Transcript of Statements - Hinesville

In The Matter Of:
In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

________________________________________________________
Transcript of Statements
March 05, 2015
________________________________________________________
Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

730 Peachtree Street NE
Suite 470
Atlanta, GA 30308
770.343.9696
www.tiffanyalley.com
PUBLIC HEARING
IN RE: PALMETTO PIPELINE
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
March 5, 2015
5:05 p.m.
742 General Stewart Way
Hinesville, Georgia
Tracy A. Williams, B-2168, RPR
.
03/05/2015
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2 On behalf of Kinder Morgan:
3 ANDREW MUTTER, ESQ.
4 King & Spalding
5 1180 Peachtree Street, N.E.
6 Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3521
7 (404) 572-4705
8 ALAN FORE
9 BRIAN S. WILLIAMS, P.E.
10 Kinder Morgan
11 Suite 450
12 1000 Windward Concourse
13 Alpharetta, Georgia 30005
14 (770) 751-4248
15 On behalf of the Georgia Department of
16 Transportation:
17 MICHAEL J. BOLDEN, States Utility Engineer
18 Georgia Department of Transportation
19 10th Floor
20 600 West Peachtree Street, N.W.
21 Atlanta, Georgia 30308
22 (404) 631-1354
23
24
25
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1 MR. MUTTER: Good evening. Thank you so

2 much for coming out. My name is Andrew Mutter. And
3 I am an attorney with King & Spalding. We represent
4 Kinder Morgan through this process. Now, the purpose
5 of tonight is to give an opportunity for a public
6 hearing in this area regarding Kinder Morgan's
7 pipeline and give you a sense of what their plans
8 are. They're going to present to you, for about 15
9 to 20 minutes, to give you an overview of the plans
10 and a bird's-eye view of the project, and then we're
11 going to present an opportunity for you to formally
12 submit comments.
13 We have a court reporter here. She'll be
14 transcribing the hearing tonight. We ask in order to
15 create a record that will be preserved and then
16 presented to the Georgia Department of Transportation
17 as a part of Kinder Morgan's applications for
18 certificate of convenience and necessity, we ask that
19 you come to the front -- raise your hand, I'll
20 indicate for you to come to the front so that she can
21 hear you clearly. And you can make your comment or
22 question or objection, and Kinder Morgan will have an
23 opportunity to respond and try to address your
24 concerns. We ask that you please state your name to
25 the court reporter and spell it and give your address
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1 so that we have a record of who you are and we're

2 able, in conjunction with the Georgia Department of
3 Transportation, to address your comments.
4 Now, you have multiple opportunities to
5 make comments during this process. This is the very
6 beginning first phase of securing the applications of
7 the permits that Kinder Morgan needs for this
8 project. You can make your formal comment here in
9 this hearing. You can also write on the sign-in
10 sheet any comments that you might have, and you can
11 also write in to King & Spalding any written comments
12 that you might have within -- well, to be clear, the
13 Georgia Department of Transportation can rule on this
14 application at any time in the 90-day period after
15 the application is filed on February 13th. So we
16 would encourage you to submit your written comments,
17 if you have any, promptly. And that's another avenue
18 in which you can comment on this process. Just make
19 sure -- yeah, that's all.
20 I will come back up after Kinder Morgan has
21 made its presentation, and I will begin to moderate
22 the comment process. After that comment process is
23 over, which we hope to end at 6:00 tonight -- we
24 started a little late to get more people to come in.
25 But around 6:15 or so, we'll try to wind down the
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1 formal comment process, and Kinder Morgan is still

2 going to make itself available to you if you have
3 individual concerns and questions to talk to you on
4 an individual basis about your concerns. So with
5 that, I'll pass it off to Alan Fore with Kinder
6 Morgan.
7 MR. FORE: Okay. Thanks, Andrew. Brian,
8 you want to come up, too? Alan Fore, vice-president
9 with Kinder Morgan and Brian Williams, our project
10 director. And what we want to do tonight is give you
11 some general information about our project and tell
12 you why we're proposing, what we're doing, how we're
13 proposing to do it, when we're proposing to do it and
14 then be happy to respond to your questions.
15 And this really is the start of a lengthy
16 process for approval of our pipeline. We are
17 proposing a project that we believe is good for the
18 area and good for energy security and energy
19 infrastructure in the region. And then the
20 regulators, at the state and federal level, will
21 review our project and ultimately approve our
22 project.
23 So a little bit about what we do first
24 before we get into the specifics of our project.
25 Kinder Morgan is a transportation company primarily.
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1 We transport product. That can be gasoline, diesel,

2 jet fuel, natural gas, ethanol, other products, all
3 across the country. And this is a copy of your
4 system map, represents 80,000 miles of pipeline
5 transporting all types of product all across the
6 country. We're the largest pipeline transportation
7 company in North America. And in the state of
8 Georgia, we have 3,000 miles of pipe currently in
9 operation currently transporting product, and we have
10 done that successfully for many years.
11 So transportation, we generally don't own
12 what's in the pipe. We, much like a toll way, we
13 charge a transportation charge for a company to
14 transport products from Point A to Point B, and we're
15 the transportation component. The pipeline that is
16 part of this overall project is our Plantation
17 system, which you can see here, beginning in
18 Louisiana and terminating up in the Washington, D.C.
19 area. It's carrying gasoline, diesel and jet fuel
20 servicing all of the states it passes through and
21 airports, military bases, and now to gas stations
22 where you fill up your car. That's what this
23 pipeline system currently does and has done it since
24 the 1940s.
25 So this is -- this Plantation system is a
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1 major, major energy driver and infrastructure driver

2 and economic driver for the entire southeastern
3 United States. So our proposal that we're talking
4 about now is an extension of our Plantation system.
5 You can see here in black, not here in red, what
6 we're proposing is to extend this system, to add on
7 to this system in Belton, South Carolina, coming down
8 to Jacksonville, Florida, also here in the Savannah
9 area with additional product and additional resource
10 for the area.
11 So a little closer look at our system
12 currently as it exists in Georgia, it is one of the
13 states where we have a large collection of various
14 assets, about 3,000 miles of pipe, 350 employees. We
15 have a headquarters in Alpharetta and a lot of
16 activity from the natural gas and other businesses
17 here in the state. Point being, what we're proposing
18 to do is something we have done with our pipeline
19 systems in various ways in Georgia for many, many
20 years. Also, the project will be part of Florida,
21 the Jacksonville area, and part of South Carolina as
22 well.
23 I'll start briefly on the project and Brian
24 will join. So the overall project is about a
25 billion-dollar project. 360 miles of pipe, as I
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1 said, from Belton, South Carolina, terminating in

2 Jacksonville, Florida. And the way our projects work
3 is we've been looking at a project like this for many
4 years, and we need to meet two thresholds before we
5 start the formal approval and regulatory process
6 which is really what we've just started now. In
7 fact, this is the second meeting we've had on the
8 project. We were in Savannah last night, and we have
9 three more of these next week, and likely we'll be
10 doing others to start talking about the project. But
11 the actual development of it and the planning for it
12 has been really years in the making. So we need to
13 know for certain that there is an interest in the
14 project from a commercial standpoint.
15 I talked about we're a transport. So in
16 order to invest a billion dollars, which is our money
17 invested in this project, we need to know that
18 there's a need for it. How do we know there's a need
19 for it? Well, we ask our shippers, those who are
20 going to put the actual product in the line or pay
21 for the product to be transported in the line, need
22 it. And they show that need by signing up for
23 long-term agreements to ship.
24 So before we've even started this
25 regulatory process, we have shippers signed up to
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1 ship product on Day 1 when this pipeline is in

2 service. So there's the first piece, the commercial
3 piece. We have to know -- it's not if you build it,
4 will they come. It's make sure that there's enough
5 interest in your pipeline to support it financially
6 when it's built. That's the first piece.
7 And the second piece is the regulatory
8 piece, which is, is there a project that could be
9 designed that can meet and exceed the regulatory
10 standards of the states that you're passing through?
11 So we've got several state agencies that are part of
12 this regulatory process and several federal agencies
13 that we'll talk about in just a minute. Can you
14 design a project that can meet those standards and
15 actually be permitted? So it has to be commercially
16 viable and permitable, and then we make the decision
17 to move forward on projects.
18 So while this is new from a public
19 perspective, we've spent a lot of time and our
20 engineers and our environmental analysts and others,
21 designing a project that can meet and exceed those
22 standards so once we announce the project, we believe
23 we have.
24 Now, the purpose of these meetings like
25 this is to help make our project better, to learn
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1 more, to begin a survey process so we can make our

2 project ultimately better. But we believe that we
3 have designed a project that meets those basic
4 criteria. I'll talk about the schedule and then -5 okay. I'll talk about the specifics of our project.
6 So as you can see, we're right in the first
7 part of the project with our outreach and initial
8 introductions of the project to the public.
9 Landowners have received communications, potential
10 landowners have received communications from the
11 company. Those discussions are just beginning.
12 We'll continue refining our proposed route as we move
13 forward towards to the permitting process.
14 Potentially construction starting in '16 and in
15 service in 2017. '17 in service, meaning the product
16 would be the gasoline, diesel would be flowing on the
17 pipeline.
18 So with that, Brian, who is also one of our
19 top engineers as well as our project director, will
20 talk about the specifics of the project.
21 MR. WILLIAMS: All right. Alan mentioned
22 that one of the first things we have to do before
23 moving ahead on a project is satisfy the permitting
24 requirements and the commercial needs. And the
25 pipeline is already -- already has subscriptions for
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1 interested customers and commitments from those

2 customers that would support it economically, so
3 we've met that hurdle internally in order.
4 And the design of the pipeline is to
5 accommodate up to 167,000 barrels a day through this
6 system. The pipe that we're talking about installing
7 through Georgia would be 16 inches in diameter,
8 single pipe, steel pipe, and it's buried through the
9 entirety of the route. Let's see what else we have,
10 here.
11 There will be additional facilities along
12 the way where the Palmetto line takes off from
13 Plantation pipeline in Belton, South Carolina. There
14 will be a tank farm and a pump station built, the
15 origin point pump station. And then about every
16 90 miles or so, along the route, it will be another
17 pump station built. And this will be an aboveground
18 pump station. And, typically, those are on a site
19 that's somewhere around 2 to maybe 5 acres, and
20 those -- typically, the pipeline company would
21 purchase those and own those in fee rather than
22 negotiate an easement with the property owner. So
23 that would be something that's -- would develop once
24 the route is finalized and once all of our hydraulic
25 analysis is completed. We're still working through
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1 some of those details and haven't sited those

2 midpoint pump stations quite yet.
3 All right. What else have we covered
4 there?
5 MR. FORE: It's underground.
6 MR. WILLIAMS: It's underground. We've got
7 that. Sorry. Last night, I forgot to tell people it
8 was underground. All right.
9 The route we're looking at from Belton to
10 north Augusta, South Carolina, where the pipeline
11 will deliver to an existing terminal and community
12 there and will connect to two existing terminals.
13 And then south of Augusta, the pipeline will cross
14 the Savannah River and then parallel, come west of
15 Savannah in this area near I-95 is where we would
16 intend to build a new terminal to service customers
17 who are interested in the Savannah market here. And
18 this would be another place where the company has
19 identified a parcel of property that's available and
20 would buy that property and build this tank farm and
21 truck loading terminal. And, of course, the
22 customers, at that point, would have trucking
23 companies to pick up the gasoline and diesel and such
24 and take it to the retail outlets.
25 And then from Savannah, we work our way on
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1 south and come into the Jacksonville area. And at

2 that point, we'd be going into existing terminals
3 also in Jacksonville. So there's only one new built
4 terminal where trucks are loaded and that is in the
5 Savannah market, outside of Savannah. I'm sorry.
6 MR. FORE: So the routing, too, that you
7 can see, obviously, that the -- it's not a straight
8 line from Belton down to Jacksonville. And by
9 design, we're looking at what potentially could be
10 the least impactful round, not that there won't be
11 impacts; but a lot of this line, over 80 percent, is
12 collocated.
13 And what that means is adjacent to existing
14 infrastructure. So maybe it's a power line or an
15 underground pipeline, something that's already there,
16 there's already a previous infrastructure development
17 in an area. And we are trying to put our line
18 adjacent to that to provide less impacts to the
19 particular area. Does that mean that's perfect or
20 that that will be our final configuration, no. It
21 means that that's what, from what our initial data
22 and our initial review, which we spent a lot of time
23 doing it, has identified as our preferred route. And
24 I'm sure there's some landowners here tonight, but in
25 consultation with individual landowners, resource
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1 agencies, conservation groups and others, we'll

2 further refine this and we may find in areas where we
3 believe that a colocation is the best route. There
4 may be an alternative that is better.
5 So we're going to continue to make
6 adjustments. But to give you a perspective from the
7 overall picture, colocation from a regulatory
8 perspective is the preferred method. So we're going
9 through this process real quick into the regulatory
10 side having extensive consultations and have already
11 started those with these agencies and others, the
12 Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Fish and Wildlife
13 Service, the State of Georgia DNR and the other
14 applicable regulatory agencies. We're going to need
15 to secure a number of permits from all of these
16 agencies. And part of that permitting process is to
17 talk about our routes, where we're going and how we
18 are constructing a particular area. So that
19 discussion and dialogue is just getting started.
20 So while, again, what we are proposing
21 today is what we believe to be a good route that
22 meets the commercial needs, getting our product to
23 the customers to serve the public and the permitting
24 need, which is that it can be permitted, that these
25 agencies can approve based upon the standards that
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1 they have, we welcome input through the process to

2 help make it better.
3 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. And the route we're
4 proposing here in Liberty County, you can see that
5 we've skirted around the west side of Savannah. This
6 is on, again, existing utility quarters through this
7 area and following power line quarters and the
8 Cypress pipeline.
9 One thing that -- one thing that we do have
10 available, and we'll jump back here -- one thing we
11 do have available tonight is if folks are interested
12 in a more detailed look at where this might -- where
13 the route is in relationship to your property or
14 areas of concern, we can pull up Google Earth map and
15 take a look at that. And if computers fail us, we'll
16 do it the old-fashioned way and we have aerial
17 photos.
18 MR. FORE: Let's go back here for just a
19 second. So, obviously, breaking down our map into a
20 county level so you can see a more identifiable
21 quarter that we're looking at, let's talk about the
22 land aspect, too, a little bit. And then I'll
23 mention that, and you can talk about the survey
24 process because that's an important part of this
25 dialogue and discussion is the individual landowners.
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1 And what we try to do in this process is

2 we, first of all, transparing, education, information
3 on all critical components to pipeline construction.
4 What are you going to do? How are you going to do
5 it? When are you going to do it? What's it going to
6 look like when you're done? What is your maintenance
7 and operation processes?
8 The good thing is that it won't be us just
9 talking about it in Georgia because we've been doing
10 it for many, many years here in the state operating
11 the pipeline. So it's going to be very similar to
12 what we have currently in the state. But those
13 individual consultations with landowners, the width
14 of the right-of-way, the temporary workspace, we're
15 going to go over some of those pieces as well, the
16 survey process and how we take a closer look at the
17 land to determine the structurability and other
18 issues in that area.
19 So what I want to -- the point I'm making
20 is that this is a consulting process between
21 landowner and the company. The dialogue and the
22 discussion and what we really want to do is learn
23 individually by the uniqueness of property, and no
24 one knows that better than the individual landowners.
25 MR. WILLIAMS: I don't think you need that
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1 anymore.
2 MR. FORE: No, I don't need that anymore.
3 MR. WILLIAMS: Where we are in the process
4 right now is conducting a central line survey for the
5 proposed route that we've identified. And as Alan
6 mentioned, this is a very early step. A number of
7 you may have received letters asking for survey
8 permission across your property, and that is that
9 first step. So we have an engineering survey firm
10 come through and lay out that center line, and in a
11 few weeks, we're going to follow that with some other
12 crews. And these crews will have biologists,
13 wetlands experts, cultural resource because these are
14 some of the aspects we have to consider in routing
15 and these are some of the impacts that could lead to
16 having to reroute or adjust the pipeline,
17 potentially.
18 And as Alan mentioned, there is -- it
19 really is a collaborative discussion with landowners
20 and acquiring easements for pipelines. And at the
21 risk of belaboring the point, one of the things that
22 we did at the outset on this project is try to
23 minimize the impact by collocating our right-of-way
24 along the existing right-of-ways already.
25 MR. FORE: Okay. We talked about the
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1 regulatory process. But, Brian, I think it would be

2 helpful for you to talk a little bit, too, about
3 construction and techniques and some of the things
4 that we do in pipeline construction to try to address
5 some of the concerns that are brought up here.
6 MR. WILLIAMS: Sure. We'll do that, and
7 then once we break up, if anyone has questions about
8 the construction process itself and some of the
9 details, we've got a really nice poster in the back
10 that kind of walks through the various stages of how
11 the pipeline is built.
12 The easements we're seeking are 50-foot
13 wide permanent easements, and there will be some
14 additional construction workspace that's just
15 temporary that we'll be seeking from landowners. And
16 one of the things that we try to do and be very
17 careful about is how we do conduct the construction
18 of the pipeline in moving the topsoil off to the side
19 and preserving the topsoil before trenching in and
20 then covering the pipe and just bringing the topsoil
21 back and spreading it and re-establishing the
22 right-of-way. And the mixtures we use for
23 re-establishing the right-of-way are determined by
24 state and sometimes down in the county level working
25 with the local agencies here to make sure we're not
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1 introducing any non-negative species when we're

2 restoring the right-of-way, some of the high-level
3 type of discussion.
4 As Alan mentioned earlier, we're in the -5 we're still in the finalizing design phase, nailing
6 down the route, and we would anticipate that the
7 project will go to construction in the spring of 2016
8 with operation about mid year of 2017.
9 MR. FORE: As mentioned, construction, so
10 we anticipate a project of this size and scope to
11 have about 1,200 construction jobs. And these are
12 temporary jobs that will be for the purposes of
13 constructing the pipeline, but significant economic
14 employment components to the project during
15 construction. In addition, we expect somewhere
16 around 28 to 30 full-time positions to be associated
17 with the Palmetto pipeline project once it's in
18 service, so about 1,200 during construction, about 28
19 to 30 once we're in service.
20 We also expect to significantly increase
21 the taxes that we're paying in the state. Our
22 estimate for Liberty County taxing bodies is about
23 $450,000 to $500,000 a year in additional tax
24 revenue. That's going to go to the taxing bodies,
25 not to the -- all to the county, but those will be
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1 property taxes based upon the valuation of our pipes.

2 So it's not a one-time thing. Those will be ongoing
3 payments. And right now, we're currently paying a
4 significant amount in Georgia as well, so it will be
5 adding to our tax base in the region.
6 We also work closely with all the various
7 state holders throughout the process, emergency
8 responders, elected officials, and others. We wanted
9 to make sure that folks are educated about what this
10 pipeline is, what it carries, what we're doing. And
11 we want to be good corporate and community partners
12 in the region, so we're working with your local and
13 state officials on that.
14 And we've recently done some things in
15 Savannah with our terminal there, some donations and
16 investments in the community, and we certainly expect
17 to do that here in Liberty County and throughout the
18 routing project.
19 So with that, Andrew, that's the formal
20 presentation. We'll be happy to answer questions.
21 MR. MUTTER: Thank you, Alan. So at this
22 time, again, we're going to open this up to formal
23 comments. We do ask that you just stand right here
24 in front of the projector and let the court reporter
25 see you, be able to hear you clearly, and transcribe
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1 your comments. We do ask that one person speak at a

2 time because anytime there's crossfire, it's a lot
3 harder to make a transcript. So we do ask that you
4 wait patiently and contribute your comments in that
5 way.
6 So with that, we'll start taking questions,
7 if you want to raise your hand. This gentleman here
8 and then this gentleman in the back. Yes, sir?
9 MR. SALTER: My name?
10 MR. MUTTER: Name and where you're from,
11 your address.
12 MR. SALTER: I'm from
Jerry Salter, Jr. I only have one
14 question. You say proposed pipeline. You're talking
15 about of the one existing -16 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. Could you face
17 the audience so everybody else can hear? I'm sorry.
18 The reporter gets the information, and I want
19 everybody to be able to hear.
20 MR. SALTER: You're talking about putting
21 down existing utility right-of-way like power lines
22 or something?
23 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
24 MR. SALTER: Do you know which power lines
25 you're going to cut down in Liberty County?
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1 MR. WILLIAMS: Most of Liberty County is -2 MR. SALTER: One big power line that goes
3 through -4 MR. WILLIAMS: There is a large one. We'll
5 look at the detail. But most of the routes
6 throughout here is on the Cypress pipeline, which is
7 a natural gas pipeline.
8 MR. SALTER: The pump station is on what we
9 call Talmadge Road? Do you know what I'm talking
10 about? Do you go by there?
11 MR. WILLIAMS: Yeah.
12 MR. SALTER: Is that what you're talking
13 about?
14 MR. WILLIAMS: What I would like to do is,
15 this is such a detailed question, I would like to -16 if you could stay for a few minutes after we break
17 up, I would like to zoom that one in on Google Earth
18 and let's make sure we're both talking about -19 MR. SALTER: You're not coming in through
20 the gas lines, just maybe the power line or a gas
21 line, too, maybe.
22 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, we come into Savannah
23 along some power lines owned by Georgia Power, and
24 then we have a stretch that is on -- adjacent to I
25 believe it's the CFX railroad tracks. And then we
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1 get back on power lines, work our way around the

2 airport and work our way onto the Cypress pipeline
3 right-of-way. So let's -- we'll trace that route and
4 find the area of -- the specific spot you're
5 interested in.
6 MR. SALTER: Thank you.
7 MR. MUTTER: The gentleman in the back.
8 MR. STEWART: I need to be looking what,
9 that way?
10 MR. MUTTER: Uh-huh. Well, the court
11 reporter needs to hear you and everybody else need to
12 hear you.
13 MR. STEWART: Okay. Joseph E. Stewart,
14
I have a couple of questions. No. 1, it
15 goes all the way to Jacksonville. Is the United

16 States going to get anything out of the pipeline?
17 You know, when it leaves, does it go to a boat and
18 then it goes somewhere else?
19 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, in Jacksonville -20 MR. STEWART: Yeah, we have customers who
21 are interested in connecting the pipeline to their
22 existing terminals in the Jacksonville area right off
23 the, what is that, St. John's. And what I would
24 anticipate is that they will probably actually be
25 reducing some of the marine shipments that come in
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1 now. There's no -- Kinder Morgan certainly has no

2 plans to facilitate export.
3 MR. STEWART: I have a -- one other -- I
4 have a couple of questions. 28 full-time jobs, where
5 will they will located?
6 MR. WILLIAMS: That's a great question.
7 Thank you. Most of those jobs will be in Georgia.
8 And I forgot the exact count, we have -9 MR. STEWART: But where?
10 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, let me walk through
11 it. I'm sorry. I'm a little slow. The pipeline
12 will be operated out of an existing control center in
13 Alpharetta, Georgia, north of Atlanta. There will be
14 five pipeline controller positions filled there, and
15 there will be a scheduling person backing them up and
16 helping them sequence the scheduling plan for all
17 those movements and covering those shift jobs. There
18 will be some other support people in Atlanta. That's
19 another two or maybe three jobs.
20 And then the rest of them are field jobs,
21 most of which are in Georgia. There will only be a
22 few adds, and the number is maybe two or three, in
23 Belton; and the rest of the jobs will be in Georgia
24 with one possibly in the Jacksonville area.
25 And where I would anticipate is that we
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1 will wind up at this terminal we're talking about

2 building for truck loading, that will have about four
3 people. That terminal we're looking is a little bit
4 south of Richmond Hill area. And then somewhere,
5 probably a little bit north of that, wherever we wind
6 up needing to put that pump station, there will also
7 be a maintenance facility there.
8 And so there will be people with crafts,
9 skilled crafts, like we'll need at least one
10 mechanical-type technician, an electrical person and
11 one, and possibly two, what we call right-of-way
12 specialists. They're the guys that are always out
13 driving up and down and checking on the right-of-way.
14 MR. STEWART: Okay. They're permanent
15 positions -16 MR. WILLIAMS: So most of them are -17 MR. STEWART: Permanent.
18 MR. WILLIAMS: -- right here. Those are
19 permanent.
20 MR. STEWART: Okay. Thank you.
21 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
22 MR. MUTTER: Any further comments?
23 MR. MILMINE: I do have a -- my name is
24 Charlie Milmine, and I'm actually a resident of
25 Savannah, but too many people at your meeting last
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1 night. I couldn't get in.

2 You make -- well, first of all, the process
3 confuses me because in most cases like this one when
4 the DOT is involved, we generally speak directly to
5 the DOT. Are there DOT people here? I understand
6 they are also hosting this, right?
7 MR. MUTTER: Yes, sir.
8 MR. MILMINE: Are you here in an official
9 capacity?
10 MR. BOLDEN: I'm here just to watch. The
11 DOT is not involved other than to check to make sure
12 they follow the procedure. It's O.C.G.A. 22-3.
13 MR. MILMINE: Okay. The reason I'm asking
14 that is that we're trusting you to make sure that our
15 words get there without being filtered, right?
16 MR. BOLDEN: Absolutely.
17 MR. MILMINE: One of the things that you
18 showed or does show on your maps is the additional
19 pipeline that goes up north of your main pipeline
20 that goes up to Washington, and it's in dotted lines.
21 And I assume that means it doesn't exist yet, right?
22 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. I'm confused on
23 that one.
24 MR. MILMINE: Okay. Palmetto is going to
25 tie into your track going up -- there it is right
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1 there, that dotted line.

2 MR. WILLIAMS: Right. The dotted line -3 I'm sorry. I'll jump on this one. The dotted line
4 is to designate that these portion -- this portion of
5 the existing Plantation system -- and, actually,
6 there's another line that comes up through here -7 will have an extensive amount of work done on it to
8 increase its capacity to accommodate this pipeline.
9 Plantation already has some excess
10 capacity. And there will be some construction work,
11 mostly in existing pump stations, to add additional
12 pumps or increase the size of those pumps.
13 MR. MILMINE: And that's not considered
14 part of this process, or is it Palmetto down here?
15 MR. WILLIAMS: It's not considered part of
16 this part, no, sir. That's a separate project that
17 is undertaken by the Plantation pipeline.
18 MR. MILMINE: All right. When you had your
19 solicitation to the various companies and you
20 established a need for this, does this need replace
21 trucks and railcars, or is it in addition to -- is it
22 an additional capacity that's needed? For instance,
23 if you're replacing trucks and cattle cars -- I mean,
24 oil cars, my estimate is that 160,000 barrels a day
25 is about five railcars.
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1 I know very little about it. I get this

2 kind of stuff off the Internet. If we're talking
3 about trucks, your economics basically says, in my
4 base, 167,000, you're going be replacing about
5 200 trucks. Now, is this in your economic
6 consideration?
7 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. Let me kind of get a
8 few little pieces of that. Somebody with a
9 calculator can help us out on the math, somebody that
10 is really fast. But a tanker truck typically is
11 sized to hold up to about 200 barrels. And 175 is a
12 good number for what they normally carry. A railroad
13 car typically is sized to hold 700 barrels, so I
14 think the math is just a little bit off there.
15 Now, it's really hard for us, a pipeline
16 company, to speak to what would be displaced from
17 rail and current truck service. Right now, the
18 Jacksonville and Savannah communities are served by
19 vessels.
20 MR. MILMINE: By what?
21 MR. WILLIAMS: By vessels, oceangoing
22 barges and tankers bring in all of your petroleum
23 product today -- well, essentially all of them.
24 There are some other things that come in. And the
25 ethanol that we have blended in our gasoline now is
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1 mostly shipped by rail, and that's nationwide with

2 two exceptions -- well, one exception right now, and
3 that is the central Florida pipeline that runs from
4 Tampa to Orlando actually moves ethanol from the port
5 of Tampa to the Orlando community, which does take
6 tankers off the road.
7 And the Palmetto will also be moving enough
8 ethanol on it to remove those tankers. The ethanol
9 will arrive by rail at Belton but then will be
10 distributed along this route by pipeline.
11 MR. MILMINE: So we're not impacting trucks
12 or railcars particularly, but we are impacting ships?
13 MR. WILLIAMS: Again, it's very hard for us
14 from a pipeline company perspective to say what that
15 impact will be. We don't own the material that's
16 being barged in or shipped by pipeline. You know, I
17 mean, someone could make an assumption that it's a
18 one-for-one offset.
19 MR. MILMINE: But don't you receive this
20 information when you are asked -- soliciting
21 business? I mean, don't they tell you what you're
22 going to be doing?
23 MR. WILLIAMS: Alan mentioned that we
24 already have customers committed in a sufficient -25 they've committed to a sufficient number of barrels
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1 and sufficient volumes to make the project

2 economically viable. And we are prevented by the
3 FERC, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, that
4 approves our terrace, they have a safeguard in
5 shipper information -6 LADY AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm sorry, but
7 that's not true. I spoke to our legal counsel, and
8 they agreed on the legal setup, and that is
9 absolutely not true. They do protect you, but they
10 do not prevent you.
11 MR. WILLIAMS: Madam, I cannot tell you
12 what shipper has what volumes at any given point.
13 I'm sorry.
14 LADY AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm not asking you
15 to, but it is not permitted to the -16 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, we may be mixing
17 words. And, I'm sorry, did we address -- it's very
18 hard for me to say exactly how much volume is being
19 displaced off of the water, but you can probably
20 assume that it's close to a one-for-one.
21 MR. MILMINE: Well, you mentioned earlier
22 that the purpose of this meeting is to learn more.
23 I'm trying to learn more.
24 MR. WILLIAMS: Certainly.
25 MR. MILMINE: And make a better program.
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1 I'm not sure I'll be able to make a better program

2 for you.
3 You mention pump stations about every 90
4 miles. These, I assume, your hydraulic analysis will
5 elevate those above flood plains and things like
6 that.
8 MR. MILMINE: All right. I question why
9 the route. As it crosses the Savannah River, it
10 seems to stick very closely to the river. Is there
11 any way we can get it away from the river a little
12 bit?
13 MR. WILLIAMS: This is part of what we were
14 talking about. It's part of the survey process and
15 finalizing the route. We will be considering those
16 things. It's following an existing Georgia
17 pipeline -- it's a Georgia Power line border through
18 this area, and there probably will be places where we
19 wind up adjusting the route. But at this point, I
20 just can't say exactly where.
21 MR. MILMINE: But I need to point out the
22 obvious that the impact of a power line is quite a
23 bit different than a pipeline. I mean, a power line
24 is above ground and it's on. And your lines are
25 underground. So I'm not sure that sticking with
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1 power lines answers your question.

2 But you -- well, let me go one step
3 further. In one of your displays, you showed the
4 vast array of Kinder Morgan pipelines across the
5 country and you did have one showing all the
6 pipelines in Georgia. Now, how much of colocation is
7 going in Georgia particularly? How much of the
8 colocation is right along existing pipelines? There
9 seem to be some in the southern part of Georgia.
10 MR. WILLIAMS: Most of this route from
11 Savannah to Jacksonville is alongside an existing
12 Kinder Morgan pipeline called the Cypress pipeline.
13 It moves natural gas.
14 MR. MILMINE: Okay. I think that's an
15 important piece of information, at least to me,
16 because it means that it's already there, adding
17 another one in there, hey, we know how to do it,
18 okay, we can do that. I mean, your job I think
19 explaining is there's already one there. Maybe you
20 don't want us to know that. But I think that's
21 important.
22 When you talked about landowners, you
23 talked about a 50-foot wide easement and, yet, I've
24 been reading in the paper and elsewhere it's
25 100 feet. What's going on here?
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1 MR. WILLIAMS: Kinder Morgan is seeking

2 50 foot. I cannot -- I can't assume to speak what
3 other numbers people may have seen. But a 50-foot
4 permanent easement is what we're seeking and then
5 with additional construction workspace that's just
6 temporary for the duration of the construction would
7 be up to an additional 75 feet, for a total of 125,
8 but only the 50 is permanent easement.
9 MR. MILMINE: If you collocate against the
10 Cypress line, does that mean an additional 50 feet or
11 is the right-of-way already established and you go
12 into the existing right-of-way?
13 MR. WILLIAMS: We're anticipating an
14 additional 50 feet.
15 MR. MILMINE: Okay. The 90-day process has
16 begun. So mid-May, the DOT will make their decision;
17 is that correct?
18 MR. WILLIAMS: What does our math work out
19 to?
20 MR. MUTTER: Sir, the DOT has the ability
21 to review all comments submitted and so forth and
22 make a determination within the 90-day period. The
23 regulations require that they wait until the end of
24 the 90 days. But it will be within a reasonable time
25 after the conclusion of hearings and comment periods.
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1 MR. MILMINE: And that gives you about a

2 year before you start actual work, right?
3 MR. WILLIAMS: We would be looking at
4 starting construction in spring of 2016.
5 MR. MILMINE: Right. The destination
6 points that I've been reading about, seems to me,
7 your major tank farm is going to be in Richmond Hill;
8 is that correct?
9 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, a little south of
10 Richmond Hill.
11 MR. MILMINE: Okay. And that's going to
12 serve the Savannah area?
14 MR. MILMINE: How do you cross rivers?
15 MR. WILLIAMS: That's a good question. And
16 the approach we normally use now is called horizontal
17 directional drilling, and I don't know if anybody is
18 familiar with that.
19 MR. MILMINE: Tracking uses that.
20 MR. WILLIAMS: Pardon?
21 MR. MILMINE: Tracking uses that.
22 MR. WILLIAMS: Not exactly.
23 MR. MILMINE: I got you.
24 MR. WILLIAMS: This is a process where a
25 drill rig is set up at an angle, and the pipe is
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1 actually bored deeply underneath the river in a

2 curved pattern so we can offset from the river and
3 not disturb riverbanks or the riverbed itself.
4 MR. MILMINE: What happens if you have a
5 pipe leak? What do you do?
6 MR. WILLIAMS: If we have a pipe leak? We
7 have people that respond to that. They clean it up
8 and remediate it.
9 MR. MILMINE: Well, I assume you shut it
10 down, too?
11 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. That is the first
12 step.
13 MR. MILMINE: Right. The other thing is
14 you mentioned that one of the values of this to us is
15 that during hurricanes, we can expect some delivery
16 in fuel. I'm wondering why you wouldn't shut it down
17 during a hurricane, just be sensible about it? Are
18 you going to keep it open during hurricanes?
19 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm not sure I understand
20 your question, sir.
21 MR. MILMINE: Well, in some of your
22 literature off your web page and so on, you say that
23 one of the values to us is that during hurricanes and
24 inclement weather, we can still receive fuel. And
25 during a hurricane, I just would say if I were you, I
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1 would shut it down until the thing's over.

2 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. I believe where that
3 statement is aimed at is we know that most of the
4 petroleum products consumed all up and down the
5 eastern seaboard are produced in a few areas, the
6 Houston Bay town area and the areas along Baton Rouge
7 and Pascagoula, Mississippi. So it's all waterborne
8 vessels that leave those areas, go around Florida and
9 come up to serve the east coast.
10 And that's where that comment comes from,
11 that statement. It's about the disruption that
12 happens when we have either an Atlantic hurricane or
13 a gulf hurricane. And so pipelines don't shut down
14 for hurricanes, normally. We did with -- what was
15 the big one that came into New Orleans?
16 MR. MUTTER: Katrina.
17 MR. WILLIAMS: That took out everybody's
18 electricity. And without electricity, you can't run
19 pipes.
20 MR. MILMINE: You make mention of in one
21 year, we're going to have 1,200 additional jobs.
22 really can't believe that the local workforce is

23 going to get involved in this. Aren't you bringing
24 in people?
25 MR. WILLIAMS: There will be a number of
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1 local jobs and service providers that get engaged in

2 a pipeline-type project. There are certain
3 specialized skills that probably are not here
4 locally, like cross-country pipeline construction
5 contractors. And those folks typically travel all
6 over the U.S. building pipelines and bring certain
7 core people with them, you know, the superintendent
8 and the foremen and some of the skill trades. But
9 they also need a lot of local laborers to help with
10 the construction process.
11 There's service companies that will be
12 providing services and materials to these
13 contractors. There -- a lot of these people will
14 need hotel space. They'll be spending money in the
15 local economy as the construction moves along.
16 MR. MILMINE: You make a mention of the
17 taxes that you folks will be paying, and you said
18 today that the taxes would be property taxes for the
19 pipeline. That's not my understanding. My
20 understanding is that through eminent domain, you
21 take a swipe out of my property and that I pay the
22 taxes on all of that.
23 MR. FORE: The taxes that we're paying are
24 based upon the value of the pipe, valuation of the
25 pipe, ad valorem on the pipe. So what the pipe is
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1 valued at, assessed at, that's what our taxes will be

2 paid on, the asset itself, not the property.
3 MR. MILMINE: Property taxes are based on
4 market value, assessed on market value. And I can't
5 believe that having a right-of-way through my
6 property is going to increase the value of my
7 property. So I assume that when you buy this
8 right-of-way, you're compensating for the loss of
9 value on my property; is that correct?
10 MR. WILLIAMS: That usually figures into
11 the negotiation between the right-of-way agents and
12 the property owner. Yes.
13 MR. MILMINE: Okay, in Savannah,
14 apparently, you said that about $301,000 of taxes
15 would be revenue, would be given to them. And I
16 assume that's because of the value of your pipe?
17 MR. FORE: Right.
18 MR. MILMINE: And the value of the pumping
19 station and so on. Okay. I don't want to take any
20 more time, thank you.
21 MR. MUTTER: Thank you. Does anyone else
22 have comments?
23 MR. REGISTER: Yes, sir. My name is Sean
24 Register,
. My
25 comments will be a little different tonight. I tried
1 to talk last night, and the crowd there was much

2 larger, and I never got to speak.
3 I know several of you in this room. I'm in
4 the logistics business, been all my life for
5 35 years. I live in
. And I've carried
6 stuff in ships, trucks, railroad cars, charted

7 airplanes. But the most safest way to transport a
8 product is in a pipeline. It seems to be less prone
9 to any accidents. If you look at what's going on
10 recently, you see railcars, derailments, you hear of
11 truck accidents, you hear -- very rarely if you ever
12 hear of an accident on a pipeline.
13 I do not work for Kinder Morgan. Let me
14 first say that. I had never met these gentlemen
15 until last night. And, basically, I'm a little
16 different from being from this area. But has anybody
17 in this room ever done business with Kinder Morgan?
18 I'm the only guy that's going raise my hand. I've
19 done business with Kinder Morgan for 12 years, not on
20 the pipeline side, but on their marine terminals.
21 And all I will say is being a resident from
22 the area, they do the first-class job when it comes
23 to the environment and being very up on everything,
24 the latest technology. When I put ships into their
25 terminal in Fernandina, they got on to me because
1 certain things maybe the Coast Guard missed, but they

2 brought it up to my attention. And I corrected
3 those.
4 So we're dealing with a first-class company
5 here. I've never dealt with the pipeline side of it.
6 So I'll be upfront with that, but I have dealt with
7 them as a corporation. And they are a very stand-up,
8 first-class company. So for what it's worth, I think
9 if there were other ones, there might be; but knowing
10 their reputation, they do what they say they're going
11 to do, so.
12 MR. MUTTER: Thank you. All right. Any
13 further public comments? Yes. We'll go with the
14 lady in the back and the gentleman afterwards.
15 MS. HILBURN: Jen Hilburn, Altamaha River
16 Keeper. I live in
and work in the
17 Altamaha Watershed, so that's Atlanta and Athens all

18 the way down here. I just have a couple of
19 logistical questions. So can you confirm for me,
20 please, when the written comments are due and to whom
21 they're due to?
22 MR. MUTTER: The written comments can be
23 submitted during the 90-day period. Again, the
24 regulations do not specify when the DOT has to rule
25 before the end of the 90-day period. It has to rule
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1 by the end of the 90-day period, but it can rule any

2 time during that 90-day period. So written comments
3 are accepted during that time.
4 And, you know, we would encourage
5 submission of those written comments promptly. So I
6 can't speak to you exactly when the Georgia DOT would
7 decide to rule or feel like it received enough
8 written comments to make a ruling, but that's the way
9 that the statute is set up.
10 MS. HILBURN: Sir, would you be able to
11 comment on that, please?
12 MR. BOLDEN: What he stated is exactly
13 right. And I would like to clarify that one of the
14 gentlemen said something about that they have to
15 trust them that what they're giving us is correct.
16 She has my card and anything that she sends to them,
17 she's sending directly to me; and, therefore, I'm
18 getting the raw data just as they get it. So there
19 should be no issue about -- or question if they're
20 sending us the correct stuff.
21 MS. HILBURN: Could you, then, tell me when
22 the 90-day period actually started?
23 MR. MUTTER: The 90-day period began, I
24 believe -25 MR. BOLDEN: February the 13th.
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1 MR. MUTTER: February the 13th.

2 MS. HILBURN: February the 13th. All
3 right. So that's what we we're working with. Thank
4 you very much. And do we know exactly where the
5 pipeline will be crossing water bodies at this point?
6 I see that you have a little bit more detailed maps,
7 and I thank you for that. Do we have exact crossing
8 locations at this point?
9 MR. WILLIAMS: We have crossing locations
10 preliminarily identified on this route. Again, this
11 is our preliminary route. There may be some
12 adjustments. Okay?
13 MS. HILBURN: Okay.
14 MS. WILLIAMS: I would be happy to go
15 through those with you, if you wish.
16 MS. HILBURN: I absolutely do, and I thank
17 you for that. Can you tell me how many storage
18 tanks, pump stations and terminals there will be from
19 Savannah to Jacksonville at this time?
20 MR. WILLIAMS: There will be one breakout
21 terminal, the truck terminal in the Richmond Hill
22 area, and anticipate a pump station somewhere in the
23 Savannah area and another one about midway between
24 Savannah and Jacksonville.
25 MS. HILBURN: You don't have exact
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1 locations at this time?

2 MR. WILLIAMS: As I mentioned, we are still
3 refining the pipeline hydraulics. That's what drives
4 location.
5 MS. HILBURN: And my final questions are
6 could you tell me where and when your last spill
7 occurred?
8 MR. FORE: No, not off the top of my head,
9 no.
10 MS. HILBURN: Okay. Thank you.
11 MR. MUTTER: Thank you. And the gentleman
12 in the back.
13 MR. ZACK: I'm Marcus Zack. I live here in
14 Midway, Georgia, or over there in Midway, Georgia, I
15 guess. We're in Hinesville right now.
16 My question is similar to that last one.
17 was going to ask what your history is with spills and

18 that sort of thing. It sounds like you guys have
19 been with the company a long time. Maybe it's been a
20 while. I'd also like to know the safety mechanisms
21 that are on the pipes. Are there leak detection
22 controls, actuated valves, that sort of thing?
23 What's your response time to a leak?
24 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay.
25 MR. ZACK: Obviously, we're proud of our
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1 environmental resources here and we want to take care

2 of them. I support the project. I support the
3 pipeline, but I think it would be good for us know
4 what you guys have in place to prevent spills and
5 that sort of thing.
6 MR. FORE: Before you go into the specifics
7 of that, let me make two points about the incidents
8 on pipelines. One is we published on our website our
9 overall safety record. So anyone who is -- we are
10 the only few energy companies that does that,
11 actually publishes our own safety record on our
12 website. You can also go to the PHMSA website,
13 Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety
14 Administration, and they also have public documents
15 on reportable incidents related to pipelines.
16 So if you want to know exactly what's
17 happening, you can go to the government, federal
18 website that has oversight of pipeline safety and
19 also our own website has specific information.
20 MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a question -21 MR. WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. I'm sorry.
22 May we answer this one first?
23 MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah. Okay. Go
24 ahead.
25 MR. MUTTER: Regarding safety measures for
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1 pipelines, you mentioned the pipeline leak detection.

2 And that is a tool that we use. I mentioned that the
3 pipeline will be controlled out of a control center
4 in Alpharetta, Georgia. And we have various types of
5 pressure and flow rates sensors along the pipeline.
6 And the data from those sensors goes into
7 what's called computational pipeline model, a
8 computer model, and it alarms if any kind of leak is
9 detected, or it alarms if a leak is detected. So
10 that's one tool. The other thing that Kinder Morgan
11 has undertaken to do is on the last few projects that
12 we've built, we go ahead and install remote control
13 operators on all of our pipeline block valves rather
14 than manual controllers so that if there is a leak
15 detected, the guys in the control center can close
16 valves down at the time of detection rather than
17 having to wait until someone gets in a maintenance
18 vehicle and drives out to that site.
19 And those are probably a couple of the key
20 things. As far as response, all of our employees,
21 all of our field employees are trained for the
22 gadgets, regulations, First Response and all of that.
23 Most all of them have been through 25- and 40-hour
24 training and the recurrent eight-hour annual
25 training.
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1 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. Now.

2 MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I noticed that your
3 pipeline affects the Ogeechee and the Altamaha. Does
4 it go under the river or -5 MR. WILLIAMS: Under the river is what
6 we've planned, yes, sir.
7 MR. MUTTER: Yes, sir.
8 MR. LOWDHAM: I'm Phil Lowdham. I'm the
9 commissioner over the Liberty Consolidated Planning
10 Commission. And your preliminary maps stand out to
11 have some kind of conflict with some of our roadway
12 infrastructure that we're planning on in the future.
13 I would like to discuss with y'all about, as you
14 tighten this program up, to at least -- Jeff, our
15 executive director is here -- get with him and make
16 sure that what we're planning to do 20 and 30 years
17 out from now is not conflicting with what you want to
18 do in 18 months.
19 MR. WILLIAMS: I think that's a wonderful
20 idea.
21 MR. LOWDHAM: Thank you.
22 MR. WILLIAMS: We welcome following up with
23 you both. And that goes for other locations along
24 the route.
25 MR. RICHARDSON: I do have a follow up to
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1 Phil's question. I am Jeff Richardson, the director

2 of the Liberty Consolidated Planning Commission. And
3 I have two questions. One, are you going to have a
4 rail siding at your new truck terminal in Richmond
5 Hill?
6 MR. WILLIAMS: No, we do not anticipate.
7 MR. RICHARDSON: And the second question
8 is, I see your line down in Long County and McIntosh
9 County comes very close to the Navy's town and
10 bombing range. Has that been factored into your
11 location?
12 MR. WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. They're aware that
13 the Navy is working on expanding that range. And
14 right now, that range goes right up to the edge of
15 the Cypress pipeline, which is right next to the
16 power line, but we -- the Navy's been good to work
17 with so far because we've actually obtained their
18 preliminary plans for expansion, and we also see
19 where the target areas -- where they're talking
20 about, yes.
21 MR. MUTTER: Are there any further
22 comments? Yes, sir. Come forward or you can just
23 stand up. That's great.
24 MR. FRAZIER: I'm Odum Frazier, and I'm
25 originally from Hinesville. I understand that there
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1 are right-of-way agents that will -- I suppose

2 they'll be in touch with the property owners to
3 negotiate the -- and I use this term lightly -- the
4 sale of the property. Is it the sale of the property
5 or sale of the easement or the lease of an easement,
6 or what is the term here?
7 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. It is the purchase of
8 an easement is how we would term that.
9 MR. FRAZIER: Okay. And am I right, the
10 right-of-way agents will be in touch?
11 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, the right-of-way agents
12 will be in touch. That's correct.
13 MR. FRAZIER: Thank you.
14 MR. MUTTER: Yes, sir. That is all the
15 comments for tonight -- oh, yes, sir.
16 MR. FRAZIER: Excuse me. I just have one
17 or two. My name is Blake Frazier. I'm a part
18 landowners with my siblings, and y'all don't have a
19 way y'all could blow up Liberty County and let us
20 look at Liberty County where y'all are going to go
21 like a Google map or a -22 MR. WILLIAMS: Yeah, we do.
23 MR. FRAZIER: -- PIS Libertycounty.org or
24 something to show us which side of the power line
25 y'all are -- if y'all are going adjacent to, Cypress
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1 Gas or some existing or if you're going to go to the

2 other side of the power line. I'm concerned about
3 which side of the power line you're going on, and I'm
4 also -- when we talk about these figures and we talk
5 about the width of the right-of-way, we talk about
6 50 feet. And then there was maybe another 50 or
7 another 75 feet for construction use. So, in other
8 words, we're talking about a 125 foot where no trees
9 can be to run equipment?
10 MR. WILLIAMS: No, sir. They would
11 probably have to remove trees or things that would be
12 in the way for that construction period. But as soon
13 a construction is over, that additional temporary
14 workspace goes back to the property owners.
15 MR. FRAZIER: But if you need 125-foot
16 right-of-way and there's timber in the right-of-way,
17 the landowner, when you give your estimate or eminent
18 domain, we have the right to get the timber off the
19 existing right-of-way before you guys come through?
20 MR. WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, sir. We're not in
21 the timber business.
22 MR. FRAZIER: But it is going to be
23 125 foot. When we meet your fellows on the ground to
24 show us -25 MR. WILLIAMS: They're going to ask for a
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1 100 -- they're going to ask for a 50-foot permanent

2 easement and up to 75-foot or 75-foot temporary work
3 space. That equals 125. That's the starting point,
4 and we understand there's some places where we may
5 not be able to get 75-foot temporary workspace.
6 MR. FRAZIER: Because I'm familiar with
7 Cypress Gas when they came through. I know what they
8 got of ours.
9 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, we know everybody
10 knows those things.
11 MR. FRAZIER: This will double what Cypress
12 did, if you go 125 feet wide with the clearing
13 levels.
14 MR. WILLIAMS: Sure.
15 MR. FRAZIER: Thank you.
16 MR. MUTTER: Thank you. Okay. With that,
17 we'll close down the formal comment period. Again,
18 Kinder Morgan is still going to be here a little
19 while afterwards to take individual comments, if you
20 have them. Thank you, again, for coming out.
21 And remember that you can submit comments
22 either with the sign-in sheet or write in to King &
23 Spalding with further comments. These comments are
24 still going to be directly communicated with the
25 Georgia Department of Transportation in their
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1 process. Thank you.

2 (Hearing concluded at 6:12 p.m.)
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 STATE OF GEORGIA:
4 COUNTY OF FULTON:
5
6 I hereby certify that the foregoing
7 proceedings were taken down, as stated in the
8 caption, and reduced to typewriting under my
9 direction, and that the foregoing pages 1 through 51
10 represent a true, complete, and correct transcript of
11 said proceedings.
12 This, the 11th day of March, 2015.
13
14
15 ________________________________
16 Tracy A. Williams, B-2168, RPR
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03/05/2015
TIFFANY ALLEY GLOBAL REPORTING & VIDEO

FIRM CERTIFICATE AND DISCLOSURE
Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video represents that
the foregoing transcript as produced by our Production
Coordinators, Georgia Certified Notaries, is a true,
correct and complete transcript of the colloquies,
questions and answers as submitted by the certified
court reporter in this case. Tiffany Alley Global
further represents that the attached exhibits, if any,
are a true, correct and complete copy as submitted by
the certified reporter, attorneys or witness in this case;
and that the exhibits were handled and produced exclusively
through our Production Coordinators, Georgia Certified
Notaries. Copies of notarized production certificates
related to this proceeding are available upon request to
production@tiffanyalley.com.
Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video is not taking this
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parties upon request.
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In The Matter Of:

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

IN RE: PALMETTO PIPELINE

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 MR. MUTTER: Good evening. Thank you so

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 so that we have a record of who you are and we're

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 formal comment process, and Kinder Morgan is still

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 We transport product. That can be gasoline, diesel,

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 major, major energy driver and infrastructure driver

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 said, from Belton, South Carolina, terminating in

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 ship product on Day 1 when this pipeline is in

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 more, to begin a survey process so we can make our

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 interested customers and commitments from those

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 some of those details and haven't sited those

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 south and come into the Jacksonville area. And at

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 agencies, conservation groups and others, we'll

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 they have, we welcome input through the process to

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 And what we try to do in this process is

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 regulatory process. But, Brian, I think it would be

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 introducing any non-negative species when we're

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

1 property taxes based upon the valuation of our pipes.

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

1 your comments. We do ask that one person speak at a

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline

Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

1 get back on power lines, work our way around the

I have a couple of questions. No. 1, it