This is the email correspondence between Sam Shamoun and myself from the point w here we discussed having

a live chat. I am publishing these in response to Sam s p ublic accusation that I am a liar, and that I ran away from the debate and false ly accused him of avoiding me. Edward, don't think you can come here with your lies and get away with them. Do I need to repost all the emails and questions which I sent you in order to expose you as being no better than the Musim apologistsyou decry? To correct your boldface lie, I didn't simply invite you to debate whether Genes is is compatible with modern scientific theories. I also challenged you, and wil l again repeat my challenge, to come on our show and defend your beliefs as an a theist so I can expose just how irrational and inconsistent you truly are. But, alas, you chose rather to run and pretend that I have been trying to avoid you, since you know better. http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/muhammads-flat-earth.html ================== Tr to sam May 2 Hi Sam We should have had our chat this weekend, I had 4 days off :) Can you believe after making my video Muslims are telling me that the links from the Quran to genesis are in my biased mind? Well of course you can believe it, but can you believe it? :)

sam shamoun to me May 2 Sure can believe it. :-) I was away doing the Jesus or Muhammad shows: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/20 11/04/sam-and-david-on-jesus-or-muhammad-this.html David is the former atheist who debated Loftus: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/ 2010/03/david-wood-vs-john-w-loftus-does-god.html I will give u advance notice when we do the shows next month so you can call in and chat.

Tr to sam May 2 I'll take a look tomorrow. I'd imagine a phone call on a show would be short and challenging, I think a lon g chat would be much more fun don't you? :)

sam shamoun to me May 2 Written chats are only more beneficial if you don't obfuscate and avoid answerin

g questions, much like estions regarding your ou won't have a chance ou for answers. And we hort.

you did in our last email when I asked you a series of qu criticism of biblical ethics. However, when you call in y to avoid answering them since I will make sure to press y can make it a long show where you don't need to make it s

So I think that would be more fruitful for people, don't you?

sam shamoun to me May 2 Just saw your video on the Big Bang and your exegesis of Genesis 1 is laughable. You definitely need to call on the show since I won't let you get away with you r sloppy and feeble (should I say pathetic) attempt of connecting between Genesi s and the Quran. You better brush up on some commentaries by Old Earth creationi sts concerning the meaning of Genesis 1 before you come on the show. Your confidence (or should I say your arrogance) in speaking about Biblical matt ers is starting to get me upset and that isn't good for you. Anyway, I am off to refuting more Muslims. So until we "chat" on the show keep u p your work of discussing the Quran, but do make sure to stay away from Biblical exegesis since you are an amateur in that area.

Tr to sam May 2 I was suggesting a video chat like I did with my muzzy friends, not a boring wri tten one :) I find face to face chats much more interpersonal and enjoyable. It's not about challenge for me, I don't see it as X won and Y lost. For me it's about the enjo yment of the conversation, I don't really enjoy faceless conversations - I have an odd brain that struggles to follow voice with a lack of visual cues, it takes too much brain power for me and I misunderstand a lot more. It's up to you :) Tr to sam May 2 I can't see why you would be "upset" I certainly don't get upset by people misun derstanding evolution. You really should try to separate your emotions from your stance. Like me, I frankly don't give a damn what's right, I only care that if I am wrong I discover it ASAP. Regarding genesis, I simply look at the words and take them at face value. I exp ect god to be straight up front with me and tell it how it is, I also expect phi losophers of the past to guess at stuff and get it wrong. Please do feel free to explain why my video is wrong. It won't change my argumen t against the Quran though, because I think mo just regurgitated a literal inter pretation.

sam shamoun to me May 2

Well, I don't do video chats for now since I am techincal illiterate and will ne ed someone to help me which will take some time. However, if you really want to "chat" I can arrange for it on the show so we can see how your arguments against God's existence and your really bad exegesis of genesis stands up to cross exam ination. Do yourself a favor and brush up on the arguments of Old Earth creationists befo re you chime in on Genesis. You need to hear more than one side before you proce ed to criticize things based on your lack of knowledge and understanding. Anyway, will keep you up to date concerning the next time we do the shows.

sam shamoun to me May 2 My reason for getting upset is because of the impression you give that you reall y know what you are talking about when it comes to Genesis, when you really don' t. In this regard, you are imitating Muslims who speak on issues that they have no right to speak about and I expect better from you in light of your own standa rds. A surface level reading of words which you think you have understood is not a go od enough excuse. You need to look at the original languages of the texts and se e how such words have and can be understood within their immediate and over all contexts. Moreover, instead of telling me to expose your errors, please do feel free to sp end some money and time perusing books and articles by old earth creationists. I sent you one link for starters. Here is another: http://www.jashow.org/Articles /archives-sc.htm Also make sure to check this out as well: http://www.jashow.org/coming-to-the-jo hn-ankerberg-show/beginning-sunday-february-27does-the-new-scientific-evidence-a bout-the-origin-of-lifeput-an-end-to-darwinian-evolution/ Anyway, this will be my last email for now. Talk to you soon.

Tr to sam May 3 Video chat is simple assuming you have a web cam and mic already? Do you, and do you have skype installed? Tr to sam May 3 That's still not a reason to get emotional. I think that being emotional about a n issue tends to be detrimental as it can lead one to bias. The Rationalizer to sam May 3 Okay, read that one. I must admit that it reeks of the same kind of logic I hear from Muslims when they explain how their religion isn't incorrect, and how the true meaning of the text is really somewhat different from that you get from jus t reading it. It seems to take the same "You cannot prove it is wrong" approach of an Islamic

apologist, rather than the "Look it's clearly right" approach - this is evident by the fact that 6 day creationists exist. I'll get to the others as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for the link, it was a n interesting read!

The Rationalizer to sam May 5 Hi Sam I watched a few of your JesusOrMuhammad shows yesterday. The phone-in seems to b e a high-energy confrontational episode, which isn't the kind of thing I had in mind. I was thinking of a casual civilised discussion between two people who ha ve two very different mental models of reality, which is why I proposed a privat e chat instead.

sam shamoun to me May 5 Tell you what. There is an upcoming marathon scheduled for June which will have the who's who of apologists refuting Islam, including James White, Anthony Roger s and others who specialize in decimating atheist objections as well. I can cont act ABN and have them schedule a show or shows between you and one of us where i t will be lively and civil since they wouldn't mind doing it. They already did s hows on exposing the irrationality of atheism with David Wood and Matt Slick whi ch you can find in their archives. Let me know if you are interested.

The Rationalizer to sam May 5 I've already explained my adversity to the idea of a phone call, one of which be ing the cost of a long duration long-distance phone call :) Would we be able to do it via video-skype?

The Rationalizer to sam May 5 Just to be clear "Would we be able to do it via video-skype?" "It" being the talk on the show. I don't mind it being on a show, although I'd prefer something neutral such as us both being at home.

sam shamoun to me May 5 No one said you had to use the phone. If you have seen the show you see that we also use skype which won't cost you a dime. So video-skype should be fine. The Rationalizer to sam May 5 Hi Sam

I've seen bits of a few shows, didn't see anything about communication methods. If I will be visible on the show then that's acceptable, because when explainin g things I often depend very much on gestures to clarify meaning. I'll be happy for you to convince me that Genesis is correct, there is a god, an d that the Bible is the word of god. Do you know the exact date and time yet?

sam shamoun to me May 5 In other words, instead of relying on logic t convince your audience, you choose to try to sway people by appealing to their emotions through the use of facial and hand gestures in order. Hey, at least your honest. I also notice how you are already trying to avoid having to defend your irration al materialistic, atheistic worldview. Sorry, but if we are going to do this you are going to also be forced to defend your worldview and explain your inconsist ent and dishonest use of logic, reason, induction, morality etc. when you cannot account for such concepts in your naturalistic, materialistic belief system. So we are all going to be excited and happy to see how you not only try to refut e the facts for the existence God of the Bible, the resurrection of Jesus Christ , and the exegesis of Genesis, but also try to prove why your belief system is t rue. Let me know if you accept since I will try to get this set up for sometime in Ju ne.

The Rationalizer to sam May 5 >In other words, instead of relying on logic t convince your audience, you choos e to try to sway people by appealing to their emotions through the use of facial and hand gestures in order. If you have seen my video with the Muslim guys I use visual gestures to explain stuff. I also think its only fair that both parties experience as much of an eq ual standing as possible, if identifying with a human face is a factor then inde ed it should be equal. I see no issue with demanding an equal footing :) >but if we are going to do this you are going to also be forced to defend your w orldview I am happy to answer any questions you like, but I was under the impression that you were going to prove to me that Genesis is scientifically accurate? Is that correct or not? >So we are all going to be excited and happy to see how you not only try to refu te the facts for the existence God of the Bible, the resurrection of Jesus Chris t, and the exegesis of Genesis, but also try to prove why your belief system is true. Sure, give me all the facts you have, I like knowledge. You are in a good posit

ion that I am not very familiar with the Bible, so I am practically a blank page waiting to be filled up. I do however like to ask questions about what I am to ld. I am also happy to try to rationalise any belief I currently hold to be tru e. I'll be able to see you on skye video too though won't I? As I explained I depe nd on being able to see people I talk to as it makes me feel uncomfortable if I cannot.

sam shamoun to me May 5 I guess you didn't read my email carefully. I clearly stated that not only will you have to refute the clear evidence for existence of God, the resurrection of Jesus, AND THE EXEGESIS GENESIS 1, you are going to be forced to defend your inc onsistent, irrational worldview. Which part of the first part where I mention th e exegesis of Genesis 1 wasn't clear to you? People will be able to see you on skype so will be able to try and sway them by appeal to their emotions. You are going to need it. So can I arrange this now since there are a couple of gentlemen who will be exci ted to know that an atheist thinks he can refute Christianity and still remain c onsistent with their naturalistic, materialistic atheistic worldview.

The Rationalizer to sam May 5 I said that the point of the conversation was originally proposed in order to di scuss Genesis. You have since added the additional criteria and I replied that I am happy to discuss anything you wish. I also made no such claim about being able to refute Christianity, I said I know little of Christianity and that I am happy to discuss it with you so that you m ay present me with the facts. >People will be able to see you on skype so will be able to try and sway them by appeal to their emotions I have explained this three times now so I opposite of what I say is true. You guys ith myself being given the same privilege. able to see the person I am talking to on don't know why you keep insisting the will be on screen, I see no problem w However my question was, will *I* be skype?

The Rationalizer to sam May 12 Hi Sam So, when is the event, what skype ID do I need to call, what time should I call, and how long do I have to talk?

The Rationalizer to sam May 25 Hi Sam

Do you have a show date yet?

The Rationalizer to sam Jun 14 Are you going to invite me onto this show? And which of these is your correct em ail address? ================== After this correspondence went dead I waited for a while (perhaps a month) and p osted on his youtube channel asking if we are going to have our chat or not. He deleted my post.