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Non-Believing of Religion
by LongLong Long on Saturday, February 19, 2011 at 9:38pm

Physicist : I am going to introduce you Newton’s Laws of Motion.

Philosopher : Well you may start.

Physicist : Force is equal to mass times acceleration.

Philosopher : Now what is force?

Physicist : Force is something that changes the motion of an object, and changes the shape of an object.

Philosopher : But force is also something that controls one’s action, like “I order you to clean up the room by

force.”

Physicist : Yes but that is some other meaning of force, and is out of the case.

Philosopher : What out of the case?! Are you ignoring the truth in front of you and developing an idea based

on something that is not fully true?

Physicist : That is simply not the kind of force I am dealing with. I am telling you the force which is the one

in this context.

Philosopher : Therefore the force you mentioned is not the force people used to understand?

Physicist : Indeed, I am telling you force is something that changes the motion of an object, and changes

the shape of an object.

Philosopher : Then it makes no difference with power. The more powerful you are, the more you can change

the motion and the shape of an object.

Physicist : Power is the rate of transfer of energy.

Philosopher : So it means force is the rate of transfer of energy.

Physicist : Force is something that transfers energy.

Philosopher : So force is both the “transfer” and also the “rate of transfer” of energy? How can it be?

Physicist : Well it can’t be.

Philosopher : Then why do forces not also the rate of transfer of energy since power and force is just the

same?

Physicist : But I am telling you force and power are not the same!

Philosopher : But I am disagreeing that.

Physicist : That is what I want you to agree so that I can further explain the idea!

Philosopher : How come you can develop an idea with a base that is so shaky?

Physicist : Alright! If you disagree with the meaning then just forget about force and power! I now use

alphabetical feature to explain it. F is equal to m times a.

Philosopher : Then why not F equals to m plus a?

Physicist : Because it’s simply not! F is equal to m times a, while E is equal to F times d, P is equal to E

over t.

Philosopher : Are you telling me a mathematical story? Just like Felicia is the daughter of Matthew and Alice,

while Eddy is the son of Felicia and Donald.

Physicist : No, this is something that’s applicable! Because F represents force.

Philosopher : Therefore F also represents power.

Physicist : Power is P!
Philosopher : So P is also force.

Physicist : You don’t understand!

Philosopher : How can I understand something that doesn’t make sense?!

Physicist : # $ % @ π Ω & €..!

1 You see in the dialogue above, the philosopher can hardly understand Newton’s Laws of Motion. This is

because he keeps introducing his own understanding of things into the idea the physicist tries to deliver. The

result as you see, total chaos! The Newton’s Laws are described as absurd due to this confusion. If the

dialogue is happening in front of a crowd with no scientific knowledge, the crowd will think the physicist is an

idiot that doesn’t know what himself actually saying.

2 The point is that I want to prevent such confusion by not mixing up your own understanding with my

understanding. My idea comes in a package; it won’t make sense if you mix it up with your own idea. It’s

best to go Socratic by assuming you know nothing and carefully evaluate my idea without mixing it with

yours.

3 What I was doing all these while is that I want to have a summary for my understanding of the world. I see

there are studies conducted on various aspects of the world. There is biology that deals with living things,

there is astronomy that deals with the sky, there is geology that deals with the ground, and there is

psychology that deals with human behaviours. It seems to me that time that they are just studies on

different aspect of the world, that’s all; never do I ever thought of connecting these knowledge to one

another.

4 By the time I was form 1, I laid doubt on my religion, the Chinese polytheism. Why is it by burning

something, I can send that something to a dead person? If I burn a shirt, the dead person can get the shirt; if

I burn money, they can get money. But if I were to burn a wood and they can receive it, then how can I send

a charcoal to them? Is that when I burn the wood, they get the wood, and I burn it again they will get the

charcoal? What if I burn the wood in continuous fire? This just doesn’t make sense! Therefore by form 2 I

completely leaved religion and went atheist, and since then I trusted science happily ever after.

5 People often ask me, can science explain the spirit possession phenomena that constantly happening in

my society that time. As an amateur follower of science, I naively said: “those things simply never have

happened.” But later I realised that I wrongly treated science. I was taking science as if it is a religion; when

people were showing me something that seemed supernatural, I went and claimed “no, no, no, that was just

psychology in action,” since that’s the famous answer I saw on TV, I kept on avoiding those things, science is

true anyway! But I didn’t even have philosophical base for trusting science by that time.

6 Only by form 4 as I gained more knowledge in physics, chemistry and biology, did I find that these studies

about the world seem to be interconnected. In biology, there is synthesis of protein, enzymes and so on, and

I said “hey, isn’t that chemistry?” In chemistry, chemical reactions take place where molecules are colliding

with each other, and I said “hey, isn’t that physics?”

7 I began to think if I can summarise all the knowledge, like arranging a puzzle, into one big picture. I can

see many people do it too, but instead of joining sciences together, they are joining religions together.

Chinese polytheism was mixed with Buddhism, and then mixed with animism. One day, I saw a ritual

conducted by my own family where they bring upon pork for a ‘soil god’; my uncle suddenly said “wait, not

all the soil god can eat that, some of them are Muslims.” That’s a terrible way of summarizing the world.

8 Most people with education, tend to summarize things in another way; which they say there are things that

have no scientific explanation. But doing that will cause something that I don’t like; if you make a mind map

of that, you will find that there are two clusters of idea, namely rationalism and belief. There is a bridge

connecting the two; to go through the bridge, you have to cast a magic spell. For example, when you go

from rationalism to belief, you have to say “there are things that can’t be explained.”

9 I don’t like this concept of ‘dual properties’ of nature, I want one big picture. But first, I need an outline. I

went for physics since it is the study of the universe at its most fundamental level. When I got into modern

physics, I found that it supplies a great summary for the working principles of the universe. All the

complexity we see now is the result of many things behaving by obeying the fundamental principles.

10 Let us talk about how things affect each other in the world, like why a ball will move away if another

pushes it? Why magnets attract metals? Why the Sun so far away can make things on Earth get hot? These

are all “interactions” between matters, or you can call its former name “force”. Without interaction/force, the

universe won’t have changed even a bit since the creation. If you push a ball and it moves away, means

there is an interaction between your hand and the ball.

11 People may tend to get idea that force is only a ‘term’ describing the situation like “I push, it moves.”

They say it is simply a ‘term’. The whole thing is that simply you push the ball, and then it moves; force is

just a term describing the phenomenon. No! It is not simply a term. It is a really something like “spooky

action at a distance” between your hand and the ball.

12 To explain this I need to introduce ‘atom’ to you. All matters are composed of particles called atoms; your

computer, as you look at its surface, you see a uniformly continuous surface. But just like looking at a beach

from outer space, it looks smooth from afar but actually composed of sands. When the atoms are closely

packed, we see a solid; if further away, it’s liquid; even further away; we have gas.

13 An atom has a nucleus at the middle, and electrons orbiting around it. Here’s the interesting thing, let say

a nucleus is like a basket ball and an electron is like ping pong ball, then how far away does the orbit of the

electron? The answer is something like 20 kilometres away! This implies that a neighbouring nucleus is at

minimum 40 kilometres away, with so much empty space in between! Solids, I mean those damn solid, are

actually damn hollow. A ball is actually a ‘cloud’ of atoms.

14 Now we have two clouds of atoms, and they go toward each other, what will happen? They should have

merged into one another. But the fact is that they don’t; when the atoms of your hand approach the atoms

of the ball, they repel each other. This is the result of force, it’s electromagnetic force, the same interaction

as those between magnets.

15 Besides electromagnetic force, there is gravitational force which is the attraction between matters that

have mass. The heavier the object, the stronger the attraction between them, the Earth, for example, is

heavy, therefore the interaction between you and the Earth is stronger, you and the Earth is pulling each

other with the same magnitude of force.

16 There are also two nuclear forces which are the interactions between nuclei, the strong and the weak.

The nucleus of an atom is made up of protons and neutrons, or can simply call them ‘hadrons’. A hadron is

composed of three ‘quarks’, they are held together by strong nuclear force. Then the hadrons are held in

place at the nucleus also by the strong nuclear force, but this time it’s call the ‘residual strong force.’ The

weak force I haven’t familiar yet.

17 Now you see all the changes we see in the world are the results of these four interactions/forces. The

most observable is the electromagnetic force, which responsible for the working of computer, bowling, what

makes your flesh does not disintegrate like gas, and for brain’s function. As I said, no interactions/forces, no

changes/transformations will occur. Everything that changes/transforms is the result of interactions/forces.

18 Well when someone gets you to clean up the room by force, what does this mean? That person is causes

vibration of air molecules through electromagnetic force, then vibration shakes your eardrum, which then

transform into electrical impulses, also due to electromagnetic force, to the brain. The pulses then go

through the brain as if they are moving through a maze; this ‘going through a maze’ is actually what

scientists mean when they say “information is interpreted.” Then the pulses are channelled out into nerves

and to the muscle cells, causing them to contract, and clean up your room.

19 People tend to ask me, if everything is about science, then how about metaphysics? How can science

explain the metaphysical occurrences that frequently strike villagers? But first I will require you to read this

page in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

20 You can see what metaphysics is dealing with? Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy concerned with

explaining the fundamental nature of being and the world. Isn’t it just like physics? Now let have an example

of what people so-called a metaphysical phenomenon; let say ghost phenomena. There must have been

interactions between people and the ‘ghost’, if not; they simply won’t have noticed any ghost there.

21 Remember how people ask you to clean up the room ‘by force’? They have interactions with air, which

later has interactions with your eardrum. So metaphysical things, if people were to claim they exist, must

have had interactions with them, people won’t come around and say “hey, there’re metaphysical things in

the world but no one had ever feel it, nor anyone had see it, no one can even detect it.” You can’t see it but

at least you detected it if you want to claim it ever existed.

22 If you go and ask a physicist how they are going to explain the metaphysical things, they will say you are

such a humorous guy; because all this while, they ARE dealing with metaphysical things. Can you see the

shape of an atom? Even if you if you use the most powerful microscope, you can’t possibly see it. When you

look at things like a bowling ball, what happens is that the light particles reflected from the ball strike the

retina of your eyes, the pattern of the light particles make your brain ‘interprets’ out the shape of the ball.
How small is a nucleus that probably only several light particles hit it, and how many of those will be

reflected to your eyes? Can you see the shape of what you are capturing if there are only 2 or 3 pixels in

your camera?

23 Atoms are metaphysical stuff, and so too the subatomic particles. They can’t be seen, but can be

detected. Particles of light, photon, according to the theory of relativity proposed by Albert Einstein, are

things that do not experience the flow of time. They are things that are outside of time. Can you imagine

such a situation as “outside of time”? Light is metaphysical! Physical objects as we see in everyday life are

the appearance of metaphysical things, or more precisely, physical things are just an illusion created by our

brain. We say a cloud of atoms as “bowling ball”. We, ourselves are clouds of atoms. Reality as we know is

an illusion.

24 Several decades ago, physicists found out that matters make up only 4.6% of the content in the universe.

So where’s the rest 95.4%? Actually there are things out there called the dark matters. Dark matters make

up 22.7%; but why all this while we do not know their existence? Because all this while we, matters are only

weakly interacting we them. There are constantly clouds of dark matters going through our body without us

realising it, they weakly interact through other force beside gravity. Dark energy on the other hand makes up

the rest 72.7%, but I am not quite familiar with so I don’t want to say much.

25 If what we see of the world is what so-called physical, then there are 95.4% metaphysical things that fill

up the universe. We are just the remaining 4.6%. We are the one supposed to be called ‘metaphysics.’ Our

common sense is so limited to such a small aspect of the universe, common sense is so extremely

uncommon.

26 If a bowling ball remains at rest and there is another ball collides with it, they will be pushed away by one

another. Imagine an entire planet is covered by these balls with different colour constantly colliding each

other, we go to outer space and look at the planet; and we will see a dance of colour. The fundamental

building block of everything are subatomic particles, the interactions between them are responsible for the

complex ‘physical’ phenomena that we see in daily life. In analogy, the bowling balls are like subatomic

particles; and the colour dance on the planet as we see from afar is like the chemical process we see in daily

life.

27 The fundamental working principle of the world is studied in physics, or to be precise, modern physics. All

complex things like psychology are determined by the interactions between subatomic particles. But as

interactions get complicated where 10 to the power of 20+ particles are involved, and millions of variables

involved instead of only three in F=ma, we started to get blurred and forget that everything is actually

quantum physics in action.

28 People begin to make independent explanations for the damn complex interactions. For examples,

instead of biology, there’s yin and yang in medicine; instead of psychology, there’s demonology. Newtonian

mechanics too happens to be only a rough indication of behaviours of clouds of atoms; when two clouds of
atoms collide, Newton treated them like two particles colliding, and only one average force representing all

zillions of individual repulsive forces from all the atoms.

29 Consciousness therefore should be a ‘phenomenon’ rather than a ‘thing.’ We ourselves of course can

hardly realise this, because each and every one of us is the consciousness itself. There is the concept of

determinism, which are often the ‘religion’ among scientists. Newton for example, believes in determinism,

where he says God create the universe, and the universe since then behaves obeying his three laws of

motion. Albert Einstein too, a determinist, trying to unified all the principles in physics and read what he

called the ‘mind of God.’

30 In determinism, everything in the universe happens by following a set of rules; if you can know all the

rules, you can predict the future as precise as you view the past. The notion of free will is an illusion. Living

things, human for example, think that when they raise their hand, it’s because they want to. They take

control of their arms. But in fact, the action of raising their hand is already determined at the quantum level.

31 Impulses that go to the brain is either directly comes from the receptor detecting the outside stimuli like

sounds and temperature; or also could be from something stored internally, like what you eat before, blood

pressure, memories. All these combination of impulses form a pattern and go to your brain and go through

the ‘maze,’ when they go out of the brain, they get into an organized pattern which act together to raise

your hand. You think you are the one who control it your hand; but In fact the act of thinking “I am

controlling my hand” is also determined at the quantum level. Consciousness is an illusion.

32 I still remember madam said in the class “ramai saintis sekarang ini apabila mereka dah berilmu, mereka

lupakan agama, tapi sebenarnya mereka SILAP.” “Kita perlukan agama untuk mengisi aspek rohani kita.”

But there is no spiritual aspect of us in my understanding. We are robots and our brains are computers. Of

course brains and computers are not totally the same. Computers are made up of silicon and other inorganic

materials; while brains are made up of organic materials. Computers are more to physics while brain is more

to biology, but both are electronic.

33 Non-living things as we can see undergoes slow transformation, like stone erosion; living things on the

other hand are often easily transform, due to its complexity. Our brain, made up of biological stuff is

therefore complex enough to possess creativity, but also due to that, brains have problem in remembering

and dealing with confusion. But computers are performing tasks smoothly when they are programmed to do

so. Brains is said to be able to do things creatively without being programmed.

34 But actually, human brains are constantly being programmed when new information is gained. When

electrical impulses go through the ‘maze’ it also make changes on the ‘maze’. So our brain is constantly

being installed by new software while it stores memory; unlike in computers where ‘saving’ and ‘installing’

are different things. This is responsible for our ‘learning’ as well as indirectly leads to creativity.

35 People like to associates brains with souls; they say brain has a soul. But either there’s a soul or not,

human behaviours are determined at the quantum level, which then implies, not the soul/spirit that controls

the brain, it’s the brain who controls the soul/spirit. If we can make a computer that resembles a brain, it too
can have soul/spirit. So if soul/spirit were to exist anyway, it is within the realm of science, not to be thought

as something mystical.

36 Now you see all the questions about the universe can be answered from a same root. So what for

organizing your ideas about the universe in two clusters; one here is science, and another there is religion?

Maybe science today isn’t advanced enough to fill in the detail to this outline, and also my knowledge of

science is damn poor. But that’s not important; the main point is the ‘summary’, the outline joining all

aspects of nature are within science.

37 Some people if they don’t have religion, people say their mind is lost. But I don’t feel so. I think the main

point isn’t about having religion or not, it’s about having a ‘summary’ or not. Religions provide a summary by

answering the fundamental questions of metaphysical stuff in scriptural ways. Science does that too. So

what’s the point for me having a religion if I already have a ‘summary’ for the world, even if it is just an

outline with incomplete detail?

38 Evolution is a vital part in my outline, since it is by far the only promising explanation, linking the early

Earth and the diversity today. Ridiculing it in front of the class to me is just like ridiculing the story of Adam

and Eve to you. Why can people consider the feeling of other with religions but can’t think for those without

religion? Is it because Malaysia wants to prevent communism?

39 When you see a bowling ball staying at rest relative to the floor, then another bowling ball moving from

the left comes into contact with the ball at rest. Then why did the ball initially at rest will move? It's because

the second ball pushes it.

40 Now imagine there are countless bowling balls black in colour covering the entire surface of the planet

and they are all in constant motion and colliding perfectly elastically. Do each of them move and change

direction due to collision with others? Yes. Then, you go and watch the whole thing from space and you see

the planet is all black, 'cause the black bowling ball covers the surface. But you notice something

extraordinary, there is a small white patch suddenly appear on the planet. Now you started to think, how can

there be a region where the balls seem to be avoiding? It's highly unlikely that there will be rarefaction of

balls just because of the random movements of balls on the planet.

41 You ask for experts to find out why. Then the experts are unable to answer it and they say there are

simply too many balls constantly in motion on the planet. To find out why a particular ball moves this way,

they have to know how another ball collided with it earlier, but how can you deal with so many balls

altogether?

42 Unable to find the explanation, now you started to think, there MUST be something in the world that’s

simply without rational explanation. But think carefully, no matter how bizarre the balls seem to behave,

aren’t they all colliding and moving away and collide again, and each of the collisions is just like any other

collisions? Then why is it when there are only two ball colliding you say the first ball moves away because

the second ball pushes it but when things get complex where trillions of balls are involved and you see

something defying commonsense you go and say it’s something that’s without rational explanation? If you
say the rarefaction of balls is not caused by the random motion of the balls and say it’s simply without

explanation, then the movements of balls on the planet cause what? It’s a paradoxical statement. Saying

there’re things that are without rational explanation is just like saying one plus one can equal to three. It is in

principle impossible for a complex phenomenon to happen without rational explanation.

43 Imagine there is an empty box in front of you; you put a green apple into the box. Then you put a red

apple into the box, since 1+1=2, so there should be two apples in the box. But when you look inside the box,

there are three apples inside instead of two. Now are you going to say there’s something wrong with the box

or go back and correct your math, which 1+1=3?

44 There are many things in our live that seem to defy logic because they are highly unlikely. But just

because of that, we say there are things which simply have no rational explanation. The existence of life, the

fine-tuning of the universe, winning a lottery, these is all examples. There is nothing which is complex that

has no rational explanation, only for the very fundamental mechanism of the world, such as quantum

mechanics, can there be things that are without explanation. For example, an electron can be in many

places at a same time. Physicists offer no explanation for this, it simply is.

45 But how can electron be in several places at a same time being accepted as without explanation but the

strange biological process that happens can’t be without explanation? It’s simple. Because quantum

mechanics is how nature behaves at its most fundamental level, all the macroscopic interactions happen as

it seem to be as a result of interactions at the quantum level. Quantum mechanics→physical

chemistry→organic chemistry→biology→neurology→psychology→sosiology.

46 Some people say to me that I’m simply extrapolating and therefore unreliable. But I think I don’t have to

bring 10000 green apples and 10000 red apples to prove 10000+10000=20000. If I don’t connect the

complexity of the macroscopic world to the simplicity of the quantum world this way, then there will rise the

ball paradox again. What causes biology besides chemistry? What causes psychology besides neurology? If

biology is not caused by chemistry, then chemistry causes what? If psychology is not caused by neurology,

then neurology causes what?

47 Actually in principle alone, it is fine for me if people say psychology is also determined by soul; because

just like a metal ball changes direction can be the result of a magnetic field rather than just collision. But at

least, it links to the fundamental mechanics of the world, as electromagnetic force is one of the four

fundamental forces of the universe. If you say psychology is also determined by soul, then how can it be

linked to the current stream of quantum physics?

48 Ok, maybe the quantum physics today isn’t complete that there’s something else that it didn’t take into

consideration. But I look at the world and the interaction of things, there are only four types of interactions

can be found, and only two observable by unaided eyes. We can see gravity, the long distance attraction

between particles; electromagnetisms, the interaction between charged particle; and those we cannot see,

weak nuclear force that holds the nucleus of an atom together and is responsible for radioactive decay; and

strong nuclear force which holds the nuclei of atoms together.

49 These four forces already explain every interaction in the universe, so what is the force responsible for

the interaction between a non-physical soul with a physical brain? Are we going to introduce a new force for

it? If so, why every subatomic particle appear to only affected by those four forces, but a brain, also made up

of subatomic particles, as a whole, will be affected by a new force? This is contradictory enough for me. In

other words, I dismiss religious thinking isn’t because the God and souls exist or not, it’s because the

unexplanablities within the concept. If God created us, then how was it? As I mentioned earlier, it’s not valid

to say “God can make things simply happen,” because it leads to the ball paradox.

50 Some people are quick to realize that all my arguments are based on rational thinking, if something were

to be like this, and then there will be a paradox and so on. They say paradox is invalid in logic, but why

should logic be true anyway?

51 But as I pointed out earlier, allowing a paradox is just like allowing 1+1=3, then 3=4, 4=president Bush.

You use rational thinking when studying math, you use it when talking with others, and you even use it to

understand the scripture, but now you say it is unreliable? Without it, all that we know about the world will

collapse; we will be nothing better than monkeys, nor any better than insects.

52 But then they go further and say, rational thinking applies everywhere else but except for divinity. But

what I think is that why must you go so far? People use rational thinking everywhere and when it comes to

thinking about divinity, rationality doesn’t apply. Why? Why must people come out with such an absurd

description on the world just to save what they believe? Isn’t what they believe only comes from a book or

some sort, or taught by parents and since then being convinced among believers themselves? Is it worth for

coming out with such a solution to your world which logic applies there but not here, and paradox is not a

case here and so on? Just for a belief? If someone be able to come out with a system X to prove logic is valid

in divinity, will you say that system X to be wrong too?

53 By the time microbes were confirmed to be evolving to resist drug, evolution was already proven to be

true. Then William R. Rice and George W. Salt conducted experiment on 35 generations of fruit flies and they

did evolve, and it seems that they even underwent speciation. Even by the time palaeontology discovers

fossils where similar but not identical species lies atop one another within the strata, gradually changing with

depth on a same region, evolution was already highly convincing.

54 Pointing out that an organ is highly unlikely to have assembled through evolution isn’t even a point at all

in saying evolution is wrong. Through those discoveries alone will be enough to prove evolution has

happened. That will just raises a difficult question for scientists to answer, a puzzle to solve, not to say

evolution is wrong.

55 A similar case happens in the big bang theory, Edwin Hubble found that all the galaxies seem to moves

away from us; this indicates that the universe is rather expanding, the background radiation detected

confirmed it. But there’s a problem, physicist George Gamow realizes elements with 5 and 8 neutrons and

protons or more are extremely improbable to be created by the heat of the big bang. But does it mean the

big bang theory was proven wrong because of this problem? No.
56 So what should we do in a situation like this? There are two ways. One is two find the solution for that

based on the big bang theory, another is to dismiss the theory and come out with something new, which can

explain both the expansion and elementary problem. This is what physicist Fred Hoyle did. In his model,

portions of the universe were in fact expanding, but new matter was constantly being created out of nothing,

so that the density of the universe remained the same. He said that all the element can be synthesized

within the core of the Sun, not from the big bang. To him it seems impossible that a fiery cataclysm could

appear out of nowhere to send the galaxies hurtling in all direction; he prefer a smooth creation of mass out

of nothing. In other words, the universe is timeless, no beginning and end. It just is.

57 In evolution, it is proven that evolution does occur, just that there’s a puzzle like how can organs be

formed as if nature knows it is useful in the future, and the low possibility for it to have evolved from

chemical to life, as was described, also by Fred Hoyle, is like a Boeing 747 completely assembled by a

tornado striking a junkyard. This puzzle should stay for scientists to solve, not for creationists to take it and

say that’s the proof that evolution does not occur, and ridicule it in front of the class. All the creationists do is

that they try to disprove a possible explanation of our origin and come out with no alternative solution.

58 Please point out any mistakes you found regarding scientific fact in the text above so I can further revise

myself.

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Kenny Ng sorry 4 tat, internet slow like pig here.

February 22 at 5:33pm · Like

LongLong Long I tarik balik. They do not contradict. What contradict is determinism and religion...
February 22 at 5:35pm · Like
 ○

LongLong Long
Other examples of bad theory:
There is a mighty cat-like creature called Gerunsyahdat. Human are the hairs of Gerunsyahdat. When we die,
we will return to hairs and reunite with Gerunsyahdat. The universe is a space created by it.
Gerunsyahd...See More
February 22 at 7:10pm · Like · 1 person

Abdullah Mohammad 99 Names of Allah :http://www.arabacademy.com/download/99Names.htm

these names describes the characteristic of Allah, His Perfection and Flawlessness
February 22 at 7:11pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad Kenny : Ur welcome XD

February 22 at 7:15pm · Like

LongLong Long
I think you keep on using point that only deal with the amateur non believers. The amateur non-believer
favors empirical things. I am not!
By the time I wrote the note, I already well know that what believer do is that they keep on telling h...See More
February 22 at 7:17pm · Like

LongLong Long After the ball experiment, i also said something in paragraph, 43,44, 50,51 & 52.
February 22 at 7:19pm · Like

LongLong Long It's like you are telling me the problem after I tell you the solution...
February 22 at 7:20pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad You say : " They do not contradict. What contradict is determinism and religion..."
what do you mean?

What I want to tell you is about the omnipotent of God, you asked it before, so try to read and understand
the names..
February 22 at 7:21pm · Like

LongLong Long
30 In determinism, everything in the universe happens by following a set of rules; if you can know all the
rules, you can predict the future as precise as you view the past. The notion of free will is an illusion. Living
thin...See More
February 22 at 7:27pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad Your concept above is almost similar to the teaching of 'Qada' and Qadar' in Islam,
where all that happens in this world are already predetemined by Allah, even the movement of particle from
point A and point B.
February 22 at 7:36pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad *and->to

February 22 at 7:37pm · Like

LongLong Long
'all that happens in this world are already predetemined by Allah', this means that the big bang is because of
allah, AIDS is because of allah I raise my hand because of allah, I do not believes in allah because of allah, u
believe in alla...See More
February 22 at 7:47pm · Like
 ○

LongLong Long It's like if newton say F÷x=ma÷x...

February 22 at 7:52pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad Long : I hope you can respect me and my religions more. Rudeness is not necessary.
Now i will prpare my next point...
February 22 at 8:07pm · Like

LongLong Long I oredi mentioned earlier that my point won't be pleasant to hear. But it REALLY is my
point. In fact tat's an important point why I dont believe.
February 22 at 8:51pm · Like

LongLong Long I hope you look at the denotative meaning in my post n don't go n seek for any connotative
meaning(feeling). It might feel offensive but that IS my point. It's hard 4 me to find other way convey the
idea... I seldom 'like' your post n go 'like' theirs bcoz I really agree with them... I will 'like' your point if I agree
or feel that is a good point. Hope this will be an emotionless discussion.
February 22 at 9:02pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad
I will go one by one, starting with the gerunsyadat case,

If you say the Gerunsyadat is just an example, well it is a very bad example, nothing to do with Islam.
1. Human is not part of God, But created by God.
2.There is no such thing as reun...See More
February 22 at 9:08pm · Like

○
Kenny Ng abdullah: i think u still couldn't free yourself than your mindset---Islam is true, that's why you
couldn't get what long mean by his posts.
February 22 at 9:21pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad You also should free from your mindset, by doubting God doesn't exist. I already
gave you clear example from the Quran and link of website to further study about science in Islam. If Islam
really doubting me, I already leaving it long time already
February 22 at 9:32pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad *doubting God exist

February 22 at 9:32pm · Like

Kenny Ng abdullah: sorry but please differentiate mindset and scientific method, doubting is necessary in
discussion...doubting is not necessary in debate, we are discussing now, not debate. i tell u clearly now, at
here discussing, i'm doubting God as well as Science...
February 22 at 9:51pm · Like · 1 person

Kenny Ng in your case, u didn't even doubt your points or your sources of points, which make the
discussion looks like a debate.
February 22 at 10:05pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad
Kenny : I can differentiate between mindset and scientific method. If Quran have verse that says, for
example Earth is flat, Im sure I am not a Muslim right now. But as I study and read the Quran, not a single
verse contradict to what scien...See More
Wednesday at 12:30am · Like

○
Abdullah Mohammad
Long : about the paragraph 43, 44, you say that unlogic can be explained by science but now is not yet. I say
there are many things in this universe that unlogic, too many that they can be separated into 2 groups,
divine and not divine. For...See More
Wednesday at 1:29am · Like

Abdullah Mohammad You can also asked questions regarding Islam and God
here http://askaquestionto.us/ and view previous Q & A
Wednesday at 1:36am · Like

Abdullah Mohammad
Another miracles of Quran I want to point out

from http://www.quranmiracles.com/mmwh/mmlhread.asp?id=12

Atomic Number of Iron

...See More
Wednesday at 2:01am · Like

Kenny Ng see!!! your mindset is islam is true, although u have no proof that islam is true. I want to point
out that there are many other religions that claimed their theory of God is true besides islam, and all have no
proof...then how come u so persist islam is true although u have no proof?? that's why i keep telling u to be
more open-minded. I'm quite sure your ustaz won't kill u if u doubt God in this discussion.
Wednesday at 8:59am · Like

Aldrich Daniel
According to Edward de Bono:
A belief is a perceptual framework which leads us to see the world in a way which reinforces that framework.

in other words, when we truly believe in something, everything we perceive will reinforce that belief. h...See
More

Wednesday at 9:23am · Like · 2 people

 ○

LongLong Long Kenny: I think abdullah WAS giving proof.

Wednesday at 9:41am · Like

Aldrich Daniel long: i think what is kenny trying to say is: abdullah uses what he already accept as true
(Quran and hadith) to proof that the origin of such document(Islam) is true... hence, backward proofing.
excuse me if i offended anyone.
Wednesday at 9:49am · Like

LongLong Long
Abdullah: Now I understand why you say 'rudeness is not necessary', becoz all you see is that my post is a
sarcasm to your religion. Wat I point out in the Gerunsyahdat case is:
1. how it is possible to create a religion.
2. the verse can be ...See More
Wednesday at 10:56am · Like

LongLong Long
btw do you really understand what I mean with 'predicts future events'?
You say:
"but your example is very not suitable to the case of knowing the future events, your example is something
like outcome from an experiment based on hypothesis th...See More
Wednesday at 11:07am · Like

LongLong Long
'if you say that God exist and can be detected, then it means that God have weakness as He allow Himself to
be detected and He unable stopped it'
It's just like the case of Gerunsyahdat...

but i know u say in ur following sentence

'So how to ...See More
Wednesday at 11:19am · Like
 ○

LongLong Long
I think you should reevaluate what you believed all this while because I sense a severe circular reasoning in
it.

Btw, science is a circular reasoning too. F=ma, W=Fs, P=W/t, then what is a? a=F/m, or a=W/ms or a=Pt/ms.

But what's the differe...See More

Wednesday at 12:34pm · Like

LongLong Long
Then you will say that quran proved that god exist as it foretell the future.
Then I tell you to read the ball experiment.

Then if say not everything is 'logic',

you go read paragraph 50-52.
...See More
Wednesday at 12:43pm · Like

Abdullah Mohammad
Kenny : I can make analogy of what you are trying to say : When I am 9 years old, I don't know how Oxygen
is reproduced, as time pass by, I know that most of the oxygen reproduced by green plants, specifically in
organelle called chloroplas...See More
Wednesday at 12:47pm · Like · 1 person

LongLong Long
Maybe shamans, bomoh and Nostradamus can do that. Ive meet people that is said to be possessed by
'Datuk Gong', and he accurately described that I was passive at school but besar kepala at home. And there
are car accidence sometime before a...See More
Wednesday at 12:59pm · Like

LongLong Long
oya you haven reply this:
'all that happens in this world are already predetemined by Allah', this means that the big bang is because of
allah, AIDS is because of allah I raise my hand because of allah, I do not believes in allah because of...See
More

Wednesday at 1:02pm · Like · 1 person

Kenny Ng
abdullah: good job if u really can think like that, although i can't found in which comment u explained to me
clearly that u already doubting Islam before. But r u sure the proofs that u found is believable? This question
below is for u, if...See More
Wednesday at 1:46pm · Like

LongLong Long kenny: cut and connect his tongue?! really?!

Wednesday at 8:03pm · Like

Kenny Ng ya, at my place got...some sit at very sharp knife chair, also cucuk lembing to his mouth, then
after they remove it, no blood no wound.
Wednesday at 8:08pm · Like

LongLong Long abdullah: take ur time...

Wednesday at 9:04pm · Like · 1 person

LongLong Long Science is backward proving too. One comes out with a theory, then do experiments to test
the theory by examining whether or not the implication of the theory agree with the experiment ...
Wednesday at 10:04pm · Like

○
LongLong Long kenny: then that is not 'cut and connect'... =.=
Wednesday at 10:05pm · Like

Kenny Ng that's another example other than cut and connect...

Wednesday at 10:07pm · Like

Kenny Ng that's y i said we both Science and theory of God have no proof...=.='''
Wednesday at 10:08pm · Like · 2 people

LongLong Long oh I see...

Wednesday at 10:08pm · Like

Kenny Ng my mainpoint is believing both is more beneficial than only believing one of them.
Wednesday at 10:10pm · Like · 1 person

LongLong Long Btw, one embarassing thing!

kenny when you say 'objection',
I replied 'evaluate'
change it to 'elaborate' >.<ll
Thursday at 9:00pm · Like

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