Commission Public Hearing

New York, NY

September 10, 2008

Commission on Prevention of WMD Proliferation and

Terrorism

[ S TA R T TA PE 1 ]

C H AI R M A N BOB G RAH AM : On behal f of mys elf a nd ou r Vic e

C h ai r m a n, Sen a tor J im Ta lent, an d th e other m emb ers o f the
c o mm i s s io n, w e we lc ome y ou to th e firs t pu b lic h ea rin g of
t h e C o m mi ssio n on t he Pr eventi on o f We apon s of M as s
D e st r u c ti on a n d T er ror is m. We a re con vene d almo st se ven-
y e ar s t o the d ay, o f t he 2001 te rr oris t at t ack o n the Unit ed
S t at e s , a nd p a rti cu lar ly on th is c ity.

T h e a f t er math of th at da y of i nf am y, A meri c ans w an ted to

k n ow h o w coul d it h ave h appene d. The join t cong re ssi onal
i n qu i r y a nd t h e i nd epe nd ent 9/ 11 C ommi ssio n were e sta blish ed
t o i n v e st igat e . Th e 9 /1 1 Comm is si on h eld i ts fi rs t p ublic
h e ar i n g i n th i s p la ce on March 3 1 st , 2003.

W h en t h e comm i ssi on re po rted t o th e Am eric a n peo pl e i n 200 4,

i t w r o t e, ‘th e gr ea tes t danger o f anot her c atast ro phi c
a t ta c k in the Uni te d S ta tes wi ll m ater iali z e if th e w orld’ s
m o st d a ng erou s te rr ori st s acqu ir e the worl d ’s mo st da ngero us
w e ap o n s .’ Co n gre ss re ce ived t hi s warn ing t hroug h the
e f fo r t s t hat S pea ke r P el osi, M in or ity Lead e r Mai no r
[ p ho n e t ic ], S e nat e Maj or ity Le ad er Rei d, a n d Min or ity Lead er
M c Co n n e ll . C o ngr es s p as sed Ho us e Reso luti o n 1, wh ich
c o nc l u d es a p r ovi si on es tablis hi ng thi s ne w comm is sio n, ou r
m a nd a t e t o bu i ld on th e work o f th e 9/ 11 i n vesti ga tio ns an d
c o mp l e t e a cr i tic al ta sk to as se ss how is o ur na ti on doing
a t p r e v en ting the p rol if eratio n of wea pons of ma ss
d e st r u c ti on a n d t er ror is m, and t o prov ide a road m ap for
g r ea t e r s ecur i ty wi th re commen da ti ons for i mprov em ent .

T h is c o mm issi o n i s dis ti nguish ed i n th at i t is n ot fo cused

o n t h e re arvi e w m ir ror . There h as not bee n an a tt ack for us
t o i n v e st igat e , a nd fo r that, we a re a ll i n credi bl y
f o rt u n a te . B u t i t giv es us an o pp ortu nity to be f orw ard
l o ok i n g , to e x ami ne th e govern me nt ’s c urre n t pol ic ies and
p r og r a m s, ide n tif y the g aps in o ur pre vent i on st ra teg y, an d
t o r e c o mm end h ow be st to close t ho se g aps. Our re por t wil l
b e i s s u ed thi s fa ll ; o ur audie nc e will be t he ne xt Pr eside nt
o f t h e Un ited Sta te s o f Americ a, a nd t he n e xt co ng res s.

O u r c o m mi ssio n is f ocu se d on n uc le ar a nd b i ologi ca l

t e rr o r i sm . W e do t hat f or a s im pl e re ason . A t er ror ist
a t ta c k us ing t hos e wea po ns wou ld b e a game chang er . The
i m pa c t on the Uni te d S ta tes’ f or ei gn p olic y , on ou r n ation al
l i fe , w ou ld b e so m ome nt ous th at i t co uld u sher in a new
w o rl d d is orde r . A nuc le ar or bi ol ogic al t e rrori st at tack
w o ul d b e so c a tas tr oph ic and s o co nseq uent i al th at ou r
g o ve r n m en t mu s t e xp lor e every op ti on, take every p rec autio n,
p u rs u e ev ery s ens ib le me ans to d et er a nd p r event i t.

T h e r e p or t ca r d i ss ued b y the 9/ 11 Com miss i on in 2 005 , a

y e ar a f te r it s fi na l r ep ort, g av e U.S. eff o rts t o sec ure
w e ap o n s o f ma s s d es tru ct ion a D. More rec e ntly, t he non-
p r of i t gr oup, Par tn ers hi ps for a S ecur e Am e rica, r ate d it as
a C. S en ator Sam N unn , one of t od ay’s wit n esses , ser ves o n
t h e b o a rd of t hat g rou p and th ei r asse ssme n t als o con clude d,
t o da y , al most sev en -ye ar s afte r th e tr agic event s of
S e pt e m b er 11, 200 l, th e threat o f a ne w ma j or te rr ori st
a t ta c k on the Uni te d S ta tes is s ti ll v ery r eal.

A nu c l e ar che m ica l or bi ologic al w eapo n in the h an ds of

t e rr o r i st s re m ain s the s ingle gr ea test thr e at to o ur natio n.
E a rl i e r t his y ear , the S ecreta ry o f De fens e , Rob er t G ates,
s t at e d , e very sen io r l ea der, w he n you’ re a s ked, wh at keeps
y o u a w a ke at n igh t? I t’ s the th ou ght of a terro ri st endin g
u p w i t h a wea p on of ma ss destr uc ti on, espe c ially n ucl ear.

O u r c o m mi ssio n ha s spe nt the l as t four -mon t hs su rv eyi ng wh at

t h e g o v er nmen t is c urr en tly do in g to p reve n t the
p r ol i f e ra tion of we apo ns of ma ss d estr ucti o n and t err orism .
W e ’v e i nt ervi e wed o ver 2 00 gov er nm ent and n on-go ve rnm ent
e x pe r t s , have hel d fou r major co mm issi on m e eting s.

W e ’v e t ra vele d to t he Sa ndia N at io nal Labo r atory i n N ew

M e xi c o , a s we l l a s Lon do n and Vi en na, to m e et wi th co unter
t e rr o r i sm and int el lig en ce off ic ia ls, and w ith t he
i n te r n a ti onal org an iza ti ons wo rk in g to ste m prol if era tion.
L a te r t hi s mo n th, w e p la n to t ra ve l to Rus s ia an d Pak istan .

O u r g o v er nmen t is n ot si tting id ly by in t h e fac e of this

t h re a t , b ut t h ere i s m or e that c an and mus t be d on e. Over
t h e l a s t seve n -ye ar s, we have se en inn ovat i on an d gre at
e f fo r t s i n th e co un ter -t errori sm a rena , th o ugh m os t o f thi s
h a s b e e n limi t ed to de fe nse an d in tell igen c e ope ra tio ns. It
n e ed s t o be e x ten de d t o includ e di plom acy a nd ot he r m eans of
s o ft p o we r.

I n t h e ar ea o f no n- pro li ferati on , the old c old w ar , p re-

g l ob a l i za tion reg im es ha ve not s uf fici entl y adap te d. And
i n de e d , i n ma n y i ns tan ce s are in d isre pair . Mea nw hil e our
e n em i e s a re n o t s it tin g idle e it he r. The 2 007 N at ion al
I n te l l i ge nce E sti ma te on Terro ri sm con clud e that A l-Q aeda
“ h as r e ge nera t ed ke y e le ments in i ts h omel a nd at ta ck
c a pa b i l it y, i n clu di ng a safe h av en in Paki s tan, op era tiona l
l i eu t e n an ts, a nd it s t op leade rs hi p.” The repor t con tinue s,
“ A l- Q a e da con t inu es to p lan hi gh i mpac t at t acks wi th
v i su a l l y dram a tic d est ru ction. ”

T o p u t it pla i nly , we ar e not sa fe . B ut w e can ac hie ve a

f a r g r e at er m e asu re of s ecurit y. So o ur c o mmiss io n i s her e
t o da y , to rev i ew th e c ur rent d an ge rs p osed by we ap ons of
m a ss d e st ruct i on, p rol if eratio n, a nd t erro r ism. O ur next
h e ar i n g , whic h wi ll be h eld on O ct ober 1 st , in Washington,
will take the next step and examine how the government can
intensify it’s efforts to prevent weapons of mass destruction and
terrorism.

W e l o o k f orwa r d t o hea ri ng fro m th e wi tnes s es an d ver y muc h

a p pr e c i at e th e ir ti me an d comm it me nt. The y each b rin g
u n iq u e ex peri e nce s and v ital p er sp ecti ves t hat w il l i nform
t h e w o r k of t h is co mmi ss ion.

F i rs t , th is m o rni ng , w e will h ea r from Ms. Carie L ema ck, w ho

m a de a gr eat c ont ri but io n to t he i nves tiga t ions of 9/ 11.
S h e i s th e fo u nde r of Th e Fami li es of Sept e mber 11 th , and she
will speak on behalf of the families who have suffered such
grievous loss.

N e xt , w e will hea r fro m Mayor Mi ch ael Bloo m berg, f oll owed by

S e na t o r S am N u nn, C o-C ha ir and C EO of the N uclea r Thr eat
I n it i a t iv e, a n d D r. Ma tt hew Bu nn , Asso ciat e Prof es sor at t he
K e nn e d y S choo l of G ove rn ment a t Ha rvar d, t o talk a bou t the
n u cl e a r t hrea t .

T h ey w i ll be f oll ow ed by Tom B ro ka w, f orme r Anch or an d

M a na g i n g Edit o r o f NBC N ightly N ew s, a nd a targe t of a
b i ol o g i ca l at t ack , and D r. Mar ga re t Ha mbur g of t he Nu clear
T h re a t In itia t ive s. T he y will t al k ab out t he bi ol ogi cal
t h re a t .

W e w i l l c oncl u de wi th a panel of s enio r la w enfo rc eme nt

o f fi c i a ls , in c lud in g J oh n Pist ol e, the Dep u ty Di re cto r of
t h e F B I , and C omm is sio ne r Ray Ke ll y an d Ch i ef Wi ll iam
B r at t o n , the h ead s of tw o of A me ri ca’s lar g est p ol ice
d e pa r t m en ts N e w Y or k a nd Los A ng el es.

W e n e e d a n un v arn is hed a ssessm en t of t he r i sk po se d b y

w e ap o n s o f ma s s d es tru ct ion, p ro li fera tion , and te rro rism,
a n d w h a t more our g ove rn ment m us t do t o co u nter th e t hreat
o f n u c l ea r an d bi ol ogi ca l terr or a ttac ks. That is ou r
m i ss i o n . We t han k you f or you r at tend ance . I n ow ca ll on
o u r V i c e- Chai r man , Sen at or Jim T al ent. Ji m .

V I CE - C H AI RMAN TAL EN T: T hank y ou , Mr. Chai r man. I

a p pr e c i at e yo u r g oo d w or k in p ul li ng t his h earin g tog ether
a n d I w an t to joi n you i n than ki ng the wit n esses w ho are
h e re t o da y to hel p us in our v er y impo rtan t miss io n. I’m
g o in g t o be b r ief , Mr. C hairma n. I do wan t to m ak e a few
o b se r v a ti ons, up fr ont , regard in g the chal l enge Am eri ca
f a ce s i n coun t eri ng th e danger o f, not jus t of t er ror ism,
b u t a l s o of w e apo ns of m ass de st ru ctio n an d prol if era tion
l i nk e d to ter r ori sm .

T h e w o r ld tod a y i s mor e interc on ne cted tha n ever b efo re. A

f e w e x a mp les o f t ha t: in 1950, c ro ss-b orde r capi ta l f lows
w e re l e ss tha n $1 00 bi ll ion; i n 20 06, they were mo re than $6
t r il l i o n. In 195 0, th er e were 2 5 mill ion i ntern at ion al
t o ur i s t a rriv a ls in th e United S ta tes; in 2 006, th ere were
8 0 0 m i l li on. And w e’r e more s ci en tifi call y and
t e ch n o l og ical l y a de pt ar ound t he w orld , an d more c omf ortab le
s h ar i n g t hat k now le dge . In 19 50 , ther e we r e 90, 00 0
s c ie n t i fi c ar t icl es pu bl ished; i n 2006 , th e re we re 90 0,000 .
A n d o f co urse , on ce th ey get p ub li shed the y ’re a va ila ble o n
t h e I n t er net, to an ybo dy .

T h e t r e nd s to w ard g lob al izatio n ar e be ing l evera ge d a gains t

u s b y o ur ene m ies , inc lu ding t he t erro rist s , who a re seeki ng
t o a c q u ir e an d us e wea po ns of ma ss des truc t ion. B efo re
9 / 11 , a ny thin g we ’v e h ea rd abo ut W MD p roli f erati on wa s
u s ua l l y e xpre s sed i n s ta te-to- st at e tr ansf e rs; t ha t
c o nt i n u es to b e a d ang er . Man y pe ople did n ’t th in k
t e rr o r i st s ha d th e int en t or t he c apab ilit y to a cq uir e and
u s e w e a po ns o f ma ss de st ructio n. We n ow k n ow th at th at is
f a ls e . T hey m ost c ert ai nly ha ve t he i nten t and gi ven the
r i gh t o pp ortu n iti es , t he y coul d ea sily dev e lop t ha t
c a pa b i l it y.

T h e s c i en tifi c de ve lop me nts of t he Ind ustr i al Re vo lut ion

f a vo r e d f irst wor ld ec on omies. Th e sc ient i fic d ev elo pment s
o f t h e In form a tio n Rev ol ution ha ve unf ortu n ately e mpo wered
t h e t e r ro rist s an d the y unders ta nd tha t.

T e d G i s ta ro, w ho is th e Nation al I ntel lige n ce Of fi cer for

T r an s n a ti onal Thr ea ts, r ecentl y sa id t hat, “We a ss ess that
A l -Q a e d a will con ti nue t o try to a cqui re a n d emp lo y
c h em i c a l, bio l ogi ca l, ra diolog ic al , or nuc l ear m at eri al in
a t ta c k s , and w oul d not h esitat e to use the m if i t dev elops
w h at i t d eems as a suf fi cient ca pa bili ty.” Our ad ver sarie s
a r e e n t re pren e uri al ; t he y make u se of the I ntern et , p orous
b o rd e r s , and e asy a cce ss to on ce c lose ly h e ld in fo rma tion.
I n o t h e r word s , t he y m ak e use of t he h allm a rks o f a
g l ob a l i ze d wo r ld.

T h e q u e st ion f or th e c om missio n, a nd u ltim a tely fo r t he ne xt

a d mi n i s tr atio n an d the c ongres s, i s ho w do we st op th em.
H o w d o we lev e rag e the A merica n en trep rene u rial sp iri t in
o u r i n t el lige n ce, d efe ns e, law e nf orce ment , and di plo matic
c o mm u n i ti es? We’ re go in g to t ry a nd a nswe r that q ues tion
w h en o u r repo r t i s iss ue d in t he f all.

T o da y , th e su b jec t of th e hear in g is, The T hreat . As the

c h ai r m a n just men ti one d, we kn ow t hat the t reat is re al. To
d o wn p l a y it i s to r isk l owerin g ou r gu ard a gains t an enemy
w h o h a s a cle a r i nt ent t o atta ck u s. To o v erpla y it would
a l so b e a mis t ake .

O u r o b j ec t to d ay is to g ive Am er ic a a clea r , unb ia sed view

o f h o w gr eat t he th rea t is and b eg in t he p u blic pr oce ss of
d e ci d i n g how t o s to p i t. To t ha t end, Mr. Chair ma n, I’m
g r at e f u l to b e ab le to w ork wi th y ou a nd t h e oth er
c o mm i s s io ners , an d to ou r witn es se s fo r ap p earin g tod ay.
A n d I y ie ld b a ck wh ate ve r rema in s of m y ti m e.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you ve ry m uch, and I als o wan t to

t h an k y ou for the g rea t leader sh ip tha t yo u have g ive n to
o u r c o m mi ssio n an d the c ontrib ut io n th at y o u’re go ing to
m a ke t o o ur u l tim at e r ep ort.

O u r firs t wi tn ess t oday, is a per son w ho ha s pla yed a

g r ea t r ol e in bri ng ing u s to w he re we are. With ou t h er an d
h e r c o l le ague s ef fo rts , there wo ul d no t ha v e bee n the 9/11
C o mm i s s io n. T her e wou ld not h av e been the inves ti gat ion;
t h er e w ou ld n o t h av e b ee n the fo cu s on our subje ct of toda y,
W e ap o n s o f Ma s s D es tru ct ion in t he Han ds o f Terr or ist s. W e
a r e f o r tu nate to ha ve wi th us to da y, t he c o -foun de r o f the
F a mi l i e s of S e pte mb er 11 th , Ms. Carie Lemack. Ms. Lemack.

M S . L E M AC K: T han k you . Good mo rn ing. Th a nk yo u ver y muc h

f o r h a v in g me her e tod ay , and th an k yo u to all o f you for
p u tt i n g o n th i s h ea rin g, for p ar ti cipa ting in th is pa nel.
I t ’s g r ea t to see s uch a n amaz in g focu s on such an im porta nt
i s su e . A nd I kno w tha t today yo u’ re g oing to he ar fr om ou r
n a ti o n ’ s most pro mi nen t electe d of fici als, leadi ng ex perts ,
a n d d e c or ated law e nfo rc ement of fi cial s, a b out t he da ngero us
t h re a t s f acin g ou r cou nt ry. A nd I ’m j ust t hankf ul th at
y o u’ v e ta ken o n t he ve ry impor ta nt res pons i bilit y to study
a n d p r e pa re, a nd en sur e that o ur n atio n is ready t o m eet
t h es e t hr eats .

A n d I a ls o wa n t t o tha nk the v er y hard -wor k ing s ta ff you

h a ve t h at put thi s all t ogethe r. They ’ve d one a f ant astic
j o b a n d I am v ery p rou d to be a ci tize n wh o is p ar t o f thi s
c o un t r y t hat’ s go in g t o do suc h an imp orta n t thi ng .

I t i s an hon or an d a priv il eg e to be h ere, th oug h it is

a n h o n o r I’d m uch r ath er not b e qu alif ied t o rec ei ve. I am
h e re t o da y, n o t a s an ex pert o n te rror ists , on w ea pon s of
m a ss d e st ruct i on, o r o n biolog ic al thr eats . Ins te ad, I’m an
e x pe r t on whe n th os e p ol icies go w rong . A n d sev en -ye ars a go
t o da y , I neve r wo ul d h av e been q ua lifi ed t o be s it tin g her e,
r i gh t n ow . A n d n ot ha vi ng suc h an exp erti s e, qu it e f rankl y,
w a s t h e t hing I w ou ld ha ve pre fe rr ed.

B u t I t ho ught I’d t ell y ou a l it tl e bi t ab o ut se ve n-y ears

a g o t o d ay . I t wa s Sep te mber 1 0 th , 2001, and it was just a
normal day for me and my family. I went to work; I was applying
to business school at the time, so I wrote one of my essays. I
w a s t r y in g to be di lig en t.

I wa s v er y th a nkf ul it w as a g or ge ous day i n Bos to n, and I

w e nt o u t to d i nne r wit h my boy fr ie nd a t th e time , and we g ot
t o s i t ou tsid e on N ewb ur y Stre et ; it w as l o vely. And I we nt
h o me t h at nig h t a nd I ca lled m y mo m, w hich was m y usu al
r i tu a l , t o te l l h er wh at had h ap pe ned that day a nd te ll he r
a b ou t t he con v ers at ion I ’d had w it h my boy f riend , pro bably
n o t s o m et hing he re all y wanted m e to s hare , but so met hing I
d i d a n y wa y.

A n d I ’ l l neve r fo rg et wh at my mo m said —act u ally, s he was

a s le e p ; I wok e he r up— an d I wa s sh ocke d be c ause we ’re late -
n i gh t p eo ple. We ’r e n ot very go od in the e arly mo rni ng. So
I ap o l o gi ze i n ad va nce , ‘cause i t is a lit t le ea rl y. But
m o m s a i d, did you c all y our si st er and con g ratul at e h er?
A n d s h e w as r e fer ri ng to the f ac t that tha t day wa s m y
s i st e r ’ s firs t da y as an adjun ct l aw p rofe s sor a t
N o rt h w e st ern U niv er sit y. And my m om w as s o prou d of my
s i st e r .

A n d o f co urse , I ha d a lr eady c al le d my sis t er to m ake fun of

h e r a n d t ell h er ho w o ld she w as , now that she w as a
p r of e s s or . A n d m om wa s very h ap py . S he h a d alw ay s t old m y
s i st e r an d me , yo u guy s will a lw ay s be sis t ers. E ven when
w e w e r e y oung and w e w ou ld fig ht , she woul d make s ure that
w h en w e m ade u p, we ha d to hug . I t’s very hard to be mad at
s o me b o d y when you h ave t o hug th em . M om s a id yo u wil l
a l wa y s be sis t ers a nd I’ m so t ha nk ful she d id, b ec aus e
h a vi n g go ne t h rou gh wh at we’ve b ee n th roug h the la st seven -
y e ar s , we are ver y luc ky to be s o clos e. A nd I’ m so
t h an k f u l to h a ve he r i n my lif e. So t hat w as my n orm al
r o ut i n e .

B u t t h e se day s , I h ave a very di ff eren t no r mal r ou tin e. I

c a n’ t c al l my mom a ny mo re, I ca n’ t as k he r ques ti ons abou t
m y r e l a ti onsh i ps, I ca n’ t ask he r abou t wo r k, I ca n’t even
a s k h e r a bout the s pee ch I had t o prep are t oday. She was a
r e al l y go od w r ite r, mu ch bette r th an m e. A nd sh e use d to
a l wa y s fi nd t y pos a nd gr ammati ca l erro rs, a nd my m om hated
t h e p a s si ve t e nse , so th at was o ne of her b ig th in gs, to
m a ke s u re any t hin g I e ve r wrot e wa s vo id o f pass iv e t ense.

A n d t h e f act t hat I ca n’ t call h er any mor e is, as yo u guy s

- - , i s quit e ob vi ous . It’s be ca use on S e ptemb er 11 th ,
2001, seven-years tomorrow, my mom got on a plane, an early
morning flight. To say, when we heard what happened on 9/11, we
hoped maybe she’d overslept and missed it; that wasn’t the case.
She got on her plane, leaving from Boston heading to Los Angeles,
C a li f o r ni a, f o r a b usi ne ss mee ti ng , an d sh e neve r cam e hom e.

S o n o w I have a n ew no rm al tha t in clud es s p eakin g at

a i rp o r t s acro s s t he co un try to t ha nk t he a i rport s cre eners
f o r t h e h ard w ork , and t he com mi tm ent and s acrif ic e t hey
m a ke , b ec ause , le t’ s f ac e it, th ei r jo b’s n ot on e pro bably
a n y o f us wan t to h ave . It’s ve ry dif ficu l t and t her e’s a
l o t a t st ake. If t hey m ess up , so mebo dy d i es.

I al s o me et t e rro ri sm vi ctims fr om aro und t he gl ob e, and

y e st e r d ay , wa s ho no red t o be p ar t of t he fi rs t e ver, Unite d
N a ti o n s S ympo s ium o n S up portin g Te rror ism V ictim s. I t was
q u it e a w onde r ful e ven t and I wa s hono red t o be th ere as a n
A m er i c a n vict i m. B ut wh en you s ee wha t el s e has h app ened
a r ou n d th e wo r ld, i t’s c lear t ha t terr oris m real ly is a
g l ob a l is sue a nd so met hi ng tha t yo u’re goi n g to be ha ving to
a d dr e s s , whet h er a nuc le ar bom b we re t o go off i n Ame rica or
a n yw h e r e else in th e w or ld, it w ou ld m ake a big di ffe rence
i n a l l of our liv es .

S a dl y , my new nor ma l a ls o requ ir es rec eivi n g pho ne ca lls

f r om t h e New Y ork C ity M edical E xa mine r’s o ffice . In fact ,
o n t h e wa y do w n h er e t od ay, we p as sed a la r ge te nt an d it
r e mi n d e d me o f wh at th e tent l oo ks lik e wh e re my m om’ s and
s o m a n y o ther s ’, un ide nt ified re ma ins, sta y . It ’s a large ,
w h it e t en t. I t’s p ret ty nonde sc ri pt, and p retty a wfu l to
t h in k t ha t th e y’r e goi ng to be u ni dent ifie d rema in s f or so
l o ng . Ri ght n ow, t her e are 1, 12 6 fami lies who l os t l oved
o n es o n 9 /11, who h ave n ever r ec ei ved any r emain s fro m the ir
l o ve d o ne s.

W e g o t ou r fi r st id ent if icatio n of mom , la s t Apr il , s o

n e ar l y a litt l e m or e t ha n five -a nd -a-h alf- y ears af ter she
w a s m u r de red. Th ey fo un d her fo ot , he r le f t foo t, co mplet e
w i th a n kl e, a n d i t was n ot bur ne d. An d th e y fou nd it ,
a c tu a l l y, in S ept em ber o f 2001 , bu t th ey w e ren’t a ble to
i d en t i f y it f o r f iv e-y ea rs. T he y were n’t a ble t o ide ntify
i t , t h e y said , be ca use i t had be en in fire s and he at, and
a l l s o r ts of o the r awf ul thing s, f or s o lo n g, th at th e DNA
w a s n o t u seab l e, un til t hey we re a ble to c o me up w ith new
t e ch n i q ue s.

T h ey t h en fou n d a no the r piece of m y mo m on top o f the

D e ut s c h e Bank bui ld ing . They fo un d on e pi e ce in A pri l of
2 0 07 a n d most rec en tly f ound a no th er c oupl e piec es th at th ey
w e re a b le to i den ti fy la st mon th . And whe n you th ink abou t
t h e f a c t that my mo m’s f oot fe ll , at G roun d Zero , in a pil e,
a n d t h a t the r est o f h er was f ou nd a c oupl e —I be li eve it’s a
c o up l e — bl ocks awa y, it ’s prett y ho rrif ic.
T h e w a y i t wa s ex pl ain ed to us i s that mom ’ s bod y sha ttere d
w h en h e r plan e hi t the b uildin g, a nd t hat t he de br is that
y o u s e e w hen y ou wa tch t he vid eo s of 9 /11, and y ou th ink i t
l o ok s l ik e gl a ss an d p ie ces of t he bui ldin g , tha t’ s a ctual ly
p i ec e s of my m om an d s o many o th er s’ b odie s . Th e imp act
s h at t e r ed the m an d the y just k ep t goin g.

T h ey s t il l fi n d b od y p ar ts at Gr ou nd Z ero a nd we ’v e b een
t o ld t o e xpec t ph on e c al ls for y ea rs, for p ieces o f m y mom
t h at m a y be f o und . So a ctuall y, r ight now , in t ha t t ent, I
k n ow f o r sure , th er e i s one pi ec e of m y mo m . It w as three
c e nt i m e te rs l o ng. It is now o nl y two cent i meter s, ‘c ause
p a rt o f i t di s sol ve d i n the id en ti fica tion proce ss . But w e
n e ed t o g et t h rou gh al l the lo gi st ics of p i cking h er up an d
b r in g i n g her h ome t o B os ton, a nd i t’s a lo t of l og ist ics s o
i t ’s g o in g to tak e som e time.

S o t h i s i s my new n orm al and i t’ s not some t hing th at I wis h

f o r a n y o ther s to e ndu re . But q ui te f rank l y, I kn ow that my
s i st e r an d I a re no t a lo ne. T he re ’s t oo m a ny ot he rs who
s h ar e t he fat e th at we ’r e goin g to hav e to go th ro ugh . An d
i t m a y so und s car y, bu t as we sa id ear lier today , and as
9 / 11 C o mm issi o n C ha ir, T om Kea n, h as s aid s o man y tim es,
w e ’r e s af er, b ut we ’re n ot saf e en ough .

A n d w h e n I lo o k b ac k o n my lif e be fore 9/1 1 , I d id n’t know

w h o O s a ma bin Lad en wa s. I di dn ’t kno w th a t he wa s g oing to
t r y t o ki ll m y mo m and n early 3, 00 0 ot hers . I d id n’t know
t h at h e h ad d e cla re d w ar on th e Un ited Sta t es. I did n’t
r e al l y kn ow m u ch ab out t he fir st W orld Tra d e Cen te r a ttack
i n 1 9 9 3 . I d i dn’ t kno w that h e wa s, “ dete r mined t o s trike
w i th i n th e Un i ted S tat es ,” as wa s told in a pres id ent ial
d a il y b ri efin g fr om Au gu st 6 th , 2001. And I didn’t know that he
had plotted before and that he had committed himself to using
airplanes as weapons.

B u t n o w I don ’ t h av e t he luxur y of tha t ig n oranc e. A nd

q u it e f ra nkly , ne it her d o any of u s, h ere, or ou r ele cted
o f fi c i a ls . A f ter s pen di ng 14- mo nt hs a long side ot her 9/11
f a mi l y me mber s , p us hin g to cre at e the 9/11 Commi ss ion , and
a f te r r ea ding its r eco mm endati on s, and aft e r urg in g c ongre ss
t o i m p l em ent t hem , I h av e a be tt er und erst a nding o f w hat
t h is m a n and h is fo llo we rs wan t to do.

A n d o n e t hing sta nd s o ut . And I s ay t his— I don’ t mea n it to

s o un d f li ppan t —bu t peo pl e call O sa ma b in L a den a ll so rts o f
n a me s . T hey c all h im ev il, th ey c all him b lasph em ous , the y
c a ll h i m all s ort s of fo ur-let te r word s. I ’ve h ea rd them
u s ed i n m y ow n fa mi ly; I can a dm it it. Bu t what I al so wa nt
t o m a k e s ure w e c al l h im is, t ra ns pare nt. Becau se th is ma n
d o es t e ll us w hat h e w an ts to do a nd h e ma k es it v ery clea r
h o w h e ’ s goin g to d o i t, and t he n he e xecu t es it .

S o me t i m es peo p le sa y t o me, we ll , it’s bee n seve n- yea rs.

W e ’r e p ro babl y ok ay ; w e haven’ t ha d an att a ck ye t. A nd al l
I ca n t hi nk o f is t he fa ct tha t it was eig h t-yea rs in
b e tw e e n t he f i rst W orl d Trade Ce nt er a ttac k and th e a ttack
t h at k i ll ed m y mo m. A nd I thi nk p art of m e is d re adi ng
e i gh t - y ea rs a f ter 9 /11 , becaus e I sort of f eel, in my mind ,
t h at ’ s wh en s o met hi ng ba d is g oi ng to happ e n, if i t d oesn’ t
h a pp e n be fore . I h ope I ’m wro ng .

S o w i t h t his i n m in d, th e obvi ou s ques tion is, w ha t d oes b in

L a de n s ay he’ s go in g t o do nex t? And shou l dn’t we be
f o cu s i n g on t h is? I m ea n ther e ar e lo ts o f thre at s o ut
t h er e , bu t if thi s man h as mad e it so clea r in t he pa st,
s h ou l d n ’t we t hin k tha t maybe he ’s goi ng t o make i t c lear
n o w? A nd whe n I th ink a bout t he a nswe r to that qu est ion,
t h er e ’ s b oth g ood n ews a nd bad n ew s.

S o w e ’ l l star t of f wit h the ba d ne ws, and i t’s t hi s. He h as

p l ed g e d t o ki l l f ou r-m il lion A me ri cans usi n g a n uc lea r bom b,
a n d h e ho pes t hat t wo- mi llion of t hose Ame r icans a re
c h il d r e n. He ’ s r ec eiv ed a Fat ra h, a r elig i ous e di ct to
s u pp o r t t his a nd he be li eves h e is rel igio u sly j us tif ied f or
t h es e t yp es o f ac ti ons . And h e’ s actu ally been do ing his
h o me w o r k. On c e w e inv ad ed Afg ha ni stan —I t h ink w e all are
a w ar e o f the r epo rt s—t ha t they f ou nd b luep r ints fo r n uclea r
b o mb s i n some of th e c av es in Af gh anis tan. So t ha t’s the
b a d n e w s.

T h e g o o d news is, w e c an stop hi m. Th is i s the pa rt I lov e

to say. Bin L ade n can ’t make nu cl ear weap o ns ma te ria ls,
h e ’d b e f orce d to s tea l them o r bu y th em. So if w e c an lo ck
h i m d o w n, if w e c an ma ke sure he h as n o ac c ess t o tho se
m a te r i a ls , he can ’t do w hat he w an ts, and t hat t o me, woul d
b e a w o nd erfu l le ga cy.

B u t w e wo n’t b e a bl e t o lock t he m down , we won’t b e a ble t o

k e ep t h es e ma t eri al s a wa y from h im if we d o n’t h av e t he
p o li t i c al wil l to d o i t. And we w on’t be a ble t o do it on
o u r o w n ; we h a ve to wo rk with ot he r na tion s . Th er e a re mo re
t h an 4 0 c ount r ies t hat h ave nu cl ea r we apon s mate ri als arou nd
t h e g l o be . A n d i n man y of tho se c ount ries , they ’r e s ecure d
o n ly w i th a c h ain -l ink f ence.

I n o u r gl obal eco no my, i f a nu cl ea r bo mb w e re to g o o ff

a n yw h e r e in t h e w or ld, t he ram if ic atio ns w o uld b e far and
w i de , b ot h in ter ms of t he los s of hum an l i fe, a nd al so in
t e rm s o f loss of st abi li ty and s ec urit y. A nd so me ma y say
i t ’s v e ry har d to d o a nd we ma y wa nt t o fo c us on o the r
t h re a t s , beca u se th ey ma y be a l it tle bit e asier t o s ecure
o u rs e l v es fro m . Bu t t he fact is , this man has s ai d t his i s
w h at h e w ants to do , a nd I, qu it e fran kly, belie ve hi m.

B u t I d on ’t n e ed to te ll you a ll o f th is; y ou al re ady know

a l l o f th is. You ’v e g on e to m an y coun trie s alre ad y, you’v e
b e en w o rk ing s o h ar d o n this i ss ue and I’m sure yo u h ave
b e en d r in king fro m the f irehou se o f in form a tion in th e las t
f e w m o n th s. S o I ’m no t going to g o in to t h e det ai ls about
t h e d e a th and des tr uct io n that a w eapo n of mass de str uctio n
w o ul d e nt ail. I th ink y ou all k no w th at; b ut ne ed les s to
s a y, i f o ne w e re to go o ff, th er e woul d no t be a r oom in
t h is c o un try, or qu ite f rankly , in the wor l d, th at co uld
h o us e a ll the fam il y m em bers t ha t woul d wa n t to sp eak out
a g ai n s t t hose act io ns.

S o w h i l e I wa n t t o mak e clear ag ai n, I am n ot an e xpe rt.

T h os e a re the one s spe ak ing la te r in t he m o rning . I have a
p e rs o n a l stak e in t he re commen da ti ons that you m ak e. I ow e
i t t o m y mom, and I ac tu ally b ro ught a pict ur e o f my mom
t o da y . T his i s J ud y R oc k [pho ne ti c]. Thi s was ta ken just a
f e w w e e ks bef o re sh e w as kille d. She was 5 0; sh e wou ld ha ve
b e en 5 1 a bout a m on th af ter Se pt em ber 11. I owe i t t o her
t o m a k e s ure t hat w hat h appene d to her nev e r hap pe ns again ,
a n d t h a t her l ega cy is o ne of pe ac e an d no t of f ur the r
d e st r u c ti on.

A n d I o we it t o m y bab y nephew s. My s iste r has ha d t wo

c h il d r e n sinc e my m om wa s kill ed , Paul and Mason . Th ey’re
w o nd e r f ul ; th e y a re ve ry proud t o be A meri c ans. I n f act,
r e ce n t l y we t o ok Pa ul on the F re ed om T rail , in B os ton , and
h e ’s n o w very pro ud to s ay no ta xa tion wit h out
r e pr e s e nt atio n . He ’s go od at it , too. An d I ow e it to hi m
a n d t o Ma son, to ma ke su re tha t— th ey w on’t get t o mee t the ir
g r an d m o th er; t her e’ s n ot hing I c an do abou t that —b ut they
n e ed t o m eet t he re st of their f am ilie s an d they n eed to
h a ve s a fe and sec ur e l iv es, to p ro sper .

S o i f t he nex t ad mi nis tr ation we re to ask m e, he re ’s what

I ’ d t e l l them . A nd ev en if th ey d on’t ask , I mi gh t s ay it
a n yw a y . Firs t of f, th e preven ti on of weap o ns of m ass
d e st r u c ti on a n d t er ror is m has to b e a top p riori ty . And
t h at ’ s no t ju s t i n wor ds , that ’s i n ac tion .

I ’ m s u r e you a ll kn ow th at in 20 04 , bo th o f the pr esi denti al

c a nd i d a te s ag r eed o n o nl y one th in g an d th a t is, t hat
w e ap o n s o f ma s s d es tru ct ion in t he han ds o f terr or ist s is
t h e g r a ve st t h rea t fac in g our na ti on. And I’m v er y g lad
t h at t h ey agr e ed on th at , but wh at was rea l ly—wh at we were
l o ok i n g f or w a s t o see a lot m or e acti on. We’ve s een some ,
b u t n o t e noug h .

S i nc e 2 00 4, w e ’ve s een N orth K or ea tes t nu c lear we apo ns,

w e ’v e s ee n mo r e c ou ntr ie s come c lo ser to h a ving th eir own
n u cl e a r p rogr a m, te nsi on s are hi gh er, and r elati on s a re
p o or e r . We’r e se ei ng co untrie s th at u sed t o wor k tog ether ,
n o t w a n t to w o rk to get he r any mo re . I was once to ld by a
s e ni o r go vern m ent o ffi ci al tha t ma rket ing a nd co mm uni catio ns
p r of e s s io nals had d eci de d that w e just wer e n’t g oi ng to ta lk
a b ou t n uc lear ter ro ris m and th at w as t he b e st wa y to handl e
i t , b e c au se i t mi gh t s ca re Ame ri ca ns. And I com pl ete ly
d i sa g r e e.

I ha v e be en p r ivi le ged t o trav el a roun d ou r coun tr y a nd ta lk

a b ou t t hi s is s ue wi th Am erican s al l ov er. In De s Moi nes;
C o lu m b i a, Sou t h C ar oli na ; and St . Pete rsbu r g, Fl or ida ;
M a nc h e s te r, N e w H am psh ir e; and i n ever y si n gle t al k a nd
f o ru m , no t on e pe rs on le ft the re f earf ul, a fraid . Th ey le ft
e m po w e r ed . O n ce th ey he ard ab ou t the thre a t; on ce th ey kn ew
t h er e w as som e thi ng we c ould d o, t hey were ready t o g o.

A n d w h a t they cou ld n’t u nderst an d is w hy w e ren’t o ur leade rs

d o in g s om ethi n g a bo ut th is. T he y didn ’t u n derst an d, well,
i f o u r le ader s kn ow ab ou t this t hr eat and i f our l ead ers
k n ow w h at the sol ut ion s are, w hy a ren’ t th e y doi ng it ? An d
I do n ’ t r eall y ha ve a go od ans we r for that . It wa s q uite
f r us t r a ti ng, I ha ve to s ay.

S o I h o pe tha t th e nex t admini st ra tion tal k s qui te ca ndidl y

a b ou t t hi s is s ue an d a sk s Amer ic an s to ste p up a nd do thei r
p a rt , t oo . I t ta ke s a ll of us w or king tog e ther, a nd I kno w
t h at m y f ello w ci ti zen s are up f or the cha l lenge .

S e co n d l y, I w o uld t ell t he adm in is trat ion t hat t he be st wa y

t o d e m o ns trat e th at th is is a pr io rity is t o act ua lly have a
p e rs o n in cha r ge of it . It se em s so c lear when yo u s ay it .
R i gh t n ow , th e re ar e l ot s of p eo pl e wo rkin g on p re ven ting
n u cl e a r t erro r ism a nd pr eventi ng w eapo ns o f mass d est ructi on
a n d t e r ro rism . A nd th ey ’re fi ne p eopl e an d they ’r e d oing a
g o od j o b, and the y’ re wo rking qu it e ha rd.

H o we v e r , when you t hin k about th e fact tha t ther e is nobod y

w h o w o k e up t h is mo rni ng , at a v er y hi gh l e vel i n
g o ve r n m en t, w i th hi s o r her ea r to the pre s ident , who , thi s
i s t h e i r one p rio ri ty. That s ca re s me . W e need s ome body at
a hi g h le vel, wit h the r ight r es ou rces , to be ab le to be i n
c h ar g e . And o n t hi s i ss ue, ev en c ongr ess— w hich ev ery one
k n ow s i s the m ost p art is an con gr es s we ’ve h ad in a lo ng ti me
— t he y e ve n ag r ee an d w er e able t o pass a b i ll cr ea tin g suc h
a po s i t io n, c a lle d, Th e Coordi na to r.

T h is b i ll was pas se d i n August o f 2007 . T h at’s wh en

P r es i d e nt Bus h si gn ed it , and to d ate, tha t posi ti on has y et
t o b e f il led. I ha ve be en tol d it ’s b ecau s e som e law yers
h a ve s o me con c ern s abo ut some of t he l angu a ge. An d w hile
t h at m a y be t h e c as e, I think th at we have lawye rs th at ca n
f i gu r e th ose t hin gs ou t, withi n 13 -mon ths, in th is co untry .

T h er e ’ s s impl y to o muc h at sta ke f or u s no t to d o thi s and

t o n o t co ordi n ate a mon gs t agen ci es . I thi n k you a ll know
t h at a n d I’m v ery h ope fu l that y ou ’re goin g to h av e s ome
r e co m m e nd atio n s t o mak e sure t ha t we g et s o mebod y in charg e,
a t a h i gh eno u gh le vel , who’s gi ve n th e re s ource s to do th is
j o b w e l l.

T h ir d l y , the p rev en tio n of wea po ns of mass destr uc tio n mus t

b e o n t he age n da of th e next p re si dent , wh e never h e s peaks
t o a n o t he r fo r eig n lea de r. It p ai ns m e to see t ha t w e’re
n o t m a k in g it a t op pr io rity f or o ther cou n tries t o w ork
w i th u s , if t h ey wa nt to work wi th the U.S . on a ny is sue i t
n e ed s t o be o n th e age nd a for ev er y ti me o u r lea de rs are
s p ea k i n g to l e ade rs of o ther n at io ns. Oth e rwise , how are
t h ey g o in g to kno w tha t it’s o ur t op p rior i ty if w e d on’t
m a ke t h em kno w .

S o b e f o re I c o ncl ud e, I want t o sa y on e th i ng ab ou t m y mom .

W e ’r e f ro m Bo s ton a nd we ’re Re d So x fa ns. I pro ba bly
s h ou l d n ’t say tha t in Ne w York , bu t I’ m st r ong a nd I can
a d mi t i t. An d be ca use w e are Re d Sox fans , we h av e t o be
o p ti m i s ts ; es p eci al ly wh en Tam pa B ay i s pl a ying so we ll. So
b e in g a n opti m ist h as it s good a nd its bad days, b ut I’m
h o pi n g th at t o day i s a g ood da y be caus e my mom t au ght me a nd
m y s i s t er tha t we c oul d do any th in g. She r eally d id.

A n d I t hi nk t h at wa s t ha t insp ir at ion that led u s to co-

f o un d F am ilie s of S ept em ber 11 th , after her murder. It never
dawned on me that we couldn’t do that. It never dawned on me that
we couldn’t get our government to create a 9/11 Commission. It
never dawned on me that it would be tough to get congress to
create a new Director of National Intelligence. I knew we could,
because my mom told me we could, because my country has brought me
up to know that anything is possible.

A n d I a lw ays h ave t o p lu g that —m y mom bein g a bi g Red Sox

f a n— I ’ l l neve r fo rg et in the f al l of 2 001, so ma ny Am erica ns
w a nt e d th e Ya n kee s to wi n the Wo rl d Se ries . Not o n o ur
w a tc h . I kne w th at an d in fac t, t he R ed S o x won t hei r fir st
W o rl d S er ies o n w ha t w ou ld hav e be en m y mo m ’s 54 th birthday,
which was obviously quite a bittersweet day for us. But I think
there was a shout out to her.

S o b e f o re I l e ave , I a ga in wan t to tha nk y o u for t he honor

o f s p e a ki ng b e for e you , and th an k you for t he ve ry im porta nt
w o rk t h at you are d oin g. We’r e pa ying att e ntion a nd we’re
j u st s o g rate f ul th at yo u’re w il li ng t o ta k e on th is very
b i g t a s k. An d li ke my m om, I am o ptim isti c that y ou’ re
g o in g t o deli v er it to t he nex t ad mini stra t ion, a tho rough
a n d a c t io nabl e li st of r ecomme nd at ions tha t will b e
i m pl e m e nt ed.

A n d I ’ m o ptim i sti c tha t we, as A me rica ns, c an fa ce th e ver y

d i ff i c u lt rea l iti es an d make t he t ough dec i sions a nd take
t h e r i g ht act i ons t o e ns ure th at o ur e nemi e s can no t r ealiz e
t h ei r t er ribl e go al s. A nd in do in g so , we can m ak e s ure
t h at A m er ican s , o th er Am erican s, w ill neve r have t o l earn
n e w n o r ma ls, l ike m y f am ily an d wa y to o ma n y oth er s h ave h ad
t o l e a r n. So wit h tha t, thank y ou ver y mu c h. I ’m ve ry mu ch
l o ok i n g f orwa r d t o see w hat yo u co me u p wi t h, an d I’m happ y
t o t a k e q uest i ons .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: C ari e, thank y ou ver y mu c h for t hat very

e l oq u e n t stat e men t and y our pa ss io n in crea s es ou r pas sion to
f u lf i l l t his m iss io n. T his is a t hrea t be y ond i ma gin ation
b u t i t is a t h rea t whe re human w il l an d ap p licat io n c an
s u bs t a n ti ally inc re ase o ur sec ur it y, a nd y o u hav e giv en us
t h at c h al leng e . To ex pr ess th e ap prec iati o n of th e
c o mm i s s io n, I wou ld li ke to ca ll o n Co mmis s ioner T im Roeme r,
w h o i s a memb e r o f bot h the Co ng re ssio nal J oint En cre e
[ p ho n e t ic ], a n d t he n t he 9/11 Co mm issi on.

C O MM . R OE MER: Th an k y ou , Mr. Ch ai rman . I ’ ll be v ery brie f.

I am n o t goin g to g et in to the b as ebal l co m paris on s, Carie ,
t h at y o u got i nto h ere i n New Yo rk Cit y, w i th th e Bos ton R ed
S o x, a n d the r iva lr y b et ween t he N ew Y ork Y ankee s.

I do w a nt to t ake a mo me nt to sa y how abso l utely

e x tr a o r di nary and u npr ec edente d, a nd i n th e end, s o
e f fe c t i ve , yo u r p ar tic ip ation wa s in t he e f forts t o m ake o ur
g o ve r n m en t ac c oun ta ble , to hol d th eir feet to th e fir e, an d
t o h e l p t he g o ver nm ent c hange, a nd mak e ne w legi sl ati ve
e f fo r t s t o re o rga ni ze it self, in l ight of t he 21 st Century
threats.
I re m e m be r si t tin g dow n with y ou a nd d ozen s and do zen s of
o t he r 9 /1 1 fa m ily m emb er s, bei ng a lia ison from th e 9 /11
C o mm i s s io n, t o th e fam il ies. An d in o ne o f the fi rst
m e et i n g s, I r e mem be r w e were t al ki ng a bout a leg is lat ive
s t ra t e g y and o ne of th e member s of you r fa m ilies s aid whic h
o n e, T i m, is b igg er , t he House o r the Sena t e? W hi ch one h as
m o re m e mb ers? An d we al l scra tc he d ou r he a ds an d gig gled
a n d l a u gh ed a lit tl e b it , thin ki ng thi s is reall y goi ng to
b e d i f f ic ult t o a ch iev e this i f fa mily mem b ers d on ’t know
t h e d i f fe renc e s b et wee n the Ho us e and the S enate a nd the
s i ze , h ow are we go ing t o ever , ef fect ivel y , get o ur
g o ve r n m en t to be ac cou nt able a nd m ake chan g es?

A n d y o u f olks wer e the k ey rea so n why that 9/11 Co mmi ssion

s u cc e e d ed . Y o u h el d p eo ple ac co un tabl e, y o u tes ti fie d
b e fo r e co ngre s s, yo u w en t to e di to rial boa r ds, y ou we nt to
d i st r i c ts of k ey me mbe rs of co ng re ss t o ma k e sur e the y wer e
g o in g t o vote for t hes e reform s, a nd t he 9 / 11 fa mi lie s fro m
t h ro u g h ou t th i s r eg ion a nd dow n in Vir gini a , wer e the
r e as o n s w hy g o ver nm ent c hanged .

A n d I h op e th a t y ou an d other 9/ 11 fam ily m ember s wil l re-

e n ga g e an d he l p t hi s c om missio n be suc cess f ul in s ome thing
t h at n o t only nee ds th e Americ an p eopl e’s h elp, bu t w orld
s u pp o r t , to g a in tr act io n and ge t the maxi m um ef fo rt put
f o rw a r d , to m a ke th is wo rld sa fe r. We hav e a lo ng wa y to
g o , a n d w ith y our h elp w e can do i t ag ain.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you, T im . Vic e-Ch a irman T ale nt.

V I CE - C H AI R TA L ENT : Th e chairm an a nd I are both go ing to b e

c a re f u l a bout how m uch t ime we t ak e wi th t h ese w it nes ses.
B u t y o u s aid s ome th ing t hat I th in k is so i mport an t, I wan t
t o e m p h as ize. On e of th e diff ic ul ties of m eetin g thi s
t h re a t , i s be c aus e civ il ized p eo pl e do n’t b eliev e tha t the re
a r e p e o pl e ar o und w ho re ally w il l do t his. And th ey want to
d o i t f or the equ al bu t opposi te r easo ns t h at we d on’ t
b e li e v e t hey w ill d o i t.

A n d t h a t’ s wh a t m ak es th is so di ff icul t. T hey’r e try ing t o

d o i t p re cise l y b ec aus e the ci vi li zed worl d view s it as so
b r ut a l an d un c ons ci ona bl e, and y ou get tha t , and y ou can’t
u n de r s t an d th i s p ro ble m unless y ou fir st u n derst an d t hat.
T h an k y ou Mr. Cha ir man .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you ve ry m uch Cari e . I ap pre ciate …

M S . L E M AC K: O n b eh alf o f the 9/ 11 fam ilie s , I’v e act ually

b r ou g h t a lit t le to ken o f our ap pr ecia tion for t he wo rk th at
y o u’ r e do ing. I ha ve a bracel et h ere, for each an d e very
o n e o f yo u. T his w as de signed b y a yo ung b oy wh os e f ather
w a s k i l le d in the W orl d Trade Ce nt er, and i t say s on it:
H o no r , Ho pe, a nd Re mem be r. An d I’ m ju st g o ing t o pas s it on
t o a l l of you . T ha nk yo u agai n.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: O ur ne xt spe ak er is the v ery d is tin guish ed

m a yo r o f this cit y, wh o has de vo te d an eno r mous am oun t of
h i s g r e at tal e nt to th in king a bo ut , an d pr e parin g thi s cit y,
a n d t h r ou gh e x amp le , p re paring A me rica for the p os sib ility
o f t h i s h orri f ic ev ent . We ar e ex trem ely p lease d and
h o no r e d t o ha v e M ay or Mi chael Bl oo mbur g. M ayor Bl oom burg.
T h an k y ou .

M A YO R B LO OMBU R G: G ood m orning . T hank you . Goo d mor ning.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you, M r. M ayor . W e appr ec iat e you r

s h ar i n g y our m orn in g w it h us.

M A YO R B LO OMBU R G: H app y to do it . You ’re t rying t o m ake a

d i ff e r e nc e an d we n eed t he peo pl e to d o th a t. W e’ ve talke d
a lo t a bo ut t h e p ro ble ms , I th in k, and it’ s time t o r eally
d o s o m e th ing a bou t the m. I ju st w ant to s t art b y tha nking
y o u f o r i nvit i ng me to c ome th is m orni ng a n d tes ti fy. By
h o ld i n g t hese hea ri ngs , I real ly d o th ink t hat y ou ar e doi ng
o u r e n t ir e na t ion a se rv ice. A go vern ment ’ s fir st an d mos t
c r it i c a l resp o nsi bi lit y has al wa ys bee n to prote ct it s
c i ti z e n s, and I t hi nk th at nev er h as t hat r espon si bil ity
b e en m o re cha l len gi ng th an it is t oday .

W e a re c u rre nt ly en gaged wi th ene mies who a re be nt on

o u r w h o le sale des tr uct io n; who w on ’t h esit a te to u nle ash
w e ap o n s o f en o ugh f orc e and ma gn it ude to k i ll mi ll ion s of
p e op l e an d wr e ck un tol d chaos. An d I thin k no o ne
u n de r s t an ds t h at be tte r than N ew Y orke rs. As yo u kno w,
t o mo r r o w— seve n -ye ar s a go from to mo rrow —a g r oup o f ter roris ts
b r ut a l l y, bra z enl y att ac ked th is c ity’ s tw o tall es t
s k ys c r a pe rs, w rit in g a n ugly n ew c hapt er i n the hi sto ry of
h o rr o r an d ev i l.

A n d i n th ose s eve n- yea rs since , I’ m pl ease d to s ay Ne w

Y o rk e r s h ave c ome t oge th er to re bu ild a ci t y tha t is safer ,
s t ro n g e r, and mor e wel co ming t ha n ever . I f anyt hi ng, our
i n cr e d i bl e co m eba ck is a shini ng t esta ment , I th in k, to th e
r e si l i e nc e of the A mer ic an spi ri t. Bu t ev e n as Ne w Y orker s
h a ve r e bu ilt a nd re tur ne d to o ur d aily liv e s, I ho pe we’ve
n o t l o s t sigh t of t he fa ct tha t ou r ci ty i s stil l squ arely
i n t h e cr ossh a irs .
I n f a c t , just las t wee k, a Pak is ta ni w oman with ti es to Al -
Q a ed a , an d a d egr ee fr om MIT, wa s char ged w ith t ry ing to
k i ll U . S. sol d ier s in Af ghanis ta n. An d wh e n she w as
a r re s t e d, she was o min ou sly ca rr yi ng a lis t of N ew Yo rk Ci ty
i c on s , in clud i ng th e S ta tue of L ib erty , th e Broo kl yn Bridg e,
W a ll S t re et, a nd th e E mp ire St at e Buil ding .

C l ea r l y , New Y ork i s a p owerfu l sy mbol of w hat o ur en emies

f i nd s o t hrea t eni ng ; c ap italis m an d fr eedo m , mod er nit y and
d i ve r s i ty , eq u ali ty an d tolera nc e. Ne w Yo r k, as y ou know,
i s t h e wo rld’ s me di a a nd finan ci al cap ital . It’ s the home
o f t h e Un ited Nat io ns, a nd a p la ce whe re e v ery f ai th is no t
o n ly r e sp ecte d , b ut is p ractic ed . For tho s e rea so ns and
b e ca u s e w e ar e Am er ica ’s bigge st c ity, we r emain a pr ime, if
n o t t h e p rime , ta rg et fo r terr or is t gr oups . And t hat
p r es e n t s chal l eng es th at we ar e de term ined to me et he ad-on ,
a n d y o u ’d be h app y to kn ow, we a re spa ring no ex pe nse .

A l th o u g h prep a red ne ss is a cru ci al par t of our c ou nte r-

t e rr o r i sm eff o rts , let m e, thi s mo rnin g, c o ncent ra te remar ks
o n t h e co mmis s ion ’s pr im ary co nc er n, a nd t h at is ,
p r ev e n t io n. I ’m gl ad to see t ha t cong ress has f oc use d thi s
c o mm i s s io n on pre ve nti on , beca us e cong ress , I th in k, has
l o st t h at foc u s o ve r t he last se ve n-ye ars. Peop le we send
t o W a s h in gton hav e bee n too bu sy s prea ding aroun d hom eland
s e cu r i t y fund s , b as ed on votes a nd not on t hreat s, an d thi s
i s a p h en omen a lly d ang er ous th in g for our c ountr y.

P r ev e n t io n ha s al wa ys be en our N o. 1 p rior i ty in N ew York

C i ty , a nd her e at h ome w e’ve n ot o nly hire d some o f t he be st
m i nd s i n the i nte ll ige nc e comm un it y, b ut w e put ou r c ultur al
d i ve r s i ty to w ork f or us by hi ri ng mor e po l ice o ff ice rs wh o
s p ea k t he lan g uag es we n eed to k no w. Toda y , mor e tha n 700
m e mb e r s o f th e po li ce de partme nt s peak 47 d iffer en t
l a ng u a g es in o ur gr owi ng forei gn l angu age d ivisi on . And
t h at i n cl udes 63 Ar abi c langua ge s peak ers.

P r ev e n t io n re q uir es pe rs onnel, n ot jus t eq u ipmen t. A nd

l o ca l c ou nter ter ro ris m effort s li ke o urs s hould b e
s u pp o r t ed by t he fe der al gover nm en t. I’ve sworn i n a clas s
o f 7 , 0 0 0 poli c e o ff ice rs at Ma di so n Sq uare Garde n a c ouple
o f m o n t hs ago — we do th at twice a y ear— and t hat g ro up of
p o li c e of fice r s w er e b or n in 5 8 di ffer ent c ountr ie s a round
t h e w o r ld . T h is ci ty is diver se , our poli c e dep ar tme nt is
d i ve r s e , and w e t hi nk th at we do u nder stan d , not o nly the
p e op l e th at w e ar e her e to ser ve , but the p eople a rou nd th e
w o rl d w ho are thr ea ten in g to u s.

H i ri n g th e be s t a nd th e bright es t, inc ludi n g tho se wi th

f o re i g n l angu a ge sk ill s, is cr uc ia l to pre v entio n. I f you
c a n’ t u nd erst a nd wh at pe ople a re s ayin g or what pe opl e are
w r it i n g , I fa i l t o see h ow you c ou ld p ossi b ly kn ow wh at
t h re a t s y ou h a ve an d d o anythi ng t o pr even t them .

P r ev e n t io n is why w e a re sendi ng p olic e of f icers t o v isit

c h em i c a l plan t s, st ora ge facil it ie s, p arki n g gar ag es, and
d o ze n s of oth e r b us ine ss es tha t mi ght unwi t tingl y be used in
a te r r o ri st a t tac k. W e consta nt ly edu cate the p ri vat e
s e ct o r on sit u ati on s t he y shou ld b e aw are o f and w e a sk th em
t o r e p o rt any sus pi cio us activ it y.

W h en I wa s sw o rn in to of fice, le ss tha n th r ee-mo nt hs after

9 / 11 , o ne of t he fi rst d ecisio ns t hat this Commi ss ion er Ra y
K e ll y a nd I m a de, w as to over- ha ll the NYP D ’s In te lli gence
D i vi s i o n and c rea te a ne w coun te r- terr oris m bure au . Both
u n it s , wh ich n ow em plo y a tota l of 1,0 00 p o lice of fic ers,
h a ve b e co me m o del s to ot her bi g ci ty p olic e depa rt men ts
a r ou n d th e na t ion , and c rucial e le ment s in the g lo bal figh t
a g ai n s t t erro r ism .

I n A u g u st of 2 004 , for e xample , th e fo iled a plo t to bomb

t h e H a r ol d Sq u are S ubw ay Stati on i n Mi dtow n Manh at tan , jus t
a we e k be fore the R epu bl ican N at io nal Conv e ntion w as held
h e re . Th e ti p -of f cam e from a n in form ant, who t he
i n te l l i ge nce d ivi si on ha d cult iv at ed i n ou r city . To day,
t h e N Y P D’ s In t ell ig enc e and Co un te r-Te rror i sm Pr og ram
r e ac h e s a roun d th e wor ld .

I n f a c t , we c u rre nt ly ha ve 11 of o ur b est d etect iv es poste d

i n T e l Av iv, L ond on , A bu Dabi, a nd oth er f o reign c iti es,
f e ed i n g u s in t ell ig enc e every da y, and wor k ing t o obt ain a
f u ll p i ct ure o f t he gl ob al ter ro ri st t hrea t . Th ey ar e our
o u tr e a c h to o t her i nte ll igence a ge ncie s th a t are a lso our
e y es a n d ears , to k now w hat te rr or ists are tryin g to do
e l se w h e re aro u nd th e w or ld and w ha t th e be s t pra ct ice s oth er
h a ve d e ve lope d ar e, to f ight t ha t.

P r ev e n t io n is why w e n ow condu ct r ando m ba g sear ch es in th e

s u bw a y sy stem . W he n I g o in t he s ubwa y sy s tem e ve ry few
d a ys , t he re a r e s om e p ol ice of fi ce rs l ooki n g in ba gs. It’ s
w h y w e co nduc t ad di tio na l patr ol s for pote n tial ta rge ts.
T h at ’ s wh y we cre at ed a specia l in spec tion team to mo nitor
t h e c i t y’ s un d erw at er tu nnels. Th ey a re v u lnera bl e a nd we
o u gh t t o make sur e tha t they a re p rote cted . It’ s why we a re
a l so c o nt inui n g t o str en gthen th e ties bet w een o ur ci ty’s
M u sl i m co mmun i ty an d t he city as a who le, m aking s ure that
t h e a n t ag onis m an d res en tment, w hi ch h as b e come al l t oo
c o mm o n am ong E uro pe an Mu slims, d oe s no t ha p pen h er e.
P r ev e n t io n is the c ore p rincip le o f ou r co u nter- te rro rism
s t ra t e g y, bec a use e ven t hough we k now we r e main a tar get, we
d o n o t be liev e th at an ot her su cc es sful att a ck is i nev itabl e.
W e o w e it to o ur ci ty an d to o ur c ount ry t o do e ve ryt hing we
c a n t o en sure tha t the n ext po te nt ial atta c k is no t
s u cc e s s fu l.

T h e d e f ea tism tha t som e people h av e, I fin d stra ng e. If

y o u’ r e go ing t o b e a d ef eatist , yo u’re jus t not go ing to d o
t h e j o b o f pr e ven ti ng. We can p re vent the next te rro rist
a t ta c k , a nd i n fa ct , i f we don ’t h ave a te r roris t att ack,
w e ’l l n ev er k n ow wh eth er we th e re ason tha t they d idn ’t
a t ta c k , o r th e y j us t h ad n’t pl an ne d it . B u t I w ou ld rathe r
b e o n t ha t si d e o f an er ror th an o n th e ot h er si de .

T h e c e n te rpie c e o f the N YPD’s on go ing effo r ts to p rev ent a n

a t ta c k in New Yor k is ou r new, L ow er M anha t tan S ec uri ty
I n it i a t iv e. U nde r thi s progra m, w e’ve bee n hard en ing the
h i gh l y se nsit i ve ar ea so uth of C an al S tree t with m ass ive
i n ve s t m en ts i n te ch nol og y and pe rs onne l. A nd la st mo nth, we
r e ac h e d a wat e rsh ed ag re ement wi th the Por t Auth or ity that
w i ll g i ve the NYP D a c le arly d ef in ed r ole i n sec ur ity at t he
W o rl d T ra de C e nte r sit e, and p re em pt p oten t ial t ur f w ars.

T h e l a c k of s p eci fi cit y of who i s resp onsi b le is t he singl e

g r ea t e s t thre a t, I thi nk , to m ak in g su re t h at yo ur
i n te l l i ge nce s erv ic es do n’t pe rf or m th e fu n ction s tha t the y
w e re . It is a di ff icu lt polit ic al thi ng t o do, bu t i t’s
e x ac t l y w hat y ou ha ve to do in a dv ance . W h en so me thi ng
h a pp e n s , it’s muc h too l ate to t ry to adju d icate b etw een
d i ff e r e nt gro u ps th at th ink th at t hey have respo ns ibi lity
a n d d o n ’t coo r din at e.

S o f a r , w e ha v e c om mit te d more t ha n $7 0 mi l lion in ci ty an d

h o me l a n d secu r ity f und s to thi s Lo wer Manh a ttan Se cur ity
I n it i a t iv e. R adi at ion d etecto rs a nd t he p o lice de par tment ’s
h e av i l y a rmed Her cu les T eams h av e alre ady b een d ep loy ed.
E v en t u a ll y, s o me 3, 000 p ublic an d priv ate s ecuri ty ca meras
w i ll b e t rain e d o n thi s area a nd r elay ima g es to a ne w
c o mp u t e r cent e r. W e a ls o plan t o inst all l icens e pla te
r e ad e r s a t al l th e bri dg es and t un nels com i ng in to Lo wer
M a nh a t t an .

S o me h a ve com p are d our e ffort to t he C ity o f Lon do n’s Ring

o f S t e e l, as t hey c all i t. An e xt ensi ve w e b of ca mer as an d
r o ad b l o ck s th a t h el p p ol ice ov er t here ide n tify th e s uspec ts
i n t h e 20 05, t ube b omb in gs. B ut t he L ower Manha tt an
S e cu r i t y Init i ati ve , I ’m happy t o say, aim s to d o muc h mor e
t h an t h at .
F o r i n s ta nce, we ar e t es ting n ew s oftw are t hat c an an alyze
t h e f e e ds fro m th ou san ds of di ff er ent came r as an d pic k up
s u sp i c i ou s mo v eme nt , l ik e a ca r th at r epea t edly ci rcl es a
c i ty b l oc k, o r so me one w ho put s do wn a bag and t he n w alks
a w ay .

T h e p o i nt is, thi s is mo re tha n ju st a too l that p oli ce ca n

u s e t o re spon d to a n a tt ack, i t’ s some thin g we h op e w ill
p r ev e n t t he a t tac k in th e firs t pl ace, and stop te rro rists
b e fo r e th ey r e ach t hei r target s.

I n N e w Yo rk, w e u nd ers ta nd tha t pr even ting terro ri sts and

r e sp o n d in g to any l arg e- scale em er genc y, a l so de pe nds on
s m oo t h co ordi n ati on am on g key fe de ral, sta t e, an d cit y
a g en c i e s. An d we ’v e a ss igned mo re tha n 12 5 of o ur po lice
o f fi c e r s to t h e F BI /NY PD Joint T er rori sm T a sk Fo rc e,
i n cl u d i ng thr e e i n Was hi ngton DC . And the resul t is genui ne
t w o- w a y i nfor m ati on sh ar ing th at I thi nk i s uniq ue in
A m er i c a . Com m iss io ner K elly w il l be h ere l ater an d y ou ca n
t a lk t o h im a b out t hat .

B u t w e ha ve n o thi ng bu t good t hi ng s to say about t he

c o op e r a ti on t h at we ’re g etting i n Wash ingt o n. I t’ s a two-
w a y s t r ee t an d we a re ce rtainl y tr ying to h elp w ho eve r we
c a n. S uc h ex c ell en t c oo perati on n otwi thst a nding , how ever,
t h e f e d er al g o ver nm ent , I thin k, d oes need to do m ore to
p r ot e c t o ur c i ty.

F o r e x a mp le, w e a re lo ok ing to t he FBI to m ake i ts ow n

c o un t e r -t erro r ism p rog ra m more e ff ecti ve a n d mor e
a g gr e s s iv e, a s ca ll ed fo r by t he 9 /11 Comm i ssion a nd other s.
A l so , t im e an d ti me ag ai n, I t hi nk we’ ve a l l see n hug e sum s
o f H o m e la nd S e cur it y f un ding t ha t coul d ha v e bee n use d to
b o ls t e r o ur d e fen se s, in stead, t re ated lik e poli ti cal pork
a n d d o l ed out to co mmu ni ties t ha t eith er d o n’t n ee d i t or
d o n’ t k no w wh a t t o do wi th it wh en the y ge t ther e.

T h e s t o ri es a r e l eg ion , about pe op le b uyin g equi pm ent that

j u st g e ts par k ed in a ga rage, th er e’s no r e ason fo r i t. O ne
s e na t o r d id t e ll me on e time, so n— he k ept p ointi ng an d
s t ic k i n g me i n th e che st with hi s fing er—h e said s on, this
c o un t r y h as t o ea t. A nd if th ey a ttac k ou r corn c rop we’r e
t o as t . I don ’ t t hi nk to ast, n ec es sari ly, i s mad e out of
c o rn , p ro babl y mo re wh ea t, but n ev erth eles s , thi s guy was
a c tu a l l y seri o us.

N o w t h e re are dan ge rs to this co un try. Al l over t his

c o un t r y t here are n atu ra l thre at s, the re a r e dom es tic
t h re a t s , ther e ar e far ml and th re at s, a nd w e have t o d ecide
w h er e t he thr e at is th e most l ik el y an d co n centr at e o ur
r e so u r c es the r e.

N o w w h i le thi s is g oin g on, I th in k it ’s f a ir to s ay that

N e w Y o r k does hav e eno rm ous ne ed s. We ’ve b een a tt ack ed
b e fo r e , w e’ve bee n tar ge ted ma ny t imes , an d we r em ain in t he
c r os s h a ir s, a n d a ll ou r needs go w anti ng.

F r om t h e star t , I ’v e u rg ed tha t Ho mela nd S e curit y fun ding be

d i st r i b ut ed b a sed o n t er rorism r is k al one. I ha ve pu blicl y
r e no u n c ed any agr ic ult ur al aid f or New Yor k City , and I
t h in k i t will be ju st fi ne if th e corn are a that t he senat or
w a s r e p re sent i ng di d a c omplim en ta ry t hing and r en oun ced
t e rr o r i sm fun d ing . I ta lked a bo ut thr eat- b ased fu ndi ng wh en
I te s t i fi ed b e for e the 9 /1 Com mi ss ion, and I was p lea sed
t h at m e mb ers o f t he co mm ission i nc orpo rate d many o f o ur
a r gu m e n ts int o th ei r r ec ommend at io ns.

N o w t o th e cr e dit o f H om eland Se cu rity , th e y hav e beg un

m o vi n g so me o f th ei r g ra nt pro gr am s to ward s a sy st em of
a l lo c a t in g fu n din g tha t gives gr ea ter cons i derat io n t o
t h re a t an d vu l ner ab ili ty . Mic ha el Che rtof f , has a ve ry
d i ff i c u lt job in th e r ea l poli ti ca l wo rld, and h e is tryin g
t o d o w ha t’s r igh t. B ut I don ’t t hink tha t we a re th ere.

T h e p r o bl em i s th at it ’s a sys te m, whi ch g i ves g re ate r

c o ns i d e ra tion to ev ery k ind of t hr eat. Ev e n if th ey’ re
t r yi n g to con c ent ra te mo nies w he re the thr e ats a re , t here
a r e d i f fe rent kin ds of t hreats . T here are hurri ca nes and
c h em i c a l spil l s, an d p la gues o f lo cust s, y o u nam e it. The
r e su l t is tha t th e spe ci al cha ra ct eris tics , whic h set New
Y o rk a p ar t as a u ni que a nd unp ar al lele d ta r get f or
t e rr o r i sm , of t en ge t c om pletel y ov erlo oked .

A n d o n to p of tha t, th e total am ou nt o f Ho m eland S ecu rity

f u nd i n g , requ e ste d by th e admi ni st rati on a n d app ro pri ated by
c o ng r e s s, has bee n dec li ning. T hi s si mply canno t con tinue ,
n o t i f we ’re s eri ou s a bo ut pre ve nt ing anot h er at ta ck. At
t h e s a m e time , we h ave t o keep w or king wit h cong re ss and t he
D e pa r t m en t of Hea lt h a nd Human S er vice s, t o fix th e
d i st r i b ut ion o f b io -te rr orism pr ep ared ness fundi ng , w hich is
a l lo c a t ed ess e nti al ly, w ithout r is k of ter r orist a tta ck.

B e ca u s e o f th e an th rax e pisode i n 2001 , Ne w York i s o ne of

o n ly a ha ndfu l of p lac es in th e na tion tha t ’s ev er
e x pe r i e nc ed a bio -t err or ist at ta ck . Y et, i n fis ca l 2 008, we
r e ce i v e d $2.7 2 pe r cap it a, put ti ng us an i n credi bl e 2 1 st , out
of the 54 eligible states and cities. What makes the situation
especially challenging is that the total pool of bio-terrorism
f u nd i n g t hat’ s di st rib ut ed acr os s the nati o n, co nt inu ously
f a ll s s ho rt o f th e act ua l need s of our cou n try. A nd
c o mb i n i ng the s e t wo fa ct s thre at en to seve r ely h am per or
h a ms t r i ng our eff or ts to prote ct N ew Y ork C ity, as be st as
w e p o s s ib ly c a n, fr om bi o-terr or is m.

W e , f o r e xamp l e, mo nit or 60,00 0 di ffer ent d ata p oi nts ever y

s i ng l e da y, 3 6 5 d ay s a y ear, t o tr y to spo t bio- te rro rism.
T h ey d o n’ t ri n g a b ell w hen so me bo dy l aunc h es a bi o-
t e rr o r i st att a ck. It is somet hi ng tha t is hard to de tect,
h a rd e r to def i ne wh ere i t came f ro m, a nd w e cann ot do
a n yt h i n g abou t it u nti l you, a ft er the fac t , kno w whe re it ’s
c o mi n g fr om. It’ s the s urveil la nc e th at r e ally ma tte rs in
b i o- t e r ro rism .

O n e p o t en tial cas ua lty o f our st at e-of -the - art b io -wa tch

s u rv e i l la nce s yst em , w hi ch mon it or s th e ci t y air q ual ity f or
t h e f i r st sig n s o f ant hr ax, sm al lp ox, and o ther da nge rous
a g en t s , i s th a t i t’ s s lo wly be in g stri pped of it s fun ding.
A n d e v e ry min u te co unt s in a b io -t erro rist attac k. We
s i mp l y ca n’t c ont in ue to under mi ne the sys t em th at wi ll wa rn
u s o f a n atta c k, be for e it is to o late to s ave l iv es.

F i na l l y , we’l l co nt inu e challe ng in g co ngre s s to in cre ase

f u nd i n g f or a n oth er ke y part o f ou r de fens e , and t hat is t he
D e pa r t m en t of Hom el and S ecurit y’ s, Sec urin g the Ci tie s
I n it i a t iv e, w h ich P oli ce Commi ss io ner Kell y will d isc uss i n
m o re d e ta il l a ter o n.

N e w York is ac tua ll y a pi lo t site for this pr ogr am,

w h ic h i nv olve s a mu lti -l ayered r in g of sen s ors t ha t c an
d e te c t ra dioa c tiv e nuc le ar mat er ia l be fore it en te rs the
c i ty . De tect i on de vic es are s tr at egic ally place d in New
J e rs e y , C onne c tic ut , a nd Upsta te N ew Y ork, as we ll as at
m a jo r e nt ry p o int s int o Manhat ta n. Bu t in the y et to be
p a ss e d , f isca l ’0 9 app ro priati on s bill , we are s ti ll $10
m i ll i o n s hort in fe der al fundi ng , from ful l y imp le men ting
t h is p r og ram.

A n d i t ’ s not j ust N ew Yo rk Cit y th at i s ge t ting sh ort -

c h an g e d , sinc e we ’r e a ct ing as t he tes t si t e for o the r
c i ti e s . The l ong er it t akes f or u s to get it ri gh t, the
l o ng e r it wil l ta ke be fo re thi s sy stem is r olled o ut to th e
r e st o f t he c o unt ry . We can’t a ff ord to n i ckel an d d ime t he
b e st h o pe we h ave f or pr eventi ng t he w orst possi bl e
c a la m i t y. Th e ex pl osi on of a nu cl ear devi c e can c ost
t h ou s a n ds of l ive s, de va state ou r econ omy, and p lu nge us
i n to f u rt her c onf li cts o versea s.
W e j u s t h ave t o t ak e t hi s thre at s erio usly . And f or us to
d o t h a t , the f ede ra l g ov ernmen t mu st t ake N ew Yo rk se rious ly
a n d p r o vi de t h e r es our ce s we n ee d to p rote c t wha t is clear ly
t h e t e r ro rist ’ s N o. 1 ta rget. T hi s is no p lace fo r
p o li t i c s, and hop ef ull y, this ha ri ng w ill b egin th e p roces s
o f c r e a ti ng a sys te m t ha t more f ai rly and e quita bl y a ttend s
t o t h e se curi t y o f New Y ork Ci ty a nd o ur e n tire ho mel and.
A n d I a pp reci a te th e o pp ortuni ty t o ad dres s you an d I ’ll b e
h a pp y t o take any q ues ti ons yo u mi ght have . And w elc ome t o
N e w Y o r k.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you fo r yo ur w elco m e and f or your

v e ry i n si ghtf u l c om men ts , Mr. Ma yo r. We a r e goi ng to
o r ga n i z e the q ues ti oni ng with le ad que stio n ers, wh o h ave
b e en p r ep ared to pr obe w hat th ey f eel are t he mo st
s i gn i f i ca nt i s sue s to ou r fina l re port . T h e lea d
q u es t i o ne rs o n th is pa ne l are fi rs t, C ommi s sione r Tim
R o em e r , t hen C omm is sio ne r Rade ma ke r.

C O MM . R OE MER: Th an k y ou , Mr. Ch ai rman for the t im e. Mayo r,

t h an k y ou for you r tim e. You’ re v ery gene r ous t o be with us
t h is m o rn ing; ext re mel y genero us w ith your time, t o g o dow n
t o W a s h in gton DC, w her e I last s aw you , wh e re yo u tes tifie d.

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: P lea se d to b e in vite d.

C O MM . R OE MER: An d whe re you t ri ed to work congr es s i nto

m a ki n g so me c h ang es . Yo u were e lo quen t an d toug h on them,
w h ic h t he y sh o uld b e—

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: [ Int er posing ] I’ d pr efer it if y ou’ d use

t h e w o r d, eff e cti ve .

C O MM . R OE MER: We ll , I ’m not s ur e we’r e th e re, y et , m ayor.

I wi s h yo u wo u ld ha ve be en mor e ef fect ive, becau se I agree
w i th y o u on t r yin g to do some th in gs a bout tryin g to chang e
t h e w a y t he H o mel an d S ec urity De pa rtme nt a n d con gr ess puts
t h is f u nd ing f orm ul a t og ether so t hat it i s base d on risk,
v u ln e r a bi lity , an d int el ligenc e; n ot o n po r k bar re l s pendi ng
w h er e t he y ca n bu y Kev la r vest s fo r do gs, a nd ai r
c o nd i t i on ed g a rba ge tr uc ks, an d no t re ally set u p the
l a ye r e d d efen s es th at we need in t his coun t ry, i n pla ces
l i ke N e w York Cit y, wh er e we k no w it’s a t a rget.

N o bo dy n e eds t o r em ind yo u, m ayor , th a t New Y ork City is

i n t h e cr oss h air s. S ev en-yea rs a go y este r day, th is city
w a s a t t ac ked b y A l- Qae da ; 3,00 0 pe ople die d . I re mem ber
g o in g t o Grou n d Z er o d ay s afte r th e at tack and h av ing one of
y o ur e m er genc y wo rk ers d escrib e to me, wat c hing pe opl e jum p
f r om b u il ding s . An d t hi s guy lo ok ed l ike n ot mu ch co uld
a f fe c t hi m, b u t h e was p robabl y 65 -yea rs o l d and t ear s
s t re a m e d down his c hee ks , and he s aid we’r e doin g all we
c a n. B ut it w asn ’t qu it e enou gh w hen they attac ke d u s.

I ha ve t h ree q ues ti ons fo r yo u, a s it relat es to this

n e w c o m mi ssio n . On e i s, somet hi ng you and I bot h are
w o rk i n g t o be mor e eff ec tive o n; h ow d o we chang e thi s
f u nd i n g f ormu l a? A nd tr y to g iv e me a n ex a mple of ho w New
Y o rk C i ty wou l d m or e e ff ective ly u se f eder a l dol la rs that
t h ey m i gh t ta k e f ro m m y home s ta te of Indi a na—wh ic h t hey
p r ob a b l y shou l d—t o pre ve nt an at ta ck o n Ne w York C ity . An d
i t c o u l d be a bio o r a n uclear a tt ack. Wh a t are y ou not
d o in g t od ay t h at th ose f ederal d ol lars cou l d hel p you do?

S e co ndly , on i nfo rm ation sh ar ing you t alked a bou t how

y o u’ r e be comi n g m or e a nd more ef fe ctiv e he r e, an d I’m glad
t o h e a r t hat. I th ink w e need t o do a bet t er jo b all acro ss
t h e c o u nt ry, i n t hi s a re a. Ho w ca n we imp r ove b ot h t he
v e rt i c a l and t he ho riz on tal in fo rm atio n sh a ring, n ot just
p u sh i n g i nfor m ati on up f rom Ne w Yo rk C ity p olice o ffi cers
a n d t h e i nfor m ati on ga th erers to t he f eder a l lev el , b ut al so
N e w Y o r k City to L. A., o r best p ra ctic e, f r om Ne w Yor k to
C h ic a g o ?

A n d thir d , a nd so me thing th at I t hink you’r e qui te go od

a t , i s ho w do we en gag e the pu bl ic in this effor t wit hout
s c ar i n g t hem i nto s ayi ng there ’s n othi ng w e can do ? This is
s u ch a n h orri f ic pr obl em , how do w e en gage New Y or ker s and
A m er i c a ns to b e p ar t o f the so lu ti on a nd h e lp us s olv e thi s
p r ob l e m , rath e r t ha n s ca ring t he m so m uch w ith a n ucl ear
c a ta s t r op he, t hat t hey s ay the re ’s not muc h I ca n do.

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: L et me addre ss t he t hird one f ir st. Whe n

I fi r s t c ame i nto o ffi ce , we s ta rt ed t hese diffe re nt teams
o f h e a v il y ar m ed po lic e office rs , who woul d show u p a t
d i ff e r e nt loc a tio ns at d iffere nt t imes , un e xpect ed ly. And I
t h ou g h t , oh, m y g oo dne ss , they d o this in E urope , but
A m er i c a ns are n ’t re ady f or thi s ki nd o f a m essag e and they
w i ll b e s care d . An d I t hink o ur e xper ienc e is q ui te the
r e ve r s e .

W h en you see 5 0 o r 75 pol ic e cars , li t erall y, 50 or 7 5,

g o in g d ow n a s tre et , l ig hts fl as hi ng, all t ogeth er , t hat i s
o n e o f ou r pr a cti ce dr il ls to ma ke sur e th a t if we ha d to
m a rs h a l r esou r ces i n a ny one p ar t of t he c i ty at a ny time of
t h e d a y , in a n y k in d o f weathe r, w e’ve don e it b ef ore and we
k n ow h o w to d o it . We k now ho w to get the resou rc es
t o ge t h e r and c oor di nat e them a nd p rovi de t r affic c ont rol,
a n d a l l o f th a t s or t o f stuff. Wh en t he p o lice of fic er’s
h e av i l y a rmed or in th e subway s, o r ju st o n a st re et corne r,
p e op l e se em t o fe el co mf orted ra th er t han t hreat en ed.

I th ink A mer ic ans a re rea li st ic a bout the d an ger s tha t

w e f a c e i n th e wo rl d, an d they w ou ld p refe r to k no w t hat
s o me t h i ng is b ein g don e. In A me ri ca, unli k e in lo ts of
o t he r p la ces i n t he wo rl d, we vi ew the pol i ce de pa rtm ent a s
o u r e m p lo yees and o ur al lies, an d that the y are th ere to
h e lp u s . Sad l y, in ma ny parts o f the worl d , the p oli ce ar e
t h e e n e my . T h at’ s cer ta inly n ot t rue in N e w Yor k and I
d o n’ t t hi nk i t ’s tr ue in the r es t of t his c ountr y.

T h e stor i es ar e l eg ion of s om ebod y st a nding o n t he

s t re e t co rner wit h a m ap , tota ll y lost and havin g tha t
p o li c e of fice r co me up t o them a nd say , ex c use m e, I’ m fro m
t h e N e w Y ork C ity P oli ce Depar tm en t; m ay I help yo u? And
I ’ ve h e ar d th a t s to ry fo r the la st 10- 15 y e ars. A gai n,
f r ie n d s o f mi n e f ro m o ve rseas; t he y ju st c a n’t q ui te get
t h at , i t’ s so uni qu e. A nd to us i t’s what they sh oul d be
d o in g , an d in fac t, th ey do th at .

I ’ ve alw a ys ha d a p roblem w it h fu ndin g , in th e s ense

t h at I do n’t k now h ow I could po ss ibly exp l ain t o our
c i ti z e n s that I d id n’t t ake a st ep , bu y a p iece of
e q ui p m e nt , hi r e s om ebo dy , trai n so mebo dy, g o thr ou gh a
d r il l , th at I tho ug ht wa s nece ss ar y to pro t ect t he pu blic,
b e ca u s e w e ha d n’t b een f unded fr om the fed e ral g ov ern ment.
S o w e t en d to go an d d o it fir st , ours elve s . No w peo ple
s a y, o h , New Y ork i s a h igh ta x st ate. Ye s , tha t’ s w hy we
h a ve v e ry low cri me .

W e h a v e a pol i ce de par tm ent th at c osts us $ 5.5 b il lio n

a n nu a l l y, but we ma ke th is cit y sa fe. And it co me s o ut of
t h e t a x pa yers of Ne w Y or k City ’s p ocke ts. When we ne ed
e q ui p m e nt , Po l ice C omm is sioner K el ly h as t h e aut ho rit y to go
a n d b u y t he e q uip me nt. And th at ’s not to s ay th at we don’ t
h a ve a li mita t ion ; we cl early do . We have budge t pro blems
l i ke e v er ybod y el se . Bu t what w e try to d o is f ir st hire
t h e p e o pl e, b u y t he eq ui pment, d o the dril l , and t hen go t o
W a sh i n g to n to see i f w e can’t ge t— what I t h ink i s a f edera l
o b li g a t io n—fu l fil le d, an d have t he m pa y fo r it.

T h e p r o bl em i s , t he fe de ral go ve rn ment has the p ol icy of

n e ve r p ay ing f or so met hi ng tha t yo u’ve alr e ady b ou ght . An d
a l so , t he fed e ral g ove rn ment h as a pol icy o f nev er pa ying
f o r o p e ra ting exp en ses . If yo u wa nt t o ke e p us sa fe,
e q ui p m e nt ’s g r eat . I am a big b el ieve r in techn ol ogy from
m y p r i v at e da y s a nd fr om what we ’v e be en a b le to d o i n the
c i ty . Bu t in the e nd, e ducati on i s pu ttin g a br il lia nt,
w e ll - t r ai ned t eac he r w ho cares , in fro nt o f a ki d. P olici ng
i s p u t t in g a p oli ce of fi cer th er e, boo ts o n the gr oun d, or
f i re f i g ht ers, wel l- tra in ed, gr ea t equi pmen t ; but y ou need
t h e f i r ef ight e rs.

A n d s o we ’ve g one a nd do ne the se t hing s in advan ce an d the

f e de r a l g over n men t— it’ s very d if fi cult to g et so me fu nds—

C O MM . R O EM ER: [In te rpo si ng] Ma yo r, is ther e some th ing on

i n te r o p er abil i ty th at yo u woul d bu y th at y o u don ’t ha ve, a t
t h is p o in t?

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: W e t es t agai n, a nd a gain , and ag ain . We

h a ve a n O ffic e of E mer ge ncy Ma na ge ment run by Co mm iss ioner
J o e B r u no , wh o , a lo ng wi th Com mi ss ione r Ke l ly an d
C o mm i s s io ner S cop pe tta [ phonet ic ], of our f ire d ep art ment.
W e t r a i n and w e t es t—y ou ’ll se e th em o n Sa t urday m orn ings,
y o u’ l l se e th e m i n the m iddle of t he n ight . We ha ve
t a bl e t o p exer c ise s, we m arshal e qu ipme nt, w e mak e sur e our
r a di o s ar e to t all y int er operab le . The kin d of s te ps you
w a nt — y o u don’ t wa nt ev er y fire fi gh ter talk i ng to e ver y
p o li c e of fice r .

O n e o f th e pr o ble ms wi th infor ma ti on i s no t havi ng to o muc h

i n fo r m a ti on. If ev ery bo dy’s t al ki ng, nobo d y can g et
t h ro u g h , and w e’v e had p roblem s wi th t hat a s wel l,
i n ci d e n ta lly. An d we co nstant ly l earn eve r y day , eve ry ti me
t h er e ’ s a mis t ake , eve ry time th er e’s a tr a gedy, w e w rite— we
d o a n e xt ensi v e e va lua ti on of wh at we did a nd ho w we could
h a ve d o ne it b ett er . An d one of t he r ecom m endat io ns out o f
t h is t e rr ible tra ge dy we had i n th e De utsc h e Ban k bui lding
w h er e t wo fir e fig ht ers w ere ki ll ed , wa s to o many p eop le we re
t a lk i n g o n a r adi o at th e same t im e.

B u t w e do hav e , w ha t w e think ar e all of t h e app ro pri ate

c o mm u n i ca tion dev ic es an d one of t he t hing s we’v e don e is,
i n a d v a nc e—we hav e som et hing c al le d, S IMSA Situa ti on
M a na g e m en t, w h ere w e h av e, in ad va nce— and i t was
c o nt r o v er sial and w e g ot beate n up all the time an d e very
u n io n f ig hts b eca us e t he y want t o expa nd t h eir t er rit ory,
a n d e v e ry com m iss io ner f ights fo r thei r gr o up—bu t we have
e x ac t l y s peci f ied i n a dv ance w ho ’s res pons i ble i n eve ry
s i ng l e si tuat i on th at we can i ma gi ne.

A n d t h e n we h a ve th e s en ior st af fs of all o f the a gen cies

w o rk t o ge ther so th ey’ re frien ds , on a fir s t-nam e bas is.
A n d t h e j ealo u sie s tha t normal ly i n th e go v ernme nt al world
o f d i f f er ent f und in g s tr eams a nd d iffe rent polit ic al lines ,
d o es n ’ t r eall y ex is t. O ur fir ef ig hter s an d poli ce of ficer s
w o rk t o ge ther . T he y s ho w up h un dr eds of t i mes a d ay at th e
s a me — t o ge ther . A nd wh en ever w e ha ve—s ince we’ve p ut that
i n , I d on ’t t h ink t her e’ s one ca se whe re t h ere’s r eal ly be en
a di s a g re emen t , a nd if t here h as b een, we w orked i t o ut
r i gh t a wa y an d ma de su re that it d oesn ’t h a ppen ag ain .

C O MM . R OE MER: Th an k y ou , Mayo r.

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: T han k you.

C O MM . R OE MER: I’ ll fo ll ow up on t he i nfor m ation s har ing

w i th C o mm issi o ner K ell y.

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: G ood .

C O MM . R OE MER: Th an k y ou .

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: T han k you, T im .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: S tev e.

C O MM . R AD EMAK E R: T han k you, M r. M ayor , fo r your e xce llent

t e st i m o ny . A n d I ’m su re all m y fe llow com m issio ne rs join me
i n c o m m en ding you a nd th e poli ce o ffic ers a nd th e fir st
r e sp o n d er s wh o wo rk un de r you, f or the out s tandi ng jo b
t h ey ’ v e d one s inc e 9/1 1.

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: I pr ef er to re fe r to the m as f ir st
p r ev e n t er s, b e cau se in t he end , th at i s th e job. But , yes ,
t h ey a r e grea t re sp ond er s.

C O MM . R AD EMAK E R: I ’ll a ccept th at cor rect i on, h ap pil y. T he

E n er g y De part m ent h as a progra m to sto p il l icit tr ans fers of
n u cl e a r m ater i al ac ros s intern at io nal bord e rs, i n pla ces
l i ke G e or gia a nd Ka zak hs tan. Th ey cal l it the F ir st Line of
D e fe n s e . And as I sit h ere an d li sten to y our t es tim ony,
I ’ m s t r uc k by the f act t hat yo u an d th ose f irst pr eve nters ,
h e re i n N ew Y o rk Ci ty, a re the l as t li ne o f defe ns e. And
b e tw e e n t hat F irs t Lin e of Def en se and the last li ne of
d e fe n s e , we h a ve ot her l ines o f de fens e. A nd mo st of thos e
l i ne s o f defe n se ar e t he respo ns ib ilit y of the f ed era l
g o ve r n m en t or int er nat io nal pa rt ne rs, and w e sin ce rel y hop e
t h at w e s ucce e d a t tho se vario us l ines of d efens e, in
p r ev e n t in g an y us e of we apons of m ass dest r uctio n by
t e rr o r i st s, h e re in Ne w York, or a nywh ere e lse i n the worl d.

B u t if t h ose o the r lines of d efen se f a il, t he n i t fal ls

t o y o u an d th e se fi rst p revent er s. An d my main qu est ion t o
y o u i s wh at d o yo u see a s the pr in cipl e—wh a t do yo u n eed
m o st , f ro m th e fe de ral g overnm en t, to succ e ed he re , a t the
l a st l i ne of d efe ns e? Y ou’ve ta lk ed a bout money , and I’m
s u re t h at ’s p a rt of it , but is t he re m ore t o it th at you
n e ed —

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: [ Int er posing ] Mo ney just helps u s d o our

l e ve l . A nd y o u’r e rig ht , it’s t he las t li n e of de fen se; i t
w o ul d b e grea t if i t n ev er got t o us. And I thi nk th at on e
o f t h e th ings tha t is mo st wor ri so me, when we ta lk ab out
k e ep i n g w eapo n s o f mas s destru ct io n ou t of this co unt ry, w e
h a ve f a il ed a b ysm al ly at keepi ng d rugs out of th is co untry .
D r ug s a re one of th e m ai n prob le ms tha t ev e ry ci ty ha s—
s o ci e t y h as—t h rou gh out t he wor ld , and we h a ve a po rou s
b o rd e r th at d e fie s des cr iption .

O u r i m m ig rati o n p ol ici es , whic h I’ ve c onti n ually c rit icize d,

d o n’ t l et us p ick w ho co mes he re , and we c e rtain ly do n’t
h a ve e n ou gh v i sas t o b ri ng in th e peop le t h at we n eed to
k e ep o u r econ o my go ing a nd kee p sc ienc e he r e. B ut ,
b a si c a l ly , pe o ple t hat c ome he re c ome acro s s por ou s b order s.

G u ns i n t he s t ree t in th e hand s of cri mina l s. C on gre ss ha s

p a ss e d la ws t h at pr eve nt crimi na ls fro m ha v ing g un s, and
y e t, t h ey are ver y eas y for cr im in als to g e t and o ur kids to
g e t, a n d sadl y , t he mu rd er rat e ac ross thi s coun tr y i s
t e rr i b l e. Ev e n i n the m ost sa fe c itie s, l i ke Ne w Yor k,
w h ic h i s 15 th safest city out of 250 cities of 100,000 population
or more, we still have a murder rate ten-times what you’d see in
Europe.

S o y o u go int o th is , t hi nking it ’s ver y ha r d, an d if we

c a n’ t d o it i n so me ar ea s, why d o we t hink we ca n do it in
o t he r s . Nucl e ar we apo ns do ha ve t he a dvan t age t ha t
t e ch n o l og y ma y ve ry we ll be ab le t o sp ot s o methi ng em ittin g
r a di a t i on , al t hou gh if y ou enc as e it i n le a d, th er e’s no
r a di a t i on . A n d I t hin k we sho ul d step bac k and sa y a t a
f e de r a l l evel , wh y is th e oper at io ns o f go v ernme nt so poor
t h at w e c an’t do th e b as ic thi ng s that we n eed i n
c o nt r o l li ng o u r b or der s?

W e s p e n d an e n orm ou s a mo unt of m on ey. Som e times , I t hink

y o u c a n a rgue tha t mon ey is th e ro ot o f, n o t all e vil , but
t h e r o o t of i n eff ic ien cy , when e ve ry t ime t here’ s a p roble m
y o u t h r ow mor e mo ne y a t the pr ob le m. Ther e is n ev er an
i n ce n t i ve to c ut th e p ro grams th at don ’t w o rk, o r to deman d
a c co u n t ab ilit y . We tr ie d that w it h ed ucat i on, w he re we
t h ro w d ol lars and d on’ t raise st an dard s. W e try t hat
t h ro u g h ou t th i s c ou ntr y.

L e gi s l a to rs b a sic al ly ca n vote m on ey, that ’ s wha t the y do.

A n d w e sh ould do a bet te r job of h oldi ng e a ch ag en cy
r e sp o n s ib le. Tha t’ s m or e an e xe cu tive bra n ch fu nc tio n. W e
t r y t o do it a t t he ci ty level , ou r go vern o r tri es to do i t
a t t h e st ate l eve l, ou r presid en t trie s to do it a t f edera l
l e ve l . B ut I can ’t gi ve you a g re at d eal o f com fo rt to sa y
t h at I ’ m conf i den t the f ederal g ov ernm ent w ill b e abl e to
k e ep w e ap ons o f m as s d es tructi on f rom ente r ing.

D o y o u wa nt t o kn ow wh at they sh ou ld b e do i ng an d how to
s t op i t ? You sta rt ou t overse as —

C O MM . R AD EMAK E R: M y r ea l ques ti on is what can t he y d o to

h e lp y o u succ e ed he re at the l as t line of d efens e?

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: O ver se as, yo u id enti fy w h ere t he so urces

a r e. Y ou bui l d r el ati on s—I su pp os e th at’s the C IA ’s job—
o v er s e a s, and try t o s to p it a t it s so urce . You f ind out
w h o h a s p lans to st eal a nucle ar w eapo n fr o m an un gua rded
s u pp l y fr om t h e C ol d W ar , have , as par t of the i nt ell igenc e
e f fo r t , d evel o ped r ela ti ons am on g the ship p ing c om mun ities .
N o ne o f t hese thi ng s c an be do ne b y th emse l ves. T hey
r e qu i r e l arge num be rs of peopl e. When you have la rge
n u mb e r s o f pe o ple , inv ar iably, t he re a re l e aks. Y ou just
h a ve t o b e in t ell ig ent e nough to l iste n.

K e ep in m ind , if yo u go b ac k to s even - years f rom

t o mo r r o w, we d id ha ve pe ople w ho w ent and l earne d how to f ly
a i rp l a n es and sai d I d on ’t nee d to lea rn h o w to la nd it. I
m e an t h er e wa s a lo t o f intell ig en ce t hen, about p ote ntial
t h re a t s , and y et no bod y listen ed . And tha t ’s—I ge t b ack t o—
t e ch n o l og y is won de rfu l and yo u ce rtai nly w ant t o use it,
b u t i t re quir e s b oo ts on the g ro un d, s peak i ng th e lan guage .
T h e n u m be r of for ei gn la nguage s pe aker s in our f ed era l
s e cu r i t y agen c ies i s a bo minabl y lo w. They could n’ t p ossib ly
— A l- Q a e da cou l d p ub lis h papers s ay ing we’r e goin g to attac k
a n d t h e y woul d n’t k now a bout i t, b ecau se t h ey ca n’ t r ead i t.

W e ’v e t ri ed t o so lv e t ha t prob le m here , an d I’m no t

s u gg e s t in g it ’ s e as y. I ’ve be en t akin g Sp a nish le sso ns fo r
f i ve - y e ar s an d yo u ask m e to t el l whet her— t here’ s two guys ,
o n e w i t h a gu n , o ne on t he gro un d— I ca n’t f igure o ut which
i s w h i c h. Bu t th at ’s wh at the y’ ve got to d o.

A n d s o it ’s d e vel op ing i ntelli ge nc e ov erse a s and w ork ing

w i th f o re ign g ove rn men ts ; our re la tion ship s with f ore ign
g o ve r n m en ts i s cr it ica l. Some ti me s we hav e elec te d
o f fi c i a ls , or pot en tia l electe d of fici als, who a re
c a mp a i g ni ng o n cl os ing o ur bor de rs . T he l a st th in g w e wan t
t o d o i s cut o ff a sup pl y of f or ei gn l angu a ge sp ea ker s and
p e op l e fr om a r oun d the w orld w ho c an h elp u s fig ht
t e rr o r i sm , wh o kn ow s w ha t goes o n in t he o l d cou nt ry.

I t i s a bs olut e ly cr iti ca l that w e keep our trade a gre ement s

g o in g , be caus e ot he rwi se we’re n ot goi ng t o be a bl e t o use
t h e o t h er gov e rnm en ts to help us . And we c an’t ha ve the
k i nd o f i ntel l ige nc e n et work w e ne ed, in s o mebod y els e’s
c o un t r y . We n eed t he ot her co un tr y to hel p us.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: S tev e. Than k yo u ve ry m u ch, S te ve. We’ re

o n ly g o in g to hav e tim e for on e qu esti on f r om th e bal ance of
t h e c o m mi ssio n ers , Com mi ssione r Am bass ador , Wend y She rman.
W e nd y .

C O MM . A MB . SH E RMA N: G oo d morn in g, Mr. May o r, an d tha nk yo u

f o r y o u r exce l len t tes ti mony. I w ant to p u sh on s ome thing
t h at C o ng ress m an Ro eme r raised , an d th at i s talk in g t o the
A m er i c a n publ i c, wh ich y ou do ve ry for cefu l ly, e lo que ntly,
a n d i n a comm o n s en se, s traigh tf or ward way .

T o mo r r o w, the wor ld ’s at tentio n wi ll b e ba c k on Ne w Y ork a nd

W a sh i n g to n DC , as w e m ar k seve n- ye ars of 9 / 11. Ma ny peopl e
w o ul d s ay tha t th e cou nt ry has b ec ome comp l acent , tha t the y
d o n’ t s ee thi s , r ea lly , as a t hr ea t. They feel te rri bly a nd
h o rr i b l y for t he tr age dy of se ve n- year s ag o , but i n a grea t
d e al o f t he c o unt ry , a nd here in N ew Y ork, and i n Was hingt on
a s w e l l , peop l e a re wo rr ied ab ou t whet her t hey c an ho ld on
t o t h e i r hous e , w he the r they c an g et t heir kids to sc hool,
w h et h e r t hey c an ge t r id of th e cr ime in t h eir b ac kya rds, or
t h e d r u g use o f t he ir ki ds. T he y’ re w orri e d abo ut wh ether
t h ey ’ l l e ver b e a bl e t o take a v ac atio n ag a in, b ec aus e
a i rl i n e t rave l is s o d if ficult , in par t be c ause of ex tra
s e cu r i t y and t he co st of oil.

S o h o w do you spe ak , n ot only to N ew Y orke r s, to mo rro w and

t h e d a y s ahea d , b ut to t he res t of the cou n try, ab out wher e
t h is t h re at s t and s. I n the mi ds t of e very t hing el se that
A m er i c a ns hav e to d eal w ith, w ha t role the y shou ld ta ke,
w h et h e r t hey s hou ld pu t up wit h ra ndom bag check s, wh ether
t h ey s h ou ld c o nti nu e t o unders ta nd why the y can’ t hav e
l i qu i d s a t th e ai rp ort s, and h av e to g o th r ough ev en more
i n te n s e s earc h es.

H o w d o yo u ta l k t o the A merica n pu blic abo u t the r eal ity o f

t h is t h re at, h ow, a s S en ator T al en t sa id, i s thi s lar ge bu t
n o t t h i s larg e , h ow th ey shoul d en gage in i t, ho w the y
s h ou l d pa rtic i pat e and w hether i t’ s re al i n the br ead th of
e v er y t h in g th e y h av e t o deal w it h in t heir lives .
M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: A mba ss ador, I th ink you a ccura te ly
d e sc r i b ed nor m al hu man b ehavio r. The furt h er aw ay we get,
t h e l e s s we r e mem be r, an d ther e ar e al ways new t hi ngs that
k e ep u s g oing . A nd in t he end , fo r th e av e rage pe rso n,
t h er e ’ s o nly t wo th ing s they c ar e abou t, h o using a nd jobs;
m y h o u s e, my j ob. Tha t’ s the re al wor ld.

B u t t h a t’ s wh a t w e hav e govern me nt for . T h at’s wh at we ha ve

l e ad e r s hi p fo r . It is t he gov er nm ent’ s jo b not to fi nd ou t
w h at p e op le a r e t hi nki ng about a nd the n pa n der t o the m.
I t ’s t h e gove r nme nt ’s jo b to f in d out what peopl e sho uld b e
t h in k i n g abou t an d to le ad the m in tha t di r ectio n. T hat’s
w h at w e a re s a dly l ack in g in t hi s coun try.

Y o u h a v e to b e ab le to e xplain t o the publ i c why t hey shou ld

t a ke m o ne y ou t of t hei r pocket s, w hich the y woul d lik e to
u s e t o im prov e th ei r q ua lity o f li fe, and m ake l on g-t erm
i n ve s t m en ts, w het he r i t’ s infr as tr uctu re, o r in se cur ity, or
i n t h e ki nd o f in ve stm en t in e du ca tion , ev e n if th ey don’t
h a ve c h il dren in pu bli c school s. And ther e ’s no e asy
a n sw e r , o ther tha n tha t word l ea di ng f rom t he fr on t,
l e ad e r s hi p.

I t ’s t h e pres i den t’ s j ob to do i t. I thin k it i s con gress ’

j o b t o do it, it’ s the g overno r’ s job, and the l oc al
l e gi s l a to rs, a nd ma yor ’s job, an d ther e ar e peop le do ing i t.
I th i n k , you k now , you l ook ar ou nd thi s co u ntry— Ed Re ndell ,
g o ve r n o r of P e nns yl van ia , and Ar no ld S chwa r zeneg ge r—a nd I’ m
t h ri l l e d to b e jo in ing w ith th em t o wo rk o n infr as tru cture .

N o bo d y wa nts t o g o and r aise t he ir tax es t o buil d a s ewage

t r ea t m e nt pla n t, or to b uild a no th er w ater tunne l, or to
w o rk o n a com p ute r sys te m that w ou ld m ake a irlin e tra vel b e
m o re e f fi cien t . An d y et , we a ll c ompl ain w hen t he se wers
b a ck u p a nd t h e w at er is n’t th er e for our c rops, o r o ur
f a ct o r i es —or m ayb e dow n the ro ad —t o dr ink, or wh en we get
t i ed u p a t th e ai rp ort .

I do n ’ t t hink the re ’s an y easy s ol utio n. I don’ t thi nk th at

t h e p u b li c re a lly h as a proble m wi th t hing s like b ag
s e ar c h e s; I t h ink t he pu blic d oe s unde rsta n d. A nd th e
l e ad e r s hi p re q uir ed to g et the m to go thro u gh th e che ckpoi nt
a n d n o t f ind i t s o off en sive, is b alan ced b y the f act that
i n t h e en d, t h ey mo stl y see th at a s, y ou’r e doin g som ethin g
f o r t h e m; you ’ re pr ote ct ing th em . So they almos t wan t it.
I t ’s a n no ying , bu t the y’ ll liv e wi th i t.

B u t t h e b ig p r obl em is t he inv es tm ents in t he lo ng -te rm

t h in g s , a nd t h ere a re th ose wh o say so mebod y els e sho uld d o
it. T h er e ar e th os e t ha t say we ll , it ’s n o t nec es sar y now .
T h e f a c t that you d idn ’t die y es te rday , do e sn’t me an you
s h ou l d n ’t hav e ha d a l if e insu ra nc e po licy . And w e’v e got
t o m a k e s ure o ur sc hoo ls are g oo d enou gh s o that p eop le
c o mi n g ou t of sch oo l u nd erstan d th at.

A n d w e ’ ve got to ma ke su re our l ea ders are wise en oug h and

h a ve t h e cour a ge to st an d up a nd d eliv er t h e bad n ews that
y o u h a v e to m a ke lo ng- te rm inv es tm ents , th a t you h ave to p ay
f o r t h e m; tha t th e pay ba ck may n ev er c ome, or ma y com e to
f u tu r e ge nera t ion s whe n you’re n ot goi ng t o be a ro und ; and
t h at t h er e ar e ei th er/ or choic es t hat we h a ve to m ake .

I ha v e ri led c ont in uou sl y, for t he las t ye a r, on t he

p r es i d e nt ial c and id ate s. Ever yb od y’s in f a vor o f mot herho od
a n d a p p le pie , bu t nob od y’s wi ll in g to say how t he y w ould
d e li v e r i t, w h o’s g oin g to pay f or it, and as im po rta ntly,
w h at o t he r th i ngs w e c an ’t hav e be caus e we have mo the rhood
a n d a p p le pie .

A n d s o I thin k , y ou kn ow , the pr ob lem is u s and go ver nment ,

t h at w e ’r e no t wi ll ing t o do t ha t. Wh ethe r it’s b eca use
w e ’v e b ec ome s o p ar tis an , whet he r beca use w e’ve be com e so
s e lf i s h , I ca n ’t gi ve an answe r to tha t. B ut I th ink it’s
i n cu m b e nt on t he vo ter s to try t o elec t pe o ple t ha t w ill d o
t h at , a nd tha t ’s no t j us t at a f ed eral lev e l, an d not just
t h e e x e cu tive bra nc h, it is al l th roug h go v ernme nt . There ’s
n o s e c r et s he r e; we ’ve h ad eno ug h thin k ta n ks; w e hav e
e n ou g h id eas; we ne ed to imple me nt the m an d we n ee d l eader s.

A n d t a k in g a p oll a nd de ciding w he re y ou s t and i s not what

l e ad e r s hi p’s a ll ab out . It’s no t what bui l t thi s cou ntry
a n d I a m a bi g be li eve r that t he b est days for A me ric a are
i n f r o n t of u s . It wo ul d be s ad , howe ver, wheth er it take s
t r ag e d i es to g et us to p ut our se lv es i n th a t pos it ion .
T h er e ’ s t he o l d s to ry th at you s ho uld lear n by e xp eri ence,
b u t y o u s houl d n’t e xpe ri ence e ve ry thin g; y o u sho ul d l earn by
o t he r p eo ple’ s ex pe rie nc e.

A n d y o u ’r e go i ng to se e tomorr ow , when we a re do wn be low,

b u il d i n g a me m ori al , i t’ s to r em em ber thos e we l os t a nd to
g i ve t h ei r fa m ili es so me solac e. But it’s mainl y as a
l e ss o n in stru c tio n for t hose i n th e fu ture . Thi s is what
h a pp e n e d here ; it c oul d happen a ga in. Dem o cracy i s f ragil e;
w e d i d n ’t pay att en tio n.

A n d w e ca n si t ar ou nd an d look f or who was respo ns ibl e. W e

a l l k n o w that the g ove rn ment p ro ce ss i s no t goin g to do
t h at . An d I, per so nal ly , don’ t ev en t hink it’s te rri bly
v a lu a b l e. I j ust t hin k we sho ul d say what we di d wro ng
r e ga r d l es s of who d id it and m ak e sure tha t we d on ’t do th at
a g ai n ; an d th a t w e are f orward t hi nkin g en o ugh t o con stant ly
q u es t i o n ever y thi ng we d o and se e if t here aren’ t bet ter
w a ys t o d o an y thi ng , e ve n if i t co sts mone y , eve n if it
c o st s j ob s, e v en if it m oves p ro gr ams from one a re a t o
a n ot h e r . Tha n k y ou ve ry much fo r havi ng m e .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: M r. Ma yor, I t ha nk y ou v e ry mu ch an d if I
c o ul d s ay , I t hin k you a re a g en ui nely wis e man. And you
h a ve i n fo rmed us an d I t hink t he A meri can p eople a re about
t h e c h a ra cter of th e c ha llenge s an d th e ch a racte r of the
l e ad e r s hi p th a t w il l b e necess ar y to c onfr o nt th os e
c h al l e n ge s. B ut th e g oo d news , as you say , is t ha t i t is
s o me t h i ng wit h in ou r h an ds and w it hin our c apabi li tie s to
do.

M A YO R B LO OMBE R G: S ena to r, tha nk y ou. If I coul d con vince

m y d a u g ht ers t hat I wa s wise, I’ d be i n gr e at sh ap e. Than k
y o u.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: O ur ne xt pan el o n th e nu c lear th rea t,

S e na t o r S am N u nn. Sen at or Nun n, a sen ior m ember o f t he
U n it e d St ates Sen at e, wh o is n ow c o-ch airi n g and i s t he
C h ie f E xe cuti v e O ff ice r of the N uc lear Thr e at In it iat ive,
a n d o n e o f th e mo st ar ti culate v oi ces on t h e iss ue of
n u cl e a r t hrea t ; a nd Dr . Matthe w Bu nn, an a s socia te pr ofess or
a t t h e Ke nned y Sc ho ol of Gover nm en t, a t Ha r vard. Dr. Bunn
i s t h e co -pri n cip le in ve stigat or o f th e Pr o ject on Ma nagin g
t h e A t o m, and iss ue s a n annual r ep ort on h o w wel l our nati on
i s d o i n g in r e str ai nin g the nu cl ea r th reat . We ar e v ery
f o rt u n a te to h ave t hes e two ge nt le men.

A g ai n , as we h ad wi th Ma yor Bl oo mb erg, we w ill h av e t wo le ad

q u es t i o ne rs a n d t ho se wi ll be Co mm issi oner Graha m All ison
a n d C o m mi ssio n er He nry S okolsk i. Sena tor N unn.

S E NA T O R N UNN: Mr . Cha ir man. Th an k yo u ve r y muc h, Se nator

G r ah a m an d Se n ato r Tal en t, and m em bers of t he co mm iss ion. I
k n ow h o w much tim e, en er gy, an d ef fort it t akes to be on a
c o mm i s s io n li k e t hi s a nd to sp en d the numb e r of ho urs , bot h
p r ep a r i ng and wri ti ng th e repo rt , and then advoc at ing the
r e po r t . So I tha nk ea ch of yo u. I th ink e ach a nd ev ery o ne
i n A m e r ic a sh o uld b e g ra teful to y ou f or t h e tim e and the
e f fo r t yo u ar e ma ki ng on this im po rtan t su b ject.

I ’ m p l e as ed t o of fe r y ou my se ns e of t he n u clear d ang ers w e

f a ce , a nd als o so me of t he thi ng s I th ink t hat a re
i m pe r a t iv e th a t w e do to addre ss t hem. An y soun d str ategy
o f n a t i on al d e fen se mu st be bu il t arou nd a n effo rt to redu ce
t h e g r e at est t hre at s, an d cert ai nl y, t he n u clear a nd the
b i ol o g i ca l, i n my v iew , are bo th i n th at c a tegor y. T his
r e qu i r e s not j ust u nde rs tandin g th at t he g r eates t thr eat w e
f a ce i s a nuc l ear a tta ck , but al so und erst a nding t he many
w a ys i n w hich a n uc lea r attack m ay com e ab o ut, a nd th e
t r en d s th at i n cre as e t he likel ih oo d of tha t kind o f a ttack .

I gu e s s I ’m m o tiv at ed by conti nu in g to ask mysel f two

q u es t i o ns . W h at is it a fter t he d ay a fter a maj or at tack on
a n A m e r ic an c i ty, a bo mb going o ff in an A m erica n cit y.
W h at i s i t we wou ld wi sh we ha d do ne t o pr e vent it ? And t he
s e co n d qu esti o n i s, wh y aren’t w e doin g th o se th in gs now? I
t h in k t ha t ba s ica ll y s um marize s my mot ivat i on, b ec aus e we
c a n a l l i magi n e t he da y after, b ut we some h ow do n’ t s eem t o
b e a b l e t o mu s ter r eal s erious n at iona l ef f orts an d
i n te r n a ti onal eff or ts, u ntil w e’ ve had the crisi s. I n the
c a se o f n ucle a r, I thi nk we’ve g ot to chan g e tha t his toric al
t r ut h .

W e h a v e i mpor t ant e ffo rt s unde rw ay to redu c e nuc le ar dange rs

a n d w e ha ve, I th in k, a number o f impo rtan t succ es ses . It ’s
i m po r t a nt not to ov erl oo k the su cc esse s, a n d we ha ve had
s o me . Ma tt B u nn is th e real e xp er t on bot h what w e’v e
a c hi e v e d and w hat i s y et to be d on e. So y o u can c ert ainly
p r ob e t ha t wi t h h im . I won’t go i nto the s ucces se s t oday,
b u t t h e re are som e.

B u t t h e r isk o f a n ucl ea r weap on b eing use d toda y, in my

v i ew , i s grow i ng an d n ot reced in g, and the storm c lou ds ar e
g a th e r i ng for sev er al re asons. Fi rst, ter r orist s are
c l ea r l y s eeki n g n uc lea r weapon s. Ther e ca n be l it tle doub t
t h at i f t hey a cqu ir e a w eapon, t he y wi ll u s e it. The se ar e
n o t p e o pl e se e kin g wea po ns for d et erre nts, they ar e s eekin g
w e ap o n s f or u s e.

T h er e a re nuc l ear w eap on s mate ri al s in mor e than 4 0

c o un t r i es , an d at t he cu rrent pa ce it will be de ca des befo re
t h is m a te rial is ad equ at ely se cu re d or eli m inate d, gl oball y.
R u ss i a ha s th e gr ea tes t quanti ty o f nu clea r weap on s a s wel l
a s m a t e ri als, but P aki st an, in m y view , is the g re ate st
d a ng e r , b ecau s e o f the g reat i ns ta bili ty i n that c oun try.
T h e k n o w- how a nd ex per ti se to bu il d nu clea r weap on s i s far
m o re a v ai labl e to da y, be cause of a n ex plos i on of i nfo rmati on
a n d a n ex plos i on of nu cl ear co mm er ce t hrou g hout th e w orld.

T h e n u m be r of nuc le ar we apon s ta te s is inc r easin g, as we a ll

k n ow . A worl d wi th 12 t o 20 n uc le ar w eapo n s sta te s w ill b e
i m me a s u ra ble m ore d ang er ous th an t oday ’s w o rld, an d m ake i t
m o re l i ke ly t h at we apo ns , or m at er ials to m ake t he m, will
f a ll i n to the han ds of t errori st s with no r eturn a ddr ess.

W i th t h e grow i ng in ter es t in n uc le ar e nerg y , a n um ber of

c o un t r i es are con si der in g deve lo pi ng t he c a pacit y to enric h
u r an i u m t o us e as f uel f or nuc le ar ene rgy, but t hi s w ould
a l so g i ve the m th e cap ac ity to m ov e qu ickl y to a n ucl ear
w e ap o n s p rogr a m i f the y choose t o do s o. S o rig ht at the
t o p o f th e ag e nda , in my view, i n the next few y ea rs has t o
b e s t o p pi ng t h e e me rgi ng proli fe ra tion of e nrich me nt, whic h
i s c o m i ng fas t an d fur io us. N ot j ust Iran ; Iran i s t he le ad
e d ge , b ut als o a nu mbe r of oth er c ount ries on th e wai ting
l i st . An d th e y’r e not w aiting l on g.

M e an w h i le , th e Un it ed St ates a nd R ussi a co n tinue t o d eploy

t h ou s a n ds of n ucl ea r w ea pons o n ba llis tic m issil es th at ca n
h i t t h e ir tar g ets i n l es s than 3 0- minu tes, encou ra gin g bot h
s i de s t o cont i nue a pr om pt lau nc h capa bili t y tha t car ries
w i th i t a n in c rea si ngl y unacce pt ab le r isk o f an ac cid ental ,
m i st a k e n, or u nau th ori ze d laun ch . Tho ugh w e are c ert ainly
n o t a p p ro achi n g t he co nf rontat io na l nu clea r dang er s o f the
C o ld W a r era, any m ili ta ry ten si on s be twee n the Un ite d
S t at e s an d Ru s sia , as we ’ve se en r ecen tly, incre as e t he ri sk
o f a c c i de nts o r m is tak es .

T h e b o t to m li n e, th e w or ld is he ad ing in a very da nge rous

d i re c t i on , bo t h l ea der s and ci ti ze ns h ere a nd ab ro ad must
r e fl e c t o n wh a t i s at st ake. If A l-Qa eda h ad hi t the Trad e
T o we r s wi th a sma ll , c ru de, nu cl ea r we apon , inst ea d o f two
a i rp l a n es , a f ire ba ll wo uld ha ve v apor ized every th ing in t he
v i ci n i t y. Lo w er Ma nha tt an and t he fin anci a l dis tr ict woul d
h a ve b e en ash and r ubb le .

T e ns o f t hous a nds o f p eo ple wo ul d have bee n kill ed

i n st a n t ly . T h ose w ho su rvived w ou ld h ave b een l ef t w ith n o
s h el t e r , no c l ean w ate r, no sa fe f ood, and very li ttl e
m e di c a l a tten t ion . Te le commun ic at ions , ut i litie s,
t r an s p o rt atio n , a nd re sc ue ser vi ce s wo uld b e thr ow n i nto
c h ao s . T hat w oul d hav e been j us t the phys i cal i mp act .

I f y o u we re t r yin g to dr aw a c ir cl e to mar k the ov era ll

i m pa c t of the bla st , i n social , ec onom ic, a nd se cu rit y
t e rm s , th e ci r cle w oul d be the e qu ator its e lf. No pa rt of
t h e p l a ne t wo u ld es cap e the im pa ct . P eopl e ever yw her e wou ld
f e ar a n ot her b las t. T er rorist g ro ups ever y where w oul d cla im
t h ey h a d a we a pon a nd tr y to e xt or t th at o p portu ni ty.

T r av e l , i nter n ati on al tr ade, c ap it al f lows , and co mme rce

w o ul d i ni tial l y s to p, an d many f re edom s we have co me to ta ke
f o r g r a nt ed w o uld q uic kl y be e ro de d in the name of se curit y.
T h e c o n fi denc e of A mer ic a and th e worl d wo u ld be s hak en to
t h e c o r e, and cer ta inl y, our e co no mic syst e m wou ld su ffer
i m me n s e ly . T h ese d ang er s are th re ats that every c oun try
f a ce s ; no cou n try c an de feat o n it s ow n. W e are i n a race ,
M r . C h a ir man, bet we en co operat io n and cata s troph e.

W i th g r ow ing n ucl ea r d an gers l ik e thes e in mind, G eor ge

S h ul t z , B ill P err y, He nr y Kiss in ge r, a nd I , publ is hed an o p-
e d i n J an uary , 20 07 , i n the Wa ll S tree t Jo u rnal, t hat call ed
f o r a d if fere n t d ir ect io n for ou r glob al n u clear p oli cy wi th
b o th v i si on a n d s te ps to immed ia te ly b egin to re du ce nucle ar
d a ng e r s . The thr ea ts ha ve cha ng ed , we nee d new st rat egies ,
w e m u s t c hang e di re cti on to re du ce rel ianc e on n uc lea r
w e ap o n s o urse l ves , as we ll as en co urag e ot h ers t o do so an d
w e m u s t u ltim a tel y hav e a goal o f endi ng t h em as a th reat to
t h e w o r ld .

I be l i e ve tha t on e of th e best w ay s to des c ribe th e t hreat ,

a t l e a s t from my pe rsp ec tive, is t o la y ou t a fe w of the
i m pe r a t iv e st e ps th at we must ta ke to redu c e the t hre at, a nd
I ’ ll d o s o in ver y abb re viated f or m.

W e m u s t c hang e nu cl ear f orce p os tu res in t h e Uni te d S tates

a n d R u s si a, t o gr ea tly i ncreas e wa rnin g ti m e on bo th sides ,
a n d e a s e our f ing er s a wa y from t he nuc lear trigg er . We mu st
r e du c e , s ubst a nti al ly, n uclear f or ces in a l l sta te s t hat
p o ss e s s t hem. We m ust m ove to wa rd s de velo p ing c oo per ative
m u lt i l a te ral b all is tic m issile d ef ense in e arly wa rni ng
s y st e m s , whic h wi ll re du ce ten si on s ov er d e fensi ve sy stems ,
w h ic h w il l al s o h el p p re vent a r en ewed off e nsive b uil dup,
a n d e n h an ce t h e p os sib il ity of p ro gres s in other a rea s.

W e m u s t e limi n ate s hor t- range ta ct ical nuc l ear w ea pon s, a

d i ff i c u lt tas k , b ut we m ust be gi n with acc o untab il ity and
t r an s p a re ncy b etw ee n t he Unite d St ates , NA T O, an d Rus sia.
W e m u s t b ring the C omp re hensiv e Te st-b an T r eaty in to force
i n t h e Un ited Sta te s a nd other k ey sta tes. We m us t s ecure
n u cl e a r w eapo n s a nd ma te rials ar ou nd t he w o rld, to th e
h i gh e s t p ossi b le st and ar ds, as G ra ham Alli s on ha s mad e ver y,
v e ry c l ea r, o v er an d o ve r agai n, a nd c erta i nly a ll of you
a r e f a m il iar w ith h is bo ok on th e subj ect.

W e m u s t d evel o p a m ult i- nation al a ppro ach t o civ il nu clear

f u el p r od ucti o n. W e m us t phas e ou t th e us e of h ig hly
e n ri c h e d uran i um in ci vi l comm er ce , an d we must ha lt the
p r od u c t io n of fis si le ma terial s fo r we apon s . We m ust
e n ha n c e v erif i cat io n a nd enfor ce me nt c apab i litie s. W e hav e
a lo n g wa y to go he re.
W e m u s t b uild the i nte rn ationa l po liti cal w ill t o det er, a nd
w h en n e ce ssar y , t o str on gly an d ef fect ivel y resp on d t o
c o un t r i es tha t br ea ch th eir co mm it ment s. H ere i s one of o ur
b i gg e s t t asks . W e mus t redoub le o ur e ffor t s to re sol ve th e
r e gi o n a l conf r ont at ion s that i nc re ase dema n d for n ucl ear
w e ap o n s . We a ll kn ow th at’s t ru e in A sia, we kn ow it ’s tr ue
i n t h e Mi ddle Eas t, we k now it ’s t rue cont i nuall y,
u n fo r t u na tely , in E uro pe .

S o t h i s i s th e lo ng po le in th e te nt, but i t tak es co nstan t

e f fo r t on our par t and t he par t of lea ders aroun d the worl d.
E a ch o f t hese ste ps wi ll help re ve rse the s pread o f n uclea r
w e ap o n s . Eac h st ep wi ll reduc e th e us e of nucle ar us e.
E a ch s t ep wil l re qu ire a n insp ir e grea ter c ooper at ion . An d
e a ch s t ep wil l he lp bu il d a fo un da tion of c ooper at ion and
t r us t a mo ng t h e U ni ted S tates, R us sia, Chi n a, an d all
n u cl e a r w eapo n s s ta tes , as wel l as inc reas i ngly im por tant,
t h e n i n e nucl e ar we apo ns state s.

E a ch s t ep bac k war d, fo r instan ce t he r ecen t Russ ia n/G eorgi a

c o nf l i c t, as w ell a s t he lack of a ny a ppar e nt pr og res s on
U . S. / R u ss ian m iss il e d ef ense c oo pe rati on, m akes th e j ob
h a rd e r an d lo n ger , but a lso ma ke s the job e ven m or e e viden t
a n d m o r e esse n tia l.

S t ra t e g ic coo p era ti on mu st bec om e the corn e rston e of our

n a ti o n a l defe n se ag ain st nucle ar w eapo ns. This is no t
b e ca u s e c oope r ati on gi ve s us a w ar m, f uzzy feeli ng of
c o mm u n i ty , bu t be ca use e very o th er met hod w ill f ai l. I ha ve
c o nc l u d ed tha t we c ann ot defen d Am eric a wi t hout ta kin g the se
s t ep s . W e ca n not t ake t hese s te ps wit hout the c oo per ation
o f o t h e r nati o ns. We ca nnot g et t he c oope r ation o f o ther
n a ti o n s w itho u t t he vi si on and t he hop e of a wor ld th at wi ll
s o me d a y e nd t h ese w eap on s of m as s dest ruct i on as a th reat to
t h e w o r ld . A n d I ’v e c om e to t ha t view ove r a lo ng pe riod of
t i me , a nd slo w ly, b ut th at’s m y vi ew t oday .

I al s o be liev e th at th is same lo gi c ap plie s to o th er natio ns

a r ou n d th e wo r ld. The u se of a nu clea r we a pon a ny whe re,
w i ll a f fe ct e v ery n ati on every wh er e. Visi o n and a cti ons
m u st g o t oget h er. Wit ho ut the b ol d vi sion , the ac tio ns wi ll
n o t b e pe rcei v ed as fa ir or ur ge nt . W itho u t the a cti ons,
t h e v i s io n wi l l n ot be p erceiv ed a s re alis t ic or p oss ible.
T h is w i ll be a ch al len gi ng pro ce ss tha t mu s t be ac com plish ed
i n s t a g es .

T h e U n i te d St a tes m ust k eep it s nu clea r we a pons as lo ng as

o t he r n at ions do. But w e will b e safe r an d the wo rld will
b e s a f e r, if w e a re wo rk ing to wa rd the goa l of d e-
e m ph a s i zi ng n u cle ar we ap ons, k ee pi ng t hem o ut of d ang erous
h a nd s , an d ul t ima te ly ri dding th e worl d of them.

I n c l o s in g, M r . C ha irm an and S en at or T alen t , let m e g ive y ou

a qu o t e t hat I ha ve us ed a num be r of t imes but I t hin k is
w o rt h r ep eati n g, by fo rm er Pre si de nt R eaga n . Ne ar ly 20-
y e ar s a go , Pr e sid en t R ea gan as ke d an a udie n ce to i mag ine
t h at , “ al l of us di sco ve red th at w e we re t h reate ne d b y a
p o we r f ro m ou t er sp ace , from a no th er p lane t .” T he pr eside nt
t h en a s ke d, “ W oul dn ’t we come to ge ther to f ight th at
p a rt i c u la r th r eat ?” A ft er let ti ng tha t im a ge si nk in for a
m o me n t , P resi d ent R eag an came to h is p oint . “We n ow have a
w e ap o n th at c a n d es tro y the wo rl d. Wh y do n ’t we r eco gnize
t h at t h re at m o re cl ear ly , then c om e to geth e r wit h one aim in
m i nd . Ho w sa f ely , san el y, and q ui ckly , ca n we r id th e wor ld
o f t h i s g reat thr ea t t o our ci vi li zati on a n d to ou r
e x is t e n ce ?”

M r . C h a ir man, Mr. T ale nt , our ge ne rati on m u st be gi n t o

a n sw e r th at q u est io n a nd I thi nk y ou f or y o ur ro le ; v ery
i m po r t a nt .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you, s en at or. Dr. Bunn.

D R . B U N N: Th a nk yo u, Se nator Gr ah am, and a ll th e mem bers of

t h e c o m mi ssio n . I wan t to joi n Se nato r Nu n n in th ank ing y ou
f o r y o u r work on th is ve ry imp or ta nt s ubje c t. I t’ s a n hon or
t o b e h er e to d ay, t o t al k abou t wh at I thi n k are o ne of th e
m o st c r it ical thr ea ts to our n at io n’s secu r ity. I en dorse
a l l o f wh at S e nat or Nu nn said, a bo ut t he b r oader n ucl ear
t h re a t . I’m g oin g to ze ro in on t he p arti c ular th rea t of
n u cl e a r w eapo n s i n the h ands o f te rror ists .

M y m essa g e i s bas ic ally s im pl e. I th i nk th is is a re al

p o ss i b i li ty, b ut I thi nk it’s a pr even tabl e poss ib ili ty, a nd
t h er e a re act i ons t hat w e can ta ke tha t ca n dras ti cal ly
r e du c e th at r i sk. Ind ee d, the n ex t pr esid e nt, I t hin k, ha s
a n h i s t or ic o p por tu nit y, with a su stai ned l eader sh ip and a
c r ed i b l e plan , an d wit h suffic ie nt res ourc e s, I th ink that
t h e n e x t pres i den t cou ld reduc e th e ri sk o f nucl ea r
t e rr o r i sm to a fr ac tio n of its c ur rent lev e l, ev en in the
f i rs t p re side n tia l ter m.

A n d the p roo f of th e pote nt ia l fo r re d ucing t he risk, is

t h e p r o gr ess t hat ’s al re ady be in g made , as Sam m en tio ned.
T h er e a re tho u san ds of b ombs w or th of mate r ial t ha t h as be en
p e rm a n e nt ly d e str oy ed an d will n ev er a gain pose a thr eat t o
h u ma n k i nd , as par t of th e U.S. /R us sian Hig h ly En ri che d
U r an i u m P urch a se Ag ree me nt. T he re are sco r es of s ite s whe re
t h e s e c ur ity i s d em ons tr ably, ra di call y im p roved , com pared
t o w h a t i t wa s 15 -y ear s ago. Th er e ar e do z ens o f sit es th at
n o l o n g er hav e an y nuc le ar mat er ia l at tha t site , to steal .

T h es e r ep rese n t, in a ve ry rea l se nse, bom b s tha t wil l nev er

go off. And I th in k w e owe a de bt of grat i tude to al l of
t h e h u n dr eds o f m en an d women wh o have str u ggled t o m ake
t h at h a pp en.

N o ne t h e le ss, t her e rem ai n majo r ga ps i n ou r effo rt s. Ther e

i s t o d a y no b i ndi ng gl ob al sta nd ar d th at s a ys if y ou’ ve go t
a nu c l e ar wea p on or so me highl y en rich ed u r anium o r s ome
p l ut o n i um , th i s i s the m inimum t ha t yo u ha v e to se cur e it
to. M o st of t he hi ghl y enrich ed u rani um t h at th e Uni ted
S t at e s it self dis tr ibu te d to o th er cou ntri e s ove r the
d e ca d e s , we h a ve no pl an to ta ke b ack or t o othe rw ise remo ve
a n d d e s tr oy. And I co ul d go o n.

I th i n k , with all d ue re spect, M r. Cha irma n , tha t the good /

p l us r a ti ng t h at yo u o ff ered i n th e pr ess t he ot he r d ay, i s
n o t y e t j usti f ied . I ho pe tha t it wil l be justi fi ed after
t h is c o mm issi o n m ak es it s reco mm en dati ons a nd th os e
r e co m m e nd atio n s a re im pl emente d.

N o w l e t m e ta l k f or a mo ment a bo ut the fac t s tha t fra me th is

d a ng e r . Firs t , a s we’ ve heard , Al -Qae da i s seek in g n uclea r
w e ap o n s a nd h a s d on e s o, deter mi na tely , ov e r a p er iod of
y e ar s . S econ d ly, u nfo rt unatel y, r epea ted g overn me nt studi es
h a ve c o nc lude tha t if te rroris ts c ould get the r eq uis ite
n u cl e a r m ater i al, i t i s potent ia ll y wi thin the c ap abi litie s
o f a s o ph isti c ate d ter ro rist g ro up , to mak e at l ea st a
c r ud e , nu clea r bo mb .

I t ’s a ve ry d i ffe re nt th ing fr om m akin g a s afe, re lia ble,

w e ap o n th at c a n f it on a missi le o r be del i vered b y a n
a i rc r a f t, tha t a st ate w ould w an t to h ave i n it’ s ars enal.
I t ’s a ve ry m u ch si mpl er thing . A nd u nfor t unate ly , A l-
Q a ed a ’ s r econ s tit ut ion i n the mo un tain s of Pakis ta n,
i n cr e a s in g th e ri sk th at they wo ul d be abl e to m an age that
k i nd o f c ompl e x o pe rat io n.

T h ir d , so me o f th e sto ck piles of t his mate r ial r em ain

d a ng e r o us ly i n sec ur e. W e have s ee n mu ltip l e cas es of real
t h ef t o f real wea po ns us eable in n ucle ar m a teria l. T he mo st
r e ce n t si gnif i can t sei zu re was i n Geor gia, in as r ece ntly as
2 0 06 . Ev ery c oun tr y w he re the se m ater ials exist h as more to
d o t o m ak e su r e t ha t t he y are se cu re, as t h e rec en t i ncide nt
i n o u r ow n ai r fo rc e, ma ke cle ar . Mos t re c ently , amo ng
o t he r t hi ngs, in a sec ur ity in sp ec tion in M inot, a nu clear
g u ar d p la ying vid eo ga me s on h is c ell phon e whil e on duty.

B u t I t hi nk t h ree c ate go ries o f th ese stoc k piles s tan d out ,

i n m y m in d, a s po si ng th e high es t risk . F i rst, Ru ssi a;
R u ss i a ha s th e wo rl d’s l argest s to ckpi les i n the w orl d’s
l a rg e s t n umbe r of b uil di ngs an d bu nker s; s e curit y tha t has
i m pr o v e d dram a tic al ly ov er the l as t 15 -yea r s. T he re are
s t oc k p i le s th a t 1 5- yea rs ago, we re in the e quiva le nt of a
h i gh s c ho ol g y m l oc ker w ith a pa dl ock that could b e s nappe d
w i th a bo lt c u tte r fro m any ha rd wa re s tore , that a re today
i n s e c u re vau l ts be hin d heavy st ee l do ors.

N o ne t h e le ss, s ign if ica nt weakn es se s, u nder - fundi ng , p oorly

p a id , u nd er m o tiv at ed, a nd poo rl y trai ned g uards , and deep
c o rr u p t io n, r e mai n in th e Russ ia n nucl ear e stabl is hme nt.
M o st r e ce ntly , fo r exa mp le, ea rl ie r th is y e ar a co lon el in
t h e R u s si an N V D [ ph one ti c], wa s ar rest ed f o r sol ic iti ng
b r ib e s to ove r loo k vio la tions of s ecur ity r ules at th e
c l os e d nu clea r ci ty of S chneit z [p hone tic] .

C o rr u p t io n no t on ly in R ussia, b ut in Paki s tan a nd ot her

c o un t r i es aro u nd th e w or ld, is a f unda ment a l iss ue th at ha s
t o b e a dd ress e d. I t g re atly a dd s to t he d a ngers t o
s e cu r i t y.

P a ki s t a n is a n oth er to p priori ty r isk, in m y vie w. T hey

h a ve a re lati v ely s mal l stockp il e, bel ieve d to b e hea vily
g u ar d e d . But it fa ces i mmense t hr eats , bo t h fro m ins iders
w i th e x tr emis t sy mp ath ie s, and a d emon stra t ed wi ll ing ness to
s e ll p r ac tica l ly an yth in g to p ra ct ical ly a n yone, b ut also
f r om p o te ntia l ly, h uge o utside r th reat s. T his i s, af ter
a l l, A l -Q aeda ’ s w or ld he adquar te rs .

T h er e w er e at lea st tw o cases du ri ng P resi d ent M us har raf’s

[ p ho n e t ic ] re i gn, w hen s erving P ak ista ni m i litar y off icers
w o rk e d wi th A l -Qa ed a, to come wi th in a hai r ’s br ea dth of
k i ll i n g t he P a kis ta ni pr esiden t. If t he p e ople gu ard ing t he
p r es i d e nt can ’ t b e tru st ed, ho w mu ch c onfi d ence ca n w e hav e
t h at t h e peop l e g ua rdi ng the n uc le ar w eapo n s wil l not
c o op e r a te wit h Al -Q aed a in a s im il ar w ay?

F i na l l y , ther e ar e sti ll some 13 0 rese arch react or s a round

t h e w o r ld tha t us e hig hl y enri ch ed ura nium as th ei r f uel.
I n m a n y c ases , th ey ha ve almos t in cred ibly modes t sec urity
i n p l a c e. In com e cas es , lite ra ll y, a cha i n-lin k fen ce, a
n i gh t w at chma n , a nd at l east s om e case s of which I ’m aware ,
a n u n a r me d ni g ht wa tch ma n.

M u ch o f t his m ate ri al is in fo rm s that wou l d req ui re some

c h em i c a l proc e ssi ng fo r it to be u sed in a bomb, b ut it’s
n o t p r o ce ssin g th at ’s li kely t o be bey ond t he ca pa bil ities
o f a g r ou p th a t w ou ld ot herwis e be cap able of ma ki ng a
n u cl e a r b omb.

G i ve n t he se v u lne ra bil it ies, t he n ext fact that fr ame s our

d a ng e r is par t icu la rly d istres si ng , an d th a t is th at nucle ar
s m ug g l i ng is v ery d iff ic ult to s to p. The a mount o f m ateri al
t h at i s r equi r ed fo r a b omb is s ma ll. The amoun t of
r a di a t i on it r ele as es is modes t, a nd p arti c ularl y in the
c a se o f h ighl y en ri che d uraniu m, i t is eas y to s hi eld . In
p a rt i c u la r, i t ’s wo rth r emembe ri ng tha t th e dete ct ors that
w e ’r e i ns tall i ng al l o ve r the wo rl d an d at our o wn bo rders ,
w o ul d n ot be a ble t o d et ect hi gh ly enr iche d uran iu m m etal,
w i th e v en a m o des t lev el of sh ie ld ing, nor would t he
a d va n c e d spec t ros co pic p ortals t ha t ar e no w prop os ed.

T h e i m m en se l e ngt hs of o ur bor de rs , th e my r iad r ou tes

a c ro s s , a nd t h e i mm ens e legiti ma te tra ffic the g oe s a cross
t h em e v er y ye a r, al l c on spire to m ake the s muggl er ’s job
e a si e r an d ou r jo b mor e diffic ul t.

W h at , t he n, m u st we do ? It se em s to m e th e se fa ct s l ead
d i re c t l y to a n in es cap ab le con cl us ion that we ne ed to act
q u ic k l y t o se c ure n ucl ea r stoc kp il es a roun d the wo rld . I
s u bm i t t ed to t he co mmi ss ion a 12 -s tep prog r am fo r red ucing
t h e r i s k of n u cle ar te rr orism, s o I’ll be v ery b ri ef in
s u mm a r i zi ng t h at he re.

F i rs t , we nee d a br oad , integr at ed eff ort t o red uc e t he

r i sk , b ut the r e’s o ne pa rt of th at eff ort t hat r ea lly is t he
c h ok e p oi nt, a nd th at is contr ol li ng t he n u clear m ate rial
a n d m a k in g su r e t ha t t ha t does n’ t fall int o terr or ist s
h a nd s . S o th e fi rs t t hi ng we ne ed to do i s laun ch a fast-
p a ce d g lo bal c amp ai gn to lock do wn eve ry c a che o f nuc lear
w e ap o n s o f pl u ton iu m h ig hly-en ri ch ed u rani u m whe re ver it m ay
b e ; w h e th er i t ’s a ric h countr y or a p oor c ountr y. T hat
n e ed s t o be a top p rio ri ty of ou r dipl omac y , som et hin g to be
a d dr e s s ed in e ver y cou nt ry tha t ha s st ockp i les, to se cure
o u r r e s ou rces to he lp at every o pp ortu nity .

W e n e e d t o wo r k o ut ef fe ctive gl ob al s ecur i ty st an dar ds so

t h at a l l coun t rie s whe re these m at eria ls r e side, a re
c o mm i t t ed to p rot ec tin g them a ga in st t he k i nds o f thr eats
t h at t e rr oris t s a nd cr im inals ha ve sho wn t h ey ca n pos e. W e
n e ed t o d rast i cal ly ex pa nd our e ff orts to c onsol id ate thes e
n u cl e a r s tock p ile s in fe wer lo ca ti ons so t h at we c an achie ve
h i gh e r se curi t y a t low er costs . T hat mean s we n ee d a
b r oa d e r s et o f ap pr oac he s and in ce ntiv es t o conv in ce
c o un t r i es to g ive u p t he HEU, an d send it a way t o sec ured
l o ca t i o ns els e whe re , t o conver t re sear ch r e actor s tha t don ’t
u s e h i g hl y en r ich ed ur an ium an y mo re, to s h ut do wn un neede d
r e se a r c h reac t ors . We h ave no p ro gram tod a y, to g ive
u n ne e d e d rese a rch r eac to rs inc en ti ves to s h ut do wn an d all ow
t h ei r s it e ju s t t o be us ers at a no ther rea c tor, el sew here.

W e n e e d t o ra d ica ll y s te p up o ur e ffor ts t o conv in ce polic y

m a ke r s an d nu c lea r man ag ers in o th er c ount r ies a ro und the
w o rl d , th at t h is is a re al thr ea t and it’s a rea l thr eat t o
t h em , d es ervi n g o f the ir time an d reso urce s . Ma ny of them
a r e n o t c onvi n ced o f t ha t toda y. If t hey s tay u nc onv inced ,
w e a r e no t go i ng to su cc eed in t he se e ffor t s.

A n d a l l o f th i s i s goi ng to be d if ficu lt. The e as y t hings

h a ve b e en don e al re ady . There a re dee p se c recy, n ati onal
s o ve r e i gn ty, c omp la cen cy , poli ti ca l, a nd b u reauc ra tic
i m pe d i m en ts t o ge tt ing t his jo b do ne. It’ s goin g to requi re
s u st a i n ed lea d ers hi p f ro m the to p, and as w e hea rd fr om
C a ri e , th is m o rni ng , o ne of th e fi rst thin g s we ne ed to do
i s m a k e s ure t hat w e h av e some bo dy in char g e of al l o f the se
e f fo r t s t o pr e ven t nuc le ar ter ro ri sm. Som e one w ho is in a
p o si t i o n wher e th ey ha ve the p re si dent ’s e a r. I b eli eve i t
h a s t o be a D e put y Nat io nal Se cu ri ty A dvis o r in th e n ext
a d mi n i s tr atio n .

W e n e e d a com p reh en siv e plan t o ad dres s th e se th re ats that

w e t h e n m odif y as w e g o, that’ s pr iori tize d . No w we have
l o ts o f i ndiv i dua l pla ns , or d oz en s of dif f erent p rog rams,
a n d w e ne ed t o as si gn th e reso ur ce s to mak e sure t hat no
c r it i c a l prog r am th at re ally o ff er s pr omis e for re duc ing t he
r i sk o f n ucle a r t er ror is m, is sl ow ed, just becau se it
d o es n ’ t h ave e nou gh mo ne y to g et i ts j ob d o ne. An d w ith
t h at , I a polo g ize f or go ing on s o long . A n d I w il l s top a nd
a n sw e r qu esti o ns.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you, D r. B unn. Co m missi on er Graha m

A l li s o n .

C O MM . A LL ISON : T ha nk yo u very m uc h, a nd t h ank y ou bo th fo r

y o ur t i me tod a y. I t’s a great h on or, actu a lly, to ha ve th e
c h an c e to sit on th is si de of th e tabl e wi t h Sen at or Nunn,
h a vi n g ha d th e op po rtu ni ty to te st ify to h i m whe n he was
c h ai r m a n of t h e S en ate A rmed S er vi ces Comm i ttee.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: I wa s always v er y po lite and n ic e t o you .

[ L au g h t er ]. I as ke d e as y ques ti on s.

C O MM . A LL ISON : Y ou we re alway s ex trem ely n ice a nd I was

h o no r e d t o be the re , a nd I’m h on or ed t o be part of th is
t o da y . I ’m w i th my co ll eague, D r. Bun n, w h om I ag ree with ,
g r ea t l y . I w a nt to dr il l down i n two area s , whi ch ar e are as
w h er e w e’ re t r yin g to th ink ab ou t the comm i ssion ’s re port.
A n d w h a t I’m p art ic ula rl y inte re st ed i n is to ge t you r
b o tt o m - li ne j u dgm en ts. So one a re a ha s to do wi th th e
s e ri o u s ne ss o f th e thr ea t of a n uc lear 9/1 1 . He re we are a
d a y b e f or e th e an ni ver sa ry of th e 9/11 att a ck. Ho w s eriou s
i s t h e th reat of te rro ri sts li ke O sama bin Laden , get ting a
n u cl e a r b omb a nd de vas ta ting t he h eart of a grea t cit y lik e
N e w Y o r k, wit h a mu shr oo m clou d. That ’s o n e are a to drill
d o wn .

A n d seco n dly , the q uestio n wh ich is, a re we s afe r tha n

w e w e r e s even - yea rs ag o, from a nu clea r te r roris t att ack, or
a l te r n a ti vely , ar e we at great er r isk. Th a t req ui res a
c o mp l e x n et j u dgm en t. B ut let m e star t wi t h the f ist one
a n d d r i ll dow n , j us t f or a sec on d, jus t fo r your b ott om-li ne
j u dg m e n ts .

W h en Bob Gat es , t he Secre ta ry of Defe n se, i s ask ed ab out

t h is , h e says — and w e p ut this in t he f act s heet th at was
h a nd e d ou t, a n d t hi s i s in thi s ye ar—“ Ever y seni or le ader,
w h en a s ke d wh a t k ee ps yo u awak e at nig ht, h e say s it’ s the
t h ou g h t o f a t err or ist e nding up w ith a we a pon o f mas s
d e st r u c ti on, e spe ci all y a nucl ea r weap on.” So w e hav e som e
p e op l e wh o sa y , w el l, ma ybe th is i s no t so serio us a threa t;
o t he r s wh o sa y th is is t he sin gl e most ser i ous t hr eat . At
t h is p o in t, a s yo u thi nk about i t, how ser i ous d o you rega rd
t h is a s a thr e at fo r t he U.S., t od ay?

S E NA T O R N UNN: I th ink i t’s de ad ly ser ious . I b el iev e tha t

you h a ve to l ook a t t he stake s in volv ed a n d you h ave to p ut
a ma t r i x up, s how in g t he conse qu en ces vers u s the l ike lihoo d.
I f y o u lo ok a t th e lik el ihood, t he n in my v iew, th e
l i ke l i h oo d of a c he mic al attac k, t he l ikel i hood of a
c o nv e n t io nal e xpl os ion , the li ke li hood of a radi ol ogi cal
w e ap o n , t he l i kel ih ood o f an a nt hr ax a ttac k , is
s u bs t a n ti ally mor e tha n the li ke li hood of a nucl ea r w eapon
g o in g o ff in a ma jo r c it y.

B u t if y o u l oo k a t the co ns eq uenc es, m y mat ri x c omes out

a n d s a y s if y o u t ak e c on sequen ce s and like l ihood a nd affec t,
t h at t h is exp l osi on in a n Amer ic an cit y ha s to c om e o ut No .
1 , b e c a us e of the s tak e. And I tr ied to m a ke th at cl ear i n
m y t e s t im ony. Th is wo ul d not ju st aff ect t he im me dia te
v i ci n i t y; tha t wo ul d b e the mo ra l atro city . It wo uld be a
t e rr i b l e trag e dy; i t w ou ld be ho rr ible in e very as pec t. B ut
i t w o u l d shak e th e who le globa l ec onom y. I t wou ld sh ake t he
c o nf i d e nc e of peo pl e a ll over th e glob e. I t wou ld be very
h a rd t o p rese r ve th e f re edoms th at we have been bl ess ed wi th
i n t h i s c ount r y.

S e cu rity in al mos t every co un try come s firs t,

p a rt i c u la rly w hen p eop le have a vi vid sort of de mo nst ratio n
t h at t h ey ’re n ot se cur e. So I ’d s ay, in a n swer to yo ur
q u es t i o n, No. 1) I thi nk it’s ve ry , ve ry s e rious , and I
t h in k i n addr e ssi ng th e least li ke ly o f th e se ty pe of
e v en t s , t hat i s, a nuc le ar det on at ion, we a lso a re
a d dr e s s in g a l ot of ot he rs, li ke t he r adio l ogica l. So I do
n o t t h i nk you cle ar ly se parate t ha t. I th i nk we h ave to
s p en d a l ot m o re ti me on radio lo gi cal than we ar e spe nding
o n i t , be caus e I th ink i t’s mo re l ikel y.

A n d I al s o b el iev e that w e ne ed t o pl a y—and I ho pe on e

o f y o u r r ecom m end at ion s is—we pl ay som e wa r game s and get
t h e n e w s medi a in vo lve d, so th er e will be a n und er sta nding
i n t h e pu blic , th e dif fe rence be tw een a ra d iolog ic al weapo n—
w h ic h i s not l ike ly to k ill ma ny p eopl e, b u t can p ois on a
d i st r i c t— and a nu cl ear d etonat io n, whi ch w o uld, of co urse,
b e d e v a st atin g .

B e ca u s e i f we ’ re no t c ar eful, a ra diol ogic a l wea po n, which

i s m o r e l ikel y ; i f it go es off w e may reac t in t hi s c ountr y
a s i f a n ucle a r d et ona ti on had w ip ed o ut o n e of ou r c ities .
A n d t h a t woul d ha ve tr em endous c on sequ ence s in t he en ergy
f i el d ; 20 % of our e lec tr icity is n ucle ar p o wer, wh eth er
y o u’ r e fo r it or ag ain st it, a nd I ’m f or i t . Yo u hav e to
s a y w h a t are w e g oi ng to do to r ep lace tha t 20%, i f
b a si c a l ly , we hav e a p an ic in th is cou ntry on th e nuc lear
e q ua t i o n?

S o t h a t ’s the way I wo ul d sort o f view the serio us nes s of

it. I th ink i t’s v ery s erious . I n te rms o f saf er or
g r ea t e r r isk i n t he la st seven -y ea rs, I’d h ave t o cat egori ze
t h at . I hate to no t b e able t o gi ve y ou a yes o r no, I kn ow
t h at ’ s th e wa y we l ike t o thin k in the pol i tical w orl d. B ut
I th i n k i t’s p ret ty cl ea r we’v e go t nu clea r mate ri al under
b e tt e r co ntro l . It ’s un der be tt er con trol in th e for mer
S o vi e t Un ion, it’ s und er bette r co ntro l, p a rticu la rly in
R u ss i a .

K a za k h s ta n ha s go tt en ri d of v ir tu ally all of th ei r n uclea r

m a te r i a l. I t ook m y f ou ndatio n bo ard of d i recto rs ov er
t h er e . W e he l ped t hem g et rid o f the last 26 bo mb s w orth of
h i gh l y en rich e d u ra niu m; that is b eing ble n ded d ow n.
B e la r u s s till has s upp li es, bu t th ey h ave g otten r id of
t h ei r w ea pons , an d Ukr ai ne has g ot ten rid o f the ir we apons ,
a l th o u g h they sti ll ha ve some su pp lies .

S o y o u ha ve t o sa y, in t he las t 15 to 16-y e ars, we ’ve made a

l o t o f pr ogre s s. I wa nt to gi ve S am B odma n and al so Will
T o be y a t the D epa rt men t of Ene rg y. We alm o st ne ve r g ive
p e op l e cr edit . T he y’r e workin g ha rd o n th i s GTR I; th ey
s t il l h av e a l ong w ay to go. Th ei r li st i s n’t a s inc lusiv e,
s o w h e n t hey g et th rou gh with th ei r ta rget list, t hey real ly
a r en ’ t th roug h . Ma tt ma kes th at p rett y cl e ar, b ut th ey’re
m a ki n g pr ogre s s a nd th ey ’re wo rk in g ha rd a t it. A nd there
a r e a l ot of p eop le in D OE and D OD tha t ar e work in g h ard.

W e ’v e m ad e pr o gre ss in t he mat er ia l ar ea, b ut if y ou look at

t h e o v e ra ll t r end s; if y ou loo k at the inc r eased n umb er of
n u cl e a r w eapo n st at es; i f you lo ok at the I ndia/ Pa kis tan
e q ua t i o n; if y ou lo ok at the d et er iora tion of st ab ili ty in
P a ki s t a n; if y ou lo ok a the ba si c numb er o f coun tr ies that
a r e g e t ti ng r e ady t o e nr ich if t he Ira nian s enri ch ; i f you
l o ok a t t he I r ani an pr ob lem, w hi ch we have not c om e t o an
a n sw e r to ; ov e ral l, I th ink th e wo rld situ a tion is st orm
c l ou d s ar e ga t her in g.

I th i n k t he s i tua ti on is worse t ha n it was seven -y ear s ago ,

b u t t h a t’ s no t to s ay or in an y wa y di mini s h the f act that
w e h a v e m ade p rog re ss. The PS I Pr ogra m th e admi ni str ation
s p on s o r ed is a go od pr og ram. Th e rece nt S o chi [ ph one tic]
D e cl a r a ti on b e twe en U. S. and R us si a wa s an amazi ng
e x pr e s s io n of par tn ers hi p, alt ho ug h wh en i t came d own to t he
c r un c h , i t di d n’t s eem t o have m uc h ef fect on Ru ss ia and
G e or g i a , and o ur ab ili ty to pr ev en t th at o r to d ea l w ith i t.

W h en y o u look at th e o ve rall U .S ./ Russ ian l eader sh ip on th e

G l ob a l Or gani z ati on to P revent C at astr ophi c Terr or ism , I
t h in k t ha t’s a ve ry po si tive s ig n. Wh en y o u loo k at Libya ,
t h e f a c t we’v e ro ll ed ba ck the ir n ucle ar p r ogram , tha t’s
v e ry p o si tive . S o it’ s not on e of tho se t h ings wh ere I
t h in k t ho ught f ul pe opl e should s ay yes , or no. I thi nk it ’s
a mi x e d b ag, b ut ov era ll , I th in k we’r e in more da nge r
b e ca u s e o f th e tr en ds in the w or ld , no t wi t hstan di ng a gre at
d e al o f p rogr e ss on nu cl ear ma te ri als, and yet, we ha ve a
l o t m o r e to g o in e ver y catego ry .

D R . B U N N: I h ave h ard ly anyth in g to a dd t o what S am just

s a id . I beli e ve al so th at it’ s a very ser i ous t hr eat
b e ca u s e o f th e hu ge co ns equenc es . If you a ssume G rah am,
t h at y o u are t oo hi gh, b y a fa ct or of ten, in yo ur es timat es
o f t h e pr obab i lit y, it r emains t he cas e th a t if yo u b eliev e
a s I d o , that if it do es happe n it ’s m ost l ikely t o h appen
e i th e r in Was h ing to n o r in New Y or k, i t re m ains th e c ase
t h at i t ’s lik e ly en oug h to gre at ly eff ect t he li fe
e x pe c t a nc y an d th e pro ba bility o f deat h fo r ever yo ne who
l i ve s a nd wor k s i n eit he r Mid- To wn Man hatt a n or do wnt own
W a sh i n g to n.

T h at ’s a sob er ing c alcula ti on to do. I’d l ik e t o

c o mp a r e i t to a n uc lea r power pl an t, u pwin d of a m ajo r cit y.
N o o n e wo uld, in th eir r ight m in d, wou ld o p erate s uch a
p l an t i f it h ad a 1 i n 100 ch an ce eve ry y e ar, o f blo wing
s k y h i g h. Ev e ryo ne wo ul d unde rs ta nd t hat t hat r is k w as mu ch
t o o h i g h. An d ye t, I be lieve th e risk tha t we’r e imp osing
o n t h e wh ole w orl d, in a sense , is pro babl y high er th an
t h at , b y the w ay th at we ’re ma na gi ng n ucle a r wea po ns and
m a te r i a ls in t he wo rld t oday. S o I th ink w e hav e— I t hink
t h e r i s k is u n acc ep tab ly high to da y an d th e re ar e ste ps th at
w e c a n ta ke t o re du ce it .

N o w cont r ary t o t he piece i n the New Y ork T im es

y e st e r d ay , I d on’ t bel ie ve tha t th is i s th e only p rob lem o r
t h e o n l y thin g th at th e next p re si dent nee d s to do , t o be a
s u cc e s s fu l pr e sid en t. N or do I be liev e th a t pre em pti ve
a t ta c k is the key t ool f or red uc in g th e ri s k, as t hat piec e
a l so a r gu ed. Cer ta inl y, if we f in d ha rd e v idenc e of a
n u cl e a r t erro r ist p lot u nderwa y an d we kno w wher e it is, w e
s h ou l d pr eemp t it .

B u t t h e r eali t y i s, fo r seven- ye ar s we ’ve b een u na ble to

f i nd O s am a bi n La de n a nd Ayman a l- Zawa rhir i . I th ink it’s
v e ry l i ke ly t h at th ey wi ll hid e th eir nucl e ar ef fo rt as we ll
a s t h e y h ave h idd en th em selves . A nd w e ha v e had , in Iraq,
a n i n s t ru ctiv e ex pe rie nc e as t o th e ri sks a nd co st s o f
r e ly i n g o n pr e emp ti on or preve nt io n as a p o licy to ol.

I wo u l d a rgue tha t one o f the re su lts of o u r att ac k o n Ira q

i s t o i nf lame a s uf fic ie nt deg re e of a nti- A meric an ha tred in
v a ri o u s p lace s th at we p robabl y in crea sed r ather t han
d e cr e a s ed , th e ov er all n uclear t er rori sts r isk b y mak ing i t
e a si e r fo r Al - Qae da to r ecruit s om e of the peopl e the y mig ht
n e ed , o r to r a ise s ome o f the fi na ncin g th a t the y mig ht
n e ed .

S o o v e r al l, I ’ m w it h S am . I, to o, wou ld c o mplim en t S am
B o dm a n an d Wi l l T ob y o n the re ma rk able wor k that i s b eing
d o ne . I thin k th at nu cl ear ma te ri al, part i cular ly in the
f o rm e r So viet Uni on , b ut also in a num ber o f oth er co untri es
a r ou n d th e wo r ld, i s v er y much m or e se cure today t han it w as
o n S e p t em ber 1 1 th , of 2001. In my heart of hearts, I think that
at least on the nuclear terrorism part of the overall nuclear
r i sk , t ha t it ’ s l ow er to day th an i t wa s on Septe mb er 11 th of
2001, for that reason and because of the substantial disruptions
we’ve imposed on Al-Qaeda’s central command in the years since
then. But I worry about the re-constitution of that central
command.

S E NA T O R N UNN: Th an k y ou .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: D r. Al lison…

M R . S O K OL SKI: We ’r e u nd er tim e co nstr aint s .

D R . B U N N: So r ry fo r s uc h long a ns wers .

M R . S O K OL SKI: Yo u’ re n ot. L et m e ju st s a y tha t, li ke

G r ah a m , h ere, I s at 12 0 hearin gs b ehin d yo u , Sen at or Nunn.
I on c e sa t ne x t t o you a nd tes ti fi ed, but I neve r tho ught
y o u’ d b e on t h is si de of the t ab le , an d it ’ s a l it tle odd
for me. I do n ’t kn ow ho w you fi nd it. I c ould ge t u sed t o
it.

S E NA T O R N UNN: I ho pe we ’ll bo th e njoy it. [Lau gh ter ].

M R . S O K OL SKI: Ye s. W el l, oka y. Let me d o the fo llo wing:

t h er e i s one q ues ti on I really w an t to hav e on t he re cord
h e re , a nd I w a nt Se nat or Nunn to a nswe r it . And t hat ’ll b e
t h e f i r st que s tio n. I t’ s goin g to inv olve India . I’ m goi ng
t o a s k th e qu e sti on s—w e’ ll let t he clo ck r u n out —b ut could I
a s k t h e C hair tha t the a nswers t ha t th ey w o uld h av e l iked to
h a ve g i ve n, b e se nt in a nd put i nt o th e re c ord? B eca use
t h er e ’ s j ust n o w ay we ’l l be a bl e to g et t h rough a ll this.
I ju s t do n’t— b ut I do th ink th e on e qu esti o n I h av e, he’ll
b e a b l e t o an s wer .

F i rs t , le t me com me nt th at I t hi nk the tes t imony S ena tor

N u nn g a ve , ab o ut pr obl em s worr yi ng abo ut u n autho ri zed use,
a c ci d e n ta l us e , m is cal cu lation , wi th r egar d to t he Ru ssian s,
I as s u m e, app l ies i f—a s he poi nt s out— they ’ re sp re ad to
o t he r c ou ntri e s—1 0 to 20 —it be co me s im meas u rably m ore
d a ng e r o us . F o r w ha t i t’ s wort h, I wor ry a lot a bo ut that.
T h at ’ s th e ot h er ma nda te we ha ve , the P ma n date, n ot the T
m a nd a t e . And I’m g lad t o see yo u clar ify t hat.

A l so , D r. Bun n , I t hou gh t your c om ment s on the p ol icy

p r ob l e m s and y our c rit iq ue of th e poli cies of U. S. ha ndlin g
o f h i g h ly enr i che d ura ni um are e nc oura geme n t, I th ink , of
w a y t o o m uch r epr oc ess in g of p lu to nium abr o ad. An d y our
c o mm e n t s abou t sa bo tag e and st an da rds is s o methi ng I
r e co m m e nd to t he pu bli c to loo k at . I cer t ainly f oun d it
v e ry , v er y us e ful t o s ee in te st im ony. No w to t he fo ur
q u es t i o ns .

F i rs t , th e la s t t im e w e had a pr iv ate conv e rsati on , S enato r

N u nn — a n d I th i nk it on ly happe ne d once , so I can r eme mber it
v e ry v i vi dly— i t w as ab ou t Indi a. You have been co nsi stent
i n y o u r c riti c ism o f t he U.S./ In di a nu clea r deal , and that
i t s a p p ro val w ith ou t m uc h clea r re stra ints on In di a’s
w e ap o n s p rogr a m w ou ld on ly inc re as e th e pr o spect s of more
n u cl e a r a rms r aci ng wi th Pakis ta n, som ethi n g tha t Pak istan i
m i li t a r y has p ubl ic ly co nfirme d th at i t’s g oing to se t off
a n a r m s r ace. An d it wo uld se t a bad prec e dent th at would
u n de r m i ne nuc l ear s tre ng th, gl ob al ly.

N o w t h e m inor i ty an d m aj ority st af f on the hill ha ve told me

t h at b e ca use t he cu rre nt ly neg ot ia ted deal lacks a ny clear
l a ng u a g e requ i rin g the U .S. to c ut off ass i stanc e if India
r e su m e s t esti n g, be cau se India h as so far f ailed t o g ive I A
a sp e c i fi c li s tin g of th e reac to rs tha t we r e pla ce d u nder
s a fe g u a rd s, t h at it ’s cl early in v iola tion of th e Hyd e Act .
T h is b r in gs m e to m y q ue stion. Ho w im port a nt do y ou think
i t i s f or con g res s to up hold t he l aw a nd t h e let te r o f the
H y de A c t?

M a yb e I c ould tak e tha t questi on i f it was brief , if not, I

c a n j u s t go t h rou gh th e other qu es tion s. Y ou te ll me what
y o ur p r ef eren c e i s.

S E NA T O R N UNN: I th ink a ny law t ha t’s pass e d by th e c ongre ss

n e ed s t o be u p hel d. T ha t’s th e ge nera l ap p roach t hat we
h a ve t o t he r u le of la w. So w it ho ut a ny q u estio n, th at la w
o u gh t t o be u p hel d, or i t ough t to be chan g ed, o ne or the
o t he r . A nd i t wa s puz zl ing to m e the admi n istra ti on
b a si c a l ly arg u ed ag ain st —in th e Nu clea r Su p plies G rou p
a r gu m e n t— agai n st th e N uc lear S up pl ies Grou p pass in g a law
s i mi l a r t o wh a t—o r at le ast a re gu lati on o f that g rou p—
s i mi l a r t o wh a t w e had a s the la w of t he l a nd.

I t l eave s us i n a p ositio n so tha t if India w ere test ed,

t h ey w o ul d - - te st ing . If th ey d id t est, they wo uld
v i ol a t e t he l a w o f the U nited St at es, but t hey w ou ld not
v i ol a t e t he N u cle ar Su pp lies G ro up , wh ich m eans ev ery othe r
c o un t r y w ould hav e a r ig ht to tr ad e wi th I n dia, is ou r
u n de r s t an ding , in cl udi ng Franc e an d Ru ssia , exce pt th e
U n it e d St ates . I f ind t hat be wi ld erin g, a n d I t hi nk we we re
i n a r u sh to g et an ag re ement wi th Ind ia.

I th i n k a n ag r eem en t w it h Indi a, o vera ll, i n the l ong -term ,

i s i n o ur nat i ona l int er est, i f it is a go o d agr ee men t. I
t h in k t hi s wa s no t a g oo d agre em en t. I th o ught we sh ould
h a ve a d dr esse d th e fis si le mat er ia l pr oduc t ion, co nti nue t o
b a si c a l ly sta r t s up ply in g Indi a wi th f uel o il so t hey can
d i ve r t th eir o wn fu el to make mo re bom bs. And l oo kin g at
w h at ’ s go ing t o h ap pen i n reac ti on to Paki s tan, it se ems t o
m e t h e sp iral is ju st go ing to g o. I don’ t see ho w i t’s
a v oi d a b le . M a ybe i t i s.

T h e w a y I wou l d s ee k t o avoid it i s to get China i nvo lved

a n d t o tr y to hav e tal ks betwe en t he U nite d Stat es ,
P a ki s t a n, and Chi na , a nd perha ps e ven at s o me po in t, Russi a.
B u t I r ea lly s ee th at we ’re go in g to b e in real di ffi culty .
A n d I t hi nk t h e m ot iva ti on for t hi s ag reem e nt wa s pri maril y
e c on o m i c, and I u nd ers ta nd the e co nomi c mo t ivati on s, I
u n de r s t an d th e Am er ica n compan ie s that wan t to s el l.

I do n o t beli e ve it ’s in the i nt er est of n o n-pro li fer ation

a n d I h av e a v ery h ard t ime sq ua ri ng i t wi t h wha t our othe r
p r io r i t ie s ar e in t he wo rld, i n te rms, par t icula rl y, of
I r an . I do n o t k no w h ow we de al w ith the I rania n thi ng
s u cc e s s fu lly, not j ust w ith Ir an i tsel f, b u t wit h all the
o t he r c ou ntri e s t ha t a re affec te d by t his, with th e
p r ec e d e nt of t he In dia n deal. S o I am neg a tive on it ; I w as
n e ga t i v e on i t ; I ’v e s po ken ou t ag ains t it ; I’ve w rit ten
a r ti c l e s agai n st it , a ll to no a va il. But that’ s whe re I
am.

M R . S O K OL SKI: We ll , s om etimes w he n de sper a te ti me s o ccur,

c o ng r e s s does des pe rat e things l ik e en forc e the la w. We’l l
s e e w h a t happ e ns. Her e are th e ot her ques t ions.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: H enr y, could I s ugge st t h at yo u sub mit t he

t h re e q ue stio n s. W hy do n’t yo u pi ck o ne o f thos e que stion s
f o r a v er bal a nsw er .

M R . S O K OL SKI: Ok ay . An d just s ub mit the o thers . Ok ay.

N o t a b ad ide a . He re’ s one; i n yo ur t esti m ony S en ato r, yo u
p r ai s e th e bl e ndi ng do wn of 50 0 to ns o f hi g hly e nr ich ed
u r an i u m i nto n on- we apo ns useab le f uel, whi c h now p owe rs ha lf
o f o u r re acto r s f ro m R us sia. Ad mi tted ly, a majo r
a c co m p l is hmen t ; 2 0, 000 w eapons w or th o f ma t erial , by some
c a lc u l a ti ons, has n ow be en ren de re d sa fe, i f you w ill , or
s a fe r .

T h at l e av es 1 , 200 m ore t ons, w hi ch you did not d is cus s and I

t h in k t he que s tio n I h av e is, yo u have som e one o n you r boa rd
w h os e n am e is Pet e Dom en ici, a nd h e th ough t that m ayb e we
s h ou l d pe rhap s ma ke th e furthe r pe netr atio n of o ur ma rket by
R u ss i a , c onti n gen t on th em at le as t bl endi n g dow n, or
c o mm i t t in g to ble nd do wn that ot he r ma teri a l. D oe s t hat
m a ke s e ns e? B y t he wa y, this ha s the unus u al qu al ity of n ot
c o st i n g a nyth i ng, s o i t may be a s edit ious idea, b ut I’m
c u ri o u s t o ge t yo ur th ou ghts o n th at.

S E NA T O R N UNN: I ce rta in ly agr ee w ith Sena t or Do me nic i’s

g o al , a nd he’ s of c our se , one of m y de ar f r iends . I’ m not
s u re t h e best way t o g o about it i s th e wa y he h as
s u gg e s t ed . I rea ll y b el ieve i t’ s in t he R u ssian ’s in teres t
t o m a k e e cono m ic co nve rs ion ou t of tha t ma t erial a nd to
c o nv e r t i t to low e nri ch ed ura ni um and to s ell i t on the
m a rk e t .

A nd t h is is o ne of th e reason s I felt tha t the 12 3

A g re e m e nt was imp or tan t. I un de rs tand why the
a d mi n i s tr atio n ’s wi thd ra wn it, b ec ause it h as no c han ce of
p a ss i n g n ow. But t hat g ave th e ch ance for real ci vil
c o op e r a ti on w i th th e R us sians, n ot jus t in this ar ea, but
a l so i n t he s p ent f uel a rea. I th ink it’s as mu ch in our
i n te r e s t as R u ssi a’ s.

A n d I t hi nk i n th is pe ri od of gr ea t fr ustr a tion wi th the

R u ss i a n i nvas i on of Ge or gia, w e’ ve got to b e ver y car eful
t h at w e d on’t thi nk we ’v e got le ve rage whe n what ev er we’re
d o in g h ur ts u s mo re th an it hu rt s them . W e ’ve g ot to be
v e ry c a re ful a bou t tha t. Ther e’ s a te nden c y, as t he old
c a rt o o n g oes, wit h the M arx Br ot he rs—n ot K a rl, b ut th e
G r ou c h o c rowd — whe re th e thug’s c om ing acro s s the r oom and he
h o ld s a p isto l to h is he ad and s ay s yo u ta k e one s tep clos er
a n d I ’ l l pull the t rig ge r. Th at ’s gen eral l y our t end ency to
r e ac t . S o I t hin k we’ ve got t o be ver y ca u tious h ere , in
t e rm s o f the w ay we re ac t to t hi s.

B u t n e v er thel e ss, I th in k all th e mate rial we ca n ble nd

d o wn , t he mor e we c an bl end do wn , the bett e r. I t hin k it’ s
i n R u s s ia ’s i n ter es t a nd I thi nk i t’s in o u r own i nte rest.
W e o u g h t to b e do in g t ha t all ov er the wor l d, so I su pport
t h e g o a l Sena t or Do men ic i talk ed a bout .

M R . S O K OL SKI: Le t me re assure y ou on one c ount, l ega lly.

W e c a n im port mor e fue l from R us si a wi thou t a 12 3 Agr eemen t,
a n d I s ee nod s fr om Dr . Bunn. S o this is o ne ar ea wh ere y ou
c a n w o r k, eve n wi th out t he agr ee me nt.

S E NA T O R N UNN: Ye ah , I a gree. B ut eco nomi c s com es in to pl ay

h e re , t oo .

D R . B U N N: Le t me j ust a dd to wh at Sen ator Nunn sa id, the

N u cl e a r T hrea t In it iat iv e, tha t he lea ds—h a s bee n pur suing
w i th R u ss ian c oll ea gue s a stud y of wha t wo u ld it c ost and
w h at t i me wou l d i t be in volved a nd so on, t o act ua lly blen d
d o wn m u ch lar g er qu ant it ies of R us sian ETU ; that s tud y is
a l mo s t co mple t ed. As pa rt of th at stu dy, I ’ve w ri tte n a
f a ir l y de tail e d a na lys is of th in gs we coul d do t o giv e the
R u ss i a n s the i nce nt ive t o agre e to ble nd d o wn mu ch mo re
h i gh l y en rich e d u ra niu m, and I ’d b e ha ppy t o sub mi t t hat f or
t h e r e c or d.

I ju st w a nte d to se cond S en at or N unn o n the n eed to b e

c a re f u l , and h ow we re ac t to i na pp ropr iate Russi an be havio r
i n G e o r gi a an d el se whe re . It’ s cl ear, U.S . /Russ ia n
r e la t i o ns are in a hug e downtu rn , but we n e ed to r eme mber
t h at t h is is a co un try s itting o n a hu ge s t ockpi le of
n u cl e a r w eapo n s a nd a hu ge sto ck pi le o f nu c lear ma ter ial.
A n d i t is in o ur vi tal n ationa l in tere st t o main ta in enoug h
c o op e r a ti on w i th th em to coope ra te wit h th e m on ma kin g sur e
t h os e m at eria l s a nd ou r materi al s, and mat e rials a rou nd th e
w o rl d , ar e un d er se cur e contro l.

W e s houl d re me mbe r that P re si dent Rea g an, w ho wa s aft er

a l l, n o s louc h at s tan di ng up to t he S ovie t Unio n,
n e go t i a te d mo s t o f the S tark T re at y wh ile S oviet t roo ps we re
s t il l i n Afgh a nis ta n. H e unde rs to od h ow t o , on th e o ne
h a nd , s ta nd u p fo r wha t was ap pr op riat e to Sovie t beh avior ;
b u t o n th e ot h er ha nd, b uild t he k ind of p a rtner sh ip with
G o rb a c h ev , th a t h e nee de d, to ge t that arm s cont ro l
n e go t i a ti on m o vin g. A nd we ne ed t o ha ve t h at ki nd of wisd om
t o da y , I thin k .

S E NA T O R N UNN: If I co ul d add ju st one thi n g, Gr ah am

A l li s o n ’s bee n on t wo di fferen t pa nels ; I w as on o ne of th em
w i th h i m abou t di st ing ui shing an d poin ting out A me ric a’s
v i ta l i nt eres t , a nd di st inguis hi ng bet ween the v it al and t he
i m po r t a nt , an d th e emo ti onal. A nd I b elie v e tha t we are a t
t h at j u nc ture now . I th ink it ’s v ery easy to lo se tr ack o f
o n es v i ta l in t ere st , a nd I thi nk t his pane l can ma ke a maj or
c o nt r i b ut ion i n t ha t r eg ard. I th ink ther e ’s a te nde ncy t o
r e ac t t o the v ivi d rat he r than t o thin k ab o ut th e vit al.
T h e v i v id is a lwa ys ea sy to re ac t to, and t hat’s w hat all
t h e c o m pe llin g fo rc es po litica l po int towa r d, bu t usu ally
i t ’s a t t he e x pen se of t he vit al . So I th i nk th at Mr .
C h ai r m a n, you all h ave a real op po rtun ity h ere t o mak e a
d i ff e r e nc e on tha t.

M R . S O K OL SKI: We ll , I h ighlig ht t his poin t beca us e y ou ca n

p r oc e e d w ith t his p art o f blen d do wn w itho u t a 1 23 , w ithou t
s p en d i n g mone y —an d I s us pect f ro m what I’v e done i n t he wa y
o f p o l l in g, w i th re pub li can an d de mocr atic suppo rt —so it
c o ul d b e a br i dgi ng ev en t that m ig ht b e us e ful.

S E NA T O R N UNN: I ag ree w ith th at c ompl etel y . Th e onl y

f o ot n o t e I’d a dd to it i s we’v e al so g ot t o have R uss ian
s u pp o r t .

M R . S O K OL SKI: Sa y aga in ?

S E NA T O R N UNN: It ’s go t to hav e Ru ssia ’s s u pport . An d tha t

g e ts i n to a l o t b ro ade r pictur e an d a lot m ore
c o ns i d e ra tion s , i nc lud in g 123, a nd it also inclu de s t he
e c on o m i cs of t he eq uat io n. Th e Ru ssia ns, r ightl y or
w r on g l y , in m a ny ca ses w rongly , fe el t hat o n the l ast deal ,
t h ey g o t the s hor t end o f the ma rk et f orce shaft . An d I
d o n’ t t hi nk—I thi nk th ey want to g ive us a lectu re on free
m a rk e t ec onom i cs in te rm s of t he ir app roac h to h ow th ey’re
g o in g t o sell the ir lo w enrich ed u rani um.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: S ena to r Nunn a nd Dr. Bun n , tha nk yo u ver y

m u ch . We hav e ti me on ly , I’m af ra id, for o ne qu es tio n fro m
t h e o t h er com m iss io ner s. Is t he re ano ther quest io n f or
[ c ro s s t al k]. Ric h.

M R . R I C HA RD V E RMA : Dr . Bunn. I n some thin g that y ou’ ve

t e st i f i ed bef o re to co ng ress, an d writ ten a bout, r ega rding
n u cl e a r t erro r ism a nd nu clear pl ot s; y ou s a id th at th e bes t
c h an c e to sto p a nu cle ar plot li es not in e xotic n ew
d e te c t i on tec h nol og ies , but in m or e tr adit i onal co unt er-
t e rr o r i sm str a teg ie s. Y ou tal ke d abou t re d ucing t he hatre d
o f A m e r ic ans a nd tr yin g to do mo re to kind of dr ai n t he
s w am p , as the y sa y. C an you t al k a li ttle bit a bo ut that as
i t r e l a te s to nuc le ar te rroris m an d wh at y o u mea nt in that
r e ga r d ?

D R . B U N N: Su r e. A gai n, the v it al che ckpo i nt is t he nucle ar

m a te r i a l, but the n the re ’s the w ho le r ange of ot he r s teps on
t h e t e r ro rist s pa th way t o the bo mb . A nd I think t hat as I
s a id , t hi s is goi ng to b e—a te rr or ist nucl e ar pl ot wo uld b e
o n e o f th e la r ger , mor e comple x te rror ists opera ti ons that
h a s e v e r been car ri ed ou t. Al th ou gh, U.S. intel li gen ce
o f fi c i a ls hav e te st ifi ed that th e foot prin t migh t be no
b i gg e r th an t h e f oo tpr in t of t he 9 /11 cons p iracy , and
t h er e f o re mig h t b e as di fficul t to det ect, as th e 9/1 1
c o ns p i r ac y.

B u t, it’ s go in g t o requir e fi nanc ing. We’r e doi ng mu ch

b e tt e r no w on try in g t o stop t er ro rist s. I t’s r eq uir ed
m i ll i o n s of d o lla rs ; t ha t’s an i nd icat or t h at we m igh t be
a b le t o s ee. The re ’s pr obably g oi ng t o be state me nts abou t
i t ; t h a t’ s an ind ic ato r that w e mi ght be a b le to p ick up o n
a n d d o so meth i ng ab out . They ma y well see k to r ec rui t
k n ow l e d ge able peo pl e. A gain, th at ’s s omet h ing w e oug ht to
b e w o r k in g on pre ve nti ng .

A t t h e mo ment , ev en wi th in the c om muni ty o f the, s ort of,

w o rs e , vi olen t Is la mic e xtremi st s, the re i s actu al ly a maj or
d e ba t e un derw a y o n the m oral l eg it imac y of slaug ht eri ng
c i vi l i a ns . A n d w hi le I think ou r gove rnme n t is no t i n the
b e st p o si tion to en gag e in tha t de bate wit h them , bec ause
t h ey d o n’ t li s ten t o w ha t we s ay , none thel e ss, I t hin k the re
i s a n o pp ortu n ity t o w or k with , no t on ly g o vernm en ts, but
N G Os a n d so o n , i n the I slamic w or ld; to m a ke cl ea r t hat
w h et h e r i t’s t he Is lam ic tradi ti on or any o ther re lig ious
t r ad i t i on , th e re is n’t a relig io us tra diti o n out t her e,
u n de r w hi ch s l aug ht eri ng civil ia ns on a nu c lear sc ale is
l e gi t i m at e, b y an yb ody ’s stand ar ds .

A n d I t hi nk b y bu il din g that c on se nsus in t he Is la mic worl d,

i t m a y be pos s ibl e to ma ke it mo re dif ficu l t to ge t t hat
m i ll i o n ai re t o gi ve yo u the mo ne y you need , to g et th at gu y
w h o k n o ws how to ma chi ne highl y en rich ed u r anium t o a gree to
j o in t h ei r pl o t. Y ou’ re not g oi ng to conv i nce O sa ma bin
L a de n o r even Ahm ad al -Z awahir i, b ut I thi n k the re ar e a
b u nc h o f the s upp or t n et work p eo pl e th at y o u can m ake it
m o re d i ff icul t fo r the m to dra w on and tha t that m ay be a
m o re h o pe ful a ven ue th an lots of a dvan ce s p ectro sc opi c
p o rt a l s , in m y vi ew .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: D r. Bu nn, Se na to r Nu nn, t hank yo u v ery

m u ch f o r your exc el len t testim on y and comm e nts. T his will
b e v e r y h elpf u l a s we co nsider o ur rep ort a nd
r e co m m e nd atio n s.

M R . R A D EM AKER : I t han k all of y ou , ve ry m u ch.

D R . B U N N: Th a nk yo u a ll of yo u.

S E NA T O R N UNN: Th an k y ou .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: L adi es and g en tl emen , it is no w 11: 11. I

s u gg e s t w e ta k e a r ece ss until 1 1: 20, and w e wil l re-
c o mm e n c e with the p ane l on—wit h th e bi olog i cal p an el. Tha nk
y o u.

[ P AU S E ]

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: C all t he mee ti ng to orde r . Ou r nex t pan el

i s g o i n g to b e fo cu sed o n the bi ol ogic al t h reat an d a gain,
w e a r e fo rtun a te to ha ve two e xc el lent com m entat or s o n thi s
i s su e . T om B r oka w was a targe t of the mos t seri ou s
b i ol o g i ca l at t ack t hat w e have h ad in Amer i can h is tor y, an d
h e b r i n gs tha t pe rs ona l narrat iv e and the r ecomm en dat ions
t h at c o me fro m th at ex pe rience .

D r . M a r ga ret H amb ur g i s curren t wi th t he N u clear T hre at

I n it i a t iv e, b u t h as pr ev iously b ee n th e Co m missi on er of
H e al t h of thi s gr ea t c it y, and h as an enor m ous b ac kgr ound in
t h e s c i en ce o f pr ev ent in g and re sp ondi ng t o the bi olo gical
t h re a t .

W e a r e ve ry a p pre ci ati ve that bo th of you a re he re , a nd as

w e h a v e w ith t he pr evi ou s pane ls , we w ill h ave t wo le ad
q u es t i o ne rs; C omm is sio ne r Robi n Cl evel and a nd Co mm iss ioner
R i ch V e rm a. M r. Br oka w.

M R . B R O KA W: T han k you , Mr. Ch ai rm an. Let me sa y at the

o u ts e t , t his i s a n unu su al sit ua ti on f or m e . I’ m gen erall y
u s ed t o a skin g th e que st ions, no t answ erin g the qu est ions.
[ L au g h t er ]. B ut I tho ug ht it mi gh t be hel p ful t o the pane l
a n d t o ot hers who a re in terest ed , if I wer e to g iv e y ou wh at
y o u d e s cr ibed as a per so nal na rr at ive of t h e exp er ien ce th at
w e h a d at NBC , wh en we d id bec om e the targ e t of an an thrax
a t ta c k .

L e t m e sa y at the o uts et that I’ m appe arin g here t oda y as a

j o ur n a l is t, a s a ci tiz en , as a n em ploy ee o f NBC ne ws, but
a l so a s a ver y de ar fr ie nd of tw o peop le i n our of fic e, wh o
w e re s u bj ecte d to c uta ne ous an th ra x as a r e sult of ha ndlin g
a le t t e r that was a ddr es sed to m e. I hope , by t he en d of my
r e ma r k s t hat t her e wil l be som et hi ng i nstr u ctive i n a ll
t h is . I’ m su r e t ha t y ou ’ll sh ar e my c oncl u sion as we ll, i f
m y n a r r at ive i s u ns ett li ng, ev en n ow, seve n -year s lat er.

F i rs t o f all, I t hi nk it ’s imp or ta nt t hat y ou un de rst and

t h at t h is let t er ar riv ed in wh at I des crib e as a c ult ure o f
c h ao s . N ot j u st be cau se it wa s a news room , beca us e w e’d
b e en u n de r at t ack i n t hi s coun tr y, and the r e was a gr eat
u n se t t l ed fee l ing , not j ust at 3 0 Rock efel l er Pl az a, but
t h ro u g h ou t th e Ci ty of N ew Yor k an d th e en v irons , and acro ss
t h e c o u nt ry.

I th i n k t hat’ s im po rta nt becau se a ny b iolo g ical at tac k or

n u cl e a r a ttac k , f or th at matte r, w ill crea t e cha os . And w e
h a ve t o m ake v ery d iff ic ult de ci si ons in t h at ki nd of a
c u lt u r e . We c an go th ro ugh th es e exer cise s and he ar
t e st i m o ny in t hes e kin ds of qu ie t room s, a n d con te mpl ate t he
c o ns e q u en ces o f i t. B ut I can a ss ure you t hat w ha t y ou’ll
l e ar n i n the c our se of m y narr at iv e is tha t we w er e d oing
t h is o n t he f l y. I t w as like ch an ging tir e s on a tru ck
g o in g 9 0- mile s an h our a nd try in g to f igur e out wh ich tire s
f i t o n wh ich w hee ls , a nd tryin g to kee p ev e rythi ng mo ving in
t h e s a m e dire c tio n.

I br o u g ht wit h me a ca le ndar s o th at y ou c a n hav e a s ense of

b o th t h e frus t rat io n a nd the l en gt h of the ordea l tha t we
w e nt t h ro ugh. So f ar as we ca n te ll, now, stitc hi ng it ba ck
t o ge t h e r, the let te r w as postm ar ke d on Sep t ember 1 8 th . We
think it arrived in our office the next day, the 19 th , or 29 th .
Memories are unclear on that.

A yo u n g w oman ope ne d t he lette r in the out e r par t of the N BC

n e ws r o o m; it w as he r a ss ignmen t as a n ews d esk; it ’s an
e n tr y - l ev el p o sit io n. S he ope ne d the lett e r; a lo t o f
g r an u l a r mate r ial s pil le d out of i t. She s wept it in to a
w a st e b as ket w ith a pl as tic li ni ng , an d th e n sen t the lett er
o n t o m y assi s tan t.

A n d i n c id enta l ly, f or th e purp os es of this narra ti ve, they

s h al l g o name l ess . In t he cas e of my assi s tant, s he’ s
a l wa y s ch eris h ed he r p ri vacy. T he you ng w o man w ho op ened
t h e l e t te r in the f ron t of the n ew sroo m ha s writ te n a bout
h e r e x p er ienc e , b ut I’ ll leave i t to h er t o desc ri be her o wn
o r de a l .

T h e l e t te r ar r ive s on my assis ta nt ’s d esk, becau se I was s o

b u sy w i th wha t I wa s d oi ng, an d sh e wa s so good at wh at sh e
d i d, s h e deci d ed no t t o bother m e with it b ecaus e the re we re
a nu m b e r of t h ose k ind s of let te rs tha t we were ge tti ng.
S o me o f t hem w ere t hre at ening, o th ers were typic al of f-the -
w a ll k i nd s of mai l tha t we wou ld g et o n a d aily ba sis . So me
o f t h e m w ere p ret ty su gg estive , in ter ms o f what t hey
t h ou g h t s houl d ha pp en to me fo r an y re mark s that I ma y hav e
m a de o n t he a i r.

M y a s s i st ant w as th e w if e of a N ew Yor k Ci t y pol ic ema n, so

h e r s e c ur ity r ada r was p robabl y a litt le h i gher th an a
n o rm a l ex ecut i ve as sis ta nt wou ld h ave. Sh e set th e l etter
o f f t o th e si d e; I saw i t, may be o n th e se c ond d ay . And a s
I wa l k e d by I sai d, we ll , if y ou t hink he’ s goin g to
t h re a t e n my l i fe, h e c ou ld at le as t be gra m matic al ; i t was a
p r et t y cr udel y wr it ten l etter. I pick ed i t up, lo oke d at
i t , p u t i t ba c k d ow n.

W h at I di dn’t kno w at th at tim e— an d th is i s now, I th ink,

t h e l a s t week of Se pte mb er, ar ou nd the 24 th or 25 th —what I
didn’t know at the time is that she had also opened another letter
—my assistant—and some white powder had spilled out, and she was
i m me d i a te ly s u spi ci ous o f that . S o sh e se n t tha t whi te
p o wd e r on to t he NB C s ec urity de ta il.

A n d b y th e en d of t he th ird we ek , the last week in

S e pt e m b er , my ass is tan t said s he w asn’ t fe e ling we ll and s he
w e nt h o me . A g ain , she d idn’t bo th er m e be c ause sh e k new I
w a s s o pr eocc u pie d. I w as ope ra ti ng o n a 2 4/7 c yc le.

T h e f o l lo wing wee k, th e first we ek of Octo b er, o ne of the

N B C s e c ur ity p eop le st op ped me i n the hall w ay an d sai d you
k n ow , t ha t wh i te po wde r that w e te sted for you, it ’s
n e ga t i v e. An d I sa id wh at whi te p owde r? A nd th ey sa id,
w e ll , y ou r as s ist an t g av e us t hi s whit e po w der a nd it ’s
t o ta l l y n egat i ve.

I n t h e me anti m e, my as si stant is n ot f eeli n g wel l at all;

k i nd o f f lu-l i ke sy mpt om s; beg in s to d evel o p a s ki n r ash.
T h e y o u ng wom a n w ho ha d opened t he fir st l e tter wa s f eelin g
e v en w o rs e. S he ha d s wo llen g la nd s, s he w a s tol d by her
p h ys i c i an it w as pr oba bl y a re ac ti on t o a m edici ne th at sh e
w a s t a k in g fo r an a sth ma condi ti on , Ac cuta n e. S he st ayed at
h o me f o r a co u ple o f d ay s.

W e h a d no ide a at t hat p oint, th at she ’d o p ened, w hat turn ed

o u t t o be the vil la ino us lette r. By t he e n d of th at first
w e ek i n O ctob e r, it ’s no w been t en -day s si n ce my a ssi stant
h a nd l e d t he l e tte r. S he ’d bee n on the pho n e to th e F BI, t o
t h e N e w Y ork C ity P oli ce Depar tm en t, a nd s h e’s b ee n t o see a
d o ct o r . And e ver yo ne sa ys to he r when she raise s the
q u es t i o n, cou l d t hi s b e anthra x; n ot a cha n ce. No wa y.

I fi r s t b egan to le arn t hat th er e is s omet h ing c al led a

b r ow n r ec lusi v e s pi der t hat ha s a very sim i lar f oo tpr int t o
a n th r a x , and s he wa s t ol d it m ig ht hav e be e n a s pi der bite .
W h en I ta lked to he r o n Friday , th e 5 th of October, she was
really exercised. She didn’t feel that she was getting any
straight answers from anyone. She was beginning to be concerned
about her health and the reports of anthrax were out there, that
had been described by the national news media and by public health
officials.

S h e’ s a t that poi nt , h ow ever, on C ipro , so Satur da y, Sunda y,

6 th and 7 th , she’s at home; we check in a couple of times. She
said I’m feeling a little better; I’m going to come in to work on
Monday. She comes in to work on Monday, the 8 th , and she said I’m
actually feeling quite a bit better. She goes into the restroom
with two of her colleagues, that are good friends of mine. They
came out; one of them came to me immediately and said this is a
God-awful mess. It’s a big scabrous mess; it can’t be good.
I sa i d to her , we ’v e g ot to ge t ad diti onal medic al ca re fo r
t h is . Sh e’d a lre ad y b ee n to s ee a t le ast o ne de rm ato logis t,
a t t h a t p oint . L et me j ust al so s ay, pare n theti ca lly , I
t h in k I ’v e go t th e tim el ine ri gh t. My not e s wer e des troye d
w h en t h ey cle a ned o ut my offic e, i t tu rns o ut. So on —I
s a id , l et ’s f i nd Ke vin C ahill, s om ebod y Pe g gy kn ow s w ell.
H e ’s a we ll-k n own i nfe ct ious d is ea se e xper t , who h as
o p er a t e d a lo t of h is pr actice i n the Thir d Worl d.

H e ’s i n e ffec t , o ur fa mi ly doc to r, bec ause the B ro kaw s spe nd

a lo t o f thei r ti me in t he Thi rd W orld , an d we b ri ng back
t h es e v ar ious con di tio ns and h e’ s been tre a ting us fo r 25-
y e ar s . W onde r ful l itt le Irish -A me rica n, m i ssion ar y, sort of
p h ys i c i an . O n Tu es day m orning , th e 9 th of October, I had an
early appointment, called Kevin, and his assistant said he’s on
his way to NYU Medical School. I said he has to stay in the
office; there’s something very important to me. I’m sending up my
assistant.

I go t a h old o f m y assist an t, who was alrea dy on the way

a t t h a t p oint ; go es up t o see hi m. Ke vin c alls me th at
a f te r n o on , th e 9 th , now we’re now talking two, almost three-weeks
after we think the letter arrived. And for the first time someone
says to me, I can’t rule it out. It could be anthrax; it looks
like what I’ve seen in Africa before. I’m sending her to a
dermatologist that I know and we’ll get some biopsies.

W e ll , un d ers ta nda bl y, my as si stan t wa s in a m elt down

p h as e . S he h a s a t odd le r at h om e, she ’s b e en se nt in ever y
p o ss i b l e dire c tio n exc ep t the ri gh t on e, f o r the l ast thee -
w e ek s , an d sh e ’s— we kn ow nothi ng a bout ant h rax. Y ou know,
w h at t h e cons e que nc es co uld be , wh at i t me a ns in t erm s of
h a vi n g go ne h o me. How m uch sh e mi ght have carri ed in her
c l ot h i n g.

W e s ent h er to th e dermat ol og ist and t hen I d id

s o me t h i ng I’v e ne ve r t al ked ab ou t in p ubli c befo re . I
o p en e d up a b a ck ch ann el to Fo rt D etri ck, i n Mar yl and . We
h a d b e e n deal i ng wi th th em som e, a nd I tal k ed to t wo
u n if o r m ed off i cia ls at F ort De tr ic k, w hose names s hal l
r e ma i n an onym o us fo r t he purpo se s of t his d iscus si on. And I
s a id t o t hem, I n ee d s om e help .

W e ’r e n ot get t ing a ny st raight a ns wers ; yo u ’re s up pos ed to

b e t h e le adin g au th ori ti es in th is cou ntry , on b io log ical
w a rf a r e a nd w e apo nr y. C ould y ou t alk to m y secr et ary ? An d
t h ey s a id yes , we ’d li ke to ta lk t o he r. W e put h er on th e
p h on e . T hey t alk ed to h er for s om e le ngth about w her e she ’d
b e en t h e week bef or e, an d what i t lo ok s lik e, an d wha t she ’d
b e en t h ro ugh, and h ow sh e was fe el ing.

I go t ba c k o n the p hone w it h them and they sa id, you

k n ow , w e don’ t th in k i t’ s anth ra x. We thi n k it’ s a b rown
r e cl u s i ve spi d er; i t h as the s am e char acte r istic s. I said
w e ll d o m e an add it ion al favor . I f I get a biop sy to you
w i ll y o u test it fo r m e? And th ey sai d, y o u kno w, th at’s
n o t t h e b usin e ss we ’re i n; we wo rk for the army. I s aid I
u n de r s t an d, t h ese a re ex traord in ar y ci rcum s tance s and you’ ll
b e p r o t ec ted.

A n d t h e y said oka y; ge t us a b io ps y. Make sure it ’s taken

f r om a se para t e p ar t o f the sc ab ro us m ass f rom w hi ch the
f i rs t b io psy w as ta ken . So we s en t th ose i nstru ct ion s to
t h e d e r ma tolo g ist , we go t two bi op sies del i vered t o m y
o f fi c e , w e ar r ang ed fo r a moto rc yc le c ouri e r to me et an
a i rp l a n e in W a shi ng ton , raced it o ut t o Fo r t Det ri ck on
W e dn e s d ay , th e 10 th of October. On the 11 th of October, Fort
Detrick called me back and said it’s not anthrax. We don’t have a
match.

I wa s e no rmou s ly re lie ve d. I ca ll ed m y as s istan t who was

s t il l d ee ply s usp ic iou s that i t co uld be a n thrax , and was
n o t u t t er ly r e ass ur ed by what sh e had hear d from F ort
D e tr i c k . But I w as en or mously r el ieve d at that po int .

E a rl y F ri day m orn in g I w ent ou t wi th m y do g for a run , cam e

b a ck i n f eeli n g p re tty g ood ab ou t life . I thoug ht we ’re
g o in g t o get t hro ug h t hi s; it ha d been an u tter ni ght mare,
m o st l y fo r th o se tw o w om en, to s ay not hing of th e uph eaval
t h at i t c ause d at N BC. Went o ut f or a run and t he ph one
r a ng a t a bout 7:1 5 and t he new s de sk s aid t o me th at Berni e
K e ri k , th e po l ice c omm is sioner w as try ing t o fin d me, and I
t h ou g h t , oh, m y G od . It ’s ant hr ax .

‘ C au s e wh at I ’ d b ee n t ol d the da y befo re i s , the C DC lab h ad

b r ok e n do wn s o th ey co ul dn’t g et a tes t on the T hu rsd ay
b e fo r e [p hone t ic] , whe n Fort D et ri ck c ould , and th ey’ d
w o rk e d th roug h th e nig ht to tr y to get a r e asona bl e r ead o n
all of th is.

S i mu l t a ne ousl y , w hi le we ’re go in g thro ugh a ll th is , t here’ s

k i nd o f a n un s ett le d f ee ling i n th e bu ildi n g, bu t we’ re
c o nf i n i ng it ‘ cau se we d on’t w an t to c ause undo pa nic .
W e ’r e o pe rati n g b as ed on what we ’r e be ing t old b y ver y
a u th o r i ta tive sou rc es. Well, wh en we’ re t o ld th at it in
f a ct , i s an a n thr ax at ta ck, th at t hey have cutan eo us
a n th r a x , all h ell b rok e loose at 3 0 Ro ck.
T h er e w er e no sys te ms in place , no sys tems in pl ac e, with
a l l d u e r espe c t t o our g uests wh o are here today f or the
F B I. R ud y Gi u lia ni ha d not ev en h eard tha t we’d b een
s u sp i c i ou s th a t t he re mi ght be a n anth rax a ttack . He came
s t or m i n g into the m eet in g on t he 5 2 nd floor, which is, to this
day one of the most dramatic I’ve ever been involved.

Y o u c a n o nly i mag in e; we ’ve go t Je ff I mmel t , he’ s bee n on

t h e j o b f or f i ve- da ys, t he CEO o f Gene ral E lectr ic ; t he he ad
o f t h e CD C on a c on fer en ce cal l; t he S peye r -Tish ma n
r e pr e s e nt ativ e s; me ; M ay or Giu li an i; B ob W r ight, w ho was t he
P r es i d e nt of N BC; a nd we ’re al l op erat ing o n a b as is of we
d o n’ t k no w wh a t’s g oin g on or wh at we shou l d do ne xt. No
o n e h a d a clu e ab ou t w he re we sh ou ld g o an d how we sh ould do
it.

W e d i d de cide , on t he sp ot, th at w e we re g o ing t o hav e to

c l ea r o ut tho s e o ff ice s and th at t here wou l d be a mas s
i n oc u l a ti on o f Ci pr o, an d it t ur ns out tha t I th in k t ouris ts
w h o w a l ke d by thr ee -we ek s earl ie r came in a nd go t Cip ro
s h ot s . I mea n we w ere i nocula ti ng peo ple f or 36 -h our s and
i t w a s co mfor t ing u p t o a poin t, b ut i t wa s also u tte rly
c h ao t i c .

I ’ m h a p py to s ay th at th e reso lu ti on o f al l this h as been,

f o r t h e t wo p e opl e tha t I care m os t ab out, is th at th ey’re
g o in g t o live wit h thi s ordeal f or the res t of t he ir lives .
I t w a s a very har d, ph ys ical a nd e moti onal recov er y f or bo th
o f t h e m . But the y’ re at a sta ge i n th eir l ives wh ere I
t h in k I c an f a irl y say t hat th ey ’r e mo ving on no w, an d the ir
l i ve s h av e be e n s ti tch ed back to ge ther . B u t I a m con fiden t
t h at o n t his d ay th ey ar e thin ki ng abo ut t h eir o rd eal agai n,
a n d w o n de ring how c los e did I co me .

I n t h e ca se o f my a ssi st ant, w e co mple tely clean ed ou t her

h o us e , co mple t ely t ook i t down t o the stud s in t he wa ll,
t h re w o ut eve r yth in g a nd had p eo pl e co me i n and do th at.
A n d o n l y afte r we w ere a bsolut el y assu red a nd it h ad been
c e rt i f i ed it w as cl ean , she th en m oved out and t he ho use
w e nt u p f or s a le, w ith e veryon e kn owin g wh a t the h ist ory o f
t h e h o u se was .

I n t h e ca se o f th e ass is tant, th e pers on w h o was t he news

d e sk a s si stan t , o pe ned t he fir st l ette r, w o rked fo r u s for
a n ot h e r c oupl e of y ear s, retir ed a bout a y e ar ag o, I guess ,
t o g o b ac k to her f ami ly life in M assa chus e tts.

W h en I wa s pr e par in g f or this ap pe aran ce h e re to da y, I

t h ou g h t l et’s see h ow fa r we’v e co me. Whe n Tom Ri dge was
S e cr e t a ry of H ome la nd Se curity , he cam e to New Y or k, we ha d
a pr i v a te din n er me eti ng with Da n, Pet er, a nd me , and a
r e pr e s e nt ativ e of C NN, a bout h ow p repa red w e wer e sho uld
t h er e b e anot h er bi olo gi cal at ta ck , or a d i rty b om b o f som e
k i nd . An d we wer e que st ioned fa ir ly c lose l y by Se cre tary
R i dg e , wh o wa s ne w on th e job an d only bee n ther e abo ut a
m o nt h .

H e s a i d w ell, how m uch d o you kn ow abo ut w h at yo u can put on

t h e a i r ? And I s ai d, wi th all d ue res pect , Mr. Se cre tary,
t h at ’ s yo ur j o b. W e’r e going to f ind out f rom y ou . And h e
s a id w e ll , ho w do w e g et that to y ou? And I sai d wel l, ho w
a b ou t a w ebsi t e? H ow ab out if y ou hav e a r eally
s o ph i s t ic ated web si te, w e put th at on the a ir, w e jus t go
d i re c t l y on t h e a ir wi th it.

S o I t h ou ght I wo ul d c he ck Hom el an d Se curi t y web si te befor e

I ca m e do wn h e re to day . I typ ed i n, a nthr a x att ac k. I go t
a ke y n o te add r ess b y t he Assis ta nt Sec reta r y of He alt h on
t h e m e a ni ng o f an a nth ra x atta ck ; rema rks b y the H ome land
S e cr e t a ry , Mi c hae l Che rt off; t es ti mony by a phys ic ian befo re
t h e H o u se of R epr es ent at ives; te st imon y of an as si sta nt
s e cr e t a ry and chi ef me di cal of fi ce r ab out h ow a pr oph ylaxi s
p r og r a m w ill b e i ni tia te d earl y, t o re duce the e co nom ic
i m pa c t of ant h rax ; I g ot almos t no inf orma t ion t ha t w ould be
u s ef u l to me i n t ha t c ul ture o f ch aos if I neede d hel p to
f i nd o u t wher e I go , w ha t it l oo ks lik e, a n d wha t the next
c o ur s e of act i on sh oul d be.

I t s e e m s to m e th at ju st a fun da me ntal too l woul d be a pag e

w i th l i nk s I h ave o f [ ph onetic ] Ne w Yo rk C i ty; I t hin k we’ ve
g o t a n an thra x at ta ck. Physic ia ns , pu blic healt h off icial s,
a n d l a w e nfor c eme nt of fi cials wh o can resp o nd to t his . Wh at
d o es i t l ook l ike ; gra ph ic pic tu re s. You k now, th is is wh at
c u ta n e o us ant h rax l ook s like; th is is what the c on seq uence s
s h ou l d be . T h e p ub lic h ealth gu id elin e is , if t he re is a
b i ol o g i ca l at t ack i t m ay not b e im medi atel y obvi ou s; are y ou
i n a g r ou p or are a whe re autho ri ti es c onsi d er yo u to be in
d a ng e r .

T h is i s p ubli c he al th 10 1. wh en I was in t he se ve nth -grad e,

t h is i s w hat y ou do ab ou t good h yg iene . T h is is n ot about
a d dr e s s in g a r eal b iol og ical t hr ea t, w hich as we k now coul d
h a ve f a r grea t er co nse qu ences th an it did i n our c ase ; and
i n o u r ca se, i t w as tr ag ic eno ug h. So tha t ’s wh y I’v e
b r ok e n my rul e ne ve r t o have t es ti fied bef o re a co mmi ssion
l i ke t h is or b efo re co ng ress, be ca use I th i nk it ’s ur gent
a n d I d on ’t w a nt it to h appen to a nyon e el s e, gi ve n w hat w e
w e nt t h ro ugh. Th an k y ou all, ve ry muc h.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you, M r. B roka w. D r. Ha mb urg .

D R . H A M BU RG: Tha nk yo u, Senat or G raha m, S e nator T ale nt,

o t he r c om miss i one rs an d distin gu is hed gues t s. I ’m ve ry
h o no r e d t o be her e tod ay , and hu mb led to s h are t he wi tness
t a bl e w it h a m edi a cel eb rity l ik e Mr. Brok a w.

M R . B R O KA W: W e’l l try t o get a me dia cele b rity fo r y ou.

[ L au g h t er ].

D R . H A M BU RG: I h av e b ee n aske d to add ress the c ur ren t

t h re a t of bio - ter ro ris m and ho w it ’s l ikel y to e vo lve in t he
c o mi n g de cade s , g iv en th e rapi d ad vanc es i n the li fe
s c ie n c e s and t he gl oba li zation o f the biot e chnol og y
i n du s t r y.

T o f ocus on pr eve nt ion—no t so muc h co n seque nc e

m a na g e m en t, a s we ’v e b ee n hear in g abou t—an d to e xa min e
s t ra t e g ie s to pre ve nt th e prol if er atio n of biolo gi cal
w e ap o n s a nd i t ’s de adl y conjun ct io n wi th t e rrori sm . My
i n te r e s t in b i o-t er ror is m bega n he re a s he a lth c om mis sione r,
d u ri n g th e 19 9 0s. It wa s frig ht en ing to t h ink a bo ut the
m a ny v u ln erab i lit ie s t ha t we m ig ht fac e, b u t it se eme d
m a in l y th eore t ica l unt il the W or ld Tra de C e nter wa s b ombed
t h e f i r st tim e . An d t he n sudd en ly , th e th r eat o f dom estic
t e rr o r i sm was rea l.

I n r etro s pec t, th at attac k, w hich was then so st unnin g

s e em s l ik e ch i ld’ s pla y compar ed t o th e at t acks of 9/ 11.
A n d f o r m e, t h e j ux tap os ition of t hose two event s ser ves a
s o be r i n g remi n der o f t he compe ll in g ne ed f o r act io n. Let us
n o t h a v e to m a ke th at sa me com pa ri son in t h e bio lo gic al
r e al m . O ur n a tio n has n ow exp er ie nced it’ s firs t let hal a ct
o f b i o - te rror i sm an d i t was a st ar tlin g, c h illin g, an d
d e ad l y se ries of ev ent s. Yet in s ome ways , we r em ain
d a ng e r o us ly c o mpl ac ent .

A n ot h e r a ttac k co ul d o cc ur at an y time , fr o m man y pot entia l

s o ur c e s , and u sin g man y potent ia l agen ts. Furth er mor e, th e
m a gn i t u de of s uch a n a tt ack co ul d be f ar g r eater t han what
w e ’v e e xp erie n ced . In t he nea r te rm, conv e ntion al at tacks
m a y r e m ai n th e mo st li ke ly mod e of ter rori s m, ye t the re ar e
m a ny r e as ons t o b el iev e that b io lo gica l ag e nts m ay be an
i n cr e a s in gly a ttr ac tiv e approa ch .

C e rt a i n ly , th e y c an pr od uce la rg e numb ers o f cas ua lti es,

p o te n t i al ly o n a sc ale t o deva st at e wh ole c ities , reg ions,
a n d p o s si bly t he en tir e nation a nd bey ond. Even w ith out
l a rg e n um bers , at ta cks w ith bi ol og ical age n ts ca n pro duce
e n or m o u s disr u pti on , f ee lings of v ulne rabi l ity, al ong with
p a ni c a nd ter r or, a s p eo ple st ru gg le t o un d ersta nd wh o is at
r i sk a n d what can b e d on e, as we ’v e ju st s o eloq ue ntl y
h e ar d .

O u tb r e a ks wit h co nt agi ou s dise as es tha t ca n spre ad pe rson-

t o -p e r s on are eve n mor e fright en in g. Trut h is, pr oba bly n o
s i ng l e te rror i st at tac k, no ma tt er how ter r ifyin g, ho w
h o rr i f y in g an d ca ta str op hic, c ou ld thr eate n the ve ry
s t ab i l i ty of o ur so cie ty and i ns ti tuti ons i n the w ay that
b i ol o g i ca l we a pon s cou ld , exce pt p erha ps, f or a nu cle ar
a t ta c k .

Y e t, u n li ke n u cle ar we ap ons, b io lo gica l we a pons ar e

r e la t i v el y in e xpe ns ive , easy t o pr oduc e, a n d sig ni fic ant
d a ma g e ca n be don e eve n in the a bs ence of l arge qu ant ities
o f m a t e ri al o r an e lab or ate de li ve ry s yste m . Pa th oge ns
s u it a b l e for b iow ea pon s can be c on ceal ed a n d tra ns por ted
w i th l i tt le d i ffi cu lty , and bi ow ea pons fac i litie s can be
h i dd e n wi thin rou ti ne re search l ab s, p harm a ceuti ca l
m a nu f a c tu ring sit es , a nd even br ew erie s.

M o st o r ga nism s of c onc er n are fo un d in nat u re as w ell as

l e gi t i m at ely s tud ie d i n govern me nt , ac adem i c, an d ind ustry
l a bs . Fo r so m e, de lib er ate us e of bio logi c al ag en ts may
h a ve s p ec ial a ppe al , b ec ause t he d elay ed o n set o f it’ s
e f fe c t s , make it ea sie r to esc ap e dete ctio n . Ad di ng to th e
c h al l e n ge is t he fa ct th at whi le e xtra ordi n ary a dv anc es in
m o de r n bi olog y an d lif e scienc es r esea rch, offer g rea t hop e
t o i m p r ov e he a lth a nd pr event di se ase. Th e y als o off er th e
t o ol s , th roug h ma le vol en ce, mi sa pp lica tion , or s he er
i n ad v e r te nce, to cr eat e new an d mo re d ange r ous o rg ani sms a s
w e ll a s i mpro v e m ec han is ms for d el iver y.

O v er a l l , the r eal it y i s that a cc es s to the mater ia ls and

k n ow - h o w to p r odu ce po te ntiall y ve ry s erio u s bio lo gic al
t h re a t s , beco m es ea sie r and mo re a cces sibl e ever y day . We
k n ow t h at Al- Q aed a is wo rking to g et t hese weapo ns . In
f a ct , O sa ma b i n L ad en ha s desc ri be d it as a reli gi ous duty .
A ru d i m en tary ant hr ax la b was fo un d by U.S . forc es in
A f gh a n i st an, b ut wh ile t hat ha s be en d isru p ted, th e d esire
t o p u r s ue bio l ogi ca l w ea pons r em ai ns i ntac t .

I n 2 0 0 3 , Al-Q a eda i ssu ed a Fat ta h, aut hori z ing t he us e of

b i ol o g i ca l, c h emi ca l, an d nucl ea r weap ons a gains t non -
M u sl i m s , and i n 2 00 6, Al -Qaeda r ep rese ntat i ves c al led for
s c ie n t i st s to joi n the J ihad t o he lp p rodu c e WMD .
 I n t heor y , a w ide r ange o f bi olog ical agent s cou ld be
i n te n t i on ally use d to ca use ha rm . How ever , most f ocu s has
b e en o n a sub s et of or ga nisms fe lt to pose the g re ate st
t h re a t to civ i lia n pop ul ations ; an thra x, s m allpo x, pl ague,
t u la r e m ia , vi r al he mor rh agic f ev er s, a nd b o tulin um to xin.

A n d w h i le we l arg el y t hi nk of bi ot erro rism as in fe cti ous

d i se a s e r elat e d, th e f ut ure of t he bio weap o ns th re at does
n o t h a v e to b e so . Ex pa nding in si ghts int o vari ou s b ody
s y st e m s o ffer new o ppo rt unitie s to dev elop tool th at will
d i sr u p t c riti c al fu nct io ns for l if e or beh a vior.

W i th a d va nces in bi ome di cal sc ie nc e, i nclu d ing s yn the tic

b i ol o g y , gene t ic en gin ee ring, ge no mics , an d the li ke, the
p o ss i b i li ties get m uch g reater . T he e xplo s ion o f kno wledg e
a b ou t t he fun d ame nt al bu ilding b lo cks of l i fe, a nd ho w to
m a ni p u l at e th e m, gi ve ne w unde rs ta ndin gs o f stag ge rin g and
u n pr e d i ct able pow er . Al ong wi th t his come s the gl oba l
s p re a d of exp e rti se an d equipm en t to s uppo r t bio te chn ology
a n d b i o lo gica l ma nu fac tu ring p ro ce sses .

W h en y o u cons i der w hat n efario us t hing s co u ld be d one with

t h e t o o ls of m ode rn bi ol ogy, t he p rosp ects are f ri ght ening .
E x am p l e s incl u de ae ros ol techn ol og y to del i ver i nf ect ious
a g en t s mo re e f fic ie ntl y into t he l ungs , fo r abso rp tio n; ge ne
t h er a p y v ecto r s t ha t c ou ld cau se p erma nent chang e in an
i n fe c t e d pers o n’s g ene ti c make up ; a st ealt h viru s tha t cou ld
l i e d o r ma nt i n sid e the v ictim un ti l tr igge r ed; o r bio logic al
a g en t s in tent i ona ll y e ng ineere d to be resi s tant to av ailab le
a n ti b i o ti cs, o r t o eva de the i mm un e sy stem .

I n e m e r gi ng c a pab il iti es , the cr ea tion of n ew fo rm s o f lif e,

d e n o v o , usin g th e tec hn iques of s ynth etic biolo gy , o r may be
n e w c l a ss es o f pa th oge ns , like c hi mera s, t h at mi gh t c ombin e
t h e m o s t frig h ten in g a sp ects o f tw o or gani s ms su ch as
s m al l p o x and E bol a, or s o-call ed b inar y ag e nts t ha t o nly
b e co m e ef fect i ve wh en tw o comp on en ts a re c o mbine d. A
d i st u r b in g ex a mpl e of th is inv ol ve s ta king a mil d pat hogen
t h at w h en com b ine d wit h its an ti do ter trea t ment, w oul d
a c tu a l l y be a c tiv at ed to becom e hi ghly vir u lent.

S o me o f t his r ema in s h yp otheti ca l, but sev e ral f ai rly rece nt

s t ud i e s h ave h eig ht ene d concer n. A: s tudy by Au st ral ian
r e se a r c he rs u s ing m ous ep ox [ph on et ic], is o ne ca se of ten
c i te d w he re a n in ad ver te nt exp er im enta l fi n ding la id out a
p o te n t i al rec i pe to ma ke an al re ad y da nger o us pa th oge n mor e
l e th a l . The c rea ti on of polio v ir us, de n o vo, a nd mo re
r e ce n t l y the 1 918 p and em ic str ai n flu, lit e rally u sin g DNA
f r ag m e n ts and equ ip men t ordere d fr om c atal o gs, u nd ers cores
t h at t h e capa b ili ti es fo r inte nt io nal crea t ion o f bio logic al
a g en t s fo r us e as w eap on s will b e incr easi n gly a va ila ble.

F r om a se curi t y p er spe ct ive, t he n atur al r e actio n is to tr y

t o f i g u re out how t o l im it the k in ds o f re s earch t hat may be
m i su s e d o r di s tor te d i n damagi ng w ays. Ye t , it’ s qui ckly
a p pa r e n t that whi le th e potent ia l for misa p plica ti on is
e x tr e m e ly rea l , t hi s s am e rese ar ch hol ds e n ormou s pow er fo r
g o od . As it t urn s out , it’s v er y diff icul t , if no t
i m po s s i bl e, t o de fi ne da ngerou s sc ienc e. A nd it ’s ce rtain ly
i m po s s i bl e to mon it or al l aspe ct s of r esea r ch th at mi ght
h a ve d e st ruct i ve ap pli ca tions.

S o t h e ch alle n ge mu st no t be s ee n as h ow t o stop t he advan ce

o f d a n g er ous s cie nc e, bu t how to c onst rain the
m i sa p p l ic atio n of s cie nt ific k no wl edge and capab il ity
w i th o u t d amag i ng th e a dv anceme nt o f sc ienc e . A si mil ar
c h al l e n ge exi s ts wi th re spect to r educ ing a ccess t o
d a ng e r o us pat h oge ns an d streng th en ing labo r atory
b i os e c u ri ty. New m eas ur es in th e U.S. hav e tigh te ned acce ss
t o b i o l og ical mat er ial a nd the g ov ernm ent’ s abil it y t o
m o ni t o r t he t r ans fe r, st orage, a nd use of c ertai n age nts.

B u t t h e r ecen t ch ar ge th at a g ov er nmen t bi o defen se sc ienti st

w a s r e s po nsib l e f or th e deadly 2 00 1 an thra x mail in gs, and
g o t t h e m ater i al fr om a resear ch l ab, has b rough t ren ewed
c o nc e r n . The s e i ss ues h ave be co me eve n mo r e pre ss ing with
t h e r a p id exp a nsi on of b iodefe ns e rese arch that ha s o ccurr ed
i n r e s p on se t o th e bio -t errori sm t hrea t. B y inc re asi ng th e
n u mb e r s o f fa c ili ti es an d peop le w orki ng w i th da ng ero us
p a th o g e ns , it ’ s a lm ost i nevita bl e that the risks f or
m a lf e a s an ce o r ac ci den t will e nl ar ge.

T h us , i t is n o t s ur pri si ng tha t ther e’ s a g ro win g sen se of

u n ea s e as to w het he r o ur curre nt b iode fens e rese ar ch
p o li c i e s and p rog ra ms ar e crea ti ng new vul n erabi li tie s.
T h is m u st be a ddr es sed . A str on g, wel l fu n ded, an d
c a re f u l ly dev e lop ed re se arch a ge nd a is vit a l to ou r f uture
s e cu r i t y. Qu a lit y res po nsible r es earc h co u ld pr ov ide us
w i th t h e tool s an d cou nt ermeas ur es to diag n ose, tr eat , and
p r ev e n t m any d ise as es, b oth na tu ra lly occu r ring an d
d e li b e r at ely c aus ed .

A n d i f we dev e lop t he ri ght ar ma me ntar ium o f eff ec tiv e

c o un t e r me asur e s, it ul ti mately c ou ld r educ e the
a t tr a c t iv enes s of b iol og ical t er ro rism , pe r haps ev en
e l im i n a te bio l ogi ca l a ge nts as e ff ecti ve w e apons o f m ass
d e st r u c ti on o r di sr upt io n. Ye t, i t’s not u nreas on abl e tha t
q u es t i o ns are bei ng as ke d abou t th e sc ope o f cur re nt
a c ti v i t ie s an d th e ade qu acy of o ve rsig ht m e asure s.

S o w h a t c an b e do ne ? Th ere ar e no eas y or compl et e

s o lu t i o ns to e nsu re ad eq uate o ve rs ight of b iosec ur ity ,
i n cl u d i ng the res po nsi bl e stew ar ds hip of r e searc h
a c ti v i t ie s, k n owl ed ge, a nd mat er ia ls. Str a tegie s wil l not
m i rr o r tr adit i ona l app ro aches to a rms cont r ol an d
n o np r o l if erat i on. Suc ce ss wil l re quir e ne w syst em s o f
g o ve r n m en t an d wi ll re qu ire in di vi dual , co m munit y, an d
g o ve r n m en t-dr i ven s tra te gies.

S c ie n c e i s at onc e the p ractic e an d pr oduc t of i nd ivi dual

s c ie n t i st s, a n d t he ou tg rowth of s cien tist - to-sc ie nti st
c o ll a b o ra tion s . Im por ta nt lif e sc ienc es r e searc h tod ay is
a s l i k e ly to o ccu r in a privat e bi otec h co m pany or ac ademi c
l a b, a s i n a g ove rn men t facili ty .

A n e f f e ct ive a ppr oa ch ca nnot r ef le ct a mod e l bas ed so lely on

t o p- d o w n, gov e rnm en t r eg ulatio ns a nd l egal requi re men ts.
M e an i n g fu l so l uti on s w il l requ ir e the full engag em ent of t he
s c ie n t i fi c co m mun it y a nd a mix o f stra tegi e s inc lu din g leg al
r e gu l a t io ns, p rof es sio na l stan da rd s, a nd c o des o f con duct.
A n d a f un dame n tal s hif t in awa re ne ss a nd a c count ab ili ty
a b ou t h ow sci e nce i s d on e, the s o- call ed e t hos o f sci ence.

M o re o v e r, non e of t he me asures a im ed a t st r ength en ing

b i os e c u ri ty a n d r es tra in ing th e po tent ial f or mi sa ppl icati on
o f s c i e nc e wi l l b e suc ce ssful if n ot t aken on an
i n te r n a ti onal bas is . In today ’s w orld , sc i ence is an
i n he r e n tl y gl o bal e nte rp rise, sp an ning sec t ors a s wel l as
n a ti o n s . Sci e nti fi c k no wledge i s rapi dly d issem in ate d,
m a te r i a ls are wid el y a va ilable , an d sc ient i sts t ra in,
c o nd u c t r esea r ch, a nd co llabor at e acro ss n a tiona l
b o un d a r ie s.

B i ot e c h no logy is be com in g an i nc re asin gly g lobal iz ed field

o f e n d e av or, w ith n ew fa ciliti es , cadr es o f rese ar che rs, a nd
s o ph i s t ic ated sci en ce sp ringin g up all ove r the de vel oped,
a n d d e v el opin g , w or ld. Nation al i niti ativ e s are e sse ntial
a n d w e mu st c o nti nu e t o streng th en and imp r ove o ur ef forts ,
a n d e n c ou rage oth er co un tries to d o so as w ell. B ut the
l a ck o f c oord i nat ed un if orm in te rn atio nal s tanda rd s a nd
g u id e l i ne s cr e ate s gap s and vu ln er abil itie s that u nde rmine
o u r c o m mo n go a ls.

R e al i s t ic ally , we n eed a frame wo rk of laws and p ol ici es th at

a r e s u p po rted by sc ien ti sts, a gr ee d to by g overn me nts , and
r e fl e c t ed in h arm on ize d nation al p olic ies a nd le gi sla tion
a d dr e s s in g su c h a re as as rules f or acc ess a nd ac co unt abili ty
f o r d a n ge rous pat ho gen s in lab s; a nd r egis t ratio n and
l i ce n s i ng of f aci li tie s workin g wi th t hese patho ge ns;
s t an d a r ds for per so nne l screen in g and trai n ing; st and ards
f o r p h y si cal s afe ty an d securi ty a t th ese f acili ti es.

T e ch n i c al ass i sta nc e a nd suppo rt w ill be e s senti al in maki ng

t h is p o ss ible , an d to th e grea te st deg ree p ossib le ,
b i od e f e ns e pr o gra ms sh ou ld be tr an spar ent w ith s ha rin g of
i n fo r m a ti on.

O n e l a s t thou g ht, i n c lo sing. I t is c lear that ma ny aspec ts

o f t h e bi owea p ons t hre at defy tr ad itio nal w ays o f thi nking
a b ou t p re vent i on, d ete rr ents, an d non- prol i ferat io n. In
t h is r e ga rd, a s w e con si der th e im port ant s teps ne ede d to
r e du c e or pre v ent t he th reat o f bi o-te rror i sm, i t is
e s se n t i al to r eco gn ize t hat pr ep ar edne ss i s , in fa ct, an
i m po r t a nt ele m ent o f p re ventio n. For a de t ermin ed
t e rr o r i st , li m iti ng ac ce ss to th e tool s of bio-t er ror ism m ay
p r ov e a n ear i mpo ss ibl e task. T hu s, w e ne e d a m ul tif acete d
a p pr o a c h.

W e m u s t b egin bef or e a n event oc cu rs, doin g ever yt hin g we

c a n t o re duce the c apa bi lity a nd o ppor tuni t y for a tta ck.
B u t e v e n if w e ca n’ t p re vent a n at tack , we can p re ven t
c a la m i t y thro u gh we ll de signed a nd fun ded p rogra ms to
e n ha n c e s urve i lla nc e d et ection a nd ear ly w a rning ; res earch
a n d m e d ic al c o unt er -me as ure; d ev el opme nt a n d sto ck pil ing;
m o bi l i z at ion o f r es pon se , incl ud in g pu blic healt h con trol
a n d m e d ic al c a re, a nd re covery .

T h e m o r e effe c tiv el y w e are pr ep ar ed t o re s pond sh oul d an

a t ta c k oc cur, the g rea te r the li ke liho od t h at we c an limit
d a ma g e , s ave l ive s, co nt rol pa ni c, and re- e stabl is h
n o rm a l c y. Th i s w il l r ea ssure th e publ ic, r educe t err or, a nd
s e nd a po werf u l d et err en t mess ag e to t hose who w is h t o use
b i ol o g i ca l ag e nts a s w ea pons o f ma ss t erro r or d es tru ction .
T h an k y ou ver y mu ch , f or this op po rtun ity t o tal k wit h you
a b ou t o ne imp o rta nt pi ec e of t he b io-t erro r ism c ha lle nge.
A n d I w il l be hap py to a nswer an y ques tion s you ma y h ave.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you ve ry m uch, doc t or. Co mmi ssion er

C l ev e l a nd .

C O MM . R OB IN C L EVE LA ND: Thank yo u. Th ank y ou, M r. Br okaw,

f o r a n ex trao r din ar ily p ersona l, h owev er h a rrowi ng , a ccoun t.
I t s e r v es the pur po se th at I t hi nk tha t we all a gr ee on,
w h ic h i s to e d uca te th e public w e need to u nders ta nd bette r
w h at h a pp ened to yo u a nd to yo ur a ssis tant .
A n d t o th at e n d, it se em s to m e th at p reve n tion an d
d e te r r e nt s ar e im pr ove d if ter ro ri sts beli e ve th ey ’ll be
d e ni e d th eir o bje ct ive s. And th at in turn , turn s on publi c
c o nf i d e nc e th a t w e hav e health s ur veil lanc e syst em s i n
p l ac e , th at w e ha ve in fo rmatio n av aila ble t o the p ubl ic, a nd
t h at t h e resp o nse w ill b e effe ct iv e. You’ v e des cr ibe a
t h or o u g hl y ha r row in g s ce nario, a s I sa id, w here th at
i n fo r m a ti on w a s n ot av ai lable.

O n t h e ot her h and , the re ’s a f un da ment al t e nsion , it seems

t o m e , th at i f yo u bea t the dr um o f in form a tion co nst antly ,
y o u c a n b e ac c use d as a govern me nt , of fea r mong er ing .
G i ve n y ou r lo n g h is tor y in eva lu at ing the i nform at ion and
t h e i m p ac t of inf or mat io n on s oc ie ty, how w ould yo u s trike
t h at b a la nce, in te rms o f how mu ch inf orma t ion s ho uld be
m a de a v ai labl e to t he pu blic o n a regu lar b asis? Wha t kin d
o f i n f o rm atio n mi gh t b e made a va il able , ve r sus t he ca ution
t h at w e ’v e he a rd fr om so me of ou r peop le.

M R . B R O KA W: W ell , in fa ct, th at w as a con s idera ti on of ou rs

i n t h e he at o f th e dec is ion-ma ki ng tha t we were do ing at t he
t i me . I thin k it ’s fa ir to sa y, a nd w ith j ustif ic ati on,
t h at m y a ssis t ant w as a good d ea l more ske p tical t han the
r e st o f u s. B ut th e i nf ormati on t hat she w as ge tt ing was
e r ro n e o us . W e we re in cl ined t o be liev e th a t aft er th ree o r
f o ur s o -c alle d sp ec ial is ts tol d us it was a brow n rec lusiv e
s p id e r , t hat i n f ac t, it was a b ro wn r eclu s ive s pi der .

A n d at o n e p oi nt, I remem be r sayi ng t o my a ss ist ant, we

h a ve t o a ct o n wh at we k now. We ll , wh at w e didn ’t kn ow at
t h e t i m e is t h at we we re being m is led. No t inte nt ion ally,
b u t t h r ou gh i g nor an ce. I hone st ly bel ieve if th e pub lic,
e s pe c i a ll y in thi s inf or mation a ge , ha s an enorm ou s c apaci ty
f o r s o r ti ng o u t w ha t c ou nts an d wh at d oesn ’ t. A nd I think
w h at t h ey nee d , w ha t t he publi c ne eds, gen e rally , is just
r e li a b l e, aut h ent ic , o ff icial so ur ces of i n forma ti on that
a r e e a s il y ac c ess ib le to them.

T h ey d o n’ t ha v e t o be de scribe d in hys teri c al te rm s, but

t h er e o ug ht t o be a wa y, in th is w orld in w hich we li ve,
t h at y o u can h it wi th tw o key- st ro kes and f ind o ut wh at
c u ta n e o us ant h rax l ook s like. Y ou kno w, a n d eve n do a col or
p i ct u r e o f it , if n ece ss ary; o r th ese are e xampl es yo u can
f i nd i n m edic a l t ex tbo ok s and a lo t of oth e r pla ce s. Why
n o t l e t t he p u bli c kno w so tha t th ey d on’t call in wi th a
m o sq u i t o bite and s ay I’ ve got c ut aneo us a n thrax .

T h e f a c t of t h e m at ter i s that —f or all the hyste ri a a bout

w h at ’ s go ing o n, es pec ia lly in t he pol itic a l are na no w—our
i n cl i n a ti on i n jo ur nal is m is t o do pub lic s ervic e and to
p r ov i d e p eopl e wi th th e kind o f in form atio n they n eed , in a
n o n- h y s te rica l , f ac tua l basis. Bu t we als o have t o h ave
a c ce s s to qua l ity i nfo rm ation.

A n d t h e b est w ay to co nv ey tha t is thr ough the w id e r each of

t h e W o r ld Wid e We b, it s eems t o me , an d to have fa r m ore
s o ph i s t ic ated and i n-d ep th sit es a vail able , eith er th rough
p u bl i c he alth ser vi ces , or thr ou gh the Hom e land Se cur ity
D e pa r t m en t, o r th ro ugh t he CDC . I did n’t g o to th e C DC in
t h is c a se , I w ent t o H om eland Se cu rity , be c ause we ha d
i n it i a t ed tha t co nv ers at ion. It m ay e xist there , for all I
k n ow . Bu t th e re ou ght t o be a s im ple gath e ring po int .

C O MM . C LE VELA N D: I th in k ther e is inf orma t ion o n the CDC

w e bs i t e o n an t hra x. S en ator N un n, who pre c eded yo u,
s u gg e s t ed tha t we i nvo lv e the me di a in war games , in terms
o f p l a n ni ng s c ena ri os fo r a nu cl ea r ev ent, and i t wou ld
c e rt a i n ly per t ain i n t he biowo rl d as w ell.

G i ve n th e me di a’s v iew of i t’ s in depe n dence , do you

t h in k t ha t go v ern me nt sp onsore d tr aini ng f o r jou rn ali sts, to
p r ep a r e t hem f or ma nag in g info rm at ion flow in a cr isi s,
m a ke s s en se? Sho ul d t he re be mo re for mal o r lea ve it as a n
i n fo r m a l… ?

M R . B R O KA W: L ook , it’ s a tric ky p iece . I t woul d be easy if

t h is w e re phy s ics a nd we can s ay x -to the— I don’ t wan t to
g e t t o o d eepl y in to ph ys ics, b ec au se t hat’ s why I’ m i n
j o ur n a l is m, b y th e way . [Laug ht er ]. But i t wou ld be easi er
t h er e w er e a h ard a nd fa st for mu la , bu t th e re’s no t. And so
w h at y o u need is to ha ve a con ti nu ing dial o gue.

I me a n on e of the c onc er ns I h av e at o ur o r ganiz at ion , and

I ’ m c o n fi dent thi s is tr ue thr ou gh out New Y ork C it y;
t o mo r r o w, it h as be en se ven-ye ar s sinc e th e atta ck ; o ur
g u ar d h as bee n lo we red a lot. Y ou kno w, w e don’ t hav e the
b u ll e t i ns tha t we o nce d id and p eo ple are n ot th in kin g abo ut
i t i n t he sam e wa y. S o if som et hi ng s imil a r wer e to happe n
a g ai n , it wou l d b e imp ro visati on al res pons e , for t he most
p a rt ; ‘ ca use I do n’ t k no w how go od the sys t ems a re , s till at
t h is p o in t.

S o I t h in k yo u do h ave t o open a d ialo gue a nd ra is e t he

c o ns c i o us ness of it , a nd know wh er e th at l i ne is t hat you
d o n’ t g o over , an d in so me fal se w ay, caus e hyst er ia. I
h a pp e n to thi n k t ha t i t’ s poss ib le . Y ou c a n fin d out , as
t h os e m em bers of co ngr es s who ar e sitt ing o n the p ane l kno w,
t h at i f y ou’r e ou t the re and y ou w ant to k n ow ab ou t b reedi ng
h o gs o r p ulle t s, or an yt hing e ls e, you can go to t he
D e pa r t m en t of Agr ic ult ur e and ge t very sop h istic at ed
i n fo r m a ti on a b out i t. Y ou can ’t , in t his a rea, ye t.

A n d I t hi nk t h at we ca n do it an d you need to ha ve mo re
p u bl i c in terc o urs e abo ut it, a g re ater dia l ogue, i n w hich
p e op l e ar e ta l kin g abo ut it. Bu t agai n, i t ’s kn ow ing wher e
t h e l i n e is a n d t he re’ s a grea t li ne i n ou r busi ne ss— we
a l wa y s sa y th e y k ee p m ov ing th at s ucke r. [ Laugh te r]. So
i t ’s , y ou kno w , d et erm in ed by go od wil l on the p ar t o f
j o ur n a l is ts a n d l oc al of ficial s an d fe dera l offi ci als .

D R . H A M BU RG: Can I ju st add a n ad diti onal thoug ht on this .

I t i s a bs olut e ly es sen ti al tha t th ere be s y stems f or quali ty
i n fo r m a ti on i n th e mid st of a cr is is. And one o f the grea t
c h al l e n ge s—an d it i s a ct ually a ru le o f ph y sics th at
b e li e v e s that the re ar e altern at iv e un iver s es al l goi ng on
a t t h e sa me t i me— we ll, i n a cr is is the re’s alter na tiv e
s o ur c e s o f in f orm at ion , and of te n ther e’s a grea t dea l of
m i si n f o rm atio n as w ell a s sour ce s of c orre c t, ac cu rat e, an d
t i me l y in form a tio n. A nd so th e co ordi nati o n of ge tti ng th e
q u al i t y i nfor m ati on fo rw ard an d av aila ble, and l et tin g
p e op l e kn ow w h ere t hey c an acc es s that inf o rmati on , i s ver y
i m po r t a nt .

I t i s a ls o ke y to h ave i nforma ti on ava ilab l e bef or e a

c r is i s , b ecau s e d ur ing a crisi s, p eopl e do n ’t he ar we ll,
t h ey d o n’ t re a lly i nte gr ate th e in form atio n that t hey ’re
h e ar i n g , and i t’s m uch h arder to a ct i n th e appr op ria te an d
n e ce s s a ry way s . So wh il e ther e is the con c ern a bo ut fear
m o ng e r i ng , an d th er e a ls o has al wa ys b een a tens io n a bout,
i f w e t al k ab o ut so me of these i ss ues will we be t ell ing o ur
e n em i e s w here our v uln er abilit ie s are as w e ll.

B u t I t hi nk i t ’s ab sol ut ely es se nt ial that we wo rk wi th th e

p u bl i c , t hat w e w or k w it h the me di a, w ith t he fu ll ra nge o f
s t ak e h o ld ers a nd pa rtn er s, in re sp ondi ng t o a bi ol ogi cal
a t ta c k ; a nd t h at we do n’ t just g iv e th em i n forma ti on, but we
a c tu a l l y plan tog et her a nd pra ct ic e wh at w e plan , bec ause
y o u w a n t to h a ve as mu ch under st an ding and as ma ny re flexe s
i n p l a c e, so t hat w hen t hat cr is is eve nt a c tuall y occ urs,
p e op l e wo n’t b e h ea rin g about an th rax for t he fi rs t t ime,
a n d p e o pl e wo n ’t be ne ed ing cr it ic al p artn e rs in r esp onse
f o r t h e f irst tim e as we ll.

C O MM . C LE VELA N D: I ca n see PS As o n an thra x comi ng . Dr.

H a mb u r g , can I as k you o ne que st io n on —you said in yo ur
t e st i m o ny tha t —
C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: [ Int er posing ] Ms . Cl evel a nd, c ou ld you
l e an i n to the mic ro pho ne a lit tl e bit. Pl e ase? T han ks.

C O MM . C LE VELA N D: Y ou sa id in yo ur tes timo n y tha t we need to

w o rk c l os ely w ith t he sc ientif ic c ommu nity to re du ce risks
i n w a y s t hat w ill b e m ea ningfu l bu t no t cu m berso me . How d o
y o u s e e b ring i ng th e s ci ence c om mu nity tog e ther to co mpass
s o me c o ns ensu s on w hat g uideli ne s shou ld b e and th en, more
s p ec i f i ca lly, wha t kin d of enf or ce ment or w hat k in d o f bod y
o r m e c h an ism c an be pu t in pla ce t o ma ke s u re th at bo th
d o me s t i ca lly a nd in ter na tional ly , we h ave a comm on se t of
s t an d a r ds tha t im pr ove b iosafe ty a nd s ecur i ty?

D R . H A M BU RG: Wel l, it i s a hu ge c hall enge . Pro gr ess has

b e en m a de and it ha s c om e in d if fe rent way s from t he
s c ie n t i fi c co m mun it y m ob ilizin g it self , to recog ni ze and
a c kn o w l ed ge t h e r ol e i t plays in r educ ing t he ri sk , a nd it ’s
r e sp o n s ib ilit i es as st ew ards o f go od s cien c e. A nd th at ha s
t a ke n t im e an d we ’r e s ti ll in th e proc ess, becau se mo st
b i om e d i ca l sc i ent is ts be lieve th ey ’re wear i ng th e whi te
h a ts ; t ha t wh a t t he y’r e doing is t o pr even t dise as e a nd to
p r om o t e h ealt h .

A n d o f co urse , th at we ’r e to g o fo rwar d an d to u nd ers tand

t h at t h er e is thi s dar k side t o ad vanc es i n medi ci ne, is
s o me t i m es dif f icu lt to a ccept. Bu t a lot o f wor k has been
d o ne . Le ader s hip h as co me fro m a numb er o f scie nt ifi c
o r ga n i z at ions and f rom a numbe r of imp orta n t stu di es that I
c o ul d s ha re w i th th e c om missio n ou t of the Natio na l A cadem y
o f S c i e nc es, t hat h ave b rought t og ethe r ex p erts in sc ience
a n d s e c ur ity, to lo ok at how c an w e be gin t o def in e t he
c r it i c a l area s in t erm s of res ea rc h ag enda s , in te rms of
m e th o d s f or s e cur in g p at hogens i n labo rato r y set ti ngs , et
c e te r a .

L e ga l , bi ndin g , e nf orc ea ble le ga l stan dard s are im por tant as

w e ll . An d as I s ai d o n both a n at iona l an d an i nt ern ation al
l e ve l , I thin k , w it h r es pect t o is sues lik e over si ght of
s t or a g e u se a n d h an dli ng of da ng er ous path o gens;
r e gi s t r at ion o f f ac ili ti es tha t wo rk w ith d anger ou s
p a th o g e ns ; sc r een in g o f person ne l; req uire m ents fo r o ngoin g
t r ai n i n g of p e rso nn el; a ll of th os e th ings we ca n dev elop
g u id e l i ne s th a t w il l i mp rove t he l evel of s ecuri ty . The
d a ng e r is tha t ma ny of t he gui de li nes [tha t ] hav e [be en]
[ p ho n e t ic ] do n e w it hou t full i np ut of the s cient if ic
c o mm u n i ty can act ua lly b e harm fu l or j ust p lain si lly .

E a rl y o n, the r e w as so me legis la ti on t hat w as de si gne d at

g e tt i n g a t th i s q ue sti on of ac qu is itio n of dange ro us
p a th o g e ns . A n d t he in it ial la ng ua ge m ade i t a c ri min al ac t
t o h a v e m icro b ial a gen ts for a ny r easo n ot h er th an
l e gi t i m at e re s ear ch . An d in e ff ec t, t hat w ould ma ke havin g
m o ld o n b read in yo ur re friger at or , a crim i nal a ct , a nd
p r ob a b l y an e v en wo rse c rime s ho ul d yo u co m e dow n wit h the
f l u.

S o , y o u k now, it is im po rtant— th at ’s t he e x treme —b ut in ma ny

w a ys , s om e of the p res en t rule s an d re gula t ions, s ome of t he
e x is t i n g lega l fr am ewo rk is di st ur bing to m any s ci ent ists
w h o f e e l that wha t it’ s effect iv el y do ing i s jus t mak ing i t
h a rd e r an d ha r der t o d o resear ch i n th e bi o defen se ar ena o r
w i th c e rt ain p ath og ens . But i t’ s not actu a lly s er vin g to
m a ke s c ie nce s afe r, be ca use it c er tain ly i s not a gun s and
g u ar d s ki nd o f so lu tio n.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: t han k you, M ad am com miss i oner.

C o mm i s s io ner V erm a.

C O MM . V ER MA: I k no w o ur time is s hort so I ’ll b e ver y

b r ie f . A nd j u st on e q ue stion fo r Dr. Hamb u rg an d one
q u es t i o n for M r. Br oka w. Dr. Ha mb urg, the r e is a lot that
w e c a n an d st i ll sh oul d do in th e area of r egula ti ons and
i n te r n a ti onal coo pe rat io n, and n ew rul es a n d gre at er
o v er s i g ht . B u t a l ot of what ca n be d one i n thi s bio area ,
c a n b e do ne b y th e sci en tists th em selv es, a nd it r equ ires a
c u lt u r e o f re s pon si bil it y in a n et hos.

F o r e x a mp le, i nte ll ige nc e gath er in g in thi s area i s

e x tr e m e ly dif f icu lt be ca use of te n the prog r ams a re so
c o mp a r t me nted and t her e’ s only a f ew p eopl e work in g o n it.
A n d y o u r ely u pon o the r scient is ts to basi c ally re por t upo n
s u sp i c i ou s be h avi or or c ome fo rw ar d wi th s o me de ta ils that
t h e l a w e nfor c eme nt co mm unity ne ed s. Is t h e sci en ce
c o mm u n i ty the r e? A re th ey rea dy t o ta ke o n that
r e sp o n s ib ilit y , a nd if n ot, ho w do we get t hem t he re?

D R . H A M BU RG: I t hi nk th ere is i nc reas ing r ecogn it ion on

b o th s i de s, t h e s ci ent if ic com mu ni ty a nd t h e int el lig ence
c o mm u n i ty , of the n eed f or gre at er par tner s hip. A nd it’s
c o mi n g al ong s low ly . It certa in ly is at a much be tte r pla ce
t h an i t w as w h en I fir st start ed w orki ng i n this a rea .

B u t y o u h ave v ery d iff er ent pr of es sion al c u lture s, ve ry

d i ff e r e nt way s of d oin g things , an d fr ankl y , you k now ,
c o ns i d e ra ble s usp ic ion a nd mis un de rsta ndin g abou t the ways
i n w h i c h thes e di ff ere nt commu ni ti es w ork. But it is
a b so l u t el y es s ent ia l, wh en we th in k ab out t he bi ol ogi cal
t h re a t , t hat t he in tel li gence co mm unit y wo r ks mo re cl osely
w i th t h e scie n tif ic co mm unity an d the publ i c hea lt h
c o mm u n i ty , be c aus e muc h, as yo u sa y, m uch o f the i nfo rmati on
t h at i s v ital to un der st anding t he thr eat n ow an d the
e v ol v i n g thre a t, ac tua ll y exis ts o utsi de t h e int el lig ence
c o mm u n i ty .

A n d t h e b est w ay to ac ce ss it is t hrou gh c o nnect in g w ith t he

e x pe r t s a nd g a ugi ng th e scient is ts who kno w what ’s be ing
d o ne , b y whom , an d wha t the pu rp os e of tha t work i s. You
a l so n e ed muc h gr ea ter s cienti fi c expe rtis e in o rd er to
a n al y z e m uch o f t he in fo rmatio n th at c omes into th e
i n te l l i ge nce c omm un ity , to bot h co llec t an d anal yz e.

A n d s o wi thin the i nte ll igence c om muni ty, w e’re se ein g now ,

a n d I h op e it wil l acc el erate, a s tren gthe n ing o f sci entif ic
c a pa c i t y and e xpe rt ise . But a ls o, eff orts to re ac h o ut an d
f o rm v i ta l wo r kin g par tn ership s wi th o ther s outs id e t he
t r ad i t i on al i n tel li gen ce commu ni ty , an d in parti cu lar , in
t h e s c i en tifi c co mm uni ty .

C O MM . V ER MA: Tha nk yo u. Mr. Br ok aw, one o f the t hin gs th at

y o u t a u gh t us , bo th in y our wo rk o n TV and in yo ur bo oks, is
l e ss o n s t o be lea rn ed fr om his to ry . A nd y o ur bo ok s o n The
G r ea t e s t Gene r ati on we re a gif t to thi s ge n erati on an d
f u tu r e ge nera t ion s, ab ou t the sa cr ific e an d the se rvi ce, a nd
w h at w e nt wro n g a nd wh at went ri gh t du ring that cr iti cal
p e ri o d .

O n t h e ev e of thi s sev en th ann iv er sary of 9 /11, as yo u loo k

b a ck o v er the s e s ev en- ye ars, b ot h sinc e th e atta ck on the
c o un t r y a nd t h e a nt hra x attack s, a nd l ivin g in t hi s n ew er a
o f t e r r or ism, wha t are t he les so ns fro m th i s per io d f or
f u tu r e ge nera t ion s? W ha t have w e done rig h t? W ha t h ave w e
d o ne w r on g? I kn ow it ’s a big q ue stio n, b u t we’ d be
i n te r e s te d in you r vie ws on wh at i t is fut u re ge ne rat ions
a r e g o i ng to t ake f rom t his pe ri od .

M R . B R O KA W: T han k you f or the o pp ortu nity to al lo w m e to

w a nd e r in to a pol it ica l minefi el d [pho neti c ]. [ La ugh ter].
I su p p o se the str on ges t feelin g th at I hav e , for t he last
s e ve n - y ea rs, i s t ha t t he attac k he re i n Ne w York C ity , in
m a ny w a ys , co n gea le d A me rica. I t brou ght u s all t oge ther
a g ai n . I n a w ay th at we had b ee n divi ded u p—I w ro te anoth er
b o ok c a ll ed, B oom , abo ut the s ix ti es. One of th e
c o ns e q u en ces o f t he si xt ies is t ha t we bec a me a ve ry
f r ac t u r ed nat i on, c ult ur ally, po li tica lly, and o th erw ise;
w i th l o ts of i nte re st gr oups b um pi ng u p ag a inst ot her
i n te r e s t grou p s.
B u t i f yo u tu r n—h it th e rewind t ap e on you r memo ry of 9/11 —
w e w e r e a ll i n th is to ge ther, an d what doe s it m ea n. And
t h er e ’ s b een a ki nd of d riftin g ap art agai n , it se ems to m e.
A n d I ’ m n ot t a lki ng ab ou t this p re side ntia l race . I’ ve
s p en t a l ot o f ti me in t his co un tr y, o ut a c ross th e
h i nt e r l an ds. I g re w u p in the G re at P lain s , I s pe nt a lot
o f t i m e i n th e Ro ck y M ou ntain We st , an d ju s t the n atu re of
w h at I do , I’ m in t he So uthwes t, a nd i n th e Deep S out h, an d
t h er e ’ s a kin d of r egi on al int er es t in pla y .

A n d I t hi nk o n e o f the l essons t ha t we all have to ha ve in

t h e g r e at suc c ess o f o ur socie ty a nd o ur n a tion, a nd our
s y st e m of gov e rnm en t, is that th is imm igra n t nat io n h as
a l wa y s be en m o re th an th e sum of i t’s part s , for a ll that’ s
c o ns i d e ra ble p owe r. A nd we ne ed t o th ink a gain ab out that ,
a n d i t ha s ap p lic at ion t o this t hr eat. An d we a ls o h ave t o
r e mi n d ou rsel v es th at we live on a muc h mo r e cro wd ed plane t
t h at ’ s mu ch s m all er no w. And th at we have an in te rac tion
t h at i s r equi r ed of us w ith cu lt ur es t hat w e’ve no t h ad in
t h e p a s t.

A n d I ’ v e spen t a lo t o f time g oi ng aro und t he wo rl d, there ’s

e n or m o u s affe c tio n for t he Ame ri ca n dr eam, but t he re is a
r i si n g le vel o f h os til it y as w el l, abo ut o u r
p r es u m p tu ousn e ss. And s o I th in k thos e ar e thin gs th at we
h a ve t o a ddre s s a nd th at I wou ld h ope that would c ome out of
a l l o f th is. I c ou ld go on at m uc h gr eate r leng th , ‘ cause
I ’ ve w r it ten a bou t it so me as we ll , bu t I t hink th at a big
p a rt o f w hat w e’r e dea li ng wit h, f rank ly, i s tha t we have to
h a ve a mu ch m o re im agi na tive a pp ro ach to c u ltura l
u n de r s t an ding tha n we ha ve had . W e’ve got to wo rk ha rder at
it.

I f i t w er e le f t t o me, o ne of th e thin gs t h at I wo uld do i s,

I wo u l d d evel o p w ha t I c all th e di plom atic socia l for ces.
W e ’v e g ot the fin es t m il itary sp ec ial forc e s in th e w orld; I
w o ul d c re ate t he di plo ma tic so ci al for ces t hat w ou ld be
P e ac e C or p pl u s. I wo ul d take a dv entu rous young p eop le wh o
w a nt t o s erve the ir co un try, a nd t here are an un to ld numbe r
o f t h e m o ut t h ere , and g et the m gr eat lang u age t ra ini ng, p ay
t h em a pr emiu m sa la ry, a nd let t he m wo rk o n hear ts an d min ds
i n c r e a ti ng t h e b ri dge s that a re g oing to b e req ui red , for
u s t o a ll go f orw ar d.

L o ok , e ve rybo d y w ho sa w the op en in g of the Olymp ic s, I thi nk

i t w a s a real att en tio n getter f or thi s co u ntry in a lot o f
w a ys . Yo u kn o w, we ’re c ompeti ng i n a diff e rent en vir onmen t
t h an w e w ere j ust 2 0-y ea rs ago .
C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: M r. Br okaw, Dr . Hamb urg, thank y ou very
m u ch . Th is i s an a rea u nlike ou r prev ious discu ss ion on
n u cl e a r t erro r ism , whi ch I thi nk t he A meri c an pe op le are
j u st b e co ming awa re of t he pot en ti al c onse q uence s and the
s i gn i f i ca nt c h all en ges t hat we a re goi ng t o face i n
a t te m p t in g to con ta in th e risk t ha t wo uld l ead t o tho se
c o ns e q u en ces. An d you ’v e made a s igni fica n t con tr ibu tion to
o u r c o m mi ssio n ’s wo rk in this re ga rd, for w hich we ar e ver y
a p pr e c i at ive.

M R . B R O KA W: T han k you v ery mu ch . Tha nk y o u, se na tor .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: I ’m so rry th at w e we re u n able to go to

o p en c o mm issi o ner ’s qu es tions to t his pane l . Ou r fin al
t h re e p an elis t s h av e a ll arriv ed a nd w e lo o k for wa rd to
h e ar i n g f rom t hem . Co mm ission er K elly , Co m missi on er
B r at t o n , Mr. P ist ol e. [ Crosst al k off mic] .

O u r c o n cl udin g pa ne l i s on the s ub ject of l aw en fo rce ment

a n d i t s r elat i ons hi p t o the is su e of w eapo n s of ma ss
d e st r u c ti on a n d t er ror is m. We h av e th ree d istin gu ish ed
p r of e s s io nals wit h gre at exper ie nc e in thi s area . Ra y Kel ly
i s t h e Ne w Yo r k P ol ice D epartm en t Comm issi o ner; Wi lli am
B r ad e n is the Los A nge le s Poli ce C hief ; an d John P ist ole i s
t h e D e p ut y Di r ect or of t he Fed er al Bur eau o f Inv es tig ation .
W e c o u l d not h ave t hre e more k no wl edge able and i ns igh tful
i n di v i d ua ls t h an th ose w ho hav e vo lunt eere d to b e wit h us
t o da y . I tha n k e ac h o f you—an d Co mmis sion e r Kel ly .

C O MM . K EL LY: Tha nk yo u. I ju st w ant to e c ho wh at To m

B r ok a w sa id a b out D r. Ke vin Ca hi ll . D r. C a hill ma de a ver y
c a nd i d as sess m ent o f t he anthr ax e arly on i n tha t mat ter
w h en t h er e wa s a lo t o f confus io n. He ’s b e en ve ry he lpful
t o N e w Yo rk C i ty Po lic e Depart me nt and hel p ing u s est ablis h
a me d i c al com p one nt in o ur cou nt er -ter rori s m ope ra tio n. S o
D r . C a h il l h a s d on e a n outsta nd in g jo b, a n d con ti nue s to do
t h at .

S e na tor G rah am , S en ator T al en t, m embe r s of th e

c o mm i s s io n, t h ank y ou fo r invi ti ng me to s p eak t od ay.
Y o u’ v e as ked u s t o add re ss the r ol e of law enfor ce men t in
p r ev e n t in g th e us e of we apons of m ass dest r uctio n by
t e rr o r i st gro u ps. I’l l do thi s pr inci pall y by d es cri bing
w h at t h e New Y ork C ity P olice De pa rtme nt p r ogram t o c ounte r
t h is t h re at i s .

A nd t o b egin , it ’s im po rtant to e mpha size the m os t

e f fe c t i ve , cr i tic al st ep s, to pr ev ent the u se of w eap ons o f
m a ss d e st ruct i on ag ain st an Am er ic an c ity l ie ou ts ide the
c o nt r o l o f an y on e mun ic ipal l aw e nfor ceme n t age nc y.
S p ec i f i ca lly, in th e c as e of n uc le ar w eapo n s the m ost
i m po r t a nt ste p is t o e ns ure th at i ntac t we a pons an d f issil e
m a te r i a l, hig h ly en ric he d uran iu m or p luto n ium, ne ver fall
i n to t e rr oris t ha nd s. T his is t he res pons i bilit y of the
f e de r a l g over n men t.

I n t h e ca se o f ra di olo gi cal we ap on s, d irty bombs , the thre at

s t em s i n larg e pa rt fr om the i na de quat e se c urity o f h igh
s t re n g t h radi o ac ti ve ma terial s at hos pita l s, an d cer tain
i n du s t r ie s, a n d w as te pr oducts f ro m nu clea r powe r
g e ne r a t io n. A gai n, th e federa l go vern ment has t he au thori ty
t o r e g u la te t h e s ec uri ty stand ar ds of thes e mate ri als , but
t o d a t e h as d o ne so on ly weakl y.

I n t h e ca se o f bi ol ogi ca l weap on s, it is w e ll kn ow n t hat t he

l a rg e - s ca le r e lea se of c ertain b io warf are a gents w ill
s w if t l y o verw h elm t he co nseque nc e mana geme n t cap ac ity of a ny
A m er i c a n city . H er e, to o, it is t he r espo n sibil it y o f the
f e de r a l g over n men t to ba ckstop t he loc al e f forts t o m anage
t h e h e a lt h ef f ect s of th e atta ck s.

T h e i n a de quac y of t he fe deral pr og rams to p erfor m thi s

f u nc t i o n has b een r eve al ed rep ea te dly, in e xerci si ng the
s t ud i e s g oing bac k int o the ea rl y nine ties . I h op e t hat
y o ur c o mm issi o n w il l d ra w atte nt io n to the s e and o the r are as
i n w h i c h the f ede ra l g ov ernmen t sh ould be d oing fa r m ore
t h an i t c urre n tly i s.

H e re i n N ew Y o rk Ci ty, I can s ay w ith conf i dence t hat the

N e w Y o r k City Pol ic e D ep artmen t is doi ng e v eryth in g i t can
t o p r o t ec t th e ci ty fr om the m os t dang erou s form o f
t e rr o r i sm ima g ina bl e. W e oper at e an a rray of pr og ram s to do
t h is ; s om e ar e ru n sol el y by t he d epar tmen t , oth er s a re
j o in t p ro gram s in vo lvi ng local a ge ncie s an d the fe der al
g o ve r n m en t an d su rr oun di ng jur is di ctio ns.

I t ’s i m po rtan t to r eme mb er tha t we apon s of mass de str uctio n

a n d t e r ro rism , is f irs t and fo re mo st, terr o rism. In other
w o rd s , be hind eve ry pl ot to us e a weap on o f mass d est ructi on
o f m a s s d estr u cti on ag ai nst Ne w Yo rk C ity w ill b e one or
m o re i n di vidu a ls. By fa r the mo st imp orta n t con tr ibu tion of
l a w e n f or ceme n t t he ref or e, is th e dete ctio n , the
i d en t i f ic atio n , a nd ap pr ehensi on o f th ese i ndivi du als befo re
t h ey a r e able to ca rry o ut the ir s trik e.

T o t h a t e nd, t he NY PD in vestig at es ter rori s t thr ea ts, both

u n il a t e ra lly a nd in co op eratio n wi th t he f e deral g ove rnmen t.
O u r i n t el lige n ce di vis io n is r es po nsib le f o r inv es tig ating
l e ad s t ha t ma y in di cat e possib le t erro rist activ it y, and
e m pl o y s a var i ety o f d if ferent t ec hniq ues t o do so . They
i n cl u d e a net w ork o f d et ective s ba sed in 1 1 glob al ci ties
w h o t r a ve l wi d ely t o g at her in fo rm atio n at the s ce ne of
t e rr o r i st att a cks a nd wo rk wit h fo reig n co u nterp ar ts. In
a d di t i o n, we’ v e a ss ign ed over 12 5 inve stig a tors to th e NYP D/
F B I J o i nt Ter r ori st Ta sk force, w hi ch i s th e cent er pie ce of
t h e f e d er al g o ver nm ent p rogram t o inve stig a te te rr ori st
t h re a t s a gain s t t hi s c ou ntry.

T h e i m p or tanc e of t hes e effort s is amp ly d e monst ra ted by t he

n u me r o u s plot s ag ai nst N ew Yor k Ci ty, that have be en
d e fe a t e d over the p ast s even-y ea rs , in clud i ng ag ai nst the
B r oo k l y n Brid g e, th e N ew York St oc k Ex chan g e, th e Cit iCorp
B u il d i n g, the sub wa y s ys tem, t he H arol d Sq u are S ta tio n, th e
P A TH T r ai n tu n nel s and t he jet f ue l pi peli n e and s upp ly
t a nk s a t JFK A irp or t. I t’s al so w orth rem e mberi ng on e plo t
t h at s u cc eede d , t he an th rax at ta ck s th at s t ruck Ne w Y ork o ne
w e ek a f te r Se p tem be r 1 1 th .

O u r p r o gr am i s no t, ho we ver, l im it ed t o in v estig at ion s and

i n te l l i ge nce w ork . Ev er y day we c ondu ct o p erati on s t o
b e tt e r de fend New Y ork C ity fr om w eapo ns o f mass
d e st r u c ti on. And w e a re in th e pr oces s of putti ng in plac e
a n a r r a y of t e chn ol ogi ca l syst em s that wil l give t he city a
d e fe n s e c apab i lit y tha t is unr iv al ed i n th e worl d.

T h an k s in par t to s pec ia l prog ra ms lau nche d with t he help of

t h e f e d er al g o ver nm ent , New Yo rk C ity’ s ef f orts to co unter
t h e t h r ea t of nuc le ar an d radi ol og ical wea p ons i s amo ng th e
m o st a d va nced of an y c it y in t he w orld tod a y.

I n t h e pa st f o ur- ye ars w e have d is trib uted over 1, 000

a d va n c e p erso n al ra dia ti on pag es t o ou r pa t rol o ff ice rs, a nd
i n cr e a s in gly t o o ff ice rs in ne ig hb orin g ju r isdic ti ons .
S t ar t i n g in 2 0 04, w e i mp lement ed m anda tory chemi ca l,
b i ol o g i ca l, a n d r ad iol og ical r es po nse trai n ing f or ev ery
r e cr u i t i n ou r po li ce ac ademy. We ’ve trai n ed th ou san ds of
o u r s e n io r po l ice o ffi ce rs in th is cri tica l resp on sib ility
as well.

I n a d d i ti on, o n a d ail y basis, w e depl oy a large n umb er of

h i gh l y se nsit i ve ve hic le -based r ad iati on d e tecti on sy stems .
A t t h i s v ery m ome nt , f or examp le , NYPD off i cers ar e
o p er a t i ng a r a dia ti on ch eckpoi nt o n 42 nd Street. Something we
do every day, using a truck-based radiation sensor that is
capable, not just at identifying the presence of alpha and gamma
radiation, but of identifying a particular isotope in a passing
vehicle. NYPD operations of this sort are not new. We’ve been
p e rf o r m in g ra d iat io n s ur veys s in ce the sum m er of 2 004 ,
b e fo r e th e Re p ubl ic an Na tional C on vent ion.

D u ri n g th e su m mer o f 2 00 5, the N YP D an d th e U.S. D epa rtmen t

o f E n e r gy joi n tly o ver sa w an a er ia l ra diat i on su rv ey of Ne w
Y o rk C i ty , us i ng a spe ci ally e qu ip ped radi a tion de tec tion
h e li c o p te r. T his s urv ey gave th e NYPD a b a selin e map of
r a di a t i on in N ew Yo rk Ci ty. W e co ntin ue t o cond uc t
r a di a t i on sur v eys , pri or to al l ma jor even t s in th e c ity.

R e ce n t l y, the Sec ur ing t he Cit ie s prog ram h as al lo wed the

N Y PD a n d its p art ne r a ge ncies to r each for an un pr ece dente d
l e ve l o f soph i sti ca tio n and in te ns ity in o u r rad ia tio n
d e te c t i on ope r ati on s. S ecurin g th e Ci ties was l au nch ed by
t h e D e p ar tmen t of H ome la nd Sec ur it y in mid - 2006, w ith the
a i m o f en abli n g a dv anc ed radia ti on det ecti o n and
i n te r d i ct ion o per at ion s by a c on so rtiu m of agenc ie s f rom N ew
Y o rk , N ew Jer s ey, a nd Co nnecti cu t.

O u r n e x t step s in t he Se curing t he Cit ies p rogra m wil l be to

w i re l e s sl y co n nec t our m obile ra di atio n de t ectio n sys tems
a n d t o in stal l fi xe d v er sions of t his equi p ment on th e
b r id g e s a nd t u nne ls le ad ing in to t he I slan d of M an hat tan.
T h es e c ap abil i tie s wil l be int eg ra ted with the C CT V a nd
L i ce n s e P late Rea de r s ys tems t he d epar tmen t is a lr ead y in
t h e p r o ce ss o f pr oc uri ng , givi ng u s a uniq u e cap ac ity to
i d en t i f y, tra c k, an d r es pond t o ra diat ion t hreat s to the
c i ty .

T h is a b il ity t o c om bin e with a n ar ray of 3 , 000 p ri vat e and

p u bl i c se ctor CCT V cam er as, bi ow ar fare age n t sen so rs, and
s o ph i s t ic ated vid eo an d analyt ic s oftw are i s cen tr al to ou r
L o we r M an hatt a n S ec uri ty Initi at iv e. This plan is a $90
m i ll i o n u nder t aki ng , f un ded jo in tl y by New York Ci ty and t he
f e de r a l g over n men t, to s ecure th e worl d’s f inanc ia l c enter
a g ai n s t a ttac k . I wou ld like to e mpha size howev er , t hat t he
a c hi e v e me nt o f th es e o bj ective s de pend s on adequ at e f undin g
f o r t h e S ecur i ng th e C it ies In it ia tive .

O u r o r i gi nal r equ es t f or $40 m il li on w as r e duced i n f iscal

y e ar , ’ 09 , ap p rop ri ati on s budg et b y $1 0 mi l lion. We need
t h at m o ne y re s tor ed . Gi ven th e co mple xiti e s of th e f edera l
g r an t p ro cess , we a re st ill wa it in g on the $40 m il lio n—we
a r e a w a it ing a n a dd iti on al $40 m il lion fro m this f isc al
y e ar .

T h e c e n te rpie c e o f the c ity’s bi od efen se p r ogram i s t he

B i ow a t c h Prog r am, w hic h the NY PD m anag es i n coop er ati on wi th
t h e D e p ar tmen t of H ome la nd Sec ur it y an d th e city ’s
D e pa r t m en t of Hea lt h a nd Menta l Hy gien e, a n d the D epa rtmen t
o f E n v i ro nmen t al Pr ote ct ion. Th is sys tem i s a n et wor k of
a t mo s p h er ic s a mpl er s t ha t cont in ua lly moni t or ai r for the
p r es e n c e of t h e d is eas e- causin g mi cro- orga n isms mo st likel y
t o b e u se d in a b io ter ro rist a tt ac k.

T h is t e ch nolo g y, wh ich w as aug me nt ed b y th e city ’s Sy ndrom ic

S u rv e i l la nce P rog ra m, ai ms to pr ov ide the e arlie st po ssibl e
w a rn i n g o f a b io- te rro ri st att ac k. Un fort u natel y, bi owatc h
i s [ b a c kg roun d no is e] by the f ed er al g over n ment an d u rgent ly
n e ed s m od erni z ati on . Th e prim ar y air- samp l ing u ni t i n the
B i ow a t c h Prog r am re qui re s filt er c artr idge s to b e man ually
r e tr i e v ed and pro ce sse d at the p ub lic heal t h lab or ato ry.
T h is o u td ated and h igh ly ineff ic ie nt p roce s s can c aus e tim e
l a gs i n d etec t ion o f o ve r 24-h ou rs .

A mo r e ad vanc e d a nd pr om ising sy st em i s th e Auto no mou s

P a th o g e n Dete c tio n Sys te m. AP DS i s a full y auto ma ted syst em
t h at e l ec tron i cal ly tr an smits th e resu lts o f its a tmo spher ic
a n al y s i s with i n t wo to f our-ho ur s of c olle c tion. Cur rentl y
t h er e a re onl y si x suc h system s de ploy ed w o rldwi de ; a ll of
t h em a r e in M a nha tt an. The De pa rt ment of H omela nd Se curit y
p l an s t o expa n d A PD S p ro jects la te r th is y e ar, b ut ha s
i n di c a t ed tha t no i ncr ea se in co ve rage wil l be p ro vid ed to
N e w Y o r k City .

W h il e w e reco g niz e the n eed fo r ot her juri s dicti on s t o

e n ha n c e t heir cap ac iti es to pr ot ec t th emse l ves, ev ery
c r ed i b l e thre a t a na lys is in th e co untr y sh o ws Ne w Yor k to be
a pr i m e t erro r ist t arg et . The r ea l pr oble m , of co urs e, is
t h at a d va nced dom es tic b iosurv ei ll ance of t he so rt th at we
n e ed , h er e in New Y ork C ity, i s a low prio r ity i n the
f e de r a l g over n men t, as e videnc ed b y th e an e mic b ud get of
B i ow a t c h Prog r am.

F i na l l y , the N YPD i s a ls o purs ui ng a n umbe r of d if fer ent

p r og r a m s to r e duc e the r isk of c he mica l te r roris m in New
Y o rk C i ty . W e ’re w ork in g with t he Met ropo l itan Tr ans it
A u th o r i ty to m ake a ch em ical w ea po ns d etec t ion s ys tem
o p er a t i on al i n th e sub wa y. We a re stu dyin g how to ad apt o ur
l i ce n s e p late rea de r s ys tems t o re ad H az-M a t pla ca rds on
v e hi c l e s and r ail ca rs.

S i nc e 2 00 4, o u r o ff ice rs make re gu lar visi t s to th e o wners

a n d m a n ag ers o f c he mic al stora ge f acil itie s to e ns ure that
d a ng e r o us che m ica ls ar e proper ly s ecur ed. From ti me to
t i me , w e also con du ct Re d Cell o pe rati ons t o che ck fo r
c o mp l i a nc e wi t h t he la w and to i de ntif y de f icien ci es in
e x is t i n g regu l ati on s. T he mos t re cent of t hese wa s
O p er a t i on Gre e n C lo ud, a n unde rc ov er o pera t ion t o tes t the
e a se o f a cqui r ing c hlo ri ne in a fo rm t hat c ould be
d i ss e m i na ted a s a w eap on . The f ac t th at s u ch de ad ly
p r ec u r s or s co u ld be de li vered to t he w ould - be te rr ori st’s
d o or s t e p, wit h out i mpe di ment, wa s alar ming to sa y the leas t.

I t i s o ne mor e gl ar ing e xample o f wher e we need th e f edera l

g o ve r n m en t to ste p up an d addr es s vuln erab i litie s tha t put
t h e p u b li c at ris k. W he ther i t’ s fixi ng g a ping ho les in
r e gu l a t io ns, s ecu ri ng lo ose nu cl ea r ma teri a ls ab ro ad, or
f u ll y f un ding pro gr ams h ere at h om e th at r e prese nt ou r las t
l i ne o f d efen s e, we ha ve absol ut el y no tim e to l os e.
E v er y t h in g we kno w abo ut Al-Qa ed a tell us t hey w il l t ry to
h i t u s ag ain, pos si bly t he nex t ti me w ith a weap on of mass
d e st r u c ti on. We mu st do every th in g in our power t o s top
t h em b e fo re i t ’s to o l at e. Th an k you for i nviti ng me toda y,
M r . C h a ir man.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you ve ry m uch, Mr. Kelly . Ch ief

B r at t o n .

C H IE F B RA TTON : G oo d m or ning. C ha irma n Gr a ham a nd

c o mm i s s io n me m ber s, th an k you al l for invi t ing m e to speak
t o y o u to day, dur in g o ur inaug ur al pub lic h earin g. L aw
e n fo r c e me nt c l ear ly re co gnizes t he pro life r ation o f
c h em i c a l, bio l ogi ca l, ra diolog ic al , an d nu c lear we apo ns ar e
t h e m o s t seri o us th rea t to our n at iona l se c urity . Mo re th an
7 5 0, 0 0 0 s worn mem be rs of state a nd loc al l a w enf or cem ent i n
t h e U n i te d St a tes a re en gaged in t he e ffor t to p re ven t WMD
p r ol i f e ra tion ; bu t not t o the de gr ee I bel i eve t he y s hould
be.

F o r the s ake o f m y oral p re se ntat ion— a nd yo u hav e

w r it t e n t esti m ony —I ’m go ing to h ig hlig ht s o me of t he
c r it i c a l poin t s t ha t a re more fu ll y re pres e nted in th e
w r it t e n v ersi o n o f tha t testim on y. I’ d in v ite y ou to read
t h e d e t ai led d esc ri pti on s of t he L APD’ s cu r rent an d f uture
c a pa b i l it ies i n t he ar ea s of W MD t rain ing, preve nt ion , and
r e sp o n s e. Th i s i nc lud es the S us pi ciou s Ac t ivity R epo rting
S y st e m , S ARS; Ope ra tio n Archan ge l; and the Natio na l C ounte r-
T e rr o r i sm Aca d emy .

I ’ ll f o cu s on the b roa de r them e of the imp o rtant r ole loca l

a n d s t a te pol i ce pl ay in the p re ve ntio n, a n d I e mp has ize,
t h e p r e ve ntio n of W MD pr olifer at io n, a nd t h at ga p, I think ,
n e ed s s ho ring up. Any s uccess fu l nati onal count er -
p r ol i f e ra tion str at egy m ust in cl ud e ro bust local c oun ter-
p r ol i f e ra tion str at egi es . Cur re nt ly, the N ation al WM D
S t ra t e g y emer g es fr om an d is f ra me d la rgel y in W as hin gton
DC. T h e nati o nal s tra te gy is ro ll ed o ut t o the st ate s for
i m pl e m e nt atio n , o ft en wi thout co ns ider atio n of t he lo cal
p e rs p e c ti ve.

L o ca l a nd sta t ewi de pe rs pectiv e ne eds to b e infu se d e arly

i n to t h e proc e ss. Onl y throug h th is i nclu s ion w il l a
n a ti o n a l prog r am be ab le to in te gr ate with local p rog rams,
i n e s s e nc e. L oca l WMD s trateg y sh ould be t ailor ed to uniq ue
o p er a t i on al e n vir on men ts of ea ch c ity and r egion . Fo r
e x am p l e , in L o s A ng ele s, we ha ve t he p ort, throu gh wh ich
r o ug h l y 4 0% o f ou r nat io n’s go od s trav el. Histo ry ha s sho wn
t h at t h e most lik el y W MD scena ri o invo lves an at ta ck that
m a y n o t b e as phy si cal ly devas ta ti ng a s th e even ts of 9/11 ,
b u t h e a vi ly i m pac ts a re gion.

W e m u s t h ave s oli d str at egies th at are des i gned at ou r

l e ve l , th e lo c al le vel , to att ac k thes e so r ts of p rob lems.
L o ca l n on -pro l ife ra tio n strate gi es req uire that pu bli c
s a fe t y ag enci e s k no w t he locat io ns of dang e rous ma ter ials
t h at c o ul d be use d as a WMD, a nd b e in a p o sitio n to educa te
t h e g u a rd ians of th ese m ateria ls a bout eff e ctive s ecu rity.
T h is r e qu ires an un der st and of t he gov ernm e nt re gu lat ory
p r oc e s s t hat d ict at es wh o hand le s thes e ma t erial s, ho w the y
a r e t r a ns port e d, an d h ow breac he s in s ecur i ty ar e rep orted
a n d h a n dl ed.

R e po r t i ng pro c ess es mu st be in p la ce s o th a t the p oli ce

i m me d i a te ly a r e n ot ifi ed of se cu ri ty b reac h es, t he fts , and
s u rv e i l la nce a cti vi tie s. Poli ce m ust buil d stro ng
r e la t i o ns hips wit h the p rivate s ec tor. Th e netw or k i nclud es
r e se a r c h labo r ato ri es, h ospita ls , and phar m acies . Pe ople
w h o h a n dl e se n sit iv e m at erials m us t be tra i ned t o rep ort
a n om a l i es , su c h a s the p urchas e of lar ge a m ounts o f
c h em i c a ls , li k e a mm oni um nitra te , or t he t r eatme nt of
s u sp i c i ou s in j uri es th at may i nv ol ve c hemi c als o r bio logic al
a g en t s .

P o li c e mu st a l so fa mil ia rize t he ms elve s wi t h pot en tia l

s o ur c e s o f te c hni ca l e xp ertise t ha t te rror i sts w il l r equir e
t o o p e r at iona l ize t hei r desire s to use a W M D, wh et her it
r e si d e s o n th e In te rne t, in th e un iver siti e s, or i n t he
r e se a r c h cent e rs. Cou nt er-sur ve il lanc e in f ormat io n a nd
i n te l l i ge nce c oll ec tio n effort s ar e al l ce n tral to
p r ev e n t io n pl a ns; a ll ce ntral an d esse ntia l . Lo ca l p rogra ms
t o d e t e ct sur v eil la nce a t our cr it ical sit e s are e sse ntial .

I n fo r m a ti on a b out s usp ic ious b eh av iors mus t be c ol lec ted a nd

f e d i n t o the t hre at as se ssment s tr eam to d e tect wa rni ng
s i gn s a nd pre - att ac k i nd icator s. Inte llig e nce s ys tem s mus t
b e i n p la ce f o r r ap id an alysis a nd inv esti g ation . On ly
t h ro u g h t he b l end in g o f these el em ents wil l the wa rni ng
s i gn s a nd pre - ind ic ato rs of at ta ck s be det e cted. Pre venti on
h a s t o be the ult im ate f ocus.

T h e m a t er ials for W MD ca n be s mu gg led into the U ni ted

S t at e s , o r pe r hap s mor e simply , th ey c an b e obta in ed here,
e i th e r le gall y or i lle ga lly. LA PD inv esti g ation s hav e
c o nv i n c ed us t hat t her e is a c on ti nuin g ef f ort t o pla ce
o p er a t i on al c e lls i n o ur homel an d to c ondu c t the se ty pes o f
a t ta c k s . The s e i nv est ig ations a re con duct e d joi nt ly, with
o u r c o l le ague s in t he FB I and in m y ca se, t he Co un ty of Lo s
A n ge l e s , the S her if f’s D epartm en t, She riff Lee B ac a. We
h a ve a jo int f usi on ce nt er the re f or t he s h aring o f t hat
i n fo r m a ti on, a nd it ha s been d ev el opin g ov e r the l ast
s e ve r a l y ears ; de ve lop in g and ev ol ving qui t e wel l.

W h et h e r t hey c ome f rom o versea s to hid e in plain s igh t in

A m er i c a n comm u nit ie s, or they be co me r adic a lized h ere , it is
f a r m o r e like l y t ha t l oc al, ra th er tha n fe d eral la w
e n fo r c e me nt w i ll de tec t terror is t’ s pr esen c e. T ha t h as be en
t h e r e c en t Br i tis h exp er ience, f or exa mple . The s ame
p r in c i p le app l ies t o t he detec ti on of WMD m ateri al s i n our
h o me l a n d.

D e te c t i on tec h nol og y a lo ne has t he pot enti a l to ge ner ate t oo

m a ny f a ls e po s iti ve s, re quires a t rain ed i n vesti ga tor to
i n te r r u pt and det ec t t he prope r si gnat ures for W MD . Our
l e ve l o f trai n ing i n t hi s area i s not cons i stent . In L.A. ,
o n e o f th e be n efi ts of a large r de part ment , I ha ve a very
l a rg e H az -Mat uni t. W e have t he c apab ilit y , wit h Hom eland
S e cu r i t y fund i ng, t o r es pond t o a Haz- Mat t ype o f sit uatio n,
a n d a t th e sc e ne, m ake a very ea rl y on , ve r y qui ck
d e te r m i na tion wit ho ut ha ving t o se nd i t of f to a l ab, as t o
w h et h e r o r no t we a re de aling wi th a W MD t y pe of s itu ation .

T h at i s n ot a cap ab ili ty that mo st pol ice a genci es ar ound

t h is c o un try h ave . Th ey would h av e, a s Co m missi on er Kelly
c i te d , th e ne e d t o shi p it off s om ewhe re e l se, h av e i t
a n al y z e d and m ean wh ile y ou hav e a whol e ar e a of th e c ity
c l os e d do wn; o fte nt ime s needle ss ly , be caus e of t he ma ny
f a ls e t hr eats tha t we re ceive.

F e de r a l t rain i ng st and ar ds of ha za rdou s ma t erial s

t e ch n i c ia ns a r e d if fer en t than s ta te t rain i ng st an dar ds.
T h is c r ea tes a va ri anc e in the l ev els of c o mpete nc e a cross
s t at e s an d re g ion s. A n ationa l st anda rdiz a tion tr ain ing
w o ul d e li mina t e, or si gn ifican tl y redu ce t h ese d if fer ence.
W e m u s t c ombi n e t he ev er popul ar i nves tmen t in t ec hno logy,
t h e c h o ic e [p h one ti c], w ith th e tr aini ng o f comp et ent huma n
o p er a t o rs to e nsu re su cc essful p re vent ion p rogra ms .

P o li c i n g effo r ts to sa fe guard WM D mate rial s and pr eve nt

a t ta c k s r ely h eav il y o n the qu al it y of inf o rmati on th at’s
a v ai l a b le and the s pee d with w hi ch it is d e liver ed an d
a n al y z e d. In f orm at ion s haring m us t be imp r oved at th e
r e gi o n a l, sta t e, an d f ed eral l ev el s. The b ottom l ine is
t h at s t at e an d lo ca l p ol ice ne ed d irec t ac c ess t o
i n te l l i ge nce. So me thi ng that th e majo r ci t y chi ef s a nd th e
I S EP h a ve bee n ad vo cat in g now, f or sev eral years .

T h e I n t er agen c y T hr eat A ssessm en t Coor dina t ion G ro up, ITAC G,

i s t h e co ndui t at t he Na tional C ou nter -Ter r orism C ent er,
w h ic h W MD thr e at in for ma tion i s pa ssed fro m the FB I a nd th e
D H S, t o s tate and l oca l law en fo rc emen t. T his i s an
i m pr o v e me nt o v er pa st pr actice s, b ut t he c o ntrol o f t he fl ow
o f i n t e ll igen c e s ti ll re sides at t his time , excl us ive ly wi th
t h e f e d er al a g enc ie s. T his in di ca tes that local p oli ce ar e
l e ss l i ke ly t o ge t the i nforma ti on the y ne e d, wh en th ey ne ed
i t , a n d a s ap p rop ri ate t o thei r pa rtic ular need.

T h e g o a l is t o cr ea te a two-wa y di alog ue s o that s tat e and

l o ca l a ge ncie s ha ve a sa y in t he i nfor mati o n sha ri ng proce ss
a n d a d ir ect l ink t o e nt ities th at dis pens e that
i n fo r m a ti on; n ot ea sy to do. Be ca use of t h e man y var iance s
i n s t a t e laws , Su ns hin e Laws, et c eter a, t r ying to
c o or d i n at e th i s h as be en extra or di nari ly d i fficu lt , b ut it
i s s t i l l some t hin g, an e ndeavo r th at n eeds to be u nde rtake n
m o re f o rc eful l y a nd mo re compr eh en sive ly t h an it h as been,
to date.

T h is c o nc ept o f i nt ell ig ence p ar tn ersh ip e x tends t o o ur

r e la t i o ns hips wit h pol ic e depa rt me nts over s eas. T he gold
s t an d a r d is c e rta in ly ef forts of t he N YPD, with th eir poli ce
f o un d a t io n, t o es ta bli sh offic es i n va riou s coun tr ies arou nd
t h e w o r ld ; an d so me thi ng that lo ca l po lice in ma ny ot her
j u ri s d i ct ions nee d to ha ve fir st ha nd k nowl e dge o f ove rseas
e v en t s th at m a y a ff ect t heir o wn j uris dict i ons. T hey must
a l so h a ve est a bli sh ed re lation sh ip s wi th t h eir c ou nte rpart s
a b ro a d , b efor e an e ven t, so th at i nfor mati o n abo ut sp ecifi c
t h re a t s a re s h are d rap id ly and d ir ectl y. I ’ve l on g b een a n
a d vo c a t e of t h is co nce pt , and ag ai n, t he N Y PD ha s bee n
a c ti v e l y enga g ed in it n ow, fo r a numb er o f year s.

I n t h e pr opos e d F or eig n Liaiso n Of fice s Ag a inst Te rro rism,

t h e F L O AT Pro g ram , is th e acro ny m that it’ s know n by; this
c o nc e p t w as c r eat ed wi th the u nd er stan ding that ma ny
m u ni c i p al pol i ce de par tm ents l ac k the reso u rces to st ation
a n o f f i ce r ov e rse as fo r an ext en de d pe riod of ti me . In
F L OA T , po lice dep ar tme nt s woul d po ol t heir resou rc es to po st
o f fi c e r s over s eas a nd sh are th e in tell igen c e tha t was
g a th e r e d.

W e h a v e a mod e l f or th is in th at m any poli c e age nc ies in

t h is c o un try, cur re ntl y, have of fi cers ass i gned to th e
N a ti o n a l Oper a tio ns Ce nt er, an d we sha re i n forma ti on among
t h em t h at —not all a gen ci es can a ff ord to h a ve a fu ll- time
o f fi c e r a t th a t l oc ati on —but w ha t we t ry t o do i s
r e gi o n a li ze i t so t hat i nforma ti on is shar e d.

I n t h i s r egar d , I ’m ur gi ng con gr es s to be a ware of an d

s u pp o r t a n ef f ort b y t he Manha tt an Ins titu t e; R. P. Ed dy,
w h o’ s a S enio r Fe ll ow fo r that c en ter, has been ad voc ating
t h e F L O AT Pro g ram a nd I would as k that as p art o f you r
d e li b e r at ion y ou sh oul d look m or e acti vely at th at
i n it i a t iv e.

I ’ d a l s o like to ta ke a moment t o reco gniz e some o f t he

p e op l e we hav e he ar d a nd respo nd ed to. Th e call s of local
e n fo r c e rs , ce r tai nl y, ou r coll ea gu es a t th e FBI; w e h ave
e s ta b l i sh ed w h at I wou ld descr ib e as s eaml e ss re la tio nship s
w i th t h em in o ur co unt er -terro ri sm eff orts , as w el l a s in
l o ca l l aw enf o rce me nt ef forts, a nd con tinu e to e xp and on
t h at , w it h th e De pu ty Di rector h er e, i n th e abse nc e o f
D i re c t o r Muel l er, t hat t hose r el at ions hips are g oo d a nd ha ve
b e en c o nt inui n g t o gro w.

A d di t i o na lly, Amb as sad or Ted M cN am ara, the Progr am Ma nager

f o r t h e I nfor m ati on Sh ar ing En vi ro nmen t, h a s bee n a s taunc h
a l ly a n d a su p por te r o f both o f th e in itia t ives I jus t
m e nt i o n ed . I app re cia te all h is e ffor ts a n d our
r e la t i o ns hip, als o, wi th Homel an d Secu rity . Sec re tar y
C h er t o f f, I w o uld d esc ri be at th is tim e as excel le nt.

I ec h o th e co m mis si one r from N ew Y ork’ s co m ments t hat it’s

a l l a b o ut res o urc es an d that w e ne ed m ore. Clea rl y, the
f a rt h e r w e ge t fr om 9/ 11 , now se ve n-ye ars— a ctual ly th e
f a rt h e r y ou g e t f ro m W as hingto n an d Ne w Yo r k, ge og rap hical ly
— i n L o s A ngel e s I h ave t o figh t to oth and n ail w it h m y
p o li t i c al lea d ers hi p t o basica ll y fund loc a l res ou rce s for
t h is v e ry cri t ica l eff or t. So i t make s it even mo re
d i ff i c u lt to b e 1 ,0 00 mi les aw ay f ight ing f or fe de ral
s u pp o r t . So I th in k i f we wer e un ifie d up here, c ert ainly
a r ou n d th e id e a t ha t m or e stil l ne eds to b e focu se d o n the
l o ca l e ff orts .

I ’ d a l s o like to th ank t he mem be rs of cong r ess w ho ha ve

s u pp o r t ed and spo ns ore d legisl at io n th at w o uld e na ble
p r og r e s s in t h ese i mpo rt ant ar ea s.

I n c o n c lu sion , in t he 19 90s, a ct ua lly, beg i nning h ere in N ew

Y o rk C i ty , Co m mis si one r Kelly’ s ti me a nd c e rtain ly my time
a n d t h e n my s u cce ss ors , and no w Co mmis sion e r Kel ly , o nce
a g ai n , we lea r ned h ow to deal wi th the iss u e of tr adi tiona l
c r im e . W e em b rac ed co mm unity po li cing and commu ni ty
p o li c i n g focu s ed on pa rt nershi p pr oble m-so l ving, a nd most
i m po r t a nt ly, p rev en tio n. Prev en t crim e ra t her t ha n j ust - -
s u cc e s s a nd r e act in g t o it.

W e d o n ’ t need his to ry to repea t it self in t he se ns e o f

n e ga t i v el y. W e h av e p os itive hi st ory to l o ok to a s w e fac e
t h e i s s ue s of ter ro ris m. Terr or is m, i n ma n y res pe cts can be
a s r e s p on sive to th e i ss ue of co mm unit y po l icing , the
p h il o s o ph y of com mu nit y polici ng , part ners h ip, l oc al, stat e,
f e de r a l . Foc u s o n pro bl ems, t he p robl ems t hat y ou ha ve
f o cu s e d o n to d ay, W MD, b ut mos t im port antl y the id ea that we
w a nt t o m easu r e o ur su cc ess by t he pre vent i on of t hes e
e v en t s ra ther tha n how w ell we r es pond to t hem. T han k you .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you, s ir . Dep uty D irect or Pi stole .

D E PU T Y DI RECT O R P IS TOL E: Sena to r Grah am, S enato r Tal ent,

m e mb e r s o f th e co mm iss io n. Th an k you for t he pr iv ile ge of
b e in g h er e to d ay an d f or the o pp or tuni ty t o serv e on a pan el
w i th t w o of t h e l ea din g figure s in loc al l a w enf or cem ent.

T h e r e a so n fo r be in g h er e toda y to dis cuss one o f the most

d e ad l y an d da n ger ou s t hr eats w e fa ce, that of an a tta ck
u s in g W MD . F e w t hr eat s, as we k no w, f all i nto t he sa me
c l as s i n term s of s hee r destru ct io n, d evas t ation , and loss .
F e w s t r ik e su c h f ea r i n the he ar ts of the p ublic a nd few
t h re a t s a re s o ap pe ali ng to te rr or ists aro u nd th e wor ld, f or
t h e s a m e reas o ns. Pre ve ntion mu st be our f ocus, t hat is w hy
w e a r e he re. Tod ay , I ’d like to h ighl ight the p ro gre ss we ,
t h e F B I , have mad e to ke ep WMD o ut of the h ands of
t e rr o r i st s an d cr im ina l organi za ti ons. I a lso w an t t o tou ch
o n o u r co llec t ive e ffo rt s with o ur law enf o rceme nt an d
i n te l l i ge nce p art ne rs, a s the FB I serv es a s a br id ge, in
m a ny i n st ance s , b et wee n the U. S. a nd g loba l inte ll ige nce
c o mm u n i ty , an d th e law e nforce me nt com muni t ies.

W e ’v e h ea rd t h e t hr eat a rticul at ed by Sena t or Nu nn an d Dr.

B u nn . Cl earl y , A l- Qae da has d em on stra ted a n att em pt to
a c qu i r e a nd u s e W MD . In deed, bi n Lade n st a ted t ha t i t is
A l -Q a e d a’ s du t y t o acq ui re WMD . A nd h e ha s made r epe ated
r e cr u i t in g pi t che s for e xperts i n chem istr y , phy si cs, and
e x pl o s i ve s, t o jo in hi s terror is t move ment , as w e hea rd
e a rl i e r .

U n fo r t u na tely , co re Al -Q aeda i s no t ou r on l y con ce rn. We

f a ce t h re ats f rom o the r terror is t grou ps a r ound th e w orld,
s u ch a s H ezbo l lah , and f rom ho me gr own terr o rists , who are
n o t a f f il iate d wi th Al -Q aeda, bu t who are i nspir ed by his
m e ss a g e o f ha t red a nd vi olence . I n ad diti o n, as w e k now,
s e ve r a l r ogue nat io ns an d even i nd ivid uals seek to de velop
W M D c a p ab ilit i es. We’ ve often s ai d th at t h e nex t ter roris t
a t ta c k is not a q ue sti on of if , bu t wh en. If we u p t he an ti
t o a W M D atta c k, we kn ow that it i s a ques t ion o f if, but we
c a nn o t le t it bec om e a q uestio n of whe n. A gain, p rev entio n
i s t h e ke y.

S o w h a t a re w e do in g a bo ut thi s th reat ? T h e FBI s erv es as

t h e l e a d dome s tic a gen cy force f or pre vent i ng an d
i n ve s t i ga ting ter ro ris t’ s thre at s in t he U n ited St ate s,
i n cl u d i ng CBR N th re ats . Many of t oday ’s c o unter -t err orism
e f fo r t s b egan in th e a ft ermath o f the atta c ks on S ept ember
1 1 th , although the first joint terrorism task force was
established here in New York City more than 20-years ago as a
joint initiative between NYPD and FBI.

A s w e i n the F BI bu ilt o ur cap ac it y, w e sa w the ne ed to

p r ov i d e a mor e co mp reh en sive a nd c onso lida t ed ap pr oac h.
P r ev e n t in g WM D th re ats a nd inc id en ts i s a s pecia l cha lleng e,
b e ca u s e W MD m a ter ia ls an d inci de nt s ar e un i que i n cha racte r,
r e sp o n s e requ i rem en ts, a nd of co ur se p oten t ial c on seq uence s,
t h at S e na tor N unn s o w el l arti cu la ted. To that en d, we
c r ea t e d t he W M D D ir ect or ate. Th e dire ctor a te co or din ates
a l l F B I r espo n ses t o W MD threa ts . It inte g rates a nd links
a l l o f ne cess a ry co unt er -terro ri sm , pr olif e ratio n,
i n te l l i ge nce, sci en tif ic and t ec hn olog ical compo ne nts to
p r ev e n t a nd i n ves ti gat e, if ne ce ss ary, any WMD t hr eat or
i n ci d e n t.

I ’ d l i k e to p r ovi de ju st a sna ps ho t of the FBI’s W MD

c a pa b i l it ies f rom p rev en tion t o re spon se. In ad di tio n to
t h e J T T F here in Ne w Y or k, we ad de d mo re t h an 10 0 joi nt
t e rr o r i sm tas k fo rc es ar ound t he c ount ry, a s wel l as a
n a ti o n a l JTTF . T o lev er age th e ex pert ise o f fed er al, stat e,
a n d l o c al law enf or cem en t, and i nt elli genc e agen ci es, to
d e te c t , d eter and d isr up t all te rr oris t’s t hreat s. T he JT TF
a n d t h e i nfor m ati on th ey devel op ed , co uple d with t he intel
g l ea n e d f rom t he FB I’s w orldwi de n etwo rk, s erve as a key
t r ip w i re tha t de mo nst ra tes ho w we hav e tr a nsfor me d s ince
9 / 11 , w it h th e fo cu s o n being a th reat -bas e d, in te lli gence -
d r iv e n or gani z ati on .

S o g o o d i ntel l ige nc e i s a key to o ur p reve n tion ef for ts. We

h a ve i n te llig e nce a nal ys ts to co ll ect, ana l yze, an d
d i ss e m i na te t i mel y, ac ti onable i nt elli genc e rela te d t o WMD ,
f a ci l i t at ed b y fi el d i nt ellige nc e grou ps i n each o f o ur 56
f i el d o ff ices . F ur the r, we’re c om mitt ed t o diss em ina te
i n te l l i ge nce t o t he br oa der la w en forc emen t and in tel ligen ce
c o mm u n i ty , an d we d o t hi s unde r th e ma xim, share b y r ule,
w i th h o l d by e x cep ti on.

W e ’v e a ls o co n duc te d e xt ensive t ra inin g, s u ch as t he

I n te r n a ti onal Sym po siu m on Agr ic ul tura l Te r roris m hel d in
K a ns a s Ci ty, w hic h we in itiate d an d ho sted for t he th ird-
y e ar , i n supp o rt of th e “Farm- to -F ork” Pro g ram, wh ich is
d e si g n e d to e n sur e the s afety of o ur n atio n ’s fo od su pplie s.
T h e s y m po sium thi s yea r attrac te d more tha n 500 at ten dees
f r om l a w enfo r cem en t, go vernme nt , and crit i cally , the
p r iv a t e i ndus t ry. And o f cour se w e’ve had at le as t o ne WM D
c o or d i n at or i n ea ch of o ur off ic es to coor d inate a nd ensur e
t h e p r o pe r FB I re sp ons e.

S h ou l d a WMD d evi ce be d iscove re d in t he U . S., t he FB I has

b u il t t he cap a bil it y a nd capac it y to r espo n d thr ou gh such an
e v en t , th roug h ou r For wa rd Dep lo ye d As sets and o ur Cr itica l
I n st a n t R espo n se Gr oup , who ha s ex pert ise i n the R end er Sa fe
M i ss i o n . And wit h reg ar d to o ur f oren sic c apabi li tie s, ou r
F B I l a b or ator y pr ov ide s techni ca l expe rts i n the f iel d of
C B RN m a te rial s to a ssi st other a ge ncie s. T he la b wor ks wi th
a n e x t e ns ive n etw or k o f state an d fede ral l abora to rie s to
p r ov i d e s cree n ing s erv ic es for m at eria l wi t h pot en tia l WMD
n e xu s .

T o f u r t he r en h anc e our e fforts i n the bio- t error is m a rena

b o th i n N ew Y o rk an d L os Angel es m etro poli t an ar ea s, under
t h e l e a de rshi p of C omm is sioner K el ly a nd C h ief B ra tto n, ha ve
a g re e d to con d uct j oin t bioter ro ri sm t rain i ng an d
i n ve s t i ga tion s , i f and w hen ne ce ss ary, to i nclud e pub lic
s a fe t y an d pu b lic h eal th agenc ie s. Th ese a greem en ts detai l
i n fo r m a ti on s h ari ng pr ot ocols an d proc edur e s for c ond uctin g
j o in t t hr eat a sse ss men ts , and if n eces sary , inte rv iew s
d u ri n g an inc i den t wit h a poss ib le nex us t o a bi o- ter roris m
e v en t .

A n d i n an eff o rt to pr ev ent th e U. S. f rom W MD re la ted

a t ta c k , t he F B I i s con ce ntrati ng o ur e ffor t s on so urc es of
W M D m a t er ial a lre ad y i n the U. S. , as C hief Bratt on
m e nt i o n ed . P r ote ct ing s ources o f mate rial requi re s l arge-
s c al e p ri vate ind us try a nd gov er nm ent coop e ratio n. T hose in
a c ad e m i a and t he pr iva te indus tr y may well be th e fir st to
n o te a n y unus u al be hav io r.

T r ai n i n g is a l so vi tal t o our co op erat ive e ffort s. W e nee d

t o k n o w h ow b e st to re sp ond to a p endi ng t h reat pr ior to a
r e al n e ed ari s ing . To t hat en d, w e ro utin e ly tr ai n f edera l,
s t at e , lo cal a gen ci es, a nd som e in tern atio n al pa rt ner s. I n
f a ct , t o date we’ ve tr ai ned mo re t han 5,00 0 part ic ipa nts
t h ro u g h ou t th e U. S. an d 23 cou nt ri es. And of co ur se by
t r ai n i n g toge t her w e c an bette r wo rk t oget h er wh en th e tim e
c o me s .

W e a l l fa ce t h e p ro spe ct that at s ome poin t in t he fu ture,

p e rh a p s s oon, a t er ror is t will s te al, smug g le, b uy , o r bui ld
a WM D . A gain , we m ust f ocus o n pr even tion . The F BI is
p r es e n t in g a l aye re d a pp roach to c ount er t h e thr ea t o f WMD ,
f r om t h e trai n ing o f f ir st res po nd ers, to t he WM D
c o or d i n at ors, and o ur bi otechn ic ia ns i n ev e ry FB I fie ld
o f fi c e , t o th e re gi ona l teams an d labo rato r ies, to th e vit al
p a rt n e r sh ip w i th lo cal l aw enf or ce ment .

O u r g r e at est t ool i s d ed icatio n an d co llab o ratio n. T he

e n em y , we kno w , i s ded ic ated, bu t we a re m o re so . Ou r wor k
i s b u i l t on t h e i de a t ha t toge th er we are s marte r and
s t ro n g e r than we ar e s ta nding al on e. Beca u se no p ers on, n o
F B I a g e nt , no pol ic e o ff icer, no s ingl e ag e ncy c an pr event a
W M D a t t ac k on its o wn. There ar e too many unloc ke d d oors
a n d u n k no wn p l aye rs , t oo many po rt s an d po r ous b or der s.
Y e t, t o ge ther , wo rk ing w ith co ll ea gues wor l dwide , we can
s t op t h os e wh o se ek to b uy suc h ma teri al o n the bl ack
m a rk e t , w e ca n ha lt th e develo pm en t of dan g erous b iol ogica l
a n d c h e mi cal w eap on s, an d we c an s top terr o rists f rom usin g
t h e t e c hn olog y to t hre at en our c it izen s. W e can a nd we
m u st . Th ank y ou.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you ve ry m uch, sir . Our t wo lead

q u es t i o ne rs w i ll be Co mm ission er S herm an a n d Com mi ssi oner
R a de m a k er . W e ndy .

C O MM . A MB . SH E RMA N: T ha nk you a ll for com i ng, a nd fo r

t e rr i f i c test i mon y. F ir st, I th in k on beh a lf of a ll the
c o mm i s s io ners , pl ea se th ank th e me n an d wo m en wh o are on t he
s t re e t s e very day , as po lice o ff ic ers, as s pecia l age nts, or
a s b a c k o ffic e s t ha t h el p to k ee p us a ll s a fe. An d I hope
y o u’ l l co nvey to al l o f your t ro op s, o ur g r atitu de fo r wha t
t h ey d o .

S e co ndly , yo u eac h have a v er y sp ecia l pers pe cti ve.

C o mm i s s io ner K ell y, yo u’ ve wor ke d both at t he fe de ral
g o ve r n m en t an d he re in t he NYP D as com miss i oner. Chi ef
B r at t o n , you’ v e w or ked b oth on t he Eas t Co a st an d the West
C o as t . A nd D e put y Dir ec tor Pi st ol e, y ou h a ve wo rk ed both as
a sp e c i al age n t i n the F BI, be gi nn ing in y o ur ca re er, to n ow
b e in g D ep uty D ire ct or an d havi ng r espo nsib i lity fo r c ounte r-
t e rr o r i sm , a n ew mi ssi on for t he F BI.

S o I ’d l i ke to as k each o f yo u, C ommi s sione r Kel ly, i n

y o ur p e rs pect i ve, w hat h ave yo u le arne d fr o m hol di ng those
t w o d i f fe rent per sp ect iv es of ha vi ng w orke d in t he fe deral
g o ve r n m en t an d no w in th e loca l le vel, tha t migh t inf orm o ur
m o vi n g fo rwar d to a sa fe r plac e?

C h ie f B ra tton , fr om yo ur persp ec ti ve a nd y o ur wo rk on both

c o as t s , w hat d oes t he re st of th e coun try n ot un de rst and
a b ou t w ha t ha p pen ed he re on th e Ea st C oast ?

A n d t o yo u, D e put y Dir ec tor, t he F BI h as t r ied t o mak e a

s h if t a nd wha t ha ve yo u learne d ab out how t hat c ul tur al
s h if t i s goin g an d how i t’s no t go ing? Th a nk yo u.

C O MM I S S IO NER K ELL Y: I w ould s ay , cutt ing r ight to th e

c h as e , th at w o rki ng in t he fed er al gov ernm e nt is , it’ s
p o nd e r o us , it ’ s d if fic ul t to g et t hing s do n e, de ci sio n-
m a ki n g is slo w ed by ma ny layer s of bur eauc r acy, lo ts of
a t to r n e ys inv o lve d in de cision -m ak ing, whi c h is no t
n e ce s s a ri ly a bad t hin g. But on a loc al l e vel, we ar e and
w e h a v e t o be , mu ch mo re respo ns iv e. And w e sor t of pride
o u rs e l v es on t hat .

S o t h a t h as b e en, y ou kn ow—I w as i n lo cal g overn me nt, left

a n d w e n t to t h e f ed era l govern me nt and now I’m b ac k t o loc al
g o ve r n m en t. T hat ’s th e thing th at —and I h a ve se ve ral peop le
w o rk i n g w ith m e, Da vid C ohen [ ph on etic ], a n d Ric ha rd
F a lk e n r at h [p h one ti c], a bsolut e su pers tars in ou r bus iness ,
w h o h a v e the s ame r eac ti on. A nd I don ’t k n ow ho w you can
t r an s l a te , I d on’ t kno w how mu ch y ou c an c h ange th e
p r oc e s s es in t he fe der al gover nm en t. But i t jus t alw ays
s e em e d to be d iff ic ult t o, to ge t thin gs d o ne, i n my
e x pe r i e nc e in the f ede ra l gove rn me nt.

W e k n o w t hat w e h av e t o act fa st er . W e se e ours el ves bein g

o n t o p of the ter ro ris t target l is t, s o wh e n we pu t a
p r og r a m i n pl a ce, w e’r e going to i mple ment it ri gh t a way.
W e k n o w t hat e ver y day w e depl oy 1 ,000 pol i ce of fi cer s in
o u r c o u nt er-t e rro ri sm ef forts. Th at’s a m a jor i nv est ment
f o r a d ep artm e nt th at is down ab ou t 12 % in our u ni for m hea d-
c o un t . B ut w e fe el th at we ha ve t o do it a nd we d o i t
q u ic k e r , we d o it 2 4-h ou rs a d ay .
S o t h a t ’s kin d of m y t ak e away , a quic k ta k e awa y. I t’s
m u ch d e ep er t h an th at, y ou kno w, i n a lot o f oth er ar eas,
b u t i t is the dif fe ren ce betwe en g etti ng t h ings do ne in a
i m me d i a te , ha v e t o do it manne r, in lo cal g ov ern ment, and
j u st t h e pond e rou s nat ur e of e ff ec ting a d e cisio n, or
e f fe c t i ng cha n ge in fe de ral go ve rn ment .

C O MM . A MB . SH E RMA N: T ha nk you .

C H IE F B RA TTON : E ch oin g Commis si on er K elly ’ s com me nts , tha t

w e i n t e ra ct, c ert ai nly w ith a lo t of f eder a l off ic ial s and I
s p ea k f or ele c ted m emb er s of c on gr ess, but I hav e not met
a n yb o d y t hat’ s in t he bu reaucr ac y that ’s h a ppy a nd fe els
t h at t h ey ’re g ett in g m uc h done , wi th a ny g r eat s pe ed.

S o i n th e lo ca l l ev el, th er e was a hi g her d eg ree of

s a ti s f a ct ion t hat y ou ar e able t o, lit eral l y, al mo st
i n st a n t an eous l y s om eti me , see th e bene fit o f the d eci sions
y o u’ r e ma king .

T h e p e r sp ecti v e, Ea st Co ast, N ew Y ork City , West C oas t, no w

L o s A n g el es; b ein g qui te frank w it h yo u, t h e far th er we ge t
a w ay f r om the eve nt s o f 9/11, 20 0l , an d th e fart he r,
g e og r a p hi call y , w e get a way fr om t he E ast C oast Co rri dor;
t h e i s s ue s an d co nc ern t hat we ’r e disc ussi n g her e, th ey
d i mi n i s h sign i fic an tly . In th e la st, now a lmost s ix- years
I ’ ve b e en Chi e f o f the L os Ang el es Pol ice D epart me nt, I ha ve
h a d t o fi ght, lit er all y tooth an d nail , to expan d the
c a pa c i t y of o u r c ou nte r- terror is m effo rts. I ha ve
p r op o r t io nate l y, wi th 30 0 offi ce rs out of m y 9,5 00 pe rson
d e pa r t m en t, r o ugh ly th e equiva le nt of what Commi ss ion er
K e ll y h as wit h hi s 34, 00 0, com mi tt ed t o th i s eff or t.

B u t u n l ik e, I bel ie ve, t he sup po rt he gets at th e loc al

l e ve l h er e, b e cau se th ey were he re on 9/11 and t he y
u n de r s t an d th a t N ew Yo rk remai ns s till the most si gni fican t
t a rg e t in the cou nt ry; L os Ang el es doe s no t quit e get it t o
t h e d e g re e th a t N ew Yo rk gets it . For tuna t ely, I hav e a
m a yo r t ha t’s c omm it ted t o it a nd h as b een v ery s up por tive of
t h e e f f or ts I can m ake t o assi gn m y re sour c es wi th out goin g
t h ro u g h a phe n ome na l l ev els of b ur eauc racy .

S o w e h av e pr i ori ti zed t his is su e, bec ause again , of the

l i ke l i h oo d th a t n ex t t o New Yo rk o r Wa shin g ton, we be lieve
t h at w e a re i t . 40 % o f the go od s that com e into t he Unite d
S t at e s th roug h ou r por t, Long Be ac h, L os A n geles ; we have
L A X, w h ic h ha s be en ta rg eted i n th e pa st. We ha ve th e
e n te r t a in ment ind us try , which to A l-Qa eda a nd ot he rs, woul d
b e t h e ro ot o f al l evi l. And so f or m any r eason s we do pa y
a lo t o f atte n tio n to th is iss ue . Muc h mo r e so, I th ink,
t h an m a ny of m y c ol lea gu es aro un d the coun t ry ar e abl e to,
b e ca u s e o f th e ir li mit ed resou rc es or beca u se of t hei r lac k
o f p r o x im ity t o t he ev en t itse lf , or g eogr a phica ll y, the
d i st a n c e they are f rom i t.

A n d t h a t’ s wh e re th e f ed eral g ov er nmen t co m es in to pl ay in
t h e s e n se we n eed t hem i n the ga me , bu t at the s am e t ime
t h at w e d on’t nee d, ne ce ssaril y, t otal con t rol b y the
f e de r a l g over n men t. T he commi ss io n an d I n eed t o mak e
d e ci s i o ns abo u t o ur pa rt icular i ss ues, and so if t her e is an
e v en t o cc urri n g i n Lon do n—the su bw ays— well , I ca nn ot wait
f o r t h e f eder a l g ov ern me nt to gi ve me info r matio n tha t I
n e ed t o m ake r ela ti ve to my su bw ay sys tem; certa in ly here in
N e w Y o r k City whe re it ’s such a li feli ne f o r the w hol e cit y.

W e h a v e c ome a lo ng wa y. We h av e come a l o ng wa y in the

s e ns e t ha t, I thi nk as I ’ve in di ca ted, tha t I ca n onl y spe ak
f o r t h e L os A n gel es ex pe rience , th at r elat i onshi ps ar e goo d,
v e ry g o od , an d ge tt ing b etter. We sti ll m a nage to ar m
w r es t l e o ver i ssu es of d ifficu lt ie s in fun d ing, bu t I thin k
w e a r e un ited in th e i de a that w e are movi n g in a com mon
d i re c t i on .

D E PU T Y DI RECT O R P IS TOL E: Than k yo u, A mbas s ador. As is

r e pr e s e nt ativ e of o ne of the p on de rous age n cies, l et me se e
i f I c a n addr e ss th at. [Laugh te r] . I thi n k the re ’s reall y
t w o t a k e- away s th at we h ave ha d si nce 9/11 . The f irs t,
b e in g o ur utm o st in ter de penden ce a nd r elia n ce up on ot her
a g en c i e s to g e t t he jo b done. I n many res p ects, p rio r to
9 / 11 , f or exa m ple , I w or ked on a j oint org a nized c rim e
t a sk f o r ce wit h th e NYP D 20-yea rs a go a nd t h ere w as a great
r e la t i o ns hip t her e. B ut beyon d th at, it w a s a m at ter of, we
c o ul d g et the job d one .

I n m a n y i nsta n ces , FBI a gents an d empl oyee s have l ook ed at ,

j u st w i th in o u rse lv es, p rior t o 9/ 11, to s a y yes w e c an ge t
t h e j o b d one. So w hat 9 /11 ha s do ne i s he l ped u s rea lize
t h e c r i ti cal i nte rd epe nd ence o f, n ot j ust s tate an d l ocal
l a w e n f or ceme n t—t hr ee- qu arters o f a mi llio n stat e and loca l
o f fi c e r s out t her e on th e stre et s— who are m ore l ik ely to
d e te c t so meth i ng th an th e 12,0 00 o r so FBI agent s. B ut
t h en , h ow we c an sh are t hat in fo rm atio n fr o m the i nte l
c o mm u n i ty and bac k and f orth. S o that ’s o n e iss ue , t he
i n te r d e pe nden c e.

T h e s e c on d, i s on t he cu ltural s hi ft t hat y ou me nt ion ed.

A n d i t is —we’ v e b ee n w or king m ig ht ily to a d dress t hat issu e,
b e ca u s e t here has b een a signi fi ca nt c ultu r al sh if t. And we
h a ve m a de sig n ifi ca nt st rides, I b elie ve, i n the a rea of
m o vi n g fr om w h at I thi nk was g en er ally see i ng pa rt of 9/11
a s l a r g el y a r eac ti ve or ganiza ti on —go out a nd so lv e c rimes
a n d d o a very goo d job o f that —t o one of b e ing a t hre at-
b a se d , in tell i gen ce -dr iv en org an iz atio n.

A n d l e t m e ju s t g iv e y ou an ex am pl e of the thous an ds of
o n go i n g c ount e r-t er ror is m inv es ti gati ons w e hav e tod ay,
e a ch a n d ever y on e of th ose is f ir st a nd f o remos t and
i n te l l i ge nce c oll ec tio n platfo rm ; it i s no t a la w
e n fo r c e me nt i n ves ti gat io n. It i s an o ppor t unity f or us to
c o ll e c t i nfor m ati on un de r the la wf ul g uide l ines, s tat utes,
a n d e v e ry thin g —to c oll ec t info rm at ion to s e e if th ere is a
t h re a t ; t o sh a re th at wi th our p ar tner s in state a nd local
l a w e n f or ceme n t; to sh ar e that w it h th e in t ellig en ce
c o mm u n i ty and the n mak e an ass es sm ent. If there a re
c r im i n a l sanc t ion s tha t might be a vail able , do w e tak e
a c ti o n on tho s e i mm edi at ely or d o we h old t hose in ab eyanc e
u n ti l t he rig h t t im e, so all o f ou r pa rtne r s can h ave the
i n pu t a s to w h eth er we a re tak in g down a c a se to o soo n,
b a si c a l ly . S o th os e a re the t wo t ake- away s .

C O MM . A MB . SH E RMA N: T ha nk you . O ne o ther very qu ick

q u es t i o n, so t hat m y c ol league s ge t so me t i me. We ’ve
t a lk e d , n ot a gre at de al today a bo ut t he p r ivate s ect or, b ut
y o u a l l h ave m ent io ned i t in y ou r comm ents . Wou ld yo u jus t
s p ea k b ri efly on ho w y ou think w e ough t to be en ga gin g the
p r iv a t e s ecto r , w ay s p er haps w e ar e no t to deal wi th
c h em i c a l, bio l ogi ca l, ra diolog ic al , an d nu c lear th rea ts?

C H IE F B RA TTON : W el l, I can te ll y ou a n or g aniza ti on that we

h a ve s t ar ted h ere ; it’ s NYPD S hi el d. It’s an um br ell a
o r ga n i z at ion t hat i nvo lv es 3,0 00 b usin esse s . We c onn ect t o
t h em , B la ckBe r ry In ter ne t, on a dail y basis . We hold
t r ai n i n g sess i ons f or th em, bo th f or s peci f ic in du str ies o r
a r ea s o f busi n ess . We h old se ss io ns i n ou r head qu art ers,
a t te n d e d by a s ma ny as 5 00 rep re se ntat ives of th es e
b u si n e s se s, g i vin g the m an up- to -d ate syno p sis o f wor ld
s i tu a t i on s.

I n t he t r ain in g c om ponent , we add ress the n ee d t o be

a w ar e , to be v igi la nt. We hav e a fair amo u nt of a lum ni;
p e op l e wh o wo r ked i n t he polic e de part ment who a re in the
s e cu r i t y posi t ion s in th ese bi g co mpan ies. So I t hin k we’ re
c o mm u n i ca ting wel l, we ’r e enga gi ng in a lo t of t ra ini ng wi th
t h em , a nd as w e g o for wa rd, I th in k we bec o me a li ttl e bit
m o re s o ph isti c ate d.

I n o u r Lo wer M anh at tan S ecurit y In itia tive — I men ti one d it

b r ie f l y i n pr e par ed re ma rks—th is i s ou r ef f ort t o pro tect
t h e 1 . 7 s quar e mi le s s ou th of Ca na l St reet . We’ ll ha ve
3 , 00 0 c am eras ; th er e’l l be 2,0 00 p riva te s e ctor an d 1 ,000
p u bl i c se ctor cam er as th at wil l be mer ged. We’l l hav e abo ut
1 5 0 l i c en se p l ate r ead er s; we’ ll h ave actu a l phy si cal
b a rr i e r s that wil l ena bl e us, in e xtre me s i tuati on s, to wa ll
o f f t h e a rea; we’ ll ad d 600 po li ce off icer s to t ha t a rea.
A n d w e ha ve a coo rd ina ti on cen te r wher e we ’ ll ha ve pu blic
a n d p r i va te s t ake ho lde rs in th at c oord inat i on ce nt er.

I n k eepi n g w it h t hi s, we in te nd t o—no t unli ke th e

B r it i s h p rogr a m t ha t t he y have , ca lled Ope r ation G rif fin, I
b e li e v e —w e in t end t o r ai se the p ri vate sec u rity
p r of e s s io nali s m, yo u m ig ht say , in thi s ar e a to a hig her
l e ve l t o work mor e clo se ly wit h us . A nd a lot o f
r e ce p t i vi ty f o r t ha t; we ’ve sp ok en to all t he ma jo r
s t ak e h o ld ers i n t ha t a re a. Th at t ype of t r ainin g, th at ty pe
o f p a r t ne rshi p wi ll go a long wa y in h elpi n g us pr ote ct th at
a r ea o f t he c i ty, b ut we ’re go in g to t ake t hat a nd mi grate
i t t o o th er i n dus tr ies t hrough ou t the city as we ll .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you.

C H IE F B RA TTON : W e’ re en gaged in v ery simi l ar ef fo rts to N ew

Y o rk . Th ree e xam pl es th at we ha ve —a n etwo r k to re vam p
[ p ho n e t ic ] co m mun ic ati on that go es out to m ost o f the
s e cu r i t y dire c tor s tha t have i de nt ifie d cr i tical l oca tions ,
b u si n e s se s, e t ce te ra, s o that w e are in a posit io n t o, wh en
w e r e c e iv e an ale rt , s om ething t ha t mi ght b e a s pe cif ic
c o nc e r n t o th e Lo s Ang el es reg io n, we’ re a b le to g et
i n fo r m a ti on t o th em fa ir ly qui ck ly . A nd t h en al so ha ve th e
a b il i t y t o ga t her t hem u p very q ui ckly , to give th em more
i n -d e p t h brie f ing s. A nd annua ll y, we hold a con fe ren ce—a
j o in t l y s pons o red c onf er ence—w he re we brin g 500 of th ese
p e op l e to geth e r o n an an nual b as is , to jus t meet f ace -to-
f a ce . Th at’s a p ro gra m that i s co ntin uing to ex pa nd.

S e co ndly , in C ali fo rnia, th e stan dard s for pr iva te

s e cu r i t y offi c ers —a lmo st 2.5 m il li on o f th e m in th e c ountr y—
a n d t h e y have add it ion al sets of e yes and e ars b ey ond our
t h re e - q ua rter - mil li on pu blic s af et y of fice r s. S ta nda rds
t h er e r eq uire tha t pri va te sec ur it y of fice r s, wh ic h t here
a r e t e n s of t h ous an ds in the L os A ngel es r e gion, h ave
t r ai n i n g leve l s t ha t w e are no w ab le t o im p act o n, in the
s e ns e o f gett i ng th em en gaged in t he e ffor t s tha t we have.

T h e S u s pi ciou s Ac ti vit y Report in g Syst em t h at we r ece ntly

d e ve l o p ed in L os An gel es —and t ha t Home land Secur it y i s
s e ek i n g t o ad o pt an d e xp and th ro ug hout the law e nf orc ement
c o mm u n i ty —whi c h i s bas ic ally, tr ai ning all of ou r off icers
t o l o o k f or s i gns o f p ot ential t er rori st a c tivit y. O n our
b a si c r ep ort f orm , the re are b ox es to chec k that e nsu re th at
t h at t h en goe s to o ur Fu sion C en te r fo r fu r ther an aly sis.
W e h a v e t he c a pab il ity o ver th e ne xt s ever a l yea rs , o f
g r ow i n g t hat t o t he pr iv ate se cu ri ty a rena , with t he
t r ai n i n g they ’ re re qui re d to r ec ei ve a s we l l as th e t raini ng
c a pa b i l it ies w e h av e t o keep t he m netw orke d .

A n d t h e n thir d ly, w ith t he ini ti at ive that was f un ded by t he

f e de r a l g over n men t and i s now be in g ex pand e d by Ho mel and
S e cu r i t y, the Arc ha nge l Projec t. It’s an e ffort t o d evelo p
a na t i o na l ma t rix o f h ow do yo u id enti fy w h at is a cr itica l
s i te ? A crit i cal s ite i n term s of som e th i ngs y ou wo uld
n o rm a l l y thin k of ; a p ow er pla nt , but also a hos pi tal that ’s
d o in g r es earc h ; r es ear ch on bi oc he mica l ty p es of s itu ation s
f o r e x a mp le; a nd wo rki ng with th e secu rity direc to rs of
t h os e f ac ilit i es; h ow do you c he ck the m, h o w do yo u p reven t
t h ef t , ho w do you p rev en t ille ga l intr usio n into t hem ?

S o w e a re rea l ly ge tti ng much be tt er a t th i s, bu t a l ot of

t h is , o nc e ag a in co mes b ack to t he iss ue o f fund in g, the
i s su e o f tryi n g t o get s ome ge ne ri c th ings under w ay so th at
w e a r e ab le t o ta lk wi th each ot he r.

A n d i n cl osin g , i f I m ay , just e ch oing som e of w ha t’s been

d i sc u s s ed her e . Pa rt of the i ss ue is the i dea o f— the FBI
b e ga n t hi s ef f ort a s t he y trie d— in the pro c ess o f cha nging
t h ei r m is sion to fo cus m ore on c ou nter -ter r orism , lit erall y
c h an g e d t he c u ltu re by a lso tr ai ni ng m any t housa nd s o f
a n al y s t s; not nec es sar il y were t he y fu ll a g ents, b ut
a n al y s t s. An d pa rt of t hat ef fo rt is to t a ke so me of thos e
s p ac e s an d al l ow th e l oc al pol ic e to h ave p eople t rai ned s o
t h at t h ey ’re a ble t o i nt eract wi th eac h ot h er; s om e d egree
o f g e n e ri c tr a ini ng be tw een th em —t alki ng t h e sam e lan guage .

B u t a l s o the e xpa ns ion o f that s o that so m uch o f wha t goe s

o n , o f t en time s , i s rel at ionshi ps , pers onal relat io nsh ips.
D i re c t o r Muel l er, h e a nd I wor ke d in t he e i ghtie s, ba ck in
B o st o n , s o we ’ ve go t a r elatio ns hi p th ere t hat g oe s b ack
m a ny y e ar s. O ne of hi s assist an t dire ctor s is m y for mer
h e ad o f c ount e r-t er ror is m, so I ha ve a rel a tions hi p t here.
S o t h e r e’ s re l ati on shi ps that yo u cann ot u n deres ti mat e in
t h e s e n se of t rai ni ng pe ople t og et her, hav i ng th em co me
t o ge t h e r for j oin t exe rc ises, ke ep ing them netwo rk ed
t o ge t h e r.

A n d s o it ’s p a rt of , o nc e agai n, c ommu nity polic in g. We

w a nt c o ps on t he be at th at kno w th e co mmun i ty; t he co mmuni ty
k n ow s t he m. W e w an t a na lysts on t he b eat w ho kn ow ea ch
o t he r , ar e jo i ntl y tra in ed, jo in tl y ex erci s ed, a nd ar e
c o nt i n u al ly e x cha ng ing i nforma ti on amo ng t h emsel ve s.

D E PU T Y DI RECT O R P IS TOL E: If I c ou ld h ave 1 0-sec on ds worth .

E x te n s i ve and exp an din g liaiso n, a nd o utre a ch wi th th e
p r iv a t e s ecto r ; I nf rag ua rd, wh ic h is a cyb e r bas ed , o ver
2 5 ,0 0 0 us ers, DSA C, wh ic h is b as ed on the O SAC, th e S tate
D e pa r t m en t. T his i s D om estic Se cu rity All i ance Co unc il, a nd
t h e H i g he r Ed u cat io n I ni tiativ e. Ther e’s a lot be hin d tha t,
b u t t h a t’ s in a n ut she ll .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: M r. Ra demake r.

M R . R A D EM AKER : G en tle ma n, tha nk y ou v ery m uch f or yo ur

t e st i m o ny and tha nk yo u for al l th at y ou d o . On e of the
t h em e s th at h a s e me rge d in our r ev iew of t h e who le co unter -
t e rr o r i sm are a is t hat —i t has to d o wi th t h e cri ti cal
i m po r t a nc e of inf or mat io n-shar in g. An d a n umber o f y ou
t o uc h e d o n th a t i n you r testim on y.

A n d t h i s pane l af fo rds u s an i nt er esti ng o p portu ni ty,

b e ca u s e t he t h ree o f y ou repre se nt var ious compo ne nts of t he
l a w e n f or ceme n t c om mun it y, and y ou ’re all s aying t hat —I
t h in k a ll of y ou ar e s ay ing—th at t here hav e been s eri ous
p r ob l e m s in t h e p as t w it h info rm at ion- shar i ng. I thi nk
y o u’ r e sa ying we co uld s till d o a much bet t er jo b, go ing
f o rw a r d , and f or th e t hr ee of yo u to s ay t h at, s it tin g the re
t o ge t h e r, is s ome th ing o f a se lf -c riti cism , beca us e y ou
r e pr e s e nt the ent it ies t hat ar e— th at n eed t o do a bet ter
j o b. I t hink tha t’ s w ha t you’ re t elli ng u s .

A n d s o I real l y c an ’t re sist t ry in g to pro v oke t hi s a litt le

b i t m o r e by a s kin g a q ue stion, o r seve ral q uesti on s, about
i n fo r m a ti on-s h ari ng . An d mayb e I will use one i ss ue that’ s
b e en i d en tifi e d h er e, th at’s o f in tere st t o me a s a v ehicl e
o r a m e ch anis m fo r tri gg ering a di scus sion — a bro ad er
d i sc u s s io n of inf or mat io n-shar in g. Th is p r actic e you have
i n t h e NY PD, C omm is sio ne r Kell y, o f de ploy i ng 11 d ete ctive s,
i n te r n a ti onal l y, to fo re ign of fi ce s is rea l ly a re mar kable
t h in g f or a m u nic ip al po lice d ep ar tmen t to do. An d I ’m no t
s u re w h et her a ny ot her c ities ha ve don e it .

B u t I w as n’t e ven a war e of thi s pr acti ce b e fore I was made a

m e mb e r of thi s co mm iss io n. Pe rh ap s yo u co u ld ex pl ain a
l i tt l e bi t mo r e t ha n y ou did i n yo ur p repa r ed te st imo ny,
c o mm i s s io ner, wha t the f unctio n of the se p o lice of fic ers
o v er s e a s is. My in iti al under st an ding was that it wa s
e s se n t i al ly i n tel li gen ce colle ct io n. I th i nk th at wo uld b e
t h e a p p ro pria t e t er m t o apply to i t. But M ayor Bl oom berg,
i n h i s te stim o ny ea rli er this mo rn ing, als o talk ed ab out
u s in g t he m to obt ai n i nf ormati on a bout bes t prac ti ces ,
i n te r n a ti onal l y, an d t o try an d br ing that back. So it
s o un d s to me l ike m ayb e their fu nc tion is m ore t ha n j ust
c o ll e c t in g in t ell ig enc e, but I ’d l ike you t o com me nt on th at
f i rs t .

S e co n d , I ’m w o nde ri ng if the f ac t that you ’ ve do ne th is,

t h at y o ur dep a rtm en t h as deplo ye d poli ce o f ficer s
i n te r n a ti onal l y i s an im plicit c ri tici sm o f the jo b t he
f e de r a l g over n men t’ s d oi ng in ob ta inin g an d shar in g t his
k i nd o f i nfor m ati on wi th you. B ec ause I w o uld t hi nk this is
r e al l y mo re o f a fe der al funct io n, to depl o y law e nfo rceme nt
o f fi c e r s over s eas i n l ia ison r el at ions hips with la w
e n fo r c e me nt c o unt er par ts in ot he r coun trie s .

A n d t h e n, Chi e f B ra tto n, I not ed i n yo ur, y our t es tim ony y ou

t a lk a b ou t—yo u ha ve th is FLOAT c on cept , wh i ch Fo re ign
L i ai s o n O ffic e rs Ag ain st Terro ri sm , wh ich i f I u nd ers tand it
i s b a s i ca lly t o p ro mot e sharin g am ong poli c e dep ar tme nts, of
i n fo r m a ti on o b tai ne d b y practi ce s like tha t enga ge d i n by
t h e N Y P D. So I’m w ond er ing if i n putt ing f orwar d tha t ide a,
y o u’ r e im plic i tly c rit ic izing th e NYPD for not s ha rin g
i n fo r m a ti on f r om yo u t ha t they o bt aine d th r ough th eir
c u rr e n t p rogr a m, or wh at it is t he FLO AT w o uld p ro vid e. I t
s o un d s to me l ike y ou wa nt the b en efit s th a t the N YPD is
g a in i n g t hrou g h t hi s p ro gram, an d mayb e yo u coul d ela borat e
a li t t l e on t h at.

F i na l l y , we h a ve Di rec to r Pist ol e, and I g u ess t he —a lot o f

c r it i c i sm is a ime d at th e fede ra l gove rnme n t for n ot shari ng
e n ou g h in form a tio n wit h local de pa rtme nts. But I’ m
w o nd e r i ng , ma y be fr om th e fede ra l pers pect i ve, i f you ’d
c o mm e n t o n th e in fo rma ti on-sha ri ng in the o ther di rec tion.
A r e y o u g aini n g i ns igh ts based o n— deri ved f rom t he se 11 NY PD
o f fi c e r s over s eas ? Ar e you ob ta in ing othe r info rm ati on fr om
s t at e a nd loc a l l aw en fo rcemen t of fice rs t h at’s us efu l to
y o u i n yo ur w o rk, i n f ig hting te rr oris m? I thin k you see
t h e d i r ec tion I’d l ike y ou to go i n. And I thin k I w ill
s t op a n d let y ou re spo nd . Tha nk y ou.

C O MM . K EL LY: Let m e s ta rt. W e ar e si ttin g abou t fiv e

b l oc k s fr om t h e W or ld Tr ade Ce nt er , wh ere w e had 2 ,80 0
p e op l e ki lled . T he Wo rl d Trad e Ce nter ’s b e en at ta cke d
t w ic e . W e’ve had s ix ot her pl ot s that I m e ntion ed in my
p r ep a r e d rema r ks, a t N ew York Ci ty . S o cl e arly, w e’r e a
l i tt l e di ffer e nt th an an y plac e el se i n th i s cou nt ry. So we
w a nt a n yt hing tha t’ s g oi ng to he lp us bett e r pro te ct this
c i ty . An d we bel ie ve th at hav in g peop le o v ersea s and
i n te r a c ti ng w i th ot her p olice ag en cies , if they ca n g ive u s
a n y b i t o f in f orm at ion t hat’s go in g to hel p us b et ter
p r ot e c t t he c i ty, t hen i t’s we ll w orth it.

B y t h e wa y, t h ese o ffi ce rs are f un ded by a priva te

f o un d a t io n. O bvi ou sly , their sa la ries are paid by
t a xp a y e rs , bu t th e exp en ses of t he ir o vers e as de pl oym ent a re
f r om a pr ivat e fo un dat io n.

N o w t h e a re e m bed de d w it h poli ce a genc ies. Now LE GAT S,

w h ic h a re leg a l a tt ach é’ s the FB I have , th e y wor k in the
e m ba s s y w ith U .S. p ers on nel. Ou r offi cers are w or kin g wit h
o t he r p ol ice a gen ci es. For in st an ce, in T e l Avi v, th ey’re
w o rk i n g w ith t he po lic e and if a n atta ck h a ppens , an event
h a pp e n s , they ’ re ab le to go ou t an d ge t in f ormat io n w ithin
a n h o u r ’s tim e an d sen d it bac k to us, her e , in a ver y wel l
d o ne — a pa rtic u lar o ffi ce r we h av e ther e no w , is ve ry
r e sp o n s iv e.

I wa n t to giv e yo u one e xample t ha t I thin k is i ns igh tful.

I n J u l y 7 th of 2005, we had the bombings in the subway system—the
metro system, in London, - - . Now it happened at 8:00 their
time, five-hours ahead. We didn’t know what that was; we didn’t
know if it was a, if it was a worldwide plot that would happen.
But our office was in the metro New Scotland Yard headquarters,
right there, working with them, able to give us real time
information, tell us everything that they had. We were able as a
result of that, to deploy additional resources in our subway
system.

A t t h e ve ry l e ast , we kn ew tha t pe ople wou l d be co nce rned.

W e t r i e d to r a ise t hei r comfor t le vel. Th i s was a wo rldwi de
s t or y t ha t th e y w er e s ee ing on t he ir t elev i sions a t 7 :00 i n
t h e m o r ni ng. So th at’ s one ex am pl e th at I felt wa s
e x tr e m e ly hel p ful .

I n t h e Ma drid bom bi ngs , we sen t ou r of fice r from T el Aviv to

M a dr i d th at d a y, an d w or king i n a sort of I nterp ol fu nctio n,
h e w a s ab le t o ge t us sp ecific i nf orma tion about h ow the
b o mb s w er e de p loy ed . We then de pl oyed add i tiona l off icers
i n o u r su bway sys te m t o counte r- ac t th at s o rt of a cti vity.
N o w t h a t is i n ter -n ati on ; that , qu ite fran k ly is n ot comin g
f r om t h e fede r al go ver nm ent.

A n d o u r p osit i on he re is —we ne ed t he f eder a l gov er nme nt—no

q u es t i o n abou t it —b ut we can’t r el y on the feder al
g o ve r n m en t al o ne, t o p ro tect u s. And that ’ s why w e’r e doi ng
l o ts o f o ther thi ng s i n the ci ty , not just deplo yi ng
o f fi c e r s over s eas . Bu t we’re lo ok ing for a ny bi t of
i n fo r m a ti on t h at’ s goi ng to pr ot ec t th is c i ty. An d i f it
e m an a t e s from ano th er co untry, f in e. And w e obv io usl y are
w e ll r e ce ived ; we ’r e n ot forci ng o ur w ay i n to th es e v enues .
T h ey w a nt us t her e.

N o w a s th e ma y or sa id, w e also l ea rn b est p racti ce s. Thos e

c i ti e s se nd p e opl e ove r here; th ey wor k wi t h us. We have
t h e o f f ic ers i n A mm an, J ordan; t he y se nd t h eir p er son nel
h e re a n d they loo k at th e thin gs t hat we d o and we co mpare ,
s o me s o rt of t act ic s, yo u migh t sa y. So I see i t as being
e x tr e m e ly ben e fic ia l.

N o w w e ha d Di r ect or Mu el ler up h er e, w e br i efed hi m o n the

p r og r a m . He’ s ve ry su pp ortive o f it a nd h a s bee n sup porti ve
o f t h e pr ogra m , p ub lic ly . Thi s is not in a ny wa y loo king to
s u pp l a n t the f unc ti on of the f ed er al g over n ment; t his is
l o ok i n g t o su p ple me nt. And ag ai n, we’ re u n ique he re becau se
o f w h a t w e’ve exp er ien ce d and we ’r e go ing t o do ev ery thing
t h at w e c an p o ssi bl y d o, as a lo ca l ag ency , to s ee th at it
d o es n ’ t h appe n ag ai n.

C H IE F B RA TTON : R ep lic at ion is t he sur est f orm o f fla ttery ,

r a th e r th an b e ing c rit ic al of th e New York Initi at ive , it’ s—
b e in g q ui te f r ank w ith y ou, I’ m je alou s of it, i n the sens e
t h at u n de rsta n din g its i mporta nc e. FL OAT i s a c on cep t to
t a ke t h e idea of ha vin g resour ce s on t he g r ound, i n c ertai n
c i ti e s , c erta i n c ou ntr ie s, tha t ar e ap t to have th e s hared
c o nc e r n s and e xpe ri enc es we ha ve .

A n d N e w Y ork, bec au se of its s he er siz e, C o mmiss io ner Kell y,

a s h e i nd icat e d e ar lie r, has t he d iscr etio n to—w it h h is ve ry
l a rg e f or ce, b eca us e o f the pa rt ic ular nee d s of th is city
a n d t h e p rior i tie s of th is cit y— as sign per s onnel . Bu t eve n
t h os e p er sonn e l r eq uir e the su pp or t of the priva te se ctor
f o un d a t io n to fun d the c ost as so ci ated wit h that .

W h at F L OA T wo u ld at tem pt to do w ou ld b e—ev e n mys el f, with a

v e ry l a rg e or g ani za tio n, I’m s tr es sed to t r y to as sig n
s e ve r a l p eopl e , e ve n f ul l-time , to the Nat i onal Op era tions
C e nt e r . Most maj or ci ti es don ’t h ave offi c es as si gne d
t h er e , be caus e th ey ju st canno t ju stif y, 3 , 000 m il es away
f r om G r ou nd Z e ro, h avi ng a ful l- ti me o ffic e r sit ti ng in
W a sh i n g to n DC , wh en th e city c ou nc ilme n sa y , I w an t a mark ed
b l ac k a nd whi t e, ru nni ng aroun d my nei ghbo r hood. We don’t
w a nt o f fi cers sit ti ng th ere do in g that .

W h at F L OA T wo u ld do wo ul d be t o ta ke a con s ortiu m, in my
c a se , o f majo r ci ti es, C hicago , Lo s An gele s , Was hi ngt on DC ,
a n d w e wo uld t oge th er, b etween u s, agr ee t o supp ly an
o f fi c e r w ho m i ght b e s ta tioned i n Lond on; w ho mi gh t b e
s t at i o n ed in N ew So uth W ales. W ho , if an e vent oc cur red,
w o ul d i mm edia t ely b e i n touch wi th all of u s, to s har e
i n fo r m a ti on t h at he or s he is ge tt ing firs t had, a t t he
s c en e .

F u el i n g t his e ffo rt is t he rea l li fe e xper i ence of th e

s e co n d su bway bom bi ngs i n Lond on . Sub sequ e nt to t he first
b o mb i n g , I se n t o ne of m y depu ty c hief s, M i ke Bu rk o
[ p ho n e t ic ]—as man y oth er depar tm en ts d id—t o Lond on . And
w i th t h e acqu i esc en ce of the B ri ti sh P olic e Serv ic es,
S u rr e a n B lair [ph on eti c] , head o f the metr o polit an po lice,
h e h a p p en ed t o be —o n a 3 0-day as si gnme nt t h ere—h ap pen ed to
b e s i t t in g, b e ing b rie fe d by t he b omb- squa d when t he secon d
s e t o f bo mbin g s o cc urr ed . He im me diat ely w as br ou ght by
t h at b o mb uni t , a s the y respon de d to t he s c ene, an d
t h ro u g h ou t th e da y was r elayin g in form atio n back t o C hicag o.

W h y C h i ca go? Ten o f A me rica’s p ol ice chie f s of th e l arges t

c i ti e s in the cou nt ry we re mee ti ng the re t o disc us s h ow do
w e d e v e lo p a c ons or tiu m to sha re i nfor mati o n. S o we had t he
r e al - t i me exp e rie nc e o f a depu ty c hief in t he LA PD , g iving
u s r e a l -t ime i nfo rm ati on —ten m aj or cit y ch i efs, mo st of us
w h o h a v e subw a y s ys tem s. So w e we re a ble t o, ve ry qu ickly —
C h ic a g o , Los A nge le s, At lanta— ge t info rmat i on ou t to our
r e sp e c t iv e ar e as an d o ur mayor s, t o gi ve t h em re al -ti me
i n fo r m a ti on. Som et hin g that t he f eder al g o vernm en t, by th e
t i me t h ey vet the i nfo rm ation an d move it d own, of ten times ,
i t ’s 2 4 -h ours lat e. W e don’t ha ve tim e fo r that t ype of
t i me d e la y.

S o a g a i n, it’ s se ek ing t o emul at e what New York, b eca use o f

i t s p r i or ity a nd se nsi ti vity t o th is i ssue , and th e
r e so u r c es ava i lab le , h av e been a bl e to do. And in dee d, I
w o ul d e mp hasi z e t ha t t he shari ng o f in form a tion am ong loca l
p o li c e , a s wa s re fe ren ce d in o ne o f th e st a temen ts ab out
s o me o f w hat w e’r e doi ng ; one of m y de puty chief s has been
w o rk i n g v ery a cti ve ly wi th Com mi ss ione r Ke l ly’s pe opl e, on
s o me j o in t ex e rci se s, so me joi nt s hari ng o f info rm ati on, a s
w e m o v e f orwa r d. T he id ea bei ng , we r ecog n ize t ha t w e’re
a l l i n th is t o get he r. A nd the i de a is —the empha si s i s mor e
o n i n c l us ion r ath er th an exclu si on .

C H IE F P IS TOLE : A nd to a nswer yo ur que stio n as t o the

i n fo r m a ti on-s h ari ng fr om state a nd loc als, we se e it as
g e ne r a l ly bei n g e xc ell en t. No bo dy wan ts t o be s it tin g on
i n fo r m a ti on t h at co uld b e used t o help pre v ent a n att ack,
f o r w h a te ver r eas on th ey haven ’t s hare d th a t. S o gen erall y,
n o i s s u es the r e, wi th ve ry few l im ited exc e ption s. A nd
t h at , g en eral l y, wh en th ere ar e ex cept ions , it d ea ls with
o p er a t i on al d e tai ls as t o the pr ot ecti ng s o urces a nd
m e th o d s , whic h is u nde rs tandab le .

W e a p p l au d th e ef fo rts o f what C om miss ione r Kell y, Br atton ,

a n d o t h er s ha v e d on e i n terms of a ssig ning offic er s
o v er s e a s. On e of t he ch alleng es i t pr esen t s for t he
a m ba s s a do r an d th e cou nt ry tea m, d eput y ch i ef ad mi ssi on, i s
t r yi n g to fin d an d und er stand wh at inf orma t ion i s bei ng
c o ll e c t ed and pas se d t o the U. S. , outs ide o f the c oun try
t e am e n vi ronm e nt. And o f cour se , reco gniz i ng th at it ’s
p r im a r i ly law enf or cem en t info rm at ion, per h aps n ot in forme d
b y t h e in tell i gen ce se rv ices i n th ose host count ri es.

A n ot h e r c hall e nge t hat h ad bee n re laye d to me fr om fo reign

s e rv i c e s is—a g ain , app la uding th ei r ef fort s —but if ev ery
m a jo r c it y de p art me nt in the U .S . deci des t o ass ig n s omebo dy
t o L o n d on , to Tel A viv , to Mex ic o City , yo u name t he place s,
i t p u t s a rea l st ra in on those a ge ncie s to provi de ti mely
i n fo r m a ti on. And t hat ’s the k ey h ere. I t hink we ge t the
i n fo r m a ti on t o th e sta te and l oc al par tner s , per ha ps not a s
t i me l y as Com m iss io ner K elly a nd C hief Bra t ton h ad
m e nt i o n ed . A n d t ha t i s the th in g [pho neti c ], we r eco gnize
w e c a n n ot be a ll th ing s to all p eo ple, at a ll ti me s.

S o w e d o the b est w e c an with wh at we have . We ha ve 71

o f fi c e s o vers e as, i n e mb assies a ro und the w orld, t ryi ng to
c o ve r t ho se i s sue s as th ey com e up so we c a n be th at focal
p o in t f or sha r ing t he in format io n; but rec o gnizi ng th at
t h er e a re tim e lin es s n ee ds tha t ha ve t o be addre ss ed, and so
w e a p p l au d th o se ef for ts .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: V ice -C hairma n Ta lent has a que st ion .

V I CE - C H AI RMAN TAL EN T: D irecto r Pi stol e, w h at ar e the

g u id e l i ne s—ho w ar e the g uideli ne s unde r wh i ch FB I ope rates
i n c o n d uc ting inv es tig at ions a nd c olle ctin g info rm ati on,
d i ff e r fr om t h ose t hat y our co ll ea gues are curre nt ly
o p er a t i ng und e r? A nd ho w does t ha t, o n a p racti ca l l evel,
a f fe c t yo ur a b ili ty to g et tha t ki nd o f in t ellig en ce?

D E PU T Y DI RECT O R P IS TOL E: Sure . T hank you , sena to r. Of

c o ur s e , r ight now w e h av e, act ua ll y, f ive d iffer en t s ets o f
g u id e l i ne s, w h ich a re be ing co mb in ed i nto o ne se t. T he
A t to r n e y Gene r al sh oul d be sig ni ng the new guide li nes for
t h e D o m es tic C oll ec tio n of Int el li genc e on Octob er 1 st . What
t h at w i ll do i s s tr eam li ne our a bi lity to c ollec t
i n fo r m a ti on a n d i nt ell ig ence a cr os s th e U. S . tha t wil l
f u rt h e r t he i n for ma tio n- sharin g wi th s tate and l oc als and
w i th t h e inte l co mm uni ty .

I t w ill r eal ly he lp us in t hr ee w ays: It wi ll pr ovide

c o ns i s t en cy b e twe en ou r crimin al c ount er i n telli ge nce and
c o un t e r -t erro r ism i nve st igatio n so eve rybo d y’s w or kin g off
t h e s a m e info r mat io n, th e same l eg al g uide l ines, s o t here’ s
n o c o n f us ion, whi ch ha s frankl y ca used us s ome i ss ues in t he
p a st w h er e th e re ha s b ee n conf us io n in wha t are th e
a u th o r i ti es. And r igh t now, u p un til the A ttorn ey Ge neral
s i gn s t he m, w e ac tu all y have g re at er a utho r ities u nde r our
t r ad i t i on al c r imi na l g ui deline s.

F o r exam p le, i n t hr ee are as , if w e wa n t to ta sk a sou rce

— a h u m a n asse t to g o i n and tr y to fin d ou t info rm ati on—we
c a n d o th at u n der o ur cr iminal g ui deli nes a nd no t our
n a ti o n a l secu r ity g uid el ines, un le ss t here is pr ed ica tion; a
k e y c o m po nent in pr ote ct ing ci vi l libe rtie s and pr ote cting
c i vi l r ig hts. If w e w an t to d o ph ysic al s u rveil la nce unde r
a n a s s e ss ment , we c an do that. On the cri m inal si de; we
c a n’ t d o that rig ht no w. We w il l be a ble t o aft er th e
A t to r n e y Gene r al si gns t hem.

A n d then we al so, i f we w an t to d o a p retex t int ervie w,

j u st t r y to—a n FB I age nt wants t o talk to s omebo dy bu t not
i d en t i f y them s elv es as a n FBI ag en t—we can ’ t do th at right
n o w, w i th out p red ic ati on in a na ti onal sec u rity
i n ve s t i ga tion ; wh er e w e can do t ha t, l et’s say, in or ganiz ed
c r im e o r a dr u g i nv est ig ation.

V I CE - C H AI R TA L ENT : Th os e are al l capa bili t ies t ha t y our t wo

c o ll e a g ue s ca n ex er cis e on the l oc al l evel ?

D E PU T Y DI RECT O R P IS TOL E: Abso lu te ly. Rig h t.

C H IE F B RA TTON : W it h s om e limi ta ti ons, Com m issio ne r K elly,

c a n’ t y ou iss u e, as I ha ve—the p ol ice comm i ssion h as
g u id e l i ne s an d ov er sig ht over a lo t of my i ntell ig enc e
o p er a t i on s. S o t ho se ar e all si mi lar to w h at th e FBI is
d o in g w it h sa f egu ar ds, t o deal w it h pa st a b uses to en sure
t h at t h ey don ’ t o cc ur ag ain.

M A LE V O IC E: T han k you , Mr. Ch ai rm an.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: C omm is sioner R oe mer.

C O MM . R OE MER: Th an k y ou , Mr. Ch ai rman . T h ank y ou fo r you r

w i se w o rd s to d ay an d y ou r serv ic e in t he p a st, a nd wh at yo u
w i ll d o t o co n tin ue to p rotect o ur cou ntry in th e fut ure.
C o mm i s s io ner K ell y, yo u talked a bo ut s ome o f you r con cerns
r e ga r d i ng , ma y be ba d g uy s gett in g acce ss t o mate ri als here
i n t h e Un ited Sta te s. A nd whe n yo u sa id i t , Chi ef Br atton
w a s n o d di ng h i s h ea d a nd so wa s De puty Dir e ctor Pi sto le.
W h en y o u talk e d a bo ut it , Chie f Br atto n, D e puty Di rec tor
P i st o l e , was a gai n nod di ng his h ea d.

H o w worr i ed ar e y ou that te rr oris ts, p otent ia l

t e rr o r i st s, m i ght a ctu al ly get a cc ess to m a teria ls he re in
t h e U n i te d St a tes , tha t they m ig ht use to p ut to ge the r som e
t y pe o f c hemi c al, b iol og ical, or i mpro vise d expl os ive
d e vi c e , t o at t ack t he Un ited S ta te s?

C O MM . K EL LY: We ha ve to be ve ry c once rned . The re ’s no

q u es t i o n abou t it . I me ntione d— an d I prep a red r em ark s—in
2 0 05 w e d id a fly -o ver w ith th e De part ment of En er gy to se e
w h er e , yo u kn o w, ra dia ti on emi tt er s ar e lo c ated in th e cit y.
W e ll , t he re w e re an aw fu l lot of t hem, let me te ll yo u tha t.
A n d m a n y of t h em in th e hospit al s and as w a s sai d, in
e d uc a t i on al i n sti tu tio ns .

Y o u k n o w, you loo k at th ese ty pe s of e stab l ishme nt s, there ’s

a tr e m e nd ous t urn ov er of perso nn el . T here is no t ade quate
s t an d a r ds —or e ven t he st andard s th at e xist , are th ey
a d eq u a t el y en f orc ed as f ar as co nt roll ing, preve nt ing ,
r a di o l o gi cal m ate ri al fr om get ti ng int o th e wron g han ds?
Y e s, w e h ave t o b e con ce rned a bo ut it, and of co ur se, you
k n ow , D ea n Al l iso n has s poken ab ou t th is m a ny, m an y t imes,
a n d s p o ke to o ur ex ecu ti ve sta ff , just a f e w yea rs ag o.

W e ’r e co n cer ne d a bo ut it; w e’ re d oing what we ca n, as a

l o ca l a ge ncy, to ad dre ss it. We g o ou t, w e do t ra ini ng; w e
h e lp h o sp ital s , t o a c er tain e xt en t, v et s o me of t hei r
e m pl o y e es whe r e w e can , pursua nt t o th e la w . Bu t the answ er
t o y o u r q uest i on, I th in k it’s s om ethi ng t h at th e nat ion h as
t o b e v er y mu c h c on cer ne d abou t. Agai n, w e ’re a b ig city,
b u t w e ’ re sti l l a l oca l entity . W e ne ed a compr eh ens ive,
a g gr e s s iv e, f e der al ap pr oach t o th is p robl e m; we d on’ t hav e
it.

C H IE F B RA TTON : I d on’ t think th er e’s no d e nying t hat ther e

a r e m a n y evil peo pl e w ho are s ee ki ng t o ba s icall y acq uire
d a ng e r o us ite m s a nd de vi ces to i nf lict gre a t har m. W e’ve
h a d, c e rt ainl y , t he fi rs t Worl d Tr ade Cent e r bom bi ng was a n
e x am p l e o f th a t; ev il pe ople w ho w ere able to co up le
e x pe r t i se wit h th e acq ui sition o f nece ssar y mate ri als , to
c r ea t e th at s i tua ti on. Timoth y Mc Vey and h is co ll eag ues i n
O k la h o m a City , yo u kno w, clear ly v ery evil peopl e who easi ly
a c qu i r e d a ph e nom en al am ount o f ma teri al t o crea te th at
e x pl o s i on .

S o i s it of co nce rn ? It ce rt ainl y is , beca us e t here is

s o m a n y p oten t ial e vil p eople wi th suc h ea s e of ac ces s to
p o te n t i al ly d a nge ro us ma terial s, t o do bad thing s.

D E PU T Y DI RECT O R P IS TOL E: Cong re ss man, thi s is o bv iou sly

w h at d r iv es a l l o f our e fforts t o make sur e we’r e get ting it
r i gh t . I thi n k S en ato r Nunn h ad t he r ight asses sm ent , in
t e rm s o f look i ng at th e probab il it y ve rsus the c on seq uence s.
I t ’s o u r asse s sme nt th at the c le ar int ent i s the re , t o use
a n yt h i n g that the y cou ld acqui re . The ris k of a c hem ical,
b i ol o g i ca l, o r cl ea rly a radio lo gi cal even t , is mu ch more
l i ke l y th an a nuc le ar ev ent. An d that ’s n o t on a con tinuu m
o f g o o d o r ba d , b ut ju st sayin g th eir acce s s to an d
d e ve l o p me nt o f a nu cle ar weapo n is muc h mo r e lim it ed in ou r
a s se s s m en t, t h an th e o th er thr ee . All tho s e cau se us
p r ob l e m s, and tha t is wh at dri ve s our effo r ts. Th ank you.
T h an k y ou , Mr . Ch ai rma n.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: T han k you, T im . Com miss i oner Al lis on.

C O MM . A LL ISON : T ha nk yo u, ver y mu ch. I j o in wi th th e

e a rl i e r c omme n ts in ad mi ring t he w ork that you a ll ar e doi ng
t o k e e p u s sa f e. I th in k Wend y’ s poin t is espec ia lly
p o ig n a n t to h e ar, a s w e come u p to the ann i versa ry of 9/11 .
B u t I ’ d b e in t ere st ed, C ommiss io ne r Ke lly, but t he n o thers
t h at h a ve com m ent s, yo u all ob vi ou sly have a lis t of thing s
t h at y o u wish the f ede ra l gove rn me nt w ould do, t ha t d on’t
s t ar t w it h mo n ey. Mon ey is pa rt o f it , bu t this —w e’r e her e
t a lk i n g a bout rad io log ic al. N ot a dequ ate— a nd I’ m jus t
q u ot i n g b ack C omm is sio ne r Kell y— no t ad equa t e sta nd ard s. S o
i f s o m e bo dy i s ke ep ing C CM-137 i n a ho spit a l or in a
f a ci l i t y, are the re fe de ral st an da rds that are a de qua te fo r
t h e p r o te ctio n of t hat ? Answe r, n o.

C O MM . K EL LY: Yes , tha t’ s righ t.

C O MM . A LL ISON : A re th ey enfor ce d by d efen s e? N o. - - .

A r e t h e e mplo y ees v ett ed in an a pp ropr iate way? S o I ’d be
v e ry i n te rest e d i n you r tellin g us a l ittl e bit of th e lis t
o f t h i n gs in r adi ol ogi ca l or c he mi cal or b i ologi ca l, or
n u cl e a r , that are n ot do ne, th at y ou w ould wish we re done.
B e ca u s e , I th i nk th ey’ re very re le vant to w hat a c omm issio n
c o ul d r ec omme n d.

C O MM . K EL LY: Wel l, I th ink th er e is a who l e ser ie s o f

t h in g s in all of th ose a reas. I t woul d pr o bably t ake a lo ng
t i me t o t alk a bou t it. But ju st p ayin g a l ot mo re at tenti on
t o t h e is sue, to No . 1 ) where th es e ma teri a ls ar e loc ated.
I me n t i on ed a g ain , we di d our Op er atio n Gr e en Cl ou d; we we re
a b le t o g et c h lor in e g as sent ov er the Int e rnet to an
a d dr e s s . And we ha ve th is on fi lm . T hey j ust d el ive red
t h es e d ru ms a n d l ef t t he m in t he s tree t. T here wa s n o
v e tt i n g o n th e ir pa rt, s o to s pe ak .

T h er e’s l ots o f a re as tha t ne ed r egul a tion, n eed

a t te n t i on . T h e i ss ue of explo si ve s as wel l , tha t are left ,
y o u k n o w, vir t ual ly un gu arded in m any site s . We ll , I can
o n ly t a lk abo u t N ew Yo rk State , be caus e we did o ur ow n
s u rv e y s t hrou g h N ew Yo rk State . W e ne ed a focus o n—t he
f e de r a l g over n men t— on CB RN-typ e ma teri al, l ocati on of it,
r e gu l a t io n as to wh o’s a llowed a cc ess to i t , reg ul ati on as
t o h o w it has to be se cu red, a nd t hen the t hings t hat you
m e nt i o n ed bef o re, t he ve tting is su e. Who i s all ow ed acces s
t o t h i s m ater i al?

T h er e i s very lit tl e a tt ention b ei ng p aid t o thi s sub ject.

A n d D e a n, you men ti one d, excep t mo ney. We l l, on a lo cal
l e ve l , mo ney, you k now , that’s t he ele phan t in a c orn er. We
a l wa y s ha ve t o ta lk ab ou t that . T hat will enabl e us,
o u rs e l v es , yo u kn ow , t o do som e of thi s re g ulati on as well .
A t l e a s t it w o uld b e f oc used i n a regu lato r y way .

B u t a s a gene r al pr opo si tion, th es e ty pes o f tox ic el ement s

a r e a l l a roun d us a nd th e dang er ou s ma teri a ls ar e
e v er y w h er e. A nd th ere ’s just a gr oss lack of re gu lat ion,
n o t j u s t on t h e f ed era l level, b ut sta te a n d loc al as well .
S o w e ’ r e not i mmu ne fr om this, a nd gov ernm e nt, i n gen eral,
h a s t o pa y a l ot mo re at tentio n to the CBR N comp on ent s.

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: I f I c ould t ak e the prer o gativ e of the

c h ai r t o ask t he la st qu estion . W e we re r e centl y in Londo n
a n d w e me t wi t h S co tla nd Yard. I was rath e r stu nn ed when
t h ey t o ld us f irs t, th at they pu t high pri o rity on ce lls
w i th i n th e co u ntr y. A nd they ha ve cou ntry - wide ju ris dicti on
f o r t e r ro rism , on t he pr emise th at it’ s di f ficul t to condu ct
t h es e c om plex ope ra tio ns with— si ng ular —so t here’ s som e typ e
o f a n e nt ity. Th e num be r of c el ls tha t th e y’ve id ent ified
a n d t h e n umbe r of t hos e cells th at are und e r an ac tiv e
s u rv e i l la nce, par ti cul ar ly for a c ount ry t h at’s ro ugh ly 20
t o 2 5 % th e po p ula ti on of the U ni te d St ates .

W h at ’s y o ur as ses sm ent of h ow wel l we under st and

e n ti t i e s that mig ht be s upplyi ng s uppo rt f o r ter ro ris t
a c ti v i t ie s in s ide y our c ities or i nsid e th e Unit ed St ates,
a n d d o we hav e th e res ou rces t o pr ovid e su r veill an ce of
t h os e e nt itie s ? Co mmi ss ioner Ke ll y?

C O MM . K EL LY: My se nse i s, qui te f rank ly, t hat t he sc ope o f

t h e p r o bl em i n th e UK is much gr ea ter than it is h ere . An d
I th i n k i f yo u ha d a c an did co nv er sati on, t hey’l l tel l you
t h at . An d th e ir re sou rc es are b ei ng s tret c hed n ow , t o
c o nd u c t t he i n ves ti gat io ns tha t th ey b elie v e are n eed ed. I
t h in k w e— in t e rms o f o ur feder al a genc ies, the F BI —I think
t h ey h a ve the res ou rce s to do th e job.

W e d o n ’ t know wha t we do n’t kn ow , in t erms of ce ll s t hat y ou

m e nt i o n ed , bu t as f ar as what we a re a ware of, i t is, righ t
n o w, n o wh ere n ear t he sc ope of w ha t ex ists in th e UK. I
t h in k i n term s of r eso ur ces, w e’ re oka y. A nd th e pro blem
r i gh t n ow , is a l es ser m agnitu de t han it i s in E ng lan d.

C H IE F B RA TTON : I w oul d echo t ha t. Al so, i ronic al ly, in

t e rm s o f visi t s t o Eng la nd, I’ ll b e ov er t h ere i n the next
c o up l e of wee k s o n a c ou nter-t er ro rism , la w enfo rc eme nt
c o nf e r e nc e, b e twe en th e Brits an d many maj o r cit y chi efs
o v er h e re . B r iti sh pe op le see m to be blit h ely u na war e, or
n o t c o n ce rned abo ut th e intens it y of w hat’ s goin g on in
t h ei r o wn cou n try .

I ’ m a l w ay s fa s cin at ed wh en I g o ov er t here , when I ge t

b r ie f e d b y th e Br it ish S ervice , in ter ms o f what t hey ’re
d e al i n g w ith, a l ot of w hich i s pu blic kno w ledge , and that
i t d o e s n ot s e em to be o f grea te r conc ern. I ec ho
C o mm i s s io ner K ell y’ s c om ments; I d on’t thi n k we’ re
e x pe r i e nc ing, in th e U ni ted St at es , an ywhe r e nea r the
i n te n s i ty of l eve ls of a ctivit y, o f ac tive cells a lon g wit h
o t he r c el ls, t hat t hey d on’t e ve n have the resou rc es to
s u rv e i l 2 4-ho u rs a day .

B u t t h e ir exp e rie nc e, I think, i s more int e nse a t the

m o me n t . At t h e s am e t im e that w e are— with our r es pec tive
o r ga n i z at ions — act iv ely e ngaged i n inve stig a tion of ce lls
h o me g r o wn , th a t w e’ re ve ry con ce rn ed w ith a nd th e— bot h of
o u r j o i nt Fus i on Ce nte r, joint c ou nter -ter r orism a nd
c o un t e r -i ntel l ige nc e e ff orts—t he i ssue is a live an d w ell
h e re i n t he U n ite d Sta te s. An d as Com miss i oner Ke lly
e x pr e s s ed his con ce rn, n ot so mu ch abo ut w h at we k now , but
w h at w e d on’t kno w, an d our co ns ta nt d esir e to k ee p
a c qu i r i ng inf o rma ti on fr om wha te ve r th e so u rce, th at we
m i gh t b e able to de vis e intell ig en ce f rom a nd th en di rect
o u r r e s ou rces tow ar d i t.

D E PU T Y DI RECT O R P IS TOL E: Sena to r, I t hink your as ses sment

o f w h a t y ou’v e he ar d i s accura te , base d on what El iza
M a nn i n g ha m-Bu l ler , the f ormer Br it ish Secu r ity S er vic e
D i re c t o r, sai d in h er pu blic s pe ec h se vera l year s ago and
n o w r e i te rate d by J ona th an Eva ns , the curr e nt di re cto r. T he
B r it i s h h ave a mu ch mo re prono un ce d an d fo c used is sue
d e al i n g w ith a ctu al op er atives t ha n we hav e .

W e h a v e , by n u mbe r man y more p eo pl e un der i nvest ig ati on, b ut

t h e v a s t majo r ity o f c ou rse, b ei ng tho se w h o may f aci litat e,
p r im a r i ly in t he ar ea of fundr ai si ng. And we ha ve ve ry fe w,
i f a n y , p eopl e we i den ti fy as op er ativ es t h at ar e rea dy to
b e a b o mb thr o wer , for e xample , or com mit a n att ac k. They
h a ve a n a ssim i lat io n i ss ue wit h so me o f th e ir in di vid uals
t h at w e h ave, to a muc h smalle r de gree . T h ey ha ve tr avel,
m u ch l e ss tra v el re str ic tions, m uc h fe wer t ravel
r e st r i c ti ons, esp ec ial ly to Pa ki st an.

W i th s o m any d ual c iti ze ns and s ec ond, thi r d-gen er ati on

P a ki s t a ni s wh o ma y go in to the t ri bal area for m on ths , be
t r ai n e d a nd t h en co me ba ck, an d th en t hey’ r e jus t an E-
t i ck e t aw ay f r om th e U ni ted St at es . S o th a t’s w ha t g ives us
c o nc e r n , that the re ar e people w ho are the r e—and w e w ork
v e ry c l os ely w ith b oth t he Sec ur it y Se rvic e and th e S ecret
I n te l l i ge nt s e rvi ce , a nd of co ur se , th e ME T , thr ou gh
S c ot l a n d Yard — to id ent if y thos e in divi dual s and to ta ke wh at
a c ti o n we can to pr eve nt them fr om com mitt i ng at ta cks here .

C H AI R M A N GRAH A M: G ent le men, t ha nk you ver y much f or

c o nc l u d in g wh a t h as be en a ver y in form ativ e sess io n f or us .
A s s o m an y of my co lle ag ues ha ve a lrea dy s a id, w e are in
y o ur d e bt and gre at ly ad miring o f the lead e rship t hat each
o f y o u is pro v idi ng to t he saf et y of o ur p e ople.

W h en w e d ecid e d t o hav e this p ub li c he arin g , we fa ced a

d i le m m a . We f elt t hat i t was im po rtan t fo r the Am eri can
p e op l e to kno w wh at th e extent o f the thre a t of th e u se of
w e ap o n s o f ma s s d es tru ct ion by t er rori sts, or ro gu e s tates ,
a g ai n s t u s wa s , w it hou t, to us e th e te rm, s carin g the hell
o u t o f ev eryb o dy. And w ithout l ea ving wit h some s ens e of
h o pe t h at whi l e t he th re at is re al and sig n ifica nt , i t’s n ot
i n su r m o un tabl e . An d y ou have co nt ribu ted b oth t o our
u n de r s t an ding and t o o ur sense o f hope .

O n O c t o be r 1 st , we’re going to have our second public hearing,

which will focus primarily on the steps that can and are being
taken to mitigate that threat. And many of the comments and
insights that you provide us will be valuable in that hearing as
well. So I thank you very much. The meeting is adjourned. We are
going to have lunch for the commissioners and it’s going to be a
working lunch. So we’re not over yet. Thank you very much.
[ E ND T A PE 1]