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Sam Aresheh

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Inorganic
Cameron J
10/5/2011 1:15 PM

Activity
Marselle Sloane

is added comment OCCUPY ORANGE...

Marselle Sloane

is added comment OCCUPY ORANGE...

Marselle Sloane

created discussion Face to Face at...

Tom Childress

is added comment OCCUPY ORANGE...

Dean Inada

is added comment OCCUPY ORANGE...

SUMMARY: Focus our efforts on consciousness raising for a general assembly. Dissolve committees and delegations until a wider range of folk have the opportunity to get involved. Recognize our own privileges and biases in the ability to organize. Listen to the people, the 99%. ______________________________________ So I just wanted to write up a little something to think about for this occupation. I was part of the San Francisco contingent on the 17th when everything happened, and in all honesty I think we are all doing it wrong. I think it's important to organize and have some sort of structure so that folks can get stuff done. However, if I have learned anything in my experience as a student organizer, it is that you have to give people space to get involved with the movement on all levels. Most often, we get carried away with our passions and our visions for a revolution / protest that it gets in the way of letting others work along side us. We have to recognize that there is a certain level of privilege in being able to devote so much time to the movement (you have the time off, the money to support yourself while working on other things, access to the internet, access to an education, etc). Although admirable, this sets up a space where those with privilege actually start to dictate what the movement looks like and thus, not actually representing the 99%. Quickly scanning over the people who are in these Occupy groups, a vast majority of them are white, mostly male, middle class folk who just recently lost their jobs or are finally feeling the effects of structural, oppressive systems. But let's be real, people of color, queer and trans folk, and people with disabilities have always known the system we're currently in was fucked up because we were the people who took the cuts first, got policed and caged first, etc. Where are the people of color, the queer and trans people, and people with disabilities within our organizing efforts? They are part of the 99% yeah? My point is not to start an ideological battle, but to realize that when we start to hyper-structure our activist efforts, we end up molding / constructing the frame of the movement. There is a reason why people of color, trans and queer folk, and people with disabilities aren't the most visible activists, they have much more to put on the line than white folk do. As such, their voices are generally not heard, not taken seriously, or their needs aren't met in practice (on paper they might criminalize racial profiling but in practice, we know that isn't the case for example). I think an example might prove to be useful in understanding my point. Some of my friends went to the Occupy LA protest this last weekend, and had an extremely bad experience there. Nobody approached them to say hello. Someone was wearing a badge that said "Demands committee" who was busily running around, ignoring anyone without a badge or a committee responsibility. There was this disconnect between "those who organized" or the "activists" and those who were participating in the protest. This style very much mirrors the tactics of the 60s and 70s and the anti-war movements that occurred in that time. This divide between activists and those who participate in the occupation is inevitably going to make this movement fail. It contradicts the mantra of the movement. It splits us in to the 1%, the activists, and the rest. In San Francisco, the only organizing that was done prior to the actual occupation date was raising awareness for a general assembly. Once the general assembly was organized and advertised, the folk at the assembly started to make connections. Build friendship. Build some sort of community. Because, let's face it, I'm sure as hell not going to put my body on the line for any of ya'll because I don't have a connection or a feeling of solidarity with any of you yet. You have to build that. Second, in addition to creating connections and building those relationships, people were teaching each other things. They were holding classes, teach-ins, and the like to start constructive conversations about their own experiences, directions they see the movement going, and the like. Everyone had the voice heard and valued. Our goal is to create an alternative space that can foster a type of politics. If we start making all of these decisions prior to the consensus of the people we seek to represent (the 99%), we will fail. Also, in my opinion, seeking the approval of the people we are trying to challenge by obeying the law, getting permits, and the like doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the long term. The police and the government exist currently to protect to profits and the privileges of the powerful, abiding by their rules means letting the bankers get off easily. The beauty of this occupy wall street movement is that it is an organizational structure that is brand new. Nobody knew how to respond to occupy wall street in new york, and nobody knew what to expect. Let's embrace that. If we go back to our old tactics, tactics that the police and the state already know how to deal with effectively, we will fail.

Those subscribed to discussion:

Cate Gary Jan Meslin Hali Mech Ista Bill (Dr.) Honigman Shelby McMillen Linda Sw artz Mitch Star Rick Spicer Dean Inada

Sheryll Alexander Shaw n Roselius Dean Inada

Nicholas Hay

Chris Roberts Eve Mallett

Melinda Wendrick Keith Cousins Thomas Monroe Diane Murphy Sloan Ryan Johnson Wendy Tarr

Jennifer Prescott Adolpho n John Varga Kevin Nelson Jia E

Taylor Freeman Melanie Pollak

Evee hurtado Melissa Jones

Jonathan Barba Jeff Froehl Alec Marken

Tom Childress

Scott Wendrick

Dylan Thompson Ginger Kuroishi

Tommy Airey

Tony Mangina Dean Bottino

Sam Aresheh Daniel Uribe

Diane Jenkins

Jeff Ford

Debbie West

Arezo Tehranirad

Brian McNelis

Wendy Tarr

Daniel Uribe

Debbie West

Arezo Tehranirad Dylan Holly Lisa Leming Erica Stelcik

Brian McNelis Hallie Kelsey Renee Balenti Corbin Scott Sulaiman Syed Kathryn Mudgw ay Hai Vo

Occupy Orange County (D'Marie) Elizabeth Fullerton Marselle Sloane Carole Levers Brooke Flores Karl Green

Fabian Buitrago Kelly Morgan Ron Varasteh Charles Cha

Ron Anger

Andre Mahmoudian

Lovell Willmore

Comments Cameron J

1:18 PM Yesterday

note: I think the work that we are doing now is great. but the question I'm posing is, simply, what if people don't want to march? What if the collective doesn't want to occupy Irvine? The types of actions that we take should reflect what the collective wants. Organizing should be restricted to consciousness raising about the general assembly, and from there we listen to the 99%.
Reply

Occupy Orange County (D'Marie)

Organizer

1:25 PM Yesterday

Please see the new post OCCUPY ORANGE COUNTY . . . IS ORGANIZED!!!

Reply

Cameron J
Reply

1:39 PM Yesterday

you missed the point. organized by whom? clearly not the 99%.

Marselle Sloane

1:40 PM Yesterday

I agree Joe. I'm concerned that getting permits and working with the powers that be will be their way to control us and prevent any real civil disobedience. I'm also concerned with the lack of diversity in Irvine and, according to a friend of mine who lived in Fountain Valley when Irvine was "designed" in the early 70s says, it was designed to thwart civil disobedience. I don't want to get arrested but I also don't want our message controlled by the authorities. I for one think Santa Ana is the place to be and don't see why we are expending a week of energy in Irvine when we would be better served to occupy Santa Ana.
Reply

Marselle Sloane
Reply

1:46 PM Yesterday

Once again IRVINE wins! We'll be occupying generica.

Sam Aresheh

1:49 PM Yesterday

I agree with Marselle and Joe. Yesterday we discussed this with I believe 5 people on the phone and we took a vote and 4/5 voted for Irvine. I was the only one that voted for the "big demonstration" to be at the Ronald Reagan Federal Building in Santa Ana. However, there wasn't nearly as many people in the discussion as there is now. The points Marselle has brought up are worth taking into consideration and I still don't believe that Irvine for the big demonstration should be set in stone. I didn't know there was this many voices to be heard in setting up Occupy OC, it's amazing. I think the Ronald Reagan Federal Building is the best location for the protest and has staged multiple protests in the passed that gained a lot of attention. We need to tell the lawmakers and politicians to stop listening to the corporations and start listening to the 99%, it is the same message no matter where it is held. Also, it is safe to say that 80% - 90% of Orange County doesn't know where the "Financial District" in Irvine is, and there is no way to look it up either, as we learned yesterday there is people that have lived their whole lives in Irvine and don't know of a few streets as the designated "Financial District." The Ronald Reagan Federal Building is easy to look up if you don't know where it is already.
Reply Edit | Delete

Nicholas Hay

2:07 PM Yesterday

okay, FIVE PEOPLE VOTING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. logistics people, you are KIDDING yourselves if you think that's okay. i am behind this movement 110%, but this kind of decision-making is EXACTLY the same as the politicians and business fat-cats ignoring you. in NY committees aren't making decisions for everyone. they're making propositions that everyone turns around and votes for. FIVE PEOPLE CANNOT ARTICULATE THE INTERESTS OF THE 500 WHO'VE EXPRESSED INTEREST. PERIOD.
Reply

profile removed
by the gernericans?

1:49 PM Yesterday

Reply

Reply

Occupy Orange County (D'Marie)

Organizer

1:53 PM Yesterday

Be assured the Logistics Committee looked at all the pros and cons. We have people on the committee that have protested in Irvine, have good connection with the city leaders...and once again... the decision is a AND solution not a either or....it is inclusive and serves both Irvine and Santa Ana. We are working on moving it forward...we are not talking about it any longer. Please join your committees and work within your committees. Thank you.
Reply

Nicholas Hay

2:09 PM Yesterday

how do you know you weighed all the pros and cons? did you ask everyone? no. and just because you signed up for "logistics" before making it known what "logistics" would do doesn't mean you're capable of making that kind of decisions. i won't risk camping out in the Irvine gestapo just because you think you're wise enough to consider "ALL" the pros and cons on everyone else's behalf.
Reply

Occupy Orange County (D'Marie)

Organizer

1:54 PM Yesterday

@ Cameron...are you the person behind occupy Disneyland?

Reply

profile removed

1:55 PM Yesterday

hey i live in irvine...:-( do you think I'm a generican? most houses in the u.s. look crappy anyway. we have too much concrete here.
Reply

Coyote Marie

1:56 PM Yesterday

Joe, I really appreciate your thoughts and am heartened to read them just as I signed up and am wondering about diverse voices having access to organization. I also think Sloane raises really good points about Irvine vs Santa Ana as a focus, and it strikes me that Irvine may be the home base of the 1% here but it is also invisible and designed to keep oppression invisible. Whereas Santa Ana is not only more visible but more accessible to many, many allies, to further growing organizational - and multilingual - roots
Reply

Occupy Orange County (D'Marie)

Organizer

2:00 PM Yesterday

Please read OCCUPY ORANGE COUNTY . . . IS ORGANIZED. Thank you.

Reply

Cameron J

2:01 PM Yesterday

my point is that we should focus our efforts on organizing a general assembly somewhere, and then proceeding from there. 5 people deciding on a plan of action (irvine vs. santa ana) is NOT a consensus based method of organizing. Your comments "Occupy Orange County" are exactly what I'm critiquing. Logistics and delegations are useful, up to an extent, but we still don't have the voices of the people. That's what the general assembly is for. Set a date, a time, and a location for the general assembly. And then we'll see the spirit of democracy in action. De-hierarchicalize shit. seriously.
Reply

profile removed

2:03 PM Yesterday

Yes, we should not have any meetings until we start the occupation...no decisions until we are all together. Have the occupation in Santa ana, where there are people getting kicked out of their homes so white gentrification can move in. Fliers in Spanish? Yes, it seems as if it's the same old crowd, in a way. Are we truly willing to be homeless like the peeps in LA? Maybe if you're young and free...lol...It is overwhelming. It's alot of work. Sat. was a weird day but I hear it's better now. How many people are actually doing to stay at the park in Irvine? Are the rest of us going to just go home and rest/eat/shower? There's a bit of a disconnect...it seems...without knowing all the details....Will the youth who are willing to camp be there? Will the chicano activists fighting for the rights of their community, will they be there? Will Ron Paul people there or excluded? Who will be excluded or made to feel unwelcome? Oathkeepers and Libertarians?

If our roots aren't proper the plant will be unhealthy. I want to grow democracy! (not the democratic party)
Reply

Jennifer Patalsky
Reply

2:05 PM Yesterday

General Assembly: has my vote!

Sam Aresheh

2:08 PM Yesterday

I think this needs to be re-addressed I was apart of the "logistics committee" and that consisted of 5 people in the conversation yesterday, there is now over 20 people on the TeamLab. The "logistics committee" was put together by one person that happen to get the contact info that was coming in off Facebook, I have no more qualifications then anybody else in these discussions and I think their voice and their points should be heard and taken into consideration for everyone to come to one set location that MOST agree on. Who is to say who is on the logistics committee or not? No offense, but I think we should ALL get an equal say in occupying Orange County and I'm on this "committee" myself (probably not anymore). The students at Cal State University Fullerton are VERY passionate about occupying Santa Ana rather then Irvine and have brought up some of the same points Cameron and Marselle have brought to light. Cameron brings up VERY strong points and so does Marselle and they need to be addressed. We can't respond to them by saying "the 'logistics committee' looked at all the pros and cons. We have people on the committee that have protested in Irvine, have good connection with the city leaders...and once again... the decision is a AND solution not a either or....it is inclusive and serves both Irvine and Santa Ana." Why isn't Cameron or Marselle apart of this "committee?" Just because they didn't contact occupyorangecounty@yahoo.com soon enough for the conference call? Why is there a committee anyway? The people you had that "protested there" was 1 person as far as I know.

Reply

Edit | Delete

Cameron J
Reply

2:11 PM Yesterday

glad people have the same sentiments as I.

Dylan Thompson

2:17 PM Yesterday

I agree that large decisions that shape the entire OC movment should be made in the GA. I believe there is still work/research/outreach to be done by the people organized in this group already, but major choices shouldn't be made so soon by so few.
Reply

Marselle Sloane

3:07 PM Yesterday

@Sam. I am on the "committee" however, I missed the conference call last night. (Thought it was tonight) . From the first conference call it seemed to me that "occupy Irvine" was already decided....more or less. I only have so much energy and there is a lot to do between now and October 22 for "Occupy Santa Ana". I've spoken to Tom Childress, the civic liaison for "Occupy Santa Ana" regarding logistics. Who else is focused on Santa Ana?
Reply

Sam Aresheh

3:19 PM Yesterday

I am completely focused on Santa Ana and it seemed to be completely concrete that it was Santa Ana as soon as I got on the conference yesterday. My pros of Santa Ana I felt like were way over-looked and it wasn't open for discussion. Santa Ana is the 4th largest densely populated city in the ENTIRE United States, I'm focused on Santa Ana as I see no viable "financial district" in Irvine and we need to tell the Government to stop answering to Wall Street and start listening to the 99%.
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