The Ballets Russes, 1932-1962: A Symposium Source: Dance Chronicle, Vol. 15, No. 2 (1992), pp.

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The Ballets Russes, 1932-1962: A Symposium

BalletsRussescomEditors'Note: Interestcontinuesto growin the post-Diaghilev panies, which flourishedfrom 1932to 1962.Therehave been the recentsuccessful revivalsof two of Massine'searliestsymphonicballets, Les Presagesby the Paris OperaBallet(andnow the JoffreyBallet),and Choreartium the Birmingham by Royal Ballet.Books like VicenteGarcia-Marques' BalletsRusses, followingKathrine The SorleyWalker'sDe Basil'sBalletsRussesand JackAnderson'sThe One and Only: TheBalletRussede MonteCarlo,havedocumented leading the and companies choreographers,while dancershave publishedtheir recollections,from the ballerinas Alexandra Danilova,AliciaMarkova,Sono Osato,and VeraZorinato lesser-known soloists like RosemaryDeveson and Dorothy Buckridge,and FredericFranklinis is beknownto be writinghis memoirs.As the historyof these companies gradually who madethathistoryremains filledin, a chanceto hearthe voicesof the dancers ing In welcomeand illuminating. 1982, when Igor Youskevitch-premierdanseurwith both the de Basiland Denhamcompaniesas well as BalletTheatre-retiredas Prowas of fessorof Danceat the University Texas,a celebration heldto markthe fiftieth anniversaries his debutandof the BalletsRussesde MonteCarlo,foundedby Rene of memto Blumand Col. de Basil.In addition the classestaughtby manydistinguished with one bersof these companies,a panelof dancerstalkedabouttheirexperiences or another (or several)of the companies.Those speakingwere ThomasArmour, YvonneChouteau,Alexandra Larkin,Robert Danilova,LeonDanielian,Moscelyne with Lindgren,and-coming in midway,after teachinga class-Igor Youskevitch, of the JackAndersonas moderator.To celebrate sixtiethanniversary the founding debut-we arepleased of thesepost-Diaghilev companies-andof IgorYouskevitch's to publish transcript thissymposium the occasion Mr.Youskevitch's of on of a eightieth birthday.

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JACK ANDERSON: Before I introducethe panel, to make surethat we all know whatwe aretalkingabout, I'll tryto summarize a very complicatedbit of history. 1982 is an importantanniversary of yearin manyways.Not onlyis it, as we know,the Jubilee IgorYousbut 1982is also the fiftieth anniversary the foundingof of kevitch, and the firstof the BalletsRussescompanies the twentieth anniversary of the demiseof the last of these companies. What were the BalletsRussescompanies?They were companies that flourishedfrom the 1930son into the early 1960s,and they came about as the resultof the deathof SergeDiaghilev,the greatest of all contemporary balletdirectors. WhenDiaghilevdiedin 1929,his died with him and thereweremanypeople who fearedthat company balletitself mighthave died as a creativeart. However,in 1932,two men-Col. Wassilyde Basil and Rene Blum-got togetherto form a companyin Monte Carlo. It includedmany dancersfrom the Diaghilev companyas well as dancersfrom Russia,fromWesternEurope, and fromthe New World. This companybecamea greatsuccess.But soon there was dissensionin it. A split came betweende Basil and Blum, and Blum founded a new companyof his own, the Balletsde Monte Carlo. Therethen occurredanotherperiodof dissensionand another splitin de Basil'sranks.The splinter groupgot togetherwiththe Blum it out, and a new companywas establishedcalled company,bought BalletRussede MonteCarlo.The administrative director that comof banker, SergeiDenham, and for the first pany was a Russian-born seasonsits artisticdirector the greatchoreographer was LeonideMassine. So, by the end of the 1930s,we had two big BalletsRussescomBalletRusse)andthe panies:de Basil's(whichhe latercalledOriginal Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. Here with us are some dancerswho have appearedwith these companies,and with other companiesas well. On my rightis one of the greatladiesof ballet,Alexandra Danilova,whosecareergoes back to the Imperial Theatre.ShedancedwithDiagBalletat the Maryinsky hilev, she danced with de Basil, and she was the primaballerinaof the BalletRussede MonteCarlo.She is still activein the balletworld, teaching,stagingballets, and devotingher life to the art she loves so much.

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and Danilovain the SnowScenefrom IgorYouskevitch Alexandra TheNutcrackerfor the Ballet Russede Monte Carlo.

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At the far rightof the tableis ThomasArmour.He wasa memberof both the de Basilcompanyandthe BalletRussede MonteCarlo and is currently[1982]the directorof the MiamiBallet. Next to him is Leon Danielian,who was a chartermemberof BalletTheatre.He dancedbrieflywiththe de Basilcompanyand for a long time was one of the principal male dancersof the BalletRussede MonteCarlo. He and also dancedas guest artistwith the Balletsdes Champs-Elysees the San FranciscoBalletand he, too, is activetoday as a teacher.The womenat my left are two of the legendary of Indianballerinas Oklawho contributed muchto the Ballets Russes. Hereis Moscelyne so homa, Larkin,known as Moussiato friends.She was first a memberof the de Basil company, then a memberof Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo, andtodayshe andherhusband,RomanJasinski, who wasalso a memof both BalletsRusses,areco-directors the TulsaBalletTheatre. ber of Nextto heris YvonneChouteau, who wasa member the BalletRusse of de Monte Carlo. She is today active in OklahomaCity as a teacher and she is on the facultyof the Universityof Oklahomaat Norman. At the end of the table is RobertLindgren.Anotheralumnusof the BalletRussede MonteCarlo, he also dancedwiththe New YorkCity Ballet and is currently[1982]Dean of Dance at the North Carolina School of the Arts and directorof North CarolinaDance Theatre. I shouldlike to point out that all aroundthe festivalare other BalletsRussespeople:IgorYouskevitch,of course,and also Anatole RomanJasinski,GeorgeZoritch,Alicia Vilzak,NathalieKrassovska, Alonso, MiguelTerekhov, Nadal,andgoodEugeneSlavin,Alexandra ness knowshow manyotherpeople-and if I've forgottento mention your name, our affection goes out to you all, nonetheless. The BalletsRussescompanies wereprimarily touring companies. and They went everywhere introducedballet to thousandsof people all over the world, includingthe United States. I have a curiouspersonal connectionwith some of these people herebecauseon January 21, 1950,in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,I wentto my veryfirstballetperformance.The bill consistedof Coppelia,in three acts, the Bluebird pas de deux, and a little comic balletcalledBirthday.In Coppeliathe Swanildathat I saw-indeed, the first greatballerinaI ever saw, and in one of her finest roles-was AlexandraDanilova. The man who dancedBluebird that nightwith RuthannaBoriswas Leon Danielian. In Coppelia Larkinwas one of Swanilda's friends.Yvonne Moscelyne

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Chouteaudancedthe Prayervariationand RobertLindgrenled the Czardas.And here all these wonderfulpeople are! I would first like to ask you this: The BalletsRusseswas conit sideredspecial. People remember as being special. What kinds of thingsmadeit so? And by BalletsRusses,I heremeanboth de Basil's companyand the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. ALEXANDRA DANILOVA: I think the BalletsRusseswas specialbecauseit wentall aroundthe UnitedStates.It was reallydediIt cated to the art and it broughtdancingeverywhere. also educated with beautifulmodernmusic and avant-garde painters.Our people scenerywas paintedby Pablo Picasso, by SalvadorDali, by Derain, by Miro. LEON DANIELIAN: Mme Danilova underratesherself, as far as I'm concerned.In 1933,beforede Basil'scompanyarrived,we didn'treallyhavea ballerina.We had wonderfuldancerswho danced vaudevilleand so on, and thereweresmallcompanies,includingthe But Mordkin Ballet(whicheventually becameBalletTheatre). in 1933, I with de Basil,my friendShura[Danilova] the firstrealballerina was and sawand I thinkthat she set the standard becamethe imageof what everyAmerican who studiedballetlookedup to andwantedto be. girl We didn't know then what a primaballerinawas, muchless what an assolutawas. But she is sittingright here! ROBERTLINDGREN:I'm a Canadianfrom a rathersmall thana metropolitan likeNew York.Likemanyyoung rather area town, people of the time, when I was a boy I was interestedin dance. But we didn't know how to get into danceor whereit existed.I'd gone to the public libraryand I'd read books about the Diaghilevcompany, but there was no televisionand certainlyno motion picturesabout ballet. And then my mother came back with a souvenirbook from of the 1936performance Col. de Basil'sBalletsRussesin Seattle,WashShe had seen this companyof Russiandancers,and I looked ington. at that book-I looked at that book for years-and I saw picturesof marvelous peoplein LondonandParisandMadrid,andI said, "What an excitingand wonderfullife, to be able to tour and be with such a company!"TherewereRussiansin it, therewereEnglishpeoplein it, there were Americans.It seemedto me the epitome of a glamorous life. Certainly,the people in it helped make the companyspecial. I whenthe balletusedto cometo Victoria,BritishColumbia, remember

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it would travelby boat and passengers would get off and walk up to the hotel. And I remember down to meet that boat and asking going a ladyif I couldcarry bagsforher:it turned to be MiaSlavenska. her out I lived on that memoryfor years. I think, too, that one of the special thingswasthat therereallywas no othercompanythen. Thereweren't the hundredsof openingsfor young people that there are now, and so everybodyin ballet becamevery specialin your life, and that was for that responsible the camaraderie all of us still share,afterall these years,for we all remember somethingthat we thoughtwas absolutely glorious. ANDERSON:I'd liketo ask whatwas specialaboutthe Ballets Russes dancing style. Was there a definableBallets Russes style of dancingand, if so, how could it be described? MOSCELYNE LARKIN:I'd like to try to. In the BalletRusse de MonteCarlo,thethingthatI remember mostis thateachperson, the fromthe starsto the corpsde ballet-and eventhe newestlittlemember of the corpsde ballet-had an individual and personality, thatis somethingthatseemsto be lost in our effortstoday.I knowthatunderSerge in Grigoriev,our regisseur the de Basilcompany,we wereallowedto our own personalities withinthe confinesof the directed ballet. develop someballetsfallon theirnoseswhenwe tryto revive them-CarToday, naval,for instance.Yet if you wentto see the BalletRussein that, each the of dancer.Now I worship partreflected personality that individual at the altarof Mr. Balanchine, absolutely andI thinkhe'sthe greatI do, estlivinggenius,buthe haslefthismarkuponhiscompany sucha way in that you can see somethingthat can be readilyidentifiedas a Balanchinedancer.Yet, whilewe wereat BalletRussede MonteCarlo,Danilova was in no way like Slavenska Krassovska. or Eachone had a personality. ANDERSON:How did it come about, though, with everyone works dancingin an individualstyle that the basic style of particular in the repertoire not violated?How did you have stylisticapprowas priatenessas well as individuality? DANILOVA:Well, I think I can give an example.Likepeople walkdifferently, know. walking-everybodywalk, andeverybody you So it is the same when you do assembleor arabesque: will look one this way and anothermay look that way. And that is individuality. Yet arabesquewill alwaysbe arabesque.

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that LARKIN:I also thinkit important we workedwithseveral We had not one choreographer, had many. We we choreographers. hadFokine,we hadLichine, hadMassine. in de Basil'scompany we But all this was beingheld togetherby Grigoriev,who was our authority on style. We did have to remainwithin a basic style. For instance, when I changedover from de Basil's OriginalBallet Russeto Ballet Russede Monte Carlo, whereFredericFranklinwas ballet master,I went from one SwanLake productionto another.Yet I didn't have to many adjustments make. ANDERSON: Thoseof you who areteachers,what,as a result of yourBalletsRusses do experiences, you tryto instillin yourstudents? How has your BalletsRussesbackground affectedyou as a teacher? I THOMAS ARMOUR: wouldsaythatI tryto keepthe classical traditions werehandeddownto me fromthe verybeginning that when I wentto Paristo studywithOlgaPreobrajenska LubovEgorova, and and then the style I encountered when I went into the BalletsRusses the that andlearned repertoire I'd readso muchabout. I learned these differentstyles and I try to teach my pupilsto do thingsin the old, traditionalclassicalway. They can still do modernthings or go into Balanchine's trained companyand learnhis styleif they are properly from the beginning,becausethereis nothingbetterthan the training of classicalballet. DANILOVA: eachchoreoWell,I thinkthateachballetmaster, has his own style and it is necessary respectand preserve to grapher, it. That is very difficultto do, but it is what I am tryingto do in my stagings.For instance,for our School of AmericanBalletworkshop, I'm doing Fokine'sChopiniana, whichis veryromanticand delicate. Its graceis verydifficult, yet I'm tryingto keep that styleof Fokine. But when you revivea ballet by Mr. Balanchine,that is a different style, and the people who revivethis ballet must stick to this style. YVONNECHOUTEAU: thinkthatwhatI havetriedto instill I in my studentsis a senseof reallydancing.And that is somethingall of us youngpeoplelearned fromMmeDanilova, whotaught to dance us with our wholebeing,and also, of course,but in a verydifferentvein, fromMr. Massine, who insisted thatyou use the entirebody. I remember once he was correctingme in SeventhSymphony,and he said, "No, you mustuse yourentiretorso, don't keepit so rigid,so straight. The whole body must dance." And this is what my husbandMiguel

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in of IgorYouskevitch costumefor the thirdmovement Massine's SeventhSymphony.

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and Terekhov I havestressed our teaching in overthe lasttwentyyears: we want to give dancersa sense of reallydancing, so when you put them on stage there is somethingthere to see, and not just a perfect classroomdancer. DANILOVA:May I say something?Maybeour audiencewill think personality meansthat you haveto make a face, a specialface, whenyou suffer.But I remember told us neverusejust face, Diaghilev but use the body. Dancingis all body, andyou makesadnessor happiness with the body, not with the face. DANIELIAN:I thinkthereis a greatdifference betweenteachand coachinga dancer.I think that you must teach the basicsin ing theirsimplestform. For instance,the firstarabesque shouldbe as pure as you can possiblyget it from a student.Now, if that studentis later to dancesomething stage,that'sa completely on differentthing. Then you make students feel that they are part of the theatre-which is dancersforget about. As a dancer, somethinga lot of contemporary arein the theatre,like an actoris or an operasinger.To use operyou atic terminology, some singersarecoloraturas, some aremezzos.Simdancers.But all these styilarly,we have classicaland demi-caractere listic matterscome after the classroom.In the classroom,you learn technique.Thenyou are readyfor coaching,in whichthe personality of each individualcan be broughtout. I LINDGREN: findit rather that interesting so manyof us who werewiththe BalletRusseseemto teachin the samestyleandyet there wasno schoolattached any of the BalletsRusseswhenwe werewith to them. Stylewas somethingthat was simplypassedon from dancerto dancer.When you saw Mr. Youskevitchdance, or AndreEglevsky, or FreddyFranklin,then at the beginningyou would try to imitate how those people danced, and if you had the opportunityto dance one of their roles, then you would begin by tryingto emulatethem. And that gaveyou an idea of differentstyles.Certainly, thinkeveryI triedto turn like AndreEglevsky.Everybodytried to have the body soft qualityof Mr. Youskevitch,the speedof Franklin,and the spark of Leon Danielian.I thinkthat'show we reallylearned becomeperto formers,and a lot of us learnedto teach after we stopped dancing. As TommyArmourpoints out, therewas a traditionthat we felt was handeddown to us. We were upset if anyone changedone step of a pas de deux one little bit. So therewas a traditionwe all revered,and

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we felt this was trueclassicdancing.It's amazingwhenI watcheverybody from that time teach. There's a remarkablesimilarityin our teaching. ARMOUR:We were talking about the changesmade by the BalletsRussesin America.The greatestchange, I think, did involve teaching.WhenI firststarteddancingwiththe BalletRusse,therewere few schools acrossthe countrythat we considered good enoughto go and take classesat if we had a layoverin a town. Now, all the old Ballets Russesand AmericanBalletTheatredancersareteachingall over the country.There'shardlya town of any size in Americawhereyou can't find at least one good ballet school. ANDERSON:I'd like to changethe subjectslightly.The Ballets Russeshad in it dancerswho were Russiansthemselves,dancers who werechildren Russianemigres,dancersfromWestern of Europe, and dancersfrom the United Statesand Canada.We have a number of NorthAmerican dancers hereon this panel. I'd be curiousto know how or why you decidedto go into the BalletsRusses. ARMOUR:I startedtakinglessons from my motherand had about five or six yearsof verycarefuldailytrainingwithher. She had and studiedwith Preobrajenska she took me to Paristo studywithher and, later on, with Egorova. So all my training,really, comes from the Russians.One day, Preobrajenska said, "Wouldyou like to just out for Ida Rubinstein'scompany?"And I said, "Do you think try I'm ready?" "Yes, of course, that's what I'm trainingyou for." So I auditionedand was accepted.(Mr. Vilzak,by the way, was our premier danseurwith Ida Rubinstein.)After that, I workedwith Mme Nijinska'scompanyand the next obvious thing was to continueon with the Ballets Russes. And I did so with a Ballet Russeyou don't hear much about now. But it lastedthree yearsor so and was a sort of outgrowthof a companyoriginally directedby Leon Woizikovsky. He formeda BalletRussede Woizikovskyand I went in at the beginningand we touredfor four or five monthsin Europe.Thenhe started runningout of contracts,and de Basilwas sittingtherewithtwo contracts, one for the United Statesand one for Australiaand New Zealand. So he got togetherwith Leon, and by takingsome dancersfrom de Basil's companyand pickingup a lot of their repertoire,we went out and did the Australianand New Zealandtour as de Basil'ssecond companywhile the main companywas touringin the United States.

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We weresuch a successthat insteadof the threemonthsthat we went out for, we stayed seven months, so they must have liked us. Then, whenwarbrokeout in 1939,I camebackto the Statesand, obviously, I wantedto dance. Massinewas in New York. I auditionedfor him and was taken into his company,the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. That was the year the full companycame back to New York from Europeat the very last minutebecauseof wartimedifficulties.You Shura?The companyarrived day of the openingat the the remember, Met and the dancershad to come straightthere. They went upstairs and the few Americandancersthat they had pickedup here (likeme) joined togetherwith those that had just arrivedfrom Europeand we and rehearsed, gave a performance, that nightwe stayedup nearlyall from the next day. night rehearsing DANILOVA:Yes, I remember very well: Devil's Holidayand I dancedwith GeorgeZoritch. ANDERSON:Leon, you werefirsta member BalletTheatre of and then a memberof both BalletsRussescompanies.How did you get from Ballet Theatreinto Ballet Russe? DANILOVA:He was too good. We snatchhim! DANIELIAN:I was born in New York and have alwaysconsidered myselfan American dancer,and I'm devotedto BalletTheatre as well as to the Ballet Russede Monte Carlo. But the face of Ballet Theatrechangedin the early 1940s, and a Russianby the name of GeraldSevastianofftook over. I was not able to sign my own contract becauseI was underageat the time. You had to be twenty-one, and I think I was eighteenor nineteen.The new administration Mr. of Sevastianoff of $75a weekto a not so hot dropped veryhighsalary my $65 a week and my father snatchedme out of the company. I went andjoined Col. de Basil, andthen Col. de Basilsaidhis companywas going to SouthAmericaand the warwas comingand I shouldstay in New York. So I stayedin New Yorkand didn'tgo to SouthAmerica, and then I joined BalletRussede Monte Carlo. And that's the story of my life! ANDERSON: Russes? Moussia,how didyou get intothe Ballets LARKIN:Well, my motheris Russianand my fatheris American Indian;I cameto balletby a long circuit.As a child, I dancedin powwowsin a smalltown in Oklahoma,and my motherhad a dancing school-a dancing,not a ballet, school. She'd originallycome to

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Oklahomain a Broadwayshow. My fathersaw her;he was an Indian and very stubborn,and he kept her therein Oklahoma.I neverreally had a choice about dancing.Dancinghas alwaysbeen a part of my whenI everdidnot dance.ButwhenI wastwelve life. I don'tremember or thirteenyearsold, my mothertook me to New YorkCityone summerand I studiedwith VincenzoCelli, and I studiedwith Mordkinwhichis whereI firstworkedwith LeonDanielian-then studiedwith Vilzak and Shollar, and I cherishmy years with them. And, while I School. One day, studiedballet, I wentto the ProfessionalChildren's Col. de Basil's BalletsRussescameto New York and held auditions. We werenot told aboutthem, but some of us youngstudentsdid find out and we went:Barbara Fallis,for one, andYvonnechik [Chouteau] was there, I know. We skippedour morningclass and went to auditions. Col. de Basil, for some reasonor other, rathertook a likingto furme and offeredme a contract.Shollarand Vilzakwereabsolutely ious. Mme Shollarcried, Mr. Vilzakdidn'ttalk to me for two weeks, and they wereright:I was muchtoo young. But I was very fortunate because,as we often say, balletis a family,andthe BalletsRussestook me into theirfamily.I knewnothing.I wasgreen,andthe BalletsRusses dancers that taughtme everything I know, fromhow to eat to how to walk and how to live. CHOUTEAU:In 1933de Basil'sBalletsRussescameto Oklahoma City. I was about five yearsold and my fathertook me to see them. MmeDanilovawasthere,andToumanova, too-all of the great ballerinas werethere-and from that time on I decidedthat I was going to dance. What's also importantis that my fathereventuallydecided, too, that I was going to be a ballerina.Moussiahad gone earlier to New York, the Tallchiefgirls had gone to California.And it was RosellaHightower who wasthe firstto makehernameamongthe AmericanIndianballerinas.My fathertook me to New York in the summerof 1941.Mr. Vilzakand MmeShollarweremy firstteachers. Then,someonein the studiosaid, "Let'sall go to the Schoolof American Ballet.They'rehavinga competition there.So come on, Yvonne, just for the fun of it, even though you're not nearlyready"-which I knewverywell! So I wentjust to be a daredevil.MmeDanilovawas one of the judgesand fromthat momenton Madamewasthe guiding light of my careerin the theatre.After being acceptedby the School of AmericanBalletfor a scholarship, two best friendswereTanamy

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quilLe Clercqand RickySoma(wholaterbecameMrs.JohnHuston), and, of course,my idol was MmeDanilova.I wantedto be like Mme Danilova,Tannywantedto be like Baronova,andRickySomawanted to be Toumanova.A verydearfriendof mineat the timewas Romana She Kryzanowska. wantedto be MmeDanilova,too, so that causeda of the ways. She is, as some of you know, the mother-in-law splitting of SuzanneFarrelland one of the exponentsof the Pilates method. Our respectfor Mme Danilovawas not just a fan's response.I think Moussia, and GertrudeTyven, and some of the youngergirls at the Ballet Russewould all say that if you weregiven a role and coached in it by AlexandraDanilova, you would receivea thoroughmasterthat piece of coaching.Onceyou've had it, it's an experience you will remember entirelifetime. Thank you, Madame! your LINDGREN: B. Victoria, C. You can imagine tryingto learnto dancein Victoria, British in Columbia, 1936.Whenmy motherbrought this book aboutCol. de Basil'sballetback for us she decidedto enroll BalletandElocution,whichwasthe my sistersin the Schoolof Russian only dancingschool in my hometown. I studiedeverySaturday.My sistersall stoppeddancing.But who was the one who continuedwith it? Little Bobby! My motherhad plannedto send me to Preobrajenska in Paris and I thought I was going to go there. But whenthe war brokeout it wasalmostimpossible go abroad.However, to BalletRusse de MonteCarlocameto town andmy dancing teacher theywanted said people for the next show. I went down and found I could be a super in GaiteParisienne, a member the littleorchestra as of that'ssupposed to be playingin the cafe. They pushedus on and we had to look like we belonged.But I think that turnedme on and I just knew I had to be in that company.Therewas no good school in Victoriathen, but therewas a school in Vancouver,runby a womannamedJuneRoper who happenedto be from Waco, Texas, and had gone to Canadabecauseshe sufferedfromrheumatic feverandthoughtthe climatewould be good for her. She opened a school and becamequite famous. A lot of dancerswho changedtheirnamesin the BalletsRussesstudied with her: Natasha Sobinova, AlexandraDenisova, Anna Istomina, and KiraBounina.*And threeyoungmen-Ian Gibson,DuncanNo*For more information on June Roper and Alexandra Denisova, see Dance Chronicle, Vol. 3, No. 1 and Vol. 10, No. 1.

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ble, and myself-also came out of her school. Everyyear, Mr. Massine used to come to Vancouverand say to June, "Whatyoung dancers do you have for the companythis year?" So if he came to our school and held auditions,it wasn't if, but when, we would join the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. ANDERSON:A numberof dancershave madethe point that at the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo and at Col. de Basil's company One you got a chanceto workwitha numberof greatchoreographers. of them was LeonideMassine.For a time, his reputationwas under a cloud becausestyleschanged,tasteschanged,and he was considered in passe.Now, all of a sudden,in recentyears,interest his workis growFor the BalletsRusses,Massinechoreographed essentially ing again. two kindsof ballets. Therewerethe frothycomedies,of which Galte Parisienneand Le Beau Danube are perhapsthe best known examples, and there were massiveallegoricalballetsto some of the great symphonies,ballets that were nicknamedthe SymphonicBallets. I wonderwhetherwe could take up some of these ballets by Massine and try to describewhathis style was like. Let's beginwiththe comedies because we have some very notable interpreters their comic of and roleshere. MmeDanilovawasthe GloveSellerin GaiteParisienne the StreetDancerin Beau Danube andDANILOVA: Also a reputationI have! Street Dancer and Glove Seller! ANDERSON:Even though the comic role of the Peruvianin Gaite Parisiennewas createdby Massinehimself, one of the most famousof all the laterinterpreters the partwas Leon Danielian.So of I wonderwhethereitherMmeDanilovaor Leon could say something about the particular comic style that Massinehad in his ballets. DANIELIAN:Until I joinedthe BalletRussede MonteCarlo, my repertoireconsisted of doing entrechat-six-well, Bluebirdwas typical. I moved quicklyand did beats and I'd never done anything dramaticon the stage. I'm not certainwhetherit was Mme Danilova Franklinor Mr. Denham,but somebodysuggestedI learn or Frederic in the partof the Peruvian,and I felt so awkward it and I was terrorstrickento dance opposite Mme Danilova, though I did it for a few Fortunately,YurekLazowskijoinedthe companyand performances. he wantedto do it, and I was delightedto give him this opportunity. for But one day, unfortunately him, I was sittingin the audienceand

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I saw Gaitefrom the front and I thought, you know, that's a marvelous role-I think I'm going to ask for it back! So I got it back and then I dancedit, I guess, fifteen years.We just saw a film of it in the Public Libraryin New York and it still looked verygood. I've seen a revival it on stagebut, you know, I don'tthinkthatthe castbelieved of in the characters. And when I coachedthem in Galtethe young dancers didn't know what the demi-mondewas or what the turn of the centurywaslike andtheyweredubiousaboutthe can-can.Theydidn't believe, and they didn't want to believe, whereasI think the Ballet Russe dancersalwaysbelievedin the Massinerepertoire. DANILOVA:You askedme why I am a comedienne.I think life consistsof pessimists optimists.Well, I am optimistand I love and life and alwayslook on the brightsideof life. So that'swhy I get these ballets. ANDERSON:Massineonce said that MmeDanilovawas like champagneon stage. LARKIN:Can I tell somethingabout Mme Danilova?I think it's the most beautifulstoryI know. We traveledto Japanwith Shura in a littlegroupconsistingof Danilova,MichaelMaule,my husband, and myself. We went to Osakato perform,wherewe did Beau Danube-a smallversionof Beau Danube-and what made me think of this is Mme Danilovamakingthat joke about her reputation.Sitting before you is a lady who is everything the world. She is queen, she in is mother, she is a verybeautifullady, and in some instancesa street in dancer,all rolledup into a ball. One lady. After the performance at some Osaka,we wentto a reception whichtherewerefour Japanese, of the highest-ranking peoplein the city. One of themwas a Japanese ascetic.We weretold to behaveproperlyat that reception."We must try, Shura," I'd say. "You must try a little bit of everything.If they give you this squid, or whatever,don't show that you don't like it." Anyway,we're sittingtheretryingso hardto be good with all of our legs crossedand suddenlyI saw Shura'seyes fill with tears. I started and asceticthankingher for having eavesdropping heardthe Japanese helped him to achieveNirvanafor the very first time in his life. He saidthat all of his life he had triedto achieveNirvana,but he had not untilthat nightwhenhe watchedherjust sit on the stagein BeauDanube with her skirtsup like that. Would you believeit? And he said, "It is so beautiful." If I can remember correctly-and I cry every it

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timeI thinkaboutit-he said, "Youwerestonesand flowers,you were wind and quiet, you were everythingand nothing." And that is the most beautifulthing I have ever heard. ANDERSON: I would like to ask Mme Danilova a specific questionaboutthesetwo comicrolesof Massine.Boththe GloveSeller and the StreetDancerare womenof the world. They'reboth charactersin lighthearted ballets.But how do you conceiveof them as being different? DANILOVA: When Massine first asked me to dance Beau Danube, I didn't wantto becauseI thoughtthe partveryvulgarand, you know, I didn't wantto playthat bad woman. But then I thought bad that in everything is somethinggood, so that it was on this basis that I createdthat part. Thereis one momentwhen my love, the officer, is arrivingwith his fianceeand I want to breaktheir marriage. And then, you know, seeinghow the girlis innocentandhow shereally likes him, I say, "Well, suchis life." And I do pas de chat and disappear. Now, in contrast,the Glove Seller:it's Paris and it's can-can. I went to the famous MoulinRouge and I watchedall these dancers, who dancedwith the skirt, lifting the skirt, and I learnedall the different ways of lifting the skirt from watchingthe authenticcan-can at the Moulin Rouge. CHOUTEAU:Overthe years, I was very fortunateto dance differenttypes of Massineroles, startingout with the Glove Sellerthe happy parts. I feel that Massinewas a very greatchoreographer in who was neverfully appreciated this country.He could createhappiness and gaiety, and yet in certainmomentsof SeventhSymphony beautifulseriousmovement. or of Haroldin Italytherewas extremely Nini Theiladein One ballet I wantedto do very much-I remember it-was Nobilissima Visione(St. Francis),yet I neverhad the opportunity. Massinewent from the height of gaiety and happinessto the depthsof tragedy;he was a great choreographer. ANDERSON:Wouldanyonelike to say anythingmoreabout the seriousMassineballets, the symphonicballets? ARMOUR:I've beenthinkingaboutthem for years,andwhen I think back on Rouge et Noir I think it would still be considereda modernballettoday and I thinkthe audience wouldlike it. It's a beautiful ballet.

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DANIELIAN:I'd like to makea commentaboutthe Massine ballets. YvonneChouteauremindedme of Harold in Italy and Gaite Parisienne.Today there'sa feelingthat you've got to be nineteenor fifteenyearsold to be a ballerina.In the Massinerepertoire could you be an artistat forty, andif you keptyourenergies yourhealthyou and well into your mature could keep on dancingmost of the repertoire years,whichyou can't do with a lot of presentday ballets:yourjump is disappears-andthen, forgetit! You know,if yourbalance no longer there or you can no longer do your thirty-twofouettes, your whole careeris gone. Yet the Massinerepertoire a repertoire artists was for who maturedas they grew. I found that so in Galteand Harold in Italy-and in BeauDanube,too, whichI dancedveryrarely: could you maturein them, and it's wonderfulto feel that you'renot just an athlete, but an artiston stage. I LINDGREN: thinkit's also important pointout thatthose to Massineballetswerereallydemi-caractere ballets.Theyweren'tnecessarilypointe ballets and not many people were actuallydancingon no pointeand, certainly, one everworetightsexceptin Rougeet Noir,
so...

ANDERSON:You'd better explainthat, Bobby. Otherwise, people may think you mean nudity! LINDGREN: In Rouge et Noir we wore woolen leotardsdesignedby Matisse.They werein three differentcolors and you wore them in layers-red, yellow, black-and you took one layeroff at a time. So you started rather andgot smaller! out big Anyway,I do think dancerswho were many of Massine'sballetswere for demi-caractere at acting and makinga role come alive. And you could work good I out yourwayup in thoseroles. In GaiteParisienne started in the little on-stageorchestra.Then I was a waiter,a billiardplayer,a soldier, and an officer. I evendid the Peruvian-so it was a matterof growth. You sort of grew from part to part sometimes,and workingup in a balletmighttakeyou five years.But it was a wayof developing coma we pletelydifferentkindof artist.I mean,certainly wentto classevery for singleday, but therewerealso otherpossibilities youngartists.We learnedto wear costumeswell, we learnedto wear blonde wigs, red boots, God knowswhat!A youngdancerhad a tremendous spectrum all of possibilities, the way fromclassicballetslike SwanLakeandLes Sylphidesto Petrouchka,Prince Igor, and the Massineballets.

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Igor Youskevitch in the Black Swan pas de deux.

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ANDERSON:I would like to ask one furtherquestionabout the Massineroles. The serioussymphonicballetswereoriginallycreated in the 1930s.Then, in the late 1940s,the BalletRussede Monte Carlo revivedtwo of them, Rouge et Noir and SeventhSymphony, and there weremanycriticsat that time who yawnedat the revivals. Somepeoplelikedthem, nevertheless, interestin themis growing and and ... who joins thepanel at this (Igor Youskevitch, had beenat a rehearsal, point.) Can I crashthe party? YOUSKEVITCH: ANDERSON(continuing discussion,after introductions): the John Mueller,of the DanceFilmArchiveat the University Rochesof ter, has taken some of Massine'swork films and is puttingmusical soundtracks them,so we canat leastget someideaof whatthe choreto ographylooked like. I'm curious,Bobby, why at a time whencertain people were yawningat Massinethose symphonicballets attracted to you. What did you find interesting dance about them? LINDGREN:Well, we revivedthem in 1948, which was the tenth anniversary the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo. Previously,I of had seen both Rouge et Noir and SeventhSymphony,and St. Francis as well. In the Rouge et Noir revival,we wereall doing something that we consideredgreat. We were dancingto Shostakovichbefore an incredible designed Matisse,and we just felt therewas someset by about that ballet and we werehonoredto be dancing thing spiritual in it. I think Rouge et Noir had more successwith the public than Seventh the And, possibly, musiccritics Symphony. mayhavekilledSeventh Symphony.But I remember with dancingandrehearsing Massine at the old Metropolitan House. I was cast in the secondmoveOpera mentof SeventhSymphony,in whatwe all thoughtwas a crucifixion scene, althoughMassinenever actuallysaid it was the crucifixion.I was dancinga part createdby Max Kirbosthat corresponded the to of character Judasandit wasthe most fantastic I haveeverdanced. role Having Massinecoach me was a marvelousexperience.And in the thirdmovement-Moussia, you werein it, too-we wereall running up and down with hornsand we thoughtit was somethingincredible. LARKIN:It's a matterof theatricsand the magicof theatre, and it was the music, and Massinewas so inventive.I see people do thingstoday and theythinkthey'reso innovative.We talk aboutPilo-

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on bolus, we talk aboutmoderndance.But backthen, we crawled the floor, we rolled, we did contractions-there isn't any kind of movementthat we reallydid not do in those ballets.Yet technique conwas sideredonly a meansto an end. YOUSKEVITCH: areright,absolutelyright.It just came You to my mind that in the 1930sI saw KurtJooss's GreenTablefor the first time, and the movementthat was in Green Tablewas of a sort usedfor quitesometime. It wasnot exactlymoder dance thatMassine movement,but elementsof the contemporary approachwere there mixed with the balletic approach. Speakingabout Massine'ssymphonic ballets, yes, I would have to say they were unique. But I rememberthe musiccriticscriticizing SeventhSymphonyveryharshly: how darehe takeBeethoven makea danceto thatmusic!So it was and kindof an advanced We thoughtin choreography. dancers reallycould not realizerightawaythe importance balletslikethat whenwe were of them. And Massinehad a nasty habit. He would try out rehearsing new movementon anyonewho happenedto be around,regardless of male or female. Sometimesa girl, after learninga part, would sex, find out that it was not a femalepart, but a malepart, and somebody else woulddanceit. But eventually,whenwe reallyperformed Masa sineballeton stage,then its significance wouldstickin our minds.We would know the implicationsand significanceof Massine'schoreography. ANDERSON:One of the advantages that BalletsRussesdancers had was that they could work with choreographers such difof ferent styles: Fokine, Nijinska, Lichine, Massine, and Balanchine as well. Duringthe 1940sthe BalletRussede Monte Carlodid some very importantballets by GeorgeBalanchine,and one of them was Danses Concertantes. a workthat a lot of peoplerecallwithgreat It's affection. Anyone have any memoriesof what it was like? DANILOVA:I remember wasguestof Lichinewhenwe were I in California,and everymorningwe had to get up early, 8 o'clock or 7:30, to motor from BeverlyHills to Los Angelesfor BalletRusse de Monte Carlorehearsals and, you know, everybodywas yawning, and I looked at the score for Stravinsky's new ballet and, for some reason,the pageswerewhiteand the musicwas in greenink. And at rehearsal was on Stravinsky playing the piano-BANG! BANG!-and, it was so awfulthat I thought, Whatan awfulballet!And you know,

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that was my firstimpression.Then, whenit was all done and Eugene Bermandesignedthe costumes,everybodysaw it was a jewel. It was diamond,sapphire,emerald.It was a reallybeautifulballet. ANDERSON:What was the movementstyle of Danses Concertanteslike? DANILOVA:Well, the movementswere quite classical,but the music was reallydifficult and, you know, when you conquered that, it was a greatsatisfaction.You feel, you know, a littlebit superior. LARKIN:In the pas de deux we used to sing "June in JanuRemember? was verydifficultmusic.Ourearsweren'taccusIt ary." tomed to it. So we would sing everything,we wouldtry to sing lyrics to the musicto understand better.It wasjazzy,thatballet,veryjazzy, it clean. very YOUSKEVITCH: Balanchine Was satisfiedwiththe performances? DANILOVA: of Yes, he was. As a matter fact, he neverwanted to do it the same again. He said he did that ballet for certainpeople and he didn'twantto repeatit becauseotherpeoplewouldn'tbe able to do what we did. YOUSKEVITCH: has Every choreographer his own mysterious ways. And that bringsto mind againMassinewho, no question, wasa good choreographer. I do remember strange waswhen But how it he was choreographing Shostakovich'sLeningradSymphony.I was withhim at the timewitha smallcompanycalledBalletRusse working Highlights,and I don't knowif he finishedthat symphonyeventually becausehe imaginedit as a full-lengthbig production.But he started to choreograph on only six people, and that didn't botherhim at it all. I was supposedto be a Russianpeasantsuppressed the Nazis. by He wasdoingthis variation me. Well,I basically for understand choreographersprettywell, and I thought I understoodwhat the steps he gave me wereall about. Then, suddenly,he gaveme some stepsand I couldn'tconnectthem to the rest of the variation.My wife, who was my hardestcritic, said, "That's lousy, you don't do this too well." And I was tryinghardto kind of modulateand I couldn't, so finally I askedMassine.I said, "Whatam I supposedto thinkaboutor what am I doing here?The rest I understand: am suffering,I am doing I this or that, and then I'm fighting.But whatis this?" "Well, I forgot

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to tell you," Massinesaid. "Now you area B-17bomber,you'redropping bombs." ANDERSON:If you could pick one balletfrom the repertoire of any of the Ballets Russes companiesthat's no longer dancedtoday and have it revivedwell, what would your candidatefor revival be? And why? LINDGREN:Mine would be Rouge et Noir because I think it would stand up with today's classicaldancing. I think it was well balmusical,andjust a reallybrilliant organized,well choreographed, let. In fact, I think it was ahead of its time; it was an extraordinary work. LARKIN:There'sone balletthat I knowwouldlook good becausewe've alreadydone partof it with our TulsaBalletTheatre.We to revivedthe second scene of Massine'sChoreartium, Brahms-the scenefor the ladiesin the long red dresses.It is a verybeautifulpiece and it is somethingthat alwaysmeant a lot to me to be part of as a dancer.And the audiencestillloves it. It was verymodern,you know, the line of women just walkingin slowly in the long red robes. YOUSKEVITCH: piecebecause Rougeet Noir wasa wonderful it did combinethe classicaltraditionwith a contemporary approach and contemporary ideas. But I would also want to reviveMassine's SymphonieFantastique.It was extremelytheatricaland each scene was reallya masterpiece choreographic of invention. DANILOVA:I think Rouge et Noir would be wonderfulbecauseall the colors fight. I askedMassineonce whathe meantby that and he said the white represented that's one Russia-you remember, of the best partsAlicia Markovadid. Some of the other colors were fascists. Yes, it reallysuits our time perfectly,now that we all fight betweenus. YOUSKEVITCH: Rougeet Noir, I wasin the whitesectionIn innocence!And I was supposedto be shot at the end of the ballet. I had to go on the shouldersof the boys andthen thereis a firingsquad andI fall all the waydown, andthere'ssupposed be boysin the back to who can catch me and then bringme in front in a pose. But one eveningtherewas no one to catchme. I went on the boys' shouldersand bravelyfaced the firingsquadand died a hero's death. But I hit myself on the floor veryhardbecauseI startedfallingdown and realized there was no one there!

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ANDERSON:Any other revivalcandidates? DANILOVA:Well, I was thinkingalso, whataboutMassine's Jeux d'Enfants?It would be a nice ballet, I think. ANDERSON:What was it like? DANILOVA:Well, it was Jeux d'Enfants, music by Bizetyou know, French.It's about a littlegirland she dreamsaboutall her dolls. It's quite nice and the Mir6 scenerywas very beautiful. Cotillonwouldbe a good reDANIELIAN:And Balanchine's vival. ANDERSON:What was Cotillonlike? ARMOUR:Well, it would certainlybe too quiet. LARKIN: Cotillontoday,the wholeballet. Nobodyremembers he doesn't. But my husbandand I have At least, Mr. Balanchine says stagedthe Hand of Fate pas de deux from Cotillon. It standsalone and audienceslove it: it works. ARMOUR:Yes, it was very unusual,very beautiful. ANDERSON:Now I'd like to open this up to questionsfrom the floor. QUESTION:What were the ballets of BronislavaNijinska like? DANILOVA:I thinkNijinska'sbest workis Les Noces, to the music. And I think a revivalof that would be at any time Stravinsky acceptable. LINDGREN:We did threeNijinskaworksat BalletRussede BachEtude,andSnowMaiden. we MonteCarlo: had ChopinConcerto, DANILOVA:Actually, she was a very capablewoman, very interesting,but difficult to work with, very difficult. QUESTION:Why was Nijinskadifficult to work with? DANILOVA:Well, she was born difficult woman. DANIELIAN:She nevertalkedto you directly.Therewas alwaysa littleman withher. Havingknownher for so long, I still never knew if they were marriedor not.* In any case, there was this man to alwaysnextto herand she'dwhisper him andthenhe wouldtellyou what she said-three languagesin this triangle.And such confusion all the time, you know.
*This was her second husband, Nicholas Singayaevsky.

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Her YOUSKEVITCH: was also a greatdisciplinarian. reShe hearsalswere extremelystrict, and, to add to the difficultyof comand she she munication, washardof hearing sometimes wouldimagine such as peopletalkingwhenthey werenot talking.Yet certainthings, the she would be angrythat they disturbed rehearsal.So all this combinedmadeher a littlebit difficultto cope with. But she was a charming womanin the primeof herlife, I assureyou. She was a wonderful woman. DANILOVA:I remember once in Monte CarloI was working with her and she camein wearingwhitegloves. And I look and I say, She "Bronislavchik, do you wearwhitegloves,whathappened?" why said, "All these people perspire.I don't wantto touch them;they always have perspiration."But I said, "Please take those gloves off becauseI feel I have leprosy, that you are afraidto touch me." ARMOUR:I think I'm the only one herewho actuallyworked in her own companywith her. She was strangein this way:Whenwe eachotherin anywayshewanted wererehearsing, couldbe grabbing we us to do, but as soon as you werenot rehearsing, boys wentto one side of the studioandgirlsto the other.Did theydo thatin the BalletRusse? DANILOVA:No. ARMOUR:This was in her companyI'm talking about. DANIELIAN:Well, she was very religious,and her memoirs just came out and I suggestyou all readthem. They'revery, veryinteresting. LINDGREN:When I readthe book, I couldn'tput thingstogether. I felt the lady who I workedwith couldn'thave beenthe lady who wrote that book. DANILOVA:Oh, but she washighlycultured.I knowthat she for instance,the lettersof Noverre,and she had a beautifulart had, collection. She was an extremelyintelligentwoman. ANDERSON:Ages ago, whenI wasjust starting as a jourout I was asked to interviewNijinska for Dance Magazineand I nalist, with nearlycollapsedwith frightat the prospect.Yet, in conversation I herat herhousein California foundherto be one of the mostcharming and cultivatedwomen I have ever met and it was an inspiration for me to haveknownherfor onlythatshorttime.And thenI'veheard all the storiesthat peopletell of her eccentricities. instance,in one For she went up to a dancerand said, "You'resupposedto be godballet

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Alicia Alonso and Igor Youskevitchin Boris Romanov'sHarlequinadefor the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo.

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of dess, but you look like frog!" And thereare other choice remarks that sort. DANILOVA:She was, what we call in Russia, eccentric! QUESTION:What was touringlike? LINDGREN:We dancedour heartsout in everycommunity, and everybodyalwaysdanced, no matterhow smallthe place or the audience.When some companiesgo to a small town now, the stars don't appear.But in the BalletRussede MonteCarlothe samepeople were on stage every single night and every single matinee and they dancedas hardas they possiblycould, whether they werein New York or Podunk. And I feel very stronglyabout that. City DANILOVA:I thinkthat's whyAmericareceivedsucha good educationin the ballet.The BalletRussedancedthe sameeverywhere, and we broughtall our beautifulsceneryby Picasso, Derain,and Benois. I believe allthe dancers thatin smaller YOUSKEVITCH: felt that cities, with less sophisticated audiences,you had to dancestill harder and betterthan in big cities. Well, of course,we alwaysdancegoodbut you mustmakean extraeffort to carryacrossto an audiencethat is not so skilledin seeingballet. Those audiencesdon't make any exaudicuses. Theyjust see good or bad. In a biggercity, sophisticated ences can say, "Oh, he or she didn't danceso well today. But, since he or she's a good dancer,tomorrowwill probablygo better." But in smallercities, and especiallyin one-nightstands,they stampyou: Are you good or are you bad? So you have to make extra effort. DANILOVA:Since our best philosophers, writers,and poets often come fromsmalltowns, I alwaysthoughtthat, well,maybesome kindof geniusis sittingin the audience tonightand I mustinspirehim, not makehim disappointed. Thatwasmy idea whenI wason tour because to tour was very difficult. ANDERSON:What was a typical day on tour like? DANILOVA:The alarmwent off! LARKIN:I remember groupof men alwaysgoingoff to play a on the train with the musiciansin the other car. And the girls poker sittingin the trainand darningtoe shoes, whichyou are so luckythat you are liberatedfrom today! We spent our lives darningtoe shoes. I'm told that Massinewas capableof gettingpeople up and tryingto teach them partsin a trainstation, or in the trainitself-in any place

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that he could graba humanbeingto workwith. My husbandtells of the time that he rehearsed companydown in the lobby of a hotel the untilpeoplebeganto complainbecauseof the noise at night,andthen he finallytook my husbandup to his room to rehearse.I'm surethat we you've had this experience,Igor, that we workedeveryplace went and our tour was never-ending. did not have apartments New We in York. I knowthat I joinedde Basil'sOriginal BalletRussein 1941and until I retiredwe neverstopped.It was one constanttour and I think, perhaps,that's why to us it didn't matterwherewe were. It YOUSKEVITCH: was nine, ten months out of everyyear we weretouring.Thencamea shortvacation backto touringagain. and The hardestthing was what to do with your laundry. ANDERSON:What did you do with the laundry? YOUSKEVITCH: collected it until we got to the towns We wherewe stayedtwo days. LINDGREN:Do you remember "five-thousandmiler"? the were black shirtsthat didn't have to be cleanedoften and you They could wearthem constantly.We went down to Pennsylvania Station in September afterthe Metropolitan Operaseason. And manyof the musiciansturnedup in a tuxedo, and they'd wearthat tuxedo all season long. All they would do was changetheir shirts. Dancerswould have one suitto wearto parties,andthenthere'dbe theirtour or train suit. DANIELIAN:The trainswereneveron time. Therewereseveralperformances whenwe went from the trainstationto the theatre and the set wouldn'tbe up. So people like JamesStarbuck wouldget up in front of the curtainand tell jokes-remember?-until we got into our makeup.Or we'd thaw out-we were alwaysfreezing. YOUSKEVITCH: scenerywould arrivelate and we often The openedthe curtainandthe audiencecould enjoy seeinghow the stage is set up and how the costumesare broughtout. And so we tried to entertainthe audienceand keep them in their seats. DANIELIAN: And once we dancedon an Oriental They'd rug. laid out an Orientalrug-where was that, do you remember? was It a great Orientalrug laid on the floor. I DANILOVA: remember whentheypolished stagein Pittsthe And duringBeau Danube I fell down threetimes. I just start burgh. wondering,"Am I going to be on the floor all evening?"And I run and-boom!

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I LINDGREN: thinkthe most notablethingabouttouringwas the factthat we weren'tpaidverymuchmoney,so that at hotelseveryelse. had bodyhad a "ghost,"everybody to livewitheverybody Tommy and he said, "Do you and I weretalkingaboutthat at breakfast today when one personused to registerfor a room and take the remember box springs the bed andput themon the floor, so that eventhough off one person would be registeredfor a double bed, four people only wouldbe stayingin that room?" We had to ghost from coast to coast withthe BalletRussede MonteCarlo.We triedto savemoneybecause we were making, I think, $41.50. Yvonne and some of the younger girls reallyhad a very rough time duringthe war becausethey were, I don't think, more than fifteen, sixteenyears of age. QUESTION:It is often said that the most popularprogram of the BalletRussede MonteCarloeverdid consisted SwanLake,Nutand Scheherazade. was that popular? cracker, Why DANIELIAN:It was also known as "ham and eggs." LINDGREN:That was the bulldozer,yeah. DANIELIAN:The popularity the scoreswas so important. of LINDGREN:Those three ballets all had sceneryin them. LARKIN:And it was theatre. DANIELIAN:And full company-everybody danced something. LARKIN:I think it beganin Chicago.We had somethingelse scheduledand it was not sellingwell and the managersuggestedSwan Lake, Nutcracker,and Scheherazade,and immediatelyit was sold out. So you explainit; I don't know. But I knowAnn Barzel[theChithat cago critic]is in the audience[here]and I'm sureshe remembers time. DANIELIAN: likethe opera.If you give TheLove of Three It's it's not going to sell. But Carmenand Aida will sell well. The Kings, ballet's the same way with scoresthat are popular. Mr. Danielianstatedearlier that the BalletRusse QUESTION: was uniquein the fact that it let its artistsgrow and maturein their roles and that otherballetcompanies today don't do that. Do you anthat attitudereturning,so that artistscan have a chanceto ticipate grow and mature?Why do these other companiesnot allow that to happen? DANIELIAN:I don't knowwhythey don't allowit to happen. But I thinkthat I liketo see a mananda womandance.I love children,

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I love teachingchildren. thereis something aboutseeing But marvelous a mature mananda mature woman.He putshishandout andthe prima ballerinatakes it in a way you can't get at swingyseventeen.But I'd and like to pay a littletributenow, sinceI've got this microphone I'm to hold it. I'm goingto talk aboutmyself,sinceit has to do with going Igor Youskevitch.I don't know what would have happenedto my careerif Igor hadn'tjoined the Navy. I've a funnyfeelingI probably wouldn'thave had much of a career,and so I have to thank him for that-taking care of our country, but giving me an opportunity. YOUSKEVITCH: this is actuallyhow peoplego aheadin But to any company.Some stay, some leave and give opportunity others, or unwillingly.In any career,you know, a certainbreakis willingly the chanceyou need. But, actually,in Danielian's case, he wouldhave gotten his chance, even if I were still in the company. ARMOUR:I'd like to tell you of an incidentlike that, too, about gettingyour break,and Igor is involvedbecausethis was back when we were in Leon Woizikovsky'scompany.We weretouringin Europeand dancingin Berlinand AndreEglevskyand you and I had all learned de Fortunately Spectre la Rose, and I wasIgor'sunderstudy. for me, he hurthis knee or somethingand I was ableto go on and do my first Spectrede la Rose. Thank you. I YOUSKEVITCH: wouldn't hurt my knee, especially! LINDGREN:I thinkone of the reasonsfor this whole eventis to pay homageto Mr. Youskevitch,and certainlyhe was a man who dancers almosttwo generations youngAmerican-Canadian of inspired If we haveour Baryshthe by representing epitomeof classical dancing. nikovand Martins Bujonestoday, we had a Mr. Youskevitch and during the 1940sand 1950s,and if you neversaw him dance-well, I'm sorryfor you; he was a brilliantdancer.I'm proudthat I was around when he was dancing. ANDERSON:I'm afraidour time is up, althoughI'd love to hearthesepeopletalkon andon. The BalletsRussescompanies always saidthat they wereone big family,andit's a familyI'm veryhappyto have gotten to know. The editors wish to thank Igor Youskevitchfor assistancewith the photographs,which are from his collection.