Transcript of Statements - Sylvania

In The Matter Of:
In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

________________________________________________________
Transcript of Statements
March 10, 2015
________________________________________________________
Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

730 Peachtree Street NE
Suite 470
Atlanta, GA 30308
770.343.9696
www.tiffanyalley.com
PUBLIC HEARING
IN RE: PALMETTO PIPELINE
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
March 10, 2015
5:05 p.m.
Screven County Library
106 South Community Drive

Sylvania, Georgia
Deborah K. Lingonis, RPR, CCR 2883
03/10/2015
1 APPEARANCES:
2 On behalf of Kinder Morgan:
3 JONATHON CHALLY, ESQ.
4 ANDREW MUTTER, ESQ.
5 King & Spalding
6 1180 Peachtree Street, N.E.
7 Atlanta, Georgia 30309
8 404.572.4705
9 amutter@kslaw.com
10 On behalf of Kinder Morgan:
11 ALLEN FORE
12 Vice President, Public Affairs
13 Kinder Morgan
14 3250 Lacey Road, Suite 700
15 Downers Grove, Illinois 60515
16 630.725.3044
17 allen_fore@kindermorgan.com
18
19 BRIAN S. WILLIAMS, P.E.
20 Director - Engineering
21 Kinder Morgan
22 1000 Windward Concourse, Suite 450
23 Alpharetta, Georgia 30005
24 770.751.4248
25 brian_williams@kindermorgan.com
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1 SWAIN M. GUZZARDI
2 Senior Agent II - Land & ROW
3 Kinder Morgan
4 1000 Windward Concourse, Suite 450
5 Alpharetta, Georgia 30005
6 770.751.4248
7 swain_guzzardi@kindermorgan.com
8 On behalf of Georgia Department of Transportation:
9 Michael J. Bolden
10 State Utilities Engineer
11 Georgia Department of Transportation
12 600 West Peachtree Street, N.W.
13 10th Floor
14 Atlanta, Georgia 30308
15 404.631.1354
16 mbolden@dot.ga.cov
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3 written disclosure statement was submitted by the court
4 reporter to all counsel present at the deposition and
5 is attached hereto.)
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1 MR. CHALLY: Let's go ahead and get started.

2 Thank you all for coming this evening. My name is Jon
3 Chally. I'm with King and Spalding, and with me are
4 Allen Fore and Brian Williams of Kinder Morgan. We are
5 here today to talk to you about the Palmetto Pipeline
6 Project.
7 Palmetto Products Pipeline has filed an
8 application with the Department of Transportation, an
9 application for public convenience and necessity that
10 relates to this particular project. We're here at the
11 DOT's request to hold, provide an opportunity for
12 public comment.
13 It's a public hearing, as I said, conducted at
14 the DOT's request to provide you an opportunity to give
15 us comment on this particular project. You can give
16 comment in multiple ways. We have a court reporter
17 here who will be able to take oral comments from you
18 throughout the evening.
19 We will have a short presentation. Mr. Fore
20 and Mr. Williams will give you a short presentation on
21 the project and then the court reporter will sort of
22 open it up for discussion where if you have questions,
23 you can come up, state your name and your address so
24 that we have that for the record and then state your
25 comment related to the project.
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1 In addition to this public comment meeting,

2 you can provide written comments related to this
3 particular project. You can send that comment to me.
4 My name and address is in the notice that informed you
5 that we were having a meeting today. You can also send
6 that written comment to the Department of
7 Transportation who will consider that.
8 THE AUDIENCE: And to whom?
9 MR. CHALLY: Mike Bolden.
10 THE AUDIENCE: B-o-l-t-o-n?
11 MR. CHALLY: B-o-l-d-e-n.
12 Okay. Now, as I said, what we're going to
13 do -- Well, let me back up. We filed our publication,
14 or excuse me, our application for public convenience
15 and necessity. The DOT is required to act on that
16 application within 90 days.
17 So I would ask to the extent that you all have
18 comment related to the project you provide that comment
19 quickly. We'll take it today, as we said, and if you
20 have written comment, please try to get that in to us
21 as quickly as you can. Okay.
22 THE AUDIENCE: 90 days from what date?
23 MR. CHALLY: 90 days from the date that the
24 notice of the application was published.
25 THE AUDIENCE: And when was that?
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1 MR. CHALLY: February 26th. Do your best

2 to -- The notices were published in various different
3 newspapers so the actual publication date varies.
4 would encourage you to submit a written comment within

5 90 days of February 13th.
6 THE AUDIENCE: 13th?
7 MR. CHALLY: That is when the application was
8 filed and would give you the most comfort that the time
9 period will not lapse. Okay?
10 So with that said, what we're going to do here
11 today is Mr. Fore and Mr. Williams are going to give a
12 short presentation on the project and then we'll open
13 up the floor for comment. Okay? Go ahead.
14 MR. FORE: All right. Thanks, Jon.
15 Allen Fore, vice president of Kinder Morgan,
16 and Brian Williams, our project director for the
17 Palmetto Pipeline Project and also Director of
18 Engineering.
19 Thanks for coming out tonight. We appreciate
20 your interest in our project. And as Jon said, what we
21 want to do tonight is give you an overview of our
22 project, what our proposed schedule is, the purpose of
23 our project and to respond to your questions.
24 We've done -- This is our third public meeting
25 similar to this that we've done in Georgia. We've got
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1 two more yet this week. And it really begins a

2 discussion and dialogue with local communities
3 throughout the three states that are part of our
4 proposed project.
5 I will say at the outset too to clear the
6 issue or at least address the issue of the battlefield
7 because I know that's an important issue, we will be
8 discussing tonight, we met with the mayor earlier
9 today, and we are going to route around the
10 battlefield.
11 (Audience clapping.)
12 MR. CHALLY: We've identified an alternative
13 and we plan to do that. We'll discuss that a little
14 bit more tonight. But you have the commitment from the
15 company tonight that we made with the mayor earlier
16 today that we will be proposing an alternative around
17 the battlefield.
18 THE AUDIENCE: Will we get a written
19 commitment?
20 MR. CHALLY: If you'd like.
21 THE AUDIENCE: Yes.
22 MR. CHALLY: We certainly can. We'll talk
23 about that in just a bit. Okay?
24 So let's start off with what our company is
25 and what we do and what we're proposing to do here in
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1 Georgia.
2 We are a pipeline transportation company, so
3 we transport product from one place to another. We
4 have about 80,000 miles of pipe across the United
5 States where we transport product.
6 We're the largest pipeline infrastructure
7 company in North America transporting refined products
8 such as what we're talking about tonight, gasoline and
9 diesel. We also transport natural gas and CO2 and
10 ethanol and other products. So transportation.
11 For the most part we don't own or sell the
12 gas. We just transport it from one place to another on
13 behalf of customers. What we're talking about tonight
14 is an expansion of our Plantation pipeline which is
15 pictured here.
16 And the Plantation system has been in
17 existence for many years and is one of the major
18 providers of refined products to the southeastern
19 United States. You can see here with the map beginning
20 in Louisiana and terminating up in the Washington, D.C.
21 area.
22 This is a major provider currently. This is
23 currently in service and has been delivering gasoline,
24 diesel and other products to the southeast and eastern
25 United States including the State of Georgia. So this
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1 is going to be, what we're proposing, an extension of

2 this system to bring some of the same products from the
3 Plantation pipeline system into the State of Georgia,
4 South Carolina and Florida.
5 And this is a little closer look at what we're
6 proposing. So on this picture the black line is the
7 red line. So the new piece of the project, the new
8 build on project would be here (indicating), beginning
9 in Belton, South Carolina, and terminating in
10 Jacksonville, Florida, and obviously coming through
11 locally here.
12 We currently operate about 3,000 miles of pipe
13 in Georgia, and that's important because we're often
14 asked about our projects. What is this? What is it
15 going to look like, and what can we expect from your
16 company? Well, I think a good example of that is our
17 existing infrastructure in the state and the 3,000
18 miles of pipe that we have.
19 So we're transporting a lot of product through
20 85 counties in Georgia, and again an expansion of that
21 existing footprint is what this project is about.
22 Locally here in the county, too, we also have our
23 Southern Natural Gas system that's a natural gas line
24 and our Elba Express which is a new natural gas line as
25 well.
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1 So those are two projects that already are in

2 service or proposed to be in service. It gives you an
3 idea of what construction operation of pipelines look
4 like and also the tax revenue that we're currently
5 paying the taxing bodies here locally in the county.
6 Pipeline construction is a regulated process.
7 So we're in the early stages. Jon mentioned about the
8 DOT process. That's one part of it. There are also
9 several other federal and state agencies that are part
10 of the oversight process.
11 So as we're talking here today we're just
12 beginning that permitting process. So we're consulting
13 with the Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Fish and
14 Wildlife Service, the applicable state agencies in
15 Georgia, South Carolina and Florida, and we'll need to
16 secure all of the permits applicable to our pipeline
17 before we can begin construction and ultimately go into
18 service.
19 So understand that we still are today in the
20 early stages. We've been talking about this project or
21 an iteration of it for several years, but we are just
22 in the beginnings of the permitting process.
23 And part of that process is what we're doing
24 here tonight and we're doing in other parts of Georgia
25 is to talk about our project and get local input and
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1 that's what we want to do here tonight.

2 Brian, I'll turn it over to you to begin the
3 overview of the project.
4 MR. WILLIAMS: Sure, thanks. Again, my name
5 is Brian Williams, project director for this project
6 and an engineering director with Kinder Morgan.
7 The project that we're looking at, the
8 modifications to the Plantation pipeline system and the
9 construction of the Palmetto system is about a billion
10 dollar project. And you can see on the Plantation map,
11 it's spread all across the southeastern U.S.
12 The biggest part of that 1 billion dollars
13 will be spent on new construction. The project is
14 about a 360 mile new built pipeline originating in
15 Belton, South Carolina, near Anderson, South Carolina,
16 near Clinton.
17 Everybody's been to Belton? Has anybody been
18 to Belton? Okay. There's one. There is an existing
19 terminal community, pipeline terminal community in
20 Belton that is serviced by two pipelines that runs
21 through the southeastern U.S. That's the Colonial
22 pipeline system and the Plantation system.
23 Kinder Morgan operates the Plantation system
24 and that will be the source for this new 360-mile
25 pipeline. There will be a new receipt facility off of
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1 that Plantation system built at Belton, which will be a

2 tank farm and a pump station in that existing terminal
3 community on a site where a former terminal has been
4 dismantled.
5 Let's see, Palmetto Allen mentioned to you
6 that this project has been kind of in the works or been
7 talked about for a few years now. One of the big
8 pieces the way Kinder Morgan operates is we don't
9 believe in the build it and they will come philosophy.
10 We only build a project if we have commercial
11 commitments to back it up.
12 And in this case we held what's called an open
13 season where we advertised to people who ship petroleum
14 products that we're considering this idea and we asked
15 those people to sign up or subscribe to support the
16 pipeline. That was conducted earlier. That was
17 conducted in 2014 and that concluded around late
18 October, and we did receive enough commercial interest
19 and commitment to proceed with the project.
20 The project is designed to handle up to
21 167,000 barrels a day. We anticipate that the initial
22 capacity when we start running the pipeline would be
23 about 150,000 barrels a day, somewhere in that range.
24 So there's a little bit of room for growth in it.
25 And I keep talking about the project and the
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1 pipe. Let's go through a few basics for just a moment.

2 What we're talking about installing is a pipeline that
3 through the State of Georgia would be 16 inch in
4 diameter. It's made out of high strength steel. It is
5 coated, protected from corrosion and it's buried.
6 The federal DOT under their pipeline of
7 hazardous materials safety administration requires
8 pipes to be buried at least 30 inches. Our typical
9 burial depth is four feet, and the reason for that is
10 it permits farming activities to still continue on top
11 of it with less encumbrance.
12 One of the things we do with all our of pipes
13 as I mentioned is that they're coated. They're coated
14 with a type of epoxy that called fusion bonded, a very
15 strong durable material.
16 And in addition to that we install an
17 electronic cathodic protection system that protects it
18 from corrosion where we actually drive electrons to the
19 pipe instead of having them come away from the pipe
20 which is like when rust hits it.
21 Let's see, we mentioned the additional
22 facilities up at Belton. They'll be the takeoff
23 facility and terminal. There will be three additional
24 pump stations spread out along the route there roughly
25 at 90-mile station spacings.
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1 We're still working through and finalizing the

2 hydraulic calculations to site those stations. And a
3 little bit about it, those stations typically are size
4 wise they're on about a two to five-acre parcel
5 usually.
6 And Kinder Morgan's philosophy is when it's
7 time to build something like that, we want to buy the
8 property in fee. We want to own that property rather
9 than encumber somebody with a long-term easement on
10 that.
11 The pipeline easement itself is something that
12 we pay for from a landowner. The landowner continues
13 to own that land and grants an easement. And the
14 easement width that we are proposing for this project
15 is a 50-foot permanent easement.
16 One of the things we have looked at in siting
17 this project is we want to minimize impact along the
18 route. And from our first layout of the project what
19 we did was site it along existing corridors, existing
20 utility corridors.
21 And let's see if we can get back to another
22 map. Originating at Belton the pipeline would be, the
23 new pipeline would be alongside an existing pipeline
24 corridor that runs from Belton to Augusta. Then south
25 of Augusta along through here is mostly existing power
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1 line corridors. That's mostly along Georgia Power.

2 There's a little bit alongside a railroad, and
3 then from about Savannah to the west side of
4 Jacksonville, most of that is along an existing
5 pipeline corridor called the Cypress natural gas
6 pipeline, and that's a pipeline that's owned and
7 operated by Kinder Morgan.
8 And what we're talking about doing is abutting
9 this new easement that we would acquire right alongside
10 those existing easements to minimize impact to
11 landowners. Let's see, this one shows again a little
12 more detail on the route.
13 Let me back up a second and talk about
14 schedule for a moment. Allen mentioned that we are in
15 the midst of having some meetings in the State of
16 Georgia that's ongoing now.
17 On route selection, we have a preliminary
18 route identified that's what depicted on these
19 drawings. We also have some more detailed aerial
20 photos. If somebody would like to see that kind of
21 thing after the meeting breaks up, those will be
22 available and you can come visit with us.
23 So we select this preliminary route and what
24 we have going on right now is we are obtaining
25 permission from landowners to have survey crews go out
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1 and stake along that preliminary route.

2 One of the things that goes on with this
3 initial survey piece is after the survey crews go out
4 and set the stakes for the proposed route, we have some
5 other surveys that will be conducted along the route.
6 And those are wetland surveys, biological surveys for
7 endangered species and cultural surveys and that will
8 be all along the route.
9 And that's information we need to gather, and
10 that influences routing decisions. Another thing is
11 just how property owners are in dealing with. If there
12 are huge objections there, that can be a cause for
13 reroute or sometimes there are obstructions that we
14 don't see in the preliminary data.
15 You know, we start off with like a Google
16 Earth map or aerial photos and you work from that, and
17 sometimes you find that things are changed in recent
18 times. So we're going through the exercise now of
19 nailing down that route. And we're targeting to start
20 construction about a year from now, spring of 2016 and
21 having the pipeline in operation by July of 2017.
22 All right. And here's the route through the
23 county as it was originally laid out. And as Allen
24 mentioned earlier, we will be altering the route to
25 avoid the battlefield. We've identified a preliminary
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1 alternative, but we really need to pursue that a bit

2 before making that one publicly available. But we are
3 committing to all of you folks that we will be routing
4 around the battlefield.
5 And this slide kind of depicts what pipeline
6 construction is like. We thought it might be helpful
7 for people to have an idea of what goes on in the
8 process. And it starts off with survey crews and then
9 clearing goes underway and then there's grading effort.
10 And one of the things we do is we move the
11 topsoil off of the area that's going to be trenched
12 where the pipe will be laid in there because we want to
13 preserve that topsoil and bring it back across the
14 restored right-of-way proceeding.
15 And then a trench is cut, and you see guys
16 putting in backfill material. Pipe is -- they call it
17 stringing. I don't know why. It's just an old
18 pipeline term. They lay it out in a long string I
19 guess. And there's other things that you'll hear us
20 talk about.
21 I'm sorry, I'll digress for a minute. If you
22 ever hear people talk pipeline language, you might
23 thing they're very strange and I certainly did.
24 hired on in this business in the early '80s, and I

25 thought it was really odd when they talked about a
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1 piece of pipe. They didn't call it a piece of pipe.

2 Does anyone know what that's called?
3 THE AUDIENCE: Joint.
4 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, a joint. Geez, this is
5 the '80s. We just finished the '70s. That's not what
6 joint meant. And then I found out that after they weld
7 the pipe together and they coat it where those weld
8 joints are, they coat it with dope.
9 Again, early '80s, just finished the '70s.
10 thought I was going to have to learn a whole new -11 Well, I did learn a whole new lexicon and they get the
12 dope out of the dope pot. Sorry, that's my digression
13 for tonight. I promise I'll be the only one.
14 All right. So the pipe is strung out along
15 the right-of-way, it's welded together, the joints are
16 coated, the pipe is lowered in, and then after it is
17 lowered in, the backfill goes in the ditch. And in
18 rocky areas, they actually pull the rocks out of the
19 backfill before filling back over the line, and then
20 the topsoil is spread back over the line.
21 And then seeding, seeding is applied according
22 to whatever the local requirements are, and that varies
23 by parts of the country that we're here in. And we
24 always work with the local folks to help us on that.
25 So that's kind of a quick overview. That's kind of
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1 what pipeline right-of-ways look like.

2 And you guys know driving around have probably
3 seen these. They look a lot like power line
4 right-of-ways. And I mentioned we have some pump
5 stations, again two to five acres. This is an existing
6 pump station. There's not a whole lot to them.
7 There's a little bit of valving and such where
8 the pipe comes out of the ground. There is usually a
9 substation because the pumps are electrically driven,
10 an electrical building, and sometimes you'll have a
11 small maintenance building there. And that's about it.
12 All right. Allen.
13 MR. FORE: Thanks, Brian. So we anticipate on
14 this project a significant amount of construction jobs
15 related to it. These will be jobs that will be at a
16 peak about 1200 construction workers throughout the
17 state.
18 We also expect about 28 permanent jobs, so
19 these will be adding to our existing employee base in
20 the State of Georgia. We also expect to increase our
21 property tax ad valorem tax payments to the state by
22 about 5 million dollars a year.
23 The portion going to locally here in the
24 county and the local taxing bodies will be based on the
25 facilities miles of pipe that we have here in the
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1 county. So part of that 4.9 million will be coming

2 here as well, and this is also expanding general
3 availability of refined products to the region which is
4 important for overall energy infrastructure and energy
5 security.
6 So there will be short-term benefits from a
7 construction perspective, long-term benefits from
8 supply and taxes and permanent jobs. We have operated
9 in Georgia for a long time. Brian is headquartered in
10 Alpharetta which is our headquarters for the region,
11 and we are very proud of our commitment to communities
12 along our pipeline system.
13 And I always say at public meetings like this
14 across the country that it's not about what we say
15 tonight. It's about what you say when we're done with
16 this project.
17 And the community leaders and the elected
18 officials and others I think on balance if you talk to
19 them would say that Kinder Morgan, we do what we say
20 we're going to do, we operate our systems in a safe and
21 efficient manner, and we're good corporate citizens.
22 And that's right now in Georgia and the communities
23 that we operate in.
24 We also look forward to partnering with the
25 communities, investing in your communities, and we want
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1 to talk to the mayor more about that which means

2 locally in addition to the tax revenues we're paying,
3 these are examples of real time things we've done
4 across the country, Savannah, Georgia, Mississippi and
5 other states partnering with emergency responders in
6 towns in a way that is beneficial to the community. So
7 we're going to be consulting with your community
8 leaders on that.
9 So with that, Jon, that's our general project
10 overview. As I said, this is the beginning of a public
11 dialogue. We expect in addition to the public meetings
12 we're going to be having in the next couple of weeks to
13 have additional conversations, both public and private,
14 throughout the region.
15 Also, all the landowners and I'm sure there
16 are several here tonight are going to receive
17 individual consultations and contacts with our land
18 agents to talk about the specifics of their property.
19 We'll also offer briefings to city and other officials,
20 county officials that want to know more about our
21 project as they see fit. So we're committed to
22 learning and understanding.
23 As Brian said, when we initially introduced
24 these projects, we talk about two major pieces. One is
25 the commercial piece. We've got to have certainty that
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1 customers, those who use this product and deliver it

2 ultimately to homes and businesses need it and they're
3 willing to sign up for long-term commitments that the
4 moment this pipe goes in service they're going to use
5 it. So we had to be sure about that and we have
6 received assurety on that.
7 The second is we have to be certain from a
8 regulatory perspective. So we have to design a product
9 that the regulators can permit. And while we think
10 we've done that right now, we know we can make it
11 better and we're going to be working over the next year
12 as we file for our permits and go through the
13 permitting process to do that.
14 So it's at the federal, state and local level
15 learning more like we have here locally to make route
16 adjustments, to modify our project in small and maybe
17 in some cases larger ways to make the project the least
18 impactful as possible.
19 We understand that these projects are
20 impactful, but we want to minimize those impacts as
21 much as possible and that's through public dialogue and
22 working with all of you. So we look forward to that
23 and look forward to your questions.
24 Jon.
25 MR. CHALLY: Okay. So what we will do is
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1 provide an opportunity for you all to make comments.

2 As I said, we have a court reporter. If you want to
3 make a comment, we would ask that you come up and state
4 your name and address to the court reporter and then
5 turn around and make your comment to everyone in the
6 room so that they can hear it.
7 I'd also add that we will be around,
8 particularly Allen and Brian who you will more likely
9 want to talk to, they will be around after the meeting
10 to answer specific questions that you may have. You're
11 welcome to try to ask that question in the public
12 forum, but it may be easier to reserve that question
13 until you can talk directly to Allen or Brian. Okay?
14 So with that I'll open it up. Raise your
15 hand. I'm happy to -- This gentleman right here if you
16 come on up.
17 MR. FITZNER: My name is John Fitzner,
18 F-i-t-z-n-e-r,
. My
19 question is to you gentlemen, Kinder Morgan has -20 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, sir. Can you please
21 state it so everybody can hear it.
22 MR. FITZNER: Okay. Kinder Morgan has had 180
23 spills this -- had fires and explosions and fatalities
24 in 24 states from 2003 to 2014. What is the guarantee
25 that this new pipeline -- You've already got one on the
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1 west of town.
2 Why don't you run it down the pipeline you've
3 already got instead of impacting all this sensitive
4 area through five major rivers and on the coast of
5 Georgia? That doesn't make any sense to me since
6 you've already got an easement on the west side of
7 town. Why don't you use that?
8 And what are you going to do to protect us?
9 mean you've got all these spills and all these damages
10 you've had since 2014 to 2003. I mean what's the
11 guarantee that something isn't going to happen? You've
12 had it done in 24 states already.
13 MR. FORE: Okay. I'll start with the general
14 comment about safety and statistics and information
15 that you all can access on your own to find out our
16 safety record and other companies.
17 First, you can go to our own website at Kinder
18 Morgan dot com and we publish our safety record. We're
19 the only energy company that actually does that. So we
20 self-publish our safety record, and I know you'll find
21 that it is much the best in the industry. It doesn't
22 say we're perfect and we don't have incidents, but it's
23 out there for everyone to read.
24 The second is the U.S. Department of
25 Transportation, Office of Pipeline Safety, Pipeline
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1 Hazardous Material Safety Administration, it's called

2 PHMSA, that is a lot to say, but the U.S. Department of
3 Transportation, they regulate -- not the state, the
4 federal government regulates the operations of
5 pipelines.
6 They also publish on their pipeline reportable
7 incidents from companies. So you can go to that
8 website and take a look at our company and other
9 pipeline companies and how the industry reports.
10 There's no question that pipelines are the safest way
11 to transport energy, the safest way to transport.
12 It doesn't mean that there isn't the
13 possibility of some issue, but if you look at companies
14 on balance and their overall record and what they do to
15 invest in a quality product and the folks who build
16 them like Brian, I think you'll see that Kinder Morgan
17 is the leader in the industry to make sure our
18 pipelines are safe.
19 But, Brian, why don't you walk through the
20 specifics of what we do.
21 MR. WILLIAMS: Sure. Let's talk about that.
22 With the pipeline that we're talking about, we are
23 going to exceed the PHMSA requirements. I talked to
24 you about burial depth, going deeper.
25 One of the major cause of pipeline releases
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1 outside of facilities is from third-party damage.

2 Going deeper helps that and Kinder Morgan has been a
3 very active proponent and leader in an organization
4 called the Common Ground Alliance.
5 Many of you may have heard of that. You've
6 seen the big Call 811 signs around town I'm sure, and
7 that's a huge case that's made an impact so far in the
8 industry. It's been a very positive thing and we
9 encourage that.
10 I'd also add a couple of other places that I
11 recommend you go to look at for public information
12 about pipelines. There's an industry group called the
13 Association of Oil Pipelines. They put out a website
14 that's called Pipeline 101, great general information
15 about pipelines and it has some links to other
16 statistics you can get.
17 One other thing is Kinder Morgan is committed
18 to doing things well when we install these lines. At
19 our aboveground facilities, you saw that pump station
20 there, one of the things we do is we install concrete
21 pads with curbs around them now, containment, in places
22 where there might be a potential leak in the future
23 because we don't want to put anything on clean ground.
24 It's not good for you guys. It's not good for us.
25 Okay? So we do things like that.
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1 We are making a commitment on this pipeline.

2 Every pipeline has what's called block valves spaced
3 periodically along the line. And the purpose of those
4 valves is if you need to stop the flow in a line for
5 maintenance work, they can be closed and also, heaven
6 forbid if there's an emergency, those valves can be
7 closed to block the flow.
8 PHMSA does not require that those valves be
9 remotely controlled. Kinder Morgan is making the
10 commitment that those valves will be remotely
11 controlled by operators at our control center outside
12 of Atlanta and that is run 24/7.
13 That's a commitment that we began making a
14 couple of years ago on some other projects because we
15 believe very strongly in being a proactive company.
16 That's a couple of the highlights.
17 Another thing that we do is we install a
18 computer program that's called computational pipeline
19 measurement. And it's a math program that looks at the
20 pressures along the pipeline and the meter flow rates
21 and let's you know, it alerts if it thinks you might
22 have a leak to investigate.
23 And our operators are trained that when they
24 get that alarm, they shut down the line and they don't
25 restart until they know absolutely certain what they're
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1 dealing with. So that's some of the things that go on.

2 It's pretty much across the industry Kinder Morgan has
3 stepped out beyond that with those containment ideas,
4 with the depth of cover and with the automated remotely
5 controlled block valves.
6 Okay. Jon.
7 MR. CHALLY: Thanks. Yes, ma'am.
8 MS. BONITATIBUS: Sorry, I've got a doozy of a
9 last name. Tonya Bonitatibus, B-o-n-i-t-a-t-i-b-u-s,
10
My name is Tonya Bonitatibus. I represent the

13 Savannah Riverkeeper. I also tonight represent a group
14 called Push Back the Pipeline, a group of 25 concerned
15 citizen groups in three states that have joined
16 together.
17 We have serious concerns about this pipeline.
18 I'll be perfectly honest with you, I take this
19 personally. This is my river. It is going through the
20 entire thing. So beyond just representing the Push
21 Back the Pipeline group, this is a personal issue for
22 me.
23 One of the things I think you have to keep in
24 mind is that our economy and throughout this entire
25 area is completely relying on this river. We don't
03/10/2015
1 have a similar capacity left. We don't have room to be

2 messing around. Every time you mess up or somebody
3 else messes up, somebody else may be at the lake down
4 in Savannah, we all negatively get affected by that
5 especially in this area.
6 I want to go through some of the main things
7 that I have heard and the main reasons. Number one is
8 this is not a public hearing. This is being touted as
9 a public hearing. These comments are going back to
10 King and Spalding. They're not going back to DOT.
11 Do we have a DOT representative in the room?
12 Is there DOT in here? There is one DOT representative.
13 Okay. Are the comments going back to you guys?
14 MR. BOLDEN: Yes.
15 MS. BONITATIBUS: Okay. Are they going to be
16 responded to through DOT?
17 MR. BOLDEN: This depends.
18 MS. BONITATIBUS: All right. So that's one
19 thing. The second thing is this is the beginning of a
20 phase. They have a couple different permits. But I
21 will tell you in Georgia it's kind of scary. There's
22 not a lot of permits that they have to get especially
23 if they don't have to use eminent domain. There's a
24 lot of questions about whether state permits would even
25 be required.
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1 One of the big issues, another one that we've

2 heard a lot about especially in this area, is there is
3 no benefit to us here. There is no reason. In North
4 Augusta we already have some of the cheapest gas in the
5 United States in North Augusta.
6 I'd like to know how that's economically
7 feasible, and then all through Sylvania, Burke County
8 and these areas, how are we supposed to benefit? We
9 take all the risk and there is no benefit to us.
10 The other one is the access to property. I am
11 getting tons of calls about this, about the fact that
12 these pipelines are avenues for four wheelers, illegal
13 hunting, illegal trespass. It's opening these people's
14 property up to all kinds of various activities.
15 The other one is the loss of the use of the
16 land. I know that you said that you can do ag on
17 there. I have worked with a lot of pipelines
18 throughout the Savannah River. I'm sorry, one of
19 them -- Yes, often it is a third party that crushes
20 these pipelines or cuts into them.
21 But you say you dig four feet. What about
22 settling. These guys are digging it too. It does not
23 take very much to cut into these pipelines. And
24 traditionally what I have seen is it often takes a lot
25 longer than you say in order to know that these spills
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1 that are occurring.

2 An average spill that I see is 70,000 gallons
3 before somebody wakes up and sees that it's spilling.
4 Oftentimes it's much more than that. And specifically
5 I'm not talking about oil and gas here. I'm talking
6 about Palen and some of the other spills that I've
7 dealt with on the Savannah River and in Brier Creek.
8 The other big one that I'm hearing is that
9 nobody has talked to Effingham. Effingham County has
10 reached out to you guys and wants to sit down and have
11 a meeting. This pipeline goes through Effingham more
12 than anywhere else and they feel left out. They need a
13 hearing. They need a real public hearing.
14 And then the big one that you've already
15 addressed is I'd like to bring up the sightline
16 institute report on Kinder Morgan and their safety
17 violations. They're huge and there's lots of different
18 things in here that I'd like some responses back on how
19 your behavior has changed since 2012 when this came out
20 and why should we trust you here in this area.
21 Thank you very much.
22 MR. FORE: So we'll try to address as many of
23 those, and you can remind us if we miss a few. I'm
24 sure we will. But the one that stuck out at the
25 beginning of what you commented was you're not sure if
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1 we need to secure state permits. We certainly do.

2 We have multiple environmental permits that we
3 need to receive from the State of Georgia in order for
4 this pipeline to be in service. So those as well as
5 the federal U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and Fish and
6 Wildlife Service to name a couple of agencies that all
7 have to be part of the permitting process on the
8 project.
9 Whenever we look at projects, as I said at the
10 beginning, we design a project that is permittable in
11 our view. In other words, we know what the regulations
12 are. We know the permits that we need to receive, and
13 we know generally what the regulators are looking for,
14 and we're trying to design a project that's going to
15 fit that.
16 We wouldn't have announced this project
17 without what we believe is a project that the agencies
18 are able to permit. That means that fits, exceeds the
19 standards that they put out. So the process is just
20 beginning, but without question we have state and
21 federal permits that we need to secure.
22 We propose projects. At the end of the day
23 the regulators will tell us what we can and cannot do.
24 We're a company. We propose to service customers.
25 They tell us what we can and can't do, and that process
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1 is just getting started.

2 Do you want to talk about some of the -3 MR. WILLIAMS: Let's talk about a couple of
4 things. One is the young lady just referenced some
5 average numbers on spills and acknowledged that those
6 went well beyond just the liquid petroleum pipeline
7 industry, and I appreciate that acknowledgment because
8 that doesn't reflect what goes on in the industry.
9 In the liquid pipeline petroleum industry, we
10 have to report to the federal pipeline, Office of
11 Pipeline Safety, PHMSA, that agency we mentioned, any
12 release greater than five gallons.
13 So if you look at our database online and if
14 you look at the PHMSA database online, you'll see a lot
15 of really small maintenance-related type things
16 related, if a mechanic messes up, rips something, those
17 kind of things show up.
18 That's another reason for putting containment
19 around is because you will also see that almost all of
20 those releases in the database occur inside facilities,
21 and that's where you have things that can happen like
22 gaskets might leak or a pump seal might leak, things
23 like that. And that's what we want to consider from
24 the outset and we do intend to consider from the
25 outset.
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1 Another thing that has not yet been brought up

2 is one of the technologies we use now for crossing
3 rivers is much, much less invasive than the old methods
4 where we would trench across the river, silt up the
5 river, damage the banks and it takes a while to restore
6 banks and such.
7 So we now back away from water crossings on
8 either side and use a drilling technique called
9 horizontal directional drilling. And we actually go
10 down in an arc under the river and come up away from
11 it, and that is a much, much less invasive way of
12 installing a pipeline. For us that's our standard
13 practice now.
14 Let's see, what else did we have?
15 MR. FORE: Effingham County, I know we had
16 last week a couple of commissioners were at the public
17 meeting we did, and we committed at that meeting to do
18 a presentation to Effingham and we've been in
19 communication.
20 Stephanie Johnson I think is one of the staff
21 people, the clerk at the county. We've also called up
22 one of the commissioners. So we will be doing a
23 presentation in Effingham.
24 THE AUDIENCE: Do you have a date?
25 MR. FORE: Not yet.
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1 THE AUDIENCE: Will we be notified?

2 MR. FORE: Sure.
3 THE AUDIENCE: How?
4 MR. FORE: Whenever the county wants us to do
5 it, they want to do some type of publication. This
6 will be a meeting that will be held however they want
7 us to hold it. It might be in conjunction with a
8 county commissioner's meeting. I don't know. We
9 haven't gotten to that detail yet, but it will
10 certainly be public.
11 MR. CHALLY: Yeah, the gentleman back here.
12 MR. HELMLY: My name is James Helmly,
13 H-e-l-m-l-y,
14 My first question is y'all failed to answer
15 the gentlemen's first question is why don't you go down
16 the existing easement? My second question is you said
17 this is your easement that you will get that will go on
18 forever and you're doing service to the community. So
19 you're not going to make any profit off the 167,000
20 gallons a day you pump through the line?
21 And you're going to take property from us and
22 give us a one-time fee where you make forever profit on
23 every gallon you pump through the pipeline. And from
24 what I've read under the code of Georgia you can just
25 about do what you want to do.
03/10/2015
1 MR. WILLIAMS: Let's talk about the route

2 first. The specific question I believe, if I remember
3 how it was phrased was why can't we instead of
4 installing a new pipeline, why cannot we pump this
5 liquid product down that existing pipeline and not do
6 anything other than that?
7 THE AUDIENCE: Existing easement.
8 MR. WILLIAMS: Easement.
9 THE AUDIENCE: Right-of-way.
10 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, there's a really
11 good reason why you can't go through down though the
12 same pipe.
13 THE AUDIENCE: It's not the same pipe. It's
14 the right-of-way.
15 MR. WILLIAMS: The right-of-way, and that's
16 something that we would have to look at. Quite
17 frankly, I'm not familiar with that easement. I know
18 that we did look at doing the preliminary layout at
19 what made the most sense for us. And through this area
20 the first glance we looked at was the Georgia Power
21 easement and being adjacent to that.
22 MR. HELMLY: Okay. And the rest of my
23 question.
24 MR. FORE: The other part was about the
25 payment to the landowners, the one-time payment for the
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1 easement. So if we have property as Brian mentioned

2 that we need to purchase in fee for facilities, we will
3 do that.
4 The negotiation with the landowner, and this
5 is standard process for our company and generally for
6 companies that are locating infrastructure, pipeline
7 infrastructure, will do a baseline survey of property
8 values in a particular area and that will be the
9 beginning of a discussion point with the individual
10 landowner. The property value and in the future the
11 property value will all be part of that discussion.
12 So each landowner will have a negotiation with
13 our land agents on the value of their property, and
14 issues like you brought up can be discussed at that
15 time on a one-on-one transaction with our land agents.
16 We as a company are committed to working with
17 landowners on the valuation of the property and how we
18 utilize the property during construction and
19 restoration. It's a lengthy process and we want the
20 process to go well.
21 And we deal with thousands and thousands of
22 landowners every day on our pipeline systems, our 8,000
23 miles of pipe, and it doesn't just end when we finish
24 our project. This is a process that continues as you
25 mentioned. So we want to make sure that the
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1 right-of-way is restored, that the landowner concerns

2 are taken into account up front.
3 And again this is Brian and I up here in front
4 of you talking, but I think also people talked about
5 companies and records and what we do. You can also
6 look at what we do from a perspective of where we
7 currently operate our pipe in the State of Georgia and
8 how we've taken care of it, how we deal with landowners
9 in the area, and I think that in many ways speaks for
10 itself.
11 MR. HELMLY: The code of a petroleum pipeline
12 where it says basically the petroleum pipeline, there's
13 several things in a row about the 20 Code.
14 MR. CHALLY: Sir, I'm not exactly sure what
15 you're referencing. I believe you're talking about the
16 Georgia law that pipeline companies -17 MR. HELMLY: Petroleum.
18 MR. CHALLY: Yeah, petroleum pipeline
19 companies to operate. Your specific question though is
20 a little too general.
21 MR. HELMLY: Well, it says in what I read in
22 the 20 Code that really we can't keep you off our
23 property if you want to come in and survey, you can do
24 it if you read that.
25 I didn't bring the 20 dash so and so and so
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1 and so. But when you search it, it comes up with three
2 of them that's specifically related to petroleum
3 pipelines and, you know, what you can and can't do and
4 come on the property and such things as that.
5 MR. CHALLY: What I would say in response is
6 that Allen described the property rights his company is
7 seeking here. Those are easements. Easements are
8 defined. They authorize the company to do certain
9 things, and those are the rights that we would be
10 seeking from individual landowners.
11 MR. HELMLY: And will you use eminent domain
12 if the landowner decides not to take what you offer?
13 MR. CHALLY: This is a project -14 MR. HELMLY: Yes or no?
15 THE AUDIENCE: That's the purpose of the
16 meeting, isn't it, 22383, you have to hold the public
17 meeting before you can start condemning land. So the
18 purpose of the meeting is so that you can exercise your
19 right of eminent domain. That's why you're having
20 it.
21 MR. CHALLY: Let's be fair. The purpose of
22 the meeting, we are having this meeting at the DOT's
23 request because we are receiving the DOT's approval,
24 their conclusion that we are within the public
25 convenience and necessity. That's why we're here.
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1 THE AUDIENCE: And to get that certificate you

2 have to have that meeting which is the only reason you
3 have it because 22383 says you have to.
4 MR. CHALLY: We're having the meeting for the
5 reasons that we described earlier. But I would say
6 this. If you have a specific comment, we can address
7 it. It doesn't do good for the court reporter for us
8 to go back and forth.
9 What I would say in response to the
10 gentleman's question is that we're seeking easements
11 and that's ultimately what we need. The project is -12 THE AUDIENCE: That's not the answer.
13 MR. CHALLY: I understand, but the project is
14 of significant importance though. And there may be
15 instances where not all landowners are able to agree,
16 and we'll address that at the time it arises.
17 MR. HELMLY: And, yes or no, will you use
18 eminent domain?
19 MR. CHALLY: I think that to the extent that
20 the -21 MR. HELMLY: I think you said yes.
22 MR. CHALLY: We will use the power that
23 Georgia law authorizes us to have to get the property
24 necessary to complete our project.
25 THE AUDIENCE: That's a yes.
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1 MR. HELMLY: To make the profits for your

2 company at the expense of the landowners.
3 MR. ZIPPERER: I'm Allen Zipperer,
5 I'm pretty sure you were involved in the Elba

6 Express and you remember me on that, right?
7 MR. CHALLY: I believe it was the Cypress
8 matter, right.
9 MR. ZIPPERER: Okay. I'm going to tell you
10 guys how far it goes. They come to you. They offered
11 me a small amount of money offered for the lifetime use
12 of my land and I turned it down. They came back down a
13 month later and offered me half that.
14 So we had to hire lawyers and go to court to
15 try to get what was right. That's how Kinder Morgan
16 treats the landowner because I'm one that you treated
17 that way, the Elba Express pipeline.
18 So I mean I'm watching you stand up here
19 telling everybody what great corporate citizens you
20 are, but I'm a guy who had to spend a lot of money with
21 lawyers to get a pittance of what my land was worth.
22 So I couldn't sit there no longer and hear you
23 talk about how good you are because I am one of those
24 guys that they took the land from.
25 THE AUDIENCE: I am one too.
03/10/2015
1 MR. ZIPPERER: Exactly. And now you have a

2 line in your agreement -- I know you're not familiar
3 with it but I am because I have a copy of it. You took
4 a line, you took a 50-foot I think easement through our
5 property for a 14 or a 16-inch pipeline and the right
6 to put other existing lines as Kinder Morgan saw
7 necessary. Okay?
8 You already have an easement all the way to
9 Florida. Why don't you just get in that easement and
10 put your line down and leave everybody else alone?
11 THE AUDIENCE: Amen.
12 MR. WILLIAMS: I can appreciate -- I
13 understand what you're saying. I understand where
14 you're coming from. We do not like to have results
15 like that.
16 Now, as far as using the existing Cypress
17 pipeline right-of-way, we would need to spend some more
18 time taking a look at that one. The route that we have
19 identified was again, like I told you, that is our
20 preliminary, our primary route that we're looking at is
21 the one that makes the most sense for us right now.
22 Now, we're always open to looking at other
23 options. And, you know, we did mention that we will be
24 paralleling the Cypress pipeline from Savannah
25 southward.
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1 THE AUDIENCE: We're Savannah north.

2 MR. WILLIAMS: I understand that.
3 THE AUDIENCE: We don't much care about
4 Savannah south. We're Savannah north.
5 MR. WILLIAMS: I won't tell anybody you said
6 that. We'll be down in Brunswick later in the week.
7 MR. CHALLY: Okay. Yes, sir. For the benefit
8 of the court reporter, she's having a little bit of a
9 hard time hearing the comments that are made.
10 MR. PUTNAM: My name is Michael Putnam, and I
11 live at
12 I have a number of written comments, many of
13 which have been expressed. I am not a landowner in the
14 project area and I know that it must be tough for some
15 of you.
16 I've had the great pleasure to travel through
17 the wetlands of the Savannah River and to fish in
18 various regions of that river. I know folks here who
19 have hunted and fished in that area, some of them for
20 six, seven and eight decades.
21 I don't speak to oppose the pipeline though I
22 know there are various environmental groups and
23 individuals here who will continue to oppose it as well
24 as landowners.
25 I'm aware that during some 18 months of
03/10/2015
1 construction there will be significant deterioration

2 and disruption of terrestrial and aquatic resources in
3 the disruptions of all forms of natural recreational
4 opportunities that these areas provide.
5 I've reviewed information provided by Kinder
6 Morgan, the Plantation pipeline company, Palmetto as
7 well as information by the various news outlets in the
8 groups opposed to the project. I really appreciated
9 all the information I could find online, so that was
10 amazing to me once I started looking for it.
11 A number of comments here have already been
12 talked about. We the public will hold you responsible
13 for that pipeline's operation. We know that there are
14 minor releases that are reported, but we know there
15 have been some major ones as well. So we're assuming
16 that you're going to live up to your word on that.
17 The information on the 360-mile project says
18 it will cost about a billion dollars. Well, I'm not a
19 mathematician but that's something like 2.7 million
20 dollars a mile. That's amazing.
21 It also talks about a 50 foot right-of-way.
22 Well, there's 5,280 feet in a mile and there's 360
23 miles. That's a tremendously wide swath of the
24 resources in the wetlands, riverbanks, river bottoms of
25 these three states.
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1 I believe this project provides a wonderful

2 opportunity to the three companies of this pipeline and
3 its users to provide real leadership in the industry by
4 respecting the resources they are allowed to use and
5 the people who own and/or use them.
6 I believe the company should provide
7 mitigation for the disruption caused during
8 construction and for future operation. The 27 million
9 dollars or more I'm suggesting that something like
10 one-tenth of one percent of the pipeline cost be
11 provided for recreational and habitat improvements in
12 the construction area and for annual maintenance of
13 associated facilities.
14 While construction equipment and employees are
15 there, you could provide new and/or improved access
16 road, recreational facilities both on sites, fish
17 cleaning stations and improve wildlife and fisheries
18 habitat.
19 As you will receive millions of dollars
20 annually for the pipeline use, it is only reasonable
21 that you would provide funding for the maintenance of
22 such facilities and sites.
23 It seems a minimal effort and a very, very
24 small percentage of the cost is needed to leave behind
25 a most positive legacy. Improved recreation and
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1 fisheries opportunities would greatly benefit the area

2 you are seeking to use.
3 In closing my question is what will you leave
4 behind?
5 MR. FORE: Those are good comments. And I
6 said at the beginning of the meeting, if you'll recall,
7 is it's not about what a company says the first night
8 they're talking about the project. It's what folks say
9 when we're finished.
10 And I heard from a couple of landowners here
11 tonight that were not happy about their experience with
12 us before. I'm not familiar with that, but it's
13 something that certainly I'd like to know more about.
14 My job at the company is exactly what you're
15 talking about is our relationship with communities and
16 states throughout the country. So we are committed to
17 that. And take a look at our assets and what we're
18 doing now.
19 Now, there are -- I don't dispute what was
20 said tonight, but usually our relationships with
21 landowners is well over 95 percent are resolved to the
22 landowner's satisfaction. That's a pretty good number.
23 It's not perfect and we can do better, but it's a
24 pretty good number of landowners being satisfied with
25 what we have done and how we have treated them through
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1 the construction and operation process.

2 So what we commit to do is to being a company
3 that is respected, and what happens here in this county
4 in Sylvania and surrounding communities happens all
5 across the country. We don't live in a vacuum. At the
6 meeting here tonight there are folks who are opposed to
7 the project. What we do is scrutinized and reported
8 not just by the regulatory folks but by everyone.
9 We build pipelines and operate pipelines. So
10 unless we do it right here, it affects our entire
11 system so our reputation is very important. And again
12 we're not a perfect company. We're always striving to
13 be better but -- and that wasn't time to fall just as I
14 said that.
15 But we're committed to working with all folks
16 including those who are not supportive of the project
17 to try to make this project better and to leave a
18 project that we can be proud of because it's important
19 to us, it's important to you, it's important to all the
20 stakeholders that are part of the project. That's our
21 commitment.
22 MR. CHALLY: Okay. Yes, sir.
23 MR. SMOAK: My name is Dan Smoak,
The reason I want to stand up here and say a
03/10/2015
1 few things and I'm probably going to take it as I'm for

2 the pipeline. This doesn't affect me. I don't have
3 any land. It's not going to go through my property.
4 Two years ago I live on Highway 21 up here.
5 When you see ten trucks go by with fuel in a day go to
6 a hundred trucks a day, you start wondering what's
7 going on here? Well, it all comes down to one thing.
8 Anybody ever hear of the Jones Act of 1920? All right.
9 It's also called the Merchant Marine Act of 1920.
10 These guys know what I'm talking about.
11 MR. FORE: Yeah, we're familiar.
12 MR. SMOAK: Okay. And you're going to wonder
13 what in the world has that got to do with pipeline.
14 THE AUDIENCE: Must be a lot if they know
15 about it.
16 MR. SMOAK: It requires if anybody ships a
17 product from the port in the United States, it's got to
18 be put on an American-built ship, an American-owned
19 ship and an American-manned ship, which means you put
20 fuel on a ship in Houston, Texas, and take it to
21 Savannah, Georgia, it's got to be on one of them ships.
22 They don't have no choice. It's law. It's
23 just for y'all to take into consideration. That's why
24 I'm here to tell you. And I often wondered what in the
25 world is going to happen with all their trucks, and all
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1 that's leveled out some. It's not like it was.

2 But they come by seven days a week. They haul
3 hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel through this
4 county every single day, diesel fuel, gas, jet fuel.
5 truck comes right by my house. Sunday morning at 9:25

6 I get in my truck to come to Sunday school and there's
7 a truck right behind me. They don't ever stop, seven
8 days a week.
9 All right. The problem or what the situation
10 is in the 1950s there was a thousand ships out there.
11 By the year 2000 there was 200 ships. 2014 there is 94
12 ships out there. There's only 13 of those ships that
13 can haul fuel, only 13 ships.
14 So what I'm saying is Colonial Oil down here
15 in Savannah I think was in the port of shutting down
16 because they cannot get fuel or didn't want to pay the
17 price. All of a sudden they started going to Augusta,
18 Georgia, getting the fuel and shipping it. And it goes
19 all the way through here, it goes all the way down
20 there, it goes to Richmond Hill. I see the same trucks
21 come by my house down there at Richmond Hill.
22 So that's something to think about, you know,
23 when you're talking about this, you know, the long
24 term. And there's some sort of monopoly these shipping
25 companies got on them, you know. You can Google it.
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1 That's what I did on some of this information.
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2 couple of years ago I got interested in it, and I went

3 back recently and looked up some more information, you
4 know, to refresh my memory.
5 THE AUDIENCE: So, David, what are you saying,
6 that you think there will be less trucks hauling fuel?
7 MR. PUTMAN: Well, currently all these -- I'm
8 assuming some of these trucks may be going to Macon to
9 get fuel. Most of them are going to North Augusta to
10 get this fuel. I mean they come through this county.
11 I mean, you know, if you don't travel Highway 21 you
12 probably don't see a lot of them.
13 THE AUDIENCE: I see them coming back by the
14 bypass where my property is.
15 MR. PUTMAN: They come through town.
16 THE AUDIENCE: Yeah. They come through the
17 front of the house or they come through the back of the
18 house. They hit me both ways.
19 MR. PUTMAN: I actually asked our county fire
20 chief one day, you know, are you prepared and he said I
21 believe we are, you know, if something bad happens.
22 And that's just something to think about. This doesn't
23 affect me. It doesn't go through my land.
24 I just wanted to inform people of what, you
25 know, what's going on, you know, getting gas off of a
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1 boat versus getting it out of a pipeline. You know,

2 what's the long-term? And I'm going to tell you
3 Senator McCain, he introduced the law I think last year
4 to get this law appealed. It's 94 years old and it's
5 still on the books and they've having to abide by it.
6 MR. CHALLY: Thank you. Okay. Further
7 questions. Yes, ma'am.
8 MS. ANDERSON: My name is Jardene Anderson.
We talked about the effective economics of

11 this pipeline it would create, but there's one thing I
12 still want answered. This company has talked about
13 that they would move their line enough that it would
14 preserve the battleground. But they didn't say where
15 they're going to move it to or how far they're going to
16 move it and how far are they going to move it.
17 I want to know and I want it answered for the
18 record what impact will the pipeline have on the
19 battleground after all the dust settles? Will there be
20 any impact on the battleground?
21 THE AUDIENCE: And Toccoa.
22 MS. ANDERSON: And Toccoa.
23 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. We've moving the
24 pipeline. I mentioned earlier we've identified an
25 alternate route. We're not quite prepared to talk
1 about that yet because one of the things we have to do

2 is work with the property owners along this identified
3 route. And we have right-of-way agents out that are
4 working on that now beginning this week, and after that
5 we'll be able to publicize that route.
6 I will tell you that what we're looking at is
7 moving well away from the battlefield, and also we're
8 looking at doing one of those horizontal directional
9 drills under Briar Creek at a point where the wildlife
10 management area is at its narrowest, okay, to minimize
11 impact there.
12 And we have been talking with the E and R
13 folks about the wildlife management areas also because
14 we want to minimize impact in those. Okay.
15 THE AUDIENCE: Are you saying it will impact
16 the battlefield or not?
17 MR. WILLIAMS: No, sir. We do not intend to
18 impact the battlefield.
19 MR. CHALLY: Further questions? Yes, ma'am.
20 MS. BODDIFORD: My name is Debo Boddiford,
21 D-e-b-o, B-o-d-d-i-f-o-r-d,
I have a few questions and I wrote them down

24 so that way you'll make sure you answer them. I want
25 to know where the so-called permanent jobs are going to
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1 be located.
2 Some of our families previously met with some
3 Kinder Morgan folks. Their number greatly varied from
4 the number you all offered, and I want to know if any
5 of those jobs will be in Screven County or anywhere
6 near Screven County.
7 You mentioned the control center is in
8 Atlanta, so I assume most of the jobs may be there.
9 may be wrong. I'm sure there will be some at the

10 pumping stations perhaps in Augusta and Savannah but
11 I'd like to know that.
12 Our family would like to know how much of this
13 gas that's going to be floating through our property is
14 going to be exported to the Savannah and Jacksonville
15 ports. I'd like to know how often and how the pipeline
16 easement is inspected for leaks.
17 And getting back to the easements that Kinder
18 Morgan already has for natural gas, on a previous map
19 you showed this pipeline already goes, the gasoline
20 pipeline already goes to Macon. You showed a natural
21 gas pipeline that looked like it went to about
22 Brunswick.
23 Why can't you follow your Kinder Morgan
24 existing natural gas pipeline from this area down
25 there? Why are you encroaching on more, you know,
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1 landowners and getting in the wetlands of the Savannah

2 River when you've already got easements?
3 I always had wondered in the past if maybe you
4 cannot have gasoline and natural gas flowing side by
5 side on the same easement. But you said, you know, you
6 told us you can because you've already got it going
7 down into Florida.
8 So I mean, you know -- you said you don't know
9 about this natural gas on the western side of Screven
10 County, but surely you know about the one that you've
11 already got on your map that you showed us on the
12 previous slide. No, I got more questions.
13 MR. FORE: She's got more questions.
14 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I'm running out of
15 fingers.
16 MS. BODDIFORD: Well, I've got a list.
17 THE AUDIENCE: She's giving you the list to go
18 over.
19 MS. BODDIFORD: I'm giving you the list. I'm
20 from a farming and a logging family, and they want to
21 know why there are load restrictions for crossing the
22 pipe. I know you said you're going to bury it for four
23 feet and you act like you're going above and beyond.
24 This is sandy soil and it's wet. And you can
25 expect a good bit of erosion in many of the places
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1 you're going to put it in the Savannah River. And you

2 said man tends to create most of the leaks.
3 Well, you put a log truck out there on top of
4 this or do you know how big farm machinery and how
5 heavy it is these days and how deep those plows go? So
6 anyway that's just something else that we would like -7 I know my husband is back in the back and he would like
8 an answer.
9 I also have just a statement that I'd like to
10 make. As a former educator, I look at words and the
11 meaning of words, and you're here to obtain a
12 certificate of public convenience and necessity.
13 looked up the word public in the dictionary.

14 The word public in the dictionary says
15 concerning the people as a whole, open to and/or shared
16 by the people of an area or a region. I don't think
17 you've met that with this at least for Screven County.
18 Convenience; that means sustainability or
19 accommodating, anything that saves or simplifies work
20 or adds to one's ease or comfort.
21 Necessity means being required or
22 indispensable. I don't think this has been required.
23 From what I've gathered we're not going to get a drop
24 of oil in Screven County or gasoline from this pipe and
25 I don't know if we're going to get any jobs. So that
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1 means to me it's not a necessity, it's not required,

2 it's not indispensable.
3 Convenience; in my family we try to do it the
4 cheapest way we can, the shortest way we can.
5 THE AUDIENCE: That's why they're not using
6 that other pipeline.
7 MS. BODDIFORD: So if that's the truth, why
8 aren't you using existing easements that you already
9 have. Then you don't have to fight these battles and
10 have these meetings. You know, kill two birds with one
11 easement.
12 Getting back to the convenience where it's
13 supposed to add to one's ease or comfort, it does not
14 add to the comfort and the ease of the people of
15 Screven County to have our creeks, our wetlands and our
16 rivers that we so love, that we fish, to have them
17 potentially destroyed by a gasoline leak.
18 It does not add to our comfort or it's not
19 suitable for you to put a pipeline through a
20 battlefield and I know you promised you won't. We also
21 have Civil War, the battlefield sites. We also have
22 Native American where they lived and where they're
23 buried. We have a lot of things up the Savannah River
24 corridor that need to be considered.
25 And as a mother and I hope a grandmother one
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1 day, it does not add to my ease and my comfort or the

2 necessity for my children and my descendants to have to
3 pay taxes on your easement forever but they're never
4 going to be able to grow timber ever again. So that
5 doesn't add to my comfort.
6 So here's the questions. Have at it.
7 (Handing document.)
8 MR. WILLIAMS: All right. Ma'am, thank you
9 for leaving us your questions because I was out of
10 fingers.
11 All right. Where will the permanent jobs be?
12 We talked about 28 jobs will be created by this
13 project. There will be five pipeline controllers that
14 will work shift work to cover the operating console to
15 run this pipeline around the clock.
16 There will be at least one pipeline scheduler
17 behind them to help them plan the deliveries and work
18 the schedule for how they run that pipeline. Those
19 jobs are at Alpharetta, Georgia, outside of Atlanta.
20 Okay?
21 And there will be -- there will be -- Let's
22 see, I think we've got one job or two jobs up in Belton
23 in the Savannah area. We will have four jobs at a
24 terminal that will be built there, and there will be
25 another probably four jobs at a pipeline pump station
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1 and maintenance facility somewhere in that area.

2 We've not yet located that. That will be
3 co-located with one of those pipeline pump stations
4 we've talked about. And then there will be probably in
5 south Georgia, there will probably be another one or
6 two maintenance positions. I haven't done all my math
7 but that's fairly close. So no, I'm sorry, here in the
8 county we're not looking at any permanent jobs.
9 Now, one thing that Allen mentioned was we're
10 anticipating a very large construction workforce moving
11 through. And when those folks do come through, they
12 spend money locally, they stay in hotels, they eat,
13 they buy gas, they buy goods and services.
14 Let's see, how much of the gas is being
15 exported from Savannah and Jacksonville? Well, what
16 the gentleman who was up here just a moment ago talking
17 about the Jones Act really hit on a key piece of this
18 because the customers who have committed to ship on
19 this pipeline, they are recognizing that Savannah and
20 Jacksonville markets are currently for the most part
21 served by marine.
22 They're recognizing that that's getting
23 tougher and tougher to do and that's why they're
24 interested in bringing in a pipeline. They also
25 recognize that in addition to the fewer number of
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1 vessels that when you have a hurricane whether it's in

2 the Atlantic or in the gulf, it impacts shipments on
3 the eastern seaboard because all of the petroleum that
4 we're consuming here in the southeast comes out from
5 the band from about Houston.
6 There's a little bit in Corpus Christi, huge
7 production centers around Houston and Baytown, Baton
8 Rouge all the way down to New Orleans and then a
9 refinery over in Pascagoula. That's where we get our
10 gas, our diesel, our jet fuel.
11 And Kinder Morgan has no involvement in
12 exporting anywhere. Our customers are not talking
13 about exporting, they're talking about importing, and
14 the facility that we intend to build south of Savannah
15 and probably will be a little south of Richmond Hill
16 where we will have the tank farm and truckloading is
17 landlocked. It has no access to the port.
18 How often and how is the pipeline easement
19 inspected? There's a requirement from again that
20 federal agency PHMSA that at least 26 times a year, no
21 more than three weeks in between time an operating
22 company inspect that easement. Most of us in the
23 industry pay a company to fly the right-of-ways for us.
24 And in Kinder Morgan we try to -- we're
25 committed to hitting that regulatory requirement 26
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1 times a year. Our goal is and we almost always do it

2 is fly in those right-of-ways weekly. We also have
3 technicians who are out and about on that right-of-way.
4 They're the ones that would be meeting with
5 people who want to cross the pipeline whether it's
6 another utility who calls in through that 811 dig
7 number or whether it is someone who is driving heavy
8 equipment across this or harvesting timber.
9 And our local folks will meet with those
10 people, and typically to accommodate say a log
11 truckload, the weights and axle loading are provided by
12 the operator who wishes to cross the pipeline. And
13 that's crunched through -- our engineer folks have an
14 analysis that they go through and determine how to
15 appropriately pad on top of the pipeline prior to
16 allowing that traffic to go across.
17 Sometimes it can be done with an earthen pad.
18 Frequently in soils like we'll see around here I would
19 anticipate that we will have timber mats on top of the
20 line. And then, of course, the depth of those timber
21 mats is based on the individual wheel loads.
22 THE AUDIENCE: At y'all cost or the customer's
23 expense?
24 MR. WILLIAMS: Whoever wishes to cross us it's
25 at their expense.
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1 Why can't Kinder Morgan natural gas easement

2 from Macon to Brunswick be used? Okay. There's
3 actually two different -- I'm very familiar with this
4 piece of easement. That is for an eight-inch products
5 pipeline that serves the Macon and military base
6 community down there.
7 That is only a 30-foot wide easement. I am
8 not personally familiar with one that goes down beyond
9 that. But I do know -- Excuse me, madam. I do know
10 that the reason that the line originates in the Belton
11 community is because the customers who are interested
12 in supporting this pipeline are interested in
13 delivering in Augusta, Savannah and Jacksonville.
14 And Augusta is the key to coming off or why we
15 come off up at Belton and have this route to catch all
16 of those locations. There were alternatives that were
17 evaluated coming out of Bremen, Georgia. Those results
18 actually in greater distances. And, let's see, I know
19 in at least one of the options we looked at it would
20 involve actually more impact on non co-located
21 easements, in other words, more brand new easement
22 would be required.
23 Let's see, what do we have? We talked about
24 loads crossing. And an acknowledgment that this is
25 sandy soils. We do have to be very careful about
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1 people utilizing easements for four-wheeling. And most

2 property owners aren't interested in having
3 four-wheelers run up and down the easement either
4 because it's their property.
5 THE AUDIENCE: They do.
6 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, the comment up here
7 was but people do it. Yeah, that's an acknowledgement.
8 It's mostly a young male thing.
9 THE AUDIENCE: Not necessarily. Young girls
10 do.
11 MR. WILLIAMS: All right. Okay. I think that
12 was it.
13 MR. CHALLY: All right. You had your hand
14 raised a number of times.
15 MS. EVANS: All right. Thank you.
16 MR. FORE: Margaret Evans,
. As mayor I was authorized to
18 preserve a proclamation, a resolution today for the
19 protection of the Brier Creek battle site and for the
20 graves.
21 It's not necessary for me to read this
22 resolution, but I just want to thank you for your
23 consideration in this because the way I feel about it,
24 there are 150 men that are buried out there that lost
25 their lives in the battle of Brier Creek. They gave
1 their lives for us, and now it's time for us to defend
2 theirs. Thank you very much.
3 MR. CHALLY: So as I said, we'll be around
4 later. We're not shutting it down. There's a handful
5 of hands raised. We'll go ahead and grab those, but
6 then we want to remind you that we'll be around once
7 the meeting is concluded to answer additional questions
8 that you may have.
9 Yes, sir.
10 MR. HICKS: My name is Harry Hicks. I'm at
11
12 I don't see a whole lot of young faces in this
13 room. I mean I'm not saying that there's not. I'm 65
14 years old. I'm retired here in Screven County and I
15 love this place.
16 In your history have you ever been -- Since
17 the '70s we've been watching these town meetings and
18 corporate guys come in and they give their spiel
19 knowing that you don't know anything. And when they're
20 done, you've had your meeting. How many meetings have
21 you watched on the news against these guys and when
22 they make promises and promises and promises and for
23 the most part the promises are never fulfilled.
24 In this county they're talking about this -25 And I'm really blind to all of us. But the necessity,
03/10/2015
1 I don't see the necessity, the public necessity,

2 because the one thing I noticed in this up here when
3 they said something about benefits, well, first off was
4 the 1200 jobs.
5 If you don't Kinder -- Kinder Morgan doesn't
6 already have fully ample crews with trucks and tig
7 welders and mig welders and heavy equipment operators
8 and their own heavy equipment, you're sadly mistaken.
9 So the number of those temporary jobs, they belong to
10 Kinder Morgan anyway for the most part.
11 Them guys aren't going to come here and stay
12 in Sylvania and stay down here at the green cottage and
13 rent the green lamp motel and the swamp army depot. It
14 happens time and time again. They already know what
15 they're going to do. It hasn't been brought to any
16 type of public referendum. There has been no public
17 necessity demonstrated to this group for Screven
18 County. There's been no public convenience and there
19 is no benefit.
20 Now, what about the trucks? And that's an
21 issue because, you know, with the pollution and all the
22 stuff that goes with the trucks. But you think on the
23 other hand, that pipeline is going to limit a lot of
24 trucks. And you know what that means to the suppliers
25 that are utilizing that pipeline. They don't got to
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1 pay truck drivers. They don't got to pay mechanics.

2 They don't got to pay yards.
3 They don't have to do nothing except put it in
4 the pipe and shoot it down the line, and that's going
5 to eliminate a lot of jobs. How many people in here
6 know truck drivers around here? A lot of truck
7 drivers. So, you know, where you can benefits it
8 doesn't exist. It's not going to exist in Screven
9 County.
10 And then it said that the other part of the
11 benefits was that the market at the terminals or
12 something to that nature, the only people that's
13 benefiting from the pipeline is the people that it's
14 emptying at the end and filling it at the start and
15 that's all you'll ever see.
16 And I'm kind of surprised not knowing anything
17 about it why there hasn't been any kind of public
18 referendum where they can just run through and get the
19 permits which they already are in the process of
20 getting, and you know sometimes and I'm not -- it's
21 tongue in cheek, some permits around here are awful
22 easy to get and with the state it's the same way.
23 So when you think about it, what is the result
24 of this meeting to begin with except to satisfy what
25 they're required to do? That's all that's happening.
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1 So if they got to go further, you got to find a way to

2 take it there.
3 But it's been my experience in all the town
4 meetings I've attended, and I'm not an activist.
5 just like to know what's going on in my community when

6 big business wants to come in. That's what you need to
7 find out.
8 That's really all I got to say.
9 MR. WILLIAMS: I respectfully disagree with
10 you on the number of jobs that are talked about here.
11 There's 1200 temporary construction jobs that we're
12 looking at during the duration of this construction
13 period.
14 There will be a number of pipeline
15 construction companies involved in building this
16 cross-country pipeline. There are probably only about,
17 I don't know, two dozen, maybe three dozen good
18 cross-country pipeline spread crews in the United
19 States.
20 Those guys are staffed by specialists who know
21 how to do that type of work. And those are the guys -22 the guys that we're going to see move in from some of
23 these companies that move all over the place, all over
24 the U.S., those guys are your superintendents and your
25 foremen and your crew lead type folks.
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1 There will be local laborers hired because the

2 contractors don't move those guys around. That's just
3 how it works. So there will be some impact there
4 locally. Just a clarification, we don't use tig and
5 mig welding.
6 THE AUDIENCE: Whatever.
7 MR. WILLIAMS: We do weld. And, you know,
8 welding, sometimes I see welders come in from other
9 parts of the country. But also, you know, pipeline
10 welders are from all over the country, and I also see
11 contractors pick up local welders when they can pass
12 the pipeline certification testing particularly in the
13 station facilities you see.
14 I do expect to see some local hiring. I don't
15 know what that number is, and that's really something
16 that our contractors will be determining. But there
17 will be some local impact as we move along.
18 MR. FORE: And the -- we shouldn't understate
19 the economic impact too. And again we talked to folks
20 where we've built our pipelines and the chambers of
21 commerce that are part of a small business community
22 and we'll be part of the chamber of commerce here too.
23 The small businesses that service hundreds of
24 construction workers in an area benefit.
25 It's millions of dollars to them. It's tax
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1 revenue to them from a sales tax perspective and the

2 taxing bodies. So it is a significant local impact but
3 temporary. But we're talking six months to a year of
4 significant impact, and the more services that a town
5 has, the more likely the pipeliners are to temporarily
6 reside in that particular area.
7 So this county and where you were located,
8 you're going see a significant economic impact over a
9 short period of time. I mentioned before the longer
10 period is the taxes. So we're estimating about
11 $700,000 a year in ad valorem taxes to the county
12 taxing bodies.
13 That doesn't mean the county is going to get
14 every bit of that, but the school district or whatever
15 taxing bodies we pass through where the pipe actually
16 passes, that will be a distributed on an annual basis.
17 That's not a one-time payment. That's once
18 we're in service based upon the value of the pipe
19 itself. It will be paid each year to the local taxing
20 bodies. So a short-term economic impact from the
21 construction process, long term from taxes.
22 MR. CHALLY: All right. If there's no further
23 questions, we'll conclude. I saw one hand fly up at
24 the end. Go right ahead. Come on up.
25 MR. ATTAWAY: Joseph Attaway, A-t-t-a-w-a-y,
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1
These people are talking about buying your
3 land. We talked about environmental risk. We talked
4 about benefits the jobs will bring. If you go to their
5 website, you can actually see a listing from that
6 wonderful U.S. Department of Transportation.
7 The pipeline has a material safety
8 administration emergency response guideline that lists
9 some of the chemicals that will be going through these
10 pipelines including benzene which is know to cause
11 cancer, anemia, decreased blood platelets.
12 They mentioned ethanol, the vapors of which
13 can cause dizziness or asphyxiation without warning and
14 are heavier and can actually sink to the ground and
15 collect in your basement.
16 Some chemicals that are on the contaminant
17 candidate list meaning that there risks that they don't
18 actually know what the risks are including Halon 1011,
19 which is a fire extinguishing fluid to be used to put
20 out a fire in the case of unfortunately an explosion,
21 which these things do happen, hexane which is a
22 gasoline component, methanol, a gasoline additive, and
23 a chemical called NDEA which is also a gas additive.
24 And frankly they just don't know the dangers
25 of these chemicals, but anytime I see something that
03/10/2015
1 says cancer, today is the birthday of my cousin

2 Caroline Morgan Eiser (phon). She would have been 23.
3 Unfortunately, she died at the age of 21. She died of
4 leukemia, a very aggressive form of cancer. The
5 diagnosis to death was 13 days.
6 So anytime you see something that's going into
7 our water, into our wildlife, into our soil and plants
8 and it's a cancer-causing agent that's a known
9 carcinogen, we need to be extremely careful. Now,
10 there are guidelines under the Federal Water Pollution
11 Control Act that will penalty action that will state
12 how much we can be paid according to a settlement from
13 the government if there is an accident.
14 But my question to you gentlemen is when
15 someone, my child or grandchild, my niece or my nephew
16 comes down with cancer from a chemical pumping through
17 your pipeline, what can you do about it? Thank you.
18 MR. WILLIAMS: Don't run off. Okay. Thank
19 you. I do appreciate your concern. And what this
20 young man has just listed for the most part are
21 constituents of gasoline and we're all aware of that.
22 We all know that we do need to be very careful around
23 gasoline.
24 You did mention methanol. That is no longer a
25 constituent of gasoline. You did mention a fire
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1 fighting agent, Halon, that's now banned, that

2 particular one. It worked really well so it's now
3 banned and we have to use other things.
4 You know, I don't want to minimize -- I don't
5 want to minimize risk. This pipeline that we're
6 talking about moving will move different grades of
7 gasoline. We're consuming those today.
8 It will move one grade of diesel. That's
9 on-road diesel, ultra low sulphur diesel, and it will
10 move some denatured ethanol. Denatured ethanol is a
11 blend material that is blended. It's an oxygenating
12 gasoline at the end-user terminals. Right before it
13 goes in the truck, you go to your gas station, it's
14 blended in, and that is at the direction of the federal
15 EPA by the way.
16 And denatured ethanol is just, it's an ethanol
17 that typically in the petroleum industry is denatured
18 by adding -- you take a hundred proof alcohol and then
19 you put 2 to 3 percent gasoline in it. That's to keep
20 people from drinking it. Pardon? It sounds like a
21 shame, right? I'm sorry, that's the federal EPA
22 mandate.
23 So, no, I do not want to make light of what
24 goes through a pipeline. This young man did mention
25 and referred to the Open 90 regulation which talks
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1 about how emergency response is to be conducted.

2 Our company is very committed to that. We
3 train for that. All of our field personnel are trained
4 to the 40-hour or 25-hour hazardous materials
5 technician level and then every year they have an
6 eight-hour refresher training on that.
7 So thank you. Thank you for that concern.
8 THE AUDIENCE: Can you just clarify one more
9 thing about heavy equipment and four-wheelers possibly
10 going over the pipeline and harming it. I mean were
11 you mentioning that a four-wheeler could do some damage
12 to a pipeline? So then why can people farm over it?
13 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. Good questions. All
14 right. Heavy equipment, the restrictions there we
15 talked about padding. Typically heavy equipment cross
16 at 90-degree angles and minimizes the impact loading,
17 the impact and the loading over a pipe.
18 Four-wheelers, pipelines don't like
19 four-wheelers because they typically rut, they destroy
20 the vegetation, and it leads to rutting. And if you're
21 hilly terrain particularly, it leads to gullies and
22 washouts. So that's something we don't like. That's
23 one of the things that our aerial patrol looks for.
24 That's one of the things our guys out driving the
25 right-of-way routinely look for.
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1 And our guys driving the right-of-way try to

2 work with landowners to stop four-wheelers from
3 running. They've tried all manner of things. If
4 anyone has a foolproof method, please talk to me after
5 this. Let's see, you had one more question and it was
6 about heavy equipment, four-wheelers?
7 THE AUDIENCE: Well, just, you know, log
8 trucks if we want to get in to log our timber.
9 MR. WILLIAMS: Right.
10 THE AUDIENCE: You know, how are we -- We're
11 going to have to pay, I mean, for every road that goes
12 into our property we're going to have to pay for pads
13 to be put down so trucks can go over the pipeline?
14 My husband is a fertilizer dealer and his
15 trucks weigh, they're very heavy especially loaded.
16 And they're going to be going over fields potentially
17 if there's any farming done over the pipeline.
18 How is he supposed to know the exact route of
19 the pipeline through every field and know to go at a
20 right angle to it. What if it doesn't work out? Do
21 you know how heavy combines are? I mean I don't
22 understand how that is supposed to be accomplished.
23 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. Those are great
24 questions and good concerns, and I do see combines run
25 routinely over our line in the midwest and just
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1 finished one.
2 This gentleman just hit on a key thing. He
3 said combines ain't heavy at all or aren't heavy at
4 all. The wheel loading is not that bad. And that's
5 the key thing is how much pressure do they actually put
6 on the ground as they cross. And you can take a heavy
7 vehicle as long as it has lots of wheels and low impact
8 due to that, low pressure loading.
9 But what I'd like to do is if you have
10 specific concerns about the types of equipment I'd be
11 happy to discuss those with you afterwards and how we
12 routinely work those. Okay?
13 MR. CHALLY: Well, we thank everybody for your
14 time and for coming out this evening. That will
15 conclude the public comments portion of the meeting.
16 If you have further questions, please come up and ask
17 them. Thank you.
18 (Proceedings concluded at 6:45 p.m.)
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1 The following reporter and firm disclosures

were presented by me at this proceeding for review by
2 counsel:
3 REPORTER DISCLOSURES
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5

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The following representations and disclosures

are made in compliance with Georgia Law, more
specifically:
Article 10(B) of the Rules and Regulations of the
Board of Court Reporting (disclosure forms)
OCGA Section 9-11-28 (c) (disqualification of
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OCGA Sections 15-14-37 (a) and (b) (prohibitions
against contracts on a case-by-case basis)
I am a certified reporter in the State of Georgia.
I am an employee or independent contractor of
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I have been assigned to make a complete and
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I have no relationship of interest in the matter
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Tiffany Alley Global.
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TIFFANY ALLEY GLOBAL REPORTING & VIDEO

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1

2

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03/10/2015
Password-Protected Access: Transcripts and

exhibits relating to this proceeding will be uploaded
to a password-protected repository, to which all
ordering parties will have access.
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1 CERTIFICATE
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STATE OF GEORGIA:
COUNTY OF CHATHAM:
I hereby certify that the foregoing
transcript was taken down, as stated in the caption,
and the colloquies, questions, and answers were reduced
to typewriting under my direction; that the transcript
is a true and correct record of the evidence given upon
said proceeding.
I further certify that I am not a relative or
employee or attorney of any party, nor am I in
financially interested in the outcome of this action.
I have no relationship of interest in this
matter which would disqualify me from maintaining my
obligation of impartiality in compliance with the Code
of Professional Ethics.
I have no direct contract with any party in
this action and my compensation is based solely on the
terms of my agreement with my employer.
Nothing in the arrangements made for this
proceeding impacts my absolute commitment to serve all
parties as an impartial officer of the court.
This the 17th day of March 2015.
15
16 ___________________________________
17 Deborah K. Lingonis, RPR, CCR 2883
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03/10/2015
TIFFANY ALLEY GLOBAL REPORTING & VIDEO

FIRM CERTIFICATE AND DISCLOSURE
Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video represents that
the foregoing transcript as produced by our Production
Coordinators, Georgia Certified Notaries, is a true,
correct and complete transcript of the colloquies,
questions and answers as submitted by the certified
court reporter in this case. Tiffany Alley Global
further represents that the attached exhibits, if any,
are a true, correct and complete copy as submitted by
the certified reporter, attorneys or witness in this case;
and that the exhibits were handled and produced exclusively
through our Production Coordinators, Georgia Certified
Notaries. Copies of notarized production certificates
related to this proceeding are available upon request to
production@tiffanyalley.com.
Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video is not taking this
deposition under any relationship that is prohibited by
OCGA 15-14-37(a)and(b). Case-specific discounts are
automatically applied to all parties, at such time as any
party receives a discount. Ancillary services such as
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parties upon request.
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In The Matter Of:

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

March 10, 2015

106 South Community Drive

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

2 (Pursuant to OCGA 15-14-37 (a) and (b), a

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 MR. CHALLY: Let's go ahead and get started.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 In addition to this public comment meeting,

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 MR. CHALLY: February 26th. Do your best

4 would encourage you to submit a written comment within

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 two more yet this week. And it really begins a

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 is going to be, what we're proposing, an extension of

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 So those are two projects that already are in

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 that's what we want to do here tonight.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 that Plantation system built at Belton, which will be a

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 pipe. Let's go through a few basics for just a moment.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 We're still working through and finalizing the

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 line corridors. That's mostly along Georgia Power.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 and stake along that preliminary route.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 alternative, but we really need to pursue that a bit

24 hired on in this business in the early '80s, and I

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 piece of pipe. They didn't call it a piece of pipe.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 what pipeline right-of-ways look like.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 county. So part of that 4.9 million will be coming

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video