Shannon Spuzzillo 12/15/11 PHIL 1500 Paul Canis The Similarity Between the Nature of the State and

the Nature of the Individual In Platos The Republic, Plato describes Socrates speaking of four different kinds of government and how these kinds of government are similar to men in nature. He speaks of the Cretan and Lacedaemonian Constitutions, oligarchy, democracy, and tyranny. Overall, He speaks of how these are not as good as the government that is discussed throughout the rest of the book. Up until about book VIII, Socrates speaks about what makes a just city, and it is pretty much decided that just people who are well trained and well educated make up a just city. In this city, philosophers will rule and also be the perfect guardians because of their readiness to learn, memory, sagacity, (and) quickness (pg. 186). In this city, everybody will be educated. This includes men women and children. He speaks of basically weeding out the weak from the strong and breeding the stronger citizens to make the population as god-like as humanly possible. Many times throughout the beginning of the book, Socrates mentions the nature of the people. He says that if a woman is, by nature, like he husband who is a guardian, then she herself must be capable of being a guardian. Starting in book eight is really where he gets into how cities and governments by nature are like the people who create them.

In book VIII, the first government Socrates describes, besides aristocracy which is the just kind of government, is what he calls the ambitious constitution. He is referring to the Lacedaemonian constitution. He describes the constitution as midway between an aristocracy and oligarchy (pg. 230). He goes on to say that the people under this constitution will be more about war than peace and will have a passion for money. In the aristocracy, gymnastics and music are equally important in education and music always comes first. Under the ambitious constitution; however, gymnastics are put above music in education. It is then decided that the man who corresponds with this constitution must be inclined to be cruel to slaves, not having the properly educated mans contempt for them. To free men he will be civil, to his rulers zealously obedient. Loving rule and honour, he will claim them not for speech or any such qualifications, but for warlike deeds and warrior qualities. He will be a lover of gymnastic and of hunting. (pg. 231) He goes on to speak more of this type of man who corresponds with this form of government. After the Lacedaemonian constitution, he describes the other three types of constitutions and governments mentioned above, and explains their corresponding individuals. When speaking of oligarchy, he goes into more detail about the individual himself and how he and his soul are miserable. In speaking of the similarities between them and the individuals who relate to them, he is trying to say why it is so important that the people of the just city are well educated, for if they are not, the government

will change into something less just. It is important to know why education is important because this will make the citizens more eager to learn. If the citizens are eager to learn, it will be easier to teach them the things they need to know in order to keep the city in running order. In the just city that Socrates speaks of throughout the beginning of The Republic, he speaks of how if men are taught the wrong thing, then they will become unjust individuals. It is these kinds of people that can make the whole system falls apart. He is very strict in what they will be taught and what stories they will be told. In the other forms of government covered in book VIII the government teaches its citizens very different things, making these cities less just than the first. In reading this claim, there are many things that I find striking, some things in a positive manner and others the opposite. Overall, it seems like a very good claim. I would agree to an extent that the government is similar to the man who creates it and the people who reside there. To me, though, the whole thing sounds extremely close minded. While he does say that in the aristocracy philosophers would be the rulers, it sounds a lot like they would be brainwashing their citizens. My point of view could simply be because I live in a country that has democracy as its government, but the way that Socrates explains the perfect government sounds like they are taking away the peoples rights to make their own decisions and have their own freedom. In essence this sounds horrid, like I said; Ive been raised in a democracy, where the rights of the citizens are key. Ive been raised to believe that parents can tell any stories they would like to their children. And when a kid becomes an adult they can choose their own education, whether it lies in music, gymnastics, or both. When first hearing this, almost anybody in my position would question it. Then, I started really thinking about it. Maybe

controlling what people are taught really is the key to a just city or state, or even country or world. In showing the similarities between the state and the individual, Socrates points out that if the state has a just government, then the people in it will be just and vice versa. The idea of a place where every person is just and does things simply because theyre the right thing to do blows my mind. Is it because I live in a democracy that I think this way? Is it because I was raised to believe that people have the choiuce as to whether they want to do right or wrong? I guess Ill never truly know because I cant compare myself to a person who was raised a different way, for we are not the same person with the same thoughts and there will be no way to tell if its my upbringing or just my character in itself that differs from them. It does bring up a lot of thoughts, though. Would it really be so bad if everything we learned was controlled by the government? The answer would depend on whether the government was just itself or not. If the government is being manipulative and turning its citizens into slaves for evil doing, then of course this idea of controlling what everybody is taught would be a disaster. However, if the government is a just one, then I would have to say that it would do everybody some good to be taught the way that Socrates says is right. If we were all taught in the way that he describes the education of the aristocracy, then we might actually live in a just world.