Facebook Inquiry in Gurukul about Creation—31.10.

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(a trimmed version with apologies)

Mrityunjayanand Jee "What purpose Creation?......what does the Bhagwad

Geeta say about this?".......It's a question raised by Om Kiran, our group's
member. Let us share our views.

Mrityunjayanand Jee @Om Kiran. Please expand your question with some
more details to let our members understand properly and share their views.
Humble wishes.

Dwarka Kalantry Allow me to begin the discussion with BG 3:10 to 13.

Brahma created people with yagnya (sacrifice) and said this yagna will give
you desired results. Bhagwan emphasizes that sinners who function in self
interest only are thieves.

Dwarka Kalantry The non Gita version of my understanding is that Bhagwan

was bored alone (ekaki na ramte) so he created this creation without
purpose. He became many (ekoham bahusyam) and gave freedom to
everyone to play. The entities like Radha chose to remain with Bhagwan and
entities like us chose to identify with prakriti (BG 15:7)

Ravi Maraj What is eternal cannot be conceived as having a purpose. The

Divine Mind does not need to have a reason for creation, since expression or
manifestation is part of its nature. What we do know however, is that this
manifestation fulfils a purpose on behalf of the creatures that evolve within
it.

Ravi Maraj The One does not become the Many. They are different orders of
being. The many is an emanation from the One. Lol.

Dwarka Kalantry Raviji: Yes we cannot know the purpose and it is not
necessary to know it as well. BG 4:5 and 6. But every effect has a cause. The
creation (effect) has a cause (Bhagwan). Best regards.

Tsimi James : Create only for the mere joy of creating. When you create for
you, you will soon find yourself living in joy. Don't ever strive to have
anyone understand you. If they wish to understand, they will. Love
everyone. Have compassion for all other entities. You do not need to go and
take care of them. Love them by allowing them to express however they
choose. That is the greatest thing you can do! If they are angered or
disappointed by your life, love them by allowing them to be that way. In
Loving Gratitude

Shane Younker I believe that it is for the purpose of becoming an individual

expression of God. Not the same as God, but an expression. We are given
individuality within the manifested, so there must be significance to it.

Ravi Maraj Yes, its immediate purpose is to raise all creatures to a higher
state of awareness. Quite correct Brother Shane.

Shane Younker Nothing can be added or taken from Infinity, so it cannot be

for adding unto God. To me there must be significance to the individual
expression. The maya is put before us so that we do not readily accept or
perceive God for what He truly is. Also maya is a part of cause and effect.
Otherwise our own free-will will be affected as to whether or not we will
chose God. Through our own free will, we live our individual paths until we
are ready to pursue and perceive God.

Ravi Maraj Brother, I want to quickly exit this discussion cuz I don't think
everyone is ready to hear certain truths as yet on this topic. But am not
referring to you.

Jagdish Morjaria As an aspect to consider as the Sat-Sang progresses ~The

Sloka in Gita~~~#Yada Yada His Dharmashya, Glanir Bhavathi
Bharat,...Abhuthanam Dharmasya, Tadatman Srujamyaham, Partranay
Sadhunam, Vinashayacha Dushkrutam, Dharma Sansthapnay, Sam Bhavami
YUGE YUGE#
I feel(and must say I haven't done any Study whatsoever, so Please forgive
me if this is Not Relevant to the point of Discussion),I believe Could point
to some answers to this very Deep question and its expression in Gita. I
eagerly look to Learn about this From Swamijee and All the learned
Members. truly.#lv. jagdish

Lisa Brown Why does Shiva dance? For the sheer joy of it! We all have
been invited to the dance. Will you dance with me? Namaste!

Randy Sabin Man is God’s energetic probe, created to explore the infinite
possibilities of awareness , in the ever expanding universal consciousness ,
that is us and God , we are his dream, and we dream him neither can exist
without the other, its a symbiotic relationship!! The God of the Gods is Time
and Time is eternity!! Humble opinion!
Mrityunjayanand Jee ...I reward my worshippers according to the nature of
their devotion; I assist them in the same degree. It is the worshipper’s
dedication that is returned to him as grace. Knowing this secret, the
righteous conduct themselves with single-mindedness according to the way
laid down by me. They who are dear to me act according to my way. They
do what I ordain them to do. And in that case....I dance with them...and they
dance with me...!

God shows his favour by standing with the worshipper as a charioteer; he

begins to walk along with the worshipper and manifest his glory. This is the
form of his loving care. He stands up for the destruction of forces that
generate wickedness and to protect righteous impulses that provide access to
reality. Unless the worshipped God acts as the earnest charioteer who alerts
at every step, despite his dedication and closing his eyes in meditation, and
all other endeavours, the worshipper cannot cope with the adversities of the
material world successfully.

How is he to know how much distance he has covered and how much more
remains to be covered? The adored God stands inseparably with the Self and
guides him: that he is now at this point, that he should do this, and walk like
that. Thus the gulf of nature is gradually bridged and, guiding the Soul ahead
by gradual steps, God at last enables him to merge into him.

Worship and adoration have to be performed by the devotee, but the distance
on the path which is covered by the devotee is only by God’s grace.
Knowing this, men who are pervaded by divine sentiment through and
through follow Sri Krishn’s precept.

Sri Krsihn dances with them.....and they dance with Sri Krishn.....!!!

Narinder Bhandari all is indeed the ' Doing' of the Naughty Natkhat ....... HE
needs to be chastised ! Will you do it for narinder, sweet Mrityunjayanand
Jee? AUM

Mrityunjayanand Jee You kindly do for me and I will for you or both of us
should do jointly with double strength for ourselves. That Naughty Natkhat
is very..very clever. HE will immediately plan some other game with magic
of HIS flute.
Narinder Bhandari ah....... the joy and pain of Love ....... this Death Divine
..... The Beloved's Gift AUM

Mrityunjayanand Jee The promise of Sri Krishn:"Arjun, you shall dwell in

me".....is this same Death divine. This is the state of the most exalted
excellence.

Narinder Bhandari Aum yes ......................

Annunziata Nancye Volta There is only one light in the whole Universe

Annunziata Nancye Volta God is light we are God

Annunziata Nancye Volta God is creation we are creation

Mrityunjayanand Jee Says Sri Krishn:

"...aham krtsnasya jagatah prabhavah pralayastathā

...I am both the creator and the end of the whole world..."
...
God is the root of the whole universe, both its creator and destroyer. It
springs from him and is also dissolved in him. He is the spring of nature as
long as it exists, but he is also the power that dissolves nature after a sage
has overcome its limitations. The whole creation looks to be existing in
between some where and the purpose best known to creator himself or to
whom.... this divine death happens.

But this is a matter of intuition, totally secret. At this state of most exalted
excellence, every thing gets merged in etrnal silence forever. Now how to
explore: "What purpose creation?"

Is there really any creation or looks like through glass of delusions for
certain visions though in a very very huge majority? Humble wishes!

Om Kiran

Beyond the self is the family.

Beyond the family is the community.
Beyond the community is the country.
Beyond the country is the world.
Beyond the world is the Self
.....I am quoting Ajay Kapoor here, to make my point.....
indeed these lines speak of the One Self expanding into the Whole.....and the
whole condensing into the One....which is perfect... call it a Circle..or call it
Zero.....call it Everything or call it Nothingness.......it is one and the
same......that is wht Creation is all about......my Question is..when everything
finally has to dissolve into nothingness...into the Deep Silence.......why
Creation at all?.....Why the Play of Good- bad,of Knowledge- Ignorance, of
light and its absence thereof.....of Pain-Pleasure....of Joy and untold misery n
Suffering...?....of Strife n Realization?......Why?..Why?.....Oh yes..we can
come up with answers galore......these answers mostly seek to negate the
Question itself.....I set a lot by the Bhagwad Geeta, or whatever I know of
it......hence my Query....How does the Geeta answer my Question.....

Om Kiran My Question embraces Ramaswamy Sathyanarayanan's Question

too.....
"Even without wishing, under whose guidance does a man commit
sin?".....some would lead this Question to Karma, and let it rest there........for
me, i seek beyond the idea of Karma ,... ...for Karma comes after
Creation....... so back again to the Question...What Purpose Creation?.......

Narinder Bhandari somewhere somewhere ........ the play of the Intellect

becomes the obstacle to our aspirations ..... and our awareness not conscious
of it .... the answer eludes the question being asked ...... for only the self can
answer it ....... the points being made. or raised ,themselves contain the
answer .................... Silence is the true Answer, not intellect ............. The
Seeker True ........... may not need ANY answers to move into Silence
....................................( smiles )AUM

Om Kiran Silence is the Answer, not the Question......

Narinder Bhandari aum .....yes

Om Kiran one moves into Silence eventually, for that is the Only
way.....there is no choice absolutely...

Narinder Bhandari Silence indeed is the source of Silence ... choices made
lead to it .................. that is the paradox ! .........................AUM

Kora Koos What if BG Chap3, V10 onwards do not treat about creation but
about the genesis (shrishti) of the ancient (pura) culture, whereby the ruler of
the people (prajapati) established the obligation of performing yagnya in
order to create a moral... and religious bond between the cultured actors,
needing to appropriate nature for their survival and prosperity, and the
celestial dispensers (devas) of natural objects and gifts. The yagnya is a
method of thanking the forces of nature for the objects and gifts and
represents a symbolic pledge to respect natural balance and order and the
Supreme Power underlying nature and natural order

Kora Koos Yagnya stands for the appropriate and most reverent manner of
demonstrating that (ya) realisation(gnya), which may take various forms,
using different materials (dravya).

Dwarka Kalantry Koraji: Another reference to creation comes in BG 14:3

and 4 where Bhagwan says " I am father of the creation and my prakriti is
the mother" He also says in BG 7:14 that "My maya is hard to overcome, but
those who take refuge in Me alone cross beyond it." We are in the realm of
apara prakriti and we are trying to fathom the para prakriti. Its like second
grader trying to solve PhD level problem. Best regards.

Mrityunjayanand Jee Though I am not able to go through the details of

previous posts as already mentioned, but I wish to add some thing for
sharing.

Sri Krishn says in Chapter seven of Bhagavad Gita:

"I am the creator of all nature with its eight divisions-earth,... water, fire,
wind, ether, mind, intellect, and ego. This nature, O the mighty-armed, is the
lower, insensate nature, but against it there is my conscious, living nature
which animates the whole world."

The nature with eight parts is God’s lower nature, dull and insensible. But,
along with this, there is his conscious nature which impregnates and gives
life to the whole world. But the individual Soul too is "nature" because it is
associated with the other, lower nature.

All beings spring from these animate and inanimate natures. These are the
two sources of all.

Men have always been intrigued by these universal questions of creation and
destruction, which is sometimes called "doom". Almost all holy books of the
world have attempted to explain these phenomena in one way or another.
Some of them insist that the end of the world is brought about by
submersion under water, while according to others the earth is annihilated
because the sun comes too close to it and burns it. Some call the event the
Day of Final Judgement, the day on which God judges all beings, while
others explain away the idea of doom as a recurrent feature or as dependent
on a specific cause. According to Sri Krishn, however, nature is without
beginning and end. Changes there have been, but it has never been
completely destroyed.

Kora Koos Dwarkajee: Agreed, 14:3 & 4 deal with manifestation of the
universe using the human reproduction mode as illustration, whereby
Purusha impregnates Prakriti, which eventually delivers the evolving
universe and keeps it under its sway (Maya). But chapter 3 talks about an
altogether different matter as indicated above.

Mrityunjayanand Jee According to Indian mythology, Manu experienced a

doom in which eleven sages had sailed, by tying their boat to the fin of a
fish, to a towering peak of the Himalayas and found shelter there. In sacred
composition called the Shreemad Bhagwat, which is contemporaneous with
Sri Krishn-God came down to earth for his pleasure-and dealing with his life
and precepts, the sage Mrikandu’s son Markandeya Ji has rendered an
account of the doom he claims to have seen with his own "eyes."He lived on
the north of the Himalayas, on the bank of the Pushpbhadr river.

According to Chapters 8 and 9 of the twelfth section of Shreemad Bhagwat,

the great sage Shaunak and some others told Sut Ji (a pupil of Vyas) that
Markandeya Ji had had a vision of Balmukund (infant Vishnu) on a Banyan-
leaf. But the difficulty was that he belonged to their lineage and was born
only sometime before them; and it was a fact that the earth was never
submerged and destroyed after his birth. With all this, how was it possible
that he had beheld destruction of the earth? What kind of deluge was it?

Sut Ji told them that, pleased with his prayers, God had manifested himself
to Markandeya Ji, who had then expressed his wish to see God’s maya,
driven by which the Soul has to wander through endless births. God had
granted his wish and one day, when the sage was sitting absorbed in
contemplation, he saw towering, furious waves of the sea hurtling on to him
from all sides. Terrible fishes leapt from the waves. He scurried here and
there to save himself. The sky, the sun, the moon, heaven itself, and all the
constellations were drowned in the flood. In the meantime he saw a Banyan
tree with an infant on one of its leaves. As the child breathed in, Markandeya
Ji was drawn inside him by the inrushing air, and there he discovered his
hermitage along with the solar system and the whole universe alive and
intact.

Kora Koos Mythology should not be read and translated literally using the
linear, logical way of thinking. They reflect deeper realities that are
apprehended only through meditation...

Mrityunjayanand Jee Soon after, he was cast out with an exhalation. When
his eyes opened at last, Markandeya Ji found him self safe on his seat in his
hermitage. So whatever he had seen was but a dream-a vision.

It is evident that the sage had this divine, transcendental vision-this intuitive
experience - only after worship spread over years beyond reckoning. It was a
perception by his Soul; everything outside was the same as before.

So doom, too, is an event that is revealed by God within the heart of a yogi.
When at the completion of the process of worship, worldly influences cease
to be and only God remains in the yogi’s mind-that is doom. This dissolution
is not an external phenomenon.

Final doom is the inexpressible state of the total identity of Soul with God
while the body yet is. This Is something that can be felt through action
alone. Whether it is you or me, we are victims of delusion if we judge by the
mind alone.

Sri Krishn says in Chapter seven:

"There is, O Dhananjay, not even one object other than me, and the whole
world is linked up with me like the pearls of a necklace."

There is absolutely nothing else except God and the whole world is tied up
with him. But it is possible to know this only when one engages in yog with
total resignation to God, and never before this. Participation in yog is an
indispensable necessity to know the creator, HIS creation, it's purpose
behind and the doom which all seems to be a game within realm of heart of
A true Yogi. Other than this, what so ever is being observed, realized, felt.....
certainly looks like an imaginary vision full of delusions. Creation is infinite
and will ever remain infinite without any beginning or its end and with some
purpose or without any purpose. Humble wishes.

Kora Koos Purnamada purnamidam....

Mrityunjayanand Jee And that is what has been expounded above.....as

posted already:..."Participation in yog is an indispensable necessity to know
the creator, HIS creation, it's purpose behind and the doom which all seems
to be a game within realm of heart of ...A true Yogi. Other than this, what so
ever is being observed, realized, felt..... certainly looks like an imaginary
vision full of delusions. Creation is infinite and will ever remain infinite
without any beginning or it's end and with some purpose or without any
purpose."......That's the conclusion already mentioned.

Kora Koos Respected sir. Doom is something kora knows about directly. He
had a "doom" experience in May 2009, when he left work, house, family,
property, everything and had a dying experience. In the darkness of death,
the Enlightening Being shone from beyond the darkest spheres and talked to
him and entrusted him with a work together promising him that all this was
but the Divine Design, the Divine Play willed by the Being. See kora's notes
"the Light beyond death" if you feel like. The Light says "I'm your True
Self". It absorbed the whole of manifestation in Its Light and there was only
Light and as per Its will, everything re-emerged from the Light. The
experience was not mythology; it was real.

Mrityunjayanand Jee It's fine Kora that you have already experienced it and
have no confusion at any stage. And do you feel that our all mythology is
unreal? I have already seen your note and happy to find that these divine
experiences could be framed within the frame of words as well.

Kora Koos Kora was delivered from death and restored back to life and
complete health. He sat for the MA examinations and came out with a
distinction as predicted by the Enlightening Being. All this does not mean
that kora is a special guy; no sir it's the Being, the state of Enlightening, the
Purushottama that is extraordinary. And this is what we all are in our true
essence. Vasudevam sarvam iti.

Mrityunjayanand Jee And yes I do agree that even after knowing every
thing, every thing still remains to be known.
Mrityunjayanand Jee I am not going to deny your status any way. I am
happy to know all about this. Absolutely happy.

Kora Koos Living itself is Yoga and participating in this yoga is blissful.
This bliss is for all and is there underlying everyone; only a dropping of our
conditioned lens is required. And you know this perfectly well, revered sir.

Mrityunjayanand Jee And that's the biggest problem? Dropping of our

conditioned lens? But my experience is that living in any way is not Yoga
and any way living can not be blissful in any case. But I have no intention to
impose my views upon others findings. Individual differences are always
there.

Narinder Bhandari and finally ...... all the Wisdom is ( and can be
condensed in ), PERHAPS , three akshars ..... Ha-Ha-ha- ... OR perhaps in
just ONE ....Ha ! The Sufis said just " HU" ha-ha-ha- AUM

Dwarka Kalantry Narinderji: "....... all the Wisdom is (and can be condensed
in ), PERHAPS , three akshars ... Ha-Ha-ha- ... OR perhaps in just ONE
....Ha ! The Sufis said just " HU" ha-ha-ha- AUM" But why not just AUM,
Bhagwan recommends it in 17:24!

Narinder Bhandari True ............................

Narinder Bhandari aum The words are but words ..... the Essence is beyond
... Bliss. Silence . The Silent Sound of Aum is ever reverbrating in the
Universe AUM

Narinder Bhandari OM...The soundless sound

The wordless word
Silence
Silence
The womb of all words that lead us into its own Being....silence !
As also plays the game of words
That lead us away from Itself... it's own Being
Into the vastness of the Brahamand !

Love it is that choicelessly gives us The freedom to choose

And keeps on playing the Game till we choose Love to enter the portals of
Love divine !
Itself Silence Being Om The soundless sound divine !
AUM

Tsimi James Narinder's words are blessed with Truth and greatly accepted
with Gratitude

Tsimi James "The thing that is really hard, and really amazing, is giving up
on being perfect and beginning the work of becoming yourself."

Narinder Bhandari Tsimi Beloved self .......may narinder quote from his
Notes ...? THE SPIRITUAL EGO
the spiritual ego is subtle, cunning superior, inferior and secretive.
the spiritual ego develops because ego has to live somewhere until it
dissolves.
if you are a seeker of truth, the ego identifies with your quest and can
become serious and secretly superior.
the inner reality of seekers is never quite as beautiful as the ideals of their
tradition and they decorate their ego so it looks a little nicer.
this is a common trap for many seekers and one from which it is difficult to
escape.
authenticity and playfulness are the antidote.
for this you will need support from those who are already living in this way.
when the ideal is authenticity, not purity, you are free to be yourself.
authenticity and playfulness give you the space to face yourself as you are
and to confront your darkness consciously. this conscious self-encounter
brings purity indirectly, without the hypocritical burden of a spiritually pure
ego.

~Maitreya Ishwara
AUTHENTICITY AND PLAYFULNESS are the antidote AUM

Kora Koos Usually, most of our questions find their genesis in the answers
that we already possess and in the beliefs we cherish. Real inquiry into any
matter is an altogether different matter, which requires a clear, virgin mind
that is capable of immaculate conception.

Dwarka Kalantry Omji: One looks upon Him as a marvel, another likewise
speaks of Him as a marvel; another hears of Him as a marvel; and even after
hearing, no one whatsoever has known Him. (BG 2:29) Best regards.
Kora Koos Truth is a marvel because truth is not an object to be known.
Kshetragnya is the continuous knowing of the field together with its events,
objects, entities, sensations, feelings, thoughts, knowledges as captured and
processed through the instruments of experience. This is the true marvel,
indeed. Pranaams.

Rajan Sood Truth is the subject without any object.

Kora Koos This projects truth as an exclusive concept. What if truth is the
enlightening of the whole of existence, the very basis of reality (which also
constitutes illusion), the substratum of everything known, knowable and
unknowable? Truth is the all-inclusive, immanent as well as transcendent as
you pointed out above. Greetings!

Rajan Sood Truth does include the illusion as there is nothing else.

Kora Koos Truth is the Enlightening underlying everything, everything. Get

anything and the underlying basis is truth, inescapable truth. Hari Om tat sat.

Koosraj KORA VENCIAH

koosradha@gmail.com
Mauritius