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Volume 1 Issue 4
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UFO MATRIX

ANCIENT EXCLUSIVE
ASTRONAUTS
THE AGE OLD
QUESTION OF:
UFO
SPOTTED AT
IS GOD AN RENDLESHAM
ASTRONAUT? 30 YEARS ON!

MoD
X-Files
Towards a Scientific IS THERE A
and Societal Agenda
on Extraterrestrial
SECRET
Life by Nick Pope. SPACE
PROGRAM?
INTERVIEW WITH
GIORGIO TSOUKALOS
BY SEAN CASTEEL

THE 1945 SAN ANTONIO UK £5.99

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A UFO MATRIX EXCLUSIVE BY PAOLA HARRIS

IFC 14/1/11 13:23 Page 1
contents 16/1/11 13:04 Page 1

96

68

40

06 1945 UFO CRASH PART 1 26 NICK POPE

The 1945 UFO crash at San Anotonio - Part
One by Paola Harris. A UFO MATRIX
exclusive. The Reme Baca and Jose Padilla
witness case.
14 BERWYN DEBUNKERS
Scott Felton answers the critics of the
Berwyn Mountains UFO crash.
22 PHILIP GARDINER FEATURE
Philip Gardiner's regular sceptical column.
This time the Retilian agenda comes
under scrutiny.
Towards a Scientific and Societal Agenda
on Extraterrestrial Life.
32 INTERVIEW WITH GIORGIO TSOUKALOS
Sean Casteel interviews Giorgio Tsoukalos.
36 ANCIENT ASTRONAUTS
Smoking Gun of Egyptolgy found or not ?
Wayne Herschel examines the evidence.
40 BACKLIGHT
Mike Hallowell looks at another 'cold case'
file and sheds new light on an old mystery.
44 UNX-X DIRECTORS CUT
Raam Barros gives us information we
should be aware of, having put aside the
negatives which come with making a
disclosure and decides to explain the
occurrences, which were literally out of
this world
48 SECRET SPACE PROGRAM
Is there a secret space program? Richard
Thomas looks behind the Gary
McKinnon affair.

04 UFO MATRIX
contents 16/1/11 13:04 Page 2

CONTENTS

Volume 1 Issue 4
48

85

26 68 30TH ANNIVERSARY 94 COMPETITION

RENDLESHAM LECTURES A fantastic DVD collection up for grabs in
John Hanson gives us an account of the our competition!
recent Rendlesham anniversary lectures
in Suffolk. 95 COMING NEXT ISSUE
Find out what UFO MATRIX has in store for
74 OZ COLUMN our fact packed issue 5.
Our regular look at UFO sightings from
down-under by Sheryl Gottschall 96 NAZI RAIDERS
& Lee Paqui. Paul Stonehill looks at the Nazi's hunt for
the crystal skull in Brazil.
77 MAHABHARATA
Is there proof of ancient astronauts in the
ancient Indian text? Jijth Nadumuri Ravi
examines the evidence.
COMPETITION
UFO MATRIX has 3 copies of the
85 THE BERWYN MOUNTAIN DARK SKIES DVD to give away.
54 JAMES GILLILAND Sixteen years later, the Berwyn For your chance
Lorin Cutts takes this opportunity to Mountains would again be the focus for a to win a copy of
interview James Gilliland at his ranch near story involving a downed UFO. But this
this DVD
Mount Adams. time, some said, the story was for real.
collection, turn
60 ET CONTACT FROM PERU 91 SUBSCRIBE TODAY! to page 94
UFO sightings and videos from Peru by Subscribe with UFO MATRIX and never and answer
the Proyecto UFO team. miss an issue or reported sighting! the simple
question.
64 MCMINNVILLE 92 READERS SIGHTINGS
The most famous UFO photo-case in UFO A round-up of sightings by the readers of GOOD LUCK
history is looked at by Kal Korff. UFO MATRIX.

UFO MATRIX 05
AD Moore & Ladan Ratcliffe 16/1/11 09:42 Page 1
Interview with girgio tsoukalos 16/1/11
Not Made By
Human
An Interview with
Hands:
Giorgio Tsoukalos
So what’s new in the ancient world?
Perhaps that question can best be answered
by Giorgio Tsoukalos, the official spokesman
in the English-speaking world for legendary
ancient astronauts scholar, Erich von Däniken.
Tsoukalos is also the editor of Legendary
Times, the official publication of the
Archaeology, Astronautics and SETI Research
organisation, which is a revamped version of
the earlier Ancient Astronauts Society. The
Ancient Astronauts Society was founded in
1973 by a von Däniken enthusiast named Gene
Phillips and when Phillips decided to retire in
1997, Tsoukalos was tapped by von Däniken to
replace him.
“So basically,” Tsoukalos said, “I was asked to
run the English-speaking department because I
was living in the States at that time. I’ve always
been interested in this and I’ve been a friend of
Erich’s since my early teens.”
Tsoukalos’ duties also include a certain
amount of travelling and research. When this
interview was conducted, he had recently
returned from visiting a series of Native-
American reservations, where he viewed some
petroglyphs and carvings that may have a
bearing on the ancient astronauts theory.
“Plus there are many, many museums that
are available in the United States, such as the
Natural History Museum in New York City,
which is a treasure trove for ancient astronaut-
related stuff,” Tsoukalos said. “So whenever I’m in
New York, I make sure to visit there. They’ve got
some really amazing things there that can be
found nowhere else.”
“For example,” he continued, “in the Maya
section, they have a little statue of this guy with
six wings and a pack on his chest and tubes
coming out. He’s wearing a skullcap and a suit.
32 UFO MATRIX
10:29 Page 1
by Sean Casteel
It looks very interesting, from a modern entered the realm of “make-believe”.
perspective, and seems to clearly reference a “Because the modern scientists of that planet
type of astronaut.” will then say, ‘There is no way that all those
But Tsoukalos warns that the ancient ancient texts about these gods descending
astronauts depicted in ancient carvings, like the from the sky have ever been true. They were all
six-winged figure above, are not to be confused just a fantasy.’ So what Erich is saying is that the
with the literal presence of God. In fact, while ancient astronauts theory transcends the whole
von Däniken is the primary mover and shaker in idea of ‘GOD’ because God is much bigger than
the ancient astronauts community, he himself could be put inside a book or God would not
prays to what he believes is a higher God than need a vehicle to travel from point A to point B.”
that depicted in our religious texts. Therefore, according to Tsoukalos, God in the
“One of the main arguments for the ancient Old Testament was anything but God.
astronauts theory,” Tsoukalos cautioned, “is that “He was a misunderstood flesh-and-blood
whoever or whatever was described, for extraterrestrial,” Tsoukalos said. “And, if you
example, in the Old Testament, wasn’t subscribe to ancient aliens, it does not have to
necessarily ‘GOD’, as in the Force of the Universe diminish your belief in God. Quite the contrary,
or the Force of Creation or the Spirit of because it means that creation was way more
Everything or whatever you want to call it, but a magnificent than we’re seeing right now.”
misunderstood flesh-and-blood extraterrestrial.” Tsoukalos also does not believe that early
“It would be the same thing if a thousand mankind was any less intelligent than we are
years from now, we Earthlings arrive on a
distant planet and we encounter seemingly
intelligent life. Let’s say that that life is,
technologically speaking, still primitive. What
would we do? Would we just stand back and
then depart again? Or would we actually
meddle, would we interfere with their
development? And the answer is clear. Of
course we will meddle with their development
and we will interfere with their culture, because
we know that we would have instant god-like
status with them because we’re descending
from the sky. We’re coming down in flying
vehicles which they would then describe as
‘flying chariots’ and things like that.”
Tsoukalos said that we should imagine fast-
forwarding five thousand years into the future Giorgio Tsoukalos
of the primitive species, when our visit will have
Interview with girgio tsoukalos 16/1/11
today, but that they simply lacked a frame of
reference for understanding alien technology.
He quoted science-fiction writer Arthur C.
Clarke’s famous saying, “Any sufficiently
advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic.”
“And that pretty much sums up the whole
ancient astronauts theory,” Tsoukalos added.
Von Däniken’s newest book is called Twilight
of the Gods (New Page Books, 2010) and among
the many subjects the new book tackles is the
mystery of what’s to come in 2012, when the
Mayan calendar comes to an end. Tsoukalos, for
one, is not buying into the doomsday scenarios
being put forth by many.
“To the great majority of people who have to
sell books, to them, the world is coming to an
end. The Judgement Day will be here, the End
of Days, the Apocalypse. All this crazy, crazy
stuff.”
Tsoukalos is quick to point out that nowhere
do the Mayans themselves say that the world
will come to an end, but that there will, instead,
come the beginning of another cycle of time.
He explained, “Just like at the end of the year,
every December 31st, your office calendar runs
out. What do you do? You go out to the store
and you buy yourself another calendar.”
Tsoukalos said that von Däniken also poses
this question: Everyone only talks about the end
of the Mayan calendar. Why does nobody talk
about the beginning of the calendar?
“Interestingly enough,” Tsoukalos explained,
“scholars have determined when the beginning
was and that is the 11th of August, 3114 BC. So
10:29 Page 2
AN INTERVIEW WITH GIORGIO TSOUKALOS
Puma Punku Overview
we’d all have to agree that the Maya didn’t exist producer, and a new series on NBC called The
back then, as far as we’re told by mainstream Event. When this interview was conducted, a
science. According to a Mayan text from the new movie called Skyline was soon to be
‘Chilam Balam’, from the Book of the Jaguar released that featured people being sucked up
Priests, written after the Spanish conquests, the into UFOs.
opening date of the calendar is when the “It looks quite spectacular,” he said. “So all this
highway to the stars descended from the sky, entertainment stuff serves as some type of
bringing with it a host of gods who taught reconditioning, of telling the public, ‘Hey, not
mankind various disciplines. only are we not alone, but we’ve never been
“If and when they return, they will rectify alone and we’ll never be alone and they’ve
everything that was once wrong,” Tsoukalos always been here. Get used to it.’ And the whole
said. “So will extraterrestrials come back on the idea that, if the extraterrestrials show up, that
21st of December, 2012? I speak for Erich on this, they will eat us or annihilate us, is complete
and I’m quoting him right now: ‘Absolutely not.’ nonsense, in my opinion. Because, why wait so
Nothing will happen in 2012, actually. It might long? Why not do it while we were still hunting
be an astronomical alignment, but the only with bows and arrows? There’s this whole
thing we have to worry about is one huge doom and gloom scenario, in my opinion, and
hangover on December 22nd. That’s about it.”
Another topic that is frequently kicked
around is UFO Disclosure, about which
Tsoukalos, again, has definite opinions. He said
that at a speaking engagement at the 2010
Bay Area UFO Expo, in San Jose, California, he
was repeatedly asked when he felt Disclosure
would happen.
“I can tell you right now,” he said, “that
Disclosure, as such, will never happen in one
press conference. Disclosure is happening right
now. We’re in the middle of it. Disclosure is
happening all around us.”
To bolster his argument, Tsoukalos made
reference to the many alien and UFO-related
television programs in the United States,
including the History Channel programme, Erich von Daniken
Ancient Aliens, for which he is a consulting
UFO MATRIX 33
Interview with girgio tsoukalos 16/1/11
Puma Punku Overview
also in Erich’s opinion – you can keep a society
captive by instilling fear and I personally want
to go as far away as possible from that. And also
Erich. Erich looks forward to giving lectures in
2016 and 2020. 2012 is just a date.”
Von Däniken also looks forward to a future
free of the Apocalypse described in the Bible
and believes that prophecy, by definition, does
not exist.
“The reason why prophets were prophets at
the time is because they had knowledge that
was given to them by extraterrestrials,”
Tsoukalos said. “But that does not make them
prophets in the sense of what we know today,
of what we think a prophet is. There is no way
of predicting the future. The future is unwritten.
Even according to the Bible, we have free will.
One argument renders the other useless.”
Meanwhile, von Däniken does lend some
credence to modern-day beliefs about UFOs
and alien abduction.
“Erich definitely says those things are
happening right now,” Tsoukalos affirmed.
“There’s no question about that. But he also
thinks that some of the abductions are done by
human beings. It’s our people who are
abducting people and putting them in a lab or
something like that. But that does not negate
the fact that UFOs, extraterrestrial UFOs, are
visiting Earth and abducting people. Even if
34 UFO MATRIX
10:29 Page 3
ninety-nine percent of all abductions are
manmade, well, that one percent is still
extraterrestrial and that’s all we need. So, yes,
Erich definitely thinks that the modern-day UFO
abduction phenomenon does take place.”
In fact, in the mid-1990s, von Däniken was
among the first to invite the late abduction
researcher, Dr. John Mack, of Harvard University,
to speak at one of his conferences, so that Mack
would have a public forum to discuss his
findings regarding abduction.
“Dr. Mack, at the time, was one of the first
university professors who, in public, maintained
that the abduction phenomenon is, in fact, real,”
Tsoukalos said. “For any professor to do that,
especially one from Harvard, is a big deal. I really
don’t think that Mack fell on his head. I really
think he had some tangible evidence.”
Tsoukalos recalled spending time with Mack
at a 1996 ancient astronauts conference in
Berne, Switzerland.
“He was great and he was completely,
quote, unquote, ‘on our side’. That’s become
more the norm now, but, back in the Nineties,
that was completely out of the norm; it was not
normal for bona fide university professors to
side with us.”
The conversation turned again to von
Däniken’s new book, Twilight of the Gods, which
covers some interesting new ground.
“This is book number twenty-nine that Erich’s
written,” Tsoukalos said. “So, obviously, there is
some rehashing of old material. But, in this
book, for example, he goes into great detail
about a site in South America called Puma
Punku. Puma Punku is a place on the border of
Peru and Bolivia, right next to Lake Titicaca, in
the highlands of the Andes. It’s also right next
to a site called Tiwanaku (also spelled as
Tiahuanaco – Editor). Every day, dozens of
tourists go to Tiwanaku and photograph the
site and walk around. They huff and puff when
they walk around because we’re at thirteen
thousand feet up in the air, so the air is very
rarified up there.”
But what many of those tourists don’t know,
and the guides won’t talk about, is that only a
hundred and fifty yards away is the little known
site called Puma Punku, a place that “completely
defies logic,” according to Tsoukalos.
“You have this entire field of ruins of gigantic
stones,” Tsoukalos said, “all of which are cut out
of granite and diorite. We have formations there
that we still today would have difficulties
recreating. And that’s not me talking. That’s
actually a stonecutter by the name of Roger
Hopkins, who has his stone quarry in Palm
Springs, California.”
After viewing photos of Puma Punku, shown
to him by Tsoukalos, Hopkins said that you
Interview with girgio tsoukalos 16/1/11
could not pay him enough to tackle the near
impossible task of building anything remotely
similar to the ancient site.
Tsoukalos asked, “And if a stonemason says
that to me, who am I going to listen to? A
professor who says all of this was done with
chicken bones and string? Or am I going to
listen to a real-time, real-life stonemason,
stonecutter, who tells me this would be
extremely difficult for us to replicate today?”
“God bless the professors,” he continued. “But
in some ways, they just have to concede,
because neither Erich nor I are saying, for
example, that our ancestors did not know how
to cut stone. Of course they knew how to cut
stone. In fact, they were very good at it – when
they cut limestone or soft, porous stone. I don’t
care about those stonecutting things. But what
I care about is how on Earth did they cut diorite,
andesite and dolerite? That is the question.”
In order to cut granite (and the other rocks
mentioned) in this day and age, a diamond-
tipped saw is required. It can’t be done with
obsidian or the aforementioned chicken bones
or any kind of bronze tools. Given that we
moderns couldn’t easily recreate it, what was the
ultimate purpose of the Puma Punku stones?
“Puma Punku is certainly not an altar,”
Tsoukalos replied. “Yes, our ancestors did build
things that were intended for worship, for
rituals. But those places usually contained or
featured some type of hieroglyphics or glyphs
or some wonderful ornamentation that’s been
carved into the rock, of faces or flowers or
anything. Just beautiful carvings.”
“Puma Punku, on the other hand, is one
hundred percent anonymous. Not a single
glyph has been found, not a single carved
flower or carved ornamentation. The blocks that
we find there, some of them up to eighty-five
tons, are all very technical in nature. You’ve got
a whole lot of little inside boxes that have been
cut out. Every block at Puma Punku looks as if it
was the counterpart to another block. Like a
female piece and a male piece fitting together
and vice versa. Another interesting thing is also
the fact that it’s as if only master stonemasons
were allowed to work there, because nowhere
do you find any mistakes. Nowhere is there a
place where a guy slipped while he was cutting
a stone. It’s all perfect.”
All of this leads Tsoukalos to conclude that
Puma Punku is, by far, the most “inexplicable”
site in the world.
“I would even venture to say,” he declared,
“that Puma Punku is the only place in the world
that was not built by human hands, that that
10:29 Page 4
AN INTERVIEW WITH GIORGIO TSOUKALOS
place was, in fact, built by extraterrestrials using
some type of machinery.”
He went on, “Of course, nobody knows the
purpose, but I theorise that Puma Punku might
have been one of the base camps of the
extraterrestrials. It was basically their place. All
the mythologies and legends surrounding
Puma Punku and Lake Titicaca say the location
has been one of the ‘navels’ of the world. ‘Navels
of the world’ was a term used in ancient times
when they wanted to signify where life
originated. For example, in ancient Greece,
Delphi is considered the navel of the world.
Why? Because the Greeks think that life
originated at Delphi.”
“And how did life originate? From outer
space. All those different origin stories are
always the same, that some type of silver egg
appeared or a cosmic egg arrived from the
deep, dark nothingness. From then on,
humankind thrived, out of nowhere. The idea is
that our ancestors’ genetic make-up was
tampered with by extraterrestrials and thus we
were made, quote, unquote, ‘humans.’ And they
used Puma Punku as a base camp to explore
the rest of the world, as we know they did.
Puma Punku is pretty central for all of South
America, so it’s a perfect point from which to
travel all over.”
For von Däniken and Tsoukalos, Puma Punku
is a kind of diamond hidden in plain sight.
Many volumes have been written about nearby
Tiwanaku and Lake Titicaca, but there are only a
handful of scholarly references to Puma Punku,
usually a paragraph or two presented in
passing. Twilight of the Gods devotes a large
chunk of its more than two hundred pages to
examining the site, but most questions about
Puma Punku Slab
it remain
unanswered.
When this
interview was
conducted,
Tsoukalos was in
the midst of
shooting the
second season
of Ancient Aliens
for the History
Channel. The
season will
eventually number ten one-hour episodes and
Tsoukalos is enthusiastic about the project.
“We’re very busy running around and trying
to get everything done,” he said. “It’s very
exciting. How many times have we been part of
a television programme and then it was
completely botched up and we were made to
look like idiots? And this time, with Ancient
Aliens, they’re actually taking this stuff seriously.
Being a consulting producer to the show, if I
have a suggestion or if I have something to
say, guess what? They’re actually listening. It’s
totally awesome.”
[To learn more about Erich von Däniken,
Giorgio Tsoukalos and the Archaeology,
Astronautics and SETI Research Association,
visit www.legendarytimes.com
Sean Casteel is a freelance journalist and a
Contributing Editor to the American UFO
Magazine. He is also the author of the books
UFOs, Prophecy and the End of Time, Signs and
Symbols of the Second Coming and The
Excluded Books of the Bible. To read more of his
work, visit his website at
www.seancasteel.com]
UFO MATRIX 35
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