Guest Post [#3]: Lust & Decency

Hi Readers, Back in Late October, Nas proposed a series of articles to investigate why is it that society often mistreats and disrespects women, though they are our mothers, wives, and daughters. I think this is a great idea and hopefully will bear some good fruit that everybody can learn from. I had a few ideas of my own that I wanted to contribute to the discussion, so I reserved a spot on Nas' list, and well, here I am. I'd like to thank you all for the opportunity to speak my mind here. I haven't read any of the other articles that Nas will post as of the time of this writing, but my guess is that most of the readers, including myself, will agree with their ideas and the conclusions that they reach. They will bring to light important moral problems that we must face as a society, and they will propose solutions to the problems. Everyone, including myself, will probably agree with them. This may not be the case for this article, as I anticipate a divided readership on my conclusion. I'd like to simply state in advance that there is no disrespect intended to anyone here. There have been many excellent articles written on this blog and others that speak of the many injustices and immoralities that are subjected upon people, and women in particular. They range from the 'adult' material where women are objectified for the viewers to lust after, or in ordinary society where men and women 'check out' or talk about members of the opposite gender in indecent ways. Apart from the immorality of these actions in themselves, this leads people to a mentality where they judge others based on physical looks rather than their moral character. Just a few weeks ago, I was discussing home-schooling with one of my friends. During the conversation, he mentioned a girl he knew who was home-schooled from K-12, and he remarked to me that she was a loser. When I asked him why, I was taken aback when he declared it was because she did not shave her legs. Most of us here agree that such behavior is immoral, and extremely disrespectful, to put it mildly. Even if the other person consents and is a willing participant to be thought of in such a manner, we understand that it is wrong to treat someone's daughter in such a way. It's my impression that most of us here believe this regardless of our religion or belief system. Some of us are Muslims, and so we believe that we are commanded to 'lower our gaze' to not disrespect someone and to keep our minds clean. Most readers here who are Christian,
Source: http://realities-forgotten.blogspot.com/2012/01/guest-post-lust-decency.html

Jewish, non-religious, etc., probably believe generally the same thing for the same or similar reasons. But what I disagree with is the idea that once two people are married, many of the rules of decency obeyed outside it suddenly disappear. I don't mean rape in marriage, or one or the other member being pressured to engage in behavior which they are not comfortable with it, which most everyone agrees is wrong. What I mean is that it is common belief that once two people are married, it is acceptable for them to engage in sexual behavior or thinking which outside of it is considered wrong. As an example, it is considered indecent and unacceptable to ogle at indecent pictures on the internet or at people who are walking by for one's own pleasure. However, within the bounds of marriage, it is perfectly acceptable for a husband and wife to view each other in such a manner. It is my conclusion that this behavior and thinking is just as wrong within marriage as it is outside it. A husband and wife engage in intimate behavior for different reasons, and I want to clarify what exactly I believe is wrong. People do the intimate things they do, such as touch, look at, etc either out of love for the other person or out of some type of physical lust. I consider the latter to be the immoral one, but the former to be okay, and I'd like to explain why. When a person looks at or thinks about indecent material on the internet or in other ways, we find this to be objectionable for a two particular reasons. First, because it is disrespectful. This is exactly why, when people speak of the spread of pornography, they speak of the 'objectifying' of women. Women (and men as well), are not objects so that anyone can look at them to satisfy their desires. If someone were to suggest that they look at pornography or 'check out' women in a respectful way, we would say they were crazy. Respect and lust don't go together at all, in fact they are the opposites. This is apparent to us in our everyday life. Suppose a group of people are telling dirty jokes, and then a nun sits down beside them. Most people would instantly stop, because society still respects particular groups of people, such as nuns, as noble people. If we meet a person who we respect deeply due to their high character and morals, it makes no sense look at them with lust at the same time. If we were to do that, it would be a case of cognitive dissonance. Yet, why should there be an exception carved out of this rule for two people who are married? We are supposed to respect the person we marry as the mother of

Source: http://realities-forgotten.blogspot.com/2012/01/guest-post-lust-decency.html

our children (or father for the women). This is not a meaningless position. This person would deserve our respect more than almost any one else in the world, yet we participate with them in certain disrespectful ways that we don't with others. The fact that they consented, or wanted us to behave in such ways with them doesn't change the equation any more than it does with pornography. Actions speak louder than words. We can claim that we [will] respect our husband or wife, but if our actions don't show it, then the claims are meaningless. I believe that most people deep down actually agree, even if they may not realize it. I recall watching one episode of Seinfeld, where one main character has a girlfriend who he deeply respects, as she is always charitable and helping anyone in need that she can find. The main character tells his friend that he cannot even imagine her doing or thinking about anything sexual, as she is so good. "No depravity!" he says of her. Now, if we asked the writer who wrote this episode if he thought it was disrespectful to look at the person you're married to, or in love with or whatever with lust, he would probably say it was all okay like most people, but he's already revealed how he really thinks deep down. I once saw a movie where Robert DeNiro played a mob boss who goes to see a psychologist. Now, this mob boss is married, but he has a girlfriend on the side. He is asked by the doctor why, and he replies that there are certain things he cannot do with his wife. When asked why not, he replies, "Hey, that's the mouth she kisses my kids goodnight with! What are you, crazy?" He recognizes that there are certain things he can't do with his wife because he respects her. In fact I would guess that most couples have some line in the sand that they will not cross with their spouse, some particular behavior that they do not want to see them perform, just like in the example. But if want to be consistent, then we should not want to perform any such behaviors, or engage in any such thoughts, not just those beyond a certain arbitrary point. I don't believe moderation is a virtue, as it is a synonym for inconsistency. No one advocates moderation in murder, or child molestation. There is certainly a big difference between murdering millions of people like the Nazis did and just five or six. But difference is only a matter of degree, not a difference in kind, and the same argument applies here. Second, we find such thoughts themselves to be vulgar or disgusting. When a wife doesn't want her husband to watch pornography, or to lower his gaze when looking at other women, the complaint she has is not simply one of jealousy. She is not only complaining that he is paying attention to other women and not to

Source: http://realities-forgotten.blogspot.com/2012/01/guest-post-lust-decency.html

her, but that the actual thoughts that he's having about the other women are themselves filthy or un-clean. The complaint is that there is something actually vulgar or polluting about thinking about people in such a manner, and that it makes him less moral to do so. If this is the case, then surely it is also true if the two people are married. A husband looking at his wife to fulfil his physical desires is just the same as if he were looking at someone on the internet, and if one of those thoughts are unclean or disgusting, then surely the other is as well, as they are the same. I often read where it is encouraged for us to get married so that we can 'lower the gaze'. But this is not lowering the gaze at all, it is simply shifting if from looking at many different people to one particular person. To me this makes no more sense than if one were to advocate only watching pornography on the internet, so that one may 'lower the gaze', and stop having the desire to look at anyone outside the internet. Marriage is obviously a complex thing, and when a married couple are together, they do not only interact with each other with physical lust as their intention, but out of love and many other emotions as well. This is certainly true, and it could be suggested that therefore there is something qualitatively different between watching pornography and interacting with one's husband or wife. But I believe that the same principles still apply. For example, suppose that a person gives charity, but gives it due to two different intentions simultaneously: to show off as well as out of concern for the poor. In this case, we would say that part of this action is right, and part of it is wrong. And the same thing would apply in our case. If a person performs an action both out of lust as well as love, then perhaps part of the action is right, and the other part is wrong. We can simply separate the two parts out. In conclusion, I believe that striving to live a more clean and decent life is something that all of us here aspire to, and that it is a worthy goal which is well worth the extra effort. I believe that the worth of an individual is not the color of their skin, or their gender, or how attractive they are, but is determined by the content of their character. I believe that one particular determinant of our character is how we show respect to others, as well as to ourselves, by abstaining from indecent actions, and I've submitted a few ideas in this article to clarify. I mean no disrespect if you disagree, and I'm hoping to hear from the readers as to your opinions on the matter. Farewell. By Dr. Squirrel http://doctorysquirrel.tumblr.com/

Source: http://realities-forgotten.blogspot.com/2012/01/guest-post-lust-decency.html