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Comentarios: victor_m@cimat.mx
Santa Sangre es, en cierta forma, la consagración de Alejandro
Jodorowsky (Chile, 1929) en el terreno fílmico. Esta consagración no
está relacionada con la fama, el reconocimiento o el culto del
director, algo ya ganado con anterioridad por Jodorowsky con películas
como Fando y Lis (y toda la controversia generada en su estreno), El
Topo (confesamente admirada por John Lennon) o La Montaña Sagrada, por
mencionar las más conocidas. La consagración que se menciona está
relacionada más bien por el hecho de abordar temas de mayor
complejidad y profundidad (trascendencia, como gusta decir su
director), sin renunciar, por supuesto, a la imaginería visual,
barroquismo, surrealismo o extravagancias a las que nos tiene
acostumbrados.
Many film-makers have profited from the wild and vivid imagination of
Alejandro Jodorowsky, but Jodorowsky himself is not one of them. He
has made three classic cult movies - El Topo, The Holy Mountain and
Santa Sangre - and he has had a significant influence on popular
culture over the past 35 years, from Mexican cinema to the making of
Alien, the imagery of Marilyn Manson and even the development of mime.
But he hasn't made a penny out of it.
Separating truth from fiction, or even the past from the present, has
always been a problem with a figure like Jodorowsky. Today - silver-
haired, smartly dressed and surrounded by cats in his book-lined Paris
apartment - he looks every bit the senior artist. However, his
contempt for linear thought is undiminished.
"Listen," he says. "I can make this interview like a normal person. I
am not a normal person. I am living in a normal body, but my mind is
not normal. When you speak about my past, I have no past. You see the
person I am now - I am 74. My wife is 37 years younger than me. I
don't feel the difference. My consciousness is without limits more
than when I was 40 or 50. I don't regret any past. I am not there. I
am not sorry not to make pictures, because I know one day I will do
it. I intend to live 150 years. I am only in the middle of my life. So
when you say what do you think about the past? Nothing! It's done!"
The film was seen by John Lennon, who advised Apple manager Allen
Klein to buy the rights to it, and introduced the first screening of
it in New York. El Topo became a permanent fixture of late-night
hippie cinema for the rest of the decade and a favourite of the
emerging New Hollywood generation, particularly the likes of Dennis
Hopper and Jack Nicholson. Hopper's ill-fated follow-up to Easy Rider,
The Last Movie, was inspired by Jodorowsky's spontaneous, free-ranging
methods, as well as his mystical and anthropological concerns. At one
stage, Hopper invited Jodorowsky to his studio in Taos, New Mexico to
help him finish the movie.
"When I see the rushes - not very clear, but some beautiful scenes,"
Jodorowsky remembers. "He had a lot of material and six editing
machines, but he could not do it. In one or two days I cut it myself,
but I think Dennis didn't want another guy making his movie, so he
rejected it and made his own. It was not so good. Later I asked him to
be in Santa Sangre, and he said no, just like that."
A few years later, Hollywood was working on its own version of Dune,
with David Lynch directing. Meanwhile, Ridley Scott made Alien with
half the crew Jodorowsky had assembled, including Giger as creature
designer and O'Bannon as writer. Jodorowsky was left behind. His one
triumphant return was Santa Sangre, made in 1990: a customarily
freakish but more accessible circus horror with echoes of Tod Browning
and Hitchcock's Psycho. There were two more failed projects: an Indian
elephant film, Tusk, and an unreleased film, The Rainbow Thief,
starring Peter O'Toole ("I hated him; he was the worst person I ever
met in my life").
Nor does he have any bitterness, he says, towards those who have made
money from his ideas. "It's not important. What's important is to give
your ideas to the world if you love the world. My pictures are a gift.
I am an honest artist.
"For me, the goal of art is to heal. I see avant-garde art now - it is
all destructive. But I think to be avant-garde, you need to be a
saint. That's why I push my art into therapy. I help people. In the
last six months, three young people who were going to commit suicide
have told me I saved their lives. That is better than making films."
(arriba)
I Am Not Making Hot Dogs
An Interview wit Alejandro Jodorowsky
(director El Topo, Holy Mountain, Santa Sangre)
Do you think that ideas become more prominent when, let's say, there's
a collective of people, or do you think that ideas are easier to come
to when you're alone?
You can prove to me. Ask me something, I can invite something for you
and it is immediately here.
How important do you think reality is in your life? Like the concrete
of reality?
I read something about when you were getting ready to shoot "El Topo",
you searched out the landscapes that related to the dreams of the
earth--
I want to say, "El Topo" I made 30 years ago. I was not me--he's a
person who died. Now I die, I was reborn. I'm not me, but I respect
the person who make "El Topo". But he was searching. He have not, he
have not find himself, he make the picture in order to find himself.
And when I was in that time there, I went with a jeep, with a
photographer, in the north of Mexico, in some state of dreams, like a
dream, no? And finding places, like dreams. Because in the Mexican
industry, they shot the pictures all the time in the same space, in
the same landscape--very easy for them. I have to find new landscape,
new places. I did that, but in a state of dreams. I find that, no?
When you come with the camera, always I shoot reality. In Mexico I
shoot in the street, in the middle of thieves, of criminals. I make
"Santa Sangre", and I was in the worst part of Mexico, very dangerous.
And then we speak with the chief of thieves, and he became the person
we pay to him, he became the person who sees the way, who makes sure
nothing happens.
Protection--
But it was very dangerous, very dangerous. But when you come with your
picture to reality, reality, it starts to be a dream. Nothing is any
more real with a camera. You can invent reality when is a commercial
picture, or you give a miracle to reality when it is an artistic
picture. Everything is better, is beautiful. Eh? And then when I
direct the picture is not myself. I am completely different. When I
make "Santa Sangre", always like that I sleep for hours, for days. I
don't speak with anybody. I don't want to see friends. In reality I
don't sleep with my woman, don't make love, only dedicate to the
picture, not to speak with anybody only when I am shooting, in a state
of ferocity. Criminal ferocity. In order to do that, you know, because
in movies, the only person they say have any real idea, they have an
anus. You know what is anus? Asshole. [Makes image with hand.] They
have an idea, they have an asshole. They have an asshole, and this is
his idea. And then you need to say "Shut up! I don't want ideas here,
stop the speak!" Huh? "Is me that is shooting. Close your mouth!"
Everyone have an idea: actor have an idea, the photographer have an
idea, the technician have idea...everybody want to collaborate! But
the real picture is like a poem. You need to do your picture. That I
am doing. I am like a criminal, fighting all the person, in order to
do whatever I want. The producer comes...is awful.
Forestter: Who are you now? You say you are a different person for "El
Topo", a different person for "Holy Mountain", how?
Yes! Yes I make films in order to, as an artist makes a film, in order
to give myself, to express, to find something, no? I don't like my
pictures. When I see my pictures I am ashamed. I will never do that, I
don't like.
But did they help you to--
But I don't like because I see all things different. Oh, how I could
do, why I didn't do THAT, why I did THAT, no?
But would you say that they served their purpose? Did you find within
it what you were looking for?
Oh yes yes yes yes yes. A lot. Changed my life, every one of my
pictures changed my life. Even the worst, "Tusk". I make in India,
with a crook. The producer was a crook. He said, You'll have an
artificial elephant as King Kong. He gives me a normal elephant. I
have nothing. It was terrible. But I learned a lot because I start to
work with elephants. Elephants could be our masters. Animals are our
masters. All the totems, the animal totems have a knowledge in them. I
learn a lot in my life this way. Not the picture but the contact with
the elephants change my life. And how...I have time? I will tell an
anecdote? I can? You know, the elephant live 100 years, 90 years. It
have only three persons, all the life he work with them. One who makes
the food, another who wash because the animals they like the water,
and then they're happy, and the number three, the master who is the
karnak, the three. And they work all his life with the elephant. And
when I come there, I see a little man who had a hole here [motioning
to the shin of his leg], and he have not medicine, no nothing. And in
India, he was not a human being. He was dying. And then I say to the
officer, "I want to do something for him." And he say, "Don't do
nothing, because if he die, they will say you killed him." And then I
say, "Let me do something, without permission." And then I went to him
but I don't have nothing only I have a tonic for the hair. And I put
the tonic with alcohol, and creme for hemorrhoids, I put the creme for
hemorrhoids (on his leg) and I pray, in Spanish [says prayer]. And
after a week, he was saved. I saved the guy with that. And then I
start to work with elephants, do everything with elephants. I push the
elephants. I ride the elephants. A lot of things between the 12
elephants, running. And then one day an officer came, and speak very
bad to the karnak, and the elephant did like this with his trunk
[swinging motion], and man went out four meters, with jaw broken. And
then how terrible was an elephant, I did not realize. And the guys
says, "You know you didn't die because I was there." I saved the life
of the man who was all the time with the elephant, saving my life, all
the time. It was a miracle. You know? It was a miracle. I saved the
life of the guy, he saved my life. I could be with the elephants. I
knew the attitude of the elephants was very interesting but I will not
tell that here. Every picture changes your life.
Why do you think you exist? Why do you think people exist?
Why people exist...
Do you have an idea?
I think that all that is a marvelous dream. And we are in that dream,
we are part of that dream. But I think I don't know why we exist. Eh?
But I know what for to do what to exist. I know the finality of man.
That I know. That I can tell you. Man have three finalities. One
finality is to live the same length as the Universe lives. Not to be
immortal, but live the millions of years the Universe lives. That we
want as a human being. We don't want to die before the Universe dies,
we want to die WITH the Universe. That is one. The second is to know
all the Universe completely. Microcosmos, macrocosmos, to know the
Universe. We want that. And number three, to be the consciousness of
the Universe--is the way to be the God of the Universe. That is what
we want [shaking his head]. Every one of us wants that.
Do you think any of that's possible?
Well look, the apocalypse is the ending of history, no? The tree of
knowledge, yes, but the tree of eternity, they don't eat. And God say,
put out of the Paradise, Adam and Eve, because one day they will eat
the tree of eternity, and they will be like gods. Well they go out on
the adventure. And in the ending, the apocalypse, with the destruction
of everything, Jerusalem celestial comes, and in the center what they
have, the tree of eternity. And the humanity, eats the fruit of
eternity, and becomes eternal. That is the message of the Bible. The
apocalypse is positive and not negative. But in order to come to what
we are, we need to clean--our society, our selves. We need to clean,
we need to take out everything, not ourselves. In order to do what we
are. One more. Is not a movie interview, no?
I heard a story that when "Fando and Lis" opened in Mexico there was a
riot?
They want to kill me. Because Mexico making pictures of cowboys, very
awful, very Mexican. And I came to them with a way to do pictures, and
they have a shock. They think it was pornography what I did. That it
was a sacrilege. And then they start to want to lynch me at the
Acapulco festival and then I need to come in a car, they bring me out
to save me. And the director, Emilio Fernandez say, I will kill him.
He have killed all ready two guys. And it was true, he could kill me.
And that night I sent two whiskey bottles, I sent two whiskey bottles,
and he was very happy and we become friends. He forgive me and help
me, etc. That was the biggest conflict.
Did people want to kill you because of your other movies?
No no no, but in Mexico always they cut my pictures. "El Topo" was cut
60 minutes, and the "Holy Mountain" they cut 40 minutes. And when "El
Topo" was at the festival of Cannes, they ask my picture for the
competition very enthusiastic, Mexico didn't want it to represent
Mexico. Not Mexico, is not the Mexican movie. And then I could not be
in the contests. But later they agree, they say okay, they understood.
I change the mind of the young generation. And then they start to make
artistical pictures. They change. I came there as a catastrophe,
because I was doing whatever I wanted. That is a bad idea. But here in
the United States, when I show "Santa Sangre", they cut "Santa
Sangre".
I know--
Why?
I know, they cut "Santa Sangre". Why? In order to make business maybe.
You have a sense of censorship here.
It's incredible!
I went to the video store here, Blockbuster Video, but is awful! They
say, the pictures say "Family Version", as in the plane. I never see a
picture in the plane because they cut the pictures. Incredible no?
Well...
Yes but here is more now. First here was very free, in the 70s, 60s,
and now in Europe is free, and here, not. Here is very very now [makes
twisting fist], is Protestant mentality. Very very, a lot. Maybe
they're afraid of violence, the child who kills the child in the
school. But they think is picture that do that. Is not true! It is the
bad organization of the society that do that, is not the pictures. But
always we need to accuse something. You know, the animal you kill, how
do you say in English? You have the animal you kill and say, He is the
guilty.
Forestter: Scapegoat.
And the movies are now that, no? The child violence is because of the
movies, no? Is not true.