waited another
second or two, and I said real loud, I said DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT believe he is a natural
born citizen, and at that point, I mean the guards were all went ho ho ho, there's something
gonna happen here

ASK: (she chuckles appreciatively)

CK: (laughs too) because i was turning the tables on him now, and actually he started to shake,
you could see his eyes twitching, his skin startin' to twitch, his body started shaking, he bruffly
(sp?), he never answered me, he bruffly turned around and ran back to his seat, picked up his
book, his tablet and his pen, and, and he started to try to write something, and I looked, I
observed him, and his hand was shaking like a leaf, he couldn't write

1:14:57 ASK: Oh. Ha!

CK: So (she talks over)

ASK: You called his bluff

CK: Yeah. He tried to break me, and I broke him, and he he, he's a, he, he has no truth on his
side, he's hiding behind his tough, the tough Marine Corps Colonel veneer, but he's not, he's not,
inside he knows he's not being truthful and his argument is hollow just like he is, and the tru, I
was arguing the truth and he knew it, and and he broke, and he ran

ASK: Yeah was he one, one of the er (he talks over her)...members of the prosecution?

CK: the point is (she interrupts) he...I was gonna say, just to finish up, who is being accused of
potentially being violent, and who's violent again? Who's potentially violent again?

ASK: Yea

CK: The Obots, running up to us...and the lawyer said Charles that's fully physical, that's, that's
technical assault, he didn't batter you, but that's assault. If you wanna bring charges on this I'll be
your witness...I, I, I I'm not gonna pursue that, you know

ASK: Right, right.

1:16:00 ASK: right, right, right right, er is er, was Colonel Sullivan a member of the prosecution team?
CK: No, but he did know 'em, and they knew him.

ASK: OK

CK: They were, there were talking to the, not only the prosecution team, but the defense team. Now can
you, why, why, what the, they, Neal Puckett and the JAG officer knew, knew er Col Sullivan very well,
and at some point, somebody saw a member of the defense team, give a, it was either to er, Col
Sullivan, or this partner there named Philip Cave, another super obot, who's also an attorney, er, a CD.

Now what was on it, I don't know, but no electronic equipment was allowed in the courtroom, and here,
the defense team passes a CD to the two Obots that are in the room (chuckles) and we're going what's
going on here?

ASK: Yeah, yeah

CK: What's going on here?

1:17:00 ASK: Well, well didn't you also say...well maybe I'm jumping ahead here, but the prosecution
showed the video of Lt er, er Col Lakin er um, talking into the camera about why he did what he did

CK: Right, right.

ASK: did they did that during the arguments? The final arguments?

CK: Errrr, I think it was during the er, I'd have to look at my notes, now, I think it was during the er, the
sentencing phase. They want they wanted to show pre-meditation

ASK: OK, that's right, you did mention that. That's right, which is ironic because in it he talks about the
whole reason why he's doing it, so I mean, there it was, in the courtroom on the record...(he talks over
her)
CK: No wait a minute, I just looked...it was on, er, the 15th the second day, at about 3pm, they put it on,
and this was in the (pause) I believe it was in the sentencing phase, but you know, don't, don't get me -
I'm almost sure it was in the sentencing phase, at that point

1:18:06 But er, they put it on to show the pre-meditation. They wanted to get the maximum sentence

ASK: Yea, and the irony of it is, is that the very, the whole reason for, for Col Lakin doing what he did,
was On that video.

CK: Yes! Yes, and then after (she talks over him) the video was done...

ASK: And they wouldn't allow it as evidence (ha ha (he talks over her) but at the same time there is was,
on the record

CK: Yeah I know and the defense wouldn't use it, but the prosecution did, and when, when it was done,
the audience applauded, and the judge, she hadda like rap the gavel, and tell the gallery - she calls it the
gallery - to be quiet.

1:18:42 ASK: Hmm, yea. I wanna talk with you about the second day, um or, or maybe it was the third
day, when Neal Puckett himself, his own defense attorney, turned on him.

CK: That, that was, that was the

ASK: And broke him down

CK: Yep, Yep they (she talks over him)

ASK: Tell us about that

CK: When it came to, to the, to the sentencing phase, er, Neal allowed his, er he he had, er Lt Col Lakin
make an unsworn statement which which was not subject to cross examination, and i thought this was
going to be used, and the gallery thought it was going to be used, to present his arguments, that, that he
did this to live up to his oath to the constitution, and that this would be a positive opportunity for Lt Col
Lakin to, to show why he did this, and that's not, that's not what Neal Puckett did, he used this to er,
demoralize and, and throw under the bus Lt Col Lakin's honor, self-esteem, and the United States
Constitution.

1:19:50 He, he he, he kept beating away at, er, verbally, as, as only a, an expert attorney is capable of
doing when they have someone on the stand, they can tear you apart. That's what he did. Like, you
would expect him to be doing this to a hostile witness. He, he said he said, he drew an analogy, and said
that, Terry you're a doctor, and he drew an analogy of cancer, he said, you're, you're he said you find
out you have cancer and you go to a doctor. Doc says you have cancer, and you go to another doctor
and he says you don't have cancer, but you refuse to give up on your belief that you have cancer, and so
you become obsessed that you have cancer, and you keep doing things, wrong things to treat, to get
treatment when you don't really have the cancer.

This is, if this is the analogy with the Constitution, if you believe there was a cancer on the constitution,
that, you know, oh, that he called Obama a Native born citizen, ha, he didn't even use the term natural
born. You felt that this, that he wasn't eligible, but, you know, other people told you you were wrong
but you didn't wanna believe it, because you have this obsession with the Constitution, you're obsessed
with it, you, you, and he had a, he had the picture of his children on the wall, and the family is in the first
row, and he's saying when are you going to stop thinking of yourself and your obsession to the
Constitution, and start thinking of these children up here on the wall, when are you going to do
something for them, instead of for yourself?

1:21:08 ASK: Sighs

CK: Can, can you imagine this, half an hour, fully...(she talks over him)

ASK: Wow

CK an HOUR of this, brow beating him, intimidating him, er, cross ex, you know, like cross examining
him, as if he's - Terry after half an hour of this looked like, you ever see a picture of a Vietnam war
prisoner that’s been beaten up and mentally duressed to the point that they don't know what they're
doing, and they're forced to make statements on tv, their heads down and broken?
ASK: Yep

CK: It was terrible

ASK: It makes you wanna cry (he talks over her) Oh my god.

CK: People in the audience were crying. Neal Puckett ambushed him on the stand, he, he told, he posted
on his own blog, that he surprised Terry, Terry did not know what he was gonna do. He wanted Terry to
show remorse (she talks over)

ASK: gosh (or wow)

CK: He wanted Terry to show remorse to get the letter sentence, but he didn't just make Terry show
remorse, he destroyed Terry. He said that, that you're upset that, that the cancer on the Constitution
was a mirage. A mirage! His, in other words, his, his oath and belief in the Constitution, that Obama has
a question of his eligibility, that's a mirage. There is no cancer on the Constitution, and you're just
obsessed with this, and, and you wouldn't let it go to to the point of hurting your own children, and your
own family, and are, are you gonna stop thinking of yourself now, and think of your children, and he's
pointing at the picture of those three young children on the all with his wife, I mean this was, (She talks
over)

ASK: Oh how horrible

CK: this was mental torture. (she talks over)

ASK: horrible

CK: Now if you're (she talks over) now if you're under trial for potentially 42 months in prison, you're
under a lot of stress already, right?

ASK: Yes
1:22:41 CK: He was under tremendous stress, and his own defense counsel was tearing him apart,
destroying him, making him look like he was a selfish individual who was only thinking of himself, and,
and pursuing a made-up mirage obsession that there's some, that there's some threat to the
Constitution.

ASK: Oh that's heartbreaking. You must have just wanted to get up and scream STOP

CK: I was shaking my head I just... I couldn't understand why. I said, why did they hire this attorney? He
doesn't believe, I found out later that, that er, that this Neal Puckett, and and, and the Obot Attorney,
Colonel Sullivan, who's an ACLU lawyer, by the way, in Baltimore, or he was, and then he was hired by
the government to defend the Gitmo terrorists. Did you know that? That Colonel Sullivan defended the
Gitmo terrorists? but any way they're good f, they know each other, they respect each other, but er, er...
but the worst case is that, is that Neal Puckett does not believe in the natural born citizen argument at
all! He, he thinks that if you're native born, you're eligible, and he believes that Obama is native born, he
used the term native born, he didn't use the term natural born to describe Obama (she mmms over him)

1:23:54 ASK: Mmmm.

CK: as like the eligibility requirement for Obama, he's, he said, he made, he made Terry (admit ?)... now
you believe, that, do you believe that Obama, is native born or not, Yes or No? And he said, he made
Terry say yes. So all of this is of, supposedly to show remorse, and that he's never gonna do this again,
oh, so that the panel would give him a lighter sentence, but he could have defended Terry using the
Constitution as the reason he did this. Not, not not destroy him completely

I think Terry was, er thought that possibly, if, if Neal, if he allowed Neal to do, to do whatever he wanted
to do, that he could maybe stay in the service. That was the most important thing to Terry, was to be
able to stay in the Service. He loved the army. And, I think maybe Neal said, er, er, you, basically er, that
there's a possibility that I can keep you in the Service, if you show remorse, but he didn't tell Terry at all.
He says on his own blog, erm, Neal Puckett says that he surprised his own client on the stand with his,
with his method of questioning

1:25:03 what an arrogant, arrogant... (he talks over her)

CK: And that to me, that to me is an ambush and this goes back to how did he, how did Lt Cl Lakin get
introduced to this attorney, an attorney who does does not believe in the natural born citizen eligibility
issue at all and he he believes that all you have to be is born in America . Anchor Babies could be (she
talks over him) President
ASK: In other words...He's been set up. Was he set up (he talks over her) I guess this is the question

CK: I, I can't, er, looking at what I saw, it went through my mind, how did this man, get, get to be in the
position to, to ahh, talk to Terry and get impressed to the point that he hired this attorney, because he
came with a very, a very good reputation, as being an expert in UCMJ, but the only thing is now, ... is
that the sentencing phase is not, er over, and Neal announces he has to leave early

ASK: He's leaving before the (he talks over her)

CK: He left, He left before this phase was finished

1:26:04 And he left (unclear) now what, what kind of attorney who's a hundred and ten % committed to
your client, leaves before the case is finished?

ASK: (long draw out aaaah) Somebody who's not 110% (he talks over her) committed

CK: ...that makes me think he did not have himself 110% engaged in defending Terry, Terry Lakin and
remember he said (before?) to the Court Martial that Terry was going to be convicted. Remember
that statement?

ASK: Hmmm hmm

CK: Neal Puckett said in the press some place or whatever, that Terry's gonna be convicted, there's
nothing, you know... (they talk over each other)

CK: I think, I think (she talks over him)

ASK: I think he made that statement because er, Judge Lind wouldn't allow any evidence in

CK: Right!
ASK: And wouldn't allow him to bring forward any, any um witnesses to defend him, in his defense

CK: Right, I just wonder how much, how much preparation and back, back er backroom work was done
to get ready for this, to defend er, (they talk over each other)... Lakin because he didn't (really?) believe,
he didn't believe in what Terry stood for!

ASK: It was a fait accompli (they continue to talk over each other)

CK: He didn't believe in what Terry stood for, the (She talks over him)... the constitution

ASK: It was a miscarriage

CK: as the prime directive

ASK: it was a miscarriage Shit!

1:27:15 CK: Why give our officers the oath to defend and support the Constitution, if you're not going to
do it when, when you question the, an order being unconstitutional?

ASK: that's right.

CK: It should, there should have been an all stop order issued when his question came up through the
chain of command, that says, this officer questions the constitutionality of this order, we must, you
know, the chain of command should've sent a request over to Congress or whatever to get this
investigated, to get this, this issue addressed, 'cause this officer's (?) his oath (can't make this out)

ASK: What do you, what do you, what does this tell you about the state of our military? That, that (he
talks over her) nobody will be
CK: That the leadership down in Washington DC is compromised, erm, to political correctness extreme,
and, and pol, and political, er worry about their careers more than anything else, er, they are, they are,
they are just, totally enveloped with that, that cesspool down in DC like everybody else is

ASK: And it reaches all the way down (he talks over her - can't make her out)

CK: You get away, no, no I think you get away from DC, er the, er the military is different...you get away
from that politics er and the er, you know, the (can't make this out) they are shining (?), there, one star
waiting for the second star, and playing the political game

ASK: right, right, right.

1:28:34 right

CK: So (she talks over him) when I was on active duty for training I never had to go to Washington DC, I
hated it down there, cause it's all politics

ASK: yeap, er well I understand, but his chain of command all the way down to his next, his, his, his
closest commanding officer, didn't...didn't er rise to his, his request for

CK: right (he's talking over her), but he was stationed at Walter Reade, you know, right in the middle of,
right in the middle of the Washington DC, Baltimore, you know, beltway down there, you know, I mean,
all those people there are, are, politically thinking. They don't wanna, they don't wanna touch what he
was talking about with a ten foot pole because they didn't wanna be dragged down with him because
they knew the system was gonna attempt to crush Terry Lakin. Now if more people woulda stood up,
the system couldn't of crushed him (or 'em?)

1:29:22 But because he stood up and he went (or 'was left') alone, nobody helped him, he got crushed

ASK: Right, and this is the lesson to everybody else who's even thinking about doing it (he talks over her)

CK: They threw Terry, they threw Terry, his oath to the Constitution, and the Constitution itself under
the bus. That's what Neal Puckett did. Neal Puckett threw Terry, his oath to the Constitution, and the
Constitution under the bus, just, all in an attempt to get him a lighter sentence, he destroyed, Terry
Lakin, destroyed him, as only a smart sharp lawyer can do when you have a humble man like that on the
stand, and a high stress situation like that, he destroyed him, but I tell you this, we shall not hold Terry
Lakin in any less esteem, for, for what happened, because he was ambushed, and, and it's just like,
when you're faced, n' if you were surrounded in World War II, or if you were, if you were over run, say,
at the Battle of the Bulge, you're just over run and you're out of ammunition and you're out of food and
you've fought, you fought for 3 days, the whole of the enemy's back and, and now you have no
ammunition and you're surrounded by 12 Germans with rifles pointed at you, and all you have left is
your rifle with a bayonet, no ammunition, and they tell you to surrender. You're faced with
overwhelming firepower and support. Do you surrender, or do charge him with the bayonet and get
shot down?

Now if you have a picture of your children being displayed on the wall, surrender, or be shot, and you
can live to see your children

ASK: ((is murmering mmmm hmmms throughout this

1:30:54 What, you know, this mental duress went on for an hour. He was beat up by the person who
was sent to, sent to defend him! So, he surrenders. Do we, do, do we hold the, the soldiers who were
captured and surrendered in WW2, or made prisoners of war any less heroic, because they fought the
good battle from Normandy for 3 months, and they had to surrender due to overwhelming force at
some point? No, they're heroes right? So is Terry. He fought the good battle, but he was ambushed! He
was defeated! He was tore apart by his own defense council, so he surrendered.

He had, he, he, he, his children were being displayed on the wall mother and his father, his father was in
a wheelchair, sitting in the front row, the, the defense attorney is pointing, pointing at them why don't
you start thinking of your family, why don't you start thinking of your children and pointing at the wall,
those cherubs up there, instead of yourself and your obsession with the Constitution

ASK: (sounds horror-struck, again)

CK: He broke him, he broke the man, but Terry is a hero to me. I looked at a man like a prisoner of Al
Qaeda that has been threatened to have his head cut off, or they, Vietnam prisoners, they were subject
to mental torture, and forced to say things they didn't want to say, that's the way i looked at Terry. He
was broken and he was forced to say things he really didn't believe, because he, y'know, he'd have been
sent to 42 months in prison, and he was being told, if you say this, y... if you say this you're thinking of
your children, and if you don't, you're not thinking of your children
ASK: Oah. Oah this is just, this is, this is horrific. Er, er somebody in our chat room has just noted 'Lakin is
America. This is war. Obama must go'. (She's sort of laughing as she reads it) Ohhhhhhhhh.

1:32: 41 CK: Obama (she talks over him) er, er a commander is always supposed to be thinking of his
soldiers, his troops first, you put their interests first, right, that's, that's what you're taught, as a
commanding officer. Obama is the commander in chief. Why isn't he putting the interests of his army
and his soldiers first? Why does he have to destroy a, a, a soldier who has served 18 years? A doctor, a
valued asset. Show the darn birth certificate, the long form birth certificate! That's all the Lt Cl Lakin
wanted to see! The original birth certificate with the signatures, the name of the hospital. He, he, he
(she interrupts)

ASK: But wasn't he (he carries on)

CK: He wasn't even going for the natural born arguments of his father's citizenship; he just wanted to
see the birth certificate. Why didn't they, why didn't Obama support his troops and show his original
birth certificate, the, the contemporary that's 1961, typed, long form, birth certificate. A REAL birth
certificate, not a digital image that lives, that lives only as bits in one's or zero (?) in soccer space that
nobody of any control over legal authority has ever seen legit underlying piece of paper used to make it,
because i believe the paper is made from the image, not the other way around

ASK: but you know, the whole point here is that it doesn't. It, it's almost a moot point about the birth
certificate, because his father was not an American citizen. Period.

CK: Yes! Yes I agree

1:34:00

CK: Yea, I agree, and you know what, I, I, I talked to Terry about that the day before the trial, and I
explained to him the argument, and, and afterwards he said to me, you know no one ever explained
that to me in that way before, and he was starting to see the point

ASK: Mmmmm

CK: He got involved, he, he got initially involved two years ago, because he wanted to see the birth
certificate. He didn't believe Obama had presented conclusive evidence. He, he's a doctor. I believe, I
think he delivered babies. He knows what a real birth certificate looks like. Now, oh that's another point,
during the meeting, during for those two and a half hours at his home, ah, one of his daughter's was
born in Hawaii...one of his children, his daughter or one of his two sons, so he breaks out their birth
certificate and we start saying, let me see that seal, and we looked at the seal on that Hawaiian
certificate, a genuine one, and compared it to the image on the Internet that was Obama's seal, which
is, it looks like gibberish, you can't read the State of Hawaii clearly or anything, and, and, and Terry said
'you're right, it does look different'. So obvious the news that came out about the seal looking different
and all that. We were all there looking at it...of an actual certificate, from Hawaii, for one of his children,
because he was stationed there when they were born, and he's, he's saying, you know, he's shaking his
head, so right there and then, he's convinced AGAIN, that the evidence that he's putting, that Obama's
putting on the Internet is, is forged, it's false, it's not real.

1:35:31 ASK: Hmm, hmm. He's gotta, Obama has a, he must have a lot to hide, to be doing all of this,
spending close to a, $2 million in legal fees, to keep any of this from coming to the courts (he talks over
her)

CK: Obama is a total forgery. He's a total forgery. His, he has, I believe he was born, not in Hawaii,
possibly probably in Kenya, you know maybe in Canada someplace, but not in the USA, and that his birth
in Hawaii was falsely registered by the grandmother, simply to get him US Citizen. The straw man, that
they were trying to plan for him being President from 47 years in advance, that's a straw man argument
that the Obots stirred up. Nobody on our side ever said that!

ASK: yap

CK: We simply said there was false registration that simply gets him a US citizenship. How many cases of
document fraud do we see today of people trying to become US citizens? It's, it occurs thousands of
times a day.

ASK: yah

CK: And it, and they, the Mexican border people walk across the border, Hawaii, they come in from Asia,
because of the lax rules on, on er, getting citizenship, you can, two people can swear you were born in
Hawaii, and, and they give you, they give you a certification of live birth.

1:36:46 I think Grandma Dunham signed it, saying he was born at home with no witnesses, sent it in as
a mail in form, bingo bango, he's registered and because of the registration it appeared on the list that
week, in the two newspapers, because it was automatic from the state, documents, falsified, er
registration, er fraud. And his whole life (she talks over him)
ASK: You know that there's not, there's not a spine in Congress, er, er, with the, with the exception of
Bill Posey, my Representative, who drafted that legislation, that would require any candidate running for
President, to, to er, present certification of their, er, eligibility under, under the article two, section one,
and he, he (he talks over her)

CK: Did he get re-elected? Did he get re-elected?

ASK: Yes, he did (he talks over her) Yes he got re-elected

CK: Is he gonna re-introduce it? Is he gonna re-introduce ... (she talks over him)

ASK: I don't know

CK: Well I hope so

ASK: Well I don't know

CK: Because now that there's a Republican committee chairman they can maybe get it out of committee

1:37:44 ASK: Yes. But, I'll tell you. The grief that he took, just for, just for er, er presenting that
legislation, and of course it died with this Congress, it went nowhere. I think he had maybe 11 or
twelve, er, co-authors, er, er co-sponsors

CK: right (he interjects with 'right' a couple of times)

ASK: on it, that was it. That, they didn't, (he talks over her) it(?) hit the third rail, they didn't wanna
touch it!

CK: Absolutely, and that's, that's the way it was with, er the chain of command, er, with Lt Col Lakin. It's
the third rail. Nobody wants to touch this question. And why? Because they all know there is a, there is a
question of his eligibility, and they know the answer, he's probably not eligible. Everybody knows it, and
nobody wants to touch it. Why? Because of the fear of civil unrest that they, that the far left, has
whispered in the hallways, and said ohoho, you can't do this. First of all, when during the election
primary, if you brought it up you were being charged with a racist, na, na, you know you were gonna be,
you were a racist, but now after it's a fait accompli, you know and a, an illegal usurper is in the office,
now, oh, you can't, you can't, you can't, er, get him out of there now or there'll be riots, you know. I
don't really believe there would be that much, er civil unrest, and, and and that can be handled, because
you're supporting the constitution.

1:38:53 The people, the people will (she talks over), white, black, green or purple are gonna stand up
for the Constitution, if the controlling authorities show, subpoena the documents, show there's no
proof he was born in Hawaii, his father's not a citizen, he's not a natural born citizen, end of story. Get
out! He's ineligible, un, undo everything he did

ASK: Mhmmm Ah! Wouldn't that be wonderful? Oh happy day! Wow! (laughs)

CK: Right, well you and I know, that, that he's not eligible because his father was not a US citizen,
and was never even a immigrant that, that, that minister that got up at the inauguration day speech and
said that he was a f..said that he was a son of an immigrant. Who's telling the falsehood? His father was
not an immigrant to America. His father had no interest in America; his father didn't even like America.
He was a he was a dyed in the wool Marxist. He went back to Africa to, to try to convert Kenya to
Marxism, er, he didn't (she talks over) even, he didn't even have a green card, he wasn't even a
permanent resident

1:39:51 ASK: And given all of that, there's still some doubt, there's still question as to whether or not
Obama senior really is his father. I mean, there, there, there are people who maintain that there is, ... he
was paid to say that he was the father

CK: The birth, the birth date is even in question. That's probably the birth date that Grandma Dunham
put down as him being born. I', if you wanna, if the narrative that, that best explains it to me, is that she
went, as a 17, 18 year old girl, in the second trimester of her, of her, of her carrying the child, to Kenya
to give it up, to the family over there, and was supposed to leave the child there with the paternal,
er, family, and then come back and start her life over in college, with, minus the child. You know how in
the '60's many many people went away to, to take their child, ah, a women got, when young girls got
pregnant

ASK: Yes.
CK: They sent them away to Aunt Matilda, which was really, which was really an adoption center, and
they had the baby there and they'd come back and they'd start their college and start their life. I think
that's what was going on, because er, whether or not he was legally, er, biologically the father,
everybody believed it, and er, I think she went over there to give up the baby but couldn't. Maternal
instincts kicked in - but I think he was born in July, not in August, and that gave her plenty of time to
come back by steam ship with the er, with the child, who... probably had doctors on board, she could
have travelled easily on a steamship, and transited from Kenya back to either Seattle, or maybe to,
er Vancouver Canada, and came across the border, er, by er Ferry, you know, and started her school
with an infant, because, you know the stories in, are there, was that she didn't even know how to
change a diaper right when she got back

ASK: Right, right.

1:41:31 CK: But even his birth date is in question. There is nothing about this man that's for certain.
Nothing! There's no independent facts to verify anything about this man

ASK: Hmhmm hmhm. (pause) Oooh boy, and in the meantime Terry Lakin sits in his cell at Leavenworth
for

6 months (he talks over)

CK: Now I did, I did hear a, I did hear from an insider, over the grapevine type, over the wall, that when
he arrived there, they knew that this was a special person coming, and they, every, all the higher-ups of
the prison out there, were there to m, to, to er, make sure that he was processed properly, and treated
fairly and all that kind of thing, and er, you know, it was almost like a V.I.P prisoner coming in, I mean,
the (she talks over)

ASK: Really?

CK: I mean the top staff was there, and er, er, the person was, you know, I cannot in any way say how I
got this information, you know, it could, it could be from an inmate, could be, you know, family of an
inmate, could be from somebody else that works there, or whatever, you know what I mean, as a friend
of somebody, but anyway there was a story leaked out that er, that he was treated as a VIP prisoner
coming in. Everybody knew about him, and what he stood, and what he stood up for. And there, they
also stated that a lot of people there believe what he did was right. (pause - then they both talk at once)

ASK: There's an indication in that, isn't there?

CK: Right.

CK: So, the further you get away from Washington DC, the more people know what he did was right,
what I did was right

ASK: mhm

CK: that that Obama is not eligible, there's questions. 60% of the people have doubts about his
eligibility, his, his what, his birth story, his narrative, his nativity. That's a hundred, a hundred that's a
hundred and, you know, million plus, and that's a fringe? And yet no, no controlling legal authority and a
controlling legal authority to me is a court of law with subpoena power or a Congressional Hearing with
subpoena power, to get all the documents he's hiding, Occidental college, passports, any kind of paper
that we can find to document this man's legal identity

1:43:35 The original birth certificate, and and (she talks over him) amendments

ASK: This is, this is

ACK: I think there are amendments to that. I think he was legally adopted at age 5 or less, which under
the Geneva Conventions it would make, er, he would have lost his US Citizenship. When you adopt a
child under the age 5, you get the, you get the, er, you're like born again, as, as a citizen of the new
country

ASK: Right, right.

CK: So I think he's hiding that. I think there was an amendment of his birth, er records indicating he was
adopted at age 5 or less

1:44.00 ASK: And, and ... (he talks over her) by an Indonesian, yeah.
ASK: Well, ah, erm, and the other thing too, erm, tut, er, is his family, Terry Lakin's family. Now I know
that er, you have, er, you were involved in, in fundraising for the family, because, they really don't have
any visible means of support, do they?

CK: No, he lost, he lost everything, he, he lost his er, his career, his pension which as valued at about two
and a half million $'s, er, you know, the present value of a lifetime pension as a retiree of a Colonel - he
was selected for Colonel he'd have retired as a Colonel. Er, he, he lost all his pay and benefits,
immediately. That means no medical care, nothing for his, him and his family. Gone! Boom! No money,
no pay and no medical benefits. Nothing, so I, I offered to, to help do whatever I can to speak out, and
er, their family set up a Trust fund, and a website, it's called, it's called Terry Lakin Action Fund dot com
(he spells the address out) or you could go to my web page www protect our liberty dot org (spells it
out) and it has a direct link right at the top to Terry Lakin's site to raise funds to help support his family,
and I am no longer raising funds for my case, so I'm helping to raise funds to help his family. They, they
need help. He stood up for us. He stood up for our Constitution; he stood up for our liberty, life, liberty
and pursuit of happiness.

He was railroaded, he was ambushed by his own defense counsel. He needs to, he's in prison now for 6
months. We've got to help him for 6 months at least, to help support his family.

Now there is a, a potential appeal I think in process, that, that could somehow get his benefits paid to,
his w, er, the pay and benefits for those 6 months to his wife, but I understand it's a two year process

1:46:03 so if he ever does get any money that way under this special exception, where he's not getting
the money but his wife is, that six months’ pay may come back two years from now, she might be
awarded it, but in the meantime, what do they got to eat, for the next 6 months, you know what I mean,
they need income

ASK: That's right

CK: Now the family's going to try help 'em, of course but I think America should help him

ASK: Yes

CK: He stood up for all of us

ASK: Yes. yes. Ahm, are, are, are contributions coming in? I mean, are, are...people responsive to this

CK: Yes, they are, Terry Lakin Action fund dot com, er I figure, n, not counting for legal expenses but for
his pay and benefits were probably worth about $10,000 a month to him, so that's the goal, to raise at
least that much, for, for support his family to be able to get health insurance, you know, and and and
get the income coming in for his three children, and pay his mortgage and things like that. Er, I figured, I
think his pay was pretty close to $8,000. Er, for a Doctor that's not a lot of money, but er, and then
another 2,000 for medical benefits for the family and things, so, 'cause you have to purchase it
separately it's gonna cost you a lot more than when the government was providing it, Right?

ASK: Of course yeah

CK: So I did estimate he needs to raise at least $10,000 for 6 months to cover the pay and benefits, the
value of them, and then, if, if, I don't know what Neal Puckett charged him for that (pause - then she
talks over him)

ASK: Miscarriage of justice

CK: That 'defense', you wanna put it in quotes, er I have no idea what, what a Washington DC (?)
lawyer charges, so what a hundred $'s an hour? A thousand $'s an hour? And, and then he was there for
two and a half days, 'cause he left early the last day like I mentioned he went of to Sicily or something to
defend somebody else, erm, so, you know if it's, if it's a thousand $'s an hour, it's two days, er, I dunno,
billable hours, er you know nine hours or eighteen hours. You could be talking $50,000 easy for his legal
fees if, you know, I don't know.

1:48:17 so, so money has to be raised, be raised to pay those, so

ASK: Yep. Let's take a call, er Commander Kerchner we, we're down to our last sort of ten minutes and
we've got somebody here who’s got their hand raised and would like to ask a question, I think it's
probably a Skype or, or cellphone caller, but er, caller go ahead you're on the air with, er Commander
Kerchner (pause) Go ahead caller

Caller: Andrea?
ASK: Oh, it's Marie (or poss. Laurie?)... from New york

Caller: Yes, can you hear me?

ASK: Yes, I can hear you just fine

Caller: Erm yes, it's really, it's really a shame. It's almost like this guy was a plant (sighs) you know, I, I
mean I wasn't too impressed by seeing him on the video, but it just er, reminded me of when you had
Tim Harrington and JB Williams on, and I don't understand why, um, Hemenway, was it Margaret
Hemenway ... (Kerchner talks over her)

CK: Margaret Hemenway and JB Williams and Jim Harrington take credit for getting the counsel of
getting Neal Puckett

Caller: You're kidding

CK: That's, that's what they said, in their, in their blogs, that they were responsible for getting, er, Terry
Lakin er, first class counsel (she talks over him) uh, I'm paraphrasing what I read, I mean, if I'm wrong
about that I'll stand corrected, but, they, they, they claimed that they were involved with er, hooking
'em up

Caller: Er, I remember 'cause that night they seemed to have a whole different angle, on the defense
and all, and this is really - how can an attorney do this to a client?

CK: I don't know

Caller: There should be some repercussions for that you know (he talks over her)

1: 49:50 CK: I would have not hired an attorney to defend me who did not, who did not absolutely
believe in the oath to the Constitution that the oath - that the Constitution is the supreme law of the
land and that all laws and orders need to be judged against that Constitution, and that, and that er,
you're gonna defend me on that basis

Caller: Yea well he (Kerchner talks over her)

CK: It's the prime directive of every officer; to defend...the prime directive is to defend the Constitution.
You know, you go through your whole military career, you never would be asked to defend the
Constitution in most, normal times. We're not living in normal times, we got, we got people who are
throwing the Constitution under the bus, with, with Obama right at the top, but you know, you normally
would be be worried about disobeying a, a law that was committing a crime say, or something like that,
but the o, the Constitution, the oath of the Constitution doesn't tell you what kind of, uh, violation of
the Constitution you're supposed to support and defend. If you feel that you are being told to do
something that's not constitutional, you are supposed to support and defend it.

That's what your oath says, so help you God, nothing else. You're not supposed to obey the President - it
doesn't say that in there, it says to support and defend the Constitution and he believed that the
Constitution was being violated because Obama was not legally eligible to issue those orders to surge
30,000 troops into combat in Afghanistan. He is not a legal President, so, they should have ans, they
should have investigated and answered that question, not tried him, put him on a Court, Court Martial
for disobeying the orders. He shouldn't have had to go, he shouldn't have, had to have been, had to go
that far, (caller talks over him) he should have been

1: 51: 19 Caller: (interrupting him) His attorney shouldn't have demeaned him like that, at the end (he
talks over her)

CK: Exactly (they talk over each other)...should have came in and stood up for exactly what Terry was
arguing, that the oath to the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, required him to stand up and do
what he did

Caller: Yeah, it's very sad

ASK: Hey Marie, thank you for the call...and thanks for tuning in tonight. I appreciate it
Caller-Marie: Thank you, I'm gonna say a prayer for him and his family too (CK talks over her)...for sure
they sure could use it

CK: What did Neal get by doing this to Terry? He still got dismissed from the, he didn't save, he didn't
save his client. His client got dismissed from the service, lost all pay and benefits and er, maybe he got
him six months, er, maybe it was a plea bargain behind the scene - I don't know. Maybe it would have
been a year, maybe it'd have been 18 months instead, but then maybe, maybe not, maybe if he'd
argued the constitutionality, and said to all those members of the panel - you read your oath.

Now read the oath for an enlisted man, where it says you also have to obey the orders of the President,
and the officers above you, but the officer's oath doesn't. It says your sole responsibility is to support
and defend the Constitution - ask each of those panel members, look 'em in the eye. Why? Why?

1:52:31 Why, if the officer's only trying to defend the Constitution, because the day it was envisioned
that a President could be corrupt and violating the Constitution and you'd have to stand up to him, your
military officers would have to stand up to support the Constitution in face of an illegal usurpation of
Constitutional powers by a corrupt, wrong, illegal President. They wanted that ability that they would
not go against their oath.

I would have asked each of them - what would you do if you knew the President was performing an
unconstitutional illegal act, and you are ordered to be participating in it? What would you do? Obey the
orders?...

ASK: (interrupting) That would have been a great defense.

CK: Yeah!

ASK: A great defense

CK: And I don't think, if they, if they wanted to railroad him, they would have still dismissed him
and given him 6 months in prison, but he'd have left that room with his honor

ASK: Yes. Yes.

CK: I would have asked ... (she talks over him)

ASK: Oh

CK: every witness of the prosecution, read the officer's oath, read the enlisted man's oath. Why is the
enlisted man required to obey the officers above him, and the President, and of course support the
Constitution, but why are officers only charged to support the Constitution, and defend the
Constitution? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why the difference?

1:53:48 Bring up the Nuremberg situation. Where people over there said 'I was just following orders. We
must obey orders'. Orders from authority, the Supreme Commander, Adolph Hitler, whatever, you know
- that's the law! You follow orders, orders, orders, orders. Well, they all hanged for following orders.
They were determined to be crimes against humanity. Now this is a Constitutional question, but is our
Constitution the supreme law of the land or isn't it?

If it is, you should be judging your orders against all laws of the country, including the Constitution,
'cause your oath requires you to do it, so help you god. If they don't want the officers to live up to the
oath, why don't they get rid of the oath? If they don't want a natural born citizen for the President,
amend the Constitution. Don't throw the Constitution and the oath that officers take under the bus. We
go (She talks over him - can't make this out) in support of our country, for that, for that oath! The whole
county's freedom depends on that Constitution; it’s the glue that's held us together for 200 plus years. If
they throw the Constitution under the bus, and the oath to it, we might, we won't have a military
system left.

1:54:55 ASK: ... (he talks over her)

CK If you're only fighting in defense of a man, a charismatic, President, and that's all you're charged with
defending - follow orders from him, we're done for, especially when you got a man in the Oval Office
like Obama

ASK: ... (he talks over her)

CK: That man is not only illegal, that man, I think, is corrupt and immoral. Evil
ASK: Yeah. Yes, Yes. Well we see what he's doing to our country. The fruit of his labor is visible.

CK: Right. Now they got that Don’t Ask, Don't Tell put through. That's going to destroy the warrior, the
warrior ethos in the military is gonna be destroyed by that, being forced to er, accept (pause) I, er, (she
talks over him)

You'd have to be in the military to experience it. There's an ethos there, of right and wrong

ASK: Yea, Yeah.

CK: And, er (she interrupts him)

ASK: Yea, I, I, I never having served I can only rely on the words of er, of, of men such as yourself that,
this is not a good thing for the military, not a good thing for national defense at all.

CK: You look at the common core army values, and the ethos of the warrior, and they're destroying it
(she interrupts and they speak over each other)

... ... tens of thousands of men will not re-enlist, and will not enlist, because of what they did with
repealing that law

ASK: Well I'm not sure, I'll tell you, I've said it many times, If I had a son or a daughter who wanted to
enlist right now, under this current commander in chief, I would discourage them. I would do everything
but turn myself inside out to discourage them from doing it. If they wanna do it, let them wait until this
President is no longer in Office. I wouldn't send my son or my daughter to WAR, under this President, no
way. No way.

CK: He's illegal!

ASK: Cdr Kerchner. Yes, yes I believe he is too. Cdr Kerchner we're just about out of time here

(She thanks him for being on show, thanks him for being there for Lakin, for his service to the country -
then and NOW bla bla honor to know you)
1:57:10 CK: Thank you Andrea, I look at it this way - he's in prisons now, in prison now. I'm outside. I
got his back. I got his back, soldier to soldier, I got his back, I'm gonna cover for him as best I can, and
speak out, because he's not gonna be allowed to.

ASK: Yeah, yeah.

1:57:26 they begin to say their goodbyes (I didn't wait for the music)