True Heart has No Center

January 5th, 2010 - Online Satsang 003

Before I start talking something about the Heart, I would say a few words about
the practice. You all must be well aware by now (those who are following my talks
and a little bit about what I have written) that I have prescribed two basic forms
or methods of Self-inquiry, depending upon the type of seeker that you are.

The first is for those who are more devotional types, more feeling-oriented. For
them, I had said that you feel love as your beingness, beingness as your love, and
automatically that your attention will be drawn near the area of your chest, at the
heart. This is for those who are devotional types.

And the second way is for those who are more intellectual. They are more
visually-oriented. For them, I had said in the last Satsang which I had given, was
about looking at the Void ahead of you, and bringing the Void slowly downwards
into the area of the chest.

These two methods are prescribed.

1
Two things are very common in this – the first is that there is continuous looking,
continuous looking by way of sinking. And the second thing is that that sinking
has to be done in the area of the heart. So, two things are very common for both
these forms of instruction.

Now, I had stressed looking by way of sinking, because that is where real
meditation takes place. It is not a looking by ordinary mind. It is looking which
goes beyond the mind. The more you sink, the better will be the looking – the
better will be the meditation and sooner the mind will die. And it has to be done
in this area (near the chest, near the heart.)

Here the question about “heart” comes. When I gave this at the last Satsang,
Matthew emailed me saying that “There are basically three different kinds of
heart.” He asked me “Where are we supposed to sink?” – A very good question.
He told me, in fact he enlightened me that there is one, the left one, which is
basically the physical heart, which is present there on the left side of your chest.

The second is right in the middle of your chest. This is where the yogis practice
pranayamas [yogic breathing exercises to still the mind] and concentration. It is
called the Anahata chakra.

And the third is what Sri Ramana [Maharshi] had said - that it is on the right
side; that is where the I-thought originates from.

So, which of these three do we need to sink into?

In my last Satsang, this question was raised by Tim also. And that moment also, I
had said only one thing: that we have to forget about left, right and center
completely.

The same instructions hold true even today, and will always. The reason is, first
of all you have to understand that the object of your concentration, of your
meditation, was never the heart. The object of your meditation was your
beingness, or your Void. Right? It was never the “heart.” So, you are only
concentrating, meditating on the Void or beingness – either of them are the
object.

2
If I had told you that the object of your meditation was the heart, then the
question about left, right and center comes into play. The only instruction as far
as the heart goes, is that is a place where you need to sink – not even remain. You
are supposed to sink there. So one thing is very clear: that the object is beingness
or the Void, not the heart.

What happens if we say that the right side holds prominence, as Sri Ramana-ji
says, or that the right side has a basic significance? Yes, there is definitely
significance, but I’ll come to it in just some while.

But during your meditation, if you are going to concentrate or pay attention to
the right side, or the left side, or to the center, then it is not meditation. It
becomes concentration on a certain point. And then you do not allow your mind
to sink, because all the time you’ll be thinking “Am I on the right side? Am I on
the center? Am I on the middle? Am I on the left side?”

Your mind will only be thinking, sorting these things out… “Oh, Ramana-ji said
right side. Ah, why did I drift towards the left side during meditation? No, no,
no, no. I need to go back to the right side.” See? This is what happens when you
are going to do attention on the heart area. The attention and focus will become
the heart.

But it is not the heart. The 0bject is always the beingness or the Void.

So, you’re going to freefall (meaning, sink.) In that area, the chest area, you are
falling, unrestrictedly! That has to be very understood. The only object is the ―
again I repeat, either the Void or the beingness. And you sink, you sink, you
allow yourself to go deep downwards, backwards, deep.

That is what I call as sinking. Otherwise, sinking will be very difficult to achieve,
because who’s sorting “left, right, center,” other than the mind, only? Whereas, in
sinking the mind is taken care of. You’re not even remaining even in one position.
You’re continuously going down. Backwards.

Now my second point is, how is sinking best achieved?

You will realize that by dedicated practice, bringing the mind again and again to

3
your beingness, or the Void, bringing it down here, to the area of the heart, you
will realize that sinking is made possible with dedicated practice and with
patience, without really worrying about the result.

You have to just worship. That is the center of worshipping. Without any fruits of
what is going to happen, “What experience am I going to get, or not,” you’re just
allowing to drift yourself downwards.

Another thing which will help you to sink more is the compassion, the feeling of
love towards all sentient beings, helping them at a time of their suffering, when
they need you most. You will see that your happiness within is growing, slowly
and suddenly, automatically you’re spreading the love everywhere ― like
fragrance, you’re spreading. And your inner world also is going to lighten up.

That will open that Heart which I am talking about. Not the left-right-center
heart. The Heart. Just the Heart. So, as far as practice goes, this is what you
have to do.

You know, once I read that a devotee asked Sri Ramana, “Where is the Heart?
You say ‘Right side, the Heart is there; it is the Source’… So where is this Heart?”
So, Sri Ramana-ji said this only – that where you address yourself as the first
person, that is here, you point your finger. (pointing to right side of chest)

When you point your finger [to indicate who you are], automatically you will
know that it automatically goes here. (pointing to right side of chest) When you
say “I go there,” the finger is pointed automatically here. (pointing to right side
of chest)

Intuition tells you where the Heart is. It does not say “Is it the left, right or
center?” It automatically says, “It’s here.” (pointing to right side of chest) “I am
going there.” (pointing to right side of chest) “I will see you soon.” (pointing to
right side of chest) Whatever. When you address yourself as “I,” the finger is
pointed intuitively. The mind is not used there.

Similarly, when you love, intuitively you will feel feelings here only. (pointing to
chest) You’ll not experience feelings of love generated anywhere else, other than
this area. That is why it has a prominence. So, Heart is Heart. Right?

4
Now, we have to come to the central part of today’s Satsang, which is: Is there
significance to what Sri Ramana said about the right side? Is there any
significance at all about it?

I think that Matthew wrote, “Ramana said the Heart is two finger-widths to the
right of the center of the chest.” Of course, it has a big significance. If Sri
Ramana-ji says something, then it has to be significant. He’s not going to just say
it without any reason. So, let us find out what that could be, or what that is.

In my experience, the significance of the right side is that this is where bliss is
experienced first. The bliss of pure beingness is experienced there. That is the
state of Turiya. He’s talking from that level, in that context, the highest state of
samadhi. This is where it first arises.

In my experience of Turiya also, I recollect there was a jerk. And with that jerk,
fountains of bliss start to flow from that center ― fountains! That happens on the
right side.

Having arisen from there, it does not stay there. It spreads. It spreads from that
center, to the whole area, to the whole body, slowly, like waves and waves of bliss
arising, torrential bliss, torrential joy, unimagined, unexperienced by human
mind. That happens when you cross the state of Void. With that jerk on the right
side, joy erupts. Soon the whole body, every cell of the body is celebrating,
around with that joy! And soon, not only the body, space joins in the celebration
― entire space, entire universe. That is how the expansion of that center happens.
That is how it happens. It flows away ― up, up, up! There is an expanse.

(Please note that this is purely experiential and words are self-defeating . When I
say “up, up,up!” it is to give everyone an idea of how expansive it can get, but in
the real sense there is no “up, up and up.” The expanse is experienced as a result
of how subtle one's beingness is actually getting. While a part of your beingness
continues to sink downwards into the ground, another part seems to rise
upwards, swallowing the entire space and universe. Later there is no downwards,
upwards, left, center or right—only Joy remains. Even this boundless joy
disappears. When, how and from where it disappears is not known at all.)

So it is not limited to that side, the right side. No. There is no doubt that it is the

5
source from where it arises, the pure beingness, the “I-amness,” the joy. It arises
from there. But it is still the false center. Because you have to understand that it
does not stay; it spreads. And therefore, when it spreads and disappears from
there (beyond all,) how can you know the actual center?

The center cannot be traced. It is far too expansive. Far too overwhelming. It
includes every part of the universe. It encompasses everything, pervades
everywhere and disappears from there.

(Turiya, the highest state of samadhi is experienced, recollected when you’re back
in the body-awareness. As a memory, you come to know about all these things.)

So, you can say, one can recollect the source from where it arises (that is the right
side). But there is no way, from my experience I can say, that you can point to a
“heart center”, to a center, because of all these reasons.

I cannot put it in words; words fail me if I’m trying to explain. I hope you can
understand through my feelings what I’m trying to say here. But if I have to give
you a slightly unorthodox example, please bear with me, just to make some
understanding…

The source of sexual pleasure happens in the genitals. However, it does not stay
there. During the act, it spreads through the whole body. The joy is experienced
and participated by the entire body. Even though when we know that the source
of pleasure is from those parts, no man says to a woman that “his genitals have
made love to her genitals!” It never happens. He says he makes love to her. This is
how it encompasses. This is how it is difficult for me to explain to you about what
happens in the state of Turiya. But people have limited it, by saying “Right side of
the chest.” How is it possible?

(One can say that the right side is a doorway or pathway towards the real Heart as
things start to roll up from there with the experience of Bliss.)

It is a start. But soon, it pervades everything. And there is no way, to my

knowledge, where I can point a finger and say that “this is where the center is” –
arising, yes, but not the center. This is recollected by a Jnani (the right-side
arising), but not the center.

6
To me, the Heart center is completely unknown. It is the Self itself. The True
heart has neither a beginning nor an end, so it cannot have a center.

So again, I would conclude that we should not take words of present/past

Masters and interpret it, without understanding in which context that he has
spoken about. Context, as Edji said the other day, is everything. It is proven.

Pranams.

Part 2, “Rajivji Takes Your Questions” and “Further Explanations,”

follows below…

7
 Rajivji Takes Your Questions
As you read the questions and answers below, it is very important to understand that the answers that
are given in each Satsang must be taken in the full context of that Satsang AND that Rajivji's answers
may appear unusual, or seem to contradict answers to similar questions in the past. Partly, he is
answering each person based on their current level of understanding, and more importantly, is telling
them what he thinks they need to hear at that time. Also, realize that all general statements contain
within them their own contradictions, and most Satsang statements are general statements due to
limitations of time.

Therefore, a general statement one week may appear to contradict another general statement of
another week. In the largest sense, there is no truth at all, but until one awakens, or until one's Self-
inquiry has reached deeper levels, words, and the necessary distortion of words, are still one of the
main ways a teacher still teaches.

So don't hang onto any one sentence because in a month's time you will find a contradiction.

You need to go beyond the words with limitations in meaning and intent, by just listening without
interpretation or dwelling on the words.

Question 1

Alan: Pranams, Rajivji.

Rajivji: Pranams.

Alan: Something that has come up in conversation over the last couple of days –
you have stressed the beingness, and to sink backward into the Void. If we are
not of the body, how can we have a “backward” or a “forward?”

Rajivji: Yes.

Alan: How can we “sink backward” into a void? Why not just “sink” into the
Void?

Rajivji: No. “Sink into the Void…” I’m saying that there is a Void ahead of you.
The Void is everywhere. The first point is when you close your eyes, you see a
Void. It is for those people who are more visually oriented, I’ll say it again.

8
They see the Void ahead of them, right? Now, when you bring the Void
downwards, backwards, downwards ― that is, through the heart area ― you sink
from there. So, you’re sinking backwards only to the Void. By sinking, you’re
going backwards only. Am I right? Is that your question?

Alan: Basically, you’re sinking the Void backwards into you.

Rajivji: Same thing. What is not the Void… if you’re going to go behind and
look, what is there?

Alan: Behind would be the Void, too.

Rajivji: Same thing.

Alan: You are of the Void.

Rajivji: Exactly, exactly.

Alan: Okay.

Rajivji: So wherever you look – left, right, center, wherever – it is going to be

the Void only. Where is it not going to be the Void?

Alan: Okay.

Rajivji: I’m only saying that those who are more visual, who want to see, for
them I have said, that you bring the Void to the... The idea is to guide them, as a
pointer, that you bring it downwards, and you sink there. So, you can go like that
also, the way you were doing. It’s correct.

Alan: Yeah, but we have heard the term “sinking backward into the Void” a
number of times, and it was sort of a little bit vague as to what that concept
actually was, but I think you’ve clarified that very nicely now. Thank you very
much.

Rajivji: The idea, Alan, is that sinking means relaxing. You have to understand.

Alan: Mm-hm.

9
Rajivji: You have to completely let go of concepts, even, of whether there’s a
Void backwards, whether there’s an “I” backwards... Everything has to go,
finished. You are just relaxing. You are not allowing the mind to operate. And the
best way to do, is to go to that source. As I said, the source is the area from where
the “I” comes from. There, if you relax, you will meet the subject, that is “I,”
automatically.

So, why don’t you allow it?

Alan: Okay.

Rajivji: That allowing is sinking.

Alan: Okay.

Rajivji: That allowing is sinking, relaxing. Relaxing into that area. So whether
you take Void backwards, or you take “I” backwards, or you take Void ahead, it is
the same thing. The idea is to relax.

Alan: Or if you just sink into it.

Rajivji: Yes.

Alan: It’s the same thing.

Rajivji: Same thing.

Alan: Okay. Wonderful. That clarifies a lot of points. Thank you.

Rajivji: Okay.

Question 2

Sharjeel: I have been meditating for I think four years. I never forget the
message of Master Edji last week, when he said not to ask too many questions

10
and don’t pay attention to experiences, but this experience has been happening
for a long time and continuously, repeatedly this thing has been happening, what
you mentioned in your last Satsang. And this has been happening since, I would
say three years.

See, with me, what happens is that, Rajiv, when I meditate, most of the things,
the vivid dreams, the dreams when you know that you’re dreaming, or all these
experiences, they won’t happen during the meditation. Most of the time in
meditation, I’m just getting images, I’m getting thoughts and everything.

This happens just after I finish meditation and go to sleep, and relax. But this
happens… like I am completely aware of what’s going on.

Rajivji: What happens?

Sharjeel: What happens is that, it is just like what you said last time. That you’re
going somewhere like down, but it doesn’t feel like it’s in the Heart. It’s like I’m
going down, and in some kind of a very scary place, it’s like the grave. When you
reach there, it’s like you’re going under the ground. It’s a very scary, scary place.
It’s extremely dark there, it’s complete darkness.

Rajivji: Yeah.

Sharjeel: It’s complete darkness. And then, most of the time, I stay there. I try
to stay there, but then…

Rajivji: It doesn’t. Mind comes back! (chuckling)

Sharjeel: Mind comes back. So, when you told me, and this has been happening
when I didn’t know anything about the “causal body,” or I didn’t…

Rajivji: Yeah…

Sharjeel: I read “Autobiography of a Jnani” [advaita teaching dialogues between

Ed Muzika and Rajiv Kapur], but this has been happening. My question is this –
I mean I know it’s not some kind of delusional state because it happens in the
dream, I mean in the sleep, but I’m completely aware. I’m completely aware of
what’s happening.

11
Rajivji: Very good. That’s good. The thing is that, you mentioned that it is not
the Heart… Again, I am saying the same thing: The Heart is a concept from this
area (pointing to the chest) That is not the Heart. What you are experiencing is
you’re going to that heart only. That’s all. As long as you’re sinking downwards, it
is the Heart.

Okay. Now, “Heart” means “Self.” As I said, now it is clear. Heart means the
source from where everything arises. That is the Heart. The real meaning of
Heart is that only. It is the Self, itself.

So now, when you are going downwards, you just remain there… possibly if you
can sink, you can sink, but just when you will have the experience of being aware
of something extraordinary, of the nothingness, the moment you are trying, going
to become that nothingness; before that, the mind will scare you. It will scare you,
frighten you, too much.

Sharjeel: That’s true, that’s true, yeah.

Rajivji: That is a defense mechanism for the mind to come back into play.

Sharjeel: Mm-hm.

Rajivji: Just like we have our own intelligence which we call “survival instinct,”
the mind has its own survival instinct. It will try and scare you, that you’re losing
yourself into that bottomless bit, almost like an abyss. You’re going downwards,
downwards, downwards – downwards into the nothingness.

Thing is, you’re getting more subtler, and the mind does not allow you to become
so subtle, because that will cause the end of the mind itself!

But I can tell you, Sharjeel, this is the most difficult part of sadhana [spiritual
practice.] If you can, cross this ocean; this ocean that you are experiencing. Then
for you the path ahead – for everybody, not only you – for everybody, the path
ahead becomes easier. Because, you have to understand that beyond that lies
infinite beauty, infinite joy.

This is only to scare you!

12
Sharjeel: It’s like you’re dying, like you’re dead.

Rajivji: Of course, you are dying, because that is a concept, that death. The
mind is telling you that you are going to die. That is the death of ego, closely
related to the “I-ness” – that is the individuality of the mind. The existence of “I-
ness,” the individual ego, depends upon the mind. He has created you!

Sharjeel: You know Rajiv, the last time it happened, I just did some experiment.
Because you know when you are in the “subtle body,” and you have lucid
dreaming? In the beginning, I used to have it like I am going somewhere, but
then after a while, after six months or a year, I could feel my physical body at the
same time that I’m dreaming.

Rajivji: Yeah.

Sharjeel: But last time I did it, what I did was, as I was going down, sinking,
sinking backward into that darkness, when I went there, I stayed there. But then I
tried to feel my body, physical body, and because it seems like you’re going
somewhere, like you’re not here, you’re going somewhere in the bottom of the
earth, you know? Somewhere, a grave. So then I tried to feel my body, and I
tried to bring back, and I said, Oh, it’s the same thing. I’m not going anywhere,
I’m here. I mean, it’s just that this -

Rajivji: (Laughing)

Sharjeel: -that’s my mind.

Rajivji: I can say you’re going to the right place, but you’re coming back to the
wrong place, that is the body.

Sharjeel: Yes. (Laughing)

Rajivji: So, change your focus. Rather, you go where it has to go. The body’s the
wrong center. The body’s the wrong center, the false center. Because this is a
security. See again, this sense of security that “I am there, the body is there,” is
given to you by the mind because it wants to survive, and it will survive by your
body, through your body. So, he’s bringing your attention back to your physical
body.

13
Rather I would say, “Let it go.” You see what happens to you. Anyways, after
physical death we have to go somewhere, no? Why not see now, only?

Sharjeel: That’s true.

Rajivji: We have to leave the body. Isn’t it? Or the body has to leave us;
whatever. But whatever it is we are going to, this particular partnership of us and
the body is going to break, one day.

Sharjeel: That’s true.

Rajivji: So why don’t we do it now, and see? What is happening with you, your
experience, you are going subtle – and with everybody, I know it happened with
me also, I’m not saying – It is scary, because the moment you start to become
more subtler, more subtler, the mind will interrupt. It cannot see that.

Sharjeel: Thank you, Rajiv. Thank you so much. You’ve clarified that.

Rajivji: Thank you. Very nice.

Question 3

Rajivji: Any question? Is Matthew clear?

Matthew: Yes. Thank you. That’s a great explanation. I like how you put it in the
context of Ramana, and the different systems. Nice. Very nice. Thank you.

Rajivji: You know, this is what I’ve said. It is experiential. The right side has
significance, and it is experiential only after the experience of Turiya; not before
that. Before that, if you bring the right-side, left-side, we are creating problems
for ourselves. I hope you understand what I’m trying to say.

Matthew: Yes, yes. You said to focus on the sinking, or the beingness.

Rajivji: That’s it.

14
Matthew: And in a way, what you’re saying is, it’s like when you’re driving: just
remember to keep your hands on the wheel, and just steer and keep your foot on
the gas. In other words, don’t get too taken up about what’s going on outside, you
have to know what’s going on…

Rajivji: Exactly, exactly. You will be aware of it anyways.

Matthew: Yeah.

Rajivji: When you’re driving that car, you’ll be aware of which car is coming
from where, without really actually looking at it.

Matthew: True. Instinctively.

Rajivji: Instinctively! So, you have to trust your instinct more than anything
else. Practice is all about trusting instinct. It is automatically happening around
you. Similarly we have to do, but we are to not forget that car. And the brakes.
We have to apply the right brakes at the right time! (chuckling)

Matthew: (Laughing)

Rajivji: It will be a problem! (Laughing)

Matthew: (Laughing). . . Thanks, Rajivji.

Rajivji: Thank you.

Question 4

Jean: Pranams, Rajivji.

Rajivji: Yes. Come on, Jean.

15
Jean: When you spoke about being intellectual, being visually oriented, as –
maybe not using the correct word – but as opposed to being heart-centered – for
lack of a better word, devotional? Bhakti?

Rajivji: Yes, yes.

Jean: How does one know? Can there be elements of both in one’s practice?

Rajivji: Surely.

Jean: Just as a curiosity?

Rajivji: Surely, surely. It depends. Which is more prominent? And you can try
both also. Ultimately what I’m trying to say is, you are brought to this area of the
Heart that is near your chest, and you have to sink. As long as you’re doing that, it
doesn’t matter which kind of seeker you are.

In the first kind the devotion there brought directly here, near the Heart, whereas
the second one is kind of indirect. You’re trying to force slightly, you bring it
downwards.

So, the aim and the goal is the same thing. You are retiring here (pointing to
chest) on this area of the Heart. That is the goal, and you’re sinking there. That’s
it.

So, it doesn’t matter what is more predominant – you have to be one-pointed.

You are going to bring all your attention of that beingness here (pointing to
chest) and you’re going to sink from here. Ultimately, that is the way towards that
beautified that I’m talking about, those indescribable joy which remains with you
all the time.

Another thing I also have to clarify is this, that once you have had an experience
of that pure beingness, or of “Turiya”, which we call it, it never leaves you – not
for a second.

So, it is not a glimpse. This is not your question, but I just recollected that I have
to say this. So, that is where you come to know that this is pure beingness,

16
because it always stays with you. That is a part of pure “I-amness,” the nature of
your self, the true Self, which is joy. That is what you are. You are joy itself.

So, whether you call it “joy,” you call it “love,” you call it “heart center,” you call it
“Self,” everything is the same. That’s all.

So, depending on your happiness that you’re getting, Jean, in your meditation,
that joy that you getting, you will know how well you’re advancing.

Jean: Hmmm!

Rajivji: The progress is based upon how much joy you are getting. How much
detached you are getting from the world. And how much happiness is growing
inside of you.

That is the real symptom (smiling), of practice, of good practice.

Jean: (Laughing)

Rajivji: These are all pointers: “Come to this area,” “Sink here…” They’re all
pointers. But the real progress is where it becomes part of your life. Joy becomes
part of your life. Happiness becomes part of your life. Nothing really disturbs you
much.

And so, as and as the joy increases, the happiness increases, it reaches to
indescribable zones, where you cannot contain it anymore! It flows! Overflows!

So, when that happens, you know that Self and you, there is not much difference
in that. Of course you’re all the Self only, but the realization is not very far away.

Right?

Jean: Thank you. Very good. Thank you, Rajiv.

Rajivji: Thank you, thank you.

17
Question 5

Tim: My question is, and I asked you this before, I just wanted a little bit more
clarification… Ed said I would keep asking and asking, and he was right! He must
be able to see the future.

Rajivji: (Chuckling)

Tim: When I do my practice, I pay attention to my sense of presence, my sense of

existence. And when I do that, sometimes it feels like it goes to the right. There’s
a tension that goes to the right of my chest, but it has nothing to do with the
emotion of love or anything like that. It’s just a feeling of being.

Rajivji: Exactly.

Tim: Okay. Because I thought that for the beingness to be concentrated on, the
feeling had to be love or something, but mine -

Rajivji: No, no, no, no.

Tim: Oh, okay.

Rajivji: Those are all concepts again, love and all that. Love is Self only. Heart is
only love. Joy is also Self only. All those qualities, they diminish. They just go
away. After that, after some time.

I’m saying, whatever you are experiencing, whichever side, your intuitive feelings
are there – you have to sink there. Automatically, things are going to be
dissolved.

Tim: Alright, that’s great. Thanks Rajiv. That was all I needed (chuckling)

Rajivji: Okay. Thanks.

Tim: Okay.

18
Further Explanations

Alan: I think that was a wonderful clarification today. And for me, you clarified
that we get tied up. The mind gets tied up in concepts and ideas, and we get more
tied up in how to do something, rather than just doing it.

Rajivji: Exactly.

Alan: And that we can get many ideas, many concepts, many names for basically
doing the same thing. I think you clarified that this is a lot easier, and a lot
simpler to do, if we just focus on the core of actually doing it.

Rajivji: Exactly!

Alan: Rather than getting caught up.

Rajivji: Exactly, exactly. That is why I say that reading should be banned!

Alan: (Laughing)

Rajivji: Too much reading should be banned.

Alan: (Laughing)

Rajivji: Because what is happening, this only – someone picks something else
from what one Master says, and then they say, “This is what he said. Am I
practicing correctly or not?” Then doubt is going to come in your mind.

But you see, only once you have reached the stage of the highest samadhi, all
those things come and settle on its own. No one Master is saying different from
the other Masters. They’re all reaching to a point where all meet. But we’re not
seeing it yet.

Alan: No. It reminds me of the game that we used to play in school, where you
would have ten children lined up, and you would pass one of them a piece of
paper with a little message in it, just a little one-liner, and that student would

19
read it. And then you take it away, and you tell that student to tell the second
one…

Rajivji: (Chuckling) Yeah.

Alan: And so on, down the line. And so by the time it gets down to the tenth
person, the message is totally different than what was on that piece of paper that
the first one said the second student.

Rajivji: Exactly, exactly. But the first one knows the message. Right?

Alan: Yes.

Rajivji: The first one knows the message. There you have to reach. There you
have to reach! Where the first one knows the message.

So be the first man. Come back to your pure beingness. Yes, that is the idea.

Alan: Thank you.

___________________________________________________________________

Rajivji: You have to put effort to bring the sinking about. Even though it is of the
mind, but we have to put that effort – initially – to start off with that motion.
Because so far, we’ve only been looking outside. Now, we have to make the effort
to come within. After you have done it repeated times, you will know that it
comes naturally to you. Then, you don’t have to put effort.

So for some people, it becomes effortless already. Some people, put the effort.
Nothing wrong in putting effort. Please, put effort where required. You’re putting
effort for a good thing. So put that effort, and you will see. It will become
effortless on its own.

It may also happen sometimes that sinking is not happening only, because you
feel that you don’t have to sink, you feel like just being at that time. Just being.

20
So, no effort is required for that. You’re just quietly sitting in a relaxed manner.
There is no sinking which is happening. You are relaxed.

You have to understand that that is because of the fruit of sinking that you are
able to relax.

So, you should not stop your effort. When it becomes effortless, automatically you
will reach to a stage where everything has become very relaxed.

There is a food when you go to a temple – after we have prayer, we get what we
call as prasadam, the prasad. Prasad means that small sweet which everybody
gives. In churches also, I don’t know if it is there, but in temples we have. Every
priest gives us some prasad.

Prasad is what you enjoy after you have made the effort. It becomes effortless
later. First, please put effort – everybody!

___________________________________________________________________

Rajivji: There are different kinds of pressure that you will feel. Sometimes you’ll
feel on the chest area, like you are feeling. Some people feel on top also, on the
head, because it will become very concentrated.

So, whatever you will feel, you have to have one-pointedness, that you are going
to only focus, pay your attention to your beingness, and to the sinking. After that,
whatever happens, let it happen. Your intuition will tell you whether you need to
really focus downwards (sinking), or if you have to remain there (after sinking is
done what it had too), or whether it is that concentrated energy that is getting
gathered – what you have to do in that case. Your intuition will tell you exactly,
when you reach to that. It will guide you further on its own.

I can tell you that you must try and sink as far as possible. Various kinds of
energies are going to get trapped, right on the head or the stiffness on the chest,

21
whatever. You just relax. And the more relaxed you will get, the more it is going
to get resolved sooner.

_______________________________________________

Rajivji: One thing, very good question, Matthew, the thing is that as I said the
other day also, and I always say that this is worship.

The beingness is worship.

It’s not a trade. We are not trading with divinity.

That, “Okay, I’m going to put two hours a day in; you’ve got to give me bliss!”

Matthew: (Laughing) Right.

Rajivji: You know - “You’re going to give me joy. You’re going to give me
Turiya.” It’s not going to happen that way.

Matthew: Uh-huh.

Rajivji: It is only when you’re selflessly involved in worship. Unconditional.

Then it will start to flower.

So, that expectation is all of the mind. That expectation that you have to reach
somewhere, become something – that all is mind only.

Matthew: Mm-hm.

Rajivji: So we should not try, as far as possible. I know it is difficult. Everybody

expects that when he is sitting, he should get something out of it, somewhere.

Matthew: It’s a habit.

Rajivji: Yeah, it’s a habit. It’s about our habit, our nature, how we have become.

22
We do trade, we do business, we do everything with the intention of getting
something. And the same thing will be reflected in our meditation also. But we
don’t understand that what we are doing in meditation is only re-connecting.

A connection has got severed. That’s all. You’re re-connecting. It is not that we
must have an attitude to gain out of it, as such. You’re not going to gain
something new. We are already That – only thing, we have not realized it yet.

So, rather we should just sit in our meditation without expecting much from here,
and you will see automatically that cup of happiness within your heart will start
to fill. It will grow so much on you, that you will say, “Enough, I don’t want any
more bliss!”(chuckling)

Matthew: (Laughing)

Rajivji: That can also come. (Laughing)

Matthew: (Laughing) Yeah, yeah.

Rajivji: That’s why I said it will overflow, that kind of overflow. That is how
divinity works. Consciousness works this way.

You ask anything from Consciousness, then you become a beggar. So, you get like
how beggars get – dimes. But you behave like a king, then Consciousness rewards
you like a king. So, you have to just behave like you’ve got everything achieved
already. And you’re sitting only worshipping that achievement.

Matthew: Very nice.

Rajivji: Right now. That much feeling you should have, not beg.

Matthew: I like that. I like the worshipping.

Rajivji: Yeah. That’s great.

Matthew: Hm.

Rajivji: Thank you.

23