From: Henno Brandsma Date: September 8, 2010 Subject: Re: Re: Re: injectivity and cancellation property.

In reply to "Re: Re: injectivity and cancellation property.", posted by BD on September 7, 2010: > Then does this also true that surjective function does not have left cancellation >property? but how? A surjective and non-injective function has the right cancellation property, but does not have the left cancellation property. This is clear because we have shown that f 1-1 <==> f has left cancellation property. [in the category of sets!] Henno >Please thank you so much for your help > > > >In reply to "Re: injectivity and cancellation property.", posted by Henno Brandsma on September 7, 2010: >>In reply to "injectivity", posted by BD on September 7, 2010: >>>how to pv: if f:A to B has left cancellation property then f is injective >>>(I found the converse).Also can we find a counter example that f is >>> injective but has no right-cancellation property? >>>thanks in advance >> >>Suppose f:A -> B has the left cancellation property, so >> >>(*) for all maps g,h: C --> A, if f o g = f o h, then g = h. >> >>To see that f is injective: suppose not and let a != a' be 2 points in A, such that f(a) = f(a'). >> >>Now define C = {0,1}, and g: C --> A by g(0) = a, g(1) = a' >>and h: C --> A by h(0) = h(1) = a. >>Then f o g = f o h, as both are constant with value f(a) = f(a'). >>But g != h, as witnessed by g(1) = a' != a = h(1). >> >>We can also show that the right cancellation property is equivalent to surjectivity, so >>if we have an injective but not surjective map, say >>f: {0}--> {0,1}, defined by f(0) = 0, this will not have the right cancellation property. >>(use g,h: {0,1} --> {0,1} defined by g = id and h == 0: h o f = g o f but g != h) >> >>Henno MapleMathematicaMATL ABScilabSASSPSS

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Enable EMail Alerts Thre Adam - 08 Jul 2004 14:49 GMT

Hi, I am studying set theory on my own as a hobby. The primary text that I use is Proofs and Fundamentals: A first course in abstract mathematics by Bloch. Below is a theorem that I wish others to read and then provide constructive comments about. It is a simple theorem, but I am just learning set theory, and so it is a good theorem for me to prove. Theorem 4.4.4. Let A and B be non-empty sets, and let f: A -> B be a function. (ii) The function f is injective iff f o g = f o h implies g = h for all functions g, h: Y -> A, for all sets Y.

Proof. Suppose f is injective. We assume that f o g = f o h. Since f was assumed injective, there exists a left inverse for f, which we denote by j: B -> A, such that j o f = 1_A. Applying j to both sides of our equation we get j o (f o g) = j o (f o h), and so (j o f) o g = (j o f) o h. Since j o f = 1_A, we get 1_A o g = 1_A o h. Thus, by the identity law, g = h, as desired. Now suppose f is not injective. There then exists some b in B such there for some x != y in A, f(x) = f(y) = b. Let Y = {1,2}. We define g as follows: let g(1) = x, and g(2) = y. We define h as follows: let h(1) = y, and h(2) = x. Thus f o g = f o h, but g != h. The desired result follows from the contrapositive. QED. Thank you, Adam. > I am studying set theory on my own as a hobby. The primary text that I use > is Proofs and Fundamentals: A first course in abstract mathematics by Bloch.
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> (ii) The function f is injective iff f o g = f o h implies g = h for all > functions g, h: Y -> A, for all sets Y. If f injection, then from fg = fh f(g(x)) = fg(x) = fh(x) = f(h(x)) g(x) = h(x) for all x; g = h by definition of injection f(x) = f(y) ==> x = y Slightly less overhead than yours. -Conversely Assume f(x) = f(y). let g(Y) = {x}, h(Y) = {y} then fg(z) = f(g(z)) = g(x) = f(y) = f(g(z)) = fg(z) for all z in Y fg = fh; g = h; x = g(z) = h(z) = y; x = y QED. About the same as yours but direct constructive proof without contraposition. Notice Y can be any set /= nulset, even Y = {1}. So g(1) = x, h(1) = y will suffice which is a bit easier on the head than the twist you did with Y = {1,2} > Proof. Suppose f is injective. We assume that f o g = f o h. Since f was > assumed injective, there exists a left inverse for f, which we denote by j:
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> and h(2) = x. Thus f o g = f o h, but g != h. The desired result follows > from the contrapositive. QED. Reply to this Message David C. Ullrich - 08 Jul 2004 16:40 GMT

>> I am studying set theory on my own as a hobby. The primary text that I use >> is Proofs and Fundamentals: A first course in abstract mathematics by Bloch.
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> >Slightly less overhead than yours. But no sentences. Sentences good. Non-sentences bad. >->Conversely >Assume f(x) = f(y). >let g(Y) = {x}, h(Y) = {y} >then fg(z) = f(g(z)) = g(x) = f(y) = f(g(z)) = fg(z) for all z in Y >fg = fh; g = h; x = g(z) = h(z) = y; x = y QED. Seriously, if I saw these two solutions on a homeword set he'd get a perfect score, although maybe I'd wish he'd written a _little_ less. You'd lose a certain amount for not writing in complete sentences and _also_ for not clarifying what you were assuming at various points, for example "Conversely" should be "Conversely, assume that fog = foh implies g = h." On the other hand, I didn't notice reading his that one could use a much simpler g and h. Probably what I'd be thrilled to see would be something like this: Proof. Suppose f is injective and f o g = f o h. Since f is injective it has a left inverse, which we denote by j. Now g = (jof)og = jo(fog) = jo(foh) = (jof)oh = h. [or maybe just "g = jofog jofoh = h" there.] Now suppose f is not injective; suppose that x != y but f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, h(1) = y. Then fog = foh although g != h. QED. My _guess_ is that writing out your "direct" version of the converse, this completely, will make it longer. Let's see: Conversely, assume that fog = foh implies g = h, and suppose f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, h(1) = y. Then fog = foh, hence g = h, so x = y. QED. No, it was about the same. ************************

David C. Ullrich Reply to this Message William Elliot - 09 Jul 2004 14:48 GMT > >If f injection, then from fg = fh > >f(g(x)) = fg(x) = fh(x) = f(h(x)) > >g(x) = h(x) for all x; g = h > >by definition of injection f(x) = f(y) ==> x = y > > But no sentences. Sentences good. Non-sentences bad. Outlines can use phrases and I make no claim other than presenting an outline for a proof. However you may not fault me for not using easily read printed text book style with spaces on both sides of = sign and often on both sides of + sign. Also like a text book I try to present formulas and mathematical expressions without the interruption of a new line. > >Conversely > >Assume f(x) = f(y).
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> On the other hand, I didn't notice reading his that > one could use a much simpler g and h. Yes, if anything, within my capacity I would be a better proof checker (including typos) than a proof writer. > Probably what I'd be thrilled to see would be something like > Proof. Suppose f is injective and f o g = f o h. Since f is > injective it has a left inverse, which we denote by j. Now
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> f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, h(1) = y. > Then fog = foh although g != h. QED. Indeed, your proof has the polished quality of an experienced author writing for a text book. > My _guess_ is that writing out your "direct" version > of the converse, this completely, will make it longer.
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> > No, it was about the same. As little is to be gained by indirect proof, the direct is preferable for being constructive. Reply to this Message Adam - 09 Jul 2004 20:36 GMT

> Seriously, if I saw these two solutions on a homeword set > he'd get a perfect score, although maybe I'd wish he'd
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> for example "Conversely" should be "Conversely, assume > that fog = foh implies g = h." I'm glad that my proof would get a perfect score! I've come a long way from not even knowing logic or what a set was. > Proof. Suppose f is injective and f o g = f o h. Since f is > injective it has a left inverse, which we denote by j. Now > > g = (jof)og = jo(fog) = jo(foh) = (jof)oh = h. > > [or maybe just "g = jofog jofoh = h" there.] At least to me, that is the exact some proof of mine, but without the extra clarification. I wanted to include each step just to be overly precise. > Now suppose f is not injective; suppose that x != y but > f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, h(1) = y. > Then fog = foh although g != h. QED. This proof is much nicer to read than my own. The x and y that you use are not properly defined, at least how I have learned to write proofs. You should write something like "Let x, y in A." Also, there should be some justification for assuming that two such distinct elements exist in the set A; this is because f is not injective. I assume you just didn't write these parts because of your advanced knowledge, but I try to include any and all assumptions in my proofs. I sometimes forget, but then my proofs are not correct to me. Even if they are obviously true or people understand what I mean. Of course, I could be wrong about my suggestions for your proof, but I'm just being honest in how I see things, and not meaning to nitpick. I trust that if I am incorrect, you will let me know, so that I can correct a misunderstanding. > Conversely, assume that fog = foh implies g = h, and > suppose f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, > h(1) = y. Then fog = foh, hence g = h, so x = y. QED. Again, I see a need to specify what x and y are. It's plainly obvious what you mean, but I think it should be written to present all assumptions. Thank you very much, Adam. Reply to this Message Arturo Magidin - 09 Jul 2004 20:43 GMT

>> Conversely, assume that fog = foh implies g = h, and >> suppose f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, >> h(1) = y. Then fog = foh, hence g = h, so x = y. QED. > > Again, I see a need to specify what x and y are. It's plainly obvious >what you mean, but I think it should be written to present all assumptions. As theorems get more complicated, trying to write everything down becomes not only more cumbersome, but very lengthy, complicated, and sometimes even obfuscating to the main point. Think about, for example, all the steps you skip in algebraic manipulations as a matter of course! If you have 5=x+2 you conclude that x = 3. But if you wanted to write every step, you would need to do something like: Since 5 = x + 2, we can add -2 to both sides: 5 + (- 2) = (x+2) + (- 2). Since addition is associative, we can rewrite the right hand side as (x+2) + (-2) = x+ (2+ (-2)). Since 2+ (-2) = 2 - 2 = 0, we have that the right hand side is (x+2) + (-2) = x+ ( 2 + (-2) ) = x+ 0. But 0 is the additive identity of the sum, so x+0 = x. Therefore, using the transitivity of the equality, we have: 5+ (-2) = x. And 5+(-2) = 5-2 = 3. So the left hand side is equal to 3. By the transitivity of equality, we have: 3 = x. And I skipped some steps along the way, too. If you don't feel comfortable skipping the steps, by all means, do not! The rule of thumb for skipping steps: (1) You are comfortable doing so; (2) The remaining text is clear or obvious to you; and most importantly:

(3) You are both able and willing to provide those steps if asked to do so. Signature ============================================================== ======== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes") ============================================================== ======== Arturo Magidin magidin@math.berkeley.edu Reply to this Message Adam - 09 Jul 2004 21:00 GMT > As theorems get more complicated, trying to write everything down > becomes not only more cumbersome, but very lengthy, complicated, and > sometimes even obfuscating to the main point. Think about, for > example, all the steps you skip in algebraic manipulations as a matter > of course! If you have Hi, I do understand about not including every logical step in a proof because some are obvious to any mathematician at a certain level. As people have written before, mathematicians wouldn't even write a proof for this because it would be easy for them to prove themselves. The author of my book wrote that proofs should be written with the intended audience in mind and so suited to their knowledge and abilities. For instance, he writes that a justification for the quadratic equation would not required when writing a proof for people of a certain knowledge because such information would be commonly known or easily looked-up in a textual resource. I subscribe to that view as well. When I present my proofs to this news group, I fully understand that I have less mathematical knowledge than most readers, and am more than grateful for others to take the time to help me, as I know my questions may seem rather silly and trivial at times. However, I can not write my proofs to suit the general knowledge of this news group because I, myself, do not know any more mathematics that what I write in my proofs. Many times my proofs have been dramatically simplified by others since they can use their knowledge and experience to great affect. When that is done, as was the case for Theorem 4.4.4 (ii), I learn a lot and am all the wiser for it. For instance, I thought the simplist way to prove part (ii), when f is not injective, was to have a Y with two elements, however others showed how a Y

with a single element could be used. Obviously I had the write idea, which is a good thing, but not the best idea. I'm working to further my understanding of mathematics and not just my ability to write proofs; however, proof-writing is also important to me. Again, thank you for your help, Adam. Reply to this Message David C. Ullrich - 10 Jul 2004 00:21 GMT >> Seriously, if I saw these two solutions on a homeword set >> he'd get a perfect score, although maybe I'd wish he'd
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>extra clarification. I wanted to include each step just to be overly >precise. Fine. No problem with that at all. The steps I left out were things that it seemed to me could not possibly be misunderstood: >> Now suppose f is not injective; suppose that x != y but >> f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, h(1) = y.
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> The x and y that you use are not properly defined, at least how I have >learned to write proofs. You should write something like "Let x, y in A." Officially, yes. But in the very same sentence I mention f(x) and f(y); it this point if the reader has any competence at all he knows I meant for x and y to be elements of A, because otherwise "f(x)" and "f(y)" make no sense. >Also, there should be some justification for assuming that two such distinct >elements exist in the set A; this is because f is not injective. Huh? Here you're not reading carefully, or something: I _said_ "Assume f is not injective" right there in black and white. > I assume >you just didn't write these parts because of your advanced knowledge, but I
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>and not meaning to nitpick. I trust that if I am incorrect, you will let me >know, so that I can correct a misunderstanding. When you're starting out it's better to include too much than too little. When you get to be a little more experienced, so you and the reader can fill in the obvious details, including too much makes things harder to read. >> Conversely, assume that fog = foh implies g = h, and >> suppose f(x) = f(y). Let Y = {1}, and define g(1) = x, >> h(1) = y. Then fog = foh, hence g = h, so x = y. QED.

> > Again, I see a need to specify what x and y are. This x and y are the same as in the previous sentence! If they'd changed without notice that would be a bad thing. >It's plainly obvious >what you mean, but I think it should be written to present all assumptions. > > Thank you very much, Adam. ************************ David C. Ullrich Reply to this Message Marc Olschok - 08 Jul 2004 15:58 GMT > Hi, >
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> (ii) The function f is injective iff f o g = f o h implies g = h for all > functions g, h: Y -> A, for all sets Y. At least for statement (ii) , the restriction "A and B non-empty" is not needed. Was it used somewhere else in the Theorem? > Proof. Suppose f is injective. We assume that f o g = f o h. Since f was > assumed injective, there exists a left inverse for f, which we denote by j: > B -> A, such that j o f = 1_A. Applying j to both sides of our equation we > get j o (f o g) = j o (f o h), and so (j o f) o g = (j o f) o h. Since j o f > = 1_A, we get 1_A o g = 1_A o h. Thus, by the identity law, g = h, as > desired. How exactly, did the text define "injective function" ? The property you used (existence of a left inverse) is equivalent to "injective" in case of a nonempty A, but if the text defined "injective" via "for all x,y in A : f(x)=f(y) ==> x=y", then a proof could proceed from that definition by proving the contrapositive along the line "If g not equal h, then there is a c in Y with g(c) not equal h(c) and ..." This has the advantage, that such a proof would also work in situations where "f injective" ==> "f has a left inverse" is not applicable. > Now suppose f is not injective. There then exists some b in B such there > for some x != y in A, f(x) = f(y) = b. Let Y = {1,2}. We define g as > follows: let g(1) = x, and g(2) = y. We define h as follows: let h(1) = y, > and h(2) = x. Thus f o g = f o h, but g != h. The desired result follows > from the contrapositive. QED.

The smaller Y={1}, with g(1)=x and h(1)=y already does it. Altogether, the proof works (unless I overlooked something). Marc Reply to this Message Arturo Magidin - 08 Jul 2004 18:55 GMT >> Hi, >>
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>This has the advantage, that such a proof would also work in situations >where "f injective" ==> "f has a left inverse" is not applicable. There is only one such situation, however: for f to be injective but not have a left inverse requires that the domain of f be empty, but the codomain nonempty. But if we have that the domain of f is empty, and in addition we have that f o g = f o h for some functions g and h, then the codomain of g and h must be empty, which means the domain of both is empty, and g and h are both the empty function from the empty set to itself. Signature ============================================================== ======== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes") ============================================================== ======== Arturo Magidin magidin@math.berkeley.edu Reply to this Message Marc Olschok - 09 Jul 2004 18:12 GMT >[...] >>> Theorem 4.4.4. Let A and B be non-empty sets, and let f: A -> B be a >>> function. >>> (ii) The function f is injective iff f o g = f o h implies g = h for all >>> functions g, h: Y -> A, for all sets Y. >[...] >>> Proof. Suppose f is injective. We assume that f o g = f o h. Since f was

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>>> = 1_A, we get 1_A o g = 1_A o h. Thus, by the identity law, g = h, as >>> desired. >>[...] then a proof could proceed from that definition by proving the >>contrapositive along the line
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> and h must be empty, which means the domain of both is empty, and g > and h are both the empty function from the empty set to itself. Sure. My main (subconcious) concern was, that the statement is still true, for topological spaces and continuous maps instead of sets and maps, and that with just a little variation, Adams proof would catch these situations too. Marc Reply to this Message Adam - 09 Jul 2004 20:16 GMT > Sure. My main (subconcious) concern was, that the statement is still > true, for topological spaces and continuous maps instead of sets and maps, > and that with just a little variation, Adams proof would catch these > situations too. Could you elaborate on what you mean by topological spaces and continuous maps? That seems very interesting. Thanks, Adam. Reply to this Message William Elliot - 10 Jul 2004 06:38 GMT > Could you elaborate on what you mean by topological spaces and > continuous maps? That seems very interesting. http://at.yorku.ca/topology/educ.htm Reply to this Message Arturo Magidin - 11 Jul 2004 19:45 GMT [.snip.] >> But if we have that the domain of f is empty, and in addition we have >> that f o g = f o h for some functions g and h, then the codomain of g
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>and that with just a little variation, Adams proof would catch these >situations too. Ah, but the "real reason" that 'one-to-one/injective' is equivalent to 'cancellable on the left' for topological spaces (and 'surjective' is

equivalent to 'cancellable on the right') is something else: it is that given any set there is a topological structure on it that makes any map of sets into it continuous (the indiscrete space), and a topological structure that makes any map of sets that has it as domain continuous (the discrete space); respectively. So you have a good notion of "free topological space in one element", which gives you that monomorphisms (maps which can be cancelled on the left) must be injective; and the discrete space gives you that epimorphisms (maps which can be cancelled on the right) must be surjective. But restrict the situation even a little, say, to Hausdorff spaces, and the proof no longer works: "cancellable on the right" now becomes equivalent to "image is dense", not to 'surjective'. You still have a 'free Hausdorff space on one element' which gives you that cancellable on the left is equivalent to injective, but you lose the other clause of the theorem. And in other concrete natural categories you lose the injectivity clause as well (e.g., in the category of divisble groups, the quotient map Q -> Q/Z is a monomorphism, so it can be cancelled on the left, even though it is not injective). Signature ============================================================== ======== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes") ============================================================== ======== Arturo Magidin magidin@math.berkeley.edu Reply to this Message Adam - 12 Jul 2004 03:18 GMT > Ah, but the "real reason" that 'one-to-one/injective' is equivalent to > 'cancellable on the left' for topological spaces (and 'surjective' is
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> topological structure that makes any map of sets that has it as domain > continuous (the discrete space); respectively. All I can say is "wow!" I hope to be able to understand that in the future. It just shows me how interesting mathematics is as one progresses further with it. I'm trying to learn what different mathematical mean or represent, and then how they are formally defined; that is, I'm trying to learn the conceptual metaphors that mathematicians think with.Day by day,

I'll increase my understanding. It's great motivation to read such posts. Take care, Adam. Reply to this Message Arturo Magidin - 12 Jul 2004 19:01 GMT >> Ah, but the "real reason" that 'one-to-one/injective' is equivalent to >> 'cancellable on the left' for topological spaces (and 'surjective' is
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> All I can say is "wow!" I hope to be able to understand that in the >future. (-: There are two things at work in that paragraph there: the obvious one is topology. This is a nice subject (and, in its "point-set" version, something you can try looking at once you finish with set theory; but it grows increasingly complicated as it acquires other 'surnames' like "algebraic topology" and so on...). Another thing lurking in the background is something called "category theory", also known affectionately and derisively (depending on who you ask) as "abstract nonsense". Not everyone's cup of tea, though a small splash of it here and there can be very useful. Signature ============================================================== ======== "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about what I accept as reality." --- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes") ============================================================== ======== Arturo Magidin magidin@math.berkeley.edu Reply to this Message Thomas Heye - 09 Jul 2004 06:06 GMT Hi Marc, but what would you gain by allowing empty sets? After all, what is the good of having functions from an empty set to another? How could one define a function froma set A to an empty set? Taking the abstract notion of a function from a set A to a set B, then f is a subset of the ordered pairs (a,b), where a in A and b in B. -- But of course you're right: The fact itself is not used in the proof.

Regards, Thomas > > Hi, >>

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> > Marc Reply to this Message Marc Olschok - 09 Jul 2004 18:05 GMT > Hi Marc, > but what would you gain by allowing empty sets? After all, what is the good
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> (a,b), where a in A and b in B. -- But of course you're right: The fact > itself is not used in the proof. Actually, the statement of Part (ii) >> > Theorem 4.4.4. Let A and B be non-empty sets, and let f: A -> B be a >> > function. >> > (ii) The function f is injective iff f o g = f o h implies g = h for all >> > functions g, h: Y -> A, for all sets Y. does not depend on A or B being nonempty, the result is true without this restriction. Hence I was just curious if perhaps some other part of the theorem would depend on it. Adams first part of the proof did use A nonempty in producing a left inverse for f. Of course in the context of the above wording this is o.k. Marc Reply to this Message Adam - 09 Jul 2004 20:14 GMT > does not depend on A or B being nonempty, the result is true without > this restriction. Hence I was just curious if perhaps some other part
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> a left inverse for f. > Of course in the context of the above wording this is o.k. Hi, Your question in regards to why the theorem concerns non-empty sets is valid. The author of my book tends to write similar theorems as parts of a single theorem, for which any needed property is stated for the whole. For example, if part (i) of a theorem requires a set to be empty, but part (ii) does not, he states the requirement for both parts in order to simplify things. However, as he states, his main motivation for requiring some sets

to be empty is to not have to deal with the trivial cases, as a number of people have commented on. This the entire theorem as it is presented in the book; part (i) was solved as an example by the author. Theorem 4.4.4. Let A and B be non-empty sets, and let f: A -> B be a function. (i) The function f is surjective iff g o f = h o f implies g = h for all function g, h: B -> X, for all sets X. (ii) The function f is injective iff f o g = f o h implies g = h for all functions g, h: Y -> A, for all sets Y. Thanks, Adam. Reply to this Message Marc Olschok - 10 Jul 2004 18:41 GMT >> does not depend on A or B being nonempty, the result is true without >> this restriction. Hence I was just curious if perhaps some other part >> of the theorem would depend on it. >[...] > This the entire theorem as it is presented in the book; part (i) was
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> (ii) The function f is injective iff f o g = f o h implies g = h for all > functions g, h: Y -> A, for all sets Y. Well, nothing in the theorem needs A or B nonempty. The only related situation, where empty sets may cause trouble is in the statement "every injective map between to sets has a left inverse", because for a map emptyset ---> X with X nonempty, this does not hold; but as mentioned before, this stronger property is not needed. The author of the text might have a valid point in trying to exclude trivial cases, but still it might cause problems later on; suppose, that at some later stage he _needs_ to use the statement above without knowing if the sets in question are nonempty? Strictly speaking, he could not invoke the theorem at that point without dealing with special cases ad hoc. Marc Reply to this Message Adam - 09 Jul 2004 20:19 GMT > How exactly, did the text define "injective function" ? Definition. Let f: A -> B be a function. (1) The map f is injective (also known as one-to-one or monic) if x != y implies f(x) != f(y) for all x, y in A; equivalently, if f(x) = f(y) implies

x = y for all x, y in A. (2) The map f is surjective (also known as onto or epic) if for every b in B, there exists some a in A such that f(a) = b; equivalently, if f_*(A) = B. (3) The map f is bijective if it is both injective and surjective. Thanks, Adam. Reply to this Message David C. Ullrich - 08 Jul 2004 16:13 GMT >Hi, >
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>comments about. It is a simple theorem, but I am just learning set theory, >and so it is a good theorem for me to prove. Seems exactly right. (Many versions of the proof would be a lot shorter - for that matter it's the sort of thing that a "grownup" mathematician wouldn't bother proving at all. But if we want to include all the details, which is a good thing right now, then it's just about right.) >Theorem 4.4.4. Let A and B be non-empty sets, and let f: A -> B be a >function.
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> >Thank you, Adam. ************************ David C. Ullrich Reply to this Message Adam - 09 Jul 2004 20:47 GMT > Seems exactly right. (Many versions of the proof would be a lot > shorter - for that matter it's the sort of thing that a "grownup" > mathematician wouldn't bother proving at all. But if we want > to include all the details, which is a good thing right now, > then it's just about right.) Hi, Thanks for checking my proof. I understand that these are simply proofs, but someone has to begin learning mathematics somewhere. It's not like people awake one morning and fully understand abstract algebra or matrix theory. I'm quite humble at this point in my study of mathematics, as I know there is an enormous amouth about which I know nothing. It is difficult at times to motivate myself to study mathematics, so some days I just dont read anything. However, I enjoy what I am studying so much that I will spend my

free time learning it instead of watching T.V. now. The path that I have set for myself is to finish Proof and Fundamentals: A first course in abstract mathematics, and also complete all 400+ exercises. After that I will know set theory, basics of group theory and lattices, and the Peano Postulates. Then I will proceed to learn linear algebra, but I will need a different text than the one I have because I wish for their to be more rigor. An online text that I have been reading, and that seems extremely good, is http://www.math.miami.edu/~ec/book/book.pdf. When I can understand that book, I will be very proud of myself. Then I will learn real analysis, complex analysis, PDE's, combinatorics, probability theory, and some more pure mathematics that I discover along the way. Hopefully then my mathamatics will be suffciently mature to put it to good use. Thank you for responding, Adam. Reply to this Message William Elliot - 10 Jul 2004 06:44 GMT > http://www.math.miami.edu/~ec/book/book.pdf. When I can understand that > book, I will be very proud of myself. Then I will learn real analysis, > complex analysis, PDE's, combinatorics, probability theory, and some more > pure mathematics that I discover along the way. Math is infinite, mind finite.