ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 username time status OKay people.

Time for #ukedchat - 'Why are some subjects considered more academic or worthy than others?' - initial views please I guess it is tradition...the big subjects like maths, sciences and Eng Lit have been around longer #ukedchat #ukedchat because of preconceived ideas based on how they were taught #ukedchat because they are more difficult. Looking at alps data demonstrates this very clearly. #ukedchat social skills, collaboration, independence are essential for learning and life too #ukedchat RT @tas_sasso: Please watch and RT my video on the teacher's pensions. http://t.co/BRPJ7Eh Or http://t.co/12E58D2 for iphone users. #j30 #ukedchat #nut

bevevans22 mattpearson bellaale ChrisMartinE1 bellaale SheliBB

20:00 20:01 20:01 20:01 20:01 20:02

xPunzx

20:02

PivotalEllie

@GaryH2UK #ukedchat Yes, this is very true. Do we need a whole 20:02 rethink of what subjects are taught in schools today? Over to @bevevans22 for #ukedchat this evening, discussing why 20:02 some subjects are considered more worthy than others. Perhaps it is a legacy, if you need to use your hands more than your 20:02 mind, is that subject is seen as less academic? #ukedchat 20:02 because of trad, boring way they are (sometimes) taught #ukedchat #ukedchat I always found it annoying that my brother's history a level was considered' better' than art - anyone feel the same? #ukedchat we prepare students for future (unknown) jobs by teaching them subjects we taught 50+ years ago. RT @bevevans22: OKay people. Time for #ukedchat - 'Why are some subjects considered more academic or worthy than others?' initial views please any subject can have a high-end, so-called "academic" aspect depends on approach #ukedchat Please remember to include #ukedchat within your tweet, so your comments can be captured within the archive. Parental pressure e.g...these were important in my day and they are now #ukedchat #ukedchat traditional != boring

ukedchat

deerwood bellaale

bevevans22 GaryH2UK

20:02 20:02

Creativeedu bellaale ukedchat GaryAveryICT ChrisMartinE1

20:02 20:03 20:03 20:03 20:03

Creativeedu

PivotalEllie

@bevevans22 I did a psychology degree rather than english as I 20:03 thought it would be more useful - but less respected! #ukedchat @deerwood #ukedchat interesting idea about using hands. But really most people learn well with hands on activities - are they less 20:04 academic

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 Please also unprotect your tweets for the #ukedchat session, otherwise your comments will not be read by everyone :-( @PivotalEllie @ but if future jobs are unknown what do you rethink? Will these unknown jobs not require accurate communication? #ukedchat Depends on view of education; 4me it's about self-realisation, 4govt is OECD rankings. There4 I view subjects of = worth, govt not #ukedchat All subjects are academic, but reading, writing and maths skills are most important? Right? #ukedchat my school considered economics and business as subjects for less able. Wish I'd done them now! #ukedchat 'cause from ridiculously early age r emphasis of success is reading, writing and maths scores. No surprise considering the testing #ukedchat

ukedchat

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ChrisMartinE1

20:04

mattbuxton10 mr_chadwick Creativeedu

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MrMalcontent

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mattpearson bellaale

PivotalEllie

we need to be a bit careful about these unknown jobs, the 'shift 20:05 happens' video many base this had shaky basis #ukedchat 20:05 relevance more important than "academic"? #ukedchat @ChrisMartinE1 #ukedchat For sure Communication is the one thing that we will always need, but methods of communication are 20:05 changing RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat we prepare students for future 20:05 (unknown) jobs by teaching them subjects we taught 50+ years ago. As a geographer my school felt it more important to flood students with GCSE equivalents like ASDAN. I lost 24 hours of teaching! 20:05 #ukedchat 20:05 @SheliBB Agreed, teaching facts is important as well. #ukedchat #ukedchat what do we mean by academic exactly? Difficult? 20:05 Respected? All subjects require critical thinking @PivotalEllie speaking and writing are pretty much constants 20:06 whatever the medium. #ukedchat Apologies for my lack of tweets during #ukedchat - computer just 20:06 decided to crash on me. back to the discussion... Students with ASDAN / PSHCE quals can with English and Maths fill league table criteria. So other subjects suffer! #ukedchat #ukedchat they are considered more worthy because of inherited perceptions of effective learning @mikeatedji #ukedchat Traditional? of course some new jobs will emerge, but they will need literate, numerate people good with technology and above all creative #ukedchat

Stephen_Logan

JOHNSAYERS ChrisMartinE1 mikeatedji ChrisMartinE1

bevevans22

JOHNSAYERS mrjshaw PivotalEllie

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mattpearson

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mattpearson

if you created a new course in social media, to help students exploit 20:07 twitter for their jobs, what status would it have #ukedchat Page 2 of 37

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 pitco_cobil teachingofsci GaryH2UK pivotalpaul RT @briankotts: 10 Ways Wikipedia Has Changed Education 20:07 http://bit.ly/iYVDv3 #edchat #ukedchat #eduswe #edtech @bellaale i'd agree, they're methods and techniques. add ICT? 20:07 #ukedchat @PivotalEllie #ukedchat perhaps we need to be thinking beyond 20:07 just subjects 20:07 #ukedchat Speaking and listening first, then reading and writing #ukedchat Some subjects are fundamental to learning - research methods, language, maths and the ability to analyse info enables 20:07 learning I think in primary schools we have no choice but to deem maths and English more worthy, because that's what success is measured 20:07 by #ukedchat reading, writing & maths are not subjects - they can all be taught through other areas *ducks thrown objects* #ukedchat And, granted, those three are essential life skills in our society #ukedchat We are tested so heavily on reading and math here in the US that those subjects get the most emphasis #ukedchat #ukedchat In many ways the differences between subjects is arbitrary and so it pointless to deem some more important than others @CreativeEdu Yes, business was the 'doss' for those who didn't care about school #ukedchat #ukedchat You can't access all areas of learning without being either numerate or literate-that's not a perception. moderation of 14 students can mean a whole year group can get the equivalent of BB at GCSE so for HT why not!? Mickey taking over #ukedchat RT @teachingofsci: @bellaale i'd agree, they're methods and techniques. add ICT? #ukedchat > yup: even #gove talked about that recently! #ukedchat what are we talking about? #ukedchat also depends on individual & what they want out of life. If they use the subject they study then that's the most academic for them oh..having re-read I mean you are academic.... if you excel at other things than 3'rs #ukedchat

carolrainbow

SheliBB

bellaale MrMalcontent grouchyteacher

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ePaceonline misshbond ChrisMartinE1

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JOHNSAYERS

20:08

bellaale sh_hanes

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Calie77 GaryAveryICT mrjshaw

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Stephen_Logan

bevevans22

20:08 #ukedchat real question is what is the purpose of education ;) RT @mattpearson: of course some new jobs will emerge, but they will need literate, numerate people good with technology and 20:08 above all creative #ukedchat #ukedchat IMO a subject like art or music takes real skill where as others that are more fact based can be learnt. Is that the wrong 20:08 view?

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @PivotalEllie #ukedchat "traditional". Just wondering what we meant by academic...Maybe an old way of differentiating value, 20:09 narrowly 20:09 @bevevans22 that was about to be my point too! #ukedchat RT @GaryH2UK: @PivotalEllie #ukedchat perhaps we need to be 20:09 thinking beyond just subjects - agreed! I was one of the last cohorts of teachers allowed to do PGCE who has a degree in a non-national curriculum subject (Philosophy) 20:09 #ukedchat @carolrainbow #ukedchat most of those ' skills' are subject 20:09 independent @bevevans22 #ukedchat the 'academic' subjects therefore are the ones that rely on learning not skill... I'm not saying that's right 20:09 though oooh #ukedchat time; that hour when I talk about education rather 20:09 than planning my actual educational lessons for tomorrow! @SheliBB but why is success measured in that way? Many 20:09 successful business people admit to being unacademic #ukedchat @bevevans22 depends what level you're taking them too I think... 20:09 #ukedchat @bevevans22 is that because in some subjects you are normally learrning *about* them in schools, not often *doing* them (inc sci) 20:09 #ukedchat Can we overcome a perceived imbalance by offering a broad curriculum rather than asking students to select a few subjects? 20:09 #ukedchat RT @carolrainbow: #ukedchat Some subjects are fundamental to learning - research methods, language, maths and the ability to 20:09 analyse info enables learning @sh_hanes why some subjects are valued more highly and 20:09 considered more academic than others #ukedchat RT @mrjshaw: #ukedchat real question is what is the purpose of 20:09 education ;) RT @mrjshaw: #ukedchat real question is what is the purpose of 20:09 education ;) > #purposed RT @mrjshaw: #ukedchat they are considered more worthy 20:10 because of inherited perceptions of effective learning @activekath yes, so some subjects may be thought of as more 20:10 worthy based upon student's ambition or uni choice? #ukedchat @dughall I had to do MA in Modern History to get onto the PGCE Secondary History course at Durham after my Philosophy degree. 20:10 #ukedchat Would love to join in #ukedchat - perfect time to discuss the merits 20:10 of physical education & sport, but in an hotel with dodgy internet

mikeatedji GaryAveryICT bevevans22

dughall GaryH2UK

ChemAngel

xPunzx

bevevans22 Creativeedu

teachingofsci

OSC_IB

ChrisMartinE1 mattpearson ePaceonline bellaale ePaceonline

OSC_IB

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @SheliBB #ukedchat a very valid point! Pupils might begin to see it like that from a young age as it is those that 'count'. @GaryH2UK #ukedchat A more cross curricular all inclusive approach? @mattpearson thank you! I teach History so a very interesting discussion #ukedchat @bevevans22 #ukedchat I thought my art A level was more precious as anyone could learn essay techn but creating was higher >no value tho I believe a diverse curriculum is vital & each child has different strengths, but in the end its employers that must value them. #ukedchat RT @bellaale: reading, writing & maths are not subjects - they can all be taught through other areas *ducks thrown objects* #ukedchat - yes! learning HOW to learn = more fundamental than any one "subject" #ukedchat @misshbond yes but doesn't that seem strange now? GCSE IT was tarred with the same brush too.. #ukedchat More often than not schools are bottling out of difficult subjects for bankers with no job prospects! #ukedchat SOME teachers put less effort into planning and teaching a PE lesson then other subjects.If teachers dont respect it, how can kids?#ukedchat

ePaceonline PivotalEllie sh_hanes

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Baggiepr

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ICTmagic

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bevevans22 bellaale Creativeedu JOHNSAYERS

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tas_sasso

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niall_m In2schools

#ukedchat there are subjects considered to have more importance 20:11 but how can you change peoples thoughts on them? @CreativeEdu Brilliant info on #ukedchat at http://t.co/6oUgPvl, 20:11 thanks! Doesn't help that teachers often view 'their subjects' in competition 20:11 with others. #ebacc debate has perpetuated this!! #ukedchat @dajbelshaw I knew you were a fellow philosopher, Doug. Very 20:11 relevant degree for success in teaching, I think ;-) #ukedchat #ukedchat some sbjects seen as more academic because they are? eg I did history as my major at uni - much harder than the politcs 20:11 and socy! RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more fundamental than any 20:11 one "subject" #ukedchat @bellaale quite agree with that, but Nick Gibb (schools minister) 20:11 has dismissed this as 'poorly defined learning skills' #ukedchat @bevevans22 that's what primary's should be taking notice of success does not always equal great maths and English skills 20:11 #ukedchat @pipkinzoo #ukedchat But you can still achieve and learn stuff whether you can do it outside school doesnt' define it as academic 20:11 or not Page 5 of 37

mattbuxton10

dughall

xPunzx Spongelab

mattpearson

SheliBB

PivotalEllie

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @bevevans22 If it is in wrong with you. It's a shame English etc are all about remembering rather than teaching useful skills #ukedchat @bevevans22 Yes. I have often found myself 'defending' my Philosophy degree :-( #ukedchat #ukedchat doesnt academic also entail ability to make connctions across disciplines? Also its a certain habit of mind, disposition to learn @PivotalEllie traditionally, I think that had been the perception #ukedchat @bevevans22 Advice for drama teachers from @pivotalpaul playing the careers department at their own game http://bit.ly/kOsnEm #ukedchat

misshbond dughall

20:11 20:12

mikeatedji deerwood

20:12 20:12

PivotalEllie

20:12

Creativeedu

raiseatree

RT @Spongelab: RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more 20:12 fundamental than any one "subject" #ukedchat <I completely agree Also engagement in subjects is fundamental2learning RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more fundamental than any one "subject" 20:12 #ukedchat @CreativeEdu a balance I think? #ukedchat u need vigorous subjects that r respected but u'll fail if u dont enjoy them? #ukedchat I think that great minds have the ability to see the big picture, to question constructively and to think regardless of academia. RT @mattpearson: Nick Gibb (schools minister) has dismissed this as 'poorly defined learning skills' #ukedchat > that's a plus, for me! ;) RT @In2schools: @CreativeEdu Brilliant info on #ukedchat at http://t.co/6oUgPvl, thanks! <glad you found it helpful! Previous GT didn't play system of easy qualifications and got sack new HT has and apparently school will get best results ever!? #ukedchat RT @carolrainbow: RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more fundamental than any one "subject" #ukedchat I agree! Then one can learn whatever they want! @dughall Me too. It's the opposite of the narrow, economyfocused, reactionary 'curriculum' being espoused by current govt. #ukedchat @dughall Did you feel like your degree was less worthy? @creativeedu suggested that her degree is less respected #ukedchat @mattbuxton10 #ukedchat I think this is natural as teachers are often competing for budgets and time! @SheliBB we try, creative curriculum in primary really addressing this i think, if done well all subjects are equally important. #ukedchat @ICTmagic but surely it is not down to employers to select what skills/subjects a student learns? #ukedchat

xPunzx

20:12

ePaceonline

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bellaale Creativeedu

20:12 20:12

JOHNSAYERS

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grahamstanley

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dajbelshaw

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bevevans22 PivotalEllie

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GaryAveryICT OSC_IB

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 xPunzx and by harder i mean more writing, reading, anaylsing, higher level 20:12 thinking etc! #ukedchat Is it more important for kids to choose subjects they enjoy or those 20:12 that will be respected in the workplace? #ukedchat RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more fundamental than any one "subject" #ukedchat I agree! Then one can learn whatever they 20:12 want! Absolutely - but that's the million dollar question RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more fundamental than any one "subject" 20:12 #ukedchat RT @mattbuxton10: Doesn't help that teachers often view 'their subjects' in competition with others. #ebacc debate has 20:12 perpetuated this!! #ukedchat @bevevans22 @dughall - mine = wrongly less respected as it's psyc 20:13 AND wrongly more respected because it's oxbridge! #ukedchat @bellaale yes but many schools and teachers will fall in line with dominant ideology, which is uber trad at the moment #ukedchat RT @ICTmagic: I believe a diverse curriculum is vital & each child has different strengths, but in the end its employers that must value them. #ukedchat RT @Langnut: #ukedchat Employers see some subjects as essential, others desirable & rest as peripheral & curriculum reflects that. Does it? However, we operate in a system (both GB and NI), where they are considered the epitome of academia...Hateful

Creativeedu

carolrainbow

raiseatree

teachingofsci

Creativeedu

mattpearson

20:13

Stephen_Logan

20:13

bevevans22 MrMalcontent

20:13 20:13

2donna tas_sasso

@dughall #ukedchat Me too. My degree is in anthropology. Not 20:13 exactly relevant to the primary curriculum! @CreativeEdu they need to do a wide range to maximise 20:13 opportunities when the're in their late teens. #ukedchat RT @OSC_IB: @ICTmagic but surely it is not down to employers to select what skills/subjects a student learns? #ukedchat chldn shd b helped to achieve their potential-they cld b th next Vanessa Mae / David Bellamy.We shd stop emphasising core subjects #ukedchat @dajbelshaw Yup #ukedchat @GaryAveryICT Me too-emphasis on 'core' subjects puts so many at a disadvantage.With creative curriculum, many children can shine #ukedchat

Stephen_Logan

20:13

SheliBB dughall

20:13 20:13

SheliBB

20:14

xPunzx GaryH2UK

#ukedchat snobbery at uni, my history dept would slag others off 20:14 geog colouring in, philosophy bs etc etc! perpetuates the myth? @PivotalEllie #ukedchat so much focus on facts for exams drives 20:14 out creativity. Creativity great revenue earner for UK

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @dughall Ironic though that the NI curriculum puts such an emphasis on 'thinking skills' now! Thanks to @SirKenRobinson 20:14 #ukedchat My house at uni:- I did 30 hrs of lecture/lab time my scientist room 20:14 mate 28 hrs. Other 3 did History and did 6 hrs! A week! #ukedchat As pupils go through state system they select a narrowing curriculum, if we present a broader curric more subjects can be 20:14 valued? #ukedchat RT @isis_sister: New Scottish cfe curriculum is making things 20:14 slightly better on this front #ukedchat - tell us more... @xPunzx I think that's really true. Better to have a clutch of good results than a whole bunch of fails in the 'right subjects? #ukedchat RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more fundamental than any one "subject" #ukedchat > agree! @dughall #ukedchat I did a Primary PGCE with a Media Studies Grad, I'm a Comp Sci Grad - still not sure if it's "national curriculum" RT @mattpearson yes but many schools fall in line with dominant ideology, which is uber trad at the moment #ukedchat > KILL THE #Ebacc! @mattpearson if anything i'd say teachers tend to resist that kind of imposed attitude. maybe i just have awkward colleagues? #ukedchat some excellent points made on #ukedchat so far! Very interesting topic tonight. Trying to keep up to date whilst harvard referencing. New Scottish cfe curriculum is making things slightly better on this front #ukedchat @bevevans22 #ukedchat Agree - mine too. Though I didn't feel that way at the time. @dughall #ukedchat. think how I feel - mine is in Inclusion studies...(should I really admit that in public???) #ukedchat @2donna Maybe so, but IMO, does *not* make you any worse a teacher! #ukedchat @mikeatedji can you gain that from all subjects or just some? #ukedchat @CreativeEdu Very much so. I did both of those and the teaching was awful because the assumption was we were all the thickos #ukedchat #ukedchat Yep there is a snobbery element with history RT @Stephen_Logan: #ukedchat Very interesting topic tonight. Trying 2 keep up whilst harvard referencing. > oops! you dropped a name... ;) Degrees in my view can be done in 2 yrs rather than 3 ease the debt situation of students #ukedchat

MrMalcontent

JOHNSAYERS

deerwood

bevevans22

Creativeedu ePaceonline

20:14 20:14

jms429

20:14

bellaale

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teachingofsci

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Stephen_Logan isis_sister PivotalEllie bevevans22 dughall Creativeedu

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misshbond johnmayo

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bellaale JOHNSAYERS

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @dughall my husband did classics and the philosophy is the only bit he found useful since. He uses it every day... #ukedchat @OSC_IB No, that is broadly down to Gov (but should be teachers/students). We're talking about value, rather than what is taught. #ukedchat #ukedchat I had to take o level geography - it was compulsory but wasn't necessary for any further choices. @bevevans22 Yes! Be proud! If you feel shy to admit it in public, there is something wrong! #ukedchat @deerwood We should give the children a bit more choice about what and how they want to learn. Enthuse them, not switch them off #ukedchat what are the key changes in the new scottish curric? (scuse my ignorance0 @isis_sister #ukedchat @GaryH2UK #ukedchat Yes, I think you are absolutely right. There is always the 'need' to test and measure everyone against each other Does Education ONLY prepare people for the world of work? Must every subject be relevent? #ukedchat

Creativeedu

20:15

ICTmagic RachelOrr dughall

20:15 20:15 20:15

SheliBB Creativeedu

20:16 20:16

PivotalEllie jms429

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dughall

mattpearson

@CreativeEdu I did an A Level in Classics and although I don't use it 20:16 daily, I don't regret it. It is about disciplined learning. #ukedchat @teachingofsci some do, but e.g. many adopted the literacy hour exactly as prescribed and did not deviate, even though they could 20:16 #ukedchat @2donna @dughall but aren't the skills you gained in studying for 20:16 yr degree just as valid throughout schooling? #ukedchat RT @bevevans22: Join me at 8pm for tonight's #ukedchat on why some subjects are valued more than others. What can we do about 20:16 it? See you later to discuss RT @Langnut: #ukedchat Surely no hierarchy of subjects as 20:16 intellectual pursuits...only their usefulness to the common good @ePaceonline Agreed; every subject has same core skills underlying them, is just content & demonstration of them which 20:16 differs #ukedchat Absolutely --> RT @bellaale: learning HOW to learn = more 20:16 fundamental than any one "subject" #ukedchat @deerwood #ukedchat It would be nice to think so but some 20:16 people will always think of certain subjects as 'better' @Creativeedu At ks2 important that kids are literate with good basic Maths and have good experiences from wide curriculum 20:16 #ukedchat RT @dughall: @CreativeEdu I did an A Level in Classics and although I don't use it daily, I don't regret it. It is about disciplined learning. 20:17 #ukedchat

OSC_IB

muckyartist

mikeatedji

mattbuxton10 Arakwai

bevevans22

Baggiepr

victoryoak

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @JOHNSAYERS History and English were considered 'good degree subjects' by my school but undergrads had no respect for them! 20:17 #ukedchat @CreativeEdu #ukedchat All subjects in my view...Disposition to learn inherent in beckham's ability to bend football...same with 20:17 engineers @dughall disciplined learning is important, and there is *some* sense in what Gove argues on subjects, but it's very deeply hidden 20:17 #ukedchat @mattpearson maybe secondary, as already constrained because 20:17 of exams, struggle against pedagogy demands more? #ukedchat Curriculum For Excellence focuses on experiences of learners and 20:17 evidence collected from all curricular areas #ukedchat @OSC_IB @RachelOrr As I said to @CreativeEdu I believe it isn't so 20:17 much the subject, but learning how to learn. #ukedchat RT @SheliBB: @deerwood We should give the children a bit more choice about what and how they want to learn. Enthuse them, not 20:17 switch them off #ukedchat @jms429 #ukedchat I should hope that is not the case, nor should 20:17 it be. But maybe that is the place of the 'non-acacemic' subject? @bevevans22 better? Better for them, their aptitude, their future 20:17 plans, or peer pressure? #ukedchat Interesting to hear how protective people are over their 'specialist 20:17 subject' #ukedchat @dughall I am proud. Honest guv :) Some people still ask me what it is though... not a problem you might have with maths etc. 20:17 #ukedchat RT @dughall: @CreativeEdu I did an A Level in Classics and although I don't use it daily, I don't regret it. It is about disciplined learning. 20:17 #ukedchat Important subject are statizised at the moment. The put a value on 20:18 the child and the school. #ukedchat 20:18 @SheliBB oh yes, absolutely agree. #ukedchat I think 4 years might be taking it a bit far though! @dughall Tom 20:18 deeply regrets not being advised to do e.g. business #ukedchat American Studies 4 me - multi-discipline: Lit, Media, History, Politics 20:18 - set me up well 4 teaching Media / English / Life #ukedchat 20:18 @jms429 Know what you mean! #ukedchat @GaryAveryICT & enquiry approach lets children practise many life skills AND they do lots of maths and English without knowing it 20:18 #ukedchat @calie77 #ukedchat Good idea. Do you have any idea how they 20:18 would do this? And is it necessary to measure the growth? Page 10 of 37

Creativeedu

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teachingofsci

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dughall

bellaale

PivotalEllie deerwood mr_chadwick

bevevans22

bellaale raff31 deerwood

Creativeedu

jamesmichie dughall

SheliBB

PivotalEllie

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 bellaale if we all (more or less) agree, why can't we just...make it happen? 20:18 #ukedchat So in english I work with cdt and rme on a project and it may be the 20:18 techy teacher who ends up with the literacy outcome #ukedchat 20:18 I'm miles behind... #ukedchat @dughall @rachelorr @creativeedu Exactly what I was trying to say 20:18 but much better put, sir! #ukedchat @GaryAveryICT doing maths&English through X-curricular approach is more natural & less threatening for those who find it 20:19 difficult #ukedchat 20:19 @dughall come on, keep up! #ukedchat @dughall maybe we should start putting participants on #ukedchat 20:19 into streams or setting? *jokes* @CreativeEdu #ukedchat I think it is very important to develop 20:19 minds and talents, encouraging pupils to maximise their potential. 20:19 Confidence and self- esteem #ukedchat @deerwood by the traditionalists I suppose. My brother has loads of qualifications. Thought of as clever. can't change a plug 20:19 #ukedchat @dughall if we had been proper 'customers' paying fully for our 20:19 degrees I think we'd have thought more carefully... #ukedchat #ukedchat If our ultimate goal was learning to be good citizens/live 20:19 sustainably I wonder what we would value, consider academic? @mr_chadwick #ukedchat But that is so important & a key part of being a teacher in a secondary school - enthusiasm about your 20:19 subject #ukedchat instilling the passion for learning, curiosity and always wanting more - success breeds effort and effort leads to success! @mr_chadwick my specialist subject is English Lit. I'm not protective of it all, not sure it should be a sep subject at all #ukedchat my view is we need to set up curriculum and teaching so as many kids as possible have a profound sense of succeeding in something #ukedchat @SheliBB yes, but many schoolsl don't allow the Eng & Maths to link to Cross curricular, treat as stand alone.. A mistake I think #ukedchat #ukedchat - EDUCARE - Latin for drawing out and moving on - we are not filling empty vessels!!! At school I would have enjoyed business studies more, but economics was the academic subject. I do tease my b.s. hubby about it #ukedchat @creativeEdu may be pushing it in tweet form! Basic one curriculum from 3-16 with no barrier to pupils progressing #ukedchat Page 11 of 37

isis_sister dughall OSC_IB

SheliBB deerwood mattpearson

ePaceonline raff31

bevevans22

Creativeedu

mikeatedji

PivotalEllie

RachelOrr

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mattpearson

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mattpearson

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GaryAveryICT RachelOrr

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13loki

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isis_sister

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @Creativeedu: I guess for different people different subjects hold the key to learning to learn? @mikeatedji #ukedchat welcome to my world! @dughall #ukedchat @deerwood Started late. Kids hassling me... #ukedchat RT @SheliBB: @GaryAveryICT doing maths&English through Xcurricular approach is more natural & less threatening for those who find it difficult #ukedchat I guess for different people different subjects hold the key to learning to learn? @mikeatedji #ukedchat #ukedchat is 20 minutes in. Why are some subjects considered more worthy than others? Interesting thoughts so far...keep it going folks :)

mikeatedji Creativeedu dughall

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bellaale Creativeedu

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bevevans22

20:20

bellaale RachelOrr

carolrainbow johnmayo

RT @mattpearson: @dughall maybe we should start putting 20:20 participants on #ukedchat into streams or setting? *jokes* > lol 20:20 #ukedchat you teach best what you most need to learn! RT @JOHNSAYERS: Degrees in my view can be done in 2 yrs rather than 3 ... #ukedchat - I thought it took a year to get them working ;20:20 ) #ukedchat there should be more cross curricular teaching of 20:21 subjects as life is cross curricular @PivotalEllie @creativeedu Doesn't matter at all IMO. I do think an 20:21 interest/passion for the subject is also essential #ukedchat Can you learn to learn via ANY subject? Is that what we're aiming 20:21 for? #ukedchat Rose review groups subjects into faculty areas and took away all the individual identity..a mistake ot the shape of things to come 20:21 #ukedchat #ukedchat who considers them new important?sometimes am sure 20:21 it's the parents speaking through the chn's mouths! System creates top-down approach re collective, reality is that every single kid is their own story. Should be about dev passion! 20:21 #ukedchat @PivotalEllie and, surely, enthusiasm for students learning it? 20:21 #ukedchat @SheliBB but kids are enthusiastic; no need to enthuse if they have some responsibility for the curriculum #ukedchat @dughall @creativeedu #ukedchat You learn lots about learning & working thro different subjects. Does it matter if you don't use it daily? #ukedchat a curriculum based on transferable skills @calie77 #ukedchat It would be great to have the freedom to experiment more though, wouldn't it?

dughall Creativeedu

GaryAveryICT

missmclachlan

mattbuxton10 deerwood

richardmillwood

20:21

PivotalEllie RachelOrr PivotalEllie

20:21 20:22 20:22

mr_chadwick

Don't get me wrong, it's great. That's why we should give children 20:22 the broadest curriculum possible to find their strengths #ukedchat Page 12 of 37

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 #ukedchat I think there are certain skills / competencies that shld 20:22 be taught in all subjects/lessons to reinforce their value/worth. @mattpearson I believe all kids are good at at least one thing what is that thing and how do we ensure the kids succeed at it? 20:22 #ukedchat #ukedchat Heard that news maths curriculum may be arithmetic based on 4 ops and problem solving - back to 3 Rs Def learn to learn from any subject! #ukedchat @calie77 Could be many ways, but probably none perfect. Teacher assessed/course work/practicals have pros/cons with written exams. #ukedchat RT @johnmayo: #ukedchat there should be more cross curricular teaching of subjects as life is cross curricular

jamesmichie

TimothyRaybould

RachelOrr isis_sister

20:22 20:22

ICTmagic bellaale

20:22 20:22

mberry

#ukedchat - I did a maths degree, specialising in statistics, and loved 20:22 teaching maths. Kinda wish I'd changed to CompSci in retrospect. @GaryAveryICT Definitely! It's hard for some schools to take the 20:22 risk to integrate subjects in case standards drop I think #ukedchat 20:22 @mattbuxton10 second that entirely #ukedchat RT @bevevans22: #ukedchat is 20 minutes in. Why are some subjects considered more worthy than others? Interesting thoughts 20:22 so far...keep it going folks :) @deerwood #ukedchat Precisely. Over-enthusiasm for everything to do with your subject to motivate your learners and get them 20:22 enthused too RT @mattpearson:my view-we need to set up curric & teaching so as many kids as poss have profound sense of succeeding in 20:22 something #ukedchat #ukedchat such as literacy, numeracy, creative thinking, 20:23 collaboration, research... and more. Responsibility of all. RT @mattpearson: my view is we need to set up curriculum and teaching so as many kids as possible have a profound sense of 20:23 succeeding in something #ukedchat no need to focus on academic side of Maths - cos we will have until 20:23 18 to teach them it all! #ukedchat Is anyone here an advocate of marginalising less academic 20:23 subjects? It seems quite one sided... #ukedchat Talking about Learning to Learn, does anybody in state schools 20:23 teaching learning or knowledge theory? #ukedchat @RachelOrr A problem solving based curriculum sounds wonderful 20:23 #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould a very pertinent question, we don't find that thing in enough kids and their experience of school is not good 20:24 #ukedchat @CreativeEdu #ukedchat yes learning to learn is vital component of thinking...in any subject indeed. some more utilitarian than 20:24 others Page 13 of 37

SheliBB mattpearson

Creativeedu

PivotalEllie

bevevans22 jamesmichie

ePaceonline bellaale Creativeedu OSC_IB ChrisMartinE1

mattpearson

mikeatedji

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @jamesmichie: #ukedchat I think there are certain skills / competencies that shld be taught in all subjects/lessons to 20:24 reinforce their value/worth. 20:24 @CreativeEdu no, surely we need a broad curriculum? #ukedchat #ukedchat dont remember much of the physics/maths from uni but 20:24 do apply the problem solving approach everyday #ukedchat So, do we all think that skills in the old '3 rs' are more 20:24 important to increasing a learners potential than some subjects? @calie77 Probably varied methods for varied subjects, but this will give different levels of qualifications still. #ukedchat 20:24 #Ihavenoanswer @RachelOrr #ukedchat So how would you structure a 'transferable 20:24 skills' curriculum? Do topic based work more? I like this as an idea RT @johnmayo: #ukedchat there should be more cross curricular 20:24 teaching of subjects as life is cross curricular <-- Agreed @deerwood not narrowing curric the problem, it's narrowing to centralised principles when shd be narrowing 2 individual interests 20:24 #ukedchat #ukedchat UK only place in europe where hist can be dropped at 14 - why? if we changed exams we could keep broader focus at GCSE? @TimothyRaybould @mattpearson What evidence do you have for that? #ukedchat @PivotalEllie Don't get me wrong, it's great. Why we should give children the broadest curriculum possible to find their strengths #ukedchat @Stephen_Logan Thanks. Think curriculum shld be broad but learners/parents can feel confident that cert. skills will be taught. #ukedchat @richardmillwood big agree with second part, but not ALL children enthusiastic about school - some would rather stay home #ukedchat RT @CreativeEdu: Is anyone here an advocate of marginalising less academic subjects? It seems quite one sided... #ukedchat - Is #gove about? @bevevans22 #ukedchat No. I think the 3Rs are important but each student has potential in different areas & we must differentiate & stretch @OSC_IB I guess that just depends on what we're aiming to achieve? #ukedchat @CreativeEdu not in favour but see why some schools, for some pupils do #ukedchat

Stephen_Logan OSC_IB

GaryH2UK

bevevans22

ICTmagic

PivotalEllie

misshbond

mattbuxton10

xPunzx ChrisMartinE1

20:24 20:24

mr_chadwick

20:25

jamesmichie

20:25

SheliBB

20:25

bevevans22

20:25

PivotalEllie Creativeedu xPunzx

20:25 20:25 20:25

mattpearson

@GaryH2UK the content you learn is just like the meat you throw 20:25 to the guard-dog; the skills are the important thing #ukedchat Page 14 of 37

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @mattpearson: my view is we need to set up curriculum and teaching so as many kids as possible have a profound sense of 20:25 succeeding in something #ukedchat RT @Creativeedu: Is anyone here an advocate of marginalising less academic subjects? It seems quite one sided... #ukedchat > #gove is 20:25 out... @CreativeEdu I reckon it's better to have a balance of subjects suited to the individual - different pathways perhaps? #ukedchat RT @jamesmichie Think curriculum shld be broad but learners/parents can feel confident that cert. skills will be taught. #ukedchat #ukedchat facts, skills, mental models, problem solving and attitudes all important @dughall - I have a degree in drama. Presumably wouldnt be accepted now? #ukedchat

GaryH2UK

bellaale

TimothyRaybould

20:25

bevevans22 richardmillwood jackieschneider

20:26 20:26 20:26

johnmayo mikeatedji

GaryAveryICT Creativeedu isis_sister

in Ireland we would have a broad range of subjects examinable at 20:26 both levels #ukedchat which I think is a god thing #ukedchat Otherwise what are we doing all this learning for? It's 20:26 surely more than just the individual? RT @TimothyRaybould: some subjects are probably considered more worthy than others based on the salary #ukedchat --sad but 20:26 true 20:26 ha ha! bless #gove. the little idiot.. @bevevans22 #ukedchat Key Scottish curricular changes reflect a lot of the ideas here check 20:26 them out http://bit.ly/c4Dc8V #ukedchat some subjects are probably considered more worthy than others 20:26 based on the salary you can get in the respective career #ukedchat #ukedchat worth depends on what the ultimate vision for 20:26 education is...what are the values? Sustainable living...citizenship? RT @CreativeEdu: What's the most important thing we can teach our learners? #ukedchat <-- How to learn (critically) for themselves. RT @jackieschneider @dughall - I have a degree in drama. Presumably wouldnt be accepted now? #ukedchat > dunno: most MPs are great actors... #ukedchat we're teaching children today skills for jobs that haven't even been invented or created - how do we know what they will need? #ukedchat kids are learning machines; learning to learn makes the machine sing

TimothyRaybould

mikeatedji

jamesmichie

20:27

bellaale

20:27

RachelOrr richardmillwood

20:27 20:27

dughall

@jackieschneider I couldn't say, but unless it was a first, you can 20:27 consider yourself bottom of the pile ;-) (Joking!) #ukedchat

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @TimothyRaybould that's a really interesting take on it... though I'm not sure there are many high paid jobs in English #ukedchat @Creativeedu V late. Whats the topic #ukedchat I'm in favour of marginalising poor quality teaching and teachers. #ukedchat #ukedchat We need to nurture questioning & thinking brains that can adapt. Most of what this generation will need to know not invented yet. RT @mattpearso the content you learn is just like the meat you throw to the guard-dog; the skills are the important thing #ukedchat<agree What's the most important thing we can teach our learners? #ukedchat with the motivation created by personalising curric, can then go deeper & more "academic"... #ukedchat

Creativeedu JfB57 ChrisMartinE1

20:27 20:27 20:27

ePaceonline

20:27

GaryH2UK Creativeedu bellaale

20:27 20:27 20:27

PivotalEllie

@RachelOrr #ukedchat Ok, yes. You would clearly have to shift 20:27 contexts but the focus would be on the acquisition of skills RT @Creativeedu: What's the most important thing we can teach 20:28 our learners? #ukedchat > cheesy, maybe, but, "joy of learning"? What are chn going to benefit more from? Learning dates/quotes or learning how to question/engage/wonder/think for themselves? 20:28 #ukedchat @ePaceonline #ukedchat Yes, totally agree. @rachelorr & I have 20:28 just been saying the same. RT @ePaceonline: #ukedchat We need to nurture questioning & thinking brains that can adapt. Most of what this generation will 20:28 need to know not invented yet. 20:28 What is #ukedchat topic - can't work it out from tweets I'm seeing! RT @jackieschneider: @dughall - I have a degree in drama. Presumably wouldnt be accepted now? #ukedchat > dunno: most 20:28 MPs are fab actors... RT @isis_sister: Key Scottish curricular changes reflect a lot of the ideas here check them out http://bit.ly/c4Dc8V #ukedchat @ChrisMartinE1 we need evidence? I thought this was a chat, not an interrogation *smiles sweetly* #ukedchat @isis_sister thanks for that great link, I will digest it fully tomorrow #ukedchat @CreativeEdu to be *good* learners - by modeling, supporting, giving feedback, setting up situations for them to 'fail better' #ukedchat @CreativeEdu to turn up on time! #ukedchat @johnmayo But do pupils get the option to drop certain subjects as they do here? #ukedchat #justwondering

bellaale

misshbond PivotalEllie

TheHeadsOffice jackieschneider

bellaale

Creativeedu mattpearson Creativeedu

20:28 20:28 20:28

teachingofsci deerwood bevevans22

20:28 20:28 20:28

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @bevevans22 But thats where the schools let him down by not 20:29 recognising his academic strengths in other areas #ukedchat most important thing we can teach our learners is how and where 20:29 to find knowledge efficiently and effectively. #ukedchat @bevevans22 @johnmayo is 'dropping' subjects good? why not give a broad curric but allow pupils to specialise in some subjects? 20:29 #ukedchat #ukedchat @jackieschneider Drama is the finest of all subjects. but 20:29 rarely accepted by the unenlightened. If Beckett isn't 'academic'.... RT @misshbond: What are chn going to benefit more from? Learning dates/quotes or learning how to 20:29 question/engage/wonder/think for themselves? #ukedchat @ePaceonline #ukedchat couldn't agree more, we'd be naive if we 20:29 thought we can teach them all they need to know RT ePaceonline #ukedchat We need to nurture questioning & 20:29 thinking brains that can adapt - BIG agree @jackieschneider yet arguably degrees such as drama, art, philosophy etc prepare you far better to teach esp primary? 20:29 #ukedchat 20:29 @CreativeEdu #ukedchat How to learn for themselves? @Creativeedu @timothyraybould You don't think there are well 20:29 paid jobs which require excllent use of English? #ukedchat @misshbond Yes - skills based curriculum - including social and life skills. So important. #ukedchat get rid of seperate subjects RT @TimothyRaybould: most imp thing we can teach learners: how & where 2 find knowledge efficiently & effectively #ukedchat > & selectively? RT @teachingofsci: @CreativeEdu to be *good* learners - by modeling, supporting, giving feedback, setting up situations for them to 'fail better' #ukedchat the next most important thing is what to do with the knowledge once the learners have found it #ukedchat

GaryAveryICT

TimothyRaybould

OSC_IB

pivotalpaul

PivotalEllie

ElKel99 SheliBB

Creativeedu PivotalEllie

ChrisMartinE1

SheliBB

20:30

bellaale

20:30

Creativeedu TimothyRaybould

20:30 20:30

TheHeadsOffice

RT @isis_sister: Key Scottish curricular changes reflect a lot of the 20:30 ideas here check them out http://bit.ly/c4Dc8V #ukedchat @deerwood I read that tongue in cheek at first, but had to haul an 20:30 employee into a meeting re lateness AGAIN today so....#ukedchat RT @misshbond:What r chn going to benefit more from? Learning dates/quotes or how to question/engage/wonder/think for 20:30 themselves? #ukedchat

Creativeedu

bevevans22

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @johnmayo: @bevevans22 they can drop about 1/3 most do 9/10 for Junior Cert and 7 for Leaving Cert (4 compulsory ) 20:30 #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould finding facts? or thinking about them, using 20:30 them in methods, how to learn new methods/ #ukedchat @PivotalEllie Absolutely, its also perpetuated at Y9 options time by parental perceptions of subjects, courses & qualifications 20:30 #ukedchat RT @richardmillwood: #ukedchat kids are learning machines; 20:30 learning to learn makes the machine sing> well put! @CreativeEdu good luck - we are already implementing it while still 20:30 trying to get our heads round it !! #ukedchat @CreativeEdu: What's most important thing we teach our learners? > The love of learning, it nevr finishes, more thn the 20:30 individu #ukedchat RT @bevevans22: RT @misshbond:What r chn going to benefit more from? Learning dates/quotes or how to question/engage/wonder/think for themselves? #ukedchat RT @Stephen_Logan: encourage students to be reflective, consider what they have learnt and apply it but also encourage creativity. #ukedchat or even 'separate' #ukedchat #ukedchat -Sorry I'm late - fantastic day on strike rally with London's finest teachers.

johnmayo

teachingofsci

mattbuxton10

ePaceonline isis_sister

mikeatedji

missmclachlan

20:31

bellaale SheliBB jackieschneider

20:31 20:31 20:31

Creativeedu ClaireJoanne35

why are some subjects cosidered more important than others. I 20:31 think we're wondering a little! @jackieschneider #ukedchat @jackieschneider Why are some subjects considered more 20:31 academic than others? #ukedchat encourage students to be reflective, consider what they have learnt 20:31 and apply it but also encourage creativity. #ukedchat @RachelOrr #ukedchat we don't do we - so we need to teach how 20:31 to learn! #ukedchat EYFS had strong idea of developing a knowledge & understanding of the world rather than putting subj (cont) 20:31 http://deck.ly/~O67VK 20:31 #ukedchat love of learning already there - we mustn't defeat it! @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat but dont we have to build in a value 20:31 component too. What are we thinking/learning for? RT @jackieschneider: #ukedchat -Sorry I'm late - fantastic day on 20:32 strike rally with London's finest teachers. - no need to apolgise...

Stephen_Logan ePaceonline

RachelOrr richardmillwood

mikeatedji

bevevans22

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @CreativeEdu is it subs seen as 'academic' have strong explicit 'facts' component vs skills which are more implicit once learned? 20:32 #ukedchat @mattbuxton10 #ukedchat Parental perceptions have a big 20:32 influence & they often refer to their own schooling. @mattpearson I felt I was very close in creating that curriculum 20:32 until Gove #ukedchat RT @CreativeEdu: we seem agreed that learning to learn is the key 20:32 surely that can be done via any subject? #ukedchat @shelibb Hoorah. Maybe not get rid of subjects, maybe just 20:32 interlink *much* more? #ukedchat @pivotalpaul @jackieschneider I agree that there is are big benefits 20:32 to students studying drama! V. underrated subject. #ukedchat @mattbuxton10 parent perception and misunderstanding of their children's strengths and abilities impacts choices #ukedchat RT @ePaceonline: #ukedchat We need to nurture questioning & thinking brains that can adapt. Most of what this generation will need to know not invented yet. we seem agreed that learning to learn is the key - surely that can be done via any subject? #ukedchat @GaryAveryICT You're quite right. Sometimes a bit of common sense and a head full of ideas will take you a long way though #ukedchat RT @TimothyRaybould: the next most important thing is what to do with the knowledge once the learners have found it #ukedchat @deerwood anyway, this guy was lucky, I sacked the one who failed to show up for work last week... #ukedchat #ukedchat Conversations with Business and physics undergraduates demonstrate why some subjects are valued more highly than others. I think subject divisions are a nonsense. It is just a convention but we accept it as gospel truth #ukedchat @Stephen_Logan I think we do this a lot in primary but not sure if it is as 'high profile' in secondary settings #ukedchat I'm a History teacher, but who am I to say that History is more important than art/business/RE etc if a kid loves art/business/RE? #ukedchat #ukedchat learning to learn is crucial but we have to build in a value component surely. Education fwithout values has proved dangerous @kalinski1970 genuine question though, how far has Gove stymied this approach? #ukedchat @RachelOrr IMHO EYFS have got it right! #ukedchat #ukedchat It is hard to move forwards in terms of developing curriculum, when so many people are looking back to what is traditional. Page 19 of 37

teachingofsci PivotalEllie kalinski1970

jamesmichie misshbond

hrogerson

TimothyRaybould

20:32

Quiggers81 Creativeedu

20:32 20:32

bevevans22

20:32

TheHeadsOffice Creativeedu

20:32 20:33

ChrisMartinE1 jackieschneider bevevans22

20:33 20:33 20:33

mattbuxton10

20:33

mikeatedji mattpearson TheHeadsOffice

20:33 20:33 20:33

PivotalEllie

20:33

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @CreativeEdu learning to learn can happen anywhere, but will be 20:34 most effective in the subjects that young people enjoy #ukedchat @carolrainbow if it takes a year for 20+s to get working we have a 20:34 problem... Hang on.... Bye bye British power ! #ukedchat #ukedchat Is it easier to test facts than skills? We value the 20:34 measureable because we cant measure the valuable 20:34 @PivotalEllie #ukedchat completely agree! very good point RT@bevevans22 I think we do this a lot in primary but not sure if it is as 'high profile' in secondary settings #ukedchat @jackieschneider: I think subject divisions are a nonsense. It is just a convention but we accept it as gospel truth #ukedchat Excellent! RT @mattpearson: @kalinski1970 genuine question though, how far has Gove stymied this approach? #ukedchat > surely most know he is a fool? @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat So do we need to 'teach' how to apply knowledge and/or skills? @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat Breaking the cycle is a big task. Where would you start? @mattbuxton10 A knowledgeable person who can explain and interpret sources rather someone who can draw an apple quite well #ukedchat @RachelOrr Absolutely & for once I thought we were doing it right! #ukedchat RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat ... We value the measureable because we cant measure the valuable @PivotalEllie indeed, are we teachers, or enablers of learning (or something with a better name)? #ukedchat RT @ColinGoffin: @jackieschneider: I think subject divisions are a nonsense. It is just a convention but we accept it as gospel truth #ukedchat Excellent! #ukedchat is it easier to teach facts than skills? I teach MFL, ICT, numeracy, literacy, citizenship, (etc.) every lesson... #ukedchat #ukedchat teach and learn with cohesion and connections rather than tenuous links.

TimothyRaybould

JOHNSAYERS GaryH2UK mikeatedji

Stephen_Logan

20:34

ColinGoffin

20:34

bellaale PivotalEllie PivotalEllie

20:34 20:34 20:35

ChrisMartinE1 TheHeadsOffice ukedchat TimothyRaybould

20:35 20:35 20:35 20:35

bellaale GaryH2UK bellaale RachelOrr

20:35 20:35 20:35 20:35

hrogerson

@TimothyRaybould #ukedchat I agree - I think that lots of parents 20:35 pushed their children into EBacc, not realising the possible impact. #ukedchat Is there a place any more for learning 'facts' when we 20:35 are surrounded with sources of instant information? RT @Creativeedu: @JOHNSAYERS History and English were considered 'good degree subjects' by my school but undergrads had 20:35 no respect for them! #ukedchat

ePaceonline

JOHNSAYERS

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @kalinski1970: @mattpearson I felt I was very close in creating 20:35 that curriculum until Gove #ukedchat > don't let HIM stop you. #ukedchat Important for ch to learn to care, enjoy, think, make a positive contribution, to see the bigger picture - regardless of 20:35 subject. do you mean that academic subjects are the ones where we gain 20:35 knowledge rather than skills? @teachingofsci #ukedchat RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat Is it easier to test facts than skills? We value the measureable because we cant measure the valuable @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat I think we have to play lots of different roles, at different times for different students. That's a good teacher RT @bellaale: I teach MFL, ICT, numeracy, literacy, citizenship, (etc.) every lesson... #ukedchat @CreativeEdu you gain skills 2 (eg sci). but facts easier to check in formal exams vs skills demo'ed over time eg apprenticeship #ukedchat #ukedchat @CreativeEdu what about those subjects that do both skills and content? Languages, is that somewhere in the middle? Academic?? #ukedchat Is it more important to teach pupils how to find information and access what they need to know? @GaryH2UK #ukedchat Interesting you say that: had a talk by a guy who said we teach what we can test: assessment drives the curriculum. @PivotalEllie Absolutely, "perceptions reflect own schooling"; where have we heard that before?!?!? #ukedchat RT @hrogerson: @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat I agree - I think that lots of parents pushed their children into EBacc, not realising the possible impact. @ePaceonline I think facts are overrated, facts are now at our finger tips when we want them #ukedchat @ePaceonline or even is there such a thing as a 'fact' anymore? #ukedchat @deerwood Yes, even PE. Lot to be learned about perseverance on the playing field. Much needed quality for lifelong learning. #ukedchat @teachingofsci #ukedchat I wdnt agree with that definition...e.g.philosophy? @bellaale not good at mutli-tasking but don't want to miss #ukedchat RT @mr_chadwick: RT @kalinski1970: @mattpearson I felt I was very close in creating that curriculum until Gove #ukedchat > don't let HIM stop you.

mr_chadwick

hairbyslice

Creativeedu

mikeatedji

20:35

PivotalEllie missmclachlan

20:36 20:36

teachingofsci

20:36

missmclachlan ePaceonline

20:36 20:36

hrogerson

20:36

mattbuxton10

20:36

bellaale mattpearson deerwood

20:36 20:36 20:36

jamesmichie mikeatedji Stephen_Logan

20:36 20:36 20:36

bellaale

20:36

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 misshbond Yes - skills based curriculum - including social and life skills. So important. #ukedchat get rid of separate subjects Can we teach wisdom? #ukedchat @deerwood @epaceonline Yes there are facts. #ukedchat @mattpearson Agreed, we need to be able to teach how to question - especially the media, and make decisions with thought #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould but that might be Maths or it might be hairdressing... #ukedchat @GaryH2UK #ukedchat Think its a question of habitual practice. Skills/attitudes/habits of mind are slow burners @ePaceonline: #ukedchat Is there a place any more for learning 'facts' when we are surrounded with sources of instant information? NO 1 thing that we need to teach more is presentation/communication skills. It is so hard for teenager 2 stand up infront of peers #ukedchat RT @SheliBB: misshbond Yes - skills based curriculum - including social and life skills. So important. #ukedchat get rid of separate subjects @jamesmichie phew, yes I agree and I suppose also being a team player. #ukedchat

SheliBB johnmayo ChrisMartinE1

20:36 20:37 20:37

ePaceonline Creativeedu mikeatedji

20:37 20:37 20:37

JOHNSAYERS

20:37

johnmayo

20:37

maz_blaze90 deerwood

20:37 20:37

teachingofsci bellaale

@misshbond i disagree - soem facts are still needed, to use those 20:38 skills, gauge sources. question is where to draw line. #ukedchat 20:38 RT @johnmayo: Can we teach wisdom? #ukedchat > gradually @misshbond Funnily enough most children can already do all of those things. Better to teach them what they don't know or can't 20:38 do. #ukedchat @CreativeEdu Ultimately skills but knowledge is a useful path to 20:38 learning/improving skills. #ukedchat @ChrisMartinE1 are you saying that the study of Art doesn't 20:38 require the interpretation of sources?? #ukedchat #ukedchat my 8 year old can find facts, sift data, avoid dodgy sites 20:38 etc. We don't need teachers for facts, their role is far more imp @johnmayo we can take out Shakespeare to make room for it 20:38 *ducks* #ukedchat Some subjects require key knowledge but it's knowing how to apply 20:38 this knowledge that will take a learner forward #ukedchat All indications are we're going to get a knowledge based curriculum 20:38 - we all know that's wrong - are we going to do it? #ukedchat #ukedchat how often do we include areas that employers ask for = presentation, inter and intra-personal skills - we put other things 20:38 first.

oldandrewuk jamesmichie mattbuxton10

pivotalpaul mattpearson

apieceoflisa

mr_chadwick

RachelOrr

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 Anna_Kaya TheHeadsOffice RT @Creativeedu: which is more important? knowledge or skills? 20:38 #ukedchat 20:38 What a bout teaching philosophy? #ukedchat RT @ePaceonline: #ukedchat Is there a place any more for learning 'facts' when we are surrounded with sources of instant 20:38 information? NO RT @TheHeadsOffice: @RachelOrr IMHO EYFS have got it right! 20:38 #ukedchat @johnmayo there's plenty of adults i know he need serious presentation skills, it should be taught at school I think #ukedchat which is more important? knowledge or skills? #ukedchat @deerwood Absolutely and also knowing when to take command. #ukedchat RT @ePaceonline: #ukedchat Is there place any more for learning 'facts' when we're surrounded with sources of instant info?interesting...

misshbond dughall

mattpearson Creativeedu jamesmichie

20:38 20:38 20:38

bevevans22

20:38

bevevans22

Come on then people. just about 20 minutes left to discuss why 20:39 some subjects are considered more worthy than others...#ukedchat @ePaceonline yes and the more access pupils have to info, the more exposed they are to diff interpretations #ukedchat RT @TimothyRaybould: @PivotalEllie breaking the cycle? is it possible with secretaries of state with zero experience of working in education? #ukedchat @apieceoflisa Application is key #ukedchat RT @dughall: RT @TheHeadsOffice: @RachelOrr IMHO EYFS have got it right! #ukedchat <we say that EVERY week! #ukedchat speaking and listening needs to be the first priority, before any mention of 3 rs @hrogerson @GaryH2UK Yes-I think assessment does drive the curriculum.Why is that?Accountability?That was a terrible realisation! #ukedchat

deerwood

20:39

bellaale TheHeadsOffice Creativeedu pivotalpaul

20:39 20:39 20:39 20:39

SheliBB

20:39

jackieschneider

hrogerson

#ukedchat - have the music teachers made the case that denying 20:39 kids access to music education destroys a part of the soul? @JOHNSAYERS @ePaceonline Mmm, not sure: how do you know what is on the web is true if you don't first have some general 20:39 knowledge? #ukedchat RT @TheHeadsOffice: What a bout teaching philosophy? #ukedchat 20:39 there is a series of podcasts from either RSA or LSE on this RT @mattbuxton10: I'm a History teacher, but who am I to say that History is more important than art/business/RE etc if a kid loves 20:39 art/business/RE? #ukedchat @PivotalEllie breaking the cycle? is it possible with secretaries of 20:39 state with zero experience of working in education? #ukedchat

johnmayo

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @ChrisMartinE1 are there? Or are they assumptions we make based on past experience. This is getting into Dughall's field of phil 20:39 #ukedchat RT @Anna_Kaya: RT @Creativeedu: which is more important? 20:39 knowledge or skills? #ukedchat > balance @teachingofsci Fair enough. philosophy increasingly common in 20:39 primary now P4C/critical thinking exercises...good thing #ukedchat @johnmayo You're right in that, but could also be a confidence or self image thing. They're at that 'funny' age (aren't we all) 20:39 #ukedchat @deerwood #ukedchat again an interesting thought - they are 20:39 always open to interpretation aren't they? @pivotalpaul " my 8 year old can find facts, sift data," My year 7 20:40 group couldn't do that today. #ukedchat RT @TheHeadsOffice: What about teaching philosophy? #ukedchat 20:40 Yep! Absobloominlutely! #P4C @saraloisstanley @mr_chadwick stamp our feet, stick together and fight against it 20:40 #ukedchat RT @jackieschneider: #ukedchat - have music teachers made case that denying kids access to music education destroys a part of the 20:40 soul? -no @bevevans22 @deerwood #ukedchat I had a friend got tpp marks in mechanics, put a spanner in his hand and he was useless his 20:40 words not mine @mattpearson dream still on but ebacc killed my lovely wide academic curriculum...lead foundation learning school next year 20:40 #ukedchat 20:40 @GaryH2UK Why are jobs in the future unknown? #ukedchat #ukedchat i'm going to have to quit, son shouting 'Bob the builder' 20:40 at top of voice next door. next week... 20:40 Is different knowledge more or less useful? #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat Er, no probably not. At least not on 20:40 a large scale. Start a mini-revolution in your own school. #ukedchat been teaching 19 years and since lit strat of 1998 came in - don't think I have followed a lit hour to this day - never met 20:40 needs #ukedchat Is there no longer place for knowing things in education? This chat is far too skills based. Something if a balance is required funnily enough I can hear one of my girls playing loudly too... sleeping??? @teachingofsci #ukedchat @teachingofsci no probs, just remind him that manual labour is not seen as highvalue in society, Bob the lawyer would be better #ukedchat RT @CreativeEdu: @RachelOrr IMHO EYFS have got it right! #ukedchat <we say that EVERY week! > That's because it's true every week! Page 24 of 37

deerwood bellaale

mikeatedji

bevevans22 ePaceonline hrogerson dughall SheliBB

bevevans22

victhedaddy

kalinski1970 oldandrewuk teachingofsci TheHeadsOffice

PivotalEllie

RachelOrr

ChrisMartinE1 Creativeedu

20:40 20:41

mattpearson

20:41

mr_chadwick

20:41

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 pivotalpaul TimothyRaybould sh_hanes mikeatedji @ChrisMartinE1 #ukedchat children don't need teachers to deliver 20:41 'facts' @GaryH2UK give it a year :) 20:41 aahh, i keep forgetting the hastag #ukedchat @johnmayo @bevevans22 #ukedchat I did junior cert etc but teach 20:41 in Wales now! @CreativeEdu #ukedchat surely a balance of skills, facts with 20:41 attitudes being third corner of triangle RT @jamesmichie: RT @CreativeEdu: What's the most important thing we can teach our learners? #ukedchat <-- How to learn 20:41 (critically) for themselves. @RachelOrr #ukedchat depends on your definition of a teacher. We can get facts from a book.hopefully a teacher inspires us to 20:41 learn them. #ukedchat Facts without values are dangerous, values without facts 20:42 is wooly thinking...farting in the fog RT @mikeatedji: @CreativeEdu #ukedchat surely a balance of skills, facts with attitudes being third corner of triangle <sounds 20:42 good Slightly off on a tangent . Does anyone focus on skills based xcurricular lessons? Or enrichment weeks to address 'real' needs? 20:42 #ukedchat @kalinski1970 yes I can see how the imposition of the ebacc makes 20:42 things difficult...#ukedchat I misunderstood at first and thought he'd suffered some type of 20:42 industrial injury! @victhedaddy #ukedchat RT @pivotalpaul: #ukedchat speaking and listening needs to be the 20:42 first priority, before any mention of 3 rs @hrogerson @epaceonline would love to know how many teachers 20:42 survive off Wikipedia!?!?!?! Scary isnt it! #ukedchat @PivotalEllie mini-revolutions are the way forward - one of the aims of @IncSolutionsLtd as well as me in my own school 20:42 #ukedchat RT @mr_chadwick: RT @CreativeEdu: @RachelOrr IMHO EYFS have got it right! #ukedchat <we say that EVERY week! > That's 20:42 because it's true every week! @CreativeEdu #ukedchat Described to me as the ASK triangle, all 20:42 aspects of which shd be covered with equal rigour @Langnut @misshbond @epaceonline #ukedchat But facts are easy to access now, do we need to learn them? We need to know 20:42 what to do with them @Langnut #ukedchat Are we talking about basic facts here or learning a discipline? It is very important to know things and 20:42 question. How many if us wish with hindsight we'd become a banker and had 20:43 bonuses left, right and centre ? (angry cynic) #ukedchat

Stephen_Logan

GaryH2UK mikeatedji

Creativeedu

bevevans22 mattpearson Creativeedu PivotalEllie

JOHNSAYERS

TimothyRaybould

bellaale

mikeatedji

PivotalEllie

ePaceonline

JOHNSAYERS

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 Personally I think some have gone too far with this skills thing- you 20:43 need a balance of knowledge and skills #ukedchat #ukedchat as a ucas reference writer, can I just say options may be 20:43 chosen to suit course requirements, not for the love of them! @JOHNSAYERS and how many secretaries of state, pretty sure Gove's latest speech on maths was based on wikipedia sources 20:43 #ukedchat RT @pivotalpaul: #ukedchat my 8 year old can find facts, sift data, avoid dodgy sites etc. We don't need teachers for facts, their role is 20:43 far more imp 20:43 @bevevans22 - well in that case, maybe I should! #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat Good for you. We are campaigning 20:43 on a government level so are doing our best for a maxi-revolution! RT @mattpearson: @ePaceonline I think facts are overrated, facts 20:43 are now at our finger tips when we want them #ukedchat >>Indeed @ChrisMartinE1 he was assassinated, he was murdered, in 20:43 Ethiopian calendar it wasn't 1963 .. All interpretations #ukedchat RT @JOHNSAYERS: @ePaceonline: #ukedchat Is there a place any more for learning 'facts' when we are surrounded with sources 20:43 of instant information? NO @mikeatedji #ukedchat Yes, teach what to do with the facts & how 20:44 to know if they are facts. Have mental image of fog farting now. @mooshtang skills? What are they? Isn't all education about 20:44 knowledge? #devilsadvocate #ukedchat 20:44 @PivotalEllie I'll join any positive educational revolution! #ukedchat 20:44 @JOHNSAYERS - not me #ukedchat RT @mooshtang: Personally I think some have gone too far with this skills thing- you need a balance of knowledge and skills 20:44 #ukedchat >Yep! @JOHNSAYERS You just made me laugh out loud!!! #ukedchat has 20:44 comedy value! We are in middle of Y9 "enrichment week" - life skills, project work, 20:44 etiquette, preso skills etc. Very well-received by kids #ukedchat @mr_chadwick @CreativeEdu @RachelOrr the 'new curriculum' 20:44 *was* looking good ... #ukedchat #ukedchat I think how we apply ourselves is more important than 20:44 learning facts...unless you are entering a pub quiz!!! @bevevans22 Interesting question: we want to develop "something" for post-16 to develop skills and support them in some 20:44 way. #ukedchat Page 26 of 37

mooshtang

sh_hanes

mattpearson

mikeatedji jackieschneider

PivotalEllie

ePaceonline

deerwood

TimothyRaybould

PivotalEllie deerwood TimothyRaybould jackieschneider

TheHeadsOffice bevevans22

bellaale SheliBB

ePaceonline

hrogerson

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @mooshtang: Personally I think some have gone too far with this skills thing- you need a balance of knowledge and skills 20:44 #ukedchat 20:44 Sticking together will be very important #ukedchat maybe we need a #ukedchat on 'the EYFS curriculum should be applied upto age 19' discuss... as we all seem to think so? RT @ePaceonline: RT @mattpearson: @ePaceonline I think facts are overrated, facts are now at our finger tips when we want them #ukedchat >>Indeed @bevevans22 regular enrichment weeks are fab way to keep creativity no matter what the curriculum is #ukedchat @teachingofsci That's very true. Necessary facts rather than saturating brains with useless ones just for exam purposed #ukedchat RT @TimothyRaybould: @PivotalEllie I'll join any positive educational revolution! #ukedchat >Me Too! @dughall @TheHeadsOffice @saraloisstanley - think we should develop a philosophical method for dealing with ALL subjects #ukedchat RT @ePaceonline: #ukedchat I think how we apply ourselves is more important than learning facts...unless you are entering a pub quiz!!! #ukedchat we have written school reports with arts, sciences and humanities - too cross curricular to report on discrete subject headings RT @TheHeadsOffice: RT @mooshtang: Personally I think some have gone too far with this skills thing- you need a balance of knowledge and skills #ukedchat >Yep!

anhalf mr_chadwick

Creativeedu

20:44

PivotalEllie anhalf

20:44 20:44

misshbond TheHeadsOffice

20:44 20:45

jackieschneider

20:45

Creativeedu

20:45

RachelOrr

20:45

bellaale

20:45

mr_chadwick PivotalEllie

Creativeedu

anhalf

RT @SheliBB: @mr_chadwick @CreativeEdu @RachelOrr the 'new 20:45 curriculum' *was* looking good ... #ukedchat > Yes. 20:45 @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat Brilliant. You're IN! @sh_hanes so true, my psych degree insisted on a level maths, I didn't have it but wangled a place... then failed all the stats! 20:45 #ukedchat @mooshtang agreed; you can't apply the skills without the knowledge (altho can get into chicken and egg thinking here?!) 20:45 #ukedchat Some subjects e.g. science need a body of knowledge for you to hypothesise and experiment i.e. apply the knowledge #ukedchat RT @epaceonline: #ukedchat I think how we apply ourselves is more important than learning facts...unless you are entering a pub quiz!!! @ePaceonline @mattpearson But facts aren't at your fingertips when you're conversing with people. #ukedchat RT @TheHeadsOffice: RT @TimothyRaybould: @PivotalEllie I'll join any positive educational revolution! #ukedchat >Me Too! >count me in! Page 27 of 37

mooshtang

20:45

misshbond ChrisMartinE1

20:45 20:46

Creativeedu

20:46

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @anhalf We have enrichment weeks focussing on skills that are important for all citizens as they grow- most recent one was money 20:46 #ukedchat #ukedchat I get phone calls to join quiz teams due to history knowledge. Feel so used -they just want me for my brain @mooshtang science needs lots of investigation and exploration to support the knowledge tho #ukedchat @TheHeadsOffice #ukedchat Great. You're IN too! @PivotalEllie #ukedchat sorry learn geography! Learn about human interaction, physical processes, English, maths/statistical skills, empathy, history,art #ukedchat @CreativeEdu: which is more important? knowledge or skills? #ukedchat Do we really have to choose?

bevevans22

johnmayo anhalf PivotalEllie mikeatedji

20:46 20:46 20:46 20:46

JOHNSAYERS thesmoosch

20:46 20:46

pivotalpaul

@pipkinzoo #ukedchat teach them how to learn independently, 20:46 drill routines for learning and slowly let them sail @ePaceonline yes - because anything in a pub quiz can be found 20:46 out if you know how to do a google search! #ukedchat 20:46 #Ebacc = national pub quiz. Nice image #ukedchat #ukedchat Is it that some subjects develop/require a greater level of skills, and this is why they are more highly regarded? RT @TheHeadsOffice RT @TimothyRaybould @PivotalEllie I'll join any positive educational revolution! #ukedchat >Me 2! >count me in! > &me! :) #ukedchat Everyone can join the revolution! I'll try and formulate a master plan! @dughall old school quizzes - excuse the pun #ukedchat I made a pasta b4, put in a load of stuff but had to know what to do with them. Facts are the same; without skills r just mush! #ukedchat

SheliBB bellaale

hrogerson

20:47

bellaale PivotalEllie johnmayo

20:47 20:47 20:47

mattbuxton10 mattpearson Creativeedu dughall

20:47

bevevans22

bevevans22

bellaale ChrisMartinE1

20:47 RT @bellaale: #Ebacc = national pub quiz. Nice image #ukedchat @thesmoosch I like @mikeatedji's answer... knowledge skills and 20:47 attitude... #ukedchat 20:47 @johnmayo Don't they have smart phones? ;-) #ukedchat RT @TheHeadsOffice: RT @TimothyRaybould: @PivotalEllie I'll join any positive educational revolution! #ukedchat >Me Too! Let's all 20:47 join! @dughall @johnmayo Have a friend who has travelled the world. His geographical knowledge is amazing - always phoned on quiz 20:48 night #ukedchat RT @mattpearson RT @bellaale: #Ebacc = national pub quiz. Nice image #ukedchat > could be combined with binge-drinking: we top 20:48 PISA for that @mattbuxton10 And without facts you've got nothing to make and 20:48 you go hungry. #ukedchat Page 28 of 37

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @TimothyRaybould: #ukedchat somehow I think Twitter has already allowed the start of a revolution. Most (ALL?) ideas 20:48 contrary to Gove and the DfE 20:48 @richardmillwood Now that I totally agree with :0) #ukedchat Too many to retweet so restarting: I'll join any positive educational 20:48 revolution! #ukedchat >Me Too! Let's all join! @ChrisMartinE1 the people I converse with have given up asking 20:48 me when Henry the VII was born #ukedchat I always forget!! @CreativeEdu: maybe we need a #ukedchat on 'the EYFS curriculum should be applied upto age 19' as we all seem to think 20:48 so? DEFINITELY!!! RT @ChrisMartinE1: @ePaceonline @mattpearson But facts aren't at your fingertips when you're conversing with people. #ukedchat 20:48 >Ah people! #ukedchat somehow I think Twitter has already allowed the start of 20:48 a revolution. Most (ALL?) ideas contrary to Gove and the DfE #ukedchat holocaust survivor said he was suspicious of education cos he'd seen educ'd ppl commiting heinous crimes. Values must be 20:48 attached @KShaw1977 @CreativeEdu bringing EYFS to secondary - you have 20:49 to bring the teachers with you.... good luck with that! :-) #ukedchat 20:49 @NatEdTrust can you explain the bidet effect???? #ukedchat @johnmayo we were the first year to sit the junior cert! Figure that 20:49 out History buff! #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould twitter has mobilised popular democrative opinion and amplified it in ways government does not understand 20:49 #ukedchat #ukedchat Facts important also to hook in pupils initially...obv not 20:49 drily delivered Did a lesson about multiple intelligences today! Students had to workout how I could mend my wonky wheel of smartness 20:49 #ukedchat RT @KShaw1977: @CreativeEdu: maybe we need a #ukedchat on 'the EYFS curriculum should be applied upto age 19' as we all 20:49 seem to think so? DEFINITELY!!! RT @TimothyRaybould: #ukedchat somehow I think Twitter has already allowed the start of a revolution. Most (ALL?) ideas 20:49 contrary to Gove and the DfE RT @mooshtang: Personally I think some have gone too far with this skills thing- you need a balance of knowledge and skills 20:49 #ukedchat RT @PivotalEllie: #ukedchat All can join the revolution! I'll try and formulate a master plan! > Don't forge (cont) 20:49 http://deck.ly/~HJVXB

muckyartist misshbond caroljallen

mattpearson

KShaw1977

TheHeadsOffice

TimothyRaybould

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mattpearson mikeatedji

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 TimothyRaybould PivotalEllie give me a smartphone with a data connection and I'll find any fact 20:49 with my fingertips in a conversation... #ukedchat @KShaw1977 #ukedchat Ooh, that is a good idea. That is what we 20:49 are talking about, after all. RT @Creativeedu: RT @mikeatedji: @CreativeEdu #ukedchat surely a balance of skills, facts with attitudes being third corner of 20:50 triangle <sounds good #ukedchat @ukedchat my pension info form tells me I can start 20:50 claiming at 68 - what's all the fuss about 66? @bellaale PISA scores for being on the PIS*, ' we have gone from 20:50 1st to 1st year on year' Gove could announce *earnestly*#ukedchat RT @deafdotty: @mr_chadwick Shonette Bason does great INSET on bringing the good practise FSU into KS1 #ukedchat @bevevans22 I get chucked out of pub quiz teams as I never know ANY answers! #ukedchat yes @TheHeadsOffice @mooshtang knowledge of cultural heritage and the wider world is essential #ukedchat RT @misshbond: @oldandrewuk Maybe we should be trying to make them second nature ie. teaching chn to be critical and reflective? #ukedchat @ChrisMartinE1 and without skills you have only foodstuffs but no means of preparation. You can look the recipe up on your iP*d #ukedchat I based it on smartness of words, numbers, self, people, nature, body, music, picture. Aim to make rounded but individual skills! #ukedchat I think we make a fetish of valuing subjects we think will split the wheat from the chaff #ukedchat @mattpearson so true - GOVErnment is seemingly unaware of the real thinking and thinkers in education #ukedchat @ChrisMartinE1 Completely agree, the 'fact' is that facts & knowledge r mutually reliant on each other, neither is MORE important #ukedchat @CreativeEdu I think there is going to be increasing pressure to choose 'harder' subjects from way back to yr9 due to progression #ukedchat @pipkinzoo absolutely, teachers are so much more than facts machines, they inspire, motivate, reveal #ukedchat

GaryH2UK TimothyRaybould

mattpearson

mr_chadwick Creativeedu SheliBB

20:50 20:50 20:50

bellaale

20:51

mattpearson

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JOHNSAYERS jackieschneider

20:51 20:51

TimothyRaybould

20:51

mattbuxton10

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sh_hanes pivotalpaul

20:51 20:51

ChrisMartinE1

mikeatedji

PivotalEllie

@mattpearson Well he died in 1509-I know that so could make a 20:51 reasonable guess. Facts are quite useful really. #ukedchat #ukedchat the disposition to question, find counter examples, synthesise etc are habits of mind found in any subject, all academic 20:51 quals @TheHeadsOffice #ukedchat HA! Suggest you look at what @pivotalpaul thinks about objectives & 3 part lesson 20:51 http://bit.ly/jkz0TS Page 30 of 37

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 RT @mattpearson: @ChrisMartinE1 the people I converse with have given up asking me when Henry the VII was born #ukedchat > 20:51 1491 @oldandrewuk Maybe we should be trying to make them second nature ie. teaching chn to be critical and reflective? #ukedchat RT @PivotalEllie: @TheHeadsOffice #ukedchat HA! Suggest you look at what @pivotalpaul thinks about objectives & 3 part lesson http://bit.ly/jkz0TS RT @JOHNSAYERS: I based it on smartness of words, numbers, self, people, nature, body, music, picture. Aim to make rounded but individual skills! #ukedchat @hrogerson We linked with a secondary that was really keen to find out the philosophy behind EYFS #ukedchat @ChrisMartinE1 let's not get carried away with the fact thing, facts are important, but should they dominate the curriculum? #ukedchat RT @pivotalpaul: @pipkinzoo absolutely, teachers are so much more than facts machines, they inspire, motivate, reveal #ukedchat RT @TimothyRaybould: @mattpearson so true - GOVErnment is seemingly unaware of the real thinking and thinkers in education #ukedchat Learning key facts sparks interest and makes the learning process more fluid.#ukedchat RT @misshbond: @oldandrewuk Maybe we should be trying to make them second nature ie. teaching chn to be critical and reflective? #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould It doesn't sound like a good conversation though! #ukedchat RT @PivotalEllie: @TheHeadsOffice #ukedchat HA! Suggest you look at what @pivotalpaul thinks about objectives & 3 part lesson http://bit.ly/jkz0TS RT @TimothyRaybould: @mattpearson GOVErnment is seemingly unaware of the real thinking and thinkers in education #ukedchat misGOVErned!!!! RT @mattbuxton10: I'm a History teacher, but who am I to say that History is more important than art/business/RE etc if a kid loves art/business/RE? #ukedchat Can anyone explain Newton's law of thermodynamics to me? Gove thinks it important we teach this #ukedchat @jackieschneider still wish I was a chef:) #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice

misshbond

20:51

TimothyRaybould

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bellaale TheHeadsOffice

20:52 20:52

mattpearson

20:52

PivotalEllie

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bellaale apieceoflisa

20:52 20:52

mikeatedji ChrisMartinE1

20:52 20:52

pivotalpaul

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RachelOrr

20:53

muckyartist mattpearson JOHNSAYERS

20:53 20:53 20:53

sh_hanes ePaceonline

RT @pivotalpaul: @pipkinzoo absolutely, teachers are so much 20:53 more than facts machines, they inspire, motivate, reveal #ukedchat 20:53 @ChrisMartinE1 I know!! #ukedchat RT @muckyartist: RT @ukedchat: RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat ... 20:54 We value the measurable because we cant measure the valuable

bellaale

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 bevevans22 20:54 Apologies for my short absence. computer said 'no' #ukedchat @mattpearson #ukedchat it is important to teach it with a view to applying it for the common good/sustainable living etc (soz to harp 20:54 on) did YOU ever make subject choices you now regret because of 20:54 pressure from teachers / parents. I did... #ukedchat @mattpearson #ukedchat Did he say that or did the Guardian mess 20:54 up the punctuation? RT @hrogerson: #ukedchat It is interesting that in science the students don't need to remember any of the equations anymore. 20:54 Given in the formula sheet. RT @pivotalpaul: @pipkinzoo absolutely, teachers are so much more than facts machines, they inspire, motivate, reveal #ukedchat @hrogerson reading/playing music is very highly skilled.Just don't get enough time to show it's valued,compared to maths & English #ukedchat RT @ukedchat: RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat ... We value the measureable because we cant measure the valuable #ukedchat It is interesting that in science the students don't need to remember any of the equations anymore. Given in the formula sheet. RT @bellaale: RT @muckyartist: RT @ukedchat: RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat ... We value the measurable because we cant measure the valuable rt@Creativeedu: did YOU ever make subject choices you now regret because of pressure from teachers / parents. I did... #ukedchat ME TOO Final thoughts on tonight's topic please? Why are some subjects considered more worthy than others? #ukedchat RT @mattpearson: comes up all the time in the workplace... #ukedchat @mattpearson Einsteins theory of evolution? #ukedchat 'Facts' r also so subjective, they NEED skills to be critical. History develops this, but so does/should every other subject #ukedchat Just before you all go, anyone have a good organisational tip? (preferably for iPad)? Need help to organise my time next year! #ukedchat RT @JOHNSAYERS: @jackieschneider still wish I was a chef:) #ukedchat <then be one?... @oldandrewuk #ukedchat understand what you mean but having developed minds with excellent learning pathway (cont) http://deck.ly/~VMWiY

mikeatedji Creativeedu oldandrewuk

bellaale

Stephen_Logan

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SheliBB muckyartist

20:54 20:54

hrogerson

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sh_hanes bevevans22 Creativeedu dughall

20:55 20:55 20:55 20:55

mattbuxton10

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Mallrat_uk Creativeedu

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ePaceonline

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ChrisMartinE1 ePaceonline

@mattpearson No, but they should the basis of the skills you use. 20:55 Learning to learn is hugely important but not a subject. #ukedchat #ukedchat nice to see hashtags working well this week! Sorry it 20:56 wasn't so fluid last week. Page 32 of 37

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @CreativeEdu #ukedchat Not really. But I did make choices based on which teachers I liked/wanted to learn with and those were 20:56 GOOD choices @Creativeedu I wanted to do eng, biology & hist but they said no! 20:56 Wrong mix! #ukedchat Well the latest Democrat candidate for 2012 presidency wants to bring back creation theory to science lessons. #ukedchat we have 20:56 hope yet! @dughall Einstein's theory of evolution is good, apparently he 20:56 rolled dice and created animals based on the numbers #ukedchat @GaryH2UK @RachelOrr Oh not that one. Blogged about it here: http://t.co/jQRH7Tt Myth 3 (We've also seen myth 1 tonight) 20:56 #ukedchat @CreativeEdu I make it a policy never to regret anything, everything I have done made me the person I am, and I like me! 20:56 #ukedchat @CreativeEdu Yes, was made to take French (Got a D), wanted to 20:56 take Home Ec (Would have got an A). :-/ #ukedchat @TheHeadsOffice That sounds great: I think secondary could learn 20:56 a lot from primary. But it will be a long hard slog. #ukedchat @oldandrewuk search you tube for shift happens. In 20 years time 20:57 most jobs will be jobs that havr not been invented yet #ukedchat @jamesmichie @creativeedu #ukedchat I was made to take German unstead of Home Ec. Still can't cook or sew! Can't speak G 20:57 either! @CreativeEdu I wanted to do computers but they hadn't been 20:57 invented yet #ukedchat .. That's more serious than it seems @ePaceonline #ukedchat I don't mean to be rude here, but isn't 20:57 that meaningless jargon? @bevevans22 They are easier to assess in a test situation 20:57 #ukedchat @CreativeEdu I wanted to take Drama, but "they" made me take 20:57 Art. Got a D. #ukedchat Missing #ukedchat at theatre reviewing pilgrims story. Will catch up 20:57 with overview later x RT @Langnut: #ukedchat Some of my students tell me there's an app for translating into French so why learn it at school. 20:57 ARRRRGGGHHH! RT @bevevans22 Final thoughts on 2night's topic please? Y R some subjects considered more worth(y) than others? #ukedchat > cos 20:57 money talks! 20:57 @mattpearson #ukedchat that explains Tues night ep. of Luther :-) 20:58 @deerwood It doesn't seem very serious! #ukedchat

PivotalEllie TheHeadsOffice

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oldandrewuk

Mallrat_uk

jamesmichie

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GaryH2UK

sh_hanes

deerwood oldandrewuk TheHeadsOffice TimothyRaybould jennitonic80

bevevans22

bellaale johnmayo Creativeedu

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 #ukedchat @Langnut but current employment requirements may be leading us down a path = not for common good...GDP growth not all positive @Langnut Fair point! #ukedchat @TimothyRaybould @CreativeEdu never too late to walk the boards....#ukedchat RT @deerwood: @CreativeEdu I wanted to do computers but they hadn't been invented yet #ukedchat .. That's more serious than it seems @hrogerson: #ukedchat I think that lots of parents pushed their children into EBacc, not realising the possible impact. We pick up pieces...

mikeatedji ClaireJoanne35 pivotalpaul

20:58 20:58 20:58

jamesmichie

20:58

muckyartist ePaceonline

20:58

20:58 @oldandrewuk #ukedchat could be...glad you questioned it!! I reacted *against* pressure from teachers in my subject choices, 20:58 otherwise I'd have been some kind of physicist now #ukedchat 20:58 @Mallrat_uk @creativeedu Anything?! #ukedchat @bevevans22 peer/parent preconceptions maybe? our job to try 20:58 to make ALL subs meaningful and relevant...#ukedchat #ukedchat At the end of the day sadly much of it is about reputation. Just like the stereotypes in life, they may not go 20:58 anytime soon :0( I was banned from taking art but really wanted to! 20:58 @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat @bevevans22 #ukedchat No, no subject is more worthy, but skills 20:58 are more worthy than facts. 20:59 'our kids needs' ... How drunk am I ? Sorry bout that #ukedchat RT @Creativeedu: RT @oldandrewuk: @ePaceonline #ukedchat I don't mean to be rude here, but isn't that meaningless jargon? <in 20:59 what way is that not rude ;-) if you need a comedic moment before #ukedchat comes to an end, some *wag* has modified this photo of Michael Gove visiting a 20:59 school @TimothyRaybould #ukedchat You should have taken drama - it is the best! (Ex head of drama & subject enthusiast!) bye all - v interesting, as usual...#ukedchat It's 9pm. Many thanks to @bevevans22 for hosting #ukedchat this week. The archive will be available from 9.20'ish. @janwebb21 is host nxt wk Just to say, I really enjoyed my first #ukedchat lovely! EVERY subject should include knowledge&skills, creativity&functional skills, wow-factors & rigour - none more important than next #ukedchat RT @oldandrewuk: @ePaceonline #ukedchat I don't mean to be rude here, but isn't that meaningless jargon? <in what way is that not rude ;-) Page 34 of 37

AntHeald ChrisMartinE1

anhalf

misshbond Creativeedu PivotalEllie deerwood

bellaale

mattpearson

PivotalEllie bellaale

20:59 20:59

ukedchat TimothyRaybould

20:59 20:59

mattbuxton10

20:59

Creativeedu

20:59

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 @dughall Interesting, I did a PGCE in Classics in 2002. Have since taught English, Media and ICT, plus General Studies. #ukedchat @Creativeedu @oldandrewuk @epaceonline In what way was it not meaningless jargon? #ukedchat #ukedchat thanks @bevevans22 really enjoyed that! @ePaceonline You'll be able to host #ukedchat again one day, if you like ;-) @svanstraten Now *that* is interesting! Good for you! :-) #ukedchat And that's your lot! Hope you've enjoyed tonight's #ukedchat. I have a feeling this might carry on... #ukedchat We need critical thinking to avoid repeating mistakes of past and developing solutions for the future (fairy just died) @bevevans22 #ukedchat Thanks very much for hosting tonight. Another great debate! RT @dughall: @bevevans22 Nice one! :-) #ukedchat agreed @bevevans22 Nice one! :-) #ukedchat #ukedchat Hey Bev another excellent debate, thank you very much for hosting.

svanstraten ChrisMartinE1 sh_hanes ukedchat dughall bevevans22

20:59 21:00 21:00 21:00 21:00 21:00

mikeatedji PivotalEllie RachelOrr dughall ePaceonline

21:00 21:01 21:01 21:01 21:01

Creativeedu

RT @ukedchat: @ePaceonline You'll be able to host #ukedchat 21:01 again one day, if you like ;-) <can I on a non broken hashtag day?! @bevevans22 Sincere apologies for my lateness AGAIN! Really 21:01 enjoyed the bit I joined!@bevevans22 Thanks all! #ukedchat 21:01 @bevevans22 #ukedchat - great night - thanks! @dughall Becoming a Classics teacher, or the range of subjects I've 21:01 ended up teaching? #ukedchat RT @missmclachlan: thanks all, I was the quiet one observing for my first ever #ukedchat ! - hope you enjoyed the experience @bevevans22 Thanks for hosting. It made me feel valued. :) #ukedchat @dughall There is a logic: went to teach in London State school, which had revived Latin. Media background so taught that too. #ukedchat RT @oldandrewuk Oh not that one. Blogged about it here: http://t.co/jQRH7Tt Myth 3 (We've also seen myth 1 tonight) #ukedchat<good read

TheHeadsOffice RachelOrr svanstraten

bevevans22 ICTmagic

21:02 21:02

svanstraten

21:02

GaryH2UK AntHeald

21:02

oldandrewuk

21:02 Oh well, pretty much missed main #ukedchat again - any highlights? RT @GaryH2UK: @oldandrewuk search you tube for shift happens. In 20 years time most jobs will be jobs that havr not been invented 21:02 yet #ukedchat #ukedchat Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion. Hope you 21:02 all enjoyed it. Come back next week - same time, same place...

bevevans22

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ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 sorry link to the picture is http://yfrog.com/h8zz1iqj #ukedchat 21:02 Michael Gove visits a primary school @CreativeEdu RT @ChrisMartinE1: @Creativeedu @oldandrewuk @epaceonline In what way was it not meaningless jargon? #ukedchat thanks @bevevans22 for great #ukedchat hosting despite computer repeatedly saying NO! ;-) RT @Creativeedu: RT @oldandrewuk: @ePaceonline #ukedchat I don't mean to be rude here, but isn't that meaningless jargon? <in what way is that not rude ;-) RT @ePaceonline: @oldandrewuk #ukedchat could be...glad you questioned it!! @svanstraten Both, but more the range you have ended up with. #ukedchat thanks all, I was the quiet one observing for my first ever #ukedchat ! RT @pivotalpaul: #ukedchat my 8 year old can find facts, sift data, avoid dodgy sites etc. We don't need teachers for facts, their role is far more imp RT @RachelOrr: RT @TimothyRaybould: GOVErnment is seemingly unaware of the real thinking and thinkers in education #ukedchat misGOVErned! I actually had a Y9 kid who google searched for what she wanted to be when older!!! she didn't get to the answer!?! #ukedchat @dughall Ended up becoming Head of Media & Latin. 2 of us in the UK with that combo! Moved to Berkhamsted in 2007. Indie school. #ukedchat @bevevans22 #ukedchat Thank you #ukedchat thanks for my first time, it was......perfect @missmclachlan hope you enjoyed it! jump right in next time... we don't bite #ukedchat <not hard anyway!

mattpearson

oldandrewuk Creativeedu

21:02 21:02

oldandrewuk oldandrewuk dughall missmclachlan

21:02 21:02 21:02 21:02

singletrackroad

21:03

muckyartist

21:03

mattbuxton10

21:03

svanstraten mikeatedji pivotalpaul Creativeedu TimothyRaybould Creativeedu

21:03 21:03 21:03 21:03

misshbond

missmclachlan TheHeadsOffice pivotalpaul ClaireJoanne35 ePaceonline

21:03 @bevevans22 thanks! #ukedchat enjoyed that, it was good! so @pivotalpaul you finally popped your #ukedchat now your 21:04 mates will stop bullying you... I love #ukedchat. Debate alongside some great new people to follow. Thanks very much @bevevans22. Now it's time for new Big 21:04 Bang :0) #ukedchat @CreativeEdu @bevevans22 I will do, didn't know it happens, just stumbled upon u all chatting away!! Be there next 21:04 week! Great craft idea & a giveaway! @RedTedArt http://bit.ly/lIYhWB 21:05 #ukedchat @CreativeEdu if they bully me I put @pivotalellie onto them 21:05 #ukedchat 21:06 @bevevans22 Thanks Bev! #ukedchat @CreativeEdu #ukedchat ..yes please and we would like it to be on 21:06 a day when Twitter isn't being temperamental!! Page 36 of 37

ukedchat Archive Thursday 30th June 2011 Spongelab GaryH2UK Interesting for us over in Canada too! RT @creativeedu: thanks 21:07 @bevevans22 for great #ukedchat hosting[...] 21:07 @bevevans22 #ukedchat Thank you. That went quick! @berthelemy you will find explanation of newton's law of thermodynamics by the man himself here http://bit.ly/iTvbme 21:09 #ukedchat 1/2 way thru I need recommendations for good facebook pages for teachers please let me know what pages I should like/visit #Mathchat 21:12 #ukedchat #edchat @saraloisstanley No need to apologise :-) I just thought of you immediately it was suggested philosophy should be taught :-) 21:13 #ukedchat

mattpearson

PivotalEllie

dughall

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