Beyond Discipline: From

Compliance to Community

Kristin Anderson
Mike Goetz
Sarah Rotarius
Mary Gawlik

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Who is Alfie Kohn?
He has written extensively on education.
Titles include:
No Contest; The Case Against Competition (1986/1992)
The Brighter Side of Human Nature (1990)
You Know What They Say (1990)
Punished by Rewards (1993)
What to Look For In a Classroom (1998)
The Schools Our Children Deserve (1999)
The Case Against Standardized Testing (2000)
What Does It Mean to Be Well Educated? (2004)
Unconditional Parenting (2005)
The Homework Myth (2006)

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One analyst says this about
Alfie Kohn (Joseph Milnes, 2001)

Alfie Kohn firmly believes that students need to be

taught how to be responsible and respectful. Once
this is accomplished, all other "content" can be
learned at a more "reasonable" rate, with a greater
threshold of proficiency. "Adults who are respectful of
children are not just modeling a skill or behavior,
they are meeting the emotional needs of those
children, thereby helping to create the psychological
conditions for children to treat others respectfully"
(Kohn 1997a). The goal of education is to help
students realize that they can think, learn, act, and
change things.

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One writer who does not agree
with Alfie Kohn (Daniel Willingham, 2009)

Kohn specializes in attacking conventional wisdom in

education. He takes a common practice that people
think is helpful and then shows its not helpful, and in
fact is destructive. Most people think that homework
helps kids learn, praise shows appreciation and
makes them more likely to do desirable things, and
self-discipline helps them achieve their goals. Kohn
argues that each of these conclusions is wrong or
over-simplified. Homework may bring small benefits
to some students, but it incurs greater costs and
overall is likely not worth assigning. Praise doesnt
help academic achievement, it controls children, it
reduces motivation, and makes them less able to
make decisions. Self-discipline is oversold as an
educational panacea, and in some contexts may
actually be undesirable. 4
What makes classrooms
extraordinary?
Some classrooms never seem to have
discipline problems
So what are these teachers doing or
what are they not doing?

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Is this the only style of classroom
management that works?

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Definition of classroom
management in Kohns words
The raison dtre of discipline or classroom
management is almost always to secure
childrens compliance with adults demands
(Kohn, p xii).
It is ... a teacher-directed model, one in which
expectations, rules, and consequences are
imposed on students. (Kohn, p xii).

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Why do teachers assume that bad things
will happen when we dont impose
rules?
Why do we blame the students when
things go wrong in our classrooms?

Kohn, p xiii

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 In Kohns view, classroom management
is a short term fix and only stops bad
behaviors.
It does not help children become good
people.

Kohn, p xv

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The nature of children
Is there chaos without rules?
Do children need to be told each and
every rule to know what to do?
Is positive reinforcement the only way?
Do children need to be taught to control
their impulses?

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Other theorists say.
Dreikurs Children act out to feel
significant.
Jones - Working independently is a
problem while the cats away, the
mice will play.
Canter Children are not motivated to
behave in school.

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So do we blame the kids?
Or should we blame what we are asking
of them?

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What about the curriculum?
Many problems in classrooms stem from
what students are being asked to learn.
Is the work too boring?
Or too hard?
Or not meaningful to the student(s)?

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Do students act up
. to pass time?

When students are off task,

our first response should be to ask,
Whats the task?

(Kohn, p 19)
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How students act in class is so
intertwined with curricular content that
it may be folly itself even to talk about
classroom management or discipline as
a field unto itself. (Kohn, p 21.)

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 Chapter 3

Bribes and Threats

If you punish a child for being naughty, and reward him for being
good, he will do right merely for the sake of the reward; and
when he goes out into the world and finds that goodness is not
always rewarded, nor wickedness always punished, he will grow
into a man who only thinks about how he may get on in the world,
and does right and wrong according as he finds either of
advantage to himself.

-Immanuel Kant, Education

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Disciplinary Techniques
Coercion=Power

When an adult has the power, they can

compel the student to do whatever they
want.

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Punishment
It must be deliberately chosen to be
unpleasant.

It must be intended to change the

students future behavior.

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 Incarcerating students = detention

Exiling students = suspension

Forcibly isolating students = time out

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The Price of Compliance
Returning to the same strategy means it isnt
effective.
Research shows punishment not only fails to solve
problems; it can make them worse.
It teaches a disturbing lesson= power
It warps the relationship between the punisher and
the punished.
Punishment impedes the process of ethical
development.

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Why We Punish
Quick and easy
Temporary compliance
We live what we know
Its expected
It makes us feel powerful
Desire for justice

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Rewards
Do this! --------------------------Get that!
Do rewards work? Yes!
They give us temporary compliance.
Are we genuinely concerned about helping
students become caring people? Rewards
and punishments only manipulate
someones actions.
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Chapter 4

Punishment Lite:
Consequences and Pseudochoice

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Repackaged Punishment

Logical consequences:
When you do this, then that
will happen.

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 Pseudochoice

Obey or suffer
You punish yourself
Chooseand suffer
What message do adults send when they
deliberately allow something unpleasant to
happen to a child even though they could have
intervened?
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Conventional Punishment vs. Logical Consequences

With conventional punishment, a child is

left with a sense of self intact and the
capacity to stand in opposition to the
punisher. Unlike logical consequences
which tries to turn the child against
herself.

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 Chapter 5

How Not to Get Control of the Classroom

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What are our actual goals?
(in the classroom)

Conformity and obedience?

Maximize time on task?
Promote depth of understanding?
Quiet behavior?
Promote life-long learning?
Promote concern for others?
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 What are our actual goals?
(in the classroom)

Alfie Kohns contention is that our

actual goals are rarely identified.

The idea of classroom management

enfolds within it certain goals, and
these goals may be problematic.

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 Traditional discipline programs
Assertive Discipline
The chief concern is getting students to obey. The
methods recommended include dictating,
controlling, threatening (except not using those
words).

We are encouraged to tell children exactly how

we want them to behave, to impose limits as
we see fit, and to announce exactly what will
happen to anyone who disobeys.
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 Traditional discipline programs
Assertive Discipline
Additional goals that are mentioned include
developing responsibility and self-esteem.

The underlying principle is that the teacher ought

to have unilateral control. This is never explicitly
stated.
The belief that the teacher should be in control of
the classroom just to get students to comply is
the common assumption.
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 Traditional discipline programs
Assertive Discipline
Overall, (according to Kohn) most of the
published research shows the technique to be
detrimental or, at best, to have no meaningful
effect at all (Emmer and Aussiker 1990; Render,
Padilla, and Krank 1989).

p. 57

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 New discipline programs

Assertive Discipline
(Sit down and shut up)

New Disciplines
(Be seated and refrain from talking)

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 New discipline programs
New Disciplines
(Be seated and refrain from talking)

These programs still accept the premise

that the teacher must be in control. The
only issues are how benevolent that
control will be, and how respectfully that
control will be maintained.

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 The problems with the goal
Compliance

When children are rewarded or threatened

into compliance, they will likely feel no
commitment to what they are doing.
The more we manage students behavior,
the more difficult it is for them to become
morally sophisticated people who think for
themselves and care about others.
pg. 62

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 Making Moral Meaning
Constructivist model of learning for
both academics and morals:
Students must be brought in on the process of
devising and justifying ethical principles!

1. Maximize the opportunity for students to make

choices.
2. Create a caring community in the classroom.
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 Making Moral Meaning

Discipline programs can (temporarily) change

behavior, but they cannot help people grow.

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 Chapter 6

A Classroom of Their Choosing

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Story
(pg. 79)

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Beyond Self-Discipline
Accepting someone elses expectations
is a far cry from developing ones own.

If we want children to take

responsibility, we must first give them
responsibility, and plenty of it.
pg. 84

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Beyond Self-Discipline
Structure versus control
What distinguishes an acceptable
classroom structure from a mechanism of
control is the input students have.
Use classroom meetings as a vehicle for
developing the classroom structure.

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 Reflections on Decision-making

Voting is just adversarial majoritarianism

It is experience with decisions that helps

children become capable of handling them.

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Reflections on Decision-making

Classroom meetings:
... a place for sharing
... a place for deciding
... a place for planning
...and a place for reflecting

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 Paradox
A curriculum that urges problem solving
and critical thinking...

and
a management system that requires
compliance and narrow obedience!

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Chapter 7

The Classroom as Community

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 What is a Community?

It is a place in which students feel cared

about and are encouraged to care about
each other. They experience a sense of
being valued and respected; the children
matter to one another and to the teacher.
- Kohn

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 PREREQUISITES FOR
BUILDING A COMMUNITY

True and authentic communities are best created:

1. Over time where trust can be developed.

2. When there are fewer numbers in the classroom and ideally in

smaller schools.

3. When the teacher is also a member of a community of adults

within the school.

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 Strategies for Building a Community
1. Student relationships with
the adults.
* Be a person first
* Is it alright to leave
yourself vulnerable?
* Remember details about
your students
2. Student to student
relationships
* Encourage continuous
work, play, and reflection
with other students
3. Community within the
classroom and entire
school
* Class meetings: discuss
problems and rules
together
* Look at misbehavior as
How can we help each
other?
4. Using academic instruction
* Mini-lessons
* Discuss problems from
the homework
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 CHILD DEVELOPMENT
PROJECT
*An elementary school program designed to apply the idea of a
caring community.

* Based on how a community can be created and why its

important to build this community.

* Stronger the community feel, the more students reported liking

school and the more they saw learning as valuable.

* Students demonstrated better conflict resolution and caring for

others.

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 OBJECTIONS

Why would the idea of community lack support?

What are ways a community can be destroyed?

* Can be a challenge

* Goes beyond teacher-student interactions. We need to look at

classroom structures.

* How does the classroom system work?

* Competition and grouping by ability are community destroyers

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 IS BUILDING A COMMUNITY
THREATENING THE RIGHTS
OF INDIVIDUALS?

* Some may set aside their own personal preferences for the good of
the group.

* Peer pressure should not be confused with building the dynamics of

the community.

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Chapter 8

Solving Problems Together

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 SOLVING PROBLEMS
TOGETHER
10 possible explanations for situations and ideas for effective problem
solving

1.Develop a Relationship
2.Have a Set of Skills- listening, experience, calm themselves, see
anothers point of view
3.Diagnosing what happened and why- play detective

4.Question our own practices- ask what is really going on?

5.Increase student involvement- ask What do you think we should

do?
6.Have students construct an authentic solution- encourage students to
explore possibilities and reflect
7.Making restitution- restore, repair, clean up

8.Check back later- Did the plan get solved?

9.Flexibility- Timing may not always be perfect

10.Minimize the impact- speak calmly and confidently about solving the
problem together
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Resources
Picture of leaves used as background: Google images:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://dannyseo.type
pad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/23/fallleaves.jpg&imgre
furl=http://dannyseo.typepad.com/my_weblog/television/&usg=
__15AjOrjhwea0KV_PKQ_dR0aIwiA=&h=360&w=468&sz=68&hl
=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=0XhhUVtRZ8-
NtM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2
Bof%2Bleaves%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1
Title page graphic: amazon.com
http://www.newfoundations.com/GALLERY/Kohn.html

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Resources cont.
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/
02/alfie-kohn-is-bad-for-you-and-
dangerous-for-your-children/
http://school.discoveryeducation.com/cl
ipart/clip/classhands.html
http://school.discoveryeducation.com/cl
ipart/category/stud0001.html

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