Live Wire - WMUR Ernie Willis Trial Day 3

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Day 3 Of Ernest Willis Trial

News 9's Amy Coveno Providing Updates From Court
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Pastor Charles Phelps will be back on the stand this morning

by Kevin Clay/Staff at Wednesday, May 25, 2011 08:15:38
The trial is expected to continue at 10 a.m. this morning

by Kevin Clay/Staff at Wednesday, May 25, 2011 09:17:41
Good Morning. Courtroom 1 is open. 30 minutes ago the attorneys for both sides and the defendant Ernest Willis field into court and started to get settled. Then the entire party departed and it appears a conference is underway, perhaps last minute motions to present to the judge, we're not certain.
by Amy Coveno / WMUR Staff at Wednesday, May 25, 2011 10:21:12
Courtroom one is full this morning. Tina Anderson's brother and many supporters are here but Tina herself is not in the courtroom.
Amy, how does Tom look today and is Jocelyn in the courtroom?
by Melanie Blair at Wednesday, May 25, 2011 10:23:21
Good Morning Melanie. Tom is seated next to Jocelyn and
http://livewire.wmur.com/Event/Day_3_Of_Ernest_Willis_Trial?Page=0[6/28/2011 4:07:05 AM]
both seem to be in a good frame of mind this morning.

It appears we are about to begin. Both legal teams just returned to the courtroom. Ernest Willis is at his customary seat at the defense table and Pastor Phelps is seated in the witness stand. Judge Smukler and jury have to arrive.
We're told Tina Anderson will remain out of the courtroom until Pastor Phelps is through testifying.
The jury and the judge have just arrived. Judge Smukler is asking the jury about their inadvertant media exposure...none raises their hand to acknowledge any media exposure to this case.
Pastor Phelps is reminded he is under oath. The state is continuing their direct examination regarding the church discipline that occurred in front of the congregation.
Again, Pastor Phelps is speaking directly to the jury and referring to his notes from 1997 regarding what he said to the congregation during the 'church discipline' when Tina Anderson and Ernie Willis admitted 'sins' before the congregation.
Pastor Phelps says these incidents were presented as Tina Dooley seeking forgiveness for allowing a compromising situation. Ernie Willis apologized for going outside his marriage.
Pastor Phelps is now reading Ernie Willis' statement that he made in 1997 about going outside his marital vows aloud to the jury.
by Amy Coveno / WMUR Staff edited by Kirk Enstrom/Staff at Wednesday, May 25, 2011 10:37:30
Defense asks to approach the bench at the conclusion of the letter being read.
We are taking a brief recess. It appears the defense has some objection to the reading of Ernie Willis' statement to the congregation in 1997 aloud to the jury.
The defense team and Ernie Willis just reentered the courtroom. The prosecutor is having a discussion with Donna Brown who represents Ernie Willis. We are still waiting for the judge and jury to return.
Judge Smukler has returned to the bench and is conferencing with the attorneys.
After a lengthy bench conference it appears the trial is about to get underway.
The Judge is now addressing the jury. Reference the testimony that was read aloud - the judge is referring to Ernie Willis' fifth amendment rights- whereas he can or cannot speak in court during this trial- the decision is his. His decision either way is not to be construed as an admission of guilt, according to Judge Smukler. The judge is asking jurors if they have difficulty following that instruction to please raise their hand...none do.
Now the state is asking Pastor Phelps for the statement that "Tina was made to read." The Pastor says he read the statement aloud and he is now reading the statement to the jury.
'It's with a heavy heart that I come before you to seek your forgiveness as I have already asked forgiveness of the Lord, that in the past couple of months I have been in compromising situations..."
Pastor Phelps is now testifying about the length of time that Tina stayed in their home. The debate is whether it's one night or longer.
State: Tina told you she didn't understand why she was going before the congregation in that service when you read that statement. Pastor: She crafted the letter. Tina clearly understood what the service was about. State: in your dayplanner you wrote " Tina having a hard time with guilt"
Pastor: I read to Tina from Deuteronomy 22. The passage is about a maiden in a field and she is accosted by a man, the
maiden screamed and no one was there to help her. Then the passage refers to a maiden in a city who is accosted by a man, she didn't scream. There is the appearance of complicity.
Pastor Phelps says he told Tina we are in a city we want to hear you and help you.
Pastor now reading verbatim from the bible the passage he read aloud to Tina when she was pregnant and 16 years old at the State's request.
Pastor says I was reading this passage to a 16 year old girl who had not been truthful with me but I did not imply that she would be stoned. That's a ridiculous application, said Pastor Phelps.
Now the defense on cross examination of Dr. Phelps. Donna Brown is asking about the report he made to Concord police in 1997. Before he made that report he spoke with both Tina and Ernie Willis.
My notes from Ernie are that he was the aggressor but that she did not protest and he thought it was consensual, Pastor Phelps.
Pastor Phelps, I did not report this as a violent rape if that is what you are asking. Donna Brown: Ernie used the word consensual when he spoke with you? Phelps: that's correct.
Phelps the note I have that Tina told my wife that she was 'passive'.
Phelps: I also called the after hours help line at DCYF but they indicated this was now a police matter.
Phelps: when I first said to Ernie I've heard some dreadful news...Ernie Willis said it's true, I'm responsible, it happened twice.
DB: Is one of the things Tina was dishonest about going to the Bedford Village Inn on her 16th Birthday? Phelps: Tina was very dishonest with me. State: Objection, non responsive. Sustained.
DB: You knew Willis had gone to Bedford Village Inn on her 16th birthday because he told you that he knew she was 15 because he took her to the restaurant on her 16th birthday.
DB: You knew there were receipts from BVI for Tina's 16th birthday. Pastor: yes.
Phelps: Tina said she'd seen him once and it never happened again and she reiterated that over and over again. Phelps: I figured Ernie had far more to lose than Tina by being honest, so I figured Tina was being dishonest.
Phelps: Tina told my wife, this happened once and it never happened again.
Phelps says Tina lied about Phelps' wife asking her if she 'liked it'. Pastor, begins to cry and says it's entirely out of the character of his loving wife.
Phelps says he totally expected there would be an arrest. that was why there was a church meeting but it was not a discipline meeting.
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Pastor Phelps is weeping on the stand, again...about his responsibility as a minister.


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A handful of jurors are looking intently at the Pastor as he testifies. Several are looking only at Donna Brown during cross.
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Phelps: the Bible says if someone comes to you and says will you forgive, than you will forgive them. "Forgive and Forget' is a philosophy that is contrary to everything I know. I never said forgive and forget.
Now Wayne Coull on re direct. Phelps: Tina lied to me. She was in a relationship with a married man. They went to the Bedford Village Inn and lied to me about, Ernie was immediately honest with me.
Wayne Coull: you're posing questions to a child without any training. Confrontational questions to the victim of a crime and you don't have any training, do you? Phelps: I have extensive training but not as a social worker or as a police officer.
Phelps: I'm finishing my answer, please. Prosecutor is asking Phelps if he regretted putting Tina in front of the congregation. Phelps: only because I saw that turn a young girl away from her church. Phelps: police never called me.
Phelps is excused from the stand. The state is now preparing to call their next witness.
Paul Gagnon is now on the stand. He was a Concord Police Officer for 22.5 years.
State is asking Gagnon about his role on the PD in 1997. He was an investigator with youth services then.
Gagnon is testifying about his call to Pastor Phelps regarding the report on the Tina Anderson incident. Gagnon says Pastor Phelps never called him back. Gagnon says he contacted Tina Anderson's mother, Christina Leaf.
Gagnon says Christina Leaf would answer the questions but she wasn't giving a lot of information.
Tina Anderson is now back in the courtroom, with her brother by her side.
Brooksley Belanger on cross examination of former officer Gagnon. One question: Did Phelps talk with Lt. Cross? Yes. Did Phelps report to DCYF? yes. no further questions.
We are now breaking for lunch. Court will reconvene at 1:15.

The state plans to rest their case today. And We're told Ernie Willis will most probably take the stand this afternoon.
We are back inside Courtroom 1. The state is getting organized for their next witness. Detective Chris De Angelis from the Concord PD who re opened this investigation in 2010 will take the stand next.
Of note: In pre-trial motions the defense moved that the word 'cult' and 'survivor' be banned during the trial. They were successful in their motion- although the gallery is filled with people who claim to be 'survivors' of abuse within the church and refer to the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church as a cult.
by Amy Coveno / WMUR Staff at Wednesday, May 25, 2011
13:13:36
Court was expected to reconvene at 1:15 but we are still waiting for the defense team, the judge and the jury to arrive.
The defense team is now presenting a motion to the judge outside the purview of the jury regarding a recording the state wants to play for the jury to hear.
The defense is asking the judge to edit out parts of the recording the state intends to play. The state vigorously objects to their request saying it will be exceedingly difficult to do at this juncture and the defense should have raised this concern during pre trial motions...the state says the defense has had plenty of time to review the disc and make this request before now.
The defense says this is an important issue and says its worth taking a couple of hours to edit the disc or even recess for the day.
The judge is becoming impatient and says he will not delay the trial. The defense is arguing that a segment of the recording is NOT neutral. The judge says it is not that prejudicial and he is not delaying this trial. The judge says he is bending over backwards to accommodate the defense in the regard.
The defense is arguing that if they mute the recording in front of the jury , the jury will presume that they are hiding something that Willis said when in fact the comment they are looking to eliminate is not something Willis said at all. Brown says within the context of what Phelps said the comment that is on the recording is highly prejudicial. The judge is overruling the motion. And the defense is declining to have the recording muted. Defense says they NEVER felt the statement is acceptable.
The jury is now in their places. Det. Chris De Angelis is now being sworn in.
He works for Concord PD- he's been there 11 years. He is assigned to youth services division.
Det. testifies that Jocelyn Zichterman contacted the department with new information about the Tina Dooley case from 1997.
Det. De Angelis says he then tried to contact Tina Anderson ( nee Dooley) in Arizona. He says he called he and she was not expecting the call.
Tina Anderson is back in the courtroom.. Jocelyn Zichterman and her brother, Tom, are on either side of her.
Detective says Tina sent him adoption documents from Bethany Christian Services out of Colorado. Det. also says he spoke with the Barnharts and others close to this case.
Detective says the current Pastor Fuller provided him with notes left by Pastor Phelps about the case.
Detective says he reached out to Ernest Willis in May 2010 to discuss the case. He agreed to talk with him at the Concord PD...another detective sat in on the interview, it was recorded.
Detective says he talked with him about Tina and the allegation that he fathered her child.
The state is now setting up a recorder to play a disc from that interview for the jury to hear. This is the recording that the defense fought to have edited but the judge overruled the motion.
The jury is now hearing the recorded interview between Ernie Willis and the Concord detectives that was conducted in May 2010.
Det: there doesn't seem to be a lot of question that this young girl who was 15 became pregnant and her child was given up for adoption. Willis says he doesn't remember signing any documents so that the child could be given up for adoption- in the recording.
Detective says in recording "I've got one side of the story and I'm just trying to get your side"
Det. says his understanding is that the state of Colorado would need Ernie's permission as well as Tina's permission for this adoption to go through.
Det: Is there any doubt in your mind that this child is your child? Ernie: no. ( this is recorded in May 2010)
DCYF was involved in this investigation said Det. De Angelis. Charles Phelps reported this incident to DCYF. "Tina and suspect admit that they had sexual intercourse. There was no force involved" from Pastor Phelps report to DCYF.
Ernie Willis said Tina babysat for his family and he knew her and her family through the church. Ernie in recording denies giving Tina driving lessons, he says he doesn't recall that.
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Today is day 3 of the trial of Ernest Willis, who is accused of raping and impregnating a 15-year-old fellow church member in 1997. Live Updates Day 1: Willis Trial Live Updates Day 2: Willis Trial
by Kevin Clay/Staff May 25 at 7:03 AM Kevin Clay/Staff Amy Coveno / WMUR Reporter
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Tina is listening to this recording and shaking her head and closing her eyes.
by Amy Coveno / WMUR Reporter May 25 at 12:53 PM
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Det. asks Willis how the relationship transpired. Willis says he doesn't have any details. It was so long ago and it was time in my life when I had a lot of turbulent things. My last parent passed away. I got laid off. I was 39 years old.\
Willis says it happened one time at her residence. Willis says she lived in Concord in an individual living unit. Willis says her mother was not home. He says they went they together. Willis says it happened in her bedroom, one time.
Tina is shaking her head and getting comfort from those around her during the recording being played.
Detective says there are two reports and the second report alleges a different version of events. Detective says the second report alleges physical force by you on Tina. She is alleging a rape not a statutory. She is alleging a forcible rape.
Det. says the first incident happened during a driving lesson. The second time she says it happened at her mother's apartment on the couch. Ernie says maybe she's lying to get herself off the hook because it was consensual.
http://livewire.wmur.com/Event/Day_3_Of_Ernest_Willis_Trial?Page=2[11/28/2011 6:50:19 PM]
Ernie Willis is asking what prompted this to be reopened. He asks did someone come forward with a complaint? Det. says somebody who had enough exposure to the situation came forward.
Detective what possible motive would Tina have to lie? She is not the one who came forward. We sought her out. Ok? When we seek somebody out we tend not to get a false report from somebody.
Willis is asking if she referred back to her 1997 report.

Willis in recording says she is trying pass any responsibility off that is hers.
Willis says it happened one time. That is the truth. He says they went out driving. She drove. He denies any sexual intercourse when they were out driving.
Detective is asking Willis about being in Pastor Phelps house when they talked with her about this. Tina was moved into the Pastor's house following all 'this'. Willis says he isn't sure when they had the discussion with her.
Det. did you ever admit to the pastor that you were the aggressor? Willis: no. Det. so is the Pastor lying? Willis: I don't know. Det. were you the aggressor. Willis: I'm sure I was partly responsible for initiating it, yes.
2nd detective asks how did she go from being a fellow church member to a sexual relationship? Willis: that day she was open to, she had, ahh, was open to getting close, being physical. Det. : she was open to physical contact? Willis: correct. It might have been something mutually said. I need to go now.
That's the end of the recording. Judge asks counsel to approach the bench.
Tina is weeping quietly in her seat. She is leaving the courtroom with her brother.
The judge is instructing the jury that in this interview they just heard. He tells the jury you can consider the answers from Ernie Willis however you wish but in terms of the
questions, there were statements made by the detectives that are NOT to be taken for the truth.
The state has no further questions. But is admitting the recording as evidence. The defense now on cross of Detective De Angelis.
Donna Brown is asking about his interview of Tina Anderson, July 30, 2010.
It was a phone interview and recorded. Brown: during that interview she told you she met Ernie Willis at a restaurant to tell him she was pregnant.
Det. that was Tina's memory, it was around her birthday. Her birthday is August 22. Det. asked if it was possible the restaurant was the Bedford Village Inn. She said that was possible.
Det. Tina recalled that Ernie brought a pregnancy test to her house a few days after dinner at the restaurant.
Det. Date of birth is August 22, 1981 for Tina Anderson ( nee Dooley). The state rests.
The court is in afternoon recess. The jury has left. Now the defense is making a motion to dismiss the aggravated felonious sexual assault charge. Donna Brown in looking at Tina Anderson's statements the state has not proven the force. State Objects. Wayne Coull says the victim talked about physical protestations. Judge says there is one indictment alleging force or physical restraint. The judge is referring to the incident in the home, the 'victim' did say with some definitiveness that she did say no, with respect to the incident in the home. With respect to the incident in the car, the complaining witness said, it was 14 years ago, i believe I said no, or don't. Judge: my question is two fold: if that is the testimony, is there more? If so, what is it? Judge says if the standard is proof beyond a reasonable doubt is that sufficient? State says she was told to get out of the car to switch seats, States says she was pushed, that's a phsysical act. Coull: We have her descriptions of her dress being lifted over her head and talk of a push.
State believes that Tina's statement " I believe I said no, is sufficient."
The judge is now asking Donna Brown: is your position is that insufficient as a matter of law that Tina testified, "I believe I said no."
We're told that it's 'typical' for the defense to have charges dismissed after the state rests their case. In this case, the judge is taking under advisement whether Tina's statement "I believe I said , no" to the incident in the car rising to the legal threshold of saying 'no' "by speech or conduct".
Rebecca Hunter lives in Salisbury NH. She is being sworn in as the first witness for the defense. She has two bachelor's degrees and is a certified nurse midwife, she is not currently certified to practice in NH. In 1997 she worked for the Hitchcock Clinic in Concord.
Rebecca Hunter is referencing medical notes she made on Rebecca Dooley in 1997.
The midwife states she is a mandatory reporter for sex abuse but never has made a report of sex abuse to the state. Hunter is reading from her report, that states she came for an OB visit but was leaving for Colorado to have the baby.
Rebecca Hunter says Tina did not mention having sex more than once according to her report.
The state on cross.

Rebecca Hunter is excused. The defense calls Ernest Willis to the stand.
Ernest Willis is now 52 years old. He states he was 39 years old. He has an MBA. He's been an engineer, a realtor, a financial advisor and in sales over the course of his career. Ernie states he and Tammy Willis divorced four years ago. He has four children, two are grown and married. 26, 23, 14 and 11 are the ages of his children.
Ernie says he was a member of the Trinity Baptist Church in 1997. He says they attended several services each week. He says his oldest children were involved in the youth ministry as well. Ernie says he was an usher in the church. An usher is someone helps to seat people coming to the service.
Ernie says he knew the Leaf Dooley family in 1997. That
would be Tina, yes, he says. Tina Anderson is not int he courtroom for this testimony.
Ernie says Tina would babysit a couple of times each week when they were busy and needed help.
DB: In 1997 did you have sexual contact with Tina Anderson. He says, yes on two occasions. The first occasion was when we were driving in my car. We were returning to her residence and I inappropriately touched her knee, I brushed her hair back and touched her genital area as well. did you have sexual intercourse with Tina, no I did not.
The second occasion we were doing driving lessons as well. I asked her if she would like to join me in sexual intercourse. She said yes. We went into her home, upstairs to her bedroom. She removed her clothing, I removed my clothing and we got into her bedc.
DB: Did either time did Tina say no? Ernie: she did not. She did not to discourage me either time. There was nothing indicating to me that she did not like the approach, if she did I would have stopped and not gone any further.
Ernie says he did not use birth control. DB: There are four indictments in this case. Ernie Willis says the chart helped him that Donna used in her opening statements.
Willis is now testifying that he invited her out to dinner for her 16th birthday, he says that's a big deal for most 'kids' and he wanted to treat her for her birthday. Willis states she did not tell him she was pregnant at that time. They went to the Bedford Village Inn, Willis says he picked her up at her home.
Willis says he found out Tina was pregnant at the end of September.
Willis says she called him and told him she was pregnant.
Willis says he was shocked and surprised. Willis says he offered to purchase a pregnancy test and bring it to her , she agreed.
What I mean by 'consensual' is that she appeared to enjoy it. She appeared that she wanted it to happen. There was no
defensiveness on her part. Not by voice or by her physicality did she seem that she did not want this to occur.
I look back now and I can't believe I let that occur. It was selfish and I was overcome by my emotions. It hurt her and her family and so many other people and it never occurred to me at that time.
Willis is now identifying the indictment that he plead guilty to- the felonious sexual assault because she was 15 years old during the time he had sex with Tina Anderson. Willis states he has no plea bargain or deal. Willis says he plead guilty to the single charge because it was true. The other four indictments before the jury, Willis, says they are not true.
The state on cross. Counsel now having a bench conference.

State: You know there's a baby that's why you plead. Willis: I plead because it's a true charge, that's what happened.
State: How do you 'build up' to touch a 15 year old's genitals. Did you hand ever touch her skin on her vagina? Willis: yes. Her clothes were not off. State: what is it in your mind that make you think a 15 year old wants you to touch her under her clothing. Willis: it built up over time. We talked about movies, current events, stuff like that.
Willis: I am very sorry for what I did and how it impacted Tina's life, her husband's life, her mother's life, the lives of my family members as well. She should not be held responsible for saying no. I was the adult. I lost sense of my place. I'm telling the truth when I say there was one occurrence of sexual intercourse.
Court is recessed for the day. The judge is asking the jury to arrive by 10:15 for a 10:30 start. Ernie Willis will resume his place on the witness stand. We are signing off now to prepare for our coverage on WMUR-TV at 5 and 6.
Thanks for joining everyone and tune into News 9 to see video and Amy's report on today's testimony.
by Kevin Clay/Staff May 25 at 3:05 PM
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Day 3 Of Ernest Willis Trial

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Pastor Charles Phelps will be back on the stand this morning

The trial is expected to continue at 10 a.m. this morning

Good Morning Melanie. Tom is seated next to Jocelyn and

http://livewire.wmur.com/Event/Day_3_Of_Ernest_Willis_Trial?Page=0[6/28/2011 4:07:05 AM]

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both seem to be in a good frame of mind this morning.

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Live Wire | Day 3 Of Ernest Willis Trial | Liveblog live blogging

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Day 3 Of Ernest Willis Trial

Pastor Phelps is weeping on the stand, again...about his responsibility as a minister.

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We are now breaking for lunch. Court will reconvene at 1:15.

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Willis is asking if she referred back to her 1997 report.

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The state on cross.

Ernie says he knew the Leaf Dooley family in 1997. That

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The state on cross. Counsel now having a bench conference.

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