1)Frank, the problem is all new Prime Ministers want to cut either taxes or public expenditure. 2)Thank you.

That's what Hacker wants, too. 3)Politicians are like children. 4)You can't just give them what they want. It only encourages them! 5)But let's be clear about this, Humphrey. 6)The entire system hinges on you as Cabinet Secretary controlling the PM 7)and on me as Permanent Secretary at the Treasury controlling the Chancellor. 8)- Right? - Right. 9)And on both of us keeping an agreeable tension between them, mistrust, hostility. 10)Mind you, I think they'd manage that all right even without us. 11)The Chancellor will never forgive the Prime Minister for beating him to Number 10 12)and the Prime Minister will never trust the Chancellor. 13)- One never trusts anyone one has deceived. - Perhaps not. 14_But tax cuts unite them. They get them both votes. 15)Yes, but surely this tax cut is contingent upon the Prime Minister's fantasy 16)about cancelling Trident and switching to conventional forces. 17)Nevertheless, he is giving away 1.5 billion of our money! 18)It's unthinkable, even if only proposals. I had a real job getting the Chancellor to oppose it. 19)How did you do it? 20

I used the one about our needing the money for hospitals, schools and old people. 21 - The kidney machine gambit. - The caring Chancellor 22 - Yes, that one. - It usually works. 23 But would a tax cut matter all that much? It's only 1.5 billion. 24 I agree, it's not much in itself. My worry is about you letting it get through so soon. 25 If I were in your shoes at the Treasury, 26 I'd be much more worried about the state of the economy, low productivity. 27 That's not our fault. 28 It's the British worker - fundamentally lazy, wants something for nothing. 29 The figures for absenteeism are going up and up. Nobody wants to do an honest day's work. 30 - Shocking! I must rush. - Busy afternoon? 31 Yes, indeed. I gather England are 70 for 3. 32 Whoa, whoa! Easy does it, Gerald. 33 Plenty more where that came from. Cheers. To the Civil Service! 34 To the British Tobacco

Group and its chairman. 35 Thank you. 36 Ah! 37 I do love a good afternoon's cricket. 38 You know, you chaps at BTG are national benefactors really. 39 We like to think so. 40 You know, Gerald, I've got a small favour to ask on behalf of the Royal Opera House. 41 Now, as you know, Covent Garden is more or less run from the Cabinet Office. 42 But I'm told that one or more productions are threatened next year, lack of funds. 43 Well, I've got the Minister for Sport coming along this afternoon. 44 I know he wants to twist my arm on behalf of Wimbledon or Brands Hatch or something. 45 Covent Garden... We'll see what we can do. 46 Oh, I don't know where we'd all be without you. 47 Tell me, have you ever invited Peter Thorne? 48 - The Minister of Health? - You always included them. 49

This one's been got at by the anti-smoking lobby. 50 Oh, silly man! 51 Very silly. He hasn't got much clout in Whitehall, has he? 52 None at all. He's just a minister. 53 Good shot! 54 Was he out? 55 Humphrey, this paper says that if we cancel Trident and bring in conscription, 56 we shall have 1.5 billion for tax cuts, and what do I find? 57 - What do you find, Prime Minister? - The Chancellor opposes me. 58 A great chance to be popular with the voters and he says no. Doesn't that surprise you? 59 No. 60 Why doesn't it surprise you? 61 He's advised by the Treasury and they don't believe in giving money back. 62 - It's not theirs. It's the taxpayers'. - That's not the view the Treasury takes. 63 - Not once they've got it. - But if they don't need it? 64

- Sorry? - If they don't need it. 65 - Taxation isn't about what you need. - What is it about? 66 The Treasury doesn't work out what they need to spend and then think how to raise the money. 67 What DOES it do? 68 They pitch for as much as they think they can get away with, then think what to spend it on. 69 If you start giving money back because you don't need it, 70 you're breaking with centuries of tradition. 71 - What would happen to the British Navy? - We still need a navy. 72 ]We have four capital ships, so we need only four admirals and one Admiral of the Fleet. 73 - How many Admirals have we got? - 60. 74 The Treasury's the most powerful department as it controls all the money. 75 If you take away its money, you take away its power, so they resist. 76 - How will the Treasury agree to tax cuts? - Get the Chancellor to agree. 77 - How will the Chancellor agree? - Get the Treasury to agree.

78 - This is impossible. - Yes, Prime Minister, it is impossible. 79 - We must be able to force the Treasury's hand. - Yes, by forcing the Chancellor's hand. 80 - How do I force the Chancellor's hand? - By forcing the Treasury's hand. 81 Can't YOU persuade the Chancellor? He's your Cabinet colleague. 82 That's the point. I need help from somebody who's on my side. 83 The Minister of State at the DHSS is here. 84 - Show him in. Thank you, Humphrey. - Thank you, Prime Minister. 85 - Dr Thorne, Prime Minister. - Peter, come in. 86 Sit down. 87 Now, you wanted to talk to me about...? 88 - Cigarettes. - Ah, yes. 89 - You read my paper? - Yes, absolutely. 90 How did you react? 91 Well, I...wonder if you could summarise it in your own words. 92 Those WERE my own words.

93 Yes, yes, exactly, of course. 94 But the Prime Minister often finds that a brief summary focuses on the salient points. 95 Salient points, precisely. 96 Well, briefly, I'm proposing that the government should take action to eliminate smoking, 97 a complete ban on all cigarette sponsorship and advertising, 98 50 million to be spent on anti-smoking publicity, 99 a ban on smoking in all public places and progressive tax rises over the next five years 100 until a packet of 20 costs about the same as a bottle of whisky. 101 Isn't that rather drastic? 102 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,836 Absolutely. It should reduce smoking by at least 80%, 90% if we're lucky 103 and drive tobacco companies out of business. 104 Yes. Well, Peter, of course, you know I agree with you basically. 105 Smoking should be stopped. 106 No question. And we will stop it in due course.

107 At the appropriate juncture, in the fullness of time. 108 - You mean forget it? - No, absolutely not. 109 But we must be realists. You and I weren't born yesterday. 110 - No, and we didn't die yesterday. - No. What? 111 300 people did prematurely as a result of smoking. 112 100,000 deaths a year at least. 113 It's appalling, but you know what the Treasury would say? 114 They'd say that smoking brings in 4 billion a year in revenue. 115 - You can't beat the Treasury. - Not with financial arguments. 116 But this is a moral argument. 117 Yes, but even... 118 Wait a minute. I've got an idea. This could be a way to beat the Treasury. 119 - You mean you'll support me? - You've made your point. 120 We'll give it a try. I'll even read your report. Again! 121

This could be very interesting. Thank you very much indeed. 122 But will you support me? 123 Yeah, well, not publicly. 124 It would undermine my position, undermine the argument if I supported you from the start. 125 I have to be seen as the impartial judge swayed by the force of the argument. 126 Yes, I see that. 127 But off the record, I'd like to see this pushed very hard indeed. 128)Make some speeches on it. Peter, thank you very much indeed. 129 Thank you for your cigarette paper... your paper on cigarettes. 130 - Is this serious? - What do you mean? 131 It's always been the practice 132 to discourage anti-smoking speeches by ministers and not to distribute them. 133 Well, I want Peter's speeches distributed. I want everybody to know. 134 Yes, Prime Minister. Do you think you will win this one? The tobacco lobby is very powerful. 135 Well, some you win, some you lose, Bernard. This one I shall definitely lose.

136 Then why? 137 If you were the Treasury, would you rather do without 1.5 billion in tax cuts 138 or 4 billion in lost tobacco tax revenue? 139 The tax cuts. 140 Exactly. That's what I want and that's what I shall get. 141 - Can Sir Humphrey have a word? - Of course. 142 Yes, come in, please. 143 - Prime Minister... - Humphrey. 144 Did you have an interesting chat with Dr Thorne? 145 00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:11,237 Yes. He proposed the elimination of smoking. 146 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,877 By a campaign of mass hypnosis perhaps! 147 00:10:18,839 --> 00:10:23,961 By raising tobacco taxes sky high and simultaneously banning all advertising. 148 00:10:26,598 --> 00:10:31,197 - I think his position is admirably moral. - Moral perhaps, but extremely silly. 149 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,317 No man in his right mind could

contemplate such a proposal. 150 I'm contemplating it. 151 Yes, of course, Prime Minister. Please don't misunderstand me. 152 It is quite right that you should CONTEMPLATE all proposals that come from your government, 153 but no sane man would ever SUPPORT it. 154 - I'm supporting it. - And quite right too, Prime Minister. 155 The only problem is that the tax on tobacco is a major source of revenue for the government. 156 And a major source of death from diseases. 157 Yes, but no definite causative link has ever been proved, has it? 158 - The statistics... - You can prove anything with statistics. 159 - Even the truth. - Yes... No! 160 It says here, "Smoking-related diseases cost the NHS 165 million a year." 161 Yes, but we've been into that. 162 It has been shown that if those extra 100,000 people had lived to a ripe old age, 163 they would have cost us even more in pensions and social security

164 than they did in medical treatment. 165 So financially speaking, it's unquestionably better 166 that they continue to die at about the present rate. 167 "When cholera killed 30,000 people in 1833, we got the Public Health Act. 168 "When smog killed 2,500 people in 1952, we got the Clean Air Act." 169 A commercial drug kills half a dozen people and we get it withdrawn from sale. 170 Cigarettes kill 100,000 people a year and what do we get? 171 4 billion a year. 172 25,000 jobs in the tobacco industry, a flourishing cigarette export business, 173 helping our balance of trade, 174 250,000 jobs related to tobacco - newsagents, packaging, transport... 175 - These figures are just guesses. - No, they're government st... They're facts. 176 So your statistics are facts and my facts are merely statistics? 177 I'm on your side. I'm merely giving you some arguments you'll encounter. 178

Humphrey, I'm so glad to know we'll have support such as yours. 179 It will be pointed out that the tobacco companies are great sponsors of sport. 180 Where would the BBC sports programmes be if cigarette companies couldn't advert... 181 couldn't SPONSOR the events that they televise? 182 We're talking about 100,000 deaths a year. 183 Yes, but cigarette taxes pay for a third of the cost of the National Health Service. 184 We're saving many more lives than we otherwise could 185 because of those smokers who voluntarily lay down their lives for their friends. 186 Smokers are national benefactors. 187 So long as they live! 188 Not that any definite causal link has ever been proved. 189 It's time for your next Cabinet committee, then the Minister of Sport wants an urgent word. 190 00:13:18,319 --> 00:13:20,786 - What about? - Sponsorship. 191 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,549 Who tipped him off? He's one of the tobacco lobby.

192 00:13:25,759 --> 00:13:28,433 A member of YOUR government? 193 00:13:28,598 --> 00:13:33,514 Yes, he's Minister for Sport. He has a vested interest. He's also an MP for Nottingham. 194 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,147 Did you tell him? How did he know? 195 00:13:36,319 --> 00:13:38,833 The grapevine perhaps. Prime Minister... 196 00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:42,394 Tell the minister I'll see him at 2.30. 197 00:13:42,558 --> 00:13:47,031 - With pleasure, Prime Minister. - Not with pleasure, but I'll see him anyway. 198 00:13:48,558 --> 00:13:51,027 The Minister for Sport, Prime Minister. 199 00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:53,794 Oh, Leslie, my dear fellow. Hi. 200 00:13:56,279 --> 00:13:58,746 Do you mind if I smoke? 201 00:14:00,478 --> 00:14:02,993 Prime Minister, it's about the rumour 202 00:14:03,158 --> 00:14:07,232 that you intend to make a personal attack on the tobacco industry. 203 00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:09,993 - I hadn't heard that rumour. - It's not true? 204 00:14:10,158 --> 00:14:13,197

The Minister for Health is considering the matter. 205 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,748 There's no smoke without fire. 206 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,991 You'd be consulted. As Minister for Sport, you have an interest. 207 00:14:20,199 --> 00:14:22,190 Never mind sport. 208 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:28,275 There are marginal seats in Bristol, Nottingham, Glasgow, Basildon and Northern Ireland, 209 00:14:28,438 --> 00:14:30,634 all with tobacco workers. 210 00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:35,076 I've got 4,000 tobacco workers in my constituency. What about my seat? 211 00:14:38,279 --> 00:14:40,395 What about your lungs? 212 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,911 My lungs are fine. 213 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,871 He doesn't breathe through his seat. 214 00:14:47,399 --> 00:14:49,993 Oh, your seat, I see, I'm sorry. 215 00:14:50,158 --> 00:14:54,790 Thank you, Bernard. I see the difficulty, but if something is right for the country, 216 00:14:54,961 --> 00:14:57,428 surely the government must pursue it.

217 00:14:57,598 --> 00:15:02,389 The government must do what's right, but not if it affects marginal constituencies. 218 00:15:02,558 --> 00:15:05,312 - There is a limit. - No decision has been taken. 219 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:08,192 For the good of the party, you can't do this. 220 00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:12,394 Weren't you a paid consultant to the British Tobacco Group? 221 00:15:13,158 --> 00:15:17,790 Of course, the fact that the BTG did pay me a small retainer, 222 00:15:17,961 --> 00:15:20,348 it's totally beside the point. 223 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:26,036 They're a very generous corporation with a strong sense of responsibility to the community. 224 00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:28,794 Look at all the money they give to sport! 225 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,466 They just do it to sell more cigarettes. 226 00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:34,473 No, they do it as a service to the community. 227 00:15:34,679 --> 00:15:40,312 Oh, that's all right, then. They can go on giving the money anonymously if they like. 228

00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:42,987 Well, I'm sure they'd be happy to, 229 00:15:43,158 --> 00:15:47,630 provided they could publicise the fact that they were doing it anonymously. 230 00:15:47,799 --> 00:15:52,714 Is it true that Peter Thorne is also trying to change the government health warning? 231 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,397 Is it? 232 00:15:54,558 --> 00:16:00,031 He's proposing something like "Dying of lung cancer can seriously damage your health". 233 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,230 It is not true! 234 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:04,866 If we do nothing, in the next ten years, 235 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,190 in this country we'll have one million premature deaths. 236 00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:10,866 Yes, but evenly spread. 237 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,754 Not just in marginal constituencies. 238 00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:20,313 Listen, Jim, there is no conclusive proof of any causal link 239 00:16:20,478 --> 00:16:22,629 between smoking and... 240 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,107

We at the DHSS are profoundly worried about smoking. 241 00:16:30,319 --> 00:16:34,790 And we agree it's our duty to help the Prime Minister achieve his objective, 242 00:16:34,961 --> 00:16:39,350 but with a third of the voters as smokers, I can't raise taxes too high. 243 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:45,197 The Chancellor won't commit electoral suicide and the inflationary effect is considerable. 244 00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:47,833 There is a moral principle involved. 245 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,156 Moral principle, yes. 246 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:56,036 We understand the PM's concern. In fact, we earnestly believe in the moral principle. 247 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,312 But where 4 billion of revenue is at stake, 248 00:17:00,478 --> 00:17:03,471 I think we should have to consider very carefully 249 00:17:03,639 --> 00:17:06,153 whether we have the right to indulge ourselves 250 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,471 in the rather selfish luxury of pursuing moral principles. 251 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,755 Where would the arts be without tobacco

sponsorship? At the mercy of the Arts Council. 252 00:17:15,921 --> 00:17:21,677 Exactly. Then those silly pressure groups and fanatics like the Royal College of Physicians! 253 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,278 Fanatics! 254 00:17:23,439 --> 00:17:26,432 They want the government to have a policy on the matter. 255 00:17:26,639 --> 00:17:29,631 It would be different if the government were a team, 256 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,269 but in fact they're a loose confederation of warring tribes. 257 00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:40,470 If only the PM could meet the tobacco people, he could see what really nice chaps they were. 258 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,796 And genuinely concerned about the health risks. 259 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,756 There can't be anything wrong with them. BTG have an ex-Permanent Secretary on their board. 260 00:17:49,961 --> 00:17:53,951 - And could well have more. - In the fullness of time. 261 00:17:54,961 --> 00:17:59,192 I think we ought to raise some questions about your minister, Ian. 262 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:03,238 What does he know about the subject?

Peter Thorne is only a doctor. 263 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,913 His sole purpose is keeping people alive! 264 00:18:06,121 --> 00:18:08,112 Must be biased. 265 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:12,750 Seeing your patients die must emotionally distort your judgement. 266 00:18:12,921 --> 00:18:17,675 It's very understandable, but a great handicap to cool decision-taking. 267 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,157 Very true, but can we find something a bit stronger? 268 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:25,750 Frank, I think the crucial argument is that we're living in a free country. 269 00:18:25,921 --> 00:18:28,433 We must be free to make our own decisions. 270 00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:32,592 Government shouldn't be a nursemaid. We don't want the nanny state. 271 00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:34,113 - Very good. - Excellent. 272 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,430 The only problem is that is also the argument 273 00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:41,354 for legalising the sale of marijuana, heroin, arsenic and gelignite.

274 00:18:41,558 --> 00:18:45,189 Maybe that's a good idea if we put a big enough tax on them. 275 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,313 - Politically difficult. - Pity. 276 00:18:48,519 --> 00:18:49,999 Yes. 277 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,753 Got it! 278 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,238 When the Prime Minister was Minister for Administrative Affairs, 279 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,837 I used to get him to accompany me on regular visits to Lord's, Wimbledon and Glyndebourne 280 00:19:04,041 --> 00:19:06,235 as a guest of BTG, 281 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,680 so he's thoroughly implicated in receiving hospitality worth hundreds, 282 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,229 possibly thousands from them. 283 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,314 Now, if that were to leak... shocking though a leak would be... 284 00:19:19,479 --> 00:19:22,392 - Oh, shocking. - Shocking. 285 00:19:23,121 --> 00:19:26,715 It'd be profoundly embarrassing

for the Prime Minister. 286 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,712 I can't think why I didn't think of it before. 287 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,872 Nor can I. 288 00:19:35,921 --> 00:19:38,389 - Well, Bernard. - Well, Prime Minister. 289 00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:41,159 Very well. Things are going very well indeed. 290 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,351 Oh, good. 291 00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:46,512 I've got the Treasury on the run and the Chancellor. 292 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,148 Is that good? He's in your own government. 293 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,349 Of course it's good. They've got to learn to come to heel and learn to co-operate. 294 00:19:54,558 --> 00:19:58,599 - What do you mean, co-operate? - I mean obey my commands! 295 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,278 I see. 296 00:20:00,479 --> 00:20:03,996 That's what "co-operate" means when you're Prime Minister. 297

00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:08,791 Why are these tax cuts in your interest? It's your government too. 298 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,791 Bernard, it's simple. Cutting taxes by 1.5 billion is going to win us masses of votes. 299 00:20:13,961 --> 00:20:18,829 My ministers are interested in getting money for their departments, not in supporting me. 300 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,787 I'm using my support for Peter Thorne as leverage on the Treasury. 301 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,720 - Your loyal support? - Precisely. 302 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,314 In order to get THEIR loyal support. 303 00:20:28,479 --> 00:20:32,758 After you get the tax cut, you will withdraw your support from Peter Thorne? 304 00:20:32,961 --> 00:20:36,191 Bernard, how can you be so cynical? 305 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,032 I shall simply rearrange my priorities. 306 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,795 Sir Humphrey's waiting to see you outside. 307 00:20:41,961 --> 00:20:44,110 Send him in at once. 308 00:20:44,279 --> 00:20:48,273 Yes, Prime Minister. Your word is my co-operation.

309 00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:55,509 - Humphrey! - Prime Minister. 310 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,639 - Everything all right? - Everything is very far from all right. 311 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,354 - What's the trouble? - Your anti-smoking legislation. 312 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:04,951 What about it? 313 00:21:05,121 --> 00:21:08,157 Notwithstanding the fact that your proposal 314 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,996 could encompass certain concomitant benefits of a peripheral relevance, 315 00:21:12,159 --> 00:21:16,153 there is a countervailing consideration of infinitely superior magnitude, 316 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,198 involving your personal complicity and corroborative malfeasance, 317 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:25,354 with the consequence that the taint and stigma of your former associations and diversions 318 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:29,273 could irredeemably and irretrievably invalidate your position 319 00:21:29,439 --> 00:21:34,229 and culminate in public revelations and recriminations of a profoundly embarrassing

320 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,913 and ultimately indefensible character. 321 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,866 Perhaps I could have a prcis of that. 322 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,909 - There's nicotine on your hands. - What do you mean? 323 00:21:47,121 --> 00:21:50,999 All the hospitality that we've enjoyed at BTG's expense. 324 00:21:51,159 --> 00:21:54,913 Champagne receptions, the best seats at sporting and cultural events. 325 00:21:55,121 --> 00:21:59,351 - What's the problem? - The tobacco companies may tell the press. 326 00:21:59,558 --> 00:22:04,555 So? I've had drinks at the Soviet embassy. That doesn't make me a Russian spy. 327 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,192 Oh... Well... Oh. 328 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,988 - Does it? - Well, no. 329 00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:14,675 Let them do their worst. Anything else? 330 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,197 Well, Prime Minister, there is another vital point to bear in mind. 331 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,874 A lot of eminent people,

influential people 332 00:22:22,041 --> 00:22:25,920 argue that such legislation would be a blow against freedom of choice. 333 00:22:26,121 --> 00:22:31,317 Rubbish! I'm not banning smoking. Does every tax rise represent a blow against freedom? 334 00:22:31,519 --> 00:22:33,988 Well, it depends how big the tax rise is. 335 00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,831 Fascinating! Does 20 pence represent a blow against freedom? 336 00:22:38,041 --> 00:22:42,032 - Prime Minister... - 25 pence? 30 pence? 31? 337 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,273 Is something a blow against freedom simply because it can seriously damage your wealth? 338 00:22:47,479 --> 00:22:52,599 I must warn you of the difficulties. I foresee all sorts of unforeseen problems. 339 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,392 Such as? 340 00:22:54,558 --> 00:22:57,756 If I could foresee them, they wouldn't be unforeseen. 341 00:22:59,921 --> 00:23:02,639 You just said you COULD foresee them. 342 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,791 If we could set up an inter-departmental committee,

343 00:23:05,961 --> 00:23:09,396 a Royal Commission, perhaps a Treasury Committee... 344 00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,592 - Don't talk to me about the Treasury! - Why not? 345 00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:16,753 The Treasury are blocking my plans for a 1.5 billion tax cut. 346 00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:20,875 If only they could be more...flexible. 347 00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:25,759 Oh... 348 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:31,831 Well, I don't think they're fully committed on that other matter yet. 349 00:23:32,041 --> 00:23:33,554 Really? 350 00:23:34,639 --> 00:23:38,269 Absolutely not. Oh, no, I'm sure they could find a way. 351 00:23:38,479 --> 00:23:40,470 Could they? 352 00:23:40,639 --> 00:23:45,157 The only stumbling block would be if your anti-smoking proposals went through, 353 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,471 they'd be too busy with those to find a way to help with the other cuts. 354 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,753 Well, of course, my anti-smoking

proposals, important though they are, 355 00:23:53,921 --> 00:23:57,470 don't have nearly such a high priority as defence. 356 00:23:58,159 --> 00:23:59,673 Ah. 357 00:24:00,479 --> 00:24:02,948 The Minister of State for Health is here. 358 00:24:03,121 --> 00:24:08,113 Prime Minister, if I might have one or two minutes to make some phone calls. Thank you. 359 00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:10,349 Show him in, Bernard. 360 00:24:11,639 --> 00:24:14,836 - Dr Thorne. - Peter, what can I do for you? 361 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,467 I've just had some very exciting news. 362 00:24:17,639 --> 00:24:22,316 We've got full backing from the BMA and eight top scientific and medical colleges. 363 00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:25,750 Marvellous. 364 00:24:26,479 --> 00:24:29,471 But your legislation can't be put through immediately. 365 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,233 It is announced as government policy within three months, with a White Paper in a year. 366 00:24:35,439 --> 00:24:41,072

Yes, since we spoke, I've encountered a few problems. The Treasury, you know. 367 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,479 - Can't be anything you didn't know already? - Yes. I mean no... Well, yes. 368 00:24:45,639 --> 00:24:48,153 Peter, it's not as simple as you think. 369 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,787 Jim, I really am serious about this. 370 00:24:50,961 --> 00:24:55,476 It's the one really important and worthwhile thing I believe I can do in politics. 371 00:24:55,639 --> 00:24:59,997 If you stall it, I'll have to resign. And say why. 372 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,990 Excuse me, Prime Minister. Could Sir Humphrey see you urgently just for a moment? 373 00:25:05,159 --> 00:25:08,153 - Would you mind waiting outside, Peter? - Of course. 374 00:25:11,439 --> 00:25:13,796 Prime Minister, it's quite all right. 375 00:25:13,961 --> 00:25:19,113 The Treasury have looked at your proposal again and they can encompass your tax cut, 376 00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:22,590 provided no work is needed on the anti-smoking proposal. 377 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,314 That's fine, but there is another complication.

378 00:25:25,479 --> 00:25:27,948 Peter Thorne is going to resign if I drop it, 379 00:25:28,121 --> 00:25:32,634 go to the press and have me condemned by all the doctors and scientists in Britain. 380 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,278 Oh... 381 00:25:34,439 --> 00:25:35,920 Help! 382 00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:41,831 You still have that government vacancy in the Treasury? 383 00:25:42,558 --> 00:25:46,872 You mean...? It's a very big promotion, a very rapid one. 384 00:25:47,081 --> 00:25:49,800 Nevertheless, for a very able minister. 385 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,470 Bernard, get Peter back in here and then get on to the Department of the Environment. 386 00:25:55,639 --> 00:25:58,073 Get Leslie Potts over here at once. 387 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,028 Prime Minister, I think I'll just, erm... If you'll excuse me. 388 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,191 Dr Thorne. 389 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,916 Peter, I've just remembered we still

have that vacancy at the Treasury. 390 00:26:10,081 --> 00:26:12,595 I've been racking my brains how to fill it, 391 00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:16,037 but your work on this paper has impressed me enormously. 392 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,708 You're not trying to get rid of me? 393 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,679 Definitely not. Quite the reverse. 394 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,872 It's a terrific step up. 395 00:26:24,081 --> 00:26:26,470 But thoroughly merited. 396 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,639 How can I take it if it means dropping my bill? 397 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,354 Peter, sit down. 398 00:26:32,558 --> 00:26:35,198 Let me be absolutely honest with you. 399 00:26:37,121 --> 00:26:42,592 This legislation would have been...would be... will be very difficult to get through. 400 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,192 The Treasury is the stumbling block, not the Department of Health. 401 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,875 It'll take longer, but if you

were inside learning the ropes, 402 00:26:51,041 --> 00:26:56,317 we'd have a much better chance of a watertight, foolproof Act when it gets to the statute book. 403 00:26:56,479 --> 00:26:59,756 - Believe me. - So my proposals aren't dropped? 404 00:27:00,439 --> 00:27:02,749 Absolutely not. 405 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,750 - OK. I'll take the Treasury job. - Good. 406 00:27:06,961 --> 00:27:09,555 Thanks a lot. Goodbye, Prime Minister. 407 00:27:15,041 --> 00:27:19,032 That leaves us with a vacancy at the Department of Health. Now... 408 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,715 The Minister for Sport is here, Prime Minister. 409 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,788 - Come in. - Mr Potts! 410 00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:28,715 Leslie! My dear chap. 411 00:27:30,081 --> 00:27:32,595 Sit down. Now... 412 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,916 How would you like to be Minister of Health? 413

00:27:42,121 --> 00:27:44,634 - Me? - Yes. 414 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,720 Well... 415 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,599 It's a considerable promotion. 416 00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:51,990 But thoroughly merited. 417 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,834 You're very suitable for the job. You're not one of the medical lobby like Dr Peter Thorne. 418 00:27:59,081 --> 00:28:03,595 Well, of course I can't refuse it. Thank you, Prime Minister. 419 00:28:04,439 --> 00:28:07,034 Humphrey, meet our new Minister for Health. 420 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,555 Oh, congratulations. 421 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,308 I don't want the job if it means attacking the tobacco industry. 422 00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:16,509 Ah, but it wouldn't. 423 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,308 You see, Leslie, we in government have to be realists. 424 00:28:20,479 --> 00:28:23,596 I want you to work WITH the tobacco industry.

425 00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,273 They're only trying to sort out the problems. 426 00:28:26,439 --> 00:28:31,958 They've got huge resources, nice chaps, caring people and really fabulous employers. 427 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,189 They are really trying to help. 428 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,956 I want you to work with the industry, not against it. 429 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,067 All right? 430 00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:46,750 What did he say? 431 00:28:46,921 --> 00:28:49,389 I think he said, "Yes, Prime Minister."